mystara-digest Monday, March 9 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 153 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Holy symbols Re: [MYSTARA] - Holy symbols Re: [MYSTARA] - Firearms and Realism Re: [MYSTARA] - Koruk Barbarossa or Rory Barbarossa Re: [MYSTARA] - Firearms and Realism Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D Stat Scale in AD&D [MYSTARA] - (*Way* Off Topic) Some Personal but Exciting News Re: [MYSTARA] - An Adventure Re: [MYSTARA] - (*Way* Off Topic) Some Personal but Exciting News Re: [MYSTARA] - Availability of WotI? [MYSTARA] - Imperial Geopolitical Intelligence Re: [MYSTARA] - Availability of WotI? Re: [MYSTARA] - Koruk Barbarossa or Rory Barbarossa Re: [MYSTARA] - Koruk Barbarossa or Rory Barbarossa [MYSTARA] - Other cultures Re: [MYSTARA] - Other cultures [MYSTARA] - Sorry about that [MYSTARA] - Good page ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 10:07:09 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Holy symbols At 11:01 AM 3/9/98 +0100, you wrote: >What if each temple has its own holy symbol, so that you may learn where a cleric comes from seeing his holy symbol? For example clerics of Ixion from Sundsvall may use a miniature wooden wheel (and set it aflame), while clerics of Ixion from Darokin may have a silver medallion of a flaming wheel. I think this is a great idea! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 10:11:02 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Holy symbols Generally, I run matters that each priest of higher than a given level (variable by patron) must dress in a prescribed fashion at all times, dress including hair, facial adornment, etc. Lower-level priests have a more generic "priest" type of garment that varies by religion but not specifically by patron. (In my D&D, I run that clerics serve "the gods" of their religion as a group until they reach 9th level, at which time they have the option of requesting a specific patron and entering a Druid-paradigm-like optional variant of the basic Cleric.) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 11:00:39 EST From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Firearms and Realism Personal Observation: Gee, never seen Leroy post this often in one day. In a message dated 98-03-08 15:12:42 EST, Leroy writes: >Ah yet another reason why I disdain the use of firearms in Mystara. A hit by a bullet does not go well with D&D HP. -- myself << OK, but what weapon does?>> All are portrayed accurately as long as PCs are low level. A real person could only take a real hit or two before dropping dead. The problems come when PCs rise to 3rd level. <<[attempts at realistic gun stuff snipped]>> "attempts" ? I think I have been insulted :-) << First, I am all for people playing with rules that they and their players enjoy. This is not a condemnation.>> Same here. Heck, my house rules are mixed AD&D and D&D. The important part is that the group has a good game. And like I have stated in the past, I do not play anymore. My focus is with the setting material. Game rules are secondary as most use a variety of rules themselves. <> The difference is that a hit by a firearm is a hit. Sure you could say that the bulet bounces off plate armor or knicks a non vital area. And not all PCs can or choose to wear armor. The graze to an arm or leg can only be justified for so long. And as noted by myself as well as others, early firearms caused horrendous wounds. A shot to the persons leg could kill him just as easily as a shot to the chest cavity. If firearms are used, I think that a means to determine damage should be based upon a percentage of the PCs HP. Instead of shooting holes into them until their HPs wear down. <> That would be where Str bonuses and Mastery come into play to give the high level PCs a proper adversary to match their high HPs. But this is done at the risk of a potential one hit death to low level PCs (henchmen). Or as one of my old gaming friends use to say "fighter fodder". <> No it doesn't. That is as long as a hit is perceived as landed blow to the flesh of a PC. You have to balance things out to account for those PCs with alot of HPs. Several examples have been posted. Myself, I have my own system. << I do use smokepowder firearms in my Mystara games, though I do so sparingly. They are rare items, which helps maintain the sense of discovery when the characters find one, or encounter a person wielding one. For stats I just assigned some dice for damage, made up some times for reloading, and some costs.>> By smokepowder, I take it you mean primarily in the Savage Coast. That is fine because others have such weaponry. There is a balance. And I see that you have improvised in assigning damage. And then there is te SC setting. It is more equipped to handle firearms. The swahbuckling period it is set in attests to that. <> But AD&D differs from D&D. And according to some on this List AD&D is blasphemy. However, I need not restate what Rules I use and my opinion of either. And this is Mystara, a fantasy setting. IMO a firearm takes away from the image of a armoured warrior bracing himself against an attacking dragon. In the RW, guns succeeded because it leveled the playing field between opponents. Gaining skill and experience is part of the fantasy. If I wanted guns, there would be little need of looking to a fantasy setting. BattleTec or WarHammer 2000 would suit the need. But no, I choose a fantasy setting where the imagination can run wild and people can dream about things of legend and lore. IMO firearms both literally and symbolically kill the image of a warrior and spellcaster. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 11:22:41 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Koruk Barbarossa or Rory Barbarossa I am glad you have a friend who studies history, but I stand by my statements. The language of Hule is clearly copied from Turkish. You are correct that Turk can refer either to a member of the larger language family (Turkic) which is spread across large parts of central Asia or more specifically to a citizen of Turkey, which is one country whose language is derived from this group, but this is not what I was arguing. The real Koruk Barbarossa was a Turk from Turkey, which is equivalent to Hule. The Makistani are more complex, because being the equivalent of Asian nomads living near Arabs, we might assume they are Turkish. However, the Ethengarians are based on Mongols, not Turks (they are culturally similar but distinct groups), and the name "Makistani" means it is likely that they are based on one of the central Asian states which have Muslim religion but languages that are either Turkic (Kirghizstan, Tadjikistan, Kazakhstan) or Indo-European (Afghanistan, Pakistan). So they could very well be Turkic, but they are very likely not Turkish. Be careful, I am an amateur linguist and I will mess you up if you're not careful! (said with a smile, don't censor me i'm fragile). peace, m@2 "You're not really in love with yourself - you're just in love with the idea of being in love with yourself" - said to me by one of the two little fellas who hang out on either of my shoulders ... I can't remember which ... On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, JamugaKhan wrote: ><< But >the Mystaran country that is most clearly based on Turkey is Hule, which is a whole nother bag of problems. >> >Don't tell THAT to my friend who studies history. He would really go mad about it. >Turkey comes from Turk, the Asian horse people. In Mystaran terms: Imagine Ethengars living for years and centuries outside the steppes. And that leads us to the Makistani in Ylaruam. >Jamuga Khan >"Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 14:27:24 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Firearms and Realism On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, Alex295 wrote: >The difference is that a hit by a firearm is a hit. Sure you could say that the bulet bounces off plate armor or knicks a non vital area. And not all PCs The difference is that a hit by an arrow is a hit. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:30:09 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D Stat Scale in AD&D << Kaviyd meandered fecklessly... >My main idea was to replace the AD&D stat scale with that used in D&D -- and by a happy coincidence WotI gives the full scale from 1-100. I just wanted to pipe up and say that this is what I do in my heavily modifed version of AD&D, and it works well. I dropped exceptional Strength as well. Leroy Van Camp III >> This AD&D exceptional strength rule was annoying more and more over the last years anyhow. We used the WotI stat scales when we used a Girdle of Giant's Strength. I can't remember right now, but I believe it gives now a strength of 26. Jamuga Khan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 13:32:54 -0800 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: [MYSTARA] - (*Way* Off Topic) Some Personal but Exciting News Hey there, to all the MML'ers! I have some personal News that I just *had* to share with this wonderful group of individuals that I interact with so often: I AM EXPECTING MY FIRST CHILD! The baby is due September 18th, and now that I'm going into my second tri-mester we've (my husband and I) started telling people outside of our immediate family about our happy news. Well, that's my News :-) Now back to your regularly scheduled Mystaraverse messages. Jenni A. M. Merrifield - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield http://www.jamm.com/jenni/home.html - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- strawberry@jamm.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 23:07:40 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - An Adventure At 10.28 05/03/96 +0100, Lorenzo wrote: >1. Any good idea or suggestion to help me creating the atmosphere of those places >(I read only the Net's "Shadow Elves Handbooks") Read the novel "Son of Dawn" in the First Quest series and the upcoming Net-Almanac for AC 1015 where I've written a report about Aengmor. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com DM in City Of The Stars - Mystaran Almanac Assistant Leader of Privateers - Student of Aerospace Enginnering Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 18:45:15 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - (*Way* Off Topic) Some Personal but Exciting News At 01:32 PM 3/9/98 -0800, you wrote: >Hey there, to all the MML'ers! >I AM EXPECTING MY FIRST CHILD! YAY! Are you going to name him Karameikos or her Eriadna? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 05:14:00 +0000 From: Thorfinn Tait Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Availability of WotI? On Sun, 8 Mar 1998 Alan Jones wrote: >In the UK getting hold of ANY Mystara items in just about impossible. The big retailers of Role Playing games in London e.g. Virgin stock just AD&D (which may include a bit of Mystara backstock such as the Glantri and Karameikos boxed sets). The independent retailers (such as the excellent Orc's Nest) are pretty much the same. Yep - up here in Scotland there's nothing at all except in tiny out-of- the-way gaming shops. Except of course Joshuan's Almanac, which for some reason Virgin seems to have an infinite supply of. Typical. As far as I know, if you live in the UK your only chance is online shops, which do stock a lot but often not the particular thing you're looking for. Thorf. ========================================= "All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost." Thorfinn Tait--Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk Unofficial Keeper of the Offical Timeline ========================================= *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 21:36:49 +0000 From: Thorfinn Tait Subject: [MYSTARA] - Imperial Geopolitical Intelligence Remember the tables on the Known World Trail Maps? Among other things they include information on most of the nations of the Known World, in various different categories. For ages I've been meaning to revise them, and I finally got a chance today (in between exam revision, essay writing and Hollow World event- writing :-). So, here is my first revised version of the first "Imperial Geopolitical Intelligence" table. A few things were mistakes in the original (that is they have been contradicted since it was written), so I havecorrected them where I knew the correct version. Other things I don't know the correct data for, so please feel free to correct me, and I'll add it in. The first table is an update of the AC 1000 trail map table, the second is a new version updated for AC 1010 (PWA1). NOTE: If you're having problems viewing the tables (because they are a bit too long for e-mail readers), I can also send you a copy in MS Excel (.xls) format, or just in plain text format. Imperial Geopolitical Intelligence (Table 2) will be along as soon as I get it finished. (It's a lot more work, though, since it involves so many statistical figures.) - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- IMPERIAL GEOPOLITICAL INTELLIGENCE, AC 1000 Nation & Regime, Current Ruler, Attitude, Politics, Laws*, Philosophy Alfheim, Elven Oligarchy**, Council of Clans, Peaceful, Darokin Ally, Moderate, Lawful Alphatia, Magocracy, Empress Eriadna, Warlike, Imperialist, Flexible, Chaotic Atruaghin Clans, Monarchy, King Hutapanca, Varies, Neutral, Weak, Neutral Broken Lands, Tribal, King Thar (Orc), Warlike, Imperialist, None, Chaotic Darokin, Republic***, Merchant Council, Peaceful, Mercantile, Moderate, Lawful Ethengar, Khanate, Moglai Khan, Varies, Neutral, Weak, Chaotic Five Shires, Hin Federation, Council of Clans, Peaceful, Darokin Ally, Moderate, Lawful Glantri, Magocracy****, Wizards Council, Varies, Darokin Ally, Strong, Chaotic Heldannic Territories, Theocracy, Herr Wulf von Klagendorf, Warlike, Imperialist, Weak, Neutral Ierendi, Const. Monarchy, Palfrit/Marianne, Peaceful, Neutral, Weak, Neutral Karameikos, Grand Duchy, Stephan Karameikos III, Peaceful, Thyatis Ally, Moderate, Neutral Minrothad, Plutocracy, Oran Meditor, Peaceful, Mercantile, Strong, Neutral Ostland, Monarchy, Hord Dark-Eye, Warlike, Thyatis Ally, Moderate, Chaotic Rockhome, Dwarven Monarchy, King Everast XV, Peaceful, Thyatis Ally, Strong, Lawful Shadow Elf Territories, Elven Monarchy, King Telemon, Varies, Xenophobic, Strong, Lawful Sind, Archclericy, Chandra Ul Nervi, Peaceful, Neutral, Strong, Lawful Soderfjord, Democracy, Ragnar the Stout, Varies, Vestland Ally, Weak, Chaotic Thyatis, Military Empire, Emperor Thincol, Warlike, Imperialist, Strong, Lawful Vestland, Monarchy, King Gudmundson, Peaceful, Neutral, Moderate, Lawful Wendar, Elven Monarchy, King Gylharen I, Peaceful, Thyatis Ally, Moderate, Lawful Ylaruam, Monarchy, Mohammed Al Kalim, Varies, Xenophobic, Strong, Lawful * Laws: indicates how complex laws are, and how harsh their enforcement is. ** Main representative is King Doriath Erendyl. Elven Council is in power. *** Main representative is Chancellor Corwyn Mauntea. Although technically a Republic, power remains among the wealthy, making this a Plutocracy. **** Main representative is Prince Volospin Aendyr, Chancellor of the Princes. IMPERIAL GEOPOLITICAL INTELLIGENCE, AC 1010 Nation & Regime, Current Ruler, Attitude, Politics, Laws*, Philosophy Aengmor, Elven Monarchial Colony, Princess Tanadaleyo, Varies, Xenophobic, Strong, Lawful Alphatia, Magocracy**, Emperor Zandor, Warlike, Imperialist, Flexible, Chaotic Atruaghin, Dictatorship, Alphatian expatriots, Varies, Neutral, Strong, Lawful Broken Lands, Feudal Monarchy, King Thar (Orc), Warlike, Imperialist, None, Chaotic Darokin, Republic***, Merchant Council, Peaceful, Mercantile, Moderate, Lawful Ethengar, Khanate, Moglai Khan, Varies, Neutral, Weak, Chaotic Five Shires, Hin Federation, Council of Clans, Peaceful, Darokin Ally, Moderate, Lawful Glantri, Magocracy****, Wizards Council, Varies, Darokin Ally, Strong, Chaotic Heldannic Territories, Theocracy, Herr Wulf von Klagendorf, Warlike, Imperialist, Weak, Neutral Ierendi, Constitutional Monarchy, Reston/Tristelia, Peaceful, Neutral, Weak, Neutral Karameikos, Monarchy, King Stephan Karameikos, Peaceful, Darokin Ally, Moderate, Neutral Minrothad, Plutocracy, Oran Meditor, Peaceful, Mercantile, Strong, Neutral Ostland, Monarchy, Queen Yrsa, Warlike, Thyatis Ally, Moderate, Chaotic Rockhome, Dwarven Monarchy, King Everast XV, Peaceful, Xenophobic, Strong, Lawful Shadow Elf Territories, Elven Monarchy, King Telemon, Varies, Xenophobic, Strong, Lawful Sind, Feudal Monarchy, under Hulean control, Chandra Ul Nervi, Peaceful, Neutral, Strong, Lawful Soderfjord, Democracy, Ragnar the Stout, Varies, Vestland Ally, Weak, Chaotic Thyatis, Military Empire, Emperor Thincol, Warlike, Imperialist, Strong, Lawful Vestland, Monarchy, King Gudmundson, Peaceful, Neutral, Moderate, Lawful Wendar, Elven Monarchy, King Gylharen I, Peaceful, Neutral, Moderate, Lawful Ylaruam, Monarchy, Mohammed Al Kalim, Varies, Xenophobic, Strong, Lawful * Laws: indicates how complex laws are, and how harsh their enforcement is. ** After the cataclysmic sinking of mainland Alphatia in AC 1009, the remnants of the Empire are divided. Zandor rules in Aquas, but most other former Alphatian colonies do not accept his rule at this time. *** Main representative is Chancellor Corwyn Mauntea. Although technically a Republic, power remains among the wealthy, making this a Plutocracy. **** Main representative is Prince Volospin Aendyr, Chancellor of the Princes. - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thorf. ========================================= "All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost." Thorfinn Tait--Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk Unofficial Keeper of the Offical Timeline ========================================= *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 20:42:12 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Availability of WotI? Alan Jones wrote: >On Sun, 8 Mar 1998 Alan Jones wrote: >>In the UK getting hold of ANY Mystara items in just about impossible. The big retailers of Role Playing games in London e.g. Virgin stock just AD&D (which may include a bit of Mystara backstock such as the Glantri and Karameikos boxed sets). The independent retailers (such as the excellent Orc's Nest) are pretty much the same. Thorfinn Tait uttered: >Yep - up here in Scotland there's nothing at all except in tiny out-of- the-way gaming shops. Except of course Joshuan's Almanac, which for some reason Virgin seems to have an infinite supply of. Typical. >As far as I know, if you live in the UK your only chance is online shops, which do stock a lot but often not the particular thing you're looking for. Isn't that the truth? In Canada it's just as bad. You'd think that living in the capital city would mean that, in addition to foreign dignitaries and such, you'd be able to come across relics of D&D. Nope. I have to rely on the Dragon's Trove - not bad, but not as good as having a local gaming store that's the motherlode. *sigh* FYI - The local stores here are buried in Planescape and FR, and the occasional K:KoM - UGH! Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 20:48:52 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Koruk Barbarossa or Rory Barbarossa Quoth Matthew Levy the Carnifex Initiate: >I am glad you have a friend who studies history, but I stand by my statements. The language of Hule is clearly copied from Turkish. You are correct that Turk can refer either to a member of the larger language family (Turkic) which is spread across large parts of central Asia or more specifically to a citizen of Turkey, which is one country whose language is derived from this group, but this is not what I was arguing. The real Koruk Barbarossa was a Turk from Turkey, which is equivalent to Hule. The Makistani are more complex, because being the equivalent of Asian nomads living near Arabs, we might assume they are Turkish. However, the Ethengarians are based on Mongols, not Turks (they are culturally similar but distinct groups), and the name "Makistani" means it is likely that they are based on one of the central Asian states which have Muslim religion but languages that are either Turkic (Kirghizstan, Tadjikistan, Kazakhstan) or Indo-European (Afghanistan, Pakistan). I agree here. The Makistani seem decidedly Kazakh to me - I always thought the Turkmen, Uzbeks, Kirghiz, and Tajiks (many nationalities here, Matt, some without states of their own) were more settled. I could be wrong though - never studied them much at uni, I was more interested in the western regions and the Caucasus when I studied the former Soviet Union. Matt resumes: So they could very well be Turkic, but they are very likely not Turkish. Be >careful, I am an amateur linguist and I will mess you up if you're not careful! (said with a smile, don't censor me i'm fragile). And I'm an amateur linguist/ethnologist/historian, and 2nd level bureaucrat/4th level university graduate, so watch out! :-) Hey, I'm multiclassed, cool!! :-) Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 17:51:28 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Koruk Barbarossa or Rory Barbarossa Tomas, Sorry if I came across harshly. I have always enjoyed our discussions of Mystara and I didn't mean to shout you down. I do think it is not *necessary* that Rory Barbarossa be based on Koruk Barbarossa, but I do also understand your reasoning and respect your right to your own opinion. The name "Rory" I remember hearing as associated with the Irish, but I can't give you any specific source (sorry). >I always thought Hule was based on Iran. the picture of Hosadus on X4 looked vaguely like the Ayatollah (who was an important villain for American propaganda at the time). But the culture and language of Hule as later elaborated by Bruce Heard are closer to Turkey than anything else. TSR in general tends to be careless with its RW analogies ... for instance conflating Chinese and Japanese culture, or Iranian, Turkish, and Arabic culture. These are serious mistakes in the real world but for fantasy I am perhaps a bit of a stickler. >Isle of Dawn >In general, the nations along the eastern shore have been kingdoms of the Alphatian Empire, while the regions of the western shore have been provinces of Thyatis. how do you apply this to Caerdwicca? its neither a nation nor a kingdom, and it's on the southern shore. :) peace, m@2 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 20:59:33 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Other cultures Hello All! Has anyone detailled Mystaran cultures relating to the following RW cultures? Georgians Armenians Hungarians Persians Cambodians (hmm, on second thought this was done on Myoshima...) Ethiopians Berbers Basques Moors (maybe these were done in the SC, but I don't think there's a nation of them) Laotians Balts (I'm working on a Mystaran culture based on RW Latvia/Lithuania, actually - timeline's done and info coming to the list soon) Khoikhoi (called the Hottentots by Europeans in South Africa) Xhosa (another South African people, not like the Zulus, who I believe are the models for the Tanagoro) Inuit Thai Vietnamese Nepalese Burmese err...that's all I can think of offhand. Just wondering if anyone's done anything for these, or other, RW cultures (I realize the last ones were probably done my the MOrient people, but I thought I'd ask). Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 21:14:51 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Other cultures At 08:59 PM 3/9/98 -0500, you wrote: >Hello All! >Has anyone detailled Mystaran cultures relating to the following RW cultures? >Georgians >Armenians >Hungarians >Persians >Cambodians (hmm, on second thought this was done on Myoshima...) Ethiopians >Berbers >Basques >Moors (maybe these were done in the SC, but I don't think there's a nation of them) >Laotians >Balts (I'm working on a Mystaran culture based on RW Latvia/Lithuania, actually - timeline's done and info coming to the list soon) Khoikhoi (called the Hottentots by Europeans in South Africa) Xhosa (another South African people, not like the Zulus, who I believe are the models for the Tanagoro) >Inuit >Thai >Vietnamese >Nepalese >Burmese >err...that's all I can think of offhand. Just wondering if anyone's done anything for these, or other, RW cultures (I realize the last ones were probably done my the MOrient people, but I thought I'd ask). >Geoff >-- >Geoff Gander, BA 97 >Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 21:16:00 -0500 From: Daly Subject: [MYSTARA] - Sorry about that Mr butterfingers here just hit send on a reply to a post by Geoff and it has absolutely nothing in it. Sorry. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 21:21:25 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Good page This is a note to Aleksei - I popped by your page - looks good so far. What are your plans for future developments? Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #153 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, March 10 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 154 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Firearms and Realism Re: [MYSTARA] - (*Way* Off Topic) Some Personal but Exciting News Re: [MYSTARA] - Other cultures Re: [MYSTARA] - (*Way* Off Topic) Some Personal but Exciting News [MYSTARA] - B11 Kings Festival Re: [MYSTARA] - What did you do during WotI? Re: [MYSTARA] - Holy symbols [MYSTARA] - OLD Dragons, Dungeons, & Polyhedrons [MYSTARA] - OOP AD&D for sale or Trade Re: [MYSTARA] - (*Way* Off Topic) Some Personal but Exciting News Re: [MYSTARA] - Imperial Geopolitical Intelligence Re: [MYSTARA] - Other cultures Re: [MYSTARA] - Other cultures Re: [MYSTARA] - What did you do during WotI? Re: [MYSTARA] - Other cultures Re: [MYSTARA] - Other cultures Re: [MYSTARA] - Good page Re: [MYSTARA] - (*Way* Off Topic) Some Personal but Exciting News [MYSTARA] - Bleeding and Infection Re: [MYSTARA] - Firearms and Realism Re: [MYSTARA] - B11 Kings Festival Re: [MYSTARA] - What did you do during WotI? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 20:00:22 -0000 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Firearms and Realism Alex295 meandered fecklessly... >Personal Observation: Gee, never seen Leroy post this often in one day. Hmmm, must have been the extra sleep from the weekend. I promise, now that weekdays are upon I will return to my ever-sluggish self. :) >>Ah yet another reason why I disdain the use of firearms in Mystara. A hit >>by a bullet does not go well with D&D HP. -- myself ><< OK, but what weapon does?>> >All are portrayed accurately as long as PCs are low level. A real person could >only take a real hit or two before dropping dead. The problems come when PCs >rise to 3rd level. I agree, but since xD&D goes far beyond this, I have to stand by my point. ><<[attempts at realistic gun stuff snipped]>> >"attempts" ? I think I have been insulted :-) Hehe, no, actually it is just that I have yet to see a system that seems to realistically model wounds, at least not without a vast array of tables, rules and dice-rolling. Heck, some games have a vast array of tables, rules and dice-rolling, yet still don't model wounds realistically! (i.e. Rolemaster) [us agreeing that the play is the thing snipped] ><> >The difference is that a hit by a firearm is a hit. Sure you could say that >the bulet bounces off plate armor or knicks a non vital area. And not all PCs >can or choose to wear armor. The graze to an arm or leg can only be justified >for so long. And as noted by myself as well as others, early firearms caused >horrendous wounds. A shot to the persons leg could kill him just as easily as >a shot to the chest cavity. >If firearms are used, I think that a means to determine damage should be based >upon a percentage of the PCs HP. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. Not taking into account things like bleeding and infection (two things AD&D does not really deal with), a surprising number of bullets are non-fatal. A friend of mine was a unit armourer and combat engineer in the US Army, and he had some interesting books on the subject. They went on to say that there were usually two results from a gunshot: Minor wounds that could be patched up and fixed failrly easily, or wounds that dropped you due to shock, and that a middle ground was rare (although all discussion was referring to small arms). While I believe a bullet is less likely to do a 1 or 2 point grazing wound, I believe a two-handed sword has just as much maximum potential, and for some guns, even more potential. (again, referring to small arms) This is why firearms in my games tend to do damage such as 1d6+3 rather than 1d10 ( or whatever). >Instead of shooting holes into them until their HPs wear down. A knife or spear can kill a man, even a well trained one if wielded by the right person, in one blow, so I don't really see a reason to differentiate a system of damage for a gun. ><< I do use smokepowder firearms in my Mystara games, though I do so sparingly. They are rare items, which helps maintain the sense of discovery when the characters find one, or encounter a person wielding one. For stats I just assigned some dice for damage, made up some times for reloading, and some costs.>> >By smokepowder, I take it you mean primarily in the Savage Coast. I use the term smokepowder in reference to AD&D, more specifically Spelljammer. I do not use Savage Coast in my Mystara. ><> >But AD&D differs from D&D. True, but not by much. >And according to some on this List AD&D is blasphemy. Yes, but, in all honesty, I can't help but think that any one who uses the term "blasphemy" to describe a simple set of fantasy game rules, except in jest, needs to loosen the ol' sphincter, or perhaps get out more often... >IMO firearms both literally and symbolically kill the image of a warrior and >spellcaster. To each his own. When treated as rare and wondrous items, I find they work as well as any magic item. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com ICQ #4253672 "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 22:04:53 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - (*Way* Off Topic) Some Personal but Exciting News At 01:32 PM 3/9/98 -0800, you wrote: >Hey there, to all the MML'ers! >I have some personal News that I just *had* to share with this wonderful group of individuals that I interact with so often: >I AM EXPECTING MY FIRST CHILD! >The baby is due September 18th, and now that I'm going into my second tri-mester we've (my husband and I) started telling people outside of our immediate family about our happy news. >Well, that's my News :-) Now back to your regularly scheduled Mystaraverse messages. >Jenni A. M. Merrifield >-=> strawberryJAMM <=- Heartiest congratulations to yourself and your husband, Jenni. Having already experienced the indescribable feeling of fathering a child, I know you're in for a fantastic future that will be more magical than Alphatia :-) If my little Peanut was awake right now he'd say something cute to pass on to you, but I'll just say that it's fantastic news, and I'm sure everyone on the list will be thrilled. Best of luck, and keep us posted; some off-topic topics are better than others. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 22:12:13 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Other cultures At 08:59 PM 3/9/98 -0500, you wrote: >Hello All! >Has anyone detailled Mystaran cultures relating to the following RW cultures? >Moors (maybe these were done in the SC, but I don't think there's a nation of them) Most of the cultures you listed haven't been done. But the Moors are alive and well in an official product; GAZ2, The Emirates of Ylaruam. If they aren't Moors, what are they? Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 22:35:23 -0600 From: Patriarch@cmnwrld.com (Patriarch) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - (*Way* Off Topic) Some Personal but Exciting News mystara-l@MPGN.COM,Internet writes: >I AM EXPECTING MY FIRST CHILD! Hey great! Any Mystara Names picked out? Patriarch mailto:Patriarch@cmnwrld.com Where I net game http://CWSpot.com/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 22:39:48 -0600 From: Patriarch@cmnwrld.com (Patriarch) Subject: [MYSTARA] - B11 Kings Festival I was offered to buy B11 for $5 in good condition. I dot won many B modules. I dont think many are that great. Anyone if it is any good and worth buying? What is it about? Patriarch mailto:Patriarch@cmnwrld.com Where I net game http://CWSpot.com/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 23:45:24 EST From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - What did you do during WotI? << I ignored it. The best defense for TSR's offense was to keep my cam- paigns in and around 1000 AC. >> So, do you end all of your campaigns around 1000? - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 23:52:47 EST From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Holy symbols << What if each temple has its own holy symbol, so that you may learn where a cleric comes from seeing his holy symbol? For example clerics of Ixion from Sundsvall may use a miniature wooden wheel (and set it aflame), while clerics of Ixion from Darokin may have a silver medallion of a flaming wheel. >> Okay, i agree with you here. I think that most should probably go by the same basic principle from the same church. However, i also think that certain priests may find something that can help them relate to thier deity better than what the church has made as the standard. These priests would probably be in the far minority, but it would be something somewhat unique to bring into a campaign IMHO. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 23:04:51 -0600 From: "Michael McKnab" Subject: [MYSTARA] - OLD Dragons, Dungeons, & Polyhedrons Sorry but forgot to tell you about the BACK issues of Dragons, Dungeons, & Polyhedrons that Troy has available. He just purchased thie RPG shop that so many of you have been emailed about & found BOXES & BOXES of all sorts of stuff. Some of which haven't been gone through yet!!! Anyway a list will be available in a few days detailing the mags!! Some include a smatering of: Several Best of Dragons!! Dungeons from 6-38 Polyhedrons from 46-current Dragons daing back to #43 & maybe earlier. Several copies of lots of issues!!! If interested email me at: mikkey@carrollsweb.com Thanks for your patience!!! Yours for deeper & better dungeons, Thanks in advance, Michael Mcknab mikkey@carrollsweb.com P.S. If you or anyone you know has information on RPGA Network Slipcases please put me in contact with them or them with me!! Also looking for a 10th Annniversary AD&D collectors set that came in it's own stylized slipcase. Thanks. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 22:59:54 -0600 From: "Michael McKnab" Subject: [MYSTARA] - OOP AD&D for sale or Trade This post is kinda long. If interested email mikkey@carrollsweb.com For all of you that I was supposed to get back to I will, but here is the list of stuff that is currently available!!! This stuff is not in my possession. I simply transcribed what The RPG shop owners had & put it all together here. Sorry it is not in a very good order but I will work on it & repost it eventually. IF interested email me privately!!! & I will get back to you in the order received. This time it will be much quicker because of HDD difficulties earlier. Thanks for your patience!! Enjoy. The guy that has this in his ROG shop is a newbie to owning a business, however is is no newbie to PRGing!!! He is trying to make ends meet & also trying to pay rent & is currently thinking about setting up a bed in his shop so he doesn't have to pay rent in 2 places (shhh... however his girlfriend soesn't like the idea).. GDQ1-7 Queen of Spiders for $150.00 (kinda beat up & missing map book) T1-4 Temple of Elemental Evil in EXCELLENT shape for $100.00 Greyhawk From the Ashes in Excellent condition for $100.00 WoG boxed of set in EXCELLENT condition for $75.00 H4 Throne of Bloodstone in EXCELLENT condition for $75.00 OP1 Tales of the Outer Planes in EXCELLENT for $50.00 Manual of the Planes in EXCELLENT cond for $70.00 I3-5 Desert of Desolation Super-Mod in EXEC cond for $100.00 Deities & Demigods (no Cthulu) in EXEC Forgotten Realms 1st ed boxed set Forgotten Realms 2nd ed campaign boxed set Menzoberranzan Bxed Set Monster Manual 1st ed original cover Dungeon Masters Guide 1st ed original cover Fiend Folio 1st ed original cover Monsterous Compendium Notebook Vol 1 & 2 Psionics Handbook Monsterous Compendium Annual Vol 1 Dark Sun boxed set 1st release Dungone Master Screen 1st ed Now the cheaper ones. Q1 Queen of the Demon Web Pits WG8 Fate of Istus WG5 Mordy's Fantastic Adventure WG6 Isle of the Ape N1 Against the Cult of the Reptile God MV1 Midnight on Dagger Alley LC4 Port of Raven's Bluff I2 Tomb of the Lizard King GA2 Swamplight FRC2 Curse of the Azure Bonds FRA3 Blood Charge FRA2 Black Courser FRA1 Storm Riders FR1 Waterdeep & the North DQ1 The Shattered Statue C2 The Ghost Tower of Inverness T1 The Village of Hommlett (monochrome ed) C1 The Hidden of Tamoachan AC4 The Book of Marvelous Magic Battlesystem Minatures Rules Greyhawk Adventures Hardback Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 08:18:56 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #154 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 3217e4e353122af6b1fe76a7600ff70f WGS2 Howl from the North WGR4 The Marklands WG11 Puppets WG10 Child's Play A4 In the Dungeons of the Slave Lords AC9 Creature Catalog B10 Night's Dark Terror CM1 Test of the Warlords D1-2 Desent into the Depths of the Earth EX1 Dungeonland EX2 Land Beyond the Magic Mirror FRE1 Shadowdale FRE2 Tantras G123 Against the Giants I6 Ravenloft IM3 Best of Intentions MV1 Midnight in Dagger Alley N4 Treasure Hunt PC1 Tall Tales of the Wee Folk RR7 Van Richten's Guide to Werebeasts S3 Expedition to Barrier Peaks SJA1 Wild Space U1 Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh WG12 Vale of the Mage WGA1 Falcon's Revenge WGR3 Rary the Traitor X10 Red Arrow, Black Shield X11 Saga of the Shadow Lord The Atlas of the Dragonlance World DL11 Dragons of Glory 2@DL12 Dragons of Faith DL15 Mists of Krynn DL16 Worlds of Krynn DLC1 Classics Vol I DLC2 Classics Vol II DLC3 Classics Vol III DLA3 Dragons Rest DLE1 In Search of Dragons DLE2 Dragon Magic DLQ1 Knights Sword DLS1 New Beginnings DLS4 Wild Elves Yours for deeper & better dungeons, Thanks in advance, Michael Mcknab mikkey@carrollsweb.com P.S. If you or anyone you know has information on RPGA Network Slipcases please put me in contact with them or them with me!! Also looking for a 10th Annniversary AD&D collectors set that came in it's own stylized slipcase. Thanks. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 20:23:26 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - (*Way* Off Topic) Some Personal but Exciting News Jenni A. M. Merrifield wrote: >I AM EXPECTING MY FIRST CHILD! Congrats, Jenni! Great news! - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 02:14:25 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Imperial Geopolitical Intelligence In a message dated 98-03-09 20:21:43 EST, Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk writes: >IMPERIAL GEOPOLITICAL INTELLIGENCE, AC 1010 (snip) >**** Main representative is Prince Volospin Aendyr, Chancellor of the Princes. First correction: Prince Volospin is dead before AC 1010. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 02:14:29 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Other cultures In a message dated 98-03-09 22:42:45 EST, borealis@cois.on.ca writes: >Most of the cultures you listed haven't been done. But the Moors are alive aand well in an official product; GAZ2, The Emirates of Ylaruam. If they aren't Moors, what are they? Arabs? Since Moors are a mixture of Arab and Berber, a Moorish culture could be established on the coast of Tangor. Maybe at some time in the distant past this culture invaded the Savage Baronies? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 02:14:27 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Other cultures In a message dated 98-03-09 21:17:26 EST, au998@freenet.carleton.ca writes: >Has anyone detailled Mystaran cultures relating to the following RW cultures? (snip) >Inuit I was thinking of detailing such a culture as part of a "Hyborea" gazetteer at one time. It would give me an excuse to make player characters out of various arctic creatures described in the _Creature Catalog_. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 03:02:46 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - What did you do during WotI? In a message dated 98-03-09 23:59:28 EST, Inconu@aol.com writes: >So, do you end all of your campaigns around 1000? Alternatively, you can simply decide that the events of WotI "didn't happen". My campaign got up to AC 1004 or 1005 that way -- of course, the real reason that happened was that I was playing before WotI came out. And of course I did find that TSR had kept some NPCs that I had killed off and vice versa.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 19:27:51 +1100 From: s9406058@student.anu.edu.au (stan) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Other cultures >Has anyone detailled Mystaran cultures relating to the following RW cultures? >Ethiopians The map of Skothar on the MOrient homepage has an area set aside for an Ethiopian culture, so ... But then again I haven't really seen anything come out of the MOrient crew in a little while. >Inuit Steven Wilson's timeline for Hyboria (available on my homepage - go fig) is based on the Inuit. Then again the timeline as it stands is almost lifted directly from the Forgotten Realms accessory the Great Glacier. This isn't a bad thing in and of itself as Steven admits this - however I think a more Mystaran feel could be given to the area. In fact the Great Glacier product could be used as a guideline for the culture and such unless we have an Inuit on board here. The Great Glacier accessory is IMHO one of the better non-Mystaran gaming accessories I've come across - in fact it's the only non-Mystaran accessory which I've owned which I haven't subsequently resold because of the lack of impress the product placed on me. >Nepalese >Thai Again, an area is set aside for these cultures on Sokthar by the MOrient crew. >Khoikhoi (called the Hottentots by Europeans in South Africa) Xhosa (another South African people, not like the Zulus, who I believe are the models for the Tanagoro) Yeah it's funny that. The only African cultures which are really ever described in any detail in gaming circles is Egyptian. OK, Mystara has the Tanagoro but these haven't really been described in the greatest of details. But then again there is the outerworld Tangor people who are still floating about who are just ripe for the describing - although a number of these may still inhabit Skothar which may be destined to have a more oriental flavour. >err...that's all I can think of offhand. I'm sure if we wanted to we could think of hundreds if not thousands more, of course finding enough information on thousands more might be a bit tough. Shawn Stanley http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 11:12:43 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Other cultures On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, Glen Sprigg wrote: >Most of the cultures you listed haven't been done. But the Moors are alive and well in an official product; GAZ2, The Emirates of Ylaruam. If they aren't Moors, what are they? The Ylari are more like the traditional Arabs. There aren't really any 'Moors', since Ylaruam does not border on African-like areas. OTOH, the Ylari of Nicostenia and Dythestenia could be seen as somewhat different from the normal Ylari, more like RW Syrians and Egyptians (the medieval ones). Additionally, Dythestenia's capital, Ctesiphon, was also the capital of RW Persia. ****************************************** Aleksei Andrievski k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi aka Solmyr, the Archmage of the Azure Star Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 11:09:21 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Good page On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, Geoff Gander wrote: >This is a note to Aleksei - I popped by your page - looks good so far. What are your plans for future developments? Thanks. I mostly plan to update the information about the various realms in my PBeM game, and occaionally put up the stuff about 'normal' Mystara when I create it. ****************************************** Aleksei Andrievski k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi aka Solmyr, the Archmage of the Azure Star Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 10:38:58 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - (*Way* Off Topic) Some Personal but Exciting News At 13.32 09/03/98 -0800, Jenni A. M. Merrifield wrote: HHey there, to all the MML'ers! >I have some personal News that I just *had* to share with this wonderful group of individuals that I interact with so often: >I AM EXPECTING MY FIRST CHILD! Blow the trumpets!! Hear Ye, Hear Ye! Another Miracle is going to bless all of us, Mystarans: the coming of a new Light on Mystara is close! Cheer up and dance, for this is a truly amazing event: the mystery of birth is the joy of life! Congratulations to you Jenni and to your lucky husband :) >The baby is due September 18th, and now that I'm going into my second tri-mester we've (my husband and I) started telling people outside of our immediate family about our happy news. Let us know when the baby joins us ! >Well, that's my News :-) Now back to your regularly scheduled Mystaraverse messages. As Glenn already said, "some off-topic topics are better than others". >Jenni A. M. Merrifield >-=> strawberryJAMM <=- PS: What about changing it into Strawberrymum ;) DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 07:02:49 EST From: Inconu Subject: [MYSTARA] - Bleeding and Infection << Not taking into account things like bleeding and infection (two things AD&D does not really deal with), >> Does anyone have bleeding and infection rules that they've created? AD&D did make bleeding rules...but they weren't too thorough IIRC. I've never really even considered infection rules to be honest, but it would make sense to add something like that to my game. Anyone have ideas or rules that they use? - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 07:05:17 EST From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Firearms and Realism << Yes, but, in all honesty, I can't help but think that any one who uses the term "blasphemy" to describe a simple set of fantasy game rules, except in jest, needs to loosen the ol' sphincter, or perhaps get out more often.. >> Who can really go through all the bizzillions of AD&D sourcebooks and truly say that not one rule could add to thier campaign? - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 08:02:27 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - B11 Kings Festival At 10:39 PM 3/9/98 -0600, you wrote: >I was offered to buy B11 for $5 in good condition. I dot won many B modules. I dont think many are that great. Anyone if it is any good and worth buying? >What is it about? It is the first of a 2-parter during a time when TSR was putting out skimpy modules with alot of fluff. It is set in Karameikos and I believe, despite its skimpiness, that it does add somewhat to the setting. There is alot of "Beginning DM" stuff you have to wade through... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 08:15:56 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - What did you do during WotI? At 11:45 PM 3/9/98 EST, you wrote: ><< I ignored it. The best defense for TSR's offense was to keep my cam- >paigns in and around 1000 AC. >> >So, do you end all of your campaigns around 1000? The setting is referred to as "1000 AC" simply to differentiate it from post WotI. As stated later in his message his campaign is currently in year 1001. A person is certainly free to discard WotI events. Some people even find them offensive due to the changes to the setting. In my never-to-be-humble opinion the changes and events are well done but in the end designed to make Mystara more generic. Personally my campaign is a "1000 AC" campaign and yet my current year is 1014. In other words I have not yet run WotI but incidently I plan to sometime in the unspecified future. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #154 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 13:30:42 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #155 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 97fdf86edeeccd6e65a8ae8926058ad0 mystara-digest Tuesday, March 10 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 155 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - B11 Kings Festival Re: [MYSTARA] - Holy symbols Re: [MYSTARA] - Imperial Geopolitical Intelligence Re: [MYSTARA] - Firearms and Realism Re: [MYSTARA] - (*Way* Off Topic) Some Personal but Exciting News Re: [MYSTARA] - B11 Kings Festival Re: [MYSTARA] - Firearms and Realism [MYSTARA] - Mystara's fate: our fault? Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's fate: our fault? [MYSTARA] - No new products?! Re: [MYSTARA] - Firearms and Realism Re: [MYSTARA] - No new products?! Re: [MYSTARA] - Firearms and Realism Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's fate: our fault? Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's fate: our fault? [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystara's fate: our fault? Re: [MYSTARA] - Imperial Geopolitical Intelligence ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 14:39:53 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - B11 Kings Festival On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, Patriarch wrote: >I was offered to buy B11 for $5 in good condition. I dot won many B modules. I dont think many are that great. Anyone if it is any good and worth buying? >What is it about? Orcs have kidnapped the Allaric the cleric and stuffed him into a dungeon in the wilderness! This is especially terrible because Allaric needs to be preparing the upcoming Kings Festival celebrating Halav. Its basically just another dungeon adventure. It becomes a bit more interesting if you also have b12 Queens Harvest, which is conserned with a plot to take over the barony of Penhaligion. This is actually the background of my current campaign although I´ve changed it quite a bit, introducing Orcus, a few artifacts and Argos, the Green Dragon also has a couple of things to say. You dont reallyy need it, but $5? I´d not even hesitate to buy a Mystara product fro that price. But hey I´m a sucker for that kind of stuff. sincerely Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 14:46:39 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Holy symbols On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, Inconu wrote: ><< >What if each temple has its own holy symbol, so that you may learn where a cleric comes from seeing his holy symbol? For example clerics of Ixion from Sundsvall may use a miniature wooden wheel (and set it aflame), while clerics of Ixion from Darokin may have a silver medallion of a flaming wheel. >> >Okay, i agree with you here. I think that most should probably go by the same basic principle from the same church. However, i also think that certain priests may find something that can help them relate to thier deity better than what the church has made as the standard. These priests would probably be in the far minority, but it would be something somewhat unique to bring into a campaign IMHO. IMC it depends a lot on which church you belong to, not only which Immortal you follow. Ie the various temples of the church of Thyatis will have totally different practices from those in Alphatia, unless the ones in Alphatia are the result of Thyatian missionaries. Alphatians could have been worshipping Ixion from the time when they were living on their own world, or they could have picked it up from the local population of the continents in the Alphatian sea after arriving Mystara. Religions practiced there would have developed separatley from the Church of Thyatis. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 14:53:47 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Imperial Geopolitical Intelligence On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, Thorfinn Tait wrote: >Remember the tables on the Known World Trail Maps? Among other things they include information on most of the nations of the Known World, in various different categories. >For ages I've been meaning to revise them, and I finally got a chance today (in between exam revision, essay writing and Hollow World event- writing :-). >So, here is my first revised version of the first "Imperial Geopolitical Intelligence" table. A few things were mistakes in the original (that is they have been contradicted since it was written), so I have corrected them where I knew the correct version. Other things I don't know the correct data for, so please feel free to correct me, and I'll add it in. Hi Thorf! Great work. Looks good to me so far. What else have you got? :) Sincerely Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 08:59:36 EST From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Firearms and Realism In a message dated 98-03-09 14:43:50 EST, bjm10 writes: << On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, Alex295 wrote: >The difference is that a hit by a firearm is a hit. Sure you could say that the bulet bounces off plate armor or knicks a non vital area. And not all PCs The difference is that a hit by an arrow is a hit. >> But then the "pin cushion effect" comes in. Even a 10th lvl. Fighter is going to showing alot of arrows protruding from their bodies before falling. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 09:05:05 EST From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - (*Way* Off Topic) Some Personal but Exciting News In a message dated 98-03-09 16:44:53 EST, you write: << Hey there, to all the MML'ers! I have some personal News that I just *had* to share with this wonderful group of individuals that I interact with so often: I AM EXPECTING MY FIRST CHILD! The baby is due September 18th, and now that I'm going into my second tri-mester we've (my husband and I) started telling people outside of our immediate family about our happy news. Well, that's my News :-) Now back to your regularly scheduled Mystaraverse messages. Jenni A. M. Merrifield >> Congrats!! My oldest sister is with child and due in October, on my birthday no less. I know how giddy her and her husband have been since hearing the news. Anyway, good luck. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 09:00:24 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - B11 Kings Festival At 10:39 PM 3/9/98 -0600, you wrote: >I was offered to buy B11 for $5 in good condition. I dot won many B modules. I dont think many are that great. Anyone if it is any good and worth buying? >What is it about? King's Festival is a beginning gamer's adventure; it's great for getting new DMs started; it's not a complicated adventure by any means, and it's chock-full of tips and advice. If you're an experienced DM, it won't be as useful, but it's still a great campaign starter. It's set in Karameikos, near Penhaligon. $5 is a pretty good deal, especially if you don't have many basic adventures. I'd grab it ifI were you. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 09:34:15 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Firearms and Realism On Tue, 10 Mar 1998, Alex295 wrote: >But then the "pin cushion effect" comes in. Even a 10th lvl. Fighter is going to showing alot of arrows protruding from their bodies before falling. So why should bullets be any different? Why give firearms special status with a truly brain-dead extra damage rule? If all other weapons are unrealistic, then guns should be unrealistic in the same way. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 17:35:47 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's fate: our fault? Hi everybody! I was checking out TSR site (i visited it last time in 1997) a few hours ago and i stumbled into the 1998 TSR catalogue. imagine my surprise when i saw that TSR planned to revamp and start again publishing two of its dead lines, namely Greyhawk (entirely left to Roger E. Moore) and Marvel Superheroes (this one designed by the hitherto unknown Bill Olmesdhal), which comprises both an RPG and a Dice Game line. Then my attention was drawn by two other names that i never imagined could be featured in a TSR catalogue: Xena and Hercules, so i checked out what was coming out. It's basically an Endless Quest Dice Game, with dices and cards, to recreate the adventures of those mighty heroes (by Ed Stark). Now you might wonder: "how the heck is this related to Mystara?" Well, in a way it is: Mystara is still a dead line of products. TSR has revived Greyhawk (which suffered from the same problems of Mystara iirc, that's to say low sales) and even Marvel (long considered not enough profitable and dropped when Marvel and TSR clashed on some copyright issues), which has far less supporters among the roleplayers than Greyhawk (which also boasts an older background). And then TSR started two new lines like Xena and Hercules, which try to exploit the success obtained by the TV series to attract profans to the RPG world (it's unlikely the two dice games are targeted to seasoned roleplayers, mind you). Well, this all seems very strange to me, especially after all that's been said and done by TSR and WotC after the merger. I mean, they swore they'd never engage again in useless and hazardous product, and to cut the budget they closed some of the old lines like our beloved Mystara, Greyhawk and Dark Sun. they were even forced (but i don't think this is the right term...) to move their staff to the other coast of the continent, thus loosing many of their best employees. And all of this to cut the budget and pay losses that TSR had accumulated over the years. Then they told us: "Quality instead of Quantity" will be the new house rule. And next year (1998) they published Xena and Hercules Dice game and Marvel superheroes, along with a mile long list of new novels for each of their campaign setting (another of the causes of their financial problems in the past years). All this lines to say that to me TSR is not really doing what it promised, but nevertheless we still don't have Mystara reopened. Why? Was it so profitless as a campaign line? Was it so unbearable from the economic point of view? I start to wonder if Mystara could have been TSR cause of near bankruptcy then... Anyway, what i now ask myself and you is: might be that Mystara's cathaleptic state is our fault? It seems that TSR merged with WotC merely to exploit their better financial situation and get more funds to further its projects (even the most absurd ones), so why cannot we jump on the train too and force them to reopen Mystara with new and fresh products? Where are we failing?... DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 11:55:19 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's fate: our fault? At 05:35 PM 3/10/98 +0100, you wrote: >Hi everybody! Where are we >failing?... >DM Have all who are interested (and I know there are several who would rather not have TSR awaken Mystara in any form) e-mailed WotC about reviving our favorite setting? I have. I believe if we are loud enough they will at the very least toss an independant project or two our way. E-mail is quite easy. If you are interested then there is no excuse. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 17:00:47 GMT From: Stuart Kerrigan Subject: [MYSTARA] - No new products?! Hi. I'm testing this mailing list. Is there no new products for mystara? Is the Oddyssey series still set on Mystara (although it can technically be placed elsewhere). Stuart Kerrigan 19 North Balmossie Street Monifieth Dundee DD5 4QL Tel: (01382) 532507 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:46:56 EST From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Firearms and Realism In a message dated 98-03-09 22:21:49 EST, Leroy writes: << Alex295 meandered fecklessly... >>Ah yet another reason why I disdain the use of firearms in Mystara. A hit >>by a bullet does not go well with D&D HP. -- myself ><< OK, but what weapon does?>> >All are portrayed accurately as long as PCs are low level. A real person could >only take a real hit or two before dropping dead. The problems come when PCs >rise to 3rd level. I agree, but since xD&D goes far beyond this, I have to stand by my point.>> We agree!?!? Cool. But seriously, once PCs get up in levels it is the DMs job to fit damage into a game. Whatever house rules are used, stick with them as long as they work for you and your group. ><<[attempts at realistic gun stuff snipped]>> >"attempts" ? I think I have been insulted :-) <> Well if there was a beat all system for damage this thread would not be being discussed. I have seen some of those "tables a plenty" system. I prefer the K.I.S.S. system; Keep It Simple Stupid. The trick then, is that the DM has to work out a satisfactory system that works for his group. [various stuff about getting shot vs. getting stabbed snipped] << I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. Not taking into account things like bleeding and infection (two things AD&D does not really deal with), a surprising number of bullets are Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 13:30:42 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #155 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 97fdf86edeeccd6e65a8ae8926058ad0 non-fatal.>> Not really. I do not think we totally disagree with each other. At the most, I think we just have opposing opinions on some of this. And as we all know, you cannot argue opinions. It's impossible as well as a waste of bandwidth. <> Well, my family has had its share of vets. One such example was my great uncle. He served in WW2 in the 82nd AirBorne, Korea, and Vietnam with the 5th Special Forces (airborne). In his career, he was repeatedly wounded. In WW2 he was shot both in Italy as well as Normandy. In Normandy, he was actually shot three times and blown off a tank by a concussion grenade. Yet he recovered from all his wounds. The ironic thing was that it was Parkinsons disease that killed him well after his retirement and subsequent work with the CIA as an advisor. Then there is my father, who served in Vietnam. He was never shot or blown up. He injured his knee climbing off a armoured recovery vehicle. Currently, he has had his knee operated on twice and expects to have problems with it for the rest of his life. I could and probably should dig out the biography written about another of my kin, Barry Benson, a Civil War hero. But I won't. I could also talk about my cousin and his witness to Desert Storm. But I won't. Each can tell of seeing other men killed by single shots. Daddy told me once about a friend of his getting hit by a sniper and of the small entrance wound and then the gaping exit wound. IIRC it was a SKS that killed him. In an article for Reader's Digest, my uncle told of men dropping from single shots. Men dying from 20mm and 37mm rounds. Men being shredded by grenades. This is not a bragging episode for my family. Instead, it is a display that people react differently to wounds. <> Oh I agree. A sharpened stick can kill you as easily as a 120mm tank gun. In fact, I have always thought twohanded swords were not allowed enough damage. For instance, a Scottish Claymore was brutal against even thickly armored troops. Legs, arms, chest cavities were nothing for this blade. For firearms, I like a "%" based damage. Give a Con check for shock and it could be made to work. >Instead of shooting holes into them until their HPs wear down. A knife or spear can kill a man, even a well trained one if wielded by the right person, in one blow, so I don't really see a reason to differentiate a system of damage for a gun.>> True. No system is needed if you consider a gun to be an arrow or crossbow bolt. However, if you want to compensate for shock and such other means need to be added. If you accept the given damage system for any weapon there is no problem either. Like I said, that is a chore for the DM to distribute damge accordingly. >By smokepowder, I take it you mean primarily in the Savage Coast. I use the term smokepowder in reference to AD&D, more specifically Spelljammer. I do not use Savage Coast in my Mystara.>> Never messed with Spelljammer, though I can imagine a firearm could be implemented there fairly easily. IMC the Savage Coast is a distant place difficult to access. And even then, firearms do not exist. I like to substitute them with hand crossbows. ><> >But AD&D differs from D&D. <> I am actually glad you said that. If I had, some List members would be falming the dickens out of me. Have you noticed that if all of the Optional Rules and Rules Suppliments are taken into account, the differences between D&D and AD&D are minor. >And according to some on this List AD&D is blasphemy. Yes, but, in all honesty, I can't help but think that any one who uses the term "blasphemy" to describe a simple set of fantasy game rules, except in jest, needs to loosen the ol' sphincter, or perhaps get out more often...>> As Bruce so put it "Its just a game". IMO the setting is more important than what Rules you use. A DM can screw up a campaign just as easy with D&D as with AD&D. >IMO firearms both literally and symbolically kill the image of a warrior and >spellcaster. To each his own. When treated as rare and wondrous items, I find they work as well as any magic item.>> Like I said, I do not think we are all too far apart on this. Your use of Spelljammer makes firearms more acceptable. As long as firearms are rare and wonderous then I have no problem with them. When it comes to every Tom, Dick, and Harry having them, there is a problem. Our main difference lays with opinion. And opinions are something that cannot be easily debated. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 18:59:07 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - No new products?! On Tue, 10 Mar 1998, Stuart Kerrigan wrote: >Hi. I'm testing this mailing list. >Is there no new products for mystara? Is the Oddyssey series still set on Mystara (although it can technically be placed elsewhere). Hi Stuart! This may seem cruel, but I'm sorry to say Mystara is no longer among us. She has passed away, ceased to be. She is an ex setting. Well, maybe they'll bring her back some time, but there will not be any MYSTARA products in any near future. If you want more setting material, adventure ideas, new pc races, new monsters and more. You should stick around. This mailinglist is where it happens. :) Some websites you might find interesting: TSR stuff: http://www.tsrinc.com/games/adnd/mystara/index.html and: http://www.tsrinc.com/games/adnd/savagecoast/index.html Mailinglist homepage: http://www.lesbois.com/members/malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html Shawn Stanleys site and mailinglist archive: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/index.html Marco DM Dalmontes site: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/3090/ And while you're at it check out mine ;) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc/mystara.html All of these sites include links so you'll get all the info you need about unofficial Mystaras. Sincerely Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:51:39 EST From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Firearms and Realism In a message dated 98-03-10 09:48:26 EST, bjm10 writes: << On Tue, 10 Mar 1998, Alex295 wrote: >But then the "pin cushion effect" comes in. Even a 10th lvl. Fighter is going >to showing alot of arrows protruding from their bodies before falling. So why should bullets be any different? Why give firearms special status with a truly brain-dead extra damage rule? If all other weapons are unrealistic, then guns should be unrealistic in the same way. >> I have decided not to comment on this anymore. It seems that I just keep restating the same responses over and over. I you cannot see those answers and previous posts then that is not my fault. Do what you want to do in your own campaign. To be honest, I really do not care. That is my opinion and I will not get into a debate based on opinions. It is pointless and offers no closure for either side. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:55:56 EST From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's fate: our fault? << I believe if we are loud enough they will at the very least toss an independant project or two our way. E-mail is quite easy. If you are interested then there is no excuse. >> That is what revived Greyhawk mostly I believe. It seems as though there were far more Greyhawk fans pushing WOTC than there was Mystara fans pushing for it. So, they decided to bring back Greyhawk. Maybe if they accumulate enough Mystara fan-email.......in time....(say they review for resurrecting it once a year) it will eventually come back. But then again....all i know is mostly hear-say on this issue. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 11:56:29 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's fate: our fault? At 05:35 PM 3/10/98 +0100, you wrote: >Anyway, what i now ask myself and you is: might be that Mystara's cathaleptic state is our fault? It seems that TSR merged with WotC merely to exploit their better financial situation and get more funds to further its projects (even the most absurd ones), so why cannot we jump on the train too and force them to reopen Mystara with new and fresh products? Where are we failing?... Personally, I don't think we're doing enough. I spend a good bit of time in TSR's chatrooms (a certain demon shows up once in a while, too). There are many people that remember Mystara (usually as the Known World and Hollow World). They played the solo adventure fighting Bargle and then, eventually, moved on to AD&D like TSR guided them to. There's a lot of people that like the setting and remember it fondly. Would they be interested in helping to get it back in publishing? I don't know but I get the feeling fans of the setting just aren't cohesive enough a base to build something like that from. I've contacted Thomas Reid in the past about Mystara's return (the response is below with his address). From his response, it looks like its dead and not being considered at all unless something happens. That something is going to have to be us. It's not going to happen if we just sit back and wait. We're going have to give them the assurance that there are enough people to support it even if it's a small run. And we're also going have to tell them what we want. No gimmick CDs, just solid product. I've included Reid's letter (he's the one Mystara falls under) and Monty Cook's (designer for Planescape) response to my message about where the Immortals were fitted into Planescape. *** Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 18:02:57 -0800 To: "Galwylin" From: "Thomas M. Reid" Subject: Re: Mystara At 01:35 AM 12/1/97 -0600, you wrote: >I was just wondering if there are any plans for release of products for Mystara or is it a dead world now? Well, the answer to your question is not a simple yes or no. We are not currently planning to release any more products for the MYSTARA(TM) line. However, we never consider a line to be dead. If at some time down the road we figure it would be profitable to start that line up again, we'll seriously consider it. But at this point, I would say it is unlikely. Thomas M. Reid Brand Manager, ADVANCED DUNGEONS & DRAGONS(R) and PLANESCAPE(R) lines *** Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 09:53:50 -0800 From: Monte Cook To: Galwylin Subject: Re: Mystara and Planescape There are no products which really mix Planescape and Mystara much, particularly on the subject of Immortals. The 2nd Edition AD&D Karameikos set discusses the immortals (briefly) as though they were powers. It's been a long time since I've looked at anything Mystara, but perhaps putting the Immortals in a demi-plane would be a good idea, or all in a single realm in the Outlands? I guess the short answer is, no official decision has been made on this. Sorry. Maybe in the future. Monte Cook _____________________________________ This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: 10 Mar 1998 12:25:29 -0600 From: Alan Shutko Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystara's fate: our fault? >>>>>"D" == Daly writes: D> Have all who are interested (and I know there are several who would D> rather not have TSR awaken Mystara in any form) e-mailed WotC about D> reviving our favorite setting? I have. I agree that this is a good way of letting WotC know that we are interested in buying Mystara products (or D&D products, which I've also emailed them about.) Peter Adkinson himself replied to me once saying that he thought Mystara was quite well-designed, but that product line decisions would have to consider percieved demand. My suggestion would be to write a calm, reasoned post to the TSR brand manager, and let him know you'd purchase Mystara products if they were available. It's almost certain we won't get the line reopened at once, but if we were to get some reprints or something from the Odyssey line, we could try to show TSR that there _is_ demand for Mystara products. - -- Alan Shutko - By consent of the corrupted Do Miami a favor. When you leave, take someone with you. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 16:58:28 +0000 From: Thorfinn Tait Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Imperial Geopolitical Intelligence On Tue, 10 Mar 1998 Kaviyd wrote: ****** Main representative is Prince Volospin Aendyr, Chancellor of the Princes. >First correction: Prince Volospin is dead before AC 1010. Thanks! I noticed this one myself last night, after I sent out the mail, while doing some researching for Table 2. Shame to kill off Volospin, actually... I have to say, that meteor is probably my least favourite part of Wrath of the Immortals (at least as far as plausibility is concerned). Incidentally I forgot to mention last time that the original author of all the tables on the Trail Maps (as far as I know) was Bruce Heard. Does anyone know why the trail maps were stopped? I heard a long time ago that TSR didn't plan on making any more because they didn't sell well, but I would have thought they'd be very popular. Thorf. ========================================= "All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost." Thorfinn Tait--Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk Unofficial Keeper of the Offical Timeline ========================================= *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #155 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, March 10 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 156 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's fate: our fault? Re: [MYSTARA] - Imperial Geopolitical Intelligence Re: [MYSTARA] - B11 Kings Festival Re: [MYSTARA] - (*Way* Off Topic) Some Personal but Exciting News Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's fate: our fault? Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's fate: our fault? Re: [MYSTARA] - Bleeding and Infection Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's fate: our fault? Re: [MYSTARA] - Bleeding and Infection [MYSTARA] - For Italian readers only Re: [MYSTARA] - Bleeding and Infection Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's fate: our fault? Re: [MYSTARA] - Firearms and Realism Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's fate: our fault? Re(2): [MYSTARA] - Mystara's fate: our fault? [MYSTARA] - The Fate of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - (*Way* Off Topic) Re: [MYSTARA] - (*Way* Off Topic) Re: [MYSTARA] - (*Way* Off Topic) Some Personal but Exciting News Tact [was Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's fate: our fault?] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 13:29:47 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's fate: our fault? Ok. How about this...We compile a list of names/e-mail addresses(for purposes of verification) kinda like a petition. We attach the list to a letter and toss it WotC's way. To: "Thomas M. Reid" CC: "Bill Slavicsek" RE: The resurrection of Mystara Dear sirs, As the faithful consumers of the Mystaran product line, we would like to see the setting return either as a full line or as an independent accessory. We are aware that Wizards of the Coast does not currently believe they can successfully present any material based in Mystara. However it is our firm belief that Mystara's earlier sales are more reflective of the then current attempt to direct the setting toward beginning players. The experienced players had no reason to by the products and so the setting faltered. A small but strong "test product" would be supported by all those signed here. We fervently hope you consider this. "Jeff Daly" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 13:48:50 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Imperial Geopolitical Intelligence At 04:58 PM 3/10/98 +0000, you wrote: >On Tue, 10 Mar 1998 Kaviyd wrote: ******* Main representative is Prince Volospin Aendyr, Chancellor of the Princes. >>First correction: Prince Volospin is dead before AC 1010. >Thanks! I noticed this one myself last night, after I sent out the mail, while doing some researching for Table 2. >Shame to kill off Volospin, actually... I have to say, that meteor is probably my least favourite part of Wrath of the Immortals (at least as far as plausibility is concerned). >Incidentally I forgot to mention last time that the original author of all the tables on the Trail Maps (as far as I know) was Bruce Heard. >Does anyone know why the trail maps were stopped? I heard a long time ago that TSR didn't plan on making any more because they didn't sell well, but I would have thought they'd be very popular. >Thorf. Problem was that they were pulled too quickly to be found by the time I got around to purchasing them. I finally did find a copy in the mail order realms. But I found the maps to be rather huge and unlikely to be much use within an actual gaming session. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 15:30:59 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - B11 Kings Festival << I was offered to buy B11 for $5 in good condition. I dot won many B modules. I dont think many are that great. Anyone if it is any good and worth buying? What is it about? >> Yes, but not more... I's the story of a missing cleric in a Karameikan village short before King Halav's day (<== King's Festival). You have to free him from orc's and can discover an evil cleric below the orcs. From there a clue leads to B12 - Queen's Harvest, a quite good module. I've played both with an Ethengarian group in Karameikos and right now I'm replaying it in far eastern Glantri with a solo character. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 15:30:54 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - (*Way* Off Topic) Some Personal but Exciting News << I AM EXPECTING MY FIRST CHILD! >> Great! A new roleplayer is to be born! Jamuga Khan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 15:32:03 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's fate: our fault? << Where are we failing?... DM >> Probably TSR assumes that we are a group of mindless idiots to be shot down, once when the revolution comes. (I excuse for not repeating it correct; it's just a retranslation). Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:56:52 -0800 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's fate: our fault? At 01:29 PM 3/10/98 -0500, Daly wrote: >Ok. How about this...We compile a list of names/e-mail addresses(for purposes of verification) kinda like a petition. We attach the list to a letter and toss it WotC's way. Great idea Jeff! Are you offering to be 'collector of the names'? I do have a couple of suggestions though: As well as email addresses, those that are willing to have their snail mail address included should be encouraged to do so. Email is still perceived as a rather transient thing, unlike snail-mail addresses. Including these would just lend a bit more weight to the seriousness of our 'petition'. And for those who do not want to pass out their addresses, see if they would be willing to add their home city, state (and country where necessary). This would be useful particularily as it would serve to show WotC how wide spread their potential Mystara consumers actually are. Secondly, you might want to post the body of the message to the RPG newsgroups to see if you can pick up any Mystara Lovers who aren't on the mailing list. I'd recommend NOT including the To: and Cc: information there though, and just ask parties interested in having their information added to the petition to contact you directly. It's better to send one message with all the appropriately attached information than to end up with an accidental Mystara Spam sent to WotC! (Wouldn't *that* just impress them to no end? :-I ) Thirdly, another useful bit of information to add to the message would be to mention a few of the web sites dedicated to Mystara, and to point out that there are many more -- despite the fact that it the world itself has been cancelled. Making WotC aware of how many people truly love Mystara certainly can't hurt. Finally, I noticed one typo in your proposed letter: >The experienced >players had no reason to by the products and so the setting faltered. ^^ buy Just say the word and I'll send you snail mail info privately. You can go ahead and add my name and email anyway. (Jenni A. M. Merrifield ) Jenni - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield http://www.jamm.com/jenni/home.html - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- strawberry@jamm.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 15:31:59 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bleeding and Infection << Does anyone have bleeding and infection rules that they've created? AD&D did make bleeding rules...but they weren't too thorough IIRC. I've never really even considered infection rules to be honest, but it would make sense to add something like that to my game. Anyone have ideas or rules that they use? >> DO YOU REALLY WANT ANYTHING LIKE THAT ???? (No further mails from the Mighty Khan to be expected on this thread) Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 16:18:37 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's fate: our fault? At 12:56 PM 3/10/98 -0800, you wrote: >At 01:29 PM 3/10/98 -0500, Daly wrote: >>Ok. How about this...We compile a list of names/e-mail addresses(for purposes of verification) kinda like a petition. We attach the list to a letter and toss it WotC's way. >Great idea Jeff! Are you offering to be 'collector of the names'? *blush* Thanks. I am glad you thought it was a good idea. Sure. I will collect the names. >I do have a couple of suggestions though: >As well as email addresses, those that are willing to have their snail mail address included should be encouraged to do so. Email is still perceived as a rather transient thing, unlike snail-mail addresses. Including these would just lend a bit more weight to the seriousness of our 'petition'. I think you are right. Okay, for those who are willing to include it...send that info also. But best send it privately for your own protection! And for those who do not want to pass out their addresses, see iif they would be willing to add their home city, state (and country where necessary). Ok. Consider that added. This would be useful particularily as it would serve to show WWotC how wide spread their potential Mystara consumers actually are. You are right. >Secondly, you might want to post the body of the message to the RPG newsgroups to see if you can pick up any Mystara Lovers who aren't on the mailing list. I agree with you ...but I wonder if I might ask someone else to take care of this. I am ashamed to admit it but I have not yet figured out how those newsgroups work... I'd recommend NOT including the To: and Cc: information tthere though, and just ask parties interested in having their information added to the petition to contact you directly. Ok. It's better to send one >message with all the appropriately attached information than to end up with an accidental Mystara Spam sent to WotC! (Wouldn't *that* just impress them to no end? :-I ) I definitely agree. It will be more likely read too! >Thirdly, another useful bit of information to add to the message would be to mention a few of the web sites dedicated to Mystara, and to point out that there are many more -- despite the fact that it the world itself has been cancelled. Making WotC aware of how many people truly love Mystara certainly can't hurt. That is true. >Finally, I noticed one typo in your proposed letter: >>The experienced >>players had no reason to by the products and so the setting faltered. ^^^ >buy Ouch. I guess I should NOT mention that I am an English teacher... >Just say the word and I'll send you snail mail info privately. You can go ahead and add my name and email anyway. (Jenni A. M. Merrifield ) The word! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 15:43:11 -0600 From: "Cecil Cosman" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bleeding and Infection Responding to the message of Tue, 10 Mar 1998 07:02:49 EST from Inconu : ><< Not taking into >account things like bleeding and infection (two things AD&D does not really deal with), >> >Does anyone have bleeding and infection rules that they've created? AD&D did >make bleeding rules...but they weren't too thorough IIRC. I've never really >even considered infection rules to be honest, but it would make sense to add >something like that to my game. Anyone have ideas or rules that they use? >-Inconu Not only bleeding rules but I'd be interested in rules for broken bones, or various muscle tears and strains rules. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 22:25:38 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: [MYSTARA] - For Italian readers only Sorry everybody, I need e-mail adresses of all Italian members of this mailing list. Please reply me in private e-mail, DON'T REPLY TO THE LIST! Thanks. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 17:09:14 EST From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bleeding and Infection << DO YOU REALLY WANT ANYTHING LIKE THAT ???? >> Do you really have to waste a post like that????? - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 17:45:48 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's fate: our fault? On Tue, 10 Mar 1998, DM wrote: >Well, this all seems very strange to me, especially after all that's been said and done by TSR and WotC after the merger. I mean, they swore they'd never engage again in useless and hazardous product, and to cut the budget they closed some of the old lines like our beloved Mystara, Greyhawk and TSR cut those lines *BEFORE* the WoTC purchase began. I recall quite a stink raised regarding the cutting of Greyhawk back in '94, including some nasty trash-talking by Jim Ward, who put down everybody who liked Greyhawk as being less sophisticated than Forgotten Realms fans. If you're going to criticize, learn the facts first. >Dark Sun. they were even forced (but i don't think this is the right term...) to move their staff to the other coast of the continent, thus loosing many of their best employees. And all of this to cut the budget and Which "best employees"? The majority of the employees lost were management drones and the TSR "legal staff"--the same TSR "legal staff" Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 23:09:27 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #156 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 4e3d534ef12215d6baec97865dabb09c who recommended that any and all Web sites with TSR-game-related stuff on them be intimidated into oblivion. TSR no longer has that legal staff, thanks to the WoTC deal. >All this lines to say that to me TSR is not really doing what it promised, Try learning some reality before you spout. The bad decisions were made under the Dille dynasty. This is a different TSR. >but nevertheless we still don't have Mystara reopened. Why? Was it so profitless as a campaign line? Was it so unbearable from the economic point I'll tell you why. In 1994, there were a lot of VERY LOUD people demanding Greyhawk, to the point of setting up a 'netzine and personally bugging TSR about it on a regular basis. They put up quite a large presence on the TSR AOL area. Furthermore, there was a good amount of vocal upswelling in favor of returning Greyhawk. >Anyway, what i now ask myself and you is: might be that Mystara's cathaleptic state is our fault? It seems that TSR merged with WotC merely to exploit their better financial situation and get more funds to further its Huh? What planet are you getting your newsfeed from? TSR did not merge with WoTC. WoTC BOUGHT TSR completely. It was not a merger, it was an acquisition. TSR had gotten to the point of not even paying their printer! *That* is how incompetently managed TSR was. WoTC had the capital and bought the whole shebang. There was no merger. >projects (even the most absurd ones), so why cannot we jump on the train too and force them to reopen Mystara with new and fresh products? Where are we failing?... The failure lies in lack of talking directly to TSR, I'd say. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 17:51:41 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Firearms and Realism On Tue, 10 Mar 1998, Alex295 wrote: >True. No system is needed if you consider a gun to be an arrow or crossbow bolt. However, if you want to compensate for shock and such other means need I went into shock the first time I broke my arm--no body penetration, just a simple fall. Shock has nothing at all to do with the fact that a bullet is used. Shock is a matter of physiological response to injury--an injury that could be caused just as much by an arrow or a sword as by a bullet. Firearms did not dominate the battlefield because they were more powerful than previous weapons. They ended up dominating the battlefield because they were strategically cheaper. To train a longbowman, start with his grandson, same for a good pikeman. A gunner? Much less time necessary for a grunt gunner, although snipers I put in the "longbowman" category. The advent of reliable and fairly accurate pistols at a reasonable price (the flintlock pistol, mostly) saw a sharp increase in duelling in Europe. I put it down to the fact that one actually has to work to avoid embarassing yourself with a sword, but any idiot can take an afternoon and convince himself that he can handle a firearm. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 98 15:09:00 PST From: MichaelX Harvey Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's fate: our fault? >Ok. How about this...We compile a list of names/e-mail addresses(for purposes of verification) kinda like a petition. We attach the list to a letter and toss it WotC's way. [proposed letter deleted] If you want to do this, I'd suggest you go through a couple drafts and allow the "signers" to comment on it. One person should be the editor, draw up a draft and post it for comments; a second draft should then be drawn up incorporating the comments. This process can be continued as long as necessary to ensure adequate representation. Also, I'd strongly suggest you make up a nice printed version, and send copies personally to each TSR/WotC exec involved in the decision. I agree with Jenni that it would be best if signers include their snail mail addresses. Also, if each signer would also commit to sending individual email or snail mail it might be more impressive. If each person on this list would draft an individual letter requesting new Mystara material, have each person in your local RPG group sign it, and then send it via snail-mail to WotC/TSR it would look very good. This would increase the effective "demand" beyond the confines of the mailing list. It also wouldn't hurt to post an announcement to the rec.games.frp.dnd and rec.games.frp.announce describing this effort and encouraging people to support it. (Such an announcement should also point people to the large collection of web resources as well as the mailing list -- lots of people are interested in new worlds and might *become* interested in Mystara after getting a taste of it.) Honestly, I doubt a emailed petition with a couple dozen signatures is going to do much good. It is way too easy and costs you nothing. Anyone who has ever tried to run a PBEM knows that netizens are notoriously fickle, ready to promise anything but reluctant to deliver. I am sure WotC/TSR also realizes this. Spend a few cents on postage and show them you're willing to put some time, effort, and money into getting what you want. If there was some way to make TSR realize that you are a working person with money to spend, and that you actively buy up whatever Mystara material you can find in the used market, that would also be good. ------- There is an alternative as well. Small markets are bad because production costs are high; if production costs can be significantly reduced, TSR could profit from producing material for a narrow market. It costs TSR a lot of money to assign even *one* full-time designer to Mystara; salaries and offices aren't cheap. Perhaps they would be willing to work out an arrangement to make use of the energy and creativity of this mailing list. They could contract with members of the list to write books (or parts of books) on Mystara, and pay a small commission. All they'd need to do is run it past an editor and publish it. You folks could reap a small monetary reward for your hobby, but the real reward would be the satisfaction of seeing your own work in print. They might also consider doing what HERO games did and publish electonically using Acrobat. That drops production costs to almost nothing... Or maybe they'd sell the rights to Mystara (the world, not the D&D rules) to Steve Jackson. GURPS lacks a good fantasy setting, and SJG is known for publishing books for small markets. Mystara with its adaptations "real-world" cultures might appeal to GURPS fans, who seem to love parallel worlds. SJG could publish a Mystara book with GURPS Lite (suitably modified for cinematic action). Anyway, just some food for thought... Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 17:35:14 -0600 From: Patriarch@cmnwrld.com (Patriarch) Subject: Re(2): [MYSTARA] - Mystara's fate: our fault? jdaly@friend.ly.net,Internet writes: >At 12:56 PM 3/10/98 -0800, you wrote: >>At 01:29 PM 3/10/98 -0500, Daly wrote: OOOOk. How about this...We compile a list of names/e-mail addresses(for purposes of verification) kinda like a petition. We attach the list to aa >>>letter and toss it WotC's way. >>Great idea Jeff! Are you offering to be 'collector of the names'? >*blush* Thanks. I am glad you thought it was a good idea. >Sure. I will collect the names. I could have a junk email box collect e-mail support of names, info and messages for the cause! 70% of my company members play Mystara! It would not be a problem and would be supported here. Supporters could put a link to the email address from their Mystara pages and in news groups. When we were ready we could sift through the emails and collect the addresses and messages! We could have a 'SAVE MYSTARA' page 'FREE MYSTARA' for more information on what we were doing. I personally feel that in the future (after all the Mystara material is off the shelves and most of our material is old, tattered and needed to be replaced) TSR (WOTC) will republish Mystara. Not much will be changed for the first year or so. Once the new material proves its worth some new material will be published. And if we are lucky we just might snag a good writer or two this time for a few great novel series. Patriarch mailto:Patriarch@cmnwrld.com Where I net game http://CWSpot.com/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 20:10:38 -0500 From: brunciak@erols.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Fate of Mystara I'd just like to voice my opinions on this. First off, I love the petition idea! I was thinking of just before I read Daly's proposal. We should get ALL of the member's "signatures" and many, many, more. Secondly, I don't know how many people would want Mystara back. Some people have voiced their opinions that they would rather see a "Net-Mystara" than a TSR produced one. However, it would be nice to see Mystara be seen as an "Official" world. Lastly, I believe that the conversion of it into AD&D 2nd Edition Rules was its downfall. I used to play in other worlds until a friend said, "Hey Bob, there is this new world that TSR created called Mystara." I bought K:KoA and though tit a so-so product. Then I decided to do some research and found out the whole story all of this stuff for D&D! As a person who got into Mystara opposite than that of most Mystarans, I think I can say that TSR was just trying to make some money. Mystara didn't sink TSR, TSR sank Mystara. P.S. Anyone think that TSR purposely destroyed Mystara as a conspiracy to end D&D? ;:-| Bob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 20:13:46 -0500 From: brunciak@erols.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - (*Way* Off Topic) Jenni A. M. Merrifield wrote: >Hey there, to all the MML'ers! >I have some personal News that I just *had* to share with this wonderful group of individuals that I interact with so often: >I AM EXPECTING MY FIRST CHILD! >The baby is due September 18th, and now that I'm going into my second tri-mester we've (my husband and I) started telling people outside of our immediate family about our happy news. >Well, that's my News :-) Now back to your regularly scheduled Mystaraverse messages. Congratulations! Congratulations! Congratulations! Best wishes to you, your husband, and your child. September 18th is not a bad day to be born as far as my brother and I can say! Watch out, though, we were expected on the 8th!:-) Best Wishes and Good Luck! Bob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 20:15:17 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - (*Way* Off Topic) At 08:13 PM 3/10/98 -0500, you wrote: >Congratulations! Congratulations! Congratulations! >Best wishes to you, your husband, and your child. September 18th is not a bad day to be born as far as my brother and I can say! Watch out, though, we were expected on the 8th!:-) Ah, but by that logic the child could not be more fortunate, for September 28 is a banner date in history. For the Canadians on the list, go back to 1972 (if you were alive at the time) and remember Paul Henderson scoring the Goal. In even bigger news, I was born exactly two years earlier than the Goal. So cross your fingers and hope, Jenni; 10 days late is worth it in this case :-) Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 03:43:57 GMT From: cpb@gatewest.net (Chris Paul Billows) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - (*Way* Off Topic) Some Personal but Exciting News On Mon, 09 Mar 1998 13:32:54 -0800, you wrote: >Hey there, to all the MML'ers! >I have some personal News that I just *had* to share with this wonderful group of individuals that I interact with so often: >I AM EXPECTING MY FIRST CHILD! >The baby is due September 18th, and now that I'm going into my second tri-mester we've (my husband and I) started telling people outside of our immediate family about our happy news. >Well, that's my News :-) Now back to your regularly scheduled Mystaraverse messages. >Jenni A. M. Merrifield >-=> strawberryJAMM <=- Congratualtions! A joyful time... my wife and I have two children (2 1/2 and 8 mos) They are a source of amazement, frustration and tears. I best sum up parenting as a painful joy. Good luck on the delivery... they don't call it labor for nothing. __________________________________ | |\ | Chris Billows | | | Check out my Gaming Memoirs | | | www.gatewest.net/~cpb/gaming/ | | |_________________________________| | \_________________________________\| *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 22:04:35 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Tact [was Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's fate: our fault?] At 05:45 PM 3/10/98 -0500, bjm10@cornell.edu wrote: >If you're going to criticize, learn the facts first. Try learning some reality before you spout. Huh? What planet are you getting your newsfeed from? Oh, very nice. You know, I thought at first you offered some interesting suggestions and viewpoints. Now, anything you have to say is always overshadowed by the fact that you love to belittle people. Most of the members of the list here are too nice to ask you to learn manners. I'm not. So learn some or shut up. Make your comments without the added 'brain-dead' commentary. What DM stated were the facts as he thought they existed. The truth is they don't matter because that wasn't the purpose of his message and he certainly could have been corrected in a much kinder way. You went through the whole letter correcting and belittling only to add your insightful addition that Mystara fans didn't communicate their feelings to TSR correctly. And this isn't the first time you've done it. The 'Guns and Reality' also brought out your elitist attitudes and before that in the 'Mystara to AD&D' discussion. From your email address, it looks like there may be a library around there. How about finding a dictionary, look up tact and getting some. _____________________________________ This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #156 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, March 11 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 157 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bleeding and Infection Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's fate: our fault? Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's fate: our fault? Re: [MYSTARA] - The Fate of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Imperial Geopolitical Intelligence Re: [MYSTARA] - The Fate of Mystara [MYSTARA] - Thyatian Efficiency and Guilds Re: [MYSTARA] - The Fate of Mystara [MYSTARA] - (*Way* Off Topic) Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's fate: our fault? Re: [MYSTARA] - The Fate of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Holy symbols Re: [MYSTARA] - The Fate of Mystara [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] A new petition Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's fate: our fault? Re: [MYSTARA] - Bleeding and Infection Re: [MYSTARA] - The Fate of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Koruk Barbarossa or Rory Barbarossa Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] A new petition Re: [MYSTARA] - The Fate of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - The Fate of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] A new petition [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 23:35:22 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bleeding and Infection In a message dated 98-03-10 07:19:21 EST, Inconu@aol.com writes: >I've never really >even considered infection rules to be honest, but it would make sense to add >something like that to my game. Anyone have ideas or rules that they use? The 1st edition AD&D DMG had some complicated charts for disease and parasitic infestation, but they didn't include wounds as a factor. Maybe hits by "dirty" weapons should be considered equivalent in effect to giant rat bites? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 23:35:28 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's fate: our fault? In a message dated 98-03-10 18:01:32 EST, bjm10@cornell.edu writes: >Which "best employees"? Bruce Heard, for one. >The majority of the employees lost were mmanagement drones and the TSR "legal staff"--the same TSR "legal staff" who recommended that any and all Web sites with TSR-game-related stuff on them be intimidated into oblivion Yes, but the few losses among the creative types (see above) were quite serious. Also -- how "dead" was Mystara when TSR itself collapse late in 1996? I think the Greyhawk folks might have gotten a jump on us because their world was canned first. Or was it? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 23:35:32 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's fate: our fault? In a message dated 98-03-10 18:24:02 EST, MichaelX_Harvey@ccm.jf.intel.com writes: >Or maybe they'd sell the rights to Mystara (the world, not the D&D rrules) to Steve Jackson. GURPS lacks a good fantasy setting, and SJG is known for publishing books for small markets. Mystara with its adaptations "real-world" cultures might appeal to GURPS fans, who seem to love parallel worlds. SJG could publish a Mystara book with GURPS Lite (suitably modified for cinematic action). That would be an excellent idea -- especially if they explicitly give permission to make conversions between GURPS and D&D/AD&D (as a way to make older Mystara material usable with GURPS Mystara). I must admit that I have bought many GURPS supplements because of the interesting way they handle the background material -- I don't even play GURPS! But with a "GURPS Mystara" setting, I just might dig around for those rules. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 23:35:33 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Fate of Mystara In a message dated 98-03-10 20:21:36 EST, brunciak@erols.com writes: >P.S. Anyone think that TSR purposely destroyed Mystara as a conspiracy tto end D&D? ;:-| Yes. That is when they found out that the Immortals of Mystara are real and took their revenge by destroying TSR. ;) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 23:35:27 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Imperial Geopolitical Intelligence In a message dated 98-03-10 13:49:07 EST, Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk writes: >Does anyone know why the trail maps were stopped? I heard a long time aago that TSR didn't plan on making any more because they didn't sell well, but I would have thought they'd be very popular. I'm not sure -- they produced quite a few of them, so they might have thought there was nothing left to map. It would have been nice to see a Savage Coast Trail Map, though. Also -- did you notice that only the Known World Trail Maps had hexes on them? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 23:08:24 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Fate of Mystara At 11:35 PM 3/10/98 EST, you wrote: >>P.S. Anyone think that TSR purposely destroyed Mystara as a conspiracy ttto end D&D? ;:-| >Yes. That is when they found out that the Immortals of Mystara are real and took their revenge by destroying TSR. ;) Oh, that was a good one! ;) Seriously, I do think Mystara was a casualty of war in the death of D&D. Just so they could focus on only one rule system. Of course, now we have two new ones: SAGA and Alternity. _____________________________________ This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 01:21:47 -0500 From: brunciak@erols.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Thyatian Efficiency and Guilds Hello All Once Again! I recently bought the Minrothad Guilds Gazetter (Yeah! only one left to collect!) and was pleased with the info on guilds that it provided. Along with the Republic of Darokin Gazetter, (it's really not that bad) I started to take an interest in business and economics of the Known World. Where is this going? Well, I've been reading a book on the Byzantine Empire and its economic layout. When it came to efficiency in business, the Byzantine's were the ones to see. Anyway, I started to think about Thyatis and the empire's love of efficiency and order. Considering that the Thyatian economy is strong (or was depending on what era you're in), I thought about the way the goverment controls the economy. Going on the assumption that the Thyatian Empire is a sort of Mystaran Byzantine Empire, I decided that the goverment controls the economy very strictly. Let me cut to the chase. The Byzantine Empire had a strictly controlled economy, this included guilds. The Emipre printed a document known as the BOOK OF THE EPARCH which set rules for guilds. It was in fact so strict that some of the penalties were very cruel. For instance, "No innkeeper was allowed to sell drink in vessels which did not bear the official stamp giving the correct measure; if he did; and was caught, he could be flogged, shaved, and expelled from the guild." Now I've decided to make a sort of Book of the Eparch for the Thyatian Empire which would detail and set rules for the various guilds of the empire. What I'd like from list members are ideas for rules and penalties like the one above. A rule I came up with is-Any blacksmith found forging weapons without documentation authorizing him to do so is subject to imprisonment, fines, and confiscation of property. Also, each craft had its specific duties-An armourer would make leather armour but not anything else out of leather. A leatherworker could make anything out of leather except armour and could not process raw leather either. I hope to flesh out Thyatis because DotE left a great deal out. Well that's it-PLEASE, I need feedback and some ideas to make this a group effort. Thanks! Bob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 01:50:40 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Fate of Mystara In a message dated 98-03-11 00:24:44 EST, galwylin@airnet.net writes: >Seriously, I do think Mystara was a casualty of war in the death of D&D. JJust so they could focus on only one rule system. Of course, now we have two new ones: SAGA and Alternity. Anyone want to bet that Krynn gets trashed when TSR gives up on SAGA? Alternatively -- maybe that would be a good system to bring back Mystara under? It could hardly be worse than what they did with it under AD&D. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 01:57:18 -0500 From: brunciak@erols.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - (*Way* Off Topic) Glen Sprigg wrote: Ah, but by that logic the child could not be more fortunate, for September 28 is a banner date in history. For the Canadians on the list, go back to 1972 (if you were alive at the time) and remember Paul Henderson scoring the Goal. In even bigger news, I was born exactly two years earlier than the Goal. So cross your fingers and hope, Jenni; 10 days late is worth it in this case :-) I wrote: Well, I'm not Canadian nor was I alive at the time but I know what you mean. I'm glad Hockey is the only sport I'm really into. The only thing that I think Americans can relate this to is The Miracle on Ice of 1980 (do you believe in miracles?:-)) but the feelings Americans have for this pales in comparison to what Canadians have for THE GOAL (at least the Canadians I've met). In an attempt to keep every post Mystaran relevant, I was wondering about ice skates and ice sports and their development in Mystara. The Hollow World boxed-set has a picture of elves playing in the snow but I don't think they're skating. Also, what about ice hockey? Anyone seeing it being developed in regions of Mystara? Lastly, are there any stories like the one's above dealing with Hardball? I see a Hardball scenario like 1972 or even at the World Games. Imagine Karameikos beating NACE; boy that'd heart-breaking for those folks. Bob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 19:07:53 +0100 From: Peter Balazs Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's fate: our fault? Hi! >Ok. How about this...We compile a list of names/e-mail addresses(for purposes of verification) kinda like a petition. We attach the list to a letter and toss it WotC's way. I like the tone of your letter, and I think it gets the message across! I am completly for it! >As well as email addresses, those that are willing to have their snail mail address included should be encouraged to do so. Email is still perceived as a rather transient thing, unlike snail-mail addresses. Good idea, I´m willing to give my adress, which can be seen in my signature! >Secondly, you might want to post the body of the message to the RPG newsgroups to see if you can pick up any Mystara Lovers who aren't on the mailing list. I'd recommend NOT including the To: and Cc: information there though, and just ask parties interested in having their information added to the petition to contact you directly. It's better to send one message with all the appropriately attached information than to end up with an accidental Mystara Spam sent to WotC! (Wouldn't *that* just impress them to no end? :-I ) Very good idea, both the spamming and the gathering part. We should also try to find some people personally, for example I will ask all my roleplaying friends, if they would be willing to support this idea. ************************************************************ Peter "Mr. XXL" Balazs Wurlitzerg. 37/12 1160 Wien 9003307@unet.univie.ac.at http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs ************************************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 02:23:02 +0000 From: "Galwylin" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Fate of Mystara On 11 Mar 98 at 1:50, Kaviyd wrote: >Anyone want to bet that Krynn gets trashed when TSR gives up on SAGA? Alternatively -- maybe that would be a good system to bring back Mystara under? It could hardly be worse than what they did with it under AD&D. Trashed again? That would kill it to me, for certain. I haven't looked very closely at Alternity but since we already know SAGA works with a fantasy setting maybe it will catch on and they decide to launch another setting under it. Mystara's the only one left, isn't it? ____________________________________ This has been a Galwylinc Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 05:49:27 +0000 From: "Terari" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Holy symbols In the current DRAGON magazin #246, the Sage Advice column talks about holy symbols. It stated that a little of the god's power resides in them and that anyone can use them to keep undead back. Only clerics with the turning ability can turn them though and they channel the ability through the symbol. Does that help understanding their uses? ______ Terari terari@geocities.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 13:04:14 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Fate of Mystara On Wed, 11 Mar 1998, Galwylin wrote: >On 11 Mar 98 at 1:50, Kaviyd wrote: >>Anyone want to bet that Krynn gets trashed when TSR gives up on SAGA? Alternatively -- maybe that would be a good system to bring back Mystara under? It could hardly be worse than what they did with it under AD&D. >Trashed again? That would kill it to me, for certain. I haven't looked very closely at Alternity but since we already know SAGA works with a fantasy setting maybe it will catch on and they decide to launch another setting under it. Mystara's the only one left, isn't it? I think reviving Mystara with SAGA would be a good idea. I´ve been poding on this myself. While the SAGA system certainly is not flawless, I hope that TSR will succeed with this novel idea in gaming. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 08:54:26 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #157 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 30bbd9fe630b1f945965b64b3fd0a867 Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 07:07:56 EST From: Inconu Subject: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] A new petition << You went through the whole letter correcting and belittling only to add your insightful addition that Mystara fans didn't communicate their feelings to TSR correctly. And this isn't the first time you've done it. >> I'm glad to know others feel the same way as i do. I have to grit my teeth and try not to respond to just about every post this guy makes. The petition idea for Mystara is great, but i think first we should all petition Leroy to get this guy outta here if he can't make one post without hitting someone with a derogatory comment. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 13:07:34 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's fate: our fault? On Tue, 10 Mar 1998, Kaviyd wrote: >That would be an excellent idea -- especially if they explicitly give permission >to make conversions between GURPS and D&D/AD&D (as a way to make older Mystara material usable with GURPS Mystara). I must admit that I have bought many GURPS supplements because of the interesting way they handle the background material -- I don't even play GURPS! But with a "GURPS Mystara" setting, I just might dig around for those rules. Official GURPS Mystara would be great. I´ve had litle trouble converting My mystara campaign into GURPS so fans of the xD&D system could easily go the other way if they wanted to. The important thing would be that we´d get more Mystara products and certainly a lot more web support. Anyone seen SJGames website? Excellent piece of work Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 07:11:06 EST From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bleeding and Infection << Maybe hits by "dirty" weapons should be considered equivalent in effect to giant rat bites? >> I was thinking some of those old, dull, rust-tainted swords from the broken lands may do less damage, but should be carrying something with it. Of course not all of them, but perhaps some would be able to cause minor/major disease or poison-like effects. It would make sense. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 07:16:34 EST From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Fate of Mystara << Seriously, I do think Mystara was a casualty of war in the death of D&D. Just so they could focus on only one rule system >> I think you're right, but if WOTC decides to bring back Mystara, it will probably be AD&D. OD&D's death was permanent i believe, but Mystara may not be. It may not be as good as a Mystara from the past, but any Mystara to me now is a good one. I don't care if they create a whole new map, new rules system, new countries, and new NPCs all to replace the old. As long as i can buy something that says "Mystara" on it....I'll be happy..... Okay, maybe i'm a little too desperate now.... ;Þ - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 12:57:02 +0100 From: "Tomás Sánchez" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Koruk Barbarossa or Rory Barbarossa Matthew Levy wrote: >Tomas, >Sorry if I came across harshly. I have always enjoyed our discussions of Mystara and I didn't mean to shout you down. I do think it is not *necessary* that Rory Barbarossa be based on Koruk Barbarossa, but I do also understand your reasoning and respect your right to your own opinion. The name "Rory" I remember hearing as associated with the Irish, but I can't give you any specific source (sorry). Don't worry anymore. I supposed you were a little nervous by those exams you told me about. Anyway, if you ever feel bad please remember i'm here by your side, no matter if you're in a good or a bad mood. I'll gladly listen to you. I consider you a friend. OK ? :) >I always thought Hule was based on Iran. >the picture of Hosadus on X4 looked vaguely like the Ayatollah (who was an important villain for American propaganda at the time). But the culture and language of Hule as later elaborated by Bruce Heard are closer to Turkey than anything else. True. One other arguement which have heavily influencted my opinion was the religious governemnt reflected on the hule gazetteer. It really resembled the idea i had of Iran. >>Isle of Dawn >>In general, the nations along the eastern shore have been kingdoms of the Alphatian Empire, while the regions of the western shore have been provinces of Thyatis. >how do you apply this to Caerdwicca? its neither a nation nor a kingdom, and it's on the southern shore. :) He, he, he. PWAII page 42 says << it has been traditionally allied with thyatis >>. The PWA spoke about eastern and western shores so i guess they divided the island in two shares. No south shore was mentioned. Nice try. :) Tomás Sánchez Jr deckard@encomix.es #ICQ 9190040 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 06:44:13 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] A new petition Well, I was successful in getting one name from TSR Live tonight and also letting some know that the Hollow World is a part of Mystara. I got the name, address and email. That's what we needed, correct? I'll send that ahead as soon as I go back through my messages to see who's compiling the list of names (or you could just let me know). Not much, but its a start. _____________________________________ This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 06:39:21 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Fate of Mystara At 01:04 PM 3/11/98 +0100, Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: >I think reviving Mystara with SAGA would be a good idea. I´ve been poding on this myself. While the SAGA system certainly is not flawless, I hope that TSR will succeed with this novel idea in gaming. I hope they succeed with SAGA also. The industry can only benefit with many different formats. One thing I've like about the Dragonlance products so far is that they're part rule book, part sourcebook and include an adventure. Not bad for twenty dollars these days. Even if you didn't use that rule system, the information is a wonderful addition. _____________________________________ This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 06:56:13 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Fate of Mystara At 07:16 AM 3/11/98 EST, you wrote: >I think you're right, but if WOTC decides to bring back Mystara, it will probably be AD&D. OD&D's death was permanent i believe, but Mystara may not be. It may not be as good as a Mystara from the past, but any Mystara to me now is a good one. I don't care if they create a whole new map, new rules system, new countries, and new NPCs all to replace the old. As long as i can buy something that says "Mystara" on it....I'll be happy..... >Okay, maybe i'm a little too desperate now.... ;Þ Boy, I thought I was going have to use a little greek fire there for a minute. Good thing you added that last line ;> Yep, I think OD&D death is pretty sealed up. The corpse has probably already rotten too much to ever revive it even with Immortal magic. I would like to see those 'new' countries though (Wendar for example) and I've already stated new rules would be fine too. If they do go with new rules, I hope they use the WotI as the jumping point even though I'm passed it and the almanacs are dated after it (maybe source material to incorporate into them). They used the Time of Troubles in FR to introduce AD&D 2nd Edition and the Chaos War in DL to bring in SAGA so it would make sense to use a world shaking event to do the same with Mystara. But I'd rather them rewrite history rather than have another. Once ever couple thousand years is plenty. _____________________________________ This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 08:21:13 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] A new petition At 07:07 AM 3/11/98 EST, you wrote: ><try not to respond to just about every post this guy makes. The petition idea for Mystara is great, but i think first we should all petition Leroy to get this guy outta here if he can't make one post without hitting someone with a derogatory comment. This of course is a seperate issue entirely. I understand the emotion behind your message but I believe we should all, as a roleplaying family, "speak" with each other in a spirit of gentility and respect. Unless you say otherwise, I am going to assume it is okay to include your e-mail address in the letter. Let me know in a private message your real name and address if you would be so kind. Thanks! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 14:53:11 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Adapting AD&D to Mystara. I don´t use AD&D in my Mystara campaign and I dont intend to do so either. Nevertheless, I have had some thoughts on the matter. Note that some of the information below contradicts information given in AD&D products for Mystara. The following is my own opinion only. 1. Alignment Keep in mind that Mystara was created with a system using only the law/chaos axis of the alignment system. Adding another layer (good/evil) can create undesired effects. TSR seemed to have this problem in their AD&D products. Ie Jaggar von Drachenfels became Lawful Evil, which contradicts most peoples opinion of that NPC. As a final comment on this issue, I personally suggest that you remove Alignments from the game altogether and have your players create personalities instead. 2. Classes 2.1. Warrior: Fighter: no changes from the standard AD&D system. Paladin: There are no Paladins on Mystara. If you want to use them, I recommend that you create individual kits for followers of the various Immortals. Alternately you can have fighter PCs given certain abilities if the chose to devote their lives to an Immortal. Ranger: Rangers replace the D&D Foresters described in the Dawn of the Emperors, boxed set. In the known World they are usually only found near elven settlements in Thyatis. Foresters are humans who seek to learn the elven ways. Consider giving Rangers spells from the selection of the Elven Sorceror kit, mentioned later in this article. 2.2 Cleric Cleric: No changes from the AD&D standard Speciality Priests: I would suggest that these are far more common that clerics. Shawn Stanley has more info on the what benefits each religion has on his Homepage. Druids: There are no Druids in the Known World. There are druids in Robrenn on the Savage coast and there might be druids in the Hollow World. 2.3 Mage Mage: No change from the normal AD&D rules. Specialist Wizard: There are no such on Mystara. If you want to play a necromancer, get your mage character involved with the Secret Craft of Necromancy in Glantri. 2.4 Rogue Thief:No changes from the AD&D standard rules. Bard: Can be used normally. I generally think that they have too much spell power though. Maybe this should be limited. Darokin Mercheant could be a Bard kit. 2.5 Psionicist If they exist they replace the D&D Mystics. They exist in the mountains of Glantri, on the Isle of Dawn and in Sind. They are warrior monks and should learn appropriate proficiencies for such people. 3. Races 3.1 Human Use the AD&D standard rules. 3.2 Dwarf Use the Standard AD&D rules. 3.3 Elf All elves in Mystara know some magic. I dont know how to simulate this in the AD&D game. Perhaps the players option books could be used to allow each elf character to know at least one school of magic. If not you can create a Fighter/Mage kit called Elven Sorceror, who are able to cast some druid spells in addition to what a normal mage can. Half elves: There are no Halfelves on Mystara. They are the stuff of legends. Human and Elf relationships can result in pregnancy but the children will be either human or elf with only a few traits of the other race. The same is the case for Half orcs, who are quite common in Darokin. 3.4 Gnome I suggest that you use those presented in the Players Handbook. They are quite different from the ones described in Top Baslista, but that may be just as well. Keep in mind that gnomes are not a major race on Mystara. 3.5 Halflings They refer to themselves as Hin. There are no Hairfoots, Stouts, or Tallfellows on Mystara. The Hin all have Infravision and the Resistance ability of Stouts. 4. Magic Spells work as described in the standard AD&D rules. Magical Items are quite common. Immortals are described on Shawn Stanleys page. Mages do not refer to spells by the name of the creator. Especially if the creator is not from Mystara. ie, Nystul, Bigby etc. More info on this can be found in the Glantri Kingdom of Magic, boxed set. Comments are encouraged. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #157 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, March 11 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 158 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Equinoxes, Moon Cycles, calendars and such Re: [MYSTARA] - Imperial Geopolitical Intelligence Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara [MYSTARA] - Combat situations Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's fate and the Petition Re: [MYSTARA] - The Fate of Mystara [MYSTARA] - Petition to TSR re: Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Combat situations Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's fate and the Petition Re: [MYSTARA] - (*Way* Off Topic) Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: Tact [was Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's fate: our fault?] [MYSTARA] - READ THIS -- Tact and Such Re: [MYSTARA] - Firearms and Realism ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 15:07:56 +0100 From: Ezio Pignatelli Subject: [MYSTARA] - Equinoxes, Moon Cycles, calendars and such I am not sure that my last message was posted to the list, so i'll send it for the third time. Please excuse duplicates. - --------------------------------------------------------------------- Someone, in a message I lost, noticed that the moon cycles in PC4 had no sense, if compared with other sources. In a message dated 98-03-07 18:39:37 EST, scy2g@watt.seas.virginia.edu writes: >How about just say the sky shield distort the moon visual position weirdly? It is a bit more simpler than add another moon. On Sat, 7 Mar 1998 23:36:39 Kaviyd wrote: >That might work -- but the effect has to be one that only operates on objects that are relatively close to Mystara. Note that more distant bodies such as the sun and the stars are not affected by this optical distortion. Not exactly. A couple of days ago we found a similar problem with equinoxes... I am putting here again the results for reference 9sorry, I forgot who wroten them): >Check out PWA II (1011) in the section on the Mystaran Year; after the calendars, there is a list (like the current events) of all the festivals and holidays; the Solstices and Equinoxes are in there. >Thaumont 1: Spring Equinox >Klarmont 1: Summer Solstice >Ambyrmont 1: Autumn Equinox >Kaldmont 1: Winter Solstice >The Glantri Gazetteer (earlier source) gives them roughly two months earlier: >Spring Equinox: Nuwmont 2 >Summer Solstice: Flaurmont 1 >Fall Equinox: Felmont 1 >Winter Solstice: Sviftmont 1 >My guess is that when Bruce Heard wrote GAZ3 he was thinking of a March-type new year for Glantri rather than a January-type. The other events also back this up, e.g. Spring Break in Nuwmont. IMC I shift all the dates in Glantri forward by two months (except for Alexander Day and the Day of Dread) to bring them into line with the other gazetteers.) Both the discrepancies (moon cycles and equinoxes) could be solved by assuming that the skyshield is distorting the light in a "ad hoc" way. Ezio Pignatelli - Department of Astronomy - Padova (Italy) Tel: +39-49-8293459 - Fax: +39-49-8759840 mailto:epignat@leda.pd.astro.it http://leda.pd.astro.it/~epignat - -- P.S. By the way: did anyone noticed that the calendar in B10 strongly disagrees with ANY other source... having monthes of a different amount of days than the usual 28? P.P.S Visit my Mystara home page: http://leda.pd.astro.it/~epignat/dnd/ Basically it will just keep the journal of the adventures of my group. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 09:27:31 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Imperial Geopolitical Intelligence At 11:35 PM 3/10/98 EST, you wrote: >I'm not sure -- they produced quite a few of them, so they might have thought there was nothing left to map. It would have been nice to see a Savage Coast Trail Map, though. >Also -- did you notice that only the Known World Trail Maps had hexes on them? The Trail Maps were collections of the maps they had produced for their settings; the Forgotten Realms/Kara-Tur and Krynn areas didn't have hex maps in the original products, so they didn't hex them for the Trail Maps. The Mystaran maps are taken directly from the Gazetteers, with only slight errata corrections. I don't think the products sold very well, so they canned the line. The Savage coast hadn't been developed yet. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 09:41:12 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara At 02:53 PM 3/11/98 +0100, you wrote: >Keep in mind that Mystara was created with a system using only the law/chaos axis of the alignment system. Adding another layer (good/evil) can create undesired effects. TSR seemed to have this problem in their AD&D products. Ie Jaggar von Drachenfels became Lawful Evil, which contradicts most peoples opinion of that NPC. As a final comment on this issue, I personally suggest that you remove Alignments from the game altogether and have your players create personalities instead. Well...I started with the blue book rules and have continued using the larger alignment system ever since. Although, the expert set was the very next rules system I bought and I used the Karameikan setting... I too am dissatisfied with alignment in general and see it only as a guideline. In other words, to use an extreme example, if a paladin walks up to an orc in the middle of town and starts picking a fight (even if say he is trying to get the orc to swing first) that is a breach of alignment. This is especially important in cases where I judge the player to be attempting to merely gain a few easy experience points or treasure. >2. Classes >2.1. Warrior: >Fighter: no changes from the standard AD&D system. Paladin: There are no Paladins on Mystara. If you want to use them, I recommend that you create individual kits for followers of the various Immortals. Alternately you can have fighter PCs given certain abilities if the chose to devote their lives to an Immortal. Paladins should exist in Mystara since they have always been there. >Ranger: Rangers replace the D&D Foresters described in the Dawn of the Emperors, boxed set. In the known World they are usually only found near elven settlements in Thyatis. Foresters are humans who seek to learn the elven ways. Consider giving Rangers spells from the selection of the Elven Sorceror kit, mentioned later in this article. Ok. Rangers can replace them rulewise but lets keep the name "Forester". >Thief:No changes from the AD&D standard rules. Bard: Can be used normally. I generally think that they have too much spell power though. Maybe this should be limited. Darokin Mercheant could be a Bard kit. Naw, merchants don't really have anything to do with music...necessarily. >2.5 Psionicist >If they exist they replace the D&D Mystics. Nothing can replace the mystic! They exist in the mountains of >Glantri, on the Isle of Dawn and in Sind. They are warrior monks and should learn appropriate proficiencies for such people. I like keeping psionics out of the picture...until introduced in a foreign manner. In other words, perhaps it develops in response to an invasion of some kind. >4. Magic >Spells work as described in the standard AD&D rules. Magical Items are quite common. Immortals are described on Shawn Stanleys page. Mages do not refer to spells by the name of the creator. Especially if the creator is not from Mystara. ie, Nystul, Bigby etc. More info on this can be found in the Glantri Kingdom of Magic, boxed set. I think you are right to disclude any AD&D spells that have specific creators, but I enjoy slapping say, Eriadna's Bone Wish into any game. Gives it flavor. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 15:44:28 +0100 From: Lorenzo Subject: [MYSTARA] - Combat situations I'd like to ask your opinion on a matter that has been procuring me some trouble for a while. We assume that a combat round is equal to about 10 seconds of real time. Now, in a round, our fighter attacks with the sword, our elf shoots an arrow and the mage casts a spell. But 10 secs are needed to deliver a sword blow ? Someone said that during a combat round the fighter does not swings only once at his opponent, but they fight with attacks and parries until one of the two can hit (as Highlander movies have accustomed us to see). Well, if this is OK, how do you handle a combat situations that involves a fighter and a spellcaster ? Until the latter has completed the casting, the former already had the opportunity to slice him down (10 long seconds). I wonder ... how do you avoid the problem in your campaigns ? You may say that AD&D is not so realistic, but imagining the situation in a "realistic-cinematografic" way helps much and such situations cannot be neglected. Lorenzo. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 09:52:57 EST From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's fate and the Petition It is true that the GreyHawk crowd petitioned loudly for the return of their setting. Ad on the AOL TSR area, the GH sections was really active. I like the idea of sending a petition. When the buyout annauncement was areleased on AOL, efforts were made to email TSR as well as WotC to consider Mystara. I did this as well as many others. One thing that I noted in my mail was the issue of OOP material. In my opinion, what would be a greater way for a company to pick up some quick bucks than to reissue Mystara materials such as the Gazs. Little production cost. Heck, they have all of those Gazs archived. Might as well use them. Such a reissue would do much for Mystara. As mentioned, just about all gamers know something of Mystara. Whether it is the solo adventure in the Red Basic Box or whatever. WotC should play upon that nostalgia. The 80s era is making a comeback in terms of nostalgia and collectables. As for the petition's content, there are a few things that need to be added. First, it should be pointed out that the Mystara crowd are heavily into the setting itself. Details, histories, and plots should give them the idea that we Mystarans are not beginners. No beginner would exert as much effort in developing a setting.Just because Mystara brings images of "basic old D&D" it is not to say that we are basic in our gaming. Second, the subject of reissuing out of print materials. Sure you look at some of the online stores and see numerous Ierendi Gazs. But try to find an Alfhiem or Glantri Gaz. Third, the game rules are not exactly a priority. D&D, AD&D, GURPs, etc, etc are used as needed. Focus on the setting material. Perhaps the big block to reviving Mystara is that it is assumable that D&D must also be revived. If the D&D obstacle is removed, reissue and revitalation could be more easily attained. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 09:48:13 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Fate of Mystara At 06:56 AM 3/11/98 -0600, you wrote: >If they do go with new rules, I hope they use the WotI as the jumping point even though I'm passed it and the almanacs are dated after it (maybe source material to incorporate into them). They used the Time of Troubles in FR to introduce AD&D 2nd Edition and the Chaos War in DL to bring in SAGA so it would make sense to use a world shaking event to do the same with Mystara. But I'd rather them rewrite history rather than have another. Once ever couple thousand years is plenty. Well, they didn't quite do the same thing as they did with the Avatar in FR, but WotI was certainly world-shaking enough, wasn't it? The first two Almanacs were DD& rules-based, but the third was AD&D; why not use WotI as the breaking point? There were certainly several major changes to the setting, and not just the geographical ones. The transformation of the Nucleus of the Spheres could have affected magic even more profoundly (changing the system to AD&D); Immortals of nature could give some of their fighters ranger abilities, and make some of their clerics into druids; etc. Quite frankly, another world-shattering saga less than ten years after Wrath would probably have most people packing up and moving to Ravenloft to get away from it all :-) As for the SAGA system, I haven't played it, don't know much about it, and am not interested in it; I want Mystara in a D&D/AD&D environment. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 09:57:02 -0500 From: Daly Subject: [MYSTARA] - Petition to TSR re: Mystara Hail and well met fellow Mystarans, Please read and comment constructively on the letter that follows. The purpose of the letter is to demonstrate for WotC the powerful following Mystara has and to encourage them to resurrect Mystara as a setting. If you do agree with this noble goal please e-mail me privately (jdaly@friend.ly.net) with your name and e-mail address. I would strongly suggest including your "snail mail" address too as this would lend a seriousness to the letter. The more ways WotC has to verify the information the better. But if you are unwilling to include your address then please consider simply your city and country. They will certainly be keeping track of demographics. Jenni Merrifield is going to post to the newsgroups and update me with a list of names from there. If you all could speak privately with the people in your playing groups, work groups, and with whatever other people you know who would be interested, I believe we can have an impressive impact. Send me their names, e-mail addresses, and snail mail addresses. I am shooting for a deadline of March 31st to send off the letter. Just by way of update, I currently have 12 names and addresses! Dear sirs, As the faithful consumers of the Mystaran product line, we would like to see the setting return either as a full line or as an independent accessory. We are aware that Wizards of the Coast does not currently believe they can successfully present any material based in Mystara. However it is our firm belief that Mystara's earlier sales are more reflective of the then current attempt to direct the setting toward beginning players. The experienced players had no reason to buy the products and so the setting faltered. A small but strong "test product" would be supported by all those signed here. We fervently hope you consider this. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 08:54:19 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara At 02:53 PM 3/11/98 +0100, Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: >Adapting AD&D to Mystara. >I don´t use AD&D in my Mystara campaign and I dont intend to do so either. Nevertheless, I have had some thoughts on the matter. Note that some of the information below contradicts information given in AD&D products for Mystara. The following is my own opinion only. This looks very interesting. Sorry I don't have time to go into a discussion with it at the moment (I'd really like to and have a few ideas I'd like to inject here or there) but its time for me to get some sleep. Just wanted to say I liked some of your thoughts and to say contradicting AD&D is the only way to go! Talk with you later about it. _____________________________________ This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 09:57:36 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara At 02:53 PM 3/11/98 +0100, you wrote: >1. Alignment >Keep in mind that Mystara was created with a system using only the law/chaos axis of the alignment system. Adding another layer (good/evil) can create undesired effects. TSR seemed to have this problem in their AD&D products. Ie Jaggar von Drachenfels became Lawful Evil, which contradicts most peoples opinion of that NPC. Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 12:06:25 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #158 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: c105954b580f459018b365fa03cbf56b >As a final comment on this issue, I personally suggest that you remove Alignments from the game altogether and have your players create personalities instead. I would make Jaggar von D. Lawful Neutral; I think that alignment fits him better. Remember than although there are 9 alignments, there is a lot of flexibility within those alignments. >Paladin: There are no Paladins on Mystara. If you want to use them, I recommend that you create individual kits for followers of the various Immortals. Alternately you can have fighter PCs given certain abilities if the chose to devote their lives to an Immortal. No paladins in Mystara? Check the Rules Cyclopedia again; they're in there, all right. You don't START as a paladin, but you can become one. >Druids: There are no Druids in the Known World. There are druids in Robrenn on the Savage coast and there might be druids in the Hollow World. See paladins, above. There are druids on Mystara. >2.3 Mage >Mage: No change from the normal AD&D rules. Specialist Wizard: There are no such on Mystara. If you want to play a necromancer, get your mage character involved with the Secret Craft of Necromancy in Glantri. In my previous post I mentioned the altering of the Nucleus of the Spheres. Why not have that alteration enable mages to specialize? >2.4 Rogue >Thief:No changes from the AD&D standard rules. Bard: Can be used normally. I generally think that they have too much spell power though. Maybe this should be limited. Darokin Mercheant could be a Bard kit. That last point is interesting; on the other hand, Merchants could become a kit usable by any class, or a multi-class option for all races including humans. >2.5 Psionicist >If they exist they replace the D&D Mystics. They exist in the mountains of Glantri, on the Isle of Dawn and in Sind. They are warrior monks and should learn appropriate proficiencies for such people. I hate psionics and don't use it, so I won't comment. >3. Races >3.3 Elf >All elves in Mystara know some magic. I dont know how to simulate this in the AD&D game. Perhaps the players option books could be used to allow each elf character to know at least one school of magic. If not you can create a Fighter/Mage kit called Elven Sorceror, who are able to cast some druid spells in addition to what a normal mage can. Again, have the Nucleus of the Spheres alter elves to the point where not all of them can cast spells. >3.4 Gnome >I suggest that you use those presented in the Players Handbook. They are quite different from the ones described in Top Baslista, but that may be just as well. Keep in mind that gnomes are not a major race on Mystara. Gnomes do exist in several areas of Mystara, although they are not, as you said, a major player. But they are around. All in all, some good ideas here. A Mystara to AD&D conversion can work and be playable (WHIZZ!! Hah! Ducked!) with a little effort. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 10:26:22 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Combat situations On Sun, 10 Mar 1996, Lorenzo wrote: >a fighter and a spellcaster ? Until the latter has completed the casting, the former already had the opportunity to slice him down (10 long seconds). But said fighter has to wend his way through all the glittery cinematographic special effects that surround a spellcaster. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 10:28:01 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's fate and the Petition I would say that Mystara would best be served with a rule-less, high detail and high background release. Remove any and all references to rules in the main body and put notes for adapting matters to various game rules in appendices. Mavra was always a big fan of "multi-system" designs, after all... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 10:31:02 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - (*Way* Off Topic) Enjoy your pregnancy while you can. Make sure your husband learns to like moving everything you need moved and doing whatever chores need to be done--in your latter months, mobility will be quite a challenge. I hope you don't much believe in sleeping regularly. (Our second son is currently two months old--sleep is for daytime, as far as he is concerned.) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 10:31:06 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara At 09:57 AM 3/11/98 -0500, you wrote: >At 02:53 PM 3/11/98 +0100, you wrote: >>1. Alignment >>Keep in mind that Mystara was created with a system using only the law/chaos axis of the alignment system. Adding another layer (good/evil) can create undesired effects. TSR seemed to have this problem in their AD&D products. Ie Jaggar von Drachenfels became Lawful Evil, which contradicts most peoples opinion of that NPC. As a final comment on this issue, I personally suggest that you remove Alignments from the game altogether and have your players create personalities instead. >I would make Jaggar von D. Lawful Neutral; I think that alignment fits him better. Remember than although there are 9 alignments, there is a lot of flexibility within those alignments. But with good tendencies. I see Jaggar as a primarily good character. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 10:31:31 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: Tact [was Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's fate: our fault?] Maybe it's just because the list is inhabited by weaklings and crybabies... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 07:46:57 -0800 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: [MYSTARA] - READ THIS -- Tact and Such At 07:07 AM 3/11/98 EST, Inconu wrote: >At 22:04 3/10/98 -0600, Galwylin said: ><< You went through the whole letter correcting and belittling only to aadd your insightful addition that Mystara fans didn't communicate their feelings to TSR correctly. And this isn't the first time you've done it. >> >I'm glad to know others feel the same way as i do. I have to grit my teeth and try not to respond to just about every post this guy makes. [...snip...] Hey, hey, hey! First, when you're asking someone to have some tact, you need to use it yourself. Anyone else who responds to this thread needs to keep his flame thrower in the safety position (i.e., don't use it, and don't troll for someone elses). This thread has the greatest chance of turning into a flame war, so everyone keep your thoughts controlled before responding (and I suspect that there are too many individuals who want to respond to this with an emotional outburst -- Galwylin may have opened the floodgates) Second, I suspect that Galwylin has hit a nerve that no one else was willing to pinch. This list is usually full of very thoughful, interesting, commentary on Mystara and the D&D game, but lately the level of antagonism arrising during several debates has risen significantly. I have to admit that I agree with Iconu -- there have been many, many times that I've wanted to send a comment to "bjm10@cornell.edu" (whose real name is still a mystery) but have, instead, kept that inside, hoping that the tone of his replies would mellow out -- and a few have been fairly reasonable, so I know he's capable of it. I, for one, prefer mature debate and discussion, where each side recognizes and respects the differences of opinions between each participant. Mudslinging and Flame throwing is ridiculous, immature and definitly degrades the worth of any mailing list by reducing the "Signal to Noise" ratio. There are a few other newcommers who tend to put down what others have said. Since Galwylin has named one name, I will name another: Jumunga Khan tends to send messages like the one with nothing but his incredulous exclamation wondering why anyone would want to use infection rules in their campagin. This sort of message is, in my opinion, just as unacceptable as the longer, belitting tirades of "bjm10" -- not only does it waste bandwidth since no really useful information has been added to the discussion, it also sends out an 'implied' message that is much the same as the explicit belitting that "bjm10" makes -- Jumunga is saying he thinks that the original writer is stupid, crazy or both. In general, people don't like to be told they are dumb or stupid. People also make mistakes. People also feel passionately about some issues, even when they have their facts wrong. Stomping all over them is not going to endear them to you or encourage them to pay any attention to what you say in the future, even when it makes a lot of sense. When people get the facts wrong, correcting them in a nice, polite way is more likely to get them to hear what you are saying and not just how your are saying it. When people have opinions that differ from yours, explaining what your opinions are without trashing theirs is more likely to start a meaningful dialog. Most of the longer-term members of the Mystara Mailing list seem to have know this before. Its only been recently that tempers have flared and people have thrown back what was being tossed at them. C'mon people -- lets try to be friendly. And to "bjm10", Jumunga and any other MML members who may feel I am also talking to them (and there are a few): I believe that you really do have interesting things to say and add to the discussions that happen here -- however, it would be NICE if you could learn to be more polite and, perhaps, a bit more conservative of bandwidth. Don't say things you wouldn't want people saying to you -- even when you really think that. And don't send messages that don't really add anything to the coversation or debate at hand. Its simple netiquette really -- almost every mailing list I'm on (and I'm on several) expect their members to behave in similar ways. I'd rather you stay on and share your insights in a mature and meaningful maner than have to find Leroy forced to shut you off the list. Regards, Jenni A. M. Merrifield - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs strawberry@jamm.com <==> http://www.jamm.com/ <------------------------------------------------------------------> God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. Then God started to think: "I should create things *I* like!" And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 12:04:45 EST From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Firearms and Realism My appologies to the List. I know I said I would not respond to this matter, but..... In a message dated 98-03-10 18:05:25 EST, you write: << On Tue, 10 Mar 1998, Alex295 wrote: >True. No system is needed if you consider a gun to be an arrow or crossbow bolt. However, if you want to compensate for shock and such other means need <> Really? When I blew out my shoulder playing ball, I did not go into shock. I threw up a few times, but no shock. BTW I never go into shock when that same shoulder decides to pop out of joint or decides to stop functioning. Then there are the periods of pain, where every breat draws forth a spams which begins at the elbow and ends at the sternum. Neither did I go into shock when my jaw was broken by a bat during batting practice. Always wear your catchers gear when catching, even at batting practice. Then there was the time I broke my wrist. Ouch!! Never try to bare hand a fast ball pitch. Nor did I go into shock when a was stabbed in my upper chest. I should know because I was the one that removed the offending object. Remember quite clearly how the blade grated against the bones. Not to mention the way the muscles tugged at the blade. I did go into shock when I was hit very hard in the head with a what I believe was an ax handle. I do not remember the exact events. I do remember that I received a concussion, sixty stitches, and a fractured skull. Oh well. I guess the rules do not apply to everyone. <> Oh, then what about the effect the firearm had upon those suits of plate armor. Only extremely strong and thick plating could withstand a hit by even an early musket. Pikes? Hmm....funny. I had always heard that a pike was so useful because the skill to wield it was minimal. Pictures of pike armed serfs taking down a mounted knights come to mind. Actually, it was the crossbow that was developed to replace the skill based longbowman. The armoured countermeasure was to beef up their protection. The firearm was just another step to peirce this strengthened armor. For the English, the training period was less a problem. Serfs/peasants were required by their Lord to be able to use a bow. And given the lack of television, archery was a way to pass time. And a longbowman was not a sniper. The biggest contribution a troop of longbowmen could offer was in their barrage attacks. A body of English bowmen could unleash at least three volleys before the first reached their target. Accuracy was not a priority. For accurate shots, the longbowmen would have to place themselves into positions where the enemy could hit them. Neither their lord nor themselves were wanting this. << The advent of reliable and fairly accurate pistols at a reasonable price (the flintlock pistol, mostly) saw a sharp increase in duelling in Europe. I put it down to the fact that one actually has to work to avoid embarassing yourself with a sword, but any idiot can take an afternoon and convince himself that he can handle a firearm. >> Fairly acccurate? Even the relatively modern muskets of the US Civil War were pathetically inaccurate. Go through and look up the amount of lead used versus the nuber of dead. Some battles (Gettysburg and Fredricksburg) saw 50+ pounds of lead used for each man killed. In general, muskets sucked in regards to accuracy. A man with a rifle could decimate a musket bearing troop unit. The American Rifleman was fear greatly by the British Army during the Revolutionary War. The British gained an advantage only when they had come close to the riflemen, using their bayonets. The rifles could not mount a bayonet. The rifleman had to use his prized and often irreplacable rifle as a club. And that bring up once again that firearms are expensive. They required the expertise of a watchmaker to create the firing mechanisms. It was only with the industrial revolution that firearms became practical to arm a large army. Ah but duelling with sabers was still the "proper" way to do it. And doing it with sabers was still popular as late as the 1920s. Pistols were too messy. An afternoon? Come now. Have you ever fired a pistol? How about one with a kick simular to a musket? It isn't as easy as point and click. Not in the least. Makes my wrist (the broken and just a few months ago surgically repaired one) hurt just thinking about it. Usually have to ice it down after doing some target shooting. I assure the List that this is my last response on this matter. On my own part, this thread is dead. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #158 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, March 11 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 159 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Firearms and Realism Re: [MYSTARA] - Firearms and Realism Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Koruk Barbarossa or Rory Barbarossa [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Imperial Geopolitical Intelligence Re: [MYSTARA] - READ THIS -- Tact and Such Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatian Efficiency and Guilds ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 12:13:00 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Firearms and Realism At 12:04 PM 3/11/98 EST, you wrote: >Really? When I blew out my shoulder playing ball, I did not go into shock. I threw up a few times, but no shock. >BTW I never go into shock when that same shoulder decides to pop out of joint or decides to stop functioning. Then there are the periods of pain, where every breat draws forth a spams which begins at the elbow and ends at the sternum. >Neither did I go into shock when my jaw was broken by a bat during batting practice. Always wear your catchers gear when catching, even at batting practice. >Then there was the time I broke my wrist. Ouch!! Never try to bare hand a fast ball pitch. >Nor did I go into shock when a was stabbed in my upper chest. I should know because I was the one that removed the offending object. Remember quite clearly how the blade grated against the bones. Not to mention the way the muscles tugged at the blade. >I did go into shock when I was hit very hard in the head with a what I believe was an ax handle. I do not remember the exact events. I do remember that I received a concussion, sixty stitches, and a fractured skull. >Oh well. I guess the rules do not apply to everyone. My, you've had it rough, haven't you? Sounds like you're going to look like Boris Karloff before much longer. "Look, Fritz! It's Alive!!! IT'S ALIVE!!!!!" Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 12:43:25 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Firearms and Realism At 12:04 PM 3/11/98 EST, you wrote: >My appologies to the List. I know I said I would not respond to this matter, but..... >In a message dated 98-03-10 18:05:25 EST, you write: ><< On Tue, 10 Mar 1998, Alex295 wrote: >Neither did I go into shock when my jaw was broken by a bat >Then there was the time I broke my wrist. Ouch!! >Nor did I go into shock when a was stabbed in my upper chest. >I did go into shock when I was hit very hard in the head with a what I believe >was an ax handle. I do not remember the exact events. I do remember that I received a concussion, sixty stitches, and a fractured skull. >Oh well. I guess the rules do not apply to everyone. I think you should think carefully about who your friends are mister! Just kidding...but be more careful! >Oh, then what about the effect the firearm had upon those suits of plate armor. Only extremely strong and thick plating could withstand a hit by even an early musket. It is true that plate was like paper against the early muskets. It was the innacurracy of the early firearms that limited them. I have always thought of it like this: Bow-not terribly accurate, not terribly powerful. Useful when you have a cluster (barrage) of arrows raining down on the foe. Longbow-a little more accurate and alot more powerful. There are stories of massive amounts of panic when this weapon first showed up. People thought it heralded the end of the world...funny how times don't really change? Early firearms-my thought is that they may have been less accurate than the longbow but I am not sure about that. In fact I am probably entirely wrong given velocity...oh heck, I just don't know. But I do know that it wasn't until rifling that firearms really started getting accurate. I think commanders weren't really concerned with accuracy because it had not really occured to them. They just assumed that missle weapons had to be used in a barrage type manner against a clustered enemy. They never dreamed that future weapons could be used in a "sniper" manner. Let me know what you think of that... >Pikes? Hmm....funny. I had always heard that a pike was so useful because the skill to wield it was minimal. Pictures of pike armed serfs taking down a mounted knights come to mind. That is definitely true. Perhaps he was thinking of a different polearm... ><< The advent of reliable and fairly accurate pistols at a reasonable price ((the flintlock pistol, mostly) saw a sharp increase in duelling in Europe. I put it down to the fact that one actually has to work to avoid embarassing yourself with a sword, but any idiot can take an afternoon and convince himself that he can handle a firearm. >> >Fairly acccurate? Wait a minute Alex...didn't you write both of these comments? I am confused... Even the relatively modern muskets of the US Civil War were ppathetically inaccurate. Go through and look up the amount of lead used versus >the nuber of dead. Some battles (Gettysburg and Fredricksburg) saw 50+ pounds of lead used for each man killed. In general, muskets sucked in regards to accuracy. A man with a rifle could decimate a musket bearing troop unit. The American Rifleman was fear greatly by the British Army during the Revolutionary War. The British gained an advantage only when they had come close to the riflemen, using their bayonets. The rifles could not mount a bayonet. The rifleman had to use his prized and often irreplacable rifle as a club. Absolutely true. If you don't want to pick up a Civil War book check out the movie Gettysburg! >And that bring up once again that firearms are expensive. They required the expertise of a watchmaker to create the firing mechanisms. It was only with the industrial revolution that firearms became practical to arm a large army. Very important to the development of the modern army was the industrial revolution. >Ah but duelling with sabers was still the "proper" way to do it. And doing it with sabers was still popular as late as the 1920s. Pistols were too messy. >An afternoon? Come now. Have you ever fired a pistol? How about one with a kick simular to a musket? It isn't as easy as point and click. Not in the least. Makes my wrist (the broken and just a few months ago surgically repaired one) hurt just thinking about it. Usually have to ice it down after doing some target shooting. >I assure the List that this is my last response on this matter. On my own part, this thread is dead. Alright now! You promised! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 18:44:06 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara On Wed, 11 Mar 1998, Daly wrote: >At 02:53 PM 3/11/98 +0100, you wrote: >>Keep in mind that Mystara was created with a system using only the law/chaos axis of the alignment system. Adding another layer (good/evil) can create undesired effects. TSR seemed to have this problem in their AD&D products. Ie Jaggar von Drachenfels became Lawful Evil, which contradicts most peoples opinion of that NPC. As a final comment on this issue, I personally suggest that you remove Alignments from the game altogether and have your players create personalities instead. >Well...I started with the blue book rules and have continued using the larger alignment system ever since. Although, the expert set was the very next rules system I bought and I used the Karameikan setting... >I too am dissatisfied with alignment in general and see it only as a guideline. In other words, to use an extreme example, if a paladin walks up to an orc in the middle of town and starts picking a fight (even if say he is trying to get the orc to swing first) that is a breach of alignment. This is especially important in cases where I judge the player to be attempting to merely gain a few easy experience points or treasure. A better way of doing this IMO is to set up rules that the character follows. A Paladin must obey the rules of his religion. Likewise a member of some other organization must obey those rules. Though it is easier for him to cheat ;) If the character has not promised to obey any rules, then the player is free to determine how the character will act in any situation, depending on what personality the player has in mind. On the other hand I dont think there is such a thing as poor roleplaying. If a character who has seemed to be honesty itself suddenly starts stealing, let him face the consequences. That character has changed. Ask the player what made his character change. Or has he been deceiving his friends all along? Personalities are flexible afterall. If you're charcters really only care about gold, then they are greedy. No matter whether it says Lawful Good on the character sheet. I think playing without alignment for a while has made me reconsider what personality means to my character. And it has lead to some very interesting roleplaying situations. >Paladins should exist in Mystara since they have always been there. I will comment on this in my reply to Glen Spriggs in a moment. >>Ranger: Rangers replace the D&D Foresters described in the Dawn of the Emperors, boxed set. In the known World they are usually only found near elven settlements in Thyatis. Foresters are humans who seek to learn the elven ways. Consider giving Rangers spells from the selection of the Elven Sorceror kit, mentioned later in this article. >Ok. Rangers can replace them rulewise but lets keep the name "Forester". I agree. >>Thief:No changes from the AD&D standard rules. Bard: Can be used normally. I generally think that they have too much spell power though. Maybe this should be limited. Darokin Mercheant could be a Bard kit. >Naw, merchants don't really have anything to do with music...necessarily. Check out the Complete Bards Handbook. The Bards there are quite different from the ones presented in the PHB. Not all of them are concerned with music. >>2.5 Psionicist >>If they exist they replace the D&D Mystics. >Nothing can replace the mystic! Personally I think the class is overrated but... >They exist in the mountains of >>Glantri, on the Isle of Dawn and in Sind. They are warrior monks and should learn appropriate proficiencies for such people. >I like keeping psionics out of the picture...until introduced in a foreign manner. In other words, perhaps it develops in response to an invasion of some kind. I know from earlier debates that quite a lot of people dislike bringing psionicists into Mystara. I dont care much for that class myself, but if one wants to introduce them, I think thats a good way to do it. I give my mystics psionic powers in My GURPS Mystara campaign. But GURPS Psionics are quite different from AD&D ones. >>4. Magic >>Spells work as described in the standard AD&D rules. Magical Items are quite common. Immortals are described on Shawn Stanleys page. Mages do not refer to spells by the name of the creator. Especially if the creator is not from Mystara. ie, Nystul, Bigby etc. More info on this can be found in the Glantri Kingdom of Magic, boxed set. >I think you are right to disclude any AD&D spells that have specific creators, but I enjoy slapping say, Eriadna's Bone Wish into any game. Gives it flavor. sounds good to me! :) Sincerely Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 19:06:01 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara On Wed, 11 Mar 1998, Glen Sprigg wrote: >At 02:53 PM 3/11/98 +0100, you wrote: (You being me namely Håvard) >>1. Alignment >I would make Jaggar von D. Lawful Neutral; I think that alignment fits him better. Remember than although there are 9 alignments, there is a lot of flexibility within those alignments. Sounds reasonable. >>Paladin: There are no Paladins on Mystara. If you want to use them, I recommend that you create individual kits for followers of the various Immortals. Alternately you can have fighter PCs given certain abilities if the chose to devote their lives to an Immortal. >No paladins in Mystara? Check the Rules Cyclopedia again; they're in there, all right. You don't START as a paladin, but you can become one. Well, I am very much aware of the fact that they exist in the D&D game. I actually played one myself. (ever played in a campaign where all the characters ended up 36th level with 18 in all the stats?) However, even the D&D Paladin was never properly introduced into Mystara in the Gazetteers or similar products. I dont know if we should bring up the Paladin debate again, but I still think the class needs to be modified of it is to be fitted into the Setting. >>Druids: There are no Druids in the Known World. There are druids in Robrenn on the Savage coast and there might be druids in the Hollow World. >See paladins, above. There are druids on Mystara. Same as above. Druids were never mentioned in any campaign specific material except Bruce's article on Robrenn and the Hollow World bosed set. I dont neccesarily think any feature of the D&D game has to be included if it doesnt seem to fit into the setting. However if someone on this list are to create a good article about the Druids of Karameikos, that will change the matter considerably. (Do you accept the challenge? :) The main reason why I dont like Druids is that they are basically priests of Nature, not Druids in the Celtic sence. I dont really mind having priests of nature in my campaign, but I dont know which culture they would belong to. >>2.3 Mage >>Mage: No change from the normal AD&D rules. Specialist Wizard: There are no such on Mystara. If you want to play a necromancer, get your mage character involved with the Secret Craft of Necromancy in Glantri. >In my previous post I mentioned the altering of the Nucleus of the Spheres. Why not have that alteration enable mages to specialize? Personally, I think enough was altered by the Nucleus. Also I think the specialist wizard is a totally usueless class. Besides, making bold statements such as "This does not exist in my setting" gives the setting some character. Dont you agree? >>2.4 Rogue >>Thief:No changes from the AD&D standard rules. Bard: Can be used normally. I generally think that they have too much spell power though. Maybe this should be limited. Darokin Mercheant could be a Bard kit. >That last point is interesting; on the other hand, Merchants could become a kit usable by any class, or a multi-class option for all races including humans. That is possible aswell. I dont like the multi-class option for all races including humans, since it seems to contradict quite a few rules. Now the Multiclass/Dualclass system is something that has annoyed me for some time, but I dont have any better ideas at the moment. If you want to change it slightly, better change it all the way. >>2.5 Psionicist >>If they exist they replace the D&D Mystics. They exist in the mountains of Glantri, on the Isle of Dawn and in Sind. They are warrior monks and should learn appropriate proficiencies for such people. >I hate psionics and don't use it, so I won't comment. Okay. Note the "If they exist" part. :) >>3. Races >>3.3 Elf >>All elves in Mystara know some magic. I dont know how to simulate this in the AD&D game. Perhaps the players option books could be used to allow each elf character to know at least one school of magic. If not you can create a Fighter/Mage kit called Elven Sorceror, who are able to cast some druid spells in addition to what a normal mage can. >Again, have the Nucleus of the Spheres alter elves to the point where not all of them can cast spells. Its possible. But I really like elves with inherent magic, it makes them more interesting. >>3.4 Gnome >>I suggest that you use those presented in the Players Handbook. They are quite different from the ones described in Top Baslista, but that may be Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 15:14:10 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #159 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 982403b61a4738f4d09664f6b2ad1d1c >>just as well. Keep in mind that gnomes are not a major race on Mystara. >Gnomes do exist in several areas of Mystara, although they are not, as you said, a major player. But they are around. True! >All in all, some good ideas here. A Mystara to AD&D conversion can work and be playable (WHIZZ!! Hah! Ducked!) with a little effort. Thanks, As someone else said. The rules arent that important, its the setting we care about. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 10:18:16 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Koruk Barbarossa or Rory Barbarossa On Wed, 11 Mar 1998, Tomás Sánchez wrote: >Matthew Levy wrote: >>Tomas, >>Sorry if I came across harshly. I have always enjoyed our discussions of Mystara and I didn't mean to shout you down. I do think it is not *necessary* that Rory Barbarossa be based on Koruk Barbarossa, but I do also understand your reasoning and respect your right to your own opinion. The name "Rory" I remember hearing as associated with the Irish, but I can't give you any specific source (sorry). >Don't worry anymore. I supposed you were a little nervous by those exams you told me about. Anyway, if you ever feel bad please remember i'm here by your side, no matter if you're in a good or a bad mood. I'll gladly listen to you. I consider you a friend. OK ? :) Thanks, that's nice to hear. I consider you a friend too and enjoy our collaborations. And yes I was stressed out by exams, but that's not an excuse for anything. Thanks for accepting my apology. >>I always thought Hule was based on Iran. >>the picture of Hosadus on X4 looked vaguely like the Ayatollah (who was an important villain for American propaganda at the time). But the culture and language of Hule as later elaborated by Bruce Heard are closer to Turkey than anything else. >True. One other arguement which have heavily influencted my opinion was the >religious governemnt reflected on the hule gazetteer. It really resembled >the idea i had of Iran. Yes, I think that was the general idea. I don't really know much about Iran to know whether such ideas have any validity, but it is certainly the case that the writers of X4-X5-X10 and the WotI were playing off of the idea of the Ayatollah as a deceitful evil propagandist. I personally think the idea of a church and religion based on constant deception is a more appropriate reflection of US politics than of any other country, but that's I suppose not particularly relevant. The way it finally shapes up is that Hule's language is based on Turkish but its politics is based upon a particular image of Iran in the late 20th century, except this is complicated by the inclusion of Loki, the story of the blue knife, and other such things. There are a lot of different ways to approach such things. The problem of using the real world and especially present day politics for models for a jointly-constructed fantasy world is that the images you are working from will be very different depending on your outlook, and it's also very easy to get hyper-self-righteous (notice all the debates about slavery on the list recently). I am unabashedly a leftist in my political outlook, but not at all of the dogmatic variety. As a political philosophy student, one of my interests is the intellectual history of modern concepts of race and related political ideologies - so I've discussed with Daly the proposition that D&D is in many ways a subtly racist and imperialistic game. I don't think that any shame should result from this, but it is important to recognize. I realize that I state things strongly, but this is not to be "politically correct", it is because I am intrigued by the conceptual structure of ideology and think one of the best ways to "fight one's inner fascism" is to examine our own fantasies in an ironic way. So for instance, I can see that the image of Hosadus is a mirror of the western media's portrayal of the Ayatollah during the 1980's (whether this portrayal was anywhere near correct, i can't really say - i wouldn't have wanted to spend my spring break in tehran, but i don't believe everything i see on TV either) and i can see how the mission of the PC's in X4 is an ideological representation of the desire to go kick ass in the middle east ... knowing this can help me to be somewhat subversive in the way that i play my D&D, for instance having Darokin Diplomatic Corps personnel secretly trading high-powered wands for hostages and then being exposed in a big media scandal ... or hey, you could have alphatian weapons inspectors demanding entrance to Hulean territory to count the airships of mass destruction ... but i think you see my point. >>>Isle of Dawn >>>In general, the nations along the eastern shore have been kingdoms of the Alphatian Empire, while the regions of the western shore have been provinces of Thyatis. >>how do you apply this to Caerdwicca? its neither a nation nor a kingdom, and it's on the southern shore. :) >He, he, he. PWAII page 42 says << it has been traditionally allied with thyatis >>. The PWA spoke about eastern and western shores so i guess they divided the island in two shares. No south shore was mentioned. Nice try. :) ah. does it say how long it's been around? "traditionally" implies at least some time span, though with the number of wars and side-switches on the IoD, it might be only relative. anyway take care and let's keep up our IoD discussions, it seems we are the only ones interested (so let's rock and roll, ok?) peace, m@2 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 11:16:06 -0800 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara At 07:06 PM 3/11/98 +0100, Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: [[...] >Druids were never mentioned in any campaign specific material except Bruce's article on Robrenn and the Hollow World bosed set. I dont neccesarily think any feature of the D&D game has to be included if it doesnt seem to fit into the setting. However if someone on this list are to create a good article about the Druids of Karameikos, that will change the matter considerably. (Do you accept the challenge? :) Hmmm, I belive that the Northern Reaches GAZ made specific references to the Druid class. I don't own the GAX and I'm really only going on the hearsay of one of my playing companions who likes to play Northern PC's, but I think that it was Clerics of Frey and Freya who were not only Druids, but could actually be treated as Druids from 1st level. Other than that, though, I agree that I can't think of any other Mystara-Specific Druids... Oh, except maybe, isn't there a group of Druids on on of the Irendi Islands? Jenni - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield http://www.jamm.com/jenni/home.html - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- strawberry@jamm.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 14:20:12 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara At 07:06 PM 3/11/98 +0100, you wrote: (You in this case being Havard) >>No paladins in Mystara? Check the Rules Cyclopedia again; they're in there, all right. You don't START as a paladin, but you can become one. > >Well, I am very much aware of the fact that they exist in the D&D game. I actually played one myself. (ever played in a campaign where all the characters ended up 36th level with 18 in all the stats?) Okay; the wording threw me for a moment; there are some people out there who haven't seen the RC, and some people might not realize that Paladins and Druids (and Avengers) are player options. My mistake, sorry. >However, even the D&D Paladin was never properly introduced into Mystara in the Gazetteers or similar products. I dont know if we should bring up the Paladin debate again, but I still think the class needs to be modified of it is to be fitted into the Setting. Paladins fit easily in Karameikos; it's practically tailor-made for knights in shining armor. As for elsewhere, they could show up in Darokin, various parts of the Savage Coast, and some parts of Alphatia as well (Norwold, for instance). >The main reason why I dont like Druids is that they are basically priests of Nature, not Druids in the Celtic sence. I dont really mind having priests of nature in my campaign, but I dont know which culture they would belong to. Well, I'm not that much of a Celt fan myself, and I have no problem with the D&D interpretation of the class. As for where to put them, the Shires have Masters (sort-of druids); Alfheim (for the GAZ-period campaigns) would probably have some, and even Ylaruam could have some sort of a druid variation (like the dervish presented in the GAZ). And of course, Karameikos (my favorite) has lots of open space just waiting for a druid to come in. >>In my previous post I mentioned the altering of the Nucleus of the Spheres. Why not have that alteration enable mages to specialize? >Personally, I think enough was altered by the Nucleus. Also I think the specialist wizard is a totally usueless class. Besides, making bold statements such as "This does not exist in my setting" gives the setting some character. Dont you agree? Sure, but it can be limiting, as well. On the other hand, I don't even use the standard magic rules anymore, preferring an alternative presented in a Dragon magazine from about three years ago. It makes the specialist superfluous, so I don't have to worry about them. I still like the idea of the Nucleus changing lots of things. It is, after all, an artifact of an entire SPHERE, not just a single immortal. Who's to say what long-term effects it had on Mystara? >>That last point is interesting; on the other hand, Merchants could become a kit usable by any class, or a multi-class option for all races including humans. >That is possible aswell. I dont like the multi-class option for all races including humans, since it seems to contradict quite a few rules. Now the Multiclass/Dualclass system is something that has annoyed me for some time, but I dont have any better ideas at the moment. If you want to change it slightly, better change it all the way. My reason for the multi-class option is a direct transfer from the Darokin Gazetteer rules for merchants; they are, essentially, a second class for the character, allowing them to gain experience as their normal class, but using their merchant skills to accumulate Merchant XPs. This isn't the 'official' multi/dual-class rules, but that's okay because Mystara's flavor is more important than any rules. >>Again, have the Nucleus of the Spheres alter elves to the point where not all of them can cast spells. >Its possible. But I really like elves with inherent magic, it makes them more interesting. Having reread your first note more carefully, I'll say that I like the 'single-school' theory; however, it does give the elf-munchkins more ammunition, doesn't it? "My elven fighter/thief also uses Invocation magic, so in addition to backstabbing you with my two-handed sword, I can use Magic Missiles and Fireballs!" I shudder at the thought. Again, let me remind those who may have been sleeping on the post... MYSTARA RULES!!!!! Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 14:49:34 -0500 (EST) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Daly pontificated: >But with good tendencies. I see Jaggar as a primarily good character. Could be argued that he was tinted in some of his decision making by Synn. I see him as LN normally, as he seems to be the type that would put law infront of everything else. - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 15:11:15 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Imperial Geopolitical Intelligence << Also -- did you notice that only the Known World Trail Maps had hexes on them? >> A real shame! Hex maps are simply better to use. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 15:11:19 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - READ THIS -- Tact and Such << There are a few other newcommers who tend to put down what others have said. Since Galwylin has named one name, I will name another: Jumunga Khan tends to send messages like the one with nothing but his incredulous exclamation wondering why anyone would want to use infection rules in their campagin. This sort of message is, in my opinion, just as unacceptable as the longer, belitting tirades of "bjm10" -- not only does it waste bandwidth since no really useful information has been added to the discussion, it also sends out an 'implied' message that is much the same as the explicit belitting that "bjm10" makes -- Jumunga is saying he thinks that the original writer is stupid, crazy or both. >> Please don't direct your flame thrower in my direction. I have really been more flamed than vice versa. As I have not so much time as I would like to have, I usual try to be short. The problem is that the people sometimes misunderstand me. Sometimes my knowledge about English might be not enough, too. (But it's a real advantage when I would have look into a dictionary to REALLY understand a flame :-) ). I don't believe that I have a tendency to flame the people in my mails when they haven't deserve it. In the case of the example you cited in your mail: I wanted to state that such rules add a IMO very disgusting flavour to the game. One last word to all who felt insulted by me before: I apologize for that with the exception of those who flamed me before. And please don't feel yourself insulted about that sentence. Jamuga Khan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 15:08:06 -0500 From: "DJ Sahlas" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatian Efficiency and Guilds Bob Brunciak wrote: >Let me cut to the chase. The Byzantine Empire had a strictly controlled economy, this included guilds. The Emipre printed a document known as the BOOK OF THE EPARCH which set rules for guilds. >I need feedback and some ideas to make this a group effort. Well, I think this is an excellent idea. I think the penalties should not be too harsh, though. Also, I think "byzantine efficiency" is sometimes meant to say overly-bureaucratic. Personally, I view Thyatis as just bureaucratic enough to cause the occasional headache to the PCs, but not to the point of being a theme that is dealt with during each game session. You know, Glantri (with all of the licenses required for everything) must have inherited this tendency from Thyatis. In addition, the government officials who enforce these rules should be detailed. Jim Sahlas *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #159 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Thursday, March 12 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 160 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Koruk Barbarossa or Rory Barbarossa Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Imperial Geopolitical Intelligence Re: [MYSTARA] - READ THIS -- Tact and Such Re: [MYSTARA] - Bleeding and Infection Re: [MYSTARA] - Combat situations Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis map Re: [MYSTARA] - Imperial Geopolitical Intelligence Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's fate and the Petition Re: [MYSTARA] - Bleeding and Infection Re: [MYSTARA] - Tact and Such Re: [MYSTARA] - Firearms and Realism Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis map [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] Brian "bjm" Maloney is Gone Lawful Good [was [MYSTARA] - READ THIS -- Tact and Such Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Equinoxes, Moon Cycles, calendars and such Re: [MYSTARA] - The Fate of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 15:11:17 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Koruk Barbarossa or Rory Barbarossa << He, he, he. PWAII page 42 says << it has been traditionally allied with thyatis >>. The PWA spoke about eastern and western shores so i guess they divided the island in two shares. No south shore was mentioned. Nice try. :) Tomás Sánchez Jr deckard@encomix.es #ICQ 9190040 >> This point is not quite clear. According to DoE and PWA Caerdwicca is a Thyatian ally AND a Thyatian barony. Likewise Furmenglaive is a province and a county. Politic, I assume... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 12:33:43 -0800 From: Dave Keyser Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara >At 07:06 PM 3/11/98 +0100, Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: [[[...] >>Druids were never mentioned in any campaign specific material except Bruce's article on Robrenn and the Hollow World bosed set. I dont neccesarily think any feature of the D&D game has to be included if it doesnt seem to fit into the setting. However if someone on this list are to create a good article about the Druids of Karameikos, that will change the matter considerably. (Do you accept the challenge? :) CM7 shows the elves meeting a group of druids in Alfheim. Of course, the druid leader is the same character that is in Robrenn. GAZ4 has a clan of druids. KKOA has a druid in its adventure, but that is AD&D. I think that there may have been a druid in one of the random encouters provided in one of the early CM modules, either CM1 or CM3. I know there was both a paladin and an avenger in those encounters, who wandered Norworld. Dave Keyser *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 15:51:39 -0500 From: "DJ Sahlas" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Imperial Geopolitical Intelligence Daly wrote: >Problem was that they were pulled too quickly to be found by the time I got around to purchasing them. I finally did find a copy in the mail order realms. But I found the maps to be rather huge and unlikely to be much use within an actual gaming session. But they were great for hanging up on the wall! We did just that and players would routinely get up and study them when discussing travel and so on. Jim Sahlas *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 13:42:05 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - READ THIS -- Tact and Such Jamuga: If you don't think that idly stating your opinion that other people's ideas are "disgusting" (with no argument or evidence or logic to support you) isn't a flame, then maybe you need to think about how you would feel if I did this every single time you proposed anything ... and while I will admit I have been just as guily of flame incitement as others in the past, I have never been this unjustifiably dismissive with you. If you want to offer your opinion, be prepared to defend yourself (especially when it demeans others' work). peace, m@2 "You're not really in love with yourself - you're just in love with the idea of being in love with yourself" - said to me by one of the two little fellas who hang out on either of my shoulders ... I can't remember which ... On Wed, 11 Mar 1998, JamugaKhan wrote: ><< There are a few other newcommers who tend to put down what others have ssaid. Since Galwylin has named one name, I will name another: Jumunga Khan tends to send messages like the one with nothing but his incredulous exclamation wondering why anyone would want to use infection rules in their campagin. This sort of message is, in my opinion, just as unacceptable as the longer, belitting tirades of "bjm10" -- not only does it waste bandwidth since no really useful information has been added to the discussion, it also sends out an 'implied' message that is much the same as the explicit belitting that "bjm10" makes -- Jumunga is saying he thinks that the original writer is stupid, crazy or both. >> >Please don't direct your flame thrower in my direction. I have really been more flamed than vice versa. As I have not so much time as I would like to have, I usual try to be short. The problem is that the people sometimes misunderstand me. Sometimes my knowledge about English might be not enough, too. (But it's a real advantage when I would have look into a dictionary to REALLY understand a flame :-) ). I don't believe that I have a tendency to flame the people in my mails when they haven't deserve it. >In the case of the example you cited in your mail: I wanted to state that such rules add a IMO very disgusting flavour to the game. >One last word to all who felt insulted by me before: I apologize for that with the exception of those who flamed me before. And please don't feel yourself insulted about that sentence. >Jamuga Khan >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 15:49:15 -0500 From: "DJ Sahlas" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bleeding and Infection Inconu wrote: >Does anyone have bleeding and infection rules that they've created? AD&D did make bleeding rules...but they weren't too thorough IIRC. I've never really even considered infection rules to be honest, but it would make sense to add something like that to my game. Anyone have ideas or rules that they use? Well, to be honest, this might be more detail than some people want. Combat in FRPGs is simplified to begin with, but to add bleeding and infection rules would necessitate an overhaul of the way damage is calculated. Take bleeding for instance. You can use a critical hit table to determine where the victim was struck. Then you simply lose a certain amount of hit points each round until your wound is dealt with. Note that a tourniquet can be tied around a bleeding limb, but bleeding into the abdomen would only stop with clerical healing (or surgery). Infection is a real concern with each and every penetrating trauma, not just with a rusty sword. Furthermore, getting stuck through the abdomen and puncturing your bowel would result in sepsis (bacteria from the gut would enter the bloodstream and cause widespread infection) and death without clerical intervention (or antibiotics). Most PCs have their wounds cured by magic, which presumably deals with these eventualities. I don't make rules for all the horrible things that can happen to characters in battle. Rather, I use the rules to describe the situation to the players. Two examples follow: Let's say a 1st level fighter with 8 hp took 4 points of damage. Until he got healed, the fact that he's at half strength can be interpreted by telling the player that his arm doesn't work right after the gash it took, he feels ill, he wakes up in the morning in pain, and so on. Clerical healing can bring him back to 8 hp and "health". The wound becomes a fine scar, the fever resolves, and the pain is gone. Until then, the DM should feel free to impose penalties to hit and so on. With all the magic-heavy bonuses players can accumulate, I find it necessary to use realism-weighted minuses to equalize challenges and keep people on their toes. Example number two: An elf with 6 hp is stabbed for 8 points of damage. The PC is dead, but that doesn't mean right away. With respect to the rules, he cannot do anything, but with respect to the game, it could be said that a great vessel was severed, and the PC slumps to the ground with blood spurting from somewhere. A "raise dead" can stop the bleeding before the character loses too much blood, and until then, some fellow PC/NPC might frantically be holding the wound shut or something. The basic idea is to use the logistics to guide your descriptions. Anything else really gets much more complicated than most people would be interested in. I would not recommend formalizing any kind of rules for medically realistic damage. I do not see how it would add to the fun of the game. Jim Sahlas *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 16:46:11 EST From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Combat situations << Until the latter has completed the casting, the former already had the opportunity to slice him down (10 long seconds). I wonder ... how do you avoid the problem in your campaigns ? >> That's where initiative comes into play. If the mage wins inititive then the spell is cast successfully and the effects occur before the fighter may act. If the fighter wins it, and hits...then the spell is lost.. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 16:14:30 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis map At 15.22 08/03/98 EST, you wrote: >About the small mystara map, I too was looking for a bigger format. Sorry. I think I've a bigger format of that map. It's about 22 cm x 16 cm, or 800x600 pixel, or 500 Kb, or roughly 9x6 inches. Let me know if you need it. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 20:02:58 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Imperial Geopolitical Intelligence At 13.48 10/03/98 -0500, you wrote: [About Trail Maps] >Problem was that they were pulled too quickly to be found by the time I got around to purchasing them. I finally did find a copy in the mail order realms. But I found the maps to be rather huge and unlikely to be much use within an actual gaming session. Well, I've hanged up those 2 maps at the wall behind the DM (me) in our usual gaming room and they look great. Unfortunately my PC spend much of their time underground (they're Shadow Elves), but when they move to the surface we mark their position on the map with a sort of flag. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 16:57:31 EST From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's fate and the Petition << I would say that Mystara would best be served with a rule-less, high detail and high background release. Remove any and all references to rules in the main body and put notes for adapting matters to various game rules in appendices. >> To put it frankly, i don't think it matters what we say about rules, detail, or any factors that exist within the game itself. The resurrection of Mystara is all we can hope to ask from WOTC right now. If they do decide to bring it back, or make a test release....they probably won't listen to our ideas. That's what the writers and the rest of the team that they'll assign will have to come up with. The power we have, is to say that we'll purchase thier Mystara material if they choose to bring it back. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 17:24:35 EST From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bleeding and Infection << I would not recommend formalizing any kind of rules for medically realistic damage. I do not see how it would add to the fun of the game. >> Okay, you made a bunch of good points. You convinced me that useing infection rules would be too much of an effort for such a minor piece of the game. However, i do believe that bleeding rules should apply to a degree. Without haveing a large wound bandaged or tended to by a healer or herbalist, there should be after-effects. Not constant bleeding that won't stop till the charecter reaches 0hp.....more like a loss of 1 hp a round for as many rounds equal to 50% of the damage received. That's not hard to follow, and can be calculated with ease. Taking weak damage (1-4) won't cause excessive bleeding. However, a trained swordsman doing 19 points of damage in one round should leave a man bleeding for some time.....in the case of these rules, it would be 9 rounds and a loss of 9 hp if the character leaves the wound to bleed. Realize that i just came up with the percentage of the top of my head and is in no way my final thoughts on this. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 15:04:10 -0800 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tact and Such At 03:11 PM 3/11/98 EST, JamugaKhan wrote: PPlease don't direct your flame thrower in my direction. [...] For the record, I have already apologized to Jumuga in private for 'pointing a finger' at him and would like the list to know that. My comments about him were a bit unfair, especially as I don't really feel that his comments are anywhere near the same leauge as the more detailed and deliberate stuff that has been posted to this list lately. I named him only because, in the past, I have seen that when trouble has brewed and a vague "certain people have done/said" comment is made, frequently those 'certain people' do not 'see themselves' in the post and nothing is changed, things go on as before. As a result, the same problem remains and the atmosphere of the list remains stagnant or even deteriorates furthur. I would truly hate to see that happen to the MML. There are others on this list that have taken to being less polite as they have been in the past -- do not think that just because your name has not been mentioned you are not at fault. If you have ever responded in a negative, accusatory way, even if the other person 'started it' you have contributed to the current state of affairs. I am also at fault -- although I honestly tried to maintain an 'impartialitiy' in my original post, I realize now that I failed by bringing in details not *directly* related to the original situation, and so I appologize -- to the List and to Jamuga Khan. And now that I have said that: I will not be contributing to this discussion in public any further. If you wish to continue discussing it with me, it will have to be by private email. If you send something to the list, I will read it and may even reply privately if I feel it is necessary, but I will not reply to it on the list. Despite that, I do hope that everyone here takes a good, long hard, look at themselves and their past responses and then makes a concerted effort to keep the MML a nice, friendly place as it has always been. Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 03:05:41 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #160 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: eca27d7e238fb742aa26e6f8390ce078 Again, I apologize for erring in my own response choices and for making a bad situation worse rather than better. Yours, Jenni A. M. Merrifield. - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield http://www.jamm.com/jenni/home.html - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- strawberry@jamm.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 18:02:16 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Firearms and Realism On Wed, 11 Mar 1998, Alex295 wrote: >Really? When I blew out my shoulder playing ball, I did not go into shock. I threw up a few times, but no shock. I went into shock. Scared the hell out of the ER folks, or so I was told. Second time I broke my arm, no shock. >Nor did I go into shock when a was stabbed in my upper chest. I should know because I was the one that removed the offending object. Remember quite Fine, you're a macho stud and I'm a physical wimp. Nevertheless, shock can happen and it doesn't take a firearm to cause it. >Oh, then what about the effect the firearm had upon those suits of plate armor. Only extremely strong and thick plating could withstand a hit by even The thing is actually intentionaly hitting anybody with that armor. >Pikes? Hmm....funny. I had always heard that a pike was so useful because the skill to wield it was minimal. Pictures of pike armed serfs taking down a Those pike armies that dominated Europe were among the best trained in European history. It is one thing to point a stick, it is another entirely to march in perfect "hedgehog" formation. >Fairly acccurate? Even the relatively modern muskets of the US Civil War were pathetically inaccurate. Go through and look up the amount of lead used versus Compared to the matchlock, the flintlock was a model of accuracy. >Ah but duelling with sabers was still the "proper" way to do it. And doing it with sabers was still popular as late as the 1920s. Pistols were too messy. Sabre duelling was "proper" in Italy, Hungary, and parts of German-speaking countries. Epee was the sword of choice in other countries, but both were eventually oershadowed by the pistol. >An afternoon? Come now. Have you ever fired a pistol? How about one with a kick simular to a musket? It isn't as easy as point and click. Not in the Yes to both--I was able to put six shots out of six into a man-sized target with a black-powder pistol at 25 yards, first day I fired one. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 17:51:42 EST From: Dleggend Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis map In a message dated 98-03-11 17:16:01 EST, you write: << think I've a bigger format of that map. It's about 22 cm x 16 cm, or 800x600 pixel, or 500 Kb, or roughly 9x6 inches. Let me know if you need it. >> I would appreciate it if you send it to me. Dleggend@aol.com Enter Dleggend's Page http://members.aol.com/dleggend/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 18:25:47 -0000 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] Brian "bjm" Maloney is Gone Mystarans, First, this s short message, since my friends ae staring at me expectedly, waiting for me to start the evening's game. Brian "bjm" Maloney is gone. I have booted him from the list. It is the first time I have ever done this. It was unfortunate, but it is over. Let's move on. Please, if you have a problem with a person, bring it to me, not the list. Replying to a rude post on the list is pretty much guarenteed to generate tons of non-Mystara related posts, which is not what the list is for. I have, and will continue to do so, sent private e-mail to people warning them about their bahvior. Anyway, enough of that. Time to killa few PC's... :) Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com ICQ #4253672 "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 20:45:52 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Lawful Good [was [MYSTARA] - READ THIS -- Tact and Such At 07:46 AM 3/11/98 -0800, Jenni A. M. Merrifield wrote: >Galwylin may have opened the floodgates Yes, I did and I apologize to the list. Now, proving my chaotic nature can turn anything around into a game discussion.... I think this is a good example of what a paladin (or any lawful good character) would or wouldn't do. What I did broke the laws of this list even if I thought it was doing good (well, kinda..). If I were lawful good that action would have been impossible because it goes against the law (rules of the list). No laws then no good. I think we can imagine what such actions would do to this list and why paladins would see such actions as working against good. In fact, I would say my actions were of a chaotic good nature because they would seek to have 'good' without worrying about the result down the road. So, I believe that anything that goes against the law would not be done by a paladin (though he may plead to the monitor to release the slaves). Does that help explain why a paladin wouldn't promote good over law? I don't think we ever completely put that one to bed. Of course, I cold just be reaching.... _____________________________________ This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 20:29:02 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara I just knew this was going to be a good discussion topic and I'm already behind! Oh, well. Here's some of my comments (that were stolen from my dreams it seems ;) >Adapting AD&D to Mystara. >1. Alignment >As a final comment on this issue, I personally suggest that you remove Alignments from the game altogether and have your players create personalities instead. I don't see the need to remove alignments because that's the way I see them too. Guidelines for players. I've never gone into that business of taking EXP because of a shift. Later in this I will demonstrate my use of them ;) >2. Classes >Paladin: There are no Paladins on Mystara. If you want to use them, I recommend that you create individual kits for followers of the various Immortals. Alternately you can have fighter PCs given certain abilities if the chose to devote their lives to an Immortal. I like paladins but I would curb those abilities. Having all that because you're lawful good doesn't make sense to me. A paladin of an Immortal of healing (just who is that, btw?) can explain the laying on hands but why have the aura of protection from evil too? Suit these warriors up according to their faiths and not some broad brush. >Ranger: Rangers replace the D&D Foresters described in the Dawn of the Emperors, boxed set. In the known World they are usually only found near elven settlements in Thyatis. Foresters are humans who seek to learn the elven ways. Consider giving Rangers spells from the selection of the Elven Sorceror kit, mentioned later in this article. Another class that is too broad in scope. I say get rid of them completely and make foresters a kit that replaces them. In my mind, the difference of a fighter who lives in the woods and a ranger shouldn't be that different. Another case of making too many classes not enough reason. Maybe they were looking for the Tolkien ranger? >2.2 Cleric >Cleric: No changes from the AD&D standard Speciality Priests: I would suggest that these are far more common that clerics. Shawn Stanley has more info on the what benefits each religion has on his Homepage. I would even go on to suggest they are the only type of cleric. No plain vanillas unless the Immortal is kinda bland himself. >Druids: There are no Druids in the Known World. There are druids in Robrenn on the Savage coast and there might be druids in the Hollow World. I like druids. Druids exist. Why haven't you seen them before? Because good druids are part of the wood and not some glory seekers. They also use that shape-change ability to watch any intruders. No wonder we haven't seen them yet. They do their job quietly just like nature does hers. Burn the forest down and then you'll find them and their not gonna be happy. >2.3 Mage >Mage: No change from the normal AD&D rules. Specialist Wizard: There are no such on Mystara. If you want to play a necromancer, get your mage character involved with the Secret Craft of Necromancy in Glantri. Specialist wizards seem to describe those involve in a Secret Craft, to me. >2.4 Rogue >Bard: Can be used normally. I generally think that they have too much spell power though. Maybe this should be limited. Darokin Mercheant could be a Bard kit. Get rid of the magic ability (what does that have to do with singing anyway?). Not just cut it down get rid of it completely. >2.5 Psionicist >If they exist they replace the D&D Mystics. They exist in the mountains of Glantri, on the Isle of Dawn and in Sind. They are warrior monks and should learn appropriate proficiencies for such people. Give mystics a few psionic abilities (up that exp table though) but don't make them total psionic. The class is too high powered when there's not a counter balance (psionic foes). >3.3 Elf >All elves in Mystara know some magic. I dont know how to simulate this in the AD&D game. Perhaps the players option books could be used to allow each elf character to know at least one school of magic. If not you can create a Fighter/Mage kit called Elven Sorceror, who are able to cast some druid spells in addition to what a normal mage can. Easiest way to do that is to simply say that all elves can cast 1st level spells one per day. It's a lot tamer than the inate abilities AD&D gives drow. >Half elves: There are no Halfelves on Mystara. Nuff said ;) >3.4 Gnome >I suggest that you use those presented in the Players Handbook. They are quite different from the ones described in Top Baslista, but that may be just as well. Keep in mind that gnomes are not a major race on Mystara. I wouldn't say not a major race just a race that prefers to remain home. >3.5 Halflings >They refer to themselves as Hin. There are no Hairfoots, Stouts, or Tallfellows on Mystara. The Hin all have Infravision and the Resistance ability of Stouts. You know your hin better than I. I would just pick one of the catagories and say that's the type on Mystara not all three. >4. Magic >Mages do not refer to spells by the name of the creator. Especially if the creator is not from Mystara. ie, Nystul, Bigby etc. More info on this can be found in the Glantri Kingdom of Magic, boxed set. Mystara name spells but not off-world names. Also, I think during the week without magic that a big part of the magic items were destroyed. Not because of the gone magic but because people could accidently destroyed them trying to get them to work. _____________________________________ This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 22:08:25 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Equinoxes, Moon Cycles, calendars and such In a message dated 98-03-11 09:33:53 EST, epignat@leda.pd.astro.it writes: >Not exactly. A couple of days ago we found a similar problem with eequinoxes... I am putting here again the results for reference 9sorry, I forgot who wroten them): So what is the discrepancy in equinoxes? The equinoxes and solstices occur every three months, correct? All we have to deal with is a contradiction among contemporary sources (all of the gazetteers date from AC 1000, after all). There is a difference between a clear statement of a physical impossibility (such as a full moon rising at dawn) and contradictions about when events occur within the same year. The former is a paradox that begs for an explanation; the latter simply means that one or more sources are plain wrong. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 00:16:40 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Fate of Mystara In a message dated 98-03-11 10:13:11 EST, borealis@cois.on.ca writes: >As for the SAGA system, I haven't played it, don't know much about it, and aam not interested in it; I want Mystara in a D&D/AD&D environment. Here is my take on the SAGA system as it might apply to Mystara: Pro: It allows far more flexibility in character creation -- more different types of character are possible in SAGA than in D&D/AD&D. Con: The characters who can wield magic seem to be significantly less powerful than those in D&D/AD&D. In a magic rich setting like Mystara, that would be a major change. Perhaps SAGA can be integrated with the D&D/AD&D magic system in some way? Or perhaps Mystara should be brought back as the "flagship" setting of the 3d edition AD&D? If the changes for 3d edition are thought out well enough, it will fit together with Mystara far better than the 2d edition rules did. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 00:17:13 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara In a message dated 98-03-11 10:50:08 EST, jdaly@friend.ly.net writes: >But with good tendencies. I see Jaggar as a primarily good character. I think that the AD&D version of Jaggar is meant to suggest that Jaggar underwent an alignment change at some point, probably when Dolores seduced him. Remember that at one time he rode a pegasus -- that means (in AD&D terms) that he was once of good alignment. But he is certainly a major reason why I would chuck the good-evil axis for Mystara. In D&D, Jaggar began Lawful and remained Lawful, even when he was seduced and deceived by the Chaotic Dolores. In AD&D he is forced to undergo an alignment change, even though his personality developed in a consistent and believable way. For D&D, his opposition to the Sphere of Entropy is sufficient to keep him in the "non-evil" camp. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 02:03:43 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara At 12:17 AM 3/12/98 EST, you wrote: >But he is certainly a major reason why I would chuck the good-evil axis for Mystara. In D&D, Jaggar began Lawful and remained Lawful, even when he was seduced and deceived by the Chaotic Dolores. In AD&D he is forced to undergo an alignment change, even though his personality developed in a consistent and believable way. For D&D, his opposition to the Sphere of Entropy is sufficient to keep him in the "non-evil" camp. That's one of the sore spots with the D&D presentation of Entropy to me. Entropy isn't bad or evil. It's just an ending. They made too many Immortals evil in the sphere. Nyx is obviously not evil but, if I think about selfishness as being a characteristic, I think Rad is and he's not in that sphere. Yep, that's right. I think Rad pulled that trigger on purpose and destroyed Alphatia and the intention of wiping out a whole people is evil in my mind. In my attempts to convert the Immortals to AD&D, I've noticed some surprising things about some of these Immortals. If Mystara did go on a true law/chaos axis then there would be just as good a chance of evil Immortals in other spheres beside entropy. _____________________________________ This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #160 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Thursday, March 12 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 161 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Fate of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - (*Way* Off Topic) Some Personal but Exciting News Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Weaponry and Injuries Re: [MYSTARA] - Combat situations Re: [MYSTARA] - Petition to TSR re: Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Combat situations Re: [MYSTARA] - Petition to TSR re: Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Petition to TSR re: Mystara Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Weaponry and Injuries Re: [MYSTARA] - Petition to TSR re: Mystara [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's fate: our fault? Re: [MYSTARA] - The Fate of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Combat situations ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 02:07:30 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Fate of Mystara At 12:16 AM 3/12/98 EST, you wrote: >Pro: It allows far more flexibility in character creation -- more different types of character are possible in SAGA than in D&D/AD&D. One of the biggest pros (coming from someone who is about on his last table and die). >Con: The characters who can wield magic seem to be significantly less powerful than those in D&D/AD&D. In a magic rich setting like Mystara, that would be a major change. Actually, the system makes magic as powerful as you wish. Its Krynn itself that had to relearn it making it not as powerful before. Just add the rule that permancy spells are possible and you're ready to rip. >Perhaps SAGA can be integrated with the D&D/AD&D magic system in some way? Or perhaps Mystara should be brought back as the "flagship" setting of the 3d edition AD&D? If the changes for 3d edition are thought out well enough, it will fit together with Mystara far better than the 2d edition rules did. Some how I think that WotC's Dominia (the MtG world) is already eyeing that spot. _____________________________________ This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 07:05:17 EST From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara << >Druids: There are no Druids in the Known World. There are druids in RRobrenn on the Savage coast and there might be druids in the Hollow World. Emerond was said to hold a Grand Druid..... - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 07:07:09 EST From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara << 2.4 Rogue >>Bard: Can be used normally. I generally think that they have too much spell power though. Maybe this should be limited. Darokin Mercheant could be a Bard kit. >Get rid of the magic ability (what does that have to do with singing anyway?). Not just cut it down get rid of it completely. >> I agree. Why was this ability ever given to bards? - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 07:12:14 EST From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara << Give mystics a few psionic abilities (up that exp table though) but don't make them total psionic. The class is too high powered when there's not a counter balance (psionic foes). I don't think mystics should all necessarily get psionic abilities. In my campaigns, i have a very small percentage of Mystics able to obtain psionics. There is however, one empire (obviously non-canon) in Eastern Davania that is full of psionics. However, I do have them as a slowly dying class, and by the time of 1014, the nation is almost lost. Therefore, psionics in my Mystara are very rare indeed. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 07:22:55 EST From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara In a message dated 98-03-11 22:05:39 EST, you write: << >All elves in Mystara know some magic. I dont know how to simulate this in the AD&D game. Perhaps the players option books could be used to allow each elf character to know at least one school of magic. If not you can create a Fighter/Mage kit called Elven Sorceror, who are able to cast some druid spells in addition to what a normal mage can. Easiest way to do that is to simply say that all elves can cast 1st level spells one per day. It's a lot tamer than the inate abilities AD&D gives drow. >> There is an AD&D supplement "Skills and Powers" (don't get it thought, only about 10 pages are worth reading in it. Anyways, they have one suggested addition to elves. Spell abilities: Once a day the elf can cast faerie fire, dancing lights, and a light/darkness spell as a priest or wizard of the same level. When the character reaches 4th level, he can add levitate, detect magic, and know alignment. Does this help? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 07:23:44 EST From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara >Half elves: There are no Halfelves on Mystara. Nuff said ;) >> I just don't agree with this, but we've already talked about it before...so as Gawliyn stated.. "Nuff said" - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 06:31:54 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara At 07:12 AM 3/12/98 EST, you wrote: >I don't think mystics should all necessarily get psionic abilities. In my campaigns, i have a very small percentage of Mystics able to obtain psionics. There is however, one empire (obviously non-canon) in Eastern Davania that is full of psionics. However, I do have them as a slowly dying class, and by the time of 1014, the nation is almost lost. Therefore, psionics in my Mystara are very rare indeed. I meant just a few disiplines. Telepathy or pyschokinesis. Something low power but cool. Just no brain stuns (or whatever they're called). _____________________________________ This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 06:42:55 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara At 07:22 AM 3/12/98 EST, you wrote: >There is an AD&D supplement "Skills and Powers" (don't get it thought, only about 10 pages are worth reading in it. Anyways, they have one suggested addition to elves. >Spell abilities: Once a day the elf can cast faerie fire, dancing lights, and a light/darkness spell as a priest or wizard of the same level. When the character reaches 4th level, he can add levitate, detect magic, and know alignment. >Does this help? That's those drow abilities I was referring to. I think that's a little much just to have a little knowledge of magic. _____________________________________ This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 09:01:08 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara At 07:07 AM 3/12/98 EST, you wrote: ><< 2.4 Rogue >>>Bard: Can be used normally. I generally think that they have too much spell power though. Maybe this should be limited. Darokin Mercheant could be a Bard kit. >>Get rid of the magic ability (what does that have to do with singing anyway?). Not just cut it down get rid of it completely. >> >I agree. Why was this ability ever given to bards? Quite simply because of the "mystic" quality surrounding real life bards. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 09:05:28 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara At 02:03 AM 3/12/98 -0600, you wrote: >At 12:17 AM 3/12/98 EST, you wrote: >>But he is certainly a major reason why I would chuck the good-evil axis for Mystara. In D&D, Jaggar began Lawful and remained Lawful, even when he was seduced and deceived by the Chaotic Dolores. In AD&D he is forced to undergo an alignment change, even though his personality developed in a consistent and believable way. For D&D, his opposition to the Sphere of Entropy is sufficient to keep him in the "non-evil" camp. >That's one of the sore spots with the D&D presentation of Entropy to me. Entropy isn't bad or evil. It's just an ending. They made too many Immortals evil in the sphere. I don't think so. I think the overall impression of mortals is that Entropy=evil. And I think most are. But like you say...it does not have to be. Nyx is obviously not evil but, if I think aabout selfishness as being a characteristic, I think Rad is and he's not in that sphere. I don't see Rad as evil. He is for open study. He is for freedom. He believes in his cause. He just does not realize the extent to which he has taken it till the very end. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 15:24:13 +0100 From: Lille My Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - (*Way* Off Topic) Some Personal but Exciting News At 13:32 09-03-98 -0800, you wrote: >I AM EXPECTING MY FIRST CHILD! >The baby is due September 18th, and now that I'm going into my second tri-mester we've (my husband and I) started telling people outside of our immediate family about our happy news. Congratulations Jenni! What a lovely thought, the first Mystaran to be born in the RW!? Perhaps it's a sign, but any way congratulations on the good news. Lille My *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 08:28:01 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara At 09:05 AM 3/12/98 -0500, you wrote: >I don't think so. I think the overall impression of mortals is that Entropy=evil. And I think most are. But like you say...it does not have to be. Entropy is a part of the universe though. It's the natural order of things that begin to end. We only equate ending with being bad when concerning death. The whole universe (ours and Mystara's) would be severely be damaged if entropy didn't exist. It's no more evil than energy, time, matter or thought. These things just are without alignments. D&D has made this view lopsided by putting so many Immortals of Entropy being evil (or chaotic). In fact, entropy is one of the most lawful things there are. >I don't see Rad as evil. He is for open study. He is for freedom. He believes in his cause. He just does not realize the extent to which he has taken it till the very end. Study to propel his knowledge. Freedom to persue that knowledge. Belief that only he sees things correctly. No thinking of what could happened because of his views. He knew what the Doomsday Device would do, he built it for that purpose. He didn't consider the people that didn't have a say in that government and he knew that they didn't because the same situation exists in Glantri. Yet he still planned their execution and carried it out. That's evil to me. Everything he did was for himself and his goals. That's completely opposite of good. _____________________________________ This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 09:44:47 EST From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Weaponry and Injuries Okay, I cheated by changing the thread title. But some of this is relevant to Mystara. In a message dated 98-03-11 13:01:46 EST, you write: >Neither did I go into shock when my [various personal injuries snipped] I think you should think carefully about who your friends are mister! Just kidding...but be more careful!>> Aye, I am. Yes it is true this not so old body of mine has taken a beating. It is something I have to face everyday. Some of the longterm affects are easily felt in little tasks such as laying prone. A trip to the dentist is a particularly doubly painful task. I use to dine on pain killers all through high school. And I usually drank a goodly portion. As a result my memories of those four years are pretty jumbled up. I still, to this day, could not tell you certain events. I simply do not remember. I no longer take those pain killers. Still, the loss of some things are are a bane upon my soul. But anyway....you have to deal with stuff like that. It may sound weird, but you learn to live with the pain, even accept it as a given. I have had one operation on my wrist and expect several more within the next few years on my shoulder, elbow, and spine. The latter holding the possibility of the removal of one of my ribs (clavicals). Hey, at least I did not go on about them being "Red Badges of Courage" or some other symbolic rubbish. :-) >Oh, then what about the effect the firearm had upon those suits of plate armor. Only extremely strong and thick plating could withstand a hit by even an early musket. It is true that plate was like paper against the early muskets. It was the innacurracy of the early firearms that limited them. I have always thought of it like this: Bow-not terribly accurate, not terribly powerful. Useful when you have a cluster (barrage) of arrows raining down on the foe.>> Don't forget the composite recurves of the Steppes. IIRC one could penetrate Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 12:58:18 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #161 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 9b28e23bde84eed72f2992964bdb6f25 an armoured opponent at one hundred+ yards and kill the armoured man behind him. The Romans learned of this weapon the hard way. Later, they adopted it. <> The English Yew longbow was and is a fine weapon. The panic it caused was devastating. I cannot remember the battle's name, but the English longbowmen decimated the pride of the French by slaying their noble knights while they charged. "The end of the world" aspect could be explained by the deaths of the aristocratic knights. Remember that the times dictated the importance of the relation between the knights, nobles, and serfs. Remember that the Kings ruled by "divine right" and such a mass slaying of nobles was very much a test of faith. But then again, it is just testement of air supperiority and its effect upon ground troops. Standar arrows had trouble piercing the plate because they as well as edged weapons tended to glance offf the armor. The armor piercing head for a longbow arrow was a thick yet thinly tapered point. It literally punched through the armor plating. The History Channel ran a documentary on the longbow not long ago. Should have taped it. Also, the crossbow was so devastating to armored troops that the Pope outlawed their use against Christians. However, "heretics" were an exception to the rule. <> Not sure about the exact velocity of early firearms. I would have to assume that they were at least as fast as a crossbow and longbow. Also, IIRC one aspect of firearms against armor was that the damage of impact was simular to a hit by a mace. Even a non penatrating hit could make for a bad injury from the concussion. I see matchlocks as very affective at firing a volley or two into a pikemen to break up their formations. Against pikemen and mounted knights, range was not as important. But yes, "rifling" was a boon to the firearm. Not only was accuracy increased, but also range. ><< The advent of reliable and fairly accurate pistols at a reasonable price ((the flintlock pistol, mostly) saw a sharp increase in duelling in Europe. I put it down to the fact that one actually has to work to avoid embarassing yourself with a sword, but any idiot can take an afternoon and convince himself that he can handle a firearm. >> >Fairly acccurate? .... Wait a minute Alex...didn't you write both of these comments? I am confused...>> I sure hope I did not write the first passage. I did not write the first part. For one thing, I never use the word "embarrasing" even verbally. Also, it is written out of of my usual manner and style. Sorry if it came across like I wrote it. IIRC it was BJM10 that wrote that. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 09:52:08 EST From: CRlPTONITE Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Combat situations << That's where initiative comes into play. If the mage wins inititive then the spell is cast successfully and the effects occur before the fighter may act. If the fighter wins it, and hits...then the spell is lost.. -Inconu >> I don't recall the D&D rules, but AD&D says that the spell won't be lost. If the wizard is distracted or hit in combat he or she may not be able to cast the spell, but it's still memorized and can be cast later. - --- -- --Criptonite *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 16:01:37 +0100 From: Lille My Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Petition to TSR re: Mystara At 09:57 11-03-98 -0500, you wrote: >Hail and well met fellow Mystarans, >Please read and comment constructively on the letter that follows. The purpose of the letter is to demonstrate for WotC the powerful following Mystara has and to encourage them to resurrect Mystara as a setting. If you do agree with this noble goal please e-mail me privately (jdaly@friend.ly.net) with your name and e-mail address. You should have mine by now, otherwise let me know. >Jenni Merrifield is going to post to the newsgroups and update me with a list of names from there. How about also showing that there is an interest by contacting TSR's Dragon and Dungeon Magazines with articles and adventure suggestions, that might also get their attention? Lille My *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 09:07:26 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Combat situations At 09:52 AM 3/12/98 EST, you wrote: >I don't recall the D&D rules, but AD&D says that the spell won't be lost. If the wizard is distracted or hit in combat he or she may not be able to cast the spell, but it's still memorized and can be cast later. Crypt, If he's in the middle of casting and gets hit, the spell is lost as if he did cast it. Wiped completely from memory. I believe that's true in both systems. Another reason to keep mages out of the fray ;) _____________________________________ This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 09:19:38 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Petition to TSR re: Mystara At 04:01 PM 3/12/98 +0100, you wrote: >How about also showing that there is an interest by contacting TSR's Dragon and Dungeon Magazines with articles and adventure suggestions, that might also get their attention? Dragon and Dungeon always respond that they would love to do such articles if someone would submit them. BTW, Bruce's Rakasta article will be in DRAGON #247. I got my #246 the other day and it listed it as one of the next issue's features. They even added 'of Mystara' in the listing though the picture of the cover just says 'The Rakasta' ;) Also, to get TSR to notice the fan base of Mystara, try posting on their message board at their site. I know Bruce makes regular appearences there and it's probably the easiest place for them to notice us first. I know it's tough putting up with a web-based bulletin board but they're suppose to be getting it available by newsreaders soon. _____________________________________ This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 10:33:56 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Petition to TSR re: Mystara At 09:19 AM 3/12/98 -0600, you wrote: >At 04:01 PM 3/12/98 +0100, you wrote: >>How about also showing that there is an interest by contacting TSR's Dragon and Dungeon Magazines with articles and adventure suggestions, that might also get their attention? >Dragon and Dungeon always respond that they would love to do such articles if someone would submit them. I think the idea of submitting articles is excellent. I mean, we have several great writers in this group and we ought to be able to barrage them with so much good stuff they can't ignore us. Like Jenni said, we don't want to spam them with e-mail. But I believe a mass submission to these mags would be a different matter. Everyone start writing! BTW, Bruce's Rakasta article will be in >DRAGON #247. I got my #246 the other day and it listed it as one of the next issue's features. They even added 'of Mystara' in the listing though the picture of the cover just says 'The Rakasta' ;) I cannot wait! >Also, to get TSR to notice the fan base of Mystara, try posting on their message board at their site. Can you post the address? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 10:55:37 EST From: Neal Daskal Subject: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Weaponry and Injuries >The English Yew longbow was and is a fine weapon. The panic it caused was devastating. I cannot remember the battle's name, but the English longbowmen decimated the pride of the French by slaying their noble knights while they charged. "The end of the world" aspect could be explained by the deaths of the aristocratic knights. f the Agincourt? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 09:58:38 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Petition to TSR re: Mystara At 10:33 AM 3/12/98 -0500, you wrote: >>Also, to get TSR to notice the fan base of Mystara, try posting on their message board at their site. >Can you post the address? You can reach it at http://www.tsr.com/ go to the chat/messaging option and pick messaging. It will take a while to load since it will be your first time there. They have a lot of different boards but Mystara is there with the other settings. Just remember, it's slow at times which is what lends it to be so frustrating at times. _____________________________________ This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: 12 Mar 1998 10:21:29 -0600 From: Alan Shutko Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara >>>>>"D" == Daly writes: D> I don't see Rad as evil. He is for open study. He is for freedom. D> He believes in his cause. He just does not realize the extent to D> which he has taken it till the very end. Hmmm... he's for open study, regardless how it hurts and destroys others. He's for his freedom to do as he likes, regardless of the consequences. He is willing to cause massive devastation in support of this. There's at least a very good case that he's evil, and I think that's how he'll end up in my campaign. (Actively evil, no. But ignorant of his own evil, yes.) - -- Alan Shutko - By consent of the corrupted Your program is sick! Shoot it and put it out of its memory. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 18:37:33 +0100 From: Lorenzo Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's fate: our fault? Daly wrote: >To: "Thomas M. Reid" >CC: "Bill Slavicsek" RE: The resurrection of Mystara >Dear sirs, >As the faithful consumers of the Mystaran product line, we would like to see the setting return either as a full line or as an independent accessory. >We are aware that Wizards of the Coast does not currently believe they can successfully present any material based in Mystara. However it is our firm belief that Mystara's earlier sales are more reflective of the then current attempt to direct the setting toward beginning players. The experienced players had no reason to by the products and so the setting faltered. >A small but strong "test product" would be supported by all those signed here. We fervently hope you consider this. >"Jeff Daly" This is great. Consider me with you: I'll give all I can to make Jeff's project reality. I think we should seriously consider this opportunity, and send it as soon as we can, so at least we can say that we have done what was possible for the cause. Furhter, I think that everyone of us that has some Mystaran blood in his veins should personally insist on his own emailing TSR and convincing friends to do the same, as Peter wrote: >We should also try to find some people personally, for example I will ask all my roleplaying friends, if they would be willing to support this idea. Lorenzo "Morgan" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 18:39:20 +0100 From: Lorenzo Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Fate of Mystara brunciak@erols.com wrote: >Lastly, I believe that the conversion of it into AD&D 2nd Edition Rules was its downfall. I used to play in other worlds until a friend said, "Hey Bob, there is this new world that TSR created called Mystara." I bought K:KoA and though tit a so-so product. I think, however, that nowadays we should think only of new AD&D products. AD&D has a better marketing and if we insist on TSR to publish other modules of the old D&D, we'll go aganist sure failure. IMHO TSR will go on only with the AD&D Mystara setting. Lorenzo. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 18:52:10 +0100 From: Lorenzo Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Combat situations Inconu wrote: ><< Until the latter has completed the >casting, the former already had the opportunity to slice him down (10 long seconds). >I wonder ... how do you avoid the problem in your campaigns ? >> >That's where initiative comes into play. If the mage wins inititive then the spell is cast successfully and the effects occur before the fighter may act. If the fighter wins it, and hits...then the spell is lost.. >-Inconu You did not understand what was my topic. I said that, even if it has low initiative, a 10 secs-round is too long for delivering a sword blow. Though a Highlander can parry a lot of blow before being hit, a wizard can't. That I said. Read again my post. I'm sorry if my writing causes incomprensions, it depends only on my scarse knowledge of the language. Lorenzo "Morgan". *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #161 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Thursday, March 12 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 162 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Petition to TSR re: Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's fate: our fault? Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's fate: our fault? Fwd: Re(3): [MYSTARA] - Mystara's fate: our fault? [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Bards Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Petition to TSR re: Mystara [MYSTARA] - Re(3): Mystara [MYSTARA] - SAVE MYSTARA [MYSTARA] - Saving Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - The Fate of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Saving Mystara [MYSTARA] - AD&D Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 13:08:27 EST From: Dleggend Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Petition to TSR re: Mystara In a message dated 98-03-12 10:39:09 EST, you write: << Dragon and Dungeon always respond that they would love to do such articles if someone would submit them. BTW, Bruce's Rakasta article will be in DRAGON #247. I got my #246 the other day and it listed it as one of the next issue's features. They even added 'of Mystara' in the listing though the picture of the cover just says 'The Rakasta' ; >> Mystara could still be kept alive if we write articles and modules that take place in mystara. Besides when you write a module and send it to Dungeon mag and they print it, you get paid! Dleggend@aol.com Enter Dleggend's Page http://members.aol.com/dleggend/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 13:53:17 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's fate: our fault? First I want to thank everyone who has signed on so far. The list grows on an hourly basis and I am grateful for everyone's support. I really believe we have a chance at this! >Furhter, I think that everyone of us that has some Mystaran blood in his veins >should personally insist on his own emailing TSR and convincing friends to do the same, as Peter wrote: I strongly discourage everyone from e-mailing TSR on their own. Like Jenni said, "We will not impress them with a mass spamming." >>We should also try to find some people personally, for example I will ask all my roleplaying friends, if they would be willing to support this idea. Absolutely. This Saturday I will be asking ALL those I game with to aid us in our cause. Everyone of them has played in my game at least once and enjoyed it. Send me names! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 11:48:59 -0800 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's fate: our fault? At 01:53 PM 3/12/98 -0500, Daly wrote: >At some time, on some date, someone else wrote FFFurhter, I think that everyone of us that has some Mystaran blood in his veins should personally insist on his own emailing TSR and convincing friends to do the same, as Peter wrote: >I strongly discourage everyone from e-mailing TSR on their own. Like Jenni said, "We will not impress them with a mass spamming." Actually, individuals who want to send a personalized message to WotC/TSR should be encouraged to do so. In fact, sending a message 'snail mail' is more likely to garner interest from the "powers that be" than simple email (the more effort involved, the more committed you appear). With the petition, I was only concerned that some people might take it and forward multiple additional copies of it to TSR, possibly duplicating names. Jenni: PS: I have not yet sent the message out the newsgroups -- I've been having trouble connecting to the net from home, and I don't have access to newsgroups from work.-JAMM - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield http://www.jamm.com/jenni/home.html - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- strawberry@jamm.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 14:07:50 -0600 From: Patriarch@cmnwrld.com (Patriarch) Subject: Fwd: Re(3): [MYSTARA] - Mystara's fate: our fault? This Is the Message I think it will be up today. I have not recieved an answer yet. THis is something the MML want to do Right?!?!? I dont want to have set something set-up if no one else is going to use it or thinks its a good Idea. >rickard@cmnwrld.com writes: >jdaly@friend.ly.net,Internet writes: >>>>At 12:56 PM 3/10/98 -0800, you wrote: AAAAAAt 01:29 PM 3/10/98 -0500, Daly wrote: OOOOOOOk. How about this...We compile a list of names/e-mail addresses(for IIII could have a junk email box collect e-mail support of names, info and messages for the cause! 70% of my company members play Mystara! >Wow! Do it! Do it! Do it! >Go around and get everyone's name and give it to me privately via e-mail! >It would >>>not be a problem and would be supported here. Supporters could put a llink >>>to the email address from their Mystara pages and in news groups. >Sounds good! >When we >>>were ready we could sift through the emails and collect the addresses aand >>>messages! We could have a 'SAVE MYSTARA' page 'FREE MYSTARA' for more information on what we were doing. >Great! Hop to it! I will continue posting to the list. - -------------------------------------- MML member Patriarch has pass this to me. I will do this. In the next day I will release the email address for the email support, and also a link for any and all to read them via web browser. Any one want to create a webpage for this great and worthy cause. If you do please email it to ME with all the gif too. We will publish it but can not make the time to create it. (way to many projects) Please email any comment to me mailto:rickard@cmnwrld.com thank you and good luck! Rob Rickard Common World inc. mailto:Rickard@cmnwrld.com http://CWSpot.com/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 15:12:17 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Bards At 07:07 AM 3/12/98 EST, you wrote: ><< 2.4 Rogue >>>Bard: Can be used normally. I generally think that they have too much spell power though. Maybe this should be limited. Darokin Mercheant could be a Bard kit. >>Get rid of the magic ability (what does that have to do with singing anyway?). Not just cut it down get rid of it completely. >> >I agree. Why was this ability ever given to bards? Okay, look at the original bard (AD&D 1st edition). Druid spells, lots of rule variations, annoying. Then look at Dragon magazine, issue #65 (I think). Article on bards, vastly improving the character and much easier to play. Replaces druid abilities with illusion spells. The article was reprinted in Best of Dragon #3. When 2nd edition was produced, they looked at this version, and said it was good. So they used it as the base for the character. As to why give them magic, try playing a bard with no magical abilities. He's a second-rate thief without the useful thieving skills; no lock picking, no trap abilities. Nearly useless in the dungeon. The magic gives him an equalizer, and adds to the idea of the bard as a 'jack-of-all-trades'. However we choose to look at bards, however, we need to fit them into Mystara. Bards, by their nature, can fit anywhere, but where are they more likely to be found? The Northern Reaches would have lots of them (skalds), and they would be comfortable in Darokin (I see that nation as being a rather swashbuckling place). Of course, the Savage Coast would see lots of bards, again because of the swashbuckling idea. As spell-casters, they would be welcome in what's left of Glantri and Alphatia, although the Glantrians might have a problem with these 'renegade' spellcasters. If nothing else, they would have to be licensed, like other Glantrian mages. And of course, Robrenn, that semi-Celtic land, would have bards as well as druids. Ierendi would be a popular place for bards, as well. Bards can, as I said, fit virtually anywhere, since their nature as 'jacks-of-all-trades' gives them the ability to find a niche regardless of where they go. Bards aren't a power-gamer's class, unless one uses the multi-class options in the Complete Bard's Handbook, which is another thread altogether and not useful to Mystara. They can fill the gaps in an adventuring party, however, and their natural personality and charm (minimum 15 Charisma) makes them useful even outside of a combat role. Having a back-up wizard around never hurts, and they can do some sneaking, too. They aren't as good as anyone else is in the different specialties, but they are, again, good backups. Never underestimate a bard; they have lots of ways of helping out. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 15:16:16 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara At 07:22 AM 3/12/98 EST, you wrote: >There is an AD&D supplement "Skills and Powers" (don't get it thought, only about 10 pages are worth reading in it. Anyways, they have one suggested addition to elves. >Spell abilities: Once a day the elf can cast faerie fire, dancing lights, and a light/darkness spell as a priest or wizard of the same level. When the character reaches 4th level, he can add levitate, detect magic, and know alignment. >Does this help? Those who sweat at the thought of converting Mystara to AD&D will cringe in horror at the thought of using Skills and Powers; TSR's answer to munchkin prayers. From your own post, try to match those abilities with a all-too-common AD&D race. Can you say, Drow? Who wants to turn the Mystaran elves into Caucasian Drow? Raise your hands... No, I didn't think so. Skills and Powers is just too ridiculous for Mystara. Ick. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 22:37:00 +0100 From: Lorenzo Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Petition to TSR re: Mystara Lille My wrote: >>Jenni Merrifield is going to post to the newsgroups and update me with a list of names from there. >How about also showing that there is an interest by contacting TSR's Dragon and Dungeon Magazines with articles and adventure suggestions, that might also get their attention? >Lille My That is good. As I said before, we have to do all that is possible to make our beloved setting alive again. I've just contacted some old friends and convinced them to post directly to TSR. That not being enough, I went to my city's RPG shop and posted a message for all to see ... If you have any other idea on how to spread the news that something is in progress to resurrect Mystara, please let me know. Lorenzo. PS. Daly: would you like to add in your address list those my friends ? A personal message addressed to you is upcoming. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 18:09:20 -0500 From: Daly Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re(3): Mystara >Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 16:49:32 -0600 >Subject: Re(3): Mystara >From: Rickard@cmnwrld.com (Rob Rickard) Priority: normal >To: jdaly@Friend.ly.Net, Patriarch@cmnwrld.com >Sorry for the Wait. Please post this to the MML so all who care about Mystara can email their thoughts to a junk email account for future use. Please post this on all your Mystara webpages! >Please email your 'save Mystara' message to: mailto:SaveMystara@CmnWrld.com >You can view them at: (system might be up 100% of the time) http://CmnWrld.com/ForumBin/SaveMystara/ >If someone would like to build a web page to support this cause please email it to Rickard@cmnwrld.com. >Rob Rickard >Common World inc. >mailto:Rickard@cmnwrld.com >http://CWSpot.com/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 17:18:27 -0600 From: Patriarch@cmnwrld.com (Patriarch) Subject: [MYSTARA] - SAVE MYSTARA rickard@cmnwrld.com wrote: Sorry for the Wait. Please post this to the MML so all who care about Mystara can email their thoughts to a junk email account for future use. Please post this on all your Mystara webpages! Please email you 'save Mystara' message to: mailto:SaveMystara@CmnWrld.com You can view them at: (system might be up 100% of the time) http://CmnWrld.com/ForumBin/SaveMystara/ If a someone would like to build a web page to support this cause please email it to Rickard@cmnwrld.com. Rob Rickard Common World inc. mailto:Rickard@cmnwrld.com http://CWSpot.com/ - ---------------------- Show your support! Write a warm hearted letter about how you would purchase and support Mystara. Maybe give a few Ideas for TSR when they do release it again! Patriarch mailto:Patriarch@cmnwrld.com Where I net game http://CWSpot.com/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 17:24:49 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: [MYSTARA] - Saving Mystara I am glad that the snowball of support for Mystara is gathering, but something occurs to me: Why are we assuming that the only way to save Mystara is to get TSR to publish more material? Contributors to this list have already proven that we are just as capable as TSR of producing quality material (maybe even more so), and we have been doing it all for free. If everyone wants more published material, how about this: why don't we consider forming a cooperative and purchasing the rights to Mystara from TSR (how much can a dead world cost?), then publishing our own stuff? As far as costs go, if there is really such demand then we ought to be able to recoup our investments; if not each of us will have lost just a small amount in exchange for the right to treat our own material as canon. Alternatively, how about requesting that Wizards of the Coast publish more material, but that they hire us (or some of us from this list) to do the writing? After all, list members are better qualified than almost anyone else to produce quality Mystara material (especially considering that Bruce is still with us). So what is to be gained by having non-Mystarans write material and then us having to pay high store prices to get it? I have no interest in being exploited by TSR, which is after all a business, not a public service. All that would be required would be a little bit of thought and organization on our part, and the willingness to pool resources that might otherwise go towards TSR profits (since we are all pretty much consumers, Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 21:53:16 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #162 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 3a597fd32709a68ea2d4bc3b0e9f50e6 we might as well be investors). Everything I have suggested would be perfectly legal, workable, and infinitely preferable to how things are usually done in the gaming world (decreasing quality and increasing cost). The only trick is getting WotC to go along with it ... but we can at least see what they have to say, right? thanks for listening, m@2 "You're not really in love with yourself - you're just in love with the idea of being in love with yourself" - said to me by one of the two little fellas who hang out on either of my shoulders ... I can't remember which ... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 20:34:05 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara >>Get rid of the magic ability (what does that have to do with singing anyway?). Not just cut it down get rid of it completely. >> >I agree. Why was this ability ever given to bards? Well, if you're interested, Marco and I are working on a new bard class, loosely based on the one Bruce proposed in Dragon - except that there are some significant changes, namely the introduction of "spell-songs" - a new twist on magic. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 20:36:21 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara In a message dated 98-03-12 03:21:29 EST, galwylin@airnet.net writes: >If Mystara did go on a true law/chaos axis then there would be just as good aa chance of evil Immortals in other spheres beside entropy. No quarrel there! Let me amend my earlier suggestion, then. All but one of the immortal Spheres has an alignment bias in the D&D rules. This bias is not the alignment of every Immortal in that Sphere but represents a general tendency inherent in the sphere: Energy: Chaotic Matter: Lawful Thought: No bias Time: Neutral Entropy: Evil Rad and Nyx provide excellent examples of the interactions between alignment and Sphere: Rad: Rad's alignment in D&D is Lawful, even though he is a member of the Sphere of Energy, with chaotic tendencies. The feud between him and Ixion (of same sphere and Neutral alignment) was clearly not driven by alignment or Sphere differences. But it is easy to see how the imperatives of the Sphere of Energy did result in the spread of chaos, despite the intentions of Rad and Ixion. When Etienne created the Doomsday Weapon, he was taking actions that in AD&D terms would have caused his alignment to shift towards Evil. In D&D, he receives no such obvious guidance and thus drifts to his doom. The evil that he did was the result of his choices, maybe even of his situation -- but there was nothing in his Sphere or alignment that was driving him to do evil. Nyx: Nyx is clearly the most benevolent of the Immortals of Entropy, although the Milenians of the Hollow World might take issue with that statement. By its very goals the Sphere of Entropy is inimical to human and demi-human life, so members of those races who follow that Sphere tend to be nasty, evil types. Given the description of her personality, Nyx would probably be a saint if she followed any other Sphere. In the Sphere of Entropy, she is at best Neutral on the Good-Evil axis -- if her ultimate goals were carried out, the results would be most unfortunate for sentient mortals. She does not wish to do evil, but the goals of her Sphere do keep nudging her in that direction. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 20:36:24 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara In a message dated 98-03-12 07:38:05 EST, Inconu@aol.com writes: >There is an AD&D supplement "Skills and Powers" (don't get it thought, only aabout 10 pages are worth reading in it. Anyways, they have one suggested addition to elves. >Spell abilities: Once a day the elf can cast faerie fire, dancing lights, and a light/darkness spell as a priest or wizard of the same level. When the ccharacter reaches 4th level, he can add levitate, detect magic, and know alignment. >Does this help? Not really -- these spells are too obviously based on the innate abilities of Drow. Also, they don't fit in too well with the abilities of those Elves who actually do become Mages. Here is how I would handle them: - -- All Elves begin play with a single first level spell, determined randomly from all available spells except "Read Magic" and "Sleep". - -- For Hollow World Elves, the first level spell is automatically "Detect Magic". - -- Most Elves can cast spells while wearing armor up to chain mail but cannot progress in level. Hit dice are divided up among all classes plus the Mage class, in which they are stuck at first level (although certain special ceremonies may enhance the magical abilities of high level Elves, but not beyond half the level attained in the primary class or beyond level 4 in any case). - -- Elves who actually become Mages learn the spell "Read Magic" and can progress beyond level 1. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 20:41:40 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Fate of Mystara Lorenzo wrote: >I think, however, that nowadays we should think only of new AD&D products. AD&D has a better marketing and if we insist on TSR to publish other modules of the old D&D, we'll go aganist sure failure. IMHO TSR will go on only with the AD&D Mystara setting. While that might be all too likely (and a real shame, too!), I think that it would not be unreasonable to have TSR put endnotes in adventures or other products, to the effect of: ******************example************** Note for D&D users: Instead of the Staff of the Magi, give NPC X a Staff of (whatever) Subsitute the orogs for hobgoblins. and so on... Perhaps I'm being too optimistic, but I really don't think this would stretch their resources. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 20:45:45 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Quoth Glen: >Can you say, Drow? >Who wants to turn the Mystaran elves into Caucasian Drow? Raise your hands... >No, I didn't think so. Skills and Powers is just too ridiculous for Mystara. Ick. Precisely why I like Mystara the way it way BEFORE all this nonsense happened - ie: conversion to AD&D - powergamers, here we come! Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 20:57:24 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Saving Mystara Matt Levy wrote: >I am glad that the snowball of support for Mystara is gathering, but something occurs to me: Why are we assuming that the only way to save Mystara is to get TSR to publish more material? Contributors to this list have already proven that we are just as capable as TSR of producing quality material (maybe even more so), and we have been doing it all for free. If everyone wants more published material, how about this: why don't we consider forming a cooperative and purchasing the rights to Mystara from TSR (how much can a dead world cost?), then publishing our own stuff? While I fantasized about this privately to some members on the list last summer, how feasible would it be? How much would WotC be willing to sell the rights to Mysrara? >As far as costs go, if there is really such demand then we ought to be able to recoup our investments; if not each of us will have lost just a small amount in exchange for the right to treat our own material as canon. Leroy, how many official members are there on the list, out of curiosity? Provided there were enough, and WotC was willing, I would be willing to sink capital into this, but this seems too good to be true, Matt. >Alternatively, how about requesting that Wizards of the Coast publish more material, but that they hire us (or some of us from this list) to do the writing? After all, list members are better qualified than almost anyone else to produce quality Mystara material (especially considering that Bruce is still with us). So what is to be gained by having non-Mystarans write material and then us having to pay high store prices to get it? I have no interest in being exploited by TSR, which is after all a business, not a public service. This seems safer to me. I have no qualms about submitting the body of material I've written for Mystara to TSR/WotC, if they were willing to publish it. Hell, I'd even be willing to give it to them without trying to get royalties or any monetary compensation, so long as I got a firm commitment from them that they would publish. >All that would be required would be a little bit of thought and organization on our part, and the willingness to pool resources that might otherwise go towards TSR profits (since we are all pretty much consumers, we might as well be investors). Everything I have suggested would be perfectly legal, workable, and infinitely preferable to how things are usually done in the gaming world (decreasing quality and increasing cost). The only trick is getting WotC to go along with it ... but we can at least see what they have to say, right? There's certainly no harm in asking them. They might even admire us for our guts, or things could go the other way. In any case, showing that kind of willingness to work for Mystara is bound to attract their attention, and maybe, just maybe, they'll sit up and take notice that everyone on this list cares enough about their world to sacrifice time and money towards it - as some of us already do (I usually average 6 hours a week writing my materials, on top of a job and my campaign group, for example). If we're willing to sacrifice this much, when we (individually) have so little, then perhaps they (and WotC is NOT poor by any stretch of the imagination) might be willing to meet us halfway and publish again, or re-release old materials. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 21:01:49 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Just a quick note - I DO NOT have any axes to grind against AD&D players, if such was construed from my earlier post. That said, my experiences with AD&D have almost all been negative, surrounded by munchkins who only care about self-aggrandizement. While this can happen in any game, the prevalence of these experiences in AD&D has just left a bad taste in my mouth, as it were. Again, my apologies if I hurt anyone's feelings out there, but this is just how I feel about that system. Nothing more, nothing less. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 21:20:24 EST From: Magesmiley Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara In a message dated 98-03-11 09:10:32 EST, you write: << 2.5 Psionicist If they exist they replace the D&D Mystics. They exist in the mountains of Glantri, on the Isle of Dawn and in Sind. They are warrior monks and should learn appropriate proficiencies for such people. >> What I have done with the psionicist is have them replace the Master class available to the halflings, and only allow halflings to be psionicists (currently). Essentially the Masters are an order of psionicists in my campaign, and the only source of psionic training. - -Mage *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 98 18:19:00 PST From: MichaelX Harvey Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Adapting AD&D to Mystara Regarding elves, magic, and AD&D: why not just require that all elves be multiclassed, with Magic-User as one of their classes? This means their options are F/MU, T/MU, F/T/MU, C/MU, etc. It preserves the slower advancement elves have in Mystara, duplicates their magical abilities, and uses *standard* AD&D rules. Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 21:46:58 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara At 08:36 PM 3/12/98 EST, you wrote: >In a message dated 98-03-12 03:21:29 EST, galwylin@airnet.net writes: >>If Mystara did go on a true law/chaos axis then there would be just as good aaa chance of evil Immortals in other spheres beside entropy. >No quarrel there! Let me amend my earlier suggestion, then. All but one of the immortal Spheres has an alignment bias in the D&D rules. This bias is not the alignment of every Immortal in that Sphere but represents a general tendency inherent in the sphere: Just let me put the garden shears away... Okay, let's consider some of the Immortals in their spheres. Rad and Nyx are mentioned, but what about Rathanos? Sphere of Energy, not a nice person. Pearl, Sphere of Matter; nasty dragon Immortal. Karaash, Immortal of Thought, and patron of humanoids. Not really a nice guy. And then there's Hel, who (somewhat surprisingly) is rated as Neutral and in charge of reincarnation. Not exactly the nasty witch-queen of Norse mythology. There are several minor immortals from non-Entropic spheres who are just as nasty as some of the Entropic Immortals. Especially, look at the humanoid immortals (Bartziluth, Crakkak of the Sharp Tooth, etc.). So it's not just the Entropics who are totally evil and nasty. But just about everyone in the Sphere of Entropy is, with the possible exception of Nyx (depending on who you ask). Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #162 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, March 13 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 163 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Saving Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's fate: our fault? Re: [MYSTARA] - Combat situations Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's fate: our fault? [MYSTARA] - threads and stuff Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatian Efficiency and Guilds Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Combat situations Re: [MYSTARA] - Combat situations Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Bards Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - threads and stuff Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 20:49:36 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Oh, another thread I like! At 08:36 PM 3/12/98 EST, you wrote: >Energy: Chaotic >Matter: Lawful >Thought: No bias >Time: Neutral >Entropy: Evil Only one problem. You've added Evil to Entropy. Remember this is only on the Law/Chaos axis. If you add evil to Entropy then you'll have to toss good up there somewhere. My first reaction is to say Entropy is Chaotic but Entropy is following Law pretty well. Unfortunately, the Immortals of Entropy are protrayed as Chaotic completely ignoring the fact that it is a lawful progression of being. I suppose we have to go with Chaotic then. >Rad and Nyx provide excellent examples of the interactions between alignment and Sphere: >Rad: Rad's alignment in D&D is Lawful, even though he is a member of the Sphere of Energy, with chaotic tendencies. The feud between him and Ixion (of same sphere and Neutral alignment) was clearly not driven by alignment or Sphere differences. But it is easy to see how the imperatives of the Sphere of Energy did result in the spread of chaos, despite the intentions of Rad and Ixion. >When Etienne created the Doomsday Weapon, he was taking actions that in AD&D terms would have caused his alignment to shift towards Evil. In D&D, he receives no such obvious guidance and thus drifts to his doom. The evil that he did was the result of his choices, maybe even of his situation -- but there was nothing in his Sphere or alignment that was driving him to do evil. You're right. There is nothing about any of the spheres that drive to either good or evil. That is the Immortal's personal choice on how he approaches his problems. To me, Rad still struck out in believing the easy way was the best way. I think in AD&D, he would be considered chaotic evil since he acts selfishly with out regard to others. I'm not sure I like it either but if I look at as it seems then he is evil. Maybe not the 'mad professor' evil but has allowed his search for knowledge to blind him to the real need of others (especially their need for live). I'm sure the sphere of entropy got a boost when he activated that device. What makes his crime so bad is that he brought this on. Not only did he refuse to allow other Immortals have a say in what should be, he then set about making the weapon that would wipe a 1000 year empire completely off the surface. Very bad in my opinion. >Nyx: Nyx is clearly the most benevolent of the Immortals of Entropy, although the Milenians of the Hollow World might take issue with that statement. By its very goals the Sphere of Entropy is inimical to human and demi-human life, so members of those races who follow that Sphere tend to be nasty, evil types. >Given the description of her personality, Nyx would probably be a saint if she followed any other Sphere. In the Sphere of Entropy, she is at best Neutral on the Good-Evil axis -- if her ultimate goals were carried out, the results would be most unfortunate for sentient mortals. She does not wish to do evil, but the goals of her Sphere do keep nudging her in that direction. Nyx believes the world would really be a better place if undead ruled. Unlike Rad, she hasn't attempted to make that happen by direct action. She may nudge here or there and not be disappointed if some new undead show up but so far she has learned that she is bound by certain rules. I agree that she is Neutral possibly lawful neutral in AD&D since she shows that laws are important to her. This is really a tough call but I'm pretty sure that she isn't evil. Now if she were going around killing mortals for undead then we might have a case. _____________________________________ This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 21:02:10 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Adapting AD&D to Mystara At 06:19 PM 3/12/98 PST, you wrote: >Regarding elves, magic, and AD&D: why not just require that all elves be multiclassed, with Magic-User as one of their classes? This means their options are F/MU, T/MU, F/T/MU, C/MU, etc. It preserves the slower advancement elves have in Mystara, duplicates their magical abilities, and uses *standard* AD&D rules. Well, really, I don't have a problem with that but to be fair I think you should also require elves unable to be straight mages. That way, all elves are stunted in level growth. Heh, I knew this converting from the sophisticated rules of D&D was going to be tough. ;) _____________________________________ This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 20:52:26 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara One thing I forgot to add in my last post is that the reason I didn't assign any good or evil to the spheres is that I feel they encompass larger ideas and so have to be defined by simplier terms. _____________________________________ This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 20:57:35 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D At 09:01 PM 3/12/98 -0500, you wrote: >Just a quick note - I DO NOT have any axes to grind against AD&D players, if such was construed from my earlier post. That said, my experiences with AD&D have almost all been negative, surrounded by munchkins who only care about self-aggrandizement. While this can happen in any game, the prevalence of these experiences in AD&D has just left a bad taste in my mouth, as it were. >Again, my apologies if I hurt anyone's feelings out there, but this is just how I feel about that system. Nothing more, nothing less. As a user of AD&D (is there a support group? ;) I can see where you're coming from and I think this is a design flaw. Forcing the DM and players to deal with so many numbers and tables does push the role playing aspects back. It can be done but it takes effort. Luckily, I've been able to play alright though I do forget one of my rolls or abilities because they're not natural to the character once I get into him. Adding the + and subtracting this - when you're just trying to hit a orc is enough to confuse me. This is one reason I like kits but don't pay much attention to their plus/minus. I just want to have a good time, not fill out a spreadsheet ;) _____________________________________ This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 23:42:23 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara In a message dated 98-03-12 21:34:45 EST, Magesmiley@aol.com writes: >What I have done with the psionicist is have them replace the Master class aavailable to the halflings, and only allow halflings to be psionicists (currently). Essentially the Masters are an order of psionicists in my campaign, and the only source of psionic training. That seems a bit extreme. A more realistic approach (which I am still working on) might be to define Halfling Masters as a Specialist Priest class. What we would need to do is review the spell list from Gaz 8 to determine the appropriate spell spheres to grant to this class. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 23:42:19 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara In a message dated 98-03-12 22:18:51 EST, galwylin@airnet.net writes: >Only one problem. You've added Evil to Entropy. Remember this is only on tthe Law/Chaos axis. If you add evil to Entropy then you'll have to toss good up there somewhere. My first reaction is to say Entropy is Chaotic but Entropy is following Law pretty well. Unfortunately, the Immortals of Entropy are protrayed as Chaotic completely ignoring the fact that it is a lawful progression of being. I suppose we have to go with Chaotic then. Okay, let me clarify my intentions here a bit better. The Sphere of Entropy can be regarded as "Evil" (in the sense that its goals are ultimately inimical to the best interests of any sentient life forms) and anyone associated with it can be regarded as at least "tainted" by Evil. Anyone who is dedicated to the Sphere of Entropy can be regarded as "corrupted", while anyone else retains some degree of moral choice. So Nyx is stuck as a member of the Evil "camp" even though she herself would probably be very reluctant to support the full extent of the goals of her Sphere. As for "Good" -- see PC 1 for a discussion of the (no longer existent) Sphere of "Integration". A character truly intent on "Good" would be aligned with that Sphere. However, since that Sphere no longer exists, "Good" is now best served by suppressing the Sphere of Entropy and keeping all of the other Spheres in balance. Unfortunately, no Immortal specifically supports that goal, so characters truly devoted to serving the cause of "Good" are to a large extent on their own. The Old Ones would quietly applaud the efforts of such characters, but they would not interfere. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 00:19:34 -0500 (EST) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Adapting AD&D to Mystara Well, one thing interesting on bjm's web page is a expansion of the demi-human races. He assumed the demi-human described in the rules are all fighters of the those races, as they are the one most common encountered by human. So he made other classes pregression table for the demi-human races, and also made all of them to 36th level max. I think that is a fairly workable idea. - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | UVa, Material Science Dept. |"Earth is too small and fragile a basket IPM Lab | for Mankind to keep all his eggs in." (804) 984-3789 | -- Robert Anson Heinlein *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 00:37:15 -0500 (EST) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Saving Mystara Matthew Levy pontificated: >free. If everyone wants more published material, how about this: why don't we consider forming a cooperative and purchasing the rights to Mystara from TSR (how much can a dead world cost?), then publishing our own stuff? I thought about that a bit. From what I heard, right to a game generally cost a few thousand dollars, but could go quite a bit higher. But I really don't see WotC selling the right to Mystara. For one thing, that amount of money meant nothing to them. If they believe they have any chance of realeasing it in the future, they probably will just sit on it. Especially I doubt they want a classic D&D campaign world out there competating with their other worlds. Also, they might felt Mystara is tied too closely to the rule system, and selling the game will endanger they right to D&D (I'm not a lawyer by any means, and I'm only guessing here). So, I really don't see them selling it. The only thing I see they might do is sell the right to produce supplements for Mystara, ie. you get the right to produce the next 3 almanics, for certain amount of money and certain percent of gross. It is possible that we can negociate with WotC for that, but it require a lot of organization and people with good knowledge in gaming industry and laws in that area. By the same token, I don't see WotC sell the right of Mystara to any other company. Nor do I really want SJG get the right to Mystara (as someone proposed), as I don't think SJG produce more than 2 supplements for any of their game world, nor do I think they are interested in having one flagship game world for GURPS. - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | UVa, Material Science Dept. |"Earth is too small and fragile a basket IPM Lab | for Mankind to keep all his eggs in." (804) 984-3789 | -- Robert Anson Heinlein *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 00:40:36 -0500 (EST) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's fate: our fault? Daly wrote: >Dear sirs, >As the faithful consumers of the Mystaran product line, we would like to see the setting return either as a full line or as an independent accessory. [rest of the letter sniped] Another thing you might want to mentioned in the letter is the demographic of Mystara players. That we seems to have higher percentage of older players, one who have more purchasing powers. - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 00:47:25 -0500 (EST) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Combat situations Lorenzo pontificated: >You did not understand what was my topic. I said that, even if it has low initiative, a 10 secs-round is too long for delivering a sword blow. >Though a Highlander can parry a lot of blow before being hit, a wizard can't. If the wizard have any friends, they will be delaying the swordsman. If the wizard is by himself, he might be doing some side stepping, flipping tables and chairs in front of the attacker, doing some parrying with the his staff, casting some minor magic that distract the attacker a bit, etc. This goes against the idea that a mage have to be mostly still to cast magic, so it will be up to you which way of thinking you like better. - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 09:15:43 +0200 (EET) From: Anias Pasi Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's fate: our fault? I'll just add some opposition to this most optimistic conversation here. Lorenzo "Morgan" wrote: >Daly wrote: <<< Most of The Letter snipped>>> >>A small but strong "test product" would be supported by all those signed here. We fervently hope you consider this. "supported"? What do you mean with this? Do You mean that You will buy the "test product", what ever it will be. For that is the only thing TSR _should_ be interested in. Personally I would not sign this letter, for I would not want to commit myself into bying something I have not a clue what it would be. >I think we should seriously consider this opportunity, and send it as soon as we can, so at least we can say that we have done what was possible for the cause. But IMHO You are wrong here. We are doing what is possible for the cause, Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 09:56:47 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #163 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 1972e319da68322f083a8be72c7ec084 by using the Mystara setting, and by creating new stuff and ideas for it in this forum. And for me, that is all I need. The stuff we make is good, better than I have seen from TSR for a long time. And I dont need to see it printed, as long as I can use it. I will much rather give credit and my aid to those in this list, than money to any gaming company. Nor would I be interested to have a company of our own. (Which would by the way be quite complicated thing in deed) >Furhter, I think that everyone of us that has some Mystaran blood in his veins should personally insist on his own emailing TSR and convincing friends to do the same, as Peter wrote: I have e-mailed to TSR back then, when they wanted it, during the buy-out. and I'm not inclined to do it again for a while. If they will someday print something to Mystara, I will consider Buying it, and if I like it, I might e-mail to ask for more. >>We should also try to find some people personally, for example I will ask all my roleplaying friends, if they would be willing to support this idea. Now, this is just what I ment. Ofcourse Your friends will be happy to sign the paper if it will make You happy. After all, they are Your friends. But will they Buy the product? If not, we are just giving TSR a too optimistic picture of the situation. And that will just lead into high expectations, failed by the test, and ending the line for good. So in conclusion. Personally, I am not willing to give TSR idle promises. They (with the help of WotC) should be able to decide on their own. And if they someday print something, I'll be happy to buy any good products. And while we are waiting, I'm happy to use our own inventions and all the old, great stuff allready in my possession. (And I dont even own ewerything available...) Pasi P.S. I would think anyway, that Mystara-products would be better sellers than Greyhawk... P.S.S. Thanks Leroy for the calendar, I found it quite usefull. P.S.S.S. I finally did it. My first gaming group (I have 2) is now playing with the MAGE system in Glantri. So far it's been great. I'll just have to finish the staff I've been doing, and I'll send it to You too. - -- X Pasi Anias X p.03 - 2533536 X \\|// X X Sammonkatu 28 A 18 X a122286@proffa X (o o) X X 33540 Tampere X .cc.tut.fi X o000--(_)--000o X *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 05:19:01 EST From: Flindor Subject: [MYSTARA] - threads and stuff Some of the stuff I've been reading has been on this list has been interesting but doesn't really help me in my campaign. Here's a couple threads I'd like to start: - -What's your favorite printed modules and why? - -What ones do you hate and why? - -Has anyone ever writen adventures for the other islands of the thanegioth archapelago? - -Does anyone know any homemade classic d&d modules on the net? where? there's a bunch of AD&D stuff but I can't find any on the classic stuff. When I got back into rpg's a year or two ago I chose classic d&d because it was less a burden to run than ad&d. One of my pet peeves was that ad&d became so overburdened with minutae that a gaming session would often grind to a halt because of conflicts over rules. I got tired of charts and subclasses and all the stuff that has nothing to do with adventuring specifically, and fun in general. This is the biggest strength of classic d&d in my opinion. While ad&d caters to the core fanatic player who has the time to study all those tomes (the core rules, the complete series etc., etc.) the player who wants to play CASUALLY is left out in the cold. I can only imagine what a teenage first-timer must go through when he wants to get into ad&d. Not only is all this stuff expensive but kind of intimidating when you think of all the material involved. I would love to see meaningful statistics to the numbers of new role players today! - -anyway, this turned out longer than I wanted but this is what I've had on my mind. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 12:35:56 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatian Efficiency and Guilds On Wed, 11 Mar 1998 brunciak@erols.com wrote: >Where is this going? Well, I've been reading a book on the Byzantine Empire and its economic layout. When it came to efficiency in business, the Byzantine's were the ones to see. Anyway, I started to think about Thyatis and the empire's love of efficiency and order. Considering that the Thyatian economy is strong (or was depending on what era you're in), I thought about the way the goverment controls the economy. Going on the assumption that the Thyatian Empire is a sort of Mystaran Byzantine Empire, I decided that the goverment controls the economy very strictly. Heh. You should have seen the player of Thyatis in my Mystaran Birthright PBeM. His first action was a decree that all trade in the Empire will be taxed quite severely :) ****************************************** Aleksei Andrievski k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi aka Solmyr, the Archmage of the Azure Star Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 13:08:17 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara On Thu, 12 Mar 1998, Galwylin wrote: >about selfishness as being a characteristic, I think Rad is and he's not in that sphere. Yep, that's right. I think Rad pulled that trigger on purpose and destroyed Alphatia and the intention of wiping out a whole people is evil in my mind. In my attempts to convert the Immortals to Rad's 'evilness' is certainly subjective. I mean, the Alphatian archmages were bombarding his city and people with spells, so what else could he do? He already sent a peace offer to Alphatia (which Zandor refused). By that criterium, you could see any ruler as evil (Stefan Karameikos is evil because he betrayed Thyatis, Doriath is evil because he flatly rejects the Shadow Elves, etc.). The point is, any ruler will do what is best for his people, evil or no evil. I generally tend to agree with Etienne's AD&D alignment definition, True Neutral - he cares about his studies, his friends, his people, but he is ruthless to his enemies. Actually, I think the alignments are not a very good rule in Mystara - there are so many shades of gray :) ****************************************** Aleksei Andrievski k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi aka Solmyr, the Archmage of the Azure Star Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 06:52:05 EST From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara << Quite simply because of the "mystic" quality surrounding real life bards. Really? Okay, well that does makes sense..... but i just don't think it all works together well in mystara. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 06:54:21 EST From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara << I don't see Rad as evil. He is for open study. He is for freedom. He believes in his cause. He just does not realize the extent to which he has taken it till the very end. >> With his attempts to utilize the nucleus of spheres after knowing the possible outcomes...and punishment Mystara would go through shows that his quest for knowledge superceeds everything else. Even at the expense of a planet. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 06:57:45 EST From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Combat situations << I don't recall the D&D rules, but AD&D says that the spell won't be lost. If the wizard is distracted or hit in combat he or she may not be able to cast the spell, but it's still memorized and can be cast later. --- -- --Criptonite >> Really???? hmm...okay, i'll check it out in the PH tonight. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 07:04:41 EST From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Combat situations << You did not understand what was my topic. I said that, even if it has low initiative, a 10 secs-round is too long for delivering a sword blow. >> Okay, I must have missunderstood. That is tough, unless you just played it by range. The fighter running up to reach mage and get an attack off before the spell is cast......but i realize that this can't happen every time. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 07:10:10 EST From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Bards << Never underestimate a bard; they have lots of ways of helping out. I think that WOTI probably would've inspired lots of bards to come out and start singing their tales, and tales of heroes in the war, and everything gained/lost in the war. I agree that Darokin would be a good place for these guys to come up from.... Perhaps there is room for these guys in Mystara. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 07:15:53 EST From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara In a message dated 98-03-12 15:40:26 EST, you write: << Those who sweat at the thought of converting Mystara to AD&D will cringe in horror at the thought of using Skills and Powers; TSR's answer to munchkin prayers. >> I couldn't agree with you more. Skills and Powers was one of the worst supplements they've ever come out with. Unfortunatly I bought it before i realized it. It's very difficult to get anything out of that book, but i just proposed the idea so that you might be able to morph it into something that might help out your campaigns. <> Once again, yes, you're right...Obviously these were the abilities given to drow. But the reason i posted it wasn't to make caucasian drow, believe me...I'd never suggest anything like that.....It's just the only AD&D supplement (that i could think of) that could possibly help in giveing elves those magical abilites regardless of class. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 07:19:29 EST From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara << Well, if you're interested, Marco and I are working on a new bard class, loosely based on the one Bruce proposed in Dragon - except that there are some significant changes, namely the introduction of "spell-songs" - a new twist on magic. Geoff >> Sounds good. Are you going to post it when it's completed? I would be interested. If not, could you just send it to me by private email? Thanks Geoff, - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 08:30:22 -0500 (EST) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - threads and stuff >-What's your favorite printed modules and why? Hmm...B4 because it was one of my first, because it allowed the DM a large say regarding plot and because it was filled with all sorts of opportunity for conflict. B10 is a favorite of many on the list and one of mine as well, because of a very well-done plot that can take up many game sessions and keep the players entertained the whole while. X3 has always been up there but I can't specify 'why'..maybe I just like having the priest have all the power.. CM1 and M2 I liked because of how well they develop Norworld. I greatly prefer their portrayal of the nation to that presented in the DoTE. IM1 and M3 are nice sorta-silly adventures with all the jumping from one realm to another. M1 is another high-level one I've had fun with..esp. the Odyssey-esque chapter. DA1 and DA3 (and to a lesser extent DA2) are all very nice also, simply because they build you a setting in good detail but leave you tons of room for personalization and improvisation. >-What ones do you hate and why? B6..they could've done a much better job of fleshing out the city and its politics. A mystery adventure should not have a fairly set series of events either. CM4 - another interesting concept that they didn't develop nearly as well as I would have liked. CM6?8?(Where Chaos Reigns)..one combat after another after another after another after another. This one has lots of potential but just isn't worth the effort to edit it into a playable form. Others I've played/run for reference sake:B1,B2,B3,B5,XL1,O1,O2,X6,X1,CM6?8? (Endless Stair),CM5? (Sylvan Realm one),IM2 >When I got back into rpg's a year or two ago I chose classic d&d because it was less a burden to run than ad&d. (Most of paragraph snipped) I couldn't agree more. I don't need tables for everything and find them more a nuisance than something useful. Especially with the Rules Cyclopedia, OD&D is a heckuva lot cheaper to start out on also. Islander Travis Green on the Penguins 1997 line of Mario Lemieux, Jaromir Jagr and Ron Francis (who is 10th in career NHL points): When you have Superman, Batman and Robin, they're going to get a few *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 16:00:37 +0100 From: Lille My Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara At 20:29 11-03-98 -0600, you wrote: >>2. Classes >>Paladin: There are no Paladins on Mystara. If you want to use them, I recommend that you create individual kits for followers of the various Immortals. Alternately you can have fighter PCs given certain abilities if the chose to devote their lives to an Immortal. >I like paladins but I would curb those abilities. Having all that because you're lawful good doesn't make sense to me. A paladin of an Immortal of healing (just who is that, btw?) can explain the laying on hands but why have the aura of protection from evil too? Suit these warriors up according to their faiths and not some broad brush. I agree, just as the priest are "specialized clerigs under a specific immortal", so should the paladins be likewise. An outstanding warrior chosen to serve a specific immortal. >>2.5 Psionicist >>If they exist they replace the D&D Mystics. They exist in the mountains of Glantri, on the Isle of Dawn and in Sind. They are warrior monks and should learn appropriate proficiencies for such people. >Give mystics a few psionic abilities (up that exp table though) but don't make them total psionic. The class is too high powered when there's not a counter balance (psionic foes). Limit the psioncists to one or two groups of psinoics, namely those which focus on psionicists own body, like the metaphysical. I think that would fit the idea of a mystic seeking to improve himself, his abilities are not outward affecting others (such as a fireball), but inward affecting himself (such as haste, to use the mage as an example) and through these studies he in certain cases can affect his surroundings (the healing ability and in some degree the combatabilities). Lille My *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #163 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 11:20:26 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #164 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: a7897cfa14185db20b9c3833d4687e98 mystara-digest Friday, March 13 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 164 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Bards Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D against OD&D (was - threads and stuff) Re: [MYSTARA] - Saving Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D [MYSTARA] - First Quest novels Re: [MYSTARA] - The Fate of Mystara [MYSTARA] - Mapping resources [MYSTARA] - re [MYSTARA] MYSTICS???? Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Bards Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Saving Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara [MYSTARA] - MAGE in Glantri (was: Mystara's fate...) Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Weaponry and Injuries Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - threads and stuff Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 16:05:09 +0100 From: Lille My Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara At 06:42 12-03-98 -0600, you wrote: >At 07:22 AM 3/12/98 EST, you wrote: >>There is an AD&D supplement "Skills and Powers" (don't get it thought, only about 10 pages are worth reading in it. Anyways, they have one suggested addition to elves. >>Spell abilities: Once a day the elf can cast faerie fire, dancing lights, and >>a light/darkness spell as a priest or wizard of the same level. When the character reaches 4th level, he can add levitate, detect magic, and know alignment. >>Does this help? >That's those drow abilities I was referring to. I think that's a little much just to have a little knowledge of magic. I would suggest using the cantrips printed in Uneathed Arcana (and in Best of Dragon I think, but can't remember the right issue of Dragon, but Dragon #200 have a wonderful article on D&D magic and has some suggestions too on "minor magic"), give the elves X free cantrips a day. Might rule that they are limited in such a way that they cannot be used in combat (either not deal any damage or be of no use at all). What do you think? Lille My *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 16:12:15 +0100 From: Lille My Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Bards At 15:12 12-03-98 -0500, Glen wrote: >However we choose to look at bards, however, we need to fit them into Mystara. Bards, by their nature, can fit anywhere, but where are they more likely to be found? The Northern Reaches would have lots of them (skalds), and they would be comfortable in Darokin (I see that nation as being a rather swashbuckling place). Of course, the Savage Coast would see lots of bards, again because of the swashbuckling idea. As spell-casters, they would be welcome in what's left of Glantri and Alphatia, although the Glantrians might have a problem with these 'renegade' spellcasters. If nothing else, they would have to be licensed, like other Glantrian mages. And of course, Robrenn, that semi-Celtic land, would have bards as well as druids. I think Bruce's article in Dragon about Robrenn does mention bards, besides the Druidic Knight. >Ierendi would be a popular place for bards, as well. The Hin have their storytellers and singers too, I would be surprised if they didn't have their own version of the class. In Ylaruam the role might be filled out by the barbers (SP?) (hope I got this right) and in Ierendi they might in certain cases act as tourguides (or is this too ridicules) and have their own special guild. Lille My *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 16:10:07 +0100 From: Lorenzo Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D against OD&D (was - threads and stuff) Flindor wrote: >-What's your favorite printed modules and why? B10, definitely. I like it. >When I got back into rpg's a year or two ago I chose classic d&d because it was less a burden to run than ad&d. One of my pet peeves was that ad&d became so overburdened with minutae that a gaming session would often grind to a halt because of conflicts over rules. I got tired of charts and subclasses and all the stuff that has nothing to do with adventuring specifically, and fun in general. This is the biggest strength of classic d&d in my opinion. While ad&d caters to the core fanatic player who has the time to study all those tomes (the core rules, the complete series etc., etc.) the player who wants to play CASUALLY is left out in the cold. But he CAN play without knowing all the rules. That's the point. The basic differences between AD&D and D&D are few, just a table for each attribute you have to consult the time you create the character and initiative rolled with 1d10 instead of 1d6.AD&D adds much more in the campaign, but *only if you want to*. This is my opinion. Lorenzo "Morgan". *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 16:10:16 +0100 From: Lorenzo Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Saving Mystara Shin Chyang Yu wrote: >I thought about that a bit. From what I heard, right to a game generally cost a few thousand dollars, but could go quite a bit higher. But I really don't see WotC selling the right to Mystara. For one thing, that amount of money meant nothing to them. If they believe they have any chance of realeasing it in the future, they probably will just sit on it. RIGHT ! You hit the spot !If we ask such a thing to TSR, they will think about the possibility of restabilishing the Mystara market. Before refusing, they will think about the reason. Here comes in play the proposal of the members of the list who are going to write something for TSR to publish for free. I think that would be impressive. Lorenzo. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 16:10:30 +0100 From: Lorenzo Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Galwylin wrote: >>Just a quick note - I DO NOT have any axes to grind against AD&D players, if such was construed from my earlier post. That said, my experiences with AD&D have almost all been negative, surrounded by munchkins who only care about self-aggrandizement. While this can happen in any game, the prevalence of these experiences in AD&D has just left a bad taste in my mouth, as it were. >>Again, my apologies if I hurt anyone's feelings out there, but this is just how I feel about that system. Nothing more, nothing less. >As a user of AD&D (is there a support group? ;) I can see where you're coming from and I think this is a design flaw. Forcing the DM and players to deal with so many numbers and tables does push the role playing aspects back. It can be done but it takes effort. Luckily, I've been able to play alright though I do forget one of my rolls or abilities because they're not natural to the character once I get into him. Adding the + and subtracting this - when you're just trying to hit a orc is enough to confuse me. This is one reason I like kits but don't pay much attention to their plus/minus. II just want to have a good time, not fill out a spreadsheet ;) >_____________________________________ >This has been a Galwylin© Production You are quite right. However, being an experienced AD&D player, I think that this system is really better than OD&D. Yes, it's true that rules/tables and such things may slow the game (indeed the first games were very slow - we ought to leaf through the handbook much of the time), but I have reason to say that this happens only the first times when the rules aren't well known by master and players. When you begin DMing an AD&D campaign you should set some parameters (because kits, expansions and similarities are really huge in quantity), then you have to create the characters (which is, too, a long operation). But in the end you will start your campaign and you will see - I'm sure - that AD&D rules offer much, much more variety and complexity: your campaign will be far-reaching and more amusing. My personal experience, though, has been a bit different: I started module B10 (IMO the best) using OD&D rules, then during the adventure we began adding new rules and options taken from that "Advanced D&D" we feared very much, such as the proficiency section and the multiclass rules. Only long after we declared that we should have played with the entire AD&D rules. I think I've written too much (after all this thread is not completely concerning with the purposes of the list), so I'll briefly conclude. I feel that D&D is a good and easy system, but it lacks a basic consideration that we can find in AD&D: the difference between classes and races. I want to play an elven thief !!!! Lorenzo. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 16:22:41 +0100 From: Sune Kloppenborg Jeppesen Subject: [MYSTARA] - First Quest novels Hi I was just reading the Dragonlord series. And I wondered which other novels were set in Mystara. I think I know all the official ones. But I think I read on the list that there were one (some?) of the First Quest novels that were set in Mystara. I'd like to know the names of these. Sune Kloppenborg Jeppesen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 09:28:38 -0600 (CST) From: Stephen Dolan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Fate of Mystara On Thu, 12 Mar 1998, Galwylin wrote: >Some how I think that WotC's Dominia (the MtG world) is already eyeing that spot. Ewwwww, I'm an avid MtG player and I even think that is a bad idea. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 10:26:23 -0500 From: Ray Brooks Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mapping resources A question for all you mapping gurus out there. A friend and I are working on some maps for a campaign world he is creating and we're looking for map-appropriate clipart and fonts. Does anyone have any ideas? What I'm thinking about are map symbols (little trees, mountains, hills, waves, compass points, etc.) whether they are clipart or done in a font style (sort of like those symbol fonts that you see around). Colour or black and white are both fine. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Ray *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 09:31:41 -0600 (CST) From: Stephen Dolan Subject: [MYSTARA] - re [MYSTARA] MYSTICS???? Ok, I have very few rule sources as far as D&D goes and i was wondering if someone could fill me in on the Mystic class. It sounds really intreaging to me and I would love to suggest to some of my players to try it out. But i need someone to let me in on the fun. :) Steve *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 09:26:20 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara At 07:15 AM 3/13/98 EST, you wrote: >I couldn't agree with you more. Skills and Powers was one of the worst supplements they've ever come out with. Unfortunatly I bought it before i realized it. It's very difficult to get anything out of that book, but i just proposed the idea so that you might be able to morph it into something that might help out your campaigns. I also bought S&P and found it involves more number crunching. What I haven't figured out is what exactly is it supposed to be. The only thing it seems useful for is for those that don't like the current classes of AD&D. I put it away after I saw that it seems to get rid of what the classes mean. Maybe later I'll go back through it but I think you either have classes or you don't. This in-between stuff is confusing. >Once again, yes, you're right...Obviously these were the abilities given to drow. But the reason i posted it wasn't to make caucasian drow, believe me...I'd never suggest anything like that.....It's just the only AD&D supplement (that i could think of) that could possibly help in giveing elves those magical abilites regardless of class. I could see giving elves inate magical ability but I'm curious why they had those. They didn't seem to be much like elves to me and when you listed them people saw them as drow abilities showing that they weren't well looked into for surface elves. A very strange book indeed. _____________________________________ This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 09:18:47 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Bards At 07:10 AM 3/13/98 EST, you wrote: >I think that WOTI probably would've inspired lots of bards to come out and start singing their tales, and tales of heroes in the war, and everything gained/lost in the war. I agree that Darokin would be a good place for these guys to come up from.... >Perhaps there is room for these guys in Mystara. I think bards in AD&D is one example of where the system has muddled the classes too much. While bards may have already existed on Mystara as an occupation, I don't see how they would rise from singing for money (and occasionally supplimenting that income with theivery) to singing for money and tossing a few spells. However, that spellsong sounds interesting and sounds like a more natural progression. _____________________________________ This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 09:13:52 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara At 01:08 PM 3/13/98 +0200, you wrote: >Rad's 'evilness' is certainly subjective. I mean, the Alphatian archmages were bombarding his city and people with spells, so what else could he do? He already sent a peace offer to Alphatia (which Zandor refused). By that criterium, you could see any ruler as evil (Stefan Karameikos is evil because he betrayed Thyatis, Doriath is evil because he flatly rejects the Shadow Elves, etc.). The point is, any ruler will do what is best for his people, evil or no evil. I generally tend to agree with Etienne's AD&D alignment definition, True Neutral - he cares about his studies, his friends, his people, but he is ruthless to his enemies. Actually, I think the alignments are not a very good rule in Mystara - there are so many shades of gray :) While evil is subjective, I always got the impression it was the NoS that was his primary concern. This was an Immortal problem he extrabated into a war on the mortal plain. Wasn't that peace offer after he had already destroyed a major city? Add to this the Galntri's discrimination of clerics to maintain that Rad is the sole beneficiary of Glantrians adoration. Maybe not evil but certainly on a power trip. _____________________________________ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 11:20:26 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #164 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: a7897cfa14185db20b9c3833d4687e98 This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 09:42:38 -0600 (CST) From: Stephen Dolan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara On Thu, 12 Mar 1998, Daly wrote: >I don't see Rad as evil. He is for open study. He is for freedom. He believes in his cause. He just does not realize the extent to which he has taken it till the very end. Ok, Here is a question that has been bothering me......What happened to Rad after he blew up the Device. Was he slaped on the the wrist? Was he punnished to suffer for eternity? Was he striped of his powers? If I was one of the other immortals i might have been just a little bit upset if one amoung us blew up a large country. steve *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 10:43:56 EST From: Neal Daskal Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Saving Mystara I like this idea, but I'd be surprised if TSR sells. Under the old regime they kept their "intellectual property" closely held whether they ever intended to use it or not (Universe anyone?). However given that the change in their online policy which occurred after the WotC buyout was a 180, it's worth trying. So who's gonna bell the cat? :) >I am glad that the snowball of support for Mystara is gathering, but something occurs to me: Why are we assuming that the only way to save Mystara is to get TSR to publish more material? Contributors to this list have already proven that we are just as capable as TSR of producing quality material (maybe even more so), and we have been doing it all for free. If everyone wants more published material, how about this: why don't we consider forming a cooperative and purchasing the rights to Mystara from TSR (how much can a dead world cost?), then publishing our own stuff? As far as costs go, if there is really such demand then we ought to be able to recoup our investments; if not each of us will have lost just a small amount in exchange for the right to treat our own material as canon. Alternatively, how about requesting that Wizards of the Coast publish more material, but that they hire us (or some of us from this list) to do the writing? After all, list members are better qualified than almost anyone else to produce quality Mystara material (especially considering that Bruce is still with us). So what is to be gained by having non-Mystarans write material and then us having to pay high store prices to get it? I have no interest in being exploited by TSR, which is after all a business, not a public service. >All that would be required would be a little bit of thought and organization on our part, and the willingness to pool resources that might otherwise go towards TSR profits (since we are all pretty much consumers, we might as well be investors). Everything I have suggested would be perfectly legal, workable, and infinitely preferable to how things are usually done in the gaming world (decreasing quality and increasing cost). The only trick is getting WotC to go along with it ... but we can at least see what they have to say, right? >thanks for listening, >m@2 >"You're not really in love with yourself - you're just in love with the idea of being in love with yourself" >- said to me by one of the two little fellas who hang out on either of my shoulders ... I can't remember which ... >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 16:51:44 +0100 From: Lille My Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D At 16:10 12-03-96 +0100, Lorenzo wrote: >You are quite right. However, being an experienced AD&D player, I think that this system is really better than OD&D. >Yes, it's true that rules/tables and such things may slow the game (indeed the >first games were very slow - we ought to leaf through the handbook much of the >time), but I have reason to say that this happens only the first times when the >rules aren't well known by master and players. When you begin DMing an AD&D campaign you should set some parameters (because kits, expansions and similarities are really huge in quantity), then you have to create the characters (which is, too, a long operation). But in the end you will start your campaign and you will see - I'm sure - that >AD&D rules offer much, much more variety and complexity: your campaign will be >far-reaching and more amusing. [snip] >I think I've written too much (after all this thread is not completely concerning with the purposes of the list), so I'll briefly conclude. I feel that D&D is a good and easy system, but it lacks a basic consideration that we can find in AD&D: the difference between classes and races. I want to play an elven thief !!!! I tend to play both things, though I am slowly leaning more and more over to D&D. As I see it, then AD&D has the advantage of many spells (but that is easy to convert to D&D), the combination of races and classes (which tend to make D&D a little bit stiff) and some amusing extra rules (psionics, some kits (I like when they change a class fundamentally, but some are plain boring or too powerful). In D&D I prefer the simple rules, it makes the game flow easier, but also the D&D combat system, which I like better in many cases. I actually have a dream about sitting down one day with all the rulebooks and come up with the perfect hybrid of the two gamesystems (AD&D race & class system, AD&D spells, AD&D initiative system and a few other changes, but otherwise the D&D system). Lille My *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 09:38:04 -0600 (CST) From: Stephen Dolan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara On Thu, 12 Mar 1998, Inconu wrote: >In a message dated 98-03-11 22:05:39 EST, you write: >There is an AD&D supplement "Skills and Powers" (don't get it thought, only about 10 pages are worth reading in it. Anyways, they have one suggested addition to elves. >Spell abilities: Once a day the elf can cast faerie fire, dancing lights, and a light/darkness spell as a priest or wizard of the same level. When the character reaches 4th level, he can add levitate, detect magic, and know alignment. Now I see the Skills and Powers/Spells and Magic books to be great! They really add alot of dimension to the classes. The thing I would warn people of is letting the PC's go hog wild. You really have to check each character over so that they don't take abilities that are too powerful or don't make sense. I use these books to give my PC's a more mystara feel. An example: In my campaign there is a cleric of Ixion who took the Wizardly Priest ability for the Evocation Sphere. Seems to make sense to me that a follower of the sun god whips out a fireball every now and then. Of course to counter act this extra Character Points spent on that ability she has a terrible fear of Water (you should see her face every time they walk up to a river :) ) steve *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 09:54:57 -0600 (CST) From: Stephen Dolan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara On Thu, 12 Mar 1998, Glen Sprigg wrote: >At 07:22 AM 3/12/98 EST, you wrote: >Those who sweat at the thought of converting Mystara to AD&D will cringe in horror at the thought of using Skills and Powers; TSR's answer to munchkin prayers. From your own post, try to match those abilities with a all-too-common AD&D race. >Can you say, Drow? >Who wants to turn the Mystaran elves into Caucasian Drow? Raise your hands... >No, I didn't think so. Skills and Powers is just too ridiculous for Mystara. Ick. We had that problem when we started useing Skills and Powers, everyone always took the most expensive abilities and tried to make super-characters. Then one of our DM's (there are 4 of us who run differnent campaigns) said "no drow abilities unless you are drow! All characters will have to be checked by me and you must be able to justify any skill and ability you take" This first of all got rid of the the annoying drow sindrome and made us think about our characters a little bit more, which is always nice. steve *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 10:55:54 -0500 From: Ray Brooks Subject: [MYSTARA] - MAGE in Glantri (was: Mystara's fate...) Anias Pasi wrote: >P.S.S.S. I finally did it. My first gaming group (I have 2) is now playing wwith the MAGE system in Glantri. So far it's been great. I'll just have to finish the staff I've been doing, and I'll send it to You too. That is such a cool idea! I imagine it wouldn't be all that difficult to set up the Secret Crafts at the Great School of Magic like the different Traditions. And hey, depending on when you set it, Alphatia could be an antagonist on the scale of the Technocracy. They wouldn't be technological, but many of the themes of the little guys versus the gigantic "empire/conspiracy" could be carried over quite easily. I'd really like to see your material if its convenient. Be sure to keep us informed on how it develops! Ray *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 11:06:35 EST From: Alex295 Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Weaponry and Injuries In a message dated 98-03-12 11:16:48 EST, you write: << >The English Yew longbow was and is a fine weapon. The panic it caused was ddevastating. I cannot remember the battle's name, but the English longbowmen decimated the pride of the French by slaying their noble knights while they charged. "The end of the world" aspect could be explained by the deaths of the >aristocratic knights. f the Agincourt? >> That may be it. The most easily handy source for the reference is ironically enough a video tape of the Gulf War. Basically, it was demonstrating the evolution and importance of air supperiority. I have the tape around here but am unsure where. IIRC it was put together by Steven Zolaga. IIRC the battle dealt with the English and French fighting it out on the continent. The French had the "on paper" advantage with its multitude of heavily armoured knights. The longbowmen of the English were an unknown factor in the paper assessment. The longbowmen decimated the "pride of French nobility" and evened the playing field. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 09:41:05 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara At 07:19 AM 3/13/98 EST, you wrote: >Well, if you're interested, Marco and I are working on a new bard class, loosely based on the one Bruce proposed in Dragon - except that there are some significant changes, namely the introduction of "spell-songs" - a new twist on magic. That sounds interesting and I'd like to see it when you're finished and I'd suggest sending things like that to DRAGON. BTW, do you have that issue number of Bruce's proposed bard? _____________________________________ This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 09:46:28 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - threads and stuff At 08:30 AM 3/13/98 -0500, you wrote: >for conflict. B10 is a favorite of many on the list and one of mine as well, because of a very well-done plot that can take up many game sessions and keep the players entertained the whole while. X3 has always been up I like B10 also for not only the length but the historical and geographical aspects of it. I honestly don't think I've seen anything like it since from any setting. >B6..they could've done a much better job of fleshing out the city and its politics. A mystery adventure should not have a fairly set series of events either. Big agreement here. I was completely disappointed with this for the same reasons. Not the depth I was hoping for at all. _____________________________________ This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 09:48:32 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara At 04:00 PM 3/13/98 +0100, you wrote: >Limit the psioncists to one or two groups of psinoics, namely those which focus on psionicists own body, like the metaphysical. I think that would fit the idea of a mystic seeking to improve himself, his abilities are not outward affecting others (such as a fireball), but inward affecting himself (such as haste, to use the mage as an example) and through these studies he in certain cases can affect his surroundings (the healing ability and in some degree the combatabilities). I agree with this and think that would be the only way I would use them. _____________________________________ This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 09:52:07 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara At 04:05 PM 3/13/98 +0100, you wrote: >I would suggest using the cantrips printed in Uneathed Arcana (and in Best of Dragon I think, but can't remember the right issue of Dragon, but Dragon #200 have a wonderful article on D&D magic and has some suggestions too on "minor magic"), give the elves X free cantrips a day. Might rule that they are limited in such a way that they cannot be used in combat (either not deal any damage or be of no use at all). >What do you think? I like it. I had thought of something like that but couldn't remember where I had seen it (I've got things nicely accessable but have no idea where a piece of information I maybe looking for lays). I don't think cantrips can cause damage (but of course I could check but I'm not delving into that stuff yet!) just distract so I would allow in combat. _____________________________________ This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #164 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, March 13 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 165 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Re: [MYSTARA] - First Quest novels Re: [MYSTARA] - Combat situations Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Combat situations Re: [MYSTARA] - READ THIS -- Tact and Such Re: [MYSTARA] - Combat situations Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Weaponry and Injuries Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D [MYSTARA] - Re: Re(3): Mystara [MYSTARA] - SaveMystara! Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Bards Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills & Powers (kinda long) [MYSTARA] - Mudslinging Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Smiles ;) Re: [MYSTARA] - Combat situations Re: [MYSTARA] - SaveMystara! Re: [MYSTARA] - Saving Mystara [MYSTARA] - Re: Mudslinging ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 10:11:36 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D At 04:10 PM 3/12/96 +0100, you wrote: >Yes, it's true that rules/tables and such things may slow the game (indeed the >first games were very slow - we ought to leaf through the handbook much of the >time), but I have reason to say that this happens only the first times when the >rules aren't well known by master and players. When you begin DMing an AD&D campaign you should set some parameters (because kits, expansions and similarities are really huge in quantity), then you have to create the characters (which is, too, a long operation). I feel that D&D is a good and easy system, but it lacks a basic consideration that we can find in AD&D: the difference between classes and races. I want to play an elven thief !!!! [I cut the parts out I won't be replying to] I've enjoyed playing AD&D but I don't enjoy DMing it because of all that you mentioned. I do think AD&D has more varity and much of that I've borrowed. Not to beat AD&D because I don't think it a bad system it's just focused different. To use my PBeM as an example... I allow AD&D classes such as paladins however I told my players that they are fighters working toward becoming paladins (at 9th lvl then getting the abilities). They maintain their faith then the chosen Immortal allows them into the order. Now if I used the AD&D rule for paladins, they already have those abilities and so the reason to maintain their faith is to keep them. They're not working for a personal goal like they are with my version of paladins. I also use the same type rule for rangers. AD&D makes the classes less personal by heaping these things onto characters so that they work to maintain abilities instead of working toward. I just like that focus better. I like having elves being able to have classes too but there is something to be said for making the elven way different from human. I think Elves of Alfheim went a long way with me in showing their society isn't a copy of human but completely different with different outlooks and abilities. _____________________________________ This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 11:28:29 EST From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - First Quest novels In a message dated 98-03-13 10:40:38 EST, you write: << Hi I was just reading the Dragonlord series. And I wondered which other novels were set in Mystara. I think I know all the official ones. But I think I read on the list that there were one (some?) of the First Quest novels that were set in Mystara. I'd like to know the names of these. Sune Kloppenborg Jeppesen >> Hmm...I have just about finished the Trilogy myself. I will probably finish it today before I go to bed (I work midnights). As for other novels, other Listers can answer that. The Trilogy are the only ones I have. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 11:50:23 EST From: CRlPTONITE Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Combat situations >>>I don't recall the D&D rules, but AD&D says that the spell won't be lost. If the wizard is distracted or hit in combat he or she may not be able to cast the spell, but it's still memorized and can be cast later. >>>--- -- --Criptonite >>Really???? hmm...okay, i'll check it out in the PH tonight. -Inconu >Crypt, >If he's in the middle of casting and gets hit, the spell is lost as if he did cast it. Wiped completely from memory. I believe that's true in both systems. Another reason to keep mages out of the fray ;) _____________________________________ >This has been a Galwylin© Production It seems like the PH has contradicted itself on this point. Inconu and I emailed each other privatly to see what the other was talking about. Here's 2 excerpts from the PH: Chapter 3 Player Character Classes - Wizard - page 31 "...Spells gather and shape mystical energies; the procedures involved are very demanding, bizarre, and intricate. Before a wizard can actually cast a spell, he must memorize its arcane formula. This locks an energy pattern for that particular spell into his mind. Once he has the spell memorized, it remains in his memory until he uses the exact combination of gestures, words, and materials that triggers the release of this energy pattern. Upon casting, the energy of the spell is spent, wiped clean from the wizard's mind." Chapter 7 Magic - Casting Spells - page 85 "... if the spellcaster is struck by a weapon or fails to make a saving throw before the spell is cast, the caster's concentration is disrupted. The spell is lost in a fizzle of useless energy and is wiped clean from the memory of the caster until it can be rememorized." Does anyone know what D&D books say about this? - --- -- --Criptonite *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 10:50:39 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara At 09:38 AM 3/13/98 -0600, you wrote: >Now I see the Skills and Powers/Spells and Magic books to be great! They really add alot of dimension to the classes. The thing I would warn people of is letting the PC's go hog wild. You really have to check each character over so that they don't take abilities that are too powerful or don't make sense. >I use these books to give my PC's a more mystara feel. An example: In my campaign there is a cleric of Ixion who took the Wizardly Priest ability for the Evocation Sphere. Seems to make sense to me that a follower of the sun god whips out a fireball every now and then. Of course to counter act this extra Character Points spent on that ability she has a terrible fear of Water (you should see her face every time they walk up to a river :) ) Seems you have figured those books out, Steve. I only have the S&P one and I've never been big on reading rules. That's one reason I like D&D so well is that it started me slowly. Sometimes I feel lost having so much information throw at me at once. The first time I read the AD&D rules I did so much page flipping. I'm sure I never would have tried role-playing if that was how I was introduced (I know.. a simple mind but hey, at least I have simple thoughts ;) _____________________________________ This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 10:39:39 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara At 09:42 AM 3/13/98 -0600, you wrote: >Ok, Here is a question that has been bothering me......What happened to Rad after he blew up the Device. Was he slaped on the the wrist? Was he punnished to suffer for eternity? Was he striped of his powers? If I was one of the other immortals i might have been just a little bit upset if one amoung us blew up a large country. Are you suggesting the Immortal Alphatia would have lost her ideas of peace when she saw what Rad did? ;> Poetic justice would have been that the NoS no longer drains magical or entropic energies any long but Immortal essenses and Rad is the current power source ;) _____________________________________ This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 10:42:19 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D I forgot to mention the biggest advantage AD&D has over D&D. It gets published! ;) _____________________________________ This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 12:08:42 EST From: Neal Daskal Subject: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Combat situations >>>>I don't recall the D&D rules, but AD&D says that the spell won't be lost. If the wizard is distracted or hit in combat he=20 or she may not be able to cast the spell, but it's still memorized=20 and can be cast later. >>>>--- -- --Criptonite >Chapter 7 Magic - Casting Spells - page 85 "... if the spellcaster is struck by a weapon or fails to make a saving t= hrow >before the spell is cast, the caster's concentration is disrupted. The s= pell >is lost in a fizzle of useless energy and is wiped clean from the memory = of >the caster until it can be rememorized." >Does anyone know what D&D books say about this? >--- -- --Criptonite This is one of the lost rules of D&D, last documented in the Expert Rulebook in '81. It says the same thing as the AD&D PH. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 12:24:26 EST From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - READ THIS -- Tact and Such Mystarans, I hope that I am not one of those unnamed names. I have always thought that I responded well within the bounds of the List. If a response called for an agressive tone, then I usually tried to add a bit of humor. I am not here to push or flame someone. I also disdain the use of smiley faces in statements. So some statements could be taken as sarcasm and/or being a smart ass. I am a very humorous and light hearted person. I prefer to present my case to explain my stance on a certain topic. I do not attack someone without provocation. However, if pushed, I do push back. Preferably, this is via private mail. As for Jamuga Khan, he does at times display a uppityness in his responses. I do not think he means it to come across that way. He does have his biases. I cannot argue with him on that. For being biased is an opinion, and you cannot debate opinions. As for BMJ10, he pushed and I responded. Now I do not sit in front of the PC with a stack of rulebooks open for quick reference. I work from memory, often placing statements of rationality in my responses. Now BJM got into a tissy with me on something I do know about: weapons. I love weapons. I really love weapons. I have been shooting a bow of some make since i was six years old. I took two years of fencing before damaging my wrist. I am an avid hunter and a self proclaimed gun nut. And I love history, especially military history. That last parley about injuries was not me saying BJM was a wimp. I was merely trying to show that different people react differently to injuries. I was going to respond to that but saw it as unneeded after Leroy intervened. From what I have heard, that move was the first (and hopefully last) boot from the List. It is a shame. I feel bad for Leroy for having to make such a descision. I kind of blame myself for I may have encouraged his attacks. I appologize. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 11:22:16 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Combat situations At 11:50 AM 3/13/98 EST, you wrote: >It seems like the PH has contradicted itself on this point. Inconu and I emailed each other privatly to see what the other was talking about. Here's 2 >excerpts from the PH: >Chapter 3 Player Character Classes - Wizard - page 31 "...Spells gather and shape mystical energies; the procedures involved are very demanding, bizarre, and intricate. Before a wizard can actually cast a spell, he must memorize its arcane formula. This locks an energy pattern for that particular spell into his mind. Once he has the spell memorized, it remains in his memory until he uses the exact combination of gestures, words, and materials that triggers the release of this energy pattern. Upon casting, >the energy of the spell is spent, wiped clean from the wizard's mind." >Chapter 7 Magic - Casting Spells - page 85 "... if the spellcaster is struck by a weapon or fails to make a saving throw before the spell is cast, the caster's concentration is disrupted. The spell is lost in a fizzle of useless energy and is wiped clean from the memory of the caster until it can be rememorized." >Does anyone know what D&D books say about this? >From the Rules Cyclopedia: Chapter 3: Spells and Spellcasting - page 32 "If character is disturbed (i.e. hit in combat, tackled, etc.) while casting a spell, the spell will be ruined, and will still be "erased" from his mind just as if it had been cast." I would take your first reference to be descriptive of the ability and so not the source for it's actual use. However, I have heard of some that do say that the spell is just disrupted and not erased from memory but I think that's just a house rule. _____________________________________ This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 18:27:01 +0000 From: wizzard@mail.intcom.de Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Weaponry and Injuries Sorry folks, >Agincourt? >> Think of Shakespeare´s "Henry V." The Battle of Agincourt. It was St.Crispin´s Day and the Army of the French was overbearing. But with their faith and nothing to loose they made the day theirs. In the battle only 500 Englishmen died but over 10000 French were dead and under these 10000 was the majority of French nobility. Afterwards the French king resigned and for a short period - due to the marriage of Henry and "the French princess" - there was peace between the two countries. The advantage of the fabled English Longbowmen was that the impact (and speed) of their arrows was that strong that every armour could be penetrated and the French knights died like flies. One of my favored battles!! Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 18:14:30 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #165 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: e40ad0ed17e1aa5030d7030258df59a7 Wizzard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 18:26:59 +0000 From: wizzard@mail.intcom.de Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Hi folks, >From: Galwylin >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D >As a user of AD&D (is there a support group? ;) I can see where you're coming from and I think this is a design flaw. Forcing the DM and players to deal with so many numbers and tables does push the role playing aspects back. It can be done but it takes effort. Luckily, I've been able to play alright though I do forget one of my rolls or abilities because they're not natural to the character once I get into him. Adding the + and subtracting this - when you're just trying to hit a orc is enough to confuse me. This is one reason I like kits but don't pay much attention to their plus/minus. II just want to have a good time, not fill out a spreadsheet ;) *applause* OK, now I´m not feeling that alone on the list if I have a "good" attitude with using AD&D. It is not all bad. You just have to pick out the good ideas and adopt it. E.g. the new ideas for using bards. I don´t think of a bard as a druid. He has the same relation to plants /trees as every other normal character. So there is no specific background. For using illusion magic. Hmm, sounds ok to me but I don´t like illusion magic because it favours the "dice"-game. Illusion, if successful is the most powerful magic ever and I don´t like to make the decision to either spoil my NPC-plot or frustrate my PC because once again his magic went wrong. And I think of a bard of being capable of "creating" something for his own. Therefore I loved the idea of a bard as a semi-magicuser. And think of the kits - it´s AD&D. The only negative thing is that TSR tried to make money out of even using the words "RPG, xD&D, ...". So in my opinion sometimes they deserved the joke of spelling it T$R. But summing up I´m very satisfied with "the stuff". Hope so, I´m the DM. Any comments? Wizzard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 14:57:48 -0500 From: Daly Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Re(3): Mystara >At 04:49 PM 3/12/98 -0600, you wrote: >>Sorry for the Wait. Please post this to the MML so all who care about Mystara can email their thoughts to a junk email account for future use. Please post this on all your Mystara webpages! >>Please email you 'save Mystara' message to: mailto:SaveMystara@CmnWrld.com >>You can view them at: (system might be up 100% of the time) http://CmnWrld.com/ForumBin/SaveMystara/ >>If a someone would like to build a web page to support this cause please email it to Rickard@cmnwrld.com. >>Rob Rickard >>Common World inc. >>mailto:Rickard@cmnwrld.com >>http://CWSpot.com/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 15:14:45 -0500 From: Daly Subject: [MYSTARA] - SaveMystara! Wow. I hardly knew what I was getting into! I have compiled 32 names and it is only the 2nd day...! I believe we have a chance. The forces of Mystara are uniting! The hordes are slavering! The Empire of Thyatis is...marching! Ok, I am all better now. I just wanted to update ya'll on the progress. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 17:17:32 EST From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Bards << I think bards in AD&D is one example of where the system has muddled the classes too much. While bards may have already existed on Mystara as an occupation, I don't see how they would rise from singing for money (and occasionally supplimenting that income with theivery) to singing for money and tossing a few spells. However, that spellsong sounds interesting and sounds like a more natural progression. Think of the ability of telling a story for a bard.......now think about having access to spells.....especially cantrip. Imagine a bard telling a story of how the alphatian mages all rose above Glantri.....then as he's describing it.....a cute little map of Glantri appears on the floor with a bunch of blue (miniature sized) figures waving thier staffs around appear floating over it. It would be a great comic relief and would show down most storytellers in the area without access to magic. An act like that could rake in lots of cash to pay for a few weeks of food and a couple plates to add on your armor.... The basic point is that with spells, thier job will improve, and if they have time on the side......."Hey, what the hell, i guess i might as well learn that fireball thing i've been seeing so much of lately." - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 17:38:55 EST From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills & Powers (kinda long) << Now I see the Skills and Powers/Spells and Magic books to be great! They really add alot of dimension to the classes. The thing I would warn people of is letting the PC's go hog wild. You really have to check each character over so that they don't take abilities that are too powerful or don't make sense. >> Spells & Magic was definately one of the best sourcebooks that has come out in a while. I have no quams about that book. The Skills & Powers book just seemed to be too easy for a PC to get carried away with, like you said. The breaking up of ability scores definately did not fit my campaign, but a friend of mine does use it when he DMs. Only one chapter helped me, and that was the third chapter: Racial Requirements. It's suposed to be for the PC's....but i've changed it around in my campaign. Basically you have basic abilities to add to your race. Say you were an elf, treat your character as if it has no special abilities. Now you have 40-45 points to buy certain abilities.....Infravision....+1 with swords.....all that good stuff. I didn't like that because of how it's not believable to me that a bunch of Elves from the same family could have such radically different abilities. So what i did was i just made a custom Elf for the type of Elf you were. On my Mystara, I have lots of the other continents developed. there are Alfheim Elves, Dustachia Elves, Anannian Elves, etc.... Each one has talents that reflect on what type of Elves they are. Anannian Elves are a kind and helpfull race, and have been for generations.....so their abilities reflect that..... A certain Elven society is based on martial arts and stealth, and like the Annanians, their abilities reflect it. They can find secret doors and have (+1) to hit with daggers, but do not hold the +1 bonus with the long bow. The Anannian Elves never lived with structures around them...they've always been in the forest, so they don't have reason to know of secret sliding walls, thus they can't detect them. However, they may speak with plants. See what i'm gettin at???? I've done the same with Dwarfs and such as well. I really doubt that fits into many...or anyone's campaign, but it just so happens to fit into mine. That was the only thing that really helped me from that book though. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 17:42:12 EST From: Inconu Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mudslinging Well, what do ya know.....one full day without much mudslinging....... - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 17:45:33 EST From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D << They're not working for a personal goal like they are with my version of paladins. I also use the same type rule for rangers. AD&D makes the classes less personal by heaping these things onto characters so that they work to maintain abilities instead of working toward. I just like that focus better. That's a really good point. I might consider holding off to a certain level before allowing the Paladin to reach Paladinhood. Thanks Galwilyn. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 17:22:51 EST From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D << I actually have a dream about sitting down one day with all the rulebooks and come up with the perfect hybrid of the two gamesystems (AD&D race & class system, AD&D spells, AD&D initiative system and a few other changes, but otherwise the D&D system). -Lille My >> That's exactly what i had to do, and still am doing. My Mystara is just all AD&D, OD&D, and original ideas from myself and others i've campaigned with. Even after you do that however, new ideas come up and you just have to keep matureing your system. It just gets the game more fitted into your way of playing then just the way TSR proposed it to be played. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 17:53:55 EST From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Smiles ;) << I also disdain the use of smiley faces in statements.>> I hope this was a joke...cause i couldn't stop laughing when i read this.... ;Þ <> Okay, if not using smiles is your way of writing that's fine. But as a committed smiley maker and sticking tounge maker (double-sinner) ... i'll tell you that it's just something that pops out at the end of a sentence. I'm sure some people don't like capital letters, but would you stop using them if someone stated that? - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 17:55:50 EST From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Combat situations << I would take your first reference to be descriptive of the ability and so not the source for it's actual use. However, I have heard of some that do say that the spell is just disrupted and not erased from memory but I think that's just a house rule. >> I agree. I actually use that house rule myself, but just thought that as a general rule....the spell is lost.... It just seems weird to me that the PH would contradict itself like that. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 17:51:53 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - SaveMystara! At 03:14 PM 3/13/98 -0500, you wrote: >Wow. I hardly knew what I was getting into! I have compiled 32 names and it is only the 2nd day...! >I believe we have a chance. The forces of Mystara are uniting! The hordes are slavering! The Empire of Thyatis is...marching! Hey, I'm not Thyatian, I'm Karamekian! Get it right, you imperialist swine! We signed neutrality pacts, remember? We're independent from you! We don't march to your tune any more, even if you are ten times bigger and meaner than us. We're nice people, and you can't hurt us. We've got friends now; we've got the Hin on our side. So watch it. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 15:06:00 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Saving Mystara At 17.24 12/03/98 -0800, you wrote: >free. If everyone wants more published material, how about this: why don't we consider forming a cooperative and purchasing the rights to Mystara from TSR (how much can a dead world cost?), then publishing our own stuff? For once I agree with you :-) Anyway I fear purchasing the rights to Mystara and publishing our own stuff would be a logistic nightmare. Many members of this live do not live in the USA, e-mail useful to exchange ideas and even files, but exchanging money is a completely different thing IMO. >material as canon. Alternatively, how about requesting that Wizards of the Coast publish more material, but that they hire us (or some of us from this list) to do the writing? After all, list members are better qualified than almost anyone else to produce quality Mystara material (especially considering that Bruce is still with us). So what is to be gained by having non-Mystarans write material and then us having to pay high store prices to get it? I have no interest in being exploited by TSR, which is after all a business, not a public service. I have no problems about submitting my Mystaran stuff to TSR/WotC, if they were willing to publish it. I would even do that for free... at least at first :-) >All that would be required would be a little bit of thought and organization on our part, and the willingness to pool resources that might otherwise go towards TSR profits (since we are all pretty much consumers, we might as well be investors). Everything I have suggested would be perfectly legal, workable, and infinitely preferable to how things are usually done in the gaming world (decreasing quality and increasing cost). The only trick is getting WotC to go along with it ... but we can at least see what they have to say, right? Right. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: 13 Mar 1998 17:13:16 -0600 From: Alan Shutko Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mudslinging >>>>>"I" == Inconu writes: I> Well, what do ya know.....one full day without much I> mudslinging....... You're right. I've been meaning to work up some rules on slinging... what else is a giant to do when someone /rock to mud/s his boulder? - -- Alan Shutko - By consent of the corrupted The moon is a planet just like the Earth, only it is even deader. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #165 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, March 13 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 166 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - First Quest novels Re: [MYSTARA] - Smiles ;) Re: [MYSTARA] - SaveMystara! [MYSTARA] - D&D and AD&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills & Powers (kinda long) [MYSTARA] - Champions of Mystara Boxed set. [MYSTARA] - Mystarans Unite [MYSTARA] - Agincourt and Historical Scenarios Re: [MYSTARA] - Other cultures Re: [MYSTARA] - threads and stuff Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - SaveMystara! Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Other cultures ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 00:18:14 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - First Quest novels At 16.22 13/03/98 +0100, you wrote: >Hi >I was just reading the Dragonlord series. And I wondered which other novels were set in Mystara. I think I know all the official ones. But I think I read on the list that there were one (some?) of the First Quest novels that were set in Mystara. I'd like to know the names of these. Son of Dawn Rogues to Riches (not sure about the correct name) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 18:40:30 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Smiles ;) At 05:53 PM 3/13/98 EST, you wrote: ><< I also disdain the use of smiley faces in statements.>> >I hope this was a joke...cause i couldn't stop laughing when i read this.... ;Þ ><could be taken as sarcasm and/or being a smart ass. I am a very humorous and light hearted person.>> >Okay, if not using smiles is your way of writing that's fine. But as a committed smiley maker and sticking tounge maker (double-sinner) ... i'll tell >you that it's just something that pops out at the end of a sentence. I'm sure some people don't like capital letters, but would you stop using them if someone stated that? My understanding of the smiley face is that it is an easy way to make a statement that could go either way, obvious. In other words since tone of voice is not conveyed over the net, we have to resort to something else. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 18:42:01 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - SaveMystara! At 05:51 PM 3/13/98 -0500, you wrote: >At 03:14 PM 3/13/98 -0500, you wrote: >>Wow. I hardly knew what I was getting into! I have compiled 32 names and it is only the 2nd day...! >>I believe we have a chance. The forces of Mystara are uniting! The hordes are slavering! The Empire of Thyatis is...marching! >Hey, I'm not Thyatian, I'm Karamekian! Get it right, you imperialist swine! We signed neutrality pacts, remember? We're independent from you! We don't march to your tune any more, even if you are ten times bigger and meaner than us. We're nice people, and you can't hurt us. We've got friends now; we've got the Hin on our side. So watch it. I did not mean to misconvey my message. I went into a rage (hordes was a reference to the Ethengar and perhaps Thar and perhaps Hule) spouting different armies from the Known World. Fortunately I got control of myself. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 22:36:19 +0000 From: Elisabeth and Michael Subject: [MYSTARA] - D&D and AD&D I just thought I'd jump into the whats better AD&D and D&D debate ( I only just joined this list) I have being DMing and playing both systems for a few years now and its safe to say that it all boils down to personal prefenernce and that preference is generally down to the players for me. ( If they aren't having fun whats the point) I find D&D background and reference campaign material excellent. As I was somewhat lazy as a youth it was nice to have a number of high quality modules to DM ( My favourite model is B5, the first I ever bought, B10 is excellent but I enver got to DM it. B1-9 was a brilliant idea too) I also collected each gazetter when they came out and generally they were excellent. The rules were simple and built up nicely to the more complicated masters rules. I still find weapon mastery a brilliant concept and wish AD&D went further with this idea (they have to some degree in the Darksun setting) Finally I find D&D a excellent introduction to Role Playing as it is relatively straight forward and has enough campaign material to give a 'real world feel' AD&D however gives huge scope for variety for characters and their abilities. Many of my players found D&D too restrictive in that sense. Although AD&D can bog down in looking up manuals good DM's and knowledgable players can over come that quickly. Players also get to make a character more specialised and different to the rest of the bunch. Two fighters can be so widely different in abilities and skills they do contrast nicely and add a bit of spice. Instead of 2 D&D figthers who just have different stats and Hit Points. However, I have found some of the material in AD&D ( The Darksun material) a little sloppy in their presentation and completness.(This did happen with the last batch of D&D material as well, Elven Fighters stated as NPCs etc made my blood run cold) However, Darksun is still an excellent campaign, pitty about the butching of pscionics So in conclusion I find D&D is great for those interested in simplicity and depth and AD&D great for those who love stats, rules and spicy characters ( with large amounts of money to buy the material) Hope I haven't bored you all. P.S. I convert AD &D Mystara back to D&D *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 18:27:58 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills & Powers (kinda long) At 05:38 PM 3/13/98 EST, you wrote: >See what i'm gettin at???? Ah, I understand! I'm going have to look over that again. _____________________________________ This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 16:30:01 -0600 From: "Michael McKnab" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Champions of Mystara Boxed set. Does anybody need a Champions of Mystara Boxed set. I haven't actually looked inside it, but the box is in really really good condition. If interested email me privately. Yours for deeper & better dungeons, Thanks in advance, Michael Mcknab mikkey@carrollsweb.com P.S. If you or anyone you know has information on RPGA Network Slipcases please put me in contact with them or them with me!! Also looking for a 10th Annniversary AD&D collectors set that came in it's own stylized slipcase. Thanks. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 20:29:57 EST From: Ambreville Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mystarans Unite More stuff... <> That would be nice. Right now, these boards aren't very popular, and basically a far cry from what they used to be on AOL. I see this lack of "competition" as a good opportunity to display a major presence on the Mystara message board. Posting volume is one of the things that earned Greyhawk some notice (no flame wars please). Writing mag articles... Sure. Asking for them repeatedly works too (avoid spamming though) as well as showing your appreciation when something does get published. If the editor of the magazine gets the idea people want to read about Mystara, they would be even more likely to purchase new articles. Support your local Mystaran writers indeed -- and I'm not saying this just for me! :) <> Ouch. I think you're kidding yourself. I don't want to say WotC would NEVER sell Mystara, but knowing how TSR and WotC work, I would not hold my breath. Besides, the idea of a cooperative trying to run the campaign world (or even trying to get the cash out of people) makes me uneasy. You need someone in charge who knows the business and has the time to run things. The ramifications of this and who controls the ownership quickly gets impractical I think. Sorry -- it's just my opinion. <> Again, not impossible, but unlikely to happen. I doubt very much that "TSR" is interested in "exploiting" anyone out there, especially when staff can be paid a salary to do it in-house (the old-Chinese approach to dealing with unemployed peasants!) You'd be surprised. There is a much greater risk instead of ending up with unqualified writers at TSR trying to redesign Mystara to suit their personal preferences, regardless of established materials -- trust me I ran into this more than I care to remember. This can be a real problem. Offer your assistance in the form of RPGA-sponsored task forces which may go over more easily with WotC. <> You hit that one right on the head... <> I agree with the above. Also, think about this other issue: convincing the higher ups at TSR/WotC of publishing Mystara is less than half the battle. Provided you accomplished just that, they in turn would try to convince their distributors of the same. If the distributors feel Mystara isn't a reliable investment (which they do presently), they will not support it early on. As a result, TSR/WotC would cancel the project before design work even started. If TSR/WotC decided to take a chance anyway, odds are distributors would buy small quantities early on to minimize their risk which is the kiss of death in the industry. What I'm saying is that you shouldn't blame TSR/WotC too much on what appears to be a refusal to relaunch Mystara. The decision isn't entirely theirs. So -- to go back to my previous post, you need first to help re- establish a credible fan base and convince WotC, their distributors, retailers, game associations, as well as other gamers (etc), that there is a genuine value in Mystara. Failing to accomplish this may either result in the project being shelved, or worse, failing once again on the market after yet another relaunch. One more thing -- don't forget that Mystara will also be perceived by TSR's management, distributors, and retailers as a direct competitor to Forgotten Realms and Greyhawk (for the right or wrong reasons). I know this for a fact, having fought tooth and nail for years when I was in house. This makes Mystara's chances even slimmer. These people need to be educated as to fundamental differences between one and the other -- and why Mystara is a different, if not better product. So -- be patient, be prepared, and if anything don't lose hope. I still think a Mystara relaunch ought to be positioned as a 3rd Edition AD&D release, and that RPGA should be pulled into this as quickly as possible. Think also of offering independent game events at conventions. Run Known World adventures, Hollow World, Red Steel; think about table-top wargames with miniatures depicting some historical WotI battle, adapt the rules form SpellJammer for some pre-Wrath airship battles either in the skies over Thyatis or in space. How about this -- a theatrical rendition like the ones performed during GenCon ("A day in Pandius" with the actors playing out the roles of Immortals???) -- whatever strikes your fancy, as long as it gets the attention. Offer to run Mystara-based games in game clubs, or as demos in hobby shops... Try to agree on a date and time to show up on live chat boards and stage Mystara-related discussions... etc. Bruce Heard Oh yes, and please do add my name to the list! :) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 21:19:46 -0500 From: brunciak@erols.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Agincourt and Historical Scenarios wizzard@mail.intcom.de wrote: >Think of Shakespeare´s "Henry V." If anyone can, try to see the movie by Kenneth Branagh. The depiction of the battle is quite good (and so is the rest of it). >The Battle of Agincourt. It was St.Crispin´s Day and the Army of the French was overbearing. >But with their faith and nothing to loose they made the day theirs. In the battle only 500 Englishmen died but over 10000 French were dead and under these 10000 was the majority of French nobility. Afterwards the French king resigned and for a short period - due to the marriage of Henry and "the French princess" - there was peace between the two countries. >The advantage of the fabled English Longbowmen was that the impact (and speed) of their arrows was that strong that every armour could be penetrated and the French knights died like flies. Here's how the battle sort of was: FORESTFORESTFORESTFrench French FrenchFORESTFORESTFORESTFORESTFORSET FORESTFORESTFORESTFOREST French FORESTFORESTFORESTFORESTFORESTFOREST FORESTFORESTFORESTFOREST French FORESTFORESTFORESTFORESTFORESTFOREST FORESTFORESTFORESTFOREST French FORESTFORESTFORESTFORESTFORESTFOREST French French French Stakes-Stakes-Stakes-Stakes-Stakes Bowmen-Infantry-Bowmen-Infantry-Bowmen The bowmen decimated the lines of knights while the infantry charged followed by the bowmen after they used their arrows to mop up.(ingenious). As you can see, the French were bottle-necked and wore heavy armour with crossbows. The English won it because of manueverablility and the LONGBOW (imagine yourself in plate armour being hit by 10 or so arrows at high speed). The French just couldn't reach get them. >One of my favored battles!! I loved the way the English fought this one. Alright, now I must ask this: People have been talking about adapting outside stories and modules to Mystara but I've never heard mention of historical situations such as Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 22:30:28 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #166 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 8c9ec2efe3463305760de54be9dc0418 battles. I'm going to start taking some historical events and adapting them to Mystara (like a Mystaran Agincourt; elves could be the English because of the small, maneuverable, and bow-abled numbers while the French could be replaced by-maybe-I don't know?) What do YOU think?? Bob Btw-Yes, I do believe that historical stuff like this is important. How else would Tolkien, Gygax, Arneson, or many people ever get their material. History is a great resource for fantasy. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 18:18:57 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Other cultures On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, Geoff Gander wrote: >Hello All! >Has anyone detailled Mystaran cultures relating to the following RW cultures? >Georgians >Armenians I've never seen these but a good place for them would be the Black Mountains southern area, between Hule and Slagovich. They could be in isolated valleys. >Hungarians perhaps there could be some Hattian-ized Ethengar types who would resemble the Magyars under the Habsburg Empire? Perhaps this is the Krondaharians? >Persians well, I have proposed before the idea that there was some M-Persian influence in Cynidicea, especially the names of its three gods. However I have since discovered that the birthplace of Lucius Apuleius, author of the famous Greco-Roman novella "The Golden Ass", was Madaura, in north africa. This name sounds a lot like Madarua of Cynidicea, but its linguistic origins are probably not Persian (probably Egyptian, Greek, or Berber). I also once upon a time (before the Princess Ark series) had developed a small amount of information on a Persia-based nation called Denduar, on the cape south of Jaibul - the Shah of Denduar was overthrown by Hosadus and took up guerrilla warfare with a band of followers (I used the XD&D stats for Dervishes). i also had some background on the Shah, whose name was Jimahn, but not much else. I would be interested to hear what anyone else might have thought about related things. >Cambodians (hmm, on second thought this was done on Myoshima...) was it? there were a bunch of SE asian nations on Patera but its hard to keep track of which was which. >Ethiopians If we could find a good spot for Tanagoro-descended humans influenced by Nithian and Doulakki culture we could come up with something on this. Perhaps even a nation on the Konumtali, north of Yavdlom? >Berbers My Khouleshah on the IoD are very similar to Berbers in certain ways. They are also similar to the Druze of Lebanon, so I am guilty of serious unspecificity. >Basques I don't know of any Basques, but we could certainly put some in on the SC. Alternatively, one weird thing would be to interpret the Erewan elves as Basques (vs. the Spaniards of Belcadiz). The interesting thing about the Basque language is that it's unrelated to just about anything else ... it would be interesting to have weird isolated mountain languages like this on Mystara as puzzles for linguistic sages. >Moors (maybe these were done in the SC, but I don't think there's a nation of them) no, but some of the nations of the savage baronies are more moorish, while others are less so. it's very inexact and IMO not well explained, but there's potential there if you want to play with it. anyway, in the rw moor was used historically to refer either to muslims of whatever nation or to those of darker skin (esp. africans); so not a very specific term. >Laotians if there were any, they'd be on skothar or patera, that much is pretty definite. >Balts (I'm working on a Mystaran culture based on RW Latvia/Lithuania, actually - timeline's done and info coming to the list soon) ah! where are you putting them? i've always thought that perhaps the native people of the heldann freeholds were actually more baltic than teutonic; this way there is more of a contrast with the Hattians, and more of a RW parallel with the conquest of the Baltic States by the Teutonic Knights in the late middle ages. if the heldanners are balts, they are the long-lost cousins of the traladarans of karameikos. >Khoikhoi (called the Hottentots by Europeans in South Africa) >Xhosa (another South African people, not like the Zulus, who I believe are the models for the Tanagoro) i just don't know of good spots for south african types on the outer world .... although i guess there are ideas about inland west africa and perhaps central africa being placed in davania west of the adakkian gulf. >Inuit this has already been done; the inuugakaalikurit dwarves of further norwold/borea. >Thai >Vietnamese like the Laotians, these are restricted by the apparent anti-asian bias of mystara; they would have to go on patera or in remote parts of skothar. >Nepalese i wonder if this is related to the Mystics of Lhamsa in glantri? (or perhaps these are actually tibetans - probably tibetans) >Burmese there was a write up on Kompor-Thap, land of a thousand pagodas .... this is essentially M-Myanmar (M-Burma for those with old maps) >err...that's all I can think of offhand. Just wondering if anyone's done anything for these, or other, RW cultures (I realize the last ones were probably done my the MOrient people, but I thought I'd ask). those are all the ones i can think of. actually a very thorough list; the thing that's missing is of course south american indians, who have been more or less ignored so far except for the thin analogy of the nonexistent Viper Clan of Atruaghin. Also there is of course a lot more variety amongst africans, native (north americans), and central asians/ middle easterners than is recognized on mystara, and several asian countries omitted. but mystara is what we have to work with .... let's start thinking about what is in all that open space that has not been mapped, especially northern and western brun (Algonquin Indians?), Davania (Africans and South Americans), and eastern Skothar (Asians) more later, m@2 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 21:46:37 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - threads and stuff Flindor wrote: >-What's your favorite printed modules and why? Of the ones I have, I'd have to say that X11 (Saga of the Shadowlord) ranks pretty high up there, because of its high fantasy aspect (very powerful magics), and it presents info on another elvish nation. Plus, the history of Essuria is very interesting. All in all, a well-written piece. Honourable mentions also go to: CM7 (The Tree of Life), X1 (The Isle of Dread), B2 (The Keep on the Borderlands), X4 & X5 (The Master of the Desert Nomads and The Temple of Death), and B4 (The Lost City) - all of these have, IMO, that classic mix of high adventure and good plots, some better than others. >-What ones do you hate and why? I wasn't too keen on X12 (Skarda's Mirror) - I don't know, it just didn't appeal to me very much. >-Has anyone ever writen adventures for the other islands of the thanegioth archapelago? No, but Matt Levy is running a campaign in the area. You should contact him for more info - his centres on one of the easternmost islands, IIRC, and uses campaign info that has been generated by the list. >-Does anyone know any homemade classic d&d modules on the net? where? there's a bunch of AD&D stuff but I can't find any on the classic stuff. I think Alan Derek Jones' adventures (is it you, Alan, who has them on the Dungeon Master Utilities page?) are designed for classic D&D. I am also planning on writing an adventure or two to put up on my page. Have you considered writing one? I would be willing to play-test it. I feel the same way. D&D (I use the Rules Cyclopedia, Dragon Magazine, and the Gazetteers) is much more free-form, without the burdens of excessive rules and all that comes with it. True, there are far more classes and kits in AD&D, but ND&D (New D&D as I call it - basically the system I use) has almost the same amount of versatility, plus the freedom of OD&D. You still have skills, weapon mastery (much more comprehensive than weapon proficiencies, IMO, and more variety when you add up all the skills in the GAZ series and the crucibles, as Pasi Anias has done - see Shawn's page), and many, many races and classes to choose from. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 21:52:58 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Inconnu wrote: >Sounds good. Are you going to post it when it's completed? I would be interested. If not, could you just send it to me by private email? I was thinking of posting it to email, but there are a couple of tables in the new rules that I came up with, so private emails with attachments might be better. I could reformat the tables for posting, though, if no one minds. I think you'll like what Marco and I came up with. We've got four levels worth of spells, with four spell-songs per level to start with (DMs are encouraged to create their own), updated Hit Dice, armour, and weapons rules, modifications to thief skills, and rules for land-owning and travelling bards. We've also got rules for demihuman bards, too, since D&D of the GAZ era was doing this, anyway (witness Dwarven clerics, Elven fighters and shamans, plus Dragon rules for Elven paladins and clerics, and Rakasta, Phanatons, Chameleon Men, Lizard Men/Gator Men, Caymen, and Lupins). Basically, we've distanced the bard from the thief roots somewhat, and added other skills and abilities to make this a truly viable class in its own right. I'm almost done, and the final product should be ready before the end of the month. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 21:56:45 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Galwylin wrote: >That sounds interesting and I'd like to see it when you're finished and I'd suggest sending things like that to DRAGON. BTW, do you have that issue number of Bruce's proposed bard? IIRC the issue number was #177. Bruce's work was the base for what we did, for which we have credited him appropriately (thanks, Bruce, this was a great ideas you had - makes Mystara come alive all the more! :-) I'd have to discuss it with Marco, since he had a role in the production, too. I personally would have no problems with sending it in. If I did, I'd have to be a stickler and say it is specifically for the D&D world of Mystara - just to make a point that some people still generate material for the game. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 22:03:54 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - SaveMystara! Jeff Daly wrote: >Wow. I hardly knew what I was getting into! I have compiled 32 names and it is only the 2nd day...! >I believe we have a chance. The forces of Mystara are uniting! The hordes are slavering! The Empire of Thyatis is...marching! >Ok, I am all better now. I just wanted to update ya'll on the progress. Yes! The mighty hordes of Mystara shall thunder across the plains of publication - be they AD&D or D&D, their cause unites them above their own personal convictions. The goal of restoring their fair realm to the world of light and sound is paramount, the ideal from which they draw their sustenance. 'Lo, forces of self interest! Gaze upon the mighty host of Mystara, and be dismayed! For none shall stand against their will! Whoops, sorry jeff, you kinda inspired me...:) Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 22:08:17 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Galwylin wrote: ><< They're not >working for a personal goal like they are with my version of paladins. I also use the same type rule for rangers. AD&D makes the classes less personal by heaping these things onto characters so that they work to maintain abilities instead of working toward. I just like that focus better. And so spake Inconnu on high: >That's a really good point. I might consider holding off to a certain level before allowing the Paladin to reach Paladinhood. Thanks Galwilyn. That's why I like the D&D system - fighters who want to become paladins have to earn their powers through 9 levels of dutiful adventuring, and IMC at least three levels worth of previous adventuring has to be in the service of an Immortal (it's not that hard, but it makes the player think about who he/she wishes to serve - basically they should decide by 6th level whether they want to try for paladinhood). I think this makes the attainment of their abilities all the more rewarding. Mind you, AD&D has its benefits, too, such as awesome spell selection (I wish D&D had a find familiar spell, among other things). Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 22:30:02 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Other cultures Matt Said: >>Georgians >>Armenians >I've never seen these but a good place for them would be the Black Mountains southern area, between Hule and Slagovich. They could be in isolated valleys. Hmm, either that or in the Tangor Mountains, maybe. Just because the RW Georgians and Armenians lived next door the Turkey and Russia, doesn't mean we have to follow the same principle. Still, this is a good idea, Matt. Perhaps they are north of Nova Svoga? >>Hungarians > >perhaps there could be some Hattian-ized Ethengar types who would resemble the Magyars under the Habsburg Empire? Perhaps this is the Krondaharians? Well, the RW Hungarians are Finno-Ugric people - related to the Finns and Estonians, but exposed to the Turks as well. Perhaps they are a branch of Mystaros' Saamari peoples who migrated far to the southwest, mixed with the Huleans a bit, and the settled further west - north of Yalu Bay/Orc's Head Peninsula? >>Persians > Nuff said here! Still, I'm interested in what you came up with concerning the Shah and M-Persia - maybe you can share it with me? >>Cambodians (hmm, on second thought this was done on Myoshima...) >was it? there were a bunch of SE asian nations on Patera but its hard to keep track of which was which. true, but I think Cambodia was one of them. >>Ethiopians >If we could find a good spot for Tanagoro-descended humans influenced by Nithian and Doulakki culture we could come up with something on this. Perhaps even a nation on the Konumtali, north of Yavdlom? Oh! How about northern Davania?!?! Shawn, if you're listening, what do you think? >>Berbers >My Khouleshah on the IoD are very similar to Berbers in certain ways. They are also similar to the Druze of Lebanon, so I am guilty of serious unspecificity. Don't know much about the Druze Muslims. Who are they? More to come.. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #166 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Saturday, March 14 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 167 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - a few thoughts Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D [MYSTARA] - responses Re: [MYSTARA] - Saving Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Other cultures Re: [MYSTARA] - Other cultures [MYSTARA] - Orcus [MYSTARA] - Vanya and the Hattians [MYSTARA] - Find Familiar Re: [MYSTARA] - Find Familiar Re: [MYSTARA] - Find Familiar [MYSTARA] - Missing posts Re: [MYSTARA] - Find Familiar Re: [MYSTARA] - Find Familiar Re: [MYSTARA] - Smiles ;) Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Other cultures Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 22:30:40 EST From: Flindor Subject: [MYSTARA] - a few thoughts I left a pretty long message last time (probably too much to deal with at once) so I'll keep it brief this time. - -Does anyone have any ideas about the islands of the thanegioth archapelago outside the isle of dread (X1)? - -As far as the elven thief goes it should be easy to adapt to d&d (look on the source page of this list, someone already dealt with this though I have yet to really read it). - -some stuff I use from Ad&d: Saving rolls for items (armor etc.) like acid and monsters (really easy to do). - -favorite modules (my campaign is new so some of these are from memories from a long, long time ago): b2(keep on borderlands) - I used this as my second adventure in my current campaign on players who routinely play alot (cyber punk, paranoia etc.) and they had a blast! I made the humanoids crafty (but not very intellegent) and used the Orcs of Thar as background for races, shamans etc. My goal was to have a campaign that was reminiscient of the games we had years ago. At the outset I was afraid that there wouldn't be enough action (or would be out of place) but everyone had a good time. A viewer (who only plays cyberpunk) was astounded that people actually could miss targets and the players actually had to think and scheme to get out of sticky situations. - -I'll post some more favorite modules next time, this got a little long again. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 23:06:46 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D At 10:08 PM 3/13/98 -0500, you wrote: >Mind you, AD&D has its benefits, too, such as awesome spell selection (I wish D&D had a find familiar spell, among other things). If that's all you wish for I'll post a D&D version later unless someone else already has it ready. Spells aren't that hard to convert between systems. In the middle of a break from chat at the moment ;) _____________________________________ This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 01:36:48 EST From: Flindor Subject: [MYSTARA] - responses - -ray brooks- I emailed tsr about how bad the map-maker utility on the corerules cdrom and they said that this summer ver. 2 will come out with a ton of improvements to make maps on the computer. Check out their website. - -geoff gander- My campaign is on hiatus until this semester is over and I can write and dm all summer. I am going to run x1:isle of dread (after I get the PC's out of Thyatis? and then later Glantri X2) and am going to write a series of adventures involving the rest of the island chain. I see one of the islands being a pirate base or community and another being torn apart by warfare between kara-kara (and maybe some gatorman allies) and natives (and maybe lizard man allies). I figure the pc's in my campaign should be 5-7th level and I want to introduce a little war machine on them. I also can't wait to send jurrasic park style raptor after them! Taking a cue from babylon 5 I have set out the entire campaign (perhaps around 15 complete/expanded modules) and this is the only real "hole" to be filled. I am going to write the right the finale (i don't want to run a campaign with 20+ lvl characters though by then I might change my mind) that should be a trilogy. The next time I submit I'll set down a few ideas that I have. In general: I have been involved with other unsupported items (star frontiers and the amiga computer) before and I think that a good idea would be for everyone interested to submit stuff (even if not that often) such as mini- modules, scenarios or tricks of the trade. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 03:56:57 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Saving Mystara In a message dated 98-03-13 00:50:22 EST, scy2g@watt.seas.virginia.edu writes: >By the same token, I don't see WotC sell the right of Mystara to aany other company. Nor do I really want SJG get the right to Mystara (as someone proposed), as I don't think SJG produce more than 2 supplements for any of their game world, nor do I think they are interested in having one flagship game world for GURPS. Okay, then what we would need to do is ensure that it is a non-exclusive deal -- Steve Jackson Games (for example) would be allowed to purblish one or two "GURPS Mystara" supplements, but TSR/WotC would retain all rights to the world. I think Steve Jackson and White Wolf worked out a similar deal for "Vampire the Masquerade". *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 03:57:22 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara In a message dated 98-03-13 10:17:01 EST, greis@dorit.ihi.ku.dk writes: >I would suggest using the cantrips printed in Uneathed Arcana (and in Best oof Dragon I think, but can't remember the right issue of Dragon, but Dragon #200 have a wonderful article on D&D magic and has some suggestions too on "minor magic"), give the elves X free cantrips a day. Might rule that they are limited in such a way that they cannot be used in combat (either not deal any damage or be of no use at all). Well -- AD&D (2d edition) has the Cantrip spell, whose inherent limitations include the fact that the cantrip effets cannot cause damage or (in most cases) distract a spell caster's concentration. Allowing non-Mage Elves access to the Cantrip spell certainly has some possibilities. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 03:57:24 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D In a message dated 98-03-14 00:22:33 EST, galwylin@airnet.net writes: >If that's all you wish for I'll post a D&D version later unless someone eelse already has it ready. Spells aren't that hard to convert between systems. In the middle of a break from chat at the moment ;) Generally, converting from AD&D to D&D is easier than vice versa -- it is much easier to delete extraneous information than to add missing information. Items that D&D spells do not use include school, casting time, material components, and aging effects. In general, for a Mystara campaign you should ignore school (thereby eliminating the possibility of specialist wizards) and aging effects (thereby boosting the power of such spells as "Wish" -- in fact, on Mystara it is actually possible to use the "Wish" spell to magically extend one's life span). On the other hand, spells that have expensive material components or casting times greater than one round should be reviewed carefully -- with the removal of these elements the spells might be a bit overpowered for their level. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 03:57:25 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Other cultures By the way -- the Savage Coast does have a culture based on Moorish Spain -- Saragon, in the Savage Baronies. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 03:57:28 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Other cultures In a message dated 98-03-13 21:52:41 EST, mlevy@orion.oac.uci.edu writes: >this has already been done; the inuugakaalikurit dwarves of further nnorwold/borea. Okay -- who did this, and where is the material located? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 11:14:27 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Orcus I was reading thru WotI last night and i suddenly thought about a strange fact concerning Orcus: he is said to have been sponsored by Thanatos a long time ago and that he was in mortal life a one of the first devil swines of Mystara. However, since devil swines first appeared in AC 623 (more or less), then Orcus is not that old. However, he's a 25th level immortal now, which means he must have been really active in 300+ years of immortality... mmmhh.. Also, i thought the fear of Orcus in thyatian culture was much older than 400 years.. but this contradicts my idea. What do you say? DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 11:41:22 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Vanya and the Hattians I had a strange thought last night about Vanya and the Storm Soldiers. You see, Vanya is not necessarily a female name. In Russian, Vania is both male and female name (or at least it's a male one, i'm sure -Aleksei?), so why can't it be a-sexual for thyatians too? If you follow this theory then, in thyatis could have arisen Vanya cults which preached to a female immortal (most of them) and others who viewed it as a male immortal (the Storm Soldiers in the beginning). I don't think Vanya opposed them at first, considering that she herself was not a perfect model of feminine character according to thyatian society and that they probably worshipped her in the proper fashion. So, during the decades the two cults coexisted, one of a female Immortal patron of War and Conquest and the other of the male Immortal with the same goals (the two aspects of Vanya), though both responded to the same name and deity: Vanya. However, Thanatos was cunning enough to see the potential mischief in the fact and began spreading voices and thoughts of "male schovinism" in the SS by corrupting their soldiers with his clerics who hid among them, creating a certain mentality of male superiority in them. However, some of the SS who probably were on good terms with the other cult of Vanya began to oppose the new racist ideas, until they were finally convinced (either by Vanya in dream or by their comrades' attitude) that their words would have fallen of deaf ears, so they sailed for Heldann. The moment was right now for Thanatos to step in and take care of the SS directly (he was now giving to some of them -the most racist- their spells instead of Vanya). He slayed Oesterhaus and began teaching the SS the new way of conduct: Vanya was a male, he was simply "the Conqueror", and all the other cults were in error! More blasphemous, they were insulting and diminishing Vanya's glory portraying him as a female deity and were trying to bring chaos in the right order of things, where males dominate over females. Thus, all other Vanya cults were to be opposed and cursed for their heresy, and females must be taught again their place in society. Also, their minds must be purged of the heretic thoughts spread by other cults that preach the equality of sexes, which will only bring chaos and disorder. Vanya has now abandoned the SS, clearly seeing their evil, but she is powerless against them because Thanatos is protecting and giving them their spells! This is how things went IMHO. Reasonable? DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 05:32:27 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: [MYSTARA] - Find Familiar FIND FAMILIAR 2nd Level Range: 1 mile/level Duration: Special Effect: 1 familiar This spell enables the caster to attempt to summon a familiar to act as his aide and companion. A creature acting as a familiar can benefit a wizard conveying its sensory powers to its masters, conversing with him, and serving as a guard/scout/spy as well. A wizard can have only one familiar at a time and has not control over what sort of creature answers the summoning. The wizard receives the heighten senses of his familiar, which grants the wizard a +1 bonus to surprise rolls. Normal familiars have 2-4 hit points plus 1 hit point per caster level, and a AC 8. The wizard has an empathic link with the familiar and can issue it mental commands at a distance of up to one mile. Responses from familiar are generally basic. The castor cannot see through the familiar's eyes. If separated from the caster, the familiar loses 1 hp each day and dies at 0 hp. The familiar gains the wizards saving throws if in physical contact against special attacks. If special attack causes damage the familiar suffers no damage if saving throw is made and half if failed. If familiar dies, the wizard must successfully roll an death ray/poison saving throw or die. This spell can only be attempted once per year. d20 Roll Familiar Sensory Powers - --------------------------------------------------- 1-5 cat, black excellent night vision superior hearing 6-7 crow excellent vision 8-9 hawk very superior distance vision 10-11 owl night vision equals human day vision superior hearing 12-13 toad wide-angle vision 14-15 weasel superior hearing very superior olfactory power 16-20 No familiar available within range I made this spell 2nd level because of the bonuses gained that are almost pernament but I think it could be bumped up to 3rd level. You can insert any small animal on the table and associate a sensory power with it but I would leave the 16-20 remaining no familiar available. Even have the table contain fifteen different animals. _____________________________________ This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 13:24:21 +0000 From: wizzard@mail.intcom.de Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Find Familiar Hi folks, comments on: >FIND FAMILIAR Because of the great benefits a wizard gets through his familiar my group and I made a special arrangement. Normally a wizard can only summon one familiar. It gets his companion and is a true friend. If the familiar EVER dies, the wizard suffers dearly due to his grief over this loss. He gets action modifiers and is kind of stunned or pathetic for a uncertain time. Even further he has to "wait", "atune", ... to get the courage to find a new familiar due to his fear losing this friend again. Any comments? Wizzard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 07:14:04 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Find Familiar At 01:24 PM 3/14/98 +0000, you wrote: >Normally a wizard can only summon one familiar. It gets his companion and is a true friend. If the familiar EVER dies, the wizard suffers dearly due to his grief over this loss. He gets action Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 10:07:25 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #167 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 955ed57475aa33b9ff3f5ad820115d4f >modifiers and is kind of stunned or pathetic for a uncertain time. Even further he has to "wait", "atune", ... to get the courage to find a new familiar due to his fear losing this friend again. I don't see a problem. I was thinking of adding that if the wizard didn't die at the death of his familiar, he loses 1 point of intelligence permanently regardless. _____________________________________ This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 08:58:23 EST From: Ambreville Subject: [MYSTARA] - Missing posts Well that's annoying... I sent two longish posts from work re. Mystara's rebirth in the past couple of days, which haven't shown up on the MML. I'll have to get back to work Monday to retrieve these files, and send them a second time from home, either Monday or Tuesday evening. Sorry. The first deal with the issue of comparing Greyhawk with Mystara, and the other was a response to several posts about Mystara's rebirth... In a nutshell, I was suggesting that RPGA be brought back in the loop first before attempting to sell the Mystara-relaunch idea to WotC corporates. As I repeated in my previous post (the one that did make it this morning to the MML), the point is to bring more numbers among the ranks of Mystara fans, and help build a more credible fan base, which would make Mystara more attractive to TSR/WotC. We could support RPGA in bringing in Mystara fans into their fold, and in turn RPGA can help reaching out to far more people than we could on our own. Having a regular RPGA-sponsored event for Mystara would certainly help get some attention to Mystara, besides the fun of participating on its own. So, my suggestion is to send the petition to RPGA for something like a Living City activity for Mystara. We have a premium source of volunteers to help this effort among all of you here (writers, judges, and participants). If this takes off, THEN send a new petition directly to Peter Adkison the CEO, and Bill Slavcsek, the person in charge of TSR affairs at WotC. Interested? Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 09:05:52 EST From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Find Familiar << I don't see a problem. I was thinking of adding that if the wizard didn't die at the death of his familiar, he loses 1 point of intelligence permanently regardless. If anything...it would probably be a constitution drain, as the loss forces a sys. shock check (Con) and obviously attacks the body. The familiar is more like a piece of the wizard, so that's why when it dies ..... it's possible for the wizard to die...not through the trauma, but through the strain it has on the wizard's system. Intelligence could really only be lost if there was a dear friend lost in ways the wizard couldn't understand. When someone can't cope or understand why something happens....that's when it deals with intelligence.. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 09:10:05 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Find Familiar At 05:32 AM 3/14/98 -0600, you wrote: >FIND FAMILIAR >2nd Level >Range: 1 mile/level >Duration: Special >Effect: 1 familiar >I made this spell 2nd level because of the bonuses gained that are almost pernament but I think it could be bumped up to 3rd level. You can insert any small animal on the table and associate a sensory power with it but I would leave the 16-20 remaining no familiar available. Even have the table contain fifteen different animals. The problem with making this a 2nd-level spell is that while it does have nearly-permanent bonuses, it also has one seriously debilitating effect; if the familiar dies, there's a good chance the mage joins him in oblivion, otherwise he loses Constitution permanently. And familiars are quite fragile; AC 8 and 2-4 hit points? Third-level mages and their friends usually run into gnolls and bugbears; I wouldn't want to bring a familiar near them, they'd squash it like a bug. That's why the original spell is 1st level. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 09:28:44 EST From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Smiles ;) In a message dated 98-03-13 18:08:42 EST, Inconu writes: >I also disdain the use of smiley faces in statements. ----- myself << I hope this was a joke...cause i couldn't stop laughing when i read this.... ;Þ >> Why is that so funny? It is just my own opinion of the smiley faces. Anyway, to each his own. >So some statements >could be taken as sarcasm and/or being a smart ass. I am a very humorous and light hearted person. ---- myself <> I do not use them except in cases where something borderlines on lightheartedness and blatant sarcasm. And most of the time, I do not catch these borderline remarks until they have been sent. As for your own addictions, I can only say that there are places where you can get help. Afterall, the first step in treatment is to admit you have a problem. Now only 11 more steps to go. (see, you can show humor without smiley faces.) Capitalized letters--- hMM.....cAPITALIZED LETTERS ARE A RULE OF THE eNGLISH lANGUAGE. sMILEY FACES ARE NOT. iF ANYTHING THEY ARE CONSIDERRED SLANG. mUCH LIKE THE WORDS, "AIN'T", "HOMEY", AND "COOL". (more humor minus smiley faces) If someone were to say "you know capatatalized letters bug me. I think we should quit using them in this forum". I'd say "fine, do what you wish for that is your right. But think about the efforts of your forefathers fighting to guarrantee that their children can and will be able to use capitalized letters if and when they can". To not use capitalized letters would be un- American. (hence even more humor) To respond in all lower case letters is annoying. Much as doing so in all upper case letters is annoying, and considered to be "shouting". Smiley faces are computerese to demonstrate humor. Either the statement is borderline or needs the smiley face to emphasize the humor. Sort of like laughing at ones own joke. There is alot of leeway in computerese. Terms such as "IMC" and "IMO" are obviously abreviations for "in my campaign" and "in my opinion" are frequently seen here. I use them alot. What does all this mean? Well, I am not really sure. Never expected a minor comment about smiley faces being an issue. IMO do what you want to do. Myself, I will rarely use said smiley faces. It is a matter of choice. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 09:40:19 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara << Other than that, though, I agree that I can't think of any other Mystara-Specific Druids... Oh, except maybe, isn't there a group of Druids on on of the Irendi Islands? >> White Island, IIRC. Druids were indeed left out by TSR's Known World builders, but look at D&D druids: A cleric has to be ninth level to become a druid, and when we perceive the druidical ranks 9-11 as an apprenticeship, the druids of the Outer World can cross continents as fast as a thought. They have spells ("Pass through Plants" and "Recall") to hold contact over incredible distances. Put one real Great Druid on the top (or three for Davania, Brun and Skothar) and we get a secret society almost unnoticed and unnoticable by most people. The goal of the druids should not be world conquest, but preserve of the nature (which might be the same at some point :-) ). The advantage: When a druid get trouble, he can get aid very fast. Of course this concept doesn't work in the Hollow World. Jamuga Khan "Druids? Woods? Who need such silly things?" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 14:24:23 +0000 From: Elisabeth and Michael Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Other cultures At 18:18 13/03/98 -0800, you wrote: >On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, Geoff Gander wrote: >>Hello All! >>Has anyone detailled Mystaran cultures relating to the following RW cultures? >>Georgians >>Armenians >I've never seen these but a good place for them would be the Black Mountains southern area, between Hule and Slagovich. They could be in isolated valleys. >>Hungarians >perhaps there could be some Hattian-ized Ethengar types who would resemble the Magyars under the Habsburg Empire? Perhaps this is the Krondaharians? >>Persians >well, I have proposed before the idea that there was some M-Persian influence in Cynidicea, especially the names of its three gods. However I have since discovered that the birthplace of Lucius Apuleius, author of the famous Greco-Roman novella "The Golden Ass", was Madaura, in north africa. This name sounds a lot like Madarua of Cynidicea, but its linguistic origins are probably not Persian (probably Egyptian, Greek, or Berber). I also once upon a time (before the Princess Ark series) had developed a small amount of information on a Persia-based nation called Denduar, on the cape south of Jaibul - the Shah of Denduar was overthrown by Hosadus and took up guerrilla warfare with a band of followers (I used the XD&D stats for Dervishes). i also had some background on the Shah, whose name was Jimahn, but not much else. I would be interested to hear what anyone else might have thought about related things. >>Cambodians (hmm, on second >thought this was done on Myoshima...) >was it? there were a bunch of SE asian nations on Patera but its hard to keep track of which was which. >>Ethiopians >If we could find a good spot for Tanagoro-descended humans influenced by Nithian and Doulakki culture we could come up with something on this. Perhaps even a nation on the Konumtali, north of Yavdlom? >>Berbers >My Khouleshah on the IoD are very similar to Berbers in certain ways. They are also similar to the Druze of Lebanon, so I am guilty of serious unspecificity. >>Basques >I don't know of any Basques, but we could certainly put some in on the SC. Alternatively, one weird thing would be to interpret the Erewan elves as Basques (vs. the Spaniards of Belcadiz). The interesting thing about the Basque language is that it's unrelated to just about anything else ... it would be interesting to have weird isolated mountain languages like this on Mystara as puzzles for linguistic sages. >>Moors (maybe these were done in the SC, but I don't think there's a nation of them) >no, but some of the nations of the savage baronies are more moorish, while others are less so. it's very inexact and IMO not well explained, but there's potential there if you want to play with it. anyway, in the rw moor was used historically to refer either to muslims of whatever nation or to those of darker skin (esp. africans); so not a very specific term. >>Laotians >if there were any, they'd be on skothar or patera, that much is pretty definite. >>Balts (I'm working on a Mystaran culture based on RW Latvia/Lithuania, actually - timeline's done and info coming to the list soon) >ah! where are you putting them? i've always thought that perhaps the native people of the heldann freeholds were actually more baltic than teutonic; this way there is more of a contrast with the Hattians, and more of a RW parallel with the conquest of the Baltic States by the Teutonic Knights in the late middle ages. if the heldanners are balts, they are the long-lost cousins of the traladarans of karameikos. >>Khoikhoi (called the Hottentots by Europeans in South AAfrica) >>Xhosa (another South African people, not like the Zulus, who I believe are the models for the Tanagoro) >i just don't know of good spots for south african types on the outer world .... although i guess there are ideas about inland west africa and perhaps central africa being placed in davania west of the adakkian gulf. >>Inuit >this has already been done; the inuugakaalikurit dwarves of further norwold/borea. >>Thai >>Vietnamese >like the Laotians, these are restricted by the apparent anti-asian bias of mystara; they would have to go on patera or in remote parts of skothar. >>Nepalese >i wonder if this is related to the Mystics of Lhamsa in glantri? (or perhaps these are actually tibetans - probably tibetans) >>Burmese >there was a write up on Kompor-Thap, land of a thousand pagodas .... this is essentially M-Myanmar (M-Burma for those with old maps) >>err...that's all I can think of offhand. Just wondering if anyone's done anything for these, or other, RW cultures (I realize the last ones were probably done my the MOrient people, but I thought I'd ask). >those are all the ones i can think of. actually a very thorough list; the thing that's missing is of course south american indians, who have been more or less ignored so far except for the thin analogy of the nonexistent Viper Clan of Atruaghin. Also there is of course a lot more variety amongst africans, native (north americans), and central asians/ middle easterners than is recognized on mystara, and several asian countries omitted. but mystara is what we have to work with .... let's start thinking about what is in all that open space that has not been mapped, especially northern and western brun (Algonquin Indians?), Davania (Africans and South Americans), and eastern Skothar (Asians) How about some of the South Pacific races Aboriginals Polenesians Melanesians The Moiries of New Zealand (I apoloigise for my spelling) The Tahiatians >more later, >m@2 >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 13:40:40 +0100 From: Peter Balazs Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Hi! >give the elves X free cantrips a day. That´s a great idea! I will probably include it as a skill (Int -4 or something)! Everytime the elf makes the roll, he can use the natural and magical energies to copy the effects of the cantrip-spell! I think this idea is not too powerfull, the elves now really deserve their role of magical creatures, and it sometimes will come in handy for the PC. And it´s completly different from the orderly manner how huans learn spells and magic. You could even allow elves above the 10th level to acquire a similar skill for two skill points. (Int- 8). With this skill he could even simulate any first-level spell, or let´s say he can cast a 1st Level wish! Something like a weak True Dweomer. Another ability which would fit the elf is: "Speak the Truth" (Wei-8) with it he can sometimes speak the truth. This ability could be used as divination. Sometimes the truth grows in him, and he has to "spit" it out involuntarily. (DM´s call!) [Idea from Sandman!] ************************************************************ Peter "Mr. XXL" Balazs Wurlitzerg. 37/12 1160 Wien 9003307@unet.univie.ac.at http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs ************************************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #167 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 18:50:43 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #168 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 2b428cba71c2907e1944af50dbfae857 mystara-digest Saturday, March 14 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 168 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Rebirth via RPGA Re: [MYSTARA] - Saving Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - READ THIS -- Tact and Such Re: [MYSTARA] - Other cultures Re: [MYSTARA] - Other cultures Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Rebirth via RPGA Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystarans Unite [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth (missing post #1) Re: [MYSTARA] - Orcus Re: [MYSTARA] - responses Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 12:39:25 EST From: Ambreville Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Rebirth via RPGA Here's some feedback re. RPGA The timing for a Mystara Living City isn't great, since apparently there is an attempt in progress to accomplish just that for Greyhawk. The other problem is that the current RPGA coordinator at WotC isn't too keen on the Living City concept. There may be a way around this yet, however. Here's a possible plan. PHASE 1 -- PRIMING THE RPGA PUMP (TODAY-1999): What RPGA needs really bad right now are general events -- RPGA adventures that aren't tied to the Living City. Now, if we could flood them with good quality Mystara adventures, I'm sure RPGA would have no problem using them. The MML provides the knowledge, the manpower, and the motivation which RPGA lacks for Mystara. Adventures should be written with the idea that both established Mystara players and new ones would be involved. These adventures must be the "ambassadors" giving a good look and feel of Mystara to gamers who are unfamiliar with the setting. Don't churn out elitist material that only seasoned Mystara fans would appreciate. PHASE 2 -- RPGA DEVELOPMENT (1999-2000): Once the pump is primed, the folks at RPGA would probably not mind too much setting up more subtantial events, like a Living City for example, since by then there would a reliable and motivated RPGA crowd for Mystara. This should attract even more people to Mystara. If this doesn't work, send your petition to Peter Adkison, explaining what you are trying to accomplish at RPGA -- heck, I'll call him myself if it comes to this. This can only increase the value of the Mystara "property". The end of Phase 2 would be the time when to approach Peter Adkison with the idea of a Mystara relaunch. An idea was suggested to me for a Mystara campaign strategy. There would be an on-going background story and a finite set of player characters. When playing RPGA-sponsored adventures, players would always pick one of the existing characters, a bit like DragonLance. This would support true role- playing and avoid some of the pitfalls of the Living City format. The background campaign story would affect the PCs in different ways which each new adventure. (Just a thought). PHASE 3 -- PROBING THE MARKET: (2000-2001) The next phase of the plan requires a solid and identifiable fan base to be in place and demanding more. This means by then you already have regular and visible activity within RPGA, and some people inside the RPGA management who are comfortable with Mystara. Technically, TSR/WotC would have to make a decision by Spring of 1999 to incorporate into their plans some year 2000 releases. TSR staff is already in the process of generating '99 products as we speak. It might be a good idea to start with a few RPGA-sponsored Mystara releases at first, just to test the waters out there and iron out editorial or production kinks. By then it should be clear that a major relaunch would follow the following year. PHASE 4 -- THE RELAUNCH: (2001-2002) I doubt that AD&D 3rd Edition (if any) would launch before 2001 or 2002. This leaves just enough time to properly position Mystara's actual relaunch AND start executing the first year's worth of releases. Mystara would start with the brand new set of rules, and benefit directly or indirectly from the advertising and promotional effort behind something as crucial as 3rd Edition. The big problem, throughout all phases of this plan, will lie in the overall perception that Mystara will compete with Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms. Efforts must be made to set Mystara apart. In what does Mystara differ from the other products -- especially from the point of view of a sales manager or a distributor? Arguments that make sense to gamers don't always answer the question. Simply saying it's "better" won't cut it. Why should Mystara be distributed if it may end up taking sales away from Greyhawk or Forgotten Realms which are already in place? The key feature these people are looking for is one that would attract those gamers who are not interested in either WG or FR, especially those who aren't current TSR customers, and enough of them to make the endeavor profitable. This is a lot tougher than it sounds, and ultimately, it may be the undoing of Mystara. I hate to finish on such a somber note, but everyone needs to be realistic about these issues and their expectations. Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 12:41:41 -0500 (EST) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Saving Mystara Kaviyd pontificated: >Okay, then what we would need to do is ensure that it is a non-exclusive deal -- Steve Jackson Games (for example) would be allowed to purblish one or two "GURPS Mystara" supplements, but TSR/WotC would retain all rights to the world. I think Steve Jackson and White Wolf worked out a similar deal for "Vampire the Masquerade". That is what I was thinking, but SJG and WW had a major contract and copyright dispute over the entire thing. Steve Jackson got really upset over the whole thing and I doubt he would want to do similar stuff again, especially with WotC, which he is not have good relationship right now (SJG is boycotting Gen-Con). And I don't know who else would do something like this with WotC. Maybe a small start-up company would be interested, but still I don't know whether WotC would want to do something like that. A GURPS Mystara would be interesting though. Knowing the quility of GURPS supplement, it will be an excellent one volume reference. Even though it wouldn't be nearly enough to show the entire world of Mystara. - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 13:29:53 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - READ THIS -- Tact and Such << If you don't think that idly stating your opinion that other people's ideas are "disgusting" (with no argument or evidence or logic to support you) isn't a flame, then maybe you need to think about how you would feel if I did this every single time you proposed anything ... >> Have we to go through another time? I hope not. Please not. You have of course the right to have your own opinion, but I don't wish to discuss it further, neither on the MML nor private. << ... and while I will admit I have been just as guily of flame incitement as others in the past, I have never been this unjustifiably dismissive with you. If you want to offer your opinion, be prepared to defend yourself (especially when it demeans others' work).>> Funny! I've got another impression. This is of course "IMO". << peace, m@2 >> A really true word. I would say, we conclude this matter with that. Jamuga Khan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 12:40:15 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Other cultures >How about some of the South Pacific races Aboriginals >Polenesians >Melanesians >The Moiries of New Zealand (I apoloigise for my spelling) The Tahiatians well, the australian aborigines are reflected in the wallara of the SC. there is one polynesian group, the makai of ierendi, and the kara-kara of X8 are a sort of nasty mockery of melanesians. also, i have a culture which i have expanded from the natives of tanaroa in X1 which i call the tegor ... they are descended from the tangor & oltecs and they have a variety of languages spoken throughout the islands of the sea of dread and related perhaps to some spoken in davania. they are not modelled particularly on any rw language but their culture is vaguely pacific islands-based. m@2 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 12:56:40 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Other cultures On Fri, 13 Mar 1998, Geoff Gander wrote: >Matt Said: >>>Georgians >>>Armenians >>I've never seen these but a good place for them would be the Black Mountains southern area, between Hule and Slagovich. They could be in isolated valleys. >Hmm, either that or in the Tangor Mountains, maybe. Just because the RW Georgians and Armenians lived next door the Turkey and Russia, doesn't mean we have to follow the same principle. Still, this is a good idea, Matt. Perhaps they are north of Nova Svoga? but it keeps more of the RW flavor if we do put them near russians and turks ... yes i like Nova Svoga. Maybe I am getting irrational about this. Part of my problem with the dislocation of cultures on Mystara is that it implies that cultures are self-contained units which can be taken away from their context ... and a lot of what I know about anthropology indicates that this is not the case. Look at it this way ... with everything you know about the history of France and England, could you really get the feel of one without the other? it's partially there but something feels weird. >>>Hungarians > >>perhaps there could be some Hattian-ized Ethengar types who would resemble the Magyars under the Habsburg Empire? Perhaps this is the Krondaharians? >Well, the RW Hungarians are Finno-Ugric people - related to the Finns and Estonians, but exposed to the Turks as well. Perhaps they are a branch of Mystaros' Saamari peoples who migrated far to the southwest, mixed with the Huleans a bit, and the settled further west - north of Yalu Bay/Orc's Head Peninsula? here again, hungary is a european culture with heavy german and slavic influence ... it's hard to picture "M-Hungary" on the borders of the Cayma or the Wallaras. >>>Persians > > >Nuff said here! Still, I'm interested in what you came up with concerning the Shah and M-Persia - maybe you can share it with me? i don't have much but what I've got I will post soon, when I get the chance... hopefully this week. >>If we could find a good spot for Tanagoro-descended humans influenced by Nithian and Doulakki culture we could come up with something on this. Perhaps even a nation on the Konumtali, north of Yavdlom? >Oh! How about northern Davania?!?! Shawn, if you're listening, what do you think? northern davania would work too, especially in places influenced by the milenians and the nithians ... this could be interesting. >>>Berbers >>My Khouleshah on the IoD are very similar to Berbers in certain ways. They are also similar to the Druze of Lebanon, so I am guilty of serious unspecificity. >Don't know much about the Druze Muslims. Who are they? the Druze are an offshoot of Islam, their religion is substantially different in many ways. They live in the mountains of Lebanon and are generally pretty militantly independent, IIRC. One rumor is that they are the religious descendents of the medieval assassins' cult headed by the Old Man of the Mountain. btw, one thing i've been toying with is making Barimoor into such a figure, a leader of a group of secret alasiyan assassins who revere him as a demigod. let me know what you think, m@2 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 15:05:01 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Rebirth via RPGA At 12:39 PM 3/14/98 EST, Bruce wrote: >PHASE 1 -- PRIMING THE RPGA PUMP (TODAY-1999): AAdventures should be written with the idea that both established Mystara players and new ones would be involved. These adventures must be the "ambassadors" giving a good look and feel of Mystara to gamers who are unfamiliar with the setting. Don't churn out elitist material that only seasoned Mystara fans would appreciate. I think this can be done easily. I've just joined the RPGA this past month but haven't learned exactly how it works. By not using elitist material, do you mean just write adventures that are generic but take place in Mystara? >PHASE 2 -- RPGA DEVELOPMENT (1999-2000): OOnce the pump is primed, the folks at RPGA would probably not mind too much >setting up more subtantial events, like a Living City for example, since by then there would a reliable and motivated RPGA crowd for Mystara. This should attract even more people to Mystara. If this doesn't work, send your petition to Peter Adkison, explaining what you are trying to accomplish at RPGA -- heck, I'll call him myself if it comes to this. This can only increase the value of the Mystara "property". The end of Phase 2 would be the time when to approach Peter Adkison with the idea of a Mystara relaunch. As a new member, I haven't learned what exactly the Living City thing is. I thought it was for the Realms. Guess I better read that handbook again. >An idea was suggested to me for a Mystara campaign strategy. There would be >an on-going background story and a finite set of player characters. When playing RPGA-sponsored adventures, players would always pick one of the existing characters, a bit like DragonLance. This would support true role- playing and avoid some of the pitfalls of the Living City format. The background campaign story would affect the PCs in different ways which each new adventure. (Just a thought). Having never played in a RPGA sponsered event, I'm not sure how this works. Looks like I need to hit the cons this summer. >PHASE 4 -- THE RELAUNCH: (2001-2002) >I doubt that AD&D 3rd Edition (if any) would launch before 2001 or 2002. This leaves just enough time to properly position Mystara's actual relaunch AND start executing the first year's worth of releases. Mystara would start with the brand new set of rules, and benefit directly or indirectly from the advertising and promotional effort behind something as crucial as 3rd Edition. I think this is where we're having the most trouble. Mystara hasn't been fitted with AD&D 2nd edition well yet and I wouldn't even know what to think about 3rd edition. Just a feeling of stumbling in the dark for me. >The big problem, throughout all phases of this plan, will lie in the overall perception that Mystara will compete with Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms. Efforts must be made to set Mystara apart. In what does Mystara differ >from the other products -- especially from the point of view of a sales manager or a distributor? Arguments that make sense to gamers don't always answer the question. Simply saying it's "better" won't cut it. Why should Mystara be distributed if it may end up taking sales away from Greyhawk or Forgotten Realms which are already in place? The key feature these people are looking for is one that would attract those gamers who are not interested in either WG or FR, especially those who aren't current TSR customers, and enough >of them to make the endeavor profitable. This is a lot tougher than it sounds, >and ultimately, it may be the undoing of Mystara. I hate to finish on such a somber note, but everyone needs to be realistic about these issues and their expectations. I agree that Mystara competes directly with FR and GH. All three are basically standard fantasy worlds. Mystara seems to be a more mature setting in its timeline. FR and GH large areas of wilderness that Mystara doesn't (that's been detailed). Mystara's nations are more representative of mid 1700's while the other two are in the 1500's. While FR and GH have sophisticated cities, Mystara has sophisticated nations. I'm sure some disagree with me but I think it would be helpful to decide on what era (compared to our own world) Mystara is in so we can look at the driving forces of nations then that we would be emphasizing. Some of the ways I think Mystara differs is that it doesn't rely on the made-up common language. In my games, Thyatian is common but it wouldn't be as you moved out from Thyatian influence (I haven't read much of the Savage Coast so I don't know what language they use) Another way is that the different races all competes equally for resources. Elves, dwarves, hin and goblinkin aren't dying out but have built and sustained their own governments. Humans aren't the dominate race (maybe the largest population). I think this should be reflected in class level for demi-humans. Perhaps attracting those that want to play where there are no artifical limits to non-humans. Even with what few differences I can come up with I'm not sure how they would impress distributors. I wouldn't even know how to try. Thanks for bringing us to reality, Bruce. I think if we understand where we are realistically we have a better chance of succeeding. _____________________________________ This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 16:19:41 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystarans Unite Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 18:50:43 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #168 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 2b428cba71c2907e1944af50dbfae857 Please, everyone who is interested in seeing Mystara back in print, send a message to Place any comments you have in your message. Think very carefully on what Bruce Heard wrote recently and come up with reasons why Mystara is unique. Mystara needs you! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 17:43:40 EST From: Ambreville Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth (missing post #1) This one of the messages that failed to make it to the MML last Friday. I'll get the other one about Greyhawk next week. Sorry about the foul up... >-----Original Message----- >From: Bruce Heard >Sent: Friday, March 13, 1998 8:53 AM >To: 'Mystara-L@MPGN.com' >Subject: Rebirth, et al... >I tried grabbing a few more posts re. the Mystara rebirth... I hope you'll forgive me for this rather unstructured and casual approach to responding to these posts. >>>Seriously, I do think Mystara was a casualty of war in the death of D&D. JJust so they could focus on only one rule system. Of course, now we have two new ones: SAGA and Alternity.<< >Correct. Mystara was switched over to AD&D as an attempt to avoid its immediate demise when OD&D went the way of the dodo. It wasn't done right, it inherited unwanted audio CDs, they were priced too high, advertising grew scant, corporate support was laughable other than executive meddling with game design, and eventually the whole line fell victim of TSR's overall sagging sales. ><Alternatively -- maybe that would be a good system to bring back Mystara >under? It could hardly be worse than what they did with it under AD&D.>> >Ayup... No SAGA, no Krynn. You might just as well stick with AD&D. As a tactic, I would suggest you guys/gals be a more bit patient (sorry, I know it stinks), and aim for a Mystara relaunch to coincide with AD&D 3rd Edition (sometime after year 2000 I guess). It might take >this long to get the corporates at WotC to get on the Mystara bandwagon. Be prepared. >>Ok. How about this...We compile a list of names/e-mail addresses(for purposes of verification) kinda like a petition. We attach the list tto a >>letter and toss it WotC's way. >Sure why not. I would address it directly to Peter Adkison (MAVRA@Wizards.com) and Bill Slavicsek who is the current man in charge of the TSR division. These two will ultimately make the decision. I would also strongly suggest you bring RPGA into the loop first. Trying to get Mystara restarted by talking to the top of the food chain is nice, but there is lots to say about using the backdoor. If we could convince RPGA to have a Mystara Living City with current AD&D or even OD&D (or something to that effect), we could bring in far more supporters into the loop. This would in turn support the request for a rebirth better than anything else you might come up with. There IS safety in numbers. Are you prepared to jump into the fray and help RPGA organize such an event, and provide your personal help as judges and participants??? This seems like a lot of fun, since you would be able to play with your favorite setting while accomplishing something constructive at the same time. Plus WotC will love ya for bringing in more people under the RPGA protective wing. It's also a nice way to build internal support for Mystara within WotC. >>Well, this all seems very strange to me, especially after all that's bbeen >>said and done by TSR and WotC after the merger. I mean, they swore tthey'd >>never engage again in useless and hazardous product, and to cut the bbudget >>they closed some of the old lines like our beloved Mystara, Greyhawk aand >More than ever, WotC will be ruthless in its quest to cut out lines that can't pay for themselves. Sales of Magic are taking a turn for the worst, and you should expect some turmoil at WotC in the years to come. TSR's been there/done that before and it's no fun, believe me. Don't harass them when they run into these problems and start acting up again (financial instability does that to a company). In a nutshell, Mystara has to be in a position to look like a genuine gold bar by the time pressure is built to relaunch it. A lot of work has to take place BEFORE it reaches that point, else your efforts will be wasted. Rush not into battle until your armies grow mighty enough and ready for war, lest they be mercilessly swept aside and forever crushed! :) >>>The failure lies in lack of talking directly to TSR, I'd say.<< >Talk is merely a start. For durable results AND half a decent chance for the relaunch to SUCCEED, terrain must be prepared first. Banging one's fist on a table won't work in the case of Mystara (at least I don't think it will) since Mystara presently has little or no internal support among the TSR creative staff. ><Mystara be seen as an "Official" world.>> >I know you would love that, but a "net-Mystara" probably won't fly as a product publishable by TSR. I know how the system works and this won't jive with the creatives at TSR or the WotC corporates. Offering help will however be perceived favorably, especially if it is part of the RPGA network (makes it look more "official"). Beware though -- there usually is next to zero time tolerance for proofing and design suggestions, either during the design process, between design and editing, and even less at editorial stages. I maintained TSR production schedules for many years and I doubt that will become any better, especially when you realize WotC is trying to cut costs. Seems familiar doesn't it?! ><money.>> >Don't kid yourselves, WotC is in the business to make money too. Big surprise. You just have to live with it. You have to remain realistic about who you are dealing with. This is a private enterprise and you should not expect them to publish anything if there is no benefit for them. That's why Mystara has to become an attractive opportunity first. I hope I'm not rambling or repeating myself too much. :) >Okay -- I guess this is it. I hope I didn't skip too many issues -- sorry if I did. Anyone cares to round up the handful supporters posting at TSR's Mystara message board? More later on this topic. I'll check with some of my connections at RPGA -- re. a Mystara-based event. Take care (and for Rad's sake, put these flames away, it looks terrible to outsiders and it is not constructive in any way). Thanks a bunch. >Bruce Heard >(Ambreville@AOL.com) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 15:20:00 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Orcus i say that in general much of the "origins of immortals" information in Mystara is pretty confusing. i prefer to leave these things blurry and oftentimes let PCs have no idea what immortal they are worshipping nor even what their exact alignment is (i.e. player characters who think of themselves as very lawful, and who worship Ares, are actually servants of Orcus). this works better for a mysterious element to religion. peace, m@2 "You're not really in love with yourself - you're just in love with the idea of being in love with yourself" - said to me by one of the two little fellas who hang out on either of my shoulders ... I can't remember which ... On Sat, 14 Mar 1998, DM wrote: >I was reading thru WotI last night and i suddenly thought about a strange fact concerning Orcus: he is said to have been sponsored by Thanatos a long time ago and that he was in mortal life a one of the first devil swines of Mystara. However, since devil swines first appeared in AC 623 (more or less), then Orcus is not that old. However, he's a 25th level immortal now, which means he must have been really active in 300+ years of immortality... mmmhh.. >Also, i thought the fear of Orcus in thyatian culture was much older than 400 years.. but this contradicts my idea. What do you say? >DM >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 15:44:36 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - responses Very interesting! My present campaign is set in the Thanegioth Islands in the summer of 977 AC. I have been thinking about posting the story as it goes along but haven't had time. One of my players wants to write a journal, which he will then post. My campaign is VERY similar to what you are talking about ... the PCs are approx. 5th level and they are leading a small war machine-size unit of Thyatin troops. Basically, the story goes as follows: the Rory Barbarossa journal entry and attached map, rather than falling into the hands of Karameikan adventurers, was traded in Specularum to a representative of the Emperor (assigned as liaison to Duke Stefan) .... this map was then given as a "political gift" to a powerful senatorial family (the house of Philoprogenites) who were to be allowed to explore the area and reap the profits of pearl beds, ancient artifacts, etc. in exchange for building a naval base for the emperor to ward off Ierendi and Alphatian influence in the area. This expedition left, commanded by the Senator's wayward youngest son, with two seasoned Thyatin officers and a century each of hoplites and archers, supported by Buhrohur Engineers and Vyalia scouts, and four Dromons with rowers and supplies. They sailed south and after a close encounter with a bad storm, landed on the big easternmost island - where they were attacked by fierce troglodytes. They circumnavigated the island and landed again, having decided to destroy the troglodyte threat before building a base on the western bay. They soon discovered that there were other inhabitants of the island, humans of the Tegor race (same as Tanaroa) - they found that these humans were separated into small villages, which were manipulated and bullied by each other and by the troglodytes (who were in turn dominated by a race of "demon-men" - actually Yuan-Ti - living in an old volcano in the center of the island). basically, I am using the old greyhawk module I1 - Dwellers of the Forbidden City, adapted to Mystara, and expanding on it for complex politics. The island is dominated by the Yuan-Ti, who are allied with a rogue Alphatian Wizard (Horan), and living in the ruins of an ancient carnifex/serpentine city. These Yuan-Ti have dealings with Bugbear mercenaries who were brought to the island chain by the Aranea (who trade all through the archipelago) and with Tasloi scouts (some mounted on giant wasps) who carry messages back and forth to the troglodytes, who live in another ancient serpentine ruin and are led by a Spirit Naga. Also, there are bullywugs and mongrelmen on the island, and various types of dinosaurs (of course). The PC's - now led by one of the Centurions, Apollinaris Varro, who removed young Philoprogenites from command for incompetence and gross negligence, had him arrested for insubordination and striking a superior officer, and then stabbed him to death while in the act of attempting to escape his confinement - have made a deal with one Human leader, Chief Wiikusiik'map of the Iipatungo tribe, to defeat and subjugate his enemy, Chief Tojaiawa of the Kojuluuk tribe, with the eventual goal of uniting the humans on the northern side of the island and marching on the troglodyte temple and destroying it, following which Varro intends to attack the City of the Demon-Men and raze it to the ground, then build a harbor and start constructing more ships with the eventual goal of conquering the whole archipelago. i have a question for you: what is the source of the gator men you spoke about? AFAIK canon sources say they are confined to the SC (not that that would ever stop me) - where did the ones you mention originate? m@2 "You're not really in love with yourself - you're just in love with the idea of being in love with yourself" - said to me by one of the two little fellas who hang out on either of my shoulders ... I can't remember which ... On Sat, 14 Mar 1998, Flindor wrote: >-ray brooks- I emailed tsr about how bad the map-maker utility on the corerules cdrom and they said that this summer ver. 2 will come out with a ton of improvements to make maps on the computer. Check out their website. -geoff gander- My campaign is on hiatus until this semester is over and I can write and dm all summer. I am going to run x1:isle of dread (after I get the PC's out of Thyatis? and then later Glantri X2) and am going to write a series of adventures involving the rest of the island chain. I see one of the islands being a pirate base or community and another being torn apart by warfare between kara-kara (and maybe some gatorman allies) and natives (and maybe lizard man allies). I figure the pc's in my campaign should be 5-7th level and I want to introduce a little war machine on them. I also can't wait to send jurrasic park style raptor after them! Taking a cue from babylon 5 I have set out the entire campaign (perhaps around 15 complete/expanded modules) and this is the only real "hole" to be filled. I am going to write the right the finale (i don't want to run a campaign with 20+ lvl characters though by then I might change my mind) that should be a trilogy. The next time I submit I'll set down a few ideas that I have. >In general: I have been involved with other unsupported items (star frontiers and the amiga computer) before and I think that a good idea would be for everyone interested to submit stuff (even if not that often) such as mini- modules, scenarios or tricks of the trade. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 17:48:26 -0600 From: "Cecil Cosman" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Responding to the message of Fri, 20 Mar 1998 13:40:40 +0100 from Peter Balazs : >Hi! >>give the elves X free cantrips a day. >That¥s a great idea! I will probably include it as a skill (Int -4 or something)! Everytime the elf makes the roll, he can use the natural and magical energies to copy the effects of the cantrip-spell! I seem to recall reading about a cantrip skill proposed in Dragon. It was like one of the only dragons I've read. I have no idea what issue number it was tho. IIRC the skill proposed was very well done. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 18:49:23 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara << >2.4 Rogue >Bard: Can be used normally. I generally think that they have too much spell power though. Maybe this should be limited. Darokin Mercheant could be a Bard kit. Get rid of the magic ability (what does that have to do with singing anyway?). Not just cut it down get rid of it completely. >> I have complained about the ability grabbing before. The bards are a real good example to demonstrate what I mean. We all should have a picture what a RW bard was (or is!). First it has nothing to do with magic. In D&D we have the skills, in AD&D IIRC the abilities. To create a bard you only have to take a fighter and give him the talent of singing, playing an at least one instrument, storytelling and acting. Some other talents might prove useful for a bard. This way you can create a character type with existing rules WITHOUT using another character class. You want to have a bard with thieving abilities? Fine, take a thief instead of a fighter! Your bard should be able to cast magic? No problem! Take a cleric or a magic-user! The same thing you can do with rangers and paladins instead of using the AD&D classes which are IMO burdened with minimum scores and class abilities. Galwylin might add some points on this matter too. I know that he knows what I mean. Somebody on this list formulated the "as simple as possible" principle. I agree to that. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #168 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 06:56:22 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #169 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 5554c4d8694cdcb6c83b0b6692d6f49c mystara-digest Sunday, March 15 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 169 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Weaponry and Injuries Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - READ THIS -- Tact and Such Re: [MYSTARA] - Other cultures Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara [MYSTARA] - Mystara Rising [MYSTARA] - matt levy response Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - matt levy response Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills & Powers (kinda long) Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Rising Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth Re: [MYSTARA] - Find Familiar Re: [MYSTARA] - Other cultures Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills & Powers (kinda long) Re: [MYSTARA] - First Quest novels Re: [MYSTARA] - READ THIS -- Tact and Such Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Rising Re: [MYSTARA] - SaveMystara! Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Orcus Re: [MYSTARA] - Vanya and the Hattians ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 18:49:27 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Weaponry and Injuries << >The English Yew longbow was and is a fine weapon. The panic it caused was ddevastating. I cannot remember the battle's name, but the English longbowmen decimated the pride of the French by slaying their noble knights while they charged. "The end of the world" aspect could be explained by the deaths of the >aristocratic knights. f the Agincourt? >> Crecy? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 18:49:26 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara << Spell abilities: Once a day the elf can cast faerie fire, dancing lights, and >a light/darkness spell as a priest or wizard of the same level. When the character reaches 4th level, he can add levitate, detect magic, and know alignment. >Does this help? That's those drow abilities I was referring to. I think that's a little much just to have a little knowledge of magic. >> And again: Compare the drow with Shadow Elves! The Drow have dozens of abilities and the Shadow Elves not. But whom we more like? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 18:49:30 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - READ THIS -- Tact and Such << As for Jamuga Khan, he does at times display a uppityness in his responses. I do not think he means it to come across that way. He does have his biases. I cannot argue with him on that. For being biased is an opinion, and you cannot debate opinions. >> Hey Alex, you know really unusual words. I had to look into a dictionary to find out what you meant. Unfortunately I have to admit that I sometimes make this impression to other people. As I said before I don't have so much time as I would like to have and I learned English in school when I was ten. So sometimes some sentences slip through which insult other, but normally it is not meant this way. In this point you have understand me obviously. Thank you very much. Jamuga Khan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 16:15:48 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Other cultures On Tue, 10 Mar 1998, stan wrote: >>Has anyone detailled Mystaran cultures relating to the following RW cultures? >>Ethiopians >The map of Skothar on the MOrient homepage has an area set aside for an Ethiopian culture, so ... But then again I haven't really seen anything come out of the MOrient crew in a little while. where is this MOrient homepage? I tried to find it through your page but couldn't. thanks, m@2 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 19:37:27 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara At 06:49 PM 3/14/98 EST, you wrote: >I have complained about the ability grabbing before. The bards are a real good example to demonstrate what I mean. We all should have a picture what a RW bard was (or is!). First it has nothing to do with magic. You're right; real world bards have nothing to do with magic. Neither do real-world priests, wiccas, and psychics. But they do in D&D. >In D&D we have the skills, in AD&D IIRC the abilities. You want to have a bard with thieving abilities? Fine, take a thief instead of a fighter! But the bard is more than just a thief, or fighter, or magic-user with an ear for music; he's a combination of them all! That's why he's got so many different skills. He's not the best at any of them, but he's good at lots of different things. You can't simulate the bard's versatility just using General Skills or Non-Weapon Proficiencies. Anyone could be a bard by those criteria. Bards are more than just musicians, especially in fantasy. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 21:31:34 EST From: Ambreville Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Rising More stuff.... <> Yes. The cool features of Mystara should be apparent without being obtrusive, so the material remains familiar to seasoned Mystara fans, and intriguing to outsiders. The adventures should not require prior indepth knowledge of Mystara. Unusual features should otherwise be explained upfront so new comers don't get frustrated with an unfamiliar setting (don't make assumptions about what people know about the setting). <> Initially, yes. But as I pointed out, there are variants of the original Living City campaign, and a Greyhawk version is in the making. No doubt the concept could eventually be used for Mystara. <> Since it wasn't done right with 2nd Edition AD&D, there's really no sense in trying to redesign Mystara once again for the same game system. It might be cleaner just starting over with 3rd Edition (provided there is one) right from the beginning. And yes, we ARE hopping on one foot, in the dark, and with one hand tied behind our back! Welcome to Long Term Design Strategy 101! Game companies deal with this all the time with various degrees of success! :) <> Indeed -- the more you understand the terrain, the better your chances at dealing with its obstacles. I thought this would be an eye-opener for some. On the other hand, I'm not claiming to know it all either. As I inferred earlier, part of this kind of planning is relevant to throwing darts into the dark. Please feel free to challenge my views! :) Thanks, Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 22:39:49 EST From: Flindor Subject: [MYSTARA] - matt levy response Thanks for the post on the thanegioth archapelago. The gator-man came from the creature catalog (dmr2 9438) page 47. I have no idea wether or not this monster appeared anywhere else - they might have come from a module. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 00:24:41 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara At 07:37 PM 3/14/98 -0500, you wrote: >At 06:49 PM 3/14/98 EST, you wrote: >>I have complained about the ability grabbing before. The bards are a real good example to demonstrate what I mean. We all should have a picture what a RW bard was (or is!). First it has nothing to do with magic. >You're right; real world bards have nothing to do with magic. Neither do real-world priests, wiccas, and psychics. But they do in D&D. Just a quick comment on the historical...ahem...mythology of bards... The bard was considered to be a mystical figure and therefore the spellcasting ability is justified. The thieving part of it though...that has me stumped! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 21:47:46 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - matt levy response do you have access to the Red Steel boxed set or any Princess Ark episodes from back issues of Dragon? As far as canonical placement of sentient races the Creature Catalogs are stunningly unhelpful. The Gator Men essentially were supposed to be mutants produced from Lizard Men stock by magical experimentation by Herathian mages along the Savage Coast. As such they were confined to a relatively restricted area. Never fear, however, because I am working on a theory as to how/why there are so many similarities between the races of the Savage Coast and the Thanegioths (and also the highlands of Thothia). Basically the idea is that the Aranea have a network of spatio-temporal gates which allows them to maneuver into several places in the history of Mystara simultaneously. So they could have brought the gator men, is what I'm saying. peace, m@2 "You're not really in love with yourself - you're just in love with the idea of being in love with yourself" - said to me by one of the two little fellas who hang out on either of my shoulders ... I can't remember which ... On Sat, 14 Mar 1998, Flindor wrote: >Thanks for the post on the thanegioth archapelago. The gator-man came from the creature catalog (dmr2 9438) page 47. I have no idea wether or not this monster appeared anywhere else - they might have come from a module. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 21:58:32 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills & Powers (kinda long) On Fri, 13 Mar 1998, Inconu wrote: ><< >Now I see the Skills and Powers/Spells and Magic books to be great! They really add alot of dimension to the classes. The thing I would warn people of is letting the PC's go hog wild. You really have to check each character over so that they don't take abilities that are too powerful or don't make sense. >> >Spells & Magic was definately one of the best sourcebooks that has come out in a while. I have no quams about that book. The Skills & Powers book just seemed to be too easy for a PC to get carried away with, like you said. actually i thought the spells and magic book was more unbalancing ... but with trustworthy (i.e. self-supervising) players it can be really stimulating ... The breaking >up of ability scores definately did not fit my campaign, but a friend of mine does use it when he DMs. i find that the break up of ability scores does work, but only under very specific conditions: you have to ixnay the traditional "bonus dice" method of rolling stats (4d6, drop lowest, etc.) - instead make the PCs roll ONLY three dice for their stats, and be firm. Then, let them sub-out their ability scores. This way, they can get bonuses on some portions of their abilities, but they have to choose carefully. A 13+ stat yields rewards this way (just like OD&D) but you don't have the problem of "stat inflation". i really like the way it works out. Only one chapter helped me, and that was the third cchapter: Racial Requirements. >It's suposed to be for the PC's....but i've changed it around in my campaign. Basically you have basic abilities to add to your race. Say you were an elf, treat your character as if it has no special abilities. Now you have 40-45 points to buy certain abilities.....Infravision....+1 with swords.....all that good stuff. I didn't like that because of how it's not believable to me that a bunch of Elves from the same family could have such radically different abilities. >So what i did was i just made a custom Elf for the type of Elf you were. On my Mystara, I have lots of the other continents developed. there are Alfheim Elves, Dustachia Elves, Anannian Elves, etc.... Each one has talents that reflect on what type of Elves they are. I've had many of the same ideas, actually. But pray tell what are Dustachia and Anannian Elves? Where do they live? >Anannian Elves are a kind and helpfull race, and have been for generations.....so their abilities reflect that..... >A certain Elven society is based on martial arts and stealth, and like the Annanians, their abilities reflect it. They can find secret doors and have (+1) to hit with daggers, but do not hold the +1 bonus with the long bow. interesting - maybe these are related to the Siswa Elven Monks of B7? >The Anannian Elves never lived with structures around them...they've always been in the forest, so they don't have reason to know of secret sliding walls, thus they can't detect them. However, they may speak with plants. >See what i'm gettin at???? >I've done the same with Dwarfs and such as well. I really doubt that fits into many...or anyone's campaign, but it just so happens to fit into mine. That was the only thing that really helped me from that book though. this fits my campaign too. I even think you can have separate Dwarven "package deals" for each of the Rockhome clans, etc. m@2 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 01:22:02 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Rising In a message dated 98-03-14 21:44:51 EST, Ambreville@aol.com writes: >As I inferred earlier, >part of this kind of planning is relevant to throwing darts into the dark. Please feel free to challenge my views! :) Well -- you have the important advantage of having been in the room prior to the lights being turned out. So you can help us answer one of the most important questions in regard to "throwing darts in the dark" -- namely, "Where is the dartboard?" Then one of us can prepare to throw while the others make sure that nobody is standing between the darboard and the guy with the dart.... *************************************************************************** Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 06:56:22 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #169 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 5554c4d8694cdcb6c83b0b6692d6f49c To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 01:22:00 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth Bruce Heard asked us -- what sets Mystara apart from other game worlds? The answer is rather simple but subtle -- the Immortals. While very few player characters become Immortals themselves, the very existence of the Immortals and the possibility (however remote) that any character may eventually become an Immortal both shape the world of Mystara in some very significant ways. To begin with, most AD&D game worlds are dominated by a very crude and obvious struggle between Good and Evil. Every player character knows that he is on the side of Good, and some classes (the Paladin and Ranger) are set up so that a player will face immediate and severe consequences if he strays from the "true path". But Mystara, prior to its conversion to AD&D, had a far more sophisticated approach, which was completely lost on those folks at TSR who saw it as a "beginner's world". By omitting the Good/Evil alignment axis and having "good" Chaotic characters as well as "evil" Lawful characters, Mystara eliminated the easy and obvious labels. But personality development did not suffer -- characters still had not only the Law/Chaos alignment axis but the five Spheres as well as their cultural backgrounds shaping their personalities. But with the Good/Evil axis removed, adventurers gain a larger degree of personal responsibility for their actions. Whereas a DM in a standard AD&D campaign would warn a player of an impending alignment shift if he contemplated having his character commit an evil act, the proper question for a DM in a Mystara campaign to ask would be simply, "Are you sure you want to do that?" If the character goes ahead and commits the evil act, there is no immediate retribution -- but somebody, somewhere, will be adversely affected by it and eventually will react. In the tradition of the Greek tragedies, all actions have consequences, and the character will eventually meet his well deserved fate, brought about by his own actions. Also, since every Immortal was once a first level adventurer, the most powerful types in this world recognize an equality of all sentient beings that would be considered nonsensical in other worlds. This belief is reflected in the incredible degree of social mobility possible on Mystara - -- where else would a slave have any chance of becoming emperor of the second greatest empire in the world, and fighting off the forces of the greatest empire in the world in order to do so? Where else would a kobold have any chance of becoming a ruling Prince in a civilized nation? Such events are rare even on Mystara, but in most other worlds they would simply be impossible. In most AD&D worlds, the campaign suffers if player characters become too powerful. Only the Birthright world readily supports player characters who are ruling nobles -- but that world, from the way I saw it promoted at Origins a few years ago, seems meant to appeal to wargamers, not to mature roleplayers. And high level player characters are an even worse problem for most worlds, the "High Level Campaigns" supplement notwithstanding. Only Athas/Dark Sun has rules specifically tailored for "advanced beings" -- but wouldn't most DMs consider such characters to be obscene if their players became avangions or elementals? For Mystara, on the other hand, it is quite natural for player characters to advance all the way to maximum level, become Immortal, and continue advancing and gaining yet more power. The world is set up in such a way that low level characters can find places where they are safe enough to deal with challenges of their own level, but even Immortals can find challenges worthy of them elsewhere. As for recruiting allies to bring back Mystara -- I think that there are some natural recruiting targets within the old organization of "Wizards of the Coast". Remember "The Primal Order"? Get those folks together with the folks who created Mystara for TSR, and I think that it will be possible for them to come up with some great work. And what about Dominia, the world of "Magic: The Gathering"? Perhaps "Dominia" is where the Immortals hold their duels -- this would still leave Mystara as the main world from which new Immortals are recruited. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 02:52:23 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Find Familiar Given the hit point loss associated with the death of a familiar in AD&D -- perhaps the proper penalty should be loss of one level? This would be one good argument for making the spell at least second level -- what happens to a 1st level Mage drained of one level? And given the "Conjure Companion" ability given in Gaz 3, it would make sense for this "Find Familiar" spell to be on the curriculum of the Great School of Magic. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 02:52:54 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Other cultures In a message dated 98-03-14 16:11:21 EST, mlevy@orion.oac.uci.edu writes: >here again, hungary is a european culture with heavy german and slavic iinfluence ... it's hard to picture "M-Hungary" on the borders of the Cayma or the Wallaras. So we must look in the locations where Hattian (German) and Traladaran (Slavic) cultures already coexist. Glantri is one possibility, but it is already pretty well filled up. What about western Thyatis? One problem -- Hungary's culture is really neither German nor Slavic, but a unique culture heavily influenced by both. Where would such a culture come from in Mystara? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 02:52:58 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills & Powers (kinda long) If you do use the racial abilities from "Skills and Powers" in a game, you really should pay attention to the associations of certain abilities. Since some abilities are associated with particular subraces, no player character should be able to purchase them unless he has some ancestry from that subrace -- which would provide some definite hooks as well as potential problems for roleplaying. As for Mystaran demi-humans -- I think we should come up with "package deals" for standard demi-humans from Mystara. Take Dwarves, for example -- clearly, the Dwarves of Rockhome are not Hill Dwarves, Mountain Dwarves, or any other subrace described in any existing AD&D supplement. Another item that I am thinking about for a future Web page.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 05:18:43 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - First Quest novels << Hi I was just reading the Dragonlord series. And I wondered which other novels were set in Mystara. I think I know all the official ones. But I think I read on the list that there were one (some?) of the First Quest novels that were set in Mystara. I'd like to know the names of these. Sune Kloppenborg Jeppesen >> Son of Dawn Rogues of Riches Dark Knight of Karameikos The Black Vessel The Penhaligon Trilogy (but it's a "fictional" trilogy in MYSTARA !!!) Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 06:01:46 EST From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - READ THIS -- Tact and Such In a message dated 98-03-14 19:05:03 EST, Jamuga Khan writes: << Hey Alex, you know really unusual words. I had to look into a dictionary to find out what you meant. Unfortunately I have to admit that I sometimes make this impression to other people. As I said before I don't have so much time as I would like to have and I learned English in school when I was ten. So sometimes some sentences slip through which insult other, but normally it is not meant this way. In this point you have understand me obviously. Thank you very much.>> Yes even I, at times, am quite amused at the series of words that come out of my twisted mind. Sometimes I even get them right. Some of my words cannot be found in any dictionary. Back in school, I had an English teacher who once remarked "Mr. Benson!!! From your handwriting and grammatical skills, I have deduced that you are either a genius or a fool" He never would settle on one of the two. Do not feel frustrated towards the English language deal. Heck, I have been speaking it since I was a child and can butcher it as easily as anyone. That is one thing we Americans are proud of, our abuses on the English language. Besides the Atlantic Ocean, it is one of the things we do to seperate ourselves from the old country. I often forget that the List is pretty international in its make up. I think the english speaking members can get an idea of what I mean. I shall have to keep this in mind more often. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 06:46:45 EST From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Rising In a message dated 98-03-14 21:44:51 EST, Bruce responded to someone's query: >I think this is where we're having the most trouble. Mystara hasn't been fitted with AD&D 2nd edition well yet and I wouldn't even know what to tthink about 3rd edition. Just a feeling of stumbling in the dark for me. <> So then maybe we should focus on Mystara itself. Not the rules to be used to utilize it. Let us face it, D&D is dead as far as being in print. The AD&D 2nd Ed. did not go over well and little is known about this 3rd Ed. to work with. So maybe we should focus on presenting Mystara to the masses as a world. Filled with people, creatures, and adventure. BTW- from what I remember on the old AOL boards the 3rd ED. was supposed to return to a simpler gaming system. Present the setting's nations and peoples in a detailed and informative manner. Stats and roll tables draw little attention, the people and places do. Prior to RL's Domains of Dread release, most activity on the old AOL TSR boards entailed the specifics about the evolutions of the people and places. But those are such things for folk fairly acquainted with the setting. We would have to present Mystara in a way that all types of gamers can see some interest. Things to point out- Magic. Gamers love magic. With Alphatia in HW the magic factor is reduced. I can think of but a few magical constructs that impressed my old group more than the conjured images of an Alphatian SkyShip. Dragons. Gamers love hunting dragons. Several settings are overflowing with dragons. It should be emphasized that Mystaran dragons are not your everyday, run of the mill dragons. Fantasy. Gamers play xD&D for its fantasy aspect. Let us put fantasy back into the setting. Legends, lore, and the images of armoured knights and wizened wizards should come to mind. And let us get back to basics. Let us get rid of democracies and return to kings, queens, tyrants, and conquerors. Secret orders, cults, and sects are a must. Fun. Gamers want to have a good time. I remember the old days when the DM asked you what you wanted to do. There was no dependance upon tables and such. Just pure imagination, subtly guided by a roll of the dice to decide matters impartially. That is something that needs to be returned to the game. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 06:55:18 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - SaveMystara! << 'Lo, forces of self interest! Gaze upon the mighty host of Mystara, and be dismayed! For none shall stand against their will! Whoops, sorry jeff, you kinda inspired me...:) Go ahead, brave riders! Circle round and round the evil hordes of ignorance and shoot volleys of your deadly arrows into their unprotected bodies until they beseech for mercy. Jamuga Khan P.S.: I couldn't really resist to add some Ethengarian flavour. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 06:55:21 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara << Well -- AD&D (2d edition) has the Cantrip spell, whose inherent limitations include the fact that the cantrip effets cannot cause damage or (in most cases) distract a spell caster's concentration. Allowing non-Mage Elves access to the Cantrip spell certainly has some possibilities. >> These [self-censored] cantrips! I've read about it many, many times. I know that they are absolutely low level spells which even are not high enough to qualify as 1st level spells. And they are not very useful. But what cantrips exists and how many a magic-user (or cleric?) can cast each day? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 06:55:22 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Orcus << Also, i thought the fear of Orcus in thyatian culture was much older than 400 years.. but this contradicts my idea. What do you say? >> Time travelling? Khoronus and Protius, Vanya and Petra did it too. T-Bone might wanted to add a little bit entropic time travelling. Jamuga Khan "What do you mean with "We're back"? I intended to send you tomorrow!!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 06:55:23 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Vanya and the Hattians << Vanya has now abandoned the SS, clearly seeing their evil, but she is powerless against them because Thanatos is protecting and giving them their spells! This is how things went IMHO. Reasonable? DM >> Please don't use the abbreviation "SS". Hattias is bad enough as it is presented in DoE. You need not stress this fact even more. Jamuga Khan "Keinen Fuehrer!" (Gothic ex-slave in the newest Asterix comic) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #169 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 13:15:08 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #170 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 4fd4e4a0db5d062499427e61571f295a mystara-digest Sunday, March 15 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 170 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Re: [MYSTARA] - First Quest *ITALIAN* novels ? Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Re: [MYSTARA] - threads and stuff [MYSTARA] - (Mystara) RW cultures in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - matt levy response Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Rising Re: [MYSTARA] - SaveMystara! Re: [MYSTARA] - Operation Hydra Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D [MYSTARA] - Mystara Rising!!!! Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystarans Unite Re: [MYSTARA] - Orcus Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 14:39:35 +0100 From: Lorenzo Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Galwylin wrote: >I've enjoyed playing AD&D but I don't enjoy DMing it because of all that you mentioned. I do think AD&D has more varity and much of that I've borrowed. Not to beat AD&D because I don't think it a bad system it's just focused different. To use my PBeM as an example... I allow AD&D classes such as paladins however I told my players that they are fighters working toward becoming paladins (at 9th lvl then getting the abilities). They maintain their faith then the chosen Immortal allows them into the order. Now if I used the AD&D rule for paladins, they already have those abilities and so the reason to maintain their faith is to keep them. They're not working for a personal goal like they are with my version of paladins. I also use the same type rule for rangers. AD&D makes the classes less personal by heaping these things onto characters so that they work to maintain abilities instead of working toward. I just like that focus better. >I like having elves being able to have classes too but there is something to be said for making the elven way different from human. I think Elves of Alfheim went a long way with me in showing their society isn't a copy of human but completely different with different outlooks and abilities. I understand and I cannot blame you at all. I like especially what you said on the paladin's power and how he gets them. But there's one thing that makes me discard completely the D&D system, and that's the difference between class and race, as I said before. I cant imagine a world without dwarven priests, elven thieves, or half-elven thief/mages. It's impossible that all the elves are able archers, swordsman and magicians: that's too limitative and quite unreal, IMO. Lorenzo. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 14:45:19 +0100 From: Lorenzo Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - First Quest *ITALIAN* novels ? Fabrizio Paoli wrote: >>I was just reading the Dragonlord series. And I wondered which other novels were set in Mystara. I think I know all the official ones. But I think I read on the list that there were one (some?) of the First Quest novels that were set in Mystara. I'd like to know the names of these. >Son of Dawn >Rogues to Riches (not sure about the correct name) Hey Fabrizio, sai se percaso qualcuno di questi libri è stato tradotto in italiano ? Sono piuttosto ignorante in materia. La domanda è rivolta anche agli altri italiani della lista. Lorenzo. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 08:38:57 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D At 02:39 PM 3/14/96 +0100, you wrote: >I cant imagine a world without dwarven priests, elven thieves, or half-elven thief/mages. It's impossible that all the elves are able archers, swordsman and >magicians: that's too limitative and quite unreal, IMO. Not trying to change your mind (in fact, I'd like to just explore this for myself). I think it's possible to look at the class of elves, dwarves, and halflings the same as a human that hasn't chosen a class yet. They have potential for many different things that their player can choose for them. Of course, these choices have to be added from the Gazatteers, house rules and such. You have an elf that wants to be a thief, so you give him skills to simulate the abilities of a theif. The skill of pick pockets, for example, gives the same percentage as a human theif's abilitie at 1st level. Each time you add to that it increases the ability as if he had gone up a level as a thief. I believe clerical ability is already covered but you can always add to it though I think a elven cleric would be totally different that a normal cleric so you wouldn't want to make it too similiar. Doing such things though can make the demihumans more powerful but they already have level limits to counter that. This is just a thought I had while reading the Player's Option: Skills & Powers book. I realize AD&D is probably easier but this allows demi-humans to be even more personalized. Anyone have any other thoughts on this? Hate it? Love it? Have I lost it? ;) Every time I refer to elves, dwarves and halflings as classes I remember an AD&D player telling me he wanted to dual class from an elf to a dwarf _____________________________________ This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 15:06:51 GMT From: cpb@gatewest.net (Chris Paul Billows) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D On Fri, 13 Mar 1998 10:11:36 -0600, you wrote: >At 04:10 PM 3/12/96 +0100, you wrote: >>Yes, it's true that rules/tables and such things may slow the game (indeed tthe >>first games were very slow - we ought to leaf through the handbook much of tthe >>time), but I have reason to say that this happens only the first times wwhen the >>rules aren't well known by master and players. When you begin DMing an AD&D campaign you should set some parameters (because kits, expansions and similarities are really huge in quantity), then you have to create the characters (which is, too, a long operation). I feel that D&D is a good and easy system, but it lacks a basic consideration that we can find in AD&D: the difference between classes and races. I want to play an elven thief !!!! >[I cut the parts out I won't be replying to] >I've enjoyed playing AD&D but I don't enjoy DMing it because of all that you mentioned. I do think AD&D has more varity and much of that I've borrowed. Not to beat AD&D because I don't think it a bad system it's just focused different. To use my PBeM as an example... I allow AD&D classes such as paladins however I told my players that they are fighters working toward becoming paladins (at 9th lvl then getting the abilities). They maintain their faith then the chosen Immortal allows them into the order. Now if I used the AD&D rule for paladins, they already have those abilities and so the reason to maintain their faith is to keep them. They're not working for a personal goal like they are with my version of paladins. I also use the same type rule for rangers. AD&D makes the classes less personal by heaping these things onto characters so that they work to maintain abilities instead of working toward. I just like that focus better. >I like having elves being able to have classes too but there is something to be said for making the elven way different from human. I think Elves of Alfheim went a long way with me in showing their society isn't a copy of human but completely different with different outlooks and abilities. >_____________________________________ >This has been a Galwylin© Production I am a hard and fast supporter of OD&D over AD&D. I think when you mention wanting to have a elf thief... that is fine. But elves as a race are so much more powerful than humans and halflings... why bother picking a different race? This is what leads to munchkinism IMO. Yes OD&D is rigid... a race is considered to be a class but at least all the classes are balanced in terms of game play. OD&D was simple and fluid... the differences between the characters was based on role-playing instead of class. TSR chose AD&D over OD&D because of its legal wranglings in the past... and because it is the system that you can complicate more with character kits, etc. You have more to sell as you have more to produce. It makes sense in terms of business but it gives way to munchkinism. __________________________________ | |\ | Chris Billows | | | Check out my Gaming Memoirs | | | www.gatewest.net/~cpb/gaming/ | | |_________________________________| | \_________________________________\| *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 15:07:16 GMT From: cpb@gatewest.net (Chris Paul Billows) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - threads and stuff On Fri, 13 Mar 1998 08:30:22 -0500 (EST), you wrote: >I couldn't agree more. I don't need tables for everything and find them more a nuisance than something useful. Especially with the Rules Cyclopedia, OD&D is a heckuva lot cheaper to start out on also. AND this is why AD&D wins over D&D... It is simple and unfortunate economics. A simple and elegant gaming system is lost because TSR can make more money off selling more rules... sorta like the battle between Beta and VHS or UNIX and Windows95... marketing and profit is what makes it in the marketplace. __________________________________ | |\ | Chris Billows | | | Check out my Gaming Memoirs | | | www.gatewest.net/~cpb/gaming/ | | |_________________________________| | \_________________________________\| *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 10:46:51 -0500 (EST) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: [MYSTARA] - (Mystara) RW cultures in Mystara A bit of a combination of two threads here... someone on the list was discussing uses of the Thanegioth Archipelago and another thread was discussing the use of real world cultures in Mystara. One culture not discussed in the thread was that of the Cuban peoples. I think a Cuban culture would fit in well in the Archipelago, closer to the 'civilized' nations. Since this is near many of the powerful nations of the world, the area would have been a site for conquest often (unlike the islands further away, like the Isle of Dread), switching hands repeatedly, never managing to control their own fate. The island could originally have been a Milenian conquest (back in the glory days of the empire) (copying the Spanish colonization days), having been one of the colonized areas to break free during the 50-year decline (100 BC-50 BC). The Alphatians would have moved in, seeking power as always, and claimed the land as their own, denying the natives' wish for independence (mimicking the US role in Cuba at the turn of the century). When the Thyatians and other Alphatian subjects gained independence in year 0, the island could have joined in the freedom effort, but unable to stand up to the Alphatians themselves, sided with the Thyatians, the Alphatians' main opposition (mirroring the alliance with the Russians after the revolution). Now, since Thyatis doesn't crumble for over 1000 years (unlike the USSR's 50-yr collapse forcing Cuba to become independent of outside support mainly) we'll have some divergence from RW history. So, here's how things would go: like the Pearl Islands, Ochalea, etc, the island becomes a victim of the power-grab by Gen. Zendrolion Tatriokanitas that formed most of modern-day Thyatis. The peoples though, after so long being a colony of another, seek independence much more actively than the Pearl Islanders or Ochaleans. They realize they cannot stand up to Thyatis so take to teaching their descendants to seek freedom and create a large underground movement ready to control the country when Thyatis starts to collapse. Now, with Thyatis starting to collapse around 1000+ BC, the island prepares their move for freedom.. This would be a good setting for a campaign IMO, especially if the players are natives who are in the freedom movement. The history/culture would need alot of fleshing out of course, but hopefully this makes a good intro to the situation. What do the rest of you think of this history/setting idea? Islander Travis Green on the Penguins 1997 line of Mario Lemieux, Jaromir Jagr and Ron Francis (who is 10th in career NHL points): When you have Superman, Batman and Robin, they're going to get a few *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 11:04:52 EST From: Magesmiley Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - matt levy response In a message dated 98-03-14 22:53:06 EST, you write: << Thanks for the post on the thanegioth archapelago. The gator-man came from the creature catalog (dmr2 9438) page 47. I have no idea wether or not this monster appeared anywhere else - they might have come from a module. >> I believe they first appeared in X9 (The Savage Coast). - -Mage *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 11:08:11 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth At 01:22 AM 3/15/98 EST, you wrote: >Bruce Heard asked us -- what sets Mystara apart from other game worlds? >The answer is rather simple but subtle -- the Immortals. These are some great thoughts! Be sure and send your essay to ! And all of us should be thinking of the various things that make our setting unique. Someone should detail the uncommon races (rakasta, lupin, tortle), the common races (why are Mystaran elves different? No half elves, the various human races...), the nations (Alphatia, Glantri, Thyatis, the mix of real and unreal), the magic and the idea that Mystara is a magic heavy world with modern countries churning out every day miracles, the ancient failed techno empire of Blackmoor. When I say detail, of course I do not mean numbers and tables. I mean describe the flavor these things have and the passion you feel for them. Seek to excite whatever traveller might happen upon your words! In this battle we have to overcome people with our exuberance and see that they submit to our cause... But at the same time we must remain focused. Don't allow your message on the subtleties and nuances of your favorite Mystaran element to shutdown anyone else. Describe your favorite element without allowing the idea that it is the only unique element to creep into your writing. Show excitement too about what you love, but don't criticize others or their settings. This has not been done...I am just rambling. But it is a good ramble. Please everyone, send your thoughts and ideas to ! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 11:28:02 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Rising At 06:46 AM 3/15/98 EST, you wrote: >Things to point out- >Magic. Gamers love magic. With Alphatia in HW the magic factor is reduced. I can think of but a few magical constructs that impressed my old group more than the conjured images of an Alphatian SkyShip. I am inclined to suggest that we all base our writings in AC1000. That is where the vast majority of background is and IMO it is where the true Mystaran flavor is. But in any case, if you are like myself and believe that Alphatia is one of the truly unique factors then by all means assume it still exists in the outer world. Actually, come to think of it, this is another thing that is unique about the Mystaran setting. One can choose to play in the year 1000, 1014, or 0, or -3000. The timelines are so clear that one can really go wild with a time travel campaign. >Dragons. Gamers love hunting dragons. Several settings are overflowing with dragons. It should be emphasized that Mystaran dragons are not your everyday, run of the mill dragons. Ok, but why are they different? How are they different? I would not suggest putting negatives on the message board (ie; Mystara does NOT have any metallic dragons except gold). Rather explain what makes the dragons we do have different. Heck, the whole alignment system of dragons is different. One can actually meet a good red dragon. Obviously draconic nature still tends toward reds being bad and golds being helpful to humans. But the possibilities remain. Somebody please write to and tell how dragons in Mystara are unique! >Fantasy. Gamers play xD&D for its fantasy aspect. Let us put fantasy back into >the setting. Legends, lore, and the images of armoured knights and wizened wizards should come to mind. And let us get back to basics. Let us get rid of democracies and return to kings, queens, tyrants, and conquerors. Secret orders, cults, and sects are a must. Rather than get rid of the republics and whatnot, tell of the kingdoms of Norwold, Vestland, and Karameikos that are indeed more like the favored knights vs dragons settings; and then also include the Viking, Italian, French, Byzantine influenced Mystaran cultures. Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 13:15:08 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #170 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 4fd4e4a0db5d062499427e61571f295a >Fun. Gamers want to have a good time. I remember the old days when the DM asked you what you wanted to do. There was no dependance upon tables and such. >Just pure imagination, subtly guided by a roll of the dice to decide matters impartially. That is something that needs to be returned to the game. Absolutely. In our descriptions we should steer clear of numbers and tables. And if we can get a game going at the next convention we should emphasize roleplay over rules. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 11:31:02 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - SaveMystara! At 06:55 AM 3/15/98 EST, you wrote: ><< 'Lo, forces of self interest! Gaze upon the mighty host of Mystara, and be ddismayed! For none shall stand against their will! >Whoops, sorry jeff, you kinda inspired me...:) >Go ahead, brave riders! Circle round and round the evil hordes of ignorance and shoot volleys of your deadly arrows into their unprotected bodies until they beseech for mercy. Thanks Jamuga! You send your Ethengarians to harry the enemy! Fabrizio can have his elves lie in wait for the enemy to trap and ambush. Alex and I and anyone else interested will rouse the Alphatians and their mighty airships to conquer from above! Geoff Gander and all involved with Davania should seek to explore the place and bring tales of the hopeful new land! The power and mystery of Mystara will overtake the un-screaming, unbelieving armies of naysayers! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 11:32:05 EST From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Operation Hydra I just realized that it has been quite awhile since I sent an installment of the ongoing Operation Hydra. For those new members, Op. Hydra is a proposed Thyatian Invasion of the Minrothad Guilds. The time setting is post WotI and loosely fixed around AC 1015-20. In case you need a refresher or have no idea what I am talking about, the previous installments are online at Shawn Stanley's web page. And if you do not know Shawn's URL then something is wrong with you. Ax *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 11:40:43 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D At 02:39 PM 3/14/96 +0100, you wrote: >Galwylin wrote: >I understand and I cannot blame you at all. I like especially what you said on the paladin's power and how he gets them. But there's one thing that makes me discard completely the D&D system, and that's >the difference between class and race, as I said before. I cant imagine a world without dwarven priests, Ah but there are. In the D&D Rockhome Gazetteer dwarven clerics were presented. They are secretive and private. If they go adventuring they tend to masquerade as warriors. My thought on this is that it is not so much deception as (dwarven philosophy playing into this here!) nobody's business. elven thieves, or half-elven >thief/mages. It's impossible that all the elves are able archers, swordsman and >magicians: that's too limitative and quite unreal, IMO. Well, it is possible that elven culture and attitude dictates that property is not stolen because there is no real property. They are a fantasy race. This works I think. As for them all being magicians...hey! They are magical! Why not? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 11:44:22 -0500 From: Daly Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Rising!!!! Somebody get on SaveMystara@cmnwrld.com> and explain the whole rising Elf civilization in Mystara! Whomever is interested in representing the unique quality of Alfhiem explain how most elven civs on other worlds are in decline while on Mystara it is either on the rise or at the very least holding steady. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 11:56:04 EST From: RLaRue Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth Greetings! >>In most AD&D worlds, the campaign suffers if player characters become too powerful. Only the Birthright world readily supports player characters who are ruling nobles -- but that world, from the way I saw it promoted at Origins a few years ago, seems meant to appeal to wargamers, not to mature roleplayers.<< I'm sorry you got this impression from Birthright. That was one of it's biggest downfalls. It mistakenly got labeled as a "wargame". It has war game elements, but it is by far the most mature setting made by TSR. As far it not being for "mature roleplayers", that's just silly. The problem I see with promoting Mystara as the setting of Immortals is it will grab the attention of munchkin power gamers. I can hear the cries of "I want to be an Immortal! I want to be an Immortal!" now. If you think FR and DS are for powergamers, just wait. That Mystara will have trouble competing with FR and GH is a valid point. The attempt to bring Mystara into 2nd Ed. was badly done and there is a definite stigma attached to the world as one for beginners. This is due in part to how it was presented in 2nd Ed. and the idea that D&D is simplistic in comparison to AD&D. I don't know D&D well enough to argue the differences, but the lack of a moral axis for alignment, the limitation of racial classes and a preoccupation with "a class for everything, and everything in its class" as opposed to a core of classes with kits added for variety, tends to support this theory. At least to the casual observer. It may not be true, but that doesn't stop people from thinking that and it may be too late to change it, regardless of the rules used. To make matters worse, the Known world can seem like a poorly organized, hodge-podge of cultures placed with little or no fore thought or logic. The fact that they are well developed (for the most part) and interesting can easily be missed. I've seen Mystara dismissed too many times by the saying "Isn't that the world that has the Vikings not far from the Arabs and Mongols?" IMHO, the Immortals are both the most interesting and annoying aspect of Mystara. The concept is intriguing as long as the "I can become an Immortal too, if I eat my vegetables!" is ignored. On the other hand, the hap-hazard way the Immortals screw with the world seems like a poorly veiled excuse for why some designers in the past were able to defy logic and "canon" to make what ever they wanted. Hollow World springs to mind. To out compete FR and GH, Mystara needs to be rebuilt from the ground up so it's consistent, logical and immune to power gamers. All the parts are there; the long history, the detailed cultural information and the chance for adventure that make Mystara (potentially) great, but due to a lack of unified vision throughout its production history, it seems to fall short. Flame me if you like, but if we all put are egos aside, we are left with the truth. Mystara failed for many reasons, not all of which are "TSR is stupid!" If many of the reasons aren't addressed, then won't it just fail again? "We" may not see them as problems, but most people did and that is a problem. Rick PS My vision of Mystara is obviously different from many people's, but that doesn't make anyone else's Mystara stupid or not "Mystara". That's part of why I'd like not to see a revived Mystara. As it stands, the world is mine to do as I please without anyone (even TSR) having a say in what I do with it. Sure I could always ignore new products, but that would be annoying. Remember how happy you all were when Mystara returned in AD&D 2nd Ed. form... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 18:29:40 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystarans Unite At 20.29 13/03/98 EST, you wrote: >Think also of offering independent game events at conventions. Run Known World adventures, Hollow World, Red Steel; think about table-top wargames with >miniatures depicting some historical WotI battle, adapt the rules form SpellJammer for some pre-Wrath airship battles either in the skies over Thyatis or in space. How about this -- a theatrical rendition like the ones performed during GenCon ("A day in Pandius" with the actors playing out the roles of Immortals???) -- whatever strikes your fancy, as long as it gets the attention. Offer to run Mystara-based games in game clubs, or as demos in hobby shops... Try to agree on a date and time to show up on live chat boards and stage Mystara-related discussions... etc. I'm going to do this in a convention that will take place in my hometown in a couple of weeks. I'll run a Mystara game and an Orcwars match. You're all invited to join (especially the Italians :-) I think there'll be also official representants of WotC at the convention. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 18:31:33 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Orcus At 11.14 14/03/98 +0100, you wrote: >I was reading thru WotI last night and i suddenly thought about a strange fact concerning Orcus: he is said to have been sponsored by Thanatos a long time ago and that he was in mortal life a one of the first devil swines of Mystara. However, since devil swines first appeared in AC 623 (more or less), then Orcus is not that old. However, he's a 25th level immortal now, which means he must have been really active in 300+ years of immortality... mmmhh.. >Also, i thought the fear of Orcus in thyatian culture was much older than 400 years.. but this contradicts my idea. What do you say? The info of devil swines first appearing in AC 623 is from PC4, right? If that is right I would say this is another example of TSR contradictions. Just my opinion. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 18:34:19 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara At 09.40 14/03/98 EST, JamugaKhan wrote: About Druids >They have spells ("Pass through Plants" and "Recall") to hold contact over incredible distances. Put one real Great Druid on the top (or three for Davania, Brun and Skothar) and we get a secret society almost unnoticed and unnoticable by most people. >The goal of the druids should not be world conquest, but preserve of the nature (which might be the same at some point :-) ). The advantage: When a druid get trouble, he can get aid very fast. Shadow Elves have a similar spell that allows them to travel trough rocks. Really a powerful spell, I usually give it to Tunnel Shapers. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 12:12:28 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth At 11:56 AM 3/15/98 EST, you wrote: >I'm sorry you got this impression from Birthright. That was one of it's biggest downfalls. It mistakenly got labeled as a "wargame". It has war game >elements, but it is by far the most mature setting made by TSR. As far it not >being for "mature roleplayers", that's just silly. I'm playing in an online Birthright game and we're not using the wargame aspects of the setting. It has a wonderful approach to the different races (of course, the elves are being pushed back and losing again) and offers more than the 'become king' idea that TSR pushed forward. I don't know if I'd call it the most mature since any setting can claim that title as its up to the DM and players how mature they want their game to be. >The problem I see with promoting Mystara as the setting of Immortals is it will grab the attention of munchkin power gamers. I can hear the cries of "I want to be an Immortal! I want to be an Immortal!" now. If you think FR and DS are for powergamers, just wait. This is probably true but as long as munchkin players have money to support a setting I enjoy, I can live with that. I personally have never played Immortal characters. In fact, I'd rather such powers not be too involved in the daily goings on in settings. >To make matters worse, the Known world can seem like a poorly organized, hodge-podge of cultures placed with little or no fore thought or logic. The fact that they are well developed (for the most part) and interesting can easily be missed. I've seen Mystara dismissed too many times by the saying "Isn't that the world that has the Vikings not far from the Arabs and Mongols?" I believe the Northern Reaches/Emirates proximity is pointed out more than any other aspect of Mystara. It did used to bother me a bit until I realized, unlike other settings, Mystara isn't moving toward a more technological world but towards a highly magical way of life. It has already pocessed the same level of technology as we have and destroyed themselves. So, I think, such strange landscape features wouldn't be surprising given it's magical nature. Also, I expect Al-Kalim's dream of removing the gateway to the plane of fire in the Emirates to happen soon and make that a moment of history. How others, unfamiliar with Mystara's history, see it though is still a problem. >IMHO, the Immortals are both the most interesting and annoying aspect of Mystara. The concept is intriguing as long as the "I can become an Immortal too, if I eat my vegetables!" is ignored. On the other hand, the hap-hazard way the Immortals screw with the world seems like a poorly veiled excuse for why some designers in the past were able to defy logic and "canon" to make what ever they wanted. Hollow World springs to mind. I think the Hollow World was a good idea though I don't know how popular the Spell of Preservation is. Part of the greatness of Mystara is its varied past but I think it loses part of its mystery if you're able to go see the culture exactly as it was thousand years ago. >To out compete FR and GH, Mystara needs to be rebuilt from the ground up so it's consistent, logical and immune to power gamers. All the parts are there; the long history, the detailed cultural information and the chance for adventure that make Mystara (potentially) great, but due to a lack of unified vision throughout its production history, it seems to fall short. I don't know about that. I would rather have the rough spots smoothed over and let the past remain intact. Some of it I'm not crazy about but I think if it can be progressed well then it will add to the whole. >Flame me if you like, but if we all put are egos aside, we are left with the truth. Mystara failed for many reasons, not all of which are "TSR is stupid!" >If many of the reasons aren't addressed, then won't it just fail again? "We" may not see them as problems, but most people did and that is a problem. One thing I like about this list is the small number of flames (excusing myself again). I know that I'm amazed that others don't think Mystara is the best setting, er.. one of the best settings and know that what I think as charming others think of dumb. Unfortunately, I seem to be the minority since this setting is unpublished but I don't think its the settings fault or that TSR is stupid. The players taste have changed and settings like FR do catch the eye easily. >PS My vision of Mystara is obviously different from many people's, but that doesn't make anyone else's Mystara stupid or not "Mystara". That's part of why I'd like not to see a revived Mystara. As it stands, the world is mine to >do as I please without anyone (even TSR) having a say in what I do with it. Sure I could always ignore new products, but that would be annoying. Remember >how happy you all were when Mystara returned in AD&D 2nd Ed. form... I think we want to see Mystara returned because we're as interested in its story as we are of playing in it. I like seeing what's happening in areas I'm not nor plan on using. It helps to know the world around you is continuing without you having to write it. And as older role-players give up playing, newer ones won't have the chance to discover something thats so long OOP. _____________________________________ This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #170 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 17:46:23 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #171 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 7197c460c076a036e7fc18c17d3c7f7f mystara-digest Sunday, March 15 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 171 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mapping resources Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Rising Re: [MYSTARA] - (Mystara) RW cultures in Mystara [MYSTARA] - modules and islands (was threads and stuff) [MYSTARA] - AD&D [MYSTARA] - FWD: 'Mystara Rising' Campaign Re: [MYSTARA] - Orcus Re: [MYSTARA] - threads and stuff Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystarans Unite Re: [MYSTARA] - FWD: 'Mystara Rising' Campaign Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystarans Unite Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 13:27:34 -0500 From: Chris Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mapping resources Seems like Campaign Cartographer or Fractal Mapper had some downloadable map symbols on they're webpages. I think they were in BMP format but I am not completely sure. I'll check and get back to you!! Ray Brooks wrote: >A question for all you mapping gurus out there. >A friend and I are working on some maps for a campaign world he is creating and we're looking for map-appropriate clipart and fonts. Does anyone have any ideas? What I'm thinking about are map symbols (little trees, mountains, hills, waves, compass points, etc.) whether they are clipart or done in a font style (sort of like those symbol fonts that you see around). Colour or black and white are both fine. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 10:40:12 -0800 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Rising At 06:46 AM 3/15/98 EST, Alex295 wrote: >[...snip...] >Things to point out- >Magic. Gamers love magic. With Alphatia in HW the magic factor is reduced. I can think of but a few magical constructs that impressed my old group more than the conjured images of an Alphatian SkyShip. This comment caused me to think of something kind of cruicial -- WHEN within Mystara should we concentrate on getting more products? I mean, yeah, I *know* that the 'official' stuff goes a few years beyond WotI, but is that the place to 'start' when trying to bring new people into the fold? Think about it this way -- one of the things that *I* like about Mystara is all of the incredible detail in all of the different countries that were outlined in the various Gazetters. WotI is interesting, and a lot of people like it for its 'world spanning' consequences, but would it be it as 'interesting' to play with, as a DM or a PC, if you knew little of what Mystara was like before? And post Wrath is interesting because it is so different from the Gazetter era, with new aliances and a vastly changed political spectrum, but would it be as 'interesting' without knowledge of the preceding era and the cataclismic effects of WotI? IM(ns)HO, I think that we should encourage the Rising of all existing Mystara Eras. We should encourage continuation of the 'story so far', preparing new Adventures and whatnot for the post-wrath era, but we should ALSO encourage continuation of Mystara 'as a whole' by preparing Adventures that fit into the Gazetter era AND into the WotI era. (My understanding of WotI is that it comes with a few adventures, but not a complete set that would take a PC right from 1st to whatever-level -- I could be wrong though, I don't own it). If a conversion to 3rd Ed. is the 'way to go', lets aim to eventually get ALL of it converted (or at least reprinted!) so that New Comers can slip into AC1000 Darokin or Karameikos with a set of Gazetters (hopefully in the same style and relative price range as before) just as we did. Or they can start with post-wrath and move backwards in time at a later date, much as the DA modules went 'back in time' from the Gazetter era. Those of us who own Gazetters already would still benefit from new Modules but now we could also buy Gazetters 'missing' from our collections, and we could even choose to replace ones we already have with 3rd Ed. versions if we were so inclined. I don't think we should 'abandon' the original Gazetter era, because I think that *that* is one of the unique things about Mystara -- the vast amount of information that is ultimately available and the huge number of locations and time periods from which a DM can choose to set his campaign. Well, that just my two passem's worth ;-) ^^^^^^ (a Darokinian Copper) Jenni - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs strawberry@jamm.com <==> http://www.jamm.com/ <------------------------------------------------------------------> God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. Then God started to think: "I should create things *I* like!" And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 10:41:14 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - (Mystara) RW cultures in Mystara This is really interesting and creative stuff, and I am all in favor of the creation of an M-Cuba ... but I strongly disagree that the Thanegioths are a good place. This is because all canonical sources agree that the area has always been more or less untouched by Thyatin influence and more or less unknown to the "civilized" nations; also, I am a little biased because a lot of work I have been doing on the Thanegioths recently, extrapolating from official sources, depends on the idea of it being really an "unexplored" land (from the point of view of the KW). I would suggest an alternative location for MCuba ... somewhere south of the Savage Baronies and west of the Serpent Peninsula. Then, one of the baronies could have easily colonized the island during their initial imperial explorations, using it perhaps as a base of operations for explorations along the mainland coast, and maybe fighting pirate wars with Ierendi and other enemies ... the native population (M-Arawaks), of Oltec descent, would have suffered from plague brought by the Afflicted, and been killed by smokepowder guns, etc. Then, slaves could have been brought from Yavdlom, and mixed into the population as well after being freed. As for the US&USSR period, why do we have to use modern cuba as a model? colonial cuba is fascinating as well, and more appropriate to the setting. anyway i don't mean to attack your work, you are very creative and your proposal is fascinating ... i just think it doesn't work for the thanegioths. peace, m@2 "You're not really in love with yourself - you're just in love with the idea of being in love with yourself" - said to me by one of the two little fellas who hang out on either of my shoulders ... I can't remember which ... On Sun, 15 Mar 1998, Mischa E Gelman wrote: >A bit of a combination of two threads here... someone on the list was discussing uses of the Thanegioth Archipelago and another thread was discussing the use of real world cultures in Mystara. One culture not discussed in the thread was that of the Cuban peoples. I think a Cuban culture would fit in well in the Archipelago, closer to the 'civilized' nations. Since this is near many of the powerful nations of the world, the area would have been a site for conquest often (unlike the islands further away, like the Isle of Dread), switching hands repeatedly, never managing to control their own fate. The island could originally have been a Milenian conquest (back in the glory days of the empire) (copying the Spanish colonization days), having been one of the colonized areas to break free during the 50-year decline (100 BC-50 BC). The Alphatians would have moved in, seeking power as always, and claimed the land as their own, denying the natives' wish for independence (mimicking the US role in Cuba at the turn of the century). When the Thyatians and other Alphatian subjects gained independence in year 0, the island could have joined in the freedom effort, but unable to stand up to the Alphatians themselves, sided with the Thyatians, the Alphatians' main opposition (mirroring the alliance with the Russians after the revolution). Now, since Thyatis doesn't crumble for over 1000 years (unlike the USSR's 50-yr collapse forcing Cuba to become independent of outside support mainly) we'll have some divergence from RW history. So, here's how things would go: like the Pearl Islands, Ochalea, etc, the island becomes a victim of the power-grab by Gen. Zendrolion Tatriokanitas that formed most of modern-day Thyatis. The peoples though, after so long being a colony of another, seek independence much more actively than the Pearl Islanders or Ochaleans. They realize they cannot stand up to Thyatis so take to teaching their descendants to seek freedom and create a large underground movement ready to control the country when Thyatis starts to collapse. Now, with Thyatis starting to collapse around 1000+ BC, the island prepares their move for freedom.. >This would be a good setting for a campaign IMO, especially if the players are natives who are in the freedom movement. The history/culture would need alot of fleshing out of course, but hopefully this makes a good intro to the situation. What do the rest of you think of this history/setting idea? >Islander Travis Green on the Penguins 1997 line of Mario Lemieux, Jaromir Jagr and Ron Francis (who is 10th in career NHL points): When you have Superman, Batman and Robin, they're going to get a few >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 11:07:23 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: [MYSTARA] - modules and islands (was threads and stuff) On Fri, 13 Mar 1998, Geoff Gander wrote: >Flindor wrote: >>-What's your favorite printed modules and why? >Of the ones I have, I'd have to say that X11 (Saga of the Shadowlord) ranks pretty high up there, because of its high fantasy aspect (very powerful magics), and it presents info on another elvish nation. Plus, the history of Essuria is very interesting. All in all, a well-written piece. hear hear! a great module. I keep finding myself actually wondering about the connection between Essuria and the Taymorans. But that's a subject for another time. >Honourable mentions also go to: CM7 (The Tree of Life), X1 (The Isle of Dread), B2 (The Keep on the Borderlands), X4 & X5 (The Master of the Desert Nomads and The Temple of Death), and B4 (The Lost City) - all of these have, IMO, that classic mix of high adventure and good plots, some better than others. And also they introduce tons of campaign background. The big failure in this area was X6, which is just a map with very little thought to "feel". >>-What ones do you hate and why? >I wasn't too keen on X12 (Skarda's Mirror) - I don't know, it just didn't appeal to me very much. The trick to X12, IMHO, is to do it as atmospheric horror ... My friend Mike (who normally DMs only very rarely) took on my usual role as DM for that one, and I and two friends took in a party of just three characters and decided to play through the whole module in two consecutive nights ... the mirror-fiends that inhabited the tower were maddeningly sneaky and the whole thing had us on the edge of our seats the whole time. It's not much for campaign background but as horror it works really well. >>-Has anyone ever writen adventures for the other islands of the thanegioth archapelago? >No, but Matt Levy is running a campaign in the area. You should contact him for more info - his centres on one of the easternmost islands, IIRC, and uses campaign info that has been generated by the list. Indeed, I am doing such a thing. The basic history goes as follows: long ago (c. 8000 BC), the Carnifex colonized the islands. They set protective spells of awesome power around the islands, making them difficult to find, for these islands were their food supply. They sent bio-engineered Kopru masters and Troglodyte slaves to establish plantations in the jungle. Later, the trogs rebelled during the Lhomarrian-Yhog wars, and the whole system fell apart. The Kopru attempted many times to reestablish their empire, but it failed for one reason or another. Along the way, Aranea from Herath began appearing there through magical means from outside (probably a gate, on the small island just west of the easternmost island). They brought with them various exotic humanoids, like Rakasta and Phanatons and Bugbears and Lizard Men. Also, many lizard men may have filtered in from northern Davania over the years. A large wave of human colonization came in during the movements of the Tangor peoples (c. 2200 BC), and these humans formed the core of the second great Kopru empire, which conquered most of the sea of dread region and had dealings with the Serpentines, Taymorans, and Nithians. In this period, numbers of Yuan-Ti and Nagas moved to the eastern island, importing beastmen slaves and bullywugs descended from the frog folk of blackmoor. There are also Tasloi in the islands, and their origin is uncertain ... possibly they were created by the Yuan-Ti. Anyway, by about a thousand years ago the Kopru empire collapsed again, partially due to subversion by the Aranea, and the island chain has a loose but complex politics in which no one group is dominant. Locals have canoes big enough to travel the chain, but not to get to anywhere else ... the group of pirates in X1 are Ierendi privateers, stranded by the wreck of their ship and not skilled enough to build a new one big enough to escape the islands. the existence of the island chain was more or less a rumor or possibly a closely guarded secret of the ierendi and thyatin navies, until Rory Barbarossa visited there c. 975 AC. He returned home and died before he could go back, but his journal (IMC) came into the hands of the Thyatin Empire, which sent an expedition in 977 to build a base in the islands. Currently, I am playing out their quest to dominate the eastermost island (which, because of the way i have my future campaign planned out, means that if they succeed they will not be able to acheive contact with thyatis again for one reason or another). the island with the gate (just to the southwest) is a secret Aranea research station, and in the future I have charted out (from campaigns already played, in the future) that it will become the base for a powerful Alphatian mage named Conto Brookpark, c. 1025 AC or so. Also, some of the other eastern islands, as well as the Isle of Dread, will be seized for mining rights (though not actually colonized) by various Thyatin noblemen, such as Baron Andre Hencias and Count Emilio Priazzo. anyway i will leave more information until you ask me for it. peace, m@2 >I think Alan Derek Jones' adventures (is it you, Alan, who has them on the Dungeon Master Utilities page?) are designed for classic D&D. I am also planning on writing an adventure or two to put up on my page. Have you considered writing one? I would be willing to play-test it. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 12:33:08 -0000 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Chris Paul Billows meandered fecklessly... >I am a hard and fast supporter of OD&D over AD&D. I am a hard and fast supporter of people using the rules that suit them. >I think when you >mention wanting to have a elf thief... that is fine. Right, and having a ssystem that support this is also fine. >But elves as a >race are so much more powerful than humans and halflings... why bother picking a different race? This is what leads to munchkinism IMO. I assume you are referring to the AD&D elf race here. If not, ignore me... I have been roleplaying for 16+ years. I don't say this to impress anyone or imply this makes me "right." I do say it to show I have a lot of experience. I started with AD&D, when it first came out. In all my years as an AD&D player, I have _never_ seen the elf, as a race, grant any character a significant overall advantage due simply to them being an elf. I have never seen a campaign where the elf and its abilities overshadow the other, non-elf characters. I have never seen the abilities of an elf provide any advantage that can be termed "munchkin". Why pick another race? Simple: roleplaying. If a person chooses to play a race based only on the abilities it grants, the system has not failed, the player has. Exceptions are possible, of course. In a game where one race has a three page list of advantages compared to the others, for example. The game Rifts tends towards this, if you need a reference point. But AD&D is not Rifts. Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 17:46:23 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #171 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 7197c460c076a036e7fc18c17d3c7f7f In every game I have ran with good, mature roleplayers, the party has been composed of a good mix of races and classes. In the game I am running now, for example, there are no elves; the only non-human is a dwarf. >Yes >OD&D is rigid... a race is considered to be a class but at least all the classes are balanced in terms of game play. In my years of roleplaying AD&D I have yet to see one class or race prove to be unbalanced, at least not the classes from the official core rules. (Don't _even_ bring up Barbarians :) This reminds of the "High Level Wizards are Ubercharacters" arguement I see every once in a while. Yet I have played in numerous campaigns where the wizard class was just as balanced as the others, and did not overshadow the other characters with any regularity. I don't find OD&D to be any more balanced than AD&D, and have yet to see any proof to the contrary. >OD&D was simple and >fluid... the differences between the characters was based on role-playing instead of class. How is this any different from AD&D? >TSR chose AD&D over OD&D because of its legal wranglings in the past... and because it is the system that you can complicate more with character kits, etc. You have more to sell as you have more to produce. It makes sense in terms of business but it gives way to munchkinism. There is nothing about OD&D that precludes the additon of more rules. The vast majority of rule supplements could be converted to OD&D with a little work. If AD&D had never been invented, these supplements could have been written from the ground up for OD&D. Extra rule books do not create munchkins, munchkins create themselves. Most gamers go through a powergamer/munchkin phase initially. After that they either wise up or quit the hobby. It is the rare gamer that remains a munchkin yet stays with the hobby. Besides, I think starting out as a munchkin is generally a good thing. It gets it out of your system. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 12:29:19 -0800 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: [MYSTARA] - FWD: 'Mystara Rising' Campaign Mystarans: Here is a copy of the message that I sent to the newsgoups rec.games.frp.announce and rec.games.frp.dnd regarding what I called the 'Mystara Rising' Campaign, including the petition that Jeff Daly is collecting names for. (Note that I included my email address as a 'sending point' too, just because I sent the message to the newsgroups, and I expect some individuals might just try 'replying' to it.) If you have friends who are gamers, who know Mystara, but who are not on the MML or do not read these two newsgroups, feel free to send the content found below to them too. :-) Jenni A. M. Merrifield - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- Hail and well met fellow Role-Players, This message has been sent on behalf of the 'Mystara Rising' Campaign -- a dedicated effort to revive the now-defunct TSR Campaign world of Mystara. You've never heard of Mystara? Don't be so sure. Have you ever played any old 'D&D' (as opposed to 'AD&D') modules, such as ones from the B or X module series? Have you ever heard of the 'Known World', the 'Hollow World' or 'Red Steel/The Savage Coast'? Mystara got a name as a world only recently; before that, it was often referred to as the Known World, although Mystara is actually much more than just the Known World. TSR products which are related to Mystara include the anything to do with the 'Known World', most stuff that was created for D&D including the various module series and the 'Rules Cyclopedia', the Gazetter Series, and the Hollow World Boxed Set. As suggested above, Mystara was originally created by TSR as a campaign world using the rules of the 'original' D&D game. Not too long ago, some of its source material was shifted into 2nd Ed AD&D format. Unfortunately, TSR also chose to market this 'new' Mystara as a 'beginners' campaign world. The resulting ales were low, partly because experienced Mystara players had little use for 'beginner' level accesories. Many of us, familiar with the wonderfully detailed world of Mystara, would like to let TSR/WotC see just how many Role-Players dedicated to or interested in Mystara there are, and hopefully convince them to bring our beloved campaign world back again. If you too, are a Mystara/Known World lover, and would be interested in seeing a revival of this Fantasy Campaign Setting, we would like to invite you to join with us. To begin with, we are collecting names and other information for a 'petition' that will be sent to a select few individuals at TSR/WotC. The content of this 'petition' and further information is attached below. If you would like to support this initiative, please review the letter and then send a private email with the requested information to any of the listed addresses. Secondly, we have also started collecting thoughts and comments about Mystara at web discussion board. If you would like to share your positive comments about Mystara/the Known World and what you would like to see if it were revived, please send your comments in an email message to: SaveMystara@CmnWrld.com. All comments are being collected for future reference, and can be viewed at the URL: http://CmnWrld.com/ForumBin/SaveMystara/ Thirdly, if you are so inclined, please consider joining the 'Mystara Mailing List' (MML), which is dedicated to Mystara specificly and discussions of the original D&D game. To join the MML, send email to: majordomo@mpgn.com. And, in the body of the message, have the single line... subscribe Mystara-L To post to the mailing list, send email to Mystara-L@mpgn.com. More information about the list, many of its current members, and access to many other Mystara-related web pages can be obtained from the official MML Home page at: http://www.lesbois.com/members/malacoda/mysthome.html Thanks for your time and patience in reading all the way through this long message. We hope to hear from some of you in the near future! >From Jenni A. M. Merrifield on behalf the 'Mystara Rising' Campaign - ----- Petition Information Below Here ----- Please review the letter that follows. The purpose of the letter is to demonstrate for WotC the powerful following Mystara has and to encourage them to resurrect Mystara as a setting. If you agree with this noble goal please e-mail Jeff Daly (jdaly@friend.ly.net) or Jenni A. M. Merrifield (strawberry@jamm.com) privately with your name and e-mail address which will then be added at the end of the message. We would also like to request that you include your "snail mail" address in your message, as this would lend an extra degree of seriousness to the letter -- the more ways WotC has to verify the information the better. However, we understand if you are unwilling to include your mailing address then please consider including just your home city, state and (if necessary) country -- they will certainly be keeping track of demographics. Thank you, >From the 'Mystara Rising' Campaign ********* Dear sirs, As the faithful consumers of the Mystaran product line, we would like to see the setting return either as a full line or as an independent accessory. We are aware that Wizards of the Coast does not currently believe they can successfully present any material based in Mystara. However it is our firm belief that Mystara's earlier sales are more reflective of the then current attempt to direct the setting toward beginning players. The experienced players had no reason to buy the products and so the setting faltered. A small but strong "test product" would be supported by all those signed here. We fervently hope you consider this. Yours, <> - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs strawberry@jamm.com <==> http://www.jamm.com/ <------------------------------------------------------------------> God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. Then God started to think: "I should create things *I* like!" And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 16:07:31 EST From: Mystaros Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Orcus In a message dated 98-03-14 05:27:17 EST, you write: << I was reading thru WotI last night and i suddenly thought about a strange fact concerning Orcus: he is said to have been sponsored by Thanatos a long time ago and that he was in mortal life a one of the first devil swines of Mystara. However, since devil swines first appeared in AC 623 (more or less), then Orcus is not that old. However, he's a 25th level immortal now, which means he must have been really active in 300+ years of immortality... mmmhh.. Also, i thought the fear of Orcus in thyatian culture was much older than 400 years.. but this contradicts my idea. What do you say? DM >> Personally, I regard the information regarding the "creation" of lycanthropy in Mystara by the Aplhatians as being not completely accurate... IMC, most forms of lycanthropy pre-existed the Alphatian plague, but were far less common than they are "today". The ALphatian plague created some new forms of lycanthropy and increased the occurence of other forms by large percantage points... thus, lycanthropes existed in the time of Blackmoor and the time of the early Traldar, of whom foul Orcus (aka Ares IMC) was a member (about 2400 years ago)... Mystaros *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 13:16:02 -0500 From: "DJ Sahlas" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - threads and stuff Flindor wrote: >-What's your favorite printed modules and why? I played B2 - The Keep on the Borderlands so many times that it almost feels as if I was there. B3 is excellent for beginning gamers IMO. B4 can really sprout into a full-fledged campaign. X2 is a lot of fun if you have read any of Clark Ashton Smith's stories of Averoinge. X4 and X5 are the best of the X series IMO. The PCs are somewhat accomplished, exploring new territory, and really playing a role in world events. Combined with X10 this is a real fantasy world epic. X11 is very well written, and high fantasy in the Tolkienesque tradition. The DA series, especially Temple of the Frog are incredibly fun. I remember sessions playing Temple of the Frog really late into humid summer nights by the torchlit swimming pool in a friend's backyard. (Great setting for a game!) >-What ones do you hate and why? I don't hate any of them, but B1 is kind of bland (which is why the recent additions posted to the list were so welcome!). B5 is somewhat redundant in the B-series. I remember my group being likewise disappointed with X6 Quagmire! It was a fun setting, but unlike, X1 Isle of Dread, for example, plot and purpose were somewhat lacking (ie. fun if you really pack a lot of your own stuff into it). Also, it kind of failed after X1 (kind of "done this before" kind of feeling). Jim Sahlas *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 15:56:49 -0500 From: "DJ Sahlas" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystarans Unite All this talk about what makes Mystara unique and exciting has prompted me to throw in my opinion as well. I mean, all fantasy campaign worlds have something to distinguish them from one another, but Mystara is truly different in one fundamental way. Whereas other worlds are also rich in depth and scope, they draw upon other fantasy traditions in a second-generation fashion. Mystara has always had the tendency to turn to the history and cultures of the real world for inspiration. This is analagous to the detail and scope a novel attains if an author writes from experience and personal knowledge rather than purely on the inspiration of others. What results is a wealth of background resources that are virtually limitless. The mythology of Eastern Europe is alive in the backwoods of Karameikos. The rise and fall of Byzantium is the template for the history of the Empire of Thyatis. Medieval France and Scotland live on in the hills of Glantri. The enlightenment of the Renaissance is arising from the mercantile nations of Minrothad and Darokin. A thousand Arabian Nights colour the dusk in the Emirates of Ylaruam. The Mongol hordes gallop across the plains of Ethengar. The one truly invented culture is the Empire of Alphatia, based upon the legends of Atlantis. Even the continents of Mystara bear a striking resemblance to our own planet as they might have once appeared in prehistory. Mystara is alive because it is a world of what-ifs. If magic was real, what effect would that have on daily living, or on international relations, or even on continental climate? What if a Viking culture lived across a mountain range from a desert formed as a consequence of powerful arcane forces? What if alien technology was made available to an ancient race that subsequently destroyed themselves with it and changed the face of the world in the process? What effect would time travel have on the unfolding of history? What if there were other oceans and continents beneath our feet, on the inner surface of a hollow world? What if artifacts of such power existed that they could change the nature of reality? With the depth and scope of the real world as your starting point, your imagination has an abundance of material from which to carve your own works of art. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 16:42:04 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - FWD: 'Mystara Rising' Campaign At 12:29 PM 3/15/98 -0800, you wrote: >Mystarans: >Here is a copy of the message that I sent to the newsgoups May I just point out now that Jenni is awesome? I think that was an excellent job of reminding people of the old X and B modules and everything else that is out there. We should all keep in mind that there may be tons of new people joining (Hey! Don't be so hard on ourselves! It could happen!) and we should be reeeeeal nice to everybody. But not just that, we should be as detailed and clear in our posts as well. But not just that either, generating excitement and longing for the setting has to be done at every level, like the great Mr. Heard said. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 16:47:16 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystarans Unite At 03:56 PM 3/15/98 -0500, you wrote: >All this talk about what makes Mystara unique and exciting has prompted me to throw in my opinion as well. I mean, all fantasy campaign worlds have something to distinguish them from one another, but Mystara is truly different in one fundamental way. Awesome post! Now send it to SaveMystara@cmnwrld.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 15:40:48 -0700 From: "Joe Gerber" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara - -----Original Message----- From: JamugaKhan >These [self-censored] cantrips! >I've read about it many, many times. I know that they are absolutely low level spells which even are not high enough to qualify as 1st level spells. And they are not very useful. >But what cantrips exists and how many a magic-user (or cleric?) can cast each day? Well, there is a difference between First Edition and Second Edition AD&D. In first ediotion, as you said, they are 0-level spells. In 2nd Ed, it is a single 1st level spell (with a multitude of effects). In 2nd ed, it is memorized and cast as any other first-level spell. (I don't have a 1st Ed. PHB, nor do I have a 1st Ed module handy, so I can't say how the progression for Cantrip-level spells go.) Joe *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #171 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 23:46:23 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #172 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 06a5396fd48080bb3c1b0959ba1bc97d mystara-digest Sunday, March 15 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 172 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Re: [MYSTARA] - SaveMystara! Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth Dimensions and Planes (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth) Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills & Powers (kinda long) Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills & Powers Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D realism vs OD&D fantasy Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 22:53:21 GMT From: cpb@gatewest.net (Chris Paul Billows) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D On Thu, 14 Mar 1996 14:39:35 +0100, you wrote: >Galwylin wrote: >>I've enjoyed playing AD&D but I don't enjoy DMing it because of all that you mentioned. I do think AD&D has more varity and much of that I've borrowed. Not to beat AD&D because I don't think it a bad system it's just focused different. To use my PBeM as an example... I allow AD&D classes such as paladins however I told my players that they are fighters working toward becoming paladins (at 9th lvl then getting the abilities). They maintain their faith then the chosen Immortal allows them into the order. Now if I used the AD&D rule for paladins, they already have those abilities and so the reason to maintain their faith is to keep them. They're not working for a personal goal like they are with my version of paladins. I also use the same type rule for rangers. AD&D makes the classes less personal by heaping these things onto characters so that they work to maintain abilities instead of working toward. I just like that focus better. >>I like having elves being able to have classes too but there is something to be said for making the elven way different from human. I think Elves of Alfheim went a long way with me in showing their society isn't a copy of human but completely different with different outlooks and abilities. >I understand and I cannot blame you at all. I like especially what you said on the paladin's power and how he gets them. But there's one thing that makes me discard completely the D&D system, and that's the difference between class and race, as I said before. I cant imagine a world without dwarven priests, elven thieves, or half-elven thief/mages. It's impossible that all the elves are able archers, swordsman and magicians: that's too limitative and quite unreal, IMO. >Lorenzo. I disagree... if you are looking for realism in your games then you should be allowed to role play a elven latrine digger... :-) Fantasy novels like Tolkien or Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time are wonderful because they make certain characters and races very typical. It is much easier to understand and accept that all Elves are such and such, dwaves are such and such. People do not stop reading these books just because they are not realistic... it is fantasy. I would agree that dwaven and elvish clerics do exist. But they never adventure thus they are not a player option. Just like a clanholder, relickeeper. That is why demihumans are so clannish... they are are like a advanced tribe that does not need to go outside of itself to do the things humans need to do. That is why they are only one class/race. __________________________________ | |\ | Chris Billows | | | Check out my Gaming Memoirs | | | www.gatewest.net/~cpb/gaming/ | | |_________________________________| | \_________________________________\| *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 00:56:06 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - SaveMystara! At 11.31 15/03/98 -0500, you wrote: >Thanks Jamuga! You send your Ethengarians to harry the enemy! >Fabrizio can have his elves lie in wait for the enemy to trap and ambush. Of course! ;-) And since I'm also in charge of Hule events for the net-almanac, I can send the Master's hordes too! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 20:35:35 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth In a message dated 98-03-15 12:09:52 EST, RLaRue@aol.com writes: >I don't know D&D well enough to argue the differences, but the lack oof a moral axis for alignment, the limitation of racial classes and a preoccupation with "a class for everything, and everything in its class" as opposed to a core of classes with kits added for variety, tends to support this theory. At least to the casual observer. It may not be true, but that >doesn't stop people from thinking that and it may be too late to change it, regardless of the rules used. Of the D&D features listed above, the only one that I would strongly defend is the lack of a moral axis for alignment -- it made possible the entire plot of _Wrath of the Immortals_, which I think has no real parallel in other AD&D game worlds. But the limitations on racial classes were a feature of D&D that Mystara seems to have resisted -- why else would each Gazetteer have sought to provide new options for character types? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 20:35:33 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth In a message dated 98-03-15 12:09:52 EST, RLaRue@aol.com writes: >I'm sorry you got this impression from Birthright. That was one of it's bbiggest downfalls. It mistakenly got labeled as a "wargame". It has war game elements, but it is by far the most mature setting made by TSR. As far it not being for "mature roleplayers", that's just silly. Given the problems with the way Mystara was marketed, I should have been clearer. At Origins, the folks from TSR definitely seemed to be pushing Birthright as a war game. It was many months before I was willing to take that setting seriously. But I think one factor that distinguishes Mystara from most other settings is the incredible degree of social mobility that it allows. In Birthright it is indeed possible to begin play as a ruling noble -- but your character's place in society is still fixed. In Mystara, a character can be born a slave and become emperor, and every Immortal was at some point a first level adventurer. But major reversals of fortune are also possible -- we also know of one Immortal who may have been reduced to permanent mortality (worst case scenario in "Mark of Amber"), and we also know of a former Alphatian Empire who is now a powerless scholar in exile. This degree of social mobility goes very much against the grain of a typical "medieval" society -- but it is also one of the major features of Mystara. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 20:35:40 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth In a message dated 98-03-15 12:09:52 EST, RLaRue@aol.com writes: >To out compete FR and GH, Mystara needs to be rebuilt from the ground up so iit's consistent, logical and immune to power gamers. All the parts are there; >the long history, the detailed cultural information and the chance for adventure that make Mystara (potentially) great, but due to a lack of unified vision throughout its production history, it seems to fall short. To begin with, trying to "out compete" Greyhawk or the Forgotten Realms would doom Mystara from the start. From what Bruce Heard said, we need to present Mystara not as an alternative of the same type to those game worlds but as a suppelementary world with vastly different characteristics. It should not be depicted in a way that competes directly with those worlds any more than Planescape, Dark Sun, or Gothic Earth were so depicted. But one tip we definitely should pick up from these worlds is that we should warp the AD&D rules to depict the important characteristics of Mystara -- not warp Mystara to conform to the standard AD&D rules as was done before. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 20:35:37 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth In a message dated 98-03-15 12:09:52 EST, RLaRue@aol.com writes: >The problem I see with promoting Mystara as the setting of Immortals is it wwill grab the attention of munchkin power gamers. I can hear the cries of "I want to be an Immortal! I want to be an Immortal!" now. If you think FR and >DS are for powergamers, just wait. Of course, one possibility to consider is to let the "munchkin power gamers" be hooked and then take advantage of the opportunity to bring them around to a more mature approach. Heretical as it may sound, letting the PCs begin play as Immortals may actually present some interesting possibilities - -- those of you who have the old "Immortal level" modules will know what I am talking about. The catch for the "munchkins" is that what they really want is to be vastly more powerful than any challenges that they may face. In a properly run Mystara campaign, that problem can be minimized -- there is always somebody "bigger and badder" than the player characters, whether it be bugbears for first level types or Old Ones for Hierarch Immortals. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 20:35:45 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Dimensions and Planes (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth) One concept that would be key to a revival of Mystara would be to revive the concept of "dimensions" as described in _Wrath of the Immortals_. At present, the inhabitants of Sigil in the Planescape setting believe that they are the ones most knowledgeable about the "dark" of the multiverse. In fact, all they know about is their own dimension -- which, because it contains the worlds of the Greyhawk, Dragonlance, Forgotten Realms, Spelljammer, and Planescape settings, can be fairly considered as containing 90+% of the AD&D gaming universe. But there are many alternate dimensions which, even though they are played under AD&D game rules, have vastly different structures and guiding philosophies. Dimensions not previously mentioned include the following: Dimension of Blood: The world of Birthright, with its dead gods, divine blood flowing through its rulers, and Shadow World seems to be somewhat removed from the standard AD&D settings, especially given the lack of any real crossovers between that world and any others. Dimension of Dragons: Athas, the Dark Sun campaign world, is generally held to be part of the the standard AD&D multiverse. But those who so hold admit that its contacts with other AD&D game worlds are rather tenuous. In fact, since we cannot rule out the possibility that the one verified contact between Athas and outsiders involves interdimensional rather than merely interplanar travel, it is quite possible that Athas is in its own dimension. The existence of such areas as the Grey and the Black as well as the all but complete absence of extraplanar powers all but confirm that Athas is in its own dimension. Dimension of Dread: Ravenloft is generally depicted as a "demiplane" floating in the Ethereal Plane, but it too seems to be strangely cut off from the AD&D multiverse -- nobody enters or leaves except at the whim of the "dark powers". Also, there are some rather extensive alterations to magic, including the inability of any magic spell to detect the good/evil axis of alignment. Surely it is not much of a step to go from such a universe to one where that alignment axis does not even apply? Dimension of Red Death: The setting for "Masque of the Red Death" as well as all of the HR supplements seems to be located somewhere "near" the DImension of Dread. It may even be identical with the "Dimension of Myth" from which the d'Ambrevilles of Glantri originated. Do you see where this is leading? Mystara would be in yet another dimension. The planar structure differs from that of the standard AD&D multiverse in various ways, some subtle (the different interactions of the elemental planes) and some not so subtle (the cutting off of the astral plane from the prime plane, and the removal of alignment as an organizing factor for the outer planes). To date there has been no official interaction between Mystara and the worlds of the "core" AD&D universe -- but what if that changed? Just revealing the "facts" as the Mystaran Immortals know them could be highly destabilizing in a place like Sigil -- what they would say would pretty much confirm the beliefs of the "Believers of the Source" as being close to true. Let a handful of Mystaran Immortals loose in the Outer Planes of the AD&D multiverse, and the resulting chaos could really liven up the Planescape setting. The retaliation of the AD&D "Powers" would liven up Mystara even more.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 21:32:40 EST From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D << I cant imagine a world without dwarven priests, elven thieves, or half- elven thief/mages. It's impossible that all the elves are able archers, swordsman and magicians: that's too limitative and quite unreal, IMO. >> I agree. The concept of Fighters coming out of the womb with a long sword and backpack, and Elves are born with a sword in one hand, a bow in the other, and a quiver on thier backs.... AD&D allows you to not know everything about a character by merely viewing it. I know that is a bit of a broad statement, but it works in the majority of cases. Example: "Pointy Ears??? look out...he knows magic....." - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 22:13:07 EST From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills & Powers (kinda long) >actually i thought the spells and magic book was more unbalancing ... but with trustworthy (i.e. self-supervising) players it can be really stimulating ... Really??? What part exactly do you think was unbalencing? I'm assumeing you mean the dimentionalists and Elementalists? If so, i really didn't think they were unbalencing .... i actually liked the new classes a lot. >i find that the break up of ability scores does work, but only under very specific conditions: Okay, i could see it working under specific conditions, but I really wouldn't enjoy using them. But i will talk to my friend about that, it might help him out. >I've had many of the same ideas, actually. But pray tell what are Dustachia and Anannian Elves? Where do they live? Wow! I'm really surprised you had similar ideas. I didn't think that idea would be able to flow with many campaigns.... Dustachia and Anannian Elves both exist in Western Davania. The Dustachia were supressed a lot during thier earlier years of forming, and when they became organized and claimed freedom, they developed an attitude of self-dependancy. They were organized, but didn't really have a need to be. All were experts at survival and didn't believe they needed help from other nations to survive. Instead of depending on eachother, they depended on themselves and grew a powerfull nation. In my campaign, about 80 years in the past...there was a great war. Thier nation was defeated and only hundreds survived to spread westwardly. There aren't a great amount of them left, but they still are strong as they hold thier attitudes from the founding elves of thier clan. Anannian Elves are to the most part, a contrast to the Dustachian. They live in forests in western Davania, and are extremely helpfull.....sometimes to the point of ignorance. They don't ever judge a book by it's cover. Just because the black robed figure is accompanied by 5 skeletons, doesn't mean that it's an evil necromancer ready to turn you into his next skeletal follower. They love assisting others and spreading thier knowledge to others. They don't Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 23:46:23 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #172 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 06a5396fd48080bb3c1b0959ba1bc97d expect anything back, but are very gracious if they do get something back. They were seen as ignorant by the agressors of the great war and were seen as little to no threat in the war and thus they survived with small amounts of casualties, and were able to assist the fleeing Dustachian elves in addition to other nations in peril. >interesting - maybe these are related to the Siswa Elven Monks of B7? What are the Siswa Elven Monks? If they are alike, maybe i could link the two together in some way.... >this fits my campaign too. I even think you can have separate Dwarven "package deals" for each of the Rockhome clans, etc. Good idea.....I'll consider that.... - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 22:16:26 EST From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills & Powers << As for Mystaran demi-humans -- I think we should come up with "package deals" for standard demi-humans from Mystara. Take Dwarves, for example -- clearly, the Dwarves of Rockhome are not Hill Dwarves, Mountain Dwarves, or any other subrace described in any existing AD&D supplement. Another item that I am thinking about for a future Web page.... >> This would be one way to intergrate Mystara to AD&D, and it really wouldn't be a big ordeal. If anything, it would allow D&D players an easier understanding of AD&D. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 22:19:50 EST From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D << I am a hard and fast supporter of OD&D over AD&D. I think when you mention wanting to have a elf thief... that is fine. But elves as a race are so much more powerful than humans and halflings... >> I'm not sure which system you're talking about...but how are they so much more powerfull??? <> For expansion, and roleplaying opportunities? << This is what leads to munchkinism IMO. Yes OD&D is rigid... a race is considered to be a class but at least all the classes are balanced in terms of game play. OD&D was simple and fluid... >> How is AD&D not balenced, simple, or fluid? <> I really don't see how picking a class takes away from roleplaying... What do you mean here? - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 22:30:39 EST From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D realism vs OD&D fantasy << because they make certain characters and races very typical. It is much easier to understand and accept that all Elves are such and such, dwaves are such and such. People do not stop reading these books just because they are not realistic... it is fantasy.>> I agree that it's easier to understand, but I think it's much more believeable to think that an Elf could actually have...more than one profession. But you are right, AD&D adds more realism to the game. I enjoy semi-realism more than complete fantasy. It's easier to picture many aspects of the game when there is more realism IMO. Don't get me wrong though, i'm not putting your game down....i just enjoy a different atmosphere than the one it seems you like. <> That doesn't make sense to me.... Why would dwarven fighters adventure ...if the race was so advanced and didn't need to go outside of thier clan? Also, how do you consider liveing a lifestlye of seclusion advanced? If anything, it would seem more close-minded. Why not experience anything outside of your mountain....or whatever home you have? Why be ignorant to the surrounding world? IMO a more advanced lifestyle would be to have knowledge of everything around you as well as everything in your society.... A society keeping to itself cannot grow or learn. It takes outside influences to spark these things. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 22:39:43 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth At 08:35 PM 3/15/98 EST, you wrote: >mortality (worst case scenario in "Mark of Amber"), and we also know of a former Alphatian Empire who is now a powerless scholar in exile. Powerless? If by this you are referring to Master Terari (formerly Tylion IV), 'powerless' is hardly the term I would use. He's still a 36th (or 20th, depending on rules system) magic-user, and the Minister of Magic in Karameikos, a thriving, vibrant young nation with great prospects and a wondrous future. He's introduced Hard-ball to Karameikos and the other western nations, and he runs the Karamekian School of Magecraft. If TSR and Dragon Magazine can be persuaded to add a Mystaran mage to the "Wizards Three" of Elminster, Mordenkainen and Dalamar, I think Terari is the man for the job. Hey, I've got an idea; let's bug Ed Greenwood and ask him to do this in one of his Wizards Three articles. What do you think? >This degree of social mobility goes very much against the grain of a typical "medieval" society -- but it is also one of the major features of Mystara. My own character, Alexius Dannelaran, started off as a Karamekian caravan guard on the gnome caravans, and in time became one of the high-ranking officers of the Order of the Griffon. Now he's about to begin his quest for Immortality on the path of the Epic Hero. Now that's what I call social mobility :-) GLen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 22:42:53 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth At 08:35 PM 3/15/98 EST, you wrote: >Of the D&D features listed above, the only one that I would strongly defend is the lack of a moral axis for alignment -- it made possible the entire plot of >_Wrath of the Immortals_, which I think has no real parallel in other AD&D game worlds. But the limitations on racial classes were a feature of D&D that Mystara seems to have resisted -- why else would each Gazetteer have sought to provide new options for character types? Someone recently posted a remark that they didn't like a game without dwarf clerics; Rockhome certainly has them. And while the Hin aren't thieves (and don't suggest they are; they have an attitude about that ever since that Bilbo guy ran off with those dwarves; now they all have a bad rep because of him), they are still pretty sneaky, and the Masters are a great variant that has no equivalent in Greyhawk or the Realms. Demihumans in Mystara don't have all the variety of the other worlds, but they do just fine. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 22:51:47 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D At 09:32 PM 3/15/98 EST, you wrote: >I agree. The concept of Fighters coming out of the womb with a long sword and backpack, and Elves are born with a sword in one hand, a bow in the other, and a quiver on thier backs.... Geez; I thought my son's birth was rough on his mother; I'm glad we're not elves! >AD&D allows you to not know everything about a character by merely viewing it. I know that is a bit of a broad statement, but it works in the majority of cases. Example: "Pointy Ears??? look out...he knows magic....." Either that or he's a very logical person... Glen Sorry, my keyboard burped... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 23:19:03 EST From: RLaRue Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth Kaviyd wrote: >>_Wrath of the Immortals_, which I think has no real parallel in other AD&D game worlds. But the limitations on racial classes were a feature of D&D that Mystara seems to have resisted -- why else would each Gazetteer have sought to provide new options for character types?<< Yes, but it was a limited attempt. Even with the GAZ series, D&D was still very limited in classes for non-human characters. For example, even if most elven priests stay home and never adventure, there is always a chance at least one will break the mold. D&D doesn't allow for this. Sorry, but IMO D&D blew it on racial classes. AD&D doesn't even get it totally right, but that's another story. Rick PS I'd love to see a GURPS Mystara. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 23:19:55 EST From: RLaRue Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth Kaviyd wrote: >>To begin with, trying to "out compete" Greyhawk or the Forgotten Realms would doom Mystara from the start. From what Bruce Heard said, we need to present Mystara not as an alternative of the same type to those game worlds but as a suppelementary world with vastly different characteristics. It should not be depicted in a way that competes directly with those worlds any more than Planescape, Dark Sun, or Gothic Earth were so depicted.<< Bruce is right, but I don't think that's possible. Mystara is a medieval fantasy setting with a few twists. Yes it has Immortals. Yes it has the Savage Coast. Yes it has Hollow World (which may not be something we should try to use as a selling point ;). Regardless, it shares a basic truth with FR and GH. It's a medieval fantasy world. To be honest, I'm surprised (happy, but surprised) TSR is bringing back GH. I suspect the truth behind it is TSR may sense the impending doom of FR, crushed under its own weight and wants to have another medieval fantasy world primed and ready when it goes. At least until they launch AD&D 3rd. Ed. with Dominia as the flagship setting... Rick PS Who wants to bet that if Alternity does well, we'll see an AD&D 3rd Ed. that looks alot like it? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 04:32:57 GMT From: cpb@gatewest.net (Chris Paul Billows) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D On Sun, 15 Mar 1998 12:33:08 -0000, you wrote: >Chris Paul Billows meandered fecklessly... >>I am a hard and fast supporter of OD&D over AD&D. >I am a hard and fast supporter of people using the rules that suit them. Agreed... I am just stating my bias. AD&D has as much right to exist as any set of rules... I just want to use them. >>I think when you >>mention wanting to have a elf thief... that is fine. >Right, and having a ssystem that support this is also fine. >>But elves as a >>race are so much more powerful than humans and halflings... why bother picking a different race? This is what leads to munchkinism IMO. >I assume you are referring to the AD&D elf race here. If not, ignore me... You are right... I am referring to the AD&D elf race. >I have been roleplaying for 16+ years. I don't say this to impress anyone or imply this makes me "right." I do say it to show I have a lot of experience. I started with AD&D, when it first came out. >In all my years as an AD&D player, I have _never_ seen the elf, as a race, grant any character a significant overall advantage due simply to them being an elf. I have never seen a campaign where the elf and its abilities overshadow the other, non-elf characters. I have never seen the abilities of an elf provide any advantage that can be termed "munchkin". When I look at the old 1st edition PHB... and you read about the benefits the elves have over the other races (immune to paralysis and sleep?) and infravision, speaking every other language... it seems they are the most gifted. >Why pick another race? Simple: roleplaying. If a person chooses to play a race based only on the abilities it grants, the system has not failed, the player has. Exceptions are possible, of course. In a game where one race has a three page list of advantages compared to the others, for example. The game Rifts tends towards this, if you need a reference point. But AD&D is not Rifts. I totally agree... I choose a race according to my roleplaying choices. But my earlier example I was trying to make is that elves are a more gifted race and would be chosen my a munchkin who wanted the character with the most abilities. At least with OD&D you were hobbled by large experience point requirements. >In every game I have ran with good, mature roleplayers, the party has been composed of a good mix of races and classes. In the game I am running now, for example, there are no elves; the only non-human is a dwarf. Great... but you mention mature roleplayers... not munchkins. In OD&D a group of munchkins would be likely to play only elves... but at a disadvantage since they go up levels so slowly. >>Yes >>OD&D is rigid... a race is considered to be a class but at least all the classes are balanced in terms of game play. >In my years of roleplaying AD&D I have yet to see one class or race prove to be unbalanced, at least not the classes from the official core rules. (Don't _even_ bring up Barbarians :) TThis reminds of the "High Level Wizards are Ubercharacters" arguement I see every once in a while. Yet I have played in numerous campaigns where the wizard class was just as balanced as the others, and did not overshadow the other characters with any regularity. II don't find OD&D to be any more balanced than AD&D, and have yet to see any proof to the contrary. An elf thief will be more powerful than a human theif... just based on their natural, racial abilities... don't you agree? Yet they both go up the next level the same, etc. This what I mean by unbalance... not much but it does exist. >>OD&D was simple and >>fluid... the differences between the characters was based on role-playing instead of class. >How is this any different from AD&D? I am guilty of simplifying the arguement. Of course AD&D allows roleplaying difference between characters. I retract my statement. >>TSR chose AD&D over OD&D because of its legal wranglings in the past... and because it is the system that you can complicate more with character kits, etc. You have more to sell as you have more to produce. It makes sense in terms of business but it gives way to munchkinism. >There is nothing about OD&D that precludes the additon of more rules. The vast majority of rule supplements could be converted to OD&D with a little work. If AD&D had never been invented, these supplements could have been written from the ground up for OD&D Very true. . >Extra rule books do not create munchkins, munchkins create themselves. Most gamers go through a powergamer/munchkin phase initially. After that they either wise up or quit the hobby. It is the rare gamer that remains a munchkin yet stays with the hobby. BBesides, I think starting out as a munchkin is generally a good thing. It gets it out of your system. I agree. I was a munchkin with OD&D and AD&D... but I found all the AD&D rule books and accessories to be too complicated. It got in the way. For me - I would rather add to a sparse system than try to trim down from a complicated one. __________________________________ | |\ | Chris Billows | | | Check out my Gaming Memoirs | | | www.gatewest.net/~cpb/gaming/ | | |_________________________________| | \_________________________________\| *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #172 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, March 16 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 173 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth Re: [MYSTARA] - SaveMystara! Re: [MYSTARA] - Vanya and the Hattians Re: [MYSTARA] - Other cultures Re: [MYSTARA] - MAGE in Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara [MYSTARA] - The NEW Mystara Re: Dimensions and Planes (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth) Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth Re: [MYSTARA] - SaveMystara! Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Rising [MYSTARA] - dervishes in ylaruam ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 23:48:36 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth In a message dated 98-03-15 22:59:41 EST, borealis@cois.on.ca writes: >Hey, I've got an idea; let's bug Ed Greenwood and ask him to do this in one oof his Wizards Three articles. What do you think? I love the idea -- especially if Terari or whoever the Mystaran representative is leaks the Mystaran "heresy" that I cited earlier. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 23:48:35 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth In a message dated 98-03-15 22:59:41 EST, borealis@cois.on.ca writes: >Powerless? If by this you are referring to Master Terari (formerly Tylion IIV), 'powerless' is hardly the term I would use. Okay, so he is a long way from being helpless -- but he has fallen a long way from the days when he was emperor. Terari's "powerlessness" is strictly relative to his former status. Bargle and Thar would be better examples of formerly influential individuals who have become total outcasts. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 23:07:03 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth At 10:39 PM 3/15/98 -0500, you wrote: >Powerless? If by this you are referring to Master Terari (formerly Tylion IV), 'powerless' is hardly the term I would use. He's still a 36th (or 20th, depending on rules system) magic-user, and the Minister of Magic in Karameikos, a thriving, vibrant young nation with great prospects and a wondrous future. He's introduced Hard-ball to Karameikos and the other western nations, and he runs the Karamekian School of Magecraft. If TSR and Dragon Magazine can be persuaded to add a Mystaran mage to the "Wizards Three" of Elminster, Mordenkainen and Dalamar, I think Terari is the man for the job. >Hey, I've got an idea; let's bug Ed Greenwood and ask him to do this in one of his Wizards Three articles. What do you think? Well, I for one like this idea. I think its important to have a voices of a setting in as many places as possible be it a domain in Ravenloft, a few individuals in Planescape or having a character interact with a more famous one in a Dragon article. Terari is the perfect choice for this. I've enjoyed those articles and Terari is my favorite high level mage in Mystara. I believe I will 'bug' Ed about it tonight. _____________________________________ This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 01:20:14 EST From: Namlespoet Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth Hi everybody. I have been lurking on the list for a few months now, trying to learn about "this cool new setting I found". I have been gaming, off and on, for 15 years and have played D&D, AD&D, Gurps, Fantasy Hero, Earthdawn, Role Master and a few others. A couple of months back I picked up G:KOM. Imagine my surprise, "Hey this is the known world from D&D." So I started a quest to rediscover the first setting I ever played in. Some of the things I learned: D&D is not only for beginners (I switched when AD&D came out) The Known World, from the old adventures, is in Mystara (surpised another player in my group also. All those great stories in Dragon by Bruce on the Princess Ark are set in Mystara!!! Mystara is out of print (and very hard to get) the MML I feel that Mystara was TSR's greatest secret. I have a closet full of gaming stuff and did not have one single book dealing with Mystara, because I thought it was a basic system world. So now I am on the hunt, trying to find books that have now been printed in years. I have just found a few, but am still looking. My group just started playing in Mystara ( Karameikos) with the Hall of Heros adventure (minus cd). I just thought I would share some of the ignorance we may encounter as we spread the word. Namlespoet *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 01:41:03 EST From: Namlespoet Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth In a message dated 98-03-15 23:02:42 EST, you write: << and the Masters are a great variant that has no equivalent in Greyhawk or the Realms >> What, who, are the Masters? I haven't been able to find the Five Shires. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 11:18:00 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - SaveMystara! On Fri, 13 Mar 1998, Glen Sprigg wrote: >At 03:14 PM 3/13/98 -0500, you wrote: >>Wow. I hardly knew what I was getting into! I have compiled 32 names and it is only the 2nd day...! >>I believe we have a chance. The forces of Mystara are uniting! The hordes are slavering! The Empire of Thyatis is...marching! >Hey, I'm not Thyatian, I'm Karamekian! Get it right, you imperialist swine! We signed neutrality pacts, remember? We're independent from you! We don't march to your tune any more, even if you are ten times bigger and meaner than us. We're nice people, and you can't hurt us. We've got friends now; we've got the Hin on our side. So watch it. Yeah right... Like we are going to march along with some barbarians who can't even cast spells. Glantri needs no-one! ****************************************** Aleksei Andrievski k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi aka Solmyr, the Archmage of the Azure Star Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 11:34:53 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Vanya and the Hattians On Sat, 14 Mar 1998, DM wrote: >I had a strange thought last night about Vanya and the Storm Soldiers. You see, Vanya is not necessarily a female name. In Russian, Vania is both male and female name (or at least it's a male one, i'm sure -Aleksei?), so In Russian, Vanya is a shortened version of Ivan, which is a male only name. I'm not sure about other Slavic languages. >This is how things went IMHO. Reasonable? Looks reasonable to me. I think I'll use that IMC. ****************************************** Aleksei Andrievski k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi aka Solmyr, the Archmage of the Azure Star Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 11:49:26 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Other cultures On Sat, 14 Mar 1998, Matthew Levy wrote: >the Druze are an offshoot of Islam, their religion is substantially different in many ways. They live in the mountains of Lebanon and are generally pretty militantly independent, IIRC. One rumor is that they are the religious descendents of the medieval assassins' cult headed by the Old Man of the Mountain. btw, one thing i've been toying with is making Barimoor into such a figure, a leader of a group of secret alasiyan assassins who revere him as a demigod. let me know what you think, You might want to take a look at an article on holy slayers of Al-Kalim, on my website. ****************************************** Aleksei Andrievski k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi aka Solmyr, the Archmage of the Azure Star Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 12:17:11 +0200 (EET) From: Anias Pasi Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MAGE in Glantri Ray wrote: >That is such a cool idea! I imagine it wouldn't be all that difficult to set up the Secret Crafts at the Great School of Magic like the different Traditions. And hey, depending on when you set it, Alphatia could be an antagonist on the scale of the Technocracy. They wouldn't be technological, but many of the themes of the little guys versus the gigantic "empire/conspiracy" could be carried over quite easily. I'd really like to see your material if its convenient. Thank You. I liked the idea myself too, and so far my players seem to have really enjoyed themselves. I'll explain the basic consepts, but the rest will still have to wait a while... Herr Gruber, a scolar in Glantri City, speaks to the young pupils of his... 'Long Long time ago our realm was ruled by a race of Technomancers, now known to us few as the Blackmoor Civilization. They were the only ones who could shape the reality then, for they had set the Ruling Paradigms of that time. And woe, their power was great, for even the great spirits of Umbra, known for the foreigners now as immortals, could not influence their world. But they felled down, and woe they felled hard. For their Hubris was eventually so great, that it destroyed the word as it was. There were earthquages that destroyed their cities, and there was the Great Rain of Fire that burned their fields and villages. And for a long time there was no magik save the magic of the Dragons. And far away, behind the deepest Umbrae was the realm of Alphatia. But the realm was divided into two. The Magikal Flaems and the Airmages who later founded the Alphatia You know of fought ower the Paradigms to be set in their world. For the Air-mages wanted a realm of Pattern, full with Magical formulae, spells and incantations, while the Flaem wanted a world of free magik, where everything was possible, and where eweryone would awake. And eventually their war destroyed their world, but with even more force than was free in our world. And the destruction made the world bare, and unsuitable to the living. And there were no magik save the magic of the destruction and enthropy. The Alphatian airmages left their world in haste. For their ruler, who was the spirit Alphatia, knew of our world. And he took his followers here to establish the realm now know as Alphatia. Free of opposition, save the dragons and some barbarian shamans, they started to shape the paragdims. The flaem were slower to come, for they had no guides. They had abandoned the spirits who had fought alongside them, for these were much to blame for the part the flaem had in the destruction of their world. Hence the 'Immortals' are still lawless in Glantri. As soon as the Flaem game to Mystara, they started to shape a realm of their own. The highlands of glantri were found to support their paradigms quite well, and they soon rooted down, unaware first of their Alphatian cousins...' Ans so foth. Basicly the differences into WoD is that the Hermetics (Alphatians) are the ruling Mages, not the Technogracy (Some strange individuals in Aalban...). In the 2000 year reign of the Empire they have set the way magic works everywhere in Mystara, except for Glantri, which still survives for some reason... The Glantrian magiks hassome difficulties outside Glantri though... ~The effect of nucleus: gives magik to glantrians. Greates rad (quintessence) to power their effect. The quintessence is stored via avatar, and is needed to use any powerfull (vulgar) magik outside glantri. The brotherhood of rad members can store more rad thru the use of the Prime-sphere, which is known only to them, not to anyone else. The secrets grafts of mages are mostly done without. The whole system of magik is the great secret craft of Glantrian magic. Instead, the spheres of magik takes the place of the secret crafts. The Prime is only known to those who belong to the rad brotherhood, and Time is most uncommon (there are few cronomancers in Glantri, the cost to learn Time is doubled). ~Most outside mages dont know about magik. They are too much victims of the Alphatian Paradigm. Only the most powerfull ones understand. The Timeline We are now in Year 1002. There will not be WoTI. There will come a smaller war with Alphatia later though. The Principalities. - -Alhabra: Spanish-tylish Life (shapechanges) mages? Elves, humans and half-elves. Distrusted by others, mostly for no reason really. - -New Avegroine: Werewolves and Correspondence. Etienne is the most powerfull mage around, but not a real Immortal. Allmost as powerfull though, and the Immortals are, as said only Great spirits, so... Etienne seems a bit senile though, but thats the problem of co-habiting many places... - -Aalban: Forces-Life. Tecnomancers and Dragonhunters (able to use dragons as Tass. Jaggar is more a Dragonhunter, Force-Life mage, but some others are more technomancers, trying to understand some old Blackmoorian artifacts or generating new fantastic devices. - -Blackhill: Force (Air) with Mind often secondary. The evil ones in the campaing at the moment. Some of them are spyes. Some just powerlusty and evil. Volospin belongs to the latter. - -Boldavia. Mind and vampires. Morphail is the oldest ruler araund, a vampire AND a Mage, and a spawn of Alphaks, even if unvilling. Not nearly as evil person as Volospin though... - -Ellerovyn: Elves. are they really MAGES? Mishievous purebloods. Life (healing) mages, tebding this strange Tass-producing Tree (tass is really uncommon, due to the missing Prime-sphere. I wouldnt trust them. - -Flaems. The Fire mages (Forces). They believe that all the avatars came here with them. (except for those that came with alphatians). They are a dwindling race. The problem of theirs is, that they dont like others to carry their ancestors (avatars), but they dont have enoug children to take the avatars back. Someday though... Ofcource Klantyreans and Avegroineans know that they were mages before they came to Mystara - -Gaurence: Matter. Money. Greedy machiavellians. Innocenti is the same paranoid hippocrit. Their power bases into their vast 'mines'. - -Klantyre: Enthropy. Scottish barbarians and sheepherders. came to here thru Etiennes great portal, which they 'happen' to find. Brennart is rumored sick and old and the rest are making themselves ready to grab the power. - -Krondahar: Ethengarian Spiritmages... Werevolves. - -Some came from Etiennes gate. Some of these like it here, some would want to go back. Mostly good or neutral. - -Some came from Alphatia, mostly evil. - -Then there is this Albino werevolf-mage that wants to have a principality of his own. Vampires. - -Morphail and his descendants have limited ability to magic, and morphail to magik. - -Vampires were created by the enthropic immortals. The 'clan' tells who created the ancestral. Thanatos made killing monsters, Alphaks sceming fiends, Nyx Darknessloving nobles and so forth... And so on. I-ll try to type everything I have made clean someday, and I'll shear it then. >Be sure to keep us informed on how it develops! I will... Pasi - -- X Pasi Anias X p.03 - 2533536 X \\|// X X Sammonkatu 28 A 18 X a122286@proffa X (o o) X X 33540 Tampere X .cc.tut.fi X o000--(_)--000o X *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 12:18:37 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 13:19:16 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #173 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 5f382fd6250e42329e071f711f5c0cea Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara On Fri, 13 Mar 1998, Stephen Dolan wrote: >Ok, Here is a question that has been bothering me......What happened to Rad after he blew up the Device. Was he slaped on the the wrist? Was he punnished to suffer for eternity? Was he striped of his powers? If I was one of the other immortals i might have been just a little bit upset if one amoung us blew up a large country. He was taken by the Old Ones and 're-educated', so to speak. He was then put back on Mystara where he is supposed to gain some humane characteristics (see Mark of Amber). ****************************************** Aleksei Andrievski k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi aka Solmyr, the Archmage of the Azure Star Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 04:53:31 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: [MYSTARA] - The NEW Mystara Well, I've read a few desires on the list of what people would like to see if Mystara had a new lease on life concerning era. I thought I'd list what I personally would like. Might not be profitable but it's what I think would be great to have. 1) I'd like the new Mystara to be post-WotI. Either 1015 or later. Just because I like to move forward in each release. 2) I'd like to see the whole continent of Brun be the focus of the new Mystara. Not spot products of the Known World and the Savage Coast but all of it with the parts we haven't seen yet. All the other settings release based on continents (except Dark Sun) and I like to see that used for Mystara. 3) I'd like for them to say exactly how Mystara connects to the other settings either as a separate dimension, a crystal sphere or what ever as long as its revealed. 4) I'd like to see the re-release in book form instead of box. Though it will not include a map they could follow Ravenloft's Domains of Dread and release one later separately. A small map on each nation as it's discussed would do for me. 5) Include special classes and kits for Mystara. I like the settings to be different in more ways that lay of the land and history. Like someone said earlier, the rules should be formed around Mystara not Mystara around the rules. It might be possible to do myself but I'm not a designer and so have very little reference. 6) Reach out to both D&D and AD&D players with suggestion of how to incorporate any new material into both systems. I'd like to see it mainly for Mystara without too much specific rule material except where needed. 7) Bring back the player's and dungeon master sections. Might be best to go with a box in this case but I personally would buy both books. _____________________________________ This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 08:04:44 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: Dimensions and Planes (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth) At 08:35 PM 3/15/98 EST, you wrote: >One concept that would be key to a revival of Mystara would be to revive the concept of "dimensions" as described in _Wrath of the Immortals_. At present, the inhabitants of Sigil in the Planescape setting believe that they are the ones most knowledgeable about the "dark" of the multiverse. In fact, all they know about is their own dimension -- which, because it contains the worlds of the Greyhawk, Dragonlance, Forgotten Realms, Spelljammer, and Planescape settings, can be fairly considered as containing 90+% of the AD&D gaming universe. I think the term "reality" might be more appropriate for what you describe, rather than dimension. Dimensions in Mystara fall more to the real world mathematical definition which, to me, has always been more interesting if a bit complicated. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 08:07:31 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth At 08:35 PM 3/15/98 EST, you wrote: >In a message dated 98-03-15 12:09:52 EST, RLaRue@aol.com writes: >>To out compete FR and GH, Mystara needs to be rebuilt from the ground up so iiit's consistent, logical and immune to power gamers. All the parts are tthere; >>the long history, the detailed cultural information and the chance for adventure that make Mystara (potentially) great, but due to a lack of unified vision throughout its production history, it seems to fall short. >To begin with, trying to "out compete" Greyhawk or the Forgotten Realms would doom Mystara from the start. From what Bruce Heard said, we need to present Mystara not as an alternative of the same type to those game worlds but as a suppelementary world with vastly different characteristics. It should not be depicted in a way that competes directly with those worlds any more than Planescape, Dark Sun, or Gothic Earth were so depicted. But one tip we definitely should pick up from these worlds is that we should warp the AD&D rules to depict the important characteristics of Mystara -- not warp Mystara to conform to the standard AD&D rules as was done before. Precisely so. Much of what makes Mystara unique was ironed out of the setting with the AD&D conversion. However, I think too we should make efforts to define what unique elements are in the original, Cyclopedia, Gazetteer, and AD&D versions of Mystara. As has been said before, the rules are not really all that important...the setting is. But what elements have been there throughout Mystara's life? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 08:57:20 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth At 10:39 PM 3/15/98 -0500, you wrote: >At 08:35 PM 3/15/98 EST, you wrote: >>mortality (worst case scenario in "Mark of Amber"), and we also know of a former Alphatian Empire who is now a powerless scholar in exile. >Powerless? If by this you are referring to Master Terari (formerly Tylion IV), 'powerless' is hardly the term I would use. He's still a 36th (or 20th, depending on rules system) magic-user, and the Minister of Magic in Karameikos, a thriving, vibrant young nation with great prospects and a wondrous future. He's introduced Hard-ball to Karameikos and the other western nations, and he runs the Karamekian School of Magecraft. If TSR and Dragon Magazine can be persuaded to add a Mystaran mage to the "Wizards Three" of Elminster, Mordenkainen and Dalamar, I think Terari is the man for the job. >Hey, I've got an idea; let's bug Ed Greenwood and ask him to do this in one of his Wizards Three articles. What do you think? I think this is a good idea. While Myrletendal is certainly the oldest mage (she is over 300) I believe she really has no interest in such things. Etienne of Amber would be another option. I believe Haldemar is too young, although he is certainly a power to be contended with. There are so many mages in Alphatia who could qualify. In fact I have had some thought on this myself. I have been working on something related to my work on Alphatia...but it is not even nearly completed yet. It went with a few assumptions... 1) Every world has the "Gandalf" or "Merlin" or "Dalben" or "Obi Wan" who guides the young epic hero in his travels. 2) Every world has the special sword, sometimes crafted by that master mage/mentor, sometimes otherworldly in origin. 3) The hero generally fights for the truths of some lost society. He seeks to bring back the faith and morality of an earlier age. 4) There has got to be a dragon! Though the dragon is often not central to the conclusion. The dragon is often a major part of the hero's quest. These are the elements of high fantasy. They are present in most modern works and have been present in stories as far back as medieval tales. James Campbell does an excellent job of describing the hero's journey and if you can get ahold of his writings or the interviews that have been taped then I strongly suggest it. In any case, I have been thinking on this lately and how Mystara seems to lack any real strong element linking it to the hero's journey. However the setting is extremely conducive to it. So why not? But then wait...Perhaps I am seeing it all wrong. There are many mages who could qualify for the first assumption. There are many swords and dragons and lost kingdoms. The formula for the epic hero could spring from each one. A young hero discovers secrets that were lost with the ancient Nithian Kingdom...the mage could be Arabian or Egyptian in flavor... An energy blade from Blackmoor could fall into the hands of a young hero and be seen as a unique weapon. The mage could be someone interested in ancient Blackmoor or a budding scientist or a scientist "left over" from Blackmoor... These are just two examples of AC1000 age epic hero possibilities. Now one could ask "Why go with this paradigm at all? Why assume Mystara must have a mage/mentor and a young epic hero?" Well, the epic hero is already a part of Mystara. Here are journeys that can lead to Immortality... Now, I have rambled on quite a bit but I hope I have said some things that will be of interest. I am going to finally tell you the true "point" of all this disjointed rambling: I think we can take the paradigm to a different place. What if AC1000 represents a combat of sorts. A kind of spiritual/philosophical war of mage/mentors. Those in the know want to be the mentor and train up the hero. The mage's journey is complete after WotI. It is up to the DM just who won. To be more exact it is up to party behavior. I see this competition as a sort of Machiavellian slug fest with politicking mages vying for the all important position. Wily cunning sorcerers moving plots here and there to get their heroes positioned for the final battle. Then, in the wake of Alphatia's sinking, the true battle begins. Various heroes are sent by their mentors against each other to decide the fate of Mystara. The hero who wins brings back the truths of Blackmoor, Nithia, Alphatia, or one of the many other dead civilizations. Totally confused yet? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 09:34:07 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth At 01:41 AM 3/16/98 EST, you wrote: >In a message dated 98-03-15 23:02:42 EST, you write: ><< and the Masters are a great variant that hhas no equivalent in Greyhawk or the Realms >> What, who, are the Masters? I haven't been able to find the Five Shires. The Masters are halflings who choose to follow the ways of nature, becoming druid-like priests. They can advance to 36th level and attain Immortality, and their spell list is quite interesting. They only appear in the Shires. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 09:38:02 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - SaveMystara! At 11:18 AM 3/16/98 +0200, you wrote: >>Hey, I'm not Thyatian, I'm Karamekian! Get it right, you imperialist swine! We signed neutrality pacts, remember? We're independent from you! We don't march to your tune any more, even if you are ten times bigger and meaner than us. We're nice people, and you can't hurt us. We've got friends now; we've got the Hin on our side. So watch it. >Yeah right... Like we are going to march along with some barbarians who can't even cast spells. Glantri needs no-one! Oh, sure. You've already got a vampire, a lich, a night dragon, and a kobold. Yeah, you've really got it made. One of these days we may have to clean out the infestation up there. Besides, you mages can't last that long in a fight. What happens when you run out of spells and wands, hmm? Alexius Dannelaran Knight of the Griffon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 11:06:39 EST From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Rising In a message dated 98-03-15 11:40:05 EST, Jeff writes: >Dragons. Gamers love hunting dragons. Several settings are overflowing with dragons. It should be emphasized that Mystaran dragons are not your everyday, >run of the mill dragons. Ok, but why are they different? How are they different? I would not suggest putting negatives on the message board (ie; Mystara does NOT have any metallic dragons except gold). Rather explain what makes the dragons we do have different. Heck, the whole alignment system of dragons is different. One can actually meet a good red dragon. Obviously draconic nature still tends toward reds being bad and golds being helpful to humans. But the possibilities remain. Somebody please write to and tell how dragons in Mystara are unique!>> Well first off, I would say that Mystaran dragons are more low keyed. You do not constantly run into them as you do on Krynn. You do not see them actively siding in a cause of humans such as Krynn. That is not to say the Mystaran dragons are not players. IMO they are. They are more clever and reserved. They tend to act behind the scenes. "Sir Anton" aka Raknar of Glantri comes to mind. IMO Mystaran dragons should be as detailed and well played as any PC or major NPC. Also, dragons are still a thing of almost mythical proportions. Travellers catch quick glimpses of dragons soaring in the distance. Awhile back, someone brought up Ed Greenwood's articles for Dragon on dragons. The two I have seen are pretty visual. One even openly owns a shipping company. Now the Red Dragon of a few issues ago, would fit well into Mystara. Use of arcane magic to use wands on his wings. Fearsome reputation. Yet a kind of soft side for folks in bad situations. I kind of like this old Red. >Fantasy. Gamers play xD&D for its fantasy aspect. Let us put fantasy back into >the setting. Legends, lore, and the images of armoured knights and wizened wizards should come to mind. And let us get back to basics. Let us get rid of >democracies and return to kings, queens, tyrants, and conquerors. Secret orders, cults, and sects are a must. Rather than get rid of the republics and whatnot, tell of the kingdoms of Norwold, Vestland, and Karameikos that are indeed more like the favored knights vs dragons settings; and then also include the Viking, Italian, French, Byzantine influenced Mystaran cultures. >> Well, I just feel that nations with monarchies offer an added dimension to a game. No getting bogged down in the burocracy. Republics remind me too much of "more civilised" nations. They also take away from a goal of a PC to become a noble. Now Alphatia has the Grand Council and Thyatis has the Senate. But who really runs the two Empires? The Imperial Court. I prefer to have a group of PCs embarking on a quest due to the will and blessing of the Emeror or King, instead of for the Council. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 13:18:49 EST From: MAESTRO PI Subject: [MYSTARA] - dervishes in ylaruam i am currently running a campaign based in ylaruam, in the od&d rules. i have a player that runs a dervish (desert druid, gaz. 2), which has been modified into a mystic as was mentioned. he has been complaining about the xp requirements being too high, so i was wondering if anyone on had worked it out before, and to compare notes. i took away the thieving skills, and added clerical ability to the mystic class. it starts with 2750 to reach 2nd level, 5500 for third....maxing out at +275000 between levels. also, is there anyone that has a spare pc2 (top ballista), and is willing to give it up? MAESTRO pi @ aol.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #173 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 19:44:45 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #174 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 7beb205a0e873615ff183d9d1c2c8b0b mystara-digest Monday, March 16 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 174 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Rising Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Re: [MYSTARA] - threads and stuff Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth [MYSTARA] - Nyx's Realm [was Re: threads and stuff] [MYSTARA] - Area of Concern Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystarans Unite Re: [MYSTARA] - The NEW Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Area of Concern Re: [MYSTARA] - Area of Concern Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystarans Unite Re: [MYSTARA] - Area of Concern Re: [MYSTARA] - Area of Concern Re: [MYSTARA] - The NEW Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - READ THIS -- Tact and Such Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystarans Unite ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 12:33:02 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Rising At 11:06 AM 3/16/98 EST, you wrote: >IMO Mystaran dragons should be as detailed and well played as any PC or major NPC. Also, dragons are still a thing of almost mythical proportions. Any ideas of the goals of the dragons? Synn has been the only one I remember that has decided to take a active role in one of the nations. Does that suggest dragons have become cornered and forced to assume a false role to further their personal goals? >Well, I just feel that nations with monarchies offer an added dimension to a game. No getting bogged down in the burocracy. Republics remind me too much of >"more civilised" nations. They also take away from a goal of a PC to become a noble. I think republics can allow the characters to be involved in politics and rule just as easily as kingdoms. Of course, I've always considered such times as an end to an adventuring career. _____________________________________ This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 12:13:31 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth At 08:57 AM 3/16/98 -0500, you wrote: >>Hey, I've got an idea; let's bug Ed Greenwood and ask him to do this in one of his Wizards Three articles. What do you think? >I think this is a good idea. While Myrletendal is certainly the oldest mage (she is over 300) I believe she really has no interest in such things. EEtienne of Amber would be another option. I think Terari is the best choice since the articles deal with swapping spells and he has a position of a school master. Etienne is still a unknown to me in terms of alignment and that would make Ed choose which to protray which might not please anyone. >I believe Haldemar is too young, although he is certainly a power to be contended with. He is also the creation of Bruce and I'd like to see him handle Haldemar (Have you thought about doing an article or two with the Princess Ark's crew, Bruce? Anyone want to urge Bruce to do a novel with the crew (in his spare time of course)?) >1) Every world has the "Gandalf" or "Merlin" or "Dalben" or "Obi Wan" who guides the young epic hero in his travels. Not always a mage though. A cleric could fill this position pretty easily also. >2) Every world has the special sword, sometimes crafted by that master mage/mentor, sometimes otherworldly in origin. That is meant to fight some a specific evil. >3) The hero generally fights for the truths of some lost society. He seeks to bring back the faith and morality of an earlier age. That could be exactly the opposite on Mystara. Faith and morality could be argued to be stronger in the here and now. >4) There has got to be a dragon! Though the dragon is often not central to the conclusion. The dragon is often a major part of the hero's quest. I think that's true but the dragon can be symbolic. Not neccessarily the actual beast. >Totally confused yet? Pretty much. _____________________________________ This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 14:24:41 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth At 12:13 PM 3/16/98 -0600, you wrote: >At 08:57 AM 3/16/98 -0500, you wrote: >>>Hey, I've got an idea; let's bug Ed Greenwood and ask him to do this in one of his Wizards Three articles. What do you think? II think Terari is the best choice since the articles deal with swapping spells and he has a position of a school master. Etienne is still a unknown to me in terms of alignment and that would make Ed choose which to protray which might not please anyone. I think you are right...I took my own comments out of context. As far as Ed Greenwood and his "Wizards Three" articles I think Terari is the best choice. I was thinking too far ahead... >>I believe Haldemar is too young, although he is certainly a power to be contended with. >He is also the creation of Bruce and I'd like to see him handle Haldemar (Have you thought about doing an article or two with the Princess Ark's crew, Bruce? Anyone want to urge Bruce to do a novel with the crew (in his spare time of course)?) Wow! What a thought! I love it! >>1) Every world has the "Gandalf" or "Merlin" or "Dalben" or "Obi Wan" who guides the young epic hero in his travels. >Not always a mage though. A cleric could fill this position pretty easily also. Well, I was referring more to the literary figure of the mentor. I don't know of any non-mage examples. I gave three mage examples. The main point though is that it is a mystical elder figure who guides the young hero. So to mix it up in Mystara, the figure could be a priest, and/or a woman, and/or a race other than human... >>2) Every world has the special sword, sometimes crafted by that master mage/mentor, sometimes otherworldly in origin. >That is meant to fight some a specific evil. Yes, generally it is created to fight some specific evil as in the case of Dyrnwyn from the Prydain Cycle. But just as often it is merely a unique magical sword that is used to fight evil as in the case of Excalibur. >>3) The hero generally fights for the truths of some lost society. He seeks to bring back the faith and morality of an earlier age. >That could be exactly the opposite on Mystara. Faith and morality could be argued to be stronger in the here and now. I am not referring to the reality of faith and morality. Remember that the ideals of the ancient kingdom being fought for may be a reality that never existed. For instance, a young paladin may fight for truth and justice such as was seen in Blackmoor. Well, one could argue that in the time of King Uther these things existed...but who knows about techno-Blackmoor? It is the ideals that are important. >>4) There has got to be a dragon! Though the dragon is often not central to the conclusion. The dragon is often a major part of the hero's quest. >I think that's true but the dragon can be symbolic. Not neccessarily the actual beast. Yes! Just like in Star Wars. The rancor can be seen as the dragon in that setting. So what is Mystara's great dragon that must be faced by the epic hero? Another point: The dragon, though dangerous to the hero, need not be fought. >>Totally confused yet? >Pretty much. Any clearer? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 14:48:04 EST From: CRlPTONITE Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D << But elves as a race are so much more powerful than humans and halflings... why bother picking a different race? >> I don't agree. Each race has bonuses along with penalties to prevent this. In AD&D an elf gets a +1 to the dexterity score and a -1 to the constitution score to offset the bonus. Their largest bonus I believe is the fact that they can live much longer than humans. This is offset by the lower maximum level demihumans can achieve. - --- -- --Criptonite *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 19:57:10 +0000 From: Elisabeth and Michael Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - threads and stuff At 15:07 15/03/98 GMT, you wrote: >On Fri, 13 Mar 1998 08:30:22 -0500 (EST), you wrote: > >>I couldn't agree more. I don't need tables for everything and find them more a nuisance than something useful. Especially with the Rules Cyclopedia, OD&D is a heckuva lot cheaper to start out on also. >AND this is why AD&D wins over D&D... It is simple and unfortunate economics. A >simple and elegant gaming system is lost because TSR can make more money off selling more rules... sorta like the battle between Beta and VHS or UNIX and Windows95... marketing and profit is what makes it in the marketplace. It's true that AD&D almost force you to but new rules but D&D produced the gazaters and the new player races (Wood creatures, sea creatures and the were beasties. An undead one would have been nice) By producing decent campaign material on a regular basis this can match the bombardment of AD&D rules >__________________________________ >| |\ >| Chris Billows | | >| Check out my Gaming Memoirs | | >| www.gatewest.net/~cpb/gaming/ | | >|_________________________________| | >\_________________________________\| >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 20:03:28 +0000 From: Elisabeth and Michael Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth At 11:56 15/03/98 EST, you wrote: >Greetings! >>>In most AD&D worlds, the campaign suffers if player characters become too ppowerful. Only the Birthright world readily supports player characters who are ruling nobles -- but that world, from the way I saw it promoted at Origins >a few years ago, seems meant to appeal to wargamers, not to mature roleplayers.<< >I'm sorry you got this impression from Birthright. That was one of it's biggest downfalls. It mistakenly got labeled as a "wargame". It has war game >elements, but it is by far the most mature setting made by TSR. As far it not >being for "mature roleplayers", that's just silly. >The problem I see with promoting Mystara as the setting of Immortals is it will grab the attention of munchkin power gamers. I can hear the cries of "I want to be an Immortal! I want to be an Immortal!" now. If you think FR and DS are for powergamers, just wait. >That Mystara will have trouble competing with FR and GH is a valid point. The >attempt to bring Mystara into 2nd Ed. was badly done and there is a definite stigma attached to the world as one for beginners. This is due in part to how >it was presented in 2nd Ed. and the idea that D&D is simplistic in comparison to AD&D. I don't know D&D well enough to argue the differences, but the lack of a moral axis for alignment, the limitation of racial classes and a preoccupation with "a class for everything, and everything in its class" as opposed to a core of classes with kits added for variety, tends to support this theory. At least to the casual observer. It may not be true, but that doesn't stop people from thinking that and it may be too late to change it, regardless of the rules used. >To make matters worse, the Known world can seem like a poorly organized, hodge-podge of cultures placed with little or no fore thought or logic. The fact that they are well developed (for the most part) and interesting can easily be missed. I've seen Mystara dismissed too many times by the saying "Isn't that the world that has the Vikings not far from the Arabs and Mongols?" >IMHO, the Immortals are both the most interesting and annoying aspect of Mystara. The concept is intriguing as long as the "I can become an Immortal too, if I eat my vegetables!" is ignored. On the other hand, the hap-hazard way the Immortals screw with the world seems like a poorly veiled excuse for why some designers in the past were able to defy logic and "canon" to make what ever they wanted. Hollow World springs to mind. >To out compete FR and GH, Mystara needs to be rebuilt from the ground up so it's consistent, logical and immune to power gamers. All the parts are there; the long history, the detailed cultural information and the chance for adventure that make Mystara (potentially) great, but due to a lack of unified vision throughout its production history, it seems to fall short. >Flame me if you like, but if we all put are egos aside, we are left with the truth. Mystara failed for many reasons, not all of which are "TSR is stupid!" >If many of the reasons aren't addressed, then won't it just fail again? "We" may not see them as problems, but most people did and that is a problem. >Rick >PS My vision of Mystara is obviously different from many people's, but that doesn't make anyone else's Mystara stupid or not "Mystara". That's part of why I'd like not to see a revived Mystara. As it stands, the world is mine to >do as I please without anyone (even TSR) having a say in what I do with it. Sure I could always ignore new products, but that would be annoying. Remember >how happy you all were when Mystara returned in AD&D 2nd Ed. form... Nothing was more evident then the loss of direction for Mystara then the release of products after the Rules Cyclopedia. Where a new setting was created with little reference to the rest of the Known world >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 14:23:08 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth At 02:24 PM 3/16/98 -0500, you wrote: >Wow! What a thought! I love it! Well, I guess my one good thought a month is completed. Expect nothing but trash from now till April ;> >Yes, generally it is created to fight some specific evil as in the case of Dyrnwyn from the Prydain Cycle. But just as often it is merely a unique magical sword that is used to fight evil as in the case of Excalibur. I think most magical swords should have a cetain goal in mind at their creation. I've always viewed Excalibur as a symbol of the right to rule. One thing I think would be good is to have a name of all magical items that adds to their history. It just sounds better to speak of Thorne, welder of Dragonsbane than Thorne, welder of a sword +2. I find it hard to believe such weapons were produced with out a use in mind. >I am not referring to the reality of faith and morality. Remember that the ideals of the ancient kingdom being fought for may be a reality that never existed. Ah, much clearer. Although, I can't imagine a ancient land that has ever been presented as such (Nithia maybe before its fall into evil). Alphatia is the closest land we see of having been destroyed in its glory. Just Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 19:44:45 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #174 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 7beb205a0e873615ff183d9d1c2c8b0b looking over the nations of the Hollow World, there's not any that seem greater than any other. >Yes! Just like in Star Wars. The rancor can be seen as the dragon in that setting. So what is Mystara's great dragon that must be faced by the epic hero? Well, actually, I think the Immortals are the greatest threat to the mortals of Mystara. Their interferrence in perserving ancient nations may have made those nations unable to overcome the current hardships they were in at the time. There's no telling what the future held for them but the removal of the very ones that represented the best of that nation made it impossible for them to recover. Rad's influence in Glantri could possible be one reason that evil had found a foot hold in that nation. Vanya taking direct action against the rule of Thyatis had help cause much of the unrest there not to mention what her influence is doing in the Heldennic Freeholds. An epic hero opposing the continual interference of the Immortals in Mystara's daily affairs would definitely be a good example of a hero facing such a formable beast. >Any clearer? Not sure though I do think I took your ideas in a different direction than you first mentioned. _____________________________________ This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 14:52:45 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: [MYSTARA] - Nyx's Realm [was Re: threads and stuff] At 07:57 PM 3/16/98 +0000, you wrote: >It's true that AD&D almost force you to but new rules but D&D produced the gazaters and the >new player races (Wood creatures, sea creatures and the were beasties. An undead one would have been nice) >By producing decent campaign material on a regular basis this can match the bombardment of AD&D rules Undead player races? Now, I think it would be rather interesting to see a nation devoted to Nyx and her ideas. I'm not positive but I believe Ravenloft has already released something like this (undead PCs). Speaking of campaign releases as opposed to rules, I think AD&D has done well in that area also. They took much longer to do so than D&D but I think at this moment you have many good examples to choose from. I guess the question is if Mystara uses the D&D rules or are the D&D rules Mystara? I'm hoping that D&D isn't too much a part of the world that another system would change it greatly. _____________________________________ This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 15:37:07 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: [MYSTARA] - Area of Concern Greetings! I would like to get some opinions on which Immortals do you feel have a greater impact on Mystara. Not just certain nations but to the world as a whole. _____________________________________ This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 16:58:35 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystarans Unite << The one truly invented culture is the Empire of Alphatia, based upon the legends of Atlantis. >> And many people feel reminded to the USA. But I hope that the USA will not sink as I would have to buy a new globe. :-) Jamuga Khan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 23:33:13 +0100 From: Lorenzo Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The NEW Mystara Galwylin wrote: >Well, I've read a few desires on the list of what people would like to see if Mystara had a new lease on life concerning era. I thought I'd list what I personally would like. Might not be profitable but it's what I think would be great to have. >1) I'd like the new Mystara to be post-WotI. Either 1015 or later. Just because I like to move forward in each release. >2) I'd like to see the whole continent of Brun be the focus of the new Mystara. Not spot products of the Known World and the Savage Coast but all of it with the parts we haven't seen yet. All the other settings release based on continents (except Dark Sun) and I like to see that used for Mystara. >3) I'd like for them to say exactly how Mystara connects to the other settings either as a separate dimension, a crystal sphere or what ever as long as its revealed. I disagree here. I'm a fervent opponent of space-time-portal-travellers and such. I'd rather keep Mystara an independent setting, because most of its atmosphere is strictly inherent to places and nations (the setting itself may cut a poor figure before other magnificent-looking settings like DragonLance, based upon their sourrounding aura of greatness). IMHO. >4) I'd like to see the re-release in book form instead of box. Though it will not include a map they could follow Ravenloft's Domains of Dread and release one later separately. A small map on each nation as it's discussed would do for me. That wouldn't make any difference for me. >5) Include special classes and kits for Mystara. I like the settings to be different in more ways that lay of the land and history. Like someone said earlier, the rules should be formed around Mystara not Mystara around the rules. It might be possible to do myself but I'm not a designer and so have very little reference. >6) Reach out to both D&D and AD&D players with suggestion of how to incorporate any new material into both systems. I'd like to see it mainly for Mystara without too much specific rule material except where needed. These are very good points. I'd know what others think ... >7) Bring back the player's and dungeon master sections. Might be best to go with a box in this case but I personally would buy both books. I personally prefer a Gaz-like publications. And similar to those of AD&D, too. Lorenzo. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 23:43:41 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Area of Concern At 15.37 16/03/98 -0600, you wrote: >Greetings! >I would like to get some opinions on which Immortals do you feel have a greater impact on Mystara. Not just certain nations but to the world as a whole. Ixion: he's worshipped almost everywhere and WotI had a great impact on the world. Atzanteotl: the evil guy everywhere on (and in) Mystara Vanya: Heldannic Knights are everywhere Alphaks: his meteor had a great impact in northern Darokin :) Anyway virtually any Immortal could have a major impact on Mystara: just imagine what quiet immortals as Protius, Khoronus and Terra could do if they want to? - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 17:59:10 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Area of Concern At 03:37 PM 3/16/98 -0600, you wrote: >Greetings! >I would like to get some opinions on which Immortals do you feel have a greater impact on Mystara. Not just certain nations but to the world as a whole. I think Thanatos would be up near the top...Ixion, Ordana, Khoronus, basically the heirarchs; most of them have their noses all over the place. I suppose you could say Rad has/had an effect on the whole world, too... Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 18:12:44 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystarans Unite At 04:58 PM 3/16/98 EST, you wrote: ><< The one truly invented culture is the Empire of Alphatia, based upon >the >legends of Atlantis. >> >And many people feel reminded to the USA. But I hope that the USA will not sink as I would have to buy a new globe. :-) I don't think this is an appropriate analogy at all...unless one is speaking strictly in terms of blatant power. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 20:46:03 -0300 From: Victor Caminha Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Area of Concern At 15:37 16/03/98 -0600, you wrote: >Greetings! >I would like to get some opinions on which Immortals do you feel have a greater impact on Mystara. Not just certain nations but to the world as a whole. Hmm.. the first ones that come into my mind are the Hierarchs members of the Councils that oversees Hollow World and Mystara (i do not remember properly which ones...) []s Victor Caminha "Receive the bounty of your hero's deed Tainting thy life by the gift of the dead Eternally running from a priestly bead Unable to bear the Orb in your head You'll walk in the darkness so alluring Without Hope to cleanse your sin Away from the joy of the living Forever to serve your Twin" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 18:00:22 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Area of Concern At 11:43 PM 3/16/98 +0100, you wrote: >Anyway virtually any Immortal could have a major impact on Mystara: just imagine what quiet immortals as Protius, Khoronus and Terra could do if they want to? I agree, I was just wondering which do. I kinda thought Protius, Khoronus and Terra did have a large impact on Mystara though. Maybe no meteors but they seem to concern themselves with aspects that do involve many over the globe. Vanya on the other hand seems more focused and might not be known across the globe. _____________________________________ This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 17:40:06 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The NEW Mystara At 11:33 PM 3/15/96 +0100, you wrote: >I disagree here. I'm a fervent opponent of space-time-portal-travellers and such. >I'd rather keep Mystara an independent setting, because most of its atmosphere is >strictly inherent to places and nations (the setting itself may cut a poor figure >before other magnificent-looking settings like DragonLance, based upon their sourrounding aura of greatness). IMHO. I'd like to see it just for me. One of the reasons I never attempted a Spelljamming campaign is that Mystara was cut off from it unless I make more changes than I wished to. I couldn't change Mystara because that was where we spent most of our time. I'd just like answers so that everything is open to me without me needing to worry about how it fits together rule wise and concentrate on story. It's easier to ignore established ties than create them myself. I know its laziness on my part but that's why I use pregenerated setting ;) _____________________________________ This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 23:55:00 +0000 From: Thorfinn Tait Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - READ THIS -- Tact and Such On Sat, 14 Mar 1998 JamugaKhan wrote: <<< As for Jamuga Khan, he does at times display a uppityness in his >responses. I do not think he means it to come across that way. He does have his biases. I cannot argue with him on that. For being biased is an opinion, and you cannot debate opinions. >> >Hey Alex, you know really unusual words. I had to look into a dictionary to find out what you meant. Unfortunately I have to admit that I sometimes make this impression to other people. As I said before I don't have so much time as I would like to have and I learned English in school when I was ten. So sometimes some sentences slip through which insult other, but normally it is not meant this way. In this point you have understand me obviously. Thank you very much. I guess "uppityness" is the sort of word you just don't get taught when you're learning English as a second language. ;-) Thorf. PS - Cool word, by the way. :-) ========================================= "All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost." Thorfinn Tait--Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk Unofficial Keeper of the Offical Timeline ========================================= *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 18:41:21 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystarans Unite At 06:12 PM 3/16/98 -0500, you wrote: >><< The one truly invented culture is the Empire of Alphatia, based upon >>the >>legends of Atlantis. >> >>And many people feel reminded to the USA. But I hope that the USA will not sink as I would have to buy a new globe. :-) >I don't think this is an appropriate analogy at all...unless one is speaking strictly in terms of blatant power. I took it to mean the internal corruption and self indulgence of the US which our news and entertainment industry has been so kind to spread across the globe. I don't Alphatia resembles any nation, current or ancient, in more than a passing way. It will be interesting to see the Atlantis/Alphatia myth take shape though. Maybe they will be protrayed as a kind benevolent land that brought enlightenment to others or a evil empire that threaten to cover the world in darkness before being stopped by the Immortals. _____________________________________ This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #174 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 23:50:13 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #175 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: c93f8f136ac9b410e8779dd434fb274c mystara-digest Monday, March 16 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 175 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Mystara and Rules Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara and Rules Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara and Rules Re: Dimensions and Planes (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth) Re: [MYSTARA] - The NEW Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth [MYSTARA] - Page Update Re: [MYSTARA] - The NEW Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Other cultures Re: [MYSTARA] - MAGE in Glantri [MYSTARA] - Magyars Re: [MYSTARA] - Magyars Re: [MYSTARA] - Area of Concern Re: [MYSTARA] - dervishes in ylaruam Re: [MYSTARA] - Area of Concern Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystarans Unite Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Re: [MYSTARA] - threads and stuff Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D realism vs OD&D fantasy ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 20:19:08 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mystara and Rules Galwylin wrote: I guess the question is if Mystara uses the D&D rules or are the D&D rules Mystara? I'm hoping that D&D isn't too much a part of the world that another system would change it greatly. I see your point. Personally I would prefer to see products being written for Mystara, period. Worse comes to worse I can convert the material to my rules adaptations. I'm at the point now where almost any new material would be welcome. What I would like to see: Gaz quality hex maps of new areas (I'd really like to see those hex maps of the Dragon series on the Savage Coast all connected into one big trail map - most of them do fit together, but it's a pain...). New Gaz material - Hule, Wendar, Heldannic Territories, Emerond, Minaea, Cestia - although many of us are already working on these, seeing TSR put in the effort would be nice. Adventures - We need adventures of all levels in other areas of the world - - how about some in Darokin, Ethengar, or even Atruaghin? Sure we can write great material on our own, but when I read TSR's material, my imagination just goes flying. That's about all I have to say. Thanks for listening! Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 98 17:56:00 PST From: MichaelX Harvey Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara and Rules >Gaz quality hex maps of new areas (I'd really like to see those hex mmaps of the Dragon series on the Savage Coast all connected into one big trail map - most of them do fit together, but it's a pain...). I am working on Java software right now to create such maps. It should be ready for testing in another week or two. Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 21:11:04 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara and Rules Mike wrote: >I am working on Java software right now to create such maps. It should be ready for testing in another week or two. Hmmm! You have my interest! What would the hex images look like? Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 21:12:26 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: Dimensions and Planes (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth) In a message dated 98-03-16 08:19:35 EST, jdaly@friend.ly.net writes: >I think the term "reality" might be more appropriate for what you describe, rrather than dimension. Dimensions in Mystara fall more to the real world mathematical definition which, to me, has always been more interesting if a bit complicated. You are using the definition from the gold box "Immortal's" set; I was using the definition from _Wrath of the Immortals_. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 21:12:35 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The NEW Mystara In a message dated 98-03-16 06:16:16 EST, galwylin@airnet.net writes: >1) I'd like the new Mystara to be post-WotI. Either 1015 or later. Just bbecause I like to move forward in each release. A possible alternative: Describe the setting at different times, including changes that occur at key dates. It is not necessary to go into great detail -- a summary is sufficient. As an example: suppose you are generating an Elf character from Karameikos. Prior to WotI, the Elf is probably Callarii, with a slight chance of being Vyalia. The chance of being Vyalia should increase after adventure B10 is run or passed up. After WotI, "Alfheim refugee" becomes a new possibility. >2) I'd like to see the whole continent of Brun be the focus of the new Mystara. Not spot products of the Known World and the Savage Coast but all of it with the parts we haven't seen yet. All the other settings release based on continents (except Dark Sun) and I like to see that used for Mystara. Here here! Mystara is a world that just begs for this sort of treatment -- it is the only one so far not to have an overall summary. >3) I'd like for them to say exactly how Mystara connects to the other settings either as a separate dimension, a crystal sphere or what ever as long as its revealed. I lean towards separate dimension myself, but I agree -- pick an explanation and go with it. >4) I'd like to see the re-release in book form instead of box. Though it will not include a map they could follow Ravenloft's Domains of Dread and release one later separately. A small map on each nation as it's discussed would do for me. The D&D Rules Cyclopedia contained maps, as did Domain of Dread, so including maps in a book is not out of the question by any means. But I would go along with either approach as long as they started with the overall summary. Then future products could provide more details. >5) Include special classes and kits for Mystara. I like the settings to be different in more ways that lay of the land and history. Like someone said earlier, the rules should be formed around Mystara not Mystara around the rules. It might be possible to do myself but I'm not a designer and so have very little reference. And while they are at it they could integrate the setting a bit better. For example, Elven Treekeepers should exist wherever Elves have clans and Trees of Life, not just in Alfheim. Half-Elves should be handled in a consistent way -- remember that they were originally omitted because D&D lacks a Half-Elf class, not because Humans and Elves never mated with each other. Here is one idea for an approach to take -- make Half-Elves socially "invisible" as a distinct race. Mystarans outside of the Savage Coast do not believe in the existence of Half-Elves, even though they exist all around them. Anyone who indicates that his parents are an Elf and a Human is likely to be asked, "So -- are you an Elf or a Human?" The answer he gives will greatly shape how he is perceived by others. Most Half-Elves would be regarded as Human, for obvious reasons. >6) Reach out to both D&D and AD&D players with suggestion of how to incorporate any new material into both systems. I'd like to see it mainly for Mystara without too much specific rule material except where needed. Yes! >7) Bring back the player's and dungeon master sections. Might be best to go with a box in this case but I personally would buy both books. I doubt TSR/WotC will go for it -- designating any product as a DM product would reduce sales if people took the designation seriously. And if people don't take the designation seriously, why bother? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 21:12:41 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth In a message dated 98-03-16 09:12:04 EST, jdaly@friend.ly.net writes: >I believe Haldemar is too young, although he is certainly a power to be ccontended with. Haldemar is certainly not the most powerful wizard from Mystara, but he is certainly the most well traveled. If he continues his exploration after 1012 AC (when he helped depose Zandor -- I am pretty sure that Joshuan's Almanac doesn't mention him), then he could easily visit Skothar and many other areas that he has not yet visited. And somewhere along the way he could find his way into the Forgotten Realms or some other setting. Certainly Haldemar would provide the most cosmopolitan point of view of any of the possible representative Mages from Mystara. As near as I can tell, Etienne and Terari are each intimately familiar with two nations at most and must rely on what they have learned from others for information about any other nations. Haldemar has some significant gaps in his knowledge, but he has the fewest such gaps of any known Mystaran. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 21:12:39 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth In a message dated 98-03-16 08:22:16 EST, jdaly@friend.ly.net writes: >As has been said before, the >rules are not really all that important...the setting is. But what elements have been there throughout Mystara's life? Not all of the essential features of Mystara were there from the beginning: the setting started out with very little detail and gradually became more detailed. I don't think the setting truly acquired its distinctiveness until the gazetteers started coming out. As for what is essential about Mystara -- as a counterpoint to my earlier suggestion about the Immortals, I would suggest personality as a factor. Those of you who have read the Glantri and Thar gazetteers -- will you ever forget the distinctive NPCs introduced in those books? Is it not obvious that the different forms of intrigue in each of these settings would make life very interesting for player characters even when they aren't out a-dungeoneering? While Mystara has a lot to offer the "power" gamer, it has even more to offer the "social" gamer. And to expand a bit on one of Bruce Heard's ideas -- I can't think of any setting that would provide more potential for theatrical presentations than Mystara. Prior to developing my Glantri PBEM game I actually explored the idea of setting the game up as a LARP. The idea seemed to scare the heck out of the TSR folks I mentioned it to -- but such a game would have great potential as long as it is strictly limited to non-violent scenarios. This would work well in aristocratic circles in the more magically inclined nations -- there people would settle their differences either by talking them out or by casting spells at each other. Either way, the chance of real injury to the players would be virtually non-existent. Don't worry, I am not trying to revive this idea -- but if anyone at TSR/WotC wants to do anything with it, I certainly wouldn't discourage them. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 21:17:05 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Page Update Hey everyone! I updated my website late last week. I've got an article on staging hints for Alphatia, an old talk on Blackmoorian laser weapons, Bruce Heard's ruling on Tortle ACs, and room for the Alphatian Gazetteers when they are written. Also, I've added two more maps of Davania - one of the Vulture Peninsula/Lost Valley region, and the other continuing east to the end of the Vulcanian Peninsula. All maps are of course free for download, so come on down and check them out. :) Only two more maps of Davania to go and the continent's mapped out folks. Almost there!!!!! Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 21:27:12 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The NEW Mystara Kaviyd Wrote: >Here here! Mystara is a world that just begs for this sort of treatment -- it is the only one so far not to have an overall summary. It would be even better if TSR/WotC kept what we wrote for the other areas in mind. Since that likely won't happen, it would still be interesting to see what the writers at the company decided to put in Davania, for example. Still, you are right, Mystara is a world that is screaming for detail. Some areas should still be left vacant though, for DMs to fill. >The D&D Rules Cyclopedia contained maps, as did Domain of Dread, so including maps in a book is not out of the question by any means. But I would go along with either approach as long as they started with the overall summary. Then future products could provide more details. This is a reasonable way to go. Today's crib notes could be tomorrow's Gazetteers. >And while they are at it they could integrate the setting a bit better. For example, Elven Treekeepers should exist wherever Elves have clans and Trees of Life, not just in Alfheim. Half-Elves should be handled in a consistent way -- remember that they were originally omitted because D&D lacks a Half-Elf class, not because Humans and Elves never mated with each other. >Here is one idea for an approach to take -- make Half-Elves socially "invisible" as a distinct race. Mystarans outside of the Savage Coast do not believe in the existence of Half-Elves, even though they exist all around them. Anyone who indicates that his parents are an Elf and a Human is likely to be asked, "So -- are you an Elf or a Human?" The answer he gives will greatly shape how he is perceived by others. Most Half-Elves would be regarded as Human, for obvious reasons. Ah, but likewise it would not take much to extend the material in Dragon to cover the rest of the world. IMC half elves are a race, roughly along the lines of what Bruce wrote. Still, your idea is good, too, as it blends old rules and new. >>6) Reach out to both D&D and AD&D players with suggestion of how to incorporate any new material into both systems. I'd like to see it mainly for Mystara without too much specific rule material except where needed. >Yes! Definitely! The main goal should be getting our world back! Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 18:30:43 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Other cultures Hey Aleksei, I just noticed the Holy Slayers right after I wrote this, sorry. I had read about them before but forgotten (I don't do too much modern day Ylari stuff). I do remember having the idea about Barimoor a while back so I swear I wasn't ripping you off, but what you've got is a lot better developed and I'm going to use it when it comes up. I know your assassin leader is a mysterious person - what if he was actually Barimoor? or controlled by him? just asking. anyway thanks for pointing that out and sorry for the underinformed comments. peace, m@2 "You're not really in love with yourself - you're just in love with the idea of being in love with yourself" - said to me by one of the two little fellas who hang out on either of my shoulders ... I can't remember which ... On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, Aleksei Andrievski wrote: >On Sat, 14 Mar 1998, Matthew Levy wrote: >>the Druze are an offshoot of Islam, their religion is substantially different in many ways. They live in the mountains of Lebanon and are generally pretty militantly independent, IIRC. One rumor is that they are the religious descendents of the medieval assassins' cult headed by the Old Man of the Mountain. btw, one thing i've been toying with is making Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 23:50:13 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #175 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: c93f8f136ac9b410e8779dd434fb274c >>Barimoor into such a figure, a leader of a group of secret alasiyan assassins who revere him as a demigod. let me know what you think, >You might want to take a look at an article on holy slayers of Al-Kalim, on my website. >****************************************** Aleksei Andrievski >k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi >aka Solmyr, the Archmage of the Azure Star Visit the Archmage's Tower at >http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 19:32:08 -0000 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MAGE in Glantri Pasi, as a big Mage fan, I have one word for this... wow! It is obvious you put a lot of thought into this, and I am hoping you share a few more details with us. A few comments... Anias Pasi did thus profoundly spew forth... >'Long Long time ago our realm was ruled by a race of Technomancers, now known to us few as the Blackmoor Civilization. They were the only ones who could shape the reality then, for they had set the Ruling Paradigms of that time. And woe, their power was great, for even the great spirits of Umbra, known for the foreigners now as immortals, Although I dig the idea of Immortals as Umbrals, perhaps another idea is that they are mages who have managed to find Ascension? This works well with both the Mage concepts as well as keeping with the Mystara idea that anyone, with enough luck, time and effort, could achieve Immortal status. >And far away, behind the deepest Umbrae was the realm of Alphatia. But the realm was divided into two. The Magikal Flaems and the Airmages who later founded the Alphatia You know of fought ower the Paradigms to be >set in their world. For the Air-mages wanted a realm of Pattern, full with Magical formulae, spells and incantations, while the Flaem wanted a world of free magik, where everything was possible, and where eweryone would awake. I really like the casting of the AD&D style spell system as a paradigm as restrictive as the Union's technomancy. So, what exactly was the paradigm of the Flaems? >The Principalities. >-Alhabra: Spanish-tylish Life (shapechanges) mages? Elves, humans and half-elves. Distrusted by others, mostly for no reason really. -New Avegroine: Werewolves and Correspondence. Etienne is the most powerfull mage around, but not a real Immortal. Allmost as powerfull though, and the Immortals are, as said only Great spirits, so... Perhaps an Oracle? >And so on. I-ll try to type everything I have made clean someday, and I'll >shear it then. I will be waiting. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com ICQ #4253672 "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 18:42:54 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: [MYSTARA] - Magyars I just thought of something ... the other day we were talking about where on Mystara a quasi-Hungarian culture could be placed. I couldn't think of where there was one, but I just realized: I was thinking present day. If you go back 4000 years, there IS a clearly Hungarian culture - Thonia! Several of the names of Thonian places or characters - Mohacs, Miklos Haruska, etc. are clearly Magyar, and the analogy was probably intended (either by Dave Arneson or by the Castle & Crusade society people before him) to evoke the Hapsburg (Austro-Hungarian) Empire (as well as the Roman in some other ways). So perhaps modern Thonia is still essentially Hungarian? someone was working on the idea of a modern-day Thonian wasteland overrun by humanoids using old Blackmoor technology - has anything else been done on this? peace, m@2 "You're not really in love with yourself - you're just in love with the idea of being in love with yourself" - said to me by one of the two little fellas who hang out on either of my shoulders ... I can't remember which ... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 22:14:30 EST From: Mystaros Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magyars Well, IMC the Essurians of Denegoth are actually a "Magyar" type people, being *distantly* related to the people of Karjaala (the Saamari, the "Mystaran Finns") and the Vaarana (the "Mystaran Lapps"). These Essurians assimilated many aspects of the local Ashtalan (Oltec-descended) culture (much like the real-world Magyars adopted many Turkish folkways). But that's just IMC... Mystaros *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 23:09:19 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Area of Concern In a message dated 98-03-16 19:36:40 EST, galwylin@airnet.net writes: >Vanya on the other hand seems more focused and might not be known aacross the globe. Let's see -- she is quite prominent in the Known World region, and she used to have a considerable presence in the Hollow World -- in fact, even without the Hattians I think she is still revered by the Kubitts and some of the Merry Pirates. She is also revered in one of the Savage Baronies, Narvaez. So she has a presence in all three of the sections of Mystara that have been well detailed -- I would imagine from this sample that she has followers all over the place. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 23:09:13 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - dervishes in ylaruam In a message dated 98-03-16 13:39:05 EST, MAESTROPI@aol.com writes: >i took away the thieving skills, and added clerical ability to the mystic cclass. it starts with 2750 to reach 2nd level, 5500 for third....maxing out >at +275000 between levels. Now I see why your player complained -- what you created was basically a specialty priest class. Maybe you should have used either the Cleric or Druid XP table? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 23:09:15 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Area of Concern In a message dated 98-03-16 18:05:24 EST, brizio@lunet.it writes: >Anyway virtually any Immortal could have a major impact on Mystara: just iimagine what quiet immortals as Protius, Khoronus and Terra could do if they want to? Protius is an example of an Immortal who is far more powerful than he at first appears to be. He can claim among his followers the Ylari and all other followers of Al-Kalim (indirectly) and most of the Undersea races (directly). It is probably just as well that he seems to be an easygoing type. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 23:09:17 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystarans Unite In a message dated 98-03-16 20:02:10 EST, galwylin@airnet.net writes: >It will be interesting to see the >Atlantis/Alphatia myth take shape though. Maybe they will be protrayed as a kind benevolent land that brought enlightenment to others or a evil empire that threaten to cover the world in darkness before being stopped by the Immortals. But the myth won't really form for a long time. At present, Alphatia is busy re-establishing contact with the outer world -- if they have their way, they will eventually be in regular contact with the outside world and will thus be a distant reality, not a dimly remembered legend. I could still see a scenario that would allow the Atlantis legend to develop, however -- if the Immortals decide at some future date that too many people in the Known World know about the Hollow World and are traveling there, the Immortals could easily seal up the polar openings as well as any other connections they know about. Then the two settings would be permanently divorced once again. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 04:37:14 GMT From: cpb@gatewest.net (Chris Paul Billows) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D On Sun, 15 Mar 1998 22:19:50 EST, you wrote: ><< I am a hard and fast supporter of OD&D over AD&D. I think when you mention wwanting to have a elf thief... that is fine. But elves as a race are so much more powerful than humans and halflings... >> >I'm not sure which system you're talking about...but how are they so much more powerfull??? As I stated earlier an elf has multiple languages... can be any class, has infravision, is resistant to paralysis and sleep (is that right? Can't remember the old PHB). Things that other races do not have. ><> >For expansion, and roleplaying opportunities? I am not making good on my effort to explain myself. People do not like OD&D because they say it makes not sense to pick a race as a class... I would argue that it is no less satisfying playing a generic elf in OD&D than an elf thief in AD&D. Of course, it is what the player wants. ><< This is what leads to munchkinism IMO. Yes OD&D is rigid... a race is considered >to be a class but at least all the classes are balanced in terms of game play. >OD&D was simple and fluid... >> >How is AD&D not balenced, simple, or fluid? Simple... not as simple as OD&D. Needing four plus tombs to play a game is not fuid in my opinion. The D&D Cyclopedia is smaller that the old DM Guide, yet has all the rules you need. That is fluid... ><> >I really don't see how picking a class takes away from roleplaying... What do you mean here? >-Inconu Sorry... that is not what I am trying to say - I am just saying playing OD&D generic races/classes can be very satisfying. Choosing races and multiple classes can take away from roleplaying if munchkinism becomes part of the game. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 04:37:22 GMT From: cpb@gatewest.net (Chris Paul Billows) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D On Mon, 16 Mar 1998 14:48:04 EST, you wrote: ><< But elves as a race are so much more powerful than humans and halflings... why bother picking a different race? >> >I don't agree. Each race has bonuses along with penalties to prevent this. In AD&D an elf gets a +1 to the dexterity score and a -1 to the constitution score to offset the bonus. Their largest bonus I believe is the fact that they can live much longer than humans. This is offset by the lower maximum level demihumans can achieve. >--- -- --Criptonite Ability scores have nothing to do with it... I only know the old PHB - but the elves were much more gifted than any of the other races in that book. As I said earlier a 1st level elf mage will have more advantages than a 1st human mage. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 04:37:30 GMT From: cpb@gatewest.net (Chris Paul Billows) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - threads and stuff On Mon, 16 Mar 1998 19:57:10 +0000, you wrote: >At 15:07 15/03/98 GMT, you wrote: >>On Fri, 13 Mar 1998 08:30:22 -0500 (EST), you wrote: >> >>>I couldn't agree more. I don't need tables for everything and find them more a nuisance than something useful. Especially with the Rules Cyclopedia, OD&D is a heckuva lot cheaper to start out on also. >>AND this is why AD&D wins over D&D... It is simple and unfortunate eeconomics. A >simple and elegant gaming system is lost because TSR can make more money off >selling more rules... sorta like the battle between Beta and VHS or UNIX and >Windows95... marketing and profit is what makes it in the marketplace. >It's true that AD&D almost force you to but new rules but D&D produced the gazaters and the >new player races (Wood creatures, sea creatures and the were beasties. An undead one would have been nice) >By producing decent campaign material on a regular basis this can match the bombardment of AD&D rules Ah... but that stuff is not unlike any of the campaign worlds that TSR produces now... they are not really rules but information guides that fleshes out Mystara even more. I would not classify the Gazzetes to be rules. Anything beyond the five boxed sets or the Cyclopedia is optional. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 04:37:36 GMT From: cpb@gatewest.net (Chris Paul Billows) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D realism vs OD&D fantasy On Sun, 15 Mar 1998 22:30:39 EST, you wrote: ><< because they make certain characters and races very typical. It is much easier >to understand and accept that all Elves are such and such, dwaves are such and >such. People do not stop reading these books just because they are not realistic... it is fantasy.>> >I agree that it's easier to understand, but I think it's much more believeable to think that an Elf could actually have...more than one profession. But you are right, AD&D adds more realism to the game. I enjoy semi-realism more than complete fantasy. It's easier to picture many aspects of the game when there is more realism IMO. Don't get me wrong though, i'm not putting your game down....i just enjoy a different atmosphere than the one it seems you like. Agreed... that is why they are different games! ><thus they are not a player option. Just like a clanholder, relickeeper. That is >why demihumans are so clannish... they are are like a advanced tribe that does >not need to go outside of itself to do the things humans need to do. That is why >they are only one class/race.>> >That doesn't make sense to me.... Why would dwarven fighters adventure ...if the race was so advanced and didn't need to go outside of thier clan? Also, how do you consider liveing a lifestlye of seclusion advanced? If anything, it would seem more close-minded. Why not experience anything outside of your mountain....or whatever home you have? Why be ignorant to the surrounding world? In my mind, the demihumans are races that do not have the same fire of adventure that humans possess. They are mystical, isolationist and only the odd bunch will leave the clan to go in the outside world. It is a difference mindset. >IMO a more advanced lifestyle would be to have knowledge of everything around you as well as everything in your society.... A society keeping to itself cannot grow or learn. It takes outside influences to spark these things. >-Inconu Yeah... but if you already think you know it all... heck the Elves live for 800 years - what are humans going to teach them!!! I see the demihumans as being pretty smug and comfortable. __________________________________ | |\ | Chris Billows | | | Check out my Gaming Memoirs | | | www.gatewest.net/~cpb/gaming/ | | |_________________________________| | \_________________________________\| *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #175 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, March 17 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 176 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - MAGE in Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystarans Unite Re: [MYSTARA] - SaveMystara! [MYSTARA] - ino/opinions needed Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth Re: [MYSTARA] - Other cultures Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D realism vs OD&D fantasy Re: [MYSTARA] - ino/opinions needed Re: [MYSTARA] - Area of Concern Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystarans Unite Re: [MYSTARA] - ino/opinions needed Re: [MYSTARA] - Magyars Re: [MYSTARA] - Orcus Re: [MYSTARA] - Orcus Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth [MYSTARA] - Priming the RPGA Pump!!! Re: [MYSTARA] - Other cultures Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara and Rules Re: [MYSTARA] - ino/opinions needed ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 09:00:52 +0200 (EET) From: Anias Pasi Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MAGE in Glantri Leroy wrote: >Pasi, as a big Mage fan, I have one word for this... wow! Why... Thank You, Leroy. >Although I dig the idea of Immortals as Umbrals, perhaps another idea is that they are mages who have managed to find Ascension? This works well with both the Mage concepts as well as keeping with the Mystara idea that anyone, with enough luck, time and effort, could achieve Immortal status. Well, what do you think the mage becomes, when he finds Ascension? The Immortals are just best described as Umbral lords. The system I have is just the one You are suggesting. In Ascension A Mage becomes an Immortal (doing it thru one of the traditional ways, or thru the use of RAD), moving into Umbra and gaining new powers. They still can come to Mystara, but will have to take a mortal form. just like in DD. It's just that the text You replied upon was what the peoples know. Only some know what the ascension is about.... >I really like the casting of the AD&D style spell system as a paradigm as restrictive as the Union's technomancy. SSo, what exactly was the paradigm of the Flaems? The Mage system of magic. The basic arguments were Pattern agains Dynamist. The Alphatians wanting peace and stability, the Flaems wanting the ability for eweryone to change the surroundings to their liking, and oppising the 'fasist like ideas of the Alphatians'. Read the eweryone as ewery noble flaem. the questing was not too common at the time, and Primordial had a heck of the time during the war. >>-New Avegroine: Werewolves and Correspondence. Etienne is the most powerfull mage around, but not a real Immortal. Allmost as powerfull though, and the Immortals are, as said only Great spirits, so... PPerhaps an Oracle? something like that yes. Or then one could describe him as being in the ascencion at the moment... Pasi - -- X Pasi Anias X p.03 - 2533536 X \\|// X X Sammonkatu 28 A 18 X a122286@proffa X (o o) X X 33540 Tampere X .cc.tut.fi X o000--(_)--000o X *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 01:04:23 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystarans Unite At 11:09 PM 3/16/98 EST, you wrote: >But the myth won't really form for a long time. At present, Alphatia is busy re-establishing contact with the outer world -- if they have their way, they will eventually be in regular contact with the outside world and will thus be a distant reality, not a dimly remembered legend. Yes but there would be inconsistencies start to show themselves as new generations come of age that only get worst. We're not even sure what the general population thinks or knows about the events. >I could still see a scenario that would allow the Atlantis legend to develop, however -- if the Immortals decide at some future date that too many people in the Known World know about the Hollow World and are traveling there, the Immortals could easily seal up the polar openings as well as any other connections they know about. Then the two settings would be permanently divorced once again. Well, if communication is going to be easy to establish and keep then I do wish the Immortals would close the openings. Alphatia should be concentrating on their 'new' world and forget the outer world for now. The people of the outer world shouldn't ever find out if the Hollow World is real. If Alphatia seeks to establish contact with the outer world so much, why not immigrate to it? _____________________________________ This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 10:44:03 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - SaveMystara! On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, Glen Sprigg wrote: >Oh, sure. You've already got a vampire, a lich, a night dragon, and a kobold. Yeah, you've really got it made. One of these days we may have to Don't forget a werewolf and an Immortal! >clean out the infestation up there. Besides, you mages can't last that long in a fight. What happens when you run out of spells and wands, hmm? Heh heh. By the time we run out of spells and wands, you will run out of life... Louis de Sauvier, Baron of Ylourgne ****************************************** Aleksei Andrievski k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi aka Solmyr, the Archmage of the Azure Star Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 04:21:13 EST From: Flindor Subject: [MYSTARA] - ino/opinions needed I should be gaming in a week or two and am looking for any information that anyone can give me. - -I have had endless problems with the "danger sense" skill on pg. 83 of the RC. When gaming I do a lot of foreshadowing out of habit "you feel a sense of dread as you lower yourself into the crypt" kinda thing so the skill is kind of redundant here. Also there is danger just about everywhere in a dungeon so a pc could get a form of sensory overload. Has anybody come up with a good and fast rule for this skill? I am seriously considering removing it altogether - the last game ended with a pc opening a small crypt (with a wight) that attacks immediatly upon opening (don't they all!) but I figured that the crypt was thick enough to hide any "danger eminations" and the attack succeeded - pissing off the pc. Is it possible to do away with any and all dangerous surprises by simply selecting this spell? This skill could make future sessions both safe and boring from now on. I worship at the shrine of game balance and find this skill to be nothing but a bother. - -Has anyone played arena of thyatis and legions of thyatis back to back? My characters will be finishing the first one soon and am looking for a mini- adventure to fill in between them. In the second module it mentions that the two might occur some time apart. - -Once the pc's get out of thyatis I want to run X2:castle amber (circa AC1000-1). I have yet to introduce Glantri in any meaningful way (they've only adventured in karameikos and thyatis) and wondered if anyone out there had played this module in light of the gazeteers at this time. For instance - should there be Ambers throughout Glantri? or should they all reappear with the conclusion of X2?. - -Just a thought: I am currently perusing my modules and have come to the conclusion that if the pc's play these modules they might save/reinstate about a 1/2 dozen or so nations or governments. I find this an outrageous short-cut in creative adventure writing that so many adventures end in a Wesly Crusher - "I'm here to save the day" kind of deal that I felt like ranting about it. Sorry if that sounded kind of negative. - -Has anyone played Tortles of the Purple Sage from dungeon magazine? is it any good? what part of Mystara does it take place in? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 07:13:01 -0300 From: Victor Caminha Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth At 21:12 16/03/98 EST, you wrote: >In a message dated 98-03-16 09:12:04 EST, jdaly@friend.ly.net writes: >>I believe Haldemar is too young, although he is certainly a power to be cccontended with. >Haldemar is certainly not the most powerful wizard from Mystara, but he is certainly the most well traveled. Well, about power (certainly) and about travelling (i suspect), my vote goes to Azlum Swith (that magic-user from the flying polyhedron) :) []s Victo Caminha "Receive the bounty of your hero's deed Tainting thy life by the gift of the dead Eternally running from a priestly bead Unable to bear the Orb in your head You'll walk in the darkness so alluring Without Hope to cleanse your sin Away from the joy of the living Forever to serve your Twin" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:16:16 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Other cultures On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, Matthew Levy wrote: >Hey Aleksei, I just noticed the Holy Slayers right after I wrote this, sorry. I had read about them before but forgotten (I don't do too much modern day Ylari stuff). I do remember having the idea about Barimoor a while back so I swear I wasn't ripping you off, but what you've got is a Hey, no problem, nobody is forbidden to have similar ideas :) >lot better developed and I'm going to use it when it comes up. I know your assassin leader is a mysterious person - what if he was actually Barimoor? or controlled by him? Yes, when I first presented that article on the mailing list, there have been some comments about about Barimoor having a possible involvement with the Holy Slayers. Personally, I don't like that idea (sorry listmembers :) for two reasons. One, I intended to portray the HS as an organization taking Ylari beliefs to extremes, which means mages are hated. Two, Barimoor is questing for Immortality, and he has to *personally* challenge the powerful mages of his area, meaning that if he uses some fanatics to eliminate them he'd be judged unworthy. Of course, that article is free for you to use/abuse as you wish IYC, I'm not going to dictate how you should treat it :) ****************************************** Aleksei Andrievski k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi aka Solmyr, the Archmage of the Azure Star Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 07:12:00 EST From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D << >How is AD&D not balenced, simple, or fluid? Simple... not as simple as OD&D. Needing four plus tombs to play a game is not fuid in my opinion. The D&D Cyclopedia is smaller that the old DM Guide, yet has all the rules you need. That is fluid... >> I don't beleive that's entirely accurate......The only book "needed" to play is the PHB. Any other supplements are not needed.....they can just be used for heavier detail into the character or as sidetools for the DM. Hell, after playing for so many years....sometimes no books are needed anymore ;) ....and about the other comments i made.....i posted them prior to reading your responses to Leroy....so it's not that you're not getting through...i do understand your other points on the matter. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 07:15:36 EST From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D realism vs OD&D fantasy << Yeah... but if you already think you know it all... heck the Elves live for 800 years - what are humans going to teach them!!! I see the demihumans as being pretty smug and comfortable. >> Okay....once again it just seems like an aspect of the game we play differently from eachother... ;) That last paragraph explained your views well though....i can see the way you treat demihumans now... - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 07:29:16 EST From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - ino/opinions needed << -I have had endless problems with the "danger sense" skill on pg. 83 of the RC. When gaming I do a lot of foreshadowing out of habit "you feel a sense of dread as you lower yourself into the crypt" kinda thing so the skill is kind of redundant here. >> not necessarily redundant....Realize that the feelings and emotions that sweep over the PCs could merely be from a past experience, adventure, chilling wind gusts, the way the mansion appears, the sight of the crypt, the stench of an area....etc....This has nothing to do with danger senseing. The natural feelings could be experienced even if nothing dangerous was anywhere around....The danger sense is the only concrete way to know what's going on around you...if anything. Maybe you should use your foreshadowing to fool the PCs every once in a while. A certain NPC makes a chill run down only one of the PC's spines....and only the first time you meet him. Make a point that it's not felt anytime other than the first time.....The PC will always have a suspicion of the NPC, and could make for good roleplaying opportunities. Offers by the NPC will seem generous and giveing to all but this one PC.....well you know what i'm getting at.....Only you will know what this NPC's true intentions are. The same with the feeling of going into a crypt. Of course they'll get those feelings...but who's to say a pack of thieves ran through this place a week ago and took off with what the PC's were looking for.....now the adventure shifts entirely....The wizard's "negative plane protection" "protection from undead" "invisibility to undead" and all those spells are now useless...to him..... There's lots of ways to put spins on it....but in the end if nothing works...then you might have to either chuck or change the rule. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 08:54:14 EST From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Area of Concern In a message dated 98-03-16 16:59:25 EST, you write: << Greetings! I would like to get some opinions on which Immortals do you feel have a greater impact on Mystara. Not just certain nations but to the world as a whole. >> Ixion and Terra and Hel. The sun, earth, and death (respectively) are big issues in the overall scheme of Mystara. As such, these Immortals would be the big boys of Pandius. Honorable mentions go out to Valerius & Protius. IMO other Immortals focus their attentions on other areas of preference. Another item to add to this- What Immortals would you like to see take on a greater role in Mystara? Myself I would like to see some increased activity on the parts of Talitha and the departed Emperer Thincol's mom. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 08:57:31 EST From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystarans Unite In a message dated 98-03-16 17:16:21 EST, you write: << << The one truly invented culture is the Empire of Alphatia, based upon the legends of Atlantis. >> And many people feel reminded to the USA. But I hope that the USA will not sink as I would have to buy a new globe. :-) >> Jamuga Khan Not only that. Where would I keep all of my stuff? Alex *************************************************************************** Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 13:23:38 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #176 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: bbf8e47efb340c223daa0da8aa5010fb To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 10:19:29 EST From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - ino/opinions needed In a message dated 98-03-17 04:46:49 EST, you write: << I should be gaming in a week or two and am looking for any information that anyone can give me.>> First off have fun. I am envious of you. << -Has anyone played arena of thyatis and legions of thyatis back to back? My characters will be finishing the first one soon and am looking for a mini- adventure to fill in between them. In the second module it mentions that the two might occur some time apart.>> Well, I have both modules and have ran and played them in the past. I usually linked them directly with little gap of time. However, I did contemplate having the PCs set off on a wild goose chase. Possibly following up on a loose end or false lead placed before them in the first adventure. Thinking about it an adventure in between the two would help set them at ease for DDA2. Might be able to catch them off guard. <<-Once the pc's get out of thyatis I want to run X2:castle amber (circa AC1000-1). I have yet to introduce Glantri in any meaningful way (they've only adventured in karameikos and thyatis) and wondered if anyone out there had played this module in light of the gazeteers at this time. For instance - - should there be Ambers throughout Glantri? or should they all reappear with the conclusion of X2?. >> According to Glantri: Kingdom of Magic, the d'Ambervilles arrived in AC 728 . And they disappeared around AC896. Now given some inconsistancies (such as Brannart McGregor's arrival) with G:KoM and the Glantri Gaz, I do not know how much faith you can put in the dates. And from what I can remember of X2 most, if not all of the significant d'Ambrevilles were drawn in. <<-Just a thought: I am currently perusing my modules and have come to the conclusion that if the pc's play these modules they might save/reinstate about a 1/2 dozen or so nations or governments. I find this an outrageous short- cut in creative adventure writing that so many adventures end in a Wesly Crusher - - "I'm here to save the day" kind of deal that I felt like ranting about it. Sorry if that sounded kind of negative.>> Yeah, ain't that a trip. If the PCs are successful in just half of the modules then your Mystara would be quite different than the "canon" one. Not only does this show that each person's campaign offers deviation, it also shows that the PCs should not always succeed. No, I do not mean kill them off, just leave a few loose ends. Reoccurring villians are a favorite of mine. <<-Has anyone played Tortles of the Purple Sage from dungeon magazine? is it any good? what part of Mystara does it take place in? >> Never played it. Assume it is a Savage Coast adventure. Not real big into RS/SC. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 16:23:26 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magyars On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, Mystaros wrote: >Well, IMC the Essurians of Denegoth are actually a "Magyar" type people, being *distantly* related to the people of Karjaala (the Saamari, the "Mystaran Finns") and the Vaarana (the "Mystaran Lapps"). These Essurians assimilated many aspects of the local Ashtalan (Oltec-descended) culture (much like the real-world Magyars adopted many Turkish folkways). But that's just IMC... Don't be so humble old fellow. This sounds interesting. What effects would this have on the Essurians? I know vert little about Magyar culture. Any magyar characterisitics that would be likely to be found among the Essurians. Has anyone developed the Essurians beyond the Wendar-timeline? Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 16:44:26 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Orcus On Sat, 14 Mar 1998, Matthew Levy wrote: >i say that in general much of the "origins of immortals" information in Mystara is pretty confusing. i prefer to leave these things blurry and oftentimes let PCs have no idea what immortal they are worshipping nor even what their exact alignment is (i.e. player characters who think of themselves as very lawful, and who worship Ares, are actually servants of Orcus). this works better for a mysterious element to religion. Interesting. This makes alot of sence since you can never really know whether a hero mentioned in history reached immortality a t that time, or was already immortal. (ie a mortal identity or an avatar) Since my campaign is oriented around mortals, with immortals as background figures or sources of inspiration for heroes and villains, I like to make up a lot of contradicting information about them. One problem with this is that some characters can communicate with the Immortals. The only way to deal with this as I see it is that divination is always up to interpretations. Ie a cleric of Halav wants to ask HAlav about the fuure: He picks up a dead bird, opens it with a ceremonial dagger and spreads the birds interior on the altar. After examining it he concludes that the upcoming battle will be lost, unless someone interferes. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 17:33:27 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Orcus On Sun, 15 Mar 1998, Mystaros wrote: >Personally, I regard the information regarding the "creation" of lycanthropy in Mystara by the Aplhatians as being not completely accurate... IMC, most forms of lycanthropy pre-existed the Alphatian plague, but were far less common than they are "today". The ALphatian plague created some new forms of lycanthropy and increased the occurence of other forms by large percantage points... thus, lycanthropes existed in the time of Blackmoor and the time of the early Traldar, of whom foul Orcus (aka Ares IMC) was a member (about 2400 years ago)... Cool! Orcus is slowly becoming a major behind-the-scenes villain. The PCs have just discovered one of the Nine Blades of Orcus. A series of artifacts that he created for his champions. I'm not quite sure how this will develope further though. Any suggestions are welcome. sincerely Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 18:28:48 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth On Sun, 15 Mar 1998, Kaviyd wrote: >To begin with, trying to "out compete" Greyhawk or the Forgotten Realms would doom Mystara from the start. From what Bruce Heard said, we need to present Mystara not as an alternative of the same type to those game worlds but as a suppelementary world with vastly different characteristics. It should not be depicted in a way that competes directly with those worlds any more than Planescape, Dark Sun, or Gothic Earth were so depicted. But one tip we definitely should pick up from these worlds is that we should warp the AD&D rules to depict the important characteristics of Mystara -- not warp Mystara to conform to the standard AD&D rules as was done before. I agree with you there. I think that mystara could be further developed though. Many of the cultures can be given more depth. I think it would be a good idea not only to use the one earthly culture that the nation is based upon, but perhaps another culture. A good way of making a fantasy culture interesting is to base it upon at least two real world cultures. In that way it becomes more original and intriging. And it can lead to some pretty cool ideas. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:38:48 -0500 From: Daly Subject: [MYSTARA] - Priming the RPGA Pump!!! This address will take you to some guidelines from TSR's site on submitting tournament events to RPGA. http://www.tsr.com/rpga/InfoFiles/trnwrite.html Please, everyone who can, start writing good quality adventures set in Mystara. Even if time is not allowing you so much freedom at the moment, then submit ideas! Let's focus on sending so many good adventures to RPGA that it would just be stupid to ignore us! Bruce said that they need adventures. This is our opening. In each adventure the flavor of Mystara should be conveyed. Don't let them ignore us. We don't need to be combative--in fact I think such an attitude would only hurt us--but we can be forceful in the sheer volume of good material we put out. Some ideas just to start off: 1) An "exploration" adventure in which Thyatis hires the heroes to penetrate the jungles of the Hinterlands. 2) Air combat set against the backdrop of WotI. Alphatia, Thyatis, Heldann, Glantri, and Serraine can all be involved. 3) A mysterious old mage named Terari sends the characters on a quest to find the lost valley. The party has to track down rumors found in the stories of the Hin, Alasiyans, Alfhiemers, Rockhomers, and Ethengarians. 4) An all mage adventure set against the backdrop of the Great School of Magic. 5) An all elf adventure in which the party participates in one of the great hunts. 6) Shadowelf adventurers in the earth or on the surface (nuff said!). 7) Diplomatic or mercantile adventures in Darokin and political adventures in Thyatis or Glantri could convey good Mystaran flavor. 8) The party could be hired to do some work for a country on the Isle of Dawn which will wreak havoc for "the other side". 9) Dominion adventures could be set in Norwold (or anywhere else for that matter!) 10) A dragon could manipulate the pcs into doing something to undermine another dragon and lessen its influence in that part of the world. 11) A rakasta could hire the pcs to help him find his roots. This particular rakasta was taken as a child from the Isle of Dread and sold to Glantrian mages. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 10:17:48 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Other cultures >Yes, when I first presented that article on the mailing list, there have been some comments about about Barimoor having a possible involvement with the Holy Slayers. Personally, I don't like that idea (sorry listmembers :) for two reasons. One, I intended to portray the HS as an organization taking Ylari beliefs to extremes, which means mages are hated. Two, Barimoor is questing for Immortality, and he has to *personally* challenge the powerful mages of his area, meaning that if he uses some fanatics to eliminate them he'd be judged unworthy. Of course, that article is free for you to use/abuse as you wish IYC, I'm not going to dictate how you should treat it :) a couple more questions: 1) couldn't Barimoor be *secretly* controlling things, so they wouldn't even know he was a mage? irony of ironies ... and 2) why does Barimoor have to honorable to acheive immortality? who is doing the judging, anyway? just wondering. i'm a tenacious little bugger when i like an idea. thanks, m@2 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 98 10:19:00 PST From: MichaelX Harvey Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara and Rules Geoff wrote: >Mike wrote: >>I am working on Java software right now to create such maps. It should be ready for testing in another week or two. >Hmmm! You have my interest! What would the hex images look like? Anything you want. They're GIF images, so if you don't like the defaults you can substitute your own. A question regarding trail maps: how wide and tall are the maps, in terms of hexes? I want to make sure the program can *comfortably* handle large enough maps. Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:00:35 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - ino/opinions needed At 04:21 AM 3/17/98 EST, you wrote: >-I have had endless problems with the "danger sense" skill on pg. 83 of the RC. When gaming I do a lot of foreshadowing out of habit "you feel a sense of >dread as you lower yourself into the crypt" kinda thing so the skill is kind of redundant here. Also there is danger just about everywhere in a dungeon so >a pc could get a form of sensory overload. Has anybody come up with a good and fast rule for this skill? I am seriously considering removing it altogether - the last game ended with a pc opening a small crypt (with a wight) that attacks immediatly upon opening (don't they all!) but I figured that the crypt was thick enough to hide any "danger eminations" and the attack >succeeded - pissing off the pc. Is it possible to do away with any and all dangerous surprises by simply selecting this spell? This skill could make future sessions both safe and boring from now on. I worship at the shrine of game balance and find this skill to be nothing but a bother. The way I use this skill is to give players a little help when they might be entering into something they aren't ready for. Sometimes they get careless and overlook a trap that may cause death or such. Of course, sometimes a bad roll will do that but if there's a chance they have overlooked something then that's when I bring the skill into play. Going into danger doesn't trigger the skill. Only when I feel I might need to fudge a roll do I try to use it. In my opinion, opening a crypt wouldn't trigger the skill simply because (if they've adventure very much around undead) they should know there is possible danger there. If they planned to open the crypt anyway then they are overlooking their own experiences. Now if they were low level players, then I would use the skill in an effort to get them to not open the crypt. If you continue to have problems about how the player thinks the skill should be used then I'd remove it unless you can get him to understand it's not a psionic power he has that tells him ahead of time of every dangerious situation he encounters. _____________________________________ This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #176 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, March 17 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 177 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Rising [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] SAGA Mystara (was: - The Fate of Mystara) Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - MAGE in Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - threads and stuff Re: [MYSTARA] - MAGE in Glantri [MYSTARA] - Blizzard Pass Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth Re: [MYSTARA] - Blizzard Pass Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara and Rules Re: [MYSTARA] - READ THIS -- Tact and Such [MYSTARA] - Ten reasons why Master Terari is the coolest high-level wizard of all Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystarans Unite Re: [MYSTARA] - Blizzard Pass Re: [MYSTARA] - Blizzard Pass Re: [MYSTARA] - Ten reasons why Master Terari is the coolest high-level wizard of all ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 13:31:17 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara << Well, there is a difference between First Edition and Second Edition AD&D. In first ediotion, as you said, they are 0-level spells. In 2nd Ed, it is a single 1st level spell (with a multitude of effects). In 2nd ed, it is memorized and cast as any other first-level spell. (I don't have a 1st Ed. PHB, nor do I have a 1st Ed module handy, so I can't say how the progression for Cantrip-level spells go.) Joe >> Sigh! I have 4 books of the 1st edition (Player, Master, and MonsterI/II) but they were not mentioned in these books. Probably in "Unearthed Arcana". This tome haunted me from the beginning. Every time I didn't understand anything, because it didn't work like the rules said, it were from "Unearthed Arcana". Jamuga Khan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 13:31:19 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth << Demihumans in Mystara don't have all the variety of the other worlds, but they do just fine. >> And with the D&D skill system you can vary even an demi-human character. Imagine a dwarf with stealth and hiding skills... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 13:31:19 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth << Hey, I've got an idea; let's bug Ed Greenwood and ask him to do this in one of his Wizards Three articles. What do you think? >> Hm, and I've got the impression that Terari wouldn't take the three and their meetings very serious, and probably vice versa. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 13:31:20 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth << To be honest, I'm surprised (happy, but surprised) TSR is bringing back GH. I suspect the truth behind it is TSR may sense the impending doom of FR, crushed under its own weight and wants to have another medieval fantasy world primed and ready when it goes. At least until they launch AD&D 3rd. Ed. with Dominia as the flagship setting... >> What happened to FR? I always thought about it as the TSR flagship. O.k., even flagships can sink. Jamuga Khan "And some people are still wondering why Ethengars don't use ships." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 19:32:40 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Rising On Sun, 15 Mar 1998, Alex295 wrote: >Things to point out- >Magic. Gamers love magic. With Alphatia in HW the magic factor is reduced. I can think of but a few magical constructs that impressed my old group more than the conjured images of an Alphatian SkyShip. How common is magic? the Karameikan Magicians Guild were never that powerful. The School of Magecraft changed that, though. I think Mystara is full of powerful mages, but magic doesnt become trivial. It remains mysterious. Glantri is probably the most mysterious of all places in the known world. >Dragons. Gamers love hunting dragons. Several settings are overflowing with dragons. It should be emphasized that Mystaran dragons are not your everyday, run of the mill dragons. I agree. >Fantasy. Gamers play xD&D for its fantasy aspect. Let us put fantasy back into the setting. Legends, lore, and the images of armoured knights and wizened wizards should come to mind. And let us get back to basics. Let us get rid of democracies and return to kings, queens, tyrants, and conquerors. Secret orders, cults, and sects are a must. Interesting. I think a danger here could be to fall into the trap of cliches. Lets stay away from the most abused elements of Tolkien and TSR novels. Mystara should remain different from these. >Fun. Gamers want to have a good time. I remember the old days when the DM asked you what you wanted to do. There was no dependance upon tables and such. Just pure imagination, subtly guided by a roll of the dice to decide matters impartially. That is something that needs to be returned to the game. Well spoken. *** Håvard Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 19:47:28 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] SAGA Mystara (was: - The Fate of Mystara) On Thu, 12 Mar 1998, Kaviyd wrote: >In a message dated 98-03-11 10:13:11 EST, borealis@cois.on.ca writes: >>As for the SAGA system, I haven't played it, don't know much about it, and aaam not interested in it; I want Mystara in a D&D/AD&D environment. >Here is my take on the SAGA system as it might apply to Mystara: >Pro: It allows far more flexibility in character creation -- more different types of character are possible in SAGA than in D&D/AD&D. I kinda dislike the character generation system. Especially the part about determining personality randomly. I've created an optional character generation system thought I havent tested it yet. >Con: The characters who can wield magic seem to be significantly less powerful than those in D&D/AD&D. In a magic rich setting like Mystara, that would be a major change. >Perhaps SAGA can be integrated with the D&D/AD&D magic system in some way? Or perhaps Mystara should be brought back as the "flagship" setting of the 3d edition AD&D? If the changes for 3d edition are thought out well enough, it will fit together with Mystara far better than the 2d edition rules did. There was a few articles in some Dragon mags early this year dealing with this. Redefining ths shcools of sorcery to something similar to the schools of the aD&D system. I think that one might consider ways of getting more spellpoints though as this is clearly limiting magic in the SAGA system. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 20:12:27 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara On Thu, 12 Mar 1998, Kaviyd wrote: >-- All Elves begin play with a single first level spell, determined randomly from all available spells except "Read Magic" and "Sleep". >-- For Hollow World Elves, the first level spell is automatically "Detect Magic". >-- Most Elves can cast spells while wearing armor up to chain mail but cannot progress in level. Hit dice are divided up among all classes plus the Mage class, in which they are stuck at first level (although certain special ceremonies may enhance the magical abilities of high level Elves, but not beyond half the level attained in the primary class or beyond level 4 in any case). >-- Elves who actually become Mages learn the spell "Read Magic" and can progress beyond level 1. I like this! I think giving them some of those "drow" abilities isnt such a bad idea either, but this seems to fit even better. I dont know, maybe there should be some downsides with them too. Maybe they dont have the resistance vs sleep and charm, at least not if they dont have a soulname. sincerely Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 20:41:22 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MAGE in Glantri Hey! This sounds very interesting. I don't like changing the setting too much though. I think Etienne should be an immortal. Well I guess that depends on whether you play pre or post WotI. But even if he is an immortal he should be played out as a mortal, so I guess it really doesnt matter. I just bought Werewolf the wild west so I guess I should take my campaign to the Savage Coast huh? Well, anyway, if you've got more, go ahead and post it, there are more people interested :) But what about the magic in MAGE? Im not that familiar with it, but AFAIK the magic system seems to encourage subtle magic. Will you have to leave the fireballs out? just curious Håvard *** On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, Anias Pasi wrote: >Leroy wrote: >>Pasi, as a big Mage fan, I have one word for this... wow! WWhy... Thank You, Leroy. >>Although I dig the idea of Immortals as Umbrals, perhaps another idea is that they are mages who have managed to find Ascension? This works well with both the Mage concepts as well as keeping with the Mystara idea that anyone, with enough luck, time and effort, could achieve Immortal status. >Well, what do you think the mage becomes, when he finds Ascension? The Immortals are just best described as Umbral lords. The system I have is just the one You are suggesting. In Ascension A Mage becomes an Immortal (doing it thru one of the traditional ways, or thru the use of RAD), moving into Umbra and gaining new powers. They still can come to Mystara, but will have to take a mortal form. just like in DD. IIt's just that the text You replied upon was what the peoples know. Only some know what the ascension is about.... >>I really like the casting of the AD&D style spell system as a paradigm as restrictive as the Union's technomancy. SSSo, what exactly was the paradigm of the Flaems? TThe Mage system of magic. The basic arguments were Pattern agains Dynamist. The Alphatians wanting peace and stability, the Flaems wanting the ability for eweryone to change the surroundings to their liking, and oppising the 'fasist like ideas of the Alphatians'. Read the eweryone as ewery noble flaem. >the questing was not too common at the time, and Primordial had a heck of the time during the war. >>>-New Avegroine: Werewolves and Correspondence. Etienne is the most powerfull mage around, but not a real Immortal. Allmost as powerfull though, and the Immortals are, as said only Great spirits, so... PPPerhaps an Oracle? >something like that yes. Or then one could describe him as being in the ascencion at the moment... Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 20:56:29 +0100 From: Lorenzo Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Chris Paul Billows wrote: >><< I am a hard and fast supporter of OD&D over AD&D. I think when you mention wwwanting to have a elf thief... that is fine. But elves as a race are so much more powerful than humans and halflings... >> >>I'm not sure which system you're talking about...but how are they so much more powerfull??? >As I stated earlier an elf has multiple languages... can be any class, has infravision, is resistant to paralysis and sleep (is that right? Can't remember the old PHB). Things that other races do not have. That's not true. Elves do not have multiple languages: those listed in the race description are only suggestions of which languages an elf is likely to know better; though he must spend a proficiency slot to learn each language after the first.I think that all races/classes are perfectly balanced in both AD&D and D&D, even though it's not important for roleplaying purposes (i.e. I'd not blame if my character was less powerful than another in my group, if I like playing him ...) >><> >>For expansion, and roleplaying opportunities? >I am not making good on my effort to explain myself. People do not like OD&D because they say it makes not sense to pick a race as a class... I would argue that it is no less satisfying playing a generic elf in OD&D than an elf thief in AD&D. Of course, it is what the player wants. But it may be less satisfying for someone.After all I like fantasy as long as there is some realism in. Lorenzo. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 13:54:46 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Adapting AD&D to Mystara Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 18:03:48 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #177 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 57826f21df75292c7cd22befb091d938 At 08:12 PM 3/17/98 +0100, you wrote: >I like this! I think giving them some of those "drow" abilities isnt such a bad idea either, but this seems to fit even better. I dont know, maybe there should be some downsides with them too. Maybe they dont have the resistance vs sleep and charm, at least not if they dont have a soulname. Hmm, the one I thought should go was the infravision. I never understood why a race that lived above ground would have it. The vision of the Birthright elves is much more logical. They see in darkness as well as humans in daylight if there is a visible moon or stars. _____________________________________ This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 21:02:30 +0100 From: Lorenzo Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - threads and stuff Chris Paul Billows wrote: >>By producing decent campaign material on a regular basis this can match the bombardment of AD&D rules >Ah... but that stuff is not unlike any of the campaign worlds that TSR produces now... they are not really rules but information guides that fleshes out Mystara even more. I would not classify the Gazzetes to be rules. Anything beyond the five boxed sets or the Cyclopedia is optional. What ? Would you say that AD&D Player's Options or Complete Handbooks are necessary rules ? I see no difference, except in quantity terms. Lorenzo. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:16:17 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MAGE in Glantri >But what about the magic in MAGE? Im not that familiar with it, but AFAIK the magic system seems to encourage subtle magic. Will you have to leave the fireballs out? I am not any sort of expert on White Wolf rules or MAGE in particular, but I have read through the background notes and design philosophy and it was my impression that the reason magic has to be subtle in Mage: The Ascension is that the Technocracy controls the paradigm of reality, so that un-subtle magic creates paradoxes which draw paradox spirits. Based on my own peculiar theories about philosophy and magic, I find this whole thing really fascinating, and I would theorize that in a world like Mystara, fireballs are not seen as paradoxical, because they are part of the paradigm. The rules say that if you do X and Y, you get Z, and so this is not seen as particularly weird at all - Alphatian magic particularly is probably seen like high tech in the RW - not everybody knows how it works, but they know it's supposed to, and while they may worry about it from time to time it doesn't really seem strange or implausible to them. In contrast, psionics in Alphatia (which several people have been discussing recently) would probably be seen as magical powers would be seen in this world ... very strange, not supposed to happen, those who claim to have seen it are treated as charlatans, etc. The thing that I really like about Mage as a game concept is that the system of magic is not just one more tool for getting stuff and killing bad guys, it really is "philosophically pervasive" (if that makes any sense). In a good mage game, every single player character is freaking out all the time about "the nature of reality" - that's what gives it such a cool vibe. there was a really weird movement of "anti-psychiatry" in the sixties where people like Thomas Szasz argued that schizophrenics should actually be seen as visionaries and holy men - things like this translate really well into a game where everything *looks* like everyday modern day America (not even as gothic or slick as vampire or any of those games) but every muttering homeless person might be a sorceror or spy or powerful spirit. The great thing about mage is that you can have a campaign set in your own town, with the specific nuances of a given neighborhood or people you know, etc. translated into magical struggles of truly harrowing danger. now, with mystara you have to tweak that a lot, because the world is ALREADY magical, and in fact the ORDINARY magic should, by the theory above, get perceived as UN-magical. tricky eh? another thing to look at in this respect would be the new alternative magic rules in the player's option spells and magic book. anyway, i gotta get off this tangent. peace all, m@2 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 14:24:13 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: [MYSTARA] - Blizzard Pass Greetings! I recieved some older modules today (B1, B4, 4, CM2, CM4, MSOLO1) that helps me understand some of the recent topics on the list but I was wondering if anyone knows how to reveal the invisible entries in the M1 Blizzard Pass module. It's almost impossible for these to be found with the pen and I haven't found one yet. Maybe another method to use to reveal this or a transcript of the hidden parts? _____________________________________ This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 15:59:04 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara rebirth At 01:31 PM 3/17/98 EST, you wrote: ><< Hey, I've got an idea; let's bug Ed Greenwood and ask him to do this in one oof his Wizards Three articles. What do you think? >> >Hm, and I've got the impression that Terari wouldn't take the three and their meetings very serious, and probably vice versa. Possibly very true; but I wonder if his fifty years in exile (sort of) after losing the war with Thyatis and being deposed haven't changed his outlook; especially since he's been in Karameikos a few years, which has a much less-serious outlook than Alphatia. Not so much Imperial majesty and pomp around here; we Karamekians are a plain-speaking folk who prefer action to florid phrasing. I think he's lightened up a bit. Besides, look at Dalamar; when he first joined that group he was a nasty-attitude dark elf-type who glared at both of them and was ready to start a spell-brawl. I don't think Terari would be that bad. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 16:10:07 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blizzard Pass At 02:24 PM 3/17/98 -0600, you wrote: >Greetings! >I recieved some older modules today (B1, B4, 4, CM2, CM4, MSOLO1) that helps me understand some of the recent topics on the list but I was wondering if anyone knows how to reveal the invisible entries in the M1 Blizzard Pass module. It's almost impossible for these to be found with the pen and I haven't found one yet. Maybe another method to use to reveal this or a transcript of the hidden parts? Here's an idea that might work; be careful, though, because I'm not sure of it. I haven't seen those old solos for years and years. Use a highlighter. The words are printed with an ink that is the same color as the paper, but reacts differently to the solution in the pen. The highlighter may bring them out. You might also check at the library for ways to reveal invisible ink. You may have a hard time finding one that works best, but most of them should work at least a little. Enough to let you read what's there. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 16:53:16 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara and Rules << I am working on Java software right now to create such maps. It should be ready for testing in another week or two. Mike >> That sounds interesting. I'm searching for such software as my talents as an artist are poor. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 16:53:09 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - READ THIS -- Tact and Such << I guess "uppityness" is the sort of word you just don't get taught when you're learning English as a second language. ;-) Thorf. PS - Cool word, by the way. :-) >> You got it! But, as I said, a good dictionary helps. Jamuga Khan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 16:53:13 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: [MYSTARA] - Ten reasons why Master Terari is the coolest high-level wizard of all In the last times I've read Terari's name very often. So I start a new thread, in which I explain why he is the coolest wizard in the whole TSR omniverse. AND that he his a good example what Mystara really is. 1. He is an ex-emperor. 2. He stepped down for his daughter. 3. He is a politician. 4. He is teacher. 5. He is a sports fan. 6. He has humour. 7. He has family (at least one daughter and five grandchildren). This were obviously not ten reasons, but I believe that the MML will find or remove some for a total of ten or more. Jamuga Khan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 16:53:15 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystarans Unite << I don't think this is an appropriate analogy at all...unless one is speaking strictly in terms of blatant power. >> I see similarities between the Alphatian Imperial Navy and the United States Navy. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 98 14:42:00 PST From: MichaelX Harvey Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blizzard Pass Go to www.altavista.digital.com and search for "invisible ink" (be sure to use quotes). My search turned up 1217 documents... One method uses an iodine solution (1 part iodine, 10 parts water) to reveal invisible ink, causing it to appear bluish-purple. Another method uses aqueous ammonia to reveal red ink. (Does anyone knwo what color of ink was in Blizzard Pass?) Holding the page up to a strong light might let you decipher the text, though it appears to be a less-than-ideal solution. You might also try your local craft store or variety store; they might have childrens books with invisible pens, or even invisible pen sets for craft projects. If so, you might find one that is chemically compatible with the module. Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 15:03:52 -0800 From: Dave Keyser Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blizzard Pass Galwylin wrote: >Greetings! >I recieved some older modules today (B1, B4, 4, CM2, CM4, MSOLO1) that helps me understand some of the recent topics on the list but I was wondering if anyone knows how to reveal the invisible entries in the M1 Blizzard Pass module. It's almost impossible for these to be found with the pen and I haven't found one yet. Maybe another method to use to reveal this or a transcript of the hidden parts? >_____________________________________ >This has been a Galwylin© Production >galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) >http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. Don't use a highlighter! In my experience, I have tried both that and lemon juice, with no success. The only thing I have found which works is the original pens. The chemical content is unique. I thought all of the original pens have dried out, but I was given one which was not. It is a slow process, but I am filling out all of the text and maps which are in M1 and M2. From there, I may be able to get them up on the TSR website. Dave Keyser *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 16:23:24 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ten reasons why Master Terari is the coolest high-level wizard of all At 04:53 PM 3/17/98 EST, you wrote: >In the last times I've read Terari's name very often. So I start a new thread, in which I explain why he is the coolest wizard in the whole TSR omniverse. AND that he his a good example what Mystara really is. 8-10. He's any thing we want him to be ;) One thing I especially like about him is that he's gone as far as a mortal mage can go (emperor of a empire of magic) and is finding purpose in teaching. I think that speaks very much of his character. If he attains his immortality (I'd rather he remain one of the famous mortals of Karameikos), I think magic of all types will be his area of concern making him one of the most important Immortals of Mystara. Rad could have had that position but he was too focused and secretive. Terari is more for sharing and learning together. He is a very favorite character to me and I use him when ever possible. BTW, I've already sent the request to Ed Greenwood that he make an appearence in Wizards Three. Hopefully, I get a response soon or, better yet, an article with him! _____________________________________ This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #177 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 23:31:52 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #178 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 1ddf40b6f3c7df8eb7a5c64e9c35c4eb mystara-digest Tuesday, March 17 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 178 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Re: Blizzard Pass [MYSTARA] - Fwd: FW: Undead Worlds [MYSTARA] - More about Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Ten reasons why Master Terari is the coolest high-level wizard of all Re: [MYSTARA] - ino/opinions needed [MYSTARA] - Classic D&D Preservation List... (long) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 17 Mar 1998 16:55:04 -0600 From: Alan Shutko Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Blizzard Pass >>>>>"M" == MichaelX Harvey writes: M> Go to www.altavista.digital.com and search for "invisible ink" (be M> sure to use quotes). My search turned up 1217 documents... M> One method uses an iodine solution (1 part iodine, 10 parts water) M> to reveal invisible ink, causing it to appear bluish-purple. I'd have to check my crypto book, but there are methods which can be used to reveal any invisible ink, without knowing waht it is.... - -- Alan Shutko - By consent of the corrupted IBM: I Broke Mine *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 18:31:12 EST From: Ambreville Subject: [MYSTARA] - Fwd: FW: Undead Worlds This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --part0_890177472_boundary Content-ID: <0_890177472@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Here's the other "lost" email. I don't recall seeing this one on the MML. << > -----Original Message----- >From: Bruce Heard >Sent: Thursday, March 12, 1998 1:02 PM >To: 'Mystara-L@MPGN.com' >Subject: Undead Worlds >A word about Mystara & Greyhawk >Comparing Greyhawk's situation to Mystara's for the purpose of arguing the latter's revival is logical but not entirely founded. Here are a few reasons why. >Greyhawk has been on "hiatus" longer than Mystara has, which from the point of view of Marketing folks makes it a bit more attractive. Greyhawk also has had a stronger backing from its fans - I don't say this in a demeaning way to the Mystara fans. Your support of Greyhawk is often comparable or better (if not in a better taste provided the current trend eases off some) than what I observed a few years ago with the Greyhawk crowd. Let's keep it that way, thank you. I'm just talking numbers here. Finally, Greyhawk is a far easier "product" to revive than Mystara. If does not have the baggage (for the right or wrong reasons) that Mystara had (and still has) with its link to OD&D, which has been a major problem for Mystara's growth. There is a perceived notion out there that Mystara was for the younger folk. Mystara also has far more in-depth detail compared to Greyhawk, and this is a staggering burden when trying to relaunch a campaign from scratch. The initial structure of Mystara was also based on OD&D and creates some difficulties when trying to convert it to AD&D (my assumption is that Wizards/TSR would not attempt to relaunch OD&D) - the Immortals come to my mind for example. Greyhawk was also associated to Gary Gygax, and for some this is of value. Having internal supporters helped too. Unfortunately, Mystara no longer benefits from this. I would have counted Andria Hayday, Jeff Grubb, Steve Winter as potential supporters, but they too left TSR at one point or another. Harold Johnson is the last one who is somewhat familiar with Mystara and remains at TSR, along with Monte Cook (who knows Glantri at least). All the others were freelancers. That's mighty light. >I'm not saying that Mystara could not be relaunched - but there are good reasons why Greyhawk was picked before Mystara. BTW - the decision to relaunch this grand old campaign world occurred in 1996, at a time when the experience of Mystara's AD&D adventure was still quite fresh in TSR's mind. It is possible that Wizards/TSR would decide to do something with the Mystara "product" - what and when remain the main questions. >In the mean time, the best thing to do is to try to keep the setting alive with online talk and contributions. This is pretty much what brought Greyhawk back on the first place. So I think you're all going in the right direction. Keep up the effort! >Bruce Heard >(Personal e-mail at: Ambreville @AOL.com) >> - --part0_890177472_boundary Content-ID: <0_890177472@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-za03.mx.aol.com (rly-za03.mail.aol.com [172.31.36.99]) by air-za05.mail.aol.com (v40.9) with SMTP; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 10:29:56 -0500 Received: from inc.net (beta.inc.net [204.95.160.26]) by rly-za03.mx.aol.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id KAA14652 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 10:29:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from piglet.mke.usweb.com (piglet.mke.usweb.com [204.95.175.132]) by inc.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA18216 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 08:57:54 -0600 (CST) Received: by PIGLET with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 09:32:54 -0600 Message-ID: <612636803F12D11185ED0001FA4413581948DD@PIGLET> From: Bruce Heard To: "'Ambreville@AOL.com'" Subject: FW: Undead Worlds Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 09:32:53 -0600 X-Priority: 3 Return-Receipt-To: Bruce Heard X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Stuff >-----Original Message----- >From:=09Bruce Heard >Sent:=09Thursday, March 12, 1998 1:02 PM To:=09'Mystara-L@MPGN.com' >Subject:=09Undead Worlds >A word about Mystara & Greyhawk >Comparing Greyhawk's situation to Mystara's for the purpose of arguing the latter's revival is logical but not entirely founded. Here are a few reasons why. >Greyhawk has been on "hiatus" longer than Mystara has, which from the point of view of Marketing folks makes it a bit more attractive. Greyhawk also has had a stronger backing from its fans - I don't say this in a demeaning way to the Mystara fans. Your support of Greyhawk is often comparable or better (if not in a better taste provided the current trend eases off some) than what I observed a few years ago with the Greyhawk crowd. Let's keep it that way, thank you. I'm just talking numbers here. Finally, Greyhawk is a far easier "product" to revive than Mystara. If does not have the baggage (for the right or wrong reasons) that Mystara had (and still has) with its link to OD&D, which has been a major problem for Mystara's growth. There is a perceived notion out there that Mystara was for the younger folk. Mystara also has far more in-depth detail compared to Greyhawk, and this is a staggering burden when trying to relaunch a campaign from scratch. The initial structure of Mystara was also based on OD&D and creates some difficulties when trying to convert it to AD&D (my assumption is that Wizards/TSR would not attempt to relaunch OD&D) - the Immortals come to my mind for example. Greyhawk was also associated to Gary Gygax, and for some this is of value. Having internal supporters helped too. Unfortunately, Mystara no longer benefits from this. I would have counted Andria Hayday, Jeff Grubb, Steve Winter as potential supporters, but they too left TSR at one point or another. Harold Johnson is the last one who is somewhat familiar with Mystara and remains at TSR, along with Monte Cook (who knows Glantri at least). All the others were freelancers. That's mighty light. >I'm not saying that Mystara could not be relaunched - but there are good reasons why Greyhawk was picked before Mystara. BTW - the decision to relaunch this grand old campaign world occurred in 1996, at a time when the experience of Mystara's AD&D adventure was still quite fresh in TSR's mind. It is possible that Wizards/TSR would decide to do something with the Mystara "product" - what and when remain the main questions. >In the mean time, the best thing to do is to try to keep the setting alive with online talk and contributions. This is pretty much what brought Greyhawk back on the first place. So I think you're all going in the right direction. Keep up the effort! >Bruce Heard >(Personal e-mail at: Ambreville @AOL.com) - --part0_890177472_boundary-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 18:33:04 EST From: Ambreville Subject: [MYSTARA] - More about Mystara More stuff about Mystara... From: RLaRue Kaviyd wrote: >>To begin with, trying to "out compete" Greyhawk or the Forgotten Realms would doom Mystara from the start. From what Bruce Heard said, we need to present Mystara not as an alternative of the same type to those game worlds but as a suppelementary world with vastly different characteristics. It should not be depicted in a way that competes directly with those worlds any more than Planescape, Dark Sun, or Gothic Earth were so depicted.<< >Bruce is right, but I don't think that's possible. Mystara is a medieval fantasy setting with a few twists. Yes it has Immortals. Yes it has the Savage Coast. Yes it has Hollow World (which may not be something we should try to use as a selling point ;). Regardless, it shares a basic truth with FR >and GH. It's a medieval fantasy world. This remains the catch-22 that I and other TSR managers have always run into in the past. OD&D was the primary reason why there was a Mystara on the first place. Once it enters the AD&D orbit, it loses a critical part of its uniqueness. Immortals, dragons, politics, high magic, campaign details, variety, flavor, economics, funky races (etc), these are all nice features, but I can't see how these would be enough to give Mystara an identity powerful enough to offset its challenge to compete with other AD&D campaigns. Of all of these, the Immortals offer the only truly unique feature. I doubt that WotC/TSR would revive OD&D, so for the better or the worst, Mystara is stuck with AD&D, whether it is 2nd or 3rd Edition. The idea that came up later of a non-rule specific Mystara certainly has some validity, as it would help Mystara set itself aside from the AD&D crowd. But then, this might be its undoing as well. So far, I've seen very few non-AD&D TSR products succeeding at all. It's a tough issue to deal with. ************* From: Galwylin >>(...) the creation of Bruce and I'd like to see him handle Haldemar (Have you thought about doing an article or two with the Princess Ark's crew, Bruce? Anyone want to urge Bruce to do a novel with the crew (in his spare time of course)?) Yeah, I wish! :P ************* Somebody asked about Trail Maps... The biggest problem Trail Maps had came from the difficulty in folding them. We could design them well enough, and print them economically. The folding was, however, very expensive. Rolling them up and shipping them in tubes was equally problematic due to the cost of the tubes themselves, and the fact they can't be easily packed, transported, or merchandised by retailers. Since WotC has different printers and contacts than TSR did, perhaps this isn't an issue any more. Technology might have gotten better. I also recall a passionate hatred among creatives at TSR at the idea of being assigned Trail Maps (or anything involving 3D foldups). Generally, they hate them because they all are "words" people. They can't make maps to save their lives! Much less Trail Maps. The reason why the Mystara Trail Maps worked is because I used to sit with mappers over the week ends, and work with them to get the work done. We had a great time doing them because all the information and the detail already existed. What wasn't there, we made up on the spot! None of the editorial types wanted to work that way, and of course the follow-up Trail Maps designed for other campaign worlds failed miserably. This is to say that whoever ends up working on Mystara at TSR will probably dodge that Trail Map bullet! :) Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 19:01:30 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ten reasons why Master Terari is the coolest high-level wizard of all At 04:23 PM 3/17/98 -0600, you wrote: >At 04:53 PM 3/17/98 EST, you wrote: >>In the last times I've read Terari's name very often. So I start a new thread, in which I explain why he is the coolest wizard in the whole TSR omniverse. AND that he his a good example what Mystara really is. Here here Jamuga! >8-10. He's any thing we want him to be ;) >One thing I especially like about him is that he's gone as far as a mortal mage can go (emperor of a empire of magic) and is finding purpose in teaching. I think that speaks very much of his character. I have never even thought of it that way (and here I am a teacher in real life!). I really like this idea. I hope you expand upon it in either an article or an adventure... If he attains >his immortality (I'd rather he remain one of the famous mortals of Karameikos), I think magic of all types will be his area of concern making him one of the most important Immortals of Mystara. Rad could have had that position but he was too focused and secretive. Terari is more for sharing and learning together. He is a very favorite character to me and I use him when ever possible. BTW, I've already sent the request to Ed Greenwood that he make an appearence in Wizards Three. Hopefully, I get a response soon or, better yet, an article with him! I agree with you and I think it would also be good to support you in this endeavor. Maybe we should all drop a line to Ed! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 21:12:56 EST From: Magesmiley Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - ino/opinions needed In a message dated 98-03-17 04:46:49 EST, you write: << -I have had endless problems with the "danger sense" skill on pg. 83 of the RC. When gaming I do a lot of foreshadowing out of habit "you feel a sense of dread as you lower yourself into the crypt" kinda thing so the skill is kind of redundant here. Also there is danger just about everywhere in a dungeon so a pc could get a form of sensory overload. Has anybody come up with a good and fast rule for this skill? I am seriously considering removing it altogether - the last game ended with a pc opening a small crypt (with a wight) that attacks immediatly upon opening (don't they all!) but I figured that the crypt was thick enough to hide any "danger eminations" and the attack succeeded - pissing off the pc. Is it possible to do away with any and all dangerous surprises by simply selecting this spell? This skill could make future sessions both safe and boring from now on. I worship at the shrine of game balance and find this skill to be nothing but a bother.>> I recommend doing away with it and disallowing it if you are having problems. But if the players do want to use it despite this get in a habit of occasionally rolling dice behind a screen (this tends to make the players paranoid anyway). The skill says that the DM makes the roll, only informing the players of it if its successful... essentially if you feel its justified to make the roll do it, the occasional rolling of dice now and then should help keep players in the dark about it. If multiple characters have the skill be sure to use the combining skills rule too. << -Has anyone played arena of thyatis and legions of thyatis back to back? My characters will be finishing the first one soon and am looking for a mini- adventure to fill in between them. In the second module it mentions that the two might occur some time apart. >> I have finished running the first, and the way they party ended the first one they are going to have to make a hasty exit from Thyatis. (They killed Maximatus in front of witnesses who escaped, and then torched the villa with oil). << -Once the pc's get out of thyatis I want to run X2:castle amber (circa AC1000-1). I have yet to introduce Glantri in any meaningful way (they've only adventured in karameikos and thyatis) and wondered if anyone out there had played this module in light of the gazeteers at this time. For instance - - should there be Ambers throughout Glantri? or should they all reappear with the conclusion of X2?.>> No help for you here, I have run the module in the past but the last time was prior to the Gazeteer series. One idea might be to have the party stumble across an artifact which sends them back in time somewhat (The Sapphire of Protius I posted recently might work well). <<-Just a thought: I am currently perusing my modules and have come to the conclusion that if the pc's play these modules they might save/reinstate about a 1/2 dozen or so nations or governments. I find this an outrageous short- cut in creative adventure writing that so many adventures end in a Wesly Crusher - - "I'm here to save the day" kind of deal that I felt like ranting about it. Sorry if that sounded kind of negative.>> Will just nod and agree with you here, but if the party is of 9th+ level this may not be too unreasonable. <<-Has anyone played Tortles of the Purple Sage from dungeon magazine? is it any good? what part of Mystara does it take place in? >> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 23:31:52 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #178 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 1ddf40b6f3c7df8eb7a5c64e9c35c4eb I don't have it personally, but I believe it was located on the Savage Coast (west of Slagovich). - -Mage *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 04:19:36 GMT From: cpb@gatewest.net (Chris Paul Billows) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Classic D&D Preservation List... (long) Hi all... here is the first listing of the products you supporters have identified as being owned and potentially scanned. I plan on looking for some more support from the listserves and newsgroups before I approach TSR. Many thanks for your committment. As you can see we have almost everything covered! Also... should we rename this to the Preservation Project? We are not trying to renew D&D... just ensure it does not fall into oblivion. THE CLASSIC DUNGEONS & DRAGONS RENEWAL PROJECT : What follows is TSR's product list of all Dungeons & Dragons products. Please go through this list and add your email address to those items you own, even if someone else has the item. You will be called on to help protect these fine works from falling into oblivion by having the product scanned and eventually archived on TSR's site. Thank you for your assistance in this matter. - - Chris Billows. http://www.gatewest.net/~cpb/gaming/dnd/ Chainmail(TM), 1st edition, '71 ("Guidon Games") Chainmail(TM), 2nd edition, with Fantasy Supplement, '72 ("Guidon Games") Bryan Maloney Chainmail(TM), 3rd edition, '75 D&D 1st edition, boxed, '74 Bryan Maloney D&D 1st edition, Vol. 1, Men & Magic, '74 D&D 1st edition, Vol. 2, Monsters & Treasure, '74 D&D 1st edition, Vol. 3, The Underworld & Wilderness Adventures, '74 Supplement I: Greyhawk(R), '75; 2003 Bryan Maloney Supplement II: Blackmoor(R), '75; 2004 Bryan Maloney Supplement III: Eldritch Wizardry, '76; 2005 Bryan Maloney Supplement IV: Gods, Demi-Gods & Heroes, '76; 2006 Bryan Maloney Swords & Spells, '76; 2007 D&D 2nd edition, rulebook, '78; 2001 William Altman D&D 2nd edition, Basic Set, '78; 1001 William Altman D&D 3rd edition, Basic Set, '81; 2014 William Altman Marsh Nichols Mike Harvey D&D 3rd edition, Expert Set, '81; 2015 William Altman Marsh Nichols Mike Harvey D&D 4th edition, Basic Rules, '83; 1011 Chris Billows Dion Cautrell Marsh Nichols Marco Dalmonte Tim Haney D&D 4th edition, Expert Rules, '83; 1012 Chris Billows Dion Cautrell Marsh Nichols Marco Dalmonte Tim Haney D&D 4th edition, Companion Rules, '84; 1013 Chris Billows Dion Cautrell William Altman Marsh Nichols Marco Dalmonte Tim Haney D&D 4th edition, Master Rules, '85; 1021 Chris Billows Dion Cautrell Marsh Nichols Marco Dalmonte Tim Haney D&D 4th edition, Immortals Rules, '86; 1017 Chris Billows Dion Cautrell Marsh Nichols Dave Thomas Marco Dalmonte Tim Haney Dawn of the Emperors:Thyatis and Alphatia accessory, '89; 1037 William Altman Alan Jones Marco Dalmonte Aaron Nowack Fabrizio Paoli Cristiano Perani Tim Haney Hollow World(R)campaign setting, '90; 1054 Dion Cautrell Alan Jones Dave Thomas Mike Harvey Marco Dalmonte Aaron Nowack Fabrizio Paoli Tim Haney D&D 5th edition, entry-level, '91; 1070 Alan Jones Marco Dalmonte Aaron Nowack Tim Haney D&D 5th edition Rules Cyclopedia, '91; 1071 Chris Billows Marsh Nichols Bryan Maloney Alan Jones Dave Thomas Mike Harvey Aaron Nowack Fabrizio Paoli Cristiano Perani Tim Haney The Dragon's Den adventure pack, '92; 1073 Alan Jones The Goblin's Lair adventure pack, '92; 1076 The Haunted Tower adventure pack, '92; 1081 Aaron Nowack Wrath of the Immortals accessory, '92; 1082 Dion Cautrell Alan Jones Marco Dalmonte Aaron Nowack Fabrizio Paoli Cristiano Perani Tim Haney Champions of Mystara: Heroes of the Princess Ark campaign expansion, '93; 1094 Dion Cautrell Alan Jones Dave Thomas Marco Dalmonte Aaron Nowack Fabrizio Paoli Tim Haney D&D 6th edition, Classic, '94; 1106 accessories & adventures Dungeon Geomorphs, Set One: Basic Dungeon, '76; 1002 & 9004 Mike Harvey Dungeon Geomorphs, Set Two: Caves & Caverns, '77; 9005 Dungeon Geomorphs, Set Three: Lower Dungeons, '77; 9006 Dungeon Geomorphs, Sets One to Three, '81; 9048 Outdoor Geomorphs, Set One: Walled City, '77 Monster & Treasure Assortment, Set One: Dungeon Levels One to Three, '77 Monster & Treasure Assortment, Set Two: Dungeon Levels Four to Six, '77 Monster & Treasure Assortment, Set Three: Dungeon Levels Seven to Nine, '78 Monster & Treasure Assortment, Sets One to Three: Levels One to Nine, '80; 9047 Character Record Sheets (pad), '77 Basic Character Record Sheets (booklet), '80; 9037 AC1, Shady Dragon Inn, '83; 9100 Marsh Nichols AC2, D&D Combat Shield/The Treasure of the Hideous One, '84; 9099 AC3, Dragon Tiles I/The Kidnapping of Princess Arelina, '84; 9121 Dion Cautrell Tim Haney AC4, The Book of Marvelous Magic, '85; 9116 AC5, Dragon Tiles II/The Revenge of Rusak, '85; 9145 AC6, Player Character Sheets, '85; 9037 AC7, Master Player Screen/The Spindle, '85; 9156 AC9, Creature Catalogue, '86; 9173 AC10, Bestiary of Dragons and Giants, '87; 9211 Dion Cautrell Fabrizio Paoli AC11, The Book of Wondrous Inventions, '87; 9220 Marco Dalmonte Fabrizio Paoli B1, In Search of the Unknown, '79; /rev. '81; 9023 William Altman B2, The Keep On the Borderlands, '81; 9034 Dion Cautrell William Altman Alan Jones Dave Thomas Mike Harvey Tim Haney B3, Palace of the Silver Princess, '81; 9044 William Altman Tim Haney B4, The Lost City, '82; 9049 Marsh Nichols B5, Horror on the Hill, '83; 9078 William Altman B6, The Veiled Society, '84; 9086 Tim Haney B7, Rahasia, '84; 9115 William Altman Tim Haney B8, Journey to the Rock, '84; 9106 Marsh Nichols B9, Castle Caldwell and Beyond, '85; 9143 B1-9, In Search ofAdventure, '87; 9190 B10, Night's Dark Terror, '86; 9149 Tim Haney B11, King's Festival, '89; 9260 Tim Haney B12, Queen's Harvest, '89; 9261 Tim Haney B-Solo, Ghost of Lion Castle, '84; 9097 Tim Haney CM1, Test of the Warlords, '84; 9117 William Altman Alan Jones Marco Dalmonte CM2, Death's Ride, '84; 9118 William Altman Alan Jones CM3, Sabre River, '84; 9119 Dion Cautrell William Altman CM4, Earthshaker, '85; 9128 William Altman Marco Dalmonte CM5, Mystery of the Snow Pearls, '85; 9154 CM6, Where Chaos Reigns, '85; 9158 Marco Dalmonte CM7, The Tree of Life, '86; 9166 Marco Dalmonte Fabrizio Paoli Tim Haney CM8, The Endless Stair, '87; 9192 CM9, Legacy of Blood, '87; 9210 Fabrizio Paoli DA1, Adventures in Blackmoor, '86; 9172 DA2, Temple of the Frog, '86; 9175 William Altman Marsh Nichols DA3, City of the Gods, '87; 9191 William Altman DA4, Duchy of Tenh, '87; 9205 Dion Cautrell Fabrizio Paoli DDA1, Arena of Thyatis, '90; 9284 Fabrizio Paoli Tim Haney DDA2, Legions of Thyatis, '90; 9296 Alan Jones Fabrizio Paoli Tim Haney DDA3, Eye of Traldar, '91; 9271 Tim Haney DDA4, The Dymrak Dread, '91; 9272 Alan Jones Tim Haney DDREF1, D&D Character Record Sheets, '91; 9308 DMR1, DM(TM) Screen/Escape From Thunder Rift, '93; 9437 Alan Jones Tim Haney DMR2, Creature Catalog, '93; 9438 Dion Cautrell Alan Jones Marco Dalmonte Aaron Nowack Fabrizio Paoli Tim Haney Entry 1, Quest for the Silver Sword, '92; 9342 Alan Jones Entry 2,Assault on Raven's Ruin, '92; 9350 Entry 3, Thunder Rift, '92; 9357 Alan Jones Aaron Nowack Tim Haney Entry 4, Sword & Shield, '92; 9387 Alan Jones Entry 5, Character & Monster Assortment, '92; 9363 Entry 6, The Knight of Newts, '93; 9434 Entry 7, Rage of the Rakasta, '93; 9435 Entry 8, In the Phantom's Wake, '93; 9436 GAZ1, The Grand Duchy of Karameikos, '87; 9193 Marco Dalmonte Tim Haney GAZ2, The Emirates of Ylaruam, '87; 9194 Dion Cautrell William Altman Alan Jones Marco Dalmonte Fabrizio Paoli Tim Haney GAZ3, The Principalities of Glantri, '87; 9208 Marco Dalmonte Tim Haney GAZ4, The Kingdom of Ierendi, '87; 9215 Dion Cautrell Marco Dalmonte Fabrizio Paoli Tim Haney GAZ5, The Elves of Alfheim, '88; 9223 Marco Dalmonte Tim Haney GAZ6, The Dwarves of Rockhome, '88; 9227 Dion Cautrell Alan Jones Marco Dalmonte Fabrizio Paoli Tim Haney GAZ7, The Northern Reaches, '88; 9230 Dion Cautrell Marsh Nichols Alan Jones Marco Dalmonte Fabrizio Paoli Tim Haney GAZ8, The Five Shires, '88; 9232 Marco Dalmonte Fabrizio Paoli Tim Haney GAZ9, The Minrothad Guilds, '88; 9236 Marco Dalmonte Tim Haney GAZ10, The Orcs of Thar, '88; 9241 Alan Jones Marco Dalmonte Fabrizio Paoli Tim Haney GAZ11, The Republic of Darokin, '89;9250 Dion Cautrell Alan Jones Marco Dalmonte Fabrizio Paoli Tim Haney GAZ12, The Golden Khan of Ethengar, '89;9246 Dion Cautrell Alan Jones Marco Dalmonte Fabrizio Paoli Tim Haney GAZ13, The Shadow Elves, '90; 9287 Dion Cautrell Alan Jones Marco Dalmonte Fabrizio Paoli Tim Haney GAZ14, The Atruaghin Clans, '91; 9306 Dion Cautrell Alan Jones Marco Dalmonte Fabrizio Paoli Tim Haney HWA1, Nightwail, '90; 9303 Alan Jones Fabrizio Paoli HWA2, Nightrage, '90; 9310 Alan Jones Fabrizio Paoli HWA3, Nightstorm, '91; 9311 Dion Cautrell Alan Jones Marco Dalmonte Aaron Nowack Fabrizio Paoli HWQ1, The Milenian Scepter, '92; 9378 Alan Jones Fabrizio Paoli HWR1, Sons ofAzca, '91; 9332 Alan Jones Marco Dalmonte Fabrizio Paoli Tim Haney HWR2, Kingdom of Nithia, '91; 9339 Alan Jones Marco Dalmonte Fabrizio Paoli Tim Haney HWR3, The Milenian Empire, '92; 9384 Alan Jones Marco Dalmonte Fabrizio Paoli Tim Haney IM1, The Immortal Storm, '86; 9171 Marco Dalmonte Tim Haney IM2, The Wrath of Olympus, '87; 9189 IM3, The Best of Intentions, '87; 9207 The Jade Hare, '92; 9259 M1 solo, Blizzard Pass, '83; 9067 M2 solo, Maze of the Riddling Minotaurs, '83; 9060 M1, Into the Maelstrom, '85; 9159 Fabrizio Paoli Tim Haney M2, Vengeance ofAlphaks, '86; 9148 Dion Cautrell Fabrizio Paoli M3, Twilight Calling, '86; 9174 Marco Dalmonte M4, Five Coins for a Kingdom, '87; 9204 M5, Talons of Night, '87; 9214 Marco Dalmonte Fabrizio Paoli O1, The Gem and the Staff, '83; 9050 Marco Dalmonte Tim Haney O2, Blade of Vengeance, '84; 9108 Marco Dalmonte PC1, Creature Crucible: Tall Tales of the Wee Folk, 89; 9254 Chris Billows Marco Dalmonte Fabrizio Paoli Tim Haney PC2, Creature Crucible: Top Ballista, 89; 9255 Chris Billows Marco Dalmonte Fabrizio Paoli Tim Haney PC3, Creature Crucible: The Sea People, '90; 9277 Chris Billows Marco Dalmonte Aaron Nowack Fabrizio Paoli Tim Haney PC4, Creature Crucible: Night Howlers, '92; 9368 Chris Billows Marco Dalmonte Fabrizio Paoli Tim Haney RPGA1, Rahasia, '83; 6064 RPGA2, The Black Opal Eye, '83; 6065 X1, The Isle of Dread, '81/rev. '83; 9043 Chris Billows William Altman Marsh Nichols Alan Jones Dave Thomas Marco Dalmonte Tim Haney X2, Castle Amber, '81; 9051 Tim Haney X3, Curse of Xanathon, '82; 9056 Tim Haney X4, Master of the Desert Nomads, '83; 9068 William Altman Marsh Nichols X5, Temple of Death, '83; 9069 Dion Cautrell William Altman Marsh Nichols Marco Dalmonte X6, Quagmire, '84; 9081 Tim Haney X7, War Rafts of Kron, '84; 9079 Tim Haney X8, Drums on Fire Mountain, '84; 9127 Tim Haney X9, The Savage Coast, '85; 9129 Tim Haney X10, Red Arrow, Black Shield, '85; 9160 Dion Cautrell Fabrizio Paoli X11, Saga of the Shadow Lord, '86; 9165 William Altman Marco Dalmonte Tim Haney X12, Skarda's Mirror, '87; 9188 Tim Haney X13, Crown ofAncient Glory, '87; 9218 Tim Haney XL1, Quest for the Heartstone, '84; 9114 XSolo1, Lathan's Gold, '84; 9082 Tim Haney XSolo2, Thunderdelve Mountain, '85; 9157 __________________________________ | |\ | Chris Billows | | | Check out my Gaming Memoirs | | | www.gatewest.net/~cpb/gaming/ | | |_________________________________| | \_________________________________\| *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #178 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message.