mystara-digest Wednesday, April 1 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 203 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Integrating Mystara into Planescape Cosmology Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] GURPS Monsters Re: Re(2): [MYSTARA] - Map of MYSTARA/GreyHawk/Faerun Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Re: [MYSTARA] - Size of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Maps and a Map-Based Index of Mystara Products Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Maps and a Map-Based Index of Mystara Products [MYSTARA] - Red Steel [MYSTARA] - Emirates of Ylaruam Re: [MYSTARA] - Integrating Mystara into Planescape Cosmology [MYSTARA] - Old Alphatia and The Galactic Federation Locations [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Almanac official announcement Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Almanac official announcement [MYSTARA] - MBirthright Thaumont 1005 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:57:32 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Integrating Mystara into Planescape Cosmology At 07:06 AM 3/31/98 EST, you wrote: ><< >>Just one question. If these all are subject to the same 'physics' as MMMystara, why not place them in the same dimension? The Alphatians, d'Ambrevilles, McGregors from another planet; the Beagle from another time; the Old Ones original gods. Does that screw with Mystara lore too much? I'm tired and don't feel like looking all that up Basically they all are or aren't depending on how you have your multiverse set up. If Mystara resides in a Crystal Sphere then you may want a more restricted stellar environment. If such is the case then you have to remove the Federation and the Alphatian homeworld. However, if Mystara is used with the original Immortals set, then the universe is certainly big enough (at infinite) to contain all of the above. As far as canon goes on the issue: it has been changed so many times that you can pretty much come up with your own explanation. Personally I like the Federation, and the Alphatians being in the very same universe. As for Laterre, since it is an "alternate" world, I see it as existing in another reality(dimension). I do not use the term "dimension" because that word has very specific meaning in the old Immortal's set. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 15:10:15 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] GURPS Monsters On Sat, 28 Mar 1998, Leroy Van Camp III wrote: >Håvard, >Although it has taken me a while to say so, I just wanted to let you know I liked your GURPS races and monsters posts, and will be saving those for future reference. Although my GURPS version of some of the races are a bit different, I think you did a good job. Thanks! I was wondering if anyone actually read that. It occured to me that I should have sent shorter emails. Are your races different in any interesting ways? I have based mine more upon my own thoughts about what the races should be like, rather than adapting xD&D rules or using whats written in GURPS sourcebooks. I had some problems though. Age: lifespans seem to be very expensive. Especially for elves. GURPS fantasy give them the Ageless advantages, but I dont think that would fit for Mystara elves. 3 levels of extended lifespan and a level of early maturity could work but this will suck points. Hin Denial ability: Still not quite happy with giving them an innate counterspell ability to all spells. >Thanks for your efforts, and I hope to see more on the list in the future! I´ll do my best. Thanks for the positive feedback! Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 15:24:04 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: Re(2): [MYSTARA] - Map of MYSTARA/GreyHawk/Faerun On Sun, 29 Mar 1998, Kaviyd wrote: >In a message dated 98-03-29 03:50:14 EST, JamugaKhan@aol.com writes: >>I don't like it and I would prefer to place Oerth or Faerun in the sssame solar system as Mystara. >Let's see -- same solar system but separate planets? That could be a bit awkward for my tastes -- unless spelljamming is a lost art on all three planets. It could be done. It could have some concequences for the worlds if you want them to have different positions from the sun. Ofcourse those differences could be ignored, or you can incorporate them to make the settings more interesting. Spelljamming doesn´t strike me as too common on either Oerth or Toril, so I dont see that as too much of a problem. If you want it to be more common, then you will just have to alter the settings slightly. However, if you want a campaign about the exploration of Mystaraspace I´m sure you(whoever is reading this) can invent a lot more interesting and exotic settings than FR/Greyhawk. >But haven't all three solar systems been detailed already? Two in Spelljammer supplements and one (Mystara's) in the gold box Immortals' game. Yes they have. Not in too much detail though. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 15:26:52 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian On Sun, 29 Mar 1998, Kaviyd wrote: >Here is one possibility -- maybe all four elements did have their proponents among the Alphatians. However, the Earth Mages were the weakest and were destroyed very early in the civil war on Old Alphatia -- after all, the destruction of Old Alphatia would not have been possible if Earth Magic remained strong. >The Water Mages were the next weakest, but they managed to lay low during the war. Eventually they were the only ones left in Old Alphatia, after the Air and Fire Mages left or were banished. Sounds reasonable to me. Want to make a timeline? Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 16:03:30 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Size of Mystara On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, George Valencia wrote: On the Alfheim/Desert Garden: >Why not just have the elves try to divert water from the Dwarfgate Mts. to the Canolbarth forest? Sounds interesting. This could lead to a better relationship between elves and dwarves. I think thats cool. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 12:08:06 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Maps and a Map-Based Index of Mystara Products << Patriarch wrote: >Soon Tim ( a good friend of mine, not on the MML, but he can read the posts off our site) will have all of the known world and more up on a site. >Here is a map of Karameikos. >http://CWSpot.com/mystara/tinman/karameikos.gif It definately looks nice, except for some of the labels. >> Yes it looks nice, indeed, but I don't believe that it would be very useful, at least not for the work of a DM. This is of course IMO, but I want a good old-styled hex map for mastering. Sorry, no insult intended. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 12:38:59 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Maps and a Map-Based Index of Mystara Products At 12:08 PM 3/31/98 EST, you wrote: ><< Patriarch wrote: >>Soon Tim ( a good friend of mine, not on the MML, but he can read the posts off our site) will have all of the known world and more up on a site. >>Here is a map of Karameikos. >>http://CWSpot.com/mystara/tinman/karameikos.gif >It definately looks nice, except for some of the labels. >> >Yes it looks nice, indeed, but I don't believe that it would be very useful, at least not for the work of a DM. This is of course IMO, but I want a good old-styled hex map for mastering. Sorry, no insult intended. The use, Mr. Khan, comes in having different styles of maps. Also, having a printed copy or a software copy means you can make changes to the itself. For instance, if Black Eagle ends up conquering a large portion of the duchy. What then? Well, with your own map you can redraw the borders. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 16:03:00 EST From: AksnJksn Subject: [MYSTARA] - Red Steel It is my understanding that Red Steel is a partof the Mystara Campaign Setting. I am currently DMing a campaign there and can fing ZERO support. ie modules, manuals, etc... Any help would be appreciated. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 23:26:31 -0300 From: edu@giga.com.ar Subject: [MYSTARA] - Emirates of Ylaruam I read all the Gaz and I saw it VERY intresting but I don't understand something. What's Barimoor's underground complex? I know the meaning but not why is a underground complex. Also I don't understand the Society and the Religion. Can anybody help me? Thanks, Jonathan Leibiusky edu@giga.com.ar (soon I'll have a home page of D&D and Mystara in spanish). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 22:20:34 EST From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Integrating Mystara into Planescape Cosmology >I think that according to WotI, the alphatians are from an other dimension. However earlier material state that they are from Mystaras dimension. I prefer the latter. Where does it state that Alphatia is from another dimention in WOTI? I'm almost certain they were from an alt. prime plane. >>D'Ambervilles and McGregors are from Laterre which is another dimension in which there is only one way to really travel back and forth from. >WotI states that laterre is in the Dimension of Myth, but IMO that doesn´t really fit. Doesn't really fit what? I'm confused as to what you mean here.... >>It'salso >>outside of the multiverse which is one reason why the old ones have paid such >>close attention to them. >Aren´t all Dimensions outside the mutiverse? (Using WotI definition of Dimensions) Yes they are...... i don't see your point though.... I stated that the Old Ones have paid a lot of attention to the D'Ambervilles because their origin lies in another dimension... >>The Beagle is also from another dimension. However, it is impossible to travel to that dimension.. >Impossible? >Anyway I´m one of those who think the Beagle could be from the Mystara universe. I don't have the exact post, but Criptonite posted a canonical published excerpt from.....a source i can't remember right now.....in which it distinctly told of how the Beagle was from another dimension. Also, the freak accident was playing on such an improbable chance that there would never be a way for it to be duplicated or reversed or anything of that matter. >>..and the Old Ones are much >>higher beings then gods or immortals. They created the entire multiverse as an >>experimental project, meaning....they created gods and immortals and everything else in the multiverse for that matter. >Speculations. Their existance has never been proven, even though the end of WotI seens to suggest this rather strongly. The GM has the final word ofcourse. Actually, Thier existence has been proven in the game mechanics in WOTI in which they explained the process in obtaining the status of an Old One. The Old Ones were also existent in the MoA module. The Old One which appeared in front of Rad and Ixion was in the WOTI module as well. So, their existance has been proven on multiple occasions. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 00:51:21 -0700 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Old Alphatia and The Galactic Federation Locations Inconu meandered feckelssly... Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 04:36:08 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #203 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: ea8e5083ac60c9d1611a20fb979114d7 >>I think that according to WotI, the alphatians are from an other dimension. However earlier material state that they are from Mystaras dimension. I prefer the latter. >Where does it state that Alphatia is from another dimention in WOTI? I'm almost certain they were from an alt. prime plane. Page 124. This is a change from previous sources. M1 Into the Maelstrom states Old Alphatia is in another part of the galaxy. This is one of those "pick what you like" situations, and when I wrote the article that spurred this conversation I chose the dimensional angle. >I don't have the exact post, but Criptonite posted a canonical published excerpt from.....a source i can't remember right now .....in which it distinctly told of how the Beagle was from another dimension. DA3 City of the Gods puts the Galactic Federation in the same universe as Mystara. This was changed in WotI. Again, take your oick. No real right or worng here. Since I use the PS multiverse, the GF in a crystal sphere makes little sense, so I go the dimension route. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com ICQ #4253672 "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 23:54:02 PST From: "Joshuan Gallidox Publishing" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Almanac official announcement Dear Reader I am really sorry to bring to you bad news, but you should be informed that Joshuan Gallidox Publishing has recently been devastated by fire. Fortunately nobody was injured, but material damages were severe. Not only was our wonderful printing machine destroyed, all reports sent by our many correspondents from all over and within the world for the past year have been burned to the ashes. As a consequence, as you probably have understood by now, there will be no release of the Mystaran Almanac this year. I sincerely apologize for this to all Mystarans who buy the most widespread publication every year or enjoy consulting it at their local library. The cause of the fire is still undetermined, and worthy heroes hired by Joshuan Gallidox Publishing are already investigating to discover whether this was an accident or an arson. Anyone willing to share information with them should be thanked in advance. I wonder who would be willing to prevent the publication of the Mystaran Almanac. I personnaly tend to favor the theory of the arson ordered by a powerful behind the scene someone, who would obviously have some interest in not seeing some event become widespread. Previous editions of the almanac have helped spread news of important discoveries like the existence of the Hollow World and many similarly world-shaking news. That person is certainly willing to keep some secret hidden, and thought that his odious, criminal act would help him achieve just that. Belzamith Fingertackles, Co-Editor Mystaran Almanac Mirros, Karameikos Flaurmont 1st, AC 1016 _________________________________ Joshuan Gallidox Publishing publisher of the Mystaran Almanac ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 02:52:48 -0600 From: "Galwylin" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Almanac official announcement From: Joshuan Gallidox Publishing >I am really sorry to bring to you bad news, but you should be informed that Joshuan Gallidox Publishing has recently been devastated by fire. That's terrible! >Flaurmont 1st, AC 1016 I promise to help you when the citizens rise up to hang you ;> - --- Galwylin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 12:35:49 +0300 (EET DST) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: [MYSTARA] - MBirthright Thaumont 1005 Latest news from my PBeM... The Poor Wizard's Newsletter Southeastern Mystara Thyatis The Emperor was on vacation last month, apparently in the Pearl Islands, so nothing much has been happening. Karameikos Duke Stefan apparently had a hard time negotiating a deal with the Church of Traladara, as after the meeting he has not made a public appearance for several weeks. Minrothad Guildmaster Oran Meditor has announced that his court will no longer hold regular festivities and other expensive events. Despite some grumbling and complaining by the courtiers, the measure was passed. The Guildmaster also announced the opening of several sea trade routes this month. Currently, all trade routes are serviced by the Meditor Guild and their purpose is to exchange goods between the various islands of Minrothad. It is widely thought that the Guildmaster intends to open trade relations with foreign nations in the near future. Ylaruam Sultan Mohammed al-Kalim has increased spending in the emirates of Dythestenia and Nithia, providing better law enforcement in those provinces. He has also started to build a grand palace in his capital city. Hattias Our reporters have found out that the Count of Hattias has invested the control of the Death Storm of Thanatos to his lieutenant, high priest Fritz Hawerbaum. It will certainly allow the Count to utilize the temple more efficiently - which does not bode well for the neighboring nations. Southwestern Mystara Sind/Hule The Master of Hule has announced the investiture of his source holdings to the Black Rajah of Jaibul, one of his lieutenants. This event spells doom for all freedom fighters in Sind, for the Black Rajah is rumored to be a mighty wizard who can hold his own even to the Princes of Glantri. The new owner of the sources will be able to utilize them much more efficiently than the Master. Ierendi Leethila Barburgh, an ambassador from Ierendi, has gained the cooperation of the Five Shires in both trade and military matters. Apparently, the hin were quite impressed when Leethila showed up in the Shireton port with several ships! In any case, Ierendi and Five Shires have opened trade relations, as well as signed a military alliance. King Palfrit has also announced his intention to improve the economic status of his kingdom by creating a new trading post on Safari Isle. The trading post is expected to bring good profits, because Safari isle is a popular visitor site. Atruaghin Clans Nothing of note was heard from this area. Central Mystara Darokin More new trade routes were announced last month by various merchant houses of Darokin. Also Chancellor Corwyn Mauntea has signed a trade alliance with Five Shires and Bear Clan of Atruaghin. Alfheim King Doriath was still not available for comment and his advisors said he was conducting important research. Rockhome King Everast has announced the formation of alliances with the nations of Ethengar and Soderfjord. This action creates a fairly strong block in the northeastern Mystara that should give pause to any hostile nations. Five Shires Warleader Jaervosz Dustyboots has ordered the expansion of Rollstone Keep in Eastshire. The small tower will be expanded into a larger fort, in order to house more soldiers and to ensure the security of the eastern border. Also, the Warleader has introduced his newest lieutenant, the well-known hin adventurer Joam Astlar, who will likely be put in charge of several army units. Northeastern Mystara Heldann The Temple of Vanya sent a clear message last month that all trade in Heldann must be regulated by the temple. High Cleric Wulf von Klagendorf created several trade routes, both land and sea, within his realm. Apparently, hopes are low for other guilders seeking to do trade in that northern realm. One can only wonder why priests of an Immortal of conquest try to get their fingers into monetary pursuits. Ethengar Apparently, Moglai Khan had some more trouble in the Land of Black Sand, as no word has been heard of him in a while. Shamans say, however, that the Great Khan has been communing with the Immortals and asking for guidance. Meanwhile, a large horde of undead has suddenly appeared in Kiyats. It is not yet known who controls it, but they look like big trouble. The Northern Reaches Warleader Ragnar the Stout has sent his representatives to discuss with other jarls in the area of Haltford the possibility of a united Soderfjord, with him as its king. After some debate (which involved drinking much mead), most jarls (those who hadn't passed out yet) voted against the proposal, saying that they "don't need no-one telling them what to do". King Harald of Vestland has founded a small trading company in his capital city, Norrvik in Sveamark. He said its purpose was to provide better welfare to his people and to let other nations see that Vestland intends to become a modern, civilized state. King Hord Dark-Eye of Ostland was on holiday last month. Apparently, it involved sailing to far-off shores, looting and pillaging the coastal villages, bashing people on the head, and drinking lots of alcohol afterwards. At least it meant a break for Ostland's government officials (that is, thugs paid by the king to rob people under the guise of "collecting taxes"). Northwestern Mystara Glantri Once again, Grand Master Etienne d'Ambreville and Prince Brannart McGregor clashed on a political level. This fight has not been successful for McGregor, who lost some control of his sources and law enforcement ability. On the other hand, some undead under McGregor's control have occupied the province of Klantyre, destroying the large temple of Rad in the town of Glenmoorloch. Broken Lands Ethengarian travellers reported that increasingly more orcish guards have been seen in Hobgobland. It appears that King Thar is tightening his grip on that rebellious province. Shadow Elves Nothing has been heard of the mysterious Shadow Elves. One wonders if they are merely a myth created by the elves of Alfheim. Advertisements and Announcements This section is reserved for various announcements that regents wish to make. Any regent can get his announcement posted to everyone. Chandra ul Nervi, former Rajadhiraja of Sind, sends a plea for help: "Send all aid you can, for if I should fall, the rest of the world will be next." Master of Hule, conqueror of Sind, sends a message to all regents: "Should any of you desire to submit to me as my vassals, your lives and property will be spared. All others will be utterly destroyed. Anyone giving any aid to the puny rebels within my country will be marked as the first to die." Annual Ratings In Thaumont each year, we will be conducting an extensive research into the relative strength of various realms, temples, guild networks, and wizards. They will be rated mostly according to their domain power and military strength, and to a lesser extent the strength of their allies and the extravagance of their courts. We will then present the three most powerful domains in each category. Below are the results for the end of Thaumont, 1005 AC. Most Powerful Countries (counting all factors) 1.Thyatis, due to their huge population and large army. 2.Darokin - although their own power is not that big, they have plenty of allies. 3.Sind, also due to their large population and notable army. Runner-up: Minrothad Realms With Most Personal Power (counting only domain strength) 1.Thyatis 2.Sind 3.Minrothad Runner-up: Darokin Most Militaristic Realms 1.Hattias 2.Thyatis 3.Sind Runner-up: Darokin Most Popular Temples 1.Temples of Rad, largely due to the fact that it's run by one of the most influential regents. How ironic that it's not really a religious organization... 2.Holy Temple of Bozdogan, again due to the power of its regent. 3.Church of Minrothad, largely thanks to its alliance with the powerful Meditor Guild. Runner-up: Church of Darokin Temples With Most Personal Power 1.Temples of Rad 2.Church of Darokin 3.Radiant Temple of Rafiel Runner-up: Holy Temple of Bozdogan Most Influential Guild Networks 1.Mauntea House, due to its large number of allies. 2.Meditor Guild, due to its large reach. 3.Umbarth House, also due to its large reach. Runner-up: Linton House. Guild Networks With Most Personal Power 1.Meditor Guild 2.Umbarth House 3.Mauntea House Runner-up: Merchants' Consortium Most Influential Wizards 1.Etienne d'Ambreville, due to his overall power. 2.Magist Demetrion, somewhat due to his alliance with Thyatis. 3.Doriath of Alfheim, mostly because of the powerful magic sources in Alfheim. Runner-up: Oran Meditor Most Personally Powerful Wizards 1.Doriath of Alfheim 2.Saru the Serpent 3.Magist Demetrion Runner-up: Doge Kol, believe it or not Most Skilled Wizards This section isn't likely to change a lot, as the power of most archmages is pretty established. Unless one of them dies, this list will likely remain the same. 1.Etienne d'Ambreville. No other archmage comes even close to the Grand Master's level of power. 2.Barimoor. The mysterious wizard of Ylaruam seems mighty indeed. 3.This place is tied between Black Rajah, Brannart McGregor, Jaime Honeycreeper, and Demetrion of Thyatis. ****************************************** Aleksei Andrievski k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi aka Solmyr, the Archmage of the Azure Star Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #203 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Thursday, April 2 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 204 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Red Steel Re: [MYSTARA] - Integrating Mystara into Planescape Cosmology Re: [MYSTARA] - Size of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Integrating Mystara into Planescape Cosmology Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Maps and a Map-Based Index of Mystara Products Re: [MYSTARA] - The Existence of the Old Ones Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Almanac official announcement Re: [MYSTARA] - The Existence of the Old Ones Re: [MYSTARA] - The Existence of the Old Ones Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Maps and a Map-Based Index of Mystara Products Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Maps and a Map-Based Index of Mystara Products Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Maps and a Map-Based Index of Mystara Products [MYSTARA] - Can anybody read this mail? Re: [MYSTARA] - Red Steel Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Almanac official announcement [MYSTARA] - Emirates of Ylaruam (Second E-mail) Re: [MYSTARA] - CC maps Re: [MYSTARA] - Red Steel [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Almanac official announcement Re: [MYSTARA] - CC maps Re: [MYSTARA] - Integrating Mystara into Planescape Cosmology [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Elven weather and Ierendi -(was: Size of Mystara) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 13:50:11 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Red Steel On Tue, 31 Mar 1998, AksnJksn wrote: >It is my understanding that Red Steel is a partof the Mystara Campaign Setting. I am currently DMing a campaign there and can fing ZERO support. ie modules, manuals, etc... Any help would be appreciated. Have you checked TSRs Red Steel website? Also, you could find the novel The Black Vessel interesting. If you want adventure ideas etc, you could post some info about your campaign in here and someone might be able to give you some advice. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 13:58:52 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Integrating Mystara into Planescape Cosmology On Tue, 31 Mar 1998, Inconu wrote: >>WotI states that laterre is in the Dimension of Myth, but IMO that doesn´t really fit. >Doesn't really fit what? I'm confused as to what you mean here.... Well, references to Laterre seem to indicate that this is a rather dark and sinister place. The dimension of Myth does not give me associations like that. Maybe its just me, but they just "feel" like two different places. >>>It'salso >>>outside of the multiverse which is one reason why the old ones have paid ssuch >>>close attention to them. >>Aren´t all Dimensions outside the mutiverse? (Using WotI definition of Dimensions) >Yes they are...... i don't see your point though.... I stated that the Old Ones have paid a lot of attention to the D'Ambervilles because their origin lies in another dimension... just nitpicking. Sorry. >>>The Beagle is also from another dimension. However, it is impossible to travel to that dimension.. >>Impossible? >>Anyway I´m one of those who think the Beagle could be from the Mystara universe. >I don't have the exact post, but Criptonite posted a canonical published excerpt from.....a source i can't remember right now.....in which it distinctly told of how the Beagle was from another dimension. Also, the freak accident was playing on such an improbable chance that there would never be a way for it to be duplicated or reversed or anything of that matter. As Leroy said, its one of those pick what you like things. >>>..and the Old Ones are much >>>higher beings then gods or immortals. They created the entire multiverse aas an >>>experimental project, meaning....they created gods and immortals and everything else in the multiverse for that matter. >>Speculations. Their existance has never been proven, even though the end of WotI seens to suggest this rather strongly. The GM has the final word ofcourse. >Actually, Thier existence has been proven in the game mechanics in WOTI in which they explained the process in obtaining the status of an Old One. The Old Ones were also existent in the MoA module. The Old One which appeared in front of Rad and Ixion was in the WOTI module as well. So, their existance has been proven on multiple occasions. Maybe this comment isn´t really adding much to the conversation but: There are only indications that the Old Ones exist. Even though there has been immortals who have gained hierarch status twice, noone knows what has happened to them. AND noone really knows who the creature that appeared in WotI was. Personally I´d like to keep it that way. What is a fact is that there are things going on that the Immortals don´t understand. Which is interesting. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 14:22:05 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Size of Mystara On Mon, 30 Mar 1998, Lille My wrote: >At 18:35 27-03-98 +0100, Håvard wrote: >>I was thinking that they could take the water from somewhere in the sea of Dread. Ofcourse this could affect the Island Kingdoms.. Any thoughts? >I guess it would dry out some of the islands, leaving them a bit more dry, but it depends on how they intend to take the water. If the elves increase the heat in the area they might create that weather phenomena called El Nino (or something), a phenomena that occurs every 3 or 7 years and greatly affects local enviroment with storms, flood and droughts. A heat increase might turn the Ierendi kingdoms more tropical, but also dry out some of the jungles. Perhaps ancient lizard men once again will emerge with the increased temperatures? Interesting ideas. I woul think they´d mailnly create winds that would steal rainclouds, but raising the temperature might not be such a bad idea...I dont really like Ierendi the way it is so changing it sounds like a good idea...Wonder if the Lizardmen are good sailors... >>Seen the Kingdom2 yet by the way? >Oh yes I have. It's quite interesting. It is a close follow up on the first Kingdom, but it changes its style somewhat making it different. Won't say too much. Seen it and I loved it :) BTW: rumours are that you are on the Nephilim digest. (Big Brother can see you) Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 07:55:08 EST From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Integrating Mystara into Planescape Cosmology >Well, references to Laterre seem to indicate that this is a rather dark and sinister place. The dimension of Myth does not give me associations like that. Maybe its just me, but they just "feel" like two different places. I've never heard of references to Laterre like that..... It seems to resemble old France in my opinion. It seems like we may be just reading differents sources on most of the issues here.. >As Leroy said, its one of those pick what you like things. Agreed. >Maybe this comment isn´t really adding much to the conversation but: There are only indications that the Old Ones exist. Even though there has been immortals who have gained hierarch status twice, noone knows what has happened to them. AND noone really knows who the creature that appeared in WotI was. Personally I´d like to keep it that way. You do have the right to personally want to keep it that way as to it's in your campaign, but there have been many references to the Old Ones, and in WOTI it states the process of attaining that status. It then goes on to say that if a PC ever is able to reach Old One status, he has essentially beaten the game. Which i believe is just an ammusing way to illustrate how low the chances are of obtaining it. There's nothing wrong with keeping the Old Ones a mystery to the Immortals or just discounting the Old Ones completely in your campaign, but TSR did give more than just indications of thier existence. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 08:31:33 EST From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Maps and a Map-Based Index of Mystara Products In a message dated 98-03-31 12:39:05 EST, you write: >Soon Tim ( a good friend of mine, not on the MML, but he can read the posts off our site) will have all of the known world and more up on a site. >Here is a map of Karameikos. >http://CWSpot.com/mystara/tinman/karameikos.gif Well, finally checked out the map. Looks good. The clarity and crispness really impressed me. I have done a few maps using bitmaps and they do leave some room for improvement. Might have to look into CC2. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 08:39:18 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Existence of the Old Ones >>Maybe this comment isn´t really adding much to the conversation but: There are only indications that the Old Ones exist. Even though there has been immortals who have gained hierarch status twice, noone knows what has happened to them. AND noone really knows who the creature that appeared in WotI was. Personally I´d like to keep it that way. >You do have the right to personally want to keep it that way as to it's in your campaign, but there have been many references to the Old Ones, and in WOTI it states the process of attaining that status. It then goes on to say that if a PC ever is able to reach Old One status, he has essentially beaten the game. Which i believe is just an ammusing way to illustrate how low the chances are of obtaining it. There's nothing wrong with keeping the Old Ones a >mystery to the Immortals or just discounting the Old Ones completely in your campaign, but TSR did give more than just indications of thier existence. Now you are talking about the difference between DM/Game Designer knowledge and Character (not just player character but any character) knowledge. As for Player Character knowledge: I believe the purpose has always been to keep the Old Ones secret from these fellows. The Old Ones should be a layer of mystery beyond the Immortals ken. In other words, if the pcs know for a fact that the Old Ones exist, then a huge enigma is removed from the game. The Immortals should be aware of happenings, occurences, powers, and beings that are far beyond player character knowledge. And though they may be aware of the possibility of the existence of beings who predated themselves, they should never know too much of the beings to whom they refer to as "The Old Ones". Keep in mind that the Old Ones are intended to be as far removed from the Immortals as the Immortals are from the mortals. There are many mortals who do not believe in the Immortals, btw. The Old Ones are not a theory as far as the DM is concerned. However, exactly what the Old Ones are, is totally, and always has been, entirely up to the DM. There are no canonical definitions of what an Old One is. The very term "Old One" was one created by the Immortals to describe a theoretical being. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 08:48:22 EST From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Almanac official announcement In a message dated 98-04-01 03:08:21 EST, you write: << Dear Reader I am really sorry to bring to you bad news, but you should be informed that Joshuan Gallidox Publishing has recently been devastated by fire. [snipped] I hope that this is some sick, twisted April Fools Day prank. If not a prank, my sympathies to the efforts of the almanac staff. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 10:28:01 EST From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Existence of the Old Ones In a message dated 98-04-01 09:07:04 EST, you write: << > > Maybe this comment isn´t really adding much to the conversation but: There >>are only indications that the Old Ones exist. Even though there has been immortals who have gained hierarch status twice, noone knows what has happened to them. AND noone really knows who the creature that appeared in WotI was. Personally I´d like to keep it that way. >You do have the right to personally want to keep it that way as to it's in your campaign, but there have been many references to the Old Ones, and in WOTI it states the process of attaining that status. It then goes on to say that if a PC ever is able to reach Old One status, he has essentially beaten the game. Which i believe is just an ammusing way to illustrate how low the chances are of obtaining it. There's nothing wrong with keeping the Old Ones a >mystery to the Immortals or just discounting the Old Ones completely in your campaign, but TSR did give more than just indications of thier existence. Now you are talking about the difference between DM/Game Designer knowledge and Character (not just player character but any character) knowledge. As for Player Character knowledge: I believe the purpose has always been to keep the Old Ones secret from these fellows. The Old Ones should be a layer of mystery beyond the Immortals ken. In other words, if the pcs know for a fact that the Old Ones exist, then a huge enigma is removed from the game. The Immortals should be aware of happenings, occurences, powers, and beings that are far beyond player character knowledge. And though they may be aware of the possibility of the existence of beings who predated themselves, they should never know too much of the beings to whom they refer to as "The Old Ones". Keep in mind that the Old Ones are intended to be as far removed from the Immortals as the Immortals are from the mortals. There are many mortals who do not believe in the Immortals, btw. The Old Ones are not a theory as far as the DM is concerned. However, exactly what the Old Ones are, is totally, and always has been, entirely up to the DM. There are no canonical definitions of what an Old One is. The very term "Old One" was one created by the Immortals to describe a theoretical being. >> Well IMO and IMC, an Old One is a god. Immortals are not gods but are instead a stepping stone to being a god. I also believe that the Old Ones keep Immortal representatives, much like Immortals keep mortal identities or avatars. It would explain the older element based Immortals such as Ixion or Hel. Of course neither know that they are also Old Ones. This does not mean that all Immortals are forms of Old Ones. I would say that just a handful use this method. Myself, I like the concept of Old Ones. They place an added level to the game. They also remove some of the "omnipotent" qualities of Immortals. Plus, I like the idea of entities being higher than Immortals. I mean, a PC can feasibly gain Immortality. It is nice to have another tier to shoot for. Besides, Old Ones keep Immortals in check so to speak. Old Ones are as much beyond the reach and understanding of Immortals as Immortals are to mortals. And since mortals do not know anything, they would know very little if anything about Old Ones. IMC a PC or NPC knows only his immediate surroundings and what those surroundings offer. Most local knowledge comes from a source which is essentially second hand and subject to hearsay. Subsequent knowledge is gained by experience and going out into the world. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 17:39:39 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Existence of the Old Ones On Wed, 1 Apr 1998, Daly wrote: >The Old Ones are not a theory as far as the DM is concerned. However, exactly what the Old Ones are, is totally, and always has been, entirely up to the DM. There are no canonical definitions of what an Old One is. The very term "Old One" was one created by the Immortals to describe a theoretical being. I think we can all agree on this. Personally I dont know if I like the appearances of Old Ones in the latest modules. I prefer that their existance is shrouded in mystery... Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 06:03:43 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #204 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 6e394ddcb184e9ca97f8706534e1192b Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:31:23 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Maps and a Map-Based Index of Mystara Products << The use, Mr. Khan, comes in having different styles of maps. Also, having a printed copy or a software copy means you can make changes to the itself. For instance, if Black Eagle ends up conquering a large portion of the duchy. What then? Well, with your own map you can redraw the borders. >> This is better managed with a hex map, too. (The same thing is true for committing the war in the first place). But you got a point there: I'm collecting maps and I wish I could get all those printed ones in electronic form. You might see from that, that collecting maps from one country in different styles would increase the mass of maps enourmosly. BTW, the Karameikos map we're talking about is not complete: The informations from B10 - Night's Dark Terror are completely missing. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 18:53:37 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Maps and a Map-Based Index of Mystara Products I just saw the Karameikos map today and I must say Im impressed. More please :) I think this is one of the things we really need to spread Mystara to the masses. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 11:34:18 PST From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Maps and a Map-Based Index of Mystara Products >In a message dated 98-03-31 12:39:05 EST, you write: >Soon Tim ( a good friend of mine, not on the MML, but he can read the posts off our site) will have all of the known world and more up on a site. >Here is a map of Karameikos. >http://CWSpot.com/mystara/tinman/karameikos.gif Well, i like the map, it pretty well drawn, but he's missing the Village of Vandevicsny Village, 32 miles NW of Sulesco Village. Other than that, can he do Darokin? George Valencia Lord of the Red Guard in Darokin City. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 17:27:59 -0300 From: edu@giga.com.ar Subject: [MYSTARA] - Can anybody read this mail? I think I have again this problem. When I send the mail, I received it but I think you don't. Jonathan Leibiusky edu@giga.com.ar *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 12:25:17 PST From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Red Steel AksnJksn on Tue, 31 Mar 1998 16:03:00 EST wrote IIt is my understanding that Red Steel is a part of the Mystara Campaign Setting. I am currently DMing a campaign there and can fing ZERO support. ie >modules, manuals, etc... Any help would be appreciated. My Mystara Online webpage does conversion of module from their regular Game World to a place on Mystara from Bellisaria to Jibaru on the Orc's Head Peninsula. I also do annual conversions of the Annual Monsterous Arcana Trilogy of modules, and find a place for them in Mystara. visit my webpage at http://members.tripod.com/~mktriton/arcanab.html currently working on converting the module from Dungeon 67 to my Oracle page site of Mystara Online. I hope that helps you in a big way ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 12:35:53 PST From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Almanac official announcement >From: Joshuan Gallidox Publishing >>I am really sorry to bring to you bad news, but you should be informed that Joshuan Gallidox Publishing has recently been devastated by fire. >That's terrible! >>Flaurmont 1st, AC 1016 >I promise to help you when the citizens rise up to hang you ;> >--- >Galwylin Does this in way happen to be the response to rumors pertaining to the Emperor's True Sexuality, cause it would explain why some senator meant when they said they were "Screwed" by the Emperor. Jordi Leonis ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 22:49:24 -0300 From: edu@giga.com.ar Subject: [MYSTARA] - Emirates of Ylaruam (Second E-mail) I read all the Gaz 2 and I saw it VERY intresting but I don't understand something. What's Barimoor's underground complex? I know the meaning but not why is a underground complex. Also I don't understand the Society and the Religion. Can anybody help me? Thanks, Jonathan Leibiusky edu@giga.com.ar (soon I'll have a home page of D&D and Mystara in spanish). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 22:52:49 EST From: Bimha2 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - CC maps where is your website *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 22:58:00 EST From: Bimha2 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Red Steel red steel is actually called The Savage Coast and u can doownload the setting (yes it is a setting unto itself) from the tsr website k. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 00:33:06 PST From: "Joshuan Gallidox Publishing" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Almanac official announcement Dear Reader Spiderfool's Day! No, Joshuan Gallidox Publishing was not destroyed by fire, that was a practical joke for Spiderfool's Day. Spiderfool's Day is a day when people play practical jokes and pranks on each others. Clerics of Korotiku call it Korotiku's Day, and try to make people think and react by playing jokes on them. This feast is as you might guess reveriously celebrated by us gnomes, and by many other peoples as well. A classic joke on that day is to hang spiders on people's backs or hair, so that many spiders trying to reach the soil with their thin silk lines hang from one's back. Truly mischevious people even put giant spiders on others' backs... I fondly remember when a few years ago I did just that to my old friend Dorrik. Have fun, be a fool. Belzamith Fingertackles, Co-Editor Mystaran Almanac Mirros, Karameikos Flaurmont 2nd, AC 1016 To the reader One note about the fire: There was indeed a fire at Joshuan Gallidox Publishing, hence the delay of the Almanac by a couple of month. It is an event you can find in the Almanac. However, the exagerated letter on the event was but a prank by the silly gnome that calls himself an editor. Expect the real Almanac soon. I wonder how could so many people fall to that hoax. How could smart wizards and wise rulers believe the mischevious gnome? Anyway, rest assured, dear reader, that the almanac will be released, though somewhat late. We are aware that you as a reader interested in our world's events, would like to get the almanac as early as possible, and maybe even on Nuwmont 1st. I hope you understand why this is impossible, as many important events happen up to the Day of Dread. Our correspondents often need days or even weeks to gather information rather than mere rumors, and then it takes some time to send them our way so we can edit them and then print them as an almanac. As we expand our network of correspondents, it should eventually be easier to release on time a better almanac that would cover a larger part of the world, and, I hope, the whole world, including western Brun and the Savage Coast, the southern continent of Davania and the eastern continent of Skothar, as well as the Hollow World. We learn from our mistakes and aim at offering you the reader a better almanac. I again apologize for the delay, as well as for this edition to not be proofread. You can buy it anyway, and get your copy of the final version later this year, as soon as it is released - free of charge. Dorrik Stonecleaver, Co-Editor Mystaran Almanac Mirros, Karameikos Flaurmont 2nd, AC 1016 _________________________________ Joshuan Gallidox Publishing publisher of the Mystaran Almanac ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 11:22:15 +0300 (EET DST) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - CC maps On Wed, 1 Apr 1998, Bimha2 wrote: >where is your website See my sig. ****************************************** Aleksei Andrievski k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi aka Solmyr, the Archmage of the Azure Star Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 12:45:09 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Integrating Mystara into Planescape Cosmology On Wed, 1 Apr 1998, Inconu wrote: >>Well, references to Laterre seem to indicate that this is a rather dark and sinister place. The dimension of Myth does not give me associations like that. Maybe its just me, but they just "feel" like two different places. >I've never heard of references to Laterre like that..... It seems to resemble old France in my opinion. It seems like we may be just reading differents sources on most of the issues here.. Probably. I have been looking at Castle Amber, but my opinion may also have been influenced by discussions on the list. (I think Cthulhudrew was talking about it a long time ago) Again, I guess its what you make of it. Personally, when reading about the dimension of myth, I got all these disney-like images in my head. Nothing wrong about Disney, but it all seemed a bit silly to me. But I guess it doesn't have to be. I guess the conclusion is that you can make whatever you want out of it. >You do have the right to personally want to keep it that way as to it's in your campaign, but there have been many references to the Old Ones, and in WOTI it states the process of attaining that status. It then goes on to say that if a PC ever is able to reach Old One status, he has essentially beaten the game. Which i believe is just an ammusing way to illustrate how low the chances are of obtaining it. There's nothing wrong with keeping the Old Ones a mystery to the Immortals or just discounting the Old Ones completely in your campaign, but TSR did give more than just indications of thier existence. I think Daly's posting gave a good clarification on the Old Ones question. Unless you want me to I wont comment on this any further at this moment. Happy easter, or whatever you might celebrate :) Sincerely Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 13:04:41 +0200 From: Lille My Subject: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Elven weather and Ierendi -(was: Size of Mystara) At 14:22 01-04-98 +0200, Håvard wrote: >On Mon, 30 Mar 1998, Lille My wrote: >>At 18:35 27-03-98 +0100, Håvard wrote: IIII was thinking that they could take the water from somewhere in the sea of Dread. Ofcourse this could affect the Island Kingdoms.. Any thoughts? >>I guess it would dry out some of the islands, leaving them a bit more dry, but it depends on how they intend to take the water. If the elves increase the heat in the area they might create that weather phenomena called El Nino (or something), a phenomena that occurs every 3 or 7 years and greatly affects local enviroment with storms, flood and droughts. A heat increase might turn the Ierendi kingdoms more tropical, but also dry out some of the jungles. Perhaps ancient lizard men once again will emerge with the increased temperatures? >Interesting ideas. I woul think they´d mailnly create winds that would steal rainclouds, but raising the temperature might not be such a bad idea...I dont really like Ierendi the way it is so changing it sounds like a good idea...Wonder if the Lizardmen are good sailors... I always thought that the Lizard men would be satisfied with controlling the islands themselves. So the lizard men will gather once again lead by ancient lizard men priests and wizards to conquer most of Ierendi (wisely avoiding Honor Island) and for ancient times of peace let the native Makai live more or less undisturbed. The first signs of this happening will be the lizard men from the Malpheggi swamps of South darokin emigrating for Ierendi and perhaps also some of the Lizard men and the like from Savage Coast. Next thing would be their alliance with the Shark-kin, as the could use their help when moving from island to island and it seems like these two races could easily work together, as they seems to have a lot of things in common. Another sign of things happening is missing tourists and the loss of contact with small non-makai villages and outposts, soon small ships, that used to travel to the islands would disappear. The Ierendians would try to muster an army to deal with the problem and gather allies (among these Darokin), but once the origin of the problems are discovered the Darokinians begin reconsidering their alliance, since they are quite satisfied with the disappearence of the lizard men from the Maplpheggi swamp making the area more peaceful, as there no longer are any lizard men raids, but if the Ierendi Islands are cleansed of lizard men they most likely will return to the Malpheggi swamp once again. This leads to tensions between Ierendi and Darokin and the other alliance partners are in for trouble as they have to consider which of the two nations that they want to side with or how to negotiate a truth between them. Hmm, this got a bit long, but perhaps you can use it, anyway let me hear what you think. >>>Seen the Kingdom2 yet by the way? >>Oh yes I have. It's quite interesting. It is a close follow up on the first Kingdom, but it changes its style somewhat making it different. Won't say too much. >Seen it and I loved it :) Can't wait for the final part, I am so darned curious to see how he wraps it all up. >BTW: rumours are that you are on the Nephilim digest. (Big Brother can see you) I confess. I am a quiet one, but I am there. You happens to playing Nephilim? If so I would really like to hear about your campaign, I can always use some good ideas. I guess it would be better if we emailed privately on this one, as integrating Nephilim and Mystara might get a bit strained. Anyone else here playing Nephilim? Lille My *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #204 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, April 3 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 205 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Existence of the Old Ones Re: [MYSTARA] - Integrating Mystara into Planescape Cosmology [MYSTARA] - [mystara] Economics and other Dominion Questions Re: [MYSTARA] - Integrating Mystara into Planescape Cosmology [MYSTARA] - Sale - Reruns Various Mystaran Stuff Re: [MYSTARA] - CC maps Re: [MYSTARA] - Red Steel Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Almanac official announcement Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Almanac official announcement Re: [MYSTARA] - CC maps Re: [MYSTARA] - Emirates of Ylaruam Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Almanac official announcement Re: [MYSTARA] - Integrating Mystara into Planescape Cosmology Re: [MYSTARA] - CC maps Re: [MYSTARA] - CC maps ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 07:14:55 EST From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Existence of the Old Ones << Now you are talking about the difference between DM/Game Designer knowledge and Character (not just player character but any character) knowledge.>> That's not what my message was intended to mean. It was being used has a source of proof as to how the Old Ones have been created by TSR and how it's not just hinted around at.....as a rumor. <> I agree. That's obviously the whole point of the Old Ones. Khronus has been trying to find info on the Old Ones for a long time and has been able to come up with much at all, and have you seen his WIS and INT scores lately? I didn't mean to come off as saying PCs all are striveing to reach Old One status. No mortals know about the Old Ones and very few Immortals have any info on the Old Ones. <> I don't think that preportion works out too well. Many mortals praise Immortals and may display their powers through clerical magic. Also, most nations have many places dedicated to praise immortals. However the Immortals' knowledge is extremely limited on the Old Ones....and they have no proof that the Old Ones exist. <> I agree here. Whenever TSR came out with items that were not described in detail, I took it as something the DM should just sit down and work on till they can define it to the best of their abilities. Which is exactly what i did with the old ones. And of course if it doesn't fit in your campaign, you just chuck it out. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 07:32:26 EST From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Integrating Mystara into Planescape Cosmology << Probably. I have been looking at Castle Amber, but my opinion may also have been influenced by discussions on the list. (I think Cthulhudrew was talking about it a long time ago) >> I might know as to what you were referring now. In the module there was a pocket-dimension created by Ettienne, in which he trapped his entire family. It was dark, mysterious, and all around a screwed up place. Many of the D'ambrevilles died there, some flipped alignments (it's brutal seeing an evil Simon), and yet others were physically morphed. That may be the place you were speaking of on an earlier post. Laterre is Etienne's home dimension. He fled from there to Mystara, and paved the way for his family, the McGregors, Prince Malachie aka White Wolf, etc... Basically he and the others were hunted because of their magical abilities in a middle-age society. Seemed a lot like the Inquisition on good old Earth. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 14:55:27 +0200 (MET DST) From: Wolfgang Razen Subject: [MYSTARA] - [mystara] Economics and other Dominion Questions Hoi! I just stumbled across this list and joined it yesterday... If i make some formal mistakes, please don't hurt me .. Now to the Subject: I'm playing a highest level party (1 archmage 36, 1 Highpriest 36, one merchantprince (elf) 20/15) and 'just' began the adventure of Trading... Being in possession of both gazzetteers (9 and 11) I constructed a rapidly growing corporation. Now the questions: 1st: How great is the TOTAL revenue of all Traders on the sea of dread and the inner countries (incl. Glantri, Ethengar, Heldann and Norwold), the sea of dawn area and Alphatia. This question includes the price to be paid by a new magnate to gain control and possession of these traders assets and facilities... (yup thats a great area, but my DM quested my elf to gain the control over the trade in the sea of dread area to get one step closer to inmortality...) 2nd: How much families can be supported by one 24-mile hex of Grassland (with and without river) MIxed (some hills, forests, swamps) Hills Forest Coastal (including fishing the adjacent 24 mile water hexes) Mountain Swamp with own-producing Crops (fruits aso) Theat those terrain as ploughed, irrrigated, 3-field alteration, non-artificial fertilization (per herbs, grazing of herds, ...) How can be the number of supportees be increased (Magic, tech, ...) 3nd: related to the 1st question: How much gold can be extracted from the economy without getting the danger of collaps. (regaring to a computer simulation game, where you travel with a fleet of ships though the north- and east-sea at the time about 1300 aD con- ducting trade and the Sum of ALL gold in the game never changes). How much profit you can make, if you pay your armies with this money. 4th: What is the limit of the Inhabitans per sqaremile in a SETTLEMENT (yes and only the settlement. this question does not include the feeding of these people, but the room needed to live, work and the needed infrastructure (take into account: This is an island and mainly mines copper and construct ships) So. That was the great load of questions i have to the community. BTW: I'm nt a native english-speaker, so please forgive the errors I made... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- shadow@POOL.informatik.rwth-aachen-de | If you flee, you only die tiered shadowelf@genesis.informatik.rwth-aachen.de | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 15:05:57 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Integrating Mystara into Planescape Cosmology On Thu, 2 Apr 1998, Inconu wrote: ><< >Probably. I have been looking at Castle Amber, but my opinion may also have been influenced by discussions on the list. (I think Cthulhudrew was talking about it a long time ago) >> >I might know as to what you were referring now. In the module there was a pocket-dimension created by Ettienne, in which he trapped his entire family. It was dark, mysterious, and all around a screwed up place. Many of the D'ambrevilles died there, some flipped alignments (it's brutal seeing an evil Simon), and yet others were physically morphed. That may be the place you were speaking of on an earlier post. >Laterre is Etienne's home dimension. He fled from there to Mystara, and paved the way for his family, the McGregors, Prince Malachie aka White Wolf, etc... Basically he and the others were hunted because of their magical abilities in a middle-age society. Seemed a lot like the Inquisition on good old Earth. Ooops! Maybe I mixed those two up. I'll go check that sometime later. Sorry about any confusion I may have caused. Sincerely Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 14:03:10 GMT From: lyndon@pobox.com (Lyndon Baugh) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Sale - Reruns Various Mystaran Stuff This is not a "relaunch", but I found a treasure trove of Mystaran products at K-B Toys -- some of which I didn't have. If anyone else is interested, please email me privately at lyndon@pobox.com and we will work out getting these to you at my cost + shipping. Mark of Amber $4 (about a dozen) Kingdom of Karameikos $7 (8 or 9) Glantri, Kingdom of Magic $7 (only saw a couple) Red Steel $7 (only a couple copies) If thee is interest I will pick up some next time I'm there (within 2d6 days) and wait until your payment arrives. I'll pass these on at whatever my purchase price is + shipping. Replying >>> privately <<<< and not cluttering the test is an intelligence test to demonstrate that you are alert and courteous enough to other list members to be a worthy custodian of Mystaran products. Lyndon@pobox.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 12:51:14 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - CC maps << > where is your website See my sig. >> I've made a dozen tries to download these maps but it became stuck everytime. Did anybody make the same expereince? Jamuga Khan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 13:31:29 EST From: AksnJksn Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Red Steel Thanks a lot. I'll look it up and get back with you. Jack *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 13:45:21 -0600 From: "Lord BKis1" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Almanac official announcement Where do you get a copy of this Almanac? >To the reader >One note about the fire: There was indeed a fire at Joshuan Gallidox Publishing, hence the delay of the Almanac by a couple of month. It is an event you can find in the Almanac. However, the exagerated letter on the event was but a prank by the silly gnome that calls himself an editor. Expect the real Almanac soon. >I wonder how could so many people fall to that hoax. How could smart wizards and wise rulers believe the mischevious gnome? AAnyway, rest assured, dear reader, that the almanac will be released, though somewhat late. We are aware that you as a reader interested in our world's events, would like to get the almanac as early as possible, and maybe even on Nuwmont 1st. I hope you understand why this is impossible, as many important events happen up to the Day of Dread. Our correspondents often need days or even weeks to gather information rather than mere rumors, and then it takes some time to send them our way so we can edit them and then print them as an almanac. As we expand our network of correspondents, it should eventually be easier to release on time a better almanac that would cover a larger part of the world, and, I hope, the whole world, including western Brun and the Savage Coast, the southern continent of Davania and the eastern continent of Skothar, as well as the Hollow World. >We learn from our mistakes and aim at offering you the reader a better almanac. I again apologize for the delay, as well as for this edition to not be proofread. You can buy it anyway, and get your copy of the final version later this year, as soon as it is released - free of charge. >Dorrik Stonecleaver, Co-Editor >Mystaran Almanac >Mirros, Karameikos >Flaurmont 2nd, AC 1016 >_________________________________ >Joshuan Gallidox Publishing >publisher of the Mystaran Almanac >______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 12:53:47 PST From: "Joshuan Gallidox Publishing" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Almanac official announcement >Where do you get a copy of this Almanac? You can get a copy of last year's (1014 AC) almanac at the following sites: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/9037/ http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560/ http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/ http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/ 1015 Almanac will be posted to the list ASAP. _________________________________ Joshuan Gallidox Publishing publisher of the Mystaran Almanac ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 18:26:16 -0700 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - CC maps Aleksei Andrievski meandered fecklessly... >Hello, >A bunch of Mystaran maps for CC1 are now available on my website. As far as I can tell, these are in CC format, meaning thos who do not have CC cannot view them. Any chance of you converting them into some viewable format? Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com ICQ #4253672 "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 23:43:08 -0500 From: Derek Harmon Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Emirates of Ylaruam edu@giga.com.ar wrote: >I read all the Gaz and I saw it VERY intresting but I don't understand something. What's Barimoor's underground complex? I know the meaning but not why is a underground complex. It's an expansive underground complex in which he, Barimoor, has fostered his own version of the desert garden. Of course, if it were on the surface, it would really be a desert garden, but it isn't. Hypothetically, because its easier to tap water beneath Ylaruam than it is on the surface. It's also probably underground just because Barimoor is a bad dude, and it makes a good hiding place for him and his followers. 3:)> >Also I don't understand the Society and the Religion. Can anybody help me? The focus of Barimoor's society / religion is to attain immortality for himself. He's already completed several of the steps on the way to Immor- tality, but he is biding his time slowly in increasing his power base, which will probably take him another several centuries. -- Stonelight *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 00:00:01 -0500 From: Derek Harmon Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Almanac official announcement Belzamith Fingertackles wrote: >Dear Reader >Spiderfool's Day! : >with their thin silk lines hang from one's back. Truly mischevious people even put giant spiders on others' backs... I fondly remember when a few years ago I did just that to my old friend Dorrik. Yes, I remember Dorrik telling me about that little incident over a fresh mead we shared in Mirros; or should I say big incident. He wasn't thrilled when the spell you had some hedge wizard cast on a full blown aranea you had, shall we say, illicitly, imported from the Isle of Dread. Yes, it was a little spider after the diminuition, but not when Dorrik went in to do an interview with Prince Valen Karameikos. No, no, no. Just then the spell wore off and a rather irritated aranea was loose on the Royal Estate. Two members of the Elvenguard held Dorrik in a cell overnight while his fate and his willing accomplice in the matter were ascertained. Prince Valen was most concerned, hence all visitors thereafter had to undergo a thorough fleecing for concealed arachnids of all sorts. Several business associates of mine from Selenica and I had to undergo friskings before we could meet with the finance minister, Valdo Tisza, later that week. We wondered what was up. Well, anyway, to make a long story longer, Dorrik told me he didn't get the interview and to make ammends, Joshuan Gallidox himself had to co- sponsor a band of adventurers to hunt down the eight-legged beast, who con- tinued to grow to gargantuan proportions and had eaten several small horses. Of course, need we wonder why this little event was covered up and not reported in your fine almanac? 3;D> -- Stonelight Dwarf-at-Large Currently on secret assignment outside Penhaligon. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 02:35:33 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Integrating Mystara into Planescape Cosmology In a message dated 98-04-01 07:20:24 EST, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no writes: >Well, references to Laterre seem to indicate that this is a rather dark aand sinister place. The dimension of Myth does not give me associations like that. Maybe its just me, but they just "feel" like two different places. The strange thing is that the "Dimension of Myth" was made up solely to be the origin of Laterre, so if Laterre does not fit in there, then we have no real use for the Dimension of Myth.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 11:51:55 +0300 (EET DST) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - CC maps On Thu, 2 Apr 1998, Leroy Van Camp III wrote: >As far as I can tell, these are in CC format, meaning thos who do not have CC cannot view them. Any chance of you converting them into some viewable format? Well, since someone asked for CC maps, I put them there. I can convert them into GIF, but they won't look pretty. ****************************************** Aleksei Andrievski k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi aka Solmyr, the Archmage of the Azure Star Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 08:49:00 EST From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - CC maps In a message dated 98-04-02 20:51:34 EST, you write: << > Hello, >A bunch of Mystaran maps for CC1 are now available on my website. As far as I can tell, these are in CC format, meaning thos who do not have CC cannot view them. Any chance of you converting them into some viewable format? As with JKhan, I too had difficulty in downloading the maps. I actually had no problem in the actual download. I just could not veiw them. As Leroy "meandered" I do not have CC nor do I have CC2. Probably will get it. What I have seen looks good. Besides it beats those darn bitmaps. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #205 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 01:47:31 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #206 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: bac70faeb6712cd039d46bc9f5bfc5a5 mystara-digest Saturday, April 4 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 206 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian GAZ [MYSTARA] - New e-mail account Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian GAZ Re: [MYSTARA] - Sale - Reruns Various Mystaran Stuff [MYSTARA] - PC1 and Alfheim [MYSTARA] - Emirates of Ylaruam Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian GAZ Re: [MYSTARA] - Emirates of Ylaruam Re: [MYSTARA] - PC1 and Alfheim Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Re: [MYSTARA] - PC1 and Alfheim Re: [MYSTARA] - Emirates of Ylaruam Re: [MYSTARA] - PC1 and Alfheim Re: [MYSTARA] - Emirates of Ylaruam Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sale - Reruns Various Mystaran Stuff Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian GAZ Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian GAZ Re: [MYSTARA] - PC1 and Alfheim [MYSTARA] - Emirates of Ylaruam (in spanish) Re: [MYSTARA] - PC1 and Alfheim Re: [MYSTARA] - Integrating Mystara into Planescape Cosmology Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] GURPS Monsters Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Re: [MYSTARA] - PC1 and Alfheim Re: [MYSTARA] - PC1 and Alfheim Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian GAZ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 08:58:37 EST From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian GAZ Well, I just about have the Alphatian Kingdom of Randel finished. Aside from filling in a few dates and dressing up a few pieces, I am almost done. The one problem I am having is with Alphatian names. I have pretty much exhausted my inventory of Alphatian names. I would have thought a list of some forty three names would have sufficed in such an uninteresting kingdom. I guessed wrong. Now I have "writers block" and new names are taking a twist. Most end up coming out as Asian or even Celtic sounding. I have even had to resort to Several redundant names. So I am taking requests. Anyone want to suggest a name or two for a worthy cause? Male or female, doesn't matter. Hopefully, I will not have this problem with my next Alphatian kingdom, Eadrin. BTW, some have already been warned but the Randel GAZ is long. 48 pages at last count and with 3 cities left to key in. Thanks, Alex "overkill" Benson *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 16:36:24 +0200 From: "Tomás Sánchez Jr" Subject: [MYSTARA] - New e-mail account Mystarans : I have a new e-mail account whose main purpose will be to manage the MML heavy traffic. Since now this will be my forward and replay-to address for all those threads related to the MML. Although, you can still write to my previous e-mail account to discuss and comment any thread not aimed to be commented there. ( writing team mates and friends should continue as ever ). Thanks for your attention. Tomás Sánchez Jr Old e-mail : deckard@encomix.es New e-mail : deckard-mystara@encomix.es ICQ : 9190040 *PostData : Note that i keep the old account active too and i don't plan to remove any of them. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 12:14:08 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian GAZ Zephrim Karatnor Alphatar Larukoot Melanora Selaspart Lochtinar Zelarua At 08:58 AM 4/3/98 EST, you wrote: >Well, I just about have the Alphatian Kingdom of Randel finished. Aside from filling in a few dates and dressing up a few pieces, I am almost done. The one >problem I am having is with Alphatian names. I have pretty much exhausted my inventory of Alphatian names. I would have thought a list of some forty three names would have sufficed in such an uninteresting kingdom. I guessed wrong. >Now I have "writers block" and new names are taking a twist. Most end up coming out as Asian or even Celtic sounding. I have even had to resort to Several redundant names. >So I am taking requests. Anyone want to suggest a name or two for a worthy cause? Male or female, doesn't matter. >Hopefully, I will not have this problem with my next Alphatian kingdom, Eadrin. >BTW, some have already been warned but the Randel GAZ is long. 48 pages at last count and with 3 cities left to key in. >Thanks, >Alex "overkill" Benson >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 12:23:27 PST From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sale - Reruns Various Mystaran Stuff >This is not a "relaunch", but I found a treasure trove of Mystaran products at K-B Toys -- some of which I didn't have. If anyone else is interested, please email me privately at lyndon@pobox.com and we will work out getting these to you at my cost + shipping. >Mark of Amber $4 (about a dozen) >Kingdom of Karameikos $7 (8 or 9) >Glantri, Kingdom of Magic $7 (only saw a couple) Red Steel $7 (only a couple copies) >If thee is interest I will pick up some next time I'm there (within 2d6 days) and wait until your payment arrives. I'll pass these on at whatever my purchase price is + shipping. See if you can get me Red Steel, i'd appreciate it. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 17:36:07 -0300 From: edu@giga.com.ar Subject: [MYSTARA] - PC1 and Alfheim I saw Canulbrath is a very huge forst. Where is exactly Alfheim? About the PC1... what do you think about Centaur PCs? Anybody played with a dryad? How was it? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 17:36:02 -0300 From: edu@giga.com.ar Subject: [MYSTARA] - Emirates of Ylaruam Tell me about Barimoor and about the different Emirates. Tell me about the society en general (in all the Emirates) and about the politic (in general) of the Emirates. Thanks, edu@giga.com.ar *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 15:45:07 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian GAZ << BTW, some have already been warned but the Randel GAZ is long. 48 pages at last count and with 3 cities left to key in. >> O.k., we're waiting impatiently. Some Alphatian names: (To remember all: Alphatians normally have only one name which have to sound "good") Ebenezum Galadaran Wizirin Harrantran Kalebolon Quirrin Lidil Poronzor Charkanan Hope this helps... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 13:06:00 PST From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Emirates of Ylaruam edu@giga.com.ar wrote: >Tell me about Barimoor and about the different Emirates. Tell me about the society en general (in all the Emirates) and about the >politic (in general) of the Emirates. All I do know is that the Makistan are the most tolerate of foreigners due to the large number of merchant traffic that pass through that emirate from Rockhome and Darokin, it capital is Parsa, it people is of a Ylari-Ethangar mix. The Abashani are like your Sudai Arabians, if you are not a follower of the Holy Nameh, then you must die. this info is very limited from my standpoint. maybe someone else will help you out. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 23:26:55 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - PC1 and Alfheim At 17.36 03/04/98 -0300, edu@giga.com.ar wrote: II saw Canulbrath is a very huge forst. Where is exactly Alfheim? About the PC1... what do you think about Centaur PCs? Anybody played with a dryad? How was it? Well, Canolbarth is (better, was) Alfheim. If you mean Alfheim Town, than it's in the western part of Canolbarth. About PC1. I once used a Dryad as NPC, she was the girlfriend of an unwilling mage PC. I had a Pooka PC. It was great, though a bit too powerful IMO. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 14:10:09 PST From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian >George wrote: >>Well Fab, I Think maybe they Elvolved into the Mind-flayers, or became >>the actual Drow of Mystara (not the Shadow Elves, but the Real Drow race), Besides in my campaign i have drow living in the Great Plateu North of Sind, West of Wendar, the possess plenty of Geomancy, and as well as spells with an Arachnid theme to it. would that help, at all? >very interesting! I like the word elvolved (was that intentional?) my bad, it was speed typing typo. >my theory on mind flayers of course is that they evolve from the Kopru in the far future... or that they did evovle and were living in exile from the human world. AAs for Drow, I have a tribe of them living above ground in the desert of Septentriona ... maybe these are connected to yours in the >Great Plateau. Do you use the Ungolwaith (Sand Folk) that have been written up for the Adri Varma? I have them in the Great Plain of Fire Desert, and in Baratkand, Sind as a possible deterent to those wishing to travel to the Savage Frontier Early in the Campaign, I also have the Sand Folk in the Nithian Emirate, and the Emirate of Ylaraum, as one of lost race of Ylaraum. IIMC there are also renegade Flaem nationalists (who hate the non-Flaemish elements in Glantri) who live out iin the plateau and trade with the ungolwaith and certain humanoid tribes(mostly hobgoblins). Have you tried to use Gnoll, i know that some like living in the Desert, or desertlike conditions >One idea I was working on was the idea of a Carnifex-style demi-Dracolich ... it would be a huge petrified TTyrannosaurus skull (with ruby eyes, perhaps symbols of Arik) stuck in a huge sandstone wall (i really liked dinosaur national monument as a kid)in a cave, where ungolwaith tribesmen (and perhaps geomantic arachnotheistic drow) come to worship it. it wouldn't be able to move, but it would be very powerful in its small territory. also i had sort of worked out some ideas for a renegade Hulean general named Maqa Vellu who controls part of the plateau ... let me know if any of this interests you, or send me anything you've got, or both. i always like new ideas. >peace, >m@2 My Drow were to also worship Lolth as a Immortal, as well as Atzanteotl, and there are two different Drow nations, The Lolth-worshipping Drow, are Matriarchial, the leading house female rules, and their priestess use both spells that uses Spider and Scorpions (for Desert Flavor) as creature of summoning, I have them in region of the plateau near Lake Hast, Sind. While the Atzanteotl-Worshipping Drow are like the Shadow-Elves only that they were cursed by Rafiel, and Mealiden for Continuing to worship Atzanteotl, after the sinking of Aengmor, The immortals' curse is what gave the drow their current features. The Atzan-Drow is Patriarchial, the Man rules, and their priestly spell have more of a Serpent theme. The two groups were united, until a civil war started when the last drow of Aengmor(their underground kingdom) died and their was a Huge Succession war between the King only child, His Daughter, and Aengmor High Priest on who should rule, This split the tribe into their modern drow Nations of Arachnia, and Atzanmor,(sorry didn't Drow of the Underdark book with me or i'd come up with a drow sounding names) As for a faction that worships a Carnifex-style demi-Dracolich ... it would be a huge petrified Tyrannosaurus skull (with ruby eyes, perhaps symbols of Arik) stuck in a huge sandstone wall, i'll added to my Drow of Mystara Gazeeteer file. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 17:20:09 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - PC1 and Alfheim << I saw Canulbrath is a very huge forst. Where is exactly Alfheim? About the PC1... what do you think about Centaur PCs? Anybody played with a dryad? How was it? >> Sorry to correct you, but Canolbarth is a very small forest and Alfheim was in the middle of it until the destruction in the middle of the Great War. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 14:49:46 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Emirates of Ylaruam Jonathan, I got your message at least, but I don't understand your questions. Barimoor has a series of caves and tunnels underground with strong fortifications because he wants to make sure no one from the surface world can discover too much about him. Is this what you wanted to know? Also, what about the society and religion don't you understand? ?Tambien, dije usted que sea de Argentina? Yo hablo un pequen~o de Espan~ol, es posible que puede comprenderles a sus preguntas si me mandelas en su lengua nativa. paz, m@2 "You're not really in love with yourself - you're just in love with the idea of being in love with yourself" - said to me by one of the two little fellas who hang out on either of my shoulders ... I can't remember which ... On Tue, 31 Mar 1998 edu@giga.com.ar wrote: >I read all the Gaz and I saw it VERY intresting but I don't understand something. What's Barimoor's underground complex? I know the meaning but not why is a underground complex. >Also I don't understand the Society and the Religion. Can anybody help me? >Thanks, >Jonathan Leibiusky >edu@giga.com.ar >(soon I'll have a home page of D&D and Mystara in spanish). >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 01:47:31 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #206 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: bac70faeb6712cd039d46bc9f5bfc5a5 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 19:27:46 EST From: Bimha2 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - PC1 and Alfheim what is the PC1 and can it be downloaded from the internet *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 19:39:39 EST From: Mystaros Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Emirates of Ylaruam In a message dated 98-04-03 15:55:40 EST, you write: << Tell me about Barimoor and about the different Emirates. Tell me about the society en general (in all the Emirates) and about the politic (in general) of the Emirates. Thanks, edu@giga.com.ar >> First, I'll tackle Barimoor... he's an expatriate Alphatian Wizard who has set up an underground complex in the rocky desert region between Uruk and Ylaruam. His goal is to attain Immortality on the Path of the Paragon (i.e., he must be the Greatest Mage in the region, which includes most of the Known World). He settled into his complex some eight centuries ago (yes, 800 years ago, ca. 200 AC)! He feels that he will have gathered enough power to reach his goal in another two to three centuries (interesting... this falls around the same time as the original GAZ version of the Invasion of the Desert Nomads... hmmm). He is listed as being a 36th level magic-user... but he has been such for about eight hundred years! Think about the influence and power he ACTUALLY has... Some folks on this list have posited him as the Mystaran equivalent of the "Old Man of the Mountain" of the Hashishin (Assassin) cult of old Persia, which I have also done. Imagine if the Cult of Assassins had been ruled by the SAME MAN for 800 years... and then make him the most powerful wizard for hundreds of miles around... As to the culture of the Emirates, the Alasiyani are essencially Arabs, which a dash of Egyptian (E. of Nithia), Mongol/Turkic (E. of Makistan), Romano- Aramaic-Phoenician (E. of Nicostenia), Shi'a Persian (E. of Abbashan) and Sunni Arab (E. Alasiya). The society follows tha basic Real World "Arabian Nights" society, with powerful Emirs, war-like Sheiks, mysterious Wizards, noble-but-savage Nomad Warriors, mystic Genies and so forth. The Eternal Truth, the religion of Ylaruam, is the heart of the society; I would equate it (for the most part) with early Islam, perhaps from the first several centuries. There are two factions in the Eternal Truth, just as there are two major "divisions" in RW Islam. The Preceptor faction of the Eternal Truth is similar to Sunni Islam in that the basis of the Sultanate (which equates the RW Caliphate) is in the hands of a council that elects the Sultan, and the Kin faction similarly equates (in general) to the Shi'a Islam, in that the Kin believe that only blood-descendants of Al Kalim (the Prophet of the Eternal Truth) may act as Sultan. The Preceptors are more open to foreign influence and culture, while the Kin are more conservative and insular (the Preceptors are now in control, though they are scheduled to lose power in 1050 AC according to most Gazetteers). Note that Al Kalim set the system up this way, so that Ylaruam would have a system of "checks and balances" to help preserve their society and sovereignty. Note also that the Almanacs list the current (1000 AC) Sultan as Mohammed Al-Kalim, a descendant of Al Kalim; in this case, a balance apparently has been reached wherein the Preceptors elected a descendant of Al Kalim, reaching a compromise with the Kin... but should the Sultan die, there would be a lot of subterfuge and political infighting, perhaps even civil war... Each Emirate is ruled by it's own Emir, but all Emirs answer in some way to the Voucheries (the various bureaucratic divisons of the Ylari government). Each Emir has a lot of power within his own Emirate, but must defer to the Voucheries and the Sultan when dealing with outsiders. Naturally, a lot of quiet (and not so quiet) politicking goes on within the Voucheries (which include the Voucheries of the State, the Faithful, Water Resources, Agriculture, Mining, Merchant Affairs, rades and Crafts, Sorcery, the Military, Civil Law, the Provinces and the Vouchery of Taxation)! The upshot ofthe Voucheries (each led by a Vizier) is first and foremost the Dream of the Garden in the Desert (whereby the Alasiyan Desert blooms, a subject of some debate recently on this list). Add all this in with the politics of the nomad tribes, various foreign conflicts (mostly Thyatis), various regigious conflicts (with the Ethengars to the north (rare), and the Glantrians (rarer, but felt more often, as the Glantrians ARE mages and utterly opposed to religion of all kind). Lots of politics and intrigue... In other words, Ylaruam can be a LOT of fun... Mystaros *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 20:13:12 EST From: BoBo II Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sale - Reruns Various Mystaran Stuff Are King of K. and Glantri the AD&D products set in Mystara? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 20:16:18 EST From: BoBo II Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian GAZ In a message dated 4/3/98 4:06:18 PM, you wrote: < Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian GAZ In a message dated 98-04-03 20:31:01 EST, you write: << What about the Glantrians of Alphatian decent? Have they simply adopted Known World naming customs to "fit in" with the locals? Intermarried? Thoughts? >> That would work very well as they are both magocratic societyies... Oh sorry, you have no clue who I am! MY name is Magistar and I am new, However, I don't have a lot of info, I only have Karakeimos:Kingdom of Adventute, Glantri: Kingdom of magic, Gazeteer: Dawn of the emporers. So here I am, high everyone! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 00:52:39 -0300 From: edu@giga.com.ar Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - PC1 and Alfheim At 07:30 PM 3/04/98 -0300, you wrote: ><< I saw Canulbrath is a very huge forst. Where is exactly Alfheim? AAbout the PC1... what do you think about Centaur PCs? Anybody played with a dryad? How was it? >> >Sorry to correct you, but Canolbarth is a very small forest and Alfheim was in the middle of it until the destruction in the middle of the Great War. And I'm sorry to correct you, but Alfheim Town was in the western part of the forest. And I think it was a very big forest. If you have the PC1 so you'll can see that. About the Great War. I prefer to play in 980 AC so Alfheim and Canulbrath still exist. Jonathan Leibiusky edu@giga.com.ar *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 00:52:44 -0300 From: edu@giga.com.ar Subject: [MYSTARA] - Emirates of Ylaruam (in spanish) At least someone who can speak spanish!!!! I'm sorry for this mail cause only who knows spanish will be able to understand. I don't know your privatly mail so I send it to the mystara-l. At 08:00 PM 3/04/98 -0300, you wrote: >Jonathan, I got your message at least, but I don't understand your questions. Barimoor has a series of caves and tunnels underground with strong fortifications because he wants to make sure no one from the surface world can discover too much about him. Is this what you wanted to know? Also, what about the society and religion don't you understand? >?Tambien, dije usted que sea de Argentina? Yo hablo un pequen~o de Espan~ol, es posible que puede comprenderles a sus preguntas si me mandelas en su lengua nativa. Espero que puedan entenderme. Se nota que no sabes mucho espanol porque no escribes muy bien pero de todas formas intentare cumunicarme contigo en este idioma. Lo que quiero saber en realidad es todo. Tengo el GAZ2 pero realmente no entiendo mucho. Puede que puedas explicarme lo del nameh (I think I wrote it wrong) y acerca de Way of Truth (or something like that). Acerca de Barimoor. Es que no entiendo quien es y que es?. Que tiene para esconder y quien es el actual Sultan? Bye and thanks, Jonathan Leibiusky edu@giga.com.ar *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 00:52:45 -0300 From: edu@giga.com.ar Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - PC1 and Alfheim At 09:43 PM 3/04/98 -0300, you wrote: >what is the PC1 and can it be downloaded from the internet It's a book with a lot of information about creatures from the forests (like centaurs, dryads, etc.). You have, in the book, the information and the necesary caracteristic to use them as PCs. You won't be able to download it from internet. If you are intrested in this book mail it privatly to my mail. Jonathan Leibiusky edu@giga.com.ar >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 23:06:15 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Integrating Mystara into Planescape Cosmology In a message dated 98-03-31 08:37:58 EST, jdaly@friend.ly.net writes: >I do not use the term "dimension" because that wword has very specific meaning in the old Immortal's set. Earlier in this thread there was mention that TSR changed the "canonical" explanations more than once, and the usage of the word "dimension" is yet another example -- WotI uses the term very differently from the old Immortal's set. On the other hand, the case could be made that this usage is no more ambiguous than the term "level", which in D&D has at least four and probably more distinct meanings -- which one is meant can generally be figured out from the context. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 23:06:19 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] GURPS Monsters In a message dated 98-03-31 08:48:44 EST, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no writes: >I had some problems though. >Age: lifespans seem to be very expensive. Especially for elves. GURPS fantasy give them the Ageless advantages, but I dont think that would fit for Mystara elves. 3 levels of extended lifespan and a level of early maturity could work but this will suck points. Given how unlikely it is for a D&D character to die of old age, maybe the point value of these advantages should be reduced somewhat. Does longevity provide any more game play advantages in GURPS than it does in D&D? If so, then extended lifespan could be offered at a discout if it is stripped of any extra bonuses. A comparison of the effects of aging in each game system could prove to be enlightening. >Hin Denial ability: Still not quite happy with giving them an innate counterspell ability to all spells. Does the Hin take damage from this counterspell ability? Adding that disadvantage would weaken the ability a bit. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 23:06:23 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian In a message dated 98-03-31 08:58:23 EST, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no writes: >Sounds reasonable to me. Want to make a timeline? Okay, but not from scratch. What Old Alphatian dates are already established? My additions to the timeline would be fairly minor, I would think. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 00:30:30 EST From: Bimha2 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - PC1 and Alfheim what do u mean by mailing it to u *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 00:36:35 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - PC1 and Alfheim In a message dated 98-04-03 17:40:34 EST, JamugaKhan@aol.com writes: >Sorry to correct you, but Canolbarth is a very small fforest and Alfheim was in the middle of it until the destruction in the middle of the Great War. The words "small" and "large" have little meaning without a context. For those of you who do not have a map of Mystara handy, the forest of Canolbarth (whose extent is identical with that of Alfhiem and later Aengmor) is about 288 miles (12 hexes x 24 miles/hex) from east to west and about 168 miles (7 hexes x 24 miles/hex) from north to south. Since it is roughly triangular in shape, its total area is about 48000 square miles. Whether that is small or large depends on what you are comparing it to. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 01:47:06 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian GAZ In a message dated 98-04-03 20:31:01 EST, BoBoII@aol.com writes: >What about the Glantrians of Alphatian decent? Have they simply adopted Known >World naming customs to "fit in" with the locals? Intermarried? Thoughts? While there has been some intermarriage, there are others such as the Aendyrs who kept themselves "pure". My guess is that the Alphatians who remained in Glantri after the Forty Years' War "went native" and adopted surnames. It does appear to be the case that all Glantrians have surnames, regardless of species or ethnic background. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #206 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Saturday, April 4 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 207 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Classic D&D PBeM - Call for a Few More Players [MYSTARA] - Emirates of Ylaruam [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Web Sites Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian GAZ Re: [MYSTARA] - PC1 and Alfheim Re: [MYSTARA] - PC1 and Alfheim Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian GAZ Re: [MYSTARA] - Emirates of Ylaruam ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 06:58:54 GMT From: cpb@gatewest.net (Chris Paul Billows) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Classic D&D PBeM - Call for a Few More Players CHRONICLES OF TEAREA AND BEYOND This is a call for role-players for a Classic Dungeons & Dragons Play-by-eMail campaign. The game will be based on the Rules Cyclopedia in addition to the Basic, Expert, Companion, Master and Immortal rule sets. The game will be played in the newly created world of Tearea. Players will experience an atmosphere of intrigue, betrayal, suspence, and all the trappings of high fantasy in an epic struggle against the evil Darkin. The game is underway and we are short a couple of important classes. In particular we are looking for a cleric and thief. You are welcome to submit other accepted character classes though they might not be able to play right away. Check out the web site at www.gatewest.net/~cpb/gaming/dnd/cotab/intro.html Warning - This page uses alot of graphics so it will be very slow. To skip the introduction page go to www.gatewest.net/~cpb/gaming/dnd/cotab/ Chris Billows - Dungeon Master *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 13:32:30 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Emirates of Ylaruam This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_003C_01BD5FCE.1DCFC7E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ylaraum, according to the old Gazetteer (now obsolete because it = describes Ylaruam 13 years in the past before the War of Wrath) 5 racial groups, Thyatians(absorbed by Alasiyan culture, often = bureaucrats or merchants), Alphatians(absorbed into Alasiyan culture = with the exception of the spynetwork under Barimoor, Alphatian wizard = questing the Path of the Paragon), Alasiyans(dominant race), = Makistani(peaceful offshoot of Ethengarians, ie Mongols) and = Nithians(superstitious primitives). Emirate of Alasiya (capital Ylaraum, total pop. 78,000) 25% of population in city of Ylaraum, rest scattered over small = villages and nomads. Ylaraum is famous for the quality of its = weaponsmiths, other trade items including perfume, incense and musk. = And tourism is also big business (religious pilgrims mainly). Emirate of Abbashan (capital Abbashan, total pop. 30,000) This desert wilderness is only home to the Alasiyan nomads and their = herds. Abbashan is very hostile to foreigners, little trade from here = until 993 AC when the ports of Jaboor and Fabia were added to the = emirate (these towns were forced into sea trade with foreigners because = there are no reliable overland routes). The emir of Abbashan is trying = to encourage foreign trade as Abbashan is second politically and = economically to Alasiya. The emir is also trying to set up overland = routes. The Abbashani citizens pride themselves in preserving the = traditional values of the desert nomad. Emirate of Nithia (capital Surra Man Raa, total pop 17,600) The population of Nithia is concentrated along the coast, the rest = of the emirate being a barren desert. The emirate suffered under = centuries of cultivation and inept Alphatian colonial administration and = the emirate is very poor. Squabbling local tribes leave the emir almost = totally without control over his people. Of interest are the ancient = pyramids and burial sites which attract adventurers. Emirate of Makistan (capital Parsa, total pop. 31,500) 80% of population in the fertile Ust-Urt valley. The Makistani are = commercially unambitious, the population is spread out in small villages = - - there is no substantial architecture. Makistani consider haggling to = be tiresome work - despite the rich agriculture here. Makistan is known = for its quality lamellar armour and laminated bows, fine blankets, rugs = and tents. Emirate of Nicostenia (capital Tameronikas, total pop 65,000) Populated by Alasiyans, Nicostenia holds well established port = cities as well as semi nomadic herders in the uplands. Luxuries like coffee, tea, spices, sugar and grapes provide good = trade items. Nicostenia is also the only source of timber, charcoal and = firewood in the Emirates. The Nicostenian ports are all cosmopolitan = trading communities with mercantile traditions. Goods are caravaned = from here all over the Emirates, and by ship to the rest of the Known = World. =20 Emirate of Dythestenia (capital Ctesiphon, total pop. 7,600) Entirely an unpopulated wilderness, bar Ctesiphon which is a small = city that lies at the junction of several important caravan routes. = Dythestenia has a hostile climate and poor soil, in addition to being = plagued by monster raids and a band of giants in the Altan Tepe range = (driven to Dythestenia by Thyatian punitive raids on them from the = south). The emir has been forced to hire mercenaries to protect the = valuable mines in the Altan Tepes, as standard Emirates units are = ineffective against ambush and barbarian tactics. SOCIETY Every Ylari knows the story of Al-Kalims life. Alasiyans hold the = fabulous tales of Al-Kalims pilgramage and adventuring to be no less = true than a battle scouts report - although the tales vary with the = storyteller. Two factions claim descent from Mohammed Al-Kalim, the = Preceptors(currently in power) and the Kin. The Preceptors are more modern, tolerating foreigners and = unbelievers, and not holding mercantile activities to be inferior to the = nomadic Alasiyan culture. The Kin are more conservative, treating foreigners with hostility. = City dwellers, untested by the rigors of life in the desert, are soft = and contemptible. The Eternal Truth of Al-Kalim is that a man must have Faith and = Trust in the Immortal Guardians, the honor of his fellow man, and the = wisdom obtained thorugh reason and contemplation. The Nahmeh (the book = of Al-Kalim) directs men on the proper ways to show respect and honour = to Immortals and other men. Reverencing the Immortal Guardians - the Nahmeh lists two rituals. = Firstly all True Believers must devote themselves to prayer and = meditation at sunrise and sunset. Violation of this in a city is very = bad form, in the camp of a nomad it may be a capital offence. Secondly, = all True Believers must fast for 24 hours from sunset to sunset on the = day of the full moon. After the fast they must feast, dedicating part = of the food to the Immortals by sharing the feast with the poor. Revering Fellow Man - First, when a True Believer mmets with another = True Believer, the Water Ritual must be observed (a symbolic sharing of = water). Observance of this varies from an offering of wetted fingers to = elaborate ceremonies where coffee and tea is shared in ornamental cups = to the accompanyment of recited verses. =20 Secondly - to lie to True Believer is a grave sin. The ritual of = the Truthtelling may be observed by the oath "By Al-Kalim and the = Eternal Truth, I swear...". And man who breaks his word after this is = cursed by the Immortal Guardians and scorned by his fellows. The third ritual is the Attendance to the Security of your Fellow = Man - this involves both giving alms to the poor and answering a chiefs = summons to war against Unbelievers. The government is a structured bureacracy under the authority of the = Sultan in Ylaraum. The Grand Vizier, the viziers of the various = voucheries(government departments) and all the government ministers are = selected by the Sultan with the advice of the council of Preceptors (or = Kin). =20 The Grand Vizier is essentially a prime minister, attending to the = practical aspects of running the nation, and advising the sultan and = Council on important policy matters. =20 This pattern of public-and-exemplary leader and = private-and-pragmatic advisor is mirrored in Emirates government from = top to bottom. There is a constant contrast between public appearance = and practical reality with the government. =20 The viziers (of course) are inevitably corrupted by their power, = being the behind-the-scenes powers in Ylaraum. With a strong ruler the = vizier is usually as close to evil as he can be while remaining within = the law. With a weak ruler the vizier is often thoroughly evil, = although there have been cases when wise viziers restrain the excesses = of a ruler. Internal policies include tolerating foreigners, mainting the = emirates military preeminance (especially against the Thyatians), = developing water and agriculture (to fulfill Al-Kalims Dream of the = Desert Garden), keep inter tribal conflicts in check, and exploting the = nations resources. Rockhome is a traditional ally of the Emirates. Glantrians are = thought to be evil incarnate - their antipathy towards all clerics and = religions disqualify them as intelligent beings. Darokin is treated = coldly - there is a war of import tariffs across the Darokin/Ylari = border. Karameikos is a cordial neighbour, being an important sea trade = partner, although monsters being driven into Dythestenia by Karameikan = campaigns is a cause for resentment. The former colonial overlords in = Thyatis are viewed with hatred. The Alphatians are hated on principle = as being former colonial overlords, but are officially tolerated (to = make the Thyatians nervous). Alphatian agents work clandestinely to = intensify frictions between Ylaraum and Thyatis. The Alphatians have = avoided the Thyatian reputation for treachery, thanks to the skill of = their agents. = - ---------------------------------------------- Phew!!!! Hope that was of some use - havn't ever used the Ylaraum stuff = (being a Savage Coast man myself) but tell me how the Ylari stuff goes. - ------=_NextPart_000_003C_01BD5FCE.1DCFC7E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ylaraum, according to the old Gazetteer (now = obsolete because=20 it describes Ylaruam 13 years in the past before the War of = Wrath)
 
5 racial groups, Thyatians(absorbed by Alasiyan = culture, often=20 bureaucrats or merchants), Alphatians(absorbed into Alasiyan culture = with the=20 exception of the spynetwork under Barimoor, Alphatian wizard questing = the Path=20 of the Paragon), Alasiyans(dominant race), Makistani(peaceful offshoot = of=20 Ethengarians, ie Mongols) and Nithians(superstitious = primitives).
 
Emirate of Alasiya (capital Ylaraum, total pop.=20 78,000)
    25% of=20 population in city of Ylaraum, rest scattered over small villages and=20 nomads.  Ylaraum is famous for the quality of its weaponsmiths, = other trade=20 items including perfume, incense and musk.  And tourism is also big = business (religious pilgrims mainly).
 
Emirate of = Abbashan (capital=20 Abbashan, total pop. 30,000)
    This=20 desert wilderness is only home to the Alasiyan nomads and their = herds. =20 Abbashan is very hostile to foreigners, little trade from here until 993 = AC when=20 the ports of Jaboor and Fabia were added to the emirate (these towns = were forced=20 into sea trade with foreigners because there are no reliable overland=20 routes).  The emir of Abbashan is trying to encourage foreign trade = as=20 Abbashan is second politically and economically to Alasiya.  The = emir is=20 also trying to set up overland routes.  The Abbashani citizens = pride=20 themselves in preserving the traditional values of the desert=20 nomad.
 
Emirate of = Nithia =20 (capital Surra Man Raa, total pop 17,600)
    The=20 population of Nithia is concentrated along the coast, the rest of the = emirate=20 being a barren desert.  The emirate suffered under centuries of = cultivation=20 and inept Alphatian colonial administration and the emirate is very = poor. =20 Squabbling local tribes leave the emir almost totally without control = over his=20 people.  Of interest are the ancient pyramids and burial sites = which=20 attract adventurers.
 
Emirate of = Makistan (capital=20 Parsa, total pop. 31,500)
    80% of=20 population in the fertile Ust-Urt valley.  The Makistani are = commercially=20 unambitious, the population is spread out in small villages - there is = no=20 substantial architecture.  Makistani consider haggling to be = tiresome work=20 - - despite the rich agriculture here.  Makistan is known for its = quality=20 lamellar armour and laminated bows, fine blankets, rugs and=20 tents.
 
Emirate of = Nicostenia=20 (capital Tameronikas, total pop 65,000)
    Populated=20 by Alasiyans, Nicostenia holds well established port cities as well as = semi=20 nomadic herders in the uplands.
    Luxuries=20 like coffee, tea, spices, sugar and grapes provide good trade = items. =20 Nicostenia is also the only source of timber, charcoal and firewood in = the=20 Emirates.  The Nicostenian ports are all cosmopolitan trading = communities=20 with mercantile traditions.  Goods are caravaned from here all over = the=20 Emirates, and by ship to the rest of the Known World.  =
 
Emirate of = Dythestenia=20 (capital Ctesiphon, total pop. 7,600)
    Entirely=20 an unpopulated wilderness, bar Ctesiphon which is a small city that lies = at the=20 junction of several important caravan routes.  Dythestenia has a = hostile=20 climate and poor soil, in addition to being plagued by monster raids and = a band=20 of giants in the Altan Tepe range (driven to Dythestenia by Thyatian = punitive=20 raids on them from the south).  The emir has been forced to hire=20 mercenaries to protect the valuable mines in the Altan Tepes, as = standard=20 Emirates units are ineffective against ambush and barbarian=20 tactics.
 
SOCIETY
    Every=20 Ylari knows the story of Al-Kalims life.  Alasiyans hold the = fabulous tales=20 of Al-Kalims pilgramage and adventuring to be  no less true than a = battle=20 scouts report - although the tales vary with the=20 storyteller.
    Two=20 factions claim descent from Mohammed Al-Kalim, the Preceptors(currently = in=20 power) and the Kin.
    The=20 Preceptors are more modern, tolerating foreigners and unbelievers, and = not=20 holding mercantile activities to be inferior to the nomadic Alasiyan=20 culture.
    The Kin=20 are more conservative, treating foreigners with hostility.  City = dwellers,=20 untested by the rigors of life in the desert, are soft and=20 contemptible.
 
    The=20 Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 15:55:29 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #207 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: ad5adcc4fe692fa18c9943ea63d28f32 Eternal Truth of Al-Kalim is that a man must have Faith and Trust in the = Immortal Guardians, the honor of his fellow man, and the wisdom obtained = thorugh=20 reason and contemplation.  The Nahmeh (the book of Al-Kalim) = directs men on=20 the proper ways to show respect and honour to Immortals and other=20 men.
   =20 Reverencing the Immortal Guardians - the Nahmeh lists two rituals.  = Firstly=20 all True Believers must devote themselves to prayer and meditation at = sunrise=20 and sunset.  Violation of this in a city is very bad form, in the = camp of a=20 nomad it may be a capital offence.  Secondly, all True Believers = must fast=20 for 24 hours from sunset to sunset on the day of the full moon.  = After the=20 fast they must feast, dedicating part of the food to the Immortals by = sharing=20 the feast with the poor.
    Revering=20 Fellow Man - First, when a True Believer mmets with another True = Believer, the=20 Water Ritual must be observed (a symbolic sharing of water).  = Observance of=20 this varies from an offering of wetted fingers to elaborate ceremonies = where=20 coffee and tea is shared in ornamental cups to the accompanyment of = recited=20 verses. 
    Secondly=20 - - to lie to True Believer is a grave sin.  The ritual of the = Truthtelling=20 may be observed by the oath "By Al-Kalim and the Eternal Truth, I=20 swear...".  And man who breaks his word after this is cursed = by the=20 Immortal Guardians and scorned by his fellows.
    The third=20 ritual is the Attendance to the Security of your Fellow Man - this = involves both=20 giving alms to the poor and answering a chiefs summons to war against=20 Unbelievers.
 
    The=20 government is a structured bureacracy under the authority of the Sultan = in=20 Ylaraum.  The Grand Vizier, the viziers of the various=20 voucheries(government departments) and all the government ministers are = selected=20 by the Sultan with the advice of the council of Preceptors (or = Kin). =20
    The Grand=20 Vizier is essentially a prime minister, attending to the practical = aspects of=20 running the nation, and advising the sultan and Council on important = policy=20 matters. 
    This=20 pattern of public-and-exemplary leader and private-and-pragmatic advisor = is=20 mirrored in Emirates government from top to bottom.  There is a = constant=20 contrast between public appearance and practical reality with the=20 government. 
    The=20 viziers (of course) are inevitably corrupted by their power, being the=20 behind-the-scenes powers in Ylaraum.  With a strong ruler the = vizier is=20 usually as close to evil as he can be while remaining within the = law.  With=20 a weak ruler the vizier is often thoroughly evil, although there have = been cases=20 when wise viziers restrain the excesses of a ruler.
 
    Internal=20 policies include tolerating foreigners, mainting the emirates military=20 preeminance (especially against the Thyatians), developing water and = agriculture=20 (to fulfill Al-Kalims Dream of the Desert Garden), keep inter tribal = conflicts=20 in check, and exploting the nations resources.
    Rockhome=20 is a traditional ally of the Emirates.  Glantrians are thought to = be evil=20 incarnate - their antipathy towards all clerics and religions disqualify = them as=20 intelligent beings.  Darokin is treated coldly - there is a war of = import=20 tariffs across the Darokin/Ylari border.  Karameikos is a cordial=20 neighbour, being an important sea trade partner, although monsters being = driven=20 into Dythestenia by Karameikan campaigns is a cause for = resentment.  The=20 former colonial overlords in Thyatis are viewed with hatred.  The=20 Alphatians are hated on principle as being former colonial overlords, = but are=20 officially tolerated (to make the Thyatians nervous).  Alphatian = agents=20 work clandestinely to intensify frictions between Ylaraum and = Thyatis.  The=20 Alphatians have avoided the Thyatian reputation for treachery, thanks to = the=20 skill of their agents.
 
          &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;       =20 ----------------------------------------------
 
Phew!!!!  = Hope that was=20 of some use - havn't ever used the Ylaraum stuff (being a Savage Coast = man=20 myself) but tell me how the Ylari stuff = goes.
- ------=_NextPart_000_003C_01BD5FCE.1DCFC7E0-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 13:40:02 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Web Sites This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_005C_01BD5FCF.2B2ED380 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm running a WotI campaign - but i have very little information on = Thyatis or Alphatia! (a problem...). Could anyone suggest some worthy = web sites where I can get some stuff on these two empires? - ------=_NextPart_000_005C_01BD5FCF.2B2ED380 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'm running a WotI campaign - but i = have very=20 little information on Thyatis or Alphatia! (a problem...).  Could = anyone=20 suggest some worthy web sites where I can get some stuff on these two=20 empires?
- ------=_NextPart_000_005C_01BD5FCF.2B2ED380-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 10:04:18 EST From: Magistar2 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian GAZ In a message dated 98-04-04 02:00:59 EST, you write: << It does appear to be the case that all Glantrians have surnames, regardless of species or ethnic background. >> I don't beleive that is entirely true, I remeber that one wizard had a name something of something, which he then adopted as a surname, other Glantrians could also not have a surname. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 14:00:50 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - PC1 and Alfheim At 00.36 04/04/98 EST, Kaviyd wrote: >The words "small" and "large" have little meaning without a context. For those of you who do not have a map of Mystara handy, the forest of Canolbarth (whose extent is identical with that of Alfhiem and later Aengmor) is about 288 miles (12 hexes x 24 miles/hex) from east to west and about 168 miles (7 hexes x 24 miles/hex) from north to south. Since it is roughly triangular in shape, its total area is about 48000 square miles. Whether that is small or large depends on what you are comparing it to. Jamuga was probably comparing it with the Ethengarian steppes :) - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 11:05:03 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - PC1 and Alfheim << And I'm sorry to correct you, but Alfheim Town was in the western part of the forest. And I think it was a very big forest. If you have the PC1 so you'll can see that. About the Great War. I prefer to play in 980 AC so Alfheim and Canulbrath still exist. Jonathan Leibiusky edu@giga.com.ar >> Do you really believe that? All countries which are detailed in the Gazetteers and on the Trail maps are very small. Canolbarth Forest and Alfheim too! Jamuga Khan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 11:05:00 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian GAZ << <> Probably! What I've told is true for Imperial Alphatians. The Alphatians on the Thyatian side of the Isle of Dawn and Ochalea have surnames. Jamuga Khan "Surname? Of course I have a surname: It's 'Khan' !" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 21:47:16 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Emirates of Ylaruam This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BD6013.3C181BE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 Ylaraum, according to the old Gazetteer (now obsolete because it = describes Ylaruam 13 years in the past before the War of Wrath) =20 5 racial groups, Thyatians(absorbed by Alasiyan culture, often = bureaucrats or merchants), Alphatians(absorbed into Alasiyan culture = with the exception of the spynetwork under Barimoor, Alphatian wizard = questing the Path of the Paragon), Alasiyans(dominant race), = Makistani(peaceful offshoot of Ethengarians, ie Mongols) and = Nithians(superstitious primitives). =20 Emirate of Alasiya (capital Ylaraum, total pop. 78,000) 25% of population in city of Ylaraum, rest scattered over small = villages and nomads. Ylaraum is famous for the quality of its = weaponsmiths, other trade items including perfume, incense and musk. = And tourism is also big business (religious pilgrims mainly). =20 Emirate of Abbashan (capital Abbashan, total pop. 30,000) This desert wilderness is only home to the Alasiyan nomads and = their herds. Abbashan is very hostile to foreigners, little trade from = here until 993 AC when the ports of Jaboor and Fabia were added to the = emirate (these towns were forced into sea trade with foreigners because = there are no reliable overland routes). The emir of Abbashan is trying = to encourage foreign trade as Abbashan is second politically and = economically to Alasiya. The emir is also trying to set up overland = routes. The Abbashani citizens pride themselves in preserving the = traditional values of the desert nomad. =20 Emirate of Nithia (capital Surra Man Raa, total pop 17,600) The population of Nithia is concentrated along the coast, the = rest of the emirate being a barren desert. The emirate suffered under = centuries of cultivation and inept Alphatian colonial administration and = the emirate is very poor. Squabbling local tribes leave the emir almost = totally without control over his people. Of interest are the ancient = pyramids and burial sites which attract adventurers. =20 Emirate of Makistan (capital Parsa, total pop. 31,500) 80% of population in the fertile Ust-Urt valley. The Makistani = are commercially unambitious, the population is spread out in small = villages - there is no substantial architecture. Makistani consider = haggling to be tiresome work - despite the rich agriculture here. = Makistan is known for its quality lamellar armour and laminated bows, = fine blankets, rugs and tents. =20 Emirate of Nicostenia (capital Tameronikas, total pop 65,000) Populated by Alasiyans, Nicostenia holds well established port = cities as well as semi nomadic herders in the uplands. Luxuries like coffee, tea, spices, sugar and grapes provide good = trade items. Nicostenia is also the only source of timber, charcoal and = firewood in the Emirates. The Nicostenian ports are all cosmopolitan = trading communities with mercantile traditions. Goods are caravaned = from here all over the Emirates, and by ship to the rest of the Known = World. =20 =20 Emirate of Dythestenia (capital Ctesiphon, total pop. 7,600) Entirely an unpopulated wilderness, bar Ctesiphon which is a = small city that lies at the junction of several important caravan = routes. Dythestenia has a hostile climate and poor soil, in addition to = being plagued by monster raids and a band of giants in the Altan Tepe = range (driven to Dythestenia by Thyatian punitive raids on them from the = south). The emir has been forced to hire mercenaries to protect the = valuable mines in the Altan Tepes, as standard Emirates units are = ineffective against ambush and barbarian tactics. =20 SOCIETY Every Ylari knows the story of Al-Kalims life. Alasiyans hold = the fabulous tales of Al-Kalims pilgramage and adventuring to be no = less true than a battle scouts report - although the tales vary with the = storyteller. Two factions claim descent from Mohammed Al-Kalim, the = Preceptors(currently in power) and the Kin. The Preceptors are more modern, tolerating foreigners and = unbelievers, and not holding mercantile activities to be inferior to the = nomadic Alasiyan culture. The Kin are more conservative, treating foreigners with = hostility. City dwellers, untested by the rigors of life in the desert, = are soft and contemptible. =20 The Eternal Truth of Al-Kalim is that a man must have Faith and = Trust in the Immortal Guardians, the honor of his fellow man, and the = wisdom obtained thorugh reason and contemplation. The Nahmeh (the book = of Al-Kalim) directs men on the proper ways to show respect and honour = to Immortals and other men. Reverencing the Immortal Guardians - the Nahmeh lists two = rituals. Firstly all True Believers must devote themselves to prayer = and meditation at sunrise and sunset. Violation of this in a city is = very bad form, in the camp of a nomad it may be a capital offence. = Secondly, all True Believers must fast for 24 hours from sunset to = sunset on the day of the full moon. After the fast they must feast, = dedicating part of the food to the Immortals by sharing the feast with = the poor. Revering Fellow Man - First, when a True Believer mmets with = another True Believer, the Water Ritual must be observed (a symbolic = sharing of water). Observance of this varies from an offering of wetted = fingers to elaborate ceremonies where coffee and tea is shared in = ornamental cups to the accompanyment of recited verses. =20 Secondly - to lie to True Believer is a grave sin. The ritual = of the Truthtelling may be observed by the oath "By Al-Kalim and the = Eternal Truth, I swear...". And man who breaks his word after this is = cursed by the Immortal Guardians and scorned by his fellows. The third ritual is the Attendance to the Security of your = Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 15:55:29 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #207 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: ad5adcc4fe692fa18c9943ea63d28f32 Fellow Man - this involves both giving alms to the poor and answering a = chiefs summons to war against Unbelievers. =20 The government is a structured bureacracy under the authority of = the Sultan in Ylaraum. The Grand Vizier, the viziers of the various = voucheries(government departments) and all the government ministers are = selected by the Sultan with the advice of the council of Preceptors (or = Kin). =20 The Grand Vizier is essentially a prime minister, attending to = the practical aspects of running the nation, and advising the sultan and = Council on important policy matters. =20 This pattern of public-and-exemplary leader and = private-and-pragmatic advisor is mirrored in Emirates government from = top to bottom. There is a constant contrast between public appearance = and practical reality with the government. =20 The viziers (of course) are inevitably corrupted by their power, = being the behind-the-scenes powers in Ylaraum. With a strong ruler the = vizier is usually as close to evil as he can be while remaining within = the law. With a weak ruler the vizier is often thoroughly evil, = although there have been cases when wise viziers restrain the excesses = of a ruler. =20 Internal policies include tolerating foreigners, mainting the = emirates military preeminance (especially against the Thyatians), = developing water and agriculture (to fulfill Al-Kalims Dream of the = Desert Garden), keep inter tribal conflicts in check, and exploting the = nations resources. Rockhome is a traditional ally of the Emirates. Glantrians are = thought to be evil incarnate - their antipathy towards all clerics and = religions disqualify them as intelligent beings. Darokin is treated = coldly - there is a war of import tariffs across the Darokin/Ylari = border. Karameikos is a cordial neighbour, being an important sea trade = partner, although monsters being driven into Dythestenia by Karameikan = campaigns is a cause for resentment. The former colonial overlords in = Thyatis are viewed with hatred. The Alphatians are hated on principle = as being former colonial overlords, but are officially tolerated (to = make the Thyatians nervous). Alphatian agents work clandestinely to = intensify frictions between Ylaraum and Thyatis. The Alphatians have = avoided the Thyatian reputation for treachery, thanks to the skill of = their agents. =20 = - ---------------------------------------------- =20 Phew!!!! Hope that was of some use - havn't ever used the Ylaraum = stuff (being a Savage Coast man myself) but tell me how the Ylari stuff = goes. - ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BD6013.3C181BE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 

Ylaraum, = according to=20 the old Gazetteer (now obsolete because it describes Ylaruam 13 = years in the=20 past before the War of Wrath)
 
5 racial groups, Thyatians(absorbed by Alasiyan = culture,=20 often bureaucrats or merchants), Alphatians(absorbed into Alasiyan = culture=20 with the exception of the spynetwork under Barimoor, Alphatian = wizard=20 questing the Path of the Paragon), Alasiyans(dominant race),=20 Makistani(peaceful offshoot of Ethengarians, ie Mongols) and=20 Nithians(superstitious primitives).
 
Emirate of Alasiya (capital Ylaraum, total pop.=20 78,000)
    25%=20 of population in city of Ylaraum, rest scattered over small villages = and=20 nomads.  Ylaraum is famous for the quality of its weaponsmiths, = other=20 trade items including perfume, incense and musk.  And tourism = is also=20 big business (religious pilgrims mainly).
 
Emirate of = Abbashan=20 (capital Abbashan, total pop. 30,000)
    This=20 desert wilderness is only home to the Alasiyan nomads and their = herds. =20 Abbashan is very hostile to foreigners, little trade from here until = 993 AC=20 when the ports of Jaboor and Fabia were added to the emirate (these = towns=20 were forced into sea trade with foreigners because there are no = reliable=20 overland routes).  The emir of Abbashan is trying to encourage = foreign=20 trade as Abbashan is second politically and economically to = Alasiya. =20 The emir is also trying to set up overland routes.  The = Abbashani=20 citizens pride themselves in preserving the traditional values of = the desert=20 nomad.
 
Emirate of = Nithia =20 (capital Surra Man Raa, total pop 17,600)
    The=20 population of Nithia is concentrated along the coast, the rest of = the=20 emirate being a barren desert.  The emirate suffered under = centuries of=20 cultivation and inept Alphatian colonial administration and the = emirate is=20 very poor.  Squabbling local tribes leave the emir almost = totally=20 without control over his people.  Of interest are the ancient = pyramids=20 and burial sites which attract adventurers.
 
Emirate of = Makistan=20 (capital Parsa, total pop. 31,500)
    80%=20 of population in the fertile Ust-Urt valley.  The Makistani are = commercially unambitious, the population is spread out in small = villages -=20 there is no substantial architecture.  Makistani consider = haggling to=20 be tiresome work - despite the rich agriculture here.  Makistan = is=20 known for its quality lamellar armour and laminated bows, fine = blankets,=20 rugs and tents.
 
Emirate of = Nicostenia=20 (capital Tameronikas, total pop 65,000)
   =20 Populated by Alasiyans, Nicostenia holds well established port = cities as=20 well as semi nomadic herders in the uplands.
   =20 Luxuries like coffee, tea, spices, sugar and grapes provide good = trade=20 items.  Nicostenia is also the only source of timber, charcoal = and=20 firewood in the Emirates.  The Nicostenian ports are all = cosmopolitan=20 trading communities with mercantile traditions.  Goods are = caravaned=20 from here all over the Emirates, and by ship to the rest of the = Known=20 World. 
 
Emirate of = Dythestenia=20 (capital Ctesiphon, total pop. 7,600)
   =20 Entirely an unpopulated wilderness, bar Ctesiphon which is a small = city that=20 lies at the junction of several important caravan routes.  = Dythestenia=20 has a hostile climate and poor soil, in addition to being plagued by = monster=20 raids and a band of giants in the Altan Tepe range (driven to = Dythestenia by=20 Thyatian punitive raids on them from the south).  The emir has = been=20 forced to hire mercenaries to protect the valuable mines in the = Altan Tepes,=20 as standard Emirates units are ineffective against ambush and = barbarian=20 tactics.
 
SOCIETY
    Every=20 Ylari knows the story of Al-Kalims life.  Alasiyans hold the = fabulous=20 tales of Al-Kalims pilgramage and adventuring to be  no less = true than=20 a battle scouts report - although the tales vary with the=20 storyteller.
    Two=20 factions claim descent from Mohammed Al-Kalim, the = Preceptors(currently in=20 power) and the Kin.
    The=20 Preceptors are more modern, tolerating foreigners and unbelievers, = and not=20 holding mercantile activities to be inferior to the nomadic Alasiyan = culture.
    The=20 Kin are more conservative, treating foreigners with hostility.  = City=20 dwellers, untested by the rigors of life in the desert, are soft and = contemptible.
 
    The=20 Eternal Truth of Al-Kalim is that a man must have Faith and Trust in = the=20 Immortal Guardians, the honor of his fellow man, and the wisdom = obtained=20 thorugh reason and contemplation.  The Nahmeh (the book of = Al-Kalim)=20 directs men on the proper ways to show respect and honour to = Immortals and=20 other men.
   =20 Reverencing the Immortal Guardians - the Nahmeh lists two = rituals. =20 Firstly all True Believers must devote themselves to prayer and = meditation=20 at sunrise and sunset.  Violation of this in a city is very bad = form,=20 in the camp of a nomad it may be a capital offence.  Secondly, = all True=20 Believers must fast for 24 hours from sunset to sunset on the day of = the=20 full moon.  After the fast they must feast, dedicating part of = the food=20 to the Immortals by sharing the feast with the = poor.
   =20 Revering Fellow Man - First, when a True Believer mmets with another = True=20 Believer, the Water Ritual must be observed (a symbolic sharing of=20 water).  Observance of this varies from an offering of wetted = fingers=20 to elaborate ceremonies where coffee and tea is shared in ornamental = cups to=20 the accompanyment of recited verses. 
   =20 Secondly - to lie to True Believer is a grave sin.  The ritual = of the=20 Truthtelling may be observed by the oath "By Al-Kalim and the = Eternal=20 Truth, I swear...".  And man who breaks his word after = this is=20 cursed by the Immortal Guardians and scorned by his=20 fellows.
    The=20 third ritual is the Attendance to the Security of your Fellow Man - = this=20 involves both giving alms to the poor and answering a chiefs summons = to war=20 against Unbelievers.
 
    The=20 government is a structured bureacracy under the authority of the = Sultan in=20 Ylaraum.  The Grand Vizier, the viziers of the various=20 voucheries(government departments) and all the government ministers = are=20 selected by the Sultan with the advice of the council of Preceptors = (or=20 Kin). 
    The=20 Grand Vizier is essentially a prime minister, attending to the = practical=20 aspects of running the nation, and advising the sultan and Council = on=20 important policy matters. 
    This=20 pattern of public-and-exemplary leader and private-and-pragmatic = advisor is=20 mirrored in Emirates government from top to bottom.  There is a = constant contrast between public appearance and practical reality = with the=20 government. 
    The=20 viziers (of course) are inevitably corrupted by their power, being = the=20 behind-the-scenes powers in Ylaraum.  With a strong ruler the = vizier is=20 usually as close to evil as he can be while remaining within the = law. =20 With a weak ruler the vizier is often thoroughly evil, although = there have=20 been cases when wise viziers restrain the excesses of a=20 ruler.
 
   =20 Internal policies include tolerating foreigners, mainting the = emirates=20 military preeminance (especially against the Thyatians), developing = water=20 and agriculture (to fulfill Al-Kalims Dream of the Desert Garden), = keep=20 inter tribal conflicts in check, and exploting the nations=20 resources.
   =20 Rockhome is a traditional ally of the Emirates.  Glantrians are = thought=20 to be evil incarnate - their antipathy towards all clerics and = religions=20 disqualify them as intelligent beings.  Darokin is treated = coldly -=20 there is a war of import tariffs across the Darokin/Ylari = border. =20 Karameikos is a cordial neighbour, being an important sea trade = partner,=20 although monsters being driven into Dythestenia by Karameikan = campaigns is a=20 cause for resentment.  The former colonial overlords in Thyatis = are=20 viewed with hatred.  The Alphatians are hated on principle as = being=20 former colonial overlords, but are officially tolerated (to make the = Thyatians nervous).  Alphatian agents work clandestinely to = intensify=20 frictions between Ylaraum and Thyatis.  The Alphatians have = avoided the=20 Thyatian reputation for treachery, thanks to the skill of their=20 agents.
 
          &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;       =20 ----------------------------------------------
 
Phew!!!!  Hope that=20 was of some use - havn't ever used the Ylaraum stuff (being a Savage = Coast=20 man myself) but tell me how the Ylari stuff=20 goes.
- ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BD6013.3C181BE0-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #207 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Sunday, April 5 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 208 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - PC1 and Alfheim Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian GAZ Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Web Sites [MYSTARA] - My web site has been updated! Re: [MYSTARA] - Emirates of Ylaruam Re: [MYSTARA] - CC maps Re: [MYSTARA] - Emirates of Ylaruam [MYSTARA] - Commentary on the 'Obsolecence' of the Gazatteers Re: [MYSTARA] - Commentary on the 'Obsolecence' of the Gazatteers [MYSTARA] - Maps Wrong! Re: [MYSTARA] - Commentary on the 'Obsolecence' of the Gazatteers Re: [MYSTARA] - Commentary on the 'Obsolecence' of the Gazatteers Re: [MYSTARA] - PC1 and Alfheim Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian GAZ [MYSTARA] - Whoa!!! (and Alphatia) [MYSTARA] - Re: PC1 and Alfheim Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: PC1 and Alfheim Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: PC1 and Alfheim [MYSTARA] - Fwd: Immortals, Deities, and Begginer's Luck ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 16:37:14 EST From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - PC1 and Alfheim << Jamuga was probably comparing it with the Ethengarian steppes :) -------------- Fabrizio Paoli >> Unfortunately not! The Sea of Grass is greater than Canolbarth but it's far too small for such a strong and vigile people like the Ethengars. In "Golden Khan of Ethengar" we have the option to make war against the world, but unfortunately the land is simply not big enough to fulfill this task. The problem is that TSR made the Know World too small. Jamuga Khan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 20:36:56 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian GAZ In a message dated 98-04-04 10:21:08 EST, Magistar2@aol.com writes: >In a message dated 98-04-04 02:00:59 EST, you write: ><< It does appear to be the case that all Glantrians hhave surnames, regardless of species or ethnic background. >> >I don't beleive that is entirely true, I remeber that one wizard had a name something of something, which he then adopted as a surname, other Glantrians >could also not have a surname. Fine -- show me a counterexample of a Glantrian with a single name. I think your example refers to Harald Haskinz, aka Harald of Haskinz. However that "Haskinz" moniker may have originated, it is obvious that the Glantrians came to regard it as a surname. There is no reason that a surname cannot be "of Haskinz" -- we certainly have plenty of European sounding surnames both in Glantri and in the real world that start with "du" or "von", which basically mean "of" in the original languages. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 19:05:15 -0600 From: anowack@juno.com (Aaron E Nowack) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Web Sites On Sat, 4 Apr 1998 13:40:02 +0100 "Robert Fry" writes: >I'm running a WotI campaign - but i have very little information on = Thyatis or Alphatia! (a problem...). Could anyone suggest some worthy = >web sites where I can get some stuff on these two empires? I'm not sure if there are any websites detailing Alphatia and Thyatis, but if you want info the product to get is Dawn of the Emperors. It might be at your local KB Toys, which is where I got my copy. It sels for $4, at least when I got it there. If you don't have them already, you also might find either of the two AD&D Mystara boxed sets there. Hope this helps. Aaron Nowack "In the grim darkness of the far future there is only.... SPAM." http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/5930/ _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 19:36:33 -0600 From: anowack@juno.com (Aaron E Nowack) Subject: [MYSTARA] - My web site has been updated! A couple of days ago I updated my website. It now includes some notes on my campaign, sme non-Mystara projects I'm working on, as well as the AC 1000-1012 Undersea and Underocean timelines. Aaron Nowack "In the grim darkness of the far future there is only.... SPAM." http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/5930/ _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 20:59:20 EST From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Emirates of Ylaruam In a message dated 98-04-04 16:13:37 EST, rmunch@easynet.co.uk writes: >Ylaraum, according to the old Gazetteer (now obsolete because it describes >Ylaruam 13 years in the past before the War of Wrath) That gazetteer is a lot more relevant than many of the others -- I am hard pushed to think of a nation that was less affected by WotI than Ylaruam was. The only parts that would need revision if a post-WotI edition were to be put out would be the parts dealing with relations with foreigners. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 21:33:24 EST From: Namlespoet Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - CC maps In a message dated 98-04-03 04:09:32 EST, k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi writes: << someone asked for CC maps >> I just got a chance to look at your maps! They look great. I understand the work that must have gone into them. I am still trying to learn the program, and have barely finished the coast line AC1013. Thanks for sharing them! Namlespoet@aol.com (a.k.a) Ryan Seratt *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 20:19:08 -0500 From: Derek Harmon Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Emirates of Ylaruam Kaviyd wrote: >In a message dated 98-04-04 16:13:37 EST, rmunch@easynet.co.uk writes: >>Ylaraum, according to the old Gazetteer (now obsolete because it ddescribes >>Ylaruam 13 years in the past before the War of Wrath) >That gazetteer is a lot more relevant than many of the others -- I am hard pushed to think of a nation that was less affected by WotI than Ylaruam was. The only parts that would need revision if a post-WotI edition were to be put out would be the parts dealing with relations with foreigners. I agree, primarily (i) the hard feelings following the fighting with Thyatis over Biazzan and (ii) any reactions surrounding the mystery of why the Dwarves disappeared: IMC many Ylari now think dwarves almost as super- natural and mysterious as elves, and they are more introverted than in AC 1000. But still, to call something "obsolete" in a fantasy game world doesn't seem to apply: I have several campaigns that are pre-WotI. How relevant any GAZ material is depends on when in history you set your cam- paign. 3:)> -- Stonelight *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 09:14:00 -0800 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Commentary on the 'Obsolecence' of the Gazatteers Hey there: I've been ruminating on the fact that several list members seem to hold the opinion that the old Gazetteer information, set in AC1000, is now 'outdated' and 'obsolete' because of the existance of the WotI boxed set and the Almanacs, not to mention the AD&D versions of Glantri and Karameikos. In my opinion, when it comes to RPG's there is no such thing as 'outdated' or 'obsolete' accessories. Every campaign is different, especially in how diffferent resources are used or strung together. As a result, nothing is unusable to a DM. Even if they don't want to use it as it stands, it is still an excellent basis from which to expand a campaign. My Mystara has elements from AD&D modules embeded in it, and even pure fiction created from my own imagination. Anything I can get my hands on about Mystara helps to fuel the creativitiy in me to develop my campaign however I see fit. I, for one, play in the AC1000 era (in fact, of the three campaigns I'm in, all three are presently in AC999). I don't own WotI and don't have any particular intention of using it -- I'm just not into 'wide scale mahem and destruction' -- though I'd like get it some day anyway, if only for the excelent description of all the various Mystaran Immortals I've heard it has. I also do not own any of the TSR Almanacs (though I have looked at the AC1014 net-Almanac out of curiousity). So, to be blatantly honest, I'm just not really interested in post-wrath developments, because my campaign is not there, the campaigns I play in aren't there, and none of them will probably ever go there. I also don't know enough about the events leading up to these new developments to comment, criticize or help with them in any way. Now, in *no* way am I trying to suggest that those of you out there WITH the Wrath and Post-Wrath stuff stop doing development! Heaven's no! I'm just pointing out that there are at least some of us (well, at least one -- me) who are far more interested in the Gazetteer era than anything else. And boy do I think it is neat to see more net-developments set in that era, such as new ideas about areas left undeveloped by TSR, home-brew modules set in that time period, etc. There are lots of things that can still be done for the Gazetteer era. So, in my opinion, Alphatia still sits off the coast of Thyatis and is a place of wonder and magic; Alfheim is still a (reasonably) large forest surrounded by the brushland of Darokin; no one has ever heard of the Master Hule; and (if I owned the Black Eagle Barony Modules) the Black Eagle and his lacky Bargle would be running rampant across the countryside. What I'd really like to see is the above sort of views (made by anyone) being accepted by list members at face value, without additional comments like, 'but, of course, that no longer exists in the outer world' or 'but, you do know, that was taken over by the shaddow elves', etc. Because in *MY* Mystara (as an example), they *DO* still exist, and they *HAVEN'T* been taken over, and I'm not quite ready to do away with them in their current state yet -- which is why they get refered to in pre-wrath terms. Everytime someone gets 'corrected' that a certain feature is now gone, or has changed 'because of WotI', it just bugs me. When such comments are made, it sort of feels like that person is saying that, just because we are working with the Gazetteer era, we are somehow less involved or less "with it", and why haven't we jumped up, found all the accessories for WotI and onwards, and jumped into using the AC1014 era, anyway? Maybe we just don't own the later stuff (heck, I don't even own all of the AC1000 stuff!), or maybe we own it but don't want to use it (yet) -- who knows -- but when the only Mystara things you have are "The Republic of Darokin", "The Elves of Alfheim" and "Tall Tales of the Wee Folk" you make due with what you have! (No, these are not the only items I own. In fact I don't personally own any of those, they were just the titles that popped to mind as I have borrowed and used them lately). Thanks for listening to my rant -- I needed to get that out. :-) Jenni A. M. Merrifield - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- PS: On a slightly related note, I have a Module I wrote set in AC1000 Darokin, based on one of the adventure ideas in that Gaz. I plan to eventually share it with the list but I have to muck up the maps aagain -- they were originally done in pencil and have smudged too much to scan in. - --JAMM - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs strawberry@jamm.com <==> http://www.jamm.com/ <------------------------------------------------------------------> God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. Then God started to think: "I should create things *I* like!" And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 23:45:49 -0500 From: Paul MacDonald Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Commentary on the 'Obsolecence' of the Gazatteers Jenni A. M. Merrifield wrote: >Now, in *no* way am I trying to suggest that those of you out there WITH the Wrath and Post-Wrath stuff stop doing development! Heaven's no! I'm just pointing out that there are at least some of us (well, at least one -- me) who are far more interested in the Gazetteer era than anything else. And boy do I think it is neat to see more net-developments set in that era, such as new ideas about areas left undeveloped by TSR, home-brew modules set in that time period, etc. There are lots of things that can still be done for the Gazetteer era. Well said Jenni! Not only hasn't the Wrath happened, in my Mystara, the planet isn't even hollow! That doesn't mean it may not end up that way at some point, though. I just don't have any of the HW or Wrath/post-Wrath stuff and I'm not in a particular hurry to acquire them :) You can run a fine campaign for years on just the info from one of the Gazeteers. Use the parts you enjoy and develop them as need be. I'm not against running Mystara by the book. I just think there's room enough for variety. Paul MacDonald *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 21:58:01 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Maps Wrong! Oy. Just going over some Broken Lands info today, and I noticed that the maps and details of the areas for the Western and Eastern Broken Lands are completely wrong in the PWAs. The Western Broken Lands (Great Crater) are listed as 26,937 sq.mi. and the Eastern as 11,600 sq.mi. A look at the GAZ10 map shows that the Eastern Borken Lands (both before and after the WotI) should be around 15,568 sq.mi. Larger than they're given credit for. And if the Western area is to be believed, then the WBL are an area lareger than the forest of Aengmor! Come on! The Great Crater region should probably be something more like 12,500 sqmi, according to the map in WotI. And don't get me started on the G:KoM map, which not only uses the exact same boundaries as the GAZ3 map (which shouldn't be the case, according to the PWAs and the maps in WotI), but it increases the size of the Principality of New Averoigne tremendously (compare the two maps if you want), and gives Kolland an exorbitant amount of room for its principality. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 22:18:43 -0700 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Commentary on the 'Obsolecence' of the Gazatteers Jenni A. M. Merrifield >I, for one, play in the AC1000 era (in fact, of the three campaigns I'm in, all three are presently in AC999). I don't own WotI and don't have any >particular intention of using it -- I'm just not into 'wide scale mahem and >destruction' -- though I'd like get it some day anyway, if only for the excelent description of all the various Mystaran Immortals I've heard it has. I also do not own any of the TSR Almanacs (though I have looked at the AC1014 net-Almanac out of curiousity). As a person who also runs all of his Mystara games in the Gazetteer era, I want to say... Buy Wrath of the Immortals and at least one of the Almanacs anyway. WotI has two books, one being a 128 page book with the rules on Immortals, plus details on a large number of the Immortals of Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 15:47:07 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #208 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 48fed04d862936b3da19374562685712 Mystara, their society and their laws, as well as details on the multiverse that Mystara sits in (handy, since most people have no interest in using Planescape). Pretty much all of this book is applicable to the Gazetteer era. The other book is the Immortals Wrath adventure, and is 96 pages. And even it has some info that can be used in a pre-Wrath game. Overall, a "should-have" for Mystara fans of either era. Same kinda thing with the Almanacs. Although portions of the book deal with a post-Wrath Mystara, much of it is applicable to the Gazetteer era. The concise country and geography information that takes up half the book is worthhe price alone. This section is almost a complete setting in itself, and can save a person a lot of page flipping to find important information. A few of the summaries will be wrong (i.e. Alphatia and Alfheim), but most of it is just as applicable in a Gazetteer era game. They also feature handy character listings for important people of the Known World, including stats and history summaries. The miscellaneous stuff, such as a complete listing and description and listing of the holidays of the KW, a full year's worth of weather, and the orbital patterns of the floating continents in the Hollow World are all just damn handy. That, and the Almanacs are very cheap. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com ICQ #4253672 "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 05:41:56 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Commentary on the 'Obsolecence' of the Gazatteers In a message dated 98-04-05 00:29:06 EST, Leroy writes: << Jenni A. M. Merrifield >I, for one, play in the AC1000 era (in fact, of the three campaigns I'm in, all three are presently in AC999). I don't own WotI and don't have any >particular intention of using it -- I'm just not into 'wide scale mahem and >destruction' -- though I'd like get it some day anyway, if only for the excelent description of all the various Mystaran Immortals I've heard it has. I also do not own any of the TSR Almanacs (though I have looked at the AC1014 net-Almanac out of curiousity). As a person who also runs all of his Mystara games in the Gazetteer era, I want to say... Buy Wrath of the Immortals and at least one of the Almanacs anyway. >> I have to agree with Leroy on this. WotI is a good source of info. The info on Immortals is a boon. The adventure book is also pretty good if you have need to sink my beloved Alphatia. Or feel the need to drive the Alfheim from their beloved Canolbarth. That is after corrupting. I own WotI but have not actually played the adventure. I have taken events in it into account and integrated them into my AY2000+ Timeline. The Immortals Fury is not a bad little adventure. Allston did a pretty good job in putting it together. Perhaps someday, I'll actually run it. Until then, I am most content in keeping Allstrick living in Glantri City living the good life. The Gazs are really good. Even the perceived bad ones are good. They offer more info than the PWAs. So good are the Gaz that it is them that every one of us Mystarans desire to possess. A complete library of Gazs is a must and the core of a thorough Mystara collection. True some of the Gazs could have been better. DotE could have done some added detail on Alphatia. I would have liked to seen Gazs on the Heldannic Freeholds as well as Wendar. Oh well. It must be remembered that the Gaz detail a nation up to AY2000 (AC1000 for the barbarian Thyatian calendar). As nations, some info is alterred by the PCs themselves. In closing, just remember that not all campaigns are set during the last documented time period. Remember that the Gazs are the best complilation of info on a single nation. Remember, that beggars cannot be choosers. If you need to change stuff for your own campaign, do it. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 06:07:35 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - PC1 and Alfheim In a message dated 98-04-04 16:53:05 EST, you write: << << Jamuga was probably comparing it with the Ethengarian steppes :) -------------- Fabrizio Paoli >> Unfortunately not! The Sea of Grass is greater than Canolbarth but it's far too small for such a strong and vigile people like the Ethengars. In "Golden Khan of Ethengar" we have the option to make war against the world, but unfortunately the land is simply not big enough to fulfill this task. The problem is that TSR made the Know World too small.>> Jamuga Khan JKhan has a point. The Known World is small. Looking at the any maps the KW of Brun is miniscule as compared to Mystara as a whole. In particular, Thyatis proper is but a dot on the map. Pretty measily for a people that factor so much into Mystara. Now Mystara has a great deal of unexplored area. I get all giddy just thinking at the potential of Davania and Skothar. For all of its "big boy" attitude, it would be interesting to see Thyatis faced with a rival that dwarfed the Alphatians. The Thyatian tribes fled Davania. Might prove interesting to see a Davanian based empire that pushed them out. Possibly expanding to within striking distance of Brun within the next 100 years or so. As for the Ethie- Well I have to disagree with JKhan on their capability of world conquest. IMO the Ethie's worst enemies are themselves and their traditionalism as cavalry. True Ethie cavalry are probably the best on the surface world. But cavalry cannot win every battle. You have to have infantry to take and hold the ground. If the Ethie were to hire mercenary infantry or establish their own infantry, then they would fair much better against the broken terrain of Glantri. Such terrain is ill suited for the highly disciplined attack ranks of the Ethie. Now if the Ethie could get Glantri to invade the steppes, then the Ethie would have the advantage and decimate the Glantrians despite their heavy magist artillery. Plus the Ethie are not numerous. PWA gives them about 10,000 troops. Not too good for world conquest. The steppes cannot support a large enough population to mobilize a force of 50,000+ that would be needed begin such an undertaking. Hmm.....I'll meddle with this a bit and see if I can put together an Ethie expansion that would work and also benefit the Ethie. Of course Glantri will have be in the mix. Probably will include Rockhome as an ally. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 06:23:21 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian GAZ I'd like to thank Jenni, Jeff, and JKhan for their input on the Alphatian names. It was a big help to be able to scroll down and pick a name from a list instead of making one up on the spot. Several names also helped to insire other names. This help enabled me the extra time and brain bandwidth to name the vessels of the Randel Navy. Not all of the offered names will be used in the Randel Gaz. I am saving several for the next Alphatian Kingdom.Thanks. Now for my names, I chose a path of free reign. As long as the name is extravagant and such, it would suffice. One tactic I chose was alterring everyday names. Reversing them (Shannon= Nonnahs) and adding to them (Don= Donneleau). And so on. Heck, I even randomly hit some keys to get stuff like "kgfkuffuee" which was cleaned up to make names like Kjuffkuee. These random keyings were few and more akin to desperation. Now a question for the List- Once this puppy is finished, I do wish to present it to the List as a humble offering. Now I know the sending of attachments is not a favored activity. Would this be a problem. The file would be in any format MS Word will allow. If it is a problem then I would have to look at sending the file to all that are interested, based on requests. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 14:09:09 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Whoa!!! (and Alphatia) Didn't intend "obsolete" as a damning of pre Wrath gamers - quite the contrary (i've just completed a Savage Coast campaign set in 1000AC, and am now starting on a "brink of war" game in Karameikos around 1003AC. I like Alphatia too much to play after Wrath! Just reminding you that the Gazeteers are set before Wrath, as newbies looking at the Mystara stuff on the Web are most likely to find all the excellent new stuff, set post Wrath. PS speaking of Alphatia, sadly living in the UK old stuff like Dawn of the Emperors is a little hard to come by. But if anyone can tell me a source of old D+D stuff (perhaps mail order?) that I can get a hold of, I would be most grateful. Cheerz! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: 05 Apr 1998 10:19:48 -0500 From: Alan Shutko Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: PC1 and Alfheim >>>>>"A" == Alex295 writes: A> JKhan has a point. The Known World is small. Looking at the any A> maps the KW of Brun is miniscule as compared to Mystara as a A> whole. In particular, Thyatis proper is but a dot on the A> map. Pretty measily for a people that factor so much into Mystara. I disagree. How big is Spain? Yet they owned half the world at one point. It's a very small area, but it seems to have a good equivalence in Europe, which was also a very small area filled with small countries. Communication is difficult in general in Mystara, unless you have lots of mages to do courier duty. Most don't.... - -- Alan Shutko - By consent of the corrupted We don't care how they do it in New York. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 12:28:15 -0400 From: Amaldis@concentric.net Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: PC1 and Alfheim < JKhan has a point. The Known World is small. Looking at the any A> maps the KW of Brun is miniscule as compared to Mystara as a A> whole. In particular, Thyatis proper is but a dot on the A> map. Pretty measily for a people that factor so much into Mystara. I disagree. How big is Spain? Yet they owned half the world at one point. It's a very small area, but it seems to have a good equivalence in Europe, which was also a very small area filled with small countries. Communication is difficult in general in Mystara, unless you have lots of mages to do courier duty. Most don't....>> Or look at England at the height of its colonial empire. England owned Canada, Australia, India, the "best" parts of Africa(sure France had more, but what good is a lot of desert?), pieces of China and South America, Scotland, Ireland, Wales, New Zealand, and lots of nice little things throughout the world. And England is just a tiny little piece of a tiny little island off the coast of a relatively small continent. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 12:36:41 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: PC1 and Alfheim In a message dated 98-04-05 11:43:26 EDT, Alan Shutko writes: << >>>>> "A" == Alex295 writes: A> JKhan has a point. The Known World is small. Looking at the any A> maps the KW of Brun is miniscule as compared to Mystara as a A> whole. In particular, Thyatis proper is but a dot on the A> map. Pretty measily for a people that factor so much into Mystara. <> The same could be said about RW Rome or Greece or even England. But we are not talking about the Real World. We are talking about a fantasy setting. The rules are not the same. Take Spain for example. Spain's holdings did spread all over the world. And Spain found much sucess against the primitive cultures. Against those spears and clubs, Toledo steel proved a great advantage. The Ethengar's neighbors are on a more equal standing. Now on the European Continent, Spain had to fight differently, with brute force. This force came from political marriages for allies and armies raised and maintained with all those gold galleons. Also, population wise Spain was on an equal footing with its neighbors. And Spain did not always suceed on the homefront. The two lost Spanish Armadas prove that. Pretty impressive since England was a minor player compared to Spain who was the richest and most powerful nation on the continent. <> Well this is where Ethengar deviates from Spain again. Ethengar is basically a loner politically. They have some ties with Rockhome due to the dwarf guy that advises the Golden Khan. A treaty of non aggression with the Heldannic Knights that should last only as long as each wishes it to. You do not here of political marriages of Ethie to outsiders. No set up industry to maintain a war footing. No knowledge of seige warfare. All the times this has been attempted they prove disasterous (Heldannic Knights & Glantri). The logistics of a Ethie war are displayed in RW history. The Hun did sweep through Europe. With some help of their Gaul and Visogoth infantry. They also fared ill while forced to loiter for any periods. Their horses quickly overgrazed the lands. Plus new varieties of grasses and foliage often made them sick. I think this was against Rome. The battle saw the Romans using the Hun composite recurve bow with great efficiency. Dang, I should remember this battle. It was the one that Attilla vowed to use the Emperor's skull as a drinking vessel. It was the one that Attilla had to retreat for the steppes, leaving behind the spoils. He died shortly after this. Oh, and when Attilla rode across Europe, he had alot more cavalry troops than 10,000. I'd have to check, but I think he took around 60,000 Hun cavalry and an equal number of Germanic tribesmen infantry. Or you could do this. Run the Ethie against the Glantrians using WarMachine. Then expect to use them against the Heldannic Knights. And the rest of the nations. World conquest you gotta go against everyone eventually. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 15:46:28 EDT From: Magistar2 Subject: [MYSTARA] - Fwd: Immortals, Deities, and Begginer's Luck This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --part0_891805588_boundary Content-ID: <0_891805588@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII - --part0_891805588_boundary Content-ID: <0_891805588@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline From: Magistar2 Return-path: To: mystara@mpgn.com Subject: Immortals, Deities, and Begginer's Luck Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 15:45:03 EDT Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi everyone! I am a new Karkeiman Mage to the wonderous world of Mystara so I have a few inquires about this wonderous world... [Note: The only, and I do meen ONLY, information I have I got off back order clearence from K-B toys, I have Dawn of the Emporers, Glantri: Kingdom of Magic, and lastly The Campaign Setting, Karekemois: Kingdom of adventure.] 1. What other information would be essential for a good campaign in Mystara. 2. Are their any good Mystara web sites 3. My computer is old, could someone please send me the RTF versions from the TSR website? 4. Are their any real deities, or are their only immortals, which I elevated to deity status in my game. 5. Was Darkomir ever a monarchy? 6. Would you forgive me since I am babelling like an idiot? Thanks, bye. - --part0_891805588_boundary-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #208 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, April 6 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 209 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Source for Out-of-Print Mystara Stuff [MYSTARA] - Attachments - (was Alphatian GAZ) Re: [MYSTARA] - Commentary on the 'Obsolecence' of the Gazatteers Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals, Deities, and Begginer's Luck Re: [MYSTARA] - Commentary on the 'Obsolecence' of the Gazattee Re: [MYSTARA] - CC maps Re: [MYSTARA] - CC maps Re: [MYSTARA] - Maps Wrong! [MYSTARA] - Magistar!!!! (And some thoughts on Gods and Immortals and Spelljammer and suchlike) Re: [MYSTARA] - Commentary on the 'Obsolecence' of the Gazatteers Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: PC1 and Alfheim Re: [MYSTARA] - Attachments - (was Alphatian GAZ) Re: [MYSTARA] - Commentary on the 'Obsolecence' of the Gazatteers Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar taking over the world (was Re: PC1 and Re: [MYSTARA] - Sale - Reruns Various Mystaran Stuff Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: PC1 and Alfheim ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 13:54:06 -0600 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Source for Out-of-Print Mystara Stuff Robert Fry >PS speaking of Alphatia, sadly living in the UK old stuff like Dawn of >the Emperors is a little hard to come by. But if anyone can tell me a source of old D+D stuff (perhaps mail order?) that I can get a hold of, I would be most grateful. There are links to several online game stores at the MML home page, all of which carry Mystara stuff. The MML homepage is at... http://www.lesbois.com/members/malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com ICQ #4253672 "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 14:17:43 -0600 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Attachments - (was Alphatian GAZ) Alex295 meandered fecklessly... >Now a question for the List- Once this puppy is finished, I do wish to present it to the List as a humble offering. Now I know the sending of attachments is not a favored activity. Would this be a problem. The file would >be in any format MS Word will allow. If it is a problem then I would have to >look at sending the file to all that are interested, based on requests. Attachments are officially "evil," and not allowed. They cause problems with the digest, and many people have problems recieving attachments over a mailing list. There are three solutions: convert it into text and post it as any other letter, send it out to those who request it, or put it on a web page. If you don't have a web page I am sure there are numerous people on the list who would volunteer to host it. Heck, I will host it, if necessary. Shawn Stanely might be a good person to contact, as his page is the Official MML Archive Page. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com ICQ #4253672 "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 17:56:50 EDT From: BoBo II Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Commentary on the 'Obsolecence' of the Gazatteers Go for it! Folks should feel free developing adventures in The Forty Years War of Glantri, The "Lawrence of Arabia" days of the Emirates, or the Alphatian invasion of Thyatis that saw the assencion of Thincol. Think of the possibilities a party could have the first day Thyatian ships sailed into Marlinev. The Known World is a great setting no matter what your year your campaign calader is showing. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 10:00:21 EST From: "Shawn Stanley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals, Deities, and Begginer's Luck >Hi everyone! I am a new Karkeiman Mage to the wonderous world of Mystara so I have a few inquires about this wonderous world... Welcome >[Note: The only, and I do meen ONLY, information I have I got off back order clearence from K-B toys, I have Dawn of the Emporers, Glantri: Kingdom of Magic, and lastly The Campaign Setting, Karekemois: Kingdom of adventure.] >1. What other information would be essential for a good campaign in Mystara. That sort of depends on a number of things, where you want to set up your campaign, in what time period you want to play your campaign and what products you can get your hands on - at a reasonable price. The last thing of course being the limiting factor. The Gazetters, there are fourteen of these which deal with the countries of the Known World for example Glantri, Karameikos, Darokin, Ethengar etc, are excellent sources of information and apparently from popular opinon on this list the Glantri and Karameikos Gazetters are better than their boxed set counterparts. Of course if you don't know yet where you want to set your campaign one of the Poor Wizards Almanacs (not Joshuans) gives you a brief overview of almost every area of Mystara which has seen print in previous products. If you got your hands on one of these products and found an area/or areas that you were interested in then the products to best buy after this would fit into place very easily. Until then it might not be in your best interest to buy products willy-nilly, unless you're richer than me for example. >2. Are their any good Mystara web sites As it happens (with a hint of shock and wonderment in my voice) my site http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 is the archive for things written by people on the Mystara Mailing List and so contains a lot of great information. Though there are a lot of other great sites out there access to which can be gained from the links section on my page. >3. My computer is old, could someone please send me the RTF versions from the TSR website? I don't quite get the logic behind that one. >4. Are their any real deities, or are their only immortals, which I elevated to deity status in my game. In the official version of Mystara no there isn't. Of course this need not have any bearing on your version of Mystara. >5. Was Darkomir ever a monarchy? Sort of depends who/what Darkomir/a Darkomir is/was really. >6. Would you forgive me since I am babelling like an idiot? Who said you're babbling? The trouble is that things *never* get better, they just stay the same, only more so. - Terry Pratchett, Eric stan http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 05:31:02 +0000 From: wizzard@mail.intcom.de Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Commentary on the 'Obsolecence' of the Gazattee Hi folks >I, for one, play in the AC1000 era (in fact, of the three campaigns I'm in, all three are presently in AC999). Ahhh, what a pleasure. I thought "we" are off this world. Although I do own WotI and find it really fascinating, my own (large scale) campaign it currently set AC1001. Well I´m planning to use WotI as a backplot but I´ve changed ever now and them. Just think of the "discussion" about Minrothaddean surrender to Thyatis that I couldn´t imagine because of the development they are going to have in MY campaign. Gazetters are the best background info that fueled my fantasy and creativity. Not always is a new thing the better one. Don´t get me wrong I love WotI, but it´s different. It´s far to loose for such a worldspanning plot and the end theme is well quite unsatisfactory!! Strong support for Jenni. Wizzard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:45:38 +0300 (EET DST) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - CC maps On Fri, 3 Apr 1998, Alex295 wrote: >As with JKhan, I too had difficulty in downloading the maps. I actually had no problem in the actual download. I just could not veiw them. As Leroy "meandered" I do not have CC nor do I have CC2. Probably will get it. What I have seen looks good. >Besides it beats those darn bitmaps. The whole point with CC maps is that you can change them quickly and easily if you need to in your campaign (e.g. putting a crater on Glantri map is easy). With regular graphics, you have to painstakingly delete and paint pixels. ****************************************** Aleksei Andrievski k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi aka Solmyr, the Archmage of the Azure Star Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 10:51:15 +0200 From: "Johan van Niekerk" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - CC maps Sorry for coming in late on this but could anyone tell me where to download these from ? >>As with JKhan, I too had difficulty in downloading the maps. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 12:32:45 +0300 (EET DST) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Maps Wrong! On Sat, 4 Apr 1998, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote: >And don't get me started on the G:KoM map, which not only uses the exact same boundaries as the GAZ3 map (which shouldn't be the case, according to the PWAs and the maps in WotI), but it increases the size of the Principality of New Averoigne tremendously (compare the two maps if you want), and gives Kolland an exorbitant amount of room for its principality. Yes, G:KoM's map is not perfect (just look at Boldavia). However, I find that its version of the Great Crater makes more sense. If you place the crater according to the map in WotI, Caurenze shouldn't even have been much affected! ****************************************** Aleksei Andrievski k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi aka Solmyr, the Archmage of the Azure Star Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 13:10:18 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Magistar!!!! (And some thoughts on Gods and Immortals and Spelljammer and suchlike) The worthy website that I start surfing from is Shawns Website - loads of neat stuff there, and links many other sites (Herve Musseau's Alphatian stuff I particularly like). http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/index.html Concerning the Immortals, in my own campaign if have sort of integrated it in with the gods of other world - and some Immortals are gods, and some Gods are Immortals (doh!). Basically I have them coexisting somewhat uneasily - but hey, friction like that makes for a good campaign... I consider the Immortals to be more capable of gross acts of power than gods (compare WotI to Legends and Lore) - but Gods are omniscient, and Immortals aren't - and there are a few other points too. Ah well, it's these little differences that make life interesting. I was even going to have the Old Ones akin to Chaos (from Krynn) and Lord O (god knows how you spell it) from the Realms - maybe relatives or something - except that on Mystara the Gods were somehow supplanted by the Immortals (probably due to the designs of some God - its notable that many Immortals, like Ixion, Thanatos and Odin cannot remember their mortal lives - perhaps they are Gods too!). Concerning Spelljammer - I place Mystara in its own little universe, resembling our own universe (ie no crystal spheres). In a friends Spelljammer campaign he placed what he called the Rift in the Phlogiston - he didnt actually decide where it went, so I asked him if he would put Mystaraspace at the other end of the rift (he agreed). Sorry, but round here we have many campaigns and DMs, and we like to see if we can match them all together! And concerning Planescape - I don't like the AD+D demons and stuff (too gross when the PCs start ensnaring them) so I say that the Immortals dont like them either (as they are the servants of the Gods of the Outer Planes) and so they find it very difficult to enter Mystara. This seems in keeping with the rest of the setting, as in Glantri there is a rather tricky artifact (the Infernal Five Headed Wand) that summons demons - an feat normally performable by a 6th level spell!(ensnarement) (Of course if I had stuck to the D+D rules than you would need the 9th level gate spell to summon demons... oh well). If you're looking for a bit more idle banter, I've said that the Demiplane of Nightmares is pretty well the same as the Nightmare Lands in Ravenloft (after expanding the Nightmare Lands domain) and that the Old Ones are actually imprisoned there by some past Power - now they are unable to directly influence Mystara, so they must do it through Nightmare creatures and dreams. I am rabbiting on here I know... I'd be interested to see how others have integrated Mystara into any other settings (particularly Planescape)!!! Cheerz for now... The DM 'o Dread, Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 09:43:47 EST From: Neal Daskal Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Commentary on the 'Obsolecence' of the Gazatteers >I, for one, play in the AC1000 era (in fact, of the three campaigns I'm in, all three are presently in AC999). I don't own WotI and don't have any particular intention of using it -- I'm just not into 'wide scale mahem and destruction' -- though I'd like get it some day anyway, if only for the excelent description of all the various Mystaran Immortals I've heard it has. I also do not own any of the TSR Almanacs (though I have looked at the AC1014 net-Almanac out of curiousity). So, to be blatantly honest, I'm just not really interested in post-wrath developments, because my campaign is not there, the campaigns I play in aren't there, and none of them will probably ever go there. I also don't know enough about the events leading up to these new developments to comment, criticize or help with them in any way. For me, the best part of the WotI set was the series of adventures for the PCs. They first meet Rheddrian at Corran Keep and free him from the Mirror Shield. They are left in doubt about who or what he is or was. Many adventures later, he seeks them out and sends them to investigate the Alphatian gnome tunnel to the Hollow World where they meet the engaging fellow (whose real name escapes me) later known as Drunken Fortnell. Still later, Rheddrian has them search out Fortnell in an adventure which takes them to the shrine of the false Immortal. Finally, they meet Etienne D'Ambreville at the Nucleus of the Spheres. All these are (IMHO of course) excellent adventures. And ... they don't need the Great War to make them fly. The adventures themselves are peripheral to the envents of the War. Even the draining of magic and the destruction of Alphatia which were written into the story can be dispensed with without losing the wonder of the characters (Rheddrian, Fortnell, Lady Lydia, Etienne) and plot lines. I'd play the adventures anyway, even if I had decided that the War never happens. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:10:18 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: PC1 and Alfheim In a message dated 98-04-05 12:47:09 EDT, you write: << < JKhan has a point. The Known World is small. Looking at the any A> maps the KW of Brun is miniscule as compared to Mystara as a A> whole. In particular, Thyatis proper is but a dot on the A> map. Pretty measily for a people that factor so much into Mystara. I disagree. How big is Spain? Yet they owned half the world at one point. It's a very small area, but it seems to have a good equivalence in Europe, which was also a very small area filled with small countries. Communication is difficult in general in Mystara, unless you have lots of mages to do courier duty. Most don't....>> Or look at England at the height of its colonial empire. England owned Canada, Australia, India, the "best" parts of Africa(sure France had more, but what good is a lot of desert?), pieces of China and South Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 15:15:38 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #209 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: f7d6d944dad1e01775d4ec4091fffe51 America, Scotland, Ireland, Wales, New Zealand, and lots of nice little things throughout the world. And England is just a tiny little piece of a tiny little island off the coast of a relatively small continent. Do not forget Macedonia, who under the leadership of Philip and his "great" son Alexander (nice name) conquered just about everyone. Not too shabby for an extremely small nation. Then there is Rome, who started as a town/villiage and who also eventually conquered just about everyone. Somewhere I have the number of troops Rome used against the Etruscans in its first step to Empire building. IIRC it was small. This contrast with the size of the later Roman Legions (2nd thru 4th Centuries) which numbered some 320,000 infantry and 60,000 cavalry. Considering the land volume of the Empire that number is a little small. Now by the 4th Century AD a goodly chunk of these troop numbers were being filled by vassel "barbarian" troops. But that is another story. But let us get back to Ethie world conquest. England, France, Spain, Rome, Macedonia, etc. all gained land by conquest. They followed up by an assimilation of the culture by trade, blood, politics, and religion. Rome played against rival factions, supporting a favored side. They then stepped in militarily. The placed native rulers, guided by Roman governors and watched the tribute flow into the treasuries. The Macedonian troops married conquered lands women thus binding the inhabitants by blood and marriage ties. They also established trade. The longterm affects were not easily seen as Alexander died and his Generals broke the Empire with their internal strife. England used superior technology to conquer lands (Brown Bess vs. bows and spears). Then they opened their nations markets to these lands endearing the populace to the modern goods. This also sapped the local markets who could not compete against the industrialized England. Spain used the technology to conquer the natives. They impressed their religion upon the populace. They extracted gold. And they pretty much destroyed the native cultures and replaced them with their own. And so...... Now I ask, could the Ethengar not only conquer its neighbors, but also maintain them as vassel states? The Ethie are too different from the neighbors. There would be too much of a culture clash for peaceful assimilation. Darokinians are not likely to assume a nomadic lifestyle. Glantrians sure as heck are not going to. You would probably see the Ethie be assimilated into these cultures. Such assimilation would cause variation and quite possibly cause internal strife within the Ethengar Empire as the conquerors assume the social structure of the subject territories (a sort of quasi nationalism). Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:25:29 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Attachments - (was Alphatian GAZ) In a message dated 98-04-05 16:29:49 EDT, Leroy lectured: << Attachments are officially "evil," and not allowed. They cause problems with the digest, and many people have problems recieving attachments over a mailing list. There are three solutions: convert it into text and post it as any other letter, send it out to those who request it, or put it on a web page. If you don't have a web page I am sure there are numerous people on the list who would volunteer to host it. Heck, I will host it, if necessary. Shawn Stanely might be a good person to contact, as his page is the Official MML Archive Page. >> I thought attachments were taboo. Just wanted to make sure since attachments do find their way on the List. Be it these attachments are mostly text files and not MS WPS or DOC files with clipart illustrations (though I am debating on removing the illustrations.) Web Sites- I do not want to seem to impose my Randel thingy on someone who may be limited MB wise. Shawn has been most gracious in allowing my Operation Hydra. I think I'll submit Randel to a consortium of folks that showed interest in the Alphatian GAZ to get their impression of the material. MMLers such as Jeff have already seen some of the work and contributed to it. Jeff is doing Bettellyn so we had to work out some things between our two kingdoms. After such time, I see what I can do to present it to the rest of the List. I am most anxious to get this out for public veiwing. The Randel description is big, and still growing. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:42:22 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Commentary on the 'Obsolecence' of the Gazatteers In a message dated 98-04-06 10:07:52 EDT, you write: << For me, the best part of the WotI set was the series of adventures for the PCs. They first meet Rheddrian at Corran Keep and free him from the Mirror Shield. They are left in doubt about who or what he is or was. Many adventures later, he seeks them out and sends them to investigate the Alphatian gnome tunnel to the Hollow World where they meet the engaging fellow (whose real name escapes me) later known as Drunken Fortnell. Still later, Rheddrian has them search out Fortnell in an adventure which takes them to the shrine of the false Immortal. Finally, they meet Etienne D'Ambreville at the Nucleus of the Spheres. All these are (IMHO of course) excellent adventures. And ... they don't need the Great War to make them fly. The adventures themselves are peripheral to the envents of the War. Even the draining of magic and the destruction of Alphatia which were written into the story can be dispensed with without losing the wonder of the characters (Rheddrian, Fortnell, Lady Lydia, Etienne) and plot lines. I'd play the adventures anyway, even if I had decided that the War never happens. >> Good point. The adventures that make up the Immortals Fury Campaign can be played without the Great War. If you think about it, there are periods in which the War does not really factor. And even in the TimeLine, hooks are suggested if the PCs are in the area. IMO such a large war should not be the focus of the PCs anyway. If involved, they should be on the fringes doing tasks that normal troops are ill prepared to perform. Besides, name level PCs have more glamorous things to do than join the ranks and chance a volly of arrows. Plus, soldier's pay is minor compared to doing "special jobs" more akin to a PC's experience. Also, a powerful fighter, cleric, mage, etc. does not mean a PC is a good soldier. For instance- in single combat a Roman stood little chance against a "barbarian" opponent. The "barbarians" were usually taller and stronger than the typical Roman. A Roman Legionaire was pretty tough when versed in the art of war. This Roman art of war had the well disciplined ranks standing with sheilds locked in the famous testudo formation. Such discipline takes training and skills much different than that of an adventurer. What a soldier may lack in XP level, he makes up for in the combined XP of the combat unit. Boy, did I ramble on. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 17:01:19 +0000 (GMT) From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar taking over the world (was Re: PC1 and >In a message dated 98-04-05 12:47:09 EDT, Alex wrote: >Now I ask, could the Ethengar not only conquer its neighbors, but also maintain them as vassel states? >The Ethie are too different from the neighbors. There would be too much of a culture clash for peaceful assimilation. Darokinians are not likely to assume a nomadic lifestyle. Glantrians sure as heck are not going to. You would probably see the Ethie be assimilated into these cultures. Such assimilation would cause variation and quite possibly cause internal strife within the Ethengar Empire as the conquerors assume the social structure of the subject territories (a sort of quasi nationalism). >Alex To look at how the Ethengarians would conquer people, just look at their real world equivalents, the Mongols. They held the largest land empire the world has ever seen, streching from the Pacific to the Danube (I think, was one of these European rivers anyway :) ). They conquered the richest countries including China, Persia, Egypt (I think! That may have been where they got kicked back). And they destroyed the two armies that Europe sent to meet them. There was no army of consequence between them and the atlantic when the Mongols turned away from Europe, because the Khan had died back on the Steppes. Yup, the Mongols were very capable of taking and holding lands, but they didn't do it wonderfully. They didn't like peasants for instance, didn't see the point of farming and would have happily slaughtered all the chinese farmers if one of their chinese advisors didn't step in and explain that farming could lead to miners being fed, and lots of silver. Mostly, the Mongols left the same basic social structures in place, just left them without an army or heads of government, and lots of tribute was sent to the Steppes. Although in some places they did move huge amounts of artisans and metal workers and other skilled people to Mongolia.... Anyhoo, if the RW mongols can have empires larger than Rome, Alexander, etc, why can't the Ethengarians! (I'd rekon because they're from too small an area, they're surrounded by mountains, and they're up against countries which are closer to 15th Century Europe than 13th Century...but just IMHO :) ) gordon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:59:30 -0500 (CDT) From: Stephen Dolan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sale - Reruns Various Mystaran Stuff >>Mark of Amber $4 (about a dozen) >>Kingdom of Karameikos $7 (8 or 9) >>Glantri, Kingdom of Magic $7 (only saw a couple) Red Steel $7 (only a couple copies) I would LOVE it if you would pick up the two AD&D settings for me... Steve *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 12:14:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: PC1 and Alfheim Alex, I agree with your conclusions about Ethengar but I think there's one place your reasoning could be clearer ... the reason Ethengar wouldn't be able to assimilate the surrounding nations isn't cultural difference (after all, the Spanish are pretty damn different from various Native American cultures, and the Greeks were pretty different from the various Semitic and Hamitic middle eastern groups they conquered under Alexander), it's a matter of styles of social organization. The RW models for the Ethengar, the Mongols, also conquered a huge area of the world, but were assimilated into the cultures they conquered rather than vice versa. This was more or less because they didn't have any complex state bureaucracy of their own, nor school systems, institutionalized religion, etc. ... when they conquered China and Russia and India, they just used the local institutions and inserted themselves as rulers, which meant their political influence extended only as far as individual monarchs. You could say the same thing in some ways about the German barbarians who broke apart the Roman Empire; they certainly changed the surface-level political structures, but much of the culture and definitely the language remained unchanged. France, Spain and Italy seem to have a lot more elements of "Roman" culture than they do "German". So, given the relatively fluid political structure of the Ethengar Khanate, it is likely that if Moglai (or whoever) were to conquer the KW or some part, he would install himself as ruler but pretty much make use of existing bureaucratic and religious arrangements, meaning that the "political culture" would remain unchanged, and as soon as Moglai offed it, his kingdom would break up amongst his sons and generals, and these smaller kingdoms might tend eventually to assume boundaries that were fairly similar to those of the original countries, which would maintain their original language, etc. ... IMC I ran an alternate version of X10 in which Hule conquered Darokin, and THIS did have an impact ... but even there, Darokin maintained its original culture even though the Diviner thought police were running amok trying to stamp out heresy (which by their standards included just about anything that just about anybody in Darokin might believe) ... i even got really nasty and had Etienne's Temple monks collaborating with the Huleans (in spite of their clerical nature) to track down fugitive Darokinian priests who had fled into Glantrian territory. Anyway now i'm rambling again. gotta go, m@2 "You're not really in love with yourself - you're just in love with the idea of being in love with yourself" - said to me by one of the two little fellas who hang out on either of my shoulders ... I can't remember which ... On Mon, 6 Apr 1998, Alex295 wrote: >In a message dated 98-04-05 12:47:09 EDT, you write: ><< < JKhan has a point. The Known World is small. Looking at the any AA> maps the KW of Brun is miniscule as compared to Mystara as a A> whole. In particular, Thyatis proper is but a dot on the A> map. Pretty measily for a people that factor so much into Mystara. >I disagree. How big is Spain? Yet they owned half the world at one point. >It's a very small area, but it seems to have a good equivalence in Europe, which was also a very small area filled with small countries. Communication is difficult in general in Mystara, unless you have lots of mages to do courier duty. Most don't....>> >Or look at England at the height of its colonial empire. England owned Canada, Australia, India, the "best" parts of Africa(sure France had more, but what good is a lot of desert?), pieces of China and South America, Scotland, Ireland, Wales, New Zealand, and lots of nice little things throughout the world. And England is just a tiny little piece of a tiny little island off the coast of a relatively small continent. >Do not forget Macedonia, who under the leadership of Philip and his "great" son Alexander (nice name) conquered just about everyone. Not too shabby for an extremely small nation. Then there is Rome, who started as a town/villiage and who also eventually conquered just about everyone. Somewhere I have the number of troops Rome used against the Etruscans in its first step to Empire building. IIRC it was small. This contrast with the size of the later Roman Legions (2nd thru 4th Centuries) which numbered some 320,000 infantry and 60,000 cavalry. Considering the land volume of the Empire that number is a little small. Now by the 4th Century AD a goodly chunk of these troop numbers were being filled by vassel "barbarian" troops. But that is another story. >But let us get back to Ethie world conquest. England, France, Spain, Rome, Macedonia, etc. all gained land by conquest. They followed up by an assimilation of the culture by trade, blood, politics, and religion. >Rome played against rival factions, supporting a favored side. They then stepped in militarily. The placed native rulers, guided by Roman governors and watched the tribute flow into the treasuries. The Macedonian troops married conquered lands women thus binding the inhabitants by blood and marriage ties. They also established trade. The longterm affects were not easily seen as Alexander died and his Generals broke the Empire with their internal strife. >England used superior technology to conquer lands (Brown Bess vs. bows and spears). Then they opened their nations markets to these lands endearing the populace to the modern goods. This also sapped the local markets who could not compete against the industrialized England. Spain used the technology to conquer the natives. They impressed their religion upon the populace. They extracted gold. And they pretty much destroyed the native cultures and replaced them with their own. >And so...... >Now I ask, could the Ethengar not only conquer its neighbors, but also maintain them as vassel states? >The Ethie are too different from the neighbors. There would be too much of a culture clash for peaceful assimilation. Darokinians are not likely to assume a nomadic lifestyle. Glantrians sure as heck are not going to. You would probably see the Ethie be assimilated into these cultures. Such assimilation would cause variation and quite possibly cause internal strife within the Ethengar Empire as the conquerors assume the social structure of the subject territories (a sort of quasi nationalism). >Alex >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #209 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, April 7 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 210 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - PC1 and Alfheim Re: [MYSTARA] - PC1 and Alfheim Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: PC1 and Alfheim Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian GAZ Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian GAZ Re: [MYSTARA] - Whoa!!! (and Alphatia) Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals, Deities, and Begginer's Luck Re: [MYSTARA] - Sale - Reruns Various Mystaran Stuff Re: [MYSTARA] - Sale - Reruns Various Mystaran Stuff Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals, Deities, and Begginer's Luck Re: [MYSTARA] - Sale - Reruns Various Mystaran Stuff Re: [MYSTARA] - Sale - Reruns Various Mystaran Stuff Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals, Deities, and Begginer's Luck [MYSTARA] - Darokinian Kings Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: PC1 and Alfheim Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: PC1 and Alfheim Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian GAZ [MYSTARA] - AD&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian GAZ Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian GAZ [MYSTARA] - Discussing WotI Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: PC1 and Alfheim Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: PC1 and Alfheim Re: [MYSTARA] - PC1 and Alfheim ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 12:27:56 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - PC1 and Alfheim >In a message dated 98-04-03 17:40:34 EST, JamugaKhan@aol.com writes: >>Sorry to correct you, but Canolbarth is a very small ffforest and Alfheim was in the middle of it until the destruction in the middle of the Great War. >The words "small" and "large" have little meaning without a context. For those of you who do not have a map of Mystara handy, the forest of Canolbarth (whose extent is identical with that of Alfhiem and later Aengmor) is about 288 miles (12 hexes x 24 miles/hex) from east to west and about 168 miles (7 hexes x 24 miles/hex) from north to south. Since it is roughly triangular in shape, its total area is about 48000 square miles. Whether that is small or large depends on what you are comparing it to. You forgot a huge section of the Forest South of Aengmor that stretched into Hinmeet to the South, and Armstead to the SE, that part of the True Canolbarth Forest, not the Magically created one. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:07:55 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - PC1 and Alfheim << Hmm.....I'll meddle with this a bit and see if I can put together an Ethie expansion that would work and also benefit the Ethie. Of course Glantri will have be in the mix. Probably will include Rockhome as an ally. >> Hm myself! Here are four (copper) tangs on this theme: 1.: Imagine the Ethengars getting knowledge about building flying ships! They have enough high-level spellcasters to do the work. As crew I would suggest women as most horse-warriors are probably men. IMC I'm working on that point (short before WotI). (BTW, please no flames from female list members. I'm talking about probabilities and IMC I have introduced another high-level woman. Unfortunately my male players and their characters hold her and Jamal for cowards as they fled a Heldannic warbird and the PCs decide to stand and fight. The problem is that they even won.) 2.: Imagine a century old plan, that one Great Khan from the past sent some Ethengars capable to cast magic to Glantri as spies, exactly as sleepers. These sleepers stood under a heavy inheritable Geas that prevented them from remembering their true goals. They and their successsors now live as "traitors" in Glantri and work and fight for their new home but when the big Ethengarian stroke will come, a single password will be enough to convert them. I think you know whom I meant: Prince Jherek Virayana and Prince Urmahid Krinagar and their families. These two ideas make the foundation of the Il-Khanate Glantri very possible. Jamuga Khan "Ride, brave horse-warriors! We will smash these Glantrian cowards!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:07:57 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: PC1 and Alfheim << I disagree. How big is Spain? Yet they owned half the world at one point. It's a very small area, but it seems to have a good equivalence in Europe, which was also a very small area filled with small countries. Communication is difficult in general in Mystara, unless you have lots of mages to do courier duty. Most don't....>> Or look at England at the height of its colonial empire. England owned Canada, Australia, India, the "best" parts of Africa(sure France had more, but what good is a lot of desert?), pieces of China and South America, Scotland, Ireland, Wales, New Zealand, and lots of nice little things throughout the world. And England is just a tiny little piece of a tiny little island off the coast of a relatively small continent. >> But don't forget that England and Spain conquered less developed countries which were not prepared to withstand these kind of warfare and diseases. The same thing was true for the Mongols and Europe, but this is not true for Ethengar and Brun, at least not as it was shown in the Gazetteers. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:07:56 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian GAZ << Now a question for the List- Once this puppy is finished, I do wish to present it to the List as a humble offering. Now I know the sending of attachments is not a favored activity. Would this be a problem. The file would be in any format MS Word will allow. If it is a problem then I would have to look at sending the file to all that are interested, based on requests. Alex >> Send it to me please. Jamuga Khan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:07:54 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian GAZ << Fine -- show me a counterexample of a Glantrian with a single name. I think your example refers to Harald Haskinz, aka Harald of Haskinz. However that "Haskinz" moniker may have originated, it is obvious that the Glantrians came to regard it as a surname. There is no reason that a surname cannot be "of Haskinz" -- we certainly have plenty of European sounding surnames both in Glantri and in the real world that start with "du" or "von", which basically mean "of" in the original languages. >> Right! There are noble houses as "von Thurn und Taxis" in RW or "von Drachenfels" on Mystara. "Of Haskinz" is a good noble surname. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 14:09:07 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Whoa!!! (and Alphatia) >Didn't intend "obsolete" as a damning of pre Wrath gamers - quite the contrary (i've just completed a Savage Coast campaign set in 1000AC, and am >now starting on a "brink of war" game in Karameikos around 1003AC. I like >Alphatia too much to play after Wrath! >Just reminding you that the Gazeteers are set before Wrath, as newbies >looking at the Mystara stuff on the Web are most likely to find all the excellent new stuff, set post Wrath. >PS speaking of Alphatia, sadly living in the UK old stuff like Dawn of >the Emperors is a little hard to come by. But if anyone can tell me a source of old D+D stuff (perhaps mail order?) that I can get a hold of, I >would be most grateful. >Cheerz! Robert, Try www.Hitpointe.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:14:14 EDT From: Magistar2 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals, Deities, and Begginer's Luck In a message dated 98-04-05 20:23:56 EDT, you write: << 3. My computer is old, could someone please send me the RTF versions ffrom the TSR website? I don't quite get the logic behind that one. I meen that I have Aol, and my brother said that it will save all the RTF files as TXT files, meening I get only gibberish. If it was downloaded from a computer capable as an RTF file it could be sent to me I could translate the file. >5. Was Darkomir ever a monarchy? >> The republic place, the land of the golden rule, the thing that surrounds the brown forest thingy (I am VERY new.) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:24:54 EDT From: Magistar2 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sale - Reruns Various Mystaran Stuff In a message dated 98-04-06 13:19:04 EDT, you write: << I would LOVE it if you would pick up the two AD&D settings for me... okay, also first off I guess I missed the original message so I am a little confused, also, if you were buying them and possibly re-reselling them to people I would enjoy receiving after purchase the AD&D supplement red-steel. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 19:17:20 EDT From: Bimha2 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sale - Reruns Various Mystaran Stuff Y DONT U JUST DOWNLOAD THE SAVAGE COAST (RED STEEL) SETTING FROM THE TSR WEBSITE *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 02:09:08 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals, Deities, and Begginer's Luck On Mon, 6 Apr 1998, Magistar2 wrote: >In a message dated 98-04-05 20:23:56 EDT, you write: ><< 3. My computer is old, could someone please send me the RTF versions fffrom the TSR website? >I don't quite get the logic behind that one. >I meen that I have Aol, and my brother said that it will save all the RTF files as TXT files, meening I get only gibberish. If it was downloaded from a computer capable as an RTF file it could be sent to me I could translate the file. You could try downloading the txt-versions of the files, also available at the same site. >>5. Was Darkomir ever a monarchy? >> >The republic place, the land of the golden rule, the thing that surrounds the brown forest thingy (I am VERY new.) You probably mean Darokin. (Darkomir is a cool name too though, maybe we could use it somewhere?) And the answer is Yes. Darokin was a monarchy. Most famous are the Attleson kings. I cant give you any more details because Im on a easter vacation and I didnt bring any Mystara-stuff. However, Im sure that someone else will help you out. Sincerely Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 20:12:15 EDT From: Magistar2 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sale - Reruns Various Mystaran Stuff In a message dated 98-04-06 19:36:05 EDT, you write: << Y DONT U JUST DOWNLOAD THE SAVAGE COAST (RED STEEL) SETTING FROM THE TSR WEBSITE >> Shush, whisper.... I have tried several times to download the campaign setting, however it needs a lettering name Platinno and New York, which I don't have, my computer almost crashed. That's why I don't just download. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 18:20:29 -0600 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sale - Reruns Various Mystaran Stuff Bimha2 meandered fecklessly... >Y DONT U JUST DOWNLOAD THE SAVAGE COAST (RED STEEL) SETTING FROM THE TSR WEBSITE First off, settle down. Yelling (i.e. all caps) in not needed here. Second, there is something to be said for having a real book and real maps, not just some poorly formatted sheets of paper in a binder. Don't get me wrong, it is damn cool of TSR to put that stuff up for free, but for only 7 bucks, I'll pay the price. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com ICQ #4253672 "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 20:31:14 EDT From: Magistar2 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals, Deities, and Begginer's Luck In a message dated 98-04-06 20:29:30 EDT, you write: << However, Im sure that someone else will help you out. >> Thanks anyway. So could someone please send me the information on the overhwelmingly funky kings of Darokin (Not Darkomir!) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 01:38:15 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Darokinian Kings Here is some stuff from the Darokin gazetteer on its history... The dominant Eastwind clan of humans(dominant thanks mainly to elven help from Alfheim) slowly drives back orcish forces during 400BC onwards, until in 21 AC Ansel Darokin successfully organises the Eastwind clan and its allied human tribes and becomes the first of the Eastwind Kings. The Eastwind Kings continue until 87AC when Ansel's great grandson Aden I is killed in an orcish raid, leaving no heirs. Three candidates stepped forward to claim the crown, but in the resultant power struggle the orcs retook most of Darokin's land - until the elves once again intervened, backing a compromise candidate for the leadership of Darokin, a warrior named Corwyn Attleson. Attleson proved an excellent leader, beating back the orcs until he died of natural causes in 122AC, leaving the reigns of power to his equally capable son, Corwyn II, founding the Attleson Dynasty. The Attleson Dynasty reigned for another 400 years, driving the orcs completely out of Darokin. This was the "Golden Age" of Darokin - a time when roads were built, trade was established, and the Darokinian border was a great deal larger than it is now (meaning 1000AC). During the Golden Age dependence on the elves diminished, deteriorating in the later 5th century (thanks partly due to the corruption of some of the Attleson kings, notably Mithras IV (467-480) and Mithras V(480-503). The elves provided a scapegoat for all the humans problems, and eventually there was war. The Elfwar was very onesided (the humans were utterly annihilated) but the elves thought the whole affair was some sort of big joke (which is why there are no hard feelings in Alfheim) and didnt actually attack back. Mithras V was killed in battle, and his successor Corwyn XIII defused the war. (the skirmish cost the lives of 2000 humans and 50 elves). However, for a long time the Darokinians were very wary of the elves. The orcs were continually having a go as well, sacking the city of Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:34:33 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #210 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com Corunglain in 523 AC. As time went on the towns and villages dotted over Darokin became more and more independent, until by around 650 AC the title of King of Darokin was largely ceremonial. The last Darokin King, Santhral II, died of natural causes without an heir in the year 723 AC. So - there with have a summary of the Gazetteer info on the Darokinian Kings!!! Hope its useful - if you need any more all you have to do is ask and i'll summarise a whole lot more for you (hell, i enjoy writing stuff about my favourite campaign world). Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 22:35:32 -0400 From: Amaldis@concentric.net Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: PC1 and Alfheim <> Didn't the Mongols conquer China(Marco Polo met Kublai Khan, who was a Mongolian ruler of China)? At the time, China was the most advanced civilization on the face of the earth. So, yes, I think the Ethengars could invade and conquer one of their neighbors if they put their mind to it. A sweep into Vestland and then down into Soderfjord would probably be the easiest route(sure, a quick jab into Darokin is easy, but lasting conquest of Darokin would be difficult in the face of all the troops Darokin has, once they manuever them into place). The Ethengar already have a presence in Rhoona, so a bunch of political assasinations could come right before the invasion. And, of course, King Thar and P'sagh would probably be happy to help the Ethengar for a price(sure, they will turn on the Ethengar eventually, but the Ethengar will try to make sure they betray the humanoids first). Oh, and concerning someone's mention that the Ethengar are too few in number; the real world Mongols were more numerous, but the real world opponents of the Mongols were FAR more numerous than Ethengar's opponent's. - -Amaldis *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 00:53:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: PC1 and Alfheim Amaldis@concentric.net pontificated: >Didn't the Mongols conquer China(Marco Polo met Kublai Khan, who was a Mongolian ruler of China)? At the time, China was the most advanced civilization on the face of the earth. I think he meant the advances in the art of war. Mongols revolutionize that with their light, mobile, and skilled horse soldiers. And no other nations at the time have any way to counter that. So, yes, I think the Ethengars >could invade and conquer one of their neighbors if they put their mind to it. A sweep into Vestland and then down into Soderfjord would probably be the easiest route(sure, a quick jab into Darokin is easy, but lasting conquest of Darokin would be difficult in the face of all the troops Darokin has, once they manuever them into place). i actually I would think Darokin is probably the easiest for Ethengars to conquar, as their cavalry would not be nearly as effective in other nations mountainous terrain. - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 10:43:20 +0200 From: Enrico Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian GAZ At 17.07 06/04/98 EDT, you wrote: ><< Now a question for the List- Once this puppy is finished, I do wish to ppresent it to the List as a humble offering. Now I know the sending of attachments is not a favored activity. Would this be a problem. The file would >be in any format MS Word will allow. If it is a problem then I would have to >look at sending the file to all that are interested, based on requests. >Alex >> Send it to me please. Enrico *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:00:34 +0200 From: "Johan van Niekerk" Subject: [MYSTARA] - AD&D This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01BD621C.C540DA50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Anyone knows wheteher the AD&D Mystara version is still being published = ? I have Karamaikos and Glantri, but haven't seen anything since. I = really can't wait for some of the good oldies like Orcs of Thar, etc. - ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01BD621C.C540DA50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Anyone knows wheteher the AD&D = Mystara=20 version is still being published ? I have Karamaikos and Glantri, but = haven't=20 seen anything since. I really can't wait for some of the good oldies = like Orcs=20 of Thar, etc.
- ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01BD621C.C540DA50-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:13:35 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian GAZ >At 17.07 06/04/98 EDT, you wrote: >><< Now a question for the List- Once this puppy is finished, I do wish to pppresent it to the List as a humble offering. Now I know the sending of attachments is not a favored activity. Would this be a problem. The file would >>be in any format MS Word will allow. If it is a problem then I would hhave to >>look at sending the file to all that are interested, based on requests. >>Alex >> >I would like a copy too Alex. >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 13:39:03 +0200 From: Lille My Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian GAZ At 12:13 07-04-98 +0100, you wrote: >><< Now a question for the List- Once this puppy is finished, I do wish to pppresent it to the List as a humble offering. Now I know the sending of attachments is not a favored activity. Would this be a problem. The file would >>be in any format MS Word will allow. If it is a problem then I would hhave to >>look at sending the file to all that are interested, based on requests. >>Alex >> I am also interested, so please send a copy, once you're ready. Lille My *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 14:05:45 +0000 From: wizzard@mail.intcom.de Subject: [MYSTARA] - Discussing WotI >From: Alex295 >--> Comments on Jenni´s posting >In a message dated 98-04-06 10:07:52 EDT, you write: Good point. The adventures that make up the Immortals Fury Campaign can be played without the Great War. If you think about it, there are periods in which the War does not really factor. And even in the TimeLine, hooks are suggested if the PCs are in the area. That in fact does make it a great adventure-plot for the PC can´t imagine the longterm effects they cause with their actions. I myself prefer this kind of play. Recently my group had to use informations they got 1993 while playing a completely dfferent adventure. I think this fills the story with life. Adventuring is not like every information needed will be found right here in the place you can use it. Life isn´t like that and so adventures shouldn´t be like that. Please don´t flame me, it´s my opinion, no dictate to the list!! regarding: >IMO such a large war should not be the focus of the PCs anyway. If involved, they should be on the fringes doing tasks that normal troops are ill prepared to perform. Besides, name level PCs have more glamorous things to do than join the ranks and chance a volly of arrows. Plus, soldier's pay is minor compared to doing "special jobs" more akin to a PC's experience. There you have it. They needn´t be in the ranks but they should be behind the ranks and guide the army with their wits and leadership. It is one of the easiest ways to introduce tabletops. And think of the much higher interest if the PC domain faces a threat of an envying neighbour-domain that tries to use the war for their own best ends. Waiting for further statements. Wizzard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 08:29:51 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: PC1 and Alfheim >actually I would think Darokin is probably the easiest for Ethengars to conquar, as their cavalry would not be nearly as effective in other nations mountainous terrain. >-- >John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | But Darokin's main strength has always been its allies. Glantri would not sit still for an Ethengarian takeover of the Dwarfgates. Then again, if Ethengar took the Dwarfgates and settled them, in effect putting down the humanoids and making the area safer, then Alfhiem and Rockhome might put pressure on Darokin to leave the Eths alone. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 09:26:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: PC1 and Alfheim In my Mystara campaign there has been a movement to settle the Dwarfgate area, which is a combination of an exodus of adventurer/pioneer types from Karameikos and Hattias (at the same time as the colonization of Norwold from CM1) and an influx of settlers from Ethengar. As such it is a very strange mixed culture ... At one point I designed elaborate state ceremonies involving Ethengar shamanic stuff with yaks and horses combined with the more "civilized" political ritual of the southern countries. The country was broken into two Duchies, Ventara (which included some of the land formerly held by the southern-central Ethengar tribe (can't remember the name) and Amardia (which is in the mountains themselves, as well as covering some of the southern foothills along the Rockhome border north of Fort Hobart) ... the original Duke of Amardia was one Nilnari Exendior, but he was later killed by the Huleans during my running of X10, and his lands were taken over by Duke John of Celtar (a minor NPC from the County of Garette in the back of the companion rulebook, promoted to higher rank), a famous knight and war hero. The Duchy of Ventara I think (IIRC) was "shared" between the Great Khan and the Duke of Amardia, and had many Traladaran, Hattian, Dunael, and Darokinian settlers. anyway just something I thought I'd share ... easily something that could be adapted to standard campaigns by anyone who's interested. m@2 "You're not really in love with yourself - you're just in love with the idea of being in love with yourself" - said to me by one of the two little fellas who hang out on either of my shoulders ... I can't remember which ... On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, Daly wrote: >>actually I would think Darokin is probably the easiest for Ethengars to conquar, as their cavalry would not be nearly as effective in other nations mountainous terrain. >>-- >>John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | >But Darokin's main strength has always been its allies. Glantri would not sit still for an Ethengarian takeover of the Dwarfgates. Then again, if Ethengar took the Dwarfgates and settled them, in effect putting down the humanoids and making the area safer, then Alfhiem and Rockhome might put pressure on Darokin to leave the Eths alone. >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:33:03 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - PC1 and Alfheim In a message dated 98-04-06 17:27:45 EDT, you write: <> Interesting. I always wondered about a clerical designed and constructed skyship. Women as crews would work as the Ethie do not want to give up their beloved mounts.Though I'll admit to not being sure if a female Ethie can be a soldier. IIRC women are "only good for raising kids" as far as the Ethie care. Though I might be confusing that with Glantri's Prince Jherek. Still, it could be interesting. Perhaps, justifying the female warrior/skyship crews via one of the Ethie's female Immortal's (Terra). <<2.: Imagine a century old plan, that one Great Khan from the past sent some Ethengars capable to cast magic to Glantri as spies, exactly as sleepers. These sleepers stood under a heavy inheritable Geas that prevented them from remembering their true goals. They and their successsors now live as "traitors" in Glantri and work and fight for their new home but when the big Ethengarian stroke will come, a single password will be enough to convert them. I think you know whom I meant: Prince Jherek Virayana and Prince Urmahid Krinagar and their families.>> Now I like this idea. The idea of the "dirty Ethie" sticking it to the uppity Glantrians appeals to me. Plus I always wondered why the Ethie did not do something to kill or capture the "traitor" Jherek. <> IMO a knock out, drag out war of closure has been long overdue between the Ethie and Glantrians. Though many of you may think of me as a war monger, I would like to see a war of not only clashing armies but also tact. IMO what has prevented an Ethie victory in the past is the terrain of Glantri. Where the steppes is a vast, open place in which the tactics and diciplined formations of the Ethie win. The rolling hills, uneven terrain, and woods of Glantri sort of negate these Ethie tactics. Thus the playing field is equalled. Now the Ethie cannot attack Glantri proper without heavy losses and possible defeat. The Glantrians cannot invade the steppes without being outmanuevered and turned to pin cushions. So you have a stalemate scenario. Alex Jamuga Khan "Ride, brave horse-warriors! We will smash these Glantrian cowards!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #210 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, April 8 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 211 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sale - Reruns Various Mystaran Stuff Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals, Deities, and Begginer's Luck [MYSTARA] - Why not PDF/JPG for scanned items? Re: [MYSTARA] - Why not PDF/JPG for scanned items? Re: [MYSTARA] - Why not PDF/JPG for scanned items? [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: PC1 and Alfheim Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: PC1 and Alfheim Re: [MYSTARA] - Why not PDF/JPG for scanned items? Re: [MYSTARA] - Sale - Reruns Various Mystaran Stuff ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:44:14 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sale - Reruns Various Mystaran Stuff In a message dated 98-04-06 20:35:00 EDT, Leroy writes: << Second, there is something to be said for having a real book and real maps, not just some poorly formatted sheets of paper in a binder. Don't get me wrong, it is damn cool of TSR to put that stuff up for free, but for only 7 bucks, I'll pay the price. >> Finally someone who veiws that stuff the same way I do. That you can get some Mystara material online as downloads, I prefer having them in their original book form. I hate scrolling through screens to find something. I hate printing all of that info out and forming piles of paper. Stapled together they are a pain to flip through. Plus most downloads do not have the maps. Those that do have them as seperate files. I kinda miss the two being together. Now if there is no ther option, I have to take downloadable OOP material. But if opportunity knocks and OOP material is available I'll pay the added cost. I just prefer the original book forms. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 00:13:20 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals, Deities, and Begginer's Luck At 17.14 06/04/98 EDT, Magistar2 wrote: >>5. Was Darkomir ever a monarchy? >> >The republic place, the land of the golden rule, the thing that surrounds the brown forest thingy (I am VERY new.) You mean Darokin! Yes, it once was a monarchy... but it was a long time ago. BTW: Aengmor is not a "brown forest thingy" ;-) - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 14:53:58 GMT From: cpb@gatewest.net (Chris Paul Billows) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Why not PDF/JPG for scanned items? I am wanting to know why TSR wants all scanned items to be RTF combined with JPGs for graphics, when there is an internet/computer standard for viewing documents online such as Adobe's PDF? Using PDF would give the users the true copy of the original item, there is no need for spell checking or fitting in graphics somewhere. The reader is absolutely free and everyone who publishes games on CD use it to package the documents in electronic format. Saying no to this format makes no sense to me since it takes so much work to spellcheck, format the text and then try to find where the graphics are supposed to go. Does anyone have any ideas why TSR ignores this standard? __________________________________ | |\ | Chris Billows | | | Check out my Gaming Memoirs | | | www.gatewest.net/~cpb/gaming/ | | |_________________________________| | \_________________________________\| *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 23:40:11 -0400 From: Paul MacDonald Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why not PDF/JPG for scanned items? Chris Paul Billows wrote: >I am wanting to know why TSR wants all scanned items to be RTF combined with JPGs for graphics, when there is an internet/computer standard for viewing documents online such as Adobe's PDF? Adobes Acrobat reader eats up 5 Meg (or more wih plugins) of disk space. .PDF documents take up too much disk space. Acrobat documents are unreadable on the screens of some computers. Unless you buy the full package, you can't edit the docs. >Using PDF would give the users the true copy of the original item, there is no need for spell checking or fitting in graphics somewhere. The reader is absolutely free and everyone who publishes games on CD use it to package the documents in electronic format. Alot of the modules could use some proof reading. If your buddy jumped off a bridge... >Saying no to this format makes no sense to me since it takes so much work to spellcheck, format the text and then try to find where the graphics are supposed to go. Does anyone have any ideas why TSR ignores this standard? They figure if you're going to put something on the web you might as well do it in as flexible a format as possible? Paul MacDonald *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 21:51:23 -0600 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why not PDF/JPG for scanned items? Chris Paul Billows meandered fecklessly... >I am wanting to know why TSR wants all scanned items to be RTF combined with >JPGs for graphics, when there is an internet/computer standard for viewing >documents online such as Adobe's PDF? >Using PDF would give the users the true copy of the original item, there is no >need for spell checking or fitting in graphics somewhere. The reader is absolutely free and everyone who publishes games on CD use it to package the >documents in electronic format. >Saying no to this format makes no sense to me since it takes so much work to >spellcheck, format the text and then try to find where the graphics are supposed >to go. Does anyone have any ideas why TSR ignores this standard? There is much more to PDF than just that, though. Getting something to look good in PDF is nearly as hard as getting something to look good for the printed page. For things like the Savage Coast, where it never made it farther than the net, getting it into PDF in a suitable layout would take time and skilled labor, which TSR was unwilling to do for a product they are not making money on (can ya' blame them?) As for scanned items, these things are being done by volunteers, who scan it in using OCR ( a notoriously inaccurate technology), then upload it for proofing. To make it look good would require time and effort, either on TSR's part (again, it's free), or from the volunteers, and how many people out there have copies of XPress or PageWrecke, or something similar? People could format it with something like Word, but since this would defeat the purpose, why bother. In the end, it boils down to time and effort. Making something look good for PDF takes both, as well as decent, but hardly common, software. I suppose you could scan in each page and make it a full graphic, but that sounds like the genesis of a huge file, likely with dubious quality as well. About a week ago I mailed the TSR web guy and offered to format some stuff and put it into PDF format, but have yet to hear a response. I also offered to scan in the maps to go along with the free Shadow Elf Gazetteer. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com ICQ #4253672 "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 01:15:57 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World In a message dated 98-04-07 12:52:56 EDT, Alex295@aol.com writes: >IMO what has prevented an Ethie victory in the past is the terrain of Glantri. >Where the steppes is a vast, open place in which the tactics and diciplined >formations of the Ethie win. The rolling hills, uneven terrain, and woods of >Glantri sort of negate these Ethie tactics. Thus the playing field is equalled. Now the Ethie cannot attack Glantri proper without heavy losses and possible defeat. The Glantrians cannot invade the steppes without being ooutmanuevered and turned to pin cushions. So you have a stalemate scenario. Of course there are a few areas in foreign lands where the terrain does favor the Ethies. Examples: the Principalities of Boldavia and Bramyra in Glantri, and many parts of the Heldannic Territories. All Ethengar has to do is wait for one or both of those nations to be distracted by internal turmoil (not a long wait in the post-Wrath world) and then invade those territories. If they can get some good diplomatic advice, they will be able to hold onto these gains Mongol style. Once they have consolidated these gains, the rest of the Known World is ripe for the plucking -- they will be in fear of the Great Khan and will stumble over each other as they race to reach some sort of accommodation with him. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 09:46:31 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World In a message dated 98-04-08 01:29:44 EDT, Kaviyd writes: << Of course there are a few areas in foreign lands where the terrain does favor the Ethies. Examples: the Principalities of Boldavia and Bramyra in Glantri, and many parts of the Heldannic Territories. All Ethengar has to do is wait for one or both of those nations to be distracted by internal turmoil (not a long wait in the post-Wrath world) and then invade those territories. If they can get some good diplomatic advice, they will be able to hold onto these gains Mongol style. Once they have consolidated these gains, the rest of the Known World is ripe for the plucking -- they will be in fear of the Great Khan and will stumble over each other as they race to reach some sort of accommodation with him.>> I was thinking of Darokin as an ideal land for not only Ethie deployment but also occupation. The pastures of Darokin would work well with the nomadic herders of the steppes.However, to get to the Darokin plains, the Ethie must deal with Glantri. Afterall, Glantri is the hated enemy. It would be stupid for the Ethie to not deal with Glantri and remove them as an obstacle before moving on to greener pastures. I did this little thingy up yesterday using War Machine and the stats for the Ethengar Hordes and Grand Army of Glantri as given in PWA 2. I ran two scenarios 1) The Ethie invading Glantri. 2) The Glantrians invading the steppes. In both scenarios I only went one round. In doing so I used these two forces- Glantri 16 Banners of 866 troops totalling 13,856 troops BR- 159 Troop Class- Excellant Note- I felt the BR was too high. I also thought the humanoid Banners should have been presented seperate and of a lower BR and troop class. Ethengar Khanates 8 Hordes of 1052 troops totalling 8416 troops BR- 120 Troop Class- Good Note- I personally disagree with the stated troop class. I also ommitted the inclusion of the Golden Khan's elite horde, The Keshak. Scenario 1 Ethie invade Glantri. After going through the steps I came up with these modified BRs for the two armies, trying to rationalize the emotions and armies themselves wherever applicable. It should be noted that IMO the Ethie got the short end of the stick in this process.- Ethie- 100 Glantri- 194 I did the %d roll and added accordingly. Ethie- 100+65= 165 Glantri- 194+ 22= 216 a difference of 51 in the favor of the Glantrians. The combat results (according to chart) had the casualties at- Ethengar- 50% numbering 4208 dead and wounded leaving 4208 troops retreating and seriously fatigued back some three units. Glantri- 20% numbering 2771 dead and wounded leaving 11085 moderately fatigued troops winning the field plus one unit. Scenario 2 Glantri invades Ethengar Steppes Modified BRs come as- Glantri- 149 Ethie- 195 Used the same %d as in scenario one- Glantri- 171+22= 171 Ethie- 195+65+ 260 giving a difference of 89 in favor of the Ethie. Combat results are as follows- Glantri losses 50% of its force, leaving 6928 seriously fatigued troops retreating back 2 units. Ethie losses 10% of his troops leaving 7575 not fatigued troops to hold the field plus 3 units. Now these two scenarios were run pretty crudely. They were basically, the two armies facing each other. I did not take into account tactics. I did not include allies. The two scenarios are Ethengar and Glantri going at it. If I had the time, I would have had an Ethie multi prong assault using Boldavia as the main thrust and lesser assaults enacted elswhere to draw off a banner or two. I would of also liked to include Rockhome and possibly the Heldannic Knights into the mix. As mentioned, I only ran the scenarios one round. The initial first round results were so one sided, I saw little need to continue. I had originally intended to have the Karash held as a reserve, being commited in the second round. Anyway, I'll continue meddling with this and see what I can come up with. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 12:01:36 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: PC1 and Alfheim In a message dated 98-04-06 15:34:15 EDT, you write: Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 13:18:00 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #211 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com << Alex, I agree with your conclusions about Ethengar but I think there's one place your reasoning could be clearer ... the reason Ethengar wouldn't be able to assimilate the surrounding nations isn't cultural difference (after all, the Spanish are pretty damn different from various Native American cultures, and the Greeks were pretty different from the various Semitic and Hamitic middle eastern groups they conquered under Alexander), it's a matter of styles of social organization. >> I took this into consideration with the "culture clash" of the original post. Such broad strokes are often mandatory when taking various sources and drawing relevant characteristics from them. In other words, I tried to keep the response brief. << The RW models for the Ethengar, the Mongols, also conquered a huge area of the world, but were assimilated into the cultures they conquered rather than vice versa.>> Bingo!! My point exactly. For the moment, let us assume the Ethie conquered Glantri, Darokin, and Karameikos. Each body of Ethie occupying these three vassel states would, over time, act more like the occupied nation's society. They'd adopt the social structure of the states. And there is the factor of combining the gene pool. In a few generations, you'd have four Ethie subtypes, both socially and physically. Ethie of Karameikos, Ethie of Darokin, Ethie of Glantri, and the original Ethie of the steppes. And the Ethie of the steppes would bear some change also from the social and economic aspects sent back as tribute, innovations, and so on. Hmm...interesting. Four Ethie types under one banner. Wonder how long that coalition would remain in unity. <> Yes, an age old practice of administering occuppied territories. Plus, having a native "ruler" helps with the tensions of Occupied and Occupyer. <> More likely, I'd say the barbarians took what appealled to them as benefical. A sort of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" approach. <> More like stagnant than fluid. The Ethie are one of the old races. There staying together probably has as much to do with their stagnant nature and traditionalism. Their government structure does much to insure this trend to continue. Though Moglai Khan is a bit more open and progressive than his fore bears. Now if the Ethie were to go off and do the world conqueror thing, you would probably see the end of traditional Ethie culture as the Ethie are assimilated by the conquered nations. Or more likely, their armies and manpower base would be decimated in a war of attrition. <> No problem. We all ramble every now and then. Some of us just more often than others. I myself are among the ranks of these. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 12:27:39 EST From: Neal Daskal Subject: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World I think you would continue to see similar results. War Machine is set up so that a force defending its homeland has a great advantage. Factor in Glantri's rather high base BR and Troop Class (based on oes their magic capabilities) and it is unlikely that Ethie could conquer Glantri. When Jim Bambra wrote the Ethie Gazetteer, he suggested some War Machines wait and BattleSystem mods to make the Ethie's more formidable. IMHO the (not a mods were more significant for BattleSystem and still depended greatly If on fighting in open terrain (i.e. no forest (Alfheim) or mountains (Rockhome or the borders of Glantri). Darokin and the Freeholds ese would be the ideal targets of Ethie conquest based on terrain and would of best be played under BattleSystem rules. Another consideration is e Great magic. IIRC, Ethie units and forces never took Hakomans, Clerics, or of Shamans into account. This put them at a mechanical disadvantage relative to Glantri and would also do so if Freeholder units or forces were designed with consideration for the clerical abilities of the t but Knights. One way to offset this, at least in BattleSystem, would be ic to add Ethie casters as Heroes. One more consideration to prevent must a stalemate (unless that's what you want) would be to play the Claymore upid Mutiny in Glantri, were the frustrated Fighter types and hidden Clerics efore rose up against the Magic-Users. Always remember that the Ethie's military advantages stem from their discipline, horsemanship, and archery, factors which are easier to expose in the game if BattleSystem is used instead of War Machine. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 12:29:43 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: PC1 and Alfheim In a message dated 98-04-06 22:53:25 EDT, you write: <> Yep, and the conquering Mongols soon became as Chinese as the folks they conquered. <> One maybe. But at great cost. Ethie cavalry are a trained from a life of riding. They cannot be replaced overnight. <
> I would opt for a final confrontation with Glantri to be the frst stepping stone to world conquest. The Glantrians are an age old hated enemy and could not be left alone without being struch at. Plus, the initial thrust would have the Ethie at full strength. And such strength would be needed. The terrain of Glantri is not favorable to the Ethie war machine. I would suggest an alliance with the Dwarves of Rockhome with this one. The dwarves hate the Glantrians about as much as the Ethie do. Bring them in for the needed foot infantry. Then, I'd have the Ethie strike at either Darokin or the Heldannic Knights. The Knights would have to be dealt with probably first. IMO Darokin could be manipulated into a treaty. And we all know that nonaggression treaties are only worth the paper they are wrote on. When the Knights are dealt with the Ethie could focus on Darokin. The terrain of Darokin is more akin to that of the steppes. A war depleted Ethie army would perform well there. Possibly bring Ylaruam in offering them Selenica and its surrounding territory. Possibly bring the Shadow Elves in, offering them the strips of land north and south of what is left of Canolbarth. <> I am actually uncertain as to how I would place the noids in the equation. Probably use them to assault Glantri, offering them promises of a noid self ruled homeland. They could be dealt with later on. <> That would have been me. The Ethie are also surrounded by more organized nations than the RW Mongols. Most are technically superior regarding their armies. These are not Mongol period armies they would be going against. As for Ethie numbers, the situation is once again different. RW Mongols used their vassel peoples to continue the fight. IMO the people of neighboring nations would not be as compliant with this. Most have been soveriegn nations for extended periods. This differs from the tribes that the Mongols conquered. The Mongols defeated these tribes and added them to their army. The exception being China itself who had to be conquered peicemeal and with the combined numbers of the Mongol holdings. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 11:50:45 -0500 From: "Lord BKis1" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why not PDF/JPG for scanned items? First let me give some background: I'm a executive in a document management & data content provider. To sum things up we teach people how to better handle the storage and retrieval of documents. We also facilitate the capture and conversion of all paper, film, and etc. to electronic mediums. So your going to get a educated opinion on this subject. The original posters(Chris) message was absolutely correct. PDF would be the best solution for TSR OOP items. It would require much less time and effort to prepare while still preserving the original document continuity. PDFs look EXACTLY like the original(and have for at least a year). As for size, if you translate characters into fonts your files sizes will be close to where they are now. Next thing, OCR. Does 98% qualify for inaccurate? Now granted that's not the type of software you buy at the store. That's a top of the line OCR engine. But if PDF was the standard OCR wouldn't even be a issue. Now there's one problem with scans to PDF documents. It requires anyone authoring with it to buy Acrobat Exchange, which goes for something like $299. Since it's volunteer work - I can see that being a problem. One possibility is for TSR to accept scanned images and running them out to PDF(it really doesn't require much effort). Quite honestly, I could careless how they do it - I get what I need out of it. But I just though I would put in my 2 cents. >There is much more to PDF than just that, though. Getting something to look good in PDF is nearly as hard as getting something to look good for the printed page. >For things like the Savage Coast, where it never made it farther than the net, getting it into PDF in a suitable layout would take time and skilled labor, which TSR was unwilling to do for a product they are not making money on (can ya' blame them?) AAs for scanned items, these things are being done by volunteers, who scan it in using OCR ( a notoriously inaccurate technology), then upload it for proofing. To make it look good would require time and effort, either on TSR's part (again, it's free), or from the volunteers, and how many people out there have copies of XPress or PageWrecke, or something similar? PPeople could format it with something like Word, but since this would defeat the purpose, why bother. >In the end, it boils down to time and effort. Making something look good for PDF takes both, as well as decent, but hardly common, software. >I suppose you could scan in each page and make it a full graphic, but that sounds like the genesis of a huge file, likely with dubious quality as well. >About a week ago I mailed the TSR web guy and offered to format some stuff and put it into PDF format, but have yet to hear a response. I also offered to scan in the maps to go along with the free Shadow Elf Gazetteer. >Leroy Van Camp III >malacoda@lesbois.com >owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com >ICQ #4253672 >"You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MMST3K >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 12:19:52 -0500 (CDT) From: Stephen Dolan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sale - Reruns Various Mystaran Stuff >Y DONT U JUST DOWNLOAD THE SAVAGE COAST (RED STEEL) SETTING FROM THE TSR WEBSITE Well I just want to say that some times it is nice to have the piece of paper in your hand instead of bugging your eyes out reading off the screen or wasteing 3 ink cartrages printing it out. If i really want a product that i think i'm gonna use i'm gonna buy it. Steve *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #211 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Thursday, April 9 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 212 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar taking over the world (was Re: PC1 and Re: [MYSTARA] - PC1 and Alfheim Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: PC1 and Alfheim Re[4]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World Re: [MYSTARA] - PC1 and Alfheim [MYSTARA] - Re: Why not PDF/JPG for scanned items? Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar taking over the world (was Re: PC1 and Re: [MYSTARA] - PC1 and Alfheim Re: [MYSTARA] - PC1 and Alfheim Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian GAZ [MYSTARA] - Ethengar invade Darokin? I don't think so. Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: PC1 and Alfheim Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar taking over the world (was Re: PC1 and Re: [MYSTARA] - Why not PDF/JPG for scanned items? [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance (was PC1 and Alfheim) [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Elemental Opposition and Dominance ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 10:23:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World all this discussion of war machine stats and suchlike is interesting, but in the end it just tells me what I already knew ... either side could kick the other one's ass on their home turf. This makes sense because if either DID have the ability to smash the enemy and conquer their land, they would have done so. The fact that there is a stalemate in hypothetical military scenarios fits well with the fact that there is a political stalemate in the current setting. It would seem that a decisive resolution to the Glantri-Ethengar "cold war" in either direction would require powerful allies ... not likely to happen unless something very big happened, like the Huleans conquering Darokin, which would upset the general balance of power. As it stands, all the math you guys have gone through sounds just about right ... neither side can win outright so both have to look to provoke the other into screwing up. peace, m@2 "You're not really in love with yourself - you're just in love with the idea of being in love with yourself" - said to me by one of the two little fellas who hang out on either of my shoulders ... I can't remember which ... On Wed, 8 Apr 1998, Neal Daskal wrote: >I think you would continue to see similar results. War Machine is set up so that a force defending its homeland has a great advantage. Factor in Glantri's rather high base BR and Troop Class (based on oes >their magic capabilities) and it is unlikely that Ethie could conquer Glantri. >When Jim Bambra wrote the Ethie Gazetteer, he suggested some War Machines wait and BattleSystem mods to make the Ethie's more formidable. IMHO the (not a mods were more significant for BattleSystem and still depended greatly If on fighting in open terrain (i.e. no forest (Alfheim) or mountains (Rockhome or the borders of Glantri). Darokin and the Freeholds ese >would be the ideal targets of Ethie conquest based on terrain and would of best be played under BattleSystem rules. Another consideration is e Great >magic. IIRC, Ethie units and forces never took Hakomans, Clerics, or of Shamans into account. This put them at a mechanical disadvantage relative to Glantri and would also do so if Freeholder units or forces were designed with consideration for the clerical abilities of the t but >Knights. One way to offset this, at least in BattleSystem, would be ic to add Ethie casters as Heroes. One more consideration to prevent must >a stalemate (unless that's what you want) would be to play the Claymore upid Mutiny in Glantri, were the frustrated Fighter types and hidden Clerics efore rose up against the Magic-Users. Always remember that the Ethie's military advantages stem from their discipline, horsemanship, and archery, factors which are easier to expose in the game if BattleSystem is used instead of War Machine. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 11:01:49 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar taking over the world (was Re: PC1 and >>In a message dated 98-04-05 12:47:09 EDT, Alex wrote: >>Now I ask, could the Ethengar not only conquer its neighbors, but also maintain them as vassel states? >>The Ethie are too different from the neighbors. There would be too much of a >>culture clash for peaceful assimilation. Darokinians are not likely to assume >>a nomadic lifestyle. Glantrians sure as heck are not going to. You would >>probably see the Ethie be assimilated into these cultures. Such assimilation >>would cause variation and quite possibly cause internal strife within the >>Ethengar Empire as the conquerors assume the social structure of the subject >>territories (a sort of quasi nationalism). >>Alex >on April 6th Gordon wrote: >To look at how the Ethengarians would conquer people, just look at their real world equivalents, the Mongols. They held the largest land empire the world has ever seen, streching from the Pacific to the Danube (I think, was one of these European rivers anyway :) ). Couldn't cross the Danube, either it was very deep where they were, or the europeans had soldiers, Archers, and Artillery ready to fire at anything that tried to cross the Danube, beside Europe was densely populated compaired to Asia >They conquered the richest countries including China, Persia, Egypt (I think! That may have been where they got kicked back). Actually, they didn't like the hot Sahara Desert, believing that no one could have survived in that condition unlike the Gobi Desert, they decided to go north to Europe where they had encountered the heavy forest and valleys of Yugoslavia for the first time. >And they destroyed the two armies that Europe sent to meet them. There was no army of consequence between them and the atlantic when the Mongols turned away from Europe, because the Khan had died back on the Steppes. >Yup, the Mongols were very capable of taking and holding lands, but they didn't do it wonderfully. They didn't like peasants for instance, didn't see the point of farming and would have happily slaughtered all the chinese farmers if one of their chinese advisors didn't step in and explain that farming could lead to miners being fed, and lots of silver. >Mostly, the Mongols left the same basic social structures in place, just left them without an army or heads of government, and lots of tribute was sent to the Steppes. >Although in some places they did move huge amounts of artisans and metal workers and other skilled people to Mongolia.... >Anyhoo, if the RW mongols can have empires larger than Rome, Alexander, etc, why can't the Ethengarians! 1. Unlike the RW Mongols, they have internal enemys, the Kurkits(i think, haven't bought the Gazeeteer), 2. Their neighbors have always been wary of them, everytime their happens to be a Golden Khan. and finally 3., some of those have a contingency plan in case of a Horde invasion, for Glantri, it's fall back, and fight the battle in your own court, for Heldanner, it's war, or withstand any of their sieges, for the Northern Reaches, the nation of Vestland and Soderfjord will unite, only to fight the ethies in their court, and Darokin will let the Orcland buffer, (a region of land, along the Darokin/Ethengar border, that held by gobliniods) fight their battle, if the gobliniods win, Darokin's ready to wipe them, or leave them alone, if the Ethengar horde wins, then Darokin, will have one less problem, (the Orcs), and they'll be fighting a weakened horde, which the army of Fort Nell, Ft. Fletcher, and Ft. Hobart can handle. >(I'd rekon because they're from too small an area, they're surrounded by mountains, and they're up against countries which are closer to 15th Century Europe than 13th Century...but just IMHO :) ) >gordon ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 14:15:45 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - PC1 and Alfheim << Interesting. I always wondered about a clerical designed and constructed skyship. Women as crews would work as the Ethie do not want to give up their beloved mounts.Though I'll admit to not being sure if a female Ethie can be a soldier. IIRC women are "only good for raising kids" as far as the Ethie care. Though I might be confusing that with Glantri's Prince Jherek. Still, it could be interesting. Perhaps, justifying the female warrior/skyship crews via one of the Ethie's female Immortal's (Terra). >> Jamal, orkhan of the Keshak, the commander of the guard of Moglai Khan, IS a woman. So at least exceptions are possible. But as I said before for the most woman the life as wife and mother is true. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 14:15:41 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: PC1 and Alfheim << The RW models for the Ethengar, the Mongols, also conquered a huge area of the world, but were assimilated into the cultures they conquered rather than vice versa. >> This was true for RW vikings too. They settled in Sicilia, in the Normandy and in Russia (o.k., the "Rus" gave the country its name) and adapted the ways of life of the people already living there. I wouldn't want to see that for Mystaran Vikings (even we have already preserved the Antalian viking culture in the Hollow World) and I wouldn't want to see that for the Ethengars. Please forgive me, but I'd prefer (should the hordes conquer another land) the Ethengarian warrior who lives and works in the city, because he has to do work for his khan, but still prefers the simple and free life on the Sea of Grass. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 14:25:47 EST From: Neal Daskal Subject: Re[4]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World The point I was trying to make, and apparently not doing a good enough job, is that the DM can upset the balance of power if (s)he wishes to run an Ethie's conquer the world campaign. - - Use BattleSystem - - Use the BS mods from the Ethie Gazetteer to create mechanics for the discipline, horsemanship, and archery advantages. - - Use BS Hero rules to bring in hakomans, clerics, and shamans (shamen?). The campaign becomes one of the players figuring out how to use their advantages to win the war. They should reach the point where they play their battles like the description of the attack on the mercenary force in the Gazetteer: hit and run archery tactics in open terrain and annihilation of routing units. >all this discussion of war machine stats and suchlike is interesting, but in the end it just tells me what I already knew ... either side could kick the other one's ass on their home turf. This makes sense because if either DID have the ability to smash the enemy and conquer their land, they would have done so. The fact that there is a stalemate in hypothetical military scenarios fits well with the fact that there is a political stalemate in the current setting. It would seem that a decisive resolution to the Glantri-Ethengar "cold war" in either direction would require powerful allies ... not likely to happen unless something very big happened, like the Huleans conquering Darokin, which would upset the general balance of power. As it stands, all the math you guys have gone through sounds just about right ... neither side can win outright so both have to look to provoke the other into screwing up. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 11:27:32 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - PC1 and Alfheim ><< Hmm.....I'll meddle with this a bit and see if I can put together an Ethie >expansion that would work and also benefit the Ethie. Of course Glantri will >have be in the mix. Probably will include Rockhome as an ally. >> >Hm myself! Here are four (copper) tangs on this theme: >1.: Imagine the Ethengars getting knowledge about building fflying ships! They have enough high-level spellcasters to do the work. As crew I would suggest women as most horse-warriors are probably men. IMC I'm working on that point (short before WotI). (BTW, please no flames from female list members. I'm talking about probabilities and IMC I have introduced another high-level woman. Unfortunately my male players and their characters hold her and Jamal for cowards as they fled a Heldannic warbird and the PCs decide to stand and fight. The problem is that they even won.) Highly unlikely, The Ethengar abhor all types of technology, blame that on the Glantri Incident, where a device exploded, because of an elven blunder, creating the Broken lands >2.: Imagine a century old plan, that one Great Khan from the ppast sent some Ethengars capable to cast magic to Glantri as spies, exactly as sleepers. These sleepers stood under a heavy inheritable Geas that prevented them from remembering their true goals. They and their successsors now live as "traitors" in Glantri and work and fight for their new home but when the big Ethengarian stroke will come, a single password will be enough to convert them. I think you know whom I meant: Prince Jherek Virayana and Prince Urmahid Krinagar and their families. >These two ideas make the foundation of the Il-Khanate Glantri very possible. I like the second idea better since Geas are Priest prayers, and why not have, as an idea get the Khanate to develop faith magic like the FRs? "playing football is like making love to a woman, once you score, it makes all the trying worthwhile." -Chef from South Park. George ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: 08 Apr 1998 13:36:51 -0500 From: Alan Shutko Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Why not PDF/JPG for scanned items? >>>>>"L" == Lord BKis1 writes: L> The original posters(Chris) message was absolutely correct. PDF L> would be the best solution for TSR OOP items. It would require much L> less time and effort to prepare while still preserving the original L> document continuity. The missing information, at least the time that Sean was doing it, is that they want you to be able to _do_ things with it. Ie, modify it for your campaign, etc. This is, of course, impossible with PDF. That's why it's all text or RTF, because those formats are widely usable. L> PDFs look EXACTLY like the original(and have for at least a L> year). As for size, if you translate characters into fonts your L> files sizes will be close to where they are now. Let me see if I understand you. By translating characters into fonts, do you mean OCRing and using T1 fonts, or do you mean creating T3 fonts from the scanned glyphs? The first way is basically the same effort as retypesetting it (unless you have Adobe Capture, which I've heard makes things much easier), and the second way has the same problem as simply scanning it: Acrobat Reader can't antialias bitmaps. So, it'll look considerably less readable than any alternative. If you cut out OCR, you also lose the ability to do anything but print (and kind of view them on screen). You can't search. You can't edit. You can't even annotate, without having the fill Acrobat package. You have very large file sizes which are slow and painful to view, even on decent hardware. Plain text, otoh (I don't even know why some of them are in RTF, because I haven't seen many with fonts or other info) can be hypertexted and viewed in your palmtop. You can index it. You can Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 00:18:15 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #212 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com even typeset it yourself, to get nicely hyperlinked (and _small_) PDF files like I have at http://rescomp.wustl.edu/~ats/rpg/ (images not included, since they balloon the thing to 2.5 MB and this is for demo purposes). L> Now there's one problem with scans to PDF documents. It requires L> anyone authoring with it to buy Acrobat Exchange, which goes for L> something like $299. No, it doesn't. Most scanners I've seen these days come with another Adobe (piece of complete crap) scanning software which can save as PDF. - -- Alan Shutko - By consent of the corrupted Do not think by infection, catching an opinion like a cold. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 15:05:12 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar taking over the world (was Re: PC1 and << Couldn't cross the Danube, either it was very deep where they were, or the europeans had soldiers, Archers, and Artillery ready to fire at anything that tried to cross the Danube, beside Europe was densely populated compaired to Asia >> That was really not the problem! The Great Khan was dead and the troops had to return to elect a new. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 15:05:14 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - PC1 and Alfheim << Highly unlikely, The Ethengar abhor all types of technology, blame that on the Glantri Incident, where a device exploded, because of an elven blunder, creating the Broken lands >> And ships, built by shamans? << I like the second idea better since Geas are Priest prayers, and why not have, as an idea get the Khanate to develop faith magic like the FRs? >> Funny! "Quest" is a clerical spell, and "Geas" is a magic-user's one. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 15:05:16 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - PC1 and Alfheim << Interesting. I always wondered about a clerical designed and constructed skyship. >> Two points: They Ethengars have magic-users (hakomons) who could do the work, but a common task would be more appropiate. And we already have clerical designed and constructed skyships on Mystara: The Heldannic warbirds! Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 13:32:39 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian GAZ >At 17.07 06/04/98 EDT, you wrote: ><< Now a question for the List- Once this puppy is finished, I do wish to >present it to the List as a humble offering. Now I know the sending of attachments is not a favored activity. Would this be a problem. The file would >be in any format MS Word will allow. If it is a problem then I would hhhave to >look at sending the file to all that are interested, based on requests. >Alex >> >I would like a copy too Alex. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 14:07:58 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar invade Darokin? I don't think so. >>actually I would think Darokin is probably the easiest for Ethengars to conquar, as their cavalry would not be nearly as effective in other nations mountainous terrain. >>-- >>John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | >But Darokin's main strength has always been its allies. Glantri would not >sit still for an Ethengarian takeover of the Dwarfgates. Then again, if >Ethengar took the Dwarfgates and settled them, in effect putting down the >humanoids and making the area safer, then Alfhiem and Rockhome might put >pressure on Darokin to leave the Eths alone. True Darokin, has it allies, but if the Ethengar's try to settle in the Dwarfgates, DDC will talk them out of it, and/or pay a huge reward 'tribute' for removing the Gobliniod menace. If the Golden Khan refuse to leave,then it's time for the WDL to kick them out. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 17:28:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: PC1 and Alfheim Alex295 pontificated: >Yep, and the conquering Mongols soon became as Chinese as the folks they conquered. Actually, IIRC, they didn't assmilate very well. A very rigid caste system was set up, with Han (the "pure" chinese) at the bottom. Which was one reason Yuan dynasty (the mongols) fall apart after only 80 some years. In comparson Ch'in dynasty (the manchurians) which mixed better with the Hans lasted 200+, and was brought down mainly due to the rise of western influences. >That would have been me. The Ethie are also surrounded by more organized nations than the RW Mongols. Most are technically superior regarding their armies. These are not Mongol period armies they would be going against. As for Ethie numbers, the situation is once again different. RW Mongols used their vassel peoples to continue the fight. IMO the people of neighboring nations would not be as compliant with this. Most have been soveriegn nations for extended periods. This differs from the tribes that the Mongols conquered. The Mongols defeated these tribes and added them to their army. The exception being China itself who had to be conquered peicemeal and with the combined numbers of the Mongol holdings. Another reason for China's conquest was internal problem. Emperor was weak, and the government was very corrupted. - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 17:35:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar taking over the world (was Re: PC1 and JamugaKhan pontificated: >That was really not the problem! The Great Khan was dead and the troops had to return to elect a new. I believe the Mongols got to Venice, and the city was preparing for a siege, when the troop just left one morning. I think who ever was leading the army was one of the sons, and want to make sure he got the share of the pie. Similar thing happen in India too. - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 17:57:25 -0600 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why not PDF/JPG for scanned items? Lord BKis1 meandered fecklessly... >First let me give some background: I'm a executive in a document management >& data content provider. To sum things up we teach people how to better handle the storage and retrieval of documents. We also facilitate the capture and conversion of all paper, film, and etc. to electronic mediums. >So your going to get a educated opinion on this subject. Well, I am a professional typographic designer, and while my experience with Acrobat is limited (not much call for it in a press-destined shop), I have done a litle work with it, and am at least semi-educated. >The original posters(Chris) message was absolutely correct. PDF would be the >best solution for TSR OOP items. It would require much less time and effort >to prepare while still preserving the original document continuity. I never claimed PDF was bad. Quite the contrary. >PDFs look EXACTLY like the original(and have for at least a year). As for size, if you translate characters into fonts your files sizes will be close >to where they are now. OK, an honest question: how, exactly, do you go from a physical book to a PDF of that book? Unless there are features of Acrobat I don't know about (I am getting it by the end of the month, but do not currenty own it), I thought every thing had to be scanned in then redesigned with proper software. Will Acrobat scan it in, turn text into editable text, the put the graphics and text where they belong? With the same spacing and other formating? Cause if it does that all for ya'... that's pretty damn cool. >Next thing, OCR. Does 98% qualify for inaccurate? Now granted that's not the >type of software you buy at the store. That's a top of the line OCR engine. >But if PDF was the standard OCR wouldn't even be a issue. Right, most people don't have access to a top of the line OCR engine, which means lots of proofing. >Now there's one problem with scans to PDF documents. It requires anyone authoring with it to buy Acrobat Exchange, which goes for something like $299. Since it's volunteer work - I can see that being a problem. Right, which was my point. I will have Acrobat, but most people have no call for it, or the software most suitable for formatting a page for a decent PDF. >One >possibility is for TSR to accept scanned images and running them out to PDF(it really doesn't require much effort). I think it requires enough effort that TSR's extremely small production staff is not going to want to bother with it. That and full scanned pages are going to take up a lot of space. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com ICQ #4253672 "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 00:17:27 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance (was PC1 and Alfheim) While Ethengar probably would be hard pressed to conquer the Known World alone, it would not be beyond the realm of possibility for them to become part of a "Great Entropic Alliance" that very well could do so. The instigator of this alliance would, of course, be Hosadus, the Master of Hule. He would approach the nations where Clerics hold a great deal of power with the idea of banding together against the "godless" nations. Ylaruam would be the first ally, even though they abhor the Sphere of Entropy -- but they would be persuaded by the "enemy of my enemy" argument, as would Rockhome. In Ethengar, the worship of Cretia would come to dominate the faiths of Yamuga and Tubak. The (new?) ruler of the Ethengars would be wholeheartedly committed to the cause. The Heldannic Knights will eventually realize that they have been serving Thanatos and not Vanya, as their spells have been cut off. Many (most?) of them eventually regain their spells by turning to the direct worship of Thanatos. However, they keep this secret to themselves to avoid alienating their Ylari allies and alarming any potential enemies. It would not take much to sway the Shadow Elves to the worship of Atzanteotl -- if that move is successful, then they join in as well. King Alebane in the Broken Lands would be another natural recruit, if the Master bothers. Since the Master has already tried and failed to conquer Darokin once, he is reluctant to try another direct assault. But his agents work hard to subvert Darokinian society -- eventually they succeed in intensifying conflicts among the merchant houses to the point that Darokin becomes embroiled in serious civil disorder. Then the Alliance strikes. The Master takes over western Darokin, Ylaruam takes Selenica, and the Shadow Elves and the goblinoids lay waste to the middle section of Darokin. Meanwhile, Ethengar invades the Northern Reaches and/or Glantri, and the Heldanners use their airships to provide support wherever they are needed. While all this is going on those nations who are not part of the Alliance are facing their own problems. Dolores, Morphail, and perhaps Kol support the Entropics and keep Glantri in too much chaos for it to do more than try to defend itself against the invading Ethengars. Thyatis also has its own problems -- maybe they just started Alex's "Operation Hydra"? The NACE, Ierendi, Wendar, and the Atruaghin plateau can safely be ignored -- they are sufficiently removed from the areas of interest that they pose no threat. Sind is still occupied by Hulean forces and by this point is well on its way to being assimilated into Hule. Resistance to the Entropic Alliance would be based in Karameikos and the Five Shires, which would become the next targets of the Alliance once Darokin is subdued. How would this scenario end? Unless somebody can think of an interesting new twist, it seems that it ends up being a rehash of the "Red Arrow, Black Shield" X10 module -- the big bad Master very nearly conquers the Known World but is stopped at the last minute by a band of Heroic Adventurers. Please -- somebody suggest some complications that could make the final outcome a bit more interesting! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 00:17:33 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Elemental Opposition and Dominance I recently picked up the third Planescape Monstrous Compendium and was rather intrigued by the entry on a monster called the "Wavefire" -- according to its entry, it may have originated in a Paraelemental Plane of Steam located on the border that used to exist between the Elemental Planes of Water and Fire. Well guess what? According to the D&D Rules Cyclopedia, these two planes are indeed adjacent! That "fact" suggests that different dimensions can be radically affected by the interrelationships among the Elemental Planes. In Mystara's dimension, Fire opposes Air and Earth opposes Water. The "Circle of Dominance" ensures that every element is vulnerable to and can be overcome by one other element. On planes where the four elements are in balance (such as Mystara's Prime Plane), this ensures that sufficiently resourceful mortals can gain power indefinitely and eventually become Immortals. This arrangement is highly dynamic and sets no ultimate limits on the power of player characters. The standard AD&D universe has Fire opposed to Water and Air opposed to Earth. No dominance effects occur, so this arrangement is highly stable. In fact, the Outer Planes actually arrange themselves in a "Great Wheel" according to the dual alignment axes of Law/Chaos and Good/Evil. If we assume that the arrangement in the dimension of Mystara is the original one, then it would seem that the Powers of this dimension changed things to secure their power and prevent mortals from challenging them. Of course, that means that a third arrangement must be theoretically possible -- one in which Fire opposes Earth and Air opposes Water. What would such a dimension be like? Maybe that is the arrangement that is inimical to non-elemental Powers -- perhaps some Power tried this arrangement in the dimension of Athas and was promptly extinguished? Certainly in that world the "advanced beings" are clearly mortal and killable. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #212 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:48:50 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #213 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Friday, April 10 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 213 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Re: Why not PDF/JPG for scanned items? Re: [MYSTARA] - PC1 and Alfheim Re: [MYSTARA] - PC1 and Alfheim Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance (was PC1 and Alfheim) Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance (was PC1 and Alfheim) Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Elemental Opposition and Dominance Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance (was PC1 and Alfheim) Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance (was PC1 and Alfheim) [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Elemental Opposition and Dominance Re: [MYSTARA] - Why not PDF/JPG for scanned items? Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance (was PC1 and Alfheim) Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Elemental Opposition and Dominance [MYSTARA] - Heldann Free Hold (I think) Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Why not PDF/JPG for scanned items? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 08 Apr 1998 23:44:03 -0500 From: Alan Shutko Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Why not PDF/JPG for scanned items? >>>>>"L" == Leroy Van Camp writes: L> Will Acrobat scan it in, L> turn text into editable text Once Acrobat gets its hands on it, you've lost any chance of really editing the text. Apparently, Exchange will let you do some minor things on it, but nothing substantial. - -- Alan Shutko - By consent of the corrupted Many are called, few are chosen. Fewer still get to do the choosing. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 08:44:02 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - PC1 and Alfheim In a message dated 98-04-08 15:23:12 EDT, you write: <<> Interesting. I always wondered about a clerical designed and constructed sskyship. >> Two points: They Ethengars have magic-users (hakomons) who could do the work, but a common task would be more appropiate. And we already have clerical designed and constructed skyships on Mystara: The Heldannic warbirds! >> JKhan Khan you know what I mean. I mean skyships built using clerical spells. Cleric based spells not some human handmade made construction powered by Immortal artifacts like the Heldannic warbirds. As for Ethie mages, I agree that they have them. But I would think them to be less chummy than the more predominent clerics. Plus, mage built skyships are an Alphatian specialty. I'd like to see some variation on that theme. I also think clerically created skyships would be viewed more favorably than ones made by mages. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 14:22:30 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - PC1 and Alfheim << Khan you know what I mean. I mean skyships built using clerical spells. Cleric based spells not some human handmade made construction powered by Immortal artifacts like the Heldannic warbirds. >> O.k., a little joke. Sorry for that. << As for Ethie mages, I agree that they have them. But I would think them to be less chummy than the more predominent clerics. Plus, mage built skyships are an Alphatian specialty. I'd like to see some variation on that theme. I also think clerically created skyships would be viewed more favorably than ones made by mages. Alex >> I would like it too. Indeed I was really annoyed about the kind how these warbirds were introduced. An artefact-powered construction is good for clerics but all these wonderful clerical spells were ignored. On the point with the hakomons: These guys are outlaws in a distinctive way, but the services are used by the rest. I don't know if you know the Gazetteer, but there's a short adventure in that a shaman sends the characters to a crazy hakomon on the verge of the Land of the Black Sand. This man has created a special magical item. I don't believe that the hakomons would be ignored by the Great Khan when he would decide to build ships. Jamuga Khan "Er, er, SAIL HO!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 14:22:31 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance (was PC1 and Alfheim) << While Ethengar probably would be hard pressed to conquer the Known World alone, it would not be beyond the realm of possibility for them to become part of a "Great Entropic Alliance" that very well could do so. The instigator of this alliance would, of course, be Hosadus, the Master of Hule. He would approach the nations where Clerics hold a great deal of power with the idea of banding together against the "godless" nations. >> NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry, but this was necessary. Please don't do that to the Ethengars. I couldn't stand that. Jamuga Khan "No funny sig today. Please don't do that!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:25:04 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance (was PC1 and Alfheim) On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, Kaviyd wrote: Im surprised that you didn't mention Denagoth. They would be an obvious ally to the Entrophic Alliance. And then you'd have Wendar involved aswell. >How would this scenario end? Unless somebody can think of an interesting new twist, it seems that it ends up being a rehash of the "Red Arrow, Black Shield" X10 module -- the big bad Master very nearly conquers the Known World but is stopped at the last minute by a band of Heroic Adventurers. Please -- somebody suggest some complications that could make the final outcome a bit more interesting! Well, You could have the badguys win. Plunging the Known World into a Dark Age, oppressed people waiting for a hero to bring light back into the world. Its the classic fantasy cliche, but everybody loves it. Some people may object to this sort of thing because it would have too much impact on the world, but if you are going to have a war, it will change the setting forever. I would like Rockhome to stay out of the conflict and be the ally the heroes would have to come to when they want to restore the world to its former glory.. Hmm..I might actually incorporate this into my campaign, sometime in the future.... *** Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:31:55 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Elemental Opposition and Dominance On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, Kaviyd wrote: >I recently picked up the third Planescape Monstrous Compendium and was rather intrigued by the entry on a monster called the "Wavefire" -- according to its entry, it may have originated in a Paraelemental Plane of Steam located on the border that used to exist between the Elemental Planes of Water and Fire. Well guess what? According to the D&D Rules Cyclopedia, these two planes are indeed adjacent! That "fact" suggests that different dimensions can be radically affected by the interrelationships among the Elemental Planes. At least this could give rise to quite a few new monsters... >In Mystara's dimension, Fire opposes Air and Earth opposes Water. The "Circle of Dominance" ensures that every element is vulnerable to and can be overcome by one other element. On planes where the four elements are in balance (such as Mystara's Prime Plane), this ensures that sufficiently resourceful mortals can gain power indefinitely and eventually become Immortals. This arrangement is highly dynamic and sets no ultimate limits on the power of player characters. >The standard AD&D universe has Fire opposed to Water and Air opposed to Earth. No dominance effects occur, so this arrangement is highly stable. In fact, the Outer Planes actually arrange themselves in a "Great Wheel" according to the dual alignment axes of Law/Chaos and Good/Evil. If we assume that the arrangement in the dimension of Mystara is the original one, then it would seem that the Powers of this dimension changed things to secure their power and prevent mortals from challenging them. >Of course, that means that a third arrangement must be theoretically possible -- one in which Fire opposes Earth and Air opposes Water. What would such a dimension be like? Maybe that is the arrangement that is inimical to non-elemental Powers -- perhaps some Power tried this arrangement in the dimension of Athas and was promptly extinguished? Certainly in that world the "advanced beings" are clearly mortal and killable. But isn't the opositional nature of the elements what make them what they are? If Fire doesn't oppose Water, will it then be Fire? Ofcourse, if you are not talking about the nature of the elements, but merely their location, your argument may be more valid, but I doubt that that would have such a great impact on Prime. Comments? Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 20:59:07 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance (was PC1 and Alfheim) One point I omitted from my previous proposal -- Thyatis actually should be a direct victim of this alliance. Selenica is too small a prize for Ylaruam to be satisfied with, and the Heldannic Knights will want a conquest of their own. A natural possibility would be for Ylaruam to invade northern Thyatis as the Heldannic Knights support the Hattians in a revolt against Thyatian authority. They are unlikely to win in the end, but they will definitely spread a great deal of chaos and destruction into Thyatis. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:28:30 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance (was PC1 and Alfheim) In a message dated 98-04-09 15:49:27 EDT, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no writes: >Im surprised that you didn't mention Denagoth. They would be an obvious aally to the Entrophic Alliance. And then you'd have Wendar involved aswell. Good idea -- it distracts Wendar, just as Ylaruam and the Heldanner/ Hattian coalition distract Thyatis. And your other idea sounds good too, and definitely fits in well with the goals of the Entropic Immortals -- all of the combatants fight one another to exhaustion, leaving the Master victorious over the ruins of the civilizations of the Known World. He then achieves Immortality in the Sphere of Entropy, and his empire collapses as his generals fight among themselves. A century or so later, a new generation of heroes is ready to rebuild civilization.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:28:34 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Elemental Opposition and Dominance Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:48:50 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #213 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com In a message dated 98-04-09 15:55:22 EDT, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no writes: >But isn't the opositional nature of the elements what make them what they aare? If Fire doesn't oppose Water, will it then be Fire? Ofcourse, if you are not talking about the nature of the elements, but merely their location, your argument may be more valid, but I doubt that that would have such a great impact on Prime. >Comments? Fire doesn't oppose Water in the Mystara universe -- it is dominated by it. Regardless of the arrangements of the elements, all of the elements are hostile to one another in various ways. But the circle of dominance is a major point in the philosophy behind Mystara, and it affects many other areas as well (such as the associated Immortal Spheres). The result is a world that is far more dynamic than the standard AD&D worlds, which tend to be fairly stable as long as the gods behave themselves. (Fortunately for the excitement of the players, they haven't behaved themselves!) And what is this circle? Fire dominates Earth (probably by burning it). Earth dominates Air (by clogging it?). Air dominates Water (by dispersing it). Water dominates Fire (by extinguishing it). So whereas the Elemental planes of the standard AD&D universe are fairly static, those of the Mystara universe are ever changing -- each element is continuously gaining ground from the element that it dominates and losing ground to the element that it is dominated by. And this circle gives great power to those Primes who know about it -- if you have access to the powers of all four elements, then you have at any time a weapon that will dominate any foe who depends on the powers of any single element. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 20:50:11 +0000 From: "Mike Harvey" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why not PDF/JPG for scanned items? >Adobes Acrobat reader eats up 5 Meg (or more wih plugins) of disk space. .PDF documents take up too much disk space. Acrobat documents are unreadable on the screens of some computers. Unless you buy the full package, you can't edit the docs. I have had a LOT of trouble printing PDF documents. Seems like the printer always runs out of memory or something... Mike - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bing@iccom.com (formerly mike@cs.pdx.edu) Mike Harvey HTTP://www.iccom.com/usrwww/bing/home.html Beaverton, Oregon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:08:47 EDT From: BoBo II Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance (was PC1 and Alfheim) What about such factors as: Disease:it's laid low armies in both the real and Known world. Weather :ditto Luck: the death of any leader can flatten an invasion, especially in the fear/loyalty-based armies of medieval(-based) armies. Desertion: when you conquer the world, there's bound to be a lot of plunder, and soldiers ready to go home once they have some. Good old fashioned Internal Dissention :whether ambitious underlings, haughty/independent generals, or "allied nations" (many who would be tempted to turn on their friends the moment it's advantageous to their own interests). **a great book about life in the Middle Ages, A Distant Mirror, describes many of the problems involved in waging feudal warfare** Of course, the will of the Immortals can overcome many of these prob's. Yet . . . While religious differences can be overcome by political necessity, they can also drive huge wedges between group that might otherwise be "natural allies" on paper. So I'm afraid that in the long run, I don't see to the GEA lasting much longer than ,say, the thousand year Reich. Sure would make Mystara an interesting place to adventure for a couple decades, though. IMHO. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 22:15:38 -0400 From: Derek Harmon Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Elemental Opposition and Dominance Kaviyd wrote: >Planes of Water and Fire. Well guess what? According to the D&D Rules Cyclopedia, these two planes are indeed adjacent! That "fact" suggests that different dimensions can be radically affected by the interrelationships among the Elemental Planes. Actually, I think you got totally carried away with the Circle of Dominance, which was used to illustrate the effect on magic on the Elemental Planes. It is NOT a map. The Plane of Water does not border the Plane of Fire. D&D specifies no orientation of placement, the Elemental Planes mere- ly exist. You don't walk to the edge of the Plane of Fire and step into the ocean of the Plane of Water. They have no edges! >In Mystara's dimension, Fire opposes Air and Earth opposes Water. If your Mystara is a D&D Mystara, as opposed to an AD&D Mystara, yes. >The "Circle of Dominance" ensures that every element is vulnerable to and can be overcome by one other element. Vulnerability from one element, yes. Invulnerability to another, and hostility to that element which you are opposed to. >On planes where >the four elements are in balance (such as Mystara's Prime Plane), this ensures that sufficiently resourceful mortals can gain power indefinitely and eventually become Immortals. How does it ensure that? >This arrangement is >highly dynamic and sets no ultimate limits on the power of player characters. Well, for one, if they become Immortals they leave the Prime and then are subject to the laws of any other plane. So, ultimately, it does limit them. For a second, there is nothing dynamic about the Circle of Dominance, if you subscribe to it in your D&D Mystara. It won't suddenly change, or anything. >The standard AD&D universe has Fire opposed to Water and Air opposed to Earth. No dominance effects occur, so this arrangement is highly stable. Incorrect. In AD&D, Fire and Water have dominance over each other. A fire creature takes double damage from a water attack, and vice versa, as per the D&D definition of dominance. You may be confusing their oppo- sition on the "map" from AD&D with the D&D definition of "opposition" (bad reaction to each other.) But as pointed out, D&D has no map for elemental planes. >In fact, the Outer Planes actually arrange themselves in a "Great Wheel" according to the dual alignment axes of Law/Chaos and Good/Evil. If we assume that the arrangement in the dimension of Mystara is the original one, then it would seem that the Powers of this dimension changed things to secure their power and prevent mortals from challenging them. Powers in the AD&D dimension? Well, sure, they have totally dif- ferent physics from the D&D dimensions. Meaning, game rule-wise. I don't know that the Powers changed anything, but rather the rules in the AD&D universe were always (in game time) like that. >Of course, that means that a third arrangement must be theoretically possible -- one in which Fire opposes Earth and Air opposes Water. If you are using the D&D definition of the term "opposes," there are several arrangements of that.. you have to specify dominances as well. So, for purposes of your question, I'll assume you mean the AD&D definition, which is doing double damage to each other and being on opposite sides of the map. >What would such a dimension be like? Earth Elementals do double damage to Fire Elementals... etc, a few para-elemental planes move to different sides of the map. >Maybe that is the arrangement >that is inimical to non-elemental Powers How so? Even if you applied the Circle of Dominance to it (you'd still have to specify the dominances, because there are several ambiguous circles the way you specified it here) with dominances, you'd still have the one element can beat another element thing such that [this is by your line of reasoning] any sufficiently resourceful mortal can become immortal. >-- perhaps some Power tried >this arrangement in the dimension of Athas and was promptly extinguished? I know nothing about Dark Sun, but whether you're using the AD&D Prime or the D&D Prime, its just another world in the Prime (or so I'd think, not knowing Dark Sun.) >Certainly in that world the "advanced beings" are clearly mortal and killable. -- Stonelight *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:41:38 -0300 From: edu@giga.com.ar Subject: [MYSTARA] - Heldann Free Hold (I think) I revised the Cyclopedia Rules maps and I saw a part of the Heldann Free Hold. What's that? I think they have something in common with the Heldannic Knights, but how's this kindom? Thanks and Hag Pesah Sameah Jonathan Leibiusky edu@giga.com.ar *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 22:48:15 -0600 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Why not PDF/JPG for scanned items? Alan Shutko mandered fecklessly... >L> Will Acrobat scan it in, >L> turn text into editable text >Once Acrobat gets its hands on it, you've lost any chance of really editing the text. Apparently, Exchange will let you do some minor things on it, but nothing substantial. Oh, I know that; I have done some work with Acrobat, and will be getting it in a week or two. What I meant was does Acrobat take a scanned image and recreate it for you pretty much exactly, but with the scanned text OCR'ed into editable text, before it is turned into the final PDF file. If it does, great. If it doesn't, we are still back to my original point, that being most people don't have the proper software available to them to do a suitable job of formatting a document for PDF distillation. To bring this back 'round to Mystara, does it really matter for us? The only things availble online are the Shadowelves Gazetteer and the Savage Coast setting. I believe the SE was created in a format that cannot be distilled to PDF (it is a wee bit old), and thus a text file is all that was available. The Savage Coast stuff never made it far enough in design before they ditched it and put it on the net. In both these cases there is nothing suitable to put into a PDF, and I don't blame TSR for not putting in time and effort to do so. It is free, after all. That leaves volunteers, but how many of us have the tools necessary to do this? (i.e. Acrobat and a page layout program). And of those who might, how many have the time? Or the skill? As mentioned before, I did offer my services to the web guy at WotC, but never got a reply. Perhaps he doesn't like volunteers? I am currently about a quarter of the way done with the Savage Coast Monstrous Compendium Appendix, and when I am done and have the PDF, I will e-mail him again. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com ICQ #4253672 "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #213 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 17:51:23 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #214 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Friday, April 10 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 214 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance (was PC1 and Alfheim) Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Elemental Opposition and Dominance Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance (was PC1 and Alfheim) Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance (was PC1 and Alfheim) [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Elemental Opposition and Dominance Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Elemental Opposition and Dominance [MYSTARA] -happy easter.... Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Elemental Opposition and Dominance Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Elemental Opposition and Dominance [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing [MYSTARA] - Darokin [MYSTARA] - PWA and Trail Maps Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Why not PDF/JPG for scanned items? [MYSTARA] - Re: Re: Why not PDF/JPG for scanned items? Re: [MYSTARA] - Heldann Free Hold (I think) Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance (was PC1 and Alfheim) Re: [MYSTARA] - PWA and Trail Maps Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance (was PC1 and Alfheim) Re: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 02:03:26 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance (was PC1 and Alfheim) I thought of a way that my "Great Entropic Alliance" might actually give the Ethengars the ability to conquer the Known World. Instead of becoming members of that Alliance, they are one of the nations subverted by it. The followers of Cretia wreak considerable havoc but fail to take over Ethengar. Since the Ethengars are not all that civilized to begin with (they are nomads, after all), the Master's war cannot do much more than kill many of their people -- and these losses are easily replaced in a generation or two. By that point the Known World has been devastated, and with the Master's departure to the realms of the Immortals his generals are busy destroying whatever is left as they fight one another. At this point a new leader could arise among the Ethengars, and he would potentially be able to rise up against the successors to the Master and "liberate" the Known World. This scenario could easily parallel real world history in many ways.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:56:39 +0000 From: "Mike Harvey" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Elemental Opposition and Dominance >But isn't the opositional nature of the elements what make them what they are? If Fire doesn't oppose Water, will it then be Fire? It may be instructional to consider the "real" logic behind the four elements. The four elements are combinations of two basic properties: hot/cold, and wet/dry. So they could be arranged on a graph like this: FIRE (hot) AIR | | (dry) <--------METAL---------> (wet) | | EARTH (cold) WATER Each element further had a primary and secondary property: PRIMARY SECONDARY Air hot wet Fire dry hot Earth cold dry Water wet cold Opposition is pretty obvious in this system, but I'm not sure how dominance worked. I *think* that fire and water were diametrically opposed, and therefore mutually exclusive (adding fire to water results in mutual destruction). Air dominates Fire in the "hot" aspect, and is dominated by Water in the "wet" aspect. Transmution of elements was accomplished by changing the basic properties: remove heat from fire, and you get earth (ashes). Add heat to water, you get air (steam). Obviously this system does not work for all real-world processes, but it does have a certain logic and can be useful for coming up with interesting game effects. Unfortunately, it does not really match the Mystaran system (or perhaps more accurately, the Mystaran system does not follow the alchemical system). In answer to your question, if Fire doesn't oppose Water, then the underlying properties must be different. Fire by any other name... Mike - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bing@iccom.com (formerly mike@cs.pdx.edu) Mike Harvey HTTP://www.iccom.com/usrwww/bing/home.html Beaverton, Oregon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 04:00:55 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance (was PC1 and Alfheim) In a message dated 98-04-10 00:26:52 EDT, BoBoII@aol.com writes: >So I'm afraid that in the long run, I don't see to the GEA llasting much longer than ,say, the thousand year Reich. Sure would make Mystara an interesting place to adventure for a couple decades, though. IMHO. That sounds about right to me -- that Alliance is certainly not meant to be long lasting, and it has some potential divergences of interest right from the beginning. And this war, like our own World War II, would certainly change the world forever regardless of the final outcome.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 04:00:53 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance (was PC1 and Alfheim) In a message dated 98-04-10 00:26:52 EDT, BoBoII@aol.com writes: >What about such factors as: >Disease:it's laid low armies in both the real and Known world. Weather :ditto >Luck: the death of any leader can flatten an invasion, especially in the fear/loyalty-based armies of medieval(-based) armies. Desertion: when you conquer the world, there's bound to be a lot of plunder, >and soldiers ready to go home once they have some. Good old fashioned Internal Dissention :whether ambitious underlings, haughty/independent generals, or "allied nations" (many who would be tempted >to turn on their friends the moment it's advantageous to their own interests) Yep, those should all be factors. Of course, given that it is the Entropic Immortals who would be stirring up this whole war, they would probably consider the calamities you describe as added bonuses.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 04:01:03 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Elemental Opposition and Dominance In a message dated 98-04-10 00:25:53 EDT, derek@ix.netcom.com writes: >Actually, I think you got totally carried away with the Circle of Dominance, which was used to illustrate the effect on magic on the Elemental >Planes. It is NOT a map. But it does suggest a different relationship among the elements. One thing I meant to suggest but never clearly stated is that this circle of dominance is a unique feature of the Mystara (D&D) universe. And that same concept applies to many other things than the elemental planes -- it is a key to the diversity of the Mystara/D&D universe. >The Plane of Water does not border the Plane of FFire. D&D specifies no orientation of placement, the Elemental Planes mere- >ly exist. You don't walk to the edge of the Plane of Fire and step into the ocean of the Plane of Water. They have no edges! True enough -- going by the basic D&D cosmology, the Elemental Planes would be completely separate from one another and have no borders. But that would be less interesting -- it eliminates the whole concept of alternate Para-Elemental Planes suggested by that Wavefire monster entry in the new Planescape book. >>On planes where >>the four elements are in balance (such as Mystara's Prime Plane), this ensures that sufficiently resourceful mortals can gain power indefinitely and eventually become Immortals. >How does it ensure that? At modest levels of power, a knowledgeable spell caster can use his knowledge of the elements to come up with the most effective power to use against any elemental foe. Are you facing a hostile Earth Elemental? Fight it with fire mage. Are you facing an angry Efreeti? Use water magic. Whatever element an elemental foe is associated with, a spell caster from the Prime Material Plane has the advantage of access to the element that dominates the element in question. Knowledge and flexibility are required. But remember that this circle of dominance underlies many aspects of Mystara, not just elemental magic. By exploiting this and other circles that are in dynamic equilibrium, sufficiently clever adventurers can gain tremendous power and even attain Immortality. How? Well remember that the Immortals have divergent interests. If you have alienated one Immortal, it is quite likely (if you are not an utter fool) that you have greatly pleased an Immortal who is hostile to him. WotI has more than one case of an Immortal candidate who petitioned one Immortal, failed to satisfy his patron, and then gained Immortality under another patron. These are yet more examples of gaining power through flexibility. >>This arrangement is >>highly dynamic and sets no ultimate limits on the power of player characters. >Well, for one, if they become Immortals they leave the Prime and then are subject to the laws of any other plane. So, ultimately, it does limit them. But in most ways Immortals are less limited than mortals -- and Old Ones are even less limited. And we are not even sure that the Old Ones are the ultimate powers -- we know too little about them to be sure. >For a second, there is nothing dynamic about the Circle of Dominance, if you subscribe to it in your D&D Mystara. It won't suddenly change, or anything. It is a "dynamic equilibrium" -- the change is constant. It is much like the climate of most temperate regions in the real world: Spring gives way to Summer, Summer to Fall, Fall to Winter, Winter to Spring, and then the cycle starts all over again. If you take a short view, you would see change; if you take a slightly longer view, you would see stability; if you take an even longer view, you begin to perceive larger cycles of climactic change. >>The standard AD&D universe has Fire opposed to Water and Air opposed to Earth. No dominance effects occur, so this arrangement is highly stable. >Incorrect. In AD&D, Fire and Water have dominance over each other. A fire creature takes double damage from a water attack, and vice versa, as per the D&D definition of dominance. You may be confusing their oppo- sition on the "map" from AD&D with the D&D definition of "opposition" (bad reaction to each other.) But as pointed out, D&D has no map for elemental planes. It is your idea of "dominance" that is incorrect. The dominant element has a major advantage over the element that it dominates. If the Fire and Water Elementals both take increased damage from the other, neither has a net advantage -- they just finish their fights a bit quicker. In the D&D universe, Fire fears Water -- and in a battle between a Fire Elemental and a Water Elemental of roughly equal power, the Water Elemental will win easily. In the AD&D universe, the Fire Elemental would have a fighting chance. This difference is not a trivial one. >>In fact, the Outer Planes actually arrange themselves >>in a "Great Wheel" according to the dual alignment axes of Law/Chaos and Good/Evil. If we assume that the arrangement in the dimension of Mystara is the original one, then it would seem that the Powers of this dimension changed things to secure their power and prevent mortals from challenging them. >Powers in the AD&D dimension? Well, sure, they have totally dif- ferent physics from the D&D dimensions. Meaning, game rule-wise. I don't know that the Powers changed anything, but rather the rules in the AD&D universe were always (in game time) like that. Well, I did make a different assumption. I figured that the settings for the universe that allowed the most growth had to be the original one -- otherwise, where did the Immortals/Old Ones/Powers come from? >>Of course, that means that a third arrangement must be theoretically possible -- one in which Fire opposes Earth and Air opposes Water. >If you are using the D&D definition of the term "opposes," there are several arrangements of that.. you have to specify dominances as well. Not at all -- I am suggesting that the circle of dominance applies only in a universe organized like that of Mystara. If you alter the relationships among the elements, the circle is broken, and all you have left are opposition pairs. Come to think of it, that idea of "breaking" the circle is another argument for the D&D arrangement being "original" -- a far stronger one than the vague speculations in regard to the Wavefire. >I know nothing about Dark Sun, but whether you're using the AD&D Prime or the D&D Prime, its just another world in the Prime (or so I'd think, not knowing Dark Sun.) I actually know of no game setting that explicitly uses the third possible arrangement of the elements -- but if any AD&D world does, Athas would be the most likely choice, as it differs radically from both Mystara and the standard AD&D game worlds. It does have Para-Elemental Clerics, but I find it curious that of the four types described only the Sun Cleric (which as a combination of Fire and Air is impossible only in the Mystara universe) was actually cited as existing in the novels -- of course, if I am wrong about this then Athas would indeed have to be structured like other AD&D worlds, and its differences would require a different explanation. But if my suggestion does have any merit, then each of the three possible arrangements of the elements has different effects on the overall structure of the universe: Arrangement 1 (Mystara/D&D): Circle of dominance applies, no alignment can dominate for long, world is in constant flux. Outer planes are arranged haphazardly. Arrangement 2 (standard AD&D): Cosmic stability holds sway, law and goodness are favored, and there is an unbridgeable gulf between mortals and immortals. Outer planes are arranged systematically in "Great Wheel". Arrangement 3 (Athas?): World is in decay, chaos and evil are favored, and the outer planes and their associated Powers do not exist. Needless to say, this third arrangement would be the least popular among those who are capable of carrying out such changes, while the second arrangement would be the most popular, as it secures the positions of the ultimate Powers in the surest possible way. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 04:28:38 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Elemental Opposition and Dominance In a message dated 98-04-10 03:04:14 EDT, bing@iccom.com writes: >Each element further had a primary and secondary property: >PRIMARY SECONDARY >Air hot wet >Fire dry hot >Earth cold dry >Water wet cold >Opposition is pretty obvious in this system, but I'm not sure how dominance worked. I *think* that fire and water were diametrically opposed, and therefore mutually exclusive (adding fire to water results in mutual destruction). Air dominates Fire in the "hot" aspect, and is dominated by Water in the "wet" aspect. This system does suggest a basis for both the Mystaran system and the traditional AD&D system, and perhaps also provides a rationale for the non-existence of my proposed third alternative. The scheme described above gives a solid rationale for the standard AD&D elemental scheme in its standard form -- in this scheme, the elemental opposites are those that share no properties in common. But I would have to question the exact choice of primary and secondary properties -- Why is Fire primarily Dry and not Hot? Why is Earth primarily Cold and not Dry? And why is Air primarily Hot or Wet? I have felt many breezes that were cold and dry. To get the Mystaran scheme, you would need to make each property an element in itself. "Wet" becomes "Water", "Hot" becomes "Fire", and "Dry" becomes "Earth", leaving "Cold" to become "Air" -- which is not adjacent to Air on the diagram, but never mind. Anyway, the alternate arrangement based on the four properties would Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 17:51:23 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #214 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com give the Mystaran arrangment -- and would provide the seeds of the circle of dominance. For example, the "Hot" element of "Fire" combines with the "Dry" element of "Earth" by consuming it -- so "Fire" would dominate "Earth". The rest of the circle would be derived in a similar manner. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:52:36 +0200 From: Enrico Subject: [MYSTARA] -happy easter.... Happy Easter... Happy Passover.... Happy Eli-ul-Adha..... To orcs, elves , humans etc etc... Enrico *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 07:20:51 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Elemental Opposition and Dominance << Actually, I think you got totally carried away with the Circle of Dominance, which was used to illustrate the effect on magic on the Elemental Planes. It is NOT a map. The Plane of Water does not border the Plane of Fire. D&D specifies no orientation of placement, the Elemental Planes mere- ly exist. You don't walk to the edge of the Plane of Fire and step into the ocean of the Plane of Water. They have no edges! >> In AD&D there are borders from one elemental plane to the next. They aren't as drastic as stepping from the water plane into the earth plane however. That's why the para and quasi elemental planes were created. Planes of steam, magma, lightning, and many others that slowly take you from one of the major Elemental planes to the next. <> Is this from a D&D sourcebook or is this your own hypothesis? I just don't remember reading anything like that before. I know that in AD&D they offset eachother....and i don't see why they wouldn't in D&D. Earth and Air destroy eachother equally (ex. a tornado may tear up Earth and structures, but at the cost of having it's winds slowed and dispersed). The same goes for water and fire. Water doesn't destroy fire without the cost of sacraficing itself. If you dumped a bucket of lava into a tub filled with water (don't try this at home) then both would break down until one ran out of fuel. In this case the water would be gone and the lava would remain. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 07:29:22 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Elemental Opposition and Dominance << At modest levels of power, a knowledgeable spell caster can use his knowledge of the elements to come up with the most effective power to use against any elemental foe. Are you facing a hostile Earth Elemental? Fight it with fire mage. Are you facing an angry Efreeti? Use water magic. Whatever element an elemental foe is associated with, a spell caster from the Prime Material Plane has the advantage of access to the element that dominates the element in question. Knowledge and flexibility are required. >> Correct, but going by the same rules...... an Efreeti that is weak against water, is resistant to fire magic. Fireball, burning hands, and meteor shower just aren't the same when they only inflict half damage (quarter damage if saving throw is made). That's how everything in D&D is. One power results in one weakness. It is not flexible. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:22:03 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing Thought I'd throw in my ten pence worth... You know, having been corrupted by AD+D I had forgotten about that elemental dominance thing they had in the old rules. But, concerning Mystara having "something special" about it elementally... I seem to recall in the old Immortals set something about Mystara being the only place in the multiverse where the five Spheres are in perfect balance - and this being the reason why Mystara is responsible for so many Immortals (presumably the never ending conflict (balance) between the Spheres is to blame). Now, admittedly this is Spheres, and not elements, but each Sphere is connected to an element... So I think this elemental discussion does have a point to it... If I could find my old Immortals set I'd give my opinion, but, perhaps fortunately for all of you, I can't... :-) Rob The more I study, the more I learn The more I learn, the more I know The more I know, the more I forget The more I forget, the less I know So why study? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:28:26 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: [MYSTARA] - Darokin According to Darokinian law a new Outer Council is elected every 8 years. Does someone of you know if such an election was ever mentioned in the PWAs (or some other canon product)? What about the Great Reckoning, which is undertaken every five years? - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:38:48 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: [MYSTARA] - PWA and Trail Maps Have you ever noticed that the average seasonal temperatures reported in the PWA are different from the ones in the TM? BTW: I think that those in the TM make much more sense. For example: Glantri City, winter: PWA: -15, 25 °F (i.e. -26, -4 °C) TM: 15, 25 °F (i.e. -9, -4 °C) Opinions? PS: has anyone written TM-style climate stats for cities not mentioned in the TM? - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:22:08 -0500 From: "Lord BKis1" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Why not PDF/JPG for scanned items? >Alan Shutko mandered fecklessly... >>L> Will Acrobat scan it in, >>L> turn text into editable text >>Once Acrobat gets its hands on it, you've lost any chance of really editing the text. Apparently, Exchange will let you do some minor things on it, but nothing substantial. >Oh, I know that; I have done some work with Acrobat, and will be getting it in a week or two. >What I meant was does Acrobat take a scanned image and recreate it for you pretty much exactly, but with the scanned text OCR'ed into editable text, before it is turned into the final PDF file. >If it does, great. If it doesn't, we are still back to my original point, that being most people don't have the proper software available to them to do a suitable job of formatting a document for PDF distillation. The layout is retained from the original scan of the image. You have the opsion of OCRing the characters into a font or embeding the OCR into the document. Thus the scans are retained as bitmaps but for searchs there's a layer of text. It should be noted that the document storage size increases greatly using the embeding method. But you can only clean up OCR errors in the text. If you want to modify the document(for your campaign) you will need 3rd party toolkits. >To bring this back 'round to Mystara, does it really matter for us? The only things availble online are the Shadowelves Gazetteer and the Savage Coast setting. I believe the SE was created in a format that cannot be distilled to PDF (it is a wee bit old), and thus a text file is all that was available. TThe Savage Coast stuff never made it far enough in design before they ditched it and put it on the net. IIn both these cases there is nothing suitable to put into a PDF, and I don't blame TSR for not putting in time and effort to do so. It is free, after all. That leaves volunteers, but how many of us have the tools necessary to do this? (i.e. Acrobat and a page layout program). And of those who might, how many have the time? Or the skill? I can see your point. >As mentioned before, I did offer my services to the web guy at WotC, but never got a reply. Perhaps he doesn't like volunteers? I am currently about a quarter of the way done with the Savage Coast Monstrous Compendium Appendix, and when I am done and have the PDF, I will e-mail him again. I remeber reading some guide lines for summiting. I don't think they'll answer e-mails for that. I think you just have to send them. It's been awhile, so I could be wrong. >Leroy Van Camp III >malacoda@lesbois.com >owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com >ICQ #4253672 >"You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MMST3K >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: 10 Apr 1998 10:27:53 -0500 From: Alan Shutko Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Re: Why not PDF/JPG for scanned items? >>>>>"L" == Leroy Van Camp writes: L> I believe the SE was created in a L> format that cannot be distilled to PDF (it is a wee bit old), and L> thus a text file is all that was available. I find that very hard to believe, since Postscript has been the standard for publishing for... well, years. I'm sure over a decade, at least. More likely, they either couldn't load the SE back up, because it was on a machine that was fried (like early dragons) or they simply didn't want to use PDF. - -- Alan Shutko - By consent of the corrupted Wedding rings are the world's smallest handcuffs. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:11:51 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Heldann Free Hold (I think) << I revised the Cyclopedia Rules maps and I saw a part of the Heldann Free Hold. What's that? I think they have something in common with the Heldannic Knights, but how's this kindom? >> It's a little bit difficult. All Mystara about the so-called "Known World" was set in AC 1000. Some countries were better decribed as other. The Heldann Freeholds were descibed first in the first review of Mystara in X1 - Isle of Dread. They are described as a northern culture, comparable to Iceland. When the developement continued the Heldannic Knights came into the game. The newest information sayd the the HF are dominated by the knights for some decades. The official name ist now "Territories of the Heldannic Knights", but obviously this was not known for quite a time and even now many people call the country by its old name. Hope this helps Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:11:52 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance (was PC1 and Alfheim) << By that point the Known World has been devastated, and with the Master's departure to the realms of the Immortals his generals are busy destroying whatever is left as they fight one another. At this point a new leader could arise among the Ethengars, and he would potentially be able to rise up against the successors to the Master and "liberate" the Known World. This scenario could easily parallel real world history in many ways.... >> Hm, I'm not sure if I would like THAT idea... Probably I must think it over. Some other questions: How should this idea be used? Should it be described in forthcoming Mystara Almanacs? Do a majority of Mystara lovers accept such a dramatic change? And how many (Mystaran) years are necessary? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:11:56 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - PWA and Trail Maps << Have you ever noticed that the average seasonal temperatures reported in the PWA are different from the ones in the TM? >> As it happens, no. But I've never made the work to compute the Celsius degrees. << BTW: I think that those in the TM make much more sense. For example: Glantri City, winter: PWA: -15, 25 °F (i.e. -26, -4 °C) TM: 15, 25 °F (i.e. -9, -4 °C) >> OTOH Gantri is a mountainous country. In such an environment really cold winters are possible. Ten years ago Germany had such a cold winter that even the lowlands dropped to -20 °C and in the last winter we had some days around -8 °C, although it was a very mild winter. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:19:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance (was PC1 and Alfheim) At 02:11 PM 4/10/98 EDT, you wrote: >Probably I must think it over. >Some other questions: How should this idea be used? Should it be described in forthcoming Mystara Almanacs? Do a majority of Mystara lovers accept such a dramatic change? And how many (Mystaran) years are necessary? Hang on, here...the Known World just went through a seriously nasty war. Now you want to have another one? If anyone were to consider invading the Known World from any direction, there's an important point to consider: there are a LOT of veterans of the Glantri-Alphatian war all over the place, and they all remember how to use a sword (or spear, or bow, or whatever). The nations of the Known World would all be able to get back to battle-readiness in a hurry. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 17:50:58 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing << Now, admittedly this is Spheres, and not elements, but each Sphere is connected to an element... So I think this elemental discussion does have a point to it... >> Which spheres are connected to which elements? - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #214 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Saturday, April 11 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 215 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Darokin Re: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Elemental Opposition and Dominance [MYSTARA] - Elements/Spheres - alternate Prime? Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Elemental Opposition and Dominance [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Elemental Opposition and Dominance [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Elemental Opposition and Dominance Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance (was PC1 and Alfheim) Re: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Elemental Opposition and Dominance Re: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Elemental Opposition and Dominance Re: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing Re: [MYSTARA] - Elemental Opposition and Dominance (long) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 09:20:22 EST From: "Shawn Stanley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Darokin >According to Darokinian law a new Outer Council is elected every 8 years. >Does someone of you know if such an election was ever mentioned in the PWAs >(or some other canon product)? >What about the Great Reckoning, which is undertaken every five years? The Great Reckoning was meant to be held in AC 1013 - it was another one of those things that Joshuan never got around to mentioning, go fig. Don't know about the Outer COuncil though. The trouble is that things *never* get better, they just stay the same, only more so. - Terry Pratchett, Eric stan http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 21:11:57 EDT From: Duncan TKD Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing Which Spheres were connected to what elements? Good Question. I seem to remember that Matter was connected to Earth and Energy was connected to Fire. As for the other two I am unsure, but I think Thought was connected to Air, and Time was connected to Watter. Entropy had no elemental attachment. Duncan TKD Friend to the Wendarian Ranger Dalros Evenningstar *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 21:45:56 -0400 From: Derek Harmon Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Elemental Opposition and Dominance Kaviyd wrote: >Fire doesn't oppose Water in the Mystara universe -- it is dominated by it. Sort of like in the real world, huh? I mean, if you have a fire, and you throw water on it, the fire is extinguished. Going the other way, it you have a puddle of water, and you spray fire on it.. very gradually its temper- ature will increase and it will evaporate. Hence, minimal damage. Of course, in the elemental sense described in the Rules Cyclopedia, superheated water is still water (as per the description of breathing in the Plane of Water,) so no damage but change of state. >Regardless of the arrangements of the elements, all of the elements are hostile to one another in various ways. But the circle of dominance is a major point in the philosophy behind Mystara, and it affects many other I disagree. It is a major.. well, actually, it is a minor point in the D&D rules system. It has no specific relation to Mystara per se, unless you use D&D rules in Mystara, in which case it does. But many AD&D Mystaras exist and for them, it has no bearing. >areas as well (such as the associated Immortal Spheres). The result is The Immortal Spheres are totally separate from the Elemental Planes. Matter, Thought, Energy, et al., have no specific correlation with Earth, Air, Fire, etc. Certainly, you cannot extrapolate the Circle of Dominance to apply to the Spheres. : [snip of dynamicism vs. stability] : >And what is this circle? Fire dominates Earth (probably by burning it). Earth dominates Air (by clogging it?). Air dominates Water (by dispersing it). Water dominates Fire (by extinguishing it). So whereas the Elemental planes of the standard AD&D universe are fairly static, those of the Mystara universe are ever changing -- each element is continuously gaining ground from the element that it dominates and losing ground to the element that it is dominated by. 'Okay' in a sense. Though "gaining ground" and "losing ground" does not apply to actual territory, since the Elemental Planes are infinite, and there is no map of them in D&D. They all coexist with the Prime. >And this circle gives great power to those Primes who know about it -- if you have access to the powers of all four elements, then you have at But can you truely attain substantial power in more than one? By the circle, no. If you add a second element to your repertoire, it either fears for weakness, destroys from strength, or hates due to opposition your previous element. You can't for example, create both Fire and Earth Elementals and expect them to obey you. >any time a weapon that will dominate any foe who depends on the powers of any single element. You can switch elements, if you are 'resourceful,' but you can never be all-powerful in all elements at one time, and therein lies any mortal's weakness. -- Stonelight *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 03:23:00 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Elements/Spheres - alternate Prime? I just found my old Immortals box!!!!!!! Anyway, after having a brief leaf through it - what it says about the Spheres/Elements is that the Prime Plane(not Mystara as I first thought) is the only plane where the Five Spheres and the elements are in perfect balance. The Sphere are related to the elements(Matter = Earth, Time = Water, Thought = Air, Energy = Fire, Entropy = the void, ie no element at all), but the balance of the Spheres is implied to be different from the balance of the elements, ie they are not the same thing (I think... duh). The Immortals theorise that it is these two balances in action that promote the creation of new Immortals. Translating the whole thing to AD+D though causes a few problems. I suggest that (as Mystara is the only world with Immortals, meaning perhaps other worlds dont have this balance) Mystara exists in an alternate Prime, where the above balances hold. I suppose this means that the old elemental dominance stuff could be wheeled out for use on Mystara - it would hold with this theory... Rob The more I study, the more I learn The more I learn, the more I know The more I know, the more I forget The more I forget, the less I know. So why study? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 23:04:06 -0400 From: Derek Harmon Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Elemental Opposition and Dominance Kaviyd wrote: >In a message dated 98-04-10 00:25:53 EDT, derek@ix.netcom.com writes: >But it does suggest a different relationship among the elements. One thing I meant to suggest but never clearly stated is that this circle of dominance is a unique feature of the Mystara (D&D) universe. And that same concept applies to many other things than the elemental planes -- it is a key to the diversity of the Mystara/D&D universe. Like the Immortal Spheres? As there I disagree since there isn't a circle of dominance for them (and shouldn't be.) You could analogize them to the Outer Planes as the elemental planes affect the Prime, different Outer Planes are made of different parts of Matter, Energy, etc, some entirely or mostly so. However, there is no corresponding entity for the Sphere of Entropy amongst the Inner Planes; so a different relationship exists for them. And as to 'many other things,' I'm not sure how far you want to take it. Dragons kill Kobolds. Kobolds kill Men. Men kill Dragons? >>the ocean of the Plane of Water. They have no edges! >True enough -- going by the basic D&D cosmology, the Elemental Planes would be completely separate from one another and have no borders. But that would be less interesting -- it eliminates the whole concept of alternate Para-Elemental Planes suggested by that Wavefire monster entry in the new Planescape book. Well, of course we need Planescape. 3;)> Nothing wrong with adding Planescape to Mystara, though you do have to re-work some of the cosmology. Not having had much exposure to Planescape myself, aside from seeing it as Manual of the Planes on steroids, I hope you don't mind if my points continue to come out of D&D Cosmology 101 (and MoP for the AD&D end of it.) Actually, reading over the D&D Rules Cyclopedia version of the Elemental Planes, I see they are vastly different from the AD&D version. And actually, I like that -- never liked walking to one end of the Plane of Water and just 'encountering' more Earth gradually. But if you map them you take out their infinite nature and their point-for-point correlation to the Prime -- where you have the Prime that is their mixture and four separate Elemental planes that represent the abundance of their element at that specific point. So, I'm against Maps for the Inner Planes. But, a small pocket plane of Steam could always exist outside the normal universe of the Prime as a result of a vortex between Fire and Water. Sort of like how a black hole can pinch off its own little universe. Then you don't have to have borders, but the conduits could connect to an intermediary plane of steam (or magma, ooze, etc.) >Use water magic. Whatever element an elemental foe is associated with, a spell caster from the Prime Material Plane has the advantage of access to the element that dominates the element in question. Knowledge and flexibility are required. Well, that will give a well-diversified spell caster an advantage over an elemental foe. But not necessarily other Prime foes, which are probably the bulk of obstacles on their way to Immortality. And it assumes the spell caster faces one element. If the spell caster faces two elements, it becomes more difficult. Plus, I would suggest it be hard for a spell caster to gain mastery over more than one element, especially at any one time. Gaining power over an element should take diligence and perserverence, a commitment on the part of the spell caster, and should not easily be conveyed from one element to another. For example, requiring a common command word of all elemental summon- ing devices. Such that, if the spell caster commanded an earth elemental to come forth, it would, but so would other elementals from other devices he owns, wherever they may be. Unless used carefully, it would create more trouble than it was worth. >But remember that this circle of dominance underlies many aspects of Mystara, not just elemental magic. By exploiting this and other Yes, the dragon-kobold-man circle... or the life-death circle... well, we see how that last one works. If it's alive, KILL it. If it's dead, HEAL it. But it falls apart there, because if it is dead, only powerful healing will work.. and if we just killed it why do we want to raise it again? And if it is undead, then healing will only make it more difficult to defeat. So, if it's dead.. sometimes HEAL it, sometimes KILL it, and sometimes GO home. 3:)> There's the yin-yang circle. The good-evil circle and the man- woman circle (or is it the woman-man circle?) There's yomi and limpurta (??) and there's the mind-body dualism of Cartesian thought. Philosophically there are lots of circles. I don't see how this really helps adventurers. The Circle of Dominance only applies to a very narrow band of cases, and even then, only a Munchkin PC could cover all of its bases. >circles that are in dynamic equilibrium, sufficiently clever adventurers can gain tremendous power and even attain Immortality. How? Yeah, this tremendous power one is the one I don't see in this. GA.. >Well remember that the Immortals have divergent interests. If you have alienated one Immortal, it is quite likely (if you are not an utter fool) that you have greatly pleased an Immortal who is hostile to him. If the other Immortal actually notices your act. >WotI has more than one case of an Immortal candidate who petitioned one Immortal, failed to satisfy his patron, and then gained Immortality under another patron. Under another patron that was an enemy of the first Immortal? Actually sounds a bit wasteful. If I were petitioning, I'd at least try the same Sphere again so all my treasures and tributes and every- thing could carry over. Of course, I'd probably only live long enough to petition more than once if I were an Elf. >These are yet more examples of >gaining power through flexibility. Yes, flexibility helps sometimes. The Bamboo philosophy. But so does resolve and rigidity. The Jade philosophy. However, in the example of petitioning an Immortal I don't really see the Circle of Dominance playing much of a role. It's basically a petty mortal that any Immortal could stomp out saying, "Well, if you don't sponsor me I'll go to your enemy." For one, he must be Chaotic. How does a Lawful PC do this? For a second, how many Immortals really want a traitor coming to them for sponsorship? This mortal will get a bad rep. Sure, if he's Chaotic enough some Immortal may eventually sponsor him, but that sounds more of an endorsement of Chaos as a lifestyle than any circular thing. >>Well, for one, if they become Immortals they leave the Prime and then are subject to the laws of any other plane. So, ultimately, it does limit them. >But in most ways Immortals are less limited than mortals -- and Old Ones are even less limited. And we are not even sure that the Old Ones are the ultimate powers -- we know too little about them to be sure. Well, limited but less limited. Yeah, they're an Immortal alright. But at that point, they're not on the Prime and so probably won't be mucking around much with petty elementals. They are dominated by the rules of the Spheres and the make-up of the Plane where they are, and seldom choose to be in a place where the elemental Circle of Dominance applies. >climate of most temperate regions in the real world: Spring gives way to Summer, Summer to Fall, Fall to Winter, Winter to Spring, and then the cycle starts all over again. If you take a short view, you would see change; if you take a slightly longer view, you would see stability; if you take an even longer view, you begin to perceive larger cycles of climactic change. Ok. >>>The standard AD&D universe has Fire opposed to Water and Air opposed to Earth. No dominance effects occur, so this arrangement is highly stable. >>Incorrect. In AD&D, Fire and Water have dominance over each other. A fire creature takes double damage from a water attack, and vice versa, as per the D&D definition of dominance. You may be confusing their oppo- sition on the "map" from AD&D with the D&D definition of "opposition" (bad reaction to each other.) But as pointed out, D&D has no map for elemental planes. >It is your idea of "dominance" that is incorrect. The dominant element has a major advantage over the element that it dominates. If the Fire and Water Elementals both take increased damage from the other, neither has a net advantage -- they just finish their fights a bit quicker. In the D&D Correct. Using the D&D definition for dominance, the effect in AD&D is Fire effectively has dominance over Water, and Water effectively has domin- ance over Fire. They finish their fights quicker and more violently negate each other. It's noted that "mutual-dominance" does not equal "opposition," which is how I took exception to your statement that Fire and Water "oppose" each other (aside from on the AD&D map.) "Opposition" implies almost certain hostile reactions between the two (-8 to Reaction roll in D&D, which on a 2-12 scale is pretty negative.) >universe, >Fire fears Water -- and in a battle between a Fire Elemental and a Water Elemental of roughly equal power, the Water Elemental will win easily. In the AD&D universe, the Fire Elemental would have a fighting chance. This difference is not a trivial one. Whoever gets the initiative last, in either game system; assuming equal strength Water Elemental and Fire Elemental. Attack rolls and damage rolls all eventually work themselves out in the average case. Suppose AD&D first, -- some equal exchange has gone on for some time now, blow for blow -- -- (we skip to the last round of battle) -- W.E wins initiative. W.E attacks. F.E dies. Water wins. -or- F.E wins initiative. F.E attacks. W.E dies. Fire wins. Now suppose D&D, W.E wins initiative. W.E attacks. F.E dies. Water wins. -or- F.E wins initiative. F.E gets the hell out of the here. Fire draws; Water wins by forfeit? No, not trivial, that is correct. >Well, I did make a different assumption. I figured that the settings for the universe that allowed the most growth had to be the original one -- otherwise, where did the Immortals/Old Ones/Powers come from? Where the Old Ones came from is anybody's guess. I think they came from Gary Gygax's dining room table, but.. 3:)> The settings needn't allow the most growth, if they allowed ANY growth you would have Immortals. The number correlating to the age of the multiverse times that growth rate. >>>Of course, that means that a third arrangement must be theoretically possible -- one in which Fire opposes Earth and Air opposes Water. >>If you are using the D&D definition of the term "opposes," there are several arrangements of that.. you have to specify dominances as well. >Not at all -- I am suggesting that the circle of dominance applies only in a universe organized like that of Mystara. If you alter the relationships among the elements, the circle is broken, and all you have left are opposition pairs. Specifying only opposition pairs (as you did with Fire opposes Earth, etc.) in the D&D sense can produce a couple different Circles of Dominance (depending on which ways you wanted the dominance to go.) For example, the standard is dom Water -> Fire -> Earth -> Air -> Water. opp Earth Air Water Fire Earth But you mention these opposition pairings (Earth/Fire and Air/Water) which produce more than one circle without a specified dominance, dom Fire -> Air -> Earth -> Water -> Fire opp Earth Water Fire Air Earth dom Fire -> Water -> Earth -> Air -> Fire opp Earth Air Fire Water Earth >Come to think of it, that idea of "breaking" the circle is another argument for the D&D arrangement being "original" -- a far stronger one than the vague speculations in regard to the Wavefire. >>I know nothing about Dark Sun, but whether you're using the AD&D Prime or the D&D Prime, its just another world in the Prime (or so I'd think, not knowing Dark Sun.) >I actually know of no game setting that explicitly uses the third possible arrangement of the elements -- but if any AD&D world does, Athas would be the most likely choice, as it differs radically from both Mystara and : >But if my suggestion does have any merit, then each of the three possible arrangements of the elements has different effects on the overall structure of the universe: >Arrangement 1 (Mystara/D&D): Circle of dominance applies, no alignment can dominate for long, world is in constant flux. Outer planes are arranged haphazardly. ie, the Outer planes arranged chaotically? World is in chaos? Sounds like an alignment is dominating alright. Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 01:40:11 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #215 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com >Arrangement 2 (standard AD&D): Cosmic stability holds sway, law and goodness are favored, and there is an unbridgeable gulf between mortals and immortals. Outer planes are arranged systematically in "Great Wheel". ie, Neutrality is the cosmic motto, and the outer planes are arranged in a balanced, very neutral manner. LG favored? When the Abyss outnumbers the Heavens by about 95:1? There is some idiosyncracies in that symetrical wheel you call LG. More of a diverse forest, very TN. Unbridgeable gulf between mortals and immortals? Don't see that. Especially in Mystara/AD&D. >Arrangement 3 (Athas?): World is in decay, chaos and evil are favored, and the outer planes and their associated Powers do not exist. Well, we don't even know if such a world exists yet. -- Stonelight *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 23:13:55 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Elemental Opposition and Dominance In a message dated 98-04-10 08:01:28 EDT, Inconu@aol.com writes: >Correct, but going by the same rules...... an Efreeti that is weak against wwater, is resistant to fire magic. Fireball, burning hands, and meteor shower just aren't the same when they only inflict half damage (quarter damage >if saving throw is made). That's how everything in D&D is. One power results in >one weakness. It is not flexible. The flexibility is for those who can handle all four elements (in other words, denizens of the Prime Material Plane). Elemental creatures such as Efreet are at a distinct disadvantage because of their lack of flexibility. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 23:13:53 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Elemental Opposition and Dominance In a message dated 98-04-10 07:35:13 EDT, Inconu@aol.com writes: >Is this from a D&D sourcebook or is this your own hypothesis? I just don't rremember reading anything like that before. Most of what I wrote is from the D&D rule sets -- the main part that I added was the hypothesis about what might be happening at the borders between the Elemental planes (which by the D&D rules would not even exist -- in those rules the four Elemental Planes each border the Ethereal Plane only). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 23:14:04 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance (was PC1 and Alfheim) In a message dated 98-04-10 15:42:07 EDT, borealis@cois.on.ca writes: >Hang on, here...the Known World just went through a seriously nasty war. NNow you want to have another one? If anyone were to consider invading the Known World from any direction, there's an important point to consider: there are a LOT of veterans of the Glantri-Alphatian war all over the place, >and they all remember how to use a sword (or spear, or bow, or whatever). The nations of the Known World would all be able to get back to battle-readiness in a hurry. In fact, I would agree that the best use of this scenario would be as an adventuring hook -- resourceful heroes could nip this entire scenario in the bud. Even though I suggested the whole scheme, I would not like to see it carried out too quickly. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 23:14:18 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing In a message dated 98-04-10 18:05:39 EDT, Inconu@aol.com writes: >Which spheres are connected to which elements? Matter: Earth Thought: Air Time: Water Energy: Fire *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 23:15:17 -0400 From: Derek Harmon Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Elemental Opposition and Dominance Inconu wrote: ><< Actually, I think you got totally carried away with the Circle of >Dominance, which was used to illustrate the effect on magic on the Elemental Planes. It is NOT a map. The Plane of Water does not border the Plane of Fire. D&D specifies no orientation of placement, the Elemental Planes mere- ly exist. You don't walk to the edge of the Plane of Fire and step into the ocean of the Plane of Water. They have no edges! >> >In AD&D there are borders from one elemental plane to the next. They aren't as drastic as stepping from the water plane into the earth plane however. That's Agreed, AD&D is quirky like that. However, in the D&D rules, there is no relationship between elemental planes that could be considered "geo- graphic," they just touch the Prime at all points, are infinite, and exist exclusively of each other (though vortices and wormholes exist.) In fact, I suggested using vortices and wormholes as connections to intermediate pocket planes, that could be of steam, magma, etc., so Kayvid doesn't have to go so far as to adopt the quirky quasi-elemental planes of AD&D. 3;D> ><the element that it is dominated by. >> >Is this from a D&D sourcebook or is this your own hypothesis? I just don't remember reading anything like that before. I know that in AD&D they offset eachother....and i don't see why they wouldn't in D&D. Earth and Air destroy Well, I didn't post that. And true, I've never seen "clogging" used in a TSR sourcebook. 3;)> But it's Kayvid's description. The Circle of Dominance that relates the effects of magic upon the elements (and only that; I disagree when we start comparing this minor D&D fixture with cycles of cosmic significance) is in the D&D_Rules_Cyclopedia, p. 264 (at least in my printing.) I also think it was in D&D Boxed Companion or Masters DM Guide. -- Stonelight *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 23:20:39 -0400 From: Derek Harmon Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing Robert Fry wrote: : >multiverse where the five Spheres are in perfect balance - and this being the reason why Mystara is responsible for so many Immortals (presumably the never ending conflict (balance) between the Spheres is to blame). >Now, admittedly this is Spheres, and not elements, but each Sphere is connected to an element... So I think this elemental discussion does have a point to it... I recall reading something to the effect of, Thought - Air Energy - Fire Time - Water Matter - Earth But then where does the Sphere of Entropy fit in. If you did try to create a circle, Entropy would probably be at its center. It wastes away the other four spheres. In a way, they must keep growing to offset that loss. However, you also have alignments correlating to Spheres. And alignments correlating to Elemental Planes (like.. Earth = chaotic evil, and Matter = Earth, but Matter = lawful; so the transitive quality does not apply.) -- Stonelight *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 21:17:36 +0000 From: "Mike Harvey" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Elemental Opposition and Dominance >But I would have to question the exact choice of primary and secondary properties -- Why is Fire primarily Dry and not Hot? Why is Earth primarily Cold and not Dry? And why is Air primarily Hot or Wet? I don't know, I just got the info out of an old Alchemy textbook in the library. However, the four element model had problems and was eventually superceded by our current physical model(s)... there are many ways to classify these things, so your guess is as good as Aristotles'. :-) Besides, maybe on Mystara things really *are* different... However, to answer your question, I have wondered the same thing, and concluded that it is all determined by the placement of "water" on the chart. Water is obviously the "wettest" of the elements, so that must be its primary attribute. Earth and water are both cold, so Air must be hot to keep the balance. Lastly, if each element is to have a different primary attribute, then Air cannot be wet, so it must be hot, and fire cannot be hot, so it must be dry. The only thing remaining is earth, which must be dry. Look at the Mystaran scheme of things, dominance is clockwise (water dominates fire, air dominates water, etc): AIR | | EARTH----METAL-----WATER | | FIRE The elements correspond to Spheres of Power: THOUGHT | | MATTER---DEATH-----TIME | | ENERGY Perhaps dominance can be seen as an orbit around the center, with death serving as a type of gravity, and the other four spheres orbiting like stars around a black hole. >From an elemental perspective, the center might be either metal or nullity, and each elements seeks to assert its own unique identity. Metal could represent a blending of the properties of each element (strong like earth, malleable like water, etc), while nullity is the opposite: an absence of all properties. This also suggests that neutrality dominates chaos, chaos dominates law, law dominates "thought," and "thought" dominates neutrality. ...whatever that means. Mike - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bing@iccom.com (formerly mike@cs.pdx.edu) Mike Harvey HTTP://www.iccom.com/usrwww/bing/home.html Beaverton, Oregon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 21:17:36 +0000 From: "Mike Harvey" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing >Which Spheres were connected to what elements? Good Question. I seem to remember that Matter was connected to Earth and Energy was connected to Fire. As for the other two I am unsure, but I think Thought was connected to Air, and Time was connected to Watter. Entropy had no elemental attachment. You got it right, according to RC p.219. Mike - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bing@iccom.com (formerly mike@cs.pdx.edu) Mike Harvey HTTP://www.iccom.com/usrwww/bing/home.html Beaverton, Oregon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 01:39:13 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elemental Opposition and Dominance (long) In a message dated 98-04-10 23:30:44 EDT, derek@ix.netcom.com writes: >Like the Immortal Spheres? As there I disagree since there isn't a circle of dominance for them (and shouldn't be.) The earlier Immortal's set did indeed have a circle of dominance among the four Spheres. WotI rightly dropped it -- while an Immortal of the Sphere of Energy is mostly of that Sphere, it could be argued that he has enough of the other Spheres in him to escape the dominance effects. >And as to 'many other things,' I'm not sure how far you want to take it. Dragons kill Kobolds. Kobolds kill Men. Men kill Dragons? That is not a good example -- a circle of dominance would require a natural advantages that form a cycle rather than a hierarchy. If we assume that dragon, kobold, and man are of "normal" level and power, the dragon would easily kill both of the other two. A better example might consist of a vampire, an archmage, and a high priest. The vampire would have the advantage over the archmage, who in turn could easily overcome the high priest, who in turn could easily turn away the vampire. These would be the expected results, but certainly not the only possible ones -- cleverness can overcome many disadvantages. >Well, of course we need Planescape. 3;)> Nothing wrong with adding Planescape to Mystara, though you do have to re-work some of the cosmology. Not having had much exposure to Planescape myself, aside from seeing it as Manual of the Planes on steroids, I hope you don't mind if my points continue to come out of D&D Cosmology 101 (and MoP for the AD&D end of it.) The problem with reworking the cosmology of Planescape is that the cosmology is central to the setting. >Well, that will give a well-diversified spell caster an advantage over an elemental foe. But not necessarily other Prime foes, which are probably the bulk of obstacles on their way to Immortality. That is true. In a typical combat encounter, one combatant is killed and the other gains experience and power. If both are intelligent, then it only matters to them and their friends who wins. If one is superior intelligence to the other, in most cases either the smarter one will win or (knowing that he won't win) avoid the fight completely. >And it assumes the spell caster faces one element. If the spell caster faces two elements, it becomes more difficult. If he is facing two elements, his best bet is probably to just get out of the way.... >Plus, I would suggest it be hard for a spell caster to gain mastery over more than one element, especially at any one time. Gaining power over an element should take diligence and perserverence, a commitment on the part of the spell caster, and should not easily be conveyed from one element >to another. Most wizards don't "master" any element -- they learn a variety of spells associated with different elements. By the time they reach level 18+, their repertoire should include at least some spells of each type. >For example, requiring a common command word of all elemental summon- ing devices. Such that, if the spell caster commanded an earth elemental to come forth, it would, but so would other elementals from other devices he owns, wherever they may be. Unless used carefully, it would create more trouble than it was worth. I am not sure where you got this one from. A common command word for all devices? Why? But if a wizard has multiple summoning devices, it would be very important for him to keep them straight. If he can do that, he will be at an advantage dealing with any elemental foe. >Philosophically there are lots of circles. I don't see how this really helps adventurers. The Circle of Dominance only applies to a very narrow band of cases, and even then, only a Munchkin PC could cover all of its bases. Guilty as charged. By the standards of low to mid level campaigns, any candidate for Immortality would have to be considered a "Munchkin". Take a typical Polymath -- just before he reaches Immortality, he may well be level 30 or so in one of the basic classes and level 12+ in the other three. >Under another patron that was an enemy of the first Immortal? Actually sounds a bit wasteful. If I were petitioning, I'd at least try the same Sphere again so all my treasures and tributes and every- thing could carry over. Of course, I'd probably only live long enough to petition more than once if I were an Elf. The most common switch seems to be to Entropy -- not an option for PCs, of course. But there is little reason to stick with the same Sphere if one has given up on a particular Immortal -- the treasures are kept by that Immortal, not by his Sphere. If you give up on him or vice versa, you really do have to start over. In one example I can find, the Immortal Kythria was a cleric of Valerias (Sphere of Matter) who tried and failed to gain Immortality with her. She eventually gained Immortality via Eiryndul (Sphere of Energy). >However, in the example >of petitioning an Immortal I don't really see the Circle of Dominance playing much of a role. It's basically a petty mortal that any Immortal could stomp out saying, "Well, if you don't sponsor me I'll go to your enemy." For one, he must be Chaotic. How does a Lawful PC do this? A mortal would be crazy to say that, regardless of alignment. Petition modifiers include "-5 if the character is haughty". But let us say that an Immortal has utterly rejected the petitioner, so the petioner goes away. He is now free to do as he pleases. >For a second, how many Immortals really want a traitor coming to them for sponsorship? This mortal will get a bad rep. Sure, if he's Chaotic enough some Immortal may eventually sponsor him, but that sounds more of an endorsement of Chaos as a lifestyle than any circular thing. Why would he be a traitor? The first Immortal has refused to sponsor him; in some cases, that may be the beginning and ending of their dealings. Besides, there is a -5 modification to his petition request because of his previous petition to a different Immortal -- so each attempt gets more difficult and more expensive. >>Arrangement 2 (standard AD&D): Cosmic stability holds sway, law and goodness are favored, and there is an unbridgeable gulf between mortals and immortals. Outer planes are arranged systematically in "Great Wheel". >ie, Neutrality is the cosmic motto, and the outer planes are arranged in a balanced, very neutral manner. LG favored? When the Abyss outnumbers the Heavens by about 95:1? There is some idiosyncracies in that symetrical wheel you call LG. More of a diverse forest, very TN. Yes, the Abyss does outnumber the Heavens -- so why is it that you are more likely to see a Paladin raiding the Abyss than a Fiend raiding the Heavens? And why do the "good guys" tend to win out in the end? (Other than TSR's standards for content, of course) Paladins and Rangers gain advantage for being Good -- they have no true counterparts on the side of Evil, certain Dragon articles notwithstanding. The case for Law is much stronger -- the arrangement of the Outer Planes in the standard AD&D multiverse can only be described as orderly. Every- thing has its place and cannot get away from it. The Powers of Chaos can make Limbo truly Chaotic -- but they cannot spread much of this Chaos into the Lawful planes. >Unbridgeable gulf between mortals and immortals? Don't see that. Especially in Mystara/AD&D. But of course I was placing Mystara outside the standard AD&D universe.... >>Arrangement 3 (Athas?): World is in decay, chaos and evil are favored, and the outer planes and their associated Powers do not exist. >Well, we don't even know if such a world exists yet. The description I gave of Athas seems to be close to accurate -- what is in dispute is whether my suggestion about its Elemental planes is correct. The "orthodox" explanation would place Athas in a remote crystal sphere on the Prime Material Plane of the standard AD&D universe -- but that does leave unanswered the question of why the Powers have no presence there, and why Athas is such a difficult place to enter or leave. Ravenloft is positively porous by comparison. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #215 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 11:08:35 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #216 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Sunday, April 12 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 216 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing Re: Re[4]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World Re: [MYSTARA] - PC1 and Alfheim Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance (was PC1 and Alfheim) Re: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing Re: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing Re: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance (was PC1 and Alfheim) Re: [MYSTARA] - Elemental Opposition and Dominance (long) Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance (was PC1 and Alfheim) Re: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 01:39:16 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing In a message dated 98-04-10 23:41:09 EDT, derek@ix.netcom.com writes: >But then where does the Sphere of Entropy fit in. If you did try to create a circle, Entropy would probably be at its center. It wastes away the other ffour spheres. In a way, they must keep growing to offset that loss. Well, in the AD&D universe Entropy would correspond to the Negative Material Plane while Integration (a plane mentioned in the first Creature Crucible, PC 1, "Tall Tales of the Wee Folk") would correspond to the Positive Material Plane. But since these two planes cannot exist at the same time, this analogy would break down. Apparently in the D&D universe at present, the Sphere of Entropy is "destructive" while the other four Spheres are "creative". Since Entropy has the power of about two of the other Spheres, the rivalry among the four Spheres keeps "creation" and "destruction" in relative balance. >However, you also have alignments correlating to Spheres. And alignments correlating to Elemental Planes (like.. Earth = chaotic evil, and Matter = Earth, but Matter = lawful; so the transitive quality does not apply.) The alignment connection seems to be much looser than the others. While there is a strong connection between Energy and Fire, for example, the connection of either with Chaos is less obvious -- after all, there do exist both creatures from the Elemental Plane of Fire and Immortals of the Sphere of Energy who are of Lawful alignment. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 02:58:42 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: Re[4]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World In a message dated 98-04-08 14:48:12 EDT, you write: << The point I was trying to make, and apparently not doing a good enough job, is that the DM can upset the balance of power if (s)he wishes to run an Ethie's conquer the world campaign. - Use BattleSystem - Use the BS mods from the Ethie Gazetteer to create mechanics for the discipline, horsemanship, and archery advantages. - Use BS Hero rules to bring in hakomans, clerics, and shamans (shamen?). The campaign becomes one of the players figuring out how to use their advantages to win the war. They should reach the point where they play their battles like the description of the attack on the mercenary force in the Gazetteer: hit and run archery tactics in open terrain and annihilation of routing units. >> Oh I agree. In my original presentation of the War Machine results, I stated that I did not agree with certain aspects of the system in regards to each army. IMO a Glantrian mounted troop would be childsplay for an Ethie cavalryman. One on one or in group combat, the lifelong riding skills of the Ethie would prevail. IMO the WM does not take into account the riding archers and their affect on combat. I also believe the Glantrian war mages are overrated. For that matter, mage warriors in general are overrated. The exception being the fighting mages of Randel (blatant plug). In overrrated, I mean that these mages are low level and have a limited spell inventory. I equate a soldier mage like an archer with but a pair or trio of arrows in his quiver. Once used up, they are done. And I do not care how good the Glantri battle mage kit is, once that mage is forced into close melee the fighter based soldier is going to prevail. Especially an Ethie on horseback matched against a Glantrian on horseback. A mage better take his target down with that first magic missile lest that target ride him down. Even if the mage slays the target, he is pretty much spent spell wise. Soldier mages are only good if utilized in massed formations and being well protected like English Longbowman. However, affording this protection takes away from the fighting force as resources are diverted to a defensive role. You need a big force to use these low level mages. Heroes are something else not really taken into account. Let us face it, a name level PC can do a great deal of damage to an approaching platoon of standard soldiers. Most PCs have the best armour and weapons they can buy or "find". Usually this arsenal is enchanted to some extent. This is even more so if you use fighter options and such. Highlevel spellcasters also are a deciding factor. IMO the mages of Glantri and Alphatia are the heavy artillery of their respective armies. They have the spell inventories and xp level to do some significant damage to an enemy rank and file. Clerics are also neat to have. Not only do they offer an offensive capability, they also can aid in picking up the peices after combat using their healing abilities. This factor should also be factor into the recovery time f or a victorious or defeated force. For Randel, I took several of the above statements to heart and compensated for them in the Randel Armed Forces. Randel is a war camp so it is understandable if their mages will and can go toe to toe with a fighter. It is also feasible for medical troops to be present. These are not clerics, but commoners with training in healing skills. Herbs, salves, bandages, and such are their tools. And being of Randel, they are armed and armoured affording their own protection as well as an offensive capability if needed. These corpsmen roughly equal the number of sergeants which have a 1:10 ratio with the troops. This is another item I addressed. Leadership. The Randel forces have a heavy proportion of officers and NCOs. Beginning to ramble...... Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 04:01:11 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World In a message dated 98-04-08 13:50:22 EDT, you write: << all this discussion of war machine stats and suchlike is interesting, but in the end it just tells me what I already knew ... either side could kick the other one's ass on their home turf. This makes sense because if either DID have the ability to smash the enemy and conquer their land, they would have done so. The fact that there is a stalemate in hypothetical military scenarios fits well with the fact that there is a political stalemate in the current setting. It would seem that a decisive resolution to the Glantri-Ethengar "cold war" in either direction would require powerful allies ... not likely to happen unless something very big happened, like the Huleans conquering Darokin, which would upset the general balance of power. As it stands, all the math you guys have gone through sounds just about right ... neither side can win outright so both have to look to provoke the other into screwing up. Geez Mathew. Do you think you could be a bit clear and put it in easier to comprehend terms. :-) But I agree. The stalemate is there. This is good because it explain why the Ethie and Glantrians have been in their hate you hate me predicament for so long without conquering the other. It is a simple plot device of neither side willing or able to initiate an viable offensive, yet each capable of a formidable defense. This opens up the door for subversive and political scenarios to achieve victory. Hating a nation for hundreds of years is bound to spawn some neat little plots. Like JKhan's scenario of the proposed traitors. I like this one. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 04:14:25 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - PC1 and Alfheim In a message dated 98-04-09 14:46:57 EDT, JKhan writes: <> Yep too much power from a single artifact attachd to a warbird. The one good thing is that the simple removal of this artfact is enought to make it plummet downward and smash to splinters. (Princess Ark and CoM). Hah hah hah.... <> I thought they were used but held in a degree of suspicion. IIRC the head hakomon guy (the one with the fly spell made permanent) is seen as a dark and even evil entity despite being a good guy. IIRC he also promotes this personna. <> IIRC the Great Khan is more knowledgable to them and their uses thn the more superstitious populace. The Golden Khan is not the problem, the populace is. Any skships would have to be presented as being created by a friendly source such as clerics. If not, subservant sects opposed to Moglai Khan would use it against him, playing on superstition and prejudices against mages. Plus, I'd like to see a clerically created skyship. And one different from the Heldannic WarBirds which are powered by artifacts. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 04:27:14 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance (was PC1 and Alfheim) In a message dated 98-04-09 21:25:11 EDT, you write: << One point I omitted from my previous proposal -- Thyatis actually should be a direct victim of this alliance. Selenica is too small a prize for Ylaruam to be satisfied with, and the Heldannic Knights will want a conquest of their own. A natural possibility would be for Ylaruam to invade northern Thyatis as the Heldannic Knights support the Hattians in a revolt against Thyatian authority. They are unlikely to win in the end, but they will definitely spread a great deal of chaos and destruction into Thyatis. >> This could work, especially if the Thyatian Cohorts are occupied elsewhere. Gee, I wonder what they could be doing to draw such large numbers away from the mainland...... Let us say that the Ylari are told via divine inspiration that the defeated faction must not be oblitterated. IIRC AlKalim plays the two factions against each other, favoring one depending on the situation and the nation's needs. He does make means for the defeated faction to survive. Now given the events in the Almanacs, the isolationist faction wins and the open door policy faction loses. The open doorers will have to survive. Why not have AlKalim use Selenica for this since it is greatly influenced by Ylari culture. Plus wedging Selenica between the Shadow Elves and traditionalists ruled Ylaruam would isolate the refugees. The Knights could go to war with just about anyone. I'd like to see them team up with Rockhome and Ethengar and go after Glantri. The Ethie and Rockhome griefs are obvious. The Knights could turn against their former allies for several reasons. 1)The Great War over, the Knights do not need them anymore. 2) The Knights wish to regain Vanya's favor via conquest. 3) Glantri and clerics policies. 4) Nothing Else to do. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 09:03:29 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing At 01:39 AM 4/11/98 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 98-04-10 23:41:09 EDT, derek@ix.netcom.com writes: The alignment connection seems to be much looser than the others. While there is a strong connection between Energy and Fire, for example, the connection of either with Chaos is less obvious -- after all, there do exist both creatures from the Elemental Plane of Fire and Immortals of the Sphere of Energy who are of Lawful alignment. It is the element itself that is chaotic. Think about it. A flame soon becomes a rampaging fire if left to itself. Matter on the other hand is often immutable. It does not change. It is lawful. This does not mean that all Immortals and creatures will be of those alignments. But those alignments are strengthened by the relationship of the element to the sphere... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 09:45:55 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing << Which Spheres were connected to what elements? Good Question. I seem to remember that Matter was connected to Earth and Energy was connected to Fire. As for the other two I am unsure, but I think Thought was connected to Air, and Time was connected to Watter. Entropy had no elemental attachment. >> Could Entropy possibly been connected to the Negative Material Plane>? - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 16:12:21 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing On Sat, 11 Apr 1998, Inconu wrote: ><< >Which Spheres were connected to what elements? Good Question. I seem to remember that Matter was connected to Earth and Energy was connected to Fire. Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 11:08:35 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #216 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com >As for the other two I am unsure, but I think Thought was connected to Air, and Time was connected to Watter. Entropy had no elemental attachment. >> >Could Entropy possibly been connected to the Negative Material Plane>? Yes. I think Kavyid mentioned this. If you use Mystara with the Planescape/AD&D multiverse it would be likely to assume that Entropy is connected with the Plane of Negative Energy. If you are to use Mystara with the Mystara Multiverse there is no Plane of Negative Energy. However Limbo could fill that role. I dont think Limbo has much in common with the elemental planes though. Anyway, I think this thread generally presupposes that Mystara exists in a multiverse which is different from tha AD&D one. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 15:21:41 -0400 From: "DJ Sahlas" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance (was PC1 and Alfheim) On April 09, 1998, Kaviyd wrote: >Then the Alliance strikes. The Master takes over western Darokin, Ylaruam takes Selenica, and the Shadow Elves and the goblinoids lay waste to the middle section of Darokin. Meanwhile, Ethengar invades the Northern Reaches and/or Glantri, and the Heldanners use their airships to provide support wherever they are needed. You know, this is almost exactly what happened when I ran X10. The Master made major inroads into Darokin, capturing Akorros, while harrying Glantri from the south. Ylaruam focused on Selenica (but getting through the pass was tough with the sudden mobilization of the Cynidiceans) while hitting the Northern Reaches and Rockhome. Ethengar swept upon Glantri while they were occupied in the south, and likewise the Northern Reaches, making major gains. Just goes to show what a fun campaign that is. The Known World was organized in such a manner that it usually dropped the gloves and went at it in very predictable ways. I agree that the best way to break the mold is to have the bad guys actually win. Then, you have a really interesting situation in which the victors consolidate their gains, and then (after a few years) start to eye each other warily. Having Ethengar go against the Master in a world in which resistance groups are gaining power all across the occupied territories is definitely a setting rife with adventure. Incidentally, I always prefer to consider the Great War of the Master as actually occuring in AC 1200. I dislike the "second fiddle" contribution the Master makes to the Wrath of the Immortals. In fact, there is no reason not to have the Master play a small role in WotI, and then bide his time a couple of centuries for the Great War to occur. For this reason, using the info in X10 to detail the Master's military strikes is fine, but the actual adventure in which he is defeated should be kept for the future. Otherwise there's just too much happening in WotI. Jim Sahlas *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 17:48:36 -0400 From: Derek Harmon Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elemental Opposition and Dominance (long) Kaviyd wrote: >In a message dated 98-04-10 23:30:44 EDT, derek@ix.netcom.com writes: : : >>And it assumes the spell caster faces one element. If the spell caster faces two elements, it becomes more difficult. >If he is facing two elements, his best bet is probably to just get out of the way.... Well, he's not going to gain much power doing that. Much less if he is confronted by all four elements. ie, if he is confronted by one of your other elemental polyglots. Which is why, >>Plus, I would suggest it be hard for a spell caster to gain mastery over more than one element, especially at any one time. Gaining power over : : >Most wizards don't "master" any element -- they learn a variety of spells associated with different elements. By the time they reach level 18+, their repertoire should include at least some spells of each type. Burning hands may allow a spell caster to have elemental fire repre- sented in his repertoire, but its hardly comparable to his more general-purpose attack spells against foes of water. And as I would advance, typical spell casters shouldn't be able to achieve advancest status in more than one element which is why I dreamed up, >>For example, requiring a common command word of all elemental summon- ing devices. Such that, if the spell caster commanded an earth elemental to come forth, it would, but so would other elementals from other devices he owns, wherever they may be. Unless used carefully, it would create more trouble than it was worth. >I am not sure where you got this one from. A common command word for (I made it up.) >all devices? Why? (To curse any wizard trying to gain control over elements that oppose or dominate the other elements he has control over.) >But if a wizard has multiple summoning devices, it would >be very important for him to keep them straight. If he can do that, he will be >at an advantage dealing with any elemental foe. But it should be inherently difficult to keep them straight. The elemental powers contained within are in conflict with the elemental powers of other devices on his person or in the same room. Perhaps bringing a water elemental device within line of sight of a fire elemental device could trigger it to create a water elemental to dominate the powerful magical item of elemental fire (and anyone possessing it) in the vicinity. If the elements truly dominate each other, I can think of no reason a spellcaster can put both devices in his same belt pouch without something bad happening; much less use them in the same battle. Acquiring powerful spells of specific elements should only be possible by questing to obtain them. Efreeti would see to it items of water / frost magic are destroyed, so if the spell caster journeys to the City of Brass to get them, he may return home with some fine collectables saving them from the fire pits -- but only if he can defeat the Efreeti without such substantial abilities. If a PC has fireball, flame shield and wall of flame; maybe he or she should have a bit of a problem getting ice storm? All of his friends and tutors have a distinct fire bias, he only finds scrolls that are largely fire oriented, he wants to go to the elemental plane of fire to track down water spells, but can't take the heat. This is all to say, a PC shouldn't be able to gain mastery in multiple elements. You place no limits on such mastery (other than to say, it doesn't happen.) Why not? In the scheme of things you presented, it looks like having the choice of the elements is the stepping stone to Immortality. PCs would then certainly try to attain mastery in all four elements. Obviously, there are lots of other things necessary to overcome (like the majority of monsters that are not elementals,) hence said Circle of Domi- nance would not promote Immortality on Mystara/D&D. >candidate for Immortality would have to be considered a "Munchkin". Take a typical Polymath -- just before he reaches Immortality, he may well be level 30 or so in one of the basic classes and level 12+ in the other three. Now that the Polymath is on the verge of ascending, what's he care about the Circle of Dominance? After he becomes an Immortal, it doesn't apply to him anymore (unless you apply it to Spheres, which it doesn't fit well with -- Especially if you consider alignments.) Neither was it so significant when he was level 30 and level 11 everywhere else. Nor, do I think, this Polymath faces a disproportionate number of elementals or even elemental rulers; as compared to undead, hundreds of humanoids, dragons of gem and hue, and other Polymaths. >>could stomp out saying, "Well, if you don't sponsor me I'll go to your enemy." For one, he must be Chaotic. How does a Lawful PC do this? >A mortal would be crazy to say that, regardless of alignment. Petition modifiers include "-5 if the character is haughty". Well, he would get stomped out saying it aloud, yes.. 3:D> But even if the PC thinks something like, "If I don't make it here, I can go to another Immortal later," his lack of devotion should suggest to the Patron not to waste his time. Such promiscuous mortals are likely to get that bad rep. >>For a second, how many Immortals really want a traitor coming to them for sponsorship? This mortal will get a bad rep. Sure, if he's Chaotic : : >Why would he be a traitor? The first Immortal has refused to sponsor him; in some cases, that may be the beginning and ending of their dealings. Besides, there is a -5 modification to his petition request because of his previous petition to a different Immortal -- so each attempt gets more difficult and more expensive. Ok, the -5 makes sense. It also suggests that petitioning the Immortal enemy of your first hope at sponsorship is a Bad Idea. So if seeking an Immortal's enemy is supposed to represent some cycle, it's a dead-spiral one. >>>Arrangement 2 (standard AD&D): Cosmic stability holds sway, law and : : : >>ie, Neutrality is the cosmic motto, and the outer planes are arranged in a balanced, very neutral manner. LG favored? When the Abyss outnumbers the Heavens by about 95:1? There is some idiosyncracies in that symetrical wheel you call LG. More of a diverse forest, very TN. >Yes, the Abyss does outnumber the Heavens -- so why is it that you are more likely to see a Paladin raiding the Abyss than a Fiend raiding the Heavens? And why do the "good guys" tend to win out in the end? (Other than TSR's standards for content, of course) Paladins and Rangers I don't know why more Fiends don't raid the Heavens, I don't suppose I ever noticed that Paladins outnumbered Fiends. As for why the "good guys" tend win out in the end -- Bingo, TSR Content, you got it. 3:D> >gain advantage for being Good -- they have no true counterparts on the side of Evil, certain Dragon articles notwithstanding. They used to have the Assassin, but.. bingo. You're right, you won't find a chaotic evil class in the books.. bingo. They wrote the books of course.. bingo. 3;)> Now if you look around elsewhere, you will see evil. I don't tend towards it myself in my campaigns, I like a good ending, but its because, under the assault of censored.. bingo, it's the game material we've been showered with. >The case for Law is much stronger -- the arrangement of the Outer Planes in the standard AD&D multiverse can only be described as orderly. Every- thing has its place and cannot get away from it. The Powers of Chaos can make Limbo truly Chaotic -- but they cannot spread much of this Chaos into the Lawful planes. Neither can the Modrons of Nirvana spread order into Limbo. So, Chaos can't spread and Law can't spread, what's the point? 3:)> Sounds Neutral to me. Plus, look at it, a Wheel. No corners, no intersections, no beginning or end, over the entirety of it, no more law than chaos or chaos than law. Parts of it have taken a certain naturalistic look, growing to twisted lengths like a fern. If it represented Law, it could certainly be MORE orderly. So it can't possibly epitomize such a classification. -- Stonelight *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 18:30:06 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance (was PC1 and Alfheim) << Hang on, here...the Known World just went through a seriously nasty war. Now you want to have another one? If anyone were to consider invading the Known World from any direction, there's an important point to consider: there are a LOT of veterans of the Glantri-Alphatian war all over the place, and they all remember how to use a sword (or spear, or bow, or whatever). The nations of the Known World would all be able to get back to battle-readiness in a hurry. Glen >> Well spoken! No, I don't think that I want another war right now, at least not MWII. And the matter of Ethengar: We should find more steppes to conquer first, and an easy way to these steppes, of course. When we have a Great Khan, wo can send some ten mingams here and some ten mingams there we can talk about this another time. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 11:07:55 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing << Well, in the AD&D universe Entropy would correspond to the Negative Material Plane while Integration (a plane mentioned in the first Creature Crucible, PC 1, "Tall Tales of the Wee Folk") would correspond to the Positive Material Plane. But since these two planes cannot exist at the same time, this analogy would break down. Apparently in the D&D universe at present, the Sphere of Entropy is "destructive" while the other four Spheres are "creative". Since Entropy has the power of about two of the other Spheres, the rivalry among the four Spheres keeps "creation" and "destruction" in relative balance. >> Only to remind all without PC1: When the sphere of integration existed, there were FOUR destructive spheres, Energy, Thought, Time and Matter. Of course these were not the same as nowadays as these four melted together to Entropy while Integration splitted to four new. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #216 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, April 13 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 217 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing Re: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Mystaras (was:- This elemental thing) Re: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Mystaras (was:- This elemental thing) Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance (was PC1 and Alfheim) Re: [MYSTARA] - Darokin [MYSTARA] - Karameikan School of Magecraft - Update Re: Re[4]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Elemental Opposition and Dominance [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Mystaras (was:- This elemental thing) [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Skills and Powers Re: Re[4]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World Re: Re[4]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 11:07:56 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing << Could Entropy possibly been connected to the Negative Material Plane>? -Inconu >> Probably not, as we have no Negative Material Plane in D&D, but in the hundreds of parallel Mystaras which depend on AD&D this might be true. BTW, how many Mystaras depend on D&D and how many on AD&D? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 17:38:37 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing On Sun, 12 Apr 1998, JamugaKhan wrote: >Only to remind all without PC1: >When the sphere of integration existed, there were FOUR destructive spheres, Energy, Thought, Time and Matter. Of course these were not the same as nowadays as these four melted together to Entropy while Integration splitted to four new. Ofcourse there are thise who claim that Orrylhoe(spl?), the Centaur sage, is either a fool or a liar. In which case the validity of the above should be reconsidered. Just wanted to point that out. Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 17:51:23 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Mystaras (was:- This elemental thing) On Sun, 12 Apr 1998, JamugaKhan wrote: >BTW, how many Mystaras depend on D&D and how many on AD&D? There are probably as many Mystaras as there are players. However, there is a sort of a problem with AD&D. There is that notion that the rules and the settings are not entirely separate. If you use AD&D, does that mean that you have to have outer planes and all that stuff? Since Mystara is the only world (with a few shortlived exceptions) that has ever been created for OD&D, I think it is reasonable to assume that any setting information found in the D&D rules should be regarded as information about Mystara. I'm not saying that you can't have your own Mystaras where Mystara exists within the Spelljammer or Planescape settings or other things. In fact I think Gamemasters should mess around with thei settings to make them more interesting. But that has to be a conscious choice. The core Mystara is the one described in the D&D products. Even that Mystara has lots of contradictions because no one person was ever in charge of the setting. I think its interesting to discuss both what I consider the Core Mystara Setting and all the various modified settings. Various ways of linking mystara to AD&D settings, or other fantasy and even science fiction settings. My own Mystara uses the GURPS rules and that has had some minor effects on the setting. Also, Ive included some new creatures and changed some of the standard creatures in order to make them more unique. I'm very interested in hearing more about other alternative Mystaras. As you see, I've written a lot of stuff here, maybe without much sense in it, a clear indication that I am bored :P Cheers, Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 13:54:34 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing In a message dated 98-04-12 11:56:45 EDT, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no writes: >Ofcourse there are thise who claim that Orrylhoe(spl?), the Centaur sage, iis either a fool or a liar. In which case the validity of the above should be reconsidered. Just wanted to point that out. The very citation in which this description is given has a Cleric who is hearing it describe it as "heresy". Of course, in any game world where there is no clearly dominant faith, it would seem that "heresy" would be a difficult concept to define. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 16:19:23 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Mystaras (was:- This elemental thing) << I'm very interested in hearing more about other alternative Mystaras >> In my Mystara, I've meddled a lot with the timeline. In most nations, the timeline reset at zero around the year 964. The known world has kept their timeline the same though. Brun and Davania weren't given names until around 970, and Skothar was also given the name around 970 but had previously been named "The Crypt" since approximately the year 600. The three current names of the continents were named after individual heroes around the 930's - 960's. I've integrated much AD&D to the world, including Planescape and Ravenloft. I've integrated a few original worlds as well. Emerondia which is the home world to the Emerondians (green-skinned race on Davania) which were canon, but never detailed. My own interpetation of the Nightmare Dimension which has several ties to Mystara. Also, another original world which ties in with Emerondia and the reason why some Emerondians settled on Mystara. I haven't done much with the outer planes, and i'm not sure i really want them in my campaigns. I do like the idea of the astral plane however, so I've been trying to come up with alternative uses of the astral plane rather than just being a conduit to the outer planes. I've integrated the Thunder Rift north of the Known World, and The Council of Wyrms chain of islands at an undiscoverd location on Mystara. Also, i took the AD&D idea of the Necromantic Islands (either in the Wizard's book or the Necromancers handbook) and relocated that on Mystara as well. Also, i created a few immortals, one which has created a chain of Islands on Mystara which much resembles the Hollow World due to the rare creatures found there, but it's only been preserving races for about one hundred years. On an earlier post (probably only about 2 weeks ago) I mentioned the adaption of the Skills and Powers books to define the different races and sections within the races much more clearly. Plus the mapping out of Skothar and Davania in detail which i hope to one day try and scan them to put them on the net somewhere. A few original creatures and creatures described in books, and some new classes (Dark Paladin) and other than that, it's just like any other Mystara. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 12:20:52 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance (was PC1 and Alfheim) At 14.11 10/04/98 EDT, JamugaKhan wrote: >Some other questions: How should this idea be used? Should it be described in forthcoming Mystara Almanacs? Do a majority of Mystara lovers accept such a dramatic change? And how many (Mystaran) years are necessary? Unfortunately I doubt this interesting scenario will be included in forthcoming Mystaran Net-Almanacs, at least not in the close future. Why this? Because some events described in 1015 Net-Almanac clearly prevent Ethengar from attacking anyone in the near future. I'm sorry :) - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 12:22:22 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Darokin At 09.20 11/04/98 EST, Shawn Stanley wrote: >The Great Reckoning was meant to be held in AC 1013 - it was another one of those things that Joshuan never got around to mentioning, go fig. Yes, it's on Darokin GAZ. I found that out just after sending my message to the MML. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 20:10:25 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: [MYSTARA] - Karameikan School of Magecraft - Update Thanks to our own Lillie My, the School now is home to Ilya Borisnhew, Traladaran magic and new spells. Check them out. The address is below. Very nice work! - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 23:29:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: Re[4]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World Alex295 pontificated: >I also believe the Glantrian war mages are overrated. For that matter, mage warriors in general are overrated. The exception being the fighting mages of Randel (blatant plug). >In overrrated, I mean that these mages are low level and have a limited spell inventory. I equate a soldier mage like an archer with but a pair or trio of arrows in his quiver. Once used up, they are done. And I do not care how good the Glantri battle mage kit is, once that mage is forced into close melee the fighter based soldier is going to prevail. Especially an Ethie on horseback matched against a Glantrian on horseback. A mage better take his target down with that first magic missile lest that target ride him down. Even if the mage slays the target, he is pretty much spent spell wise. But if one of their arrow always hit its target, they would be pretty tough one-on-one. A sleep spell could taking down even more than one target. The way I see it, if Glantri can keep the battle at even number, they will be pretty effective. But if the opposition out numbers them by a good deal, they will get overran more easily than regular troops. - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 23:33:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Elemental Opposition and Dominance Mike Harvey pontificated: >THOUGHT >| >| >MATTER---DEATH-----TIME >| >| >ENERGY >>From an elemental perspective, the center might be either metal or nnullity, and each elements seeks to assert its own unique identity. Metal could represent a blending of the properties of each element (strong like earth, malleable like water, etc), while nullity is the opposite: an absence of all properties. Taking a page out of Ultima, the center could be prime, as it is a balance of all 4 sphere, while entropy is drawn as a circle outside, not touching any of the 4. - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 00:37:13 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Mystaras (was:- This elemental thing) In a message dated 98-04-12 16:42:10 EDT, Inconu@aol.com writes: >On an earlier post (probably only about 2 weeks ago) I mentioned the adaption >of the Skills and Powers books to define the different races and sections within the races much more clearly. I would definitely be inclined to set up Mystaran classes in accordance with the "basic" rather than the "optional" classes. But I have foun one group that should definitely use Skills and Powers -- the Rogue group. The Thief class would be the basic type, while the Rake and Bard classes from _Dawn of the Emperors_ and the _Princess Ark_ series should be Player's Option variants of the standard Thief class. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 06:55:32 EDT From: Inconu Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Skills and Powers << I would definitely be inclined to set up Mystaran classes in accordance with the "basic" rather than the "optional" classes. But I have foun one group that should definitely use Skills and Powers -- the Rogue group. The Thief class would be the basic type, while the Rake and Bard classes from _Dawn of the Emperors_ and the _Princess Ark_ series should be Player's Option variants of the standard Thief class. >> Have you come up with a point system on the Rake and Bard classes yet? The thief and bard sections in S&P are from page 51 - page 56. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 09:04:04 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: Re[4]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World In a message dated 98-04-12 23:48:16 EDT, you write: << But if one of their arrow always hit its target, they would be pretty tough one-on-one. A sleep spell could taking down even more than one target. The way I see it, if Glantri can keep the battle at even number, they will be pretty effective. But if the opposition out numbers them by a good deal, they will get overran more easily than regular troops. >> Good point. But what about range? For example, A Sleep Spell has a range of 30yards (ad&d). This is well within the range of a Ethie bowman. Or should I say bowmen, since the Ethie utilize mass formation tactics so as to bring a heavy impact damage upon an opponent. Considering the spellcasting could be disrupted and the spell lost due to a hit, the spell inventory is further lessened. A Ethie warrior can go into battle with a score of arrows in his quiver. He can stand off at a range beyond that of Sleep Spells. Even a Magic Missile is only 60yards+10yards per level (ad&d). And a Magic Missile does only 1d4+1 points of damage. This loss of HP can be absorbed by a Warrior. At leasy it can be absorbed alot easier by him than a mage can take an arrow hit. And the warrior does not lose the ability to draw the string if he is hit while in that very process. Also, arrows can be reused if not damaged, and do not require time to rememorize. The Ethie warriors are also fighters which have a greater chance of making a Save vs. Spell and avoiding the enchantment. And lest I forget that the Ethie can fire on the run....er gallop whereas mages cannot. IIRC the Glantri mages are mounted but have to bring their mounts to a standstill to cast a spell. As a side note, you have to think about initiative. IMC I have Glantrian mages at a disadvantage in casting time. This is from the Glantrian tendancy to cast spells with elaborate motions and added affect (prettier spells). No nonsense mages from Alphatia and Thyatis (for example) would have a field day as they snap off spells while the Glantrians emphasize form over function. Linking this to the Ethie, it would be safe to say that an Ethie bowman could beat a mage to the draw (so to speak) if the warrior has placed himself within range of the caster. While the mage is doing his motions and encantations, the Ethie has drawn his arrow, knocked it, drawn its string and let it fly. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 18:27:10 +0100 From: "alistairhall" Subject: Re: Re[4]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World >As a side note, you have to think about initiative. IMC I have Glantrian mages >at a disadvantage in casting time. This is from the Glantrian tendancy to cast >spells with elaborate motions and added affect (prettier spells). No nonsense >mages from Alphatia and Thyatis (for example) would have a field day as they >snap off spells while the Glantrians emphasize form over function. Linking this to the Ethie, it would be safe to say that an Ethie bowman could >beat a mage to the draw (so to speak) if the warrior has placed himself within >range of the caster. While the mage is doing his motions and encantations, the >Ethie has drawn his arrow, knocked it, drawn its string and let it fly. i feel i must correct you on two points here. firstly glantrian military mages would not emphasize form over function as this would defeat the purpose of having mages in your army,by making them too slow to utilize effectly. whilst your average mage might be this ostentatious in glantri, jagger von drachenfels is not and would not allow any military mage serving under him to be so. secondly i believe that military mages would be made to learn the speed casting skill to increase thee chances of them getting their spells of in a battle situation, and lessen the chances for disruption. this imo would make sound military sense. i also think that a battle on the steps could easily go the glantrians way.if they employed some wll placed fire spells and some wind spells they could torch the ethie dogs. ialso think that with the number of mages of ethie descent that are in the army, the glantrians would have an inside view on the ethies battle tactics. one of the most commonly known military tenets is "know your enemy" so i see the glantrians as having a military advantage. jobo *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #217 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 12:35:52 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #218 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Tuesday, April 14 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 218 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: Re[4]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World Re: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance (was PC1 and Alfheim) Re: [MYSTARA] - Commentary on the 'Obsolecence' of the Gazatteers Re: Re[4]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World [MYSTARA] - Air Machine Rules [MYSTARA] - Working on a Web Page Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance (was PC1 and Alfheim) Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance (was PC1 and Alfheim) Re: Re[4]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World Re: Re[4]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance (was PC1 and Alfheim) Re:[MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 10:37:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: Re[4]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World You guys raise some interesting points re: the comparative tactical strength of Ethengarian and Glantrian forces. However it seems to me that you are missing some key points about larger strategic and operational factors. The very nature of the terrain and of the opposing forces guarantees that the two armies should not meet in a single mass combat ... the mounted archers of Ethengar are skirmishers who should be easily dispersed by massed long range artillery (the Glantrians must at least have very advanced trebuchets and catapults, leaving aside long-range combat spells) ... they can't charge and overrun formations like heavy cavalry, so their usefulness is basically dependent on their mobility and they cannot win in sustained toe-to-toe fighting. The Glantrians, on the other hand, have no way of keeping up with the maneuver speed of the Ethengarian units, and thus no real way of forcing the enemy to engage ... UNLESS they use systematic patrolling, which means they have to figure out a way to protect their scout patrols from being massacred. This would mean that they would need to have experienced trackers native to the plains ... most likely goblinoids, or a disloyal Ethengar clan; they would also have to have powerful magic to defend such trackers. IMHO the really important effects of magic on combat come not from the massed low-level mages discussed in the Glantri war machine write up (i can't imagine that system working at all, actually) but from high-level mages strategically placed to support masses of ordinary fighters. It only takes one 7th level mage to cast massmorph on a unit, which can be composed entirely of fighters otherwise (although of course this particular spell would not be all that appropriate on the plains). Anyway, think about what the Glantrian objective would be: force the Ethengarians to engage in sustained combat so they can get ground up by massed artillery, and destroy the Ethengarian ability to wage war by any means necessary. The Glantrians are not nice people, and they are not particularly concerned with honorable rules of engagement; I think the first thing they would do would be to use scrying spells to find the location of Ethengarian camps (especially while the warriors were away to the war), teleport in with as many elite troops as possible, and butcher every woman and child in sight in the most ghastly way possible. They would use deceit, treachery, bribery, false promises, magically engineered plagues, monsters, undead, goblinoid auxiliaries, they would attempt to decimate the food herds, they would stop at nothing to undermine the Ethengarian "threat". The Ethengarians, of course, would have to be expecting this, and would assign their Hakomons the job of defending the camps from scrying, of blasting any Glantrians who appeared ... shamans would also call upon spirit powers to destroy any invaders, and most especially would supernaturally increase the strength of the horse warriors (there are some interesting new spells in Spells & Magic that could be useful), who would immediately gather the horde and outmaneuver any regular Glantrian units, destroying baggage trains, raiding garrisons, slaughtering patrols, and moving the horde towards the border, where they would gather together and burn to the ground everything in their path, from Skullhorn Pass to the spires of Braejr. Then they would move from place to place seeking out the towers of noble Glantrians (especially Flaemish ones) and flaying their family members alive. Any direct meetings of 1st level magic users vs. 1st level horse warriors would be more or less incidental; what would really decide the war would be strategic maneuvering and the ability to stomach these kinds of losses. on the other hand, all of this would be very different, of course, if other countries intervened ... say Heldann, or Rockhome. but that's another issue. m@2 "You're not really in love with yourself - you're just in love with the idea of being in love with yourself" - said to me by one of the two little fellas who hang out on either of my shoulders ... I can't remember which ... On Mon, 13 Apr 1998, Alex295 wrote: >In a message dated 98-04-12 23:48:16 EDT, you write: ><< But if one of their arrow always hit its target, they would be pretty ttough one-on-one. A sleep spell could taking down even more than one target. The way I see it, if Glantri can keep the battle at even number, they will be pretty effective. But if the opposition out numbers them by a good deal, they will get overran more easily than regular troops. >> >Good point. But what about range? For example, A Sleep Spell has a range of 30yards (ad&d). This is well within the range of a Ethie bowman. Or should I say bowmen, since the Ethie utilize mass formation tactics so as to bring a heavy impact damage upon an opponent. Considering the spellcasting could be disrupted and the spell lost due to a hit, the spell inventory is further lessened. >A Ethie warrior can go into battle with a score of arrows in his quiver. He can stand off at a range beyond that of Sleep Spells. Even a Magic Missile is only 60yards+10yards per level (ad&d). And a Magic Missile does only 1d4+1 points of damage. This loss of HP can be absorbed by a Warrior. At leasy it can be absorbed alot easier by him than a mage can take an arrow hit. And the warrior does not lose the ability to draw the string if he is hit while in that very process. >Also, arrows can be reused if not damaged, and do not require time to rememorize. The Ethie warriors are also fighters which have a greater chance of making a Save vs. Spell and avoiding the enchantment. And lest I forget that the Ethie can fire on the run....er gallop whereas mages cannot. IIRC the Glantri mages are mounted but have to bring their mounts to a standstill to cast a spell. >As a side note, you have to think about initiative. IMC I have Glantrian mages at a disadvantage in casting time. This is from the Glantrian tendancy to cast spells with elaborate motions and added affect (prettier spells). No nonsense mages from Alphatia and Thyatis (for example) would have a field day as they snap off spells while the Glantrians emphasize form over function. Linking this to the Ethie, it would be safe to say that an Ethie bowman could beat a mage to the draw (so to speak) if the warrior has placed himself within range of the caster. While the mage is doing his motions and encantations, the Ethie has drawn his arrow, knocked it, drawn its string and let it fly. >Alex >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 15:57:06 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing << Ofcourse there are thise who claim that Orrylhoe(spl?), the Centaur sage, is either a fool or a liar. In which case the validity of the above should be reconsidered. Just wanted to point that out. Håvard >> Could you explain your opinion? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 21:25:38 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance (was PC1 and Alfheim) Glen said: >Hang on, here...the Known World just went through a seriously nasty war. Now you want to have another one? If anyone were to consider invading the Known World from any direction, there's an important point to consider: there are a LOT of veterans of the Glantri-Alphatian war all over the place, and they all remember how to use a sword (or spear, or bow, or whatever). The nations of the Known World would all be able to get back to battle-readiness in a hurry. I'd have to agree with Glen here. The KW has undergone enough turmoil with WotI - the last thing it needs is another battle of epic proportions. I'm not saying that conflict will disappear in future issues of the Almanac, but I really don't think that something this big should happen right now. Future events will have enough going on to interest everyone - trust me! :-) Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 21:34:38 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Commentary on the 'Obsolecence' of the Gazatteers Jenni said: >In my opinion, when it comes to RPG's there is no such thing as 'outdated' or 'obsolete' accessories. Every campaign is different, especially in how diffferent resources are used or strung together. As a result, nothing is unusable to a DM. Even if they don't want to use it as it stands, it is still an excellent basis from which to expand a campaign. My Mystara has elements from AD&D modules embeded in it, and even pure fiction created from my own imagination. Anything I can get my hands on about Mystara helps to fuel the creativitiy in me to develop my campaign however I see fit. Well said! I, for one, still have my campaign set in 1000 AC as well, and I'm not even sure if it will go along the path of WotI yet. That said, and like many others have said, WotI is still a good buy - if only for the info on Immortals that basically cannot be had anywhere else. Jenni said: >Now, in *no* way am I trying to suggest that those of you out there WITH the Wrath and Post-Wrath stuff stop doing development! Heaven's no! I'm just pointing out that there are at least some of us (well, at least one -- me) who are far more interested in the Gazetteer era than anything else. And boy do I think it is neat to see more net-developments set in that era, such as new ideas about areas left undeveloped by TSR, home-brew modules set in that time period, etc. There are lots of things that can still be done for the Gazetteer era. I agree with you wholly. In fact, the info on various countries and NPCs introduced can still be used in AC 1000-era campaigns (I'm referring to the Almanacs), and their compiled data on each of the nations alone is worth the cost of buying them, or downloading the ones we made. But I agree with you on the matter of writing material set in the Gaz era, as no other time period is quite as detailled as this one is. In fact, the vast majority of the stuff I write to the MML and post on sites is set in the Gaz era (such as Varellya and Littonia - though later dates are given for those interested), simply because that's what I use. Jenni said: >PS: On a slightly related note, I have a Module I wrote set in AC1000 Darokin, based on one of the adventure ideas in that Gaz. I plan to eventually share it with the list but I have to muck up the maps aagain -- they were originally done in pencil and have smudged too much to scan in. Cool!! I'd be interested!!! Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 10:36:15 +0000 From: wizzard@mail.intcom.de Subject: Re: Re[4]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World Hi folks, regarding: >>... >>arrows in his quiver. Once used up, they are done. And I do not care how good the Glantri battle mage kit is, once that mage is forced into close melee the fighter based soldier is going to prevail. Especially an Ethie on horseback matched against a Glantrian on horseback. A mage better take his target down with that first magic missile lest that target ride him down. Even if the mage slays the target, he is pretty much spent spell wise. But think just of one thiong. Besides that it is always said mages are more powerful in high levels that soldiers .... *typical lamentations* ... It might be true that he is not that strong in a one-on-one direct contest, but the "normal" soldier normally has to reach his enemy first. Even if outnumbered they will decimate their foes and if it really comes to close combat I´m sure that the mage-troops will outnumber their enemy. Backplot to real history. Archers were with light or no armour and also very insufficient in close combat compared to normal foot-troops but they were one the most terrible weapons an enemy could come up with. E.g. the Hungarian steppe riders and the Austrian knights: Think of all those western knight s in their shiny armours. They came like gods on their horses but the Hungarian riders wore no armour and used horsebows. The knights´ armours were penetrated and all the knights slain. Little joke, nothing more: the "Untouchables" (movie with Kevin Kostner, Sean Connery) and Connery says "This must be an Italian, comes to a shootout with a knife". Got the point?? Wizzard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 08:04:05 -0500 From: anowack@juno.com (Aaron E Nowack) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Air Machine Rules Hello there Mystarans! This is a set of rules I've made up for mass aerial combat. Want to use it, forget it, give me rare Mystara stuff in appreciation :)? Feel free. Anyways, if you want to put it on your webpage, just give me credit. Now on to the Air Machine. Step 1: Calculate the marines BR as described on p. 117-8 of the Rules Cycolpedia (RC). The "mounted" modifiers do not apply. Step 2: Determine the crew's BFR as described on page 117 of the RC. Ignore any crew who cannot fight because they are needed to control the skyship or other form of aerial transportation. Also determine the fleet's total hull points (HP). Step 3: Determine the fleet's BR starting with the crew's BFR. Each time one of the following bonuses apply add one-tenth of the BFR as a bonus. Artilery (any long ranged weapon other than missile weapons carried by marines or crew, for instance both dragon's breath and a catapult count as artillery) a. if 20% of the fleet's total HP has artillery b. if 20% of the fleet's total HP has magical artillery c. if 50% of the fleet's total HP has artillery d. if 50% of the fleet's total HP has magical artillery Defenses e. if 20% of the fleet's total HP has magical defenses f. if 50% of the fleet's total HP has magical defenses Special movement g. if 1% of the fleet's total HP has a form of special movement (ethereal travel, teleportation, etc.) h. if 20% of the fleet's total HP has a form of special movement i. if 100% of the fleet's total HP has a form of special movement Step 4: Make an average of both BRs determined above. This is the final fleet BR. Step 5: Resolve the combat using normal War Machine rules. The following additional modifiers apply. +20 if the fleet's average manuvering factor is higher than the opponent's +20 if the fleet's average air speed is faster than the opponent's +20 if the fleet's average quality rating (if used) is higher than the opponents Aerial Combat Results Table Differance Ship Damage Extra Casualties Fautigue W:L W:L W:L 1-8 0:5% ----- N:N 9-15 1%:10% ----- N:N 16-24 5%:15% 0:10% N:M 25-30 5%:25% 0:20% N:M 39-50 10%:30% 1/2x:20% M:S 51-63 10%:35% x:40% N:NF 64-80 15%:40% 0:30% N:NF 81-90 15%:50% x:50% N:MF 91-100 20%:60% x:60% N:MF 101-120 20%:70% 1/2x:50% M:SF 121-150 25%:80% 0:30% N:SF 151+ 25%:90% 1/2x:70% N:SU W:winner; L:loser %:the percentage of casualties in HP for ships and HD for living creatures x: amount of casualties taken by opponent N: No fautigue M:moderate fautigue S:serious fautigue F:fleet retreats to home port U:fleet surrenders Ship damage is percent of HP, Extra Casualties is percent of HD Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 12:35:52 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #218 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com or levels on non-destroyed ships. NOTE: For flying creatures, substitute HD for HP. Aaron Nowack "In the grim darkness of the far future there is only.... SPAM." http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/5930/ _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 09:29:09 EDT From: LandoTW Subject: [MYSTARA] - Working on a Web Page Hi all..... I'm begining to slap together a web page dedicated soley to the Savage Coast. As yet, there is still a bunch of work to do, but I do have some things ready to be looked at. Most of it is general information about the area as taken from the downloadable campaign setting. In the furute, I'm going to add adventures, memorable PC's and NPC's, and just about anything else from my campaigns I found fun. Check it out if you are so inclined: The Savage Coast (www.geocities.com/area51/shire/7311) Al *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 11:03:01 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance (was PC1 and Alfheim) In a message dated 98-04-13 21:41:45 EDT, Geoff writes: << Glen said: >Hang on, here...the Known World just went through a seriously nasty war. Now you want to have another one? If anyone were to consider invading the Known World from any direction, there's an important point to consider: there are a LOT of veterans of the Glantri-Alphatian war all over the place, and they all remember how to use a sword (or spear, or bow, or whatever). The nations of the Known World would all be able to get back to battle-readiness in a hurry. I'd have to agree with Glen here. The KW has undergone enough turmoil with WotI - the last thing it needs is another battle of epic proportions. I'm not saying that conflict will disappear in future issues of the Almanac, but I really don't think that something this big should happen right now. Future events will have enough going on to interest everyone - trust me! >> Oh yes, I agree. WotI has left its mark across the face of Mystara. But technically the Great War never ended. Alphatia's fight against Thyatis was ended by truce. Which Thyatis broke by displaying aggression after Alphatia sank. Glantri is still present ticking away with its Radiance. The conflict between the Immortals was never really resolved too well. Old Ones stepping in doesn't really count. Ixion and his posse are probably still brewing over the fight. Rad's side is weakened whether or not you have him still in existance or even as an Immortal. What I am trying to say is that there are still alot of unresolved issues. Some have been touched upon by the PWAs and such. But let us face it, there was never any closure. This is especially so on the part of the Alphatians. The bulk of their army remained topside when Alphatia sank. Loss of homeland is surely a deciding factor in a mass of armed, trained, and battle tested men and women. With Thyatis kept in check thanks to said warriors and the Thothians, attentions would certainly return to hated Glantri. Glantri the source of the power that sank Alphatia. Glantri the "cause" of the war. Glantri the residence of the hated Flaems. I would like to see some of these displaced forces organizing into units acting against glantri. A sort of Alfheim Avengers. IIRC Karameikos has seen a great deal of Alphatian refugees. And Karameikos is a great staging area for such troop units. And Karameikos also houses half the Alfheim. Two vengefull people who lost their homelands are a catalyst. Especially since Glantri can be blamed in some manner for both. I plan on addressing this in the AY2001-10 addendum for my description of Randel. Randel is a kingdom with an extremely high proportion of troops in service (PWA). As such, it would have a bunch of its populace still topside. And given Randel's militerism it is unlikely you'd see them settling down peacefully. Perhaps with the winds of war subsided, rational minds can act to fix the problems without mass warfare. I see great opportunities for PCs to do jobs. Alot of old scores to settle. An enterprising group of PCs could find it quite profitable. Besides, adventurer fees pay and play better than soldier wages and soldier life. Whoa.....I am rambling. But essentially, I would like to see some more follow ups to the events of the Great War. Also like to see some NPC follow ups. Wonder what happened to Crackle and his mom. What about that Darokin guy that "hooked" the PCs into the mess to begin with? What about the Immortals themselves and their attitudes since the Great War? Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 11:29:49 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance (was PC1 and Alfheim) At 11:03 AM 4/14/98 EDT, you wrote: >What I am trying to say is that there are still alot of unresolved issues. Some have been touched upon by the PWAs and such. But let us face it, there was never any closure. This is especially so on the part of the Alphatians. The bulk of their army remained topside when Alphatia sank. Loss of homeland is surely a deciding factor in a mass of armed, trained, and battle tested men >and women. And afterall...wasn't it unresolved issues that led to WWII? WWI never truly ended, as I recall, and kept sort of bubbling on the back burner in several countries... Feelings of pride, both broken and buoyed, from the prior war eventually came to a head; fanned by powerful influential leaders... I can see a renewed hostility happening in the coming years. Wars are often unsatisfying to someone or other... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 11:45:56 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: Re[4]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World In a message dated 98-04-13 13:50:55 EDT, you write: << > >As a side note, you have to think about initiative. IMC I have Glantrian mages >at a disadvantage in casting time. This is from the Glantrian tendancy to cast >spells with elaborate motions and added affect (prettier spells). No nonsense >mages from Alphatia and Thyatis (for example) would have a field day as they >snap off spells while the Glantrians emphasize form over function. Linking this to the Ethie, it would be safe to say that an Ethie bowman could >beat a mage to the draw (so to speak) if the warrior has placed himself within >range of the caster. While the mage is doing his motions and encantations, the >Ethie has drawn his arrow, knocked it, drawn its string and let it fly. <> Feel free. I love a good debate. <> I actually thought of this. I meant to include it but did not for some reason. I see no reason why military training would not include "no nonsense" spells. Chalk it up as part of training. <> Once again I according to the above stated comment. Training is key. <> Interesting thought. Yet the Ethie dogs are the masters of the steppes. Their mastery comes from their ability to ride and survive the vast expanses. This ability allows them to outmanuever any wildfire based attack. And the steppes themselves would quickly recover from a brazing. The wildgrasses would quickly recover any ground lost. Plus, I imagine the Flaems being somewhat begrudged to implement wind spells. That is if they even could. Air magics are a specialty of the "hated Alphatians" not the Fire Mages. Now Fire Elementals and simular creatures could work. But range would come into play. Also, in burning the grasses, the Glantrians would lose the fodder for their own mounts. And an army heavily dependant upon needs not to broaden its supply lines with bulk fodder from Glantri. <> True. In fact, I have always wondered at the influence Jherek and Urmahid would offer if the Ethie and Glantrian were to throw down. An added twist would be the incorporation of JKhan's "traitor scenario". <> I disagree. Knowing your enemy is one thing, but defeating them is another. Adequate Recon is essential but does not insure victory. Gained information can also imbibe false perceptions about an enemy. Perceptions that can have a whiplash affect. War is often referred to as organized chaos. Even the best laid plans of commanders go array. Skill, both physical and tactical, are key to victory. A small group of able troops have often held off greater enemy numbers using initiative and improvisation based upon training and down right guts. If you want examples I can oblige. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 12:17:06 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: Re[4]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World << But if one of their arrow always hit its target, they would be pretty tough one-on-one. A sleep spell could taking down even more than one target. The way I see it, if Glantri can keep the battle at even number, they will be pretty effective. But if the opposition out numbers them by a good deal, they will get overran more easily than regular troops. >> Not again Ethengarian troops. These brave horse warriors know how to fight against magicians and when to flight before the foes. Jamuga Khan "There's a time to ride against the enemy, and a time to ride before, and only he is a true Ethengarian horse warrior who knows the time and follow the commands of his commander. All other are stupid traitors who deserve every fate." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 12:17:01 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance (was PC1 and Alfheim) << Unfortunately I doubt this interesting scenario will be included in forthcoming Mystaran Net-Almanacs, at least not in the close future. Why this? Because some events described in 1015 Net-Almanac clearly prevent Ethengar from attacking anyone in the near future. I'm sorry :) -------------- Fabrizio Paoli >> I'm sorry that the editors of the Mystaran Almanac all died when a strange special force command from the north broke into the rooms of the editorial staff and devastated all they could. :-) Jamuga Khan "When the word dictates the action, fight the word first!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 10:00:48 +0000 (GMT) From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re:[MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World >In a message dated 98-04-12 23:48:16 EDT, Alex wrote: ><< But if one of their arrow always hit its target, they would be pretty ttough one-on-one. A sleep spell could taking down even more than one target. The way I see it, if Glantri can keep the battle at even number, they will be pretty effective. But if the opposition out numbers them by a good deal, they will get overran more easily than regular troops. >> >Good point. But what about range? For example, A Sleep Spell has a range of 30yards (ad&d). This is well within the range of a Ethie bowman. Or should I say bowmen, since the Ethie utilize mass formation tactics so as to bring a heavy impact damage upon an opponent. Considering the spellcasting could be disrupted and the spell lost due to a hit, the spell inventory is further lessened. This is where terrain comes into it again, if there's fighting in the mountains then units can run into each other at very close range, not that running into a bunch of Ethengarians at close range would be particularly good :) Need to look up rules, but what would a sleep spell do to the horses of the Ethengarians? If they got hit by a number of sleeps, fell off their horses and then the Glantrian Fighters rushed in, they may have more of a chance. >A Ethie warrior can go into battle with a score of arrows in his quiver. He can stand off at a range beyond that of Sleep Spells. Even a Magic Missile is only 60yards+10yards per level (ad&d). And a Magic Missile does only 1d4+1 points of damage. This loss of HP can be absorbed by a Warrior. At leasy it can be absorbed alot easier by him than a mage can take an arrow hit. And the warrior does not lose the ability to draw the string if he is hit while in that very process. >Also, arrows can be reused if not damaged, and do not require time to rememorize. The Ethie warriors are also fighters which have a greater chance of making a Save vs. Spell and avoiding the enchantment. And lest I forget that the Ethie can fire on the run....er gallop whereas mages cannot. IIRC the Glantri mages are mounted but have to bring their mounts to a standstill to cast a spell. >As a side note, you have to think about initiative. IMC I have Glantrian mages at a disadvantage in casting time. This is from the Glantrian tendancy to cast spells with elaborate motions and added affect (prettier spells). No nonsense mages from Alphatia and Thyatis (for example) would have a field day as they snap off spells while the Glantrians emphasize form over function. Linking this to the Ethie, it would be safe to say that an Ethie bowman could beat a mage to the draw (so to speak) if the warrior has placed himself within range of the caster. While the mage is doing his motions and encantations, the Ethie has drawn his arrow, knocked it, drawn its string and let it fly. Just to even the odds (mainly cos I play a Glantri campaign, and I'd prefer them not to get wiped out so easily :) ), if we assume that the army mages of Glantri got a bit of training at the Great School, then they could have picked up the Quick Casting ability, so their spells would go off first in the round. Or they could have the Cast Spells While Moving ability (can't remember it's name), which allows them to cast spells on horseback amongst other things. Does Protection from Normal Missles extend to more than one person? Cos then the Glantrians could give their troops the protection their commanders have. Hmm, Also if the Commander of a division is an elementalists from the School, then there's gonna be a few more allies on the Glantrian side. And if it's Jaggar then they might have a couple of dragons. Course the Ethengarians have spirits so it probably even's out... Also, I can't see Alphatian mages as being no-nonsense! They're much more colourful, extravagant and whimsical. IMC Alphatians individually aren't as dangerous as a Glantrian mage, simply because they have no need to be. Alphatia is a nice place to be, where you can hide for hundreds of years and learn magic at whatever pace you want. There's a lot less competition than in Glantri where people struggle to get to the top because they've got a fairly good chance of making it. When in Alphatia, you're never going to be the best, or anywhere near it. (Well, unless you're a PC :) but for the vast majority..) There's this huge Council of mages who are better than you are, so there really isn't as much point in rushing to be the best around. In Glantri, it's like student politics, it's really nasty cos the stakes are so low :) (Well, by comparison). Only reason for this attitude in Alphatia IMC, is cos otherwise I rekon they'd have no problem in slughtering the Glantrians within a couple of days of war breaking out in WOTI. So I have most of the Alphatians not caring about the war, and also allowing individual Glantrians a bit of a boost magic wise. I'm not sure if the logic holds up though, seeing as how the Alphatians have been around 2000 years and the Glantrians are relatively new. Hmmm, maybe have to make the Alphatians a bit more decadent or something... waffle, waffle... gordon http://seija.ucd.ie/dnd/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #218 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 03:32:00 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #219 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Wednesday, April 15 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 219 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: Re[4]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance (was PC1 and Alfheim) Re: Re[4]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World Re: Re[4]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World Re: Re[4]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World Re: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing Re:[4] [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World Re: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Skills and Powers Re[4]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World Re: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Skills and Powers Re: Re[4]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 12:50:10 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: Re[4]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World In a message dated 98-04-13 13:56:10 EDT, you write: << You guys raise some interesting points re: the comparative tactical strength of Ethengarian and Glantrian forces. However it seems to me that you are missing some key points about larger strategic and operational factors. >> All ears. Quite interested as warfare is a favorite subject of mine. Did not really want to bring logistics and such into the discussion. <> Not sure if I'd go that far. Skirmishers are deployed in small numbers. The Ethie ride in massed ranks. In comabt they can bring an eneormous volley of arrows into the ranks of the enemy while charging. And within closing ranks, they can use the bow at close range or engage with melee weapons. Arty- I would assume the Glantrians to have ballista and catapults. I would place the high level mages as Artillery too. Their spells could do some damage to an approaching horde. But artillery is somewhat negated with the Ethie. Their speed and manueverbility favor them. Standard arty (cats and ballista) have a relatively slow rate of fire. Also aiming could be a problem as the Ethie move about. The mages would also have a time as they draw fire from a hundred or so Ethie while trying to conjure up a spell. At best spells are disrupted. At worst you have a mage pincushion. <> I agree. Glantri doesn't possess the numbers to cover such a broad range. Their numbers are small as is and such a police action would be compromised by the logistics and expected partisan activity. I see it as highly unlikely a disloyal Ethie Clan would aid the hated Glantrians. If anything a war would provide solidarity. I like the idea of the humanoids. Though I see them as fodder, their presence could divert Ethie troops. Despite a proponent for noid intelligence, I think the noids would fare ill in combat. They lack the tactics and untity to stand up to a concerted fight against Ethie troops in the open steppes. <> I agree. See above mentioned statement of high evel mages as Arty for verification. <> Not only to engage them but force them into a sustained engagement. One that they cannot use their advantage of maneuver to escape or turn a flank. Such a move would reqire encirclement and great numbers. Not to mention a great maneuverbility factor to do so. Destroying the Ethie war footing is an option. However this could prove difficult as the steppes allow manuever and space to fall back upon. As a result you would see the Glantri forces drawn out, strecthing supply lines and troop numbers to their limits. The Ethie may not have a General Winter, but they do have the ability to buy time. And as the Ethie are pushed back, they are compressed together offering a big concentration of troops while the Glantrian troops are spread out securing the rear. <> A job for those humanoids of Kol. I doubt butchery is not below the Glantrians but the problems of finding and sending troops to these camps are a definite risk. Teleportation is an option but requires many mages to send adequate numbers. Even the elite elven forces of Jaggar would be hardpressed in a treeless expanse of terrain. It is difficult, almost suicidal, task to go that deep with Ethie lands. Lands very different from Glantri. BTW given the reverses the Glantrian elves have experienced of late, their contribution may not factor. May even act as a fifth column. <> Yep. Combat would be nasty. The Glantrian invaders would find life difficult. The steppes are difficult. Where as the Ethie could fall back and subside from the land and herds, the Glantrians would have to bring supplies in. Even fodder could be a problem without a mass burning by the Ethie. The glantrian mounts could be ill at ease at consuming the wild grasses. Each Ethie's mind would burn at the thoughts of Glantrian pigs invading the precious steppes. Centuries of ill feelings would arrise and the Ethie would only be satisfied with a bounty of dead. I doubt the Ethie could conquer Glantri, even with a massive counterattack after drawing the Glantrians into the steppes a wearing them down. More likely, a massive raid inflicting a great deal of damage. Focus would fall on the Principalities close to the Ethie border. And I am sure of at least two Princes who would find a concerted Ethie assault within their own lands. <> Oh I agree. Howvever since 1st level mages make a goodly portion of the Glantrian Grand Army, there would be an expected clash between mage and horse warrior. In my opinion, in equal numbers the Ethie would prevail against the mounted spellcasters and warriors of Glantri. There is a difference between one trained for the saddle and one born to the saddle. As stated some time back by myself, the Ethie need an infantry arm to win against Glantri. Whether Heldan or Rockhome gets involved is vital. And lest we forget the potential of vengeful Alphatian born "mercs" laying about after the Great War. They'd probably work cheap if Glantri is the target. And lest I forget the Alfheim in Wendar and Karameikos that are in need of a new homeland. And who also may wish to help their Erewan brethren. I'll continue to meddle in this and come up with a scenario or two or three that could prove interesting. I have to reconfig the Glantrian side to account for the loss of the Erewan and the use of noids. I'll probably toss in Rockhome as Ethie allies. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 12:54:09 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance (was PC1 and Alfheim) << I'd have to agree with Glen here. The KW has undergone enough turmoil with WotI - the last thing it needs is another battle of epic proportions. I'm not saying that conflict will disappear in future issues of the Almanac, but I really don't think that something this big should happen right now. Future events will have enough going on to interest everyone - trust me! :-) If anybody should have got the notion that I was for this action, I must disappoint him. I was undecided, but more against it than for. OTOH I've got an idea: What if we develope another scenario some centuries in the future? O.k., there would be two great problems: Who has the time to do the work and how we can get it linked to the presence? Jamuga Khan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 12:54:14 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: Re[4]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World << <> I disagree. Knowing your enemy is one thing, but defeating them is another. Adequate Recon is essential but does not insure victory. Gained information can also imbibe false perceptions about an enemy. Perceptions that can have a whiplash affect. War is often referred to as organized chaos. Even the best laid plans of commanders go array. Skill, both physical and tactical, are key to victory. A small group of able troops have often held off greater enemy numbers using initiative and improvisation based upon training and down right guts. If you want examples I can oblige. >> Recon gives no advantage neither to Glantri nor to Ethengar. There are Krondaharian and Bramyran spies on the steppes and Ethengarian brataks in Glantri, disguised as, exactly, Krondaharians and Bramyrans. Don't forget, that Ethengarian thieves work as spies as all belong to the khans. There's nothing to steal. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 13:24:14 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: Re[4]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World In a message dated 98-04-14 04:52:54 EDT, you write: << But think just of one thiong. Besides that it is always said mages are more powerful in high levels that soldiers .... *typical lamentations* ...>> And it often proves to be the truth in game play. <> Assembling greater numbers of magetroops is expensive and unlikely. fighters are more prevalent as well as more cost effective. IMO Glantri does not possess the finances or populace to garner such a sizeable unit of mage troops to match the Ethie. <> But archery allows an archer to keep the enemy at arms length thus negating his immediate need for armour. But in the case of Ethie/Mongols/Huns the bow was not their only weapon. Swords and the like wear also present and frequently used. The horses themselves were also weapons as a horse could not only hoof an opponent, but it could also tear a man's face off with a bite. The Hun mounts were especially known for this blood lust. BTW both the RW Huns and Mongols wore armour. And not any dinky stuff either. Most drew from captured goods. Scale and chainmail were prized. << E.g. the Hungarian steppe riders and the Austrian knights: Think of all those western knight s in their shiny armours. They came like gods on their horses but the Hungarian riders wore no armour and used horsebows. The knights´ armours were penetrated and all the knights slain.>> Simple case of staying out of reach of the Knights while popping a few arrows sans composite bow into the plate. BTW a composite recurve is an awesome weapon. Excellent arrow speed and velocity. Dangerous not only to the intended target, but also the man behind him. << Little joke, nothing more: the "Untouchables" (movie with Kevin Kostner, Sean Connery) and Connery says "This must be an Italian, comes to a shootout with a knife". Got the point??>> Just call it range and having the right tools for the right job. A simple tactic spanning the dark ages to the modern age. Hit thine enemy before he can hit thee. Spear vs. stone ax onto a 120mm tank gun vs. 100mm tank gun. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 17:47:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: Re[4]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World On Tue, 14 Apr 1998, Alex295 wrote: >All ears. Quite interested as warfare is a favorite subject of mine. Did not really want to bring logistics and such into the discussion. Ah but war by definition is mostly logisitics and only a little bit tactics ... it's maneuver, supply, and related issues that determine the general course of the conflict ... in Ethengar as in our world. ><> >Not sure if I'd go that far. Skirmishers are deployed in small numbers. The Ethie ride in massed ranks. In comabt they can bring an eneormous volley of arrows into the ranks of the enemy while charging. And within closing ranks, they can use the bow at close range or engage with melee weapons. The Ethengar can ride in massed ranks, and it would be useful for them to do so versus an enemy without long range artillery or horse archers ... but they are still skirmishers, because they are simply not as effective in close quarters melee fighting. RW Mongols fought almost always from bow range ... this would be accentuated in the Glantrian case because they would have the equivalent of late medieval armor ... AC 0 and lower in many cases and heavy lances (versus the Ethengarians who would have light lances and lamellar armor at best). I don't know of any situation in which Mongols actually fought by cavalry charges ... IIRC they nearly always circled and fired volleys on the move so they could stay out of range of the defenders. Plains nations in North America did this same tactic against the US cavalry ... hence the old "circled wagons" fortification as a defense; the defense had to be circular because the attack was. >Arty- I would assume the Glantrians to have ballista and catapults. I would place the high level mages as Artillery too. Their spells could do some damage to an approaching horde. >But artillery is somewhat negated with the Ethie. Their speed and manueverbility favor them. Standard arty (cats and ballista) have a relatively slow rate of fire. Also aiming could be a problem as the Ethie move about. The mages would also have a time as they draw fire from a hundred or so Ethie while trying to conjure up a spell. At best spells are disrupted. At worst you have a mage pincushion. you are back to talking about low level mages without protection again. the way i envision it, the Glantrians would have ranks of heavy infantry (possibly with crossbowmen) with good armor, possibly behind fortifications, to block the horsemen from coming within firing range of the mages ... who would be invisible and protected from normal missiles anyway, while they prepared large-scale offensive spells to be unleashed on the massed Ethengarians ... the artillery also (even if slow) would be more effective against massed horsemen, which would give the Ethengarians a further incentive to disperse ... but then the Glantrians (if they were able to engage) would be able to make selective overwhelming counterattacks and cut them to shreds. So essentially the Ethengarians would want to AVOID engaging such a combined arms massed force if at all possible. never mind volospin's dragonfly and similar weapons ... ><other hand, have no way of keeping up with the maneuver speed of the Ethengarian units, and thus no real way of forcing the enemy to engage ... UNLESS they use systematic patrolling, which means they have to figure out a way to protect their scout patrols from being massacred. This would mean that they would need to have experienced trackers native to the plains ... most likely goblinoids, or a disloyal Ethengar clan; they would also have to have powerful magic to defend such trackers.>> >I agree. Glantri doesn't possess the numbers to cover such a broad range. Their numbers are small as is and such a police action would be compromised by the logistics and expected partisan activity. I see it as highly unlikely a disloyal Ethie Clan would aid the hated Glantrians. If anything a war would provide solidarity. You never know, there are some pretty treacherous khans around ... i didn't say it was all that likely, i think the goblinoids would be much mroe likely ... i bet some of those goblin wolf riders might actually be pretty effective scouts. i think magical intelligence might also help in this case ... >I like the idea of the humanoids. Though I see them as fodder, their presence could divert Ethie troops. Despite a proponent for noid intelligence, I think the noids would fare ill in combat. They lack the tactics and untity to stand up to a concerted fight against Ethie troops in the open steppes. they may be goblinoids, but i see no reason to assume they are so pathetic as this ... certainly they lack the discipline of the horse warriors but they HAVE survived on the steppes for this long and they must know a few things ... i disagree with those who make goblinoids out to be stupid nose-pickers ... they may be nosepickers indeed but they can be vicious tacticians. <important effects of magic on combat come not from the massed low-level mages discussed in the Glantri war machine write up (i can't imagine that system working at all, actually) but from high-level mages strategically placed to support masses of ordinary fighters. It only takes one 7th level mage to cast massmorph on a unit, which can be composed entirely of fighters otherwise (although of course this particular spell would not be all that appropriate on the plains). >> >I agree. See above mentioned statement of high evel mages as Arty for verification. i believe you! i am just being my old argumentative self ... no need to get defensive. ><> >Not only to engage them but force them into a sustained engagement. One that they cannot use their advantage of maneuver to escape or turn a flank. Such a move would reqire encirclement and great numbers. Not to mention a great maneuverbility factor to do so. >Destroying the Ethie war footing is an option. However this could prove difficult as the steppes allow manuever and space to fall back upon. As a result you would see the Glantri forces drawn out, strecthing supply lines and troop numbers to their limits. The Ethie may not have a General Winter, but they do have the ability to buy time. And as the Ethie are pushed back, they are compressed together offering a big concentration of troops while the Glantrian troops are spread out securing the rear. i think we need to keep in mind that the ethengarians don't have a real complex economy ... basically they depend upon the yak herds, and as a migratory people in a fairly expansive country, they wouldn't be able to hold "lines" or fall back to defenses so much as they would need to move with their herds ... if the Glantrians can find a way of making either the herds or Ethengarian civilians (women and children) a liability, they would do so ... historically these were both options tried out by the US Army on the plains, in utterly brutal fashion. >><particularly concerned with honorable rules of engagement; I think the first thing they would do would be to use scrying spells to find the location of Ethengarian camps (especially while the warriors were away to the war), teleport in with as many elite troops as possible, and butcher every woman and child in sight in the most ghastly way possible. They would use deceit, treachery, bribery, false promises, magically engineered plagues, monsters, undead, goblinoid auxiliaries, they would attempt to decimate the food herds, they would stop at nothing to undermine the Ethengarian "threat". >> >A job for those humanoids of Kol. I doubt butchery is not below the Glantrians but the problems of finding and sending troops to these camps are a definite risk. Teleportation is an option but requires many mages to send adequate numbers. Even the elite elven forces of Jaggar would be hardpressed in a treeless expanse of terrain. It is difficult, almost suicidal, task to go that deep with Ethie lands. Lands very different from Glantri. BTW given the reverses the Glantrian elves have experienced of late, their contribution may not factor. May even act as a fifth column. these are all important. the last part may depend upon WHEN we are talking about ... I think they would want to not send troops on suicide missions, so they would be very careful ... but the Ethengarians can't protect everything. one important thing to consider: it depends which rules you use for clairvoyance (3rd level mage spell) ... used to be this had a very limited range but in 2nd edition D&D you can use it on any familiar location regardless of distance ... gets pretty crazy, yeah? >><> >Yep. Combat would be nasty. The Glantrian invaders would find life difficult. The steppes are difficult. Where as the Ethie could fall back and subside from the land and herds, the Glantrians would have to bring supplies in. Even fodder could be a problem without a mass burning by the Ethie. The glantrian mounts could be ill at ease at consuming the wild grasses. true. i wouldn't imagine sustained missions at all ... if anything the logical way for the Glantrians to do this would be to build a series of forts and stock them with provisions ... but that means an attempt at sustained conquest, and I can't see it working through all of the plains without control of the whole Streel river trade route, which means controlling the Broken Lands and Darokin ... what might be more likely would be limited expansion, say taking all the land west of the Dol Anur... >Each Ethie's mind would burn at the thoughts of Glantrian pigs invading the precious steppes. Centuries of ill feelings would arrise and the Ethie would only be satisfied with a bounty of dead. I doubt the Ethie could conquer Glantri, even with a massive counterattack after drawing the Glantrians into the steppes a wearing them down. More likely, a massive raid inflicting a great deal of damage. Focus would fall on the Principalities close to the Ethie border. And I am sure of at least two Princes who would find a concerted Ethie assault within their own lands. on this i agree completely. i think the Ten Thousand Fists of Khan might find some interesting work in the valleys of Boldavia ... ><meetings of 1st level magic users vs. 1st level horse warriors would be more or less incidental; what would really decide the war would be strategic maneuvering and the ability to stomach these kinds of losses. on the other hand, all of this would be very different, of course, if other countries intervened ... say Heldann, or Rockhome. but that's another issue.>> >Oh I agree. Howvever since 1st level mages make a goodly portion of the Glantrian Grand Army, there would be an expected clash between mage and horse warrior. In my opinion, in equal numbers the Ethie would prevail against the mounted spellcasters and warriors of Glantri. There is a difference between one trained for the saddle and one born to the saddle. I guess what I am trying to say is that I don't think the standard organization of the Glantrian army would work in this context, and they wouldn't be foolish enough to try it. Jaggar may be a schweinkopf sometimes but he won't put low level mages into direct even confrontations they can't win .... he would deploy his troops so that if he is going to lose anything, it will be non-spellcaster peasant infantry ... >As stated some time back by myself, the Ethie need an infantry arm to win against Glantri. Whether Heldan or Rockhome gets involved is vital. And lest we forget the potential of vengeful Alphatian born "mercs" laying about after the Great War. They'd probably work cheap if Glantri is the target. And lest I forget the Alfheim in Wendar and Karameikos that are in need of a new homeland. And who also may wish to help their Erewan brethren. Yes, it does depend quite a great deal on the politics ... that's why diplomacy is so interesting. I confess I hadn't thought of the mercenary issue ... any GAZ 12 info on how much gold the Khan has lying about? another issue of course which someone brought up earlier is the air power thing ... flying boats WOULD tip the balance one way or the other. as for Ethengar-allied infantry, dwarves would make an excellent addition ... the problem is that then they would have to be closely linked to the cavalry arm and this would give Jaggar a lot less of a disadvantage in terms of maneuver ... but it might still work. >I'll continue to meddle in this and come up with a scenario or two or three that could prove interesting. I have to reconfig the Glantrian side to account for the loss of the Erewan and the use of noids. I'll probably toss in Rockhome as Ethie allies. sounds pretty interesting! when specifically are you thinking about setting this? (it makes a difference) i look forward to checking it out. peace, m@2 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 22:32:46 -0400 From: spymaster@gamesnet.com (spymaster) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing >Only to remind all without PC1: >When the sphere of integration existed, there were FOUR destructive spheres, Energy, Thought, Time and Matter. Of course these were not the same as nowadays as these four melted together to Entropy while Integration splitted to four new. This is a very odd legend. I have always known these spheres (described in the rather esoteric Immortals Rules): Earth <-> Matter Fire <-> Energy Air <-> Thought Water <-> Time Haven't these existed since the Old Ones were still Immortals? It would seem so from what was described in the books. On an Immortal related topic: Rad was an immortal of the sphere of Energy, thus is the reason why he tried to understand the Nucleus of the Spheres. In WoTI, He (supposedly) Became an Old One in front of Ixion and the PC's. BUT! What would happen if the Shadow Elf Shamans ever completed Rafiel's copy of the Nucleus? That was never covered in WoTI, and I haven't seen anything on that line since the Shadow Elves Gazetteer. Maximillian IV, Emperor of Vulcal *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 22:31:01 EDT From: Duncan TKD Subject: Re:[4] [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World >>if the Glantrians can find a way of making either the herds or Ethengarian civilians (women and children) a liability, they would do so ... historically these were both options tried out by the US Army on the plains, in utterly brutal fashion.<< Sounds like they might try ta invest in some magically engineered virus. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 23:47:18 -0400 From: Derek Harmon Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing JamugaKhan wrote: ><< Could Entropy possibly been connected to the Negative Material Plane>? : >Probably not, as we have no Negative Material Plane in D&D, but in the hundreds of parallel Mystaras which depend on AD&D this might be true. I agree, both that it doesn't exist in the D&D-ruled Mystaras and it's probably a DM toss-up whether to accept the AD&D multiverse for Mystara or import the D&D multiverse into AD&D (which doesn't take too much work, and for one, eliminates the need to consult Planescape..) >BTW, how many Mystaras depend on D&D and how many on AD&D? I know this! 17,402 Mystaras still depend on D&D while 21,596 Mystaras depend on AD&D. 3;D> Actually I don't have the statistics, I made those figures up. But, I would figure that many Mystaras have been converted over to AD&D, and while at one time D&D was the in-rules system for Mystara, since D&D's demise many people I believe would have taken Mystara over to AD&D to make use of its greater variety and supplements (Though I don't have anything against old D&D.) -- Stonelight *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 23:34:40 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Skills and Powers In a message dated 98-04-13 07:16:27 EDT, Inconu@aol.com writes: >Have you come up with a point system on the Rake and Bard classes yet? The tthief and bard sections in S&P are from page 51 - page 56. Not in detail, but here is my first cut: Rakes and Bards of Mystara lack the abilities of "Backstab" and "Pick Pockets" but have all of the other abilities of Thieves. Since they set themselves apart from "criminal" Thieves, I would also deny them the ability to speak "Thieves' Cant". These deletions from the standard abilities give them 25 extra character points. A Rake would gain the special abilities of Bribe (5), Defense Bonus (10), and Reaction bonus (5; optional Halfling racial ability on p. 33) and have five points left over for later use. A Bard would gain the special abilities of Alter Moods (5), History (10), and Rally Friends (5), all from the optional Bard special abilities listed on pp. 54-55. The five points left over for later use may be used to help pay for the required NWPs of Local History, Musical Instrument, and Singing. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 00:17:23 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re[4]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World In a message dated 98-04-14 21:06:16 EDT, mlevy@orion.oac.uci.edu writes: >Jaggar may be a schweinkopf sometimes A query for those of us who don't know German -- What is a "schweinkopf"? I know that "pig" is in there as "schwein", but I have no idea about the "kopf" part. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 00:17:25 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing In a message dated 98-04-14 22:47:04 EDT, spymaster@gamesnet.com writes: >What would happen if the Shadow Elf Shamans ever completed Rafiel's copy oof the Nucleus? That was never covered in WoTI, and I haven't seen anything on that line since the Shadow Elves Gazetteer. A very good question -- and one that I think should greatly influence events in the post-Wrath era. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 01:04:49 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Skills and Powers Another Rogue variant for Mystara: the Ethengarian Bratak: This class would have all of the standard Thief abilities except "Pick Pockets" and "Thieves' Cant". "Backstab" would be retained. The lost abilities give the Bratak 15 points to spend on other class abilities. The exact abilities I would give the Bratak as compensation would require me to study the class from the Ethengar gazetteer in more detail -- but in the absence of any conflicting information, the compensating abilities I would give this class would be Tunneling (10) -- very useful for siege warfare -- and Charm Resistance (5; from the Bard abilities on pp. 54-56). Other adjustments would be based on the "Scout" kit from the "Complete Thieves' Handbook". *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 09:31:20 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: Re[4]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World On Wed, 15 Apr 1998, Kaviyd wrote: >In a message dated 98-04-14 21:06:16 EDT, mlevy@orion.oac.uci.edu writes: >>Jaggar may be a schweinkopf sometimes >A query for those of us who don't know German -- What is a "schweinkopf"? I know that "pig" is in there as "schwein", but I have no idea about the "kopf" >part. Kopf=head Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #219 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 13:57:56 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #220 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Wednesday, April 15 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 220 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing Re: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance (was PC1 and Alfheim) Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World Re: Re[4]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World Re: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing Re: Re[4]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World Re: Re[4]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 06:53:25 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing << Haven't these existed since the Old Ones were still Immortals? >> The original Old Ones never were Immortals. << On an Immortal related topic: Rad was an immortal of the sphere of Energy, thus is the reason why he tried to understand the Nucleus of the Spheres. In WoTI, He (supposedly) Became an Old One in front of Ixion and the PC's. >> You should probably reread the module. Rad never became an Old One. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 09:00:12 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing At 06:53 AM 4/15/98 EDT, you wrote: ><< Haven't these existed since the Old Ones were still Immortals? >> >The original Old Ones never were Immortals. ><< On an Immortal related topic: >Rad was an immortal of the sphere of Energy, thus is the reason why he tried to understand the Nucleus of the Spheres. In WoTI, He (supposedly) Became an Old One in front of Ixion and the PC's. >> >You should probably reread the module. Rad never became an Old One. I would say, just what did happen to Rad is debatable. Certainly he may have become an immortal. Or he may simply have been punished for his deeds. If you use "Mark of Amber" he is reverted to an earlier time without his Immortal powers. To my mind this is his chance to earn it all a second time and become an Old One as per the Immortal rules. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 10:09:19 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance (was PC1 and Alfheim) In a message dated 98-04-14 11:52:33 EDT, you write: << At 11:03 AM 4/14/98 EDT, you wrote: >What I am trying to say is that there are still alot of unresolved issues. Some have been touched upon by the PWAs and such. But let us face it, there was never any closure. This is especially so on the part of the Alphatians. The bulk of their army remained topside when Alphatia sank. Loss of homeland is surely a deciding factor in a mass of armed, trained, and battle tested men >and women. And afterall...wasn't it unresolved issues that led to WWII? WWI never truly ended, as I recall, and kept sort of bubbling on the back burner in several countries... Feelings of pride, both broken and buoyed, from the prior war eventually came to a head; fanned by powerful influential leaders... I can see a renewed hostility happening in the coming years. Wars are often unsatisfying to someone or other... >> Thanks Jeff for the support. Not only WW2/WW1 but also Korea. And I would also like to point out that not all wars stopped at the sinking of Alphatia. To name a few- Rockhome went to war with itself. The Noids went on a couple of war paths. And lest we forget the Heldannic domestic rebellions and the Heldan aggressions into Norwold. Civil War in Ylaruam. All of which are documented in PWAs, JA, and Net Almanac AC1014. And given the privy of certain info, I am sure a war or two or three will occur/continue for AY2015 (AC1015 for you barbarians :-)) But anyway....the vaccum left in Alphatia's wake (bad pun) has opened the door for every two bit nation in the KW. Even the big nations are screwed. Without the Alphatians prewar presence, Thyatis is allowed free reign for what is left of that big army of theirs. That is as long as the treasury and domestic situation holds out. Glantri is shot to hell with internal rot and a mere shadow/shell of its prewar strength and solidarity. The Alphatians still topside are dispersed and resentful. Still loaded for bear, these refugees should sooner or later set out to carve a new empire. I have always stated that Alphatia never conquered the eniter world because they had no need. With the refugees accumulating in NACE holdings, they do have a need. Sooner or later, the influx will take its toll on the NACE kingdoms. Expansion for living space will become critical. It is either that or even more Alphatians in Karameikos. That is something I do not wish to see. There is enough Alphatian influence present already. Anymore and soon Alphatian elements will try to control the Karameikans. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 11:08:05 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World In a message dated 98-04-14 12:58:51 EDT, you write: << >In a message dated 98-04-12 23:48:16 EDT, Alex wrote: ><< But if one of their arrow always hit its target, they would be pretty ttough one-on-one. A sleep spell could taking down even more than one target. The way I see it, if Glantri can keep the battle at even number, they will be pretty effective. But if the opposition out numbers them by a good deal, they will get overran more easily than regular troops. >> >Good point. But what about range? For example, A Sleep Spell has a range of 30yards (ad&d). This is well within the range of a Ethie bowman. Or should I say bowmen, since the Ethie utilize mass formation tactics so as to bring a heavy impact damage upon an opponent. Considering the spellcasting could be disrupted and the spell lost due to a hit, the spell inventory is further lessened. This is where terrain comes into it again, if there's fighting in the mountains then units can run into each other at very close range, not that running into a bunch of Ethengarians at close range would be particularly good :) Need to look up rules, but what would a sleep spell do to the horses of the Ethengarians? If they got hit by a number of sleeps, fell off their horses and then the Glantrian Fighters rushed in, they may have more of a chance.>> Yes not only range but initiative. And such a surprise encounter could startle a mage trying to muster a spell. But yes, a planned ambush would do wonders for the Glantri cause. IIRC horses sleep standing up. I see little reason why a horse affected by a sleep spell would collapse. Also remember that Ethie are also swordsmen, not just bowmen. IIRC the Ethie Gaz makes no mention of the Ethie being bow legged and having great difficulty in walking like the Huns. Plus if they can shoot a bow so accurately from the backs of horses imagine their to hit bonus on unmoving ground, especially at close range. >A Ethie warrior can go into battle with a score of arrows in his quiver. He can stand off at a range beyond that of Sleep Spells. Even a Magic Missile is >only 60yards+10yards per level (ad&d). And a Magic Missile does only 1d4+1 points of damage. This loss of HP can be absorbed by a Warrior. At leasy it can be absorbed alot easier by him than a mage can take an arrow hit. And the >warrior does not lose the ability to draw the string if he is hit while in that very process. >Also, arrows can be reused if not damaged, and do not require time to rememorize. The Ethie warriors are also fighters which have a greater chance of making a Save vs. Spell and avoiding the enchantment. And lest I forget that the Ethie can fire on the run....er gallop whereas mages cannot. IIRC the >Glantri mages are mounted but have to bring their mounts to a standstill to cast a spell. >As a side note, you have to think about initiative. IMC I have Glantrian mages >at a disadvantage in casting time. This is from the Glantrian tendancy to cast >spells with elaborate motions and added affect (prettier spells). No nonsense >mages from Alphatia and Thyatis (for example) would have a field day as they snap off spells while the Glantrians emphasize form over function. Linking this to the Ethie, it would be safe to say that an Ethie bowman could >beat a mage to the draw (so to speak) if the warrior has placed himself within >range of the caster. While the mage is doing his motions and encantations, the >Ethie has drawn his arrow, knocked it, drawn its string and let it fly. Just to even the odds (mainly cos I play a Glantri campaign, and I'd prefer them not to get wiped out so easily :) ), if we assume that the army mages of Glantri got a bit of training at the Great School, then they could have picked up the Quick Casting ability, so their spells would go off first in the round. Or they could have the Cast Spells While Moving ability (can't remember it's name), which allows them to cast spells on horseback amongst other things.>> Oh I will not condem ye for favoring Glantri. As a devoted Alphatian fan, I am still peaved about Alphatia sinking. All I have to go on in regards to Glantri is G:KoM. In it there is a a description of the war mage kit. I'd have to check but I see no reason why some if not all of these could not or are not included. <> In AD&D a Prot. from Norm. Missiles is a touch based spell to offer protection to a single person. And since it is a 3rd lvl. spell, it is unavailable to the common war mages. But good point on the balancing out part. That is what really facsinates me about the Ethie vs. Glantri deal. It is a perfect stalemate. Neither can acheive victory over the other. <> By no nonsense I meant more practical. Magic is common in Alphatia. There is little need for flamboyancy with low to mid level spells as they are common knowledge. Why make a big demonstration at casting such spells. IMO Alphatians see magic as a neccessary tool. They emphasize function over form. The low level spells are simple and easily cast and used. Conjuring an Invisible Servant to fetch a book from the library. Or conjuring a blast of wind to remove smoke or a lingering stench. Or painting ones home using Color Spray. Magic is a tool of the Mages. Familiarity and common use breeds ease of use. <> Of course not. The Alphatian Mages have access to most standard spells. Only differing use sets spellcasters apart. With such common spell access mages can estimate the skill of a rival. And even if a duel does surface this is dealt with using spells such as Duel Shield. As such, there is an ever present need for new spells to be developed. IMC I have drawn heavily upon other spell sources to add to this inventory. Dragon Mag. and AD&D sources have been most helpful. <> The Alphatians have spread out into the KW. The Alphatian Empire attests to that. The pre Wrath Empire met their needs. Why increase an Empire's size when it is not needed. Several territories are in need of settlers. And Alphatia was pretty unified for war. Thanks to Immortal influence, the Alphatians waged a war over something they held dear, magic. That they were fighting the home of the Flaems added to this. So mobilized were they that the powers at TSR chose to ally Glantri with Thyatis and Heldannic Knights to balance things out. Even with these two allies, Alphatia was on the verge of launching an assault on Glantri Proper. Alphatia's greatest enemy (besides themselves) was beaten and had sued for peace. The Knoghts were over extended and out of place to offer aid to Glantri. BTW I never understood why Vanya sided with the cleric hating Glantrians. Surely Thyatis's involvement was the deciding factor. If Thyatis wasn't then I would guess Vanya would be rooting for the Alphatians, a conquering people. Afterall, she always cheers for the winners. Hmm......I wonder how much influence the Thyatian defeat had on the ability of the Knights to offer aid to Glantri. Perhaps a bit of foot dragging with Thyatis out of it. Afterall, without Thyatis Glantri was doomed. Why support a losing cause? Not Vanya's usual motivation. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 11:23:06 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: Re[4]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World In a message dated 98-04-15 03:48:53 EDT, Haavard writes: << On Wed, 15 Apr 1998, Kaviyd wrote: >In a message dated 98-04-14 21:06:16 EDT, mlevy@orion.oac.uci.edu writes: >>Jaggar may be a schweinkopf sometimes >A query for those of us who don't know German -- What is a "schweinkopf"? I know that "pig" is in there as "schwein", but I have no idea about the "kopf" >part. Kopf=head>> Haavard beat me to it. My grasp of German is weak. Most of what I know comes from my interest in WW2 history. The other source is "dirty words" taught to us kids by our great uncle. He married a German girl in the 1950s and lived in Germany after retiring from the military in 1972. Hence he had a grasp of the Germanic language. Yet another source comes from the visits of my German cousins. Many a dirty words were swapped while sneaking a smoke in the backyard. Ah the memories of childhood. Anyway many such words had "kopf" as a suffix. Wanna guess which ones? :-) Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 11:28:55 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing In a message dated 98-04-15 09:32:43 EDT, you write: << If you use "Mark of Amber" he is reverted to an earlier time without his Immortal powers. To my mind this is his chance to earn it all a second time and become an Old One as per the Immortal rules. >> And another thought- If Etienne regained Immortality then it would be as a 1st level Immortal, not his pre Wrath level. Could explain the lack of activity. Getting his stuff back in order as an Initiate. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 17:17:33 +0100 From: "alistairhall" Subject: Re: Re[4]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World >A query for those of us who don't know German -- What is a "schweinkopf"? I know that "pig" is in there as "schwein", but I have no idea about the "kopf" >part. kopf means head, my friend. so schweinkopf means pigheaded jobo *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 13:41:39 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: Re[4]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World NOTE: DUE TO SPACE CONSIDERATIONS, CERTAIN PARTS SNIPPED. OTHERWISE THIS WOULD HAVE TO BE BROKEN UP INTO TWO MAILS. In a message dated 98-04-14 21:06:09 EDT, you write: << On Tue, 14 Apr 1998, Alex295 wrote: >All ears. Quite interested as warfare is a favorite subject of mine. Did not >really want to bring logistics and such into the discussion. Ah but war by definition is mostly logisitics and only a little bit tactics ... it's maneuver, supply, and related issues that determine the general course of the conflict ... in Ethengar as in our world.>> I mainly wanted to keep it in the realm of War Machine stats and rules. Also wanted to keep it simple. If I wanted to get fancy, I could come up with all manner of stuff. Drawing actions, flanking maneuvers, pincer attacks, multi prong attacks, and even deversionary attacks come to mind off hand. ><> >Not sure if I'd go that far. Skirmishers are deployed in small numbers. The Ethie ride in massed ranks. In comabt they can bring an eneormous volley of arrows into the ranks of the enemy while charging. And within closing ranks, >they can use the bow at close range or engage with melee weapons. <> Actually the Ethie don leather armor (PWA) but IIRC the Ethie Gaz has them wearing scale armor or banded armor. Unable to find the Gaz so I'll have to check. Against non armoured mages even leather is a boon. <> What would call racing towards thine enemy? True it may not be a knightly charge, but a charge is a charge. I am sure a fighter setting a spear would have the same affect on a "charging" Ethie as a charging Knight in shining armor. Circling attacks are an age old and affective tactic. It is a tactic of maneuver. A flanking manuever to be precise, followed by encirclement. The intial charge and arrow volleys would make for a bad day to the enemy. <> Only in the movies. Native Americans lacked the saddles and more importantly the stirrups that both the Huns and Mongols had. Mounted arrow shots were the thing of Hollywood. Native American tactics were more refined and complicated than those portrayed on film. Many of these tactics are still studied today in the US Army. Forth Knox has a extensive study of Sitting Bull's tactics. Actually, the circled wagons dictated an encirclement. In any encirclement, the outside force acts as a containment force. A portion is set aside to peirce this body of troops in a pincer attack. Interesting you brought up the US Cav in the Old West. IIRC the Cav fought more like mounted infantry, dimounting to engage the enemy with rifles. As such, one out of every five troops was needed to stand and hold the reigns of his and four other troopers' horses. Thus you have a 20% loss of fighting ability without a single casualty. The Old West Cav was a needed for its mobility capability. In actual combat this practice proved a liability when the Cav were outnumbered (ie: Custer). The days of cavalry clashing and fighting from horseback had died with JEB Stuart. >Arty- I would assume the Glantrians to have ballista and catapults. I would place the high level mages as Artillery too. Their spells could do some damage >to an approaching horde. >But artillery is somewhat negated with the Ethie. Their speed and manueverbility favor them. Standard arty (cats and ballista) have a relatively >slow rate of fire. Also aiming could be a problem as the Ethie move about. The >mages would also have a time as they draw fire from a hundred or so Ethie while trying to conjure up a spell. At best spells are disrupted. At worst you >have a mage pincushion. you are back to talking about low level mages without protection again. the way i envision it, the Glantrians would have ranks of heavy infantry (possibly with crossbowmen) with good armor, possibly behind fortifications, to block the horsemen from coming within firing range of the mages ... who would be invisible and protected from normal missiles anyway, while they prepared large-scale offensive spells to be unleashed on the massed Ethengarians ... the artillery also (even if slow) would be more effective against massed horsemen, which would give the Ethengarians a further incentive to disperse ... but then the Glantrians (if they were able to engage) would be able to make selective overwhelming counterattacks and cut them to shreds. So essentially the Ethengarians would want to AVOID engaging such a combined arms massed force if at all possible. never mind volospin's dragonfly and similar weapons ...>> One thing ommitted due to my belief in its apparentness. Massed Arty as you speak would only work in open terrain. And in that element, the Ethie could maneuver against it or at least out of its way. Ballista are high velocity and low trajectory weapons. However, targeting is difficult and damage is centered on one or two targets. Spread out damage arty such as catapults are low velocity and high trajectory, allowing visible recognization and a warning period. And the Glantrians do have the advantage of numbers. By PWA stats they come close to outnumbering the Ethie 2 to 1. Mounted the Ethie can be more picky about an engagement. This can also be used to wear out the Glantrians. IMO a Glantrian horseman is not the equal of a Ethie horse soldier. Once again, I insert the addage "one trained for the saddle versus one born to the saddle". ><other hand, have no way of keeping up with the maneuver speed of the Ethengarian units, and thus no real way of forcing the enemy to engage ... UNLESS they use systematic patrolling, which means they have to figure out a way to protect their scout patrols from being massacred. This would mean that they would need to have experienced trackers native to the plains ... most likely goblinoids, or a disloyal Ethengar clan; they would also have to have powerful magic to defend such trackers.>> >I agree. Glantri doesn't possess the numbers to cover such a broad range. Their numbers are small as is and such a police action would be compromised by >the logistics and expected partisan activity. I see it as highly unlikely a disloyal Ethie Clan would aid the hated Glantrians. If anything a war would provide solidarity. You never know, there are some pretty treacherous khans around ... i didn't say it was all that likely, i think the goblinoids would be much mroe likely ... i bet some of those goblin wolf riders might actually be pretty effective scouts. i think magical intelligence might also help in this case ...>> Treacherous yes, but not stupid. As JKhan says in his sig "The Mighty Khan's word is Law". Goblin Wolf Riders vs. Ethie Horsesoldiers. Not too good. A wolf and horse have two different characteristics for running and such. I doubt you would see them last long on the steppes. >I like the idea of the humanoids. Though I see them as fodder, their presence >could divert Ethie troops. Despite a proponent for noid intelligence, I think >the noids would fare ill in combat. They lack the tactics and untity to stand >up to a concerted fight against Ethie troops in the open steppes. they may be goblinoids, but i see no reason to assume they are so pathetic as this ... certainly they lack the discipline of the horse warriors but they HAVE survived on the steppes for this long and they must know a few things ... i disagree with those who make goblinoids out to be stupid nose-pickers ... they may be nosepickers indeed but they can be vicious tacticians.> > never said noids were stupid. Infact, I have Noids as being about as smart as the average human. Still, I stand by my theory that the goblinoids would be target practice. They simply lack the discipline to stand toe to toe with the Ethie and stand up to their tactics. Against a patrol or small camp a raid may work. But open warfare against a Horde is a different matter. Otherwise, the those goblinoids would have outdone the Ethie long ago. ><> >Not only to engage them but force them into a sustained engagement. One that >they cannot use their advantage of maneuver to escape or turn a flank. Such a >move would reqire encirclement and great numbers. Not to mention a great maneuverbility factor to do so. >Destroying the Ethie war footing is an option. However this could prove difficult as the steppes allow manuever and space to fall back upon. As a result you would see the Glantri forces drawn out, strecthing supply lines and >troop numbers to their limits. The Ethie may not have a General Winter, but they do have the ability to buy time. And as the Ethie are pushed back, they >are compressed together offering a big concentration of troops while the Glantrian troops are spread out securing the rear. <> The lack of a complex economy is also an advantage. There is little established industry to disrupt. As a nomadic people, they are use to moving about. As long as the Yaks are okay the Ethie are happy as clams. Now if the Glantrians were to exterminate the yak herds, the Ethie would be in trouble. That is not an easy task. For the Glantrians lack the hunting rifles RW buff hunters had. IIRC the Native Americans called them "shoot today kill tommorrow". Had an excellent range for the time. But the yak situation is pretty obvious. The herds would be herded back into the steppes thus neccessitating deep attacks into the Ethie rear. A difficult thing. Now a few Glantrian skyships could be built and used as gunships ala "Full Metal Jacket" . However, Glantri lacks the ability of the Alphatian Air Mages to build such craft in a timely fashion. Then you have to train crews to fly them. Not viable for a land locked nation. << these are all important. the last part may depend upon WHEN we are talking about ... I think they would want to not send troops on suicide missions, so they would be very careful ... but the Ethengarians can't protect everything. >> The time period I am thinking of is post Wrath. In that frame, the elves are declinining in Glantri. Kol's Noids are making a presense. Whereas the Ethie cannot be everywhere, neither can the Glantrians. Getting to the Ethie camps would be difficult and costly. And given the expanse of the steppes, such incursions would be doubly dangerous. <> Yeah. I used AD&D cause the rules book was handy and the info was within one text. I have the Basic, Expert and Companion Sets but did not feel like digging them out. Okay, I was too lazy to go upstairs and get them. >Yep. Combat would be nasty. The Glantrian invaders would find life difficult. >The steppes are difficult. Where as the Ethie could fall back and subside from >the land and herds, the Glantrians would have to bring supplies in. Even fodder could be a problem without a mass burning by the Ethie. The glantrian >mounts could be ill at ease at consuming the wild grasses. true. i wouldn't imagine sustained missions at all ... if anything the logical way for the Glantrians to do this would be to build a series of forts and stock them with provisions ... but that means an attempt at sustained conquest, and I can't see it working through all of the plains without control of the whole Streel river trade route, which means controlling the Broken Lands and Darokin ... what might be more likely would be limited expansion, say taking all the land west of the Dol Anur...>> Nit pick time- Forts require building materials. And since the steppes are virtually devoid of trees (wood forts) building supplies would have to be shipped in. Once again logstics. Not only the building supplies but also the supply convoys. Forts are pretty cool, but the terrain allows manuevering and subsequent attacks on these supply columns. But yes, I agree total victory is not feasible for the Glantrians. To attempt to would condemn them to the trap Hitler arranged for the German people, complete victory or death. A good scenario (both Glantri and Germany) would have been a quick assault to set objectives. Then sue for peace. A treaty enables the keeping of most of what has been gained. For RW Germany I would suggest the Dneiper River. For KW Glantri, I'd suggest crossing the river and getting the DDC involved. Depending on results either scenario could work. <> Yep, not only the terrain, but also the people. The oppressed Boldavians may take a shine to the Ethie if treated well. Sniffing yak fat is alot better than sustaining the larders of "you know who" and his undead band of merry men (and ladies, never forget the ladies). <> But pig headed Jaggar wants war. And he wants it bad. And since such a war would cause chaos, Dolores would be quite supportive. Maybe even too supportive blunting the usual sharpness of Jaggar's mind. In that want certain items may be placed upon secondary tiers. Passion often rules, but rarely does it rule wisely. I disagree about Jaggar's veiw of the mundaner troops. Desptie being mundaners, they are still part of his army, his baby so to speak. I am sure he is quite aware of their importance in protecting the mages. BTW the "nonspellcasting peasant infantry" are not peasants. Soldiers in the Grand Army are well paid and well trained and voluntary. This is a proffessional standing army, not a mob of conscripts. << Yes, it does depend quite a great deal on the politics ... that's why diplomacy is so interesting. I confess I hadn't thought of the mercenary issue ... any GAZ 12 info on how much gold the Khan has lying about? another issue of course which someone brought up earlier is the air power thing ... flying boats WOULD tip the balance one way or the other. as for Ethengar-allied infantry, dwarves would make an excellent addition ... the problem is that then they would have to be closely linked to the cavalry arm and this would give Jaggar a lot less of a disadvantage in terms of maneuver ... but it might still work.>> Whoa we agree on something :-) I am unsure of the monetary wealth of the Khan. But I am sure mercs will not work for a yak or two as payment. Mercs may not be a financial issue. I was thinking of displaced Alphatians. Alphatians who were the soldiers in the Great War. And who lost home and hearth to those Glantrians. To adlib South Park "Oh no, they killed Alphatia. THOSE BASTARDS!!!" But an interesting point. Without troop compatibility, the alliance for infantry can backlash. More likely dwarven infantry would be most useful in pitched combat inside Glantri. On the steppes they would fall short as they are out of their normal element. >I'll continue to meddle in this and come up with a scenario or two or three that could prove interesting. I have to reconfig the Glantrian side to account >for the loss of the Erewan and the use of noids. I'll probably toss in Rockhome as Ethie allies. <> I'll definitely be post Wrath. And like Operation Hydra it will be a theoretical scenario. Unlike Hydra I may forego much of the explanation of certain political events to save time and bandwidth. It is purely theoretical and besides, things got pretty heated then. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 18:48:12 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar I'm sorry, but here I just have to throw in my two pence worth on this Glantri/Ethengar thing. I'll apologise in advance for being corrupted by AD+D and Glantri Kingdom of Magic - but... I think people have been overlooking just what an 18th level (or 24th level in the case of Jaggar) mage can do. After comparing the Ethengar gazetteer with the Glantri box, the answer is simple - stalemate. Historically the Mongols did kick ass across the entire planet. Sadly, when Genghis died his empire fell apart. Now how long do you think the Great Khan is going to last with people like Jaggar and Morphail gunning for him? In words of one syllable - not long. Within 10 minutes of Ethengar attacking Glantri, Moglai Khan could be an interesting adornment on the end of a Glantrian pike in Glantri City. If the Glantrians are willing to wait a little bit, do a bit of diplomacy with some of the other khans, the Ethies could be made to back off pretty darn quick. (In case your wondering, I'm thinking of spells like A Summons One Dares Not Deny and Pierce Any Shield...). The Princes are, of course, assassinatable too, but probably with more difficulty - and there are more warlike Princes than Great Khans. I reckon that Glantri is generally an insular country, so they arent going to start on Ethengar. I also reckon that assassinating other heads of state is Not On, but I agree that if there was a war the Glantrians arent going to pull punches. So if the Great Khan wants to keep his head, he probably isnt going to start on Glantri in a big way. Militarily both sides have the advantage on their own turf, so that combined with 9th level spells would cause an uneasy peace (kinda like the current situation...). If the Ethies are set on world domination, a military invasion is Not The Way - at least not on its own. What the Ethies need is some Great Diplomat/Spy/Assassin type, to set all the Princes against one another and take advantage of the Glantrians internal conflicts - perhaps an Ethie sympathiser in the Council of Princes. I think that Ethengar could "take" Glantri, but only through some sort of subterfuge - incite a civil war (Followers of the Claymore would be up for that). In the meantime perhaps the Ethies should temporarily look in other directions to strengthen their power base - the Heldannic Territories? perhaps even the Norse countries. Attacking Glantri with Mystara as it is would be a Very Bad Move. Anyway - I hope that Ethie sympathisers dont tear me into small pieces for this attack on their ability to defeat Glantri. I reckon they can beat Glantri - but only through some sly trickery. A military attack on Glantri simply cannot result in a win the way things currently stand. ROB The more I study the more I learn The more I learn the more I know The more I know the more I forget The more I forget the less I know. So why study? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #220 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Thursday, April 16 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 221 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re[6]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World Re: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance (was PC1 and Alfheim) Re: Re[4]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World Re: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance (was PC1 and Alfheim) Re: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing Re: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing [MYSTARA] - Dave Arneson is amongst us [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general debate Re: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general debate Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Mages - and war wizards [MYSTARA] - A Glantri lover Re: Re[4]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 14:41:55 EST From: Neal Daskal Subject: Re[6]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World I have been following with interest the discussion of an Ethie/Glantri war. Ethengar is on my list of saddest failures by TSR to develop interesting material, but I think the reasons for that were inter-author (Aaron Alston, Bruce Heard, etc. etc. with Jim Bambra for the Ethies) politics rather than Known World game mechanics. In any event I went home and checked the specifications for the armies. I've said before that Ethie would do best against Glantri if run with BattleSystem instead of War Machine and even then that the BS modifications from the Ethie Gazetteer would help more. However a review of the various forces shows NO casters in an Ethie Horde, while Glantri forces include an Elite Unit of 120 3rd level mages. The Glantri mundaners carry bows, are level 2 or above, and in some cases also Elite. The number and level of mages (240 sleep spells!) and the presense of Glantri bows and Elite units cuts heavily into the Ethie's advantages with the BS mods. My conclusion is that TSR (i.e. Aaron and Bruce) designed Glantri to be Ethie-proof. A DM who wished to run a conquering Ethie campaign would either have to mechanically weaken Glantri, strengthen Ethie, or pick another target. I'd go after Darokin. Heldann is another possibility, but again Aaron strengthened Heldann considerably from a military standpoint with the clerical Knights and their warbirds so that they could play their designed role in the War of Wrath. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 15:35:32 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing << I know this! 17,402 Mystaras still depend on D&D while 21,596 Mystaras depend on AD&D. 3;D> >> Damn! I hoped that it were vice versa. :-) Jamuga Khan "The solution is simple: We have simply to destroy around 5000 Mystaras!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 15:35:34 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance (was PC1 and Alfheim) << With the refugees accumulating in NACE holdings, they do have a need. Sooner or later, the influx will take its toll on the NACE kingdoms. >> Sorry, but can't agree on that! I don't say that it can't come true but it isn't necessary. These soldiers might be so tired of war that they prefer to settle down and carve out a new civil existence. And I have said it before, I say it again and probably I will say it again sooner or later: Bellissaria is almost as big as Alphatia but has fewer inhabiitants than Thyatis City. There's really many room for this veterans. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 15:35:33 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: Re[4]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World << "kopf" >> It means "head". Exactly it would be "Schweinekopf", but I must admit that I've never seen this word used to a human. OTOH German is very flexible. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 17:26:18 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing << And another thought- If Etienne regained Immortality then it would be as a 1st level Immortal, not his pre Wrath level. Could explain the lack of activity. Getting his stuff back in order as an Initiate. >> IIRC under the way it was described in the module, if he remained an Immortal, he would stay as he was before the incident. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 00:25:54 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance (was PC1 and Alfheim) In a message dated 98-04-15 10:35:20 EDT, Alex295@aol.com writes: >The Alphatians still topside are dispersed and resentful. Still loaded for bbear, these refugees should sooner or later set out to carve a new empire. I >have always stated that Alphatia never conquered the eniter world because they had no need. With the refugees accumulating in NACE holdings, they do have a need. Sooner or later, the influx will take its toll on the NACE kingdoms. >Expansion for living space will become critical. It is either that or even more Alphatians in Karameikos. That is something I do not wish to see. There >is enough Alphatian influence present already. Anymore and soon Alphatian elements will try to control the Karameikans. There is one obvious place for the displaced Alphatians to go -- Norwold. After all, they did once own the place and have a good claim to it. All they have to do is kick out the Heldanners -- for which King Ericall by now would be most grateful. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 00:25:59 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing In a message dated 98-04-15 17:47:15 EDT, Inconu@aol.com writes: >IIRC under the way it was described in the module, if he remained an Immortal, he would stay as he was before the incident. As I recall, "Mark of Amber" postulated three possibilities: 1) The PCs do everything right -- Etienne is Rad again, but has learned his lesson and is much more humane than before. 2) The PCs have middling success -- Etienne is mortal but may regain Immortality. If he does, he would be a 1st level Immortal. His character is somewhat improved. 3) The PCs really foul up -- Etienne is mortal and has no hope of regaining Immortality. His personality is unchanged from pre-Wrath. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 00:25:49 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing In a message dated 98-04-15 09:32:43 EDT, jdaly@friend.ly.net writes: >If you use "Mark of Amber" he is reverted to an earlier time without his IImmortal powers. To my mind this is his chance to earn it all a second time and become an Old One as per the Immortal rules. There is one slight problem with that scenario -- it is believed that a person who wishes to become an Old One must become a Hierarch, not just an Immortal, twice. Rad has not yet become a Hierarch even once. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 16:09:47 EST From: "Shawn Stanley" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Dave Arneson is amongst us Hello All Although I am not usually one to bring up such messages it seems that Mr Dave Arneson is on the web with the rest of us. He even has his own webpage at http://www.geocities.com/~blackmoor1/ which although isn't much at the moment (and has some problems with it) could prove to be a good site one day. The trouble is that things *never* get better, they just stay the same, only more so. - Terry Pratchett, Eric stan http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 03:03:52 EDT From: BoBo II Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general debate Just throwing in some thoughts . . . Yes, the Horde on the plains has a huge "home field advantage", but it might not be enough. (Let me babble on before flipping out, oh Great Khan) I was never much of a mage-playing gamer, but I ran a Glantri campaign for my brother and some friends and I learned a new appreciation for how magic can make you rethink a standard military engagement. If one side has a great advantage in that area, barring a great lack in others, it can tip a battle as readily as technological disparity in the RW.(according to PWA's, Glantri troops are Renn.-based vs. Bronze-based Horde.) Its not enough in and of itself, but. . . with good intelligence(scrying, invisible spying, familiars, summoned/charmed creatures), mobility (flying spells/items, teleport, summoned/charmed mounts, polymorphed infiltrators) and delivery (well placed area of effects that kill/wound/or harass) could make the steppe as deadly a killing ground as the desert was for the Iraqi forces in the Gulf. I'm not trying to stretch the analogy to far, and I'm not talking about a stand up fight, but the Horde will be very glad of Clerical control weather to keep this air-superiority (even without "skyships", though even though Blackhill is gone, all the house of Silverston wasn't killed, and they could certainly know how) grounded. * * * Some random thoughts not brought up in the general debate: The Glantrians have some Alphatian roots and surely studied Alphatian tactics in the recent war, so they can exploit this "techno-advantage," mobilize it's magic item industry, and put real firepower even in the hands of low-level mages, a la the Imperial Boltmen and Dispellers of the Imperial Navy. This might also be the job of students at the Great School ("Today, Class, you and your lab partners will be helping some of the grad students prepare these potions of flying for the boys and girls at the front . . . Pay attention there in the back . . .") The Gaz. lists all sorts of facets of Glantrian society that have very serious military application i.e.. monster handlers' syndicate, Aalbanian magically driven "machines", Movers' guild. . . What happens when a couple M21+ wizards start targeting The Great Khan, or any individual, with invisible stalkers and well-phrased wishes? Hmmm . . . Consider that every graduate of the GSoM "should" be 9th level and you have plenty of firepower to be conscripted. Also, these young guns might be looking to establish themselves in the eyes of the council and the indepedant mayhem these aspiring nobles could cause is truly frightening. Sure, many of these unorganized efforts will have mages overstep themselves and get killed/captured, but the survivors will have proven their toughness. . . Much has been made of the War Machine stat's for Ethengar and Glantri but I throw this observation in for good measure: according to the PWA's, the Banners of the Glantrian army has a 4 standard fighters-to-1 war wizard ratio. (attention all "Ethengar would crush 'em hand to hand" proponents). But what strikes me as odd is that they are organizationally broken down into separate units. Does this strike anyone else as a little odd? Are they to good to associate with commoners? Are they held in reserve as fire support and artillery( a la Warcraft)? The Alphatian listings have spell casters mixed in as officers and this seems much more logical/efficient, as you get the advantage of mixing in the impact of limited range spells like entangle, hold person or confusion (DnD for now, AD&D gets even scarier in close). This idea of a magical "officer class" fits in with the societal bias of a magocracy to me. The gulf between the officers and their troops would be a weakness to be exploited, perhaps. . .(fragging, anyone?) Well, those are some thoughts to add to the mix. As I don't own the AD&D Glantri setting, I've never seen the war wizard kit. Any details out there? Plus I don't have my Wrath box with me so can someone help me figure out what happened to let Clerics into Glantri. Who do they worship? And how does the State philosophy of Glantri deal with the power released by the Immortals in Wrath? Enough, way to much, for now. "Keep Mystara Alive" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 06:44:40 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing << As I recall, "Mark of Amber" postulated three possibilities: Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 15:02:50 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #221 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com 1) The PCs do everything right -- Etienne is Rad again, but has learned his lesson and is much more humane than before. Yup, and this was the scenario that ended up coming through IMC. Has anyone else run this module? - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 10:25:33 +0000 (GMT) From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general >Just throwing in some thoughts . . . >What happens when a couple M21+ wizards start targeting The Great Khan, or any individual, with invisible stalkers and well-phrased wishes? Hmmm . . . Wishes are only available to 36th level casters, and even then only if they have an 18 Int (wis if cleric). I don't think there are any 36th level MU's in Glantri. On the other hand, the seven secret crafts give some mages a lot more power (especially the elementalists. A Pheonix or two in the right place can be quite scary - - IMC, a phenoix or two destroyed most of the Alphatian Sky Fleet in Aasla...) >Much has been made of the War Machine stat's for Ethengar and Glantri but I throw this observation in for good measure: according to the PWA's, the Banners of the Glantrian army has a 4 standard fighters-to-1 war wizard ratio. (attention all "Ethengar would crush 'em hand to hand" proponents). But what strikes me as odd is that they are organizationally broken down into separate units. Does this strike anyone else as a little odd? Are they to good to associate with commoners? Are they held in reserve as fire support and artillery( a la Warcraft)? Well, they're in the same division, just different banner. And yeah, it would perhaps be better to mix the troops about. Maybe not though, archers were in a different unit from foot soldiers etc. so I'm not sure about that one. Also back to another point, as third level MU-s with the Spell Combination ability from the great school, each soldier could fire 4 magic missles. And have one hangning around all the time, since I think they last until fired. 4d6+4 is a fair amount of damage for each soldier before the heavy cavalry comes in. Oh, and the Mongosl did use cavalry, they didn't have plate armour (they used a chain vest over a silk shirt), but they did have big lances which were most effective at mowing down foot soldiers the way any other cavalry would. (wonder if the Glantrians developed Shiltrons....) >Well, those are some thoughts to add to the mix. As I don't own the AD&D Glantri setting, I've never seen the war wizard kit. Any details out there? Plus I don't have my Wrath box with me so can someone help me figure out what happened to let Clerics into Glantri. Who do they worship? And how does the State philosophy of Glantri deal with the power released by the Immortals in Wrath? Clerics were allowed in to help fight the plague that came from across the Steppes. I'd wonder about them being allowed to stay after the War though... gordon http://seija.ucd.ie/dnd/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 10:00:05 EST From: Neal Daskal Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general debate >Much has been made of the War Machine stat's for Ethengar and Glantri but I throw this observation in for good measure: according to the PWA's, the Banners of the Glantrian army has a 4 standard fighters-to-1 war wizard ratio. (attention all "Ethengar would crush 'em hand to hand" proponents). But what strikes me as odd is that they are organizationally broken down into separate units. Does this strike anyone else as a little odd? Are they to good to associate with commoners? Are they held in reserve as fire support and artillery( a la Warcraft)? The mages are in separate units so they can cast their spells in BattleSystem. BS requires that all characters/creatures in a unit be homogeneous. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 13:27:30 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar << Anyway - I hope that Ethie sympathisers dont tear me into small pieces for this attack on their ability to defeat Glantri. I reckon they can beat Glantri - but only through some sly trickery. A military attack on Glantri simply cannot result in a win the way things currently stand. ROB >> No, you're just another of these damn Glantri lovers. Has anybody noticed that this unimportant little country has had probably the strongest support in whole Mystara? Very sad, this thing. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 18:50:38 +0000 (GMT) From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar >No, you're just another of these damn Glantri lovers. Has anybody noticed that this unimportant little country has had probably the strongest support in whole Mystara? I'd've thought it was more Alphatia that had the strongest support and it's poor Thyatis that seems to get the short end of the stick, but there you go... >Very sad, this thing. Could be worse, the Alphatians could be invading the Steppe :) :) gordon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 19:33:00 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Mages - and war wizards Concerning this "you can only cast wish at 36th level and there are no 36th level mages in Glantri" thing. Maybe not, in AD&D (Jaggar is 24th). But in AD+D you only need to be 18th level to cast wishes. (come to think of it, in the olde D+D stuff I think you only need to be level 18). If its D+D levels check out the PWAs. OK, the elves could only cast 5th level spells (good - damn elven scum... :), like Carnelia being level 10. Jaggar = level 30 Morphail = level 28 Harald = 27 Dolores = 36 (but she isnt going to help) Urmahid = 19 Brannart = 33 (Moglai Khan, for comparison) = 33 Fighter Jherek = 30 Juliana = 30 All pretty tough customers. And concerning wish - wish isnt all it's cracked up to be. Plenty of other gross high level magics to deal out some heinous punishment upon thine enemies. You don't need wish when you've got some AD+D mage firepower! (I dont particularly agree with incredibly hard mages either, especially in a campaign world like Mystara. In my opinion they should all go the the Realms and hang out with Mystra and her Chosen). Anyway, all this is irrelevant. Surely anybody who has perused a few high level magicks will know how army stopping a high level spellslinger is. Mass invisibility is probably the crudest high level (7 or 8 i believe?) spell, and can affect a large number of troops. Surely this will even the odds somewhat (it seems that the consensus is that the Glantrians will have the advantage over the Ethies in an ambush, up close situation). And stuff like massmorph is even lower level. Conjured beasties doing recon (or killing Ethies, if immune to nonmagical weapons)... Invisible armies... Meteor swarm vs castles... Jaggar the Great Wyrm dragon, thanks to his dracology abilities (and I bet if you read any book that has a very large dragon attack an army (bar Smaug, but he sucked :) the army is in deep trouble... Illusory armies to draw Ethie bow fire, while the mages sneak up... All unfortunate stuff. I like Mystara because of the realism, and the real life parallels, so I dont really support world shattering stuff like this - at least not when it seems every other country is capable of doing it. However, such is Mystara - and such is Glantri. On the Ethie magical support side - if I was staging this sort of campaign, I would highly recommend the Shaman book released by TSR some time ago now (together with Chronomancer). The shamans in it sound very similar to those described in the Ethie gazetteer. In such a war I would probably say that the Ethie spirits and Glantrian high level mages cancel each other out, leaving way for the Troops... and a bit of strategy. Incidentally, concerning this war wizard kit in G:KoM. In terms of game stats it is a remarkable weak kit, considering (being used to Savage Coast Inheritors and Swashbucklers and the like.) All it lets wizards do combat wise is ride horses well (ie a free proficiency slot) and use shortswords (big deal! still not a match for a fighter up close and personal). While I think of it - concerning training (a bit of a digression). Looking at the War Machine rules, its clear that training is responsible for the majority of the final BR. A group of peasant 0 level humans with hoes, trained and on duty for a year, will whip an army of 5th level warrior rabble. Here the Ethies would have the advantage - as the steppes are a bit of a rough place, and the Ethies have their fair share of noids to kill, the Ethies will be training for a lot of the time. On the other hand, barring Jaggars banners, I seriously doubt that the Glantrians are particularly well trained, so I would have thought that their BR is overstated. In raw game statistics, to get the really high BRs the army needs to train with its leader for 20 weeks. Now, looking at the Glantrian banners, I see commanders like Brannart McGregor, Morphail and Malachie, who I see unlikely to be spending vast amounts of time training the troops (it surprises me that Brannart even has a banner!). Even Urmahid Krinagar seems to spend most his spare time hunting tigers. And I would assume that armies "go stale" after a while if their training is neglected. Maintaining an elite force is a round the clock job. I compare the Ethies to Clan Red Arrow of Alfheim - they train in the army all the time! That is What They Do (maybe to a lesser extent for the Ethies than the elves, but you see my point). This is why I reckon the Ethies have a chance. 10 of the 16 Banners of Glantri would crumple like wet cardboard in a fight with the Ethies, leaving Jaggars 6 to carry the can. If you assume that the Ethengarian army is roughly equivalent to the Glantrian, they cannot win. They are more backward both technologically and magically, they have about half the population of Glantri, they have a weak economy (where do they get all those nice shiny steel swords which amp the BR from?). The only way that they could win is by saying that they are a warrior race, and the Glantrians are not (hence the ramble on training above). IF YOU HAVE READ THIS FAR, YOU MUST NOW BE VERY BORED. Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 18:52:27 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: [MYSTARA] - A Glantri lover ><< Anyway - I hope that Ethie sympathisers dont tear me into small pieces >for this attack on their ability to defeat Glantri. I reckon they can beat >Glantri - but only through some sly trickery. A military attack on Glantri >simply cannot result in a win the way things currently stand. >ROB >> >No, you're just another of these damn Glantri lovers. Has anybody noticed that this unimportant little country has had probably the strongest support in whole Mystara? >Very sad, this thing. >Jamuga Khan Nahh, I'm a Savage Coast man. But I consider Glantri vs Ethengar to be somewhat similar to Herath vs Ator. Ator may be packed with hard lizardman, but Herath is packed with spellcasting aranea, and my money is on the aranea. And having to DM some of these spellcasting aranea I know, sadly, full well how game breaking a high level mage can be... (incidentally I also reckon that if Herath was next to Glantri rather than on the other side of the planet Glantri would lose... lol). ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 12:01:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: Re[4]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World kopf means head. schweinkopf means "pighead" ... and Jaggar is certainly prone (even in English) to pigheadedness. m@2 "You're not really in love with yourself - you're just in love with the idea of being in love with yourself" - said to me by one of the two little fellas who hang out on either of my shoulders ... I can't remember which ... On Wed, 15 Apr 1998, Kaviyd wrote: >In a message dated 98-04-14 21:06:16 EDT, mlevy@orion.oac.uci.edu writes: >>Jaggar may be a schweinkopf sometimes >A query for those of us who don't know German -- What is a "schweinkopf"? I know that "pig" is in there as "schwein", but I have no idea about the "kopf" >part. >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #221 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 08:58:03 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #222 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Friday, April 17 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 222 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general [MYSTARA] - Ethengar Vs. Brun (was PC1) Re: [MYSTARA] - PC1 and Alfheim Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance (was PC1 and Alfheim) [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Elemental Opposition and Dominance Re: [MYSTARA] - A Glantri lover Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general debate [MYSTARA] - Mystara and the RPGA (Forwarded from Bruce) Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general debate Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Mages - and war wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Mages - and war wizards [MYSTARA] - X2 to sell Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Skills and Powers Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance (was PC1 and Alfheim) Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Mages - and war wizards ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 20:25:52 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing At 00.17 15/04/98 EDT, Kaviyd wrote: >In a message dated 98-04-14 22:47:04 EDT, spymaster@gamesnet.com writes: >>What would happen if the Shadow Elf Shamans ever completed Rafiel's copy ooof the Nucleus? That was never covered in WoTI, and I haven't seen anything on that line since the Shadow Elves Gazetteer. >A very good question -- and one that I think should greatly influence events in the post-Wrath era. Kaviyd, you don't imagine how right you are.... ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com DM in City Of The Stars - Mystaran Almanac Assistant Leader of Privateers - Student of Aerospace Enginnering Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 19:24:02 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general Wishes are only available to 36th level casters, and even then only if they have an 18 Int (wis if cleric). I don't think there are any 36th level MU's in Glantri. On the other hand, the seven secret Actually it depends on which time period you are in. First of all, Etienne is 36th level (once he gets back in 1012AC). Additionally, due to XP gains, Jaggar, Brannart, Dolores (though she won't reveal this), and Jherek are all 36th level. ************ Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 13:48:54 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar Vs. Brun (was PC1) ><< Highly unlikely, The Ethengar abhor all types of technology, blame that >on the Glantri Incident, where a device exploded, because of an elven blunder, creating the Broken lands >> >And ships, built by shamans? if you read Champions of Mystara's manual for building flying ships, i don't think that an Immortal representing the Earth wouldn't want something in the air, and it does require a mage's spellcraft ><< I like the second idea better since Geas are Priest prayers, and why not >have, as an idea get the Khanate to develop faith magic like the FRs? >Funny! "Quest" is a clerical spell, and "Geas" is a magic-user's one. Jamuga Khan Yo Jam, it not like i carry my Player's handbook to college everyday to answer the E-mail, by the way, I'm on Spring Break, reply to me on Sunday. Besides, i made a mistake, no need to crucify me. Anyways were would the Ethie get the Wood for their Skycraft, and what would the design look like, will it be shiplike, like the Alphatians, will it look like a animal, like the Heldanners, or will it be geometric, like Azimuth's ship(again, the mage's name is a guess)? "Playing football is like making love. once you score, it makes all the trying all worthwhile." -Chef, Southpark Football Episode. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 13:57:31 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - PC1 and Alfheim ><< Interesting. I always wondered about a clerical designed and constructed >skyship. >> >Two points: They Ethengars have magic-users (hakomons) who could do the work, but a common task would be more appropiate. >And we already have clerical designed and constructed skyships on Mystara: The Heldannic warbirds! When i read princess ark, it was said that the Heldannics had captive mage's build Skyships for them, then they were killed so as to keep the secret of their manufacturing of the Warbird. Later accounts, of the Princess Ark, while Flying over Hule, or Villaverde, proved that the Warbirds were powered by an Immortal Artifact that gives them flight, and that removing the artifact, while hold the person aloft, but the Warship will sink like stone. "Playing Football is like Making Love, once you score, it makes all the trying Worthwhile" -Chef, South Park, Football Episode. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 14:47:40 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance (was PC1 and Alfheim) >While Ethengar probably would be hard pressed to conquer the Known World alone, it would not be beyond the realm of possibility for them to >become part of a "Great Entropic Alliance" that very well could do so. The instigator of this alliance would, of course, be Hosadus, the Master >of Hule. He would approach the nations where Clerics hold a great deal of power with the idea of banding together against the "godless" nations. >Ylaruam would be the first ally, even though they abhor the Sphere of Entropy -- but they would be persuaded by the "enemy of my enemy" argument, as would Rockhome. >In Ethengar, the worship of Cretia would come to dominate the faiths of Yamuga and Tubak. The (new?) ruler of the Ethengars would be wholeheartedly committed to the cause. >The Heldannic Knights will eventually realize that they have been serving Thanatos and not Vanya, as their spells have been cut off. Many (most?) of them eventually regain their spells by turning to the direct worship of Thanatos. However, they keep this secret to themselves to avoid alienating their Ylari allies and alarming any potential enemies. >It would not take much to sway the Shadow Elves to the worship of Atzanteotl -- if that move is successful, then they join in as well. >King Alebane in the Broken Lands would be another natural recruit, if the Master bothers. >Since the Master has already tried and failed to conquer Darokin once, he is reluctant to try another direct assault. But his agents work hard to subvert Darokinian society -- eventually they succeed in intensifying conflicts among the merchant houses to the point that Darokin becomes embroiled in serious civil disorder. >Then the Alliance strikes. The Master takes over western Darokin, Ylaruam takes Selenica, and the Shadow Elves and the goblinoids lay waste to the middle section of Darokin. Meanwhile, Ethengar invades the Northern Reaches and/or Glantri, and the Heldanners use their airships to provide support wherever they are needed. >While all this is going on those nations who are not part of the Alliance are facing their own problems. Dolores, Morphail, and perhaps Kol support the Entropics and keep Glantri in too much chaos for it to do more than try to defend itself against the invading Ethengars. Thyatis also has its own problems -- maybe they just started Alex's "Operation Hydra"? The NACE, Ierendi, Wendar, and the Atruaghin plateau can safely be ignored -- they are sufficiently removed from the areas of interest that they pose no threat. Sind is still occupied by Hulean forces and by this point is well on its way to being assimilated into Hule. Resistance to the Entropic Alliance would be based in Karameikos and the Five Shires, which would become the next targets of the Alliance once Darokin is subdued. >How would this scenario end? Unless somebody can think of an interesting new twist, it seems that it ends up being a rehash of the "Red Arrow, Black Shield" X10 module -- the big bad Master very nearly conquers the Known World but is stopped at the last minute by a band of Heroic Adventurers. Please -- somebody suggest some complications that could make the final outcome a bit more interesting! Since the year 1012, Rockhome has become very isolationist, they will not be involved in any war, unless invaded. The Ethie's would have their 'loyalties' paid, and told by the Darokians about land ripe for explansion in the Nagpuri Province, as well as the Broken Land's Black Hills, of course, the Ethie hate the Heldannic Knight with a Passion, and not join in any alliance with them, unless it a short one, and both have a common goal. And finally, the Chancellor Mauntea, can find a way to 'Influence' the Prince's council of Glantri, since Prince Jagger is right now Opposing Princess Dolores at all costs. Meanwhile, the promise of the putting the World Games, in Ierendei would definitely draw Ierendei into attacking the Sind Coast, while King Stefan would appeal to Emperor Thincol, or Eusebuis of Thyatis to Stop another Empire from expanding, how that for a crimp in your plans. 'playing football is like making love. Once you score, it makes all the trying worthwhile' - Chef, South Park, Football Episode. Sorry, if it got mailed twice. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 15:15:41 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Elemental Opposition and Dominance >In a message dated 98-04-09 15:55:22 EDT, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no writes: >>But isn't the opositional nature of the elements what make them what they >>are? If Fire doesn't oppose Water, will it then be Fire? Ofcourse, if you >>are not talking about the nature of the elements, but merely their location, your argument may be more valid, but I doubt that that would >>have such a great impact on Prime. >>Comments? >Fire doesn't oppose Water in the Mystara universe -- it is dominated by it. >Regardless of the arrangements of the elements, all of the elements are hostile to one another in various ways. But the circle of dominance is a >major point in the philosophy behind Mystara, and it affects many other areas as well (such as the associated Immortal Spheres). The result is a world that is far more dynamic than the standard AD&D worlds, which tend to be fairly stable as long as the gods behave themselves. (Fortunately >for the excitement of the players, they haven't behaved themselves!) >And what is this circle? Fire dominates Earth (probably by burning it). >Earth dominates Air (by clogging it?). Air dominates Water (by dispersing >it). Water dominates Fire (by extinguishing it). So whereas the Elemental >planes of the standard AD&D universe are fairly static, those of the Mystara universe are ever changing -- each element is continuously gaining ground from the element that it dominates and losing ground to the element that it is dominated by. >And this circle gives great power to those Primes who know about it -- if you have access to the powers of all four elements, then you have at any time a weapon that will dominate any foe who depends on the powers of any single element. You must look at things in a broad spectrum, the battle going between the four elements, Earth, Wind/Air, Fire, and Water, is as constant as the Blood War of the Lower Planes, and on these Elemental Borders you are most likely to find these Paraelemental Planes (such as the Water/Fire Border known as the Paraelemental plane of Steam, or the Quasielemental plane plane of lightning on the Water/Air border.) These Quasi- and Para- Elemental are spawned by the conflict zone within the four prime elemental planes, or the border of the planes Fire may not oppose water in the Mystaran Philosophy, but they might have melded together to get the Paraelemental Plane of Steam. so anything is possible in the AD&D/D&D multiverse. 'i killed my grandpa, when he asked me, Billy' Stan's Grandfather, South Park. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 19:18:22 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Glantri lover Not all of us are Glantri lovers! It's an interesting country that I like but if I had my choice... Alphatia would be sitting in the outer world and we'd have a big ole Glantri Lake - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 02:24:49 +0100 From: "alistairhall" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general debate >Well, those are some thoughts to add to the mix. As I don't own the AD&D Glantri setting, I've never seen the war wizard kit. Any details out there? glantrian military wizard although glantrian military wizards often begin their careers in the great school,they do not keep the benefits of the standard glantrian wizard. leaving the school to focus on a more martial field of study in the grand army means they lose these benefits. as with the glantrian wizard kit,characters from realms outside glantri can choose this kit,as long as they have learned the local magical skills. requirements: glantrian military wizards of either sex must be human,elven,or half-elven,and possess a strength of at least 11. although non specialised mages seem more common among the ranks of glantri's military,specialty wizards may use this kit,too. most specialists hail from the invocation school,although no school is prohibited. description: the commanders of the armed forces hand pick glantrian military wizards(usually from the great school of magic),training them in the arts of war and military organization. they serve in the grand army as the first banner:mounted units of 120 wizards that commanders use in pivotal roles in all military actions, defensive or offensive. weapon proficiencies: although they gain no new proficiency slots,glantrian military wizards may choose the short sword,hand axe,or mace as weapons, in addition to those normally available to wizards. nonweapon proficiencies: bonus-riding(either airborne or land based). required-heraldry. suggested-weapon-smithing. Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 08:58:03 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #222 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com armour and equipment: as for the wizard class(see the players handbook,chapter3:player character classes). special benefits: glantrian military wizards belong to the grand army of glantri(or used to).players can choose active duty or "veteran" status for their characters. characters still serving a term with the military gain a number of social benefits. although they have more rigorous responsibilities than their fellows and can devote less time to studying and researching,they remain well respected by glantrian society(+1 bonus to reaction rolls when encountering other glantrians). in addition,they recieve housing,food, and a government salary of 50gp per level each month. there is also a 5% cumulative chance per experience level gained in play that superiors will promote the character to sergeant,and after that,to captain. pay increases by 30% per promotion. veteran glantrian military wizards no longer gain the financial rewards they once did,but they no longer bear the responsibilities(listed below),either.they still enjoy the +1 bonus to reactions from other glantrians when they display insignia from their military service. special limitations: as mentioned above,being a part of the military takes time away from studying and researching,as well as adventuring. assume that these characters must spend fully half their time in training or performing a military duty. this on duty time increases to 75% during periods of war(thankfully rare). while groups do not need to play out characters' military duties unrelated to the campaign,these obligations do limit the number of adventures that glantrian military wizards can take part in. in times of war,groups should handle characters' military duties in the playing session,to rightfully award experience points and to bring to life the dangers accompanying armed conflict. wartime activities can also serve as springboards to adventures for the entire adventuring party. since you asked. jobo *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 20:34:42 -0600 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mystara and the RPGA (Forwarded from Bruce) [this message bounced to me because it has a majordomo code in the body of the message, which majordomo scans all posts for. Very annoying, I know. The command has had a "_" stragetically placed in it to prevent this again.] Just a quick note to let you know that I have spoken with Robert Wiese of RPGA regarding their support of Mystara among the RPGA network. Robert should be contacting the MML fairly soon with some suggestions. He may do so via Leroy since Robert isn't sure yet whether he wants to subscribe to the MML quite yet. More on this later. Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 00:00:23 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general In a message dated 98-04-16 07:44:21 EDT, gordon.mccormick@ucd.ie writes: >Wishes are only available to 36th level casters, and even then only iif they have an 18 Int (wis if cleric). I don't think there are any 36th level MU's in Glantri. On the other hand, the seven secret crafts give some mages a lot more power (especially the elementalists. A Pheonix or two in the right place can be quite scary - IMC, a phenoix or two destroyed most of the Alphatian Sky Fleet in Aasla...) The use of Wishes does heavily depend on which rules system you are using. In AD&D any wizard capable of casting 9th level spells could conceivably cast this spell -- but the fact that it ages the caster would deter all but the most long-lived (or immortal) from doing so. In D&D, the minimum level for casting wish is level 33. By either set of rules, Prince Etienne would certainly be capable of casting this spell -- after all, he has been seen to cast this spell at least twice. But in G:KoM, no wizard is listed as knowing this spell. In Gaz 3, however, no spell lists are given, but the lich Prince Brannart meets the D&D qualifications for learning this spell. Also, given the amount of XPs that Jaggar is likely to have earned in WotI, Jaggar may be capable of casting this spell by the post-Wrath period. But for various reasons I can't see any of them going crazy with this spell. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 01:52:41 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general debate More info on the "war wizard" -- if you have access to the "Complete Wizard's Handbook" but not to G:KoM, the Military Wizard kit in the former source is quite similar to the kit in the latter source. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 01:52:36 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general In a message dated 98-04-16 17:01:09 EDT, solmyr@kolumbus.fi writes: >Additionally, due to XP gains, >Jaggar, Brannart, Dolores (though she won't reveal this), and Jherek are all >36th level. But Jherek is one point of intelligence short of the required 18, according to all available sources. Still, he is not one to trifle with.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 01:52:34 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Mages - and war wizards In a message dated 98-04-16 15:09:48 EDT, rmunch@easynet.co.uk writes: >Dolores = 36 (but she isnt going to help) Oops -- there is another potential "wisher" that I missed. But given how the GMs in most games I have played interpret Wishes, I am hard put to see how Wishes can be used offensively. At best I could see them undoing the effects of a particularly disastrous battle. What sort of wish would actually do major harm to the Ethengars? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 00:26:59 PDT From: "Paris Isabelle" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Mages - and war wizards Hi all ... I've just one question and one remark about after this especially long mail ( not so boring ). question : What do you call AD+D and D+D, or if it is AD&D and D&D of my tongue, what do you call AD&D and D&D ? note : I'm not sure of the result of a Ethie-Glantry war... One the one hand, Ethie if they have the favor of the attack will be 'banded' ( in french "rallié" rallied ? ) together but what about Glantrians ? During WotI they seems to be very organized and there was no dissention beetween them ( what is due for me to the fact that their foe was Alphatia, and that some Immortals were involved and mortal will must fade face to them ), but it's uneasy to happen against Ethie : most of prince regard them as inferior and perhaps don't think them to be a threat. To end, remember that Roman Empire fell facing barbares ( good translation ?) that were fewer and less advanced than them. What about Glantry ... Yours ... Marc-Antoine of Rifflian. PS : - Excuse my poor English - I don't support any party now ... ( The last one was Alphatia during WotI, and wasn't a true success ...) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 00:59:16 PDT From: "Paris Isabelle" Subject: [MYSTARA] - X2 to sell Hi all ... I've a X2: chateau d'ambreville to sell in FRENCH ! Make proposition ... I gladly exchange it with a X4 or X6 or sth else in French or English ... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 12:24:09 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, JamugaKhan wrote: >No, you're just another of these damn Glantri lovers. Has anybody noticed that this unimportant little country has had probably the strongest support in whole Mystara? Its the best Gaz. At least its the one with the coolest NPCs. I think my overall favourite is Alfheim, but Ethengar is pretty good too. Actually, I think the presence of the radience makes Glantri the most important country on the surface of Mystara. Sincerely, Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 12:34:41 +0000 (GMT) From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar Håvard wrote: >JK wrote: >>No, you're just another of these damn Glantri lovers. Has anybody noticed that this unimportant little country has had probably the strongest support in whole Mystara? >Its the best Gaz. At least its the one with the coolest NPCs. I think my overall favourite is Alfheim, but Ethengar is pretty good too. I'd have to agree about it being the best Gaz. It got wonderful descriptions and adventure ideas popping out everywhere. Factions within Factions and a million and a half agendas. Tis cool. One of the things that Alphatia lacks in comparison is detail, unsurprisingly, since it covers an area several times the size of the known world, so I'm really looking forward to the net-gazeteers! Also, when's the new Almanac coming out, there's been cryptic hints bandied about the list lately about Shadow-elves, and Etherngarians...need to know what happens! >Actually, I think the presence of the radiance makes Glantri the most important country on the surface of Mystara. Which means the Shadow Elves could become very important eventually too... Gordon McCormick UNIX Team - System Management UCD Computing Services Belfield Dublin 4 Ireland +353 1 7062017 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 07:48:50 EDT From: Magesmiley Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Skills and Powers In a message dated 98-04-15 00:21:44 EDT, you write: << Rakes and Bards of Mystara lack the abilities of "Backstab" and "Pick Pockets" but have all of the other abilities of Thieves. Since they set themselves apart from "criminal" Thieves, I would also deny them the ability to speak "Thieves' Cant". These deletions from the standard abilities give them 25 extra character points. >> Not sure if I would delete pick pockets for bards, this ability can also be used as sort of a sleight of hand roll as well as its more larcenous uses. - -Mage *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 08:20:19 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar At 12:34 PM 4/17/98 +0000, you wrote: >Håvard wrote: >>JK wrote: >One of the things that Alphatia lacks in comparison is detail, unsurprisingly, since it covers an area several times the size of the known world, so I'm really looking forward to the net-gazeteers! Ah, but if Geoff, Alex, and I have anything to say about it, THAT will change soon! One of the things that really distressed me about DotE was the lack of detail for Alphatia. I have always argued (oh, since around CM1) that this is potentially the most interesting country in the world. Up until this moment, however, the interest has been merely potential... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 08:51:33 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance (was PC1 and Alfheim) In a message dated 98-04-16 00:41:12 EDT, you write: << There is one obvious place for the displaced Alphatians to go -- Norwold. After all, they did once own the place and have a good claim to it. All they have to do is kick out the Heldanners -- for which King Ericall by now would be most grateful. >> I had forgotten about Norwold as a staging area for further colonization and relocation. A shame on my part since so much material was involved with that area. Still, I imagine Norwold may not of shook its backwards impression, even among the refugee Alphatians. Some of which, in particular the mages, may not jump at the chance. Alphatians are known for taking the path of least resistance. ex- instead of crafting own jewelry they recruited dwarves (StoutFellow). Commoners may find the challenge appealling. But before they go running off to find new lands, retaking some of their own may be a priority. IIRC at least one of the Alatian Islands is still in Thyatian hands. Given the geographical location of the Alatians, they may prove ineffcient for Thyatis to defend much less hold. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 08:01:32 -0500 From: anowack@juno.com (Aaron E Nowack) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Mages - and war wizards On Fri, 17 Apr 1998 00:26:59 PDT "Paris Isabelle" writes: >question : What do you call AD+D and D+D, or if it is AD&D and D&D of mmy tongue, what do you call AD&D and D&D ? D&D (or OD&D) is the rules system described in the Basic, Expert, Companion, Master, and Immortals boxed sets. The first four boxed sets were compiled into the Rules Cycolpedia, and the fifth was replaced with Wrath of the Immortals. AD&D is the rules system described in the Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide and Monsterous Manual. It is currently in its second edition. Aaron Nowack "In the grim darkness of the far future there is only.... SPAM." http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/5930/ _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #222 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 14:23:14 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #223 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Friday, April 17 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 223 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: war wishes Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general debate Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Mages - and war wizards [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA]-In search of modules Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Gaz (was Re: Glantri vs Ethengar) Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Gaz (was Re: Glantri vs Ethengar) Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar [MYSTARA] - New address Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Mages - and war wizards [MYSTARA] - Alphatia, Thyatis, and the Night Spider [MYSTARA] - Alphatians ARE the Nice Guys [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Englishmen??? Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia, Thyatis, and the Night Spider Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatians ARE the Nice Guys Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Mages - and war wizards ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 10:01:24 EDT From: BoBo II Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: war wishes I'm not thinking of anything drastic "kill all Ethengarians", etc . . but judiciously phrased at the outset of a campaign, something broad but of low "level" impact that affects the whole theater of war, could give one side the edge. Wars have been one or lost by the intangiables . . . "An army of sheep lead by a lion is more dangerous than an army of lions lead by a sheep." -old military wisdom *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 10:36:57 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general debate In a message dated 98-04-16 03:18:47 EDT, you write: << I was never much of a mage-playing gamer, but I ran a Glantri campaign for my brother and some friends and I learned a new appreciation for how magic can make you rethink a standard military engagement. If one side has a great advantage in that area, barring a great lack in others, it can tip a battle as readily as technological disparity in the RW.(according to PWA's, Glantri troops are Renn.-based vs. Bronze-based Horde.) Its not enough in and of itself, but. . . >> Same here. Always seemed to focus on fighters in any games I played in. Even when running elves or clerics, I often acted stingy with spells, not wishing to prematurely use them. The exception being the cleric's ability to Turn Undead, which was and still is a favorite of mine. But anyway, I am rambling already, use of magic in a mass battle varies from to game. A reflection of the player's warcraft knowledge as well as tactical preferences. This is good as it also reflects the individual preferences of various PC/NPC Generals. A good general makes the best use of the tools available. Magic is such a tool. Whether the general wants to use his available mages to cast barrages of Magic Missiles into charging cavalry or an approaching pike line. Or if he wants the mages to knock holes in the defesnes to allow his own troops breaches to exploit. It all depends on the commander and the situation. Hero types can also make a heavy impact. A 20+ level fighter can wreak havoc against 1st or 2nd level troops. <> Yes, some good examples of magical use in mass warfare. As for skyships, I still have to stand by my assertion that they are an Alphatian area. True some Glantrians of Alphatian heritage may have some knowledge of their construction, but would that know how be up to date enough to match the tier of Alphatian design. Plus there is the cost. A skyship is expensive. Glantri has taxes on everything as is, hence the economy is not exactly allowing an overflowing treasury. I am uncertain if the economic situation would allow for the financial aspect of skyship construction. Then there is training. Glantri has no experience in a naval role. River boats do not count. To sum it up in a Desert Storm sense, "T62s going up against M1a1". Or more appropriately "F/A 18 Hornets going up against MiG 17s" <> I see little cause for Glantri to have any serious insight to Alphatian tactics. In WotI the two never really faced each other. I guess several Glantrian observers could have witnessed some of the battles and reported the info back, if they survived the battle. Alphatian Imperial Boltmen are expensive to maintain. The wands cost money. Those mages rise in XP level, so I assume turnover rate is high. Boltmen are a neccessity as it is in their hands that those expensive (even by Alphatian standards) skyships are protected. The enchanted item industry is something I do agree on. But the same could be said for Alphatia and even Thyatis. Thyatis has the Protectorate of Scalaras (sp) in which the top 250 36th level mages of Thyatis live. A sort of mini Grand Council. Thyatis does not have the mages Alphatia does. But even at a ratio of 10:1 the potential is still present for a sizable war inventory. <> Aalban mechinized machines are pretty much known for their "going crazy" and impractibility. They are toys, oddities, and focus of attention for Jaggar's son. Golems could work. The Mover's Guild and other cool little businesses are just that, businesses. These civilians would not be attuned to military actions. Moving a two headed demigorgon across town is different from taking said demigorgon into Ethie lands. <> Well first off, I'd say the Great Khan loses some sleep. But I do assume his mages and clerics have placed wards and such on him for protection from foreigners as well as rivals. Personally I would stay away from Wishes in such things. Gamewise it would be bad as Wishes are too omnipotent. Then again it could backlash. A DM is supposed to maintain game balance. A wish is a favorite means for the DM to meddle with things. A vengeful DM would have a field day trying to twist the wish. Even if effective and the Khan dies, who is to say his successor is not a better leader than he. <> 9th Level? That's a little high even for D&D. IIRC the GSoM had no real graduation level. No one really ever graduated. At most, the grads were 1st thru 3rd level and came back to furhter their studies from time to time. IIRC one prerequisite to get in is a demo of magical ability by casting and recognizing a spell or two. Plus the students at the GSoM are not all Glantrians. Students come from all over Brun. Much has been made of the War Machine stat's for Ethengar and Glantri but I throw this observation in for good measure: according to the PWA's, the Banners of the Glantrian army has a 4 standard fighters-to-1 war wizard ratio. (attention all "Ethengar would crush 'em hand to hand" proponents). But what strikes me as odd is that they are organizationally broken down into separate units. Does this strike anyone else as a little odd? Are they to good to associate with commoners? Are they held in reserve as fire support and artillery( a la Warcraft)?>> As stated or at least implied, I'll go through and do a heads up match up between a Ethie and Glantri force. I did something like it on a smaller scale some time back for a PBeM in which the Ethie invade Glantri via Boldavia. <> Yep. And Alphatia also uses mages of lower levels in mass to volley spells. These troop mages are mounted and accompanied by enough normal troops to allow them to get in do their thing and get out. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 07:56:40 PDT From: "Paris Isabelle" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Mages - and war wizards >>question : What do you call AD+D and D+D, or if it is AD&D and D&D of mmmy tongue, what do you call AD&D and D&D ? >D&D (or OD&D) is the rules system described in the Basic, Expert, Companion, Master, and Immortals boxed sets. The first four boxed sets were compiled into the Rules Cycolpedia, and the fifth was replaced with >Wrath of the Immortals. AD&D is the rules system described in the Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide and Monsterous Manual. It is currently in its second edition. Hi all I think you don't understand my question : someone writes that D&D is different from D+D ??? I know OD&D to play with it but D+D ??? I'm too looking for where does Blackball come from ... It seems not to be created by immortals nor mortals ( of course ) and totally independant ( free from most any controll ... ) Is there a 36th level MU in Glantry or anywhere else having idea of this ??? A lonely man said : Et s'il n'en reste qu'un, je serai celui là ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 10:08:14 -0500 From: "Vogt, Vincent N" Subject: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA]-In search of modules I am looking to purchase modules for Mystara. In particular I am looking for the B series. Also I am looking for the Champions of Mystara box set. I anyone has these and are willing to sell please e-mail me at: vvogt667@uwsp.edu please include the price you are asking and your e-mail address so I may reply. Thank you, Vinny *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 11:10:53 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar In a message dated 98-04-16 15:51:59 EDT, you write: << >No, you're just another of these damn Glantri lovers. Has anybody noticed tthat this unimportant little country has had probably the strongest support in whole Mystara? I'd've thought it was more Alphatia that had the strongest support and it's poor Thyatis that seems to get the short end of the stick, but there you go...>> Yep...I too have notice this focus on Glantri. IMO Glantri pales in comparison to Alphatia. You could say that Glantri is Alphatia's poor cousin for many reasons. IMO Alphatia got the short end as so little is issued about them. More to the point, Alphatia is described pretty badly, even getting penned as evil. I especially despised the handling of Alphatia in the DragonLord Trilogy. IMO Thyatis was the pride of the Mystara staff. Its locale dictated that focus of attention. Heck, the first adventure (Basic Red Box) was based in a Thyatian territory. Alphatia was so kooky and distant that it was a mysterious, all powerful land. IMO Alphatia is not good. It is not bad. It is Alphatia. If Alphatia was evil, then Mystara would be their entirely. Those areas they could not conquer and occupy would have been blasted to ashes. The Alphatians hold alot of brute power. An evil nation would use that power. But back to the point, I have little interest in Ethengar or Glantri. My interest in Glantri comes from my partaking in a Glantri PBeM. The stalemate is one thing that draws my attention and interest. It is so much more than the stalemate Alphatia and Thyatis hold (worldly destruction). The Ethie/Glantri Stalemate is one of checks and balances and surprisingly complex. I like that. <<>Very sad, this thing. Could be worse, the Alphatians could be invading the Steppe :) :) >>>> Why would Alphatia do that? No reason for it. Alas, more Thyatian propaganda has diluted the perceived rationality of the Alphatian people. Anything the Alphatians can be accused of the Glantrians bear equal blame. And I am not even going to start on Thyatis. :-) Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 08:35:00 -0700 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Gaz (was Re: Glantri vs Ethengar) At 08:20 AM 4/17/98 -0400, Daly wrote: >At 12:34 PM 4/17/98 +0000, Håvard wrote: OOOne of the things that Alphatia lacks in comparison is detail, unsurprisingly, since it covers an area several times the size of the known world, so I'm really looking forward to the net-gazeteers! >Ah, but if Geoff, Alex, and I have anything to say about it, THAT will change soon! How goes the further development of the 'Alphatian' Gaz anyway? Jenni - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs strawberry@jamm.com <==> http://www.jamm.com/ <------------------------------------------------------------------> God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. Then God started to think: "I should create things *I* like!" And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 11:37:46 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar At 11:10 AM 4/17/98 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 98-04-16 15:51:59 EDT, you write: Yep...I too have notice this focus on Glantri. IMO Glantri pales in comparison >to Alphatia. You could say that Glantri is Alphatia's poor cousin for many reasons. >IMO Alphatia got the short end as so little is issued about them. More to the point, Alphatia is described pretty badly, even getting penned as evil. I especially despised the handling of Alphatia in the DragonLord Trilogy. Oh! Me too! This is one of the reasons I did not like that trilogy! In general, countries are not good or evil...actions are, but not countries or people as a whole. In fantasy worlds we have the luxury of creating evil countries like Hule and Denagoth and then hating them with a passion. But what was always cool about the strife between Alphatia and Thyatis was that the very struggle itself was more like a real world struggle. It is the individual choices of people set against the backdrop of a monumental conflict that can be defined as good or evil. Not only this, but Alphatia was first presented in the companion modules. The players fought for Alphatia against the evil, scheming Thyatian empire. For some reason, the TSR writers did a total reverse... >IMO Thyatis was the pride of the Mystara staff. Its locale dictated that focus >of attention. Heck, the first adventure (Basic Red Box) was based in a Thyatian territory. Which adventure was that? Alphatia was so kooky and distant that it was a mmysterious, all powerful land. IMO Alphatia is not good. It is not bad. It is Alphatia. If Alphatia was evil, then Mystara would be their entirely. Those areas they could not conquer and occupy would have been blasted to ashes. The Alphatians hold alot of brute power. An evil nation would use that power. Exactly. At the point when they arrived they had enough power stored up to reduce the planet to cinders I am sure. But they were not looking to conquer. They were seeking a home. Yes, they did conquer the primitive people they found on the landfall continent. But I have no doubt they justified this..."We educate those we conquer and give them a better life. These people have just as much chance of producing mages as anyone..." The "invasion" of Mystara stopped at one point. Further conquerings occured when Alphatia had trouble with barbaric pirates and such. In any case, I am babbling... ><<>Very sad, this thing. >Could be worse, the Alphatians could be invading the Steppe :) :) >>>> >Why would Alphatia do that? No reason for it. Yeah, as a whole the country of Alphatia would not be interested. An individual Alphatian or Alphatian kingdom might discover the enormous power to be had from the Black Mountain. Then he or they may decide to conquer Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 14:23:14 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #223 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com the place. Alas, more Thyatian propaganda >has diluted the perceived rationality of the Alphatian people. Anything the Alphatians can be accused of the Glantrians bear equal blame. And I am not even going to start on Thyatis. :-) Exactly. So when precisely did that adulterous power hungry schemer Thincol become a hero? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 11:58:43 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Gaz (was Re: Glantri vs Ethengar) At 08:35 AM 4/17/98 -0700, you wrote: >At 08:20 AM 4/17/98 -0400, Daly wrote: >>At 12:34 PM 4/17/98 +0000, Håvard wrote: >How goes the further development of the 'Alphatian' Gaz anyway? It is going well. Thanks for asking. Bettelyn, the religious center of the empire, should be done soon...that is if those darned Randellans will stop sabotaging us! Frisland is also in the works, done by Geoff Gander. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 17:11:03 +0000 (GMT) From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar >In a message dated 98-04-16 15:51:59 EDT, Alex wrote: ><< >No, you're just another of these damn Glantri lovers. Has anybody noticed ttthat this unimportant little country has had probably the strongest support in whole Mystara? >I'd've thought it was more Alphatia that had the strongest support and it's poor Thyatis that seems to get the short end of the stick, but there you go...>> >Yep...I too have notice this focus on Glantri. IMO Glantri pales in comparison to Alphatia. You could say that Glantri is Alphatia's poor cousin for many reasons. >IMO Alphatia got the short end as so little is issued about them. More to the point, Alphatia is described pretty badly, even getting penned as evil. I especially despised the handling of Alphatia in the DragonLord Trilogy. IMO Thyatis was the pride of the Mystara staff. Its locale dictated that focus of attention. Heck, the first adventure (Basic Red Box) was based in a Thyatian territory. Alphatia was so kooky and distant that it was a mysterious, all powerful land. IMO Alphatia is not good. It is not bad. It is Alphatia. If Alphatia was evil, then Mystara would be their entirely. Those areas they could not conquer and occupy would have been blasted to ashes. The Alphatians hold alot of brute power. An evil nation would use that power. I'd hope that no one thought of Alphatia as evil, it's one of the nicest empires around! Non-expansionist, high standard of living, and rulers like Eriadna and Tylion. Apart from the Cartagia like Zandor it seems like it's a cool friendly place to be. Naturally, that's why I prefer Glantri with it's werewolves, vampires, burning of clerics etc. Yup, if you want evil then it's sitting just west of Ethengar. But then the Ethengarians could be described as evil, butchering whole tribes who dare to disobey the Khan. Not to mention the raiders of the Northern Reaches who rape, murder and pillage. The intolerant Ylari, the treacherous Thyations, the sneaky wimpy merchants of Darokin, the arrogant elves, the surly dwarves, the all-round-nice-guy Hin, er, Ok, maybe not the last ones. :) I like that there aint no evil countries or good countries. Evil people yeah (although again, I think evil and good are subjective, but let's not start the slavery being good or evil thing again!) but not an entire country of nasty evil things with no reedeming values! Even the humanoids are just doing what they do to survive, and who wouldn't be miffed at the Humans for driving them into the worst lands... I always played Alphatians like English aristocrats between WWI and WWII. Secure in their country (even if the US is becoming more powerful), and not really caring about anywhere else. Historians are the only ones who know about Glantri. Jeeves and Wooster would make fine Alphatians, albiet if they both had enough magical power to level a town... Nope, in my book the Alphatians are the good guys all the way. My players don't think of them that way, but that's cos their characters just accidently started a war with them.... :) >Could be worse, the Alphatians could be invading the Steppe :) :) >>>> >Why would Alphatia do that? No reason for it. Alas, more Thyatian propaganda has diluted the perceived rationality of the Alphatian people. Anything the Alphatians can be accused of the Glantrians bear equal blame. And I am not even going to start on Thyatis. :-) They wouldn't since they're so isolationist, but if they did...it would hurt... (So now I'm waiting for Almanac 1015, *and* alphatian gaz's! Ah, this is better than waiting for the next release from TSR :) ) gordon http://seija.ucd.ie/dnd/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 18:10:58 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: [MYSTARA] - New address Just a note to everyone, my new address is solmyr@kolumbus.fi ************ Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 18:13:18 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Mages - and war wizards >Oops -- there is another potential "wisher" that I missed. But given how the GMs in most games I have played interpret Wishes, I am hard put to see how Wishes can be used offensively. At best I could see them undoing the effects of a particularly disastrous battle. What sort of wish would actually do major harm to the Ethengars? Well, something like "I wish ??? to be immediately teleported to the northernmost reaches of Norwold", with ??? being Moglai Khan, Jamal, Akmad ibn Yussef, or whoever is causing the most trouble for the Glantrians. ************ Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 13:53:41 -0400 From: Amaldis@concentric.net Subject: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia, Thyatis, and the Night Spider <> Yeah, a cool friendly place to be, where non-spellcasting citizens are relegated to second class citizenship or slavery with no chance of self improvement, and can be killed by spellcasting citizens with minimal retribution. Personally, I think the New Alphatian Empire is much "nicer" than the old one; Thothia still practices slavery, but I suspect the new pharoah is going to try to phase this out(much as Ostland has done). I suppose that means that Thyatis will be the ONLY nation in the Known World to continue the practice of slavery(unless you count Jaibul in the Known World). BTW, what ever happened to the Night Spider and its cult in Thothia? - -Amaldis *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 18:53:12 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Alphatians ARE the Nice Guys >>IMO Alphatia got the short end as so little is issued about them. More to the >>point, Alphatia is described pretty badly, even getting penned as evil. I especially despised the handling of Alphatia in the DragonLord Trilogy. I couldnt agree more. The Alphatians were made out to be completely thick and 100% at the mercy of a bunch of dragons (I dont think so!!! - Alphatia vs 2000 dragons at the height of Alphatian power? Dragons LOSE (they did against Blackmoor)). And the Alphatians are very cool. Sadly I for one have only the PWAs and a few modules like Vengeance of Alphaks to draw info on Alphatia from. (and the NACE on the Internet). I also eagerly await the Net Gazetteer. I was thinking about this "sinking of Alphatia" thing. The NACE is, apparently, ruled in the name of the (still alive) Empress Eriadna. I would like Eriadna to take a lot more active role in what happens to the NACE, after her new Floating Continent is in order. I know that her nation is now under the Spell of Preservation, but it has been weakened due to damage to the World Shield during WotI. Its not hard to go from Hollow to Outer worlds when you have skyships - and the Alphatians are going to need a lot of skyships now they are on a floating continent! Just because Alphatia and her Most Cool Empress are in the Hollow World doesnt mean to say we have heard the last from the Ancient, Mighty Empire of Alphatia... ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 18:42:47 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Englishmen??? This was from Gordon... I always played Alphatians like English aristocrats between WWI and WWII. Secure in their country (even if the US is becoming more powerful), and not really caring about anywhere else. Historians are the only ones who know about Glantri. Jeeves and Wooster would make fine Alphatians, albiet if they both had enough magical power to level a town... message. I just had to answer this one... lol. I like Alphatia too, I and quite agree that it is probably one of the nicest countries to live in on Mystara. But - I always played them like Americans!!! :) If you think about it - Alphatia is expansionist, but is more interested in influence then drawing borders on a map (bit like the USA and South America, or, for that matter, the USA and the entire western world). The Alphatians I think also see themselves as a bit of a Mystaran police force, fighting for the right and all that (the NACE certainly seems to be like that anyway). They even live on a continent in relative isolation (compared to the Known World, which is more like Europe with all the bickering and infighting that goes on there)... They even have Hard Ball and Super Hard Ball, with teams like the Aquas Dolphins... (if they were English it would be Sundsvall United versus Aasla City)... lol I know that this is a completely pointless letter, but I just had to answer it... ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 14:07:19 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia, Thyatis, and the Night Spider At 01:53 PM 4/17/98 -0400, you wrote: ><> >Yeah, a cool friendly place to be, where non-spellcasting citizens are relegated to second class citizenship or slavery with no chance of self improvement, and can be killed by spellcasting citizens with minimal retribution. Are you arguing that, as a whole, Alphatia is evil? Are you arguing that Thyatis is holds higher moral ground than Alphatia? I think that was the main point of this thread. Thyatis in recent years has been portrayed as the better of the two. In a previous message I pointed out that this was not always the case. It used to be that Thyatis was the bad guy and Alphatia was the good guy...or at least Norwold was. Actually, Norwold is still where I like to center my campaigns. As a pawn between two empires, the setting has alot to offer young companion level adventurers. My players are in the midst of helping determine that kingdom's future...whether they make the final break with the mother country and risk exterior aggression from a young Heldann or a Thyatis...or if they stay under the heel of a huge empire that cares not much for her colonies except in terms of economic gain. Currently they are on a tour of Alphatia proper, both to show loyalty to the empress and to get information in case of a break. I refuse to participate in a "let's rehash slavery" thread though. If you want to see all the different opinions on slavery and the countries who practice it both in our fantasy world and in real life history, then go to the archives. Simply too sensitive a topic... >BTW, what ever happened to the Night Spider and its cult in Thothia? It depends on the result of "Talons of Night". IMC this is going to occur about 10 years prior to WotI. I might even have a mysterious being pop up during the treaty signing with a message like... "Congratulations lords!" The being says, sarcasm dripping from it's ethereal fangs, "You have earned for yourselves a peace. With peace comes hope and the ability to work together on projects both grand and far reaching. But your precious peace will not last. There will come a time of great strife when the people will cry to the stars 'reign fire upon us! the pain is too great!' But there will be no balm. No soothing magics will heal these unfortunates who had the ill luck to be born beneath this sky. The rivers will run with blood and mighty empires will fall. Mark my words, lords. Mark them well for the time of your peace will last no longer than half a score of years." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 14:14:55 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatians ARE the Nice Guys At 06:53 PM 4/17/98 +0100, you wrote: >>>IMO Alphatia got the short end as so little is issued about them. More to tthe >>>point, Alphatia is described pretty badly, even getting penned as evil. I especially despised the handling of Alphatia in the DragonLord Trilogy. >I couldnt agree more. The Alphatians were made out to be completely thick and 100% at the mercy of a bunch of dragons (I dont think so!!! - Alphatia vs 2000 dragons at the height of Alphatian power? Dragons LOSE (they did against Blackmoor)). Speaking of which, does anyone get the feeling the author just "didn't get it" concerning Blackmoor's techno empire? I mean, the sword and armor from that trilogy just did not have a technological feel to me at all. Admittedly, the fellow could have been making an attempt to be subtle since the characters should not know what tech is...but-- Well, my feeling regarding those books is that the author was way too heavy handed about everything. Secrets were told right and left without any Mystaran mystery about anything. For instance, from the first mention of the Alphatians we knew they were from another world. Blackmoor was an ancient kingdom that had been destroyed. The Flaems came from the same world as the Alphatians. I think these things would have been much more interesting, even though I already knew the details, if the details had come out gradually and with a sense of discovery. In any case, as far as the Blackmoor artifacts, they actually seemed too magical to me. Admittedly the way I see Blackmoor at the height of its power, is as an empire that was largely successful in integrating magic and technology...but I saw no evidence of technology in the remnants as described in those books. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 15:50:56 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Mages - and war wizards At 19.33 16/04/98 +0100, Robert Fry wrote: >All pretty tough customers. And concerning wish - wish isnt all it's cracked up to be. Plenty of other gross high level magics to deal out some heinous punishment upon thine enemies. You don't need wish when you've got some AD+D mage firepower! About this high-level.mages vs. the Great Khan discussion. Don't you think the Khan will protect himself before attacking Glantri? For example wearing a Ring of Spell Turning ? Another thought on this war: do you think all Glantrian Princes will step up in defense of Glantri? Wouldn't some of them side with the Great Khan, especially in the confused political situation after WotI (Synn, Kol, Brannart...)? >IF YOU HAVE READ THIS FAR, YOU MUST NOW BE VERY BORED. In fact I read just the first 20 lines or so :) ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com DM in City Of The Stars - Mystaran Almanac Assistant Leader of Privateers - Student of Aerospace Enginnering Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #223 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 17:35:23 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #224 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Friday, April 17 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 224 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general debate Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Breaking the stalemate [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor, Dragonarmour, and Stuff [MYSTARA] - Ring of Spell Turning??? Re: Re[4]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general debate Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Mages - and war wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general debate Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 15:56:59 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar At 12.24 17/04/98 +0200, Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: >Actually, I think the presence of the radience makes Glantri the most important country on the surface of Mystara. And the ongoing construction of Rafiel's Chamber of the Spheres makes the Shadow Elves Kingdom the most important country inside Mystara's crust... ;-) - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 14:30:16 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general debate << Yes, the Horde on the plains has a huge "home field advantage", but it might not be enough. (Let me babble on before flipping out, oh Great Khan) >> Not today! I've throwed the dices some months ago and the result was a stalemate with light advantages for Glantri even on the steppes. OTOH the BR of the Glantrinian army is ridiculously high. As I said before Glantri has more supporters than it really needs. It's a good country to have campaigns which are funny or have this distinctive sense of wonder. As a supporter of the people of Ethengar I have to say that they would surprise everyone should this war finally brake out. Even all this high-level wizard, undisputable useful, are not enough to simply root out the horse warriors of the Sea of Grass. The Ethengars have studied Glantri for several centuries and they know how to fight against wizards. One example: A argam (ten warriors) which meets a wizards cannot be killed by one fireball, because the wizard would not be able to catch them all. The Ethengar know what could happen and would disperse themself and at least one rider would flee to get more men. And when the Glantrinian would manage to kill some hundred or thousand men (or civilian!), the Khans would order the shamans and clerics to resurrect them. This is not a matter of money or believings, but of fulfilling of orders. Finally I only can say, that we have really a stalemate, over centuries! Jamuga Khan "But somedays... somedays we will get them." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 16:15:50 EDT From: BoBo II Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Breaking the stalemate If the Clerical influence should ever rise, or the Ethengarian minotity gain in power and influence, your "sleeper agent" Sceneario could lead to a very scary Glantrian civil war. With Synn's help, this is probably coming sooner than later, leaving a weaken nation open to . . . .but your way ahead of me here already, aren't you Khan. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 21:16:10 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor, Dragonarmour, and Stuff >Speaking of which, does anyone get the feeling the author just "didn't get it" concerning Blackmoor's techno empire? I mean, the sword and armor from that trilogy just did not have a technological feel to me at all. Admittedly, the fellow could have been making an attempt to be subtle since the characters should not know what tech is...but-- That being said, I just ran a few Tale of the Comet adventures, and it has to be said, the techno weapons in that are very similar to that Dragonlord armour. Rael Powered armour - makes you immune to nonmagical weapons, magical weapons only do their magical bonus in damage, immune to fire, lightning and a few others etc etc... And the blaster cannons and blaster rifles sound quite similar in effect to those bolts Thelvyn was heaving around... Those books weren't that bad tho. Many criticisms aside (I don't think the books were particularly well written, although the storylines were quite good) there was a lot of cool stuff. I've never seen any canon material about Mystaran dragons, so as far as I was concerned there was a lot of new stuff that I found interesting. A bit too pro-dragon and anti human, maybe (reminds me of those drow books - I used to like drow but after TSR has been elevating them to godhood over the last few years I switched off. Three Cheerz to the Shadow Elves - now they're cool). As a complete aside - one of my friends heard an Internet rumour (apparently) that Takhisis from Krynn has a go at Mystara... Anyone know if this is true? (or wrote the article?). ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 21:07:29 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Ring of Spell Turning??? >About this high-level.mages vs. the Great Khan discussion. Don't you think the Khan will protect himself before attacking Glantri? For example wearing a Ring of Spell Turning ? >Another thought on this war: do you think all Glantrian Princes will step up in defense of Glantri? Wouldn't some of them side with the Great Khan, especially in the confused political situation after WotI (Synn, Kol, Brannart...)? Hmm. Ring of Spell Turning??? who makes those? mages, perhaps? Besides, that only protects against a very few spells really. Not as gross as it is made out to be. Now, a certain ioun stone might do the trick... But even then there are many Glantrian spells (im thinking pierce any shield here) that could splatter just about anyone on the planet without too much problem, magic items or no magic items. Concerning this Glantrian infighting thing - I agree(i mentioned this a little while back). But the Khan is going to have to mobilise this support. I imagine that when the Khan rolls over the first principality there will be a vote in the Council of Princes. A few princes abstaining or wanting to sue for peace would hurt the Glantrian war effort immediately. But, if the Khan is dumb and doesnt bother with a little preplanning I reckon Jaggar and Urmahid will rally the princes. No prince is going to actively support the Khan - but a few might be inclined to bug out of the fight if the Khan does some sly devious diplomacy... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 14:27:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: Re[4]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World >NOTE: DUE TO SPACE CONSIDERATIONS, CERTAIN PARTS SNIPPED. OTHERWISE THIS WOULD HAVE TO BE BROKEN UP INTO TWO MAILS. that's all good. >Ah but war by definition is mostly logisitics and only a little bit tactics ... it's maneuver, supply, and related issues that determine the general course of the conflict ... in Ethengar as in our world.>> >I mainly wanted to keep it in the realm of War Machine stats and rules. Also wanted to keep it simple. If I wanted to get fancy, I could come up with all manner of stuff. Drawing actions, flanking maneuvers, pincer attacks, multi prong attacks, and even deversionary attacks come to mind off hand. Why not discuss these? Not that I want to slam the War Machine (I've used it many times) but I know there are a variety of mass combat systems used by Mystara aficionados ... why not talk general strategy and tactics? There's certainly room in D&D to include these. ><> >Actually the Ethie don leather armor (PWA) but IIRC the Ethie Gaz has them wearing scale armor or banded armor. Unable to find the Gaz so I'll have to check. Against non armoured mages even leather is a boon. The GAZ specifically mentions Lamellar armor ... it's often confused with scale mail but lamellar gives a better AC and is a little bit more complex. IIRC in the RW it was popular with Persians and Turks. Banded armor is really more of a Roman thing, but it is possible they might use splint armor for the really wealthy chieftans. It is true this would be an advantage against mages, but only for spells where armor class makes a difference ... which does not include magic missile or sleep, the two main low level combat spells we've been discussing. Anyway, I've tried to consistently point out that I think the Glantrians would NOT leave their unarmored "mage cavalry" undefended from physical attacks ... they would have defensive AC-improving spells, but they would also have a screen of heavily armored fighters ... either heavy cav or pikemen depending on the situation. ><which Mongols actually fought by cavalry charges ... IIRC they nearly always circled and fired volleys on the move so they could stay out of range of the defenders.>> >What would call racing towards thine enemy? True it may not be a knightly charge, but a charge is a charge. I am sure a fighter setting a spear would have the same affect on a "charging" Ethie as a charging Knight in shining armor. no, they wouldn't race towards the enemy like this. They would simply not close for melee combat, but fire arrows from a distance. The only way they would use melee weapons would be to run down individual stragglers after the formation was broken by arrow fire ... there's simply no way they would be stupid enough to engage in massed cavalry charges against phalanx-like infantry formations ... there would be no reason too and they don't have the weapons and armor to be effective even against non-phalanx infantry. >Circling attacks are an age old and affective tactic. It is a tactic of maneuver. A flanking manuever to be precise, followed by encirclement. The intial charge and arrow volleys would make for a bad day to the enemy. no, there's a difference here. What you are talking about is encircling the enemy and then closing with him from his flanks to stretch his defenses and cut off reinforcements and supplies ... this is indeed an age old tactic. But the horse archer tactics I am talking about involves just endless circling ... you would not close with the enemy until he had already been basically beaten by your arrow fire. The arrow volleys would thus not be just an opening to combat but the main combat itself. This is why bows are so important to the whole thing ... otherwise they would only get off a few shots in each battle. >>< tactic against the US cavalry ... hence the old "circled wagons" ffortification as a defense; the defense had to be circular because the attack was. >> >Only in the movies. Native Americans lacked the saddles and more importantly the stirrups that both the Huns and Mongols had. Mounted arrow shots were the thing of Hollywood. Native American tactics were more refined and complicated than those portrayed on film. Many of these tactics are still studied today in the US Army. Forth Knox has a extensive study of Sitting Bull's tactics. Actually, the circled wagons dictated an encirclement. In any encirclement, the outside force acts as a containment force. A portion is set aside to peirce this body of troops in a pincer attack. My apologies for my bluntness, but it amazes me that you say this because you otherwise sound as if you know what you are talking about. Saddles and stirrups are important for cavalry charges (with a lance) but not necessary for mounted archery. Plains Indians could and did fire arrows while riding bareback, even in some cases swinging their bodies over the side of the horse for cover and firing under the horse with legs locked around it ... this is not just hollywood mythology. Of course, you are right that the tactics were more complicated than this ... no movie is going to accurately portray all the tactical exigencies of various situations. Your discussion of "encirclement" sound like an army textbook definition, but I don't see what your point is here. The question is not one of the abstract nature of a particular type of engagement so defined, but rather the peculiarities of one historically specific style of fighting and how these are derived from the relative strengths and weaknesses of the weapons involved ... I'm talking about how technology affects combat. Of course, there would ultimately be a need to close in and defeat enemies who were hiding under total cover, or to capture other objectives, but the basics of a horse archer engagement would involve avoiding melee at almost all costs. >Interesting you brought up the US Cav in the Old West. IIRC the Cav fought more like mounted infantry, dimounting to engage the enemy with rifles. As such, one out of every five troops was needed to stand and hold the reigns of his and four other troopers' horses. Thus you have a 20% loss of fighting ability without a single casualty. The Old West Cav was a needed for its mobility capability. In actual combat this practice proved a liability when the Cav were outnumbered (ie: Custer). The days of cavalry clashing and fighting from horseback had died with JEB Stuart. True, but how would you relate this back to what we're talking about here? I'd be interested to hear about this. The technological situation (guns vs. magic) is very different, but in some ways there are probably analogies which could be made to the Glantrian situation. IMHO the Glantrians would find it more effective to dismount their mages to fight, for various reasons, so again we could have a "mage dragoon" situation here. >you are back to talking about low level mages without protection again. the way i envision it, the Glantrians would have ranks of heavy infantry (possibly with crossbowmen) with good armor, possibly behind fortifications, to block the horsemen from coming within firing range of the mages ... who would be invisible and protected from normal missiles anyway, while they prepared large-scale offensive spells to be unleashed on the massed Ethengarians ... the artillery also (even if slow) would be more effective against massed horsemen, which would give the Ethengarians a further incentive to disperse ... but then the Glantrians (if they were able to engage) would be able to make selective overwhelming counterattacks and cut them to shreds. So essentially the Ethengarians would want to AVOID engaging such a combined arms massed force if at all possible. never mind volospin's dragonfly and similar weapons ...>> >One thing ommitted due to my belief in its apparentness. Massed Arty as you speak would only work in open terrain. And in that element, the Ethie could maneuver against it or at least out of its way. Ballista are high velocity and low trajectory weapons. However, targeting is difficult and damage is centered on one or two targets. I didn't mention ballista for a reason ... they are, as you suggest, not a very effective weapon for this sort of thing. AFAIK historically ballista would have been used on ships and castle ramparts, but not for field combat ... their main advantage is penetration, which requires a very large armored or protected target (siege engine, shield wall, ship) to be any more useful than simple crossbows (which are of course a lot more maneuverable). There is a range advantage too, but this would not be decisive. >Spread out damage arty such as catapults are low velocity and high trajectory, allowing visible recognization and a warning period. but this proves nothing. Catapults may be "low velocity" but they aren't necessarily so slow that a horseman at full gallop trying to fire arrows and maneuver in the middle of a battle would have much change of "dodging" fire ... especially if he is in a massed cavalry formation (like we had been discussing) and getting hit with scattered shot ... and I'm sure the Glantrians could improve upon the standard design of a catapult anyway. >And the Glantrians do have the advantage of numbers. By PWA stats they come close to outnumbering the Ethie 2 to 1. really? I'm surprised by this because in Ethengar (unlike Glantri) the whole adult male population at least should be directly involved in the war effort. I realize Glantri would be more populous but I didn't realize the disparity was so great. >Mounted the Ethie can be more picky about an engagement. This can also be used to wear out the Glantrians. agreed. this is what I was saying. >IMO a Glantrian horseman is not the equal of a Ethie horse soldier. Once again, I insert the addage "one trained for the saddle versus one born to the saddle". I agree with this also. >><>other hand, have no way of keeping up with the maneuver speed of the Ethengarian units, and thus no real way of forcing the enemy to engage ... UNLESS they use systematic patrolling, which means they have to figure out a way to protect their scout patrols from being massacred. This would mean that they would need to have experienced trackers native to the plains ... most likely goblinoids, or a disloyal Ethengar clan; they would also have to have powerful magic to defend such trackers.>> >>I agree. Glantri doesn't possess the numbers to cover such a broad range. Their numbers are small as is and such a police action would be compromised bby >>the logistics and expected partisan activity. I see it as highly unlikely a disloyal Ethie Clan would aid the hated Glantrians. If anything a war would provide solidarity. Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 17:35:23 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #224 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com >You never know, there are some pretty treacherous khans around ... i didn't say it was all that likely, i think the goblinoids would be much mroe likely ... i bet some of those goblin wolf riders might actually be pretty effective scouts. i think magical intelligence might also help in this case ...>> >Treacherous yes, but not stupid. As JKhan says in his sig "The Mighty Khan's word is Law". but the Mighty Khan's word is law only as long as he remains khan ... read the Ethengar GAZ again and tell me you don't think there are several khans who are greedy and disloyal enough to join a foreign power to overthrow Moglai. >Goblin Wolf Riders vs. Ethie Horsesoldiers. Not too good. A wolf and horse have two different characteristics for running and such. I doubt you would see them last long on the steppes. Have you actually read the gazeteer? I get the impression you are going from PWA alone. There are indeed several humanoid tribes on the steppes who have lasted for approx. 2700 years and some of them do ride wolves. They are not as strong as the Ethengar, to be sure, and they manage to survive partially by hiding in border areas to elude pursuers, but they do indeed exist. >>I like the idea of the humanoids. Though I see them as fodder, their ppresence >>could divert Ethie troops. Despite a proponent for noid intelligence, I tthink >>the noids would fare ill in combat. They lack the tactics and untity to sstand >>up to a concerted fight against Ethie troops in the open steppes. >they may be goblinoids, but i see no reason to assume they are so pathetic as this ... certainly they lack the discipline of the horse warriors but they HAVE survived on the steppes for this long and they must know a few things ... i disagree with those who make goblinoids out to be stupid nose-pickers ... they may be nosepickers indeed but they can be vicious tacticians.> > >never said noids were stupid. Infact, I have Noids as being about as smart as the average human. Still, I stand by my theory that the goblinoids would be target practice. They simply lack the discipline to stand toe to toe with the Ethie and stand up to their tactics. Against a patrol or small camp a raid may work. But open warfare against a Horde is a different matter. Otherwise, the those goblinoids would have outdone the Ethie long ago. I wasn't talking about open warfare ... I was talking about them being tactically effective scouts for small scale raids with Glantrian support. Especially as night fighters there are all kinds of ways in which goblinoids might even have a significant advantage over equal numbers of Ethengars, on a small scale. ><> >The lack of a complex economy is also an advantage. There is little established industry to disrupt. As a nomadic people, they are use to moving about. As long as the Yaks are okay the Ethie are happy as clams. Now if the Glantrians were to exterminate the yak herds, the Ethie would be in trouble. That is not an easy task. For the Glantrians lack the hunting rifles RW buff hunters had. IIRC the Native Americans called them "shoot today kill tommorrow". Had an excellent range for the time. Yes, the Glantrians lack guns (and railroads, among other important things) but they have magic, and this would have to be the deciding factor. I hate trying to figure out the tactics of magical combat because they get so complex, but that's what will decide this issue. But the yak situation is >pretty obvious. The herds would be herded back into the steppes thus neccessitating deep attacks into the Ethie rear. A difficult thing. Now a few Glantrian skyships could be built and used as gunships ala "Full Metal Jacket" . However, Glantri lacks the ability of the Alphatian Air Mages to build such craft in a timely fashion. Then you have to train crews to fly them. Not viable for a land locked nation. i would think that if the situation called for it the glantrians could certainly call upon such resources one way or another. one important option would be just to hire mercenary skyships... after the fall of alphatia there should be a few around. ><< these are all important. the last part may depend upon WHEN we are ttalking about ... I think they would want to not send troops on suicide missions, so they would be very careful ... but the Ethengarians can't protect everything. >> >The time period I am thinking of is post Wrath. In that frame, the elves are declinining in Glantri. Kol's Noids are making a presense. Whereas the Ethie cannot be everywhere, neither can the Glantrians. Getting to the Ethie camps would be difficult and costly. And given the expanse of the steppes, such incursions would be doubly dangerous. So how would Kol stand on the conflict? If he could recruit troops from the eastern broken lands he could definitely swing things in favor of the Glantrians, but only if he and Jaggar can work out their issues ... perhaps Synn would have a lot to do with this. Who would be ruling Nouvelle Averoigne at this point? Henri, Richard, or Etienne? There's a lot of minor details to work out which could have significant effects. I confess I'm not up on my post-wrath Ethengarian politics, I will need to reread the PWAs to get that. ><> >Yeah. I used AD&D cause the rules book was handy and the info was within one text. I have the Basic, Expert and Companion Sets but did not feel like digging them out. Okay, I was too lazy to go upstairs and get them. That's fine ... but I guess it matters overall for war and politics in general on Mystara ... is it possible for Wizards to scry over long distances, or not? Crystal balls are fairly rare so a spell like clairvoyance might significantly increase the effectiveness of espionage. I think there are some AD&D priest spells which could be of use here too. >>>Yep. Combat would be nasty. The Glantrian invaders would find life ddifficult. >>The steppes are difficult. Where as the Ethie could fall back and subside ffrom >>the land and herds, the Glantrians would have to bring supplies in. Even fodder could be a problem without a mass burning by the Ethie. The gglantrian >>mounts could be ill at ease at consuming the wild grasses. >true. i wouldn't imagine sustained missions at all ... if anything the logical way for the Glantrians to do this would be to build a series of forts and stock them with provisions ... but that means an attempt at sustained conquest, and I can't see it working through all of the plains without control of the whole Streel river trade route, which means controlling the Broken Lands and Darokin ... what might be more likely would be limited expansion, say taking all the land west of the Dol Anur...>> >Nit pick time- Forts require building materials. And since the steppes are virtually devoid of trees (wood forts) building supplies would have to be shipped in. Once again logstics. Not only the building supplies but also the supply convoys. Forts are pretty cool, but the terrain allows manuevering and subsequent attacks on these supply columns. Right again. I am talking about a sustained Glantrian garrison, and control of shipping routes (they would be much more likely, I think, to ship the timber and supplies required up the Streel rather than haul it overland). This would be a strange situation but if they had the power to sustain this and to gradually expand eastward fort by fort they might potentially subjugate the Ethengars this way ... otherwise they would only be able to acheive temporary victories. >But yes, I agree total victory is not feasible for the Glantrians. To attempt to would condemn them to the trap Hitler arranged for the German people, complete victory or death. Well AFAIK plenty of Germans survived WWII and got a nice Marshall plan to boot ... but that aside, the real problem would be that Glantri can't get so embroiled in Ethengar without security on its flanks, which it can never have as long as Hosadus is alive. Glantri is a pretty inaccessible country but it can't ignore its dependence on Darokin. >A good scenario (both Glantri and Germany) would have been a quick assault to set objectives. Then sue for peace. A treaty enables the keeping of most of what has been gained. For RW Germany I would suggest the Dneiper River. I am pretty certain even the Dneiper would have been impossible for Germany to keep for very long ... the deciding factors were Churchill's commitment to enduring the war until Germany could be completely defeated (otherwise Britain might have accepted a negotiated peace) and the incompatibility of the Soviet and Nazi programs ... I tend to think the Russians would have eventually developed the alliance with Britain and the US necessary to trounce the Nazis (not that I want to validate Hitler's strategic weirdness) ... but anyway this kind of stuff is really hard to decisively pronounce upon, even in retrospect. For KW >Glantri, I'd suggest crossing the river and getting the DDC involved. Depending on results either scenario could work. which river? I think they could hold the Dol Anur, especially if they fortified all the river crossings ... how deep is it and does it dry out some in the summertime? does it freeze in winter? these things are important to know. ><> >Yep, not only the terrain, but also the people. The oppressed Boldavians may take a shine to the Ethie if treated well. Sniffing yak fat is alot better than sustaining the larders of "you know who" and his undead band of merry men (and ladies, never forget the ladies). Yup. And anyway you could get some very strange politics going if the Boldavians actually defected with a new prince ... some similarities to RW Transylvania and the Turks. ><> >But pig headed Jaggar wants war. And he wants it bad. And since such a war would cause chaos, Dolores would be quite supportive. Maybe even too supportive blunting the usual sharpness of Jaggar's mind. In that want certain items may be placed upon secondary tiers. Passion often rules, but rarely does it rule wisely. true, but what incentive would dolores have to lose the war? i would think she would want to encourage him to be as careful and certain as possible, to ensure nasty casualties on the other side. >I disagree about Jaggar's veiw of the mundaner troops. Desptie being mmundaners, they are still part of his army, his baby so to speak. I am sure he is quite aware of their importance in protecting the mages. BTW the "nonspellcasting peasant infantry" are not peasants. Soldiers in the Grand Army are well paid and well trained and voluntary. This is a proffessional standing army, not a mob of conscripts. But in a war with Ethengar there would have to be a draft to have the number of troops necessary for full scale war ... I know that there are non spellcaster troops that are professional and disciplined soldiers (both cavalry and infantry), but I think that in addition to these there would be peasant levies who would be the first into the line of fire ... ><< Yes, it does depend quite a great deal on the politics ... that's why diplomacy is so interesting. I confess I hadn't thought of the mercenary issue ... any GAZ 12 info on how much gold the Khan has lying about? another issue of course which someone brought up earlier is the air power thing ... flying boats WOULD tip the balance one way or the other. as for Ethengar-allied infantry, dwarves would make an excellent addition ... the problem is that then they would have to be closely linked to the cavalry arm and this would give Jaggar a lot less of a disadvantage in terms of maneuver ... but it might still work.>> >Whoa we agree on something :-) >I am unsure of the monetary wealth of the Khan. But I am sure mercs will not work for a yak or two as payment. Mercs may not be a financial issue. I was thinking of displaced Alphatians. Alphatians who were the soldiers in the Great War. And who lost home and hearth to those Glantrians. this makes sense, but I think the Khan must be able to trade something other than yaks ... IIRC he does a lot of business with Darokinians and Dwarves, so he's GOT to have some cash around for these purposes. He is the Great Khan, after all. In fact I think trade routes could be a significant issue ... the Dwarves probably have a lot of trade items that can be more efficiently floated down and up the Streel than carried via the overland route ... >To adlib South Park "Oh no, they killed Alphatia. THOSE BASTARDS!!!" >But an interesting point. Without troop compatibility, the alliance for infantry can backlash. More likely dwarven infantry would be most useful in pitched combat inside Glantri. On the steppes they would fall short as they are out of their normal element. true. but if the war involved Glantrian fortifications on the steppes, Dwarven engineers and infantry would be invaluable. Also much of the fighting might take place in the border mountains, or in underground caves (versus the Steppe Humanoids) >>I'll continue to meddle in this and come up with a scenario or two or three that could prove interesting. I have to reconfig the Glantrian side to aaccount >>for the loss of the Erewan and the use of noids. I'll probably toss in Rockhome as Ethie allies. ><i look forward to checking it out.>> >I'll definitely be post Wrath. And like Operation Hydra it will be a theoretical scenario. Unlike Hydra I may forego much of the explanation of certain political events to save time and bandwidth. It is purely theoretical and besides, things got pretty heated then. I just want to say that I liked a lot of the Operation Hydra stuff and I was glad you posted it ... it might not fit everyone's campaign (I am not sure if I can fit it in mine or not yet) but it was very interesting nonetheless. If I ask a lot of pointed questions about the Ethengar v. Glantri scenario it's only because I'm very interested. anyway take care and let me know what else you think about this, m@2 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 17:33:01 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general debate << Thyatis has the Protectorate of Scalaras (sp) in which the top 250 36th level mages of Thyatis live. >> And what do you believe, how many cleric of level 36 live in Thyatis? I know one... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 17:33:06 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Mages - and war wizards << Well, something like "I wish ??? to be immediately teleported to the northernmost reaches of Norwold", with ??? being Moglai Khan, Jamal, Akmad ibn Yussef, or whoever is causing the most trouble for the Glantrians. >> Saving throw! Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 17:33:03 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general debate << 9th Level? That's a little high even for D&D. IIRC the GSoM had no real graduation level. No one really ever graduated. At most, the grads were 1st thru 3rd level and came back to furhter their studies from time to time. IIRC one prerequisite to get in is a demo of magical ability by casting and recognizing a spell or two. Plus the students at the GSoM are not all Glantrians. Students come from all over Brun. >> No, the big graduation test requires level 9, indeed. Of course a mage can visit more courses thereafter, as a good one never stops learning. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 17:33:04 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar << Naturally, that's why I prefer Glantri with it's werewolves, vampires, burning of clerics etc. Yup, if you want evil then it's sitting just west of Ethengar. But then the Ethengarians could be described as evil, butchering whole tribes who dare to disobey the Khan. >> Hm, hm, yes, o.k.! We all have some little faults. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's is always so say when he is forced to annihilate a complete tribe." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #224 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Saturday, April 18 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 225 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Englishmen??? Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatians ARE the Nice Guys Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar Vs. Brun (was PC1) Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia, Thyatis, and the Night Spider [MYSTARA] - Alphatia in the Hollow World Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatians ARE the Nice Guys [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Boltmen Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Mages - and war wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA]-In search of modules Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general debate Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general debate Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Englishmen??? Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia, Thyatis, and the Night Spider [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Skills and Powers Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Mages - and war wizards [MYSTARA] - Thincol (was Glantri vs Ethengar) [MYSTARA] - Dragonlord trilogy mysteries (was Alphatians ARE the Nice Guys) Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Mages - and war wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia in the Hollow World Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Boltmen Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general debate Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Boltmen [MYSTARA] - "The sun never sets on the Alphatian Empire" Re: [MYSTARA] - Thincol (was Glantri vs Ethengar) Re: Re: [MYSTARA] -A nation at war . . . ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 17:33:08 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Englishmen??? << I always played Alphatians like English aristocrats between WWI and WWII. Secure in their country (even if the US is becoming more powerful), and not really caring about anywhere else. Historians are the only ones who know about Glantri. Jeeves and Wooster would make fine Alphatians, albiet if they both had enough magical power to level a town... message. I just had to answer this one... lol. I like Alphatia too, I and quite agree that it is probably one of the nicest countries to live in on Mystara. But - I always played them like Americans!!! :) If you think about it - Alphatia is expansionist, but is more interested in influence then drawing borders on a map (bit like the USA and South America, or, for that matter, the USA and the entire western world). The Alphatians I think also see themselves as a bit of a Mystaran police force, fighting for the right and all that (the NACE certainly seems to be like that anyway). They even live on a continent in relative isolation (compared to the Known World, which is more like Europe with all the bickering and infighting that goes on there)... They even have Hard Ball and Super Hard Ball, with teams like the Aquas Dolphins... (if they were >> And don't forget that the Alphatian Imperial Navy (AIN) resembles to the USN in many ways. OTOH Thyatis has some elements of US government. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 17:33:10 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatians ARE the Nice Guys << I couldnt agree more. The Alphatians were made out to be completely thick and 100% at the mercy of a bunch of dragons (I dont think so!!! - Alphatia vs 2000 dragons at the height of Alphatian power? Dragons LOSE (they did against Blackmoor)). >> Against the WHOLE empire perhaps, but probably most Alphatians didn't participate in this war. << And the Alphatians are very cool. >> Elementary, dear Watson. :-) Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 17:33:00 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar Vs. Brun (was PC1) << Anyways were would the Ethie get the Wood for their Skycraft, and what would the design look like, will it be shiplike, like the Alphatians, will it look like a animal, like the Heldanners, or will it be geometric, like Azimuth's ship(again, the mage's name is a guess)? >> Either they would get the wood from the mountain surrounding the steppes or their hakomons would have to create it by spell. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 17:33:07 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia, Thyatis, and the Night Spider << Yeah, a cool friendly place to be, where non-spellcasting citizens are relegated to second class citizenship >> Is this better in Thyatis, Karameikos or Darokin? Some few succeed, bust most not. Even in Alphatia a non-spellcaster can make his fortune. BTW: Have anybody noticed that Alphatia have changed since DoE? In this box the Alphatian nobility was decribed as arrogant snobs who suppress all commoners. In newer products the Empire got a real practical sense. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 17:33:10 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia in the Hollow World Has the Spell of Preservation the same strength in all parts of the HW? What if it is much weaker outside the Skyshield or even doesn't exist. Consider this for Alphatia! Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 18:02:00 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatians ARE the Nice Guys << In any case, as far as the Blackmoor artifacts, they actually seemed too magical to me. Admittedly the way I see Blackmoor at the height of its power, is as an empire that was largely successful in integrating magic and technology...but I saw no evidence of technology in the remnants as described in those books. >> Perhaps the sword contained a phaser and the armour a transporter for itself? What was missing was either the jetpack or the anti-g belt to give the Dragonlord the ability to meet the dragons in their terrain. But don't forget that Blackmoor was nearly as good in magical as in technological matters. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 22:58:31 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Boltmen Although I like Alphatia, the sum total of my knowledge is a couple of old Dragon mags, modules like Vengeance of Alphaks and of course the PWAs. What are the Imperial Boltmen??? What are those "bolt gun" thingies??? Game stats, descriptions etc... please... ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 19:42:03 EDT From: BoBo II Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Mages - and war wizards In a message dated 4/17/98 1:19:10 AM, you wrote: <> Well, while wishes are fairly tightly reigned in by spell limitations, one avenue that the DnD version allows for is the wish substituting for lower level spells without too catastrophic a back-lash. Perhaps a theater-wide application of low level spells could slow, stop Ethie advances, at the right time, and right place. Also it might be used (DM's call) to extend the range of certain already existing spells (upping the horsepower, if you will. Other nasty applications at your discretion..... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 17:53:23 -0600 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA]-In search of modules Vogt, Vincent N >I am looking to purchase modules for Mystara. In particular I am looking for the B series. Also I am looking for the Champions of Mystara box set. >I anyone has these and are willing to sell please e-mail me at: vvogt667@uwsp.edu please include the price you are asking and your e-mail >address so I may reply. The links section of the Mystara Mailing List home page has a section devoted to online game stores that carry a decent selection of Mystara stuff, used and out of print. Some places have this stuff in mint condition, some even in shrinkwrap. The MML page can be found at... http://www.lesbois.com/members/malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com ICQ #4253672 "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 19:54:59 EDT From: BoBo II Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar In a message dated 4/17/98 5:43:21 AM, you wrote: <> I especially like the way it gave so many options for those who play elves to strongly deliniate their character from The Next Elf. It put more "character" in the character class. I felt that the Northern Reaches did a good job of trying to capture the "feel" of a place, and so did Ethengar, both much more so than Ylaruam ot Dawn of Emperors, though perhaps for pure "scope" DotE had too much to cover to do it all justice. Some of the later Hollow World books also did their particular cultures justice (Milleneans, Nithians, Azcans) and that kind of attention would have really improved the overall impact (and perhaps playability/popularity) of Ieriendi and Minrothad. I dont have any of the Arcane Age items for FR but some of their Wizard nations can help flesh out Alphatia. (El Quadim for Ylaruam, for tha matter) Ideas, anyone . . . *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 20:18:37 EDT From: BoBo II Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general debate In a message dated 4/17/98 9:58:15 AM, you wrote: <<9th Level? That's a little high even for D&D. IIRC the GSoM had no real graduation level. No one really ever graduated. At most, the grads were 1st thru 3rd level and came back to furhter their studies from time to time. IIRC one prerequisite to get in is a demo of magical ability by casting and recognizing a spell or two. Plus the students at the GSoM are not all Glantrians. Students come from all over Brun. >> PoG Gaz, pg 62 " Over time, the characters will rise in experience, becoming more and more formidable magic-users, until they reach 9th level and (we hope) graduate from the School." This quote, plus other signs (graduation exam, spells use by students in the text sections, spell reseach section, rate of expeience gained for NPC's in attendance) all lead me to believe that the GSoM is more than low level training. If I can stretch an anology, small kingdom hedge wizard went to community college, some attended fine/not so fine State Universtities or College, and some lucky few got to go to the GSoM, like "a Highly Selective University" as i believe the old college guides put it.. Like the Big Guys, it is tough to get in (family and money always help . . .sometimes talent), expensive to stay in, easy to fail if you goof off, and when you graduate you would enter into the job market with a lot of clout and connections in your chosen field. Of course, to the Alphatians, with their"OxfordsCambridges,Wittenbergs,Sorbonnes, etc" the GSoM looks like a quaint colonial trade school. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 21:08:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general debate At 05:33 PM 4/17/98 EDT, you wrote: ><< 9th Level? That's a little high even for D&D. IIRC the GSoM had no real ggraduation level. No one really ever graduated. At most, the grads were 1st thru 3rd level and came back to furhter their studies from time to time. IIRC one prerequisite to get in is a demo of magical ability by casting and recognizing a spell or two. Plus the students at the GSoM are not all Glantrians. Students come from all over Brun. >> >No, the big graduation test requires level 9, indeed. Of course a mage can visit more courses thereafter, as a good one never stops learning. I don't know what the boxed set for Glantri says, but the original GAZ3 states quite clearly that graduation requires 9th level; there's even a sample test provided; a 3rd level mage would be dead trying to go through that, no question. And it's not a simple test even for a name-level wizard, either. Anyone ever come up with another test idea for Glantrian graduates? The one they put in is cool, but it's only good once... Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 21:10:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar At 05:33 PM 4/17/98 EDT, you wrote: ><< Naturally, that's why I prefer Glantri with it's werewolves, vvampires, burning of clerics etc. Yup, if you want evil then it's sitting just west of Ethengar. But then the Ethengarians could be described as evil, butchering whole tribes who dare to disobey the Khan. >> >Hm, hm, yes, o.k.! We all have some little faults. Speak for yourself...Karameikos has taken great steps to eradicate the evil in our midst; the Black Eagle Baron is gone, as is his henchmage, Bargle. Along with them a lot of humanoid tribes in the swamp were destroyed (at no small cost) in battle. With the School of Magecraft, the Order of the Griffon, and the wisdom of our noble king, Karameikos is taking great strides to becoming a major power in the Known World. So don't mess with us. :-) Alexius Dannelaran, Knight of the Griffon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 21:12:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Englishmen??? At 05:33 PM 4/17/98 EDT, you wrote: >And don't forget that the Alphatian Imperial Navy (AIN) resembles to the USN in many ways. >OTOH Thyatis has some elements of US government. Like corrupt politicians and unfathomable bureaucracy? Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 02:27:56 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #225 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com Glen (Like I can talk; Canada's even worse in some ways...) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 23:07:02 -0400 From: Amaldis@concentric.net Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia, Thyatis, and the Night Spider <> Not at all, Alphatia was my favorite country on Mystara, and was replaced only by the New Alphatian Empire. I have always held a bias against Thyatis. The purpose of my post was to say that Alphatia is not the idyllic empire many on the list are painting it as. It IS expansionist(I don't see anything wrong with being expansionist though), the standard of living is high only for spellcasters(Darokin has the highest average standard of living in the Known World, and possibly all of Mystara), and it is not a "cool friendly place to be" if you are not a spellcaster. - -Amaldis *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 23:52:12 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Skills and Powers In a message dated 98-04-17 08:13:59 EDT, Magesmiley@aol.com writes: >Not sure if I would delete pick pockets for bards, this ability can also be uused as sort of a sleight of hand roll as well as its more larcenous uses. I was just going by my sources (in this case Bruce Heard's "Princess Ark" article addendum). But I do find it interesting that 2nd edition AD&D considers Pick Pockets as a basic Bard ability (assigning it to Bards as well as Thieves), while the various D&D supplements that mention Rakes and other "non-Thief Thieves" agree most in denying this ability to Thief variants. That is why a Mystaran (or more specifically, Robrennian) Bard would not cast spells or have all of the other AD&D abilities. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 23:52:19 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Mages - and war wizards In a message dated 98-04-17 13:08:22 EDT, solmyr@kolumbus.fi writes: >Well, something like "I wish ??? to be immediately teleported to the nnorthernmost reaches of Norwold", with ??? being Moglai Khan, Jamal, Akmad ibn Yussef, or whoever is causing the most trouble for the Glantrians. Yes, that could do it -- it is limited enough and clear enough that it shouldn't be too seriously perverted. Of course, this Wish would have to disable the Wizard who casts it for at least as long as it takes "???" to find his way back -- or be rescued by his hakomons. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 23:52:18 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: [MYSTARA] - Thincol (was Glantri vs Ethengar) In a message dated 98-04-17 12:01:20 EDT, jdaly@friend.ly.net writes: >Exactly. So when precisely did that adulterous power hungry schemer TThincol become a hero? When he rallied the gladiators and drove the Alphatians from Thyatis City. Deeds of that sort are the stuff of legends, even if the man behind the legends turns out to be lacking in character. You must admit -- as despicable a guy as he was, he was interesting, wasn't he? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 23:52:21 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: [MYSTARA] - Dragonlord trilogy mysteries (was Alphatians ARE the Nice Guys) In a message dated 98-04-17 14:37:29 EDT, jdaly@friend.ly.net writes: >Well, my feeling regarding those books is that the author was way too heavy hhanded about everything. Secrets were told right and left without any Mystaran mystery about anything. For instance, from the first mention of the Alphatians we knew they were from another world. Blackmoor was an ancient kingdom that had been destroyed. The Flaems came from the same world as the Alphatians. How would any of these things have been mysteries? Remember that the stories were told from the point of view of somebody who was raised among Flaems. Keeping the origins of the Alphatians and the Flaems a secret would have been difficult, especially when each group suddenly appeared out of nowhere on their first arrival. As for Blackmoor, the fact that it was an ancient kingdom destroyed in the Great Rain of Fire is the one thing that was commonly known about it. But there were some mysteries in the books -- for example, who and what was the main character? They did manage to keep that bit secret for a while, as I recall. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 23:52:24 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Mages - and war wizards In a message dated 98-04-17 17:54:00 EDT, JamugaKhan@aol.com writes: ><< Well, something like "I wish ??? to be immediately teleported to the nnorthernmost reaches of Norwold", with ??? being Moglai Khan, Jamal, Akmad ibn Yussef, or whoever is causing the most trouble for the Glantrians. >> >Saving throw! I didn't think of that -- for a Fighter of the level of most of these Ethengar leaders, any spell that allows a saving throw would be a wasted effort unless the spell still does something nasty if the saving throw succeeds. No, I would disallow the saving throw. What I would do is this: the affected character appears near a white dragon who happens to be in a good mood. If he handles himself well, he is soon on his way back to Ethengar on the back of a white dragon -- with several other white dragons flying alongside him. These dragons arrive in plenty of time to turn the tide back in favor of the Ethengars (whose offensive had stalled out but not yet been reversed during the few days he was gone). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 23:52:31 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia in the Hollow World In a message dated 98-04-17 17:55:12 EDT, JamugaKhan@aol.com writes: >Has the Spell of Preservation the same strength in all parts oof the HW? What if it is much weaker outside the Skyshield or even doesn't exist. Consider this for Alphatia! Nice try -- but the PWAs have the Spell of Preservation as existing even there, although events of WotI did weaken it a bit for all cultures in the Hollow World, not just for the newly arrived Alphatians. But from what I saw in the Hollow World boxed set, the effects of the Spell of Preservation seem to be strongest on primitive human cultures. Non-humans and technologically advanced humans receive few if any compensations, so they have far less incentive for maintaining cultural biases beyond the ones they would retain anyway. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 23:52:32 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Boltmen In a message dated 98-04-17 18:24:18 EDT, rmunch@easynet.co.uk writes: >What are the Imperial Boltmen??? What are those "bolt gun" thingies??? Game stats, descriptions etc... please... The boltmen are low level Mages wielding wands of magic missiles. I would assume that they are incapable of making their wands but can recharge them. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 23:57:37 EDT From: BoBo II Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general debate In a message dated 4/17/98 8:37:05 PM, you wrote: < Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Boltmen Boltmen are lowlevel MU's who are sailors on the Alphatian skyships who are armed with Regulation, Mark-1,Model-0 Wands of Lightningbolts, issued by the Navy. They were described in the Voyages of Princess Arc Dragon Mag. articles and in the Boxed set. I've asked the TSR people to put those articles on the website, but maybe more voices would help. . . *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 00:14:54 EDT From: BoBo II Subject: [MYSTARA] - "The sun never sets on the Alphatian Empire" There is that element of Alphatian authority, with rebelious Glantri as the upstart colony trying to emulate its former master. For good books that capture the life of the British navy at it's Imperial Height, try the works of Patrick O'Brian *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 01:43:39 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thincol (was Glantri vs Ethengar) Indeed. He was one of those leaders I loved to hate. I am busy now creating the "hero image" for my players so they can be aghast at his clay feet later... At 11:52 PM 4/17/98 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 98-04-17 12:01:20 EDT, jdaly@friend.ly.net writes: >>Exactly. So when precisely did that adulterous power hungry schemer TTThincol become a hero? >When he rallied the gladiators and drove the Alphatians from Thyatis City. Deeds of that sort are the stuff of legends, even if the man behind the legends turns out to be lacking in character. You must admit -- as despicable a guy as he was, he was interesting, wasn't he? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 02:27:24 EDT From: BoBo II Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] -A nation at war . . . In a message dated 4/17/98 9:58:15 AM, you wrote: <> Two of the main Houses, pre-Wrath, were . . . .drumroll. . . Alphatian. The Aendyrs were distantly related to the Alph. Imperial family. The "Forty Years war" was Imperial Alphatian army occupation of another Alphatian country. So, I presume they've inheritied alot. "Aalban mechinized machines are pretty much known for their "going crazy" and impractibility. They are toys, oddities, and focus of attention for Jaggar's son. Golems could work. " I beg to differ. One thing that made me want to try running my friends through the Glantri campaign of many years ago was the fun ,wild setting in general and in trying to set the tone, I often refered to a section in the Gaz called "Magic in Glantri" (p51-52) "Starting with middle class families and up to the noble households, licensed spellcasters are commonly hired to produce magical effects, both for comfort and social status. . . Do you need water? A small permanant gate to the plane of water opens into the kitchen. It is linked to various piese and faucets-this latest in magical technology can be installed in your own home for a modest 36 crowns!" = to about 1800gp, not cheap but less than a sailboat The text goes on to give examples of a fire elemantal water heater (10 crowns=2 suits of plate), , black pudding garbage disposals, floating disk designer furniture, reverse gravity elevator shafts, etc. So I imagine these kind of applications would go into the field with the troops . . . Water readily available, very mobile siege weapons that might reload themselves etc. two way crystal balls for field comanders to coordinate, blah blah. . . The fact that some of these might have the tendancy to turn on their owners is part of the fun for me. . . NOTE: It was this kind of detail that made the Gaz so much fun, and what was gnerally lacking in the Alphatia sections in DotE. I like Alphatia too but wasn't as impressed by the product. The TSR product "Magitech" had some of this feel to it, too. "The Mover's Guild and other cool little businesses are just that, businesses. These civilians would not be attuned to military actions. Moving a two headed demigorgon across town is different from taking said demigorgon into Ethie lands." In the event of a major war effort, think of how "pursuasive" the council could be to these businessmen. Many industries thrive on military contracts and always have. Many technological improvements in our own world in the early part of this century (and still to today) were first designed with military applications, and later adapted into civilian life (plastic, radar, off road vehicles, Global positioning satalites, telegraphs, advanced aerodynamics. . .MnM's!!) The first computers were developed to help artilary officers compute the math of firing angles. Now Glantri isn't this advanced socially as a society, but history has examples. Leonardo DeVinci (sp?) was a court inventor of weapons for the authorities, Daedalus made traps for the Thracean kings. But I can imagine the "lttle bussineses" profiting from transporting supplies, troops, etc while monsterhandlers could form special "basalisk brigades" etc. "Personally I would stay away from Wishes in such things. Gamewise it would be bad as Wishes are too omnipotent." True, it would undoubtably incur . . .The Wrath of the Immortals! [sorry, couldn't help it} Help me out gang and lay some Clerical magic on me to help ballance the battlefield, also to look at how the Huleans or Heldanners would use it in the field. Earthquake, Animate Objects on the dreaded Ethengar Shamanistic War Yurts. . Silence '15 Radius and Dispell Magic, staples of daily prayer in Western Ethengar. How 'bout Wizardry, with some captured devices . . .ouch. ("Hoist with their own petard") Plus the nasty habit of casualties coming back to life. . . *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #225 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Saturday, April 18 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 226 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Mystics [MYSTARA] - Thincol and Eriadna Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general debate Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Gaz (was Re: Glantri vs Ethengar) Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia, Thyatis, and the Night Spider Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatians ARE the Nice Guys Re: [MYSTARA] - Oh No!! Ethengar vs. the Known World Agian Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general debate Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general debate Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatians ARE the Nice Guys Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Boltmen Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general debate Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragonlord trilogy mysteries (was Alphatians ARE the Nice Guys) Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general debate Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia, Thyatis, and the Night Spider Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatian Politicmen??? Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatians ARE the Nice Guys Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general debate [MYSTARA] - extremely old digests (1997, April to December) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 02:33:48 EDT From: BoBo II Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mystics Do the Ethengarians have Mystics in their midst? I personally don't care for them being introduced into any ol' cultural group. In my campaign I felt should they be saved for use in Ochalea . . . But if they have Mystics, and they were settled by non-magical Alphatians, then that means that perhaps Alphatians. . .which means Glantrians . . .Shepherds of Rad could be. . .nah, forget it. But the Hospice at Lhamsa is composed of Mystics, so could this be a tie to further campaign themes, oh Gazeteer-authors? Where does The Great Saffron Mystic fit into the world of AC 1015? side note: In my campaign, mostly at the insistence of my normally-fighter- playing-brother, I allowed some MU's to have very rudimentary, mystic-like, hand-to-hand fighting skills. I decided it was a special skill that certain, more physically fit students might pursue to stay in shape, focus their minds, and put belligerent mundaners on their tails. I liked the idea as it made more "aesthetic sense" for me to see a mage defend himself openhanded, instead of with a dagger. I would use striking Mastery today, if I had to do it again. I freely lifted this idea from the Eaters of Wisdom from the old Divine Right board game. Made them another secret society in Glantri (all Known World?) who wandered, seeking knowledge, both general and magical. Something like a cross between a haughty, magic-wielding National Geographic Society and the worst excesses of the British National Museum. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 12:47:48 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Thincol and Eriadna Concerning Thincol - I reckon that he was one of the coolest NPCs in the entire campaign (he hasnt died yet in mine, being set around 1005AC). He was excellent - he had everyone thinking that he was the good guy (including the PCs) but behind the scenes he was actually a power hungry immoral nutter... The PCs were shocked when they found an autobiography of Thincol in the library at Thothia entitled "All Mine", where Thincol detailed how he kept the war in the Isle of Dawn going, despite ancient treaties... They were so surprised they thought it was a trick by the "evil" Alphatians!!! I changed the Talons of Night ending a little too - the part where Thincol and Eriadna end up in the "undead" version of Mystara - probably a little demiplane belonging to Nyx. In the module time flows differently there, and by the PCs rescue Thincol and Eriadna they have died of old age (leaving a clonable piece of flesh behind). However, before they die Thincol and Eriadna fall in love (Thincol does have a heart, somewhere) and set up the Empire of Thypatia in the demiplane. I had Eriadna turn herself into a lich, get rescued by the party and get wished back into a living human again. But Thincol, not being able to turn into a lich, was cloned... So Thincol cant remember any of it, but Eriadna can remember being in love with him... A bit of a tragic story that I think... Kindof justifies why squads of high level Alphatian mages didnt kill Thincol off (in the same manner of this Glantri vs Ethengar discussion). I also like the way Thincol died. I think in a way, he repented a bit at the end. I think his death was really sad - he died a broken man - and all because he pissed Vanya off by suing for peace. Awww. There was certainly a big funeral for the Great Man. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 12:11:59 +0100 From: "alistairhall" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general debate >Alphatian Imperial Boltmen are expensive to maintain. The wands cost money. >Those mages rise in XP level, so I assume turnover rate is high. Boltmen are a >neccessity as it is in their hands that those expensive (even by Alphatian >standards) skyships are protected. if i recall correctly the glantrian constabulary are similarly equiped,so i don't see any reason why the army can't be, after all most armies have better fire power than the cops in their own countries. ><military application i.e.. monster handlers' syndicate, Aalbanian magically >driven "machines", Movers' guild. . . >> >Aalban mechinized machines are pretty much known for their "going crazy" and >impractibility. They are toys, oddities, and focus of attention for Jaggar's >son. Golems could work. >The Mover's Guild and other cool little businesses are just that, businesses. >These civilians would not be attuned to military actions. Moving a two headed >demigorgon across town is different from taking said demigorgon into Ethie >lands. their have been incidents in our own history where private buisinesses and persons have proved very effective in aiding the military, in logistical nightmares, for example the evacuation of the troops from the beaches at dunkirk, in the north of france,by a flotilla of small privately owned boats,passenger ships and naval vessels. ><plenty of firepower to be conscripted. Also, these young guns might be looking >to establish themselves in the eyes of the council and the indepedant mayhem >these aspiring nobles could cause is truly frightening. Sure, many of these >unorganized efforts will have mages overstep themselves and get killed/captured, but the survivors will have proven their toughness. . .>> >9th Level? That's a little high even for D&D. IIRC the GSoM had no real graduation level. No one really ever graduated. At most, the grads were 1st >thru 3rd level and came back to furhter their studies from time to time. IIRC >one prerequisite to get in is a demo of magical ability by casting and recognizing a spell or two. Plus the students at the GSoM are not all Glantrians. Students come from all over Brun. on page 62 of the gazetteer it says: over time the characters will rise in experience, becoming more and more formidable magic-users,until they reach 9th level and(we hope) graduate from the school. the sample graduation in the adventures section also has the characters at 9th level. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 12:19:45 +0100 From: "alistairhall" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar >Alas, more Thyatian propaganda >>has diluted the perceived rationality of the Alphatian people. Anything the >>Alphatians can be accused of the Glantrians bear equal blame. And I am not >>even going to start on Thyatis. :-) >Exactly. So when precisely did that adulterous power hungry schemer Thincol become a hero? when other adulterous power hungry schemers started to look up to him as a symbol of what they could become. jobo. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 09:06:27 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Gaz (was Re: Glantri vs Ethengar) In a message dated 98-04-17 11:55:57 EDT, you write: << >Ah, but if Geoff, Alex, and I have anything to say about it, THAT will cchange soon! How goes the further development of the 'Alphatian' Gaz anyway? Jenni >> Well, I'd like to say that Randel was almost done. It is. However, I have fallen upon another problem previously hinted at but back with a vengence: overkill. I keep adding and adding to the description, broadening its already ponderous bulk. For instance, a NPC has become a subject for debate. Some of the AOL people may remember "The Ongoing Story" on the old boards. Well, one of TYGHOCK's characters from his portion of the story seemed quite fitting for one of my NPCs. There was some delay as I waited to gain permission to use the character. Then there was some discussion on her and how to adapt her to be Alphatian. NPC history, personality, rerasoning, xp level, and aspects of a certain Immortal enchanted sword which acts as a conduit for the soul of a dead lover all had to be ironed out. I am keeping most NPCs fairly simple. Name, sex, class, and level; followed by a brief description. More prominent NPCs do get a bigger description. If things go as expected, I hope to have a draft ready by Monday. All that have displayed interest are on the current list for a sneak preveiw. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 09:29:28 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia, Thyatis, and the Night Spider In a message dated 98-04-17 14:12:08 EDT, you write: << <> Yeah, a cool friendly place to be, where non-spellcasting citizens are relegated to second class citizenship or slavery with no chance of self improvement, and can be killed by spellcasting citizens with minimal retribution. >> And what can nonspellcasters in Glantri expect? At the best, about the same. And no goodly clerics (nor bad ones) to do good cleric deeds. Good citizens are taxed out the whazzoo to finance the whims of the ruling mages. Who squander their finances and time in petty rivalries which equate little. Oh and did I forget possessing an artifact that can and most probably will suck Mystara dry of magic. And then there is corrupt Thyatis with its eyes on every nation for the Imperial Fold. A place where even honest citizens can find themselves slaves at the whim of a powerful and/or well connected Thyatian (DDA1). <> I agree, NACE is a kinder gentler Alphatia. Nonspellcasters should have more influence than they have had in the past out of neccessity. <> Yes, Thyatis would be a loner of sorts regarding slavery. And given the economic situation, I doubt it will change any time soon. <> Funny I was pondering this the other day. I had just looked over the newly arrived Talons and wondered as to a reoccuring role as villian. Especially in any context with Randel (post Wrath) . Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 10:06:29 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatians ARE the Nice Guys In a message dated 98-04-17 14:37:45 EDT, you write: << Speaking of which, does anyone get the feeling the author just "didn't get it" concerning Blackmoor's techno empire? I mean, the sword and armor from that trilogy just did not have a technological feel to me at all. Admittedly, the fellow could have been making an attempt to be subtle since the characters should not know what tech is...but-->> I have to agree. Reading the books I felt I was being talked down to as is the case with an adult berating a child. Or at least watching an Anime style cartoon, where everything is explained. I suspect the explanation part derided from the popularity of Tom Clancy novels of the period. However, what's his name (author) did not do this well. His method was even inconsistant. Where one journey would be detailed to the point of curing insomnia, other portions were quick and involved a paragraph at the most. Almost seemed rushed at some parts. Then there was the sudden realization and divulgence of info to support the plot. A plot which IMO was alterred by either the author or his handlers several times before the books were finished. <> Oh I agree. To much info was too easily given out. And not only from a narrative/reader point of veiw but the characters knew this stuff. And Dragonlord painted the Alphatians as sneaky and coniving (in a bad way) whereas the Glantri had faults but were not really that bad. C'mon the Flaems and Alphatians are the same. The difference being the Alphatians have established themselves quite well (Trilogy period) and had not pursued the war against the hated Flaems. While the Flaem were a backward people striving for power to conquer the world as well as the Alphatians. <> I agree. <> I noticed this but chalked it up as the Blackmoor in the DA series, just about the time the City of the Gods was discovered and plundered. A sort of appex of non tech Blackmoor magic. A testamament of Blackmoor's past where it used sword and sorcery to survive. The armour was definetly magical and not technical. I also did not like the sword. Too much of a missile weapon with its bolts of power. I would have liked to seen the weapon and armour being used more traditionally, in the hands of a capable warrior. But anyway, I am rambling. Let us just say that IMO the Trilogy was just a portion of the nails in Mystara's coffin. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 10:35:49 EDT Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 14:25:46 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #226 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Oh No!! Ethengar vs. the Known World Agian In a message dated 98-04-17 17:52:52 EDT, you write: << > NOTE: DUE TO SPACE CONSIDERATIONS, CERTAIN PARTS SNIPPED. >OTHERWISE THIS WOULD >HAVE TO BE BROKEN UP INTO TWO MAILS. that's all good.>> Or I could have sent it as an evil attachment and incured the wrath of the List. I chose to snip to avoid the wrath of Leroy. :-) <> Mainly for time and bandwidth reasons. To be honest, I am growing sick of all of this. I make one comment about the stalemate and it balloons into this. That in itself is not a problem. The problem is that I find myself repeating the same responses over and over. It is getting old. Despite my fears, I will respond to the attachment. That is portions that have not been addressed previously. If no mention is made or a section is snipped and not included, assume that that portion has already been addressed in a previous perspective. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 10:43:32 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general debate In a message dated 98-04-17 17:53:21 EDT, you write: << << 9th Level? That's a little high even for D&D. IIRC the GSoM had no real graduation level. No one really ever graduated. At most, the grads were 1st thru 3rd level and came back to furhter their studies from time to time. IIRC one prerequisite to get in is a demo of magical ability by casting and recognizing a spell or two. Plus the students at the GSoM are not all Glantrians. Students come from all over Brun. >> No, the big graduation test requires level 9, indeed. Of course a mage can visit more courses thereafter, as a good one never stops learning.>> Jamuga Khan Really...I was not aware of that graduation level. I had assumed the GSoM had an apprentice training program, but assumed it to be minor, with nobles seeking initiation into magecraft via family. Mages would use the GSoM as a research library of sorts. Mages from all over the KW come to further their knowledge or research a particular spell or enchanted item. Thanks. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 10:48:14 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general debate In a message dated 98-04-17 17:53:46 EDT, you write: << << Thyatis has the Protectorate of Scalaras (sp) in which the top 250 36th level mages of Thyatis live. >> And what do you believe, how many cleric of level 36 live in Thyatis? I know one... >> Off hand, I can name none. Off hand I can only name one 36th level mage. But the protectorate is mentioned in Dawn of the Emperors and therefore acceptable info or dare I say Canon. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 10:58:58 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatians ARE the Nice Guys In a message dated 98-04-17 17:56:34 EDT, you write: << << I couldnt agree more. The Alphatians were made out to be completely thick and 100% at the mercy of a bunch of dragons (I dont think so!!! - Alphatia vs 2000 dragons at the height of Alphatian power? Dragons LOSE (they did against Blackmoor)). >> Against the WHOLE empire perhaps, but probably most Alphatians didn't participate in this war. >> Well, according to the Trilogy (grimace) the Alphatians did mobilize 500+ warships to reinvade Norwold. That's one hell of an amphibious force. So the will of the Empire was evident. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 11:06:34 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Boltmen In a message dated 98-04-17 18:24:05 EDT, you write: << Although I like Alphatia, the sum total of my knowledge is a couple of old Dragon mags, modules like Vengeance of Alphaks and of course the PWAs. What are the Imperial Boltmen??? What are those "bolt gun" thingies??? Game stats, descriptions etc... please... ROB >> Well, from memory........ Alphatian Boltmen are the spellcasting Marines of the Air Navy. Most are low level mages and carry a wand. IIRC the wands are broken down to cast one of three spells: Magic Missile, Lightening Bolt, and FireBall. There may be other types also. The wands are recharged by the Master Boltman, a higher level mage who acts as a sergeant. Spells are as a normal cast spell. The Fireball depends on the enchanter that created the wand. IIRC the Boltmen are described in Champions of Mystara. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 11:20:12 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general debate In a message dated 98-04-17 20:36:38 EDT, you write: << <<9th Level? That's a little high even for D&D. IIRC the GSoM had no real graduation level. No one really ever graduated. At most, the grads were 1st thru 3rd level and came back to furhter their studies from time to time. IIRC one prerequisite to get in is a demo of magical ability by casting and recognizing a spell or two. Plus the students at the GSoM are not all Glantrians. Students come from all over Brun. >> PoG Gaz, pg 62 " Over time, the characters will rise in experience, becoming more and more formidable magic-users, until they reach 9th level and (we hope) graduate from the School.">> There lays the problem. I do not have the Glantri Gaz. I have to use G:KoM. <> It is my understanding from G:KoM that luck has very little to do in gaining admitance. One needs the cash to pay the tuition and the basic understanding to pass the required queries. One does not even have to be from Glantri. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 11:30:18 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragonlord trilogy mysteries (was Alphatians ARE the Nice Guys) In a message dated 98-04-18 00:15:39 EDT, you write: << But there were some mysteries in the books -- for example, who and what was the main character? They did manage to keep that bit secret for a while, as I recall. >> [In nonspoiler mode for those they have not read the trilogy.] I assume you mean a certain young lad's true nature. But the author only did pull that off by placing false info which could be taken as the truth. By this I mean Sir George saying that he was not this race...but might be this race. Even going as far as to say he was not. While later admiting he knew it all along but had sworn not to reveal it. Halfway through the first novel I said to myself what Thelvyn was, but statements by Sir George indicated that was not the case. The Trilogy has its faults. IMO the story was half decent. Its plot could have been narrowed to use just one novel or could have been broadened to use up to five novels. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 12:26:53 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general debate << Off hand, I can name none. Off hand I can only name one 36th level mage. But the protectorate is mentioned in Dawn of the Emperors and therefore acceptable info or dare I say Canon. >> Here is the man: General Thyarius Palykratidius is the leader of the Kerendan cavalary academy and a level 36 cleric of Vanya. Poor Wulf von Klagenfurt! Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 12:26:52 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia, Thyatis, and the Night Spider << << Yeah, a cool friendly place to be, where non-spellcasting citizens are relegated to second class citizenship or slavery with no chance of self improvement, and can be killed by spellcasting citizens with minimal retribution. >> And what can nonspellcasters in Glantri expect? At the best, about the same. And no goodly clerics (nor bad ones) to do good cleric deeds. Good citizens are taxed out the whazzoo to finance the whims of the ruling mages. Who squander their finances and time in petty rivalries which equate little. Oh and did I forget possessing an artifact that can and most probably will suck Mystara dry of magic. And then there is corrupt Thyatis with its eyes on every nation for the Imperial Fold. A place where even honest citizens can find themselves slaves at the whim of a powerful and/or well connected Thyatian (DDA1). >> In most countries it is very difficult to leave a low social standing and achieve a better status. In some Mystaran countries it's written in stone, that's the difference, but I sincerely believe that after DoE TSR improved the chances of Alphatian non-spellcasters. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 12:26:47 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatian Politicmen??? << >OTOH Thyatis has some elements of US government. Like corrupt politicians and unfathomable bureaucracy? Glen >> Even that! And Check and balance! Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 12:26:54 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatians ARE the Nice Guys << Well, according to the Trilogy (grimace) the Alphatians did mobilize 500+ warships to reinvade Norwold. That's one hell of an amphibious force. So the will of the Empire was evident. Alex >> Manned by fighters? With too Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." few magical equipment? Dragons can really be devastating, even without the abilities of this AD&D/Dragonlance dragons. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 12:26:51 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar << Speak for yourself...Karameikos has taken great steps to eradicate the evil in our midst; the Black Eagle Baron is gone, as is his henchmage, Bargle. Along with them a lot of humanoid tribes in the swamp were destroyed (at no small cost) in battle. With the School of Magecraft, the Order of the Griffon, and the wisdom of our noble king, Karameikos is taking great strides to becoming a major power in the Known World. So don't mess with us. :-) Alexius Dannelaran, Knight of the Griffon >> Oh no, this noble humpty-dumpty Karameikan knight again! First hand Duke/King Stefan needed 40 years to see how evil Ludwig was although nearly everybody else knew it. And the he betrayed his baron and cousin to this foul-minded halflings and did nothing to defend the borders of his kingdom. Additionally he betrayed Emperor Thincol Torion to Alphatia and made Karameikos a Alphatian colony. Is this your idea of greatness and leadership? Jamuga Khan "Fear, Karameikos, the day when you hear the hooves of our warhorses trampling your pride into the dust." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 19:17:24 +0100 From: "alistairhall" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general debate ><< Off hand, I can name none. Off hand I can only name one 36th level mage. >But >the protectorate is mentioned in Dawn of the Emperors and therefore acceptable >info or dare I say Canon. >> >Here is the man: General Thyarius Palykratidius is the leader of the Kerendan cavalary academy and a level 36 cleric of Vanya. >Poor Wulf von Klagenfurt! thats von klagendorf. jobo *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 11:25:26 PDT From: "Coreil Inveir" Subject: [MYSTARA] - extremely old digests (1997, April to December) Does anyone know how to get copies of these April 97 to December 97 mystara-digests? I need these and can't find them ANYWHERE! Leroy, Geoff, someone! Help! (Thank you most graciously in advance.) PS: Shawn- I'm compiling all of your articles into a Microsoft Word file. I'll check back to the list in a few days/weeks and tell everyone how it's coming. It may be done by then. ~ Never forget that long ago our world prospered, and one day it may well do the same again. - -Coreil Inveir coreil@hotmail.com http://www.angelfire.com/co/coreil ~ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #226 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Sunday, April 19 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 227 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general debate Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general debate Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general debate Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia, Thyatis, and the Night Spider Re: [MYSTARA] - extremely old digests (1997, April to December) Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general debate Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia, Thyatis, and the Night Spider [MYSTARA] - Skills and Powers with Elves Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia, Thyatis, and the Night Spider Re: [MYSTARA] - extremely old digests (1997, April to December) Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills and Powers with Elves Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general debate Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general debate Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general debate Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Clerics at war. Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatians ARE the Nice Guys Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Clerics at war. Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia, Thyatis, and the Night Spider Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance (was PC1 and Alfheim) Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 14:50:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar At 12:26 PM 4/18/98 EDT, you wrote: >Oh no, this noble humpty-dumpty Karameikan knight again! Hey! At least I bathed a few times this year, stinky. :-) >First hand Duke/King Stefan needed 40 years to see how evil Ludwig was although nearly everybody else knew it. The King is a good man; perhaps too good in some ways. Yes, he was unable to see his cousin's evil nature. But he did make what amends he could in the end. As Patriarch Sherlane is fond of saying, "Better late than never." >And the he betrayed his baron and cousin to this foul-minded halflings and did nothing to defend the borders of his kingdom. The hin of the Shires are a good folk who have been allies of Karameikos for a long time. They were badly treated by the Black Eagle Baron, and King Stefan thought it would be poetic justice to allow the hin to deal with the Baron. After all, they had suffered greatly at his hands. As for defending our borders, the hin were not invading Karameikos; they were invading the Black Eagle Barony in a war of liberation. The common people of the Barony were not unhappy to see the hin armies approach. As well, many Karamekian adventurers (including myself) were present , both to observe and to contain the violence within the Barony's borders. >Additionally he betrayed Emperor Thincol Torion to Alphatia and made Karameikos a Alphatian colony. Is this your idea of greatness and leadership? King Stefan had to make a difficult decision; the war was in full swing, and there were two main fronts; the Thyatis/Alphatian front gets the most attention from historians, but the second front in Darokin was at least as important to the survival of the entire region. Darokin is a major economic player, and the primary agricultural nation in the Known World. The Hordes of the desert riders were intent on destroying as much of it as they could. This would have thrown the entire Known World into famine and chaos, even without the Alphatian/Thyatis war still going on. Therefore King Stefan had to look to the west. Thyatis was still able to continue their war against Alphatia. The Karamekian armies were not numerous enough to make much of a difference in that war. But in Darokin we turned the tide, and turned back the nomads. The negotiations with Alphatia were another matter; King Stefan was looking to the future, and saw the opportunity to improve Karameikos' standing in the nations of the Known World. We have always been seen as an adjunct to Thyatis, although we have been independent since the day King Stefan first set foot on the docks of Specularum. By renaming the Grand Duchy a Kingdom, and breaking ties to Thyatis, he made it clear to all that Karameikos was in command of its own destiny. The Alphatians also helped us in constructing the School of Magecraft, which will add to our strength as time goes by. These things were done for the benefit of Karameikos, not for Thyatis. We are not Thyatians anymore; though my family descends from a great Thyatian house, I am Karamekian. My wife was born of a Traladaran family, but she too was Karamekian. Had we been fortunate enough to have any children, they would have been Karamekian, not Thyatian or Traladaran. That is how His Majesty wishes it to be in our great land. So deal with it. Karameikos rules! Alexius Dannelaran, Knight of the Griffon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 14:58:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general debate At 07:17 PM 4/18/98 +0100, you wrote: >>Here is the man: General Thyarius Palykratidius is the leader of the Kerendan cavalary academy and a level 36 cleric of Vanya. >>Poor Wulf von Klagenfurt! >thats von klagendorf. There's another Thyatian military leader who is a 36th level cleric; Admiral Helena Daphnotarthius, who was in command of Thyatis' expedition to Aegos in 1010 to take control of the Hollow World shaft. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 16:21:17 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general debate << > Poor Wulf von Klagenfurt! thats von klagendorf. jobo >> Your're right! How could this happen? I hope I didn't confuse too much people. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 16:21:23 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general debate << There's another Thyatian military leader who is a 36th level cleric; Admiral Helena Daphnotarthius, who was in command of Thyatis' expedition to Aegos in 1010 to take control of the Hollow World shaft. Glen >> By far not! She was level 20! Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 16:21:33 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar << So deal with it. Karameikos rules! Alexius Dannelaran, Knight of the Griffon >> Never mind! Enjoy your independency as long as you can. A personal advice: Improve your riding abilities! When the Khanate Karameikos will have been founded we might find a task for you. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 16:33:29 -0400 From: Amaldis@concentric.net Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia, Thyatis, and the Night Spider <> Considering that in Alphatia the various kingdoms sometimes went to war against each other, Alphatia had its own petty rivalries too. <<<> And what can nonspellcasters in Glantri expect? At the best, about the same.>> As far as I know, slavery is only practiced in Boldavia, and it is not widely know. <> When Eriadna told Haldemar that the Hollow World was going to be Alphatia's, was she speaking from a higher moral ground than Thyatis' own desires for the Hollow World? Also, Thyatis is not interested in conquering every nation, just the ones they could make a profit on(which is why they never tried to move into Ne'er-do-well). Why do so many people on this list hate Thyatis so much? I thought my dislike of Thyatis was severe, but it pales in comparison to the views I have seen here. Here are some "good" things Thyatis did: 1)By halting Alphatia's advance into Brun, Thyatis helped small, relatively weak cultures, to establish themselves in what became the "Known World." 2)Because of Thyatis, elements of Millenian civilization and culture have been spread to Brun(the Millenians themselves spread it to Skothar, in what is now Mineae). 3)Thyatians have spread throughout southeastern Brun, and have left a sense of unity to much of the Known World(in the same way that the Romans gave a sense of unity to Europe; sure Europeans fight each other all the time, but the countries of Europe all have a great deal in common, such as Christianity). - -Amaldis *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 16:56:12 -0400 From: robertn Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - extremely old digests (1997, April to December) Coreil Inveir wrote: >Does anyone know how to get copies of these April 97 to December 97 mystara-digests? I need these and can't find them ANYWHERE! Leroy, Geoff, someone! Help! >(Thank you most graciously in advance.) >PS: Shawn- I'm compiling all of your articles into a Microsoft Word file. I'll check back to the list in a few days/weeks and tell everyone how it's coming. It may be done by then. >~ >Never forget that long ago our world prospered, and one day it may well do the same again. >-Coreil Inveir >coreil@hotmail.com >http://www.angelfire.com/co/coreil >~ >______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. unsubscribe mystara-1 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 17:33:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general debate At 04:21 PM 4/18/98 EDT, you wrote: >Your're right! How could this happen? >I hope I didn't confuse too much people. Actually, I thought it was a joke; maybe you were insulting him. I thought it was funny... Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 16:41:56 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia, Thyatis, and the Night Spider Don't especially hate Thyatis, just what it's become. It's a very pale Roman Empire wannabe. There's never been anything exactly imperial about it except it's need for land and stand-off with Alphatia. Now it's weak and Alphatia's gone, it has no direction. It absorbs other cultures into its own but doesn't seem to present a culture itself. It's greatest years are behind it and it knows. It should have been one of the most central cultures of Brun but it's been passed by every other nation. It simply has no character. While it did good things, these weren't part of an overall plan or vision. Thyatis just happened to be in the right spot at the right time. If you check on the TSR message boards, you'll see where I questioned if Thyatis was created with the Byzantium or Roman Empire in mind. To me, it seems Rome had much more influence in Thyatis (especially the later Empire). Amaldis@concentric.net wrote: >Why do so many people on this list hate Thyatis so much? I thought my dislike of Thyatis was severe, but it pales in comparison to the views I have seen here. Here are some "good" things Thyatis did: - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 16:44:21 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: [MYSTARA] - Skills and Powers with Elves Kaviyd: I'm wanting to try a S&P conversion for Mystaran elves. Have you done any thing towards that yet? - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 23:32:38 +0100 From: "alistairhall" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia, Thyatis, and the Night Spider >3)Thyatians have spread throughout southeastern Brun, and have left a sense of unity to much of the Known World(in the same way that the Romans gave a sense of unity to Europe; sure Europeans fight each other all the time, but the countries of Europe all have a great deal in common, such as Christianity). >-Amaldis yes indeed, and this has been the source of many of the conflicts, or at least a readily available excuse for them. (the christianity bit i mean.) so while there may be a sense of unity to the area, there is also a large degree of antagonism towards the thyatians. put it this way-just because the roman empire gave a sense of unity to much of southern europe, it didn,t make the romans any more popular. most people would have hated the fact they had been conquered,and any nations they attempted to conquer but never succeeded wouldn't have liked them overly much either jobo *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 18:33:11 -0400 From: robertn Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - extremely old digests (1997, April to December) robertn wrote: >Coreil Inveir wrote: >>Does anyone know how to get copies of these April 97 to December 97 mystara-digests? I need these and can't find them ANYWHERE! Leroy, Geoff, someone! Help! >>(Thank you most graciously in advance.) >>PS: Shawn- I'm compiling all of your articles into a Microsoft Word file. I'll check back to the list in a few days/weeks and tell everyone Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 05:31:06 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #227 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com >>how it's coming. It may be done by then. >>~ >>Never forget that long ago our world prospered, and one day it may well do the same again. >>-Coreil Inveir >>coreil@hotmail.com >>http://www.angelfire.com/co/coreil >>~ >>______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. uunsubscribe mystara-1 >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. unsubscirbe mystara-1 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 18:48:23 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills and Powers with Elves In a message dated 98-04-18 18:04:11 EDT, galwylin@airnet.net writes: >Kaviyd: >I'm wanting to try a S&P conversion for Mystaran elves. Have you done any thing towards that yet? Not much. I was leaning towards giving them the Mage ability of "Armored Wizard" as a racial ability. At the very least they would be deprived of the 90% resistance to sleep and charm to compensate -- perhaps the bow and/or sword bonuses should be removed as well. But that is as far as I have gotten. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 19:29:45 EDT From: BoBo II Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general debate In a message dated 4/18/98 10:39:12 AM, you wrote: <> I just ment lucky in the sense of "fortunate." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 00:35:35 EDT From: BoBo II Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general debate As set up in the Gaz. the nobles were already m-u's and set kids for training. The school in Gaz. is set up as different from reg. mage training. I am not familiar with G:KoM. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 02:16:37 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general debate In a message dated 98-04-18 12:43:24 EDT, you write: >Off hand, I can name none. Off hand I can only name one 36th level mage. But >the protectorate is mentioned in Dawn of the Emperors and therefore acceptable >info or dare I say Canon. >> yours truly <> JKhan Forgot about him. I was thinking of the leader of the Gray Lady or one of the patriarchs of Vanya's other followings. Thanks for pointing the way. I doubt I would have looked beyond Thyatis City's description when looking for the 36th level cleric. << Poor Wulf von Klagenfurt! >> JKhan Which brings up an interesting question. What does an Immortal do when two of its follower peoples wage war? Does the Immortal grant spells to both sides' clerics? Does the Immortal block sides from both? If one side is in the wrong in the Immortal's opinion then the answer is obvious. But what if neither can transfix blame. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 02:26:53 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Clerics at war. Vanya is the Immortal of conquest. The people of Randel are a warrior code and act as the persona; sword and sheild of the Imperial Court. In my Randel deal, I have used a goodly number of clerics. Most serve Razud or Alphatia. But I wanted a more war centered Immortal patron. Vanya fits the bill. I see little reason why she could not have a following in Alphatia, a conquest orinted people. The only real reason that comes to mind is that Vanya sided agains Alphatia, or more correctly sided with Thyatis. But even this is not a real problem as Asterius was also sided with Rad and is followed in Alphatia. IIRC aside from WotI Vanya has no beef against the Alphatian people. She is also known for favoring the conquering warriors. Randel is a militeristic kingdom. So what do yall think? Clerics of Vanya in Alphatia. How about Vanya being revered under another name? Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 02:31:12 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatians ARE the Nice Guys In a message dated 98-04-18 12:43:49 EDT, you write: << << Well, according to the Trilogy (grimace) the Alphatians did mobilize 500+ warships to reinvade Norwold. That's one hell of an amphibious force. So the will of the Empire was evident. Alex >> Manned by fighters? With too >> Not sure. I would assume wizards too filled the ranks. The Alphatian settlement the dragons destroyed early in the Trilogy had a mages. Also IIRC the Trilogy said that the Alphatian armada was composed of the extreme bulk of the Alphatian War Machine. Somethoing about every available man and woman. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 02:58:16 EDT From: BoBo II Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Clerics at war. Vanya forcing her followers to duke it out, to see who's tougher, culling the herd as it were.? I don't know. Maybe as her clerics take part in the conflict and her followers are put to the test, spell access will fluctuate as she feels each side is doing its part. Scary thought, but it would be a way for her to give her followers a pretty strong barometer of where they stand in her favor. This kind of same- diety-different army conflict might breed a nasty Inquisition-style effort to make sure that each army stayed in line. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 03:41:32 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia, Thyatis, and the Night Spider In a message dated 98-04-18 16:45:34 EDT, Amaldis writes: <<>Good citizens are taxed out the whazzoo to finance the whims of the rruling mages. Who squander their finances and time in petty rivalries which equate little.>> Considering that in Alphatia the various kingdoms sometimes went to war against each other, Alphatia had its own petty rivalries too.>> They are Alphatians. Boys will be boys. And in my Randel and JDaly's Bettellyn the wars are as much a game as anything else. Other than the Bettellyn/Randel raids there are few accounts of inter warring. Personal rivalries are a different matter. And mage duels are set up so little harm can befall bystanders (Duel Shield). IMO Alphatia is pretty stable in regards to inter Empire matters. Compared to Thyatis, Glantri, Minrothad, Karameikos, Ylaruam, and Sind/Hule things are really hunky dorey. <<>Yeah, a cool friendly place to be, where non-spellcasting citizens aare >relegated to second class citizenship or slavery with no chance of self improvement, and can be killed by spellcasting citizens with minimal retribution.>> amaldis? ><> me <>amaldis Actually I was focusing on the treatment of the nonspellcasting populace of Glantri. Basically it is "if you ain't a mage, you ain't crap". Even the populace is devoid (officially) of clerics who would do much to alleive the problems, at least providing spiritual help. Taxed out the whazzoo, second class citizens, and so on is not a far shot from slavery. More likely commoners fall into a serf like role, as they basically provide for the ruling mages. Funny you bring up the Alphatian commoners stagnancy. IIRC the Alphatian GAZ states that Old Alphatia mundaners were not veiwed as being handicapped. Instead they were encouraged to strive to acheive the most of what their nonspellcasting selves could. This is something I wished to dwell upon in the Randel description. Fairer treatment is also seen in other Alphatian kingdoms. In canon text, they are second class, but they are not "untouchables". >And then there is corrupt Thyatis with its eyes on every nation for the >Imperial Fold.>> <> What was Eriadna's motives when speaking with Haldemar? I have no idea. Off hand I would say expansionism and countering the Heldannic presence. The HW cultures are backwards thanks to the SoP. Conquest would be easier for the more advanced Alphatians. That is if they can meet the logistical problems of pre Wrath and later status of Alphatia as a floating continent. IMO Eriadna's post Wrath stance was a fit of emotion. Given time, the old Alphatian attitudes should resurface and the Empire will look at HW in a different light. Thyatis wants to expand the Empire. True efficiency plays in conquests. The WDL has done much to remove further Thyatian expansion on Brun. In its prime Thyatis may have said "screw it" and butted heads with the WDL. But now the economic aspects and the depleted army neccessitate caution. PWAs are quite obvious in Thyatis's want of Serainne, Ierendi, and Minrothad. << Why do so many people on this list hate Thyatis so much? I thought my dislike of Thyatis was severe, but it pales in comparison to the views I have seen here. >> Actually I do not hate Thyatis. I am not fond of the Empire but who is. When working on Hydra I caught hell for taking Thyatis's side. To an Alphatian fan this was strange. <> True the Thyatian uprising stopped Alphatian expansionism. But which Empire is known more for assimilating cultures? Alphatia pretty much leaves theexisting cultures intact due to their own experiences with the Cypric race. Thyatis draws them in and forever alters the nation's culture. <<2)Because of Thyatis, elements of Millenian civilization and culture have been spread to Brun(the Millenians themselves spread it to Skothar, in what is now Mineae).>> The Milenians were the transit Traldarans who fled Brun to go to Davania and eventually HW. By Milenian culture I assume you mean the Milenian/Greek culture and its influence on Thyatis/Rome. And I beg to differ that the culture of Thyatis is most different than that of Golden Age Milenia. <<3)Thyatians have spread throughout southeastern Brun, and have left a sense of unity to much of the Known World(in the same way that the Romans gave a sense of unity to Europe; sure Europeans fight each other all the time, but the countries of Europe all have a great deal in common, such as Christianity).>> And how did this Thyatian influence spread? Conquest and fleeing Thyatians seeking a better life. The unity is there but not as intense as christianity. I also suspect the stalemate with Alphatia had much to do with this. There is also the fact that Thyatis was the big boy on Brun. Nations had little choice. The common traits nations share with Thyatis are not suitable grounds for unending alliances. WotI saw several examples of these Thyatian influenced nations holding back. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 05:18:20 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance (was PC1 and Alfheim) In a message dated 98-04-15 15:56:09 EDT, you write: << << With the refugees accumulating in NACE holdings, they do have a need. Sooner or later, the influx will take its toll on the NACE kingdoms. Sorry, but can't agree on that! I don't say that it can't come true but it isn't necessary. These soldiers might be so tired of war that they prefer to settle down and carve out a new civil existence. And I have said it before, I say it again and probably I will say it again sooner or later: Bellissaria is almost as big as Alphatia but has fewer inhabiitants than Thyatis City. There's really many room for this veterans. >> The mass of Alphatians still topside do consist of a large number of troops. It is concevable that the entire Alphatian Force is present. This force being the one that ran over Thyatis and was poised and reinforced to assault Glantri. I do not know their state of mind. No one does. I am just saying that a chance to avenge Alphatia is feasible. As well as a potent strike force to carve new niches for settlement. I do recall aspects of these troops (naval fleets) allying with Thyatis and subsequently changing sides to Thothia. I remember other troop units joining the Thothians and engaging the Thyatians. There was also mention of Alphatian military doing something with the Atruagin Elevator. The will to fight is still there. Bellissaria is big and has a low population density. However, Bellissaria is also a big agricultural base for the empire. As such, living room is compromised by the farmlands. I see some added build up on the sub continent. This is good cause it will draw focus on the continent. But over populating the limited settled areas would be bad. Those crops will even now be more needed with Alphatia gone. Someone has to place a cornerstone for foodstuffs. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 05:30:44 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar In a message dated 98-04-17 12:01:19 EDT, you write: << >IMO Thyatis was the pride of the Mystara staff. Its locale dictated that focus >of attention. Heck, the first adventure (Basic Red Box) was based in a Thyatian territory. Which adventure was that? >> The solo adventure in which you the player was taught how to play. The adventure occurred outside Threshold, Karameikos. Bargle made his debute as the nemesis magist. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #227 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, April 20 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 228 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Boltmen Re: [MYSTARA] -A nation at war . . . Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general debate [MYSTARA] - Vanya in Alphatia Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia, Thyatis, and the Night Spider Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Clerics at war. [MYSTARA] - Bellissaria and Alphatian soldiers Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatians ARE the Nice Guys Re: [MYSTARA] - Ring of Spell Turning??? Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general debate Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Clerics at war. [MYSTARA] - ...Ahem... Re: [MYSTARA] - ...Ahem... Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Gaz (was Re: Glantri vs Ethengar) Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Clerics at war. Re: [MYSTARA] - Sale - Reruns Various Mystaran Stuff [MYSTARA] - Ohhhh, The Agony! The Humanity! The Stupidity! Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] ???????? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 05:51:15 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Boltmen Digging out Champions of Mystara, here is the info on Alphatian Boltmen Ordinary Boltmen (M1 or E1) Able Bodied Boltmen (M2 or E2) Lead Boltmen (M3 or E3) Chief Boltmen (M3+ or E3+) Boltmen are naval combatants, a Marine varient. Boltmen are well versed in the tactics and limitations of their skills and magical abilities. Boltmen tote wands. These usually being wands of lightening bolts (usually six charges). Wands are recharged by naval magists. Cheif Boltmen are Cheif Petty Officer. Aside from higher XP levels andspell inventory, they brandish wands that do more damage and possess more charges. Other boltmen types- Light Marines carry wands of magic missiles (20 charges). Dispel Wardens carry wands with six charges of Dispel Magic. Protection Wardens carry wands bearing six charges of Protection from Normal Missiles. Each shares the stats of a regular boltman. Weapons and tactical use vary. I hope this helps. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 07:04:45 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] -A nation at war . . . In a message dated 98-04-18 03:09:30 EDT, you write: << In a message dated 4/17/98 9:58:15 AM, you wrote: <> >Two of the main Houses, pre-Wrath, were . . . .drumroll. . . Alphatian. The Aendyrs were distantly related to the Alph. Imperial family. The "Forty Years >war" was Imperial Alphatian army occupation of another Alphatian country. So, >I presume they've inheritied alot. Once again, those Alphatian Houses do not neccessitate knowledge of current Alphatian tactics. A great deal of change militarily could have occurred since those Houses left the Alphatian Fold for Glantrian pastures. >"Aalban mechinized machines are pretty much known for their "going crazy" and >impractibility. They are toys, oddities, and focus of attention for Jaggar's son. Golems could work. " >I beg to differ. One thing that made me want to try running my friends through >the Glantri campaign of many years ago was the fun ,wild setting in general aand in trying to set the tone, I often refered to a section in the Gaz called >"Magic in Glantri" (p51-52) "Starting with middle class families and up to the >noble households, licensed spellcasters are commonly hired to produce magical >effects, both for comfort and social status. . . Do you need water? A small permanant gate to the plane of water opens into the kitchen. It is linked to various piese and faucets-this latest in magical technology can be installed in your own home for a modest 36 crowns!" = to about 1800gp, not cheap but less than a sailboat The text goes on to give examples of a fire elemantal water heater (10 crowns=2 suits of plate), , black pudding garbage disposals, >floating disk designer furniture, reverse gravity elevator shafts, etc. So I imagine these kind of applications would go into the field with the troops . . >. Water readily available, very mobile siege weapons that might reload themselves etc. two way crystal balls for field comanders to coordinate, blah >blah. . . The fact that some of these might have the tendancy to turn on their owners is part of the fun for me. . . Well, I do not have the Glantri GAZ. I have to depend on G:KoM and the PWAs for Glantri info. I am aware of the magical gizmos the Glantrians have to make life easier. Where I draw the line is in machines. IMC Gnomes and sometimes Dwarves are the machine makers. Humans try. Trial usually results in error. Even the pros, gnomes, have their projects go crazy. IIRC Top Ballista has some info on gnomish gadgetry. Not sure about chances of success but a human's would have to be greatly less than the fantasy engineering experts. Personally I like the idea of Aalbanian machines going nuts. That Jaggar's son is involved in their creation is interesting as it reflects the sometimes kooky element of a young noble's toys and pet projects. That he is who he is makes retribution unlikely. Since IMO machines are dwarven and gnomish specialties, it is doubtful the Glantrians would have have self loading cats or ballista. Plus more magical based weapons with the same affect could be created with much more ease. I do like the idea of golems being used. Imagine golem rowers steaming river galleys along the Streel into Ethengar. Golems to manhandle catapult stones onto the cats. >"The Mover's Guild and other cool little businesses are just that, businesses. >These civilians would not be attuned to military actions. Moving a two headed >demigorgon across town is different from taking said demigorgon into Ethie lands." In the event of a major war effort, think of how "pursuasive" the council could be to these businessmen. Many industries thrive on military contracts and always have. Many technological improvements in our own world in the early part of this century (and still to today) were first designed with military applications, and later adapted into civilian life (plastic, radar, off road vehicles, Global positioning satalites, telegraphs, advanced aerodynamics. . .MnM's!!) The first computers were developed to help artilary officers compute the math of firing angles. Now Glantri isn't this advanced socially as a society, but history has examples. Leonardo DeVinci (sp?) was a court inventor of weapons for the authorities, Daedalus made traps for the Thracean kings. But I can imagine the "lttle bussineses" profiting from transporting supplies, troops, etc while monsterhandlers could form special "basalisk brigades" etc.>> Yes business could profit from war. That is kind of obvious. Their role would be more logistical and supply oriented. RW attempts to use civilian services in actual war have had mixed results. In the US War Between the States the Pinkerton Detectives found service with the Union Army. In their role as intelligence gathering, they were pretty dismal. Their methods were ill suited to military service. Often their intelligence proved wrong. In particular were their efforts to establish troops strengths. Plus the inclusion of private business in war often sees curruption. Bad provisions, substandard equipment, poor coordination, foot draggig, and even blackmail come to mind. This trend can be seen in most recorded periods of conflict. >"Personally I would stay away from Wishes in such things. Gamewise it would be >bad as Wishes are too omnipotent." True, it would undoubtably incur . . .The Wrath of the Immortals! [sorry, couldn't help it} >> More likely the Wrath of the DM. In my experience, the utilization of a wish is seen by DMs as a personal challenge. The challenge being, just how the DM can twist the wording around and producing unwanted affects. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 07:37:47 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general debate In a message dated 98-04-18 08:58:37 EDT, you write: << > Alphatian Imperial Boltmen are expensive to maintain. The wands cost mmoney. >Those mages rise in XP level, so I assume turnover rate is high. Boltmen are a >neccessity as it is in their hands that those expensive (even by Alphatian >standards) skyships are protected. <> IMO the Constabulary has so many big guns out of pure neccessity. Being Glantri City it is the focal point of mages due to the GSoM. And given the academic aspect of the GSoM it is understandable for young mages to be present. Such young mages could lack the restraint of more experienced mages. And since Glantri City is also the capital, a suitable guard is needed to represent and defend the city and nobles. IIRC G:KoM says that most of the Constabulary are mundaners and low level mages. However, the Constabulary has powerful mages on retainer and can amass a sizable and formidable force to any trouble making mages or nonspellcasters. IMO the Constabulary is as it is as not to get caught arriving at a shootout with a knife. >[snipped private business in war] <> And as stated, corruption also is obvious. The Dunkirk evac is a good example of private interests getting involved in military matters, However, the private flottilla was not hired by the English government. The passenger ships and other vessels were impressed into service. Only the English government could give them the needed fuels to set sail. BTW the private vessel aspect of Dunkirk has grown near mythical since 1940. This is a shame since the actual numbers of the citizen vessels were vastly inflated for propaganda reasons. I do not blame Churchill for this, I would have hoped the US would have done such a move if in the same position. And on the flip side, multiple examples of corruption can be stated to show where private businesses have taken advantage of war situations for financial gains at the expense of the troops. >[snipped GAZ reference because I do not have it and the issue was responded to in another resonse. ] *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 13:45:25 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Vanya in Alphatia >So what do yall think? Clerics of Vanya in Alphatia. How about Vanya being revered under another name? Sounds good to me. Vanya (IMC, anyway) is well known for being one of the Immortals with Many Faces... She's worshipped in Bellayne as Belbion(as a rakasta, no less),and in the Milenian Empire as Matera(Immortal patron of fertility??? all to get her own way and dump on the Milenians, who she hates). But aside from this, many Immortals seem to have war as one of their interests. (My friends when playing Mystara for the first time, being used to the Gods of other world, remarked how many Immortals seemed to be patrons of magic or warfare...). Ixion, Tarastia, Thor, Petra, Diulanna, Frey + Freya, Halav, and even Orcus could all be considered to be Immortals of warfare... But I admit, Vanya probably seems to be the best choice. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 11:14:05 -0400 From: Amaldis@concentric.net Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia, Thyatis, and the Night Spider <> That was Old Alphatia, and Old Alphatia was far different than the Alphatia on Mystara. Also, if it wasn't viewed as a handicap at all, then why didn't Old Alphatians who could cast spells decide that they would be a fighter instead? <> Where exactly are you getting this "old Alphatian attitudes" from? The philosophy of Mylertendal is alive in Alphatia, but there expansionists too, and they tend to be the more ambitious Alphatians who rise to political power(of course then their are also lots of zzonga addicts who are not ambitious, and wizards in Blackheart performing their various torturous expirements who don't care about expansion). Were all of Eriadna's expansionist leanings merely a "fit of emotion?" Her talk with Haldemar about the conquest of the Hollow World was in 2001 AY(before the war with Thyatis started), and the conquest of the Nogai tribes in Alphatian Neatharum was entirely her own idea(she built the tunnel in Aegos without the Grand Council's knowledge). <> I was saying that because of Thyatis the Known World was able to form as we know it today, and didn't mention the cultures that Thyatis assimilated. As for changing cultures, the Jennites in Esterhold may have a few things to the contrary. <> I didn't say Thyatis was similar to Golden Age Milenia(in fact, I didn't say Thyatis was similar to Milenia in any way), so I find it odd that you "beg to differ." I said that Thyatis spread elements of Milenian(ok, yeah, I said Millenian) culture and civilization on Brun. However, I do think that Thyatis resembles Milenia a great deal, in regards to both having Senates, both having Emporers, both fled from their enemies to a different continent, both assimilated vast numbers of people into their society, etc...(BTW, I think Milenia resembles Rome a great deal more than Greece; when was Classical Greece ever organized into a cohesive unit?) <> Nor are the common traits Europeans share with Rome suitable grounds for unending alliance(I don't know of any common traits that are suitable for unending alliance; in fact I have never heard of unending alliances). - -Amaldis *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 11:50:57 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Clerics at war. << IIRC aside from WotI Vanya has no beef against the Alphatian people. She is also known for favoring the conquering warriors. Randel is a militeristic kingdom. So what do yall think? Clerics of Vanya in Alphatia. How about Vanya being revered under another name? >> I have no problem with Vanya in Alphatia. But the thing with her name has not a high probability. The immortals have other names on the Savage Coast, but not in the Known World area (with the exception Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 04:50:01 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #228 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com of Ethengar). Perhaps she is revered in Alphatia, but doesn't perceive the country as her main field of interest. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 11:50:59 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: [MYSTARA] - Bellissaria and Alphatian soldiers << Bellissaria is big and has a low population density. However, Bellissaria is also a big agricultural base for the empire. As such, living room is compromised by the farmlands. I see some added build up on the sub continent. This is good cause it will draw focus on the continent. But over populating the limited settled areas would be bad. Those crops will even now be more needed with Alphatia gone. Someone has to place a cornerstone for foodstuffs. Alex >> O.k., but the relation between inhabitants and area is such that many arable land is not used simply because there's no one who could do the work. Has anybody a proof for another situation? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 15:57:06 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar >Never mind! Enjoy your independency as long as you can. A personal advice: Improve your riding abilities! When the Khanate Karameikos will have been founded we might find a task for you. Unless the Principality of Ethengar has been founded before then :) ************ Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 15:30:56 -0300 From: Victor Caminha Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatians ARE the Nice Guys >Just because Alphatia and her Most Cool Empress are in the Hollow World doesnt mean to say we have heard the last from the Ancient, Mighty Empire of Alphatia... Couldnt agree more! Alphatia above all :) Victor caminha "Receive the bounty of your hero's deed Tainting thy life by the gift of the dead Eternally running from a priestly bead Unable to bear the Orb in your head You'll walk in the darkness so alluring Without Hope to cleanse your sin Away from the joy of the living Forever to serve your Twin" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 15:52:41 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ring of Spell Turning??? At 21.07 17/04/98 +0100, Robert Fry wrote: >Hmm. Ring of Spell Turning??? who makes those? mages, perhaps? Yes, so what? I mean, Moglai Khan is a powerful guy, so he shouldn't have problems getting such a ring: e.g. he can buy it, order his personal mage to make one, tell a bratak to steal one... IMC some powerful Second Shadow members (i.e. Shadow Elves spies) have a ring of spell turning, so I don't consider it a very rare item. >Besides, that only protects against a very few spells really. Not as gross as it is made out to be. Now, a certain ioun stone might do the trick... But even then there are many Glantrian spells (im thinking pierce any shield here) that could splatter just about anyone on the planet without too much problem, magic items or no magic items. Pierce any shield? What's that? >From RC: a ring of Spell Turning reflects 2d6 spells back to their caster per day so that the wearer is not affected by spell attack. Only spells are reflected, not spell-like powers from monsters or spell-like effects of magical items. It would be nice to see a Glantrian mage cast a disintegrate on someone who wears that ring... :-) >Concerning this Glantrian infighting thing - I agree(i mentioned this a little while back). But the Khan is going to have to mobilise this support. I imagine that when the Khan rolls over the first principality there will be a vote in the Council of Princes. A few princes abstaining or wanting to sue for peace would hurt the Glantrian war effort immediately. I imagined something different: when the Khan rolls over the first principality a few princes may secretly help the Ethengarians in order to destroy enemy principalities. Then, when the Khan is close to conquer Glantri City and both armies are tired from months of war, this evil Prince may drive teh Ethengarians out of Glantri and take control of the whole country. It seems like a good plot for Brannart... >But, if the >Khan is dumb and doesnt bother with a little preplanning I reckon Jaggar and Urmahid will rally the princes. No prince is going to actively support the Khan - but a few might be inclined to bug out of the fight if the Khan does some sly devious diplomacy... Don't know... IMO Prince Kol would likely join the Khan if this means destroyng the two elvish principalities (and vice-versa). Other possible plots: Erewan vs. Belcadiz (and vice versa), Brannart vs. Morphail, Synn vs. Jaggar, nearly everybody vs. Ambreville... Just my opinion. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com DM in City Of The Stars - Mystaran Almanac Assistant Leader of Privateers - Student of Aerospace Enginnering Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 20:22:00 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general debate At 16.21 18/04/98 EDT, JamugaKhan wrote: <<< > Poor Wulf von Klagenfurt! >thats von klagendorf. >jobo >> >Your're right! How could this happen? Well, maybe Wulf comes from Laterre too... :-) PS: Klagenfurt is in Austria for those not so skilled in European geography. BTW: Jamuga, "dorf" means village in German, what about "klagen" and "furt", do those words have a meaning? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 19:49:55 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Clerics at war. I would vote for "under another name". But Vanya would be especially appropriate given her role in M1. At 02:26 AM 4/19/98 EDT, you wrote: >Vanya is the Immortal of conquest. The people of Randel are a warrior code and >act as the persona; sword and sheild of the Imperial Court. >In my Randel deal, I have used a goodly number of clerics. Most serve Razud or >Alphatia. But I wanted a more war centered Immortal patron. Vanya fits the bill. I see little reason why she could not have a following in Alphatia, a conquest orinted people. The only real reason that comes to mind is that Vanya >sided agains Alphatia, or more correctly sided with Thyatis. But even this is not a real problem as Asterius was also sided with Rad and is followed in Alphatia. >IIRC aside from WotI Vanya has no beef against the Alphatian people. She is also known for favoring the conquering warriors. Randel is a militeristic kingdom. >So what do yall think? Clerics of Vanya in Alphatia. How about Vanya being revered under another name? >Alex >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 20:27:07 EDT From: The Athar Subject: [MYSTARA] - ...Ahem... Er, just seeing if this works. =) If anyone gets this ('side me), couldja say so? Thanks. - - Technocrat *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 20:46:09 -0500 From: Scott and Juliette Karjala Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - ...Ahem... Techno, I just subscribed about 2 hrs. ago and I got this message. Serra Angel *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 22:09:07 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Gaz (was Re: Glantri vs Ethengar) Jeff Daly wrote: >It is going well. Thanks for asking. Bettelyn, the religious center of the empire, should be done soon...that is if those darned Randellans will stop sabotaging us! Frisland is also in the works, done by Geoff Gander. That's right! I'm about 85% done, and I hope to have something in final form for release to the list this week. In any case, it'll be up on the various sites. If things go well, I might to Eadrin or Shiye Lawr for an encore :-) Geoff >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 22:45:50 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Clerics at war. In a message dated 98-04-19 02:44:14 EDT, Alex295@aol.com writes: >So what do yall think? Clerics of Vanya in Alphatia. How about Vanya being rrevered under another name? How about Valerias as a patron? One of her titles is "Girder-On of Weapons", after all. And she did side with Alphatia in the War. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 23:29:24 -0600 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sale - Reruns Various Mystaran Stuff Lyndon, Leroy here. Just wanted to let you know I haven't sent that check off yet, depsite the fact I said I would last Monday. Very hectic week. I have it all ready to go out tomorrow, though. Just thought I would send this off in case you were expecting it. Thanks again. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com ICQ #4253672 "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 23:33:32 -0600 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Ohhhh, The Agony! The Humanity! The Stupidity! Ummmm, Whoops. Sorry for sending that private e-mail for Lyndon to the entire list. I completely forgot to check the send-to address when I replied. Of course I realized this 3 seconds after hitting the send button. Whatta moroon... Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com ICQ #4253672 "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 09:14:04 +0000 (GMT) From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar At 05:33 PM 4/17/98 EDT, Glenn wrote: >><< Naturally, that's why I prefer Glantri with it's werewolves, vvvampires, burning of clerics etc. Yup, if you want evil then it's sitting just west of Ethengar. But then the Ethengarians could be described as evil, butchering whole tribes who dare to disobey the Khan. >> >>Hm, hm, yes, o.k.! We all have some little faults. >Speak for yourself...Karameikos has taken great steps to eradicate the evil in our midst; the Black Eagle Baron is gone, as is his henchmage, Bargle. Ah, but only after the Five Shires invaded Karameikan soil and the Kingdom decided a fight over terretorial borders against the near invincible Hin would be too damaging... >Along with them a lot of humanoid tribes in the swamp were destroyed (at no small cost) in battle. With the School of Magecraft, the Order of the Griffon, and the wisdom of our noble king, Karameikos is taking great strides to becoming a major power in the Known World. Humaniod genocide, slaughtering the indinginous population of goblins..and new school of magecraft instituted by an evil alphatian wizard who lusts after power after losing his throne (Gah, difficult to write bad things about Terari, he's so cool :) ), and where did Teldon end up after all this? Assasinated by foreign elements? Perhaps all is not so rosey in the Kingdom of Karameikos.... >So don't mess with us. :-) Ahem, sorry had to write the Black Eagle Baron's propoganda above :) I must admit, there's just something about Karameikos that makes it a wonderful place to adventure...propably the untamed lands aspect of it, but I think a healthy dose of nostalgia creeps into it :) gordon http://seija.ucd.ie/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 18:48:40 +1000 From: Horsten Subject: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] ???????? Greetings, I have a question for all those experienced mystara DM's out there! I have for the first time run a group of adventurers up to a semi-high level. The party fighter defeated a Roaring Fiend in combat and I allowed him to claim the fiend's weapon's (in prelude to doing something nasty to the fighter). Anyways I was just looking for any ideas of what to do to this fellow ( a rather proud/ arrogant fighter). So anyone got any interesting ideas for what I could do to this fellow? Bye, Anakin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #228 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, April 20 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 229 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] ???????? Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia, Thyatis, and the Night Spider Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] ???????? Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Clerics at war. Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Clerics at war. [none] Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Clerics at war. [MYSTARA] - Best module Re: [MYSTARA] - Best module Re: [MYSTARA] - Best module Re: [MYSTARA] - Best module RE: [MYSTARA] - Best module Re: [MYSTARA] - Best module Re: [MYSTARA] - Best module Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Gaz (was Re: Glantri vs Ethengar) RE: [MYSTARA] - Best module [MYSTARA] - Re: [Mystara] ???????? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 13:26:49 GMT From: "Me" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mystara I have finally been forced to add to the list afgter lurking about reading everybody elses opinions for a number of months. Firstly I have to say I am a Thyatis supporter, in my campaign Alphatia is the big baddy that threatens the freedom of the smaller nations. Plus Alphatia's ally run by the traitor Archduke Stefan is a far darker place than in the canon. Giants rule the north, elves and goblins control the forests and Traladarans are not to friendly to strangers. Plus does anybody run a Savage Coast campaign. I recently re-read all the material and I have written a campaign in which Hule invades the Savage Baronies. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 08:54:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar At 09:14 AM 4/20/98 +0000, you wrote: >Ah, but only after the Five Shires invaded Karameikan soil and the Kingdom decided a fight over terretorial borders against the near invincible Hin would be too damaging... 'Invincible' hin? No one is invincible; ask Alphatia, if you can find them. We allowed the hin into the Black Eagle Barony, and they did what they had to do there and no more. They did not 'invade' Karameikos, they were all but invited by his Majesty. >Humaniod genocide, slaughtering the indinginous population of goblins..and new school of magecraft instituted by an evil alphatian wizard who lusts after power after losing his throne (Gah, difficult to write bad things about Terari, he's so cool :) ), and where did Teldon end up after all this? Assasinated by foreign elements? Perhaps all is not so rosey in the Kingdom of Karameikos.... The goblins had tormented and oppressed the native population from the day Ludwig moved there. Their destruction was in the name of justiec. Master Terari is no more evil than Master Teldon was. Master Teldon was, however, nearly one hundred and twenty when he died of natural causes in his sleep. >Ahem, sorry had to write the Black Eagle Baron's propoganda above :) A servant of the Black Eagle...perhaps you can give us information as to his whereabouts? >I must admit, there's just something about Karameikos that makes it a wonderful place to adventure...propably the untamed lands aspect of it, but I think a healthy dose of nostalgia creeps into it :) That's why I love it so much! Sure it's as close to a 'generic' fantasy setting as Mystara has, but it's got character and a life all it's own. No, it's not as 'cool' as Glantri, but it's still an awesome place. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 08:58:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] ???????? At 06:48 PM 4/20/98 +1000, you wrote: >Anyways I was just looking for any ideas of what to do to this fellow ( a rather proud/ arrogant fighter). >So anyone got any interesting ideas for what I could do to this fellow? Well...I don't know how a human fighter would feel after wielding a Roaring Demon's weapons, but I'm sure he woudn't feel too chipper; make the weapons cursed in some way; the typical -1 or -2 or whatever isn't really that impressive. How about the weapons cause a weakness, or even better, a wasting disease of some sort. They are, after all, weapons of Entropy. How will this fighter feel about watching his arms withering away a little more every time he draws the Demon sword? Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 09:46:13 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia, Thyatis, and the Night Spider In a message dated 98-04-19 11:32:16 EDT, you write: >IIRC the Alphatian GAZ >states that Old Alphatia mundaners were not veiwed as being handicapped. Instead they were encouraged to strive to acheive the most of what their nonspellcasting selves could.>> << That was Old Alphatia, and Old Alphatia was far different than the Alphatia on Mystara. Also, if it wasn't viewed as a handicap at all, then why didn't Old Alphatians who could cast spells decide that they would be a fighter instead?>> Yes that is very true. But not all of Alphatia nor all of Alphatia's populace share this disdain for their nonspellcasting brethren. Even some Alphatian kingdoms are not so down on mundaners. Even some of the "more interesting kingdoms" described in DotE states that. Why the mages did not choose to be fighters? I have no idea. I would guess the Alphatian tendency to "follow the path of least resistance". On Old Alphatia, magic was easy to the majority that possessed the skill. >IMO Eriadna's post Wrath stance was a fit of emotion. Given time, the old Alphatian attitudes should resurface and the Empire will look at HW in a different light. <> I think we have a communication problem. The change of attitudes I am referring to are post Wrath. You remember when the Beastman chick Jafilia committed suicide and Eriadna was touched and initiated the "kinder gentler Alphatia" based on trade and the like. That is the change I am referring to. And I do feel that this gentle handed attitude will fade and expansionist Alphatia will return. >True the Thyatian uprising stopped Alphatian expansionism. But which Empire is >known more for assimilating cultures? Alphatia pretty much leaves the existing >cultures intact due to their own experiences with the Cypric race. Thyatis >draws them in and forever alters the nation's culture.>> <> Yes Thyatis had a great deal of input in the developement of the KW. Being the big bully on the block can often have that effect. As for assimilated cultures, I thought there bore mentioning. For these assimilated cultures make up Thyatis. They are part of the national character of Thyatis. And that assimilation via empire building was what made Thyatis the big boy on Brun and subsequently being in a position to halt Alphatian expansion. Thyatian reasons for halting this Alphatian expansion was not an act of kindness. More to the point Thyatis had eyes for these territories themselves and Alphatia was a rival and threat. What exactly does the Easterhold Jennites have to do with Thyatis being better than Alphatia? The Jennites are a conquered people. By Alphatian standards, they are primitive and should be slaves. If Thyatis had conquered Easterhold, would they not of done the same? >And I beg to differ that the >culture of Thyatis is most different than that of Golden Age Milenia.>> <> Well the response was vague and that is how I took it and responded. I did find it odd that you credited Thyatis with keeping Milenia culture alive. True the two have simular traits, but so did RW Greece and Rome. Rome was influenced by Greece. It could prove interesting to work out a link between the two. Something like Homer's assertion that survivor's of Troy's royal family (cannot recall the names) fled and founded the town of Rome. Working the whole conquered becoming the conqueror into a KW context. BTW I agree that the classical Greeks were never as organized except under Alexanders rule or Roman occupation. Only in times of invasion were they ever able to work together in any form. I assume the SoP of HW has a great deal to do with Milenia being a singularly ruled nation. Perhaps preserving a singularly united city/state. In HW, the city/state grew and grew becoming the Milenian Empire. >The common traits nations share with Thyatis are not suitable grounds for >unending alliances. <> You are correct. There is no such thing as an unending alliance. PreWrath KW had the Brun nations in a semi alliance. During Wrath, this alliance faltered. With Alphatia sunk, this alliance is surely to further disintegrate. IMO Wrath showed the Brun nations that Thyatis was not as powerful as they had thought. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 09:49:51 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] ???????? In a message dated 98-04-20 05:10:29 EDT, you write: << Greetings, I have a question for all those experienced mystara DM's out there! I have for the first time run a group of adventurers up to a semi-high level. The party fighter defeated a Roaring Fiend in combat and I allowed him to claim the fiend's weapon's (in prelude to doing something nasty to the fighter). Anyways I was just looking for any ideas of what to do to this fellow ( a rather proud/ arrogant fighter). So anyone got any interesting ideas for what I could do to this fellow? Bye, Anakin >> Send the party to Alphatia. An arrogant fighter will be warmly welcomed. Send the party to Glantri. An arrogant fighter will be warmly welcomed. Let the party play Talons of Night. And if all fails, have the mists of Ravenloft grab the party and take them to the Domain of Dread. ::Evil laugh:: Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 09:55:34 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Clerics at war. In a message dated 98-04-19 03:14:28 EDT, you write: << Vanya forcing her followers to duke it out, to see who's tougher, culling the herd as it were.? I don't know. Maybe as her clerics take part in the conflict and her followers are put to the test, spell access will fluctuate as she feels each side is doing its part. Scary thought, but it would be a way for her to give her followers a pretty strong barometer of where they stand in her favor. This kind of same- diety-different army conflict might breed a nasty Inquisition-style effort to make sure that each army stayed in line. >> I was thinking more of two sides both having follwings of the same Immmortal. These two go to war. Both have viable reasons that concur with the Immortal's creed. Vanya is a good example if Thyatis and the heldannic Knights waged war. Both being conquest oriented the attacks are within the bounderies of Vanya's creed. IMO she would grant the spells to both sides clerics and let the stronger side prevail. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 10:10:20 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Clerics at war. Thanks to everyone for the input on Vanya and any potential following in Alphatia. Ixion and Valerias are options too. Also I had thought about Frey and Freya. More likely a Alphatian-ized version of the duo. The Alphatians adopting the sibling Immortals through Norwold. I'll play with it a little. Too many clerics of Alphatia, Koryis, and Razud. Though these three will remain the primary followings. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 11:14:34 -0400 From: Daly Subject: [none] Here is a thought...regarding Mystara's unique features... Bruce Heard commented recently that he thought the unique feature lay in the Immortals. He may be right. Can anyone else think of, for instance, another campaign setting in which the Immortals are specific to particular national boundaries? Alex asked recently what we thought of having Vanya cull a few followers on Alphatia. A few people found the idea shocking. Several, I among them, felt that she could be present but only under a different name. In the Forgotten Realms one can find a temple of Torm in many countries. To some extent this is true in Mystara, but where would you go if you specifically were seeking a temple dedicated to Koryis, to Alphatia, to Thanatos (God forbid!), to Bozdogan? Am I on to something here? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 11:53:08 EDT From: BoBo II Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Clerics at war. In a message dated 98-04-20 10:18:19 EDT, you write: << I was thinking more of two sides both having follwings of the same Immmortal. These two go to war. Both have viable reasons that concur with the Immortal's creed. Vanya is a good example if Thyatis and the heldannic Knights waged war. Both being conquest oriented the attacks are within the bounderies of Vanya's creed. IMO she would grant the spells to both sides clerics and let the stronger side prevail. Exactly, this is what I ment by "Culling." But at the same time , as both sides bid for her favors, she, and her priests may become especially observant to the devotion of her followers, and their strict adherance to her "orthodox" behavior. *Depends on how closely the DM wants to monitor character behavior. Or on a different theme, having devout player characters having to "shepherd" a wayward buch of soldiers. It all depends on the mood and themes of your current Mystara campaign. I only saw the potential of what might happen to the clerical leadership when they start to have military setbacks (as one side/both will) . Will they cave under political pressure and start hounding their troops to be loyal Vanyites? What about soldiers who aren't followers? Pressure to convert? Lots of depths of religious fanatacism to be plumbed. The Hulians don't have a monopoly on religious intolerance. . . Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 12:43:18 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #229 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com Just my two sense . . .maybe the Mystarans are just WAY more enlightened beings than we Earthers will ever be. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 11:00:00 -0500 From: "Vogt, Vincent N" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Best module I have recently received the latest issue of Dragon magazine and inside of it I found a ballot for the voting of the best module ever by TSR and the winner is going to be reprinted. I would like to suggest that we all pick up a ballot and vote for a Mystarian module. I believe that you can pick up the ballots at your local retailer if you do not receive Dragon magazine. I think that we should all decide which module to vote for then all vote for the same one. What a great thing it would be to see Mystara in print again. I would like to suggest the module B10 be the one to get the votes. This is for the purely selfish reason that I do not have it, nor can I find it anywhere, and I have been told by many that it is the best module ever. This would be a great way to introduce people to Mystara. Think about it. What better way than winning a contest that says that Mystara has the best module ever. I think that it would tweak the interest of many non-Mystarans and maybe convert them. Well just a thought. Any comments or suggestions for the module to vote for? Vinny *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 12:04:33 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Best module I agree on all of the above. Can anyone give a compelling reason to vote for a different module? At 11:00 AM 4/20/98 -0500, you wrote: >I have recently received the latest issue of Dragon magazine and inside of it I found a ballot for the voting of the best module ever by TSR and the winner is going to be reprinted. I would like to suggest that we all pick up a ballot and vote for a Mystarian module. I believe that you can pick up the ballots at your local retailer if you do not receive Dragon magazine. I think that we should all decide which module to vote for then all vote for the same one. What a great thing it would be to see Mystara in print again. I would like to suggest the module B10 be the one to get the votes. This is for the purely selfish reason that I do not have it, nor can I find it anywhere, and I have been told by many that it is the best module ever. This would be a great way to introduce people to Mystara. Think about it. What better way than winning a contest that says that Mystara has the best module ever. I think that it would tweak the interest of many non-Mystarans and maybe convert them. Well just a thought. Any comments or suggestions for the module to vote for? >Vinny >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 17:27:10 +0000 (GMT) From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Best module There's so many modules that I'd like to see back in print, but for a chance at any of them, it'd probably need a lot of people to vote the same way. B10 sounds cool, what's the name of it? (And what's it about? :) :) ) >I agree on all of the above. Can anyone give a compelling reason to vote for a different module? >At 11:00 AM 4/20/98 -0500, you wrote: >>I have recently received the latest issue of Dragon magazine and inside of it I found a ballot for the voting of the best module ever by TSR and the winner is going to be reprinted. I would like to suggest that we all pick up a ballot and vote for a Mystarian module. I believe that you can pick up the ballots at your local retailer if you do not receive Dragon magazine. I think that we should all decide which module to vote for then all vote for the same one. What a great thing it would be to see Mystara in print again. I would like to suggest the module B10 be the one to get the votes. This is for the purely selfish reason that I do not have it, nor can I find it anywhere, and I have been told by many that it is the best module ever. This would be a great way to introduce people to Mystara. Think about it. What better way than winning a contest that says that Mystara has the best module ever. I think that it would tweak the interest of many non-Mystarans and maybe convert them. Well just a thought. Any comments or suggestions for the module to vote for? >>Vinny gordon http://seija.ucd.ie/dnd/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 12:29:16 EST From: Neal Daskal Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Best module B10 is probably the best OD&D module to vote for. Although there are e of others (I'd rate DA2 Temple of the Frog, X10 Red Arrow Black Shield, he and X11 Saga of the Shadow Lord with Night's Dark Terror) B10 seems to ick have the best consensus from the MML. However I don't think it has a ck up chance to win a popularity contest against all the TSR modules ever e. I written. Although personally I might vote for any one of several for OD&D modules, I believe this contest will be won by some widely-known gain. AD&D module like Temple of Elemental Evil or ...tat ta da da... the one is is I think will win because of its great popularity and the popularity of the campaign setting it inspired, Ravenloft. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 17:33:56 +0100 From: Andy.P.Smith@marks-and-spencer.com Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Best module Hmm. How about all the modules in one big hardback book, or box set. >-----Original Message----- >From: Gordon McCormick [SMTP:gordon.mccormick@ucd.ie] Sent: Monday, April 20, 1998 6:27 PM >To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Best module >There's so many modules that I'd like to see back in print, but for a chance at any of them, it'd probably need a lot of people to vote the same way. B10 sounds cool, what's the name of it? (And what's it about? :) :) ) >>I agree on all of the above. Can anyone give a compelling reason to vvote >>for a different module? >>At 11:00 AM 4/20/98 -0500, you wrote: >>>I have recently received the latest issue of Dragon magazine and iinside of >>>it I found a ballot for the voting of the best module ever by TSR aand the >>>winner is going to be reprinted. I would like to suggest that we aall pick >>>up a ballot and vote for a Mystarian module. I believe that you can ppick up >>>the ballots at your local retailer if you do not receive Dragon mmagazine. I >>>think that we should all decide which module to vote for then all vvote for >>>the same one. What a great thing it would be to see Mystara in pprint again. >>>I would like to suggest the module B10 be the one to get the votes. TThis is >>>for the purely selfish reason that I do not have it, nor can I find iit >>>anywhere, and I have been told by many that it is the best module eever. >>>This would be a great way to introduce people to Mystara. Think aabout it. >>>What better way than winning a contest that says that Mystara has tthe best >>>module ever. I think that it would tweak the interest of many nnon-Mystarans >>>and maybe convert them. Well just a thought. Any comments or ssuggestions >>>for the module to vote for? >>>Vinny >gordon >http://seija.ucd.ie/dnd/ >********************************************************************** ***** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 12:35:06 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Best module Night's Dark Terror (B10) was a 64 page super module (I do believe it was the first of its kind) that detailed Karameikos. It was the first appearance of the Hutaakan, the Traldar, the Dymrak Goblins and the Vyalian Elves. It had an excellent plot and it included geographical detail on the mysterious "Lost Valley" located in the Cruth mountains. At 05:27 PM 4/20/98 +0000, you wrote: >There's so many modules that I'd like to see back in print, but for a chance at any of them, it'd probably need a lot of people to vote the same way. B10 sounds cool, what's the name of it? (And what's it about? :) :) ) >>I agree on all of the above. Can anyone give a compelling reason to vote for a different module? >>At 11:00 AM 4/20/98 -0500, you wrote: >>>I have recently received the latest issue of Dragon magazine and inside of it I found a ballot for the voting of the best module ever by TSR and the winner is going to be reprinted. I would like to suggest that we all pick up a ballot and vote for a Mystarian module. I believe that you can pick up >>>the ballots at your local retailer if you do not receive Dragon magazine. I >>>think that we should all decide which module to vote for then all vote for the same one. What a great thing it would be to see Mystara in print again. >>>I would like to suggest the module B10 be the one to get the votes. This is >>>for the purely selfish reason that I do not have it, nor can I find it anywhere, and I have been told by many that it is the best module ever. This would be a great way to introduce people to Mystara. Think about it. What better way than winning a contest that says that Mystara has the best module ever. I think that it would tweak the interest of many non-Mystarans >>>and maybe convert them. Well just a thought. Any comments or suggestions for the module to vote for? >>>Vinny >gordon >http://seija.ucd.ie/dnd/ >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 12:37:04 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Best module You are correct that we have a slim chance. However, there are many AD&D modules. Our best chance lies in the possibility of AD&D votes being split and ours being united. At 12:29 PM 4/20/98 EST, you wrote: >B10 is probably the best OD&D module to vote for. Although there are e of others (I'd rate DA2 Temple of the Frog, X10 Red Arrow Black Shield, he and X11 Saga of the Shadow Lord with Night's Dark Terror) B10 seems to ick have the best consensus from the MML. However I don't think it has a ck up chance to win a popularity contest against all the TSR modules ever e. I >written. Although personally I might vote for any one of several for >OD&D modules, I believe this contest will be won by some widely-known gain. AD&D module like Temple of Elemental Evil or ...tat ta da da... the one is is I think will win because of its great popularity and the popularity of the campaign setting it inspired, Ravenloft. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 12:39:24 EDT From: Duncan TKD Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Gaz (was Re: Glantri vs Ethengar) Speaking of that Ongoing Story. What ever happened to it? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 12:38:26 -0400 From: Daly Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Best module I am sure they are voting for the modules at a singular level. Saying "I vote for them all", while my inclination as well, won't get us very far. At 05:33 PM 4/20/98 +0100, you wrote: >Hmm. How about all the modules in one big hardback book, or box set. >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Gordon McCormick [SMTP:gordon.mccormick@ucd.ie] >>Sent: Monday, April 20, 1998 6:27 PM >>To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM >>Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Best module >>There's so many modules that I'd like to see back in print, but for a chance at any of them, it'd probably need a lot of people to vote the same way. B10 sounds cool, what's the name of it? (And what's it about? :) :) ) >>>I agree on all of the above. Can anyone give a compelling reason to vvvote >>>for a different module? >>>At 11:00 AM 4/20/98 -0500, you wrote: IIIII have recently received the latest issue of Dragon magazine and iiinside of >>>>it I found a ballot for the voting of the best module ever by TSR aaand the >>>>winner is going to be reprinted. I would like to suggest that we aaall pick >>>>up a ballot and vote for a Mystarian module. I believe that you can pppick up >>>>the ballots at your local retailer if you do not receive Dragon mmmagazine. I >>>>think that we should all decide which module to vote for then all vvvote for >>>>the same one. What a great thing it would be to see Mystara in ppprint again. >>>>I would like to suggest the module B10 be the one to get the votes. TTThis is >>>>for the purely selfish reason that I do not have it, nor can I find iiit >>>>anywhere, and I have been told by many that it is the best module eeever. >>>>This would be a great way to introduce people to Mystara. Think aaabout it. >>>>What better way than winning a contest that says that Mystara has ttthe best >>>>module ever. I think that it would tweak the interest of many nnnon-Mystarans >>>>and maybe convert them. Well just a thought. Any comments or sssuggestions >>>>for the module to vote for? >>>>Vinny >>gordon >>http://seija.ucd.ie/dnd/ >>********************************************************************** ***** >>To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >>'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. **************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: 20 Apr 1998 11:41:53 -0500 From: Alan Shutko Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: [Mystara] ???????? >>>>>"G" == Glen Sprigg writes: G> a weakness, or even better, a wasting disease of some sort. They G> are, after all, weapons of Entropy. How will this fighter feel G> about watching his arms withering away a little more every time he G> draws the Demon sword? Or maybe the crse slowly turns him into a demon.... - -- Alan Shutko - By consent of the corrupted Real Users hate Real Programmers. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #229 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, April 20 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 230 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: RE: [MYSTARA] - Best module Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] ???????? Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Best module Re: [MYSTARA] - Best module Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Best module Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] ???????? Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Best module [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs Glantri ("Will this never end!" - C3P0) [MYSTARA] - lol [MYSTARA] - Immortals - and Vanya [MYSTARA] - The Savage Coast Re: [MYSTARA] - Darokin Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Best module Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance (was PC1 and Alfheim) Re: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general debate Re: [MYSTARA] - Best module Re: [MYSTARA] - Best module Re: Re[4]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 17:45:24 +0100 From: Andy.P.Smith@marks-and-spencer.com Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Best module Daly, I know. Just wishful thinking I guess. Imagine it though, all the back catalogue at your fingertips. . . . . I missed most of the modules the first time around. >-----Original Message----- >From: Daly [SMTP:jdaly@friend.ly.net] >Sent: Monday, April 20, 1998 5:38 PM >To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM >Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Best module >I am sure they are voting for the modules at a singular level. Saying "I >vote for them all", while my inclination as well, won't get us very far. >At 05:33 PM 4/20/98 +0100, you wrote: >>Hmm. How about all the modules in one big hardback book, or box set. >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Gordon McCormick [SMTP:gordon.mccormick@ucd.ie] >>>Sent: Monday, April 20, 1998 6:27 PM >>>To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM >>>Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Best module >>>There's so many modules that I'd like to see back in print, but for aa >>>chance at any of them, it'd probably need a lot of people to vote tthe >>>same way. B10 sounds cool, what's the name of it? (And what's it about? :) :) ) >>>>I agree on all of the above. Can anyone give a compelling reason tto >>>vote >>>>for a different module? >>>>At 11:00 AM 4/20/98 -0500, you wrote: IIIIII have recently received the latest issue of Dragon magazine and iiiinside of >>>>>it I found a ballot for the voting of the best module ever by TSR aaaand the >>>>>winner is going to be reprinted. I would like to suggest that we aaaall pick >>>>>up a ballot and vote for a Mystarian module. I believe that you ccan >>>pick up >>>>>the ballots at your local retailer if you do not receive Dragon mmmmagazine. I >>>>>think that we should all decide which module to vote for then all vvvvote for >>>>>the same one. What a great thing it would be to see Mystara in pppprint again. >>>>>I would like to suggest the module B10 be the one to get the vvotes. >>>This is >>>>>for the purely selfish reason that I do not have it, nor can I ffind >>>it >>>>>anywhere, and I have been told by many that it is the best module eeeever. >>>>>This would be a great way to introduce people to Mystara. Think aaaabout it. >>>>>What better way than winning a contest that says that Mystara has tttthe best >>>>>module ever. I think that it would tweak the interest of many nnnnon-Mystarans >>>>>and maybe convert them. Well just a thought. Any comments or ssssuggestions >>>>>for the module to vote for? >>>>>Vinny >>>gordon >>>http://seija.ucd.ie/dnd/ >********************************************************************** ******** >>>To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with tthe >>>line >>>'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *********************************************************************** ******* >>To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with tthe line >>'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. >********************************************************************** ***** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 17:45:13 +0100 From: "alistairhall" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] ???????? >Date: 20 April 1998 09:48 >Greetings, >I have a question for all those experienced mystara DM's out there! >I have for the first time run a group of adventurers up to a semi-high level. The party fighter defeated a Roaring Fiend in combat and I allowed him to claim the fiend's weapon's (in prelude to doing something nasty to the fighter). >Anyways I was just looking for any ideas of what to do to this fellow ( a rather proud/ arrogant fighter). >So anyone got any interesting ideas for what I could do to this fellow? >Bye, >Anakin heres one i have lined up but haven't actually used yet. the weapon is some kind of minor artifact. the character must quest to destroy it before it destroy's him. when he finds the method of destruction and attempts it, there is a large explosion.upon recovery the character finds himself in a strange land. none of the rest of the party is there.he discovers over time that he is back in the blackmoor era. he now must quest for a way to return to his own time.this involves the destruction of some major blackmoorian device.(rain of fire)when he returns to his own era, he finds himself at half an hour before he destroyed the weapon. now he must figure out a way to destroy it and stay out of the blast radius.if he is anything like my players he will get a henchman,or other npc to do it, and stand well back. in this case he is just at the edge of the blast and is knocked unconcious when he comes to he is again back half an hour before the destruction,and now must try again. if he gets the same misfortunate individual to try, the npc reveals he is actually an immortal of entropy,or a fiend. he ended up in blackmoor and came back the long way(questing for immortallity in the sphere of entropy)and has become the immortal patron of revenge. hows that. jobo *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 12:48:28 EST From: Neal Daskal Subject: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Best module In response to my own message ;), consider this - can you remember the name of the Adversary in Night's Dark Terror, Temple of the Frog, Red Arrow Black Shield, or Ravenloft? Which of these compelling NPCs are the readers of Dragon most likely to recall? I recalled all except B10 almost immediately. And the other three all explicitly "return" to harry PCs again. (Yes, I did remember the villain from B10 after a bit of thought, although he/she/it is less memorable than a certain Cleric of Pflarr who plays a prominent role in the adventure. And, yes B10 may be played so he/she/it survives, but that would detract from the adventure's climax and he/she/it never appeared again in published material.) >B10 is probably the best OD&D module to vote for. Although there are others (I'd rate DA2 Temple of the Frog, X10 Red Arrow Black Shield, and X11 Saga of the Shadow Lord with Night's Dark Terror) B10 seems to have the best consensus from the MML. However I don't think it has a chance to win a popularity contest against all the TSR modules ever written. Although personally I might vote for any one of several OD&D modules, I believe this contest will be won by some widely-known AD&D module like Temple of Elemental Evil or ...tat ta da da... the one I think will win because of its great popularity and the popularity of the campaign setting it inspired, Ravenloft. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 17:53:07 +0100 From: "alistairhall" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Best module i agree lets pool our votes and go for it.b10 for best module - ---------- >From: Vogt, Vincent N To: 'mystara-l@mpgn.com' Subject: [MYSTARA] - Best module >Date: 20 April 1998 17:00 >I have recently received the latest issue of Dragon magazine and inside of >it I found a ballot for the voting of the best module ever by TSR and the winner is going to be reprinted. I would like to suggest that we all pick >up a ballot and vote for a Mystarian module. I believe that you can pick up >the ballots at your local retailer if you do not receive Dragon magazine. I >think that we should all decide which module to vote for then all vote for >the same one. What a great thing it would be to see Mystara in print again. >I would like to suggest the module B10 be the one to get the votes. This is >for the purely selfish reason that I do not have it, nor can I find it anywhere, and I have been told by many that it is the best module ever. This would be a great way to introduce people to Mystara. Think about it. >What better way than winning a contest that says that Mystara has the best >module ever. I think that it would tweak the interest of many non-Mystarans >and maybe convert them. Well just a thought. Any comments or suggestions >for the module to vote for? >Vinny *************************************************************************** TTo unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 12:55:59 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Best module Hmm. I am somewhat partial to x4 and x5 (the original two Master modules) but I still hold that B10 would have the wider acceptance among the non-believers. It is fairly straightforward and it is set within the main adventure area of Mystara. At 12:48 PM 4/20/98 EST, you wrote: >In response to my own message ;), consider this - can you remember the name of the Adversary in Night's Dark Terror, Temple of the Frog, Red Arrow Black Shield, or Ravenloft? Which of these compelling NPCs are the readers of Dragon most likely to recall? I recalled all except B10 almost immediately. And the other three all explicitly "return" to harry PCs again. >(Yes, I did remember the villain from B10 after a bit of thought, although he/she/it is less memorable than a certain Cleric of Pflarr who plays a prominent role in the adventure. And, yes B10 may be played so he/she/it survives, but that would detract from the adventure's climax and he/she/it never appeared again in published material.) >>B10 is probably the best OD&D module to vote for. Although there are others (I'd rate DA2 Temple of the Frog, X10 Red Arrow Black Shield, and X11 Saga of the Shadow Lord with Night's Dark Terror) B10 seems to have the best consensus from the MML. However I don't think it has a chance to win a popularity contest against all the TSR modules ever written. Although personally I might vote for any one of several OD&D modules, I believe this contest will be won by some widely-known AD&D module like Temple of Elemental Evil or ...tat ta da da... the one I think will win because of its great popularity and the popularity of the campaign setting it inspired, Ravenloft. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. **************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 12:08:47 -0500 (CDT) From: Stephen Dolan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] ???????? >heres one i have lined up but haven't actually used yet. the weapon is some kind of minor artifact. the character must quest to destroy it before it destroy's him. when he finds the method of destruction and attempts it, there is a large explosion.upon recovery the character finds himself in a strange land. >none of the rest of the party is there.he discovers over time that he is back in the blackmoor era. he now must quest for a way to return to his own time.this involves the destruction of some major blackmoorian device.(rain of fire)when he returns to his own era, he finds himself at half an hour before he destroyed the weapon. >now he must figure out a way to destroy it and stay out of the blast radius.if he is anything like my players he will get a henchman,or other npc to do it, and stand well back. >in this case he is just at the edge of the blast and is knocked unconcious when he comes to he is again back half an hour before the destruction,and now must try again. if he gets the same misfortunate individual to try, the npc reveals he is actually an immortal of entropy,or a fiend. he ended up in blackmoor and came back the long way(questing for immortallity in the sphere of entropy)and has become the immortal patron of revenge. hows that. >jobo >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. Very, very nice...alot of my players are going away for the summer so i think i will have to hook someone up on something like this :) Steve *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 18:42:42 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Best module Ah yes, Temple of the Frog - brilliant adventure. Beats Expedition to Barrier Peaks into the ground. Thats the one that would get my vote. But Saga of the Shadow Lord.... decisions decisions... Ravenloft?????? Good adventure - but Saga is infinitely better. Landryn Teriak beats Strahd (as evinced by the fact that Landryn and his pet hellhound (cant remember his name) seem to turn up periodically in Dragon magazine as a bit of random artwork) - like the front covers of several Gazetteers... Pity that the Realms has polluted the world of gameplaying... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:08:29 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs Glantri ("Will this never end!" - C3P0) The Response... (I apologise for the heresy of using AD+D rather than D+D, which does weight things slightly in favour of Glantri...) >Yes, so what? I mean, Moglai Khan is a powerful guy, so he shouldn't have problems getting such a ring: e.g. he can buy it, order his personal mage to make one, tell a bratak to steal one... IMC some powerful Second Shadow members (i.e. Shadow Elves spies) have a ring of spell turning, so I don't consider it a very rare item. Concerning magic items - as a DM I dislike them. A couple is fine, masses are not. Gone are the days in my campaign where PCs tote 10+ items Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 17:22:38 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #230 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com of destruction. The reason? Well, Thincol the Brave (the mightiest Warrior Ever) totes... a +2 two handed sword. +2?????!!!!!????!!!!! If anyone has(had?) an excuse for wielding the sword +5, +10 vs everything its Thincol, Emperor of Thyatis. Even some of the Princes of Glantri are a bit... lacking. BTW - Ring of Spell Turning... can't find the old Companion set, but in AD+D it doesnt stop area of effect spells... Pierce Any Shield - its in G:KoM - and it enables the wizard to cast a subsequent spell that ignores all magical defences and immunities (so your Guardian Tanar'ri with 90% Magic Res and immune to fire can be blasted by the Meteor Swarm spell...) I doubt that this is about in D+D, but if it isnt, it could still have been researched by an enterprising wiz.... >From RC: a ring of Spell Turning reflects 2d6 spells back to their caster per day so that the wearer is not affected by spell attack. Only spells are reflected, not spell-like powers from monsters or spell-like effects of magical items. See "Pierce Any Shield" for this one... and in AD+D it doesnt give protection from area of effect spells. >It would be nice to see a Glantrian mage cast a disintegrate on someone who wears that ring... :-) Disintegrate??? I believe Moglai Khan probably has a saving throw of around 2 against that spell... Glantrians that dumb deserve to become Dust in the Wind, dude. >I imagined something different: when the Khan rolls over the first principality a few princes may secretly help the Ethengarians in order to destroy enemy principalities. >Then, when the Khan is close to conquer Glantri City and both armies are tired from months of war, this evil Prince may drive teh Ethengarians out of Glantri and take control of the whole country. It seems like a good plot for Brannart... Hmm. Brannart is an amazing cool bad guy... but... could he be bothered? Ok, he hates Morphail. He could wait until Boldavia gets razed (as it probably will be the first principality to go). And then he could do nothing, like he always does (Brannart doesnt care about the outside world. He doesnt ever seem to really go after Morphail at all. When (if?) Brannart dies, on his gravestone will be written "Here lies Brannart McGregor. He couldn't be bothered...") >IMO Prince Kol would likely join the Khan if this means destroyng the two elvish principalities (and vice-versa). Other possible plots: Erewan vs. Belcadiz (and vice versa), Brannart vs. Morphail, Synn vs. Jaggar, nearly everybody vs. Ambreville... Hmm. Maybe. (Synn vs Jaggar - oh yes. This WILL happen. And Synn would probably try to cozy up to the Khan and start Entropising Ethengar after Glantri has suffered). Kol - maybe (especially if Synn says so - yes ma'am no ma'am three bags full Ms Dragon). Erewan vs Belcadiz??? I find that hard to believe. Belcadiz would betray Glantri just to oust Erewan - they're being ousted quite happily without High Treason being required. Erewan might - but I think they're too nice to let a horde of rampant Ethengars burn Glantri City and kill loads of innocent (well, maybe not so innocent) people. She is good, after all. And as for Nouvelle Averoigne... given its geography I doubt that could be fed to the Ethengars - at least not until the rest of Glantri (except perhaps Sablestone... lol) had already been conquered. Synn vs Jaggar tho... Hmmm.... Especially as Jaggar is onto her. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:20:47 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: [MYSTARA] - lol >Send the party to Alphatia. An arrogant fighter will be warmly welcomed. >Send the party to Glantri. An arrogant fighter will be warmly welcomed. >Let the party play Talons of Night. >And if all fails, have the mists of Ravenloft grab the party and take them to >the Domain of Dread. >::Evil laugh:: >Alex Ha Ha Ha!!! I love it... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:17:37 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Immortals - and Vanya I think what makes Mystara different is that is very "country oriented". In other campaign worlds (even Red Steel, to a lesser extent) countries are very much in the background. City states seem to be the order of the day. Look at the Realms - is Waterdeep actually in a country? is Zhentil Keep? OK - there ARE countries. But take Zakhara - there is hardly a sense of national unity there like Mystaran countries have. And other worlds don't seem to have wars, foreign policy and the like dictating their timelines. Its Heroes and Villains instead. not that any of this is bad - just different. Immortals just bring out this nationalism thing even more, by sponsoring nations. Immortals dont have areas of control like Gods do (well, they have the Spheres, but they are very broad). Immortals have areas of interest - generally the nation they like the most. I didn't like that concept initially, but I now prefer it the the Godly way of doing things. Mystaran religion encourages nationalism. Concerning Vanya - maybe she's out to "get" the Alphatians, because she doesn't like them. Just like she's worshipped in Milenia under a different name, because she wants to "get" them... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 18:45:43 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Savage Coast >Plus does anybody run a Savage Coast campaign. I recently re-read all the material and I have written a campaign in which Hule invades the Savage Baronies. Yes!!! Me!!!! Sounds similar - I had Vilaverde on the receiving end of some Hulean violence. But be warned - Red Steel can afflict players... Most of my latest PCs in my friends games have been killed/maimed as the result of trying to do flash, swashbucklering acts in other campaigns... (the duel with Harkon Lukas in Ravenloft springs to mind... as does the incident involving the drow high priestess)... Ah well - it's a laugh, innit? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 11:30:22 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Darokin >According to Darokinian law a new Outer Council is elected every 8 years. >Does someone of you know if such an election was ever mentioned in the PWAs >(or some other canon product)? >What about the Great Reckoning, which is undertaken every five years? The next Outer Council Election happens on AC 1016 The Great Reckoning was to happen on AC 1015,1020 Bruce thought it was simpler to have start everything in 1000 AC, and go from there. George Valencia >-------------- >Fabrizio Paoli >brizio@lunet.it >Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 -------------- ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 14:36:46 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Best module At 06:42 PM 4/20/98 +0100, you wrote: >Ah yes, Temple of the Frog - brilliant adventure. Beats Expedition to Barrier Peaks into the ground. Thats the one that would get my vote. Temple of the Frog is an awesome adventure. But it is essentially unchanged from its original inception. Besides, you don't want to hand TSR a module that might be difficult to rerelease. Considering the bad blood that has existed in the past between Arneson and TSR...I just wouldn't want to risk it. Besides, if we are considering this as a way to re-INTRODUCE Mystara to the non-believers, we should really consider those modules which are the widest reaching. I still think B10 is the best choice. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 11:54:02 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance (was PC1 and Alfheim) ><< By that point the Known World has been devastated, and with the Master's >departure to the realms of the Immortals his generals are busy destroying >whatever is left as they fight one another. At this point a new leader could >arise among the Ethengars, and he would potentially be able to rise up against the successors to the Master and "liberate" the Known World. This scenario could easily parallel real world history in many ways.... >> >Hm, I'm not sure if I would like THAT idea... >Probably I must think it over. >Some other questions: How should this idea be used? Should it be described in forthcoming Mystara Almanacs? Do a majority of Mystara lovers accept such a dramatic change? And how many (Mystaran) years are necessary? This type of Chaos is something that Synn might have in mind, not Hosadus, besides i'm not in favor of this type of Chaos, in order to bring a type of Horde campaign to greatly favor the Ethengar. To answer your questions, no, not likely, maybe, if so four years long should be good, and it should happen two decades after WOTI. "In order to kill grandpa, we have to make it look Natural" -Stan South Park. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 12:42:03 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing >Which Spheres were connected to what elements? Good Question. I seem to >remember that Matter was connected to Earth and Energy was connected to Fire. >As for the other two I am unsure, but I think Thought was connected to Air, >and Time was connected to Watter. Entropy had no elemental attachment. >> >Could Entropy possibly been connected to the Negative Material Plane>? >-Inconu i would have to say yes, after all, entrophy represents Distruction and sometimes chaos(let's not go two more months on the Chaos Vs. Entrophy issue please!!!!) It fits in perfectly, since the 4 four spheres represent the at one point the element of the inner planes, having another inner plane the represent the sphere of entrophy seems perfect at this point in time. if you wish to know about what a creature closest to representing the Negative Plane, try the entry on the Apodalypse in the Night of the Shark Module of the Monsterous Arcana. 'playing football is like making love to a woman, once you score, it make all the trying worthwhile' - Chef, South Park ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 15:59:51 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: The great Ethie v Glantri armchair-general debate << PS: Klagenfurt is in Austria for those not so skilled in European geography. BTW: Jamuga, "dorf" means village in German, what about "klagen" and "furt", do those words have a meaning? >> Hm, and I thought "Klagenfurt" were a German city. Perhaps there are more than one. The root of some words are hidden sometimes, but "Klagen" could mean "complain" or "lament" and "Furt" is a ford, a pass over a river, like in "Frankfurt". Jamuga Khan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 15:54:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Best module At 12:04 PM 4/20/98 -0400, you wrote: >I agree on all of the above. Can anyone give a compelling reason to vote for a different module? B10 rules! The only other Mystaran adventures that come close are B2 (which everyone in the history of role-playing games has played at least once), X1 Isle of Dread, and X2 Castle Amber. All four of these are great adventures, but I would have to agree with B10 as the best. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 16:03:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Best module At 05:27 PM 4/20/98 +0000, you wrote: >There's so many modules that I'd like to see back in print, but for a chance at any of them, it'd probably need a lot of people to vote the same way. B10 sounds cool, what's the name of it? (And what's it about? :) :) ) B10, Night's Dark Terror, is an epic adventure for PCs of levels 2-4 set in the Grand Duchy of Karameikos, taking the PCs across a lot of the eastern part of the country. Without giving away the entire plot, the PCs start off in Kelven where they are hired to escort a caravan of horses to be sold. The simple job goes sour (don't they all?), and the PCs end up chasing goblins and werewolves and all sorts of nasties. They eventually end up discovering some of the oldest history of the Traladaran people. There are a lot of NPCs to interact with, and tons of detail. This really is a low-level epic quest with a great deal of high-fantasy. Beautifully written and with a ton of maps, it even comes with a set of counters to visualize some of the battles. This is definitely the best module TSR ever wrote, although the original Ravenloft module will get a ton of votes. We'll just have to do better. Everyone vote for B10! Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 14:21:36 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: Re[4]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World >regarding: >... >arrows in his quiver. Once used up, they are done. And I do not care how good >the Glantri battle mage kit is, once that mage is forced into close melee the >fighter based soldier is going to prevail. Especially an Ethie on horseback >matched against a Glantrian on horseback. A mage better take his target down >>>with that first magic missile lest that target ride him down. Even if the mage slays the target, he is pretty much spent spell wise. I guess you forgot about Glantri's use of magic as a commodity, in the form of spells, components, conjured monsters, and WANDS. yes, wands, what if the battle mages had wand of fireballs, then they'd be ready to roast many ethangars before the could get to melee range. how's that for an equalizer for the Glantri? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #230 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, April 21 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 231 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Best four modules of all time, my picks Re: [MYSTARA] - Best module [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance [MYSTARA] - Gun powder? [MYSTARA] - Another question about countries..=) Re: [MYSTARA] - Another question about countries..=) [MYSTARA] - Re: Best module and Mystaran uniqueness Re: [MYSTARA] - Gun powder? Re: [MYSTARA] - Best module Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Best module and Mystaran uniqueness [MYSTARA] - RE: Best module Re: [MYSTARA] - Another question about countries..=) Re: [MYSTARA] - Best module Re: [MYSTARA] - Another question about countries..=) Re: [MYSTARA] - Gun powder? [MYSTARA] - 'unsubscribe mystara-1' [MYSTARA] - MystaranWriters [MYSTARA] - Speculation re Immortals [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] ???????? Re: [MYSTARA] - Another question about countries..=) Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Best module and Mystaran uniqueness Re: [MYSTARA] - Gun powder? [MYSTARA] - Some Modules for Sale, Including all the DA Series ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 14:37:21 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Best four modules of all time, my picks Since D&D is turning twenty in 1999, (which will also be my age, when we get there) the call has been made to pick the four best modules or module series of all time, and here's my take on how the top will be, and which are my picks to be reprinted. The top four favorites among D&D and AD&D fans everywhere, seem to be Queen of the Spiders, because they get a chance to take on Lolth, Queen of the Spiders, and Matron of the Drow Race. The Next Favorite will be the Bloodstone Series, it the only series that challenged PCs of levels going up to 100, The Third Definite Favorite will be the Avatar Series, only because newbies will want to know what was great about the fall of the gods to Toril, and it's epic quest. The Fourth is very shaky, but a couple of longtime gamers will like to see the Slaver Series get reprinted, because they fell in love with series when it first came out. now my choices are Queen of the Spiders, Bloodstone Series, Desert Nomad Series, because of it's current in my WOTI campaign, and the idea of setting the adventure 200 years into the future of mainstream Mystara was very uncharacteristic in my opinion and it fits well with WOTI, and the Isle of Dread, It makes an excellent Campaign Expansion for those of you playing in the Known World, who wish to visit Jurassic Park. The more I think of it, it think that Micheal Creighton (if that's his correct name) may have once play D&D in the Campaign World of Mystara, and used the Isle of Dread as his inspiration for Jurassic Park, and the Lost World. So what's your Choice for the Best Four Classics of All Time? 'playing football is like making love to a woman, once you score it makes all the trying worthwhile.' -Chef, South Park. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 17:50:03 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Best module I just had a sudden nightmare. Could you imagine B2 winning and then, sense it is written to be in any setting, the folks at TSR releasing a Forgotten Realms version of that module?? AAAGGHHH! At 03:54 PM 4/20/98 -0400, you wrote: >At 12:04 PM 4/20/98 -0400, you wrote: >>I agree on all of the above. Can anyone give a compelling reason to vote for a different module? >B10 rules! The only other Mystaran adventures that come close are B2 (which everyone in the history of role-playing games has played at least once), X1 Isle of Dread, and X2 Castle Amber. All four of these are great adventures, but I would have to agree with B10 as the best. >Glen >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 14:54:25 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Great Entropic Alliance << Unfortunately I doubt this interesting scenario will be included in forthcoming Mystaran Net-Almanacs, at least not in the close future. Why this? Because some events described in 1015 Net-Almanac clearly prevent Ethengar from attacking anyone in the near future. I'm sorry :) -------------- Fabrizio Paoli >> >I'm sorry that the editors of the Mystaran Almanac all died when a strange special force command from the north broke into the rooms of the editorial staff and devastated all they could. :-) >Jamuga Khan That was the note discovered the scene of the Crime as the DDC dispatched the WDL, investigate and discover the reason for the unprovoked attack. Meanwhile, the Editors have been resurrected by priest of the Church, who were informed what to do, if they were to be assassinated, Joshaun Gallidox will testify before the council of the Western Defense League at it's Headquarters in Selenica, WDL will decide on what action to resolve. :^) Jerald Hallonica reporting. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 18:30:39 EDT From: The Athar Subject: [MYSTARA] - Gun powder? Hola: I'm relatively new to the Mystara (Known World) setting, and I am wondering if any of the more "advanced" cultures (Darokin, Thyatis, Alpatia, etc.) have invented gunpowder? I know that the Savage Coast has it, but does anyone in the Known World? - - Technocrat *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 18:38:14 EDT From: The Athar Subject: [MYSTARA] - Another question about countries..=) Hola: Can someone explain to me how all these completely different cultures with different technology levels exist so close to each other? How can a highly civilized Darokin exist next to a Dark Ages Broken Land, a barely-settled, Middle Ages Karameikos, and East of a Dark Ages Sind? - - Technocrat *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 00:00:38 +0100 From: "alistairhall" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Another question about countries..=) - ---------- >From: The Athar >To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM >Subject: [MYSTARA] - Another question about countries..=) Date: 20 April 1998 23:38 >Hola: >Can someone explain to me how all these completely different cultures with >different technology levels exist so close to each other? How can a highly >civilized Darokin exist next to a Dark Ages Broken Land, a barely-settled, >Middle Ages Karameikos, and East of a Dark Ages Sind? well when one considers that in parts of brasil you have some modern technology,and in the rainforests you have the indians living in what would be regarded as primitive conditions,and this in the same country.i don't see why neighbouring countries in mystara can't have different technology levels. for example you have (rw)third world countries bordering on second and first world countries. not everybody wants to share their tech.,and not everybody wants to share in it. jobo *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 09:14:32 EST From: "Shawn Stanley" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Best module and Mystaran uniqueness It seems that B10 is certainly a popular choice - and of course to have any D&D module reprinted a unified front is what we would have to show. But Karameikos ... ewwww yucky. Nevertheless united we stand yadda yadda. However for my money something like X11 Saga of the Shadowlord would be better because it is 1) a good module and 2) it details new parts of Mystara. But the real question, IMHO, is - what will present the uniqueness of Mystara best whilst also being a module that TSR would want to reprint. A recent comment by J Daly brought this discussion that was here previously back to me. >Here is a thought...regarding Mystara's unique features... >Bruce Heard commented recently that he thought the unique feature lay in the Immortals. For something that TSR is likely to print let's see what they've got on their homepage. Firstly there's all the Savage Coast stuff. All a lot of fun but none of the stuff that isn't on the site is old enough to bother reprinting. Next, there's all the Shadow Elf stuff. Has anyone else noticed how it seems that every snippet of Shadow Elf information has been put onto the web site - they've even written AD&D stats for our underground buddies. Sheesh as opposed to everything else we've been getting from TSR in the last couple of years this is almost a veritable Cornucopia - one perhaps that we haven't feasted on yet. Of course the problem with the 'Best module' dilemma is that a Shadow Elf module has yet to be printed yet - bugger! But what about this for an idea. [Fabrizio Shadow Elf dude extraordinarie, I hope you're reading this]. How about some people get together under your guidance and write a Shadow Elf adventure for inclusion in the good old Dungeon magazine? I don't know from where TSR found out that Shadow Elves are popular but from the web page and from mentions in, for example Planescape products, it seems that these guys have caught the imagination of some people out there. And what's better they're one of the unique Mystaran things. Create a short adventure with them and maybe one of the other _big_ Mystaran unique identities and if it's printed in Dungeon then we're well on our way to that thing that we all want to see - Mystara back on the TSR frontburner. Any rate back to the Best Module thingy there are two other things on the TSR homepage. Details on the Nosferatu. Again I dunno why they ressurected this guy but again he _is_ a good idea. Maybe a nosferatu protagonist for our shadow elf buddies in the soon to be released Dungeon adventure... And finally on the page are details of some Blackmoor devices - finally something that we can use as an argument for old modules to reprint. The idea of a reprinted DA1-4 (of course we suggest that it would only be right to reprint the whole lot of them) is a wonderful idea. Firstly it's a great idea because other people here have mentioned what good modules some of them are. Secondly it's a great idea because it goes back to the roots of D&D which is always a good idea. Thirdly it's a good idea because the idea of a techno-fantasy culture and huge nuclear explosions shifting the planetary axis is if not Mystaran specific (darn - bugger that Tale of the Comet) is at least not the most overused cliche if seen in role playing games. At least, to my knowledge it hasn't happened in FR, ptooey. And hey at least with the release of Tale of the Comet maybe we can convince TSR that there is a market for modules for such an idea - they obviously thought the idea was good or they wouldn't have released Tale of the Comet. Now someone mentioned that this may be a problem with Dave Arneson and TSR. That would be unfortunate if it was. However before we start this ball rolling too far at least we can email Dave and ask him his view on the whole thing - remember the other day my email saying that Dave is now contactable over the net? Oh well, maybe I'm being blinded by the heady idea that this all seems to be falling together rather well at the moment but this seems to be a plan right here. Get DA1-4 reprinted. Get a Shadow Elf adventure published in Dungeon. Get some RPGA Mystara stuff up and running. Wait to see if TSR get good comments about these things. Send some more stuff to Dungeon and to Dragon. Suggest a new Odyessy Mystara specific release. See if TSR are still getting good comments. If they are ... ... then our plan for global domination is complete ... No, no wait - that isn't it. Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering? I think so Brain but if these realms are so forgotten why does everyone seem to know so much about them? No , in a couple of years time we get the Mystara line re-established ... and then the world! stan http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 09:18:44 EST From: "Shawn Stanley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gun powder? >I'm relatively new to the Mystara (Known World) setting, and I am wondering if >any of the more "advanced" cultures (Darokin, Thyatis, Alpatia, etc.) have >invented gunpowder? I know that the Savage Coast has it, but does anyone in >the Known World? Not officially no. However your campaign could easily be firing along at a cracking pace (sorry bad pun there). However all I guess you really need is a mercantile people to come along start trade and ship the stuff around. Now who knows some burly sailors a little west of the Savage Coast who are mercantile in nature who'll be popping in on the Savage Coast sometime in AC 1016? Oh right, no one the AC 1015 Almanac ain't out yet. Bugger, I'll shut my mouth then. The trouble is that things *never* get better, they just stay the same, only more so. - Terry Pratchett, Eric stan http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:48:09 EDT From: Mystaros Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Best module In a message dated 98-04-20 12:52:36 EDT, Andy P. Smith wrote: << Hmm. How about all the modules in one big hardback book, or box set.>> I think it would be really great to see the old Mystara modules given a similar treatment as the old A, G, D&Q series had been given... all revised and tied together, but in a way that makes SENSE and has some continuity, unlike what happened in B1-9. WotC/TSR is shying away from boxed sets these days due to costs, but if they weren't, I would love to see X4, X5 and X10 revanped for AD%D and made into a campaign boxed set like they did with that Underdark Mega-Module, and like they are going to do with the Tomb of Horrors and others... As to the single best OD&D module to vote for... I would go with B10 as well, due the the fact that it would act as an excellent introduction to Mystara, and could more easily be adapted to other campaigns (which always helps a module sell). I'm very fond of B2 for sentimentality sake, but it would not be a viable intor to Mystara... Mystaros *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:59:39 EDT From: Mystaros Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Best module and Mystaran uniqueness In a message dated 98-04-20 19:30:34 EDT, Shawn Stanley wrote: << Now someone mentioned that this may be a problem with Dave Arneson and TSR. That would be unfortunate if it was. However before we start this ball rolling too far at least we can email Dave and ask him his view on the whole thing - remember the other day my email saying that Dave is now contactable over the net? >> Actually, the troubles between TSR and Dave Arneson were more or less resolved about the same time as Gen Con last year, when they (apparently) made a lump- sum payment (or resolved to send him x % on an honest, regular basis - they never really said). But Arneson is apparently satisfied, whatever the case. I Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 02:01:02 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #231 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com think the press release might still be available on the TSR web site... As for Blackmoor, I think it would be cool to release it as a whole new setting... only place it in an alternate timeline where the GRoF never occured, call it "Blackmoor 2001" or some such (IMC, the GRoF occured in 2000 AE "Age of Empire", 1000 years after the events in the DA series). It would be a mix of magic, super science and technomancy... sort of Shadowrun meets Star Trek... Mystaros *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:11:15 -0500 From: "Vogt, Vincent N" Subject: [MYSTARA] - RE: Best module If you decide not to vote for B10 I suggest that we at least vote for a module that takes place in Karamiekos or Galantri. This just for the pure fact of linking new players to Mystara. One they read the module (and see how good it is) they can walk into their local hobby shop and perhaps see the box set for these two countries. If one for a country like Darokin wins they may not be able to link it to Mystara as easily. Perhaps this post is pointless since I do not own any modules they may all take place in these two countries. If so just ignore this otherwise give this idea some consideration. Vinny *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 20:35:12 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Another question about countries..=) Magic At 06:38 PM 4/20/98 EDT, you wrote: >Hola: >Can someone explain to me how all these completely different cultures with different technology levels exist so close to each other? How can a highly civilized Darokin exist next to a Dark Ages Broken Land, a barely-settled, Middle Ages Karameikos, and East of a Dark Ages Sind? >- Technocrat >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 20:41:48 -0400 (EDT) From: StarHawk Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Best module On Mon, 20 Apr 1998, Vogt, Vincent N wrote: >I have recently received the latest issue of Dragon magazine and inside of it I found a ballot for the voting of the best module ever by TSR and the winner is going to be reprinted. I would like to suggest that we all pick up a ballot and vote for a Mystarian module. I believe that you can pick up the ballots at your local retailer if you do not receive Dragon magazine. I think that we should all decide which module to vote for then all vote for the same one. What a great thing it would be to see Mystara in print again. I would like to suggest the module B10 be the one to get the votes. This is My vote goes for B10 as well. Its probably the best single module I've seen. I like the HWA series better, but they'd really need to be printed together. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 21:00:26 -0400 (EDT) From: StarHawk Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Another question about countries..=) Well civilized Darokin has no influence on the Broken Lands, because to put it bluntly, Orcs is dumb. And they're far too disorganized to get any kind of civilized system going. Sind is pretty much held in check by religious oppression/belief etc. If I remember correctly the ruling class of Sind is by no means stuck in the Dark Ages, they just have a disproportionate allocation of limited resources. Karameikos has little trade or travel (at least pre-WOTI). Duke Stephen only recently put roads in the country, they're technology is being held back by the landscape and the creatures living in it. (Werewolves, gnolls, orcs, vampires, fairies, elves, bears, wolves, etc.) On Mon, 20 Apr 1998, The Athar wrote: >Hola: >Can someone explain to me how all these completely different cultures with different technology levels exist so close to each other? How can a highly civilized Darokin exist next to a Dark Ages Broken Land, a barely-settled, Middle Ages Karameikos, and East of a Dark Ages Sind? >- Technocrat >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 21:00:18 EDT From: LandoTW Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gun powder? If you REALLY wanna get technical about it......its not really "gun-powder" in the sence one may be thinking. Remember...the Smoke-Powder is a semi-magical substance that comes from the other "magical" substances that are only located on the Savage Coast. What that says to me is that the nations of the Savage Coast have a "monopoly" on this substance and would probably guard it fiercely...that being said however, the smoke-powder itself is really only prevalant in 2 of the Savage Baronies (Cimmaron County and Guadalante)...... So in a nutshell....Smoke-Powder is RARE and only found on the Savage Coast....and on the Savage Coast it is uncommon and only widely used in two of the Baronies.........but, who knows what may happen in different campaigns...... Al *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 21:10:43 -0400 From: robertn Subject: [MYSTARA] - 'unsubscribe mystara-1' StarHawk wrote: >On Mon, 20 Apr 1998, Vogt, Vincent N wrote: >>I have recently received the latest issue of Dragon magazine and inside of it I found a ballot for the voting of the best module ever by TSR and the winner is going to be reprinted. I would like to suggest that we all pick up a ballot and vote for a Mystarian module. I believe that you can pick up the ballots at your local retailer if you do not receive Dragon magazine. I think that we should all decide which module to vote for then all vote for the same one. What a great thing it would be to see Mystara in print again. I would like to suggest the module B10 be the one to get the votes. This is >My vote goes for B10 as well. Its probably the best single module I've seen. I like the HWA series better, but they'd really need to be printed together. >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. 'unsubscribe mystara-1' *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 22:04:51 -0400 From: Daly Subject: [MYSTARA] - MystaranWriters At 09:14 AM 4/21/98 EST, you wrote: How about some people get together under your gguidance and write a Shadow Elf adventure for inclusion in the good old Dungeon magazine? Funny you should mention this. As part of the SaveMystara movement we have been developing MystaraWriters groups in order to pelt RPGA with well written Mystaran adventures. This is where Bruce suggests our attention should be focused. Anyone interested in participating in any of these groups please email me with "MystaranWriters" in your subject area. Please only join us if you are interested in seeing TSR resurrect Mystara. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 23:02:04 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: [MYSTARA] - Speculation re Immortals In a message dated 98-04-20 11:33:22 EDT, jdaly@friend.ly.net writes: >He may be right. Can anyone else think of, for instance, another campaign ssetting in which the Immortals are specific to particular national boundaries? Well -- if I am not mistaken, the worship of many Powers in the Forgotten Realms has regional if not national boundaries. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 23:02:03 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] ???????? In a message dated 98-04-20 05:10:30 EDT, anakin@uq.net.au writes: >I have for the first time run a group of adventurers up to a semi-high level. The party fighter defeated a Roaring Fiend in combat and I allowed him to claim the fiend's weapon's (in prelude to doing something nasty to the fighter). Well, this fiend's weapons are described as being of artifact power -- so look through the list of artifact adverse effects and pick whichever one you find most suitable. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 23:02:12 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Another question about countries..=) In a message dated 98-04-20 18:53:26 EDT, TheAthar@aol.com writes: >Can someone explain to me how all these completely different cultures with ddifferent technology levels exist so close to each other? How can a highly civilized Darokin exist next to a Dark Ages Broken Land, a barely-settled, Middle Ages Karameikos, and East of a Dark Ages Sind? I suspect that the technological differences are economic in origin. Darokin seems to be highly civilized because it is so wealthy -- but you will notice that for the most part all of these nations use similar weapons and armor with similar stats. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 23:04:28 -0400 From: Ron Murphy Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Best module and Mystaran uniqueness Ron Murphy wrote: >I just found a copy of Saga of the Shadowlord and read through it. It is a fantastic module with a villain that could be used to fuel a campaign for years. In fact, the module has two separate but related adventures. I highly recommend it and it would go on my choices for top four modules, except I want to see something reprinted that I don't have...*g* >Ron >rmurphy@terran-ent.com >Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are chewy and taste great dipped in chocolate. >Shawn Stanley wrote: >>It seems that B10 is certainly a popular choice - and of course to have any D&D module reprinted a unified front is what we would have to show. But Karameikos ... ewwww yucky. Nevertheless united we stand yadda yadda. >>However for my money something like X11 Saga of the Shadowlord would be better because it is 1) a good module and 2) it details new parts of Mystara. I just found a copy of Saga of the Shadowlord and read through it. It is a fantastic module with a villain that could be used to fuel a campaign for years. In fact, the module has two separate but related adventures. I highly recommend it and it would go on my choices for top four modules, except I want to see something reprinted that I don't have...*g* Ron rmurphy@terran-ent.com Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are chewy and taste great dipped in chocolate. Shawn Stanley wrote: >It seems that B10 is certainly a popular choice - and of course to have any D&D module reprinted a unified front is what we would have to show. But Karameikos ... ewwww yucky. Nevertheless united we stand yadda yadda. >However for my money something like X11 Saga of the Shadowlord would be better because it is 1) a good module and 2) it details new parts of Mystara. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 00:22:32 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gun powder? In a message dated 98-04-20 21:23:52 EDT, LandoTW@aol.com writes: >Remember...the Smoke-Powder is a semi-magical substance that comes from the oother "magical" substances that are only located on the Savage Coast. >What that says to me is that the nations of the Savage Coast have a " monopoly" >on this substance and would probably guard it fiercely...that being said however, the smoke-powder itself is really only prevalant in 2 of the Savage >Baronies (Cimmaron County and Guadalante)...... Of course that does raise an interesting question -- is smoke powder available only on the Savage Coast, or is the Savage Coast the only place that it works? If the latter, then guarding the secret is less critical. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 00:01:43 -0600 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Some Modules for Sale, Including all the DA Series Mystarans, I just made a large, bulk purchase of OD&D modules from a friend of mine who really didn't want them any more. It included B10!!!! Hahahha!!!! Finally! Anyway, included in the batch was several modules I already had, and thought I would see if anyone on the list was interested... I am looking to sell these as one lot, unless, of course, I get no response. The modules are... DA1 Adventures in Blackmoor DA2 Temple of the Frog DA3 City of the Gods DA4 Duchy of Ten X10 Red Arrow, Black Shield CM3 Sabre River CM5 Quest for the Snow Pearls CM6 Where Chaos Reigns Quality varies. DA2, for example, looks like it just came out of the shrinkwrap. On the average, I would call them Good, with a few above that, and one or two a bit below. All are fully intact, still together, no significant rips or folds, in good usable condition. They include all maps and parts (including the red viewer thingy for CM5). The four DA modules are all Good to Near Mint. Two exceptions... CM6 has a bunch of text highlighted on the first two pages, plus part of the pull-out pages (which aren't pulled out). Everything is readable, nothing is missing, it is just that the first two pages are very neon pink. X10 is missing the counters used in the wargame portion of the module. Everything else is there. The counters for my own copy have not been punched, so I can include a copy of those on thicker index card-like paper. Several copies, if you like. This is not an auction. The price is $30 (American dollars, of course :), plus shipping and handling. This is less than five bucks a module, and quite low compared to all other prices I have seen on online game stores and auctions. I am selling it this low to move it out as a whole, and I would much rather see it sold to a list member than someone else. Send replies to me, not the list. If I go to check my mail and find multiple replies (i.e. real offers), I will roll randomly to see who gets it. Course, if I get no replies at all, I will sulk for a while and take it to rec.games.frp.marketplace. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com ICQ #4253672 "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #231 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 12:03:51 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #232 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Tuesday, April 21 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 232 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gun powder? Re: [MYSTARA] - Another question about countries..=) Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Best module and Mystaran uniqueness [MYSTARA] - Corran Keep Re: [MYSTARA] - Darokin Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs Glantri ("Will this never end!" - C3P0) Re: [MYSTARA] - Another question about countries..=) Re: [MYSTARA] - Corran Keep Re: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] ???????? Re: [MYSTARA] - Another question about countries..=) Re: [MYSTARA] - Speculation re Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Another question about countries..=) [MYSTARA] - Is there any frog here ... [MYSTARA] - Starting Mystara [MYSTARA] - Is there any frog here ... Re: [MYSTARA] - Gun powder? Re: [MYSTARA] - Ongoing Story Re: [MYSTARA] - Gun powder? Re: [MYSTARA] - Ongoing Story Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Best module and Mystaran uniqueness Re: Re[4]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World Re: [MYSTARA] - Some Modules for Sale, Including all the DA Series Re: [MYSTARA] - Some Modules for Sale, Including all the DA Series ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 01:11:19 PDT From: "Paris Isabelle" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gun powder? >Hola: >I'm relatively new to the Mystara (Known World) setting, and I am wondering if >any of the more "advanced" cultures (Darokin, Thyatis, Alpatia, etc.) have >invented gunpowder? I know that the Savage Coast has it, but does anyone in >the Known World? Bonjour à toi ... No one in Known World has already 'discovered' gunpowder ... in fact nobody redicover it, as it has been obviously known during Blackmoor (a period during which a spaceship fall on KW). But I'd like to have an explanation of why pistols didn't come in KW from Savage Cost ??? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 01:17:35 PDT From: "Paris Isabelle" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Another question about countries..=) >Hola: >Can someone explain to me how all these completely different cultures with >different technology levels exist so close to each other? How can a highly >civilized Darokin exist next to a Dark Ages Broken Land, a barely-settled, >Middle Ages Karameikos, and East of a Dark Ages Sind? Re hi ... I've never really understand how such gap beetween different civilisation can be maintained, but in HW box set they gave an 'explanation' of it thew the population movement during the history of the region. I'd thought that trading would have change more the different countries to make something quite 'homogene' ( don't know how to translate : make all the same ) but it seems not ... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 09:36:06 +0000 (GMT) From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Best module and Mystaran uniqueness >It seems that B10 is certainly a popular choice - and of course to have any D&D module reprinted a unified front is what we would have to show. But Karameikos ... ewwww yucky. Nevertheless united we stand yadda yadda. Well, Karameikos is the starting point for the known world, first gazeteer, first modules, and many, many people who cursed Bargle for killing Aleena...also I'd like to read it now after reading all the comments about it! >However for my money something like X11 Saga of the Shadowlord would be better because it is 1) a good module and 2) it details new parts of Mystara. It's good, but I've already got it :) :) Also, as Vinny said, setting it in one of the countries that there's still information about would prehaps raise awareness and all that jazz. >Create a short adventure with >them and maybe one of the other _big_ Mystaran unique identities and if it's printed in Dungeon then we're well on our way to that thing that we all want to see - Mystara back on the TSR frontburner. Shadow elves would make a great adventure plot, especially if it involved the Radiance Mk II somehow...plus links to the Hollow World (lost Azcan's) and Glantri/Darokin/Alfheim...lots going for it... >Get DA1-4 reprinted. Umn, I've never seen DA1-4 but although they are Mystara oriented, they're not really Known World oriented which for my money is the best bit of Mystara...(KW inc Alphatia btw :) ) >Get a Shadow Elf adventure published in Dungeon. Great idea! Make me buy it again! :) >Suggest a new Odyessy Mystara specific release. What is that? Oh, and what is Tale of the Comet? >Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering? I think so Brain but if these realms are so forgotten why does everyone seem to know so much about them? LOL :) gordon http://seija.ucd.ie/dnd/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 00:09:25 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: [MYSTARA] - Corran Keep In the WotI map Corran Keep appears in the hex north of Fort Lakeside in Glantrian territory! Is this another TSR mistake or can you give a plausible explanation? Bye. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 00:17:52 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Darokin At 11.30 20/04/98 PDT, George Valencia wrote: >The next Outer Council Election happens on AC 1016 The Great Reckoning was to happen on AC 1015,1020 Bruce thought it was simpler to have start everything in 1000 AC, and go from there. Where did you get those info from? Gaz 11 clearly states that the Great Reckoning is held in the years the end with 3 or 8, e.g. 1013, 1018.... - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 00:37:43 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs Glantri ("Will this never end!" - C3P0) At 19.08 20/04/98 +0100, Robert Fry wrote: ((I apologise for the heresy of using AD+D rather than D+D, which does weight things slightly in favour of Glantri...) :-) >Concerning magic items - as a DM I dislike them. A couple is fine, masses are not. Gone are the days in my campaign where PCs tote 10+ items of destruction. The reason? Well, Thincol the Brave (the mightiest Warrior Ever) totes... a +2 two handed sword. +2?????!!!!!????!!!!! If anyone has(had?) an excuse for wielding the sword +5, +10 vs everything its Thincol, Emperor of Thyatis. Even some of the Princes of Glantri are a bit... lacking. Just a note. My PCs do not have a lot of magic items and the ones they have are not extremely powerful, but my Mystara is magic rich, so nearly everyone can get some powerful item... he/she just needs the money... >Pierce Any Shield - its in G:KoM - and it enables the wizard to cast a subsequent spell that ignores all magical defences and immunities (so your Guardian Tanar'ri with 90% Magic Res and immune to fire can be blasted by the Meteor Swarm spell...) I don't like it very much... maybe because I don't like spells and spellcasters :-) >Disintegrate??? I believe Moglai Khan probably has a saving throw of around 2 against that spell... Glantrians that dumb deserve to become Dust in the Wind, dude. Characters (either PC or NPC) doesn't know about saving throws... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 18:48:56 +1000 From: Horsten Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Another question about countries..=) The Athar wrote: >Hola: >Can someone explain to me how all these completely different cultures with different technology levels exist so close to each other? How can a highly civilized Darokin exist next to a Dark Ages Broken Land, a barely-settled, Middle Ages Karameikos, and East of a Dark Ages Sind? >- Technocrat >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. Greetings, The point raised about the hollow world may also explain this to some degree. All the cultures in the hollow world are held in stasis by the immortals, while the people change the borders and cultures do not change significantly. This could also be true about the known world, while there are great changes occasionally the immortals may be keeping the cultures in check. When cultures are about to be destroyed immortal's will move that culture to the hollow world to be preserved (eg Alpahatia). Maybe the immortals are holding the cultural borders still to some degree. also some cultures do effect other countries, part of thyatis has a strong ylari presence.... and so on. Bye, Anakin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 07:14:35 -0400 From: Ron Murphy Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Corran Keep Corran Keep is directly on the Glantri/Darokin border, so placing it in one hex or the other would have been correct. However, the point is now moot...(hee hee).. Ron Fabrizio Paoli wrote: >In the WotI map Corran Keep appears in the hex north of Fort Lakeside in Glantrian territory! >Is this another TSR mistake or can you give a plausible explanation? >Bye. >-------------- >Fabrizio Paoli >brizio@lunet.it >Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 -------------- >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 07:28:33 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - This elemental thing << if you wish to know about what a creature closest to representing the Negative Plane, try the entry on the Apodalypse in the Night of the Shark Module of the Monsterous Arcana. >> Actually, the Xorn has been said to be a native to the negative plane. It's not likely that many creatures could exist in that plane though.....so I've also created an Elemental-type of creature that's a native to that plane as well. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 04:40:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Rigoni Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] ???????? - ---Glen Sprigg wrote: >At 06:48 PM 4/20/98 +1000, you wrote: >>Anyways I was just looking for any ideas of what to do to this fellow ( >>a rather proud/ arrogant fighter). >>So anyone got any interesting ideas for what I could do to this fellow? >Well...I don't know how a human fighter would feel after wielding a Roaring >Demon's weapons, but I'm sure he woudn't feel too chipper; make the weapons >cursed in some way; the typical -1 or -2 or whatever isn't really that impressive. How about the weapons cause a weakness, or even better, a wasting disease of some sort. They are, after all, weapons of Entropy. How >will this fighter feel about watching his arms withering away a little more >every time he draws the Demon sword? I know what you can do with him. Give him a sword of maiming doom. It's a weapon a I made up in one of my campains. Sword of Maiming Doom +5 to hit +5 to damage +3 to Thaco and any target hit must resist a death magic save -5 or be destroyed. This should really help your warrior, Michael Rigoni >Glen *************************************************************************** TTo unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 07:46:40 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Another question about countries..=) << Can someone explain to me how all these completely different cultures with different technology levels exist so close to each other? How can a highly civilized Darokin exist next to a Dark Ages Broken Land, a barely-settled, Middle Ages Karameikos, and East of a Dark Ages Sind? >> All of the Known world countries are held in check by other forces and technology isn't the stat that shows power and dominance in the Known World. Darokin can exist near the Broken Lands for many reasons. The most obvious being how Darokin is limited to their ability to spread as they border so many other countries. If Darokin wished to take the offensive on any country without help, they would only be able to release a small percent of their army into battle, lest allow another country see a weakness in the Darokin army at their borders...then act upon it. Another reason would be because of the alarming reproduction rate of Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 12:03:51 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #232 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com humanoids. It seems as if after any major wars the broken lands are in, they just fill in the losses in a matter of months or a small amount of years. Thyatis has too many internal problems to really worry about any other country at this time. They were in the same state when Karameikos gained independance. Thyatis knows they could've stopped Stefan, but he couldn't risk sending out the manpower to accomplish it. It goes on and on through all the countries. They all have major weaknesses and major powers that allow the countries not to disappear to often and limit the countries not to take another country to often. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 07:55:46 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Speculation re Immortals At 11:02 PM 4/20/98 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 98-04-20 11:33:22 EDT, jdaly@friend.ly.net writes: >>He may be right. Can anyone else think of, for instance, another campaign sssetting in which the Immortals are specific to particular national boundaries? >Well -- if I am not mistaken, the worship of many Powers in the Forgotten Realms has regional if not national boundaries. My Paladin of Torm can go just about anywhere along the Sword Coast and find a temple. >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 07:57:34 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Another question about countries..=) At 11:02 PM 4/20/98 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 98-04-20 18:53:26 EDT, TheAthar@aol.com writes: >>Can someone explain to me how all these completely different cultures with dddifferent technology levels exist so close to each other? How can a highly civilized Darokin exist next to a Dark Ages Broken Land, a barely-settled, Middle Ages Karameikos, and East of a Dark Ages Sind? >I suspect that the technological differences are economic in origin. Darokin seems to be highly civilized because it is so wealthy -- but you will notice that for the most part all of these nations use similar weapons and armor with similar stats. Actually they don't...unless the operative word is "similar". The people of Darokin specialize in rapiers and polearms. They wear light armor with a metal breastplate. Karameikans tend to ride horses and wear more plate armor and wield the more "knightly" weapons. Ethengarians...well, I'll let Jamuga handle them... >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 05:48:59 PDT From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Is there any frog here ... Hi all ... I wanna know if there are french (exept me) here : I'd gladly exchange information and stuff concerning D&D ... A au fait j'habite sur Paris (depuis peu mais ca compte quand même). thanks ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 14:24:42 +0100 From: Andy.P.Smith@marks-and-spencer.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Starting Mystara My tale is full of woe. A long, long time ago I ran First Quest, followed by Karameikos. The players were all very new to rpgs (FQ was a wonderful introduction) and a good time was had by all. Unfortunately a fellow player decided to DM and, unable to realistically stop him, he purchased the Karameikos boxed set and screwed the whole setting up. So, I moved onto Realms, which I TRIED like hell to bond with, but failed. My question is this:- I have been away from the Mystara materials for about 2-3 years. What is available now for purchase in terms of modules and so on. . . I have seen a D&D boxed set which looks similar to FQ, but I didn't get the shrinkwrap off in time to look . Comments please. . . Nemesis *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 06:24:59 PDT From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Is there any frog here ... Hi all ... I wanna know if there are french (exept me) here : I'd gladly exchange information and stuff concerning D&D ... A au fait j'habite sur Paris (depuis peu mais ca compte quand même). thanks ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 10:16:12 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gun powder? In a message dated 98-04-21 04:28:58 EDT, you write: << No one in Known World has already 'discovered' gunpowder ... in fact nobody redicover it, as it has been obviously known during Blackmoor (a period during which a spaceship fall on KW).>> I am unsure if the Blackmoor had gunpowder charged weapons. IIRC the tech of Federation was devoid of this focusing on lasers and such. Since the Blackmoor's tech level was influenced heavily on this City of the Gods, the gunpowder step of weapon evolution may not have even been utilized. As mentioned to some of the Davania folks, I had visions of Blackmoor weapons based on technology different from gunpowder and even lasers. The weapons I envisioned were based on weapons described by the author David Drake in his Hammer's Slammers related books. For those unacquainted with the Slammers they are a group of Sci-Fi mercenaries that make Starship Troopers look like choir boys. They ride in iridium alloyed hover tanks and open topped APCs, all aided by some of the best artificial intelligence money can buy. Before I ramble way too far out of context.... In short, these weapons, called POWERGUNS, operated on an atomic level catalyst. A cartridge was ignited and a Cyan bolt produced sending a small mass of plasma towards the target. <> Aside from the rarity of smoke powder, there is also the limited range of said product. IIRC smoke powder is a magical substance and acts (reacts) only in the SC area. Taken outside these bounderies a weilder will be lucky to get a few sputtering sparks. That is IIRC and am not too mistaken. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 10:32:42 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ongoing Story In a message dated 98-04-20 12:58:05 EDT, you write: << Speaking of that Ongoing Story. What ever happened to it? >> Well it died with the TSR on AOL boards. It would be nice to get it rolling again. IIRC all the subplotlines were getting good. For those not aware of what is being discussed, the Ongoing Story was a story posted by the AOL Mystara crowd. IIRC it was originally set up so that each would add the next story segment to the last post. But somehow it evolved into a campaign with several subplots written by several of the posters. Each author taking turns submitting their next segment to the readers. IIRC they would someday all come together in some world shaking adventure. I wonder if anyone out there in MML Land has these saved. It could be interesting to repost these or put them up somewhere and restart the Story again. If not, then perhaps a Story started anew. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 16:58:04 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gun powder? On Mon, 20 Apr 1998, The Athar wrote: >Hola: >I'm relatively new to the Mystara (Known World) setting, and I am wondering if any of the more "advanced" cultures (Darokin, Thyatis, Alpatia, etc.) have invented gunpowder? I know that the Savage Coast has it, but does anyone in the Known World? Hola Amigo! (showing off my spanish) the question of firearms in the known world is left to the GM (or DM) Bruce Heard wrote an article in Dragon suggesting that gunpowder was introduced to the Known World as a by product of the Great War (WotI) I am one of the few people here who want to introduce gunpowedr into mystara, and we have had several debates on that issue. I'm not ready for gunpowder in AC1010. However I'm thinking that gunpowder should be getting common around AC1150. That means that we might soon see test models.. I think the Dwarves might already be experimenting with em. All this IMC (InMyCampaign) ofcourse. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 11:11:53 EDT From: RLaRue Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ongoing Story Alex wrote: >>I wonder if anyone out there in MML Land has these saved. It could be interesting to repost these or put them up somewhere and restart the Story again. If not, then perhaps a Story started anew.<< I believe I have the whole thing somewhere on my computer. It hasn't been edited and still contains the hard returns AOL added to the old boards. If anyone wants to weed through 100+ pages of text and clean it up, just ask and I'll send it along. I have one request of any editors; all of the original authors must receive credit. I have them listed as a collaboration(sp?) and I'd like that to follow the story where ever it goes. If the story were to get started again, I'd like to see it stick to the original "cliffhanger" type format that it started with. I always thought that was a lot of fun. Rick PS I'm still trying to find time to post my version of Mystara and Planescape, but an important project at work is taking up alot of my time. Soon I hope. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 10:48:05 -0500 From: Scott and Juliette Karjala Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Best module and Mystaran uniqueness Hi All, I have just a kind of general question. How does everyone feel about Wizards of the Coast purchasing TSR? Sera Angel *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 11:55:45 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: Re[4]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World In a message dated 98-04-20 17:40:40 EDT, you write: << I guess you forgot about Glantri's use of magic as a commodity, in the form of spells, components, conjured monsters, and WANDS. yes, wands, what if the battle mages had wand of fireballs, then they'd be ready to roast many ethangars before the could get to melee range. how's that for an equalizer for the Glantri? No I did not forget about the Wands. G:KoM says little on wands in the hands of battle mages. Says they use their memorized spells and are able to use some added melee weapons. Magic Missile, Blur, and Color Spray spells to be exact. Only the officers have the wands and I think they are wands of Lightening Bolts. Allowing Wands to all the battlemages is a big "IF". And theree has been too many "Ifs" added to this thread already. I do not have Glantri Gaz so I do not know what it says about them. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 11:00:43 -0500 From: Troy J Sandlin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Some Modules for Sale, Including all the DA Series Hail Leroy, I read your post concerning the modules and am very intrested. I sent a message via ICQ (hope that was OK). Please let me know if mine is the lucky number. =) Thanks - -TS Nevar *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 11:03:26 -0500 From: Troy J Sandlin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Some Modules for Sale, Including all the DA Series Troy J Sandlin wrote: >Hail Leroy, >I read your post concerning the modules and am very intrested. I sent a message via ICQ (hope that was OK). Please let me know if mine is the lucky number. =) Thanks >-TS Nevar Sorry everybody, that was supposed to be a private one. Wasn't paying attention. Please forgive. - -TS Nevar *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #232 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 16:02:39 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #233 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Tuesday, April 21 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 233 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Clerics at war. Re: [MYSTARA] - Best module [MYSTARA] - Some events from my PBEM [MYSTARA] - Tale of the Comet [MYSTARA] - Negative Planar beasties... Re: [MYSTARA] - Best module [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) Re: [MYSTARA] - Gun powder? [MYSTARA] - Re: Re: Best module and Mystaran uniqueness Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) Re: [MYSTARA] - Gun powder? Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) [MYSTARA] - Best Modules!!! Re: [MYSTARA] - Gun powder? Re: [MYSTARA] - Another question about countries..=) [MYSTARA] - Lesser Fiends ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 12:52:53 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Clerics at war. << How about Valerias as a patron? One of her titles is "Girder-On of Weapons", after all. And she did side with Alphatia in the War. >> As a player of a high-level cleric of Valerias I agree whole-heartedly. Jamuga Khan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 12:52:54 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Best module << i agree lets pool our votes and go for it.b10 for best module >> I have it (though not complete) and I have played it as DM, but I could vote on that. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 20:01:09 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Some events from my PBEM Hello, Just thought to share some interesting events from my Mystaran Birthright PBEM. Maybe you can get some use out of them. One thing that often gets ignored is the relations between the merchants of the Known World. Particularly Darokin and Minrothad could have a rivalry. In my PBEM, Minrothad and Linton house are already on the brink of a trade war :) Minrothad started the conflict by spreading rumors about Linton being connected to Hattian racists. Darokin countered by dealing a heavy blow to Meditor - a persistent rumor circulates about Minrothad's supposed alliance to the Master of Hule. Now Meditor and Linton are at each other's throats, just about ready to kick some serious arse. And they pulled others into it, too. Thyatis has signed a tight alliance with Karameikos and Minrothad. Darokin, OTOH, is quite friendly with a number of countries, including Ylaruam, Five Shires, Alfheim, and Ethengar. I sense some serious conflict here (and we don't even have/need Alphatia :) Other stuff: Vestland, Soderfjord, and Heldannic Knights are plotting against Ostland like crazy, ready to slice it apart (they are tired of constant raiding). Ostland is desperately trying to get Thyatis to help it, but Thyatis's attention is occupied with Hattias (in my game it's an independent state). And most surprising of all is the peace treaty between Alfheim and Shadow Elves. Alfheim basically agreed to give the town of Ainsun to the Shadow Elves, completely voluntarily. Of course, the temples of Ilsundal and Rafiel aren't going to be swayed that easily :) ************ Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 17:55:56 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Tale of the Comet For those who dont know, Tale of the COmet is a mini campaign (expandable to a major campaign) which can be slotted into Any Campaign... (its one of those Odyssey boxes). Its basically about a crashed spaceship(the comet) and the adventures sparked off by it. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 17:53:18 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Negative Planar beasties... ><< if you wish to know about what a creature closest tto representing the Negative Plane, try the entry on the Apodalypse in the Night of the Shark Module of the Monsterous Arcana. >> Creatures from the Negative Material have just got to be (in my humble opinion) the three Nightshades (nightcrawler, nightwing, and i forget the other one... lol). They are supposed to come from that plane, are made from Negative Energy, and are Mystaran... (Alphaks seems to use them a lot). ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 18:22:37 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Best module >I just had a sudden nightmare. Could you imagine B2 winning and then, sense it is written to be in any setting, the folks at TSR releasing a Forgotten Realms version of that module?? >AAAGGHHH! What can I say - heresy... Well, they took Glantri and turned it into Ravenloft, in my opinion, so it doesnt surprise me... (Strahd = Morphail, Brannart = Tristan, Harkon Lukas = evil Malachie, that guy who keeps attacking Azalin = Jaggar, and a few others...) But I am reaching a bit there. I see Mystara all around me... (anyone considered the similarities between Anauroch and the Ylari desert? Or Alphatia and Netheril?) Nooo - must stop... :) ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 18:14:53 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) (sigh). Look - Ethengar cannot beat Glantri militarily. If someone can point out exactly how they can (I reckon subterfuge) I'm impressed. Reasons follow.... Glantri is more advanced technologically (Renaissance vs Bronze Age - IRL there is just no way on that reason alone!) Glantri has a greater population (600,000 compared to 330,000). Glantri has a bigger raisable army (even allowing for Bronze Age cultures being able to sustain larger number of troops in the field, this is more than offset by the fact that Glantri has double the population...) Glantri has more money (what kind of economy have the Ethies got??? OK - horses. Glantri has magic - it is the only really magic heavy kingdom in the KW - it has a well developed merchants guild, good relations with Darokin, despite the Broken Lands etc. etc.). Money means mercenaries, training, bribes, good quality weapons, etc. etc. Glantri has magic. Ethengar doesn't. Ethengar may be able to scrape a few priests and shamans together. Not as many as Glantri can field mages (1 in 20 Glantrians is supposed to be a mage. Thus for parity (population again) Ethengar must field at least 1 in 10 priests. I dont think so... they aren't a theocracy like the Heldannics!). Clerics are not as good as mages in supporting armies anyway. Mages can be drafted - clerics might be against war (depending on how the Immortals view this little mosh). The Ethengars are fighting on unfamiliar terrain. If they attack through the mountains, it'll be Skullhorn Pass... and it will be a massacre. If they attack through Boldavia or Belcadiz, it'll mean going past a fortress(Monteleone or Tchernovodsk). Bronze Age siege technology vs Renaissance??? If they go for the Boldavia route I imagine a mysterious plague of vampirism will be visited upon the Ethengars, and Morphail will get a whole lot of new recruits into his army. Glantri probably has more allies than the Ethengars. Darokin is a peaceful nation, but they are merchants - as cold as gold, in my opinion. Glantrian trade is a "nice little earner". Ethengars turning Glantri into a wasteland will not be good for the Darokinian economy. The DDC will probably try (and do a good job) of trying to broker a peace. The Heldannic Territories - ok there is a bit of unrest here. This may seem to be bad for wars, but historically that is normally the time IRL that nations have gone to war - to unite the people behind a common enemy. Besides, they might get into Vanyas good books again if they do that. Rockhome - isolationist, they won't be any help ("Humph! get lost" - Dwarven Maxim). The Viking places? They'll be as eager to rape and pillage the Ethengars as they will be the Glantrians! More likely they'll be up for some Glantrian gold and serve as mercenaries. So what have the Ethies actually got? They have only one card they can play - and thats exploit the internal conflicts that Glantri has. This isn't favouritism. In my opinion it is The Way It Is - facts. If anyone wants to dispute this then I'll be interested as to what they say (Khan!!! lol). In my opinion favouritism will be if a small backward country can be seen to defeat a large, advanced nation in a straight fight. Subterfuge, my friends... ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 14:33:05 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gun powder? I run a Savage Coast campaign, and I firmly believe that smokepowder should Stay There. Hmm - it would suck a bit if instead of killing Landryn Teriak in a one on one the party place a few kegs of gunpowder at the base of his tower and blow it sky high... in my experience guns (even snaplock muskets and cannon, which I have in my RS campaign) are no where near as much of a problem as explosives... And smokepowder is soooo cheap on the Savage Coast!!! even multiplying its price by 10 means that PCs can be carrying around a tacnuke in their Bag of Holding (to avoid nasty accidents...). Vermeil is a component of RS smokepowder - and vermeil fades away upon leaving the Coast. So I say that RS Smokepowder doesnt function beyond the Haze. I do allow Glantrian Alchemists who have been to the S.C. to make nonmagical smokepowder, which I consider acceptable as these alchemy potions lose their powers in a couple of days - this allows quantities suitable for guns, but not cannon or 500 charges hidden in the dragons lair by the thief... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: 21 Apr 1998 12:39:13 -0500 From: Alan Shutko Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Re: Best module and Mystaran uniqueness >>>>>"S" == Scott and Juliette Karjala writes: S> Hi All, I have just a kind of general question. How does everyone S> feel about Wizards of the Coast purchasing TSR? Pretty good, since Peter Adkinson told me he liked Mystara. 8^) - -- Alan Shutko - By consent of the corrupted Everyone was born right-handed. Only the greatest overcome it. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 11:53:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Diego Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) Salve, I have yet to get into the debate, but here are my two coppers: Do with them what you will, I am always open to further refinements, and I am not above seeing that I am wrong if that happens to be the case. I composed this in about a half hour between classes and know that this is not perfect. Let the battle begin! On Tue, 21 Apr 1998, Robert Fry wrote: >(sigh). Look - Ethengar cannot beat Glantri militarily. If someone can point out exactly how they can (I reckon subterfuge) I'm impressed. Reasons follow.... maybe not beat, but they can take a great deal of land before being called to the table so to speak. >Glantri is more advanced technologically (Renaissance vs Bronze Age - IRL there is just no way on that reason alone!) Not true. Ethengar can get nearly equal weapons in trade rrelations. In the gaz. The great khans court has a good amount of gold and merchants do cross the Broken lands. >Glantri has a greater population (600,000 compared to 330,000). True, and Rome out numbered the Barbarians. But... Rome had only about a ratio of 400:1 or 500:1 (people to warriors in the armed forces) and The barbarians were able to field about 4-1 to 5-1 warriors in tribal force. Not to say that this is exactly the same but the ethies will have more people immedietly, and better unit cohesion. Therefore in the innitial strike the Ethies wil have an advantage. >Glantri has a bigger raisable army (even allowing for Bronze Age cultures being able to sustain larger number of troops in the field, this is more than offset by the fact that Glantri has double the population...) Not necessarily as in above and later arguments. Also, in an offensive strike the massed army of Glantri will not all be in one place at the same time. >Glantri has more money (what kind of economy have the Ethies got??? OK - horses. Glantri has magic - it is the only really magic heavy kingdom in the KW - it has a well developed merchants guild, good relations with Darokin, despite the Broken Lands etc. etc.). Money means mercenaries, training, bribes, good quality weapons, etc. etc. It does have money, and property. People want those things. The Ethies do not have the same economy. Therefore the people of Glantri will need more troops to defend the unattacked boarders against other people wishing a slice of the pie. Bribes will not be very effective when in the suprise attack booty is carried off by the invading force. And IIRC there are not thousands of mercenaries waiting to be hired in Glantri. It will take time to arrange the exact payments of mercs, and during that time the strike will be incredibly effective. Also, after the War of the immortals Glantri will have a significan part of its economy gone due to the destruction of lands, and the loss of a unifying force in the loss of the prince Etinne, and the diety Rad. >Glantri has magic. Ethengar doesn't. Ethengar may be able to scrape a few priests and shamans together. Not as many as Glantri can field mages (1 in 20 Glantrians is supposed to be a mage. Thus for parity (population again) Ethengar must field at least 1 in 10 priests. I dont think so... they aren't a theocracy like the Heldannics!). Clerics are not as good as mages in supporting armies anyway. Mages can be drafted - clerics might be against war (depending on how the Immortals view this little mosh). The greatest advantage that Glantri has will be magic. I agree. magic will be the reason that Glantri as a whole will not fall and a stalemate will be declared. As I have said before all of the magic in the Kingdom will not be brought to bear immedietly because others will attack given the oppertunity. For example can anyone see the hordes in the broken lands stitting around waiting for Glantri to raise troops before they themselves take advantage of the distraction that the Ethies are making. Humanoids are not that stupid. In addition, the Humanoids will be attacking both forces. But if the Ethies plan right they will be able to make the Glantrians look much more appealing. >The Ethengars are fighting on unfamiliar terrain. If they attack through the mountains, it'll be Skullhorn Pass... and it will be a massacre. If they attack through Boldavia or Belcadiz, it'll mean going past a fortress(Monteleone or Tchernovodsk). Bronze Age siege technology vs Renaissance??? If they go for the Boldavia route I imagine a mysterious plague of vampirism will be visited upon the Ethengars, and Morphail will get a whole lot of new recruits into his army. See my next point. But while I am here the Turkish peoples were able to invade persia quite effectivly and then extend all the way to Anatolia. I am not proposing that kind of upset. I am merely showing that they can adapt as other people have. IIRC the Ethies make raids into glantri once in a while and therefore would know at least a bit about fightig in that region. Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 16:02:39 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #233 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com >Glantri probably has more allies than the Ethengars. Darokin is a peaceful nation, but they are merchants - as cold as gold, in my opinion. Glantrian trade is a "nice little earner". Ethengars turning Glantri into a wasteland will not be good for the Darokinian economy. The DDC will probably try (and do a good job) of trying to broker a peace. I disagree with the first part and agree with the second. The DDC will intervene before Glantri has fallen, but not before a sizable piece of land will already be Ethie territory. >The Heldannic Territories - ok there is a bit of unrest here. This may seem to be bad for wars, but historically that is normally the time IRL that nations have gone to war - to unite the people behind a common enemy. Besides, they might get into Vanyas good books again if they do that. I don't know that much about the Heldannic territories so I can not comment. Can someone inform me? :) >Rockhome - isolationist, they won't be any help ("Humph! get lost" - Dwarven Maxim). Rockhome the nation will do nothing. But the dwarves, remembering the years of imfamy will act. I think that a volenteer force of dwarves will agree to attack. They can then be shielded from scrying by the Ethie Shamen and Harkomen and be brought into place for a lightning strke at the passes and cities. They will be able to construct siege engines and be sappers. They will also even out the calvary of the Ethies. >The Viking places? They'll be as eager to rape and pillage the Ethengars as they will be the Glantrians! More likely they'll be up for some Glantrian gold and serve as mercenaries. True. But if the Ethiesmove most of their herds into the plains for defensive reasons the Vikings will get a whole lot of plains. With the Vikings knowing next to nothing about how to live in the steppes they will quickly be at the mercy of the Steppes dangers, such as the humanoids, black sands areas, and boader guard Ethies. >So what have the Ethies actually got? They have only one card they can play - and thats exploit the internal conflicts that Glantri has. they don't need "to exploit the internal conflicts that Glantri has" Glantri will do it for them. The council will all want their own agendas and various groups will make a power play to gain prestige to be in a better placement when the conflict is over. The Followers of the Claymore and the Canine Protection Agency will both be behind the lines supporters of the Ethies because the don't like the status quo. The Lycanthrope will hurt both sides as much as possible but the Followers will be friends. IIRC in the Gaz Glantri was a powder keg ready to explode. This is not the way to go to war. >This isn't favouritism. In my opinion it is The Way It Is - facts. If anyone wants to dispute this then I'll be interested as to what they say (Khan!!! lol). In my opinion favouritism will be if a small backward country can be seen to defeat a large, advanced nation in a straight fight. It was a good argument, and one that would work for a govenment like Modern day nations. Also, I agree Glantri would not be one hundred percent destroyed. The Ethie can't beat every stronghold before the Glantrians get posed for a devestating counter attack. The deciding factor would be luck. The Ethie have to do several things with out too much evidence and then their initial attack would have to work out well. One thing to remember is that a suprise attack would take much of the Steppes but the forces of Glantri would have problems holdig on to what they have. The mountains would be eisier to hold for the ethies, but their initial penetration would be much worse. This campaign would take a lot of planning and the great khan would have to be alive the entire time. Several factors that can not be wholy counted on but would effect the war would be: Desertion, plauge, and luck. Although the entire nation could not be taken, a direct strike could do a great deal of damage and take a great deal of territory however. I too welcome other thoughts. I think that both could take and hold land, winning a tactical victory whereas total victory for either side is impossible save for luck. Vale, - -Diego *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 15:19:46 EDT From: The Athar Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gun powder? In a message dated 98-04-21 11:21:30 EDT, Håvard_Rønne_Faanes wrote: << I'm not ready for gunpowder in AC1010. However I'm thinking that gunpowder should be getting common around AC1150. That means that we might soon see test models.. I think the Dwarves might already be experimenting with em. All this IMC (InMyCampaign) ofcourse. >> I am! I think the cultures that are in the "proper" time period should have them, such as (I know I keep using this nation, sorry) Darokin. Of course, like you said, I wouldn't be the surprised if the dwarves of Rockhome were experimenting with the substance, but if I was running a Mystara campaign I know for certain that countries like Darokin, Rockhome and Glantri would have at least 16th century muskets (or something like that). - - Technocrat *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 15:53:52 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) At 06:14 PM 4/21/98 +0100, you wrote: >(sigh). Look - Ethengar cannot beat Glantri militarily. Sure they can. If someone can >point out exactly how they can (I reckon subterfuge) I'm impressed. Reasons follow.... >Glantri is more advanced technologically (Renaissance vs Bronze Age - IRL there is just no way on that reason alone!) Rome was not Renaissance, but they were certainly more advanced than the Mongols. >Glantri has a greater population (600,000 compared to 330,000). So what? Lesser populations, smaller armies, have often won battles. >Glantri has a bigger raisable army (even allowing for Bronze Age cultures being able to sustain larger number of troops in the field, this is more than offset by the fact that Glantri has double the population...) Again, these things are not decided on numbers. Numbers are one factor. >Glantri has more money (what kind of economy have the Ethies got??? The Ethengarians use money...but I fail to see how this works for or against either side... OK - >horses. Glantri has magic - it is the only really magic heavy kingdom in the KW - it has a well developed merchants guild, good relations with Darokin, despite the Broken Lands etc. etc.). Money means mercenaries, training, bribes, good quality weapons, etc. etc. Ethengar has the almost certain support of Rockhome if Glantri enters the Steppes. >Glantri has magic. Ethengar doesn't. Ethengar may be able to scrape a few priests and shamans together. Not as many as Glantri can field mages (1 in 20 Glantrians is supposed to be a mage. Thus for parity (population again) Ethengar must field at least 1 in 10 priests. I dont think so... they aren't a theocracy like the Heldannics!). Clerics are not as good as mages in supporting armies anyway. Mages can be drafted - clerics might be against war (depending on how the Immortals view this little mosh). In general, when talking about pcs fighting monsters, you are right. Mages are superior to clerics in a 1-1 fight. But imagine if those shaman and priests of Ethengar start poisoning the Glantrian water and livestock. What if they start using their powers to cause Glantrian food to become diseased? >The Ethengars are fighting on unfamiliar terrain. If they attack through the mountains, it'll be Skullhorn Pass... and it will be a massacre. If they attack through Boldavia or Belcadiz, it'll mean going past a fortress(Monteleone or Tchernovodsk). Bronze Age siege technology vs Renaissance??? If they go for the Boldavia route I imagine a mysterious plague of vampirism will be visited upon the Ethengars, and Morphail will get a whole lot of new recruits into his army. As for unfamiliar terrain, it depends on who is attacking. I agree, either army is at a disadvantage in the other's country. With Rockhome aiding Ethengar, the mountains will not be a problem. As for mysterious plagues...The priestly magics of Ethengar are certainly more likely to be of help than the mage magics of Glantri. >Glantri probably has more allies than the Ethengars. Darokin is a peaceful nation, but they are merchants - as cold as gold, in my opinion. Darokin is very unlikely to enter any war unless they are directly threatened. Yes they are allies. But their strength is in economic and diplomatic matters. >Glantrian trade is a "nice little earner". Ethengars turning Glantri into a wasteland will not be good for the Darokinian economy. The DDC will probably try (and do a good job) of trying to broker a peace. This is true. >The Heldannic Territories - ok there is a bit of unrest here. This may seem to be bad for wars, but historically that is normally the time IRL that nations have gone to war - to unite the people behind a common enemy. Besides, they might get into Vanyas good books again if they do that. RRockhome - isolationist, they won't be any help ("Humph! get lost" They won't help Glantri. But they will almost certainly help the Ethengarians. >The Viking places? They'll be as eager to rape and pillage the Ethengars as they will be the Glantrians! More likely they'll be up for some Glantrian gold and serve as mercenaries. Depends on the country. Vestland is trying very hard to modernize. They are using Karameikos as a model. >So what have the Ethies actually got? They have only one card they can play - and thats exploit the internal conflicts that Glantri has. You forget the animosity between Rockhome and Glantri. Also there is a racial bond between the Ylaruamites and Ethengar. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 15:56:46 -0400 From: Daly Subject: [MYSTARA] - Best Modules!!! I agree with Geoff's sentiments below. This is a message forwarded from him to me. He is at work and does not have access to the MML. >Hello All! >I have bought Dragon #247, and, in addition to the article on Rakasta, I have the ballot for our vote to restore Mystara to her rightful place. >First, in reading the ballot, we can vote for up to FOUR modules, and not just one (I think this needs to be clear - some people were talking about choosing only one), and the deadline is July 31, 1998. >Now, the main part of this note to everyone: Since we can vote for up to four, why not synchronize our votes on the top four (instead of just one) - so we stand at chance of at least, maybe, getting one republished, but could, if we're lucky, get all four? >So, since we all seem to agree that B10 should be republished (I'd like one with all the playing pieces *g*), how about the other three? >I nominate X11 (Saga of the Shadowlord) as well, this is the module that provides the most canon info on Wendar and Denagoth, as well as being extremely well-written and consistent. Many people seem to be having trouble getting these, so I think we should choose this one, too. >Now, as for the other two, may I propose the following: >X1 (Isle of Dread) Classic jungle romp with dinos! All the more interesting now that Jurassic Park has become a household word. Also provides interesting scenarios for exploration, and fighting the decadent Kopru. Also, the fact that it takes place on an island chain means that DMs using other games could more easily insert it into their campaigns. This module could readily be the start of a campaign - extra info is provided for this. >And, for more selfish reasons: >B4 (The Lost City) Perhaps (apart from a couple measly paragraphs in WotI) the only official source on information concerning the Lost City of Cynidicea - a scenario that could be inserted readily in any campaign, in any place. It provides interesting details on the history of the city, the politics of the different factions, and a really cool ultra-villain - Zargon (players who fight this dude will never forget him, even if they want to....). IMO this module is rather hard to find, and the classic idea of a dungeon crawl, mixed with a bit of archaeology and "fighting ancient evils" would be a hit with players. Plus, there is ample scope to turn this adventure into a full-scale campaign (good info is provided on this), once the main adventure is over. I really like it, and I think others would, too, if they could get ahold of it. >Now, I've said my piece, but I REALLY think we should vote for B10 and X11 (I'm not budging on either of these) - those two modules have been acknowledged by many to be classics, and a must in anyone's adventure collection. The last two are my own preference, just to get the ball rolling. >I will not cast my vote just yet - I'll wait a few weeks to see what the consensus becomes. I just wanted to share the news that we could get up to four modules reprinted. This is probably the best chance we'll get to see any D&D material come out for quite a while (if at all), let's make our votes count!! The more unified we are, the better off we'll be. >A final note - I'm sorry if I came across as blunt or rude, this was not intended - I just see this as a golden opportunity to get what we want, and I think this is extremely important. >Thanks, >Geoff *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 15:59:42 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gun powder? << What that says to me is that the nations of the Savage Coast have a "monopoly" on this substance and would probably guard it fiercely...that being said however, the smoke-powder itself is really only prevalant in 2 of the Savage Baronies (Cimmaron County and Guadalante)...... So in a nutshell....Smoke-Powder is RARE and only found on the Savage Coast....and on the Savage Coast it is uncommon and only widely used in two of the Baronies.........but, who knows what may happen in different campaigns...... >> And due to its magical nature it might only work in the area of the Red Curse... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 15:59:37 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Another question about countries..=) << Can someone explain to me how all these completely different cultures with different technology levels exist so close to each other? How can a highly civilized Darokin exist next to a Dark Ages Broken Land, a barely-settled, Middle Ages Karameikos, and East of a Dark Ages Sind? >> It's fantasy, but it works... :-) Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 15:59:45 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: [MYSTARA] - Lesser Fiends << > I have for the first time run a group of adventurers up to a semi-high llevel. The party fighter defeated a Roaring Fiend in combat and I allowed him to claim the fiend's weapon's (in prelude to doing something nasty to the fighter). Well, this fiend's weapons are described as being of artifact power -- so look through the list of artifact adverse effects and pick whichever one you find most suitable. >> Has anybody noticed that the WotI Lesser Fiends are the old AD&D demons type 1 - 6 plus succubus (and even older D&D demons from the brown and white box), but are now much more flexible and more deadly than ever? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #233 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message.