mystara-digest Tuesday, April 21 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 234 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs Glantri ("Will this never end!" - C3P0) Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Best module and Mystaran uniqueness [MYSTARA] - Vanya in Alphatia [MYSTARA] - MystaranWriters [MYSTARA] - B10 Re: [MYSTARA] - Starting Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs Glantri ("Will this never end!" - C3P0) [MYSTARA] - To Diego [MYSTARA] - Just one more word...(couldnt resist) Re: [MYSTARA] - The Savage Coast Re: [MYSTARA] - Best Modules!!! [MYSTARA] - Mystara Books Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Best module and Mystaran uniqueness Re: [MYSTARA] - Best Modules!!! Re: [MYSTARA] - Best Modules!!! Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Books [MYSTARA] - Out of Print Mystara Stuff Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Books ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 15:59:46 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs Glantri ("Will this never end!" - C3P0) << > Disintegrate??? I believe Moglai Khan probably has a saving throw of aaround 2 against that spell... Glantrians that dumb deserve to become Dust in the Wind, dude. Characters (either PC or NPC) doesn't know about saving throws... >> Poor Glantrinian mages... :-) Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 20:42:12 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Best module and Mystaran uniqueness At 09.14 21/04/98 EST, Shawn Stanley wrote: >However for my money something like X11 Saga of the Shadowlord would be better because it is 1) a good module and 2) it details new parts of Mystara. 3) I don't have it, while I can easily buy the italian version of B10 at any RPG shop... :-) >Next, there's all the Shadow Elf stuff. Has anyone else noticed >Of course the problem with the 'Best module' dilemma is that a Shadow Elf module has yet to be printed yet - bugger! But what about this for an idea. [Fabrizio Shadow Elf dude extraordinarie, I hope you're reading this]. How about some people get together under your guidance and write a Shadow Elf adventure for inclusion in the good old Dungeon magazine? I like it. We can have the whole Net-Almanac Shadow Elf team (me, Herve, Thorfinn and Nicholas) involved plus whoever would like to join us. Just let us finish proofreading this cursed Almanac and we'll be ready to start... I also had to rewrite some Shadow Elves (now "shadowelves" for simplicity) events. >I don't know from where TSR found out that Shadow Elves are popular but from the web page and from mentions in, for example Planescape products, it seems that these guys have caught the imagination of some people out there. I think TSR said something like: "if Drow are so popular, why shouldn't Shadow Elves be too?" Hey, I'm not saying that Shadow Elves are Drow... I don't even know how Drow look like. >Details on the Nosferatu. Again I dunno why they ressurected this guy but again he _is_ a good idea. Maybe a nosferatu protagonist for our shadow elf buddies in the soon to be released Dungeon adventure... Nosferatu and shadowelves... odd, but interesting, mix.. Nosferatu->Boldavia->Glantri->Radiance->Shadow Elves... mmmh... >Send some more stuff to Dungeon and to Dragon. BTW: do you think it will be possible to have a review (even a short one) of some Net-Mystaran stuff (e.g. the Net-Almanac) in Dragon? >Suggest a new Odyessy Mystara specific release. See if TSR are still getting good comments. If they are ... >... then our plan for global domination is complete ... No, no wait - that isn't it. >Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering? I think so Brain but if these realms are so forgotten why does everyone seem to know so much about them? ROTFL >No , in a couple of years time we get the Mystara line re-established ... and then the world! - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:44:28 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: [MYSTARA] - Vanya in Alphatia The following is a message from DM, who is currently out of the MML because of e-mail problems. Alex Benson asked: >So what do yall think? Clerics of Vanya in Alphatia. How about Vanya being >revered under another name? Robert Fry answered: << Sounds good to me. Vanya (IMC, anyway) is well known for being one of the Immortals with Many Faces... But aside from this, many Immortals seem to have war as one of their interests. Ixion, Tarastia, Thor, Petra, Diulanna, Frey +Freya, Halav, and even Orcus could all be considered to be Immortals of warfare...>> And David Knott added: <> Hi all! Hope this gets thru.. If i may add my 2 passems to the discussion, i'd choose either Ixion or Valerias, and mainly for two reasons. First, Vanya is definitely The THYATIAN Immortal Guardian (she is the head of the thyatian pantheon, and she too did consider Thyatis as her favourite land, until the recent discussions with Thincol at least..) She was a Kerendan warrior princess in her own days, so when she became immortal she obviously became interested in her own folk, who ultimately founded the empire of Thyatis. And since Thyatis has always been fighting against Alphatia since the early days, i don't see how she could possibly support both factions.. Second, if Vanya really was the patron of Conquest and War in Alphatia, Thyatis and Heldann, can u explain me why she let Alphatia declare war on Glantri, knowing perfectly that Thyatis and Heldann would have taken part in the war against Alphatia? Yes, i know she likes war, but putting her three most powerful nations against each other is not a good strategy to further her goals and the cause of her Sphere: she was only helping spreading Entropy in this way. Also, remember that it was Ixion vs Rad that caused the war, so if Rad has Glantri, and the war was primarly Glantri vs Alphatia, who do u think is Alphatia's main deity of conquest? DM Check out my Mystara Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/ [updated EVERY month!] Join the Mystara Webring at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 19:14:33 -0300 From: edu@giga.com.ar Subject: [MYSTARA] - MystaranWriters I'm intrested. I don't know how do you want to do this but here in Argentina, there are a lot of people that play Role Games, and my friends and I we just made a D&D club. So I would be intrested in send you some ideas and participate. Thanks, Jonathan Leibiusky edu@giga.com.ar *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 19:14:29 -0300 From: edu@giga.com.ar Subject: [MYSTARA] - B10 I wonder if someone can send me a list of the available adventures of D&D. Is there any way to obtain them? (I'm from Argentina and here there are nothing for D&D). Thanks Jonathan Leibiusky edu@giga.com.ar *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 18:14:46 -0400 From: Ron Murphy Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Starting Mystara Your best bet is to try like hell to find one of the out of print Gazetteers (rec.arts.frp.marketplace is always a good place to start), or one of the Poor Wizard's Almanacs as a basic (and I mean basic) primer to Mystara. Karameikos and Glantri were published in AD&D format, but all the Gazetteers are easy to change over to AD&D. After you've picked up a few of the Gazetteers, get the Wrath of the Immortals set to get a good idea about how politics in Mystara work (i.e. the timeline of the war(s)). Once I got a few of the old Mystara products and read them, I was hooked and I've been trying to find everything I can get my hands on... Ron Andy.P.Smith@marks-and-spencer.com wrote: >My tale is full of woe. A long, long time ago I ran First Quest, followed by Karameikos. >The players were all very new to rpgs (FQ was a wonderful introduction) and a good time was had by all. Unfortunately a fellow player decided to DM and, unable to realistically stop him, he purchased the Karameikos boxed set and screwed the whole setting up. So, I moved onto Realms, which I TRIED like hell to bond with, but failed. >My question is this:- I have been away from the Mystara materials for about 2-3 years. What is available now for purchase in terms of modules and so on. . . I have seen a D&D boxed set which looks similar to FQ, but I didn't get the shrinkwrap off in time to look . >Comments please. . . >Nemesis >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:50:55 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs Glantri ("Will this never end!" - C3P0) - -> Characters (either PC or NPC) doesn't know about saving throws... >> Fair enough - but I'm sure most mages have worked out that disintegrate isnt very effective against people... considering at least half the time they cast it it doesnt work... a bit like polymorph other really! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 23:01:36 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: [MYSTARA] - To Diego I'm impressed! I agree with pretty well everything you said. Especially the part about Luck. But it seemed that no one was really fighting Glantri's corner - the Khan is doing too good a PR job... :) ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 23:22:46 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Just one more word...(couldnt resist) To all who answered the last argument... I'm impressed! But I have to say - if I had to bet on a side, it'd be Glantri. As to answering a couple of points - I agree, numbers aren't everything - they are just one factor. If you think about it, with magic Glantri is probably approaching 19th or even 20th century equivalent, based upon magic rather than technology. (Look at Alphatia for a better example - if Alphatia used technology rather than magic they would have aircraft, the Apollo Program, communications technology, artificial intelligence, warp drive, fantastic engineering (1200 mile deep mines!) etc. etc. This sort of disparity combined with numbers would mean Victory. It would be like the British troops fighting the Zulus in the 19th century. And the British were outnumbered massively - a military force has probably never stood against such odds(tiny Brit garrison force versus half of Africa). But the British had rifles, and the Zulus had spears. The British even had abysmal tactics compared to the Zulus and were badly led (they lost one fight because the ammunition boxes were sealed up so tightly that the troops couldnt get the lids off when the Zulus attacked... :). Except continuing the analogy, this means the Brits would outnumber the Zulus 2 to 1... And the Glantrians are well led. Concerning a bit of foreign policy. I think that IRL trade has been a major reason for wars starting (or not starting). I think Darokin's involvement in all this is underestimated - they would be almost certainly wanting peace - and I think they they could well go to great lengths to get it. That is what the DDC is for, after all. If Darokin wasn't such a friendly, law abiding and generally nice place, I would even say that if they thought a war was brewing they could try and knock off the Khan. Look at America - nice, friendly country, economic rather than military power. American foreign policy has included some pretty questionable acts historically, to maintain their world markets. In D+D terms, I think that it could make a good adventure - the PCs being hired by the DDC to help defuse the situation. The possibilities for that are endless. And I reckon the Heldannic Territories would be up for attacking Ethengar. They are opportunists - and they almost suffered when fighting Ethies in WotI. They'll be itching for some payback. At the very least, the Khan would have to divide his forces to cover his Heldannic borders, just in case. And that would weaken his assault. I think that these sort of arguments could be used for any country in the KW - which is why it is relatively stable. It's a situation of Balance of Power - no single country can get an advantage over the others. Thats the reason I like Mystara the most out of all campaign worlds - its realistic in that sense. :-) This is like arguing about politics IRL! I guess we could all argue forever and a day - the issue is very close, and not clearcut. Lady Luck rules the roost on this one... ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 17:33:16 -0500 From: Scott and Juliette Karjala Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Savage Coast My friend and I ran a pretty extensive campaign in Red Steele and had pretty good success. We started everyone at 1st level and basically centered it around the Druids. Went pretty well. Althoough we were a little concerned with the ability to purchase a type of firearm, we made sure that nothing was easy when it came to the weapon. One guy even went so far as to improve on it and I had him study design, engineering prinnciples etc.. so he wouldn't have a weapon able to basically blast away anything that came near. Serra Angel Robert Fry wrote: >>Plus does anybody run a Savage Coast campaign. I recently re-read all the material and I have written a campaign in which Hule invades the Savage Baronies. >Yes!!! Me!!!! Sounds similar - I had Vilaverde on the receiving end of some Hulean violence. But be warned - Red Steel can afflict players... Most of my latest PCs in my friends games have been killed/maimed as the result of trying to do flash, swashbucklering acts in other campaigns... (the duel with Harkon Lukas in Ravenloft springs to mind... as does the incident involving the drow high priestess)... >Ah well - it's a laugh, innit? >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 15:44:03 -0700 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Best Modules!!! Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:00:18 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #234 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com At 03:56 PM 4/21/98 -0400, Geoff (via Daly) wrote: FFFirst, in reading the ballot, we can vote for up to FOUR modules, and not just one (I think this needs to be clear - some people were talking about choosing only one), and the deadline is July 31, 1998. >>Now, the main part of this note to everyone: Since we can vote for up to four, why not synchronize our votes on the top four (instead of just one) - so we stand at chance of at least, maybe, getting one republished, but could, if we're lucky, get all four? [...] First, I've been keeping silent mostly because I don't actually own very many modules of my own so I sort of felt I had very little to contribute. Second, I just wanted to say that, if some kind of list concensus can be reached in the next week or so, I would be totally happy to not only vote for the recommended four, but pass on information about our discussion and descion to those friends of mine who love Mystara but do not participate in the MML. With that said, I would like to begin by saying that, although I am essentially unfamiliar with the real B10, there have been enough description comments about it to convince me that it is a good option to go with as one of the four. As for the others (such as X11) -- I'd really like to hear some good descriptions of what the basic plots are and where these Modules are nominally located. This would certainly help those of us who don't own and/or have never seen those modules determine whether they, too, are in the 'top four' Mystara modules. Something a bit more detailed than just "Classic jungle romp with dinos!" would be preferable (No offense meant, Geoff) -- Yeah, I know X1 has Dinosaurs, but what are the PC's being sent to do or find? Other useful information would be: * how is module Y a good introdution to Mystara? * what makes module Y a good candidate for reprinting? * would it be easy to convert module Y to another campaign world? * etc. I know what I currently have, and I don't know if I'd put any of them in the 'top four' anything, let alone 'top four' mystara... I only own "In Search of the Unknown" (B1), "Legions of Thyatis" (D2?), "Test of the War Lords" (CM1), and "Skarda's Mirror" (??). I also have a 'borrowed' copy of "Quagmire" (X?). The only other's I've been exposed to (generally as a PC, so otherwise know very little about the overall 'worth') include "The Veiled Society", "Queen's Harvest" and "The Isle of Dread". Finally, I wanted to ask if someone could present a case for whichever module is the one involving the Black Eagle Barony and the 'infamous' Bargle. There's been a fair bit about that module on the list over time, and wonder if it would 'qualify' for 'top four'. That's all for now, Jenni PS: Hey -- I have a question for someone in the know: When they say 'pick four modules' do they specify whether you must only select a single module for each pick, or if modules which form a more-or-less continuous story can be voted for collectively (for example, voting for all four DA modules as one 'vote'). Just curious. --JAMM - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield http://www.jamm.com/jenni/home.html - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- strawberry@jamm.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 17:49:15 -0500 From: Scott and Juliette Karjala Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Books Has anyone read the Mystara Books? Dragon Cleric, Dragon Mage, and Dragon King? I really enjoyed them. Anyone else? Serra Angel *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 09:57:07 EST From: "Shawn Stanley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Best module and Mystaran uniqueness At Tue, 21 Apr 1998 09:36:06 +0000 (GMT) Gordon McCormick >It seems that B10 is certainly a popular choice - and of course to have any D&D module reprinted a unified front is what we would have to show. But Karameikos ... ewwww yucky. Nevertheless united we stand yadda yadda. >Well, Karameikos is the starting point for the known world, first gazeteer, first modules, and many, many people who cursed Bargle for killing Aleena...also I'd like to read it now after reading all the comments about it! Yeah, but there's a lot more to Mystara than a basically generic country that could fit into any campaign world at all - I think that's one of the reasons I've always been a bit down on Karameikos, it has about as much uniqueness as an Abba revival group. >>However for my money something like X11 Saga of the Shadowlord would be better because it is 1) a good module and 2) it details new parts of Mystara. >It's good, but I've already got it :) :) Also, as Vinny said, setting it in one of the countries that there's still information about would prehaps raise awareness and all that jazz. I don't think that not voting for a module just because you have it is a valid argument. I chose X11 over other modules including B10 because I have both and made a considered decision. If I were to choose a module just because I didn't have it and which seemed to be good either from what other people have said or from what they got out of it I would have picked M3 - Twilight Calling, I mean for a module to cause all the Carnifex and subsequent Lhomarrian writings from such luminaries as Mystaros and Geoff Gander, heck the module must have some merit. >>Create a short adventure with >>them and maybe one of the other _big_ Mystaran unique identities and if it's printed in Dungeon then we're well on our way to that thing that we all want to see - Mystara back on the TSR frontburner. >Shadow elves would make a great adventure plot, especially if it involved the Radiance Mk II somehow...plus links to the Hollow World (lost Azcan's) and Glantri/Darokin/Alfheim...lots going for it... Well as an initial idea I percieved something along the KISS line of reasoning, keep-it-simple-stupid. Don't go for any huge storylines and also don't incorporate any recent net-generated events for our pale friends. Keep it all as close to published material as possible with perhaps a hint of something bigger to come. I mean we would want to get this thing published so it may not be best to have a Shadow Elf adventure taking part in the now net-risen Aengmor with the population of Wendar knocking on their door and Rafiel's plans almost at fruition (or whatever the current plans are). However a shadow elf adventure with a bit more of an exploratory angle, perhaps following young shadow elf adventurers as they wander around the surface and meet up with some Mystara specific people on the ground, for example a retinue of DDC guys on some business or other. >>Get DA1-4 reprinted. >Umn, I've never seen DA1-4 but although they are Mystara oriented, they're not really Known World oriented which for my money is the best bit of Mystara...(KW inc Alphatia btw :) ) By perpetuating the distinction between Known World, Savage Coast, ancient Blackmoor and the rest of it I think we'll hurt ourselves more than we're helping ourselves. >>Suggest a new Odyessy Mystara specific release. >What is that? A TSR line designed, I believe, to give one off non-campaign related products and one-off discontinued campaign releases. The trouble is that things *never* get better, they just stay the same, only more so. - Terry Pratchett, Eric stan http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 20:07:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Best Modules!!! >>I nominate X11 (Saga of the Shadowlord) as well, this is the module that I don't have this module, but wouldn't mind seeing it reprinted just so I can get it :). >>Now, as for the other two, may I propose the following: >>X1 (Isle of Dread) Classic jungle romp with dinos! All the more I don't agree on this one, this is probably one of the most common used modules floating around, and most people can probably still obtain it without too much problem. I would suggest B1-9. It is not linked together that great, but it contain major parts of the nine modules, and would save people time and money trying to track all of them down. The original has sort of become a collector's item, so some non-mystarian crowd might vote for that too. And I think whatever modules we vote for, we should probably keep them low level ones. As higher level modules became more game system depended, and I doubt TSR would print any modules that will not appeal to the AD&D players. Not to disappoint anyone, but here is my guess on what will be the top 4 modules voted: Temple of Elemental Evil, Bloodstone series, GDQ series, and Ravenloft. Thats some pretty tough competation for us. - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | UVa, Material Science Dept. |"Earth is too small and fragile a basket IPM Lab | for Mankind to keep all his eggs in." (804) 984-3789 | -- Robert Anson Heinlein *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 21:20:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Best Modules!!! At 03:44 PM 4/21/98 -0700, you wrote: >As for the others (such as X11) -- I'd really like to hear some good descriptions of what the basic plots are and where these Modules are nominally located. This would certainly help those of us who don't own and/or have never seen those modules determine whether they, too, are in the 'top four' Mystara modules. Something a bit more detailed than just "Classic jungle romp with dinos!" would be preferable (No offense meant, Geoff) -- Yeah, I know X1 has Dinosaurs, but what are the PC's being sent to do or find? Other useful information would be: X11 takes place north of Glantri, introducing the nations of Wendar and Denagoth. The PCs are hired by the King of Wendar to recover a national artifact that the ruler of Denagoth has started. Lots of fun. X1, Isle of Dread, takes place in the Thaneigoth Archipelago, south of the Known World. The adventure itself is pretty good, basically an 'explore the whole island and find a valuable pearl'. But the biggest thing about it is that it was the adventure that had the first map of the Known World in it. What better way to introduce Mystara to the heathens than by showing them the map? :-) >I know what I currently have, and I don't know if I'd put any of them in the 'top four' anything, let alone 'top four' mystara... I only own "In Search of the Unknown" (B1), "Legions of Thyatis" (D2?), "Test of the War Lords" (CM1), and "Skarda's Mirror" (??). I also have a 'borrowed' copy of "Quagmire" (X?). The only other's I've been exposed to (generally as a PC, so otherwise know very little about the overall 'worth') include "The Veiled Society", "Queen's Harvest" and "The Isle of Dread". Quagmire is one the very few D&D products I'm missing. I'd love to get a copy of that somewhere. >Finally, I wanted to ask if someone could present a case for whichever module is the one involving the Black Eagle Barony and the 'infamous' Bargle. There's been a fair bit about that module on the list over time, and wonder if it would 'qualify' for 'top four'. There is no specific module that deals with the Black Eagle Barony and Bargle. Bargle was introduced in the fourth-edition Basic boxed set (I think it was the 4th). The Black Eagle baron was mentioned in the original Expert set, but Bargle and he weren't linked as a team until the Karameikos gazetteer. Originally, Bargle was just some evil mage who the total beginning player (solo adventure) encounters. Later he developed into the nasty we all hate. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 21:24:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Books At 05:49 PM 4/21/98 -0500, you wrote: >Has anyone read the Mystara Books? Dragon Cleric, Dragon Mage, and Dragon King? I really enjoyed them. Anyone else? >Serra Angel Oh, here we go again... The Dragonlord Trilogy has been discussed at least twice that I'm aware of. I personally didn't think too much of it; I only got to the third book because I am a native-born Mystaran :-) The first book was both slow and uninteresting; I honestly didn't care if Thelvyn lived or died. The second book was a little better, but not too much; Thelvyn was still as interesting as watching paint dry. The third book finally went somewhere, although it revises the origin of one of the Immortals of Mystara. At least they were relevant to Mystaran history, but I find it interesting that these earth-shaking events aren't in any Mystaran timeline I've seen. Unless they're in the Glantri boxed set, which I don't have. I just don't like Gunnarson's style. I'd much rather see some Mystaran books set in the Gazetteer or WotI eras, rather than five hundred or so years earlier. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 19:42:41 -0600 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Out of Print Mystara Stuff Mystarans, I have seen a couple of posts asking about Mystara stuff and how to get it. Your in luck, because the MML homepage has a whole sction on links to places that carry Mystara stuff, and some of them have very impressive selections, at decent prices. One place even has a bunch of Gazetteers in shrinkwrap. The Mystara Mailing List Homepage can be found at... http://www.lesbois.com/members/malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com ICQ #4253672 "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:03:04 -0400 From: Amaldis@concentric.net Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Books <> That's because the Mystara product line had been cancelled by the time the last book was published. <> This was a decision by the management at TSR that he would write books set in the "Dark Ages" of Mystara. It was also planned that he would eventually write another trilogy set 200 years after the Gazeteer time. Personally, I disliked the first book intensely, but the second book was decent, and the third book was incredible. BTW, as far as TSR is concerned, these books are canon(they even specifically told him his ideas on elves were so good that they would incorporate them into future products). Sure, according to previous canon the Great One isn't the first Immortal dragon, but I let that, and Alphatia being such a wuss, slide as being merely exaggerations on Thevlyn's part. - -Amaldis *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #234 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 10:53:40 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #235 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Wednesday, April 22 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 235 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Re: Best Modules!!! Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) Re: [MYSTARA] - Lesser Fiends Re: [MYSTARA] - Another question about countries..=) Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Books Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs Glantri ("Will this never end!" - C3P0) Re: [MYSTARA] - Speculation re Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Another question about countries..=) Re: [MYSTARA] - Corran Keep Re: [MYSTARA] - Best Modules!!! Re: Re: Re[4]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gun powder? Re: [MYSTARA] - To Diego Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Best Modules!!! [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Books Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) [MYSTARA] - WoTI Lightning Zombies Re: [MYSTARA] - Speculation re Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 21 Apr 1998 21:13:45 -0500 From: Alan Shutko Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Best Modules!!! >>>>>"S" == Shin Chyang Yu writes: S> Not to disappoint anyone, but here is my guess on what will be the S> top 4 modules voted: Temple of Elemental Evil, Bloodstone series, S> GDQ series, and Ravenloft. Thats some pretty tough competation for S> us. I don't have my copy of the ballot anymore, but I'm quite sure that ToEE isn't on there (having looked) and I don't think GDQ is either, since it also had a series revival, iirc. - -- Alan Shutko - By consent of the corrupted Skiers go down fast. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:43:13 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) >maybe not beat, but they can take a great deal of land before being called to the table so to speak. A great deal of land? Where is it that you're talking about? >True, and Rome out numbered the Barbarians. But... RRome had only about a ratio of 400:1 or 500:1 (people to warriors in the armed forces) and The barbarians were able to field about 44-1 to 5-1 warriors in tribal force. Not to say that this is exactly the same but the ethies will have more people immedietly, and better unit cohesion. Therefore in the innitial strike the Ethies wil have an advantage. I disagree. Rome and Glantri is a bad analogy. Rome had centuries of peace. Meaning low-no battle experience for those who would defend the country. Glantri has had much more experience in major warfare than Ethengar has. They are much more battle ready and especially when on the defensive. They successfully defended Glantri City against the bombarding spells of one thousand Alphatian mages. I don't really think the Ethengars can pose close to as much of a threat. >Not necessarily as in above and later arguments. Also, in an offensive strike the massed army of Glantri will not all be in one place at the same time. Are you saying that the Khan will put his whole army in one force and charge into Glantri? Of course Glantri will not be all in the same place at the same time. To fight like that would be idiotic. >In addition, the Humanoids will be attacking both forces. But if the Ethies plan right they will be able to make the Glantrians look much more appealing. Why exactly would the Humanoids decide to invade both Ethengar and Glantri? - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:48:27 EDT From: Mystaros Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Lesser Fiends In a message dated 98-04-21 16:22:33 EDT, you write: << Has anybody noticed that the WotI Lesser Fiends are the old AD&D demons type 1 - 6 plus succubus (and even older D&D demons from the brown and white box), but are now much more flexible and more deadly than ever? Jamuga Khan>> And how! The new Planescape MC is full of stuff to use in an AD&D version of Mystara, even if you throw out the Planescape Multiverse and use the Mystaran OD&D Multiverse (like I do). The paraelementals and quasielementals are perfect for use in OD&D version Outer Planes, or for that matter as denizens of the OD&D version of the Elemental Planes... Mystaros *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:49:07 -0400 From: robertn Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Another question about countries..=) Kaviyd wrote: >In a message dated 98-04-20 18:53:26 EDT, TheAthar@aol.com writes: >>Can someone explain to me how all these completely different cultures with dddifferent technology levels exist so close to each other? How can a highly civilized Darokin exist next to a Dark Ages Broken Land, a barely-settled, Middle Ages Karameikos, and East of a Dark Ages Sind? >I suspect that the technological differences are economic in origin. Darokin seems to be highly civilized because it is so wealthy -- but you will notice that for the most part all of these nations use similar weapons and armor with similar stats. >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. unsubscribe mystara-1 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:58:03 -0400 From: robertn Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) Inconu wrote: >>maybe not beat, but they can take a great deal of land before being called to the table so to speak. >A great deal of land? Where is it that you're talking about? >>True, and Rome out numbered the Barbarians. But... RRRome had only about a ratio of 400:1 or 500:1 (people to warriors in the armed forces) and The barbarians were able to field about 444-1 to 5-1 warriors in tribal force. Not to say that this is exactly the same but the ethies will have more people immedietly, and better unit cohesion. Therefore in the innitial strike the Ethies wil have an advantage. >I disagree. Rome and Glantri is a bad analogy. Rome had centuries of peace. Meaning low-no battle experience for those who would defend the country. Glantri has had much more experience in major warfare than Ethengar has. They are much more battle ready and especially when on the defensive. They successfully defended Glantri City against the bombarding spells of one thousand Alphatian mages. I don't really think the Ethengars can pose close to as much of a threat. >>Not necessarily as in above and later arguments. Also, in an offensive strike the massed army of Glantri will not all be in one place at the same time. >Are you saying that the Khan will put his whole army in one force and charge into Glantri? Of course Glantri will not be all in the same place at the same time. To fight like that would be idiotic. >>In addition, the Humanoids will be attacking both forces. But if the Ethies plan right they will be able to make the Glantrians look much more appealing. >Why exactly would the Humanoids decide to invade both Ethengar and Glantri? >-Inconu >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. 'unsubscribe mystara-1 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 23:07:13 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) >Rome was not Renaissance, but they were certainly more advanced than the Mongols. And how is Glantri anything like Rome was? Or Ethengar like the Mongals for that matter. >So what? Lesser populations, smaller armies, have often won battles. Going by that argument, the Five Shires or Karameikos could take over the Known World. Sure, it's possible, but what really are the chances. We're talking about 2-1 odds and a magic infested country here. >>Glantri has a bigger raisable army (even allowing for Bronze Age cultures being able to sustain larger number of troops in the field, this is >>more than offset by the fact that Glantri has double the population...) >Again, these things are not decided on numbers. Numbers are one factor. Numbers are a big factor in war. It is only one factor, but it's another strike against Ethengar. >In general, when talking about pcs fighting monsters, you are right. Mages are superior to clerics in a 1-1 fight. But imagine if those shaman and priests of Ethengar start poisoning the Glantrian water and livestock. What if they start using their powers to cause Glantrian food to become diseased? I really doubt that these clerics would be able to get into Glantri and perform this, but even if a few did.....how much of an effect do you really this would have on the whole country? And if hundreds of mages threw off fireballs in the direction of the on-coming Ethengarians they could replenish thier food supply. Okay...bad joke, but the point is that Glantri has so many mages that are trained for war that Ethengar would never stand a chance against em. >As for unfamiliar terrain, it depends on who is attacking. I agree, either army is at a disadvantage in the other's country. With Rockhome aiding Ethengar, the mountains will not be a problem. Why would you think Rockhome would help out Ethengar? >As for mysterious plagues...The priestly magics of Ethengar are certainly more likely to be of help than the mage magics of Glantri. The preistly magics of Ethengar could do no such thing. How many clerics do you think are in Ethengar? and how many of them are capable of constructing a plague to infest Glantri? >Darokin is very unlikely to enter any war unless they are directly threatened. Yes they are allies. But their strength is in economic and diplomatic matters. i agree. Darokin wouldn't enter a war like this. >>Glantrian trade is a "nice little earner". Ethengars turning Glantri into a >>wasteland will not be good for the Darokinian economy. The DDC will probably try (and do a good job) of trying to broker a peace. >This is true. i dont agree. Darokin has never interfered in the past during these wars, and i don't see why they would start now. >>Rockhome - isolationist, they won't be any help ("Humph! get lost" >They won't help Glantri. But they will almost certainly help the Ethengarians. why would you think this? - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:45:07 -0500 From: Scott and Juliette Karjala Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Books Glen Sprigg wrote: >At 05:49 PM 4/21/98 -0500, you wrote: >>Has anyone read the Mystara Books? Dragon Cleric, Dragon Mage, and Dragon King? I really enjoyed them. Anyone else? >>Serra Angel >Oh, here we go again... >The Dragonlord Trilogy has been discussed at least twice that I'm aware of. I'm sorry if it was brought up before but I am new here and didn't realize this topic was already old news. >I personally didn't think too much of it; I only got to the third book because I am a native-born Mystaran :-) The first book was both slow and uninteresting; I honestly didn't care if Thelvyn lived or died. The second book was a little better, but not too much; Thelvyn was still as interesting as watching paint dry. The third book finally went somewhere, although it revises the origin of one of the Immortals of Mystara. At least they were relevant to Mystaran history, but I find it interesting that these earth-shaking events aren't in any Mystaran timeline I've seen. Unless they're in the Glantri boxed set, which I don't have. I have the Glantri boxed set and they don't really mention anything there either. I enjoyed them immensly and I would read them again. I wish there was more. >I just don't like Gunnarson's style. I'd much rather see some Mystaran books set in the Gazetteer or WotI eras, rather than five hundred or so years earlier. I am not familiar with "Gazetteer" or "WotI" either. Can you explain to a rookie gamer (3 yrs.) what these are? >Glen >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 00:15:47 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs Glantri ("Will this never end!" - C3P0) In a message dated 98-04-21 04:56:07 EDT, brizio@lunet.it writes: >Characters (either PC or NPC) doesn't know about saving throws... They don't know about numeric values -- but they do know that obviously powerful types are more resistant to "all or nothing" spells and that casting such spells on powerful types is usually a waste of a spell. Now while it is true that there is no difference in physical appearance between high and low level humans, the level of a known NPC (such as Moglai Khan) can be estimated from his reputation. As the leader of a nation of fierce warriors, he would logically be a great warrior himself -- and any Mage who is trying to take him out would assume that he is highly resistant to magic and select his spells accordingly. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 00:15:53 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Speculation re Immortals In a message dated 98-04-21 08:14:48 EDT, jdaly@friend.ly.net writes: >My Paladin of Torm can go just about anywhere along the Sword Coast and ffind a temple. I was actually referring to somewhat larger regions. How many temples of Torm are there in Maztica, Kara-Tur, or Zakhara? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 00:15:56 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Another question about countries..=) In a message dated 98-04-21 08:19:18 EDT, jdaly@friend.ly.net writes: >Actually they don't...unless the operative word is "similar". They are certainly similar in composition -- all nations except possibly the Broken Lands have ready access to high quality steel weapons that seldom break in combat. The differences in military equipment seem to be more a matter of cultural preferences than of different levels of Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 10:53:40 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #235 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com technological advancement. Of course, just because a nation knows how to make something does not mean that they can afford to do so -- which is why I suggested that most of the differences in equipment quality are of economic origin. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 00:15:52 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Corran Keep Prior to the war, Corran Keep would definitely have been on the Darokin side of the border with Glantri. However, when it was destroyed by the meteor, the site formerly occupied by Corran Keep would be part of the expanded Broken Lands and eventually would become part of the Glantrian Principality of New Kolland. But this change is only relevant if the ruins of Corran Keep are shown on a post-Wrath map. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 00:15:59 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Best Modules!!! By the way, what is the definition of a "module"? Is it limited to paperbound products the size of magazines, or could a boxed set qualify if it forms a single adventure? If the latter is not precluded, then _Mark of Amber_ would be a good candidate (although I would probably vote for module X2 instead, as it forms an earlier part of the same story line). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 00:52:47 EDT From: BoBo II Subject: Re: Re: Re[4]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World In a message dated 4/21/98 11:21:29 AM, you wrote: < Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gun powder? I would argue that the magician/nobles of glantri would see gunpowder as a direct threat to their power. Stamp it out like those nasty clerics. . . *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 01:20:44 EDT From: BoBo II Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - To Diego In a message dated 4/21/98 5:42:06 PM, you wrote: << I agree with pretty well everything you said. Especially the part about Luck. But it seemed that no one was really fighting Glantri's corner - the Khan is doing too good a PR job... Sorry, I still have visions of Basra dancing in my head. Steppe = tarket practice. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 01:28:40 EDT From: BoBo II Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) In a message dated 4/21/98 10:29:45 PM, you wrote: <> 1.Gaz's postulate animosity between Glan. +Dwarves over the magic resistance/experimentation issue. 2.Khan has some personal ties to Rockhome. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 01:34:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Best Modules!!! Alan Shutko pontificated: >I don't have my copy of the ballot anymore, but I'm quite sure that ToEE isn't on there (having looked) and I don't think GDQ is either, since it also had a series revival, iirc. Oh, so it is a multiple choice? Are all the modules we discussed list on the ballot? Interesting that those two are not on there, TSR might already have something in plan for them. - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | UVa, Material Science Dept. |"Earth is too small and fragile a basket IPM Lab | for Mankind to keep all his eggs in." (804) 984-3789 | -- Robert Anson Heinlein *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 05:32:13 EDT From: Ambreville Subject: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File Hi folks! Couple of things I wanted to bring up. The Dragon magazine article on Mystaran rakasta is out on the shelves, finally. Although I haven't yet received my author copies, I'd like to start building an errata file. I'll be glad to pick up your comments from the MML, the Mystara board on the TSR site, or personal e-mail to me. I'm looking for problems with game mechanics and rules if any. (Thanks). The other issue is that the Mystaran board on the TSR site is doing well. So far we've managed to outpace all the other message boards there. Naturally, every bit of help will help maintaining the activity there, as well as here. If anyone has the desire to help and the patience to put up with TSR's [[offensive comment muted by the author]] slow message board, you are welcome to jump in. The idea is of course to catch TSR's attention with high interest on the Mystara board. I see that Rob Wiese from RPGA hasn't posted a message on the MML yet. (Has he?) I guess I'll call him again and find out what the holdup is. (Leroy? Any news on your side?) Sorry about the delay. Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 07:06:52 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) << <> >1.Gaz's postulate animosity between Glan. +Dwarves over the magic resistance/experimentation issue. I don't think that Rockhome would really assist Ethengar because of this reason. Rockhome seems to be a country that would only fight against Glantri if the odds were quite favorable to themselves. This is not the case here and just because the countries have past problems is hardly a reason to go to war....i would think. >2.Khan has some personal ties to Rockhome. >> What kind of ties? I had no idea that those two countries had good relations. I don't remember reading anything about personal ties however. Could you give a reference as to where you read this? - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 08:31:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Books At 10:45 PM 4/21/98 -0500, you wrote: >I'm sorry if it was brought up before but I am new here and didn't realize this topic was already old news. That's okay; it's always fun to rehash old topics. Besides, since you're new, it's not old for you. >I have the Glantri boxed set and they don't really mention anything there either. I enjoyed them immensly and I would read them again. I wish there was more. Well, we'll have to jump up and down on TSR's collective head to get them to start Mystara up again, won't we? :-) Then we'll get some more books set in our beloved land. >>I just don't like Gunnarson's style. I'd much rather see some Mystaran books set in the Gazetteer or WotI eras, rather than five hundred or so years earlier. >I am not familiar with "Gazetteer" or "WotI" either. Can you explain to a rookie >gamer (3 yrs.) what these are? Wow! Major new person! Okay, the Gazetteers are a series of products created for the old original D&D system. Each one described in detail one nation of the D&D Known World. If you've ever seen the old X! adventure, Isle of Dread, there's a map in the middle of it of a whole bunch of countries. Those are the ones we're talking about. Also, look at the inside covers of the Dragonlord Trilogy; the nations aren't all there, and some of them aren't yet in their current form, but Darokin, Rockhome, Alfheim, etc. are all described in Gazetteers. "WotI" is the list-short form for "Wrath of the Immortals", a boxed set for the D&D system that both described many of the Immortals (gods) of Mystara, and describes a major campaign adventure that encompasses a huge war that reshapes Mystara. Continents sink (well, one does), forests are destroyed, major stuff. It could be described as Mystara's Great War. Lots of fun. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 08:47:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) At 07:06 AM 4/22/98 EDT, you wrote: >I don't think that Rockhome would really assist Ethengar because of this reason. Rockhome seems to be a country that would only fight against Glantri if the odds were quite favorable to themselves. This is not the case here and just because the countries have past problems is hardly a reason to go to war....i would think. The dwarves REALLY hate Glantri. We're talking hate on a religious scale. If Ethengar invited them to beat the living snot out of a few thousand Glantrians, the dwarves would be unable to help because they'd all get stuck trying to get through the door at the same time. The Shires, for that matter, might even join in. They love Glantri as much as the dwarves do. >What kind of ties? I had no idea that those two countries had good relations. I don't remember reading anything about personal ties however. Could you give a reference as to where you read this? His best friend is a Rockhome dwarf. He spent a few years there after meeting up with a dwarf in a fight. He learned a lot about engineering and such, and the dwarf whom he befriended is a close adviser in the Golden Court. This is in Moglai Khan's background in the GAZ12. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 08:55:15 -0500 From: "Cecil Cosman" Subject: [MYSTARA] - WoTI Lightning Zombies I was rereading the WoTI stuff last night and I read something interesting about the lightning zombies. It says that they could be capapble of level advancment. I was wondering if anyone had done anything with them. I mean the entire 'race' of zombies isn't very numerous. with just those people that had died in the presence of the shield being animated but they are intelligent undead and they don't look terribly bad so... anyone done anything with em? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 10:04:54 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Speculation re Immortals But my original statement referred to national boundaries, not continental. At 12:15 AM 4/22/98 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 98-04-21 08:14:48 EDT, jdaly@friend.ly.net writes: >>My Paladin of Torm can go just about anywhere along the Sword Coast and fffind a temple. >I was actually referring to somewhat larger regions. How many temples of Torm are there in Maztica, Kara-Tur, or Zakhara? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 10:12:44 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) At 07:06 AM 4/22/98 EDT, you wrote: ><< <> >>1.Gaz's postulate animosity between Glan. +Dwarves over the magic resistance/experimentation issue. >I don't think that Rockhome would really assist Ethengar because of this reason. Rockhome seems to be a country that would only fight against Glantri if the odds were quite favorable to themselves. This is not the case here and just because the countries have past problems is hardly a reason to go to war....i would think. I see it as very likely, and a deterrent to Glantri, that if Glantri attacked the Steppes the dwarves would side with Ethengar. Ethengar is a country that borders both Rockhome and Glantri. The dwarves would see an attack on Ethengar by the Glantrians, as an openly hostile move toward themselves. >>2.Khan has some personal ties to Rockhome. >> >What kind of ties? I had no idea that those two countries had good relations. I don't remember reading anything about personal ties however. Could you give a reference as to where you read this? If you take a look at the modifiers given in X10 "Red Arrow Black Shield" you will see the tendency of Rockhome to side with Ethengar. This coupled with their long memories and animosity toward Glantri indicates to me a likelihood of siding with Ethengar. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 10:50:35 EDT From: CRlPTONITE Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) << The dwarves REALLY hate Glantri. We're talking hate on a religious scale. If Ethengar invited them to beat the living snot out of a few thousand Glantrians, the dwarves would be unable to help because they'd all get stuck trying to get through the door at the same time. >> You are treating the Rockhome Dwarves as mindless beings. They may not like Glantri, but they are not going to jump into a war just to be against them. Dwarves are intelligent and very concerned about their own survival. As a nation they will not participate in an action that may decimate them (remember what they did in WotI?). Plus, the #1 power of the Known World, Alphatia, was obliterated by Glantri. The whole country SUNK! Glantri had all kinds of enemies during WotI and they were not defeated. Ethengar will not beat them. Rockhome & Ethengar will not beat them. And any country led by an intelligent ruling faction will not even consider attacking the current "most powerful country in the KW," at this time. - --- -- --Criptonite *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #235 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 15:23:33 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #236 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Wednesday, April 22 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 236 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gun powder? Re: [MYSTARA] - Best module Re: [MYSTARA] - Best module Re: [MYSTARA] - WoTI Lightning Zombies [MYSTARA] - Re: Re: Best Modules!!! Re: [MYSTARA] - Another question about countries..=) Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) Re: [MYSTARA] - Corran Keep Re: [MYSTARA] - Gun powder? Re: [MYSTARA] - Gun powder? [MYSTARA] - Dark elves, Tylion, and Tylari Re: Re[4]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) Re: [MYSTARA] - Best Modules!!! Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) Re: [MYSTARA] - Best Modules!!! Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 17:24:06 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gun powder? On Tue, 21 Apr 1998, The Athar wrote: >In a message dated 98-04-21 11:21:30 EDT, Håvard_Rønne_Faanes wrote: ><< I'm not ready for gunpowder in AC1010. However I'm thinking that ggunpowder should be getting common around AC1150. That means that we might soon see test models.. I think the Dwarves might already be experimenting with em. All this IMC (InMyCampaign) ofcourse. >> >I am! I think the cultures that are in the "proper" time period should have them, such as (I know I keep using this nation, sorry) Darokin. Of course, like you said, I wouldn't be the surprised if the dwarves of Rockhome were experimenting with the substance, but if I was running a Mystara campaign I know for certain that countries like Darokin, Rockhome and Glantri would have at least 16th century muskets (or something like that). That would work with the "feel" of those nations, but, you must consider the consequences. If you introduce such weaponry, thyatis will certainly get it and soon it will spread across the known world. gunpowder makes people stop wearing armour, and this will remove the importance of knights and could become the beginning of the end of the feudal system. I chose to let this evolve over time. So that the technology level will be more even when such changes happen. IMC nations like Karameikos and the northern reaches are developing very rapidly these days. I figure Thyatis, Darokin and Glantri are about the same technologywise. Karameikos is basically the same too, though underdeveloped because untill recently the thyatians never cared to do anything but exploit the Traladarans, though all that changed with Stefan Karameikos. thanks for listening. Sayonara(showing off my Japanese) Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 11:13:03 -0500 From: "Cecil Cosman" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Best module Could someone give a summary of the DDA series (Arena of Thyatis, Legions of Thyatis, Eye of Traldar, and The Dymrak Dread) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 12:28:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Best module At 11:13 AM 4/22/98 -0500, you wrote: >Could someone give a summary of the DDA series (Arena of Thyatis, Legions of Thyatis, Eye of Traldar, and The Dymrak Dread) The first two are a series; the PCs become gladiators in the first one, and have to deal with a threat to the city from underneath. A corrupt senator is at the heart of things. There's a lot more than just that, but I'm not a spoiler. Eye of Traldar is a separate adventure that takes place in the Black Eagle Barony. It's a low-level adventure, however, with no appearances by the baron himself or by Bargle. Typical dungeon crawl, for the most part. Dymrak Dread was created for the Black boxed set that had those ultra-beginner rules and all the fold-up counters. It was a really simple goblin cave thing; basically a 1st-2nd level character adventure. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 17:41:28 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - WoTI Lightning Zombies IMC I set that first adventure on the Savage Coast (near where Elegidos "disappeared without a trace", if you're interested... I was going do develop that, but in in the end I didn't... Anyway, Lord Kazakk got away, and became a Savage Coast swashbuckling villain/pirate. He turned up in one adventure with Donovan Keir, Vilaverdan pirate extraordinaire, as one of his companions. In terms of game stats, I made him a fighter (level 8 I think?) to reflect two years of Piracy on the High Seas... Sadly Lord Kazakk was eventually roasted to Final Death by an enduk priest of Ixion (who has since earned a barony in Wendar after defeating Landryn Teriak in the famed adventure, X11, and has locked horns(excuse the pun) with Prince Morphail of Boldavia. Hey, if the Ethies attack Glantri IMC they would get at least one ally... ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: 22 Apr 1998 11:30:03 -0500 From: Alan Shutko Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Re: Best Modules!!! >>>>>"S" == Shin Chyang Yu writes: S> Alan Shutko pontificated: >>I don't have my copy of the ballot anymore, but I'm quite sure that ToEE isn't on there (having looked) and I don't think GDQ is either, since it also had a series revival, iirc. S> Oh, so it is a multiple choice? Yes. It was a "pick four boxes" ballot, where some adventures (I think, maybe, desert nomads was one case) were grouped into a single checkbox. - -- Alan Shutko - By consent of the corrupted To do nothing is to be nothing. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 13:41:06 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Another question about countries..=) << Actually they don't...unless the operative word is "similar". The people of Darokin specialize in rapiers and polearms. They wear light armor with a metal breastplate. Karameikans tend to ride horses and wear more plate armor and wield the more "knightly" weapons. Ethengarians...well, I'll let Jamuga handle them... >> Heard I call my name? O.k., a true Ethengarian horse warrior or bratak wears leather armour, rides the best warhorses of the world, fires the deadliest arrows with the best bows and wears a sword should he be so unluck to fight on foot. Some more important warriors use lamellar armour and lances but you really don't need it to be amongst the best warriors of all. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 13:41:08 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) << Glantri is more advanced technologically (Renaissance vs Bronze Age - IRL there is just no way on that reason alone!) >> I'm wondering who brought up THAT. To remind all: When the Mongols overran Europe the built no cities, but the technological level was higher than that of poor, old Europe. << Glantri has magic. Ethengar doesn't. Ethengar may be able to scrape a few priests and shamans together. Not as many as Glantri can field mages (1 in 20 Glantrians is supposed to be a mage. Thus for parity (population again) Ethengar must field at least 1 in 10 priests. I dont think so... they aren't a theocracy like the Heldannics!). Clerics are not as good as mages in supporting armies anyway. Mages can be drafted - clerics might be against war (depending on how the Immortals view this little mosh). >> We're talking about ETHENGARIAN clerics! And here some help clerics can do: Create Water Create Food Raise Dead Raise Dead Fully Bless Cure light Wounds Cure heavy Wounds Cure critical Wounds Cureall Cure Disease Any more questions? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 13:41:05 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Corran Keep << In the WotI map Corran Keep appears in the hex north of Fort Lakeside in Glantrian territory! Is this another TSR mistake or can you give a plausible explanation? >> Borders! You cares for borders in THESE mountains? :-) Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 13:41:07 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gun powder? << Aside from the rarity of smoke powder, there is also the limited range of said product. IIRC smoke powder is a magical substance and acts (reacts) only in the SC area. Taken outside these bounderies a weilder will be lucky to get a few sputtering sparks. That is IIRC and am not too mistaken. >> A very reasonable assumption. I agree to you, but I don't believe that this fact was stated explicitly. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 13:41:09 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gun powder? << I am! I think the cultures that are in the "proper" time period should have them, such as (I know I keep using this nation, sorry) Darokin. Of course, like you said, I wouldn't be the surprised if the dwarves of Rockhome were experimenting with the substance, but if I was running a Mystara campaign I know for certain that countries like Darokin, Rockhome and Glantri would have at least 16th century muskets (or something like that). - Technocrat >> Your name betrays you... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 14:00:46 -0400 From: Amaldis@concentric.net Subject: [MYSTARA] - Dark elves, Tylion, and Tylari In the Northern Reaches GAZ it says that the moulder dwarves learned a great deal of their black arts from dark elves. These elves are described as having dark skin, serving Entropic Immortals, and being masters of evil magic and the making of evil artifacts. Since there are no drow on Mystara(no source says there are drow on Mystara, though the Northern Reaches GAZ and an arcade game called D&D Tower of Doom imply that there are), who exactly are these elves? Also, within Dawn of the Emporers there is a huge discrepancy when it talks about the reign of Tylion. According to some parts of it, Tylion was Emporer when Alphatia conquered Glantri, but elsewhere it says he became Emporer in the 20th century, taking the throne from his mother Tylari. Which is the truth? - -Amaldis *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 11:22:19 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: Re[4]: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs. the Known World >In a message dated 98-04-14 21:06:16 EDT, mlevy@orion.oac.uci.edu writes: >>Jaggar may be a schweinkopf sometimes >A query for those of us who don't know German -- What is a "schweinkopf"? >I know that "pig" is in there as "schwein", but I have no idea about the >"kopf" >part. Schweinkopf means pigheaded ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 14:22:18 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) At 11:07 PM 4/21/98 EDT, you wrote: >>Rome was not Renaissance, but they were certainly more advanced than the Mongols. >And how is Glantri anything like Rome was? Or Ethengar like the Mongals for that matter. I was responding to the idea that Glantri could beat Ethengar based on technological advancement. So your question could work either way. It does not have much to do with the point I was making though. Since the Mongols ran over much of western Europe, we know that the more technologically superior force does not always win. I could also point out Custer's Last Stand... >>So what? Lesser populations, smaller armies, have often won battles. >Going by that argument, the Five Shires or Karameikos could take over the Known World. Sure, it's possible, but what really are the chances. We're talking about 2-1 odds and a magic infested country here. It is not the only factor. Yes, Custer's smaller army lost (even given the fact that by your logic he should have won because he had the more technologically advanced force), but look at the northern Colonel at the battle of Gettysburg. The one told "Hold this hill. You are the last line of defense." He held the hill despite being badly outnumbered...and outgunned. His men had long since run out of ammunition and were using bayonets when they were relieved. Okay real quick! Race to give me the name of this Colonel. He started out as an English teacher. See if you can beat Alex to the punch! >>>Glantri has a bigger raisable army (even allowing for Bronze Age Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 15:23:33 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #236 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com >>>cultures being able to sustain larger number of troops in the field, this iis >>>more than offset by the fact that Glantri has double the population...) >>Again, these things are not decided on numbers. Numbers are one factor. >Numbers are a big factor in war. It is only one factor, but it's another strike against Ethengar. I think you will find the number factor greatly reduced when the dwarves are brought in. They can field an incredible amount of fighters, especially given that both men and women fight. >>In general, when talking about pcs fighting monsters, you are right. Mages are superior to clerics in a 1-1 fight. But imagine if those shaman and priests of Ethengar start poisoning the Glantrian water and livestock. What if they start using their powers to cause Glantrian food to become diseased? >I really doubt that these clerics would be able to get into Glantri and perform this, Why not? but even if a few did.....how much of an effect do you really tthis would have on the whole country? A rampant disease which no one in Glantri can cure? Have you never heard of biological warfare? Regarding this one particular war, the Ethengar have it! >And if hundreds of mages threw off fireballs in the direction of the on-coming >Ethengarians they could replenish thier food supply. Okay...bad joke, but the point is that Glantri has so many mages that are trained for war that Ethengar >would never stand a chance against em. Every man, woman, and child of those barbaric Ethengar are trained for war. >>As for unfamiliar terrain, it depends on who is attacking. I agree, either army is at a disadvantage in the other's country. With Rockhome aiding Ethengar, the mountains will not be a problem. >Why would you think Rockhome would help out Ethengar? I think this has been answered pretty well in other messages. Suffice to say, the dwarves would react if their recent (in terms of dwarven memory) enemy started carving dominions out of Ethengar bordering Rockhome. >>As for mysterious plagues...The priestly magics of Ethengar are certainly more likely to be of help than the mage magics of Glantri. >The preistly magics of Ethengar could do no such thing. Priests can't cause disease? What game are you playing? How many clerics do >you think are in Ethengar? The Ethengar are very religious. I would imagine quite a few. >>>Glantrian trade is a "nice little earner". Ethengars turning Glantri into aa >>>wasteland will not be good for the Darokinian economy. The DDC will probably try (and do a good job) of trying to broker a peace. >>This is true. >i dont agree. Darokin has never interfered in the past during these wars, and i don't see why they would start now. Darokin diplomats always try to broker peace. It is economical for them to maintain peace between Ethengar and Glantri. And I disagree with you. I believe they have, in the past, "interfered" in these wars. Not militarily, but diplomatically. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 20:04:25 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) >I'm wondering who brought up THAT. To remind all: When the Mongols overran Europe the built no cities, but the technological level was higher than that of poor, old Europe. Well, only quoting canon (PWAs, to be precise). And we are not talking about Roman Europe. We are talking about 16th century Europe - you know, when the Spanish were grinding primitives under the technological jackboot. And the Spanish didnt have magic. ><< Glantri has magic. Ethengar doesn't. Ethengar may be able to scrape a >few priests and shamans together. Not as many as Glantri can field mages (1 >in 20 Glantrians is supposed to be a mage. Thus for parity (population again) Ethengar must field at least 1 in 10 priests. I dont think so... they aren't a theocracy like the Heldannics!). Clerics are not as good as mages in supporting armies anyway. Mages can be drafted - clerics might be >against war (depending on how the Immortals view this little mosh). >> >We're talking about ETHENGARIAN clerics! And here some help clerics can do: >Create Water >Create Food >Raise Dead >Raise Dead Fully >Bless >Cure light Wounds >Cure heavy Wounds >Cure critical Wounds >Cureall >Cure Disease >Any more questions? The Glantrian Circle of Alchemy can duplicate most if not all of the healing stuff. And Teleport can solve all the create food/water stuff. Raise Dead? I'm sure mass raisings are going to aggravate at least some Immortals - Hel? Thanatos? >Jamuga Khan >"Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** Though not yet law in Glantri. :) Come to think of it, law only in a barren wilderness! ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 15:08:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Best Modules!!! >* how is module Y a good introdution to Mystara? * what makes module Y a good candidate for reprinting? * would it be easy to convert module Y to another campaign world? * etc. Okay, my favorite 4 Mystara modules/series of modules: CM1 (Test of the warlords)/M2 (Vengeance of Alphaks) - -these two modules provide one of the best overviews ofthe Thyatis-Alphatia conflict without taking place in either of those nations..you get an outsider's view of it all. - -Norworld is a wonderful setting IMO and these modules do a good job of developing it DA1 (Adventures in Blackmoor) - -develops the history of Mystara - -very good overview of the whole area during the time, letting you branch off from there for a long campaign - -there is a real sense of purpose, what with Blackmoor constantly defending against one big bad foe or another (Afridhi,Skhandarians,Iron Duke,Wizard's Cabal,Egg of Coot,etc) B10 (Night's Dark Terror) (I continue to be surprised by the group-wide praise for this module. . It was very well done but so IMO were all these others) - -nice, smooth-flowing,long adventure - -like DA1, a sense of rediscovering history (Lost Valley) and a sense of purpose (stop the Iron Ring) M1 (Into the Maelstorm) - -covers a wide gamut of scenario types (Settling disputes in the sky kingdoms, reliving the Odyssey, trying to save Norworld/stop Alphaks, the mystery of finding out who's responsible for the plague, dealing with politics in re:Baron Norlan) - -like B10, flows smoothly from one point to the next - -like DA1 and B10, a sense of rediscovering history once again (Alphatian past) Just missing my list would probably be B4,X3 and IM1 >Finally, I wanted to ask if someone could present a case for whichever module is the one involving the Black Eagle Barony and the 'infamous' Bargle. There's been a fair bit about that module on the list over time, and wonder if it would 'qualify' for 'top four'. I don't recall any module with Bargle or the Black Eagle Barony playing a prominent role. Bargle was intro'ed in the solo adventure of the basic boxed set and expanded on in the group adventure in said set. He was mentioned again in the expert rules adventure samples but I can't recall having seen him elsewhere. The Black Eagle Barony is first described in the Expert rules set and then expanded on in the Companion rules (where it features prominently in a sample adventure). Now, a B.E.B module would be very interesting to me..it seems like an interesting, if undeveloped setting. And Bargle's still as cool a villian as there is in Mystara..well, maybe Alphaks beats him out (M1,M2,M3)..and I always thought Xanathon from X3 had a lot of potential.. I'm not going to say I'm a better revolutionary, but I'm definitely a better cook than Che was. - Fidel Castro *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 20:12:33 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) >I was responding to the idea that Glantri could beat Ethengar based on technological advancement. So your question could work either way. It does not have much to do with the point I was making though. Since the Mongols ran over much of western Europe, we know that the more technologically superior force does not always win. I could also point out Custer's Last Stand... All I know is that is not the Native Americans calling the shots (excuse the pun) in the US of A. Technology won the war - individual battles arent so relevant in my opinion. >Okay real quick! Race to give me the name of this Colonel. He started out as an English teacher. See if you can beat Alex to the punch! Colonel Chamberlain - he got the Medal of Honor for it. (and I'm not even American!). I might point out that Chamberlain was entrenched in a defensive position at the top of a heavily forested hill (Little Round Top, if i recall). However in an Ethengarian conflict it would be the Glantrians on top of hills in entrenched positions. Bayonet charges are feasible down hills covered with thick vegetation. I imagine they are less feasible when on horseback, riding up a bare, rocky mountain, with Fort Tchernovodsk to look forward to at the top. Speaking of Fort Tchernovodsk, that "mysterious plague" I was on about was vampirism. There better be a lot of priests! And Ethengarian priests? Sorry, but Clovefoot, Wobblebelly and the other one don't scare me. I'm sure they scare Jaggar even less. And a note about this "catching Glantri unprepared" thing. Jaggar has been planning the day that Ethengar attacks since he was in his crib. And he is a smart cookie. I'm sure he has some devilishly fiendish strategies for the Khan and his rabble. ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 15:14:51 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) At 08:04 PM 4/22/98 +0100, you wrote: >>We're talking about ETHENGARIAN clerics! And here some help clerics can do: >>Create Water >>Create Food >>Raise Dead >>Raise Dead Fully >>Bless >>Cure light Wounds >>Cure heavy Wounds >>Cure critical Wounds >>Cureall >>Cure Disease >>Any more questions? >The Glantrian Circle of Alchemy can duplicate most if not all of the healing stuff. Ah, but you are referring to a "secret" craft. If these mages run about healing the wounded and curing diseases, they won't be terribly secret anymore. And, people may burn them at the stake for being clerics... >And Teleport can solve all the create food/water stuff. How? >Raise Dead? I'm sure mass raisings are going to aggravate at least some Immortals - Hel? Thanatos? Immortals try to stay out of it. Besides, who are the Immortals going to side with? Godless Glantri or reverant Ethengar..? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 15:17:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Best Modules!!! >Quagmire is one the very few D&D products I'm missing. I'd love to get a copy of that somewhere. It really isn't all that good. It develops the Serpent Peninsula very slightly, the adventure itself is a decent concept (help the Quagmirians find a new home) but there is no real cohesive factor holding it all together. Or at least, that's my opinion of X6. (If you still want to get a copy of it though, I'd be willing to trade or sell you mine) >beginning player (solo adventure) encounters. Later he developed into the nasty we all hate. Bargle was a nasty I hated from day one :) That first adventure does make a nice impact (esp. since he kills Aleena). Bargle was developed further in the Karameikos GAZ? How much detail was given on him? Or on the Barony for that matter? I'm not going to say I'm a better revolutionary, but I'm definitely a better cook than Che was. - Fidel Castro *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 15:21:51 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) At 08:12 PM 4/22/98 +0100, you wrote: >>I was responding to the idea that Glantri could beat Ethengar based on technological advancement. So your question could work either way. It does not have much to do with the point I was making though. Since the Mongols ran over much of western Europe, we know that the more technologically superior force does not always win. I could also point out Custer's Last Stand... >All I know is that is not the Native Americans calling the shots (excuse the pun) in the US of A. As a school teacher I might argue this... Technology won the war - individual battles arent sso relevant in my opinion. If you remove all the individual battles, you remove the war. >>Okay real quick! Race to give me the name of this Colonel. He started out as an English teacher. See if you can beat Alex to the punch! >Colonel Chamberlain - he got the Medal of Honor for it. Excellent job! >Bayonet charges are feasible down hills covered with thick vegetation. I imagine they are less feasible when on horseback, riding up a bare, rocky mountain, with Fort Tchernovodsk to look forward to at the top. But you seem to be assuming Ethengarian invasion of Glantri. What about the other way around? >Speaking of Fort Tchernovodsk, that "mysterious plague" I was on about was vampirism. There better be a lot of priests! Vampires are dust before a bunch of high level priests. I doubt Morphail would favor your war knowing his whole culture may be wiped out. >And Ethengarian priests? Sorry, but Clovefoot, Wobblebelly and the other one don't scare me. I'm sure they scare Jaggar even less. These aren't priests that you are mentioning. As for the priests, I think it is their disease and poison abilities that really clench it. >And a note about this "catching Glantri unprepared" thing. Jaggar has been planning the day that Ethengar attacks since he was in his crib. And he is a smart cookie. I'm sure he has some devilishly fiendish strategies for the Khan and his rabble. I personally never suggested they would be... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #236 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 18:02:19 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #237 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Wednesday, April 22 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 237 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Netbooks Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Books Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Books Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Books Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) Re: [MYSTARA] - Best Modules!!! Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) Re: [MYSTARA] - Best Modules!!! Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) Re: [MYSTARA] - Netbooks Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs Glantri ("Will this never end!" - C3P0) Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Best module and Mystaran uniqueness Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 20:26:22 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Netbooks Could someone give me some directions to the Great Net books? Having surfed for some time upon the rocky shoals of dead links, could someone give me a reliable one? (in particular the Wild Magic and Psionics stuff). Cheerz all! ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 15:27:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Books >>I just don't like Gunnarson's style. I'd much rather see some Mystaran books set in the Gazetteer or WotI eras, rather than five hundred or so years earlier. >I am not familiar with "Gazetteer" or "WotI" either. Can you explain to a rookie gamer (3 yrs.) what these are? These aren't general gaming terms but rather Mystara-specific. The Gazzetteers were a series of 14 or so volumes detailing individual Mystaran nations that all took place in the same time frame (1000 AC). WOTI refers to Wrath of the Immortals, a boxed set that takes place a few years after the Gazeteers (GAZ for short, an abbreviation used often on the list) and which cause major alterations to the world. I'm not going to say I'm a better revolutionary, but I'm definitely a better cook than Che was. - Fidel Castro *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 16:01:08 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) >I think you will find the number factor greatly reduced when the dwarves are brought in. The dwaves would never be brought in. Ethengar has tried to invade Glantri in the past, and the dwarves never helped. It's not thier place. They would be foolish to sacrifice so many lives for the cause of Ethengar. The Dwarves don't want to take over Glantri, they're happy with where they are. Just because they dislike Glantri you think they will enter a war like this? It's very doubtfull. >They can field an incredible amount of fighters, especially given that both men and women fight. And Glantri has war mages, which are trained to fight and cast magic. They are very organized and have been used in the past. Jaggar's 50+ golems would be able to rip right through the armies. Plus with Glantri on the defense they hold many more advantages. Ethengar will hold no chance in the military aspect. Not to mention how foolish it would be for the Khan to attack Glantri at this time with many Ethengarians questioning his ability as Khan. If his next battle doesn't end in victory, Ethengar will be in big trouble. So, don't you think he could plan a better place to attack than the toughest country in the KW? >>but even if a few did.....how much of an effect do you really this would have on the whole country? >A rampant disease which no one in Glantri can cure? Have you never heard of biological warfare? No, not in D&D. I've never heard of a spell that spreads disease through countries at a time. Cause disease works on one individual. no where in spell discription does it say that the disease spreads to anyone, never mind a whole country. >>And if hundreds of mages threw off fireballs in the direction of the oon-coming >>Ethengarians they could replenish thier food supply. Okay...bad joke, but the >>point is that Glantri has so many mages that are trained for war that EEthengar >>would never stand a chance against em. >Every man, woman, and child of those barbaric Ethengar are trained for war. I really don't see how this answers my point. >>>As for mysterious plagues...The priestly magics of Ethengar are certainly more likely to be of help than the mage magics of Glantri. >>The preistly magics of Ethengar could do no such thing. >Priests can't cause disease? What game are you playing? Priests can cause disease. But you stated "mysterious plagues". There is a big difference. Cause Disease, as described on page 36 of the Rules Cyclopedia states: Range: 30 feet Effect: One living creature within range So if all the Ethengar clerics can manage to infiltrate Glantri, and get within 30 feet of their target, manage to cast the spell (The spell has instant effects, so it would be quite obvious of the attack), and somehow manage to get away.......then.....okay i agree that some people would be under the effects of this disease. But still this is in no way a plague. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 16:14:42 EDT From: BoBo II Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) In a message dated 98-04-22 07:26:53 EDT, you write: << What kind of ties? I had no idea that those two countries had good relations. I don't remember reading anything about personal ties however. Could you give a reference as to where you read this? I don't have my Eth. Gaz with me, but if i remember my Old Campfire stories correctly . . . A young warrior with a big future ahead of him was pretty sorely beaten up after some battle or another and was found/nursed/befriended by a citizen of Rockhome who became his comrade in arms through many adventures and eventually rose to a level of influence when the young lad grew up to be . . .The Khan! So diplomaticly, I'm not sure of the influence, but that strong "the things great myths are made of" relationship between Khan and dwarf has lead to a better relationship between to the nations . . .primarily because they don't compete for territory and have mutual enemies in the Humaniods of Broken land and Glantrian wizards. (Comments, oh Great Khan?) ps. The things the Glantrians did to the Dwarves in their experiments and Plague persecution, I have always interpreted to be horrors not quickly forgotten by the long-lived Dwarves *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 16:14:26 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) At 04:01 PM 4/22/98 EDT, you wrote: >>I think you will find the number factor greatly reduced when the dwarves are brought in. >The dwaves would never be brought in. Ethengar has tried to invade Glantri in the past, and the dwarves never helped. It's not thier place. They would be foolish to sacrifice so many lives for the cause of Ethengar. The Dwarves don't want to take over Glantri, they're happy with where they are. Just because they dislike Glantri you think they will enter a war like this? It's very doubtfull. You are assuming an invasion of Glantri. I am assuming an invasion of Ethengar. If the Glantrians invaded Ethengar, the dwarves WOULD support Ethengar. >>They can field an incredible amount of fighters, especially given that both men and women fight. >And Glantri has war mages, which are trained to fight and cast magic. They are >very organized and have been used in the past. As have other armies. Jaggar's 50+ golems would be >able to rip right through the armies. Where did he get 50+ golems? Plus with Glantri on the defense they >hold many more advantages. If you are positing a Glantri on the defense. I said in my original post that either country is at an advantage on their own home turf. The statement that I was responding to was the idea that Ethengar would NEVER win against Glantri. Ethengar will hold no chance in the military aaspect. Not to mention how foolish it would be for the Khan to attack Glantri at this time with many Ethengarians questioning his ability as Khan. If his next battle doesn't end in victory, Ethengar will be in big trouble. So, don't >you think he could plan a better place to attack than the toughest country in the KW? No doubt, if he is planning the attack. He may well try to take the dwarfgates as I posited much earlier. If he took the dwarfgates, and put an end to the threat of the humanoids there, then you may well find the dwarves and elves pressuring Darokin to let him stay. >>>but even if a few did.....how much of an effect do you really this would have on the whole country? >>A rampant disease which no one in Glantri can cure? Have you never heard of biological warfare? >No, not in D&D. I've never heard of a spell that spreads disease through countries at a time. Cause disease works on one individual. no where in spell discription does it say that the disease spreads to anyone, never mind a whole >country. You have to think big. More later... >>>And if hundreds of mages threw off fireballs in the direction of the ooon-coming >>>Ethengarians they could replenish thier food supply. Okay...bad joke, but tthe >>>point is that Glantri has so many mages that are trained for war that EEEthengar >>>would never stand a chance against em. >>Every man, woman, and child of those barbaric Ethengar are trained for war. >I really don't see how this answers my point. You said "that Glantri has so many mages that are trained for war that Ethengar would never stand a chance against em". >>>>As for mysterious plagues...The priestly magics of Ethengar are certainly >>>>more likely to be of help than the mage magics of Glantri. >>>The preistly magics of Ethengar could do no such thing. >>Priests can't cause disease? What game are you playing? >Priests can cause disease. But you stated "mysterious plagues". There is a big >difference. Cause Disease, as described on page 36 of the Rules Cyclopedia states: >Range: 30 feet >Effect: One living creature within range Okay...think big. A cleric of the Ethengar infiltrates Glantri and goes to work on their cattle. He infects one living cow at a time...perhaps one cow per herd. Maybe he will trust that one cow to infect the rest of the herd. Suddenly the Glantrians wake up and find Mad Cow Disease rampant in their country! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 16:19:47 EDT From: BoBo II Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Books In a message dated 98-04-22 08:58:10 EDT, you write: << Each one described in detail one nation of the D&D Known World. >> What was great about them for me was that they made each land a viable setting for a whole campaign of play, with NPCs, history, cultural notes, Rules for that setting, etc. If you found a Gaz you liked, that was all you really needed. You could make up the outside influences from the notes and run your whole campaign in, say, The Five Shires. Of course, as they wrote more, the stories of each land became more intertwined (read sometimes contadictory to older products) and we Myst. fans and controll freaks had to buy them all to get The Big Picture. Ideally the Whole World alamnacs first would have helped. (alas) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 13:27:30 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar >No, you're just another of these damn Glantri lovers. Has anybody noticed that this unimportant little country (Ethengar) has had probably the strongest support in whole Mystara? now why would i like a country of Cleric-hating, that hates dwarves, and halfing, and has the biggest ego-trip of them of the nations of the known world, besides the only reason i don't support Ethengar that much is that there isn't in my opinion enough for me to run an interesting campaign there. I like Darokin, it's in the center of everything. >Very sad, this thing. true but you must take thing with a grain of salt, plus a slice of lemon and a shot of Tequila. 'playing football is like making love to a women, once you score it makes all the trying worthwhile' -Chef, South park ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 16:38:51 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) << The whole country SUNK! Glantri had all kinds of enemies during WotI and they were not defeated. Ethengar will not beat them. Rockhome & Ethengar will not beat them. And any country led by an intelligent ruling faction will not even consider attacking the current "most powerful country in the KW," at this time. >> But when Ethengar or Rockhome would sink during a war against Glantri, all countries in SE Brun would be destroyed. It's a matter of time. The immortals will know it... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 16:38:45 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Books << Has anyone read the Mystara Books? Dragon Cleric, Dragon Mage, and Dragon King? I really enjoyed them. Anyone else? >> Yes, I enjoyed them too. They were much better than this Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 18:02:19 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #237 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com Penhaligon trilogy which was classified as fictional in "Hail the Heroes". The same module said that Solveig came to Karameikos after Thelwynn left the Highlands. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 16:38:50 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) << What kind of ties? I had no idea that those two countries had good relations. I don't remember reading anything about personal ties however. Could you give a reference as to where you read this? -Inconu >> Have you forgotten Gimluk the Horse Warrior? This brave dwarf Moglai met when his uncle throw him out? This craftsman who is now organizing craftsmanship in the camps of the Great Khan? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 16:48:02 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Best Modules!!! << Bargle was a nasty I hated from day one :) That first adventure does make a nice impact (esp. since he kills Aleena). Bargle was developed further in the Karameikos GAZ? How much detail was given on him? Or on the Barony for that matter? >> Don't worry! Her uncle raised her back to life. Jamuga Khan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 16:58:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) At 01:41 PM 4/22/98 EDT, you wrote: ><< Glantri has magic. Ethengar doesn't. Ethengar may be able to scrape a ffew priests and shamans together. Not as many as Glantri can field mages (1 in 20 Glantrians is supposed to be a mage. Thus for parity (population again) Ethengar must field at least 1 in 10 priests. I dont think so... they aren't a theocracy like the Heldannics!). Clerics are not as good as mages in supporting armies anyway. Mages can be drafted - clerics might be against war (depending on how the Immortals view this little mosh). >> >We're talking about ETHENGARIAN clerics! And here some help clerics can do: >Create Water >Create Food >Raise Dead >Raise Dead Fully >Bless >Cure light Wounds >Cure heavy Wounds >Cure critical Wounds >Cureall >Cure Disease >Any more questions? Not really a question, but a comment. And while I shudder to think of the consequences to the fabric of reality should I take the Ethengarian side :-) I should mention that Ethengar does indeed have mages. Not as many as Glantri, but I'll bet that their Hakomons are pretty nasty in their own right. Repeat: Ethengar has mages. They also have clerics and shamans. This is a nasty combination, one which Glantri is without since they don't have clerics. Point to Ethengar. But Karameikos is still better. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 17:09:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Best Modules!!! At 03:17 PM 4/22/98 -0400, you wrote: >It really isn't all that good. It develops the Serpent Peninsula very slightly, the adventure itself is a decent concept (help the Quagmirians find a new home) but there is no real cohesive factor holding it all together. Or at least, that's my opinion of X6. (If you still want to get a copy of it though, I'd be willing to trade or sell you mine) Hmmm...what would you be asking for it? I don't have any duplicates of any Mystara material. >Bargle was a nasty I hated from day one :) That first adventure does make a nice impact (esp. since he kills Aleena). Bargle was developed further in the Karameikos GAZ? How much detail was given on him? Or on the Barony for that matter? Well, in the Gazetteer he is described as a 15th level Chaotic MU who currently serves the Black Eagle Baron. The Gazetteer was 64 pages, and about a page or so is devoted to describing the Black Eagle Barony. The Baron himself is also detailed. There's not a whole lot more, though. Unfortunately, TSR missed an opportunity to describe this bunch of nasties in campaign-shaking detail, preferring to go with other product lines. Tragic. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 17:16:37 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) >>All I know is that is not the Native Americans calling the shots (excuse the pun) in the US of A. >As a school teacher I might argue this... Might argue this? How? You think the Native Americans are secretly in control of the USA? >>Technology won the war - individual battles arent so relevant in my opinion. >If you remove all the individual battles, you remove the war. Great. So, look at ALL the individual battles then, and not just one from the war. Obviously in the case of the native americans, they won a few battles but in the end were completely and utterly defeated in every meaning of the words. >>Bayonet charges are feasible down hills covered with thick vegetation. I imagine they are less feasible when on horseback, riding up a bare, rocky mountain, with Fort Tchernovodsk to look forward to at the top. >But you seem to be assuming Ethengarian invasion of Glantri. What about the other way around? Why would Glantri invade Ethengar? And please don't say because they have bad relations with one another. >>Speaking of Fort Tchernovodsk, that "mysterious plague" I was on about was vampirism. There better be a lot of priests! >Vampires are dust before a bunch of high level priests. I doubt Morphail would favor your war knowing his whole culture may be wiped out. It only takes one case to start an epidemic of vampirism. And vamps are no slouches. They aren't going to be knocking on the front door of the Ethengar priests homes. But instead would be infecting others, which would obviously be more Ethengarians. Before you know it, Ethengar is spending all thier time fighting themselves rather than Glantri. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 17:16:58 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) >The Glantrian Circle of Alchemy can duplicate most if not all of the healing stuff. >And, people may burn them at the stake for being clerics... Why? it's Alchemy with no Immortal intervention. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 17:25:49 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) At 05:16 PM 4/22/98 EDT, you wrote: >>The Glantrian Circle of Alchemy can duplicate most if not all of the healing stuff. >>And, people may burn them at the stake for being clerics... >Why? it's Alchemy with no Immortal intervention. Because the Glantrian people are trained from birth to hate clerics. When people see these guys in robes running about healing the sick, they are likely to jump to conclusions. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 17:18:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Netbooks At 08:26 PM 4/22/98 +0100, you wrote: >Could someone give me some directions to the Great Net books? Having surfed for some time upon the rocky shoals of dead links, could someone give me a reliable one? (in particular the Wild Magic and Psionics stuff). Try this; it's the home page for the Great Net Spellbook, with links to the various mirror sites. http://www.istari.org/gnba/ The Netbooks themselves aren't on that site, but they are found through it. The Spellbooks are at this site. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 17:30:10 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) At 05:16 PM 4/22/98 EDT, you wrote: >>But you seem to be assuming Ethengarian invasion of Glantri. What about the other way around? >Why would Glantri invade Ethengar? And please don't say because they have bad relations with one another. Why would Ethengar invade Glantri? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 21:54:04 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar vs Glantri ("Will this never end!" - C3P0) At 22.50 21/04/98 +0100, Robert Fry wrote: >Fair enough - but I'm sure most mages have worked out that disintegrate isnt very effective against people... considering at least half the time they cast it it doesnt work... a bit like polymorph other really! Actually I don't know how disintegrate works, because I've never had PCs over 9th level. Maybe Lightning Strike is better... and it does not even have problems with saving throws :) - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 21:58:09 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Best module and Mystaran uniqueness At 09.57 22/04/98 EST, Shawn Stanley wrote: >Well as an initial idea I percieved something along the KISS line of reasoning, keep-it-simple-stupid. Don't go for any huge storylines and also don't incorporate any recent net-generated events for our pale friends. Keep it all as close to published material as possible with perhaps a hint of something bigger to come. I mean we would want to get this thing published so it may not be best to have a Shadow Elf adventure taking part in the now net-risen Aengmor with the population of Wendar knocking on their door and Rafiel's plans almost at fruition (or whatever the current plans are). However a shadow elf adventure with a bit more of an exploratory angle, perhaps following young shadow elf adventurers as they wander around the surface and meet up with some Mystara specific people on the ground, for example a retinue of DDC guys on some business or other. I agree completely. We don't need to introduce recent net-generated events to make a good shadowelf adventure. I think we should keep to AC 1000 (Gaz time) when writing adventures meant to revive Mystara. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 17:52:06 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) >Where did he get 50+ golems? Jaggar has been creating mass amounts of golems. It's described in Glantri: KoM >>>Priests can't cause disease? What game are you playing? >>Priests can cause disease. But you stated "mysterious plagues". There is a big >>difference. Cause Disease, as described on page 36 of the Rules Cyclopedia states: >>Range: 30 feet >>Effect: One living creature within range >Okay...think big. A cleric of the Ethengar infiltrates Glantri and goes to work on their cattle. He infects one living cow at a time...perhaps one cow per herd. Maybe he will trust that one cow to infect the rest of the herd. Suddenly the Glantrians wake up and find Mad Cow Disease rampant in their country! Like I said before. The disease effects one liveing creature. ONE. It doesn't say that the disease is one that could spread by consumption or by any means. Believe me, if it could then this wouldn't be a 3rd level spell. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 18:01:47 EDT From: CRlPTONITE Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) >>Jaggar's 50+ golems would be >>able to rip right through the armies. >Where did he get 50+ golems? from Herr Rolf von Graustein The actual number is 83 golems. Then there is 16 mechanical magens, 14 manikins and 10 living statues. These numbers are accurate up to 1013AC. << Okay...think big. A cleric of the Ethengar infiltrates Glantri and goes to work on their cattle. He infects one living cow at a time...perhaps one cow per herd. Maybe he will trust that one cow to infect the rest of the herd. Suddenly the Glantrians wake up and find Mad Cow Disease rampant in their country! >> This is a stretch, but if it did work Glantri could lift the ban on clerics again. - --- -- --Criptonite *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #237 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Thursday, April 23 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 238 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) Re: [MYSTARA] - Netbooks Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) Re: [MYSTARA] - Dark elves, Tylion, and Tylari Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) Re: [MYSTARA] - Ongoing Story Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) Re: [MYSTARA] - WoTI Lightning Zombies Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) [MYSTARA] - Marching Armies Re: [MYSTARA] - Dark elves, Tylion, and Tylari Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 00:06:06 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) At 17.25 22/04/98 -0400, Daly wrote: >Because the Glantrian people are trained from birth to hate clerics. When people see these guys in robes running about healing the sick, they are likely to jump to conclusions. So what about the Mystics of Lhasa? Are they goimg to be stoned to death when they enter a Glantrian city? And don't you think there should be some people that aren't clerics but have healing skills in Glantri? Otherwise all glantriana would have died a long time ago due to cold-related illness (e.g. pneumonia...), wouldn't they? I mean, no-clerics doesn't mean there's noone able to heal people and cure diseases. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 18:26:51 -0400 From: Chris Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Netbooks try here first http://www.anet-chi.com/~aardy/rpg/nb-nb.html Robert Fry wrote: >Could someone give me some directions to the Great Net books? Having surfed for some time upon the rocky shoals of dead links, could someone give me a reliable one? (in particular the Wild Magic and Psionics stuff). >Cheerz all! >ROB >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 18:50:06 EDT From: BoBo II Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) In a message dated 4/22/98 10:18:38 AM, you wrote: <> Depending on how a nation weathered the storm of Wrath, right now might be the Perfect time to try attacking Glantri: Internally the council is still figuring out how to deal with new Princes; the humanoids keep presuring Erewan; there have got to be Sind refugee's troubling the west; the losses of Wrath not recovered, and perhaps worst of all, the army have downsized from war status and it would take time to re-up the troops. Fortunately for them, most of their neighbors are in beat up shape, too. Except . . . Wendar! Yeah, Wendar could really. . . I mean . . . oh, never mind. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 19:05:10 EDT From: BoBo II Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) In a message dated 4/22/98 1:48:33 PM, you wrote: <> Sorry. No. In no culture are every single member a thuroughly trained figther/warrior/combattant/ call it what you will. If they were, then that culture would need to feed of all others for their survival. (Much like i picture the Orcish Great Horde of KW history) Saying they could fight and will fight are two different things. The Golden Horde includes tanners, weavers, cooks, weaponsmiths, herdsmen(women), servants, wranglers, the old, the young, Specialists, and just plain "campfollower" etc. Then again, hey . . .it's a fantasy right? Just throwing a little Real World into the mix. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 19:09:56 EDT From: BoBo II Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) In a message dated 4/22/98 2:32:31 PM, you wrote: <<>And Teleport can solve all the create food/water stuff. How?>> No supply lines!!! Command and control baby, command and control! -Norman Schwartzkopf* *(no not really) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 19:17:05 EDT From: BoBo II Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) In a message dated 4/22/98 3:44:19 PM, you wrote: < Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) In a message dated 4/22/98 4:36:20 PM, you wrote: < Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) In a message dated 4/22/98 4:46:50 PM, you wrote: < Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) >>Okay...think big. A cleric of the Ethengar infiltrates Glantri and goes to work on their cattle. He infects one living cow at a time...perhaps one cow per herd. Maybe he will trust that one cow to infect the rest of the herd. Suddenly the Glantrians wake up and find Mad Cow Disease rampant in their country! >Like I said before. The disease effects one liveing creature. ONE. It doesn't say that the disease is one that could spread by consumption or by any means. Believe me, if it could then this wouldn't be a 3rd level spell. How many real life diseases are not contagious? I think it is perfectly reasonable that it would be contagious. As for it being too powerful at 3rd level...well, fireball is third level and one of the best attack spells. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 21:06:32 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) At 12:06 AM 4/23/98 +0200, you wrote: >At 17.25 22/04/98 -0400, Daly wrote: >>Because the Glantrian people are trained from birth to hate clerics. When people see these guys in robes running about healing the sick, they are likely to jump to conclusions. >So what about the Mystics of Lhasa? Are they goimg to be stoned to death when they enter a Glantrian city? I don't think they often enter the cities. Besides, they don't resemble clerics. >And don't you think there should be some people that aren't clerics but have healing skills in Glantri? Otherwise all glantriana would have died a long time ago due to cold-related illness (e.g. pneumonia...), wouldn't they? I mean, no-clerics doesn't mean there's noone able to heal people and cure diseases. Actually, there are non-magical physicians in my own version of Glantri. But they are far inferior to priests. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 21:10:17 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) At 07:09 PM 4/22/98 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 4/22/98 2:32:31 PM, you wrote: ><<>And Teleport can solve all the create food/water stuff. >How?>> >No supply lines!!! But teleport can't sustain whole armies. Gate is a powerful spell... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 21:17:54 EDT From: Mystaros Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dark elves, Tylion, and Tylari In a message dated 98-04-22 14:15:42 EDT, you write: << In the Northern Reaches GAZ it says that the moulder dwarves learned a great deal of their black arts from dark elves. These elves are described as having dark skin, serving Entropic Immortals, and being masters of evil magic and the making of evil artifacts. Since there are no drow on Mystara(no source says there are drow on Mystara, though the Northern Reaches GAZ and an arcade game called D&D Tower of Doom imply that there are), who exactly are these elves? >> I made these guys a subgroup of the Sidhe, rather than the elves as such... found in Norwold, the Northern REaches and on the IoD. I'll post their history and nature some day, when I get around to putting together my Isle of Dawn Magnum Opus... Mystaros *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 21:30:27 EDT From: The Athar Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) << This is a stretch, but if it did work Glantri could lift the ban on clerics again. >> Why *did* Glantri ban clerics? Is it just 'cause of competition or do they have a real reason? - - Technocrat *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 21:30:41 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) >Because the Glantrian people are trained from birth to hate clerics. When people see these guys in robes running about healing the sick, they are likely to jump to conclusio >> How barbaric do you think Glantri is? They will see someone be healed and throw him on a stake and burn him? I don't think so. If anyone questioned someone displaying this power it could be easily explained. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 21:43:33 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) >>Like I said before. The disease effects one liveing creature. ONE. It doesn't >>say that the disease is one that could spread by consumption or by any means. >>Believe me, if it could then this wouldn't be a 3rd level spell. >How many real life diseases are not contagious? quite a few. >I think it is perfectly >reasonable that it would be contagious. As for it being too powerful at 3rd level...well, fireball is third level and one of the best attack spells. And how many "real life" magical diseases are not contagious? This isn't a real disease. It's a magical one. It would be reasonable that it might be contagious since some real world diseases are, but this disease is instilled from cleric to the victim. There is no passing on of the virus. If there were, it would've been defined in the spell discription. As for it's power, you think that a spell that could decimate an entire country is reasonably rated at 3rd level? I've never seen a fireball eliminate millions of people in one shot. And even if it were, what possible game mechanics could you use for the spreading of your disease? Think of cause disease like a cancer. It's difficult to get rid of and is by no means contagious. I could see a 7th level (or quest) spell called spread plague being created, but that's not what cause disease is. Also, if it were, than the reverse would be able to cure multiple diseases at once, which it can't. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 21:48:23 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) < I don't think they often enter the cities. Besides, they don't resemble < clerics. and neither do Alchemists..... >Actually, there are non-magical physicians in my own version of Glantri. But they are far inferior to priests. But the point is that you said people could jump to conclusions over seeing someone being healed. Physicians would be healers, so why wouldn't they be burned along with the Alchemists in your campaign? - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 22:40:57 EDT From: Duncan TKD Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ongoing Story >>IIRC they would someday all come together in some world shaking adventure.<< We hopped. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 08:15:03 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #238 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 23:08:46 EDT From: Duncan TKD Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) That is it. I am tired of this endless debate of war. Wendar comes into the war and blows both Glantri and Ethengar off the map. THERE SATISFIED!!!!! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 23:32:06 -0400 From: Amaldis@concentric.net Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) <> Sorry Duncan, but it is quite obvious due to population levels, lack of magic compared to Glantri, the ability to heal diseases by the circle of Alchemy and the Ethengar shaman, the real world cultures which might or might not resemble Wendar and how they interacted with the Mongols in our world, the terrain of Ethengar and Glantri, the war readiness of Wendar, the lack of efficient cavalry among the Wendarians, and because of the spread of disease among Wendarian troops, Wendar can not blow Glantri and Ethengar off the map. I sincerely hope that my mentioning all of these will prevent another flood into my mail box of "My favorite country can conquer your favorite country," "No it can't, because of the Romans!," "Ha, but what about my terrain and magical powers?," "My horsemen will crush your magical powers, look at my leader's game stats!," etc........ - -Amaldis, who has been deleting a good 95% of all Mystara mailing list mail he gets, before reading it *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 00:43:01 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) In a message dated 98-04-22 09:10:54 EDT, borealis@cois.on.ca writes: >The dwarves REALLY hate Glantri. We're talking hate on a religious scale. IIf Ethengar invited them to beat the living snot out of a few thousand Glantrians, the dwarves would be unable to help because they'd all get stuck >trying to get through the door at the same time. The Shires, for that matter, might even join in. They love Glantri as much as the dwarves do. The hatred between the Dwarves and the Glantrians is mutual. Remember how it started -- a few Dwarves immigrated to Glantri at about the same time a plague started there. The Glantrians jumped to the conclusion that the Dwarves had brought it and massacred them. They have been killing Dwarves ever since. The Halflings also dislike Glantri, but they would lack the Dwarves' motive of revenge for genocide. In fact, one product actually mentions a few Halfling entrepeneurs starting up businesses in Glantri City. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 00:43:04 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - WoTI Lightning Zombies In a message dated 98-04-22 10:15:04 EDT, ccosman@huntingdon.edu writes: >I was rereading the WoTI stuff last night and I read something interesting aabout the lightning zombies. It says that they could be capapble of level advancment. I was wondering if anyone had done anything with them. I mean the entire 'race' of zombies isn't very numerous. with just those people that had died in the presence of the shield being animated but they are intelligent undead and they don't look terribly bad so... anyone done anything with em? Well -- they were originally human, so their stats would be fairly easy to figure out. WotI describes their advantages and weaknesses -- and they seem to have more advantages, so I would give them a hefty XP penalty to compensate. But unless their origins allow more of them to be created elsewhere, there is probably only one surviving lightning zombie -- the kid that the party befriended. The rest were probably destroyed by the meteor. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 00:43:25 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) In a message dated 98-04-22 15:40:26 EDT, jdaly@friend.ly.net writes: >If you remove all the individual battles, you remove the war. But when one side has an overwhelming advantage, it would take a LOT of individual battles to turn the tide the other way. Take the Battle of Little Big Horn -- because of a major advantage in population, white America could afford several such defeats without being adversely affected -- in fact, the main effect of this battle was to annoy Americans to the point that they redoubled their efforts to deal with the Indian "problem" once and for all.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 00:43:18 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) In a message dated 98-04-22 18:25:38 EDT, brizio@lunet.it writes: >So what about the Mystics of Lhasa? Are they goimg to be stoned to death wwhen they enter a Glantrian city? No, they are not considered Clerics -- I suppose their power is not granted by Immortals, so they are okay. But Glantrians may still have some suspicion of them. >And don't you think there should be some people that aren't clerics but have healing skills in Glantri? Otherwise all glantriana would have died a long time ago due to cold-related illness (e.g. pneumonia...), wouldn't they? >I mean, no-clerics doesn't mean there's noone able to heal people and cure diseases. I would resort to a solution given in the "Elves of Alfheim" gazetteer -- in that supplement Elves can learn some Priest spells (including Cure Light Wounds and Cure Disease) as Mage spells. Maybe some Human Mages in Glantri should have the same ability. Also, I would imagine that Glantrian alchemists do a brisk business in healing potions. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 00:43:26 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) In a message dated 98-04-22 16:28:27 EDT, Inconu@aol.com writes: >The dwaves would never be brought in. Ethengar has tried to invade Glantri in the past, and the dwarves never helped. It's not thier place. They would be >foolish to sacrifice so many lives for the cause of Ethengar. The Dwarves don't want to take over Glantri, they're happy with where they are. Just because they dislike Glantri you think they will enter a war like this? It's >very doubtfull. 1) If the Ethengars are invading Glantri, you are for the most part correct. But I suspect that a number of Dwarves would volunteer to help out the Khan because of their hatred of Glantri -- and many others would be lured by pay as mercenaries. 2) If Glantri is invading Ethengar, the situation is far more serious from the point of view of the Dwarves -- they would do what they could to help Ethengar survive, as the alternative would be having Glantrians for neighbors. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 00:43:28 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) One question -- even though we know why Alphatia sank, why would the people of Mystara have even the faintest clue? IIRC, most would think that the cause was either the "Wrath of the Immortals" for whatever sins the Alphatians were guilty of or a simple natural disaster with no intelligent cause. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 00:43:29 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) In a message dated 98-04-22 17:48:19 EDT, jdaly@friend.ly.net writes: >Why would Ethengar invade Glantri? After the events of WotI, Moglai Khan badly needs some victories to shore up his position among the Ethengar tribes. A successful campaign against Glantri would do the trick quite nicely. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 13:05:31 +0200 From: Lille My Subject: [MYSTARA] - Marching Armies Now all this talking about Ethengar vs Glantri or the rest of the world, got me thinking on military in general. Once in a while I use armies or large groups of troops moving around, but I have always wondered about "travel times". How far can an army advance in a day, especially some of the special Mystaran armies, that are supported by magic or are heavy on cavalry, special races or skyships. How far away does an army (on average with and without the use of magic) scout ahead, sort of like, when is the opposing army noticed and preparations begun for battle. Also has anyone any ideas to how long most of the nations can maintain an invasion of another nation (mainly thinking on the drain of resources and manpower, that otherwise should have maintained the homenation). And finally, if you were to invade a nation, where would you prefer to strike and what would the keypoints be (that is, if for exaple the Five Shires were to attack Darokin, which way would they march and what would be the most important places to conquer and where would most likely the major battles be fought, I am not talking wether or not a nation would invade another, but where important battles would be fought). Hope that some of you can help me with some of these questions. Lille My *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 12:33:08 +0200 From: Lille My Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dark elves, Tylion, and Tylari At 14:00 22-04-98 -0400, Amaldis wrote: >In the Northern Reaches GAZ it says that the moulder dwarves learned a great deal of their black arts from dark elves. These elves are described as having dark skin, serving Entropic Immortals, and being masters of evil magic and the making of evil artifacts. Since there are no drow on Mystara(no source says there are drow on Mystara, though the Northern Reaches GAZ and an arcade game called D&D Tower of Doom imply that there are), who exactly are these elves? A few possible solutions: 1) The moulder dwarves are wrong/lying. There are no such elves, the dwarves are visited in their dreams by the entropic immortals or the basis of their legends are wrong. 2) These elves are not elves in your usual sense, they are faeries creatures akin to the Sidhe, pixies or sprites. However they are the "darkside" of the faeries. 3) The moulder dwarves are mistaken, it is not elves, but malign earth spirits that are guiding them. These spirits are a physical manifestation of some of the Burrowers dreams, that has visited the moulder dwarves and corrupted them. 4) In the dark all elves are dark. The moulder dwarves have never really seen their teachers and slowly the belief that they are dark skinned has appeared (a belief their teachers decided to maintain in order to keep their true identity secret from the dwarves and hence the world. Perhaps an evil splinter group of Schattenalfen that has been diverted away from their homecaverns and corrupted by Thanatos, The Burrowers, an evil artifact or something like that). Regarding the arcade game I don't think the designers cared much about staying within the Mystaran Canon, they just used the Known World names and then made a computergame. Personally I prefer to keep the drow off Mystara, as I am kind of tired of the evil underground elves that seem to pop up in most fantasy. Lille My *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 22:11:55 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) >>And Teleport can solve all the create food/water stuff. >How? Food and water are logistical problems. A few teleport spells and you could supply the Glantrian army with food from Porto Escorpiao, if you are that way inclined... Vampires vs high level clerics. How many high level clerics? Ethengar is based around fighters, not clerics. I know that I would quail at the prospect of fighting a vampiric army. Something as simple as a few charms distributed to the invaders could put a few holes in their strategy. As for Glantri attacking Ethengar - I can't see how Glantri could do it. As a nation they are so divided. Presumably for a nation wide attack the Council of Princes would have to pass a vote. Given what it hints at in the Gazetteers this "Ethengar hatred" thing is limited only to a very few votes - ie Jaggar and his cronies. Most Princes would be against war, or at best neutral - and a look at the Glantrian governmental system reveals that a majority of princes is required to pass a decree. I cannot see such a majority ever happening. And I think that generally Glantri is a very insular country. They may slag off other nations a bit (although I'm not really sure if they even do that) but the impression I get of Glantri is that it is made up of isolated wizards in their towers who hang big Do Not Disturb signs on their door. With all the backstabbing there is more than enough fun and games in Glantri City without having to go to war! Concerning the Immortals - looking at WotI it seems that Ixion is willing to let the study of the Radiance continue (presumably, otherwise the War of Wrath would still be going on). I think that the Immotals are probably allowing the Brotherhood of Radiance to continue their work - certainly there will be a degree of support from Immortals of Energy (particularly Rafiel). And what about the Fellowship of the Star? They still support Glantri (presumably) having been won over in debate by Rad. I think the Immortals would like to see mortal study of the Radiance continue, so they can see some more Radiance Immortals around who can unlock the secrets of the Nucleus of the Spheres. Looking at the past, the Immortals are not like Gods - they don't place as much importance on their worshippers. (I believe from the Codex of the Immortals that it makes no odds if an Immortal has one worshipper on 1 million). Immortals have agendas that they want to see fulfilled - and it so happens that worshippers happen to be the "tool of choice". But if the Radiance is on the agenda of various Immortals, the Brotherhood of Radiance (ie Glantri) will receive their support - worshippers or not. After all, Glantri is aiding the Sphere of Energy. Ethengar is aiding only Entropy. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #238 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Thursday, April 23 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 239 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) [MYSTARA] - Take a Chill Pill Re: [MYSTARA] - Best module Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) [MYSTARA] - Ahem...Glantri, Ethengar, and others... Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri and disease... Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri and disease... Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) Re: [MYSTARA] - WoTI Lightning Zombies Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri and disease... [MYSTARA] - Maps Re:[MYSTARA] - Dark elves, Tylion, and Tylari [MYSTARA] - A Blackmoor question... Re:[MYSTARA] - Dark elves, Tylion, and Tylari Re: [MYSTARA] - A Blackmoor question... Re: [MYSTARA] - To Diego ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 14:20:12 +0200 (MET DST) From: Wolfgang Razen Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) SNIPP >We're talking about ETHENGARIAN clerics! And here some help clerics can do: >Create Water >Create Food >Raise Dead >Raise Dead Fully >Bless >Cure light Wounds >Cure heavy Wounds >Cure critical Wounds >Cureall >Cure Disease >Any more questions? You forgot: Sticks to Snakes (Especially nasty if cast after some Arrow-volleys, hehehe) Strike (onto experienced ones) Insect Swarm Animate Object - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- shadow@POOL.informatik.rwth-aachen-de | If you flee, you only die tiered - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 13:28:37 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Take a Chill Pill alright, calm down, calm down, alright (in an appropriate North of England accent). Like I said, I don't support Glantri particularly, as I primarily DM the Savage Coast. The only two KW nations that get involved in my campaign are Thyatis and Alphatia. But - I'm just being realistic. If its really down to it, just imagine if Ethengar tried to invade Cimmaron County, or Herath, or Eshu? Now that would be clear cut - bye bye, Ethengar... Now that is being childish. Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 08:51:34 EDT From: LandoTW Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Best module You know...I'm holding on of the ballots in my hand right now...and I gotta tell ya....the Mystara modules arent necessarily my most favorite ones. There are other modules that I had a blast playing back in the "good-ole days". To be specific, I'm looking at the Slavers Series (A1-A4), The Temple of Elemental Evil (T1-T4), the Desert Nomad Series (X4, X5, and X10), and lastly the Lendor Isle Series (L1 and L2) According to the ballot, these will be printed all together if they win the vote. I cant make up my mind as yet....its a tough choice...... I cant really cast my vote for B10 "Nights Dark Terror" as I have never seen it. Sorry if this goes against the MML grain, but there are other modules I'd like to see re-done. Al *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 09:02:57 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) At 09:30 PM 4/22/98 EDT, you wrote: >>Because the Glantrian people are trained from birth to hate clerics. When people see these guys in robes running about healing the sick, they are likely to jump to conclusio >> >How barbaric do you think Glantri is? They will see someone be healed and >throw him on a stake and burn him? I don't think so. If anyone questioned someone displaying this power it could be easily explained. How barbaric is anyone? Human beings can be extraordinarily cruel and idiotic when it comes to emotion. The people would burn the supposed "clerics" at the stake because they would "feel" what these people were doing was wrong. Mob rule...just like AD 30 at Golgotha... But it would be an interesting twist on the American Salem witch burnings I think... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 09:13:10 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) At 09:43 PM 4/22/98 EDT, you wrote: >>This isn't a >real disease. It's a magical one. And therefore, perhaps, even more nasty... It would be reasonable that it might be >contagious since some real world diseases are, but this disease is instilled from cleric to the victim. There is no passing on of the virus. If there were, >it would've been defined in the spell discription. I don't think so. It is a subtle use of the spell. Most of the spell descriptions in the game assume a use one a "player vs monster" basis. As such, what I describe is useless--unless our theoretical pc cleric wishes to sneak into a room, cause disease on the orc guard's food, and wait months for the cause and effect to do its job. >As for it's power, you think that a spell that could decimate an entire country is reasonably rated at 3rd level? We are not talking about instantaneous elimination. In fact, we are talking about infiltration of enemy lines, multiple castings on multiple herds, and waiting weeks or months for any significant result. I've never seen a fireball eliminate >millions of people in one shot. Of course not. And I never said cause disease could take out millions of people in one shot. And even if it were, what possible game >mechanics could you use for the spreading of your disease? The game mechanics are the DM saying, "Reports have come out of Glantri of a mysterious disease that has been running rampant in their counrty. Darokinians fear the disease will spread and have closed their northern borders." Think of cause >disease like a cancer. Would you willingly eat cancerous meat? It's difficult to get rid of and is by no means ccontagious. I disagree, depending on my purposes...I know I would not munch on a pc or make love to her if I knew she was infected with cause disease. I could see a 7th level (or quest) spell called spread plague bbeing created, That's fine too, if you want one spell that can cause disease over a wide area. but that's not what cause disease is. I disagree. Also, if it were, than >the reverse would be able to cure multiple diseases at once, which it can't. The reverse can only cure one problem at a time, just as the spell can only cause one case at a time. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 09:15:45 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) At 09:48 PM 4/22/98 EDT, you wrote: >< I don't think they often enter the cities. Besides, they don't resemble < clerics. >and neither do Alchemists..... >>Actually, there are non-magical physicians in my own version of Glantri. But they are far inferior to priests. >But the point is that you said people could jump to conclusions over seeing someone being healed. Physicians would be healers, so why wouldn't they be burned along with the Alchemists in your campaign? You are talking about a totally different visual effect. Case A: I have been brought up to distrust, even hate, power that heals and comes from a mystical source. I see a guy in robes healing someone without the use of herbs or bandages. My buddies and I gut the fellow. Case B: I have been brought up to distrust, even hate, power that heals and comes from a mystical source. I see a guy in robes take out a pouch with herbs and rub it on the wound. The wound does not heal immediately. Several days later the guy is better. I am happy. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 09:42:32 -0400 From: Daly Subject: [MYSTARA] - Ahem...Glantri, Ethengar, and others... I have really enjoyed the "theoretical war" debate that has been raging. Personally I still stand by the idea that neither can take complete victory over the other so war between the two is highly unlikely without some exterior cause. Now, what other countries are people interested in discussing? How about... Vestland vs Ostland Vestland may have decided that enough is enough. It is time to put an end to the piracy along the north coast. And perhaps there is some thought to increasing stabilization in the Yarldoms. Thyatis vs Karameikos The emperor sees his country disintegrating and concludes a swift attack on the former duchy may bring that area back under the empire's wing. Needed revenues will flow, opening up the possibility of bringing other former colonies back. Heldann vs Norwold Now, this one depends largely on how (or if!) you have run CM1. Within that module, the king is portrayed a bit wiser than he is in most later material. He realizes that his country is large and that he needs high level adventurers to help him run the place. He grants a large amount of autonomy to any 15th level and above people to aid him in governing. They are responsible for the defense of their own lands and providing the king with forces in times of war. Incidently, before I run the events of WotI, my campaign will have to go through major changes. I am going to contrive to have all the current characters move on to other parts (Some back in time to Blackmoor, others out in space in a joint expedition between Alphatia and Thyatis). Their heirs will be approaching their coming of age when disaster strikes. Alak Dool (now a lich) will come with a huge undead army and take the capital. I don't know what's going to happen after that... In any case, Norwold may be tough to do because of the multiple variations that could have resulted from the old Companion level modules. As good as that series was, I think it might be why the makers of Wrath decided to gut Norwold... Any other countries that you can think of for adversarial roles? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 10:08:44 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) >It would be reasonable that it might be cccontagious since some real world diseases are, but this disease is instilled >>from cleric to the victim. There is no passing on of the virus. If there wwere, >>it would've been defined in the spell discription. >I don't think so. It is a subtle use of the spell. You don't think it would be put in the spell discription? and subtle? Starting a plague would be a subtle use of the spell? >Most of the spell >descriptions in the game assume a use one a "player vs monster" basis. As such, what I describe is useless--unless our theoretical pc cleric wishes to sneak into a room, cause disease on the orc guard's food, and wait months for the cause and effect to do its job. This scenario is impossible. The spell description states that the spell must be cast on a living creature. Plus the disease kills it's victim in 2-24 days and it's obvious as to anything suffering under this condition, so the cattle plan wouldn't be feasible either. It would appear very sick during the first day of infection. >We are not talking about instantaneous elimination. In fact, we are talking about infiltration of enemy lines, multiple castings on multiple herds, and waiting weeks or months for any significant result. As i said, the disease is finished with it's victims in much shorter than "months" >Of course not. And I never said cause disease could take out millions of people in one shot. Then how many do you think will die from this spell? >>And even if it were, what possible game mechanics could you use for the spreading of your disease? >The game mechanics are the DM saying, "Reports have come out of Glantri of a mysterious disease that has been running rampant in their counrty. Darokinians fear the disease will spread and have closed their northern borders." Okay that's fine, but that has nothing to do with game mechanics. How would you calculate the death tolls? >Would you willingly eat cancerous meat? No, and neither would Glantrians. >I disagree, depending on my purposes...I know I would not munch on a pc or make love to her if I knew she was infected with cause disease. munch on a PC? Canabalise much lately? Plus, this isn't a STD. If it were, it would've been described as such. >>but that's not what cause disease is. >I disagree. How? You can't just add effects to the spell. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 10:41:42 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri and disease... Regarding Cause Disease: My statements stand. The crux of the argument is whether or not the disease caused by the spell is contagious. At this point it is up to the individual DM. I see no further point in arguing. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 17:04:06 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) On Thu, 23 Apr 1998, Daly wrote: >At 09:30 PM 4/22/98 EDT, you wrote: >>>Because the Glantrian people are trained from birth to hate clerics. When people see these guys in robes running about healing the sick, they are likely to jump to conclusio >> >>How barbaric do you think Glantri is? >They will see someone be healed and >>throw him on a stake and burn him? I don't think so. If anyone questioned someone displaying this power it could be easily explained. >How barbaric is anyone? Human beings can be extraordinarily cruel and idiotic when it comes to emotion. The people would burn the supposed "clerics" at the stake because they would "feel" what these people were doing was wrong. Mob rule...just like AD 30 at Golgotha... Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 13:50:14 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #239 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com But, Glantri is a rather civilized country. While, mobs probably could do some harm I think most cases would go to court. There, each case would be closely examined and the defendant woul be sentenced according to the law. Also, I dont see mages as parts of mobs. Mages are more individualistic. And Commoners will usually stay away from people in robes. (I dont remember the details of Glantrian law, but you are pretty stupid if you attack a mage, even if you dont get killed in the attempt of attacking him) >But it would be an interesting twist on the American Salem witch burnings I think... :) Håvard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 08:24:34 -0700 From: kender_slayer@juno.com (Scott Douglas) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri and disease... On Thu, 23 Apr 1998 10:41:42 -0400 Daly writes: RRegarding Cause Disease: >My statements stand. The crux of the argument is whether or not the disease caused by the spell is contagious. At this point it is up to the individual DM. I see no further point in arguing. I beg to differ. >From the DMG: "A normal disease is one that no matter how exotic or fantastic is caused and transmited in ways we normally understand-- germs mosquitos, rabid rats, etc. To that end, the disease would be treatable by normal methods in the real world. A magical disease, like rotting touch, is one that functions by some unexplainable magical property. As such is not curable by normal means." Using deductive logic, a magical disease that isn't cuarable by normal mean wouldn't be spread by normal means either. Most magical diseases that do spread are usually associated with curses (from what I know) and Cause Disease is not a curse. It even states in the spell description that Lycanthropy (a magical disease that spreads) cannot be caused from Cause Disease. Later, Scott Ritchie S.Ritchie@juno.com AOL IM: SD Ritchie Yahoo Pager: S_Ritchie ICQ: 10865595 _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 17:24:36 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) On Wed, 22 Apr 1998, The Athar wrote: >This is a stretch, but if it did work Glantri could lift the ban on clerics again. >> >Why *did* Glantri ban clerics? Is it just 'cause of competition or do they have a real reason? I dont know what you would characterize as a real reason. It was AFAIK to protect the interests of Glantrian nobility. This is actually the basis of all Glantrian laws. Glantrian Nobility equals mages, basically. Clerics represent a threat to mages monopoly of magic. Besides, becoming a powerful mage takes years of study while for clerics it is a matter of faith. Any uneducated commoner can theoretically get access to those powers. And the great school of magic is the basis of the Glantrian nobility system. Removing its position will result in a revolution. Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 10:37:21 -0500 From: "Cecil Cosman" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - WoTI Lightning Zombies >Well -- they were originally human, so their stats would be fairly easy to >figure out. WotI describes their advantages and weaknesses -- and they seem to have more advantages, so I would give them a hefty XP penalty to compensate. But unless their origins allow more of them to be created elsewhere, there is probably only one surviving lightning zombie -- the kid >that the party befriended. The rest were probably destroyed by the meteor. Okay, do you think they would have the ability to spellcast? The shield will animate anyone that dies within range. Wipe their memory (their soul is gone) but not their skills. (There is reference to one of the zombies retaining carpentry skills) So assume that one of the heros was a mage and he died in the quest only to be reanimated. Would they be able to cast spells? This could have hapened at any time really. All someone had to do was die within range of the shield If the zombie was controlled by a person in life then they would be controlled by that person in death but a wandering hero wouldn't nessecarily be bound to Lord Kazakk so he could have just wandered away seeking a heroic life still. So there is really no telling how many of them are wandering around. And who would notice if there was, aside from being hyperactive and having gray skin, the only real odd thing about them is the fact that they glow in the dark. Another thing, In the WoTI, the immortals have the ability to create a new species and most likely the new species will follow the immortal that created them. could the Lightning Zombies be that way with Benkender?, assuming they survive the destruction of the keep (either by meteors or pc's) Now I know that Nyx is the undead immortal and would have interest in the zombies, but who is to say that benkender wouldn't take care of them, or make more of them, set that sheild of his free and let it create what it will. Okay, Assume they in fact did leave the keep before it was destroyed and they where not destroyed earlier. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 11:37:50 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri and disease... At 08:24 AM 4/23/98 -0700, you wrote: >On Thu, 23 Apr 1998 10:41:42 -0400 Daly writes: RRRegarding Cause Disease: >>My statements stand. The crux of the argument is whether or not the disease caused by the spell is contagious. At this point it is up to the individual DM. I see no further point in arguing. >I beg to differ. >>From the DMG: >Using deductive logic, a magical disease that isn't cuarable by normal mean wouldn't be spread by normal means either. You are making a logical jump. Curing and spreading are two seperate things. I still say it is up to the DM. >Most magical diseases that do spread are usually associated with curses (from what I know) and Cause Disease is not a curse. It even states in the spell description that Lycanthropy (a magical disease that spreads) cannot be caused from Cause Disease. I would say if you are diseased by a priest, you are cursed. Using Lycanthropy as an analogy for every magical disease just does not work. Also, the nature of priestly magic comes from historical context. Sticks to Snakes is directly from the Old Testament as is Part Water. Plagues that were created in the Old Testament were real plagues. The locusts were real, the frogs were real. Again, this argument is pointless. No canonical source says one way or another. It is up to the individual DM. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 10:41:33 -0500 (CDT) From: Kurt Wiegel Subject: [MYSTARA] - Maps Hello out there Does anyone know where I can get a copy of or an image of the BIG map from the inside cover of the Masters Rulebooks of the OD&D set? I've been looking for it for a while. I realize that a lot of people don't like it or use it, but I do want to see it again. Thanks Kurt *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 18:03:33 +0200 (METDST) From: DM Subject: Re:[MYSTARA] - Dark elves, Tylion, and Tylari HI Everybody! It's me again (u thought u had gotten rid of me, uh? Well, next time try with a Disintegrate spell instead of a mere Geas... and who said having three legs and one arm is debilitating?) ;) At 15.23 22/04/98 -0400, Amaldis@concentric.net wrote: >In the Northern Reaches GAZ it says that the moulder dwarves learned a great deal of their black arts from dark elves. These elves are described as having dark skin, serving Entropic Immortals, and being masters of evil magic and the making of evil artifacts. Since there are no drow on Mystara(no source says there are drow on Mystara, though the Northern Reaches GAZ and an arcade game called D&D Tower of Doom imply that there are), who exactly are these elves? the answer's easy. If you take a look at GAZ7, at the end, you'll notice a realm (Outer Plane) called Svartalfheim: that's where the dark elves of legend come from. High Elves of northern pantheon live in Alfheim, and they're higher beings of goodness capable to wield incredible powers and repositary of great knowledge. Dark elves (Svartalven or Svartalfen) live in Svartalfheim, and they're obscure beings who revere entropic deities and meddle with forbidden lore and black magic. The Modrigswergs made a pact with them and were allowed to gain knowledge of ancient and life binding magic, but at a dear price: their soul became tainted and they were finally exiled from Rockhome... >Also, within Dawn of the Emporers there is a huge discrepancy when it talks about the reign of Tylion. According to some parts of it, Tylion was Emporer when Alphatia conquered Glantri, but elsewhere it says he became Emporer in the 20th century, taking the throne from his mother Tylari. Which is the truth? I don't remember this one sincererly. I know Tylion is Terari and he's Eriadna's father, and i know he was in charge at the beginning of tenth century... just go checking his birthdate and you'll get the answer (you know, sometimes mages can live for a veery long time....) ;) DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 18:10:56 +0200 (METDST) From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - A Blackmoor question... Hi! I've been working on a personal project involving the polymar race (from DDA2, Monstrous Compendium 2) and i was wondering: Thonia was north or south of Blackmoor according to DA modules? I don't wanna open again the debate "Where the heck is Blackmoor": i only need a simple straight answer based on DA modules. well, you might wonder how is this linked with polymars... eh eh.. well, i think u'll have to wait until i finish my article on that race and send it to the list. bye for now! DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 12:19:48 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re:[MYSTARA] - Dark elves, Tylion, and Tylari At 06:03 PM 4/23/98 +0200, you wrote: >>Also, within Dawn of the Emporers there is a huge discrepancy when it talks about the reign of Tylion. According to some parts of it, Tylion was Emporer when Alphatia conquered Glantri, but elsewhere it says he became Emporer in the 20th century, taking the throne from his mother Tylari. Which is the truth? >I don't remember this one sincererly. I know Tylion is Terari and he's Eriadna's father, and i know he was in charge at the beginning of tenth century... just go checking his birthdate and you'll get the answer (you know, sometimes mages can live for a veery long time....) ;) Not only that, Eriadna's father is Tylion IV! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 12:21:09 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Blackmoor question... At 06:10 PM 4/23/98 +0200, you wrote: >Hi! >I've been working on a personal project involving the polymar race (from DDA2, Monstrous Compendium 2) and i was wondering: Thonia was north or south of Blackmoor according to DA modules? I don't wanna open again the debate "Where the heck is Blackmoor": i only need a simple straight answer based on DA modules. >well, you might wonder how is this linked with polymars... eh eh.. well, i think u'll have to wait until i finish my article on that race and send it to the list. >bye for now! South. I can't wait to hear from you! By the way, I have spoken (via email) with Dave Arneson regarding the Egg of Coot. Tonight I will compile the discussion and post it to the list. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 10:49:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Diego Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - To Diego On Tue, 21 Apr 1998, Robert Fry wrote: >I'm impressed! Thanks, normally I am an observer but I couldn't help but comment. >I agree with pretty well everything you said. Especially the part about Luck. But it seemed that no one was really fighting Glantri's corner - the Khan is doing too good a PR job... Personally I think that whomever takes the offense will win a tactical victory, but neither side would or can win a complete victory. I weigh the battle in favor of the Ethies because the plains are harder to keep if one is not adapted to them and the dwarves hatred of the Glantrians, due to the years of infamy, leading to a volenteer force on top of what is already at the khans court. My guess is that within ten or twenty years the glantrians would drive the Ethies out of their territory with the death of the great khan. My original opinion still stands however. Personally I like the Karamekios. But that is just me. Vale, - -Diego *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #239 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 20:06:05 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #240 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Thursday, April 23 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 240 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Other adversaries... [MYSTARA] - Ban on clerics [MYSTARA] - Alchemists Healing People [MYSTARA] - Cause Disease Re: [MYSTARA] - Alchemists Healing People Re: [MYSTARA] - A Blackmoor question... Re: [MYSTARA] - A Blackmoor question... Re: [MYSTARA] - Ban on clerics Re: [MYSTARA] - Alchemists Healing People Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) Re: [MYSTARA] - Ahem...Glantri, Ethengar, and others... Re:[MYSTARA] - Dark elves, Tylion, and Tylari Re: [MYSTARA] - Other adversaries... [none] Re: [MYSTARA] - Petition to TSR re: Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Petition to TSR re: Mystara [MYSTARA] - Location Of Blackmoor [MYSTARA] - The Modules are Sold! Re: [MYSTARA] - A Blackmoor question... Re: [MYSTARA] - Other adversaries... [MYSTARA] - Glantry and Radiance Re: [MYSTARA] - Alchemists Healing People Re: [MYSTARA] - Cause Disease ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 18:28:31 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Other adversaries... Thyatis vs Karameikos... Interesting - could be the last kicks of a dying empire, but I rather hope not (I like Thyatis!). I think that there has been such a general slating of Thyatis lately that I think people forget what a powerful nation it is. And good from the point of view of running campaigns about it. Also Thyatis is not in such a bad way as people make out. It is 5 years after the War of Wrath - and look at the NACE. Alphatia sunk! Thyatis was merely hammered. Thyatis should really be in a better state than the NACE - and the NACE is becoming very powerful. I guess it depends on how Eusebius is running things. Thyatis has been quiet lately, so presumably he is consolidating the Empire, and help it get its act together. When he does, watch out! From Eusebius' description in the PWAs, he seems about as politically canny and ruthless as his old man. (Thincol ruled. Why did he die?) These Viking squabbles I don't really see as interesting (sorry!). Interesting moshes occur when you have a culture/technology clash. Thats why I enjoyed (am enjoying still!) the Ethengar/Glantri debate. I'm sure the Heldannic Knights could have an interesting war with just about any of their neighbours. To the Savage Coast (sorry KW lovers) I think that the Nimmurian conflict could be very interesting if fleshed out a bit. I was also going to have a big naval engagement with Bellayne/Vilaverde (Spanish Armada type stuff - but then I AM English... btw is it just me that thinks of Bellayne as a cross between England and Japan (go figure) :). And the Savage Baronies and the City States (Slagovich etc.) are all perfect sites for conflict. If anyone wants to start something going, I'm sure that I will participate as my usual stubborn self... Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 18:16:09 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Ban on clerics I the clerical ban in Glantri was to stop Immortals from interfering with (or discovering) the Radiance, and give Rads followers a monopoly on it. After all, the decision to ban them was called "the Light of Rad", I think. Perhaps I'm reading too much into the use of the word "light"... ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 18:47:32 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Alchemists Healing People In my campaign there is a PC henchman Alchemist - (who is also the Master of Wild Magic at the GSoM, as they havn't yet got a wild magic bomb shelter/class...). If she knocked up a swift healing potion/Frankenstein style resurrection, and helped out some poor Glantrian, I just cannot see her getting lynched. She is a mage! Everyone knows that in Glantri! I imagine other Alchemists are also prominent figures in Glantrian nobility (well they should be - they're all mid to high level mages). Glantrians dont hate healing, they hate clerics. Casting a clerical spell I presume involves beseeching the Immortals to help (By the power of Ixion may you be cleansed of disease!), rubbing holy symbols a lot and such. Glantrians hate this, not the healing. I'm sure that a necromancer could splint together bones and such (in the Complete Book of Necromancers they can, anyway), and they wouldn't get lynched for this. The act of healing isn't illegal in Glantri! Religion, however, is. And whats this thing about Glantrians being trained from birth to hate religion? The nobles may hate clerics (because religion has a tendency to stir up the oppressed mundanes) but i'm sure Joe Bloggs the baker doesn't really give a damn. The Followers of the Claymore probably represent a fair slice of mundane views, and they had priests (Sir Bruce, level 20 in AD+D! he must have had a few followers). As an aside, how about Glantrian alchemists making some esoteric poison, harmless to cattle but lethal to humans, and spreading this gunk over Ethengar? Or come to think of it some chemical like Agent Orange which the US used in Vietnam? Ethengar could become another desert. I don't think so either, but if you reckon Cause Disease is contagious I cannot see any problem with the above. Glantrian Alchemy basically creates any potion effect or any chemical compound the Alchemist can think of. How about some uranium to spread liberally all over the plains? Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 18:44:01 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Cause Disease One worthy comment has turned up on this subject (to think a comment on vampirism started it off.) It is up to the DM. But I for one would say it isn't contagious. If you say things like that - rewriting the spells - there are a lot more mage spells that could be rewritten slightly. It is just opening a real can of worms. Cleric spells are supposed to be Useful - useful being they don't kill people. Clerics raise people, heal people, divine things, bless armies, remove curses (and bestow them) and other Subtle Effects. The only reason cause disease exists is because it is the reverse of a curative spell (reverses are supposed to be used by evil casters in canon D+D). I think a clerical contagious disease should be at least level 6. Can a 7th level priest bring down a nation? I don't think so. If you do, fair enough. But if you think that, a 20th level mage should be able to do a damn sight more... Mages are supposed to be better spellcasters than clerics in general. Thats why clerics get to fight and wear armour and stuff, and mages don't. Game balance... There is a mage spell in a Dragon somewhere called crimson scourge (anyone who has seen Masque of the Red Death will know the sort of thing we are talking about here). It's level 5, and specifically designed for contagion. However, it still wouldn't raze a nation, or even do any more than kill a small village (and that is being very optimistic.) (I know this because in an "evil" campaign I played an insane evil necromancer for a while). Just offhand, a mage abuse. Dracologists could well be capable of learning draconic spells - anyone heard of firetrail? (level 4 elemental fire). A Flaemish Dracologist could easily justify having that in his spellbook. It's designed to set fire to small villages... I must confess I am a bit of a rules lawyer (in case anyone hadn't already noticed). Also, in my experience it has always been better to be stingy with arbitrating spell effects and so on. Believe me, say something like that cause disease thing and you may regret it later. But hey - any DM is GOD as far as his own Mystara is concerned. Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 14:02:22 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alchemists Healing People At 06:47 PM 4/23/98 +0100, you wrote: >In my campaign there is a PC henchman Alchemist - My comments on the Alchemical healing were basically the same as yours regarding my notion of contagious Cure Disease. Game balance. If you allow your Alchemists to be numerous and powerful enough to do anything a cleric can do, then it completely removes any use for clerics. Glantri, in depriving itself of one resource, should suffer for it. Yes, the ruling class is willing to deal with the results because they have their own agenda. But a good plague or two should hurt Glantri pretty bad. Else I don't really see the point in banning clerics at all... As for Cause Disease, I still say the contagion ability does not alter balance. One cleric cannot significantly infect anything. But all the nastier clerics on Ethengar's side, working together, can have nasty results. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 15:33:25 EDT From: Duncan TKD Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Blackmoor question... I believe Blackmoor was at one of the "now" poles of Mystara. Remember there was a great alignment of the axis during the great rain of fire. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 15:34:38 EDT From: Duncan TKD Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Blackmoor question... I believe that the present location of Blackmoor would be at one of the Mystaran Poles. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 15:44:19 EDT From: Duncan TKD Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ban on clerics Perhaps one of the reasons that they hate Clerics is that they just don't understand where the Clerics magic comes from. A mages magic is more like science and hence they can understand how it works. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 15:46:46 EDT From: Duncan TKD Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alchemists Healing People In a back issue of Dragon mag. there was a mage spell that could suppossedly cure disesas. All it really did was remove the symptoms and the receipient still had the horrid dissease. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 21:59:42 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) At 09.15 23/04/98 -0400, Daly wrote: >At 09:48 PM 4/22/98 EDT, you wrote: >>But the point is that you said people could jump to conclusions over seeing someone being healed. Physicians would be healers, so why wouldn't they be burned along with the Alchemists in your campaign? >You are talking about a totally different visual effect. >Case A: I have been brought up to distrust, even hate, power that heals and comes from a mystical source. I see a guy in robes healing someone without the use of herbs or bandages. My buddies and I gut the fellow. Let's see. So, besides clerics, you're also going to kill (in random order): mages using heal or wish, common people using a healing potion, mystics using gentle touch, unarmored paladins using a clerical healing spell... (list is not complete) >Case B: I have been brought up to distrust, even hate, power that heals and comes from a mystical source. I see a guy in robes take out a pouch with herbs and rub it on the wound. The wound does not heal immediately. Several days later the guy is better. I am happy. So you're not going to kill a cunning cleric that uses his healing skills instead of his spells... BTW: why is everyone dressed in robes in your campaign? :-) - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 21:51:16 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) At 00.43 23/04/98 EDT, Kaviyd wrote: >No, they are not considered Clerics -- I suppose their power is not granted by Immortals, so they are okay. Can you distinguish a mystic from a cleric at first sight? I doubt it... >I would resort to a solution given in the "Elves of Alfheim" gazetteer -- in that >supplement Elves can learn some Priest spells (including Cure Light Wounds and Cure Disease) as Mage spells. Maybe some Human Mages in Glantri should have the same ability. Mmhh... this would remove most of Glantrian "no-clerics" feeling. Glantri is a dangerous land also because there're no clerics to heal/raise you. >Also, I would imagine that Glantrian alchemists do a brisk business in healing potions. Me too. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 21:48:08 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) At 21.06 22/04/98 -0400, Daly wrote: >At 12:06 AM 4/23/98 +0200, you wrote: >>So what about the Mystics of Lhasa? Are they goimg to be stoned to death when they enter a Glantrian city? >I don't think they often enter the cities. Besides, they don't resemble clerics. And what do clerics look like? Plate mail, shield and mace? Purple robe and walking stick? Besides, why do you think mystics rarely enter the cities? Last thing: if mystics don't resemble clerics, why should alchemist do? Glantrian alchemist even have a blue star on their forefront (check GAZ3), so it's impossible to mistake them for clerics. >Actually, there are non-magical physicians in my own version of Glantri. But they are far inferior to priests. And aren't they mistaken for clerics? - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 17:54:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ahem...Glantri, Ethengar, and others... At 09:42 AM 4/23/98 -0400, you wrote: >I have really enjoyed the "theoretical war" debate that has been raging. Personally I still stand by the idea that neither can take complete victory over the other so war between the two is highly unlikely without some exterior cause. To add to this, why don't the people who feel so strongly about this debate actually play out the war themselves using War Machine or Battlesystem rules and see what happens? Use whatever modifiers apply. When you're done, you'll know who would win. >Thyatis vs Karameikos >The emperor sees his country disintegrating and concludes a swift attack on the former duchy may bring that area back under the empire's wing. Needed Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 20:06:05 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #240 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com >revenues will flow, opening up the possibility of bringing other former colonies back. He'll have to go through the Dymrak forest, with three clans of elves who recently immigrated from Alfheim. I don't remember which clans they were, but they'll certainly help defend their new home. Then there's the Order of the Griffon. We'll fight to the death to defend our home from the Thyatians. Then there's the new School of Magecraft, including its leader, Master Terari, who is equal to any mage Thyatis may have. The Karamekian armies may not be too numerous, but they will also fight against any invaders. Finally, he'll have to worry about the many humanoids still inhabiting the Karamekian wilderness. They'll pester any army, even the Thyatians. Karameikos will always be free! Actually, this scenario makes me think of the War of 1812 (which Canada won). The Americans decided that while Britain was occupied with that Napoleon guy, they would 'free' the colonists living in British North America, and invaded. Then they found out that the colonists didn't want to be free; most of them had left the American colonies because they wanted to remain under British rule. So the Americans didn't get anything, and Canada got a lot of pride in our own land and our people. There's a lot of historical explanation to go along with that, but I won't bore you with it now. So Karameikos and Thyatis could be a similar incident; the Thyatians would think that the Karamekians of Thyatian descent would help them in reclaming the 'colony'. Then the Thyatian Karamekians would surprise them by fighting them alongside the Traladaran Karamekians. Eventually Thyatis would give up. >Any other countries that you can think of for adversarial roles? How about Darokin and Sind? I'm sure there some bad feeling left there, at least in Sind. The Sindians might come back if the Master is still around. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 17:58:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re:[MYSTARA] - Dark elves, Tylion, and Tylari At 06:03 PM 4/23/98 +0200, you wrote: >>Also, within Dawn of the Emporers there is a huge discrepancy when it talks about the reign of Tylion. According to some parts of it, Tylion was Emporer when Alphatia conquered Glantri, but elsewhere it says he became Emporer in the 20th century, taking the throne from his mother Tylari. Which is the truth? >I don't remember this one sincererly. I know Tylion is Terari and he's Eriadna's father, and i know he was in charge at the beginning of tenth century... just go checking his birthdate and you'll get the answer (you know, sometimes mages can live for a veery long time....) ;) Master Terari was Tylion IV. That's the Fourth. That means there were three other Tylions before him who were Emperor. So one of them was Emperor when Alphatia conquered Glantri. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 18:03:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Other adversaries... At 06:28 PM 4/23/98 +0100, you wrote: >Thyatis vs Karameikos... Interesting - could be the last kicks of a dying empire, but I rather hope not (I like Thyatis!). I think that there has been such a general slating of Thyatis lately that I think people forget what a powerful nation it is. And good from the point of view of running campaigns about it. >Also Thyatis is not in such a bad way as people make out. It is 5 years after the War of Wrath - and look at the NACE. Alphatia sunk! Thyatis was merely hammered. Thyatis should really be in a better state than the NACE - and the NACE is becoming very powerful. >I guess it depends on how Eusebius is running things. Thyatis has been quiet lately, so presumably he is consolidating the Empire, and help it get its act together. When he does, watch out! From Eusebius' description in the PWAs, he seems about as politically canny and ruthless as his old man. ((Thincol ruled. Why did he die?) Thincol was cursed by Vanya when he decided to give up the war against Alphatia. She reversed the potions of Longevity he had taken, so he reverted to his natural age which was about seventy-five or so. He died of old age, because the curse couldn't be lifted by mortal clerics. Another reason why Thyatis wouldn't conquer Karameikos: the Western Defense League. Sure, Thyatis could probably take out Karameikos (but it wouldn't be easy!). But can they also take on the Five Shires, Darokin, Rockhome, and Ylaruam at the same time? I don't think so. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 18:16:41 -0400 From: Daly Subject: [none] What follows is an "ediscussion" I had with Dave Arneson. I would strongly suggest, if you are interested in seeing the 10-level superdungeon, that you email Jon Pickens I have reconstructed the messages so they read as a "Question/Answer" list. Q: Can you tell me when the product will come out? A: Well you are gong to hate this but no. You'll have to wait. Send WOTC/TSR hate mail about being so slow. Q: This does not mean talks have stalled? A: Talks are in hiatus until GenCon probably. Q: Can you describe the setting to me at all? A: I will say that the Northern swamps are quite primeval and full of dinosaurs. - - I will also say that the 'mother' Egg's offspring at birth teleport far distances. - - Once there the little cuties land they eat magic to grow and survive. Note: 'She' breeds at unknown intervals (years). Q: Can you tell me anything else about the egg? A: - That mamma eats offspring that intrude upon 'her' territory. - - That 'mom' hoards here ill-gotten magic for unknown reasons. - - That followers of the EGG wear medallions that absorb varying levels of magic cast at them. - - That the EGG's MUs can use the magic thus captured if done within 24-hours. In ALL other situations the magic is absorbed by the EGG. After some twenty years how big and powerful is the EGG? Guess? You know about the EGG's sense of humor? Q: Are these some of the monstrosities that helped destroy Blackmoor? A: Well the odd critters had to come from some where didn't they. Blackmoor has only been destroyed by TSR. Otherwise it is doing remarkable well. (note: I then explained where I was coming from on that question. That I was asking regarding "Mystara Blackmoor") Q: I heard a rumor about the "true" origin of the Egg by the way...is she patterned after a real life person? A: The EGG bears no resemblance to any person living or dead. The EGG is an 'it'. And not one E. Gary Gygax as rumored. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 00:25:21 +0200 From: Peter Balazs Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Petition to TSR re: Mystara Hi! Sorry, I now have really no time to read the list, so I will not write anything! And I just found an old mail, I wanted to send: For the petition: Peter Balazs, Wurlitzerg. 37/12, A-1160 VIENNA, Austria, Europe Walter Haberl, Braeuhausgasse 52/18 A-1050 Vienna Austria/Europe Sorry, but all my other friedns didn´t think that this petition is a good idea or will work. (I hope that it´s not too late!) ************************************************************ Peter "Mr. XXL" Balazs Wurlitzerg. 37/12 1160 Wien a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs ************************************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 19:11:19 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Petition to TSR re: Mystara Thank you for your vote of confidence. I disagree with your friends. I believe we have a shot at this! At 12:25 AM 4/24/98 +0200, you wrote: >Hi! >Sorry, I now have really no time to read the list, so I will not write anything! >And I just found an old mail, I wanted to send: >For the petition: >Peter Balazs, Wurlitzerg. 37/12, A-1160 VIENNA, Austria, Europe Walter Haberl, Braeuhausgasse 52/18 A-1050 Vienna Austria/Europe >Sorry, but all my other friedns didn´t think that this petition is a good idea or will work. (I hope that it´s not too late!) >************************************************************ >Peter "Mr. XXL" Balazs >Wurlitzerg. 37/12 >1160 Wien >a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at >http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs >************************************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 19:20:40 +0000 From: warlock@twave.net Subject: [MYSTARA] - Location Of Blackmoor A new member to the list and a player of D&, AD&D and other RPG's for the last twenty + years. I even have a copy of the original Blackmoor book ( and the Greyhawk). Anyway, from my understanding, I thought that the Badlands were originally where Blackmoor was. I think I read that in the Wrath of the Immortals boxed set. I'll have to check it out later. It was mentioned in that book. My memory fails me alot here lately. Thanks for the time. Warlock *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 17:30:39 -0600 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Modules are Sold! Hey, Damn, I really should have run that as an auction. I can't believe the overwhelming response I had to my offer; I had to use a d20 to make the final decision. I was originally gonna charge $40, but didn't think anyone would want to pay that... :) The modules will soon be sent off to Denamrk, into the hands of Sune Kloppenborg Jeppesen, which means I get my experience with overseas shipping. Thanks to all that showed interest. Sorry I didn't have more stuff. A bit of a teaser: the same friend that sold me the modules also wants to get rid of his Gazetteers, and I believe he has all of them (Including DotE), except Alfheim, which I bought from him long ago. I will probably sell them for him here, and I expect the price to be fairly low (like 50 bucks or so). The moment those become available, I'll let you know. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com ICQ #4253672 "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 19:47:03 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Blackmoor question... << Thonia was north or south of Blackmoor according to DA modules? >> Thonia was south of Blackmore. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 19:50:47 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Other adversaries... << Thyatis vs Karameikos... Interesting - could be the last kicks of a dying empire, but I rather hope not (I like Thyatis!). I think that there has been such a general slating of Thyatis lately that I think people forget what a powerful nation it is. >> I love Thyatis too, but it makes me think of Elvis a lot unfortunetly. It was incredible in its prime, but now it's getting disgusting and almost sad to watch as this nation is slowly dying. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 20:55:09 -0300 From: edu@giga.com.ar Subject: [MYSTARA] - Glantry and Radiance What's the Radiance? Is there any connction with Blackmoor? Thanks, Umil The Mage *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 19:54:29 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alchemists Healing People << Glantrian Alchemy basically creates any potion effect or any chemical compound the Alchemist can think of. How about some uranium to spread liberally all over the plains? >> Which is another reason why Alchemists wouldn't be mistaken for clerics. They wear robes, don't show any holy symbols, don't shout to thier deity when casting the spell, and the effects can all be explained through the chemical compounds that they use to cast the spells. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 20:05:18 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Cause Disease >One worthy comment has turned up on this subject (to think a comment on vampirism started it off.) It is up to the DM. Right. We all know that the final word is up to the DM, but that has been an excuse to end many arguments on topics. Most of the time it is a just reason, but under this arguement it seems like one way, you are going by spell discription; the other way, you aren't. It just seems clear as day to me. I mean, the spell doesn't say the victim of cause disease becomes pregnant regardless of sex, but going by the "Well, it doesn't say it can't" rules, then this would be possible. Of course that is an exageration, but i hope it proves my point. >But I for one would say it isn't contagious. If you say things like that - rewriting the spells - there are a lot more mage spells that could be rewritten slightly. It is just opening a real can of worms. Exactly. >Cleric spells are supposed to be Useful - useful being they don't kill people. Clerics raise people, heal people, divine things, bless armies, remove curses (and bestow them) and other Subtle Effects. The only reason cause disease exists is because it is the reverse of a curative spell (reverses are supposed to be used by evil casters in canon D+D). The only other way i could see them being used, would be by a cleric that was to teach someone a lesson, with all the intentions of reverseing the spell within an hour or two (Okay, so maybe i was the victim of this once). >But hey - any DM is GOD as far as his own Mystara is concerned. True, but we all have to remember that when discussing canon issues we have to stick as close to the rulebooks as possible, or all arguments turn to fluff. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #240 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, April 24 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 241 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alchemists Healing People Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) Re: [MYSTARA] - Cause Disease Re: [MYSTARA] - Ahem...Glantri, Ethengar, and others... Re: [MYSTARA] - Cause Disease Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) [MYSTARA] - Re: Alphatia . . .GONE! Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alchemists Healing People [MYSTARA] - Ispans . . . and the roaring 9th century Re:[MYSTARA] - Dark elves, Tylion, and Tylari Re: [MYSTARA] - Ahem...Glantri, Ethengar, and others... Re: [MYSTARA] - Cause Disease Re: [MYSTARA] - Ispans . . . and the roaring 9th century Re: [MYSTARA] - Ahem...Glantri, Ethengar, and others... Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) [MYSTARA] - Polymar: Shadow Legacy (Part 1/3) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 20:14:07 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alchemists Healing People >If you allow your Alchemists to be numerous and powerful enough to do anything a >cleric can do, then it completely removes any use for clerics. Considering that this is a weakness of Glantri, would it not be feasible to think some would like to strengthen the problem? >Glantri, in >depriving itself of one resource, should suffer for it. Yes, the ruling class is willing to deal with the results because they have their own agenda. But a good plague or two should hurt Glantri pretty bad. Else I don't really see the point in banning clerics at all... They do suffer. They have no Immortals looking over them. They deprive themselves of many immigrants which could benefit the coutry. They also suffer from haveing a much more difficult time healing themselves. Alchemists exist, but are very rare in Glantri. It's helpfull, but it's not anything like a religious country. >As for Cause Disease, I still say the contagion ability does not alter balance. One cleric cannot significantly infect anything. But that's not what you've said in earlier posts. You stated that Cause Disease cast on a cattle would spread or that casting on food would allow it to spread. >But all the >nastier clerics on Ethengar's side, working together, can have nasty results. Okay, this could be true, but to what exactly are you referring to? What specifically would they all do together? This is the part I don't understand. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 20:22:04 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) >Case A: I have been brought up to distrust, even hate, power that heals and comes from a mystical source. I see a guy in robes healing someone without the use of herbs or bandages. My buddies and I gut the fellow. Okay, first off I'd say you aren't a Glantrian, because no one preaches of the gutting of priests or the hate of priests in the first place. Even if a true priest was seen in Glantri, others would be more curious than anything as to why the priest was there, in no way would they brandish the good 'ol Claymore and start chopping heads. >Case B: I have been brought up to distrust, even hate, power that heals and comes from a mystical source. I see a guy in robes take out a pouch with herbs and rub it on the wound. The wound does not heal immediately. Several days later the guy is better. I am happy. Okay, let's see. You're still not from Glantri, and the cleric merely rolled a one on the dice. Plus, i hope you have more of a life than to follow this guy around for several days and watch the wound slowly disappear. >BTW: why is everyone dressed in robes in your campaign? :-) It's chilli in Glantri? - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 20:30:19 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Cause Disease At 08:05 PM 4/23/98 EDT, you wrote: >>One worthy comment has turned up on this subject (to think a comment on vampirism started it off.) It is up to the DM. >Right. We all know that the final word is up to the DM, but that has been an excuse to end many arguments on topics. Most of the time it is a just reason, but under this arguement it seems like one way, you are going by spell discription; the other way, you aren't. It just seems clear as day to me. I mean, the spell doesn't say the victim of cause disease becomes pregnant regardless of sex, but going by the "Well, it doesn't say it can't" rules, then this would be possible. What?? If you are going to argue a point, at least stick to the subject! Pregnancy is not a disease!! Of course that is an exageration, but i hope it pproves my point. It does not have anything to do with the argument. >>But I for one would say it isn't contagious. If you say things like that - rewriting the spells - there are a lot more mage spells that could be >>rewritten slightly. It is just opening a real can of worms. >Exactly. As I said before it is not rewriting. It is DM judgement on something that is not COVERED by the rules. >>Cleric spells are supposed to be Useful - useful being they don't kill people. Depends on the cleric, alignment, and faith. Clerics raise people, heal people, divine things, bless armies, rrremove curses (and bestow them) and other Subtle Effects. The only reason cause disease exists is because it is the reverse of a curative spell (reverses are supposed to be used by evil casters in canon D+D). >The only other way i could see them being used, would be by a cleric that was to teach someone a lesson, with all the intentions of reverseing the spell within an hour or two (Okay, so maybe i was the victim of this once). I cannot even see this... >>But hey - any DM is GOD as far as his own Mystara is concerned. >True, but we all have to remember that when discussing canon issues we have to >stick as close to the rulebooks as possible, or all arguments turn to fluff. I have not departed from the rulebooks. But look, as I said, it depends on how you as an individual DM interpret the spell. I am not going to argue this point any further. (all cheer!) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 20:34:40 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ahem...Glantri, Ethengar, and others... <> >>>Jaggar's 50+ golems would be >>>able to rip right through the armies. >>Where did he get 50+ golems? >from Herr Rolf von Graustein >The actual number is 83 golems. >Then there is >16 mechanical magens, >14 manikins >and 10 living statues. >These numbers are accurate up to 1013AC. I really think that the magical creations of Jaggar would be all that's needed. I'm surprised no one responded to Criptonite's tallied up post of Jaggar's little friends. Plus, let us not forget about his trained war wizards, or the fact that he could transform into that sick dragon form, not to mention that sweet lil pegasus he rides on. I think Jaggar's Principality alone could take Ethengar to be honest with you. That's the main reason as to why I wouldn't waste my time in playing it out. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 22:12:10 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Cause Disease >Right. We all know that the final word is up to the DM, but that has been an excuse to end many arguments on topics. Most of the time it is a just reason, >but under this arguement it seems like one way, you are going by spell discription; the other way, you aren't. It just seems clear as day to me. I mean, the spell doesn't say the victim of cause disease becomes pregnant regardless of sex, but going by the "Well, it doesn't say it can't" rules, then this would be possible. What?? If you are going to argue a point, at least stick to the subject! Pregnancy is not a disease!! >As I said before it is not rewriting. It is DM judgement on something that is not COVERED by the rules. Okay well it was an analogy, i guess you didn't get it. What i'm saying is that you can't add to the spell simply because the book didn't say "It can't spread". Obviously if this was an effect of the spell, it would be written as such. They spell only does what it says. It doesn't do what it doesn't say. And it doesn't say the disease can spread. Is that a little more clear for you? >>But hey - any DM is GOD as far as his own Mystara is concerned. >True, but we all have to remember that when discussing canon issues we have to >stick as close to the rulebooks as possible, or all arguments turn to fluff. >I have not departed from the rulebooks. Really? Then where in the rulebooks does it state any part of your argument. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 22:14:57 -0400 From: robertn Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) Inconu wrote: >>Because the Glantrian people are trained from birth to hate clerics. When people see these guys in robes running about healing the sick, they are likely to jump to conclusio >> >How barbaric do you think Glantri is? They will see someone be healed and throw him on a stake and burn him? I don't think so. If anyone questioned someone displaying this power it could be easily explained. >-Inconu >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. do not send this anymore unsubscribe mystara-1 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 23:59:50 EDT From: BoBo II Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Alphatia . . .GONE! In a message dated 4/22/98 11:57:12 PM, you wrote: <> Yeah! How would some of these other cultures, from the advanced to the primitive react to the Utter Distruction Of A Continent. Whats worse, most of the world will only hear parts of the story libarally mixed with rumors and mistakes. Can folks come up with good country/race reactions to the destruction of one of the worlds biggest players? Doomsday cults? Other nation's fear of the Thyatian/Glantrian/Heldannic "Superweapon? . . . how about a Glantrian religious groundswell in the face of this display of divine power(not to mention the Crator) . . . Ideas folks? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 00:10:54 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) In a message dated 98-04-23 17:04:42 EDT, brizio@lunet.it writes: >So you're not going to kill a cunning cleric that uses his healing skills iinstead of his spells... If a cleric does not cast Priest spells, turn undead, or preach about his patron Immortal, then who would know he is a cleric? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 00:10:55 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) In a message dated 98-04-23 17:06:35 EDT, brizio@lunet.it writes: >Mmhh... this would remove most of Glantrian "no-clerics" feeling. GGlantri is a dangerous land also because there're no clerics to heal/raise you. It is still a very dangerous place even if you give wizards those healing spells. Remember that they receive them at higher levels than Clerics. For example, "Cure Light Wounds" is a third level spell that is available only to wizards of level 5+. Each spell slot used for this spell requires giving up a useful combat spell such as "Fireball". So given the relative rarity of wizards of level 5+ who learn healing spells vs. that of clerics in other nations, Glantrians would still be at a major disadvantage in terms of healing magic. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 00:10:53 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) In a message dated 98-04-23 17:04:42 EDT, brizio@lunet.it writes: >Let's see. So, besides clerics, you're also going to kill (in random oorder): mages using heal or wish, common people using a healing potion, mystics using gentle touch, unarmored paladins using a clerical healing spell... (list is not complete) If we go by the theory that what they hate is use of powers granted by the Immortals, then only the Paladin should be in trouble -- the others should all be okay, with the Mystic being slightly iffy. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 00:16:11 EDT From: BoBo II Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alchemists Healing People In a message dated 4/23/98 1:17:13 PM, you wrote: << But a good plague or two should hurt Glantri pretty bad. >> And has! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 01:38:14 EDT From: BoBo II Subject: [MYSTARA] - Ispans . . . and the roaring 9th century Found the following on the Unoffical Mystaran timeline on the web (thanks Daniel): "902 AC: The Barony of Narvaez is founded along the Savage Coast by an expedition of Ispan people from the distant Thyatian Empire. Narvaez claims a great deal of land, from the Claw Peninsula to the Bay of the Siren (Baia da Sereia), including land already occupied by human, elven, dwarven, and tortle inhabitants. (RS)" Okay RS and Thyatian fans/experts out there, who were these folks, where in the empire do they come from, where are they in the post-Wrath thyatis, and when did they influence the Belcadiz elves (or vis versa). Thanks, BoBoII PS: take a look at this timeline and tell me that a campaign set in the 800's wouldn't be a lot of fun. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 10:34:17 +0000 (GMT) From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re:[MYSTARA] - Dark elves, Tylion, and Tylari >>I don't remember this one sincererly. I know Tylion is Terari and he's Eriadna's father, and i know he was in charge at the beginning of tenth century... just go checking his birthdate and you'll get the answer (you know, sometimes mages can live for a veery long time....) ;) >Master Terari was Tylion IV. That's the Fourth. That means there were three other Tylions before him who were Emperor. So one of them was Emperor when Alphatia conquered Glantri. Yup, I'd rekon that would be it all right, although it might be interesting if he was the one who lost Glantri. Perhaps his helping the Glantrian "assasins" was due to some guilt over sending a maniac liek Halzunthram against their country? Since losing the war against Thyatis he could have been trying to atone for several centuries of mistakes. Of course when these same people he helped turn around and Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 09:03:54 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #241 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com destroy Aasla he'll be much more wary of them, perhaps returning to thinking of the Glantrians as barbaric Flaemish. Then later if he finds out that they were responsible for the destrcution of Alphatia he could start covert operations from Karameikos? Just some ideas, I don't know if Tylion would turn away from his current "redeeming, nice guy" personality. gordon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 10:34:17 +0000 (GMT) From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ahem...Glantri, Ethengar, and others... >At 09:42 AM 4/23/98 -0400, you wrote: >>I have really enjoyed the "theoretical war" debate that has been raging. Personally I still stand by the idea that neither can take complete victory over the other so war between the two is highly unlikely without some exterior cause. >To add to this, why don't the people who feel so strongly about this debate actually play out the war themselves using War Machine or Battlesystem rules and see what happens? Use whatever modifiers apply. When you're done, you'll know who would win. A lot of it depends on how you view the two countries. Even if everyone is using the same sourcebooks and the same stats, there's a whole load of "what if" questions that depend on the DM. Like, how good is the training that the Glantrian Army get? How many alchemists are there in Glantri and how many would be available with potions of healing? Would Jaggar turn into the Star Dragon and bring a couple of huge gold dragons to the fight? Is Volospin secretly the ruler of he elemental plane of air and could open up a gate and pretty much blow the horse warriors away? Are the Fists of Khan, Followers of Claymore, (werewolves?) going to seize this moment to rebel? I think it can easily go either way depending on the DM. Myself I would have the Ethengarians the better numbered but the Glantrians better "equipped", soley because it would allow my PC's to fight against huge odds and win! Depends on the story too... (Btw, Alchemists in Glantri have their own guild, their own tower and blue star tatoo's on their forehead. They're a well known group in the City, and people wouldn't mistake them for clerics. Well, that's my interpretation. Again, someone else might have a different one which would affect a war situation.) >>Thyatis vs Karameikos >>The emperor sees his country disintegrating and concludes a swift attack on the former duchy may bring that area back under the empire's wing. Needed revenues will flow, opening up the possibility of bringing other former colonies back. >He'll have to go through the Dymrak forest, with three clans of elves who recently immigrated from Alfheim. I don't remember which clans they were, but they'll certainly help defend their new home. Then there's the Order of the Griffon. We'll fight to the death to defend our home from the Thyatians. Then there's the new School of Magecraft, including its leader, Master Terari, who is equal to any mage Thyatis may have. The Karamekian armies may not be too numerous, but they will also fight against any invaders. Finally, he'll have to worry about the many humanoids still inhabiting the Karamekian wilderness. They'll pester any army, even the Thyatians. >Karameikos will always be free! I'm actually thinking of doing something like this IMC where Thyatis attacks but is beaten back, and perhaps eeven falls to pieces because of it. Internal politics can destroy an empire when no army could. Might be interesting, still haven't decided yet though... gordon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 10:34:17 +0000 (GMT) From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Cause Disease >It does not have anything to do with the argument. Too much argument! Run away! Run away! >But look, as I said, it depends on how you as an individual DM interpret the spell. I am not going to argue this point any further. >(all cheer!) Hurrah! :) :) (glantri vs ethengar, cause disease, canon vs non-canon...some of these topics will just run and run and run...not that that's nesecarily a bad thing...) gordon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 07:55:49 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ispans . . . and the roaring 9th century Well that is simple! They are Ispan Thyatians! :) At 01:38 AM 4/24/98 EDT, you wrote: >Found the following on the Unoffical Mystaran timeline on the web (thanks Daniel): >"902 AC: The Barony of Narvaez is founded along the Savage Coast by an expedition of Ispan people from the distant Thyatian Empire. Narvaez claims a great deal of land, from the Claw Peninsula to the Bay of the Siren (Baia da Sereia), including land already occupied by human, elven, dwarven, and tortle inhabitants. (RS)" >Okay RS and Thyatian fans/experts out there, who were these folks, where in the empire do they come from, where are they in the post-Wrath thyatis, and when did they influence the Belcadiz elves (or vis versa). >Thanks, >BoBoII >PS: take a look at this timeline and tell me that a campaign set in the 800's >wouldn't be a lot of fun. >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 13:35:11 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ahem...Glantri, Ethengar, and others... At 10.34 24/04/98 +0000, Gordon McCormick wrote: >(Btw, Alchemists in Glantri have their own guild, their own tower and blue star tatoo's on their forehead. They're a well known group in the City, and people wouldn't mistake them for clerics. Finally someone pointed that out :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 14:28:59 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) At 00.10 24/04/98 EDT, Kaviyd wrote: >If a cleric does not cast Priest spells, turn undead, or preach about his patron Immortal, then who would know he is a cleric? That was exactly my point: you cannot tell a cleric just looking at how he's dressed or his (arcane or mundane) healing skills. Remember, this discussion started when someone (I think it was Daly) wrote that alchemist who heal sick people may be burnt at the stake for being clerics because the Glantrian people are trained from birth to hate clerics. When people see these guys in robes running about healing the sick, they are likely to jump to conclusions. >>Let's see. So, besides clerics, you're also going to kill (in random ooorder): mages using heal or wish, common people using a healing potion, mystics using gentle touch, unarmored paladins using a clerical healing spell... (list is not complete) >If we go by the theory that what they hate is use of powers granted by the Immortals, then only the Paladin should be in trouble -- the others should all be okay, with the Mystic being slightly iffy. Let's suppose you're a glantrian commoner. How do you discern someone that uses powers granted by the Immortals from someone who doesn't? BTW: Treekeper magic is granted by Ilsundal, an Immortal, but it's probably not casted differently from standard elf MU spells, so how can you tell if that power is granted by Immortals or not? - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 08:50:38 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) At 02:28 PM 4/24/98 +0200, you wrote: >At 00.10 24/04/98 EDT, Kaviyd wrote: >>If a cleric does not cast Priest spells, turn undead, or preach about his patron Immortal, then who would know he is a cleric? >That was exactly my point: you cannot tell a cleric just looking at how he's dressed or his (arcane or mundane) healing skills. >Remember, this discussion started when someone (I think it was Daly) wrote that >alchemist who heal sick people may be burnt at the stake for being clerics because the Glantrian people are trained from birth to hate clerics. When people see these guys in robes running about healing the sick, they are likely to jump to conclusions. Actually the discussion started when someone suggested that alchemists could simply replace clerics in Glantri. My only point is that alchemists cannot replace clerics in Glantri, else there is no point in banning them. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 13:58:33 +0000 (GMT) From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) >At 02:28 PM 4/24/98 +0200, Daly wrote: >Actually the discussion started when someone suggested that alchemists could simply replace clerics in Glantri. My only point is that alchemists cannot replace clerics in Glantri, else there is no point in banning them. I presume you mean from a gaming point of view there would be no point in banning them. From an in-world point of view there certainly is a reason to ban clerics and not alchemists. Yup, I'd agree that alchemists cannot do all that a cleric can. A few potions of healing are nothing compared to the power of a high level (or even low level) cleric. And the Alchemists can't raise the dead either. (A very few necromancers can but they'd probably keep that fact secret. Also it's a lot more dangerous for them than it is for a cleric.) gordon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 15:03:05 +0200 (METDST) From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Polymar: Shadow Legacy (Part 1/3) Hi Folks! As i promised u, this is my writeup about the polymar race. It details their history, their society and their goals. It should be enough to figure out how to use polymars in this intricate plot i've built around them, but it's not complete yet. As references (i think u will note it), i based my article on a Japanese Anime called "Hurricane Polymar", on Star Trek: Deep Space Nine (think about the Dominion) and on the recurring theme of the X-Files. Shaking the whole thing, i came up with this story. I hope you'll enjoy it! :) Tell me what u think! PS: in these four parts article i detail only the polymars. If time allows me, next week i'll introduce and describe more thoroughly the man who's fighting alone against the polymar race, the mysterious Hurricane Polymar... Enjoy! DM Polymar: Shadow Legacy The Shadow Folk It is not a common known fact that a race of true natural shapeshifters exist on Mystara since the age of Blackmoor. These individuals managed to survive the Great Rain of Fire mainly because of their incredible polymorphing skills, which allowed them to turn into any creature as well as object they were familiar with. This race continued to live throughout the centuries, surviving catastrophes that annihilated other cultures and nations, withstanding the numerous wars that ravaged across the world and always remaining hidden in the shadow of the other humanoid and demi-human civilizations. Today, they are one of the most populous race living in the world, but theirs is a shadow nation with a secret and common goal that has kept them united throughout the millennia. Some people have discovered and battled them during the course of the centuries, others have chosen to ally themselves with these creatures, gaining access to secrets and powers they thought forever lost. Many are aware of their existence, while others serve or fight them unknowingly. Some sages speculate that they have reached positions of high power and importance in all the major nations of the world, but none can tell for sure. The only thing certain is their name: Polymar. The Tale of Novar The true history of the polymars is unknown to the world and to many of them as well. Only the older generations are keepers of the ancient secrets, among which is the Tale of Novar, the Father of their kind. This is the Tale as the Elder Ones tell is: "Many suns ago, when the human race was indeed great and the Empire of Steel dominated the world, our Father, Novar the Blessed, was born amongst the people of the Black Moor. With his enlightened mind he rose to prominence inside the Empire of Steel, honored by his peers and feared by the enemies of the Great Moor. For many years he studied and learnt the secrets of the world, acquiring more knowledge than the High Immortals themselves. And through Knowledge he discovered the Great Truth, that which the people of the Moor were trying to hide because they feared it. He peered right into the human race and discovered it was weak and miserable, and that he couldn't survive the Great Change. So he worked to help the humans overcome their weakness and to teach them his Knowledge, the only thing that could have saved mankind from extinction. But the people of the Black Moor were jealous of Novar's intelligence and too arrogant to see their flaws, and so they banned him and threatened him not to reveal the Ultimate Truth, else he would have faced death at their hands. And theirs was the greatest of empires. But Our Father Novar was greater than the men of the Moor, and he feared them not. He took with him a few disciples and taught them the Ultimate Truth, and using his great powers he helped them going beyond the weaknesses of their human form, trascending life to be reborn into perfection. And thus the first of our kind came to be, and Novar was the First of us. However, when the Empire of Steel came to know of our existence its leaders envied us and coveted our knowledge and our powers. So they sent a traitor amongst us, the Cursed One: Oregar. He approached Novar and with false words he won his friendship and that of our ancestors, learning our secrets and our powers. When the time was right, he fled with the stolen knowledge and went back to the Black Moor, revealing the secrets to its leaders. They built the Red Hurricane to use it against our kin, and we suffered greatly, but we were not defeated. Novar led us to find a new sanctuary, the Cave of Souls, and from there we fought back valiantly. Then the Great Change arrived. The sky turned red and the earth was shaken to its deepest core. The fields broke and the livings fell like dead autumn leaves, and under the Sky Fire the Empire of Steel was turned into ashes. But we, the Polymars, resisted. We changed, and we survived. Yet to our great dismay the puny human race managed to survive as well, and Novar revealed us what had happened. The humans had stolen part of our power and tried to use it without the proper knowledge: for this reason they caused the Great Rain of Fire, which nearly annihilated the world. But using that same knowledge that destroyed their empire to protect them, some of the men of the Black Moor survived, and among them the Red Hurricane, to torment us with his deadly force. Mankind refused to listen to Novar's guidance and instead tried to kill our father and our kind. It stole part of our knowledge and nearly destroyed the world, causing anguish and suffering to our ancestors. But worst of all, they cheated Fate, for they were not destined to survive the Great Change and only treachery saved them. We should have been the only survivors, we should have been the New Beginning, but they stole us our rightful heritage. They still live and rule the world, and from them a myriad of other humanoid races have evolved, polluting the world even more. Now it is our duty to restore history and claim what shall belong us: Mystara!" (end part 1) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #241 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, April 24 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 242 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Polymar: Shadow Legacy (part 2/3) [MYSTARA] - Polymar: Shadow Legacy (part 3/3) Re: [MYSTARA] - Ispans . . . and the roaring 9th century [MYSTARA] - What is the Radiance??? Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Alphatia . . .GONE! Re: [MYSTARA] - Ahem...Glantri, Ethengar, and others... RE: [MYSTARA] - Ahem...Glantri, Ethengar, and others... Re: [MYSTARA] - I'm back Re: [MYSTARA] - Cause Disease Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Alphatia . . .GONE! Re: [MYSTARA] - Alchemists Re: [MYSTARA] - Ahem...Glantri, Ethengar, and others... Re: [MYSTARA] - Ahem...Glantri, Ethengar, and others... Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 15:05:38 +0200 (METDST) From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Polymar: Shadow Legacy (part 2/3) Here's file 2 detailing Polymars' true history... DM The Truth about Polymars It all began more than 4,000 years ago, in the sprawling metropolis known as Blackmoor Plus, on the continent of Brun. The Blackmoorian government was pursuing new scientific researches with the pourpose of improving humankind and give the Blackmoorians the edge over all the other cultures and races, even over those who still insisted with their heretical magical practices. The goal was the perfectioning of the human race in order to survive any climate and geological adversity. If this goal was ever reached, new frontiers would have opened up for the Blackmoorian society: first of all the colonization of the sea and then of space. Two enlightened minds worked on the Project Overlord as head scientists of a vast group of researchers and specialists in the genetic and engineering fields: Professor Devon Oregar and Professor Kain Novar. The first attempts were directed at pontentiating and altering somewhat the human immunitarian system. They soon started experimenting on subjects (both volounteers and prisoners from the lowly tribes conquered by Blackmoor), but the first attempts weren't really satisfactory. It seemed that their efforts were failing because of a natural flaw in the human genetic structure they couldn't locate, a sort of barrier placed inside humankind to prevent them from attaining a permanent perfect form. In fact, as the tests went on, it seemed clear that many of the subjects were able to survive the alterations of their genes for no more than 24 hours. Those who didn't die or revert back to normal form at the end of the period often went mad or simply changed so drastically they didn't belong to the human race anymore. Professor Novar in particular became obsessed with finding a solution to this problem, and began experimenting with human polymers. Professor Oregar, on the other hand, reported the tests' failure to the city government, and proposed a new way of overcoming the difficulty: creating a device that could potentiate humans without changing them permanently. The goverment gave him permission to further his studies while continuing to finance Novar's researches at the same time. In the same years, the first D.I.V.E.R.G.A.N. prototypes created by Professor Demag began to be used by the Blackmoorian government in Davania, but they soon didn't prove as useful as predicted, and this pushed the high officers to experiment other solutions (particularly cybernetic systems). Soon a real scientific war erupted between biogenetic and cybernetic engineers to obtain the government's funds and trust. And so it came to be that the two scientists finally completed their researches and announced that they had found the answer to the government's requests. Novar had invented a machine that polymerized the human beings, creating a new race of superior individuals he called Polymars. They were natural shapeshifters who could turn into anything they had memories of, and thus they could survive in every climate and geographical area by copying the living and non living beings that already lived there. Moreover, they had superior strength and were extremely resilient to any kind of harming effect. With his invention, he said, the human race would have evolved to a higher form of existence. Finally nature had been tamed and biogenetic engineering was the ultimate science, not cybernetics. Many of the government officers were greatly pleased with this experiment, particularly the military, because of the obvious advantage it would have given to Blackmoor over any other race. Yet others seemed skeptical and supported Professor Oregar's project instead, which had far less dangers and didn't involve the mutation of a whole race into another living kind. Professor Oregar's invention was somewhat similar to Novar's since it was based upon the manipulation of human polymers too, but it was less drastic. Basically, Oregar had built an helm that exploited molecular polymers to heighten human capacities and resistances, with the only pourpose to potentiate the human organism in order to overcome any obstacle or threat. Novar's variant instead polymerized the human beings turning them into a completely different lifeform which could prove not only superior but also dangerous to the human race. Novar reacted vehemently to these accusations and tried to show that his polymars were intelligent beings capable of executing any order to the letter, that they were faithful to Blackmoor and would have served well the military, but unfortunately his reasons turned against him at the end. True, said the government, they were incredibly skilled and superior to human beings in every aspect, but they did have a different mind too, and an intelligent one: who could assure them that they would act as obedient soldiers and servants if they could think with their own mind? Moreover, Novar's invention assumed that the human race would have to be replaced with polymars, and that was not what the government had in mind. Blackmoor wanted to potentiate humans, not to replace them with another race. For this reason, Novar's project was declared closed and he was assigned to help Oregar in producing more Polymer Helms, while the polymars already created had to be taken into custody for further studies or be eliminated. Novar didn't expect this reaction, and when he realized his protests were useless, he began plotting against the government and against Oregar to have his own revenge. He collaborated with Oregar, secretly stealing his plans and going on with his researches in his private laboratories to improve his polymars. When he finally thought he had reached his goal, he experimented his own invention on himself... He gained the powers of the common polymars but managed to retain his physical aspect. Also, he managed to incorporate a secret weapon inside his new body, a devastating weapon that could easily destroy entire buildings in the wink of an eye. And finally he was even able to turn his body or parts of his body into pieces of machinery just like the polymer helms did. So he went to the high officers of the government who had opposed him and confronted them, showing them his new genetic masterpiece. He simply wanted to astound them, in order to have them recognize his genious, admit their incompetence and reopen the Polymar Project. But he went a bit too far with his show, and at the end the officers were so scared and pissed off that they called him a traitor for not having obeyed their orders and had him arrested. That was the last drop... Novar escaped using his new powers and freed the last living polymars, leading them in a secret hideout under the city. From there he plotted his final revenge, which included the elimination of all his enemies and the takeover of Blackmoor Plus by replacing the high authorities with polymars. Unfortunately for him, Oregar began suspecting something was wrong when his project was suddenly closed without any explanations and some of the high ranking members of the city government were mysteriously assassinated. When he tried to investigate and to obtain support from the former officers who sponsored him, he found them unwilling to cooperate and somewhat changed... Finally, when some of the polymars broke into his laboratories to steal the prototypes of the Polymer Helm, he realized who was behind the machinations and tried to contact the government in Old Blackmoor. Novar obviously intervened and ordered his minions to slay him before he could ruin his plans, destroying every polymer helm they could find along with the technical data to build them. Oregar and his staff fell to Novar's polymars, but he was able to send one of the last versions of his helm to his brother with all the information about Novar's doings in its memory. When Tarin Oregar finally managed to operate the helm, he understood what was going on in his city, and began a solitary crusade to destroy Novar, becoming the first Hurricane Polymar... Then disaster struck in the form of the Great Rain of Fire... Many of the polymars survived to the shocking event for two reasons: first of all, they lived near Blackmoor Plus, in the continent of Brun, while the great cataclisms were mainly caused by the explosions in Old Blackmoor's nuclear plants on Skothar. Blackmoor Plus was a more advanced metropolis and had less nuclear plants than Old Blackmoor, and this helped containing the mayhem and the radiations that resulted from the obliteration of the Blackmoor civilization. Also, due to their natural polymorphing abilities, many polymars survived deep underground (unlike Blackmoorians who also sought refuge under the earth) by turning into natural objects such as stones or by becoming tiny burrowers, becoming able to find an even better refuge. Yet some of them were obliterated by the explosions and others incredibly altered by the radiations, becoming moulds, protoplasms and the first scamilles. Many others were not affected physically but mentally, loosing their innate intelligence and becoming dumb creatures led by instincts. When the unaffected polymars awoke from their slumber and reverted to normal form, they saw what had befallen their brethren. At first they tried to help the unfortunate ones recover their health and mind, but when they understood they were hopless, they let them free to find their own fate. Then they began to look around to see what had become of their world. Novar, who was still among them, had been physically affected by radiations too, but he was still vigorous and unchallenged leader of the New Generation. He made the polymars live underground until the radiations in the outside world began bearable, teaching them the Tale of Novar and telling them about the new world they would inherit. Then, after many decades, they returned to the outside world to claim it... and found out the humans had survived as well, along with other strange creatures, some even deadlier than humankind. So Novar began to brood over and finally devised his Grand Revenge against humanity: Assimilation. He gave his sons the instructions forthe ultimate goal and then set his plan into motion. However, some years prior the Glantrian catastrophe he went into a deep slumber... and awoke no more in that century... (end part 2) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 15:13:31 +0200 (METDST) From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Polymar: Shadow Legacy (part 3/3) And here you have file three, detailing polymar society, their current goals and relationships with other shapechangers. DM Present Day: the Hidden Threat Today the polymars have reached all the four corners of Mystara and some have even braved into the Hollow World. They share a common philosophy: all other races are inferior and in particular humans, who shall perish for they have usurped the polymars' rightful ownership of the world. They also share a common goal: the ultimate control of the world obtained not through war but using subterfuge and stealth, to repay humans with the same treacherous tactic they used to steal the polymars' knowledge and powers. To fulfill this goal, they have secretly infiltrated in every living culture over the years, witnessing every move of their enemies and gaining precious information on their tactics, activities and skills. Some of them have also specialized in substituting important personalities in order to control the human communities without arousing suspicions and are now occupying high charges inside the ruling body of various nations. Each polymar inside a community knows who the other polymars are and what's their secret identity (be it an animal, an individual or even an object!). In every polymar secret community (or cell) however, there is always a leader, usually an Elder One, who coordinates the operations and reports back to the central capital of the polymars (also known as the Invisible City) once each three months or when problems arise. Each Elder One is in contact with the Hierarchs via magical means of communication (Communication Scrolls being the most common, but Crystal Balls with Clairaudience and Communication Mirrors are also used). Every polymar cell has a general task (monitoring and infiltrating the host society) and some specific tasks for each member assigned by the Elder Ones, who are the only polymars to know what the others are up to. In the Invisible City, located somewhere on Brun, the oldest and most intelligent among the Elder Ones pull the strings that make the Grand Revenge go on smoothly. They are the ultimate politicians and coordinators and need to be informed of everything that's happening on the world to evaluate the humans' moves and think about countermoves. They often collaborate with other secret organizations but without revealing their true nature, thus manipulating them at their own advantage. These polymars, simply called the Group, keep tracks of every single major event in any of the host communities and also keep reference scrolls about important personalities and known heroes, magical accidents and new discoveries, secret organizations and races in order to monitor the world situation. Currently, their major cells are active in Thyatis, Ylaruam, Wendar, Darokin, the Heldannic Territories, Glantri, Sind, Minrothad, the Isle of Dawn, Bellissaria, the City States of the Savage Coast, Hule, the Savage Baronies, Eusdria, Bellayne, Renardy, the Lizard Kingdoms and even Herath! Alphatia still have some as well as Shajhapur and the Milenian Empire in the Hollow World, though contacts with the outer world polymars are not possible and they are considered lost by the Group. However, they haven't access to all the sources they'd want, and the polymars scattered around the world are not as many as they need, so the picture they have has many holes and they know it. So far, only this lack of information has prevented them from accessing the highest positions in the major governments of Mystara: they need to find out everything their targets know and all their schemes before making their move to replace it, but this is not so easy even for master spies. This has slowed their master plan considerably, expecially because the human nations seem to multiply every decade. This and the presence of a mysterious being that continues to haunt and battle them through the ages: the Red Hurricane... But the polymars don't dispair: after all they still wield a considerable power in the world and very few know or suspect of their machinations. And besides, they still have their Father who leads them, defying time and death like a true Immortal, the perfect example of what all polymars will become once they'll reach their goal and he will reward them with the secret of immortality. Indeed Novar still lives, though he is forced to enter a deep cataleptic slumber once each century, and can awaken only for a decade. He found out his tissues were debilitated after the Great Rain of Fire and that he required that slumber to regenerate them. However, he is not immortal and Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 13:26:52 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #242 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com his body cannot sustain him for a great length of time nowadays: he cannot spend more than ten years every century in active state or else his body would decay and his mind die. So he sleeps in the Invisible City, guarded by the Group and his faithful sons, hoping that one day he will awake to find all humanity defeated and his revenge finally accomplished. That day he will use his weapon to immolate himself, resting forever in peace. Polymars and Other Shapechangers Polymars know of the existence of other polymorphing races and have contacts with some of them. Dopplegangers are believed to have descended from polymars affected physically by the radiations to turn only into humanoids. Dopplegangers are usually employed in two ways by polymars: as killers, because they have a natural knack for maiming people in stealth, and as scapegoats, when polymars don't want to be discovered and use dopplegangers to cover their tracks and be blamed for their crimes (obviously without the dopplegangers realizing it until it's too late). Polymars know that dopplegangers' extremely selfish and malicious nature makes them unsuitable as long term allies and spies, so they rarely collaborate with them for long term goals. Metamorphs (also called Metamorfosis) are also considered lowly relatives of polymars, who lost their superior shapechanging abilities due to the effects of the Glantrian catastrophe. They are a race of gentle and friendly individuals who shun humans not because they hate them but because they fear them, and thus are considered inferior and useless by most polymars. Others simply pity them but are on friendly terms with these pacific and solitary creatures. Normally, while dopplegangers are viewed as instinctive creatures that can be killed when they become dangerous for the polymars, rarely a metamorph is perceived as hostile to polymar society, so they are almost always left alone. Finally, Baldandars, Adaptors and Randara are not related to Polymars in any ways, and few contacts exist with these races, mainly because each representative of its species has its own goals which not always fit into the polymar schemes. Quite the contrary: many times polymars find out that a baldandar or a randara is hiding inside one of their host communities and they have to dispose of it in order to accomplish their goals (and the reverse applies). When this happens, the unsuspecting community finds itself at the center of a hidden war that usually provokes mysterious accidents and sudden deaths, which are often explained with the workings of fiends and other supernatural entities. End File-- for now... ;) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 15:29:20 +0200 (METDST) From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ispans . . . and the roaring 9th century At 01.38 24/04/98 EDT, BoBo II wrote: >Found the following on the Unoffical Mystaran timeline on the web (thanks Daniel): >"902 AC: The Barony of Narvaez is founded along the Savage Coast by an expedition of Ispan people from the distant Thyatian Empire. Narvaez claims a great deal of land, from the Claw Peninsula to the Bay of the Siren (Baia da Sereia), including land already occupied by human, elven, dwarven, and tortle inhabitants. (RS)" >Okay RS and Thyatian fans/experts out there, who were these folks, where in the empire do they come from, where are they in the post-Wrath thyatis, and when did they influence the Belcadiz elves (or vis versa). Okay, IIRC some weeks ago Mystaros posted his own version of the Ispan history (and a detailed one i must say). If u look in the archives around #180 u should find it. However, i must say i prefer Patrick Sullivan's explanations on why the Ispans migrated from Thyatis. I don't have the file right here, so i'll make a very brief summary: Ispans were a branch of the Kerendan people (Kerendans are similar to Italians while ispans to Spanish people) who worshipped Ixion. For some reasons, Ixion was declared banned by the Emperor of Thyatis at the end of ninth century (a political and religious move against the noble Ispan houses than were ousting the ruler at that time) and so they were force to migrate en masse. They were skilled sailors and travelers and they sailed westwards, finally landing on the Savage Coast, where they found the Savage Baronies. Some Ispans remained in Thyatis, however, while others stopped in Darokin, Minrothad and Ierendi. That's all i can remember. As for their ties with Belcadiz, none is officially given. My personal take is that Belcadiz come from extrovert Vyalia who befriended Ispan people and gradually adopted their customs while living in Thyatis, then migrated to Glantri in the 8th century IIRC... DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 14:29:27 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: [MYSTARA] - What is the Radiance??? >What's the Radiance? Is there any connction with Blackmoor? Newbie!!! Ok, lets begin at the beginning... In the year 4000BC Federation Star Ship FSS Beagle crashlanded on Mystara after arriving through a dimensional rift above the planet. The Beagle landed pretty near the Kingdom of Blackmoor, which was just a little part of the Thonian empire. (Cue the DA series of adventures). Blackmoor gained all its technology through examining the wreckage of the FSS Beagle. Until almost all the technology was destroyed by the Great Rain of Fire in 3000BC (nuclear war?). The engines of the Beagle, however, became a powerful magical item thanks to some Old One intervention (I think), now known as the Nucleus of the Spheres. The Nucleus of the Spheres has power over all magic on the Prime Plane (at least, so it is hinted). To cut a long story short the Nucleus ended up buried far underground... by coincidence right under the Great School of Magic in Glantri.... (Hmm. Perhaps the Broken Lands IS where Blackmoor once was? not far from the crash site - Glantri is north of the Broken Lands like the FSS Beagle was north of Blackmoor... and the Comeback Inn is inn the broken lands(lol)) A form of magic called the Radiance draws its power from the Nucleus of the Spheres. Radiance magic can only be used in close proximity to the Nucleus, which is why only an elite group of Glantrian WIzards know of it (The Brotherhood of the Radiance) - at least until the Alphatians discovered it at the start of the War of Wrath (thats what the war was all about). Radiance spells are concerned with augmenting magic, basically. As an aside (!) the Radiance also has the power to make people Immortal (hence Rad/Etienne d'Ambreville)... Brannart McGregor and Angus his kid are Radiance mages, as is Harald of Haaskinz and the late Vanserie Vlaardoen. As another aside, use of the Radiance can corrupt body parts (radiation sickness???), which is why Harald has a withered arm and Brannart McGregor is a lich (he became a lich when the Radiance corrupted his entire body). Theres more stuff in Glantri, Kingdom of Magic. Yet another aside... the Shadow Elves are trying to make another Nucleus of the Spheres under Rafiel's guidance (Rafiel being in mortal life a Blackmoorian nuclear physicist...). Exactly whether the Shadow Elves reactor will function like the Nucleus given the lack of Old One intervention is anyones guess... (over to you, Net Almanac writers...) Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 17:18:21 +0200 From: Lille My Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Alphatia . . .GONE! At 23:59 23-04-98 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 4/22/98 11:57:12 PM, you wrote: ><that the cause was either the "Wrath of the Immortals" for whatever sins the Alphatians were guilty of or a simple natural disaster with no intelligent >cause.>> >Yeah! How would some of these other cultures, from the advanced to the primitive react to the Utter Distruction Of A Continent. Whats worse, most of >the world will only hear parts of the story libarally mixed with rumors and mistakes. Can folks come up with good country/race reactions to the destruction of one of the worlds biggest players? Well, perhaps they would react to it, they way people responded to Atlantis and other huge floodings. >Doomsday cults? Or perhaps people get a lot more careful around their immortals. Be nice to your immortal or suffer the same fate as the Alphatians. A new inquisition is born, an inquisition with the purpose of getting rid of anyone who is not strictly devout and therefore is a danger to the society, as he may cause the end of that nation. >Other nation's fear of the Thyatian/Glantrian/Heldannic "Superweapon? I don't think so. Most people know that mages are/can be powerful, but that powerful? Nay that must involve the work of the immortals. >. . . how about a Glantrian religious groundswell in the face of this display >of divine power(not to mention the Crator) . . . Or perhaps an even greater fear/hatred of clerigs. They wield strange powers and serve incredibly powerful creatures, who would destroy whole nations, at a whim. "We were lucky, as we rarely let clerigs across our borders, but the Alphatians did and you can see what happens when you mix mages and clerigs". Perhaps a secret religious order of mages is founded, one that strive to combine wizardly magic with clerical magic. Why not try to get it all, instead only one type of magic? Lille My *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 11:30:32 EDT From: BoBo II Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ahem...Glantri, Ethengar, and others... In a message dated 98-04-24 05:57:08 EDT, you write: << Then there's the Order of >the Griffon. >> Is this group well detailed in the Gaz or Karameikos boxed set? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 16:33:37 +0100 From: Andy.P.Smith@marks-and-spencer.com Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Ahem...Glantri, Ethengar, and others... There is stuff in the boxed set. . . *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 11:42:35 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I'm back Listers, Well, the last few days have seen my Mystara time taken away. Seems I have have been busy over at the ole hospital finishing up on an old baseball injury that has popped up. Well, for better or worse I am back in action until June. In June I will be down again as I will be having one of my ribs removed. Seems that I am a freak of nature and have an extra pair of ribs. One of which is playing havoc with my spinal cord thanks to one of several baseball injuries. And Daddy wanted me to play baseball cause it was a nonviolent sport.... Anyway....I have a bunch of backlogged mail to read. And yes....there is much that I feel compelled to respond to. So to those that thought that I had been rebuffed to the posteriors of the debate....you were most wrong. Looking over the posts, I see the Ethie/Glantri deal still in full swing. As stated sometime back, I will only respond to fresh insight: no repeats. Anyway....bring on the REPLY icon. Alex and his two extra ribs *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 11:44:03 EDT From: Duncan TKD Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Cause Disease How is mummy rot contagious? If I remember correctly there was a plague started by the disease. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 16:47:43 +0000 (GMT) From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Alphatia . . .GONE! >>Yeah! How would some of these other cultures, from the advanced to the primitive react to the Utter Distruction Of A Continent. Whats worse, mmost of >>the world will only hear parts of the story libarally mixed with rumors and mistakes. Can folks come up with good country/race reactions to the destruction of one of the worlds biggest players? >Well, perhaps they would react to it, they way people responded to Atlantis and other huge floodings. Ooh I like! I think in most of the gazeteers Alphatia is refered to as a mysterious eastern empire, few people know much about it (exception of maybe Minrothad). For the people that weren't in Thyatis they may only have heard of it in legend, and that when it attacked the most powerful empire around (Thyatis) it had no trouble defeating them! (Well, 4 years but hey :) ) And then they were punished by the Immortals. Too much magic perhaps? Thinking themselves as equal to the Immortals? If there are few survivors, say only a couple manage to get to Karamiekos, then they will remain a strange enigma to the nations of the Known World (again, with the exception of thyatis). Some may even doubt it ever existed at all! :) :) So after WotI, Alphatia could become a dim and distant legend, or perhaps it suddenly comes into focus if a lot of Alphatians migrate to Karameikos, or invade a weakened Thyatis? Since it is likely that the more war-like alphatians will be left topside, maybe they'll find homes along the south coast of the continent, attacking Ierendi, the Five Shires (I know, I keep wanting someone to invade the Five Shires, so sue me :) ), Atruaghin (like the "spirits" did). waffle, waffle... gordon just some thoughts... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 11:49:41 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alchemists At 01:58 PM 4/24/98 +0000, you wrote: >>At 02:28 PM 4/24/98 +0200, Daly wrote: >>Actually the discussion started when someone suggested that alchemists could simply replace clerics in Glantri. My only point is that alchemists cannot replace clerics in Glantri, else there is no point in banning them. >I presume you mean from a gaming point of view there would be no point in banning them. From an in-world point of view there certainly is a reason to ban clerics and not alchemists. Yes. That is what I meant. I was leaving for work so I had to cut my thought short. Thanks for summing up nicely. Now, I am not going to answer sarcasm with sarcasm as I believe we are all Mystarans here. Some of us need to take time to cool down before we answer threads that deal with favorite countries. Something that may be causing confusion for Fabrizio and Inconu is the dual way in which Alchemists are treated in Gaz3. In the section on the Seven Secret Crafts, it states quite explicitly that the disciples of the orders are secretive and will NOT reveal that they belong to an order. They recognize each other through invisible marks Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 13:26:52 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #242 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com placed on them upon induction into the order. They are limited in a large way by their desire to maintain secrecy. Couple this with the description of the Alchemists' GUILD in the guild section. In that description, Alchemists are heavily regulated, must carry a license, and must have a blue star tattooed on their foreheads. An individual DM has to decide whether these Alchemists are one and the same, or if the Alchemists' Guild is composed of something seperate from the Alchemist Order. In my own campaign, the Alchemists guild are more like herbalists or physicians. They do not use magic, but rather use natural herbs and minerals (in a fantastic way that often defies real world science) to obtain whatever result it is they are looking for. They are seen as practicing a dangerous (alchemist labs have a nasty tendency to blow up) profession. Now, once again, my point all along has been very basic. Clerics serve a purpose in Mystara in particular (contact with the Immortals) and in AD&D in general (healing). If you have a mage class in Glantri that is numerous and well known, it really takes away from the role of clerics in the game. I don't believe this was the intention in Gaz3. If you choose to view the Alchemist Order and the Alchemist Guild as one and the same group, then you have to decide why the government of Glantri regulates them so heavily. Governments do not do things in a random manner. Do they fear the Alchemists' power? Do they recognize a risk in what the Alchemists do? Do they simply desire more tax revenue? In any case, I am pretty much done arguing this point also. Opposing clerics are not neutralized by Glantri. Glantri has deprived itself of one form of power. That is a weakness. It is a good weakness. All countries are in balance...sort of. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 12:03:23 EDT From: Duncan TKD Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ahem...Glantri, Ethengar, and others... Wait a minute...... >Would Jaggar turn into the Star Dragon and bring a couple of huge gold dragons to the fight?< Jagger cannont turn into the Star Dragon the star dragon is another name fore one of the Dragon Immortals. And Jagger I don't believe is an immortal. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 12:09:21 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ahem...Glantri, Ethengar, and others... Actually, Jaggar is the Star Dragon. A little confusing perhaps, but true. He has agreed to not use that particular power though, so as not to irritate the lawful dragons. Impressed with his restraint, the lawful dragons have decided to serve him anyway. Actually, I took this basic canon idea, and wrote it into a novel length story. Arik and the Thanegioth Archipelago are included. If it ever gets published, I will let you all know! At 12:03 PM 4/24/98 EDT, you wrote: >Wait a minute...... >>Would Jaggar turn into the Star Dragon and bring a couple of hhuge gold dragons to the fight?< >Jagger cannont turn into the Star Dragon the star dragon is another name fore one of the Dragon Immortals. And Jagger I don't believe is an immortal. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 13:26:16 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) In a message dated 98-04-21 13:53:23 EDT, you write: << (sigh). Look - Ethengar cannot beat Glantri militarily. If someone can point out exactly how they can (I reckon subterfuge) I'm impressed. Reasons follow....>> Never say never. I know you said "cannot" but same thing. <<> The cost of building and maintaining a "high tech" army is expensive, both monetary and timewise (training). And sometimes that technology defeats itself. Take a high tech army and place it in a hostile environment or against an adversary it is not trained to deal with and it will often squander itself. The analogy of the Vietnamese gnat annoying the US giant should not be overlooked. Now I can see the Glantri war machine as being able in dealing with an Ethie incursion. However, taking that army out onto the hostile steppes may just be the achilles heel the Ethie need to exploit. Read "Fighting in Hell: The German Ordeal on the Eastern Front" to get an idea of the possible hardships an army can face after steppping into the steppes. << Glantri has a greater population (600,000 compared to 330,000).>> And humanoids breed like rabbits yet they are confined to certain areas by the less prolific (by noid standards) humans. Also base population factors little in this war as the Glantrians are so much more technological. In RW terms, as a nation became more civilized, the size of the military decrease (per citizen). Trademens, craftsmen, guilds, and the like take a higher proportion of the populace. The armies of Charlemagne's time were relatively small. The fate of an entire domain could be determined by 4,000 men. The key advantages a populace nation has is that it can commit to war without diverting from its economy too much. Conscripts (fighter fodder) can be called up to act as replacments. But it should be remembered that it takes time and money to train a citizen to soldier status. That was the key to US success in WW2, the ability to crank out citizen soldiers in a month or so. Ambrose scribed a good book on this very subject titled "Citizen Soldiers". Excellent reading for those that are interested in building an army. <> Glantri's army is bigger than the Ethie army. But if you take into account post Wrath info, you'll could find the available Glantri Divisions lacking. In particular the Erewan. Glantri dfoes have the larger population to draw upon. But this may not be so great. Given the tech level, you are hardpressed to find merchants and other commoners flocking to sign up. Conscription could draw upon the populace but IMO conscripts usually suck, though the term an armed mob would be more adequate. As for army size, this has not always acheived victory. In 1940, the French Army was the biggest on continental Europe. So big and so technically advanced that it gave cause for Churchill to declare "Thank God for the French Army". However, the coming months would paint a different picture as the Heer units of the German Army ran roughshod over not only the massive French Army, but also the bulk of the rest of the European nations. Where they lacked in numbers they compensated with skill and tactics. Thus the field was won. "Blitzkreig" Len Deighton (to name just one source). And in Mystara, an invasion does not mean the two nations' armies would be squared up. The invader would be going in en mass. The invadee would have their armies dispersed at various parts of the land to guard the borders. Victory could very well lay with the invadee's ability to mobilize and meet the invader. If too slow, the invader will outnumber the defense forces and walk over them. Defender disorganization and failed Command and Communications (not to mention collaboration) will have the defenders ill prepped and disarrayed. Confusion breeds panic and panic breeds routs. << Glantri has more money (what kind of economy have the Ethies got??? OK - - horses. Glantri has magic - it is the only really magic heavy kingdom in the KW - it has a well developed merchants guild, good relations with Darokin, despite the Broken Lands etc. etc.). Money means mercenaries, training, bribes, good quality weapons, etc. etc.>> But the Ethie are not in as much a need to pay for troops. The call of a war against Glantri is enough to make available every available horse soldier. Whereas Glantri could find a long tedious campaign economically unsound as its already strained economy supports an expensive army and fights an enemy that offers little in the way of financial return. <> You know it is funny, I bet if I changed the "Glantri" to "Alphatia" I would have folks screaming that the mages would be too chaotic to come together in a united front to wage war. A defensive war might give cause for solidarity, but an offensive into Ethengar most probably will not. And could you imagine the various Princes of Glantri trying to work together to do anything in unison. Ethie has clerics and shamans. I am sure Immortals such as Ixion and others that sided against Rad (and possibly a few that sided with him) would take great interest in an assault against Glantri. And the Ethie do have mages. Not sure where you got them as not having them. Sure they treat them badly, but they do have them. And given the attitude Glantri has for the Ethie (even Jherek) desertion is not a viable option. << The Ethengars are fighting on unfamiliar terrain. If they attack through the mountains, it'll be Skullhorn Pass... and it will be a massacre. If they attack through Boldavia or Belcadiz, it'll mean going past a fortress(Monteleone or Tchernovodsk). Bronze Age siege technology vs Renaissance??? If they go for the Boldavia route I imagine a mysterious plague of vampirism will be visited upon the Ethengars, and Morphail will get a whole lot of new recruits into his army.>> Yes, the Ethie would be hardpressed in the mountain passes. Their passage would have to be swift. Probably attempt to bypass an opposition and get into the more favorable Boldavian terrain. This would leave an enemy in their rear, but such tact may be neccessary. Morphail's recruitment may not be as swift as you might think. Since daylight is so destructive to a vampire, attacks would be limited to periods where the Ethie had to camp. At camp, the forces would be more concentrated and the available clerics and shamans could keep watch. This guard could be aided by the use of Bless spells cast upon normal weapons. Holy Symbols and the infamous garlic could be used as wards. <> Darokin is probably their closest friendly nation. Glantri is known for its uppity attitude and seclusionism. Darokin may be a semi valued trade partner, but would Darokin go to war over them? You have to look at the big picture and the WDL. Plus Darokin is freinds with other nations that would not mind seeing Glantri with a bloody nose. Plus Darokin is prone to the butting in of the DDC. If Darokin intervenes, I am sure DDC negotiation will be foacal in that regard. << The Heldannic Territories - ok there is a bit of unrest here. This may seem to be bad for wars, but historically that is normally the time IRL that nations have gone to war - to unite the people behind a common enemy. Besides, they might get into Vanyas good books again if they do that.>> Here is a point I have pondered. Who is to say the Knights are going to rush to aid the Glantrians? This war is not the WotI. Thyatis is not involved. It is a war between Ethengar (who the Knights have a truce with) and the cleric hating Glantrians who could bear blame for the Knights' reverses after Wrath. <> Maybe maybe not. Dwarves are demihumans and demihumans have long memories that hold grudges. Grudges based on magical experimentation, finger pointing (plague), and resentment due to dwarven magical resistance. I think Rockhome would find the prospect of the Rockhome Banner flying from atop the spires of Glantri City much appealing. The tie is there due to Moglai's dwarf buddy. So much that Rockhome dwarves work in Ethengar. And there are the dwarven troops that raid Glantri from Ethengar. Ethie GAZ (which I do have) <> That is a variable that weighs heavily in the individual campaign. Alot of politicking would be needed not only from the immediate comabtants but also the other nations who can and will be affected. The promise of loot from oppulent Glantri could be enough to persuade a few barabarians from the north to side with Ethengar. Merc pay is slight as compared to the potential looting and pilliaging can produce. And Glantri has such luxeries and booty whereas the tribes are not exactly brimming with gold. Plus IMO raping and pillaging instead Glantri instead of Ethengar would appeal to the vikings' labido and finances. <> I would not even count that. The Glantrian nobles are split enough as is and Ethie involvement is not really needed. I'd use these covert forces to exact recon and a handy assassination or two. <> Personally I give care less about the Khanates. I have never adventured there that I can recall. I have the Gaz but rarely use it. In fact it was one of my very first ones purchased. One of the interesting aspects of the Ethengar is their stalemate with Glantri. IMO it is a complicated and well balanced stalemate. Neither side can invade and fully conquer the other leaving its own borders unguarded and possibly devastating its own army. I like it that way. Which was my original purpose in the thread oh so long ago. A stalemate. Not who would kick who's butt. Much more rational than the Alphatia/Thyatis stalemate based upon world destruction fears. Fears which proved incorrect as Alphatia spanked Thyatis's fanny. Kinda sucked that they were sunk, especially when the Alphatian Armies were amassing for the drive into Glantri. Damn Immortal strength artifacts.....Glub...Glub Alex and his extra ribs- Terrance and Phillip *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #242 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 15:22:25 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #243 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Friday, April 24 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 243 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) Re: [MYSTARA] - Take a Chill Pill Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) Re: [MYSTARA] - A Blackmoor question... Re: [MYSTARA] - Dark elves, Tylion, and Tylari Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri and disease... Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) Re: [MYSTARA] - Take a Chill Pill Re: [MYSTARA] - Alchemists Healing People Re: [MYSTARA] - A Blackmoor question... Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Circles Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] ???????? Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) Re: [MYSTARA] - Alchemists [MYSTARA] - New Race: The Thoul Re: [MYSTARA] - Gun powder? Re: [MYSTARA] - Gun powder? [MYSTARA] - New PC Race: The Thoul ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 13:40:54 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) << And Ethengarian priests? Sorry, but Clovefoot, Wobblebelly and the other one don't scare me. I'm sure they scare Jaggar even less. >> Obviously Jaggar is not very wise. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 13:41:01 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Take a Chill Pill << If its really down to it, just imagine if Ethengar tried to invade Cimmaron County, or Herath, or Eshu? Now that would be clear cut - bye bye, Ethengar... >> Could Ethengar solve the logistic problems I don't see how Cimarron could stand against Ethengar. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 13:40:59 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) << After all, Glantri is aiding the Sphere of Energy. Ethengar is aiding only Entropy. >> Boy, you REALLY hate Ethengar!!! I expect you apology for this statement... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 13:40:58 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) << Think of cause disease like a cancer. >> Better a acute TBC. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 13:41:05 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Blackmoor question... << I've been working on a personal project involving the polymar race (from DDA2, Monstrous Compendium 2) and i was wondering: Thonia was north or south of Blackmoor according to DA modules? I don't wanna open again the debate "Where the heck is Blackmoor": i only need a simple straight answer based on DA modules. >> South of Blackmoor! The Iron Duke was south of Blackmoor and he ruled the northernmost province of Thonia. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 13:41:04 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dark elves, Tylion, and Tylari << >Also, within Dawn of the Emporers there is a huge discrepancy when it ttalks about the reign of Tylion. According to some parts of it, Tylion was Emporer when Alphatia conquered Glantri, but elsewhere it says he became Emporer in the 20th century, taking the throne from his mother Tylari. Which is the truth? I don't remember this one sincererly. I know Tylion is Terari and he's Eriadna's father, and i know he was in charge at the beginning of tenth century... just go checking his birthdate and you'll get the answer (you know, sometimes mages can live for a veery long time....) ;) >> BTW, some names are more common as others, especially the name of kings and emperors. That might be two different Tylions. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 13:41:03 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri and disease... << I would say if you are diseased by a priest, you are cursed. Using Lycanthropy as an analogy for every magical disease just does not work. >> Sorry, but I believe that the cleric have to curse you that you are cursed. Simply another spell... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 13:40:57 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) << >No supply lines!!! But teleport can't sustain whole armies. Gate is a powerful spell... >> But a little bit clumsy in this matter. To what place should this hypothetic gate kead? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 13:41:02 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) << But, Glantri is a rather civilized country. While, mobs probably could do some harm I think most cases would go to court. There, each case would be closely examined and the defendant woul be sentenced according to the law. >> Like Germany, Italy and Spain in the first half of the 20th century? They all did unbelievably cruel things. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 13:41:01 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) << You forgot: Sticks to Snakes (Especially nasty if cast after some Arrow-volleys, hehehe) Strike (onto experienced ones) Insect Swarm Animate Object >> Not really. I didn't want to expand the list tremendously. You could add: Purify Water and Food Aerial Servant Earthquake Holy Word Quest Neutralize Poison Hold Person Speak to animals Speak to Plants All have more or less military value. But thanks for mentioning more of the incredible power of clerics. (I must know this, as I play a level 16 cleric.) Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 14:02:43 EDT From: LandoTW Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Take a Chill Pill << I don't see how Cimarron could stand against Ethengar. >> ::chuckles:: I do....one word.....BOOM......smokepowder.....It would be over before it started. IMHO of course. But the chances of this happening anyhow are..oh.....slim to none.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 14:13:24 EDT From: The Athar Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alchemists Healing People << >But all the >nastier clerics on Ethengar's side, working together, can have nasty results. >> Okay, I don't own any gazatters, but I do own the Rules Cyclopedia and I'm been playing in the Mystara setting for over a year now. So this my be a bit uneducated, but I'm gonna say it anyway: Which is more powerful? A 36th (Using OD&D system) level wizard with an army of familiars, elementals, charmed monsters, apprentice mages, and peasantry from the surrounding area (all of which have haste cast upon them, by the dozens of magi in Glantri), or a few dozen clerics who spend their time healing the wounds of sheep ranchers? I mean, come on folks, we're not talking about clerics that spent their lives learning 7th level spells and studying under their deities! They probably had a sort of "knack" for it, learned a few rudamentary, day-to-day survival spells, such as "Cure like wounds", "Purify Food & Water", "Remove Fear", "Resist Cold", etc. I doubt any clerics in Ethengar besides the advisors and high-priests that serve directly under the Golden Khan would have anything above 4th or 5th level clerical spells. But before I get flamed for that, keep in mind I'm not a *true* Mystaran. I've only been playing in the setting for a year, and we basically stick around Darokin and Karameikos. And, I don't have any of the gazatteers..so much of what I just said may be proven totally wrong in a book somewhere. - - Technocrat *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 11:25:03 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Blackmoor question... On Thu, 23 Apr 1998, DM wrote: >I've been working on a personal project involving the polymar race (from DDA2, Monstrous Compendium 2) and i was wondering: Thonia was north or south of Blackmoor according to DA modules? I don't wanna open again the debate "Where the heck is Blackmoor": i only need a simple straight answer based on DA modules. Blackmoor (and the North) are to the northwest of the Empire of Thonia. Their closest Thonian neighbors are the Iron Duke's Duchy of... Marban is the capital. Can't think of the name. Anyway, their nearest neighbor, and the northernmost extent of Thonia's influence is the Iron Dukes realm to the southeast of Blackmoor. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 11:31:11 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar on April 17 1998, gordon wrote: >Naturally, that's why I prefer Glantri with it's werewolves, vampires, burning of clerics etc. Yup, if you want evil then it's sitting just west of Ethengar. But then the Ethengarians could be described as evil, butchering whole tribes who dare to disobey the Khan. >Not to mention the raiders of the Northern Reaches who rape, murder and pillage. The intolerant Ylari, the treacherous Thyations, the sneaky wimpy merchants of Darokin, the arrogant elves, the surly dwarves, the all-round-nice-guy Hin, er, Ok, maybe not the last ones. :) Wimpy Darokinians? I Leave for spring break, and you call my countrymen wimpy. For the first part, they have fought the gobliniods for over a milenia now, have fought in the Elf-war for twenty years, have fought bravely against the Hule/Sindhi mumlyket armies, before reinforcements arrived to aid them and have had several fights lately with the children of the Tiger of Autruaghin. Not only that, but they have enough charisma in there DDC, to talk a Ylari sultan out of his Turban, or Tortle out of his shell. I dare you to call a Darokinian wimpy at Fort Hobart, Ft. Fletcher, or Fort Nell. as for Thyatis, the only treacherous elements is the Emperor, and his Senate, as well as elements of his ruling class, I don't know about the rest of his people. and i do know one thing, not every hin is going to be a nice guy around a Thyatian. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 17:59:01 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Circles About these secret circles - how do you all fit them into your campaigns? Do you think they are a bit overpowered? (Dracology springs to mind...). This isn't an Ethie/Glantrian thing - I just want to know if any DMs out there use them, or allow PCs to join one. Because I think they are a tad gross... Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 11:45:57 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar ><< So deal with it. Karameikos rules! >Alexius Dannelaran, Knight of the Griffon >> >Never mind! Enjoy your independency as long as you can. Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 15:22:25 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #243 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com >A personal advice: Improve your riding abilities! When the Khanate Karameikos will have been founded we might find a task for you. Jamuga Khan After this second threat letter was turned in by the Order of the Griffon, The WDL has agreed by a unanimous vote with Associate member, Ierendei Abstaining to launch an investigation on Ethengar's alleged military build-up for domination of the Known World. Jordi Castille reporting ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 12:01:29 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] ???????? >Greetings, >I have a question for all those experienced mystara DM's out there! >I have for the first time run a group of adventurers up to a semi-high level. The party fighter defeated a Roaring Fiend in combat and I allowed him to claim the fiend's weapon's (in prelude to doing something >nasty to the fighter). >Anyways I was just looking for any ideas of what to do to this fellow ( >a rather proud/ arrogant fighter). >So anyone got any interesting ideas for what I could do to this fellow? >Bye, >Anakin You could the weapons become cursed and make it a sword of Berserking, or worse yet a sword+2, Backbiter. if the PC wasn't a problem, you could make it a Luckblade with only one wish left, or a Nine Lives Stealers, with 2 charges left, or you could give the sword an ego, and an alignment, who will fight the warrior in a battle of wills, like Cyric's sword in the Avatar trilogy. just an idea you can use if you want. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 19:00:34 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) At 13.58 24/04/98 +0000, Gordon McCormick wrote: AAAt 02:28 PM 4/24/98 +0200, Daly wrote: >>Actually the discussion started when someone suggested that alchemists could simply replace clerics in Glantri. My only point is that alchemists cannot replace clerics in Glantri, else there is no point in banning them. Daly, I agree completely with you: alchemist cannot replace clerics. >Yup, I'd agree that alchemists cannot do all that a cleric can. A few potions of healing are nothing compared to the power of a high level (or even low level) cleric. And the Alchemists can't raise the dead either. (A very few necromancers can but they'd probably keep that fact secret. Also it's a lot more dangerous for them than it is for a cleric.) I think in Glantri use of "reincarnate" as a substitute of "raise dead" is pretty common. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 19:12:11 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alchemists At 11.49 24/04/98 -0400, Daly wrote: >An individual DM has to decide whether these Alchemists are one and the same, or if the Alchemists' Guild is composed of something seperate from the Alchemist Order. In my own campaign, the Alchemists guild are more like herbalists or physicians. They do not use magic, but rather use natural herbs and minerals (in a fantastic way that often defies real world science) to obtain whatever result it is they are looking for. They are seen as practicing a dangerous (alchemist labs have a nasty tendency to blow up) profession. IMC I made the members of Alchemists' Guild as low level members of the secret Alchemist Order. Maybe this caused some confusion. >Now, once again, my point all along has been very basic. Clerics serve a purpose in Mystara in particular (contact with the Immortals) and in AD&D in general (healing). If you have a mage class in Glantri that is numerous and well known, it really takes away from the role of clerics in the game. I don't believe this was the intention in Gaz3. In Glantri there're sheperds of Rad to contact with immortals and general healers (not clerics) to heal sick people. IMO people with healing skills should be fairly common even in lands where clerics are allowed, because I don't think you always need to go the local Temple (if any) when you're sick. On the other hand wounded people may need a better medical treatment requiring magic. >If you choose to view the Alchemist Order and the Alchemist Guild as one and the same group, then you have to decide why the government of Glantri regulates them so heavily. Governments do not do things in a random manner. Do they fear the Alchemists' power? Do they recognize a risk in what the Alchemists do? Do they simply desire more tax revenue? Looking at how they regulate everything (just have a quick look at the guilds section) I think it's because they desire more tax revenue. Moreover guilds were a typical feature of Real World Middle Age; in my hometown we even have a square with all the coat of arms of middle-age guilds. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 12:06:46 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: [MYSTARA] - New Race: The Thoul Hieroglyphics found in a Nithian tomb- "Thanatos be praised! By utilizing the theories of the sorceror Kruthep- may he rest with Entropy- I have managed to convert the last remnants of the Black Moon Trolls into a new form! The visions of a new species, one straddling the line between life and death, that were sent to me by his most illustrious bringer of night, have at last been realized! "I shall call my new creation Thoul- for is it not part troll, part hobgoblin, and part ghoul? Combining the best aspects of each, and completely under my control!" (From later in the account) "... I have noticed a strange relationship between the undead hordes and thouls that are under my command. They seem to share some sort of bond... "Perhaps it is nothing. But I shall look into it nevertheless." Excerpt from a genetic discussion at the Galactic Federation Center for the Advancement and Understanding of Interspecies Relations and Biological Processes. "... Nowhere is this phenomenon more evident than among the primitive populations that inhabit the backwater planet of M-1273, known to its peoples as Mystara. Through the use of their indigenous arts- commonly called magic, though debate continues whether or not it is merely some form of psychokinesis- they have managed to populate their world with a widely diverse range of species, some of which would seemingly be impossible on other worlds, and certainly in the environments in which they appear. "One species in particular, known locally as the 'troll', has demonstrated an incredibly adaptible genetic structure. Like certain viruses, their cells are constantly modifying and duplicating themselves, with the end result that they have vast regenerative powers, and are seemingly indestructible to most mundane forms of harm. It is this adaptibility that certain Mystaran Scientists- or Sorcerors- have discovered, enables them to be a useful catalyst in the creation of new species. Through arcane means, their genetic structures have been combined with those of other species, to create new, and sometimes wildly different, types of creatures..." Historical account of the Terror, by a Glantrian scholar: "When the Blood Brethren rose to power during their brief, but evil, reign, in the early days of 800 AC, their chief weapon of destruction were the deadly Thouls. "As mean as their hobgoblin cousins, but far more powerful, they Thouls had been kept under close confinement since their arrival in the Broken Lands nearly a millenia before. Their disgusting acts of Entropy worship and cannibalism turned the stomachs of even the humanoids of the Broken Lands. And there were whispers that they consorted with the undead... "While Koresh Teyd led his hordes out of High Gobliny against their eastern neighbors, his brother, Simm of the Grasping Dark, led another band, deep beneath the lands of Hobgobland, to the caverns where the Thouls were confined, all at the behest of his patron Thanatos. "Once unleashed, the Thouls became the chief lieutenants of the Blood Brethren's massive horde, a horde that nearly took over the entirety of the Broken Lands. Their reign of terror would have likely remained unchecked, if not for the intervention of a few intrepid adventurers, who confined the Brethren to Barleycorn Monastery. "Without their leaders, the Thouls hordes quickly broke up, and most were driven into the depths of the Broken Lands once more, though many were able to remain amongst goblin and hobgoblinkind, if not fully accepted, at least tolerated..." - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 12:09:24 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gun powder? >Hola: >I'm relatively new to the Mystara (Known World) setting, and I am wondering if any of the more "advanced" cultures (Darokin, Thyatis, Alpatia, etc.) have invented gunpowder? I know that the Savage Coast has it, but does anyone in the Known World?> - - Technocrat well, i can tell you this, Darokin might, since they trade as far as Slagovich, and in some cases, into the city-state of Hojah, where Cimarron Merchants of the Lawfull Brotherhood would have trade Smokepowder for eastern goods with the Darokin Merchant Houses. I would also have to yes to the Yavldom Divinarchy having possession of the smokepowder, and the trader Islands of Ierendei and Minrothad who may happen to have a trade route to those lands. But unfortunately, none of those nations can develop smokepowder, cause they don't have Steelseed, the primary ingredient in creating Mystaran Smokepowder. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 12:13:58 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gun powder? >But I'd like to have an explanation of why pistols didn't come in KW ffrom Savage Cost ??? well, mon ami, the main reason pistol aren't available in KW is that Smokepowder is a very rare and Expensive to get from the Savage Coast to obtain in order to reload your pistols, unless your PC happens to have available Teleport without Error Spells on hand then it would be a problem. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 12:21:56 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: [MYSTARA] - New PC Race: The Thoul Game Statistics (for D&D- I'll work out the AD&D in a later post) Ability Modifiers: +1 Str, +1 Con, -1 Int, -1 Dex. Natural AC: 8 Level XP HD Paralysis Regenerate Youngster -6000 1d8 Save+4;1d2turns +1 hp/hour Teenager -3000 2d8 Save+2; 1d4 t +1 hp/turn Normal Monster 0 3d8 SaveNorm; 2d4t +1 hp/round 1 6000 4d8 2 18000 5d8 3 42000 - 4 90000 6d8 5 186000 7d8 6 378000 8d8 7 678000 - 8 978000 9d8 9 1278000 +2 hp Each addt'l level (up to 36th) requires an additional 300,000 xp. 2 hit points are gained at each additional level (constitution bonuses no longer apply after 8th level, though). Special Abilities The Thoul has a natural regeneration ability, like the troll. Until reaching Normal Monster level, the regeneration ability is very slow. Unlike the troll, the Thoul's regeneration ability ceases to work upon death- in other words, once the Thoul hits 0 hp, he ceases to exist. No healing, save for magical means of resuscitation, willwork. Multiple Attacks- the Thoul can attack twice per round with its claws, if need be, doing 1d3 points of damage per attack. Paralysis- The Thoul has the natural ability to cause paralysis with the merest touch of its skin to another. This ability grows slowly, as seen on the charts. At Youngster level, recipients gain a +4 to their saves to resist this ability, and its duration isn't as long as a normal ghouls. By normal monster level, this ability is similar to the ghoul. It can paralyze any creature of ogre size or smaller, save for elves, other thouls, and undead. As a side note, Thouls have proven immune to the paralysis of ghouls (and possibly other undead as well). DM's Option: Thoul Shamans As noted in the Rules Cyclopedia, Thouls may have Shamans and Wokans among their ranks. An interesting option for PC Thouls is to allow them, alone among the ranks of the humanoid Shamans, to control Undead. This ability will be the equivalent of the Cleric's turning, but rather than turn undead, a number of undead equivalent to the turn roll will be under the Shaman's control. The rules for this ability otherwise follow the rules for undead lieges and pawns. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #243 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Saturday, April 25 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 244 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Circles Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) [MYSTARA] - Ethengar v.s. _________ Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) Re: [MYSTARA] - Ispans . . . and the roaring 9th century Re: [MYSTARA] - Ahem...Glantri, Ethengar, and others... Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar v.s. _________ Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) [MYSTARA] - This is just a test Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Circles Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) [MYSTARA] - campaign cartographer Re: [MYSTARA] - Alchemists Healing People Re: [MYSTARA] - Other adversaries... Re: [MYSTARA] - Ahem...Glantri, Ethengar, and others... [MYSTARA] - Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Take a Chill Pill Re: [MYSTARA] - Alchemists Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) Re: [MYSTARA] - A Blackmoor question... [MYSTARA] - Regarding Messages of an "Immature" Nature Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Messages of an "Immature" Nature Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Messages of an "Immature" Nature Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alchemists Healing People Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Circles Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] ???????? Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Take a Chill Pill ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 15:29:10 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Circles They are, if you allow them to be common. I plan on running an "all mage" campaign sometime in the future. I plan on tossing subtle hooks out there but if no player picks up on them, they are not going to get in. I believe the very secretiveness of the orders are what balance them. Even if you are lucky enough to get inducted, you have to prove yourself to be trustworthy and discreet. A dracologist who uses his power willy nilly is not going to be a favored dinner guest at any dracologist's party. At 05:59 PM 4/24/98 +0100, you wrote: >About these secret circles - how do you all fit them into your campaigns? Do you think they are a bit overpowered? (Dracology springs to mind...). >This isn't an Ethie/Glantrian thing - I just want to know if any DMs out there use them, or allow PCs to join one. >Because I think they are a tad gross... >Cheerz >ROB >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 15:50:46 EDT From: CRlPTONITE Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) << One question -- even though we know why Alphatia sank, why would the people of Mystara have even the faintest clue? IIRC, most would think that the cause was either the "Wrath of the Immortals" for whatever sins the Alphatians were guilty of or a simple natural disaster with no intelligent cause. >> It's pretty simple. At the time, Alphatia was at war with Glantri. Both are far superior to any other country in magical capibilities and comprehension. Any disaster would be thought of as a magical attack from the other country. Plus, since Mystara has not seen a disaster even close of this magnitude in 4000 years, it would not be thought of as a natural occurance. So the public would think of it as a Glantri attack and Glantri wouldn't deny it. - --- -- --Criptonite *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 15:58:17 EDT From: CRlPTONITE Subject: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar v.s. _________ >>Why would Ethengar invade Glantri? >After the events of WotI, Moglai Khan badly needs some victories to shore up his position among the Ethengar tribes. A successful campaign against Glantri would do the trick quite nicely. Ethengar does need a victory. They need one soon because the public is getting frustrated. The Khan has to attack someone or he will quickly loose support and be replaced. I think he would attack the weakest country around just to get a win and retain leadership. Glantri would be out of the question in this scenario. Who could be Ethengars victim? - --- -- --Criptonite *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 16:09:55 EDT From: CRlPTONITE Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) >No supply lines!!! >But teleport can't sustain whole armies. Gate is a powerful spell... << But a little bit clumsy in this matter. To what place should this hypothetic gate kead? Jamuga Khan >> Before the teleporting and opening of gates start, I'm wondering what damage the cutting of the supply lines would do to Glantri? They seem to be pretty self-sufficient. Many of the principalities grow their own food and make their own wine (ex. Fenswick and Nouvelle Avergoine). IIRC Aalban makes the majority of weapons, shields and armor. And Glantri needs no help with magic. - --- -- --Criptonite *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 16:32:33 -0500 From: John Normand Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ispans . . . and the roaring 9th century BoBo II wrote: >Found the following on the Unoffical Mystaran timeline on the web (thanks Daniel): >"902 AC: The Barony of Narvaez is founded along the Savage Coast by an expedition of Ispan people from the distant Thyatian Empire. Narvaez claims a great deal of land, from the Claw Peninsula to the Bay of the Siren (Baia da Sereia), including land already occupied by human, elven, dwarven, and tortle inhabitants. (RS)" >Okay RS and Thyatian fans/experts out there, who were these folks, where in the empire do they come from, where are they in the post-Wrath thyatis, and when did they influence the Belcadiz elves (or vis versa). >Thanks, >BoBoII >PS: take a look at this timeline and tell me that a campaign set in the 800's wouldn't be a lot of fun. >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. actually, the Thyriod empire is found along the hermphrodite isles, on a young virgin beach of the saddle sore variety. Some explorers believe that amazon lesbians have found the secret of KY Jelly, and thus have attempted forge a +5 sword of penertration. Therefore, Haduken is not shouted from the rooftops of the tittyville Harlem choir. And furthermore, John Lennon is dead. Good evening. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 17:47:39 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ahem...Glantri, Ethengar, and others... >Actually, Jaggar is the Star Dragon. A little confusing perhaps, but true. He has agreed to not use that particular power though, so as not to irritate the lawful dragons. Impressed with his restraint, the lawful dragons have decided to serve him anyway. >Jagger cannont turn into the Star Dragon the star dragon is another name fore >one of the Dragon Immortals. And Jagger I don't believe is an immortal. Both of these posts are incorrect for a few reasons. Jaggar was the star dragon, when he defeated the Immortal, and did in fact become an Immortal in defeating the star dragon. However, with all the tension of a "human" attaining that staus Jaggar graciously relinquished his title and thus was no longer the star dragon and he also lost his Immortality with it. Now, he does still have the ability to assume the Star Dragon form, and this has nothing to do with the whole Immortal Star dragon deal. It's because he has attained the 5th circle of Dracology. This is a unique spot in which only one can obtain at a time. This allows him to take the form of the star dragon. So in the end, he may become a star dragon and it doesn't anger the Immortals since he was honorable enough to give up his title. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 17:49:05 EDT From: The Athar Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar v.s. _________ << Who could be Ethengars victim? >> Maybe the countries of the Northern Reaches (Ostland, Vestland, etc.)? I mean, they're not *weak*, but they're fairly disorganized..being vikings and all. - - Technocrat *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 17:53:24 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) << << >No supply lines!!! But teleport can't sustain whole armies. Gate is a powerful spell... >> But a little bit clumsy in this matter. To what place should this hypothetic gate kead? >> Since when has Glantri had any problem getting food in any way? They don't need to teleport or gate food. They all have it in their country. It's one of thier main exports. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 17:54:19 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: [MYSTARA] - This is just a test Ok. This should fix it all. Is anyone receiving this on Mystara? Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 17:59:23 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Circles >About these secret circles - how do you all fit them into your campaigns? Do you think they are a bit overpowered? (Dracology springs to mind...). TThis isn't an Ethie/Glantrian thing - I just want to know if any DMs out there use them, or allow PCs to join one. BBecause I think they are a tad gross... They are in my campaigns. I've never had a problem with using them. A bit overpowered? Well, what exactly are you talking about when you say overpowered? What part of which circle? and, yes i do allow PCs to join them. Most have stayed around first circle due to the expenses that come with it. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 18:02:21 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) >And the Alchemists can't raise the dead either. (A very few necromancers can but they'd probably keep that fact secret. Also it's a lot more dangerous for them than it is for a cleric.) Sorry, but if you haven't seen Etienne wish everyone in his family back to life again and again on multiple occasions....then you really don't know Glantri. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 18:07:55 EDT From: Flindor Subject: [MYSTARA] - campaign cartographer I am working on a module and am interested in Campaing Cartographer. If anybody has any experience with it, I would appreciate any comments. Is it worth $80? How easy is it to use? What do you like about it? Not like about it? etc., etc. Are there any maps on the net made with it? I don't want to end up buying something I'll end up not using or hating. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 18:20:38 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alchemists Healing People << Glantrians dont hate healing, they hate clerics. Casting a clerical spell I presume involves beseeching the Immortals to help (By the power of Ixion may you be cleansed of disease!), rubbing holy symbols a lot and such. Glantrians hate this, not the healing. I'm sure that a necromancer could splint together bones and such (in the Complete Book of Necromancers they can, anyway), and they wouldn't get lynched for this. The act of healing isn't illegal in Glantri! Religion, however, is. >> If you or someone else developes more healing spells for mages, I demand fireballs, icestorms, lightning and some other effective combat spell for the clerics. Of course the difference between mages and clerics were the armours and weapons of the latter, but I like clerics more than mages. << As an aside, how about Glantrian alchemists making some esoteric poison, harmless to cattle but lethal to humans, and spreading this gunk over Ethengar? Or come to think of it some chemical like Agent Orange which the US used in Vietnam? Ethengar could become another desert. I don't think so either, but if you reckon Cause Disease is contagious I cannot see any problem with the above. Glantrian Alchemy basically creates any potion effect or any chemical compound the Alchemist can think of. How about some uranium to spread liberally all over the plains? >> Do you really think that Ethengar couldn't handle that? You surprise me... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 18:20:34 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Other adversaries... << Also Thyatis is not in such a bad way as people make out. It is 5 years after the War of Wrath - and look at the NACE. Alphatia sunk! Thyatis was merely hammered. Thyatis should really be in a better state than the NACE - and the NACE is becoming very powerful. >> OTOH Thyatis has lost this war against Thothia. The Pharao did some really nasty things... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 01:07:56 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #244 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 18:20:39 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ahem...Glantri, Ethengar, and others... << I think Jaggar's Principality alone could take Ethengar to be honest with you. That's the main reason as to why I wouldn't waste my time in playing it out. >> And why he hadn't start his beloved war alone? Be reasonable! Jaggar knows that Ethengar might beat Glantri some day and that he must attack before - with all the power Glantri can muster. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 18:20:40 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: [MYSTARA] - Immortals << Wait a minute...... >Would Jaggar turn into the Star Dragon and bring a couple of huge gold dragons to the fight?< Jagger cannont turn into the Star Dragon the star dragon is another name fore one of the Dragon Immortals. And Jagger I don't believe is an immortal. >> According to GAZ 3 Jaggar IS the Star Dragon! According to the Dragonlord trilogy some centuries ago Thelwynn was the Star Dragon. According to PWA'S and GKOM Jaggar IS NOT the Star Dragon! Thank you very much, TSR!! Now we can choose what we like... Anyhow, some aspects of the seven secret crafts were simply unbalanced. This idea to became an immortal by simply fighting against him... IMHO it's a unappropiate shortway. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 18:20:42 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Take a Chill Pill << << I don't see how Cimarron could stand against Ethengar. >> ::chuckles:: I do....one word.....BOOM......smokepowder.....It would be over before it started. IMHO of course. But the chances of this happening anyhow are..oh.....slim to none.... >> I knew that this argument would follow. But look what some Indian tribes achieved against the colonists, and the Ethengar have a completely different attitude against warfare. They are trained to fight against mages! They have hakomons, clerics and shamans! They would soon discover and USE smokepowder. Additionally they would attack when the Ethengarian brataks have spied out all important secrets. I'm sorry, but Cimmarron would have no chance. Compare it with Europe against the Mongols. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 18:24:10 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alchemists >If you have a mage class in Glantri that is numerous and well known, it really takes away from the role of clerics in the game. I don't believe this was the intention in Gaz3. Are you talking about any mage class, or just the Alchemists? Either way, i don't believe this takes away the role of clerics. Alchemists can't do what clerics can do at all. The only thing in common is the Alchemists ability to heal. Clerics aren't healers. They are much more. They use all the priestly spheres they can to get thier goals accomplished. So what, if a tiny group of mages can have the ability equal to low-level healing? >Opposing clerics are not neutralized by Glantri. Glantri has deprived itself of one >form of power. They didn't get rid of a power. They got rid of a certain type of people. Not healing or healers, but religious people and thier beliefs. I think this is the point we keep getting stuck at. It's not as if they banned all spells from the priestly spheres. They don't care about that. They just got rid of the one type of people. I do however, agree that it is a weakness. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 17:47:37 -0500 From: John Normand Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) Inconu wrote: ><< << >No supply lines!!! >But teleport can't sustain whole armies. Gate is a powerful spell... >> >But a little bit clumsy in this matter. To what place should this hypothetic gate kead? >> >Since when has Glantri had any problem getting food in any way? They don't need to teleport or gate food. They all have it in their country. It's one of thier main exports. >-Inconu >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. the whoremaster has arrived in town. If you attack, he'll give you a blowjob +1. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 17:55:46 -0500 From: John Normand Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Blackmoor question... JamugaKhan wrote: ><< I've been working on a personal project involving the polymar race (from DDDA2, Monstrous Compendium 2) and i was wondering: Thonia was north or south of Blackmoor according to DA modules? I don't wanna open again the debate "Where the heck is Blackmoor": i only need a simple straight answer based on DA modules. >> >South of Blackmoor! The Iron Duke was south of Blackmoor and he ruled the northernmost province of Thonia. >Jamuga Khan >"Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. the whole world has gone crazy over here. help *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 16:31:24 -0700 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Messages of an "Immature" Nature MML'ers: Sorry, in advance, for this 'off topic post'. Someone has been sending "immature" messages (for lack of a better term) to the list. I have sent a note to Leroy to ensure that they come to his attention (as we all know, he doesn't always read everything, and these were embeded as responses to running threads). Please do not give the poster the satisfaction of any further responses to this drivel, or any future occurances of the same -- he likely only sent them in the hopes of sparking the ire of someone on the list. Let him stew in the blast of our restrained silence instead. I'm sure Leroy will deal with the person as best he sees fit. Now back to your regularly scheduled MML Messages. Jenni A. M. Merrifield - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield http://www.jamm.com/jenni/home.html - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- strawberry@jamm.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 19:34:14 -0500 From: John Normand Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Messages of an "Immature" Nature Jenni A. M. Merrifield wrote: >MML'ers: >Sorry, in advance, for this 'off topic post'. >Someone has been sending "immature" messages (for lack of a better term) to the list. I have sent a note to Leroy to ensure that they come to his attention (as we all know, he doesn't always read everything, and these were embeded as responses to running threads). >Please do not give the poster the satisfaction of any further responses to this drivel, or any future occurances of the same -- he likely only sent them in the hopes of sparking the ire of someone on the list. Let him stew in the blast of our restrained silence instead. >I'm sure Leroy will deal with the person as best he sees fit. >Now back to your regularly scheduled MML Messages. >Jenni A. M. Merrifield >-=> strawberryJAMM <=- >-- >Jenni A. M. Merrifield http://www.jamm.com/jenni/home.html -=> strawberryJAMM <=- strawberry@jamm.com >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. first off we would like 2 say that we had a bunch of people here 4 the past week, second thank u 4 telling us bout this infraction of useage of my pc, next i wpuld ask that u tell me the time that this immature mannered person sent this message, lastly do not think badly of us 4 wut our friends do,we new at ad&d we dont yet know all we need 2 so please let us know if any1 does this again......... thank u johnfoxx, akira, & kain *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 21:12:22 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Messages of an "Immature" Nature At 07:34 PM 4/24/98 -0500, you wrote: >Jenni A. M. Merrifield wrote: >first off we would like 2 say that we had a bunch of people here 4 the past week, second thank u 4 telling us bout this infraction of useage of my pc, next i wpuld ask that u tell me the time that this immature mannered person sent this message, lastly do not think badly of us 4 wut our friends do,we new at ad&d we dont yet know all we need 2 so please let us know if any1 does this again......... tthank u I am going to request that you write out words like "anyone" and "too". Your message was too darn confusing and hard to read. Also, be careful where you place your message. Erase anything from the previous which is unimportant in your reply. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 00:26:03 EDT From: BoBo II Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alchemists Healing People In a message dated 4/24/98 1:34:55 PM, you wrote: <> You're always welcome, Techno. You're using a modem of fire resistance as far as I'm concerned. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 00:30:20 EDT From: BoBo II Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Circles I used them as power players, membership restricted like secret fraternities, many of which started at the GSoM. I had one player who was a Dracologist, but he was low circle and I actually used it as a campaign hook. He was sent out on a mission by the Circle and in one circumstance he was publicly arrested by a circle brother, then secretly released. But he knew he could not let down his Masters in the pyramid. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 00:36:18 EDT From: BoBo II Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar In a message dated 4/24/98 1:56:04 PM, you wrote: <<. as for Thyatis, the only treacherous elements is the Emperor, and his Senate, as well as elements of his ruling class,>> I dunno . . . it may be only poor memory on my part but I recall most of the Gaz have the "local" voices always cast a wary eye on the "oily Thyatians." Even if it is just the Imperial beaurocracy, but for me,the Empire is fun if the centuries of rule have made it feel a little like stepping into a production of Julius Ceasar/Titus Andronicus/Coriolanus/I Claudius . . . watch your back! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 00:49:07 EDT From: BoBo II Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] ???????? In a message dated 4/24/98 2:47:47 PM, you wrote: <Bye, >Anakin How bout every paladin in a three hex radius feeling "something wrong" and coming to investigate . . This could lead to a whole "do the ends justify the means-themed story. As the hero uses the powerful weapon do good things (kill terrorizing monsters, repel invaders, right wrongs, etc.) he starts to feel "devilish impulses," like cynicism, cruel jokes on others and a growing unhumanity in appearance and behavior. Meanwhile his companions have troubled dreams of the swords past deeds, etc. How he deals with it are up to you, but it might be a nice role-play scenario to have his friends have to "intervene" when he says "I don't have a problem, I can put this sword down anytime I want . . .can't I Precious, yes, nice Precious." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 01:01:09 EDT From: BoBo II Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Take a Chill Pill In a message dated 4/24/98 5:44:54 PM, you wrote: < Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - campaign cartographer I have CC2 and have found it most useful. There is a mailing list that you may find useful. It is a CAD package so the learning curve can be quite steep but it is worth persevering with. An example map can be found on my site at http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8306/avondaleanddalskyr.html There are a number of people who have produced maps in CC format of the whole of the Known World and others who are working on the Forgotten Realms and Greyhawk. Alan Jones ***************************************************************** For web based information the cc-l/cc-l-digest visit: http://magellan.onramp.net/cgi-bin/lwgate/cc-l/ http://magellan.onramp.net/cgi-bin/lwgate/cc-l-digest/ For sample files for CC1/CC2 goto: http://vweb02.onramp.net/~mikew/dnd/cc-l-files/ To unsubscribe email majordomo@onramp.net with message body of "unsubscribe cc-l" to signup for digest "subscribe cc-l-digest" ***************************************************************** Alan Jones aka Trimus D'Alberon / Thoria Hammerwrecker / Deris Of Clan Blackstar / Jodotha "It is the spirit of the game, not the letter of the rules, which is important" - Gary Gygax http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8306/index.html - -----Original Message----- From: Flindor To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM Date: 24 April 1998 23:25 Subject: [MYSTARA] - campaign cartographer >I am working on a module and am interested in Campaing Cartographer. If anybody has any experience with it, I would appreciate any comments. Is it worth $80? How easy is it to use? What do you like about it? Not like about >it? etc., etc. Are there any maps on the net made with it? I don't want to >end up buying something I'll end up not using or hating. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 01:18:20 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Players accepted for PBEM Hello, I am now accepting a few more players for my Mystaran Birthright PBEM. It is set in the world of Mystara, but follows the Birthright rules. Familiarity with Mystara is good but not required. However, you *do* have to own and be familiar with BR rules. If you would like to join the game, go to the PBEM page at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/mystbr.html and look at the game application guidelines. ************ Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 11:37:18 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) >>And the Alchemists can't raise the dead either. (A very few necromancers can but they'd probably keep that fact secret. Also it's a lot more dangerous for them than it is for a cleric.) I'm afraid Alchemists actually can resurrect people (its their 4th circle ability, so they can do it at 14th level...) Alchemists do it Frankenstein style - bolt of lightning and a few arcane devices. Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 11:44:31 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Circles >They are in my campaigns. I've never had a problem with using them. A bit overpowered? Well, what exactly are you talking about when you say overpowered? What part of which circle? Well, one of my friends once ran a one off Planescape bash where everyone got to play a character from their favourite campaign world - so we ended up with a Glantrian wizard(me), a Knight of the Sword from Krynn, a tiefling thief from Planescape and an elven fighter/mage from Evermeet. We all had the special stuff from each campaign world (like the Knight of the Sword casting spells, Evermeet spells for the elf mage etc.). It was fairly high level (around 12 for the single classes), and I had the 3rd Circle of Dracology, with crystalline dragon as the selected dragon type. And those Dracology abilities were far superior to all the stuff the Evermeet mage was capable of (and they have some gross spells)... I mean that Dragon Tooth ability is death if cast upon anyone who can't get rid of it with a dispel magic. That lasts until five hits (from a dragon bite, that = death). And the other circles are pretty hard, as well. Dream Magic means anyone lower level than you are can be hypnotised, reprogrammed, tortured nightly etc. Necromancy means you can churn out an army of wights (or at higher levels, undead beholders(!)). Cryptomancy is limited only by the mages imagination. Elementalism gives you a permanent set of bodyguards all immune to nonmagical weapons. Wokanism is a cross between Dream Magic and Alchemy. And we all know what Alchemy can do... Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 11:49:58 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Alchemists Guilds I think Alchemists would be bound by very tight rules by the Alchemists Guild. They are capable of making gold!!! This sort of thing has to be monitored by the Powers that Be. A group of wizards able to make (and sell) expensive potions and turn rocks to diamonds is going to upset a lot of merchants. I'm sure Darokin would not be happy if they knew that a bunch of Glantrian wizards were undermining their economy by producing several tons of platinum a month. (Alchemy is probably the most powerful circle in my opinion). I reckon that Alchemists would have severe restrictions on what they can market. Something like - youcan use your abilities for personal use only. Alchemists undercutting merchants by making precious metals for next to nothing are soon going to be the subject of scrutiny. Which means that it isn't a secret circle anymore! Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 09:53:48 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Vanya in Alphatia In a message dated 98-04-21 17:14:14 EDT, DM writes: << Hi all! Hope this gets thru.. If i may add my 2 passems to the discussion, i'd choose either Ixion or Valerias, and mainly for two reasons. First, Vanya is definitely The THYATIAN Immortal Guardian (she is the head of the thyatian pantheon, and she too did consider Thyatis as her favourite land, until the recent discussions with Thincol at least..) She was a Kerendan warrior princess in her own days, so when she became immortal she obviously became interested in her own folk, who ultimately founded the empire of Thyatis. And since Thyatis has always been fighting against Alphatia since the early days, i don't see how she could possibly support both factions..>> I agree that her tie to Thyatis outweighs the warrior attitude of other nations that would appeal to her. However that warrior aspect could draw her attention and praises. I was influenced in this by two means: 1) Into the Maelstrom where Vanya can potentially favor/support the Alphatian cause if things go a certain way. 2) the Asterias deal during Wrath. in it Asterius lost a temple or two to fire. these being in Alphatia and his being allied to Rad. And since Alphatia has been the adversary of Thyatis for so long, would it not be prudent that the patroness of conquest take a long hard look at her favorite folks' rival. Perhaps seeing something appealling in the hardcase Randel warriors. <> First off, I never said she would be THE patron of conquest. More likely just part of the Alphatian pantheon. In my description of Randel she is a minor Immortal in everyday life. In times of war, you see an increase of follwers (not clerics) and most noticably soldiers utter a silent prayer to Vanya to give them strength and prowness as they engage the enemy. There are at present three NPC clerics of Vanya and no established temples dedicated to her. << Also, remember that it was Ixion vs Rad that caused the war, so if Rad has Glantri, and the war was primarly Glantri vs Alphatia, who do u think is Alphatia's main deity of conquest?>> Not sure if I would cast Ixion as the main diety of Alphatia. I am sure he would have a following there as any self respecting sun god would. The power of Ixion is enough to insure that even the Alphatians pay some homage. My guess is that Alphatia was the most obvious and powerful adversary against Glantri. Alphatia needed little coaxing to go at it with Glantri. Alphatia also had the magical know how to standup to Glantri as well as have a vested interest in negating the use of the Radiance. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 10:48:34 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Just one more word...(couldnt resist) In a message dated 98-04-21 18:43:30 EDT, you write: << As to answering a couple of points - I agree, numbers aren't everything - they are just one factor. >> Yes, tactics and training can make amends for the lack of numbers. Having massive amounts of troops available works in attrition based battles. This is the achilles heel of the Ethie. Ecellent horseman capable of stupendous maneuver ability. However, these skills are from a life on the steppes and not easily replaced as conventional armies. <> But that would suck as the fantasy element is gone. Or worse, Alphatia could take an aspect of the Blackmoor and really rule the world. But with magic Alphatia has achieved many of these technological advances and remained within the fantasy realm. Aircraft- skyships (not all skyships are big, hulking, expensive Man-of-Wars) Apollo- voidships Communication- spells and magic items. AI- Intelligent magical items. Warp drive- planar travel Fantastic Engineering- Fantasy engineering The Pit, impossible constructions such as towers. <> These are the same Zulus that erradicated the regular British Army the previous day to Rourkes Drift. BTW the Zulus were considered to be the top military power in Africa. And it was as much overzealousness on the part of the Zulu reserve that proved disasterous at Rourkes Drift. Attacking defensive lines were a no- no in the Zulu book of warfare. But seems a grouping of young Zulu warriors had not partaken in the previous battle and wanted their share of glory. So passion ruled unwisely and the Zulu reserve attacked a defended fortification. BTW the movie Zulu was well done and is an excellant representation to the actual battle. But I see your point about troop ratios. But IMO the tech level is secondary to skill level. The two armies are both formidable in their own right. To try to compare the two types is like comparing apples and oranges. Speculation as to an outcome is one thing, but to prove or disprove them is an action only resolved via the fire and brimstone of war. And such a war is not a final descision as you have an abundance of would be generals here on the List. How I would run the war scenario may (and probably will) differ from others. << And the Glantrians are well led.>> LOL. By who? Jaggar? Jaggar is one man and his war experience is rather limited, focusing on humanoids and the like. And Jaggar is under the influences of a certain "Princess" that would truly relish the chaos a war going badly for Glantri would cause. Glantri's other able commanders are there even after WotI. But can this multiheaded snake work in cohesion. This infighting also goes for the domestic situation. In the RW Holy Crusades it was commonplace for nobles to take advantage of the war to better their own positions. <> DDC is a negotiating sect. As such, their involvement would occur probably after the war has started. And I doubt the aggressor (either Glantri or Ethie based on individual scenario) would allow foreknowledge of the attack to be known. As a negotiating faction, the DDC would come in and try to work out a settlement or treaty. Depending on the situation, concessions and such would have to be given by both sides. Also the DDC would only be allowed to intervene if one side was losing or a stalemate had insued. Regardless, I am sure the Ethie/Glantri border will be much different. << And I reckon the Heldannic Territories would be up for attacking Ethengar. They are opportunists - and they almost suffered when fighting Ethies in WotI. They'll be itching for some payback. At the very least, the Khan would have to divide his forces to cover his Heldannic borders, just in case. And that would weaken his assault.>> Not really. Alot depends on how Vanya sees the situation. This war would not have the cause of aiding Thyatis against Alphatia. Instead it would be a war of clerics, shamans, and warriors against a nation of cleric hating mages that can be seen as a former ingracious ally. Most likely the Knights would stay out of the conflict allowing Glantri and the Ethie kill each other off to more easily conquerable levels. Afterward the Knights could go to war and enact their own empire building. << I think that these sort of arguments could be used for any country in the KW - which is why it is relatively stable. It's a situation of Balance of Power - no single country can get an advantage over the others. Thats the reason I like Mystara the most out of all campaign worlds - its realistic in that sense.>> I agree about the balance. But I disagree about stable. True national bounderies stay roughly the same but there are wars going on pretty much Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 21:34:01 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #245 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com constantly. << :-) This is like arguing about politics IRL! I guess we could all argue forever and a day - the issue is very close, and not clearcut. Lady Luck rules the roost on this one...>> Luck of the dice is one thing. But serious tactical deployment is another. Tactics and manuever rule the battlefield. However, part of these tactics involve the nation's complete war machine. Having a big honking army is nice but is deployment feasible. Some armies are designed specifically for defense, others for offense. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 16:35:01 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Just one more word...(couldnt resist) >These are the same Zulus that erradicated the regular British Army the previous day to Rourkes Drift. Yeah, that was the time when the Brits couldn't get the lids off the ammo boxes... I don't know if people saw the point of me comparing Alphatia to 20th century technology. The intention was to say that the Glantrian army is probably roughly equivalent to a 19th century army, except that the Glantrians use magic instead of technology. I thought it would better illustrate the situation because of the use of all these RW equivalents - ie Mongols vs Rome. I was pointing out that a better analogy would be Zulus vs Brits... Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:00:03 -0400 From: Daly Subject: [MYSTARA] - The TSR boards! We are ruling the TSR message boards!!!!!!! With 466 messages at last count we are well beyond all other boards at the site (except the general "DM's" board). Also, a quick look at some of the threads on other boards revealed to me that we have a very mature "progression minded" bunch of people. Are messages are polite to each other, they do not use foul language, they are geared toward development of the setting. Even if we are merely a vocal minority, WotC cannot help but see the potential in reviving our beloved world. Go here to sign on to the boards: http://tsronline.wizards.com:80/mb/system/addnewuser.shtml Now more than ever you should express your views on how Mystara should be brought back: http://cmnwrld.com/forumbin/SaveMystara/ There are only 10 messages at the above address. Surely more than just 10 of us have opinions on Mystara's resurrection!? And, once again, if you are interested in joining the SaveMystara Writer's Group, email me personally with "Mystaran Writers" as your subject. So far we have a nice number of people. The goal of the group is to get as many adventures and articles to the periodicals as we can in a quick amount of time. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 11:58:17 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dark elves, Tylion, and Tylari In a message dated 98-04-22 14:15:49 EDT, you write: << In the Northern Reaches GAZ it says that the moulder dwarves learned a great deal of their black arts from dark elves. These elves are described as having dark skin, serving Entropic Immortals, and being masters of evil magic and the making of evil artifacts. Since there are no drow on Mystara(no source says there are drow on Mystara, though the Northern Reaches GAZ and an arcade game called D&D Tower of Doom imply that there are), who exactly are these elves?>> Not sure about the idea of Drow on Mystara. That is all the elves need is another malefactor. I have a trio of modules based on the Tower of Doom. IIRC it was part of that First Quest stuff. Local gameshop had it for cheap so I grabbed it. I'd have to dig them out and check. <> Well the Alphatian Emperors are prone to taking the names of earlier Emperors. Alphas IV (or maybe its VI) succeded Kerothar VI (?) who derided his name from the first Alphatian Emperor on Mystara Emperor Kerothar leader of the Air Mages. I might have the names Alphas and Kerothar mixed up so forgive me if that be the case. I do not have DotE handy. Anyway, Tylion (Eriadna's dad) is the fourth, I think. The reference could be to one of the other Emperor Tylions. IIRC in DotE after the initial reference of an Emperor as Tylion IV, the numeric suffix is dropped and no other reference made. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 11:40:19 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - WoTI Lightning Zombies In a message dated 98-04-22 10:15:04 EDT, you write: << I was rereading the WoTI stuff last night and I read something interesting about the lightning zombies. It says that they could be capapble of level advancment. I was wondering if anyone had done anything with them. I mean the entire 'race' of zombies isn't very numerous. with just those people that had died in the presence of the shield being animated but they are intelligent undead and they don't look terribly bad so... anyone done anything with em? >> Well IIRC Lightening Zombies can also be created elsewhere besides those created by Benekander's shield. The AD&D Mystara Monstrous Compendium has them listed. IIRC the text says that the lightening zombies are created by power ebbed from a powerful artifact unto the corpes of slain folks. Surely this description bears merit as it could be integrated into other situations where an immortal artifact rests. Given the artifact's powers and expected guardians, not every PC/NPC is bound to suceed in gaining the artifact. As such, the possibility of the corpses of these would be artifact acquirers being turned to lightening zombies is quite good. A most interesting situation if a party led by a would be immortal candidate comes across the remnants of his predecessors. Bait them with the decomposed corpses of those fallen outside of the affected range of the artifact. As they close in, they are confronted by folks that act very much alive. They are dead of course but hey they can be fun in a game situation. An excellant situation for roleplaying. The LZs are actually nice and helpful and offer loads of background info, but cannot explain much prior to their realization of being there. Now I am not talking about lightening zombies everywhere. Be selective and reasonable in their placement. And remember that they are of need for a purpose as they are not mindless undead. Have the leader still out trying for Immortality though he is unsure why or how. Have them acting as protectors of the artifact, possibly aided by the immortal that created the artifact. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:24:34 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) In a message dated 98-04-22 15:29:13 EDT, you write: << >I was responding to the idea that Glantri could beat Ethengar based on ttechnological advancement. So your question could work either way. It does not have much to do with the point I was making though. Since the Mongols ran over much of western Europe, we know that the more technologically superior force does not always win. I could also point out Custer's Last Stand... All I know is that is not the Native Americans calling the shots (excuse the pun) in the US of A. Technology won the war - individual battles arent so relevant in my opinion.>> Not only technology (which was the biggest factor) but also attrition and subversive eradication of the indian foodsupply (buffs) and the indian way of life (reservations). A warrior society such as that of the american indians is castrated if placed in an agricultural based role. Plus the native americans lacked the industrial capacity to manufacture ammo. << > >Okay real quick! Race to give me the name of this Colonel. He started out as an English teacher. See if you can beat Alex to the punch! Colonel Chamberlain - he got the Medal of Honor for it. (and I'm not even American!). I might point out that Chamberlain was entrenched in a defensive position at the top of a heavily forested hill (Little Round Top, if i recall). However in an Ethengarian conflict it would be the Glantrians on top of hills in entrenched positions. Bayonet charges are feasible down hills covered with thick vegetation. I imagine they are less feasible when on horseback, riding up a bare, rocky mountain, with Fort Tchernovodsk to look forward to at the top.>> Who? :-) But seriously, a fortified position is a daunting objective. The above mentioned Fort, Fredricksburg of US Civil War, The Gustav Line of WW2, and numerous others. But forts, even high tech ones, are not invincible. The Maginoit Line was countered, Eban Emual (sp) was stormed using tactics, and for a more ancient history aspect, the fortress city of Tyre was breached by Alexander. Then there is Mesada, but that include the Romans who were experts at seiges. The will and foreknowledge for tactics is needed to breach fortified positions. In Mystara, a few teleported troops here and there could do wonders. Ya listening Jeff? Hint hint....those unicorns of yours....wink wink. <> Only after dark. Plus a superstitious people like the Ethie are bound to hold more faith in holy symbols, so an ordinary warrior can expect some protection after dark. Not as good as a garlic tie but better than nothing. Plus pickets could have the ole clerics cast Bless on weapons to peirce the undead's flesh. << And Ethengarian priests? Sorry, but Clovefoot, Wobblebelly and the other one don't scare me. I'm sure they scare Jaggar even less.>> Never asked him so I do not know. Seriuosly, clerics are obviously not known in Glantri. It can also be expected that knowledge of their power, strengths, and weaknesses are a mystery to the Glantrians. Glantri mages might be most surprised at justwhat a cleric can do. And if they have littlew clue as to a clerics potential then a shaman is totally foriegn. << And a note about this "catching Glantri unprepared" thing. Jaggar has been planning the day that Ethengar attacks since he was in his crib. And he is a smart cookie. I'm sure he has some devilishly fiendish strategies for the Khan and his rabble.>> I have to agree with you here. I doubt a Ethie massing would go unnoticed even if the Council is fully embroilled in inner squabbling. The question is in how fast the Glantrians can mobilize defense forces to the area to hold the Ethie. The Ethie are sure to make some territorial gains against the regional defenses. However, once sufficient forces arrive the real battle begins. Now what Hule does while the Glantrians are embroilled with the Ethie...... And it should be added that the Khan has a few trickes up his sleeves for the Glantrians. But that is where tactics and commander skill and cunning come in. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:47:13 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ahem...Glantri, Ethengar, and others... In a message dated 98-04-23 20:48:31 EDT, you write: << <> >> I have no problem with this. In fact, I have already entertained this thought. In fact, a few non Mystaran buddies are preparing to battle each other. I chose them as they do not have preknowledge of each other's national adversary. What they will know is what I tell them and will be confined to what I feel the sides would know about. The battle will be set in Post Wrath period. I'll get together the two sides order of battle to post. You asked for it...... Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:38:36 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) In a message dated 98-04-22 23:26:45 EDT, you write: << That is it. I am tired of this endless debate of war. Wendar comes into the war and blows both Glantri and Ethengar off the map. THERE SATISFIED!!!!! LOL.....you may be opening another can of worms. Oh my, the logistics of Wendar alone would be hazzardous. Not only that but with so little source info, the debate would be most chaotic as opinions and interjections would most certainly outweigh facts. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 17:20:26 EDT From: Duncan TKD Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dark elves, Tylion, and Tylari The Tower of Doom arcade game and the Tower of Doom boxed set are two different things entirely. The Tower of Doom boxed set takes place in Thunder Rift, and deals with many, many, undead. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 21:27:53 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - What is the Radiance??? Robert Fry said: >Rain of Fire in 3000BC (nuclear war?). >The engines of the Beagle, however, became a powerful magical item thanks to some Old One intervention (I think), now known as the Nucleus of the Spheres. The Nucleus of the Spheres has power over all magic on the Prime Plane (at least, so it is hinted). To cut a long story short the Nucleus ended up buried far underground... by coincidence right under the Great School of Magic in Glantri.... >(Hmm. Perhaps the Broken Lands IS where Blackmoor once was? not far from the crash site - Glantri is north of the Broken Lands like the FSS Beagle was north of Blackmoor... and the Comeback Inn is inn the broken lands(lol)) There is an official source (either in GAZ 3, the HW boxed set, or some other supplement - can't remember), that states that the Immortals moved the Nucleus of the Spheres to that underground location, just as the Comeback Inn was moved as well by glaciers and by Immortal hands. Word from Bruce Heard, and from later supplements, says that Blackmoor "officially" lies in what is now northern Skothar, in the dark region at the north pole, where the outer world meets the Hollow World. Mind you, this doesn't dictate where you place Blackmoor - after all, we can do what we want. TTFN Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 21:33:34 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Location Of Blackmoor >Anyway, from my understanding, I thought that the Badlands were originally where Blackmoor was. I think I read that in the Wrath of the Immortals boxed set. I'll have to check it out later. It was mentioned in that book. My memory fails me alot here lately. In the older materials, it seemed to indicate that Blackmoor was on Brun. However, later supplements moved it to Skothar, hence the ongoing debate as to where it was. The "official" word on the matter is that it was on Skothar, and official sources (can't remember which) say that the Nucleus of the Spheres was placed in the underground cavern where it lay now by the Immortals, so this ties in with Blackmoor being on Skothar (they would have wanted to move it as far away as possible), and DA1 (Adventures in Blackmoor) mentions how the Comeback Inn was subjected to floods, glaciation, movement, and other factors, and, if Blackmoor lies on Skothar, then these forces could have moved it at least part of the way to Brun, and the Immortals took care of the rest. Anyhow, the decision is really yours, but an official ruling has been given (for those to whom it matters). Besides, Brun is the centre of action in the modern era, why should that continent have been the centre all along? Skothar deserves some kind of attention, and making it the old centre of civilization is a good way to do it, IMO. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #245 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Sunday, April 26 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 246 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Just one more word...(couldnt resist) Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Just one more word...(couldnt resist) Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) Re: [MYSTARA] - Other adversaries... Re: [MYSTARA] - Take a Chill Pill Re: [MYSTARA] - Alchemists Guilds Re: [MYSTARA] - Just one more word...(couldnt resist) Re: [MYSTARA] - Net Almanac Re: [MYSTARA] - Dark elves, Tylion, and Tylari Re: [MYSTARA] - The TSR boards! Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Take a Chill Pill Re: [MYSTARA] - Net Almanac [MYSTARA] - Those Elemental Planes [MYSTARA] - Selhomarr Gazetter [MYSTARA] - The Empire of Selhomarr: Introduction ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 22:50:44 EDT From: BoBo II Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Just one more word...(couldnt resist) In a message dated 4/25/98 10:12:39 AM, you wrote: < Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Just one more word...(couldnt resist) In a message dated 4/25/98 10:52:31 AM, you wrote: <> Sure, but I'd personally vote for 17th *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 23:04:21 EDT From: BoBo II Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) In a message dated 4/25/98 11:48:41 AM, you wrote: << Seriuosly, clerics are obviously not known in Glantri. It can also be expected that knowledge of their power, strengths, and weaknesses are a mystery to the Glantrians. Glantri mages might be most surprised at justwhat a cleric can do. And if they have littlew clue as to a clerics potential then a shaman is totally foriegn. I would think they are all too well known to any MU in Glantri and therefor seen as a threat to the Magocracy. Someone recently raised the point on the List (sorry, i'd give you credit if i'd saved the mail) of the Education, time, money, social-standing needed to become a wizard v. the faith required that might inspire any someone from any social class (even, say, a poor shepherd girl) and permit them access to miraculous magics. Its this restriction that keeps the power in the hands of the noble class and the basis, asi see it, of the restriction. The ideology might have followed the practicallity and greed of the wizards in the writing of the Light of Rad declarations. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 12:07:41 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals At 18.20 24/04/98 EDT, JamugaKhan wrote: >According to GAZ 3 Jaggar IS the Star Dragon! According to the Dragonlord trilogy some centuries ago Thelwynn was the Star Dragon. >According to PWA'S and GKOM Jaggar IS NOT the Star Dragon! >Thank you very much, TSR!! Now we can choose what we like... >Anyhow, some aspects of the seven secret crafts were simply unbalanced. This idea to became an immortal by simply fighting against him... IMHO it's a unappropiate shortway. According to Dragon #170: "(...) the High Master of dracomancers may challenge a lesser dragon ruler and replace it. In so doing the High Master does not attain Immortality, but merely gains the ability to rule dragons of the corresponding ethos.". >From the same source: "The Glantrian Wizard-Prince, Lord Jaggar von Drachenfels, became the Star Dragon (...)", but then he "withdrew his claim on the rulership of all lawful dragons, in exchange for wich he earned the Great One's absolution.". I'm not sure, but I think that article, by Bruce BTW, is available at TSR site. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 09:33:02 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) In a message dated 98-04-23 08:37:39 EDT, you write: << Food and water are logistical problems. A few teleport spells and you could supply the Glantrian army with food from Porto Escorpiao, if you are that way inclined...>> Teleport style supply is a viable means for short term and emergency situations. I have no problems with its use in such a situation. In fact, I have a teleport type deal with my Randel project. Albeit it it is limited to covertly moving troops in between the Randel Forts at the Randel Line and the nearest supply depot. <> Vampires are a dangerous adversary, especially enmass. But they are not invincible, game balance prohibits that. One thing I ommitted to my input on this subject is quite interesting. Let us say a Ethie thrust is halted by undead, lesser as well as vamps. A proportion of these slain are now vamps. These new vamps need food. If the Ethie were to pull back that venue of food would be gone, forcing these less controlled fledgeling vamps to seek sustinance elswhere (the locals). If left uncheck, a vampiric plague furthers, possibly spreading beyond the domain. This idea came from a discussion on the old TSR on AOL Ravenloft boards. This was in relation to the results of the Grim Harvest and the energy wave that turned the entire populace into undead. << As for Glantri attacking Ethengar - I can't see how Glantri could do it. As a nation they are so divided. Presumably for a nation wide attack the Council of Princes would have to pass a vote. Given what it hints at in the Gazetteers this "Ethengar hatred" thing is limited only to a very few votes - ie Jaggar and his cronies. Most Princes would be against war, or at best neutral - and a look at the Glantrian governmental system reveals that a majority of princes is required to pass a decree. I cannot see such a majority ever happening. And I think that generally Glantri is a very insular country. They may slag off other nations a bit (although I'm not really sure if they even do that) but the impression I get of Glantri is that it is made up of isolated wizards in their towers who hang big Do Not Disturb signs on their door. With all the backstabbing there is more than enough fun and games in Glantri City without having to go to war!>> A valid point. This lack of support has probably been furthered with the loss of some of of the "old guard" Princes during WotI. Not to mention the growing popularity of Prince Jherek. IMO as long as Ethengar stays out of Glantri Proper, the Glantri desire for war is minimalized to a minority. IMO Glantri is insular and its military is more tuned to defense. << Concerning the Immortals - looking at WotI it seems that Ixion is willing to let the study of the Radiance continue (presumably, otherwise the War of Wrath would still be going on). I think that the Immotals are probably allowing the Brotherhood of Radiance to continue their work - certainly there will be a degree of support from Immortals of Energy (particularly Rafiel). And what about the Fellowship of the Star? They still support Glantri (presumably) having been won over in debate by Rad.>> IIRC the NoS was alterred to draw on Entropy instead of Energy. I also think Ixion and his allies let the matter die in their attempts to save as much of sinking Alphatia as possible. Or more likely, the issue was placed on the backburner. Plus, an appearance by an Old One had a little something to do with truce. I would actually like to see the issue addressed. To give some closure to the matter. I would assume Benekander would be very influencial in this matter as he has a great understanding of the NoS. A working understanding that predates Rafiel's. I also feel that the Great War was not stopped. If anything, it was a mutual cease fire out of necessity. Only Thyatis (who had a treaty with Alphatia prior to the sinking) attempted to take advantage of the situaton. And those attempts were thwarted by little ole Thothia and a few displaced Alphatian troops. << I think the Immortals would like to see mortal study of the Radiance continue, so they can see some more Radiance Immortals around who can unlock the secrets of the Nucleus of the Spheres.>> I do feel that the Immortals would not mind a comprehensive study of the Radince as to know its properties and possibly finda way to negate the Day of Dread and the Radiance's drain on magic. That drain was the foundation of Ixion's adverse attitude to the Radiance. I am sure that with Benekander around, the Immortals will feel more certain of safety and such. As mentioned, he knows the NoS better than anyone. << Looking at the past, the Immortals are not like Gods - they don't place as much importance on their worshippers. (I believe from the Codex of the Immortals that it makes no odds if an Immortal has one worshipper on 1 million). Immortals have agendas that they want to see fulfilled - and it so happens that worshippers happen to be the "tool of choice". But if the Radiance is on the agenda of various Immortals, the Brotherhood of Radiance (ie Glantri) will receive their support - worshippers or not.>> But Glantri is also the source of the Brotherhood members, the folks that use the Radiance and further the drain of magic. IMO the Immortals would smite these folks or at least remove them as users. Thus the drain is lessened. As for the Glantrians and their choice to follow Rad. IIRC Rad is not known to them as the Radiance. Instead, Rad is the embodiment of magic user magic. So the Immortal Rad (if he exists depending upon individual campaigns) is not such a big deal. <> If I have recalled correctly in my recollection about the Radiance drawing on Entropy after WotI, then this is moot. And with the "spreading darkness and chaos" initiated by one Princess Dolores Glantri is well on its way to Entropy. And I cannot see the Ethie as supporters of or as pawns of Entropy. Sure they have that gate to Sphere of Entropy but the Ethie are not wont to cause the decay of the KW. If anything, they want to build an empire of their own. And the iron will of the Golden Khan is too solid to be considered Entropic. Now if a certain Golden Khan were to perish and be suceded by his son who is the probable target for a certain evil spirit that posesses the body of another certain tribal Khan...... well that is another matter. See I do have the Ethie Gaz. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 10:23:58 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Other adversaries... In a message dated 98-04-23 14:05:47 EDT, you write: << Thyatis vs Karameikos... Interesting - could be the last kicks of a dying empire, but I rather hope not (I like Thyatis!). I think that there has been such a general slating of Thyatis lately that I think people forget what a powerful nation it is. And good from the point of view of running campaigns about it.>> An interesting scenario. But would Thyatis be able to take on Karameikos and its Alphatian contingents? Not to mention the inclusion of the WDL. For Thyatis to assault Karameikos and reclaim it could be the final nail in the Empire's coffin. Too costly for an economically strapped nation. Still it could be the proverbial last whorah for the Thyatians. A gloreous final campaign. Who knows what may arise from the ashes of a dying Empire. << Also Thyatis is not in such a bad way as people make out. It is 5 years after the War of Wrath - and look at the NACE. Alphatia sunk! Thyatis was merely hammered. Thyatis should really be in a better state than the NACE - and the NACE is becoming very powerful.>> I have to agree. Thyatis is economically strained and the populace at ill ease. Losing a war with your lifelong rival, heavy taxation, corruption actually directly hitting them (bread riots), and losing a big Thincol gamble against the Thothians can do that. Thyatis is a powder keg. The question is who handles the matches and which way the blast is directed. The bright side is that the Thyatian structure is basically intact. If managed well a recovery can happen. Though I expect with Alphatia removed as an immediate threat, the unity bred in fear that bound the Thyatians will give cause for certain kingdoms to desire a breakaway. IIRC this is already ebbing within the Thyatian kingdoms on the Isle of Dawn. << I guess it depends on how Eusebius is running things. Thyatis has been quiet lately, so presumably he is consolidating the Empire, and help it get its act together. When he does, watch out! From Eusebius' description in the PWAs, he seems about as politically canny and ruthless as his old man.>> Yes, Eusebius is the great hope of Thytian recovery. <<(Thincol ruled. Why did he die?)>> Thincol was the subject of an Immortal Curse. A concubine/advisor was actually Vanya. Thincol scorned her advice and blamed her for the defeats. In Vanya fashion, she abandoned Thincol and left him Cursed to boot. Boom, he died. IIRC those magical elixers used to keep him young were negated/dispelled and the curse insured no new magic could be used to heal or revitalize him. He died as his real age caught up with him. << These Viking squabbles I don't really see as interesting (sorry!). Interesting moshes occur when you have a culture/technology clash. Thats why I enjoyed (am enjoying still!) the Ethengar/Glantri debate.>> The Viking wars could be a simple power struggle for dominence and inner stability. Or it could be the prelude to the Vikings organizing and making an impression on the KW. << I'm sure the Heldannic Knights could have an interesting war with just about any of their neighbours.>> And I am sure they will. Whether with vanya's grace, to regain Vanya's grace, or just for the hell of it, war and conquest is what binds and guides them. Other nations- Minrothad vs. Thyatis Ala Operation Hydra. Thyatis wishes to bring the Guildes into the fold. Trade, geographical location, and size makes this not only a viable option but also needed, especially if Thyatis wishes to control the Sea of Dread. Hule vs. Everyone No brainer. Master and his hordes are close to Darokin, Atruagin Tribes, Five Shires, Glantri. Alot of tempting lands. Milenian City/States vs. Davania I'd love to see a classical greek style campaign to reunify the city/states and forge a renewed imperial presence on Davania. Thyatis vs. The Emerond Renewed Thyatian offensives in the Hinterlands give the Emerond cause to ally with the Hinterland Clans and stand up to the Thyatians. Jungle warfare at its finest. Perhaps even an alliance to NACE to gain support against the Thyatians. Darokin vs. the BrokenLands Tired of the humanoid raids, the merchants send their armies into action to remove the noid menace. Glantri could be drawn in on the noids side, especially if Darokin troops cross the border pursuing noid raiders. Or Kol could be a catalyst as his noids assist the BL noids. Alot of interesting scenarios could be developed. The possibilities with Thyatis alone are good. Civil war, war for independance, and an attempted ousting come to mind. Alex *************************************************************************** Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 22:48:21 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #246 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 10:34:27 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Take a Chill Pill In a message dated 98-04-25 01:22:48 EDT, you write: << Oh Great Khan, Do we have any historical data on the actual size (estimated/apocryphal) of the size of Attilas Horde. How about the other waves of Goths, Scythians, etc etc. >> These facts and stats on Attilla the Hun can be easily found if one just looks. But it should be remembered that Attilla as well as Ghengis Khan did use quite a number of vassal tribesmen as foot infantry as well as cavalry. So the numbers are pretty large. In most cases (broad brush stroke) the defending Romans were outnumbered. And the Roman tactics were styled to engage the enemy in a head on clash (box formations). Not some rabble of horsemen that won't stand still and die like good barbarians. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 10:40:53 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alchemists Guilds In a message dated 98-04-25 07:11:30 EDT, you write: << I think Alchemists would be bound by very tight rules by the Alchemists Guild. They are capable of making gold!!! This sort of thing has to be monitored by the Powers that Be. A group of wizards able to make (and sell) expensive potions and turn rocks to diamonds is going to upset a lot of merchants. I'm sure Darokin would not be happy if they knew that a bunch of Glantrian wizards were undermining their economy by producing several tons of platinum a month. (Alchemy is probably the most powerful circle in my opinion). I reckon that Alchemists would have severe restrictions on what they can market. Something like - youcan use your abilities for personal use only. Alchemists undercutting merchants by making precious metals for next to nothing are soon going to be the subject of scrutiny. Which means that it isn't a secret circle anymore! Well IIRC the Secret Circle of Alchemy consider regular non member alchemists to not be the real deal. IMO there would be little interaction between the "real deals" and the "charlatans". This of course comes from G:KoM so there may be some difference with the Glantri GAZ. At best, their relationship would be distant as the Circle sees them as not being important. At worst, the Circle keeps an eye on them either as a safeguard or to be on the outlook for potential brothers in the rough. If the regular alchemist know about the Circle then some infiltration for knowledge may be in store. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 10:50:48 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Just one more word...(couldnt resist) In a message dated 98-04-25 11:52:32 EDT, you write: << >These are the same Zulus that erradicated the regular British Army the pprevious day to Rourkes Drift. Yeah, that was the time when the Brits couldn't get the lids off the ammo boxes...>> There is obviously more to it than British inability to read opening labels...but that would be getting way off subject and I will not do that today. << I don't know if people saw the point of me comparing Alphatia to 20th century technology. The intention was to say that the Glantrian army is probably roughly equivalent to a 19th century army, except that the Glantrians use magic instead of technology. I thought it would better illustrate the situation because of the use of all these RW equivalents - ie Mongols vs Rome. I was pointing out that a better analogy would be Zulus vs Brits... >> I agree with the Glantrians being simular to 19th century. But not technologically wise. More like socially. The technology being replaced by magic. Imagine a 19th century Europe with magic replacing technology. Whallah...you have Glantri. But for the sake of arguement I'd go back to 18th century to preserve the historical aspect. But IMC Glantri is Glantri. I try to stay away from denoting RW time periods. Aside from broad ranging periods like Classical, Middle Ages, etc. to establish a feel. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 10:35:00 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Net Almanac << 1015 edition won't be released before March. Work for 1016 is not under way yet, for several reason: 1) we already have to put together all 1015 stuff 2) before starting with 1016 we want to see how the MML reacts to 1015 events Anyway we already have some general ideas for 1016 AC. >> March in which year? What's the actual (planned) release date? Jamuga Khan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 11:05:41 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dark elves, Tylion, and Tylari In a message dated 98-04-25 17:49:06 EDT, you write: << The Tower of Doom arcade game and the Tower of Doom boxed set are two different things entirely. The Tower of Doom boxed set takes place in Thunder Rift, and deals with many, many, undead. >> Oh they are different....good. Saves me the time in searching for them. Haven't looked at them in several years. Thanks. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 11:01:47 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The TSR boards! We are ruling the TSR message boards!!!!!!! With 466 messages at last count we are well beyond all other boards at the site (except the general "DM's" board). Also, a quick look at some of the threads on other boards revealed to me that we have a very mature "progression minded" bunch of people. Are messages are polite to each other, they do not use foul language, they are geared toward development of the setting. Even if we are merely a vocal minority, WotC cannot help but see the potential in reviving our beloved world. Go here to sign on to the boards: http://tsronline.wizards.com:80/mb/system/addnewuser.shtml Now more than ever you should express your views on how Mystara should be brought back: http://cmnwrld.com/forumbin/SaveMystara/ There are only 10 messages at the above address. Surely more than just 10 of us have opinions on Mystara's resurrection!? And, once again, if you are interested in joining the SaveMystara Writer's Group, email me personally with "Mystaran Writers" as your subject. So far we have a nice number of people. The goal of the group is to get as many adventures and articles to the periodicals as we can in a quick amount of time.>> Yep, I had heard that the TSR Mystara boards were the hot item. I even logged on a few times and read some messages. But the thing is that the system will not let me back on. Even resubmitting to the NEW USER rarely works. A sizable presence on these boards is a must to get TSR's attentions. Where better than their own backyard? I will try again to get back into these boards. For the record, I did not download the ichat software for the chatrooms. I rarely use chatrooms. This lack of software may be the problem as pointed out by another MMLer. Save Mystara projects have been slow at this end. I do have a nifty idea about an adventure. Been working the details over in my head while at work. Hopefully will get some down on paper soon. The project is based on planar travel and involves a plot influenced by a movie I saw called CrossWorld. There is more to it than the movie. Invisible extraplanar beings. A fiend or two popping in. And unimaginable power. I have been trying to link it to a bigger plot that involves the imprisonment of an Immortal. A third party has imprisoned a lesser Immortal in an attempt to get PCs to retreive an item to free him/her. This item is needed to free their own Immortal (Arik maybe). Like I said, it needs work. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 11:21:51 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) In a message dated 98-04-25 23:21:21 EDT, you write: << << Seriuosly, clerics are obviously not known in Glantri. It can also be expected that knowledge of their power, strengths, and weaknesses are a mystery to the Glantrians. Glantri mages might be most surprised at justwhat a cleric can do. And if they have littlew clue as to a clerics potential then a shaman is totally foriegn. I would think they are all too well known to any MU in Glantri and therefor seen as a threat to the Magocracy. Someone recently raised the point on the List (sorry, i'd give you credit if i'd saved the mail) of the Education, time, money, social-standing needed to become a wizard v. the faith required that might inspire any someone from any social class (even, say, a poor shepherd girl) and permit them access to miraculous magics. Its this restriction that keeps the power in the hands of the noble class and the basis, asi see it, of the restriction. The ideology might have followed the practicallity and greed of the wizards in the writing of the Light of Rad declarations. >> Well, public perception and the knowledgable mages may vary. But when were the clerics cast out? AC858. A great deal of misconceptions can occur in 150+ years. IMO not only was clerical magic a rival and threat to mages. It was also an unknown entity. Mages could explain their spells via research and components. But clerical spells are granted by Immortals and very much different, possibly completely unexplanable to a mage. Imagine a RW scientist or engineer being presented a Mystara gnome built fantasy engineered construct. Glantri fears clerics. Whether this fear was based originally on mystery or rivalry, I am sure the time has bred a multitude of rumors and misconceptions to explain why clerics are out. These breed added fear, fear of the unknown. And since the two spell systems are different in source (research vs. granting) the mages may not understand the properties of clerical magic. That the mages have exhiled clerics displays their fear and/or uneasiness. Out of sight, out of mind works well but it also robs the mages of a chance to analyze clerical magic. Hence a lack of understanding. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 14:33:22 EDT From: BoBo II Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Take a Chill Pill Thansk I think. I was actually looking for "numbers." Anyhting more specific? Thanks. P.S.: I did look, and that info wasn't anywhere . . .in my apartment. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 14:00:37 PDT From: "Joshuan Gallidox Publishing" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Net Almanac Jamuga Khan wrote >March in which year? What's the actual (planned) release date? Next week... crossing fingers... _________________________________ Joshuan Gallidox Publishing publisher of the Mystaran Almanac ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 18:07:55 EDT From: Duncan TKD Subject: [MYSTARA] - Those Elemental Planes This exsert was taken from a lecture by Nigel Ellarkus at the School of Mage Craft in Karameikos. "The plnaes of existance.......There are many planes of existance, but only a few are known, such as the four elemental planes. A plane we will define as a space that has three infinite spacial dimensions. Some have said that these four planes border each other and our own. Now in order for planes to border each other they would have to touch at a fourth spacial dimension. This explanes why one cannot just walk over the border of the plane and into another plane. Also note that this fourth spacial dimension cannot be detected by ordinary means. In order for one to cross from one plane to another one needs a gate of some sort, whether this gate is planar vortex, a wormhole, or one created by a magical item or spell does not matter. The Four elemental planes each consist of only one Elemental power that is in control, where as our own plane all the elemental powers are in balance and are equal. Now immagine a plane in which Two elemental powers where in suppremacy. For example, Fire and Earth this would lead to a plane that wold have the combined aspect of these powers, and thus this gives birth to the paraelemental planes....... He goes on to descrebe the four know paraelemetal planes and suggest that there might be more than four. These others have just not yet been discovered. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 12:47:15 +1000 From: shawn@leme.anu.edu.au (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Selhomarr Gazetter On behalf of Geoff Gander I'm posting these files onto the mailing list as people might not know of the existance of them on Geoff's homepage or mirrored on my own or Marco Dalmotes pages. Though of course you'd still have to go to these places to see the map rendered by Geoff Gander for Selhomarr. I hope these files spark your interest and open your ideas to those parts of Mystara outside Karameikos-Glantri. Just reiterating these files are not written by me but by Geoff Gander. I'm just posting them to the mailing list as Geoff has had problems in doing so. The Empire of Selhomarr An unofficial Gazetteer for the HOLLOW WORLDTM and MYSTARATM campaign settings of the DUNGEONS AND DRAGONSTM game by Geoff Gander Below is a list of the subsequent posts in the order in which they should appear, just doing this just in case the posts come through in the wrong order. Following this are some other files by Geoff which are not part of the Selhomarr Gazetter but which are related to it. Selhomarr Gazetter: Introduction The Lhomarrian People Lhomarr: The Lands, Its People and Their History Lhomarr in the Hollow World Life as the Lhomarrians See It The Lhomarrian Year and Events within it What everyone knows about the Lhomarrians Geographic and Biological Overview Lhomarrian Settlements Notes on Various Lhomarrian Cities Currency and Trade Lhomarrian Politics and Laws Important NPCs Lhomarrian Magic Lhomarrian Relics Other Files: The Lore and Legends of Y'hog Creating Lhomarrian Player Characters stan http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 12:48:08 +1000 From: shawn@leme.anu.edu.au (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Empire of Selhomarr: Introduction The Empire of Selhomarr: A Gazetteer by Geoff Gander, 1997 Introduction: Very little in known about the Lhomarrians by current Mystaran sages - if fact, if asked, many would doubt their existence. Only the DM has the full story of who they were, but players can discover this if they venture to the Hollow World... Unlike many other cultures detailed by TSR and by enterprising DMs and players alike, the Lhomarrians do not have a direct correspondence with any real world cultures. This is because they are based upon mythological accounts of the people of Atlantis, as written by Plato and others. In their general cultural outlook, people will be able to find similarities with Greek, and other cultures, but overlaid by that of mythic Atlantis. The Lhomarrians are a combination of these and more. With this in mind, I will describe them as a people, their values, their way of life, and their society. stan http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #246 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 22:55:01 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #247 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Sunday, April 26 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 247 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - The Empire of Selhomarr: The Lhomarrian People [MYSTARA] - The Empire of Selhomarr: The Land, Its People, and Their History (1/2) [MYSTARA] - The Empire of Selhomarr: The Land, Its People, and Their History (2/2) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 12:49:22 +1000 From: shawn@leme.anu.edu.au (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Empire of Selhomarr: The Lhomarrian People The Lhomarrian People: As discussed briefly in my article on the lore and legends of Y'hog, the Lhomarrians are not a race unto themselves; but a fourth branch of humanity, largely vanished from the surface world except for small enclaves in the Lost Valley region. The article on the history of Lhomarr on the surface world provides more detail on this topic. As a people, the Lhomarrians are of average height, but are stockier than the average human, and also tend to have more hair on their bodies. In terms of skin tone, they range from a medium olive to a light pink complexion. Despite their appearance, however, the Lhomarrians are not a people who live in hot climates. When the Lhomarrians first arose on the surface, they developed in southern Skothar, which was then near the equator, and very tropical. They eventually migrated to old Lhomarr, which, although far to the south, was blessed with milder temperatures thanks to both warmer ocean currents, and a microclimate, much like that enjoyed by Blackmoor during its heyday. Otherwise, old Lhomarr would have had a climate much like that of northern Norwold and the modern Thonian Marches. Thus, they arose in a tropical land, but migrated to more temperate climes. Their constant exposure to the sun, and its reflection over the sea, allowed them to retain their pigmentation. Most Lhomarrians have brown hair and eyes, although hazel or green eyes, and reddish-brown hair, are not uncommon. Lhomarrians with blond hair or blue eyes are quite rare, and people having such a hair and eye colour combination will not escape notice. Lhomarrian Dress: Generally, Lhomarrian women wear their hair long, with the wealthier ones often tying it up with delicate, wire-like jewellery made from precious metals and stones. The most common form of dress for women is an ankle-length dress with sleeves reaching down to the elbows, belted at the waist. They are often white or brown in colour for the average woman, but richer ones will have dresses with vibrant colours. Over top of this dress many wear a long vest, extending below the waist, which often has colourful patterns dyed into it. Again, richer women will wear vests made from better fabrics, and having more colours. Counter to what many would expect, there is nothing forbidding women in lower economic classes from wearing upper-class garments - as long as they can afford the clothes, they can wear them. In terms of footwear, most women wear stockings (of finer fabrics for the wealthy) underneath sturdy leather shoes. Lhomarrian men generally keep their hair short, although many have short, well-trimmed beards. Most commoners wear simple cloth sleeved tunics, belted at the waist, and pants. They will also wear boots or shoes. As with women, the richer the man, the more vibrant and well-made his clothing will be. Commoners generally wear clothing that is white, grey, or brown in colour, although colour choices are not limited to these. Military Dress and Equipment: In times of war, Lhomarrian soldiers will wear bronze helmets and arm and leg greaves, combined with a bronze scale mail hauberk. Often, tabards depicting national symbols, or division emblems, are worn over the armour. Most warriors arm themselves with bronze spears and shields, as well as short swords or hand-axes. If distance weapons are needed, the Lhomarrians can equip themselves with short bows or slings. Two-handed weapons, as well as long swords and crossbows, are unknown to them. Less offensive weapons include staves and daggers. Lhomarrian sailors wear leather armour, as this is light enough that they can still swim if knocked overboard. Many use the short sword as the weapon of choice, but some will use tridents as well. stan http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 12:54:20 +1000 From: shawn@leme.anu.edu.au (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Empire of Selhomarr: The Land, Its People, and Their History (1/2) Lhomarr: The Land, Its People, and Their History: Overheard at a public lecture by Gallos the Aged, at Myiad: "...and as I said earlier, the history of the Lhomarrian people has been shaped by many things, not the least of which was our survival of the destruction of the old world. As some of our surviving records state, our old world was a wondrous place, filled with nature's bounty. But our war with Y'hog nearly destroyed us. All of us here learned the Tale of the Homecoming by rote, how our fair land was destroyed by their powers, how only a handful of villages, filled with the most virtuous among us, were picked up by Xeron Himself to be brought to this new world, and to our fair continent of Selhomarr, which He created for us. "We have not squandered His bounty, but have expanded in our new realm only when overcrowding demands it, for we were far too acquisitive in the Old Times. Thus we ensure there is plenty of nature's bounty for all to enjoy, for there can be no wilderness, no animals, and no free lands to enjoy, if we cover all we see with our roads, our houses, and our public buildings. Truly Selhomarr is paradise on our world. "Xeron has also taught us the value of co-operation. Never in the Old Times would the good of the people come before the good of the individual, but now we know it cannot be otherwise. Only if we band together, help others as we would help ourselves, can we hope to survive the challenges Xeron has set before us. "Now, before I accept questions, let us briefly discuss the importance of the Codex of Ilyonior, and its ramifications on our current legal system..." The History of the Lhomarrians Old Lhomarr, The Migrations In the ancient times before recorded history, there was a mighty human civilization, one which predated even the elves, and expanded to unprecedented proportions. This was Lhomarr. None but the most learned sages know of it now, and even these doubt much of their information, diluted as it is through the passage of over 8,000 years. The people who were to become the Lhomarrians first appeared on the southern coast of the landmass that we know as Skothar, some 12,000 years ago. In those times, a large series of islands, some of them very large, ran from that coast almost to Vulcanian Peninsula of Davania. The early Lhomarrians were simple hunter- gatherers, living off of the bounty of the rich southern savannahs and forests, and occasionally exploring the coasts of these lands in their tiny dugout canoes. Some migrated south, colonizing the uninhabited islands to the south, slowly leapfrogging their way towards Davania. There they would have ultimately settled, were it not for the discovery of a very large island - almost a small continent - not 200 miles north of the tip of what we now call the Vulcanian Peninsula. This was approximately 11,500 years ago. While the early Lhomarrians of the south were exploring their world, those of the north - those who remained in southern Skothar - suddenly found themselves in competition with a people known as the Tanagoro, who also lived off of the savannahs and forests. While the Lhomarrians were brave, the Tanagoro were far more numerous, and much more proficient at combat. A series of wars erupted between the two peoples over the next 200 years, in which each side inflicted great suffering on the other. Ultimately, the northern Lhomarrians were beaten, some fleeing to the southern islands, and others migrating to the northwest. Those who went south joined their fellows on the islands, and those who went northwest travelled for many years, until they came upon a rich land, with great forests and plains. Here they settled, and, before long, met the natives of this new land, who were fair-skinned and pastoral. The two peoples, having no desire to fight each other, learned to co- operate. Soon, their cultures mingled, and they became one people. This new people, who called themselves the Yanifey, would enjoy a peaceful existence on proto-Alphatia until BC 1000, when they were pushed aside by a new set of newcomers - the Alphatians. The southern Lhomarrians, free from the conflicts of their northern brethren, were able to concentrate on improving their own existence. They eventually settled down, and converted from a semi-nomadic lifestyle to that of pastoralism. They domesticated many kinds of crops, as well as animals, and began a rapid rise to civilization that was to see them build stone houses, wooden sailing ships, and forge bronze weapons. These achievements were completed some 9,800 years ago, around BC 8800. By this time they had also taken to the sea, collecting great catches of fish, and exploring farther and farther away from their homes. Within 200 years, the Lhomarrians had explored the entire Davanian coast from the Vulcanian to the Cestian Peninsulas. It was also around this time that the melting of the large polar icecaps was well under way. As a consequence, many of the smaller islands south of Skothar sank into the sea because of the rising sea levels. Eventually, only the small continent of Lhomarr still existed, and even then many low-lying coastal plains were inundated. By this time (around BC 8600-BC 8400), the Lhomarrians had become well-established upon this land, which they named Lhomarr, meaning "Land of the Sea". The Old Kingdom, The Tyranny of Galhossian, and the Rebellion The early stages of Lhomarrian civilization were marked by periods of imperial expansion, global exploration, and sometimes peaceful relations with other peoples. Lhomarrian colonists had already sparsely settled the Cestian Peninsula by BC 8400, as well as the peninsula we know as the Vulture Peninsula, then a land of verdant forests and pastures. The Vulcanian Peninsula, although much closer geographically, had poorer soils, a more severe climate, and more hostile animals than the more distant Lhomarrian colonies. No large numbers of Lhomarrians settled Davania at this time. Only after the edict of Galhossian, Emperor of Lhomarr, was announced in the capital city of Regemnon in BC 8397 were large numbers of colonists sent to Xerothyni (the Lhomarrian name for the Cestian colony), and Prys (the old name for the Vulture Peninsula) on Davania. That such an edict came to be only because of the machinations of Galhossian, who ascended the throne due to an accident at sea that claimed the life of his older brother, Yoros. Never a very stable man, Galhossian constantly sought to root out traitors in his midst, and often passed judgements indiscriminately, for he saw enemies everywhere. The most common means of getting rid of opponents (both real and imagined), was to deport them to the Lhomarrian colonies on Davania. At first, only a trickle of people went to the continent, but after the edict was announced, hundreds were shipped away every week. Many of these people were simply dumped on the shores of their new homes, and told to make do with what they had. Few survived this treatment. At home, high taxes were levied against the people, and the powers of the regional princes were curtailed severely. By BC 8392, Galhossian ruled with an iron fist. As he ever more zealously defended himself from imagined enemies within the capital, real opponents arose in the countryside, demanding fair taxation and more autonomy. The event that touched off the rebellion happened in early spring, BC 8389, when the emperor, while touring the southern countryside, received a less than hearty welcome at one of the villages. The local garrison had just requisitioned the commoners' tools and food stores for their own purposes, and many were starving. Outraged at this reception, Galhossian had the entire village burned, and its people put to the sword. Such actions would never have been conceived when Lhomarrian society was developing. Understanding the need for co-operation, and the fact that no one person could administer every region of the continent, and its colonies, a federal system was set up, where a council of twelve regional princes looked after local affairs, and reported directly to the emperor, who handled affairs of state. Such as system had been in place since BC 8600, when the first emperor appointed ten of his best warriors to rule in his stead across the continent. Two princes were later appointed in BC 8395 to look after the two colonies. Galhossian's actions circumvented the rights of his princes, and violated the balance of power that had existed for centuries. Word of this event spread like wildfire throughout the countryside, and ten regional princes, along with their supporters, declared an open rebellion. The two princes in the colonies declared themselves for Galhossian, and sent their forces to his aid. Over the next 12 years, a vicious civil war spread all over the continent, and in the colonies to a lesser extent. The hostilities ended in BC 8377, when Galhossian and the two loyal princes were killed in the palace by a rebel disguised as one of his personal guards. In the aftermath, the ten victorious princes redivided the Lhomarrian empire into ten regions, wherein each would look after local affairs. Galhossian's successor and son, Tylios, was only 14 years old at the time, and could only accept what was being decided. The princes only wrote a series of binding laws, which explicitly divided the national powers between the two ruling groups. Now it would be illegal for a usurpation on the scale of Galhossian to happen again. The New Kingdom, The Golden Age of Lhomarr In the centuries that followed, Lhomarr settled into a new peace. The regional princes looked after the people, and the successive emperors remained within their allotted sphere, dealing with foreign rulers, concluding new treaties, and enacting legislation. Colonization of Davania proceeded in a leisurely manner, with colonies existing on the Vulcanian Peninsula, what would eventually become the Lost Valley, and on the aforementioned established settlements of Xerothnyi and Prys. Relations were also concluded with the Tanagoro of Skothar to the north, the Oltecs to the northeast on Brun and northern Davania, and with the kingdoms of the lizard men around the Aryptian Basin region. Trade increased, the people prospered, and explorers went further afield. It was near the end of this period, around BC 8260, that word of a strange land far to the northwest became known. Tales were told of a large island near the great Western Sea, upon which were built cities of blackest basalt, obsidian, and marble. The inhabitants were said to be like those of the lizard man realms, but unlike them in many ways. They were said to be very reclusive, refusing to respond to requests to dock at one of their harbours, while it was obvious there was much wealth there, as strange-looking ships laden with riches continually arrived, crewed by those queer people. Tales were also told of columns of refugees fleeing their communities in the area, of great wars and destruction. Many of these were not believed by the average Lhomarrian, content as he was in his security. The emperor at the time, Mordalios, decided that this land required study, and ordered the furnishing of an expedition to this land. This expedition had several diplomats and other officials come along as well, in the hopes of concluding formal relations with these people, if they existed. After many years of searching, the island of Y'hegg-T'uhath (as it was called by the locals) was discovered in BC 8250. Upon being guided to the capital, the mysterious city of Y'hog, the representatives of Lhomarr were treated to a sumptuous banquet by the island's masters, a degenerate breed of Carnifex. Unknown to them, the food they were served was laced with sleeping poisons, which took effect quickly. Once asleep, the Lhomarrians were sacrificed by the Carnifex to their dark gods. One of the envoys, who was feeling ill, had declined to eat and had gone outside, only to witness the foul deed. He fled to the ship, and ordered the crew to head back to Lhomarr. The Time of Isolation, The First War The Lhomarrian ship returned home by BC 8249, and the tale of the diplomatic mission was shared with Mordalios. Not a particularly brave man, he decided that Lhomarrian lives were too precious to waste in an obscure corner of the world, and so did nothing in terms of reprisals. He maintained close ties with the various nations on Davania, such as Nevumm and Orimul, in order to ensure that his colonies' western flanks would be well-protected from any menace originating there. So this situation persisted, with successive emperors relying more and more upon the willingness of the Davanian nations to keep the peace on the continent, while the Lhomarrians retreated within their own nation and its colonies, venturing into the world only to trade occasionally, unwilling to risk confrontation. This arrangement suited many commoners just fine, as they had no desire to lose their sons in far-off wars, or to forsake the comforts of their homes. By BC 8100, the tales of destruction grew more frequent. At this time, Carnifex colonies on Davania were growing mighty, and expanding their holdings at the expense of their neighbours, who all too often found themselves sacrificed to the blasphemous gods of Y'hog. As the years passed, contact with the nations to the west became sporadic, then ceased entirely as city after city fell to the hordes of Y'hog and its colonies. The last city of Nevumm was sacked and burned in BC 8006, and with its destruction the ruin of an entire nation. Orimul shared its fate not long afterwards, in BC 7962, though some of its Oltec inhabitants fled, escaping northeast across the Serpent Peninsula to the future lands of the Atruaghin Clans. By BC 7903, the kingdom of Ilarnn found itself under the Carnifex heel, and its people enslaved. With its conquest the way was clear to the rich lands of Xerothnyi, prize colony of Lhomarr. Kirthos, the emperor at the time, did not share his predecessors' isolationist tendencies, but found it incredibly difficult to get the regional princes to co-operate with him in his plan to aid Davania. With the conquest of Ilarnn, opposition to his plans dissolved, as rumours spread of an imminent invasion of Xerothnyi, and of Lhomarr soon afterwards. In BC 7900, a massive fleet of Lhomarrian ships landed at Xerothnyi, and disgorged a large force of soldiers to push back the Carnifex horde. Within five years, they managed to push their enemies out of the kingdom of Ilarrn, thus liberating it. There were enough people left for Ilarrn to constitute a nation, and these numbers were bolstered by Lhomarrian settlers, who aided in the reconstruction of the country. For King Dirdani of Ilarrn, ruling what was effectively a protectorate of Lhomarr was infinitely better than dying at the hands of the Carnifex. Over the next 400 years the battle lines moved east and west across the northern portion of the continent, with many large cities switching hands several times, decimating the numbers of those who survived the initial onslaught of the Carnifex. Over these years, many large portions of northern Davania were effectively depopulated, entire cultures wiped out. By BC 7500, Lhomarr found itself almost broken by the wars. Too many young men had left their homes, never to return. It soon found it necessary to form an alliance with other surviving human nations in the region, insisting upon a crusade to push the Carnifex out of Davania. Nations such as Ilarrn and Suur eagerly contributed what forces they had, realizing that Lhomarr could not do this alone. The push to the west resumed with renewed vigour, as the allied legions liberated more cities and regained more land. Lizard man mercenaries also gave their aid, for their nations were also endangered by the Carnifex. A great victory was scored in BC 7465, when Azhat-Ith, the largest Carnifex city on Davania, and a main transit point for their armies, was taken after a two-year siege. No compassion was spared the inhabitants, and the city was razed and then resettled by Lhomarrians in BC 7460, naming their new city Eldamir. With such a great setback, the Carnifex could not co-ordinate their armies as well, and soon found they had no secure landing point for their troops. By BC 7380, the Carnifex had been pushed out of Davania, save for scattered bands in the Adakkian Mountains, as well as underground. A time of peace and rebuilding began, but this was cut short less than 200 years later, as a second great horde swept down from Y'hegg-T'uhath, sowing the seeds of destruction once again. The Dark Years In BC 7200, a new horde of Carnifex and their servitors landed on the northwestern coasts of Davania, and destroyed all they found. Such was their fury that they swept across the continent with great speed, besieging and destroying Eldamir in BC 7178. The advance was halted here, and the newly-rebuilt Azhat-Ith was taken in BC 7153, but this time no other cities were built upon this site, such were the memories of the destruction of Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 22:55:01 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #247 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com Eldamir. By BC 7140 Davania was once more freed from the hold of the second horde of Y'hog. This time, it was decided that the menace of the Carnifex must be destroyed once and for all. In the early spring of BC 7037, a great naval force of Lhomarrians and their allies gathered at the ruins of the Lhomarrian port of Valannir in northwestern Davania, and crossed the Straits of Mist to the island of Y'hegg-T'uhath. Once there, they systematically destroyed every settlement they found, until they made their way to the capital, Y'hog itself. By BC 7033, Y'hog was surrounded, the siege succeeding two years later, in which much of the city was laid to waste. Only a couple of years later, a third and final horde of Carnifex and their minions swept out from the catacombs beneath Y'hog, and laid Davania to waste once more. In BC 7027, a valley near the ruins of the city-state of Pelenzor was the scene of one of the worst battles Davania had yet seen, in which Brell, the great general of the Lhomarrian armies who masterminded the siege of Y'hog, was slain. The Lhomarrians and their allies were routed, and they retreated the south and east, with their enemies in close pursuit. Just two short years later, those same armies were fighting to maintain their hold on the eastern coasts of Davania. Xerothnyi and Prys were evacuated, and the line held for a short while - long enough to rout many of the invaders at the Battle of Okhtor Pass. Ultimately, Xerothnyi was lost, and the survivors fled to Lhomarr, to begin preparations for an anticipated invasion. This was not before a scouting party discovered what appeared to be a magical device in the possession of some Carnifex wizards, whom they slew, after which they destroyed the device. This destruction was the undoing of Lhomarr on the surface world, for the device was an artifact belonging to the Outer Beings worshipped by the Carnifex. The Destruction and Rebirth In retaliation for the destruction of their artifact, the Outer Beings decided to destroy Lhomarr personally, and, in BC 7022, marshalled their powers to create a breach in their prisons, one which lasted long enough to allow them to send their power unhindered against Lhomarr. In midsummer of that year, the skies grew dark, and torrential downpours flooded many coastal towns. Earthquakes shattered cities, caused landslides, and destroyed the landscape; while volcanoes spewed lava upon the populace. Finally, a tremendous earthquake shook the continent to its foundations on the sea floor, causing it to collapse over several hours into the sea. This was not before Ka the Preserver, seeing what was happening, gathered several villages' worth of people, including the entire town of Pergamnos, and sent them to the continent of Suridal in the Hollow World. Among these people was a cross-section of the Lhomarrian people, from princes to commoners, such that the new nation that would arise would represent all aspects of Lhomarrian society. He also reinforced those attributes which he believed marked the golden age of Lhomarr - a sense of wanderlust that led them to explore most of the world, tempered by a non-imperialist and generally peaceful nature. Those few Lhomarrians who still survived on the surface were doomed to an even quicker end now that Lhomarr proper was not there to support them. No one lived in Xerothnyi or Prys anymore, and those scattered settlements on the Vulcanian Peninsula and in the Lost Valley regions soon lost contact with each other. Many of them succumbed to invasions from neighbouring peoples, while others destroyed each other in civil wars. Some decided to leave north for greener pastures, settling briefly in the Adakkian Sound region, but these were eventually wiped out by barbarian raiders, who had taken over northern Davania in the absence of any organized authority. Some isolated villages in the Lost Valley managed to survive, banding together when they had to, but shunning contact with the outside. What their condition would be today, if they survived to the present day, is up to the DM, though a suggestion is given below. Other Remnants Apart from isolated communities in far southern Davania, most traces of Lhomarrian culture have been wiped clean either by war, or by the passage of time. Adventurous people, should they dig deeply in the Aryptian or the Izondian deserts, the Vulture Peninsula, or on the Isle of Cestia, might find foundations of buildings, as well as remnants of paved roads. But this would tell them nothing. Some travellers have related tales, while trekking across the Izondian desert, of hearing the sounds of a great battle, and the screams of the dying. Still others claim to have seen a spectral battle somewhere in that desert, between lizard-like creatures and strangely-clad humans, with one majestically-armoured figure overseeing the humans, who is killed by an arrow. Sailors venturing in the region where Lhomarr once lay can make fabulous discoveries. The seas in that region have long been known to be shallower than others, though no one knows why. Some enterprising divers have been able to dig up bizarre pieces of pottery, and well-preserved pieces of metal (although these are still unidentifiable) some 200 feet below the surface. Furthermore, at every low tide, a tiny marshy islet surfaces, no more than 500 feet across. Sailors have described this islet as solid, and not just floating vegetation. Some have even claimed to have dug up foundations of a building of some sort, but such claims are often dismissed as fantasy. This islet is, in fact, the tiny plateau-like summit of Mount Masalior, the tallest peak of Lhomarr. On its peak was the oldest temple to Xeron, otherwise known as Ixion, whose foundations still exist to this day. It is by the will of Ixion that this place survived the cataclysm relatively intact. stan http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 12:55:03 +1000 From: shawn@leme.anu.edu.au (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Empire of Selhomarr: The Land, Its People, and Their History (2/2) Summary Timeline of Lhomarrian History on the Surface BC 11000: The early Lhomarrians arise on the southern plains and forests of Skothar, where they lead a simple hunter-gatherer existence. The sea levels are much lower at this time, due to an ice age. BC 10700: Some Lhomarrians migrate south along an island chain connecting Skothar with the Vulcanian Peninsula of Davania. They lightly settle every island they come across. BC 10600: Southward-migrating Tanagoro begin to encroach upon the hunting grounds of the Lhomarrians who remain in Skothar. Wars erupt. BC 10500: The southward-migrating Lhomarrians discover a large landmass, almost a small continent, just 200 miles north of the tip of the Vulcanian Peninsula. The forests and plains here are very rich, and they settle here. BC 10400: The Lhomarrians of Skothar are defeated by the Tanagoro. Some migrate south to join their fellows on the islands, and the remainder head to the northwest. BC 10200: The southern Lhomarrians take up pastoralism, and begin to build permanent settlements. Domestication of plants begins. BC 10150: The northern Lhomarrians find a new home in proto-Alphatia, where they encounter the local population, and mix with them. The Yanifey develop as a result. BC 8900: The first king of the Lhomarrians is declared, taking the title due to his prowess in combat. His armies force other villages to recognize his authority -a dynasty begins. BC 8800: By this time the Lhomarrians in what will become Lhomarr have developed an early Bronze Age culture. Agriculture is widespread, as well as the domestication of animals. Small towns are present, and more complicated forms of government arise. Sailors explore their surroundings. BC 8750: After centuries of expansion and progress, the Lhomarrian king, Uripos, names himself emperor. BC 8600: Lhomarrian explorers have made simple maps of the Vulcanian coast, as well as the rest of the Davanian coast up to the Cestian Peninsula. A refined alphabet is developed, as well as improved bronze weapons and armour. The Middle Bronze age has arrived for Lhomarr. The polar ice caps, already melting due to rising temperatures, start to make their effects known. Some Lhomarrians settle on the Cestian Peninsula, naming it "Xerothnyi" (New Coast). Emperor Santhalis divides Lhomarr into ten provinces, and names ten of his bravest warriors to become regional princes, to rule in his stead in the provinces, and to take care of local affairs. BC 8563: The first Lhomarrian settlers reach the Vulture Peninsula, then a verdant land, which they name "Prys" (Garden). BC 8500: The climate warms up at an even faster rate. Many of the small islands between Lhomarr and Skothar have sunk by this time. Some low-lying coastal plains in Lhomarr begin to flood. BC 8405: Emperor Theros falls ill and becomes bedridden. He abdicates in favour of his eldest son, Yoros. BC 8401: Emperor Yoros drowns at sea due to a mishap. His younger brother Galhossian takes the throne. BC 8400: The increase in temperatures slackens, but Lhomarr finds itself alone in the sea, having lost about one-quarter of its landmass. The Lhomarrians are accomplished sailors by this time, so the developments over the past centuries are not catastrophic. The Lhomarrians also have developed a national consciousness, and name their land "Lhomarr" (Land of the Sea). BC 8397: The Edict of Galhossian is pronounced in the capital city, Regemnon. Anyone suspected of political subversion is deported to the colonies, or executed. Many people "rat" on their neighbours in order to settle longstanding grudges. The flow of colonists increases from a couple hundred per month into the thousands. Many are thrown into Prys and Xerothnyi with little more than the clothes on their backs, and hundreds die during the winter, especially in Prys, where the climate is more severe. In Lhomarr proper, taxes are increased by an average of 40% to fund extravagant civic works projects, such as roads, bridges, and monumental statues of the emperor. BC 8395: Xerothnyi and Prys are elevated to full provinces of Lhomarr, receiving their own princes to represent them. This is also a ploy to curry favour with the colonists. BC 8392: The last public opposition to Galhossian is crushed, having been sent to Prys the previous winter. He now rules with an iron fist, randomly arresting the people in his court. Discontent increases in the countryside. BC 8391: Prince Albassis of Burienos publicly criticizes the emperor, making demands for lower taxation and more regional powers. Many commoners agree with him, having seen their own situation deteriorate since Galhossian ascended the throne. BC 8389: Galhossian, while touring the southern countryside, visits the village of Brissalithos, and is scorned by the struggling villagers and farmers. Enraged, he orders the entire village executed, and its buildings razed. Word spreads quickly of the deed, and the ten princes of the continent of Lhomarr rise up in open revolt, along with their supporters. The princes of Xerothnyi and Prys declare themselves for Galhossian, realizing they owe their positions directly to him. A civil war ensues. BC 8377: The Lhomarrian Civil War ends, with the rebels being victorious. Galhossian and his two loyal princes are killed by a rebel disguised as a guard. The realm is redivided, giving the victorious princes an equal portion of the total area of the empire (including the colonies - they are no longer separate provinces). Galhossian is succeeded by his 14 year old son, Tylion, who is forced to sign the new political division of power into law. What was once a verbal agreement between the emperor and the princes is now written down. BC 8350: The first group of colonists goes south to the Vulcanian Peninsula, where they found the port city of Erkalion. A minor population explosion occurs in Xerothnyi, forcing that region to expand westwards, onto Davania proper. Formal relations with the kingdom of Ilarnn, which now borders Xerothnyi, begin. BC 8299: A group of explorers lands in what will become the Lost Valley, they found a small trading post, and do business with the Oltec inhabitants. BC 8289: Peace treaties and trade pacts are established with the Tanagoro on Skothar, the Oltecs of Brun and Davania, and the lizard men kingdoms of the Aryptian Basin region. BC 8264: The permanent settlement of Thallios is built upon the old trading post in the future Lost Valley region. The Lhomarrians have entered the Late Bronze Age. BC 8260: Word reaches Lhomarr of a large island far to the northwest, upon which are built great cities of obsidian and basalt, inhabited by lizard-like people. There are also tales of the fabulous wealth that lies in abundance there. Word also spreads of many wars in that region, and of refugees fleeing southwards and eastwards. Many Lhomarrians do not know what to make of this. Emperor Mordalios sends a diplomatic envoy to where this island is said to be, in the hopes of concluding relations with them. BC 8250: The Lhomarrian envoys finally locate Y'hegg-T'uhath. They are guided to Y'hog, the capital city, and are treated to a banquet. The food was drugged, and those that partook of it are sacrificed. One man does not eat, but witnesses the sacrifice from a secure vantage point. He flees to the quay, and orders the Lhomarrian ship's crew to head for Lhomarr immediately. BC 8249: The Lhomarrian ship returns from Y'hegg-T'uhath, and the tale is told to the emperor. Mordalios decides to do nothing, relying on the military might of Nevumm, Orimul, and other Davanian nations to keep any threats from the west at bay. BC 8006: Nevumm is conquered by the invading hordes of Carnifex and Troglodytes. Those who do not escape are sacrificed. BC 7962: Orimul is destroyed by the Carnifex. Some survivors flee to the Serpent Peninsula, and go to what will become the Atruaghin Clans. BC 7903: Ilarnn is occupied by the Carnifex. Xerothnyi now borders the enemy. Panic spreads throughout the peninsula, and in Lhomarr proper. BC 7900: Emperor Kirthos sends a large naval force to Xerothnyi, and lands 30,000 soldiers there to hold the peninsula. BC 7895: Ilarnn is liberated by the Lhomarrians. It becomes a protectorate of Lhomarr. BC 7500: Lhomarr, almost broken by the strains of war, demands assistance from its neighbours, who have been rebuilding themselves behind the Lhomarrian shield. Ilarnn and Suur send military aid. BC 7465: The Carnifex port city of Azhat-Ith is conquered. Both it and its inhabitants are destroyed. BC 7460: Eldamir is founded on the site of Azhat-Ith by the Lhomarrians. BC 7380: By this time the Carnifex have been pushed out of Davania. The time of reconstruction begins. The great fortress-city of Valannir is built on the northwestern coast of Davania by the Lhomarrians. BC 7200: A second horde of Carnifex and their servitors sweeps down from Y'hegg-T'uhath, landing near Valannir and destroying it utterly. BC 7178: Eldamir is besieged and destroyed. BC 7153: Furious Lhomarrian forces take vengeance and destroy the rebuilt Azhat-Ith. BC 7140: The remaining Carnifex-led forces are thrown out of Davania a second time. BC 7037: Lhomarr decides to end the Carnifex menace once and for all. The emperor orders Brell, a legendary Lhomarrian general, to lead a force of 120,000 men to Y'hegg-T'uhath, and to destroy everything they find. The Lhomarrian armies, and their allies, gather at Valannir and cross the Straits of Mist to the island. BC 7033: Y'hog is surrounded. A two-year siege begins. BC 7031: Y'hog is looted and burned. Many of its inhabitants are slaughtered, and those who survive flee into the catacombs beneath. BC 7029: The third horde arises from the ruins of Y'hog, overrunning coastal settlements on Davania. BC 7027: The City-State of Pelenzor is utterly destroyed by the Carnifex horde, who now possess the rich Izondian grasslands. The Lhomarrian Fifteenth Legion, and the Suurian Second Legion are dispatched from the Adakkian Sound to meet the force. They do battle amidst the ruins of Pelenzor, in which Brell is killed by a poisoned arrow. The Lhomarrian and Suurian forces are routed, and flee to the southeast. BC 7026: Suur falls to the Carnifex hordes. BC 7025: By this time the fleeing allies have been pushed into eastern Ilarnn and Xerothnyi, as well as Prys. The southern front, manned by Lhomarrians and lizard men, is holding, allowing the people of Prys to evacuate en masse to Lhomarr - a flight of some 250,000 Lhomarrians and 5,000 lizard men over eight months, with ships arriving and departing almost around the clock. The western front is continually in danger of collapsing, as it is facing the brunt of the Carnifex military might. The evacuation of Ilarnn and Xerothnyi is not nearly so organized, with many overcrowded ships sinking in the harbours. While the front holds, about 180,000 Lhomarrians, 50,000 Ilarnnians, and 28,000 Suurians manage to flee to Lhomarr. The Battle of Okhtor Pass is also fought this year, which routs about half of the Carnifex horde, and buys valuable evacuation time. BC 7024: Late in this year, the last port in Xerothnyi, Pirolos, falls to the Carnifex after bitter house-to-house fighting. Many thousands of Lhomarrians were not fortunate enough to escape during the evacuation. Those who are discovered are killed, though a couple thousand manage to flee into the forests, ready to conduct a guerrilla campaign. Before the land is lost, a band of Lhomarrian warriors ambushes a Carnifex encampment, which is guarding an artifact of the Outer Beings. Not knowing what it is, but guessing at its importance, the Lhomarrians destroy it. BC 7023: Lhomarr is already feeling the pressure of having to house and feed over 500,000 refugees from the wars. Many died the previous winter, and plagues become widespread due to the inability of the authorities to remove the dead in time. BC 7022: The Outer Beings are enraged over the destruction of their artifact, and decide to destroy the Lhomarrians themselves. They gather and channel their powers, and are strong enough to break free of their prisons long enough to concentrate their power unhindered upon Lhomarr. Earthquakes, torrential rains, and volcanic eruptions destroy the land, which sinks within 48 hours into the ocean. This is not before a few villages' worth of people, including the entire town of Pergamnos, are gathered by Ka the Preserver and sent to Suridal, in the Hollow World. BC 6500: Some residents of Thallios (in the Lost Valley region), realizing that Lhomarr is well and truly gone (many surviving colonists searched vainly for it over the centuries), decide to move north to better lands. The local climate has been getting cooler, and it is harder to survive. BC 6415: Thallios is destroyed by a volcanic eruption. Both it and its inhabitants are preserved in the falling volcanic ash (sort of like Pompeii). BC 6300: Survivors of the northern migration from Thallios reach the shores of the Adakkian Sound. They settle here for a while, and trade with the locals. BC 6130: The Lhomarrian settlers in the Adakkian Sound region are annihilated by roving barbarians. A few stragglers are absorbed into the local tribes. This is part of a plan by the Immortals the remove the Lhomarrian presence from the surface world, as their Hollow World counterparts are flourishing. BC 6000: By this time the settlements on the Vulcanian Peninsula, including the city of Erkalion, have been destroyed by wars amongst themselves, the worsening climate, or by barbarian hordes. BC 5800: Some scattered villages in the Lost Valley region still survive, although they have reverted to an Early Bronze Age existence. Since they are so isolated, and so few, the Immortals decide to allow them to remain. These people have forgotten much of their history, telling tales of their legendary ancestral home which are more exaggeration than fact. Frequent invasions by neighbouring peoples prevent them from expanding. BC 3000: The Great Rain of Fire. Many surviving Lhomarrian settlements in the Lost Valley are destroyed, many others are decimated by the climate change as temperatures drop considerably. Those that survive revert to a hunter-gatherer existence. BC 500: The Lhomarrians of the Lost Valley attain Early Bronze Age technology once again. AC 300: The Lhomarrians meet Milenian refugees, who fled the collapse of their empire. The newcomers are cautiously accepted, once they prove they mean no harm. The two cultures gradually combine, and a new nation is created, albeit a tiny one, once the language barrier is overcome. By this time legends of Lhomarr are all but forgotten. AC 1000: The present day. The Confederated Kingdom of Niscosenia enters the Middle Bronze Age. No contact with the outside world is yet established, save for those with the Tanagoro tribespeople to the east, with whom the Niscosenians trade and war. Rumours are spread of a tall ogre-like people over the mountains to the west. stan http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #247 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 22:57:58 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #248 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Sunday, April 26 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 248 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - The Empire of Selhomarr: Lhomarr in the Hollow World [MYSTARA] - The Empire of Selhomarr: Life as the Lhomarrians See It ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 12:56:23 +1000 From: shawn@leme.anu.edu.au (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Empire of Selhomarr: Lhomarr in the Hollow World Lhomarr in the Hollow World: Arrival in the Hollow World Upon their arrival on the continent of Suridal, the Lhomarrians found themselves in a land much like their old one, except that the skies were red, and the sun never set. Pergamnos was made a temporary capital, pending the construction of a new palace to house the young emperor, Timorian (he was the youngest son of the final emperor before the sinking of Lhomarr, who happened to be in Pergamnos when it was sent to the Hollow World). Construction and settlement proceeded quickly, until a new capital city, Calimnis, could be founded on the shores of the Bay of Lokam in BC 7015. The palace was not completed until BC 6992, when Timorian was already well into adulthood. Exploration of the continent proceeded soon afterwards, and it was found that they were currently inhabiting the central portion of the continent, near the "western" coast - by surface reckoning (the absence of a setting sun played havoc upon their navigational skills, but they adapted). The Lhomarrians were not alone in this new world, for small group of Ilarnnians had also been swept up along with them. They, too, wondered at their new home, and stayed near the Lhomarrians, for protection and for a sense of continuity. Before long, they migrated north, and founded their own villages and towns, but remained closely allied with the Lhomarrians, to the extent that, when a new Lhomarrian nation, known as "Selhomarr" (New Land of the Sea), was formed, the Ilarnnians willingly joined it as an autonomous region. This was, in fact, a continuation of the relationship they enjoyed with the Lhomarrians on the surface. As Ka and Ixion saw no danger of the loss of Ilarnnian culture, this was permitted. For over 800 years on the surface world the Ilarnnians had lived within the confines of the Lhomarrian sphere, and had maintained their language, culture, and a good relationship with their larger neighbour. Never being very numerous, and sharing many traditions with the Lhomarrians, the Neathar-descended Ilarnnians had almost become Lhomarrian themselves, in many ways, by the time they were sent to the Hollow World, though different enough to see themselves as distinct. The largest difference between the two was the relative absence of wanderlust among the Ilarnnians. While the Lhomarrians were intensely curious about what lay over the next hill, the Ilarnnians were content to look within themselves and be satisfied with what they had at the present. Thus the Ilarnnians largely remained within their towns, looking after their own affairs, and confident that, if there were any threats in the outside world, the Lhomarrians would deal with them. Ilarnnian towns were clean, prosperous, safe places to live, where everyone found satisfying work. Ilarnnians also found their way to power within the new Lhomarrian state. Where Lhomarrians made up the bulk of the explorers, soldiers, and citizenry, the Ilarnnians were often the top bureaucrats, diplomats, and administrators. Whenever a dispute arose between two provinces, the often impartial and objective Ilarnnians sent a magistrate to hear the case and deliver judgement. So these roles solidified with the assistance of the Spell of Preservation, such that few citizens of Selhomarr question how things are now run. Meetings Encountering no other cultures, the Lhomarrians and Ilarnnians concluded that they were the only peoples on this new world, or at least on their continent. They had also determined that Xeron, their chief god (another name for Ixion) had favoured them by saving their lives. Determined not to fail him, they made extra efforts to live justly and to take no more than what they needed. Over the centuries, Suridal had been mapped out, as well as the surrounding islands. With each newly discovered land, their sailors saw another island, or piece of coastline, farther away. By BC 5000, a great continent had been discovered, far to the "west". There, explorers discovered tribes of primitive humans, who communicated in a guttural language. They were at suspicious of the newcomers from over the sea, but they soon were able to establish that the strange sailors meant them no harm. That party of explorers stayed among the Brute-Men for the next fifteen years, learning their language. Soon afterwards, the party returned home, full of tales of other inhabitants on this world, as well as spreading knowledge of the Brute-Man tongue. The Time of Growth Millennia passed, a sporadic meetings took place between the Lhomarrians and the Brute-Men, and also with Neathar tribes, who had arrived in the Hollow World not long before a Lhomarrian visit to Iciria in BC 3300. At these meetings, valuables were exchanged, as well as tales. Thus, the Lhomarrians were kept informed as to what was going on in Iciria, albeit sporadically. With the coming of the Neathar, the Lhomarrians also acquired knowledge of the language of those people, a move by Ixion to ensure that the Lhomarrians would be able to communicate with their neighbours. This period was also marked by a steady growth of the Lhomarrian culture on Suridal, which had covered one-third of Suridal's landmass by BC 5200. Great civic works were built, such as roads, aqueducts, sewers, canals for irrigation, and statues. Within three centuries, no settlement with a population greater than 1,000 people was without running water of some sort, and smaller settlements were always a short distance away from places that had such amenities. Accompanying this time of growth was also a time of increased contacts. In BC 2800, a Lhomarrian expedition, while exploring the "western" coasts of Iciria, came upon a people who called themselves the Azca. Although their reception by the villagers was courteous, local priests had deemed the newcomers to be infidels, and ordered the local militia to kill them. Although many Lhomarrians escaped, they did not forget what happened to those who were not so lucky, and spread the word about the inhospitability of the Azcan leadership. To this day, no Lhomarrian sailor will willingly sail in Azcan waters, nor will they have any dealings with them. It was also around this time that certain Lhomarrian sages felt an incredible urge to voyage to Iciria, and from there to the World Spine mountains. This was in fact prodding from Ka for the greatest Lhomarrian sages of the day to make their way to the Lighthouse, where they would join like-minded people from other cultures to preserve the lore of the Hollow World. These sages were the first Lhomarrians to go, and those people recruited their replacements later on, beginning a period of formal Lhomarrian involvement in the affairs of their world. In BC 2347, another Lhomarrian expedition landed on the southern coasts of Iciria, and there encountered the Tanagoro people. The initial meeting, although strained due to a lack of understanding, was peaceful enough, once the Lhomarrians had established that they had no territorial designs upon the Tanagoro. They exchanged gifts, and news of recent happenings, over subsequent visits. Although contact between the two remains infrequent, no animosity has existed. No Longer Distant Only once in their entire history in the Hollow World did the Lhomarrians ever see another people come to their own shores. In BC 1590, a small fleet of Antalian ships crossed the Sea of Rax from Iciria to land near the Lhomarrian port of Nevora, which was then sacked and burned by the raiders. Few people died in the raid, but many homes were destroyed, and countless relics disappeared into the sacks of strangers. The Antalians managed to flee before an organized response could be sent, but the deed had been done. The next year, empress Disana assembled a council of her top generals, and discussed the prospect of such an attack happening again. They all agreed that Selhomarr had grown too complacent in its relative isolation, and must take steps to ensure that its security did not become threatened. It was decided that more frequent envoy missions be sent out into the world, as it appeared to them that more and more cultures were making themselves known. Unlike the peoples of the mainland, the Lhomarrians and Ilarnnians had nowhere to run if their island continent came under a concerted attack. They also decided to send out regular naval patrols to scout the Seas of Rax and Keleb within a 100 mile range of the coast, in order to ensure a buffer zone within which no hostile forces could gather. Within two years' time a Lhomarrian patrol encountered another group of Antalian raiders, whose longships were unmistakable. The Lhomarrians chased their enemies down, and captured the crews of those ships they did not sink. They allowed one crew to take one of the surviving Antalian ships back to their homeland, where they could warn their masters not to attack Selhomarr ever again, or face dire consequences. They were also sent with the message that the other surviving sailors would be held indefinitely if the riches taken from Nevora were not returned. Those who were captured were imprisoned, but treated well. Within a year, one of the more powerful Antalian warlords sent a delegation to Selhomarr, both to claim the captured warriors and to return what remained of the loot. The exchange was civil, and from this meeting a more peaceful relationship developed. Although incidences of Antalian raiding still occurred from time to time, they recognized that, beneath their "soft" exteriors, the Lhomarrians were not a people to be trifled with, and were indeed quite capable of defending themselves. The Lhomarrians, for their own part, learned about the fragmented nature of Antalian society, and that peace with one warlord did not necessarily mean the same arrangement with others. So it has remained to this day, that about one-quarter of the Antalian populace is at peace with the Lhomarrians, with whom they trade their furs and crafts for those of Lhomarrian make. The Second Period of Exploration Emperor Haldassos, an emperor of note during the history of the imperial dynasty in the Hollow World, took it upon himself, in BC 895, to commission a comprehensive exploration of the world, thus far not undertaken. In the past, exploration of many of Iciria's coasts had been done, but not so extensively that useful maps had been drawn of the areas. By BC 893, a large fleet of ships, with non-perishable trade goods, diplomatic envoys, soldiers, and cartographers left Selhomarr. They set sail near the end of that year, the majority headed for Iciria, and the remainder sailing further "east", to the continent of Jomphur, which had been briefly visited long before, but not explored extensively. In BC 891, a Lhomarrian expedition penetrated far enough into Iciria to make formal contact with the Kogolor Dwarves. An envoy was posted in the capital city of Kolmstat, and formal trade relations were concluded in BC 890. In exchange for dwarven stonemasonry skills, the Lhomarrians would provide rare spices, preserved fish, and fine woodworking. In BC 890 as well, a party on the other side of Iciria made contact with Jennite herdsmen. They had stopped near the shores on their way towards a meeting with the Tanagoro, and encountered a clan of Jennites who had migrated to the coast, the first of their people to do so (hence, the reason why they had not been encountered before). After it was found that Neathar was a language both could understand, the formalities of opening relations between the two people was carried out. In exchange for rare spices and fine bronze weaponry, the Lhomarrians received many fine horses, which they took home with them. This period of peace continued for many centuries more, until, by AC 100, the Lhomarrians had met the Nithians, the Milenians, and the Krugel Hordes. The Nithians were first encountered in BC 393, when an expedition commissioned by empress Jehannia came across some Nithian fishermen in Lake Menkor, who reacted with surprise. That same day the explorers were conducted to the capital city of Tarthis, where they met the local priests and elders, who determined that the Lhomarrians meant them no harm. Since then, a peaceful, albeit sporadic, relationship exists between the two cultures, who trade in magical research and foodstuffs. The Krugel Hordes were first encountered in BC 287, when another Lhomarrian expedition landed on the shores of the Sea of Eadh in order to replenish some supplies. They found themselves in a barren land, apparently devoid of inhabitants. Before long, a roving group of Krugel orcs happened upon them, and tried to drive them away. The Lhomarrians fought back, and decimated the orcs. Word spread quickly among the various orcish tribes of a strange group of humans from over the sea, who were dangerous. Although the Lhomarrians never returned to those shores, the orcs have always maintained a detachment to keep watch over the sea, fearful that humans could appear so suddenly and do so much damage, as the memory of the Battle of Sardal Pass was fresh in their memories. Should the Lhomarrians ever return, they would find concerted resistance to any explorations further inland, but would not be harassed should they remain on the coast. In AC 227, another expedition under the command of emperor Xanthos was restocking depleted supplies on what is now the Island of Amora, which had not been visited for many centuries. Upon landing on the shores, the expedition members saw some figures in the distance converging on their ship, the only large object near the otherwise empty shoreline. These figures soon resolved themselves into local Milenian farmers and shepherds, who had seen the strange-looking ship approach their island many hours before, and had waited until it finally came to shore. Both groups found they had the Neathar tongue in common, and they used it to convey who they were and where they were from. After initial stories and pleasantries were exchanged, the Lhomarrians were surprised to find that they shared many cultural similarities with these people - moreso than most other peoples they had met thus far during their time in the Hollow World. Over the following years, a friendly relationship developed between the Lhomarrians and the Milenians, but it was tempered by the reluctance of the Lhomarrians to take the Milenians' side in their disputes with the Jennites, who also happened to be on friendly terms with the Lhomarrians. Indeed, the Lhomarrians were dismayed to find that so many of the different peoples in this new world were seemingly in perpetual conflict with each other, such that they could not logically take anyone's side, at the risk of jeopardizing ties with other peoples. This dilemma has dimmed some people's views of the Lhomarrians over time, since they have proven themselves reluctant to take anyone's side against another. The Modern Era With the arrival of the Shajapurans and the Merry Pirates since AC 0, the Lhomarrians have met almost every culture that has arrived in the Hollow World, with the exception of the Oltecs, the Schattenalfen, the Gentle Folk, the Kubitts, the Beastmen, the Malpheggi Lizard Men, the Icevale and Blacklore Elves, and the Traldar. They have listened to the tales from each friendly people as to how they arrived on the world, and have been amazed that each of these people came from a world so much like their old one, of which many legends are still told. Of course, the vast majority of Lhomarrians believe that their own world was destroyed when their old continent sank, so any legends of sunken continents from these other people must be coincidental. In general, the Lhomarrians bear no ill will towards any other people, and will go to great pains to avoid conflict; for the memories of the old wars with the Carnifex of Y'hog are retold to each generation, and details of each battle are still meticulously kept. Such is their aversion to war that they will refuse to involve themselves in the conflicts on Iciria. Those foolish enough to attack Selhomarr will pay with their lives, however, as memories of the wars with Y'hog are also rich in the accounts of the destruction of the old nations of Davania. As implied earlier, the Lhomarrians are generally accepted most places they go, not only because of their generally non-threatening nature; but also due to the fact that it is widely known they will not take sides in any dispute, due to their diplomatic position. This perception is a double-edged sword, however, because many people also see them as aloof of other people's affairs, and uncaring of anything outside their own sphere. Some even resent the Lhomarrians for their geographical distance - secure as they appear to be on their own continent half a world away - and consider any involvement by them to be unnecessary interference. Such perceptions are relatively rare, but many view the Lhomarrians with some degree of suspicion. After all, they are located far away (and who knows what they do in their own land?), they have a foreign culture, and they claim to have been on this world for millennia. Such suspicions and suppositions even extend to their homeland, which is either viewed as a mighty empire poised to conquer the world, an idyllic paradise that only the Lhomarrians can safely find, a nightmarish realm that the Lhomarrians wish to keep secret, or some combination of the three. This, then, is how the Lhomarrians developed in the Hollow World - as a people wanting to get involved in the world, but at the same time held back by geography, history, and by cultural differences. Summary Timeline of Lhomarrian History in the Hollow World Below is a timeline summarizing the more important events in the history of the Lhomarrians in the Hollow World: BC 7022: Some Lhomarrians are rescued by Ka the Preserver and are sent to their new home, on the continent of Suridal. The entire town of Pergamnos is taken, along with several thousand Lhomarrians and Ilarnnians. Young Timorian is now emperor of the Lhomarrians, having been in Pergamnos at the time of the sinking. Pergamnos is also made the temporary capital of the new realm. BC 7015: The new capital city of Calimnis is founded on the shores of the Bay of Lokam. BC 6992: The Imperial Palace is completed. It is a veritable work of art, and an almost perfect replica of the old palace at Regemnon, the original capital. BC 6920: By this time the Ilarrnians have migrated to the northern shores of the Bay of Lokam, where they found their own communities in order to maintain their culture and traditions. This is also encouraged by Ka, as it ensures greater cultural diversity in the Hollow World. BC 6912: The Empire of "Selhomarr" (New Land of the Sea) is officially created, although it has existed in the peoples' hearts for decades now. Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 22:57:58 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #248 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com The Ilarnnians on the north shore, recognizing their historical ties with the Lhomarrians, willingly join the new nation as an autonomous region. Both ethnic groups agree to share a common currency, obey similar laws, and recognize the Lhomarrian emperor as the sovereign. Apart from that, the Ilarnnians are free to administer their region as they see fit. BC 6730: At this time, the entire Tylerian Peninsula (the large peninsula that juts into the Bay of Lokam from the south) has been settled by towns and villages of varying sizes. Some settlers head south, towards the Lhomarrian Range (the mountains along the "southeastern" - by surface reckoning - coast of Suridal). BC 6400: Many Lhomarrian settlements have by now been established along the northern shore of the Bay of Lokam. The Ilarnnians are no longer cut off from the rest of the empire, and are, in fact, surrounded by it. BC 6022: The thousandth anniversary of what the Lhomarrians and Ilarnnians call "The Homecoming" is commemorated. All year long, songs are sung of old Lhomarr, and of the battles against the Carnifex of Y'hog. The mark the occasion, some carefully preserved seeds, taken from the Holy Grove of the Great Temple of Xeron in Regemnon just before the sinking of Lhomarr, are planted along the central highlands of the Tylerian Peninsula. This land most resembles old Lhomarr in climate and layout. From these seeds grow the Great Forest of Marinnir. BC 5800: The Great Forest of Marinnir has become a living landmark, open to all citizens of the empire, no matter what their social station. The great oaks and Dillianora (a type of tree found only in old Lhomarr) are hundreds of feet in height, and of great width. Empress Camindria, by imperial edict, forbids the harming of any tree in this forest, as they are sacred. She also commissions the main druidic order to care for the forest, a task they accept. BC 5467: The city of Annurios is founded, on the "eastern" coast of the Bay of Lokam. This is the easternmost extent of Selhomarr. BC 5300: Suridal has been fully mapped out by this time. Explorers are now venturing out into the Seas of Rax and Keleb. BC 5250: The uninhabited Wintlian Islands have been visited by the Lhomarrians, mapped, and left behind. BC 5236: The southern coast of Aerical is reached by the Lhomarrians. As these shores are very mountainous and severe, they elect to return home, believing that no one could possibly live there. They are also short on supplies, making further explorations of the continent impossible. BC 5200: By this time Selhomarr has attained its present borders, centring largely around the Bay of Lokam. Ka ensures that the Lhomarrians do not expand any further. Any settlements that appear outside these borders tend to be destroyed by the elements or by rampaging animals, or they simply disappear. Ixion also sends a message to his priests that the lands they occupy now are all they are to be allotted in this new world. This message is taken as the Word of Xeron, and, by order of the emperor, further settlements outside the current borders are forbidden. Attention is now paid to developing the lands already possessed, in order to maximize their use. BC 5000: The continent of Iciria is discovered by Lhomarrian sailors. Over the next few weeks, inroads are made into the mainland, where groups of Brute-Men are encountered. After initial suspicions are overcome, the meeting becomes friendly. The Lhomarrians are grateful to have met anyone at all, and do not think about trying to elevate the Brute-Men out of their primitive state. The explorers take back with them, after a 15-year stay, gifts from the Brute-Men, as well as knowledge of their language. This information will be studied by Lhomarrian scholars for decades to come. This is also a period of cultural development in Selhomarr. Roads are built, and aqueducts stretch across the countryside - integrating the entire empire. BC 4000: The Lhomarrians visit the Brute-Men many more times by this time, learning that, for some reason, the Brute-Men seem to prefer their own, more primitive weapons and items to those offered by the Lhomarrians. This is, in fact, the Spell of Preservation at work, although the Lhomarrians do not know this. The two peoples nevertheless manage to set up a trade in certain goods, such as the preserved foods made by the Lhomarrians for the simple, but attractive, jewellery of the Brute-Men. This trade is appreciated, but each group still prefers its own products (although the preserved fish saves the lives of some Brute-Men during poor hunting seasons) . BC 3300: The Neathar are encountered by the Lhomarrians. They note that the Neathar are a fragmented, but more advanced people. Ixion ensures the Lhomarrians learn the Neathar tongue, so that they will be able to communicate more easily with other peoples. Trade is established with the Neathar as well, and tales are exchanged with them. The Lhomarrians now have two sources of news for events on Iciria. BC 2800: A Lhomarrian expedition meets a group of Azcans while exploring the "western" costs of Iciria. Although the people themselves seem quite friendly, the local priests deem the Lhomarrians infidels, and have the local militia try to kill them. Most of the party escapes, but the memory of this event does not die quickly, such that, today, no Lhomarrian will willingly sail near the Azcan empire, nor will they do business with them. It is also around this time that leading Lhomarrian sages hear the call of Ka the Preserver in their sleep, and head, by his guidance, to the Lighthouse, where they meet other knowledgeable people from the other inhabitants of the Hollow World. Ka has determined that the Lhomarrians are ready to play a part on the protection of the world's lore, and its cultures. BC 2347: The Tanagoro are encountered in southern Iciria. The meeting is friendly, although awkward due to cultural differences. Once it is established that the Lhomarrians have no territorial designs upon the Tanagoro, tensions ease. Gifts are exchanged, as is news of local events. BC 1590: After almost a thousand years of quiet, the Selhomarr is attacked for the first time since the arrival of the Lhomarrians in the Hollow World. A small fleet of Antalian sailing ships, exploring uncharted waters, lands near the northern town of Nevora. It is sacked and burned, although relatively few people are killed (most fled their homes upon sight of the armed strangers). News of the event reaches nearby settlements within hours, although the raiders are long gone before concerted resistance can be brought to bear. BC 1589: Empress Disana, along with a council of Lhomarrian generals and princes, decides that Selhomarr has grown too complacent in its isolation, and that it was not prepared for any military emergency. As a result, the standing army is increased, and patrols of the surrounding waters, to a distance of 100 miles, are stepped up. BC 1588: A small Antalian fleet, thinking that Selhomarr would be an easy raid (news of the raid on Nevora spread quickly throughout the Antalian settlements), runs afoul of a Lhomarrian patrol. After a fierce battle, half of the raiders' ships are sunk, and one ship and its crew are allowed to return home, with the message that the other survivors would be held indefinitely unless the plunder from Nevora was returned. They were also told that any further raids on Selhomarr would be dealt with harshly. The prisoners are taken to Selhomarr, where they are treated well. The Lhomarrians learn about Antalian society during this time. Later this year, another group of Antalians comes to Selhomarr under a truce to take back the prisoners, and to return what remains of the treasure. Neutral relations develop with this group of Antalians. BC 1550: By this time the occasional raid by Antalians has occurred, but the Lhomarrians realize that, because of their fragmented nature, total peace with these people is impossible. BC 895: Emperor Haldassos commissions a comprehensive exploration of the world, which will fill in some gaps on the Lhomarrian maps, as well as update their information. BC 893: The great exploration fleet, now provisioned, sets sail. Half of the ships go "west" towards Iciria, and the other half go "east" towards Jomphur. BC 891: Contact with the Kogolor dwarves is established. Relations are friendly, with formal relations being concluded the next year. BC 890: Contact with the Jennites is made. Both are able to communicate in the Neathar tongue, and an exchange of gifts is made. BC 500: By this time much of the Hollow World has been mapped out by the Lhomarrians, and volumes of texts are written on the various flora, fauna, and peoples encountered. BC 393: Empress Jehannia commissions another fleet to voyage to Iciria, which had not been visited for over 100 years. The Nithians are contacted on this voyage, and formal relations develop, which are largely peaceful. BC 287: The Krugel orcs are encountered for the first time, after the orcs tried to attack some Lhomarrians who had landed on nearby shores to replenish supplies. The orcs lose the fight, and, although no Lhomarrians are met again, they remain watchful for further Lhomarrian activity, fearing their might. AC 227: Contact with the Milenians is established. The two cultures find they have much in common, and a peaceful relationship develops. AC 1000: The present day. The Lhomarrians have successfully avoided involvement in the major conflicts of Iciria, but because of this they are seen as a distant and aloof people by others. The people of Selhomarr realize that, in order to dispel these beliefs, they would have to take an active role in Icirian affairs, something they feel would be resented, and would cost them the friendship, or at least neutrality, of several peoples. They have also encountered the Shahjapurans and the Merry Pirates by this time, but no one else. stan http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 12:57:25 +1000 From: shawn@leme.anu.edu.au (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Empire of Selhomarr: Life as the Lhomarrians See It Life as the Lhomarrians See It: The Self and the Community: A father speaking to his children the evening before their Wandering: "As in the olden days of Lhomarr, and of today, the life of the average citizen of the realm is one of striving for accomplishment. All other benefits in life, be they wealth, happiness, or a long life, are all products of a striving for personal achievement. Strive for this one virtue, and all others will come in their time, if you are truly deserving of them. "Now, the only way to achieve what you desire in life is to focus yourself totally upon your goal, whatever it may be. You must be totally loyal, absolutely devoted to your task. Your concentration must not falter by the tiniest amount. Then, and only then, will you see the results of your efforts. "Yet another pillar of our lives is devotion to those we love and cherish. When you have families of your own, you must provide for them to the utmost, give of yourself so that the next generation may build upon what you have accomplished. If you do not, you will betray the trust and labour of countless generations before you. Remember the tales that Gallos the Aged told you in the town square, about the Homecoming? In them is the reason why we fight for our families and for our people above ourselves. When our people came to this new world, we had nothing but each other. Only by sacrificing for all were we able to rebuild our shattered homes and lives.. "Remember that Xeron watches over us all, and especially those of us on our Wandering. Do no unkind act to your neighbour, and help the helpless. Render unto the weak your entire spirit, and Xeron shall protect you. "Now, why don't you two go to sleep? The hour is late, and unless you get a good rest, you will be too tired to meet up with your friends on the Wandering tomorrow!" As the above passage implies, the notion of devoting oneself to personal accomplishment is highly important to the Lhomarrians. It does not matter what you do - as long as you devote yourself to your task, and give your best effort. Going hand in hand with this is the idea that, as long as you devote yourself to these principles, all things you wish to accomplish will come to pass in their own time. This national drive for development and accomplishment is tempered by the realization that the common good must come before that of the individual. Thus, the average Lhomarrian strives for perfection in everything that he or she does, so that his or her efforts will benefit the rest of society the most. This belief was in existence even when old Lhomarr still existed, but was reinforced by the war with Y'hog, and by the early years of hardship in the Hollow World - not to mention the Spell of Preservation. As a result, the perception that the good of the people must come before that of the individual was firmly entrenched in the Lhomarrian psyche. This does not mean, of course, that a Lhomarrian will sacrifice his or her life for any cause; it has to be for something that will have an impact on those he or she cares about, or on the people as a whole. Neither will a Lhomarrian willingly risk his or her own life for something trivial or pointless. For example, a Lhomarrian would lay down his life in order to ensure the escape of his friends from danger, not only because it is better to lose only one person as opposed to a group; it is also because, in Lhomarrian culture, friendship is among the most sacred bonds, and he would want his friends to live. Lhomarrians do not make friends easily, not because they are inherently unfriendly; but because, to them, friendship implies a willingness to sacrifice one's life for another. Therefore, they do not make such a commitment to just anyone - a true friend is someone who has proved himself over time to be loyal, trustworthy, and open, and who respects such a bond. In the same light, a Lhomarrian will not sacrifice his life for a pointless cause. If nothing will be gained my sacrificing one's own life to hold off a foe (i.e.: all of his friends would die anyway, or that such a sacrifice is not needed when other solutions are available), then a Lhomarrian will not do so. In some cases, it is better to fight and run away, so that one may fight another day. This is to say that Lhomarrians are not a fatalistic people - they have a definite sense of self-preservation, and know when sacrifices would only cause more harm. Lhomarrians who act selfishly (at least, by Lhomarrian standards) are not ostracized by their people, as some might expect. Instead, they are looked upon with pity, as though they are flawed beings - missing some vital element in their being. They are treated the same as foreigners would be - people who are closed- minded, unaware of the higher purpose of serving the community, so that it might serve them when they are in need. Some attempts might be made to bring them into the fold, but such "aberrations" are largely left to themselves, as it has been deemed by the high priests that it is the will of Xeron that such people exist, to test the resolve of the majority. Of course, none of this means that a Lhomarrian PC, for example, would be totally bound by such beliefs. The player is free to control his or her player as they see fit; they should just keep the above information in mind. The Role of Xeron (and Other Immortals): >From a prayer by Thessia, High Priestess at Calmnis: "Blessed be the wonders of Xeron, for He is the light. Blessed be the powers of Xeron, for He is the shaper of all things. He is the maker of the trees, the sky, the earth, the very mountains. He is all." The centre of Lhomarrian culture revolves around Xeron, otherwise known as Ixion. He is the provider of the Hollow World's sun - this the Lhomarrian priests have learned. Thus, the Lhomarrians believe it is by his will that all life survives - proof of his superiority in all things. They also believe that they were saved by Xeron for their virtue on the "old world" (the surface), and that they have been given a second chance to prove themselves worthy of his praise. This is incorrect, for it was Ka the Preserver who brought them here - Ixion had nothing to do with it, though he certainly didn't mind the salvation of a nation of his followers. The Lhomarrians are also aware of Xeron's temperamental nature - like a fire, his emotions change and flicker. They realize this, but they forgive him for it, and try to live their lives in as balanced a fashion as possible. This is because they both respect and fear his power. Beyond this, however, Xeron is revered as the creator of all - all living things of the world are his creations, no matter how malevolent they may be. If his creations attack the Lhomarrians, then it is a test of the Lhomarrians' faith and spirit as a people. The only exception to this is the Carnifex, acknowledged as evil incarnate and the products of blasphemous Beings beyond the realms of sanity. Although none have been encountered since the sinking of Lhomarr, they are remembered, and cursed, through the mourning of the loss of the old land. Xeron is then looked upon as the provider of all, the creator of all, and the protector of all that is good. Such an attitude evolved over millennia of trials and tribulations. Thus, while the Lhomarrians are not a fatalistic people, putting all of their faith on the will of one Immortal, they do see Xeron as a controlling power, but one whose rules are flexible enough to work with, and to allow a good measure of free will. Likewise, just as qualities favoured by Xeron are valued by the Lhomarrians, those opposed to him are regarded as evil. For example, the very concept of the undead is considered abhorrent, and such creatures are destroyed wherever they are found. Also considered evil is the Immortal Thanatos, and all related worship of him. The Outer Beings worshipped by the Carnifex, and that race in particular, are also considered abhorrent in the extreme, to such an extent that those found honouring these beings are either exiled or executed. Xeron is not the only Immortal honoured by the Lhomarrians. The fastest-growing religion in Selhomarr is the worship of Diulanna. In recent centuries she has taken notice of the strong-willed character of these people, and has become well acquainted with their history and culture. Seeing the Lhomarrians as a people who unwittingly follow her own principles, she has appeared in recent centuries to more open-minded priests, who have converted to her ways. Now, temples to Diulanna are slowly spreading across the empire, though still in the shadow of those to Xeron. The priesthood of Xeron, seeing that the priests of Diulanna pose no threat to them, have allowed this worship to exist. Also worshipped by some Lhomarrians are Thanatos and the Outer Beings, though this is illegal, and ceremonies are held in secret. Their rituals are dark and blasphemous, involving experiments on the undead, and plots to seize power. The Role of the Priesthood: Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 22:57:58 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #248 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com >From another speech by Gallos the Aged, at Myiad: "Without the illumination provided by our sagely priests in all matters spiritual, I have no doubt that we would be lost to the world of Men, for they showed us the true way of Xeron - and of salvation." For many Lhomarrians, the priesthood has been the only social force that has remained largely unchanged over time. The imperial dynasty has been overthrown once, with the execution of Galhossian (even though his son assumed the throne afterwards), and the land of Lhomarr itself has been destroyed by sinking. Only the people themselves remain, and their memories and beliefs. It was the priesthood that helped the Lhomarrians rebuild in their new home, and it was the priesthood that has kept alive numerous traditions, as well as preserved the accumulated lore of the Lhomarrians intact (some ancient scrolls date from the time before the sinking of Lhomarr, but these are truly rare, and guarded closely). The priesthood is the centre of most Lhomarrians' daily lives. Whether it is to celebrate a new birth, the coming of age called the Wandering, or a marriage, or to commemorate a death, the priests and priestesses of Xeron contribute to their communities by reminding people of their duties to society, to Xeron, and to themselves. Finally, many Lhomarrians look to their local priests and priestesses for guidance, or just for someone to hear them out. The majority of Selhomarr's priesthood, about 65%, is female. Because of this fact, religious and spiritual matters are often held by the average Lhomarrian to be the province of women, believed to be the more spiritual sex. Perhaps the most important aspect of the priesthood's role is its duty to educate the young, assisted by the elderly. Under Lhomarrian law, all children are required to attend school between the ages of 6 and 14. Most schools are one-room affairs, located throughout the towns, cities, and villages so that all families will have a school within two or three miles' distance. The curriculum consists of mathematics, reading, writing, singing, basic nature lore, geography, and history. The end result is that almost all Lhomarrians have a solid, albeit subjective and basic, understanding of their history, as well as their part of the world. The above skills learned in school do not necessarily translate into actual attribute-based skills; rather, they provide a benchmark by which other can assess how educated, or well-rounded, a person is. As a result of this system, which originated on the surface, the priesthood has strong influence over the young, which it takes very seriously. Due in part to tradition, and to the Spell of Preservation, no priest would dream of using his or her position to influence the minds of the young towards a malign goal - though this does not mean it never happens. For this duty to the young, then, the priesthood is doubly honoured. This duty is also performed by the elderly, as mentioned above, though to a lesser extent. Lhomarrian society does not make light of the great potential the elders of a community have towards influencing the young. As a result, venerable citizens are often encouraged to get involved in the community, to share what they have learned, and to provide extra guidance. The Role of the Druids: Part of the Druid's Chant: "We are the keepers of the sacred trust. The trust of the trees, of the rivers, of life itself. We guard them as we would guard our loved ones, for there is no difference." Just as the priesthood has the role of safeguarding the spirituality and the souls of the people, so the druidic orders scattered throughout Selhomarr protect the sanctity of the land itself. The druids venture into the wilds to heal the sick and wounded flora and fauna, discourage hunters from taking more than they are due, and educate the people on nature's bounty and what they are given in life. This role of protector originated on the surface world, not long before the sinking of Lhomarr. In the closing days of the war with Y'hog, the stresses of keeping up the war effort, and of feeding and housing the thousands of refugees that came to Lhomarr began to make themselves known. Conditions were so bad that citizens, desperate for wood to burn and food to eat, would go into the wild to fell trees by the dozen and hunt animals by the herd. The druids, alarmed at the prospect of mass extinction, and further misery, protected the pristine lands as best they could, so that nature's bounty would not be plundered forever. Small battles were fought in the forests, and the formerly indifferent druids became involved in the affairs of the nation through their experiences. Ka the Preserver saw this trait developing in the druids - this involvement in the state at large - and realized that it would be for the better, since all people could be made aware of what was happening in the wilderness. Thus, those druids he brought to the Hollow World were those who most strongly followed these principles. In the Hollow World, the druids guided the people by showing them what foods were safe to eat, when to hunt, and when not to. As a result, the Lhomarrians, under the tutelage of the druids, began to practice an early form of "sustainable development" - taking only what they needed from nature, and making sure that something is given back in return. The druids also, as with their surface counterparts, took care of the wild. They made sure the ecosystem did not get out of hand, and that no one destroyed anything wantonly. Currently, almost every reasonably-sized forest has a council of druids living within its bounds. The druids also have an important advisory role to play. Each year, all of the councils meet to determine who their High Emissary to the Emperor (or Empress) will be. This person is then sent to the capital city for one year, to advise the ruler on what sort of policy or action is required regarding the wilderness. They will tell him or her how many animals should be hunted, where the breeding grounds will be in a given year (so they can be avoided), and any news about events in the wild - such as diseases. The choice, determined by consensus, is then announced, and the new emissary is then dispatched to the capital. Just outside of Calimnis is the Imperial Grove, measuring 200 acres, where the emissary actually lives, and cares for the local wildlife. Once the emissary's term is up, he or she will return home, and a new emissary will be chosen. The Role of the Ruler: Spoken by Aymaranos, personal attendant to the emperor: "Our emperor is a man of great responsibility. On his shoulders rest the interests and the security of the state. He must do battle with political foes at home, and occasionally in the outside world. He must balance the will of the people with that of the priesthood and the druids, and that of Xeron. He does many things, but for all that I do not envy him. His is a lonely life, indeed." The ruler of Selhomarr, whether it is an emperor or an empress, has important and taxing duties. The primary responsibility of the ruler is to ensure the interests of the people, the priesthood, the druids, and of Xeron are all balanced as much as possible. This is done through the use of numerous advisors from each of these groups, who brief the ruler on the important issues of the day. Each of the ten regional princes also sends a representative to Calimnis to inform the ruler of what is happening in each province, as well as convey personal messages. Hopefully, the ruler can arrive at compromises that provide some satisfaction for all parties, though this does not always happen. For example, the druids might be upset that the princes in the northern provinces are allowing increased hunting, but this has been advised because the harvest was poorer than expected, and the priests have said that Xeron has decreed no one must go hungry this winter, because of ill omens for the future (perhaps a war or some other development that will require healthy people). This might anger northern farmers, who do not wish strangers traipsing around their lands looking for game. Such events as these, while a headache for the ruler, must be dealt with in order for Selhomarr to prosper. Normally, all parties concerned realize that concessions must be made on all sides if everyone is to ultimately benefit, so truly difficult situations are rare. The ruler must also see to the security of Selhomarr. Each prince must report to the ruler once per year to announce how many soldiers are available for combat, how many weapons are available, how shipbuilding is progressing, and so on. Using this information, the ruler can decide whether or not to beef up patrols, or to furnish another exploratory mission. These external concerns are also related to dealing with other nations - it is the ruler's duty to meet with any foreign dignitaries, and to represent his or her country's interests, and to defend them. Finally, as the embodiment of the nation, the ruler must ensure that he or she does nothing that would disgrace the imperial family, its legacy, or Selhomarr as a whole. This means that he or she must act courteously in public at all times, and provide an example for others to follow. Although the ruler is held accountable to the princes, the priesthood, the druids, and the people in the above manner, his or her power is determined by succession - the eldest son or daughter of the current ruler will be the one who sits on the throne, barring any accidents. For many rulers, ascending to the throne is the first time in their lives that they have any measure of autonomy. In most cases, marriage is determined before the future ruler gains power, often to the progeny of one of the regional princes - though these marriages do not confer any extra status on that prince. Politically speaking, the imperial consort has no real power, except in the case of the death of the ruler, in which case he or she assumes power until an heir is of age to assume the throne. Lhomarrians and the Hollow World, and Other Peoples: As has been discussed to a degree, the Lhomarrians are a fairly religious people. It is necessary to understand how these beliefs concerning Xeron and his role in their history affect the Lhomarrians' perception of the world, and of the other peoples in it. The general view among the Lhomarrians regarding the Hollow World is that they were the first people here, and they were brought here because of the will of Xeron, because he saw that some elements of Lhomarr were worth preserving, and that those who were saved were his chosen people. Other peoples, while generally deserving of respect, are not the chosen of Xeron, and so cannot possibly hold the same degree of favour with him enjoyed by the Lhomarrians. This is through no fault of their own, since they obviously came from other worlds, because the old world of Lhomarr's day was certainly destroyed with the continent's sinking. This does not mean that Lhomarrians consider themselves superior to other peoples, just different - closer to Xeron, the "true " god. As for other religions, they are also accorded some respect, as it is generally impolite to insult those things held dear by others. This is tempered with the knowledge that these other gods, or Immortals, cannot possibly be as powerful as Xeron, or as old. Otherwise, these other peoples would have been here before the Lhomarrians, and Xeron obviously created this world, according to the Lhomarrians, as he brought them here. Many Lhomarrians also see Xeron as the power behind the Hollow World's sun (which is true), but they accord him with the power over all forms of life, because, to the Lhomarrians, life is impossible without the sun's light. They have never met any race, nor seen any intelligent creatures, that live their lives underground, away from the sun's rays. Thus, according to Lhomarrian philosophy and theology, nothing can exist without Xeron. It is partially the Spell of Preservation, and also the will of Ixion, through his Lhomarrian priests, that this belief is held. Otherwise, the Lhomarrians would have begun to question how they were brought here - and where "here" is - and might eventually have figured out the truth behind the Hollow World. After all, they have spent enough time here to think long on the subject. Ixion realizes that this belief - that Xeron is the most powerful and oldest god - may make relations difficult, but the Lhomarrians are a peaceful people who would never warp such a belief into a notion of superiority. The other Immortals see that this solution is far from ideal, but it will hold off curiosity. The people of Selhomarr have also explored vast tracts of the world, and have reached the conclusion that they are living inside a sphere. The priesthood has thought long on the subject of what might lie on the other side, and has concluded that the domain of Xeron must surely lie there. If this is so, then all virtuous Lhomarrians will go there after they die, making this realm forbidden to mortals. This is another move by Ixion to discourage curiosity. By making the outside world taboo, only the most independent-minded Lhomarrians will venture forth, but many of these never return, anyway. Claims by "insane" veteran explorers who ventured south, beyond the Lands Without Light, that there is a cold world with blue skies and a yellow sun are refuted, for they ventured too close to Xeron's domain, and he chose not to let them see Paradise. How all of this applies to personal interactions is up to the individual (and to the DM). Most often, Lhomarrians will be polite to strangers, and accord them the respect due a human being. On theological issues, a Lhomarrian will also be polite, but very inflexible. They will calmly listen to what the other person has to say, but will insist that Xeron is the only "true" god, since their people came to the Hollow World before anyone else, and saw no evidence of the works of other gods. This is a result partly of the Spell of Preservation, which ossifies belief systems, the will of Ixion, as discussed above, and of the Lhomarrian education system, which has a definite bias. The results of such meetings are those described in the Hollow World DM's Guide. So, generally speaking, the Lhomarrians have used their long time spent here to explore their surroundings. The fact that they have been here so long, and that they have seen so much of the Hollow World, has led them to ask many questions about the nature of their home. Fortunately, the Spell of Preservation, and suggestions made by Ixion to his priests, have discouraged active contemplation of the true nature of the Hollow World, so that there is no danger of them finding out the truth. The Family and Domestic Life: To the average Lhomarrian, the family is the most important part of a person's life. Even a person's love and fear of Xeron, and for the people as a whole, must come second. Though one may not be able to live without sunlight, it is inconceivable to these people that a person could live without the love of another, or one's family. Likewise, if the family unit is weak, so too is the nation. Therefore, many Lhomarrians of all walks of life view the family as the central focus of one's life - without which nothing else is possible. In Lhomarrian society, both men and women are generally considered equal in the home. Both parents are expected by law, and by tradition, to share in the duties of raising children, and in maintaining a stable environment. This equality exists in almost all sectors of society, such that it is not uncommon to see women working as shopkeepers, entertainers, officials, and so on. Also, though women are free to pursue careers, Lhomarrian society strongly encourages men to do so. The belief is that, although both parents are equal, men are considered the main financial supporters of the family, and those who do not work are neglecting their duties. The only restrictions between the sexes that exist in Lhomarrian society concern the military. Officially, only men may serve in the army or the navy, though women who have trained themselves (up to second level or so) will find their services accepted, should they apply. Beyond that, just about every opportunity is open to both sexes. Just as duties towards the family are taken seriously by Lhomarrians, marriage is also an important responsibility. There is an unspoken expectation in Lhomarrian society that everyone will wed - those who do not are either considered to have a higher calling from Xeron himself, or odd, depending on how they behave in public. Marriage is invariably a serious event, but one full of joy. Each family assesses the other - how large their homes are, how much land they own, what their professions are - in order to determine the other family's social standing. This is not elitism; rather, it is done out of concern for the children that are sure to come. No Lhomarrian would want to enter into a family where the children are not provided or cared for properly, as such environments are not conducive to the youth achieving their potential. Society would ultimately suffer. Marriage is a lifetime commitment - there is no legal system of divorce. Thus, prospective partners also have to be sure about each other, as much as is possible, and even then to be prepared to work all their problems out. The Lhomarrian family is an extended one - it is common to see parents, two or three children, grandparents, and possibly unwed aunts and uncles living under one roof. Even when this is not so, almost all family members often live within walking distance of each other. All members of the family contribute to household chores, and for children, the word of their parents is law. This arrangement provides children with opportunities to learn from their grandparents, and to keep in contact with a larger portion of their family than is the case in other cultures. Also, this situation makes it far easier for women to earn a living - grandparents, aunts, and uncles are often available to look after the children for a few hours each day, when they are not at the local school. Most people in Selhomarr are either farmers or fishermen, meaning that the days are long and hard. This burden is lightened somewhat by having an extended family - there are many people around the help with the work - so the general mood is a quite happy one. Those living in the towns and cities have preserved this traditional social arrangement, through no small part by the Spell of Preservation. Whenever people find themselves with free time, the entire family gets together to tell stories, play various games, sing songs, or visit neighbours for an evening of revelry. The latter activity happens most often after the harvests are over, or the catches are in. stan http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #248 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 23:02:55 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #249 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Sunday, April 26 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 249 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Take a Chill Pill [MYSTARA] - The Empire of Selhomarr: The Lhomarrian Year and Events within it Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals [MYSTARA] - The Empire of Selhomarr: What Everyone Knows About the Lhomarrians [MYSTARA] - The Empire of Selhomarr: Geographic and Biological Overview [MYSTARA] - The Empire of Selhomarr: Lhomarrian Settlements [MYSTARA] - The Empire of Selhomarr: Notes on Various Lhomarrian Cities ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 22:58:24 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Take a Chill Pill In a message dated 98-04-24 18:44:54 EDT, JamugaKhan@aol.com writes: >Additionally they would attack when the EEthengarian brataks have spied out all important secrets. Of course, given that Cimarron is now fully afflicted by the Red Curse, those brataks could have some slight problems with reporting back.... Another issue -- in order to reach Cimarron, the Ethengars would have to conquer a lot of other nations in between. By the time Ethengar is a threat to Cimarron, they would have to control so much of the world that nobody would be able to stand up to them. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 12:59:01 +1000 From: shawn@leme.anu.edu.au (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Empire of Selhomarr: The Lhomarrian Year and Events within it The Lhomarrian Year and Events within it: As with other cultures, the Lhomarrians keep track of time. On the surface world, their year was measured by the phases of the moon, such that a full cycle of phases would constitute one Lhomarrian month. Thus, the old Lhomarrian calendar was much like the current Thyatian one in use in much of the Known World. Since their arrival in the Hollow World, the Lhomarrians have adapted to the lack of any moon or night sky. They have found that the various floating continents have cycles similar to that of the moon, such that their calendar remains essentially the same as before. The Lhomarrian year is divided into twelve months of 28 days each. Each month begins on the equivalent of the first day of the new moon, and ends with the equivalent of the final disappearance of the last of the "old moon". Of course, this is now measured by the positions of the floating continents. The months are as follows: Month Thyatian Equivalent Month Thyatian Equivalent Haristar Nuwmont Saklatar Felmont Thallistar Vatermont Gelmintar Fyrmont Arristar Thaumont Brethitar Ambyrmont Meneltar Flaurmont Dilmuntar Sviftmont Ormintar Yarthmont Rostar Eirmont Yhemtar Klarmont Gallotar Kaldmont The year's seasons are divided as follows: Winter: Meneltar, Ormintar, Yhemtar Spring: Saklatar, Gelmintar, Brethitar Summer: Dilmuntar, Rostar, Gallotar Autumn: Haristar, Thallistar, Arristar Below is a list of the various important days in the Lhomarrian year, and what events happen on those days. Haristar 1st (Lhomarrian New Year): This is the first day of the Lhomarrian new year. On this day no work is done, and many families throughout the empire will gather together at each other's houses for the afternoon for feasting, singing, and other festivities. In the evening, local talented people put on song and dance shows, and travelling bards sing songs of epic tales. Haristar 4th (First Day of Autumn): This day is recognized throughout Selhomarr as the first day of autumn. The leaves have begun to change colour on some of the trees, and the harvest is almost complete. Druidic circles all over Selhomarr perform their autumn ceremonies for all to see Thallistar 4th (The Battle of Pirolos): On this day everyone in Sepirolos observes one hour of silent contemplation about the battle that destroyed the colony of Xerothnyi forever, in BC 7024, and the roles their ancestors played in the battle. Flowers are picked from the fields and laid in a great wreath in the town square, which is then burned at nightfall, to commemorate the passing of the dead. Elsewhere in the empire, people observe the hour of contemplation, but do not perform any other acts of commemoration. Military units put on parades to salute the fallen. Thallistar 11th (End of Harvest): Although the actual ending of the harvest varies year by year, most Lhomarrians have chosen this day to mark its official ending. In the evening, country folk sing and dance, and a great feast is shared by all - sometimes an entire village will set up a large row of tables and feast together. All money owing on the previous year's taxes is also due on this day. Livestock is often gathered on this day in southern regions for herding into winter shelters. Thallistar 22nd (Emperor Tamaris' birthday): Today is the current emperor's birthday. According to tradition, the ruler must, on his or her birthday, give a voucher to every poor person in Calimnis, redeemable for a healthy supper at any eating establishment in the city. This is paid for out of the ruler's pocket, and the princes often do the same thing in their own provinces on their birthdays. This forces the ruler to come into contact with the least fortunate, and to remind him or her of a ruler's duties towards all citizens, no matter what their social station might be. In the evening, the ruler is treated to entertainment from the most talented actors and bards in the empire. Arristar 3rd (Battle of Pelenzor): Soldiers hold parades on this day to mark the anniversary of the Battle of Pelenzor, in which Lhomarr and its allies were routed in BC 7027. It was also in this battle that Brell, the legendary general of the Lhomarrian armies, was killed. After the ceremonies commemorating the battle are over, soldiers recite the life story of Brell. Arristar 14th (Beginning of the Wandering): Today marks the first day of the Wandering, when all youths who have turned 18 in the previous year must embark on a year long trek to find themselves. They are forbidden from returning home until the year is over, and must prove that they have learned something of the world, of others, and themselves. After a great breakfast and private celebrations with families, the youths fill their backpacks and leave home by midday. Arristar 15th (Ending of the Wandering): Those youths who started their Wandering the previous year come home by the end of this day. They will be welcomed as adults, having proven themselves as independent members of society. After being welcomed by their families, they are treated to two whole days of feasts, celebrations, and opportunities to share their experiences. From this day forth, they are officially citizens of Selhomarr, with all the rights and privileges of that station. Meneltar 1st (First Day of Winter): According to Lhomarrians, today is the first day of winter. The leaves have mostly fallen, and the harvests have been completed. Meneltar 23rd (Discovery of Prys): On this day sages and bards commemorate to discovery of Prys, which is now the Vulture Peninsula, around BC 8600. Details of the voyage of discovery are recounted. Yhemtar 18th (The Sinking): This day marks the anniversary of the sinking of Old Lhomarr. Sages and bards recount the last great battles of the war against the Carnifex, and rail against the wickedness of the Outer Beings for destroying the Old World. The ruler leads a remembrance ceremony at the Great Temple of Xeron in Calmnis, and reads off a list of the greatest heroes of those days. This day is a very mournful one. Yhemtar 19th (The Homecoming): This day marks the beginning of the Lhomarrians' time in the Hollow World. Bards and sages tell the Tale of the Homecoming, an epic poem which takes hours to recite, and details the war with the Carnifex, the sinking of Old Lhomarr, and the founding of Selhomarr. Many people give thanks on this day for their prosperity, and set aside a portion of their meals for those less fortunate than themselves. Saklatar 15th (Winter's Bane): In the southern regions of Selhomarr, where the climate is more severe and the winters less forgiving, people break free of winter gloom for the day and celebrate the coming spring. Hot drinks are shared by all, and many families go outside to experience nature's beauty in winter, sometimes aided by local druids. Gelmintar 1st (First Day of Spring): Today marks the first day of spring, though the more southern portions of Selhomarr will see snow for several weeks yet. Many people celebrate the warming temperatures and sprouting leaves with dances and feasts, and this day is believed by many to be an especially lucky one for marriage, such that many wed on this day. Priests of Xeron and the various druidic circles throughout the empire mark the occasion with ceremonies. Gelmintar 12th (Discovery of Xerothnyi): This day marks the commemoration of the discovery of the land that became Xerothnyi, now known as the Isle of Cestia, around BC 8600. Accounts of the great voyage are recited, and bards sing about the difficulties of the journey, and the wonders of the discovery. Gelmintar 18th (Battle of Okhtor Pass): Soldiers go on parade throughout the empire to celebrate the heroism of those who fought in the legendary Battle of Okhtor Pass, in BC 7025. Surviving accounts of the battles that day are read out, and spirits of those who survived the battle are thanked by priests of Xeron through offerings of food and drink. Brethitar 13th (The Sowing): This day is chosen by many Lhomarrian farmers to begin preparations for this year's planting. Seeds are purchased or taken out of storage, and fields are tilled. Animals are also let out into pasture at this time in southern regions. Dilmuntar 1st (First Day of Summer): Today is officially the first day of summer in Selhomarr. The sowing of the crops is well under way, and the plants are already in their full glory. Many druidic circles throughout the land celebrate the changing of the seasons. Rostar 14th (Midsummer's Festival): During the evening of this day, people all over Selhomarr celebrate the high point of summer with feasts, dancing, singing, and the telling of tall tales. It is a time of joy, to celebrate life, for winter is not far off. Gallotar 27th (Tax Assessment Day): On this day the ruler's taxmen go throughout the empire and visit every citizen, no matter what their social position. Each household is required to present documents attesting to how much money was made that year, and the taxmen calculate how much is owed in that amount, and how much property tax should be paid. Gallotar 28th (End of the Lhomarrian Year): On this day people all across the empire celebrate the ending of the old year, and the coming of the new one. At feasts during the evening, people recount funny anecdotes of the year's happenings, and others make resolutions for the coming year. The celebrations carry on into the night, in time for the new year to be ushered in by the revellers. stan http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 22:58:15 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals In a message dated 98-04-24 18:35:54 EDT, JamugaKhan@aol.com writes: >According to GAZ 3 Jaggar IS the Star Dragon! AAccording to the Dragonlord trilogy some centuries ago Thelwynn was the Star Dragon. >According to PWA'S and GKOM Jaggar IS NOT the Star Dragon! There is an article in a back issue of Dragon magazine that explains these apparent contradictions. Apparently when Jaggar became a fifth circle Dracologist he figured out what was really going on and agreed to step down as the Star Dragon in exchange for friendlier relations with the dragon Immortals. This would mean that Thelvyn was either restored to power as the Star Dragon or destroyed by an earlier Lawful Dracologist of the fifth circle. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 12:59:53 +1000 From: shawn@leme.anu.edu.au (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Empire of Selhomarr: What Everyone Knows About the Lhomarrians What Everyone Knows About the Lhomarrians: A Krugel orc to his sons: "You think yer tough, Grikk? Well, you just wait, 'cuz one day the Lhomarrians'll be back from over the sea! Yep, it was quite some time ago that they came, real quick-like, too. They was comin' over the waves in their long boats, an' they decided to land on the shores over there. "Was I there?!? Shaddup Urk, ya stoopid whelp!! One more smart remark like that an' I'll make you wish you was in the Lhomarrians' hands! It was hundreds of years ago, not long after we came to this new world. "Well, them Lhomarrians, they was comin' outta their ships to get some food - - must've been at sea for a long time. That's one way we know they ain't smart - no one with brains leaves dry land, it's too dangerous out there! Goin' by sea's also a stoopid way to attack someone - 'cuz you can see where they're comin' from a long way off, but anyways... "So they was scroungin' around for somethin' to eat, an' one of my ancestors, Hurggrik One- Hand, saw his chance an' set up an ambush with two hundred warriors to get 'em if they came too close. So them stoopid Lhomarrians did, an' we whupped 'em good - collected twelve scalps that day. 'Course, over half of us got wiped out, an' old Hurggrik with 'em, but we still got what them wimpy folk call a "moral victory" - we showed 'em who owns this land - right boys? They may have sharp little swords and good armour, but we're orcs! "Am I afraid of 'em? Nah! I could kill five of 'em, easy! With one hand tied behind my back! What? How many Lhomarrians were at the battle? I dunno, about thirty or forty, according to legend, what's your point?" Yorl Agmundsson, to his fellow reavers before landing at a Lhomarrian port for a night's work: "Get ready, men! In a few minutes we land at Sepirolos to get some booty. We've been lucky to make it this far already - I'm surprised their patrols haven't found us! We should've been caught and chased away miles back! Their loss... "Just a few words of wisdom from someone who's done this before. The Lhomarrians are unlike any other people you'll meet on this world. For one thing, they're half decent sailors. They know how to build a good boat, and how to use it well. Some say they've been here for a very long time - longer than we've been here, I'm sure. Maybe that has something to do with it. "Another thing. Never ever let them get you into a pitched battle! You'll lose. They may be weak city folk, and they may not use steel or iron in their weapons, but they use their bronze to good effect! If they do surround you, surrender. That's why they're so weak, they have too much compassion for a fallen enemy - they won't even enslave you, either - you'd practically be a guest! Just wait and eventually you'll be ransomed for some trinket we relieved them of some time ago - and then you'll be free to loot them again! Not too bright if you ask me. "They may be weak, they may be soft, but they can fight and sail, and their towns have good plunder for the taking. For that we respect them as a people. That still doesn't save them, though. Alright, men! Beach this craft and let's earn our living!" Aurius the diplomat, to a longtime friend: "One thing you'll learn soon enough if you ever go to Selhomarr is that the Lhomarrians are very single- minded, and slightly intolerant. They may be nice, but never, ever try to discuss theology with them. They believe in no Immortals but their own beloved "Xeron" - a faker if you ask me. They attribute everything to him, they obey his every wish, as interpreted through his priests. They are so convinced of their own closeness to this "Xeron" that they are quite condescending to others - they never mean to be cruel, mind you, they just consider all other cultures to be like children. "Still, for all that they have a beautiful country. Paved roads go everywhere, great forests are tended by druids, and everything is so pristine. It's too perfect, if you ask me. Don't get me wrong, they're nice people, but they're so...strange - they must be hiding something, but I can't put my finger on it. I wouldn't trust them too much if I were you, I'm sure they want something from us. "What really makes me suspicious is that, if they have been here as long they claim - several thousand years - why haven't they tried to conquer us all? We should be seeing Lhomarrian cities everywhere. No, I definitely think they're up to something, all right, the incompetent ruler and his priests. Still, you can never shake the feeling that the Lhomarrians are nice, they're so open and friendly, they want to learn everything about you. I think the Immortals put them on that isolated continent for a reason - - to protect us. "Another thing is their political system. Their emperor, while hereditary, obtains advice from ten regional princes, who really have more power than he does, and the druids and priests. They dangle him like a puppet on strings, telling him what to think, what to say, what to do. It's sinister, if you ask me. "Beyond this, however, they are nice. Remember that famine three years ago? If it weren't for the Lhomarrians sending us their surplus grain and fish, many would have starved. We must be grateful for them for that. They've Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 23:02:55 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #249 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com done lots of things for us, they like us, they are interested in us - but it's so suspicious. If they are so powerful, why don't they take our side in any disputes? Just what are they up to? Even during my time there, I could never find out..." stan http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 13:00:41 +1000 From: shawn@leme.anu.edu.au (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Empire of Selhomarr: Geographic and Biological Overview Geographic and Biological Overview: This section will discuss the geographic layout of Selhomarr, and identify the major regions of the empire, and what one might find there. The Layout of Selhomarr: Selhomarr is a large land, taking up fully one-third of the landmass of the continent of Suridal. It is largely centred around the Bay of Lokam, which is the largest body of water on the continent. Selhomarr is not a contiguous nation - that is, it is not one large landmass. It is in fact broken up into three sections, each separated by part of the Bay of Lokam. Ships regularly ply the waters here, though, effectively eliminating any division that might otherwise exist. The largest portion of Selhomarr is also the southernmost. It ranges along the southern shores of the Bay of Lokam, including the Tylierian Peninsula, which reaches into the bay itself. From here, it reaches due south, to the very foothills of the Lhomarrian Range, which runs along the "southeastern" coast of Suridal. It also encompasses part of the Forest of Garithor, to the "southeast", the Plains of Aymira near the coast, and large portions of the Ferennis and Disarna rivers, and the Rethelnis Forest in between - also in the south - along with a piece of the Bogs of Disania. The fabled Great Forest of Marinnir, with its great oaks and Dillianoras, dominates the Tylierian Peninsula, and further south, just "west" of the capital city of Calimnis (number one on the map), lies Brell's Wood. Between Brell's Wood and the coastal Plains of Aymira runs the ore-rich Sorathi Hills. The vast majority of this region is clear land, however, about half of it tilled. The second largest portion lies to the north of the Bay of Lokam, and does not approach the Kordithos Mountains to the north very closely. It contains large tracts of the Forest of Veroxith to the "east" and the Lorethii Forest to the "west" - a large portion of which is in the Ilarnnian autonomous region. The northermost portion of this region reaches to the area around the town of Sepirolos (number 12 on the map), and contains most of the Bay of Xerothnyi. Again, large portions of this region are comprised of clear land, about half of which is also tilled. The third, and smallest, portion lies on the "eastern" shores of the Bay of Lokam. Of all areas of Selhomarr, this is the least settled region. The majority of it is dominated by a portion of the Korvoris Forest, a great forest running north-south along the continent, in the shadow of the Lhomarrian Range. The only cultivated region lies on the tiny Prexirian Peninsula, upon which the city of Annurios is built. Vegetation and Topography: In terms of vegetation, Selhomarr is a rich land. Venturing north from the Lhomarrian range, a traveller would pass through hardy mixed coniferous and deciduous forests of pines, maples, birch, and evergreens. Going further north, and down into the lowlands towards the coast, these trees would give way to more deciduous forests, with great oaks, maples, poplars, and birches. Such trees are also common in the Rethelnis Forest, as well as the Garithor Forest. As well, one would also notice the development of grasslands, much overshadowed by the towering trees. Journeying further north, the trees thin out almost entirely, save for a few thickets here and there, and Brell's Wood. Here, clear land and plains dominate, though a great stand of oak trees lie to the "east", within the section of the Forest of Garithor that lies within Selhomarr. By this point the grasslands are tall and vibrant, no longer overshadowed by the trees. One would also see farms and villages dotting the countryside. Venturing further north, one would begin to see the Bay of Lokam on the horizon, as this land is quite flat, and runs straight to the water with few interruptions. From this point, also, one would notice the population density increasing, as hamlets give way to towns, and ultimately to cities along the coast. This area is also where the Ferennis and Disarna rivers merge, and become the powerful Calimnissian Flow, which swiftly moves northwards to the Bay. Further "west" of here, near the Bay of Lokam, we would also see the Sorathi Hills, the only rise between Brell's Wood and the coast - the remainder of the land taken up by the Plains of Aymira. North of the coast, we see the deep waters of the Bay of Lokam, broken only by the great mass of the Tylierian Peninsula, in the centre of which the aforementioned Great Forest of Marinnir grows, bracketed by the Gorimnis Hills to the south, and the Amanis Hills to the north. The Great Forest is home to oaks of legendary height and girth, as well as the fabled Dillianora trees, whose white berries can sustain a traveller for days without having to eat or drink. Further north on the peninsula lie the Hills of Tremiros, but apart from this most of the land is flat and tilled, broken only by the occasional stand of oak, maple, and apple trees. Far to the "east", isolated from the rest of Selhomarr, is the enclave of Annurios. Much of this tiny region is dominated by the hardy oaks, yews, and ironwoods of the monolithic Korvoris Forest. Leaving these lands and going further north, we cross more of the Bay of Lokam, to land on the northern shores. From the coast, the land gradually rises towards the north. The coastal regions are dominated by clear land, a large portion of which is tilled. This area is not heavily settled, though there are large population concentrations. The first vegetation apart from grasses and shrubs one would see would be the forests of Veroxith and Lorethii, both of which are deciduous, with great concentrations of fruit trees - which produce apples, pears, peaches, cherries, and even some oranges and lemons. Mixed with these fruit trees are magnolias, oaks, and fir trees. From this region the land rises still further - into the foothills of the towering Kordithos Mountains - but Selhomarr does not approach these heights. The only region of Selhomarr further north lies around the tiny Bay of Xerothnyi, near which the town of Sepirolos (number 12 on the map) stands. Here, the land is tilled and flat. Climate: Generally speaking, Selhomarr is a temperate land, with mild weather almost year-round. Toward the south, as altitudes increase, the winters are colder and longer. Here, one can expect an annual snowfall of about one or two feet in the winter, and rainfall of about 12 inches in the summer months. Toward the north, snowfall decreases and rainfall increases, as temperatures become warmer. In the lowlands, annual rainfalls can be as high as 40 inches during wet years - sufficient to allow rich harvests. Rainfall becomes heavier towards the coasts, where temperatures are cooler due to moderating effects from ocean currents from the south. The weather and temperature along the coast of the Sea of Rax are much like those we find in northern Europe, around England and the Netherlands. Along the coast of the Bay of Lokam itself, the temperatures are very mild, with warm, humid summers and cool, dry winters. Rainfall in this region becomes heavier towards the Sea of Rax and towards the "east". Areas such as the city of Annurios and the Tylierian Peninsula, which are more like Mediterranean rainforests. North of the Bay of Lokam the climate becomes warmer and more humid still, almost subtropical. In less humid regions one can find the fruit-growing areas, where the soil is more suitable for such things. Towards the coast, the temperature drops considerably, so that it is much like that of coastal regions further south - cool and damp. Despite its generally temperate nature, Selhomarr's climate can go to extremes. The entire continent is occasionally subjected to abnormally cold winters, as wind patterns sometimes change, bringing far more cold air north from the south pole. On a couple of occasions during Selhomarr's history, the entire nation has been hit with cold weather, even freezing the entire Bay of Lokam one winter. Fortunately, such events are extremely rare - only happening three times in the past 4,000 years - but when they do occur, the empire is devastated as crops are killed, and many go hungry. Likewise, great droughts and intense heat have hit the land, turning the rich central plains into a dustbowl. This happens about as often as extremely cold winters do, and is no less dangerous to the people. Animal Life: Just as Selhomarr is rich in vegetation, it is also filled with many species of animals. The forests are home to many forms of mundane and not-so-mundane life. Travellers can find everything there from foxes and squirrels to displacer beasts and owlbears. The plains are also teeming with life, with herds of aurochs and buffalo, ranging alongside rare species of giant rat (sort of like door mice). The swamps are filled with insects of all sorts (some of the giant variety), as well as isolated tribes of lizard men, who were here before the Lhomarrians came, and who still remain unknown to them. The hills and mountains are known to harbour griffons and hippogriffs, as well. Finally, the seas are filled with fish of all descriptions, ranging from trout and salmon in the rivers to sharks, dolphins, and sea serpents in the Bay of Lokam. There are a few dragons living in the region, mostly reds high up in the Lhomarrian Range, a handful of greens in the Forest of Gerethor, and blacks deep in the Bogs of Disania. These are mostly reclusive, and very rarely venture far into Selhomarr. Also present throughout the region are various sorts of undead, who, although not occupying any ecological niche, still are a factor in events in the wild. stan http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 13:01:50 +1000 From: shawn@leme.anu.edu.au (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Empire of Selhomarr: Lhomarrian Settlements Lhomarrian Settlements: This section will discuss the distribution of the Lhomarrian population, and the appearance and structure of their homes. Due to their long settlement on Suridal, most Lhomarrians live in cultivated, well-settled regions. Villages and towns literally dot the landscape, and the network of roads connecting them would look much like a spider's web from above. Despite this fact, however, there are still many open spaces free of settlement, as well as pristine woodlands. The majority of Selhomarr's population of about five million lives in such innumerable towns and villages, while around 628,000 people live in the capital and other large towns and cities. Most of the population (about 45%) are farmers or herdsmen, while another 30% are involved in fishing, and another 1% are miners. The remainder are politicians, shopkeepers, blacksmiths, soldiers, and other sorts of more urban tradespeople, who live in the cities. Most Lhomarrian houses are single-storey affairs, being built of stone and covered with plaster. Most often, the outside walls are covered with colourful murals and frescoes depicting heroic scenes or beautiful visions, or even telling a story. Even the smallest homes will have some such adornment - a home is just not a home without it, according to the Lhomarrians. As a result, the streets of any reasonably-sized settlement are virtually a riot of colour, as images of all sorts crowd each other on buildings. The roofs of buildings are also colourful, built as they are of baked clay tiles of various shades of red and brown. The average Lhomarrian would find settlements on the surface to be drab by comparison. The layout of the average Lhomarrian home is based upon the idea of a courtyard - all of the rooms open onto a pillared central room, which is often open to the sky at its centre - though there is often a means of covering the opening during storms. Most Lhomarrians decorate their interior walls by hanging family heirlooms on them, or by growing small plants in hanging planters, so that the leaves and stems grow to cover portions of them. The tiled stone floors are often covered with carpets, and brass lanterns often hang from the ceiling in each room. Lhomarrian furniture is almost always wooden, and functional in appearance, though many do sport the occasional decorative painting or carving on them. Great use is often made of tables and benches - they are present in almost every room of a house. In larger settlements, where space is at more of a premium, it is possible to find taller buildings - some up to three storeys high. Even with the greater height, many buildings have decorative images on their surfaces, with some of the tallest buildings being used to tell epic poems and tales using colourful pictures. These taller buildings often lack the central chamber common in single dwellings, though there is often a large room somewhere in the building where people may gather to talk or relax. In most cases, the ground floor houses a business of some sort, while the upper floors are occupied by the family of the business owner, or tenants, or both. The roads are also different in proper towns and cities. While all roads are paved in Selhomarr, they widen considerably in urban areas - sometimes wide enough to accommodate four horse-drawn wagons abreast. Often, trees are planted along the middle of the road. One feature that remains constant in almost every settlement is the temple of Xeron. In the centre of each urban area, there will be a central intersection, in the middle of which a temple to Xeron is built. Unlike the other buildings, their walls are unadorned, built of the purest quartz - seeming to glow in their own right. The interiors are truly inspiring, with graceful pillars and statues, and rows of polished wooden benches upon which the devoted may pray. stan http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 13:02:41 +1000 From: shawn@leme.anu.edu.au (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Empire of Selhomarr: Notes on Various Lhomarrian Cities Notes on Various Lhomarrian Cities: The information below will detail the various settlements numbered on the colour map of the empire of Selhomarr. Each settlement will be detailed in terms of its population, date of founding, and notable features. These descriptions are not intended to be exhaustive; rather, they should provide a general impression of what goes on in the place. The various towns and cities are coded with numbers, which match those on the map of Selhomarr. 1. Calimnis (pop. 350,000 - 96% Lhomarrian, 4% Ilarnnian): This is the capital city of the empire of Selhomarr, founded in BC 7015. It is a large, walled city, with many stone quays opening onto the Bay of Lokam, just to the north, and many more canals worming their way around the city itself. It is a city of great tree-lined boulevards, market squares, and the inspiring Imperial Palace. Another notable feature here is the Great School of Arts and Magic, where all aspiring mages and artists come to study with the masters, and hope to make a name for themselves. Within its walls, the city's streets are lined with ancient two and three-storey buildings, which, due to their quality and materials, still stand to this day. The streets themselves are filled with people form all over the empire, and a visitor will be able to hear almost every known dialect of Lhomarrian. Outside the city walls sits the ancient town of Pergamnos itself, now little more than a suburb of the capital. It is this town which was whisked by the Immortals from old Lhomarr to the Hollow World. Another notable site outside the city walls is the 200 acre Imperial Grove, where the druid emissary to the emperor lives, and cares for the animal and plant life there. Visitors to the city will find much to see and do - what with a city full of history and inspiring architecture, and political intrigue ... 2. Garith (pop. 22,000 - 100% Lhomarrian): This large town, the southernmost large settlement in Selhomarr, lies about 20 miles "east" of the Ferennis river, nestled by the Forest of Garithor. It was founded in BC 6934 by a group of adventurous Lhomarrian settlers who wanted to escape the placidity of city life in the capital. To this day, it remains a refuge for many wealthy families wishing to escape the hustle and bustle of Calimnis for a few weeks, and enjoy the wilderness. Compared to the capital, Garith is indeed rustic. Although the streets are paved, there are few parks or public houses, though shops are in abundance. What is available is the open wilderness - from this town a person can hire a guide to show them the most magnificent sights the forest has to offer, from the breathtaking Haldassos Falls (measuring 400 feet in height, with rainbows dancing in the mist) to Nature's Palette, a rock wall where natural chemicals have exuded themselves over the centuries to create multi-coloured patterns. Many wealthy families also have their own retreats nestled in the forest, away from everyone else. These are often simple affairs, resembling a commoner's farmhouse. Visitors, unless interested in sightseeing, will have little to Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 23:02:55 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #249 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com do, though people living in the outlying regions will be troubled by the occasional griffon or owlbear. Garith is also the regional capital of the province of Ardeth (the southernmost and least-populated in the empire), and thus is home to one of the regional princes, Aymir of Garith. Aside from this, Garith is a hub for mining and logging activities. 3. Olathis (pop. 27,000 - 98% Lhomarrian, 2% Ilarnnian): A peaceful port town, Olathis was founded in BC 6882 by the great philanthropist, Prince Caltir of Pergamnos, who used his own fortune to build a great mansion to house 150 children orphaned by freak storms the previous year. As such, a 40 foot tall granite statue of this man now stands in the town square in his honour. Such is his fame that even today, people wishing good fortune make pilgrimages to this statue. Aside from this, the town is known for its good fishing, and its reputation as an export area for goods made in nearby villages. The people here are generally content, living out their lives in relative peace - running their shops, and bringing in their catches from the Bay of Thass. Recently, however, the local peace has been shattered on occasion by rumours of sea monsters rising out of the Bay and attacking nearby fishing villages, often under the shadow of flying continents. All that is known is that, when under the shadow of a flying continent, ships at sea tend to disappear, and homes on the coast tend to get destroyed. What is actually happening is that nearby there is a community of shark-kin, whose hunting grounds are increasingly threatened by the Lhomarrians. They are attacking in retaliation, and will continue to do so unless something is done. Olathis is the capital of the province of Regelnis, whose current ruler is Prince Caltir XXVI of Olathis. 4. Belothis (pop. 24,000 - 95% Lhomarrian, 5% Ilarnnian): This fishing, farming, and textiles centre sits on the northernmost point of the Ilannir Peninsula. It was founded in BC 6350 by religious dissidents who disagreed with the teachings of the priesthood of Xeron. In fact, these people secretly worshipped Thanatos, who had a small following among Lhomarrians even on the surface world in ancient times - a fact which only the most senior clerics know. Currently, there are several temples of Thanatos located in the sewers beneath the town, whose meetings are always held in secret. Overall, about 15% of the town's populace worships this Immortal. The clerics of Thanatos are lying low for the moment, but are busy researching prayers that will invoke chaos and destruction, as well as give them enough power to seize control of the empire. They are also carrying out numerous experiments on new forms of undead, unsuccessful thus far. This town is also a regional capital, for the province of Varannis, and is home to Prince Hethion of Belothis - secretly a cleric of Thanatos. 5. Annurios (pop. 38,000 - 91% Lhomarrian, 9% Ilarnnian): This city was founded in BC 6457, as the "easternmost" outpost of Lhomarrian civilization. The city, famous for its School of Forestry - where all those hoping to become foresters are trained - is also home to one of the most powerful druidic circles. Here, the druids of the Kovoris Forest tend the local flora and fauna, and ensure the woodcutters do not take too much wood. The foresters range far and wide, even outside the borders of Selhomarr, in pursuit of rogue animals and monsters, such as green dragons, who have attacked the city in the past. The city and its surrounding region is also a full province in its own right. The resident prince is named Balathor, and he rules the province of Annurios with an even hand. Apart from the occasional monster or rampaging animal, life is quiet here. Fishing is good, the soils are rich, and the city is prosperous, and the people want it to stay that way. 6. Rethnaris (pop. 18,900 - 67% Lhomarrian, 33% Ilarnnian): This town was originally founded in BC 6290 by Lhomarrian settlers wishing to settle new land north of the Bay of Lokam. The original town was in fact a city, having a population of about 36,000. In BC 6115, a flight of red dragons descended from the Kordithos Mountains, in response to the theft of some eggs by some adventurous Lhomarrians. The entire city was destroyed during the three weeks of attacks, and only 743 people lived through the ordeal. It was not rebuilt until BC 5802, when people were sure that the region was safe. It is settled mainly by people descended from Xerothnyian Lhomarrians, and a substantial number of Ilarnnians. The only notable features here are the Imperial Naval Academy, where Lhomarrian naval officers are trained, and the palace of Prince Jurannir of Rethnaris, regional prince of the province of Sexerothnyi, of which Rethnaris is the capital. Overall, this is a quiet town, though red dragons are sighted occasionally ... 7. Myiad (pop. 14,400 - 87% Lhomarrian, 13% Ilarnnian): This quiet fishing and farming town was founded in BC 5421. Apart from its friendly shops and peaceful setting, what draws people here are the inspiring debates that can be heard daily in the front courtyard of the Imperial Guild of Philosophers and Scholars - covering all subjects from the nature of humans to the true history of the world. It is also here that the renowned scholar, Gallos the Aged, gives his public lectures on various subjects to any who will listen. 8. Prymenon (pop. 12,000 - 92% Lhomarrian, 8% Ilarnnian): This town, founded in BC 6739 by descendants of Lhomarrian residents of Prys, is in the region of the Great Forest of Marinnir, and the foresters and druids who care for it. Also, this town is the centre of all druidic knowledge. It is here that visitors can seek knowledge in the Great Library, where scribes have painstakingly noted down the accumulated lore of the druids. It is also here where the coveted vials of Dillianora berry essence are made, whose liquid contents replicate the effects of eating a handful of the berries themselves - the imbiber will not require any food or drink for the next 24 hours - but with the advantage of being able to keep the mixture indefinitely, for the berries rot within days of being picked. Aside from this, there are occasional troubles with wild animals, but on the whole this is a very peaceful, relaxing place. This town is also the location of the Imperial School of Foresters, where would-be foresters come to test themselves, and learn the secrets of this trade. 9. Xirenyos (pop. 15,200 - 100% Lhomarrian): Founded in BC 4230 on the northern reaches of the Tylierian Peninsula, Xirenyos is a medium-sized fishing and mining town. The metals extracted here are gold, silver, copper, tin, and some platinum. Iron ore deposits are also here, but, due to the Spell of Preservation, they are not used to their full potential. Some people do use iron to an extent, mainly for making nails and hinges for doors, but this is about it, and the practice is not common. The people who started using iron on a large scale died with the sinking of Lhomarr long ago, so the culture remains in the Late Bronze Age. Those who are not employed mining or fishing live off of land, as elsewhere, though the soils around the Amanis and Tremiros Hills are quite poor. Some enterprising individuals have tried to start up vineyards, to some degree of success, but the vintages here are not in the same league as those produced by the Ilarnnians further north. Overall, this is a peaceful town, with no pretensions towards being anything else. Xirenyos is the capital of the province of Atlissini, and Prince Galen of Xirenyos has his residence here. 10. Prenos (pop. 9,800 - 100% Lhomarrian): Positioned on a narrow abutment into the Bay of Lokam, Prenos is one of the newest larger settlements in Selhomarr, having been founded in BC 2370. This town subsists almost entirely on fishing; for the soils here are exceedingly poor, and the climate is so cool and damp that nothing apart from thorny bushes and a few hardy trees and grasses can grow here. The people themselves are descended from former Lhomarrian colonists living in the old city of Erkalion, on the Vulcanian Peninsula on the surface world. Through the millennia, they kept to themselves, travelling between towns until they found a place most like their old home, and far enough away form everyone else. They are a very reclusive lot - they will not open up to strangers, even if they have been living in town for over 10 years. No one ever leaves town willingly, and few newcomers settle here. The reason for this reclusiveness is that these people harbour an active sect of worshippers of the Outer Beings. Since the time of their coming to the Hollow World, they have been constantly migrating - searching for a place that is sufficiently isolated so that they can worship in peace. Those who do not share this religion protect their fellows out of duty towards a fellow descendant of Erkalion - a feeling that has been strengthened by the Spell of Preservation, such that this town is actually a culture within a culture. Should these people be discovered, they would be put to death. 11. Dirdassos (pop. 36,000 - 98% Ilarnnian, 2% Lhomarrian): This small city, established in BC 6946, is the administrative centre of the Ilarnnian Autonomous Region, a semi-independent homeland for the Ilarnnian people. This region is not a province, and so does not have a regional prince. Rather, it is ruled by an elected council of elders, who run for 10-year terms by popular vote. Visitors will notice that they are in a distinct region, as the language, culture, architecture, and way of life are all different here. The streets are narrower and quieter, the buildings are taller and less ornamented, and everything has a more subdued atmosphere to it. There are several notable features to this city, not the least of which is the Legislature, where the council sits daily and debates the day's business. Other important features are the Great School of Diplomacy, where promising future diplomats (many of whom are Ilarnnian) are given rigorous training in understanding the cultures of the Hollow World, and instruction in the theory of diplomacy; and the University of Dirdassos, where one can gain the benefits of a classical education combined with instruction in the basics of magic. Unlike Calimnis, Dirdassos does not have much political intrigue, primarily because there is very little division of authority beyond the council of elders. Thus, there is no room for opposing interests to jockey for power. Overall, it is a much quieter city than its Lhomarrian counterpart, a testament to the character of the Ilarnnians. Despite this, there is a large thieves' guild in the city, as well as a handful of Thanatos worshippers, working behind the scenes to influence the affairs of the region. Also, there is a small but determined band of adventuresome Ilarnnians dedicated to severing all ties with Selhomarr, and declaring an independent state. 12. Sepirolos (pop. 16,000 - 80% Lhomarrian, 17% Ilarnnian, 3% Antalian): This average- sized town, founded in BC 4921 by Lhomarrians descended from colonists of Xerothnyi, was named in honour of the port of Pirolos, which, in BC 7024, fell to the Carnifex hordes after vicious house-to-house fighting. It was the last Lhomarrian settlement in the colony of Xerothnyi to fall. The people here make their living fishing and farming. Life is hard, but the townspeople here know how to make the best of it. Occasionally, Sepirolos has been raided by Antalians, who will sometimes make the perilous crossing to Selhomarr in search of great plunder. The one thing that sets this town apart from all others is that it has a resident Antialian population. In AC 357, a large fleet of Antalian raiders landed at Sepirolos, but were routed by the town's defenders. A considerable number of raiders were captured, and found, during their time here, that they liked the environment, the rugged southern seas, and the people here. The Immortals noticed this, and decided to let this change happen, as it would make this town special, and much more interesting to watch. Since then, a small Antalian community has grown up here, whose members retain their language and much of their culture, but have also adopted the dress, language, and part of the outlook of the Lhomarrians, thus creating a people between the two cultures. Sepirolos is the capital of the northern province of Tynerii, and is administered by Prince Olaf of Tynerii, whose name, large stature, and blond-haired, blue-eyed appearance belie his strong Antalian heritage. 13. Nevora (pop. 11,600 - 94% Lhomarrian, 6% Ilarnnian): Nevora is a relatively peaceful town, founded in BC 6224, that subsists off of fishing and farming, located on the shores of the Sea of Rax. The shores here are gentle and sandy, which not only allows fishermen to leave and return without fear of shipwrecking themselves; Antalians have also found these shores ideal for landing their ships for a raid. This town has been subjected to more raids than any other port in Selhomarr, averaging one large raid every 20 to 30 years, and numerous skirmishes at sea. When they do come here, the Antalians prefer to take the trading goods, and gems and jewellery here, and failing this the large stores of food, as well as the occasional slave. Mainly, they have found that this town is just easy pickings, with a high payback considering the effort expended in coming here. The general mood of the town is of reasonable contentedness, but frustration over the government's inability to completely hold off the Antalians. No matter how many patrols sail the seas, some raiders ultimately get through and wreak havoc. 14. Heressina (pop. 28,000 - 100% Lhomarrian): This town was founded in BC 6192 by enterprising miners seeking new finds from which to profit. Soon enough, the nearby Gorimnis Hills yielded rich veins of silver, copper, and tin - the last two metals being the ingredients for bronze. Also, rich veins of diamonds and emeralds were found, which soon fell into the hands of skilled jewellers, who set up shop in the growing town. Today, Heressina is the main metal- and gem-processing centre in Selhomarr, where the best weaponsmiths, jewellers, and gemcutters ply their trades. The finest weapons are those made in Heressina, as are the best gems and pieces of jewellery, such that owning anything of the sort made in this large town is considered something of a status symbol. As a result, this town has become very rich, and very competitive. In is not unheard of for jealous individuals to "remove" their competition by indirect means. Heressina is also the capital of the province of Soroth, and Prince Brell of Heressina has his residence here. 15. Ayrissom (pop. 13,000 - 98% Lhomarrian, 2% Ilarnnian): This quiet town was founded in BC 6057 by adventuresome Lhomarrian farmers seeking new land to till. Over time, a town gradually grew up in their midst, providing the comforts of urban life that they can take advantage of should they desire, but still be able to ignore. The soils of the Morinna Peninsula are very rich - so rich that, in a good year, two crops can be raised in one growing season. This, coupled with a milder climate than the surrounding region, makes this town a rather nice place. The nearby bays and rivers and also full of trout, pike and salmon; no one has ever gone hungry here. What distinguishes this town from the surrounding settlements is its Great Temple of Xeron, truly a masterpiece of architecture. Within its halls and chambers many people from miles around come to pray for a better harvest, health for their families, and to be healed. This temple also houses Xeron's Pool - it was built to house this phenomenon, though this fact has been long forgotten. The Pool lies in the central chamber of the Temple, and the faithful may come to bathe in its softly glowing blue waters in order to cure themselves of ailments and injuries, and also to cure madness. The Pool is in fact a collecting point for some of Ixion's power (sort of like a battery), where local clerics can tap the energy to boost their powers. The effect is that a cleric of Xeron may cast one spell per day at one level higher than his or her real level. As a result, this site is viewed as a place of miracles, where the priests wield the power of Xeron to carry out great acts. This town is also the capital of the province of Ilyoris, and its prince, Valinir, lives here. 16. Dedremii (pop. 31,000 - 96% Lhomarrian, 4% Ilarnnian): This city was originally founded in BC 5560 by Lhomarrians in search of fresher fields to till and bountiful seas to fish. Today, many of the inhabitants derive their wealth from exporting the resources of the city - from its rich crops to its bountiful catches, and to its valuables finds of silver, tin, and rubies in the nearby Sorathi Hills. This is the main port from which goods originating in "western" Selhomarr make their way to the outside world. Due to its wealth, and past troubles with Antalian raiders, considerable amounts of money have been invested in building an extensive series of defenses. The city is ringed by a great wall - even into the sea, where there is a single great gate allowing access to the ports - topped with towers upon which are a series of catapults and ballistae. The Great School of Navigators, the main centre of learning for those who would wish to learn how to safely travel the seas, is located in this city, as is the residence of Prince Aymir of Dedremii, governor of the province of Akalis, of which Dedremii is the capital. stan http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #249 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 23:06:32 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f X-UIDL: 893646600.004 From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #250 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com Status: RO mystara-digest Sunday, April 26 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 250 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - The Empire of Selhomarr: Currency and Trade [MYSTARA] - The Empire of Selhomarr: Lhomarrian Politics and Laws [MYSTARA] - The Empire of Selhomarr: Important NPCs ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 13:04:23 +1000 From: shawn@leme.anu.edu.au (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Empire of Selhomarr: Currency and Trade Currency and Trade: Coinage: As with many other nations, Selhomarr has its own currency and trading system. Lhomarrian currency consists entirely of coinage. Each coin is square in shape, with a small hole in the centre which can be used to hang numerous coins on a narrow wooden or metal rod. Each rod has the capacity to hold 20 coins of any denomination, and has a cover that can be attached at each end in order to secure the coins. Thus, a sum of 20 coins is called a "rod". This arrangement is used in order to make the storage of coins easier, since they can be stacked in this format. The coins themselves are made out of platinum, gold, silver, and copper. The unit of currency is called the alin, with the plural being alinni. A copper coin is one alin, a silver coin is 10 alinni, a gold coin is 100 alinni, and a platinum coin is 1000 alinni (platinum coins are extremely pure, such that one platinum alin coin is worth twice as much as a surface world platinum piece). The abbreviation for each coin is as follows: platinum alin=pa, gold alin=ga, silver alin=sa, copper alin=ca It should also be noted that the exchange rate, with the exception of platinum coins, matches those in the standard rules. In terms of equipment, housing, food, and weapon prices, the standard rules can be used, substituting alinni for surface coinage. Trade: Realizing that they are an isolated people, the Lhomarrians have always been eager to meet other cultures, and to trade with them. Also, as an isolated nation, the Lhomarrians realize that there are some goods - such as horses, and rare spices and herbs - that they cannot produce in a sufficient amount in order to meet local demand. As a result, Selhomarr trades its surplus production as exports in order to obtain those items it normally cannot obtain in large numbers. Selhomarr's primary exports are preserved fish, wood, worked leather, common spices, copper, tin, and silver. Currently, Selhomarr imports horses from the Jennites, fine metalwork and minerals from the Kogolor dwarves, sheep and rare wood from the Milenians, rare spices from the Nithians, the Tanagoro, and the Shahjapurans. Generally speaking, most of the participants in this southern trade are content with what they are getting out of this arrangement. Occasionally, disputes will arise over issues such as allegedly unfair trading practices, but usually, Selhomarr's diplomats have been able to handily deal with any suspicions concerning its behaviour. This does not stop other nations from being suspicious of the Lhomarrians in general, not least because they are far away from everyone else, and relatively few outsiders have visited their realm. Taxation: As with other cultures, the Lhomarrians also have a system of taxation. Towards the end of each year, all citizens are assessed according to how much they earned during the year, and by the value of their land. Usually, the rate is 25% of yearly earnings, and 10% of total land value. Most citizens have no problems with taxes, as most can see where their money is being spent - on building and maintaining public roads and buildings, for example. stan http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 13:05:10 +1000 From: shawn@leme.anu.edu.au (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Empire of Selhomarr: Lhomarrian Politics and Laws Lhomarrian Politics and Laws: The Lhomarrian people base their political state, and their laws, upon thousands of years of precedents, edicts, and agreements. At the very base of their body politic is the Codex of Tylios, named after the young emperor who, after his tyrannical father, Galhossian, was executed following a civil war, signed the new political arrangement into law. It was signed in BC 8377 - the original copy of this document still in existence, safe in the vault of the Imperial Palace in Calimnis. The Codex explicitly delegated all of the executive powers of the state between the emperor and the ten regional princes. This was done both to restrain future emperors from taking total control, and to eliminate confusion that could result in another civil war. Before the rise of Galhossian, there was an unspoken agreement, evolved over the centuries, between these two executive bodies. The princes were largely responsible for domestic affairs, while the emperor (or empress) saw to external affairs of state, and reigned as the symbolic head of government. This arrangement was re- asserted, but this time on paper, where no one could question it. As the centuries passed, and new areas of political authority were needed, the Codex has been consulted in order to find out which executive body should have jurisdiction. As it stands right now, the ten regional princes have control over the powers of tax collection, domestic production of trading goods, the training and command of soldiers, and administering justice. The emperor has control over conducting relations with outside nations, setting the tax rate, assenting to new legislation, providing last appeal in legal cases, declaring war, approving the appointment of public officials, raising people to the nobility, administering the capital city through a mayor, and drafting legislation. In the case of the drafting of legislation, a panel of experts is normally summoned by the emperor to act upon his ideas, usually combined with suggestions from the princes. As mentioned above, however, the ruler may also draft his or her own legislation - though this is rare. The Princes and Other Nobles: Although the princes have responsibility for many domestic issues, functionaries and bureaucrats often do most of the work of administering policies and laws. For the average prince, most of the day is taken up by touring the province and talking with the commoners - and providing a travelling court of law. When this is not going on, a prince is often meeting with the emperor, or other princes, in order to decide on major issues of the day; or supervising soldiers or leading them in training exercises. Basically, the princes' role is to ensure that all is quiet on the domestic front, while the ruler concerns him or herself with the affairs of state. As with other members of nobility, the princes derive their power from their bloodlines - from those men who were chosen around BC 8600 by emperor Santhalis for their bravery and loyalty to be his personal assistants, who would rule in his stead in the countryside. Along with the princes and their families, there are other nobles in Selhomarr. As mentioned above, the ruler has the power to appoint commoners to the nobility. This is invariably to the rank of "Lord" or "Lady", and the title conferred in hereditary. Such an event is very rare, and is often the occasion for public celebration. The main reason why this is done is to recognize the great service an individual has done for Selhomarr, or to the ruler him or herself. This practice also helps the regional princes, as this provides new noble families for their children to marry into. As it stands right now, there are about 200 lords and ladies scattered across the nation. Unlike the princes, the lords and ladies have no special powers under the Codex, and are considered common citizens, aside from the fact that they are titled and may marry into a prince's family. A prince is, however, free to delegate authority to a lord or lady, subject to the ruler's approval. Currently, many lords and ladies are given the authority to act as judges in legal cases, where the prince in question does not have the time to do so. These minor nobles do have one important responsibility, though. In times of war, they are required to assist the prince in assembling the military forces of the province, as well as provide suitable commanders, if none are otherwise available from among the professional soldiers. The Political System: With this information in mind, one can easily classify the nation of Selhomarr as a federal state, with a constitutional monarch at its head. The empire is divided into ten provinces, each ruled by a prince, who in turn delegates part of his authority to local lords and ladies, but both directly deal with the populace. The capital city, Calimnis, is directly ruled by the emperor or empress through the mayor. The only region that is outside this structure is the Ilarnnian Autonomous Region, which has all the trappings of an independent state without statehood. All portions of the empire, including the Ilarnnian region, share common foreign and trade policies, a common currency, a common army and navy, and a common legal system. The Lhomarrian Legal System: As mentioned earlier, the Lhomarrians political and legal system is based largely upon precedent. In any legal case, attempts are always made to find records of a similar case, in order to provide a better perspective on how judgement should be carried out, if the recorded sentence in the precedent was deemed fair by both prosecution and defence. This does not mean that there are no hearings in court, or testimony; only that guidelines are always sought. Where this is not possible, then extra care is taken, as what is decided at that case may become tomorrow's precedent. In general, the Lhomarrian legal system classifies people according to different social classes, each having the same basic rights. At the lowest level are the citizens, who may own property, live wherever they wish, and keep the money they earn - less the amount taken in taxes. Being a citizen also entitles a person to vote for the administrators of their place of residence - often mayors or reeves. Both men and women can be citizens. Apart from this, though, there is no political franchise per se. Citizens also have a few fundamental freedoms - namely, the freedoms of expression, association, and privacy. These freedoms are, however, subject to the will of the ruler, and may be suspended when the need arises. Basically, citizens may say, write, or think whatever they want, meet with whomever they choose for whatever reason, and may conduct their lives without fear of supervision. All of these are, of course, subject to reason - it is illegal to publicly express support for the Outer Beings, for example, or to meet with revolutionaries. Within the class of citizen are several gradations of prestige, defined by profession. Those involved in manual labour, such as farmers, fishermen, or miners, are at the bottom. Above them, in order of prestige, are smiths of various kinds, shopkeepers, soldiers, lawyers, scholars, politicians, explorers, and priests. One's position on this scale determines how the public perceives that person - how sophisticated they are, their potential to advance themselves, how much they are respected, etc.; it does not confer any extra powers. Above the citizens are the lords and ladies, as mentioned earlier. They do not have any extra powers, apart from those delegated from a prince. Above these nobles are the princes, whose powers, rights, and duties have been discussed earlier. Finally, at the top the scale of power is the ruler, whether it is an emperor or empress, the details of which have also been discussed earlier. Unlike many other cultures, slavery does not officially exist in Lhomarrian society. Those captured in war are detained in prisons, but are otherwise treated well. Falling into debt, however, leads one into a legal nether region, where the one who owes must forfeit their wealth and non-essential assets. If not enough money is raised in this manner to pay off the debt, then the debtor is required to perform work for the creditor, at a rate of repayment equivalent to the salary that would be otherwise paid out. Technically, this is indentured servitude, though the debtor is still considered a citizen under the law, and still retains all of his or her rights. Crime and Punishment: The Lhomarrian legal system is not very strict when compared with those of other societies. The table below summarizes what is considered illegal, and what one can expect in terms of punishment. All Lhomarrians are considered equal before the law, even the emperor. This means that there is no lenient set of punishments for nobles - in Selhomarr, the law is the law, period. Criminal Act Punishment Theft (1,000 alinni or less) Restitution of stolen property, 1 year in prison Theft (1,001 - 10,000 alinni)Restitution of stolen property, 5 years in prison Theft (over 10,000 alinni) Restitution of stolen property, 10 years in prison Publicly Denouncing Xeron Public Censure Publicly Denouncing the RulerPublic Censure Assault (non-lethal) 20 lashes Sexual Assault 50 lashes or 5 years in prison Attempting a Coup Exile or life in prison Manslaughter 75 lashes or 7 years in prison Murder Death by Hanging or Exile for Life Worshipping an Outer Being Death by Hanging Worshipping Thanatos Death by Hanging This system of punishment is followed throughout Selhomarr, even in the Ilarnnian Autonomous Region. While, to an outsider, the execution of a person for worshipping the Outer Beings may seem harsh at first, they only need to learn of the history of the Lhomarrians in order to understand why the punishment is so severe. The Lhomarrians and Ilarnnians are aware that the machinations of the Outer Beings ultimately brought them to the Hollow World, and, they believe, destroyed their old world. They fear that such an event could happen again, and they feel the Outer Beings are listening, waiting for worshippers to give them strength. As a result, there is no room in their societies for those who would venerate these Beings, who would bring ruin onto everyone. Political Groups: In any political system, various groups are formed of like-minded individuals who band together to advance their own views. Selhomarr is no exception, and the groups below are the ones that are the most active. Feel free to add your own groups to those listed. Each group is described in terms of their membership, who can join, what their essential beliefs are, and what they do in terms of activities. Fist of Xeron Members: Approximately 40,000. Who can join: Any Lhomarrian or Ilarnnian who worships Xeron. Cost is 50 alinni per year. Beliefs: The Fist of Xeron is a radical movement composed of Lhomarrians and Ilarnnians who have become alarmed at the profusion of "outside ideas" within Selhomarr. The primary objects of dislike are worshippers of "false gods" - such as those who worship Diulanna or other Immortals - but anyone who follows non- traditional ideas or philosophies will also be blacklisted by this group. Lhomarrians who follow "the wrong path" are insulted whenever encountered, and efforts are made to persuade people in positions of authority, and people on the street, to ostracize them. Members believe that only by following Lhomarrian traditions to the letter, and by embracing Lhomarrian culture, will the favour of Xeron be gained. There is no room for "foreign" religions or ideas. All in all, a xenophobic, conservative group, but relatively non-violent. Activities: Largely confined to haranguing people in the streets, insulting those more open to new ideas, and occasionally burning temples to other Immortals. Violence is discouraged. Order of the Homebound Members: Approximately 8,500. Who can join: Any citizen of Selhomarr who worships Xeron. Cost is 250 alinni per year. Beliefs: Members of the Order of the Homebound believe that certain principles of the teachings of the priests are flawed - that the realm on the outside of the Hollow World is the paradise of Xeron, and is reserved only for him and those he deems most virtuous. They believe that the "other side" is indeed a paradise, but that it is not closed to mortals; rather, Xeron has placed it like a prize, and only the purest people will survive the perilous journey to live with him in splendour. They hope to gain Xeron's favour by proving their mettle - by staging a great pilgrimage to Xeron's realm, where they will live for eternity. They see the priests' warnings merely as an effort to keep this great destiny out of the reach of the masses. The great pilgrimage will commence once 10,000 people have sworn the oaths of secrecy and loyalty. Activities: Most members discreetly seek out others who would be sympathetic to their cause. Meetings are clandestine and infrequent, and often concern progress reports on gathering supplies for the journey ahead. Should this group ever gain enough members, they would arrange to leave at a prearranged time, meeting in the southernmost region of the empire. From there they would sail south into the polar region. Any survivors would find themselves nowhere near any paradise, stuck in far southern Davania. Warmaidens Members: Approximately 87,000 Who can join: Women who have chosen fighting as a profession. Cost is 100 alinni per year. Beliefs: Members of the Warmaidens believe that women should also have the opportunity to serve the empire in the army or the navy, and not be forced to train themselves to a level where they will be accepted as having "proven themselves". The Warmaidens feel that too many aspiring warriors are put at needless risk by this outdated tradition, possibly robbing Selhomarr of tomorrow's top military leaders. To this end, they have established academies in the countryside where women may go to learn the arts of war, taught by veteran female soldiers. Despite the large membership base, and the growing number of such academies, demand still outstrips supply, such that many young women are still forced to go out on their own to get the training they need. Activities: Officially, the Warmaidens' activities are illegal, as only men are allowed to enlist in the army or navy and receive basic training. The military, religious, and political leaders realize, though, that the Warmaidens are providing a valuable service - that of providing professional soldiers. In recent minor battles with the Antalians, units comprising Warmaidens, or those trained by them, performed at a much higher level, and sustained fewer casualties, than conventional forces. stan http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 13:05:53 +1000 From: shawn@leme.anu.edu.au (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Empire of Selhomarr: Important NPCs Important NPCs: In this section is a sample of NPCs that the DM can use in order to confront the players with recurring characters during their time in Selhomarr. Mayor Aymir of Calimnis, son of Brenar: STR 8, INT 12, WIS 15, DEX 10, CON 13, CHA 12, normal human male, aged 58. AC 9, MV 90' (30'), #AT: 1 dagger, Damage: 1d4-1, Hit points: 5, AL N. Languages: Lhomarrian, Ilarnnian, Neathar, Antalian. Skills: Mapping (INT), Law and Justice - Selhomarr (WIS), Detect Deception (WIS), Lawyer (INT). Weapon Mastery: None. Born to a wealthy family in AC 942 in Calimnis, Aymir has always been interested in politics. After completing his Wandering, he studied law at one of the local institutions of higher learning, and became a lawyer. He won most of his cases, and gained a reputation for being fair-minded and incorruptible. Emperor Amaran recognized these traits as good qualities for a leader, and so appointed him Mayor of Calimnis in AC 988 in recognition for his work in upholding the law. Aymir takes his job very seriously, and wants to give his best for the city that gave him so many opportunities. As a result, he tries to meet community leaders on a regular basis, and has frequent discussions with Empress Dinaria, whom he finds a fascinating person. Aymir is on good terms with Dinaria, whom he respects greatly. He also thinks kindly of Mirinasi, whom he sees as a good counterbalance to Thessia's influence. He is neutral towards Tamaris, primarily because he has only had a handful of discussions with him, and even then on a purely formal level. The only public figure he is unsure about is Thessia, whom he finds overbearing at times, but admirable for her devotion to her principles. Appearance: Aymir is of average height for a Lhomarrian man (5'9"), and has short, thinning grey hair and light brown eyes. He has a slightly swarthy complexion, and is slightly overweight for a man of his size. He is almost always wearing his grey and green mayoral robes, and carrying the golden scepter of office. Aymir is a gentle, soft-spoken man, who tries to see all sides of the issue at hand before making judgements of any sort. Dinaria, Empress of Selhomarr, daughter of Inaria: STR 12, INT 13, WIS 15, DEX 13, CON 13, CHA 11, 3rd level female druid, aged 34. AC 8 (DEX bonus), MV 120' (40'), #AT: 1 staff or sling, Damage: 1d6 or 1d4, Hit points: 14, AL N. Languages: Lhomarrian, Ilarnnian, Neathar, Antalian, Jennite. Skills: Navigation (INT), Ceremony (WIS), Nature Lore (INT), Tracking Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 23:06:32 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f X-UIDL: 893646600.004 From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #250 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com Status: RO (INT), Survival - Forest (INT), Healing (INT). Weapon Mastery: Staff (Basic), Sling (Basic). Dinaria was born in AC 966 to Prince Manaran of Annurios. Always a bright and inquisitive person, she looked forward to her Wandering, and spent a great deal of it with the druids of the Veroxith Forest in the northern regions of Selhomarr. There she learned the ways of the druids, becoming one herself. Her life after her return home was relatively uneventful, save for the occasional foray into the Korvoris Forest, where she occasionally assisted the local druids in their efforts to protect the local flora and fauna - though her status as a druid formally ended when she returned home after her Wandering. Eventually she was informed that her family had made arrangements for her to marry Crown Prince Tamaris. Unhappy at first, she eventually came to love her intended match after they had been allowed to spend time together - - though her first love has always been the forest and its treasures. Dinaria still misses the forests to this day, though she has come to enjoy some of the benefits of life in the capital city. She meets the mayor of the city regularly in order to discuss civic improvements and other municipal matters, and so channels her energies into something she feels is worthwhile. Whenever she has the opportunity, Dinaria spends time in the Imperial Grove, helping the druid Mirinasi in her duties, or just enjoying the tranquillity of the place. She is good friends with Mirinisi, the current High Emissary to the Emperor, whom she met during her Wandering, and is neutral towards Thessia, whom she finds rather preachy. Dinaria has deep love for Tamaris, but finds him annoying at times because of his fond remembrances for his past adventuring days. Appearance: Dinaria is 5'5" tall, and is of average weight (130 lbs.). She has a pale complexion for a Lhomarrian, with light brown hair and blue eyes. Soft-spoken, Dinaria does not believe in wasting her breath, but will not hesitate to berate anyone who insults her, her family, or her nation. Generally, she is a cheerful individual. She often wears flowing gowns of forest hues, but has been known to wander about in more rugged clothing when venturing to the Imperial Grove for some fresh air. Gallos the Aged of Myiad, son of Alyir: STR 8, INT 16, WIS 15, DEX 14, CON 12, CHA 10, 4th level male thief, aged 74. AC 5 (DEX bonus + ring of protection +3), MV 90' (30'), #AT: 1 dagger or sling, Damage: 1d6-1 or 1d4-1, Hit points: 9, AL N. Languages: Lhomarrian, Ilarnnian, Neathar, Thyatian, Cestian, Antalian. Skills: Swimming (CON), Mapping (INT), Navigation (INT), Boating (INT), Alertness (DEX), Ancient History - Lhomarrian (INT), Tracking (INT). Weapon Mastery: Dagger (Skilled), Sling (Basic). Thief Skills: Open Locks 30%, Find/Remove Traps 25%, Climb Wall 90%, Move Silently 35%, Hide in Shadows 24%, Pick Pockets 35%, Hear Noise 45%. Born to a family of dockworkers and sailors in Dirdassos, Gallos learned early on in life what it meant to be a minority. Harassed by Ilarnnian street thugs in his youth, young Gallos made up his mind early on in life to leave his home and seek his fortune elsewhere. Passing through Sepirolos during his Wandering, he decided to stow away on an Antalian ship during a raid. Through sheer luck, he managed to avoid detection until he was halfway to Antalian lands, where he avoided being thrown overboard by showing his seamanship skills, which saved the ship from sinking during a storm. Reaching Antalian lands, he was allowed to go free out of the ship captain's gratitude. Gallos the wandered among the various towns, until he fell in with a thieves' guild in the town of Willnja at the age of 20. There he stayed for two years, plying the thief's trade and earning himself a reputation for being agile, and light-fingered. He also fell in with some adventurous Antalian youths, and the four of them gained reputations as adventurers of some repute. Not long afterwards, a crazed wanderer came into town from the south, telling of great riches lying beyond the dark lands in that direction. Showing some impressive baubles as evidence, the four young men made preparations to trek to this far-off land. The journey from Selhomarr lasted four months, which they survived only by scrounging and hunting (they even killed a young Vulcanian sloth), and from assistance provided by the wild elves living in the region, who were grateful for the assistance they unwittingly provided. Ultimately, they came to a realm where there were blue skies, and a yellow sun that set. They made their way northeast to steadily warmer climes, ending up in the region known as the Lost Valley. >From there they separated, with Gallos heading north, ending up on the Isle of Cestia. There he stayed for five years, learning the language and culture. After hearing of great empires to the north, he made his way northwest, and found himself in Seagirt, on the largest of the Pearl Island chain. He went further northwest from here, ending up in Thyatis, where he stayed 15 years, plying his trade to support himself, learning the language, and collecting choice pieces of lore to satisfy his curiosity. Eventually longing for home, he decided to return to his homeland, and retraced his steps. By the age of 43, Gallos has returned home, and went to the town of Myiad as a seeker of knowledge. There he learned the arts of discourse and philosophy, and he soon acquired a reputation for having controversial views on the nature of the world, though few believed him. There he remains to this day. Gallos does not have any real relations with any of the other major NPCs listed here, though he does find Thessia to be closed-minded about how the world works. Appearance: Gallos is an average-sized man for his age, with a slightly ruddy complexion, grey eyes, with white hair and a neatly-trimmed white beard. He often dresses in blue or light grey robes, and is often seen carrying a book in the crook of one of his arms. He always carries a dagger hidden in his robes, and wears a ring of protection +3, a souvenir of his adventuring days. High Emissary Mirinasi, daughter of Aluniria: STR 11, INT 14, WIS 16, DEX 13, CON 12, CHA 13, 15th level female druid, aged 35. AC 8 (DEX bonus), MV 120' (40'), #AT: 1 spell or staff, Damage: by spell or 1d8+7, Hit points: 33, AL N. Languages: Lhomarrian, Ilarnnian, Neathar, Nithian, Tanagoro. Skills: Nature Lore (INT), Healing (INT), Ceremony (WIS), Tracking (INT), Survival - Forest (INT), Snare (INT), Navigation (INT), Boating (INT), Singing (CHA), Dancing (DEX), Ancient History - Lhomarrian (INT), Area Knowledge - Veroxith Forest (INT). Weapon Mastery: Staff (Grand Master), Sling (Skilled). Mirinasi was born in AC 965 to an Ilarnnian farming family on the outskirts of Rethnaris. Always mystified by nature, she decided to join the druidic circle that cared for the Veroxith Forest to the north once she came of age. There she met the future empress, Dinaria, who was training with the druids during her Wandering. After a few years, she decided to move to the province of Annurios, where she could assist the druids living in the Korvorian Forest in their efforts to protect it. Over the following years, she became highly respected across the empire for her skills and her devotion, and for her wise counsel to Prince Manaran of Annurios on all matters relating to nature. At the beginning of AC 1000, she was voted at the annual gathering of druids to be the next High Emissary to the Emperor, a great honour for someone as young as Mirinasi. She has adopted her new duties with relish, and works very hard to represent the interests of the druids to the ruler. Mirinasi is a good friend of Dinaria, though she is more neutral towards Tamaris (she serves him out of devotion to her nation and out of respect for the will of the druids in choosing her) - primarily because she does not know him very well. The only other notable NPC she has met is Thessia, whom she finds representative of all that Ilarnnians dislike about Lhomarrians - narrow-minded, imperious, and fanatical about Xeron. Despite this, she has been able to build a working relationship with Thessia, but one that is cool nonetheless. Appearance: Mirinasi is a typical Ilarrnian, being rather short (5'3") and slim, and having a dusky skin tone (someone from the Known World might mistake her for a short Alaysian). She has dark brown eyes, and short, dark auburn hair. She almost always wears the brown robes of the druids of the Korvoris Forest, and her staff is always by her side. Mirinasi is a friendly person who always takes time to talk to anyone visiting the Imperial Grove, and to listen to any tales of the outside world. She is a veritable fountain of information concerning herb lore, healing, the wildlife of Selhomarr, and the properties of the Dillianora tree. Premiran of Heressina, son of Oromir: STR 12, INT 12, WIS 14, DEX 13, CON 16, CHA 14, 2nd level male cleric of the Outer Beings, aged 26. AC 8 (DEX bonus), MV 120' (40'), #AT: 1 spell or mace, Damage: by spell or 1d6, Hit points: 14, AL C. Languages: Lhomarrian, Ilarnnian, Neathar, Nithian, Carnifex. Skills: Ceremony - Outer Beings (WIS), Deceive (CHA), Ancient History - Lhomarrian (INT), Drinking (CON), Swimming (CON). Weapon Mastery: Mace (Basic), Sling (Basic). Premiran was born in AC 974 in the poorer section of Heressina, where lack of opportunities turned him towards the path of petty crime and debauchery. As a youth, Premiran was always bullied by the tougher children, and since that time craved a means of avenging the slights, no matter how small, that he feels he has suffered. It was not long before a local chapter of the cult that worships the Outer Beings noticed him, and, believing him to be a useful pawn, sought to entice him with promises of power and riches if he would swear loyalty to them. Premiran joined the cult, learned the Carnifex tongue (the language used in the cult's ceremonies) and during his initiation ceremony beheld a manifestation of Akh'All, one of the Outer Beings. The sight of this creature drove him to the brink of madness, and he wandered the streets of Heressina for several weeks as a derelict, drowning the ghastly image as best he could with drink. Since then he has recovered somewhat, though he is often plagued by images of Akh'All in his dreams and in the corners of his vision, which he tries to banish with alcohol. A loyal member of the cult, he has brought in many victims for the sacrificial altars, including those men who, as children, made his life miserable. Using his charm and his ability to deceive, he entices potential victims with promises of good times, and leads them to one of any number of abandoned buildings, where he overpowers them and drags them underground, where the cult has its temple. Premiran has no relations with any of the other NPCs. Appearance: Premiran is tall and thin (he is 6'2"), and has an ashen complexion. He has pale grey eyes and sandy blond hair. Despite his unhealthy appearance, he attracts victims with his soft and soothing voice, and penetrating stare. Due to his frequent hallucinations, he often has a haunted look about him, and sometimes mutters and giggles to himself. He is quite mad. Tamaris, Emperor of Selhomarr, son of Amaran: STR 16, INT 13, WIS 11, DEX 9, CON 16, CHA 9, 12th level male fighter, aged 37. AC 8 (1 with armour), MV 120' (40'), #AT: 1 short sword, Damage 1d6+8, Hit points: 72, AL N. Languages: Lhomarrian, Ilarnnian, Neathar, Milenian, Nithian. Skills: Navigation (INT), Boating (INT), Ancient History - Lhomarrian (INT), Swimming (CON), Military Tactics (INT), Bravery (WIS), Ceremony - Xeron (WIS), Riding Horse (DEX), Leadership (CHA + 1), Detect Deception (WIS), Survival - Forest (INT). Weapon Mastery: Short Sword (Expert), Trident (Skilled), Short Bow (Skilled), Hand axe (Basic). Tamaris was born in Calimnis in AC 963, the only child of then-emperor Amaran. As a youth, he was exceedingly precocious - a veritable "holy terror" to both the palace staff and the imperial family. A very active boy with an incredibly short attention span, Tamaris could not wait until he could go on his Wandering, and when he finally did so, it was with great reluctance that he returned home. Even after his Wandering was over, young Tamaris was always in search of adventure, covertly leaving the Imperial Palace whenever possible to meet up with his friends for a few days' adventuring in the wilderness. Occasionally he would pretend to go on diplomatic missions (claiming to be training himself for rulership), only to go adventuring in foreign lands for weeks or months at a time). Eventually, Amaran grew ill, and abdicated in favour of Tamaris. Thus, Tamaris found himself enmeshed in the politics of his nation at the age of 28. Not long after ascending the throne, Tamaris found himself in an arranged marriage with Dinaria, daughter of the Prince of Annurios. Fortunately, the two came to love each other, but Tamaris still feels that his new life has been forced upon him. Unhappy with ruling Selhomarr, Tamaris fondly remembers his days wandering the Hollow World in search of adventure - he would give almost anything to go back to his old life. He realizes that his duty is to his people, though, and to his family, so he has resigned himself to his role. Nevertheless, Tamaris still finds the time to go on secretive hunts with his old friends by delegating some of the less glamorous duties of rulership to his many officials. Tamaris is in good terms with most if the people he meets. This is mainly because his political opponents know his heart is not set on rulership, so he is not seen as a threat to anyone. Appearance: Tamaris is tall (6'1"), and slightly paunchy (he weighs 200 lbs., most of it muscle) from the relaxed lifestyle he has come to live. A restless individual, Tamaris often paces about, or fidgets with any nearby item. He has lively hazel eyes, and wears his long brown hair in a ponytail - - a form of rebellion against his short-haired political colleagues, and as a reminder of his adventuring days. His left cheek is heavily marked with white scars, which he got during his Wandering from an encounter with a dire wolf in the Rethelnis Forest. He often dresses in rich leather and silk clothing, cut to resemble standard adventuring garb. Tamaris always wears a ring of protection +1, and when in battle he wears a suit of bronze scale mail +2 and carries a shield +1. His personal weapon is a short sword +2, +4 vs. dragons. Thallia of Calimnis, daughter of Disalia: STR 14, INT 12, WIS 13, DEX 9, CON 13, CHA 11, 1st level female cleric of Xeron, aged 20. AC 9, MV 120' (40'), #AT: 1 mace or short sword, Damage: 1d6+1, Hit points: 7, AL L. Languages: Lhomarrian, Ilarnnian, Neathar, Nithian. Skills: Ceremony - Xeron (WIS), Navigation (INT), Ancient History - Lhomarrian (INT), Leatherworking (DEX), Teaching (WIS). Weapon Mastery: Mace (Basic), Short Sword (Basic). Thallia is an initiate in the priesthood of Xeron, having grown up in Calimnis to a family of leatherworkers. After completing her Wandering at 19, she felt the calling of the priesthood, and joined within weeks of completing her rite of adulthood. She saw too many people within Selhomarr's countryside who still lacked what many in the capital consider the basic amenities of life, such as opportunities to grow and develop, and an education of similar quality to that provided in Calimnis. She has now made it her life's mission to improve the lot of country folk. She is currently working at the temple in the village of Pesinnir, about 10 miles south of Calimnis, where she helps educate the local children, helps the farmers with their sowing and harvesting, and does some leather repair in her spare time - all to help the people of this village. As community service is one of the central tenets of the priesthood, her profession agrees with her admirably. Overall, Thallia is a cheerful, independent, and somewhat naãve young woman, who tries to see the good side of everything. She is also fiercely passionate about her faith, and would not hesitate to lay down her life to protect her culture, her religion, or especially the villagers of Pesinnir. Thallia does not have any relations with any of the other NPCs except for Thessia, whom she once met, and has admired ever since. Appearance: Thallia is slightly taller than average (5'10") for a woman, and is very willowy in build. She has short brown hair and hazel eyes, and a light olive skin tone. Thallia is slightly clumsy, and anyone watching her will notice she is always dropping things - but this is partly because of her shyness, and anxiety about being in front of other people and trying not to look silly. She wears a white robe over a brown tunic and breeches, and sturdy leather boots. High Priestess Thessia of Sepirolos, daughter of Lorissa: STR 11, INT 13, WIS 18, DEX 9, CON 14, CHA 11, 29th level female cleric of Xeron, aged 52. AC 8 (ring of protection +1, 2 with armour), MV 120' (40'), #AT: 1 spell or mace, Damage: by spell or 2d4+6, Hit points: 67, AL L. Languages: Lhomarrian, Ilarnnian, Neathar, Antalian, Milenian. Skills: Navigation (INT), Riding Horse (DEX + 2), Leadership (CHA + 3), Ceremony - Xeron (WIS), Healing (INT), Detect Deception (WIS), Danger Sense (WIS), Survival - Forest (INT), Ancient History - Lhomarrian (INT + 2), Law and Justice - Selhomarr (WIS), Art - Mosaic (WIS), Boating (INT), Swimming (CON). Weapon Mastery: Mace (Grand Master), Staff (Basic), Sling (Skilled). Thessia was born in AC 948 in Sepirolos, to a family of fishermen. Her father was a member of the Antalian community, and her mother was a Lhomarrian. From an early age she learned the rigours of a life at sea, learning both how to sail and how to swim before most other children her age did. The part of town that she knew as home was quite poor, and she was resigned to a life at sea when, at 15, she had a dream in which a shining man addressed her, and told her she had to sail over the Sea of Rax and render aid to an old man in need. That night, she sneaked off with some provisions, and set sail for Iciria. Luck was with her, and she reached the shores of Iciria in three weeks, and was "guided" to an area where she fought off a small group of roving Krugel orcs, who were attacking an old man. The old man was in fact a priest of Ixion, who received word from his Immortal that a promising champion would come to be tested. Thessia's survival was her test, and so began her path to becoming a cleric. Thessia rose rapidly in the clerical hierarchy over the years following her Wandering - foiling the plots of the priests of Thanatos, and those of the Outer Beings, from time to time, and eliminating rogue wizards who experimented with the undead and other black arts. She also spent a great deal of her time serving her fellow citizens by feeding the poor, helping farmers with their harvests, and hunting monsters that threatened communities. In AC 998, Thessia became High Priestess of Xeron at the age of 50, crowning her prodigal career as a cleric. She feels her whole life has been devoted to Xeron and Selhomarr, and that Xeron himself has guided her to the position she now occupies for a special purpose. In this she is correct, though she is unaware of the reason - Ixion has been girding his followers for the impending resurgence of the Carnifex. Thessia is on friendly terms with Dinaria, though she is neutral towards Mirinasi, whom she sees as interloping too much in her own role as spiritual advisor to the imperial family. She is loyal to the emperor, but her first loyalties are to Xeron and to Selhomarr, in that order. Appearance: Thessia is tall for a Lhomarrian woman (5'11"), but this is most likely due to her Antalian heritage. She has long blond hair (in a single braid to her waist) and blue eyes, and is of average build. Anyone speaking with her will recognize instantly the clipped tones of the Xerothnyi dialect of Lhomarrian, though her voice is smooth and rather quiet. Thessia is a determined individual, unwilling to admit defeat in anything presented to her, lest it be a test from Xeron. She also has a matronly air about her, few can meet her gaze and remain defiant, and her voice seems to carry a finality with it, as though she knows what is good for you, even if you do not. This grates on some people. Thessia always wears her ring of protection +1, and when in battle carries a shield and wears bronze scale mail +1. Normally, she wears the flowing red and yellow robes of a senior cleric of Xeron. DM Note: You may have noticed that many of the higher-level NPCs seem to have more skills than would otherwise seem possible. This is because they have been created according to a modification on the rules for skills. Instead of only applying bonus skill slots for high Intelligence at first level, I have done so at every level at which skill slots are gained. I find this far more accurately reflects an adventurer's experiences as he or she advances in level - highly intelligent people would learn more from their experiences than would less intelligent people. If you choose not to adopt this rule, please feel free to take off whatever skills you do not wish the NPCs to have, keeping in mind that the Navigation and Mapping skills, where they appear, are part of a Lhomarrian's special compensation, and should remain. stan http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #250 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 23:09:56 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #251 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Sunday, April 26 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 251 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - The Empire of Selhomarr: Lhomarrian Magic [MYSTARA] - The Empire of Selhomarr: Lhomarrian Relics [MYSTARA] - Of the Lore and Legends of Y'hog ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 13:07:10 +1000 From: shawn@leme.anu.edu.au (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Empire of Selhomarr: Lhomarrian Magic Lhomarrian Magic: Arthanell the Magus, to his apprentice "Thenamir, listen now, and listen well! I will say this only once to you - what you do with the knowledge I impart to you now is up to you. There are certain things we have learned during our time on this new world, since our Homecoming - the way magic works on this world, for instance, and the power that Xeron grants to His followers. While it is true that we have lost much of the magic we once had in Old Lhomarr; we have learned much since our arrival here." As with other cultures, the Lhomarrians have had to deal with the effects of the Hollow World on the laws of magic. Many of their old spells, now all but lost to the surface world, did not function in the new environment. As a result, some spells were created. As worshippers of Ixion, much of their magic is based on fire, light, and the power of the sun. First Level Spells: Cause Pain: Range: 50' Duration: Concentration Effect: Causes extreme pain to anyone within range. This spell allows the caster, through concentration, to inflict severe pain on an opponent. The opponents may make a Save vs. Spells each round to ignore the sensation. The pain itself causes no physical damage, though the person affected will have a penalty of +5 to his or her AC, as well as a further -5 penalty to all actions. The caster is also able to switch targets at the beginning of each round, though only one person at a time may be affected. If the caster is injured in any way, the spell fails. Lightbeam: Range: 0' (caster only) Duration: 1 turn or until dispelled Effect: Produces a beam of focused light. This spell allows the caster to produce a beam of light from either of his or her hands, in the shape of a cone. It is the width of the caster's palm at the source, and gradually widens over its 50' length to a width of 20'. The light moves with the caster's hand, so he or she can shine it wherever desired. To turn off the light, the caster need only close his or her palm, though the spell may be terminated early by thought. If the light is shone directly into the eyes of an opponent, they are considered blinded for 1d4 rounds. This spell is also available as a first level clerical spell for Lhomarrian clerics of Xeron. Map: Range: Touch Duration: Permanent Effect: Produces a detailed map of an area 30'x30' on a piece of paper. This spell allows the caster to create, on a blank sheet of paper, vellum, parchment, or any other pulp-based medium, a precise map of an area no bigger than 30' on a side. The caster must have at least walked around this entire area, or have otherwise been there before. Unknown areas may not be mapped in this way. What is produced by this spell is an exact overhead view of the area in question. Secret passages, traps, inclines, and other features are not shown. Restore from Fire: Range: Touch Duration: Permanent Effect: Restores burned non-magical items 5'x5'x5' or less to their original state. This spell originated in Old Lhomarr, and was so simple, but so useful, that it soon became the staple of any starting mage's spellbook, next to read magic. Upon completing this spell, any one item measuring less than 5' cubed may be selected, and any burns on that item will be instantly removed, and the item restored to its original condition. Even a fragment of the item is sufficient, so long as it is more than 50% of the original item's size, and the other charred remains are available. Second Level Spells: Navigate: Range: 0' (caster only) Duration: 10 hours + 1 hour/level of caster Effect: Tells the caster where his or her destination lies while at sea. This spell was invented by Lhomarrian wizards during the first years after the Homecoming, after the older means of navigation by the stars and the position of the sun had proven themselves useless in the Hollow World. Upon casting this spell, the caster need only think about his or her destination, and its location in relation to his or her current position will become known. Impressions gained from this spell are vague, and the caster will only feel a certain "tugging" in the direction of the destination - as though he or she is being pulled there. In order for this spell to work, the caster must remain on deck for the duration of the spell. This spell only works at sea. Wall of Smoke: Range: 30' Duration: 1 hour + 1 turn/level of caster Effect: Produces a wall of smoke up to 10'x10'x10'. This spell allows the caster to create, up to 30' away, a wall of smoke measuring up to 10' cubed. The smoke ranges from light grey to black in colour, and is totally opaque. The smoke is not dense, but anyone passing through it must Save vs. Dragon Breath at a +3 penalty or spend the next 1d4 rounds (determined by the DM) coughing in order to clear his or her lungs. Should this happen, the person in question will not be able to do anything else for the duration. All attacks within the wall are made under the rules for blindness, and any projectiles thrown through the wall are treated as being blindly thrown, with appropriate penalties (anywhere from - -4 to -6 would be a good range). Third Level Spells: Acidic Blast: Range: 100' Duration: Instantaneous Effect: Shoots a stream of acid at a selected target. Devised by wizards loyal to Galhossian the Tyrant during the Lhomarrian Civil War, this spell was intended as a means of weakening even the strongest and most heavily-armoured fighters. The caster is able to shoot a stream of acid, which hits the target automatically and clings to him or her, doing 1d8 damage per round. The victim may Save vs. Dragon Breath for half damage, but will continue taking damage until the acid is nullified by immersion in water, which renders it inert. In addition to taking damage, the victim's clothing and armour are also affected - leather armour takes 3 rounds to dissolve, scale mail takes 4 rounds, chain mail takes 5 rounds, and so on - with every one point increase in armour class equalling an extra round before the armour becomes useless. For magical armour, add one round for every plus - i.e.: leather armour +1 takes 4 rounds to dissolve. Generally speaking, only evil wizards tend to use this spell, and some priests serving the Outer Beings have been known to cast it as well. Aura of Fire: Range: Caster, or one person within 10' Duration: 1 turn Effect: Creates ring of fire around recipient. This spell has proven its effectiveness on the battlefield, when melee combat becomes necessary. Upon casting this spell the caster is able to creates a ring of fire around the recipient's body, that moves as he or she does. This fire does not harm the caster or any possessions carried, but will do 1d6 points of damage per round to anyone in contact with it. If cast on a warrior, then anyone damaged by him or her will take this fire damage in addition to the damage received from the weapon. Also, any flammable items touched by the fire have a 50% chance of igniting in that round. This spell is also available to Lhomarrian clerics of Xeron as a third level spell. Blazing Armour: Range: Caster, or one person within 10' Duration: 1 turn Effect: Creates fiery armour around the recipient. Recipients of this spell will find themselves encased in glowing, fiery armour that encases them totally. This armour renders the recipient impervious to all flame-based attacks (including the breath of a red dragon), but he or she will take double damage from cold- or water-based attacks. The armour confers an AC of 2, and has no weight. Anyone (apart from the recipient) who touches the armour takes 1d4 points of fire damage for that round, and any combustible items coming into contact with it have a 50% chance of igniting. Identify Servitor: Range: 20' + 10'/level of caster Duration: 6 turns Effect: Reveals any servitors of the Outer Beings within range. This spell allows the caster to identify the servitors of the Outer Beings, no matter what form they choose to take. Affected creatures are outlined with a greenish halo, which only the caster can see. Even human worshippers of the Outer Beings will have this effect appear on them. Also, the caster will be able to see the true forms of these servitors, if they are disguised. Those beings illuminated by this spell will not be aware of its effects, except in the case of more powerful servitors, who may be unaffected by the spell, but might notice it. Fourth Level Spells: Contact Outer Being: Range: 0' (caster only) Duration: One question or one insight Effect: Allows the caster to ask one question of an Outer Being, or to gain one insight. This spell was originally used by the Carnifex wizards and priests of Y'hog to contact their masters, the Outer Beings, in order to gain instructions or to have questions answered. This spell fell into the hands of Brell's crusaders, who arranged to have it sent back to Lhomarr. There it fell into the hands of worshippers of the Outer Beings, some of whom were sent to the Hollow World. The caster of this spell has a chance, determined on the table below, of contacting the Outer Beings, imprisoned as they are away from the minds of mortals. D 100 rollResult Notes for Caster (what DM tells player) 01-40 Nothing Feels only blackness. 41-75 Disturbing images Vague impressions, nightmares for 1d4 nights. 76-90 One insight Learn something about current events that only They know. 91-95 One question One question gets answered (answer comes in a weird dream). 96-99 Insight & question Same as above two, but both happen together. 00 Sharing of minds For one instant caster's mind becomes one with Them - insanity. Needless to say, the insights or answers gained from the Outer Beings are both highly abstract and disturbing - the caster could see bizarre vistas on unknown worlds, or other-dimensional realms occupied by the Outer Beings where things like gravity and geometry have no meaning. It is up to the player to find whatever hidden meaning there might be. In the final result, the caster, for the briefest moment, sees everything as the Outer Beings do, and knows what They know - something the average mortal mind is not equipped to handle. The caster would immediately go irretrievably mad, and would most likely spend the rest of his or her life muttering nonsensical but highly disturbing things. This spell is used primarily by worshippers of the Outer Beings, both in Selhomarr and on the surface world. DM Note: While it may seem highly unfair to have a character get written off in this fashion, these rules do reflect what would most likely happen when a mortal mind tries to understand things that do not have any parallels in an normal universe - even in a fantasy universe. If you wish to give the character a chance, you should play things up until this spell is obtained, have him or her learn about the potential dangers - as with most other spells, one would normally learn the theory before the practice. Fifth Level Spells: Sunsword: Range: 0' (caster only) Duration: 6 turns Effect: Creates a sword of light. This is a ancient duelling spell among Lhomarrian wizards of great power - one that was popular long before the Sinking. It allows the caster to create, around the hand of his or her choice, a 4' long blade of white light, almost as bright as the Sun of the surface world. No proficiency is needed for this weapon, which does 2d6 points of damage upon a successful hit. Sixth Level Spells: Alter Gravity: Range: 50' Duration: 6 turns + 1 turn/level of caster Effect: Alters the gravitational forces affecting one object or person. Originally created by a Lhomarrian wizard 200 years ago as a means to amuse himself, the alter gravity spell has become very useful in many different situations. It enables the caster to "fool" an object into believing that another direction is "down" for the duration of the spell, with predictable results. Living beings are also affected, with their bodies suddenly finding a wall or the ceiling to be a floor, and falling sideways - or upwards - in that direction. This spell can be quite deadly in large rooms, where the walls and ceiling can be quite a distance away. Normal falling damage rules apply for any living being affected by this spell. Solar Chariot: Range: 0' (caster only) Duration: 6 hours + 1 hour/level of caster Effect: Creates one flying chariot. This spell creates, for the duration of the spell, a fiery chariot, complete with steeds resembling flaming pegasi, which is capable of great speeds on the ground or in the air. The chariot, though dangerous in appearance, is actually harmless; no one touching it takes any damage whatsoever. The chariot can carry up to 6,000 coins of encumbrance at normal speed, or up to 12,000 coins of encumbrance at half speed. The chariot cannot hold more than two people with their belongings. Note that the stuff loaded in the chariot can fall down if the rider performs "acrobatic" maneuvers while flying. SPEEDS Level of Caster Ground Speed Air Speed 1-12 210' (70') 360' (120') 13-15 240' (80') 390' (130') 16-19 270' (90') 420' (150') 20-23 300' (100') 450' (150') 24-27 330' (110') 480' (160') 28-31 360' (120') 510' (170') 32-34 390' (130') 540' (180') 35-36 420' (140') 570' (190') If you are using the manoeuvrability rules as per the Dawn of the Emperors boxed set, the solar chariot has a Manoeuvrability Factor of 3 (b). When the chariot takes off, the flaming pegasi will run, flap their wings, and then lift off in two rounds. The solar chariot also produces its own pocket atmosphere, enabling riders to fly into the airless void of the Hollow World. Seventh Level Spells: Share Consciousness: Range: 200' Duration: Special Effect: Allows the caster to share the consciousness of another. This spell allows the caster to enter into another person's mind, and see, hear, taste, smell, and touch what that person does. The range for the spell applies only to distance at the time of casting - the target may travel farther after the spell succeeds and the caster may still remain "inside". If the target in question is willing to co- operate, the spell is automatically successful, and the caster may remain "inside" the other person's mind until that person wishes them to leave, or until the caster wishes to return to his or her body. If the intended target is either unwilling to co-operate, or is unaware of what is intended, then he or she can make a successful Save vs. Spells to maintain a "closed" mind. Even if the caster succeeds in getting in, the duration of the spell is one hour/level of caster in this case. In either case, if the "host" body is killed, the caster must make a Save vs. Spells or die, with a successful check indicating a safe return to the original body. While this spell is in effect, the caster's original body is in a trance-like state. Eighth Level Spells: Evilbane: Range: Touch Duration: 6 turns Effect: Enchants a weapon. This spell will enchant any weapon for its duration, giving it a +5 bonus to hit and damage against any servitor of the Outer Beings, no matter what their race might be. It should be noted that even human cultists would fall into this category. This spell is also available as an 8th level spell for clerics of Xeron. Ninth Level: Acid Rain: Range: 1/2 mile Duration: 6 turns Effect: Creates a downpour of acid rain over a 100'x100' area. This spell was first cast by Lhomarrian wizards against the Carnifex of Y'hog during the siege of that city. It allows the caster to create, up to half a mile away, a downpour of acid rain lasting 6 turns, covering an area 100 feet square. Anyone within this area takes 1d8 points of damage per round, with armour affected as with the acidic blast spell. As with the acidic blast spell, anyone within the area of effect may Save vs. Dragon Breath for half damage, though the only way to avoid the worst of the effects is to leave the affected area altogether and wash off the acid with water. One nasty side effect of this spell is that the land upon which the acid rain falls becomes blighted due to the poisons it absorbs, rendering it unusable for 50-100 years. Modern Lhomarrian wizards, with their greater appreciation for nature, would not even consider using this spell, and it has been banned by the various wizard councils across Selhomarr. Unscrupulous wizards have been known to use it, especially those in the service of Thanatos or the Outer Beings. stan http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 13:07:51 +1000 From: shawn@leme.anu.edu.au (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Empire of Selhomarr: Lhomarrian Relics Lhomarrian Relics: Excerpt from one of Gallos the Aged's many discourses: "...and so there are many today who think that Selhomarr is a nation of fishermen, farmers, and shopkeepers. Nothing could be further from the truth! Truly, our nation has among the largest standing armies in the world - - over 200,000 men willing to lay down their lives for their emperor, their nation, and for their families. But, you may ask, what of other forms of power? Did not our ancestors on the Old World manage to hold back greater foes than exist today, with fewer men and weapons of war? "In fact, my friends, they did. How, may you ask? To begin with, our people of old were the champions of Xeron - no other culture embodied His ways so perfectly as ours. We were verily made in His own image. That is another discourse, but he did render to us aid in the form of a great many magical works, the likes of which this world does not know. Many of these gifts are, unfortunately, lost to us with the destruction of the Old World, but some were brought with us to our new land. Look to the capital, my friends, to the Imperial Palace and the Grand Temple of Xeron! There you will find what you seek. "These are but a fraction of what we once had. It is even said that Xeron Himself saved some of the gifts we believe lost - by taking them back, saving them for the day a new champion comes forward deserving of His grace. Others say He has hidden them in our very realm, to be discovered Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 23:09:56 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #251 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com when the time is right, when Selhomarr needs a champion. Let us hope that such a day never comes, for the evil that would require of us these items would be fearsome, indeed!" As with many other cultures, the Lhomarrians have been given, and have produced, many magical items of great power over the millennia - especially during their time on the surface. Most of these items were lost during the sinking of Old Lhomarr, others were saved by Ixion for a day when a deserving champion would have need of them, and some were hidden throughout Selhomarr, guarded by fierce beasts and traps to test all who would seek them out - reserving them for the true champions. A handful were saved by the Lhomarrians, and have been brought to the Hollow World with them. These rest in the Imperial Palace, or in the Grand Temple of Xeron, both in Calimnis. Below are some of the various powerful items that can be found within the empire of Selhomarr, one of which is an artifact. Other items no doubt exist, and DMs are free to create their own, and place them wherever they wish. Each item is described according to its weight, its general appearance, how many the Lhomarrians know are in existence, its powers, some notes for the DM on its use, and a brief note - also for the DM - on the origins of the item. It is up to the DM to decide how much of this information will be available to the players, though Lhomarrian PCs will surely know some myths associated with them, as all of these items are major elements of Lhomarrian folklore. Many tales are told of these items - and of the people who used them - which may be used as a hook in adventures to recover them. The Bracers of Arminir: Weight: 1.5 lbs. (15 cn) Appearance: A pair of silver wristbands, with the pattern of a starburst on each one. Number Known: Only one pair is known to exist, others rumoured. Powers: The bracers of Arminir allow the user, when exposed to direct sunlight, to channel the sun's energy into magical bursts of destructive energy, controlled by thought and gesture, and activated by a command word. Upon speaking the command word, the user points in the direction of the intended target, and wills the attack to happen. A fiery streak of light emerges from the outstretched hand, and unerringly hits the opponent, as with a magic missile. Each attack does 4d6 damage (reduced by half with a successful save vs. dragon breath), and one attack can be fired per round. This attack is capable of burning flammable objects, such as wooden doors, thatched roofs, etc. Notes: In order for this device to function, both bracers must be worn. Also, there must be no obstructions between the user and the sun - if even a cloud intrudes, the bracers may not be used. For every full hour of exposure to the sun, the bracers store up enough energy to fire off one burst, which may then be fired at any time before 24 hours have passed. If the energy is not consumed, it dissipates as heated air. In any case, the braces can only store up enough energy for eight blasts - any extra energy is dissipated. The command word will not be present with the item, and it will be in Lhomarrian. One pair of these bracers exists in the grand Temple of Xeron in Calimnis, and rumours abound of other pairs in existence (there are, in fact, at least two more pairs lost in the wilds of Selhomarr, and at least one more in the sunken remains of Old Lhomarr). Origin: Little is known about these enigmatic and dangerous weapons, which were created by the ancient wizard Arminir circa BC 7900. There are accounts of their use in the siege of Y'hog, and at the Battle of Pelenzor. It is also believed that Brell himself possessed a pair. It is thought that less than twenty were made by the long-dead wizard, who sought a means to better equip Lhomarr's armies. Each pair was known to have its own command word. The Chalice of Xeron: Weight: 2.5 lbs. (25 cn) Appearance: A golden chalice about ten inches tall, with a cup six inches in diameter. It is studded with rubies around the base and the lip, and has colourful mosaics along the sides. Number Known: One, location unknown (lesser artifact). Powers: The possessor of the chalice of Xeron does not require food or drink for as long as the item is owned. Also, he or she gains the abilities of infravision and truesight, as long as the chalice is held in both hands. Any liquid poured into the chalice will gain whatever potion-like effects to possessor wishes, but it must be consumed from the chalice directly (it cannot be poured into a container for later use). The possessor may also use the chalice as a scrying pool, by pouring water into the chalice and concentrating, with the effects being similar to that of a crystal ball (the chalice must be held in both hands for this to work). Finally, the chalice can be used as a focus for an effect similar to contact outer plane, except that it is limited to contacting Xeron (Ixion) - of course, there is no guarantee he will respond. Notes: All of the above powers are activated by the use of command words, with the exception of the obviation of the need to eat or drink, and of the scrying power. The words are all different, and are, of course, in Lhomarrian. It is unlikely they will be apparent if this item is found. Origins: The origins of this item are lost in the mists of history. It was, in fact, given to the first high priest of Xeron by Ixion circa BC 9000, as a display of his generosity towards them in their early days. Ixion took it back before the sinking of Old Lhomarr, and has since deposited it within the bowels of one of the mountain ranges of Suridal, awaiting a worthy individual. The Sword of Thessia Weight: 3 lbs. (30 cn) Appearance: This short sword has silver etchings along its blade, in ancient Lhomarrian runes. The hilt is engraved with images of sea serpents, and a perfectly-shaped piece of aquamarine is set into the pommel. Number Known: Unique item, location unknown. Powers: The possessor of this sword will be able to breathe while under water, as per a potion of water breathing, for as long as the sword is held. The owner will also be able to comprehend all languages spoken by merfolk, and will be able to converse with them. Finally, this sword functions in combat as a short sword +2, +4 vs. sea serpents (this includes sea hydrae, dragon turtles, and other seagoing reptiles). Notes: Although not intelligent, this sword does radiate a strong aura of lawfulness, such that chaotically-aligned creatures will be reluctant to touch it. Origins: The sword of Thessia was forged by a now-unknown Lhomarrian weaponsmith, not long before the sinking of Lhomarr. He had befriended a tribe of merfolk living near the shores, who, out of friendship, taught him some of their arts in making enchanted weapons. Out of gratitude, he forged a short sword which would destroy the enemies of the merfolk - aquatic reptiles of differing types who were destroying their undersea homes. It was given to a brave young woman, named Thessia, who used the weapon and her legendary sailing skills to destroy the aquatic threats. Not long afterwards, Old Lhomarr sank, and though Thessia was lost, the sword and its story was not. Around BC 2200, a freak storm hit the city of Annurios, where the sword was resting. It ended up in the Bay of Lokam, where it remains today, no doubt lying in the lair of some aquatic beast. The Sextant of Hendaris Weight: 3 lbs. (30 cn) Appearance: This greatly resembles a normal sextant, except that it is made out of bronze chased with platinum filigree. All along the main eyepiece, flowing Lhomarrian runes are inscribed. The lenses themselves are of finest glass, mixed with diamond dust. Number Known: One kept in the throne room of the Imperial Palace in Calimnis, others rumoured to exist. Powers: The sextant of Hendaris is a truly remarkable navigational aid - it was one of these relics that helped the early Lhomarrians traverse the oceans near the Davanian coast, and find the virgin lands of Xerothnyi and Prys. As long as the sextant is held, the possessor's ship will have its hull points increase by 50%, no matter what type of ship it is. These additional hull points are removed first when the ship is damaged. The sextant also has a powerful effect on the weather, such that, within a two-mile radius of the ship, all bad weather is treated as one degree less severe - as per the chart in the Rules Cyclopedia. When used for the purposes of navigation, the lenses of the sextant are able to see the stars and sky through even the densest cloud cover - even that which is created by magical means. Notes: The sextant uses no charges when these abilities are used, and no command words are necessary. The only vulnerable parts of the sextant are its lenses, which, if damaged, will render its navigational powers useless. Dropping the sextant would be sufficient for this to happen. Origins: The sextant of Hendaris was created by the legendary arch-wizard named Hendaris, who was also famed for his sailing skills, circa BC 8800. Although his skills were superb, he was determined to best the elements, and thus created this item to aid him in determining where he was, and also to protect whatever vessel he happened to be using. The first sextant was used by a now unknown mariner to find his way to the shores of what is now the Isle of Cestia. Finding his way back, he reported his discovery of verdant, unsettled lands, which paved the way for the colonization of that portion of Davania. So useful was this device that the emperor ordered Hendaris to make more, so that Lhomarrian naval prowess would be augmented still further. Over the course of his life, Hendaris managed to produce two more (the process of creating one is long and draining), both of which are now thought lost by the Lhomarrians. After the sinking of Old Lhomarr, a second sextant found its way into the Hollow World, hidden away by Ixion somewhere within Selhomarr's borders. The other sextant remained on the surface, and was dredged up by Nithian fishermen in the Western Sea of Dawn circa BC 750. It passed through the possession of numerous sailors, pirates, and explorers of differing nationalities - most recently in the hands of a band of halfling pirates from the Five Shires (who may still possess it). stan http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 13:09:23 +1000 From: shawn@leme.anu.edu.au (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Of the Lore and Legends of Y'hog Of the Lore and Legends of Y'hog, City of the Unclean Ones, and of that Race "The time grows short; they will find me soon. Let not what I have learned be lost in the sands of Time from which I, Khalid Al-Jafar, have found it. What I write here is my lasting testament to the world. Let there be someone who may use what I have written here, for the world's time surely grows short - just as the distance between myself and Those Who Hunt also grows smaller with each passing day. They have found me, and They do not wish any to learn of Their former servants, who must now still lie deep beneath the waves. But the tale must be told, for if not I, then someone must learn, and carry this word to all people, so that the Unclean Ones may never rise again. Let it be known, for as the Unclean Ones remain trapped, those they served, The Outer Ones, still stalk the shadows at night, waiting for the time when the gates shall open once again, and They will be able to roam freely upon this world, as They did in ages past. Enough! I hear already the baying of Their servants! May the cold desert sandstorm shield me from Their view! So must the tale be told. "I found the following tract 'midst the ruins of Astor-Tzat, that fabled temple that is all but lost to the sand of Sind. I believe it is but a fragment of a larger piece, though only time will tell if this is true. He who has eyes, let him read and understand." Of the Unclean Ones, and Their Ways "In ages past there came unto the primal world a people that were unlike any to have existed, or ever to exist, upon its surface. None know how they came, or whether they happened to arise from our own world as such monstrosities of nature sometimes do, though they were here ere the first towers of fabled Lhomarr graced the land, and long before the first men of aged Blackmoor placed stone upon stone. "Of their aspect we know little, save that they were of reptilian stock, and walked upon two legs. Truly they were a fearsome people, such as they learned to stride and run where they ought instead to slither and crawl. It is known that they built great cities of blackest marble and obsidian, in quantities now unknown to us, on the shores of the primordial seas that were their home. Only fragmentary legends from Blackmoor remain, that tell us of the great ruins that were left in their passing. Of that legendary black marble nothing is known - no one has yet found any upon this world. This has left many of our learned sages to conclude that these people, who became known as the Unclean Ones, had their origins on another world, much as the Alphatians are held by many to be foreigners to our world. Such is believed to be the only way that this mysterious rock found its way here. "Their black towers cast long shadows upon the land, and there was nowhere where their touch was not felt. Many a living thing today bears in some way the mark of their tampering, a mute testament to their audacity. Their meddling in the ways of the world gave them the name that we know them as today - the Unclean Ones. They are named so because of the unspeakable rites they were said to practice by the light of the young moon and juvenile sun, imploring upon blasphemous powers that should not be named by sane men. Of their invocations and methods we thankfully know nothing, for such knowledge is best left with the Immortals. But in their magicks and sorceries they begat upon the world many horrors of which we now know nothing, save that they once existed. It is said that some of the fouler races, such as the Troglodytes, were created in this manner, products of unholy rituals upon innocent life. Such creatures as remain today are said to be among the most benign of their fiendish creations. "A fragment of a great treatise by the Blackmoorian mage, Slaan, was discovered in the wastes of old Skothar, amidst such blackened ruins as should not exist in this day and age. It told of a great battle between himself and a sorcerer well-versed in the magicks of the Unclean Ones. The foul sorcerer unleashed upon Slaan a veritable horde of things that should not have been, things that had no right to exist in a sane world. Though the evil one was defeated, and his servitors slain, the great mage suffered serious wounds, from which he never fully recovered. Such was the evil nature of the enchantments of the Unclean Ones. Of the descriptions of these beasts Slaan said nothing, and went peacefully to his grave without sharing his hideous secret. Surely they must be such as to drive the strong mind unto the darkest vaults of terror." Of Black-Tow'red Y'hog, Source of Corruption "There was but one other element in this tract of that great mage of aeons past, that told of the nightmare-steeped city of Y'hog, wherein the Unclean Ones dwelt and spread their pestilence across the virgin world. Of this city there is thankfully no trace, as it sank beneath the waves before the time of the Great Rain of Fire, though the lands which it neighboured still bear the mark of its passing. For in olden days, the black city stood upon a marshy island, nestled between what we now call the Far Mountains and the northwestern coast of the Urr-ath, with brooding peaks at its centre. Nestled 'twixt the great arms of these peaks, before a deep bay reaching north into what we now call the Middle Sea, lay Y'hog. Of great size it was, with walls nearly fifty feet tall, and so wide that three horsemen could ride aside each other along their tops. The gates themselves were of purest steel, and graven with images that no mind must conceive, lest the ponderer flee unto the depths of madness. Of its teeming hordes we know naught, save that they were either of the stock of the Unclean Ones, who ruled with tyranny, or of the lower servitors, of whom the Troglodytes were members. "Y'hog was a great port city, rivalling even Ecthelonius in long-dead Thonia, with its 100 quays and warehouses. Y'hog was the far greater port, fabled to have over 2000 quays, and 500 warehouses, laden with goods from piracy the world over. Great statues were said to line its dark boulevards and plazas, all of the various Beings worshipped by these unsavoury ones. Of these Gods we now little, save from ancient tomes rescued from the crumbling ruins of Astor-Tzat in the Sind Desert. These books tell us of a veritable pantheon of blasphemies, from Akh'All the Unmentionable, to Rasthz the Many-Mouthed, even unto their greatest god: He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Seen. All of these received their ghastly due upon sacrificial altars throughout the city. Such was the fate of those captured on the many raids of the Unclean Ones, or those who ventured too close to their shores. "From the accounts of Brell, in his fabled siege of Y'hog, we know today that, in many ways, that city was much like those in which we live. There were markets, homes, shops, and temples. Only with the knowledge we have now do we realise that, beyond this, Y'hog was of a different world. It was from the Great Temple of He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Seen that the evil of the Unclean Ones was brought forth, where their priests ruled, and where they laid their plans. For our own salvation, we know that this evil edifice was lain to waste by that selfsame siege by Brell, though he and his Lhomarrian fellows perished for their deeds, and fabled Lhomarr itself was drowned in a day. That is another story." Of the Destruction of Y'hog and the Immortals' Anger "It is said that the disease wrought by Y'hog was finally put to an end by the Great Rain of Fire. So say Myliehrian the Aged of Shieldtree, and Flavius Aurellus of Julinius. These learned sages are wrong, for the truth behind the destruction was the anger of the Immortals over the destruction of the blessed land of Lhomarr, which was consumed by the waves, emboldened by the foul magicks of the Unclean Ones. Such was their anger that they condemned Y'hog and its now-nameless island to the same watery grave that the Unclean Ones, in their audacity, had made for their enemies, the Lhomarrians. Their fate was not quick, for they were rooted to their land as plains gave way to swamps, and swamps to open sea. Try as they may, the Unclean Ones could not leave their island, for, in leaving their land behind them, they saw it come once again across the bowsprits of their ships. By the time Blackmoor had risen and fallen, Y'hog lay in the depths of the Middle Sea, where that water meets the Far-End Ocean. So ends the tale of Y'hog and the Unclean Ones, long may they stay in the depths from which they surely came." Information (for DMs only!!) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 23:09:56 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #251 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com The above information may be presented to players, in the form of a dusty scroll, a piece of torn papyrus, or in whatever form you wish. It was designed to have a kernel of truth at its centre, but lacking in vital details. It does not mention the name of the island of the Carnifex, nor does it say where Lhomarr once lay. In fact, the details are so surprisingly accurate, that many PCs would probably be inclined to doubt the contents. The references to the "Middle Sea", the "Far Mountains", and "Urr-ath" are also intended to be vague. The Middle Sea is what we now know as the Izondian Deep, the Far Mountains corresponds to the Arm of the Immortals, and Urr-ath is an ancient name for Davania. The original author of this tract was named Teleph-Khaa, a priest at the great temple of Astor-Tzat. It was written in BC 500 (AY 500), not long after the Alphatians had come to Mystara, and hence the reference to them. It was originally a voluminous piece of work, being an ancient tome of about 800 pages, all on the subject of the Y'hog and Lhomarr, and a detailed account of the war between them. It also contained speculation as to Lhomarr's original location on the surface (which, if this part of the work were discovered, would be surprisingly accurate). The PCs' Tract As for the writer of the paper that the PCs discover, the above information is correct. Khalid Al-Jafar was born in AC 178 to a family of nomadic herdsmen in what is now southern Ylaruam. Always interested in history and the obscure, he left home as soon as he was able, and, after receiving a dream (a message from Ixion) instructing him to head west into the Sind desert, he discovered the ruins of Astor-Tzat in AC 218. There, he found a fragment of the tract of Teleph-Khaa, and found that he could read it (another "gift" from Ixion). He then made his way back to Ylaruam to study the work in detail. All of this was a plan by Ixion to have the knowledge of the Carnifex of Y'hog reach mortals once again, for he knew that, some day soon, they would break free of their prison. After studying the obscure work for five years, Khalid became aware of strange beings following his every move, and it was not long before he deduced that they were sent by the Outer Beings formerly worshipped by the Carnifex. He believed that the Outer Beings did not wish to have knowledge of the Carnifex or Lhomarr spread among the surface peoples. He was correct, and it was not long after he wrote this version of the tract, in AC 225, that he abruptly disappeared one night from his town, amidst the sounds of roaring and baying inhuman voices. His body was never found, and is even now enduring an eternal torment in the home dimension of the Outer Beings. Fortunately, his manuscript survived, ultimately to end up wherever the DM wishes it to. It should pique their interest in a world that was long dead when Blackmoor was new. The information below provides you, the DM, with the real story of Y'hog. The Carnifex of Y'hog and Their Practices To begin, the beings known as the Unclean Ones were in fact a degenerate, amphibious branch of the Carnifex. They measured between 5 1/2 to 6 feet in height, and were of a very slender build. Their bodies were covered in tiny greenish-grey scales, their hands and feet were clawed, and their jaws were filled with rows of sharp teeth - which were often used to rend and tear their sacrifices, often while the victim was still alive. Never a very fecund race, their numbers were confined largely to their island home, and a few scattered colonies in Brun and western Davania. Of their practices, the legend is truthful. The Carnifex of Y'hog indulged in all sorts of evil rituals, in order to create their servitors, such as the Troglodytes, and to perform their spells, often of an elemental or necromantic nature. Their dabblings in the forces of nature, and their deeds, justly earned them the name "Unclean Ones". As a race, they interacted seldom with foreigners, save for ritualistic purposes (see above), and in their numerous acts of piracy and conquest. Many a people in western Brun and Davania has ancestral tales concerning foul lizard men looting and burning the villages of their ancestors. The Troglodytes and other servitors were the actual warriors, the Carnifex being too frail for that sort of thing. Y'hog and Environs The tale is also true in its telling of the approximate location of the island of Y'hegg-T'uhath, upon which Y'hog, and other Carnifex cities, stood and grew. The description of Y'hog is accurate - its walls were that big, and its port was of that size. Plunder was not the only thing passing along its quays, however, as there was also a brisk slave trade with less savoury peoples now lost to the mists of time. The island is also visible on the precataclysmic outer world map, where there is an island between the Arm of the Immortals and northwestern Davania, but it is not present on the modern map. I have simply made that island the island of Y'hegg-T'uhath. Information concerning the Lhomarrians will be given in a later supplement, but suffice it to say here that they belong to a fourth sub-race of humanity, which vanished from the surface world when Lhomarr sank. In appearance, they are of average height, with brown eyes and dark brown hair being the most common colouration, although blue or green eyes and reddish brown hair are not unknown among them. Their skin is generally an olive complexion, much like the Milenians or the Thyatian peoples - attributable to the location of Lhomarr and their constant exposure to the sea. While they existed on the surface, they were renowned for their seafaring, exploring, and combat skills. A timeline summarising their rise and fall is below: BC 10000: The ancestors of the Carnifex of Y'hog arise in the swampy region at the source of the Adakkian Sound. Soon afterwards, they migrate towards the northwest, but remain isolated from other members of their race. On the whole, they are inferior to their fellows, having a much-reduced talent for spellcasting. They do not take part in the wars between the other Carnifex and the Immortals. Because of their relative inferiority, they are not seen as a threat by the Immortals, and thus avoid imprisonment. BC 9000: The Carnifex arrive on the island that is to be their home, just after the last major conflict with the Immortals had passed. They name their island Y'hegg-T'uhath. BC 8700: The Carnifex are well-established. Y'hog has already been standing for some 250 years, and other cities are built elsewhere on the island. By this time they also begin the practice of sacrificing foreigners to their gods. BC 8500: Carnifex mages rediscover their brethren's secrets of manipulating life forms. The first blasphemous creations are produced soon afterwards. BC 8300: Carnifex society has evolved to its highest form. The Carnifex themselves occupy the top echelon of society, with Troglodyte and other servitors performing the common tasks. Decadence soon sets in. BC 8250: The first extensive raids upon foreign settlements are conducted. The Carnifex grow rich from their plunder. Colonies are established on the western coasts of the Arm of the Immortals and Davania, as well as underwater. Emissaries from Lhomarr arrive in Y'hog, seeking to open cordial relations. After a sumptuous feast, drugged with sleeping poisons, the diplomats are sacrificed. BC 8100: The colonies on Davania grow mighty, and development there divergs from the rest of Carnifex civilisation. These beings take to living underground, and begin building great subterranean cities. Those on Brun and underwater are less successful, many destroyed by the elements, or by local inhabitants. BC 7900: The first of a series of wars erupts between Lhomarr and the Carnifex of Y'hog. Many early nations lying between the two realms, primarily on Davania, face the brunt of the hostilities. As a result, large areas of the continent are laid to waste over the next 400 years. BC 7500: Carnifex magics have become potent enough that actual communication is now possible with their imprisoned masters, the Beings from Beyond. Lhomarr, almost broken from the strain of constant war, allies with other human nations for a final crusade against the "Unclean Ones". BC 7465: Azhat-Ith, the largest Carnifex city on Davania, falls to the Lhomarrian-led crusaders, after a three-year siege. All of the inhabitants, primarily Troglodytes and Carnifex, are put to the sword. Soon afterwards, the hinterlands of that colony fall into human hands. It is upon this site that the Milenian city of Kastelios will be built far into the future, under which the catacombs of Azhat-Ith remain untouched. BC 7380: By this time the entire northwestern region of Davania has been freed of Carnifex influence. Human settlement of this region begins, primarily by those whose ethnic stock would later be called "Oltec". BC 7200: After over a century of quiet, the Carnifex of Y'hog send an invasion fleet to the shores of Davania. Coastal cities in the northwest soon fall to the invaders, and those not slaughtered in the wild orgy of killing are sacrificed on the spot. BC 7180: The Lhomarrian colony of Eldamir, built upon the site of Azhat-Ith, is surrounded by a horde of Troglodyte slave-warriors and Carnifex mages. Otherwise, the Carnifex advance is halted. BC 7178: After a two-year siege, the starving inhabitants of Eldamir surrender to their enemies. None survive. Eldamir is given its old name and is repopulated by Troglodytes and Carnifex. BC 7153: Azhat-Ith is once more besieged, and this time it is razed by the furious Lhomarrians. None shall settle here until the Milenians found Kastelios. BC 7140: Once again the northwestern coast of Davania is cleansed of enemy forces and occupants, and resettlement begins. No trace of the earlier Oltec colonists is found. These had, in fact, fled earlier to what is now Brun, to the region now known as the Atruaghin Clans. BC 7037: A great naval force is assembled at Valannir, on the northwesternmost section of the Davanian coast. Led by Brell, a legendary general of the Lhomarrian army, the force prepares to invade Y'hegg-T'uhath, and destroy Y'hog. BC 7036: The force crosses the narrow expanse of water to Y'hegg-T'uhath, and lands on the southern coast. From here, they loot and burn the city of T'Kach, killing all of the inhabitants they can find. The Carnifex wizards and priests in Y'hog are alarmed that their island has actually been invaded. They attempt to contact their gods, but to no avail. Their gods have, in fact, abandoned them to their fate. BC 7035: The port city of Az'Ath, on the eastern coast of the island, falls to Brell's forces. It meets a similar fate as T'Kach. BC 7034: The far western city of Yian-Xoth is destroyed, as is the northern port of R'lzakh. BC 7033: Y'hog is surrounded by Brell's forces. He sends an emissary to demand their surrender, whereupon mercy might be given. The emissary is sacrificed in open view of the Lhomarrians. BC 7031: After two years of skirmishes and sorcerous contests, the legendary siege of Y'hog succeeds. The main gates are broken down, and Brell's crusaders charge into the city, killing in a frenzy of hatred and bloodlust. Within four hours, Y'hog's defenders are forced to retreat to the Great Temple, and from there into the catacombs beneath. On the surface, the crusaders destroy as many artifacts and items of the blasphemous gods as they can find, and raze all of the lesser temples. The crusaders, satisfied that their enemies are defeated, leave for Davania after looting the Great Temple. BC 7029: A final host of Carnifex and their minions, at the behest of their gods, carry out a perverse crusade of their own. They land upon the shores of Davania, and raze many seaside villages there. The gods of the Carnifex have, for the most part, abandoned their worshippers, and have used what power they can freely exercise while in their prisons to plant suggestions into the leading Carnifex priests. They do not care about what happens to these creatures; their only goal is to hurt their rivals, the Immortals, where it counts - through their worshippers. This is merely an act of vengeance. BC 7027: The Battle of Pelenzor takes place in a great valley which is now long buried by the Izondian Desert. Brell is slain by the foul sorcery of the Carnifex, and much of his army is routed. BC 7025: By this time the remnants of the Lhomarrian crusaders have been pushed back to the eastern coasts of Davania, onto the Cestian Peninsula. There, they gather reinforcements from the Lhomarrian colonies nearby, and gain renewed strength. The Battle of Okhtor Pass is fought on the neck of land joining Cestia to the rest of Davania, in which a sizeable portion of the Carnifex host is turned back. BC 7024: Despite their bravest efforts, the Lhomarrians cannot hold the peninsula, and are forced back to Lhomarr. This is not before a Carnifex artifact, given to them by their gods long ago, is destroyed by the surviving crusaders. This artifact helped channel the Outer Beings' mental energies, so that they could influence the thoughts of those who possessed it. In their wrath over this loss, and at the consistent failures of their minions to destroy Lhomarr, they decide to take matters into their own hands. BC 7022: The Outer Beings pool their energy to create a breach in their prisons, one which lasts long enough to direct their powers unhindered towards Lhomarr, the perpetual thorn in their sides. The waves rise up and smash the small continent, earthquakes destroy its cities, and, within one day and one night, Lhomarr vanishes beneath the sea. Before the entire civilisation is destroyed, Ka the Preserver gathers several villages' worth of people, from all walks of life, and sends them to the Hollow World, to the continent of Suridal. There, they begin the process of rebuilding their realm. BC 7020: In retaliation for the Outer Beings' acts, and for the actions of the Carnifex, the Immortals decide that such beings cannot roam free to lay waste to the world, or to enslave its people. They decide to make the Carnifex face the same fate as their former enemies, the Lhomarrians, who were liked by many Immortals. Instead of sinking their island immediately, they make the Carnifex suffer through their fate. Over the next 100 years, the island of Y'hegg-T'uhath slowly sinks into the sea, while those living on its surface are unable to leave it. Those sailing away from it are teleported by the Immortals such that, as Y'hegg-T'uhath vanishes behind them; it appears once again before the bows of their ships. Realising they cannot escape, the Carnifex retreat into the catacombs of ruined Y'hog (it was never rebuilt after the hostilities). BC 6000: By this time most memories of the Carnifex, Y'hog, and Lhomarr have faded into legends, and vague ones at that. Davania is largely uninhabited, and many of the ruins of the civilisations occupying it have crumbled to dust. Only the remnants of the sturdiest Lhomarrian and Carnifex cities and fortresses are still recognisable for what they are, and few of those survived the wars. BC 5000: No one now remembers the Carnifex or the Lhomarrians. In the Hollow World, the Lhomarrians have built a vibrant, peaceful civilisation, one that is eager to explore its surroundings. It has made contact with the Brute-Men and some Neathar tribes, but no one else (they do not know that no one else is here, yet). On the surface, some descendants of the Carnifex colonists of Davania roam the caverns of the Adakkian Mountains, but their number is small, and they have grown to fear the surface world. Underwater, the city of Y'hog has been rebuilt by the Carnifex, who, because of their amphibious nature, have survived the sinking. They find they still cannot venture far from what was once their island, nor can they reach the surface. Instead, they brood in their city, planning vengeance. BC 3000: The Great Rain of Fire occurs. Many Carnifex citadels underneath the Adakkian Mountains are destroyed by the earthquakes, reducing that group to the merest fragment of its former self. Y'hog also sustains some damage. AC 400: The Lhomarrians have explored large areas of the Hollow World by this time, exploring most of the coasts of Iciria, and even venturing as far as the polar openings. They have made contact with the Nithians (with whom they trade sporadically); the Antalians (with whom they have infrequent wars); the Kogolor dwarves (who are occasional trading partners); the Krugel Orcs (who fear the Lhomarrians, and will not attack them); the Milenians (who also trade with them); and the Merry Pirates (whom they find interesting, if slightly amusing). They have no interest in the Azcans (who killed their envoys), and have not passed by the lands of the Traladarans since before they came to the Hollow World. Apart from this, however, the Spell of Preservation keeps their civilisation largely within the territorial waters of Suridal (they occupy about one-third of its territory, and are its only civilised inhabitants). This suits them fine, as they are peaceful, and have no imperial leanings. AC 1000: The present day. The Carnifex of Y'hog, confined within their undersea prison, begin experimenting with magics that might weaken the hold of the Immortals, and allow Y'hegg-T'uhath to rise to the surface once again. Their relatives in Davania have recovered somewhat, but remain much more primitive than their fellows in Y'hog. AC 1008: Some Lhomarrian adventurers succeed in making a trek through the southern polar opening, but have forgotten the way back. They find themselves in a cold land, with blue skies, and a yellow sun. AC 1010: The Carnifex of the Adakkian Mountains begin rebuilding their civilisation in earnest, after their priests receive messages from a disguised Atzanteotl in their sleep. He promises them dominion over all they survey, to the farthest coasts of Davania. Seeing his message as a ray of hope for their declining people, the priests eagerly obey Atzanteotl's every wish. He now has a new set of servants on the surface world. AC 1015: Tales are told in Kastelios, Raven Scarp, Garganin, and other Davanian ports of brave, swarthy, strangely-dressed adventurers defeating great monsters, but speaking a language no one understands. Those that have met them learn that they speak an archaic dialect of Milenian, as well, and have learned from them that they come from a land called "Lhomarr", which no one has heard of before. They are believed to be insane by most people. AC 1025: Word spreads in the ports of Davania of groups of "lizard men" roaming the Adakkian Mountains, and strange buildings of black stone being built up on the peaks. stan http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #251 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 12:48:56 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #252 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Monday, April 27 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 252 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Creating Lhomarrian Player Characters Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] ???????? Re: [MYSTARA] - Gun powder? Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) Re: [MYSTARA] - Take a Chill Pill [MYSTARA] - M-Files part 2 [MYSTARA] - Great Multi-level dungeon [MYSTARA] - Did u know that... Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Multi-level dungeon Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Multi-level dungeon Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) Re: [MYSTARA] - Take a Chill Pill ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 13:10:06 +1000 From: shawn@leme.anu.edu.au (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Creating Lhomarrian Player Characters Creating Lhomarrian Player Characters A Hollow World Supplement by Geoff Gander The following rules will show you, the reader, how to design your own Lhomarrian PCs. DMs can also use these rules to create detailled, recurring NPCs as well. These rules have been written in the same format as those entries in the Player's Handbook of the Hollow Worldô boxed set. As such, you can keep it with the other races and cultures detailled there, if you wish. A note to the player - more information is contained within the DM's handbook. Ask him or her if you can consult with this other book to gain a better picture on your character's culture. The Lhomarrians The Lhomarrians are a unique people in the history of Mystara, mainly due to the fact that they have left virtually no trace on the surface world of their passing, because their heyday was so long before modern recorded history. In fact, they are now so obscure, that even the most knowledgeable sages question their existence. If you were to look for their descendants today, the closest matches would be the inhabitants of the Yannivey Islands, who carry some Lhomarrian blood, the and kingdom of Niscosenia, in the Lost Valley region of Davania, who also claim descent from them. The Lhomarrians travelled far and wide during their time on the surface, though, and it would not be absurd to find tiny traces of their heritage in many peoples today, especially those who spent any time on Davania, or had contact with the native peoples there. Dress and Appearance As a people, the Lhomarrians are of average height and are stockier than the average human, and also tend to have more hair on their bodies. In terms of skin tone, they range from a medium olive to a light pink complexion. Despite their appearance, however, the Lhomarrians are not a people who live in hot climates. When the Lhomarrians first arose on the surface, they developed in southern Skothar, which was then near the equator, and very tropical. They eventually migrated to old Lhomarr, which, although far to the south, was blessed with milder temperatures thanks to both warmer ocean currents, and a microclimate. Thus, they arose in a tropical land, but migrated to more temperate climes. Their constant exposure to the sun allowed them to retain their pigmentation. Most Lhomarrians have brown hair and eyes, although hazel or green eyes, and reddish-brown hair, are not uncommon. Lhomarrians with blond hair or blue eyes are quite rare, and people having such a hair and eye colour combination will not escape notice. Generally, Lhomarrian women wear their hair long, with the wealthier ones often tying it up with delicate, wire-like jewellery made from precious metals and stones. The most common form of dress for women is an ankle-length dress with sleeves reaching down to the elbows, belted at the waist. They are often white or brown in colour for the average woman, but richer ones will have dresses with vibrant colours. Over top of this dress many wear a long vest, extending below the waist, which often has colourful patterns dyed into it. Again, richer women will wear vests made from better fabrics, and having more colours. Counter to what many would expect, there is nothing forbidding women in lower economic classes from wearing upper-class garments - as long as they can afford the clothes, they can wear them. In terms of footwear, most women wear stockings (of finer fabrics for the wealthy) underneath sturdy leather shoes. Lhomarrian men generally keep their hair short, although many have short, well-trimmed beards. Most commoners wear simple cloth sleeved tunics, belted at the waist, and pants. They will also wear boots or shoes. As with women, the richer the man, the more vibrant and well-made his clothing will be. Commoners generally wear clothing that is white, grey, or brown in colour, although colour choices are not limited to these. Customs Most Lhomarrians are a simple folk - living off of the land or from the bounty of the sea. They are a peaceful people, who respect nature's bounty and what it has to offer them, who are eager to learn about other people, and who are always ready to explore what lies over the next hill. This does not mean they do not cherish their homes - far from it. While Lhomarrians are slow to anger, they will not hesitate to lay down their lives for their families, their homes, or for their friends. They show no mercy towards those who obviously have no regard for the lives of others. Many live in towns and villages scattered across their lands. Their homes are made of stone, covered with bright frescoes depicting heroic scenes, natural beauty, or other inspirations. Most houses are only one storey, topped with a shingled roof of baked clay. The layout of a home is often in a courtyard pattern - all rooms open into a central living area, which is sometimes open to the sky. As a people, Lhomarrians admire heroic figures, whether they are great warriors, bold explorers, or brilliant politicians. To be heroic, though, a person must know when to fight, and when not to. A warrior who kills his enemies with abandon would not be respected, while a less powerful fighter who chooses his fights, and negotiates a non-violent solution for many conflicts, would be given accolades. Above all, Lhomarrians have no respect for those who resort to violence as a solution, those who are selfish, and those who despoil nature's offerings by taking from the world without giving anything in return. They also believe that the greater good must be served - the welfare of the people must come before that of the individual. This is offset by the national drive to perfect oneself in all things that one tries, and to accomplish as much as possible with what one is given. Great achievements will benefit the people as a whole, thus initiative and achievement are encouraged. Priests, as keepers of the nation's soul and spirit, are venerated, as are druids, for their protection of the land, and the long line of emperors, who care for the state. The priests, as well as the elderly, are also respected for their roles as keepers of the lore and memory of the Lhomarrian people. Names As in many other aspects of their culture, Lhomarrian names are unique in that they have no real parallel on the surface world, save for perhaps those of Niscosenia. Generally speaking, Lhomarrian names are two to three syllables long, with suffixes determining gender. Some sample names are below: Male names: Arsanos, Atlan, Aymar, Brell, Coran, Derdan, Galen, Galhossian, Hardian, Iyonos, Loran, Mardan, Remos, Samanar, Trestian, Yorian Female names: Arsana, Atlania, Aymara, Brellia, Carilla, Disana, Gerinna, Ilyena, Jia, Lorii, Mirini, Narnaz, Redina, Semina, Tirini, Zikiza Unlike some other cultures, the Lhomarrians do not use last names to denote their families. Instead, a Lhomarrian will declare himself/herself as the son or daughter of a parent. Often, a man will be named "son of" whatever his father's name was, with the same true for women regarding their mothers. Many Lhomarrians also include their birthplace as well. Thus, Atlan, a typical Lhomarrian from Calimnis, would name himself Atlan of Calimnis, son of Hardian. His sister, Jia, would be named Jia of Calimnis, daughter of Thessia. Roles In Lhomarrian society, men and women are considered equal in the home. Both are responsible for raising the next generation, although more pressure is put on men to ensure that they can provide for their families. Only men may officially enlist in the imperial army or the navy, although, if a woman were to prove herself individually (i.e.: she is able to reach level two on her own), she would be allowed to join the army or navy. Women dominate the priesthood and the druidic orders, providing the largest part of the nation's spiritual power. In the political sphere, empresses are accorded the same respect as emperors - the imperial succession is filled with examples of great empresses who have fearlessly led their nation to better things. Although Lhomarrian society is quite egalitarian compared to other cultures in the Hollow World, visiting adventurers are quite likely, if they stay in Selhomarr long enough, to attract the attention of an adventuresome young woman, who wishes to leave home and see the world, and prove herself to her family. Language Lhomarrians speak Lhomarrian, Ilarnnian, and Neathar. Allies/Enemies Due to their isolated location, the Lhomarrians have no real friends or enemies, aside from the Azcans. They are generally on neutral terms with most cultures. If they had any true allies, they would be the Ilarnnians. Character Classes Since Lhomarrians are humans, they can be fighters, clerics, magic users, thieves, and foresters (if that class is allowed). Since druids are an important element of their society, Lhomarrians (like the people of Robrenn) can start as druids from level one. Most adventuring Lhomarrians are fighters, although clerics are the second most common class. As Lhomarrian society is officially monotheistic, clerics are likely to be worshippers of Xeron (Ixion). In Lhomarrian society, thieves are looked-down upon, and are considered criminals who are not giving their due to the society that supports them. Weapons/Armour Lhomarrians prefer to use the spear, dagger, short sword, mace, trident, wooden staff, and hand axe for melee weapons. For ranged weapons, only the short bow and the sling are available. Lhomarrian warriors have few choices for armour, being limited to leather or bronze scale armour. The bronze scale armour is a scale mail, knee-length vest, worn with a bronze helmet and bronze bracers on the limbs. A normal shield is also used by warriors. This provides and AC of 6, 5 with a shield. The armour itself weighs 400 cn. Cultural Melee Weapons: Axe/hand, dagger, mace, spear, staff/wooden, sword/short, trident Cultural Missile Weapons: Bow/short, sling Cultural Armour: Bronze scale, leather, shield/normal, leather barding for horses Clerics: Mace, sword/short, any armour Druids: Sling, staff/wooden, leather armour. Magic Users: Axe/hand, dagger, sling, staff/wooden, no armour Thieves: Axe/hand, dagger, mace, sword/short, leather armour Compensation The average Lhomarrian is pretty limited in terms of weapons and armour. They make up for this with their long history in the Hollow World - they have learned much about their world, and the average Lhomarrian will know more about geography and other languages than others might. As a result, each Lhomarrian PC gains an extra free language slot, and a choice of either the mapping or navigation skills for free. This is what you get for being a culture of explorers - the average Lhomarrian will know where he or she is, or will know how to make accurate maps of new terrain. Should a Lhomarrian PC forsake his or her culture, he or she will be forced to pay for the free skill by losing one skill choice later on. stan http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 23:47:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Charles Fodel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] ???????? At 05:45 PM 4/20/98 +0100, you wrote: >>Date: 20 April 1998 09:48 >>Greetings, >>I have a question for all those experienced mystara DM's out there! >>I have for the first time run a group of adventurers up to a semi-high level. The party fighter defeated a Roaring Fiend in combat and I allowed him to claim the fiend's weapon's (in prelude to doing something nasty to the fighter). >>Anyways I was just looking for any ideas of what to do to this fellow ( a rather proud/ arrogant fighter). >>So anyone got any interesting ideas for what I could do to this fellow? >>Bye, >>Anakin well you could have the sword demand some of the fighters life(hp) each time he uses it, and the lost hp could be permanant. when the fighter finly dies from loosing the hp he becomes an undead monster controlled by the sword *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 23:52:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Charles Fodel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gun powder? At 06:30 PM 4/20/98 EDT, you wrote: >Hola: >I'm relatively new to the Mystara (Known World) setting, and I am wondering if >any of the more "advanced" cultures (Darokin, Thyatis, Alpatia, etc.) have invented gunpowder? I know that the Savage Coast has it, but does anyone in the Known World? >- Technocrat >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. I thought that the gunbowder in the savage cost was a result of the red curse, a mixing of seed metal, and the dust found their. thus it is a thing of magick and only works in the savage curse reagon. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 02:25:45 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) In a message dated 98-04-24 08:55:42 EDT, brizio@lunet.it writes: >Let's suppose you're a glantrian commoner. How do you discern someone that uuses powers granted by the Immortals from someone who doesn't? >BTW: Treekeper magic is granted by Ilsundal, an Immortal, but it's probably not casted differently from standard elf MU spells, so how can you tell if that power is granted by Immortals or not? I am not sure that a commoner would be able to distinguish a Cleric from a Mage except by some fairly obvious signs such as waving around holy symbols, invoking the names of Immortals while casting spells, and wielding blunt weapons. This last "sign" probably influences most Glantrian Mages to wield daggers rather than staves, BTW. According to Gaz 3, the cost of a license for wielding a blunt weapon is higher than that of wielding an edged weapon -- so most Glantrians naturally prefer edged weapons. A wizard would have a better chance of discriminating priestly from wizardly magic. The major difference is that the wizard knows what he is doing and can analyze his spell step by step, whereas a priest is granted his powers "from above" and has less of an understanding of what he is doing. Elven Treekeepers may receive many of their powers from Ilsundal, but since they receive them in the form of wizard spells they can analyze them in a way that will satisfy wizards. Similarly, Mystics can prove that they are not casting spells at all but are using powers that they learned through intense meditation. However, a Paladin in this situation would be dead meat -- his powers are clearly granted by a higher power, and there is no way he can convinicingly demonstrate that these powers are under his control. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 10:28:08 +0000 (GMT) From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) Icconu said: >>And the Alchemists can't raise the dead either. (A very few necromancers can but they'd probably keep that fact secret. Also it's a lot more dangerous for them than it is for a cleric.) >Sorry, but if you haven't seen Etienne wish everyone in his family back to life again and again on multiple occasions....then you really don't know Glantri. True, but if Etienne is the only mage in Glantri who can cast wish (he was in 1000Ac anyway), then he's going to be very busy raising people, and somehow I can't see the Grand Master of the School of Magic taking time out of his busy day to become a porta-cleric. Family is one thing, but anyone else? Perhaps.. gordon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 10:28:09 +0000 (GMT) From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) ROB wrote: >>>And the Alchemists can't raise the dead either. (A very few necromancers can but they'd probably keep that fact secret. Also it's a lot more dangerous for them than it is for a cleric.) >I'm afraid Alchemists actually can resurrect people (its their 4th circle ability, so they can do it at 14th level...) Alchemists do it Frankenstein style - bolt of lightning and a few arcane devices. Cool! It's been a while since I read the abilities, but I may need to, I can't even remember what the heck Cryptologists do! :) Again though, it's a big nasty expensive process, (Does it need diamonds or something which are destoryed by the process?) only known by a few. While there's an alchemists guild, not every alchemist is in the circle (at least IMC)... Also, as to the circles being too powerful? Maybe, it depends on how easy they are to get in, they can be made too powerful by ignoring the experience requirments, the training time, the money and the role-playing required to get into them. Also I rekon elementalists are the most powerful, but that's just me :) gordon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 12:48:56 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #252 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 08:52:58 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Take a Chill Pill In a message dated 98-04-26 14:48:08 EDT, you write: << Thansk I think. I was actually looking for "numbers." Anyhting more specific? Thanks. P.S.: I did look, and that info wasn't anywhere . . .in my apartment. >> Oops....sorry I was in AOL WW2 Message Board mode. There, we regulars are often bombarded with newbies asking for info in lew of looking it up for school projects. Sorry. I'll try to dig out some texts on these and get those numbers out. Any particular timeperiods? Any priorities? Want references? Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 15:32:12 +0200 (METDST) From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - M-Files part 2 Hi folks! This is second part of the adventure ideas called M-Files and based on the TV series X-Files. As i've already explained in my old first post, some of them (or all of them) can be linked together in a huge campaign that puts the characters vs. a mysterious group that wants to masquerade or cover up its involvement in numerous events that happen in the world. What the final goal of this mysterious group is however, is left to the DM to tailor to his campaign. As a final note, it should be also possible to recreate the atmosphere of government cover ups if the party works for such a government. In this case, they could be special agents working for Alphatia, Glantri or Thyatis (which have a wide network of spies and informators who can direct the players to the various cases) or for a new political body called IBS (International Bureau of Security), a branch of the WDL (Western Defense League) that has the power to operate in all the state members of the WDL. Enjoy the adventures! PS: please, stop the Ethengar discussion... *groan* DM GenderBender This adventure is best set in Darokin or Alphatia. Various people die in flop-houses and bordellos in the seedy part of the city, but the PCs are called to investigate the cases when the son of a prominent man (powerful merchant or wizard), is found dead in one of the houses of pleasures. All the clues led the characters to an odd religious sect in a nearby rural area. The sect called the Kindred, have a rogue among them, one who hates the open land and seeks the city. Why did witnesses say that the victims entered their rooms with women and men came out? What draws back the rogue Kindred and what do the crop circle that dot the land near their compound mean? The answers can be many: the sect is composed by polymars that are spying on the city, but one of them has tasted human flesh and has now become addicted to it; the others are trying to capture it to avoid being discovered. Or the sect is composed by descendants of dopplegangers from another planet and are now waiting for their fathers to return, but one of them has gone crazy and doesn't want to leave this world... Young at Heart This adventure can be set in Glantri, Alphatia, Thyatis or Darokin. An enemy from long ago returns, apparently from death.. He lost an arm and other bits to the characters and was then presumed dead or sentenced to prison for the rest of his life. However, a wizard found him and repaired the damage using grafted troll flesh as an experiment. The wizard has been studying aging and used a process on the villan which made him about 20 years younger. Healed and escaped, the villan has bided his time. Now he has selected the character who destroyed his arm as his victim. He methodically stalks and kills the friends and family of that character, strangling them with his new inhuman hands... Darkness Falls In Karameikos, a band of loggers cut a tree that has stood for thousands of years. Inside the tree is a swarm of ancient insects (tiny mites), released when the loggers chop down the tree. The mites sting and poison the loggers to death and cocoon their bodies as food and breeding ground. The loggers families are worried and the characters are hired to find them. They go to the logging camp, and find the cocoons. Trapped for the night (make something up), the characters find that when darkness falls the nocturnal mites swarm. First, the characters must survive the night, and then stop the menace from spreading. Born Again The daughter of a slain city guard grows more like her father each day. But when she starts following various guards and they start turning up dead, she is arrested for their murders. The characters are asked by the mother to help prove her daughters innocence. The girl begins to display strange powers (telekinesis and spontanious image creation), and it develops that her father was murdered by corrupt guards, one of whom is seeing the mother. The father has returned in the shell of his daughter to bring revenge on his killers. The Host This adventure can be set in Glantri, Thyatis or Alphatia. A mage has discarded an experiment into the sewers below the city. Unfortunately, it wan't quite dead. It is a combination of a fluke worm and a man. Driven by vague emotions and primitive instincts, it has three goals: reproduction, revenge, and return. To reproduce, the flukeman bites a victim with its powerful suckered mouth injecting an egg. The egg grows in the host's gut for three days, then burrows up the digestive track and is vomited up as a small fluke worm. It escapes to the nearest water source where it will grow into a flukeman like its parent. The creature will attack many of the sewer dwellers attempting to reproduce. Second, the thing is aware of who created it and knows that the creator caused it incredible agony. The flukeman will try to return to the wizard's dwelling and slay him, preferably by implanting an egg (this is fatal as the worm eats its way to the mouth). Finally, if the other two goals are achieved, the creature will start leading his family of flukemen to gain control of the city sewers and then of the rivers... The party is called into action when some men (mainly thieves who used the sewers for their shady affairs) start to die because of the injected eggs and numerous boat owners and fishers report strange sightings in the city waterways. Blood Somehow, a town has been infected with madness. Previously calm and rational people have became hopeless mad and are killing their neighbors. What has happened is a contaminant has been introduced into the environment that causes people to hallucinate. People see their greatest fears, writing moves and shifts producing horrid messages about crimes and depravity, voices whisper goading one to the brink. Who or what has caused this? The characters must find the answers before they too succumb to this deadly contamination. It turns out that some spies working for an enemy power are testing a new alchemical poison on the townfolks by polluting the wells... or it can be the same government that has allowed its alchemists to test this poison on its own people to be used later in war... Sleepless This adventure is best set in Glantri (but can be also staged in Thyatis or Alphatia). To create the perfect warmachine, a soldier who need not sleep but can fight by day or night with no rest, Herr Doktor (Rolf Graustein) removed portions of the brains of five men. While the men needed no sleep, they required certain compounds of herbs and minerals to replace the chemicals created in sleep. These compounds were the only things that kept them relatively sane. Prinz Jaggar decided to test their capacities by having them raid a small village in the Broken Lands to retrieve a magical item he desired. They did not get the item however, as they soon turned from their assignment to slaughter all the inhabitants of the village, and eventually returned to Aalban. Enraged by their failure, Jaggar told Herr Doktor to punish them to teach them to respect the orders. So the doctor withheld their compounds and locked them in a cell together. In the madness, two of the men killed each other, one simply died, but two survived by removing the traces of the compound left in the bodies of their comrades and consuming them. Eventually, the remaining soldiers managed to escape their master when he freed them and fled (to Glantri City or to Darokin). One worked at an inn, eventually inheriting it. The other became obsessed with religion (maybe contacting a hidden clerical sect if in Glantri) and finally became an avenger. After 18 years, he has decided that he has been called to cleanse the world of the evil that he was part of. He has six targets: Prinz Jaggar von Drachenfels, Rolf Graustein, two other wizards who assisted Herr Doktor, the remaining soldier, and himself (will commit suicide at end of mission). He kills in an unusual manner: he projects dreams. He can at will project an entirely convincing dream, such that the person experiencing the dream is convinced it is real (if he fails his Saving Throw). Therefore, of the person in the dream dies, they really die because the mind and body are totally convinced that it actually is happening (a powerful version of a Phantasmal Force). The bodies will display the secondary signs of the cause of death (i.e. a burn victim will not be burned, but a high internal temperature, pugalist position, and internal bleeding would have occured). The PCs start to investigate after the second assistant of Herr Doktor is found dead without any real explanation and Herr Graustein asks either the PCs personally to help him because he feels targeted or asks the Prinz to hire somebody to investigate the matter. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 15:57:50 +0200 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Great Multi-level dungeon Regarding that post by Dave Arneson, i think there already is a great dungeon creeping adventure released by TSR back in 1995 IIRC. The name of the adventure (which is an AD&D generic product) is Labyrinth of Madness and it's a deadly 3D multi-layered dungeon which consists of 7 levels and a hellvua lot of nasty (and i mean NASTY) traps. The adventure is for a 15th+ level party and has AD&D stats, but it's easily translatable into D&D stats and monsters. The main plot involves an evil intelligent energy that takes hold of a subterranean community, finally turning its inhabitants (humans worshipping evil serpentlike gods...) into yuan-ti. The characters must find a way to rescue an old friend who braved the labyrinth and ended up trapped inside a gemstone, and they must find their way to the last level using appropriate keys hidden in the dungeon... It is a great adventure that could prove difficult even for companion/master level parties IMHO, but if u love dungeons with a good story behind and logical traps and encounters, this is what you should buy (it's also quite cheap). It also comes with neat maps and pictures to show to the players for better understanding the location they're in. To adapt to Mystara, you can simply locate it in Davania (remnants of the Serpentine Empire), in the Tanegioth Archipelago or in the Broken Lands... DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 16:16:50 +0200 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Did u know that... And now, for the Corner of Mystara-RW Connections... Bhuts and Vampires "Vampire (Nosferatu) by Lesa Whyte An undead that rises from the grave during the night to drink the blood of the living in order to stay "alive". Generally the word "undead" refers to a creature that should be dead but is still active within the realm of the living. The word "vampire" comes from the Slavic word obyri or obiri, which evolved into the Bulgarian word "vampir". Although sources differ greatly, some say that the Greek word nosophoros (which means "plague-carrier") that evolved into the Old Slavonic word "nosufur-atu" is a synonym for the word "vampire". In our culture, the words "vampire" and "nosferatu" are interchanged often. Birth of a Legend The vampire is truly a global creature, with myths related to the dead which rise to drink the blood of the living coming out of cultures all around the world. From Africa to Japan to Spain and the UK, the vampire has held humans enthralled for centuries. Nowhere, however, do we see more vampire folklore than in the stories of the Slavic people. Perhaps the reason for this is the historically high population of gypsies in that area. The migration of the gypsies has been traced back across the continent to northern India, where the religion had a cast of certain bloodthirsty deities (such as Kali) and creatures (such as a bhutu). It has been theorized that with this as a base of folklore, the gypsies picked up bits and pieces of other legends as they migrated toward the north-west and as a result, altered the folklore of the Slavic nations." [from: Enciclopedia mythica, http://www.pantheon.org(/mythica/articles/v/vampire.html)] Interesting, uh? It seems then that bhuts have been based (consciously i suppose) on these bhutus creature of Indian myth, and that they are more similar to vampires than lycanthropes, though having ties to both. End of the little Corner... DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 09:22:30 -0500 From: "Cecil Cosman" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Multi-level dungeon Responding to the message of Mon, 27 Apr 1998 15:57:50 +0200 from DM : >Regarding that post by Dave Arneson, i think there already is a great dungeon creeping adventure released by TSR back in 1995 IIRC. The name of the adventure (which is an AD&D generic product) is Labyrinth of Madness and it's a deadly 3D multi-layered dungeon which consists of 7 levels and a hellvua lot of nasty (and i mean NASTY) traps. I have this and have run it once. Nasty traps is a good way of saying it. The adventure suggests making new players for this adventure because of it's great ability to kill favorite PC's. When I ran it the adventure killed every one of the PC's in my group. But then they where not particularly careful until about half of them where dead. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:02:06 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Multi-level dungeon At 09.22 27/04/98 -0500, Cecil Cosman wrote: II have this and have run it once. Nasty traps is a good way of saying it. The adventure suggests making new players for this adventure because of it's great ability to kill favorite PC's. When I ran it the adventure killed every one of the PC's in my group. But then they where not particularly careful until about half of them where dead. I suspected this and i suggest you run the adventure (if u want to use the favourite PCs of the party) a la "The Game". basically, in this case it is set in Ierendi and everything goes the way it's planned in the adventure save for one thing: it's everything a fake! It's a new attraction of Gastenoo Adventure Parks for high level parties and he wanted to test it on an unsuspecting high level party of renowned heroes, and so he staged the whole thing choosing the PCs. Let them have a modified version of the Belt used in Gastenoo's parks (see GAZ4) attached to them (maybe the first tattoo key is a good solution) and thus the dead characters will simply lay unconscious until Raised by their comrades or until the tattoo is removed! The other monsters and traps have the same "safety device" so nobody gets hurt (monsters are Gastenoo's staff polymorphed or disguised...). And at the end Gastenoo will unveil the secret... or maybe let the party think they did an incredible feat... until the PCs will hear of this new incredible dungeon invented by Gastenoo a few weeks later... just a few ramblings... DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 12:47:22 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) << However, a Paladin in this situation would be dead meat -- his powers are clearly granted by a higher power, and there is no way he can convinicingly demonstrate that these powers are under his control. >> Can you please explain this? When a paladin doesn't cast spells he must appear as a absolutely normal fighter, and there are even paladins who doesn't have the necessary wisdom to cast spells. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 12:47:19 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Take a Chill Pill << Another issue -- in order to reach Cimarron, the Ethengars would have to conquer a lot of other nations in between. By the time Ethengar is a threat to Cimarron, they would have to control so much of the world that nobody would be able to stand up to them. >> Please don't bother us with useless informations. We were talking about a hypothetical situaition, weren't we? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #252 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, April 27 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 253 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Best Modules!!! [MYSTARA] - The Infamous Secret Circles [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Just one more word...(couldnt resist) Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Just one more word...(couldnt resist) Re: [MYSTARA] - Take a Chill Pill Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Ispans . . . and the roaring 9th century Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara [MYSTARA] - My webpage has been updated! Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara [MYSTARA] - I've eventually found you!! Re: [MYSTARA] - I've eventually found you!! Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals [MYSTARA] - The MML Homepage Has Been Updated Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] Get a Link to Your Mystara Web Page on the MML Homepage ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 12:47:23 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) << Also I rekon elementalists are the most powerful, but that's just me :) >> I'm not sure, if any craft is the most powerful, but if yes, I would suggest the Cryptology. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 19:36:39 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) On Mon, 27 Apr 1998, JamugaKhan wrote: ><< However, a Paladin in this situation would be dead meat -- his ppowers are clearly granted by a higher power, and there is no way he can convinicingly demonstrate that these powers are under his control. >> >Can you please explain this? >When a paladin doesn't cast spells he must appear as a absolutely normal fighter, and there are even paladins who doesn't have the necessary wisdom to cast spells. I dont think I wrote the above, but I have expressed myself similarly. IMO There is no difference between a paladin and a cleric. The Difference lays in game mechanics, which are irrelevant to people living on Mystara. Ofcourse, they follow different codes of behaviour. But Clerics are very diverse. A Paladin will generally be a better fighter and a cleric will generally be better at magic, but that depends on level, which again is irrelevant. If a Cleric doesn´t cast spells, they wont know he is a cleric either, as discussed elsewhere. Both clerics and Paladins can conceal their true nature, but if they fall under suspicion, a litle magic will reveal everything. And dont kid yourself. The Glantrians will use magic. And if the saving throw is successful, theyll just try again..and again... Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 11:14:49 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Best Modules!!! >Alan Shutko pontificated: >>I don't have my copy of the ballot anymore, but I'm quite sure that ToEE isn't on there (having looked) and I don't think GDQ is either, since it also had a series revival, iirc. Actually ToEE is suppose to be reprinted this year as part of the annual TOME series, it's called return to the Temple of Elemental Evil, and it has a reprinted copy of the original inside, should be out this summer. 'Playing football is like making love to a woman, once you score it makes trying all worthwhile." Chef, Southpark ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 18:55:47 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Infamous Secret Circles >I'm afraid Alchemists actually can resurrect people (its their 4th circle ability, so they can do it at 14th level...) Alchemists do it Frankenstein style - bolt of lightning and a few arcane devices. >Again though, it's a big nasty expensive process, (Does it need diamonds or something which are destoryed by the process?) only known by a few. While there's an alchemists guild, not every alchemist is i>n the circle (at least IMC)... Yeah, 12,000gp worth of equipment - and it only works about half the time. And there is a fair chance of it trashing the Alchemists expensive lab... I agree, it certainly wont be available to everyone. But then, neither is resurrection/raise dead fully (see! I know D+D as well as AD+D). Elementalism is a worthy skill because it means you can have permanent efreet bodyguards. However, check out Necromancy - then you can have undead beholder bodyguards, technically (but I doubt any DM will let you get away with that one - I wouldn't!) Speaking of circles, is there any canon equivalent for Alphatians? I have beefed up their spell lists with a few "Alphatian only" spells, mostly stolen from the Wind spells of Al-Qadim or stolen from the Great Net Spellbook - but that is all IMC only, of course. Have any Alphatian fans out there made a web site with some juicy details on Alphatian magic? (btw, fighter players would be happy to know that I use all those duelling styles from the Savage Coast, with the addition of a few KW styles, to balance out these circles... Karameikan Style is the only one I have needed to make so far tho! makes the Order of the Griffon a bit more "to be feared"...) See - I'm not just a mage lover... Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 18:42:33 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara Similarly, Mystics can prove that they are not ccasting spells at all but are using powers that they learned through intense >meditation. I was just wondering, and would like to pose to the MML... Does anyone out there use the AD+D psionics rules in Mystara? (I know, its a D+D world...). I would be interested to know how/if others use them. Psionics appears to be known on the Savage Coast (lupins, rakasta and araneas(especially) can all be psionicists to quite high levels) - aranea can even be mage/psionicists. I had forgotten the mystic class - do you think mystics are a bit of a D+D version of the psionicist? (different powers, similar concept). I know, 2nd edition psionics are very powerful and not many people I know of use them (like, me...). I tone them down... But you never know, someone else here might have a few thoughts on the subject. Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 19:16:41 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Just one more word...(couldnt resist) So I ask the List . . . what are some potential eligble heirs out their that ccould stir up some trouble in Brun. Dont just think nationally, remember that >part of the trouble with the feudal system was lords with multiple lieges by >various ties to property, and the mariages within a country could result in more "real" power ending up in the hands of some families than the monarchs'. >Thoughts. . . Well, my first thought was Darokin. After much searching i've lost the Gaz (again) but I think they have to types of region - Heartlands and Bordlerlands or something like that, and the guys who rule the Borders are called Wardens, or something... anyway I recall that those Wardens are basically the rulers of their little map hex. Due to the size of Darokin some of these Wardens could be quite well off, and decide to go their own way... Thyatis reminds me of modern day Russia - who knows what is going to happen there. The whole lot could disintegrate into scores of petty baronies... and nations nearby might lose a bit of land in the crossfire... Norwold is under occupation - but the country is huge, and has many baronies in it, some controlled by powerful people (like Coiger de Mory out of Vengeance of Alphaks). With the trouble in their homeland the Heldannics might turn a temporary blind eye to upstarts declaring independence, especially if its tucked away on top of some inaccessible mountain in the middle of nowhere. Wendar is just vast (at least so it seems) and is mostly wilderness. Gylharen runs the show, but half of his population are human. I wouldn't be surprised if there were a few independently minded human barons. The Savage Baronies have been stable since the Treaty of Tampicos, but before that it was a morass of changing borders. If the treaty falls apart, no reason why that couldn't happen again... Aengmor could split into two nations in a civil war, with the religious divisions there... need any more? Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 15:46:31 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Just one more word...(couldnt resist) On Mon, 27 Apr 1998, Robert Fry wrote: >Aengmor could split into two nations in a civil war, with the religious divisions there... Oh what tangled webs we weave. A Shadow Elf division would be just the thing to return the Canolbarth to the rightful protectors. But then again, Rafiel has WAY too much running on the S.E's. His whole Immortal project is done by the SEs, and a religious debate might blow something up. Hmm.. Max IV - Hurredly working on a Vulcanian Gazetteer.. Anyone have a Stop Real Life spell? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 13:00:21 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Take a Chill Pill >If its really down to it, just imagine if Ethengar tried to invade Cimmaron County, or Herath, or Eshu? Now that would be clear cut - bye bye, >Ethengar... I'd bet Jamuga would find a perfect exceuse for crossing the plane of Burning Sand desert that lies between Sind and Slagovich. Beside, if my military training serves me well, i know that Artillery will beat the Cavalry in a fair fight. one more thing, Jamuga would have to fight the Hulean Empire to get the Savage Frontier, and we both know that the Inheritors are a nasty bunch of Warriors 'I take life with a grain of sand, a slice of Lemon, and a Shot of Tequila' - old mexican saying on the meaning of life. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 16:15:34 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara On Mon, 27 Apr 1998, Robert Fry wrote: >Psionics appears to be known on the Savage Coast (lupins, rakasta and araneas(especially) can all be psionicists to quite high levels) - aranea can even be mage/psionicists. I really see that as a rather poor attempt to add psionics to the KW. Remember, most of the savage coast was fleshed out as Mystara was being moved to AD&D, that says to me that they wanted to be able to incorporate all the AD&D rules on mystara. >I know, 2nd edition psionics are very powerful and not many people I know of use them (like, me...). I tone them down... But you never know, someone else here might have a few thoughts on the subject. Psionics seem, at least to me to be a VERY bad addition to Fantasy RPGs. They really shift the focus away from the magical arts, and replace it with a pseudoscientific art. Then there are the ramifications of Psionics too. Aren't all mages then Psionics? They control and bend Electromagnetic forces with their minds and a few arcane phrases to create "magic". Psionicists do it without the arcane phrases. All a bit redundant. It all works in technomancy games like Rifts et al, but in D&D, it seems out of place. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:58:15 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara Interesting question, and this is probably not the answer you are looking for but... My players, mostly familiar with AD&D, have asked me about psionics in Mystara. My own idea, which has not been fully revealed imc, is that the Alphatians prevent psionics whenever they can. While Glantrians try to squash clerical power, the Alphatians are aware of powers far beyond the scope of the Glantrians. They are aware of the power and danger of psionic monsters and seek to keep Mystara "clean" of that power. I forsee a scene in which Zandor, or some other noble of Alphatia, will smugly inform the lords of Norwold, "You see us as harsh and oppressive, yet I can assure you that all things are done for a reason. If it was not for the Alphatians, this world would just be another food garden for powerful creatures called illithids..." Never mind the precise accuracy or inaccuracy of the statement. When WotI finally happens, a barrier to such creatures will be lifted. Those who remember the Alphatian claims will likely scoff and say the Alphatians lied about the danger. Then will come the invasion for which no one has protection... At 06:42 PM 4/27/98 +0100, you wrote: >Similarly, Mystics can prove that they are not cccasting spells at all but are using powers that they learned through iintense >>meditation. >I was just wondering, and would like to pose to the MML... >Does anyone out there use the AD+D psionics rules in Mystara? (I know, its a D+D world...). I would be interested to know how/if others use them. Psionics appears to be known on the Savage Coast (lupins, rakasta and araneas(especially) can all be psionicists to quite high levels) - aranea can even be mage/psionicists. >I had forgotten the mystic class - do you think mystics are a bit of a D+D version of the psionicist? (different powers, similar concept). >I know, 2nd edition psionics are very powerful and not many people I know of use them (like, me...). I tone them down... But you never know, Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 23:36:50 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #253 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com >someone else here might have a few thoughts on the subject. >Cheerz >ROB >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 15:26:18 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ispans . . . and the roaring 9th century on 24APR89 BoboII wrote: >Found the following on the Unoffical Mystaran timeline on the web (thanks >Daniel): >"902 AC: The Barony of Narvaez is founded along the Savage Coast by an expedition of Ispan people from the distant Thyatian Empire. Narvaez claims a great deal of land, from the Claw Peninsula to the Bay of the Siren (Baia da Sereia), including land already occupied by human, elven, >dwarven, and tortle inhabitants. (RS)" >Okay RS and Thyatian fans/experts out there, who were these folks, where in >the empire do they come from, where are they in the post-Wrath thyatis, and >when did they influence the Belcadiz elves (or vis versa). The Ispans as explained in the Savage Baronies boxed set, are a group of people that lived in Kerendas, and decided to accept the Emperor's offer of Western Migration, and so the immigration to the Claw Peninsula, some of the Belcadiz, might have been from the Kerendas region, and left after a possible clan between the Vyalia, and the Belcadiz, and so they fled to The Highlands, which later became Glantri. >PS: take a look at this timeline and tell me that a campaign set in the 800's wouldn't be a lot of fun. It would be if you can find enough Heroes and Villian to Peak our Interests. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:22:29 -0500 From: anowack@juno.com (Aaron E Nowack) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara On Mon, 27 Apr 1998 18:42:33 +0100 "Robert Fry" writes: >Does anyone out there use the AD+D psionics rules in Mystara? (I know, >its a D+D world...). I would be interested to know how/if others use them. >Psionics appears to be known on the Savage Coast (lupins, rakasta and araneas(especially) can all be psionicists to quite high levels) - aranea >can even be mage/psionicists. IMC, some orders of mystics are actually psionicists, but I don't allow players to become them. Also IMC, some people gain a wild talent as a Legacy on the SC, but they follow the rules for legacys (specifacaly they don't work outside the SC). _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 19:01:27 -0500 From: anowack@juno.com (Aaron E Nowack) Subject: [MYSTARA] - My webpage has been updated! Hello again! My website has once again been updated. It now includes the Air Machine rules, as well as a few minor updates. The URL is in my .sig The next update should hopefully include: 1013-4 (or depending on the almanac team 1015) Undersea Timelines Void Machine modifications to the air machine Aaron Nowack "In the grim darkness of the far future there is only.... SPAM." http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/5930/ _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 20:11:38 EDT From: BoBo II Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara In a message dated 4/27/98 1:48:57 PM, you wrote: << I had forgotten the mystic class - do you think mystics are a bit of a D+D version of the psionicist? (different powers, similar concept). I think its the good ol' 1st Ed. AD&D Monk. Remember them? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 20:39:51 EDT From: Magesmiley Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara In a message dated 98-04-27 14:48:57 EDT, you write: << I was just wondering, and would like to pose to the MML... Does anyone out there use the AD+D psionics rules in Mystara? (I know, its a D+D world...). I would be interested to know how/if others use them. Psionics appears to be known on the Savage Coast (lupins, rakasta and araneas(especially) can all be psionicists to quite high levels) - aranea can even be mage/psionicists. I had forgotten the mystic class - do you think mystics are a bit of a D+D version of the psionicist? (different powers, similar concept). I know, 2nd edition psionics are very powerful and not many people I know of use them (like, me...). I tone them down... But you never know, someone else here might have a few thoughts on the subject. Cheerz ROB >> Yes I do use them. In one place only though. In my campaign the Masters of the Five Shires are an order of psionicists with a nature based orientation. Currently I don't allow psionicists outside of the Hin and the Gentle Elves of the Hollow World (which also explains why the Gentle Elves are still in existence). - -Mage *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 18:15:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Matteo Turinetto Subject: [MYSTARA] - I've eventually found you!! >From the D-day, the terrible day I heard of the end of Mystara setting I felt in deep pain. years of gaming and mastering spent in order to explore and expand the unbelievable world of Mtystara seemed to be lost. But now I have dicovered that other Champions of Mystara are keeping alive our favorite world. Now also I'm here, ready to share my own works with every other true mystaran players and DMs. Soon i will send to you some materials about the forest-covered lands of the Norwold, the regions in which I and my player have adventured for so many years. My E-mail address is northil@yahoo.com if someone want contactc me directly. I beg your forgiving for my bad English, but I'm an outsider. May the Immortals wacht upon you! _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 21:36:46 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I've eventually found you!! At 06:15 PM 4/27/98 -0700, you wrote: >I beg your forgiving for my bad English, but I'm an outsider. May the Immortals wacht upon you! Ya may be a foreigner, but as long as yer Mystaran, yer never an "outsider"! Glorin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 23:12:18 -0400 From: Ron Murphy Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara My opinion on psionics is that they do exist on Mystara but are very rare--a true psionicist would make a great villain, but I would never allow a PC to have those powers. I'm reading the Illithiad currently and learning some interesting things about how the mind flayers understand and use psionics. 2nd edition psionics rules are very powerful, but only if you have many people running around using them. Ron Robert Fry wrote: >Similarly, Mystics can prove that they are not cccasting spells at all but are using powers that they learned through iintense >>meditation. >I was just wondering, and would like to pose to the MML... >Does anyone out there use the AD+D psionics rules in Mystara? (I know, its a D+D world...). I would be interested to know how/if others use them. Psionics appears to be known on the Savage Coast (lupins, rakasta and araneas(especially) can all be psionicists to quite high levels) - aranea can even be mage/psionicists. >I had forgotten the mystic class - do you think mystics are a bit of a D+D version of the psionicist? (different powers, similar concept). >I know, 2nd edition psionics are very powerful and not many people I know of use them (like, me...). I tone them down... But you never know, someone else here might have a few thoughts on the subject. >Cheerz >ROB >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 20:29:14 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals On Sun, 26 Apr 1998, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: >According to Dragon #170: "(...) the High Master of dracomancers may challenge a lesser dragon ruler and replace it. In so doing the High Master does not attain Immortality, but merely gains the ability to rule dragons of the corresponding ethos.". >From the same source: "The Glantrian Wizard-Prince, Lord Jaggar von Drachenfels, became the Star Dragon (...)", but then he "withdrew his claim on the rulership of all lawful dragons, in exchange for wich he earned the Great One's absolution.". There was a discussion between Bruce and the list not long ago (early last year- maybe in the summer- I don't recall exactly) about Jaggar's precise status with the dragons (he's not Immortal, nor was he ever) and even other stuff (Jaggar's choice of colors, etc.) Should be available in the archives. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 21:33:34 -0600 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - The MML Homepage Has Been Updated Mystarans, The Mystara Mailing List home page has been updated. There are some new directory entries (all I had, so if you are not on there, I did not recieve an entry), and some new links to Dragon articles. Also available on the MMML home page, for those who might not know, is the most current list FAQ, which delineates the list rules, the member directory, with lisitngs and info on many of the list's denizens, and a links section, which includes links to the best online sources for out of print Mystara stuff, Mystara or OD&D-related Dragon back-issue articles, and some Mystara fan pages. Someone asked about older digests. Since MPGN has not found the time to make the old digests available normally, I have added a link (in the links section) to the old digests on io.com. Also available is a PDF version of the Thyatian calender, 12 pages, like a wall calendar. Very handy for planning campaigns. I want to extend thanks to Tomas Sanchez, whose efforts in keeping the Dragon links current (and correct!) have been invaluable. Thanks Tomas! http://www.lesbois.com/members/malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html And, as always, there are a few of my own creations available at the site, including my own fully detailed and playtested spell system for AD&D, and a new saving throw system, usable with both AD&D and OD&D. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com ICQ #4253672 "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 23:25:15 -0400 From: Ron Murphy Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara Here's what the Illithiad has to say about Psionics and Magic. There is one theory that both devotions draw upon the same source of power, it's just that the "conduit" is different. The methods may be different, but the results will be similiar. I would allow saving throws for victims of psionic disciplines. All in all, psionicists are just another unusual type of mage... Ron SteelAngel wrote: >Then there are the ramifications of Psionics too. Aren't all mages then Psionics? They control and bend Electromagnetic forces with their minds and a few arcane phrases to create "magic". Psionicists do it without the arcane phrases. All a bit redundant. It all works in technomancy games like Rifts et al, but in D&D, it seems out of place. >Max IV >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 21:36:24 -0600 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] Get a Link to Your Mystara Web Page on the MML Homepage Have a Mystara-related web page? Get a link to it on the MML homepage. Just send me the URL. Do it! Now! Hey, it's free advertising. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com ICQ #4253672 "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #253 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, April 28 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 254 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] Register With the MML Member Directory! Impress Your Family and Friends! [MYSTARA] - Hello Mystara! Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) [MYSTARA] - rmunch@easynet.co.uk Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] Get a Link to Your Mystara Web Page on the MML Homepage Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] Register With the MML Member Directory! Impress Your Family and Friends! [MYSTARA] - SaveMystara Re: [MYSTARA] - SaveMystara Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) Re: [MYSTARA] - SaveMystara Re: [MYSTARA] - SaveMystara Re: [MYSTARA] - SaveMystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Hello Mystara! Re: [MYSTARA] - Hello Mystara! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 21:37:46 -0600 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] Register With the MML Member Directory! Impress Your Family and Friends! Mystarans, Want others on the list to know more about you? Want them to be able to contact you more easily? Well, then, send in your entry for the MML Member Directory! The only required components are the first two: Name and E-Mail Address. The ones thereafter are all optional, merely suggestions. Add additonal material if you like (although the Admin reserves the right to edit for brevity and relavence. We don't need a four paragraph description of your dog, for example :) Please send all responses to me rather than the list (unless you really want to send it to the list, though we had a thread like this not too long ago). I encourage everyone to join! >>>>>>>Snip -- Send this part only<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Name: E-Mail: Home Page: Home City/State/Country: Year I Started Playing RPG's: Year I Started Playing Mystara: Current Mystara Projects I Am Working On: Other xD&D Settings I Play: Other RPG's I Play: Occupation: Year of Birth: Other Hobbies: General Comments: >>>>>>>Snip -- Send this part only<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com ICQ #4253672 "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 02:01:27 EDT From: M76762 Subject: [MYSTARA] - Hello Mystara! Greetings, I am but a poor lonely traveler in this forgotten land. I was not aware people tread here anymore. But lo, a shining lantern has led me here to this list! (The lantern just happened to be... http://moray.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/~knight/mystara/index.html Thanks Glen) Hello All! I am no stranger to listservs having been a member of the Star Frontiers listserv for almost a year now. (Collective gasps are uttered... mostly "There is a Star Frontiers list?" and "What the heck is Star Frontiers?") It was my first RPG, but I was also intriguied by D&D. My older brother was a big AD&D player when I was younger (much), and I wanted to join in on the action. Of course I didn't want to spend all my hard earned cash on all those heavy hardbacks, so I went with the "Basic" D&D (aka Classical, Original, and Trendsetting). I bought the "Expert D&D set" having somehow obtained (I forget how) the Original D&D Basic Rulebook (the one with the 2 people and the Green dragon on it). Now I don't game too much anymore, but I have enjoyed reading all my old supplements in my spare time (sound familiar?). I HAVE all those AD&D hardbacks now, but you know... D&D is still my first love of fantasy games. (I do have the "New" Cyclopedia and have found it excellent) Recently I found out that the world of D&D was specificly called "Mystara" and that has led me here. So... let me lead off with some questions. I am new, so treat me as such please. - -Is this a primarily D&D or AD&D list for Mystara? And what is the difference anyway (the non obvious ones)? - -Who is the "Leader" or "Keeper" of this list? (Just curious) - -Does anyone have any of those cool PC/NPC & Item generators.... for D&D (not AD&D)? - -How big is this list anyway? - -How many Mystara sites are there out there? (Shameless plug time) And which of em are D&D (as opposed to AD&D)? If you feel you message would be better served in private, please do not hesitate to send it thusly. Thank you in advance Mystaraians for your answers! I look forward to lots of good messages ahead! Yazin (Yes its a Character name) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 00:23:07 EDT From: BoBo II Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) In a message dated 4/24/98 1:02:54 PM, you wrote: << There, each case would be closely examined and the defendant woul be sentenced according to the law. >> You are equating an enlightened legal system with enlightened application of it. I think the RW presents too many examples of "rule of law gone wrong" that I'd be pretty frightened to take my chances in a Glantrian court (with out the appropriate bribes, that is) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 00:27:18 PDT From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: [MYSTARA] - rmunch@easynet.co.uk >>Similarly, Mystics can prove that they are not casting spells at all but are using powers that they learned through intense >>meditation. >I was just wondering, and would like to pose to the MML... >Does anyone out there use the AD+D psionics rules in Mystara? (I know, >its a D+D world...). I would be interested to know how/if others use them. >Psionics appears to be known on the Savage Coast (lupins, rakasta and araneas(especially) can all be psionicists to quite high levels) - aranea >can even be mage/psionicists. >I had forgotten the mystic class - do you think mystics are a bit of a >D+D version of the psionicist? (different powers, similar concept). >I know, 2nd edition psionics are very powerful and not many >people I >know of use them (like, me...). I tone them down... But you never know, >someone else here might have a few thoughts on the subject. >Cheerz >ROB Hello man ... How are you ? ... You seem to be worry about the use of psy in Mystara games. As for as I'm concerned, i've never 'see' psy as good thing in any game : It was ( for me ) just sth created in ADD 1st edition to create players more powerfull ( Hi Monthy hall !! ) that's why even when i play ADD2 i never accept ( as DM ) psi ... I think it's an extremist point of view but I've always play as this as DM and none of my player seems to be worry ______ .-" "-. / \ | | |, .-. .-. ,| write me | )(__/ \__)( | at paris_i@hotmail.com |/ /\ \| (@_ (_ ^^ _) _ ) \_______\__|IIIIII|__/__________________________ (_)@8@8{}<________|-\IIIIII/-|___________________________> )_/ \ / (@ `--------` marcus ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 07:25:53 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara << Does anyone out there use the AD+D psionics rules in Mystara? (I know, its a D+D world...). I would be interested to know how/if others use them. Psionics appears to be known on the Savage Coast (lupins, rakasta and araneas(especially) can all be psionicists to quite high levels) - aranea can even be mage/psionicists. >> I have a small nation in decline that's based on psionics. It's in Skothar, but was much larger in the past. Now the numbers are dwindleing quickly and they are an endagered race. I have it like this in my campagins for the rare instance that someone might want to play a psionic. Also in the future the numbers will most likely be so small that the talent will become a lost art. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 07:31:04 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara << Then there are the ramifications of Psionics too. Aren't all mages then Psionics? They control and bend Electromagnetic forces with their minds and a few arcane phrases to create "magic". Psionicists do it without the arcane phrases. All a bit redundant. It all works in technomancy games like Rifts et al, but in D&D, it seems out of place. >> It doesn't seem like you know too much about the way psionics are used in the game. Psionics and magic are two completely different forces. You should take a look into the complete psionics handbook. They don't create magic. It's much more detailed than that. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 07:48:13 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] Get a Link to Your Mystara Web Page on the MML Homepage Geez! Duh! I should have tossed this address to you a week ago! http://CWSpot.com/mystara/SaveMystara The address should speak for itself. There are forums for giving one's thoughts and opinions regarding the resurrection of Mystara, and if someone is interested in joining the Mystaran Writing Group, there is a link. At 09:36 PM 4/27/98 -0600, you wrote: >Have a Mystara-related web page? Get a link to it on the MML homepage. Just send me the URL. Do it! Now! HHey, it's free advertising. >Leroy Van Camp III >malacoda@lesbois.com >owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com >ICQ #4253672 >"You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MMST3K >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 07:50:16 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara << The methods may be different, but the results will be similiar. I would allow saving throws for victims of psionic disciplines. All in all, psionicists are just another unusual type of mage... >> There are saving throws for most psionic abilities. It's like any other special attack. But psionicists are not like an unusual type of mage. Their powers can't be detected by a detect magic spell or anything like that. You have to think of it like something totaly different than magic. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 07:50:38 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] Register With the MML Member Directory! Impress Your Family and Friends! >>>>>>>>Snip -- Send this part only<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< >Name: Jeff Daly >E-Mail: jdaly@friend.ly.net >Home Page: http://CWSpot.com/mystara/SaveMystara Home City/State/Country: Maryland, USA >Year I Started Playing RPG's: 1979 >Year I Started Playing Mystara: 1979 >Current Mystara Projects I Am Working On: SaveMystara! and MystaranWritersGroups and the Alphatian Gazettes. OOther xD&D Settings I Play: FR >Other RPG's I Play: Ysgarth >Occupation: Teacher/Network Administrator Year of Birth: 1970 >Other Hobbies: Kung-fu >General Comments: >>>>>>>>Snip -- Send this part only<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< >Leroy Van Camp III >malacoda@lesbois.com >owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com >ICQ #4253672 >"You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MMST3K >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 08:32:44 -0400 From: Daly Subject: [MYSTARA] - SaveMystara Hey! Where are all the opinions?? So far we only have 11 posts regarding the revival of Mystara as a gameworld. Let's see some more positive responses to this! We need your input! Even so simple a message as "I like Mystara" is fine. But what we are really looking for is wisdom regarding how YOU would like TSR to revive Mystara. What role should the world play in or beyond the AD&D universe? What year do you want to see as the campaign norm? I have spoken with so many opinionated people on this list that I just cannot believe there are only 11 of us out there! The address is below... http://CWSpot.com/mystara/SaveMystara/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 00:11:36 +1000 (EST) From: "The Astronauts' Guild" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - SaveMystara Tried leaving a message on your website but it crashed and burned... so here goes again... T$R once again betray the ideals of the gaming community, and it would be far better for us to publish unofficial Mystaran scrolls true to the original spirit of the wonderful world of Mystara than let the Witches of the Crust dictate our dreams and gaming. We have all invested time, money and yes even our childhoods in Mystara Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 12:37:42 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #254 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com and it is a betrayal for this product line, if you want to call it that, to be first bastardised and cannibalised for Forgettable Realms et al and then just sidelined and shelved. Gaming has come a long way from its humble and cool roots, to the dizzying heights of corporatised sanitised pap in box sets for zombies. We keep hoping its all some Dero plot. We only just started playing the AD&D boxed sets of Mystara which are far and away better than any other TSR box sets. If this is the product that is cancelled then there really is no hope for TSR in the long term, and their many many critics have been proven 100% right. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 16:18:51 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Riposte (sorry, too much RS) On Sat, 25 Apr 1998, BoBo II wrote: >In a message dated 4/24/98 1:02:54 PM, you wrote: ><< There, each case would be >closely examined and the defendant woul be sentenced according to the law. >> >You are equating an enlightened legal system with enlightened application of it. I think the RW presents too many examples of "rule of law gone wrong" that I'd be pretty frightened to take my chances in a Glantrian court (with out the appropriate bribes, that is) Well. I guess the main difference is that people in Glantri have a different view on justice than most people in the Real World do. The legal system in Glantri is designed to protect the interests of mages. Though that doesnt make it corrupt in other ways. It still preserves order. And I dont think it is arbitrary at all. If you have committed a crime, you will be punnished. If you havent, you're free to go. Ofcourse, what is considered a crime in Glantri may seem very strange and injust to forreigners. As for your chances in court, it would depend on whether you are a mage or not. I guess you're not, but if you were, your chances would be pretty good. Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 10:27:00 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - SaveMystara Thanks for your response! At 12:11 AM 4/29/98 +1000, you wrote: >Tried leaving a message on your website but it crashed and burned... so here goes again... Sorry about that. >T$R once again betray the ideals of the gaming community, and it would be far better for us to publish unofficial Mystaran scrolls true to the original spirit of the wonderful world of Mystara than let the Witches of the Crust dictate our dreams and gaming. Well, believe me, TSR wants to make a profit. This only makes sense. They are a company. If we can convince them that Mystara can and did make money for them, then yes, they will resurrect it. I am always somewhat amazed at the extreme feeling we Mystarans have for our setting. Some (including myself) have jokingly referred to it as a religion, others speak in terms of TSR "betraying" us or "hurting" us. Such emotional speech is very interesting. We are not discussing a parent, or a child, or a lover. We are discussing the producer of a product. If they put out a product we like, let's buy it and reward them. If they put out a product we don't like, then let's not buy it and let them know why we do not like it. For a time there, especially, there was little that TSR was doing that I liked. Mystara, one of the oldest settings, was being marketed to new players. There was no vehicle to actually bring these new players to Mystara. The setting was simply marketed to these nonexistant new players and the experienced Mystarans were left with no new products to buy. When Mystara did not produce any money as an AD&D product, it was assumed the setting was what was lacking. No, it was marketing strategy. Plain and simple. The same thing that killed Commodore and Beta video machines. Often, it is seen, the better product loses based solely on marketing. What we at the SaveMystara project are trying to accomplish, is a revival of Mystara with proper marketing. We believe it can be done. But it is a long shot. Call me a patron of lost causes. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 10:39:34 EDT From: CRlPTONITE Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - SaveMystara << Hey! Where are all the opinions?? So far we only have 11 posts regarding the revival of Mystara as a gameworld. Let's see some more positive responses to this! We need your input! >> Can you again explain what these posts will be used for exactly? (Sorry, I can't remember) Thanks - --- -- --Criptonite *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 10:48:57 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - SaveMystara At 10:39 AM 4/28/98 EDT, you wrote: ><< Hey! Where are all the opinions?? So far we only have 11 posts regarding tthe revival of Mystara as a gameworld. Let's see some more positive responses to this! We need your input! >> >Can you again explain what these posts will be used for exactly? (Sorry, I can't remember) >Thanks >--- -- --Criptonite As the SaveMystara movement grows, we want to have a central place we can point the marketers at TSR to. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 10:53:24 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara In a message dated 98-04-27 18:22:17 EDT, you write: << Interesting question, and this is probably not the answer you are looking for but... My players, mostly familiar with AD&D, have asked me about psionics in Mystara. My own idea, which has not been fully revealed imc, is that the Alphatians prevent psionics whenever they can. While Glantrians try to squash clerical power, the Alphatians are aware of powers far beyond the scope of the Glantrians. They are aware of the power and danger of psionic monsters and seek to keep Mystara "clean" of that power. I forsee a scene in which Zandor, or some other noble of Alphatia, will smugly inform the lords of Norwold, "You see us as harsh and oppressive, yet I can assure you that all things are done for a reason. If it was not for the Alphatians, this world would just be another food garden for powerful creatures called illithids..." Never mind the precise accuracy or inaccuracy of the statement. When WotI finally happens, a barrier to such creatures will be lifted. Those who remember the Alphatian claims will likely scoff and say the Alphatians lied about the danger. Then will come the invasion for which no one has protection... >> I usually stay away from the "Psionics" subject when it pops up. I just do not know enough about them. What I would like to comment on is Jeff's statement about the Alphatians acting to stamp out this practice. Could go much to explain the reason that Alphatia is not the standard language of Mystara. By opposing what they percieve as a rival art, they are assisting (albeit perhaps unintentially) preserve Mystara by keeping powerful nasties out. Hmm.....with the Alphatian overlords gone, Mystara could very much become a most hectic place. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 17:26:53 +0200 (MET DST) From: Wolfgang Razen Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) >Sticks to Snakes (Especially nasty if cast after some Arrow-volleys, hehehe) Strike (onto experienced ones) >Insect Swarm >Animate Object >> >Not really. I didn't want to expand the list tremendously. You could add: >Purify Water and Food >Aerial Servant >Earthquake >Holy Word >Quest >Neutralize Poison >Hold Person >Speak to animals >Speak to Plants I don't see the military application of these Speak-with spells, The plants (e.g.) cannot do anything. The same for Quest, Neutr. Poison, ... But you're right, especially Holh Person ist very powerful used in masses... >All have more or less military value. But thanks for mentioning more of the incredible power of clerics. (I must know this, as I play a level 16 cleric.) I'm playing a lvl 35 Tarastia Cleric (Land owning). A Theocracy is hard to beat Wolfgang *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 11:33:52 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara On Tue, 28 Apr 1998, Inconu wrote: >It doesn't seem like you know too much about the way psionics are used in the game. Psionics and magic are two completely different forces. You should take a look into the complete psionics handbook. They don't create magic. It's much more detailed than that. Actually, I'm using a standard definition of Psionics as defined in non RPG books on the subject. The only "complete handbook" I own is the Elves one, so I don't have the background on Psi that one may expect. However, since I don't deal with Psi anyway, this arguement is moot. Also we're considering Mystara here. Are AD&D Complete Handbooks really valid in this setting? Sure Mystara is now AD&D officially, but how many of us still convert back to oD&D? Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 11:41:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Hello Mystara! >Now I don't game too much anymore, but I have enjoyed reading all my old supplements in my spare time (sound familiar?). Definitely. I haven't played an RPG in years, but still look at the books occasionally and am involved in several RPG lists. Something about these settings just sticks with me. >So... let me lead off with some questions. I am new, so treat me as such please. No problem. Welcome to the list! Always nice to hear new voices. >-Is this a primarily D&D or AD&D list for Mystara? And what is the difference anyway (the non obvious ones)? No real difference in discussion re: the setting I think. The list's primary function is to discuss Mystara but it also serves a D&D list to a very minor extent, seeing as how the two are very interrelated and seeing as how there are no other forums for discussion of D&D (rec.games.frp.dnd is mostly ADND or was when last I read it regularly). Many people post new material in both formats, though many only use one or the other. >-Who is the "Leader" or "Keeper" of this list? (Just curious) Leroy Van Camp started the list and is the administrator, but he has repeatedly said he likes it when the list polices itself (which it has done well IMO). Thanks for making the list, Leroy! >-How many Mystara sites are there out there? (Shameless plug time) And which of em are D&D (as opposed to AD&D)? All of them are mixed DND/ADND as far as I know. Shawn Staley (sp?) has the 'official' list page but most of the pages have links to one another. And if you want to see what kind of material the list puts out, most of the stuff on these pages is directly from the list. >Thank you in advance Mystaraians for your answers! I look forward to lots of good messages ahead! Hopefully we won't disapoint! I'm not going to say I'm a better revolutionary, but I'm definitely a better cook than Che was. - Fidel Castro *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 12:30:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Hello Mystara! At 02:01 AM 4/28/98 EDT, you wrote: >Greetings, Hey, Yazin! Good to see you again! >Hello All! >I am no stranger to listservs having been a member of the Star Frontiers listserv for almost a year now. (Collective gasps are uttered... mostly "There is a Star Frontiers list?" and "What the heck is Star Frontiers?") It was my first RPG, but I was also intriguied by D&D. I, too, was a member of the Star Frontiers list; I left that one, though, because I was joining the Alternity list, and one sci-fi RPG was enough (as was three mailing lists!) >So... let me lead off with some questions. I am new, so treat me as such please. Hey, people...he may be new to THIS list, but this guy's a pro; he was one of the head honchos on the Star Frontiers list, so treat him with the respect he deserves; he ain't no newbie! :-) >-Is this a primarily D&D or AD&D list for Mystara? And what is the difference anyway (the non obvious ones)? Both. If it's about Mystara, it's good. If it's about the D&D system, it's good. If it's only about AD&D (not Mystara-related), it's bad. >-Who is the "Leader" or "Keeper" of this list? (Just curious) Leroy, that would be you! Speak up, my man! >-How big is this list anyway? One person bigger than it was yesterday :-) Seriously, though, we rule! We're working on bringing Mystara back out of Limbo and back into print. There must be over 200 people on the list, but I don't have exact numbers. >Thank you in advance Mystaraians for your answers! I look forward to lots of good messages ahead! >Yazin >(Yes its a Character name) Welcome aboard, Yazin! Good to see a familiar face. BTW, does Pierre Savoie know about this list? I'm out of touch with him, but if you're still in contact, let him know about it, 'kay? Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #254 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 16:04:39 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #255 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Tuesday, April 28 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 255 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - SaveMystara Re: [MYSTARA] - SaveMystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Vanya in Alphatia [MYSTARA] - Clone question Re: [MYSTARA] - Hello Mystara! Re: [MYSTARA] - SaveMystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Clone question Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara [MYSTARA] - To the Yazirian from the Frontier Re: [MYSTARA] - Vanya in Alphatia Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) [MYSTARA] - ark maps Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Clone question Re: [MYSTARA] - Vanya in Alphatia ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 13:11:20 EDT From: M76762 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - SaveMystara In a message dated 98-04-28 08:52:17 EDT, you write: << Even so simple a message as "I like Mystara" is fine. But what we are really looking for is wisdom regarding how YOU would like TSR to revive Mystara. What role should the world play in or beyond the AD&D universe? What year do you want to see as the campaign norm? >> In my humble opinion... I think Mystara should be the D&D setting that it was originally intended to be. Its best in this setting, and the Gazateers are handy for fleshing it out. I am not familiar with the difference of AD&D Mystara however, and would be glad for someone to detail them to me. (Privately if you like) How is the AD&D Mystara setting anyway? Yazin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 13:15:38 EDT From: M76762 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - SaveMystara In a message dated 98-04-28 10:35:26 EDT, you write: << We only just started playing the AD&D boxed sets of Mystara which are far and away better than any other TSR box sets. If this is the product that is cancelled then there really is no hope for TSR in the long term, and their many many critics have been proven 100% right. >> Dragon #247 has a survey in it to identify stuff you want to see back in print. It is mainly modules, but I bet if you check all the D&D modules then they may get the message "Mystara rules". I don't have the AD&D Mystara boxed set. How is it? Yazin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 19:30:50 +0200 (METDST) From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Vanya in Alphatia Alex wrote: <> I would like to stop you here and point out a simple fact: in M1 we have not Alphatia vs Glantri, but PCs vs Alphaks, or if you want Alphaks vs alphatians (wherever they might live). In this case, Vanya is only opposing Alphaks' entropic influence and Koryis' peaceful intervention in the matter, and aids the PCs regardless of their nationality (she's not helping Alphatia, rather she's helping only "the brave hero" types). It is only a case that the PCs are working for the alphatian interests, and even in this case, it is not Alphatia properly that is threatened, but Norwold! So, as u can see, she's not taking Alphatia's side: rather she's following her code of conduct, helping the brave and self-sufficient characters (though i doubt she would have helped them during the Alphatia-Thyatis conflict..) << 2) the Asterius deal during Wrath. in it Asterius lost a temple or two to fire. these being in Alphatia and his being allied to Rad. And since Alphatia has been the adversary of Thyatis for so long, would it not be prudent that the patroness of conquest take a long hard look at her favorite folks' rival. Perhaps seeing something appealling in the hardcase Randel warriors. >> Frankly i've not understood this point. Could you explain me what you meant more clearly? Asterius, you see, is not a "politically involved" Immortal like Vanya: he is patron of communication and trade, and since these factors are required by all major nations if they want to survive, then it's logical to have Asterius' temples in Alphatia. However, i doubt Asterius has oredered his priests to go rampaging into Alphatia during WotI: he probably used them as ears and eyes to see what was going on in Alphatia, simply asking them to remain neutral once the war was issued. And if Vanya really had followers in Alphatia (a thing which i can accept: what i cannot accept is having Vanya's temples built and officially recognized and not ousted by alphatians -what instead happened with Ixion in Thyatis), they will have had a hard time during WotI, torn between their fealty to the Immortal and to their country. I don't think Vanya would have granted them spells if they acted against the heldannics or the thyatians, and you? <> This is the list of the Alphatian pantheon from DotE (Book 3: Alphatia): Alphaks* Alphatia Eiryndul** Koryis Rathanos Zirchev *Alphaks is secretly worshipped and officially banned **Eiryndul supported Rad during WotI, and his intervention caused many Shiye-Lawr elves to abstain from joining the Alphatian forces in the war, choosing exile to Norwold instead. Okay, i admit it's a little sketchy as a pantheon, so i'll give you my version (immortals are listed in order of importance after WotI). Razud (1) Ixion (2) Koryis (3) Alphatia (4) Terra Valerias Asterius Kagyar Palartarkan (5) Khoronus Rathanos Zirchev Djaea Petra Eiryndul Protius (6) 1) Razud is the oldest of Alphatian immortals, being a member of the Cypric race who became immortal BEFORE the alphatian conquest and assimilation of the Cypris. He was then worshipped by alphatians too, and he helped them escape the destruction of their planet, so he should be seen as the highest protector of Alphatia. For this reason, i think he's probably the best candidate for the role of Head Immortal of the pantheon 2) Ixion was Razud's sponsor, so it's believable that he was worshipped by at least the Cypris. Since the alphatians adopted the cult of Razud, i don't see why they shouldn't have adopted Ixion's faith as well. He is surely one of the most prominent figures in the alphatian pantheon, though since he MIGHT have been connected to the Followers of Fire he has never achieved the highest position. 3) Koryis is the second oldest alphatian immortal, but achieved immortality when Old Alphatia was destroyed, so he probably became important after the arrival of the alphatians on Mystara. I think he's as popular as Alphatia herself, since the two have a very similar attitude towards mankind and similar goals. 4) Alphatia is perhaps the youngest of alphatian immortals together with Palartarkan (though i think the latter is a bit younger). She has become a patroness of alphatians (both pure and common) only after their arrival on Mystara, and only after she built the city of Aasla and modeled the land around it (some 3,000-2,500 years ago). She COULD be the Head of the pantheon, mainly for her impartiality towards all classes of alphatian society, but i think this is unlikely, given the fact that there are other older and more famous Immortals. 5) Palartarkan is the wizard who created Floating Ar (his real name was Ar) and thus only a recent addition to the alphatian pantheon, as much as the other "Mystara related" immortals. Nevertheless, since he is specifically tied to alphatian wizards, i'd say he is in a way the alphatian version of Rad: not many clerics worship him, but many alphatian wizards (those who honor immortals) do. 6) Protius was probably much worshipped since Alphatia was a continent bordering the sea. Since now Alphatia has no more access to the seas Protius has lost many followers and importance. He could now be worshipped only as patron or waterways and water in general.. On this topic, i think there was one Immortal associated with each of the elements (and elemental factions) in Old Alphatia, and they probably were: Ixion (Fire), Terra (Earth), Razud (Air), Protius (Water). If this is the case, then Protius and Terra were really important in the alphatian pantheon, though now Protius has lost followers. Karaash and maybe Kurtulmak could be worshipped in Limn only (where humanoid have their rights) Forbidden Cults Alphaks Talitha Nyx Thanatos Demogorgon Masauwu Vanya IMHO, since Alphatia is a rather peaceful immortal, the one responsible for Alphatia's thirst for conquest is the fiery Ixion, who shall then be regarded as Patron of Just Rulership and of Conquest (alphatian might see conquest of inferior people as their right to rule them in order to help these people to achieve a more enlightened state). << In my description of Randel she is a minor Immortal in everyday life. In times of war, you see an increase of follwers (not clerics) and most noticably soldiers utter a silent prayer to Vanya to give them strength and prowness as they engage the enemy. There are at present three NPC clerics of Vanya and no established temples dedicated to her. >> uhmm.. this might seem more logical then, as long as there are no established temples dedicated to her (even though she could be substituted by Petra). However, what has Vanya to do with alphatian everyday life? DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 19:31:25 +0200 (METDST) From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Clone question Hi! That's my question of the day: with the Clone spell, what does it mean "human" and "non human"? I mean, it says that human and demi-humans are cloned normally (cost: 5,000 gp per HD), while non-humans are cloned as simulacri (500 gp per HD) who are controlled by the wizard. Now i ask you, does the "human and demi-human" term includes also "humanoid" like goblinoid races, rakastas, lupins and maybe alien humanoid races (like Emerondians or members of the Galactic Federation)? DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 13:38:40 EDT From: M76762 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Hello Mystara! In a message dated 98-04-28 12:55:20 EDT, you write: << Hey, Yazin! Good to see you again!>> Hey Glen.. I was rather hoping I would see a familiar ..er... face! >Hello All! >I am no stranger to listservs having been a member of the Star Frontiers listserv for almost a year now. (Collective gasps are uttered... mostly "There is a Star Frontiers list?" and "What the heck is Star Frontiers?") It >was my first RPG, but I was also intriguied by D&D. <> I can understand that. >So... let me lead off with some questions. I am new, so treat me as such please. <> Thanks Glen! But here I am a newbie. You all have MY respect for being here before me. (Which is not to say I won't challange some opinions.) >-Is this a primarily D&D or AD&D list for Mystara? And what is the difference >anyway (the non obvious ones)? <> Excellent! I am mainly D&D myself, but if the worlds are the same I can see how conversations can hit on both systems. << Seriously, though, we rule! We're working on bringing Mystara back out of Limbo and back into print. There must be over 200 people on the list, but I don't have exact numbers.>> Hmm that sounds familiar. That is precisely what the SF list has been trying to do. We have had the same problems you have... T$R cancelling our game. We have had one victory however (A Dragon article to convert SF to alternity rules). Mystara is an excellent setting though, and should be kept alive at all costs! (Well maybe not ALL costs) What is the best source of D&D Mystara info? Or maybe I should say.. what is the most complete? Is it a webpage, Boxed set, or book? Sorry I don't have much for you all now. But I will read up on my Mystara (assuming I can find a better source) and then I can speak intelligently. Yazin (If anyone want to read some of my Original SF.. then lemme know and I will point you that way) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 19:53:36 +0200 (METDST) From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - SaveMystara At 00.11 29/04/98 +1000, The Astronauts' Guild wrote: TT$R once again betray the ideals of the gaming community, Tut tut... not polite, pals, to write TSR that way. Remember for next time, okay? As long as we're on MPGN or any other ML associated with TSR and WotC it's politically incorrect to depict TSR as "an unscrupolous money grabbing society" as it is implied in that "$". >and it would be >far better for us to publish unofficial Mystaran scrolls true to the original spirit of the wonderful world of Mystara than let the Witches of the Crust dictate our dreams and gaming. Witches of the Crust, uh? I bet u can find something better... >We have all invested time, money and yes even our childhoods in Mystara and it is a betrayal for this product line, if you want to call it that, to be first bastardised and cannibalised for Forgettable Realms Oh my oh my! This is definitely something better! Forgettable Realms *lol* i'm laughing man, i'm laughing madly... ;) et al and >then just sidelined and shelved. Gaming has come a long way from its humble and cool roots, to the dizzying heights of corporatised sanitised pap in box sets for zombies. We keep hoping its all some Dero plot. A derro plot, you mean... Well, if anybody wanst to read a good story that metaphorically refers to TSR's doings with one of its worlds, Spelljammer, presented in a very good fictional way, read Chronicles of the Eternal Wanderer! >We only just started playing the AD&D boxed sets of Mystara which are far and away better than any other TSR box sets. If this is the product that is cancelled then there really is no hope for TSR in the long term, and their many many critics have been proven 100% right. And the OD&D were far better than the AD&D boxed sets! Mystara is still vital, believe me, and the 550+ messages on the TSR boards prove it! PS: gekoes friends, hope your letter was not a so called "Flame thrower"... DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 14:06:13 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Clone question At 07:31 PM 4/28/98 +0200, you wrote: >Hi! >That's my question of the day: >with the Clone spell, what does it mean "human" and "non human"? I mean, it says that human and demi-humans are cloned normally (cost: 5,000 gp per HD), while non-humans are cloned as simulacri (500 gp per HD) who are controlled by the wizard. Now i ask you, does the "human and demi-human" term includes also "humanoid" like goblinoid races, rakastas, lupins and maybe alien humanoid races (like Emerondians or members of the Galactic Federation)? I think it is a difference only in terms of "possible use". In fact, imc there are two seperate spells "Clone" and "Simulacrum". Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 16:04:39 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #255 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 18:44:18 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara >My players, mostly familiar with AD&D, have asked me about psionics in Mystara. My own idea, which has not been fully revealed imc, is that the Alphatians prevent psionics whenever they can. While Glantrians try to squash clerical power, the Alphatians are aware of powers far beyond the scope of the Glantrians. They are aware of the power and danger of psionic >monsters and seek to keep Mystara "clean" of that power. Interesting idea. You see, IMC its only the Savage Coast that has psionics (call it an effect of the Red Curse if you will), and then only rarely - usually aranea academics in Herath. I said the same thing about wild magic (I thought that was very appropriate for an effect like the Red Curse, especially with Inheritors trying to study it - the wild mage Inheritor has been born!). The Alphatians could well be the cause of the KW not getting psionics. After all, the Alphatian race is naturally adept at magic - psionically it is just a level playing field after all. And all the psionic beasties out there (githyanki is what I'm thinking of) is a good reason for Alphatia to Keep Them Out. Perhaps there is a secret Alphatian Centre for Mind Powers, or something like that.. (Men in Black, anyone?). Protecting Mystara from the scum of the universe... I told you Alphatia was like the USA! Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 17:52:50 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: [MYSTARA] - To the Yazirian from the Frontier >I am no stranger to listservs having been a member of the Star Frontiers listserv for almost a year now. (Collective gasps are uttered... mostly "There is a Star Frontiers list?" and "What the heck is Star Frontiers?") It >was my first RPG, but I was also intriguied by D&D. Star Frontiers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There is a SF mailing list!!!!!!! Where???? (I'm there, dude...) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 14:38:37 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Vanya in Alphatia Say, someone tell me quick, what is it Rathanos does??? At 07:30 PM 4/28/98 +0200, you wrote: >Alex wrote: ><> >I would like to stop you here and point out a simple fact: in M1 we have not Alphatia vs Glantri, but PCs vs Alphaks, or if you want Alphaks vs alphatians (wherever they might live). In this case, Vanya is only opposing Alphaks' entropic influence and Koryis' peaceful intervention in the matter, and aids the PCs regardless of their nationality (she's not helping Alphatia, rather she's helping only "the brave hero" types). It is only a case that the PCs are working for the alphatian interests, and even in this case, it is not Alphatia properly that is threatened, but Norwold! So, as u can see, she's not taking Alphatia's side: rather she's following her code of conduct, helping the brave and self-sufficient characters (though i doubt she would have helped them during the Alphatia-Thyatis conflict..) ><< 2) the Asterius deal during Wrath. in it Asterius lost a temple or two to fire. these being in Alphatia and his being allied to Rad. And since Alphatia has been the adversary of Thyatis for so long, would it not be prudent that the patroness of conquest take a long hard look at her favorite folks' rival. Perhaps seeing something appealling in the hardcase Randel warriors. >> >Frankly i've not understood this point. Could you explain me what you meant more clearly? >Asterius, you see, is not a "politically involved" Immortal like Vanya: he is patron of communication and trade, and since these factors are required by all major nations if they want to survive, then it's logical to have Asterius' temples in Alphatia. However, i doubt Asterius has oredered his priests to go rampaging into Alphatia during WotI: he probably used them as ears and eyes to see what was going on in Alphatia, simply asking them to remain neutral once the war was issued. >And if Vanya really had followers in Alphatia (a thing which i can accept: what i cannot accept is having Vanya's temples built and officially recognized and not ousted by alphatians -what instead happened with Ixion in Thyatis), they will have had a hard time during WotI, torn between their fealty to the Immortal and to their country. I don't think Vanya would have granted them spells if they acted against the heldannics or the thyatians, and you? ><> >This is the list of the Alphatian pantheon from DotE (Book 3: Alphatia): Alphaks* >Alphatia >Eiryndul** >Koryis >Rathanos >Zirchev >*Alphaks is secretly worshipped and officially banned >**Eiryndul supported Rad during WotI, and his intervention caused many Shiye-Lawr elves to abstain from joining the Alphatian forces in the war, choosing exile to Norwold instead. >Okay, i admit it's a little sketchy as a pantheon, so i'll give you my version (immortals are listed in order of importance after WotI). >Razud (1) >Ixion (2) >Koryis (3) >Alphatia (4) >Terra >Valerias >Asterius >Kagyar >Palartarkan (5) >Khoronus >Rathanos >Zirchev >Djaea >Petra >Eiryndul >Protius (6) >1) Razud is the oldest of Alphatian immortals, being a member of the Cypric race who became immortal BEFORE the alphatian conquest and assimilation of the Cypris. He was then worshipped by alphatians too, and he helped them escape the destruction of their planet, so he should be seen as the highest protector of Alphatia. For this reason, i think he's probably the best candidate for the role of Head Immortal of the pantheon 2) Ixion was Razud's sponsor, so it's believable that he was worshipped by at least the Cypris. Since the alphatians adopted the cult of Razud, i don't see why they shouldn't have adopted Ixion's faith as well. He is surely one of the most prominent figures in the alphatian pantheon, though since he MIGHT have been connected to the Followers of Fire he has never achieved the highest position. >3) Koryis is the second oldest alphatian immortal, but achieved immortality when Old Alphatia was destroyed, so he probably became important after the arrival of the alphatians on Mystara. I think he's as popular as Alphatia herself, since the two have a very similar attitude towards mankind and similar goals. >4) Alphatia is perhaps the youngest of alphatian immortals together with Palartarkan (though i think the latter is a bit younger). She has become a patroness of alphatians (both pure and common) only after their arrival on Mystara, and only after she built the city of Aasla and modeled the land around it (some 3,000-2,500 years ago). She COULD be the Head of the pantheon, mainly for her impartiality towards all classes of alphatian society, but i think this is unlikely, given the fact that there are other older and more famous Immortals. >5) Palartarkan is the wizard who created Floating Ar (his real name was Ar) and thus only a recent addition to the alphatian pantheon, as much as the other "Mystara related" immortals. Nevertheless, since he is specifically tied to alphatian wizards, i'd say he is in a way the alphatian version of Rad: not many clerics worship him, but many alphatian wizards (those who honor immortals) do. >6) Protius was probably much worshipped since Alphatia was a continent bordering the sea. Since now Alphatia has no more access to the seas Protius has lost many followers and importance. He could now be worshipped only as patron or waterways and water in general.. >On this topic, i think there was one Immortal associated with each of the elements (and elemental factions) in Old Alphatia, and they probably were: Ixion (Fire), Terra (Earth), Razud (Air), Protius (Water). If this is the case, then Protius and Terra were really important in the alphatian pantheon, though now Protius has lost followers. Karaash and maybe Kurtulmak could be worshipped in Limn only (where humanoid have their rights) >Forbidden Cults >Alphaks >Talitha >Nyx >Thanatos >Demogorgon >Masauwu >Vanya >IMHO, since Alphatia is a rather peaceful immortal, the one responsible for Alphatia's thirst for conquest is the fiery Ixion, who shall then be regarded as Patron of Just Rulership and of Conquest (alphatian might see conquest of inferior people as their right to rule them in order to help these people to achieve a more enlightened state). ><< In my description of Randel she is a minor Immortal in everyday life. In times of war, you see an increase of follwers (not clerics) and most noticably soldiers utter a silent prayer to Vanya to give them strength and prowness as they engage the enemy. There are at present three NPC clerics of Vanya and no established temples dedicated to her. >> >uhmm.. this might seem more logical then, as long as there are no established temples dedicated to her (even though she could be substituted by Petra). However, what has Vanya to do with alphatian everyday life? >DM >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 15:30:15 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) << I don't see the military application of these Speak-with spells, The plants (e.g.) cannot do anything. The same for Quest, Neutr. Poison, ... >> O.k., Quest and Neutralize Poison are mor appropiate for mililtary intelligence tasks, but speak with plants can prove useful. The cleric can ask the plant for anything and the plant could do it. It's a powerful spell, which reaches far beyond simple talking, but I have to admit, that my old master blasted this spell everytime my cleric used it. The plants talked but they talked to themselves and not to my cleric. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 15:50:34 EDT From: Dleggend Subject: [MYSTARA] - ark maps Anybody have ark maps: 172, 183, 188? My links in my page to the princess ark maps are down and when I checked by maps in order to upload them again I found that these three maps where damaged. So if some one could send them to me I would appreciate it. Thanks Dleggend@aol.com Enter Dleggend's Page http://members.aol.com/dleggend/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 15:45:53 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara You know...who is it...DM? Someone was suggesting an x-files like Mystara adventure series... At 06:44 PM 4/28/98 +0100, Robert Fry wrote: MMMy players, mostly familiar with AD&D, have asked me about psionics in Mystara. My own idea, which has not been fully revealed imc, is that the Alphatians prevent psionics whenever they can. While Glantrians try to squash clerical power, the Alphatians are aware of powers far beyond the scope of the Glantrians. They are aware of the power and danger of ppsionic >>monsters and seek to keep Mystara "clean" of that power. >Interesting idea. You see, IMC its only the Savage Coast that has psionics (call it an effect of the Red Curse if you will), and then only rarely - usually aranea academics in Herath. I said the same thing about wild magic (I thought that was very appropriate for an effect like the Red Curse, especially with Inheritors trying to study it - the wild mage Inheritor has been born!). >The Alphatians could well be the cause of the KW not getting psionics. After all, the Alphatian race is naturally adept at magic - psionically it is just a level playing field after all. And all the psionic beasties out there (githyanki is what I'm thinking of) is a good reason for Alphatia to Keep Them Out. Perhaps there is a secret Alphatian Centre for Mind Powers, or something like that.. (Men in Black, anyone?). >Protecting Mystara from the scum of the universe... >I told you Alphatia was like the USA! >Cheerz >ROB >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 16:03:37 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Clone question << That's my question of the day: with the Clone spell, what does it mean "human" and "non human"? I mean, it says that human and demi-humans are cloned normally (cost: 5,000 gp per HD), while non-humans are cloned as simulacri (500 gp per HD) who are controlled by the wizard. Now i ask you, does the "human and demi-human" term includes also "humanoid" like goblinoid races, rakastas, lupins and maybe alien humanoid races (like Emerondians or members of the Galactic Federation)? >> Probably you have to decide it IYC. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 16:03:38 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Vanya in Alphatia << Asterius, you see, is not a "politically involved" Immortal like Vanya: he is patron of communication and trade, and since these factors are required by all major nations if they want to survive, then it's logical to have Asterius' temples in Alphatia. However, i doubt Asterius has oredered his priests to go rampaging into Alphatia during WotI: he probably used them as ears and eyes to see what was going on in Alphatia, simply asking them to remain neutral once the war was issued. >> As I see it, the clerics of Asterius served as ears and eyes. Otherwise they did their normal job, which means for members of the army that they fought against Glantri, Thyatis and Heldann. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #255 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, April 29 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 256 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - SaveMystara Re: [MYSTARA] - ark maps Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) Re: [MYSTARA] - Clone question Re: [MYSTARA] - Clone question Re: [MYSTARA] - Hello Mystara! Re: [MYSTARA] - Hello Mystara! Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Hello Mystara! Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Alchemists Guilds Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Clone question Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara [MYSTARA] - Spell Applications Re: [MYSTARA] - Hello Mystara! Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara [MYSTARA] - OD&D mailing list Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D mailing list Re: [MYSTARA] - Vanya in Alphatia Re: [MYSTARA] - Vanya in Alphatia [MYSTARA] - DA modules [MYSTARA] - Heldannic Campaign Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D mailing list Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 16:17:32 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - SaveMystara On Tue, 28 Apr 1998, DM wrote: >society" as it is implied in that "$". True 'nuff. Now that WotC has taken over, T$R is NOT the same as it once was. Thus TSR. >Witches of the Crust, uh? I bet u can find something better... Sounds like a 5B casting cost black creature.. Woah.. wrong list ;) On the subject of a Mystara re-release, I hope the powers the be do take into account all the work that has been done in the net by the fans. Personally I'd like to see AC1014 really published :) Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 16:28:22 EDT From: Dleggend Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - ark maps I only need 172 and 183. Most of the links are back up. Thanks DLeggend@aol.com http://members.aol.com/dleggend/ Enter Dleggend's Page *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 17:15:37 EDT From: Duncan TKD Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) Use Speake with animals, and speack with plants as a way to gain information about an enemy. Cast quest on the leader of an army and let him lead the army for you. Hmm. I don't have a use for Neutralize poinson other than neutralizing poison. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 17:50:35 -0400 From: Ron Murphy Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Clone question I would read "human" as "humanoid", as in the general body shape (two arms, two legs, upright walking position). Thus, if a creature has an unusual body configuration, such as four legs, or extra limbs, it would be non-human. Ron DM wrote: >Hi! >That's my question of the day: >with the Clone spell, what does it mean "human" and "non human"? I mean, it says that human and demi-humans are cloned normally (cost: 5,000 gp per HD), while non-humans are cloned as simulacri (500 gp per HD) who are controlled by the wizard. Now i ask you, does the "human and demi-human" term includes also "humanoid" like goblinoid races, rakastas, lupins and maybe alien humanoid races (like Emerondians or members of the Galactic Federation)? >DM >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 19:34:07 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Clone question On Tue, 28 Apr 1998, Ron Murphy wrote: >I would read "human" as "humanoid", as in the general body shape (two arms, two legs, upright walking position). Thus, if a creature has an unusual body configuration, such as four legs, or extra limbs, it would be non-human. I'd consider "human" to be "sentient" I mean, if you cloned a dragon, wouldn't he or she know that his/her clone existed too, and it wouldn't be a simulacrum? It just seems correct to say that if the creature has some modicum of sentience, then the clone spell creates a clone not a simulacrum. But lesser creatures, like ants, or even dogs, wouldn't be cloned. IMC, I have always made the clone spell so rare that this question has never been brought up really. I do like the splitting of the spell into simulacrum and clone idea that someone mentioned though. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 19:05:01 -0500 From: anowack@juno.com (Aaron E Nowack) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Hello Mystara! On Tue, 28 Apr 1998 02:01:27 EDT M76762 writes: >Now I don't game too much anymore, but I have enjoyed reading all my old >supplements in my spare time (sound familiar?). Hmm..my case is exactly the opposite. I spent years reading RPG stuff, and now I've finnaly got some victims^H^H^H^H^H^H^H players. >So... let me lead off with some questions. I am new, so treat me as such >please. >-Is this a primarily D&D or AD&D list for Mystara? And what is the difference >anyway (the non obvious ones)? Both AD&D and D&D Mystara are supported, however this list also serves as a forum for discussion of the D&D game system. >-Who is the "Leader" or "Keeper" of this list? (Just curious) Leroy Van Camp. >-Does anyone have any of those cool PC/NPC & Item generators.... for D&D (not >AD&D)? Well not me. >-How big is this list anyway? Bigger than it was yesterday. :) >-How many Mystara sites are there out there? (Shameless plug time) And which >of em are D&D (as opposed to AD&D)? Lots and lots of them! In fact more than any other gaming wold I've checked out sites for (at least sites I can find). If your interested in the Sea Peoples or looking for rules for mass aerial combat check out my site (see my sig). From there you can find links to DM's site and Shawn's site, and between those two pages you can find just about anything about Mystara on the web. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 20:25:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Hello Mystara! Glen Sprigg pontificated: >>I am no stranger to listservs having been a member of the Star Frontiers listserv for almost a year now. (Collective gasps are uttered... mostly "There is a Star Frontiers list?" and "What the heck is Star Frontiers?") It was my first RPG, but I was also intriguied by D&D. >I, too, was a member of the Star Frontiers list; I left that one, though, because I was joining the Alternity list, and one sci-fi RPG was enough (as was three mailing lists!) Never realized (or expected) that SF has a list. Come to think of it, SF share quite a bit of similarity with Mystara. Both started out with generic looking world with most cliche of the repected genre thrown together without much though, but both grown out of that into much richer campaign setting, then both got canned by TSR when they shown so much potential... >Seriously, though, we rule! We're working on bringing Mystara back out of Limbo and back into print. There must be over 200 people on the list, but I don't have exact numbers. I don't think we are that big yet. I seems to remember Leroy said that we had 95 people about a year ago. It seems like we got quite a few new members lately, but I'm not sure we hit 200 yet. Perhaps we can get Leroy to post when this list achieves certain "mile stones". Like 200th member, every 1000th messages (if there are way to keep track of those things), etc. - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | UVa, Material Science Dept. |"Earth is too small and fragile a basket IPM Lab | for Mankind to keep all his eggs in." (804) 984-3789 | -- Robert Anson Heinlein *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 21:09:56 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara << Actually, I'm using a standard definition of Psionics as defined in non RPG books on the subject. The only "complete handbook" I own is the Elves one, so I don't have the background on Psi that one may expect. However, since I don't deal with Psi anyway, this arguement is moot. Also we're considering Mystara here. Are AD&D Complete Handbooks really valid in this setting? Sure Mystara is now AD&D officially, but how many of us still convert back to oD&D? >> If you haven't read any material on psyonics then you don't know how they are used in the game. You should look into them before making a decision like that. Plus, of course the handbooks are valid. There's no reason as to why they wouldn't be. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 20:35:26 -0600 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Hello Mystara! Glen Sprigg meandered fecklessly... >>-Is this a primarily D&D or AD&D list for Mystara? And what is the difference >>anyway (the non obvious ones)? >Both. If it's about Mystara, it's good. If it's about the D&D system, it's >good. If it's only about AD&D (not Mystara-related), it's bad. Words of wisdom, Glen. Summed up nicely. There is a FAQ for the list available at the MML homepage at... http://www.lesbois.com/members/malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html >>-Who is the "Leader" or "Keeper" of this list? (Just curious) >Leroy, that would be you! Speak up, my man! Actually, I prefer "Godhead", but administrator will work. >>-How big is this list anyway? >One person bigger than it was yesterday :-) And still growing! >Seriously, though, we rule! We're working on bringing Mystara back out of >Limbo and back into print. There must be over 200 people on the list, but I >don't have exact numbers. 224 people, as of this post. Not quite a billion served, but we're getting there. As a comparison, there are 395 people on the Realms list. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com ICQ #4253672 "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 22:36:00 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara On Tue, 28 Apr 1998, Inconu wrote: >used in the game. You should look into them before making a decision like that. Plus, of course the handbooks are valid. There's no reason as to why they wouldn't be. Well, I wouldn't say they are ALL valid. To bolster this point I refer to the Complete Elves Handbook, which seems very incompatible with the whole elven story on Mystara. Mystaran elves were purely Ordana's creation ( I beleive. [Correct me if I am wrong all you "Elves of Alfheim" owners], not the result of some "perfect race" creation war), are naturally magical creatures (thus the automatic spells), they dabbled in extremely high technology for a time, and they live peacefully with humans (or at least some races do ;) The elves in the handbook are portrayed as Xenophobic purists with a superiority complex, trying to get away from the "lesser" races, (in the Forgettable Realms campaign at least) or sequestering themselves to their own self righteous enclaves. But then again, to stave off a massive display of magical pyrotechnics, I will say that this is all IMC. I reject Psi, and almost all AD&D rules, you may not. Personal opinion is the key here. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 22:59:17 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alchemists Guilds In a message dated 98-04-25 07:15:08 EDT, rmunch@easynet.co.uk writes: >I think Alchemists would be bound by very tight rules by the Alchemists GGuild. They are capable of making gold!!! This sort of thing has to be monitored by the Powers that Be. A group of wizards able to make (and sell) >expensive potions and turn rocks to diamonds is going to upset a lot of merchants. I'm sure Darokin would not be happy if they knew that a bunch of >Glantrian wizards were undermining their economy by producing several tons of platinum a month. (Alchemy is probably the most powerful circle in my opinion). There is one major control on this manufacture of gold and other precious metals -- approximately once every twenty times this is done, the Alchemist totally destroys his laboratory and is severely injured. That risk in itself should discourage Alchemists from using that ability too often. Also, note that there is a percentage chance for this ability to work at all -- 40% + 2% per level. That sort of uncertainty should certainly discourage transmutation on a scale likely to cause economic disruption. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 22:59:19 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara In a message dated 98-04-27 14:46:09 EDT, rmunch@easynet.co.uk writes: >Does anyone out there use the AD+D psionics rules in Mystara? (I know, its a D+D world...). I would be interested to know how/if others use them. Psionics appears to be known on the Savage Coast (lupins, rakasta and Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 07:51:29 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #256 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com >araneas(especially) can all be psionicists to quite high levels) - aranea can even be mage/psionicists. My inclination is to treat psionics as a peculiar manifestation of the Red Curse -- outside of the cursed areas of the Savage Coast, there are no psionicists or wild talents. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 23:41:26 EDT From: BoBo II Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Clone question I was looking at clone as I was doing some Armchair generaling and was very impressed by the possibilities of Simulacrumed creatures as Very Nasty wizard companions. Is there a limit to the number one can have? (aside form money, parts) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 23:47:46 EDT From: BoBo II Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara In a message dated 4/28/98 8:25:19 PM, you wrote: << Plus, of course the handbooks are valid. There's no reason as to why they wouldn't be. To each DM their own. I didn't like psionics too much in any of its forms, but may some day try an all psionics campaign (a la Dyrni.) Adding them to the mix of clerical and m-u magic always bugged me a little. I love the "Alphatians wiped 'em out" thread and might incorporate it somehow, btw. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 23:48:46 EDT From: Duncan TKD Subject: [MYSTARA] - Spell Applications Since we have been talking about war, and how spells might be used in them. What other applications of different spells might there be? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 23:42:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Hello Mystara! At 08:35 PM 4/28/98 -0600, you wrote: >Words of wisdom, Glen. Summed up nicely. I always had a way with words :-) >Actually, I prefer "Godhead", but administrator will work. How about 'Supreme Being?' No, wait...that's Bill Gates. Sorry. :-) Godhead it is. >224 people, as of this post. Not quite a billion served, but we're getting there. As a comparison, there are 395 people on the Realms list. Okay, so they've got more. But the Realms has been TSR's AD&D flagship since 1987(?), while Mystara's been ignored and trashed by TSR for about four years. Not to mention the fact that's Mystarans are naturally smarter, better looking, healthier, and nicer than those Realms types. And of course, it goes without saying, we're much cooler. So, as I said before, We Rule! And of course, Mystara Rules! Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 23:58:47 EDT From: Duncan TKD Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara In a message dated 98-04-28 21:25:18 EDT, you write: << Are AD&D Complete Handbooks really valid in this setting? Sure Mystara is now AD&D officially, but how many of us still convert back to oD&D? >> >> Why would they not be valid? If you have made the switch from OD&D to AD&D these sources can be very baluable. True some of the handbooks might be more useful than others, but I am sure that there is at least a little bit of useful info for even an OD&D game. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 00:04:25 EDT From: Duncan TKD Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara In a message dated 98-04-28 22:51:28 EDT, you write: << But then again, to stave off a massive display of magical pyrotechnics, I will say that this is all IMC. I reject Psi, and almost all AD&D rules, you may not. Personal opinion is the key here. >> Your right it all depends on your own point of view and your own personal oppinion. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 22:38:54 +0000 From: "Mike Harvey" Subject: [MYSTARA] - OD&D mailing list Has anyone considered creating a mailing list just for OD&D, from Basic through the Rules Cyclopedia? I realize that this list covers it, but am thinking that maybe a dedicated mailing list might just stimulate discussion (D&D posts tend to get buried under the deluge of Mystara material). I'd also like to hear about other D&D campaigns that are not set in Mystara. Opinions? Anyone interested in setting one up for a trial run? Mike - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bing@iccom.com (formerly mike@cs.pdx.edu) Mike Harvey HTTP://www.iccom.com/usrwww/bing/home.html Beaverton, Oregon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 02:20:31 EDT From: M76762 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D mailing list In a message dated 98-04-29 01:44:35 EDT, you write: << Has anyone considered creating a mailing list just for OD&D, from Basic through the Rules Cyclopedia? I realize that this list covers it, but am thinking that maybe a dedicated mailing list might just stimulate discussion (D&D posts tend to get buried under the deluge of Mystara material). I'd also like to hear about other D&D campaigns that are not set in Mystara. Opinions? Anyone interested in setting one up for a trial run?>> Though I am so new it is perhaps not my place to say...however... I would support such a venture. One cannot discern one from the other sometimes when speaking of D&D. I have also seen many sites which say D&D.. but are really AD&D, perhaps few respect the difference anymore (not including those of this list obviously). To my knowledge there is no Pure D&D list in existance... perhaps there should be. Yazin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 10:06:38 +0200 (METDST) From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Vanya in Alphatia At 16.03 28/04/98 EDT, JamugaKhan wrote: AAs I see it, the clerics of Asterius served as ears and eyes. Otherwise they did their normal job, which means for members of the army that they fought against Glantri, Thyatis and Heldann. Don't think Clerics of Asterius are "fighter types": they were probably employed in other ways if any of them were in the Alphatian Army.. I mean, others are more battle oriented than them (Ixion, Razud, even Alphatia to defend the nation!). DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 10:27:32 +0200 (METDST) From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Vanya in Alphatia At 14.38 28/04/98 -0400, Daly wrote: >Say, someone tell me quick, what is it Rathanos does??? What does Rathanos do? Is that your question?... Uhmm.. i'd say he's a utopist... He wants to turn everything and everyone into a superior form of energy. He's also associated to fiery temper and male dominance. And yes, it was me the one who proposed an X-Files campaign... glad somebody noticed it.. DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 10:50:43 +0200 From: Ezio Pignatelli Subject: [MYSTARA] - DA modules I own modules DA3 and DA4. I am looking for buying/scanning/photocopying/getting any information about DA1 and DA2... anyone out there? :) - -- Ezio Pignatelli - Dipartimento di Astronomia - Padova Tel: +39-49-8293459 - Fax: +39-49-8759840 mailto:epignat@leda.pd.astro.it http://leda.pd.astro.it/~epignat - -- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 11:13:09 +0200 From: Sune Kloppenborg Jeppesen Subject: [MYSTARA] - Heldannic Campaign Greetings fellow Mystarans I've been lurking around for some time now without contributing much to the list. I'm not playing in any campaign at the moment (except Aleksei's great PBeM) but I plan to start one in the summer. In that regard I would like to hear your opinions on my idea. Until now they are very general and not fleshed out into any great detail. I plan to run a campaign in the Heldannic Territories. The players will all be loyal Vanya believers and one will even be a paladin/knight of Vanya. In the start of the campaign I plan to let the players help consolidate the Knight's power in Heldann. It will be set some years before 1000 AC. The Heldannic Knights will not be portrayed as evil as in the cannon but as just another church on a crusade much like the Teutonic Order in RW. Later on there will be all kinds of trouble between Heldann and the neighboring countries especially Norwold. I know a couple of you are playing in Norwold and would appreciate any good ideas. Thanx Sune *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 06:56:59 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara << But then again, to stave off a massive display of magical pyrotechnics, I will say that this is all IMC. I reject Psi, and almost all AD&D rules, you may not. Personal opinion is the key here. >> You're right. This is all personal opinion. I just see all the D&D and AD&D rules as optional, and just take what works out fine IMC. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 07:07:38 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D mailing list << Though I am so new it is perhaps not my place to say...however... I would support such a venture. One cannot discern one from the other sometimes when speaking of D&D. I have also seen many sites which say D&D.. but are really AD&D, perhaps few respect the difference anymore (not including those of this list obviously). To my knowledge there is no Pure D&D list in existance... perhaps there should be. >> After being on the list for over a year, one of the most noteable things is that most of the players here seem to have a game which balences between D&D and AD&D. Whether they use only a few AD&D rules or use mostly AD&D rules, it seems like a pretty good mix to me. Since Mystara converted to AD&D, lots of players adapted and opened their minds to the possiblity of using the new system. Most found problems with it and kept some of the rules from OD&D. The newest players joined Mystara when it was in AD&D already. So, basically my overall point here is that I'm not against this mailing list idea, but i don't think you'll get the turnout that you're probably hoping for, but hey if you believe in it.......give it a try. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 07:46:21 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara At 09:09 PM 4/28/98 EDT, you wrote: ><< Actually, I'm using a standard definition of Psionics as defined in non RRPG books on the subject. The only "complete handbook" I own is the Elves one, so I don't have the background on Psi that one may expect. However, since I don't deal with Psi anyway, this arguement is moot. Also we're considering Mystara here. Are AD&D Complete Handbooks really valid in this setting? Sure Mystara is now AD&D officially, but how many of us still convert back to oD&D? >> >If you haven't read any material on psyonics then you don't know how they are used in the game. You should look into them before making a decision like that. Plus, of course the handbooks are valid. There's no reason as to why they wouldn't be. He had a valid question. It was basically "what is the difference between psionics and magic?" How, in terms of roleplay operation, do the practioners differ? Aren't they both bending natural and supernatural to their will? Perfectly valid question. Get your nose out of those books and think about a good answer. Personally, I don't have one. I think it is part of the problem with psionics and I understand those who do not like to use them. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 07:49:39 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara At 11:47 PM 4/28/98 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 4/28/98 8:25:19 PM, you wrote: ><< Plus, of course the handbooks are valid. There's no reason as to why they wouldn't be. >To each DM their own. >I didn't like psionics too much in any of its forms, but may some day try an all psionics campaign (a la Dyrni.) Adding them to the mix of clerical and m-u >magic always bugged me a little. >I love the "Alphatians wiped 'em out" thread and might incorporate it somehow, >btw. Thanks! *blushes with pride* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #256 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, April 29 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 257 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spell Applications Re: [MYSTARA] - Hello Mystara! Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Vanya in Alphatia Re: [MYSTARA] - Heldannic Campaign Re: [MYSTARA] - Heldannic Campaign Re: [MYSTARA] - Heldannic Campaign Re: [MYSTARA] - Spell Applications Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Spell Applications Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Spell Applications Re: [MYSTARA] - SaveMystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Alchemists Guilds Re: [MYSTARA] - Spell Applications [MYSTARA] - Tainted Sword Monster Question Re: [MYSTARA] - Ahem...Glantri, Ethengar, and others... Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - SaveMystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Ahem...Glantri, Ethengar, and others... Re: [MYSTARA] - Spell Applications Re: [MYSTARA] - Vanya in Alphatia Re: [MYSTARA] - I'm back Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 07:51:09 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spell Applications At 11:48 PM 4/28/98 EDT, you wrote: >Since we have been talking about war, and how spells might be used in them. What other applications of different spells might there be? Well, you could use Cause Disease to... Er, um, just kidding. What about the effects of Create Air on an open flame? Would it have any effect? Would it cause the fire to burn brighter? I think possibly not enough to cause extra damage, but perhaps useful in signaling... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 07:53:00 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Hello Mystara! At 11:42 PM 4/28/98 -0400, you wrote: >At 08:35 PM 4/28/98 -0600, you wrote: >>224 people, as of this post. Not quite a billion served, but we're getting there. As a comparison, there are 395 people on the Realms list. >Okay, so they've got more. But the Realms has been TSR's AD&D flagship since 1987(?), while Mystara's been ignored and trashed by TSR for about four years. Not to mention the fact that's Mystarans are naturally smarter, better looking, healthier, and nicer than those Realms types. And of course, it goes without saying, we're much cooler. So, as I said before, We Rule! But you know, I think that was his point. The fact that we are just short of a hundred people away...AND WE DON'T EVEN HAVE A SUPPORTED SETTING!!!!!!!!!!!!! Woohoo!!!!!!! Mystara Rules! All hail Alphatia! Ahem. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 07:56:04 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara At 11:58 PM 4/28/98 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 98-04-28 21:25:18 EDT, you write: ><< Are AD&D Complete Handbooks really >valid in this setting? Sure Mystara is now AD&D officially, but how many of us still convert back to oD&D? >> >> >Why would they not be valid? If you have made the switch from OD&D to AD&D these sources can be very baluable. True some of the handbooks might be more useful than others, but I am sure that there is at least a little bit of useful info for even an OD&D game. The fact that Mystara was developed under a game system that is strikingly different from AD&D, causes the setting to be a difficult one for incorporating all the AD&D rules. I am not saying it can't be done. But I would like to see a different approach. Incorporate rules that support the setting rather than trying to cram everything in. Besides, for 5000 years of Mystaran history there have been no psionics. An in game reason for the sudden appearance is better than a reality shift. Therefore, relegating the power to the Savage Coast, or forbidding it all together until the destruction of Alphatia, is preferable in my view. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 08:01:55 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Vanya in Alphatia At 10:27 AM 4/29/98 +0200, you wrote: >At 14.38 28/04/98 -0400, Daly wrote: >>Say, someone tell me quick, what is it Rathanos does??? >What does Rathanos do? Is that your question?... >Uhmm.. i'd say he's a utopist... He wants to turn everything and everyone into a superior form of energy. He's also associated to fiery temper and male dominance. This is pretty much what I wanted. But what can we sum him up to? He is the Immortal Patron of...? >And yes, it was me the one who proposed an X-Files campaign... glad somebody noticed it.. Whaddya think of the Alphatian coverup idea? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 08:03:36 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Heldannic Campaign At 11:13 AM 4/29/98 +0200, you wrote: >Greetings fellow Mystarans >I've been lurking around for some time now without contributing much to the list. >I'm not playing in any campaign at the moment (except Aleksei's great PBeM) but I plan to start one in the summer. In that regard I would like to hear your opinions on my idea. Until now they are very general and not fleshed out into any great detail. >I plan to run a campaign in the Heldannic Territories. The players will all be loyal Vanya believers and one will even be a paladin/knight of Vanya. In the start of the campaign I plan to let the players help consolidate the Knight's power in Heldann. It will be set some years before 1000 AC. The Heldannic Knights will not be portrayed as evil as in the cannon but as just another church on a crusade much like the Teutonic Order in RW. Later on there will be all kinds of trouble between Heldann and the neighboring countries especially Norwold. I know a couple of you are playing in Norwold and would appreciate any good ideas. Sounds great! I love moral dilemmas too! For instance, I have my player characters befriended by a Paladin of Vanya. He will later be one of the leaders in the assault on Oceansend, when the characters have to help defend the city... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 16:42:33 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Heldannic Campaign On Wed, 29 Apr 1998, Sune Kloppenborg Jeppesen wrote: >Greetings fellow Mystarans >I've been lurking around for some time now without contributing much to the list. >I'm not playing in any campaign at the moment (except Aleksei's great PBeM) but I plan to start one in the summer. In that regard I would like to hear your opinions on my idea. Until now they are very general and not fleshed out into any great detail. >I plan to run a campaign in the Heldannic Territories. The players will all be loyal Vanya believers and one will even be a paladin/knight of Vanya. In the start of the campaign I plan to let the players help consolidate the Knight's power in Heldann. It will be set some years before 1000 AC. The Heldannic Knights will not be portrayed as evil as in the cannon but as just another church on a crusade much like the Teutonic Order in RW. Later on there will be all kinds of trouble between Heldann and the neighboring countries especially Norwold. I know a couple of you are playing in Norwold and would appreciate any good ideas. Hi Sune! This sounds like a great idea for a campaign. Have you done any research on Teutonic knights? A friend of mine pointed out that the Heldannics seemed very similar to those, though I dont know enough about the Teutonics. If you come up with any information, and adaptions to Mystara I would very much like to see it. As for Knights campaigns, I am a player in a Knights campaign set in Loskalm in Glorantha, using the Pendragon game. If you are not familiar with Pendragon, I heartily recommend it. It contains much information about knights´ daily lives, duties and pasttimes. (Such as tournaments, romance, hunting, hawking, courtly life etc..) Anyways, if you get this campaign going, why dont you post some stuff about it on the list. Maybe we could make a Gazetteer or something out of it.... nuff said Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 11:38:02 EDT From: Duncan TKD Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Heldannic Campaign In a message dated 98-04-29 05:30:29 EDT, you write: << The Heldannic Knights will not be portrayed as evil as in the cannon but as just another church on a crusade much like the Teutonic Order in RW. >> Those that are the victors write history. Those that write history dictate what nation is evil. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 11:41:46 EDT From: Duncan TKD Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spell Applications In a message dated 98-04-29 08:12:09 EDT, you write: << I think possibly not enough to cause extra damage, but perhaps useful in signaling... >> or Spreading a fire. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 11:46:19 EDT From: Duncan TKD Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara What are psionics? If Clerical magic is a gift from the gods, and Wizard magic is studied and supernatural, perhaps psionic powers come from within oneself. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 11:49:31 EDT From: Duncan TKD Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spell Applications How about using magic missle against the ropes that hold together those pesky Catapults, or a modified lower powered magic missle (ie. one that does only one point of damage) to startle horses......ouch bug bite.. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 18:16:19 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara On Tue, 28 Apr 1998, Duncan TKD wrote: >In a message dated 98-04-28 21:25:18 EDT, you write: ><< Are AD&D Complete Handbooks really >valid in this setting? Sure Mystara is now AD&D officially, but how many of us still convert back to oD&D? >> >> >Why would they not be valid? If you have made the switch from OD&D to AD&D these sources can be very baluable. True some of the handbooks might be more useful than others, but I am sure that there is at least a little bit of useful info for even an OD&D game. I think it is important to distinguish between rules and setting information. Using AD&D does not mean that you have to use everything. The best rule is ofcourse to pick what you like, and throw the rest away. It might be a good idea to go through everything and throw away everything you dont like. Its been a common problem in the AD&D campaigns I´ve been involved with, is that the DM hasnt really known what he included or did not include.... As someone pointed out much of the info in Elves Handbook seems unsuitable to Mystara. I feel much the same way about Gnomes and Halflings, Dwarves and the Humanoids books. Some of the information may be used, but I personally feel that there are elements within those books that are not at all valid in my Mystara. I´ve been thinking about doing it myself, but if anyone has made a list of kits from the various handbooks and decided which kits suit in which country and which kits dont fit into mystara, I think that would be quite useful. Sorry about rambling away in my incohesive manner. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 12:19:20 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spell Applications In a message dated 98-04-29 12:05:18 EDT, you write: << How about using magic missle against the ropes that hold together those pesky Catapults, or a modified lower powered magic missle (ie. one that does only one point of damage) to startle horses......ouch bug bite.. >> IIRC Magic Missile cannot be used to single out an item. It is directed more towards the intended target. IMO this sucks as I think the idea of using it to disarm an opponent would be pretty good. But I guess that use is pretty out of bounds for a 1st level spell. Perhaps, a researched variant at a higher spell level that would allow picking out targets. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 12:57:31 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - SaveMystara >I am not familiar with the difference of AD&D Mystara however, and would be glad for someone to detail them to me. (Privately if you like) How is the >AD&D Mystara setting anyway? >Yazin OK - I'm ready to receive a mass slating.... I prefer Mystara with the AD+D rules... (there!) I didn't like 1st edition AD+D, as it was just an excuse to powerfame (cavaliers, psionics etc.) and stuck with D+D through that troubled time. But 2nd edition is much more balanced, and yet offers a depth that far exceeds D+D (I havnt got the Challenger series, only the REALLY old D+D boxes, so I may stand corrected). I was impressed with the AD+D boxes personally. The tendency seems to be for T$R to make worlds more powered and amped (I remember when Elminster was but a level 16 wiz - what is he now? 30, 40?). But with Mystara I was pleasantly surprised. Stefan Karameikos was only level 15, Jaggar is only 24 (not 40 or something equally ridiculous...). I think it preserves the old Mystara style exactly. I left Mystara on the back burner for quite a while, before I bought Red Steel (not knowing its official location). After much AD+D on the Coast I decided to try shifting the campaign to the KW for a bit - a few adventures like Saga of the Shadow Lord, Vengeance of Alphaks and Talons of Night later and I would say it was a success... And you can't get any more purist adventures than that... There is no reason why Mystara cannot be an AD+D world. AD+D offers so much more scope and character building possibilities. But the DM should be aware of how that scope can be used to powergame (in case you havnt noticed Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 15:05:49 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #257 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com I absolutely despise powergamers - the 15th level lot I'm running for have got to be the weakest high level party I have ever seen... lol) Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 13:00:35 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alchemists Guilds >There is one major control on this manufacture of gold and other precious metals -- approximately once every twenty times this is done, the Alchemist totally destroys his laboratory and is severely injured. That risk in itself >should discourage Alchemists from using that ability too often. Also, note that there is a percentage chance for this ability to work at all -- 40% + 2% >per level. That sort of uncertainty should certainly discourage transmutation >on a scale likely to cause economic disruption. Ah yes - the limiting factor. And when the lab blows up that proves expensive. But I think a profit can still be tendered, on average. And the ability can be used once per day. Appropriate defensive measures should limit the chance of GBH... Tho I admit, only a few nutters would probably try mass making of gold. I always wondered where the diamond dust used in vast quantities by spellcasters for material components came from... Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 12:52:06 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spell Applications At 12:19 PM 4/29/98 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 98-04-29 12:05:18 EDT, you write: ><< How about using magic missle against the ropes that hold together those pesky >Catapults, or a modified lower powered magic missle (ie. one that does only one point of damage) to startle horses......ouch bug bite.. >> >IIRC Magic Missile cannot be used to single out an item. It is directed more towards the intended target. IMO this sucks as I think the idea of using it to >disarm an opponent would be pretty good. But I guess that use is pretty out of >bounds for a 1st level spell. Perhaps, a researched variant at a higher spell level that would allow picking out targets. I could see this working if there was a "to hit" roll involved. Rather than the automatic hit that is present now. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 09:56:12 PDT From: "Buck Satan" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Tainted Sword Monster Question I was wondering if someone out there could help me with a question I've had for a while. If anyone on the list has good statistics for the monster called the "abeelat" in the D&D novel "The Tainted Sword", I'd really like to have them, I've checked all the net books, monster listings, everything, for a long time, and I've come up with nothing. Thanx! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 10:02:11 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ahem...Glantri, Ethengar, and others... >I have really enjoyed the "theoretical war" debate that has been raging. >Personally I still stand by the idea that neither can take complete victory >over the other so war between the two is highly unlikely without some exterior cause. >Now, what other countries are people interested in discussing? How about... >Vestland vs Ostland >Vestland may have decided that enough is enough. It is time to put an end >to the piracy along the north coast. And perhaps there is some thought to >increasing stabilization in the Yarldoms. It's possible if it was in 1000 a.c., if it was to happen after WOTI, it's very unlikely for me to think it possible. First of all, i think that Queen Yrsa at that time want to secure the throne for her eldest son Finn Hordson, and worked hard to insure peace all along the Northern Reaches, so that her son's reign would be a peaceful one. >Thyatis vs Karameikos >The emperor sees his country disintegrating and concludes a swift attack on >the former duchy may bring that area back under the empire's wing. Needed >revenues will flow, opening up the possibility of bringing other former colonies back. I believe you want a war between the WDL and a weakened Empire of Thyatis, first of all, the WDL's troop are battle ready for Hule's second attempt at conquering the Known World, they can use Thyatis as Practice if the Thyatian attempt to expand in the known world. >Heldann vs Norwold This one happened during 1010-1011 a.c., so far the Heldanns are content with going as far as Oceansend, because right now they are scared that they might have to race a retaliation by the Alphan, who happen to have the aid of the Dragons of the Wyrmsteeth Mountains, should they push further northwards. >Incidently, before I run the events of WotI, my campaign will have to go >through major changes. I am going to contrive to have all the current characters move on to other parts (Some back in time to Blackmoor, others >out in space in a joint expedition between Alphatia and Thyatis). Their >heirs will be approaching their coming of age when disaster strikes. Alak >Dool (now a lich) will come with a huge undead army and take the capital. why not have Alak take over the island from with the Shadow Dragons are from, where Synn came from. When Prince Heldamar last went there, he saw plenty of ruins, could be that those ruins are possible Blackmoorish in origin. >Any other countries that you can think of for adversarial roles? How about Eshu Vs. Nimmur, there's a huge history of hatred between the Man-Scorpion of Nimmur and the Winged Minotaur of Eshu. A Siege of Um-Shedu would make for an interesting campaign. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 17:52:01 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara ] - Psionics in Mystara >What are psionics? If Clerical magic is a gift from the gods, and Wizard magic is studied and supernatural, perhaps psionic powers come from within oneself. Well, thats exactly what the Complete Psionics handbook is. Mages use a magic that naturally permeates the multiverse, learning to control it through study and learning. Clerics use the same magic, but instead of manipulating it by study they are granted powers over it by their deity. Psionics does not use this external force at all - psionics is simply the ability to influence reality purely through the powers of the mind and body. It is supposed to be a very demanding art compared to magic (hence few psionicists, the fact that powers are not activated automatically but by a roll, and the fact that a psionicist generally has a lot less "staying power" than an equivalent level mage or cleric. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 13:17:21 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - SaveMystara On Wed, 29 Apr 1998, Robert Fry wrote: >OK - I'm ready to receive a mass slating.... I prefer Mystara with the AD+D rules... (there!) Nothing wrong with that :) >There is no reason why Mystara cannot be an AD+D world. AD+D offers so much more scope and character building possibilities. But the DM should be This really depends on your point of view. All the AD&D campaigns I have ever played have had more obnoxious rules and rolls and whatever, that it just seemed less fun. I prefer oD&D for the simple reason that it's almost completely idiot-proof, and provides more of a base set of rules that can be built upon, rather than being too comprehensive. Also, oD&D is very much tied into the Mystara Campaign World. One problem with oD&D is that it is a rules system that causes powergaming unless you have a very capable and observant DM. But as it was said before, you take what you like and throw the rest away. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 13:22:10 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ahem...Glantri, Ethengar, and others... At 10:02 AM 4/29/98 PDT, you wrote: >>Thyatis vs Karameikos >>The emperor sees his country disintegrating and concludes a swift aattack on >>the former duchy may bring that area back under the empire's wing. NNeeded >>revenues will flow, opening up the possibility of bringing other former colonies back. >I believe you want a war between the WDL and a weakened Empire of Thyatis, first of all, the WDL's troop are battle ready for Hule's second attempt at conquering the Known World, they can use Thyatis as Practice if the Thyatian attempt to expand in the known world. I can see it happening like this: The powerful Thyatian war machine makes a quick strike at Karameikos' coastal cities. They consolidate and move swiftly toward the center. After a time, even the military centers fall and rebels flee to the mountains. IF the rebels(read "pcs") can hold out enough, the Western Defense League (if you use them) will enter the fray to stabilize the area. But prior to that, I can see their action being delayed by diplomatic attempts to reconcile the situation... >>Heldann vs Norwold >>Incidently, before I run the events of WotI, my campaign will have to ggo >>through major changes. I am going to contrive to have all the current characters move on to other parts (Some back in time to Blackmoor, oothers >>out in space in a joint expedition between Alphatia and Thyatis). TTheir >>heirs will be approaching their coming of age when disaster strikes. AAlak >>Dool (now a lich) will come with a huge undead army and take the ccapital. >why not have Alak take over the island from with the Shadow Dragons are from, where Synn came from. When Prince Heldamar last went there, he saw plenty of ruins, could be that those ruins are possible Blackmoorish in origin. Hmm, maybe. But that island is REALLY far to the south... >>Any other countries that you can think of for adversarial roles? >How about Eshu Vs. Nimmur, there's a huge history of hatred between the Man-Scorpion of Nimmur and the Winged Minotaur of Eshu. A Siege of Um-Shedu would make for an interesting campaign. Yeah! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 12:43:44 -0500 (CDT) From: Stephen Dolan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spell Applications On Wed, 29 Apr 1998, Duncan TKD wrote: >How about using magic missle against the ropes that hold together those pesky Catapults, or a modified lower powered magic missle (ie. one that does only one point of damage) to startle horses......ouch bug bite.. *************************************************************************** As far as i know (I am a AD&D player..yah know) you cannot target inanimate objects with magic missle....but as for the horses :) that sounds like some fun :) STeve *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 14:42:49 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Vanya in Alphatia << Don't think Clerics of Asterius are "fighter types": they were probably employed in other ways if any of them were in the Alphatian Army.. I mean, others are more battle oriented than them (Ixion, Razud, even Alphatia to defend the nation!). DM >> You're right but as I see it a Mystaran cleric normally has a free choice how he earns his living. Look at these Thyatian military clerics or some Alphatian kings and queens. I'm sure that some clerics of Asterius served in the Alphatian army and navy, the most probably in the military intelligence service. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 11:54:38 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I'm back >Alex >and his two extra ribs Are you Sure you don't want us to call you ADAM, who knows. maybe an immortal would want that extra rib to make Claudia Schiffer. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 15:03:53 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara >>>Also we're considering Mystara here. Are AD&D Complete Handbooks really valid in this setting? Sure Mystara is now AD&D officially, but how many oooof us still convert back to oD&D? >> >>If you haven't read any material on psyonics then you don't know how they are >>used in the game. You should look into them before making a decision like that. Plus, of course the handbooks are valid. There's no reason as to why they wouldn't be. >He had a valid question. It was basically "what is the difference between psionics and magic?" How, in terms of roleplay operation, do the practioners differ? Aren't they both bending natural and supernatural to their will? Not really. He never asked any of those questions in his post. If you are talking about posts from the past, then i did already answer all of those questions, so you can just go back to your old mail to find the answers you're looking for. >Perfectly valid question. Get your nose out of those books and think about a good answer. Personally, I don't have one. I think it is part of the problem with psionics and I understand those who do not like to use them. Did i question the validity? No i didn't. I merely expressed how taking the info from a non-D&D source is obviously going to end up in misinterpetation. For example, he previously stated that magic and psyonics were identical other than the conduit in which the powers are passed through. I told him that in D&D they are have many more differences. Plus i don't feel the need to have to defend what I wrote to the list, so please email me privately if you have further comments like this. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #257 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Thursday, April 30 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 258 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Take a Chill Pill Re: [MYSTARA] - Take a Chill Pill Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Tainted Sword Monster Question [MYSTARA] - Psionics in mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Spell Applications Re: [MYSTARA] - Ahem...Glantri, Ethengar, and others... Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Negative Planar beasties... Re: [MYSTARA] - Tainted Sword Monster Question Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) Re: [MYSTARA] - Heldannic Campaign [MYSTARA] - info on pc with martal arts class PLEASE Re: [MYSTARA] - info on pc with martal arts class PLEASE Re: [MYSTARA] - info on pc with martal arts class PLEASE Re: [MYSTARA] - Tainted Sword Monster Question Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals [MYSTARA] - War-applications of Cleric-Spells (Was: Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh)) Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Spell Applications ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 15:12:17 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara >Besides, for 5000 years of Mystaran history there have been no psionics. An in game reason for the sudden appearance is better than a reality shift. Therefore, relegating the power to the Savage Coast, or forbidding it all together until the destruction of Alphatia, is preferable in my view. I agree here. IMC I've had a psionic history inserted (obviously non-canon), but the Alphatia idea does sound like a good excuse for those who wish to throw the class into their campaigns. Or even for those of you who don't know too much about the class....You could have a small amount of the psionics surface (as NPCs) try em out, and if you don't like them, you don't have to use them anymore. It would be much better than saying "There's a new country of psionics near the Known World" then the next day saying "Just forget about that last adventure guys". - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 15:13:49 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara << What are psionics? If Clerical magic is a gift from the gods, and Wizard magic is studied and supernatural, perhaps psionic powers come from within oneself. >> you're right... they do come from oneself. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 12:14:15 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Take a Chill Pill >If its really down to it, just imagine if Ethengar tried to invade Cimmaron County, or Herath, or Eshu? Now that would be clear cut - bye bye, >Ethengar... >> >Could Ethengar solve the logistic problems I don't see how Cimarron could stand against Ethengar. Jamuga, it getting tired about how you praise your mighty horde, your horde is small, compared to Wogar's horde, which have gone as far east as Greatrealm, Hule, or Queen Umbala's great horde of Gobliniods, who made it all the way to the tip of the Immortal's Arm, See Orc's of Thar Gazeeteer. First of all if you were to try Western expansion, first you would face an unforgiving desert, that has no civilization for over a 1000 miles between Baratkand and Slagovich, so your SOOL. next even if you make it to Azurun, Hule. you'd many of Hosadus's Legion of Doom, as well as his skyship armada. then you'd face the Baronies united Army with their wheellock pistols, Torreon Matchlock Cannons that they are building. I don't think Ethangar is in any position to say that they are THEE most powerful Army of All time. this coming from a US Army soldier. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 17:11:41 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Take a Chill Pill << Jamuga, it getting tired about how you praise your mighty horde, your horde is small, compared to Wogar's horde, which have gone as far east as Greatrealm, Hule, or Queen Umbala's great horde of Gobliniods, who made it all the way to the tip of the Immortal's Arm, See Orc's of Thar Gazeeteer. First of all if you were to try Western expansion, first you would face an unforgiving desert, that has no civilization for over a 1000 miles between Baratkand and Slagovich, so your SOOL. next even if you make it to Azurun, Hule. you'd many of Hosadus's Legion of Doom, as well as his skyship armada. then you'd face the Baronies united Army with their wheellock pistols, Torreon Matchlock Cannons that they are building. I don't think Ethangar is in any position to say that they are THEE most powerful Army of All time. this coming from a US Army soldier. >> This mail was definitely unnecessary! I never stated that Ethengar is the most powerful army Mystara. You might even remember that I've worried about the small numbers. But as there are so many Glantri lovers who boasted about the military and so on strength of Glantri, at least one list member has to take the position of the defender of the Ethengars. I took this part! IMO some list members see the Ethengar as a primitive and not very civilized people. This is not true and I'm fighting for this opinion. And please understand that a Cimarron-Ethengar war is a completely hypothetical matter. Likewise I could say that the Israelian army would beat the Japanese, a situation that we probably will not see ever. And I assure you that your status as a US Army soldier doesn't impress me in any way. It has nothing to do with the MML. Jamuga Khan "The Mighty Khan was not amused." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 14:51:43 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals >In a message dated 98-04-24 18:35:54 EDT, JamugaKhan@aol.com writes: >>According to GAZ 3 Jaggar IS the Star Dragon! AAAccording to the Dragonlord trilogy some centuries ago Thelwynn was the Star Dragon. >>According to PWA'S and GKOM Jaggar IS NOT the Star Dragon! >There is an article in a back issue of Dragon magazine that explains these apparent contradictions. Apparently when Jaggar became a fifth circle Dracologist he figured out what was really going on and agreed to step down as the Star Dragon in exchange for friendlier relations with the dragon Immortals. This would mean that Thelvyn was either restored to power as the Star Dragon or destroyed by an earlier Lawful Dracologist of the fifth circle. Here's an idea for those of you who have never read the Immortal Codex, one of the optional rules is that the immortal in question can have as many avatars as his immortal level would happen to be. so the so-called Star Dragon, Diamond aka Thelvyn Foxeyes is a Diamond Dragon a vision of perfection that the gemstone dragons had hoped to but will never be. The Star Dragon is just another name, for a Unique Dragon just like Bahamut, Tiamat, or The Great One. only this ability is given to the head Dracologist, Jagger became Head Dracologist by Proxy because of his extensive study of Dracology. read GKOM. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 18:11:43 EDT From: Magesmiley Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tainted Sword Monster Question In a message dated 98-04-29 13:12:30 EDT, you write: << I was wondering if someone out there could help me with a question I've had for a while. If anyone on the list has good statistics for the monster called the "abeelat" in the D&D novel "The Tainted Sword", I'd really like to have them, I've checked all the net books, monster listings, everything, for a long time, and I've come up with nothing. Thanx! >> I seem to recall something from the Escape from Thunder Rift Insert which came with one of the Screens. Will have to look into it. It might have only been something on the Abelaat crystals though. - -Mage *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 18:28:54 EDT From: Duncan TKD Subject: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in mystara >From the Complete book of Psionics: >>NO natives of krynn exhibit any psionic potential whatsoever. What few psionicsts live on that world undoubtedly came from somewhere else or are the descendants of psionically-able ancestors who came from another world<< Maybe Mystar is like Krynn in this way. >>The first thing a psionicist learns is how to recognize internal energy. Everyone is filled with it, but most people are completely unaware or it<< So psionic power comes from within ones self; unlike clerican magic that comes from immortals, or Wizard magic that comes from who knows where. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 18:34:19 EDT From: Duncan TKD Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spell Applications A magic missle always hits its target. true. But where it hits its target is the question. Why not give the mage an attack roll to see if he can hit a specific part of what he is aimming at. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 18:38:01 EDT From: Duncan TKD Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ahem...Glantri, Ethengar, and others... hmmmm. What would happen if for some strange reason the Ethengar teammed up with the Shadow elves against Glantri. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 18:53:46 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals On Wed, 29 Apr 1998, George Valencia wrote: >Star Dragon is just another name, for a Unique Dragon just like Bahamut, Tiamat, or The Great One. only this ability is given to the head Dracologist, Jagger became Head Dracologist by Proxy because of his extensive study of Dracology. read GKOM. I'm confuzzled here. AFAIK, each dragon ruler is an actual dragon that has acheived immortality by defeating the current dragon immortal. Thus, if Jaggar defeated the Star dragon, he won the title, and became the immortal ruler of the Lawful dragons. He renounced that (maybe because he actually wansn't a dragon) and therefore became mortal again, and the previous Star dragon resumed his post. Now what i don't understand is this whole Jaggar is the star dragon thing. Diamond is the ultimate maifestation of the lawful dragons. His skin is pure diamond, and is nearly impossible to look at. (Thus the "Star Dragon" epithet) Diamond is the dragon's name, not his "racial type" (as inplied by the Master rulebook), read WotI. Jaggar can't just become the star dragon if he is mortal, Unless he actually didn't renounce the title, became the actual Diamond Dragon, and "Jaggar" is just the Avatar (or maybe mortal form of) Diamond, The Star Dragon. This ability isn't just "given out" No matter what KoM says. Just my 2 coppers. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 23:44:48 +0100 From: "alistairhall" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Negative Planar beasties... >><< if you wish to know about what a creature closest ttto representing the Negative Plane, try the entry on the Apodalypse in the Night of the Shark Module of the Monsterous Arcana. >> >Creatures from the Negative Material have just got to be (in my humble >opinion) the three Nightshades (nightcrawler, nightwing, and i forget the other one... lol). They are supposed to come from that plane, are made from >Negative Energy, and are Mystaran... (Alphaks seems to use them a lot). >ROB iirc the third was called a nightstalker not positive though, and don't have my rc handy. jobo *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 18:54:56 EDT From: Duncan TKD Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tainted Sword Monster Question In a message dated 98-04-29 18:27:47 EDT, you write: << I seem to recall something from the Escape from Thunder Rift Insert which came with one of the Screens. Will have to look into it. It might have only been something on the Abelaat crystals though. It was only about the crystals. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 18:56:33 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in mystara On Wed, 29 Apr 1998, Duncan TKD wrote: >from immortals, or Wizard magic that comes from who knows where. Wizard magic (IMC) Is the manipulation of the GUT (Grand Unification Theory [i.e HIGH energy]) forces by use of arcane rites and mental concentration. But then again, I'm a Physicist. :) Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 01:04:01 +0100 From: "alistairhall" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) >Okay...think big. A cleric of the Ethengar infiltrates Glantri and goes to >work on their cattle. He infects one living cow at a time...perhaps one cow per herd. Maybe he will trust that one cow to infect the rest of the herd. Suddenly the Glantrians wake up and find Mad Cow Disease rampant in >their country! and i thought it already was! with the amount of madness(eccentricities) already in glantri, they probably wouldn't notice. only kidding. jobo. mortus necromancer of the fifth circle.(sshhh! it's a secret!) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 18:30:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Matteo Turinetto Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 10:05:35 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #258 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Heldannic Campaign - ---Sune Kloppenborg Jeppesen wrote: >Greetings fellow Mystarans >I've been lurking around for some time now without contributing much to the >list. >I'm not playing in any campaign at the moment (except Aleksei's great PBeM) >but I plan to start one in the summer. In that regard I would like to hear >your opinions on my idea. Until now they are very general and not fleshed >out into any great detail. >I plan to run a campaign in the Heldannic Territories. The players will all >be loyal Vanya believers and one will even be a paladin/knight of Vanya. In >the start of the campaign I plan to let the players help consolidate the >Knight's power in Heldann. It will be set some years before 1000 AC. The >Heldannic Knights will not be portrayed as evil as in the cannon but as >just another church on a crusade much like the Teutonic Order in RW. Later >on there will be all kinds of trouble between Heldann and the neighboring >countries especially Norwold. I know a couple of you are playing in Norwold >and would appreciate any good ideas. >Thanx >Sune Hi ! What help can I give you for your campaign? Surely I can give you my own version of the fights beetwen Heldannic Knight and norwold because My players were Ericall's vassals and fought in many ways the Heldannic tide. Also, cause my group's cleric was a follower of Geoffrey of Gruntum I could give you some advice on the partisan war between Heldanner and Heldannic Knights. You can contact me on the list or on my own E-mail Eldor Lord of Western Norwold Granduchy *************************************************************************** TTo unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 00:37:20 -0500 From: John Normand Subject: [MYSTARA] - info on pc with martal arts class PLEASE does anybody have an example of a player charecter with the class as a martal arts fighter, but instead of the tradeitional sword, he uses kicks, punches, maybe add some sort of things like in the white wolf game "street fighter" but made for a ad&d game setting & campaine, if so PLEASE let me know, im very new to rpg games & would be very greatfull if some body has a character like this, or just an example on how to create this character, & if its not asking to much how you would run a campaine for this type of player *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 16:27:24 EST From: "Shawn Stanley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - info on pc with martal arts class PLEASE Hello John, welcome to the list I don't think I've seen you around here before. I hope you enjoy your stay on the MML and have as much fun with rpg games as I'm sure that most of us have. Well, as the welcome wagon trundles by it's time to answer your questions. I haven't played a martial arts type fighter myself personally but some articles that have been written on the MML previously about martial arts fighters are available at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/rules.html >From this page there are two pages which talk about some specific game mechanics for some martial arts fighting styles. Also the two files on the mystic class (who've been known to strike a mean kick) at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/clas_kit.html might also be of help. If you can't get access to these files just say so and I can send them to you. Apart from that I can't really recall much else being generated by this mailing list. >if its not asking to much how you would run a campaine for this type of player Nothing is ever too much. Again I've never run a campaign with this as a focus but I might suggest that pitting ther heroes who use this style of combat against opponents who tend to use this style of combat might be a place to start. That way you can be descriptive with the charcters you control as DM, what with their flying kicks and what-not, and this can enthuse the players to be as inventive with their characters. If you have access to a TV and more importantly to the TV shows Hercules and Xena I would recommend whatching the fight sequences in these two shows. They display a lot of combat that isn't weapon based that relies a lot on kicking, punching and basically a lot of what I consider to be combat-ballet. Of course these shows don't have an oriental flavour and so if that is what you're looking for they may not be the most help - although they may be a starting point for you with ideas on either what your characters can do, if your a player, or what your monsters/characters can do, if your the DM. Hopefully other people who've had more experience with either DMing or playing these sort of characters can give you a bit more help. By the way, which part of Mystara are you playing or running this campaign in. If you have no ideas in this direction that I could definitely help with suggestions in that direction. Especially since I think that location goes a long way to making a good campaign and if the D&D game world, Mystara, has anything going for it then it is location. So if you're playing a more sort of oriental campaign or perhaps a religious fighting order or just a campaign where more run-of-the-mill characters prefer to kick and head-butt rather than stab with yea old sword then Mystara has places for all these sort of things. Till later. The trouble is that things *never* get better, they just stay the same, only more so. - Terry Pratchett, Eric stan http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 18:20:05 +1000 From: "redfish" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - info on pc with martal arts class PLEASE Hello, I have recently been converting many weapons over from AD&D into The D&D weapon mastery system and i have tapped into the Martial arts whilst i was at it using the Rolemaster system as inspiration (one too many jackie chan movies i'm afraid) and if you want the info just email me at redfish@one.net.au, oh yeah if there are any gamers in the northside of brisbane , qld, australia givus a call, or if you want me to expain the stats more clearly just yell here is the stats for MA MA Defense BS _ _ A:-1AC/1 Dodge 1 {P=A} SK _ _ A:-2AC/2 Dod (2) + Dis (+1) EX _ _ A:-3AC/3 Dod (3) + Dis (+2) MS _ _ A:-4AC/4 Dod (4) + Dis (+4) GM _ _ A:-5AC/5 Dod (5) + Dis (+6) MA Sw & Thr BS _ 1d3 _ Delay {P=A} SK _ 1d4 +1 _ Delay + Stun + KO (-1) EX _ 1d6+1 _ Delay + Stun + KO (-2) MS _ 2d4+2 _ Delay + Stun + KO (-4) GM _ 2d6+2 _ Delay + Stun + KO (-6) MA Strike BS _ 1d4 _ Stun {P=A} SK _ 1d6 _ Stun + KO (-1) EX _ 2d4 _ Stun + KO (-2) MS _ 3d4 _ Stun + KO (-4) + DD ( 19-20) GM _ 4d4 _ Stun + KO (-6) + DD (18-20) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 13:02:38 +0200 (MET DST) From: Wolfgang Razen Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tainted Sword Monster Question >I was wondering if someone out there could help me with a question I've had for a while. If anyone on the list has good statistics for the monster called the "abeelat" in the D&D novel "The Tainted Sword", I'd really like to have them, I've checked all the net books, monster listings, everything, for a long time, and I've come up with nothing. Thanx! Try it with following: Hd 8, AC 6 (or 4), ATP: 3, Dam: W6, W6, W10(Bite) BITEattack: Savingthrow or loose all magic Abilities, gain Immunity vs. Magic Also Savingthrow to avoid shock If you survive this, an abelaat-stone will emerge at the wound which is an absolute neccessary spell-component to build rods of cancellations !! I encountered these Thingies with my highlevel mage and got in serious Trouble (these Monsters were immune to all known magics...) I have to ask my DM for the stats (he desiged them ;-)) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- shadow@POOL.informatik.rwth-aachen-de | If you flee, you only die tiered shadowelf@genesis.informatik.rwth-aachen.de | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 07:09:35 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals << Jaggar can't just become the star dragon if he is mortal, Unless he actually didn't renounce the title, became the actual Diamond Dragon, and "Jaggar" is just the Avatar (or maybe mortal form of) Diamond, The Star Dragon. >> Jaggar holds the fifth circle of Dracology. This allows him to take the form. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 13:32:06 +0200 (MET DST) From: Wolfgang Razen Subject: [MYSTARA] - War-applications of Cleric-Spells (Was: Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh)) (Yeah, Response of my mail, Yipiieeehh) O.K. I got some really interesing opinions of the usage of Speak with XX Spells. These were mainly recon info-gaining which can be easily spoiled by invis, Massmorph, Area-Phantasmal Force (I dont know the exact wording) a 4th grade guild MU Spell and the like. The pro is that the usage of scouting parties is severly reduced if at least one moderate-level cleric is accompying them. The usage of the standard curing abilities (HLW, CD, NP, ...) is not really affecting the effectivness of an army if not used by hordes of lvl2 clerics (1000 HLWs are affecting the effectivness...hehehe) About Sticks to snakes: This spell has a very limited range whick implies that the ongoing clerics have to join Melee. Good Luck. Hold Person, Fear (1st lvl), Quest and other personiffied target spells: Only effective when used to officers (who have better saving throws) Now the list of REALLY effective spells 1st: Earthquake. The destruction of 1 6th part of an army is really moraleshaking. If the army is sourrounded this spell is even more effective 2nd: Bless (yep the 2nd level spell) Bless affects (afaik) an area equal of a fireball. Rally the army around the standartes, let 100 clerics cast the bless and the guys will hit more often, do more damage and have a higher morale. 3rd: Animate Object Cast it on a siege engine (e.g. Tower or the like ) and you have your own temorary juggernought 4th: Insect plague (is especially effective vs mages or other spellusers) 5th: Creeping Doom. This is the ultimate spell but it is only in 5th place due to the avaibility of high-level druids... More inspiring usages of STANDARD cleric spell (like summon Animal) are highly welcomed Wolfgang - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- shadow@POOL.informatik.rwth-aachen-de | If you flee, you only die tiered shadowelf@genesis.informatik.rwth-aachen.de | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 09:00:47 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, Inconu wrote: >Jaggar holds the fifth circle of Dracology. This allows him to take the form. Good for him. Thus If I had a character in the 5th circle, he could take an *immortal* form too? I think not. I stand by my claim, though again, IMC is the word of the day. It seems rather stupid though that the immortals would allow a MORTAL to assume "at will" the manifestation form of one of their own. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 09:35:02 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals At 09:00 AM 4/30/98 -0400, you wrote: >On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, Inconu wrote: >>Jaggar holds the fifth circle of Dracology. This allows him to take the form. >Good for him. >Thus If I had a character in the 5th circle, he could take an *immortal* form too? >I think not. I stand by my claim, though again, IMC is the word of the day. It seems rather stupid though that the immortals would allow a MORTAL to assume "at will" the manifestation form of one of their own. The Immortals are quite annoyed about it, but are loathe to do anything about it. The powers of a high Dracologist are that he CAN assume the form of the Immortal dragon of his particular alignment. If he does, the current Immortal dragon immediately knows and seeks him out for a challenge. In other words, it is a life or death thing for the mortal. The Immortal dragon, if he loses, retires to an outer plane. This is what happened with Jaggar: He took the form of Star and won the challenge. The old Star retired and Jaggar became the Diamond Dragon for a time. But in learning just how much the good dragons despised him, he decided to bow down from the "position" of the Diamond Dragon and allow the true Immortal to resume his place. IMC I have no trouble with this. I don't foresee a pc being in such a position unless I want him to be. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 16:04:53 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spell Applications On Wed, 29 Apr 1998, Stephen Dolan wrote: >As far as i know (I am a AD&D player..yah know) you cannot target inanimate objects with magic missle....but as for the horses :) that sounds like some fun :) According to the complete fighters handbook you can target body parts and inanimate objects with magic missile. AD&D is becoming like Rolemaster. There is always a rule somewhere... Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #258 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Thursday, April 30 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 259 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v5.1 Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Spell Applications Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v5.1 Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 17:06:15 CEST From: "Herve Musseau" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v5.1 Mystara FAQ version 5.1 by Hervé Musseau Q: What is Mystara? A: Mystara is an imaginary world created by TSR as a campaign world for roleplaying games using the rules of Dungeons and Dragons. Q: What is a roleplaying game? A: Roleplaying games are games in which people play the role of imaginary fantastic characters like warriors or wizards and try to complete an adventure under the guidance of a game master. Q: I never heard of Mystara, but I know a setting called the Known World which looks pretty the same. What's the difference? A: Mystara got a name as a world only recently; before that, it was often referred to as the Known World, although Mystara is more than just the Known World. Q: So, what's Mystara? The Known World and what else? A: Mystara is basically composed of 2 main parts, the Outer World and the Hollow World, plus 2 moons, and some other exotic settings. Q: A Hollow World? A: Yes. Mystara, unlike our earth, is hollow, an empty sphere. It has an internal sun that lights the interior world, making it inhabitable. It holds old civilizations that are now extinct on the Outer World, placed there by the Immortals with strong magic preventing them from evolving much or dying away. The only entrances to the Hollow World are through underground passages between the two worlds, and through the holes that stand in place of the north and south poles. Q: And the Outer World? A: The Outer World is mostly like our Earth. It comprises: * the Known World (now called Old World), where the most civilized countries are located, * Alphatia (only before AC 1009), * the Savage Coast and Hule, * the southern continent, called Davania, * the eastern continent, called Skothar. Q: Why is Alphatia part of Mystara only up to AC 1009? A: Because Alphatia, which is a large continent east of the Known World, sank into the ocean in AC 1009, at the end of the major event called Wrath of the Immortals. It is now a floating continent located in the Hollow World. Q: What exactly is Wrath of the Immortals? A: Wrath of the Immortals (or WotI) is a great campaign that TSR published to update the Known World. It deals with the Great War that involves the major countries of Mystara and that was caused by the Immortals to obtain control of the Nucleus of the Spheres, a powerful artifact located under Glantri. At the end of the war, Alphatia sinks, Glantri and Thyatis have suffered dramatically from the conflict and three new powers enter the political scene of Mystara: the Heldannic Territories, the Hagiarchy of Hule and the "revamped" Kingdom of Karameikos. Q: On the continental map published in the Master DM's book, there are some empires I've never read anything about in other products and on the list, like the Empire of Dorphin IV or the Empire of the Great Khan. Do they exist? Where can I find information about these? A: The map in the Master set is wrong, wrong, wrong! In the series of articles written by Bruce Heard in Dragon Magazine, the first in the series (Dragon #153) explains this all. The map was the was released by a very imaginative Thyatian, and wrongly accepted for the truth. There is no Empire of Dorphin IV, no Empire of the Great Khan, etc. Also, as you probably guessed, the size of the Thyatian Empire was largely exagerated on this map... Q: I've already heard from the Known World, and from the Hollow World too, but never as Mystara. What does all this mean? A: This is because Mystara is a very old world, one of the oldest created by TSR, and, as TSR grew, so did Mystara. All of these product lines are revelant to Mystara: * Mystara, of course, * the Known World and most stuff that were made for D&D (as opposed to AD&D) like these old good modules B and X, or the Gazetteers, * the Hollow World, * Red Steel/the Savage Coast, * Blackmoor. Also, some products bearing the label First Quest are related to Mystara. Q: Blackmoor? I know a Blackmoor, but it's part of Greyhawk, isn't it? A: Blackmoor was, like Greyhawk, the campaign world of one of TSR's founder. It was later placed in both Greyhawk and the Known World (as a past kingdom in the later), effectively making two Blackmoors exist. It seems there is no further relation between the two Blackmoors, however, although some people made the assumption. Q: Where is it located? A: Blackmoor was a techno-magical kingdom that blew itself up a few millenia ago. The event shifted the planet's axis and Blackmoor is now the north pole. Sources are contradictory as to where Blackmoor stands; some place it on Brun, some on Skothar. Arguments in favor of Brun are the position of the Inn Between the Worlds and the Nucleus of the Sphere, and the fact that the Known World stands there; this is the solution proposed in some Gazetteers. Arguments in favor of Skothar are its sort of canonical status, and the feeling that all civilizations should not systamatically come from the Known World; this is the solution proposed in the Hollow World box. Note that, if you consider the Hollow World solution to be the truth in your campaign, the map in the box does have a typo : the names of Blackmoor and Thonia have been reversed (Blackmoor was north of the Empire of Thonia according to all other sources). Bruce Heard's opinion on this matter : << Blackmoor -- the travelling legend. If there were archaeologist on Mystara, they would have a devil of time figuring where the darn place was really located. Officially, it's supposed to be up there by the Thonian Marches. Unfortunately, conflicting info has crept into several products, getting in the way of the Thonian theory. The best thing is to assume evidence of Blackmoor's presence elsewhere is the result of later colonizations and outposts. Other communities were also magically displaced (such as a certain ancient tavern in the Broken Lands of the Known World). Definitely a messy development of the World of Mystara! :) >> So officially the answer is Skothar. Q: Ok, and now what's Red Steel? A: Red Steel is a setting that is part of Mystara (west of the Known World), although it was released as a stand-alone setting. Q: I have a player of the Church of Karameikos, and I whant to give him an Immortal, I suppose that it's a church with many Immortals (like the Greek / Latin church) but in Gaz 1 I dind't find any list of Inmortals... A: These are the immortals of the Church of Karameikos, as told by Bruce Heard in an old Dragon Magazine: Asterius (Eternal of Thought), Leader Kagyar (Eternal of Matter) Ilsundal (Hierarch of Thought) Valerias (Hierarch of Matter) Vanya (Empyreal of Time). Also, although Chardastes is a native Traladaran Immortal, he is venerated through the auspices of the Church of Karameikos, not the Church of Traladara. This is extrapolated from info in B1-9 In Search of Adventure. The Immortals of the Church of Traladara are: Halav Petra Zirchev. Q: You spoke of Immortals, what are they? Are they Gods? A: Mystara has a different pantheon when compared to other D&D settings. Most notably, it has no gods, but beings called Immortals. Immortals are mortals who, through their deeds, have reached a higher status granting them more power than mere mortals. Basically, however, Immortals are not very different from Gods of other settings. Q: Also you mentionned something about D&D not being AD&D. What does that mean? A: Mystara was the world designed to be used with the rules of D&D (often called OD&D to better distinct it from AD&D and from the generic term D&D which could mean both; OD&D stands for Old D&D or Original D&D). It appeared in the old boxed rules: the Expert box, the Companion box and the Master box. Most of the earlier modules designed for D&D were set in this world. Recently, however, Mystara has been converted to AD&D (along with Red Steel), but many people who play in Mystara do it with the old rules (or their reedition, Rules Cyclopedia). Q: When I read stuff about Mystara I keep seeing acronyms I cannot understand like WotI or PWA. What do they mean? A: There is a list of Mystara relevant acronyms at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/ Q: I heard that the Mystara line was cancelled. Is this true? A: It is unfortunately true. And Red Steel is cancelled too. Some novels pertaining to Mystara may be released as part of the First Quest line, and modules may be part of the Odyssey line. AFAIK, there is no such products in preparation however, though Wizards of the Coast (which bought TSR) has expressed its willingness to publish material for dead worlds, but never namely mentioned Mystara. Keep faith. Joshuan's Almanach was the last product of Mystara (to be precise the novel "The Black Vessel" has been released after, and to be even more precise it deals with the Savage Coast) and the Savages Baronies the last of Red Steel (except for online exclusives). Q: But I saw in TSR's 97 preview that there would be Red Steel modules released as online exclusive. What does this mean? A: TSR has released these modules for free on its site of MPGN at ftp://ftp.mpgn.com and http://www.tsrinc.com. Q: So, if TSR has dropped the line, how can I get new material for Mystara? A: There are many people on the web who love Mystara and have taken upon themselves to keep Mystara alive (and well alive). There is a mailing list dedicated to Mystara where people discuss together about it, exchanging ideas, points of view, and more. To subscribe, send e-mail to majordomo@mpgn.com. In the body, have the single line: subscribe Mystara-L . It has 224 people, as of end April. Not quite a billion served, but we're getting there. As a comparison, there are 395 people on the Realms list, TSR's flagship world (source : Leroy Van Camp, list admin). There are also the TSR message boards at http://tsronline.wizards.com:80/mb/system/addnewuser.shtml and, according to Jeff Daly and Bruce Heard, Mystara rules there, with our board being second only to the generic DM's board but far more active than any other world-specific board. There are also many pages around the net dedicated to Mystara, sometimes with lots of interesting materials. Some of these pages are organized into a Webring, check http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html for info about the Mystara webring. Now more than ever you should express your views on how Mystara should be brought back at http://cmnwrld.com/forumbin/SaveMystara/ or join the SaveMystara Writer's Group whose goal is to get as many adventures and articles to the periodicals as we can. Q: Where can I find the old messages of the Mystara mailing list? A: The digests are collected at ftp://ftp.mpgn.com/Gaming/ADND/Worlds/Mystara/MailingListArchive/ and the oldest ones (prior to 1998) can be found at ftp://ftp.io.com/pub/mailing-lists/mystara-digest/ However for your convenience the most interesting aricles the list has come up with are collected and sorted on Shawn's page at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/ Q: Where can I find a complete list of the material published for Mystara? A: The most complete lists to my knowledge is at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2304/prodlist.html It includes rulebooks and modules published by TSR, Mystara-relevant Judge Guild supplements, a list of various magazine #s that contain adventures, rules or world description pertaining to Mystara, novels, TSR net resources, and Clark Ashton Smith stories related to Averoigne. All of these are ranked according to compatibility with Mystara (explicit, implicit, compatible, etc.) and the type of product (campaign source, rules supplement, adventure, etc.). Q: And where can I buy those products? A: Since the Mystara line is out of print, it is difficult to find them. If you're lucky you can find them in any shop that sells RPG stuff, or buy second-hand books. Some places where you can find Mystara stuff on the web: http://www.dragontrove.com/listing.html http://www.titan-games.com/ http://www.rpgspot.com/main.htm http://members.aol.com/HitPointe/index.htm http://www.eskimo.com/~darkh/ http://www.ida.net/users/groverm/sleeping.dragon/sdh.html http://www.darkharbor.com/darkharbor.html http://www.djhobby.com/catalog/index.html http://www.sagesguild.com/ http://www.crazyegors.com/ the newsgroup rec.games.frp.marketplace. Q: Where can I find the FAQ for the Mystara mailing list? A: Check at http://www.io.com/~oryon/mmlfaq.htm. AFAIK there is no plain text version of this FAQ. _____________________________________________________________ Herve Musseau Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/ Almanac page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/9037/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 11:31:16 EDT From: Duncan TKD Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals But if Jagger is an avitar of Diamond how could Synn hope to gain control over him? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 11:31:39 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, Daly wrote: >IMC I have no trouble with this. I don't foresee a pc being in such a position unless I want him to be. Ahh. good. About time someone explains this fully. Thank you. However, this presents another problem. If a mortal is allowed to assume the manifestation form of an immortal by becoming extremely powerful, what does this mean for non-draconian immortals? I know it's not canon, but if it were possible for a high level Dracologist to become Diamond, then what about a high level cleric of Vanya to become Vanya? It all seems so hacked together. what makes the dragon immortals special that a mortal can assume their form? The only difference between the dragon immortals and normal immortals is that their heirarchy is determined by combat, and not one of the four paths. But I wonder this, is it possible for a dragon to become immortal without becoming a dragon ruler? Look at Ka. He's non-human, and came from a genetically close race to Dragons (A T Rex, if I remember correctly). Maybe the Draconian pantheon is completely seperate from the normal immortal pantheon. If so, If I had a dragon PC (hypothetically) He'd have 2 choices, become a regular immortal by working through MANY very tough adventures, or challenge a Dragon Ruler. Something to think about. If case 2 is actually what exists, then Jaggar's predicament makes MUCH more sense, otherwise if the Draconian Immortals are played by normal Immortal's rules, then Mortals assuming Manifestation forms could be VERY troubling to every Immortal, and would disrupt the whole scheme of becoming an immortal through trials and triumphs. (Even though we have some of those who didn't play by the rules.. Rad and Rafiel, as examples.) Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 11:52:54 EDT From: Duncan TKD Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spell Applications Let us see. What are some other usses for the DIg spell? Hmmmm...... Well you could use this spell to create a pit under neath a group. use it to collapse walls by casting it under the base of the wall. Oh and of course..Trench warfare. Sleep. True sleep wouldn't do much good on horses since the sleep standing up but what would happen to those pesky riders atop the horses. Also a hold monster spell cast on horses would make them immediatly stop...what would happen if these horses were going at full charge mode with mounted riders......Ouch. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 11:53:06 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v5.1 Woohoo! My name made it into the faq!!!!!!! At 05:06 PM 4/30/98 CEST, you wrote: >Mystara FAQ >version 5.1 by Hervé Musseau >Q: What is Mystara? >A: Mystara is an imaginary world created by TSR as a campaign world for roleplaying games using the rules of Dungeons and Dragons. >Q: What is a roleplaying game? >A: Roleplaying games are games in which people play the role of Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 12:09:39 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #259 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com >imaginary >fantastic characters like warriors or wizards and try to complete an adventure under the guidance of a game master. >Q: I never heard of Mystara, but I know a setting called the Known World which looks pretty the same. What's the difference? A: Mystara got a name as a world only recently; before that, it was often >referred to as the Known World, although Mystara is more than just the Known World. >Q: So, what's Mystara? The Known World and what else? A: Mystara is basically composed of 2 main parts, the Outer World and the >Hollow World, plus 2 moons, and some other exotic settings. >Q: A Hollow World? >A: Yes. Mystara, unlike our earth, is hollow, an empty sphere. It has an internal sun that lights the interior world, making it inhabitable. It holds old civilizations that are now extinct on the Outer World, placed there by the Immortals with strong magic preventing them from evolving much >or dying away. The only entrances to the Hollow World are through underground passages between the two worlds, and through the holes that stand in place of the north and south poles. >Q: And the Outer World? >A: The Outer World is mostly like our Earth. It comprises: >* the Known World (now called Old World), where the most civilized ccountries are located, >* Alphatia (only before AC 1009), >* the Savage Coast and Hule, >* the southern continent, called Davania, * the eastern continent, called Skothar. >Q: Why is Alphatia part of Mystara only up to AC 1009? A: Because Alphatia, which is a large continent east of the Known World, sank into the ocean in AC 1009, at the end of the major event called Wrath >of the Immortals. It is now a floating continent located in the Hollow World. >Q: What exactly is Wrath of the Immortals? A: Wrath of the Immortals (or WotI) is a great campaign that TSR published >to update the Known World. It deals with the Great War that involves the major countries of Mystara and that was caused by the Immortals to obtain >control of the Nucleus of the Spheres, a powerful artifact located under Glantri. At the end of the war, Alphatia sinks, Glantri and Thyatis have suffered dramatically from the conflict and three new powers enter the political scene of Mystara: the Heldannic Territories, the Hagiarchy of Hule and the "revamped" Kingdom of Karameikos. >Q: On the continental map published in the Master DM's book, there are some >empires I've never read anything about in other products and on the list, >like the Empire of Dorphin IV or the Empire of the Great Khan. Do they exist? Where can I find information about these? A: The map in the Master set is wrong, wrong, wrong! In the series of articles written by Bruce Heard in Dragon Magazine, the first in the series >(Dragon #153) explains this all. The map was the was released by a very imaginative Thyatian, and wrongly accepted for the truth. There is no Empire of Dorphin IV, no Empire of the Great Khan, etc. Also, as you probably guessed, the size of the Thyatian Empire was largely exagerated on >this map... >Q: I've already heard from the Known World, and from the Hollow World too, >but never as Mystara. What does all this mean? A: This is because Mystara is a very old world, one of the oldest created >by TSR, and, as TSR grew, so did Mystara. All of these product lines are revelant to Mystara: >* Mystara, of course, >* the Known World and most stuff that were made for D&D (as opposed to >AD&D) like these old good modules B and X, or the Gazetteers, * the Hollow World, >* Red Steel/the Savage Coast, >* Blackmoor. >Also, some products bearing the label First Quest are related to Mystara. >Q: Blackmoor? I know a Blackmoor, but it's part of Greyhawk, isn't it? A: Blackmoor was, like Greyhawk, the campaign world of one of TSR's founder. It was later placed in both Greyhawk and the Known World (as a past kingdom in the later), effectively making two Blackmoors exist. It seems there is no further relation between the two Blackmoors, however, although some people made the assumption. >Q: Where is it located? >A: Blackmoor was a techno-magical kingdom that blew itself up a few millenia ago. The event shifted the planet's axis and Blackmoor is now the >north pole. >Sources are contradictory as to where Blackmoor stands; some place it on Brun, some on Skothar. Arguments in favor of Brun are the position of the >Inn Between the Worlds and the Nucleus of the Sphere, and the fact that the >Known World stands there; this is the solution proposed in some Gazetteers. >Arguments in favor of Skothar are its sort of canonical status, and the feeling that all civilizations should not systamatically come from the Known World; this is the solution proposed in the Hollow World box. Note that, if you consider the Hollow World solution to be the truth in your campaign, the map in the box does have a typo : the names of Blackmoor and >Thonia have been reversed (Blackmoor was north of the Empire of Thonia according to all other sources). >Bruce Heard's opinion on this matter : ><< Blackmoor -- the travelling legend. If there were archaeologist on Mystara, they would have a devil of time figuring where the darn place was >really located. Officially, it's supposed to be up there by the Thonian Marches. Unfortunately, conflicting info has crept into several products, >getting in the way of the Thonian theory. The best thing is to assume evidence of Blackmoor's presence elsewhere is the result of later colonizations and outposts. Other communities were also magically displaced >(such as a certain ancient tavern in the Broken Lands of the Known World). >Definitely a messy development of the World of Mystara! :) >> So officially the answer is Skothar. >Q: Ok, and now what's Red Steel? >A: Red Steel is a setting that is part of Mystara (west of the Known World), although it was released as a stand-alone setting. >Q: I have a player of the Church of Karameikos, and I whant to give him an >Immortal, I suppose that it's a church with many Immortals (like the Greek >/ Latin church) but in Gaz 1 I dind't find any list of Inmortals... A: These are the immortals of the Church of Karameikos, as told by Bruce Heard in an old Dragon Magazine: >Asterius (Eternal of Thought), Leader >Kagyar (Eternal of Matter) >Ilsundal (Hierarch of Thought) >Valerias (Hierarch of Matter) >Vanya (Empyreal of Time). >Also, although Chardastes is a native Traladaran Immortal, he is venerated >through the auspices of the Church of Karameikos, not the Church of Traladara. This is extrapolated from info in B1-9 In Search of Adventure. >The Immortals of the Church of Traladara are: Halav >Petra >Zirchev. >Q: You spoke of Immortals, what are they? Are they Gods? A: Mystara has a different pantheon when compared to other D&D settings. Most notably, it has no gods, but beings called Immortals. Immortals are mortals who, through their deeds, have reached a higher status granting them more power than mere mortals. Basically, however, Immortals are not very different from Gods of other settings. >Q: Also you mentionned something about D&D not being AD&D. What does that >mean? >A: Mystara was the world designed to be used with the rules of D&D (often >called OD&D to better distinct it from AD&D and from the generic term D&D >which could mean both; OD&D stands for Old D&D or Original D&D). It appeared in the old boxed rules: the Expert box, the Companion box and >the Master box. Most of the earlier modules designed for D&D were set in this world. Recently, however, Mystara has been converted to AD&D (along with Red Steel), but many people who play in Mystara do it with the old rules (or their reedition, Rules Cyclopedia). >Q: When I read stuff about Mystara I keep seeing acronyms I cannot understand like WotI or PWA. What do they mean? A: There is a list of Mystara relevant acronyms at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/ >Q: I heard that the Mystara line was cancelled. Is this true? A: It is unfortunately true. And Red Steel is cancelled too. Some novels pertaining to Mystara may be released as part of the First Quest line, and >modules may be part of the Odyssey line. AFAIK, there is no such products >in preparation however, though Wizards of the Coast (which bought TSR) has >expressed its willingness to publish material for dead worlds, but never namely mentioned Mystara. Keep faith. >Joshuan's Almanach was the last product of Mystara (to be precise the novel >"The Black Vessel" has been released after, and to be even more precise it >deals with the Savage Coast) and the Savages Baronies the last of Red Steel >(except for online exclusives). >Q: But I saw in TSR's 97 preview that there would be Red Steel modules released as online exclusive. What does this mean? A: TSR has released these modules for free on its site of MPGN at ftp://ftp.mpgn.com and http://www.tsrinc.com. >Q: So, if TSR has dropped the line, how can I get new material for Mystara? >A: There are many people on the web who love Mystara and have taken upon themselves to keep Mystara alive (and well alive). There is a mailing list dedicated to Mystara where people discuss together >about it, exchanging ideas, points of view, and more. To subscribe, send e-mail to majordomo@mpgn.com. In the body, have the single line: subscribe >Mystara-L . It has 224 people, as of end April. Not quite a billion served, but >we're getting there. As a comparison, there are 395 people on the Realms >list, TSR's flagship world (source : Leroy Van Camp, list admin). There are also the TSR message boards at http://tsronline.wizards.com:80/mb/system/addnewuser.shtml and, according to Jeff Daly and Bruce Heard, Mystara rules there, with our board being second only to the generic DM's board but far more active than any other world-specific board. There are also many pages around the net dedicated to Mystara, sometimes with lots of interesting materials. Some of these pages are organized into a Webring, check >http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html for info about the Mystara webring. >Now more than ever you should express your views on how Mystara should be >brought back at >http://cmnwrld.com/forumbin/SaveMystara/ or join the SaveMystara Writer's Group whose goal is to get as many adventures and articles to the periodicals as we can. >Q: Where can I find the old messages of the Mystara mailing list? A: The digests are collected at >ftp://ftp.mpgn.com/Gaming/ADND/Worlds/Mystara/MailingListArchive/ and the oldest ones (prior to 1998) can be found at ftp://ftp.io.com/pub/mailing-lists/mystara-digest/ However for your convenience the most interesting aricles the list has come up with are collected and sorted on Shawn's page at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/ >Q: Where can I find a complete list of the material published for Mystara? >A: The most complete lists to my knowledge is at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2304/prodlist.html It includes rulebooks and modules published by TSR, Mystara-relevant Judge Guild >supplements, a list of various magazine #s that contain adventures, rules or world >description pertaining to Mystara, novels, TSR net resources, and Clark Ashton >Smith stories related to Averoigne. All of these are ranked according to compatibility with Mystara (explicit, implicit, compatible, etc.) and the type of >product (campaign source, rules supplement, adventure, etc.). >Q: And where can I buy those products? >A: Since the Mystara line is out of print, it is difficult to find them. If >you're lucky you can find them in any shop that sells RPG stuff, or buy second-hand books. Some places where you can find Mystara stuff on the web: >http://www.dragontrove.com/listing.html http://www.titan-games.com/ >http://www.rpgspot.com/main.htm >http://members.aol.com/HitPointe/index.htm http://www.eskimo.com/~darkh/ >http://www.ida.net/users/groverm/sleeping.dragon/sdh.html http://www.darkharbor.com/darkharbor.html http://www.djhobby.com/catalog/index.html http://www.sagesguild.com/ >http://www.crazyegors.com/ >the newsgroup rec.games.frp.marketplace. >Q: Where can I find the FAQ for the Mystara mailing list? A: Check at http://www.io.com/~oryon/mmlfaq.htm. AFAIK there is no plain text version of this FAQ. >_____________________________________________________________ Herve Musseau >Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/ Almanac page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/9037/ >______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 12:07:33 EDT From: Duncan TKD Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals >>But I wonder this, is it possible for a dragon to become immortal without becoming a dragon ruler? Look at Ka. He's non-human, and came from a genetically close race to Dragons (A T Rex, if I remember correctly). Maybe the Draconian pantheon is completely seperate from the normal immortal pantheon. If so, If I had a dragon PC (hypothetically) He'd have 2 choices, become a regular immortal by working through MANY very tough adventures, or challenge a Dragon Ruler. << Is not the queen of the night dragons, synn, an immortal? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 12:07:39 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals At 11:31 AM 4/30/98 -0400, you wrote: >On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, Daly wrote: >>IMC I have no trouble with this. I don't foresee a pc being in such a position unless I want him to be. >Ahh. good. About time someone explains this fully. Thank you. >However, this presents another problem. >If a mortal is allowed to assume the manifestation form of an immortal by becoming extremely powerful, what does this mean for non-draconian immortals? I know it's not canon, but if it were possible for a high level Dracologist to become Diamond, then what about a high level cleric of Vanya to become Vanya? Interesting idea. I don't think it would work. But it is an interesting idea... Hmm, now that I think about it though, isn't that too close to what happens with the gods of other settings? >It all seems so hacked together. what makes the dragon immortals special that a mortal can assume their form? The only difference between the dragon immortals and normal immortals is that their heirarchy is determined by combat, and not one of the four paths. Well, dragons are different. All dragons are, in fact, immortal. If they are killed, their essense goes to the Draconic Cluster and waits a few thousand years to be reincarnated. So the whole process is different for them. They predate mortals, even Immortals. They know things about the multiverse that the Immortals can only guess at. According to the gold box Immortals set, they are related to Draeden. The Draeden were a race of planet-sized creatures that tended to ignore Immortals but sometimes fought over living space. The Draeden and the dragons both predate Immortals. >But I wonder this, is it possible for a dragon to become immortal without becoming a dragon ruler? Look at Ka. He's non-human, and came from a genetically close race to Dragons (A T Rex, if I remember correctly). Maybe the Draconian pantheon is completely seperate from the normal immortal pantheon. If so, If I had a dragon PC (hypothetically) He'd have 2 choices, become a regular immortal by working through MANY very tough adventures, or challenge a Dragon Ruler. I don't think it is possible for a dragon to become Immortal by "normal" means. Also...I am not so sure dinosaurs are genetically close to dragons... >Something to think about. If case 2 is actually what exists, then Jaggar's predicament makes MUCH more sense, otherwise if the Draconian Immortals are played by normal Immortal's rules, then Mortals assuming Manifestation forms could be VERY troubling to every Immortal, and would disrupt the whole scheme of becoming an immortal through trials and triumphs. (Even though we have some of those who didn't play by the rules.. Rad and Rafiel, as examples.) Some interesting thoughts... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #259 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Thursday, April 30 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 260 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v5.1 Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v5.1 Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Ahem...Glantri, Ethengar, and others... Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Hello Mystara! Re: [MYSTARA] - Spell Applications Re: [MYSTARA] - Ahem...Glantri, Ethengar, and others... Re: [MYSTARA] - Spell Applications Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals [MYSTARA] - Clerics vs Magic-users Re: [MYSTARA] - info on pc with martal arts class PLEASE Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals [MYSTARA] - WWII [MYSTARA] - Weapon Mastery for AD&D ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 18:32:09 CEST From: "Herve Musseau" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v5.1 >Woohoo! My name made it into the faq!!!!!!! Do you have to quote the entire FAQ to say that? That's not the first time you (and you're not the only one) do that; quoting is fine when the quoted text is relevant and not too long, but in that case... _____________________________________________________________ Herve Musseau Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/ Almanac page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/9037/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 12:36:02 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v5.1 At 06:32 PM 4/30/98 CEST, you wrote: >>Woohoo! My name made it into the faq!!!!!!! >Do you have to quote the entire FAQ to say that? That's not the first time you (and you're not the only one) do that; quoting is fine when the quoted text is relevant and not too long, but in that case... > I'm sorry. I thought I had. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 12:43:16 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, Daly wrote: >multiverse that the Immortals can only guess at. According to the gold box Immortals set, they are related to Draeden. The Draeden were a race of Ahh, but if you could actually decipher the Gold Box, then you're pretty good. Most of that set was rather cryptic. (And supplanted by WotI rules) Plus, the connection between Draedens and Dragons seems rather Vague. (Other than that a mortal seeing a Draeden is struck with awe of the most powerful creature it has ever seen, maybe a dragon, or the Leviathan, or whatever. ) >over living space. The Draeden and the dragons both predate Immortals. This is debatable unless you still consider the gold box to be canon. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 18:52:46 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, Duncan TKD wrote: >Is not the queen of the night dragons, synn, an immortal? No. AFAIK She is just a greater Night Dragon. (D&D-wise) Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 12:56:13 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals At 12:43 PM 4/30/98 -0400, you wrote: >On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, Daly wrote: >>multiverse that the Immortals can only guess at. According to the gold box Immortals set, they are related to Draeden. The Draeden were a race of >Ahh, but if you could actually decipher the Gold Box, then you're pretty good. Why, thank you. Most of that set was rather cryptic. Not really. But we Mystarans do tend to be a little swifter than the average gamer of course... >(And supplanted by WotI rules) Only if you wish them to be. Besides, there is nothing in WotI to say that this is not the case. Know what I mean? There is nothing in WotI which directly contradicts the Draeden/dragon thing. >Plus, the connection between Draedens and Dragons seems rather Vague. (Other than that a mortal seeing a Draeden is struck with awe of the most powerful creature it has ever seen, maybe a dragon, or the Leviathan, or whatever. ) Not really. I mean, yes, the connection is what you make of it. I always got the picture that the Draeden and the dragons did not necessarily like each other. Or maybe, like and dislike are irrevelant to them. The main thing was having a couple of races beyond immortal ken... >>over living space. The Draeden and the dragons both predate Immortals. >This is debatable unless you still consider the gold box to be canon. Not debatable at all. Nothing in WotI contradicts it. And I always liked the explanation... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 19:12:49 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, SteelAngel wrote: >On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, Daly wrote: >>IMC I have no trouble with this. I don't foresee a pc being in such a position unless I want him to be. >Ahh. good. About time someone explains this fully. Thank you. >However, this presents another problem. >If a mortal is allowed to assume the manifestation form of an immortal by becoming extremely powerful, what does this mean for non-draconian immortals? I know it's not canon, but if it were possible for a high level >Dracologist to become Diamond, then what about a high level cleric of Vanya to become Vanya? >It all seems so hacked together. what makes the dragon immortals special that a mortal can assume their form? The only difference between the dragon immortals and normal immortals is that their heirarchy is determined by combat, and not one of the four paths. >But I wonder this, is it possible for a dragon to become immortal without becoming a dragon ruler? Look at Ka. He's non-human, and came from a genetically close race to Dragons (A T Rex, if I remember correctly). Maybe the Draconian pantheon is completely seperate from the normal immortal pantheon. If so, If I had a dragon PC (hypothetically) He'd have 2 choices, become a regular immortal by working through MANY very tough adventures, or challenge a Dragon Ruler. >Something to think about. If case 2 is actually what exists, then Jaggar's predicament makes MUCH more sense, otherwise if the Draconian Immortals are played by normal Immortal's rules, then Mortals assuming Manifestation forms could be VERY troubling to every Immortal, and would disrupt the whole scheme of becoming an immortal through trials and triumphs. (Even though we have some of those who didn't play by the rules.. Rad and Rafiel, as examples.) My opinion: As always what you think is coolest, should be applied to your campaign, but here is how I see this. The Craft of Drachology presented mages with a unique alternative path to immortality. Jaggar, being the grand master of Drachology, used this option. In order to become immortal, he had to challenge and defeat Diamond. He did so and became the Star Dragon, an Immortal. What happened to Diamond (thelvyn) is unknown. However, he realized that most dragons were unhappy about this, so he denounced his position and became a mortal again. Now,( a)Jaggar, either has the power to become an extremely powerful Gold Dragon, or (b) he can still become the Star Dragon (as described in D&D Cyclopedia, not the immortal form) I prefer option (b) and I think Bruce Heard suggested something simlar in another debate about this. You also suggested that a follower of Vanya could become Vanya. Ofcourse there is the difference in those cases that Drachologists are not followers of the Dragon Rulers. Rather they could be seen as enemies of Dragonkind. (although Jaggar is trying to change that) However, I think it would be cool to include something about –mmortals boosting the power of their champions. Maybe turning them into exalted servants or something. Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 13:24:48 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ahem...Glantri, Ethengar, and others... << hmmmm. What would happen if for some strange reason the Ethengar teammed up with the Shadow elves against Glantri. >> Probably really strange things... With my knowledge about Ethengar I must say that such an event is unlikely to happen. The same is true for the Shadow Elves. Do you agree to that, Fabrizio? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 13:40:29 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, Daly wrote: >average gamer of course... But of course :) (However classifying the planes in SI units was rather hard to get) >this is not the case. Know what I mean? There is nothing in WotI which directly contradicts the Draeden/dragon thing. True, but there is nothing to support it either. In fact WotI seems to support theory 2 a bit more, Gold box notwhithstanding. Anyway, Multiversal dynamics are the DM's call. I support theory 2 a bit more :) Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 13:53:13 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals At 01:40 PM 4/30/98 -0400, you wrote: >On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, Daly wrote: >>average gamer of course... >But of course :) (However classifying the planes in SI units was rather hard to get) >>this is not the case. Know what I mean? There is nothing in WotI which directly contradicts the Draeden/dragon thing. >True, but there is nothing to support it either. In fact WotI seems to support theory 2 a bit more, Gold box notwhithstanding. >Anyway, Multiversal dynamics are the DM's call. I support theory 2 a bit more :) I must have missed something. Could you tell me again what theory 1 and theory 2 are? Is there a theory 3? :) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 20:48:54 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Hello Mystara! >Okay, so they've got more. But the Realms has been TSR's AD&D flagship since 1987(?), while Mystara's been ignored and trashed by TSR for about four years. Not to mention the fact that's Mystarans are naturally smarter, >better looking, healthier, and nicer than those Realms types. And of Ahem. So what a fan of both Mystara and Realms would be like? :) ************ Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 14:01:32 EDT From: Duncan TKD Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spell Applications Ok now for some Cleical spells: Create Water: Usefull in putting out those fires caused by flamming arrows/bolts and flamming pitch from catapults. Protection from Evil: Cast this on the front line to increase their chances of liveing. Pass without trace: Excellent for scouts. Invisibility to animals: good to keep those pesky guard dogs out of your way. Animal Friendship: even better make the guard dog think your one of his masters party. Charm Person or Mamal: Cause horses to buck off their riders. Heat Metal: Makes it awfully uncomfortable for those charging knights. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 14:14:36 EDT From: Duncan TKD Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ahem...Glantri, Ethengar, and others... >>Probably really strange things... With my knowledge about Ethengar I must say that such an event is unlikely to happen. The same is true for the Shadow Elves. Do you agree to that, Fabrizio?<< I know it is an ulikely event that is why I used the "What if" statement for it. This is not a question of why they would get together it is a question of what could happen if they did. And by the way you still didn't answer my question. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 20:06:09 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spell Applications >AD&D is becoming like Rolemaster. There is always a rule somewhere... :) 1st edition AD+D got bogged down with rules (Unearthed Arcana, Survival Guides etc.). Then the mean, lean 2nd edition came out. Its happening all over again... Soon Witches of the Crust (I do like that term) will release a 3rd edition, and begin squeezing yet more cash from the proverbial stone... (As if they need to - I have seen Magic cards going for £50 each in shops - and suckers actually BUY them!!!! Geez - licence to print money or what!) Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 15:57:53 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #260 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 20:03:04 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals >However, I think it would be cool to include something about –mmortals boosting the power of their champions. Maybe turning them into exalted servants or something. Thats pretty much what I say. With the Heldannic Knight in my campaign, he wanted to know what kind of beastie could he gate in when he found it on a scroll. The poor DM (not used to highlevel AD+D magicks) suddenly realised that in AD+D a clerical gate summons up a powerful angel or something from their god (ie solars, aasimons etc.). A swift brainstorm later, and the Exalted form of an ancient Kerendan warrior from Milenian times appeared, ready to Kick Ass in the name of the Lord (Lady?)... IMC I use the piety point system out of an old dragon mag (Glantrians get circles, fighters get fighting styles, thieves get Secret Skills and priests get Piety Points IMC). When a priest accumulates 256 piety (a truly staggering amount) he is said to have Ascended - in AD+D he goes to his gods plane and lives there Happily Ever After. However, I say that their patron Immortal instead grants them with Exalted status (unless they wish to attempt becoming a full Immortal) and then act as the Immortals servants, in the same way as the demons and angels of AD+D... Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 15:25:20 -0400 From: Daly Subject: [MYSTARA] - Clerics vs Magic-users Forgive me for bringing this up, but whilst visiting the water closet, I thought of a new analogy for the cleric vs mage (what was once "Ethengar vs Glantri") debate. It is simply this: In our fantasy settings the greatest of mages would be compared with Merlin. The greatest of clerics would be compared with Moses. So as for spells and power, we are talking about plagues and natural devastation, along with the healing of course. These are not wimpy little guys who beg mages to leave them alone. They are extremely powerful, and scary sometimes. Now, I don't wish to take the Moses analogy too far. Out of respect for God and religion I don't believe in "game-izing" the Bible. But the analogy is a true one as far as it goes. And it does lend credence to my assertion about the power of Cause Disease and other spells... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 15:33:19 -0400 From: Ron Murphy Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - info on pc with martal arts class PLEASE If you are using 2nd edition AD&D, look at the Unarmed Combat section of the Player's Option: Combat and Tactics book. On page 95, it describes four styles of martial arts fighting (general descriptions, not actual martial arts). There are also nonweapon proficiencies which allow a martial artist to perform special moves like flying kicks, instant stands, etc.... Ron John Normand wrote: >does anybody have an example of a player charecter with the class as a martal arts fighter, but instead of the tradeitional sword, he uses kicks, punches, maybe add some sort of things like in the white wolf game "street fighter" but made for a ad&d game setting & campaine, if so PLEASE let me know, im very new to rpg games & would be very greatfull if some body has a character like this, or just an example on how to create this character, & if its not asking to much how you would run a campaine for this type of player >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 15:36:29 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, Daly wrote: >I must have missed something. Could you tell me again what theory 1 and theory 2 are? Is there a theory 3? Theory 1: Dragon Immortals = Regular Immortals, thus Mortals can assume manifestation forms of all immortals. Theory 2: Dragon Rulers != Regular Immortals, but are a seperate class, therefore Immortals retain their sanctity, and Dragon Rulers can be challeneged by Dracologists. Dragons can go the Immortal Path, or the Ruler path. This theory also hinges on the fact that Dragons are considered mortal creatures. This seems valid, since though many dragon forms are intelligent, there are a lot of dragons that aren't. DM's discretion as always. Max IV - I should change this. I'm talking way too scholarly to use my Fighter's name. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 15:50:07 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals At 03:36 PM 4/30/98 -0400, you wrote: >On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, Daly wrote: >>I must have missed something. Could you tell me again what theory 1 and theory 2 are? Is there a theory 3? >Theory 1: Dragon Immortals = Regular Immortals, thus Mortals can assume manifestation forms of all immortals. >Theory 2: Dragon Rulers != Regular Immortals, but are a seperate class, therefore Immortals retain their sanctity, and Dragon Rulers can be challeneged by Dracologists. Dragons can go the Immortal Path, or the Ruler path. >This theory also hinges on the fact that Dragons are considered mortal creatures. This seems valid, since though many dragon forms are intelligent, there are a lot of dragons that aren't. >From reading Dragon issue 170 http://www.tsr.com/periodicals/dragon/backissues/170jun91/170FromHatchlingTo .txt I get the definite idea that dragons CANNOT be regular Immortals. There can only be the 4 stations. Of course, the Old One's station does not change periodically like the 3 "lesser" stations. That's my understanding... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 14:53:41 -0500 From: "Vogt, Vincent N" Subject: [MYSTARA] - WWII I was sitting in class today thinking about all the talk about war on Mystara and this is my idea. Thysis is feeling that they need a quick and decisive victory to bring back the glory to the empire after the war with alphatia so they decide that they want Karamiekos back. So their generals decide to ally with The Master oh Hule and their plan is this: Thysis gas been contacted by the black eagle baron who claim that he has been quietly raising a humanoid army deep in the woods of his old barony. This is a stroke of luck for Thysis. The generals make contact with the Master of Hule to convince him to attack Darokin again. He is reluctant at first but when he finds out that Thysis has a plan to keep Karamiekos from sending troop and the Shires from sending much help he agrees. So, Thysis theorizes that their armies could take Karamiekos but the have the problem of the Shires sending in reinforcements before they have time to capture key cities. So the decide to co-ordinate their attack with the Master. Knowing that the Shires will do anything to keep the black eagle from attaining power again Thysis know that they will be send the majority of their troop that way. However they also know of the WDL and that The Shires will be required to send help to Darokin as well. This is where the Black Eagles army comes in. Thysis know that his army cannot defeat the Hin, but they do not need it to. All they need is for the Hin to be delayed long enough for Thysis can capture key points. Well that is the idea for now. I will think about it more and add to it or revise it later. Any comments on what you think would be helpful. Do you think this will work? Why or Why not (sound like an essay test)? So please tell me what you think. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 15:58:08 -0400 From: Ron Murphy Subject: [MYSTARA] - Weapon Mastery for AD&D Hello everyone... I'm trying an experiment here, one I'm sure has been tried by others...I want to transfer the wonderful Weapon Mastery charts over to 2nd ed. AD&D...so far, it has done wonders for my current campaign, especially when my PC's come across a fighter of expert level or above who can hold their own against them.... Anyway, here it is... Weapon Mastery Weapon Mastery is a character’s ability to use weapons with greater skill than the game normally allows. All characters, not just fighters, can learn to use weapon mastery. Weapon Choices When a new character is created, that characters receives a number of weapon proficiency slots as shown in the table below. Group Initial #Levels Nonproficiency Penalty Warrior 4 3 -2 Wizard 1 6 -5 Priest 2 4 -3 Rogue 2 4 -3 All characters must spend a slot (or more for higher levels of proficiency) for each weapon they wish to become familiar with. If that character uses a weapon that he is not proficient with, then the penalty listed above is tacked on to the attack roll. Spending the slots required on a weapon choice gives the character a basic understanding of how to use that weapon. There are six levels of mastery. Number of Weapon Level of Slots Spent Mastery 0 Unskilled 1 Basic 2 Skilled 3 Expert 5 Master 8 Grand Master At beginning levels, only warriors may choose to upgrade their level of mastery to skilled. Rogues, priests and mages must spend their weapon slots on separate weapons and must wait until gaining new weapon slots in order to become more skilled in a weapon. At first level, characters must use up all their proficiency slots. At higher levels, characters can save slots for a later use. Also, warriors may become more skilled in more than one weapon, while other character classes may gain a greater level of mastery in only one weapon. In general, the higher a character’s level of mastery with a weapon, the more damage he does with the weapon and the greater number of special results he can achieve with the weapon. At higher levels, it takes an additional slot (two total) to attain Master ranking in a weapon, and two additional slots (three total) to attain the ranking of Grand Master. Training To gain a higher level of mastery in a weapon, not only must the character spend the required weapon slot but he must be trained by someone who has equal or greater knowledge of that specific weapon. That someone could be another PC but it is usually a NPC teacher. After finding a trainer who will provide the necessary instruction, the student must pay all of the required costs before training can begin. The costs and time required for weapon training vary by the level of mastery sought (and by the teacher), and they are listed below. Level of Mastery Sought Time Required Cost Per Week Basic (new weapon) 1 week 100 gp Skilled 2 weeks 250 gp Expert 4 weeks 500 gp Master 8 weeks 750 gp Grand Master 12 weeks 1000 gp A student can train only to the next rank of ability above his own. During each training period, there is a chance of failing to achieve the next rank. His chances of success and failure vary by the mastery levels of himself and his trainer, as given in the chart below. From the character’s perspective, failure may occur because the trainer has insufficient knowledge or lacks the ability to train others or because the student cannot fully absorb the new information. Failure does not mean that the character has lost his weapon slot for that experience level. The slot is still there and it’s still dedicated to the weapon and level of mastery he has chosen for it. The student has lost the time and money he has spent, but he may spend more time and money until he succeeds. The chance of success is checked halfway through the training period, and the student is immediately informed of the results. (In the roleplaying situation, usually this consists of the teacher taking the student aside and telling him that he is not ready yet and that it is useless to continue.) The student may then either continue his training (despite the teacher’s recommendations) or stop his training. If the student continues to train, he may attempt to train with another teacher with a 10% bonus added to the success roll. If the student stops training, he will not lose the time involved and usually the teacher will refund half of the student’s payment. However, the student does not receive the 10% bonus for the next time he attempts to attain the next level of mastery. Student’s Trainer’s Knowledge Knowledge Basic Skilled Expert Master G. Master None 60% 80% 95% 99% 99% Basic 1% 50% 70% 90% 95% Skilled ------- 1% 40% 60% 80% Expert ------- -------- 1% 30% 50% Master ------- -------- --------- 1% 20% As noted in the table above, there is a small chance that a character may better himself by training with someone of equal ability. Grand Masters are difficult to find and very expensive to train with, so at higher levels, most characters tend to study multiple times with their peers in order to gain the 10% bonus (which is cumulative!). Skilled Weapon Use When using the weapon mastery rules, all weapons acquire new abilities and damage ranges. Those benefits include extra damage, attack roll bonuses (for fighters only), improved range with missiles and thrown weapons, ability to throw some hand-held weapons, bonuses to armor class and other special results (stunning, paralysis, entanglement, etc.) Another benefit for fighters only is one of multiple attacks. During a combat round, the fighter may choose to take multiple attacks if he is eligible. See the chart below. If the character chooses to use multiple attacks during the round, the damage is equal to the next lowest level of mastery. (Expert becomes Skilled, Skilled becomes Basic). Fighter Melee Light Heavy Thrown Thrown Other* Level Weapon X-bow X-bow Dagger Dart Missiles 1-6 3/2 1/1 1/2 3/1 4/1 3/2 7-12 2/1 3/2 1/1 4/1 5/1 2/1 13+ 5/2 2/1 3/2 5/1 6/1 5/2 *Non-bow Fighters who specialize in bow gain an additional range category instead of extra attacks: point blank range. Point blank range for Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 15:57:53 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #260 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com bows is from 6 to 30 feet. At point blank range, the character gains a +2 modifier on attack rolls. No additional damage is caused but Strength and magical damages apply. Furthermore, if the character has an arrow nocked and drawn, and has his target in sight, he can fire at the beginning of the round before any initiative rolls are made. Some benefits can occur only if the player announces that his character is deliberately using them (such as deflecting, disarming, etc.) The player must mention this before he rolls to hit. It is too late to mention it after the die has been cast. Attack and Defense Benefits Many damage increases vary with the type of opponent. Opponents that attack with two-handed missile fire devices have similar defenses to those that attack with natural body weaponry. This type of opponent is designated “M” (for Missile or Monster) on the Weapon Mastery Table. Defense is very different for opponents using hand-held weapons that are swung (such as swords and axes) or thrown (such as daggers and bolas) and opponents using missile-fire weapons that only need one hand (slings, short blowguns, hand crossbows). On the Weapon Mastery Table, these opponents are designated “H” (for Hand-held). If an opponent could fit into both categories (such as a wererat carrying a sword), the character attacking that opponent uses his weapon’s damage results that are most favorable to the opponent, not the attacker. However, if this type of opponent drops the weapon it holds, it immediately becomes category M for all calculations. Many weapons are better when attacking one or the other of these defense categories. On the Weapon Mastery Table, each weapon’s listing shows a primary opponent (the category of defensive against which the weapon is most effective) and a secondary listing (the other category, where the weapon is less effective). A few weapons are equally good against both target types; they bear the table notation (P = A) where A stands for all. Attack Roll Bonuses Characters with skilled or better weapon masteries receive bonuses to attack. Mastery Warrior Bonus All Others Unskilled no bonus no bonus Basic no bonus no bonus Skilled +1 no bonus Expert +2 +1 Master +3 +2 Grand Master +4 +3 Improved Range A character at skilled or better mastery with a ranged weapon can often fire or hurl it much farther than someone less accomplished. All notes on improved weapon ranges are listed with the individual weapon. Throwing Ability With Hand-to-Hand Weapons Weapon masters can throw some weapons that other characters can’t throw effectively. Masters of battle axes, clubs, war hammers, bastard swords, long swords, and short swords can throw these in combat starting at the Expert level of mastery. Ranges for these are given on the Weapon Mastery table. Despair All weapon masters can do amazing things with their weapons: they get “more performance” out of the weapons they’ve mastered. Most of these are described below, but one special result is common to all weapons used by Expert level characters: despair. A weapon master’s amazing ability with his weapon can cause despair and fear in the opponents that he is fighting. The targets must make a standard morale check. Opponents must be above animal intelligence to be affected. Targets that fail their morale rolls try to flee or surrender at their next opportunity. A roll for despair is triggered by the following circumstances: ***The weapon user inflicts maximum possible damage with his weapon, or rolls a natural 20. ***The weapon user avoids all damage in a round by deflecting the opponent’s blows (must be multiple opponents). ***The weapon user disarms two or more opponents in the same round. The DM may choose to check for despair during other special situations if he desires. The despair effect can only affect a certain number of enemies at a time. This varies with the character’s level of mastery. Despair only effects creatures up to 4 hit dice or levels. It always effects the lowest-level (or lowest-HD) enemies first. ***Expert--effects up to 6 hit dice or levels. ***Master--effects up to 12 hit dice or levels. ***Grand Master--effects up to 18 hit dice or levels. A weapon master can only use his despair ability once per fight. How to Read the Weapon Mastery Table The columns on the table provide the following information: Weapon: This column gives the weapon name and also the primary target (M, H, or A). LVL: This heading stands for “level of mastery”. Ranges: This column shows the weapon’s range when thrown or fired. Damage: This column shows the weapon’s damage for each new level of mastery. This column also has separate entries for “P” (primary) and “S” (secondary). Special Effects: The column summarizes the weapon’s special abilities. The specifics of those effects are listed below. Special Effect Descriptions ***Deflect: In addition to any attacks, the wielder of this weapon may attempt to deflect the number of melee and thrown weapon attacks indicated in one round. To deflect each attack, the character must make a saving throw vs. death ray. The roll to deflect must be made before the opponent makes his attack and is made on the opponent’s initiative phase. ***Delay: The victim hit by this weapon must make a saving throw or take a -3 penalty to initiative the following round. If the type of saving throw is not specified, it is vs. paralysis. For missile attacks, this effect only occurs at the indicated ranges. ***Disarm: The wielder of this weapon may attempt to disarm an opponent instead of making a regular attack. The attacker must roll to hit the target. The victim can save his weapon by making a Dexterity check at - -2. For each level of mastery beyond basic the attacker has gained, the victim suffers another -1 penalty. ***Double damage: On a natural roll of the number(s) indicated, the weapon inflicts double (rolled) damage. ***Entangle: An entangled victim cannot attack, cast spells, or move. The victim can make a save vs. death ray each round to escape. ***Hook: Instead of making a normal attack roll, the wielder of this weapon may attempt to hook and pull down a foe. The attacker must roll to hit. This causes the minimum amount of damage possible for the weapon; the victim must make a saving throw vs. paralysis or fall down. ***Knockout: If the victim fails his save, the victim is unconscious for 1d10 normal rounds. ***Skewer: If the target has no more than the number of hit dice indicated, the wielder may decide to skewer the target instead. A normal attack consists of striking the target and withdrawing the trident to strike again. With the skewer, the attacker thrusts his trident into the target and twists it so that it is not easily extracted. Once the weapon hits, it is stuck; it will remain stuck for 1d4+4 rounds, after which time the victim’s movements will cause it to come free. For each round a victim is skewered, he automatically takes 1d6 points of damage. ***Slow: The victim is slowed and can move and attack at only half normal movement rates. Spells with somatic or material components cannot be cast. ***Stun: If the victim is approximately the same size as the attacker or smaller, he is stunned if he fails a saving throw vs. death ray. The stunned character moves at 1/3 speed and cannot attack or use spells. The character has a +2 armor class penalty and a -2 saving throw penalty. A stunned character can make a saving throw vs. death ray each round to recover from the stun effect. For missile weapons, this effect occurs only at the specified ranges. Weapon Mastery Chart Weapon LVL Damage Special Effects _________________________________________________________ Blackjack BS 1d2 Knockout (P=H) SK 2d2 Knockout (save -1) EX 1d4+1 Knockout (save -2) MS P=1d4+3 Knockout (save -3) S=1d6+1 GM P=1d4+5 Knockout (save -4) S=1d6+2 _________________________________________________________ Halberd BS 1d10 Hook + disarm (P=H) SK 1d10+2 Hook (save -1) + disarm EX 1d10+5 Hook (save -2) + deflect (1) + disarm MS P=1d8+10 Hook (save -3) + deflect (1) + disarm S=1d8+8 GM P=1d8+15 Hook (save -4) + deflect (2) + disarm S=1d8+12 __________________________________________________________ Pike BS 1d8 ------- (P=H) SK 1d10+2 Deflect (1) EX 1d10+5 Deflect (1) MS P=1d12+8 Deflect (2) S=1d10+8 GM P=1d10+14 Deflect (2) S=1d8+10 __________________________________________________________ Quarterstaff BS 1d6 ------- (P=A) SK 1d6+2 Deflect (1) EX 1d8+2 Deflect (2) MS 1d8+5 Deflect (3) GM 1d8+7 Deflect (4) __________________________________________________________ Sword, BS 1d10 ------- Two-handed SK 2d6+1 Stun + deflect (1) (P=M) EX 2d8+2 Stun + deflect (2) MS P=3d6+3 Stun + deflect (2) S=2d8+3 GM P=3d6+6 Stun + deflect (3) S=3d6+2 __________________________________________________________ Whip BS 1d2 Entangle (P=M) SK 1d4 Entangle EX 1d4+1 Entangle MS P=1d4+3 Entangle S=1d3+2 GM P=1d4+5 Entangle S=1d3+3 __________________________________________________________ Hand-held Weapons Rarely Thrown Weapon LVL Ranges Damage Special Effect __________________________________________________________ Axe, Battle BS ----------- 1d8 ---------- (P=M) SK ----------- 1d8+2 Delay EX ---/5/10 1d8+4 Delay MS ---/5/10 P=1d8+8 Delay + Stun S=1d8+6 GM 5/10/15 P=1d10+10 Delay + Stun S=1d8+8 ____________________________________________________________ Club BS ---------- 1d6 ------------- (P=M) SK ---------- 1d6+2 Deflect (1) EX ---/15/25 1d6+5 Deflect (1) MS ---/15/25 P=1d8+5 Deflect (2) S=1d6+4 GM 10/25/40 P=1d8+8 Deflect (2) S=1d6+6 ____________________________________________________________ War Hammer BS ----------- 1d4+1 ------------- (P=H) SK ----------- 1d4+4 ------------- EX ---/10/20 1d6+4 ------------- MS ---/10/20 P=1d8+5 ------------- S=1d6+4 GM 10/20/30 P=1d8+7 ------------- S=1d6+7 ____________________________________________________________ Mace BS ------------ 1d6 ------------- (P=A) SK ------------ 2d4 ------------- EX ---/10/20 2d4+2 ------------- MS ---/10/20 2d4+4 ------------- GM 10/20/30 2d4+6 ------------- ____________________________________________________________ Sword, Bastard BS ------------ 1d8 ------------- used 1-handed SK ------------ 1d8+3 ------------- (P=H) EX ------------ 1d8+5 Deflect (1) MS ------------ P=1d10+8 Deflect (1) S=1d8+7 GM ------------ P=1d10+10 Deflect (2) S=1d8+8 ____________________________________________________________ Sword, Bastard BS ------------ 2d4 -------------- Used 2-handed SK ------------ 2d4+3 Deflect (1) (P=H) EX ---/---/5 2d4+5 Deflect (1) MS ---/---/5 P=1d10+8 Deflect (2) S=2d4+7 GM ---/5/10 P=1d12+10 Deflect (3) S=1d10+8 ____________________________________________________________ Sword, Long BS ------------ 1d8 -------------- (P=H) SK ------------ 1d12 Deflect (1) + Disarm EX ---/5/10 2d8 Deflect (2) + Disarm (save -1) MS ---/5/10 P=2d8+4 Deflect (2) + Disarm S=2d6+4 (save -2) GM 5/10/15 P=2d6+8 Deflect (3) + Disarm S=2d4+8 (save -4) ____________________________________________________________ Sword, Short BS ------------- 1d6 ----------------- (P=H) SK ------------- 1d6+2 Deflect (1) + Disarm (save -1) EX ---/10/20 1d6+4 Deflect (2) + Disarm (save -2) MS --/10/20 P=1d6+7 Deflect (2) + Disarm S=1d4+7 (save -3) GM 10/20/30 P=1d6+9 Deflect (3) + Disarm S=1d4+9 (save -4) ____________________________________________________________ Hand-Held Weapons Easily Thrown Weapon LVL Ranges Damage Special Effects ____________________________________________________________ Axe, Hand BS 10/20/30 1d6 ------------ (P=M) SK 15/25/35 1d6+2 ------------ EX 25/35/45 1d6+3 ------------ MS 30/40/50 P=2d4+4 ------------ S=1d6+4 GM 40/50/60 P=2d4+7 ------------ S=1d6+6 ____________________________________________________________ Dagger BS 10/20/30 1d4 ------------ (P=H) SK 15/25/35 1d6 Double Damage (20) EX 20/30/45 2d4 Double Damage (19-20) MS 25/35/50 P=3d4 Double Damage (18-20) S=2d4+2 GM 30/50/60 P=4d4 Double Damage (17-20) S=3d4+1 _____________________________________________________________ Javelin BS 30/60/90 1d6 ------------ (P=H) SK 30/60/90 1d6+2 ------------ EX 40/80/120 1d6+4 ------------ MS 40/80/120 P=1d6+6 ------------ S=1d4+6 GM 50/100/150 P=1d6+9 ------------ S=1d4+8 ____________________________________________________________ Spear BS 20/40/60 1d6 ------------ (P=A) SK 20/40/60 1d6+2 ------------ EX 40/60/75 2d4+2 Stun MS 40/60/75 2d4+4 Stun GM 60/75/90 2d4+6 Stun ____________________________________________________________ Trident BS 10/20/30 1d6 ----------- (P=M) SK 10/20/30 1d8+1 Skewer (up to 4HD) EX 20/30/45 1d8+4 Skewer (up to 6HD) MS 20/30/45 P=1d8+6 Skewer (up to 10HD) S=1d6+6 GM 30/45/60 P=1d6+9 Skewer (up to 15HD) S=1d4+8 ____________________________________________________________ Missile Weapons Weapon LVL Ranges Damage Special Effects ____________________________________________________________ Bow, Long BS 70/140/210 1d6/1d8* ------------- (P=M) SK 90/150/220 1d8/1d10+1 Delay (s/m)** EX 110/170/230 1d10+3 Delay (s/m) MS 130/180/240 P=3d6 Delay (s/m) S=1d10+4 GM 150/200/250 P=4d4+2 Delay (s/m) S=1d10+6 * flight/sheath arrows **small and medium ranges only ____________________________________________________________ Bow, Short BS 50/100/150 1d6/1d8 ------------- (P=M) SK 60/110/160 1d6+2/1d8+2 Delay (s) EX 80/130/170 1d8+4 Delay (s) MS 90/130/180 P=1d8+6 Delay (s) S=1d4+6 GM 110/140/190 P=1d10+8 Delay (s) S=1d6+7 ____________________________________________________________ Crossbow, Heavy BS 80/160/240 2d4 ------------- (P=H) SK 90/160/240 2d6 Stun (s/m) EX 100/170/240 2d6+2 Stun (s/m) MS 110/170/240 P=3d6+2 Stun (s/m) S=1d12+4 GM 120/180/240 P=3d6+5 Stun (s/m) S=1d10+6 ____________________________________________________________ Crossbow, Light BS 60/120/180 1d6 -------------- (P=H) SK 60/120/180 1d6+2 Stun (s) EX 75/130/180 1d6+4 Stun (s) MS 75/130/180 P=1d8+6 Stun (s) S=1d4+6 GM 90/140/180 P=1d8+8 Stun (s) S=2d4+5 ____________________________________________________________ Sling BS 40/80/160 1d4+1 ------------ (P=H) SK 40/80/160 1d6+1 Stun (s/m) EX 60/110/170 1d6+5 Stun (s/m) MS 60/110/170 P=3d4 Stun (s/m) S=1d4+6 GM 80/130/180 P=4d4 Stun (s/m) S=1d10+2 ____________________________________________________________ These are the stats for all of the basic weapons. If you wish to have your character use a weapon that is not on this list, I will create a weapon mastery chart for your particular weapon. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #260 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message.