mystara-digest Friday, May 1 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 261 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Draconic Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - WWII Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Draconic Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - WWII [MYSTARA] - Product List Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals [MYSTARA] - RE: WWII Re: [MYSTARA] - Ahem...Glantri, Ethengar, and others... Re: [MYSTARA] - Draconic Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Ahem...Glantri, Ethengar, and others... Re: [MYSTARA] - Draconic Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals [MYSTARA] - Princess Ark Question [MYSTARA] - info on monk class & lupin race [MYSTARA] - CAMPAIGN - Netbook of Political Revolution excerpt Re: [MYSTARA] - Hello Mystara! Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - info on pc with martal arts class PLEASE Re: [MYSTARA] - info on pc with martal arts class PLEASE [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 21:12:46 +0200 (METDST) From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Draconic Immortals At 11.31 30/04/98 -0400, SteelAngel wrote: BBut I wonder this, is it possible for a dragon to become immortal without becoming a dragon ruler? Look at Ka. He's non-human, and came from a genetically close race to Dragons (A T Rex, if I remember correctly). Maybe the Draconian pantheon is completely seperate from the normal immortal pantheon. If so, If I had a dragon PC (hypothetically) He'd have 2 choices, become a regular immortal by working through MANY very tough adventures, or challenge a Dragon Ruler. Okay, from what i understood from WotI, it is not actually by challenging the Dragon Ruler that a dragon becomes Immortal. In that book it's written that the Great One sponsored the three dragons to immortality, and especially with the third one (the Chaotic Ruler.. who's that... Pearl or Opal?), it says that since he had already sponsored a neutral and a lawful dragon, he wanted a chaotic one, so he sponsored the third dragon ruler. I don't think that if one already existed he would have had any reason to sponsor a new immortal... So, IMHO the only way to become immortal for non human beings is thru the same Paths that humans and demihumans have to follow. DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 22:12:53 +0200 (METDST) From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - WWII At 14.53 30/04/98 -0500, Vogt, Vincent N wrote: II was sitting in class today thinking about all the talk about war on Mystara and this is my idea. Thysis is feeling that they need a quick and decisive victory to bring back the glory to the empire after the war with alphatia so they decide that they want Karamiekos back. So their generals decide to ally with The Master oh Hule and their plan is this: >Thysis gas been contacted by the black eagle baron who claim that he has been quietly raising a humanoid army deep in the woods of his old barony. This is a stroke of luck for Thysis. The generals make contact with the Master of Hule to convince him to attack Darokin again. He is reluctant at first but when he finds out that Thysis has a plan to keep Karamiekos from sending troop and the Shires from sending much help he agrees. The main reason why this plan cannot work, my friend, is this: von Hendriks is no more the Black Eagle Baron by AC 1013 (read Joshuan Almanac). But, let's suppose he still is in charge and let's see what doesn't work... A: you say the Master and Thyatis will attack respectively Darokin, Karameikos and the Shires (with the help of von Hendriks). When do you think they will have enough military "power" to build up another army for such a huge task? Don't forget they have just come out of an international military conflict and they were not on the winning side... Thyatis is now reorganizing his forces on the Isle of Dawn (that's where it's trying to reestablish his hold, not the continent), while the Master is still wondering what went wrong in the last war and has pressing problems in Sind (anti-Hule bands who fight in the name of Gareth and under the Rajahdirajah's support). As you see, they have not enough firepower... B: but even if they had, Black Eagle's army is not sufficient to hold the Shires for "enough time" for the Thyatians to conquer the key cities in Karameikos (and Karameikos has a good army that never entered the war, so it's still intact..). besides, Ierendi and Minrothad will surely move to avoid Thyatis and Hule spreading their power (Ierendi could send troops to aid Darokin and Minrothad to block the Thyatian ports). So that's my "no" to the hypothesis with respective "whys". Of course, it all changes IF you rule WotI never happened... but then, we would have Alphatia still there... DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 16:23:08 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals >Good for him. Very very good for him.... >Thus If I had a character in the 5th circle, he could take an *immortal* form too? Well, technically yes, but realize that only one person may obtain the fifth circle of any of the seven crafts at one time. Jaggar's case is special and it depends on which source you go by. Going by the D&D books, he could take the form of the Star Dragon, at the expense of the real star dragon's wrath. The two would have to fight for dominence and the winner would become the immortal. In the AD&D Glantri book, Jaggar decided to attempt this and was confronted by the Star Dragon. If he lost, he would never be able to attempt this again. But, he won and claimed his rightfull title as the new Star Dragon. Being a human as the new star dragon, Jaggar took a lot of heat from dragonkind throughout Mystara. He then chose to relinquish his title to ease the tension. It did ease the tension and now Jaggar is allowed to use his 5th circle power, however he now (IIRC) turns into a great wyrm gold dragon. Which isn't so bad IMO. >I think not. I stand by my claim, though again, IMC is the word of the day. It seems rather stupid though that the immortals would allow a MORTAL to assume "at will" the manifestation form of one of their own. You should realize that Jaggar is no normal mortal. It's not like any geek off the streets can attempt this. Jaggar has earned this right through his works in life. He belongs in the fifth circle and he had a right to make use of his power. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 16:29:09 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals << But if Jagger is an avitar of Diamond how could Synn hope to gain control over him? >> Well, Jaggar has no idea of Synn's true identity. A leader of another principality has been dropping Jagger some hints, in hopes of Jagger finding the truth and giveing Synn what she's been deserving for so long...... - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 16:30:14 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Draconic Immortals On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, DM wrote: >sponsor a new immortal... So, IMHO the only way to become immortal for non human beings is thru the same Paths that humans and demihumans have to follow. Hmm. Now that you mention it, I seem to remember this too. Where is the Jaggar/Diamond story written, anyway? Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 16:32:18 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - WWII On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, DM wrote: >(anti-Hule bands who fight in the name of Gareth and under the ^^^^^^ This may have been asked before, but which Immortal is this? Has it been revealed? Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 15:36:10 -0500 From: "Vogt, Vincent N" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Product List I saw a list of all the Mystara products, both D&D and AD&D, some where on the web. I can no longer remember where I was wondering if someone knew where one might be. Or, if anyone has a list please send it to me at vvogt667@uwsp.edu Thank you, Vinny *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 16:42:37 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, Inconu wrote: >You should realize that Jaggar is no normal mortal. It's not like any geek off the streets can attempt this. Jaggar has earned this right through his works in life. He belongs in the fifth circle and he had a right to make use of his power. But he is still a mortal. According to the WotI codex, NO mortal can hold power over the immortals, thus mortal magics don't affect immortals, and Immortals can only be affected by +5 weapons. Again, this is a DM call, but I personally reject ANYTHING that gives a mortal power over things like Immortals, or blackballs, or Old Ones or whatever. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 16:20:19 -0500 From: "Vogt, Vincent N" Subject: [MYSTARA] - RE: WWII Another idea just came to me. The Master and Thysis convince Irendi are Minorathid (I know I spelled it wrong but I just can't remember the right way)to join in. They know that with Darokin out of the picture MANY trade routes will open up and it would be very profitable for either country. The countries do very little battling but their main job is to transport Thyatian troops to the main port cities of Karamiekos and also to blockade (another misspelled word?) any supplies coming in from the WDL. Again comments are welcome. Vinny *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 23:01:15 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ahem...Glantri, Ethengar, and others... At 18.38 29/04/98 EDT, Duncan TKD wrote: hhmmmm. What would happen if for some strange reason the Ethengar teammed up with the Shadow elves against Glantri. There's just a little problem: Rafiel, patron of Shadow Elves, and Rad, patron of Glantri, are sort of allies, so I don't see why shadowelves should attack Glantri. Moreover I don't think shadowelves have much interest conquering Glantri or helping those stinking horselover nomads from Ethengar (no offense intended Jamuga, I like Ethengar :). Corrupted shadowelves faithful to Atzanteotl from Aengmor/Oenkmar may instead side with Ethengar to spread some chaos in the area... and then betray the Ethies to spread some more chaos... Just my opinion as rafiel@geocities.com :-) - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 23:45:39 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Draconic Immortals At 16.30 30/04/98 -0400, you wrote: >On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, DM wrote: >>sponsor a new immortal... So, IMHO the only way to become immortal for non human beings is thru the same Paths that humans and demihumans have to follow. >Hmm. Now that you mention it, I seem to remember this too. >Where is the Jaggar/Diamond story written, anyway? Part in Gaz3 and part in Dragon#170 that is available at TSR site. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 23:53:04 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals At 16.42 30/04/98 -0400, SteelAngel wrote: >But he is still a mortal. According to the WotI codex, NO mortal can hold power over the immortals, thus mortal magics don't affect immortals, and Immortals can only be affected by +5 weapons. Being the Star Dragon doesn't give Jaggar any power over the Immortals. It just gives him power over Dragon of lawful alignment, but those are standard dragons, not Immortals. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 18:33:35 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ahem...Glantri, Ethengar, and others... In a message dated 98-04-30 18:03:33 EDT, you write: << There's just a little problem: Rafiel, patron of Shadow Elves, and Rad, patron of Glantri, are sort of allies, so I don't see why shadowelves should attack Glantri. Moreover I don't think shadowelves have much interest conquering Glantri or helping those stinking horselover nomads from Ethengar (no offense intended Jamuga, I like Ethengar :). Corrupted shadowelves faithful to Atzanteotl from Aengmor/Oenkmar may instead side with Ethengar to spread some chaos in the area... and then betray the Ethies to spread some more chaos... Just to add to this....On the other side, i really can't see Ethengar choosing Aengmoor as an ally for any reason....there's no way that Ethengar would trust those guys... - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 20:16:50 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Draconic Immortals On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: >Part in Gaz3 and part in Dragon#170 that is available at TSR site. Ahh. I really wish I had Gaz3 and Gaz6. I never really read too much of Dragon. I only own the premeir issue of the PA series. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 20:18:41 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: >Being the Star Dragon doesn't give Jaggar any power over the Immortals. It just gives him power over Dragon of lawful alignment, but those are standard dragons, not Immortals. But it does give him the power of an immortal, which usurps every immortal's superiority. I guess I'm probably Interpreting it wrong anyway. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 19:06:15 PDT From: "Buck Satan" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Princess Ark Question Hey out there, I was wondering if anyone knew of where I could find the Princess Ark Articles from Dragon issues #153 - #168, you know, the ones that come before the ones in the Champions of Mystara boxed set. I know there are places out there that sell those issuess (at a very high price) but I'd like to save my money, if I could. I've also tried TSR's own site, but their link to the Princess Ark articles is inactive. I was wondering if someone out there has them on their page, or if they could somehow send them to me (I realize this is a lot of work, I'd appreciate it), as this would save me allotta cash. Thanx! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 21:51:16 -0500 From: John Normand Subject: [MYSTARA] - info on monk class & lupin race does anybody have the monk's statistics, like abilities saving throws proficiencies, spells, stuff like that, and any kit that goes with that class, also is it posible to have a player character be a lupin race from savage coast/red steel, if so please give me an example of one if not both *************************************************************************** Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 02:31:51 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #261 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 12:54:38 +1000 (EST) From: "The Astronauts' Guild" Subject: [MYSTARA] - CAMPAIGN - Netbook of Political Revolution excerpt This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. - --0-2001026602-893991278=:14483 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi everybody! I am doing the Netbook of Political Revolution at present, here is a bit of it. Any additions pls email me direct c/o geckoes as above. - --0-2001026602-893991278=:14483 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; name="dtl.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64 Content-ID: Content-Description: RVhDRVJQVCBGUk9NIFRIRSBBRCZEIE5FVEJPT0sgT0YgUE9MSVRJQ0FMIFJF Vk9MVVRJT04NCg0Kdm9sdW50YXJpbHkgcmF0ZWQgTUEgLSAgcmVhbCB3b3Js ZCBjb25jZXB0cw0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgbWF0dXJpdHkg aW50cnVkZXMgb24gZ2FtaW5nDQoNCi4uLg0KDQpSRUJFTFMgJiBSRUFMUE9M SVRJSyAtIElOVFJPRFVDVElPTg0KDQpOb3RoaW5nIGlzIGVhc2llciB0byBz ZXQgdXAgdGhhbiBhIGNhbXBhaWduIGJhc2VkIG9uIGEgcmV2b2x1dGlvbiBv ciBhIHJlYmVsDQphbGxpYW5jZS4gVGhlIGlubmF0ZSBoZXJvaXNtIG9mIHRo ZSB2YXN0bHkgb3V0bnVtYmVyZWQgbm9ibGUtaGVhcnRlZCByZWJlbHMNCnN0 cnVnZ2xpbmcgYWdhaW5zdCB0aGUgdG90YWxpdGFyaWFuIGVtcGlyZSBvciB3 b3JsZC1zdGF0ZSBvZiBhbiBvcHByZXNzaXZlIA0KcmVsaWdpb24gaW5oZXJl bnRseSBhcHBlYWxzIHRvIG91ciBmaW5lciBpbnN0aW5jdHMuDQoNClVuZm9y dHVuYXRlbHksIG1hbnkgcmV2b2x0cyBhbmQgcG9saXRpY2FsIHN0cnVnZ2xl cyBpbiByZWFsIGxpZmUgYXJlIG5vdA0Kbm9ibGU7IHRoZXkgYXJlIGEgc3Ry dWdnbGUgYmV0d2VlbiB3b3VsZC1iZSB0b3RhbGl0YXJpYW4gQW5hcmNoaXN0 cyBhbmQgYW4NCmluZXF1aXRhYmxlLCBjb3JydXB0IGFuZCBjb25zcGlyYXRv cmlhbCBwb2xpdGljYWwgc3lzdGVtLiBQQ3MgZHJvcHBlZCBpbnRvIA0Kc3Vj aCBhbiBlbnZpcm9ubWVudCB3aWxsIGVuY291bnRlciBleHRyZW1lIGRpZmZp Y3VsdGllcyBpbiB0cnlpbmcgdG8gbWFrZQ0Kc2Vuc2Ugb2Ygd2hhdCBpcyBn b2luZyBvbiwgd2hvIHRvIHRydXN0IG9yIHdobyB0byBraWxsLi4uDQoNCklt YWdpbmUgYSBkdW5nZW9uIHdoaWNoIGlzIGEgR3VsYWcsIHdoZXJlIHRoZSBk aXNzaWRlbnRzIGFyZSBzZW50IHRvIGRpZSwgb3INCmEgY2FtcGFpZ24gaW4g d2hpY2ggdGhlIG1hZ2ljYWwgaXRlbXMga2VlcCBnZXR0aW5nIHN0b2xlbiBi eSBhIG15c3RlcmlvdXMNCk9yZGVyIG9mIFNpbGVuY2VycyB3aG8gYXJlIHRy eWluZyB0byBzdG9wIHRoZSBzcHJlYWQgb2YgbWFnaWNhbCBwb3dlci4uLg0K DQpQb2xpdGljYWwgcmVsYXRpb25zaGlwcyBhcmUgdGhlIHNpbmUgcXVhZSBu b24gKHdpdGhvdXQgd2hpY2ggbm90KSBvZiBhbGwNCmZldWRhbCBhbmQgaW1w ZXJpYWwgc3lzdGVtcywgd2hpY2ggYXJlIGJ5IHRoZWlyIHZlcnkgbmF0dXJl IHBvbGl0aWNhbCBhbmQNCnNvY2lhbCBzdHJ1Y3R1cmVzIGRlZmluaW5nIGVh Y2ggcGVyc29uJ3MgcmVsYXRpb25zaGlwIHRvIGV2ZXJ5b25lIGVsc2UuDQoN Ci4uLg0KDQpERUFUSCBUTyBMSUZFIC0gVEhFIEFOQVJDSElTVA0KDQooIkRl YXRoIFRvIExpZmUiIHdhcyB0aGUgbW90dG8gZW1ibGF6b25lZCBvbiBhIFdo aXRlIFJ1c3NpYW4gKGFudGktY29tbXVuaXN0KQ0KTmloaWxpc3QgQW5hcmNo aXN0IGR1cmluZyB0aGUgMTkyMHMgUnVzc2lhbiBDaXZpbCBXYXIpDQoNCiAi TG9vayBhdCB0aGVtLi4uIFBlYWNlZnVsLCB3ZWxsLWZlZCBzbHVncyBjb3dl cmluZyBiZWhpbmQgdGhlIGJhbm5lciBvZg0KICBXZXN0ZXJuIERlbW9jcmFj eS4uLiINCiAgICAgICAgLSBCYXJvbiBJcm9uYmxvb2QsIEJhdHRsZS1BY3Rp b24gQ29taWMgMTk4Mw0KDQpUaXJlZCBvZiBzdXBlcm5hdHVyYWwgaG9ycm9y IG9yIGR1bmdlb24gcXVlc3RzID8gVGFrZSBhIGJyZWFrIHdpdGggSmFuIEh1 c3MgDQpvciB0aGUgSWxsdW1pbmF0aSBvZiAxODQ4Li4uIEp1c3QgYXMgaG9y cmlibGUsIGJ1dCBubyBoaWdoLWxldmVsIGZpZW5kcyBvciANCm1vbnN0ZXJz Li4uDQoNCkFuYXJjaGlzdHMNCg0KQW5hcmNoaXN0cyBhcmUgaW5kaXZpZHVh bHMgYW5kIGdyb3VwcyB3aG8gZGV2b3RlIHRoZWlyIGVuZXJnaWVzIHRvIGJy aW5naW5nIA0KZG93biB0aGUgbG9jYWwgbGVnaXRpbWF0ZSBnb3Zlcm5tZW50 IGFuZCBydWxlcnMgYnkgdmlvbGVudCBtZWFucy4gTm90IG9ubHkgZG8gDQpB bmFyY2hpc3RzIHdpc2ggdG8gZGVzdHJveSB0aGUgZ292ZXJubWVudCBhbmQg aXRzIHN0cnVjdHVyZXMsIGJ1dCB0aGV5IGFsc28gDQp1c3VhbGx5IHdhbnQg dG8gYWN0dWFsbHkgZXhlY3V0ZSB0aGUgcnVsZXJzIGFuZCBnb3Zlcm5tZW50 IG9mZmljaWFscyANCnRoZW1zZWx2ZXMuIFNob3VsZCBhIGdvdmVybm1lbnQg cmVzaWduIG9yIG9ibGlnZSB0aGUgQW5hcmNoaXN0cyBieSBzdGVwcGluZyAN CmRvd24gYW5kIGFsbG93aW5nIGEgbmV3IHN5c3RlbSB0byBkZXZlbG9wLCB0 aGUgbW9zdCBsaWtlbHkgc2NlbmFyaW8gaXMgdGhhdCANCnRoZSBBbmFyY2hp c3RzIHdpbGwgcm91bmQgdXAgdGhlIGV4LW9mZmljaWFscywgbm9ibGVzIG9y IHdob2V2ZXIsIGltcHJpc29uIA0KdGhlbSBpbiBhIGNydWVsIGFuZCBhYnVz aXZlIGZhc2hpb24sIHRoZW4gaG9sZCBrYW5nYXJvbyBjb3VydHMgYW5kIHNo b3cgdHJpYWxzIA0KYW5kIGV4ZWN1dGUgdGhlbSBhbGwgcHVibGljbHksIGFs b25nIHdpdGggdGhlaXIgZmFtaWxpZXMsIGlubm9jZW50IGJ5LXN0YW5kZXJz IA0KYW5kIG1lbWJlcnMgb2YgdGhlIGxvY2FsIGNvbW11bml0eSBzdXNwZWN0 ZWQgb2YgYmVpbmcgInJlYWN0aW9uYXJ5Iiwgd2hpY2ggDQpub3JtYWxseSBt ZWFucyAiaGFua2VyaW5nIGZvciB0aGUgZ29vZCBvbGQgZGF5cyIuDQoNCkJl Y2F1c2UgQW5hcmNoeSBpcyBvZnRlbiB1c2VkIGFzIGEgc3lub255bSBvZiBD aGFvcywgQ2hhb3RpY3MgZmFsbCBpbnRvIHRoZQ0KdHJhcCBvZiBhc3N1bWlu ZyBhbiBBbmFyY2hpc3QgaXMgYSBDaGFvdGljIGxvb2tpbmcgZm9yIGZyaWVu ZHMuIFdyb25nLW8uDQpBbmFyY2hpc3RzIGFyZSBhbnRpLWdvdmVybm1lbnQv YW50aS1ydWxlcnM7IHRoZXkgbWF5IGJlIGFtb25nIHRoZSBtb3N0IHN0cmlj dA0Kb3JnYW5pc2VkIExhd2Z1bHMgaW4gdGhlIHdob2xlIGxvY2FsIGFyZWEs IGFzIGV2ZXJ5dGhpbmcgaXMgImZvciB0aGUgY2F1c2UiLg0KVGhlIGxhdyBh biBBbmFyY2hpc3QgZm9sbG93cyBpcyB0aGUgZG9nbWF0aWMgdGVhY2hpbmdz IG9mIHRoZSBTYWdlcyBvZiBBbmFyY2h5DQpuYW1lbHkgRGFmZnlkIGFwIE5p bmVsLCBYcmFtIHRoZSBEcmVhbWVyLCBhbmQgU2xlZ25lIFNoYW1tYS4gU29t ZSBuZXdlcg0KY29udmVydHMgZm9sbG93IHRoZSB0ZWFjaGluZ3MgY29udGFp bmVkIGluIHdoYXQgaXMga25vd24gYXMgdGhlIFJlZCBNYW51YWwNCm9mIEFu YXJjaHksIHdyaXR0ZW4gYnkgdGhlIHBlYXNhbnQgV2Fycmlvci1FbXBlcm9y IEdudXRlc3QgT2FtLiBUaGUgbGF3IHRoYXQNCkFuYXJjaGlzdHMgZm9sbG93 IGlzIGEgc3RyaWN0IGFuZCBldmlsIGNyZWVkIG9mIG1hY2hpYXZlbGxpYW4g ZGVjZXB0aW9uLA0KZGVhdGggcGVuYXRsaWVzIGFuZCBib21iaW5nIG91dHJh Z2VzLiBUaGUgRml2ZS1ZZWFyIFBsYW4gYW5kIFBvbGl0aWNhbA0KQ29ycmVj dG5lc3MgYXJlIHRoZSB3YXRjaHdvcmRzLiBPbmUgYXR0cmFjdGl2ZSBmZWF0 dXJlIGZvciBvdXRjYXN0cyB3aGVuDQpqb2luaW5nIEFuYXJjaGlzdCBtb3Zl bWVudHMsIG9yZ2FuaXNhdGlvbnMgYW5kIHNlY3RzIGlzIHRoYXQgQW5hcmNo eSB0ZWFjaGVzDQp0aGUgYWJzb2x1dGUgZXF1YWxpdHkgb2YgYWxsIHNlbnRp ZW50cyAtIG5vdCBqdXN0IHNwaXJpdHVhbCB3b3J0aCBiZWluZyBlcXVhbA0K YnV0IHRoYXQgdGhlcmUgaXMgbm8gdmFsaWQgc29jaWFsIHJhbmssIGlubmF0 ZSB2YWx1ZSBvZiBhbiBpbnRlbGxlY3R1YWwgb3INCnBoeXNpY2FsIGdpZnQs IG9yIGFueSBvdGhlciBmZWF0dXJlLiBUaHVzIG9yZGluYXJpbHkgY2hhb3Rp YyBldmlsIGJlaW5ncyBtYXkNCnJlbm91bmNlIHRoZWlyIGFsaWdubWVudCBt b3RpdmlhdGlvbiBhbmQgdGhyb3cgaW4gdGhlaXIgbG90IHdpdGggbWlzZ3Vp ZGVkDQpjaGFvdGljIGdvb2RzLCBkaXNpbnRlcmVzdGVkIHNlbGYtY2VudHJl ZCBuZXV0cmFscyBhbmQgb3V0LWFuZC1vdXQgbGF3ZnVsDQpldmlsIHJldm9s dXRpb25hcmllcy4NCg0KQW5hcmNoaXN0IGNoYXJhY3RlcnMNCiAgDQogIldp dGggZmxhbWV0aHJvd2VyIHNxdWFkcyBhbmQgaHVtYW4gYm9tYiB0ZWFtcywg d2Ugd2lsbCBicmluZyB0ZXJyb3IgdG8NCiAgdGhlaXIgc3RyZWV0cy4uLiIN CiAgICAgICAgLSBCYXJvbiBJcm9uYmxvb2QsIEJhdHRsZS1BY3Rpb24gQ29t aWMgMTk4Mw0KDQpBbGlnbm1lbnQ6IHN0cm9uZ2x5IHRlbmRpbmcgdG93YXJk cyBMRSwgTkUgb3IgQ04uIExHIEFuYXJjaGlzdHMgYXJlIHBvc3NpYmxlDQog ICAgICAgIGJ1dCBpdCB3aWxsIGJlIGJ5ZS1ieWUgRyBoZWxsbyBFIGFmdGVy IHRoZSBMIGFsbCB0b28gc29vbi4uLg0KDQpDbGFzc2VzOiAgIEZpZ2h0ZXJz IC0gZXNwZWNpYWxseSB0aG9zZSB3aXRoIGJvbWItbWFraW5nLCBhbWJ1c2Nh ZGUsIG9yYXRvcnkNCiAgICAgICAgYW5kIHBvbGl0aWNhbCB0aGVvcnkgc2tp bGxzLiBNaXNzaWxlIHdlYXBvbnMgYXJlIGZhdm91cmVkIGZvciBzbmlwZXIN CiAgICAgICAgYW5kIHJhbmRvbSBraWxsaW5nIG91dHJhZ2VzLg0KDQogICAg ICAgICAgIFdpemFyZHMgIC0gcHlyb3RlY2huaWMgYW5kIHN0cmF0ZWdpYyBz cGVsbHMgZmF2b3VyZWQsIGVnIGNoYXJtDQogICAgICAgIGFuZCBpbGx1c2lv biBzcGVsbHMsIGRhbmNpbmcgbGlnaHRzLCB3YWxsIG9mIGZvZywgY29sb3Vy IHNwcmF5LGV0Yy4NCiAgICAgICAgQW5hcmNoaXN0IFdpemFyZHMgdXNlIHNw ZWxscyB0byBhbGxvdyB0aGUgaG9yZGVzIG9mIG5vbi1tYWdpY2FsDQogICAg ICAgIEFuYXJjaGlzdHMgdG8gbWFrZSBnb29kIHRoZWlyIGVzY2FwZSBpbiB0 aGUgY29uZnVzaW9uLCBvciB0byAid2luDQogICAgICAgIG92ZXIiIHBhcnRp Y3VsYXJseSBzdHViYm9ybiBvZmZpY2lhbHMgYmVmb3JlIHRoZSByZXZvbHV0 aW9uLg0KDQogICAgICAgICAgIENsZXJpY3MgIC0gZWl0aGVyIGZhaWxlZCAi d2hpc2tleSBwcmllc3RzIiBlbWJyb2lsZWQgaW4gc2Vuc2VsZXNzDQogICAg ICAgIGFuZCBpbXBvc3NpYmxlIHRvIHJlc29sdmUgbW9yYWwgZGlsZW1tYXMg KGhlbHAgdGhlIHBlYXNhbnRzIGFuZCBjYXVzZQ0KICAgICAgICBhIHdhciA/ IE9yIGhlbHAgdGhlIHJ1bGVycyBhbmQgY2F1c2UgYSBtYXNzYWNyZSA/KSwg b3IgZWxzZSBkcml2ZW4NCiAgICAgICAgcmV2b2x1dGlvbmFyaWVzIHdpdGgg Z29kIG9uIHRoZWlyIHNpZGUuDQoNCiAgICAgICAgICAgUGFsYWRpbnMgLSBh IGZhc2NpbmF0aW5nIHF1ZXN0aW9uLiBQZXJoYXBzIGEgUGFsYWRpbiB3b3Vs ZCBnaXZlIHVwDQogICAgICAgIGhpcyBvciBoZXIgcG93ZXJzIGlmIHRoZXkg aGFkIGEgY3Jpc2lzIG9mIGZhaXRoIGFuZCBzd2FwcGVkIHRvIHRoZQ0KICAg ICAgICBBbmFyY2hpc3QgY2F1c2UuLi4gT3IgcGVyaGFwcyB0aGV5IHdvdWxk IGJlY29tZSBzb21lIHNvcnQgb2YgTkUNCiAgICAgICAgQW5hcmNoaWMgdmVy c2lvbiBvZiBhIFBhbGFkaW4gPz8/IFVubGlrZWx5LCBidXQuLi4NCg0KICAg ICAgICAgICBSYW5nZXJzIC0gdGhlIHNjb3V0cyBhbmQgc2Fib3RldXJzIG9m IHRoZSByZXZvbHV0aW9uLg0KDQogICAiSW4gYSBwZXJmZWN0IHdvcmxkIHdl J2QgYWxsIG1hcmNoIGluIHR1bmUgDQogICAgQnV0IHRoaXMgaXMgcmVhbGl0 eSBzbyBnaXZlIG1lIHNvbWUgcm9vbS4uLiINCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBC aWxseSBCcmFnZywgMTk4Mg0KDQouLi4NCg0KQU5EIFdIRU4gVEhFIFJFVk9M VVRJT04nUyBPVkVSLCBBTkQgV0UnUkUgQUxMIEEgTElUVExFIE9MREVSLi4u DQoNCiAgICJNb25leSBzcGVha3MgZm9yIG1vbmV5Ow0KICAgIFRoZSBEZXZp bCBmb3IgaGlzIG93bi4uLiINCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBBbm9uLg0KDQog ICAiVGhlIE1hcnR5cidzIGZsYWcncyBub3Qgd2hhdCB5b3UgdGhpbmssDQog ICAgSXQgaXNuJ3QgcmVkIGJ1dCBhIGRpcnR5IHBpbms7DQogICAgQW5kIGl0 J3Mgbm90IHN0YWluZWQgd2l0aCBtYXJ0eXIncyBibG9vZA0KICAgIEJ1dCB3 aXRoIGEgaGFybG90J3MgbWVuc3RydWFsIGZsb29kLi4uIg0KICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgIEFub24uDQoNCiAgICJBZnRlciB0aGUgd2FyIGlzIG92ZXINCiAg ICBBbmQgd2UncmUgYWxsIGEgbGl0dGxlIG9sZGVyLi4uDQogICAgVGhlIHVu a25vd24gc29sZGllci4uLiINCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBKaW0gTW9ycmlz b24gKHByYXkgZm9yIGp1bmtpZXMpLCAxOTY4DQoNClNvIGlmIG9yIHdoZW4g dGhlIEFuYXJjaGlzdHMgd2luLCB3aGF0IGhhcHBlbnMgPw0KDQouLi4NCg0K LU5hemkgR2VybWFueSAtIGEgc29jaW9wYXRoIGdvdmVybm1lbnQgcnVubmlu ZyBkb3duIGxpa2UgYSBjbG9ja3dvcmsgdG95DQoNCi1UaGUgRW1waXJlIGlu IFN0YXJXYXJzIC0gbm8gcGxhbiwganVzdCBhbiBpbnNhbmUgZGVzaXJlIGZv ciBjb25xdWVzdCBhbmQNCiBjb250cm9sDQoNCi1Tb3ZpZXQgUnVzc2lhIC0g ZnJvbSBlYWNoIGFjY29yZGluZyB0byBoaXMgYWJpbGl0eSwgdG8gdGhlIGVs aXRlIHRvIGRvIHdpdGgNCiBhcyB0aGV5IHBsZWFzZQ0KDQotQ29tbXVuaXN0 IENoaW5hIChzaHVkZGVyKQ0KDQotQ3ViYSAtIGdhbmdzdGVycyBpbiwgZ2Fu Z3N0ZXJzIG91dA0KDQotQnVsZ2FyaWEgKHNodWRkZXIpDQoNCi1ZdWdvc2xh dmlhICgnbnVmZiBzYWlkKQ0KLi4uDQo= - --0-2001026602-893991278=:14483-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 23:37:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Hello Mystara! At 08:48 PM 4/29/98 +0300, you wrote: >>Okay, so they've got more. But the Realms has been TSR's AD&D flagship since 1987(?), while Mystara's been ignored and trashed by TSR for about four years. Not to mention the fact that's Mystarans are naturally ssmarter, >>better looking, healthier, and nicer than those Realms types. And of >Ahem. So what a fan of both Mystara and Realms would be like? :) Well, you're redeemable :-) I used to like the Realms, too, until I realized that TSR was overloading us with information and milking the setting drier than Ylaruam. Then I picked up the Karameikos Gazetteer...I was saved, and I had seen the light! Praise Diulanna! Besides, the Realms today are nothing but sourcebooks and walk-through 'adventures' that are just novels in disguise. No freedom of creativity; no real adventures like the joyous romp of the Keep on the Borderlands (I've been through there five times), or the sense of awe when you first realize your PCs are standing on the inside of the planet looking up at a red sun...the Realms are simple a pale, plain setting without much interest or fun anymore. Mystara, on the other hand, rules. But you all knew that already, didn't you? :-) Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 00:05:45 EDT From: BoBo II Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - info on pc with martal arts class PLEASE In DnD, look at the Mystic, outlined as an optional character type. In ADnD 1st Ed. look at the monk. In 2nd Ed. AD&D look at martial arts in Complete Fighters handbook and Fighting Monk kit in Complete clerics. There is no martial arts character type in the Players Handbook and is added-in in the "Complete" series. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 01:11:55 EDT From: Duncan TKD Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - info on pc with martal arts class PLEASE There is also a system in the coplete book of ninjas, and if you don't like anything that TSR has put out you might want try NInjas and Superspies by Palladium. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 00:32:49 -0600 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) I am going to do something most on this list would consider heretical: I am going to stand up for the Forgotten Realms. I think it should be fairly obvious I am a big fan of Mystara; a person doesn't spend a lot of time, effort, and, until just recently, money to support a mailing list for a setting unless he _really_ likes it. With that, though, I have to say I am also a fan of many of TSR's other settings, including Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, Spelljammer, Al-Qadim and Planescape. I see settings as tools to be used, not as religions to be preached. I love Mystara, but at times I evision campaigns and adventures that I don't feel fit the tone and atmosphere of Mystara, and would be better placed in another setting. For such campaigns I pick another world to use. I consider my campaign visions more important than the setting itself. Mystara is often my first choice, but it is not my only choice, just like a hammer is not my only choice of tools. I am also not alone on this list; there are several people I recognize from other lists, including the Realms list. I never did see the point of publicly bashing a setting or game simply because it is not my cup of tea. I certainly doesn't help Mystara. And since we have people here that also like the Realms, insulting it is likely to irritate them. Why foster ill will? Glen Sprigg meandered fecklessly... >I used to like the Realms, too, until I realized that TSR was overloading us >with information and milking the setting drier than Ylaruam. This is a negative spin on what I feel is a genrally positive phenomenon. Realms fans want Realms info, so TSR puts it out. If Realms fans are happy, and TSR turns a buck, how could this be bad? TSR would not "milk" the Realms if people didn't want more info on it. My school of thought on game worlds is this: either give me a lot of info, or don't bother. Some people liked the original setup of Greyhawk, where things were simply outlined and touched on, allowing them to fill in the blanks with their ideas. This is foreign to me. If I am going to put considerable work into a setting, I am going to do it from scratch. This is why I like both Mystara and the Realms. These worlds are setup for me, and well detailed. While I enjoy adding some detail to them, both settings have enough there to let me run a game without having to spend hours of work. Not to say the aforementioned approach is invalid, just not how I do things. >Besides, the Realms today are nothing but sourcebooks and walk-through 'adventures' that are just novels in disguise. No freedom of creativity; no >real adventures like the joyous romp of the Keep on the Borderlands (I've been through there five times), I am not overly concerned with adventures, since I rarely run them. I tend to use modules mainly as inspiration and source material. (Though my next AD&D game is likley to be a Mystara campaign using a bunch of the modules I have previously mentioned buying :). As for sourcebooks, this is what I want from a setting! Pile them on, baby! This is the meat of any RPG setting, and I don't see why FR should be any different. The Gazetteers are sourcebooks, and if they maintained their quality, how many Mystara fans would complain if TSR had kept putting them out, expanding the Known World? Some, to be sure, but most would likely be quite happy. Creativity is a function of people; nothing in the Realms books I own stops me from being creative. What is it about the Realms that restricts freedom of creativity? >or the sense of awe when you first realize your PCs are standing on the inside of the planet looking up at a red sun... While I certainly feel the Hollow World is cool, not having that as part of a seeting is hardly a crime, especially since Mystara is the only setting that leaps to mind that has such a thing. Well, the World of Darkness does, in a way... >the Realms are simple a pale, plain setting without much interest or fun anymore. Fun and interest are subjective, of course, so I won't bother with those, but as for "pale" and "plain"... I don't find the Realms to be any more plain than Mystara; both have their ups and downs, and both have their points of interest. Both of them are "generic" medieval/renaissance settings that find different ways to set themselves apart from similar worlds. I certainly don't find it to be pale, either. There is just as much color as Mystara, it just may not be a color some like. The Realms certainly aren't perfect, but then again neither is Mystara. I am certainly not trying to promote the Realms here, or advocate it. If you [1] don't like FR, that's fine. I just think bashing it is silly. It's just a fantasy setting, not a life philosophy. Simply beacuse it's not what you may want from a setting doesn't make it a poor setting. [1] That's the collective "you". Well, that's enough of that. Back to your regulary scheduled Mystara stuff... Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com ICQ #4253672 "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #261 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, May 1 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 262 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Night Dragons [MYSTARA] - Sea of Dread Re: [MYSTARA] - WWII Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) Re: [MYSTARA] - WWII Re: [MYSTARA] - Draconic Immortals [MYSTARA] - WOTI Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Draconic Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Take a Chill Pill Re: [MYSTARA] - CAMPAIGN - Netbook of Political Revolution excerpt Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Best Modules!!! Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Draconic Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Best Modules!!! [MYSTARA] - Best Modules!!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 16:58:50 +1000 (EST) From: "The Astronauts' Guild" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) Had to say 2cp worth on FR. Forgettable Realms has gone too far down the path of eg Marvel Comics or Star Trek, in the sense that there is SO MUCH stuff pushed at a gamer to do with it that there is not the same freedom to be creative, and that to me is a rather sinister phenomenon, because then in the end it becomes a choice between endless "canonical" FR material, which is slowly but surely turning AD&D back into a wargame (I will explain this below) or else a final and sad break with buying all the guff and just saying to the group "not in my campaign." FR becomes a wargame because it becomes a set of incidents tied to gether by immutable game mechanics and indestructible characters. Elminster the Gandalf clone and the other improbable to say the least characters of FR are a world away from the "it could be YOU" Mystaran leading lights, all of whom are possible within a sensible campaign. FR characters may be theoretically killable or hurtable, but in practice FR gamers don't feel free to make radical changes - its just like in Star Trek - there are bit players who can get chewed up, but not the MAIN characters. Living in the shadow of a bunch of 2-D meat puppets like the tragically unoriginal Elminster and his rules-violating buddies doesnt appeal. See, if FR was a genuinely creative part of the hobby, there wouldn't be an Elminster, there'd be rules on "Demigod Wizards - Jacob's Ladder and how to play VERY high level spellcasters", which there isnt. Not really. Someone recently said about Mystara that it is such a fun creative world and that is the HUGE difference between it and the other TSR settings, with the possible exception of Athas; it is also what sounded Mystara's death-knell. TSR can't make the money it makes off of FR from a setting where each campaign is going to be radically different within a few weeks or months, as PCs kill a lord here or conclude an unsavoury alliance there, or just sail off the edge of the Map of the KW. And yes I ahve played in Fr and run FR. But it reduces the DM to the function of a hologram generator, and the players (myself included) just keep thinking, "gee, where was this ripped off from ? It's hauntingly familiar, and obviously an import from somewhere... oh yeah! Runequest/oh yeah! D&D/oh yeah! Palladium/oh yeah! Tolkien..." and while the rest of the hobby moves on there is TSR smothering Mystara/Blackmoor and prospering Forgettable Realms. So sad. So typical. So TSR / Witherers of the Creative. - -Hal & Dave the Monolith Twins *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 08:01:00 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) At 04:58 PM 5/1/98 +1000, you wrote: >And yes I ahve played in Fr and run FR. But it reduces the DM to the function of a hologram generator, and the players (myself included) just keep thinking, "gee, where was this ripped off from ? It's hauntingly familiar, and obviously an import from somewhere... oh yeah! Runequest/oh yeah! D&D/oh yeah! Palladium/oh yeah! Tolkien..." and while the rest of the hobby moves on there is TSR smothering Mystara/Blackmoor and prospering Forgettable Realms. So sad. So typical. So TSR / Witherers of the Creative. A) Fantasy rpgs were created by fans of fantasy literature. Fantasy literature has certain formulas and details that, to its detractors, are sometimes called repetitive or even ripoffs. Genre fiction in general follows certain rules and formulas that fans enjoy, and those who don't read the genre do not enjoy. So when you say that FR rips off from Tolkien, well yeah, he is the guy who invented our modern fantasy paradigm. All heroic, sword and sorcery, epic hero fantasy goes back to Tolkien. His own inspirational sources were largely from Medieval literature. Beowulf and Sir Gawain have alot in common with characters from the Forgotten Realms and Mystara both. Please don't believe your home games are the most unique, original stories out there. In a sense it has all been done and we look for either interesting variations or an exciting vehicle for the same story. This is not meant to be insulting, it is simply the subject we love. Personally, as cheesy as it may be, I love the epic hero complete with armies converging and magic swords and evil artifacts and dragons to be conquered. But how many times can I tell that story to my group, even with their characters as the heroes, without them saying "hey, didn't we save the world last week?" What we do with our roleplaying games is a part of "fan literature". This is not intended to insult what we do. I have been playing this game for 20 years now (My lord! Has it really been that long??). But it really make us Mystarans look more credible to go around cranking out are grouchies with other realms as the target. Besides, I led a DM in my group from a generic world to FR because I consider the material to be excellent and if I cannot play in Mystara (because I DM it and guard the material jealously) then I would want to play in FR. B) I really strongly encourage all of us to refrain from making these senseless attacks on TSR. It makes us look silly. We don't want to look silly. At least I don't. And I feel that I look silly by association. In any case, there is nothing wrong with stating facts. I love to say "Mystara's main problem was the marketing. It was marketed to nonexistent beginners and the experienced players were left with nothing to buy" This is a true statement backed up with history. But "Witherers of the Creative" is just a petty insult. We are more grown up than them. Let's prove it. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 11:00:53 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals In a message dated 98-04-30 13:18:03 EDT, you write: << On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, Duncan TKD wrote: >Is not the queen of the night dragons, synn, an immortal? No. AFAIK She is just a greater Night Dragon. (D&D-wise) Håvard >> IIRC she is a greater Night Dragon. And her involvement to spread chaos in Glantri is part of her bid for Immortality. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 10:22:48 -0500 From: "Cecil Cosman" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Night Dragons I've heard a lot of talk about Night Dragons on this list but I'm unfamiliar with them. What source are they detailed in? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 10:29:41 -0500 From: "Cecil Cosman" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Sea of Dread I'm looking for information of the arpeligo in the Sea of Dread. I have no idea how to spell it off hand. It's something like Than... whatever. I seem to recall hearing about someone that runs a camp there. I'm aware of two modules that flesh out 2 of the islands. Drums on Fire Mountain and Isle of Dread. Just wondering if anyone knew of more info I could obtain. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 10:40:57 -0500 From: "Cecil Cosman" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - WWII >Thyatis is now reorganizing his forces on the Isle of Dawn (that's where it's trying to reestablish his hold, not the continent), while the Master is still wondering what went wrong in the last war and has pressing problems in Sind If this is true do you all think that it might be possible for the Thayations to bu bumped off of the mainland? I only have the first 2 PWA's and I havn't looked that in a long time so I'm not sure that all their forces are off of the mainland to begin with. It doesn't sound verry likely. I think it would be interesting to do in a game though... herd them someplace else. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 01:48:07 +1000 (EST) From: "The Astronauts' Guild" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) ah, free speech, I see I must farewell you again. well, I for one don't see all modern fantasy going back to Tolkien. What about Robert E. Howard, Lieber, or of course, ER Burroughs, the Grandmaster ? And Forgotten Realms is not at all original and is therefore firmly on the side of passive entertainment like TV rather than active and authentic roleplaying which always was and will always be more akin to theatre of some sort. There is no redaction in a FR game - its colour by numbers. Infantile. As for WotC and TSR, they are typical corporate hijackers. I didn't play AD&D by preference, and I still don't. But by intersecting with AD&D I can show people who have only ever seen through TSR's bloodshot eyes that there is so much more to roleplaying- the most common human activity. So sod TSR, and WotC, and anyone who thinks that either of those entities has somehow got a pipeline to the dreamscape. They sell a mass product - the McDonalds of the mind. Avoid it and become a chef of dreams. yadda yadda yadda etc.etc.etc. oh yeah - unsubscribe mystara-l *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 17:35:20 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - WWII On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, SteelAngel wrote: >On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, DM wrote: >>(anti-Hule bands who fight in the name of Gareth and under the ^^^^^^^ >This may have been asked before, but which Immortal is this? Has it been revealed? No. It is one of those mysteries.. It has been discussed before. He may be a new immortal, an old one or an old Immortal who has been away from the known Multiverse for a long time. (Possibly Sinbad) Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 18:07:29 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Draconic Immortals On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, DM wrote: >At 11.31 30/04/98 -0400, SteelAngel wrote: BBBut I wonder this, is it possible for a dragon to become immortal without becoming a dragon ruler? Look at Ka. He's non-human, and came from a genetically close race to Dragons (A T Rex, if I remember correctly). Maybe the Draconian pantheon is completely seperate from the normal immortal pantheon. If so, If I had a dragon PC (hypothetically) He'd have 2 choices, become a regular immortal by working through MANY very tough adventures, or challenge a Dragon Ruler. >Okay, from what i understood from WotI, it is not actually by challenging the Dragon Ruler that a dragon becomes Immortal. In that book it's written that the Great One sponsored the three dragons to immortality, and especially with the third one (the Chaotic Ruler.. who's that... Pearl or Opal?), it says that since he had already sponsored a neutral and a lawful dragon, he wanted a chaotic one, so he sponsored the third dragon ruler. I don't think that if one already existed he would have had any reason to sponsor a new immortal... So, IMHO the only way to become immortal for non human beings is thru the same Paths that humans and demihumans have to follow. What are you talking about, Marco? There are dozens of ways to become Immortal. If you remember the article about the Ceremony of sublimation, it says that Dragons undergoing the ceremony after becoming Huge, become Immortal Guardians. (who eventually rise to replace Dragon Rulers who die.) Also, I see no reason why Dragons could not learn the secrets of the Radience and become immortal in that manner. There are probably many ways of attaining immortality that are yet urevealed to us... Anyway, The Glantri Gaz clearly states that the Craft of Drachology is a way to immortality. Though it seems unlikely that this should be possible, unless the Great One decided that it should be that way.. Sincerely Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 13:41:01 -0300 From: edu@giga.com.ar Subject: [MYSTARA] - WOTI I read the WWII mail and I liked the way how (who wrote it) explain that. Can you explain me, in that way, how WOTI occured? Thanks, Jonathan Leibiusky edu@giga.com.ar *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 18:02:33 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) s "canonical" FR material, which is slowly but ssurely turning AD&D back into a wargame (I will explain this below) or else a final and sad break with buying all the guff and just saying to the group "not in my campaign." :) - The NIMC factor - i know it well. Someone runs the Realms around here... >FR becomes a wargame because it becomes a set of incidents tied to gether by immutable game mechanics and indestructible characters. Elminster the Gandalf clone and the other improbable to say the least characters of FR are a world away from the "it could be YOU" Mystaran leading lights, all of whom are possible within a sensible campaign. FR characters may be theoretically killable or hurtable, but in practice FR gamers don't feel free to make radical changes - its just like in Star Trek - there are bit players who can get chewed up, but not the MAIN characters. Living in the shadow of a bunch of 2-D meat puppets like the tragically unoriginal Elminster and his rules-violating buddies doesnt appeal. See, if FR was a genuinely creative part of the hobby, there wouldn't be an Elminster, there'd be rules on "Demigod Wizards - Jacob's Ladder and how to play VERY high level spellcasters", which there isnt. Not really. Someone recently said about Mystara that it is such a fun creative world and that is the HUGE difference between it and the other TSR settings, with the possible exception of Athas; it is also what sounded Mystara's death-knell. TSR can't make the money it makes off of FR from a setting where each campaign is going to be radically different within a few weeks or months, as PCs kill a lord here or conclude an unsavoury alliance there, or just sail off the edge of the Map of the KW. I agree 110%. After reading that FR book about the Seven Sisters, complete Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 14:43:57 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #262 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com with stuff on how to appropriately kiss their butt (I kid you not - check out the "What Pleases ------" paragraphs" I know what you mean. An example - I absolutely despise Mystra - the entire concept. If not for Mystra I would be tempted to play FR - but this "Chosen of Mystra" crap is just an excuse to make Mystras (ie TSRs) Chosen far above the lowly PCs (read, scum). The PCs have no chance to ever be on an equal footing in FR - there seems to be a 40th level wiz around every corner. >And yes I ahve played in Fr and run FR. But it reduces the DM to the function of a hologram generator, and the players (myself included) just keep thinking, "gee, where was this ripped off from ? It's hauntingly familiar, and obviously an import from somewhere... oh yeah! Runequest/oh yeah! D&D/oh yeah! Palladium/oh yeah! Tolkien..." and while the rest of the hobby moves on there is TSR smothering Mystara/Blackmoor and prospering Forgettable Realms. So sad. So typical. So TSR / Witherers of the Creative. You're depressing me with the truth. Mystara (with the possible exception of Birthright, which I know nothing about) is the only campaign where the PCs can ever have a noticeable impact on the campaign world. Thats the main reason, I think, of why Mystara is The Best - it is more interactive, and not just immutable story. Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 13:10:10 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Draconic Immortals On Fri, 1 May 1998, [iso-8859-1] Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: >rise to replace Dragon Rulers who die.) Also, I see no reason why Dragons Umm.. Immortals can't "die" unless they are killed on their home plane. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 10:34:45 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Take a Chill Pill ><< Another issue -- in order to reach Cimarron, the Ethengars would have to >conquer a lot of other nations in between. By the time Ethengar is a threat to Cimarron, they would have to control so much of the world that >nobody would be able to stand up to them. >> >Please don't bother us with useless informations. We were talking about a hypothetical situaition, weren't we? Just remember, oh great Khan, Information is Ammunition. -Victor Steiner, Battletech ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 19:42:42 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - CAMPAIGN - Netbook of Political Revolution excerpt On Fri, 1 May 1998, The Astronauts' Guild wrote: >Hi everybody! >I am doing the Netbook of Political Revolution at present, here is a bit of it. Any additions pls email me direct c/o geckoes as above. I guess this shouldnt have been sent as an attachment, but I managaed to read it anyway. What I miss here are things like What Anarchy really is (most people dont seem to know), positive sides of Communism (Maybe way outside the scope of this article, but even though you point out the danger of revolution, you dont give us any good ideas how to avoid the dangers of ending up with a corrupt system like the ones you describe. Sincerely Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 10:43:50 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Best Modules!!! >>Alan Shutko pontificated: >>>I don't have my copy of the ballot anymore, but I'm quite sure that ToEE isn't on there (having looked) and I don't think GDQ is either, since it also had a series revival, iirc. >Actually ToEE is suppose to be reprinted this year as part of the annual >TOME series, it's called return to the Temple of Elemental Evil, and it has a reprinted copy of the original inside, should be out this summer. My Bad, the reprinted module is really Tomb of Horrors, the being reprinted with it's soon to be released sequel return to the Tomb Of Horrors, my apologizes. 'Playing football is like making love to a woman, once you score it makes trying all worthwhile." Chef, Southpark ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 20:46:20 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) >You're depressing me with the truth. Mystara (with the possible exception of Birthright, which I know nothing about) is the only campaign where the PCs can ever have a noticeable impact on the campaign world. Thats the main reason, I think, of why Mystara is The Best - it is more interactive, and not just immutable story. That's strange. In my FR campaign the PCs have had a noticeable impact on the campaign world. And I don't even diverge from the official material that much. ************ Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 10:51:13 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara rob wrote on 4/28/98 >Does anyone out there use the AD+D psionics rules in Mystara? (I know, >its a D+D world...). I would be interested to know how/if others use them. i don't use Psionic, it kinda break my campaigns, right i'm allow it, but only as one of those Skill + Powers items as described in Dragon magazines, second Annual issue, and Dragon 246. Playing football is like making love to a woman, once you score it makes all the trying worthwhile. - chef, Southpark ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 10:51:37 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara rob wrote on 4/28/98 >Does anyone out there use the AD+D psionics rules in Mystara? (I know, >its a D+D world...). I would be interested to know how/if others use them. i don't use Psionic, it kinda break my campaigns, right i'm allow it, but only as one of those Skill + Powers items as described in Dragon magazines, second Annual issue, and Dragon 246. Playing football is like making love to a woman, once you score it makes all the trying worthwhile. - chef, South Park ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 10:53:51 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara rob wrote on 4/28/98 >Does anyone out there use the AD+D psionics rules in Mystara? (I know, >its a D+D world...). I would be interested to know how/if others use them. i don't use Psionic, it kinda break my campaigns, right i'm allow it, but only as one of those Skill + Powers items as described in Dragon magazines, second Annual issue, and Dragon 246. Playing football is like making love to a woman, once you score it makes all the trying worthwhile. - chef, South Park ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 20:00:07 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Draconic Immortals On Fri, 1 May 1998, SteelAngel wrote: >On Fri, 1 May 1998, [iso-8859-1] Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: >>rise to replace Dragon Rulers who die.) Also, I see no reason why Dragons >Umm.. Immortals can't "die" unless they are killed on their home plane. I know. Well they could "fade" due to not being worshipped any more, but that seems unlikely for the Dragon Rulers. The Immortal Guardians also serve as messengers and servants of the Dragon rulers. Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 14:10:46 EDT From: Duncan TKD Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals Thanks for clarifying that for me. Alex. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 11:17:59 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara on 4/27/98 Ron wrote: >My opinion on psionics is that they do exist on Mystara but are very rare--a >true psionicist would make a great villain, but I would never allow a PC to >have those powers. I'm reading the Illithiad currently and learning some >interesting things about how the mind flayers understand and use psionics. >2nd edition psionics rules are very powerful, but only if you have many people >running around using them. >Ron I'm Illithiad, and i'm thinking of placing them in the central, vadri Plateau north of Sind, with an southeastern access point near Graez, Glantri, for my campaign, before setting up a page of the Illithiad on Mystara Online. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 14:23:10 EDT From: Duncan TKD Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara Please don't send a letter more than once. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 14:32:00 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara At 02:23 PM 5/1/98 EDT, you wrote: >Please don't send a letter more than once. Please don't send a letter that has so little "meat" as to be confusing. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 14:36:14 EDT From: LandoTW Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Best Modules!!! There is a slot for ToEE on the ballot...in the T1-T4 spot... Al *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 14:41:31 -0400 From: Daly Subject: [MYSTARA] - Best Modules!!! Has everyone voted on the 4 best modules yet? I have reattached Geoff Gander's excellent summary below. However, I have an alternate choice for the final module. Instead of B4, what about the Master of the Desert Nomad series. All three modules in one huge reprinting! It would continue the B10, X1, X11 theory of providing an overview of Mystara. Including the Great Waste and the lands of the hideous Master provides a huge amount of geographical info as well as an awesome enemy. If everyone agrees on B4, though, I will go along just to add weight. Let me know what ya'll think! >I have bought Dragon #247, and, in addition to the article on Rakasta, I have the ballot for our vote to restore Mystara to her rightful place. >First, in reading the ballot, we can vote for up to FOUR modules, and not just one (I think this needs to be clear - some people were talking about choosing only one), and the deadline is July 31, 1998. >Now, the main part of this note to everyone: Since we can vote for up to four, why not synchronize our votes on the top four (instead of just one) - so we stand at chance of at least, maybe, getting one republished, but could, if we're lucky, get all four? >So, since we all seem to agree that B10 should be republished (I'd like one with all the playing pieces *g*), how about the other three? >I nominate X11 (Saga of the Shadowlord) as well, this is the module that provides the most canon info on Wendar and Denagoth, as well as being extremely well-written and consistent. Many people seem to be having trouble getting these, so I think we should choose this one, too. >Now, as for the other two, may I propose the following: >X1 (Isle of Dread) Classic jungle romp with dinos! All the more interesting now that Jurassic Park has become a household word. Also provides interesting scenarios for exploration, and fighting the decadent Kopru. Also, the fact that it takes place on an island chain means that DMs using other games could more easily insert it into their campaigns. This module could readily be the start of a campaign - extra info is provided for this. >And, for more selfish reasons: >B4 (The Lost City) Perhaps (apart from a couple measly paragraphs in WotI) the only official source on information concerning the Lost City of Cynidicea - a scenario that could be inserted readily in any campaign, in any place. It provides interesting details on the history of the city, the politics of the different factions, and a really cool ultra-villain - Zargon (players who fight this dude will never forget him, even if they want to....). IMO this module is rather hard to find, and the classic idea of a dungeon crawl, mixed with a bit of archaeology and "fighting ancient evils" would be a hit with players. Plus, there is ample scope to turn this adventure into a full-scale campaign (good info is provided on this), once the main adventure is over. I really like it, and I think others would, too, if they could get ahold of it. >Now, I've said my piece, but I REALLY think we should vote for B10 and X11 (I'm not budging on either of these) - those two modules have been acknowledged by many to be classics, and a must in anyone's adventure collection. The last two are my own preference, just to get the ball rolling. >I will not cast my vote just yet - I'll wait a few weeks to see what the consensus becomes. I just wanted to share the news that we could get up to four modules reprinted. This is probably the best chance we'll get to see any D&D material come out for quite a while (if at all), let's make our votes count!! The more unified we are, the better off we'll be. >A final note - I'm sorry if I came across as blunt or rude, this was not intended - I just see this as a golden opportunity to get what we want, and I think this is extremely important. >Thanks, >Geoff *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #262 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 05:37:25 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #263 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Saturday, May 2 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 263 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sea of Dread Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Best Modules!!! Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Best Modules!!! Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Clone question Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics vs Magic-users Re: [MYSTARA] - Ahem...Glantri, Ethengar, and others... [MYSTARA] - TSR's plan to reprint the best modules Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's plan to reprint the best modules Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's plan to reprint the best modules Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's plan to reprint the best modules Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's plan to reprint the best modules [MYSTARA] - Galactic Fed? Re: [MYSTARA] - Galactic Fed? Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's plan to reprint the best modules Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's plan to reprint the best modules ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 20:49:07 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sea of Dread On Fri, 1 May 1998, Cecil Cosman wrote: >I'm looking for information of the arpeligo in the Sea of Dread. I have no idea how to spell it off hand. It's something like Than... whatever. I seem to recall hearing about someone that runs a camp there. I'm aware of two modules that flesh out 2 of the islands. Drums on Fire Mountain and Isle of Dread. Just wondering if anyone knew of more info I could obtain. Thanegioth Archipelago? Champions of Mystara, boxed set gives you some additional info. Otherwise you will have to flesh out the rest yourself, unless someone in here can help you out. Tarzan might be a good source of inspiration though. Hope this mail wasnt totally useless t you. Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 19:51:00 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) >That's strange. In my FR campaign the PCs have had a noticeable impact on the campaign world. And I don't even diverge from the official material that >much. Well, it certainly isnt the Realms ethos. Mystara isnt loaded with unbelievably hard mages (Glantri pales to the Realms) and the Realms definitely has a limit on what the PCs can get up to. In Mystara the players can almost completely rewrite the world - and whats more, its expected of them. Like the part of Vengeance of Alphaks where the PCs negotiate the treaty between Thyatis and Alphatia. In the Realms Halaster sits in his Undermountain, Khelben sits in Waterdeep, Elminster sits wherever he wants, and Mystra sits above them all. And no matter what you do, that will not change. Whereas on Mystara the beluvved Thincol is dust, the Alphatian Empire has sunk, Glantrian Principalities have been trashed... in this is the canon. PCs can affect whether the above happens or not! I think a good timeline is essential for a campaign. And the Realms hasnt got one - at least not a well published one. It could be said the the Almanacs are the secret of Mystaras brilliance. I dont like to see things set in stone. Like Rad disappearing - thats kewl! (yes I know Etiennes back...) Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 20:57:42 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Best Modules!!! On Fri, 1 May 1998, Daly wrote: >Has everyone voted on the 4 best modules yet? I have reattached Geoff Gander's excellent summary below. However, I have an alternate choice for the final module. Instead of B4, what about the Master of the Desert Nomad series. All three modules in one huge reprinting! It would continue the B10, X1, X11 theory of providing an overview of Mystara. Including the Great Waste and the lands of the hideous Master provides a huge amount of geographical info as well as an awesome enemy. If everyone agrees on B4, though, I will go along just to add weight. >Let me know what ya'll think! Im surprised noone mentioned the Hollow World Triolgy. Though the ending is a bit corny, they are increadibly well done. I think they are even better than b10. Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 15:03:30 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) At 07:51 PM 5/1/98 +0100, you wrote: >>That's strange. In my FR campaign the PCs have had a noticeable impact on the campaign world. And I don't even diverge from the official material tthat >>much. >Well, it certainly isnt the Realms ethos. Mystara isnt loaded with unbelievably hard mages (Glantri pales to the Realms) and the Realms definitely has a limit on what the PCs can get up to. But any mage in Alphatia can kick the crud out of the Realms or Glantri. :p >In Mystara the players can almost completely rewrite the world - and whats more, its expected of them. Like the part of Vengeance of Alphaks where the PCs negotiate the treaty between Thyatis and Alphatia. You are referring to a specific level of play. I am sure that 30th level characters can change any world. >In the Realms Halaster sits in his Undermountain, Khelben sits in Waterdeep, Elminster sits wherever he wants, and Mystra sits above them all. And no matter what you do, that will not change. It depends on the DM. Just imagine the chaos if Khelben was assasinated. Just imagine the chaos if Eriadna was assasinated... >Whereas on Mystara the beluvved Thincol is dust, the Alphatian Empire has sunk, Glantrian Principalities have been trashed... in this is the canon. PCs can affect whether the above happens or not! You are referring to a specific campaign even that may or may not have occurred in a given campaign. Every setting has had one of these "major" events. Greyhawk and FR have each done their thing. >I think a good timeline is essential for a campaign. And the Realms hasnt got one - at least not a well published one. It could be said the the Almanacs are the secret of Mystaras brilliance. I dont like to see things set in stone. Like Rad disappearing - thats kewl! (yes I know Etiennes back...) Well I agree with the historical timeline part...I have often said that Mystara has great potential for time travel... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 15:05:10 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Best Modules!!! At 08:57 PM 5/1/98 +0200, you wrote: >On Fri, 1 May 1998, Daly wrote: >Im surprised noone mentioned the Hollow World Triolgy. Though the ending is a bit corny, they are increadibly well done. I think they are even better than b10. They were mentioned earlier on the MML. I can't remember if any HW stuff is on the list, but either way, I believe HW is best for advanced users. We are mainly concerned with good overall "intro" modules. B10, X1, X11, and the Master series provide for a good overview. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 15:11:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) At 07:51 PM 5/1/98 +0100, you wrote: >Well, it certainly isnt the Realms ethos. Mystara isnt loaded with unbelievably hard mages (Glantri pales to the Realms) and the Realms definitely has a limit on what the PCs can get up to. I totally agree; even Alphatia seems small compared to the wizards floating around in the Realms. And I challenge anyone to name a single Mystaran NPC who could last more than five rounds against Drizzt. Why would there even be PCs in the Realms when they've got so many invincible characters like Elminster and Drizzt floating around? Yuck. At least in Dragonlance major characters get killed on occasion (lots of them in Dragons of Summer Flame; yowtch!) >In Mystara the players can almost completely rewrite the world - and whats more, its expected of them. Like the part of Vengeance of Alphaks where the PCs negotiate the treaty between Thyatis and Alphatia. Or the Hollow World's Blood Brethren trilogy; talk about earth-shaking consequences! And there's no section on 'How to make sure your players don't screw up the entire setting' in the Mystaran adventures. Has anyone actually played the Avatar trilogy? Talk about railroading! That series violated every single guideline ever mentioned by Gygax and other early D&D moguls on letting the PCs have freedom to do what they want. I haven't seen the Volo modules, but apparently they're even worse. >I think a good timeline is essential for a campaign. And the Realms hasnt got one - at least not a well published one. It could be said the the Almanacs are the secret of Mystaras brilliance. I dont like to see things set in stone. Like Rad disappearing - thats kewl! (yes I know Etiennes back...) The timeline in the Hollow World boxed set is the most detailed I've ever seen for an RPG. Absolutely brilliant work. And the best thing about the Almanacs is not the detail on the nations, or the armies, or the NPCs, or even the yearly events calendar. The best thing about the Almanacs is the 'What the PCs can do' section in so many of the entries. Make something happen! Change the world! Now that's a great setting! Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 20:46:34 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) >>Well, it certainly isnt the Realms ethos. Mystara isnt loaded with unbelievably hard mages (Glantri pales to the Realms) and the Realms definitely has a limit on what the PCs can get up to. >But any mage in Alphatia can kick the crud out of the Realms or Glantri. :p >>In Mystara the players can almost completely rewrite the world - and whats more, its expected of them. Like the part of Vengeance of Alphaks where the PCs negotiate the treaty between Thyatis and Alphatia. >You are referring to a specific level of play. I am sure that 30th level characters can change any world. >>In the Realms Halaster sits in his Undermountain, Khelben sits in Waterdeep, Elminster sits wherever he wants, and Mystra sits above them all. >>And no matter what you do, that will not change. >It depends on the DM. Just imagine the chaos if Khelben was assasinated. Just imagine the chaos if Eriadna was assasinated... Well, that goes without saying. But I reckon every campaign world has a certain ethos to it. I wouldnt run a low fantasy campaign in Krynn, for example, because it is not appropriate. And I wouldnt run some Realms countrybusting either, because i dont think that is appropriate too. >>Whereas on Mystara the beluvved Thincol is dust, the Alphatian Empire has sunk, Glantrian Principalities have been trashed... in this is the canon. PCs can affect whether the above happens or not! YYou are referring to a specific campaign even that may or may not have occurred in a given campaign. Every setting has had one of these "major" events. Greyhawk and FR have each done their thing. Like I said, I'm only really talking about canon here. The DM is boss, and what he says happens in the Realms goes. But I consider a campaign to be cool if it is more conducive to the style of play I like. And the Realms doesnt fit the bill. Mystara is far more realistic - countries actually have foreign policies which are thought out, the campaign hangs well together (mostly), and things have (realistic) reasons for happening other than Plot Twist. The Realms is a real dungeon bash campaign - adventurers go out, trash bad guys, and go home to the pub at the end of the day. Mystara is more county oriented - which I personally prefer. Of course, individual DMs could change this - but whats the point when there is a far more appropriate setting? I think Leroy mentioned something about picking and choosing campaign worlds to whatever is appropriate to the story. I agree - but there are better settings than the Realms for individualistic stuff. Like Ravenloft. >>I think a good timeline is essential for a campaign. And the Realms hasnt got one - at least not a well published one. It could be said the the >>Almanacs are the secret of Mystaras brilliance. I dont like to see things set in stone. Like Rad disappearing - thats kewl! (yes I know Etiennes back...) >Well I agree with the historical timeline part...I have often said that Mystara has great potential for time travel... Yeah, i have chronomancers as well as everything else IMC... (No PC ones yet tho). Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 12:50:42 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Clone question Dm Wrote on 28APR98: >That's my question of the day: >with the Clone spell, what does it mean "human" and "non human"? I mean, it >says that human and demi-humans are cloned normally (cost: 5,000 gp per HD), >while non-humans are cloned as simulacri (500 gp per HD) who are controlled >by the wizard. Now i ask you, does the "human and demi-human" term includes >also "humanoid" like goblinoid races, rakastas, lupins and maybe alien humanoid races (like Emerondians or members of the Galactic Federation)? i think that TSR needs to seriously revise the term non-human, their idea of Demi-human might be creatures with human features but happen to have a size difference. The Galactic Fed. and the Emerondians would fit as being human. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 17:13:42 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics vs Magic-users << So as for spells and power, we are talking about plagues and natural devastation, along with the healing of course. These are not wimpy little guys who beg mages to leave them alone. They are extremely powerful, and scary sometimes. >> This remembers me of my own cleric. This man is a cleric 16 of Valerias and he is likewise paranoid as arrogant. In the last dozens battles normally he stood in the background and watched his comrades fighting while he used his spells to find out what was really going on AND to destroy some of the enemies' magic. One typical scene: One of the dwarves died and was replaced by the other Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 05:37:25 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #263 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com dwarf and a half-elf fighter. He decided not to engage into the fight right now. Instead he castes a "Raise Dead" and two "Curealls" to the dwarf and sent him back to battle. O.k., after that he fought himself, as the enemy was resistant to all kinds of magic. Another scene: He has a stomach-ache and casts a "Cure Disease" onto himself; he casts a "Destroy Evil" on a already beaten undead beholder and destroys him, and so on. For most situations there are some appropiates spells and he goes through life throwing spells to the left and to the right. And don't forget the escape spell par excellence: "Recall" !! Not so good for a cleric in a group, additionally my cleric is not in his home plane as long as he has this spell and he hasn't a center of meditation in this plane, but casted in the right moment only the best mages can do anything against it. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 18:00:59 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ahem...Glantri, Ethengar, and others... << Moreover I don't think shadowelves have much interest conquering Glantri or helping those stinking horselover nomads from Ethengar (no offense intended Jamuga, I like Ethengar :). >> I knew you would say something like that. The GAZ stated it this way, so I'm not insulted. :-) Vice versa, the Ethengar horse warrior wouldn't know what to do with these scheming cave crawlers (dito: no offense intended :-) ) Jamuga Khan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 15:37:37 -0700 From: Dave Keyser Subject: [MYSTARA] - TSR's plan to reprint the best modules I learned on the rec.games.frp.dnd newsgroup that TSR plans to release these modules with some special covers and new art, and the only changes will be, "editing, and updating these modules for second edition." Can't...resist...the...urge...to...criticize...TSR... I sincerely hope this is wrong, but I suspect it is true. Which means that even if D&D modules make the top four, they will not be printed as before, they will be "updated". I don't object to converting these modules to 2nd edition in principle, as long as it is done correctly. But to do it correctly, TSR needs someone who is thoroughly familiar with both D&D and AD&D2. And quite frankly, I don't think they have anyone left who knows anything about D&D. As evidence for my claim, I submit the two AD&D boxed sets. GKoM and KKoA were nothing but stripped down versions of GAZ3 and GAZ1, coverted to AD&D. For only two or three times the price, I got a bunch of mistakes in the conversion, as well some of the creative sections drained out. I want to see these D&D modules reprinted, but I don't want watered down imitations. Now if TSR does plan to update D&D modules to 2nd edition AD&D, I would rather have them reprint those which are easier to convert, to reduce the chance of screwups. All the B modules would be straightforward and simple, I don't believe there would be any problems. B10 is a good choice. Most of the X modules can also be converted easily. X10 would be a problem, as all of the military unit statistics are in War Machine and Battlesystem terms. Neither is supported by TSR anymore. CM1 is worse off than X10, it only has war machine stats. CM2-4 are possible, as they do not emphasize large scale battles. CM6 has one chapter based on War Machine. CM7-9 are also convertible, although CM8 would probably knock a few levels off the mages, and CM7 would have to throw out the final battle. The M modules are too high-powered, the opponents would have to be weakened to fit into AD&D, which generally keeps limits to 20th level. The IM modules simply don't work in AD&D2. Dave *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 18:54:43 EDT From: LandoTW Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's plan to reprint the best modules In a message dated 98-05-01 18:45:41 EDT, you write: << The M modules are too high-powered, the opponents would have to be weakened to fit into AD&D, which generally keeps limits to 20th level. >> Limits to 20th Level? You call this a limitation???? Maybe its just cause I'm used to AD&D 2nd Edition.....but I have never had a character even come close to 20th level, much less go higher! I know that in D&D it was possible to continue in level as long as the accepted numerical structure held out...How do you challenge a 34th Level Wizard??? Its just something I never really agreed with much, but thats just one persons opinion. Just for my two cents worth, I voted for the following modules on my ballot: The Desert Nomad Series (X something or another) The Temple of Elemental Evil Series (T1-T4) The (something I cant remember) Series ( L1 & L2) The Slavers Series (A1-A4) They may not all be Mystara modules, but as I stated in an earlier post, these are the ones that bring back fond memories for me. Al *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 18:29:58 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) Leroy Van Camp III wrote: >Alot of stuff< Boy, Leroy! You sure stepped into it with this one ;> Mind if I wade in? As for me? I love the Realms. Everything about it almost... just as I do Mystara. Mystara has had a great many things that the Realms is getting now. The basic ideas were inspired elsewhere for both worlds so saying that Mystara is more original than the Realms is a bunch of hooey (here in the South we have another term but this is mixed company ;) The Realms has too many high level wizards compared to Mystara?? Now that was too funny! Players can affect Mystara but not the Realms?? Another falsehood told by those that apparently don't know what they're talking about. What's really so nice about getting to read some of these comments is they sound an awful lot like the comments of some of the fans of Greyhawk. In fact, I could substitute Greyhawk for Mystara and it would be identical. Greyhawk is a great setting too but some of its fans seem to think they are the only true role players. That the Realms stifle creativity. That a setting that is practically the same setup is better than another. It was allot of cow poop on the Greyhawk list and its still cow poop here. I love Mystara but in no way do I see the need to knock another setting (and, indirectly, its fans that may be fans of the setting I favor most). It all sounds like jealousy to me. I, for one, am jealous of the Realms compared to Mystara. I wish we could get that much material published. I picked up the Realms after a slow period in my gaming. There wasn't much for Mystara (the Known World, then) at the time and I'm glad I did. I still buy the stuff and get many hours of enjoyment from it. I still take stuff from the different settings and work it into my games. Playing in my campaign may mean you get to see a piece of a Realms source book here, or a Greyhawk module there or a Dark sun idea later. And if I run a Realms game, then you're going to get the same. It's okay to have favorites. I do but everyone should know that Mystara will continue on its own not because its not the Realms. Oh, I have to add this. If some Guild thinks they should degrade what ever they please without someone saying anything against them doing so then please, please take my advice here. Address your email to majordomo@mpgn.com and put the 'unsubscribe mystara-l' in the body of the email. It works much better than way. Bye bye! ;> Oh, for everyone else. I've not really had much to say on the list lately since I've been busy and nothing has caught my attention till now. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 19:02:15 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's plan to reprint the best modules What I'd like to see is a strong showing for all the oD&D modules that they just decide to stick em in a book together. No updates just a collection. Ah, to dream... - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 20:42:18 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's plan to reprint the best modules On Fri, 1 May 1998, Dave Keyser wrote: >The M modules are too high-powered, the opponents would have to be weakened to fit into AD&D, which generally keeps limits to 20th level. Bah. Keep the nasties at the same level of power. I'd love to see a 20 level AD&D mage get his butt kicked, while my nice level 35 Mages clean up. >The IM modules simply don't work in AD&D2. Yeppers. And this is the problem inherent in any AD&D translation.. I wonder if the new breed of Mystara players will consider the Immortals just "Gods" That can be killed by mortals. That's sad. The whole mystique of the Immortals would be lost. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 20:44:56 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's plan to reprint the best modules On Fri, 1 May 1998, LandoTW wrote: >Limits to 20th Level? You call this a limitation???? Maybe its just cause I'm used to AD&D 2nd Edition.....but I have never had a character even come close to 20th level, much less go higher! I know that in D&D it was possible to continue in level as long as the accepted numerical structure held out...How do you challenge a 34th Level Wizard??? Its just something I never really agreed with much, but thats just one persons opinion. On Mystara, the maximum level is 36, enforced by the Immortals. And it is very easy to challenge a 30 level wizard. Especially on the day of dread :) Also If I remember correctly, the level structure doesn't mmatch evenly. 36th level D&D != 36 Lvl AD&D Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 01:11:29 EDT From: Duncan TKD Subject: [MYSTARA] - Galactic Fed? What is the Galactic Fed.? I have only just reciently heard of this organization and would like to know more about it. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 14:50:46 -0000 From: "george graybill" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Galactic Fed? Hello. The galactic fed was this sort of "star wars" like senate/space force thingy on the other side of the universe. i honestly dont remember the specifics of it all. its in an old supplement called city of the gods. i hope that helped in some way...i havent read that thing in years but they did send a ship tp mystara and the people aboard became the blackmoor society (which explained why they were so advanced) - -----Original Message----- From: Duncan TKD To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM Date: Saturday, May 02, 1998 5:51 AM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Galactic Fed? >What is the Galactic Fed.? I have only just reciently heard of this organization and would like to know more about it. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 10:23:26 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's plan to reprint the best modules >>The M modules are too high-powered, the opponents would have to be weakened to fit into AD&D, which generally keeps limits to 20th level. AD+D characters are a lot more powerful for their level than D+D ones. As an example I the ran Vengeance of Alphaks and Talons of Night adventures for 12-14th level AD+D characters. It was hard, but they did it. One PC death - and he was resurrected. Also looking at the pregenerated characters on the back of those boxes - those 14th level AD+D characters could have had their ass. I consider level 36 in D+D to roughly equal about level 20-24 in AD+D. Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 10:34:12 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's plan to reprint the best modules >I don't object to converting these modules to 2nd edition in principle, as long as it is done correctly. But to do it correctly, TSR needs someone >who is thoroughly familiar with both D&D and AD&D2. And quite frankly, I don't think they have anyone left who knows anything about D&D. Skip Williams? I know he's now the Sage, but he still works there, right? He wrote those kewl Master level adventures. >As evidence for my claim, I submit the two AD&D boxed sets. GKoM and KKoA were nothing but stripped down versions of GAZ3 and GAZ1, coverted to AD&D. For only two or three times the price, I got a bunch of mistakes in the conversion, as well some of the creative sections drained out. I didn't have the original Glantri gaz, but from what I've seen bouncing around in here I guess I'd have to agree with you. But the spells and circles were very, very cool. I dont know about the Karameikos gaz. I have that one - I think the content of KKoA is about equal in quality, but its a lot more readable and better presented. Whenever I want to look up some trivia on Karameikos its the KKoA that I go to. About the price - I agree. Why did they put those CDs in there? Why.... No wonder nobody bought them for £20, when everything else is £12. Cheerz all ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #263 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 12:33:57 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #264 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Saturday, May 2 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 264 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Draconic Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) [MYSTARA] - Chronomancy Re: [MYSTARA] - Clone question Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) [MYSTARA] - Complete Handbood series (was Psionics in Mystara) Re: [MYSTARA] - Vanya in Alphatia Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Hello Mystara! [MYSTARA] - Re: A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri's clerical knowledge Re: [MYSTARA] - Draconic Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri's clerical knowledge Re: [MYSTARA] - Galactic Fed? Re: [MYSTARA] - Galactic Fed? Re: [MYSTARA] - Draconic Immortals [MYSTARA] - Illithids (was Psionics in Mystara) Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's plan to reprint the best modules Re: [MYSTARA] - Clone question Re: [MYSTARA] - Sea of Dread [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] The Role of Knights ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 07:37:35 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Draconic Immortals >Umm.. Immortals can't "die" unless they are killed on their home plane. >> IIRC that's one of the ways a guardian could obtain it....or a lack of faith to a certain Dragon Ruler could as well. It's like a runner-up......if the real one can't continue as an Immortal for whatever reason.....the Guardian takes the spot. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 07:46:12 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) >Well, it certainly isnt the Realms ethos. Mystara isnt loaded with unbelievably hard mages (Glantri pales to the Realms) and the Realms definitely has a limit on what the PCs can get up to. I disagree. Mystara was created as the most magical world TSR has released. It may not have an Elminster.....but i'm sure there's much more quantity of high level mages, or magical items in Mystara compared to the Realms. >In Mystara the players can almost completely rewrite the world - and whats more, its expected of them. Like the part of Vengeance of Alphaks where the PCs negotiate the treaty between Thyatis and Alphatia. I agree. Mark of Amber....and many other Mystaran modules were written with low-medium-high level characters which could change a major event in the world...or at least play a part in how it all unfolds. The setting also left most of Davania and Skothar blank....which allows DMs to do projects on the missing pieces, and add whatever they want to the backround info on the planet. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 07:51:28 EDT From: Inconu Subject: [MYSTARA] - Chronomancy << Well I agree with the historical timeline part...I have often said that Mystara has great potential for time travel... >> Talking about time travel.....I was wondering if anyone has integrated chronomancy into thier mystara. Seeing how Mystara is so full of magic, it would make sense for Chronomancy to be used somewhere in Mystara. IMC i have it as a lost art, something used back around the time of Blackmoor and disappearing around 2500-3000 BC.....however a few NPCs have unearthed the lost arts and may use them. For those who might not know...Chronomancy is the art of using magic to manipulate time. Anyone use it? - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 07:54:16 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Clone question << i think that TSR needs to seriously revise the term non-human, their idea of Demi-human might be creatures with human features but happen to have a size difference. The Galactic Fed. and the Emerondians would fit as being human. >> Demi-humans are the elves, dwarfs, gnomes and halflings.....the Emerondians would be humanoid IMO. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 08:12:32 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) In a message dated 98-04-26 12:09:37 EDT, Alex295@aol.com writes: >And since the two spell systems are different in source (research vs. ggranting) the mages may not understand the properties of clerical magic. That >the mages have exhiled clerics displays their fear and/or uneasiness. Out of >sight, out of mind works well but it also robs the mages of a chance to analyze clerical magic. Hence a lack of understanding. The above would certainly be true for Glantrians who never left their nation to adventure in foreign lands -- but quite a few do just that. Those Glantrians would gain a more accurate insight into the strengths and limitations of priestly magic. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 08:13:27 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: [MYSTARA] - Complete Handbood series (was Psionics in Mystara) In a message dated 98-04-28 11:52:07 EDT, eand@WPI.EDU writes: >Also we're considering Mystara here. Are AD&D Complete Handbooks really vvalid in this setting? Sure Mystara is now AD&D officially, but how many of us still convert back to oD&D? Since most of those books don't make much reference to the features of Mystara that I have argued are different from those of standard AD&D game worlds, 90+% of the material in those books is usable with D&D. Kits, especially, are easy to convert, especially if they are not highly dependent on references to wizard schools, priestly spheres, and NWP cross-over groups (none of which have any D&D counterpart). As for psionics -- there is no way to convert it to D&D, as D&D has no psionics rules of its own. If you want to use psionics in a D&D campaign, you pretty much have to import the AD&D rules for it in their entirety and make a few minor adjustments to account for differences in those game mechanics that do overlap -- namely combat statistics and level limits. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 08:13:35 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Vanya in Alphatia In a message dated 98-04-28 14:58:06 EDT, jdaly@friend.ly.net writes: >Say, someone tell me quick, what is it Rathanos does??? >At 07:30 PM 4/28/98 +0200, you wrote: >>Alex wrote: (rest of very long quote snipped) I hate to pick on somebody, but this posting is an example of excessive quoting -- an entire post is repeated even though the poster is responding to a small portion of it. You really should try to edit the quoted material down. Also, try to name the person you are quoting if at all possible -- "you wrote" is incorrect, as at most one of the subscribers to the MML actually wrote what is being quoted. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 08:13:41 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara In a message dated 98-04-29 15:32:27 EDT, Inconu@aol.com writes: >It would be much better than saying "There's a new country oof psionics near the Known World" then the next day saying "Just forget about that last adventure guys". Of course reality shifts are fairly easy to handle on Mystara -- keep in mind that this is a setting where Immortals seem to enjoy altering the memories of mortals and both mortals and Immortals are occasionally able to find ways to travel back in time and alter history. I wonder if either of these practices could explain some of the stranger inconsistencies in the Mystara setting? If so, what would "the truth" be? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 08:13:46 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals In a message dated 98-04-29 19:07:33 EDT, eand@WPI.EDU writes: >I'm confuzzled here. AFAIK, each dragon ruler is an actual dragon that has aacheived immortality by defeating the current dragon immortal. Thus, if Jaggar defeated the Star dragon, he won the title, and became the immortal ruler of the Lawful dragons. He renounced that (maybe because he actually wansn't a dragon) and therefore became mortal again, and the previous Star dragon resumed his post. Each dragon ruler has a mortal form as described in the D&D Rules Cyclopedia -- as far as most mortals (including most dragons) are concerned, there is no difference between a dragon ruler and his mortal form, even though the difference is extremely significant to the Immortals. When a fifth circle Dracologist defeats the dragon ruler of his alignment he assumes that mortal form and banishes the corresponding dragon Immortal from the Prime Plane but does not himself become an Immortal, although he is entitled to rule the mortal dragons of his alignment for the duration of his mortal life. But it appears that the craft of Dracology permamently lost the ability of assuming dragon ruler form when Jaggar relinquished this title -- but the craft is now in a friendlier relationship with dragons in general. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 08:13:55 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals In a message dated 98-04-30 20:34:14 EDT, eand@WPI.EDU writes: >But it does give him the power of an immortal, which usurps every iimmortal's superiority. I guess I'm probably Interpreting it wrong anyway. Okay, here is a way to look at it: Suppose that a Glantrian wizard of maximum level manages to bump off Prince Etienne and take his place. To all intents and purposes, he has become Etienne -- but he is still mortal and has not replaced Rad, even though he may have used some magic that would prevent Rad from re-creating an Etienne identity under his own control. And even if the entire population of New Averoigne is obligated to serve him, you had believe that Etienne will be busy behind the scenes making life miserable for the imposter. The preceding summary, I think, is very much analagous to the situation that a 5th circle Dracologist who assumes the form of a dragon ruler would find himself in. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 08:13:53 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals In a message dated 98-04-30 16:56:29 EDT, eand@WPI.EDU writes: >But he is still a mortal. According to the WotI codex, NO mortal can hold ppower over the immortals, thus mortal magics don't affect immortals, and Immortals can only be affected by +5 weapons. >Again, this is a DM call, but I personally reject ANYTHING that gives a mortal power over things like Immortals, or blackballs, or Old Ones or whatever. The problem goes away if you assume that the Dragon Rulers as depicted in the D&D Rules Cyclopedia are the mortal identity forms of the Dragon Rulers. A 5th circle Dracologist cannot defeat a Dragon Ruler in its Manifestation form -- but he could very well defeat its mortal identity, and it is my understanding that that is exactly what he would have to do to "become" a dragon ruler. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 08:13:56 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Hello Mystara! What good is the Forgotten Realms setting? As far as I am concerned, it is useful mainly as a resource to raid for fleshing out the settings of various Mystaran nations. For an example, take Ylaruam -- there is very little information about it beyond what is found in Gaz 2 and a couple of other sources. But the Forgotten Realms setting has all that Al-Qadim material that describes a very similar setting. With some judicious selections, much of this material can be lifted and used to elaborate on Ylari society and characters. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 08:13:59 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) In a message dated 98-05-01 02:43:55 EDT, malacoda@lesbois.com writes: >While I certainly feel the Hollow World is cool, not having that as part of a seeting is hardly a crime, especially since Mystara is the only setting that leaps to mind that has such a thing. Well, the World of Darkness does, in a way... Not to mention Torg and a couple of others.... No, the Hollow World is really not that unique an idea. Also, there are some real world crackpots who believe that the real Earth is hollow in a similar manner -- and some of them believe that we are living on the inside surface! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 08:56:21 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) In a message dated 98-05-02 08:26:15 EDT, you write: << n a message dated 98-04-26 12:09:37 EDT, Alex295@aol.com writes: >And since the two spell systems are different in source (research vs. ggranting) the mages may not understand the properties of clerical magic. That >the mages have exhiled clerics displays their fear and/or uneasiness. Out of >sight, out of mind works well but it also robs the mages of a chance to analyze clerical magic. Hence a lack of understanding. The above would certainly be true for Glantrians who never left their nation to adventure in foreign lands -- but quite a few do just that. Those Glantrians would gain a more accurate insight into the strengths and limitations of priestly magic. >> Ah a very interesting angle, one that I had not taken into account. So in a post Wrath scenario Glantri would have Jaggar knowing of clerics via his travels in his psuedonym. Morphail would know due to his hatred for clerics and his affliction. Etienne (if present) would know due to being Rad. Brannart would know due to his being able to imprison Sir Bruce, a high level cleric, and keep him imprisoned. Dolores would know since she is Synn and Synn would probably have dealt with them sometime in her dark past. Malachie could probably know of them at least somewhat for his being a lyncanthrope and his expected adventures in and outside of Glantri. Jherek may know some through his covert activivities against the Ethie, but I have always seen Jherek as being so intent on being Glantrian and proving himself Glantrian (a mage) that he may have turned his back on the clerical arts of his forefathers. IMO Julianna would not know cause she was basically a floosey/harlot prior to gaining the throne of her principality. Harald would not either due to his being so intent on wizardly magic. Kol would probably know more about shaman based magics instead of pure clerical magics. Not really sure about the two elven Princesses. I am sure the Erewan probably have some clerical insight due to the whole tree thing. The Belcadiz are more complex due to their being so human. These two are even more gray as the clerical aspects of elven life can be explained as being replaced by either of the secret crafts and wizardly magic. Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 12:33:57 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #264 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com However, the question is how much do each of these cleric knowing Glantrians know about clerics. Are the held knowledge pretty darn good, or just a smattering. IMO experiences with clerical magics vary from person to person. And with all smatterings of knowledge, there is some leeway for misconceptions. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 09:29:04 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri's clerical knowledge << However, the question is how much do each of these cleric knowing Glantrians know about clerics. Are the held knowledge pretty darn good, or just a smattering. IMO experiences with clerical magics vary from person to person. And with all smatterings of knowledge, there is some leeway for misconceptions. Alex >> You should realize that people like Jaggar and Etienne and most of the other princes.... would know quite a good deal about clerics. You can't just look at them in black and white and think....well, since no clerics are in Glantri, many have limited knowledge on them. Jaggar's level is in the twenties and Ettienne in the 30s... These are some of the most experienced individuals on the planet. They've probably dealt with many unique creatures...many different cultures...and a huge amount of clerics in their time. They've all had to of started at level one somewhere along the lines...and regardless of the clerical ban in Glantri, this doesn't stop the princes from leaving Glantri or any of the citizens for that matter. I'm sure most have experienced other countries and have seen many different examples of religion in thier time. Brannart for example, is a brillant man.....er ... lich. I'm sure he's known about clerics before his encounters with Sir Bruce. He knows they can hold power over him, so I'd imagine he probably knows more about certain clerics and religions than he'd ever need to know. Wouldn't that make sense? - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 10:56:06 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Draconic Immortals At 07:37 AM 5/2/98 EDT, you wrote: >>Umm.. Immortals can't "die" unless they are killed on their home plane. >> >IIRC that's one of the ways a guardian could obtain it....or a lack of faith to a certain Dragon Ruler could as well. It's like a runner-up......if the real one can't continue as an Immortal for whatever reason.....the Guardian takes the spot. Exactly so. And just because the Immortals don't often vacate their post or die, does not mean that there does not have to be some vehicle for choosing a new Immortal dragon. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 10:58:37 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) At 07:46 AM 5/2/98 EDT, you wrote: >>Well, it certainly isnt the Realms ethos. Mystara isnt loaded with unbelievably hard mages (Glantri pales to the Realms) and the Realms definitely has a limit on what the PCs can get up to. >I disagree. Mystara was created as the most magical world TSR has released. It may not have an Elminster.....but i'm sure there's much more quantity of high level mages, or magical items in Mystara compared to the Realms. I agree with Inconu here (where does that name come from anyway?). There are many more mages of high level in Mystara. There is not, canonically speaking, a "Gandalf" for the world, though we have discussed making one... I am still considering some ideas in this regard... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 11:02:26 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) At 08:12 AM 5/2/98 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 98-04-26 12:09:37 EDT, Alex295@aol.com writes: >>And since the two spell systems are different in source (research vs. gggranting) the mages may not understand the properties of clerical magic. That >>the mages have exhiled clerics displays their fear and/or uneasiness. Out oof >>sight, out of mind works well but it also robs the mages of a chance to analyze clerical magic. Hence a lack of understanding. >The above would certainly be true for Glantrians who never left their nation to adventure in foreign lands -- but quite a few do just that. Those Glantrians >would gain a more accurate insight into the strengths and limitations of priestly magic. But because of the quest for power among Glantrian wizards, and the general reservedness of the inhabitants, I have no doubts that a traveling Glantrian wizard would not feel any obligation to return home and tell everyone of the power of foriegn clerics except in the vaguest of terms. One of the major limiting factors on Glantri is its "Machievellian" atmosphere. A wizard who unearths an ancient spell is likely to sit on the spell for years as a trump card. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 11:09:16 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara At 08:13 AM 5/2/98 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 98-04-29 15:32:27 EDT, Inconu@aol.com writes: >>It would be much better than saying "There's a new country ooof psionics near the Known World" then the next day saying "Just forget about that last adventure guys". >Of course reality shifts are fairly easy to handle on Mystara -- keep in mind that this is a setting where Immortals seem to enjoy altering the memories of mortals and both mortals and Immortals are occasionally able to find ways to travel back in time and alter history. I wonder if either of these practices >could explain some of the stranger inconsistencies in the Mystara setting? Most people don't like to use "The Immortals did it" to explain everything. Some of us have been running the KW for well over 15 years and there have been no psionics up to this point. To suddenly introduce a psionic country into the KW would be ludicrous. The Immortals are generally more subtle than that. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 11:17:12 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) At 08:56 AM 5/2/98 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 98-05-02 08:26:15 EDT, you write: ><< n a message dated 98-04-26 12:09:37 EDT, Alex295@aol.com writes: IMO Julianna would not know cause she was basically a floosey/harlot prior to gaining the throne of her principality. Now now, Julianna is not a harlot. She is flirtatious, but...did you notice she is the only Volospin who has a lawful alignment? I have played upon this fact in my own campaign...someday I should toss ya'll the full description of the Yellowskull campaign... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 11:20:09 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri's clerical knowledge At 09:29 AM 5/2/98 EDT, you wrote: ><< However, the question is how much do each of these cleric knowing Glantrians >know about clerics. Are the held knowledge pretty darn good, or just a smattering. IMO experiences with clerical magics vary from person to person. And with all smatterings of knowledge, there is some leeway for misconceptions. >Alex >> >You should realize that people like Jaggar and Etienne and most of the other princes.... would know quite a good deal about clerics. This is my point: Yes, the princes would certainly know about clerics, but in their Machiavellian politicking they would choose not to divulge what they know. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 17:40:01 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Galactic Fed? On Sat, 2 May 1998, Duncan TKD wrote: >What is the Galactic Fed.? I have only just reciently heard of this organization and would like to know more about it. Okay. Remember the Radiance? As you may know it was the engine of the Space ship called the FSS Beagle, which was a research vessel for the Galactic Federation. The Galactic Federation is a political entity somehwere, either far away on Prime Material or from another Plane/Dimension. Personally I prefer the theory that they are from the core of Mystaras Galaxy. Not much more is known about them, though Star Trek seems to have been a source of inspiration for these guys. Sincerely Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 12:29:22 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Galactic Fed? On Sat, 2 May 1998, Duncan TKD wrote: >What is the Galactic Fed.? I have only just reciently heard of this organization and would like to know more about it. I beleive it is like the "Star Trek" Federation, except that it does not exist on Mystara's plane. The Beagle accidentally went through a dimentional rift. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 12:30:52 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Draconic Immortals In a message dated 98-05-01 12:23:48 EDT, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no writes: >Anyway, The Glantri Gaz clearly states that the Craft of Drachology is a wway to immortality. Though it seems unlikely that this should be possible, unless the Great One decided that it should be that way.. Can you cite a specific reference to that effect? Assuming the (mortal identity) form of a dragon ruler and taking over his mortal identity's role is a far cry from becoming a true Immortal. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 12:30:59 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: [MYSTARA] - Illithids (was Psionics in Mystara) In a message dated 98-05-01 14:40:44 EDT, mktriton@hotmail.com writes: >I'm Illithiad, and i'm thinking of placing them in the central, vadri PPlateau north of Sind, with an southeastern access point near Graez, Glantri, for my campaign, before setting up a page of the Illithiad on Mystara Online. A more likely location for Illithids would be underground -- so perhaps they dwell in caves underneath that plateau. As they work their way east and south, their first encounters should be with the Shadow Elves and with the Grakhalians (see "Champions of Mystara"). Ultimately they reach locations of critical strategic importance such as Oenkmar, the City of the Stars, and the chamber of the Nucleus of the Spheres. The last part is rather scary -- from what is written in the Illithiad we can suppose that the Illithids would care less about the mutating effects of the Radiance but would be eager to exploit the energy that it produces. What evil could they wreak with such power? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 12:31:11 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's plan to reprint the best modules In a message dated 98-05-01 18:45:41 EDT, dave@palmchip.com writes: >The M modules are too high-powered, the opponents would hhave to be weakened to fit into AD&D, which generally keeps limits to 20th level. A re-issue of the M modules should probably be set up to take advantage of the "High Level Campaigns" supplement. Master level characters would seem to correspond to the level 21-30 range in AD&D. >The IM modules simply don't work in AD&D2. That has always been the biggest incompatibility between D&D and AD&D -- the Immortals are clearly set up for D&D and no AD&D conversions have been published (except on message boards). To re-release the IM series it would probably be necessary to create a boxed set or large book detailing Immortals in AD&D terms and then providing revised versions of the IM adventures. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 12:31:07 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Clone question In a message dated 98-05-01 16:08:08 EDT, mktriton@hotmail.com writes: >i think that TSR needs to seriously revise the term non-human, their iidea of Demi-human might be creatures with human features but happen to have a size difference. The Galactic Fed. and the Emerondians would fit as being human. For the purposes of the Clone spell as defined in the D&D Rules Cyclopedia, it would probably be best to define "human or demi-human" as meaning any creature that qualifies as a person for the purpose of being affected by such spells as "Charm Person" or "Hold Person". I think the original intent was to limit true cloning rather than the production of simulacra to characters that were theoretically capable of level advancement -- and with Gaz 10 and all of the "Creature Crucible" supplements, that would be nearly any humanoid race. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 12:31:00 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sea of Dread In a message dated 98-05-01 15:02:46 EDT, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no writes: >Thanegioth Archipelago? >Champions of Mystara, boxed set gives you some additional info. Otherwise you will have to flesh out the rest yourself, unless someone in here can help you out. Tarzan might be a good source of inspiration though. I don't recall seeing much about that archipelago in that boxed set. A better resource would be the modules already cited -- especially X1, "Isle of Dread". *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 18:32:27 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] The Role of Knights Hi people. Someone pointed out to me that the Knights of medeival europe, never could have played such a role as they did, if European armies had consisted of diciplined professional armies, rather than farmers with spears. So I was wondering what effects this would have on a realistic approach on Thyatis. How is the land managed? Are there large farms (plantations) controlled by nobles and manned by slaves? (like the US south before the civil war?) Also. Should not Karameikos be more similar to Thyatis? Or the other way around? The fact that slavery is illegal in Karameikos will ofcourse change some things. Though I suspect that local farmers serve much of the same function. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #264 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 16:02:03 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #265 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Saturday, May 2 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 265 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Draconic Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Illithids (was Psionics in Mystara) Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] The Role of Knights Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Complete Handbood series (was Psionics in Mystara) Re: [MYSTARA] - Chronomancy [MYSTARA] - Glantrian knowledge of Clerics Re: [MYSTARA] - Illithids (was Psionics in Mystara) Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri's clerical knowledge Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian knowledge of Clerics Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri's clerical knowledge Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] The Role of Knights [MYSTARA] - The Sage of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 12:32:41 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) On Sat, 2 May 1998, Inconu wrote: >most of Davania and Skothar blank....which allows DMs to do projects on the missing pieces, and add whatever they want to the backround info on the planet. Skothar, Yes, But not Davania to an extent. the PA series did a job of covering a lot of that continent. I'd like to see a campaign in Zxyl :) Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 12:35:01 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals On Sat, 2 May 1998, Kaviyd wrote: >Rulers. A 5th circle Dracologist cannot defeat a Dragon Ruler in its Manifestation form -- but he could very well defeat its mortal identity, and it is my understanding that that is exactly what he would have to do to Your arguments are probably the most comprehensive i have seen. Thank you for clearing all this up for me :) Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 12:39:15 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) On Sat, 2 May 1998, Daly wrote: >speaking, a "Gandalf" for the world, though we have discussed making one... Why in the name of Rafiel would you want to make one? It would upset the balance of power between the mages of the world. And it would make Mystara somewhat "Forgettable" too :) Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 18:49:54 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Draconic Immortals On Sat, 2 May 1998, Kaviyd wrote: >In a message dated 98-05-01 12:23:48 EDT, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no writes: >>Anyway, The Glantri Gaz clearly states that the Craft of Drachology is a wwway to immortality. Though it seems unlikely that this should be possible, unless the Great One decided that it should be that way.. >Can you cite a specific reference to that effect? Assuming the (mortal identity) form of a dragon ruler and taking over his mortal identity's role is a far cry from becoming a true Immortal. I was writing from my memory. I'll have to check the Glantri Gaz. I'll give you a further comment on this tomorrow. Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 13:59:08 EDT From: Duncan TKD Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Illithids (was Psionics in Mystara) Wasn't there something written about Illithids being under the ruins of Krakatos? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 18:58:42 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] The Role of Knights >Someone pointed out to me that the Knights of medeival europe, never could have played such a role as they did, if European armies had consisted of diciplined professional armies, rather than farmers with spears. So I was wondering what effects this would have on a realistic approach on Thyatis. How is the land managed? Are there large farms (plantations) controlled by nobles and manned by slaves? I think chivalry IRL was on the decline big time by the 15th century, which is roughly the technological frame in which Mystara is set. I reckon most countries are probably like pre civil war England - you have your noble in his manor, and his fleet of serfs (or freemen, in enlightened countries) who Man the Farm. In the more advanced countries like Thyatis their may well be landlords and independents who run what would effectively be a plantation... I think Knights don't really come into it, except in a few nations (Heldannic Territories, Karameikos), where the Knights effectively form an elite army under control of the nobles (or the Church or the Crown). Even when democracy was in its infancy (Oliver Cromwell) the situation was pretty similar for the people on the ground - lower classes run the farms for the upper classes, who own the land. >Also. Should not Karameikos be more similar to Thyatis? Or the other way around? The fact that slavery is illegal in Karameikos will ofcourse change some things. Though I suspect that local farmers serve much of the same function. I reckon Karameikos is based on the serf system (except Karameikos is enlightened, so substitute "freeman" for "serf"...). So your Traladaran/Thyatian nobles own the land, and the lower classes farm it. Probably the main difference between serf and freeman is that the serf doesnt get paid... I think the "disciplined, professional armies" bit really separates Mystara from IRL. In the Middle Ages that didn't really exist... armies were raised on the spot, and composed of mercenaries. Admittedly some mercenaries were well trained and disciplined anyway (English archers were famous for their quality, but they were still mercs). On Mystara I think just about every nation has a permanent on staff army. This didnt happen IRL because the King didnt have enough money to pay for a standing army... or felt he would rather spend his cash on other things. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 19:12:13 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) >>I disagree. Mystara was created as the most magical world TSR has released. >>It may not have an Elminster.....but i'm sure there's much more quantity of >>high level mages, or magical items in Mystara compared to the Realms. >I agree with Inconu here (where does that name come from anyway?). There are many more mages of high level in Mystara. There is not, canonically speaking, a "Gandalf" for the world, though we have discussed making one... I've had this debate with the resident Realms fan down here. Alphatia and its Thousand Wizards or stuff like Netheril. Netheril is the Realms version of Nithia - and I think the Netheril has just a "slight" advantage there. Besides the Thousand Wizards are Gone. Mystara is designed to challenge from level 1 to level 36... there is a progression of power here. But I think the campaign world is pretty well insulated from the high level stuff until the PCs get there too - which doesnt seem to be the case in the Realms. In the Realms you are well aware of Khelben Arunsun in his tower - the Thousand Wizards dont have nearly as great an effect on the campaign world, other than as a political body. And I disagree strongly about the magic items. I think Thincol the 36th level fighter armed with his +2 two handed sword should be mentioned here, as should Morphail the 19th level (AD+D) necromancer with his six beads of force. I think aside from Alphatia magic items are very thin on the ground on Mystara - there may be a lot in the modules (arent there always?) but the Canon NPCs seem to have, in two words, Bugger All. As an aside... Mystara seems to be the one campaign that is getting weaker as time goes on. At one point that average power rating was on the upturn (I think the Shadow Elf gazetteer has more than its fair share of high levels and worthy magic items) but it seems to be receding somewhat. Alphatia is gone! (and taken the majority of its power to the Hollow World). Whereas I remember when Elminster was but a 16th level wizard, and when Krynn had one 18th level wizard on the entire planet... Caveat... I dont think you can slate a campaign world to its very core (enough people do like FR, after all - i mean, its still going and Mystara is Dust In the Wind) - but I think peoples opinions are valid. I have drawn my conclusions about FR after many years of exposure (I only started running Mystara again after a long break a couple of years ago). IMC - I dont like it, for reasons already described. However - the most important part of the last sentence was the I M C. Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 18:32:08 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Complete Handbood series (was Psionics in Mystara) - ----- >As for psionics -- there is no way to convert it to D&D, as D&D has no psionics rules of its own. If you want to use psionics in a D&D campaign, you pretty much have to import the AD&D rules for it in their entirety and make a few minor adjustments to account for differences in those game mechanics that do overlap -- namely combat statistics and level limits. I think the Complete Psionics rules are as alien to the AD+D system as the D+D. Although I run AD+D, I couldnt see any problems with just using the CPH as is, without any changes at all. A psionicist needs only D+D ability scores - there are no other standard AD+D rules cited in that book. Keep in mind 2nd edition AD+D had no psionics rules of its own either, until the CPH came out! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 18:47:42 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Chronomancy - --- >For those who might not know...Chronomancy is the art of using magic to manipulate time. Anyone use it? Yeah, ive got in IMC. Checking out the Chronomancer book, it seems to me that chronomancers can alter history only as much as the DM allows - in my case I am reknowned for me tightness on such matters - so the timestream is practically unalterable IMC. I say that the timestream resists any changes (so an assassination attempt on Alexander Glantri would automatically fail etc.). However, you can still run adventures if the DM decides that he wants something changed (ie it is the adventure...) Chronomancy is relegated mainly to recon, IMC. But that doesnt diminish its coolness (I like the concept of time travel, although many dont). However, it does seem to aggravate the other players - I had a PC chronomancer briefly, but in the end the player retired him because of aggro from everyone else. I think they could well be an NPC only class in practice. The problem occurs when the low level chronomancer wants to do some timetravel stuff, but cannot actually take the entire party with him... thus leaving the others to sit around the table, getting bored, while the chronomancer is dealt with. Or, alternatively, whenever the chrono does this he gets bored while everyone else is dealt with. So even though I try to use everything IMC to give players maximum freedom in their choice of PC, chronomancy has had a rocky history. Its not that chronomancers are too powerful, its just that chronomancy seems to disrupt game play too much. Wanna play some weird, esoteric wizard? Play a wild mage... Apparently in the Will and the Way (psionics add on aimed at Dark Sun, for those who dont know) there is a time travel ability. Having just downloaded tWatW off the Net i'll have a squint and give my opinion. Probably too gross, knowing Dark Sun... (now that is a campaign aimed at the powergamer). Rule no.1 of both players and DMs.... Don't Split the Party! Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 19:17:33 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian knowledge of Clerics Glantrians are the most well educated people in the KW. They have universities, which offer a wide variety of courses. Glantrian adventurers are going to know about clerics - they are a fact of the adventuring life. Probably a high proportion of Glantrian adventurers do not adventure in Glantri, but adventure elsewhere - with clerics in the party. Also, i imagine that there are many people from all over the KW who go the Glantri to study magic - and they will know about clerical magic. And above all, there is Know Thine Enemy. I cannot see why Glantrians should not know as much about clerics as anyone else. Clerics are banned - probably clerics have been trying to sneak into Glantri and wreak a bit of havoc on these godless wizards for some time now - yknow, spreading the word, smiting the infidel, that sort of thing. I imagine the Glantrian Constabulary probably knows a great deal about clerics, as it is their job to deal with them. Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 19:19:07 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Illithids (was Psionics in Mystara) - --- >Wasn't there something written about Illithids being under the ruins of Krakatos? There is? Thats going to please my poor PCs greatly, as they are currently in Krakatos! (not). ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 14:30:18 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) At 12:39 PM 5/2/98 -0400, you wrote: >On Sat, 2 May 1998, Daly wrote: >>speaking, a "Gandalf" for the world, though we have discussed making one... >Why in the name of Rafiel would you want to make one? It would upset the balance of power between the mages of the world. >And it would make Mystara somewhat "Forgettable" too :) Having a powerful representative for Mystara is a neat idea. Having this rep specific to Mystara is an even better idea. It has been suggested that Terari can fit the role. Etienne is another good choice. But we could break with the "mage mentor" paradigm entirely and go with a cleric of some sort... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 14:50:25 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri's clerical knowledge Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 16:02:03 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #265 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com In a message dated 98-05-02 11:32:33 EDT, jdaly@friend.ly.net writes: >This is my point: Yes, the princes would certainly know about clerics, but iin their Machiavellian politicking they would choose not to divulge what they know. That would certainly be true if the matter were not something that is easily observed -- but most low level clerical magic and practices would be common knowledge to anyone with adventuring experience. The lower the level that a Cleric must be to do something, the more likely it is that Glantrians will be familiar with it. Even some rarer or higher level spells would be noteworthy enough that they would hear rumors about them -- after all, how many adventurers have been brought back from the dead by Clerics? It would not take much to discover that Clerics potentially have that ability. The same would go for any spells that could decimate armies, if such spells are ever cast. But as for how and why clerical abilities work, most Glantrians would neither know nor care -- there is no real potential for a "Destroy Faith" spell that a Glantrian wizard might cast on a hostile Cleric to deprive him of his spells. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 14:50:20 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara In a message dated 98-05-02 11:22:32 EDT, jdaly@friend.ly.net writes: >The Immortals are generally more subtle tthan that. Most of the time they are -- but occasionally they do go nuts. Think of the overkill in eliminating memories of Nithia, or the more recent events of WotI. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 14:53:39 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) At 07:12 PM 5/2/98 +0100, you wrote: >And I disagree strongly about the magic items. I think Thincol the 36th level fighter armed with his +2 two handed sword should be mentioned here, as should Morphail the 19th level (AD+D) necromancer with his six beads of force. I think aside from Alphatia magic items are very thin on the ground on Mystara - there may be a lot in the modules (arent there always?) but the Canon NPCs seem to have, in two words, Bugger All. But it says quite clearly that Thincol can get ahold of just about any magic item in existence. By the way...Morphail has beads of force?? What are they??? >As an aside... >Mystara seems to be the one campaign that is getting weaker as time goes on. At one point that average power rating was on the upturn (I think the Shadow Elf gazetteer has more than its fair share of high levels and worthy magic items) but it seems to be receding somewhat. Alphatia is gone! (and taken the majority of its power to the Hollow World). Whereas I remember when Elminster was but a 16th level wizard, and when Krynn had one 18th level wizard on the entire planet... Only if you use WotI. In discussion with various people about reissuing Mystara (including Bruce Heard) we have discussed the idea of reissue at year 1000AC, with perhaps supplementary info regarding WotI. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 14:56:11 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian knowledge of Clerics At 07:17 PM 5/2/98 +0100, you wrote: >I cannot see why Glantrians should not know as much about clerics as anyone else. Clerics are banned Precisely the point. How many countries do you know, that ban a substance or a group, and then educate the country about that substance or group legitimately? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 14:59:30 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri's clerical knowledge At 02:50 PM 5/2/98 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 98-05-02 11:32:33 EDT, jdaly@friend.ly.net writes: >>This is my point: Yes, the princes would certainly know about clerics, but iiin their Machiavellian politicking they would choose not to divulge what they know. >That would certainly be true if the matter were not something that is easily observed -- Not easily observed at all in Glantri. but most low level clerical magic and practices would bbe common knowledge to anyone with adventuring experience. Depends on where they adventure. Truly, international adventurers should be fairly rare (demographically speaking). And those who do, are not going to feel an obligation to return with the knowledge. The >lower the level that a Cleric must be to do something, the more likely it is that Glantrians will be familiar with it. Even some rarer or higher level spells would be noteworthy enough that they would hear rumors about them -- after all, how many adventurers have been brought back from the dead by Clerics? Exactly the point. Think of how such rumors would be expanded and used by the government. Of course Morphail understands clerical magic, but is he going to explain it to young Glantrians? Does he want Glantrians to understand clerics and welcome them? I think not... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 14:09:50 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) SteelAngel wrote: >On Sat, 2 May 1998, Daly wrote: >>speaking, a "Gandalf" for the world, though we have discussed making one... >Why in the name of Rafiel would you want to make one? It would upset the balance of power between the mages of the world. I have already made one that I use. I don't know how you see Elminster but I see him as a source of information about the land both present and past. The Old Sage is very fitting to him and that's exactly how I want Mystara's sage to be. TSR attempted to have Joshuan and his annual fill this role but failed. Maybe it was just the annual that failed and Joshuan could still rise to this need. They might not have the in-depth knowledge as Elminster but they do know enough to answer many general questions. And are terribly busy so as to not be participating in the adventures they dabble in itself or to even save the PCs' skin should they get in over their heads. When you speak of the different settings, only those that have characters that represent that world seem to have survived. Not because the character is powerful (though they usually are) but they give the newcomer to it an idea of that world. The Realms has Elminster, an ancient, highly skilled mage who has witnessed much in his world. Dragonlance continues with the Companions (though they are mostly dead now and one could say the dragons of the new age will take this role). Planescape's Lady of Pain is an enigma much like the planes. Ravenloft is home to Strahd, a evil creature with a tragic curse. Greyhawk's return begins with its Circle of Eight in the spotlight. And Mystara has ??? These characters are much like the blurb on the back of a book. They give an brief idea of that world and its forces to anyone just discovering them. It is through their eyes that we are greeted by a world, that we first are shown some of the wonders it holds before we find the area that captures our attention. No one can use an entire world at first. We need the 'help' of such characters to find the beginnings of the road. Those who have been involve with Mystara might not see that need but we need new blood more in order to see it continue. >And it would make Mystara somewhat "Forgettable" too :) Actually, I think Mystara could be known as the unknown world since so many don't connect the old box sets to it or having just arrived to *D&D and have no idea of such a place. ;> The Realms might not appeal to everyone but it has been successful enough to keep a company going. Had TSR concentrated their efforts to it without experimenting with things like CDs, they may have never suffered the trouble that resulted in the WotC buyout. It and the Dragonlance novels seemed to have been their most profitable lines. Thankfully they were profitable enough to allow them to try settings of Ravenloft, Birthright, Dark Sun, Planescape and Spelljammer. Though not nearly the money makers, I've had a good time with them. I hope that their success continues that Mystara will once again become a 'known' world. Excuse this rather long opinion piece. As I'm fond of saying in TSR Live chat, it's my opinion only but the one most important to me ;> - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 14:22:33 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] The Role of Knights Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: >Someone pointed out to me that the Knights of medeival europe, never could have played such a role as they did, if European armies had consisted of diciplined professional armies, rather than farmers with spears. So I was wondering what effects this would have on a realistic approach on Thyatis. How is the land managed? Are there large farms (plantations) controlled by nobles and manned by slaves? (like the US south before the civil war?) I don't think the South's slavery would be the example to follow. I do think that Thyatis' slave use would factor in though and that they would be present on the estates of nobles. The indentured servant seems more like Thyatis' model of slavery. The serfs of medieval times seem much like that. Only a few points of slavery really seem present. >Also. Should not Karameikos be more similar to Thyatis? Or the other way around? The fact that slavery is illegal in Karameikos will ofcourse change some things. Though I suspect that local farmers serve much of the same function. I consider many of the farmers in Karameikos to be serfs though their freedom isn't as restrictive. Maybe when Stefan first took the rulership it was but he has since then allied his people to him as they forge a new nation where all are Karameikans. If all are Karameikans then the idea that some are subject to others wouldn't sit well with some. In Thyatis, the serfs (slave would probably be more descriptive) are tied to the land much as in medieval ages. In Karameikos, the protection of the lord is the more important aspect. A lord in Karameikos that allows his subjects to come to harm risks losing his estate as the people rise against him or leave. Thyatis is the opposite of this in my mind. They cling to an outdated system as their nation sinks in degradation. They will soon have to find how to make being a Thyatian something to be proud in that isn't hollow or risk having their nation fracture and weakened further. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 14:26:33 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Sage of Mystara If you read my earlier post then you know I think it beneficial to have a sage or spokesman for Mystara. In order to have one that meets the requirements, what are some of the things about Mystara that sits it apart from other worlds? Without the benefit of the D&D rules and as if it was a world described in a novel, what do you think makes it special? Please send this to me personally and I will post the results later. I'd just like to get an idea of where most are coming from in this. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 15:29:44 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) On Sat, 2 May 1998, Daly wrote: >It has been suggested that Terari can fit the role. Etienne is another good choice. Terari would be good to fit in as a powerful mentor, He is one of the last Alphatians on the surface worth mentioning. BUT he's no Elminster. IMHO there are a lot of mages in the Glantrian School of Magic that could be just as good, if not better. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 15:38:04 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara On Sat, 2 May 1998, Kaviyd wrote: >Think of the overkill in eliminating memories of Nithia, or the more That wasn't overkill, if you know the reasons why. Thanatos has a penchant for corrupting on the wide scale (The Burrowers for example) And he corrupted the most powerful empire of the time, and had the capability to do a LOT more damage. The rest of the immortals were worried because they were losing major followers. So they punished Thanatos by wiping all his work away. On another Note, Gorm, Madarua, and Usimagras, the 3 Cycindean Immortals, how the heck to they still survive? Cycindea consists soley of a Pyramid, and an underground city inhabited by a dying race of insane masked hummans. Do they even try to get followers anywhere else? (Except for the few travellers who brave the pyramid to get to the 3 temples? Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 15:01:52 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) SteelAngel wrote: >Terari would be good to fit in as a powerful mentor, He is one of the last Alphatians on the surface worth mentioning. BUT he's no Elminster. IMHO there are a lot of mages in the Glantrian School of Magic that could be just as good, if not better. I think Terari makes the best choice. The Glantrian School of Magic mages can't measure up in the areas needed. Terari represents much of what Mystara is. He has risen to power and then reinvented himself. Think of the Immortals and I think you'll see what I mean. He has spent time in travel and so knows more than the number of bathrooms in the Glantri School. He has reached the height of power and is now passing that knowledge on to others. The mentor term would work great here. He is a bridge through time itself. His experience with pre-WotI and post-WotI show that he is adaptable. While Glantri may look all knowing, that small country pales in the image of Alphatia (A land out of myth itself and now returned to myth). He has seen much and lost much. His interests are much broader than some reactor in the ground. I don't know your views on Elminster so I have no idea if this makes him more like El or less in your eyes. Frankly, Claransa makes a better choice than some Glantri wizard. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #265 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Sunday, May 3 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 266 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian knowledge of Clerics Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) [MYSTARA] - Elminster meets Haldemar? Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Elminster meets Haldemar? Re: [MYSTARA] - Elminster meets Haldemar? Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Best Modules!!! Re: [MYSTARA] - Best Modules!!! Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's plan to reprint the best modules Re: [MYSTARA] - Take a Chill Pill Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's plan to reprint the best modules [MYSTARA] - Re: Best Modules!!! Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Complete Handbood series (was Psionics in Mystara) Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 16:15:35 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) On Sat, 2 May 1998, Galwylin wrote: >I don't know your views on Elminster so I have no idea if this makes him more like El or less in your eyes. Frankly, Claransa makes a better choice than some Glantri wizard. Well, I was thinking book-smart, not really experience-smart. Terari is the voice of experience. But Claransa.. darn.. forgot about her. She'd be pretty darn good too. If for nothing else than the Hollow World Info :) Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 21:38:20 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian knowledge of Clerics >>I cannot see why Glantrians should not know as much about clerics as anyone else. Clerics are banned >Precisely the point. How many countries do you know, that ban a substance or a group, and then educate the country about that substance or group legitimately? England about drugs? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 21:38:52 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) Come to think of it, how about the USA and communism? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 21:42:12 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) >At 07:12 PM 5/2/98 +0100, you wrote: >>And I disagree strongly about the magic items. I think Thincol the 36th >>level fighter armed with his +2 two handed sword should be mentioned here, as should Morphail the 19th level (AD+D) necromancer with his six beads of force. I think aside from Alphatia magic items are very thin on the ground >>on Mystara - there may be a lot in the modules (arent there always?) but the >>Canon NPCs seem to have, in two words, Bugger All. >But it says quite clearly that Thincol can get ahold of just about any magic item in existence. If this is the case, why is he listed as having a +2 sword? He might as well have a +5 - its no skin off his nose, after all... >By the way...Morphail has beads of force?? What are they??? well - only in G:KoM... They're an AD+D item - you throw them like hand grenades, and they create a sphere of force (as Wall of Force) 20' across. Creatures in the area of effect take 5d4 damage, an must save vs spell or be trapped in the bubble of force. Creatures who pass are thrown out of the area of effect. Instant walls of force, basically... >>As an aside... >>Mystara seems to be the one campaign that is getting weaker as time goes >>on. At one point that average power rating was on the upturn (I think the Shadow Elf gazetteer has more than its fair share of high levels and worthy >>magic items) but it seems to be receding somewhat. Alphatia is gone! (and >>taken the majority of its power to the Hollow World). Whereas I remember when Elminster was but a 16th level wizard, and when Krynn had one 18th level wizard on the entire planet... >Only if you use WotI. In discussion with various people about reissuing Mystara (including Bruce Heard) we have discussed the idea of reissue at year 1000AC, with perhaps supplementary info regarding WotI. I dont care whether Alphatia is there or not (actually I do - I would rather that it is). Just bring Mystara back! Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 21:45:07 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Elminster meets Haldemar? >Having a powerful representative for Mystara is a neat idea. Having this rep specific to Mystara is an even better idea. How about Haldemar and his Princess Ark? He is probably the most well known wiz in Mystara for those who have yet to find out about Mystara. All my friends knew about him and the Princess Ark before I started running. They didnt know what planet he was from, but they knew of him... Who knows - perhaps the Princess Ark could stop in at Evermeet with all the other spelljamming ships or something... >But we could break with the "mage mentor" paradigm entirely and go with a cleric of some sort... :) Sorry - just think of him as a ship captain, not a mage... Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 17:14:40 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) At 03:29 PM 5/2/98 -0400, you wrote: >On Sat, 2 May 1998, Daly wrote: >>It has been suggested that Terari can fit the role. Etienne is another good choice. >Terari would be good to fit in as a powerful mentor, He is one of the last Alphatians on the surface worth mentioning. BUT he's no Elminster. IMHO there are a lot of mages in the Glantrian School of Magic that could be just as good, if not better. Well, I am not certain what you mean. Of course he is not Elminster. However, he does serve the same purpose as guide, at least in all things Alphatian... I often see Mystara as a world in which there are many sage/mentors competing for the ultimate prize of being THE sage/mentor for the world. But the competition is not yet over... Another character who fits the role is Haldemar. In brute magic strength he is likely not Elminster's equal (and certainly not Gandalf's!). But he serves excellently as a sage or guide. His swashbuckling nature provides an excellent difference as well... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 17:17:03 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) At 03:01 PM 5/2/98 -0500, you wrote: >SteelAngel wrote: >>Terari would be good to fit in as a powerful mentor, He is one of the last Alphatians on the surface worth mentioning. BUT he's no Elminster. IMHO there are a lot of mages in the Glantrian School of Magic that could be just as good, if not better. >I think Terari makes the best choice. The Glantrian School of Magic mages can't measure up in the areas needed. Terari represents much of what Mystara is. He has risen to power and then reinvented himself. Has it occurred to you that we can even increase his age to make him fit the role even better? He is the 4th Tylion...or is he? What if he "retired" and reinvented himself each time... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 17:18:06 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) At 04:15 PM 5/2/98 -0400, you wrote: >On Sat, 2 May 1998, Galwylin wrote: >>I don't know your views on Elminster so I have no idea if this makes him more like El or less in your eyes. Frankly, Claransa makes a better choice than some Glantri wizard. >Well, I was thinking book-smart, not really experience-smart. Terari is the voice of experience. But Claransa.. darn.. forgot about her. She'd be pretty darn good too. If for nothing else than the Hollow World Info :) Of course you have many pc Claransas out there, you know. Anyone still running CM1 (where she first appeared as a PLAYER character) may have her ruling a dominion... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 17:21:00 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elminster meets Haldemar? At 09:45 PM 5/2/98 +0100, you wrote: >>Having a powerful representative for Mystara is a neat idea. Having this rep specific to Mystara is an even better idea. >How about Haldemar and his Princess Ark? He is probably the most well known wiz in Mystara for those who have yet to find out about Mystara. All my friends knew about him and the Princess Ark before I started running. They didnt know what planet he was from, but they knew of him... I agree. He is an awesome representative! >Who knows - perhaps the Princess Ark could stop in at Evermeet with all the other spelljamming ships or something... Well, first it would have to be outfitted as a spelljammer... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 16:22:25 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elminster meets Haldemar? Robert Fry wrote: >How about Haldemar and his Princess Ark? He is probably the most well known wiz in Mystara for those who have yet to find out about Mystara. All my friends knew about him and the Princess Ark before I started running. They didnt know what planet he was from, but they knew of him... WWho knows - perhaps the Princess Ark could stop in at Evermeet with all the other spelljamming ships or something... On the TSR message boards, we've talked with Bruce about this possibility especially if new areas are opened in a relaunch of the Mystara line. We've even tried to get some Princess Ark articles and a novel out of him but, like many of us, his time is restrictive too. Would love to see something with Haldemar and crew though. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 17:36:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara Duncan TKD pontificated: >Please don't send a letter more than once. The list do funny stuff sometime and sends out multiple copies of letter on its own. I think I hold the record of having one of my letter posted 4 times by the server. - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 17:37:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Best Modules!!! GDQ is also on there, splited into the G series and the DQ series. LandoTW pontificated: >There is a slot for ToEE on the ballot...in the T1-T4 spot... - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | UVa, Material Science Dept. |"Earth is too small and fragile a basket IPM Lab | for Mankind to keep all his eggs in." (804) 984-3789 | -- Robert Anson Heinlein *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 17:44:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Best Modules!!! =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= pontificated: >>Has everyone voted on the 4 best modules yet? I have reattached Geoff Gander's excellent summary below. However, I have an alternate choice for the final module. Instead of B4, what about the Master of the Desert Nomad series. All three modules in one huge reprinting! It would continue the B10, X1, X11 theory of providing an overview of Mystara. Including the Great Waste and the lands of the hideous Master provides a huge amount of geographical info as well as an awesome enemy. If everyone agrees on B4, though, I will go along just to add weight. >Im surprised noone mentioned the Hollow World Triolgy. Though the ending is a bit corny, they are increadibly well done. I think they are even better than b10. Hollow World Trilogy is not on the ballot. I'm not sure why. Is it newer than other oD&D modules? All of the modules listed on the ballot came out before '89. My first thought is that HW modules are depended on the game setting, and are not generic enough, but the immortal level modules are listed, so that couldn't be the reason. As for my votes, I think B10, and X11 would get my votes now, and the Desert Nomad series might get the third vote. I don't like B4 and X1 that much, and probably wouldn't vote for them. And as I mentioned earlier, X1 is still fairly availible on the used market. - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 17:52:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's plan to reprint the best modules Dave Keyser pontificated: >I learned on the rec.games.frp.dnd newsgroup that TSR plans to release these modules with some special covers and new art, and Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 01:56:52 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #266 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com >the only changes will be, "editing, and updating these modules for second edition." >Can't...resist...the...urge...to...criticize...TSR... >I sincerely hope this is wrong, but I suspect it is true. Which means that even if D&D modules make the top four, they will not be printed as before, they will be "updated". This is not really a surprise. I doubt they want to print any thing that can't be used by new players who only started playing since 2nd edition. However, I don't think the editing and updating will be anything as drastic as from Gaz1 to K:KoA. It would probably just to make sure all the monster stats, spell list, treasures, etc. are consistance with the 2nd edition rules. Otherwise, it would probably be too much work for them :). >Now if TSR does plan to update D&D modules to 2nd edition AD&D, I would rather have them reprint those which are easier to convert, to reduce the chance of screwups. Which is why I suggested that we limited the voting to B and X series. >Most of the X modules can also be converted easily. X10 would be a problem, as all of the military unit statistics are in War Machine and Battlesystem terms. Neither is supported by TSR anymore. If that got reprinted, my guess is there will be a few pages of rule appendix of War Machine rule for 2nd edition AD&D in the back. It should be that difficult to modify it. And since that going to be a super module (at least, maybe even a box set), they should have some room to work with. >The IM modules simply don't work in AD&D2. I have no idea why are those modules on the ballot. I doubt they are going to be reprinted even if they get a bunch of votes. - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: 02 May 1998 20:14:41 +0000 From: Alistair Young Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Take a Chill Pill On Wed, 29 Apr 1998 17:11:41 EDT, in message <34f845ad.3547978f@aol.com>, JamugaKhan (== JamugaKhan) praised Shub-Internet thus: >IMO some list members see the Ethengar as a primitive and not very civilized people. This is not true and I'm fighting for this opinion. Of course they are! But then, so is everyone who isn't Alphatian... Alistair - -- Computational Thaumaturge -- Sysimperator, dominus retis deusque machinarum. e-mail: avatar-sig@arkane.demon.co.uk WWW: http://www.arkane.demon.co.uk/ "Moebius strip for sale. See other side." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 19:01:33 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) Daly wrote: >Of course you have many pc Claransas out there, you know. Anyone still running CM1 (where she first appeared as a PLAYER character) may have her ruling a dominion... This brings out an important point, I think. Now that Claransa has 'officially' visited the Hollow World and wrote a book, that makes the use of her from CM1 by players a moot point (unless you just substitute her). The adventure, Mark of Amber, is another that leaves you with three choices and if Mystara returns, the path the adventure took will be decided by TSR. Doesn't that make these problem areas that people were saying Mystara is more player oriented? I mean, sure you can do all that but TSR is going to choose which really happened and it might not be what people had in their campaign. They could always just never use the characters or situations from these adventures but do you really think Entienne won't show up in a future TSR product? Just thought I'd point that out since someone had mention Mark of Amber as showing that Mystara is run by players more than other settings. Mark of Amber's three paths is one reason I haven't ran it yet because I'm not sure if I want Entrienne returned to immortality or made a human mage. I guess that proves, if anything, that Mystara is runned by the DM and not the players ;> - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 19:03:43 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) Daly wrote: >Has it occurred to you that we can even increase his age to make him fit the role even better? Actually, it has. I'm trying to see what all I can dig up on him to see if it's something to consider for a story I'm working on. >He is the 4th Tylion...or is he? What if he "retired" and reinvented himself each time... That's the thing about mages, you never know if they're telling you the whole truth or not ;> - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 19:07:31 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's plan to reprint the best modules Shin Chyang Yu wrote: >This is not really a surprise. I doubt they want to print any thing that can't be used by new players who only started playing since 2nd edition. However, I don't think the editing and updating will be anything as drastic as from Gaz1 to K:KoA. It would probably just to make sure all the monster stats, spell list, treasures, etc. are consistance with the 2nd edition rules. Otherwise, it would probably be too much work for them :). They could do what they did when they updated the Dragonlance modules (DL1-DL14) for 2nd edition as Dragonlance Classics Vol. 1-3, which was to basically slap a 2nd edition logo on em ;> - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: 02 May 1998 19:17:46 -0500 From: Alan Shutko Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Best Modules!!! >>>>>"S" == Shin Chyang Yu writes: S> Hollow World Trilogy is not on the ballot. I'm not sure why. Is S> it newer than other oD&D modules? Yes. Nightwail is copyright 1990. The others listed are all pretty old, and have had time to become classics. I don't think the HW adventures have had time yet. Although, I will agree that they are excellent, and I recommend people pick them up. They're readily available from various online stores. - -- Alan Shutko - By consent of the corrupted Of all forms of caution, caution in love is the most fatal. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 22:56:34 EDT From: BoBo II Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) In a message dated 5/2/98 10:09:43 AM, you wrote: < Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara In a message dated 98-05-02 15:52:59 EDT, you write: << On another Note, Gorm, Madarua, and Usimagras, the 3 Cycindean Immortals, how the heck to they still survive? Cycindea consists soley of a Pyramid, and an underground city inhabited by a dying race of insane masked hummans. Do they even try to get followers anywhere else? (Except for the few travellers who brave the pyramid to get to the 3 temples? >> I think Madarua is mentioned as having a small following in Thyatis. Usimagaras could easily be a patron of the Hin Masters in the 5 Shires. There are several cultures who Gorm (under one name or another) could be a patron. Also consider that their followers need not be on the prime plane, they could have millions of followers out on another plane of existence somewhere. - -Mage *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 00:05:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) Robert Fry pontificated: >>But it says quite clearly that Thincol can get ahold of just about any magic item in existence. >If this is the case, why is he listed as having a +2 sword? He might as well have a +5 - its no skin off his nose, after all... There might be other reason for picking a sword other than how much magic bonus it gives. The +2 sword could be something like the Sword of Thyatian Empire. The sword that the first Thyatian Emperor used, and has passed down from one emperor to the next ever since. Especially consider that Thincol is unlikly to fight hand-to-hand with anyone anymore, there are really no reason for him to carry a weapon that just increase his fighting ability, or any weapon at all. So any weapon he carries would be there for some other reason. Another possibility. That sword can be shrank down to miniture size or hide away in extra-dimentional space, so Thincol can carry it without anyone knows he is carring it. It would be sort of silly for Thincol to carry a 2-handed sword openly where ever he goes, wouldn't it? (Funny image of Clinton with a M-16 on his back while making State of Union Address suddenly pops into my head :). I had a character kept a sword +1 throughout his adventure career, because it was a family heirloom. Had to modify the rule a bit so he can hit creature that can only be hit with highly magical weapons. - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 00:11:59 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara On Sat, 2 May 1998, Magesmiley wrote: >Usimagaras could easily be a patron of the Hin Masters in the 5 Shires. There are several cultures who Gorm (under one name or another) could be a patron. Also consider that their followers need not be on the prime plane, they could have millions of followers out on another plane of existence somewhere. True enough. But in WotI It does say that they do dote on Cyncindea. I wonder why they haven't decided to put it in the hollow world. I mean, noone on the surface would miss it :) Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 00:37:03 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Complete Handbood series (was Psionics in Mystara) In a message dated 98-05-02 14:35:19 EDT, rmunch@easynet.co.uk writes: >A psionicist needs only D+D >ability scores - there are no other standard AD+D rules cited in that book. Only by implication. The saving throw, THAC0, and PSP tables are based on AD&D standards and so should probably be adjusted somewhat for use with D&D, where the maximum level is 36 (not 20 or 30), characters of maximum level (36) have saving throws of 2 across the board, and bonuses for high ability scores begin at 13 rather than 15. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 00:36:57 EDT From: Magesmiley Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara In a message dated 98-05-03 00:25:11 EDT, you write: << True enough. But in WotI It does say that they do dote on Cyncindea. I wonder why they haven't decided to put it in the hollow world. I mean, noone on the surface would miss it :) >> Maybe it is heading there soon. Could be an idea for an interesting experience for a party to be in Cyndicea when it gets moved... - -Mage *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 01:03:09 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara On Sun, 3 May 1998, Magesmiley wrote: >Maybe it is heading there soon. Could be an idea for an interesting experience for a party to be in Cyndicea when it gets moved... Ooo. That's a damn cool plot twist to get a party into the hollow world. I wonder if the spell of preservation would affect them too. They don't actually belong in Cycindea.. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 01:56:19 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) In a message dated 98-05-02 11:28:47 EDT, Jeff writes: << Now now, Julianna is not a harlot. She is flirtatious, but...did you notice she is the only Volospin who has a lawful alignment? I have played upon this fact in my own campaign...someday I should toss ya'll the full description of the Yellowskull campaign... >> That is true in the "is" sense. After Wrath, Julianna had a massive change of heart as well as attitude. I guess having a principality tossed on her lap would do that. So more correctly, Julianna was a floosey/harlot. I like Julianna and see her as a potential power in Glantri along the same lines as Malachie. Sorry man for now I have to go with G:KoM until my copy of the Glantri GAZ arrives (i found one). Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #266 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 11:04:12 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #267 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Sunday, May 3 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 267 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian knowledge of Clerics Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri's clerical knowledge Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's plan to reprint the best modules Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri's clerical knowledge Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File Re: [MYSTARA] - Marching Armies Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File Re: [MYSTARA] - Chronomancy Re: [MYSTARA] - Chronomancy Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian knowledge of Clerics ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 02:41:01 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) In a message dated 98-05-02 14:34:51 EDT, Robert Fry writes: << And I disagree strongly about the magic items. I think Thincol the 36th level fighter armed with his +2 two handed sword should be mentioned here, as should Morphail the 19th level (AD+D) necromancer with his six beads of force. I think aside from Alphatia magic items are very thin on the ground on Mystara - there may be a lot in the modules (arent there always?) but the Canon NPCs seem to have, in two words, Bugger All.>> Well I have wonder why Thincol, Emperor of Mighty Thyatis, settles for a "measily" sword +2. I rationalized that the swords holds some sentimental value, perhaps being the one he favored when he was a gladiator or used in rallying the Thyatians prior to assumming the throne. In either case, this could be a very significant symbol to the Thyatians. His using the same weapon he rose to fame with. But given that he is Emperor and has a bevy of guards to protect his person, I see little reason why he should need a more powerful weapon, especially if it means losing that symbolism. Besides, with a +2 the weapon is capable of striking even the durndest opponent. And even Alphatia's General Torenal only carries a normal sword +3. And this is Alphatia where the time and cost to enchant a sword +5 is nothing as compared to some of the frivilous things they create. The bright side is that Torenal is a Grand Master of the normal sword. As with Thincol, I see the underacheiver enchantments on their personal weapons as being symbolic. In Torenal's case the +3 is slap dab in the middle, just powerful enough to be affective against any conjured beasties. But not maxed out presenting itself as a truly powerful weapon capable of making the bearer anything more than the commander of the Imperial Guard. <> Once again symbolism. WotI had Mystara placed in a circle of change. These circles are fairly well represented throughout the Mystaran history. The problem is that the setting was canned shortly after Wrath with few subsequent products issued to remedy problems initiated through WotI. Then there is the bombshell of the Radiance which is slowly sucking away at Mystaran magic. These and other factors offer an impression of decay. Whereas other changes were alleived by the rise of another people or whatever, the setting stopped before that transfer was complete. Hence Mystara has little in regards to closure on the WotI and little demonstrated to fix the items broken during WotI. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 02:55:08 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian knowledge of Clerics In a message dated 98-05-02 15:11:02 EDT, jdaly@friend.ly.net writes: >Precisely the point. How many countries do you know, that ban a substance oor a group, and then educate the country about that substance or group legitimately? The education about clerics has a strong bias against them, I am sure. It would be directed mostly at finding and exploiting their weaknesses in combat against them rather than benefiting from their services. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 02:55:13 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri's clerical knowledge In a message dated 98-05-02 15:14:37 EDT, jdaly@friend.ly.net writes: >Of course Morphail understands clerical magic, but is he ggoing to explain it to young Glantrians? Does he want Glantrians to understand clerics and welcome them? I think not... He wants Glantrians to understand clerics well enough to fear and hate them -- so he would certainly play up any stories of evil Clerics animating the dead, for example. He might also give wide publicity to any stories of Clerics casting Quest spells on adventurers and requiring them to do various grotesque things. In general, he would feed them the nastiest sort of propaganda about Clerics and try to fool them into thinking they know the full truth. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 02:55:47 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's plan to reprint the best modules In a message dated 98-05-02 20:20:50 EDT, galwylin@airnet.net writes: >They could do what they did when they updated the Dragonlance modules ((DL1-DL14) for 2nd edition as Dragonlance Classics Vol. 1-3, which was to basically slap a 2nd edition logo on em ;> One advantage that TSR had when they created the Dragonlance world is that they did it during the transition from 1st to 2nd edition, so they were able to anticipate much of what they would end up doing in 2nd edition. I remember noticing at the time how much higher the level limits were above 1st edition standards -- for those of you who started with 2nd edition rules, the Dragonlance level limits would not seem so excessive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 22:19:25 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) >Having a powerful representative for Mystara is a neat idea. Having this rep specific to Mystara is an even better idea. >It has been suggested that Terari can fit the role. Etienne is another good choice. Allright, you all know that I love Glantri, so I'm going to present a couple of reasons why Etienne is a good choice for such a person (feel free to hit the delete button :) Etienne may seem like it, but he is not your typical almighty kindly old fart like Gandalf or Elminster (allright, he is almighty). Yes, presumably he has now (1012 AC and beyond) become more humane and learned some responsibility. However, he still considers clerics weak fools, he is as devious and crafty as any Glantrian prince (probably more), and he has a wonderful sense of humor. These things make him a very interesting character and differentiate him from the typical old archmage cliche. Oh yeah, and he has a nice accent, too :) >But we could break with the "mage mentor" paradigm entirely and go with a cleric of some sort... A cleric, eh? Who would fit? Chandra ul Nervi, perhaps (here would be an opportunity to develop him further)? I'm kinda interested in Chandra - esp. since my campaign is moving towards the direction of Sind very soon. Otherwise I'm having trouble finding clerics in Mystara who could be interesting enough to represent the whole world. ************ Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 05:56:30 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri's clerical knowledge In a message dated 98-05-02 09:42:37 EDT, you write: << << However, the question is how much do each of these cleric knowing Glantrians know about clerics. Are the held knowledge pretty darn good, or just a smattering. IMO experiences with clerical magics vary from person to person. And with all smatterings of knowledge, there is some leeway for misconceptions. Alex >> You should realize that people like Jaggar and Etienne and most of the other princes.... would know quite a good deal about clerics. You can't just look at them in black and white and think....well, since no clerics are in Glantri, many have limited knowledge on them. Jaggar's level is in the twenties and Ettienne in the 30s... These are some of the most experienced individuals on the planet. They've probably dealt with many unique creatures...many different cultures...and a huge amount of clerics in their time. They've all had to of started at level one somewhere along the lines...and regardless of the clerical ban in Glantri, this doesn't stop the princes from leaving Glantri or any of the citizens for that matter. I'm sure most have experienced other countries and have seen many different examples of religion in thier time. Brannart for example, is a brillant man.....er ... lich. I'm sure he's known about clerics before his encounters with Sir Bruce. He knows they can hold power over him, so I'd imagine he probably knows more about certain clerics and religions than he'd ever need to know. Wouldn't that make sense? -Inconu >> My point exactly. But the question still remains as to the level of understanding each individual Prince/ess has pertaining to clerics. And understanding their practices and tactics is different than having observed them frequently. IMO such knowledge would be based directly on observations. Researching clerical magics and theorums could be veiwed as quite treasonous. Plus, a thorough researching would also entail a learning of the cleric's Immortal and that immortal's following. And as familiarity dispels fear, you might see some Glantrian cleric haters softening up on their staunch atttude towards clerics. Which brings up another aspect. Let us say a Glantrian noble goes off adventuring. His persona is imbued with the Glantrain attitude towards clerics. How is this attitude going to affect the party if the needed cleric is present? I see it as a predicament much like an avenger and paladin being together. Or a Flaem and Alphatian being together. Or a Shadow Elf and Alfheimer being together in the same adventuring party. At best the relationship will be uneasy. At worst it will be hostile. Either way the opportunities for a proper observance of the cleric and his spells will will strained. The exception being a Glantrian less hostile to clerics and not beguiled by their presence. And that Glantrian may not see the need in such observations and studies since he is more practical towards clerics. Just a thought or two.... Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 06:20:04 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File I am surprised at the lack of "talk" on the Rakasta article in Dragon. Myself, I found it a welcome addition. So much so that I was inspired to add a Rakasta clan to one of my Davania projects. Nice job Bruce. I have yet to check the game mechanics but I see few problems with the Rakasta layout. I do have one problem with an aspect of the article. That problem is based more on personal opinion and my own mental image of the rakasta. I await a few more days before commenting furhter. Perhaps by then that problem will not seem such a big deal. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 11:34:31 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) >This brings out an important point, I think. Now that Claransa has 'officially' visited the Hollow World and wrote a book, that makes the use of her from CM1 by players a moot point (unless you just substitute her). The adventure, Mark of Amber, is another that leaves you with three choices and if Mystara returns, the path the adventure took will be decided by TSR. Doesn't that make these problem areas that people were saying Mystara is more player oriented? I mean, sure you can do all that but TSR is going to choose which really happened and it might not be what people had in their campaign. They could always just never use the characters or situations from these adventures but do you really think Entienne won't show up in a future TSR product? Just thought I'd point that out since someone had mention Mark of Amber as showing that Mystara is run by players more than other settings. Mark of Amber's three paths is one reason I haven't ran it yet because I'm not sure if I want Entrienne returned to immortality or made a human mage. I guess that proves, if anything, that Mystara is runned by the DM and not the players ;> Well, it depends what you, as a DM, want. Its possible to steer PCs the way you want them go go quite easily - after all, as a DM you control all the info the PCs have. This is this "illusion of free will" thing - it doesnt matter if you herd the players as long as they don't realise it... But saying that I do allow a fair amount of detraction from the Canon timeline. I imagine that my War of Wrath will have many differences to the canon version, although the end result will most likely be largely the same (ie Alphatia sinking and all that). Even if you do make a grave error, letting the PCs alter something that you later regret, it can always be reversed with a later event. Better to let the party have their head and go where they will, IMO. An example: When I was running Vengeance of Alphaks, one of the players was a Heldannic Knight. Rather than having Thyatis invade Norwold, he got the Heldannic Territories to do it (he was a Count there), and at the end of the adventure managed to capture Landfall and add it to the Territories. Now I knew this was going to happen anyway in Canon timeline - but the PC didn't know that... and he came up with idea off his own head, o it wasn't even like I was leading him... On the same adventure, with the flying castle, the PCs were in a dilemma as to whether they were on the right side (ie Thyatis/Heldannic) given that the Alphatians were good aligned pegataurs... After a bit of fighting in the end the PCs backed off, and smuggled some captured Alphatian nobles out of the Thyatian jail cell back into Alphatia, in exchange for the Alphatians giving Norwold status as a full country in the Empire, rather than colonial status... All this detracted from the written adventure a fair amount (Norwold is supposed to declare independence and cozy up to Thyatis, who keep Alphatia at bay with Eriadna's kidnapped daughter). But in the long run the PCs own changes to that wont mean squat, given what happens later on to Norwold and that entire area. Hmm, reading all that makes me seem to be a really tight DM who never lets PCs make a permanent mark on the world... Trust me, I'm not like that... Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 11:43:31 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) >There might be other reason for picking a sword other than how much magic bonus it gives. The +2 sword could be something like the Sword of Thyatian Empire. This is, of course, very true. But it ain't just Thincol - its just about everybody... I think Jaggar has a +2 ring of protection... Besides, this isnt the point - the point was the comparison the the Realms. Check out Halasters magic items. And I reckon Menzoberranzan probably has more magic items then the entire of Alphatia, Bolt Men or no Bolt Men. As for them melting in sunlight - thats just a cheap shot to stop PCs from getting their hands on this stuff... Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 11:50:36 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File >I am surprised at the lack of "talk" on the Rakasta article in Dragon. Myself, >I found it a welcome addition. So much so that I was inspired to add a Rakasta >clan to one of my Davania projects. Nice job Bruce. Havn't read it. But Bellayne always puzzled me. On the one side it's like Elizabethan England (Queen Catherine/Good Queen Bess), with things like the Company of the Sun and the Company of the Times, names like Sir Jasper Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 11:04:12 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #267 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com Cockerfield, Theeds(Leeds?), Leminster(Westminster?) etc. etc. They even have the North/South divide... (coal mines Up North, rich fat cats(!) Down South)... Even the Bellaynish gold piece is called a Quid... But on the other side, they use katanas and have elements of samurai Japanese culture... Weird mix!!! It sez that Bellayne is split into nomadic rakasta and city rakasta. I've always assumed that the nomads are like the Japanese, and the city cats are like the English. But like I said, weird mix. BTW - do you think that TSR drew they ideas for races on the Savage Coast from cartoons? You have the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (tortle fighting monks), Samurai Pizza Cats (rakasta) and Dogtanian and the Three Muskehounds (lupins)... Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 07:06:40 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Marching Armies In a message dated 98-04-23 07:15:16 EDT, Lille My writes: << Now all this talking about Ethengar vs Glantri or the rest of the world, got me thinking on military in general. Once in a while I use armies or large groups of troops moving around, but I have always wondered about "travel times". How far can an army advance in a day, especially some of the special Mystaran armies, that are supported by magic or are heavy on cavalry, special races or skyships. >> Well the marching rate is pretty varying. Manyy factors have to be taken into account. Terrain, troop types, troop numbers, weather, familiarity with area, etc. all come to mind. And despite of these factors troop movements should vary from day to day to reflect good and bad condition, morale, and so on. A good based number to work with is the walking rate of a standard person. Even if mounted troops are used they will have to slow their pace to match the foot soldiers. And even a force composed entirely of cavalry and mounted infantry will not travel at much more than a walking pace. Whatever their means for transport, the force will require breaks to rest, eat, drink, feed horses, reorganize, etc. Terrain can break up an army requiring frequent halts to reorganize. Terrain can present bottlenecks and ambush spots halting movement. Natural barriers such as chasms and rivers will need to be crossed or another path discovered. Alas a simple question has been much complicated. My appologies. In my Operation Hydra I gave the Thyatians a base marching rate of 14 miles a day. Now this is Thyatis who is based on Rome. And the Roman Legions were well known for their marching ability. And usually the Cohorts (thyatis) were limited to 10-12 miles since they usually stop and prepae defenses before retiring. It shoulfd be noted that the terrain used by the Thyatians so far has been fairly open and offering few barriers or hinderences. Another source for help is within one of the AD&D boxes (G:KoM or K:KoM). Inside it has a map and given are based movement rates for terrain hexes. This info is probably in either the D&D or AD&D rules books. <> Like the movement this aspect has alot to do with variables. Weather, terrian, sun at their backs or in their face (rising or setting sun) are the most immediate factors. the coloration of the enemy's uniforms also plays into th mix. If one or both armies have recon (light cav) they can ride ahead feeling for the enemy. On an open and flat terrain with no weather conflictions with vision, I'd say 1-3 miles. Anything beyond that gets blurred in with the surroundings. <> IMO an invasion utilizing just the Standing Army is not a sufficient drain. However, mobilizing more troops can. I'd say an army representing 10% of the population is the limit of not affecting the domestic situation. This percentage is negated for nations that have a high percentage standing army. This is due to their economy being set up to maintain the level. An easy rule to use is doubling the army from prewar to circa war levels. Anything higher than that will undermine the domestic situation. <> Well alot depends on the invaders objectives. Does the invader want to conquer the entirety of the nation or just a portion? If a portion I'd suggest the invaders first attempt to occupy the desired areas. Then they push ahead. If stopped they sue for a treaty and hope to withhold the desired lands to the rear via compromise and negotiation. If it is a war for total conquest, the situation is indeed complex or it can be relatively simple. It all depends upon the two nations armies, the terrain, tactics, and so on. Each invasion offers a differing scenario to exploit. For example- In Operation Hydra (trying to stay away from Ethie and Glantri) I had the Thyatians secure a sealane to establish a rout from Thyatian mainland to Trader Island. The key objective was to occupy Harbortown and Minrothad City. To secure that sea lane, the Pirates on Fire Island had to be dealt with and Open Island occupied. The tactics were to prey on the island nature of Minrothad. Island chains are great for defenses, but the downside is that they spread out the defenders who have to cover these islands. What you see is an island hopping campaign directed at securing the sea lane and capturing Trader Island. If the Thadders do not surrender, the Thyatians (10 Cohorts and 10 Naval Fleets) will strike at other islands. The one that they absolutely do not wish to engage is the dwarves on Fortress Island. Ideally, they hope the Thadders will fold after Trader Island falls. Open Island and Fire Island are both to be taken to insure uninterrupted passage by Thyatian ships. The next island targeted would be North Island then Alfheisle Island. If the dwarves do not offer surrender then no big problem. The dwarves will be on the defensive and encapable of invading and retaking the occupied islands alone. <> I hope this helps. Though I fear I may have complicated matters more. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 08:18:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File At 11:50 AM 5/3/98 +0100, you wrote: >Havn't read it. But Bellayne always puzzled me. On the one side it's like Elizabethan England (Queen Catherine/Good Queen Bess), with things like the Company of the Sun and the Company of the Times, names like Sir Jasper Cockerfield, Theeds(Leeds?), Leminster(Westminster?) etc. etc. They even have the North/South divide... (coal mines Up North, rich fat cats(!) Down South)... Even the Bellaynish gold piece is called a Quid... I haven't seen that issue yet, either...it hasn't come to the Toronto area. >But on the other side, they use katanas and have elements of samurai Japanese culture... Weird mix!!! Huh? Umm, no. The Japanese Rakasta live up on the invisible moon, in Myoshima. Totally separate culture; the only time we visited Bellayne in the Princess Ark series, there were two Myoshiman rakasta present; Myojo, and the Myoshiman ambassador who tried to kill Myojo a couple of times. They got along a bit better at the end of the issue. But the rest of the Bellayne rakasta were very upper-crust English. >BTW - do you think that TSR drew they ideas for races on the Savage Coast from cartoons? You have the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (tortle fighting monks), Samurai Pizza Cats (rakasta) and Dogtanian and the Three Muskehounds (lupins)... I don't know about the tortles, but the rakasta and lupins were around long before TMNT and those other things; they were first introduced in X!, Isle of Dread. They weren't fleshed out as full races, but they were there. Bruce (all hail!) Heard gave them culture and personality. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 08:54:14 EDT From: LandoTW Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File In a message dated 98-05-03 08:43:05 EDT, you write: << Huh? Umm, no. The Japanese Rakasta live up on the invisible moon, in Myoshima. Totally separate culture; the only time we visited Bellayne in the Princess Ark series, there were two Myoshiman rakasta present; Myojo, and the Myoshiman ambassador who tried to kill Myojo a couple of times. They got along a bit better at the end of the issue. But the rest of the Bellayne rakasta were very upper-crust English. >> Nope...the previos post on this had it pretty much right on. The "nomadic" Rakasta who live on the fringes and the frontier of Bellayne have a very oriental feel to them. Predominantly Bellayne is "English" though. Some of the Honorbound Companies of Bellayne too have an oriental feel. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 09:17:57 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File In a message dated 98-05-03 08:43:04 EDT, Glen writes: << At 11:50 AM 5/3/98 +0100, you wrote: >Havn't read it. But Bellayne always puzzled me. On the one side it's like Elizabethan England (Queen Catherine/Good Queen Bess), with things like the Company of the Sun and the Company of the Times, names like Sir Jasper Cockerfield, Theeds(Leeds?), Leminster(Westminster?) etc. etc. They even have the North/South divide... (coal mines Up North, rich fat cats(!) Down South)... Even the Bellaynish gold piece is called a Quid... I haven't seen that issue yet, either...it hasn't come to the Toronto area. Dang that is two folks that do not have the mag. Well I can sympathize with ya guys. I screwed up and missed getting a copy of the Dragon with the Lupin article when it came out. The whole mag is pretty good. Besides, it is not everyday that Mystara gets an article published. Let us savor this moment. Now if I can only find where I put my copy..... Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 09:27:46 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) At 12:05 AM 5/3/98 -0400, you wrote: >Robert Fry pontificated: >>>But it says quite clearly that Thincol can get ahold of just about any magic item in existence. >>If this is the case, why is he listed as having a +2 sword? He might as >>well have a +5 - its no skin off his nose, after all... >There might be other reason for picking a sword other than how much magic bonus it gives. The +2 sword could be something like the Sword of Thyatian Empire. The sword that the first Thyatian Emperor used, and has passed down from one emperor to the next ever since. Especially consider that Thincol is unlikly to fight hand-to-hand with anyone anymore, there are really no reason for him to carry a weapon that just increase his fighting ability, or any weapon at all. So any weapon he carries would be there for some other reason. Absolutely. Any ruler is likely using a sword for heirloom or symbolic reasons. Besides...as far as fight ability goes, Thincol IS a sword +5!! It would be sort of silly for Thincol to carry aa 2-handed sword openly where ever he goes, wouldn't it? (Funny image of Clinton with a M-16 on his back while making State of Union Address suddenly pops into my head :). Or Dukakis in a tank... But it is not really. He is a fighter in a fighter's culture. Your idea regarding symbolism hit it right on the head. I had a character kept a sword +1 >throughout his adventure career, because it was a family heirloom. Had to modify the rule a bit so he can hit creature that can only be hit with highly magical weapons. I think that makes alot of sense. I am always willing to bend the rules a little regarding roleplay. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 09:46:13 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File At 06:20 AM 5/3/98 EDT, you wrote: >I am surprised at the lack of "talk" on the Rakasta article in Dragon. Myself, >I found it a welcome addition. So much so that I was inspired to add a Rakasta >clan to one of my Davania projects. Nice job Bruce. I agree. Excellent stuff. Everyone should purchase their own copy. 200 of one particular "Mystara-content" issue being sold is likely to be noticed... As for the lack of discussion, well those of us on the TSR message board have been discussing it extensively. Check out the boards and join us! http://tsronline.wizards.com:80/mb/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 10:37:07 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Chronomancy << Yeah, ive got in IMC. Checking out the Chronomancer book, it seems to me that chronomancers can alter history only as much as the DM allows - in my case I am reknowned for me tightness on such matters - so the timestream is practically unalterable IMC. I say that the timestream resists any changes (so an assassination attempt on Alexander Glantri would automatically fail etc.). However, you can still run adventures if the DM decides that he wants something changed (ie it is the adventure...)>> IIRC, Chronus keeps an eye on any that use this power. If someone choses to go to a certain period of time or great importance.... (Blackmoor, First Crowning of Thyatis, or to a time of Alexander Glantri as you stated), they will be "pushed" away by hours days, or even years from thier desired time. I don't think the restrictions should be too strict, but for any major place in time.....there should be intervention. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 10:40:52 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Chronomancy << So even though I try to use everything IMC to give players maximum freedom in their choice of PC, chronomancy has had a rocky history. Its not that chronomancers are too powerful, its just that chronomancy seems to disrupt game play too much. >> I agree..... This class looks much better under the control of the DM for most purposes.. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 10:46:24 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) << And I disagree strongly about the magic items. I think Thincol the 36th level fighter armed with his +2 two handed sword should be mentioned here, as should Morphail the 19th level (AD+D) necromancer with his six beads of force. I think aside from Alphatia magic items are very thin on the ground on Mystara - there may be a lot in the modules (arent there always?) but the Canon NPCs seem to have, in two words, Bugger All. >> On the flipside of that, take a look at Jaggar's inventory.....if you have enough time on your hands to read the whole list... or Ettienne's and his family as well. We're talking serious items, and quite a few of em. IMC the PCs don't really have these incredible items or especially in the quantity of how some of the NPCs have, but i do think the magical items in Mystara are pretty plentiful when comparing it to other worlds.... - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 11:03:41 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian knowledge of Clerics >Precisely the point. How many countries do you know, that ban a substance or a group, and then educate the country about that substance or group legitimately? In the US marijuanna and cuban cigars are illegal, but i really don't know anyone that hasn't seen any of the two in their life, or don't know about it at least. When something is banned it makes everyone interested on what exactly it is that your country is saying is "bad for you to come in contact with". It's like putting something out of reach to a baby......you're gonna try to find out more about it and get some first person experience with it. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #267 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Sunday, May 3 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 268 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - The Ruling Class Re: [MYSTARA] - Ahem...Glantri, Ethengar, and others... [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] ?????????? Thanks, Ta etc....(and now for something different) [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] The MML Homepage has Been Updated Again! Re: [MYSTARA] - Spell Applications Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File Re: [MYSTARA] - Ahem...Glantri, Ethengar, and others... Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File Re: [MYSTARA] - Draconic Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] The Role of Knights Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] The Role of Knights Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] The Role of Knights Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File Re: [MYSTARA] - Draconic Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian knowledge of Clerics Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 11:29:34 EDT From: The Motive Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Ruling Class Hola: My character in the current Mystara Campaign we're running (Using OD&D) system is only 1st level, but I already have aspirations of her becoming a baroness when she attains 9th level. I know, I know, that's a long way away, but one can dream, can't he? NOTE: To clear up any confusion back there, I am male in real life, my character is female. Now back to the topic at hand. I would like to make some sort of revised Ruling Class net.book that details what it's like to be of noble blood, how to run and organize fiefdoms, etc. I know all these rules are done in the Rules Cyclopedia, under Dominions & Strongholds (Chapter 12, pg. 134 - 142), but I really do not like their systems much. I would like to refine them and toss in a bit of historical reference. But I am not sure if TSR has already done this. If they've done it in a general "Complete Handbook to...", then I don't care and I'll make my own. =) But if they've done it using the OD&D system or something, I won't. So, could someone tell me if TSR has *already* made a campaign accessory that expands on the idea of royalty? Thanks, Technocrat *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 18:36:13 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ahem...Glantri, Ethengar, and others... At 18.33 30/04/98 EDT, Inconu wrote: >Just to add to this....On the other side, i really can't see Ethengar choosing >Aengmoor as an ally for any reason....there's no way that Ethengar would trust >those guys... Actually there's one way: magic. Members of the Second Shadow (the shadowelves' spy network) usually have lot of magical resources, so it shouldn't be a problem for them to persuade one of those uncrupulous Khan into attacking Glantri. Anyway this is a very unlike scenario IMO. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 02:32:03 +1000 From: Anakin Subject: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] ?????????? Thanks, Ta etc....(and now for something different) Greetings to one and all, Thanks to all those who helped out with suggestions for my little problem, It was so heart warming to see that there was no shortage of DM's out there with wonderful ideas on how to torment PCs. Anyway I now need some information (just out of curiosity for the moment) on the powerrds of an elven tree of life and the source material. I know that various parts of the tree can be used to make certain items but cannot remember the specifics. Also does the tree have any powers of its own, or for use by the keepers?????? Thanks, Anakin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 10:44:40 -0600 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] The MML Homepage has Been Updated Again! Mystarans, After the last post on the MML home page I recieved a lot of new stuff, so I have updated it yet again. New stuff includes new member directory entries (lots of those), a new Dragon back article (one of Bruce's Known World Grimoire), plus a couple new links to other pages, including the SaveMystara page. http://www.lesbois.com/members/malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com ICQ #4253672 "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 10:09:19 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spell Applications >How about using magic missle against the ropes that hold together those pesky >Catapults, or a modified lower powered magic missle (ie. one that does only >one point of damage) to startle horses......ouch bug bite.. how about summoning insects like gnats to 'bug' the horses? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 13:10:17 EDT From: Duncan TKD Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File Which clan of Racasta are on the Isle of dread? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 19:13:45 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File On Sun, 3 May 1998, Alex295 wrote: >I am surprised at the lack of "talk" on the Rakasta article in Dragon. Myself, I found it a welcome addition. So much so that I was inspired to add a Rakasta clan to one of my Davania projects. Nice job Bruce. >I have yet to check the game mechanics but I see few problems with the Rakasta layout. I do have one problem with an aspect of the article. That problem is based more on personal opinion and my own mental image of the rakasta. I await a few more days before commenting furhter. Perhaps by then that problem will not seem such a big deal. Darn. I havent got that one late. I'm really starting to get annoyed with my gaming store owner. Now he is 4 issues behind in Dragon. Im considering subscribing, but I dont know if its worth it if Im not getting a Mystara article every month. (Bruce you have done that before...) I'll have to comment on it later (Next year or something ;P) As this lists supreme champion of GURPS Mystara (Selfstyled, Leroy might disagree on this) Im thinking about converting these articles. Though, I may actually ignore much of this subrace stuff. Not to sound negative about it, but I prefer simplicity. Doesnt mean I dont enjoy reading about them though. I loved the pictures in the Lupin article. (No, not just the pictures ;) If anyone found this letter useful or interesting in anyway, raise you hands :D Saynonara Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 10:29:12 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ahem...Glantri, Ethengar, and others... on Wed, 29 Apr 1998 13:23:55 -0400 you wrote: AAt 10:02 AM 4/29/98 PDT, you wrote: >>>Thyatis vs Karameikos >>>The emperor sees his country disintegrating and concludes a swift aaattack on >>>the former duchy may bring that area back under the empire's wing. NNNeeded >>>revenues will flow, opening up the possibility of bringing other former >>>colonies back. >>I believe you want a war between the WDL and a weakened Empire of Thyatis, first of all, the WDL's troop are battle ready for Hule's second attempt at conquering the Known World, they can use Thyatis as Practice if the Thyatian attempt to expand in the known world. >I can see it happening like this: The powerful Thyatian war machine makes >a quick strike at Karameikos' coastal cities. They consolidate and move >swiftly toward the center. After a time, even the military centers fall >and rebels flee to the mountains. IF the rebels(read "pcs") can hold out >enough, the Western Defense League (if you use them) will enter the fray to >stabilize the area. But prior to that, I can see their action being delayed by diplomatic attempts to reconcile the situation... I'm sure that patroling Karameikan ships head by prince Devon Hyraksos, would have detected a fleet of Thyatian vessels coming toward them, an attack on Rugalov Village would have caused a courier to quickly head for Mirros before the Thyatians were to charge the village. plus Mirros is able to withstand a siege for about half a year i believe., so Emperor Eusebius would have to strick quick. >>>Incidently, before I run the events of WotI, my campaign will have to gggo >>>through major changes. I am going to contrive to have all the current >>>characters move on to other parts (Some back in time to Blackmoor, ooothers >>>out in space in a joint expedition between Alphatia and Thyatis). TTTheir >>>heirs will be approaching their coming of age when disaster strikes. AAAlak >>>Dool (now a lich) will come with a huge undead army and take the cccapital. >>why not have Alak take over the island from with the Shadow Dragons are >>from, where Synn came from. When Prince Heldamar last went there, he saw >>plenty of ruins, could be that those ruins are possible Blackmoorish in >>origin. >Hmm, maybe. But that island is REALLY far to the south... true, but you could also put it in one of islands of the Thanegoith Archeapelago, many of them are unexplored, besides your pcs want to see as much of the world as possible. >>>Any other countries that you can think of for adversarial roles? >>How about Eshu Vs. Nimmur, there's a huge history of hatred between the >>Man-Scorpion of Nimmur and the Winged Minotaur of Eshu. A Siege of Um-Shedu would make for an interesting campaign. >Yeah! Glad you like it. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 11:39:51 -0600 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File As this lists supreme champion of GURPS Mystara (Selfstyled, Leroy might disagree on this) Im thinking about converting these articles. Nope, no arguement from me. I dig GURPS (it is pretty much my overall favorite game system), but my interests are more academic than practical, since I gave up on plans of converting my D&D campaigns into GURPS. Though, I may actually ignore much of this subrace stuff. Not to sound negative about it, but I prefer simplicity. Doesnt mean I dont enjoy reading about them though. I loved the pictures in the Lupin article. (No, not just the pictures ;) Doesn't sound negative to me; different people have different tastes. I long ago developed the lupins and rakasta (the rakasta, for some reason, have always been one of my favorite aspects of Mystara. Don't ask me why, since the whole "cat people" thing is pretty generic fantasy stuff), and have no desire to change them. I much prefer the single "breed" of the originals. If anyone found this letter useful or interesting in anyway, raise you hands :D I tried raising my hands, but it made typing difficult. I had my version of the rakasta in GURPS, but seem to have lost it. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com ICQ #4253672 "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 13:43:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File Robert Fry pontificated: >Havn't read it. But Bellayne always puzzled me. On the one side it's like Elizabethan England (Queen Catherine/Good Queen Bess), with things like the Company of the Sun and the Company of the Times, names like Sir Jasper Cockerfield, Theeds(Leeds?), Leminster(Westminster?) etc. etc. They even have the North/South divide... (coal mines Up North, rich fat cats(!) Down South)... Even the Bellaynish gold piece is called a Quid... >But on the other side, they use katanas and have elements of samurai Japanese culture... Weird mix!!! I think Bruce mentioned this once. He wanted the region to have Elizabethan England feel, but when the project switched hand, the new designers change the rakastas back to Japanese-like. And Bruce doesn't sound too happy about it... - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 20:31:11 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Draconic Immortals On Sat, 2 May 1998, Kaviyd wrote: >In a message dated 98-05-01 12:23:48 EDT, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no writes: >>Anyway, The Glantri Gaz clearly states that the Craft of Drachology is a wwway to immortality. Though it seems unlikely that this should be possible, unless the Great One decided that it should be that way.. >Can you cite a specific reference to that effect? Assuming the (mortal identity) form of a dragon ruler and taking over his mortal identity's role is a far cry from becoming a true Immortal. Glantri Gaz Page 71: "At leve 24+ the High Master may attempt to turn into the Dragon Ruler of his alignment. If he succeeds the true Dragon Ruleris automatically aware of his location and identity. He will find the "impostor" and challenge him to a duel. If the High Master defeats the Dragon [...] he becomes the new Dragon Ruler (the former ruler retires to an outer plane)." Well, as I interprete this the High Master becomes Immortal if he defeats the Dragon Ruler. I suspect the Craft of Dracology is a project set in motion by the Great One to test his servants. I think Thelvyn faked his death in order to gain independence from the Dragon Hierarchy. After Jaggar resigned his immortal status, an Immortal Guardian became the new Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 18:00:44 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #268 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com Dragon Ruler. (the one described in WotI, perhaps?). Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 21:07:54 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] The Role of Knights On Sat, 2 May 1998, Robert Fry wrote: >>Someone pointed out to me that the Knights of medeival europe, never could have played such a role as they did, if European armies had consisted of diciplined professional armies, rather than farmers with spears. So I was wondering what effects this would have on a realistic approach on Thyatis. How is the land managed? Are there large farms (plantations) controlled by nobles and manned by slaves? >I think chivalry IRL was on the decline big time by the 15th century, which is roughly the technological frame in which Mystara is set. I reckon most countries are probably like pre civil war England - you have your noble in his manor, and his fleet of serfs (or freemen, in enlightened countries) who Man the Farm. In the more advanced countries like Thyatis their may well be landlords and independents who run what would effectively be a plantation... I think Knights don't really come into it, except in a few nations (Heldannic Territories, Karameikos), where the Knights effectively form an elite army under control of the nobles (or the Church or the Crown). But is it not right that the Knights disappeared because of the introduction of Gunpowder? Prior to that the Knights were virtually Invulnerable. (In spite of the dangerous crossbows since they were banned by the pope) Besides, there seems to be a lot of knights around. Does Thyatis have them? or not? Does it have any use for them? >Even when democracy was in its infancy (Oliver Cromwell) the situation was pretty similar for the people on the ground - lower classes run the farms for the upper classes, who own the land. >>Also. Should not Karameikos be more similar to Thyatis? Or the other way around? The fact that slavery is illegal in Karameikos will ofcourse change some things. Though I suspect that local farmers serve much of the same function. >I reckon Karameikos is based on the serf system (except Karameikos is enlightened, so substitute "freeman" for "serf"...). So your Traladaran/Thyatian nobles own the land, and the lower classes farm it. Probably the main difference between serf and freeman is that the serf doesnt get paid... >I think the "disciplined, professional armies" bit really separates Mystara from IRL. In the Middle Ages that didn't really exist... armies were raised on the spot, and composed of mercenaries. Admittedly some mercenaries were well trained and disciplined anyway (English archers were famous for their quality, but they were still mercs). On Mystara I think just about every nation has a permanent on staff army. This didnt happen IRL because the King didnt have enough money to pay for a standing army... or felt he would rather spend his cash on other things. Well, the Roman Empire did have a standing Army. (well it was constantly at war) So this would be where we got those from. I read somewhere that every army structure in all the coutries of the Known World used Thyatis' Army as a model. So, what Im trying to find out is: what is Mystara really like? Or: how would it be logical to assume that it is? Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 21:14:38 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] The Role of Knights On Sat, 2 May 1998, Galwylin wrote: >Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: >I don't think the South's slavery would be the example to follow. I do think that Thyatis' slave use would factor in though and that they would be present on the estates of nobles. The indentured servant seems more like Thyatis' model of slavery. The serfs of medieval times seem much like that. Only a few points of slavery really seem present. You may be right. At least the slaves arent considered "another race" which gives them a greater chance to earn freedom. >>Also. Should not Karameikos be more similar to Thyatis? Or the other way around? The fact that slavery is illegal in Karameikos will ofcourse change some things. Though I suspect that local farmers serve much of the same function. >I consider many of the farmers in Karameikos to be serfs though their freedom isn't as restrictive. Maybe when Stefan first took the rulership it was but he has since then allied his people to him as they forge a new nation where all are Karameikans. If all are Karameikans then the idea that some are subject to others wouldn't sit well with some. In Thyatis, the serfs (slave would probably be more descriptive) are tied to the land much as in medieval ages. In Karameikos, the protection of the lord is the more important aspect. A lord in Karameikos that allows his subjects to come to harm risks losing his estate as the people rise against him or leave. Thyatis is the opposite of this in my mind. They cling to an outdated system as their nation sinks in degradation. They will soon have to find how to make being a Thyatian something to be proud in that isn't hollow or risk having their nation fracture and weakened further. But does Thyatis have lords who are responsible for the lands? Or administrators perhaps, rather than warriors. Maybe they rely on military force rather than personal power? And why should the thyatian system be outdated? Clearly it is much more advanced than the primitive Feudal system? (At least if Thyatis= Roman Empire and Karameikos = Medeival European nation) Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 21:19:48 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File Leroy Van Camp wrote: >I tried raising my hands, but it made typing difficult. I had my version of the rakasta in GURPS, but seem to have lost it. LOL! :) I do have GURPS rakastas(standard race) on http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc/gurps.html There you can find all the other races I posted earlier. Right now Im working on converting the Faenare. Strangely enough I find making conversions fun. At the moment I dont allow any non-humans in my campaign though (well if you dont count the werewolf..) Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 15:51:43 EDT From: The Motive Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] The Role of Knights >>Also. Should not Karameikos be more similar to Thyatis? Or the other way around? The fact that slavery is illegal in Karameikos will ofcourse change some things. Though I suspect that local farmers serve much of the same function. Okay, answer me this: Even though Rome conquered a lot of Eastern Europe (Such as Hungary), did Eastern Europe develope along the lines of the Byzantine Empire? - - Technocrat *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 13:17:53 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File On Sun, 3 May 1998, LandoTW wrote: >Nope...the previos post on this had it pretty much right on. The "nomadic" Rakasta who live on the fringes and the frontier of Bellayne have a very oriental feel to them. Predominantly Bellayne is "English" though. Some of the Honorbound Companies of Bellayne too have an oriental feel. Not as originally presented by Bruce. Only after the AD&Difying Red Steel products was this the case. As it stands, we know there is contact between Myoshima and Bellayne anyway, so it is a reasonable assumption that the expansionistic Myoshimans have made some inroads into occupying Bellaynish territory, which could explain it. Similarly, I postulated that the Bellaynish have attempted to colonize Patera in my Patera Project posts- which I hope to get back to as soon as I pick up my Dragon mag this week! :) - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 19:04:11 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) At 19.01 02/05/98 -0500, Galwylin wrote: >The adventure, Mark of Amber, is another that leaves you with three choices and if Mystara returns, the path the adventure took will be decided by TSR. >Mark of Amber's >three paths is one reason I haven't ran it yet because I'm not sure if I want Entrienne returned to immortality or made a human mage. I guess that proves, if anything, that Mystara is runned by the DM and not the players ;> But the players don't necessarily know that there're 3 possible outcomes and which one they "choosed", so a DM can easily cheat and make of Etienne what he most likes (or what TSR decides)... - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 19:08:46 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File At 09.46 03/05/98 -0400, Daly wrote: >As for the lack of discussion, well those of us on the TSR message board have been discussing it extensively. Check out the boards and join us! >http://tsronline.wizards.com:80/mb/index.html Wouldn't it be more practical to move the message board discussion here? I mean, e-mail messages are easier (and cheaper and faster) to read and reply than message board ones. Just my opinion. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 19:10:45 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File At 11.50 03/05/98 +0100, you wrote: >Havn't read it. But Bellayne always puzzled me. On the one side it's like Elizabethan England (Queen Catherine/Good Queen Bess), with things like the Company of the Sun and the Company of the Times, names like Sir Jasper Cockerfield, Theeds(Leeds?), Leminster(Westminster?) etc. etc. They even have the North/South divide... (coal mines Up North, rich fat cats(!) Down South)... Even the Bellaynish gold piece is called a Quid... >But on the other side, they use katanas and have elements of samurai Japanese culture... Weird mix!!! I think the Japanese aspect was introduced only in AD&D Red Steel products. Bruce's Bellayne had a exclusive English feeling IIRC. Not sure though. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 22:22:09 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Draconic Immortals At 20.31 03/05/98 +0200, Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: >Well, as I interprete this the High Master becomes Immortal if he defeats the Dragon Ruler. In Dragon #170 Bruce intepretes it this way: "(...) the High Master of dracomancers may challenge a lesser dragon ruler and replace it. In so doing the High Master does not attain Immortality, but merely gains the ability to rule dragons of the corresponding ethos.". Hope this helps. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 17:58:20 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian knowledge of Clerics At 11:03 AM 5/3/98 EDT, you wrote: >>Precisely the point. How many countries do you know, that ban a substance or a group, and then educate the country about that substance or group legitimately? >In the US marijuanna and cuban cigars are illegal, but i really don't know anyone that hasn't seen any of the two in their life, or don't know about it at least. But that is not exactly what I said. I am talking education. The US educational system does not (perhaps rightly so) go into every detail about marijuanna. Bogey man mentality is mixed with clinical facts. But rarely does a teacher say "people smoke marijuanna cause it makes them feel good". And as for Cuban cigars, I don't remember them being mentioned at all. So when talking about the education of a people, you are unlikely to find a government being entirely neutral about a banned people. Perhaps one of our Russian list members could tell us how the Soviet Union described Christianity. I would be interested to hear and I would find such a comment very educational. Besides, that would likely be a better comparison than the marijuanna one... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 18:01:39 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File At 01:10 PM 5/3/98 EDT, you wrote: >Which clan of Racasta are on the Isle of dread? Good question. I think my suggestion would be either the Rakastadon (given the dinosaurs) or the leopard rakasta (given the foliage). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #268 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, May 4 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 269 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri's clerical knowledge Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] The Role of Knights Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] The Role of Knights [MYSTARA] - lupins, can they be player characters Re: [MYSTARA] - lupins, can they be player characters [MYSTARA] - More Thoul Stuff [MYSTARA] - The Role of Knights [MYSTARA] - Re:The Role of Knights Re: [MYSTARA] - Sea of Dread Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] The Role of Knights [MYSTARA] - Gareth (was: WWII) Re: [MYSTARA] - Product List Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] The Role of Knights Re: [MYSTARA] - Chronomancy Re: [MYSTARA] - Re:The Role of Knights Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) [MYSTARA] - Glantri and their Allies [MYSTARA] - Cuban Cigars Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] The Role of Knights ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 18:06:58 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri's clerical knowledge << Which brings up another aspect. Let us say a Glantrian noble goes off adventuring. His persona is imbued with the Glantrain attitude towards clerics. How is this attitude going to affect the party if the needed cleric is present? >> For the party....not so good. For the roleplaying aspect, it will be incredible. I've had a campaign with a mid-level fighter whom has done battle mostly with wizards his whole career. He doesn't trust them at all and, in fact, has a hatred for them. However, there was a time where he was without his party and was forced (if he wished to survive) to join a party which held a cleric. It made for great roleplaying. He wouldn't allow the mage to travel behind him, and constantly made it a point to try to leave the mage out of battle plans. However, after about a year now, he's been more tolerable to the party member as he's seen what can happen when magic is used in the right hands. All adventuring groups have their problems to overcome internally as well as externally. In your example, perhaps the Glantrian would refuse healing by the cleric....but in the end it would make for a better campaign. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 18:09:11 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] The Role of Knights At 09:14 PM 5/3/98 +0200, you wrote: >On Sat, 2 May 1998, Galwylin wrote: >>Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: >>I don't think the South's slavery would be the example to follow. I do think that Thyatis' slave use would factor in though and that they would be present on the estates of nobles. The indentured servant seems more like Thyatis' model of slavery. The serfs of medieval times seem much like that. Only a few points of slavery really seem present. >You may be right. At least the slaves arent considered "another race" which gives them a greater chance to earn freedom. On the contrary, Thyatis enslaves many people of other races. Historically (No, not just in America...) enslaving a person who looks different from you, makes it easier... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 18:12:33 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File At 07:08 PM 5/3/98 +0200, you wrote: >At 09.46 03/05/98 -0400, Daly wrote: >>As for the lack of discussion, well those of us on the TSR message board have been discussing it extensively. Check out the boards and join us! http://tsronline.wizards.com:80/mb/index.html >Wouldn't it be more practical to move the message board discussion here? I mean, e-mail messages are easier (and cheaper and faster) to read and reply than message board ones. >Just my opinion. Well, no. Besides, the idea is to have a strong presence on the boards. We already swamp all other settings! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 18:18:11 EDT From: LandoTW Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File In a message dated 98-05-03 16:42:11 EDT, you write: << Not as originally presented by Bruce. Only after the AD&Difying Red Steel products was this the case. >> That is indeed to what I was refering. I dont know it any other way than in AD&D terms. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 18:19:34 EDT From: LandoTW Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File In a message dated 98-05-03 16:44:39 EDT, you write: << I think the Japanese aspect was introduced only in AD&D Red Steel products. Bruce's Bellayne had a exclusive English feeling IIRC. Not sure though. >> Well..there is one way to find out. Ask him. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 19:04:23 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) Fabrizio Paoli wrote: >But the players don't necessarily know that there're 3 possible outcomes and which one they "choosed", so a DM can easily cheat and make of Etienne what he most likes (or what TSR decides)... Well that's really my point though. It's an illusion that the players are making an impact on the world. Their impact is only what the DM allows. Even though there are three outcomes, the one favored by the DM is going to be the one chosen no matter what the players do. What's the difference of having three choices to making the ending predetermined to start with? - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 19:09:28 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File Fabrizio Paoli wrote: >Wouldn't it be more practical to move the message board discussion here? I mean, e-mail messages are easier (and cheaper and faster) to read and reply than message board ones. At the time, Ethengar and Glantri looked to be destroying the world. We thought there wasn't room here ;> - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 22:11:57 EDT From: BoBo II Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File In a message dated 5/3/98 8:32:40 AM, Alex wrote: < Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] The Role of Knights < Subject: [MYSTARA] - lupins, can they be player characters i was wondering if its possible to be a lupin ranger in a ad&d game, i know they are suppost to be the monsters in savage coast but i think they are kindda cool, how would you create this humanoid into a player character, i dont have the humanoid book so im not sure how to go about this, but here are the monster stats from the red steel books if you know how to make a player character out of it let me know lupin climate/terrain:any frequency: common organization:band activity cycle:any diet: carnivore intelligence: average(8-10) treasure: k alingment:any (usualy good) _______________________ no.appearing:2d6 armor class: 10 movement: 12 hitdice: 2 thaco: 19 no. of attacks: 1 damage/attack:by weapon special attack: nil special defence:see below (i dont want to clutter it up to much) magic resistance: nil size: M (5'-7') moral: average (8-10) xp value: none listed if anybody can help me make a player character out of a lupin im sure one of you guys can *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 00:24:46 EDT From: Bimha2 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - lupins, can they be player characters in the sav coast campain book there are player stats for them the book is downloadable from the tsr site SAVAGE COAST(TM) Goodies *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 22:21:44 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: [MYSTARA] - More Thoul Stuff Here's some more on Thouls. In case you're wondering, this is related to a *big* project that I've nearly completed and will share with the list soon, and isn't just because I like Thouls (though I'm starting to. :) Thanks to Bruce Heard for all his hard work on humanoids of Mystara, and most specifically for the format that I've used to present Thouls as a PC race. Thoul - ------- Related to Trolls and Hobgoblins, Thouls most closely resemble the latter, though they tend to be leaner and more bestial looking. Most of them are very unclean and unsociable, even for humanoid kind. Average Size: 6' + d12 inches Fitness (d6): 1-3: Skinny 4-5: Normal 6: Fat Goblinus Monstrum Cannibalis: Pale skinned, with dirty brown or black hair. Bulldog facial features. Usually wearing animal hides and using rock clubs or natural claws as weapons. Cannibals, they can be found among most Hobgoblin communities, in isolated camps. Particularly fierce Thouls are often chosen as elite guards. Goblinus Monstrum Necrophagous: Dead white skin. White hair usually braided with bones. Very thin and wasted looking, with toadlike facial features- often with bone piercings. Wear skins- animal and humanoid alike- and use bone clubs or claws. Live in deep caverns or isolated communities (such as Tombstone in Glantri) far from other humanoids. Their necromantic practices and habits of feasting on corpses (often long dead) lead other humanoids to stay away from them. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 01:33:32 -0500 From: Brunciak Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Role of Knights Greetings! First off, I'd like to say that I've been away from the list for quite awhile thanks to school, work, and my computer and that ever since I started reading my mail I realized that the list has blossomed with more members (I've seen at least ten new e-mail addresses;either they're new members or silent ones who decided to open up). I see this as a great sign of the rebirth of Mystara. Hoorah! Anyway, on to the talk of Knights. This thread is really interesting and I had to share my thoughts (here we go)! In the real world, I've always seen Knights as mercenaries and in truth that's what they were. Yes they did have a code of chivalry but let's be honest-They were guys who live by their ability to fight. they traveled Europe fighting for money mostly and in the service of someone. In Mystara, the role of Knights probably wouldn't change even though Mystara has a great deal of standing armies. In the real world, Rome never needed anything like knight because it had a professional army. In the Middle Ages, however, one of the only places in Europe able to pay for a professional and standing army was the Byzantine Empire, and they even hired mercenaries sometimes. So in Mystara, Knights would still be valuable because you need people to supplement your standing army during war. Knights went where the war was so I wouldn't see any real change between Earth and Mystara. There has also been disscussion on how land was controlled in Thyatis and the situation with slaves. Even though I don't see Thyatis as Mystaran form of the Byzantine Empire, I'll use it's early system as a template. Farms were large estate ruled by powerful nobles. they weren't staffed by freemen-farmers. There were no serfs in Byzantium until well into its history though slavery was still practiced (however, it was more like a kinder Roman slavery where prisoners of war were made slaves or poor folks sold family members into it and the slaves were treated more like serfs). This is how I would deal with Thyatis' land- large Estates held by powerful nobles staffed mostly by freemen-farmers (though very poor) with a minority of serfs who are way too poor to be free. Slaves in Thyatis would mostly be in an urban setting with a few on these estates. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 01:35:51 -0500 From: Brunciak Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re:The Role of Knights Received: from mx05.erols.com (mx05.erols.com [207.172.3.245]) by mail2.erols.com (8.8.5/8.7.3/970701.001epv) with ESMTP id CAA26048 for ; Mon, 4 May 1998 02:27:39 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from brunciak@erols.com) Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by mx05.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/MX-980323-gjp) with ESMTP id CAA27223 for ; Mon, 4 May 1998 02:27:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 207.172.196.136 (207-172-196-190.s63.as1.hck.erols.com [207.172.196.190]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id CAA10258 for ; Mon, 4 May 1998 02:27:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <354D612A.69C5@erols.com> Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 01:33:42 -0500 From: Brunciak Reply-To: brunciak@erols.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: brunciak@erols.com CC: brunciak@erols.com Subject: The Role of Knights References: <38d366cf.354ccad0@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Motive wrote: >Okay, answer me this: Even though Rome conquered a lot of Eastern Europe (Such as Hungary), did Eastern Europe develope along the lines >of the Byzantine Empire? -- Technocrat Well-Sort of. Yes the Roman Empire did conquer much of Eastern Europe. However, it failed to culturally conquer Eastern Europe. That's the big difference between Rome and Byzantium. The Roman Empire would send it's legions to your town and then take your city, set up a goverment, and make you part of the Empire. Byzantium though would send your town a Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 07:19:58 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #269 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com delegation full of people bringing treasures, gifts, missionaries willing to convert people, and ambassadors to make treaties and alliances. See the point I'm trying to make? Rome was a military Empire-it used its army to maintain the empire. Byzantium was a cultural empire-it used its culture to hold the Empire together and spread its culture beyond its boundary. That's why Eastern Europe inherited much influence (though not all by far) from Constantinople yet was never part of the Empire. The only reason any part of Western Europe was influenced by Rome was because it used to be part of the same state. Do you ever see any Roman influence outside of its boundaries? Not likely. Now this is my take on Thyatis. I used to see it as a Byzantine-sort-of-Empire. Yet the more I look at it, it seems like a late Roaman Empire just before Constantine with a great deal of fictional culture from those people at TSR who designed the Empire. My personal opinion is that Thyatis is neither Roman or Byzantine-IT'S MYSTARAN! Bob ( You know-the guy obbsessed with the Byzantine Empire :-) ) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 01:03:44 PDT From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sea of Dread Hi all ... I'm writting now a guide of one of the northest island of the archipelago of island of dread. It'll be on the net @ www.geoccities.com/Area51/Shires/7837/jdra.html But it's still non accessible. Coming soon in french and then in English ( not my native tongue ). It'll be about a group of pirate installed on a tiny Island. Scenarii folowing X1 coming soon with this background. Semper Fi. Marcus ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 01:20:54 PDT From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] The Role of Knights >From owner-mystara-l@phaser.showcase.mpgn.com Sat May 2 11:33:04 1998 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) bby phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA05474; Sat, 2 May 1998 14:20:55 -0400 >Received: by lists.MPGN.COM (bulk_mailer v1.5); Sat, 2 May 1998 14:20:55 -0400 >Received: (from majordom@localhost) >by phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA05436 for mystara-l-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 14:20:35 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@lists.MPGN.COM using -f RReceived: from Mithril.MPGN.COM (Mithril.MPGN.COM [206.66.87.8]) bby phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA05390 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 14:20:03 - -0400 >Received: from papaya.mail.easynet.net (papaya.mail.easynet.net [195.40.1.40]) by Mithril.MPGN.COM (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA04188 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 14:20:01 -0400 RReceived: (qmail 14487 invoked from network); 2 May 1998 18:18:22 -0000 Received: from rmunch.easynet.co.uk (HELO twleckuj) (212.212.64.146) bby papaya.mail.easynet.net with SMTP; 2 May 1998 18:18:22 -0000 Message-ID: <00c101bd75f6$ad6f5080$9240d4d4@twleckuj> From: "Robert Fry" To: >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] The Role of Knights Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 18:58:42 +0100 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; >charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >X-Priority: 3 >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-mystara-l@lists.MPGN.COM >Reply-To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM >Probably the main difference between serf and freeman is that the serf doesnt get paid... Sorry to disagree but serf belong to the land where he's born ( as when you buy a house with tools :'meubles' in French ) but freeman belong to themselves. Serf is another term for slave. Bye ... Marcus. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 10:51:46 +0200 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Gareth (was: WWII) At 16.32 30/04/98 -0400, Steelangel wrote: OOn Thu, 30 Apr 1998, DM wrote: >>(anti-Hule bands who fight in the name of Gareth and under the ^^^^^^^ >This may have been asked before, but which Immortal is this? Has it been revealed? Well, yes and no.. PWAs hint at many possibilities, and i believe the most consistent it's that Gareth is Benekander. Personally, i don't like this idea, but so far is the most "canonic" reference. DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 10:53:39 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Product List At 15.36 30/04/98 -0500, Vinny wrote: >I saw a list of all the Mystara products, both D&D and AD&D, some where on the web. I can no longer remember where I was wondering if someone knew where one might be. Or, if anyone has a list please send it to me at vvogt667@uwsp.edu There's one fairly big in my homepage (which has been updated today...;)): http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 01:55:03 PDT From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] The Role of Knights >From owner-mystara-l@phaser.showcase.mpgn.com Sat May 2 11:33:04 1998 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) bby phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA05474; Sat, 2 May 1998 14:20:55 -0400 >Received: by lists.MPGN.COM (bulk_mailer v1.5); Sat, 2 May 1998 14:20:55 -0400 >Received: (from majordom@localhost) >by phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA05436 for mystara-l-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 14:20:35 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@lists.MPGN.COM using -f RReceived: from Mithril.MPGN.COM (Mithril.MPGN.COM [206.66.87.8]) bby phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA05390 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 14:20:03 - -0400 >Received: from papaya.mail.easynet.net (papaya.mail.easynet.net [195.40.1.40]) by Mithril.MPGN.COM (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA04188 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 14:20:01 -0400 RReceived: (qmail 14487 invoked from network); 2 May 1998 18:18:22 -0000 Received: from rmunch.easynet.co.uk (HELO twleckuj) (212.212.64.146) bby papaya.mail.easynet.net with SMTP; 2 May 1998 18:18:22 -0000 Message-ID: <00c101bd75f6$ad6f5080$9240d4d4@twleckuj> From: "Robert Fry" To: >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] The Role of Knights Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 18:58:42 +0100 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; >charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >X-Priority: 3 >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-mystara-l@lists.MPGN.COM >Reply-To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM >Probably the main difference between serf and freeman is that the serf doesnt get paid... Sorry to disagree but serf belong to the land where he's born ( as when you buy a house with tools :'meubles' in French ) but freeman belong to themselves. Serf is another term for slave. Bye ... Marcus. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 12:07:13 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Chronomancy At 07.51 02/05/98 EDT, Inconu wrote: >Talking about time travel.....I was wondering if anyone has integrated chronomancy into thier mystara. Seeing how Mystara is so full of magic, it would make sense for Chronomancy to be used somewhere in Mystara. >IMC i have it as a lost art, something used back around the time of Blackmoor and disappearing around 2500-3000 BC.....however a few NPCs have unearthed the >lost arts and may use them. >For those who might not know...Chronomancy is the art of using magic to manipulate time. Anyone use it? I do! I've translated the AD&D chronomancer classes into D&D rules for gaming pourposes and i have already used a chronomancer in one of my last adventures (WotI, to be precise: basically, this chronomancer helped the PCs escape a temporal rift where Hel had imprisoned them from AC1006 to AC1009 after they found her Balthac Shrine.. After they escaped -and learnt 3 years had passed!-, they confronted the screaming fiends and then headed to Glantri City for the Grand Final, then the chronomancer disappeared). I also plan to use time travel in my ultimate Last Adventure and in another adventure involving Thanatos and the Oesterhaus family. So as u see, yes, i use that supplement! :) DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 06:42:52 EDT From: The Motive Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re:The Role of Knights << Well-Sort of. Yes the Roman Empire did conquer much of Eastern Europe. However, it failed to culturally conquer Eastern Europe. That's the big difference between Rome and Byzantium. >> Thanks, you just proved my point. =) Thyatis (in my opinion at least) has turned into a sort of Byzantine Empire. In 1014 AC, it's more into politickings and such then it is into conquering other nations. - - Technocrat *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 07:09:09 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) << Well that's really my point though. It's an illusion that the players are making an impact on the world. Their impact is only what the DM allows. Even though there are three outcomes, the one favored by the DM is going to be the one chosen no matter what the players do. What's the difference of having three choices to making the ending predetermined to start with? >> I strongly disagree here. In the module there is a point system used by the DM to determine the outcome of the adventure. The DM shouldn't favor one way or the other. If he would...then what's the point of running the module? You have to allow the players to earn the points as described in the adventure. There are three choices and none are predetermined if it is run correctly by the DM. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 11:04:32 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Glantri and their Allies Having just leafed through the Ethie gaz, and finding the theoretical Glantri/Ethie war scenario in it - when I reckoned that Darokin would enter the war on the Glantrian side I wasn't far wrong - at least, thats what it sez in the Ethie gaz... Concerning the shadow elves... In the canon PWAs Glantri is the one more or less ally the Shadow Elves actually have, both being highly magical kingdoms, and perhaps influenced by the fact that Rad and Rafiel are best mates. (I think that alone would be a reason why the Shadow Elves would ally with Glantri). Whereas the Rockhome dwarves (the allies of Ethengar, in all the chat) absolutely despise the shadow elves, and I seriously doubt that they would fight along side them for their beluvved allies... So I don't think the Ethies could expect any help from Aengmor (perhaps quite the contrary), and I still think Darokin would get involved. Check out the size of the Darokinian army - its rather large (admittedly Darokin is huge, so they need a big army to cover its borders) and very well equipped (phenomenal BRs). Not exactly a wimpy merchant country... And concerning the Darokinian army being stripped after WotI, it hints in some of the PWA material that the Darokinian army didnt bear the full brunt of the Masters assault - the Karameikan army did it for them... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 11:50:36 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Cuban Cigars >In the US marijuanna and cuban cigars are illegal, Cuban 'gars are illegal in the US???? I'm amazed. "You Learn Something New Every Day." Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 11:32:18 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] The Role of Knights disappeared because of the >introduction of Gunpowder? Prior to that the Knights were virtually Invulnerable. (In spite of the dangerous crossbows since they were banned by the pope) Besides, there seems to be a lot of knights around. Does Thyatis have them? or not? Does it have any use for them? Partyly due to gunpowder - but they were really on the decline even before that. The Battle of Agincourt was a fight between an English peasant army and French Knights. The English still won, thanks to the longbow. The English persisted in using longbows rather than guns well into the 15th century, but the knight still declined anyway. Knights belonged in the Dark Ages, back with King Arthur... I consider the knightly orders of Mystara to either be throwbacks (Karameikan knights) who have now been "modernised", or knightly orders like the Heldannics (Teutonics?). I think the role of knights was to roam the land, and basically act as mercs - supposedly fighting for the right, thanks to chivalry. In times of war these experienced veterans led the peasants. Taking the Griffon Knights of Karameikos as an example... IMC the Knights roam the land, slaying dragons and doing other Knightly Deeds for the benefit of the population, and perhaps more importantly spreading the word of the Church of Karameikos throughout the wilds of Karameikos. In times of war (like now, IMC) the Knights do the recruitment, and also the training, of the troops. And will lead them in battle. And because Karameikos still has a feudal (more or less) system, the Knights have a great deal of the Crowns authority (I think a Knight ranks at least equal to landed lord? I may be wrong on this) as well as the Churches. Troubleshooters, on behalf of the Crown. IMC I assume that Thyatis has various knightly or pseudo knightly orders (the Order of Vanya?). IMC they have a knightly order based around Valerias called the Rose Knights (I do like Krynn...). Mainly running Red Steel I consider knights to be like the Savage Coast Honorbound - basically glorified adventurers guilds, with a bit of social clout because of their good standing... Well, that was a bit of a disjointed ramble! Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #269 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, May 4 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 270 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Innovatice Uses for Spells. Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri's clerical knowledge Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File Re: [MYSTARA] - The Ruling Class Re: [MYSTARA] - Chronomancy [MYSTARA] - Feudalism [MYSTARA] - The AD+D Lupin [MYSTARA] - Magic Items - I Hate 'Em! Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File Re: [MYSTARA] - The AD+D Lupin Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Items - I Hate 'Em! Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] The Role of Knights Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] The Role of Knights [MYSTARA] - Magic Items Ya lpour et lcontre : 2 sides [MYSTARA] - Magic Items Ya lpour et lcontre : 2 sides ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 11:09:41 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Innovatice Uses for Spells. Sorry, couldnt resist... How about an improved invisibility Prince Morphail with contingency teleport if he is about to be destroyed, armed up with as many Death Spells as he can memorise (a lot, with the Glantrian Wizard kit). Or even better, reduced to 1" high and sitting innocently on a little tree branch, casting his spells at the sleeping Ethie camp. Each death spell = 40 ethie warriors killed, no raise or resurrection. Being conservative, Morphail can manage about six death spells per day - so thats 200 warriors. Using the full grossness of the Glantrian Wiz, and he could probably manage nigh on twenty death spells... Bye bye, army... Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 11:52:38 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri's clerical knowledge ><< Which brings up another aspect. Let us say a Glantrian noble goes off aadventuring. His persona is imbued with the Glantrain attitude towards clerics. How is this attitude going to affect the party if the needed cleric >is present? >> >For the party....not so good. For the roleplaying aspect, it will be incredible. Oh yes. I absolutely love culture clash roleplaying. Thats why I like Spelljammer. Any race, any world, all mixed together in an impromptu adventuring party, and forced to cooperate. Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 10:55:56 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File >Not as originally presented by Bruce. Only after the AD&Difying Red Steel products was this the case. As it stands, we know there is contact between Myoshima and Bellayne anyway, so it is a reasonable assumption that the expansionistic Myoshimans have made some inroads into occupying Bellaynish territory, which could explain it. Similarly, I postulated that the Bellaynish have attempted to colonize Patera in my Patera Project posts- which I hope to get back to as soon as I pick up my Dragon mag this week! :) How did the Bellaynish rakasta get to Patera? DO they have flying ships too? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 12:12:17 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File >>Havn't read it. But Bellayne always puzzled me. On the one side it's >>like Elizabethan England (Queen Catherine/Good Queen Bess), with things like >>the Company of the Sun and the Company of the Times, names like Sir Jasper >>Cockerfield, Theeds(Leeds?), Leminster(Westminster?) etc. etc. They even have the North/South divide... (coal mines Up North, rich fat cats(!) Down >>South)... Even the Bellaynish gold piece is called a Quid... >>But on the other side, they use katanas and have elements of samurai Japanese culture... Weird mix!!! >I think Bruce mentioned this once. He wanted the region to have Elizabethan England feel, but when the project switched hand, the new designers change the rakastas back to Japanese-like. And Bruce doesn't sound too happy about it... I'm not too happy about it either! (being English). Ah well - I'm still going to have a tiny Bellaynish navy whip the Vilaverdans with some fireships and a good storm... Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 12:14:43 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Ruling Class >Now back to the topic at hand. I would like to make some sort of revised Ruling Class net.book that details what it's like to be of noble blood, how to >run and organize fiefdoms, etc. I know all these rules are done in the Rules >Cyclopedia, under Dominions & Strongholds (Chapter 12, pg. 134 - 142), but I >really do not like their systems much. I would like to refine them and toss in >a bit of historical reference. >But I am not sure if TSR has already done this. If they've done it in a general "Complete Handbook to...", then I don't care and I'll make my own. =) >But if they've done it using the OD&D system or something, I won't. So, could >someone tell me if TSR has *already* made a campaign accessory that expands on >the idea of royalty? Sounds absolutely wild!!!!!!! I'm looking for some "kingdom administration" rules and background material, being lumbered with the old Companion set stuff (which works - just - but isn't much cop, IMHO). My friend has posted me a mass of Birthright stuff, which I have high hopes for (seems like a cool campaign - and it was canned by TSR, so it can't be that bad!). Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 11:36:48 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Chronomancy >IIRC, Chronus keeps an eye on any that use this power. If someone choses to go >to a certain period of time or great importance.... (Blackmoor, First Crowning >of Thyatis, or to a time of Alexander Glantri as you stated), they will be "pushed" away by hours days, or even years from thier desired time. I don't >think the restrictions should be too strict, but for any major place in time.....there should be intervention. Ahh, but who is to say whether the timeline resisting change is not intervention? That way PCs can still meet the Greats (Alexander Glantri), but cannot really influence things. If I was using chronomancy a lot (I'm not) I would set the PCs in the role of the Time Police, or something (Timecop, anyone?), chasing after the Forces of Evil through timeand defeating them at different stages of history. I don't know if anyone has read the Falcon set of adventure gamebooks, when you are a temporal special agent, but those books are brilliant and quite adaptable to D+D (once you switch sci fi to fantasy). I know it says that Mystara has no mortal Time Police as the Immortals do it, but I think that campaign hook is to good to be missed. Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 11:16:48 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Feudalism >>Probably the main difference between serf and freeman is that the serf doesnt get paid... >Sorry to disagree but serf belong to the land where he's born ( as when you buy a house with tools :'meubles' in French ) but freeman belong to themselves. Serf is another term for slave. >Bye ... Marcus. The serfs didnt consider themselves to be slaves. Serfs had a responsibility in the feudal system of minding the land (so you are right about that). They effectively belonged to the lord, because they were beneath him in the feudal hierarchy. But serfs were content, because they were still a part of that hierarchy - they had their duties, the same as the even the King, in principle. In principle the feudal barons duty was to look after his serfs and keep them happy. In that respect serfs were not slaves - they were a valued part of society. A baron killing one of his serfs has breached one of the principles of feudalism, and would (should?) be punished. Slaves, on the other hand, had no feudal rights at all, and were, put simply, the lowest form of life... No one would give a damn if a slave was killed on a whim. Of course, this is the "principles" of feudalism. In actuality the barons did treat the serfs like slaves for the most part - but that does go against the feudal system. Whenever it got too bad the serfs all revolted (the Peasant Revolution in England?) and the barons treated them better - for a while, anyway. Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 12:09:02 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: [MYSTARA] - The AD+D Lupin >i was wondering if its possible to be a lupin ranger in a ad&d game, i know they are suppost to be the monsters in savage coast but i think they are kindda cool, how would you create this humanoid into a player character, i dont have the humanoid book so im not sure how to go about this, but here are the monster stats from the red steel books if you know how to make a player character out of it let me know Yes, of course you can! Lupins are described as a PC race in the AD+D Red Steel book! By now you have probably looked it up yourself, but what the hell, I'm bored, so I'll type it all out for you... LUPINS (+1 Strength, +1 Con, -1 Int, -1 Wis) but see Dragon on how to play a Rottweiler... Max/Min Stats (before the racial modifiers...) Str 8/18 Dex 3/18 Con 8/18 Int 3/18 Wis 3/18 Chr 3/18 Classes Available... (with level limits in brackets) Fighter (13) Ranger (U) Wizard (12) Cleric (15) Druid (13) Thief (13) Bard (9) Psionicist (8) also diviner, abjurer, invoker, necromancer... Lupin can dual class, like humans. They cannot be multiclassed. Thief Skill Adjustments F/RT (+5%) Detect Noise (+20%, +2% per level after 1st) Climb Walls (-5%) Note that all lupins get Detect Noise at 35% + 2%/level, even if they are not thieves. Average Height and Weight Height (Inches) Weight (Pounds) Base Modifier Base Modifier 60/58 +2d12 150/140 +6d6 Starting Age, 15 +1d6. Aging the same as humans. Abilities... 99% chance of recognising a werewolf in any of its forms, 15% chance of recognising other lupins in unusual forms. Gains an automatic save vs spells at +4 to notice any invisible, phased, ethereal and astrally projected creatures if they approach to within 10'. Get blind fighting proficiency for free. Gain tracking for free with a proficiency rating of half their Wisdom. If a single slot is spent on tracking thet track at their full Wisdom score. Ranger lupins track with a +6 bonus. Lupins can recognise, by smell, any race they have smelt before. They can recognise an individual smelt before with a successful Intelligence check. Strong odors can incur up to a -4 penalty to recognise someones smell. Lupins suffer a -2 saving throw penalty when targeted by smell based attacks (stinking cloud etc.) or sound based attacks (harpy songs etc.) Lupins are repelled by wolfsbane (Ingested they must save vs poison or die, and if they save they take 20 damage). Injected wolfsbane causes all ability scores to half for d3 days if a save vs poison is failed. However, a lupins senses are so acute that they will always smell wolfsbane if it is nearby. Lupins have infravision to 60'. ---------------- - ------------- But aranea are cooler... Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 11:49:42 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Magic Items - I Hate 'Em! >On the flipside of that, take a look at Jaggar's inventory.....if you have enough time on your hands to read the whole list... or Ettienne's and his family as well. We're talking serious items, and quite a few of em. IMC the PCs don't really have these incredible items or especially in the quantity of >how some of the NPCs have, but i do think the magical items in Mystara are pretty plentiful when comparing it to other worlds.... I have looked at Jaggar. He has a ring of protection plus 1... I think I may have been corrupted by my friends Planescape campaign (which I do enjoy, incidentally). That involves going into Sigil and buying +5 swords which have been psionically tempered made from Avernus Greensteel... I just dont see Mystara as that powered. Where is the Mystaran cowl of warding? There is no way that a 24th level wizard anywhere but Krynn or Mystara is going to have a mere ring of protection +1. I think that this is good, personally. I prefer a low magic item campaign. I dole out special skills and abilities instead (like the Glantrian Circles). I consider them to be far cooler (I absolutely hate characters defined by their equipment lists, which is what generally happens at high level in my experience) and more logical, with respect to simple economics. I often run and play in high level campaigns (around 15th level, AD+D). To my knowledge, in the entire Gaming History of My Life, these worthy PCs (a high proportion of which were mages and priests) made less than a dozen items, if that. But they must have picked up literally hundreds along the way - every 15th level character generally has at least 10 items. Where do they all come from? And don't give me the "ahh, they have all been left over from ancient Nithia" thing. If this is so then all the listed NPCs would have a truly vast arsenal to choose from. Thincol may have a +2 sword for reasons other than power (incidentally Thincol is called "the Brave" because he personally leads his army in battle - which means that he probably is going to want to get his hands on all the juicy equipment he can). But why not also a +5 ring, +5 cloak, etc. etc. If he can get his hands on this stuff, he would be an absoloute idiot not to do so. (As Garibaldi said in Babylon 5, I don't like guns, but if every else has got guns I want to make damn sure I have the biggest gun of all...) The problem with magic items are that PCs will always have more than the NPCs, because as they adventure they take them off the bad guys. I consider on Mystara that very few items are just "lying around" - I reckon that most of Jaggars gear, for example, was either made by himself personally or left to him by his family. Cheerz ROB (BTW - i am pretty fanatical on this subject... I'm interested as to other peoples views, but don't expect a conversion! I have seen nothing good ever come out of high magic item campaigns. Besides, I'm stubborn, being a Taurus...) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 08:12:09 EDT From: LandoTW Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File In a message dated 98-05-03 20:24:54 EDT, you write: Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 10:13:40 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #270 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com << At the time, Ethengar and Glantri looked to be destroying the world. We thought there wasn't room here ;> >> ::too busy rolling on the floor & laughing to type a response:: Al *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 08:14:58 EDT From: LandoTW Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The AD+D Lupin In a message dated 98-05-04 07:59:29 EDT, you write: << But aranea are cooler... Cheerz ROB >> I happen to be partial to Tortles myself...but, thats another string of posts all together! Al - -totally shell-shocked- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 14:11:44 +0000 From: wizzard@mail.intcom.de Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Items - I Hate 'Em! Hi folks, concerning: >I think that this is good, personally. I prefer a low magic item campaign. I dole out special skills and abilities instead (like the Glantrian Circles). I consider them to be far cooler (I absolutely hate characters defined by their equipment lists, which is what generally happens at high level in my experience) and more logical, with respect to simple economics. Well, IŽm into the same thing but remember that it is also up to the PC. If they WANT magic items you have to give them. It is like a reward for being an adventurer. Therefore I try to give them "items of use" and useable ones which means using them means using them up! Think of potions and that stuff. So I try to do every item that way. And remember, magic items arenŽt indestructible - normally!! Last time a PC lost all his magic items after falling for about 50-100 feet. - --> BUT: I warned him several times that NOT using them when they seem fit is like not wanting them. - --> I donŽt like gatherers. On the other hand if the PC "always" gain abilities they are much faster too powerful and it is far more easy to strip him of an item than stripping him of an ability!! Nevertheless I prefer abilities for they are "real" rewards for good roleplay. concerning: >Thincol may have a +2 sword for reasons other than power (incidentally Thincol is called "the Brave" because he personally leads his army in battle - which means that he probably is going to want to get his hands on all the juicy equipment he can). But why not also a +5 ring, +5 cloak, etc. etc. If he can get his hands on this stuff, he would be an absoloute idiot not to do so. (As Garibaldi said in Babylon 5, I don't like guns, but if every else has got guns I want to make damn sure I have the biggest gun of all...) Yes and No. On the other hand think of this person as self-confident. He simpy doesnŽt need all this magic items. Perhaps he lives by a code of honor, he doesnŽt need gadgets because "a real man (wizard, ...) doesnŽt need ...", or because using this items would mean that the problem is no longer a challenge anymore and sincerely knowiung there is no danger makes being an adventurer obsolete. Perhaps he wants to use lower magic that a threat is still a threat. WasnŽt that the cause for becoming an adventurer. The thrill of danger, a battle to death, ... ??? concerning: >The problem with magic items are that PCs will always have more than the NPCs, because as they adventure they take them off the bad guys. But (with regards to a Dragon article - canŽt recall which one) a BAD guy uses BAD magic items or at least this is in my campaigns. There is something like an aura and magic items used by "evil ones" (donŽt like this phrase) are tainted and therefore cursed if used by "good ones". The item simply reacts on behalf of his former owner and makes a bonus a malus because it is used by "the wrong side". recarging: >Besides, I'm stubborn, being a Taurus...) Well, I donŽt mind because IŽm a Taurus, too. I think this is the beginning of a "nice" discussion. Wizzard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 08:44:54 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] The Role of Knights At 11:32 AM 5/4/98 +0100, you wrote: >disappeared because of the >>introduction of Gunpowder? Prior to that the Knights were virtually Invulnerable. (In spite of the dangerous crossbows since they were banned by the pope) Besides, there seems to be a lot of knights around. Does Thyatis have them? or not? Does it have any use for them? >Partyly due to gunpowder - but they were really on the decline even before that. The Battle of Agincourt was a fight between an English peasant army and French Knights. The English still won, thanks to the longbow. The English persisted in using longbows rather than guns well into the 15th century, but the knight still declined anyway. As you say, the longbow cut through plate like it was paper... >Knights belonged in the Dark Ages, back with King Arthur... I consider the knightly orders of Mystara to either be throwbacks (Karameikan knights) who have now been "modernised", or knightly orders like the Heldannics (Teutonics?). Well...perhaps you know this but...King Arthur was a Celtic chieftain. Perhaps Christian perhaps not. Given the time and the location, probably not. But that much is unknown. As for chivalry and plate armor, King Arthur and his "knights" did not use either. The knight was a medieval baron as I recall. Someone who could afford his horse and armor... >I think the role of knights was to roam the land, and basically act as mercs - supposedly fighting for the right, thanks to chivalry. In times of war these experienced veterans led the peasants. I don't think so. Knights and chivalric deeds were largely an invention of Thomas Mallory. What year was he in prison? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 09:13:08 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] The Role of Knights In a message dated 98-05-04 07:43:33 EDT, Rob writes in response to someone: << disappeared because of the >introduction of Gunpowder? Prior to that the Knights were virtually Invulnerable. (In spite of the dangerous crossbows since they were banned by the pope) Besides, there seems to be a lot of knights around. Does Thyatis have them? or not? Does it have any use for them? Partyly due to gunpowder - but they were really on the decline even before that. The Battle of Agincourt was a fight between an English peasant army and French Knights. The English still won, thanks to the longbow. The English persisted in using longbows rather than guns well into the 15th century, but the knight still declined anyway.>> Not only due to their armours become obsolete. The social clime had begun to change. The knights grew in power under a fuedal system that had the peasants seeking protection from their lords. Essentially you had an agriculturally based populace owing fealty to the militeristic lords. This protection centered on bandits and other lords. As the craftsmen and trade guilds evolved and took a more prominent role, that balance of serf/military lost its validification. Essentially the trade guilds broke the mold. Agincourt was the beginning of the for the knightly order. Not only did it prove that knights were not supermen, it also brought the nobility down a notch within the peasants' eyes. Nobles ruled by devine right. Obviously that right was not so devine since so many perished at the hands of the peasantry. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 06:57:28 PDT From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Magic Items Ya lpour et lcontre : 2 sides >>how some of the NPCs have, but i do think the magical items in Mystara are >>pretty plentiful when comparing it to other worlds.... >I have looked at Jaggar. He has a ring of protection plus 1... >I think I may have been corrupted by my friends Planescape campaign (which I do enjoy, incidentally). That involves going into Sigil and buying >+5 swords which have been psionically tempered made from Avernus Greensteel... >I just dont see Mystara as that powered. Where is the Mystaran cowl of >warding? There is no way that a 24th level wizard anywhere but Krynn or >Mystara is going to have a mere ring of protection +1. >I think that this is good, personally. I prefer a low magic item campaign. I dole out special skills and abilities instead (like the Glantrian Circles). I consider them to be far cooler (I absolutely hate >characters defined by their equipment lists, which is what generally happens >at high level in my experience) and more logical, with respect to simple >economics. >I often run and play in high level campaigns (around 15th level, AD+D). >To my knowledge, in the entire Gaming History of My Life, these worthy PCs >(a high proportion of which were mages and priests) made less than a dozen >items, if that. But they must have picked up literally hundreds along the >way - every 15th level character generally has at least 10 items. Where do >they all come from? And don't give me the "ahh, they have all been left >over from ancient Nithia" thing. If this is so then all the listed NPCs >would have a truly vast arsenal to choose from. >Thincol may have a +2 sword for reasons other than power (incidentally >Thincol is called "the Brave" because he personally leads his army in battle - which means that he probably is going to want to get his hands on >all the juicy equipment he can). But why not also a +5 ring, +5 cloak, etc. >etc. If he can get his hands on this stuff, he would be an absoloute idiot >not to do so. (As Garibaldi said in Babylon 5, I don't like guns, but if >every else has got guns I want to make damn sure I have the biggest gun of >all...) >The problem with magic items are that PCs will always have more than the >NPCs, because as they adventure they take them off the bad guys. I consider >on Mystara that very few items are just "lying around" - I reckon that most >of Jaggars gear, for example, was either made by himself personally or left >to him by his family. >Cheerz >ROB >(BTW - i am pretty fanatical on this subject... I'm interested as to >other peoples views, but don't expect a conversion! I have seen nothing >good ever come out of high magic item campaigns. >Besides, I'm stubborn, being a Taurus...) Hi all ... I've a different point of view for you ... As was young, were in my group 2 different guys : old players ( which i didn't belong ) and the others ... The first ones have so many magic items that a 'detect magic' could blind even a Phenix. We've never been able to get enough to quiet any of their PC ... I think the fact they'd played D&D and AD&D modules (although we don't) help them in this way. Don't you think there're too magic items in any of TSR module ? Some of my friend say indeed that TSR mean 'trésors sur Règle' (treasure about rule). But the fact that damned magic item are rare make me think that it'll be impossible to prevent adventurers to get many ... Even my preferred mage look for scrolls and potions ... This is a NP-complete problem ( for those who understand it )... Marcus ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 07:13:10 PDT From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Magic Items Ya lpour et lcontre : 2 sides >>how some of the NPCs have, but i do think the magical items in Mystara are >>pretty plentiful when comparing it to other worlds.... >I have looked at Jaggar. He has a ring of protection plus 1... >I think I may have been corrupted by my friends Planescape campaign (which I do enjoy, incidentally). That involves going into Sigil and buying >+5 swords which have been psionically tempered made from Avernus Greensteel... >I just dont see Mystara as that powered. Where is the Mystaran cowl of >warding? There is no way that a 24th level wizard anywhere but Krynn or >Mystara is going to have a mere ring of protection +1. >I think that this is good, personally. I prefer a low magic item campaign. I dole out special skills and abilities instead (like the Glantrian Circles). I consider them to be far cooler (I absolutely hate >characters defined by their equipment lists, which is what generally happens >at high level in my experience) and more logical, with respect to simple >economics. >I often run and play in high level campaigns (around 15th level, AD+D). >To my knowledge, in the entire Gaming History of My Life, these worthy PCs >(a high proportion of which were mages and priests) made less than a dozen >items, if that. But they must have picked up literally hundreds along the >way - every 15th level character generally has at least 10 items. Where do >they all come from? And don't give me the "ahh, they have all been left >over from ancient Nithia" thing. If this is so then all the listed NPCs >would have a truly vast arsenal to choose from. >Thincol may have a +2 sword for reasons other than power (incidentally >Thincol is called "the Brave" because he personally leads his army in battle - which means that he probably is going to want to get his hands on >all the juicy equipment he can). But why not also a +5 ring, +5 cloak, etc. >etc. If he can get his hands on this stuff, he would be an absoloute idiot >not to do so. (As Garibaldi said in Babylon 5, I don't like guns, but if >every else has got guns I want to make damn sure I have the biggest gun of >all...) >The problem with magic items are that PCs will always have more than the >NPCs, because as they adventure they take them off the bad guys. I consider >on Mystara that very few items are just "lying around" - I reckon that most >of Jaggars gear, for example, was either made by himself personally or left >to him by his family. >Cheerz >ROB >(BTW - i am pretty fanatical on this subject... I'm interested as to >other peoples views, but don't expect a conversion! I have seen nothing >good ever come out of high magic item campaigns. >Besides, I'm stubborn, being a Taurus...) Hi all ... I've a different point of view for you ... As was young, were in my group 2 different guys : old players ( which i didn't belong ) and the others ... The first ones have so many magic items that a 'detect magic' could blind even a Phenix. We've never been able to get enough to quiet any of their PC ... I think the fact they'd played D&D and AD&D modules (although we don't) help them in this way. Don't you think there're too magic items in any of TSR module ? Some of my friend say indeed that TSR mean 'trésors sur Règle' (treasure about rule). But the fact that damned magic item are rare make me think that it'll be impossible to prevent adventurers to get many ... Even my preferred mage look for scrolls and potions ... This is a NP-complete problem ( for those who understand it )... Marcus ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #270 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 14:06:35 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #271 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Monday, May 4 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 271 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] The Role of Knights Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Items - I Hate 'Em! Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Items - I Hate 'Em! Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] The Role of Knights Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Feudalism Re: [MYSTARA] - Re:The Role of Knights Re: [MYSTARA] - Re:The Role of Knights Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] The Role of Knights Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] The Role of Knights Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian knowledge of Clerics Re: [MYSTARA] - Spell Applications Re: [MYSTARA] - The Ruling Class [MYSTARA] - Chronomancy Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian knowledge of Clerics Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth (was: WWII) Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Items - I Hate 'Em! Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 16:25:02 +0000 From: wizzard@mail.intcom.de Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] The Role of Knights Hi folks, regarding: >As for chivalry and plate armor, King Arthur and his "knights" did not use either. The knight was a medieval baron as I recall. Someone who could afford his horse and armor... A knight was NO baron. A knight was called by a reigning noble by "appointing him" knight as a title of honor (or deeds). Furthermore the knigt had to swear fealty to his appointing lord! Think of the Knights Templars. In their battles against the Moors their squires jumped in if their masters died and tried to take a stand for as reward they could be appointed to knights to gain the right to fight on horseback and so on. Furthermore their "travelling around" was not by wanting to to it but of mere need. There travelling mercs often had been 2nd, 3rd born sons who had no chance to get the lands their fathers "owned" (some lands were granted to the family --> heritage // some only to the person and fell back to the "giving lord" upon death) --> The Church always did it this way --> Also this is a cause they didnŽt had to have "legal" sons!! So they had to travel and sell their swords to survive or to gain a fief for themselves. regarding: >I don't think so. Knights and chivalric deeds were largely an invention of Thomas Mallory. What year was he in prison? Chivalric deeds might be. Knights were an institution, not a creation of a single poet!! Think of King Arthur. Rumour has it that it was a story to gain support for the Catholic Church during a time of trouble. --> There was an important conclave-meeting ahead. and exactly in this time the remains of King Arthur and his bride were found!! Think it over. A "english" story told in the "french" court. Widespread by a "german" travelling poet. Til them, Wizzard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 16:28:22 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Items - I Hate 'Em! Hi Robert! And other Mystarans. Its an interesting topic. IŽve found myself torn between the fact that (1.) When magical items become common (anything less than unique, actually) they become boring. and (2.) Mystara is supposed to be a world filled with magic. (I think it should, anyway) I dont have a good sollution to this problem though. Glantri for example seems to be full of trivila magical items like perfume, coins, gondolas etc, so It would be reasonable to assume that there would be more useful Items there aswell. Magic is on the other hand, quite rare in Karameikos, so this will vary ofcourse. I think one sollution is to say that people never know the exact pluss on magical items. Some people will use their +4 item rather than a +5 one because they like the first one better. Ofcourse mages will know which has the most magical strenght in them. What Im trying to do in my campaign is to remove all +1 items and useless potions and stuff like that. All items are rare and powerful. And they are accompanied by a long description and history which make them unique. When it comes to thicol. Isnt he known for having an increadibly lazy mage? Hadet, Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 08:47:37 -0600 (MDT) From: John Hare Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Items - I Hate 'Em! On Mon, 4 May 1998 wizzard@mail.intcom.de wrote: >Well, IŽm into the same thing but remember that it is also up to the PC. If they WANT magic items you have to give them. It is like a reward for being an adventurer. >Therefore I try to give them "items of use" and useable ones which means using them means using them up! >Think of potions and that stuff. So I try to do every item that way. And remember, magic items arenŽt indestructible - normally!! Last time a PC lost all his magic items after falling for about 50-100 feet. >--> BUT: I warned him several times that NOT using them when they seem fit is like not wanting them. --> I donŽt like gatherers. Oh, you would hate our party. We would hoard as much magic as we could. Always upgrading to the better stuff, but stashing our old stuff away for the rainy day that would most assuredly come. Our DM wouldn't always throw juicy stuff at us but some we would sell and then hire mages or try ourselves to make us the better stuff. One of the best adventures eventually had one of the players apprentice save the rest of the party because he had be given about 3 or 4 different wands and a potion of flying. Not much a normal 3rd lvl mage can do when his spells run out other than turn to a wand or scroll. And we were glad we had given him those wands. But normally why use a wand when you can cast the same spell and do more damage. >concerning: >>Thincol may have a +2 sword for reasons other than power (incidentally Thincol is called "the Brave" because he personally leads his army in battle - which means that he probably is going to want to get his hands on all the juicy equipment he can). But why not also a +5 ring, +5 cloak, etc. etc. If he can get his hands on this stuff, he would be an absoloute idiot not to do so. (As Garibaldi said in Babylon 5, I don't like guns, but if every else has got guns I want to make damn sure I have the biggest gun of all...) Sure every one would like the biggest gun, but the cost is quite a bit. Consider that he could use the value of that +5 gizmo and pay for an addition to a keep, buy grain to plant. As a ruler they have guards to do most of the fighting and perhaps it has sentimental value to him. Or perhaps it is an intelligent weapon with extras that you may not get in a better weapon. Consider a +2 weapon w/ Det.Evil to a +5 weapon with no abilities. I know which one I would want as a ruler. "Duke of Earl what are you plotting this time to radiate evil,... hmmm?" "If death is inevitable, you might as well lie back and enjoy it." -Solomon Short _A Season for Slaughter_ John Hare *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 10:46:20 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] The Role of Knights At 04:25 PM 5/4/98 +0000, you wrote: >Hi folks, >regarding: >>As for chivalry and plate armor, King Arthur and his "knights" did not use either. The knight was a medieval baron as I recall. Someone who could afford his horse and armor... >A knight was NO baron. A knight was called by a reigning noble by "appointing him" knight as a title of honor (or deeds). Furthermore the knigt had to swear fealty to his appointing lord! By "baron" I am simply referring to the fact that most Knights did own land. Part of their duties was to help the king govern the kingdom. Sometimes this was a military duty, and sometimes it was a "oversee the peasants" duty. >Think of the Knights Templars. In their battles against the Moors their squires jumped in if their masters died and tried to take a stand for as reward they could be appointed to knights to gain the right to fight on horseback and so on. That is not all they would gain... >Furthermore their "travelling around" was not by wanting to to it but of mere need. >There travelling mercs often had been 2nd, 3rd born sons who had no chance to get the lands their fathers "owned" (some lands were granted to the family --> heritage // some only to the person and fell back to the "giving lord" upon death) --> The Church always did it this way --> Also this is a cause they didnŽt had to have "legal" sons!! There were many "knights bachelor" as they were called, who did not own an estate. "Traveler" though is far different from "mercenary". I am not sure what point you are making about the Church and legal sons. Laws had to be made regarding inheritances or nasty feuds would result. Odd isn't it? Seems the common man bleeds more in these feuds between landowners... >So they had to travel and sell their swords to survive or to gain a fief for themselves. I am unaware of them being "sellswords". >regarding: >>I don't think so. Knights and chivalric deeds were largely an invention of Thomas Mallory. What year was he in prison? >Chivalric deeds might be. Knights were an institution, not a creation of a single poet!! Let me phrase it better: Knights and the chivalric code were real during the Middle Ages, but often when we think of the "Chivalric Knight" what we are really picturing is the fantasy drummed up by Thomas Mallory. Is that any better? >Think of King Arthur. Rumour has it that it was a story to gain support for the Catholic Church during a time of trouble. --> There was an important conclave-meeting ahead. and exactly in this time the remains of King Arthur and his bride were found!! I don't believe so. The "chivalric King Arthur" that we all know and love is largely a reinterpretation by Thomas Mallory. Of course, historical and mythical King Arthur existed long before Mallory, but we know pretty well when certain elements came in. The Catholic Church did not make up King Arthur. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 09:09:06 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) Inconu wrote: >I strongly disagree here. In the module there is a point system used by the DM to determine the outcome of the adventure. The DM shouldn't favor one way or the other. If he would...then what's the point of running the module? You have to allow the players to earn the points as described in the adventure. There are three choices and none are predetermined if it is run correctly by the DM. Well what I was trying to get across is that I know that the module does allow players to determine the outcome but since Entienne is most likely to regain immortality later, this adventure really has no real impact. I don't know of anyone that believes that Entienne hasn't regain immortality (except it's my preference as I think he makes a better wizard than Immortal) even though not everyone ran the adventure. If Mystara returns to the shelves, I believe Rad will be an Immortal. To me this is another type of those adventures that the players must succeed or the world is destroyed. Now, unless you plan on ending a campaign, the conclusion is going to be that they succeeded. This is going to be the case no matter how well the players do so the adventure is pointless really. I like Mark of Amber and if it was dealing with a lesser known Immortal, it would be fine. But its Rad its dealing with. I don't expect him to remain mortal in canon. It gives a problem to a DM that wants to follow canon but is dependent on the players to do all the right things. My whole point of this was what someone said earlier about modules in Mystara have more determined by the players than FR does but to me, this module presents an illusion that that is true. If this module dealt with the destruction of Glantri I think more would understand what I'm trying to get across here is that players are not the only determination of how a world evolves. In fact, they are the last element that determines this as they can only do what a DM allows even if the DM only controls this by withholding information that will keep things going as he likes. This is one reason I've set all my campaigns in Mystara in 1014 AC. There is nothing written or coming out beyond this point in time so players can have a much greater impact on the setting itself than if I set it in 1000 AC and follow canon. I would follow canon for two reasons. One is that I'm comfortable with the evolution of things and second, it makes my job easier as a DM to know what the future holds when setting up an adventure. Just my feelings on this. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 09:20:54 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Feudalism Robert Fry wrote: >The serfs didnt consider themselves to be slaves. Serfs had a responsibility in the feudal system of minding the land (so you are right about that). They effectively belonged to the lord, because they were beneath him in the feudal hierarchy. But serfs were content, because they were still a part of that hierarchy - they had their duties, the same as the even the King, in principle. Just a minor point here. My understanding of feudalism is that serfs DIDN'T belong to the lord (that would make them slaves) but belong to the land. The land could change hands and when it did, the serfs gained a new lord. >In principle the feudal barons duty was to look after his serfs and keep them happy. In that respect serfs were not slaves - they were a valued part of society. A baron killing one of his serfs has breached one of the principles of feudalism, and would (should?) be punished. Yes. The barons had responsibilities to the serfs in the hierarchy. The contentment and productivity was one of the ways to judge how good a baron was. >Slaves, on the other hand, had no feudal rights at all, and were, put simply, the lowest form of life... No one would give a damn if a slave was killed on a whim. I think in later feudalism, slaves did have a few rights though. They were below a serf, which was pretty low but killing one was still a crime. This is one reason slavery died out in the area of feudalism as they belong to the lord and thus, were a drain on his resources. Serfs belonging to the land, could tend to themselves where as slaves were dependent on the lord. >Of course, this is the "principles" of feudalism. In actuality the barons did treat the serfs like slaves for the most part - but that does go against the feudal system. Whenever it got too bad the serfs all revolted (the Peasant Revolution in England?) and the barons treated them better - for a while, anyway. This bad treatment was one reason for the system to fail eventually. Had serfs not been treated as slaves, they may have continued happily in the system that provided for them even though they would never 'own' anything as it all belonged to the land. There was a sense that with this system they would never have to worry about their welfare as they provided all except protection. Sickness, death, and over farmed land Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 14:06:35 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #271 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com though added to making the system discarded later as it began to burden the upper class. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 09:23:04 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re:The Role of Knights The Motive wrote: >Thanks, you just proved my point. =) Thyatis (in my opinion at least) has turned into a sort of Byzantine Empire. In 1014 AC, it's more into politickings and such then it is into conquering other nations. It's turned toward that but still has a way to go. At present, there is no real culture for them to be passing on. They still seemed to be stuck without a true vision of themselves that they think should be 'shared' with others. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 09:36:32 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re:The Role of Knights Brunciak wrote: >Now this is my take on Thyatis. I used to see it as a Byzantine-sort-of-Empire. Yet the more I look at it, it seems like a late Roaman Empire just before Constantine with a great deal of fictional culture from those people at TSR who designed the Empire. My personal opinion is that Thyatis is neither Roman or Byzantine-IT'S MYSTARAN! To me it still seems more Roman and has aspects of Rome after the founding of Constantinople as it continues to decay. While it may be Mystaran, it's following a fairly known path of Rome. I see two choices for it. It will continue to decay and fracture as Rome did or it will take on Byzantine aspects and become a source of culture and stability. I used to prefer the decay but Byzantine-like would really be nice and make this an empire to be admired. I think a religious revival is needed for that to happen. They need to cut out a few Immortals that they've absorbed and focus on those that give them a sense of self. At present, Thyatians are conquerors. To make them a people means looking inward and finding the specialness that will make other nations look at them as a mature and developed land and people. It makes little sense why all the surrounding nations have a clear sense of self and the oldest still looks for that outside their borders. They're like an addict always looking for outside relief and ignoring the rot at their core. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 17:08:31 +0000 From: wizzard@mail.intcom.de Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] The Role of Knights Hi folks, Regarding: >The Catholic Church did not make up King Arthur. But we know of the Quest for the Holy Grail and the Knights of the Round Table. Who wrote up history these times? It was the clergy (most of it). And a knight searching for the pure good, being pure, ... Also there was the story about the cloth (clothing??) of Jesus as he was crucified (sorry, know only the german words --> please no misinterpretations) and the story ABOUT King Arthur helped the Catholic Church to testify their beliefs against "religious rebels" ... Not my opinion. I read this in a quite nice research into Knigh Arthurs literal history and when and who reported about him. Wizzard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 11:22:08 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] The Role of Knights At 05:08 PM 5/4/98 +0000, you wrote: >Hi folks, >Regarding: >>The Catholic Church did not make up King Arthur. >But we know of the Quest for the Holy Grail and the Knights of the Round Table. >Who wrote up history these times? It was the clergy (most of it). Not really. Not regarding King Arthur. For some reason, the tale of King Arthur has always struck a chord with people. The earliest reference to him is a ballad by an unknown bard. It is basically a list of the "knights" who were present at the last battle and it ends "...and the world's enigma, Arthur's grave." So basically, there has always been mystery surrounding King Arthur. I am not sure when this fellow wrote (or if he wrote at all!) but for some reason 8th century sticks in my mind. Now, sometime prior to Chaucer (1400s) a man by the name of Geoffrey of Monmouth wrote "History of the King's of Britain". Though several historical kings were listed, we do know that Geoffrey ran fast with the truth. He embellished much of his "historie". Thomas Mallory used Geoffrey as a source... Oral tales of King Arthur were told on regular occassion too. Yes, monks did most of the writing as they were usually the only ones educated enough to write. But for the most part, they copied tales to preserve them. I am unaware of any "propaganda Arthur" tales... >And a knight searching for the pure good, being pure, ... Much of that came from Mallory. Remember, part of his motivation for writing was to show that he was reformed. >Also there was the story about the cloth (clothing??) of Jesus as he was crucified (sorry, know only the german words --> please no misinterpretations) There is a Latin word for it...but I can't think of it offhand. Clothing is fine. and the story ABOUT King Arthur helped the CCatholic Church to testify their beliefs against "religious rebels" ... >Not my opinion. I read this in a quite nice research into Knigh Arthurs literal history and when and who reported about him. Give me a reference if you can. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 18:29:17 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian knowledge of Clerics >Perhaps one of our Russian list members could tell us how the Soviet Union described Christianity. I would be interested to hear and I would find such a comment very educational. Besides, that would likely be a better comparison than the marijuanna one... In the hard-line communist days, it went basically according to Karl Marx: Religion is used by oppressors of the people to keep the workers in line. The priests just collect tithes from the workers while preaching that this is the way it must be. ************ Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 10:51:05 -0500 (CDT) From: Stephen Dolan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spell Applications On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, Robert Fry wrote: >Soon Witches of the Crust (I do like that term) will release a 3rd cuckle...I like that too.... >if they need to - I have seen Magic cards going for £50 each in shops - and that would be supply and demand....and WotC doesn't get that money they still only sell new cards to the retialers...That would be the card shop making all the money on OOP cards.....and what would 50 pounds be in US dollars....cards in a shop i frequent can run as much as 220 to 350 american... Really we can't be too dissapointed with Wotc...without them all of XD&D would be out of print and I don't think any of us wanna see that. Steve *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 12:21:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Ruling Class At 11:29 AM 5/3/98 EDT, you wrote: >Now back to the topic at hand. I would like to make some sort of revised Ruling Class net.book that details what it's like to be of noble blood, how to run and organize fiefdoms, etc. I know all these rules are done in the Rules Cyclopedia, under Dominions & Strongholds (Chapter 12, pg. 134 - 142), but I really do not like their systems much. I would like to refine them and toss in a bit of historical reference. >But I am not sure if TSR has already done this. If they've done it in a general "Complete Handbook to...", then I don't care and I'll make my own. =) But if they've done it using the OD&D system or something, I won't. So, could someone tell me if TSR has *already* made a campaign accessory that expands on the idea of royalty? The best resource would actually be the Princess Ark articles; Bruce (all hail!) Heard wrote a series detailing dominions and the feudal life in Mystara, using a much better historical basis. I think the first issue was #187, and the others are 189, 190, and 191. There may be a few others lying around, but those ones are the core of the concept. I recommend them to anyone who wants to do Mystaran feudalism like I recommend oxygen for those who like to breathe. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 18:39:23 CEST From: "Herve Musseau" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Chronomancy For those who want to netter fit the Chronomancer supplement in Mystara, I remind that TSR released an addendum to it (available on their site). This is thus canon. I also released some time ago now a net-supplement called Mystara and Chronomancy, which is available on my homepage, and further describes the use of chronomancy in our favorite world, including rules specific to Mystara (esp. rules for Immortals). Comments on that work are welcome. _____________________________________________________________ Herve Musseau Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/ Almanac page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/9037/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 12:40:26 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian knowledge of Clerics At 06:29 PM 5/4/98 +0300, you wrote: >>Perhaps one of our Russian list members could tell us how the Soviet Union described Christianity. >In the hard-line communist days, it went basically according to Karl Marx: Religion is used by oppressors of the people to keep the workers in line. The priests just collect tithes from the workers while preaching that this is the way it must be. Thanks Aleksei! I think while Glantri would certainly not be as bad as the old Soviet Union, they would use propaganda to demonize clerics. This would extend to education even in the Great School of Magic. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 13:25:03 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth (was: WWII) On Mon, 4 May 1998, DM wrote: >Well, yes and no.. PWAs hint at many possibilities, and i believe the most consistent it's that Gareth is Benekander. Personally, i don't like this idea, but so far is the most "canonic" reference. Umm.. Gareth == Benekander? Hmm.. That could be interesting, but Benekander is an initiate, he is probably the least powerful immortal right now. Gareth's creed is to stop immortal interference? Woah. I figure that Gareth may be someone a *bit* more powerful :) Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 13:33:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Items - I Hate 'Em! At 02:11 PM 5/4/98 +0000, you wrote: >Yes and No. On the other hand think of this person as self-confident. He simpy doesnŽt need all this magic items. Perhaps he lives by a code of honor, he doesnŽt need gadgets because "a real man (wizard, ...) doesnŽt need ...", or because using this items would mean that the problem is no longer a challenge anymore and sincerely knowiung there is no danger makes being an adventurer obsolete. Here's a thought; Raistlin Majere, with the exceptions of the Staff of Magius (a gift in return for his ordeal in the Test) and the Dragon Orb (which only he had the power to control), had no magic items. In the Legends trilogy, he also mentions how he doesn't have a familiar, because he doesn't want to be made vulnerable by depending on something other than himself. As for Mystaran magic items, there are simply too many lying around; someone asked 'where do all these items come from?' The easy answer is Alphatia, but even so that's hard to fathom; how do the Alphatians lose or give away THAT MANY? I'm tempted to do a count of the Mystaran adventures and such to see how many magic items are lying around awiting for intrepid adventurers to snag? However, I don't need to do that to know that there are several hundred, maybe even a thousand. Now that's a lot of magic items. Even the B-series are loaded with magic. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 19:56:21 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File At 18.12 03/05/98 -0400, Daly wrote: >At 07:08 PM 5/3/98 +0200, I wrote: >>Wouldn't it be more practical to move the message board discussion here? I mean, e-mail messages are easier (and cheaper and faster) to read and reply than message board ones. >>Just my opinion. >Well, no. It's a pity. You know, not everyone can spend an hour or so on-line reading the TSR message board, while many more people can download their mail and read it off-line in their spare time. >Besides, the idea is to have a strong presence on the boards. We already swamp all other settings! I know what's the idea, I just hope this won't bring the MML to death... - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #271 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 17:42:28 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #272 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Monday, May 4 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 272 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Re: [MYSTARA] - Spell Applications Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Items - I Hate 'Em! Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth (was: WWII) Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Re: [MYSTARA] - Take a Chill Pill Re: [MYSTARA] - Take a Chill Pill Re: [MYSTARA] - Chronomancy [MYSTARA] - King Arthur and the Grail Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - info on pc with martal arts class PLEASE Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's plan to reprint the best modules Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Galactic Fed? Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Serfs (was: The Role of Knights) Re: [MYSTARA] - Take a Chill Pill Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Illithids (was Psionics in Mystara) Re: [MYSTARA] - King Arthur and the Grail Re: [MYSTARA] - WWII Re: [MYSTARA] - Galactic Fed? Re: [MYSTARA] - Galactic Fed? Re: [MYSTARA] - RE: WWII Re: [MYSTARA] - Ahem...Glantri, Ethengar, and others... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 19:52:29 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) At 07.09 04/05/98 EDT, Inconu wrote: >I strongly disagree here. In the module there is a point system used by the DM >to determine the outcome of the adventure. The DM shouldn't favor one way or the other. If he would...then what's the point of running the module? You have >to allow the players to earn the points as described in the adventure. There are three choices and none are predetermined if it is run correctly by the DM. What me and Galwylin were trying to say is that, even if you allow the players to earn the points as described in the module, at the end you can trash everything and use your favourite outcome and your players would have no way of knowing you cheated... unless you allow them to read Mark of Amber, of course. What's the point of running the module then? Have fun, as always when role-playing. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 14:34:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Fabrizio Paoli pontificated: >What me and Galwylin were trying to say is that, even if you allow the players to earn the points as described in the module, at the end you can trash everything and use your favourite outcome and your players would have no way of knowing you cheated... unless you allow them to read Mark of Amber, of course. >What's the point of running the module then? Have fun, as always when role-playing. Well, even if the DM has already predetermined the result of the module. How the party went through the adventure can still have many lasting effects, such as Etienne attitude towards them, how the rest of the family and Glantri think of them, etc. - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 13:40:03 -0500 (CDT) From: Stephen Dolan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spell Applications On Mon, 4 May 1998, Stephen Dolan wrote: Ok i'm reading what i wrote here and I must have just woke up or something.....Hello spelling?????? anyway I hope you got what i was saying even with all the errors.... steve >On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, Robert Fry wrote: >>Soon Witches of the Crust (I do like that term) will release a 3rd >cuckle...I like that too.... >>if they need to - I have seen Magic cards going for £50 each in shops - and >that would be supply and demand....and WotC doesn't get that money they still only sell new cards to the retialers...That would be the card shop making all the money on OOP cards.....and what would 50 pounds be in US dollars....cards in a shop i frequent can run as much as 220 to 350 american... >Really we can't be too dissapointed with Wotc...without them all of XD&D would be out of print and I don't think any of us wanna see that. >Steve >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 14:56:19 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Items - I Hate 'Em! At 01:33 PM 5/4/98 -0400, you wrote: >At 02:11 PM 5/4/98 +0000, you wrote: I'm tempted to do a count of the Mystaran adventures and such to ssee how many magic items are lying around awiting for intrepid adventurers to snag? However, I don't need to do that to know that there are several hundred, maybe even a thousand. Now that's a lot of magic items. Even the B-series are loaded with magic. You know, it might be quite interesting to take a reasonable "career" of modules and divide the number of mis by the number of characters. Then subtract a reasonable amount of the charged or 1 use items to account for use in later modules. Then do that for other settings. See how they compare. It wouldn't be a scientific study, but it sould be...interesting. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 14:18:58 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth (was: WWII) SteelAngel wrote: >Umm.. Gareth == Benekander? Hmm.. That could be interesting, but Benekander is an initiate, he is probably the least powerful immortal right now. Gareth's creed is to stop immortal interference? Woah. I figure that Gareth may be someone a *bit* more powerful :) Or a beginner that doesn't realize what he's up against? ;> - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 14:24:45 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File Fabrizio Paoli wrote: >I know what's the idea, I just hope this won't bring the MML to death... It won't be the death of MML. Some have come back after the great and terrible war of Ethengar and Glantri that threatened to engulf the Known World (me, for example). Some did feel that the thread stampeded over others though (me again). And a few newcomers joined that recieved a rather 'cool' welcome (at least me.. er, I thought so). These things made the message boards very attractive (to me). ;) - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 14:27:06 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Shin Chyang Yu wrote: >Well, even if the DM has already predetermined the result of the module. How the party went through the adventure can still have many lasting effects, such as Etienne attitude towards them, how the rest of the family and Glantri think of them, etc. That's a given. For my part, this thread was just to show that nothing is black and white. Oops, gotta run. I think this thread has done its job ;) - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 12:28:39 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Take a Chill Pill >I never stated that Ethengar is the most powerful army Mystara. You might even remember that I've worried about the small numbers. But as there are so many Glantri lovers who boasted about the military and so on strength of Glantri, at least one list member has to take the position of the defender of the Ethengars. I took this part! if you have a beef with the Glantri-lovers then by all means defend the Khan childrens. I don't Like Glantri, my campaign have never set foot in that nations in the last decade, that i have been DMing. I think that the country, is full of bigots, like the Flaem. They take on an air of superiority, and arrogance which i don't like. plus, they are prejudice toward the other Character Classes. >IMO some list members see the Ethengar as a primitive and not very civilized people. This is not true and I'm fighting for this opinion. what primitive to some, is advanced to another. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 12:30:21 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Take a Chill Pill >I never stated that Ethengar is the most powerful army Mystara. You might even remember that I've worried about the small numbers. But as there are so many Glantri lovers who boasted about the military and so on strength of Glantri, at least one list member has to take the position of the defender of the Ethengars. I took this part! if you have a beef with the Glantri-lovers then by all means defend the Khan childrens. I don't Like Glantri, my campaign have never set foot in that nations in the last decade, that i have been DMing. I think that the country, is full of bigots, like the Flaem. They take on an air of superiority, and arrogance which i don't like. plus, they are prejudice toward the other Character Classes. >IMO some list members see the Ethengar as a primitive and not very civilized people. This is not true and I'm fighting for this opinion. what primitive to some, is advanced to another. Just that some of the list members wish to put this on the backburner for maybe up to a month, so that arguement can begin over subjects that they overlooked. that's all that we are trying to say. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 14:30:24 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Chronomancy Herve Musseau wrote: >For those who want to netter fit the Chronomancer supplement in Mystara, I remind that TSR released an addendum to it (available on their site). This is thus canon. >I also released some time ago now a net-supplement called Mystara and Chronomancy, which is available on my homepage, and further describes the use of chronomancy in our favorite world, including rules specific to Mystara (esp. rules for Immortals). Comments on that work are welcome. I'm going to check both of those out, Herve. Thanks for letting me know. I liked the Chronomancy suppliment but haven't used it nor have plans to at present. These might give me some ideas to think about though. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 21:35:34 +0000 From: wizzard@mail.intcom.de Subject: [MYSTARA] - King Arthur and the Grail Hi Daly, IŽm wondering if anybody else is interested in this else it isnŽt a topic for this list!! The book IŽm talking about is Hubert Lampo and Pieter Paul Koster: Arthur and the Grail. First Latin work (Histotia regum Britanniae of Geoffrey of Monmouth at 1136 AC) >From 1160 on Chretien de Troyes and his books Erec, Cliges, Lancelot, Yvain and Perceval (1182) give us "our view" of that time. This is the first time there is something with "a Grail". Furthermore with Perceval he writes about the Grailscastle and several adventures (stories) Perceval has to go through. Chretien dies while writing his last work and it is finished by an unknown writes of lesser genius. Also about 1200 Robert de Boron writes similar books and brings Joseph of Arimathia into the storyline. To cut a long story short. From now on there is a religious tendency in several background stories dealing with the Knights of the Round Table and the Quest for the Holy Grail. It has connections to the crusades: Gawein sees - at the Castle - the lance that should have been used by Roman soldier Longinus who - legend has it - drove it into JesusŽ side. De Boron uses the Nicodemusevangelism as source --> this is not approved by the Roman Catholic Church these times !!!! Again Joseph of Arimathia who took the body of Jesus off the cross with Pilatus permission. And this Joseph also shall have caught the Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 17:42:28 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #272 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com last drops of JesusŽ blood in what later becomes the Grail. The Evangelism says that they - Joseph and his brother in law Hebron and their family - flee from the ruling class and reach Avalon - - located in England. Up til now no connection between those two things but now both "storys" are in Britannia. More infos ... perhaps next time. Wizzarrd *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 12:43:53 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals >Now what i don't understand is this whole Jaggar is the star dragon thing. >Diamond is the ultimate maifestation of the lawful dragons. His skin is pure diamond, and is nearly impossible to look at. (Thus the "Star >Dragon" epithet) Diamond is the dragon's name, not his "racial type" (as >inplied by the Master rulebook), read WotI. Jaggar can't just become the >star dragon if he is mortal, Unless he actually didn't renounce the title, >became the actual Diamond Dragon, and "Jaggar" is just the Avatar (or maybe mortal form of) Diamond, The Star Dragon. >This ability isn't just "given out" No matter what KoM says. You might have a point on prince Jagger being an avatar of Diamond, what your point on this Bruce? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 12:51:07 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - info on pc with martal arts class PLEASE >does anybody have an example of a player charecter with the class as a martal arts fighter, but instead of the tradeitional sword, he uses >kicks, punches, maybe add some sort of things like in the white wolf game "street fighter" but made for a ad&d game setting & campaine, if so PLEASE let me know, im very new to rpg games & would be very greatfull if some body has a character like this, or just an example on how to create this character, & if its not asking to much how you would run a campaine for this type of player Have you tried the complete ninjas handbook, or the Red Steel Box set, the later happens to have rules on a certain style of martial arts, if you're interested. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 16:00:28 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's plan to reprint the best modules << I know that in D&D it was possible to continue in level as long as the accepted numerical structure held out...How do you challenge a 34th Level Wizard??? Its just something I never really agreed with much, but thats just one persons opinion. >> Only up to level 36! And your question: Careful, very careful.... :-) Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 16:00:31 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals << The preceding summary, I think, is very much analagous to the situation that a 5th circle Dracologist who assumes the form of a dragon ruler would find himself in. >> Do you mean, that a 5th circle dracologist can beat a dragon ruler and become the dragon ruler as described in the master set/RC while the true ruler still exists as an immortal according to WotI? To remind all: The dragon rulers of the RC and of the WotI are similar, but different. It were an interesting theory... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 16:53:31 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Galactic Fed? << I beleive it is like the "Star Trek" Federation, except that it does not exist on Mystara's plane. The Beagle accidentally went through a dimentional rift. >> But according to the shape of the Beagle, it cannot be United Federation of Planets. The Beagle is roughly rectangular, but does not have a disc segment. No Starfleet ship... Jamuga Khan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 16:53:36 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) << But we could break with the "mage mentor" paradigm entirely and go with a cleric of some sort... >> Why not take a thief? :-) Jamuga Khan "Hear an obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 16:53:38 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Serfs (was: The Role of Knights) << I consider many of the farmers in Karameikos to be serfs though their freedom isn't as restrictive. >> You may consider what you want, but GAZ 1 stated that the institution of servship is known in Karameikos, but not used with the exception of the Black Eagle barony. BTW: The whole concept of serfs started when freemen who was obliged to be prepared to defend their country gave this task to rich (and noble) men. The slave-like serfship came very much later. Jamuga Khan "Hear an obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 16:53:48 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Take a Chill Pill << Of course they are! But then, so is everyone who isn't Alphatian... Alistair >> A really USEFUL mail. :-7 Please learn your lessons in history before writing such mails. Jamuga Khan "Hear an obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 16:53:47 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) << I think Terari makes the best choice. Frankly, Claransa makes a better choice than some Glantri wizard. >> I must agree. Besides, Glantrinian wizards are too scheming, reclusive and secret-loving to make good Mystaran mentors. Jamuga Khan "Hear an obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 16:53:34 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Illithids (was Psionics in Mystara) << A more likely location for Illithids would be underground -- so perhaps they dwell in caves underneath that plateau. >> Perhaps in the Illith mountains... Jamuga Khan "Hear an obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 16:58:45 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - King Arthur and the Grail Hey! Thanks alot for the refs! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 14:03:39 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - WWII did you forget about the treaty that Hule was to have with the Heldannic Knight over how they would be able to conquer the region of Southern Brun. The one big mutual goal is to crush Thyatis in the Alliance. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 17:18:45 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Galactic Fed? On Mon, 4 May 1998, JamugaKhan wrote: >But according to the shape of the Beagle, it cannot be United Federation of Planets. The Beagle is roughly rectangular, but does not have a disc segment. No Starfleet ship... Never said it was UFP. Just a "Star Trek" - like Federation :) Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 17:25:21 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Galactic Fed? At 04:53 PM 5/4/98 EDT, you wrote: ><< I beleive it is like the "Star Trek" Federation, except that it does not eexist on Mystara's plane. The Beagle accidentally went through a dimentional rift. >> >But according to the shape of the Beagle, it cannot be United Federation of Planets. The Beagle is roughly rectangular, but does not have a disc segment. No Starfleet ship... His use of the word "like", for you Ethengarian readers, indicates that he is saying the system (governmental, societal) is similar to the Star Trek one. He is not saying that it IS the Star Trek universe. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 14:33:42 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - RE: WWII >Another idea just came to me. The Master and Thysis convince Irendi are >Minorathid (I know I spelled it wrong but I just can't remember the right >way)to join in. They know that with Darokin out of the picture MANY trade >routes will open up and it would be very profitable for either country. The >countries do very little battling but their main job is to transport Thyatian troops to the main port cities of Karamiekos and also to blockade >(another misspelled word?) any supplies coming in from the WDL. Again comments are welcome. Ok, that might be interesting to involve the Minrothad isles because of their merchantile competition with Darokin. In retrospect, about 6 months ago, the MML gave an overwhelming approval to add the Ierendei islands to the WDL, so the WDL happens to have the most powerful navy in the Known World, who also happens to be allied with the Tritons of the kingdom of Smaar, so the minrothad would be having their hands full fighting Ierendei, and the Tritons who would try to sink the ship by cutting holes in the Hull of the Minrothad and Thyatian vessels, making blockades virtually improbable. I take life with a grain of salt, a slice of lemon and a shot of Tequilla. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 14:40:37 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ahem...Glantri, Ethengar, and others... >At 18.38 29/04/98 EDT, Duncan TKD wrote: hhhmmmm. What would happen if for some strange reason the Ethengar teammed up with the Shadow elves against Glantri. >There's just a little problem: Rafiel, patron of Shadow Elves, and Rad, patron of Glantri, are sort of allies, so I don't see why shadowelves should attack Glantri. Moreover I don't think shadowelves have much interest conquering Glantri or helping those stinking horselover nomads from Ethengar (no offense intended Jamuga, I like Ethengar :). They were more interested in retaking their lost homeland(i.e. the lost city of Aengmor) >Corrupted shadowelves faithful to Atzanteotl from Aengmor/Oenkmar may instead side with Ethengar to spread some chaos in the area... and then betray the Ethies to spread some more chaos... That or help Synn spread chaos throughout Glantri, by siding with the Glantri, in her campaign to become an immortal following the path of entrophy. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #272 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, May 4 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 273 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - info on monk class & lupin race Re: [MYSTARA] - WWII Re: [MYSTARA] - WWII Re: [MYSTARA] - MML Cold War (Was: Take a Chill Pill) Re: [MYSTARA] - Chronomancy Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber Re: [MYSTARA] - WWII Re: [MYSTARA] - MML Cold War (Was: Take a Chill Pill) Re: [MYSTARA] - WWII Re: [MYSTARA] - WWII Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber [MYSTARA] - DM styles Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri and their Allies Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber Re: [MYSTARA] - Galactic Fed? [MYSTARA] - Re: Mark of Amber [MYSTARA] - Re: Magic Items - I Hate 'Em! Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mark of Amber Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Magic Items - I Hate 'Em! Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mark of Amber ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 14:52:20 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - info on monk class & lupin race >does anybody have the monk's statistics, like abilities ssaving throws proficiencies, spells, stuff like that, and any kit that >goes with that class, also is it posible to have a player character be a >lupin race from savage coast/red steel, if so please give me an example of one if not both would an Article on Dragon 237 pg. 70 help if you want information on 38 different 'breeds' of lupins, and they have tables to help you in creating a Lupin character. 'Playing football is like making love to a woman, once you score it makes all the trying worthwhile.' -Chef, South park. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 15:09:07 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - WWII on Fri, 1 May 1998 11:58:49 Haavard wrote OOn Thu, 30 Apr 1998, SteelAngel wrote: >>On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, DM wrote: >>=20 >>>(anti-Hule bands who fight in the name of Gareth and under the This may have been asked before, but which Immortal is this? Has it been revealed? >No. It is one of those mysteries.. >It has been discussed before. He may be a new immortal, an old one or an >old Immortal who has been away from the known Multiverse for a long time. >(Possibly Sinbad) First of all, if you read the first incident involving a sindhi's dream of seeing Gareth. When the immortal in Pandius ask as to who Gareth might be...only Loki is the one that's smiling, if that not a hint, then i don't know what is. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 18:32:17 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - WWII On Mon, 4 May 1998, George Valencia wrote: >might be...only Loki is the one that's smiling, if that not a hint, then i don't know what is. Hmm. Loki would be crazy enough to pull a stunt like that. But does it seem reasonable? And where did you get this info from? Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 18:36:17 EDT From: LandoTW Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MML Cold War (Was: Take a Chill Pill) Is it just me or are the posts on this string becoming a bit hostile?? Either outright or between the lines....... How bout those of you....and you know who you are....who are responding and posting to such.....take advice from the title of the post string and...... TAKE A CHILL PILL! Its clear that some will post anything they think will get a rise out of somebody so they can have an arguement. Dont stoop to it. We are all people with differeing opinions. Lets be aware of that when we post and try not to take things personally. Differing opinions are good...they pave the way for debate....but it is possible for things to go a bit too far. Its just a game for pete's sake! Its supposed to be fun...not a "I'm Right, Your Wrong!" grudge match! Sheesh...cant we all just get along. Al - -wishing the Ethengar/Gilantri thing would just go away- (this is MY opinion.....try not to slam me too hard) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 18:42:00 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Chronomancy << Ahh, but who is to say whether the timeline resisting change is not intervention? That way PCs can still meet the Greats (Alexander Glantri), but cannot really influence things. If I was using chronomancy a lot (I'm not) I would set the PCs in the role of the Time Police, or something (Timecop, anyone?), chasing after the Forces of Evil through timeand defeating them at different stages of history. >> I like that idea. Also, if for some reason they failed on a certain mission of importance (saving Alexander Glantri from Chronomancer assassins) you could give em a hell of a culture shock when they got back to the current year. Remeniscent of Planet of the Apes? - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 19:11:27 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber >Well what I was trying to get across is that I know that the module does allow players to determine the outcome but since Entienne is most likely to regain immortality later, this adventure really has no real impact. I don't see how you could say that he is most likely to regain immortality. One of the three outcomes ends in him becoming mortal without the possibility of regaining Immortality, another allows him to stay as Rad once was, and the other which seemed like the most probable outcome would be with Rad becoming mortal, but still be allowed to quest on for Immortality again.....and anyone that knows Barimoor, knows that questing for Immortality isn't a quick and easy job. >I don't know of anyone that believes that Entienne hasn't regain immortality (except it's my preference as I think he makes a better wizard than Immortal) even though not everyone ran the adventure. IMC Ettienne did return to Immortal status, but if either of the other outcomes occured, it wouldn't have made me hate the end result. The players can't succeed in these adventures 100% of the time with 100% accuracy each time. >If Mystara returns to the shelves, I believe Rad will be an Immortal. I think that the module left the possibilities of "Rad returning to mortal status with chance to become immortal" as a huge chunk of the chances for end result (which of course is the PCs acquiring moderate sucess). So, I'd have to disagree with you here. >To me this is another type of those adventures that the players must succeed or the world is destroyed. Now, unless you plan on ending a campaign, the conclusion is going to be that they succeeded. This is going to be the case no matter how well the players do so the adventure is pointless really. If the module is run correctly then there is many chances for the PCs to fail and the campaign to end. Of course it's not something that you plan on, but it's definately a possibility. Also, the whole point of the module is the degree of success the PCs end up with. Low, moderate, and high all have 3 major differences that's going to majorly effect your campaign. >I don't expect him to remain mortal in canon. It gives a problem to a DM that >wants to follow canon but is dependent on the players to do all tthe right things. Well, no DM can keep his campaign completely adjacent to the canon timeline. If the DM is bent on this then you're right, that person has a major problem, but i don't see why someone would write in the ending of the adventure before it was even run. That's the PC's job. >This is one reason I've set all my >campaigns in Mystara in 1014 AC. There is nothing written or coming out beyond this point in time so players can have a much greater impact on the setting itself than if I set it in 1000 AC and follow canon. I see what you're saying here, but what if TSR came out with new products which extended past 1014? Would you then erase what's happend in your campaigns? >I would follow canon for two reasons. One is that I'm comfortable with the evolution of things and second, it makes my job easier as a DM to know what the future holds when setting up an adventure. Just my feelings on this. Okay, I respect your opinion, as i've done the same with many Mystara products. I just believe that if you run a campaign you (as the DM) should allow the PCs to do whatever is in their power to do, and I believe it's the DMs job to adapt it to the canonical sources and fit it in as if it were canon it'self. But then again, that may be why i spend so many Friday nights inside doing DM work instead of going out...... - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 19:20:35 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber >What me and Galwylin were trying to say is that, even if you allow the players to earn the points as described in the module, at the end you can trash everything and use your favourite outcome and your players would have no way of knowing you cheated... unless you allow them to read Mark of Amber, of course. That's ridiculous. If that was the case, then you could do the same for any module/adventure for the PCs. Why (as a DM) would you run the whole adventure knowing previously the outcome of the events regarless to what the PCs did. Isn't that in essence ruining the game for the PCs? I could only see this scenario unfolding in the hands of a newbie DM that doesn't know any better, but in no way should the be the case in any real D&D campaign. >>What's the point of running the module then? HHave fun, as always when role-playing. I don't see how running the module like that could be fun. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 19:36:09 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - WWII At 06:32 PM 5/4/98 -0400, you wrote: >On Mon, 4 May 1998, George Valencia wrote: >>might be...only Loki is the one that's smiling, if that not a hint, then i don't know what is. >Hmm. Loki would be crazy enough to pull a stunt like that. But does it seem reasonable? >And where did you get this info from? Poor Wizard's Almanac. But Loki is a tricky devil. He could be taking the credit. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 19:41:00 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MML Cold War (Was: Take a Chill Pill) At 06:36 PM 5/4/98 EDT, you wrote: >Is it just me or are the posts on this string becoming a bit hostile?? Either >outright or between the lines....... Actually I thought the posts were getting nicer as time went by... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 20:01:51 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - WWII On Mon, 4 May 1998, Daly wrote: >Poor Wizard's Almanac. >But Loki is a tricky devil. He could be taking the credit. Oh jeez. Goes to show how much time I spent reading those completely ;) Which Almanac, BTW, so I can find it. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 20:13:15 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - WWII At 08:01 PM 5/4/98 -0400, you wrote: >On Mon, 4 May 1998, Daly wrote: >>Poor Wizard's Almanac. >>But Loki is a tricky devil. He could be taking the credit. >Oh jeez. Goes to show how much time I spent reading those completely ;) Which Almanac, BTW, so I can find it. I think it was either 2 or 3... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 19:15:27 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber Inconu wrote: >>If Mystara returns to the shelves, I believe Rad will be an Immortal. >I think that the module left the possibilities of "Rad returning to mortal status with chance to become immortal" as a huge chunk of the chances for end result (which of course is the PCs acquiring moderate sucess). So, I'd have to disagree with you here. Well, I fully expect any new Mystara product to list Rad as one of the Immortals. It's just one of those things that I expect when there is a module that affects the nature of things. Rad has been immortal since Gazatteer 3 and I'd be surprised to see that changed suddenly. >Well, no DM can keep his campaign completely adjacent to the canon timeline. If the DM is bent on this then you're right, that person has a major problem, but i don't see why someone would write in the ending of the adventure before it was even run. That's the PC's job. Well, I don't know any DM that would allow themselves to be surprised. The best way not to be surprised is to figure out the likely outcome. Find the spots the players might take a misstep, figure out how to correct it and viola! You've just player proofed your adventure. >I see what you're saying here, but what if TSR came out with new products which extended past 1014? Would you then erase what's happend in your campaigns? No reason to. If Mystara returns, I doubt it will be set in 1014 AC. No revisional campaign set they've ever released followed on the heels of the previous one. They'll leave enough time for me to incorporate changes as needed. >Okay, I respect your opinion, as i've done the same with many Mystara products. I just believe that if you run a campaign you (as the DM) should allow the PCs to do whatever is in their power to do, and I believe it's the DMs job to adapt it to the canonical sources and fit it in as if it were canon it'self. But then again, that may be why i spend so many Friday nights inside doing DM work instead of going out...... Allowing them to do what's in their power to do is fine. Question is what level is that? I wouldn't let 6th level characters determine the path the world takes and that's what Mark of Amber does to a small degree. 15th to 20th would be more suited to such world implications. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 19:24:34 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber Inconu wrote: >That's ridiculous. If that was the case, then you could do the same for any module/adventure for the PCs. Why (as a DM) would you run the whole adventure knowing previously the outcome of the events regarless to what the PCs did. Isn't that in essence ruining the game for the PCs? I could only see this scenario unfolding in the hands of a newbie DM that doesn't know any better, but in no way should the be the case in any real D&D campaign. Whoa! Hold on there! Many of the problems DMs have is not reeling in the players when they should. I believe that's what munchkin refers Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 23:49:28 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #273 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com too. Just exactly how does this ruin the ending? Players shouldn't know what the 'ending' is to know that its been ruined. The point is that the DM does usually know the ending of the adventure. Especially if they write it. What you seem to be talking about is some kind of free form stuff that neither the players or DM knows what comes next. Only problem is... who's running such a creature? The DM can't be as he's as clueless as the players about what happens next. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 20:39:07 -0400 From: Daly Subject: [MYSTARA] - DM styles >>That's ridiculous. If that was the case, then you could do the same for any module/adventure for the PCs. Why (as a DM) would you run the whole adventure >>knowing previously the outcome of the events regarless to what the PCs did. Isn't that in essence ruining the game for the PCs? >>Some of the more incendiary comments snipped<< I have an idea. For those who really are concerned about this topic, let's have a discussion of differing DM styles. Those who fall on either side of the "debate" can present their reasoning for either open ended adventures or for the more DM directed adventures. My personal opinion is that we likely all fall somewhere in the middle. "Only a newbie DM" would not have any idea what his players are going to choose. But every experienced DM knows that he is often wrong about what his players end up choosing! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 22:20:32 EDT From: Duncan TKD Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri and their Allies Ah....very true...the shadow elves wouldn't ally with Ethengar, but they might take advantage of the situation to grab some magical power, and who knows perhaps the neucleas of speres from Galantri while she is preoccupied. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 22:29:49 EDT From: CRlPTONITE Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber << The point is that the DM does usually know the ending of the adventure. Especially if they write it. The DM can't be as he's as clueless as the players about what happens next. >> Maybe that's how it is in your adventures. But in a good adventure the DM can't know the outcome. What you are doing is writing a story and letting the players act out a part in it. That's called roll-playing. Role-playing is more like one of those "choose-your-own-adventure" books. It starts in one place but it could end up going anywhere. D&D is all about role-playing. That's what makes it fun in the first place. - --- -- --Criptonite *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 22:38:49 EDT From: Duncan TKD Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Galactic Fed? In a message dated 98-05-04 17:07:55 EDT, Jamuga Khan wrote << But according to the shape of the Beagle, it cannot be United Federation of Planets. The Beagle is roughly rectangular, but does not have a disc segment. No Starfleet ship... >> The Defiant is a United federation of Planets starship and it does not have a disc segment. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: 04 May 1998 21:52:24 -0500 From: Alan Shutko Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mark of Amber >>>>>"G" == Galwylin writes: G> The point is that the DM does usually know the ending of the G> adventure. Especially if they write it. Then why not just hand the PCs a book? A lot of people (myself included) like to play games where we _don't_ know the endings, merely possible endings, and the players have a chance to affect the world. That's one reason I don't like WotI, in fact, because as written it's very heavy-handed and says "Things go this way. Your players are only along for the ride." As a player, I tend to get quite upset if I don't have a say in how the adventure turns out. When I can _fail_ and things still come out all hunky-dory, I feel cheated, because clearly any group of monkeys could have run through the adventure and done the same thing. Or consider, the Dragonlance adventures. Very sequential, not so much freedom. G> What you seem to be G> talking about is some kind of free form stuff that neither the G> players or DM knows what comes next. Only problem is... who's G> running such a creature? The DM can't be as he's as clueless as G> the players about what happens next. Wrong. That's the _traditional_ adventure. The DM sets up some situations, with contingencies for different things the PCs can do. Then, both the DM and the players see what happens. For example, look at U1-3. All _sorts_ of things can happen there. The party might entirely miss the existence of the smugglers, fail to pick up on the lizard men, slaughter the lizard men completely and miss out on the sahaugin plot. And then, depending on what they do in U3, they might completely save the town or watch the flames. The DM can certainly run this, because they know things like "If the lizard men are slaughtered, they won't join with the party to go to the sahaugin." And while it gives some ideas what to do if the players completely miss the point (because it would suck to fail to run most of a purchased module), the players still have free will. - -- Alan Shutko - By consent of the corrupted Surprise your boss. Get to work on time. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: 04 May 1998 21:35:27 -0500 From: Alan Shutko Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Magic Items - I Hate 'Em! >>>>>"R" == Robert Fry writes: R> I have looked at Jaggar. He has a ring of protection plus 1... I think this argument is caused by a difference in the D&D GAZ's and the AD&D boxed sets. I view Mystara as a very magical world. The BD&D adventures and background support this. We have tons of magic items in low-level modules. We have artifacts and other good toys. We have Trees of Life, Blackflame, and the dwarven relic (which name I cannot remember). But the Gazetteers never outright said anything. Jaggar in GAZ 3 has one magical item listed: a Blackmoorian relic which can cast 20d6 lightning bolts (50 charges left). Most characters have no items at all listed. It is assumed that they will have whatever the DM views as appropriate. The types of items you can get from the sample graduation ordeal seems pretty decently high-magic: elven cloak daggar +2 key allowing save vs. charm at +5 key equiv. to potion of luck 1/day key allowing free knock 1/day shrunken laboratory etc. By the time of DotE, we have more specifics, but it still seems to be those items which a character is carrying on his person at all times. Consider the massive use of potions of longevity, for instance. Or, flying castles and boats. This is not a magic-shy area. When we got to the misshapen AD&D products, it seemed toned down for beginner's sake. Hence Jaggar's little ring of protection. (Personally I think those products were useless, so I'll not even try to defend them.) - -- Alan Shutko - By consent of the corrupted God must love the common man; He made so many of them. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 22:15:14 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber CRlPTONITE wrote: >Maybe that's how it is in your adventures. But in a good adventure the DM can't know the outcome. What you are doing is writing a story and letting the players act out a part in it. That's called roll-playing. Role-playing is more like one of those "choose-your-own-adventure" books. It starts in one place but it could end up going anywhere. D&D is all about role-playing. That's what makes it fun in the first place. Well, I think I've decided to be offended with these newbie and now a roll-playing DM comments. First, not many of you have played in any of my games. Second, if you had then you'd know that I do a style of storytelling but not all the stories get told because the players skip over the clues that lead to these stories or let a character die that I had chosen to feature in this one. When designing an adventure I look at the parts than I think players may not go toward the goal I've set before them and try to make sure there's something for them to find on this tangent. If the story line they were on to start with really has caught my attention then this tangent may be a just another way toward the original. Sometimes its leads to something different. I've many plots that have never been explored by players because they just don't go the right direction. Third, this adventure has three outcomes but all are only possible if the players go to the end. How is this different from my method? I can lead them by the nose all through this module but putting my own desires in for the outcome should be off limits? Four, to my mind players and DM have a symbiotic relationship. It's not completely under their control and not completely under mine. Just somewhere in the middle with lots of switching back and forth at times. So, thanks for the pop psychology evaluation of my style. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 23:22:56 EDT From: GIZARS Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mark of Amber I absolutley agree... Roleplaying is just that "Roleplaying" It's not a board game that tells you when to go up a ladder and when to slide down a slide..... it's meant to be a story "Created by" the dm and players alike, both reacting to the others addition to the story at hand... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 23:39:35 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Magic Items - I Hate 'Em! On 4 May 1998, Alan Shutko wrote: >I view Mystara as a very magical world. The BD&D adventures and This is also evidenced by Bruce's (I think!!) Article called the "Color of Magic". At first I thought it was an expose on my campaign's Chromomancy, but it turned out to be an informative look at the pervasiveness of Magic on Mystara, and how to make your mages still look powerful! There is a link to this article on the MML Hoam Paige, I think. If not, it's on Geoff Gander's page. Somewhere out there on Mystara, in any event. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 22:48:58 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mark of Amber Alan Shutko wrote: >Then why not just hand the PCs a book? At this point I just might! >A lot of people (myself included) like to play games where we _don't_ know the endings, merely possible endings, and the players have a chance to affect the world. That's one reason I don't like WotI, in fact, because as written it's very heavy-handed and says "Things go this way. Your players are only along for the ride." If you hadn't read WotI how would you know what are the possible endings?!?! How does a player know the ending of something they shouldn't?!?! Just tell me that! Using a pre-made adventure *always* has a bit of nose leading simply because there's not enough space to take into account the thousands of decisions of players. It's up to the DM to provide the illusion that players have made a huge impact on the world. >As a player, I tend to get quite upset if I don't have a say in how the adventure turns out. When I can _fail_ and things still come out all hunky-dory, I feel cheated, because clearly any group of monkeys could have run through the adventure and done the same thing. Or consider, the Dragonlance adventures. Very sequential, not so much freedom. Who said make it hunky-dory?? My whole point in this was to not have adventures that affect something so far beyond the players at that level. Namely the Immortals. 6th level adventurers just shouldn't have that kind of impact on a campaign. What are you going to do at 12th? Have a couple of Immortals engage them in a fight because they want one? >For example, look at U1-3. All _sorts_ of things can happen there. The party might entirely miss the existence of the smugglers, fail to pick up on the lizard men, slaughter the lizard men completely and miss out on the sahaugin plot. And then, depending on what they do in U3, they might completely save the town or watch the flames. A town that might never show it's face again. Had it been Greyhawk (I believe these are set in Oerth originally) would you still feel the same? Knowing that everything that follows you will have to scratch out the city and replace it with ruins. Sure players can affect the setting but shouldn't be presented with possibily changing it so radically. No deciding who gets to be immortal, no deciding to let a major city burn, no allowing a whole country be destroyed. When you look at real life, don't you see all the things you can't change but a good sword cut? Why should players have a greater impact on their world than we have on our world? In our world, you climb the social ladder to make impact (Face it. No one on welfare is going to make drastic changes to the world except in very rare cases. And these usually require a social change). In D&D, you climb the experience table. >The DM can certainly run this, because they know things like "If the lizard men are slaughtered, they won't join with the party to go to the sahaugin." And while it gives some ideas what to do if the players completely miss the point (because it would suck to fail to run most of a purchased module), the players still have free will. And how is this different from what I've been saying? The DM is controlling things. The players may have missed out on most of this module but no matter what they do, it's still no big deal to the setting. The only possible benefit of making them save the city is if you plan to use it again. Much easier to scratch the city off and let what happens happen and move the city elsewhere if you really like it. The players make a difference but only to that town. Not the whole continent! And certainly not the pantheon of gods. I'm currently playing in the Temple of Elemental Evil module. I have a vague idea of what awaits my character but I haven't read it yet even though I have a copy just to make sure I'm not disappionted by not picking the right path. The only thing for me to fear is the death of the character. What's in this module is a mystery to me and I intend for it to remain one till it's over. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #273 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, May 5 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 274 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri and their Allies Re: [MYSTARA] - Innovatice Uses for Spells. Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] The Role of Knights Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Items - I Hate 'Em! Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Take a Chill Pill Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - WWII Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] The Role of Knights Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Items - I Hate 'Em! Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian knowledge of Clerics Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Items - I Hate 'Em! Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Items - I Hate 'Em! Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Items - I Hate 'Em! Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Items - a story Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber Re: [MYSTARA] - DM styles Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Items - I Hate 'Em! Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mark of Amber [MYSTARA] - School of Magic Graduation ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 23:52:54 EDT From: BoBo II Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri and their Allies In a message dated 5/4/98 6:41:39 AM, you wrote: << so they need a big army to cover its borders>> The idea of tightly covered borders is pretty new. The best thing about a big army is you smash the enemy if you can bring them to battle. The problem with medieval, and alot of other warfare, is that the enemy comes into your territory, where he wants, moves about attacking garrisons and towns and often captures and holds them (war of conquest) or pillages them (war for money, which is what a lot of 14th century warfare really was) and its up to you to pin him down. BoBoII *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 23:55:28 EDT From: BoBo II Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Innovatice Uses for Spells. In a message dated 5/4/98 6:41:49 AM, RMunch wrote of <>. Pray, do share. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 00:08:29 EDT From: BoBo II Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] The Role of Knights In a message dated 5/4/98 8:06:23 AM, you wrote: <> A Roman term as well, for the rich young swags who could afford horses. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 00:19:05 EDT From: BoBo II Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Items - I Hate 'Em! In a message dated 5/4/98 12:59:16 PM, Bor wrote: << Even the B-series are loaded with magic. Maunty-Haul! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 00:26:32 EDT From: BoBo II Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Take a Chill Pill In a message dated 5/4/98 4:09:50 PM, The Great Khan wrote: < Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - WWII In a message dated 5/4/98 6:49:30 PM, you wrote: < Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] The Role of Knights In a message dated 98-05-04 07:43:09 EDT, you write: >disappeared because of the >introduction of Gunpowder? Prior to that the Knights were virtually Invulnerable. (In spite of the dangerous crossbows since they were banned by the pope) Besides, there seems to be a lot of knights around. Does Thyatis have them? or not? Does it have any use for them? << Partyly due to gunpowder - but they were really on the decline even before that. The Battle of Agincourt was a fight between an English peasant army and French Knights. The English still won, thanks to the longbow.>> Well that is true to a point. But remember that bows and the deadly crossbows (outlawed for non nobles due to its effectiveness) were around for a good while when the Knights started to decline. One of the biggest things that changed the knights supremacy was the changes of tactics of the time. Large phallanx of Pikemen were nearly invulnerable to charging knights. The knights heavy armor (heavy to try and stop those arrows, which it didn't anyway) weighted them down so, when they were unseated by the pikes they were defenseless. Personally, I'd prefer to fight in leather armor for this (and other) reasons. << The English persisted in using longbows rather than guns well into the 15th century, but the knight still declined anyway.>> Well yes they did. Mainly because of the established measure or it. And the skilled people about with it, and even the faster rate of fire of a bow. Its also more reliable. Archers were used in warfare all the way up to WWI. Of course with the advent of the cartridge loading rifle, a bow was suddenly very very obsolete. But that just isn't D&D at all. << Knights belonged in the Dark Ages, back with King Arthur... I consider the knightly orders of Mystara to either be throwbacks (Karameikan knights) who have now been "modernised", or knightly orders like the Heldannics (Teutonics?).>> Hmm. I cannot say, you are using several terms that are unfamiliar to me. << I think the role of knights was to roam the land, and basically act as mercs - supposedly fighting for the right, thanks to chivalry.>> Hmm. That is one of Author's knights. Yes they did roam sometimes (hence the term "Knight Errant") but mostly they enforced the will of their lord, and defended the crown in battle. In peacetime they tended to live off the fat. In my opinion, the knights of D&D tend to be more well trained soldiers than Nobles in armor as knights became later. I usually use something more along the lines of a fighter's guild for this sort thing. Later, when people become higher levels (or do the land's lord a favor) they may have title and then become a "Sir" or "Lady." At that moment they are noble or a knight (depends). << In times of war these experienced veterans led the peasants.>> Well... again sorta. Some (the nobles or lords) led the army. This was usually composed of Knights (those guys on horseback with armor), Footsoldiers (those guys on foot in armor of some sort), Archers (those guys with the bows), and the fighting rabble (those other guys). Peasants were usually the rabble, but if they could shoot then they became archers (much better in a battle). You could usually tell a man's station by his armor or weapons. The leaders about you by station, knights first, then footmen and archers, then... yeah those guys. << IMC the Knights roam the land, slaying dragons and doing other Knightly Deeds for the benefit of the population, and perhaps more importantly spreading the word of the Church of Karameikos throughout the wilds of Karameikos.>> That is likely a holy knight. Certianly a possibility. Don't let the name fool you, these guys can be bad news, just ask the inhabitants of Jereusalem about the time of King Richard. Then again, a knight of the land (or realm) would do much as you describe as well, but possibly without all the word spreading. << In times of war (like now, IMC) the Knights do the recruitment,>> For sure... "Follow me to Glory!" Who could resist? << and also the training, of the troops.>> This was often done by specialists, or sometimes normal soldiers in times of great need. These specialists were often those who were good soldiers but did not have land. A noble would take them into their house to train their children. Much like Gurney Halleck or Duncan Idaho. << And will lead them in battle.>> Yes. But often not the same guys who trained all those young nobles. << And because Karameikos still has a feudal (more or less) system, the Knights have a great deal of the Crowns authority (I think a Knight ranks at least equal to landed lord? I may be wrong on this) as well as the Churches. Troubleshooters, on behalf of the Crown.>> Many knights were land owners and could speak as noblemen. They could and did dispatch authority from the crown, sometimes it was even expressly given. (This was a common way for peasants to hate a king, they were abused by their lord who was comissioned by the king. Even if the king did not know of his cruelty. But many did not care as long as they got their gold.) The church is a special case in history. Often times is surpassed Royal authority, and other times (Henry VIII, Peter the Great) it was second to the will of the king. Troubleshooters works, or you might say enforcers of the crown's will. << IMC I assume that Thyatis has various knightly or pseudo knightly orders (the Order of Vanya?). IMC they have a knightly order based around Valerias called the Rose Knights (I do like Krynn...). Mainly running Red Steel I consider knights to be like the Savage Coast Honorbound - basically glorified adventurers guilds, with a bit of social clout because of their good standing...>> I see you have the guild idea too. Yes the Fighter's guild (remember this is D&D) would have good standing because their skills are known and needed. (As opposed to the mystic arts of the mage, who everyone fear.) But there is a difference between knights and fighters in my games. At low levels it often does not matter, higher up it becomes a goal. << ROB >> Excellent thoughts Rob. Yazin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 02:47:24 EDT From: M76762 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Items - I Hate 'Em! In a message dated 98-05-04 08:56:23 EDT, you write: << The problem with magic items are that PCs will always have more than the NPCs, because as they adventure they take them off the bad guys. I consider on Mystara that very few items are just "lying around" - I reckon that most of Jaggars gear, for example, was either made by himself personally or left to him by his family. Cheerz ROB >> Yes I agree Rob. When you start finding vorpal blades +5 all the time, then you start to loose interest. Give your weapons a name, make em rare, and don't make em vorpal. (I think Excalibur in Dieties and Demigods is only a +5 Sword of Sharpness, though I may be thinking of Perseus's Blade. And this IS Excalibur people!) But you are missing usable magic items from this equasion. - -Magic arrows? - -Potions? - -Scrolls? - -Charged items? All these things are possible to have with balance. Yazin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 09:50:46 +0200 (EET DST) From: Anias Pasi Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian knowledge of Clerics >At 06:29 PM 5/4/98 +0300, you wrote: >>>Perhaps one of our Russian list members could tell us how the Soviet Union described Christianity. >>In the hard-line communist days, it went basically according to Karl Marx: Religion is used by oppressors of the people to keep the workers in line. The priests just collect tithes from the workers while preaching that this is the way it must be. >Thanks Aleksei! I think while Glantri would certainly not be as bad as the old Soviet Union, they would use propaganda to demonize clerics. This would extend to education even in the Great School of Magic. Kind of nice comparison.. Then consider how the russian jews (will the same happen to the elves?) were handled and how many foreing institutes (priestes of the khanates) smugled bibles and stuff to USSR. hmmm... Pasi - -- X Pasi Anias X p.03 - 2533536 X \\|// X X Sammonkatu 28 A 18 X a122286@proffa X (o o) X X 33540 Tampere X .cc.tut.fi X o000--(_)--000o X *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 02:51:06 EDT From: M76762 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Items - I Hate 'Em! In a message dated 98-05-04 09:01:16 EDT, you write: << Well, IŽm into the same thing but remember that it is also up to the PC. If they WANT magic items you have to give them. It is like a reward for being an adventurer. Therefore I try to give them "items of use" and useable ones which means using them means using them up! Think of potions and that stuff. So I try to do every item that way. And remember, magic items arenŽt indestructible - normally!! Last time a PC lost all his magic items after falling for about 50-100 feet. --> BUT: I warned him several times that NOT using them when they seem fit is like not wanting them. --> I donŽt like gatherers. >> Hmmm. Just give em a few good things. It you have gone to far.. hey there is always rust monsters to eat away those magical swords and armors. # appearing 1-4 (at least)... and you can fudge. Yazin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 03:16:03 EDT From: M76762 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Items - I Hate 'Em! In a message dated 98-05-04 13:59:16 EDT, you write: << As for Mystaran magic items, there are simply too many lying around; someone asked 'where do all these items come from?' The easy answer is Alphatia, but even so that's hard to fathom; how do the Alphatians lose or give away THAT MANY? I'm tempted to do a count of the Mystaran adventures and such to see how many magic items are lying around awiting for intrepid adventurers to snag? However, I don't need to do that to know that there are several hundred, maybe even a thousand. Now that's a lot of magic items. Even the B-series are loaded with magic. Glen >> Hmmm. Well ok as DMs its important to gibe the PCs something to look forward to, and yet still give them balance. Lets just look at this idea, here is one possible progression of a PCs quest for a worthy blade. This order is negotiable in parts. - -Sword (normal) - -Sword with Silver Edge - -Fine Quality Sword (+1 to hit OR damage due to exceptional workmanship, not magic) - -Fine Quality Sword With Silvered edge (possibly same sword) - -Exceptional Quality Sword (+1 to hit AND damage due to workmanship, not magic) - -Exceptional Quality Sword with Silvered Edge (again possibly the same sword) - -Sword with continual light cast upon it - -Blessed Sword (can hit magical creatures, blessed by cleric) - -Ancient Sword +1 (bronze blade from pre Iron era, persian style design) - -Sword +1 (Blade is missing tip due to final battle of last owner) - -Sword +1 (Blade is Whole and sword style is favored by PC) - -Sword +1 (Cast light or some other power) - -Sword +1 (Flames on Command) - -Sword +1 (Named, possibly some powers, ex: Shildar - blade of the nether tribe) - -Sword +2 ... well you get the idea. I hope that helps some of you. Yazin Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 07:59:25 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #274 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 10:50:00 +0200 (EET DST) From: Anias Pasi Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Items - I Hate 'Em! John Hare wrote: (about Thincols +2 sword) >and perhaps it has sentimental value to him. Or Yes I would agree to this reason (and I think it was Haavard who said something similar too). The +3 difference is not as important as most players seem to think. It's important to have a magical sword, just to be able to fight some more resistant beings (like were's), but thats enough, if You are good enough otherwise. And as the real bonus of changing the sword lessens, the importance of the sentimental and other values raise. Just Picture: The good peoples of Thyatis city wait eagerly at the colossoeum. Among them is the family of Exalcus the baker. The day is warm and they have came early to get good seats near the emperors pavilion. Aracus, the youngest son sits quietly next to his father: - -'Papa, when will the Emperor come?' - -'Soon' answers the Baker, pointing a couple rows down, 'look Aracus, its General Micos Naxtarcas in his seremonial armor'. - -'Oh!'Says Aracus,'wasn't it him who won the orc's of Habka?' - -'Yes son, he himself killed Habka the Black with that longsword of his' [longsword +5, +2 vs orcs]. - -'Wow, its pretty' The trumpets start blowing, and all guards rise to stand as the Emperor walks into his pavilion with his son and escorts. - -'Oh! Papa, its Emperor Thincol' The Emperor stops at the rail of his pavilion and cries in a booming woice: -'let the games began!' Rising his old but still gleaming short sword [short sword +2, The Freehart, build in the now lost village of Hargen in the county of Thyatis for the oppressed peasants under the Alphatian overlord Ira'Mhaces the Invisible, and found again just before the Revolt in a treasury of an Alphatian shopkeeper] above his head the Emperor signs for the first battle. - -'Oh! Papa! See! Hes got Freehart with him! Its the Mageslayer! Oh!' - -'Yes son, calm now. It is Thincol the Brave and it is his sword.' Turning to watch the games Exalcus the Baker whispers a small crier to his God Tarastia, joining silently to the cheers of the crowd, -'long live the Emperor. Will his arm be ever strong.' And to the question of Glen's as to just how many magical items there would be... [according to the official perception, not according to my point of view] Count: -in the Alphatian council there is 1000 mages of level 36. -suppose the mediocre lenght of life for these mages is 100 years (which is not much, but realistic, there are not many more old described in the DoE box or elsewhere) -That would mean, that of those 1000 mages 10 (1000/100) would die each year and be replaced by someone else. -So each Year there would be 10 new 36th level mages. -Alphatian empire has lasted for 2000 years in Mystara. -That would count to 200 000 mages of level 36 (2000*100) -If each one of them would create one lasting item in their life it would be a total of 200 000 items... Of cource the calculation is not wery good, but shows what we are talking about. personally I like few well defined magical items. The players tend to treasure tose few much better than they would a pile of by-the-rules items. You know, THIS is my sword, The Reaper, sounds much more fun than I think i'll use my iron +4 on this hole, err, orc I mean. Pasi //rambling in stead of working as i should... - -- X Pasi Anias X p.03 - 2533536 X \\|// X X Sammonkatu 28 A 18 X a122286@proffa X (o o) X X 33540 Tampere X .cc.tut.fi X o000--(_)--000o X *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 11:17:06 +0200 (EET DST) From: Anias Pasi Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Items - a story Speaking of magic items I thought to shear this one story to You all... Happened some 2-3 Years ago. One upon a time in Karameikos there lived a man named Francis Kelvin, a distant relative to baron Kelvin, but a thief by hart and occupation. During a visit to a homevillage of a partymember of his, Francis became bored during a dark night. To heal the boredom Francis ended up burgling a jewelers shop for some jewels and gold, and also burning the place by carelessness. Well as it was the home of one of the partymembers, the villagers asked him, a mage and a trusworthy neighbor, to find out the criminal who so endangered the whole village. Looking into the eyes of Francis the mage agreed, allready quessing the one to blame. Poor Francis forgot to hide the jewels and was so arrested faster then he could have thought possible. As a punishment, to a friend, the mage layed a curse upon the tief, that should he ever steal again, he would suffer. francis was down, not knowing the exact form of suffering, but fearing the worst. But then, enter, game to francis a companion of the other mage, an Imp of Pyts, nothing less. Says the Imp, oh poor francis, a curse too hideous was cast upon you. Should you ever steal, You would loose Your manhood and your looks, and if you again stealed you would slowly wither and end up old and ugly. All this while I could save You for a prize of a mere soul after your death. Thoughts Francis, this is not fair. To be so punished for so small a reason. Yes I will agree, but I want more. To lift a curse id easy, I want something else too. I can play a flute, and well too. And long have I wanted a magical thing to play, but none have I found, as if they were rare. Now this is the deal, You will lift the curse and give me a magical flute and my soul is yours after my death, and need. Hmm... says the imp. Agreed. Your name on this paper with blood please. And vola, the curse is gone, and wait just a moment, Puf, Paf, here is the flute. Grasping the flute Francis is happy. It is beautifully made of wood, carved vith flowers and with silver to go. And it shines a light of it own, brigther than six candles. Oh, says Francis, what does it do. Says Imp: it lights. // needles to say, Francis did not live long afterwards... Pasi - -- X Pasi Anias X p.03 - 2533536 X \\|// X X Sammonkatu 28 A 18 X a122286@proffa X (o o) X X 33540 Tampere X .cc.tut.fi X o000--(_)--000o X *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 07:12:54 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber >Well, I don't know any DM that would allow themselves to be surprised. The best way not to be surprised is to figure out the likely outcome. Find the spots the players might take a misstep, figure out how to correct it and viola! You've just player proofed your adventure. I agree to a point here. It's not surprised though....it's being prepared. All DMs should be prepared for anything the PCs do. If the DM is prepared then the adventure continues to run smoothly. But, I don't understand what you mean by saying "Find the spots the players might take a misstep, figure out how to correct it and viola! You've just player proofed your adventure".......... I don't want to jump to conclusions here, but are you saying that if the PCs stray of too far from what you thought they do, that you force them in that direction? >Allowing them to do what's in their power to do is fine. Question is what level is that? I wouldn't let 6th level characters determine the path the world takes and that's what Mark of Amber does to a small degree. 15th to 20th would be more suited to such world implications. Well, if this is your opinion, then you should adjust the module to fit your higher level PCs better. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 07:19:36 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber >The point is >that the DM does usually know the ending of the adventure. Especially if they write it. In all the years I've DMed the PCs seem to make a habbit of changing whatever i've though the most likely ending would be. You never know how the adventure will end. It's not as if the PCs are stuck in a two-dimensional video game and there's a start and an ending. They can do anything and go anywhere. You might have your ideas as to the probable outcome of the adventure, but when you actually sit down and play, the PCs become a huge variable in the story. >What you seem to be talking about is some kind of free form stuff that neither the players or DM knows what comes next. How else can you run an adventure? There's no way for the players to know what the DM has in store for them, and there's no way for the DM to know what the PCs will do in each and every situation of the adventure. >Only problem is... who's running such a creature? The DM can't be as he's as clueless as the players about what happens next. Right. That's why a DM has to spend lots of time preparing his adventures and not allowing the unknown to stop him. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 07:22:44 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - DM styles << "Only a newbie DM" would not have any idea what his players are going to choose. But every experienced DM knows that he is often wrong about what his players end up choosing! >> It sure feels weird agreeing with you latley Daly, but you've summed up my side in those words. Of course you have a good inclination as to what will happen in an adventure, but the players can never be assumed to follow down the path like walking on a road. In fact, they never really can completely. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 13:23:49 +0000 From: wizzard@mail.intcom.de Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Items - I Hate 'Em! Hi folks, regarding: >Hmmm. Just give em a few good things. It you have gone to far.. hey there is always rust monsters to eat away those magical swords and armors. # appearing 1-4 (at least)... and you can fudge. >Yazin Hmm, although I donŽt like those "gatherers" if I give away a magical item the players "deserved" it. And I can think of nothing MORE frustrating than loosing my +x armour/shield, ... to the attack of a rust-monster. Anyhow think of this item being magical and therefore more resistent than usual gear !! This is like the old "hey, IŽm the DM and I can do what I want!" Putting 4 rustmonsters there is the same as "OK, give away all your magical metal" - --> Hope you understood my point. I do play low to med level magical world and "real" magical items are heavily guarded. Max magical item is +2 dagger/sword. On the other hand WE (group and me) did some modifications in combat that they can be endangered by 15 orcs although they are all in the beginning of namelevel (9-11). [MU, Thief and Cleric] Wizzard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 07:42:02 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber >Well, I think I've decided to be offended with these newbie and now a roll-playing DM comments. You should think again, because none of my posts have intended to bring out any hostility here. I've just stated my opinion. >First, not many of you have played in any of my games. Obviously, so we all must base this on what you've told us. If we're all under the wrong impression here just announce it to us. >When designing an adventure I look >at the parts than I think players may not go toward the goal I've set before them and try to make sure there's something for them to find on this tangent. Could you explain this part better? I think this is one of the parts i don't agree with. By what you've written, if the PCs choose to decline on an opportunity it seems as if you enrich the idea until they decide to go. >Third, this adventure has three outcomes but all are only possible if the players go to the end. How is this different from my method? When the PCs work hard throughout the adventure, the least you can do is reward them with what they deserve. If they did a horrible job, then they should know this as well. It will give them an incentive to work harder next time. With predetermined endings, the PCs could fart on a rock for 10 days and Ettienne would return as an Immortal nonetheless. >It's not completely under their control and not completely under mine. Just somewhere in the middle with lots of switching back and forth at times. So, thanks for the pop psychology evaluation of my style. I was under the impression (from your last posts) that you have the begining and end already written in stone before you take the dice out. Could you just clarify this point so i can understand your argument better? Also, if you want a complete psychology evaluation of your style done, i can do that too. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 07:54:29 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mark of Amber >Sure players can affect the setting >but shouldn't be presented with possibily changing it so radically. No deciding who gets to be immortal, no deciding to let a major city burn, no allowing a whole country be destroyed. Why not? Everyone wants to be influential in thier campaign. Why not allow them to be the last standing force in defending a major city? What harm could that do? >When you look at real life, >don't you see all the things you can't change but a good sword cut? Why should players have a greater impact on their world than we have on our world? In our world, you climb the social ladder to make impact Obviously, in Mystara, things aren't the same as in the real world. This is a fantasy setting in which fantasy scenarioes are brought out. Like Conan and Rambo and any other movie which depicts one individual defeating an entire country or army by mental and physical prowess. This is what D&D is all about. Fighting against the odds, helping out in situations that show little to no chance of sucess. Self-sacrife and everything else that's in these games. Such things cannot be compared to the real world. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 07:57:27 -0400 From: Daly Subject: [MYSTARA] - School of Magic Graduation At 09:35 PM 5/4/98 -0500, you wrote: >>>>>>"R" == Robert Fry writes: The types of items you can get from the >sample graduation ordeal seems pretty decently high-magic: >elven cloak >daggar +2 >key allowing save vs. charm at +5 >key equiv. to potion of luck 1/day >key allowing free knock 1/day >shrunken laboratory Has anyone written their own tests? I am sure that more than just I would like to hear about it if you did! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #274 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 10:54:35 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #275 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Tuesday, May 5 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 275 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mark of Amber Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] The Role of Knights Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - WWII Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Items - a story Re: [MYSTARA] - DM styles Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian knowledge of Clerics Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth (was: WWII) Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Items - I Hate 'Em! Re: [MYSTARA] - Chronomancy Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Items - I Hate 'Em! Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth (was: WWII) Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Items - I Hate 'Em! Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth (was: WWII) Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian knowledge of Clerics Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth (was: WWII) Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber Re: [MYSTARA] - The Role of Knights Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] The Role of Knights Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth (was: WWII) Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] The Role of Knights ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 08:00:41 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mark of Amber At 10:48 PM 5/4/98 -0500, you wrote: >Alan Shutko wrote: >I'm currently playing in the Temple of Elemental Evil module. I have a vague idea of what awaits my character but I haven't read it yet even though I have a copy just to make sure I'm not disappionted by not picking the right path. The only thing for me to fear is the death of the character. What's in this module is a mystery to me and I intend for it to remain one till it's over. Totally off subject: Let me know if I ever say anything to spoil an adventure. I have spoken of the use of the temple of elemental evil in my own campaign, and I really hope I've given nothing away... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 08:01:42 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] The Role of Knights At 12:08 AM 5/5/98 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 5/4/98 8:06:23 AM, you wrote: ><> >A Roman term as well, for the rich young swags who could afford horses. Yes, this is true. They were also the first senators. Interesting how the responsibility for governing and warring went hand in hand... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 08:05:00 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - WWII At 12:30 AM 5/5/98 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 5/4/98 6:49:30 PM, you wrote: ><Or maybe he knows who it is, and just isn't telling. You know, I never thought of that! So, perhaps an ally of Loki? Or maybe...maybe it is a mortal... Ooh! My illithid invasion idea! Illithids are giving her dreams! They want her and her cult to show up and hand Mystara over to them... Like a farm full of fat sheep... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 08:49:39 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Items - a story At 11:17 AM 5/5/98 +0200, you wrote: >// needles to say, Francis did not live long afterwards... THis seems like a cool story. But how exactly did Frank die? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 08:54:01 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - DM styles At 07:22 AM 5/5/98 EDT, you wrote: ><< "Only a newbie DM" would not have any idea what his players are going to cchoose. But every experienced DM knows that he is often wrong about what his players end up choosing! >> >It sure feels weird agreeing with you latley Daly, ROFL! but you've summed up my >side in those words. Of course you have a good inclination as to what will happen in an adventure, but the players can never be assumed to follow down the path like walking on a road. In fact, they never really can completely. I tend to agree that as large a measure of freedom as possible should be given to the pcs. In one of my favorite campaigns, I had planned on the party going a certain direction (Go to the oracle, get some questions answered). But I made the mistake of tossing in a complication. In the other direction (The evil city that meant almost certain death) I presented the problem of one of the character's brothers being held captive. It was unknown just precisely who or what held him. But that character insisted on going. I should have thought of that contingency... I thought certain death might at least encourage them to "put it off" for a time. But I will point out, that the more linear adventures do seem favored by TSR lately. Has anyone else noticed this? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 08:56:36 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian knowledge of Clerics In a message dated 98-05-04 13:06:47 EDT, Jeff writes: << Thanks Aleksei! I think while Glantri would certainly not be as bad as the old Soviet Union, they would use propaganda to demonize clerics. This would extend to education even in the Great School of Magic.>> I think that is the very case. At least as told by G:KoM. In G:KoM there is an example of propaganda art used by the Glantrians. In it a mage and warrior are depicted as kicking out a cleric. The mage is depicted as noble, the warrior as regal. Whereas the ejected cleric is portrayed as ugly and foolish. This is interesting as if you flip back a ways to Sablestone's description, you can see something peculiar. The cleric on page 20 strikes an uncanny resemblence to Prince Harald (page 67). Well, minus the gray hair and an unafflicted arm. And Harald is a bit more calmer looking too. But the resemblence is there. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 08:58:13 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber At 07:42 AM 5/5/98 EDT, you wrote: >>Well, I think I've decided to be offended with these newbie and now a roll-playing DM comments. >You should think again, because none of my posts have intended to bring out any hostility here. I've just stated my opinion. I would say the words "ridiculous" and "newbie" were definitely inflammatory. But I wonder if this is a difference in language perhaps? Perhaps the writer did not realize how harsh his tone sounded? We all, I am certain, have differing DM styles. And, I am also certain, different player styles. I believe some players (like myself) want the largest measure of freedom possible. Then when I choose to do the heroic deed, it means more to me. I chose not to steal the artifact for myself or make a grab for power by keeping knowledge of the hidden heir secret. But I have no doubt that there are players who expect a good story and a good combat. There are players who don't want to have to figure out where the story should be going. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 09:17:31 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth (was: WWII) In a message dated 98-05-04 13:38:42 EDT, Max IV writes: << Umm.. Gareth == Benekander? Hmm.. That could be interesting, but Benekander is an initiate, he is probably the least powerful immortal right now. Gareth's creed is to stop immortal interference? Woah. I figure that Gareth may be someone a *bit* more powerful :)>> I would not say he was underpowered. If Gareth is Benekander, then he would most certainly have a nest egg of PPs to start on. IIRC in WotI he spent some time seeing his new world. Time which probably saw him adventuring about doing the Mortal Identity thing. Plus he surely scored highly during the WotI. These two scenarios could see him achieving a level or two. Also IIRC at the end of the adventure Benekander is kicked back eating with some of the other Immortals. Several of which are Heirarchs. Not too shabby for the newest Immortal. Anyway, all Immortals have to start somewhere. Destiny just placed Benekander as a major player. Is he Gareth, I am not sure. Gareth's Staff falls on simular lines as Benekander's Staff. But let us say the two are not the same. Let us say that Gareth is a psuedonym for an already existing Immortal. Let us say that Immortal is one that wishes to seperate Immortals from their followings by himself preaching noninterference. If this noninterference takes hold then that Immortal can have a veritable free reign in doing what he wants without fellow Immortals policing his actions. Now let us say that that Immortal is a really bad Immortal. Let us say it is Thanatos who did all of this to bring about his own goals. Or let us say that during Wrath, Arik got loose and assumed this role as a revenge factor in addition to covering his butt. Interesting scenarios. Myself I would keep it simple and say that Gareth is Benekander or is a new Immortal. And Immortal raised to the status through the events of WotI. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 09:27:22 EDT From: CRlPTONITE Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Items - I Hate 'Em! >>On the flipside of that, take a look at Jaggar's inventory.....if you have enough time on your hands to read the whole list... or Ettienne's and his family as well. We're talking serious items, and quite a few of em. >I have looked at Jaggar. He has a ring of protection plus 1... In addition to the ROP+1 he has a short sword +4, scarab of protection, brooch of shielding, amulet of proof against detection and location, medallion of protection AC2, Blackmoorian lightning rod, 83 golems, 16 mechanical magens, 14 manikins, 10 living statues, and possibly one of the orb of dragonkind artifacts. - --- -- --Criptonite *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 09:27:32 EDT From: CRlPTONITE Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Chronomancy << Talking about time travel.....I was wondering if anyone has integrated chronomancy into thier mystara. Seeing how Mystara is so full of magic, it would make sense for Chronomancy to be used somewhere in Mystara. IMC i have it as a lost art, something used back around the time of Blackmoor and disappearing around 2500-3000 BC.....however a few NPCs have unearthed the lost arts and may use them. For those who might not know...Chronomancy is the art of using magic to manipulate time. Anyone use it? -Inconu >> I haven't used the Chronomancy book, but I do have a couple NPCs who have time traveled. My campaign takes place in early Blackmoor. A combination of spells with a great amount of the black rock can make a "time machine." This was shown in the Comeback Inn. Toward the end of Blackmoor I have an evil NPC who rediscovers the secrets of time travel. The mortal Khoronus, head of the equivalent of the FBI, feels forced to learn his techniques and follow him through time. Khoronus had no interest in time travel before this. - --- -- --Criptonite *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 10:01:32 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Items - I Hate 'Em! While it may be true that a veritable bounty of magical items are laying about, getting them into the hands of the PCs is the real trick. Magic Items have to have a viable reason for being among that treasure hoard that the hobgoblins have stashed. And why do they not use them? Magic Items are created by a mage for his own use. Sure the magical artisians are utilized to enchant armours and weapons for the warrior. But these should be fractionary as compared to personal magist magical items. And these items are not limited to "Orbs of This and That" and "Rings of doing A little of Everything". Other more common magical items could be used to do everyday chores. Chores to make the mages life easier. Self Lighting candles, self pouring decanters and pitchers, self filling and self heating bath tubs, and the very neccessary Animated Back Scratcher. Items such as these can easily be overlooked in favor of those flashy magical items. IMO magical items fall within three basic periods. The first being items created during the Blackmoor period. The second being created during the Nithian period. The third being created during the Alphatian period. Each period sees a change in the types of magical items as the period rises and falls. Styles and functions should also vary. Other cultures creating magic items can be explained as offshoots of the primary sources designs. The exceptions being clan relics of demihumans. Here is another notion. In my Randel description, I have the Elite King's Guard as donning enchanted scale mail. This armour type was chosen as the design can be seen as being a tie to the Old Alphatian World. A tie that is solidified since most suits are from that period and place. IMO the Old Alphatians had many more magical items. Afterall, magic was like second naturew to them. It is feasible that the creation of them was also easier. And it is easy to justify that the Alphatians brought a large number of those items to Mystara. Some of which could possibly work on Mystara. Though a DM could have fun by alterring powers. These powers reverting back as Into the Maelstrom is played. Also described in my Randel is the time needed to change over. For instance, one regiment type has a a company of mages eqippped with an enchanted staff. These staves are relatively new. They are expensive and changing the mages of this type of regiment over to the staves has been long and lengthy. As of AY2000, the changeover is still in process. The original company has been split into two companies. One eqippped with the staff, the other equipped with the old nonmagical staff, Bracers of Protection, Dagger, and wand. The wands of the upgraded companies being allotted to the old style war mages. I also dallied with magic items created using other sources. One such item is an armour type created using the scales of a dragon. I gave the armour an ability to offer protection vs. fire (tradtional Flaemish magic) and an AC bonus. Well I am rambling and giving away much Randel info prematurely. For instance, if I were to continue I might spill the beans about the vampirc elf. Or maybe the the teleport pads at the Randel Forts. Or how about the the Combat Engineers and their neat uses for common spells. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 10:54:35 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #275 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 16:01:12 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth (was: WWII) On Tue, 5 May 1998, Alex295 wrote: >Now let us say that that Immortal is a really bad Immortal. Let us say it is Thanatos who did all of this to bring about his own goals. Or let us say that during Wrath, Arik got loose and assumed this role as a revenge factor in addition to covering his butt. Interesting scenarios. >Myself I would keep it simple and say that Gareth is Benekander or is a new Immortal. And Immortal raised to the status through the events of WotI. But why would he go through all that "I have returned from the Vortex" mumbo-jumbo if he is just a new sissy Initiate? Besides, unless he aquired Immortality from the Radience or similar unorthodox means, he would have to have a sponsor. Meaning that at least one Immortal would have to know about it. (Loki? Nah, he is too smart to do something like that.) Right now the Immortals are wondering who this guy, a potential threat, is. I prefer to think that what he says is true. Unless he is evil. But I think we have enough throughout evil people already. It would be more reasonable to think that he only has a different point of view..Unless its Arik who has returned... When I first read about Gareth, the first thing that struck me was that something MAJOR is happening. Introducing another Initiate is not. He could be one from the sphere of Integration...which would make him a Hierarch? Well, just some thoughs I wanted to share with you all.. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 10:06:17 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Items - I Hate 'Em! At 10:01 AM 5/5/98 EDT, you wrote: >While it may be true that a veritable bounty of magical items are laying about, getting them into the hands of the PCs is the real trick. Magic Items have to have a viable reason for being among that treasure hoard that the hobgoblins have stashed. And why do they not use them? >Magic Items are created by a mage for his own use. Sure the magical artisians are utilized to enchant armours and weapons for the warrior. But these should be fractionary as compared to personal magist magical items. And these items are not limited to "Orbs of This and That" and "Rings of doing A little of Everything". Other more common magical items could be used to do everyday chores. Chores to make the mages life easier. Self Lighting candles, self pouring decanters and pitchers, self filling and self heating bath tubs, and the very neccessary Animated Back Scratcher. Items such as these can easily be >overlooked in favor of those flashy magical items. >IMO magical items fall within three basic periods. The first being items created during the Blackmoor period. The second being created during the Nithian period. The third being created during the Alphatian period. Each period sees a change in the types of magical items as the period rises and falls. Styles and functions should also vary. Other cultures creating magic items can be explained as offshoots of the primary sources designs. The exceptions being clan relics of demihumans. This is a REALLY good concept and one that I think we have all thought of. But, let's expand on it. What sort of details, specific items would you consider: Blackmoorian? Nithian? Alphatian? Glantrian? Or perhaps time period-wise I should say: Alphatian/Glantrian...? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 10:07:26 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth (was: WWII) At 04:01 PM 5/5/98 +0200, you wrote: >On Tue, 5 May 1998, Alex295 wrote: >>Myself I would keep it simple and say that Gareth is Benekander or is a new Immortal. And Immortal raised to the status through the events of WotI. >But why would he go through all that "I have returned from the Vortex" mumbo-jumbo if he is just a new sissy Initiate? Ah, but don't you see? That is precisely why he would do it! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 16:12:28 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian knowledge of Clerics On Mon, 4 May 1998, Daly wrote: Alexei: >>In the hard-line communist days, it went basically according to Karl Marx: Religion is used by oppressors of the people to keep the workers in line. The priests just collect tithes from the workers while preaching that this is the way it must be. >Thanks Aleksei! I think while Glantri would certainly not be as bad as the old Soviet Union, they would use propaganda to demonize clerics. This would extend to education even in the Great School of Magic. Sounds to me that Glantri is a lot worse than the old Soviet Union. When concerned with Clerics at least.. Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 16:20:39 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth (was: WWII) On Tue, 5 May 1998, Daly wrote: >At 04:01 PM 5/5/98 +0200, you wrote: >>On Tue, 5 May 1998, Alex295 wrote: >>>Myself I would keep it simple and say that Gareth is Benekander or is a new Immortal. And Immortal raised to the status through the events of WotI. >>But why would he go through all that "I have returned from the Vortex" mumbo-jumbo if he is just a new sissy Initiate? >Ah, but don't you see? That is precisely why he would do it! It sounds good as a prank, but we are talking about Immortals here. They will find out. And when they do, they wonŽt be happy. Ofcourse, this guy could be an utter imbecile, but that would be an anticlimax, dont you agree? Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 10:25:12 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber In a message dated 98-05-04 22:46:04 EDT, you write: << Maybe that's how it is in your adventures. But in a good adventure the DM can't know the outcome. What you are doing is writing a story and letting the players act out a part in it. That's called roll-playing. Role-playing is more like one of those "choose-your-own-adventure" books. It starts in one place but it could end up going anywhere. D&D is all about role-playing. That's what makes it fun in the first place. >> I have to agree with Criptonite on this. An adventure is a simple lay out of events. A DMs job is to plant hints and such to coerce the PCs to do what he wishes. How many times has a DM spent so much time and effort on an adventure and the PCs go a different direction? It happens, and for the DM it is not pretty. I also agree with Jeff. An experienced DM should be able to predict the actions of a PC, especially if he has been running the group for any amount of time. If he can predict his PCs actions and reaction it can make for a most interesting game. So you guys are both right. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 16:30:15 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Role of Knights On Mon, 4 May 1998, Brunciak wrote: >Greetings! Welcome back Bob. HowŽs your campaign going? >In Mystara, the role of Knights probably wouldn't change even though Mystara has a great deal of standing armies. In the real world, Rome never needed anything like knight because it had a professional army. In the Middle Ages, however, one of the only places in Europe able to pay for a professional and standing army was the Byzantine Empire, and they even hired mercenaries sometimes. So in Mystara, Knights would still be valuable because you need people to supplement your standing army during war. Knights went where the war was so I wouldn't see any real change between Earth and Mystara. IŽve draw a lot of inspiration in my campaign from ChaosiumŽs Pendragon, where the Knights role primarily is to be lord of the land. Ofcourse he is supposed to be off questing awell. In addition there are some knightly orders. The members of these are primarily mercenaries as you described them. I use the Order of the Three Suns, which was mentioned in the Penhaligion triology. Also, knights would be more like officers in armies. But are they neccesary in professional Roman-like legions? >There has also been disscussion on how land was controlled in Thyatis and the situation with slaves. Even though I don't see Thyatis as Mystaran form of the Byzantine Empire, I'll use it's early system as a template. Farms were large estate ruled by powerful nobles. they weren't staffed by freemen-farmers. There were no serfs in Byzantium until well into its history though slavery was still practiced (however, it was more like a kinder Roman slavery where prisoners of war were made slaves or poor folks sold family members into it and the slaves were treated more like serfs). >This is how I would deal with Thyatis' land- large Estates held by powerful nobles staffed mostly by freemen-farmers (though very poor) with a minority of serfs who are way too poor to be free. Slaves in Thyatis would mostly be in an urban setting with a few on these estates. Very interesting. Would the nobles be in control of military forces or are they controlled directly by the Emperor? The Emperor guarrantees the position of the nobles? Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 16:43:52 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] The Role of Knights On Mon, 4 May 1998, Daly wrote: >At 04:25 PM 5/4/98 +0000, you wrote: >By "baron" I am simply referring to the fact that most Knights did own land. Part of their duties was to help the king govern the kingdom. Sometimes this was a military duty, and sometimes it was a "oversee the peasants" duty. Yes. This is the sort of knight that I am mainly interested in. They would be in charge of townships and such and would be one class lower than Barons. Actually, according to Pendragon(RPG), Barons command a number of Banneret Knights who in turn command a number of Vassal Knights. All these are land owning. Non-landowning Knights could serve any noble, or knightly order. Im thinking that this system fits nicely with Karameikos. Something similar might apply to Darokin aswell, though they wouldnt be nobles as such, though Im not sure about Thyatis. >There were many "knights bachelor" as they were called, who did not own an estate. "Traveler" though is far different from "mercenary". In many ways yes. For one they were much more well respected (or feared), but they often did the same work. >>So they had to travel and sell their swords to survive or to gain a fief for themselves. >I am unaware of them being "sellswords". IsnŽt that where the word "freelance" comes from? Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 10:46:39 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth (was: WWII) At 04:20 PM 5/5/98 +0200, you wrote: >On Tue, 5 May 1998, Daly wrote: >>At 04:01 PM 5/5/98 +0200, you wrote: >>>On Tue, 5 May 1998, Alex295 wrote: >>>>Myself I would keep it simple and say that Gareth is Benekander or is a new >>>>Immortal. And Immortal raised to the status through the events of WotI. >>>But why would he go through all that "I have returned from the Vortex" mumbo-jumbo if he is just a new sissy Initiate? >>Ah, but don't you see? That is precisely why he would do it! >It sounds good as a prank, but we are talking about Immortals here. They will find out. And when they do, they wonŽt be happy. Ofcourse, this guy could be an utter imbecile, but that would be an anticlimax, dont you agree? Maybe I was not clear in my comments. The question was: If Benekendar, an alleged "sissy initiate", is the one behind Gareth, then why does he go through all the "I have returned from the Vortex mumbo-jumbo"? My answer is that the question answers itself. If you were a sissy initiate out to discredit the establishment, wouldn't you go for the mystical declaration rather than admitting "Hey guys, I am just a sissy initiate, but I don't think you should be interfering so much with the mortals. They are my friends" *Benekendar proceeds to wipe his nose on his sleeve* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 16:53:28 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] The Role of Knights On Sun, 3 May 1998, Daly wrote: >On the contrary, Thyatis enslaves many people of other races. Historically (No, not just in America...) enslaving a person who looks different from you, makes it easier... Isnt it essential when comparing US slavery and medeival/classical slavery that in the US at the time, it was recognized that humans had value themselves. Thus the reason for saying that Blacks are not humans. While in Rome, humans didnt really have much value at all? (Hmmm..I may be wrong about this) Thats why they didnt have to make up all that nonsense about races in those times? Also in a fantasy world, wouldnt one think that the existance of demi-humans would create more understanding between humans? (Ooops, slavery thread again? dangerous...) Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #275 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 13:33:26 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #276 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Tuesday, May 5 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 276 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth (was: WWII) [MYSTARA] - The flavor of magic Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Items - I Hate 'Em! Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] The Role of Knights Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth (was: WWII) Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth (was: WWII) Re: [MYSTARA] - Chronomancy Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mark of Amber Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth (was: WWII) Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber [MYSTARA] - Re: DM styles Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Items Ya lpour et lcontre : 2 sides Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Items - I Hate 'Em! [MYSTARA] - Illithids (was Psionics in Mystara) [MYSTARA] - Testimonial for Mystara (was: A Word on the Forgotten Realms) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 17:04:30 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth (was: WWII) On Tue, 5 May 1998, Daly wrote: >Maybe I was not clear in my comments. The question was: If Benekendar, an alleged "sissy initiate", is the one behind Gareth, then why does he go through all the "I have returned from the Vortex mumbo-jumbo"? >My answer is that the question answers itself. If you were a sissy initiate out to discredit the establishment, wouldn't you go for the mystical declaration rather than admitting "Hey guys, I am just a sissy initiate, but I don't think you should be interfering so much with the mortals. They are my friends" *Benekendar proceeds to wipe his nose on his sleeve* Okay. If he is Benekander (I was also arguing against him being another neverbefore heard of Initiate) and his only motive is to discredit the establishment, then I agree with you. Kind a like an Immortal anarchist, huh? But it seems like a really gutsy thing to do. Maybe stupid. I always thought Benekander would try to reason with the Immortals, making them change their ways rather than using such under-the-belt strokes as pitching their potential followers against them. Anyway, I still think Gareth being really powerful sounds like a cooler idea (personally), but I agree that your theory is valid. (and not a bad one :) Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 10:59:33 -0400 From: Daly Subject: [MYSTARA] - The flavor of magic Sorry about that long quoted post guys. But to continue the idea, here are some of my thoughts regarding magic items and the Nithian/Blackmoorian/Alphatian element. In each description I will use a wand of magic missle. BLACKMOOR A tubular device of metal or a lightweight, non-metal/non-wood of unidentifiable substance (plastic). Perhaps even ceramic. If broken open, one can see the myriad thin metal strips of copper, silver and gold running along the length. The precise relationship between these strands of metal and the magic involved is undetermined. That there IS magic involved is unquestionable. The device radiates magic and a dispel magic does have an effect on it if cast at a high enough level. But rather than command words, the thing has a stud on the side which is depressed to execute a charge. The spell which comes out of the tip is a beam or a small, fast projectile. Perhaps a "plasmic beam" or an arrow-like beam. NITHIA This one is stylized with a crook at one end or a circle with a cross. Other than a few painted rings, or perhaps hieroglyphs, it is fairly plain. Especially by modern standards... The word of command is from the Nithian language and often is a bastardization of one of the Nithian Immortals. The spell manifests as a pulsating black arrow. ALPHATIA Thin, sometimes with a small "hilt" so as to fit into a wand sheathe, it is often the shortest of the three wands. The military version is usually plain while a mage's personal weapon is often adorned with jewels or tracery in some sort of valuable metal. Ancient Alphatian or draconic words are placed along the shaft sometimes as a hint to the command words but rarely as an outright "giveaway". The spell manifests as a vaguely arrow-shaped blast of yellow, gold, silver, or red. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 11:26:46 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Items - I Hate 'Em! In a message dated 98-05-05 10:36:45 EDT, you write: << This is a REALLY good concept and one that I think we have all thought of. But, let's expand on it. What sort of details, specific items would you consider:>> Good point. It should be noted that the periods are named as such due to those Empires being the main magical entitity of that period. Other nations benefit from the named nation as the knowledge and items trickle out to them. Brun has a great advantage as it can claim influence from all three. In a nutshell..... Blackmoorian Dynasty- Early period would see a heavy influence of Thonia (whatever that may be) Early examples would be used for defensive and military purposes to protect Blackmoor from all those nasty neighbors. Overall items would be constructed for function over decor. Mid Period examples would see a refinement in vessel design as the Blackmoor's situation settles and its borders secure. Items begin to broaden in enchantement variety as new theories are implemented. Late period items see the influence of technology reaved from the Beagle. Items incorporate, suppliment, or are developed to compete against these techno items. Items could also take on a fashionable role as a tool for the wealthy. Nithian Dynasty- Well, not really sure. Early period could be an extension of the Blackmoor theories. The Nithians would take these theories and meld them to early Nithian social attributes. Necessity would take precidence. Middle period items would display the settling of the Nithians as the culture solidifies. Items would turn to comfort and self use. Theories would broaden and advance and the items would display great variation and greater power. You would see a finetuning and creation would be simplified, especially on the old early period items.. Late period pieces would see refinement of the early and mid periods. The late pieces would overshadow the early ones. Late period pieces would also see a great increase in power to assist the expansionism of the Empire. Late period Nithian pieces would also have an abrupt halt due to the sudden loss of the empire. The level of items can be seen in those portrayed in HW's Nithiajns as the SoP would keep them as is. Alphatian Dynasty- Early pieces have a strong influence from the Old Alphatian World. The adaptions to Mystara will show through on Mystaran created items. Since the Alphatians just finished a "small" conflict, the items can be offensive and defensive weapons. Most Mystaran magic theories and devices are used to establish the Alphatians and adapt. Mid period items would see a return to lethargic items based on comfort. This switch being initiated as Mystaran magical thoeries becomes understood to the Alphatians and the Empire establishes itself. Items take on a great deal of variation as theories and procedures are experimented with (divert from Air Magics). Late period items would see an accumulation and refinement of the theories and such. New research is done only to fill specific needs. Old stand bys are readily available and used extensively. Some research goes to offer variation in current spells. <> I'd keep it as Alphatian just to spite the Glantri and Thyatian crowd. :-) But seriously...Alphatia was the major player in regards to magic. Glantri is a spinoff of Alphatia. They would fall under the Alphatian Dynasty just like the Ancient Traldarans fall under the Nithian Dynasty. Each Dynasty influence the world. Of course the Nithian's influence is mostly unseen or forgotten as the memory of the empire is long gone. The closer to the named nation the stronger the influence. IMO Thyatis is heavily influenced by Alphatia. Before Alphatia occupied them they were a mass of wandering tribes. After kicking out the Alphatians, the Thyatians took the residual Alphatian theories and combined them with residual Nithian theories. Whallah...you have Brun magics. In CoM it says that the Alphatians are decades ahead of the rest of the nations as far as skyships. IMO skyship design is the one really visible area the Alphatians strive at. Other venues have been slackened due to the Alphatian tendency to a chaotic lifestyle. The speels are there, all one has to have is the ability to cast them. Hence some stagnancy is apparent. The true stride in Alphatian spell advancement comes from those mages that are off doing their own research. Research that is kept secret from rival mages. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 11:28:57 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] The Role of Knights At 04:53 PM 5/5/98 +0200, you wrote: >On Sun, 3 May 1998, Daly wrote: >>On the contrary, Thyatis enslaves many people of other races. Historically (No, not just in America...) enslaving a person who looks different from you, makes it easier... >Isnt it essential when comparing US slavery and medeival/classical slavery that in the US at the time, it was recognized that humans had value themselves. Well first off, I don't want to get into another debate on slavery. But I do feel compelled to point out that slavery was world wide and not just in the US. We also weren't the only ones to enslave blacks or others because they were different. Such things still go on in Africa to this day. Thus the reason for saying that Blacks are not humans. This is another thing, that while horrible, is overplayed. It was not a nationwide, or worldwide, belief. But you are right, some did justify what they did for that reason. There were several justifications in fact, some tried to say it was their religious duty, others tried to claim they were concerned for the African's well being. In either case, I would say it was the difference in looks that made it easier to justify. While >in Rome, humans didnt really have much value at all? (Hmmm..I may be wrong about this) Thats why they didnt have to make up all that nonsense about races in those times? Actually they did. A Roman would certainly have thought better of himself than he would a Sabine, or an Etruscan, or a Celt. Though we don't see much difference in these people today, all 4 would likely look at us as if we were daft if we suggested that there was no difference. Appearance-wise. I am reminded of an old Star Trek episode in which there were two warring cultures. One had green on the left side of his face and white on the other while the other race had the reverse. Kirk asked them once what the difference between their two peoples was, and they both looked at him as if he was a moron. Also in a fantasy world, wouldnt one think that the eexistance of demi-humans would create more understanding between humans? You have a good point there. I treat the enslaving of dwarves as being similar to the short-lived attempt to enslave the indians. Basically it was seen that the indians fought back too hard and were very difficult to keep as slaves. Sometimes they would just sink into a depression and work could not be gotten out of them. I see slavery as being foreign to dwarven culture. The idea of forcing work out of an unwilling person (the idea of being unwilling to work at all!) is something a dwarf just doesn't get. And they will fight it. This is not completely like the indians. Just similar. The indians did have slavery in their culture. I don't see the dwarves being able to understand the concept at first glance, and then reacting with absolute horror once the idea is explained. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 11:33:27 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth (was: WWII) At 05:04 PM 5/5/98 +0200, you wrote: >On Tue, 5 May 1998, Daly wrote: >>Maybe I was not clear in my comments. The question was: If Benekendar, an alleged "sissy initiate", is the one behind Gareth, then why does he go through all the "I have returned from the Vortex mumbo-jumbo"? >>My answer is that the question answers itself. If you were a sissy initiate out to discredit the establishment, wouldn't you go for the mystical declaration rather than admitting "Hey guys, I am just a sissy initiate, but I don't think you should be interfering so much with the mortals. They are my friends" *Benekendar proceeds to wipe his nose on his sleeve* >Okay. If he is Benekander (I was also arguing against him being another neverbefore heard of Initiate) and his only motive is to discredit the establishment, then I agree with you. Kind a like an Immortal anarchist, huh? But it seems like a really gutsy thing to do. Maybe stupid. Ahem, more like an Immortal freedom fighter I think. A revolutionary Immortal. >I always thought Benekander would try to reason with the Immortals, making them change their ways rather than using such under-the-belt strokes as pitching their potential followers against them. I am sure he tried this at first. You know, I shall have to look it up, but there is a parable or psalm in the Bible which basically has God speaking to the other "gods" and saying basically "How long can your injustice endure? I am replacing you." I always thought it was really cool. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 11:53:52 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth (was: WWII) In a message dated 98-05-05 11:21:50 EDT, you write: << > Maybe I was not clear in my comments. The question was: If Benekendar, an >alleged "sissy initiate", is the one behind Gareth, then why does he go through all the "I have returned from the Vortex mumbo-jumbo"? >> Hmm...."the return from the Vortex" slipped my mind. If that is the case, then Gareth could very well be a psuedonym for Arik. The Vortex could also be explained by Benekander as the misty imprisonment of the Shield in which he spent so much time within. Hey wait...in Bruce's Rakasta article it made mention of the Rakasta Immortal coming back. Why not another Immortal. An Immortal predating WotI. A powerful Immortal that has spent centuries wandering about or focused attentions elsewhere on another planet. WotI caused a "felt disturbance" calling him back to Mystara. He reimmerges and is pretty miffed at what he sees. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 17:58:50 +0200 (MET DST) From: Wolfgang Razen Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Chronomancy Hi Folks! About the Chronomancerstuff... I trnasformed the T$R Chrono-Book, which is far to scientific to use as a new class (e.g. evolutionary degeneration Spell, gulp!), into a glantrian type circle. 5 grades (as usual), resricted on higher levels (6-12-18-24-30), far more XP-costly (10-20-50-100-200KXP) and highly risky (FAILURES OF 01-05) Here a sketch of the abilities (full description ca be mailed (Win97 doc, german (sorry), PM to shadow@Pool.informatik.rwth-aachen.de, Subj: Chono-doc) 1st circle: Sense timeflow Determine timeflow Sense anomalies 2nd circle Look into Future Look into Past Gain History knowledge Vision 3rd circle Control Timeflow Timeshield Cloak of time 4th circle Contingency Permanence Repeat time non-anchored Timetravel into Future 5th circle Disrupt Time Timetravel (I could have forgotten some abilities...) As you can see, I took some reference onto MAGE-the Ascension, Sphere of Time All comments are Welcomed - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- shadow@POOL.informatik.rwth-aachen-de | If you flee, you only die tiered shadowelf@genesis.informatik.rwth-aachen.de | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 11:59:06 EDT From: CRlPTONITE Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mark of Amber << If you hadn't read WotI how would you know what are the possible endings?!?! How does a player know the ending of something they shouldn't?!?! Just tell me that! >> Players shouldn't know what the possible endings are, but they should know that there are possible endings. Any player would expect that. Who would think the DM would cheat? << It's up to the DM to provide the illusion that players have made a huge impact on the world. >> No it's not! The point of role playing isn't to trick the other players. It's not to fool them into believing that what they are doing is important to Mystara when it's not. It's just a game. Let them have some fun. If an intelligent player finds a chink in Karameikos's armor and discovers a way to assassinate Stefan, let it happen. The DMs job is to adapt. That's what makes it so difficult to be a DM. Experienced DMs pride themselves on adaptability. Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 13:33:26 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #276 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com << 6th level adventurers just shouldn't have that kind of impact on a campaign. What are you going to do at 12th? Have a couple of Immortals engage them in a fight because they want one? >> Low level characters can have incredible impact on the world. In Ravenloft, for instance, some of the domains are run by 0-level characters. On Mystara there are many people in powerful positions who are not at a high level. - --- -- --Criptonite *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 11:58:54 EDT From: CRlPTONITE Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber << Well, I think I've decided to be offended with these newbie and now a roll- playing DM comments. >> I am the one who said roll-playing DM. You said that when you DM you know the ending before you start the game. Roll-playing is giving the player a character's part to act out. Role-playing is giving the player a character to control. If the DM knows the beginning AND the end of the adventure, he is only letting the player roll-play. << First, not many of you have played in any of my games. Second, if you had then you'd know that I do a style of storytelling but not all the stories get told because the players skip over the clues that lead to these stories or let a character die that I had chosen to feature in this one. >> I haven't played with you, but I have played with DMs who run adventures similar to the way you describe yours. The DM never thinks anything is wrong because the players have no idea what the outcome will be. The DM thinks that the players will love their story. The problem is that the players feel trapped. They can't do what they want to do. If they want to wander off the road the PC will see horde of dragons, a mountain chain, an ocean, something that will turn them back onto the road. The players will quickly figure out what the DM is doing and they will become frustrated. I once had a PC who had a bad feeling about the building he was walking into. I had my character stop to think about the situation. The DM said "No, you wouldn't do that." My character had to go in the building and get captured because that was part of the DMs story. He never DMed again. - --- -- --Criptonite *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 12:05:35 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth (was: WWII) At 11:53 AM 5/5/98 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 98-05-05 11:21:50 EDT, you write: ><< > Maybe I was not clear in my comments. The question was: If Benekendar, an >>alleged "sissy initiate", is the one behind Gareth, then why does he go through all the "I have returned from the Vortex mumbo-jumbo"? >> >Hmm...."the return from the Vortex" slipped my mind. If that is the case, then >Gareth could very well be a psuedonym for Arik. The Vortex could also be explained by Benekander as the misty imprisonment of the Shield in which he spent so much time within. Hey wait...in Bruce's Rakasta article it made mention of the Rakasta Immortal coming back. Why not another Immortal. An Immortal predating WotI. A powerful Immortal that has spent centuries wandering about or focused attentions elsewhere on another planet. WotI caused a "felt disturbance" calling him back >to Mystara. He reimmerges and is pretty miffed at what he sees. Sounds good. Now, is there any reason he chooses "vortex"? Probably, whether he really came from the Vortex or not is unimportant. The Vortex is the only barrier to the Immortals. It hides the 6th dimensions and beyond and of course the Old Ones. So even if it is a known Immortal he would likely use such a barrier to explain his sudden appearance. Just rambling... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 12:11:19 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber At 11:58 AM 5/5/98 EDT, you wrote: ><< Well, I think I've decided to be offended with these newbie and now a roll- >playing DM comments. >> >I am the one who said roll-playing DM. You said that when you DM you know the >ending before you start the game. Roll-playing is giving the player a character's part to act out. Role-playing is giving the player a character to >control. If the DM knows the beginning AND the end of the adventure, he is only letting the player roll-play. ><< First, not many of you have played in any of my games. Second, if you had then you'd know that I do a style of storytelling but not all the stories get told because the players skip over the clues that lead to these stories or let >a character die that I had chosen to feature in this one. >> >I haven't played with you, but I have played with DMs who run adventures similar to the way you describe yours. The DM never thinks anything is wrong because the players have no idea what the outcome will be. The DM thinks that >the players will love their story. The problem is that the players feel trapped. They can't do what they want to do. If they want to wander off the road the PC will see horde of dragons, a mountain chain, an ocean, something that will turn them back onto the road. But what if the players come to an intersection. They can choose three ways now (4 if you count going back). Though it appears to them that they have 1, 2, and 3 to choose from; the DM knows that 1 is the only choice. Whichever road they take, the destination will be the same. ...Just to use the same vague analogy. In actual practice it is very difficult to run a linear adventure and create the illusion of choice. I don't have any disrespect for those who do it and do it well. Myself, I prefer the open road or no road at all. As for major things like assasinating Archduke Stephen, I would see to it that such pcs died in the attempt. But if we were talking about a major bad guy, then yes, I would congratulate them on the deed. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: 05 May 1998 11:24:20 -0500 From: Alan Shutko Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: DM styles >>>>>"D" == Daly writes: D> But I will point out, that the more linear adventures do seem D> favored by TSR lately. Has anyone else noticed this? Irt's not just TSR... it seems to be all gaming companies. Certainly all the adventures in Shadis are as linear as a short story. It seems to be that people associate lineariy with "plot". Since plot is a good thing to have in adventures, many think that only linear adventures are good adventures. It's probably related to the two main adventure structures. You have the traditional room-based adventure (dungeon-crawl, most likely) and you have the event-based adventure (linear, most likely). Some adventures have done a good job of correcting the problems with each, IMHO. If you have a good description of the motivations, routines, etc. of the principal NPCs, you can referee how they would act in relation to party action (or inaction). Then, their interactions will naturally determine the course of the adventure. This is more difficult, but I think it can be done well. It also depends on the skill of the DM, which is probably why few published adventures try to do this. Too many people would purchase it, and without realizing that they needed to put more effort into it, would complain that it was a bad adventure. - -- Alan Shutko - By consent of the corrupted The only real advantage to punk music is that nobody can whistle it. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 16:07:48 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Items Ya lpour et lcontre : 2 sides >Hi all ... >I've a different point of view for you ... As was young, were in my group 2 different guys : old players ( which i didn't belong ) and the others ... The first ones have so many magic items that a 'detect magic' could blind even a Phenix. We've never been able to get enough to quiet any of their PC ... I think the fact they'd played D&D and AD&D modules (although we don't) help them in this way. Don't you think there're too magic items in any of TSR module ? SSome of my friend say indeed that TSR mean 'trésors sur Règle' (treasure about rule). But the fact that damned magic item are rare make me think that it'll be impossible to prevent adventurers to get many ... Even my preferred mage look for scrolls and potions ... >This is a NP-complete problem ( for those who understand it )... >Marcus I run a fair number of modules, but the first thing that happens is the vast majority of magic items get stripped. You know, it isnt really a problem, having very few magic items lying about. Players like to get hold of magic items because it makes them more powerful, just like they like to get experience. But giving out Glantrian circles and that sort of thing can take the place of lots of magic items. It makes one mage different from the next, and it makes the player think hey, cool, I've got this nifty power that no one else in the party has... My old Red Steel campaign is winding down a bit now - everyone is about 15th level and looking at their Immortal Quests... But there are very few magic items about - a couple of wands of lightning, a +3 rapier, bag of holding, assorted potions and scrolls... and thats about it. I dont think the lack of items bothers the players because they have got all sorts of little skills picked up along the way - which, incidentally are not as powerful as the majority of AD+D magic items... What players really want for their characters is individuality. Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 16:13:53 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Items - I Hate 'Em! >Oh, you would hate our party. We would hoard as much magic as we could. Always upgrading to the better stuff, but stashing our old stuff away for the rainy day that would most assuredly come. Our DM wouldn't always throw juicy stuff at us but some we would sell and then hire mages or try ourselves to make us the better stuff. Well, I'm playing a mage with the capability to make magic items (and have done so in the past). If someone came up to me and asked me to make a Staff of Power for 200,000gp i would say Bugger Off. When mages are that powerful they dont really need to make cash from the sale of items. Money is an irrelevance! PC mages certainly would rather spend a year adventuring than a year making a staff just to sell it. And if PC mages can't be arsed, I can't see why NPC ones should. And yes, I agree that a +2 sword that detects evil would be very good for Thincol. But he hasn't got one of those, either. So, why not? Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 19:32:32 +0200 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Illithids (was Psionics in Mystara) In a message dated 98-05-01 14:40:44 EDT, mktriton@hotmail.com writes: >I'm Illithiad, and i'm thinking of placing them in the central, vadri PPlateau north of Sind, with an southeastern access point near Graez, Glantri, for my campaign, before setting up a page of the Illithiad on Mystara Online. And Kaviyd replied: <> well, i infer you DO want to introduce Illithids in Mystara, so i won't try to convince you not to do it. ;) So far, no proof has shown the existence of illithids on Mystara, and therefore if you want to have them dwell somewhere, it must be a place where few have gone and fewer returned. An underground place, obviously, due to the mind flayers' nature. Below the Adri Varma plateau might be a good choice, but you can also have them below the denagothian plateau and maybe even more northwards. They would thus be far enough from the shadowelves not to have been spotted by them, and far from other civilizations who could discover and report their existence to the world as well. Though this doesn't mean that the inhabitants of denagoth and the ungolwaith (sandmen of the Adri Varma) don't know the illithids.. they could have striken some sort of pact with them that has kept them hidden underground for so long without any problems or attempt to conquer the surface. But now, something is changing.. they are becoming more restless and more power hungry.. some of them have even surfaced and attacked villages of humanoids.. and it seems that they are slowly heading southwards in their underground tunnels.. as if they were migrating or following a programmed path.. What's happening really? As Dave has suggested, it could be related to the Nucleus of the Spheres or even to the Chamber of the Stars.. After the alteration of the NoS, the Entropic energy has been flooding it, and it could have affected the collective mind of the illithids too, acting like a lighthouse in a foggy night. They sense a powerful evil energy that's calling them, and they want to know what it is.. and there are voices inside the energy, whispering dark promises of resurrection and vengeance against the surface creatures.. A was is near, and the Shadowlands will be the first to be invaded by the illithid army, then Glantri's soil won't be safe anymore.. Just my thoughts on the matter. Note: i don't have The Illithiad so i don't know how you plan to do your campaign since i don't know what the original one is about.. ;) DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 19:33:01 +0200 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Testimonial for Mystara (was: A Word on the Forgotten Realms) SteelAngel wrote: >Terari would be good to fit in as a powerful mentor, He is one of the last Alphatians on the surface worth mentioning. BUT he's no Elminster. I think everyone's got his own idea about who should represent Mystara in TSR Hall of Fame, but let me tell you my idea. The major merit of Mystara is just its being FULL of interesting and unique personalities. When you think about FR, you think about Elminster or maybe Khelben, right? When you say Planescape, you think about the Lady of Pain and Ravenloft is synonim for Strahd (or maybe Azalin prior the Grim Harvest). Likewise, Greyhawk has Iuz and Mordenkainen (at least, these are the names i recall from that setting -i never played in Greyhawk) and Spelljammer has.. well, the Spelljammer itself ;). But when you say Mystara, which character do you recall first? Some could answer Etienne, others Bargle, others Terari or Thincol or Haldemar, and many other possible answers exist, i'm sure (though i admit 2/3 of these names are always magic-users.. why?). So this is its uniqueness: Mystara is a very variegated setting, and each of the nations of Mystara has its own "Elminster", though no Ultimate Elminster exists. So if you are looking for a renowned sage to gather precious information, you don't need to travel to Alphatia to get them: wherever you are you can find somebody that can help you! Every country has its own heroes, sages, rogues and villains, and all these people play on the international chessboard as peers. And the PCs CAN do the same once they reach a certain level. I mean, if you live in FR, you know you'll never be like Elminster: he'll be always more powerful than anybody else (i think this is the common belief, though i admit i never played in FR so i may be wrong). In Mystara, PCs CAN be competitive at various levels, and can ultimately become one of those personalities who write the history of the world (or the history of one country). To conclude, Mystara has "something for everyone", it's a world full of opportunities and an unpredictable world, where even the Immortals CAN be challenged AND defeated. So tell me, where could players feel more comfortable? ;) PS: this letter was not intended to be a flame against Forgettable Realms, though now that i've thought over it, i could have easily flamed without remorses.. ;) DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #276 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 15:02:23 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #277 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Tuesday, May 5 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 277 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - TSR Mystara and OUR Mystara [MYSTARA] - TSR Boards (was: Rakasta Errata) Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber [MYSTARA] - DM Styles [MYSTARA] - Gareth and Loki (was: WWII) Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber Re: [MYSTARA] - DM Styles Re: [MYSTARA] - School of Magic Graduation Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Items - I Hate 'Em! [MYSTARA] - Chronomancy, Wild Magic and other weirdness Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Items - I Hate 'Em! Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Items - I Hate 'Em! [MYSTARA] - Jaggars Items? Wuss! (aside from the golems) [MYSTARA] - About Tolerance, and DM Styles [LONG] (was Re: Mark of Amber and Re: DM Styles) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 19:33:33 +0200 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - TSR Mystara and OUR Mystara Galwylin wrote: <> Oh, c'mon! I don't see this as a problem! Else you'd have to complain also about Blackmoor and Nithia being destroyed and above all about Alphatia's sinking. When you have a campaign world, you cannot let it stagnate: you must make it run. TSR was only doing what it was required to do: keep the world alive by making events happen. That was the primary objective of WotI and of all the PWAs. Frankly, since each Mystara campaign is different from the other because of the DM's whims and PCs' actions, there will never be a played campaign that is completely adherent to the official campaign (this "official campaign" is a sort of utopia, much like the legal system of each country: sure, everyone knows how things should go and how they must behave, but everyone makes a deviation from the path at least once.. ;)). So TSR campaign is more a suggested timeline than an imposed order of things, and everyone is free to ignore or change everything he wants to fit his own campaign (heck, there are people who still have Alphatia up after WotI, so what's the problem?). <> Well, can you name other worlds not run by DMs? Another utopia... :) But i tell you, IMO a campaign world can be run from 70% to 52% by the DM and for the remaining part by the players: the DM has always the edge over the players. The difference is only how much he lets them have fun ;) - -DM- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 19:34:17 +0200 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - TSR Boards (was: Rakasta Errata) Brizio wrote: >Wouldn't it be more practical to move the message board discussion here? I mean, e-mail messages are easier (and cheaper and faster) to read and reply than message board ones. >Just my opinion. And Daly replied: <> *grin* Frankly, after reading what has been written on the TSR Boards about this List by listmembers, i am not surprised to see that many are reluctant to use the MML as field of discussion and prefer the boards. If you also consider that for more than a month the list has been choked by sterile discussions that opposed different views and nobody wanted to change his own opinion, than i do see a logic behind the exodus from this MML to the TSR Boards. The most syntomatic fact is that Bruce Heard himself is only a ghost here, while he is constantly present on the boards, giving answers to questions about the setting (questions that could have been -and some HAVE been- asked here on the list) and presenting fresh and interesting ideas on how to develop some of the areas of Mystara. This obviously makes the Boards "more important" than this list, and the amount of messages registered there testify it. Over 680 posts in what, one month and a half? It's pretty impressive.. But let's consider other aspects of the matter. Most of the posts come from the same people, with Bruce being the most active (i don't have the intention of counting them one by one - especially because the Boards are veeery slow to download - but i'd say 30% of the letters are Bruce's). So, this means that there are not 680 different people talking about Mystara on the Boards, but maybe 50-60 that post very frequently. On the other hand, this MML has more subscribers (200+ IIRC, according to the last stats given by Leroy), but a traffic of about 40-50 messages a day, and many of them are not what we could call "creative posts", which is what Bruce and many others would like to see to help revive Mystara. So, more people here, but less letters and even less creative contributions. Clearly, we have a problem here. Let's move one step forward. Many of the detractors of the list accused it of "suffocating the creative minds" and "not welcoming the newcomers", painting it as a group of close minded elitarian people. I thereby ask you all: are we? A further comment: TSR Boards has been built with one pourpose in mind IMHO, substituting the AOL Boards, and it's doing quite well, but not really as planned. If you look at the other boards, the other campaigns have very few posts on them: what does it mean? That the fans have lost interest in Dragonlance and Forgettable Realms? I don't think so.. Does it mean that the other Mailing Lists are better than ours? Uhm... again, i don't think so. Does it mean that some people feel oppressed on this list and want a new place to organize and meet and share ideas? Well, could be.. and if this is the case, we have a problem here. For how can we hope to revive Mystara if we are not able to coordinate our efforts and to listen to everyone? It's like a group that is divided among its members: how can it hope to reach its goal or even to survive? To conclude this post then, i put forth a call: If there are problems and thoughts about this list, please post them ON THIS LIST, and not on other places that are not related to it (it's like showing your dirty clothes in somebody else's house). It's just a sign of good behaving first, and it can be an occasion to discuss the problems and maybe solve them for the good of the game and of the campaign. Sure, Mystara rules the Boards and beats all the other groups of discussion by a minimum of 3 to 1 to a maximum of 60 to 1 (see the Birthright group).. so what? I still don't see WotC nor TSR running to us and begging mercy for what the and not on other places that are not related to it (it's like showing your dirty clothes in somebody else's house). It's just a sign of good behaving first, and it can be an occasion to discuss the problems and maybe solve them for the good of the game and of the campaign. Sure, Mystara rules the Boards and beats all the other groups of discussion by a minimum of 3 to 1 to a maximum of 60 to 1 (see the Birthright group).. so what? I still don't see WotC nor TSR running to us and begging mercy for what the******************************************************************* To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 13:37:24 EDT From: CRlPTONITE Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber << As for major things like assasinating Archduke Stephen, I would see to it that such pcs died in the attempt. But if we were talking about a major bad guy, then yes, I would congratulate them on the deed. >> I don't understand. If the player had a good reason why he didn't like Stefan to the point of where he wanted him dead, you wouldn't let him try to kill Stefan? But you would let him kill McGregor? Why? Why can't a "good guy" die? - --- -- --Criptonite *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 01:07:35 -0500 From: Allen Barrett Subject: [MYSTARA] - DM Styles Greetings, I've been listening to the various arguements that frequent this list, but have always kept my opinions to myself. I'm afraid that I can't let this topic go without putting in my two cents worth. First of all, I think I have a good perspective on different DM styles. I currently running both a AD&D campaign and a Vampire the Mascarade campaign. I'm also a player in a fanatsy GURPS campaign. Though I'm sure thier are those that will disagree, but I think I have a pretty good perspective on what (generally) works and what doesn't. I agree that the DM should be prepared to change his plans according to what the players are doing and how they are reacting to what is going on. Sometimes, and this has happened to me, the DM will have an idea that seems fun to him, but when he starts to play it out the players aren't having fun. In that type of situation I always modify my idea on the spot. I started out planning what would happen during a session before hand, but experience has taught me that doing it like that only makes for a mediocre gaming experience. I now limit my planning to what will happen on a large scale. I'm currently gaming i the Mystara setting, with a few personal modifications. I know what the story is (how it started and how it will end), but I let the players decide how the story will unfold. I do set limitations on my players. I won't let them have complete freedom, but the limitations are lax enough that they don't notice them. In fact I've only had to veto a players decision once, and that was during character creation. A good DM will draw on the players imaginations as well as his own, but he'll do it without letting the players know what he's doing. As far as my players know, everything that they have done was completely planned. Little do they know. So it is important to not force players into a mold. The GURPS GM I play with does things like that. He dictates what everyone will play and how they will play. To me this just isn't fun, which makes me wonder why I still play. I guess it must the diversity of the GURPS system, he makes a new campaign setting every week. If he played long campaigns, I just wouldn't play. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 20:18:00 +0200 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Gareth and Loki (was: WWII) At 19.36 04/05/98 -0400, George Valencia wrote: AAt 06:32 PM 5/4/98 -0400, Steelangel wrote: OOOn Mon, 4 May 1998, George Valencia wrote: >>>might be...only Loki is the one that's smiling, if that not a hint, then i don't know what is. >>Hmm. Loki would be crazy enough to pull a stunt like that. But does it seem reasonable? >>And where did you get this info from? >Poor Wizard's Almanac. >But Loki is a tricky devil. He could be taking the credit. Loki's evil and tricky, but he's not a fool nor mad. Why should he stir the Sindhis against HIS OWN people (the Huleans who have conquered Sind)???? My hypothesis was that Gareth was Rad, "Returned from the Vortex", but apparently TSR decided otherwise... Another possibility is that Gareth is an Old One... DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 14:17:00 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber At 01:37 PM 5/5/98 EDT, you wrote: ><< As for major things like assasinating Archduke Stephen, I would see to it that such pcs died in the attempt. But if we were talking about a major bad guy, then yes, I would congratulate them on the deed. >> >I don't understand. If the player had a good reason why he didn't like Stefan >to the point of where he wanted him dead, you wouldn't let him try to kill Stefan? But you would let him kill McGregor? Why? Why can't a "good guy" die? Well, likely there will be those who disagree but, I don't allow evil parties or evil pcs. The closest I will allow would be chaotic neutral, which is a pretty darn evil alignment actually. I believe the pcs should be heroes, or if they can't stomach this, then at the very least mercenaries with a smidge of honor. I would never, unless I thought of a particularly compelling plot, give pcs a good reason to kill Archduke Stephen. But you know, I might set up some native pcs of Blackeagle Barony with a juicy attempt to kill the "tyrant Stephen". The ultimate goal would be for them to decide NOT to kill him. To realize that they were going after the wrong guy. Do you get me? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 14:22:09 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - DM Styles At 01:07 AM 5/6/98 -0500, you wrote: >Greetings, >I've been listening to the various arguements that frequent this list, but have always kept my opinions to myself. Shame on you! I'm afraid that I can't let this >topic go without putting in my two cents worth. Don't let it be the last 2 coppers! >>>I agree that the DM should be prepared to change hhis plans according to what the players are doing and how they are reacting to what is going on. I absolutely agree. Feel free to add your opinion to any discussion, especially when you agree with me. :) Sometimes, and this has happened to me, the DM will hhave an idea that seems fun to him, but when he starts to play it out the players aren't having fun. A group I play in was just forced into a "go to hell" adventure in the Planescape setting. We hated it. The DM plans on making us go again. The players are crying for more Mystara. I just sit back and smile. Basically the problem with the goto hell adventure was the linear plotline. If we did not choose just the right thing, we were killed on the spot. As I said to calm the other players, "No it is not fair, but hey! This is hell!" However in truth, I did not like the setting either. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 13:42:58 -0500 (CDT) From: Stephen Dolan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - School of Magic Graduation GACK, I missed the mail this was quoted from can anyone send it too me Darn small disk quota :( Steve On Tue, 5 May 1998, Daly wrote: >At 09:35 PM 5/4/98 -0500, you wrote: >>>>>>>"R" == Robert Fry writes: TThe types of items you can get from the sssample graduation ordeal seems pretty decently high-magic: >>elven cloak >>daggar +2 >>key allowing save vs. charm at +5 >>key equiv. to potion of luck 1/day >>key allowing free knock 1/day >>shrunken laboratory >Has anyone written their own tests? I am sure that more than just I would like to hear about it if you did! >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 19:03:29 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Items - I Hate 'Em! >I'm tempted to do a count of the Mystaran adventures and such to sssee how many magic items are lying around awiting for intrepid adventurers to snag? However, I don't need to do that to know that there are several hundred, maybe even a thousand. Now that's a lot of magic items. Even the >>B-series are loaded with magic. Yeah! I know! Thats why i strip half of them. If you give out that many, by the time you are level 24 you wont have Prince Jaggar quantities of stuff... you will be far, far, far in advance of that! Cheerz ROB "Our cruisers can't repel firepower of that magnitude!" - Admiral Ackbar *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 19:49:46 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Chronomancy, Wild Magic and other weirdness >Hi Folks! >About the Chronomancerstuff... >I trnasformed the T$R Chrono-Book, which is far to scientific to use as a new class (e.g. evolutionary degeneration Spell, gulp!), into a glantrian type circle. I did something like that, but I made in an Alphatian Path of Wizardry (I felt that the Alphatians needed a circle equivalent as well.) I actually liked the chronomancer book, the pseudo-scientific stuff... its cool when you can play a wizard who can ramble on about stuff and the other players just smile blankly and say "yes, I agree Wizard!". Thats how magic should be... bit of mystery... I like my wild mage - when you start going on about the Wave of Probability and manipulating the Equation of the Now, and how perception defines reality. Really twisted, far out stuff (which incidentally I havn't got a clue what it means either) but really impresses Joe Fighter at the front line... Its even cooler when you say "Ahh, ive got a spell that might possibly work" and the rest of the party say "Noooooooooo".... Fizban, eat your heart out. Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 19:41:55 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Items - I Hate 'Em! Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 15:02:23 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #277 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com >-Sword (normal) >-Sword with Silver Edge >-Fine Quality Sword (+1 to hit OR damage due to exceptional workmanship, not >magic) >-Fine Quality Sword With Silvered edge (possibly same sword) -Exceptional Quality Sword (+1 to hit AND damage due to workmanship, not magic) >-Exceptional Quality Sword with Silvered Edge (again possibly the same sword) >-Sword with continual light cast upon it -Blessed Sword (can hit magical creatures, blessed by cleric) -Ancient Sword +1 (bronze blade from pre Iron era, persian style design) -Sword +1 (Blade is missing tip due to final battle of last owner) -Sword +1 (Blade is Whole and sword style is favored by PC) -Sword +1 (Cast light or some other power) -Sword +1 (Flames on Command) >-Sword +1 (Named, possibly some powers, ex: Shildar - blade of the nether tribe) >-Sword +2 >... well you get the idea. I hope that helps some of you. YYazin :) Pretty much what i do. Whenever the Karameikan party run into a bronze shortsword, or some armbands with weird hieroglyphs on them, then they know they're onto a winner. And before they get those its trying to read between the words of the Darokinian merchant (oh yes, sir, the finest workmanship, crafted by one of the greatest smiths of Rockhome...). And with the Red Steel boyz it was Saragoner rapiers (Spanish steel - much stronger than out native blends...) and genuine S & W horse pistols... Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 18:44:57 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Items - I Hate 'Em! >Just Picture: The good peoples of Thyatis city wait eagerly at the colossoeum. Among them is the family of Exalcus the baker. The day is warm and they have came early to get good seats near the emperors pavilion. Aracus, the youngest son sits quietly next to his father: -'Papa, when will the Emperor come?' >-'Soon' answers the Baker, pointing a couple rows down, 'look Aracus, its General Micos Naxtarcas in his seremonial armor'. -'Oh!'Says Aracus,'wasn't it him who won the orc's of Habka?' -'Yes son, he himself killed Habka the Black with that longsword of his' [longsword +5, +2 vs orcs]. >-'Wow, its pretty' >The trumpets start blowing, and all guards rise to stand as the Emperor walks into his pavilion with his son and escorts. -'Oh! Papa, its Emperor Thincol' >The Emperor stops at the rail of his pavilion and cries in a booming woice: -'let the games began!' Rising his old but still gleaming short sword [short sword +2, The Freehart, build in the now lost village of Hargen in the county of Thyatis for the oppressed peasants under the Alphatian overlord Ira'Mhaces the Invisible, and found again just before the Revolt in a treasury of an Alphatian shopkeeper] above his head the Emperor signs for the first battle. >-'Oh! Papa! See! Hes got Freehart with him! Its the Mageslayer! Oh!' -'Yes son, calm now. It is Thincol the Brave and it is his sword.' Turning to watch the games Exalcus the Baker whispers a small crier to his God Tarastia, joining silently to the cheers of the crowd, -'long live the Emperor. Will his arm be ever strong.' I love it. And most likely very true. But I still prefer a campaign with few magic items in it. Y'know, I prefer artifacts personally. Artifacts are more of a storyline thing, than a Magic Item per se. (sez the guy who just ran the Milenian Sceptre for the 3rd time with the newbie players). While on the subject the items in the Milenian Sceptre I consider are cool - The Sword of Vix, the Shield of Olynthos the Undying, etc. etc. I like having stuff like that about. It's these amulets of proof against detection and location that I don't like - and all of their powergaming and overused ilk. Yeah, I know just how many 36th level Alphatian spellcasters there are. However... I consider this figure to be just slightly unrealistic. If this was the case, then Alphatia would have conquered the entire planet a long time ago. And Thyatis would have lost the war of independence. If you convert those 36th level spellcasters to 20th level AD+D wizards, there is no way that Mystara would be the way it is. IMC I say that the Thousand Wizards are descended from the original Thousand Wizards of Old Alphatia, and that they are generally of level 12+. And they spend the majority of their time doing politics, which is, after all, their job. It goes back to this Ethie/Glantri war thing. In D+D it isnt so much of a problem, because wizards are far more limited to what they can do (a D+D wiz had 108 spells to choose from - that was all the spells that ever existed. An AD+D wiz has about seventy at level 1 alone - and thats before you start delving into more obscure spell lists). AD+D wizards can and will radically change a campaign world. And I dont mean flying castles and other mundane stuff. The War of Wrath wouldnt have happened if there were 1000 20+ level AD+D Aeromancers on one side. I like my Mystara to be realistic, and I know full well what high level mages can do to a campaign world. Mystara is realistic - but it wouldnt be if the writers actually had a hard look at what all these mages would do to Mystara. You dont need 1000 mages - about 50 would be more than enough to drastically change the world. Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 18:58:45 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Jaggars Items? Wuss! (aside from the golems) >In addition to the ROP+1 he has >a short sword +4, >scarab of protection, >brooch of shielding, >amulet of proof against detection and location, medallion of protection AC2, >Blackmoorian lightning rod, >83 golems, >16 mechanical magens, >14 manikins, >10 living statues, >and possibly one of the orb of dragonkind artifacts. So he possible has a Krynnish artifact (which he aint going to use because the side effects on an orb of dragonkind are somewhat gross.) His golems are an army, not a magic item (though, I admit, that is gross, and would probably make Khelben Arunsun cack his boxers). So he has... a sword, which if he uses means he is in melee, ie dead. a scarab of protection. One hot item. a brooch of shielding. A crap shield spell. Hardly hot. a medallion of protection AC 2. Another hot item - but not that hot. a Blackmoorian lightning rod - a good wand of lightning, or a crap staff of power, whichever way you look at it. So, in terms of personal kit, I consider this 24th level wizard, the Self Proclaimed Hard Man of Mystara, to be remarkably underpowered. In the last Planescape bash I played - hardly overpowered, probably about average for a 12th level romp, the party of four had... two intelligent swords, one of which made the wielder immune to all magic, one sword that was ethereal and could cut through physical armour as if it wasnt there... six wands of lightning two girdles of frost giant strength a "smattering" of protective devices... (one guy had AC -19, there were two rings of fire resistance kicking about, there were two rings of wizardry and a ring of regeneration too... i can also remember cloaks of displacement, bracers AC 2, cloaks +3, rings +3...) a crystal ball with ESP Ioun stones.... about twelve of them, distributed about... must have been about 20 odd potions - including weird stuff like Oil of Timelessness... an amulet of the planes (how could I forget that one!) and god knows what else (I dont memorise what my fellow adventures have...). And this is not the result of a Monty Haul game - this is just stuff picked up in the course of adventures - mostly standard Greyhawk modules... Now I KNOW, without a doubt, that at least half of us have more magic items than Prince Jaggar, of greater power. Now that is why I consider Mystara to be a low magic item campaign. Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 12:04:33 -0700 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: [MYSTARA] - About Tolerance, and DM Styles [LONG] (was Re: Mark of Amber and Re: DM Styles) Hello all. I've noticed that the Mark of Amber thread is looking to turn into another long set of disagreements between the individuals in group A that feel one way about how DM's should run adventures and the individuals in group B that feel another way. I also saw that Jeff Daly has made a conscious effort to stem the flow of recriminations by starting an offshoot thread aimed at discussing this topic in a mature and meaningful way. Let's try to take his advice, and also remember that everyone is different, and everyone is entitled to their own opinion -- even if it is different from yours! I have some comments I've been meaning to make to the list at large on the topic of problematic threads and messages, and this seems like as good a time as any. I'm hoping that you'll all consider them in the light they were intended -- constructive commentary/criticism. After I've made them, I'll come back to the 'DM Styles' issue that prompted this post in the first place. :-) The MML has, in the past, been a very tolerant place, where different ideas about our favourite Fantasy World and the oD&D RPG system have been greeted with interest and enthusiasm. Recently, however, something 'different' in a not-so-good-way seeped into the mix, and we haven't really been able to shake the after effects. Incendiary comments have risen. Arguments are often becoming more personal. New-comers are being treated offhandedly or even with hostility. And Leroy, the list owner, has commented on the TSR message board that he feels there is a need for him to monitor the threads more closely for out-of-control situations -- something he didn't have to do much of before. Personally, I feel bad that Leroy now feels the need to police the posts more than he has had to in the past. And I think this clearly indicates that those of us who enjoy the MML need to begin policing ourselves a bit more. If any of us feel uncomfortable or badly about something that has occured on the list each of us should get in the habit of doing something about it - -- Write to the perpetrator directly (NOT the list) or send Leroy a private note if you feel uncomfortable raising the issue yourself. This way you are dealing with the issue in a polite, mature manner. Only if is something that involves a lot of people, so that private notes would be inefficient, should you consider writing directly to the list. And then, if you do it, don't name names (something, I must admit, even I have been guilty of in the past) and be as tactful and polite as possible. You want to help clear up the problem, not make it worse. Always remember the golden rule: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" -- in other words, don't flame, don't call names, and be careful that you don't sound like you think other readers are inferior in any way. Remember, also, that the MML is an international list, and English is not the first language for many of our members. Problems with grammer and whatnot are likely to occur which can make communication more difficult. We should also remember that, since we should all be doing our best not to insult each other, anything that seems like an insulting comment was probably NOT meant to be that way. If you, instead, assume it was a missunderstanding on your part of what the other was trying to say, and *politely* ask for clarification, the overall tone of several messages on this list would improve significantly! :-) The MML now has over 200 members and that has, obviously, caused changes in how it operates. More frequently, there will be threads that individual readers are not interested in -- threads that may go on for long periods of time as well. It's what you should expect from a growing Mailing List, since others may be keenly interested in debating something you could care less about. Just delete the items you are uninterested in and carry on. There will also be more questions from new comers that long-time members have seen again, and again. Remember, though, we were all "newbies" once. It may be an old question to us, but it is new to them. Answer their questions politely -- I wouldn't want to wade through years of our archives just to find out if the burning question I have has already been answered! More members also means more new ideas, and we all have different desires about how our personal Mystara will march forward. Many of us are interested in hearing new ideas about Mystara that wouldn't necessarily fit into the Timelines and History that TSR has written. Many of us are, instead, interested in fitting all the puzzle pieces together into a comprehensive whole. If you aren't interested in ideas and expansions that go against the written history, then just delete posts on those topics. If you aren't interested in figuring out how to explain away inconsistencies or how to fit new ideas into TSR's writings, then delete those! Sending messages that say "What you wrote doesn't fit in with my vision and so I'm not going to use it" wastes time and bandwidth. On the other hand, sending a message that says "I can see the merits in your idea, although I don't know if I'd use it myself. Can you explain more about aspect A, or concept X? Have you considered adding idea M to all that?" will increase the benefits of the idea for everyone. With all the above said, the one thing that AMAZES me the most about the MML is the extremly high "Signal-To-Noise" ratio it still has. I can't begin to tell you how many mailing lists and newsgroups I've stopped reading simply because of how high the 'noise' level was -- posts that degenerated into immature sexual innuendo, dumb 'in jokes' between long time subscribers, or other, basicly useless, off-topic nonsense. The MML does not seem to have that, as most posts (even the argumentative ones) are usually still on-topic concerning Mystara or oD&D. I am pleased to be a part of it because of that. We all subscribe to the MML because we love Mystara or love oD&D or both. It is to our BENEFIT to encourage new people to join and share their ideas with us. It is also to our benefit to encourage long-time subscribers to stay with us, and add their 'wisdom' to renewed discussion topics. I hope we can all make the effort to keep this a fun, interesting place to interact with one another and our favourite game. Whew. That was long winded. Again, I hope everyone takes that in the light it was intended and thinks about what I've said. Remember, it always works out best if we treat each other with mutal respect. :-) Going back to the original Topic that prompted me to send all this: What is the Role of the DM in an RPG? It is true that a DM should probably let their PC's have as much freedom as they can, allowing the characters to make as many personal decisions on route as they can. However, it is also true that, even when multiple endings are provided, the DM may still need to steer the group in a particular direction, or there may end up being no adventure at all. Any given DM will tend towards more-or-less freedom vs. more-or-less steering, based on their personal preference, the gaming styles of their players, the amount of experience they have as a DM, the amount of preparation for alternatives are given in the adenture they are presenting. No one method is 'wrong' -- as long as BOTH the DM and the Players are having fun. The game will die prematurely if this is not the case, no matter WHAT style of play the DM or Players use. Personally, I prefer to steer a little, giving hints or suggestions that a particular path would be preferable over another, but then I let them make as many decisions as possible once they're going in the general direction I need them to go in order to make an Adventure idea work. If I always let them do whatever they thought of, half my plans and preparations would be for naught, and then where would I be -- following a group of PC's going randomly in directions I have no plans for. I'm not good enough at 'off the cuff' stuff to let them do that. If I did, they will end up wandering around endlessly without anything exciting happening, and then we'd all end up wasting our time. So, instead, I spend a significant amount of time trying to organize things to create a game that all my Players will enjoy, and I give them clues and hints that will encourage them to go where they will have the most fun because they will then be interacting with the things I have prepared for them. As an example, I just recently ran a modified version of "The Lost Seneschal" from PC1 and, heaven forbid, my PC's attacked Churly McTaerdi (a 'robin hood' type) and his band! I had expected them to try to talk their way out of it, learning some important information in the process. Instead, they went with the 'shoot first, ask questions later' approach and then then turned him in to the Authorities!!! Urk! Well, I didn't want Churly getting hanged (I have plans for him down the road), so I let them find out from the forest people how helpful Churly really was to the local woods folk, and the PC's ended up putting in a good word for him with the Lord of Farstead. The PC's did make their own decisions, but I still 'pushed' them to see the path I wanted them to take. Its all a part of the DM's job. :-) And now I'm hope they've learned that sometimes talking first is better than shooting first -- I plan to run them through the U1-3 series, and if they treat it the same way, they will sadly kill off the entire lizard man colony without discovering that they aren't the bad-guys here. Ah well, we'll see where they go when they get there, won't we? :-) Jenni A. M. Merrifield - -=> strawberrJAMM <=- - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield http://www.jamm.com/jenni/home.html - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- strawberry@jamm.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #277 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 17:22:25 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #278 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Tuesday, May 5 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 278 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth and Loki (was: WWII) Re: [MYSTARA] - About Tolerance, and DM Styles [LONG] (was Re: Mark of Amber and Re: DM Styles) Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber Re: [MYSTARA] - Jaggars Items? Wuss! (aside from the golems) Re: [MYSTARA] - About Tolerance, and DM Styles [LONG] (was Re: Mark of Amber and Re: DM Styles) Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth (was: WWII) Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth (was: WWII) Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth (was: WWII) Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth and Loki (was: WWII) Re: [MYSTARA] - Jaggars Items? Wuss! (aside from the golems) [MYSTARA] - misc. [MYSTARA] - Gareth Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mark of Amber Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 15:05:18 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth and Loki (was: WWII) At 08:18 PM 5/5/98 +0200, you wrote: >At 19.36 04/05/98 -0400, George Valencia wrote: AAAt 06:32 PM 5/4/98 -0400, Steelangel wrote: OOOOn Mon, 4 May 1998, George Valencia wrote: >>>>might be...only Loki is the one that's smiling, if that not a hint, then i don't know what is. >>>Hmm. Loki would be crazy enough to pull a stunt like that. But does it seem reasonable? >>>And where did you get this info from? >>Poor Wizard's Almanac. >>But Loki is a tricky devil. He could be taking the credit. >Loki's evil and tricky, but he's not a fool nor mad. Why should he stir the Sindhis against HIS OWN people (the Huleans who have conquered Sind)???? >My hypothesis was that Gareth was Rad, "Returned from the Vortex", but apparently TSR decided otherwise... Another possibility is that Gareth is an Old One... Oh, I don't know...Gareth could still be Rad. Perhaps Rad was starting to get on the Old Ones' nerves so they set up the whole Mark of Amber thing... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 15:20:32 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - About Tolerance, and DM Styles [LONG] (was Re: Mark of Amber and Re: DM Styles) At 12:04 PM 5/5/98 -0700, you wrote: >Hello all. >I've noticed that the Mark of Amber thread is looking to turn into another long set of disagreements between the individuals in group A that feel one way about how DM's should run adventures and the individuals in group B that feel another way. I also saw that Jeff Daly has made a conscious effort to stem the flow of recriminations by starting an offshoot thread aimed at discussing this topic in a mature and meaningful way. Let's try to take his advice, and also remember that everyone is different, and everyone is entitled to their own opinion -- even if it is different from yours! >I have some comments I've been meaning to make to the list at large on the topic of problematic threads and messages, and this seems like as good a time as any. I'm hoping that you'll all consider them in the light they were intended -- constructive commentary/criticism. After I've made them, I'll come back to the 'DM Styles' issue that prompted this post in the first place. :-) I don't know how Jenni feels about this, but I nominate her to be the Official Mom of the list. Her calm rational manner has brought me up short several times. I would like to also support her in the "Talk privately to the person" comment. A direct, private message can do alot to relieve tension then a vague innuendo in public. > Well I tried that tag on my page and it did not do anything. Oh well... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 15:17:12 EDT From: CRlPTONITE Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber << Well, likely there will be those who disagree but, I don't allow evil parties or evil pcs. The closest I will allow would be chaotic neutral, which is a pretty darn evil alignment actually. >> No, there are 3 "pretty darn evil" alignments. They are the evil ones. A chaotic neutral character is nothing like an evil character. << I believe the pcs should be heroes, or if they can't stomach this, then at the very least mercenaries with a smidge of honor. >> A hero to one side is an enemy to the opposite side. Etienne, a hero of Glantrians, is not looked upon as a hero by most Alphatians. Hero is a very relative term. What would you do if a Glantrian wanted to kill an Alphatian leader or an Alphatian tried to kill a Glantrian one? << I would never, unless I thought of a particularly compelling plot, give pcs a good reason to kill Archduke Stephen. >> Any public person has lovers and haters. In the US it's not uncommon for the majority of the public to vote in a president, then someone or some group tries to assassinate him. From John F. Kennedy, to Martin Luther King, to Abraham Lincoln, to Ghandi, to Jesus Christ, people always have a reason to kill someone... no matter how loved they are by the majority. In King Stefans case, a Hendriks or Bargle follower might want him dead. A Thyatin group mad that Karameikos sold them out during WotI may want him dead. A hardcore Traladarian who doesn't want to see the races mixed may want Stefan dead. A high-ranking Karameikan who thinks he or she could do a better job at running the country may want to kill Stefan. It wouldn't be too hard to get to him anyways. The halflings didn't have much trouble capturing him. - --- -- --Criptonite *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 16:08:08 EDT From: CRlPTONITE Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Jaggars Items? Wuss! (aside from the golems) >So he has... >a sword, which if he uses means he is in melee, ie dead. What are you talking abou ie. dead??? He has used his sword plenty of times in battle and hes doing fine. Remember he is a military wizard. >a scarab of protection. One hot item. >a brooch of shielding. A crap shield spell. Hardly hot. a medallion of protection AC 2. Another hot item - but not that hot. a Blackmoorian lightning rod - a good wand of lightning, or a crap staff of power, whichever way you look at it. >So, in terms of personal kit, I consider this 24th level wizard, the Self Proclaimed Hard Man of Mystara, to be remarkably underpowered. He proclaimed himself what? when? >In the last Planescape bash I played - hardly overpowered, probably about average for a 12th level romp, the party of four had... Overpowered is a matter of opinion. Mine differs severly >two intelligent swords In AD&D (Planescape) intelligent swords can only be created if a wizard puts his lifeforce in the weapon before he dies. Having 2 of these in your group is ridiculous. >one of which made the wielder immune to all magic That's a new one. The weapon doesn't exist and even as a unique item it would be nearly impossible to create in the 1st place. >one sword that was ethereal and could cut through physical armour as if it wasnt there... >six wands of lightning >two girdles of frost giant strength >a "smattering" of protective devices... (one guy had AC -19 - -19????? That must have been fun to roleplay. A character who cant be hurt. >, there were two rings of fire resistance kicking about, there were two rings of wizardry >and a ring of regeneration too... i can also remember cloaks of displacement, bracers AC 2, cloaks +3, rings +3...) That's crazy. Well, you can't wear more than 2 magical rings at a time. Plus, when wearing cloaks, rings and bracers of protection you can't just add all the bonus's together. The rules won't let you do that. That's why no one else has a -19 AC. >a crystal ball with ESP >Ioun stones.... about twelve of them, distributed about... must have been about 20 odd potions - including weird stuff like Oil of Timelessness... >an amulet of the planes (how could I forget that one!) and god knows what else (I dont memorise what my fellow adventures have...). This was horribly overdone. I doubt any 12th level character in any campaign world has items like those guys do. >And this is not the result of a Monty Haul game - this is just stuff picked up in the course of adventures - mostly standard Greyhawk modules... Which campaign was this. You started off saying it was Planescape. >Now I KNOW, without a doubt, that at least half of us have more magic items than Prince Jaggar, of greater power. Now that is why I consider Mystara to be a low magic item campaign. Anyone can have a campaign where the DM lets the PCs have a million items. This happened in you PS or GH campaign and it can easily happen in a Mystara campaign. If you want to compare Oearth to Mystara to Toril etc... you would have to compare the magical items the established NPCs have, not the items the PCs have. - --- -- --Criptonite *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 03:13:47 -0500 From: Allen Barrett Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - About Tolerance, and DM Styles [LONG] (was Re: Mark of Amber and Re: DM Styles) Well, I guess I'll have to get a little more vocal. It's nice to know that thier are still people out there that don't ""FLAME"" at every opportunity. I've had bad experiences with just that sort of thing. Hence, I don't use ICQ and seldom frequent chat rooms. Anyway, we all have to agree that thier is no "right" way to DM. Likewise, thier is no "right" way to roleplay. However, on the same token thier are "wrong ways to do both. If you're not having fun, if you cause other poeple to not have fun, or if your technique is hurtfull or damaging in any way you are doing something wrong no matter how you try to look at it. With that, I think I want to bring up another question. Does anyone else dream, and I mean literally, thier campaigns. Every campaign I've ever ran has been the result of a vivid dream. So I wake up with an entire six month campaign already planned out. That's the reason I'm so lax with my DM style. I dream the general story, and I call them stories because I write them out as books when the campaign is finished, then let my players fill in the details like: how, and who. I can come up with responses "off-the-cuff" because I've already dreamed the when, where, and why. Is there anyone else who does something similiar? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 16:09:42 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth (was: WWII) On Tue, 5 May 1998, [iso-8859-1] Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: >to have a sponsor. Meaning that at least one Immortal would have to know about it. (Loki? Nah, he is too smart to do something like that.) Benekander didn't acheive immortality the normal way. He was trasmogrified into an immortal at the same time the Nucleus became an artifact. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 16:11:30 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth (was: WWII) On Tue, 5 May 1998, Daly wrote: >mystical declaration rather than admitting "Hey guys, I am just a sissy initiate, but I don't think you should be interfering so much with the mortals. They are my friends" *Benekendar proceeds to wipe his nose on his sleeve* LOL. I can't picture Benekander doing that, but your arguement seems rational, given Ben's current state of "not very powerful"-ness. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 16:18:57 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth (was: WWII) On Tue, 5 May 1998, Daly wrote: >whether he really came from the Vortex or not is unimportant. The Vortex is the only barrier to the Immortals. It hides the 6th dimensions and beyond and of course the Old Ones. So even if it is a known Immortal he would likely use such a barrier to explain his sudden appearance. Arik would ba a bad choice. He's not very subtle in the least. Anyone remember that castle of statues? Arik wouldn't be a good choice for Gareth. Gareth starts small, and builds. He sounds more akin to Thanatos' or Loki's schemings, if he were chaotic. Sinbad is out. He may have come from the vortex, but I don't think he's one to deal with mortals. He seems to preoccupied with travelling the dimensions. I'd say Benekander is the best choice. He wasn't too pleased with the immortals in WotI, and Gareth as a pseudonym hides his obvious initiatehood. Just a thought. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 16:23:55 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth and Loki (was: WWII) On Tue, 5 May 1998, DM wrote: >apparently TSR decided otherwise... Another possibility is that Gareth is an Old One... Great Rafiel, no. Maybe an Old one who gave up his status to become an immortal again, but An Old one on the prime plane, pandering to mortals? That's about as outlandish as saying Alphatia didn't sink, but actually has a huge Sphere of Invisibility about it. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 21:46:07 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Jaggars Items? Wuss! (aside from the golems) >>So he has... >>a sword, which if he uses means he is in melee, ie dead. >What are you talking abou ie. dead??? >He has used his sword plenty of times in battle and hes doing fine. Remember he is a military wizard. Military wizard with a +4 sword or not, Jags is dead against a competent fighter in melee. He is, after all, a mage. >>In the last Planescape bash I played - hardly overpowered, probably about average for a 12th level romp, the party of four had... >Overpowered is a matter of opinion. Mine differs severly >>two intelligent swords >In AD&D (Planescape) intelligent swords can only be created if a wizard puts >his lifeforce in the weapon before he dies. Having 2 of these in your group >is ridiculous. >>one of which made the wielder immune to all magic TThat's a new one. The weapon doesn't exist and even as a unique item it would >be nearly impossible to create in the 1st place. ooone sword that was ethereal and could cut through physical armour as if it wasnt there... >>six wands of lightning >>two girdles of frost giant strength >>a "smattering" of protective devices... (one guy had AC -19 >-19????? That must have been fun to roleplay. A character who cant be hurt. Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 17:22:25 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #278 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com Thats what I said too, when he wanted to play that character in my beluvved Red Steel setting. >>, there were two rings of fire resistance kicking about, there were two rings of wizardry >>and a ring of regeneration too... i can also remember cloaks of displacement, bracers AC 2, cloaks +3, rings +3...) >That's crazy. Well, you can't wear more than 2 magical rings at a time. Plus, when wearing cloaks, rings and bracers of protection you can't just add >all the bonus's together. The rules won't let you do that. That's why no one >else has a -19 AC. Well, that was for the entire party, not just one character. And he was a 1st edition AD+D character, where powergaming like that seemed to be encouraged (i think you could get away with stacking items like that in 1st ed). I prefer 2nd ed - more choice than in D+D, not so rampantly powergaming as 1st ed... >This was horribly overdone. I doubt any 12th level character in any campaign >world has items like those guys do. >>And this is not the result of a Monty Haul game - this is just stuff picked up in the course of adventures - mostly standard Greyhawk modules... >Which campaign was this. You started off saying it was Planescape. Well, it started off Greyhawk, then as the levels racked up moved on to Spelljammer and finally Planescape - tho there is still much prime adventuring going on. And the adventures were mostly old stock adventures (the Steading of the Hill Giant Chief, the Secret of Salt Marsh, the Queen of the Demonweb Pits etc. etc.) with a few new ones (the Egg of the Phoenix). As for the items - well, thats just the way the cookie crumbles when you play lots and lots of TSR modules... I dont like it either!!!! Its not my campaign... but having played in several peoples campaigns now I think they generally lean towards the high powered example given above... This is why i am fanatical on the subject of Be Tight on Magic Items. I have been burned... Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 19:08:27 +0200 From: Peter Balazs Subject: [MYSTARA] - misc. Hi! IŽm still just reding the Mystara-Mails very sparsely, but: >So this is its uniqueness: Mystara is a very variegated setting, and each of the nations of Mystara has its own "Elminster", though no Ultimate Elminster exists. Right! ThatŽs one of the reason I love Mystara. >I mean, if you live in FR, you know you'll never be like Elminster: he'll be always more powerful than anybody else (i think this is the common belief, though i admit i never played in FR so i may be wrong). In Mystara, PCs CAN be competitive at various levels, and can ultimately become one of those personalities who write the history of the world (or the history of one country). And also the opposite holds true! Even with very powerfull PCs there will certainly aways be a NPC, who is just as powerfull. >Sometimes, and this has happened to me, the DM will have an idea that seems fun to him, but when he starts to play it out the players aren't having fun. In that type of situation I always modify my idea on the spot. I started out planning what would happen during a session before hand, but experience has taught me that doing it like that only makes for a mediocre gaming experience. Right! I also plan only the outline of the adventure. i think that is alos more fun also for the DM! I never now beforehand, hwat will happen. i often also donŽt know, how a NPC will react, as I also decide that during the game! ************************************************************ Peter "Mr. XXL" Balazs Wurlitzerg. 37/12 1160 Wien a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs ************************************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 22:16:21 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: [MYSTARA] - Gareth At 15.09 04/05/98 PDT, George Valencia wrote: >First of all, if you read the first incident involving a sindhi's dream of seeing Gareth. When the immortal in Pandius ask as to who Gareth might be...only Loki is the one that's smiling, if that not a hint, then i don't know what is. But Loki (Bozdogan) is also the Patron of Hule and probably the Masters' sponsor... mmmh.. interesting. What about the following plot (note, I don't like it). Hule's patron is Bozdogan, Master of Deceit (i.e. Loki). Bozdogan's interest is "sonquest by deceit" (from PWA). Let's suppose that the Master of Hule attained immortality during WotI sponsored by Bozdogan/Loki. During WotI the Master's forces attacked Darokin and occupied Sind, but they were defeated in Darokin and their hold on Sind doesn't look very strong. So the Master,as Gareth, decides to firmly conquer Sind (and later Darokin) by deceit. His cleric in Sind help the Freedom Warrior against the Huleans, so that Gareth looks as a good anti-Hulean Immortal, but in truth he is no less than the hated Master of Hule. Gareth's preaching of "Immortal non-intervention" is just a way to attract more followers, so that worship of Gareth may quickly extend to all the KW. I know it looks a very twisted plot (a la Herve), but it fits well with the Hulean attitude of conquest by deceit. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 20:25:47 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber At 19.20 04/05/98 EDT, Inconu wrote: >That's ridiculous. If that was the case, then you could do the same for any module/adventure for the PCs. Why (as a DM) would you run the whole adventure knowing previously the outcome of the events regarless to what the PCs did. Let's see. First, usually I don't run TSR modules, but I prefer to build my own adventures. Before each game session I usually set up 3 or 4 adventures, unless we're still running and adventure from the previous session, and usually the PCs choose one of those adventures, but not always and I have to improvise. Anyway I never force them into doing something I want, unless the PC are under someone else command (e.g. during military adventures). Once in Glantri an armorer gave to a PC fake crowns, when my PC discovered it he went back to the armorer's shop and killed him, than he fled away killing a couple of guards. I didn't expected that, I had to improvise, anyway we all had fun looking at how the PC tried to leave the city while Graez city guards tried to catch him. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 20:32:50 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber At 22.29 04/05/98 EDT, CRlPTONITE wrote: >Maybe that's how it is in your adventures. But in a good adventure the DM can't know the outcome. What you are doing is writing a story and letting the >players act out a part in it. That's called roll-playing. Role-playing is more like one of those "choose-your-own-adventure" books. It starts in one place but it could end up going anywhere. D&D is all about role-playing. That's what makes it fun in the first place. How can the DM not know the outcome? If the DM writes the adventures he has to know the whole plot and the possible outcomes, what he doesn't know is how the PC will behave and which outcome will be the real one, but he's not completely clueless about it. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com DM in City Of The Stars - Mystaran Almanac Assistant Leader of Privateers - Student of Aerospace Enginnering Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 21:43:21 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber At 07.19 05/05/98 EDT, Inconu wrote: >In all the years I've DMed the PCs seem to make a habbit of changing whatever i've though the most likely ending would be. True. >You never know how the adventure >will end. It's not as if the PCs are stuck in a two-dimensional video game and >there's a start and an ending. They can do anything and go anywhere. You might >have your ideas as to the probable outcome of the adventure, but when you actually sit down and play, the PCs become a huge variable in the story. That's why I never write down everything and leave room for improvisation. >How else can you run an adventure? There's no way for the players to know what >the DM has in store for them, and there's no way for the DM to know what the PCs will do in each and every situation of the adventure. A DM won't know _exactly_ what the PCs will do, but he'll more or less know what they're supposed to do. If the PCs has to attack a Glantrian castle, they probably won't go sea fishing in Ierendi and if they do, then this is another adventure. >Right. That's why a DM has to spend lots of time preparing his adventures and not allowing the unknown to stop him. But since a DM cannot foresee everything, unless he's native of Yavdlom, it's probably better if he leaves ample room for improvisation in his adventures plot. BTW: what do you mean by "a DM has to spend lots of time preparing his adventures and not allowing the unknown to stop him"? Do you prepare very detailed adventures? And does it not constrast with giving maximum freedom af action to the PC? - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 22:02:16 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mark of Amber At 11.59 05/05/98 EDT, CRlPTONITE wrote: ><< It's up to the DM to provide the illusion that players have made a huge impact on the world. >> I agree. >No it's not! The point of role playing isn't to trick the other players. It's not to fool them into believing that what they are doing is important to Mystara when it's not. It's just a game. Let them have some fun. I once was a player in Forgotten Realms. I had fun controlling my gnome PC and having him adventuring with his group, but I didn't care about his impact on the world. My character was the important thing, not the world around him. >If an >intelligent player finds a chink in Karameikos's armor and discovers a way to assassinate Stefan, let it happen. The DMs job is to adapt. That's what makes it so difficult to be a DM. Experienced DMs pride themselves on adaptability. Sure. I'll let him kill Stefan but... 1) I'll have the character arrested and sentenced to death ASAP. 2) I'll have King Stefan raised by his cleric immediately. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 20:35:52 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber At 07.12 05/05/98 EDT, Inconu wrote: >>Allowing them to do what's in their power to do is fine. Question is what level is that? I wouldn't let 6th level characters determine the path the world takes and that's what Mark of Amber does to a small degree. 15th to 20th would be more suited to such world implications. >Well, if this is your opinion, then you should adjust the module to fit your higher level PCs better. I would rather allow them to run that module, probably they won't succeed. I rarely design my adventures on the current PC level, if they want to go dragon-bashing with 1st level characters there's no problem, but I doubt they'll come back alive. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 21:54:29 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber At 11.58 05/05/98 EDT, CRlPTONITE wrote: RRoll-playing is giving the player a >character's part to act out. Role-playing is giving the player a character to >control. If the DM knows the beginning AND the end of the adventure, he is only letting the player roll-play. Players control the character, DMs control the world. >I haven't played with you, but I have played with DMs who run adventures similar to the way you describe yours. The DM never thinks anything is wrong because the players have no idea what the outcome will be. The DM thinks that >the players will love their story. The problem is that the players feel trapped. They can't do what they want to do. If they want to wander off the road the PC will see horde of dragons, a mountain chain, an ocean, something that will turn them back onto the road. The players will quickly figure out what the DM is doing and they will become frustrated. I once had a PC who had >a bad feeling about the building he was walking into. I had my character stop >to think about the situation. The DM said "No, you wouldn't do that." My character had to go in the building and get captured because that was part of the DMs story. He never DMed again. This is just bad DMing. This is very different from what I said about Mark of Amber. I think a clever DM should run game session in such a way that players _feel_ free to do what they want to do, even if they actually aren't completely free. For example: I want my PCs to meet a certain NPC in Darokin City, but my PC decide to go to Akesoli instead. What can I do? 1) Prevent them from reaching Akesoli (earthquake, war, bad weather, dragons...) 2) Move my NPC to Akesoli and have the PCs meet him there. 1 is bad DMing, 2 is good DMing. In both cases players aren't completely free to do what they want. Hope I explained myself clearly. PS: there's also 3, delete the encounter and improvise, but then why should I write my adventures in the first place? - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #278 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 21:12:22 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #279 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Tuesday, May 5 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 279 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sea of Dread Re: [MYSTARA] - Chronomancy Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth and Loki (was: WWII) Re: [MYSTARA] - Jaggars In Melee [MYSTARA] - To clear up a misunderstanding Re: [MYSTARA] - About Tolerance, and DM Styles [LONG] (was Re: Mark of Amber and Re: DM Styles) Re: [MYSTARA] - Jaggars Items? Wuss! (aside from the golems) Re: [MYSTARA] - Sea of Dread Re: [MYSTARA] - About Tolerance Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR Boards (was: Rakasta Errata) Re: [MYSTARA] - DM Styles Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber Re: [MYSTARA] - About Tolerance Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mark of Amber Re: [MYSTARA] - Jaggars In Melee Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber Re: [MYSTARA] - AOL Boards Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mark of Amber Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 14:24:12 -0700 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sea of Dread At 12:31 PM 5/2/98 EDT, Kaviyd wrote: >In a message dated 98-05-01 15:02:46 EDT, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no writes: >>Thanegioth Archipelago? >>Champions of Mystara, boxed set gives you some additional info. Otherwise you will have to flesh out the rest yourself, unless someone in here can help you out. Tarzan might be a good source of inspiration though. >I don't recall seeing much about that archipelago in that boxed set. >A better resource would be the modules already cited -- especially X1, "Isle of Dread". No, there isn't much about Thanegioth in Champions of Mystara. However, the original question is a serious flashback for me -- the very first post I ever made to the MML was about this archepeligo. I got some interesting responses (privately) but don't remember all of them now. I do remember someone including a map drawn using ASCII characters of the islands -- I may even still have it, but it'll have to wait until I get home. One thing I do remember is that there is a Solo Adventure module which details more of the islands in this archepeligo. Does anyone remember which one it was? Jenni PS: I just searched out the archives, checking to see if any of the responses were posted publicly, however, I specifically asked for private responses because one of my players had also joined at that time. What I discovered was that my first message was in v01.n19, from Sunday, 26 November 1995 (URL: http://www.io.com/~ftp/mailing-lists/mystara-digest/v01.n019.) Zoinks! I /HAVE/ been here a long time... -JAMM - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield http://www.jamm.com/jenni/home.html - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- strawberry@jamm.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 14:14:43 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Chronomancy >For those who might not know...Chronomancy is the art of using magic to manipulate time. Anyone use it? How about also having the High Priest of Kronos, or Yav be granted with the gift of chronomancy, since their immortals' portfolio is related to time itself. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 23:30:18 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth and Loki (was: WWII) At 20.18 05/05/98 +0200, DM wrote: >Loki's evil and tricky, but he's not a fool nor mad. Why should he stir the Sindhis against HIS OWN people (the Huleans who have conquered Sind)???? To let Sindhis believe that Gareth is a friend and thus having them worshipping Gareth. This can be a subtle way of conquering Sind. Remember Bozdogan (Loki) golden rule: "conquest by deceit". I explained this better in a previous post. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 17:34:47 EDT From: CRlPTONITE Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Jaggars In Melee >Military wizard with a +4 sword or not, Jags is dead against a competent fighter in melee. He is, after all, a mage. He is 24th level. That means 5 weapon proficiency slots going by the AD&D method. He's probably a grand master with his +4 sword. Plus in battle he rides one of his pegasi. And if he's still losing his Blackmoor lightning rod will do 20d6 damage, 42 times. Not to mention his melee spells. Imprisonment for example. Even in a melee fight Jaggar's looking pretty tough. - --- -- --Criptonite *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 18:03:37 EDT From: Inconu Subject: [MYSTARA] - To clear up a misunderstanding >I would say the words "ridiculous" and "newbie" were definitely inflammatory. But I wonder if this is a difference in language perhaps? Perhaps the writer did not realize how harsh his tone sounded? I just used the words as i know what they mean. It seems as if sometimes i do offend people with my choice of words, but no one ever asks if they aren't sure of my meaning. When i stated ridiculous and newbie, it was my honest opinion and not meant to be hostile. Instead of assuming what i mean i don't see why some just don't inquire of my true intentions..... - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 00:07:41 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - About Tolerance, and DM Styles [LONG] (was Re: Mark of Amber and Re: DM Styles) At 12.04 05/05/98 -0700, Jenni A. M. Merrifield wrote: AArguments are often becoming more personal. New-comers are being treated offhandedly or even with hostility. >There will also be more questions from new comers that long-time members have seen again, and again. Remember, though, we were all "newbies" once. It may be an old question to us, but it is new to them. Answer their questions politely -- I wouldn't want to wade through years of our archives just to find out if the burning question I have has already been answered! What about preparing something to better welcome newcomers to the list? For example, we could send to each newbie Herve's FAQ and a guide to the project currently going on (NetAlmanac, MChina, Cynidicea, Alphatia Gaz, SaveMystara...). I think this would greatly help newbies. BTW: I always try to contact Italians newbies and explain them what's going on on the, where they can find Mystara stuff on the net and so on. Maybe the other non-americans can do something similar with their fellow countrymen. Just my two Brights. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com DM in City Of The Stars - Mystaran Almanac Assistant Leader of Privateers - Student of Aerospace Enginnering Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 18:30:47 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Jaggars Items? Wuss! (aside from the golems) >His golems are an army, not a magic item (though, I admit, that is gross, and would probably make Khelben Arunsun cack his boxers). They are not an army. They were all created magically. They really can't be related to an army in any way Jaggar uses them. They are magical items. >So he has... >a sword, which if he uses means he is in melee, ie dead. Why would he die? He's a 20+ level mage with a very powerfull magical sword. Isn't that a gross combination? >a scarab of protection. One hot item. >a brooch of shielding. A crap shield spell. Hardly hot. a medallion of protection AC 2. Another hot item - but not that hot. >a Blackmoorian lightning rod - a good wand of lightning, or a crap staff of power, whichever way you look at it. The point is that he has many magical items to his aid. >So, in terms of personal kit, I consider this 24th level wizard, the Self Proclaimed Hard Man of Mystara, to be remarkably underpowered. I beg to differ with you here. Jaggar has all those items, is a fifth-circle Dracologist (which i hope we all know what it means now), has an army of war wizards, and holds controll over a Principality in the most powerfull nation of the known world. Not to bad IMO. It seems like he holds quite a bit of power to me. >In the last Planescape bash I played - hardly overpowered, probably about average for a 12th level romp, the party of four had... >And this is not the result of a Monty Haul game - this is just stuff picked up in the course of adventures - mostly standard Greyhawk modules... That seems extremely excessive to me. Didn't it ever seem as if the campaign was getting out of hand? Why wouldn't the DM have had more controll over the players here? >Now I KNOW, without a doubt, that at least half of us have more magic items than Prince Jaggar, of greater power. Now that is why I consider Mystara to be a low magic item campaign. Check my characters all off in the bottom half of us, because none of my characters can compare to a tenth of his stash. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 18:43:50 EDT From: Magesmiley Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sea of Dread In a message dated 98-05-05 17:48:53 EDT, you write: << One thing I do remember is that there is a Solo Adventure module which details more of the islands in this archepeligo. Does anyone remember which one it was? >> Think it was probably XSOLO (Lathan's Gold was the title I think). - -Mage *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 18:50:17 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - About Tolerance >Personally, I feel bad that Leroy now feels the need to police the posts more than he has had to in the past. And I think this clearly indicates that those of us who enjoy the MML need to begin policing ourselves a bit more. I think it's because of how the list is much more massive than in the past. We have over 200 members here now. Obviously with the more people here there will be changes. I'm sure that everyone that's been on here for a long time has seen the increase of mail flow as well. There used to be only one or two mails a week. More people has lead to more discussions which in turn lead to more ideas, disagreements, and larger "teams" on other sides. Leroy has always seemed to have been pretty well on top of things in problems concerning the list. He intervenes when he thinks something has gone too far, and when he does, the problem ends right there and then with no questions......and usually there's even apologies to the host. I don't see this as a problem until Leroy states it is, and if he corrects me and tells me to stop posting to the Mark of Amber subject, then i'd be glad to. >If any of us feel uncomfortable or badly about something that has occured on the list each of us should get in the habit of doing something about it -- Write to the perpetrator directly (NOT the list) or send Leroy a private note if you feel uncomfortable raising the issue yourself. This way you are dealing with the issue in a polite, mature manner. I agree with you on this. I've settled many disputes in private email. I also believe however, that emailing Leroy with this is not needed unless private email is a failure. But that's more under the lines of Leroy to address, and not any of us to. >Remember, also, that the MML is an international list, and English is not the first language for many of our members. Problems with grammer and whatnot are likely to occur which can make communication more difficult. That goes without saying. We've never had a major problem with this in the past..... >We should also remember that, since we should all be doing our best not to insult each other, anything that seems like an insulting comment was probably NOT meant to be that way. If you, instead, assume it was a missunderstanding on your part of what the other was trying to say, and *politely* ask for clarification, the overall tone of several messages on this list would improve significantly! :-) I believe this is a matter to be addressed, as i've encountered this problem recently....Only to a small degree, but the problem does exist on the list. Clarification should also be off the list posts, as no one really cares about it other than the two parties in dispute. >Whew. That was long winded. Again, I hope everyone takes that in the light it was intended and thinks about what I've said. Remember, it always works out best if we treat each other with mutal respect. :-) A well put post. I hope it helps things around here..... - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 18:52:20 EDT From: LandoTW Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR Boards (was: Rakasta Errata) << A further comment: TSR Boards has been built with one pourpose in mind IMHO, substituting the AOL Boards, and it's doing quite well, but not really as planned. >> Youre pretty much right about that. I am pretty disappointed in the TSR Message Board. Dont get me wrong...I read it daily and post to it often, but it could have been so much better. I think the one thing that may be keeping folks away from the TSR board is the fact you have to download software...and configure it...and make up a screen name..and password..in other words...it takes too much time. I have to thank my wife, cause if she hadnt sat down and did all that, I probably wouldnt have a single post there today. Thanks Honey! >>I put forth a call: If there are problems and thoughts about this list, please post them ON THIS LIST, and not on other places that are not related to it (it's like showing your dirty clothes in somebody else's house). It's just a sign of good behaving first, and it can be an occasion to discuss the problems and maybe solve them for the good of the game and of the campaign.<< (WARNING--Personal Opinion to follow) What?!!? And be throttled by the "Mystara Zealots". From what Ive seen of the list...and I read it every day, the majority of posters are mature people who are intrested in discussing Mystara. Then there are a few "You're Wrong! I'm Right cause I have all the books and have been playing sine before I could walk!" kinda folks that ruin it. "Canon" stuff is WAY open to debate....especially since TSR..scrapped...er...."shelved" the setting. No one persons views on things Mystaran are correct. I myself am not a Mystara Guru! I actually like the Savage Coast better than the any of the Known World settings. Also, I like AD&D, not D&D. I had no problems with the AD&D Boxed set of Karameikos or Glantri....the CD's were kinda lame...The Red Steel Boxed Sets...one word...Wonderful! The Red Stel CD's: Outstanding! Given those tid-bits of info, one can see where I might not be so eager to post my opinions and ideas here when I read posts on how bad AD&D mangled things....and how much "Product A" sucked.....and then the detailed discussions that I really cant follow cause I'm not an "expert". The TSR Boards, to me at least, while a pain in the rear to get to at times, is a bit more laid back and folks are genuinely intrested in what you have to say. Kinda like sitting on the front porch with a glass of iced tea... They listen to ideas and say, "Great Idea!" or "Good Idea...heres what would make it great:". There isnt such a fuss over "Canon" material and "Rules". There, Mystara is a game setting, not a religion as it appears to be at times on the MML. I'm sure that more than a handfull of MMLers have posted on the TSR board...or at least looked at it. They can probably tell you as well as I that you'd be hard pressed to find trash-talk and posts from "Experts" who seem to talk down to everybody. And...lastly, as much as I hate to say it, I dont think TSR/WotC is gonna bring Mystara back. I'd love it if they did, Id be overjoyed, Id throw a block party, but my pesimestic brain tells me to dismiss the notion. I still think the Greyhawk resurection was a fluke...a ploy to draw "old gamers" Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 21:12:22 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #279 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com back to buying stuff again so WotC could make some bucks in their "first year" of owning TSR. Maybe I'm wrong.... So...(WARNING--Personal Opinion) weather we post stuff here on the MML or on the TSR board, I dont think its gonna make much of a difference anyhow. So lets just look at the MML and the TSR Board for what they are: a forum for discussion where WE the gamers can share ideas on where WE think the setting is gonna go, cause nobody is gonna do it for us. There...now I cant be accused of "showing my dirty clothes in someone elses house". Al aka LandoTW on the MML (aka Savage Al or CaptBeni on the TSR Board) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 19:00:16 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - DM Styles >If I >always let them do whatever they thought of, half my plans and preparations would be for naught, and then where would I be -- following a group of PC's going randomly in directions I have no plans for. I'm not good enough at 'off the cuff' stuff to let them do that. If I did, they will end up wandering around endlessly without anything exciting happening, and then we'd all end up wasting our time. I'm the opposite from you on this matter I believe. IMC i give complete freedom to the players. They go where they want to, and to be honest......i'm not to bad at "on the spot" DMing. IMC the players all do what they want to do. If one of the players in the group notices a portrait of a dragon inside an inn, then remembers of how his family had been taken into draconic slavery with most of his village decades ago.....he might think "I'm ready to go back home". On my part, I had no idea the portrait would trigger this emotion from the PC, hell i just wanted some nice scenary inside the damn building......but if he decides to go, and some/all of the party goes with him then i have to be prepared. I can't just say "You see a newspaper on the ground telling of how that dragon died yesterday, but a big mean mage is STILL in that tower north of town". It just doesn't seem fair, and would entertain me more than that PC. See what i mean? - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 19:12:51 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber << BTW: what do you mean by "a DM has to spend lots of time preparing his adventures and not allowing the unknown to stop him"? Do you prepare very detailed adventures? And does it not constrast with giving maximum freedom af action to the PC? >> I do spend lots of time preparing my adventures. It does not contrast or contradict with what i stated previously however. By preparing, i try to prepare for everything and anything the PCs might do. If the PCs want to go fishing in Irendi and play hookey from the Glantri Castle attack...then i'll be ready for it. I'll prepare for things that there's probably no chance in hell the PCs will go there....but what if they do go there. Landmarks and places on the way or even out of the way seem unlikely to be visited by the PCs, but if for any reason they go there....i want to be prepared. It would be embarrassing for me to toss everyone a Pepsi and say "Hold on guys i gotta go upstairs and check some stuff out." That's what I meant by more preparation. It keeps my games running more smoothly...I've found. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 19:14:19 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber << How can the DM not know the outcome? If the DM writes the adventures he has to know the whole plot and the possible outcomes, what he doesn't know is how the PC will behave and which outcome will be the real one, but he's not completely clueless about it. >> Anything can happen in the game. We all know this. No one should know the outcome, but the DM should have a good idea of the possible outcomes. Big difference. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 19:15:03 EDT From: LandoTW Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - About Tolerance In a message dated 98-05-05 19:13:27 EDT, you write: << A well put post. I hope it helps things around here..... -Inconu >> I agree totally! Al *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 19:21:14 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mark of Amber >I once was a player in Forgotten Realms. I had fun controlling my gnome PC and having him adventuring with his group, but I didn't care about his impact on the world. My character was the important thing, not the world around him. But what about a hero-type character. One that is bent on affecting things like this. If your character doesn't care about the world then this is fine. But you must keep in mind what the players thirst for. The DM is the only one whom can quench that thirst. >Sure. I'll let him kill Stefan but... >1) I'll have the character arrested and sentenced to death ASAP. 2) I'll have King Stefan raised by his cleric immediately. I see no problem with this as long as it's roleplayed out correctly. For someone to put a hit on a major figure-head like Stefan, i'm sure they will be prepared for the situation. There are many ways to die and not be able to be brought back by a cleric. Also, there are many ways to escape. I'm not trying to put down your ideas here, i'm just telling you that the scenario is possible if you keep an open mind to the situation. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 19:22:50 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Jaggars In Melee << He is 24th level. That means 5 weapon proficiency slots going by the AD&D method. He's probably a grand master with his +4 sword. Plus in battle he rides one of his pegasi. And if he's still losing his Blackmoor lightning rod will do 20d6 damage, 42 times. Not to mention his melee spells. Imprisonment for example. Even in a melee fight Jaggar's looking pretty tough.>> Woah! okay, when you put it all together like that he looks much better than i thought he'd look. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 19:33:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber At 02:17 PM 5/5/98 -0400, you wrote: >Well, likely there will be those who disagree but, I don't allow evil parties or evil pcs. The closest I will allow would be chaotic neutral, which is a pretty darn evil alignment actually. I believe the pcs should be heroes, or if they can't stomach this, then at the very least mercenaries with a smidge of honor. What? You won't allow evil PCs and parties? What gives you the right to make such a judgement that evil PCs aren't permissible in a campaign? Just because they lie, cheat, steal, kill, and make party unity a laughable concept? Just because they have a habit of totally wrecking a campaign's carefully constructed background by killing major NPCs for the fun of it? Just because you think that evil PCs have no place in a heroic fantasy that deals with epic battles between forces of good and evil? There aren't enough DMs like that around here. Where are you, and do you have space for another player? >I would never, unless I thought of a particularly compelling plot, give pcs a good reason to kill Archduke Stephen. But you know, I might set up some native pcs of Blackeagle Barony with a juicy attempt to kill the "tyrant Stephen". The ultimate goal would be for them to decide NOT to kill him. To realize that they were going after the wrong guy. Do you get me? Great idea; the only problem I can see is that the only people who wouldn't know right off the bat that Stefan isn't the bad guy are people with a combined Intelligence and Wisdom score of 6. Everyone in the Black Eagle barony knows that Ludwig is scum. Glen Oh, and in case people didn't get it the first time...I agree 100% with Daly's view on evil PCs and parties. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 20:16:10 EDT From: CRlPTONITE Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AOL Boards << TSR Boards has been built with one pourpose in mind IMHO, substituting the AOL Boards, and it's doing quite well, but not really as planned. >> Actually those on AOL can still get to the message boards. It seems as if AOL deleted any link to those message boards but they could not or did not delete the boards themselves. A few intelligent Mystarans had saved the site of the board as a "favorite place" and have been using it. With the code that comes with a "favorite place" AOL members can still use the boards. As of Friday I saw no messages for any world except Mystara. There were only 6 messages from 3 different people (Bruce Heard, RJ Nuttman, and I think Alex295). I don't have the code on the computer I'm using now. But if any AOL members are interested I can post the code for you tomorrow. - --- -- --Criptonite *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 20:34:43 EDT From: CRlPTONITE Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber << Great idea; the only problem I can see is that the only people who wouldn't know right off the bat that Stefan isn't the bad guy are people with a combined Intelligence and Wisdom score of 6. Everyone in the Black Eagle barony knows that Ludwig is scum. >> So no one of normal intelligence could dislike Stefan? I hope you're not serious. Let's take Thincol Torion. Thyatis gives Stefan the Duchy of Karameikos. Then once Thyatis gets in a war, Stefan turns his back on Thyatis and declares independance for Karameikos. How do you think Thincol thinks of Stefan. Stefan may have had his own reasons to do what he did, but an intelligent and wise emperor like Thincol Torion is not going to like him. He IS going to think Stefan's a bad guy. I challenge you to name a RW person that everyone thinks is good. - --- -- --Criptonite *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 20:37:47 EDT From: CRlPTONITE Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber << Maybe that's how it is in your adventures. But in a good adventure the DM can't know the outcome. What you are doing is writing a story and letting the players act out a part in it. That's called roll-playing. Role-playing is more like one of those "choose-your-own-adventure" books. It starts in one place but it could end up going anywhere. D&D is all about role-playing. That's what makes it fun in the first place. >> << How can the DM not know the outcome? If the DM writes the adventures he has to know the whole plot and the possible outcomes, what he doesn't know is how the PC will behave and which outcome will be the real one, but he's not completely clueless about it. >> I'm not saying the DM should have no idea of the outcome. I agree, the DM definatly should know most of the possible outcomes. What I mean to say is he should not know the exact outcome. - --- -- --Criptonite *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 20:49:35 EDT From: CRlPTONITE Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mark of Amber << No it's not! The point of role playing isn't to trick the other players. It's not to fool them into believing that what they are doing is important to Mystara when it's not. It's just a game. Let them have some fun. >> << I once was a player in Forgotten Realms. I had fun controlling my gnome PC and having him adventuring with his group, but I didn't care about his impact on the world. My character was the important thing, not the world around him. But if you had a character who did care about the world around him, would you like the DM to make it seem like your character was doing something monumental when actually the events that the PC caused would have happened anyways? << If an intelligent player finds a chink in Karameikos's armor and discovers a way to assassinate Stefan, let it happen. The DMs job is to adapt. That's what makes it so difficult to be a DM. Experienced DMs pride themselves on adaptability. >> << Sure. I'll let him kill Stefan but... 1) I'll have the character arrested and sentenced to death ASAP. 2) I'll have King Stefan raised by his cleric immediately. >> Now why would you do that? The NPCs should be the ones trying to arrest the PC not you. You do control the NPCs you have to keep the NPCs and the DM seperate. As the DM you will always know where the character is and you will always know what he's planning. The NPCs won't. If the NPCs can capture him, great. If they can't, then you must adapt. If the killers dump Stefan's body somewhere where the Karameikos NPCs wouldn't look, then Stefan can't be resurrected. Then you adapt. You now must figure out who is next in command. Will the country fall apart? Can the queen lead the nation? Some very interesting role-playing will come out because of this. - --- -- --Criptonite *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 21:13:34 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber At 07:33 PM 5/5/98 -0400, you wrote: >At 02:17 PM 5/5/98 -0400, you wrote: >>Well, likely there will be those who disagree but, I don't allow evil parties or evil pcs. The closest I will allow would be chaotic neutral, which is a pretty darn evil alignment actually. I believe the pcs should be heroes, or if they can't stomach this, then at the very least mercenaries with a smidge of honor. >What? You won't allow evil PCs and parties? What gives you the right to make such a judgement that evil PCs aren't permissible in a campaign? Just >because they lie, cheat, steal, kill, and make party unity a laughable concept? I am a little embarrassed to admit, this was the sentence that clued me in that you were joking. I was getting ready to defend my view! Just because they have a habit of totally wrecking a campaign's ccarefully constructed background by killing major NPCs for the fun of it? Just because you think that evil PCs have no place in a heroic fantasy that deals with epic battles between forces of good and evil? Only problem is that every now and then we get a (usually but not always young) player who begs and begs to be allowed to play an evil character. Once I even gave in...but the character got his just reward if you know what I mean... >There aren't enough DMs like that around here. Where are you, and do you have space for another player? *blush* Thanks. I am in Maryland. >>I would never, unless I thought of a particularly compelling plot, give pcs a good reason to kill Archduke Stephen. But you know, I might set up some native pcs of Blackeagle Barony with a juicy attempt to kill the "tyrant Stephen". The ultimate goal would be for them to decide NOT to kill him. To realize that they were going after the wrong guy. Do you get me? >Great idea; the only problem I can see is that the only people who wouldn't know right off the bat that Stefan isn't the bad guy are people with a combined Intelligence and Wisdom score of 6. Everyone in the Black Eagle barony knows that Ludwig is scum. Well, I was presenting a vague description of a plot that was a bit more detailed in my head. The main point being that the pcs start with the assumption that Stephen is the bad guy... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #279 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, May 6 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 280 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber [MYSTARA] - Let's kill Stefan off Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber [MYSTARA] - Let's NOT kill off King Stefan [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber, Tolerance, DM Styles, TSR Message Boards, etc. [MYSTARA] - names Re: [MYSTARA] - names Re: [MYSTARA] - Cuban Cigars [MYSTARA] - Re: The Role of Knights Re: [MYSTARA] - The Ruling Class Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File [MYSTARA] - Re: The Role of Knights Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Items - I Hate 'Em! [MYSTARA] - Re: The Role of Knights Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Magic Items - I Hate 'Em! Re: [MYSTARA] - The flavor of magic [MYSTARA] - Introducing Me [MYSTARA] - Knights . . .good and bad. Re: [MYSTARA] - Knights . . .good and bad. [MYSTARA] - Gareth Re: [MYSTARA] - Let's kill Stefan off Re: [MYSTARA] - About Tolerance, and DM Styles [LONG] (was Re: Mark of Amber and Re: DM Styles) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 21:16:21 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber At 08:34 PM 5/5/98 EDT, you wrote: ><< Great idea; the only problem I can see is that the only people who wouldn't >know right off the bat that Stefan isn't the bad guy are people with a combined Intelligence and Wisdom score of 6. Everyone in the Black Eagle barony knows that Ludwig is scum. >> >So no one of normal intelligence could dislike Stefan? I hope you're not serious. Let's take Thincol Torion. Thyatis gives Stefan the Duchy of Karameikos. Then once Thyatis gets in a war, Stefan turns his back on Thyatis >and declares independance for Karameikos. How do you think Thincol thinks of Stefan. Then again, Thincol's dead! Just teasing...Eusebius and assorted Thyatian patriots would likely agree with you though... Stefan may have had his own reasons to do what he did, but an iintelligent and wise emperor like Thincol Torion is not going to like him. He >IS going to think Stefan's a bad guy. Well, first of all, I would say a world leader like Thincol doesn't waste much time with good guy and bad guy except where it can be used as propaganda. I challenge you to name a RW person >that everyone thinks is good. Me! :) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 21:15:05 EDT From: Inconu Subject: [MYSTARA] - Let's kill Stefan off << Just because they lie, cheat, steal, kill, and make party unity a laughable concept? Just because they have a habit of totally wrecking a campaign's carefully constructed background by killing major NPCs for the fun of it? Just because you think that evil PCs have no place in a heroic fantasy that deals with epic battles between forces of good and evil?>> You are confusing total insanity with evil. Evil doesn't stand for lieing, cheating, stealing, yada yada yada.....It's the personality of accomplishing your goals regardless of how it effects others. Don't think for one second that good aligned characters don't practice the same methods you described earlier. Insane characters could possibly run around trying to take out everyone in the world, but that's not what we're talking about and we don't want to start another "What's good and evil?" thread as those never end up going anywhere, so i'll move on. I want to state however that an evil PC won't destroy a party or campaign if she's played correctly. >Great idea; the only problem I can see is that the only people who wouldn't know right off the bat that Stefan isn't the bad guy are people with a combined Intelligence and Wisdom score of 6. Everyone in the Black Eagle barony knows that Ludwig is scum. What is Stefan's wisdom and intelligence score combined? He has never thought of Ludwig as scum. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and so is scum. It's an opinion and that's all. There have been many examples of this posted so i'll save you a lecture on how good guys are not seen by everyone as being good. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 21:17:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber At 08:34 PM 5/5/98 EDT, you wrote: >So no one of normal intelligence could dislike Stefan? I hope you're not serious. I didn't say that they wouldn't dislike Stefan; it's hard to have warm fuzzy feelings about a guy who through nepotism lets a psychopath wreck your life. But everyone in the Black Eagle Barony knew damn well that the guy to kill was Ludwig. After all, Stefan's not the one who threw people into dungeons on a whim or executed people who interrupted his breakfast. Let's take Thincol Torion. Thyatis gives Stefan the Duchy of KKarameikos. Then once Thyatis gets in a war, Stefan turns his back on Thyatis and declares independance for Karameikos. How do you think Thincol thinks of Stefan. Stefan may have had his own reasons to do what he did, but an intelligent and wise emperor like Thincol Torion is not going to like him. He IS going to think Stefan's a bad guy. Certainly he is; but he's also going to recognize one thing: Stefan's action were politically motivated and in the best interests of Karameikos the nation. He doesn't have to like him, but he will understand his actions. Thincol would have done the same thing in Stefan's position, and not as politely. >I challenge you to name a RW person that everyone thinks is good. Me? :-) Nope, my ex-fiancée wouldn't agree. Damn. Well, I tried. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 21:28:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: [MYSTARA] - Let's NOT kill off King Stefan At 09:15 PM 5/5/98 EDT, you wrote: >You are confusing total insanity with evil. Evil doesn't stand for lieing, cheating, stealing, yada yada yada.....It's the personality of accomplishing your goals regardless of how it effects others. Don't think for one second that good aligned characters don't practice the same methods you described earlier. Insane characters could possibly run around trying to take out everyone in the world, but that's not what we're talking about and we don't want to start another "What's good and evil?" thread as those never end up going anywhere, so i'll move on. I want to state however that an evil PC won't destroy a party or campaign if she's played correctly. They did in the campaigns I played in, but you're right. This argument won't do anything except cause Jenni to write another 'Mom' letter :-) >What is Stefan's wisdom and intelligence score combined? He has never thought of Ludwig as scum. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and so is scum. It's an opinion and that's all. There have been many examples of this posted so i'll save you a lecture on how good guys are not seen by everyone as being good. King Stefan is a good man, with a major (tragic?) flaw. He doesn't understand evil, nor does he recognize it even in his own family. Remember, when Stefan took over, the Traladarans had a lot of complaints about the way they were being treated by the incoming Thyatian nobles. These complaints were extremely overrated in most cases, and Stefan did check a few of them out before coming to the conclusion that the Traladarans were just bitching about the new government. However, the ones coming from the Black Eagle Barony weren't exaggerated at all. But they sounded the same as the ones coming from Kelvin, Vorloi, and even Threshold. So Stefan dismissed them as more bitching. He couldn't conceive that his own cousin could be such a nasty human being. And this isn't impossible to relate to in the real world, either. How many people in 1943 believed the stories about the Nazi death camps? The people couldn't comprehend such sheer evil. And let's not go into a whole debate on this topic, please. I just mention it as an analogy. Oh, and Stefan's combined Int and Wis scores is 28. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 21:34:54 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber, Tolerance, DM Styles, TSR Message Boards, etc. Well, I just erased all my responses to the Mark of Amber thread as it seems to have shifted from the actual module to who's right, who's wrong. I've decided what my opinion is and I'm not telling. Everyone else can be right or wrong. They get to pick. It didn't seem that anyone was interested in the other's opinion to start with so I've decided to stop wasting my time and the list's time on it. Tolerance on the lists seems much like the tide. Sometimes the list is helpful and welcoming and sometime the list just looks mean and stifulling. I don't know why. DM Styles have been discussed here and just about every list. Nothing changes the fact that you can't tell someone how to DM. They have to learn their own strengths and weaknesses themselves. I've tried to show mine and through a bad choice of words or static in the air, they just aren't getting through so this is another I'm dropping. The TSR message boards are very attractive. Maybe there's not a huge number of people doing the posts but the point is we're talking about Mystara. Bruce should be counted as one reason but only one. I and a few others were always there. I don't think anyone announce that he hung out there to the recent MML members to show up so there's another reason people are there (and still here). I think we're becoming a community there that's been lost here. What happened to it? Discussions here used to go so deep into the history and myth of Mystara that everyone involved and those reading came out with something new. Ideas used to be helped along until they were turned into some wonderful creations. What happened to the spirit of this list that's been lost in the past few months? - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 23:49:51 -0300 From: edu@giga.com.ar Subject: [MYSTARA] - names I have so much NPCs that I can't invent names for them. Can anybody write me a list of names (male and female) for this: *dwarves *elves *halfings Humans from Karameikos, Darokin and Ylauram. Thanks, Umil the Wizard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 23:19:54 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - names On Tue, 5 May 1998 edu@giga.com.ar wrote: >*elves Love 'em! Here's a few names on the spot: Male: Shillandrian Riverwalker Llewellen Starwatcher Melodio Skyree Carillon One-Shot Whisperwind Lightfoot Ignalio (In-ngal-E-o) Redtassel Female: Carolinne Stareyes Lilyheart Windchime <- An actual PC char of mine :) Follandra Skyreaver Xe'tanne, the tiger-hearted. Vashalla Odelay Ellae Treedancer Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 00:13:45 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Cuban Cigars In a message dated 98-05-04 07:44:14 EDT, rmunch@easynet.co.uk writes: >Cuban 'gars are illegal in the US???? >I'm amazed. >"You Learn Something New Every Day." Importing virtually anything from Cuba is illegal in the US -- Cuban cigars being one of the few items recognizable as such "contraband". *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 00:13:58 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: The Role of Knights In a message dated 98-05-03 18:23:25 EDT, jdaly@friend.ly.net writes: >On the contrary, Thyatis enslaves many people of other races. Historically ((No, not just in America...) enslaving a person who looks different from you, makes it easier... Of course, if Thyatis is based on a Roman model, then the difference would be that race is not a reliable criterion for distinguishing citizens from slaves. Many non-Romans were able to become citizens, and many Italians were slaves. Distinguishing a slave from a free man required paying attention to subtle social clues -- skin color and the like would not have been very reliable indicators. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 00:14:07 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Ruling Class You may also want to steal ideas from Chaosium's "Lordly Domains" for the _Pendragon_ game -- of course, you will have to make some adjustments for spellcasting rulers, as that game assumes that only knights can rule dominions effectively. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 00:14:05 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File In a message dated 98-05-04 07:56:12 EDT, rmunch@easynet.co.uk writes: >How did the Bellaynish rakasta get to Patera? DO they have flying ships too? Read Poul Anderson's "The High Crusade" for some ideas about that one. Basically, they don't need to make flying ships -- but if the rakasta from Patera invade and lose their first battle, then the Bellaynish will have their own flying ship -- and if they took at least one prisoner, then they will have directions to Patera as well as some useful tips for flying the thing back there. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 00:14:14 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: The Role of Knights In a message dated 98-05-04 09:06:25 EDT, jdaly@friend.ly.net writes: >I don't think so. Knights and chivalric deeds were largely an invention of TThomas Mallory. Malory did not invent much of anything -- nearly everything he wrote was lifted from stories at least a century or two older. But one problem that medieval writers had was that they had no conception of technological progress -- as a result they gave the military equipment of their own time to the heroes of their stories, even if they lived before the fall of Troy. In case you don't believe me -- there is a tale set in the time of Theseus that involves a joust! We readily see the absurdity of such anachronisms up to a point -- but because the best known tales of King Arthur date from the late Middle Ages, we readily picture him and his knights riding around in plate armor, jousting, and doing various other things that nobody in the early Dark Ages would have done -- although in fairness to some folks on the "ArthurNet" mailing list I must admit that a few of them would argue about the jousting part. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 00:14:10 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Items - I Hate 'Em! In a message dated 98-05-04 08:56:22 EDT, rmunch@easynet.co.uk writes: >The problem with magic items are that PCs will always have more than the NPCs, because as they adventure they take them off the bad guys. I consider >on Mystara that very few items are just "lying around" - I reckon that most of Jaggars gear, for example, was either made by himself personally or left to him by his family. I am not sure about other major NPCs, but Jaggar at least is supposed to have had some background as an adventurer -- one of his known adventures Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 06:53:45 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #280 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com involved some Davanian gnomes and an "Earthshaker" gargantuan automaton. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 00:14:11 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: The Role of Knights In a message dated 98-05-04 09:06:25 EDT, jdaly@friend.ly.net writes: >Well...perhaps you know this but...King Arthur was a Celtic chieftain. PPerhaps Christian perhaps not. Given the time and the location, probably not. But that much is unknown. Given the time and location, he would almost certainly have been a Christian -- although from what certain churchmen wrote about him he may not have been a very good one in their view. But the surviving writings of the post-Roman Celts make it clear that one of the many things that the Britons detested about the Saxons was that they were a bunch of pagan barbarians. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 00:14:17 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals In a message dated 98-05-04 16:16:08 EDT, JamugaKhan@aol.com writes: >Do you mean, that a 5th circle dracologist can beat a dragon ruler aand become the dragon ruler as described in the master set/RC while the true ruler still exists as an immortal according to WotI? Yes, exactly! The dragons of Mystara are ruled by the mortal identities of the dragon rulers, and those mortal identities can be defeated and replaced by mortal dracologists. And I would like to thank the person who identified the source of my theory in this regard -- it was an article by Bruce Heard in Dragon magazine, the same article that described Prince Jaggar's reconciliation with the dragon rulers. I knew I had it from a good source.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 00:14:32 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber In this adventure the DM does indeed have a great deal of room for fudging things. The PCs do get a commentary on how well they did, and the DM should certainly stick with the appropriate commentary based on their performance -- but he can certainly do as he pleases with Etienne himself, as the PCs would not have had any particular expectations as to the effects of their actions on the return of Etienne. But if the PCs did really well, Etienne should be very friendly to them even if he is now permanently mortal. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 00:31:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Magic Items - I Hate 'Em! Alan Shutko pontificated: >When we got to the misshapen AD&D products, it seemed toned down for beginner's sake. Hence Jaggar's little ring of protection. (Personally I think those products were useless, so I'll not even try to defend them.) The writers probably know that if they do give Jaggar a bunch of powerful magical items, some first time DM will let his players with their powerful party of 3rd level characters kill him and grab all the items :) - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 01:06:50 EDT From: BoBo II Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The flavor of magic Very well thought out and presented. You might also take different types of Magic Items as coming from specific times. Your Blackmooran wand is a good example, I'd add some sort of handheld "sensor" detect magic, detect enemies, detect traps, etc wands. Add Crystal balls for viewing and some of the colapsable houses and fortresses. But maybe not many melee weapons (except wacky ones like Rods of weaponry and the swords with all the funky side abilities and intelligence etc.) Add to this bracers of protection and the really powerful suits of etherealness, displacer cloaks. You could also have ancient elvish and dwarvish weapons, or, heck , why not an old wooden and flint Gnollish spear that should have rotted away ages ago, but their shamans made it +1, +2 vs. humans. When you get to Nithia, throw in many of the bowls, scarabs, medallions, Rings of Animal Control, Human control, Safety, Regeneration, and in an archeologically fun twist, have really high powered scrolls with the Curses, protection from undead, and high level spells all written in ancient Nithian/mage script. Also spell book/scrolls for any new spells you want to enter into the campaign as lost secrets. Alphatian-era items include practical applications of everyday low level spells; lots of spell storing, spell turning, spell catching items, High end weapons that are enchanted like two handed swords, plate mail, crossbows, where the tech level of the item itself needs an advanced culture prior to enchantment. And of course, all the elemental mastery. And potions, while the formulas may have been around for ever, would be "recent" in my opinion. Also the whole "flying-thing" would be more widespread, but those ancient flying items (Blackmoorian Flying armor and boots of levitation, long/sleek metal flying ships powered by cylindrical engines that contain several air elementals for thrust ; Nithian carpets, Chariots (?), Shields with a winged creature depicted on its face) might serve as inspiration to todays enchanters. Comments? Continuations . . . ? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 01:54:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Savoie Subject: [MYSTARA] - Introducing Me Hi, my name is Pierre Savoie. In 1985 I was getting tired of waiting for TSR to revise AD&D, and they said they would release it soon, so I collected the xD&D boxes instead: red, blue, teal, black, and...uh...puke? No I guess you have to call it gold. :-) The Gazetteers for the Known World (which eventually was called Mystara) were masterpieces (for TSR, anyway), packed with information and slowly tracing a complete world with millenial-old history. Since I proudly owned 60 RPGs and was unashamed of confronting an AD&D monoculture, I ran a D&D campaign for a while at the University of Toronto. Not everything was high-class (I apologize for "McDungeons"), but with a real geography of Mystara to work with, it was interesting. I was amused by the military code of the Orcs of Thar, or "Da Legion", or the fact that dwarves memorize large-scale stone construction-patterns like most kids try to duplicate LEGO instructions. I liked the island kingdoms the best (Ierendi, Minrothad). I am unfamiliar with how there were later editions of Mystara for AD&D or what changes they made to them, though. PBS just showed a special in two parts called IN THE FOOTSTEPS OF ALEXANDER THE GREAT. Now that was a guy who did some travelling...the low-tech nature of his military campaign would fit well in Mystara; see how far YOU can spread your empire before croaking. I didn't like how TSR treated xD&D like a secondary game, out to rope the little kiddies into the "real" AD&D. Many of the best gaming ideas appeared in D&D first, such as weapons specializations. If you check the 2nd-ed AD&D DMG p. 22 for "Creating a New Character Class", that system for customized character-classes seems suspiciously like a DRAGON article by Paul M. Crabaugh in May 1986, which HE wrote for xD&D. That sounds like outright cannibalization to me. Maybe Mystara was converted to AD&D and then forgotten because it was too high-quality for the TSR corporate purpose of D&D: as a kiddie game or an "introducer". Know what I mean? Anyway, I'm just looking around here seeing what can be done about the situation. - ---Pierre Savoie (ab966@torfree.net) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 02:02:07 EDT From: BoBo II Subject: [MYSTARA] - Knights . . .good and bad. On the good side, for those who saw the costumes/armor of TV's Merlin, that Psuedo-roman/transition armor had a great look for Thyatis, Storm Soldiers, Karameikans of Thyatian ancestry, etc On the bad side, Please read A Distant Mirror by Barabara Tuckman, an award winning political scientist. This book chronicals the events of the era encompassing the beginings of the Hundred Years War, the Plague, some Crusading action, etc. Is paints a well documented accord of the Heros and villains feudal lords could be and the ways knights behaved both in and out of war. The details of the conflicting Feudal ties the system could put on a landholder are what prompted me to comment earlier on this list about potential political marriages *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 02:24:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Savoie Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Knights . . .good and bad. On Wed, 6 May 1998, BoBo II wrote: >On the good side, for those who saw the costumes/armor of TV's Merlin, that Psuedo-roman/transition armor had a great look for Thyatis, Storm Soldiers, Karameikans of Thyatian ancestry, etc Even better was ROAR, while it lasted, where the Romans were invading "a certain Celtic island". This could have ties to Karameikos where the Thyatians mix with the indigenous Karameikan culture. The actor who played "Gawaine" in MERLIN also played the Roman longevity dude Longinus in ROAR. His name was Sebastien something... - ---Pierre Savoie (ab966@torfree.net) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 21:00:42 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Gareth >><>Or maybe he knows who it is, and just isn't telling. >You know, I never thought of that! >So, perhaps an ally of Loki? Or maybe...maybe it is a mortal... Need I remind you that Loki is also known as Bozdogan? The whole Gareth thing could be a clever plot by Loki and the Master to weed out dissidents in Sind. ************ Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 06:52:59 EDT From: The Motive Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Let's kill Stefan off << Just because they lie, cheat, steal, kill, and make party unity a laughable concept? Just because they have a habit of totally wrecking a campaign's carefully constructed background by killing major NPCs for the fun of it? Just because you think that evil PCs have no place in a heroic fantasy that deals with epic battles between forces of good and evil?>> No, actually only Chaotic Evil characters are like that. And only then, only the stupid ones are. I am currently playing a Lawful Evil Darokanian. She was born into the Elite class of Darokin, and was going to inherit her family's vast shipping and trade empire. Unfortunately, on the eve of her 18th Birthday her mother gave birth. To a boy. So she stood to inherit nothing, and in her rage she stole a large sum of money and fled the country. Now, she was born better then everyone else. Literally. The majority of the Darokinian population were "beneath" her, and trust me, she let's *everyone* know that. Around the aristocracy and nobility, she fits in perfectly, knowing exactly what wine to order and what to tell the servants. But around the other 99% of the population she seems like a snobby bitch. Which she is. She also only cares about three things: A.) Herself. B.) Money. C.) Killing her parents and taking over the family business. She doesn't go around killing major NPCs, nor is she a psychopath. She is just selfish and arrogant, and knows how to manipulate things for her gain. Now, in my opinion, that's *infinitely* more "evil" then someone who simply kills the other PCs when they're fighting monsters. - - Technocrat *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 12:53:12 CEST From: "Herve Musseau" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - About Tolerance, and DM Styles [LONG] (was Re: Mark of Amber and Re: DM Styles) >At 12.04 05/05/98 -0700, Jenni A. M. Merrifield wrote: AAArguments are often becoming more personal. New-comers are being treated >>offhandedly or even with hostility. >>There will also be more questions from new comers that long-time members >>have seen again, and again. Remember, though, we were all "newbies" once. >>It may be an old question to us, but it is new to them. Answer their questions politely -- I wouldn't want to wade through years of our archives >>just to find out if the burning question I have has already been answered! >What about preparing something to better welcome newcomers to the list? For example, we could send to each newbie Herve's FAQ and a guide to the >project currently going on (NetAlmanac, MChina, Cynidicea, Alphatia Gaz, >SaveMystara...). >I think this would greatly help newbies. Yes, I know, I don't post the FAQ often enough. And I don't update them often enough, either. Leroy, when somebody suscribes he receives the MML FAQ automatically. Is there a way we could do that for the Mystara FAQ? That would help a lot. Then I would just post the FAQ to the list whenever I update it. Is there an address I'd need to upload the FAQ for that? I can do that. I already upload it to my homepage anyway, so... >BTW: I always try to contact Italians newbies and explain them what's going >on on the, where they can find Mystara stuff on the net and so on. Maybe >the other non-americans can do something similar with their fellow countrymen. I don't do it, but sometimes French Mystarans do write to me, and I almost always reply when someone mails me (unless their messages looks like spam at first glance...). As for the list being less friendly, less creative than before, well, that is true. I think that's because many of us old timers know each other and often prefer to discuss in private email so as to get less noise. For example that's how we do with the net-almanac (which again is late, sorry). I for one do not post often to the list, though people who chat with me in private email know that I can also be quite active (when time permits). I think what we should do to end the fruitless conversation currently going on (like how to best DM) or those that go too far from Mystara or OD&D (I'm quite pissed off by recent talks about Knights etc for instance, as interesting as they might be, I'd like that their authors connect it to Mystara somewhat so it becomes more relevant please), we should reinitiate debates over Mystaran issues like we did in the past. Brizio, I'm gonna reply later today to your post about Gareth. I was tempted to do so before, but now I promess I will. Besides, you invited me to do so... _____________________________________________________________ Herve Musseau Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/ Almanac page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/9037/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #280 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, May 6 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 281 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber, Tolerance, DM Styles, TSR Message Boards, etc. Re: [MYSTARA] - names Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber Re: [MYSTARA] - Let's kill Stefan off Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mark of Amber Re: [MYSTARA] - names Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mark of Amber Re: [MYSTARA] - The flavor of magic Re: [MYSTARA] - Introducing Me Re: [MYSTARA] - About Tolerance, and DM Styles [LONG] (was Re: Mark of Amber and Re: DM Styles) Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Items - I Hate 'Em! Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth Re: [MYSTARA] - Jaggars Items? Wuss! (aside from the golems) [MYSTARA] - Issues to raise ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 07:08:40 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber, Tolerance, DM Styles, TSR Message Boards, etc. << Nothing changes the fact that you can't tell someone how to DM. They have to learn their own strengths and weaknesses themselves. I've tried to show mine and through a bad choice of words or static in the air, they just aren't getting through so this is another I'm dropping. >> I was trying to add to your campaign and DMing. If you didn't want help or constructive criticizm, you just had to say so. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 13:16:07 +0200 (MET DST) From: Wolfgang Razen Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - names >I have so much NPCs that I can't invent names for them. Can anybody write me a list of names (male and female) for this: *dwarves Tricky, I have to look around (In germany a Box called Dark Toens and light Woods, a supplement for a RPG called the Black eye, a list of names for Elves and Dwarves exists) **elves see above. Additionally i suppose Eleria, Myridion, Berylia, Orlanda, Eliana, Deedlith, Meledaro, Ariondriell Felerion, Gelerion... (fmffffmmmm) >*halfings >Humans from Karameikos, Darokin and Ylauram. ^^^^ Try arabic names (Harun al Rashid, Said el Fahun, ...) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- shadow@POOL.informatik.rwth-aachen-de | If you flee, you only die tiered shadowelf@genesis.informatik.rwth-aachen.de | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 07:16:14 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber << In this adventure the DM does indeed have a great deal of room for fudging things. The PCs do get a commentary on how well they did, and the DM should certainly stick with the appropriate commentary based on their performance -- but he can certainly do as he pleases with Etienne himself, as the PCs would not have had any particular expectations as to the effects of their actions on the return of Etienne. But if the PCs did really well, Etienne should be very friendly to them even if he is now permanently mortal. >> Here's my (possibly last) thoughts on this module overall. If a DM wants to run the module, he/she should be prepared for all 3 scenarios to be possible endings. It would seem odd to the PCs if they know they did a bad job and Ettienne became immortal or vice versa. If the DM knows what he wants as the end result for Ettienne, then why run the adventure? Have it as a group of adventures getting some fame for doing whatever the end result was. Just another happening in the known world. It could appear in JA or news flowing around Glantri. This way the DM has the campaign going as he sees fit. A DM running the module is one that's prepared for all the three outcomes, as neither will hurt his campaign. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 07:30:03 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Let's kill Stefan off << She also only cares about three things: A.) Herself. B.) Money. C.) Killing her parents and taking over the family business. She doesn't go around killing major NPCs, nor is she a psychopath. She is just selfish and arrogant, and knows how to manipulate things for her gain. Now, in my opinion, that's *infinitely* more "evil" then someone who simply kills the other PCs when they're fighting monsters. - Technocrat >> Exactly. Things like this is what can make evil characters so feared. Most pcs couldn't conceive the notion of killing thier parents over the jealousy of her own brother. Hearing of a character killing major leaders for no reason, isn't frightning. Why? Because it isn't realistic. Technocrat's scenario is a perfect example of an evil character. If a character was known for stealing elven babies immediatley after birth for an unknown twisted reason, this character would be thought of as evil and would leave a chilling feeling anytime he struck. See the difference? - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 14:23:42 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mark of Amber At 20.49 05/05/98 EDT, Criptonite wrote: NNow why would you do that? The NPCs should be the ones trying to arrest the PC not you. You do control the NPCs you have to keep the NPCs and the DM seperate. As the DM you will always know where the character is and you will always know what he's planning. The NPCs won't. If the NPCs can capture him, >great. If they can't, then you must adapt. This is exactly what I tried to say. Obviously is not me as DM who will try to arrest the PC, but the NPCs under my control and they won't know where the PC is exactly, unless he's so stupid to leave clues everywhere. As I said in another message one of the PC in my first campaign, a cleric or figher from Treshold, entered the Keep of Baron Halaran and tried to kill him after killing a guard. He failed and was sentenced to pay for raising the guard he killed and to serve Karameikos for a certain number of years. Later that same PC tried to escape during a mission, but the other members of the party tracked him down and beheaded him! >If the killers dump Stefan's body >somewhere where the Karameikos NPCs wouldn't look, then Stefan can't be resurrected. Then you adapt. You now must figure out who is next in command. >Will the country fall apart? Can the queen lead the nation? Some very interesting role-playing will come out because of this. Yes, though using magic it shouldn't be difficult to find Stefan's body. On the other hand they weren't able to find him when a bunch of halflings kidnapped him (see the PWA). - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 14:45:09 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - names At 23.49 05/05/98 -0300, edu@giga.com.ar wrote: II have so much NPCs that I can't invent names for them. Try to get a copy of "Mystara Player's Survival Kit": a completely useless accessory except for a long list of names for PCs and NPCs of the Known World. >Humans from Karameikos, Darokin and Ylauram. Karameikos: either slavic names for Traladarans (Igor, Vlad, Lazlo, Ivan, Piotr, Natasha, Sasha, Magda, Irina, Tanya) or latin manes for Thyatians (Julius, Lucius, Marcus, Titus, Fabia, Sabina, Olivia). Darokin: every sort of name is OK. From real world english names, to italian ones and even arab ones for people that moved here from Ylaruam. Ylaruam: Aziz bin-Tariq, Faruq abu-Nasir, Mustafa ibn-Yasser. Basma bint-Sabir, Rana umm-Zahra, Samara abd-Ali ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com DM in City Of The Stars - Mystaran Almanac Assistant Leader of Privateers - Student of Aerospace Enginnering Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 14:31:47 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mark of Amber At 19.21 05/05/98 EDT, Inconu wrote: >>Sure. I'll let him kill Stefan but... >>1) I'll have the character arrested and sentenced to death ASAP. 2) I'll have King Stefan raised by his cleric immediately. >I see no problem with this as long as it's roleplayed out correctly. For someone to put a hit on a major figure-head like Stefan, i'm sure they will be >prepared for the situation. I hope so. In my previous campaign a low level fighter (or cleric) tried to kill Baron Halaran of Treshold without thinking about possible consequences of his act. >There are many ways to die and not be able to be brought back by a cleric. True. >Also, there are many ways to escape. True. Writing "I'll have the character arrested" I meant "I'll try to have him arrested" :) >I'm not trying >to put down your ideas here, i'm just telling you that the scenario is possible if you keep an open mind to the situation. I agree completely. Let's stop this thread, OK? - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 08:58:44 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The flavor of magic At 01:06 AM 5/6/98 EDT, you wrote: >Very well thought out and presented. *blush* Thank you. You might also take different types of >Magic Items as coming from specific times. I basically saw this as going two ways. One is categorizing different items into different periods which you did quite well below. I have a few comments/clarifications/additions. The other way would be taking the same magic item and going through all 3 periods to try to arrive at some defining characteristics of the periods. Which is what I did... I suppose one useful thing to do might be to decide what are Blackmoor items (which would certainly be copied though never duplicated precisely in later years), what are Nithian items (which would certainly be copied though never duplicated precisely in later years), and what are Alphatian items, AND what are standard items that would appear in all years. >Your Blackmooran wand is a good example, *bows* I'd add some sort of handheld >"sensor" detect magic, detect enemies, detect traps, etc wands. Add Crystal balls for viewing and some of the colapsable houses and fortresses. I like the thought that most detection/analyzation/location magic originated in this time. Later Mages might make a detection wand in a similar way (ie, by adding nonfunctional metal strands), but the Blackmoor way would be entirely lost. They had a unique way of perceiving the relationship of tech to magic. Later generations don't even see a relationship. But they might copy the method to arrive at the extremely efficient spellcasting techniques the Blackmoorians had. They never will arrive there of course because of complete misperceptions. But maybe >not many melee weapons (except wacky ones like Rods of weaponry and the swords >with all the funky side abilities and intelligence etc.) Yes! This is good. I never even thought of such multipurpose items. Perhaps even Rods of Cancelation originating with Blackmoor, as the techs from Blackmoor might have sought powerful ways to oppose the "pure" mages. Add to this bracers >of protection and the really powerful suits of etherealness, displacer cloaks. Okay. What about rings? Any way we can tie in the rings from the Temple of the Frog? Keep in mind that I am not proposing looking at the old modules and seeing what magic items are present. I think they were tossed in a bit haphazardly. I would have loved to see one of those modules state "This particular staff is not present in ancient Blackmoor". But no such statement was made. However, certain unique items like the rings of the Frog might have led to Rings of Animal Control, Rings of Human Control, and possibly others... >You could also have ancient elvish and dwarvish weapons, or, heck , why not an >old wooden and flint Gnollish spear that should have rotted away ages ago, but >their shamans made it +1, +2 vs. humans. Oh certainly. I wonder what the dwarves of Blackmoor would do differently from the Dwarves of Rockhome? Totally different (though related) race there... And the elves in all their incarnations... >When you get to Nithia, throw in many of the bowls, scarabs, medallions, Rings >of Animal Control, Human control, Safety, Regeneration, and in an archeologically fun twist, have really high powered scrolls with the Curses, protection from undead, and high level spells all written in ancient Nithian/mage script. Also spell book/scrolls for any new spells you want to enter into the campaign as lost secrets. I think Animal Control and Human Control lend themselves to Blackmoor real well...I see the evolution like this: Mages in Blackmoor study the rings of Frog Control salvaged from the temple, they are not able to reproduce exactly the tech that went into the rings, but using certain recently discovered potions, they are able to produce even more powerful items like Rings of Animal Control and Rings of Human Control. In later years (Nithia perhaps) Dragon Control and Giant Control are researched and invented. Other than this, I really like your concepts of Nithia. Something else has occured to me. Locking down such ideas gives us some ability to tell players who ask, "I wish to RESEARCH the spell Charm Monster." Now I can say "In an ancient Nithian manuscript you find the writings of a sage. He is obsessed with ancient Blackmoor and describes the process..." >Alphatian-era items include practical applications of everyday low level spells; lots of spell storing, spell turning, spell catching items, High end weapons that are enchanted like two handed swords, plate mail, crossbows, where the tech level of the item itself needs an advanced culture prior to enchantment. And of course, all the elemental mastery. Yeah. I like this. And potions, while the >formulas may have been around for ever, would be "recent" in my opinion. Also the whole "flying-thing" would be more widespread, but those ancient flying items (Blackmoorian Flying armor and boots of levitation, long/sleek metal flying ships powered by cylindrical engines that contain several air elementals for thrust ; Nithian carpets, Chariots (?), Shields with a winged creature depicted >on its face) might serve as inspiration to todays enchanters. I like it. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 09:00:36 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Introducing Me At 01:54 AM 5/6/98 -0400, you wrote: >Hi, my name is Pierre Savoie. Welcome aboard! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 09:14:09 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - About Tolerance, and DM Styles [LONG] (was Re: Mark of Amber and Re: DM Styles) >I think what we should do to end the fruitless conversation currently going on (like how to best DM) or those that go too far from Mystara or OD&D (I'm quite pissed off by recent talks about Knights etc for instance, as interesting as they might be, I'd like that their authors connect it to Mystara somewhat so it becomes more relevant please), This is not intended to embarrass anyone or cause a tedious debate. But I would like to point out that certain long-running conversations are interesting to SOMEONE or they would not be long-running. Part of tolerance is tolerating things that don't interest you. Personally, I have no interest in discussing/debating OD&D or AD&D rules. I dropped both rules systems a long time ago. I am here for Mystara material. I still have a nostalgic love for OD&D as it was my first system, but I generally delete messages that have OD&D rules in the subject. Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 10:06:46 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #281 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com This is my point. You have a delete button and a preference. Use both in relation to each other...if you get my drift. As for the discussion on knights and chivalry, as one of the participants, I will tell you that it had quite alot to do with Mystara. We were discussing Karameikos and how feudal their feudal system is and how knightly their knights are. If this was unclear to anyone, then it is that person's duty to ask (if he is really concerned about it) in a polite way how it relates to Mystara. If he is simply concerned that it will be perceived as not relating to Mystara, then he has a duty to toss in his two coppers as to how it DOES relate. I am not aware of that particular conversation going on for too long, and I believe it has been dropped anyway (at least by me). Sitting pissed and steaming over something is not good for one's own health and it does nothing for the list. If a thread is drifting away from topic, then get involved! Steer it back on topic! We are the commanders of the list (I mean all of us). We pilot the vessel. So many pilots are likely to steer in different directions. Grab the tiller, man! Get us back on course! But do it politely and with respect of course. Anyway, enough analogies. Mystara is awesome and so are we. We are a family that has lost its parents. Let's stick together like the street rats we are. Jeff *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 09:31:35 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Items - I Hate 'Em! In a message dated 98-05-05 15:16:00 EDT, Rob write in response to: {Story segmant snipped} << I love it. And most likely very true.>> Yes the story was good. I liked the way he seperated the legend from the actiual powers. My one tip would be the sword. IIRC Thincols sword is not a short sword +2. Instead it is a two handed sword +2. <> Well IMO the key is balance. Keep magical items in proper balance. On Alphatia magical items would be common. Elsewhere, they are not. Glantri would have them but their creators may guard them more closely. << I like having stuff like that about. It's these amulets of proof against detection and location that I don't like - and all of their powergaming and overused ilk.>> Once again, this is where balance and rationale come into play. I do agree that having enchanted trinkets that counter every imaginable spell is a bit lame. But that is where the simple fighter slamming his faldirk in the mages gut comes in handy. This of cource being a PCs recognition of their stuff not working and working around the protective devices. They also give the PCs and DMs to use conventianal spells in unconventional manners by using their grey matter. <> Oh my...this creature has once again raised itself from its slumber. :-) IMO Alphatia very much has the Grand Council. Alphatia has not conquered the entire world because they currently have no need to do so. Having a Grand Council of the 1000 most powerful 36th level mages does not mean they are all hanging around working in unison. The Grand Council is a political tool to keep the Imperial Throne in check and not have a repeat of Alphaks folly. And the big reason why Alphatia does have 1000 36th level magic users: it is canon and stated quite plainly in DotE. << If you convert those 36th level spellcasters to 20th level AD+D wizards, there is no way that Mystara would be the way it is.>> I do not see what you mean. A D&D 36th level MU is essentially the same as a AD&D 20th level Mage. <> That may work in your canpaign but I have ask how you handle the other big units of mages. Glantri is full of mages. Ierendi has a whole island full of them, minus the servant goblinoids. Thyatis has a province with the top 250 36th level mages from the empire. If the toning down of the Alphatian Grand Council is used, themn the same goes for the Protectorate of Scalaras and Honor Island. The Glantrians would have to be handicapped too. As for the Alphatian Grand Council Members partaking in politics, I have to disagree. That may work in your campaign, but as stated above, the Council was established as a balance against the Imperial Court. They have very little input in regards to politics. The actual running of the Alphatian Empire falls into the hands of the individual kingdoms owing fealty to the Imperial Throne. The Imperial Throne sits back and oversees the empire as a whole focusing on Imperial policy. << It goes back to this Ethie/Glantri war thing. In D+D it isnt so much of a problem, because wizards are far more limited to what they can do (a D+D wiz had 108 spells to choose from - that was all the spells that ever existed. An AD+D wiz has about seventy at level 1 alone - and thats before you start delving into more obscure spell lists). AD+D wizards can and will radically change a campaign world. And I dont mean flying castles and other mundane stuff. The War of Wrath wouldnt have happened if there were 1000 20+ level AD+D Aeromancers on one side.>> Well firstly, D&D mages may not have the full spell inventory that the more numerous AD&D inventory spouts. An inventory that steadily increases with each issue of Dragon and Dungeon Mags. But the advantage D&D mages do have is their ability to cast spells without needing those spell components. But another thing that should be noted is that the more numerous AD&D spells are also more prone to being variations of each other. These variations being upgrades to lower level spells. But anyway, that difference in numbers is not a big deal as most AD&D spells can be converted over quite easily. Well the last time 1000 maxed out Aeromancers were involved in an all out war, that world was destroyed. But that is Alphatia, and current Alphatia sees the mages diverting widely with their magics. The binding factor that got them involved in WotI was the threat of losing that magical ability. And even then, the Council mages were not really involved. Making their debute to bombard Glantri City at the behest of Zandor after Sundsvall got hit. << I like my Mystara to be realistic, and I know full well what high level mages can do to a campaign world. Mystara is realistic - but it wouldnt be if the writers actually had a hard look at what all these mages would do to Mystara.>> That's funny....realism in a fantasy setting. And IMO the writers did take a gander at what may happen to Mystara with all those mages. Alphatia is kept in check by the chaotic national character. Glantri is kept in check due to its neighbors and its own population size. Not to forget all of that infighting between the Princes/esses. << You dont need 1000 mages - about 50 would be more than enough to drastically change the world.>> But then we might as well get rid of all those clerics of Vanya. All those pesky elves. All those spellcasters have changed the world. They have made Mystara into it what it is. A reduction of mages to such small numbers would make Mystara like Birthright. If you want magfic out the kazzoo go to Glantri or Alphatia proper. If you want a more fighter based game, then stick to Brun. That is my two bits on the matter. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 15:42:53 CEST From: "Herve Musseau" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth >At 15.09 04/05/98 PDT, George Valencia wrote: FFFirst of all, if you read the first incident involving a sindhi's dream >>of seeing Gareth. When the immortal in Pandius ask as to who Gareth might be...only Loki is the one that's smiling, if that not a hint, then >>i don't know what is. >But Loki (Bozdogan) is also the Patron of Hule and probably the Masters' >sponsor... mmmh.. interesting. >What about the following plot (note, I don't like it). >Hule's patron is Bozdogan, Master of Deceit (i.e. Loki). Bozdogan's interest is "sonquest by deceit" (from PWA). Let's suppose that the Master of Hule attained immortality during WotI sponsored by Bozdogan/Loki. >During WotI the Master's forces attacked Darokin and occupied Sind, but they were defeated in Darokin and their hold on Sind doesn't look very strong. >So the Master,as Gareth, decides to firmly conquer Sind (and later Darokin) >by deceit. >His cleric in Sind help the Freedom Warrior against the Huleans, so that >Gareth looks as a good anti-Hulean Immortal, but in truth he is no less than the hated Master of Hule. >Gareth's preaching of "Immortal non-intervention" is just a way to attract >more followers, so that worship of Gareth may quickly extend to all the KW. >I know it looks a very twisted plot (a la Herve), but it fits well with the >Hulean attitude of conquest by deceit. :) Well actually yes it does sound like a twisted plot I could have come up with... Anyway, there are other possibilities left, some of which have been exposed, some merely mentioned, and some new ones... Let's see what they are. (FYI, despite being known for my twisted plots, I'm leaning toward the simple Gareth=Benekander, but I hope you find some of these ideas interesting and use whichever you want IYC.) So there is: 1. Gareth = Benekander. 2. Gareth = Rad. 3. Gareth = Loki/Bozdogan. 4. Gareth = Thanatos or Hel (4bis Gareth = another Entropic). 5. Gareth = a new Initiate. 6. Gareth = an Old One. 7. Gareth = an Immortal returned from the Vortex. 8. anything else you wish (I'm sure you'll remind them to me). I'll develop each of them in a separate post, else it'll be very long. Feel free to comment to this post, any of the 7, or add an 8th. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 09:50:30 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Jaggars Items? Wuss! (aside from the golems) In a message dated 98-05-05 15:19:11 EDT, Rob writes: << So he possible has a Krynnish artifact (which he aint going to use because the side effects on an orb of dragonkind are somewhat gross.) His golems are an army, not a magic item (though, I admit, that is gross, and would probably make Khelben Arunsun cack his boxers).>> Not sure about the Orb, but aside from the golems and stated magical items, he has another viable tool. The Grand Army of Glantri. True he cannot smite political rivals with it, but he does have authority over his own Divison (elite with a large number of elves IIRC) He also has those powers granted by the secret craft of dracology. <> I think you are being one dimensional in regards to what he does have. His sword is a very deadly weapon for not only is it enchanted, he can also weild it as a war mage. A war mage can use shortswords in combat. The scarab of protection is a "hot item". The Broach of shielding is also a hot item. Noit only does it act as the shield spell, it also allows Jaggar to forego memorization of said spell, allowing him to supplant it with another spell. A medallion of Protection is a darn good item. AC2 is a heck of a lot better than the regualr unarmoured AC. This AC2 is most welcame for one going up against low level fighter types in conventional war. And AC2 is not something to sneeze at anyway. << a Blackmoorian lightning rod - a good wand of lightning, or a crap staff of power, whichever way you look at it.>> Ah but it is a wand of lightening bolts, nonetheless. And the mystique of it being of Blackmoor origin gives an adversary pause to debate its power. << So, in terms of personal kit, I consider this 24th level wizard, the Self Proclaimed Hard Man of Mystara, to be remarkably underpowered.>> Magic items alone do not make the man. More likely it is the accumulated bulk of these items and proper usage of them. [Rest snipped as it is an example of too many magical items for a mid level party. Tisk tisk to that DM] Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 10:06:05 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Issues to raise Hello everyone, here comes another ramble... First, let me say that it's refreshing to see people, such as DM, Herve, Fabrizio, Herve, and Jenni, discussing what they see as possible problems with the MML and how these things can be improved. I've been on the TSR Boards, and while they are very slow, I was amazed at the sheer amount of new ideas and material being generated; this is what drew me to the MML in the first place oh-so-long-ago :). So we've got 200+ members now, that's quite an accomplishment, and it's also a responsibility. With a group of our size, we have a responsibility to make sure that Mystara players and DMs, whether the game gets reprinted or not, get seen in a positive light. I agree with everyone else who's said that we need to better police ourselves, and that information on the various projects and the FAQ need to get out to more people. Perhaps we should prepare a welcome file for every new member - a series of messages that contains the MML FAQ, the Mystara FAQ, and a list of projects currently underway, with email addresses of contact people. That way, new members can zone in on what they are interested in, and what they'd like to contribute to. This is just a thought. But on to the main cut of my argument: Ideas - every one of you out there has a plethora of ideas that can enrich Mystara for everyone else. All you need to do is share them. This is what I'd like to see - an increase in new ideas posted to the list, no matter how suspect you think they are, no matter how lame they might seem to you, I'm sure there is someone on this list who is looking for what you've come up with. This is the main problem I see with the MML: We're becoming bogged down in debates over technicalities in rules where no one budges, we're discussing topics not directly related to Mystara, and we're not sharing our ideas as much as we used to. Even when people do post to the MML, such as Mystaros' History of the Ispan people, and DM's Polymar History, few people comment on it, at least to the MML. I know that I myself have not been innocent in this department in the past, but I can say from experience that when a person posts something to the MML, where their fellow gamers' opinions are valued, and then he or she does not get any response at all - that's really disheartening. For example, I posted the Littonia timeline, and the history of the nation, some time ago, and didn't get one response. I asked Shawn to post my Gazetteer of Selhomarr to the MML, in the hopes of at least sparking a debate, or thoughts on what ancient Mystara could have been like, and I have not received any responses, not even privately. It was as though I hadn't posted anything; the Glantri vs. Ethengar debate swirled on, despite the fact that about 75 pages of text in total was posted. It was as though no one noticed. No slurs are intended against those who participated in those debates, I know it was interesting to some people. If you don't agree with what people write, fine. Everyone has that right to their own opinion, and far be it from me to force people to use what they don't want. On the other hand, I have a feeling that contributions to the MML are being ignored. Correct me if I am wrong, but this is how I see things right now. Sorry for the length of this post, but I felt that this should be aired. Cheers, Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #281 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, May 6 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 282 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - About Tolerance, and DM Styles [LONG] (was Re: Mark of Amber and Re: DM Styles) Re: [MYSTARA] - Issues to raise [MYSTARA] - Gareth 1 : Gareth = Benekander Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth (was: WWII) Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] The Role of Knights Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth (was: WWII) Re: [MYSTARA] - Introducing Me [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Gaming-styles (was:- Re: Mark of Amber) Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth and Loki (was: WWII) Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth Re: [MYSTARA] - About Tolerance, and DM Styles [LONG] (was Re: Mark of Amber and Re: DM Styles) Re: [MYSTARA] - The flavor of magic Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth [MYSTARA] - An NPC ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 16:17:53 CEST From: "Herve Musseau" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - About Tolerance, and DM Styles [LONG] (was Re: Mark of Amber and Re: DM Styles) >This is not intended to embarrass anyone or cause a tedious debate. But I >would like to point out that certain long-running conversations are interesting to SOMEONE or they would not be long-running. Part of They must be, yes. However, this does not mean that it can't become irrelevant to Mystara. Sometimes thread continue to fuel while they have strayed way from Mystara. >tolerance is tolerating things that don't interest you. Personally, I have >no interest in discussing/debating OD&D or AD&D rules. I dropped both rules systems a long time ago. I am here for Mystara material. I still >have a nostalgic love for OD&D as it was my first system, but I generally >delete messages that have OD&D rules in the subject. As do I. But they are relevant since this list is also dedicated to OD&D, so that is not a problem. >This is my point. You have a delete button and a preference. Use both in >relation to each other...if you get my drift. Believe me, I do... I receive about 100 messages a day, so I do delete them often... Deleting messages that don't interest you is normal. You can'y possibly reply to all of them. However, when possible, everyone should try to not send posts that bring nothing (like this very one... sorry in advance). Also keep in mind the digest readers. You can hit the delete button, they can't, they must scroll through. >As for the discussion on knights and chivalry, as one of the participants, >I will tell you that it had quite alot to do with Mystara. We were discussing Karameikos and how feudal their feudal system is and how knightly their knights are. If this was unclear to anyone, then it is that >person's duty to ask (if he is really concerned about it) in a polite way >how it relates to Mystara. If he is simply concerned that it will be perceived as not relating to Mystara, then he has a duty to toss in his two >coppers as to how it DOES relate. >I am not aware of that particular conversation going on for too long, and I >believe it has been dropped anyway (at least by me). Sitting pissed and >steaming over something is not good for one's own health and it does nothing for the list. If a thread is drifting away from topic, then get >involved! Steer it back on topic! That discussion on knights didn't last too long, and I admit it was relevant to Mystara at first, as it, as you remind us, started from Karameikos. And at first I did read it. But it more and more turned to what the RW knights were, which is interesting in itself but unfortunately had less and less to do with the original Karameikos knights. I have nothing against discussing RW, esp as Mystara is so much based on it, but let's keep such discussions aimed at integrating it into Mystara, not for the sake of discussing RW events. BTW, I took the knights thread as an example because it was the most recent one, but there are others, like English Longbowmen, the Crusades... Such threads do start as Mystaran, but often become less or not Mystaran at all, at which point the participants should rather transfer it to private email (this has been done sometimes). Then if you as a small group have come to interesting conclusion, and especially if it has brought ideas on how to integrate it in Mystara, then post to the mml again. >We are the commanders of the list (I mean all of us). We pilot the vessel. >So many pilots are likely to steer in different directions. Grab the tiller, man! Get us back on course! Agreed. >But do it politely and with respect of course. Of course. I don't think I'm unrespectful. Just a bit boring, but that's what you got when you restate netetiquette... Anyway, let's all hit delete, and move on. >Anyway, enough analogies. Mystara is awesome and so are we. We are a family that has lost its parents. Let's stick together like the street rats we are. Agreed. Okay, so where was I? Ah yes, I was writing some Gareth=? messages. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 10:57:37 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Issues to raise Geoff has brought the matter of slack response to some text posted to the List. I for one think it is sad that someone hears nothing on works that one has obviously spent a great deal of time and effort on. Why is this? Well in my case regarding the Selhamarr Gaz, I have not finished reading it. There is alot of info presented for the reader. Needless to say, my "In Box" still has the messages marked as unread. This being despite having browsed over them. I especially liked the legends and lore section. Though having not thoroughly read it, the addition of this concept is most welcome. This appreciation is displayed by a simular addition being made to the Randel Gaz. Other peices are saved on disk after being compiled. Articles submitted a month or so ago are on my other PC. So to all past posters, your efforts are appreciated. I may not agree with all of it (like agreement happens here) but the effort is appreciated. As for the Great Glantri/Ethie Debate, I have to admit that that got way out of hand. I myself am partly to blame. I grew tired of it and stopped responding to it. IMO some folks just wanted to argue. Some seemed to want to impose their own theories without taking into account other possibilities (my way or no way). During that debate, I mentioned my having a couple of wargamer buddies duke it out to see what happens. I abandoned that project. The way the MML debate went had given me cause to lose interest in the whole thing. I appologize to the List for the whole thing. Afterall, it was my little offhand comment on the stalemate that sparked the whole thing. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 17:11:27 CEST From: "Herve Musseau" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 1 : Gareth = Benekander 1. Gareth = Benekander So, first off, I'm a little biased toward this option. Anyway. This is probably the simplest idea, which is well in line with WotI. During WotI, Benekander acts more like a mortal than as an immortal. Which is not surprising, considering he didn't try for immortality, that just fell on him. Plus, he even opposes the efforts of the various immortals. He never sides with any of them, or even makes himself or his efforts known to them, but acts as his councience tells him, whatever the odds, whatever the opposition. Now, what id the philosophy of Gareth? Be careful, it's not that the Immortals are fools that shouldn't be revered. It's that the mortals shouldn't become the pawns of the Immortals. Ie, that they are not stupid immature lots that can only be used as fodder by immortals in their plots, but that they can achieve great things by themselves. Gareth does not forbid mortals from following immortals. In fact, saying that would be stupid from him, as 1) Immortals fade away when not worshipped and he's an immortal 2) there would be an intrinsec loop in this because he's himself asking for worship. It is my opinion that the philosophy of Gareth is to say that Immortals were once mortals that through their deeds achieved a greater status (which is true); mortals should thus not fear them but look at them as models, things they should aspire to be, and that they can achieve only by being as strong and smart as the immortals were in life; that any mortal is capable of that if he tries to; that immortals thus have no resaon to consider the mortals as pawns or fodder and remember that they too were once mortal. This seems pretty close to Benekander's attitude during WotI. During WotI, one of his main concerns is immortal interference. Also, he asks the PCs to watch for weird immortal interference, and battles it, esp. Hel's Balthac false immortal. Besides, Benekander is a new immortal, which didn't aquire his immortality through the standard sponsor path. That would explain why no other immortal knows who Gareth is. That would also explains why this new new immortal can challenge the normal way of the immortals, just like Rad did. What's his relationship with the NoS? It's obvious that Benekander has a deep interest in the artifact. Why doesn't Gareth? Maybe he is concentrating on his new philosophy first, either because it's more important or because he hopes once his philosophy becomes widespread the rest will follow naturally. Why didn't he start his philosophy in Glantri? Well, Sind is not that far. And Glantri has no immortal but Rad, so it is hard for a new immortal to start there. Sind is not far, there was an opportunity there, and he hoped that would spill in Darokin fast because it's an open-minded country (and it did). Benekander, a novice immortal, could so fast get so much following and set up so big plots into motion (though they're not really plots,as it would go against his philosophy)? Probably he gained quite a few levels during WotI, esp. for his stroke at Hel. Maybe the Old One did give him more power. Maybe he got a surge from the repowering of the Nucleus when Rad was fused in it, as he's linked to it too. Maybe he doesn't need to be that high in level to do all he did, eg Al-Kalim is also quite low level (though older) and yet has followers in Ylaruam, Darokin, Sind, the SC... Why did Loki smile when others asked who Gareth was? Well, sometimes a smile is in fact a grin. Why did Gareth say he has returned from the Vortex? If he is Benekander, it is a lie. So what? That statement was certainly not directed at the mortals in the first place since they don't know what the Vortex is. So this was clearly directed at the immortals (using mortals as relays). Well, Gareth's philosophy is intended to both mortals and immortals: the mortals should live by themselves, which means that the immortals should stop manipulating them. So he had to make himself heard by the immortals, and not just by stealing followers from them. That was definetely the purpose of this statement, to make the immortals ponder. As Gareth doesn't get in touch with other immortals, he had to deliver that message to mortals, so they could report it to their patrons. Maybe Benekander has discovered about the myth of the Vortex, probably he watched the Old One's intervention. So he's using this to cause the immortals to fear and listen to him. Even if they don't believe he isn't what he says, they will at least listen to him, and that's what really matters. Did I forget something? Probably so. Let me know. In conclusion, I would say that Gareth = Benekander is a plausible explanation which, though it has some questions unanswered, hasn't any flaw, and is in coninuity with WotI. Next time, I'll explore the pros and cons of Gareth = Rad (#2). _____________________________________________________________ Herve Musseau Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/ Almanac page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/9037/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 11:23:07 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth At 03:42 PM 5/6/98 CEST, you wrote: >>At 15.09 04/05/98 PDT, George Valencia wrote: SSo there is: >1. Gareth = Benekander. >2. Gareth = Rad. >3. Gareth = Loki/Bozdogan. >4. Gareth = Thanatos or Hel (4bis Gareth = another Entropic). 5. Gareth = a new Initiate. >6. Gareth = an Old One. >7. Gareth = an Immortal returned from the Vortex. 8. anything else you wish (I'm sure you'll remind them to me). 9. Gareth=uppity mortal who has found some way to remain hidden from Immortals for a time. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 17:30:01 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth (was: WWII) On Tue, 5 May 1998, Daly wrote: >At 05:04 PM 5/5/98 +0200, you wrote: >>Okay. If he is Benekander (I was also arguing against him being another neverbefore heard of Initiate) and his only motive is to discredit the establishment, then I agree with you. Kind a like an Immortal anarchist, huh? But it seems like a really gutsy thing to do. Maybe stupid. >Ahem, more like an Immortal freedom fighter I think. A revolutionary Immortal. Well, I meant anarchist in the "good" sence so that would be just about the same thing...maybe :) >>I always thought Benekander would try to reason with the Immortals, making them change their ways rather than using such under-the-belt strokes as pitching their potential followers against them. >I am sure he tried this at first. You know, I shall have to look it up, but there is a parable or psalm in the Bible which basically has God speaking to the other "gods" and saying basically "How long can your injustice endure? I am replacing you." >I always thought it was really cool. Hehey. If you do find it, I would love a quotation from that.. bye, Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 17:38:54 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] The Role of Knights On Tue, 5 May 1998, Daly wrote: >At 04:53 PM 5/5/98 +0200, you wrote: <> >Also in a fantasy world, wouldnt one think that the eeexistance of demi-humans would create more understanding between humans? >You have a good point there. I treat the enslaving of dwarves as being similar to the short-lived attempt to enslave the indians. Basically it was seen that the indians fought back too hard and were very difficult to keep as slaves. Sometimes they would just sink into a depression and work could not be gotten out of them. >I see slavery as being foreign to dwarven culture. The idea of forcing work out of an unwilling person (the idea of being unwilling to work at all!) is something a dwarf just doesn't get. And they will fight it. >This is not completely like the indians. Just similar. The indians did have slavery in their culture. I don't see the dwarves being able to understand the concept at first glance, and then reacting with absolute horror once the idea is explained. I agree that Dwarves will probably fight it. Yet, they would prefer slavery to being imprisoned.... I think Dwarves value their freedom highly though and they would probably do anything to escape. Especially if forced to work as farmers...;) Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 17:45:05 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth (was: WWII) On Tue, 5 May 1998, SteelAngel wrote: >On Tue, 5 May 1998, [iso-8859-1] Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: >>to have a sponsor. Meaning that at least one Immortal would have to know about it. (Loki? Nah, he is too smart to do something like that.) >Benekander didn't acheive immortality the normal way. He was trasmogrified into an immortal at the same time the Nucleus became an artifact. Yeah, I know. I guess my mail wasnt quite clear. I meant to use that as an argument against Gareth being another Initiate. Benekander would be an exception. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 08:49:56 -0700 From: Dave Keyser Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Introducing Me Pierre Savoie wrote: >Hi, my name is Pierre Savoie. In 1985 I was getting tired of waiting for TSR to revise AD&D, and they said they would release it soon, so I collected the xD&D boxes instead: red, blue, teal, black, Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 12:39:17 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #282 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com >and...uh...puke? No I guess you have to call it gold. :-) Welcome aboard Pierre. >The Gazetteers for the Known World (which eventually was called Mystara) were masterpieces (for TSR, anyway), packed with information and slowly tracing a complete world with millenial-old history. Since I proudly owned 60 RPGs and was unashamed of confronting an AD&D monoculture, I ran a D&D campaign for a while at the University of Toronto. Not everything was high-class (I apologize for "McDungeons"), but with a real geography of Mystara to work with, it was interesting. I was amused by the military code of the Orcs of Thar, or "Da Legion", or the fact that dwarves memorize large-scale stone construction-patterns like most kids try to duplicate LEGO instructions. I liked the island kingdoms the best (Ierendi, Minrothad). I am unfamiliar with how there were later editions of Mystara for AD&D or what changes they made to them, though. You haven't missed much, AD&D Mystara never got very far. There weretwo boxed sets, which were mostly rehashes of the material in GAZ1 and GAZ3, and three adventures. Two of these were mediocre(Hail the Heroes and Night of the Vampire) and one was excellent(Mark of Amber). Mark of Amber includes a gazetteer on the d'Amberville family from the module X2. >I didn't like how TSR treated xD&D like a secondary game, out to rope the little kiddies into the "real" AD&D. That annoyed me to no end. Even if TSR didn't intend it, it came across asincredibly condescending to the people who played D&D. But there was a plus side to it, in my opinion. Because the high-ups never took the D&D game seriously, they didn't keep as tight a rein on the writers who worked on it. This allowed the writers to go wild creatively. One of the best examples of this in the Gazetteers is an Immortal who used to be a nuclear physicist. And the whole focus in another is a nuclear reactor. Totally fun, but probably too outrageous for TSR high-ups to be allowed in more "serious" campaigns. >Many of the best gaming >ideas appeared in D&D first, such as weapons specializations. If you check the 2nd-ed AD&D DMG p. 22 for "Creating a New Character Class", that system for customized character-classes seems suspiciously like a DRAGON article by Paul M. Crabaugh in May 1986, which HE wrote for xD&D. That sounds like outright cannibalization to me. There are so many examples, D&D was often used as a testing ground for newrules. We had 10-second combat rounds for years before 2nd edition AD&D. The DMs option book for high level campaigns lifted information out of the Master's set of rules. GAZ10 gave humanoids levels long before the complete book came out. PC4 is still THE source for running lycanthrope PCs. The new Ravenloft book called the Shadow Rift introduces the redcap, and one reviewer comments that it is nice to see this mythological creature brought into D&D rules. What can I say? Been there, done that. >Anyway, I'm just looking around here seeing what can be done about the situation. D&D is most likely gone forever, although 3rd edition AD&D might incorporate some of the good parts. As for Mystara, it may or may not come back, this list and others are trying to push TSR to re-release it. But there are a number of web pages by fans which have further fleshed out the campaign world to a great degree. Dave Keyser *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 18:03:44 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Gaming-styles (was:- Re: Mark of Amber) On Tue, 5 May 1998, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: >Sure. I'll let him kill Stefan but... >1) I'll have the character arrested and sentenced to death ASAP. 2) I'll have King Stefan raised by his cleric immediately. Okay, I know you said that this thread should end, but I want to say this anyway :) I think, that having decided such things would not work out very well. I also dislike the Pcs killing NPCs that I like, but determining that the PCs "cant do" something, would never work in my group. The Players have to feel that they are in control of thewir characters. If thei are not, they will lose all interest in them. Pcs can come up with pretty irrational reasons to kill an NPC. Maybe they just hate his guts. In one campaign I am involved with right now, we really hate all solamnic Knights. (Krynn) Especially their leader, who is a gold dragon. (we dont know that, but it is pretty obvious from clues we have obtained) I think a good attitude to the "PCs want to kill Stefan" -scenario is that it should be increadibly difficult. But not impossible. If the Players invest a lot of time and energy on it and come up with some good ideas how to succeed, you should give them a chance. And..about ressurecting those guys...Well. I would really hate it. I have personal experience with that aswell. In another Krynn-campaign, with the same DM, there was this really annoying Dragon Highlord. I think we killed him three or four times, before we succeeded. In addition there were a few failed attempt. This was a bit of an overpower/maybe even Monty Haul campaign so we didnt really do much planning or stuff like that, but we only wanted to remove that guy from the setting because we hated his guts. If he had been replaced with some other guy, that would be fine, but the fact that he was ressurected all the time removed a lot of realism from the campaign. I bet there are lots of people who want to take Stefans position aswell so finding reasons why they wouldnt ressurect him shouldnt be that hard. The trick is to let the players know that their efforts do matter. Ofcourse they will have to face the consequences of them, but they can do anything if they want it bad enough. All of the above was my opinion only. It was not meant as criticism or anything. The things I have commeneted on are phenomena which often have occurred in my own gaming-group and the ways we have dealt with it.. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 18:06:10 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth and Loki (was: WWII) At 23.30 05/05/98 +0200, you wrote: >At 20.18 05/05/98 +0200, DM wrote: >>Loki's evil and tricky, but he's not a fool nor mad. Why should he stir the Sindhis against HIS OWN people (the Huleans who have conquered Sind)???? >To let Sindhis believe that Gareth is a friend and thus having them worshipping Gareth. >This can be a subtle way of conquering Sind. Remember Bozdogan (Loki) golden rule: "conquest by deceit". Sure Brizio, i see your point, BUT... Remember that Gareth preaches Immortal non-intervention and inspires his followers to fight for freedom and auto-determination (self-rule). Now, Loki clearly doesn't like freedom of thought, and if this was really his plan, he should have informed the Master, alerting him of retreating the troops from Sind in order not to weaken Hule with inner strife among his followers. It has no sense really: it is like Vanya having Thyatis side with Glantri and Heldann with Alphatia to be sure to win the war ultimately!... (makes me think about that Simpsons' episode about the aliens who substitute Dole and Clinton to be sure to win elections.. "You cannot choose a third party: yours is a bipolar system!") ;) DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 18:07:19 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth On Wed, 6 May 1998, Daly wrote: >At 03:42 PM 5/6/98 CEST, you wrote: >>>At 15.09 04/05/98 PDT, George Valencia wrote: SSSo there is: >>1. Gareth = Benekander. >>2. Gareth = Rad. >>3. Gareth = Loki/Bozdogan. >>4. Gareth = Thanatos or Hel (4bis Gareth = another Entropic). 5. Gareth = a new Initiate. >>6. Gareth = an Old One. >>7. Gareth = an Immortal returned from the Vortex. 8. anything else you wish (I'm sure you'll remind them to me). >9. Gareth=uppity mortal who has found some way to remain hidden from Immortals for a time. 10. Gareth= some "thing", not quite an Old One but maybe their spawn or some other vortex creature... Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 18:09:24 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - About Tolerance, and DM Styles [LONG] (was Re: Mark of Amber and Re: DM Styles) On Wed, 6 May 1998, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: >What about preparing something to better welcome newcomers to the list? For example, we could send to each newbie Herve's FAQ and a guide to the project currently going on (NetAlmanac, MChina, Cynidicea, Alphatia Gaz, SaveMystara...). >I think this would greatly help newbies. Some mailinglists post their FAQs once a month. I wouldnt consider it a problem to delete the FAQ each month if it helps someone.. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 18:14:42 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The flavor of magic On Wed, 6 May 1998, Daly wrote: >Oh certainly. I wonder what the dwarves of Blackmoor would do differently from the Dwarves of Rockhome? Totally different (though related) race there... Hmmm. Seems to me that Blackmoor Dwarves could become mages. At least that sounds logical. Wonder what effects that would have... Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 18:36:29 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth At 18.07 06/05/98 +0200, you wrote: >On Wed, 6 May 1998, Daly wrote: >>At 03:42 PM 5/6/98 CEST, you wrote: >>>>At 15.09 04/05/98 PDT, George Valencia wrote: SSSSo there is: >>>1. Gareth = Benekander. >>>2. Gareth = Rad. >>>3. Gareth = Loki/Bozdogan. >>>4. Gareth = Thanatos or Hel (4bis Gareth = another Entropic). 5. Gareth = a new Initiate. >>>6. Gareth = an Old One. >>>7. Gareth = an Immortal returned from the Vortex. 8. anything else you wish (I'm sure you'll remind them to me). >>9. Gareth=uppity mortal who has found some way to remain hidden from Immortals for a time. >10. Gareth= some "thing", not quite an Old One but maybe their spawn or some other vortex creature... 11. Sitara Rohini was drunk when she heard the "voice of Gareth" and Korotiku was so amused by the results that he's granting her spells to see how this story will end... ;) DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 12:38:42 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - An NPC Hello all, Just thought I'd share an NPC that I use IMC - a shadowelf warrior who lives on the surface and secretly guards a village in Darokin: Tryllithyl (Level 7 male shadow elf warrior) STR 15 INT 14 WIS 10 DEX 16 CON 13 CHA 14 Armour Class: 0 Hit Points: 40 Alignment: Neutral MV: 90' (30') Height: 5'5" Weight: 140 lbs. Eyes: Pink Hair: White Skills: Cooking (WIS), Mapping (INT), Orientation in Caves (INT), Silversmithing (INT), Skinwing Flying (DEX), Storyteller (CHA), Survival - Forest (INT) History: Born in AC 893 in New Grunland, Tryllithyl was the youngest in the family of miners and silversmiths of the Porador clan. Not interested in the crafts practiced by his family, he yearned for the excitement that could be had as a brave warrior in the Shadow Elf army. As soon as he was old enough, he enlisted for a 10-year tour of duty that took him to such places as the Desert of Lost Souls, the Cearilian Wastes, and the Forest of Spiders. It was around this time that Tryllithyl found that, unlike most of his fellow elves, he had absolutely no talent for magic. The army had tried to train him, but to no avail; he could not learn. Disheartened, Tryllithyl threw himself into his work, aggressively seeking out the enemies of the Shadow Elves wherever they might be. One day, while leading a small detachment in pursuit of a band of orcs, he and his group found themselves lost in tunnels they had never seen before. They soon lost sight of their quarry, and they could not return home, so Tryllithyl led his group toward what he hoped would be a safe place to rest. After hours of marching, they found themselves on the surface, and in an ambush! The orcs that they were chasing knew the area, and wounded many of them severely before running away. There they would have died if it were not for the nearby village of Armstead, north of the Cruth Mountains in Darokin. The villagers had never seen an elf before, though they knew vaguely what they should look like. Some villagers heard the noises in the night and came to investigate, and found 14 wounded elves lying in the foothills. Calling upon their neighbours, including the mayor, they brought the elves into the village and took care of them. When he came to in the mayor's house, Tryllithyl realized that these people, although humans who supposedly shared guilt for the Great Rain of Fire and the subsequent exile of the Shadow Elves underground, had been extremely kind to both him and his companions, and had saved their lives. He also soon realized how precarious an existence these people had, isolated as they were, and subject to humanoid raids. When they recovered, Tryllithyl led his group out of the village, thanking the people. Neither he nor his companions walked away unchanged; for them, these strangers had shown them kindness where none was expected, and as a result they felt honour-bound to protect them as repayment. Since then, Tryllithyl, and his fellow elves, have secretly defended the village of Armstead - calling themselves the Armstead Defenders. They shelter in caves located in the Cruth foothills by day, and at night they secretly patrol around the town, dispatching any who would harm the inhabitants. The villagers leave food on their doorsteps at night, knowing that, since the elves left, none have bothered the town, and they suspect who is protecting them. Personality: Tryllithyl is a complex individual. He has a hard exterior, shaped by years of combat, as well as a strong devotion to the villagers of Armstead. Underneath, he has great affection for the people who showed him kindness when none was warranted, as well as any others whom he comes to trust. He cares little for the surface elves, but neither does he hate them as some other Shadow Elves do; they simply are not an important part of his day-to-day life. Generally speaking, he treats every person he meets on an individual basis, willing to give anyone the benefit of the doubt, unless they prove unworthy of his trust or his respect. If there is anything Tryllithyl despises, it is wanton cruelty, such as that displayed by humanoids. Violence in war is understandable, even necessary, in his mind; mindless violence, or cruelty for its own sake, is an abomination to him. Those who behave in such a manner are worse than monsters in his mind, and deserve nothing but death. Equipment Carried: Tryllithyl carries a normal sword +2 whenever he is in battle, and he wears a ring of protection +2 at all times. For armour he wears a suit of chain mail, and often carries a shield, upon which he has inscribed a stylized tower - a symbol of the watchfulness of his group. Generally speaking, all of his equipment and clothing is dark in colour - his cloak, pants and boots are black, while his armour is painted a very dark grey. Most of his companions wear similar colours. Distinguishing Features: Tryllithyl has a thin scar running down the left side of his face, from his forehead to his jawline. He received this scar during his first fight on the surface from the band of orcs he and his fellows were chasing. Enjoy! Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #282 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 14:12:06 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #283 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Wednesday, May 6 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 283 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - names [MYSTARA] - Magic for the masses Re: [MYSTARA] - Issues to raise Re: [MYSTARA] - Issues to raise Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 1 : Gareth = Benekander Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth [MYSTARA] - Re: Gareth Re: [MYSTARA] - An NPC [MYSTARA] - Tryllithyl [MYSTARA] - Bringing Mystara back Re: [MYSTARA] - Illithids (was Psionics in Mystara) Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Jaggars Items? Wuss! (aside from the golems) Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth Re: [MYSTARA] - Introducing Me Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Items - I Hate 'Em! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 13:05:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Savoie Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - names On Wed, 6 May 1998, Wolfgang Razen wrote: >>I have so much NPCs that I can't invent names for them. Can anybody write me a list of names (male and female) for this: *dwarves >Tricky, I have to look around Didn't the original Gazetteers take care of the issue of names for every region, hence elves and dwarves also in their own supplements? - ---Pierre Savoie (ab966@torfree.net) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 13:00:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: [MYSTARA] - Magic for the masses At 09:31 AM 5/6/98 EDT, you wrote: >Well firstly, D&D mages may not have the full spell inventory that the more numerous AD&D inventory spouts. An inventory that steadily increases with each issue of Dragon and Dungeon Mags. But the advantage D&D mages do have is their ability to cast spells without needing those spell components. But another thing that should be noted is that the more numerous AD&D spells are also more prone to being variations of each other. These variations being upgrades to lower level spells. Don't forget Dragon #200, with the article "The Color of Magic", which discusses changing the special effects of the D&D spells to make mages look distinct. So every mage may have his own style of magic that makes him look different from another mage of the same level with the same basic spellbook. The spell effect doesn't change, but the appearance does. So D&D mages can have as much variety as AD&D mages without such a monstrous list of spells. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 13:15:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Savoie Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Issues to raise On Wed, 6 May 1998, Geoff Gander wrote: >So we've got 200+ members now, that's quite an accomplishment, and it's also a responsibility. With a group of our size, we have a .... >everyone else who's said that we need to better police ourselves, and that information on the various projects and the FAQ need to get out to more people. As a new person I believe the foremost project is to encourage TSR to revive Mystara. What is being done about that? For legal reasons, if you invent some new wrinkle about Mystara and post it here, TSR guarantees they will never use it. >But on to the main cut of my argument: Ideas - every one of you out there has a plethora of ideas that can enrich Mystara for everyone else. All you need to do is share them. This is what I'd like to see - an .... >Even when people do post to the MML, such as Mystaros' History of the Ispan people, and DM's Polymar History, few people comment on it, at least to the MML. I know that I myself have not been innocent in this It seems disheartening but it's only the random nature of the 'Net. Few are motivated to reply to anything, some skim...it's not something to be personally hurt or offended by. - ---Pierre Savoie (ab966@torfree.net) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 13:12:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Issues to raise At 10:57 AM 5/6/98 EDT, you wrote: >As for the Great Glantri/Ethie Debate, I have to admit that that got way out of hand. I myself am partly to blame. I grew tired of it and stopped responding to it. IMO some folks just wanted to argue. Some seemed to want to impose their own theories without taking into account other possibilities (my way or no way). During that debate, I mentioned my having a couple of wargamer buddies duke it out to see what happens. I abandoned that project. The way the MML debate went had given me cause to lose interest in the whole thing. I appologize to the List for the whole thing. Afterall, it was my little offhand comment on the stalemate that sparked the whole thing. One offhand comment is not to blame for starting any major debate; if someone asks a question about background information on (for example) the Keep on the Borderlands, and it develops into a rip-roaring discussion on the war between Ylaruam and Karameikos because the monsters get pushed into the Alasyian desert, the person who posed the initial question shouldn't apologize to the list for starting the whole mess. The mess starts when people get into an electronic shoving match over whose interpretation of the situation is correct. I myself may have posted something near the beginning of the debate, and once when it began to really get out of hand, but for the most part I just deleted the whole bunch of them; I have enough mail to read without getting into discussions about whether or not the Ethengar hordes will be able to get over the mountains of Glantri. When and if I run a game out in that region, I'll deal with it then as I see fit, based on my own interpretation of the circumstances. If I want Ethengar to wipe the Glantrians off the map, kiss the School of Magic goodbye. And if an explanation is required, I'll come up with a plausible one. If the players don't think it could happen, they can look around for a reason as to how it COULD. A whole campaign could be based on that premise if one was inclined to do so. But endless debate on the list isn't the solution. It just turns people away. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 13:15:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 1 : Gareth = Benekander At 05:11 PM 5/6/98 CEST, you wrote: >1. Gareth = Benekander >So, first off, I'm a little biased toward this option. Anyway. >This is probably the simplest idea, which is well in line with WotI. >In conclusion, I would say that Gareth = Benekander is a plausible explanation which, though it has some questions unanswered, hasn't any flaw, and is in coninuity with WotI. Very well thought out; very logical, very plausible. I like this idea. >Next time, I'll explore the pros and cons of Gareth = Rad (#2). Okay, but I still like Benekander best. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 10:21:29 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) >>I disagree. Mystara was created as the most magical world TSR has released. >>It may not have an Elminster.....but i'm sure there's much more quantity of >>high level mages, or magical items in Mystara compared to the Realms. Wouldn't Terari a.k.a. Teldon count as Mystara's resident Worldly sage like Elminster is. Meaning that he known alot about the world and it history, both politically and artistically? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 10:25:47 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara >At 08:13 AM 5/2/98 EDT, you wrote: >>In a message dated 98-04-29 15:32:27 EDT, Inconu@aol.com writes: >>>It would be much better than saying "There's a new country oooof psionics near the Known World" then the next day saying "Just forget >>>about that last adventure guys". >>Of course reality shifts are fairly easy to handle on Mystara -- keep in mind >>that this is a setting where Immortals seem to enjoy altering the memories >>of mortals and both mortals and Immortals are occasionally able to find ways >>to travel back in time and alter history. I wonder if either of these practices >>could explain some of the stranger inconsistencies in the Mystara setting? >Daly replied: >Most people don't like to use "The Immortals did it" to explain everything. >Some of us have been running the KW for well over 15 years and there have >been no psionics up to this point. To suddenly introduce a psionic country >into the KW would be ludicrous. The Immortals are generally more subtle >than that. o.k., let's be parlimentary on this, and bring it to a vote, those in Favor in forbidding Psionics on Mystara Prime, say Aye. the rest can say Nay or no. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 13:26:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth At 06:36 PM 5/6/98 +0200, you wrote: >11. Sitara Rohini was drunk when she heard the "voice of Gareth" and Korotiku was so amused by the results that he's granting her spells to see how this story will end... ;) Hehehehehe! This one isn't as plausible as Benekander, but it would be more fun! :-) Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 13:36:24 EDT From: CRlPTONITE Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Gareth >So there is: >1. Gareth = Benekander. >3. Gareth = Loki/Bozdogan. >4. Gareth = Thanatos or Hel (4bis Gareth = another Entropic). 5. Gareth = a new Initiate. I would rule out these for the same basic reason. Most Immortals do not know about the Vortex. Initiates, like Benekander, are more likely to know nothing about the Vortex. Even if an Immortal does know about it, why would he tell a couple mortals that's where he came from. The mortals definatly have no clue about the Vortex. >2. Gareth = Rad. The obvious problem with this is the fact that Rad wasn't around when Gareth appeared. But, it seems as though TSR has contradicted itself once again. In MoA Rad comes back and announces himself to the world. In the PWAs Rad remains incognito for sometime. IIRC (Please correct me if I'm wrong) MoA takes place in 1014. In 1012 there were sighting of Etienne according to the PWA. Maybe this is a mistake by TSR and Gareth is supposed to be Rad. After all Rad is the only Immortal known to have returned from the Vortex. >6. Gareth = an Old One. Old Ones can do whatever they want with the world. Taking on an Immortal ID wouldn't be too helpful. Plus Gareth returned from the Vortex. The way it was said makes it sound like Gareth was in this dimension originally, went through the Vortex and cam back. >7. Gareth = an Immortal returned from the Vortex. How about Verthandi? Didn't a blackball absorb him? I can't remember exactly. It wouldn't fit with my theory about him. I think that he and Khoronus are the same person in different times. In the gold box weren't some Immortals trapped in a ether whirlpool for eterity when they tried to enter the Vortex? I could be any of them who found a way out. - --- -- --Criptonite *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 13:33:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - An NPC At 12:38 PM 5/6/98 -0400, you wrote: >Hello all, >Just thought I'd share an NPC that I use IMC - a shadowelf warrior who lives on the surface and secretly guards a village in Darokin: >Tryllithyl (Level 7 male shadow elf warrior) Nice; useful, but not too powerful. Do these elves still keep in touch with their home, or are they MIA/AWOL? I have to admit that when I first saw the post, my first reaction was 'Drizzt? Again?!' But I'm glad it's not; these shadow elves could be either a big help or a serious problem to a party, depending on how they react to the unusual defenders. Tryllithyl; sounds like a dangerous chemical. Hey, who was it that was asking about names for elves? Just look in a chemistry textbook and fiddle with those names. That should work. Let's see... Trinitrotoluene = Trinitoltuen Hydrocyanic = Hyrocyni Ethyl = Ethril It just goes to show; everything you learn in school can be useful someday... Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 13:41:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Savoie Subject: [MYSTARA] - Tryllithyl On Wed, 6 May 1998, Geoff Gander wrote: >Tryllithyl (Level 7 male shadow elf warrior) >result they felt honour-bound to protect them as repayment. Since then, Tryllithyl, and his fellow elves, have secretly defended the village of Armstead - calling themselves the Armstead Defenders. They How do you use this NPC? It would seem he is now geographically fixed, and thus would only appear occasionally. My players liked variety, going places, travelling to strange new locales which the Mystara setting allowed to do. - ---Pierre Savoie (ab966@torfree.net) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 13:40:12 -0400 From: Daly Subject: [MYSTARA] - Bringing Mystara back At 01:15 PM 5/6/98 -0400, Pierre Savoie wrote: OOn Wed, 6 May 1998, Geoff Gander wrote: AAs a new person I believe the foremost project is to encourage TSR to revive Mystara. What is being done about that? For legal reasons, if you invent some new wrinkle about Mystara and post it here, TSR guarantees they will never use it. Everyone, especially new guys like Pierre, contribute your ideas for "How Mystara should be resurrected and why to: http://CWSpot.com/mystara/SaveMystara/ We've set up this site as a central location for Mystara fans to post their opinions regarding the resurrecting of Mystara. Also, email me if you are interested in your name, address, and/or email address being included on a petition letter to TSR. Finally, email me with "MystaraWriters" in the subject if you are interested in helping bring Mystara back into print by writing articles and critiquing. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 10:42:25 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Illithids (was Psionics in Mystara) >In a message dated 98-05-01 14:40:44 EDT, mktriton@hotmail.com writes: >>I'm Illithiad, and i'm thinking of placing them in the central, vadri PPPlateau north of Sind, with an southeastern access point near Graez, Glantri, for my campaign, before setting up a page of the Illithiad on >>Mystara Online. >Kaviyd wrote: >A more likely location for Illithids would be underground -- so perhaps they >dwell in caves underneath that plateau. As they work their way east and >south, their first encounters should be with the Shadow Elves and with the Grakhalians (see "Champions of Mystara"). Ultimately they reach locations of critical strategic importance such as Oenkmar, the City of the >Stars, and the chamber of the Nucleus of the Spheres. The last part is rather scary -- from what is written in the Illithiad we can suppose Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 14:12:06 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #283 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com that the >Illithids would care less about the mutating effects of the Radiance but >would be eager to exploit the energy that it produces. What evil could they wreak with such power? My reply: I Said IN the plateau, not ON the Plateau. as for them meeting the Grakhalian, I think they would have to run into the Hulean Humaniods that took over the place, as well as a very angry Red Dragon that lives there. beside in my campaign i've already put a matriarchial Drow Nation as a Buffer Between Grakhalia, and the Illiths, who in turn are a buffer between the Matriarchial Lolth worshipping Drow, and the Patriarchial Korotiklu worshipping Drow. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 10:49:28 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Word on the Forgotten Realms (was Hello Mystara!) >On Sat, 2 May 1998, Inconu wrote: >>most of Davania and Skothar blank....which allows DMs to do projects on the >>missing pieces, and add whatever they want to the backround info on the >>planet. >Skothar, Yes, But not Davania to an extent. the PA series did a job of covering a lot of that continent. >I'd like to see a campaign in Zxyl :) >Max IV Max, you might run into some trouble, the only info. i got on Zxyl, was that they manufacture a type of glowing gem, you can find it in Dragon #200 if your game store happens to have that magazine, because WOTC/TSR isn't going Reprint AFAIK. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 18:29:08 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Jaggars Items? Wuss! (aside from the golems) >Not sure about the Orb, but aside from the golems and stated magical items, he >has another viable tool. The Grand Army of Glantri. True he cannot smite political rivals with it, but he does have authority over his own Divison (elite with a large number of elves IIRC) He also has those powers granted by >the secret craft of dracology. Well, the debate (?) was originally about magic items. The fact he has the Grand Army of Glantri is cool - that doesnt bother me at all. And as for his dracology powers, I love the Glantrian circles. I much prefer doling those out (well, only one PC has a circle, and he is a dracologist) than magic items. All Hail to Dracology and the Grand Army! >I think you are being one dimensional in regards to what he does have. His sword is a very deadly weapon for not only is it enchanted, he can also weild >it as a war mage. A war mage can use shortswords in combat. A war mage can indeed use shortswords in combat. But I reckon a 7th level fighter in melee with Jaggar could cut him into ribbons. A war mage who is smart will not willingly enter melee. Mages are toast in melee. Especially in AD+D (but I recall that in D+D mages were actually quite hard up close and personal?) >Magic items alone do not make the man. More likely it is the accumulated bulk >of these items and proper usage of them. I agree. However, as I have posted in another letter - my goal is this. When(if) a PC reaches 24th level, his magic item armoury should be roughly equivalent to Jaggar. Unless you are being very free with the experience points, this is never going to happen. If you ran through all the B, X and C series of modules, the PCs would have more magic items than the entire of Glantri. Jaggar is, for a 24th level character, low on the items! I like it! >[Rest snipped as it is an example of too many magical items for a mid level party. Tisk tisk to that DM] well, it was AD+D. I suppose level 15 for AD+D is around level 25 for D+D. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 18:46:43 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth >11. Sitara Rohini was drunk when she heard the "voice of Gareth" and Korotiku was so amused by the results that he's granting her spells to see how this story will end... ;) :) Even better than no.9. ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 18:45:30 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Introducing Me >>I didn't like how TSR treated xD&D like a secondary game, out to rope the little kiddies into the "real" AD&D. Yeah, I agree (even tho I dont play D+D anymore). That First Quest stuff... K:KoA was very First Quest. But I love it anyway. >But there was a plus side to it, in my opinion. Because the high-ups never took the D&D game seriously, they didn't keep as tight a rein on the writers who worked on it. This allowed the writers to go wild creatively. One of the best examples of this in the Gazetteers is an Immortal who used to be a nuclear physicist. And the whole focus in another is a nuclear reactor. Totally fun, but probably too outrageous for TSR high-ups to be allowed in more "serious" campaigns. I think Rafiel is brilliant. So do my players! One of my players was a Drow fanatic (you know, one of the results of reading too much about Drizzt Do'Urden). But after he was lent the Shadow Elf gaz, he became a convert. All Hail to Raf! >>Many of the best gaming >>ideas appeared in D&D first, such as weapons specializations. If you check the 2nd-ed AD&D DMG p. 22 for "Creating a New Character Class", that system for customized character-classes seems suspiciously like a DRAGON article by Paul M. Crabaugh in May 1986, which HE wrote for xD&D. That sounds like outright cannibalization to me. Check out Combat+Tactics. Expert, Master, Grand Master... straight out of the black box... >D&D is most likely gone forever, although 3rd edition AD&D might incorporate >some of the good parts. The black hardbacks are effectively a third edition of AD+D. Spells + Magic, Combat + Tactics etc. I dont know - that system is even more powergamable than 1st ed. those dual ability scores are easily manipulated... and those advantages and disadvantages!!!! even the Knights of the Dinner Table were ripping that... >As for Mystara, it may or may not come back, this list and others are trying >to >push TSR to re-release it. But there are a number of web pages by fans which >have further fleshed out the campaign world to a great degree. I wish they would. But they seem to be going for Greyhawk at the moment. I dont know - if they continue the theme of rereleasing old campaign worlds, perhaps there is hope yet. Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 18:37:40 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth >>1. Gareth = Benekander. >>2. Gareth = Rad. >>3. Gareth = Loki/Bozdogan. >>4. Gareth = Thanatos or Hel (4bis Gareth = another Entropic). 5. Gareth = a new Initiate. >>6. Gareth = an Old One. >>7. Gareth = an Immortal returned from the Vortex. 8. anything else you wish (I'm sure you'll remind them to me). >9. Gareth=uppity mortal who has found some way to remain hidden from Immortals for a time. Lol. Now No.9 is cool. ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 18:21:12 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Items - I Hate 'Em! ><> >Well IMO the key is balance. Keep magical items in proper balance. On Alphatia >magical items would be common. Elsewhere, they are not. Glantri would have them but their creators may guard them more closely. I agree about the balance. My goal with doling out magic items is simple - when the PCs are level 24 they will have about the same number and power of magic items as Prince Jaggar... And to do that, you have to be quite tight on the items! (or perhaps I'm being too tight on the experience, so the poor PCs have to do a lot more adventures)... ><However... I consider this figure to be just slightly unrealistic. If this >was the case, then Alphatia would have conquered the entire planet a long time ago. And Thyatis would have lost the war of independence.>> >Oh my...this creature has once again raised itself from its slumber. :-) IMO Alphatia very much has the Grand Council. Alphatia has not conquered the >entire world because they currently have no need to do so. Having a Grand Council of the 1000 most powerful 36th level mages does not mean they are all >hanging around working in unison. The Grand Council is a political tool to keep the Imperial Throne in check and not have a repeat of Alphaks folly. And >the big reason why Alphatia does have 1000 36th level magic users: it is canon >and stated quite plainly in DotE. Well, canon isn't always good. Just usually (at least in Mystaras case). I think the Thousand Wizards is the only part of canon Mystara that I don't like. ><And they spend the majority of their time doing politics, which is, after all, their job.>> >That may work in your canpaign but I have ask how you handle the other big units of mages. Glantri is full of mages. Ierendi has a whole island full of >them, minus the servant goblinoids. Thyatis has a province with the top 250 36th level mages from the empire. If the toning down of the Alphatian Grand Council is used, themn the same goes for the Protectorate of Scalaras and Honor Island. The Glantrians would have to be handicapped too. As for the Alphatian Grand Council Members partaking in politics, I have to disagree. That may work in your campaign, but as stated above, the Council was >established as a balance against the Imperial Court. They have very little input in regards to politics. The actual running of the Alphatian Empire falls >into the hands of the individual kingdoms owing fealty to the Imperial Throne. >The Imperial Throne sits back and oversees the empire as a whole focusing on >Imperial policy. Well, IMC there are large numbers of level 9-12 mages in the high magic kingdoms. However, after level 12 the numbers begin to drop drastically. Taking Glantri as an example, in addition to all the princes there are 8 Master Mages (one for each school of magic) who would be level 18 (and a new NPC of my own - the master wild mage, who is level 15). And aside from that that's it for 9th level spells. And looking at the spread of levels in G:KoM, I think that estimate seems about right. 15th level chaps like Jissel de Gheyn (leader of the Followers of Fire now Vanserie is dead) are the rarity, even in Glantri. The Protectorate of Scalaras is something I dont like at all. My PCs have no idea it exists. I doubt it will ever come up IMC, and I know for a fact that if it does there will be less 18th level wizards there than there are in Glantri. Thyatis is supposed to be a fighter based empire! 250 20th level wizards... *choke*. Krynn has 2 on the entire planet! If Glantri is the magical centre of Brun, I fail to see how or why if Thyatis has ten times the number of mages. Glantri is strictly small fry compared to the Protectorate of Scalaras. Honor Island has come up IMC. There are four 18th-20th level wizards, than the usual amount of "underlings" in roughly the same proportion as Glantri. ><< It goes back to this Ethie/Glantri war thing. In D+D it isnt so much Looking back on that Ethie/Glantri war debate, thats quite funny. I was subconsciously assuming my toned down Glantri... And I still vote for Glantri. >Well firstly, D&D mages may not have the full spell inventory that the more numerous AD&D inventory spouts. An inventory that steadily increases with each >issue of Dragon and Dungeon Mags. But the advantage D&D mages do have is their >ability to cast spells without needing those spell components. But another thing that should be noted is that the more numerous AD&D spells are also more >prone to being variations of each other. These variations being upgrades to lower level spells. The spell components point is irrelevant. Only a couple of AD+D spells use expensive ones - and usually as a game balance point because of their power. However, I rarely see mages short of diamond dust for stoneskin spells in any campaign. More spells mean more versatile, ie more powerful mages. I played D+D a lot, and D+D mages are very weak compared to AD+D ones of equal level. With clerics the difference is even more pronounced. But then, AD+D is a more powered game in general. >But anyway, that difference in numbers is not a big deal as most AD&D spells >can be converted over quite easily. >Well the last time 1000 maxed out Aeromancers were involved in an all out war, >that world was destroyed. But that is Alphatia, and current Alphatia sees the >mages diverting widely with their magics. The binding factor that got them involved in WotI was the threat of losing that magical ability. And even then, >the Council mages were not really involved. Making their debute to bombard Glantri City at the behest of Zandor after Sundsvall got hit. Those 1000 wizards are still there, tho! If they aren't fragging Glantri than what else are they up to? I don't like the idea of the 36th level wiz in his tower, making magic items/studying magic/contemplating the universe thing. I like Glantri because mages there are nothing like that. And 1000 36th level spellcasters all Doing Their Own Thing would have an even greater effect on Mystara than if they instead were tightly welded into a Lawful Council. ><< I like my Mystara to be realistic, and I know full well what high level >mages can do to a campaign world. Mystara is realistic - but it wouldnt be >if the writers actually had a hard look at what all these mages would do to >Mystara.>> >That's funny....realism in a fantasy setting. And IMO the writers did take a >gander at what may happen to Mystara with all those mages. Alphatia is kept in >check by the chaotic national character. Glantri is kept in check due to its >neighbors and its own population size. Not to forget all of that infighting between the Princes/esses. I like a bit of realism in a fantasy setting! That makes the fantastic things seem that much more fantastic. If I didnt want realism I would play the Realms, and I think people here know my views on that campaign world. I but the Glantrian infighting thing. I don't but the Alphatian excuse (see the previous paragraph...) ><< You dont need 1000 mages - about 50 would be more than enough to drastically change the world.>> >But then we might as well get rid of all those clerics of Vanya. All those pesky elves. All those spellcasters have changed the world. They have made Mystara into it what it is. A reduction of mages to such small numbers would >make Mystara like Birthright. If you want magfic out the kazzoo go to Glantri >or Alphatia proper. If you want a more fighter based game, then stick to Brun. Well, IMC there are only about twenty clerics of Vanya capable of casting 7th level spells. The vast majority of elves are supposed to be 1/1 fighter mages (thats according to Alfheim), and anyway, they have level limits. There are only two elves on the planet capable of casting 9th level spells, and they are the two Glantrian princesses (and I believe that that is canon - at least, until they bring out some more stuff). I havnt seen Birthright, because TSR cancelled it before I even noticed it in the shops, but what I see I like very much. IMHO you dont need to have vast quantities of high level mages running loose on the campaign world. If the Thousand Wizards of Alphatia dont do anything than does it really matter if they are toned down? The players IMC would laugh if they found out during the War of Wrath that Alphatia had the Thousand Wizards(well, they know, but they dont know how powerful they are). They would probably be wondering why they are still alive. Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #283 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, May 6 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 284 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Evilness - and alignment [MYSTARA] - Verthandi [MYSTARA] - Forbid Psionics on Mystara! - Nay! Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Tryllithyl Re: [MYSTARA] - An NPC Re: [MYSTARA] - Take a Chill Pill [MYSTARA] - Thyatis = Rome ? Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] The Role of Knights Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File Re: [MYSTARA] - Vanya in Alphatia Re: [MYSTARA] - Galactic Fed? Re: [MYSTARA] - Issues to raise [MYSTARA] - Sage of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - The flavor of magic Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File Re: [MYSTARA] - An NPC [MYSTARA] - Any More NPC's? Re: [MYSTARA] - Sage of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Evilness - and alignment Re: [MYSTARA] - Any More NPC's? Re: [MYSTARA] - About Tolerance Re: [MYSTARA] - Forbid Psionics on Mystara! - Nay! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 19:06:33 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Evilness - and alignment >She also only cares about three things: A.) Herself. B.) Money. C.) Killing her parents and taking over the family business. She doesn't go around killing >major NPCs, nor is she a psychopath. She is just selfish and arrogant, and knows how to manipulate things for her gain. Now, in my opinion, that's *infinitely* more "evil" then someone who simply kills the other PCs when they're fighting monsters. Now that is evil. I prefer the oD+D way that there was no good/evil alignment, though. I think the evil concept is usually overdone. Just because you are evil doesnt mean to say you are a ruthless amoral nutter, just as being good doesnt immediately entitle you to sitting with the Saints when you die. A street urchin may have an "evil" alignment, simply because he steals from people in order to survive - possibly people who may die as a result of his theft. A merchant may be heartless, not believing in charity, because he feels that if those people actually worked they wouldnt be penniless. Both examples above could be "slightly" evil. But evil perhaps nevertheless. Better not to have good/neutral/evil. Lawful/neutral/chaotic is a lot easier to define, i think. ROB ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 19:10:40 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Verthandi >>7. Gareth = an Immortal returned from the Vortex. >How about Verthandi? Didn't a blackball absorb him? I can't remember exactly. It wouldn't fit with my theory about him. I think that he and Khoronus are the same person in different times. In the gold box weren't some >Immortals trapped in a ether whirlpool for eterity when they tried to enter the Vortex? I could be any of them who found a way out. I like Verthandi. I made Verthandi the previous Hierarch of Time, before Khoronus (he was used in the Temple of the Frog adventure that I ran). Plus, the Invincible Hourglass of Verthandi always turns up in adventures. Its cool! I didnt realise there was any canon stuff about Verthandi. Anyone else here know anything about him? ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 19:13:28 +0100 From: "Robert Fry" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Forbid Psionics on Mystara! - Nay! I feel I'm going to be outvoted on this one... Anything that expands and enhances a campaign world cannot be bad if implemented properly. If implemented badly I agree the results could be atrocious. Have psionics exist rarely on the Savage Coast and perhaps in places like the Milenian Empire (philosophise with him, dude...). ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 11:20:48 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Psionics in Mystara >On another Note, Gorm, Madarua, and Usimagras, the 3 Cycindean Immortals, >how the heck to they still survive? Cycindea consists soley of a Pyramid, >and an underground city inhabited by a dying race of insane masked hummans. Do they even try to get followers anywhere else? (Except for the >few travellers who brave the pyramid to get to the 3 temples? The Insane masked humans, are the one worshipping the Triad of Cycindean Immortals, or maybe those are worshipped elsewhere in mystara, or in MystaraSpace. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 14:39:45 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tryllithyl >How do you use this NPC? It would seem he is now geographically fixed, and thus would only appear occasionally. My players liked variety, going places, travelling to strange new locales which the Mystara setting allowed to do. >---Pierre Savoie (ab966@torfree.net) Technically, Tryllithyl's first duty is to the people of Armstead, but IMC he has taken a liking to a female party member, and he will show up in the future. Remember that the Armstead Defenders number 14 in total, and Tryllithyl, while he is the leader, could conceivably leave the area for a while without compromising the defence of the village, though he would feel obligated to return before long. Basically I like the idea of him being a "good" Shadow Elf, one who has broken through prejudice and managed to see things a bit clearer than others. Though we know of course that Shadow Elves are not "evil", as Drow are. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 14:48:43 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - An NPC >Nice; useful, but not too powerful. Do these elves still keep in touch with their home, or are they MIA/AWOL? They have lost contact with their home, and as far as the rest of their people know, they are missing, presumed dead. Tryllithyl, if he had a chance to return home, probably would not do so, mainly because he considers the surface to be his home now. His companions would probably feel the same way. I might provide outlines on the other 13 at some later date, or someone else can do it - it's up to the DM, really, but Tryllithyl is the main NPC. >I have to admit that when I first saw the post, my first reaction was 'Drizzt? Again?!' But I'm glad it's not; these shadow elves could be either a big help or a serious problem to a party, depending on how they react to the unusual defenders. Yup! IMC they helped the party fight off some nasty hobgoblins, and gave them some first aid afterwards, as well as a meal. The PCs had already been in Armstead during the day, and did no harm to anyone, and since the Defenders (some of them, anyway) keep watch during the day, word gets around fast. For any party in the region, these guys can be a rescue squad. But if anyone threatens Armstead... Cool ideas about using chemicals for names! I came up with Tryllithyl one afternoon when I was planning a session for the group, and the myth sort of grew from there...now the party plans to return to Armstead someday to pay the Defenders a visit. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 11:51:06 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Take a Chill Pill >>IMO some list members see the Ethengar as a primitive and not very civilized people. This is not true and I'm fighting for this opinion. >Of course they are! >But then, so is everyone who isn't Alphatian... >Alistair O.K., why don't give us an idea of what is very civilized, Is Darokin with it's centuries of diplomacy to be considered not very civilized, or how about the Shire's System of Government is that not very civilized, Karameikos has Alphatian Refugees that would make the Kingdom somewhat more civilized, or how about the Minrothad and their system of trade. Methinks you need to read up on the Richter Scale of Civilizations before you pass Judgement. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 15:01:48 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis = Rome ? << But does Thyatis have lords who are responsible for the lands? Or administrators perhaps, rather than warriors. Maybe they rely on military force rather than personal power? And why should the thyatian system be outdated? Clearly it is much more advanced than the primitive Feudal system? (At least if Thyatis= Roman Empire and Karameikos = Medeival European nation) >> Hm, there's this statement again that Thyatis is Rome. This is not true, as TSR said that the culture is Byzantine and most names from DoE are Greece. Additionally "Karameikos" is Greece too and means "pottery quarter". Hope this helps... Jamuga Khan "Hear an obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 15:01:49 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] The Role of Knights << Well...perhaps you know this but...King Arthur was a Celtic chieftain. Perhaps Christian perhaps not. Given the time and the location, probably not. But that much is unknown. As for chivalry and plate armor, King Arthur and his "knights" did not use either. The knight was a medieval baron as I recall. Someone who could afford his horse and armor... >> Jamuga Khan "Hear an obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." The knights started as armoured riders who stopped the muslim invaders in Spain. The equipment became better (and heavier) over the centuries. A linguistic point: The German word for knight is "Ritter" and is related to "Reiter" - "rider". *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 12:08:02 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri vs Ethengar... (sigh) ><< Now now, Julianna is not a harlot. She is flirtatious, but...did you >notice she is the only Volospin who has a lawful alignment? I have played >upon this fact in my own campaign...someday I should toss ya'll the full >description of the Yellowskull campaign... >> >That is true in the "is" sense. After Wrath, Julianna had a massive change of >heart as well as attitude. I guess having a principality tossed on her lap >would do that. So more correctly, Julianna was a floosey/harlot. I like >Julianna and see her as a potential power in Glantri along the same lines as >Malachie. Sorry man for now I have to go with G:KoM until my copy of the >Glantri GAZ arrives (i found one). >Alex Well, what makes you think the Juliana's Draconic protector would do about it, since no suitor can go near her without his blessing. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 12:38:06 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File >>BTW - do you think that TSR drew they ideas for races on the Savage >>Coast from cartoons? You have the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (tortle >>fighting monks), Samurai Pizza Cats (rakasta) and Dogtanian and the Three >>Muskehounds (lupins)... For the Tortles, yes. The Rest, No. SPC Came in during the Mid-Nineties, and Dogtanian came in 1990-3 depend on where you were. My only complaint about the rakasta was that only one race is known to live closest to the Known World, and it's the Mountain Rakasta which is said to live in the Khurish Massif, which happens to be S. of the Adri Varma Plateau(RC), what this is telling me is that they live in the mountain of Sind, Glantri, And Darokin. And they happen to live in Seclusion. As for the Bastet Story, I've already brought Bastet back to her Children in the Isle of Dread during their second visit to the island, after i ran 'The Awaking' Module from the Ravenloft, Word of advice, don't run a Rakasta PC in this Adventure. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 20:29:09 +0100 From: "alistairhall" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Vanya in Alphatia >Don't think Clerics of Asterius are "fighter types": they were probably employed in other ways if any of them were in the Alphatian Army.. I mean, >others are more battle oriented than them (Ixion, Razud, even Alphatia to defend the nation!). >DM if in the army they probably belong to the quartermaster general's branch, supply and transport. or military intelligence? jobo mortus dracologgist of the fifth circle *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 17:03:39 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #284 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 15:48:56 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Galactic Fed? << In a message dated 98-05-04 17:07:55 EDT, Jamuga Khan wrote << But according to the shape of the Beagle, it cannot be United Federation of Planets. The Beagle is roughly rectangular, but does not have a disc segment. No Starfleet ship... >> The Defiant is a United federation of Planets starship and it does not have a disc segment. >> But the disc is still recognizable.... BTW, my mail was not meant too serious. Jamuga Khan "Hear an obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 15:48:42 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Issues to raise << If you don't agree with what people write, fine. Everyone has that right to their own opinion, and far be it from me to force people to use what they don't want. On the other hand, I have a feeling that contributions to the MML are being ignored. Correct me if I am wrong, but this is how I see things right now. Sorry for the length of this post, but I felt that this should be aired. Cheers, Geoff >> And it's getting worse I fear. There were definitely too many mails these last days and it's very easy to overlook some. I have not the faintest idea how to solve this, but I'm thinking about leaving the list as I simply have not enough time to read all mails so thoroughly as they deserve it. Jamuga Khan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 15:48:53 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: [MYSTARA] - Sage of Mystara Second try with a new thread: Why a sage must be a wizard or even a spellcaster? Why not a thief? According to the companion set some thieves get a lot of informations. Such a thief could fake to be a mage! Please tell me your opinions.... Jamuga Khan "Hear an obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 15:48:52 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The flavor of magic << > Oh certainly. I wonder what the dwarves of Blackmoor would do differently >from the Dwarves of Rockhome? Totally different (though related) race there... Hmmm. Seems to me that Blackmoor Dwarves could become mages. At least that sounds logical. Wonder what effects that would have... >> They should be like the Kogolor from HW... Jamuga Khan "Hear an obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 12:55:43 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta Errata File >Which clan of Racasta are on the Isle of dread? I'd have to Say Rakastodon Fatalis in the Hills norths of the Tar Pits, and the Cave Rakastas would have to living in the Caves near the ones inhabited by Neanderthals, as well as some Domestic Rakastas who serve as Nomadic traders between the two. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 16:03:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Savoie Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - An NPC On Wed, 6 May 1998, Geoff Gander wrote: >Cool ideas about using chemicals for names! I came up with Tryllithyl one afternoon when I was planning a session for the group, and the myth sort of grew from there...now the party plans to return to Armstead someday to pay the Defenders a visit. Sure better than using the names of spices for Elvish names... The other elves in the party, three giggly young women in burlap dresses, had decided to name themselves Rowan, Saffron and Rosemary. "And who are you going to be?" they asked him. "Herb," said Diefenbaker. --BIMBOS OF THE DEATH SUN by Sharyn McCrumb - ---Pierre Savoie (ab966@torfree.net) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 13:09:12 -0700 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Any More NPC's? Hey MMLers :-) I'd like to ask for some help with a personal project I'm working on, which could, perhaps, lead into the development of a useful list resource. The project I'm actually working on is for my current campaign. There's a sea-side 'mostly-fishing-with-some-farming' village I need to develop which requires the development of a sizable number of NPC's. In particular, I need to develop a set of individuals who are all on the 'village council', and I also want to have a few other random NPC's to flesh the village out with. I have, of course, come up with a few NPC's already, but I'm finding that my thoughts are getting quite repetative as I try to expand on what I have, which is frustrating. So I was faced with this little dilemma and I began thinking that, perhaps a few members of the list would be willing to help me out. Essentially, I'm interested in getting a few more ideas for NPC's for my village -- name, age, basic stats, general personality and place within the village (i.e., current profession, etc). Some basic background info might also be useful, but would definitely not be necessary. So how does this lead into becoming a useful list resource? Well, I was thinking that this could be a way to start up our own sort of oD&D/Mystara 'rogues gallery'. I think this would be neat and it would be fairly easy to create and maintain. We collect any NPC posted by list members, with some being very Mystara specific and specialized (like Geoff Gander's Shadow Elf, Tryllithyl), and some being more vague and generalized (i.e., A generic sort of inn-keeper, a street-urchin who is a good source of "underground" information, etc.). In any case, providing just enough information to make them interesting, but leaving a hook here and there to help a DM work them into a campaign, would be ideal. Then the results get stored somewhere specific and, as time goes on, any new NPC's shared with the MML are added to the list, and now everyone has quick access to a huge selection of NPC's for Mystara! Since I've suggested it (and since I particularly need some info of this type at the moment), I'd be willing to start collecting said information (starting with Tryllithyl), and will even post some generic NPC's I've come up with (later though -- the information is at home). We could maintain the list in a number of ways -- a web site, with an index and one page per NPC; a document file that could be uploaded off the net, etc. Anyone with suggestions on this should speak up. But first, (a) Is anyone willing to help me out in my current time of need? (b) Does anyone else think a 'Rogues Gallery' would be a neat MML project? Jenni - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- PS: Oh yeah, the village I'm working on is nominally in Darokin, having been placed on the other side of the Malpheggi swamp from Athenos, a few hexes to the NE from the other, smaller Darokinian Port (whose name is totally escaping me at the momment...Tenobar?). They have at least one inn and a weekly open market where people from the Port and a nearby Fort (Nar?) can buy fresh fruit, vegetables, etc from the outlying farmers and fresh fish from the operating fishers. Any other info that would help someone help me can be provided if requested. I'm particularly interested in creating a village council which is of mixed gender -- preferably 50% each male and female, probably between 8 and 12 individuals. I also don't want everyone to necessarily be 'nice' all the time -- a few curmudgeons or a pompus jacka* would be interesting... ;-) - --JAMM - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield http://www.jamm.com/jenni/home.html - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- strawberry@jamm.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 16:21:51 EDT From: Dleggend Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sage of Mystara In a message dated 98-05-06 16:06:48 EDT, you write: << Second try with a new thread: Why a sage must be a wizard or even a spellcaster? Why not a thief? According to the companion set some thieves get a lot of informations. Such a thief could fake to be a mage! Please tell me your opinions.... Jamuga Khan You mean sort of like Van Richten in the Ravenloft setting? He is not a high level thief, but he knows a whole lot about undead. (3rd level according to the old book) Dleggend Enter Dleggend's Page http://members.aol.com/dleggend/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 17:24:16 GMT-3 From: "Daniel Nicolato Epitacio Pereira" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Evilness - and alignment I agree with you in this point. My Avenger may be good sometimes, but he will be ever chaotic *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 16:41:38 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Any More NPC's? Jenni said: >So I was faced with this little dilemma and I began thinking that, perhaps a few members of the list would be willing to help me out. Okay! >Essentially, I'm interested in getting a few more ideas for NPC's for my village -- name, age, basic stats, general personality and place within the village (i.e., current profession, etc). Some basic background info might also be useful, but would definitely not be necessary. Sounds like a good idea... >So how does this lead into becoming a useful list resource? Well, I was thinking that this could be a way to start up our own sort of oD&D/Mystara 'rogues gallery'. I think this would be neat and it would be fairly easy to create and maintain. We collect any NPC posted by list members, with some being very Mystara specific and specialized (like Geoff Gander's Shadow Elf, Tryllithyl), and some being more vague and generalized (i.e., A generic sort of inn-keeper, a street-urchin who is a good source of "underground" information, etc.). In any case, providing just enough information to make them interesting, but leaving a hook here and there to help a DM work them into a campaign, would be ideal. Then the results get stored somewhere specific and, as time goes on, any new NPC's shared with the MML are added to the list, and now everyone has quick access to a huge selection of NPC's for Mystara! This is a great idea! I think a simple web page would be best for this, with a hypertext index so people can access the NPCs they want. >(a) Is anyone willing to help me out in my current time of need? I could come up with another NPC or two... >(b) Does anyone else think a 'Rogues Gallery' would be a neat MML project? As I said before, I like the idea, but I'm a bit pressed for time (SaveMystara work, and personal projects, and designing a Top Secret/SI web site), but I'll see how I can help out. :-) >PS: Oh yeah, the village I'm working on is nominally in Darokin, having been placed on the other side of the Malpheggi swamp from Athenos, a few hexes to the NE from the other, smaller Darokinian Port (whose name is totally escaping me at the momment...Tenobar?). Port Tenobar. Not really all that far from Armstead *grin*. >a few curmudgeons or a pompus jacka* would be interesting... ;-) Ooooooh! Got just the thing for that!! :-) Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 16:42:53 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - About Tolerance << They must be, yes. However, this does not mean that it can't become irrelevant to Mystara. Sometimes thread continue to fuel while they have strayed way from Mystara.>> Many topics have strayed from Mystara in the past. Leroy allows space here as he's not an "ogre" of the list. If it strays for too long he takes care of it and allows us to wrap up the post. That's one of his jobs, not one of our jobs though. I don't think it's ever gotten out of hand. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 17:01:01 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Forbid Psionics on Mystara! - Nay! << I feel I'm going to be outvoted on this one... >> I agree with you about the existence of psyonics on Mystara, but not the location. Other than that, you've got my vote. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #284 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message.