mystara-digest Friday, May 29 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 359 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Re: [MYSTARA] - Foresters Re: [MYSTARA] - Foresters Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please DO-orignally MystaraRising! Please don't Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't [MYSTARA] - HOLLOW WORLD Re: [MYSTARA] - Movie stuff for Mystara??? [MYSTARA] - Logo Contest FAQ Update Re: [MYSTARA] - Movie stuff for Mystara??? Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please DO-orignally MystaraRising! Please don't Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please read and respond! Re: [MYSTARA] - Newsgroup ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 00:31:24 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't SteelAngel wrote: >Sadly, though, this is what makes Mystara great. The sheer diversity in cultures in one small corner of the world is one of the unique and wonderful aspects of Mystara. Because of culture and beleif conflict, Mystara is ever changing, not like the bland staidness of Forgettable Realms. I don't see how you can say that. Mystara is the dead setting and the Realms is the huge success. I fail to see how one can be so bad that its a success while the other is so good that its a failure unless you're saying gamers are dumb. A friend told me that Mystara is great. Its a world where a mage is a game and elf is a elf and they both have their own country. I think many see that as a problem not greatness. Though he went a little over the top, he did express a veiw that people have of Mystara and which you're saying they should keep. If the setting is ever changing then why has it been essentially stable for the past 1000 years? - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 00:24:50 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't SteelAngel wrote: >Did they discontinue the Gaz's because of poor sales, or was it becaus they described everything they wanted too? If I remember correctly, there were no vaporware gaz's, so that implies that they were finished with the product line after Atruaghin. I believe a Heldennic Gazetteer was mentioned but never produced. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 23:05:38 +0000 From: "Mike Harvey" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format >Mike Harvey wrote: >>There is only *one* issue I have with D&D, that that is the combat tables for fighters. I realize that they needed to stretch things out to 36 levels, but fighters improve THAC0 pretty slowly in D&D. >One D&D level = less than one AD&D level. AD&D characters are just more powerful, on a level-for-level basis. I disagree. Have you seriously compared 20th level characters between the two systems? Mages and thieves are nearly identical, Fighters and clerics are *slightly* weaker, but not much (if you include weapon mastery). >>At 20th level, magic users are pretty much equivalent between the two systems. They have similar hit dice, THAC0, and spell ability. >I disagree with spell ability. The AD&D M-U has a considerably greater spell selection. Spell selection is a game-world issue, not a system issue. I could add a thousand new spells to D&D and it would still be D&D. >>However in D&D, wizards can go on to *double* their spell ability >I think it's only fair, a 36th level D&D MU matchs up better with a 20th level AD&D MU. A D&D wizard can cast up to 9 wishes. An AD&D wizard can never get more than 2. A wish is the "upper limit" on spell power, and is identical for both systems; it follows that lesser spells are of equal power between the systems (and IMO selection is a non-issue). Since the spells are of equivalent power, more spells = more power. And clerics are considerably *more* powerful than in AD&D once they have access to Wishes, since they can pretty much duplicate any magic-user effect. I don't think any attempt was made to balance D&D 36th against AD&D 20th. Up to 20th level they are basically the same game. The reason D&D goes to 36th is to provide a pathway to Immortality, which AD&D doesn't even touch. D&D lets you become a god, while AD&D purposely limits you to being a mere human -- heroic, but still mortal. OTOH I have not seen the "PO" books for AD&D. They may allow things the basic system does not... Mike - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bing@iccom.com (formerly mike@cs.pdx.edu) Mike Harvey HTTP://www.iccom.com/usrwww/bing/home.html Beaverton, Oregon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 23:10:21 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri On Thu, 28 May 1998, Harri M{ki wrote: >Who you think would be next high judge after Jherek is dead. I think Malachie is probably the current Judge-pro-tem. Next year, we can have a formal vote in the house for the position. Just my opinion, though. >Harald for obvious reasons is not a candidate. Kol or Dolores/Synn migth want that job, but they wouln't get any support. Kol is Viceroy of the Great Crater, and Dolores is Treasurer. Thye'd have to give up their positions, and probably wouldn't get any votes. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 02:13:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Galwylin pontificated: >I believe a Heldennic Gazetteer was mentioned but never produced. I vaguely remember seeing a Heldennic Gazetteer mentioned in an ad, which list all the gazetteers, with Heldann listed as coming soon. I think a Hule/Sind one was also in the plan before the line got scrapped. - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 01:24:31 -0500 From: "Jeremy Reaban" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Foresters >Pg. 19 1st edition Player's Handbook on Table II: Armor and weapons permitted. >Armor: none >Shield: none >Weapons: dagger, dart, staff >Sorry, but it is an AD&D ruling, not just 2nd edition. Not that I agree with That's just for single class magic users. For multi-class, read page32-33, 1st Ed PHB "Fighter/Magic-user: Obviously, this combination allows excellent armor protection, the use of weaponry, and spells." Also, look under Dual Class characters, p33, 1st Ed PHB "Note that this does not allow spell use while armor clad, such as an elven fighter/magic-user is able to do" Anyway, what it boils down to, at least in 1st edition terms, are Foresters multiclass or dual class? (Multi-class would be my opinion, as humans can multi-class in some AD&D settings - Lankhmar for instance). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 23:46:32 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Foresters >>Pg. 19 1st edition Player's Handbook on Table II: Armor and weapons permitted. >>Armor: none, Shield: none, Weapons: dagger, dart, staff Sorry, but it is an AD&D ruling, not just 2nd edition. Not that I agree... TThat's just for single class magic users. For multi-class, read page32-33, 1st Ed PHB >"Fighter/Magic-user: Obviously, this combination allows excellent armor protection, the use of weaponry, and spells." Also, look under Dual Class characters, p33, 1st Ed PHB "Note that this does not allow spell use while armor clad, such as an elven fighter/magic-user is able to do" >Anyway, what it boils down to, at least in 1st edition terms, are Foresters multiclass or dual class? (Multi-class would be my opinion, as humans can multi-class in some AD&D settings - Lankhmar for instance). My apologies, I wasn't aware of the 2nd edition change there (limited armor), and my statements were obviously regarding a single-classed character. As far as Foresters being multi/dual-classed, I'd have to say multi. Although, it might be possible to consider them a split-class character (As introduced in the 1st edition OA- That's what I do any time a class seems to fall under "dual" when dealing with humans.) Jesse. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 07:29:38 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please DO-orignally MystaraRising! Please don't << What would bother me is seeing Mystara on the selves with a AD&D logo on it aaand a CD inside. That was not progress that was destruction. Mystara is a >>D&D product to the core. >> IMO the CD box sets were used to test if people would like the idea of paying by a CD. First Quest, i played.....and it was horrible. The only fun i got from it was laughing at each track as it was played. Glatri and Karameikos were great boxed set introductions but the CDs were still not to playable, but there was admittingly an improvement over first quest. Mark of Amber on the other hand, was a CD adventure that was put together brilliantly in my opinion. It fit in with the module and there were many things to be deduced in the mystery from the CD itself. Overall, my opinion is that the CD idea was progressive, but TSR had to start on an experimental level. What kind of CD adventure to the players out there want? Obviously, the first couple attempts weren't going to be A-class material. However, by the time MoA came out, there was a great improvement in the quality of the CD adventure. Also, Mystara is not a D&D product to the core. If you think it is, then Mystara will continue to slowly die out. New players play AD&D and that's the bottom line. No new market for Mystara if they stay OD&D. There is no demmand for WOTCto bring back OD&D that would amount to anything WOTC would look at twice. OD&D was a great system. It was the father system to AD&D and roleplaying all together in my opinion.....but lets let it end there. No need to drag it out till there's nothing left. WotC has stated that they may come out with one mystara product a year. However, if you don't think it's going to be AD&D you've really got to open your eyes. Both systems are easily converted back and forth so there is no need to be scared of the little ad&d logo in a corner. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 07:50:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't At 12:48 PM 5/28/98 -0500, you wrote: >>dates on the modules you've all been talking about voting for: B10, X11, X4, X5, X10, B4, B7. That game has been "out of print" for thirteen years. TSR screwed over the >>OD&D game and the Known World setting with mediocre gaming material and abominable product design (e.g. the CDs). They cannot be >The CD's were bad...I agree. And TSR learned that they were bad and have not published CD's since. I would just like to mention that I like the CD products. They're well done, and can add a lot to a role-playing session. I especially like the Red Steel/Savage Baronies music CDs; excellent stuff! Just being different... Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 14:04:38 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: [MYSTARA] - HOLLOW WORLD At 09.08 28/05/98 -0400, Pierre Savoie wrote: >I'd like a hint or two of what Hollow World continents are below which Known World continents, in case of special accessways. IIRC the Azcan Empire lies directly below the Shadow Elves Territories and thus below the Darokin/Broken Lands area. Look at the RC map: what lays West on the KW lays East in the HW. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 09:31:50 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Movie stuff for Mystara??? In a message dated 98-05-28 13:58:38 EDT, DM writes: << I've also played the D&D version of "Field of Dreams" (titled Ship of Dreams), Evil Dead and planned on "The usual suspects"...>> The last one, The Usual Suspects, is one I would really love to see. Imagine, the PCs get mixed up in a complicated plot to.....well those that have seen the movie get the idea. "I do not believe in the Immortals? No But I fear their Wrath" "Well I love the Immortals but I am terrified of Kaiser Sossai" "The greatest trick the devil accomplished was making the world believe he did not exist" "He's a myth, a legend, a bedtime story cons tell their kids to scare them. Rat on ya pop and Kaiser Sossai will get ya" And who can forget... "One, two, three, four, five dead guys.....Oswald was a fag" Steven Baldwin in sniper position. Excellent movie. Classy, suspensefull. Cool. For those that have not seen it, do rent it. And watch it from end to end. It is alot like Hunt For Red October, miss one minute and you are all confused. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 07:43:09 +0000 From: Elton Robb Subject: [MYSTARA] - Logo Contest FAQ Update I've attached the Logo Contest FAQ to this e-mail. It has already been updated and it's in ASCII form. For as long as this contest is going, I'll be posting this FAQ once every week. Another note: Kay Ferrell also wishes to judge. — Elton Robb Knight of the Iron Crown - -------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 11:00:14 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #359 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: bc5a26ad499ba77775fcea7115321dec Everyone,Here is a "FAQ" on the contest as it stands. SC Net Logo Q and A. Q. Which one of us is going to host the site? A. It looks like Steven Winston wishes to host the site. Don't worry,Steve, you and Michael can both host a web site for the net logos. Depending on how much space you both have, one can take most of thelogos than the other. Q. Has anyone echoed this to the Mystara List? A. Yes. From the beginning, I have been posting updates about theContest on the Mystara listserve. Q. What sort of logo file formats are you looking for? A. The logos can be either GIF, animated GIF, or JPEG formats. Q. What is involved in judging? A. It is an objective judging. The person involved is normallyimpartial to the logos. A contest like this, if I were to set therules, would have been normally subjective (Star Search style). ButSean Reynolds of WotC-TSR says other wise. A judge must be able to lookat all the logos to see what they have to offer. Q. Where do I submit? A. To http://www.demiplane.net/savagecoast.html. Or to Michael Morris, who may send me his e-mail address so I can post it to this FAQ. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 09:50:21 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Movie stuff for Mystara??? In a message dated 98-05-28 14:25:09 EDT, Jeff writes in response: << >I actually have come up with some adaptations of RW movies for my Mystara ccampaign and i'm planning on writing down an adventure based on action movies that involves... an halfling cook! this adventure will be a crossover of "Die Hard" and Steven Segal's "Trap on.." movies, with the halfling cook (ex member of the Shires Fangs) Stewynn Seagull as main character aiding the PCs.. I know it's crazy, but the crazier the better! ;p I am in total awe of you right now. I did not even see the movie but I know a little about it.... I can just see it now... The Alphatian wormhole mass transit system is hijacked by a bunch of Thyatian terrorists. It is taken out to the Astral where the Randel special ops teams can't touch it. As the pcs stare in bewilderment at the panicking commuters, one halfling comes stealthily up the aisle. He speaks in a tough-guy voice, "Hey you. You gonna just sit there with your oj and your papers, or are you gonna help me squash these guys?" "Randel not able....pish posh. We are just waiting for the order to deploy from our most gracious Empress. Admiral Xerathrist, how goes the preparations for 1st and 2nd Aerial Fleets?" asks the King "Ready and waiting sire. 1st Fleet is poised over Poys and awaiting orders to travel to Sundsvall. 2nd Fleet is over the Randel Line keeping vigilence." responds the officer. "And the Dyrukan troops and Black Watch?" inquires the monarch. "Loaded aboard the flying transports." answers the officer. "They do understand the situation do they not?" asks the king. "Yes sire. Attack quickly and take no prisoners. Kill all aboard and let the clerics sort them out" responds the officer matter of factly. "Good. Screw them if they cannot take a joke" responds the King. "Sire" adds the officer "intelligence says that the terrorists number two score and have at least six spellcasters among their ranks." "So. Am I supposed to be impressed. I do not care if Alphaks himself is leading them. Wait till they get a load of the ..... our little surprise" responds the king ending it with a cheshire grin. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 09:56:12 -0500 From: "Thomas J. Mahaney" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please DO-orignally MystaraRising! Please don't ><< What would bother me is seeing Mystara on the selves with a AD&D logo on it aaaand a CD inside. That was not progress that was destruction. Mystara is aa D&D product to the core. >> >IMO the CD box sets were used to test if people would like the idea of paying by a CD. First Quest, i played.....and it was horrible. The only fun i got from it was laughing at each track as it was played. Glatri and Karameikos were great boxed set introductions but the CDs were still not to playable, but there was admittingly an improvement over first quest. >Mark of Amber on the other hand, was a CD adventure that was put together brilliantly in my opinion. It fit in with the module and there were many things to be deduced in the mystery from the CD itself. >Overall, my opinion is that the CD idea was progressive, but TSR had to start on an experimental level. What kind of CD adventure to the players out there want? Obviously, the first couple attempts weren't going to be A-class material. However, by the time MoA came out, there was a great improvement in the quality of the CD adventure. I have to say that I disagree. I thought that all the CDs were very clunky. I didn't mind that they were included (I simply didn't use them). However, they resulted in inflating the cost of the AD&D boxed sets and modules. >Also, Mystara is not a D&D product to the core. If you think it is, then Mystara will continue to slowly die out. New players play AD&D and that's the bottom line. No new market for Mystara if they stay OD&D. There is no demmand for WOTCto bring back OD&D that would amount to anything WOTC would look at twice. OD&D was a great system. It was the father system to AD&D and roleplaying all together in my opinion.....but lets let it end there. No need to drag it out till there's nothing left. Again, I disagree. I think it really depends the particular audience WotC would be shooting for. If they were looking to sell products to players already familiar with OD&D and Mystara, then perhaps products could be targeted towards those players in some way, perhaps by including dual (AD&D and OD&D) statistics for characters/monsters. However, if they simply "start over" with a pure AD&D Mystara group of products, who would buy them? New players already have their choice of a number of other AD&D campaign worlds. Also, OD&D was not the "father system to AD&D". It was a similar but different (often simpler) set of D&D rules. The boxed sets came out at approximately the same time as first additon AD&D. There was no parental or evolutionary relationship between the two games. That concept was introduced later by TSR when they decided to make Mystara an AD&D campaign world. The "new" OD&D was then marketed as a beginning AD&D, with the idea that young players would migrate to AD&D as they matured. >WotC has stated that they may come out with one mystara product a year. However, if you don't think it's going to be AD&D you've really got to open your eyes. Both systems are easily converted back and forth so there is no need to be scared of the little ad&d logo in a corner. If the products are so easily converted, why not include dual statistics? >-Inconu >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. Thomas J. Mahaney II Help Desk Coordinator Office of Information Technologies Lederle Graduate Research Center Lowrise University of Massachuetts Amherst, MA 01003 tmahaney@oit.umass.edu (413) 545-2692 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 10:14:58 -0500 From: "Thomas J. Mahaney" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't >SteelAngel wrote: >>Sadly, though, this is what makes Mystara great. The sheer diversity in cultures in one small corner of the world is one of the unique and wonderful aspects of Mystara. Because of culture and beleif conflict, Mystara is ever changing, not like the bland staidness of Forgettable Realms. >I don't see how you can say that. Mystara is the dead setting and the Realms is the huge success. Given the activity on this list, I hardly think "dead" is the correct term. Look at Greyhawk. This campaign world was supposedly dead too! >I fail to see how one can be so bad that its a success while the other is so good that its a failure unless you're saying gamers are dumb. Your logic is a little black and white - either sales equate with quality or gamers are dumb. I think that there are a few other choices. First of all, TSR put A LOT more resources behind Forgotten Realms, especially in terms of Novels. Secondly, TSR did a pretty poor job of releasing new material for Mystara after it became an AD&D setting. Most of the products were rehashes of previously released materials - but at substantially higher prices. Gamers are not dumb, they simply gravitate towards better products and/or marketing, which FR provided. However, I agree with SteelAngel - Mystara is a much more interesting setting. >A friend told me that Mystara is great. Its a world where a mage is a game and elf is a elf and they both have their own country. I think many see that as a problem not greatness. Perhaps, but I am not one of them. If I want to play an elf in AD&D, I need to figure out: what type of elf, which class/combination of classes, which "kit", etc. I find this waaaay too complicated. If I wanted to play in that detailed a system, I would use Harn. Although OD&D started introducing different types of elves, the situation was never as complex as AD&D. >Though he went a little over the top, he did express a veiw that people have of Mystara and which you're saying they should keep. If the setting is ever changing then why has it been essentially stable for the past 1000 years? Stable? You're so off base on this one, I don't even know where to start. >This has been a Galwylin© Production >galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) >http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ >The Karameikan School of Magecraft >http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. Thomas J. Mahaney II Help Desk Coordinator Office of Information Technologies Lederle Graduate Research Center Lowrise University of Massachuetts Amherst, MA 01003 tmahaney@oit.umass.edu (413) 545-2692 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 10:54:12 -0500 From: "Thomas J. Mahaney" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please read and respond! You make a lot of good points, perhaps Dragon and Dungeon magazines would be the proper venue for new Mystara products, some could be OD&D and some could be AD&D. >Daly wrote: >>>>"We could be an enormous economic asset to any game company that puts out material to attract us. In the absence of good material, we are likely to just continue sleeping. >>>I would like to add: old D&D style Mystara related material would be undoubtely welcomed by every Mystara fan and immediately bought. New AD&D style would likely be highly disregarded or long kept under quarantine before even deciding whether to buy it or not (a reminiscience from ... G:KoM and the Survival Kits.. aarggh!) >I would prefer [to the person Daly was reponding to] the new Mystara material to be AD&D accessories (not sure if you mean by "AD&D style" AD&D rule system, as I'm taking it, or "AD&D style" meaning crap, which you might also mean from what I've read of this thread..) >TSR would already have a chore raising Mystara again, it would only be complicated if they hitched it back to OD&D and tried to raise OD&D too. We should be realistic here. >Besides, I've worked hard to integrate my Mystara into an AD&D world. : >>But my main point is that we are numerous enough to be worth a look. If we were a tiny minority (4 or 5 people) then I would not even encourage anyone to take us seriously. It would not be moral of me. But I know there are enough of us (over 200 on the list, over 40 on the petition, almost 20 in the Mystaran writers) who are interested in Mystara that we are an economic asset...or would be at least... >Over 200 an economic asset? Why should TSR put out material to attract just over 200 people? Suppose they put out a $15 accessory. And suppose 200 of us bought it. What are TSR's revenues? $3,000. >How much do you think it costs to produce 96 page accessories perhaps with a map and sell it for $15? Justifying a print run of 200? Do you think all the TSR writers can take the profit left over home as a paycheck and feed their families? or themselves? or their canary? 3;D> >TSR needs tens of thousands interested in a product to warrant producing >it. Everyone who is interested won't neccessarily buy it. But if only hundreds >of people are interested, it's just not a market to publish to. >A lot of people have contributed a lot of material on this list to the greater glory of Mystara, and that's great.. but this is an e-mail list, and we >are on the World Wide Web (not to belittle us, but to point out our medium).. the expenses involved in posting an E-Mail message or publishing a Web site vs. >publishing in print and distributing through retail channels are very different. >Before we criticize TSR for not publishing, let's realistically look at the size >of the market they see. >If everyone posts on the TSR Online message boards like Bruce has suggested... maybe we can show them we're bigger than they think, but if we only show them we're 200-some people... if we ARE only 200-some people, it's not an economic asset for them to publish for. >-- Stonelight >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. Thomas J. Mahaney II Help Desk Coordinator Office of Information Technologies Lederle Graduate Research Center Lowrise University of Massachuetts Amherst, MA 01003 tmahaney@oit.umass.edu (413) 545-2692 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 11:00:22 -0500 From: "Thomas J. Mahaney" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Newsgroup I would. I would prefer a newsgroup to the current TSR online discussions. >Is there a newsgroup out there dedicated to Mystara yet? Would anyone be interested in one if there was one? >Just curious :) >Nick Vogel >mearlus@globaldialog.com >"But Shalafi, there is not much left if you turn down the world. -Dalamar to Raistlin" >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. Thomas J. Mahaney II Help Desk Coordinator Office of Information Technologies Lederle Graduate Research Center Lowrise University of Massachuetts Amherst, MA 01003 tmahaney@oit.umass.edu (413) 545-2692 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #359 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 14:17:04 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #360 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 67c1ec53cb07c4545a3fb851d6e92406 mystara-digest Friday, May 29 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 360 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please read and respond! Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Tanegioth Archipelago Re: [MYSTARA] - Movie stuff for Mystara??? [MYSTARA] - Question about a great dungeon [MYSTARA] - Mystara Rising Re: [MYSTARA] - Movie stuff for Mystara??? Re: [MYSTARA] - Movie stuff for Mystara??? Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about a great dungeon Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please DO-orignally MystaraRising! Please don't Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf stuff [MYSTARA] - Television stuff for Mystara??? [MYSTARA] - Television stuff for Mystara??? Re: [MYSTARA] - Foresters ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 17:49:19 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please read and respond! Jeff Daly wrote: <> Do you really think if you had informed the others TSR was going closing the line and rallied all your friends to write letters of complaint to TSR they would have refrained from dropping Mystara? Don't fool yourself: we have no faults. We bought what they gave us and we even bought some of the worst stuff, but i think the transition to AD&D gave Mystara the final blow: enough was enough. We couldn't just buy anything with "Mystara" on it simply to have TSR publish other craps like the last ones. It wasn't our fault, i tell you. <> I didn't misunderstand your metaphor, Jeff, quite the contrary. I am telling you that we did and are doing the best we can to support Mystara in the only ways we know. You see, even if all the 200 of us wrote to TSR to reclaim back Mystara, we still wouldn't be a "profitable investment", because 200 fans aren't worth the trouble of publishing new supplements and paying new contributors. I know we must force TSR to acknowledge our efforts and listen to us, but what i'm trying to say is that we're doing the best we can and nothing's happening. We must not blame ourselves if Mystara is still in coma.. <> Yeah, i imagine it.. and for now it is the only thing i can do besides writing for Mystara.. don't ask me more, please ;) <> Well, not to get us, but you cannot ignore that it was in the name of sales and profit that they (TSR) puclished their material. And it was in order to shield their back, so to speak, that they dumped Mystara along with other "unproductive" lines.. I repeat myself: TSR did a bad marketing and had no clear market strategies. They just thought the RPG market could bear anything they produced and when they found out they were wrong, they simply tried to minimize the losses without coming up with any good renewal strategy. In economics, if you only cut the expenses without giving incentives to invest in your products, you will never come out of troubles.. <> Well, that's not exactly the same point. C64 died because there was better stuff on the market (PC8086, then 8286, etc.) It was the natural evolution that caused the C64 downfall.. But look at what happened in RPG market: no other super-ultra-mega-RPG came out to replace D&D. The different gaming systems just co-existed. The TCG simply saturated the market, but they were no "improvement" in RPG sector: they didn't even belong to RPG, yet they choked the gaming market. And TSR didn't foresee this.. <> You're right here: that was a bad move. They should have edited a product that could appeal both to old timers, to other fantasy players (FR or Greyhawk players) and to neophytes. Instead they came out with costly Boxed sets that were a mere reprint of the old material: this way the old timers were not interested (they already had that stuff albeit in a different shape), the neophytes were frightened (high costs and maybe too much stuff) and the other players were not interested (few publicity). <> >From the interviews and the tales i read, it was mainly the fault of the unsold novels (some of them crappy products that had virtually no ties with the campaign world where they should belong -true even with Mystara, see Penhaligon Trilogy) if TSR got more problems than it deserved. <> So, i'm interested now: what campaigns do you think they should have dropped earlier? I'd certainly say Buck Rogers, Gammaworld and Marvel Superheroes (which has just been reopened but as a board/cardgame, if i've understood well -and don't tell me they did it because of fans asking it! ;)). Then what? << What I have seen so far from WotC is good marketing.>> Xena and Hercules TCG is good marketing? And Marvel Superheroes too?.. i am perplexed.. Don't get me wrong: i think they're doing fine with the "big campaigns", notably Ravenloft and Planescape (don't know about Birthrigth and FR, but oh well, if they don't sell FR then it's time to close business and go home!), but they are also making some fausses pas, so to speak.. << We do have power over the situation. And you and I are both using those powers to effect a change. When you and I have adventures and article published, they will be so interesting that people will flock to our banner and demand a revival of the Mystara setting.>> I envy your great hope in the goodness of men. However, as the saying goes: To hope doesn't cost anything, and hope is the last thing to die, so let's keep faith that our words will strike some of the big bosses at WotC and they bring Mystara back to us. <> AD&D conversion? Me?? You're wrong here pal! IF it were for me Mystara would still be D&D (and D&D would still be alive). >Ah, TSR boards... You think TSR will consider reviving Mystara if they see so many posts on the Boards, don't you? <> Due to the imperfections of the system and of the Boards browser, you mean... ;) Tell you what he'll do: he'll curse and maybe start reprogramming that thing in a more decent way.. or maybe he will erase many of those "damn posts".. :p <> Yeah, but this doesn't change the current situation: no current TSR employee has ever come neither to the MML, and as far as i know (i admit i am not an habitué of the MMB), nor to the MMB. Which means they are still ignoring us. Speaking of which, why do you think they decided to revive Greyhawk? Do you think it was because enough fans wrote them and begged them to do it? I don't see so many Greyhawk fans over the net, however.. so what's the truth? <> It may be only a question of time before they reopen Mystara, i hope so, but then again the problem is, as you pointed out, how will this new Mystara look like? Frankly i didn't like the AD&D version, so i am not so sure i would buy new products if they looked that way.. DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 18:41:54 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri >>Who you think would be next high judge after Jherek is dead. >I think Malachie is probably the current Judge-pro-tem. Next year, we can have >a formal vote in the house for the position. Just my opinion, though. Or maybe Isidore. But both of them are probably too chaotic to be Judges (Jherek was lawful). Juliana probably fits best by her personality, and she's not as young as people make her out to be (33 in 1015). Maybe even Carnelia or Carlotina. BTW, has anyone given any though to Juliana's origins (remember she has silver hair unlike her mom's and dad's fiery red)? >>Harald for obvious reasons is not a candidate. Kol or Dolores/Synn migth want that job, but they wouln't get any support. >Kol is Viceroy of the Great Crater, and Dolores is Treasurer. Thye'd have to >give up their positions, and probably wouldn't get any votes. Well, actually a prince can be a Viceroy and something else at the same time. At least that's what GAZ3 implies. ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 18:08:39 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri At 23.10 28/05/98 -0700, Andrew Theisen wrote: OOn Thu, 28 May 1998, Harri M{ki wrote: >>Who you think would be next high judge after Jherek is dead. >I think Malachie is probably the current Judge-pro-tem. Next year, we can have >a formal vote in the house for the position. Just my opinion, though. What about the leader of the House of Sylaire? IIRC Isidore doesn't hold any high positions.. Maybe she could be next Judge.. (support from Malachie and probably Harald, and i'd throw in Jaggar too if she agreed to help him mantaining his title..) DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 12:17:58 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tanegioth Archipelago << I think Thor = Oloron sounds very reasonable. Looking at Norse mythology Thor was not only associated with thunder, but also rain, fertility and agriculture. >> Hm, brought the Antalians traveling to Davania the faith of Thor to Thanegioth? I mean those Antalians who fled the Nithians and transformed into Thyatians later on... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 09:20:51 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Movie stuff for Mystara??? >I actually have come up with some adaptations of RW movies for my Mystara >campaign and i'm planning on writing down an adventure based on action movies that involves... an halfling cook! this adventure will be a crossover of "Die Hard" and Steven Segal's "Trap on.." movies, with the halfling cook (ex member of the Shires Fangs) Stewynn Seagull as main character aiding the PCs.. I know it's crazy, but the crazier the better! ;p I wanted to do a Mystara version of Die Hard with a vengance where the PC became an unsuspecting sidekick to an retired adventurer who job it is to save the city from getting it water supply poisoned. I take life with a grain of salt...a slice of lemon, and a shot tequila. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 18:32:53 +0200 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Question about a great dungeon Hi again! I have a problem: i'm gonna throw my PCs in a super-dungeon at the end of which they'll end up finding the Book they're looking for to bring down the Vortex and revive the One, Creator of the Universe (stuff from my campaign..). Now i planned on using Labyrinth of Madness for the dungeon with some adjustments to fit my plot (no yuan-ti and titans), but it hit me the idea i could use that Labyrinth more properly in another adventure that involves carnifex (IMC they escaped from the Pyts at the end of M3). So this leaves me with a big problem: which dungeon adventure should i use for this adventure? My group is Master level (average lvl is 27-28), the PCs are real powermongers and have got some cool extra powers (though the fighters lack magical weapons!!). I'd like a pre-planned adventure with a great dungeon, either D&D or (more likely, since i know all D&D modules and haven't found anything for my problem) AD&D. I was thinkin about Temple of Elemental Evil.. but i'm not sure what i'll get, and also it's not easy to get it, IIRC... Any suggestions? DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 09:30:30 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Rising Hey all, I've been following this thread for a few days, and wrote a letter to one TSR's designers. Anyway, there's some fairly good news that I thought I might share with this list. 1.There are quite a few people at TSR who are still into Mystara 2.The Designer that I spoke with is going to have "Marketing Research" run some polls to see if a return of Mystara is a good possibility 3.The same Designer is going to see if anyone at TSR is willing to join the list to discuss Mystara's possibilities and such. Now, this person could not make any guarantees, that's why it's only fairly good news- but this person is involved in one of the "mainline" settings and is known for getting things done. Jesse. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 09:42:58 PDT Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 14:17:04 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #360 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 67c1ec53cb07c4545a3fb851d6e92406 From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Movie stuff for Mystara??? >At 14.10 28/05/98 -0400, Daly wrote: >>I am in total awe of you right now. >Ehe, yeah, i know sometimes people react this way with me ;) >>The Alphatian wormhole mass transit system is hijacked by a bunch of Thyatian terrorists. It is taken out to the Astral where the Randel special ops teams can't touch it. >Well, actually i planned staging it on the Sea of Dread, and it involves >plots and counterplots and subplots by the main villains. It would be an >adventure with international repercussions on the Known World (involving >Minrothad, Ierendi, Thyatis, Darokin and even Hule -post WotI). I guess i'll write it for the MystaraWriters in the summer.. Only problem will be >drawing the ship's layout... >>As the pcs stare in bewilderment at the panicking commuters, one halfling >>comes stealthily up the aisle. >>He speaks in a tough-guy voice, "Hey you. You gonna just sit there with >>your oj and your papers, or are you gonna help me squash these guys?" >And as the hin cook shoots at the bad guy right in the middle of the forehead he yells: >"Yippey ya yay, piece o' troll!" I was thinking that it would a Cimmaron-descended Darokinian Swashbuckler named John Mack of the Lane saying "Yippey kie yie yay, you pick of Gnoll$[censored]!!" I take life with a grain of salt...a slice of lemon, and a shot tequila. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 18:54:05 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Movie stuff for Mystara??? At 09.31 29/05/98 EDT, Alex wrote: >The last one, The Usual Suspects, is one I would really love to see. Imagine, the PCs get mixed up in a complicated plot to.....well those that have seen the movie get the idea. Yeah, the main idea behind the plot is that Gargantua knows there is a mage/sage in Darokin who has figured out his real ID and has to dispose of him. So, he uses the PCs (his favourite toys ;)) and another mage (who's in possession of an artifact he's seeking) to kill him without making anyone suspect anything (the second mage will be incriminated, but he won't be able to defend himself since he'll die.. -the second mage fills the role of Dean Keaton, while Gargantua is Verbal and will take active part in the action.. and use the PCs as unknowing witnesses of his trick). I know it's complicated, but hey, that's what Usual Suspects is all about (i wrote even a paper about the Usual Suspects for my filmology course! ;)). >"I do not believe in the Immortals? No But I fear their Wrath" "Well I love the Immortals but I am terrified of Kaiser Sossai" Change in: "A friend of mine once said: 'I don't believe in Immortals but i fear their Wrath.' Well, i tell you: I do believe in Immortals, but the only thing i am terrified of is Gargantua!" >"The greatest trick the devil accomplished was making the world believe he did >not exist" Change the "devil" with Big G. and you got it! >Excellent movie. Classy, suspensefull. Cool. For those that have not seen it, do rent it. And watch it from end to end. It is alot like Hunt For Red October, miss one minute and you are all confused. And i'd say it's also very similar to "The Game", the movie with Michael Douglas playing a deadly Game... anyone seen it? I think it was the best movie i've seen this year.. so far.. I couldn't predict the end even 2 minutes before the final cut.. DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 12:04:41 -0500 (CDT) From: Stephen Dolan Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't On Fri, 29 May 1998, SteelAngel wrote: >On Thu, 28 May 1998, Lord BKis1 wrote: >>areas if they plan to do that again. I suspect a renewed Mystara line would be a AD&D world with some changes. Really not preserving it's uniqueness at all. >Darn right there, unfortunately. I wonder if they'd scrap the whole idea of the immortals altogether, just calling them gods. (AD&D gods are weak excuses for immortals IMHO.) This would facilitate the entrance of mystara as just another AD&D stock world, like Greyhawk, or What-not. I really doubt that TSR would change such a major facet of a campaign world just to have it fit under AD&D rules. IF mystara was resurected it would make no sense to change the world as it is. They would have to make an immortal supplement with new immortal rules as a part of the relaunch. Steve *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 10:02:08 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Derek Harmon wrote: >Stephen Dolan wrote: >>>Except for Aaron Alston, Allen Varney, and Carl Sargeant all the material from TSR since 1985 is 3rd rate. Just check the publication >>I'll have to disagree with you here. I've really enjoyed some stuff >Did Aaron Alston, Allen Varney or Carl Sargeant write that? 3;D> I though Aaron Alston and Ann Dupois wrote some good Mystara Material like the Almanac and WOTI. >>>OD&D game and the Known World setting with mediocre gaming material and abominable product design (e.g. the CDs). They cannot be >>The CD's were bad...I agree. And TSR learned that they were bad and have not published CD's since. >As for the CDs, I don't use them as a whole. But I do use them piecemeal.. every time a door slams or combat breaks out. The sound effects and themes are really useful. "Turn that corner up ahead, uh oh, >DM is playing that music again!" Sometime Sound effect from the CD's breaks the montony of the Game, like for instance in the P.S. Tomb Raider as soon as you reach a pivotal point in the game, you know it by the music being played. Tell that you'd really would like to RPG with any music to set the mood for the Game. >>>only care about the bottom line. They don't love the game. Don't try to day it to Bruce Heard, he loves Mystara, and is continue to develope it even if TSR wouldn't publish any more of plans for future module, accessories, or Campaign Expansion for the Campaign World. >They're businesspeople. They're supposed to care about the bottom line. And like it or not, it's their bottom line that directly reflects the love of their consumers for the game. So ... if their bottom line suffers, we don't love them enough. 3:)> >But by watching over the bottom line, they're sheparding the love of us fans, even if perhaps some of them don't share that love; and others perhaps do. But they are what they are. If their copyright lawyers came down on you for copyright infingement of some derived work, it's because they were TSR's copyright lawyers, not the "minions of Orcus!" 3:)> If that's the Case, then why did they give us an online policy on dragon magazine. >Need to keep some perspective here. >>If they don't love the game why did they almost go bankrupt trying to keep publishing it? Because they were paying a higher price of printing the material. Case and point, the Magic Compedium, their unabridged book of Magic Items and Spells, the Price of Printing each was worth more than their proposed price of selling it, yet they still released because they made a promise to sell it a certain price even if it meant taking a lose per every book sold. so they nearly went broke for publishing a book that more expensive to make than sell. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 13:10:23 EDT From: DuncanTKD@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about a great dungeon If you want a really big dungeon you could always drop 'em into undermountain. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 12:13:58 -0500 (CDT) From: Stephen Dolan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please DO-orignally MystaraRising! Please don't On Fri, 29 May 1998, Thomas J. Mahaney wrote: >If the products are so easily converted, why not include dual statistics? I would much rather have a whole book of material then 1/2 OD&D and 1/2 AD&D. Steve *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 12:22:38 -0500 (CDT) From: Stephen Dolan Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't On Fri, 29 May 1998, Stephen Dolan wrote: >I really doubt that TSR would change such a major facet of a campaign world just to have it fit under AD&D rules. IF mystara was resurected it would make no sense to change the world as it is. They would have to make an immortal supplement with new immortal rules as a part of the relaunch. Let me clearify, New immortal rules in regard to AD&D, makeing them more Mystara like. (When i read it again i didn't think it was very clear) STeve *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 10:47:41 PDT From: "Spencer Graham" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf stuff Hiya, unlurking to ask a question..... >Aren't mages powerful enough already? Do you not realise what a "mere" (in >Mystara) 12th level wizard can do to a Thyatian legion? (This was by Rob) Gotta ask, looking at a standard Imperial Cohort (ala PWA AC1010) 3010 Personnel Composition follows: Commander F12 Deputy Cmdr F10 Heros M9 (times two) C9 (times four) F14 (times two) Banners one through three Captain F6 Lieutenants F4 (times four) Sergeants F3 (times twenty) Soldiers F1 infantry in scale mail and shields with spears and short swords (times 800) Banner four Captain F6 Lieutenants F4 (times four) Sergeants F3 (times twenty) Soldiers F1 infantry in scale mail and shields with spears, heavy crossbows, and short swords (times 800) How does a 12th level Mage take this down (assuming one batch of spells memorized and level-appropriate magic items) alone? The clerics and mages included in the mix alone should be able to neutralize him. (Just wondering) Spencer ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 10:53:45 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Television stuff for Mystara??? >As for TV Shows I converted to MYSTARA, I did a rendition of the Gilligan's Island plot to an adventure called The Vacation, set in Ierendi. >They go on an island tour, a 3-hour tour, a 3-hour tour, and strand them- >selves on a deserted island full of adventure, until they were rescued. how about the following TV series: Mission Impossible The Avengers (british TV series, not the Comic Book) The Mask of Zorro (happen very often in Torreon) Bay Watch The Fugitive U. S. Marshals (The DDC as a Good Replacement, or the IBS of the WDL) Gunsmoke M*A*S*H or Radio Show like The Phantom Doctor Savage or Tarzan Any ideas folks? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 10:53:51 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Television stuff for Mystara??? >As for TV Shows I converted to MYSTARA, I did a rendition of the Gilligan's Island plot to an adventure called The Vacation, set in Ierendi. >They go on an island tour, a 3-hour tour, a 3-hour tour, and strand them- >selves on a deserted island full of adventure, until they were rescued. how about the following TV series: Mission Impossible The Avengers (british TV series, not the Comic Book) The Mask of Zorro (happen very often in Torreon) Bay Watch The Fugitive U. S. Marshals (The DDC as a Good Replacement, or the IBS of the WDL) Gunsmoke M*A*S*H or Radio Shows like The Phantom Doctor Savage or Tarzan Any ideas folks? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 11:16:32 PDT From: "Spencer Graham" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Foresters Sorry for the double quote...... >From: "Jesse LaBranche" To: >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Foresters >Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 21:41:53 -0700 >Reply-To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM >>The idea that a Fighter/Mage (which is basically what a Forester is) cannot cast spells while wearing armor is unique to 2nd edition AD&D -- that rule does not exist in 1st edition AD&D or in any edition of D&D. >Pg. 19 1st edition Player's Handbook on Table II: Armor and weapons permitted. >Armor: none >Shield: none >Weapons: dagger, dart, staff >Sorry, but it is an AD&D ruling, not just 2nd edition. Not that I agree with >it, but... >Jesse. >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. Read carefully the section again...those restrictions are for Mages (Wizards, Magics Users, what have you...) and include Elven Mages. In 1st Ed AD&D PHB page 32 under multiclassed characters "Fighter/Magic-User" "obviously this combination allows excellent armor protection "....on Page 16 under "Elves" "Although able to operate freely with the benefits of armor, weapons and magical items available to the classes the character is operating in, any thieving is restricted to the armor and weaponry usable by the thief class" Note also that there was a human class that was able to use MU type magic while in full armor.....Rangers at level nine gained acces to MU spells....One of the most dangerous power-gaming combos back then was a dual-class human Ranger played to level nine then Dual classed to Magic User. When that fellow gained 10th level as a MU he could then legally wear any armor and use any weapon while casting MU spells. Regards, Spencer ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #360 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 16:27:53 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #361 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 2d71c21a5b57ee0c52d39aafeac52543 mystara-digest Friday, May 29 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 361 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please read and respond! Re: [MYSTARA] - Newsgroup Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Rising Re: [MYSTARA] - Illithids and Kopru Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format Re: [MYSTARA] - Foresters Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please DO-orignally MystaraRising! Please don't Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Re: [MYSTARA] - Movie stuff for Mystara??? Re: [MYSTARA] - Illithids and Kopru [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Realistic approach to levels? (was: Reviving D&D format) Re: [MYSTARA] - Tanegioth Archipelago Re: [MYSTARA] - Television stuff for Mystara??? Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Rising Re: [MYSTARA] - Alamanc in Mystara Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Almanac Re: [MYSTARA] - Ierendi, immortals, and confusion Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Re: [MYSTARA] - Television stuff for Mystara??? Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Rising ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 13:24:02 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please read and respond! DM wrote: >Speaking of which, why do you think they decided to revive Greyhawk? Do you think it was because enough fans wrote them and begged them to do it? I don't see so many Greyhawk fans over the net, however.. so what's the truth? Actually, Greyhawk fandom was pivotal in the return of Greyhawk. They have several groups that were instrumental in seeing the line returned to print. These were determined to keep new Greyhawk material coming out from themselves and not let TSR neglect the setting any longer. TSR's troubles forced its return to be delayed however as it was planned before the WotC buyout. Do a search at one of the search sites. You'll find more websites dedicated to Greyhawk than any other. One thing that Greyhawk fans have over Mystara fans is organization. They were very active on AOL (and continue to be from what I hear) and, like TSR, migrated out to the web. The Council of Greyhawk and the World of Greyhawk Fan Club are the two biggest groups that influenced TSR to return it to the shelves. Each group has produced several items like the Mystara Almanac that included articles from people at TSR. So they had a large outside support and support within the company. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 13:25:30 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Newsgroup Thomas J. Mahaney wrote: >I would. I would prefer a newsgroup to the current TSR online discussions. The message boards are supposed to be upgraded to a newsgroup format in the future. Trouble is that they won't say when. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 13:27:58 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Rising Jesse LaBranche wrote: >Now, this person could not make any guarantees, that's why it's only fairly good news- but this person is involved in one of the "mainline" settings and is known for getting things done. I'm glad you found one that would take an interest in Mystara. BTW, anyone remember when they were supposed to release the results of the survey they did a few months back that included which setting people would like to see returned to print? If they were going to release it, that is. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 19:39:03 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Illithids and Kopru ><> >Could their charm person ability be all that is left of their Psionic/magical >powers? In all the 2nd edition AD+D monster manuals, creatures like Duergar are listed as having magical abilities. They are actually psionic - and this is clarified in the Psionics book - but in the MMs they avoid mention of psionics, for those who dont use them. I see no reason why the Mystara monstrous compendium is any different. Perhaps several monsters in there could be considered to use psionic abilities. I would have thought Kopru would have been a good choice to decide that they are in fact psionic. Cheerz Psionicist loving Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 19:47:03 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format >I think this is a D&D balance issue. Mystara is one of the most magically infused planets on the Prime, magic weapons can practically be bought at stores, and mages are commonplace. Yeah.. *sigh* I know. Its the one thing of Mystara I really do not like. Is it me, or does no one UNDERSTAND what 9th level spells can do? You can forget this "army" thing - they wouldnt exist. An army would just be massacred by a few high level mages - they wouldnt have even the remotest chance. And having standing armies who occasionally go at it (with all their strategic and tactical ramifications) is the thing I probably like the most about Mystara. I consider Mystara to be realistic. And it wouldnt be, if there were large numbers of high level mages wandering around. Ive put forward this point before, I know. But I just had to reply to this one. Besides, I'm a stubborn ******. Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 19:50:24 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Foresters >That's just for single class magic users. For multi-class, read page32-33, 1st Ed PHB >"Fighter/Magic-user: Obviously, this combination allows excellent armor protection, the use of weaponry, and spells." God, I despise 1st edition. I fortunately avoided that one, and stuck with D+D until 2nd ed was well established... 2nd ed is brilliant. oD+D is good. 1st ed is a powergamers dream... Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 14:57:08 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please DO-orignally MystaraRising! Please don't On Fri, 29 May 1998 Inconu@aol.com wrote: >Also, Mystara is not a D&D product to the core. If you think it is, then I'll reluctantly agree with this. Even if Mystara products were AD&D, I'd buy them. Though, they'd go through some game revisions by my hand :) Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 14:44:23 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't On Fri, 29 May 1998, Galwylin wrote: >Realms is the huge success. I fail to see how one can be so bad that its a success while the other is so good that its a failure unless you're saying gamers are dumb. Realms is the huge sucess because it is the single most worked on AD&D setting. When somone first plays AD&D, I'd bet that their first setting is FR. It's a lot more prevalent than any other setting, that's why it is a success, not because it is better, but because it is everywhere. >setting is ever changing then why has it been essentially stable for the past 1000 years? I dunno where you got that from. For 1000 years, sure, the borders haven't changed much, but an amazing amount of events have happened, the Lycanthropic plague, the Rise of Glantri, Al-Kalim's revolution, The formation of Karameikos. Countless skirmishes between Thyatis and Alphatia etc, etc, etc. The Known world was a very different place in 15 AC than it is in 1015 AC. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 15:04:18 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Movie stuff for Mystara??? On Fri, 29 May 1998 Alex295@aol.com wrote: >"The greatest trick the devil accomplished was making the world believe he did ^^^^^^^^^ >not exist" Thanatos would be a better name :) Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 12:14:44 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Illithids and Kopru ON friday 98-05-29 Kaviyd wrote: >In a message dated 98-05-28 15:31:05 EDT, mktriton@hotmail.com writes: >>Some of the Difference between these creature are that the Kopru is not >>known to possess Psionics, AFAIK, or even Happen to have an ability to >>use Magic. Maybe some of you might prove me wrong. >Kopru do possess that "domination" ability that allows them to control others. And they do have a limited ability to become shamans (priests) or wokani (wizards). We don't have much of any ecology like the Illithid, but maybe the survival of a few of their Tadpoles, in the communal Hot spots in the Oceans, and Sea to the Point of even Eating Each others when food was Scarce, and who to say that they really don't perform Ceremosis ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 21:41:39 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Realistic approach to levels? (was: Reviving D&D format) On Fri, 29 May 1998, Rob wrote: >>I think this is a D&D balance issue. Mystara is one of the most magically infused planets on the Prime, magic weapons can practically be bought at stores, and mages are commonplace. >Yeah.. *sigh* I know. Its the one thing of Mystara I really do not like. Is it me, or does no one UNDERSTAND what 9th level spells can do? You can forget this "army" thing - they wouldnt exist. An army would just be massacred by a few high level mages - they wouldnt have even the remotest chance. And having standing armies who occasionally go at it (with all their strategic and tactical ramifications) is the thing I probably like the most about Mystara. >I consider Mystara to be realistic. And it wouldnt be, if there were large numbers of high level mages wandering around. >Ive put forward this point before, I know. But I just had to reply to this one. Besides, I'm a stubborn ******. I think it needs to be said quite a few times Rob, so thanks for taking the job :) High level people are special, and rare. They are not walking around. I think it it reasonable to assume that the only high level characters on Mystara are those mentioned in the Gaz's and the PCs. I'm not saying that the Game Master cannot add his own powerful NPCs, but most of them are likely to have a power base. They will fill roles similar to the princes of glantri, Teldon, Terari, etc. Those of slightly lower level will be mayors, the councilors of barons, leaders of brigands etc. They will not be wandering around looking for random encounters. Each GM (or DM for those who are not familiar with non-TSR games :P ) has to decide what style he likes ofcourse, but he should be aware of the implications of throwing about powerful NPCs. I remember playing with a GM who would come up with 36th level NPCs who just happened to be in the bar where we started a fight. Okay it can happen, but not at every bar fight. I too, subscribe the the realistic approach to Mystara. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 21:44:43 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tanegioth Archipelago On Fri, 29 May 1998 JamugaKhan@aol.com wrote: ><< I think Thor = Oloron sounds very reasonable. Looking at Norse mythology TThor was not only associated with thunder, but also rain, fertility and agriculture. >> >Hm, brought the Antalians traveling to Davania the faith of Thor to Thanegioth? I mean those Antalians who fled the Nithians and transformed into Thyatians later on... That is certainly a possibility Khan. Even if the people developing the Thanegioth, use this idea, it is worth noting that a lot of Antalian customs could still exist in Davania. Ofcourse, Thor could have been spreading his "wisdom" without too much human aid. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 15:45:56 -0500 From: "Thomas J. Mahaney" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Television stuff for Mystara??? I like the Fugitive and Mission Impossible ideas, but Baywatch? How exactly would that work? Some other possible shows: Time Tunnel Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 16:27:53 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #361 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 2d71c21a5b57ee0c52d39aafeac52543 Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea >>As for TV Shows I converted to MYSTARA, I did a rendition of the Gilligan's Island plot to an adventure called The Vacation, set in IIerendi. >>They go on an island tour, a 3-hour tour, a 3-hour tour, and strand tthem- >>selves on a deserted island full of adventure, until they were rescued. >how about the following TV series: >Mission Impossible >The Avengers (british TV series, not the Comic Book) The Mask of Zorro (happen very often in Torreon) Bay Watch >The Fugitive >U. S. Marshals (The DDC as a Good Replacement, or the IBS of the WDL) Gunsmoke >M*A*S*H >or Radio Show like >The Phantom >Doctor Savage >or Tarzan >Any ideas folks? >______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. Thomas J. Mahaney II Help Desk Coordinator Office of Information Technologies Lederle Graduate Research Center Lowrise University of Massachuetts Amherst, MA 01003 tmahaney@oit.umass.edu (413) 545-2692 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 20:58:08 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Rising >Hey all, >I've been following this thread for a few days, and wrote a letter to one TSR's designers. Anyway, there's some fairly good news that I thought I might share with this list. >1.There are quite a few people at TSR who are still into Mystara 2.The Designer that I spoke with is going to have "Marketing Research" run some polls to see if a return of Mystara is a good possibility 3.The same Designer is going to see if anyone at TSR is willing to join the list to discuss Mystara's possibilities and such. >Now, this person could not make any guarantees, that's why it's only fairly good news- but this person is involved in one of the "mainline" settings and is known for getting things done. >Jesse. Well, we can only hope. Heres hoping! Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 14:25:34 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alamanc in Mystara At 14.17 28/05/98 -0400, SteelAngel wrote: >Ah, but if you let the PC's buy a copy, remember to remove the sections dealing with the events of the upcoming year. That's a campaign spoiler. No problem here, since the Almanac deals with events of the previous years. The 1015 Almanac has events about 1015, but is supposed to be published in 1016, so the PC won't learn about future events. They will just get to know what happened in far away places the previous year. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 21:08:28 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't >>>areas if they plan to do that again. I suspect a renewed Mystara line would >>>be a AD&D world with some changes. Really not preserving it's uniqueness at >>>all. I fail to see how a change of rules changes Mystara. Its the campaign setting that matters - it doesnt really matter whether the Alfheimers are Elves or Elven Fighter/Mages now, does it? All that matters is that these elves actually exist in a TSR release... I had a poll with my friends about this. They all think that Mystara is one of the best (some think it the best) campaign setting. However, none of them want anything to do with D+D - they are all AD+D to the core. Probably true of most of the TSR market, really. I dont care what rules they bring out. I use AD+D at the moment - that involves converting all of the Gazs to AD+D. I think there is no work involved there at all, really. Just multiply the level by two thirds and your there... Equally, if they rerelease Mystara in AD+D format it would be easy to convert it back to D+D. Easier, even. Supposedly 3rd edition is coming out soon. What I would love to see (fat chance) is Mystara being their pet world which they convert to 3rd ed. Greyhawk made it to greatness on the back of 1st ed, and FR on the back of 2nd. A Mystaran rerelease as the first campaign world using 3rd ed rules could really lift it off. >>Darn right there, unfortunately. I wonder if they'd scrap the whole idea of the immortals altogether, just calling them gods. Well, they didnt in G:KoM and K:KoA. Or Red Steel. And Mystara was advertised as an AD+D setting as having "powerful Immortals". I think Immortals are the one thing that really sets Mystara apart, and I doubt they'll get rid of that. (AD&D gods are weak >>excuses for immortals IMHO.) heh heh. I'm with you on this one (it really winds the Planescape DM up around here too! But Ive converted him, and he thinks that Ixion is the coolest DEITY of them all...) Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 22:09:32 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Almanac On Mon, 25 May 1998, JamugaKhan wrote: ><< >This is worth considering. However, having read a litle about American history, I started thinking about the US Midwest. That region was once considered the great American Desert, but after some improvements in agriculture the lands were transformed into a very fertile area. A litle magic might do the trick... :) >Håvard >> >Hm, yes, and right now US Americans have to discover that it wasn't a good idea. With a little magic from underground working shamans the steppes would prove disastrous for every farmer. Ofcourse! That conflict could get interesting. Personally I would like to see the Ethengarians moved elsewhere. I like them, but I dont like them in the middle of the civilized world, if you take my meaning. It would be great to have them go west or something and regain their position there... All IMO ofcourse. Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 22:12:17 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ierendi, immortals, and confusion On Tue, 26 May 1998, Dominique Rivard wrote: >In Ierendi the native worship the immortals through druidic principles. There are also two main church: >*The People's temple* is the most attended, perhaps because it's an informal religion. Each community has its own ceremony and magic is often diplayed. It's talking about love and generosity. No know immortal involve, just a certain *force*. Bruce suggested that they got their spells from Diulanna, Patroness of Will. (Though her identity would remain anonymous to her followers.) >*The Eternal Thruth* is the other. It has taken its place among the military elite (because of it's aggressivity) and with the traders conducting business with the "powerful" seafaring Ylari traders. Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 15:13:52 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't SteelAngel wrote: >Realms is the huge sucess because it is the single most worked on AD&D setting. When somone first plays AD&D, I'd bet that their first setting is FR. It's a lot more prevalent than any other setting, that's why it is a success, not because it is better, but because it is everywhere. That's how it maintains its success. Had it been a bad setting to start with it would be in the discontinue section with Mystara. The Realms is better than Mystara for a number of reasons. The biggest one is that Mystara hasn't had its potential realized yet. If it has reached its potential than the movement to have it returned is groundless. Mystara is my favorite because of the possibilities it has not because what has been released so far is grand. The vastness and diversity of the Realms could easily be found in Mystara. The political landscape of Birthright would have thrived in Mystara. Mystara was created piece by piece with no one person over all the pieces. Until its presented as a complete setting, it potential will never be realized. That was the mistake of the AD&D conversion. Not the conversion but that it wasn't seen as complete by even TSR. Some Greyhawk fans have expressed concern that Greyhawk is being released piecemeal this year because its not offering one set that gives a buyer the setting complete (its planned for next year if anyone's interested). They have reason to be concern as no setting attracts new players when you get a little bit here and little there. I found Mystara (the Known World) actually in X1 with very little information to go on. Much of what I had done was scrapped when I discovered the Gazetteers. Fortunately, I found them all at once (only had to wait on the Shadow Elves to be released) which did give me a quasi-world veiw of Mystara. So in order to grab a new buyer of Mystara, they have to follow Forgotten Realms proven path to success. Release the setting as a whole and add the suppliments later. >I dunno where you got that from. For 1000 years, sure, the borders haven't changed much, but an amazing amount of events have happened, the Lycanthropic plague, the Rise of Glantri, Al-Kalim's revolution, The formation of Karameikos. Countless skirmishes between Thyatis and Alphatia etc, etc, etc. Well, you said so yourself in your reply. The borders haven't changed. A lot has happened over the past 1000 years but its mostly been confined within the affected nations with nothing breaking the stability that has existed. The countless skirmishes between Thyatis and Alphatia is the worst example of this. Take the nations a 1000 years earlier and compare them to 1000 AC. What changed? - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 13:16:54 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Television stuff for Mystara??? >I like the Fugitive and Mission Impossible ideas, but Baywatch? How exactly would that work? Trust me, someone will figure out the Baywatch idea. >Some other possible shows: >Time Tunnel >Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea Time Tunnel is good, But how about Quantum Leap or Slider? I take life with a grain of salt...a slice of lemon, and a shot tequila. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 13:13:28 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Rising >>Jesse >>Now, this person could not make any guarantees, that's why it's only fairly good news- but this person is involved in one of the "mainline" settings and is known for getting things done. >Galwylin >I'm glad you found one that would take an interest in Mystara. BTW, anyone remember when they were supposed to release the results of the survey they did a few months back that included which setting people would like to see returned to print? If they were going to release it, that is. I think that the results of the survey you're talking about was the return of Greyhawk. Not too sure on that one though. Well, this person and I have sent a couple more letters back and forth, and I guess I get to keep anyone who's interested updated. So here's the basic gist of the letters... I mentioned that there were no TSR people on the Mystara list "I guess we just didn't realize that Mystara didn't have anyone listed. We were always so used to Bruce Heard championing it, but since he no longer works here, we should find someone else to take his place!" I also asked if there was some way that Mystara supporters could take an active part in the "Marketing Research" or otherwise make themselves heard... "As for the research, I'm not sure how they go about it exactly, but I believe it is supposed to be random. However they can always write to Bill Slavicsek (TSR Director) or Peter Adkison (WotC CEO) about their concerns and requests. They are actually very eager to hear what our customers want!" Now, I took the liberty of looking up the e-mail addresses of these two people and here they are: Peter Adkison: mavra@wizards.com Bill Slavicsek: Bills@wizards.com I'd say that the time to write the letters on that end would be now as this designer is putting in the suggestion today (more than likely), and a consistent discussion with the "big guys" should help incredibly. One of the things that got my attention, and I presume this person's was the intelligent understanding of the market, and the fervor with which this list speaks of Mystara. I think that someone should probably get a sort of a petition together with thoughts on why Mystara fell through the first time, how to make it marketable and attract the crowds that other worlds do, etc. IMO, Mystara turned over to AD&D could rival the FR setting with little to know problem. RL is actually my bag, but I believe that Mystara is/was/always will be better than FR. Thoughts, feedback, ideas ? Jesse. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #361 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 17:08:36 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #362 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 32af71171f9652fcf807356a3fa69398 mystara-digest Friday, May 29 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 362 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Re: [MYSTARA] - Foresters Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please DO-orignally MystaraRising!Please don't [MYSTARA] - Fixed Logo Contest FAQ (Better late than never) Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't [MYSTARA] - Just what can a 12th level mage do to a Thyatian Legion? A lot! Re: [MYSTARA] - Foresters Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't [MYSTARA] - Almanac Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Almanac Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't [MYSTARA] - Some words on Hule [MYSTARA] - Nothings Changed ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 15:17:03 -0700 From: Joseph Elric Smith Servant to Arioch Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't I've been waiting to comment. I started out playing d&d a long time ago, and as I recall mystara originally lacked a world view and it was only slowly over time finally was the world fully developed as you see it now. I think that was what the original plan was when the redid mystara was to start with the kingdom of adventure and then slowly add on, first with gilantra and then slowly expanding still, but then money problem etc., caused the project to stall.ken >>an overall setting. Mystara lacks a world veiw as it is seen as many settings on a single world and the contrast are just marked off as 'its fantasy'. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 16:30:58 EDT From: BoBoII@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Foresters Does not the First Ed. say that multi class can use the weapons and armor of the fighter portion. Don't have my 1st Ed with me. Can you check under Multi- class ruling. I know there were several multi-class npc's in the variousmodules who took advantage of this combination of spells/armor/weapons. thanks BoBoII *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 16:31:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Galwylin wrote: >I don't see how you can say that. Mystara is the dead setting and the Realms is the huge success. Success in what terms? The sheer number of products put out? I really haven't encountered many FR fans in my life, but I've heard TONS of criticism about the setting. Whereas I rarely have bumped into a critic of Mystara (not that I found many Mystara fans before joining the list). FFrom personal experience, I'd say there's a large number of negative views about FR out there, hardly making it a 'huge success', except from a marketing viewpoint. >If the setting is ever changing then why has it been essentially stable ffor the past 1000 years? Well, what I personally like about Mystara is it did not undergo any major changes. Most of the projects (GAZes+HWRs, Hollow World+DoTE boxed sets) just further detailed the world without making it constantly change. What turned me off to Dragonlance is that every few years, the entire world undergoes some cataclysmic event. Give me a mostly stable world anyday. "Football combines the two worst things about America: it is violence punctuated by committee meetings." -- George Will *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 16:34:52 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please DO-orignally MystaraRising!Please don't >However, if they simply >"start over" with a pure AD&D Mystara group of products, who would buy them? New players already have their choice of a number of other AD&D campaign worlds. Anyone that plays in AD&D would be able to try it out. Like when Birthright came out. Players bought the first campaign setting and either junked it or started campaigns in it. That's why you can find so many books out on Birthright even though it is such a new campaign setting. If Mystara was brought back under the OD&D system, they wouldn't get many AD&D players, due to the different basic systems. Also, players that are starting to play D&D now, will be using AD&D rules, not OD&D due to the fact that there are many more AD&D books that have been created and also, the OD&D books aren't on the shelves in stores anymore. See what I mean? >If the products are so easily converted, why not include dual statistics? Probably so they don't confuse the mass of the players. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 14:34:01 +0000 From: Elton Robb Subject: [MYSTARA] - Fixed Logo Contest FAQ (Better late than never) - --------------EB9550401997C5EC3BC564B2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, :) Sean has greatfully pointed out an oversight to the FAQ. I had the judging all wrong, so I corrected the FAQ. Here it is. =97 Elton Robb Knight of the Crown -----------------------------------------------------------------------= - - Everyone,Here is a "FAQ" on the contest as it stands. SC Net Logo Q and A. Q. Which one of us is going to host the site? A. It looks like Steven Winson wishes to host the site. Don't worry,Steve, you and Michael can both host a web site for the net logos. Depending on how much space you both have, one can take most of thelogos than the other. Q. Has anyone echoed this to the Mystara List? A. Yes. From the beginning, I have been posting updates about theContest on the Mystara listserve. Q. What sort of logo file formats are you looking for? A. The logos can be either GIF, animated GIF, or JPEG formats. Q. What is involved in judging? A. It is democracy in Action (excuse me, I was wrong). After all the logos are collected and posted, we all vote for the logo and the judge tallys the vote and declares the winner. Thanks Sean. Q. Where do we submit? A. You may submit here: http://www.demiplane.net/savagecoast.html. Or to Michael Morris, who may send me his e-mail address so I can post it to this FAQ. - --------------EB9550401997C5EC3BC564B2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi,  :)

Sean has greatfully pointed out an oversight to the FAQ.  I had the judging all wrong, so I corrected the FAQ.  Here it is.

=97 Elton Robb
Knight of the Crown


Everyone,Here is a "FAQ" on the contest as it stands.
SC Net Logo Q and A.

Q. Which one of us is going to host the site?

A. It looks like Steven Winson wishes to host the site. Don't worry,St= eve, you and Michael can both host a web site for the net logos. Depending on how much space you both have, one can take most of thelogos than the othe= r.

Q. Has anyone echoed this to the Mystara List?

A. Yes. From the beginning, I have been posting updates about theConte= st on the Mystara listserve.

Q. What sort of logo file formats are you looking for?

A. The logos can be either GIF, animated GIF, or JPEG formats.

Q. What is involved in judging?

A. It is democracy in Action (excuse me, I was wrong).  After all= the logos are collected and posted, we all vote for the logo and the judg= e tallys the vote and declares the winner.  Thanks Sean.

Q. Where do we submit?
 

A. You may submit here: http://www.demiplane.net/savagecoast.html.  Or to Michael Morris, who may send me his e-mail address so I can post it to this FAQ. - --------------EB9550401997C5EC3BC564B2-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 16:38:42 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Steel Angel wrote: >Did they discontinue the Gaz's because of poor sales, or was it becaus they described everything they wanted too? If I remember correctly, there were no vaporware gaz's, so that implies that they were finished with the product line after Atruaghin. Not exactly. In one issue of Dragon there was a statement saying that Gazetteers on Hule, the Heldann Freeholds, and Wendar were in the works. This was around 1991-1992 or so, in a questions/answers section of the Princess Ark series. I think these projects were axed when Mystara was converted over to AD&D. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 21:42:26 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Just what can a 12th level mage do to a Thyatian Legion? A lot! >Hiya, unlurking to ask a question..... >>Aren't mages powerful enough already? Do you not realise what a ""mere" (in >>Mystara) 12th level wizard can do to a Thyatian legion? >(This was by Rob) >Gotta ask, looking at a standard Imperial Cohort (ala PWA AC1010) 3010 Personnel >Composition follows: >Commander F12 >Deputy Cmdr F10 >Heros M9 (times two) >C9 (times four) >F14 (times two) >Banners one through three >Captain F6 >Lieutenants F4 (times four) >Sergeants F3 (times twenty) >Soldiers F1 infantry in scale mail and shields with spears and short swords (times 800) >Banner four >Captain F6 >Lieutenants F4 (times four) >Sergeants F3 (times twenty) >Soldiers F1 infantry in scale mail and shields with spears, heavy crossbows, and short swords (times 800) >How does a 12th level Mage take this down (assuming one batch of spells memorized and level-appropriate magic items) alone? The clerics and mages included in the mix alone should be able to neutralize him. >(Just wondering) >Spencer Oops! Typo! I meant 20th level. But a unique challenge... (reaches for the PHB...) Death Spell (thats an average of 40 guys dead right there, at a range of over 120 yards) Control Weather (bye bye, fleet!) Lower Water (as above) Polymorph Self (turn into sea elf, sneak up underwater, and see above... :) Or turn into umber hulk, and burrow through castle walls and that sort of thing) Contingency (no killing this guy, he'll have teleported back to base before he dies) Ensnarement (bring on the immune to nonmagical weapon hydraxes/helions/krysts/tanari'ri etc. etc.) Invisibility (cant kill what u cant see) Fly (combined with invisibility - no sound of footsteps) Suggestion ("you can go about your business - he's not the mage we're looking for...") Fireball (40' across? actually a little bigger, as the fireball would be a hemisphere. Thats one barracks well alit, killing anyone within it - then the mage leaves, comes back next night. And next night. And next night...) Reduce (you aint going to spot the 1" tall mage slinging death spells, fireballs etc.) Chaos (that'll start a brawl - and a distraction - and clerics dont even get a save!) Seeming (turn yourself, and your mates, into soldiers) Summon Shadow (immune to nonmagical weapons, make more shadows when you kill the soldiers! And 100% undetectable in darkness - ie nighttime) Transmute Rock to Mud (castles will never be the same again) Magic Jar (watch the soldiers play "find the mage and his magic jar..." - but sadly the mage is polymorphed into an umber hulk and is actually 60' underground... meanwhile they are being possessed and committing suicide at the rate of one a round - silently, and at night, while they sleep) Fire Charm (affects all those looking at the flame - like, the entire army) Stoneskin (even if the mage does get pinned down, this spell buys him time to leg it) Massmorph (hide your own forces as a forest) Ice Storm (double the area effect of fireball - kills all low level guys in an 80' diameter circle - thats a big area! Get em while on parade and u could get a body count of at least 30 with one spell alone!) Protection from Normal Missiles (archers are no longer a problem) (sorry about the exhaustive list, tring to prove a point...) Presumably the heroes will be trying to stop this. 2 14th level fighters and 4 9th level clerics. Well, the fighters are irrelevant when stoneskin is taken into account. And hold person. True, the clerics can cast spells. But they will find it very, very hard (like impossible) to counter some of the obscenity ive described above. OK - protection from evil against magic jar... Doesnt protect the little soldiers tho! And its the soldiers that are the key. Theres also this thing called "morale". After half of the garrison has been attacked by shadows at night/torn limb from limb by tanari/had their Immortal Soul destroyed by death spell/been attacked by the animated remnants of their comrades they will no longer be an effective fighting force. And to end this - you have to kill/capture that mage. Very hard, when he can slip off with a word, and come back next night, to wreak more havoc. After a week of this all those soldiers will have had enough. All the spells used above are standard PHB spells (a D+D mage would be weaker, admittedly) usable by a 12th level wizard. Imagine what 9th level spells could do.... Now imagine what entire fleets of these high level mages could do. And there are fleets of high level mages on Mystara. Look at Alphatia! Conservative estimate - 10 20th level (AD+D) mages, working together, at any one time? Goodbye, Thyatian legion. Trust me. Ive had high level parties in Spelljammer storm heavily defended drow armadas without any problem at all. (and the party wasnt even that gross!). And ive also had a similar thing on the Savage Coast involving a Vilaverdan galleon (by "galleon" i mean 40 cannon ship holding 300+ men - and they had Legacies!) This is a long post - and probably one that most people wouldnt like either. Just an example... The Thyatian Legion proudly marches across the Isle of Dawn, ready to Kick Ass in the Name of the Emperor. One night, while they are camped, a single Alphatian 20th level mage shadow walks into their camp and scouts out the entire place. He then reduces himself to 1" high, flies above the camp with the protection of prot from normal missiles, invisibility, stoneskin, and non detection, and volleys off three death spells. This kills 120 men - silently, in their beds. He could probably sling off a few more before hes noticed, but hes being conservative. He then teleports without error back to his tower in Alphatia. The next day he casts magic mirror and scries one of the soldiers. He reduces Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 17:08:36 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #362 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 32af71171f9652fcf807356a3fa69398 himself to 1" tall and teleports back... ready to unleash his next fiendish plan... Cheerz ROB (give me a 20th level mage, and I will move the world...) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 16:39:20 EDT From: BoBoII@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Foresters In a message dated 98-05-29 02:31:44 EDT, it was written: << Anyway, what it boils down to, at least in 1st edition terms, are Foresters multiclass or dual class? (Multi-class would be my opinion, as humans can multi-class in some AD&D settings - Lankhmar for instance). Sure. the whole process of "Adoption" into a clan, makes them, for all intents and purposes, Elves. Just no special racial abilities and a really short life span. The process should be rare, I feel, and I like to keep it that way IMC. But it poses the question . . .could a normal fighter who has done a great service to a clan, then become a forester by adoption. I mean, can the elves just "tell" who is going to be worthy later on? I s it a rare event when the forester boys and girls are lead before the clan Relic to be selected? Just riffing here. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 16:42:48 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Derek Harmon said: >>The original GAZ format would be good; though I'd rather see it AD&D. SteelAngel said: >BUT include a handy table at the end of every set that includes rules to transform it to D&D rules. There is far too much invested in the D&D rules system to completely drop it like a stone, and there are a lot of hard core D&D'ers out there who refuse to play AD&D. Right on! I am also a hard-core D&Der. Sure, I have modified the rules somewhat ( who hasn't?), but the basic system is the same. I think it would be ratehr tragic if all that work invested in those rules were simply thrown away. D&D works, so does AD&D, but D&D simply works. Geoff (also a D&D fanatic, who would buy D&D products if they came out) - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 13:44:01 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Almanac The Mystara Online's own Almanac 1015 is now 50% Right now, all section prior to the Year in Review are now completed with the Exception of the Autruaghin entry, and the Missing Information on the Hollow world. Check it at Http://members.tripod.com/~mktriton/1015Almanac.html To get to the Almanac page. Or go to Http://members.tripod.com/~mktriton/index.html to get to the main page. within thirty minutes of the post, I should be finished htmling the Months of Nuwmont and Vatermont. Later. I take life with a grain of salt...a slice of lemon, and a shot tequila. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 15:44:51 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Almanac Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: >Ofcourse! That conflict could get interesting. Personally I would like to see the Ethengarians moved elsewhere. I like them, but I dont like them in the middle of the civilized world, if you take my meaning. It would be great to have them go west or something and regain their position there... All IMO ofcourse. I'm working on doing just that. Ethengar becomes a disputed land between the Heldennics, the united Northern Reaches and the reconquered Alfheim allied with Wendar. The clans get caught in the middle and are crushed in the power struggle that forces them to invade parts of Glantri in their migration. All part of the winds of war that have replaced the power vacuum of Thyatis and Alphatia. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 16:47:15 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't >Given the activity on this list, I hardly think "dead" is the correct term. Look at Greyhawk. This campaign world was supposedly dead too! I believe he was talking about in the eyes of everyone that's not on this list. Most importantly, WotC. >First of all, TSR put A LOT more resources behind Forgotten Realms, especially in >terms of Novels. Secondly, TSR did a pretty poor job of releasing new material for Mystara after it became an AD&D setting. Why would you expect TSR to put more resources to a less profitable campaign setting? The reason Forgotten Realms has so many novels, is because of how successful the setting is. It would be foolish to hold back on the resources on that setting for another setting. << Most of the products were rehashes of previously released materials - but at substantially higher prices. Gamers are not dumb, they simply gravitate towards better products and/or marketing, which FR provided. However, I agree with SteelAngel - Mystara is a much more interesting setting.>> What did you expect TSR to do? Remember they were releasing it as a new campaign setting for the ad&d players. Of course some material would be from previous sources, but they even updated the world so the previous players would get something out of it too. Also, i do agree that Mystara is a much more interesting setting, actually the most interesting setting, which is why...i believe..... most of us are here. >Perhaps, but I am not one of them. If I want to play an elf in AD&D, I need to figure out: what type of elf, which class/combination of classes, which "kit", etc. I find this waaaay too complicated. If I wanted to play in that detailed a system, I would use Harn. Although OD&D started introducing different types of elves, the situation was never as complex as AD&D. Well then don't use those options. That's all they are....is options. You don't have to use a kit, pick a type of elf, or be multiclassed....... - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 16:53:35 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Some words on Hule A friend of mine, a student of history, found a text about Hule in the internet and has something to say. Therefore I will publish his thoughts at this place. Anyhow, the author of the original text is a MML member. I will not defend it as I'm not the author: SOME THOUGHTS ON HULE (Hule2.hml) Jennifer Favia ("Valerya") valerya@hotmail.com The thoughts about Hule are interesting, but some historical references in the text are incomplete or wrong. 1) Janissaries. Janissaries (Hulean cavalry) were an elite corps of young Christians recruited into the army of the Ottoman Empire under the devshirme system (recruiting young Christians to Islam) of the late 15th century. 2) Desert Nomad Warriors. The Seljuks (pre-Ottoman Turkish dynasty, 11th-13th centuries) relied on an army of nomadic warriors until the development of armies of slaves in the early 12th. Ad 1) und 2): The Janissaries (new army) were foot soldiers. They were only a little part of the ottoman army (ca. 5%-10%) and were founded in late 14th century. Besides the desvhirme the janissaries recruited prsoners of war in the beginning (15 th century). There were no "Desert Nomad Warriors" in the army, because all nomadic warrios (mameluks) originated from Central Asia. There weapons and lifestyle were these of the Ethengars. They were even so powerful, that they formed the government sometimes (Egypt). 3.) A Highly Intricate Bureaucracy [. Another Seljuk development, one which lasted into the Ottoman years and the Turkish Republic (modern). Ad 3: The pre-ottoman Bureaucracy are very low intricate (it was in the 13th - -15th centuries the best and modern administration in Europa). From 16 th century there was increasing corruption. 5.) Approximate Size. Hule: 256,000 sq mi; Turkey: 300,000 sq mi. Ad 5: The territory of modern Turkey was conquered in 1566 (Siege of Vienna 1529). The main part of conquests was in Europe. Ottoman Empire (late 16th century): ca. 3,000,000 sp mi (Alphatia and Belessaria). 6.) Nearly Unchecked Expansion. Within a century of its founding (Osman I, 13th century), the Ottoman Empire comprised territory from the Danube to the Euphrates, including Greece. In 1453, Mehmed II conquered Constantinople, the last Byzantine stronghold. (It was Mehmed who founded the Janissaries.). Suleiman I (16th century) took Iraq, Hungary, and Albania and established Ottoman naval supremacy in the Mediterranean. Ad 6: The janissaries existed already long before Mehmed II. 7.) Nomenclature. The Byzantine Empire was a continuation of the Roman Empire which--converted to Christianity and using Greek as its principal language but Latin for most of its nomenclature --wasn't fully conquered by the Ottomans until 1453. So we're looking for Thyatian- or Traldar-style names here how's "Hosadus"? (compare to Heraclius, Photius, Comnenus, Pontus all BYZANTINE names, not Roman. Furthermore, what of the name "Bozdogan"? He is, after all, a Hulean version of "Loki." Because of the consonants, my first thought was perhaps Assyria or Babylonia, but that didn't quite pan out (see some thoughts on them, below). Then guess what? I found out that the first people to unify Anatolia (ancient Asiatic Turkey) were the Hittites, an Indo-European confederation that subdued the kingdoms of the central plateau about 1750 BCE. Their capital was called BOGAZKOY (Hattusa). Well, that convinced me. (This also fits with the almost-but-not-quite Central European feel of many of the town names). Ad 7: In the eastern part of the Roman Empire Greece always was the common and administration language (compare to Canada). The last latine sources from the eastern part are from 7th century. The Latin names Heraclius ( greek: Herakles), Photius (greek: Phontios), Pontus (greek: Pontos) can be found in Latin textes from 3 th century BC. BTW, names on "-us" are Latin, names on "-os" are Greece. I think Hule can be compared with the realm of the Safiva. They invaded in the 15th century from East and Central Anatolia coming the Iran. Their power based on the order of the Safiva (an order of dervishes; holy man). 1514 they must leave Anatolia after a defeat by the Ottoman. Literatur INALCIK, HALIL, The Ottoman Empire: Conquest, Organization ans Economy. London 1978 KÁLDY-NAGY, GYULA, The First Centuries of the Ottoman Military Organization. in: Acta Orientalia Academiae Scientiarum Hungaricae 31, 1977, S. 147-183 PALMER, J. A. B., The origin of the janissaries. The John Rylands Library. S. 448-481 RUNCIMAN, STEVEN, The fall of Constantinople. Cambrigde 1965 SHAW, STANFORD J., History of the Ottoman empire and modern Turkey, Vol 1, Empire of the Gazis: The rise and decline of the Ottoman empire, 1280-1808, Cambridge 1977 Jamuga Khan (for a friend) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 22:12:04 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Nothings Changed >Well, you said so yourself in your reply. The borders haven't changed. A lot has happened over the past 1000 years but its mostly been confined within the affected nations with nothing breaking the stability that has existed. The countless skirmishes between Thyatis and Alphatia is the worst example of this. Take the nations a 1000 years earlier and compare them to 1000 AC. What changed? I dont know about that. Lets cast our minds back to the year the first Thyatian emperor was crowned... Pretty well everything east of Thyatis was Alphatian. Ylaraum was just beginning to be created, as Alasiyan nomads began moving in. Darokin was a wilderness, not a nation at all. Ierendi was completely different, only the Makai were there. Glantri was just more wilderness, populated by a scattering of elves. Alfheim was still just like it is now (its only a couple of generations for elves, after all). The Northern Reaches didnt have three kingdoms (jarldoms?) like nowadays, it was composed of lots of little petty warlords and reavers. Norwold was similar. The Minrothadders hadnt discovered each others islands (puzzling, as they are only just over the horizon!). The Heldannic Territories was still the Heldannic Freeholds - probably one of the more powerful barbarian nations of time. The Ethengars were pretty similar to as they are now, so at the time they were a powerful nation... heh heh heh (thats aimed at u, Khan!). The Broken Lands were around, as they had been made 700 years prior. Just look what has happened in that 1000 years!!!! Ierendi was colonised, turned into a penal colony, became a pirate dictatoship, and ended up the Mystaran equivalent of Hawaii. Darokin went through barbarian to kingdom to republic to plutocracy. Glantri went from elven kingdom to Flaemish to Alphatian colony to amalgamation of principalities. Ylaraum went from wilderness to Thyatian colony to Alphatian colony to independent... the list goes on and on. Now compare it to the real world. Borders dont often change, as a rule - countries are occupied, but only rarely do the borders undergo major change. The borders of England have been more or less unchanged since the Roman Empire. All the other European countries have all bee around a long time, more or less unchanged. Not dissimilar to the Mystaran version of Europe - the Known World. What has happened are wars, colonisation, occupation, power shifts, religious shifts etc. etc. Also not dissimilar to the KW. The lack of technological advance could be explained by magical advancement instead. And so on... There is just so much that has happened! Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #362 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 18:45:24 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #363 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 7189a01ef502bf9080b63533ce2d147d mystara-digest Friday, May 29 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 363 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Rising..petition [MYSTARA] - Foresters/ 1st-2nd ed. comparison. Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Rising Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac Stuff Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about a great dungeon Re: [MYSTARA] - Television stuff for Mystara??? Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Re: [MYSTARA] - Alamanc in Mystara [MYSTARA] - Hollow World Shadowfall Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Re: [MYSTARA] - Nothings Changed Re: [MYSTARA] - Just what can a 12th level mage do to a Thyatian Legion? A lot! [MYSTARA] - The Petition letter... Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't [MYSTARA] - Looking Out My Window... Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 17:09:47 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't At 07:50 AM 5/29/98 -0400, you wrote: >At 12:48 PM 5/28/98 -0500, you wrote: >>>dates on the modules you've all been talking about voting for: B10, X11, X4, X5, X10, B4, B7. That game has been "out of print" for thirteen years. TSR screwed over the >>>OD&D game and the Known World setting with mediocre gaming material and abominable product design (e.g. the CDs). They cannot be >>The CD's were bad...I agree. And TSR learned that they were bad and have not published CD's since. >I would just like to mention that I like the CD products. They're well done, and can add a lot to a role-playing session. I especially like the Red Steel/Savage Baronies music CDs; excellent stuff! Me too... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 17:16:14 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Rising..petition Jessie, my friend and fellow Mystaran, and any other late-coming Mystarans who are not aware of the petition to revive Mystara: There is a letter that has been written that over 40 loyal Mystarans have signed on to. If anyone else has a wish to be put on the petition letter then the time to send me your name, email address, city and country is NOW. I am sending it off tomorrow!!!!!!!!!! I'll make a quick post of the letter itself tonight to the list... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 14:06:54 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Foresters/ 1st-2nd ed. comparison. >God, I despise 1st edition. I fortunately avoided that one, and stuck with D+D until 2nd ed was well established... 2nd ed is brilliant. oD+D is good. 1st ed is a powergamers dream... >Cheerz >ROB Well Rob, I have to disagree with you on this one. In first edition it was possible to have a 1st level character with a +6 to hit and a +9 damage making 3/2 atks. That character could have an AC.0. (This is presuming an 18.00 strength, 18 dexterity, double specialization, banded armor, and shield). There are exceptions (like OA- but that's balanced against itself not the rest of the games). On this end the person could only be human. In second edition you can still generate that 1st level character with an 18.00 strength, 19 dexterity (Same rolls, but this guy can be Elvish), you can pick up a kit that gives you free specialization (Swashbuckler with a rapier for example), put another slot in to double specialize, buy style specialization (single weapon for 2 slots). He has the tumbling skill for free. He wears splint mail armor Now this guy's numbers are as follows: +6 to hit, +9 damage, 3/2 atks. This is the same as the 1st edition fighter. Our Swashbuckler gets the following benefits over the fighter; All of the Elven abilities. A +1 initiative. AC.-2 and if he's caught without armor AC.3 (Instead of the above fighter at AC.7) Also, if he evades only and makes a roll of 100% or less (d%) then he is AC.-7 (or -1 if unarmored). His speed factor is also 1 lower. He also gains a +2 reaction modifier towards those of the opposite sex. He could choose to multi-class (Does Mage say anything ?) Disadvantages: "Life conspires to make things difficult for the Swashbuckler, and the DM should always throw just a little more good-natured bad luck at that Warrior kit than at any other." He also averages about 1/2 pt. damage less than the fighter does. Now, a quick note: I DID NOT take anything near the most powerful class/race/kit combination possible in the rules. This all came out of the Complete Fighter's Handbook, and the Player's Handbook. Combat and Tactics, Skills and Powers, Spells and Magic, Complete Gladiator's Handbook, and many other kits make this guy look like a joke. Just my notes. Jesse. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 17:34:36 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't << Right on! I am also a hard-core D&Der. Sure, I have modified the rules somewhat ( who hasn't?), but the basic system is the same. I think it would be ratehr tragic if all that work invested in those rules were simply thrown away. D&D works, so does AD&D, but D&D simply works. >> Well, in a sense, all that work has been thrown away. It's not produced anymore and AD&D supplements no longer make references to OD&D accessories. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 16:36:52 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Rising Jesse LaBranche wrote: >"I guess we just didn't realize that Mystara didn't have anyone listed. We were always so used to Bruce Heard championing it, but since he no longer works here, we should find someone else to take his place!" I guess we should have reminded them of that fact. >I think that someone should probably get a sort of a petition together with thoughts on why Mystara fell through the first time, how to make it marketable and attract the crowds that other worlds do, etc. Daly should be making a post in a few minutes - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 17:48:45 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't >Realms is the huge sucess because it is the single most worked on AD&D setting. When somone first plays AD&D, I'd bet that their first setting is FR. It's a lot more prevalent than any other setting, that's why it is a success, not because it is better, but because it is everywhere. And why is it everywhere???? Because there is such a demand for it. If FR wasn't making money it wouldn't be around. Also, it's not quantity that sells...it's quality. If all the products weren't good accessories, they wouldn't be bought. Also, i don't see why we are trying to take FR down. Is it to make Mystara look better? I hope not. We don't have to stoop to that level. Mystara is a great setting and we all know this, so let's try to concentrate on helping Mystara instead. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 15:03:37 PDT From: "Martin Edwards" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac Stuff I just wanted to say congratulations to the 1015 almanac team. It must be a huge undertaking to organize, write and edit something of this size and quality. It seems a tad unfair to pick out my favorite parts because there was so much that was good, and it’s largely just a reflection of my major interests (Glantri/Norwold). Nevertheless I particularly enjoyed the Glantri-Ethengar war: Mophail’s little plot had me hopping around gleefully (not a pretty site according to my wife). Also Norlan’s machinations around the Alphatian Sea, the Shadow Elves’ new NoS, and the interview with Terari and Harald all caught my imagination. Thanks and kudos to everyone involved. Martin Edwards ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 15:05:36 PDT From: "Martin Edwards" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about a great dungeon On Fri, 29 May 1998 DM wrote: >I have a problem: i'm gonna throw my PCs in a super-dungeon at the end of >which they'll end up finding the Book they're looking for to bring down... >I was thinkin about Temple of Elemental Evil.. but i'm not sure what i'll get, and also it's not easy to get it, >IIRC... Any suggestions? I don’t know anything about Temple of Elemental Evil, but another great oldie, Tomb of Horrors, sprang to mind. It’s not particularly huge (not sure if that’s what you meant by ‘super-dungeon’) but it has some wicked traps. It might be too risky for favorite PCs though, even super-powered ones. For sheer size, Dragon Mountain might be worth a look. Books 2&3 are an excellent, suprisingly complex dungeon setting. Hope this helps. Martin Edwards ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 18:06:35 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Television stuff for Mystara??? On Fri, 29 May 1998, Thomas J. Mahaney wrote: >I like the Fugitive and Mission Impossible ideas, but Baywatch? How exactly would that work? PCs are hired to patrol the beaches of one of the vacation isles of Irendi. Not very interesting, until the Kopru attack ;) Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 17:06:23 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Mischa E Gelman wrote: >Success in what terms? The sheer number of products put out? I really haven't encountered many FR fans in my life, but I've heard TONS of criticism about the setting. Whereas I rarely have bumped into a critic of Mystara (not that I found many Mystara fans before joining the list). FFFrom personal experience, I'd say there's a large number of negative views aabout FR out there, hardly making it a 'huge success', except from a marketing viewpoint. In what terms? How about visibility? Diversity? Detail? Sales? Having met all these critics did you not wonder who buys the line to make it a constant bestseller? Or are you one of those that believe TSR kills the good settings to make trash that no one buys? The Realms weren't only instrumental in making 2nd Edition even more successful than 1st but kept the company afloat as long as it did so they could divert resources to other settings like Mystara. To think that the number of products have no relationship to success is foolish. Many of the things people dislike about the Realms are the very things that made it a success. If you would like, I can point you where you can find critics of Mystara. No setting is completely loved or loathed by everyone. The Realms don't suffer from being too focused within their audience. They attempt to encompass everyone. Mystara has always been burdened by focus. First focused to 0D&D players then beginner players. Many of the criticism of the Realms is the amount of material available. Why this is I have no idea as I thought gaming was about picking and choosing what you wanted to use. I would be much more happier to have more to choose from. >Well, what I personally like about Mystara is it did not undergo any major changes. Most of the projects (GAZes+HWRs, Hollow World+DoTE boxed sets) just further detailed the world without making it constantly change. What turned me off to Dragonlance is that every few years, the entire world undergoes some cataclysmic event. Give me a mostly stable world anyday. Stability in the present day is different that stability in history. Mystara has both. WotI attempted to add some dynamics to the setting and like anything, has been rejected by some and embraced by others. That's why a setting should offer many things to many people to keep those who like what is happy and those that want more upheaval an avenue also. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 18:08:17 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alamanc in Mystara On Fri, 29 May 1998, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: >No problem here, since the Almanac deals with events of the previous years. The 1015 Almanac has events about 1015, but is supposed to be published in 1016, so the PC won't learn about future events. They will just get to know what happened in far away places the previous year. Ah ha. I had thought of it that way too, but isn't the old farmer's almanac sold a year in advance? Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 15:10:45 PDT From: "Martin Edwards" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Hollow World Shadowfall This might be of interest to someone running a HW campaign: A little while ago, I built a spreadsheet for calculating Shadowfall times and dates of the Floating Continents in the Hollow World, based on the data in PWA3. You type in the date and location of interest, and the spreadsheet calculates which planets block out the sun at which times. Err, that’s it. The spreadsheet file (30k) can be used on Excel v.7.0 and higher, and downloaded (as a file) from Håvard’s or Shawn’s web site (thanks guys): http://www.nvg.unit.no/~hoc/shadow.xls http://members.tripod.com/~mystara/hwshadow.xls (It’s actually been out there for a few months now but I’ve only now gotten around to announcing it here.) If anybody is using it or has any comments, I would be happy to receive mail. Martin Edwards ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 18:18:38 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 18:45:24 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #363 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 7189a01ef502bf9080b63533ce2d147d On Fri, 29 May 1998, Rob wrote: >around here too! But Ive converted him, and he thinks that Ixion is the coolest DEITY of them all...) I wonder.. Mystara, by it's very nature is contained in a different mythos than AD&D (No gods. The only gods are mortals from the prime, and other planes that havce acheived greatness). I wonder if the AD&D prime is actually in a different dimension than Mystara is. WotI's codex, and the Gold box dealt with different dimensions (House of D'Ambreville is a perfect example). And it is never stated with any clarity that Immortals come from *OTHER* dimensions. Just the planes in Mystara's Dimension. Of course, it never says that those other dimensions can't have *Gods* of their own. On this note, since AD&D gods can die by a mortal's hand, does that make them only "exalted" in the Mystaran Dimension? And who created the Gods? The Old ones? Maybe the Gods were a failed experiment for the Old Ones, much like the Angels were in the Christian Mythos. The Old ones, then set into motion the spheres, and the first Immortals (Thanatos, Terra, Ixion, etc.. The ones who never remember being mortal.) Allowing Mortals (the ultimate creation) to acheive transcendance. Hey, could be. Also links Mystaran cosmology to AD&D cosmology. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 15:06:13 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't >Also, i don't see why we are trying to take FR down. Is it to make Mystara look better? I hope not. We don't have to stoop to that level. Mystara is a great setting and we all know this, so let's try to concentrate >on helping Mystara instead. >-Inconu I don't see it as an attempt to take FR down, but this list is competing for the business as surely as if they were two different companies. When someone walks into a store they have enough to buy a book- do they get the FR or the Mystara ? You've got to have the edge to sell the book to that person. Alright, with economics out of the way, I think that the main reason that FR is being brought up so much is because it is the most comparable world to Mystara. Almost all of the others are "Theme" settings. DL is just set in its own little place with its own rules. RL is horror, horror, and more horror SJ is as above but change horror for space PS is not a "conventional" world setting DS is the same as RL but change horror for desert That pretty much leaves FR, GH, and Mystara. Note that Greyhawk is making a comeback, there's no reason that Mystara couldn't either, but for them to do this they're going to cut into the profit-margins of the others. Given the choices of FR, GH, and Mystara- I'd take Mystara every time. Jesse. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 18:24:40 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't On Fri, 29 May 1998, Galwylin wrote: >A lot has happened over the past 1000 years but its mostly been confined within the affected nations with nothing breaking the stability that has existed. The countless skirmishes between Thyatis and Alphatia is the worst example of this. Take the nations a 1000 years earlier and compare them to 1000 AC. What changed? Irendi popped up, The 5 shires was settled, Karameikos, Glantri (I beleive) came in 1000 years after Alphatia, Grakkhalia, Yavdlom, Hule. These are a few examples of nations that have popped into being in the past 1000 years. Remember, AC0-AC1000 was not a time of boring stagnation, but of growth and definition. I said borders didn't change, and that's not really true. Maybe for Thyatis, and Alphatia, the borders changed little, but every other country in the KW was created more or less in those 1000 years. Read the Gaz's again. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 18:29:04 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't On Fri, 29 May 1998, Geoff Gander wrote: >Gazetteers on Hule, the Heldann Freeholds, and Wendar were in the works. This was around 1991-1992 or so, in a questions/answers section of the Princess Ark series. I wonder if any of that work survived? I never bought Dragon Magazine much, I never had the money to, so I guess I'm behind on those late breaking developments :D Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 17:35:09 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Nothings Changed Rob wrote: >Just look what has happened in that 1000 years!!!! Ierendi was colonised, turned into a penal colony, became a pirate dictatoship, and ended up the Mystaran equivalent of Hawaii. Darokin went through barbarian to kingdom to republic to plutocracy. Glantri went from elven kingdom to Flaemish to Alphatian colony to amalgamation of principalities. Ylaraum went from wilderness to Thyatian colony to Alphatian colony to independent... the list goes on and on. I stand corrected that nothing changed in the Known World for a 1000 years. So border changes couldn't have taken place since little of the borders today were even formed then. I suppose I'm used to people being a part of a land longer than a few years and border constantly changing. >Now compare it to the real world. Borders dont often change, as a rule - countries are occupied, but only rarely do the borders undergo major change. The borders of England have been more or less unchanged since the Roman Empire. All the other European countries have all bee around a long time, more or less unchanged. Not dissimilar to the Mystaran version of Europe - the Known World. I don't think you can compare the two. In my lifetime alone, several countries have formed or vanished with borders shifting. Look back to 998 and compare the nations then in those same areas today. Radical change. (England's border really don't count, do they? Its part of an island). Using the comparison of the Known World to Europe, we see that real life is much more volatile. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 18:36:19 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Just what can a 12th level mage do to a Thyatian Legion? A lot! On Fri, 29 May 1998, Rob wrote: >Conservative estimate - 10 20th level (AD+D) mages, working together, at any one time? Goodbye, Thyatian legion. Nah. We're talking about the 1000 36th level wizards. But then again, you have to remember that most of the high level mages in Alphatia could give a dead pegataur about the military. Look at the Alphatian War machine. Pretty average numbers there. IMC I would NEVER allow a single 36th level mage to decimate an army. Its not even CLOSE to realistic. >ROB (give me a 20th level mage, and I will move the world...) In which case, why haven't the thousand wizards of Alphatia dominated Mystara? And also on that note, why are the pithy fighters of Heldann doing so well, if mages are so godlike? Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 18:41:00 -0400 From: Daly Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Petition letter... For considerations of privacy I have removed all emails from the signature portion (except for my own). We have 40 signatures so far, including Bruce Heard himself! If you feel you can sign on to this effort, then please send me your name, email, city, and country. If you feel any of the above info is too much to send, then please toss me what you can. For those who have sent me their name and addresses already, please verify that I have you by sending once more. I am going to give a final proofread and then send the letter off tomorrow. Please reread the letter as I have added a small bit... And for Rad's sake! If you have not weighed in with your opinion on http://CWSpot.com/Mystara/SaveMystara/ then do so now! It is a site dedicated to giving us a voice regarding the revival of Mystara. How do you feel it should be done? Why do you think it should be done? Let us know! I encourage you all to continue frequenting the MMB as well. http://tsronline.wizards.com:80/mb/system/login.html?target=_top&method=GET - -------------------------------------------------------- Dear sirs, As the faithful consumers of the Mystaran product line, we would like to see the setting return either as a full line or as an independent accessory. We are aware that Wizards of the Coast does not currently believe they can successfully present any material based in Mystara. However it is our firm belief that Mystara's earlier sales are more reflective of the then current attempt to direct the setting toward beginning players. The experienced players had no reason to by the products and so the setting faltered. A small but strong "test product" would be supported by all those signed here. We fervently hope you consider this. In the meantime, please feel free to visit the following site and peruse the opinions of Mystarans on how and why the product line should be revived. http://CWSpot.com/Mystara/SaveMystara/ "Jeff Daly" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 18:42:26 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't On Fri, 29 May 1998 Inconu@aol.com wrote: >wouldn't be bought. Also, i don't see why we are trying to take FR down. Is it I only used FR as a sucessful campaign, that IMHO is not as good as Mystara. I wasn't knocking it, Its not a bad place, I just don't like it as much, yet, it has thrived for years, while Mystara is dead. It seems that others have taken my comparisons to be personal assaults on FR, which they are not. Calm down people. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 18:40:23 -0400 From: Derek Harmon Subject: [MYSTARA] - Looking Out My Window... I had a strange revelation last night while I was working on a treasure map for my PBeM campaign... if I lived on Specularum's Hill, looking out my palacial north-facing window over the city walls, and given that Specularum's immediate vicinity is mostly level farmland... Would I see the Black Peak Mountains, 80 miles north? I know what you're saying.. "JUST MOVE TO VERGE, STONELIGHT!" But I want to know if I can summer in Specularum and see my mountains, too! I figure they're decent sized mountains, about 4,500 feet (PWA3). Directly north of Specularum, that rise is quite sharp (though I doubt its a dead drop-off cliff, just the 8 mi. per hex map didn't resolve hills transitioning up to it). So let's see, 80 mi x 5,260 ft/mi = 420,800 ft.. And the angle that the edge of the mountains substends on my horizon would be the arctangent of 4,500 / 420,800 (0.0107) which is 0.61 degrees (or 2.43 arcminutes). Now, to give you a guide to how large that would loom on the horizon, if you make a fist (doesn't matter if you have a big fist or a small fist) and extend your arm straight ahead with one edge of your fist lined up with the horizon (doesn't matter if you have a long arm or a short arm; this is why it didn't matter what size fist you had.. 3;D> ) then from the edge of your fist lined up on the horizon to the edge of your fist above the hori- zon at an arm's length from your eyes -- is 10 arcminutes. So, from Specularum, the basaltic Black Peak Mountains would look like one-fourth of your fist in the above visualization (perhaps the distance between two knuckles). Which isn't as grandiose and majestic as I at first imagined (Ode to the Joys of the Arctangent.. 3:P> ).. but it gives you something to think about. But wait, Mystara is curved. So the land 80 miles away falls below the horizon. Let's see, 6,190 mi (diameter of Mystara) x 5,280 ft/mi = 32,683,200 x 2 pi = 65,366,400 pi ft (circumference of Mystara) / 4 = 16,341,600 pi ft (circumference of one fourth of Mystara). Now, 420,800 ft / 16,341,600 pi ft = 0.0082 * 90 deg = 0.738 degrees of latitude between Specularum and the Mountains. I've approximated Mystara as a circle here, its actually an oblate spheroid but.. How much does the height fall after 0.738 degrees? Well, its moot. It's more than something subtending 0.61 degrees is tall. 3:(> OK.. OK.. so you CAN'T see the Black Peak Mountains from Specularum. But I still wonder what the horizons look like from other vantage points in Mystara. If I were standing looking south from the Black Peak Mountains, how far could I see to the Sea of Dread? If I were standing outside the beautiful oasis of Ylaruam City, could I see Point Denwarf to the northwest? If I were looking out from Upper Dengar, would the Alasiyan Desert look like a sand trap between two mountain ranges? I don't know, just some stuff I was thinking about... 3:)> -- Stonelight P.S. Okay, I didn't take smog and particulate matter into account.. after the curvature of the horizon engulfed the mountain, it didn't seem too pertinent anymore. Besides, Mystara is a better place without auto- mobiles and allergies. 3;D> *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 17:44:25 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Jesse LaBranche wrote: >That pretty much leaves FR, GH, and Mystara. Note that Greyhawk is making a comeback, there's no reason that Mystara couldn't either, but for them to do this they're going to cut into the profit-margins of the others. Given the choices of FR, GH, and Mystara- I'd take Mystara every time. I hope that's not the case. I'd hope that more come into gaming and see a wider array of choices. Their initiation purchase of Mystara will cut into FR and GH new gamers profits but if we're left to attempt to win people from those settings, it may be an uphill struggle. Don't forget that Birthright is being aimed at that same market when it reappears next year. And while Dragonlance may seem to be in its own place, its wanting those same purchasers also. Its close enough to standard fantasy to entice those looking at it and offers a rules system that supposily makes it easier for a first time gamer to enter role-playing (and it is trying to get those novel readers into gaming). - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #363 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 21:03:26 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #364 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: b52a3a4adc70170d2f5cdb9b75b7eaa9 mystara-digest Friday, May 29 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 364 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't [MYSTARA] - 1st-2nd ed. comparison. [MYSTARA] - Another overload? Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't [MYSTARA] - identifying speakers [none] [none] [none] Re: [MYSTARA] - Just what can a 12th level mage do to a Thyatian Legion? A lot! Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Re: [MYSTARA] - Another overload? [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Almanac Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Re: [MYSTARA] - identifying speakers ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 18:53:46 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't At 03:06 PM 5/29/98 -0700, you wrote: >>Also, i don't see why we are trying to take FR down. Is it to make Mystara look better? I hope not. We don't have to stoop to that level. Mystara is a great setting and we all know this, so let's try to cconcentrate >>on helping Mystara instead. >>-Inconu >I don't see it as an attempt to take FR down, but this list is competing for the business as surely as if they were two different companies. *shakes head violently* If we go at this with a "Mystara is competing with FR" mentality then we lose. Plain and simple. Greyhawk was brought back because it was successfully demonstrated to be different from the Realms. No, Inconu is right, there is nothing to be gained from criticizing other settings. Instead we lets focus on the positive aspects of Mystara and what makes her unique. Why would a gamer, who has all the Realms stuff, want Mystara? Answer this question and you have just sold the product line to TSR. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 00:02:30 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: [MYSTARA] - 1st-2nd ed. comparison. >Well Rob, I have to disagree with you on this one. In first edition it was possible to have a 1st level character with a +6 to hit and a +9 damage making 3/2 atks. That character could have an AC.0. (This is presuming an 18.00 strength, 18 dexterity, double specialization, banded armor, and shield). There are exceptions (like OA- but that's balanced against itself not the rest of the games). On this end the person could only be human. IIn second edition you can still generate that 1st level character with an 18.00 strength, 19 dexterity (Same rolls, but this guy can be Elvish), you can pick up a kit that gives you free specialization (Swashbuckler with a rapier for example), put another slot in to double specialize, buy style specialization (single weapon for 2 slots). He has the tumbling skill for free. He wears splint mail armor Well, only if you roll 100 on a d100. Fat chance. And I use the old D+D method of rolling characters. 3d6 ONCE. Thats half the problem right there... I like the "this is presuming" part... Its presuming quite a bit, IMHO! >Our Swashbuckler gets the following benefits over the fighter; All of the Elven abilities. A +1 initiative. +1 initiative? News to me. And I run the Savage Coast! If your talking weapon speed - anyone could use a rapier. Or a shortword, probably the best all around weapon in AD+D. >AC.-2 and if he's caught without armor AC.3 (Instead of the above fighter at >AC.7) Also, if he evades only and makes a roll of 100% or less (d%) then he is AC.-7 (or -1 if unarmored). Uh? Splint mail - AC 4... dex 18 ac 0. Swashbucklers only get the +2 AC bonus when wearing armour no heavier than studded leather - thats to encourage them to wear little armour. As for tumbling - its well used IMC, and its not very good in the heat of combat. Partly because of the Dex check involved, and the fact that the highest Dex person in my party has Dex 15, and the lowest has Dex 4. And a swashbuckler wearing splint mail??? Splint mail looks like a barrel! Anyone who does that should be smartly rapped on the head and be told not to powergame... Its not really swashbuckling, is it? A kit isnt supposed to be a set of statistics to make your character harder. IMO you choose the personality and type of character first, and then give the appropriate kit. A kit (other than Local Hero or Adventurer or something generic like that) does specialise your character somewhat, and I consider a bit of limitation on what that character can get up to to be completely justified. As an example - a Shadow Elf fighter/mage/thief Infiltrator (using high elf stats, before i got hold of SE ones) wanted to get a small barony in Glantri going. He went through hell and high water - and in the end got something half way approaching what he wanted (a small assassins guild). Meanwhile, the human Heldannic Knight Noble is being made a Count in the Heldannic Territories, with a large County under his control... You want to be an Infiltrator to infiltrate, fine. You want to be an Infiltrator just to get gross bonuses and never infiltrate anything to become a noble instead - not fine. Want to be an all arounder? Play a Local Hero, or an Adventurer! >His speed factor is also 1 lower. >He also gains a +2 reaction modifier towards those of the opposite sex. Oh No! +2 to reaction rolls!!!! Powergamer! lol >He could choose to multi-class (Does Mage say anything ?) Multiclass isnt so much of a problem if you roll the stats on 3d6 once. Youo will get one good score - a bit of modification with the D+D character generation system out of the old Basic set will let u modify that to get one good score. A multiclass would most likely get stats of around 12 across the board (if hes lucky). And he would be somewhat naff compared to the more specialised singleclass with a prime requisite over 16. If you let PCs have stats of 18 across the board you are truly begging for it. Besides, I stitch multiclassed characters in other ways. Never said 2nd ed was perfect! But a few house rules solves the minor problems it has... >Disadvantages: "Life conspires to make things difficult for the Swashbuckler, and the DM should always throw just a little more good-natured >bad luck at that Warrior kit than at any other." He also averages about 1/2 pt. damage less than the fighter does. Mock that disadvantage not... heh heh heh... I remember Albion StJohn Smythe sneaking aboard the Vilaverdan frigate - straight into the captains cabin while the captain was entertaining the barons cousin... Or for that matter Smythe getting his rakasta tail caught under a fallen packing crate while sneaking through the cargo hold of a Heldannic Warbird, so he was trapped there. (Fortunately he had the Separation legacy). (Smythe was a fighter. Not a sneaker...) >Now, a quick note: I DID NOT take anything near the most powerful class/race/kit combination possible in the rules. This all came out of the Complete Fighter's Handbook, and the Player's Handbook. Combat and Tactics, Skills and Powers, Spells and Magic, Complete Gladiator's Handbook, and many other kits make this guy look like a joke. >Just my notes. >Jesse. A Swashbuckler??? Hmm. Have a brief glance at the Red Steel stuff and i think (bar possibly Inheritor) the Swashbuckler is the most powerful kit - except possibly the Myrmidon or Militant Wizard. And as for Skills and Powers...... Nooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!! I hold the dreaded black books in as high esteem as DM holds G:KoM. Races, classes and kits arent so much the problem. Ability scores can be tho - especially Strength. I make everyone roll them on 3d6 once - and that nails all munchkin problems right down. And gets the stats into perspective. I had a recent debate as to whether my wild mage (intelligence 18) could work out how to reload a repeating hand crossbow from looted derro. A half Int check was failed. So I couldnt. At this point I just had to point out that this character was as smart as Albert Einstein, and loading a repeat crossbow is something that myself in real life most likely wouldnt have a problem with. Ah, said the DM. But Einstein would have Wisdom 18 as well... And I think my reply to that is just too predictable to write down... And if this is a 1st vs 2nd debate, I have two words... Unearthed Arcana. I foolishly allowed a 1st ed barbarian to play in my 2nd ed campaign. Bad, bad move. Sadly, the PCs were up against a crimson dragon, and the Reflect legacy proved very unfortunate for said barbarian and his sword of dragonslaying (yes, I am evil, but he was begging for it!!! anyone who totes over 10 magic items IMC deserves everything he gets...) I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one! Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 19:00:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Savoie Subject: [MYSTARA] - Another overload? Six MYSTARA-L digests in only twelve hours? What is going on? I haven't checked the content yet but for PETE'S SAKE, people, there had better not be the dreaded over-quoting going on. Don't leave the whole quoted messages in your fancy, detached-from-reality Windows mail editors. Just because it doesn't occupy space in your TeraByte hard-disks doesn't mean it doesn't clutter up people's E-mail chutes. Use some discretion in what you say. - ---Pierre Savoie (ab966@torfree.net) "It is perilous to waste my time." --the Old Man of the Mountain, BRIDGE OF BIRDS by Barry Hughart. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 00:04:36 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't >>Realms is the huge sucess because it is the single most worked on AD&D setting. When somone first plays AD&D, I'd bet that their first setting is >>FR. It's a lot more prevalent than any other setting, that's why it is a success, not because it is better, but because it is everywhere. I think Drizzt Do'Urden has a lot to do with that. >And why is it everywhere???? Because there is such a demand for it. If FR wasn't making money it wouldn't be around. Also, it's not quantity that sells...it's quality. If all the products weren't good accessories, they wouldn't be bought. Also, i don't see why we are trying to take FR down. Is it >to make Mystara look better? I hope not. We don't have to stoop to that level. >Mystara is a great setting and we all know this, so let's try to concentrate >on helping Mystara instead. Turn Haldemar of Haaken into a much loved hero like Drizzt? Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 19:10:50 -0400 From: Daly Subject: [MYSTARA] - identifying speakers At 10:55 PM 5/28/98 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 98-05-27 09:11:32 EDT, you write: >>At 02:08 AM 5/27/98 EDT, you wrote: >See? You didn't identify me, and I didn't identify you. Please set up your mailer to name the person you are replying to -- it is very annoying to see "You wrote" in a submission to the mailing list -- for most readers, you are telling an outright lie when you say that. For those of us who may not understand what the heck you are talking about, please explain how to "set up your mailer to name the person" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 19:11:46 -0400 From: Daly Subject: [none] At 12:20 AM 5/29/98 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 98-05-28 22:46:41 EDT, galwylin@airnet.net writes: >>Mystara may be hard to >>give an overall look at but not impossible. >It might have worked out better if they had gotten around to producing that boxed set for Darokin -- Darokin, after all, is a centrally located nation that is on moderately good terms with all of its neighbors except the Broken Lands and Hule (which wasn't their neighber at all until they took over Sind). You know, I think you have something here!! I could just imagine the Darokin boxed set with its overview of the major nations via the diplomats and merchants. And the unique quality of Darokin would have to be a turn on! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 19:12:28 -0400 From: Daly Subject: [none] At 02:13 AM 5/29/98 -0400, you wrote: >Galwylin pontificated: >>I believe a Heldennic Gazetteer was mentioned but never produced. >I vaguely remember seeing a Heldennic Gazetteer mentioned in an ad, which list all the gazetteers, with Heldann listed as coming soon. I think a Hule/Sind one was also in the plan before the line got scrapped. Heldann, Wendar, and Hule were all going to be done (in that order). But you know what? I think D&D was scrapped around that time and to bring in those new players they decided to go with new AD&D boxed sets that would take the place of the gazetteers. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 19:13:41 -0400 From: Daly Subject: [none] ><> >Do you really think if you had informed the others TSR was going closing the line and rallied all your friends to write letters of complaint to TSR they would have refrained from dropping Mystara? Not the dropping part. I should have voiced my opinion long before on how things should be. And the point is not whether they would have listened to me or not. The point is getting my opinion out there so I can legitimately gripe when the don't listen. ;) ><> >I didn't misunderstand your metaphor, Jeff, quite the contrary. I am telling you that we did and are doing the best we can to support Mystara in the only ways we know. You see, even if all the 200 of us wrote to TSR to reclaim back Mystara, we still wouldn't be a "profitable investment", because 200 fans aren't worth the trouble of publishing new supplements and paying new contributors. As has been said before, 200 fans willing to voice themselves represent a much larger group that is not willing to speak. Not to mention the possible interest for those who know nothing of Mystara... I know we must force TSR to acknowledge our eefforts and listen to us, but what i'm trying to say is that we're doing the best we can and nothing's happening. We must not blame ourselves if Mystara is still in coma.. I am not out for blaming us. But on the other hand...this may sound shocking...I don't WANT TSR to take notice of us yet! We are not quite there yet. It is the buildup that counts. Trust me. The Ethengarians are biting at the bit to charge, but the Glantrians HAVE to be in position first, or all is lost... ><> >Yeah, i imagine it.. and for now it is the only thing i can do besides writing for Mystara.. don't ask me more, please ;) Oh trust me, I will be asking lots more of you sometime soon..heheh... ><> ><> >Well, that's not exactly the same point. C64 died because there was better stuff on the market (PC8086, then 8286, etc.) It was the natural evolution that caused the C64 downfall.. But look at what happened in RPG market: no other super-ultra-mega-RPG came out to replace D&D. The different gaming systems just co-existed. The TCG simply saturated the market, but they were no "improvement" in RPG sector: they didn't even belong to RPG, yet they choked the gaming market. And TSR didn't foresee this.. I hate to bring it up to this list, but the C64 was superior to all other machines when it came out. IBM focused on business and ignored the home user. The Amiga2000 (a Commodore machine) was also superior to everything out at the time. Its graphics are still superior to the precious super vga... But both machines are long since dead and IBM rules. Commodore...and this is VERY relevant my friends...decided to assume its huge C64 customer base would stay loyal. They did not seek to keep these customers but worked on attracting others. They lost both. Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 21:03:26 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #364 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: b52a3a4adc70170d2f5cdb9b75b7eaa9 >>From the interviews and the tales i read, it was mainly the fault of the uunsold novels (some of them crappy products that had virtually no ties with the campaign world where they should belong -true even with Mystara, see Penhaligon Trilogy) if TSR got more problems than it deserved. I would have liked to see a trilogy that, instead of dealing with "known" game material, detailed a part of the world that would have been set aside for such novels. Similar to the gold box computer games and the Moonsea region in FR... ><> >So, i'm interested now: what campaigns do you think they should have dropped earlier? I'd certainly say Buck Rogers, Gammaworld and Marvel Superheroes (which has just been reopened but as a board/cardgame, if i've understood well -and don't tell me they did it because of fans asking it! ;)). Then what? I don't know if this will upset you or not, but I wish they pulled Mystara alot sooner. Instead of the clumsy sour note Mystara went out on, we could have gone out with the Hollow World, PA articles, and the Gazetteers (not to mention the PWAs). I think our attempts to revive Mystara at this time would be consequently alot easier. I think we would be ready for action alot sooner too... ><< What I have seen so far from WotC is good marketing.>> >Xena and Hercules TCG is good marketing? And Marvel Superheroes too?.. i am perplexed.. Don't get me wrong: i think they're doing fine with the "big campaigns", notably Ravenloft and Planescape (don't know about Birthrigth and FR, but oh well, if they don't sell FR then it's time to close business and go home!), but they are also making some fausses pas, so to speak.. I just think as far as customer rapport, they are superior to TSR of the later years. I remember some of the early ads for D&D and how they inspired me to go out and buy the game. I have seen commercials for the WotC card lines that make those games look pretty nifty. I think they are doing a better job. I think TSR got very afraid (and who can blame them) of bad publicity. ><< We do have power over the situation. And you and I are both using those powers to effect a change. When you and I have adventures and article published, they will be so interesting that people will flock to our banner and demand a revival of the Mystara setting.>> >I envy your great hope in the goodness of men. However, as the saying goes: To hope doesn't cost anything, and hope is the last thing to die, so let's keep faith that our words will strike some of the big bosses at WotC and they bring Mystara back to us. Its not so much hope in the goodness of men, as faith that we have an excellent product and folks like you and me who are willing to do some leg work. ><> >Yeah, but this doesn't change the current situation: no current TSR employee has ever come neither to the MML, and as far as i know (i admit i am not an habitué of the MMB), nor to the MMB. Which means they are still ignoring us. But in the grand scheme (or Grand Scheme) of things we have only started. >Speaking of which, why do you think they decided to revive Greyhawk? Do you think it was because enough fans wrote them and begged them to do it? I don't see so many Greyhawk fans over the net, however.. so what's the truth? I think it was the strong fan base. I don't even think they match our numbers (I could be wrong) but they were a loud and vocal minority. ><> >It may be only a question of time before they reopen Mystara, i hope so, but then again the problem is, as you pointed out, how will this new Mystara look like? Frankly i didn't like the AD&D version, so i am not so sure i would buy new products if they looked that way.. And that is the point. I aim to be in a position to influence these things.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 00:18:25 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Just what can a 12th level mage do to a Thyatian Legion? A lot! >>Conservative estimate - 10 20th level (AD+D) mages, working together, at any >>one time? Goodbye, Thyatian legion. >Nah. We're talking about the 1000 36th level wizards. >But then again, you have to remember that most of the high level mages in Alphatia could give a dead pegataur about the military. Look at the Alphatian War machine. Pretty average numbers there. Yeah I know. Hence the conservative 10 out of 1000. Its only 1%! >IMC I would NEVER allow a single 36th level mage to decimate an army. Its not even CLOSE to realistic. Neither would I. But they can! So I dont have any 36th level mages IMC... At least, not 1000 of them. >>ROB (give me a 20th level mage, and I will move the world...) >In which case, why haven't the thousand wizards of Alphatia dominated Mystara? I dont know! They should have done! You tell me! Are they holding back or something? It puzzled me in WotI why the Alphatians werent in Thyatis in a week... After all - they could have, going by the spells they can cast. >And also on that note, why are the pithy fighters of Heldann doing so well, if mages are so godlike? Plot twist. Thats what I dont like. If you ran that as an adventure, the mages would win every time. Writing it as part of a timeline tho is different. The full power of the mage (some would say cheesiness...) isnt being fully used. Hey, Im with you here. I DONT like it! Its just that this is what high level mages ARE capable of. So I dont have them! If anyone wants to tell me any defences an army out of the PWA might have against high level magics, believe me, I am most eager to find out. I certainly havnt been able to think of any... Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 16:25:10 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't >Jesse LaBranche wrote: >>That pretty much leaves FR, GH, and Mystara. Note that Greyhawk is making a comeback, there's no reason that Mystara couldn't either, but for >>them to do this they're going to cut into the profit-margins of the others. >>Given the choices of FR, GH, and Mystara- I'd take Mystara every time. II hope that's not the case. I'd hope that more come into gaming and see a wider array of choices. Their initiation purchase of Mystara will cut into FR and GH new gamers profits but if we're left to attempt to win people from those settings, it may be an uphill struggle. Don't forget that Birthright is being aimed at that same market when it reappears next year. And while Dragonlance may seem to be in its own place, its wanting those same purchasers also. Its close enough to standard fantasy to entice those looking at it and offers a rules system that supposily makes it easier for a first time gamer to enter role-playing (and it is trying to get those novel readers into gaming). This has been a Galwylin© Production I knew this was going to be misinterpreted. What I was saying is that "we need to have all our ducks in a row" if we're going to "compete". There's no reason for WotC/TSR to give it to us if it is not as good as the other worlds. We've got to be able to present the angles that we see which makes it unique. DL is actually working on the novel readers which is a good thing, they're bringing in a wider audience through them. Jesse. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 16:33:47 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Jesse: >>I don't see it as an attempt to take FR down, but this list is competing for >>the business as surely as if they were two different companies. Daly: >*shakes head violently* >If we go at this with a "Mystara is competing with FR" mentality then we lose. Plain and simple. >Greyhawk was brought back because it was successfully demonstrated to be different from the Realms. No, Inconu is right, there is nothing to be gained from criticizing other settings. >Instead we lets focus on the positive aspects of Mystara and what makes her unique. I did already respond back to the above in agreement. I see that I was misinterpreted by more than one lister- Oops ! I guess that means I made the mistake. I agree with this whole-heartedly. >Why would a gamer, who has all the Realms stuff, want Mystara? Answer >this question and you have just sold the product line to TSR. This is a question that should probably be posed to the board in a different thread- or as an "important moderator" post so that everyone on the list reads it ? Jesse. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 02:35:58 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Another overload? On Fri, 29 May 1998, Pierre Savoie complained: >Six MYSTARA-L digests in only twelve hours? Hey Pierre! You should get yourself a new internet deliverer. (or a new computer) Shouldn't you be happy about this? But you have a point though; Remember your Netiquette guys :) Håvard PS: This was intended as a friendly message. No flames, please. Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 20:38:31 -0400 From: Daly Subject: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? At 04:33 PM 5/29/98 -0700, you wrote: >>Why would a gamer, who has all the Realms stuff, want Mystara? Answer >this qquestion and you have just sold the product line to TSR. >This is a question that should probably be posed to the board in a different thread- or as an "important moderator" post so that everyone on the list reads it ? Good point! Consider it done! And thanks for your vote of confidence on the petition letter! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 02:38:55 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Almanac On Fri, 29 May 1998, Galwylin wrote: >Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: >>Ofcourse! That conflict could get interesting. Personally I would like to see the Ethengarians moved elsewhere. I like them, but I dont like them in the middle of the civilized world, if you take my meaning. It would be great to have them go west or something and regain their position there... All IMO ofcourse. >I'm working on doing just that. Ethengar becomes a disputed land between the Heldennics, the united Northern Reaches and the reconquered Alfheim allied with Wendar. The clans get caught in the middle and are crushed in the power struggle that forces them to invade parts of Glantri in their migration. All part of the winds of war that have replaced the power vacuum of Thyatis and Alphatia. Hey Galwylin (look! I spelled it right.) This sounds pretty good. Remember the NR may have some trouble with the trolls though. Though that may be dealt with from what I've read in the Almanac.. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 20:53:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't At 03:13 PM 5/29/98 -0500, you wrote: >Well, you said so yourself in your reply. The borders haven't changed. A lot has happened over the past 1000 years but its mostly been confined within the affected nations with nothing breaking the stability that has existed. The countless skirmishes between Thyatis and Alphatia is the worst example of this. Take the nations a 1000 years earlier and compare them to 1000 AC. What changed? Okay, here's a few things that changed. * Thyatis became an independent empire from Alphatia. * Thyatis conquered several parts of the Isle of Dawn. * Vestland gained its independence from Ostland. * Thyatis conquered the Traladaran lands. * Karameikos became independent from Thyatis. * Thyatis conquered a piece of Ylaruam. * Glantri developed into a nation carved out from the wilderness no one really wanted. * Darokin became a nation, ruled by several different types of governments. * Alphatia colonized Norwold and placed it under the rule of Ericall. * Ierendi became a nation, breaking free from Thyatis. * Minrothad became a nation and developed its trading guilds. * Thyatis began to conquer the Hinterlands of the Jungle Coast. Ethengar, Rockhome, Alfheim, and the Shires didn't change; they have been stable for a long time. The demihumans' stability can be attributed to their long life spans, while the Ethengarians don't see any reason to change. There have been minor border changes from time to time, as well. I'd say that's fairly fluid. Not as much as the real world, true, but it's not as static as some people seem to think. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 18:05:18 -0700 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - identifying speakers At 07:10 PM 5/29/98 -0400, Daly wrote: >For those of us who may not understand what the heck you are talking about, please explain how to "set up your mailer to name the person" Some mailer programs can be 'set up' (in the options/properties/whatever) section so that instead of saying 'you wrote' in the attribute line of a quote, they will include the FULL NAME of the person that is being quoted - -- 'so-and-so wrote'. Other mailer programs can NOT be set this way. If you can set up your options/properties/whatever of your mailer to define how the attribute line is formated, it is wise to set it up to always use the FULL NAME. If you can't set it up this way, there is still a simple solution: both kinds of mailer programs, regardless of the set up for the attribute line, will generally use a FULL NAME if the 'reply to all' option is used versus the regular 'reply' option. They operate under the assumption that if you are replying to 'all' there is probably more than one person involved in the conversation and so it is important to indicate WHICH participant is being quoted. With that said, the simple solution si that whenever you reply to a MAILING LIST always say 'Reply To All', even though you only want to reply to the list. This should automatically set the attribute line to say 'so-and-so wrote' instead of 'you wrote'. Then CHECK the 'To:' and the 'Cc:' fields to see what email addresses are shown. Sometimes you will get the same email address shown in both places, so delete the extra one in the 'Cc:' field (this happens for me with Mystara-L). Sometimes you will get the address for the Mailing List and the address of the original poster, so delete the original poster's address (otherwise they will get two copies of the message). Another possible solution is to copy the name of the original poster from the text and/or header lines of the original message BEFORE selecting the 'reply' option, and then pasting their name over the 'you' in your reply. In any case, it is good Mailing List Ettiquet to always indentify the speaker you are quoting by name. And if you have 'embeded quotes' (i.e., the message you are quoting quoted someone else) you should be sure to leave the indentification for the original poster AS WELL. To Sum up: WAYS TO IDENTIFY THE SPEAKER IN THE ATTRIBUTE LINE: 1. Set up your mailer to format the 'attribute' line with a FULL NAME always. 2. Use the 'Reply to All' option instead of the regular 'Reply' option. Don't forget to check the 'To:' and 'Cc:' fields and use only one copy of the e-dress that you want to send the message to. 3. Copy 'n Paste the user's name from the body/headers of the original message over the 'you' of the reply's attribute line. :-) Jenni - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- Unofficial MML Mom ;-) - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield http://www.jamm.com/jenni/home.html - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- strawberry@jamm.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #364 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 01:40:23 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #365 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: f4cdc68dd151a986999c303be04f9286 mystara-digest Saturday, May 30 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 365 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Rising..petition Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please DO-originally something else Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Rising..petition [MYSTARA] - Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format Re: [MYSTARA] - identifying speakers Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Rising..petition [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Nothing's changed [and some thoughts on Thyatis] Re: [MYSTARA] - Just what can a 12th level mage do to a Thyatian Legion? A lot! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 21:26:57 -0400 From: Derek Harmon Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't SteelAngel wrote: >On Thu, 28 May 1998, Derek Harmon wrote: TTThe original GAZ format would be good; though I'd rather see it AD&D. : >BUT include a handy table at the end of every set that includes rules to transform it to D&D rules. There is far too much invested in the D&D rules system to completely drop it like a stone, and there are a lot of hard core D&D'ers out there who refuse to play AD&D. I liked the pun.. "drop it like a stone.." 3;)> Anyway, isn't that what TSR did, drop D&D like a stone? I won't even begin to estimate the possible market of hard-core D&Ders who refused to convert to AD&D. But it's one (tough) proposition to bring back Mystara, bringing it back and tying it to a defunct rules system is even harder to conceive of. Also, converting D&D to AD&D is easier than the reverse. If I describe an AD&D character with AD&D magic items and AD&D spells, providing D&D equivalents for all of these would be prohibitively expensive. But with D&D's limited selection of spells for example, a direct AD&D equivalent is much easier to find. TSR already did this the other way, to encourage conversion to AD&D (which had the return on investment of encouraging D&Ders to buy AD&D, and AD&Ders to buy this D&D product). I don't think that would be profitable the other way around. I would say, if you're trying to save the Titanic (what with all these movie metaphors going on), don't expect to domesticate Godzilla at the same time.. ? -- Stonelight *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 20:41:23 -0500 From: "Kevin Melby" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Rising..petition Put me on the list. My email adress is kmelby@skypoint.com My city, state and country are St. Paul, Minnesota, USA. - -----Original Message----- From: Daly To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM Date: Friday, May 29, 1998 4:18 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Rising..petition >Jessie, my friend and fellow Mystaran, and any other late-coming Mystarans who are not aware of the petition to revive Mystara: >There is a letter that has been written that over 40 loyal Mystarans have signed on to. If anyone else has a wish to be put on the petition letter then the time to send me your name, email address, city and country is NOW. II am sending it off tomorrow!!!!!!!!!! >I'll make a quick post of the letter itself tonight to the list... >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 21:42:15 -0400 From: Derek Harmon Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Galwylin wrote: >its a success while the other is so good that its a failure unless you're saying gamers are dumb. A friend told me that Mystara is great. Its a world where a mage is a game and elf is a elf and they both have Glantri, where everyone plays Mage: The Ascension, a popular game in all the salons and parlors! 3;D> >their own country. I think many see that as a problem not greatness. Some may see that as a little strange, along with the patchwork quilt that is southeastern Brun. I think it was mainly that it was di- rected to D&D players tho, a dwindling market. TSR tried to feed a market that was dying, while simultaneously building and promoting its AD&D market. In a way, TSR spent money against itself. 3;)> >Though he went a little over the top, he did express a veiw that people have of Mystara and which you're saying they should keep. If the setting is ever changing then why has it been essentially stable for the past 1000 years? Two words, "bipolar superpowers," Thyatis and Alphatia.. forces of order and stability. But the last 1,000 years haven't been totally un- eventful.. although I agree there could be more history to be uncovered. The previous 1,000 or so volumes of Joshuan's Almanac would fix that.. but nobody came up with the idea soon enough, so we live with a dearth of historical detail over the past millenium (and before! If you think the last one thousand years were dull, how was 2100 BC to 1100 BC? 3;D> ) -- Stonelight *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 21:57:50 -0400 From: Derek Harmon Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please DO-originally something else Thomas J. Mahaney wrote: >I have to say that I disagree. I thought that all the CDs were very clunky. I didn't mind that they were included (I simply didn't use them). However, they resulted in inflating the cost of the AD&D boxed sets and modules. It did, but I didn't buy the boxed sets when they came out because I already had GAZ1 and GAZ3. Now that they were overproduced, the CD sets range in cost from $3 to $7 around here. I mean, they're stacked up on the shelves. There's an oversupply, so the price has since deflated consider- ably. >>Mystara will continue to slowly die out. New players play AD&D and that's the bottom line. No new market for Mystara if they stay OD&D. There is no demmand : >Again, I disagree. I think it really depends the particular audience WotC would be shooting for. If they were looking to sell products to players already familiar with OD&D and Mystara, then perhaps products could be Well the die-hard OD&Ders who haven't converted to AD&D, intersected with the true-blue Mystara devotees.. is a very small market however you cut it. You're talking about selling to people who already demonstrated with their wallets that there aren't many of them who bought the D&D Rules Cyclo- pedia. >targeted towards those players in some way, perhaps by including dual (AD&D and OD&D) statistics for characters/monsters. However, if they simply To convert AD&D characters to D&D characters would either lose info in the conversion, or require too much additional conversion material (ala spells, magic items, equipment, etc that doesn't exist in D&D). To only write it for D&D and include conversion to AD&D would limit options for the writers, unless new rules (akin to existing AD&D rules) were added that AD&D players already have and paid for in other places. It's a no-win situation. >"start over" with a pure AD&D Mystara group of products, who would buy them? New players already have their choice of a number of other AD&D campaign worlds. Yes, and now Mystara would be among those choices. If a D&D Mystara came out, "who would buy them?" We all speculate how many pure-D&D Mystarans are out there, but the truth is TSR already knows there's effectively 'too few' out there. And while Mystara MIGHT still float, D&D won't, and joining the two at the hip will only insure Mystara doesn't float. -- Stonelight *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 21:18:50 -0500 From: "Kevin Melby" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Rising..petition Sorry about this mistake. - -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Melby To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM Date: Friday, May 29, 1998 8:43 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Rising..petition >Put me on the list. >My email adress is kmelby@skypoint.com >My city, state and country are St. Paul, Minnesota, USA. >-----Original Message----- >From: Daly >To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM Date: Friday, May 29, 1998 4:18 PM >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Rising..petition >>Jessie, my friend and fellow Mystaran, and any other late-coming Mystarans who are not aware of the petition to revive Mystara: >>There is a letter that has been written that over 40 loyal Mystarans have signed on to. If anyone else has a wish to be put on the petition letter then the time to send me your name, email address, city and country is NOW. >>I am sending it off tomorrow!!!!!!!!!! >>I'll make a quick post of the letter itself tonight to the list... >>************************************************************************** * >>To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >>'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 21:32:19 -0500 From: "Kevin Melby" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: >At 12:20 AM 5/29/98 EDT, you wrote: >>In a message dated 98-05-28 22:46:41 EDT, galwylin@airnet.net writes: >>>Mystara may be hard to >>>give an overall look at but not impossible. >>It might have worked out better if they had gotten around to producing that boxed set for Darokin -- Darokin, after all, is a centrally located nation that is on moderately good terms with all of its neighbors except the Broken Lands and Hule (which wasn't their neighber at all until they took over Sind). >You know, I think you have something here!! >I could just imagine the Darokin boxed set with its overview of the major nations via the diplomats and merchants. >And the unique quality of Darokin would have to be a turn on! But of course, someone in WotC/TSR will do something silly and put a CD of the same quality as K:KoA and G:KoM in to the Darokin boxed set. :-) Please don't get offended by my comment, all you CD fans out there. It was meant as a light hearted joke. Signed, Thrydmon the Wanderer, humble mage of Karameikos *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 23:05:30 -0400 From: Derek Harmon Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format Rob wrote: ( concerning "Mystara is the most magically infused planets.." ) YYeah.. *sigh* I know. Its the one thing of Mystara I really do not like. Is it me, or does no one UNDERSTAND what 9th level spells can do? You can forget this "army" thing - they wouldnt exist. An army would just be massacred by a few high level mages - they wouldnt have even the remotest Howabout a battle between two armies of one thousand 36th level Magic-Users? 3:D> : >I consider Mystara to be realistic. And it wouldnt be, if there were large numbers of high level mages wandering around. I agree with you in how I tend to run my low-fantasy campaigns; and there is a lot of references in Mystara to wierd stuff. Gnomish fighter pilots (I virtually barfed when I saw Top Ballista) and floating ships and just the bizarre. Some parts of Mystara seem to resemble that movie, Brazil, or something. 3:D> -- Stonelight *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 23:12:07 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - identifying speakers At 06:05 PM 5/29/98 -0700, Jenni A. M. Merrifield wrote: 22. Use the 'Reply to All' option instead of the regular 'Reply' option. Don't forget to check the 'To:' and 'Cc:' fields and use only one copy of the e-dress that you want to send the message to. Hey! It works! Thanks mom! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 23:36:54 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Rising..petition At 08:41 PM 5/29/98 -0500, you wrote: >Put me on the list. >My email adress is kmelby@skypoint.com >My city, state and country are St. Paul, Minnesota, USA. Thanks alot! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 21:08:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Adam Curtis Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Nothing's changed [and some thoughts on Thyatis] Rob wrote: [Mystara changes plenty over 1000 years] >Now compare it to the real world. Borders dont often > change, as a rule >- >countries are occupied, but only rarely do the borders undergo major >change. Where've you been lately?! The Western Hemisphere's last major change (at least the one that's off the top of my head) was when Peru gobbled up most of Ecuador in the Amazon basin. Not much seems to have happened since the US plays big brother. However, move over to the eastern hemisphere, and you get a whole other picture. Consider that just in the past hundred years: - - Europe has gone from about 14 nations to almost 50 in present day! - - Africa went from generally ill-defined tribal nations to a continent of strictly defined nation states. - - Israel ('nuff said). - - Asia undergoes mass transfers of territories and nation birthing that rivals both Europe and Africa. Keep in mind that those are only highlights. Here's where it all ties in with Mystara: - - Borders should undergo periodic changes. It's not so easy to do with a predefined fantasy setting (just look at Forgotten Realms. Major wars up the Wazoo and borders seldom change). The best way to do that short term is for Thyatis, once recoupped, to feel its shattered pride needs a new round of conquest. I'm pretty sure the designers of the Known World wanted a wide variety of cultures, so when they made Thyatis the military power of the Known World, they did not want Thyatis to actually rule the other cultures created to prevent confusion between cultures or their belittlement in the face of the conquerors. Therefore, they (the writers) gave Thyatis lands over the oceans (Isle of Dawn West, Ochalea, Pearl Islands, Hinterlands) that received little emphasis in the main Mystara campaign world just to show everyone Thyatis was powerful. All Known World nations, even those on the periphery, like Norwold and Sind, are very mature and won't be squashed under Thyatian culture writing-wise (in other words, places can be conquered now without belittling the native culture). In game terms . . . Now that its navy is reeling, Thyatis' best option is probably to make acquisitions in the continental (and far richer) lands of the Known World. I seriously doubt they won't try to reestablish Karameikos as a Thyatian puppet. Darokin is in dire straights at the moment. Thyatis could very well take 'policing action' and garrison this rich, less defended nation . . . and refuse to leave. And of course Thyatis has always wanted Ylaruam as much as it has Karameikos (don't know why. Does Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 01:40:23 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #365 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: f4cdc68dd151a986999c303be04f9286 someone else know?). The Thyatian army will likely slowly but surely move north. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 01:38:23 -0400 From: Derek Harmon Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Just what can a 12th level mage do to a Thyatian Legion? A lot! Rob wrote: >>How does a 12th level Mage take this down (assuming one batch of spells memorized and level-appropriate magic items) alone? The clerics and mages included in the mix alone should be able to neutralize him. : >Oops! Typo! I meant 20th level. But a unique challenge... (reaches for the PHB...) I've seen all these Munchkinesque tricks before.. 3:D> Bring them on... Okay, all of this assumes your Mage wins Initiative, and that the casting time isn't over before ANY of the 3,010 members of the Thyatian legion get Initiative (if you use Individual Initiative and don't mind rolling 3,011 times -- but its more realistic that way). 3;D> >Death Spell (thats an average of 40 guys dead right there, at a range of over 120 yards) Good, I'm sure the Thyatian Legion is glad that the Magic-User is within range of their _800_ heavy crossbowmen! 3;)> >Control Weather (bye bye, fleet!) >Lower Water (as above) >Polymorph Self (turn into sea elf, sneak up underwater, and see above... :) Well, these three tactics are suspect since the Legion is on land; I didn't hear anything about a fleet. AD&D mages don't have Control Weather.. wait -- I stand corrected, my PHB Spell Index doesn't have Control Weather, anyway, so you make it a little windier and warmer? Good waste of your sixth level spell unless the weather was already stormy to begin with. As for Lower Water, on an ocean? Minor inconvenience.. drop the water 24 feet in a very small area (perhaps wide enough to get one or two ships). >Or turn into umber hulk, and burrow through castle walls and that sort of thing) Ok, if the legion is in a castle. Easier for the legion to surround the Magic-User now, instead of actually coming out of the castle and envelop- ing him. >Contingency (no killing this guy, he'll have teleported back to base before he dies) As a 12th level Mage, his contingent spell must be fourth level or less. So he can't teleport. And even if he did teleport elsewhere using one of his four fifth level spells; there's a real chance he could err and materialize in rock or over water. Not to mention he fled the battle, hence the legion is victorious. >Ensnarement (bring on the immune to nonmagical weapon hydraxes/helions/krysts/tanari'ri etc. etc.) IF it worked (at considerable expense and preparation time), and this is a big IF, given all the things that can go wrong and the hours that might be spent in preparing/casting.. and IF you convinced the one creature to accompany you to a Legion it doesn't even know exists.. well, if you sent it alone I don't think it really counts. Your Mage may have to face its vengeance afterward. And it probably would take days or weeks to bring to service. And you can only cast one sixth level spell per day. I don't know this falls under the one day rubric. Given a few years, and millions of gold pieces, a Mage could build a small army ... >Invisibility (cant kill what u cant see) Yes, but the Mage becomes visible when attacking or casting an offensive spell. And they can hear his movement and any verbal components of non-offensive spells he uses after that point. >Fly (combined with invisibility - no sound of footsteps) Better.. but he'll have to slow down his flying movement to cast spells.. and the combo still doesn't allow easy attacks unless he becomes visible (remember the legion can launch 800 crossbow bolts, and their spellcasters can throw spells into the air). Plus there are penalties to the Mage in flight. So you demonstrate a 12th level mage can avoid a Thyatian legion, but not that he can really impact them.. >Suggestion ("you can go about your business - he's not the mage we're looking for...") Avoidance.. but no harm to the Legion. Plus, that hardly affects all 3,010 of them. 3:)> >Fireball (40' across? actually a little bigger, as the fireball would be a hemisphere. Thats one barracks well alit, killing anyone within it - then the mage leaves, comes back next night. And next night. And next night...) What if the barracks is made of stone? Can the Mage get it inside the barracks (it could explode outside the barracks if it hits a wall)? He needs a clear line of sight (fireballs can't bob and weave to their target). This assumes he gets into a base.. and certainly, since he'll be visible after the attack, it assumes he CAN leave, since a fireball will attract attention at night. >Reduce (you aint going to spot the 1" tall mage slinging death spells, fireballs etc.) Well, he only gets one death spell.. and a whole new world of monsters.. the common ant for example, can give the Mage new problems in his microverse. There are a lot more problems brought about by becoming 1" tall than is commonly realized. 3:D> >Chaos (that'll start a brawl - and a distraction - and clerics dont even get a save!) There's only a 30% chance anyone will brawl and for one round at a time. They may not brawl with each other. Most are fighters so they get a save, only lasts 12 rounds and at max affects 16 creatures. Meanwhile, there's still almost 3,000 soldiers to get you, since you'll only be 60 yards away from the disoriented folks (some of whom have a 10% chance to act nor- mally on any given round). >Seeming (turn yourself, and your mates, into soldiers) I thought you were just one 12th level Mage.. need help now? 3:)> Extra burden to turn your help into flying invisible reduced death-chucking soldiers.. turn yourself and five of your friends into soldiers, so what? Besides, you only look like them.. what about when they tell you to perform the Gamma Wheeling maneuver and you do it wrong. 3:)> Hardly going to disrupt 3,010 of them. Besides, won't they notice the six of you standing out not part of a regimentalized decade? Hey Commander, there's 3,016 of us.. see those six over there not in formations of ten? >Summon Shadow (immune to nonmagical weapons, make more shadows when you kill the soldiers! And 100% undetectable in darkness - ie nighttime) When confronted at night, what makes you think the four patriarchs won't start chucking light spells? Spotlight? No, that's Patriarch Cestius.. he's casting one of his eight light spells! Not to mention if they cast a silence on your Mage's clothes so he can't cast (and a fairy fire or light on your Mage to make him readily identifiable for the troops). Plus, this only works for 13 rounds, after which all four conjured shadows disappear, and the free-willed ones might come back and attack you. >Transmute Rock to Mud (castles will never be the same again) One small area of the castle will never be the same again. And of course, his high level spells are limited. It sounds like you're relying on a lot of one-pop spells. I'm not even sure the Mage has gotten initi- ative yet.. >Magic Jar (watch the soldiers play "find the mage and his magic jar..." - but sadly the mage is polymorphed into an umber hulk and is actually 60' underground... meanwhile they are being possessed and committing suicide at the rate of one a round - silently, and at night, while they sleep) Can an umber hulk who is underground perform the correct somatic gestures to complete the spell? As for the rate of death, it takes one round to possess them, then it takes at least one round to commit suicide (if they're sleeping, possibly much longer.. just because you possess them in their sleep doesn't mean they wake up.. they may be really tired 3;D> ) Plus, the umber hulk reverts to human form within four hours, so if its in earth, the caster's body will be destroyed. Especially if the caster possesses a sleeping soldier, this is a danger. But he may have a lousy body.. 3:D> "Why go to the gym, I'll just reach out and possess someone!" 3:)> >Fire Charm (affects all those looking at the flame - like, the entire army) The entire army won't be able to see the flame.. only those in the front row of the particular century the flame is in front of. That's ten men. >Stoneskin (even if the mage does get pinned down, this spell buys him time to leg it) Leg it where? He's being chased by 3,010 soldiers? 3:D> Each round, from the 800 crossbowmen alone, an AC 10 mage (to make for a simpler calculation) will be hit by 50% of 800 crossbow bolts for like 400 dice of damage! That is once they know he's there.. but really he'd need a couple thousand hit points to survive that, not to mention if he even gets more than his first spell off. And then there's the instant unavoidable death rule -- when 800 crossbow bolts are coming in your direction! I don't think DEX should apply to AC.. if you dodge one bolt there's another a few inches in any direction at the same time! 3:D> Stoneskin only protects against the first 7-10 attacks. >Massmorph (hide your own forces as a forest) This spell only works on willing creatures. And it has a limited area of effect.. you could get 120 square feet of soldiers. That is, assuming they want to look like trees. >Ice Storm (double the area effect of fireball - kills all low level guys in an 80' diameter circle - thats a big area! Get em while on parade and u could get a body count of at least 30 with one spell alone!) Okay, thirty. Only almost 3,000 left! >Protection from Normal Missiles (archers are no longer a problem) Hopefully you didn't cast this spell LAST! 3:D> Because by this time your 12th level Mage is dead. But okay, take back everything I said about the 800 crossbow bolts. >(sorry about the exhaustive list, tring to prove a point...) >Presumably the heroes will be trying to stop this. 2 14th level fighters and 4 9th level clerics. Well, the fighters are irrelevant when stoneskin Well, stoneskin only protects from the first seven or so attacks. And your mage could conceivably be surrounded by 1st-3rd level soldiers and sargeants, attacking six times per round. I mean, there are nearly 3,000 of them... >is taken into account. And hold person. True, the clerics can cast Okay, you can paralyze one to four soldiers at a time.. but any- way, the 14th level Fighters won't be coming after you because you don't warrant it, they'll be giving orders to the individual unit commanders. >spells. But they will find it very, very hard (like impossible) to counter some of the obscenity ive described above. OK - protection from evil against magic jar... Doesnt protect the little soldiers tho! Protection from Evil, 10' radius. But, when a wizard is attacking, silence is always the best policy, on his clothes, or especially his belt pouch with spell components -- he can't leave that behind (though it is a tough called shot). >And its the soldiers that are the key. Theres also this thing called "morale". After half of the garrison has been attacked by shadows at night/torn limb from limb by tanari/had their Immortal Soul destroyed by death spell/been attacked by the animated remnants of their comrades they will no longer be an effective fighting force. Well, most of these were 6th level spells that you can only do once; though I see a cowardly hit-and-run quality to your tactics as befits a mage. 3;D> However, who says the legion is going to stay there a second night, much less let the mage get away that easily? If he did recur, the Thyatians would use their connections to hire some adventurers. But in any event, he retreats so often it's hard to say the Thyatian Legion is the one that's being defeated. Counting up the instances of 20's, 30's and 40's.. (most of which are one-pop) how many nights until you get half the garrison? >And to end this - you have to kill/capture that mage. Very hard, when he can slip off with a word, and come back next night, to wreak more havoc. After a week of this all those soldiers will have had enough. More like a few months.. actually, they can march off themselves. Just like your mage is. Mage shows up one night, Thyatian Legion is camped there. Mage shows up the next.. aww.. they're gone! This is if they're on patrol or campaign somewhere, obviously, if they're in fortifications, they have substantial reserves to draw upon in solving the problem of this Mage. So, the Mage can obviously sneak through and avoid the Thyatian Legion.. and he can one-pop them for a few tens of casualties.. but I don't see a serious impact being made. And, well, your Mage would be lucky to win initiative. 3:)> >Now imagine what entire fleets of these high level mages could do. And there are fleets of high level mages on Mystara. Look at Alphatia! Conservative estimate - 10 20th level (AD+D) mages, working together, at any one time? Goodbye, Thyatian legion. By half a dozen ways, wish them (into the past) or any other.. 10 20th level Mages might be able to handle a Legion, but they would take losses. And its possible a Legion could take the 20th level Mages if the Legion attacked them when they didn't have all their preps ready (prot from missiles and all).. after all, how many 20th level Mages have the time in a day to memorize all the spells they'd need? If they're not prepped, they're much easier targets. Just break in while they're doing spell research.. they won't have any spells memorized. : >This is a long post - and probably one that most people wouldnt like either. Just an example... No problem, I'm all up for refuting it, or at least providing a challenging explanation of what a well-commanded Thyatian Legion would do. >The Thyatian Legion proudly marches across the Isle of Dawn, ready to Kick Ass in the Name of the Emperor. Ok, but they will have scouts out ahead and will set-up a watch perimeter.. SOP for a well-run unit entering enemy territory. >One night, while they are camped, a single Alphatian 20th level mage shadow walks into their camp and scouts out the entire place. He then reduces Shadow Walk doesn't usually work at night.. although it would depend on the particular campsite (if forested, clear skies and moonlight -- it might) because it depends on the presence of lots of shadows. Without the presence of lots of shadows, the connection with the Plane of Shadow cannot be made. He also must know the location of the legion, he can't scout this from the Plane of Shadow (he can come out at a specific spot, but he doesn't know what is there). You mean those Patriarchs didn't deploy Wards and Guardians on the camp before they went to sleep, shame on them! 3:D> >himself to 1" high, flies above the camp with the protection of prot from normal missiles, invisibility, stoneskin, and non detection, and volleys off Once he casts a death spell, the invisibility is dispelled. >three death spells. This kills 120 men - silently, in their beds. He could probably sling off a few more before hes noticed, but hes being conservative. He could sling off ONE more.. because he only has four 6th level spells memorized max. I won't even go into the expense of some of the material components for these spells, assuming you have 1,000 gp black pearls and 300 gp diamond dust coming out of your 20th level Mage's ears. 3;)> And every time you reduce you Mage to 1", remember his spell compo- nents reduce proportionately, therefore a 1,000 gp black pearl before shrink- ing is no longer worth 1,000 gp when its the size of a dust particle! In fact, your 1" tall character probably couldn't put his arms around the required material components for some of the spells he's suggested casting. And of course, this attack MUST be carried out at night, because the 20th level Mage spent 45 turns memorizing the spells you used in this example (7 1/2 hours)! In fact, he was probably fairly set in this plan this morn- ing... obviously he didn't waste time with any cheap spells. Only the prime attack specimens. 3:)> -- Stonelight *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #365 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 09:51:51 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #366 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 64572916eb306463df41d505c7f063db mystara-digest Saturday, May 30 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 366 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Just what can a 12th level mage do to a Thyatian Legion? A lot! Re: [MYSTARA] - Just what can a 12th level mage do to a Thyatian Legion? A lot! Re: [MYSTARA] - Just what can a 12th level mage do to a Thyatian Legion? A lot! Re: [MYSTARA] - Denagoth and Wendar [MYSTARA] - Horizon calculation [MYSTARA] - Tim's maps. Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Nothing's changed [and some thoughts on Thyatis] Re: [MYSTARA] - Just what can a 12th level mage do to a Thyatian Legion? A lot! Re: [MYSTARA] - Just what can a 12th level mage do to a Thyatian Legion? A lot! Re: [MYSTARA] - Just what can a 12th level mage do to a Thyatian Legion? A lot! Re: [MYSTARA] - Horizon calculation Re: [MYSTARA] - Just what can a 12th level mage do to a Thyatian Legion? A lot! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 03:51:38 -0400 From: Derek Harmon Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Just what can a 12th level mage do to a Thyatian Legion? A lot! Rob wrote: >>In which case, why haven't the thousand wizards of Alphatia dominated Mystara? >I dont know! They should have done! You tell me! Are they holding back or something? It puzzled me in WotI why the Alphatians werent in Thyatis in a week... After all - they could have, going by the spells they can cast. Well, aren't the Alphatians predominantly of aeromancer magical stock? I've heard this bantied about.. what strikes me as peculiar in all these dis- cussions is that all of these 1000 36th level wizards (or the Mages in your example, Rob..) seem to KNOW just the right set of spells to allow them to annoy (decimate, you would say) a Thyatian Legion. 3;)> If they all had 18 Intelligences, they'd only know 18 spells per level max (in D&D terms, they'd be limited to 12 spells per level max because that's all there basically are). And that they would know Shadow Walk and Teleport without Error.. those high-level spells should be hard to come by. They would not even know all low-level spells (though I admit, all would commonly exist at 3rd level and below) because of their spell limit. So they really don't all have those spells. One 36th level Mage might have (taking from the AD&D spell lists for potency) Shadow Walk but not Death, another might have Death but not Shadow Walk. These two Mages should be as likely to kill each other as to trade. Remember, each of the one thousand Mages is out for themselves... they aren't a cohesive unit like you make them out to be; they probably compete over matters and influence in the Council... lots of things can come between eccentric much too high-level Mages. >>And also on that note, why are the pithy fighters of Heldann doing so well, if mages are so godlike? >Plot twist. Thats what I dont like. If you ran that as an adventure, the mages would win every time. Writing it as part of a timeline tho is different. The full power of the mage (some would say cheesiness...) isnt being fully used. Actually, the full power of the mage is beeing mini-maxed. Of course, the Mage just HAPPENS to know the exact location of the Thyatian Legion, and he just HAPPENS to have memorized a precision battery of attack spells, and he just HAPPENS to hit them where they're not expecting it.. These are all too coincidental to be random. Picture the NORMAL day of the Mage.. his spell research, he might go days locked in his tower not memorizing any spells, it likely takes time for news to reach him of a Thyatian legion moving anywhere.. much less for him to plan an attack. It's very unlikely he has the specific spells you mentioned that he can memorize.. remember, his daily chores don't involve decimating Thyatian Legions, he's taking care of his own magical develop- ment, his apprentices, and other pressing political matters before he'll actually go out and fight firsthand. >Hey, Im with you here. I DONT like it! Its just that this is what high level mages ARE capable of. So I dont have them! Of course they have capabilities.. but who gave them those spells? An aeromancer shouldn't be caught dead with a transmute rock to mud spell, or polymorphed into an umber hulk of all things. Certainly, all one thou- sand shouldn't have them. If Joey the Archmage hears that Jaime the Arch- mage is getting an earth spell.. and Joey already has it.. Joey is just as likely to go bash Jaime as he is to go use it on a Thyatian fortification! If you're the only 36th level Magic-User with a certain spell, and someone else gets it: (i) your prestige is diminished amongst your peers, and (ii) the usurper MUST'VE stolen it from you! (no matter the truth, a duel is necessary - hence in the end only one 36th level Magic-User has that spell after all). >If anyone wants to tell me any defences an army out of the PWA might have against high level magics, believe me, I am most eager to find out. I certainly havnt been able to think of any... Well, first you shouldn't use contrived mages who just happen to have the attack spells handy. That same mage just walking to the next town, if surprised by a legion of 3,010 Thyatian soldiers, is dead meat hands down. So he can stock up and maybe kill one hundred of them.. and possibly escape.. do you really think they hang around so he can do it again. Their clerics and mages will come out ready with their magics to defend their troops. And more than likely, the legion will move.. since nothing is more vulnerable than 3,010 soldiers when you know where they are. You want a defense? Give me 3,010 Thyatian soldiers. You take 301 20th level AD&D mages. Take the Isle of Dawn, throw a dart at the map.. random battle site. The objective is to get as many of your people to the a specific (unseen) location on the other side of the hex the dart was thrown into (teleport will be to an unknown location.. all you know is it is a white building.. your 301 mages can't be OMNISCIENT above every location on Mystara). Assume your mages have intelligences of 14 + 1d4 each.. if you want a spell for a group of mages, make sure to check it's chance to know and only give it to a proportional fraction. If you'll allow me, 10 soldiers = 1 20th level mage.. 3:)> Both sides know the other side exists, but not from which direction its coming from. The time limit is one day. The width of the hex is eight miles. This is just a typical maneuvering and engagement exercise. Plan your strategy.. then scroll down (no peeking) : : : : Ok, here's what my Thyatian Legion is doing (judge effectiveness for yourself): The basic premise of this strategy is the entire legion cannot make it across the hex in one day without presenting a convenient target for the Mages. However, their advantage is they do not have to waste time memorizing spells all morning (remember to deduct time from your daylight available if your mages memorized spells). Eight units of 100 soldiers each (the ones without the crossbows, I need to keep them here) will be detached and ordered with their usual command staffs to advance eight miles ahead and then converge on the white building. They will go 1/2 mile to either side (2 units, one left, one right), 1 1/2 miles to either side (2 units), 2 1/2 miles and 3 1/2 miles so each unit is staggered and 1 mile from any other unit. The units having to go the longest distance will be going 15 miles (3 1/2 out, 8 up, 3 1/2 in) today. By split- ting up, it is expected that at least a few hundred soldiers will make it to the target site. They have orders to avoid Mages if spotted, and defend them- selves only if detected. The team going 3 1/2 to the right has the added responsibility of blazing the most convenient trail, see below. I will send the 2 F14 heroes separately to reconnoiter at a perimeter of a mile. In all likelihood, the Mages themselves will split up. My M9s will cast an Invisibility on each F14 to make them harder to detect. These two F14s will be equipped with horns which they can sound if they sight the enemy. They are not to directly engage unless attacked. As the sun sets, they are to make their way to target zone. I prefer my battles defensive. Figuring the 301 Mages won't bother with low level detection spells, I'll ignore attracting them to our location by detect magic, because I plan on taking advantage of my 4 Patriarchs and 4 Wizards (C9s and M9s respectively).. I'll also ignore protection from normal missiles, because they might not know when they stumble into our am- bush; if they cast it too early it'll wear off. I will order 800 men to dig up enough dirt to engulf the white build- ing under a mound of dirt. The Mages may not detect it in this manner. Since the Mages will likely be occupied for most of the first eight hours of the day memorizing, that should be enough time for these soldiers to conceal the lo- cation of the white building. My other soldiers will be locating boulders, rockfalls, trees that can be cut and prepared to fall easily over the paths of the enemy. Ropes or logs will be used to suspend these various constructions. Each such trap will be reinforced with 50 crossbowmen and 50 normal soldiers. These soldiers will remove all armor (like AC matters) and do their best to camouflage themselves. They will also maintain a skirmish formation, no two soldiers will be closer than 10 feet from each other. Their objective, should the enemy come within the path of a trap, is to let logs roll, boulders fall, dams burst, trees timber, etc. -- whatever the terrain affords. Optimally, they will position themselves on the highest ground available, overlooking convenient routes of entry. In swamps, they will submerge themselves as low as possible. These soldiers are not expected to make it to the far side, but if they kill enough 20th level mages through unavoidable death situations (such as boulders and the like) then they may still survive. I expect the Mages' attack to take place at night. Mainly because that will be when they finish memorizing spells. The Patriarchs (with WISs of 14 + 1d4) meaning all have at least 6 first level prayers, these will be pre-set with light/darkness spells. (healing is such a minor issue by this point, though each will carry one CLW in case of personal injury or injury to an officer). This gives 10 darks/10 lights which will be used to illuminate or blind Mage targets. If they strike before night- fall, they'll just be cast to blind them. These clerics are also stacked with 5 silence spells each on avg (for a total of 20) which they will attempt to cast on Mages' clothing to disrupt their verbal components. 2 third level spells (the bonus ones two of my patriarchs qualify for on average) will be dispel magics, just in case, though they'll probably be ineffective. Some of the patriarchs will use Stone Shape on rocky ground (if present) to form solid anklets around the feet of any Mages walking over it. Others will sit in tree branchs, and when a mage passes or flies beneath them, or is about to, will cast Tree (the dead trunk option) on themselves and then fall onto the Mage below (whatever the damage is for a falling tree trunk.. sounds like unavoidable death).. for the remaining 3rd level spells, hold person (x12, admittedly, unlikely to be effective, but might drop 5% of targets from flight).. and for 4th level, Halucinatory Forest on the dirt covered white building (x2), Giant Insect (x2) on flys to eat 1" tall mages when their attack begins, and Reflecting Pool (x1, the WIS 18 cleric's bonus) to learn interesting information after a horn has sounded or if the sun sets. When night falls, 800 men (the men accompanying the various trap constructions), the clerics, and a number of F10 and F6 commanders will remain to ambush any of the 301 mages that may arrive. My M9s will cast Massmorphs on the ambush units they can to make them look like trees (they won't attack unless they see Mages approaching the hallucinatory forest). The other men will move during the night on a direct route to the target site planning to get their by morning (so they shouldn't be lying in wait like we are)..accompanied by the Mages with their spells, used to sneak and conceal as many men as possible. These other men will march in spread formation, not tightly packed, no closer than 10 yards from each other. The mages will come equiped with detect magics at first level, so as to detect any illusions or other traps that may've been placed on the white building. Their route is direct unless reflecting pool reveals the bulk of the Mages are coming that way; in that case, they will perform a forced march on a circuitous route 3 1/2 miles to the right, up, and in. Admittedly, if anything slows the Legion up on this longer route, they won't make it by sunrise. - -- So, how many of the Thyatian Legion made it to the white building by sunrise? How many do you think the Mages intercepted? How many Mages made it (and located) the white building on the Thyatian side? Just curious.. I don't doubt your Mages could wipe out the Thyatian forces left behind, but those that look like trees they may not notice, and they may or may not have planned for the divinatory spells necessary to locate the white building; hence accomplish their objectives. Meanwhile, I expect at least one-third of the Thyatian Legion will make it to the while building, especially if your Mages didn't conceal or boobytrap it (shame on you). 3:D> That neither side can decimate the other in an hypothetical exer- cise like this one is exactly why neither side, Thyatis nor Alphatia, has taken the advantage. And whatever your success in this exercise was, I think Alphatia really would be hard pressed to assemble an actual cooperative unit of hundreds of high-level MUs.. you might not even get 301 of them. 3:)> -- Stonelight *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 02:05:32 -0600 (MDT) From: John Hare Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Just what can a 12th level mage do to a Thyatian Legion? A lot! I think the key use of any mage (regardless of level) is situation, situation, situation. Think about it. If the mage does something stupid where 3000+ people can surround him well it would be game over there. But employed with some intelligence and useful spells a mage can slow down and cause attrition. With some luck they might even survive to tell their grandkids. Example the mage discovers the legions route of advance. (not to hard because terrain will dictate especially in mountain areas) Now drop some interesting objects with explosive runes. (perhaps captured message scrolls) You might also have some road signs enscribed (DM's call there :) Or items with Fire Trap. Chances are you scouts will go boom, at least a couple, which will make them more wary and thus travel slower, over decide not to investigate other objects for fear of similar occurences. If the legion is traveling though grassland (in a dry season) then igniting it Melf's Minute Meteors would be useful (so long as the wind is going the right way :) Multiple fires could quickly spread before all could be extinguished. (as example of 12th mage... 12 chances of fires, spread along a wide frontage could be devestating or at least slow the legion down. Of course the water creation spells of the legion clerics may be able to deal with some of this but all... possible, depending on how much gets affected. Or even a quick wall of fire might cause a quick grass fire. Water Breathing w/ Invis could allow a mage to get close to any siege train or supply wagons. And with Fly & Contingency to Dimension Door away would allow a quick getaway before there is much chance of a reaction. (think how many times does any one go and check the pond to see if there is someone lurking there.) But the best antidote for any possible mage attack, is your own group of mages. But for all out devestation in one attack... unlikely to wipe out a full legion all by himself. With some fellow adventurers and some magic items... perhaps. But just remember that the tactics may have been used against the legion before... which would mean that they have some plane to negate its effect or at least minimize it. Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 09:51:51 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #366 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 64572916eb306463df41d505c7f063db "If death is inevitable, you might as well lie back and enjoy it." -Solomon Short _A Season for Slaughter_ John Hare *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 03:35:43 -0600 (MDT) From: John Hare Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Just what can a 12th level mage do to a Thyatian Legion? A lot! >20th level AD&D mages. Take the Isle of Dawn, throw a dart at the map.. random battle site. The objective is to get as many of your people to the a specific (unseen) location on the other side of the hex the dart was thrown into (teleport will be to an unknown location.. all you know is it is a white building.. your 301 mages can't be OMNISCIENT above every location on Mystara). Assume your mages have intelligences of 14 + 1d4 each.. if you want a spell for a group of mages, make sure to check it's chance to know and only give it to a proportional fraction. If you'll allow me, 10 soldiers = 1 20th level mage.. 3:)> Both sides know the other side exists, but not from which direction its coming from. The time limit is one day. The width of the hex is eight miles. This is just a typical maneuvering and engagement exercise. Plan your strategy.. Assumption 1) that the mages don't have to memorize every spell they want. (after all they don't go away unless cast, just may mean they don't have 5 fireballs memorized). So they would have perhaps say upto 4 hours for some mages to memorize, but not all. 2) I'm not going to bother with calculating who has what exact spells... on average say 5% has any given spell over 6th level. And the remainder enough to suit our needs. 1) Protection. Mass Invisibility, should cover the entire group. Sentry positions established in a 300 yard radius around the position. (notably those mages who lack the higher intelligences, but have whispering wind spells available. Also some other useful spells. 2) Camoflage. Hallucinatory Terrain the building into surrounding terrain. Two establish outside the perimeter 8 hallucinatory buildings which can be seen by the observation posts. (observation posts are using Leomund's Huts and things to aid their hiding positions.) 3) Protection. Walled fortifications are created around the false buildings. (wall of stone/wall of iron/plant growth), also Alarm spells & Charm Plants to trip up intruders. Also Evard's Black Tentacle spells will be used with Hallucinatory terrain on them as well. 4) Recce. Those with both fly spells/poly self & wispering wind will be sent out at max speed in the 4 main compass points and the 4 sub-points to do spiral circles after the reach 8 miles in distance. Should the building be sited they use whispering wind back to the main body which has been doing its combat memorization. (not all mages are required for every thing and once certain defenses are up can rememorize certain spells. Note the Recce could even be performed by those with Mount & Phantom Mount spells as well. Most of these would happen soon after the start was declared (sunrise?) because speed is vital. If additional recce persons are available (ie with appropriate spells) the area to be searched could be covered very quickly. Also flying at about 400+ yards would prevent most sniper fire from crossbows and such. Once located the main battle force could be called in for air strike, most likely around night fall. Common spells Continual light / Light / Infravision / Attack spells (almost anything goes) Fly spells & Protection from Normal Missiles. Mages without Pro. from Normal Missiles would drop the prepared continual light stones on the target area. Mages with Improved Invis. would drop and attack with shorter ranges spells (death, power stun, monster summons, sleep ) all to incapacitate any defenders. After that securing the area would be walls of fire. While the majority land and take the building (more monster summons/ summon shadows etc) There are probably some other things I would do, but then I would have to figure out exactly what percentage knows which spells and so forth. And I don't plan to generate that much data any time soon. Of course those without travel spells (mount, phantom mount, fly or poly other would have to be supplied by other members. "If death is inevitable, you might as well lie back and enjoy it." -Solomon Short _A Season for Slaughter_ John Hare *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 11:48:00 +0200 (METDST) From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Denagoth and Wendar Robert Fry wrote: <> Uhmm, well.. so you expect a big war between Wendar and Denagoth, uh? Something like old X11 but this time with armies ready on both sides.. well, could be.. For now what i've come up with it's a rehash of M3, giving it a more solid background and a twisted side-plot.. <> I'm glad we're on the same line here.. :) <> ahh! The great mystery behind Idris.. well, i'll tell you something that won't spoil anything (unless you're able to read my mind.;)). Think of this: why is the Shadowlord trying to obtain the Black Staff? Because he thinks it will give him complete mastery over the undead and that with its powers he'll be able to attain full lichdom. But we know the Black Staff from M3 has no such powers.. So why does the SL think it? Who inspired him these thoughts? Idris?.. I can only tell you that one day he heard voices in his head speaking of the fabolous powers of a mysterious Black Staff.. power over the dead and the living.. but to reach the Black Staff he had to open the gates to the Pyts of Banishment.. So he began researching and found out what the Pits were.. and who its inhabitants were.. But he doesn't know anything more about the Black Staff (since the carnifex devised it during their life inside the Pits..). So who told (lied to) him? Idris (who's presumably already been using him for a long time)? But is Idris that powerful to know about the carnifex's plans and magics? I leave you with these thoughts.. DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 06:15:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Savoie Subject: [MYSTARA] - Horizon calculation >Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 18:40:23 -0400 >From: Derek Harmon Subject: [MYSTARA] - Looking Out My Window... >Would I see the Black Peak Mountains, 80 miles north? >I figure they're decent sized mountains, about 4,500 feet (PWA3). Your calculations were overkill. The simple approximation for how far something a certain height above the terrain can be seen is visibility in miles = square root (3/2*height in feet) The mountains 4,500 feet tall can appear as far away as 82.16 miles, but only from the barest reflections of light glinting off the snowy peaks. And smaller hills much closer to Specularum would block the image anyway. But that ASSUMES you would be standing at sea-level instead of from some high vantage-point of your own. Why would you do that? You can see the peaks fine from the 500-foot tower built by the Black Peaks Appreciation Society, Specularum Chapter. I also wrote an essay on some space-physics formulas for the STAR FRONTIERS RPG and a similar one for THE BABYLON PROJECT RPG. It proved that the STAR FRONTIERS ship-acceleration system was messed up, and that space-stations in the game were orbitting planets three times faster than they really would. If anyone's interested, drop me a line in private E-mail. Science rules! I'm still thinking of some way to make a Doomsday Device that shakes the very foundations of the Known World from one of those cutesy demoes the kids do on the science-shows. Bargle says, "Pay me 50,000,000 gold-pieces, or I drop this sodium bicarbonate asteroid into the Sea of Dawn!" - ---Pierre Savoie (ab966@torfree.net) 15th-level Cleric of Bilnaida Saiyansgai *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 12:40:24 +0200 From: Ezio Pignatelli Subject: [MYSTARA] - Tim's maps. >http://CWSpot.com/mystara/gamers/Tinman/Karameikos.gif http://CWSpot.com/mystara/gamers/Tinman/5shires.gif http://CWSpot.com/mystara/gamers/Tinman/thyatis.gif they are wonderful! Go on..... waiting for Darokin (yeppiahyo!) - -- Ezio Pignatelli - Dipartimento di Astronomia - Padova Tel: +39-49-8293459 - Fax: +39-49-8759840 mailto:epignat@leda.pd.astro.it http://leda.pd.astro.it/~epignat - -- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 09:26:04 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Nothing's changed [and some thoughts on Thyatis] At 09:08 PM 5/29/98 -0700, Adam Curtis wrote: RRob wrote: >And of course Thyatis has always wanted Ylaruam as much as it has Karameikos (don't know why. Does someone else know?). The Thyatian army will likely slowly but surely move north. Oil? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 09:19:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Just what can a 12th level mage do to a Thyatian Legion? A lot! At 03:51 AM 5/30/98 -0400, you wrote: >Rob wrote: >>>In which case, why haven't the thousand wizards of Alphatia dominated Mystara? >>I dont know! They should have done! You tell me! Are they holding back or something? It puzzled me in WotI why the Alphatians werent in Thyatis in a week... After all - they could have, going by the spells they can cast. Read Dawn of the Emperors; the 1000 super-mages of Alphatia don't get involved with wars and such because they simply can't be bothered. This one over here's experimenting with cross-breeding, this one's concerned with setting proper fashion styles in her dominion, this one's redecorating the entire region with silver grass... They're not warlords, their mad scientists with magic. They're all working on their own pet projects, and 'let someone else handle it' is their favorite expression. IF they ever decided to actually work together (difficult to do when so many of them are flaming Chaotics), they could cause large amounts of damage and upheaval all over Mystara. But they won't. Picture a thousand university professors, physicists, and engineers, all totally devoted to their work. They couldn't take over a kitchen cabinet, let alone the whole world. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 09:38:51 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Just what can a 12th level mage do to a Thyatian Legion? A lot! At 01:38 AM 5/30/98 -0400, Derek Harmon wrote: RRob wrote: >>lotsa excellent point counterpoint stuff snipped<< Since Stonelight did such an excellent job with the specific spells brought up, cast by this one daring mage, I won't go into specifics. But in general, all the spells were assuming the legion has no experience in magic, is not expecting an attack, and is standing around in groups like boobs night after night. That is the neat thing about a good military, they try to figure out all the contingencies and have plans to defend against them. What sort of preperations, camp-wise, does a fantasy army make each night? I mean whether they expect attack or not... Perhaps anti-magic spells at the approaches? Guards with detect invisibles on them? Paladins scouting the area with their detect evils? What other preperations can you think of? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 09:45:32 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Just what can a 12th level mage do to a Thyatian Legion? A lot! At 03:51 AM 5/30/98 -0400, Derek Harmon wrote: RRob wrote: >>>In which case, why haven't the thousand wizards of Alphatia dominated Mystara? You are talking about the ruling council, NOT the military. Imagine 1000 Bill Clintons who have studied hard (not necessarily adventured) and attained such a level. They are more interested in the acquisition of power, and sending "the boys" to do the military work, than in going out and combating a legion of trained warriors... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 09:51:16 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Horizon calculation At 06:15 AM 5/30/98 -0400, Pierre Savoie wrote: Can you tell me this...what is normal sight range for a human on a clear day? Just a single figure...forget terrain and weather is not a problem. Okay, fog can be as thick as we want it, as can rain. So I figure weather can be anything under this overall number. But how about terrain now? Well, I'll wait for the answer to the first question... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 14:55:12 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Just what can a 12th level mage do to a Thyatian Legion? A lot! Oh ho! A challenge!!!! Seriously tho - the most powerful abilities of the mage are the miscellaneous ones, rather than raw combat ability. >Okay, all of this assumes your Mage wins Initiative, and that the casting time isn't over before ANY of the 3,010 members of the Thyatian legion get Initiative (if you use Individual Initiative and don't mind rolling 3,011 times -- but its more realistic that way). 3;D> I doubt the mage is dumb enough to stand in front of the 800 heavy crossbowmen firing squad. IThe mage has so many methods of infiltrating the legion that he should be able to get in, do damage, and get out again before the legion really knows whats hit. >Well, these three tactics are suspect since the Legion is on land; I didn't hear anything about a fleet. AD&D mages don't have Control Weather.. >wait -- I stand corrected, my PHB Spell Index doesn't have Control Weather, anyway, so you make it a little windier and warmer? Good waste of your sixth >level spell unless the weather was already stormy to begin with. well, if theres a strong wind blowing u can turn it into a storm. Thats a seaworthiness check in the AD+D rules. Roughly 50% chance of survival for a Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 09:51:51 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #366 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 64572916eb306463df41d505c7f063db galley. Which I assume is what Thyatis uses. And if there IS a storm, than youve got a hurricane, and then it definitely is Bye Bye Fleet. As for >Lower Water, on an ocean? Minor inconvenience.. drop the water 24 feet in a very small area (perhaps wide enough to get one or two ships). No, no no. Lower water cast at sea creates a whirlpool that "sweeps ships and similar craft downward, putting them at risk and rendering them unable to leave the area for the duration of the spell." And when the spell expires the ship will suddenly find itself 24' under water. Or when the spell is dispelled by the foolish cleric, for that matter. Either way, when a lower water is cast - the ship it was cast on is toast. And a big ship might be holding an appreciable number of men. >>Or turn into umber hulk, and burrow through castle walls and that sort of thing) >Ok, if the legion is in a castle. Easier for the legion to surround the Magic-User now, instead of actually coming out of the castle and envelop- >ing him. The point is - the mage can strike anywhere, anytime. He can fly, go underground, turn into a wren and do scouting... Perfect reconnaisance and the ability to use it. >>Contingency (no killing this guy, he'll have teleported back to base before >>he dies) >As a 12th level Mage, his contingent spell must be fourth level or less. So he can't teleport. And even if he did teleport elsewhere using one of his four fifth level spells; there's a real chance he could err and materialize in rock or over water. Not to mention he fled the battle, hence >the legion is victorious. Dimension door to an underground cave which he created as an umber hulk? followed by a poly self and leg it? >>Ensnarement (bring on the immune to nonmagical weapon hydraxes/helions/krysts/tanari'ri etc. etc.) >IF it worked (at considerable expense and preparation time), and this is a big IF, given all the things that can go wrong and the hours that might be spent in preparing/casting.. and IF you convinced the one creature to accompany you to a Legion it doesn't even know exists.. well, if you sent it alone I don't think it really counts. Your Mage may have to face its vengeance afterward. And it probably would take days or weeks to bring to service. And you can only cast one sixth level spell per day. I don't know this falls under the one day rubric. Given a few years, and millions of gold pieces, a Mage could build a small army ... Not really an if. If you check out the chance of that spell failing, even with a circle drawn in chalk, its really minimal (less than 5%). And if he was a wild mage with Alternate Reality its even more minimal... (wild mages rule!) >>Invisibility (cant kill what u cant see) >Yes, but the Mage becomes visible when attacking or casting an offensive spell. And they can hear his movement and any verbal components of non-offensive spells he uses after that point. Improved Invisibility? Besides, its irrelevant. The mage only needs to get the drop. Thanks to his excellent recon efforts previously, he'll be going for weak points (men in their beds)rather than the set wall of 800 heavy crossbowmen. >>Fly (combined with invisibility - no sound of footsteps) >Better.. but he'll have to slow down his flying movement to cast spells.. and the combo still doesn't allow easy attacks unless he becomes visible (remember the legion can launch 800 crossbow bolts, and their spellcasters can throw spells into the air). Plus there are penalties to the Mage in flight. So you demonstrate a 12th level mage can avoid a Thyatian legion, but not that he can really impact them.. 1" high mage at 120 yards away would be effectively invisible. Unspottable, anyway. >>Suggestion ("you can go about your business - he's not the mage we're looking for...") >Avoidance.. but no harm to the Legion. Plus, that hardly affects all 3,010 of them. 3:)> No, just the commanding officers... lol. Like a simple 1st level charm spell... >>Fireball (40' across? actually a little bigger, as the fireball would be a >>hemisphere. Thats one barracks well alit, killing anyone within it - then >>the mage leaves, comes back next night. And next night. And next night...) >What if the barracks is made of stone? Can the Mage get it inside the barracks (it could explode outside the barracks if it hits a wall)? He needs >a clear line of sight (fireballs can't bob and weave to their target). This >assumes he gets into a base.. and certainly, since he'll be visible after the >attack, it assumes he CAN leave, since a fireball will attract attention at night. Well, if the legion is on the move, in a war situation, presumably they would be tents. And a fireball doesnt miss. The mage could send it through a window (Gulf War?). When it explodes inside the fireball takes up 33,000 cubic feet of building - going under doors, round corridors etc. >>Reduce (you aint going to spot the 1" tall mage slinging death spells, fireballs etc.) >Well, he only gets one death spell.. and a whole new world of monsters.. the common ant for example, can give the Mage new problems in his microverse. There are a lot more problems brought about by becoming 1" tall than is commonly realized. 3:D> Funny thing with reduce is that it doesnt change the mages stats. The ant would get a surprise when he misses the AC 3 invisible mailed mage, and gets crushed by the mages little staff. Besides, theres ways around that. Fly? >>Chaos (that'll start a brawl - and a distraction - and clerics dont even get >>a save!) >There's only a 30% chance anyone will brawl and for one round at a time. They may not brawl with each other. Most are fighters so they get a save, only lasts 12 rounds and at max affects 16 creatures. Meanwhile, >there's still almost 3,000 soldiers to get you, since you'll only be 60 yards >away from the disoriented folks (some of whom have a 10% chance to act nor- mally on any given round). Ah, but someone chaosed who is attacked perceives the attacker to be an enemy, and reacts accordingly. After a few rounds there would be a brawl. It would discourage pursuit, should the mage be rumbled. And, like i said, would eliminate Patriarch Cestius without even a saving throw... >>Seeming (turn yourself, and your mates, into soldiers) >I thought you were just one 12th level Mage.. need help now? 3:)> Extra burden to turn your help into flying invisible reduced death-chucking soldiers.. turn yourself and five of your friends into soldiers, so what? Besides, you only look like them.. what about when they tell you to perform the Gamma Wheeling maneuver and you do it wrong. 3:)> Lol. No use perhaps if the mage is on his own. But it is a spell that has handy applications when the Alphatians want to send in their own special forces assassins. (I think assassinating the leader of an enemy force before a fight is -50 to their BR?) >Hardly going to disrupt 3,010 of them. Besides, won't they notice the six of you standing out not part of a regimentalized decade? Hey Commander, there's 3,016 of us.. see those six over there not in formations of ten? Well, six of them probably have been bumped off by now... >>Summon Shadow (immune to nonmagical weapons, make more shadows when you kill >>the soldiers! And 100% undetectable in darkness - ie nighttime) >When confronted at night, what makes you think the four patriarchs won't start chucking light spells? Spotlight? No, that's Patriarch Cestius.. >he's casting one of his eight light spells! Not to mention if they cast a silence on your Mage's clothes so he can't cast (and a fairy fire or light on your Mage to make him readily identifiable for the troops). >Plus, this only works for 13 rounds, after which all four conjured shadows disappear, and the free-willed ones might come back and attack you. The free willed ones will probably be in the middle of a heaving mass of legionaries. They'll go for whatever is nearest to them. The mage could well be in another country at this point... :) >>Transmute Rock to Mud (castles will never be the same again) >One small area of the castle will never be the same again. And of course, his high level spells are limited. It sounds like you're relying on a lot of one-pop spells. I'm not even sure the Mage has gotten initi- ative yet.. Small Area??? Yeah right! You dont cast it at the castle - you cast it at the foundations, so the castle sinks 20' into the mud (probably collapsing as it does so). A 12th level mage would get a square 70' on a side - thats pretty big! Especially when he can shape the area of effect to run along the castle walls, to get maximum efficiency out of that area of effect. >>Magic Jar (watch the soldiers play "find the mage and his magic jar..." - but sadly the mage is polymorphed into an umber hulk and is actually 60' underground... meanwhile they are being possessed and committing suicide at >>the rate of one a round - silently, and at night, while they sleep) >Can an umber hulk who is underground perform the correct somatic gestures to complete the spell? As for the rate of death, it takes one round to possess them, then it takes at least one round to commit suicide (if they're sleeping, possibly much longer.. just because you possess them in their sleep doesn't mean they wake up.. they may be really tired 3;D> ) An umber hulk with hands could... Polymorph self doesnt have to turn u into something out of a monstrous compendium entry... With magic jar u could just knock off all the sergeants. And once you have possessed someone in the barracks, and woken him up, you could slit the throats of quite a few before u had to commit suicide yourself. >Plus, the umber hulk reverts to human form within four hours, so if its in earth, the caster's body will be destroyed. Especially if the caster possesses a sleeping soldier, this is a danger. But he may have a lousy body.. 3:D> "Why go to the gym, I'll just reach out and possess someone!" 3:)> 4 hours is a very long time... >>Fire Charm (affects all those looking at the flame - like, the entire army) >The entire army won't be able to see the flame.. only those in the front row of the particular century the flame is in front of. That's ten men. Anyone who wants to shoot a crossbow bolt at the mage must by definition be looking at him. And the mage can wander around holding a fire charmed lantern as he goes about his nefarious deeds. And dont forget the suggestion... >>Stoneskin (even if the mage does get pinned down, this spell buys him time >>to leg it) >Leg it where? He's being chased by 3,010 soldiers? 3:D> dim door, teleport, fly, umber hulk underground getaway... the possibilities are limitless... >Each round, from the 800 crossbowmen alone, an AC 10 mage (to make for a simpler calculation) will be hit by 50% of 800 crossbow bolts for like >400 dice of damage! That is once they know he's there.. but really he'd need >a couple thousand hit points to survive that, not to mention if he even gets >more than his first spell off. And then there's the instant unavoidable death >rule -- when 800 crossbow bolts are coming in your direction! I don't think >DEX should apply to AC.. if you dodge one bolt there's another a few inches in any direction at the same time! 3:D> As the mage, with all of his recon and high Intelligence to guide him, appears in front of the serried ranks of crossbowmen, and starts casting... I dont think so... >>Ice Storm (double the area effect of fireball - kills all low level guys in >>an 80' diameter circle - thats a big area! Get em while on parade and u could get a body count of at least 30 with one spell alone!) >Okay, thirty. Only almost 3,000 left! 30, per spell... >Well, stoneskin only protects from the first seven or so attacks. And your mage could conceivably be surrounded by 1st-3rd level soldiers and sargeants, attacking six times per round. I mean, there are nearly 3,000 of >them... yeah, but they wont all the where the wizard has chosen to attack. The wiz will go in, strike at weak points and undefended men (3000 men would take quite a bit of defending when asleep I think!) and then get out again. Hit and run tactics. >>is taken into account. And hold person. True, the clerics can cast >Okay, you can paralyze one to four soldiers at a time.. but any- way, the 14th level Fighters won't be coming after you because you don't warrant it, they'll be giving orders to the individual unit commanders. After a couple of hundred troopers have died tangling with this mage over the course of a week i'm not sure they'll be so eager to go for him. After all. morale is the key. The mage doesnt have to kill all 3000 of them. He just has to put the fear of the Immortals into all those pressed peasant levies, and kill all the commanders. >Protection from Evil, 10' radius. But, when a wizard is attacking, silence is always the best policy, on his clothes, or especially his belt pouch with spell components -- he can't leave that behind (though it is a tough called shot). The wiz gets a save - a good save. Some spells dont need the wiz to speak. Some spells let a mage cast spells without speaking! And chances are the cleric will be disrupted before he gets his laughably high casting time clerical spells off. Or, the mage has dim doored away. >Well, most of these were 6th level spells that you can only do once; though I see a cowardly hit-and-run quality to your tactics as befits a mage. Hit and run is the key. Cowardly? Who says mages are honourable? The mage has his strengths and his weaknesses. In a toe to toe fight he will lose. Of course he will - hes a mage, not a warrior. The honour you are talking about is warriors honour - a mage who follows that isnt very intelligent IMHO. Besides, its war. Anything goes! >3;D> However, who says the legion is going to stay there a second night, much less let the mage get away that easily? If he did recur, the Thyatians >would use their connections to hire some adventurers. But in any event, he retreats so often it's hard to say the Thyatian Legion is the one that's being defeated. Counting up the instances of 20's, 30's and 40's.. (most of which are one-pop) how many nights until you get half the garrison? An invisible stalker, magic mirror, crystal ball etc. would solve that problem. Besides, its a bit hard not to notice 3000 men tramping across the countryside. You dont need to get half the garrison. 10-20% should be enough to make the pressed peasant levies think twice... Only a very highly disciplined and professional army would be able to keep going after that. Besides, the mage has plenty of time... >I won't even go into the expense of some of the material components for these spells, assuming you have 1,000 gp black pearls and 300 gp diamond >dust coming out of your 20th level Mage's ears. 3;)> High level mages must be loaded. Besides, if hes tangling with a legion I'm sure his government will provide expenses. A couple of tens of thousands of gp to rout a thyatian legion? Sounds good to me! >And every time you reduce you Mage to 1", remember his spell compo- nents reduce proportionately, therefore a 1,000 gp black pearl before shrink- >ing is no longer worth 1,000 gp when its the size of a dust particle! In fact, your 1" tall character probably couldn't put his arms around the required material components for some of the spells he's suggested casting. Hmm. Youve got me there. But your argument is debatable. It sez that reduce doesnt effect magical properties of items. I wouldnt have thought, personally, that a reduce spell would prevent a mage from casting his death spell. >And of course, this attack MUST be carried out at night, because the 20th level Mage spent 45 turns memorizing the spells you used in this example >(7 1/2 hours)! In fact, he was probably fairly set in this plan this morn- ing... obviously he didn't waste time with any cheap spells. Only the prime >attack specimens. 3:)> Well, thats not a problem really now is it? After all, the mage has plenty of time. 8 hours kip, 8 hours memorising his spells, and 8 hours to play hell with the legion? As the mage mixes business with pleasure... :) Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #366 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 15:30:19 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #367 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 26216193a932b66cc0def24ce899ec31 mystara-digest Saturday, May 30 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 367 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Just what can a 12th level mage do to a Thyatian Legion? A lot! [MYSTARA] - THE PETITION GROWS! Re: [MYSTARA] - Just what can a 12th level mage do to a Thyatian Legion? A lot! Re: [MYSTARA] - Denagoth and Wendar Re: [MYSTARA] - Horizon calculation Re: [MYSTARA] - Just what can a 12th level mage do to a Thyatian Legion? A lo [MYSTARA] - Petition letter--failed addresses Re: [MYSTARA] - Just what can a 12th level mage do to a Thyatian Legion? A lot! Re: [MYSTARA] - Just what can a 12th level mage do to a Thyatian Legion? A lo Re: [MYSTARA] - Just what can a 12th level mage do to a Thyatian Legion? A lot! [MYSTARA] - Re: your mail Re: [MYSTARA] - Just what can a 12th level mage do to a Thyatian Legion? A lot! Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format Re: [MYSTARA] - THE PETITION GROWS! Re: [MYSTARA] - Tanegioth Archipelago: many many problems.. (LONG) Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf stuff Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf stuff Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf stuff Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 09:57:53 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Just what can a 12th level mage do to a Thyatian Legion? A lot! At 09:19 AM 5/30/98 -0400, Glen Sprigg wrote: AAt 03:51 AM 5/30/98 -0400, you wrote: >>Rob wrote: >>>>In which case, why haven't the thousand wizards of Alphatia dominated Mystara? >They're not warlords, their mad scientists with magic. They're all working on their own pet projects, >Picture a thousand university professors, physicists, and engineers, all totally devoted to their work. They couldn't take over a kitchen cabinet, let alone the whole world. I think Glen put it alot better than I did... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 10:04:29 -0400 From: Daly Subject: [MYSTARA] - THE PETITION GROWS! We have over 60 signatures now!!!! This may not seem like much when talking about an overall economic picture...but just consider that these are all people who have access to either the MML, the MMB, or someone on either of those. The 63 of us definitely represent more than our mere numbers! Last chance btw, sign on today! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 15:10:38 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Just what can a 12th level mage do to a Thyatian Legion? A lot! >You want a defense? Give me 3,010 Thyatian soldiers. You take 301 20th level AD&D mages. Take the Isle of Dawn, throw a dart at the map.. random battle site. The objective is to get as many of your people to the a specific (unseen) location on the other side of the hex the dart was thrown >into (teleport will be to an unknown location.. all you know is it is a white >building.. your 301 mages can't be OMNISCIENT above every location on Mystara). >Assume your mages have intelligences of 14 + 1d4 each.. if you want a spell for >a group of mages, make sure to check it's chance to know and only give it to >a proportional fraction. If you'll allow me, 10 soldiers = 1 20th level mage.. >3:)> Both sides know the other side exists, but not from which direction its >coming from. The time limit is one day. The width of the hex is eight miles. >This is just a typical maneuvering and engagement exercise. Plan your strategy.. >then scroll down (no peeking) Lol. I love it! I think the shapechanged into an eagle mage would spot most of your little tricks tho (thats the first thing I thought of. I was leaving out nasty side effect stuff like Vision). And splitting your force up means they would be devastated by a couple of well armed 20th level mages. The most powerful aspect of a high level mage is that he doesnt have to personally enter combat at all. His simulacra/undead/summoned beasties do all the work for him. I think the Legion could achieve the victory conditions u specify. But whether they arrive at their destination or not is irrelevant, if they cannot effectively engage the enemy. They may capture the village, but the mages will just attrition them down. Over the course of the entire campaign (say a year in length?) the armies would be horribly mauled by the end. I tell u what. I'm going to start running WotI scenarios very soon for a high level party. The party is pretty much mage oriented, and pretty horrifically multiclassed, but then, there are only 6 of them, not 301... all around 12-16th level (depending on class). I'll use your strategies and victory conditions, and see what happens. BTW - i did like your tactics. I'm not pro mage here - i'm really just looking for ways in which said Legion would have a defence against them. I'll try your stuff out, and see how it goes... It should be good! Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 15:17:09 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Denagoth and Wendar >Robert Fry wrote: ><We arent talking about some little tiny elven village in the pine trees here... Its somewhere between Glantri and Ethengar in population, and with all those Alfheim clanmasters its not exactly short of hardnuts. I expect a >Titanic (couldnt resist, with all this movie stuff flying around) fight.>> >Uhmm, well.. so you expect a big war between Wendar and Denagoth, uh? Something like old X11 but this time with armies ready on both sides.. well, >could be.. For now what i've come up with it's a rehash of M3, giving it a more solid background and a twisted side-plot.. ><> >I'm glad we're on the same line here.. :) The chaos thing could easily prevent Wendar from being able to mount an effective attack/defence against Denagoth. Depends what happens... And yes I was thinking of X11... (IT RULES!) Which ones M3? Talons of Night? ><> >ahh! The great mystery behind Idris.. well, i'll tell you something that won't spoil anything (unless you're able to read my mind.;)). Think of this: why is the Shadowlord trying to obtain the Black Staff? Because he thinks it will give him complete mastery over the undead and that >with its powers he'll be able to attain full lichdom. But we know the Black Staff from M3 has no such powers.. So why does the SL think it? Who inspired >him these thoughts? Idris?.. I can only tell you that one day he heard voices in his head speaking of the fabolous powers of a mysterious Black Staff.. power over the dead and the living.. but to reach the Black Staff he >had to open the gates to the Pyts of Banishment.. So he began researching and found out what the Pits were.. and who its inhabitants were.. But he doesn't know anything more about the Black Staff (since the carnifex devised >it during their life inside the Pits..). So who told (lied to) him? Idris (who's presumably already been using him for a long time)? But is Idris that >powerful to know about the carnifex's plans and magics? >I leave you with these thoughts.. >DM Excellent. I like a bit of deviousness and Plot Twist... Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 15:21:08 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Horizon calculation >>Would I see the Black Peak Mountains, 80 miles north? >>I figure they're decent sized mountains, about 4,500 feet (PWA3). >Your calculations were overkill. The simple approximation for how far something a certain height above the terrain can be seen is >visibility in miles = square root (3/2*height in feet) >The mountains 4,500 feet tall can appear as far away as 82.16 miles, but only from the barest reflections of light glinting off the snowy peaks. And smaller hills much closer to Specularum would block the >image anyway. >But that ASSUMES you would be standing at sea-level instead of from some >high vantage-point of your own. Why would you do that? You can see the peaks fine from the 500-foot tower built by the Black Peaks Appreciation Society, Specularum Chapter. lol. Hate to throw this in, but Mystara is roughly 50% the size of the Earth. So the distance to the horizon would be considerably shorter than on Earth. Hey Pierre!!!! Try factoring in Mystaras diameter of 6190 miles into a few equations... >Science rules! I'm still thinking of some way to make a Doomsday Device >that shakes the very foundations of the Known World from one of those cutesy >demoes the kids do on the science-shows. BBargle says, "Pay me 50,000,000 gold-pieces, or I drop this sodium bicarbonate asteroid into the Sea of Dawn!" lol. That reminds me of the time our chemistry teacher threw a block of sodium into the school swimming pool. Is it just England or are all chemistry teachers insane? Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 10:22:52 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Just what can a 12th level mage do to a Thyatian Legion? A lo In a message dated 98-05-29 18:51:32 EDT, SteelAngel writes: <> I am glad someone brought this up. I had taken notice of this perception and decided to test the waters with my Randel Gaz. But since it was addressed, the die is cast. I assume you got the Alphatian war machine stats from the first two PWAs. It should be noted that these numbers and troop organizations are post Wrath and represent the current stats for Alphatia in HollowWorld. Even the population numbers are weakened. The kingdom armies are listed as reserve divisions. And at least one regiment is composed of normal people (0-level). To further my cause, I'd suggest using a bit of math to compare the peacetime standing armies to the kingdom populations. Even with their populations weakened, the percentage compared to the listed division offers quite a discrepancy. For example look at Randel. One reserve division falling along the same lines of the other kingdoms. Not to good for a kingdom known for its militeristic nature. Especially when hated Bettellyn has three such divisions. Needless to say, the preWrath Randel Army is quite different from that displayed in the PWAs. And that is something I have dealt with in my Randel Gaz. IMO these reserve divisions are the "home guard" while the real warriors are off at war. After the sinking, the populace was called upon to bolster the forces, hence the normal men and women in the ranks. Read the descriptions carefully and you'll see what I mean. These proffessional soldiers are in my opinion still topside. Some of their numbers have been reduced due to battle fatalities during the war. 10-20% sounds right to me for the armies. Naval units are harder hit. Aerial Fleets really hard hit mostly to fire. Now another note- The Thyatian Divisions are listed as Cohorts and organized differently in PWAs. However in the DDA series (Legions of Thyatis), the composition is filled with more variety such as supplimentary units and they are tagged as legions. I like the term legions better. I could go into detail about RW legions, but won't. Instead, I'll suggest that the different name and organization seen in PWAs is a sign of reorganization due to combat losses during the war. Call it a simplification. The Divisions are called Cohorts to emphasize the fighter aspect instead of the multimedia fighting aspect of a Legion. This simplification also denotes the expected losses of "special troop types" such as the attached cavalry and foresters of the legion. Due to the training time, these troop types would be the most hard pressed to replace during a war. So what do ya think? Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 10:25:57 -0400 From: Daly Subject: [MYSTARA] - Petition letter--failed addresses <9003307@unet.univie.ac.at> The above addresses have problems and will be deleted from the petition unless the problem can be resolved today. If you sent me your name, city and country, that info will remain on the petition. Thanks! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 15:22:53 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Just what can a 12th level mage do to a Thyatian Legion? A lot! >Read Dawn of the Emperors; the 1000 super-mages of Alphatia don't get involved with wars and such because they simply can't be bothered. This one >over here's experimenting with cross-breeding, this one's concerned with setting proper fashion styles in her dominion, this one's redecorating the entire region with silver grass... >They're not warlords, their mad scientists with magic. They're all working on their own pet projects, and 'let someone else handle it' is their favorite expression. IF they ever decided to actually work together (difficult to do when so many of them are flaming Chaotics), they could cause large amounts of damage and upheaval all over Mystara. But they won't. >Picture a thousand university professors, physicists, and engineers, all totally devoted to their work. They couldn't take over a kitchen cabinet, let alone the whole world. LOL. Cool! I havnt got DotE, sadly, so I dont really know what makes Alphatia tick. But thats very cool... An entire kingdom of mad scientists... Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 11:02:19 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Just what can a 12th level mage do to a Thyatian Legion? A lo In a message dated 98-05-30 10:35:24 EDT, rmunch@easynet.co.uk writes: [cool it does work] << LOL. Cool! I havnt got DotE, sadly, so I dont really know what makes Alphatia tick. But thats very cool... An entire kingdom of mad scientists... >> Not only mad scientists...that is what all mages are if ya think about it....but in Alphatia these mages are the ruling class. So their "madness" is able to proceed without any supervision (except from other mages). IMO unless some event directly affects the individual mages all 1000+ (remember the council is composed of the 1000 top 36th level mages). Alphatia's expansionism has been accomplished at the cost of the serviant class, the commoners. The Council actually rarely is involved in conquest. If they had, then "victory disease" would take over and all of Mystara would be speaking Alphatian. If ya think about it, the wizards have actually been detrimental to Alphatian expansionism. Thier vices aided the Thyatian revolt. Zabdors call to have them Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 15:30:19 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #367 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 26216193a932b66cc0def24ce899ec31 bombard Glantri City essentially sank Alphatia. You could also chalk up the magist attitudes as alienating the commoners of conquered and neighboring lands. So maybe it is not too bad that the big boy mages contribute only marginally to the Alphatian War Machine. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 08:53:26 PDT From: "Spencer Graham" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Just what can a 12th level mage do to a Thyatian Legion? A lot! >From: "Rob" >To: >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Just what can a 12th level mage do to a Thyatian Legion? A lot! >Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 00:18:25 +0100 >Reply-To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM >>>Conservative estimate - 10 20th level (AD+D) mages, working together, at >any >>>one time? Goodbye, Thyatian legion. >>Nah. We're talking about the 1000 36th level wizards. >>But then again, you have to remember that most of the high level mages in >>Alphatia could give a dead pegataur about the military. Look at the Alphatian War machine. Pretty average numbers there. >Yeah I know. Hence the conservative 10 out of 1000. Its only 1%! >>IMC I would NEVER allow a single 36th level mage to decimate an army. Its >>not even CLOSE to realistic. >Neither would I. But they can! So I dont have any 36th level mages IMC... >At least, not 1000 of them. >>>ROB (give me a 20th level mage, and I will move the world...) >>In which case, why haven't the thousand wizards of Alphatia dominated Mystara? >I dont know! They should have done! You tell me! Are they holding back or >something? It puzzled me in WotI why the Alphatians werent in Thyatis in a >week... After all - they could have, going by the spells they can cast. >>And also on that note, why are the pithy fighters of Heldann doing so well, if mages are so godlike? >Plot twist. Thats what I dont like. If you ran that as an adventure, the >mages would win every time. Writing it as part of a timeline tho is different. The full power of the mage (some would say cheesiness...) isnt >being fully used. >Hey, Im with you here. I DONT like it! Its just that this is what high >level mages ARE capable of. So I dont have them! IIf anyone wants to tell me any defences an army out of the PWA might >have against high level magics, believe me, I am most eager to find out. I >certainly havnt been able to think of any... >Cheerz >ROB I suppose the best defense against a high-level mage is a good hit team with a good mix of combat and magic skills....(The AD&D equivilant of a Covert Ops Hunter-Killer squad) best used when our friend the Mage is sleeping....good research is essential so as to eliminate any clones and anticipate any contingency spells. Teleporting or gating a couple of dozen eye tyrants to his sleeping quarters might help as well....On the more serious note tho, I do place some fairly stiff restrictions on spell-casting IMC.....one, Dex bounus to AC and saving throws does not apply while casting a spell. Movement in the same round as casting a spell is not allowed (except a one square adjustment and facing changes) any damage recieved while casting a spell aborts it and removes it from memory. Not letting the Mage know exactly how long his fly spell is gonna last, limiting his speed to 3" a round while spellcasting with an active fly spell. Limiting Contingency to a strict interpretation of the spell (i.e. not letting a character get the benefits of chain contingency from the contingency spell) Limiting the character to only one active contingency spell at a time. Not allowing spells to be cast while mounted. Since the class *is* as potent as it is you have to make the Mage work for everything he gets. You can also limit the mage by restricting availability of spells that can be found or purchased. Make them *research* all the really nifty spells and all the attendant expenses can limit thier power. If an enemy Mage goes down in his lair, and there is the possibility that the fight damaged/destroyed his spell books and research material, trash it. No free lunch. A beaker of acid being tipped over on valuable books should make every mage cring. I'm not proposing that *every* opportunity to gain a spell should be hamstrung, but my players are grateful for *every* scroll they find intact. Of course in the current campaign, other magic items are hard to come by as well. We are using a modified version of the Dark Sun tree system (my campaigns are known for thier mortality rate, this allows for quick replacement of characters with minimal game disruption) and among 40+ characters of an average level of 6, the most powerful weapon in the group is a +2 Scimitar of Speed, there are about 15 permanent items scattered through the group. We have been running this game now for about 2 years. (Sorry for the digression)Well, I've rambled too much, and wife wants phone, talk to yah later..... Spencer ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 13:43:46 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: your mail On Fri, 29 May 1998, Daly wrote: >you know what? I think D&D was scrapped around that time and to bring in those new players they decided to go with new AD&D boxed sets that would take the place of the gazetteers. There was a couple year span between the Atruagin Clans Gaz and the last D&D boxed set "Champions of Mystara". So D&D didn't die immediately. Still i'd love to see those gaz's reach print in the old format. Even if they were AD&D-based :) Max IV - Wishing again. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 14:01:41 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Just what can a 12th level mage do to a Thyatian Legion? A lot! On Sat, 30 May 1998, Rob wrote: >something? It puzzled me in WotI why the Alphatians werent in Thyatis in a week... After all - they could have, going by the spells they can cast. I don't know either. And if what you say is true about 20th level mages, why is it, when the 1000 wizards teleprted to the skies of Glantri City, they didn't decimate the entire continent of Brun? I have a solution. Mages don't do that "shrink and cast death spells thing" Its not even remotely honorable by any but the most evil mages' standards. Think about it, if Demetrion Kagenteropolis (a 36th lev Thyatian Grand Magus) was as sneaky as you say, why hasn't Thyatis dominated The hinterlands of Davania, or Why hasn't Thyatis Blown up Heldann? Because Demetrion isn't the kind of mage that would do what you propose. He's too lazy to even make magic items with greater than +2 bonuses. Also, remember, magic casting isn't some easy game. IMC, a wish takes a few hours to set up and cast (hardly battle magic!) Mages, IMO are too haughty and proud to go in and decimate an army like that, even if they could (D&D mages don't have stoneskin, or that shrink spell anyway!) Plus most couldn't be bothered to. The mages in the Alphatian army are mostly younger, less powerful wizards. The elder ones are holed up in their towers doing their arcane experiments. Maybe they can decimate an army, but unless its in their Foyer, why should they waste their time? Another oversight on your part is that the Tyatian Army would be stupid enough to not have magical defenses around the camp. But I agree. High level magics, when used en masse are rather cheesy. >If anyone wants to tell me any defences an army out of the PWA might have against high level magics, believe me, I am most eager to find out. I certainly havnt been able to think of any... Well, i put together a fully magical army a few years back, using the war machine. This included high level mages, Clerics, Magical machines (From the Book Of Wonderous Inventions) Dragons, and a few other goodies. What was the BR? 5,732 Now that's power. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 14:09:03 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format On Fri, 29 May 1998, Derek Harmon wrote: >and there is a lot of references in Mystara to wierd stuff. Gnomish fighter pilots (I virtually barfed when I saw Top Ballista) and floating Mystara has the most tongue in cheek fantasy of any campaign in any game system. Sometimes you have to live with it. Plus, on a positive note for "Top Ballista" how many other libraries have a druj librarian? Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 11:48:45 PDT From: "Spencer Graham" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - THE PETITION GROWS! consider me signed on......Spencer G Graham 20300 Cole Lane Hensley, AR 72065 >Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 10:04:29 -0400 >To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM >From: Daly >Subject: [MYSTARA] - THE PETITION GROWS! Reply-To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM >We have over 60 signatures now!!!! >This may not seem like much when talking about an overall economic picture...but just consider that these are all people who have access to >either the MML, the MMB, or someone on either of those. >The 63 of us definitely represent more than our mere numbers! >Last chance btw, sign on today! >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 15:11:53 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tanegioth Archipelago: many many problems.. (LONG) In a message dated 98-05-27 15:29:59 EDT, eand@WPI.EDU writes: >Another against: Kopru live underwater. Anyone have PC3 to look through? I hhave it at home somewhere, but I can't remember the details on Kopru physiology. I also think that Kopru physically different than Illithids too. That is the biggest difference -- Illithids do not become intelligent beings until they are implanted in a land dwelling size M creature, at which point they become intelligent land-dwelling brain-eaters. Kopru, if they are related to Illitihids at all, somehow manage to achieve intelligence without eating brains or leaving the water. My guess is that if the two species are at all related, the relationship is a very distant one. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 15:12:02 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf stuff In a message dated 98-05-27 20:23:35 EDT, Inconu@aol.com writes: >are you really sure that there is a NWP for mages that allows them to wear aarmor?? >...just curious....i don't remember ever seeing one..... Not an NWP but a class option on which the Mage can spend class CPs. The option is called "Armored wizard", as I recall. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 15:11:58 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf stuff In a message dated 98-05-27 17:10:40 EDT, vanquer@softhome.net writes: >I have seen this brought up often as myth, but never seen any recorded fact of such a thing. Plate mail is only about 12# heavier than chain, and many modern combatants state that it is less constraining and more comfortable than chain. >It's hard to imagine a trained knight (mostly the only ones who wore plate) having trouble getting up with only about 55# of extra weight on. Plate mail is actually among the least bulky of armors, assuming that it is well articulated (no excessive stiffness in the joints) and that the weight is well distributed (usually the case). With chain mail the weight is nearly all on the shoulders, while modern infantrymen carry a comparable amount of weight in their backpacks. Now in the late middle ages or early Renaissance there may well have been some specialized jousting armor developed that was indeed too bulky for easy movement -- but such armor would have been worn only in jousts, not in real battles. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 15:12:00 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf stuff In a message dated 98-05-27 20:22:32 EDT, Inconu@aol.com writes: >In the RC, it states that plate mail weighs 50lbs. I agree that it is possible to rise to your feet with this added weight, although it would be mighty >difficult. However in Suit Armor, it is 75lbs. Now this is a large amount of >weight to be holding you down. In medieval times, if a combattent was lodged >off his horse and fell on his back, he was almost certain to die. The agressor need only slice the helpless target's throat. I think you may have highlighted an important distinction there -- a man in heavy armor who is unhorsed is not helpless and can get back on his feet in a fairly short time if he is not hindered by his foes. But of course any foe will very quickly sit on him and then cut his throat -- that additional 150 pounds or so on his chest in combination with the weight of the armor would be sufficient to leave him helpless. The key question would seem to be whether he is able to get up before his foe gets to him -- and in this case mere seconds could be critical. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 20:33:12 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format >>and there is a lot of references in Mystara to wierd stuff. Gnomish fighter pilots (I virtually barfed when I saw Top Ballista) and floating >Mystara has the most tongue in cheek fantasy of any campaign in any game system. Sometimes you have to live with it. Plus, on a positive note for "Top Ballista" how many other libraries have a druj librarian? Top Ballista is kewl... I had the Red Steel party (with notables like Billy the Kid and Albion StJohn Smythe) meet Lt Cmdr Algy Biggleswade, gnomish ace... Very tongue in cheek, but its fun. Besides, it was funny when Smythe then wore a parachute at all times - just in case... Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #367 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Sunday, May 31 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 368 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: your mail Re: [MYSTARA] - Some words on Hule Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: your mail Re: [MYSTARA] - Seafaring Dwarves (was Rakasta & Lupins) Re: [MYSTARA] - Ghouls [MYSTARA] - Thyatis, armies, and the Alphatian grand council Re: [MYSTARA] - Seafaring Dwarves Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format Re: [MYSTARA] - Foresters Re: [MYSTARA] - Horizon calculation Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Television stuff for Mystara??? Re: [MYSTARA] - Foresters Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Alamanc in Mystara [MYSTARA] - Re: Novels (was: MystaraRising! Please read and re... Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri [MYSTARA] - Re: Almanac Re: [MYSTARA] - Nothings Changed Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Nothing's changed [and some thoughts on Thyatis] Re: [MYSTARA] - Horizon calculation Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Novels (was: MystaraRising! Please read and re... Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Novels (was: MystaraRising! Please read and re... Re: [MYSTARA] - Novels Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Just what can a 12th level mage do to a Thyatian Legion? A Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 16:05:36 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: your mail >On Fri, 29 May 1998, Daly wrote: >>you know what? I think D&D was scrapped around that time and to bring in those new players they decided to go with new AD&D boxed sets that would take the place of the gazetteers. StellAngel wrote: >Still i'd love to see those gaz's reach print in the old format. Even if they were AD&D-based :) I think so too! Wouldn't it be neat if they were even to make the work that they completed available to us? Not that they would, but haven't you ever wondered what sort of half-finished work TSR had on its shelves before the plug was pulled? Think about it: Maybe there were fragmentary notes on the elusive DA5 (City of Blackmoor), or even the Islandia Campaign, which never saw the light of day, either. Even if they only had a 2 page summary of what it was going to be about, it would be neat to see it if it existed. The same goes for the vapourware Heldann, Hule, and Wendar Gazetteers. The ultimate dream (if we're being fanciful) is either Mystara comes back and WotC/TSR publishes the three "lost Gazetteers", or gives whatever fragmentary notes that might exist to us to share. Please note that this is a fanciful dream - I do not ever expect anything like this to happen. Just sharing some thoughts, Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 16:18:45 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Some words on Hule Jennifer Favia wrote: >7.) Nomenclature. The Byzantine Empire was a continuation of the Roman Empire which--converted to Christianity and using Greek as its principal language but Latin for most of its nomenclature --wasn't fully conquered by the Ottomans until 1453. So we're looking for Thyatian- or Traldar-style names here how's "Hosadus"? (compare to Heraclius, Photius, Comnenus, Pontus all BYZANTINE names, not Roman. Furthermore, what of the name "Bozdogan"? He is, after all, a Hulean version of "Loki." Because of the consonants, my first thought was perhaps Assyria or Babylonia, but that didn't quite pan out (see some thoughts on them, below). Then guess what? I found out that the first people to unify Anatolia (ancient Asiatic Turkey) were the Hittites, an Indo-European confederation that subdued the kingdoms of the central plateau about 1750 BCE. Their capital was called BOGAZKOY (Hattusa). Well, that convinced me. (This also fits with the almost-but-not-quite Central European feel of many of the town names). Jamuga Khan's friend wrote: >Ad 7: In the eastern part of the Roman Empire Greece always was the common and administration language (compare to Canada). The last latine sources from the eastern part are from 7th century. The Latin names Heraclius ( greek: Herakles), Photius (greek: Phontios), Pontus (greek: Pontos) can be found in Latin textes from 3 th century BC. BTW, names on "-us" are Latin, names on "-os" are Greece. Jamuga, do you think you can ask your friend what he means when he uses the comparison to Canada? Myself, I'm not sure what is meant here. I've never heard of Canada being compared to Byzantium before (maybe the Austro-Hungarian empire once or twice). I'm just curious, that's all. Geoff, who is curious - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 17:32:58 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: your mail At 04:05 PM 5/30/98 -0400, Geoff Gander wrote: TThe ultimate dream (if we're being fanciful) is either Mystara comes back and WotC/TSR publishes the three "lost Gazetteers", or gives whatever fragmentary notes that might exist to us to share. Please note that this is a fanciful dream - I do not ever expect anything like this to happen. Geoff, I think you should put this message on the SaveMystara forum post haste! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 00:20:31 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Seafaring Dwarves (was Rakasta & Lupins) On Fri, 22 May 1998, Kaviyd wrote: >In a message dated 98-05-19 09:27:15 EDT, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no writes: >>Or a culture of seafaring Dwarves..... >I don't recall any specifically Dwarven cultures of seafarers, but I do recall them being part of various seafaring cultures -- Minrothad and the Savage Baronies are the most obvious examples that come to mind. Actually, I just mentioned it as an example of something unstereotypical. strangely enough Mystara seems to have it. The Dwarves of Ierendi. However: >But that image of Dwarven sailors has inspired me -- maybe somewhere on Mystara there are floating islands inhabited solely by Dwarves who spend their entire lives at sea and would feel very out of place if they were ever out of sight of the ocean.... This sounds like a very good idea. Could it be an experiment by Kagyar and Calitha Starbrow working together? Or is Protius involved. Seen waterworld right? Ignore the silly stuff and replace it with Dwarven sollutions. Need fresh water in the middle of the ocean? You dont have to drink your own urine silly human, just remove the salt. :) Dwarves are a bit more practical than the guys at Hollywood... Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 00:33:35 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ghouls >On Tue, 26 May 1998, Mystaros wrote: >>I myself have always considered Ghouls and Ghasts to be a special sort of "undead", not truly undead in the same manner as skeletons or zombies or even vampires, but in a manner that simply links them to the powers of Entropy in such a way that they are a "Quasi-" or "Pseudo-" Undead (not quite like the AD&D version of Pseudo-undead). >>Any thoughts? Looking at GURPS Fantasy folk i found that the ghouls described there are not undead. However they feed on human brains. Some feed on Orc brains, but they become degenerate...Degenerate Ghouls think about it. How degenerate can you get? Just thought I'd mention it.. Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 16:06:07 PDT From: "Buck Satan" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis, armies, and the Alphatian grand council Well, all this talk about armies and mages really caught my attention. I agree that the Alphatian grand council is more of a ruling body, and definately not a military asset. If they were, all of Mystara would definately be in danger (Thyatis has a bit more than 250 top level mages, 250 live on Sclaras, Glantri has few, if any, and most other countries could probably only gather a handful). Another point I'd like to make, is that I believe that the Thyatian war machine has really been junked on. In the WotI, it's stated that is was Valerias's actions that led to the decline in the military. Look at the difference of the BR from the PWA for Thyatis (98) to the one in the Legions of Thyatis (pre-wrath - 111 and 121). I think it's about time Thyatis recovered it's military power, as Erianda reorganized the Alphatian military in 1 year, and look at the BR, 145! Just hope this doesn't start another Thyatis-Alphatia fight! :) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 18:52:23 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Seafaring Dwarves Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: >Actually, I just mentioned it as an example of something unstereotypical. strangely enough Mystara seems to have it. The Dwarves of Ierendi. Ierendi isn't the only place seafaring dwarves may come from. If you look at the area where Alphatia used to reside, I think there are some mountain ranges that still reside above water where dwarves live. The catastrophe may have caused them to become mariners. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 20:12:40 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals In a message dated 98-05-28 02:09:52 EDT, derek@ix.netcom.com writes: >How does PHBR3 treat all spell spheres as equal? Just look at the rules for designing your own priesthoods -- depending on their relative combat abilities, each priest gets a certain number of spheres for major and minor access. Each sphere effectively has the same value for this purpose. Contrast this with the approach used in the Player's Option books -- there access to each sphere is given its own point value, thereby reflecting the fact that the various spell spheres are not in fact equal. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 20:13:18 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format In a message dated 98-05-28 13:43:08 EDT, eand@WPI.EDU writes: >Well, actually, no. But then again, D&D is "Class" based, and not "race" bbased. >in AD&D you are a human, orc, elf, or whatever. Then you choose a class. In D&D you are a Magic user, cleric, etc. and your race is predetermined. In the basic rules, that is true, but in various gazetteers, Dragon articles, and other supplements, many options were added. To name a few: - -- Most monsters can remain basic monsters (fighters) or become shamans (priests) or wokani (wizards); a few can become both, making them effectively fighter/wizard/priests. That gives 3-4 class options for most "monster" races, along with the flexibility of choosing just when in their careers they develop their magical powers. - -- The racial gazetteers for Dwarves and Halflings provide a priest option for each race - -- While "standard" Elves progress equally as fighters and mages up to level 10 and then as fighters only after that, there are options that allow them to begin play solely as fighters or to progress as mages beyond level 10. There is also an "Elf Cleric" option. - -- Kubitts, Lupins, Rakasta, and Half-Elves all have the same class choices as humans. If all of the preceding options are considered, the most noticeable remaining difference between D&D and AD&D is that D&D seriously limits non-human Thieves. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 20:13:04 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Foresters There is one additional complication for Foresters -- in the Hollow World, several cultures that seem to have no contact at all with Elves have that class among them. Maybe _Dawn of the Emperors_ was a bit more restrictive than it had to be? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 20:13:34 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Horizon calculation In a message dated 98-05-30 10:28:01 EDT, rmunch@easynet.co.uk writes: >lol. That reminds me of the time our chemistry teacher threw a block of ssodium into the school swimming pool. Is it just England or are all chemistry teachers insane? That depends. Was anyone in the pool when the teacher did it? I could definitely picture some American chemistry teachers doing something like that if they were sure nobody was in the pool or would be using it at all for the next few hours. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 20:13:22 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals In a message dated 98-05-28 15:24:43 EDT, derek@ix.netcom.com writes: >Exactly my point. King Stefan (I almost said Duke there..) will make the Church of Traladara the new state religion! 3:)> That would probably not be a wise move -- it would be the signal for the Church of Karameikos to start all sorts of trouble. It would make more sense for him to encourage the two Churches to work together while hoping that those "Cult of Halav" nuts go away. Since there is little reason to believe that either the Church of Karameikos or the Church of Traladara will shrivel away or join the other voluntarily, the thing to do is reduce the importance of religious affiliation in Karameikos -- and I think he has already had some degree of success in that area. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 20:13:38 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 01:03:26 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #368 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 8008ebf014e2ca5b9292a35a4cb3081b Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Television stuff for Mystara??? In a message dated 98-05-29 16:30:18 EDT, mktriton@hotmail.com writes: >Trust me, someone will figure out the Baywatch idea. No problem -- Ierendi is the place for that one. Surely it is long past time to replace Mr. Coarke and his neighbor Magnus with more up to date TV references? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 20:12:59 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Foresters In a message dated 98-05-29 02:31:43 EDT, frankpul@stlnet.com writes: >Anyway, what it boils down to, at least in 1st edition terms, are Foresters mmulticlass or dual class? (Multi-class would be my opinion, as humans can multi-class in some AD&D settings - Lankhmar for instance). They are unquestionably multi-classed -- they advance in both classes at once and never have to "switch" from one to the other. The only thing that limits them is that they are held to Elven level limits -- which would not be the case for their AD&D counterparts if any existed. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 20:13:19 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format In a message dated 98-05-28 13:43:08 EDT, eand@WPI.EDU writes: >>Literacy is also taken for granted in D&D >This really was a side effect of the "Known World" Campaigns. Even Karameikos, the most "fantasy-attuned" land has a respectable literacy rate of ~90%. Or more likely a side effect of the D&D game rules, in which anyone with an intelligence of 6+ can read and write at least a little. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 20:13:13 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri In a message dated 98-05-28 20:41:11 EDT, rmunch@easynet.co.uk writes: >Harald actually is a candidate, IMHO, just for being neutral. Assuming he wwould accept the position, and assuming the other princes would allow him to >gain a virtual monopoly on the Council of Princes. But since he is already Grandmaster of the Great School of Magic, making him Supreme Judge would actually be a demotion. And while Harald may not be ambitious, it is obvious which job is better suited for his temperament. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 20:13:21 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alamanc in Mystara In a message dated 98-05-28 14:31:54 EDT, eand@WPI.EDU writes: >Ah, but if you let the PC's buy a copy, remember to remove the sections ddealing with the events of the upcoming year. That's a campaign spoiler. Or just delay its availability until about halfway through the following year. Thus the AC 1010 almanac would be published in the summer of AC 1011, and the latest almanac would be published in the summer of AC 1016 -- by which point most of the events in the almanac should have leaked out to the players by other means. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 20:13:24 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Novels (was: MystaraRising! Please read and re... In a message dated 98-05-28 16:17:04 EDT, tmahaney@oit.umass.edu writes: >Perhaps we could pique interest for reviving Mystara by first convincing WWotC to put out some more Novels. Good novels seemed to be a good vehicle for creating interest in some of the other AD&D campaign worlds. Although strong sales of novels does not necessarily guarantee strong gaming sales (e.g. Dragonlance), it might be a first step. Okay, here is an obvious idea for that novel -- the adventures of Haldemar and the Princess Ark during the post-Almanac time period (AC 1013-?). The trick would be to come up with the right blend of old and new material -- but I am sure that Bruce Heard (the only person I would even consider having write this book) would be up to it if he accepted the task. My suggestion to TSR/ WotC -- make him any reasonable offer to do it! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 17:41:21 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri On Fri, 29 May 1998, DM wrote: >What about the leader of the House of Sylaire? IIRC Isidore doesn't hold any high positions.. Maybe she could be next Judge.. (support from Malachie and probably Harald, and i'd throw in Jaggar too if she agreed to help him mantaining his title..) She's Chamberlain of the Land. Not that that would prevent her from forgogin her charge and running fot the position, but we'd have to find a new Chamberlain. And I think she'd like to keep the position she's got, as it can help her make life easier for lycanthropes in Glantri. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 21:46:53 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri In a message dated 98-05-29 02:22:12 EDT, ANDREW.THEISEN@ASU.Edu writes: >Kol is Viceroy of the Great Crater, and Dolores is Treasurer. Thye'd have to ggive up their positions, and probably wouldn't get any votes. Dolores would, but Kol wouldn't -- Viceroy positions do not exclude greater charges. But you are right that Kol would not get very many votes -- certainly not enough to be eleceted to the position. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 21:46:55 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Almanac In a message dated 98-05-29 16:23:36 EDT, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no writes: >Ofcourse! That conflict could get interesting. Personally I would like to ssee the Ethengarians moved elsewhere. I like them, but I dont like them in the middle of the civilized world, if you take my meaning. It would be great to have them go west or something and regain their position there... All IMO ofcourse. Here is a sinister idea -- the Heldanners and the Glantrians gang up on the Ethengarians and drive them into the Wendarian mountains, from which they flee westward into the Adhri Varma plateau. There they live secretly for several decades until they have expanded in all directions - -- eventually they grow strong enough that they conquer Hule (which puts up surprisingly little resistance because by this time the Master has become the Great Khan). Then they invade Glantri from the west -- and Glantri is in big trouble because the terrain provides Glantri with no defense whatsoever. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 21:46:57 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Nothings Changed In a message dated 98-05-29 17:22:48 EDT, rmunch@easynet.co.uk writes: >Now compare it to the real world. Borders dont often change, as a rule - ccountries are occupied, but only rarely do the borders undergo major change. >The borders of England have been more or less unchanged since the Roman Empire. All the other European countries have all bee around a long time, more or less unchanged. Not dissimilar to the Mystaran version of Europe - the Known World. You haven't looked at many historical maps, have you? The only reason that England's borders have been stable is that they are geographically well defined. Poland's borders, on the other hand, have been anything but stable -- and there were a few times when that nation did not exist. Most European nations have been somewhere in between. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 21:47:00 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Nothing's changed [and some thoughts on Thyatis] In a message dated 98-05-30 00:21:30 EDT, ac2@rocketmail.com writes: >And of course Thyatis has always wanted Ylaruam as mmuch as it has Karameikos (don't know why. Does someone else know?). The Thyatian army will likely slowly but surely move north. Self-defense. If left unchecked they could start gobbling up some of the northern parts of Thyatis -- which is exactly what Ylaruam did do in WotI. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 21:47:01 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Horizon calculation In a message dated 98-05-30 10:00:36 EDT, jdaly@friend.ly.net writes: >Can you tell me this...what is normal sight range for a human on a clear dday? Just a single figure...forget terrain and weather is not a problem. A lot depends on conditions -- I do know that at night a human with 20/20 vision can see about a million light years (the distance to the Andromeda galaxy, the most distant object visible to the naked eye). As for daylight, earthbound observations, a lot depends on just where you are. From the top of a high mountain on a clear day, you can see a LOT. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 18:49:25 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Novels (was: MystaraRising! Please read and re... >would be to come up with the right blend of old and new material -- but I am >sure that Bruce Heard (the only person I would even consider having write this book) would be up to it if he accepted the task. My suggestion to TSR/ >WotC -- make him any reasonable offer to do it! Just a note for anyone who doesn't know- Bruce Heard no longer works for TSR. Jesse. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 22:36:48 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri One question -- do any of the net-Almanacs take account of the return of Etienne in _Mark of Amber_? If so, then Isidore would have had to give up her position as Chamberlain to somebody else, and Etienne would be available as a nominee for any other charges (such as Supreme Judge) that became available. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 22:47:08 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Novels (was: MystaraRising! Please read and re... In a message dated 98-05-30 22:01:39 EDT, vanquer@softhome.net writes: >Just a note for anyone who doesn't know- Bruce Heard no longer works for TTSR. I am well aware of that -- but I am still hoping that they can reach some sort of agreement with him for a freelance assignment. A novel, in particular, would not require him to travel out to Washington state.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 22:18:35 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Novels I've spoke with Bruce before about doing a novel with Haldemar and crew. He would love to but time is his enemy. So, I don't think its an agreement that needs to be worked out so much he needs time in his schedule to devote to it. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 23:28:07 EDT From: BoBoII@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't In a message dated 5/29/98 6:57:42 PM, Galwynn wrote: < Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't BoBoII@aol.com wrote: >Hasn't TSR/WotC officailly made Dragonlance a SAGA produce, from now till the end of time? That's what they say. They're also planning on having more settings use the system. I did ask if Mystara was being considered as one of those settings and was told that only new settings designed specifically for the system would use it. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #368 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 15:06:38 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #369 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: ececfbc9342a179db886e40888344ef3 mystara-digest Sunday, May 31 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 369 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Horizon calculation Re: [MYSTARA] - Horizon calculation Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Just what can a 12th level mage do to a Thyatian Legion? A Re: [MYSTARA] - Horizon calculation Re: [MYSTARA] - Nothings Changed Re: [MYSTARA] - Horizon calculation [MYSTARA] - Small update on my home page. Re: [MYSTARA] - Just what can a 12th level mage do to a Thyatian Legion? A lot! Re: [MYSTARA] - Methods of magic [MYSTARA] - The Mystara Horizon / Fun with chemistry Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Almanac Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri [MYSTARA] - Byzantium and Canada Re: [MYSTARA] - Horizon calculation Re: [MYSTARA] - The Mystara Horizon / Fun with chemistry Re: [MYSTARA] - Just what can a 12th level mage do to a Thyatian Legion? A lot! [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] The Calari Elves Re: [MYSTARA] - Small update on my home page. Re: [MYSTARA] - Just what can a 12th level mage do to a Thyatian Legion? A lot! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 02:04:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Horizon calculation Pierre Savoie pontificated: >It proved that the STAR FRONTIERS ship-acceleration system was messed up, and that space-stations in the game were orbitting planets three times faster than they really would. You meant that hyperspace is possible by just accelerate to 0.01C (which throws relativity out of window) didn't clue you in that Star Frontier's science is not very sound :) >Bargle says, "Pay me 50,000,000 gold-pieces, or I drop this sodium bicarbonate asteroid into the Sea of Dawn!" Huh? I didn't get it. You turn the Sea basic, so? - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 02:10:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Horizon calculation Kaviyd@aol.com pontificated: >That depends. Was anyone in the pool when the teacher did it? I could definitely picture some American chemistry teachers doing something like that if they were sure nobody was in the pool or would be using it at all for the next few hours. Still, it requires draining the whole pool. And IIRC, sodium is not very cheap. I think my chemistry had the better idea by throwing a small chunk into a bucket. - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 05:19:26 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Just what can a 12th level mage do to a Thyatian Legion? A On Sun, 31 May 1998 BoBoII@aol.com wrote: >And yet, fear them. Remember, it was just such a group of professors, physicists and engineers behind the Manhattan Project. But lookk how that turned out. And that also assumes that all those people worked ogether. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 10:28:35 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Horizon calculation >>Bargle says, "Pay me 50,000,000 gold-pieces, or I drop this sodium bicarbonate asteroid into the Sea of Dawn!" >Huh? I didn't get it. You turn the Sea basic, so? Yeah, and release a lot of CO2 and cause a greenhouse effect... What do u think all that fizzing is when u sling bicarb into water? (I think) Sez Rob, who is a chemistry graduate... It really shakes your faith in the English university system, doesnt it... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 10:25:16 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Nothings Changed >>Now compare it to the real world. Borders dont often change, as a rule - cccountries are occupied, but only rarely do the borders undergo major cchange. >>The borders of England have been more or less unchanged since the Roman Empire. All the other European countries have all bee around a long time, >>more or less unchanged. Not dissimilar to the Mystaran version of Europe - >>the Known World. >You haven't looked at many historical maps, have you? The only reason that England's borders have been stable is that they are geographically well defined. Poland's borders, on the other hand, have been anything but stable -- and there were a few times when that nation did not exist. Most European nations have been somewhere in between. True - but then most of the Mystaran nations borders are geographically well defined. Ethengar is pretty solidly defined I think! Karameikos is ringed by mountains, except to the east where u have a forest swarming with goblins and holding a Green Dragon. Thyatis - ditto. Ylaraum is a desert, surrounded by mountains. Rockhome is a chunk of mountain... Some nations like Darokin are fairly loose. But the borders on the map of Darokin are far from the actual reality. Most of the Borderlands is just wilderness - effectively disputed territory with wilderness baddies. Looking at the Savage Coast, the Savage Baronies have certainly had a lot of upheaval, although as far as I can tell the other Red Steel nations have been relatively static for the last 1000 years... Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 10:29:49 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Horizon calculation >>That depends. Was anyone in the pool when the teacher did it? I could definitely picture some American chemistry teachers doing something like that if they were sure nobody was in the pool or would be using it at all for the next few hours. >Still, it requires draining the whole pool. And IIRC, sodium is not very cheap. I think my chemistry had the better idea by throwing a small chunk into a bucket. Ahh - but the chemistry teacher in question was the Deputy Head - and they can get away with anything. (it cracked the tiles of the swimming pool as well...) Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 11:38:07 +0200 From: Ezio Pignatelli Subject: [MYSTARA] - Small update on my home page. There is now a new link on my dnd home page, at http://leda.pd.astro.it/~epignat/dnd/ showing what can be done to "Save Mystara". I just copied the text of the petition, some basic internet addresses, and the Mystaran Writers' Project guidelines. Nothing new, as you can say, but better having it in one place more. All the real authors are adequately quoted and recognized, but if they don't like the thing to be on my page, I'll remove it. Well, I was just bored. :) Better take out my rollerblades.... see you tonight. :))))))))))))))))))))))))) - -- Ezio Pignatelli - Dipartimento di Astronomia - Padova Tel: +39-49-8293459 - Fax: +39-49-8759840 mailto:epignat@leda.pd.astro.it http://leda.pd.astro.it/ - -- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 21:28:28 +1000 From: Anakin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Just what can a 12th level mage do to a Thyatian Legion? A lot! Spencer Graham wrote: >>In which case, why haven't the thousand wizards of Alphatia dominated MMMMystara? A simple glance at history and practical facts may just show why. First yes 1000 36th level wizards working in concert could quite easily dominate a large portion of the world, however..... While the council of the Alphatian empire was made up of such a number of very powerful wizards they did not all tust each other enough to allow them to work together effectively. There was a lot of infighting and plotting I beilieve. Also like the romans and other powerful cultures throughout history once a large portion of the pie has been taken your culture becomes complacent and arrogant, ever heard of zzonga.... as well as all this they still have to keep in check a large number of nonmagical civilians, they are all pwerful but even the council can not be everywhere at once. And you certainly do not send your rulers into battle just because they may have some extra chance, this would only be a final resort. Also how many of the 1000 are really interested in wasting there time in wiping out large numbers of mundanes with flashy spells when they could be walking the planes or whatever powerful wizards do Anakin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 09:46:06 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Methods of magic In a message dated 98-05-26 11:13:56 EDT, Jeff Daly writes: << At 09:21 AM 5/26/98 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 98-05-26 07:28:19 EDT, Inconu writes: I have to agree with the original poster in that (in IMO at least) that the elves being a magical race have some special bind with the magical energies that allow spellcasting. Whereas human mages have to work to cast a spell, elves come by it quite naturally. IMO even in using AD&D rules an elf does not >have to use spell components to cast a spell. The same thing with other magical creatures such as dragons. Something I ommitted in the above post. Spell Components are optional even in AD&D. Never really noticed that before and just thought I'd add that. <> Thanks....I have some bizarre theories on magic and they will be very evident in the Randel GAZ. I will espress some of those aspects where they apply in the text below. <> Well IMO Mystara magic comes from Mystara itself. That the planet is hollow offers that it is not your average everyday planet. The Skyshield itself could be the source. Better though would be the simple theory that Mystaran magic is accomplished when a magist taps into the natural energies that are everywhere. Where these energies come from are a mystery even to the average magist. <> Not just a melding of the two, but technology would have been seen as the easiist path. Not everyone can be a mage, but anyone can use technology. Blackmoor mages became rare as those with the intellect were drawn to science instead of arcane arts. So it is reasonable to assume that had Blackmoor continued its path based on technology, magic could have disappeared. <> But one thing that makes up for this flair and theatrics is the Glantrian skill at Rapid Casting or something like that. Overlooked that aspect in my "Glantrian Mages are slower casters than Alphatian Mages" comment. But then I did not have a copy of Glantri GAZ then. << Elves--I see them as using subtle movements and quiet words. One hardly even notices the action until the result happens.>> Yep...I agree creatures such as elves and dragons are magical. It is easily assumable that their magics are second nature to them. <> IMO Alphatians are so familiar with magic that it is almost second nature to them. Their ability to cast is second only to elves. But it should be noted that not all Alphatians are mages. This casualness with magic could also be further cause to mage opinion to commoners. For they can do something with such ease that their countrymen cannot even comprehend. Personally, I hate spell components except for researching spells. However, I do feel that human mages need something to keep them honest as compared to their elven and draconic counterparts. Howabout reqiring spell components only for the initial periods a mage has acquired the spell. As time goes by, the mage does not need the components to tap the energies for that particular spell. Or howabout allowing a wand to substitute for components. Say a mage's newly acquired Fireball spell can be cast by holding a Wand of Fireballs. No adverse effects happening to the wand. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 10:04:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Savoie Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Mystara Horizon / Fun with chemistry >Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 15:21:08 +0100 >From: "Rob" >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Horizon calculation >lol. Hate to throw this in, but Mystara is roughly 50% the size of the Earth. So the distance to the horizon would be considerably shorter than on Earth. Hey Pierre!!!! Try factoring in Mystaras diameter of 6190 miles into a few equations... Oh, you are quite right! The circumference is given on the map as circumference 19,448 miles (2*pi*R). A full equation development draws a right triangle with one side being the distance from the center of the Earth to a sea-level observation-point. The distance between a tall object and this observation-point, the furthest sea-level point able to see the top of the tall object, is a tangent of length r. The remaining side of the triangle, the hypotenuse, is the radius of the planet R *plus* the height of the high object h. ^ 2 means "squared" (R+h) ^ 2 = R ^ 2 + r ^ 2 r = square root ( 2Rh + h ^ 2) = square root (h (2R+h)) But compared to 2R, h for even the tallest mountain peak is insignificant(*), so r = square root (2Rh) Assuming h is in feet, R (Mystara) = 3095.2453 miles = 16 342 895 feet r (feet) = square root (32 685 790 h (feet)) but r (miles) = square root (1.172 441 h) For Earth (R = about 3958 miles), the constant works out to juuust under 1.5 but on Mystara this factor has been reduced considerably. I hope this fulfills all your horizon-musing needs. So, 4,500-foot mountains means they can be seen as far as 72.63 miles. That's surprisingly not much of a difference compared to 82.16 miles I mentioned for Earth, but it means because of the added curvature counteracting the "greater" prominence of a 4,500-foot feature, now those mountains CAN'T be seen in Specularum, at ground-level at least. (*)Note: Do not make this approximation if you want to figure the horizon for flying-ship vantage-points higher than the highest mountains. Even a height of 60 miles adds only 1% to the value under the square-root, which Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 15:06:38 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #369 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: ececfbc9342a179db886e40888344ef3 makes for a 0.5% error in r the visibility. Time-saving approximations is one of the secrets which allow the Illuminati to CONTROL THE WORLD. Of course, sometimes approximations don't work...the Black Death was only supposed to knock out ONE Sicilian crime-lord in Messina who was getting too big for his britches in Oct. 1347. Ooops! Weeeeeeee're sorry... **Coming soon, the calculations for the "horizon" of the Hollow World, which requires calculating sightline distances between any two points separated by a "surface" distance on the concave curvature of the world, and the absorbance equation for how far you can see through a column of air until you can't see anything any more. A similar problem occurs on Larry Niven's Ringworld where the sightlines get so long through air that you can't see the middle-distance, but points further up the Ring can be seen since you are cutting through two segments of 1,000 miles of atmosphere with a lot of empty space in-between. But on Mystara the Hollow World atmosphere goes clear across to the other side of the sphere. I'll figure that one out when hell freezes over... >lol. That reminds me of the time our chemistry teacher threw a block of sodium into the school swimming pool. Is it just England or are all chemistry teachers insane? Both. My chemistry teacher came from England. :-) He did the same demonstration with a small beaker of water. He cut a sliver of sodium, it slipped. Some unthinking student behind the bench just bent over and picked it up. Fortunately it was coated in so much oil that nothing happened. Too bad. I would have liked a REAL demonstration of the Occult Power of Sodium to remove tell-tale fingerprints the hard way... If you want real fun for your dungeon, put what looks like a valuable alabaster statue under a bell-jar. When the characters lift up the jar...glug, glug, glug, the transparent oil leaks out, exposing a white phosphorus statue to the atmosphere, which flames, igniting the oil... (from a discussion of mine in the earliest incarnation of THE FAMILIAR magazine). When your players object to this nasty trap, explain the owner of the dungeon likes the esthetics of delicate things that can't survive in our atmosphere or under real conditions, and you've just wrecked his most prized art-piece from a methane-world or something. I did a whole inorganic lab-course working under a nitrogen manifold making "delicate" stuff like that... - ---Pierre Savoie (ab966@torfree.net) "This is MYSTARA-L. No brainf**t is *too* irrelevant. Even Renaissance shoelace-tying styles may interest *someone*." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 10:10:12 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Almanac In a message dated 98-05-30 21:59:35 EDT, you write: << > Ofcourse! That conflict could get interesting. Personally I would like to ssee the Ethengarians moved elsewhere. I like them, but I dont like them in the middle of the civilized world, if you take my meaning. It would be great to have them go west or something and regain their position there... All IMO ofcourse. Here is a sinister idea -- the Heldanners and the Glantrians gang up on the Ethengarians and drive them into the Wendarian mountains, from which they flee westward into the Adhri Varma plateau. There they live secretly for several decades until they have expanded in all directions -- eventually they grow strong enough that they conquer Hule (which puts up surprisingly little resistance because by this time the Master has become the Great Khan). Then they invade Glantri from the west -- and Glantri is in big trouble because the terrain provides Glantri with no defense whatsoever. >> Sinister yes...but feasible. The Hordes finally gaining infantry support or more appropraiately, the Master's hordes gaining cavalry support, would make them a daunting force. BTW why not have a few Khans take up residence in Wendar itself. Plus with the Ethie gone in the meantime, the Heldanners and Glantrians are bound to move into the steppes. The Knights probably being the more ambitious of the two in regards to colonization. Glantri expansion would be kept in check. And it would be ironic that that counter force would be thier allies during Wrath. This would place Glantri and the Knights as rivals. Clerical Heldan and heretical Glantri make for big bang. Hey wait a second....Ethie from the east and Hule from the west...haven't I heard this somewhere before? Foreshadowing hint or just a random thought? Interesting. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 10:21:01 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri In a message dated 98-05-30 22:51:47 EDT, you write: << One question -- do any of the net-Almanacs take account of the return of Etienne in _Mark of Amber_? If so, then Isidore would have had to give up her position as Chamberlain to somebody else, and Etienne would be available as a nominee for any other charges (such as Supreme Judge) that became available. >> IIRC Etienne was addressed in the first Net Almanac. Something about him saving Malachie's hindquarter from mercs hired by Dolores. But that is a shady aspect that only the DM is allowed to know. I believe it is explained in the "what this means" section. According to that, Etienne is back as a mortal and keepng a low profile while he gets things together. And the "mysterious mage" that shows up as the Ethie charge the city is surely to be Etienne. I'd like to see something solid done up on the return of Etienne. I can see the possible problems with it from the List. If you have him as a mortal, you tick off part of the List. If you bring him back as an Immortal you do the same. Myself, I like the low profile approach of a mortal Etienne. Keeps the setting going and keeps the natives (MML) quiet. :-) Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 11:01:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Savoie Subject: [MYSTARA] - Byzantium and Canada >Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 16:18:45 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Some words on Hule >Jennifer Favia wrote: ... >Jamuga Khan's friend wrote: >>Ad 7: In the eastern part of the Roman Empire Greece always was the common and administration language (compare to Canada). The last latine sources >Jamuga, do you think you can ask your friend what he means when he uses the comparison to Canada? Myself, I'm not sure what is meant here. I've never heard of Canada being compared to Byzantium before (maybe the Austro-Hungarian empire once or twice). I'm just curious, that's all. Yes, I was curious about that too. It was probably an imperfect comparison. The Roman Empire overran a large Eastern area previously under Greek influence, where people even spoke a pidgin Greek called the Koine over a wide area. The habit of using Greek did not disappear, in fact it reappeared in the Byzantine world. There was a beautiful article in a DRAGON issue about a Byzantine city in central Turkey cut out entirely underground, with shafts cut out for ventilation and surface light and so well-concealed that troops standing on the plateau would have no idea that thousands were living under their feet. The wealthier D&D tourists would certainly want to check that place out...the same ones who sprung for Cruise Con in April 1995! Now, what ish was this article in again? In Canada bilingualism is official and the civil-servants must make at least token efforts for it almost anywhere. The French-language CBC television network actually extends from Vancouver B.C. to Port-au-Port, Newfoundland, which is most of the 5,000 kilometers of width of the country. And it's not even the longest French-language TV network in the world any more; TV5 is, where people in France and French Canada see programs in common. So Canada is a much more interpenetrative administrative bureaucracy, as if Greek were used in the Roman Empire in Gaul and Iberia. Would this have happened if the Empire had had much better transportation, trade and communication? - ---Pierre Savoie (ab966@torfree.net) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 14:05:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Horizon calculation Rob pontificated: >>>Bargle says, "Pay me 50,000,000 gold-pieces, or I drop this sodium bicarbonate asteroid into the Sea of Dawn!" >>Huh? I didn't get it. You turn the Sea basic, so? >Yeah, and release a lot of CO2 and cause a greenhouse effect... What do u think all that fizzing is when u sling bicarb into water? True, but any asteroid that will release enough CO2 to increase the greenhouse effect probably will do more damage the traditonal way... And can you imagin what would be like for Bargle to describe greenhouse effect to someone, assuming he knows about it. Bargle: "Yes, my lord, that big rock will fall into the ocean and release alot of air, but a different type of air, the type of air that you normally breath out. With so much more of that type of air, the entire world will warm up slowly, perhaps as much as one degree per year!" Whoever Bargle is talking to: "Guard, throw this mad man out!" - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 14:18:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Mystara Horizon / Fun with chemistry Pierre Savoie pontificated: >Time-saving approximations is one of the secrets which allow the Illuminati to CONTROL THE WORLD. Unit 74, you have revealed too much. MiB have been dispatched to deactivate you. Fnord. >But on Mystara the >Hollow World atmosphere goes clear across to the other side of the sphere. I'll figure that one out when hell freezes over... The atmosphere in the Hollow World is also confined by the skyshield, so the ring world analogy still works. - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 14:32:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Just what can a 12th level mage do to a Thyatian Legion? A lot! Couple more possible reason on why Alphatia's mages doesn't take over the world. 1. There was a discussion a while ago on perhaps the Alphatia's council don't have nearly as many 1000 max level mages. Perhaps at one time but not now. 2. I always thought that the adventuring mage might only be a small percentage of all the mages, who generally increase their power through research. Those "research mages" might have the spell power of a 20th level mage, but hit point and saving throws are not much better than normal man. This should make them very paranoid, and avoid danger whenever possible. So they would lock themself in their tower and go out to kill some soldiers are the last thing they want to do. Beside that is what the army is for... - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 20:55:58 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] The Calari Elves I'm thinking about doing some work on the Calari elves of Radleb forest. I need some help with finding information though. AFAIK the best sources are Gaz1, K:KoM, and B10, all of which I own :) How much has been written about these guys already by you guys? I know there has been a LOT of debates about elves. I remember an elven migration debate about a year ago, but I didnt pay too much attention to it at the time. Could someone help me finding references to the Calari on web? Which Timelines include information about these people? Thanks! Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 12:10:29 -0700 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Small update on my home page. Ezio: At 11:38 AM 5/31/98 +0200, Ezio Pignatelli wrote: TThere is now a new link on my dnd home page, at http://leda.pd.astro.it/~epignat/dnd/ >showing what can be done to "Save Mystara". >[...] >All the real authors are adequately quoted and recognized, but if they don't like the thing to be on my page, I'll remove it. No problem from this end! I looks pretty good to me, and thanks for taking the time to put it all together :-) One thing though -- I think that information about the Save Mystara page was added to the final paragraph of the Petition Letter. Check the copy Jeff Daly sent to the list in the last few days to be sure. Jenni - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs strawberry@jamm.com <==> http://www.jamm.com/ <------------------------------------------------------------------> God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. Then God started to think: "I should create things *I* like!" And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 21:06:14 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Just what can a 12th level mage do to a Thyatian Legion? A lot! On Sun, 31 May 1998, Shin Chyang Yu wrote: >Couple more possible reason on why Alphatia's mages doesn't take over the world. >1. There was a discussion a while ago on perhaps the Alphatia's council don't have nearly as many 1000 max level mages. Perhaps at one time but not now. I remember that. I dont know if it is valid though. The Alphatians are mass producers of potions of longevity, so the old age thing shouldnt be a problem really. I guess thats why Alphatia is so static. A bunch of ancient guys managing the Empire. These people are not going to be innovative and break with traditions. "Its always been done like this son, wait a couple of hundred years and you will realize my wisdom.." - -Renothrioch, Alphatian sage. One problem with my argument is that all these guys died during WotI, since the longevity effect failed during the day without magic. (Does this mean potions of Longevity are useless on Mystara now?) A lot of them may have been wished back though... >2. I always thought that the adventuring mage might only be a small percentage of all the mages, who generally increase their power through research. Those "research mages" might have the spell power of a 20th level mage, but hit point and saving throws are not much better than normal man. This should make them very paranoid, and avoid danger whenever possible. So they would lock themself in their tower and go out to kill some soldiers are the last thing they want to do. Beside that is what the army is for... Sound like a reasonable optional rule.. A voice in the back of my head: "Trying to fix the AD&D rules, eh? Good Luck! Hint: RuneQuest, GURPS, Storyteller, Pendrazgon, Elric, L5R, SAGA etc, etc...." Cheers! Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #369 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, June 1 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 370 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Re: Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri [MYSTARA] - Thoughts on the 'Saving of Mystara' [LONG] Re: [MYSTARA] - Just what can a 12th level mage do to a Thyatian Legion? A lot! [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Acronums (was: Almanac/Glantri) Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Small update on my home page. Re: [MYSTARA] - More Implications of Jhereks Death (Was: Almanac/Glantri) Re: [MYSTARA] - More Implications of Jhereks Death (Was: Almanac/Glantri) Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - More Implications of Jhereks Death (Was: Almanac/Glantri) [MYSTARA] - Calarii elves Re: [MYSTARA] - Thoughts on the 'Saving of Mystara' [LONG] Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 15:29:54 -0400 From: David Brian Olsen Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Almanac/Glantri >>Who you think would be next high judge after Jherek is dead. Is there any law saying that you can't hold 2 or more charges at once? I thought that it never happened simply because no prince was willing to give another prince that much power, but I didn't think that there was a rule explicitly forbidding that. After all people can be vice-roys and have other charges too. In fact, I believe during the war, Jaggar himself was both Warden of the Marches (albeit an honorary position), Chamberlain of the Land, and a vice-roy. Thus either Isidore or Harald could also be considered for the position of Supreme Judge, it's just unlikely that the others would be willing to give them so much power. IF Harald managed to win it, then his voting power on the council would increase to 32. That's over a third of the votes required to pass an issue! I doubt the other princes would give even the "Reluctant Prince" that much power. So now I feel that I should say who I think would make the best candidate. Personally, I think Princess Erewan would make a good choice. She's a good lawful type who'd make fair decisions, plus after what she's been through, she deserves it. Furthermore, the Clan of Ellerovyn lost considerable power when they took away her charge of being Chamberlain of the Land. Of course, Dolores and Carnelia would oppose her, but she might get enough support from Isidore, Harald, Malachie.Finally, what about the heir of Jherek as the judge? Which brings up the point (maybe the Almanac already answered this, but I forgot already) who is Jherek's heir? BTW, I like the Harald-Palpatine connection/theory, though I don't think that happens to be the case. David P.S. I feel kind of silly asking this, but what does IIRC stand for? I think I've figured out all the other acronyms, except this one. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 15:59:59 EDT From: CRlPTONITE@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri << Myself, I like the low profile approach of a mortal Etienne. Keeps the setting going and keeps the natives (MML) quiet. :-) Alex >> Remember, cannonically (is that a word?) Etienne does return and immediatly becomes the Prince once again. During MoA, people from Belcadiz, Boldavia, Morlay-Malinbois, etc are there to witness the happinings. Etienne realizes there is no way he can remain low-key and trust all these people to keep his secret. He then invites other Princes to his castle to prove that he is back so that he can reclaim his throne. This scenario happens whether or not Etienne is still Immortal. - --- -- --Criptonite *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 13:56:54 -0700 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Thoughts on the 'Saving of Mystara' [LONG] I didn't say too much the first time I posted to the Save Mystara board, so I've decided to write up something a bit more substantial and post again. I have also Cc'ed this to the Mystara Mailing List and am posting it to the Mystara Message Board just for general interest sake. For those reading this in one of those locations, there's no need to comment unless something grabs you by the throat and demands you frame a reply. ;-) With that said, onward ho! - --------------------------------- THOUGHTS ON THE SAVING OF MYSTARA - --------------------------------- First, I have to say that Mystara is one of the most complex and exciting gaming worlds I've been fortunate enough to Role Play with. The many countries of Mystara present the DM with a multitude of flavours and styles that they can use for a campaign. As someone familiar with the wonderfully detailed world of Mystara, I would hope the 'Mystara Rising' campaign will help TSR/WotC see just how many Role-Players dedicated to or interested in Mystara there are, and hopefully convince them to bring our beloved campaign world back again. As you should know, the source material that makes up 'Mystara' was all originally designed by TSR for the 'original' D&D game. Even before it was known as 'Mystara', the modules that were set in the 'Known World' were developing this interesting fantasy world. However, D&D has fallen out of favour by TSR, and after an abortive attempt to market Mystara as a 'begginers' AD&D world, further development in Mystara was cancelled. Sales were low for this 'new' Mystara, partly because experienced Mystara players had little use for 'beginner' level accesories and partly because 'beginner' level players were not given as good reasons to look at Mystara as they were for other TSR AD&D worlds. I think that Mystara could be a bright gem in the diadem of TSR RPG Worlds, and it can even be this within the context of AD&D. But it has to be marketed properly and it has to be developed properly. My first suggestion would be for WotC/TSR to release source material for Mystara as a whole -- much like they have done for their other fantasy worlds. This material should include Special rules that differentiate the world of AD&D Mystara from the other AD&D TSR worlds. Discuss the ideas behind the world as a whole and give enouch specific details about certain areas so that any DM could start developing a campaign there. Also provide a well crafted Module for a set of low level characters, and maybe give the stats for a well rounded group that could play this module. (As an aside, one thing I'd like to see is a mix of male and female PC's. I don't know about the other World Settings, but I do know that the "intro to AD&D" boxed set provides six male PC's. And while the Nephew I gave the set to didn't mind, I would have given it to the child if he were a Niece instead, and I think WotC/TSR should do whatever they can to encourage the development of both male and female role players.) I would recommend setting this source material mainly at the same Mystaran era as the original Gazetteers -- AC1000 -- for reasons I will try to explain below. Note, however, that I also feel it is very important that this material provide significant, though perhaps brief, details about how the information provided would change as time moves on towards the later era of WotI and Post-WotI. I recommend setting the bulk of this material (and much of the other things I'm going to suggest) at the AC1000 era because I truly believe that *THIS* era has the best chance of capturing the imaginations of new commers. For one thing, this is the era that has already proved itself by ignighting the creative minds of most of the current Mystara fans. It is also the case that a majority of the rich and rewarding detail of Mystara is based on the history of Mystara developed for that era. And while you could re-develop a lot of this for the more recent post-Wrath era, new comers to Mystara would miss out on so much of the inspired work that has already been done in creating this world. However, relying exclusively on developing the AC1000 era isn't really going to help out the existing 'loyal fans' of Mystara, many of whom have most, if not all, of the original Gazetteers. For these people, it is imperative that any material produced for Mystara provide information that both expands on what was previously published for AC1000 and that shows how the world moves on over time, up to and beyond WotI. My next suggestion to WotC/TSR would be to start re-releasing the content of the original Gazetteers in some form, still in the AC1000 era, but modified to AD&D. For these 'New Gazetteers' I would suggest a definite split of the information into two books, one for DM's and one for Players, and I would like to see reprints of the 8-mile hex maps. Thus they would be very similar to the originals, yet slightly different, giving them a wider appeal. If WotC/TSR wanted, they could market the books and maps separately, or they could market them as a two-book-and-map package, or as some variation on that theme -- whatever would make the most economic sense. In any case, I would hope that the price for these re-worked sets would be in the same relative range as the current 'complete X handbooks'. Price is one of the biggest factors of consideration for most RPG'ers -- given a choice between product X and Y, the one with the lower cost will usually be purchased first -- one of the main reasons that the AD&D boxed sets for Mystara did so poorly, IM(ns)HO, was the outragous prices! I would also seriously recommend that WotC/TSR consider adding new AC1000 material to these re-worked Gazetteers that was not included in the originals -- this would help to give these new items more appeal to existing Mystara fans who may already own the original Gazetteers. An example would be to expanding the details of the area's society to include things that were overlooked or left out the first time. Another example would be to correct 'inconsistancies' that cropped up between the Gazetteers as newer publications expanded and perhaps contradicted the contents of older ones. Again, I would also recommend that the 'New Gazetteers' should provide significant details about how the world changes up to and beyond WotI. Then WotC/TSR could start developing 'New Gazetters' on the undeveloped areas of the outer Mystara -- Wendar, Denagoth, parts of The Southern Continent perhaps. Again, in the AC1000 era, but with more details about how things change leading up to and beyond WotI. These 'New Gazetteers' would definitely appeal to existing Mystara fans, and should also appeal to new comers who have been hooked by the 'Overview' material. The next thing I'd like to see in conjuntion with the AD&D re-working of Mystara would be a re-release of many of the Mystara D&D modules as well as the development of new Modules for the world. Coverting the D&D ones to AD&D, but otherwise leaving them as is, would certainly not take as much effort as creating all new modules and would provide WotC/TSR with the capability to release a number of modules for the revised world of Mystara fairly quickly. Creating new modules would allow WotC/TSR employees to exercise their creative juices and would garner the attention of existing Mystara fans. And, of course, as a true acknowledgement of existing Mystara fans, the Mystara Almanacs -- something I believe is unique to the TSR world of Mystara -- should be maintained in some way, continuing the expansion of Mystara into the future. Although many Mystara fans feel what I am about to say is a pipe-dream, I think that it might be given some serious consideration by WotC/TSR if they can be shown it would be worth their while to do so. I would truly like to see WotC/TSR think about basing some of the future Almanacs on the extensive collective work that has already been done on the net-almanacs. What are my reasons why I think they should consider this option? 1) On the one hand, the current net-almanac editors have copyright on the existing material because they creating it, while WotC/TSR has trademark on the world it is based in. As a result, neither party can use this material for profit without the other's permission. To generate a new Almanac under these conditions, WotC/TSR would have to spend considerable time ensuring that NOTHING MATCHED between the two, which would be extremely time consuming, and would also result in a quandry for those Fans who have actually used the net-almanacs in their campagins. 2) On the other hand, I wouldn't be at all surprised that any deal WotC/TSR could make with the editors of these existing efforts would be economically superior to the results of trying to do all the work on their own (especially given the need to ensure no cross-over between the two). I suspect that the almanac editors are more interested in letting Mystara grow and prosper than they are in gaining any outrageous consessions from WotC/TSR. I'm willing to bet that simple public recognition for their work and perhaps a small reward -- say a free Mystara-based product -- would be more than enough to convince these Fans to give WotC/TSR legal permission to use their almanac work as the basis of a published product. WotC/TSR would, of course, expect to have total control over how the resulting work was edited, modified, adjusted, disected and reconstructed, but is that so terrible a price to pay to have Mystara back out on the market again -- with DIRECT input from the FANS? I think not. And, as I've already said, I suspect that the almanac editors would feel the same way. Finally, when all the above takes off (as I am SURE it will), WotC/TSR can then start seriously developing new Mystara products. They can also expand their re-release process to include an AD&D version of the WotI boxed set, the Hollow World boxed set, and the Champions of Mystara set. (Although, as another aside, I'd actually like to see the contents of the Champions of Mystara set re-done in the 'New Gazetter' format -- the original set didn't split DM and PC information very well for any of the areas that were covered.) So, in short, I can say that I'd like to see a Mystara relaunch that centers on the AC1000 era but also covers and futher develops the Wrath/Post-Wrath era. This would bring new players into Mystara using the existing rich development of the AC1000 era, it would allow long time fans continue having their campaign worlds move forward into the future, AND it would bring profitablility to WotC/TSR. Not a bad combination, wouldn't you think? ;-) Just my two Darokin Passems. I hope someone significan is actually listening... ;-) Jenni A. M. Merrifield - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- Vancouver, BC, Canada - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs strawberry@jamm.com <==> http://www.jamm.com/ <------------------------------------------------------------------> God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. Then God started to think: "I should create things *I* like!" And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 17:31:27 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Just what can a 12th level mage do to a Thyatian Legion? A lot! On Sun, 31 May 1998, [iso-8859-1] Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: >mean potions of Longevity are useless on Mystara now?) No, I don't think so. In the week without magic, Potions of longevity failed. but on the DoD, I'd assume at least IMC, that those potions didn't fail miserably. Maybe on that one day, the user feels very weak, but doesn't nessecarlily die. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 23:39:36 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Acronums (was: Almanac/Glantri) On Sun, 31 May 1998, David Brian Olsen wrote: >P.S. I feel kind of silly asking this, but what does IIRC stand for? I think I've figured out all the other acronyms, except this one. These acronyms can be really confusing. I wouldn't be surprised if there are others out there who are wondering whaz Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri On Thu, 28 May 1998, Harri M{ki wrote: >Who you think would be next high judge after Jherek is dead. Good question. Add to this issue: Jaggar possibly losing his title, plus the upcoming Awards Festival for the unspecified minor dominions, and 1016 could see the biggest change in Glantri’s political map for quite some time. The Virayana-Krinagar alliance has probably been the strongest presence on the Council of Princes over the last few years (total voting power = 47 using Aleksei’s numbers). With Lan-Syn replacing Jherek I see no reason for that alliance to weaken. After all, Lan-Syn and Urmahid are sister and brother. This is probably reason enough for the other princes not to want either of these houses to regain control of the Supreme Judge’s position, not to mention Lan-Syn’s newbie status and Urmahid’s current post as Chancellor. Lan-Syn would probably still apply for the position though. >My favourite for judge is Morphail. I think this would open whole lot of >gaming possibilities for behind door politics. Think about it nosferatu/vampire as high judge and leader of police. It would be a perfect job for Morphail. He as high judge sits in his tower and makes interrogations in night and is never seen in daylight. I agree, Morphail would be an intriguing choice, though I’m not sure he would get the votes. The other princes might not trust him in charge of a huge resource like the Glantrian constabulary and its archives, as he’ll likely abuse it against them. There again, if the entropy-influencing status of the NoS somehow affects Glantrian politics then we could see him get the position yet. More likely, he could Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 10:21:17 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #370 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: ccdb7667ea7dd9628ede5e07222bf3ec always ‘sell’ his votes on this issue and on the Jaggar issue, to expand the borders of his principality or his pawns’ baronies, or maybe to select likely new pawns for his new neighbors in the Awards Festival. On Thu, 28 May 1998, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote: III think Malachie is probably the current Judge-pro-tem. Next year, we can have >>a formal vote in the house for the position. Just my opinion, though. On Fri, 29 May 1998, Aleksei Andrievski wrote: OOr maybe Isidore. But both of them are probably too chaotic to be Judges >(Jherek was lawful). Giving the Supreme Judge position to Isidore or Malachie would boost the power of the d’Ambreville-Marais alliance’s voting power into the 40s. Again, I think the other princes might try to avoid this if they could. However, either is probably a good choice for the position, for the general well-being of Glantri - or at least more healthy than Morphail ;-). In a message dated 98-05-29 02:22:12 EDT, ANDREW.THEISEN@ASU.Edu writes: KKKol is Viceroy of the Great Crater, and Dolores is Treasurer. Thye'd have to >>give up their positions, and probably wouldn't get any votes. On Sat, 30 May 1998 Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: DDolores would, but Kol wouldn't -- Viceroy positions do not exclude greater >charges. But you are right that Kol would not get very many votes -- certainly not enough to be eleceted to the position. Kol’s influence is probably at a high after the Ethengar war given his pivotal role. However, I agree that the other princes wouldn’t consider him as Supreme Judge material (yet). More to the point, IMHO Kol and Dolores will be using all their influence to buy votes against Jaggar rather than trying to pursue the Supreme Judge’s position. As her role of Treasurer, Dolores might take advantage of the empty position to reduce the budget of the Supreme Judge without a concerted opposition from Jherek, just to weaken the power of the position a little (e.g. fewer constables on the canals and streets of Glantri to spot sneaky dragon antics). On Fri, 29 May 1998, Aleksei Andrievski wrote: JJuliana probably fits best by her personality, and she's not as young as people make her out to be (33 in 1015). Maybe even >Carnelia or Carlotina. BTW, has anyone given any though to Juliana's origins >(remember she has silver hair unlike her mom's and dad's fiery red)? I would guess that if one elf stands for the position then so will the other to oppose her. Either as Judge could create good possibilities though. Juliana is probably the best choice - I’d like to see her have a chance to prove herself. She might be a little too 'nice' given Glantri's supposed descent into darkness. I must admit I hadn’t given much thought to Juliana’s origin before you asked, though I’d like to hear your thoughts, Aleksei. Maybe the Dragon Nation has taken an interest in the politics of Glantri again? After all, Uncle Anton the gold dragon, always seems on hand to defend her. I’d rule out Angus, Harald and Jaggar for the good reasons others have already put forward. Martin. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 19:02:19 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Small update on my home page. At 11:38 AM 5/31/98 +0200, Ezio Pignatelli wrote: TThere is now a new link on my dnd home page, at http://leda.pd.astro.it/~epignat/dnd/ >showing what can be done to "Save Mystara". I just copied the text of the petition, some basic internet addresses, and the Mystaran Writers' Project guidelines. It looks great! Thanks Ezio! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 16:16:38 PDT From: "Martin Edwards" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - More Implications of Jhereks Death (Was: Almanac/Glantri) On Thu, 28 May 1998 Rob wrote: >Isnt Urmahids principality toast after the invasion? That might stand against him. But I suppose he would make a good replacement for Jherek - - >after all, he was practically a carbon copy... (Jherek was so cool!!! It sucks that he died - but, then, all the Princes >are cool. I suppose if one HAD to go, I would have agonised, and gone for >Jherek. Or more likely Urmahid...) Yes, Jherek was cool. It’s probably not a popular opinion, but Jherek is my favorite character on Mystara. He’s always struck me as being like the quiet spider in the center of the web. Sure, he has some terrible qualities, but for me, it adds to the mystique rather than detracting from it. Jherek’s replacement as Supreme Judge has already been mentioned. At least as interesting for me is his replacement as Prince of Krondahar. It’s intriguing that a noted misogynist (ref. G:KoM, sorry DM) names his successor as his arcaner wife, Lan-Syn, rather than either of his young sons. I don’t think that the 1015 almanac actually states whether or not Jherek named his successor, so there could always be some obscure Krondaharian/Glantrian law which decided the matter instead. I’d prefer to suggest though that Jherek purposefully named Lan-Syn : a) in order to maintain the alliance with Urmahid, her brother. Perhaps either of the young sons might have been unduly influenced by their respective mothers to break with the kin of that hated Lan-Syn. and b) because she is not a blood descendent, Lan-Syn is probably immune to the magical oath that Jherek’s ancestors swore 'never to break the Glantrian law against harboring clerical sects'. Unlike Urmahid who is adapted to Glantri’s culture, Jherek always remained proud of his Ethengar roots IMHO. Hence his choice of clothing and decision to take multiple wives. I like to think that Jherek secretly resented the oath despite following it to the word. By naming Lan-Syn his successor he frees House Singhabad from the oath, and hopes to aid the efforts of the Ten Thousand Fists in Glantri. (It is irony then, that Jherek was destroyed by the Ethengars but he would never have been able to reveal his secret motivations without violating the oath.) Don’t get me wrong: I think Jherek was a Glantrian patriot and a trustworthy man, and he would be very glad that Glantri won the war over Ethengar. However, I believe that he would like to have seen a few different attitudes in Glantri regarding acceptance of priests and Krondaharians in general. IMHO, most of the other princes wouldn’t remember the details of the Virayanas’ oath, but rather judge them on their history of loyal service to Glantri. As such, if she shared Jherek’s opinions, Lan-Syn could carefully start to aid the rebuilding of the Ten Thousand Fists in Glantri: ironically, events which might put her on a collision course with her brother in the future... .. Just my little opinion, but I’d welcome any comments, Martin. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 22:03:38 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - More Implications of Jhereks Death (Was: Almanac/Glantri) In a message dated 98-05-31 19:30:55 EDT, martin1016@hotmail.com writes: >By naming Lan-Syn his successor he >frees House Singhabad from the oath, and hopes to aid the efforts of the Ten Thousand Fists in Glantri. That one is a little hard to believe -- the Ten Thousand Fists are clearly a subversive political organization aimed at overthrowing the magocracy of Glantri. Jherek might be inclined to befriend other clerics, but he would certainly roll over in his grave if Lan-Syn started supporting them. In any case, if Lan-Syn did something like that, her doom would be sealed (if it isn't already). By the way -- that is an aspect of the succession feud that I hadn't considered. If Lan-Syn is eliminated as I suggested, then Urmahid would go from being a firm ally of Krondahar to its bitterest foe. The resulting shake-up in the balance of power could be devastating. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 22:03:33 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Almanac/Glantri In a message dated 98-05-31 15:37:50 EDT, dolsen@wesleyan.edu writes: >In fact, I >believe during the war, Jaggar himself was both Warden of the Marches (albeit an honorary position), Chamberlain of the Land, and a vice-roy. I am not sure, but at one point he may actually have been Chamberlain and Chancellor at the same time -- but he would have had to give up one or both positions after the war. Jaggar is in an interesting position politically -- his voting strength is unexceptional, but in time of war he gains complete control of the army and by extension has broad emergency powers. Is it any wonder that he favors aggressive policies? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 22:03:34 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Almanac/Glantri In a message dated 98-05-31 15:37:50 EDT, dolsen@wesleyan.edu writes: >Which brings up the point (maybe the >Almanac already answered this, but I forgot already) who is Jherek's heir? G:KoM answered that question -- and the answer is rather troublesome. Jherek is survived by three wives (one of whom, Lan-Syn, is a Mage and thus his heir-apparent) and two sons, Ralindi and Rejladan, both of whom are Mages. Given the attitudes of Jherek's wives towards one another, I would expect Jherek's death to be followed by a few murders within the family, leaving one of Jherek's sons on the throne and Lan-Syn (among others) dead. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 22:03:43 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri In a message dated 98-05-31 18:25:08 EDT, martin1016@hotmail.com writes: >I agree, Morphail would be an intriguing choice, though I’m not sure he wwould get the votes. The other princes might not trust him in charge of a huge resource like the Glantrian constabulary and its archives, as he’ll likely abuse it against them. There again, if the entropy-influencing status of the NoS somehow affects Glantrian politics then we could see him get the position yet. More likely, he could always ‘sell’ his votes on this issue and on the Jaggar issue, to expand the borders of his principality or his pawns’ baronies, or maybe to select likely new pawns for his new neighbors in the Awards Festival. Did Morphail ever leave Boldavia in the almanacs for AC 1014 or 1015? As I recall, his unwillingness to leave home has been the main factor limiting his power. But he would make an interesting compromise candidate for Supreme Judge. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 22:03:41 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri In a message dated 98-05-31 18:25:08 EDT, martin1016@hotmail.com writes: >Good question. Add to this issue: Jaggar possibly losing his title, pplus the upcoming Awards Festival for the unspecified minor dominions, and 1016 could see the biggest change in Glantri’s political map for quite some time. Of course there is one way that Jaggar could minimize the adverse effects on his house -- abdicate and throw his support behind giving all of his charges to his son Sigmund. Assuming that Jaggar and Dolores are no longer lovers, this change would not affect the balance of power -- but if they are still lovers, Dolores will reject him and become a foe of Aalban at that point. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 22:03:37 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - More Implications of Jhereks Death (Was: Almanac/Glantri) In a message dated 98-05-31 19:30:55 EDT, martin1016@hotmail.com writes: >It’s intriguing that a noted misogynist (ref. G:KoM, sorry DM) names his ssuccessor as his arcaner wife, Lan-Syn, rather than either of his young sons. I don’t think that the 1015 almanac actually states whether or not Jherek named his successor, so there could always be some obscure Krondaharian/Glantrian law which decided the matter instead. I think Gaz 3 gave the order of succession as follows: 1) Spouse (if he or she is a wizard of level 9+) 2) Child (ditto) If an eligible heir is available, then succession is pretty much automatic - -- although chaos could still ensue if the designated heir is too weak to hold on to the position. That must be what happened in New Averoigne after WotI, as Etienne's wife would have been his obvious heir; however, she was easily pushed aside by Henri and Isidore. However, if no eligible heir is available, then the succession is wide open, and chaos will almost certainly ensue in that case as the Council votes on the succession. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 23:33:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Savoie Subject: [MYSTARA] - Calarii elves >Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 20:55:58 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] The Calari Elves ASCII good. ISO baaaaaad. >I'm thinking about doing some work on the Calari elves of Radleb forest. I need some help with finding information though. AFAIK the best sources are Gaz1, K:KoM, and B10, all of which I own :) Don't forget that the Calarii are elves first and foremost. You need the Elves of Alfheim Gazeteer, which probably mentioned the Calarii as well. I'd like to see a game where the Elves go evil, and dress up in hippie threads and seek to expand the borders of their forest with tree seedlings and fast-grow magic, adding the square miles and encroaching on the farm communities and the delicate eco-system of the urban areas, until valiant logging companies are formed to repel them... "Groovy!" [rrrrRRRRRRRRRRR] --Bruce Campbell in EVIL DEAD II: DEAD BY DAWN :-) Concerning movies for AD&D play, I found the building setting in JU DOU interesting. This was a Chinese movie about an old crabby cloth-dyer who gets married, and the son falls in love with the woman. The multi-story building has to have an open center for long bolts of dipped cloth to dry in the sun. Great architecture for a suspenseful D&D game called...oh...DYE HARD. Of course, you can carry this movie-talk to an extreme, since many adventure movies have a recurring theme. I'd like to see you geniuses do something in D&D with the sappy THE PRINCE OF TIDES...like how history is changed when the conqueror "gets in touch with his feelings" and understands the root cause of his psychological behaviour, weeps a bit, and then becomes a nice guy. - ---Pierre Savoie (ab966@torfree.net) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 20:48:11 -0700 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thoughts on the 'Saving of Mystara' [LONG] At 01:56 PM 5/31/98 -0700, Jenni A. M. Merrifield wrote: ---------------------------------- >THOUGHTS ON THE SAVING OF MYSTARA >--------------------------------- Erk. I hate mail programs that don't have spell checkers. :-I I'm embarassed about the number of significant spelling and grammatical errors that leaked into the text of my message, even after I read it through once to proofread and correct. I am particularily amazed that I managed to spell 'igniting' as 'ignighting'. I'm sure /that's/ going to impress WotC/TSR to no end. [NOT] *sigh*. Jenni - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs strawberry@jamm.com <==> http://www.jamm.com/ <------------------------------------------------------------------> God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. Then God started to think: "I should create things *I* like!" And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 09:40:43 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri >Of course there is one way that Jaggar could minimize the adverse effects on his house -- abdicate and throw his support behind giving all of his charges to his son Sigmund. Assuming that Jaggar and Dolores are no longer lovers, this change would not affect the balance of power -- but if they are still lovers, Dolores will reject him and become a foe of Aalban at that point. I don't think Sigmund would be Jaggar's favorite choice for a successor. At least not unless Sigmund becomes *much* more militarily oriented. But really, there is a very obvious way for Jaggar to regain his title. ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #370 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:04:43 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #371 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: cf65249426332f952f120d17ebb5b466 mystara-digest Monday, June 1 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 371 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] -Alphatian Council Re: [MYSTARA] - Calarii elves Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Just what can a 12th level mage do to a Thyatian Legion? A lo Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri [MYSTARA] - Looking Out My Window... Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! [MYSTARA] - Hope for Mystara.. Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] The Calari Elves Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri [MYSTARA] - Mystaran History (was: MystaraRising! Please don't) [MYSTARA] - To DM Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 11:09:36 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] -Alphatian Council In a message dated 98-05-31 14:44:36 EDT, John Yu writes: << Couple more possible reason on why Alphatia's mages doesn't take over the world. 1. There was a discussion a while ago on perhaps the Alphatia's council don't have nearly as many 1000 max level mages. Perhaps at one time but not now.>> Well from what I remember of that discussion, that theory was pretty much dispelled. Not only is the Grand Council "canon" (how I hate to use the term), but it is also possible. Thyatis has its 250 Wizards of Sclaras (sp). Ierendi has its Honor Island with its mages. And you have Glantri and all of its mages. Honor Island should be pointed to especially since all of its human inhabitants are mages. <<2. I always thought that the adventuring mage might only be a small percentage of all the mages, who generally increase their power through research. Those "research mages" might have the spell power of a 20th level mage, but hit point and saving throws are not much better than normal man. This should make them very paranoid, and avoid danger whenever possible. So they would lock themself in their tower and go out to kill some soldiers are the last thing they want to do. Beside that is what the army is for...>> I have to disagree. While studying magic to gain levels does denote shortages in regards to adventure experience, it also offers a better understanding of magic. In this I mean, a mage spending his life studying knows his magic. Whereas an adventuring mage acquires his spells from capturing spellbooks. That studied understanding can reasonably compensate for the HD and saving throws gained through adventuring XP. And XP is experience points. How that experience is gained, either in class or in the field, really should not matter. I do agree that much of the mages of Alphatia would probably fall into the studious mage category instead of the adventuring mage category. Why would an Alphatian mage, the ruling class with the resources of the Empire at his call, endanger his life for a handful of GPs? More ambitious mages may go that rout to advance their own spell research but not your average mage. I find it hard to understand why so many folk continue to disavow that Alphatia can muster so many mages. MagicUsers are a huge part of Alphatian history, society, economy, and future. Alphatia is known as the superpower in regards to magics. It is only right that they have the better and most numerous mages. Look at Blackheart according to DotE. Its population is 50,000. 1% is listed as mages. That's half of the number of mages on the Grand Council. True not all are 36th level and therefore lack consideration for Council membership. But given the nature of these mages and the lack of restrictions, they have to be of at least mid level. The King of Blackheart is 36th level so there are surely other as high as he. But if you castrate Alphatia's mages, then you remove the mysterious, omnipotent nature of that distant land. To do so, would be like diminishing the clerics of the Heldannic Territories. Those clerics are the bread and butter of the Knights. Without them there would be no Territories. Or take the advantages an Ethie cavalryman has away. Do that and the Ethie would either be extinct on the surface world or enslaved. I really do not see the big deal with the Council. It is a game tool. There is no real means to rationally use it in a game. Sure you could have a member or two commisioning a group of PCs to do some job. You could even have one being very ambitious and seeking the Imperial Throne. But not all of the Members would be encountered at one time. That is unless the PC party has visions of invincibility and decides to kick the doors down while Council is holding some meeting. But then discovering when and where such a meeting would occur would entail a campaign rivalling that of the path to Immortality. This being that the Council serves no political or administrative purpose. Its sole function is to offer a counter to the Imperial Throne as to not have a repeat of Alphaks Folly. Why then does Alphatia and its bounty of super mages not conquer everyone in Mystara? Simple, they do not have that need yet. The Empire is a comfortable size. The treasury is full thanks to tribute. The populace is well fed due to the abundant agricultural products that are able to be grown. The Empires borders are relatively secured. Alphatians are known to follow the path of least resistance. So why expand for no reason. In Wrath of the Immortals, that reason was the potential loss of magic, the power that keeps the ruling class ruling. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 17:13:23 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Calarii elves On Sun, 31 May 1998, Pierre Savoie wrote: >>Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 20:55:58 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] The Calari Elves >ASCII good. ISO baaaaaad. But without ISO you can't see the wonderful scandinavian letters can you? :) >>I'm thinking about doing some work on the Calari elves of Radleb forest. I need some help with finding information though. AFAIK the best sources are Gaz1, K:KoM, and B10, all of which I own :) >Don't forget that the Calarii are elves first and foremost. You need the Elves of Alfheim Gazeteer, which probably mentioned the Calarii as well. Oh yes, I have that one, and I will probably include some information from that gaz. IRC it doesn't say too much about the calarii except indicating that they may have a Tree of Life. That seems to be more or less official? Interresting that I managed to misspell Calarii.. *blush* >I'd like to see a game where the Elves go evil, and dress up in hippie threads and seek to expand the borders of their forest with tree seedlings and fast-grow magic, adding the square miles and encroaching on the farm communities and the delicate eco-system of the urban areas, until valiant logging companies are formed to repel them... ""Groovy!" [rrrrRRRRRRRRRRR] --Bruce Campbell in EVIL DEAD II: DEAD BY DAWN :-) Hehey! I think that is a neat idea. I dont realy care much for labeling anyone good or evil, but it would be a nice touch to develope an elven culture with a certain hostile (imperialistic?) attitude. I dont think it would work too good with the Calarri, though, they seem like they are on very friendly terms with the Karameikans.. Are there chainsaws in Mystara? Probably not, but we should definately get some.. *grin* Any other ideas? Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 17:16:56 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri On Mon, 1 Jun 1998, Aleksei Andrievski wrote: >I don't think Sigmund would be Jaggar's favorite choice for a successor. At least not unless Sigmund becomes *much* more militarily oriented. But really, there is a very obvious way for Jaggar to regain his title. I didnt really like that stuff about Jaggar losing his title becuase he lost his arm. To me that sounds a bit..game mechanical.. I mean since you can't cast spells you are no longer a magic user? well maybe. Doesn't Harald of Haaskins have a crippled arm? I don't know what you're thinking about as the obvious way, but how about getting some Alchemists to make an artificial arm for him? Golem-tech. Cyberwear anyone? Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 11:34:11 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Just what can a 12th level mage do to a Thyatian Legion? A lo In a message dated 98-05-31 15:18:19 EDT, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no writes: << On Sun, 31 May 1998, Shin Chyang Yu wrote: >Couple more possible reason on why Alphatia's mages doesn't take over the world. >1. There was a discussion a while ago on perhaps the Alphatia's council don't have nearly as many 1000 max level mages. Perhaps at one time but not now. I remember that. I dont know if it is valid though. The Alphatians are mass producers of potions of longevity, so the old age thing shouldnt be a problem really. I guess thats why Alphatia is so static. A bunch of ancient guys managing the Empire. These people are not going to be innovative and break with traditions. "Its always been done like this son, wait a couple of hundred years and you will realize my wisdom.." -Renothrioch, Alphatian sage. >> Which brings up another thing. I do not buy the idea that most 36th level mages are aged mages kept kicking with magic. DotE has several rulers listed as 36th level mages with ages below 100 years. Queen Elshethara of Ambur is 24th lvl and only 40 years old. Not bad for someone devoting their early years to acting. King Zyndryl of Aquas is really 80 years old as well as a 36th level mage. Given he pursuaded Emperor TylionIV to allow him to build Aquas, it is easy to assume he has been an archmage for some time. King Hugorth of Blackheart is 36th level and is 50 years old. How long he has had that level is unknown. Empress Eriadna is 80 years old and a 36th level magist. Zandor is 35 and fast approaching archmage status (30th lvl) Tylion/Terari is a 36th level mage and is 120 years old. However, he has been a 36th level mage for some time, noted as being that level when he was Emperor. There are probably other examples but those came to mind and were the ones that I spied first in DotE. <> But would not the Immortals have brought some of those back. Plus since Alphatia sank during the Council bombardment on Glantri City, it is possible that most of the Council did not go down with the continent. Wished back is an option. So is a contengency spell or other precautions enacted as a regular method to any mage to insure ones continued health. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 11:41:35 -0500 From: "Thomas J. Mahaney" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? To answer the question ... they wouldn't. I know of very few gamers who would be willing to start over in a new campaign setting once they have invested so heavily in another. The only way this would work would be if new Mystara products were easily translated into FR. In my opinion, if Mystara is to succeed, new products need to be targetted at "old" Mystara players or new gamers. >At 04:33 PM 5/29/98 -0700, you wrote: >>>Why would a gamer, who has all the Realms stuff, want Mystara? Answer >this qqquestion and you have just sold the product line to TSR. >>This is a question that should probably be posed to the board in a different thread- or as an "important moderator" post so that everyone on the list reads it ? >Good point! Consider it done! >And thanks for your vote of confidence on the petition letter! >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. Thomas J. Mahaney II Help Desk Coordinator Office of Information Technologies Lederle Graduate Research Center Lowrise University of Massachuetts Amherst, MA 01003 tmahaney@oit.umass.edu (413) 545-2692 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 11:47:29 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri In a message dated 98-05-31 16:12:13 EDT, CRlPTONITE@aol.com writes: <<>Myself, I like the low profile approach of a mortal Etienne. Keeps the ssetting going and keeps the natives (MML) quiet. :-) Alex >> Remember, cannonically (is that a word?) Etienne does return and immediatly becomes the Prince once again. During MoA, people from Belcadiz, Boldavia, Morlay-Malinbois, etc are there to witness the happinings. Etienne realizes there is no way he can remain low-key and trust all these people to keep his secret. He then invites other Princes to his castle to prove that he is back so that he can reclaim his throne. This scenario happens whether or not Etienne is still Immortal. >> But that is just one scenario presented in MofA for if the PCs fail, then there is no Etienne (mortal or immortal). And i am going also with the scenario in last years net almanac. The way both are done, it would be difficult to incorporate both. Okay it would be impossible really. But I guess you cannot have it both ways. As for my response, I simply did as was asked by the original poster Kaviyd. Who asked (in a nutshell) if MoA was dealt with in the Almanac in any way. I answered what Etienne events were there. Basically pointing out that in the net almanacs, Etienne is keeping a low profile. Of course that does conflict with a successfully run MoA. BTW- I am always intrigued how Mark of Amber is so well received while the other AD&D Mystara products are shunned. They are all basically reboxes of the Gaz's and X2 with a few tweaks to update them. Alex- who will probably catch the devil for that BTW comment :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 17:55:45 +0200 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Looking Out My Window... Derek Harmon wrote: <> And the angle that the edge of the mountains substends on my horizon would be the arctangent of 4,500 / 420,800 (0.0107) which is 0.61 degrees (or 2.43 arcminutes). But wait, Mystara is curved. So the land 80 miles away falls below the horizon. Let's see, 6,190 mi (diameter of Mystara) x 5,280 ft/mi = 32,683,200 x 2 pi = 65,366,400 pi ft (circumference of Mystara) / 4 = 16,341,600 pi ft (circumference of one fourth of Mystara). Now, 420,800 ft / 16,341,600 pi ft = 0.0082 * 90 deg = 0.738 degrees of latitude between Specularum and the Mountains. I've approximated Mystara as a circle here, its actually an oblate spheroid but.. How much does the height fall after 0.738 degrees? Well, its moot. It's more than something subtending 0.61 degrees is tall. >> Say, what did you smoke pal? ;) Gosh, you've made my brain ache by only glancing at all those numbers.. << OK.. OK.. so you CAN'T see the Black Peak Mountains from Specularum.>> Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:04:43 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #371 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: cf65249426332f952f120d17ebb5b466 Ahhh.. now i feel much more relaxed.. ;p *just joking* DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 17:56:11 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Galwylin wrote: Jesse LaBranche wrote: >That pretty much leaves FR, GH, and Mystara. Note that Greyhawk is making a comeback, there's no reason that Mystara couldn't either, but for them to do this they're going to cut into the profit-margins of the others. Given the choices of FR, GH, and Mystara- I'd take Mystara every time. <> I agree with Galwylin here. Sure, i too would buy Mystara and disregard FR or GH, but since there are so many buyers out there who seem much more interested in the other settings, then Mystara will have troubles competing with those campaigns (as it always had). I mean, GH, FR, BR and even DL in a way are similar to one another and to Mystara that they compete among themselves to attract the same customers (they're high fantasy settings). So if TSR decides to revive Greyhawk, why should it revive Mystara as well? It would just fragment the market even more, lowering the profits for all those generic fantasy campaigns it supports.. The problem is again marketing: who do TSR want to attract with their products? New gamers or old-timers? If the first case is the right one, then having too many fantasy campaign worlds to choose among could be disorienting for neophytes. OTOH, if they're trying to bring back old timers, then reviving all campaign worlds could indeed attract more buyers.. DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 17:57:36 +0200 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Hope for Mystara.. Jeff Daly wrote: <> Yeah, i'm shocked to hear this from you! ;) But i infer you're frantically working behind the scenes to set the organization into motion and make it function like a swiss clockwork! :) <> Well, please, do it after the first half of July, when i'll be finally free from university stuff and i'll be able to dedicate to Mystara much more hours a day ;) <> You're right. I think too Mystara should have gone behind the scenes in a much more decent way. To me the last really good product was PWA3, and that's where they should have stopped. Also with PWA3 they had already converted Mystara to AD&D, so they had made the big step in the best possible way. All the things that came after it only ruined its image (beginning with Joshuan and ending with those CD products and.. aargghh.. cough.. G:KoM and the Survival... sorry i cannot really utter that word..;)). As for what Galwylin said about Mystara setting not being introduced as a whole, i agree with him. Rules Cyclopaedia was a damn good supplement because it rehashed the OD&D rules and detailed Mystara campaign enough to make it useful and comprehensible to every DM! If TSR really wanted to convert Mystara to AD&D they should have come up with something similar to Rules Cyclopaedia (or Hollow World..). <> Well, since i don't live in USA i cannot comment on this: i trust your words, Jeff. In Europe we haven't seen any TV advertising from WotC or TSR outside gaming stores. And IMHO the european market must not be ignored by TSR, especially if they wanna revive Mystara. I have the feeling that Mystara always sold more in Europe than in America, maybe because so many players in Europe were linked to OD&D.. I have no real stats to prove this: it's only my personal feeling, mind you. :) >Yeah, but this doesn't change the current situation: no current TSR employee has ever come neither to the MML, and as far as i know (i admit i am not an habitué of the MMB), nor to the MMB. Which means they are still ignoring us. <> Wow! That sounds really great ! ;) >It may be only a question of time before they reopen Mystara, i hope so, but then again the problem is, as you pointed out, how will this new Mystara look like? Frankly i didn't like the AD&D version, so i am not so sure i would buy new products if they looked that way.. <> Well, now you've given me a bit more hope (i'm not joking here). Thanx Jeff! And don't forget us of the MML if you'll ever be able to climb up the ladder of TSR burocracy.. ;) DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 18:11:26 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri At 22.36 30/05/98 EDT, you wrote: >One question -- do any of the net-Almanacs take account of the return of Etienne in _Mark of Amber_? If so, then Isidore would have had to give up her position as Chamberlain to somebody else, and Etienne would be available as a nominee for any other charges (such as Supreme Judge) that became available. We DID take this into account: strange you didn't notice... *malicious hint* Anyway, we're currently trying to decide in which form Etienne will come back (mortal/Immortal/questing mortal)... What do you suggest? DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 18:26:07 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri At 17.16 01/06/98 +0200, Håvard wrote: >I don't know what you're thinking about as the obvious way, but how about getting some Alchemists to make an artificial arm for him? Golem-tech. Cyberwear anyone? Eh eh... seems we're thinking along the same lines after all... BUT... it wouldn't really be Glantri if it was so simple, now wouldn't it?... *no more hints mode*... DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 18:25:51 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? On Mon, 1 Jun 1998, Thomas J. Mahaney wrote: >To answer the question ... they wouldn't. I know of very few gamers who would be willing to start over in a new campaign setting once they have invested so heavily in another. The only way this would work would be if new Mystara products were easily translated into FR. In my opinion, if Mystara is to succeed, new products need to be targetted at "old" Mystara players or new gamers. I think a problem with many TSR products is that they are very much Generic Fantasy. For experienced gamers, and fantasy lovers this gets boring real quick. If a setting is interesting it is because it is different from everything else on the market. Bruce asked what makes Mystara unique and I think that is the way to go to make Mystara a success. Thats why I have been posting that stuff about not using streotypical fantasy races etc. If we want stereotypes, we should make them ourselves. Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 18:35:16 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Hi Marco! On Mon, 1 Jun 1998, DM wrote: >Anyway, we're currently trying to decide in which form Etienne will come back (mortal/Immortal/questing mortal)... What do you suggest? I prefer Etienne back as normal. The default should be that the heroes succeed. This leaves Game Masters the opportunity of having Etienne returning as a mortal in 1012 and gaining Immortality in the following years, getting back into Almanac schedule. Etienne is far too interesting to be left just another mortal wizard anyway. He would probably quickly gain immortality with the help of Rafiel anyway, but that would make him an Initiate, and I dont want to see that happen. If so, he should find some way to quickly gain a few levels. (please dont put him into a mega-dungeon for Immortals..) To sum it up: Etienne back as he was before WotI, yet much wiser. BTW, Im not so sure Rad couldn't become an Old One by becoming a hierarch once. Some have argued that the way to become an OO is probably to become a hierarch twice, but who knows what happened to Rad during MoA? Rad is certainly in a unique situation. If the guy in WotI was an OO that means that the OOs have taken notice of Rad... Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 18:37:57 +0200 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] The Calari Elves At 20.55 31/05/98 +0200, you wrote: >I'm thinking about doing some work on the Calari elves of Radleb forest. I need some help with finding information though. AFAIK the best sources are Gaz1, K:KoM, and B10, all of which I own :) How much has been written about these guys already by you guys? Well, surely GAZ1 and GAZ5 (for elven way of life if nothing else), then Hollow World (for elves' migrations) and Daniel Boese's timeline (can find it anywhere on Mystara sites, it's on mine too..). I also wrote a rather long article about Elven Relics last year and another on Elven migrations, if you're interested (strangely enough, they're not on my site but on Geoff's and Shawn's..) :) PS: it's Callarii, with two "l" ;p DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 18:38:16 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri On Mon, 1 Jun 1998, DM wrote: >At 17.16 01/06/98 +0200, Håvard wrote: >>I don't know what you're thinking about as the obvious way, but how about getting some Alchemists to make an artificial arm for him? Golem-tech. Cyberwear anyone? >Eh eh... seems we're thinking along the same lines after all... BUT... it wouldn't really be Glantri if it was so simple, now wouldn't it?... *no more hints mode*... Marco, this is getting annoying :) I can't wait for the next almanac! "but thats a whole other year!" -Luke Skywalker to Owen Lars Bizarre SW-quotes just pop in my head all the time.. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 09:57:55 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran History (was: MystaraRising! Please don't) >Well, you said so yourself in your reply. The borders haven't changed. A lot has happened over the past 1000 years but its mostly been confined within the affected nations with nothing breaking the stability that has existed. The countless skirmishes between Thyatis and Alphatia is the worst example of this. Take the nations a 1000 years earlier and compare them to 1000 AC. What changed?> Traladara Became Karameikos, Darokins use to larger than what it is now, Sind lost half it's size (i.e. Became sonjapur in the HW), The Islands were once part of the Thyatian Empire until they rebelled and won their indepence. Their Shires and the Autruaghin Clans were once conquered by Gobliniods, who used to rule the W. Streel plains. so I can say with some confident that the border did chance some over the campaign world's last millenia for the KW. I take life with a grain of salt...a slice of lemon, and a shot tequila. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 18:01:09 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: [MYSTARA] - To DM >You're right. I think too Mystara should have gone behind the scenes in a much more decent way. To me the last really good product was PWA3, and that's where they should have stopped. Also with PWA3 they had already converted Mystara to AD&D, so they had made the big step in the best possible way. All the things that came after it only ruined its image (beginning with Joshuan and ending with those CD products and.. aargghh.. cough.. G:KoM and the Survival... sorry i cannot really utter that word..;)). Hey DM, I'm fascinated. What is so bad about G:KoM? I havnt got the original Glantri gaz so I can't compare it. But IMHO K:KoA is superior to the old Karameikos gaz (Ive got both of those...). Its a reprint with far superior presentation... And I think that G:KoM is better still. Is the original Glantri gaz that brilliant that it makes G:KoM pale into insignificance? Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 18:03:16 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri >At 17.16 01/06/98 +0200, Håvard wrote: >>I don't know what you're thinking about as the obvious way, but how about getting some Alchemists to make an artificial arm for him? Golem-tech. Cyberwear anyone? >Eh eh... seems we're thinking along the same lines after all... BUT... it wouldn't really be Glantri if it was so simple, now wouldn't it?... *no more hints mode*... >DM Herr Rolf von Graustein perhaps... Anyone into Manga here (I used to be). Anyone heard of Myunhi Hausen? Jaggar would end up like him... Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #371 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 16:20:14 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #372 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 90182dd4ca8a6adeab35ad92f92af34f mystara-digest Monday, June 1 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 372 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Immortal Servant: White Elf [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Immortal Servants: Black Elf Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Almanac Re: [MYSTARA] - Just what can a 12th level mage do to a Thyatian Legion? A lot! Re: [MYSTARA] -Alphatian Council Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Callarii elves Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - To DM Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Almanac [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Immortal Servants Re: [MYSTARA] - Re:Darokin Boxed Set. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 19:29:34 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Immortal Servant: White Elf Elf, White Sphere: Energy Status: Exalted Power Points: 100 Anti-Magic: 25:% Armor Class: 0 Hit Dice: 10********* Hit Points: 50 Move: 120’ (40’) Attacks: One Weapon (Spear, sword, battleaxe, short bow, long bow) Damage: by weapon No. Appearing: 1 (1d3) Save As: IM1 Morale: Special Intelligence: 1d8+17 Treasure Type: D Alignment: Neutral (in AD&D: Any non-evil) XP Value: 8,500 (0 PP) White Elves, also called Ljosalfar or High elves live on an outer plane called Alfheim. When Ordana created the elves of Mystara, Odin helped her with advice and power. In return she allowed him to walk among them. Odin soon became a good friend of the elves and those who listened to his wisdom were inspired. He asled a few of them to come and live with him, and they accepted. These became the White elves. White Elves are tall pale blonde humanoids with distinct elven features. They have no shadow. Rather, they are surrounded by an aura of light. White Elves are elegant and graceful beings. They voices are melodious and almost enthralling. Many White Elves are famous bards. The White Elves are not servants of Odin as such. They see Odin and his fellow Immortals as friends, and equals. The elves are often invited to parties in Valhalla, and the Immortals are always welcome in Alfheim. The White Elves hate Loki his Black Elves and will assist anyone fighting those forces. The White elves are very concerned with the safety of elves on Prime Material. They often disguise themselves as normal elves and walk among their shorter ‘cousins’. Sometimes special elven heroes are invited into the the realm of the White Elves. There are many gates between the outer plane called Alfheim and the elven kingdoms on Mystara. After the Shadowelf Invasion all gates to Alfheim(aka Aengmor) were closed. They will be reopened if the forest is restored. The White Elves rarely take actions that influence the political situations on Mystara, but they sometimes help individual elves. Special abilities: White Elves are exalted creatures who can be killed. Like Immortals they can spend TP to gain the abilities of 36th level spellcasters. They do not need to eat sleep or breathe. They are Immune to energy Drain, disease, aging and Immortal-level ESP spells. They only have one form and can not have a mortal identity. It takes a weapon +3 or greater to harm them. they have Anti-Magic, but are affected by moral magic. Characteristics: Ability scores for White Elves is determined as following Str, Con, Wis: 1d6+14; Dex, Int and Cha: 1d8+17. Where found: Alfheim (the outer plane), Prime Material, or anywhere else. Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 19:30:37 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Immortal Servants: Black Elf Elf, Black Sphere: Entropy Status: Exalted Power Points: 100 Anti-Magic: 25:% Armor Class: 0 Hit Dice: 10********* Hit Points: 50 Move: 120’ (40’) Attacks: One Weapon (Spear, sword, battleaxe, short bow, long bow) Damage: by weapon No. Appearing: 1 (1d3) Save As: IM1 Morale: Special Treasure Type: D Intelligence: 1d8+17 Alignment: Chaotic (in AD&D: any Evil) XP Value: 12,850 (1PP) Black elves, also referred to as Dark elves or Dock-alfar/svartalfar, are White Elves who were corrupted by the secret whispers of Loki. They now live on Lokis Homeplane Svartalfheim. The Black elves are pale vampire like elves with black or red hair. They are always surrounded by unnatural shadows, obscuring their figures. Black Elves make no sound when moving. When they speak it sound like they are whispering. The Black elves have had some contact with the Moulder Dwarves of the Northern Reaches, and have taught these dwarves secret magical rituals. Many Moulder Dwarves are puppets of Black elf plots. Black elves are motivated my greed for power and magic and are creatures of deception rather than violence. They are not brave and will rather flee than risk serious injury. Special abilities: These elves are exalted creatures who can be killed. Like Immortals they can spend TP to gain the abilities of 36th level spellcasters. They do not need to eat sleep or breathe. They are Immune to energy Drain, disease, aging and Immortal-level ESP spells. They only have one form and can not have a mortal identity. It takes a weapon +3 or greater to harm them. Black Elves have Anti-Magic, but are affected by moral magic. Characteristics: Ability scores for White Elves is determined as following Str, Con, Wis: 1d6+14; Dex, Int and Cha: 1d8+17. Where found: Svartalfheim or anywhere else. Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 10:34:00 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Almanac >I'm working on doing just that. Ethengar becomes a disputed land between the Heldennics, the united Northern Reaches and the reconquered Alfheim allied with Wendar. The clans get caught in the middle and arecrushed in the power struggle that forces them to invade parts of Glantri in their migration. All part of the winds of war that have replaced the power vacuum of Thyatis and Alphatia. Galwylin, what was Darokin doing in this affair going on in your Game World? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 12:38:50 -0500 (CDT) From: Stephen Dolan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Just what can a 12th level mage do to a Thyatian Legion? A lot! I think you missed some important spells that can do massive damage to an army. And can really help the mage. I agree he can do some damage to the Legion but he can't take it down. Cloudkill. If he can catch them unawares he can knock down hundreds to thousands of 1-4th level warriors. Protection from normal Missles. Minor Globe of Invurnalbility. Fire Shield. - can kill anybody who tries to strike him. And we haven't even discussed any magic items he might have, such as a Cube of Force. Sling spells outa there :) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:45:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] -Alphatian Council Alex295@aol.com pontificated: >Well from what I remember of that discussion, that theory was pretty much dispelled. Was it? I thought it just died after a while, like most threads here:) >I have to disagree. While studying magic to gain levels does denote shortages in regards to adventure experience, it also offers a better understanding of magic. In this I mean, a mage spending his life studying knows his magic. Whereas an adventuring mage acquires his spells from capturing spellbooks. That studied understanding can reasonably compensate for the HD and saving throws gained through adventuring XP. And XP is experience points. How that experience is gained, either in class or in the field, really should not matter. Yes, experience point is experience point. But XP gained by a fighter, for example, improves different aspects of a character from XP gained by a wizard. For a research mage, XP gained will increase his magical ability, but not much in terms of combat ability, which IMO, are what HPs and saving throw mostly represent. >I find it hard to understand why so many folk continue to disavow that Alphatia can muster so many mages. MagicUsers are a huge part of Alphatian history, society, economy, and future. Alphatia is known as the superpower in regards to magics. It is only right that they have the better and most numerous mages. I dislike it because it seems to be suddenly added to Mystara through DotE. Before that box set came out, I can't remember many characters of any class in 36 level. Most of the princes in Glantri are around level 20. Most of powerful NPCs in various Gaz are also around there in experience. I wouldn't mind the council so much if in previous GAZs there have been more max level characters. Thincol in X10 and Barimoor are the only 2 NPC I can think of off hand that were in 36th level before DotE came out. And in Barimoor's description, Alphatia "only" have hundreds of 36 level wizards. I personally think couple hundreds of 36th level wizards are enough to keep Alphatia powerful enough to amaze the PCs but not quite enough to be unbalancing when compared to rest of the world. For the record, I think 250 36th level mages in Thyatis is also too much. I don't remember how powerful the Honor Island mages are. - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 10:55:58 PDT From: "Spencer Graham" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri >At 22.36 30/05/98 EDT, DM wrote: >We DID take this into account: strange you didn't notice... *malicious hint* >Anyway, we're currently trying to decide in which form Etienne will come >back (mortal/Immortal/questing mortal)... What do you suggest? >DM Immortal....otherwise back history with Radience et al gets really snafu'd Spencer ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:57:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Alex295@aol.com pontificated: >But that is just one scenario presented in MofA for if the PCs fail, then there is no Etienne (mortal or immortal). I thought the 3 possible endings were for Etienne to came back as immortal, mortal who can be immortal again, or mortal with no chance to become immortal again. >BTW- I am always intrigued how Mark of Amber is so well received while the other AD&D Mystara products are shunned. They are all basically reboxes of the Gaz's and X2 with a few tweaks to update them. I didn't like MoA that much, but to me it is better than other box sets because it did introduce something new, like the 2nd generation D'Ambervilles, and flash out the personality of the family members much more. It also uses the CD much better. Instead of speaking for the PCs, it is a aid to enhance the mood of the adventure. - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 09:44:35 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Almanac/Glantri >whom are Mages. Given the attitudes of Jherek's wives towards one another, I would expect Jherek's death to be followed by a few murders within the family, leaving one of Jherek's sons on the throne and Lan-Syn (among others) dead. Well, IIRC the sons don't hate each other (Ralindi even tried to find and rescue Rejladan when he was trapped by Sinaria Verlien). It is conceivable that one brother will rule while the other will simply continue magical research. IMO Rejladan could be a good candidate to continue studying somewhere quietly - and we in fact could have our newest user of the Radiance! (Sinaria trapped him because he had some knowledge of that) ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 13:12:17 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Callarii elves Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: >Interresting that I managed to misspell Calarii.. *blush* Well actually, it's Callarii ;> >Hehey! I think that is a neat idea. I dont realy care much for labeling anyone good or evil, but it would be a nice touch to develope an elven culture with a certain hostile (imperialistic?) attitude. I dont think it would work too good with the Calarri, though, they seem like they are on very friendly terms with the Karameikans.. The way I've handled the situation in Karameikos with the Callarii and the Alfheim elves is that Callarii is having a few problems from their cousins. Callarii are very friendly with the humans of Karameikos compared to the Alfheim elves. It's the Alfheim that have developed a hostile attitude. They're grateful that they were allowed in Karameikos but they felt that it was their right. The Callarii believe they have become like fish and relatives that over stay their welcome and want the Alfheim with their attitudes about how elves should behave out. Instead of accepting the Callarii way of life, the Alfheim have attempted to impose their own. Alfheim elves still shoot on sight if they think they're lands have been invaded as the Callarii have learned not to be so hasty. Callarii also have become upset at Stefan for granting so much land to the Alfheim, some of which they considered theirs. Callarii will join any force prepared to recapture Alfheim just to be rid of their cousins. In AD&D terms, Callarii are high elves and Alfheim elves are grey elves. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 13:55:57 -0500 From: Galwylin Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 16:20:14 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #372 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 90182dd4ca8a6adeab35ad92f92af34f Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Thomas J. Mahaney wrote: >To answer the question ... they wouldn't. I know of very few gamers who would be willing to start over in a new campaign setting once they have invested so heavily in another. The only way this would work would be if new Mystara products were easily translated into FR. In my opinion, if Mystara is to succeed, new products need to be targetted at "old" Mystara players or new gamers. I don't think its an either or situation. New players are mandatory for any campaign setting. I think one of the appeals of Mystara compared to other settings is that its in its 'big transition' phase at the moment. Toril's mighty empires of magic have already been destroyed, Krynn already has suffered a devastating cataclysm (two in fact), Oerth's mightiest kingdom really fell long ago though its still having affect on the era as it continues to disintergrate. Mystara is different as it has just lost one great empire, another is on the verge of collapse (well, it could go either way) and the Heldennics are posed to become the next great empire. So Mystara's era at the moment is one of change. The net almanac reflects this uncertain time. What happens in the next few years could be one of the most unstable eras in the history of the Known World. That's what appeals to me and why WotI was very well accepted by me. It's repercussion should be last lasting and felt. It appeals to me and I think it would appeal to others and its all happening without having a 'great evil' involved. Now THAT is certainly unique! - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 14:04:25 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - To DM Rob wrote: >Hey DM, I'm fascinated. What is so bad about G:KoM? I havnt got the original Glantri gaz so I can't compare it. But IMHO K:KoA is superior to the old Karameikos gaz (Ive got both of those...). Its a reprint with far superior presentation... >And I think that G:KoM is better still. Is the original Glantri gaz that brilliant that it makes G:KoM pale into insignificance? Not to answer for DM but only for myself, I don't think the AD&D sets were bad (even with the CDs). My only problem with them really is that AD&D wasn't intergrated into Mystara. They just said that was the rules now without going into any explaination of how this change affects the Known World (or even better how Mystara changes AD&D). They did go and edit a few things to read better (and probably made a few mistakes). They weren't bad but as you said it really was an improvement on presentation not content. I really did like the presentation though. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 22:17:31 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Almanac/Glantri >Personally, I think Princess Erewan would make a good choice. She's a good lawful >type who'd make fair decisions, plus after what she's been through, she deserves Of course, the problem with Carlotina is that she will likely favor the Erewan elves and pass harsher judgments against her enemies (humanoids, Belcadiz elves, Flaems). ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 22:11:49 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri >BTW- I am always intrigued how Mark of Amber is so well received while the other AD&D Mystara products are shunned. They are all basically reboxes of the >Gaz's and X2 with a few tweaks to update them. Probably because the big boxes contained info that most Mystaran players already had. Actually, I don't shun G:KoM (*ducking as DM swings his fist at me*) - it gives expanded info on the princes and other characters, gives updated information on Glantri, and presents other interesting ideas. Mark of Amber is a very cool adventure, and it deals with a character who is probably liked by many Mystaran fans (admittedly I don't know whether this is true). Oh, and the big boxes contained those ridiculous CDs, while the CD in MoA was very well done. :) ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 22:04:25 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri >I don't know what you're thinking about as the obvious way, but how about getting some Alchemists to make an artificial arm for him? Golem-tech. Cyberwear anyone? That's exactly what I had in mind. Jaggar's buddy Rolf von Graustein is specialized in this sort of stuff. Imagine the surprise of the princes (and the anger of some of them), when Jaggar show up at the Council meeting with a new, shiny, metal arm! ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 15:41:48 -0500 From: "Thomas J. Mahaney" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? I totally agree with you. I should have said "and/or". My point I was trying to make is that a gamer "who has all the Realms stuff" will probably not be interested in Mystara because of the economic and other investements they have already made in FR. >I don't think its an either or situation. New players are mandatory for any campaign setting. I think one of the appeals of Mystara compared to other settings is that its in its 'big transition' phase at the moment. Toril's mighty empires of magic have already been destroyed, Krynn already has suffered a devastating cataclysm (two in fact), Oerth's mightiest kingdom really fell long ago though its still having affect on the era as it continues to disintergrate. Mystara is different as it has just lost one great empire, another is on the verge of collapse (well, it could go either way) and the Heldennics are posed to become the next great empire. So Mystara's era at the moment is one of change. The net almanac reflects this uncertain time. What happens in the next few years could be one of the most unstable eras in the history of the Known World. That's what appeals to me and why WotI was very well accepted by me. It's repercussion should be last lasting and felt. It appeals to me and I think it would appeal to others and its all happening without having a 'great evil' involved. Now THAT is certainly unique! >-- >This has been a Galwylin© Production >galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) >http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ >The Karameikan School of Magecraft >http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. Thomas J. Mahaney II Help Desk Coordinator Office of Information Technologies Lederle Graduate Research Center Lowrise University of Massachuetts Amherst, MA 01003 tmahaney@oit.umass.edu (413) 545-2692 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 15:46:47 -0500 From: "Thomas J. Mahaney" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't It looks like we seem to be getting into a "chicken and egg" argument here. Some, like Inconu, seem to feel that resources were put into FR because it was successful, which caused it to be more successful, etc. Others, like myself, feel that the cycle started with more resources being put into FR right up front. No one is right or wrong. We're just expressing our opinions. >>First of all, TSR put A LOT more resources behind Forgotten Realms, eespecially in >>terms of Novels. Secondly, TSR did a pretty poor job of releasing new material for Mystara after it became an AD&D setting. >Why would you expect TSR to put more resources to a less profitable campaign setting? The reason Forgotten Realms has so many novels, is because of how successful the setting is. It would be foolish to hold back on the resources on that setting for another setting. ><< Most of the products >were rehashes of previously released materials - but at substantially higher prices. Gamers are not dumb, they simply gravitate towards better products and/or marketing, which FR provided. However, I agree with SteelAngel - Mystara is a much more interesting setting.>> >What did you expect TSR to do? Remember they were releasing it as a new campaign setting for the ad&d players. Of course some material would be from previous sources, but they even updated the world so the previous players would get something out of it too. Also, i do agree that Mystara is a much more interesting setting, actually the most interesting setting, which is why...i believe..... most of us are here. >>Perhaps, but I am not one of them. If I want to play an elf in AD&D, I need to figure out: what type of elf, which class/combination of classes, which "kit", etc. I find this waaaay too complicated. If I wanted to play in that detailed a system, I would use Harn. Although OD&D started introducing different types of elves, the situation was never as complex as AD&D. >Well then don't use those options. That's all they are....is options. You don't have to use a kit, pick a type of elf, or be multiclassed....... >-Inconu >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. Thomas J. Mahaney II Help Desk Coordinator Office of Information Technologies Lederle Graduate Research Center Lowrise University of Massachuetts Amherst, MA 01003 tmahaney@oit.umass.edu (413) 545-2692 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 14:31:25 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Almanac George Valencia wrote: >Galwylin, what was Darokin doing in this affair going on in your Game World? At first they entered the affair as part of their nation was being overrun but then I bring the Hulean menace back into the arena so a few hills didn't seem as important. This isn't happening at the moment though. Its just in the planning stages as I begin a huge world war in the Known World. But the purposes is to get Ethengar out west, enlarge Rockhome, collapse Thyatis completely, strengthen the Northern Reaches, unite Karameikos, Darokin and the Five Shires closer, make Glantri more xenophobic and have Ylaruam realize Al-Kalim's (spiritual) dream. Ethengar really is the only nation that is demolished and eventually the elves (Alfheim, Wendar and the Shadow) will be stronger and better united. Thyatis will actually benefit the most from it, I think. Their symbol will be the phoenix after all of this. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 22:01:11 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Immortal Servants I posted two races of Immortal servants earlier today, the Black elves and the White elves. I'd like to hear some comments on these. Do you think the fit with the Mystaran cosmology? Are they too powerful? too weak? I am working on a couple of more creatures which I will post if there is any interest. These are the first Immortal level creatures I have ever made so any comments on the descriptions are welcome. Any suggestions for AD&D statistics? Sincerely, Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 13:17:54 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re:Darokin Boxed Set. >>At 12:20 AM 5/29/98 EDT, you wrote: >>>In a message dated 98-05-28 22:46:41 EDT, galwylin@airnet.net writes: >>>>Mystara may be hard to >>>>give an overall look at but not impossible. >>>It might have worked out better if they had gotten around to producing >>>that boxed set for Darokin -- Darokin, after all, is a centrally located >>>nation that is on moderately good terms with all of its neighbors except >>>the Broken Lands and Hule (which wasn't their neighbor at all until they >>>took over Sind). >>You know, I think you have something here!! Right-o old friend >>I could just imagine the Darokin boxed set with its overview of the major >>nations via the diplomats and merchants. >>And the unique quality of Darokin would have to be a turn on! hell, i'd buy when it first comes out >But of course, someone in WotC/TSR will do something silly and put a CD of the same quality as K:KoA and G:KoM in to the Darokin boxed set. :-) >Please don't get offended by my comment, all you CD fans out there. It was >meant as a light hearted joke. >Signed, Thrydmon the Wanderer, humble mage of Karameikos If the cd is to give informations like the Red Steel CD, Track 3 & 4, as well as add music to a campaign then i'm all for it. if not, then it's curio for my collection. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #372 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, June 1 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 373 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - SaveMystara Posting Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Immortal Servants Re: [MYSTARA] - To DM Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Immortal Servants Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Immortal Servants [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? [MYSTARA] - Why the Council of Alphatia is reasonable [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA RISING! (and i mean it!) Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? [MYSTARA] - Mystara Online Web-Almanac Update Re: [MYSTARA] - Why the Council of Alphatia is reasonable Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Immortal Servants Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 16:31:59 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - SaveMystara Posting Well, I've added my sentiments to the growing tide of Mystaran fandom on the SaveMystara page. Is anyone else going to share their thoughts? Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 16:28:08 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Immortal Servants Haavard said: >I posted two races of Immortal servants earlier today, the Black elves and the White elves. I'd like to hear some comments on these. Do you think the fit with the Mystaran cosmology? Are they too powerful? too weak? I am working on a couple of more creatures which I will post if there is any interest. These are the first Immortal level creatures I have ever made so any comments on the descriptions are welcome. Any suggestions for AD&D statistics? While I have only had time to go over them briefly, from what I can see I don't think that these guys would unbalance things in any real way. Both seem to counter the other perfectly at a glance. I like the way that you tied in the moulder dwarves, though, as an answer to the question of what happened to those dark elves who helped them create those evil artifacts. Very interesting! I shall study them in more detail before I say any more... Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 20:39:36 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - To DM At 18.01 01/06/98 +0100, Rob wrote: I'm not DM, but I share his opinion on G:KoM, K:KoA and the Survival Guides. >Hey DM, I'm fascinated. What is so bad about G:KoM? I havnt got the original Glantri gaz so I can't compare it. But IMHO K:KoA is superior to the old Karameikos gaz (Ive got both of those...). Its a reprint with far superior presentation... This is exactly the point IMO. I have K:KoA and GAZ 1 too, last november DM was by me and we compared those two: K:KoA has certainly superior graphics and nicer art, but it's just a reprint with updated info, a CD (I've not listened to it yet, so I've no opinion), an updated map and some handouts. IMO it costs too much for new gamers and it's not very attractive to old timers, who already own the Gaz. >And I think that G:KoM is better still. Is the original Glantri gaz that brilliant that it makes G:KoM pale into insignificance? "Unfortunately" I don't have G:KoM, because DM forbade me to buy it ;-) Anyway the only reason I would consider buying it's the updated map. Just my opinion. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 20:25:59 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri At 18.35 01/06/98 +0200, Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: >I prefer Etienne back as normal. The default should be that the heroes succeed. You mean complete success, don't you? >This leaves Game Masters the opportunity of having Etienne returning as a mortal in 1012 and gaining Immortality in the following years, getting back into Almanac schedule. This is one of the reasons we had Etienne keep a low profile. >Etienne is far too interesting >to be left just another mortal wizard anyway. He would probably quickly gain immortality with the help of Rafiel anyway, True. This is another option we considered. >but that would make him >an Initiate, and I dont want to see that happen. If so, he should find some way to quickly gain a few levels. (please dont put him into a mega-dungeon for Immortals..) Mega-dungeon for Immortals... mmmh... interesting ;-) - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 15:48:05 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Thomas J. Mahaney wrote: >It looks like we seem to be getting into a "chicken and egg" argument here. Some, like Inconu, seem to feel that resources were put into FR because it was successful, which caused it to be more successful, etc. Others, like myself, feel that the cycle started with more resources being put into FR right up front. No one is right or wrong. We're just expressing our opinions. Possibly. If I remember my Realmslore correctly though, the Realms were DRAGON articles at first with Ed Greenwood giving small amounts of information over time. Apparently, his setting caught the eye of TSR as they were looking to expand and bought the rights to it. So, just looking at TSR's involvement with the Realms, they did put alot behind it from the start. Things might have been different if Mystara was already an AD&D setting. oD&D held it back long enough for the Realms to catch on though. I guess Mystara is doomed to be a Johnny-come-lately But the biggest lesson is that putting 'something' out there for people to see helps. While Mystara is an old setting, its not in the public eye and we all should be looking for ways to put it there. The tricky part is putting information about Mystara out there that is easily used by other settings. Hard but not impossible. For example, I've seen placing Glantri City in Greyhawk being discussed on lists. We've already have Bruce's rakasta article (and lupin though I can't find it yet). I'm currently working on the Karameikan School of Magecraft and the Order of the Griffin as possible articles. I hope my writing ability does them justice and make them acceptable to DRAGON. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 15:52:31 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Immortal Servants Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: >I posted two races of Immortal servants earlier today, the Black elves and the White elves. I'd like to hear some comments on these. Do you think the fit with the Mystaran cosmology? Are they too powerful? too weak? I am working on a couple of more creatures which I will post if there is any interest. These are the first Immortal level creatures I have ever made so any comments on the descriptions are welcome. Any suggestions for AD&D statistics? Håvard I haven't had a chance to thoroughly read them but I really like the idea behind them. I had been doing some research on the folklore of elves and found some that are very much like this. I assume they are based on Norse myth? One of my goals in expanding the Northern Reaches and the Elven Kingdoms borders were to allow them to be adjacent for just this purpose. On that, I think its very good work! - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 17:01:30 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Immortal Servants At 10:01 PM 6/1/98 +0200, Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: II posted two races of Immortal servants earlier today, the Black elves and the White elves. I really enjoyed your writeup and would like to see more. Have you put these two fellows on a website perchance? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 17:06:14 -0400 From: Daly Subject: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? At 11:41 AM 6/1/98 -0500, Thomas J. Mahaney wrote: TTo answer the question ... they wouldn't. I know of very few gamers who would be willing to start over in a new campaign setting once they have invested so heavily in another. But does it have to be so cut and dry? A player who wishes to do some DMing might be directed by the current DM to a new setting. This avoids "giving away the big secrets". Also, anyone who runs Spelljammer campaigns will certainly want as many detailed settings as possible. Probably the same with Planescape campaigns... The only way this would work would be if nnew Mystara products were easily translated into FR. In my opinion, if Mystara is to succeed, new products need to be targetted at "old" Mystara players or new gamers. This is a good point. Does anyone have any major problems with making Mystara material adaptable to other games? I thought a good job of this was done in the gazetteers...including suggested areas to place such nations as Darokin and Ylaruam... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 22:11:42 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? - - >I don't think its an either or situation. New players are mandatory for any campaign setting. I think one of the appeals of Mystara compared to other settings is that its in its 'big transition' phase at the moment. Toril's mighty empires of magic have already been destroyed, Krynn already has suffered a devastating cataclysm (two in fact), Oerth's mightiest kingdom really fell long ago though its still having affect on the era as it continues to disintergrate. Mystara is different as it has just lost one great empire, another is on the verge of collapse (well, it could go either way) and the Heldennics are posed to become the next great empire. So Mystara's era at the moment is one of change. The net almanac reflects this uncertain time. What happens in the next few years could be one of the most unstable eras in the history of the Known World. That's what appeals to me and why WotI was very well accepted by me. It's repercussion should be last lasting and felt. It appeals to me and I think it would appeal to others and its all happening without having a 'great evil' involved. Now THAT is certainly unique! Yep, thats what sets Mystara apart. The nations. Ive played the FR quite a bit, and nations were very much background, not the campaign at all. In Mystara the actions of nations are more in the forefront, and more realistic. Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 17:13:04 -0400 From: Daly Subject: [MYSTARA] - Why the Council of Alphatia is reasonable At 11:09 AM 6/1/98 EDT, Alex295@aol.com wrote: IIn a message dated 98-05-31 14:44:36 EDT, John Yu writes: ><< Couple more possible reason on why Alphatia's mages doesn't take over the wworld. >1. There was a discussion a while ago on perhaps the Alphatia's council don't have nearly as many 1000 max level mages. Perhaps at one time but not now.>> >Well from what I remember of that discussion, that theory was pretty much dispelled. Not only is the Grand Council "canon" (how I hate to use the term), >but it is also possible. Thyatis has its 250 Wizards of Sclaras (sp). Ierendi has its Honor Island with its mages. And you have Glantri and all of its mages. Honor Island should be pointed to especially since all of its human inhabitants are mages. >>Much snipping and rejoicing<< I agree with Alex as to why the 36th level Council is not only possible but necessary. But here is an angle that hasn't been explored thoroughly (although Alex did touch on it), the size of the empire. Has anyone realized just how monstrously huge Alphatia is? Compared with the average nations of Mystara and the Forgotten Realms, Alphatia easily dwarfs all other countries. By my reckoning, Cormyr is about the size of the Known World countries. A single kingdom of Alphatia is comparable. Now consider the size of the Alphatian continent alone...now add Belissaria and the outlying provinces... Alphatia is HUGE. Possibly comparable to Shou Lung and Zakhara (I don't really know). But it certainly stands among the largest of countries. Now, some seem to equate this size with power and the ability to gain more. I see it instead as a nightmare to manage...the mages are largely apolitical and probably see the current size as an extreme irritation. Any emperor or king foolish enough to get into a war with the purpose of acquiring more territory is likely to receive the disapproval of the major mages of Alphatia. There are certainly powermongers among them...but I think the character and size of Alphatia is a limiting factor in itself. Even before WotI it was not questioned that Alphatia would win an all out struggle. But the cost of such a war both in terms of economy and life is a fair deterrent. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 18:14:26 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #373 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 4c6504b1b74593d528d5fbe922c977bc 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 17:14:53 -0400 From: Daly Subject: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA RISING! (and i mean it!) At 05:57 PM 6/1/98 +0200, DM wrote: >Jeff Daly wrote: ><> >Yeah, i'm shocked to hear this from you! ;) How come I get the feeling you are laughing at me? :) In a nice way of course... >But i infer you're frantically working behind the scenes to set the organization into motion and make it function like a swiss clockwork! :) Possibly with more of an appearance of Swiss cheese at the moment...but the real trick will be getting the disparate elements functioning at the proper time... The petition letter goes out tonight! ><> >Well, please, do it after the first half of July, when i'll be finally free from university stuff and i'll be able to dedicate to Mystara much more hours a day ;) Can you make it to GenCon? Anyone? >As for what Galwylin said about Mystara setting not being introduced as a whole, i agree with him. Rules Cyclopaedia was a damn good supplement because it rehashed the OD&D rules and detailed Mystara campaign enough to make it useful and comprehensible to every DM! If TSR really wanted to convert Mystara to AD&D they should have come up with something similar to Rules Cyclopaedia (or Hollow World..). I agree too. I would like to see one general overview of the Known World with something like an "Other regions" section that would make shorter comments on places like Alphatia and the Savage Coast. >>Yeah, but this doesn't change the current situation: no current TSR employee has ever come neither to the MML, and as far as i know (i admit i am not an habitué of the MMB), nor to the MMB. Which means they are still ignoring us. ><> >Wow! That sounds really great ! ;) Thanks. >>It may be only a question of time before they reopen Mystara, i hope so, but then again the problem is, as you pointed out, how will this new Mystara look like? Frankly i didn't like the AD&D version, so i am not so sure i would buy new products if they looked that way.. ><> >Well, now you've given me a bit more hope (i'm not joking here). Thanx Jeff! And don't forget us of the MML if you'll ever be able to climb up the ladder of TSR burocracy.. ;) Are you kidding? Eventually we'll all be speaking Mystaran Common... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 22:27:19 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't - ----->there. The tricky part is putting information about Mystara out there tthat is easily used by other settings. Hard but not impossible. For example, I've seen placing Glantri City in Greyhawk being discussed on lists. We've already have Bruce's rakasta article (and lupin though I can't find it yet). I'm currently working on the Karameikan School of Magecraft and the Order of the Griffin as possible articles. I hope my writing ability does them justice and make them acceptable to DRAGON. No Way. Put Glantri City in Greyhawk?? That would suck beyond belief. I think D+D held Mystara back. All my friends just skipped over all the D+D articles that were ever printed in Dragon and Dungeon. So did everyone else probably. Its the "baby game" image that D+D has. (ill founded or not). Thats why I reckon Mystara MUST get as uptodate ASAP. Bring on 3rd edition, and embrace it...Its not every year they bring out a new edition. Mystara MUST get on the bandwagon here. Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 22:41:15 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? >This is a good point. Does anyone have any major problems with making Mystara material adaptable to other games? I thought a good job of this was done in the gazetteers...including suggested areas to place such nations as Darokin and Ylaruam... Nooo. What makes Mystara good is the relationship between those nations. If u just cut and paste Mystaran stuff over it would lose its charm. (I for one would ignore any stuff they brought out for it...) Plus, if they do that u can forget bona fide Mystara. I'd rather they left it alone, rather than steal all the coolness from Mystara and inject it into some other naff world (imagine Alphatia in the Realms... *cringe*) A compromise could be having the planet Mystara nearby some other world, with Spelljammer contact between the two worlds... I dont know... (Im not up for this!!!). I returned to Mystara because around here we all take DMing in turns, each with a different campaign world. We play Greyhawk, FR, Ravenloft, Planescape and Spelljammer... When I wanted to run, one of my friends (who buys all AD+D stuff on principle, even Dark Sun) showed me G:KoM. And that made me dig out my old gazetteers, and things snowballed from there... So, if any business analysts out there want to recommend some marketing strategy based on that gem of information... :) Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 14:39:20 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Online Web-Almanac Update Mystara Onlines Net Almanac Update Geography Section 98% Complete Miscellenia 100% Complete Year in Review 50% Complete Whole Web Site will completed by Thursday June 4th ON sidenote, I wish to inform the MML, that i will be on Assignment for two to three Weeks, so i will being unsubscibing for the duration of that time, if you wish to E-Mail, address is above this message, Thank you and keep Mystara alive. I take life with a grain of salt...a slice of lemon, and a shot tequila. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 22:51:32 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why the Council of Alphatia is reasonable >Has anyone realized just how monstrously huge Alphatia is? Compared with the average nations of Mystara and the Forgotten Realms, Alphatia easily dwarfs all other countries. By my reckoning, Cormyr is about the size of the Known World countries. A single kingdom of Alphatia is comparable. Now consider the size of the Alphatian continent alone...now add Belissaria and the outlying provinces... >Alphatia is HUGE. Possibly comparable to Shou Lung and Zakhara (I don't really know). But it certainly stands among the largest of countries. >Now, some seem to equate this size with power and the ability to gain more. II see it instead as a nightmare to manage...the mages are largely apolitical and probably see the current size as an extreme irritation. >Any emperor or king foolish enough to get into a war with the purpose of acquiring more territory is likely to receive the disapproval of the major mages of Alphatia. There are certainly powermongers among them...but I think the character and size of Alphatia is a limiting factor in itself. >Even before WotI it was not questioned that Alphatia would win an all out struggle. But the cost of such a war both in terms of economy and life is a fair deterrent. I know how big Alphatia is. I tried to use this to justify the number of mages there. Translating it over, Specularum would have 10 36th level wizards there. I assume that Spec. is a fairly standard fantasy city - that seems like many wizards per person tho... (Admittedly I ignored the Alphatian colonies - but they only account for another third, roughly. So 7 wizards in Spec.). Thats a lot of wizards. The Realms Truly Pales compared to that. Netheril probably is comparable - and Netheril is gross. Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 16:57:48 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Daly wrote: >A player who wishes to do some DMing might be directed by the current DM to a new setting. This avoids "giving away the big secrets". Also, anyone who runs Spelljammer campaigns will certainly want as many detailed settings as possible. Probably the same with Planescape campaigns... Jeff, that brings another problem to mind. Just how does Mystara interact with Spelljammer or Planescape? From what I've heard, most want it to stay as far away from those as possible. While it may benefit Mystara, it certainly makes me wonder if fans of Spelljammer and Planescape want to mess with a setting that is cut off from them. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 23:59:14 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri On Mon, 1 Jun 1998, Aleksei Andrievski wrote: >>I don't know what you're thinking about as the obvious way, but how about getting some Alchemists to make an artificial arm for him? Golem-tech. Cyberwear anyone? >That's exactly what I had in mind. Jaggar's buddy Rolf von Graustein is specialized in this sort of stuff. Imagine the surprise of the princes (and the anger of some of them), when Jaggar show up at the Council meeting with a new, shiny, metal arm! Don't forget the mirror shades and the mohawk. ;) No seriously, I love the idea of Jaggar going cybernetic. With his laserpistol and all. Wild! Just as Mystara should be. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 00:04:46 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri On Mon, 1 Jun 1998, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: >At 18.35 01/06/98 +0200, Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: >>I prefer Etienne back as normal. The default should be that the heroes succeed. >You mean complete success, don't you? Yes. As I see it this is the result that has the greatest potential. I don't see much fun in making Rad a new Initiate. >>This leaves Game Masters the opportunity of having Etienne returning as a mortal in 1012 and gaining Immortality in the following years, getting back into Almanac schedule. >This is one of the reasons we had Etienne keep a low profile. Thought so. :) >>Etienne is far too interesting >>to be left just another mortal wizard anyway. He would probably quickly gain immortality with the help of Rafiel anyway, >True. This is another option we considered. Well, this has some potential. Forging the tie between Rad and Rafiel even closer. BTW, I wonder what Rad will think about the altered radience. Maybe he will seek to destroy it since it has been corrupted. But how to do that without destroying Glantri? (Glantri into HW? nah..) >>but that would make him >>an Initiate, and I dont want to see that happen. If so, he should find some way to quickly gain a few levels. (please dont put him into a mega-dungeon for Immortals..) >Mega-dungeon for Immortals... mmmh... interesting ;-) Please no! :) Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 00:11:54 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Immortal Servants On Mon, 1 Jun 1998, Galwylin wrote: >I haven't had a chance to thoroughly read them but I really like the idea behind them. I had been doing some research on the folklore of elves and found some that are very much like this. I assume they are based on Norse myth? One of my goals in expanding the Northern Reaches and the Elven Kingdoms borders were to allow them to be adjacent for just this purpose. On that, I think its very good work! Thanks! I've tried to keep them close to Norse Mythology to preserve the "feel" from the Northern Reaches Gaz. The information on elves in Norse Mythology is pretty vague though, and contradicts itself all the time. Dwarves are considered to be dark elves in some sources. I've picked what I liked and added a few details on my own which I thought fit in. Your campaign sounds quite interesting. Will any of this be incorporated into the Almanac? Sincerely, Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 00:07:00 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't On Mon, 1 Jun 1998, Galwylin was pondering on writing Mystara articles for Dragon... Go for it Galwylin! :) Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #373 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, June 1 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 374 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why the Council of Alphatia is reasonable Re: [MYSTARA] - Why the Council of Alphatia is reasonable Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] a trivial matter in the NR Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - Thoughts on the 'Saving of Mystara' [LONG] Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA RISING! (and i mean it!) Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Immortal Servants Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] a trivial matter in the NR Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] a trivial matter in the NR Re: [MYSTARA] - Thoughts on the 'Saving of Mystara' [LONG] Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] a trivial matter in the NR Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] a trivial matter in the NR Re: [MYSTARA] - Why the Council of Alphatia is reasonable Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Immortal Servants: Black Elf [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Immortal Servants [MYSTARA] - The size of Alphatia RE: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Immortal Servant: White Elf ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 17:17:01 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why the Council of Alphatia is reasonable Daly wrote: >I agree with Alex as to why the 36th level Council is not only possible but necessary. I agree also. Reasons of why later ;) >Has anyone realized just how monstrously huge Alphatia is? Compared with the average nations of Mystara and the Forgotten Realms, Alphatia easily dwarfs all other countries. By my reckoning, Cormyr is about the size of the Known World countries. A single kingdom of Alphatia is comparable. Now consider the size of the Alphatian continent alone...now add Belissaria and the outlying provinces... Looking at the map in WotI, I was surely struck by its size. The continent alone is a behemoth. >Now, some seem to equate this size with power and the ability to gain more. II see it instead as a nightmare to manage...the mages are largely apolitical and probably see the current size as an extreme irritation. >Any emperor or king foolish enough to get into a war with the purpose of acquiring more territory is likely to receive the disapproval of the major mages of Alphatia. There are certainly powermongers among them...but I think the character and size of Alphatia is a limiting factor in itself. Okay, I look at differently. To me, the mages are very political. Just from Terari's background, I got the feeling that expansion is met with favor (more! more! more!) but defeat is a political death knell which is what happened to Terari. While Alphatia is unsurpassed in spell power, its military is the same or lower than other nations. The reasons why is because of the rule of mages. Physical might is low on the lists of ability for them and a nation gets its inspiration from its leaders. A great military general is going to have a much harder time getting the ruling body to understand his reasonings and if the general is a mage, magic use will be what he sees as the might of the army. To me, that can be the only reason a small empire like Thyatis has stood against them so long. They brought a combination of magic and strength to the fight where Alphatia was lacking in strength. Mages would have a easy time of ruling (after all, they're told they are the best kind of people) and have a terrible time becoming a true war wizard which Thyatis held sway in. So, I think Alphatia was managed well by a large council but completely lost touch when facing someone with weapons. Its like why build a house when magic can do it. Eventually, you forget how to build a house by hand. Add to the fact you've never built one and I could see a reasonable explaination why Alphatia didn't expand as much as it could have. Perhaps the resistance in the areas they did expand weren't superior at anything. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 00:22:08 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why the Council of Alphatia is reasonable On Mon, 1 Jun 1998, Rob wrote: >I know how big Alphatia is. I tried to use this to justify the number of mages there. Translating it over, Specularum would have 10 36th level wizards there. I assume that Spec. is a fairly standard fantasy city - that seems like many wizards per person tho... Way too many. Keep in mind that Alphatia should have more mages per person than any other nation because of its long tradition of magic and the fact that it is a magocracy. Karameikos OTOH is really low on magic, at least in AC1000. Teldon is 15th level, according to Gaz1. He would be one of the most powerful mages in all Karameikos at the time. There has probably been an increase in later years, especially after the construction of the School of Magecraft. Terari is now the most powerful mage, and there could be a few more really high level mages around, though I should think most new mages are low level students of the School. >(Admittedly I ignored the Alphatian colonies - but they only account for another third, roughly. So 7 wizards in Spec.). >Thats a lot of wizards. The Realms Truly Pales compared to that. Netheril probably is comparable - and Netheril is gross. Well, lets find some FR fans and tell them how our mages are more powerful than theirs ;) Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 17:26:17 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Rob wrote: >No Way. Put Glantri City in Greyhawk?? That would suck beyond belief. Well, I wasn't crazy about the idea but I was glad to see parts of Mystara finding use elsewhere. It gave me hope that it may catch others eyes somehow. >I think D+D held Mystara back. All my friends just skipped over all the D+D articles that were ever printed in Dragon and Dungeon. So did everyone else probably. Its the "baby game" image that D+D has. (ill founded or not). I agree. oD&D was saddle with the 'beginners' system the moment AD&D arrived. Why play D&D when ADVANCED D&D is available unless you're slow? No matter the improvements it made, it could never pass something called advance to any casual glancer. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 00:30:14 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] a trivial matter in the NR Take a look at the cover of the NR gazatteer. Looks nice, right? Vikings never had horns on their helmets though. Thats because horns on your helmet actually makes you easier to hit. The purpose of a helmet is to divert the weapon of the attacker. The Vikings knew this and since they were pretty realistic when it came to warfare, they did not attach these things to their headgear. The Celts OTOH did use horned helmets. They cared more about looking good (intimidating) than actually surviving the battle. Still, horned helmets are pretty cool. Do the Norsemen have horned helmets in your campaigns? I've been wondering about whether I should use this stuff IMC or stay with what was found in the real world. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 17:32:50 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Rob wrote: >Nooo. What makes Mystara good is the relationship between those nations. If u just cut and paste Mystaran stuff over it would lose its charm. (I for one would ignore any stuff they brought out for it...) Plus, if they do that u can forget bona fide Mystara. I'd rather they left it alone, rather than steal all the coolness from Mystara and inject it into some other naff world (imagine Alphatia in the Realms... *cringe*) I'm not against it at all. Not that it be done 'officially' but if they made parts of Mystara as their Odyssey line I would count that as a win for us ;) BTW, for Alphatia in the Realms... check the Netheril: Empire of Magic box. I think the concept has already arrived. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 00:43:55 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thoughts on the 'Saving of Mystara' [LONG] On Sun, 31 May 1998, Jenni A. M. Merrifield wrote: >At 01:56 PM 5/31/98 -0700, Jenni A. M. Merrifield wrote: ----------------------------------- >>THOUGHTS ON THE SAVING OF MYSTARA >>--------------------------------- >Erk. I hate mail programs that don't have spell checkers. :-I I'm embarassed about the number of significant spelling and grammatical errors that leaked into the text of my message, even after I read it through once to proofread and correct. >I am particularily amazed that I managed to spell 'igniting' as 'ignighting'. >I'm sure /that's/ going to impress WotC/TSR to no end. [NOT] *sigh*. Well, Jenni, I still found what you wrote very interesting. And inspiring! A few things: 1) I was recently subscribed to the InNomine mailinglist which is maintained by SJGames. Steve Jackson et co use this list to get ideas and are willing to buy ideas that come up on the list by non-employees. No reason why WotI can't do the same. I would love to see some of the stuff in the Almanacs become official. 2) Genders. I think TSR saw this as a difficult issue and generally left it alone. Gender roles are important. I dont think we should impose equality between the sexes where that is not appropriate. (Not sure if that is what you are suggesting, but I still feel a need to adress it) Glantri seems to have no restrictions on sex since what is important is magical ability. The same goes for Alphatia. Women have an important role in the Northern reaches where women are heads of the hourseholds when the husband is away and are in charge of the economy and other domestic areas. Female warriors are not common, but exist. In Ylaruam and Thyatis women are not allowed to become 'adventurers'. among the Demihumans there seems to be a more liberal attitude to gender roles. I think the five shires are more traditional. (Wife making food and washing while the husband does other things) but this is after Yallaren. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 17:22:05 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA RISING! (and i mean it!) Daly wrote: >Can you make it to GenCon? Anyone? I'm hoping to make it this year. Time isn't the problem as much as money. >I agree too. I would like to see one general overview of the Known World with something like an "Other regions" section that would make shorter comments on places like Alphatia and the Savage Coast. Just a comment on the section on Alphatia. I love the fact of floating islands sitting over the ocean alone. It really captures the image of fantasy for me so I'd probably hope Alphatia is sunk. I also hope that NACE goes the way of Nithia. I really like those isolated areas of the remains of Alphatia to be independent of any government other than their own. >Are you kidding? Eventually we'll all be speaking Mystaran Common... Hey! What about the alignment languages? ;> - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 18:05:34 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Immortal Servants Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: >Thanks! >I've tried to keep them close to Norse Mythology to preserve the "feel" from the Northern Reaches Gaz. The information on elves in Norse Mythology is pretty vague though, and contradicts itself all the time. Dwarves are considered to be dark elves in some sources. I've picked what I liked and added a few details on my own which I thought fit in. Looked like you did a good job. ;D >Your campaign sounds quite interesting. Will any of this be incorporated into the Almanac? Well, I'm a war-monger I always seem to find the areas of a setting where tension is high. Just a little nudge which I try to provide. I don't know if it will make it into the Almanac as my ideas aren't productive to stability. They usually throw out what stability there is and cause map makers all kinds of headaches ;> - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 18:13:06 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] a trivial matter in the NR Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: >Take a look at the cover of the NR gazatteer. Looks nice, right? Vikings never had horns on their helmets though. Thats because horns on your helmet actually makes you easier to hit. The purpose of a helmet is to divert the weapon of the attacker. The Vikings knew this and since they were pretty realistic when it came to warfare, they did not attach these things to their headgear. The Celts OTOH did use horned helmets. They cared more about looking good (intimidating) than actually surviving the battle. Still, horned helmets are pretty cool. Do the Norsemen have horned helmets in your campaigns? I've been wondering about whether I should use this stuff IMC or stay with what was found in the real world. Horns? No way. They have wings like that comic book Thor ;D I'd use the decorative helmets just for special occasions. If you also notice on that cover a warrior woman is wearing little armor (or clothing) but a fur cloak. Made me think it was cold but she spend all her time in a hot spring or sang opera ;> On a side note, what do people think of Ierendi losing its Hawaii aspect and go for the Celtic traditions of Britian? I want Celts somewhere but don't find many suitable spots. The Isle of Dawn perhaps? - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 19:39:11 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 21:21:07 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #374 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 42e657812b1737502673586e5841973d On Mon, 1 Jun 1998, [iso-8859-1] Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: >No seriously, I love the idea of Jaggar going cybernetic. With his laserpistol and all. Wild! Just as Mystara should be. Agh! Shades of Blacklore! Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 19:43:15 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] a trivial matter in the NR On Mon, 1 Jun 1998, Galwylin wrote: >On a side note, what do people think of Ierendi losing its Hawaii aspect and go for the Celtic traditions of Britian? I want Celts somewhere but don't find many suitable spots. The Isle of Dawn perhaps? That would be the single wierdest change in the history of Mystara. I have a very celtic flair going on down in Vulcania. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 16:46:34 -0700 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thoughts on the 'Saving of Mystara' [LONG] Håvard: At 12:43 AM 6/2/98 +0200, Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: WWell, Jenni, >I still found what you wrote very interesting. And inspiring! Glad it did :-) I just hope that WotC/TSR finds it as inspiring (if anyone from there actually checks out our little archive site) >A few things: >[...snip...] >2) Genders. I think TSR saw this as a difficult issue and generally left it alone. Gender roles are important. I dont think we should impose equality between the sexes where that is not appropriate. (Not sure if that is what you are suggesting, but I still feel a need to adress it) That's not exactly what I was getting at, but you do have some valid points about gender roles in general. What I was commenting on in my 'aside' was that I had noticed that the 'Intro to AD&D' boxed set came with plastic figures and statistic cards for six 'starter' characters and each one of them were male -- one each of the 'common' race/class combinations: Human Mage, Human Thief, Human Fighter, Human Cleric, Dwarf Fighter, Elf F/M. I would liked to have seen the set contain one of the following two options: 1. At least two of the six characters presented as female. 2. Provision of an additional set of six female characters of the same race/classes. In the first case, there is no additional cost to making the set but there could be a problem when a group of new players is all or mostly male - -- I could easily see some young boys refusing to play 'a girl'. (Note, however, that in the existing scenario any girl in the group is likely to be forced to play as a male, regardless of her wishes.) In the second case, there would be additional costs to create the plastic figures and statistic cards for the additional characters. However, by instructing the beginner DM to play with no more than six PC's in a group that contains no more than one of each race/class combination (of either gender), both single and mixed gender groups are better "covered". Is that a bit clearer? Jenni - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield http://www.jamm.com/jenni/home.html - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- strawberry@jamm.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 19:15:08 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] a trivial matter in the NR SteelAngel wrote: >That would be the single wierdest change in the history of Mystara. >I have a very celtic flair going on down in Vulcania. Oh, I dunno. A little plague that wipes out the friendly natives leaving only the strongest members of the Ierendi nation. Carry the love of adventure and competition a little farther and you'd have a group of screaming, half clothed warriors ;) - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 20:29:20 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] a trivial matter in the NR >On Mon, 1 Jun 1998, Galwylin wrote: >>On a side note, what do people think of Ierendi losing its Hawaii aspect and go for the Celtic traditions of Britian? I want Celts somewhere but don't find many suitable spots. The Isle of Dawn perhaps? SteelAngel wrote: >That would be the single wierdest change in the history of Mystara. >I have a very celtic flair going on down in Vulcania. That would be weird, but we've already got Celtic-type people on Mystara: the people of Robrenn (actually they're Gauls, IMO, but IIRC Gauls were related to Celts, and there were of course Celtic lands such as Brittany and so forth), as well as the Hinterlanders. You've also got Scottish/Celtic-type place names in the Grand Duchy of Westrourke on the IoD. Hmm...SteelAngel, why not share what you're developing in Vulcania. As Davania developer for the Almanac I'd be interested... ;) Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 17:31:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Dominique Rivard Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why the Council of Alphatia is reasonable - ---Rob wrote: >I know how big Alphatia is. I tried to use this to justify the number of >mages there. Translating it over, Specularum would have 10 36th level wizards there. I assume that Spec. is a fairly standard fantasy city - >that seems like many wizards per person tho... ((Admittedly I ignored the Alphatian colonies - but they only account for >another third, roughly. So 7 wizards in Spec.). One must remember the origine of the empire of Alphatia, a civilisation so advanced and powerful with magic that it had conquered all of it's homeplane and filled entire space with breathable air... These are the people who "landed" on Mystara... at least some of them. They DO have a BIG advantage on every other civilizations on Mystara. And, IIRC Alphatians really have "magic in their blood". Even if this is fading, this makes a population with a far better magic-user potential. Moreover, "common" magical knowledge is almost everywhere. And 36th level mage don't tend to die of old age; this helps growing their ranks. And the more you have powerful MU, the more it's difficult to attain immortality following the prefered path for MU, that is, Parangon (try to become the most powerful MU within 100 miles on the Alphatian continent, or begin to brawl them to prove your superiority). I don't think Karameikos (or any other nation) can be compared with Alphatia for what it is because of it's history. == - -------------------------------------------- Tharquil's French D&D Homepage at http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/5201 _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 20:40:58 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Immortal Servants: Black Elf I'm going to go through this bit by bit: >Black elves, also referred to as Dark elves or Dock-alfar/svartalfar, are White Elves who were corrupted by the secret whispers of Loki. They now live on Lokis Homeplane Svartalfheim. The Black elves are pale vampire like elves with black or red hair. They are always surrounded by unnatural shadows, obscuring their figures. Black Elves make no sound when moving. When they speak it sound like they are whispering. Neat. IYO, when would the first svartalfar have been won over by Loki's whispered promises? I'm asking in terms of Mystaran history. Also, because of the ahadows constantly flickering about them, what sort of penalties would one have to hit them (I should think that the shadows would be highly disturbing to watch...maybe a save vs. Paralysis or be spellbound?) >The Black elves have had some contact with the Moulder Dwarves of the Northern Reaches, and have taught these dwarves secret magical rituals. Many Moulder Dwarves are puppets of Black elf plots. Black elves are motivated my greed for power and magic and are creatures of deception rather than violence. They are not brave and will rather flee than risk serious injury. Another question - you mention some places where Alfheim has gateways to the Prime (elven nations). What about Svartalfheim? IYO, where would some likely gates be located? Already GAZ 7 suggests one or two in the Northern Reaches area, and I think a place like Denagoth might have one, too. Maybe one to the Schattenalfen caverns? These guys would make great commanders in a demonic army! I could see the Shadowlord hiring a couple as advisors in conducting his wars against Wendar. This leads to another question - while the white elves are well-disposed towards "normal" elves, how do svartalfar treat their mortal brethren? Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 17:44:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Dominique Rivard Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Immortal Servants Very good job done here Haavard! Thumb's up! IMHO it's really a good thing to have both of them strong as Screaming Fiends (the standard trooper of Entropy ;o). Even more if they are legions *and* interacting with mortal's destiny. Another good thing, always IMHO is that you detailed things that were only put as notes in that GAZ. Thinking about giving life to other immortals from the norse pantheon? == - -------------------------------------------- Tharquil's French D&D Homepage at http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/5201 _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 18:04:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Dominique Rivard Subject: [MYSTARA] - The size of Alphatia And then you got this coming down on Mystara! At least a part of it(much more organised than the Fleams were anyway; it's them who created the portals to Mystara). With such a magic power, Alphatia quickly colonize Bellissaria (mainly kings who don't want to be part of court's intrigues) and then Esterhold 800 years after (want more slaves). Now you got the empire almost at it's today. The other colonies are not part of an amazing effort of colonization, probably because it is not needed. Exception: THYATIS. But TSR's staff manage to find many explainations for that... So that's for the size of Alphatia. Why don't they have colonized Brun? Well, IMO a new nation try to expand on land before to go at sea (at least that's how I see Alphatians). So, if you take a look at their "landfall", it's im the west, leaving most of the eastern land to colonize. When most land is colonized on the Alphatian continent, they continue their efforts where their armies are, on the east coast, and welcome to Bellissaria. A small group also take the Isle of Dawn, probably the one who finished to colonized to north-west Alphatia. Now we have the empire extended and thinking of conquering other land is not realistic. The economics of the empire are not as much based upon conquest as are the Thyatians but on commerce and with a size like that, the empire have developped mostly an autonomous economy. That could explain why their's so much mysteries about the great empire of the East. == ____________________________________________ Tharquil's French D&D Homepage at http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/5201 _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 22:01:52 -0300 From: "Leibiusky" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Immortal Servant: White Elf This is very intresting!!! - ---------- >De: mystara-l@MPGN.COM >A: Edu >Asunto: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Immortal Servant: White Elf Fecha: Lunes 1 de Junio de 1998 2:35 PM >Elf, White >Sphere: Energy >Status: Exalted >Power Points: 100 >Anti-Magic: 25:% >Armor Class: 0 >Hit Dice: 10********* >Hit Points: 50 >Move: 120’ (40’) >Attacks: One Weapon (Spear, sword, battleaxe, short bow, long bow) Damage: by weapon >No. Appearing: 1 (1d3) >Save As: IM1 >Morale: Special >Intelligence: 1d8+17 >Treasure Type: D >Alignment: Neutral (in AD&D: Any non-evil) XP Value: 8,500 (0 PP) >White Elves, also called Ljosalfar or High elves live on an outer plane called Alfheim. When Ordana created the elves of Mystara, Odin helped her What other cities of elves there are in Mystara? Who's Ordana? I have a list of the Immortals but she don't appears. >with advice and power. In return she allowed him to walk among them. Odin soon became a good friend of the elves and those who listened to his wisdom were inspired. He asled a few of them to come and live with him, and they accepted. These became the White elves. White Elves are tall pale >blonde humanoids with distinct elven features. They have no shadow. Rather, they are surrounded by an aura of light. White Elves are elegant and graceful beings. They voices are melodious and almost enthralling. Many White Elves are famous bards. >The White Elves are not servants of Odin as such. They see Odin and his fellow Immortals as friends, and equals. The elves are often invited to parties in Valhalla, and the Immortals are always welcome in Alfheim. The White Elves hate Loki his Black Elves and will assist anyone fighting those forces. >The White elves are very d|concerned with the safety of elves on Prime Material. They often disguise themselves as normal elves and walk among their shorter ‘cousins’. Sometimes special elven heroes are invited into the the realm of the White Elves. >There are many gates between the outer plane called Alfheim and the elven kingdoms on Mystara. After the Shadowelf Invasion all gates to Alfheim(aka >Aengmor) were closed. They will be reopened if the forest is restored. The White Elves rarely take actions that influence the political situations on Mystara, but they sometimes help individual elves. >Special abilities: White Elves are exalted creatures who can be killed. Like Immortals they can spend TP to gain the abilities of 36th level spellcasters. They do not need to eat sleep or breathe. They are Immune to >energy Drain, disease, aging and Immortal-level ESP spells. They only have >one form and can not have a mortal identity. It takes a weapon +3 or greater to harm them. they have Anti-Magic, but are affected by moral magic. >Characteristics: Ability scores for White Elves is determined as following Str, Con, W 1d6+14; Dex, Int and Cha: 1d8+17. >Where found: Alfheim (the outer plane), Prime Material, or anywhere else. Who created the humans? Is there a major Immortal, the most important? Jonathan Leibiusky edu@giga.com.ar *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #374 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, June 2 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 375 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] a trivial matter in the NR Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA RISING! (and i mean it!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Immortal Servants [MYSTARA] - New e-mail address Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA RISING! (and i mean it!) Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] a trivial matter in the NR Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] a trivial matter in the NR Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] a trivial matter in the NR Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? [MYSTARA] - Reprinted Modules [MYSTARA] - Genders in Mystara [MYSTARA] - Callarii elves Re: [MYSTARA] - Callarii elves Re: [MYSTARA] - Genders in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Reprinted Modules Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 21:47:10 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? At 10:41 PM 6/1/98 +0100, Rob wrote: >>This is a good point. Does anyone have any major problems with making Mystara material adaptable to other games? I thought a good job of this was done in the gazetteers...including suggested areas to place such nations as Darokin and Ylaruam... >Nooo. What makes Mystara good is the relationship between those nations. If u just cut and paste Mystaran stuff over it would lose its charm. (I for one would ignore any stuff they brought out for it...) Plus, if they do that u can forget bona fide Mystara. I'd rather they left it alone, rather than steal all the coolness from Mystara and inject it into some other naff world (imagine Alphatia in the Realms... *cringe*) But that is up to the individual DM. The setting proper would still be the setting proper. The success of the Gazzetteers cannot be denied...and if a page at the end giving such suggestions helps bring our setting back...then I am for it! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 21:50:18 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? At 04:57 PM 6/1/98 -0500, Galwylin wrote: DDaly wrote: >>A player who wishes to do some DMing might be directed by the current DM to a new setting. This avoids "giving away the big secrets". Also, anyone who runs Spelljammer campaigns will certainly want as many detailed settings as possible. Probably the same with Planescape campaigns... >Jeff, that brings another problem to mind. Just how does Mystara interact with Spelljammer or Planescape? From what I've heard, most want it to stay as far away from those as possible. While it may benefit Mystara, it certainly makes me wonder if fans of Spelljammer and Planescape want to mess with a setting that is cut off from them. Well, I don't know...I figure we should plan on it being set up in the regular AD&D universe...a REALLY BIG crystal sphere... Then we can just decide whatever we want on our own... You can figure there are multiple realities anyway, right? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 21:50:27 -0400 From: Derek Harmon Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] a trivial matter in the NR Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: >Subject: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] a trivial matter in the NR Well I disagree right off the bat, in the NR this is anything but a trivial matter. 3:D> >Take a look at the cover of the NR gazatteer. Looks nice, right? Vikings It doesn't look that bad. Why, what Gazetteer cover do you think looks the best? I know this could start a new thread.. I would have to go with GAZ1 though. I always wonder about the covers that didn't make it though, you know, I think the GAZ9 cover they didn't use (but that appeared on several ads) looked better than the GAZ9 cover they used. Yet the Thar cover they chose looked better than the one in all the ads. >never had horns on their helmets though. Thats because horns on your No, but didn't they have wings? You know, one wing and you were so-so important, two wings on your helm and you were all the man? >helmet actually makes you easier to hit. The purpose of a helmet is to How does a horn on your helmet make you easier to hit? I mean, I suppose its a target, but if the opponent hits your horn.. he's missing you so in that much it's better than taking a direct blow to the head. >divert the weapon of the attacker. The Vikings knew this and since they were pretty realistic when it came to warfare, they did not attach these things to their headgear. The Celts OTOH did use horned helmets. They cared more about looking good (intimidating) than actually surviving the Well there is a classic difference, the Celts often used antlers on their helmets. Besides looking fairly intimidating, especially when they painted their bodies bright blue, it allowed them to harrass local moose herds by sending false mating signals. 3:)> Most depictions of Norseman helms for some reason show these tusk- like horns. Now, I'm no historical expert, but I don't think they had elephants in Scandinavia during the time of the Vikings either. 3;D> >battle. Still, horned helmets are pretty cool. Do the Norsemen have horned They are. I think Gary Gygax got the idea from Biker Gangs... now whether the Biker Gangs did academic historical research, I don't know. >helmets in your campaigns? I've been wondering about whether I should use this stuff IMC or stay with what was found in the real world. Yes, I do. And so do a lot of dwarves. I don't know if you notice the little things in my post, like my signature happy face.. 3:)> But the horned 'Viking' helmet and beard are right there staring back at you. -- Stonelight *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 21:56:30 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA RISING! (and i mean it!) At 05:22 PM 6/1/98 -0500, Galwylin wrote: AAAre you kidding? Eventually we'll all be speaking Mystaran Common... >Hey! What about the alignment languages? ;> Say, is Mystara the only setting that uses the alignment languages? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 22:28:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Aleksei Andrievski pontificated: >That's exactly what I had in mind. Jaggar's buddy Rolf von Graustein is specialized in this sort of stuff. Imagine the surprise of the princes (and the anger of some of them), when Jaggar show up at the Council meeting with a new, shiny, metal arm! "Groovy!" Ash, in Army of Darkness. (Second time he got quoted on MML in as many days). Hack, he can probably figure out a way to mount the Blackmoor rod in the arm too! - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 22:32:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Immortal Servants =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= pontificated: >I'd like to hear some comments on these. I don't know much about Immortal rules, so I can't comment much on them, but do you have any other names for them? Black and White elves just sound a bit too cliche-ish... - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 22:32:14 -0300 From: "Leibiusky" Subject: [MYSTARA] - New e-mail address Hello For the ones who are intrested: edu@giga.com.ar changed his e-mail address to yonimyst@hotmail.com Thanks and God Bless the Queen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 22:49:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format >If all of the preceding options are considered, the most noticeable remaining difference between D&D and AD&D is that D&D seriously limits non-human Thieves. OD&D isn't all that limiting in non-human thieves. Many races, from halflings to hutaakans (proper pluralization?), have innate thieving skills. When you add in all the thief-skills in the HW boxed set or GAZ13 that players can select and non-humans wind up with the same potential to be good thieves as humans. Though I personally consider dwarves above that sort of behavior, having to defend my favorite group. -- Mischa [The complaint about the liberal media] ignores the fairly obvious fact that the owners of the mass media, the newspaper publishers, the radio and television station proprieters, are overwhelmingly Republican and conservative in their sentiments -- David Broder *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 23:00:02 -0500 From: "Thomas J. Mahaney II" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't >>I think D+D held Mystara back. All my friends just skipped over all the D+D articles that were ever printed in Dragon and Dungeon. So did everyone else probably. Its the "baby game" image that D+D has. (ill founded or not). >I agree. oD&D was saddle with the 'beginners' system the moment AD&D arrived. Why play D&D when ADVANCED D&D is available unless you're slow? Unless you're "slow". Thanks a lot! As a matter of fact I started playing AD&D first and THEN went to D&D. You could buy the red box for a fraction of what the three (at that time) hardcover books cost. Lets see... the price of one box set or three hardcover books. I guess I must have been really "slow" to make that decision. >No matter the improvements it made, it could never pass something called advance to any casual glancer. >-- >This has been a Galwylin© Production >galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) >http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ >The Karameikan School of Magecraft >http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. Thomas J. Mahaney II Help Desk Coordinator Help Desk Services Office of Information Technologies *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 22:01:26 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Daly wrote: >Well, I don't know...I figure we should plan on it being set up in the regular AD&D universe...a REALLY BIG crystal sphere... >Then we can just decide whatever we want on our own... >You can figure there are multiple realities anyway, right? Maybe the Spelljammer Mystaraspace isn't necessarily THE Mystaraspace we know? Just tossing coins in the fountain ;) - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 22:04:12 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA RISING! (and i mean it!) Daly wrote: >Say, is Mystara the only setting that uses the alignment languages? They were a part of 1st AD&D but I think 2nd got rid of them. Personally, I thought they were the dumbest thing. Why develope spells like detect alignment when you can just talk to them ;> - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 22:09:54 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Thomas J. Mahaney II wrote: >Unless you're "slow". Thanks a lot! As a matter of fact I started playing AD&D first and THEN went to D&D. You could buy the red box for a fraction of what the three (at that time) hardcover books cost. Lets see... the price of one box set or three hardcover books. I guess I must have been really "slow" to make that decision. Well, I think anyone that knows me knows that I still play oD&D. What the 'slow' comment was meant about how people from the outside looked at oD&D compared to AD&D. I wasn't calling anyone slow. Oh, well. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 23:41:24 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] a trivial matter in the NR On Mon, 1 Jun 1998, Geoff Gander wrote: >Hmm...SteelAngel, why not share what you're developing in Vulcania. As Davania developer for the Almanac I'd be interested... ;) Working on it. I have 3 years worth of random info sitting in notebooks. Collating it is a pain. Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 05:41:19 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #375 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 5e09c32edb370c1f82784aa0db065b01 Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 00:22:25 -0600 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Daly meandered fecklessly... >Also, anyone who runs Spelljammer campaigns will certainly want as many detailed settings as possible. I can certainly attest to this, since this the how I came to be a Mystara fan. While I agree attracting new gamers and older fans of Mystara is a key to the resurrection of Mystara, don't count out fans of other worlds completely. There are a fair number of hard-core AD&D gamers (those that only play AD&D, no other RPG's, a phenomenon I can't hardly fathom : ) who invest their money into more than one setting. Anyone who has looked at my RPG collection list on my site understands what I mean. Some people just spend far too much money on games... : ) Mystara is generic fantasy [1], and despite the opinions of some on this list has a lot in common with GH and FR, even Birthright. Overall, they do not differentiate themselves greatly from the core ideas presented by the xD&D system. If looked at from a distance, these settings start to blur together. I am sure some people will disagree, possibly even be outraged by that statement, but lets face it, it's a bunch of elves and dwarves, warriors and wizards, pretty much doing what you expect them do. Wizards experiment and scheme, warriors smite their enemies and look for glory. Elves live in forests, dwarves live in the ground. These are the fantasy stereotypes and Mystara is chock full of them. To sell Mystara to the masses those things that shine through these stereotypes need to be brought forth and accentuated. Alphatia is a land ruled by wizards, complete with flying ships and common magic? Big deal, so is Halrua on Toril, plus similar other countries in half a dozen game worlds. But... these wizards are aliens! "Born on another world destroyed by the workings of a madman, they crossed the void of space to find a new home. But that madman never forgot, and he seeks to complete his work..." Word that a bit better, slap it in big print on an advertisement with good, eye-catching art in Dragon and other magazines and you will get people's attention. Sure it's just a big country filled to the gills with wizards (can't swing a dead cat...), but their wizards from another world, baby! If TSR was to release Mystara, they would have to advertise it properly. Don't give us ads saying "Karameikos, a land filled with opportunity, waiting for heroes..." Oh no, that's standard fare, a big ol' snoozefest. Tell us about "A land where horror awaits at the edges of civilization, while conquerers impose their will on those who know the truth [2]" Which do you think will draw people's interest? Hell, just an excellent full page illustration of an albino elf ( I think Brom would be an excellent choice here) in an underground setting would catch people's attention. "What's a drow?" To sum up: Mystara is a fascinating world with an amazing amount of potential, and I don't think TSR ever exploited it nearly a much as they could. The adverts for the AD&D boxed sets bored me to tears. The boxed set for Karameikos, while decent, didn't have the flavor of the Gaz. If TSR takes the same approach as selling FR or GH, it will probably fail again. [1] Don't take my usage of the term of "generic" to imply negativity. I like generic fantasy. It is simply the term I use for standard xD&D worlds (standard elves and dwarves, etc.) [2] In the most succesful Mystara campaign I ran I really emphasized the gothic horror of the uncivilized areas of Karameikos, using a lot of werewolves and vampaires and such. The players came to discover that the Thyatians were shooting themselves in the foot with their disdain for the superstitious ways of the Traladara, since the natives knew so much more about the dangers than their conquerers. I decided that certain things about vamps and wolfies were not common knowledge throughout the world, like the use of silver or stakes. Many Traladara knew, especially the gypsies that most Thyatians lookd down on. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com ICQ #4253672 "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 07:21:50 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] a trivial matter in the NR - -- >On a side note, what do people think of Ierendi losing its Hawaii aspect and go for the Celtic traditions of Britian? I want Celts somewhere but don't find many suitable spots. The Isle of Dawn perhaps? Caerdwicca? (I think they are based on the Scots, but we already have Scots in Klantyre). And Caerdwicca sounds pretty Celtic to me... Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 07:24:05 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] a trivial matter in the NR - ->That would be weird, but we've already got Celtic-type people on Mystara: tthe people of Robrenn (actually they're Gauls, IMO, but IIRC Gauls were related to Celts, and there were of course Celtic lands such as Brittany and so forth), as well as the Hinterlanders. You've also got Scottish/Celtic-type place names in the Grand Duchy of Westrourke on the IoD. Robrenn is most definitely Gaul. Check out the Asterix ripoff names there! Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 01:51:53 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Leroy Van Camp III wrote: >Hell, just an excellent full page illustration of an albino elf ( I think Brom would be an excellent choice here) in an underground setting would catch people's attention. "What's a drow?" LOL! I like this one! Great angle on the Traladaran's. Don't think I've ever played up their superstitious side. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 02:17:09 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: [MYSTARA] - Reprinted Modules Sean Reynolds on the Greyhawk list said that any of the modules voted to be reprinted would be updated to AD&D 2nd Edition and expanded. He may have meant only the Greyhawk modules but I wonder what that would mean if B10 was chosen. I think the deadline is in July so if you haven't voted for your favorite Mystara module do so soon! It maybe that chance we've been wanting to prove that Mystara will sell. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 09:50:25 +0200 From: Ezio Pignatelli Subject: [MYSTARA] - Genders in Mystara Jenni A. M. Merrifield wrote: >I could easily see some young boys refusing to play 'a girl'. (Note, however, that in the existing scenario any girl in the group is likely to be forced to play as a male, regardless of her wishes.) You are probably right. But, well, I have right now a group of 8 players (4 males, 4 females). Two of the female players are playing male characters, while only one of the male players choosed to play a female player. An interesting thing is that this one is married. :)) Just curious... how are things going in your group at this regard? I especially enjoy my female player (male/character) trying advances with the male player (female character). :))) - -- Ezio Pignatelli - Dipartimento di Astronomia - Padova Tel: +39-49-8293459 - Fax: +39-49-8759840 mailto:epignat@leda.pd.astro.it http://leda.pd.astro.it/~epignat - -- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 09:51:17 +0200 From: Ezio Pignatelli Subject: [MYSTARA] - Callarii elves Galwylin wrote: >The way I've handled the situation in Karameikos with the Callarii and the Alfheim elves is that Callarii is having a few problems from their cousins. Callarii are very friendly with the humans of Karameikos compared to the Alfheim elves. It's the Alfheim that have developed a hostile attitude. They're grateful that they were allowed in Karameikos but they felt that it was their right. just curious... what about Valya elves? they are much more hostile than callarii elves... I guess they could build tighter relations with alfheim refugees. - -- Ezio Pignatelli - Dipartimento di Astronomia - Padova Tel: +39-49-8293459 - Fax: +39-49-8759840 mailto:epignat@leda.pd.astro.it http://leda.pd.astro.it/~epignat - -- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 03:16:22 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Callarii elves Ezio Pignatelli wrote: >just curious... what about Valya elves? they are much more hostile than callarii elves... I guess they could build tighter relations with alfheim refugees. I think the problems are that Callarii are too involved in human affairs for the Alfheim. The Vyalia are closer to their attitudes. Considering that Vyalia elves cross the Karameikan and Thyatian border, how would you think Thyatis would feel about Karameikos's hospitality mean possibly having unfriendly elves on or across their border. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 18:44:12 +1000 From: Anakin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Genders in Mystara Jenni A. M. Merrifield wrote: >>I could easily see some young boys refusing to play 'a girl'. (Note, however, that in the existing scenario any girl in the group is likely to be forced to play as a male, regardless of her wishes.) Well I play in an atypical group then, an all male group (for the moment) in which at least to of the players always play female characters..... It is interesting though that they don't play convincing women, Also the best role players I have ever had in my groups have been female players. They got into the characters far more easilt than most of my male players.. Anakin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 02:31:41 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Reprinted Modules >Sean Reynolds on the Greyhawk list said that any of the modules voted to be reprinted would be updated to AD&D 2nd Edition and expanded. He >may have meant only the Greyhawk modules but I wonder what that would >mean if B10 was chosen. I think the deadline is in July so if you haven't vvoted for your favorite Mystara module do so soon! It maybe that chance we've been wanting to prove that Mystara will sell. This has been a Galwylin© Production How/Where does one vote ? Jesse. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 02:35:19 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? >This is a good point. Does anyone have any major problems with making Mystara material adaptable to other games? I thought a good job of this was done in the gazetteers...including suggested areas to place such nations as Darokin and Ylaruam... Personally, I don't think that the idea of placing lands of Mystara on other worlds would be a good one. But, I think that making all of the accessories adaptable would be a good idea. Jesse. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 02:39:41 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? >Jeff, that brings another problem to mind. Just how does Mystara interact with Spelljammer or Planescape? From what I've heard, most want it to stay as far away from those as possible. While it may benefit Mystara, it certainly makes me wonder if fans of Spelljammer and Planescape want to mess with a setting that is cut off from them. This has been a Galwylin© Production Galwylin, If Mystara is to be added to 2nd/3rd edition- it's going to have to be part of the Prime Material Plane which usually means that it cannot be cut off from Spelljammer or Planescaper (AFAIK). I don't think that the relations between Mystara and other settings needs to be addressed in the Mystara products though- it should be one of those things left to the DM's. Jesse. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #375 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, June 2 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 376 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] a trivial matter in the NR Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] a trivial matter in the NR Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't [MYSTARA] - Black and White Elves [MYSTARA] - Complexity of AD&D [MYSTARA] - Comments on the Jenni Codex Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Why the Council of Alphatia is reasonable Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Re: [MYSTARA] - Comments on the Jenni Codex Re: [MYSTARA] - Thoughts on the 'Saving of Mystara' [LONG] Re: [MYSTARA] - Kopru/Illithids Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Immortal Servants Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA RISING! (and i mean it!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 03:07:06 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] a trivial matter in the NR >The Vikings knew this and since they were pretty realistic when it came to warfare, they did not attach these things to their headgear. This is not entirely true- they did not have these attachments for combat purposes. In formal occassions though, wings and horns were both very common items. >The Celts OTOH did use horned helmets. They cared more about looking good (intimidating) than actually surviving the battle. Still, horned helmets are pretty cool. Do the Norsemen have horned helmets in your campaigns? I've been wondering about whether I should use this stuff IMC or stay with what was found in the real world. Håvard IMC, I have the leaders embellish their helms in such ways- and almost everyone does so at formal occasions. Jesse. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 03:14:17 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] a trivial matter in the NR >>Håvard Rønne Faanes >Stonelight Jesse >>Vikings never had horns on their helmets though. Thats because horns on your... >No, but didn't they have wings? You know, one wing and you were so-so important, two wings on your helm and you were all the man? Wings and Horns were both used, but only in formal occassions. They amount of adornment was your personal statement of how powerful/important you were. If someone thought that you were over-stepping your bounds, they'd be the one to "put you back in your place" with challenges, etc. >How does a horn on your helmet make you easier to hit? I mean, I suppose its a target, but if the opponent hits your horn.. he's missing you so in that much it's better than taking a direct blow to the head. The horns actually act as a sort of a guide for the weapon to stay on target. >Most depictions of Norseman helms for some reason show these tusk- like horns. Now, I'm no historical expert, but I don't think they had elephants in Scandinavia during the time of the Vikings either. 3;D> More often than not, what you're looking at is a "Victorian" bastardization of the Ox and Cow horns that were actually worn- again, at formal occassions (like the victory celebrations in a conquered town...). >>battle. Still, horned helmets are pretty cool. Do the Norsemen have horned >They are. I think Gary Gygax got the idea from Biker Gangs... now whether the Biker Gangs did academic historical research, I don't know. Gygax, IMO got the idea for horns from Victorian and Rennaissance artworks that were done. Later. Jesse. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 07:16:57 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri << Well, this has some potential. Forging the tie between Rad and Rafiel even closer. BTW, I wonder what Rad will think about the altered radience. Maybe he will seek to destroy it since it has been corrupted. But how to do that without destroying Glantri? (Glantri into HW? nah.. >> I really doubt he will want to destroy it. He's dedicated a lot of his recent years to the radience. In my opinion, he would continue doing his studies on it as usual. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 07:29:31 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't << Unless you're "slow". Thanks a lot! As a matter of fact I started playing AD&D first and THEN went to D&D. You could buy the red box for a fraction of what the three (at that time) hardcover books cost. Lets see... the price of one box set or three hardcover books. I guess I must have been really "slow" to make that decision. >> If you want to choose what's better, moneywise. I'd rather have the better product. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 20:03:15 +0800 From: "Jason Murphy" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't ><< Unless you're "slow". Thanks a lot! As a matter of fact I started playing >AD&D first and THEN went to D&D. You could buy the red box for a fraction >of what the three (at that time) hardcover books cost. Lets see... the price of one box set or three hardcover books. I guess I must have been >really "slow" to make that decision. >> >If you want to choose what's better, moneywise. I'd rather have the better >product. Well in that case i would consider myself lucky.....cos i consider D&D much preferable over Ad&d....but hey that is just a personal choice. And the fact that D&D is cheaper is just a bonus. Jason *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 08:49:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Savoie Subject: [MYSTARA] - Black and White Elves >Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 19:29:34 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Immortal Servant: White Elf >Elf, White >Elf, Black >Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) >http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc >"Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^ this is significant... Very nice, but for my own campaign, and out of racial sensitivity, I'll reverse the colours and make the Black bruthahs the shining ones (only they shine psychedelic lights) who partied down with Odin and gave him a monster spliff to help him forget he only had one eye for a time. The big secret is that Odin looks like Isaac Hayes himself. "Hello, children!" indeed. The White elves can be the pasty-faced, servants of Entropy. Just for a change...I'm sure I'm upsetting the traditional fantasy colour-scheme but... Really, I was ethnically sensitized by the group in the 70's that complained that Darth Vader was Black and for extra horror a Black man did his voice..."What is the color of his outfit? What does Black mean to you? Do you associate Black with evil?" - ---Pierre Savoie (ab966@torfree.net) "DAMN, woman! You just had it five minutes ago!" -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 08:51:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Savoie Subject: [MYSTARA] - Complexity of AD&D >Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 17:26:17 -0500 >From: Galwylin >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't >>I think D+D held Mystara back. All my friends just skipped over all the D+D articles that were ever printed in Dragon and Dungeon. So did everyone else probably. Its the "baby game" image that D+D has. (ill founded or not). >I agree. oD&D was saddle with the 'beginners' system the moment AD&D arrived. Why play D&D when ADVANCED D&D is available unless you're slow? No matter the improvements it made, it could never pass something called advance to any casual glancer. TSR has duped a lot of people into thinking "more complex" is better. On the other hand, NOW I'd feel positively insulted if a game-company worked out rules mechanics and settings in their finest details, and handed it to me saying "this is the Law" ("No, man, this is YOUR jury-rig of the Law."), and then hinted that they only gave me a fraction of all the possible things in their line that I as a gamer must buy. That leaves me no room to breathe and be creative. It's inherently patronizing. When the pendulum swung the other way to emphasize role-playing, TSR got lost and AD&D got less and less of the share of all gaming activity. NOW I think that if a game can't make its case in 256 pages they're not worth it...and in 1984, waiting for TSR to "get around to" making 2nd-edition AD&D, xD&D was truly worth it. No "clutter" to it, no worrying about more than 12 spells (later 13) per level. But D&D fans are up against the same problems as fans of any game faced with the AD&D monoculture: how do you get them to try anything different? - ---Pierre Savoie (ab966@torfree.net): who wants every last drop of your garmonbozia. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 08:57:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Savoie Subject: [MYSTARA] - Comments on the Jenni Codex >Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 00:43:55 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thoughts on the 'Saving of Mystara' [LONG] >On Sun, 31 May 1998, Jenni A. M. Merrifield wrote: >>At 01:56 PM 5/31/98 -0700, Jenni A. M. Merrifield wrote: ------------------------------------ >>>THOUGHTS ON THE SAVING OF MYSTARA >>>--------------------------------- Well worth copying by medieval scribes, but I was going to mention that Jenni's epistle seemed too unaware of TSR's history and attitudes towards independent RPG creations. Why deal when you can (legally) steal? The law, TSR claims, is that ANYTHING making use of settings and rules details of TSR is TSR's property, that's it! TSR makes its game fans feel like sharecroppers, not equal participants in a formerly seamless fan world of players, game-masters, and game inventors. TSR stretched the copyright thing really far, but they were the megacorp and no gamer would run the expense of challenging them in court on this. >2) Genders. I think TSR saw this as a difficult issue and generally left it alone. Gender roles are important. I dont think we should impose equality between the sexes where that is not appropriate. Haavard, you may have stepped into the viper's nest with that remark. But it is true that attitudes to women varied with the Mystara countries you mentioned. I have the post-feminist belief that we should just put attitudes towards women to an empirical test and see which country is the most successful. There is and has in nature been only one criterion for success: that which leaves the most actual descendents to carry on. So which is it going to be: the country with the veiled and bundled women, or the country whose little girls spent their teen years watching "Ellen"?... :-) - ---Pierre Savoie (ab966@torfree.net) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 09:23:57 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri In a message dated 98-06-01 12:56:48 EDT, you write: << > At 17.16 01/06/98 +0200, Håvard wrote: III don't know what you're thinking about as the obvious way, but how about getting some Alchemists to make an artificial arm for him? Golem-tech. Cyberwear anyone? >Eh eh... seems we're thinking along the same lines after all... BUT... it wouldn't really be Glantri if it was so simple, now wouldn't it?... *no more hints mode*... >> Could it be as complicated as Jaggar using the arm loss and the attempt by Dolores to dethrone him as a way to get even. I like the premise of Jaggar acting like he has a false mechanical arm (perhaps rumored to be based on Blackmoor technology). This arm being a false sign as Jaggar "found" a ring a regeneration somewhere. With this artificial arm Jaggar can supposedly cast a few spell, mostly 1st level. Thus his status of a mage is preserved. This is a ploy to get Dolores to openly act against him. She screwed up with the plot within a plot with Morphail. She was thwarted by Etienne in the previous almanac from knocking off Malachie. Then there is her handy work in Mark of Amber. Perhaps she is getting sloppy. I think it would be neat if Jaggar and Dolores butted heads in a duel. Dolores thinking Jaggar is a small fry mage with that tricket arm, goads him into combat. Jaggar obliges as that is what he wanted. During the melee, Jaggar tosses off the arm and shows his regenerated one. Panicked, Dolores uses her trump card and turns to Synn. Undaunted, Jaggar uses the GM of Dracology to turn to a dragon, perhaps even assuming the mortal guise of Diamond. The two duke it out all over Glantri. Synn calls up her minions to aid her. Jaggar calls up his boys to aid him. Evil and Lawful dragons throwing down. The conflict escalates as more and more dragons become involved, finally the DragonLord comes into play. That would be a cool way to "fix" the Dragonlord Trilogy to make it how the MML would have liked to seen it done. This new Dragonlord is one bad dude (but in a good way). He is not the timid boy of his predeccessor, Thelvynn Foxeyes. He does not slay dragons, instead subduing them.And he is not alone, accompanying him are a bunch of soldiers, mages, and clerics. And to complicate things, these folk are Alphatians from Norwold. Alphatians saving Glantri, that is a heck of a note. Of course the Alphatians will want to settle in Glantri afterwards. Ah the Principality of Randel. Got a nice ring to it. But anyway, this could introduce a bunch of Draconic NPCs. Sorry for the rambling...just got off work...have a cold....and a fever. Alex- who really should be in bed doped up on Nyquil *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 11:15:44 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why the Council of Alphatia is reasonable In a message dated 98-06-01 18:39:17 EDT, galwylin@airnet.net writes: << > Any emperor or king foolish enough to get into a war with the purpose of aacquiring more territory is likely to receive the disapproval of the major mages of Alphatia. There are certainly powermongers among them...but I think the character and size of Alphatia is a limiting factor in itself. Okay, I look at differently. To me, the mages are very political. Just from Terari's background, I got the feeling that expansion is met with favor (more! more! more!) but defeat is a political death knell which is what happened to Terari.>> But was not Terari's downfall spurred by multiple mistakes and not solely based on the defeats in Thyatis and Glantri. And it was the defeat in Thyatis and the uprisings elsewhere that broke the camel's back. IMO the Council is not very political. The actual running of Alphatia's kingdoms is carried out by the individual monarchs. All of which swear fealty to the Imperial Throne. The Imperial Throne lays down an overview of things to come: expansions, taxes, defense, etc. Thus you have an empire. The mages of Council are just a fraternity of sorts. This fraternity rarely meets and rarely has a full attendance when it does. The role of the Council is to keep a body powerful enough to counter the Imperial Throne to keep it in line. No repeat of Alphaks Folly. The Council also keeps those 36th level mages in order. More importantly, it keeps the players who may have reached that pinnacle in line. Its one thing to be a 36th level mage in Glantri or Thyatis. But on Alphatia, you are just one of many. Plus the Council gives a player something to shoot for. Sort of like Immortality. And I still think that expansion only comes from need. Either the need for secured borders, resources, tribute, or living space. As long as the mage ruling class is happy and their needs filled, the situation for Alphatia is fine. << While Alphatia is unsurpassed in spell power, its military is the same or lower than other nations. The reasons why Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 12:50:11 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #376 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 0161dca3dc21723b8369ab918dbdbf5c is because of the rule of mages. Physical might is low on the lists of ability for them and a nation gets its inspiration from its leaders.>> But it has always been my opinion thaty Alphatian expansion rested heavily on the fighting arms of the commoner soldiers. And since doing mage stuff is more Alphatian than fighting, a great importance could be placed on the fighting man. Let the commoners fight while we mages reap the rewards. Fighting depending heavily on commoners also keeps down the surplus population, thus the ruling mage class is further secured. IMO the total Alphatian War Machine is a mixture of good, bad, and ugly units. A geat deal depends on the kingdom and its attitudes towards commoners and militerism. And since the commanders are usually mages, the training time can also vary. At worst, the Alphatian troops are as seen in the PWAs. These being mostly reserve divisions, left behind while the real troop units fight. Thus they are a defensive force. Normal units are drawn as division types, specializing in a certain troop aspect. IIRC DotE mentions notoritety as pikemen and axmen. These troops are sent to join the Imperial forces when called. IMO the Imperial Court also has a standing Imperial Army, Navy, and Air Fleet. These are composed of troops from all over the Empire. The individual kingdom armies are intended to suppliment this force in times of war. <> Yes...but the individual and the source of the general are prevalent. For example, an arrogant magist general from Aroganso could see the mages as the driving force in his division. Or he could let the commoners take the burden of combat. Depends on the commander, his origins, and the circumstances. <> Ah but was it not the mages that have been Alphatia's Achilles Heel. The vices of the mages caused the revolt in Thyatis both times. IMO the mages are too chaotic to rule in a practical manner. They just are not cut out to commit to rule. This is quite ironic since they are the ruling class. <> Still think the Council is a fraternity or "old boys club". I also think that the mages of Alphatia are pretty much out of touch with the real world. Subjects such as farming are alien to them. For that matter, a commoner's life is probably foreign to them as well. Whether the mage is 1st level or 36th, he is of the ruling class. As such, he has no need to know how to build anything with his hands. As a member of the ruling class, he has the resources to pay someone to do this for him. The people they conquered were most probably low tech. The scattering of people on Alphatia were quickly subjugated. Those that fled to the Yannivey Chain seem pretty backwards. The Jennites of Skothar are a wee bit behind. And so on... IMO the Alphatians depend heavily on the size of their armies. I also feel thay like quick victories. Send in a massive force and crush the opposition. Thyatis is the exception. It is large enough and civilized enough to organize a formidable force. Plus attacking Thyatis opens a new can of worms for the Thyatians. Occupying Thyatis means that hostile neighbors are a threat. These being Ylaruam, Ethengar, Glantri, Darokin, etc. If you take out Thyatis you have to seriously consider taking these nations as well to secure the borders. And then you have to deal with the Northern Reaches, Hule, Sind, Wendar, etc. So basically Alphatia is pressed to conquer all of Brun to secure its borders from the barbarians. So taking Thyatis could very well be Alphatia's Pandora's Box. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 11:48:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't >>From personal experience, I'd say there's a large number of negative views about FR out there, hardly making it a 'huge success', except from a marketing viewpoint. >In what terms? How about visibility? Diversity? Detail? Sales? Most of these reasons overlap. Diversity/detail means a large number of products, which means a high degree of visibility, which leads to a large number of sales. All of which basically comes down to the fact that TSR put its main focus on this product instead of the alternatives. If a company wants to make a large number of products or wants to make a certain line a favorite, the sales will almost always be higher than the sales of the less-favored lines. >Having met all these critics did you not wonder who buys the line to make it a constant bestseller? The fact that something sells well does not make it a success in my mind, especially when put up against a large amount of criticism. If sales and visibility are your definition of success, Howard Stern and the Spice Girls are successful. Heck, Stern has a TV show, radio show, movie and books..talk about diversity! I doubt most people would label either a success though, seeing as how both are generally viewed in negative terms and made the target of criticism/jokes. The best product does not always sell the best (heck, look at books on immigration, where Peter Brimelow's racist trash Alien Nation outsells any thoughtful discussion on the topic). Aside:Of course, I do realize when we're discussing 'best' here, it's very subjective. Everyone likes something else in a campaign setting or a novel or what have you. What I'm arguing is that when a large number of people criticize something, there's often good reason for it. >If you would like, I can point you where you can find critics of Mystara. No setting is completely loved or loathed by everyone. Agreed. If you have to point out where critics can be found though, it shows that they tend to be few in numbers. Without ever having been on a FR list, I hear criticism of the setting. I even hear it on Transformer MUSHes, where such things are far off from the usual topics of discussion. The fact that you really have to search to find critics of Gerald Ford in comparison to Reagan or Nixon helps me to conclude that there was less to criticize about Ford, though I am sure some people completely loathed him. >They attempt to encompass everyone. Mystara has always been burdened by focus. First focused to 0D&D players then beginner players. I agree that the latter was a problem for Mystara. As for the 'focused to OD&D players', wasn't FR 'focused to AD&D players' by the same standard? This was hardly an attempt to encompass everyone in the days when OD&D was still a viable alternative. >Many of the criticism of the Realms is the amount of material available. Why this is I have no idea as I thought gaming was about picking and choosing what you wanted to use. I would be much more happier to have more to choose from. We don't need to be burdened with descriptions of every single aspect of the world till we have no room left for creativity unless we ignore some of the 'canon' materials. I like following everything the products say, but having enough room to work on my own to expand on it as I wish. It feels much more 'right' to me than having something contradictory to the source materials. [The complaint about the liberal media] ignores the fairly obvious fact that the owners of the mass media, the newspaper publishers, the radio and television station proprieters, are overwhelmingly Republican and conservative in their sentiments -- David Broder *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 09:11:48 -0700 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Comments on the Jenni Codex At 08:57 AM 6/2/98 -0400, Pierre Savoie wrote: WWell worth copying by medieval scribes, but I was going to mention that Jenni's epistle seemed too unaware of TSR's history and attitudes towards independent RPG creations. Why deal when you can (legally) steal? The law, TSR claims, is that ANYTHING making use of settings and rules details of TSR is TSR's property, that's it! TSR makes its game fans feel like sharecroppers, not equal participants in a formerly seamless fan world of players, game-masters, and game inventors. TSR stretched the copyright thing really far, but they were the megacorp and no gamer would run the expense of challenging them in court on this. I have heard of (but never personally witnessed) TSR's past tendancies towards what you describe. However, I think the most important point I'd like to make about this is that TSR isn't "just" TSR anymore. It is now a subsidiary of WotC. And, as the revised Online Usage policy shows us, the acquisition of TSR by WotC has already caused far reaching changes in TSR policy. This is why I have hope that WotC/TSR might just consider the things I suggested. Regarding the law, btw, TSR does 'own' the trademark and copyright on the world of Mystara, and so they do 'own' our fan work to some extent. On the otherhand, we, the fans who created these works also own the copyright on any 'new material' wrapped around the bits belonging to TSR. Legally, TSR can NOT use a fan's material without their permision. (I do, however, recognize that they /may/ have tried to do so in the past, counting on the fact that most fans don't have the time or inclination to take them to court to uphold their own copyright.) I would HOPE that the new 'entity' of WotC/TSR would not resort to such underhanded tactics and (in fact) have my doubts about whether TSR really did 'use' fan's work without permsission. I'm more inclined to accept that TSR refused to use the work of their fans, and, in fact, squelched the distribution of such fan material, in order to AVOID the problems associated with copyright and trademark. OTOH, I could be totally wrong and TSR could be a big, mean, insensitive, underhanded corporation that will never take the little guy into consideration. I'd have to hear from someone who, firsthand, had their work 'stolen' by TSR before I'd truly believe that side of things though. (This is not meant as an attack on you Pierre. It's just how my opinons stand in response to your comments on my 'Codex'. :-) Jenni - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs strawberry@jamm.com <==> http://www.jamm.com/ <------------------------------------------------------------------> God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. Then God started to think: "I should create things *I* like!" And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 12:10:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thoughts on the 'Saving of Mystara' [LONG] Jenni wrote: >What I was commenting on in my 'aside' was that I had noticed that the 'Intro to AD&D' boxed set came with plastic figures and statistic cards for six 'starter' characters and each one of them were male -- one each of the 'common' race/class combinations: Human Mage, Human Thief, Human Fighter, Human Cleric, Dwarf Fighter, Elf F/M. This seems more on isolated incident than a recurrent theme. Even though a large majority of role-players I've met have been male (and most people on the RPG newsgroups and mailing lists), TSR has generally done a good job of including women. Most pre-generated parties in modules are evenly split male-female and almost none have been entirely male. They at least gave consideration to the separate need for male and female titles when many other companies assume their consumer is male. I looked briefly at the B6 characters and they seem mostly male, but the elf looks female to me and the thief and cleric could be looked at either way. A good number of NPCs in the modules, both good and bad chars, are female. A brief look is given to the role of gender in each culture (at least in the HW set and the HWRs..I don't have the GAZ line). TSR could definitely do a better job at encouraging women to buy their products and to give women an equal place in their settings and game, but I think that they generally have done a good job in matters of gender. Then again, as a guy, I might have trouble spotting some of the pro-male orientation women may find in their products. -- Mischa [The complaint about the liberal media] ignores the fairly obvious fact that the owners of the mass media, the newspaper publishers, the radio and television station proprieters, are overwhelmingly Republican and conservative in their sentiments -- David Broder *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 12:13:45 EDT From: DuncanTKD@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Kopru/Illithids Perhapse we are looking at it wrong. Perhaps Illithiads did not spawn the Kopru, but it is the other way around. For that matter maybe the dieties of the other campaign worlds (Forgotten realms etc....) are Mystaran immortals indisguise. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 12:31:29 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? On Mon, 1 Jun 1998, Daly wrote: >regular AD&D universe...a REALLY BIG crystal sphere... But what about the Immortals? Do they only exist in Mystara's Multiverse? Also, Mystara has a wholly defined Multiversal system. It doesn't work well with Planescape, unless you can consider the whole AD&D Multiverse an alternate Dimension. This is actually a big problem with the D&D to AD&D conversion. The Multiverses are just not easily compatible (and i like the D&D one better anyway ;) Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 12:33:20 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Immortal Servants On Mon, 1 Jun 1998, Shin Chyang Yu wrote: >them, but do you have any other names for them? Black and White elves just sound a bit too cliche-ish... How about the Alfish, (White) And the Svartalfish (Black)? Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 12:35:16 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA RISING! (and i mean it!) On Mon, 1 Jun 1998, Galwylin wrote: >They were a part of 1st AD&D but I think 2nd got rid of them. Personally, I thought they were the dumbest thing. Why develope spells like detect alignment when you can just talk to them ;> I don't think that Alignment Tongues were a spoken language. I think it was more of a physical language, like how you hold yourself. Those are universally known. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 12:46:57 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? On Tue, 2 Jun 1998, Jesse LaBranche wrote: >to be part of the Prime Material Plane which usually means that it cannot be cut off from Spelljammer or Planescaper (AFAIK). I don't think that the HA! And 5 minutes later, the Immortals subjugate the "Gods". Bye Bye Lady Of Pain. Here comes Thanatos. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #376 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:00:23 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #377 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 79663e56338fb9bd6c3980f1e4bce6db mystara-digest Tuesday, June 2 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 377 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - New e-mail address [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Those B/W elves (kinda long) Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't [MYSTARA] - [OD&D] - Subject: test Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Those B/W elves (kinda long) Re: [MYSTARA] - Genders in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Immortal Servant: Valkyre [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Immortal Servant: Hellkyre [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Immortal Servant: Einherjar [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Immortal Servant: Shadowknight Re: [MYSTARA] - Why the Council of Alphatia is reasonable ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 10:14:57 PDT From: "Jonathan Leibiusky" Subject: [MYSTARA] - New e-mail address I´ve changed my e-mail address The old one is edu@giga.com.ar you can send there the big e-mails and attachments (and if you want to talk with me privatly also). The new e-mail address is yonimyst@hotmail.com is for mystara ans rol games exclusively. Thanks, ****************************** "The magic is power" * Jonathan Leibiusky * "La magia es poder" * * * yonimyst@hotmail.com * A todos los fanaticos de * edu@giga.com.ar * los juegos de rol. * * A mis jugadores: Tayib, * Mystara, D&D and comics * Glimor, Skepton, Zedor, ****************************** Pthan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 19:48:53 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Those B/W elves (kinda long) Thanks for the comments people Daly: <> Thanks, I will post a few more soon. I will place them on my website (see signature) when I get the time to convert them into html. Geoff Gander: <> Hmm. Is there any official date when Loki gained Immortality? I couldn’t find anything in WotI. I think it should have happened some time quite soon after he achieved Imortality. Maybe a few years later. Thoughts? That other idea of yours sounds interesting too. What effects would apply to a spellbound person? Total Paralysis? Geoff: <> Sounds reasonable. There could be a link with the Schattenalfen too. Maybe there is some rivalry going on between Loki and Atzanteotl? Geoff: <> That is definately an idea. If there are a few gates in Denagoth, they may already have agents among the humanoids in that region. I think they would be very interested in working with the Shadowlord. Depends on how that thing with Idris works out though. And who Idris really is... Dominique Rivard: <> ;-p Thanks :) Dominique: <> Well, some people in here have been negative to making the links between Mystara and Norse Mythology too close. I have been thinking about making Forsetta another name for Baldur though. It seems to fit and, besides, Forsetta is a Frisian god, so I dont really know what he is doing in a Viking setting. I have also been thinking about having Heimdall as a very powerful Titan. Pierre Savoie: <<"Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^ this is significant... >> really? :) Pierre: << Very nice, but for my own campaign, and out of racial sensitivity, I'll reverse the colours and make the Black bruthahs the shining ones (only they shine psychedelic lights) who partied down with Odin and gave him a monster spliff to help him forget he only had one eye for a time. The big secret is that Odin looks like Isaac Hayes himself. "Hello, children!" indeed. The White elves can be the pasty-faced, servants of Entropy. Just for a change...I'm sure I'm upsetting the traditional fantasy colour-scheme but... Really, I was ethnically sensitized by the group in the 70's that complained that Darth Vader was Black and for extra horror a Black man did his voice..."What is the color of his outfit? What does Black mean to you? Do you associate Black with evil?">> I was thinking about that too. However, I decided to use it to preserve the norse apsect of it. In norse mythology, black elves aren’t neccesarily evil, though they are very dangerous. Even Trolls aren’t neccesarily hostile there, though you shouldn’t trust them. I think that the association of darkness(black) and evil is so well founded on European traditions that you cannot claim it to be racist. I associate black with evil. Ofcourse, that doesn’t mean I see Black people as evil. OTOH having the White Elves serving Loki would certainly surprise a few adventurers.. :) <<---Pierre Savoie (ab966@torfree.net) "DAMN, woman! You just had it five minutes ago!" -Chef, South Park>> hehe :) From: SteelAngel (John Yu asked for alternative names for those “elves”) <> Doesn’t that sound like fish? I did provide some name alternatives in the text though. You could use the norse names rather than the English ones: White Elves = Kvitalfar (Alternatively)Light Elves = Lysalfar, Ljosalfar Black Elves = Svartalfar (alternatively)Dark Elves = Morkalfar btw, I think the “f “ is pronounced more like a “v” Phew! Thanks for the comments. I'll be posting a few more critters now. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 19:07:51 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? >But what about the Immortals? Do they only exist in Mystara's Multiverse? Also, Mystara has a wholly defined Multiversal system. It doesn't work well with Planescape, unless you can consider the whole AD&D Multiverse an alternate Dimension. >This is actually a big problem with the D&D to AD&D conversion. The Multiverses are just not easily compatible (and i like the D&D one better anyway ;) >Max IV I dont know about that. When u look at it, what is so different about the AD+D multiverse that prohibits the conversion? Lets look at it logically... The Prime (we'll leave this one to Spelljammer. However, Planescape says that there are multiple PrimePlanes, so Planescape could even solve that one) The Ethereal and Astral. Still around, still similar. No Ethereal/Astral barrier anymore (that I am aware of). But if u really want a weird shimmery thing in the Planes, there is the Wall of Colour that separates the Border and Deep Ethereals... If i remember rightly the Astral in D+D didnt touch the Prime Plane at all, so u had to go through the Ethereal to get to the Astral. No great problem in changing this - thats just a technicality, a Point of Order. The Inner Planes. Well, AD+D has lots of new planes - the Negative Material, Positive Material, four paraelementals and eight quasielementals. Well, its a bit of expansion, but theres nothing wrong with that. Alphatia could well be described as a "bit of an expansion", and I'm sure that has had more effect on the world of Mystara than the addition of the Paraelemental Plane of Ooze... The Inner Planes of AD+D are all situated in the Ethereal Plane, just like the ones in D+D. The idea of wormholes has gone, as far as I know (Ive certainly never run into one in AD+D as a player), but gates fulfill the same purpose, and a gate could take any form the DM wanted. Its interesting to note that some beasties from the AD+D Mystara Monstrous Compendium are listed as being from weird Inner Planes (Im thinking of Spectral Deaths here, from the Quasielemental Plane of Vacuum). The Outer Planes. The problem... lol. AD+D has the Great Ring, D+D has an infinite number of Outer Planes... This can be solved with my favourite plane of all - the demiplane... Demiplanes in Planescape are really just a catch all for any plane other than the ones described in the various AD+D sources (barring Ravenloft... lol). There are (potentially, at least) an infinite number of Demiplanes floating around the place. Although "demiplane" sounds a lot less impressive than "the Great Ring" there is no real difference between them - demiplanes can be infinite in size as well. Although demiplanes are supposedly only found in the Ethereal (the Demiplane of Dread for a start) i see no reason why they cannot be found in the Astral as well, and have the same characteristics as D+D Outer Planes. So the Immortals could all be hanging out on these demiplanes... This is doubtless going to wind up Mystaraphiles. Immortals on DEMIplanes? How patronising! But it could be explained by a simple matter of perspective. All the Powers who live on the AD+D Great Ring are of course going to make out that they reside at the Centre of the Multiverse - especially considering that if Immortals and Gods did coexist, I'm sure the Gods would look down on the Immortals (you arent a real deity - you were once a mortal!!!). So, the gods pull off a good PR job, and all those "demi"planes are ignored. (Alternatively, the Immortals dont tolerate their home planes being ridden with weird and wonderful creatures who wander around the place calling each other bashers, berks, cutters, sods etc. etc. etc., and Ixion flamed an entire planeload of them all when someone addressed him as "Clueless". And now they have taken steps to keep planar scum out...) So blame the alleged difference in importance between outer planes as the result of good (or bad) PR jobs.... As for the Dimension of Nightmares, after having read the Nightmare Lands Ravenloft box, it just HAS to be the Wall of Colour. Also, nobody actually knows about this property of the Wall of Colour, making it truly Odd and Unique (thus the attempt to describe it as being a dimension by mortal sages and philosophers - wrongly. A bit like Temporal Prime, often labelled a demiplane despite actually being a dimension... duh!). I personally thing that explanation fits the bill better than the twisted definition of a dimension given in the Golden Box... Cheerz ROB (who, believe it or not, doesnt actually like Planescape much, because you have to be a fighter to survive, and I like mages... lol) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 18:44:23 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't >>They attempt to encompass everyone. Mystara has always been burdened by focus. First focused to 0D&D players then beginner players. >I agree that the latter was a problem for Mystara. As for the 'focused to OD&D players', wasn't FR 'focused to AD&D players' by the same standard? This was hardly an attempt to encompass everyone in the days when OD&D was still a viable alternative. All true. FR is AD+D focused. But D+D (and Mystara) is dead, and AD+D isnt. I cant see the market really supporting another release of D+D (the Challenger series was that release, and I never even heard of it until some Mystara stuff surfaced in the local shop together with the Red Steel box, so it cant have been that popular). Besides, surely most D+D players did go over to AD+D (Otherwise D+D would still be about). Certainly around here there are NO D+D players that I am aware of (and i'm aware of most of the gaming community down here, such as it is). About 50% play AD+D mostly, and the rest are split between all the White Wolf games. Its these people that are the market... BTW - hey Leroy, i'm one of those hard core AD+D players u were talking about... Ive tried others! But AD+D is the game I enjoy the most... Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 14:08:45 EDT From: Neal Daskal Subject: [MYSTARA] - [OD&D] - Subject: test Nothing special here. I'm just trying out a format for the Subject: line to see how/if the list server at MPGN changes and formats it. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 14:15:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Those B/W elves (kinda long) =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= pontificated: >Doesn=92t that sound like fish? I did provide some name alternatives in t= he >text though. >You could use the norse names rather than the English ones: Some how I managed to missed the alternative names when I read through them the first time. They are right on the first line too... - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | Chief Combustion Engineer *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 15:07:19 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Genders in Mystara Ezio wrote: >Just curious... how are things going in your group at this regard? I especially enjoy my female player (male/character) trying advances with the male player (female character). :))) NOt too bad IMC. My players tend to follow the old adage about gender and gaming (men play men, women play women - not that I enforce this or anything, but my players seem to think that men cannot realistically play women, and vice versa, because a person can only know about playing what Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:00:23 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #377 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 79663e56338fb9bd6c3980f1e4bce6db they are). IMO this is limiting, because if you think that a man cannot roleplay a woman, then how can human players roleplay elves? Despite this, though, we've got a good balance - 2 men, two women, and everyone has fun. Actually, come to think of it, I've only ever met two people who were willing to play a character of the opposite gender. How is it for everyone else? Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 12:09:26 PDT From: "Tim Ryan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Having run both oD&D and it's more popular cousin, I came up with an interesting way to arrange the two, cosmology-wise.. I liked the infinite outer planes/astral environment of oD&D, as opposed to the more closed-off AD&D, and that suggested something to me. I put AD&D in a macroplane off of D&D's astral. (Through a giant gate guarded by titans) It was a sort of combination national-park (because of the odd world laws, etc), and left-over from the days of the Old Ones. This let the two coexist, but not interact without extraordinary means. I really don't see this happening 'officially', though, especially since it was pre WotI (with the 'immortal city' concept things change a bit), and it puts oD&D's cosmos out as superior to AD&D's.. Oh well... Tim ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 21:32:23 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Immortal Servant: Valkyre Valkyre Sphere: Thought Status: Exalted Power Points: 200 Anti-Magic: 25:% Armor Class: 0 Hit Dice: 16********* Hit Points: 80 Move: 120’ (40’) Flying: 180’ (60’) Attacks: One Weapon (Longsword, Spear, battleaxe, short bow) Damage: by weapon No. Appearing: 1 (1-6) Save As: IM1 Morale: Special Treasure Type: n/a Intelligence: 1d8+25 Alignment: Lawful XP Value: 12,850 (1PP) Valkyres are the servants of Odin. They are warrior women who search the battlefields for souls worthy of serving Odin in his army of Einherjar. The Valkyres look like strong beautiful women wearing chain mail armour and metal helmets. They can fly at will, but usually ride flying horses or pegasi. (statistics of flying horses are the same as those of the pegasi, but these do not have wings). Valkyres are feared by mortals. They serve the aspect of Odin as the Immortal of Death. If mortal should slay a Valkyre, she will return on right before the battle where her killer will be slain and give him a kiss. That warrior will never be allowed to enter Aasgard or any plane controlled by Odin adn his allies. Valkyres are often found on Limbo, the plane of restless souls where they lead the find the souls of warriors and lead them to Valhalla. Most outer planar beings stay away from the Valkyres as they know that hindering a Valkyre will not only be dangerous in terms of having to fight the Valkyre, but it will also give them the eternal enemity of Odin himself. Special abilities: Valkyres are exalted creatures. Like Immortals they can spend TP to gain the abilities of 36th level spellcasters. They do not need to eat sleep or breathe. They are Immune to energy Drain, disease, aging and Immortal-level ESP spells. They only have one form and can not have a mortal identity. It takes a weapon +3 or greater to harm them. They have Anti-Magic, but are affected by moral magic. When a Valkyre is reduced to 0 hp her body perishes and her life-force is returned to Valhalla where it can be given a new body by Odin. Characteristics: Ability scores are 1d8+25, except charisma which is 1d12+2 Where found: In Valhalla, on Limbo or elsehwere Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 21:34:17 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Immortal Servant: Hellkyre Since I got a lot of positive comments on my previous Immortal Servan postst, here are a few more: Hellkyre Sphere: Entropy Status: Exalted Power Points: 200 Anti-Magic: 25:% Armor Class: 0 Hit Dice: 16********* Hit Points: 80 Move: 120’ (40’) Attacks: One Weapon (Longword, Battleaxe, Spear, short bow) Damage: by weapon No. Appearing: 1 (1-6) Save As: IM1 Morale: Special Treasure Type: n/a Intelligence: 1d8+25 Alignment: Neutral (Ad&D: Any Evil) XP Value: 12,850 (1PP) Moster Type: Humanoid. Hellkyres are Hel’s special servants. They normally look like hideous and twisted Valkyres. They are skinny and gaunt creatures, yet they are stronger than any mortal man. They ride Nightmares or other hideous creatures. Unlike the Valkyres, Hellkyres do not mainly search for souls to serve their Queen. Hellkyres perform special tasks for their mistress only and are thus rarely seen outside Helheim, Hel’s Homeplane. These creatures will attack Valkyres on sight, though few such battles have been reported. This may be due to the fact that very few Hellkyres exist. Special abilities: Hellkyries are exalted creatures who can be killed. Like Immortals they can spend TP to gain the abilities of 36th level spellcasters. They do not need to eat sleep or breathe. They are Immune to energy Drain, disease, aging and Immortal-level ESP spells. They only have one form and can not have a mortal identity. It takes a weapon +3 or greater to harm them. Hellkyries have Anti-Magic, but are affected by moral magic. Characteristics: Ability scores are 1d8+25, except charisma which is 1d12+2 Note: This is not a mythological creature. More about Hellkyries can be found in The Primal Order. Where found: Helheim, or elsewhere. Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 21:36:05 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Immortal Servant: Einherjar Einherjar Sphere: Thought Status: Exalted Power Points: 100 Anti-Magic: 25:% Armor Class: 0 Hit Dice: 10********* Hit Points: 80 Move: 120’ (40’) Attacks: One Weapon (Spear, sword, battleaxe, short bow) Damage: by weapon No. Appearing: 1 (1d3) Save As: IM1 Morale: Special Treasure Type: n/a Intelligence: 1d6+14 Alignment: Lawful XP Value: 8,500(1PP) Monster type: Humanoid The Einherjar are warriors slain in battle. They now serve Odin in his own army which he will use in the final battle against Entropy. The einherjar typically look like warriors of the Northern Reaches. Tall, blonde or red headed with long beards worn lose or braided. They wear chainmail and metal helmets and wield swords, spears or axes. However, there are heroes among the Einherjar who appear very different from the average warrior. Statistics given above is for the standard Einherjar, statistics for unusual warriors may vary. Half of the einherjar army is commanded by Odin himself, the other half is commanded by Freyja. Freyjas einherjar are recognized by their Lynx hoods. The Einherjar usually stay in Valhalla, fighting, eating and drinking, though they are sometimes sent on special missions by Odin of Freyja. Special abilities: Einherjar are exalted creatures who can be killed. Like Immortals they can spend TP to gain the abilities of 36th level spellcasters. They do not need to eat sleep or breathe. They are Immune to energy Drain, disease, aging and Immortal-level ESP spells. They only have one form and can not have a mortal identity. It takes a weapon +3 or greater to harm them. They have Anti-Magic, but are affected by moral magic. Characteristics: All abilitty scores are determined using 1d6+14 Where found: Normally only in Valhalla. Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 21:37:32 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Immortal Servant: Shadowknight I have posted statistics on these guys before. Consider this a revision :) Shadowknight Sphere: Entropy Status: Exalted Power Points: 300 Anti-Magic: 25:% Armor Class: 0 (Full Plate) Hit Dice: 22********* Hit Points: 110 Move: 120’ (40’) Attacks: One Weapon (Longsword, Lance, Mace or other Knightly weapon) Damage: by weapon (all Shadowknights have at least one magical weapon. If the Weapon Mastery rules are used, Shadowknights are Grand Masters of one Weapon and Master of two weapons.) No. Appearing: 1 (1d8+1) Save As: IM1 Morale: Special Treasure Type: Varies. All have at least one magical Weapon. Intelligence: 1d8+27 Alignment: Neutral (AD&D: Lawful Evil) XP Value: 25,250 (2PP) Monster type: Humanoid Shadowknights are humanoid creatures dressed in Full Plate mail armour completely hiding their bodies. It is said that if someone should ever see a Shadowknight’s face, he will be struck with madness. Their armor and weapons are completely black as if made my solid darkness. The Shadowknights rarely speak. When they do, they speak with a rasping voice that sends shivers down the spine of the bravest warrior. Although, servants of darkness, they are still Knights and have a sense of honour. They will never refuse a challenge, and will respect a worthy oponent. Shadowknights are the servants of Thanatos. When, encountered outside Thanatos’s homeplane they are always on a mission from their master. These missions can be finding artifacts, protecting important mortals or places, destroying special people or places or other. They often use Nightmares as mounts though some have found other even more dreadful creatures that they use. Shadowknights often work alone. However on very special missions groups of knights found led by an officer armed with a Longsword of slicing+5. The leader always has maximum hitpoints. Special abilities: Shadowknights are exalted creatures who can be killed. Like Immortals they can spend TP to gain the abilities of 36th level spellcasters. They do not need to eat sleep or breathe. They are Immune to energy Drain, disease, aging and Immortal-level ESP spells. The Knights only have one form and can not have a mortal identity. It takes a weapon +3 or greater to harm them. They have Anti-Magic, but are affected by moral magic. Characteristics: Ability scores are determined using 1d8+27 Where found: anywhere. Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 14:57:10 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why the Council of Alphatia is reasonable Alex295@aol.com wrote: >But was not Terari's downfall spurred by multiple mistakes and not solely based on the defeats in Thyatis and Glantri. And it was the defeat in Thyatis and the uprisings elsewhere that broke the camel's back. The research I did on Terari didn't show a history of mistakes. It did show one of billigerence and uncontrolled rage. So Tylion (Terari's name as emperor) made enemies in the council and his single defeat (that's what everything says--he was forced from the throne after the defeat by Thyatis) was used against him politically. >IMO the Council is not very political. The actual running of Alphatia's kingdoms is carried out by the individual monarchs. All of which swear fealty to the Imperial Throne. The Imperial Throne lays down an overview of things to come: expansions, taxes, defense, etc. Thus you have an empire. If the council wasn't comfortable with political responsibilities, we would see much of the same problems as Thyatis suffered under weak emperors. A council that unknowingly takes actions would have meant that any well spoken mage could have lead them to conquer what ever was the flavour of the day. Maintaining a large nation would require a council with political know how. Expanding that nation (and for the most part they were successful save the Thyatis conflicts) shows they had a good understanding of how to maintain those lands. A simple military could easily take what's not defended properly. >And I still think that expansion only comes from need. Either the need for secured borders, resources, tribute, or living space. As long as the mage ruling class is happy and their needs filled, the situation for Alphatia is fine. Greed plays a large part also. And because they can would be enough for many. >Still think the Council is a fraternity or "old boys club". I also think that the mages of Alphatia are pretty much out of touch with the real world. Subjects such as farming are alien to them. For that matter, a commoner's life is probably foreign to them as well. Terari shows that they would turn on themselves though. It was only his daughter that convince the council and Terari that he should step down peaceably. >IMO the Alphatians depend heavily on the size of their armies. I also feel thay like quick victories. Send in a massive force and crush the opposition. Thyatis is the exception. It is large enough and civilized enough to organize a formidable force. I think that's true but only because their military didn't have the training required for any other tactics. If they couldn't win within days, they were defeated. Terari's defeat started out as a success. He basically accomplished what he set out to do. He just couldn't hold it. I'm sure they felt Thyatis should have fallen and Terari goofed up. The idea that their military is backward compared to Thyatis probably nevers occurs to them. But look at Glantri. They stayed away from each other mostly. Why? Because they were mages and Alphatia believe they were close to their equals. Victory wasn't assured there. But Thyatis, just a bunch of non-mages that shouldn't be a problem. At least that's the feeling I get from looking at Alphatia. They were just so smart with magic that they were dumb with the military. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #377 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, June 2 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 378 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Some words on Hule Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA RISING! (and i mean it!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - Genders in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Thoughts on the 'Saving of Mystara' [LONG] Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Just what can a 12th level mage do to a Thyatian Legion? A Re: [MYSTARA] - Genders in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Those B/W elves Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? [MYSTARA] - AD&D Gods and Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 21:51:45 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri At 07.16 02/06/98 EDT, Inconu@aol.com wrote: [About Rad's comeback and the corrupted radiance] >I really doubt he will want to destroy it. He's dedicated a lot of his recent years to the radience. In my opinion, he would continue doing his studies on it as usual. Maybe trying to find a way to make it work the "right way" again. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:10:49 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Some words on Hule << Jamuga, do you think you can ask your friend what he means when he uses the comparison to Canada? Myself, I'm not sure what is meant here. I've never heard of Canada being compared to Byzantium before (maybe the Austro-Hungarian empire once or twice). I'm just curious, that's all. Geoff, who is curious >> As I've perceived it he meant that in some eastern parts of Canada the common and administration language is French instead of English, but I can ask my friend when I will talk to him next time. Jamuga Khan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:14:08 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? On Tue, 2 Jun 1998, Tim Ryan wrote: >things change a bit), and it puts oD&D's cosmos out as superior to AD&D's.. According to some of the more advanced astrophysical theories, there are an infinite number of universes out there, beyond the rim of our own universe. Some of these universes would be too large or too small to thermodynamically support life, but there would be a few that are in the same range as our universe. Real world intersects wih OD&D :) Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 15:17:06 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA RISING! (and i mean it!) SteelAngel wrote: >I don't think that Alignment Tongues were a spoken language. I think it was more of a physical language, like how you hold yourself. Those are universally known. Well they never were explained well except they were one of the languages each character knew. And for those that don't understand this response, I'm using the chaotic tongue - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 15:22:12 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? SteelAngel wrote: >HA! And 5 minutes later, the Immortals subjugate the "Gods". >Bye Bye Lady Of Pain. Here comes Thanatos. I don't think there's really much problem with putting Mystara in the Spelljammer and Planescape realms other than a few of the Immortals that are carrying names of gods. Frankly, I've given up trying to figure out what Immortals are exactly compared to powers and have just decided its more trouble to find that than saying they're gods that are called Immortals. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 14:32:58 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? >On Tue, 2 Jun 1998, Jesse LaBranche wrote: ttto be part of the Prime Material Plane which usually means that it cannot be cut off from Spelljammer or Planescaper (AFAIK). I don't think that the HHA! And 5 minutes later, the Immortals subjugate the "Gods". Bye Bye Lady Of Pain. Here comes Thanatos. Max IV Well Max, I don't know enough about the Immortals to really respond- but I imagine that there are things being over-looked here as far as subjugation goes. I'm not exactly sure what the comment was meant to imply either. Are you saying that you do think something in Mystara should separate it from the Planescape/Spelljammer systems ? Aren't the Alphatians *aliens* ? Does Mystara have spelljammers ? Later. Jesse. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 00:02:50 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? On Tue, 2 Jun 1998, Jesse LaBranche wrote: >I'm not exactly sure what the comment was meant to imply either. Are you saying that you do think something in Mystara should separate it from the Planescape/Spelljammer systems ? >Aren't the Alphatians *aliens* ? Does Mystara have spelljammers ? Problems include Immortals relationship with Gods, especially the ones with the same names, the Old Ones, and the fact that the Mystaran Universe and Multiverse are really interesting. (IMO) Mystara doesn't have spelljammers as such, but there is a thing called Voidships described in Champions of Mystara. Also, some Alphatian (and Heldannic) Air ships can travel beyond the skyshield. I like Spelljammer, but I think throwing all that into Mystara would make a mess. Besides, it would mean dropping a lot of stuff that I really like. Those Voidships are neat. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:11:29 -0500 (CDT) From: Stephen Dolan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? >A player who wishes to do some DMing might be directed by the current DM to a new setting. This avoids "giving away the big secrets". Also, anyone This is exactly how i got into Mystara, I wanted to DM and we already had a DL, FR and SJ DM in our group so I ended up picking up a Hollow World Boxed set for like 3 bucks. The rest is history. Steve *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 00:14:11 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Genders in Mystara On Tue, 2 Jun 1998, Geoff Gander wrote: >Despite this, though, we've got a good balance - 2 men, two women, and everyone has fun. Actually, come to think of it, I've only ever met two people who were willing to play a character of the opposite gender. How is it for everyone else? I have played several female characters, but I have never been quite happy with them. Lately, my group has developed the "policy" that we prefer that people play characters of their own sex. Playing a character of opposite sex can work, but it often becomes a bit uncomfortable, especially when dealing with romantic interference between characters and NPCs or other characters. I don't mind playing female characters in mini campaigns or short scenarios, but when playing longer campaigns, which is what we usually do, I prefer having a male character. Then again, I am a much more experienced gamer now, than I was when I last played a female character. Maybe I should try it again. A side note: All of the players in my group are male. It would be interesting to include a female player in one of our campaigns, but I don't know that many female players who live in my city. :( Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 23:48:27 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thoughts on the 'Saving of Mystara' [LONG] On Mon, 1 Jun 1998, Jenni A. M. Merrifield wrote: >Håvard: >>2) Genders. I think TSR saw this as a difficult issue and generally left it alone. Gender roles are important. I dont think we should impose equality between the sexes where that is not appropriate. (Not sure if that is what you are suggesting, but I still feel a need to adress it) Jenni: >That's not exactly what I was getting at, but you do have some valid points about gender roles in general. snip> >I would liked to have seen the set contain one of the following two options: >1. At least two of the six characters presented as female. 2. Provision of an additional set of six female characters of the same race/classes. >Is that a bit clearer? Crystal clear! :) Actually I never thought about this before. I guess thats because it never affected me (shame on me). I would certainly agree to having more female characters for beginning adventures. My group has never used pregenerated characters, but I guess there are a lot of people who do (since they care to include them in the first place) I dont think it should be a problem to include six more characters. I think that including a cardboard and a colored illustration of a character that is probably only going to be used once is a vaste of money. Rather, one could include a bit more information of the characters, maybe enough to make them interesting NPCs if they never are used by the players. (ok, new players might not want too many pages to read before they start, but anyway..) Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 14:49:09 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri On Sun, 31 May 1998, Martin Edwards wrote: >With Lan-Syn replacing Jherek I see no reason for that alliance to weaken. After all, Lan-Syn and Urmahid are sister and brother. This is probably reason enough for the other princes not to want either of these houses to regain control of the Supreme Judge’s position, not to mention Lan-Syn’s newbie status and Urmahid’s current post as Chancellor. Lan-Syn would probably still apply for the position though. Of course, I doubt that Jherek's other wives (especially since they have both given him sons) won't like Lan-Syn as Princess overmuch, nor would most of the population of Krondahar (at least the male portion). Could this be the beginning of Women's Suffrage in Krondahar? >Giving the Supreme Judge position to Isidore or Malachie would boost the power of the d’Ambreville-Marais alliance’s voting power into the 40s. Again, I think the other princes might try to avoid this if they could. However, either is probably a good choice for the position, for the general well-being of Glantri - or at least more healthy than Morphail ;-). I just figured Malachie would make a good interim Judge, at least until the Council can formally decide on it. >Kol’s influence is probably at a high after the Ethengar war given his pivotal role. That's one way to look at it. Another way is to have all the other Princes on guard against him. After all, the population of his principality (by all means I've figured; not counting the PWA and G:KoM erroneus pop. figures) is smaller than most other Principalities, and yet he can raise almost 75% of that population as fighting forces, making his army approximately the equal of Glantri's entire wartime army! (According to figures in GAZ3, not the PWAs). I think this would make everyone a little wary. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:19:30 -0500 (CDT) From: Stephen Dolan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? On Mon, 1 Jun 1998, Galwylin wrote: >Daly wrote: >>A player who wishes to do some DMing might be directed by the current DM to a new setting. This avoids "giving away the big secrets". Also, anyone who runs Spelljammer campaigns will certainly want as many detailed settings as possible. Probably the same with Planescape campaigns... >Jeff, that brings another problem to mind. Just how does Mystara interact with Spelljammer or Planescape? From what I've heard, most want it to stay as far away from those as possible. While it may benefit Mystara, it certainly makes me wonder if fans of Spelljammer and Planescape want to mess with a setting that is cut off from them. I believe that there was some material about spelljammer in the hollow world stuff. Said kinda how to make them interact..... steve *************************************************************************** Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 20:26:57 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #378 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: eb1a74d37a076278ae9853aac8ccd335 To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 17:36:44 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: >Problems include Immortals relationship with Gods, especially the ones with the same names, the Old Ones, and the fact that the Mystaran Universe and Multiverse are really interesting. (IMO) >Mystara doesn't have spelljammers as such, but there is a thing called Voidships described in Champions of Mystara. Also, some Alphatian (and Heldannic) Air ships can travel beyond the skyshield. >I like Spelljammer, but I think throwing all that into Mystara would make a mess. Besides, it would mean dropping a lot of stuff that I really like. Those Voidships are neat. I don't think its a matter of throwing things into Mystara, its a matter of shaping what's outside Mystara to fit with it. That does mean some things will have to be removed or changed from Mystara's POV. This is my own personal look on it but adopting Spelljammer and Planescape rules aren't a problem. Mainly because, though I use oD&D rules, I've never gone beyond Mystara itself--the planes or the space. My only contact with these things have been from the AD&D viewpoint as they dealt with them several times over the years. I have a much easier time adapting to Planescape's view of the planes that I do of allowing half-elves into the Known World. Maybe we should join with the Spelljammer list in making Mystaraspace compatable with both? The designers of Planescape have given me a couple of ways Mystara joins with the planes and at the moment, I favor the Immortals being located in the Outlands of that setting. BTW, I hope these comments are seen as possible avenues to take and not what HAS to be official. It would really help to have a representive from TSR here to offer their view on these matters. We're just shooting in the dark, I feel. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:55:28 -0500 (CDT) From: Stephen Dolan Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Just what can a 12th level mage do to a Thyatian Legion? A On Sun, 31 May 1998, SteelAngel wrote: >But lookk how that turned out. And that also assumes that all those people worked ogether. yeah, they dropped a bomb on 2 cities and completely destroyed them both. It also lead to a 40 year cold war where two nations were in competition to see who could blow the world up better. And now the same type of people are starting the same race in Pakistan and India... Steve *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 18:39:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Genders in Mystara Geoff Gander pontificated: >IMO this is limiting, because if you think that a man cannot roleplay a woman, then how can human players roleplay elves? Because no human know exactly what is an elf like. A painter once asked what is the most difficult thing to draw, he answered dogs and cats. Then he was asked what is the easiet thing to draw, he said ghosts and demons. Because no one knows exactly what demons look like, so he can draw them what ever he wants to, but people are so familiar with dogs and cats, the drawings would have to be perfect. I think the same thing is true with role-playing. We know exactly what the opposite sex are like (even though we generally don't understand them :), we know the instant when they are role-played incorrectly, but we each can have our own interpretation on how to role play fantasy races. - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | Chief Combustion Engineer *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 23:57:52 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? On Tue, 2 Jun 1998, Galwylin wrote: >SteelAngel wrote: >>HA! And 5 minutes later, the Immortals subjugate the "Gods". >>Bye Bye Lady Of Pain. Here comes Thanatos. >I don't think there's really much problem with putting Mystara in the Spelljammer and Planescape realms other than a few of the Immortals that are carrying names of gods. Frankly, I've given up trying to figure out what Immortals are exactly compared to powers and have just decided its more trouble to find that than saying they're gods that are called Immortals. For those Immortals, you could simply use alias names and change them slightly. Ie: Odin=Wotan, Loki=Lokar, Thor=Donar (Brain-Donar? ;P) etc. Powers seem to be awfully static though.. Anyway, I still prefer having separate universes. There is too much interesting stuff about the Mystaran Multiverse. I think this is the way TSR are going with their worlds too. Dark Sun, Krynn, Birthright, all separated from the rest of the AD&D setting in all practical ways. AFAIK there is only FR and Greyhawk that are connected to eachother. Ravenloft is also separated from the rest in a way. Anyway, one doesn't have too make too much of a deal about it. TSR should concentrate more on Mystara and not whats going on outside it. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 18:50:22 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? On Tue, 2 Jun 1998, Jesse LaBranche wrote: >I'm not exactly sure what the comment was meant to imply either. Are you saying that you do think something in Mystara should separate it from the Planescape/Spelljammer systems ? No, I'm referring to a previous post by me that say s that the AD&D Gods are relatively weak immortals (i.e, Immortals are immune to less than +5 weapons, all magics, except if cast by another immortal, and cannot die unless killed on their home plane.) From What I know of AD&D gods, they can be destroyed by *MORTALS* and if you read the Great Net Spellbook, ressurected by them too. >Aren't the Alphatians *aliens* ? Does Mystara have spelljammers ? Aliens in the sense that they aren't from the prime plane. Mystara Doesn't have spelljammers, but you can build Voidships, which are just really big airships. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:46:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Dominique Rivard Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Those B/W elves - ---=?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= wrote: GGeoff Gander: ><whispered promises? I'm asking in terms of Mystaran history.>> >Hmm. Is there any official date when Loki gained Immortality? I couldn’t >find anything in WotI. >I think it should have happened some time quite soon after he achieved Imortality. Maybe a few years later. Thoughts? Well, Loki is a former Antalian (2400 BC) and seem to have gain immortality before the NR get colonized by them (2000 BC). Sorry I couldn't be more precise... perhaps there'S more hint about that in Hule (as Bozdogan). == ____________________________________________ Tharquil's French D&D Homepage at http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/5201 _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:05:45 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? >On Tue, 2 Jun 1998, Jesse LaBranche wrote: III'm not exactly sure what the comment was meant to imply either. Are you saying that you do think something in Mystara should separate it from the Planescape/Spelljammer systems ? >>Aren't the Alphatians *aliens* ? Does Mystara have spelljammers ? PProblems include Immortals relationship with Gods, especially the ones with the same names, the Old Ones, and the fact that the Mystaran >Universe and Multiverse are really interesting. (IMO) MMystara doesn't have spelljammers as such, but there is a thing called Voidships described in Champions of Mystara. Also, some Alphatian (and Heldannic) Air ships can travel beyond the skyshield. I like Spelljammer, but I think throwing all that into Mystara would make a mess. Besides, it would mean dropping a lot of stuff that I really like. Those Voidships are neat. >Håvard I agree that throwing anything outside of Mystara into it would make a mess, just as sure as Spelljammers and Planescapers would make a mess in RL, and DL- or any "theme setting" for that matter. You'll note that DL and RL are still in the same game with the gods of FR, GH, spelljammers, and planescapers. This is why I think that Mystara should be as well. Different multiverse ? Sure- why not ? Spelljammers can't go to Mystara- that's not going to make it fly in the AD&D system very well. I'm not seeing an incompatibility here, just that we don't include them in the setting doesn't mean that they can't be there. Just my thoughts. Jesse. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 18:09:59 -0600 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Gods and Immortals SteelAngel meandered fecklessly... >On Tue, 2 Jun 1998, Jesse LaBranche wrote: >>I'm not exactly sure what the comment was meant to imply either. Are you >>saying that you do think something in Mystara should separate it from the >>Planescape/Spelljammer systems ? >No, I'm referring to a previous post by me that say s that the AD&D Gods are relatively weak immortals (i.e, Immortals are immune to less than +5 weapons, all magics, except if cast by another immortal, and cannot die unless killed on their home plane.) From What I know of AD&D gods, they can be destroyed by *MORTALS* and if you read the Great Net Spellbook, ressurected by them too. Sorry, but your info is eroneous, unless one chooses to go by the old 1st edition Dieties & Demi-Gods. Gods are immune to any attack from a mortal, magic or otherwise, not including certain artifacts. They cannot die except on their home plane, and kill non-dieties with but a thought, even form across vast planar distances. In some ways the gods of AD&D are more powerful than Immortals, in some way less. And I doubt the Great Net Spellbook can be considered a reliable source on the nature of gods. >Mystara Doesn't have spelljammers... But those with taste will certainly add them : ) Leroy "Spelljammer is Lord" Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com ICQ #4253672 "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 18:19:46 -0600 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Rob meandered fecklessly... >BTW - hey Leroy, i'm one of those hard core AD+D players u were talking about... Ive tried others! But AD+D is the game I enjoy the most... Hey, to each their own. I certainly have no problem with it. I just have played (and own) too many good games to stick with one. Kinda like I don't want to eat pizza every night. With all the years I have been a gamer, I think if xD&D was the only game available, I would have eventually given it up, or at least lost my enthusiasm. Part of it is that I really don't think xD&D is a very good system. I think it is a bit goofy it some areas, in fact. My version is highly modified to make up for what I see as major definicies, and I still haven't solved them all (those will just have to stay, though, since they are hard to eliminate). Luckily I have managed to fix most of the problems before reaching this em passe. I can only take so much medieval fantasy before I need something new for a change. I keep coming back to AD&D for the settings. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com ICQ #4253672 "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:23:40 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? >No, I'm referring to a previous post by me that say s that the AD&D Gods are relatively weak immortals (i.e, Immortals are immune to less than +5 weapons, all magics, except if cast by another immortal, and cannot die unless killed on their home plane.) From What I know of AD&D gods, they can be destroyed by *MORTALS* and if you read the Great Net Spellbook, ressurected by them too. Compare the OD&D Immortals to 1st edition Deities, then I think you'll see a 2nd edition AD&D Immortals revision that will do the same things to them that they did to the 1st edition AD&D Deities. >>Aren't the Alphatians *aliens* ? Does Mystara have spelljammers ? AAliens in the sense that they aren't from the prime plane. Mystara Doesn't have spelljammers, but you can build Voidships, which are just really big airships. >Max IV I thought Alphatians were from the Prime, but not from Mystara ? No argument, just making sure that I'm getting the *facts* straight. Is there some reason that Voidships could not still exist with Spelljammers ? I mean we've got helicopters, airplanes, dirigibles, and gliders- can't there be more than one method of space travel ? Just some thoughts. Jesse. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #378 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, June 3 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 379 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - The Alphatian Council Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Gods and Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Gods and Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - Genders in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri [MYSTARA] - Multi-world material (was MystaraRising!) Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Immortal Servant: White Elf Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri [MYSTARA] - Gazetteers vs. boxed sets (was To DM) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 20:42:29 -0400 From: David Brian Olsen Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Alphatian Council Haarvard, thanks for the acronym guide. Your NR exalted creatures look interesting. I'm wondering how much is based on myth and how much you have made up on your own. To answer your question, I'm going to be in Trondhiem from July 22 and stay until July 25. I'm trying to look up relatives in the area since my great-grandfather was from there. Want to help me track them down? :-) Anyway, I've enjoyed the discussion on the Alphatian Ruling Council. I'm truly wondering how much political power they have. Obviously they can have an emperor abdicate the throne, but are they just an "old boys club" or a real legislative body? If they do have considerable political power, imagine the machinations involved in the Alphatian court. We're always so concerned with Glantri and it's handful of mages on the ruling council and the massive political wheelings and dealings they have there. Now multiply that by a hundred times and you have a picture of the Alphatian Grand Council! I see a huge place of political intrigue that's generally ignored. If those wizards are only half as paranoid as there Glantrian counterparts, there must be a treasure trove of adventures springing from this organization. - -David *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 21:27:58 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Gods and Immortals On Tue, 2 Jun 1998, Leroy Van Camp III wrote: >In some ways the gods of AD&D are more powerful than Immortals, in some way less. Thanks for cluing this non-AD&D'er into the nature of AD&D gods. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 21:32:44 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? On Tue, 2 Jun 1998, Jesse LaBranche wrote: >I thought Alphatians were from the Prime, but not from Mystara ? No argument, just making sure that I'm getting the *facts* straight. Alphatians are from an outer plane, called Old Alphatia. The Alphatians of that plane conquered the entire place, and filled it with breatheable air, so interplanetary travel was feasible with only airships. >Is there some reason that Voidships could not still exist with Spelljammers But then again, a Voidship might just be a SpellJammer. What exactly makes a spelljammer different than just a Fantasy spacebound vessel, like the Princess Ark (After the Thothian enchantment) Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 20:37:50 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? SteelAngel wrote: >No, I'm referring to a previous post by me that say s that the AD&D Gods are relatively weak immortals (i.e, Immortals are immune to less than +5 weapons, all magics, except if cast by another immortal, and cannot die unless killed on their home plane.) From What I know of AD&D gods, they can be destroyed by *MORTALS* and if you read the Great Net Spellbook, ressurected by them too. Well, I think WotI depowered or powered-up the Immortals (depending on how you look at it). They and other powers are essentially killable provided its on their home plane (which is a problem for me as I don't know what plane that is for Immortals). WotI really gave rise to lots of questions for those of us unclueless about the planes. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 20:50:30 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Gods and Immortals Leroy Van Camp III wrote: >In some ways the gods of AD&D are more powerful than Immortals, in some way less. The very crux of my confusion. But on another look at this, the Norse myths seem to have a much stronger hold in Mystara than other settings I've seen. Odin, Thor, Alfheim, etc. are all from those myths. So if anyone was interested in Mystara and Planescape, I would probably place Pandius along the outer ring of the Outlands near Ysgard (or the ring that dampens psionics). Asgard and Alfheim are located in Ysgard and its a Plane of Chaos where glory is held in high regard. I think it would fit Pandius well and not require any change other than it exist in a different universe (or dimension. I forget which). I just dislike separate universes (or dimensions) as an explanation for everything. Blame DC Comics for that! - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 21:59:35 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? At 09:32 PM 6/2/98 -0400, SteelAngel wrote: OOn Tue, 2 Jun 1998, Jesse LaBranche wrote: >>I thought Alphatians were from the Prime, but not from Mystara ? No argument, just making sure that I'm getting the *facts* straight. >Alphatians are from an outer plane, called Old Alphatia. The Alphatians of that plane conquered the entire place, and filled it with breatheable air, so interplanetary travel was feasible with only airships. Well, actually, according to M1 "Into the Maelstrom" and other sources, the Alphatians come from the Prime and in fact the same universe as Mystara. I know later sources contradict this, but I still like them being from the same universe...along with the Federation... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 22:45:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Leroy Van Camp III pontificated: >Mystara is generic fantasy [1], and despite the opinions of some on this list has a lot in common with GH and FR, even Birthright. Overall, they do not differentiate themselves greatly from the core ideas presented by the xD&D system. If looked at from a distance, these settings start to blur together. I think that is the biggest problem in the attempt to resurrect Mystara. I have been thinking since Bruce Heard posed the question couple of months ago. What make Mystara unique? And I really can't think up anything that can be easily described. This would be even a greater problem when Birthright's relaunch will make it more of a "standard" game world, which mean TSR will have 3 generic fantasy worlds, with not much room for Mystara. >To sell Mystara to the masses those things that shine through these stereotypes need to be brought forth and accentuated. Alphatia is a land ruled by wizards, complete with flying ships and common magic? Big deal, so is Halrua on Toril, plus similar other countries in half a dozen game worlds. But... these wizards are aliens! "Born on another world destroyed by the workings of a madman, they crossed the void of space to find a new home. But that madman never forgot, and he seeks to complete his work..." But is that really a big difference? Is that enough to make them unique and players to buy it? Do people even remember Alphatians are aliens after playing with them a while? >If TSR was to release Mystara, they would have to advertise it properly. Don't give us ads saying "Karameikos, a land filled with opportunity, waiting for heroes..." Oh no, that's standard fare, a big ol' snoozefest. Tell us about "A land where horror awaits at the edges of civilization, while conquerers impose their will on those who know the truth [2]" Which do you think will draw people's interest? Sorry, but the second one is not that different from the standard fantansy either. I'm probably going to be visited by several assassins in the next few nights for saying this :), but I just thought up something that might make Mystara more unique. Instead of trying to get TSR to relaunch it at around AC1000 or 1010, move the relaunch game world time several hundred years later. When magic has drained more and technology is on the rise again. Making Mystara a more of a fantasy-tech type of campaign (or any other type of campaign world that TSR felt they need at the time, just have to change the future events of Mystara to fit it). And if that is a success, we can then persuade WotC/TSR to release materials on Mystara around AC1000, as "The Legends of Mystara" campaign or something like that. Basicly, "sacrificing" the future timeline of Mystara to increase the chance of "present Mystara" to be republished. Another similar idea is try to relaunch Mystara in the Blackmoor era first, and thus hook it on to a more famous name. And if that is sucessful, get TSR to publish more AC1000 stuff as Blackmoor 4000 or something like that. Come to think of it, the second idea is probably better than the first one, as if TSR can get Dave Arnason back, it might generate some interest among the general gaming population of a Blackmoor campaign. - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | Chief Combustion Engineer UVa, Material Science Dept. | Advanced Materials Specialist IPM Lab | CEA of LNT Committee (804) 984-3789 | -SEMO International Racing Team Leroy Van Camp III pontificated: >Daly meandered fecklessly... >>Also, anyone who runs Spelljammer campaigns will certainly want as many detailed settings as possible. >I can certainly attest to this, since this the how I came to be a Mystara fan. >While I agree attracting new gamers and older fans of Mystara is a key to the resurrection of Mystara, don't count out fans of other worlds completely. There are a fair number of hard-core AD&D gamers (those that only play AD&D, no other RPG's, a phenomenon I can't hardly fathom : ) who invest their money into more than one setting. Anyone who has looked at my RPG collection list on my site understands what I mean. Some people just spend far too much money on games... : ) >Mystara is generic fantasy [1], and despite the opinions of some on this list has a lot in common with GH and FR, even Birthright. Overall, they do not differentiate themselves greatly from the core ideas presented by the xD&D system. If looked at from a distance, these settings start to blur together. II am sure some people will disagree, possibly even be outraged by that statement, but lets face it, it's a bunch of elves and dwarves, warriors and wizards, pretty much doing what you expect them do. Wizards experiment and scheme, warriors smite their enemies and look for glory. Elves live in forests, dwarves live in the ground. These are the fantasy stereotypes and Mystara is chock full of them. >To sell Mystara to the masses those things that shine through these stereotypes need to be brought forth and accentuated. Alphatia is a land ruled by wizards, complete with flying ships and common magic? Big deal, so is Halrua on Toril, plus similar other countries in half a dozen game worlds. But... these wizards are aliens! "Born on another world destroyed by the workings of a madman, they crossed the void of space to find a new home. But that madman never forgot, and he seeks to complete his work..." >Word that a bit better, slap it in big print on an advertisement with good, eye-catching art in Dragon and other magazines and you will get people's attention. Sure it's just a big country filled to the gills with wizards (can't swing a dead cat...), but their wizards from another world, baby! >If TSR was to release Mystara, they would have to advertise it properly. Don't give us ads saying "Karameikos, a land filled with opportunity, waiting for heroes..." Oh no, that's standard fare, a big ol' snoozefest. Tell us about "A land where horror awaits at the edges of civilization, while conquerers impose their will on those who know the truth [2]" Which do you think will draw people's interest? >Hell, just an excellent full page illustration of an albino elf ( I think Brom would be an excellent choice here) in an underground setting would catch people's attention. "What's a drow?" TTo sum up: Mystara is a fascinating world with an amazing amount of potential, and I don't think TSR ever exploited it nearly a much as they could. The adverts for the AD&D boxed sets bored me to tears. The boxed set for Karameikos, while decent, didn't have the flavor of the Gaz. If TSR takes the same approach as selling FR or GH, it will probably fail again. >[1] Don't take my usage of the term of "generic" to imply negativity. >I like generic fantasy. It is simply the term I use for standard xD&D worlds (standard elves and dwarves, etc.) >[2] In the most succesful Mystara campaign I ran I really >emphasized the gothic horror of the uncivilized areas of Karameikos, using a lot of werewolves and vampaires and such. The players came to discover that the Thyatians were shooting themselves in the foot with their disdain for the superstitious ways of the Traladara, since the natives knew so much more about the dangers than their conquerers. I decided that certain things about vamps and wolfies were not common knowledge throughout the world, like the use of silver or stakes. Many Traladara knew, especially the gypsies that most Thyatians lookd down on. >Leroy Van Camp III >malacoda@lesbois.com >owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com >ICQ #4253672 >"You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MMST3K >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | Chief Combustion Engineer UVa, Material Science Dept. | Advanced Materials Specialist IPM Lab | CEA of LNT Committee (804) 984-3789 | -SEMO International Racing Team *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 19:56:28 -0700 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Genders in Mystara At 06:44 PM 6/2/98 +1000, Anakin wrote: >Jenni A. M. Merrifield wrote: >>>I could easily see some young boys refusing to play 'a Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 00:18:46 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #379 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 4e89c1089dbd62e28d4b12ca272b3f39 >>>girl'. (Note, however, that in the existing scenario any girl in the group is likely to be forced to play as a male, regardless of her wishes.) >Well I play in an atypical group then, an all male group (for the moment) in which at least to of the players always play female characters.....[...] No, I wouldn't necessarily suggest that your group is atypical. It sort of depends on how old you and your group members are and how long you've all been playing for. I was refering more to beginning players, especially from the '10 to 13 age bracket' (The 'Intro to AD&D' set is for 'ages 10 and up') when I said that I could see "some young boys refusing to play 'a girl'". I remember a male friend and fellow Role Player I knew about 10 years who was *very* good at playing female characters, right down to flirtation and innuendo when required. So there are obviously some Role Players that can play cross-gender. I must admit that among the people I play D&D with (3 women and 4 men, arranged into 3 'games' of 5 each [including the DM], all of us between 20 and 30), we've had brief stints where males try to play females or vice-versa, but it has never lasted for long. Generally, we all seem to find it more difficult to 'believably' play a cross-gender character. Especially since our group is most compelled by the 'role' playing -- we can spend sessions and sessions doing nothing but wandering about a town interacting with each other and with the NPC's ;-) Jenni - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs strawberry@jamm.com <==> http://www.jamm.com/ <------------------------------------------------------------------> God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. Then God started to think: "I should create things *I* like!" And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 20:23:02 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? >Well, I think WotI depowered or powered-up the Immortals (depending on how you look at it). They and other powers are essentially killable provided its on their home plane (which is a problem for me as I don't know what plane that is for Immortals). WotI really gave rise to lots of questions for those of us unclueless about the planes. This has been a Galwylin© Production >From an AD&D standpoint- the home plane of a Deity would be their plane of origin (IE.Mystara in the case of Immortals), until they established themselves on another plane. Example: Say an Immortal from Soderfjord were to take up residence in Valhalla. His home plane would change to Valhalla, but until he chose to separate from the Prime his home plane would be considered Mystara. Jesse. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 23:33:36 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? On Tue, 2 Jun 1998, Galwylin wrote: >provided its on their home plane (which is a problem for me as I don't know what plane that is for Immortals). WotI really gave rise to lots Upon becoming Immortal, All Immortals choose a Home Plane, usually An outer plane, close to the Astral. In WoTI, they describe a few planes that are home to many immortals from the spheres. IMC, I use the Multiple Manifestation forms with multiple powers rules (but you only get 4 per form) And a self made rule that an immortal can change his Home Plane for the cost (in PP) of changing the attributes of his old home plane and his new plane. So, say Ixion wanted to move his home plane from Plane A to Plane B. He'd have to spend Enough PP to change Plane A so that it is no longer his home, and spend the PP to make the new plane his home. The Immortals Codex never described how to change Home Planes, so I figure that this is the best way to alliviate this dificulty. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 23:38:02 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? On Tue, 2 Jun 1998, Daly wrote: >Well, actually, according to M1 "Into the Maelstrom" and other sources, the Alphatians come from the Prime and in fact the same universe as Mystara. Isn't the Prime Plane just one universe? I Think having the federation being in the same universe as Mystara is kinda cool. Plus it gives all those "Powergaming Spelljammers" Something to watch out for. Agh! 500 D-Bots off the port bow!! Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 20:42:35 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? >Jesse wrote: >>Is there some reason that Voidships could not still exist with Spelljammers >But then again, a Voidship might just be a SpellJammer. What exactly >makes a spelljammer different than just a Fantasy spacebound vessel, like >the Princess Ark (After the Thothian enchantment) MMax IV I'm not majorly into SJ, but I do know that SJ ships travel through the use of spell-power by mages and clerics (maybe psionicists now too- don't know). They wear a helm that makes them virtually part of the vessel and the higher their int/wis, the faster they can make the vessel go. When you say that the Alphatians are airships- I keep thinking about dirigibles, so I'm not sure if they're anything alike or not. Jesse. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 00:11:25 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? On Tue, 2 Jun 1998, Shin Chyang Yu wrote: >chance of "present Mystara" to be republished. Another similar idea is try to relaunch Mystara in the Blackmoor era first, and thus hook it on to a more famous name. And if that is sucessful, get TSR to I'd go for that! Just call it Mystara: Blackmoor. - -- "Captain, FSS Beagle in orbit around Carina III." "What's it like down there, Commander?" "Heavily forested continents to the south, sir. Evidence of primitive civilizations. I'm getting some strange electromagnetic fluctuations eminating from the planet itself, though. They seem to be coming from about 200 miles into the surf.." *wheep* *wheep* *Warning.. System failure..* "What the hell is going on?" *bzzt* "Benekander here, sir. We have a problem with the starlight drive, the core is going crazy! We have power spikes all over!" *crackle* "Losing altitude, sir!" "Reheddrian! Get those engines back!!" *bzzt* "No way now sir. Have to effect a full shutdown or you won't have to worry about landing. There won't be much left!" *wheep* *wheep* *Warning.. Critical orbit reached. Atmospheric entry in 1 minute..* "Damnit.. All non essential personnel to stasis units! Comm, get us down softly! Lieutenant, Send out a priority ONE Distress call! Rheddrian, get on the ball!" "We're not going to make it, are we sir?" "We'll make it, Lieutenant. I promise..." <> *wheep* *wheep* *Impact in 4.. 3.. 2.. 1....* Then comes the Tag line: "A world of wild magic and alien superscience.. Mystara: Blackmoor.." - -- Max IV - I'd buy it! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 21:11:40 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? >On Tue, 2 Jun 1998, Daly wrote: >>Well, actually, according to M1 "Into the Maelstrom" and other sources, the Alphatians come from the Prime and in fact the same universe as Mystara. >Isn't the Prime Plane just one universe? Max IV No, that's where the term "multiverse" came from. Under planar theories universes are limited in size, but planes are not. You can go through a "wormhole" and travel from one universe to another, but still be on the prime material plane. Universes in Universes are Multiverses. Different planes are more like different dimensions than different universes. I like to use tolkien as one of the examples here: When the One Ring was worn, and characters "faded" they were not in a different Universe, but they were on a different dimension. In AD&D we call that a plane. (In this example the Ethereal Plane, or more properly the Plane of Shadows- but Ethereal is close enough for practical purposes). Had wearing the ring taken someone to a different universe, they'd probably be in a different location on the Prime Material Plane. Jesse. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 00:15:05 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri In a message dated 98-06-01 12:18:39 EDT, Alex295@aol.com writes: >BTW- I am always intrigued how Mark of Amber is so well received while the oother AD&D Mystara products are shunned. They are all basically reboxes of the Gaz's and X2 with a few tweaks to update them. The difference is the quality. A lot of background infomation not available from other sources is included. More importantly, that CD is actually good -- instead of dialog among player characters, you get the voices of the d'Ambreville NPCs along with enough music to set the tone of Castle Sylaire and New Averoigne. _Mark of Amber_ was worth its price; G:KoM and K:KoA were not. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 00:14:55 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri In a message dated 98-06-01 10:45:34 EDT, solmyr@kolumbus.fi writes: >I don't think Sigmund would be Jaggar's favorite choice for a successor. At lleast not unless Sigmund becomes *much* more militarily oriented. But really, there is a very obvious way for Jaggar to regain his title. Actually Sigmund is Jaggar's only choice for successor -- his wife is dead and his other son is not a wizard. I would agree that he would prefer to hang on to power as long as possible -- but if he is ruled incapable of doing so, the best thing to do would be to throw whatever influence he still has behind his son and successor -- no other course of action would make sense for him. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 00:15:07 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Multi-world material (was MystaraRising!) One possibility to consider might be "multi-world" supplements. Take the "Al-Qadim" setting of a few years ago as an example. As originally presented, it was definitively set within the Forgotten Realms. But had Mystara been an AD&D setting at the time, it would have been a fairly simple matter to add a chapter detailing the usage of this material for adventures in Ylaruam on Mystara -- then they could have sold the same material to Mystara fans as well as FR fans. Maybe they should consider a similar approach for future products? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 00:15:10 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Immortal Servant: White Elf I am surprised that Frey was not mentioned in this description -- he is often considered the patron of light elves in Norse mythology. It does remind me of a common conversation between a Heldannic druid NPC in one of my campaigns and any elf she happened to encounter: Druid: Greetings! I serve your patron lord Frey. Elf: Frey? Who is that? In all of her wanderings she never did run into an elf who served her lord Frey.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 00:14:58 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri In a message dated 98-06-01 11:41:47 EDT, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no writes: >I didnt really like that stuff about Jaggar losing his title becuase he llost his arm. To me that sounds a bit..game mechanical.. I mean since you can't cast spells you are no longer a magic user? well maybe. Doesn't Harald of Haaskins have a crippled arm? Good point -- and it suggests yet another likely solution to Jaggar's problem. He is unable to cast spells until he learns one-handed casting, either from Harald or on his own. But since he has not lost his talent, his noble titles and charges are in no legal danger. Even if he gets that artificial arm, he will still need a period of time for recuperation and spellcasting therapy. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 00:15:09 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Gazetteers vs. boxed sets (was To DM) In a message dated 98-06-01 13:19:19 EDT, rmunch@easynet.co.uk writes: >Hey DM, I'm fascinated. What is so bad about G:KoM? I havnt got the ooriginal Glantri gaz so I can't compare it. But IMHO K:KoA is superior to the old Karameikos gaz (Ive got both of those...). Its a reprint with far superior presentation... >And I think that G:KoM is better still. Is the original Glantri gaz that brilliant that it makes G:KoM pale into insignificance? Let's put it this way: In the 1980s TSR published the gazetteers for less than $10 apiece. They gave totally original information and excellent maps. For a while we were able to get a new gazetteer every two months. In the 1990s TSR published the boxed sets for about $30 apiece. Much of the information was rehashed from the earlier gazetteers, and owners of the gazetteers plus the PWAs and WotI would have found little new information. To make matters worse, these boxed sets came out less frequently than the old gazetteers, and even with the first boxed set the future of the Mystara product line was already in doubt. And of course the CDs, to use a word just coming into vogue at the time, sucked. Even if the newer boxed sets were superior to the older gazetteers, would anyone seriously suggest that they were three times as valuable? You might argue that I am not allowing for inflation, but inflation has been relatively low for the past decade -- there is no question that the boxed sets were far more expensive than the gazetteers. But as I mentioned a while back the thing I found annoying was that TSR made no attempt to capture any of Mystara's unique features in the conversion from D&D to AD&D -- they just forced it to fit the AD&D mold, regardless of the consequences. They should have at least given Mystara as much room for uniqueness as they gave Athas. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #379 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, June 3 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 380 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] -Alphatian Council Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - Multi-world material (was MystaraRising!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Why the Council of Alphatia is reasonable [MYSTARA] - A trivial matter in the NR [MYSTARA] - A trivial matter in the NR Re: [MYSTARA] - Gazetteers vs. boxed sets Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - Multi-world material (was MystaraRising!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - The Alphatian Council and FR Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] a trivial matter in the NR Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Gods and Immortals [MYSTARA] - Sylvan Realm Re: [MYSTARA] - The Alphatian Council and FR Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Gods and Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - Genders in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 00:14:56 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] -Alphatian Council In a message dated 98-06-01 11:26:41 EDT, Alex295@aol.com writes: >Honor Island should be pointed to especially since all of its human iinhabitants are mages. Not "all" but a very high percentage -- some are clerics or druids, and a very few cannot cast spells at all. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 00:15:13 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Almanac/Glantri In a message dated 98-06-01 14:19:58 EDT, solmyr@kolumbus.fi writes: >Well, IIRC the sons don't hate each other (Ralindi even tried to find and rrescue Rejladan when he was trapped by Sinaria Verlien). It is conceivable that one brother will rule while the other will simply continue magical research. IMO Rejladan could be a good candidate to continue studying somewhere quietly - and we in fact could have our newest user of the Radiance! (Sinaria trapped him because he had some knowledge of that) The sons do not hate each other -- but the wives do. It is the mundaner wives that I would see as the ones committing the murders in question. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 00:32:00 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? On Tue, 2 Jun 1998, Jesse LaBranche wrote: >universes are limited in size, but planes are not. You can go through a "wormhole" and travel from one universe to another, but still be on the prime material plane. Universes in Universes are Multiverses. Different planes are more like different dimensions than different universes. I like to use tolkien as one of the examples here: Ahh. I see what the misunderstanding is. Let me Quote from one of my favorite plane travelling Immortals: "A plane can be of any size, from a coffin sized box to an almost infinite universe. Inside these planes, the content is decided by the creator of the plane, it could be the regular stars/planets arrangement, or even filled with strawberry Jell-O. The Prime Plane is a Universe-sized plane sitting inside the ethereal plane. Surrounding the Prime are 4 universe sized planes: Fire, Water, Earth, And Air. This whole conglomeration is a subset of the Astral plane. Beyond the astral plane, there are an infinite number of Outer planes, some complex as universes, some simple as an Immortal's Mansion. This constitutes the Multiverse. Think of all the Multiverse as a plate. Stacked on top of, and below the muliverse are other "plates". These signify different Dimensions. They all look the same in the big picture, but different dimensions actually can have very different laws. In some dimensions, NO Magic works, even Immortal Magic. In others, All your dreams come true, In still others, what exists is only in your mythology. The difference between Dimensions and planes is that a dimension is a Multiverse, which includes a copy of the prime, Ethereal, Astral, Elemental, and all outer planes. In fact, Every Dimension is really a carbon copy of every other Multiverse on the grand scale. It's the content, and basic laws of existance that change." Max IV - From interviews with Sinbad. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 00:15:20 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? On Tue, 2 Jun 1998, Jesse LaBranche wrote: >When you say that the Alphatians are airships- I keep thinking about dirigibles, so I'm not sure if they're anything alike or not. Nah. Alphatian airships are like flying square rigger boats. But that's just the basic kind. They can be literally of any shape imaginable. But they aren't powered by a headset. They are usually powered by some magic dynamo, or other engine type. (Or in the case of the Heldanners' Warbirds, an Immortal Artifact.) Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 21:47:12 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Multi-world material (was MystaraRising!) Kaviyd wrote: >One possibility to consider might be "multi-world" supplements. Take the "Al-Qadim" setting of a few years ago as an example. As originally presented, it was definitively set within the Forgotten Realms. But had Mystara been an AD&D setting at the time, it would have been a fairly simple matter to add a chapter detailing the usage of this material for adventures in Ylaruam on Mystara -- then they could have sold the same material to Mystara fans as well as FR fans. Maybe they should consider a similar approach for future products? Well, I know about "me-too" posts- but this is really the best idea that I've read yet about making Mystara fit with the rest of the settings. Also, people with their favorite setting could bring elements that they like into it- ensuring that the "quality" products stay available. Jesse. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 00:48:17 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why the Council of Alphatia is reasonable In a message dated 98-06-01 18:20:20 EDT, rmunch@easynet.co.uk writes: >Thats a lot of wizards. The Realms Truly Pales compared to that. Netheril probably is comparable - and Netheril is gross. Netheril is comparable in many ways to "Old Alphatia" (i.e., the extraplanar kingdom destroyed by that Air/Fire dispute). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 00:48:42 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - A trivial matter in the NR In a message dated 98-06-01 19:27:10 EDT, galwylin@airnet.net writes: >On a side note, what do people think of Ierendi losing its Hawaii aspect aand go for the Celtic traditions of Britian? I want Celts somewhere but don't find many suitable spots. The Isle of Dawn perhaps? That is certainly a possibility. More likely would be the Hinterlands (the part of Davania conquered by the Thyatians -- they even have their own "spear in the stone"!) or Robrenn on the Savage Coast. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 00:48:41 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - A trivial matter in the NR In a message dated 98-06-01 18:45:17 EDT, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no writes: >The Celts OTOH did use horned helmets. They ccared more about looking good (intimidating) than actually surviving the battle. Still, horned helmets are pretty cool. Do the Norsemen have horned helmets in your campaigns? I've been wondering about whether I should use this stuff IMC or stay with what was found in the real world. Based on what you said, warriors from the Northern Reaches should not have horned helmets -- but those from Robrenn and the Hinterlands should. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 22:19:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Adam Curtis Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gazetteers vs. boxed sets Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: >Let's put it this way: >In the 1980s TSR published the gazetteers for less than $10 apiece. [Boxes $30 apiece] I'd rank these as the major superior traits of Gazetteers: they had an incredible amount of information, almost equal to that found in the "superior" boxed sets, for a third the price and an eighth of the physical bulk. TSR obviously counted on the popularity of the Mystara setting to pick up with its conversion to AD&D, and they probably switched to the boxed sets because they expected them to sell almost as well in volume (at thrice the price) as the Gazetteers had. Surprise! The boxes flopped around like fish on a hook. TSR also published Gazetteer format texts for the Forgotten Realms, also quite popular if I remember correctly. Now TSR's trying the convert-all-settings-to-boxes again with TWO boxed sets detailing the Empires of the Sands (it only took one excellent and cheaper Gazetteer to do that before). All things considered, TSR is crazy if it doesn't bring back the Gazetteer format at least for some settings. Sure, they're cheaper than boxes, but they're also cheaper to produce and will achieve a far wider circulation than boxes ever will. I'm not an economist, but it seems likely TSR will reap more profits from these concise publications. >And of course >the CDs, to use a word just coming into vogue at the time, sucked. Amen. If I want to listen to bad acting and crude sound effects, I'll attend the Junior High play and pay only $5 (and it goes to a good cause too). AC _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 22:22:35 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? >Ahh. I see what the misunderstanding is. Let me Quote from one of my favorite plane travelling Immortals: >"A plane can be of any size, from a coffin sized box to an almost infinite universe. Inside these planes, the content is decided by the creator of the plane, it could be the regular stars/planets arrangement, or even filled with strawberry Jell-O. >Max IV - From interviews with Sinbad. (laughing), alright, It's pretty obvious that you didn't need the "basic" course on planes... Jesse. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 01:25:48 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? In a message dated 98-06-02 03:06:19 EDT, galwylin@airnet.net writes: >LOL! I like this one! Great angle on the Traladaran's. Don't think II've ever played up their superstitious side. Another scene that I remember with fondness -- a group of adventurers (including one from a more traditional campaign world) find themselves in a dungeon underneath Thyatis City. The extradimensional adventurer happens to have the ability of clairvoyance -- and beyond a particular door he spies a group of dark skinned humanoids worshiping a spider deity. To my slight disappointment, he declines to attack the obvious "drow" -- so those Tanagoro worshipers of Korotiku survived. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 01:25:46 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format In a message dated 98-06-01 23:04:57 EDT, megst19+@pitt.edu writes: >OD&D isn't all that limiting in non-human thieves. Many races, from hhalflings to hutaakans (proper pluralization?), have innate thieving skills. When you add in all the thief-skills in the HW boxed set or GAZ13 that players can select and non-humans wind up with the same potential to be good thieves as humans. Though I personally consider dwarves above that sort of behavior, having to defend my favorite group. -- Mischa Actually that illustrates my point quite well -- the examples you cite are basically Fighters who managed to pick up a thieving skill or two. In the particular skills that they select they are the equal of Human Thieves, but in general stealthiness they are easily overmatched by Human Thieves and by the few members of other races who can select the Thief class. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 22:29:09 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? >Nah. Alphatian airships are like flying square rigger boats. But that's just the basic kind. They can be literally of any shape imaginable. But they aren't powered by a headset. They are usually powered by some >magic dynamo, or other engine type. (Or in the case of the Heldanners' >Warbirds, an Immortal Artifact.) >Max IV Sounds like a twist on SJ to me ;-) Jesse. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 01:29:39 -0400 From: Derek Harmon Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Multi-world material (was MystaraRising!) Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: >the "Al-Qadim" setting of a few years ago as an example. As originally presented, it was definitively set within the Forgotten Realms. But had Well, by "definitively" you mean the following quote from page 10 of _A-Q,_Arabian Adventures_, "Zakhara can exist virtually anywhere that a fantasy 'Arabia' might be. Its official location is the uncharted territory south of Faerun ... in the FORGOTTEN REALMS(r) campaign setting," One long sentence, prefaced by the statement it can exist anywhere else? No particular linkages anywhere else in that book to FR? Besides that sentence, what makes A-Q a part of FR? The fact they put it someplace uncharted goes to show nobody in FR cares about A-Q, and nobody in A-Q cares about FR. Throw out the Map, keep the Rules. Viola! 3:)> >Mystara been an AD&D setting at the time, it would have been a fairly simple matter to add a chapter detailing the usage of this material for adventures in Ylaruam on Mystara -- then they could have sold the same material to Mystara fans as well as FR fans. Well, they did sell this copy of the material to a Mystara fan precisely for the reason you specify. Of course, its a simple matter to just use the material in Ylaruam, a chapter isn't that important. It's like how everyone says PHBR3,_Complete_Book_of_Priests_ doesn't apply to Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 05:05:58 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #380 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: ddeaf7c08ed4053a456caf9285fd452b Mystara: why not? PHBR3-designed Faiths fit in perfectly well with Mystara, PHBR2-designed Guilds fit in perfectly well with Mystara, PHBR4- designed Schools of Wizardry fit in perfectly well with Mystara. Every resource doesn't need a chapter specifically for Mystara to make it usable in Mystara. -- Stonelight *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 02:09:36 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri In regard to Rad and the Radiance -- if Rad becomes aware that the Nucleus of the Spheres has been altered and that the Shadow Elves have discovered an alternate way to access the Radiance without having to deal with the consequences of this alteration -- is there any possibility that Rad will work out some agreement with Rafiel to gain some sort of access by Glantrians to the "other Radiance"? So far there has been no direct conflict between Glantri and the Shadow Elves -- can Rad and Rafiel negotiate any agreement that will prevent such a conflict from occurring? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 02:09:33 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? In a message dated 98-06-02 05:52:56 EDT, vanquer@softhome.net writes: >Galwylin, If Mystara is to be added to 2nd/3rd edition- it's going to have tto be part of the Prime Material Plane which usually means that it cannot be >cut off from Spelljammer or Planescaper (AFAIK). I don't think that the relations between Mystara and other settings needs to be addressed in the Mystara products though- it should be one of those things left to the DM's. The trick here is to figure out the relationship of Mystara to each of those settings. It should be different in some way as Athas is, but it should not be so utterly cut off. Here are my current thoughts: Spelljammer: No problem here. Very little Mystara material actually excludes the possibility of Mystara being in its own crystal sphere that is as accessible as Realmspace, Greyspace, and Krynnspace. Planescape: Here I would want to have a difference. Planescape is based on a particular cosmology that is incompatible with the planar arrangement of WotI and other material specific to Mystara. I really would prefer to keep Mystara and the other AD&D game worlds in separate dimensions. But that does not require forbidding contact between them -- even a single gate between Sigil and Mystara would have a major impact on both. Mystarans would gain access to many new worlds, and the inhabitants of "the Cage" would come to realize that their own dimension is not the whole of the multiverse. My suggestion would be to set up one gate between the two settings and then play out the consequences of contact between them. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 17:21:28 +1000 From: Anakin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Alphatian Council and FR Hmmmmmmmm, I have been thinking a little on this discussion of the Alphatian Council of wizards and and interesting thought crossed my mind. Someone (sorry but I forget who) said something about getting hold of a forgotten realms fan and telling them that our wizards are better than theirs. Cross this comment with the discussion of Alphatian desire for expansion and a little too much Raymond E. Feist and you get the following idea... "what would happen if the wizards of Alphatia decided they wanted expansion. Now instead of conquering the world they are already on they decide they want something new and decide to invade Toril (is the name right???)." How would elminster etc react to a large number of 36th level wizards invading their world, remember wizards on this world have a max level of 20th.... Any thoughts... Anakin - -- ICQ #12697398 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 17:24:52 +1000 From: Anakin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] a trivial matter in the NR >On a side note, what do people think of Ierendi losing its Hawaii aspect and go for the Celtic traditions of Britian? I want Celts somewhere but don't find many suitable spots. The Isle of Dawn perhaps? This may not be close but weren't the hinterlands on the southern continent filled with a race like the scots?????? Anakin - -- ICQ #12697398 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 17:40:18 +1000 From: Anakin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Gods and Immortals >On Tue, 2 Jun 1998, Leroy Van Camp III wrote: >>In some ways the gods of AD&D are more powerful than Immortals, in some way less. Here is the way I saw and use the major difference, AD&D Gods require followers for power, the further they are from their followers the weaker they become. However immortals do not require mortal followers for their powers and can travel where they will without losing power. Also the numbers of Gods in each region are limited, Forgotten realms for instance has a set number of portfolios and the gos will never exceed that number. OTOH the Immortals are without number, the WOTI Boxed sets even says that those listed in the book are only are small portion of the immortals in existence, many others do exist they are just not overtly active in Mystra. Anakin - -- ICQ #12697398 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 17:48:55 +1000 From: shawn@leme.anu.edu.au (stan) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Sylvan Realm Hello All I think I asked this before and got one answer but since then I've obtained a copy of CM7 and I don't know where -whoever- actually got the answer from. Any way, my question is - do we know where exactly the Sylvan Realm is. Now I know generally where it is, for example I know it's - - on the other side of the rainbow - - up there in western Brun - - probably below the area of Hyborea from the old Masters set (I don't recall the forests in the region actually being coniferous) - - IIRC I think it might be near the sea or pretty close Is there anything official which ties it down more than this? My second question is about the timing of CM7. (Maybe I should have refreshed myself with the module before asking this question). The timing sort of assumes that the elves live in Alfheim although from what I can remember there isn't anything that actually ties down the module to say a pre Wrath period insomuch as maybe the elves need not actually be living in Alfheim and maybe they soon will again anyway. I'm not intending to dredge up any old ghosts with these questions I'd just like an answer insofar as one can be given. stan http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 03:37:27 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Alphatian Council and FR Anakin wrote: >"what would happen if the wizards of Alphatia decided they wanted expansion. Now instead of conquering the world they are already on they decide they want something new and decide to invade Toril (is the name right???)." >How would elminster etc react to a large number of 36th level wizards invading their world, remember wizards on this world have a max level of 20th.... >Any thoughts... As a fan of the Realms, I think I'll take a stab at this. Depending on what size the invading force is and where it begins its conquests... a small force isn't going to be notice in any out of the way place. Try to take over Shadowdale though and they'll run into trouble off the bat. Even if Elminster doesn't get involved, the Harpers are strong in that area and can muster a defense before the Alphatias could gain a complete foothold. Now a large force no matter where will be seen and someone will rise up against them. Not necessarily Elminster as contrary to popular belief, he doesn't patrol all of Faerun ;) BTW, I don't think the Realms are bound by that 20th level limit any longer. As I think Mystara should do, the Realms have molded the AD&D rules to fit the settings flavor. Also, a large number of unknown magic users will attract Mystra's (the goddess of magic) attention so they'll need to learn her rules pretty fast or have their magic completely inaccessable to them. Her rules are pretty easy though. Just don't do anything that would damage the Weave. Oh, another thing. There's lots of dead and wild magic areas. Unfamiliar wizards would have a good chance of destroying themselves if not careful. But a wise Alphatian would probably have already done research on Toril and know most of this. The dead and wild areas might be the only surprises. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 03:45:13 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Gods and Immortals Anakin wrote: >Here is the way I saw and use the major difference, AD&D Gods require followers for power, the further they are from their followers the weaker they become. However immortals do not require mortal followers for their powers and can travel where they will without losing power. But wasn't that changed in WotI? I swear that WotI has gone a long way in making the Immortals into gods. I know that any Immortal entering the Realms will fall under Ao's domain and be required to gather followers in the Realms (mandatory rule for all levels of gods). I think Ao would be like an Old One. No need of worshippers and able to do as he will with the gods. >Also the numbers of Gods in each region are limited, Forgotten realms for instance has a set number of portfolios and the gos will never exceed that number. OTOH the Immortals are without number, the WOTI Boxed sets even says that those listed in the book are only are small portion of the immortals in existence, many others do exist they are just not overtly active in Mystra. Some recent releases for the Realms have given a large choice of dieties. There's really nothing stopping other settings having more gods except things like Ao. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 08:52:05 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? >>But then again, a Voidship might just be a SpellJammer. What exactly mmakes >a spelljammer different than just a Fantasy spacebound vessel, like >the Princess Ark (After the Thothian enchantment) >I'm not majorly into SJ, but I do know that SJ ships travel through the use of spell-power by mages and clerics (maybe psionicists now too- don't know). They wear a helm that makes them virtually part of the vessel and the >higher their int/wis, the faster they can make the vessel go. WWhen you say that the Alphatians are airships- I keep thinking about dirigibles, so I'm not sure if they're anything alike or not. The helm. Which can take many forms... and is dependent on level of mage/cleric/psionicist. There are lots of variations on the theme (illithid pool helms, githyanki psionic helms, the Crown of Stars, furnaces etc. etc.). The helm can achieve "spelljamming speed" when at a distance from physical objects (Warp Factor 7 - Engage...), but im not sure Voidships can go as fast as a Spelljammer. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 08:44:05 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Genders in Mystara >Because no human know exactly what is an elf like. A painter once asked what is the most difficult thing to draw, he answered dogs and cats. Then he was asked what is the easiet thing to draw, he said ghosts and demons. Because no one knows exactly what demons look like, so he can draw them what ever he wants to, but people are so familiar with dogs and cats, the drawings would have to be perfect. I think the same thing is true with role-playing. We know exactly what the opposite sex are like (even though we generally don't understand them :), we know the instant when they are role-played incorrectly, but we each can have our own interpretation on how to role play fantasy races. LOL. Ive heard all this before (we have similar gender debates around here!). If a male player cannot be expected to roleplay a female, how can a male author be expected to write books featuring women characters? Or write films featuring women? Its the same argument... Around here there are no real taboos about gender and character. I think everyone bar one in our group has a some point played a character of the opposite sex at some point. Although PCs of the same sex are the norm. Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 08:39:18 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? >Anyway, I still prefer having separate universes. There is too much interesting stuff about the Mystaran Multiverse. I think this is the way TSR are going with their worlds too. Dark Sun, Krynn, Birthright, all separated from the rest of the AD&D setting in all practical ways. AFAIK there is only FR and Greyhawk that are connected to eachother. Ravenloft is also separated from the rest in a way. Anyway, one doesn't have too make too much of a deal about it. TSR should concentrate more on Mystara and not whats going on outside it. >Håvard I dont know whether thats true! Krynn is certainly a part of Planescape (Takhisis comes from the Abyss), and its in Spelljammer as well, although Krynnspace is a backwater, and packed with dragons who dislike spelljammers... Ravenloft has a well defined position in the Planes, and is very much connected to other campaign worlds (as it poaches people from them!) Dark Sun I know is currently cut off from planar/spelljamming travel tho, and I know nothing about Birthright... Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #380 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, June 3 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 381 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sylvan Realm Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - The Alphatian Council and FR Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Gods and Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Gods and Immortals [MYSTARA] - Sylvan Realm Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Gods and Immortals [MYSTARA] -Sylvan Realm Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Gods and Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Gods and Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - The Alphatian Council and FR Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Gods and Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Gods and Immortals ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 04:06:27 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sylvan Realm stan wrote: >I think I asked this before and got one answer but since then I've obtained a copy of CM7 and I don't know where -whoever- actually got the answer from. Any way, my question is - do we know where exactly the Sylvan Realm is. Now I know generally where it is, for example I know it's >- on the other side of the rainbow >- up there in western Brun >- probably below the area of Hyborea from the old Masters set (I don't recall the forests in the region actually being coniferous) - IIRC I think it might be near the sea or pretty close >Is there anything official which ties it down more than this? Maybe Bruce will jump in on this since he wrote the module. After looking at the module map, the map from the Masters set and the world map in the Rules Cyclopedia, its possible the Realm is surrounded by the Endworld Line Mountains at some point along the Sea of Brun. However, I think that area called the Midlands (or Empire of Dorfin IV) beside that large lake looks more inviting. It could house a rather large elven population. Wish we had a large map of Brun as a hold. Not necessarily detail except for land features. >My second question is about the timing of CM7. (Maybe I should have refreshed myself with the module before asking this question). The timing sort of assumes that the elves live in Alfheim although from what I can remember there isn't anything that actually ties down the module to say a pre Wrath period insomuch as maybe the elves need not actually be living in Alfheim and maybe they soon will again anyway. Perhaps it takes place after Alfheim comes home (if ever) and the adventure is part of the retaking of the Canolbarth Forest? I wouldn't worry about dredging up old stuff. I like talking about what's beyond the Known World and the Savage Coasts. While we're talking about these maps, I like the area in the Masters set called the Empire of the Great Khan. Now that's what Ethengar should be like. I also see a possible location for those Amazons I was wondering about before, the Matriarchy of Pelatan. Anyone know how much of the Masters map is considered non-canon? - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 02:35:39 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? IMO steel angel missed the point within there places of power GODS are unbeatable, Avatars have stats like pcs and immortals (note small I) but Gods dont! >From owner-mystara-l@phaser.showcase.mpgn.com Tue Jun 2 10:09:41 1998 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) bby phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA23129; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 12:50:26 -0400 >Received: by lists.MPGN.COM (bulk_mailer v1.5); Tue, 2 Jun 1998 12:50:25 -0400 >Received: (from majordom@localhost) >by phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA22975 for mystara-l-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 12:48:37 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@lists.MPGN.COM using -f RReceived: from Mithril.MPGN.COM (Mithril.MPGN.COM [206.66.87.8]) bby phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA22816 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 12:47:02 - -0400 >Received: from smtp.WPI.EDU (smtp.WPI.EDU [130.215.24.62]) by Mithril.MPGN.COM (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA05693 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 12:46:57 -0400 RReceived: from bigwpi.WPI.EDU (root@bigwpi.WPI.EDU [130.215.24.56]) bby smtp.WPI.EDU (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA09994 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 12:46:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) bby bigwpi.WPI.EDU (8.9.0.Beta6/8.9.0.Beta6) with SMTP id MAA20857 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 12:46:58 -0400 Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 12:46:57 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel >To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? >In-Reply-To: <020701bd8e0a$6c1d0420$e734c096@jesse> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-mystara-l@lists.MPGN.COM >Reply-To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM >On Tue, 2 Jun 1998, Jesse LaBranche wrote: >>to be part of the Prime Material Plane which usually means that it cannot be >>cut off from Spelljammer or Planescaper (AFAIK). I don't think that the >HA! And 5 minutes later, the Immortals subjugate the "Gods". >Bye Bye Lady Of Pain. Here comes Thanatos. >Max IV >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 02:53:13 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Didnt it say in AD&D Glantri box that it ws draining magic again? IMO the old one gave a shortterm fix just to show em all whos REALLY in charge!! >From owner-mystara-l@phaser.showcase.mpgn.com Tue Jun 2 14:02:28 1998 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) bby phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA05718; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:05:07 -0400 >Received: by lists.MPGN.COM (bulk_mailer v1.5); Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:05:06 -0400 >Received: (from majordom@localhost) >by phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA05642 for mystara-l-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:04:31 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@lists.MPGN.COM using -f RReceived: from Mithril.MPGN.COM (Mithril.MPGN.COM [206.66.87.8]) bby phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA05567 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:03:28 - -0400 >Received: from light.lunet.it ([195.223.107.4]) by Mithril.MPGN.COM (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA08988; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:03:17 -0400 RReceived: from Lunet.lunet.it (195.223.107.158) by light.lunet.it (Worldmail 1.3.167); 2 Jun 1998 22:05:23 +0200 MMessage-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980602215145.0096d950@mbox.lunet.it> X-Sender: lu000122@mbox.lunet.it >X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 21:51:45 +0200 >To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM >From: Fabrizio Paoli >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Cc: mystara-l@MPGN.COM >In-Reply-To: <5f2afeae.3573df2a@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-mystara-l@lists.MPGN.COM >Reply-To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM >At 07.16 02/06/98 EDT, Inconu@aol.com wrote: >[About Rad's comeback and the corrupted radiance] >>I really doubt he will want to destroy it. He's dedicated a lot of his recent >>years to the radience. In my opinion, he would continue doing his studies on >>it as usual. >Maybe trying to find a way to make it work the "right way" again. -------------- >Fabrizio Paoli >brizio@lunet.it >Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 -------------- >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 03:36:12 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Alphatian Council and FR Hey dont AD&D mages get lots more spells to choose from than Mystarans and that 18 wis for Wishes is a bitch to get on 3d6, so relatively its a 111111 otherotherotherotherotherother type of nonevent IMNHO >From owner-mystara-l@phaser.showcase.mpgn.com Wed Jun 3 00:44:18 1998 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) bby phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA08913; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 03:26:28 -0400 >Received: by lists.MPGN.COM (bulk_mailer v1.5); Wed, 3 Jun 1998 03:26:27 -0400 >Received: (from majordom@localhost) >by phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA08901 for mystara-l-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 03:26:19 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@lists.MPGN.COM using -f RReceived: from Mithril.MPGN.COM (Mithril.MPGN.COM [206.66.87.8]) bby phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA08894 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 03:26:08 - -0400 >Received: from uq.net.au (fox.uq.net.au [203.101.255.1]) by Mithril.MPGN.COM (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA19889 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 03:26:03 -0400 RReceived: from default (zzahorst.dialin.uq.net.au [203.101.251.27]) bby uq.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA09834 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 17:25:27 +1000 (GMT+1000) Message-ID: <3574F978.5479@uq.net.au> >Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 17:21:28 +1000 >From: Anakin >X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) >MIME-Version: 1.0 >To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Alphatian Council and FR References: <35749BF5.739448C0@wesleyan.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Sender: owner-mystara-l@lists.MPGN.COM >Reply-To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM >Hmmmmmmmm, >I have been thinking a little on this discussion of the Alphatian Council of wizards and and interesting thought crossed my mind. >Someone (sorry but I forget who) said something about getting hold of a >forgotten realms fan and telling them that our wizards are better than theirs. Cross this comment with the discussion of Alphatian desire for expansion and a little too much Raymond E. Feist and you get the following idea... >"what would happen if the wizards of Alphatia decided they wanted expansion. Now instead of conquering the world they are already on they decide they want something new and decide to invade Toril (is the name right???)." >How would elminster etc react to a large number of 36th level wizards invading their world, remember wizards on this world have a max level of >20th.... >Any thoughts... >Anakin >-- >ICQ #12697398 >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 03:40:50 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Gods and Immortals Read the books. Immortals do need followers or they dissipate. It takes ten years but it does happen. However if the tenets they set down are followed in their name they come back but ONLY at 1st level. Keep the faith >From owner-mystara-l@phaser.showcase.mpgn.com Wed Jun 3 01:31:55 1998 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) bby phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA09269; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 03:45:09 -0400 >Received: by lists.MPGN.COM (bulk_mailer v1.5); Wed, 3 Jun 1998 03:45:09 -0400 >Received: (from majordom@localhost) >by phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA09231 for mystara-l-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 03:44:57 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@lists.MPGN.COM using -f RReceived: from Mithril.MPGN.COM (Mithril.MPGN.COM [206.66.87.8]) bby phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA09204 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 03:44:40 - -0400 >Received: from uq.net.au (fox.uq.net.au [203.101.255.1]) by Mithril.MPGN.COM (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA20023 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 03:44:35 -0400 RReceived: from default (zzahorst.dialin.uq.net.au [203.101.251.27]) bby uq.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA25108 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 17:44:16 +1000 (GMT+1000) Message-ID: <3574FDE2.5ECA@uq.net.au> >Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 17:40:18 +1000 >From: Anakin >X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) >MIME-Version: 1.0 >To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Gods and Immortals References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Sender: owner-mystara-l@lists.MPGN.COM >Reply-To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM >>On Tue, 2 Jun 1998, Leroy Van Camp III wrote: >>>In some ways the gods of AD&D are more powerful than Immortals, in some way less. >Here is the way I saw and use the major difference, AD&D Gods require followers for power, the further they are from their followers the weaker they become. However immortals do not require mortal followers for their powers and can travel where they will without losing power. >Also the numbers of Gods in each region are limited, Forgotten realms for instance has a set number of portfolios and the gos will never exceed that number. OTOH the Immortals are without number, the WOTI Boxed sets even says that those listed in the book are only are small portion of the immortals in existence, many others do exist they are just not overtly active in Mystra. >Anakin >-- >ICQ #12697398 >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:56:03 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #381 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: ca7694ee02a33037ac63966ca4aa6279 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 20:39:35 +1000 From: Anakin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Gods and Immortals Galwylin wrote: >But wasn't that changed in WotI? I swear that WotI has gone a long way in making the Immortals into gods. I know that any Immortal entering the Realms will fall under Ao's domain and be required to gather followers in the Realms (mandatory rule for all levels of gods). I think Ao would be like an Old One. No need of worshippers and able to do as he will with the gods. But what if Ao was an Immortal who created the realms???? what then???? remember the Immortals have the power to create worlds etc... Personally I prefer to read immortals as completely different from gods. Anakin - -- ICQ #12697398 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 04:00:20 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Sylvan Realm Stan, If I remember correctly (maps at home) SR is located on coast east of the Arm of the Immortals theres a big forest there. As for timing isnt Moorcroft Elvenbane related closely to John Beaumaris-Moorcroft of Glantri (sorry about any name errors im working from memory). If so it does set a basic timelimit and IMO cm7 works best preWOTI. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 21:00:32 +1000 From: Anakin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Gods and Immortals paul dooley wrote: >Read the books. Immortals do need followers or they dissipate. It takes ten years but it does happen. However if the tenets they set down are followed in their name they come back but ONLY at 1st level. Keep the faith Hmmmm, Intreesting, I do not remember reading this anywhere? Which book is it in????? Anakin - -- ICQ #12697398 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 04:17:53 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: [MYSTARA] -Sylvan Realm Wasnt the entire map apart from shape called into question by COM? Thyatis covers all Known world etc. and Red Steel totally revamped southern Brun didnt it. The major point is though that its your own choice as to CANON (sic) its a game for us all to enjoy. As you can see from my postings im new to computers but Ive loved Mystara for years. In fact Im currently running 5 campaigns all in mystara for various groups n levels so I try to keep my OWN Mystara internally canon but I dont always follow the TSR/WOTC party line. DMs should have fun too!! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 04:23:10 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Gods and Immortals Its in either gold box or WOTI cant remember exactly will check when get home and post it for you >From owner-mystara-l@phaser.showcase.mpgn.com Wed Jun 3 04:17:53 1998 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) bby phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA13651; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:04:52 -0400 >Received: by lists.MPGN.COM (bulk_mailer v1.5); Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:04:52 -0400 >Received: (from majordom@localhost) >by phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA13640 for mystara-l-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:04:46 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@lists.MPGN.COM using -f RReceived: from Mithril.MPGN.COM (Mithril.MPGN.COM [206.66.87.8]) bby phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA13631 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:04:37 - -0400 >Received: from uq.net.au (fox.uq.net.au [203.101.255.1]) by Mithril.MPGN.COM (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA21942 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:04:33 -0400 RReceived: from default (zzahorst.dialin.uq.net.au [203.101.251.27]) bby uq.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA21531 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 21:04:31 +1000 (GMT+1000) Message-ID: <35752CD0.2B6@uq.net.au> >Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 21:00:32 +1000 >From: Anakin >X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) >MIME-Version: 1.0 >To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Gods and Immortals References: <19980603104050.28705.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Sender: owner-mystara-l@lists.MPGN.COM >Reply-To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM >paul dooley wrote: >>Read the books. Immortals do need followers or they dissipate. It takes >>ten years but it does happen. However if the tenets they set down are followed in their name they come back but ONLY at 1st level. Keep the faith >Hmmmm, Intreesting, I do not remember reading this anywhere? Which book is it in????? >Anakin >-- >ICQ #12697398 >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:29:21 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't << The fact that something sells well does not make it a success in my mind, especially when put up against a large amount of criticism.>> Any product that sells extremely well, is always faced with criticism. The president and former presidents of the US for example. Any famous actors always have their whole life put out in the tabloids. The only way for them to avoid criticism is to lead a crystal clear life. When WotC bought out TSR, the criticism about the card company taking over the roleplaying company. The same goes for Forgotten Realms. What do you consider a success if the huge amount of sales doesn't convince you? < If sales and visibility are your definition of success, Howard Stern and the Spice Girls are successful. Heck, Stern has a TV show, radio show, movie and books..talk about diversity! I doubt most people would label either a success though, seeing as how both are generally viewed in negative terms and made the target of criticism/jokes.>> How can you not see them as a sucess? Howard Stern has hundreds of thousands of listeners, is the #1 morning DJ in the world, and had two best seller books, a movie that raked in over $60 million, and is soon to acquire his new TV show, which would be in addition to the other TV show that he's currently on, which by the way is the #1 show on that particular station. Not a success? I won't drag this one out either, but the Spice girls (for a British group) sold more records of thier first album then the Beatles first record. They target a young audience and are seen as rolemodels by that age group worldwide. Many countries have them amoungst the top of record sales. They are all millionares because of their talent. Hardly not a sucess in my mind. <> The reason would be because it draws more attention because it's so popular. D&D critics wont waste thier time on Mystara or Dark Sun, for the simple reason that not as many people play these settings and therefore no one will read the journalists articles. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:42:45 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri << Good point -- and it suggests yet another likely solution to Jaggar's problem. He is unable to cast spells until he learns one-handed casting, either from Harald or on his own. >> He would still be able to cast spells that require only verbal, only somatic, or a combo of the two for components. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 12:51:57 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? >IMO steel angel missed the point within there places of power GODS are unbeatable, Avatars have stats like pcs and immortals (note small I) but Gods dont! Yeah, but Immortal stats are meaningless compared to mortal stats, if they are hard. Immortals can have an AC of -40, a THAC0 of -45 (using AD+D hit dice rules..., and a modification of Immortal stats), five attacks a round base (so more when AD+D weapon styles comes into it - and remember haste!) and capable of inflicting 150 damage per hit (Smash attacks add Strength to damage - and Strength could be 100). This is purely physical, without any magical augmentation. And with all spells available to them, that augmentation could be - significant. They wouldnt bother writing down stats as powerful as those in AD+D for Gods, because it is completely pointless. Bottom line is - the mortal is dead! (As another point, Orcus and Demogorgon are both long-term Entropic Immortals, but they are about in AD+D... I think Orcus could well be in that Dead Gods Planescape adventure) Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 12:45:20 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Gods and Immortals >Here is the way I saw and use the major difference, AD&D Gods require followers for power, the further they are from their followers the weaker they become. However immortals do not require mortal followers for their powers and can travel where they will without losing power. Immortals need followers too! Well, only 1... lol. >Also the numbers of Gods in each region are limited, Forgotten realms for instance has a set number of portfolios and the gos will never exceed that number. OTOH the Immortals are without number, the WOTI Boxed sets even says that those listed in the book are only are small portion of the immortals in existence, many others do exist they are just not overtly active in Mystra. >Anakin Dont forget that Gods are omniscient to a varying degree, Immortals are not omnsicient at all - they are just very smart. I agree about the fixed number of Gods... I explained the Immortal/God difference in this way once... Most pantheons are an autocracy of powerful beings... the Mystaran pantheon is a meritocracy. Anyone can become a Deity if they are worthy of it. Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 12:42:25 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Alphatian Council and FR >How would elminster etc react to a large number of 36th level wizards invading their world, remember wizards on this world have a max level of 20th.... >Any thoughts... >Anakin Well, Thought no.1 is that a D+D 36th level mage is roughly equivalent to a 22-24th level AD+D mage. Thought no.2 is that Mystra would snap her fingers and the Alphatians would permanently lose all their magic. Thought no.3 is that Mystra's Chosen would have the arses of any and all Alphatian wizards who invade. Thought no.4 is that I despise Mystra... lol Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 12:56:14 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Gods and Immortals >paul dooley wrote: >>Read the books. Immortals do need followers or they dissipate. It takes ten years but it does happen. However if the tenets they set down are followed in their name they come back but ONLY at 1st level. Keep the faith >Hmmmm, Intreesting, I do not remember reading this anywhere? Which book is it in????? >Anakin The Codex of the Immortals out of WotI. But an Immortal needs only one worshipper to survive. The problem occurs with the rules on strokes, because an Immortal suffers as a proportion of his worshippers suffer. And if he has only 1, and that worshipper is knocked off, hes just lost 100% of his followers. Oh, and 5 experience levels... (an entire Immortal Rank!). And he better get some more quick... Cheerz ROB (who has spent much time debating Immortals vs Gods with his mates) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 12:53:37 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Gods and Immortals >But what if Ao was an Immortal who created the realms???? what then???? remember the Immortals have the power to create worlds etc... Personally I prefer to read immortals as completely different from gods. >Anakin Immortals have the power to create infinite size universes, and modify them as they see fit (like, the Prime). A DAMN sight more powerful than what even a Greater God can pull off, Creation wise (check out Legends and Lore). Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #381 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, June 3 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 382 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Gods and Immortals [MYSTARA] - GENERAL Re: [MYSTARA] - Why the Council of Alphatia is reasonable [MYSTARA] - Genders in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - Sylvan Realm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 05:09:47 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri I presume that this concerns a net almanac that i havent got, but Ill add my tuppence anyway. Why wouldnt any mage at this power level have a Wish on a scroll for just such an occasion? If a pc canhave such then its mandatory for any 3D NPC ! >From owner-mystara-l@phaser.showcase.mpgn.com Wed Jun 3 04:58:06 1998 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) bby phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA14361; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:43:06 -0400 >Received: by lists.MPGN.COM (bulk_mailer v1.5); Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:43:05 -0400 >Received: (from majordom@localhost) >by phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA14350 for mystara-l-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:43:01 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@lists.MPGN.COM using -f RReceived: from Mithril.MPGN.COM (Mithril.MPGN.COM [206.66.87.8]) bby phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA14343 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:42:49 - -0400 >Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.33]) by Mithril.MPGN.COM (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA22292 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:42:46 -0400 FFrom: Inconu@aol.com >Received: from Inconu@aol.com >by imo11.mx.aol.com (IMOv14_b1.1) id HWETa09431 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:42:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9c5682c5.357536b6@aol.com> >Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:42:45 EDT >To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit >X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 52 Sender: owner-mystara-l@lists.MPGN.COM >Reply-To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM ><< Good point -- and it suggests yet another likely solution to Jaggar's >problem. >He is unable to cast spells until he learns one-handed casting, either from >Harald or on his own. >> >He would still be able to cast spells that require only verbal, only somatic, >or a combo of the two for components. >-Inconu >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 05:09:51 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri I presume that this concerns a net almanac that i havent got, but Ill add my tuppence anyway. Why wouldnt any mage at this power level have a Wish on a scroll for just such an occasion? If a pc canhave such then its mandatory for any 3D NPC ! >From owner-mystara-l@phaser.showcase.mpgn.com Wed Jun 3 04:58:06 1998 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) bby phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA14361; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:43:06 -0400 >Received: by lists.MPGN.COM (bulk_mailer v1.5); Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:43:05 -0400 >Received: (from majordom@localhost) >by phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA14350 for mystara-l-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:43:01 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@lists.MPGN.COM using -f RReceived: from Mithril.MPGN.COM (Mithril.MPGN.COM [206.66.87.8]) bby phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA14343 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:42:49 - -0400 >Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.33]) by Mithril.MPGN.COM (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA22292 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:42:46 -0400 FFrom: Inconu@aol.com >Received: from Inconu@aol.com >by imo11.mx.aol.com (IMOv14_b1.1) id HWETa09431 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:42:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9c5682c5.357536b6@aol.com> >Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:42:45 EDT >To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit >X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 52 Sender: owner-mystara-l@lists.MPGN.COM >Reply-To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM ><< Good point -- and it suggests yet another likely solution to Jaggar's >problem. >He is unable to cast spells until he learns one-handed casting, either from >Harald or on his own. >> >He would still be able to cast spells that require only verbal, only somatic, >or a combo of the two for components. >-Inconu >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 05:10:13 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri I presume that this concerns a net almanac that i havent got, but Ill add my tuppence anyway. Why wouldnt any mage at this power level have a Wish on a scroll for just such an occasion? If a pc canhave such then its mandatory for any 3D NPC ! >From owner-mystara-l@phaser.showcase.mpgn.com Wed Jun 3 04:58:06 1998 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) bby phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA14361; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:43:06 -0400 >Received: by lists.MPGN.COM (bulk_mailer v1.5); Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:43:05 -0400 >Received: (from majordom@localhost) >by phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA14350 for mystara-l-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:43:01 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@lists.MPGN.COM using -f RReceived: from Mithril.MPGN.COM (Mithril.MPGN.COM [206.66.87.8]) bby phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA14343 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:42:49 - -0400 >Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.33]) by Mithril.MPGN.COM (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA22292 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:42:46 -0400 FFrom: Inconu@aol.com >Received: from Inconu@aol.com >by imo11.mx.aol.com (IMOv14_b1.1) id HWETa09431 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:42:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9c5682c5.357536b6@aol.com> >Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:42:45 EDT >To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit >X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 52 Sender: owner-mystara-l@lists.MPGN.COM >Reply-To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM ><< Good point -- and it suggests yet another likely solution to Jaggar's >problem. >He is unable to cast spells until he learns one-handed casting, either from >Harald or on his own. >> >He would still be able to cast spells that require only verbal, only somatic, >or a combo of the two for components. >-Inconu >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 05:10:15 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri I presume that this concerns a net almanac that i havent got, but Ill add my tuppence anyway. Why wouldnt any mage at this power level have a Wish on a scroll for just such an occasion? If a pc canhave such then its mandatory for any 3D NPC ! >From owner-mystara-l@phaser.showcase.mpgn.com Wed Jun 3 04:58:06 1998 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) bby phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA14361; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:43:06 -0400 >Received: by lists.MPGN.COM (bulk_mailer v1.5); Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:43:05 -0400 >Received: (from majordom@localhost) >by phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA14350 for mystara-l-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:43:01 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@lists.MPGN.COM using -f RReceived: from Mithril.MPGN.COM (Mithril.MPGN.COM [206.66.87.8]) bby phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA14343 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:42:49 - -0400 >Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.33]) by Mithril.MPGN.COM (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA22292 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:42:46 -0400 FFrom: Inconu@aol.com >Received: from Inconu@aol.com >by imo11.mx.aol.com (IMOv14_b1.1) id HWETa09431 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:42:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9c5682c5.357536b6@aol.com> >Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:42:45 EDT >To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit >X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 52 Sender: owner-mystara-l@lists.MPGN.COM >Reply-To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM ><< Good point -- and it suggests yet another likely solution to Jaggar's >problem. >He is unable to cast spells until he learns one-handed casting, either from >Harald or on his own. >> >He would still be able to cast spells that require only verbal, only somatic, >or a combo of the two for components. >-Inconu >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 05:19:40 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Again read the books if you want to shift gears both versions have a maximum hd thaco and ad+d has max ac-10. its all moot anyway just do what YOUR happy with >From owner-mystara-l@phaser.showcase.mpgn.com Wed Jun 3 05:09:07 1998 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) bby phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA14833; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:55:42 -0400 >Received: by lists.MPGN.COM (bulk_mailer v1.5); Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:55:42 -0400 >Received: (from majordom@localhost) >by phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA14782 for mystara-l-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:55:09 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@lists.MPGN.COM using -f RReceived: from Mithril.MPGN.COM (Mithril.MPGN.COM [206.66.87.8]) bby phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA14706 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:54:00 - -0400 >Received: from papaya.mail.easynet.net (papaya.mail.easynet.net [195.40.1.40]) by Mithril.MPGN.COM (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id HAA22406 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:53:58 -0400 RReceived: (qmail 7878 invoked from network); 3 Jun 1998 11:53:56 -0000 Received: from rmunch.easynet.co.uk (HELO twleckuj) (212.212.64.146) bby papaya.mail.easynet.net with SMTP; 3 Jun 1998 11:53:56 -0000 From: "Rob" >To: >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? >Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 12:51:57 +0100 >Message-ID: <01bd8ee6$02c30740$LocalHost@twleckuj> MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; >charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >X-Priority: 3 >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-mystara-l@lists.MPGN.COM >Reply-To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM >>IMO steel angel missed the point within there places of power GODS are unbeatable, Avatars have stats like pcs and immortals (note small I) but >>Gods dont! >Yeah, but Immortal stats are meaningless compared to mortal stats, if they >are hard. Immortals can have an AC of -40, a THAC0 of -45 (using AD+D hit >dice rules..., and a modification of Immortal stats), five attacks a round >base (so more when AD+D weapon styles comes into it - and remember haste!) >and capable of inflicting 150 damage per hit (Smash attacks add Strength to >damage - and Strength could be 100). >This is purely physical, without any magical augmentation. And with all >spells available to them, that augmentation could be - significant. >They wouldnt bother writing down stats as powerful as those in AD+D for Gods, because it is completely pointless. Bottom line is - the mortal is >dead! >(As another point, Orcus and Demogorgon are both long-term Entropic Immortals, but they are about in AD+D... I think Orcus could well be in that >Dead Gods Planescape adventure) >Cheerz >ROB >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 05:25:34 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Gods and Immortals Hey Rob, what immortal in their right mind is gonna risk that, lots of followers is a cushion. Just keep some on your home plain where they cant die cos thats the way you made it!! >From owner-mystara-l@phaser.showcase.mpgn.com Wed Jun 3 05:09:37 1998 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) bby phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA14856; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:55:55 -0400 >Received: by lists.MPGN.COM (bulk_mailer v1.5); Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:55:55 -0400 >Received: (from majordom@localhost) >by phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA14807 for mystara-l-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:55:27 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@lists.MPGN.COM using -f RReceived: from Mithril.MPGN.COM (Mithril.MPGN.COM [206.66.87.8]) bby phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA14724 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:54:07 - -0400 >Received: from papaya.mail.easynet.net (papaya.mail.easynet.net [195.40.1.40]) by Mithril.MPGN.COM (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id HAA22414 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:54:05 -0400 RReceived: (qmail 7895 invoked from network); 3 Jun 1998 11:53:59 -0000 Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 12:54:42 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #382 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: ddcc59ea06639505ff17fb1741427b9a >Received: from rmunch.easynet.co.uk (HELO twleckuj) (212.212.64.146) bby papaya.mail.easynet.net with SMTP; 3 Jun 1998 11:53:59 -0000 From: "Rob" >To: >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Gods and Immortals Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 12:56:14 +0100 >Message-ID: <01bd8ee6$9b9509a0$LocalHost@twleckuj> MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; >charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >X-Priority: 3 >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-mystara-l@lists.MPGN.COM >Reply-To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM >>paul dooley wrote: >>>Read the books. Immortals do need followers or they dissipate. It takes >>>ten years but it does happen. However if the tenets they set down are >>>followed in their name they come back but ONLY at 1st level. Keep the >>>faith >>Hmmmm, Intreesting, I do not remember reading this anywhere? Which book >>is it in????? >>Anakin >The Codex of the Immortals out of WotI. But an Immortal needs only one worshipper to survive. The problem occurs with the rules on strokes, because an Immortal suffers as a proportion of his worshippers suffer. And >if he has only 1, and that worshipper is knocked off, hes just lost 100% of >his followers. Oh, and 5 experience levels... (an entire Immortal Rank!). >And he better get some more quick... >Cheerz >ROB (who has spent much time debating Immortals vs Gods with his mates) >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 05:39:33 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: [MYSTARA] - GENERAL Sorry about my multiposting the computer Im on just threw a relly good fit of pique. again sorry all <; P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 09:30:35 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why the Council of Alphatia is reasonable In a message dated 98-06-02 17:02:24 EDT, galwylin@airnet.net writes: << Alex295@aol.com wrote: >But was not Terari's downfall spurred by multiple mistakes and not solely based on the defeats in Thyatis and Glantri. And it was the defeat in Thyatis >and the uprisings elsewhere that broke the camel's back. The research I did on Terari didn't show a history of mistakes. It did show one of billigerence and uncontrolled rage. So Tylion (Terari's name as emperor) made enemies in the council and his single defeat (that's what everything says--he was forced from the throne after the defeat by Thyatis) was used against him politically.>> Well, DotE says that the reverses Tylion experienced were the the loss of the colonies in Ylaruam, had failed to take Glantri (then Braejr), andhad failed to keep the Thyatians out of Norwold. The reverse experienced in Thyatis was the final straw. >IMO the Council is not very political. The actual running of Alphatia's kingdoms is carried out by the individual monarchs. All of which swear fealty >to the Imperial Throne. The Imperial Throne lays down an overview of things to >come: expansions, taxes, defense, etc. Thus you have an empire. If the council wasn't comfortable with political responsibilities, we would see much of the same problems as Thyatis suffered under weak emperors. A council that unknowingly takes actions would have meant that any well spoken mage could have lead them to conquer what ever was the flavour of the day. Maintaining a large nation would require a council with political know how. Expanding that nation (and for the most part they were successful save the Thyatis conflicts) shows they had a good understanding of how to maintain those lands. A simple military could easily take what's not defended properly.>> Now to admit a defeat- Looking this up for clarity, I noticed that had Eriadna not pursuaded her father to step down the other options were to have one of the Council members duel him. The other one I had not noticed was that they could have also opposed him politically. With this relevation in hand, I would have to say that the Council is more political than I had thought. The extent of that political clout is unknown is hinted at in the description of the Grand Council. Basically it says the Council was formed to limit the power that the Emperor has, this to keep another civil war as unlikely. So I have to assume that the Council acts as a Congress or a Parliment to balance the power of the Imperial Throne. <<> And I still think that expansion only comes from need. Either the need for >secured borders, resources, tribute, or living space. As long as the mage ruling class is happy and their needs filled, the situation for Alphatia is fine. Greed plays a large part also. And because they can would be enough for many.>> Greed and ambition. Where better for a mage to distinguish himself than outside of the Empire. Halzunthram, with his campaign against the Flaems, comes to mind as an ambitious mage. The motivation with that war being to erradicate the hated Flaem. Plus you could feasibly assume that old Halzunthram saw it as a way to gain fame. >IMO the Alphatians depend heavily on the size of their armies. I also feel thay like quick victories. Send in a massive force and crush the opposition. >Thyatis is the exception. It is large enough and civilized enough to organize >a formidable force. I think that's true but only because their military didn't have the training required for any other tactics. If they couldn't win within days, they were defeated. Terari's defeat started out as a success. He basically accomplished what he set out to do. He just couldn't hold it. I'm sure they felt Thyatis should have fallen and Terari goofed up. The idea that their military is backward compared to Thyatis probably nevers occurs to them. But look at Glantri. They stayed away from each other mostly. Why? Because they were mages and Alphatia believe they were close to their equals. Victory wasn't assured there. But Thyatis, just a bunch of non-mages that shouldn't be a problem. At least that's the feeling I get from looking at Alphatia. They were just so smart with magic that they were dumb with the military >> Actually Alphatian armies should be pretty well advanced, renaissance period IIRC. Thyatis is also classified as renaissance but that sits ill with me for some reason. Alphatian troops should be of higher technology since Alphatia has been around for so long (2000+ years) and the Mystaran Alphatia is based on an advanced civilization from faraway. This could very well explain the ease of conquest especially just after Landfall. Sort of like the RW Conquistadors and how a relative few of them could destroy a much larger opposing force of natives. Or like the NATO allied tanks in Desert Storm. Both cases show where superior technology, weapons, and armor negated the numerical disadvantages. Morale would probably suck due to the attitudes to commoners by the mages. The exceptions being the aerial fleets and the regular armies. IMO mages probably go in and serve a term or two and promptly get out. I still think that the Alphatian War Machine varies from good to bad troops as far as quality goes. That occurs in all armies. IMO Alphatia places its hopes on these better units, having the lesser units follow up and hold the gains made. Looking in the DotE set book three, it mentions that the Alphatians fared badly after the tip of the Alphatian spike had been destroyed. That implies to me at least that these troop units making up the tip of the spike were the best units. Once they had been eliminated the lesser units faltered and fled. And here is another thing that I kind of hinted at earlier. By minimizing the good quality units, the ruling mages severely handicap any threat the commoners have of overthrowing the magocracy. As huge as Alphatia is, it can afford to invest heavily in quality troops and suppliment these forces with lesser grade troops. If you are going to take this territoy or that one, the good units can be sent. BTW alot of the above comes into play with the Randel GAZ. Needless to say, Randel has a very interesting place in Alphatia. That GAZ has been finished for a few days now. I'll send it out this weekend. I am pretty sure that everyone has finished with the Almanac. I will not be sending it as multiple posts like the Almanac was. There is a certain number of folk that have expressed interest and those will be sent a copy via attached file. This is not a slight against the List, more like to avoid the wrath of the List Admin. Plus these folk are seen by myself as the preview crew for the GAZ. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 15:48:10 +0200 From: Ezio Pignatelli Subject: [MYSTARA] - Genders in Mystara >Generally, we all seem to find it more difficult to 'believably' play a cross-gender character. This is exactly the reason why I enjoyed playing a cross-gender character. i would never be able to play it as realisticly as a woman, and probably it is much more difficult and I am not even so smart. Still, I had _a_lot_of fun in trying to do that, having my female friends correct me when I was going too far, etc. etc. I even had some problems with... well... you know.... my days. :))) What I like most in role-playing game is that it is HARD and DIFFICULT to really interpret a different character, one that is living in a medieval setting, an elf, or one which had his parents slaughtered by an orc command. All these things can be role-played... usually poorly (ast least, _I_ consider to be able to do that only poorly). The problem with role-pleying female characters is that we all know a lot of women, and we know how they REALLY are... we can make comparisons, and understand how bad we are at doing them. But it is fun just the same. Just another note: in my personal career as a DM, female players were better role-players. With one exception, an halfling which is a very poor role-player but is able to lead the whole party out of the most dangerous situations I have ever seen. :) Enough babbling.... back to work. :) - -- Ezio Pignatelli - Dipartimento di Astronomia - Padova Tel: +39-49-8293459 - Fax: +39-49-8759840 mailto:epignat@leda.pd.astro.it http://leda.pd.astro.it/~epignat - -- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 10:21:29 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri In a message dated 98-06-03 00:28:54 EDT, you write: << In a message dated 98-06-01 12:18:39 EDT, Alex295@aol.com writes: >BTW- I am always intrigued how Mark of Amber is so well received while the oother AD&D Mystara products are shunned. They are all basically reboxes of the Gaz's and X2 with a few tweaks to update them. The difference is the quality. A lot of background infomation not available from other sources is included. More importantly, that CD is actually good -- instead of dialog among player characters, you get the voices of the d'Ambreville NPCs along with enough music to set the tone of Castle Sylaire and New Averoigne. _Mark of Amber_ was worth its price; G:KoM and K:KoA were not. >> I will agree that both G:KoM and K:KoA are lacking in some areas. This becoming apparent mainly if the reader has access to the Karameikos and Glantrian GAZs. The main contribution the two AD&D sets offer are the updated timelines. Some of the descriptions go into more detail than their D&D counterpart. However, this is negated somewhat by discrepancies in some of that text. Price was a turnoff, and for that price they could have gotten the info together better. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 18:27:33 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? On Tue, 2 Jun 1998, Daly wrote: >Well, actually, according to M1 "Into the Maelstrom" and other sources, the Alphatians come from the Prime and in fact the same universe as Mystara. >I know later sources contradict this, but I still like them being from the same universe...along with the Federation... I agree with you. This is the case IMC because it is the most interesting alternative. Lets not force ourselves to accept that the latest word from TSR is the "truth". Lets pick what we like best. (ofcourse, not everyone has to like what I like :) I don't really see any reason why Alphatia should be on another plane. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 18:54:08 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sylvan Realm On Wed, 3 Jun 1998, stan wrote: >Hello All Hi Stan. The Sylvan realm has fascinated me since I first read "The Elves of Alfheim". Unfortunately, I never managed to find CM7. If you happen to find another copy, send it my way :) >I think I asked this before and got one answer but since then I've obtained a copy of CM7 and I don't know where -whoever- actually got the answer from. Any way, my question is - do we know where exactly the Sylvan Realm is. Now I know generally where it is, for example I know it's >Is there anything official which ties it down more than this? There is a map in The Elves Of Alfheim (the Gaz) which shows elven migration. On this map, the location of the Sylvan realm is marked. If you have the Gaz, you find the map on page 6. It is quite far north on the western side of the mountain range, probably quite close to the coast. Looks like its by the coast, but the maps is not that detailed. >My second question is about the timing of CM7. (Maybe I should have refreshed myself with the module before asking this question). The timing sort of assumes that the elves live in Alfheim although from what I can remember there isn't anything that actually ties down the module to say a pre Wrath period insomuch as maybe the elves need not actually be living in Alfheim and maybe they soon will again anyway. I prefer it to be set before WotI. Maybe in Ac1002 or something. It could be set much earlier too though. It is possible to set it after WotI, but setting it before AC1000 makes detailing it a lot easier. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #382 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 15:14:17 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #383 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: f55138aae98ef7cdd3a3ee06773abe01 mystara-digest Wednesday, June 3 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 383 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Other places on Mystara (was:- Sylvan Realm) Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Gods and Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Immortal Servant: White Elf Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? [MYSTARA] - Politicized analogies [MYSTARA] - Strictness of Copyright Re: [MYSTARA] - Size does matter Re: [MYSTARA] - The Alphatian Council and FR Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Gods and Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Sylvan Realm Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Gods and Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Gods and Immortals ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 19:00:54 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? On Wed, 3 Jun 1998, Rob wrote: >I dont know whether thats true! Krynn is certainly a part of Planescape (Takhisis comes from the Abyss), and its in Spelljammer as well, although Krynnspace is a backwater, and packed with dragons who dislike spelljammers... Things happened on Krynn during its latest Cataclysm. Krynn is now officially unreachable from other worlds. Also, its Ethereal and Astral Planes have merged into something called the Grey. Takhisis comes from the Abyss, but she had to go... >Ravenloft has a well defined position in the Planes, and is very much connected to other campaign worlds (as it poaches people from them!) Its well defined, but it doesn't really intrract with the rest of the worlds. You can get to Ravenloft from other worlds, but its pretty hard getting back. A Quote from InNomine: "Its difficult to get to Heaven, but anyone can go to Hell." >Dark Sun I know is currently cut off from planar/spelljamming travel tho, and I know nothing about Birthright... Dark Sun is cut off as you mentioned and Birthright has its own rules for "Planar Travel". It should in fact be considered another dimension. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 19:11:25 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Other places on Mystara (was:- Sylvan Realm) On Wed, 3 Jun 1998, Galwylin wrote: >While we're talking about these >maps, I like the area in the Masters set called the Empire of the Great Khan. Now that's what Ethengar should be like. I also see a possible location for those Amazons I was wondering about before, the Matriarchy of Pelatan. Anyone know how much of the Masters map is considered non-canon? I remember something from Dragon Magazine. A reader suggested ,in the Princess Ark Column, that there could be Amazons in Pelaran, just as you did. Bruce said it was a good idea and added "Perhaps there was some truth in that old gnomish map after all" (or something like that). For those who don't know what I am talking about, the first Princess Ark Article stated that the map in the Master Set was all wrong. Taking Bruce's latter comment into consideration, I would say that we can use the parts we like from the map. Ofcourse some areas have already been developed in more recent products. I agree that the Midland forest is interesting. I suggest that it is not populated by elves, but rather that it is a kingdom of Treants. (and Gr-hmm..what are they called again, those Treant look-alikes from the Creature Catalogue.) Also, there are probably quite a few other sylvan races in that area. I think it might be a good idea if Oberon moved there after WotI. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 19:16:55 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri On Wed, 3 Jun 1998, paul dooley wrote: >Didnt it say in AD&D Glantri box that it ws draining magic again? IMO the old one gave a shortterm fix just to show em all whos REALLY in charge!! That is an error(G:KoM has a couple of those). The Radience now drains Entropy. By the way Paul, could you please not quote the entire message when you respond? I dont mean to scare you off the list, but I'd reather you didn't do that :) Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 19:20:04 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Gods and Immortals On Wed, 3 Jun 1998, Anakin wrote: (On Immortals being dependent on followers) >Hmmmm, Intreesting, I do not remember reading this anywhere? Which book is it in????? WotI, the codex. Quite early IRC. Basically it says that Immortals without any followers will slowly fade away. The way I interprete this is that Immortals are dependent on followers, but specific rules were ommitted. Who has time to keep track of all their followers anyway? Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 19:23:49 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? On Wed, 3 Jun 1998, SteelAngel wrote: >On Tue, 2 Jun 1998, Shin Chyang Yu wrote: >>chance of "present Mystara" to be republished. Another similar idea is try to relaunch Mystara in the Blackmoor era first, and thus hook it on to a more famous name. And if that is sucessful, get TSR to >I'd go for that! Just call it Mystara: Blackmoor. >Then comes the Tag line: >"A world of wild magic and alien superscience.. Mystara: Blackmoor.." Nice Max! I would definately buy that :) I think having Dave Arneson working on it might be a good idea. Anyone heard from him lately? Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 19:26:04 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri On Wed, 3 Jun 1998 Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 98-06-01 11:41:47 EDT, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no writes: >>I didnt really like that stuff about Jaggar losing his title becuase he lllost his arm. To me that sounds a bit..game mechanical.. I mean since you can't cast spells you are no longer a magic user? well maybe. Doesn't Harald of Haaskins have a crippled arm? >Good point -- and it suggests yet another likely solution to Jaggar's problem. He is unable to cast spells until he learns one-handed casting, either from Harald or on his own. But since he has not lost his talent, his noble titles and charges are in no legal danger. It could be a borderline case though. Maybe people like Synn could use it against Jaggar unless Jaggar got himself a really good lawyer. That would help explain the Almanac storyline. >Even if he gets that artificial arm, he will still need a period of time for recuperation and spellcasting therapy. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 19:39:44 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Immortal Servant: White Elf On Wed, 3 Jun 1998 Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: >I am surprised that Frey was not mentioned in this description -- he is often considered the patron of light elves in Norse mythology. The main reason is that I don't know much about Frey. He was never that popular anyway, at least not in Norway. I seem to recall something about himbeing popular in Sweden, but I'm not sure. If anyone knows something more about Frey or have ideas about how to tie him in with the White Elves, let me know. Thanks, Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 19:46:58 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri On Wed, 3 Jun 1998 Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: >In regard to Rad and the Radiance -- if Rad becomes aware that the Nucleus of the Spheres has been altered and that the Shadow Elves have discovered an alternate way to access the Radiance without having to deal with the consequences of this alteration -- is there any possibility that Rad will work out some agreement with Rafiel to gain some sort of access by Glantrians to the "other Radiance"? So far there has been no direct conflict between Glantri and the Shadow Elves -- can Rad and Rafiel negotiate any agreement that will prevent such a conflict from occurring? Rad and Rafiel are on relatively good terms, so I could see this happening. Rafiel's followers may not be so happy about it, should they find out. However, if Rad and Rafiel are smart they can forge an allience between Glantri and the Shadowelves. The shadowelves seek control over the Broken Lands. I think many known world countries will feel threatened by this. Darokin for one is dependent upon travelling through that region to trade with ethengar, (and others). Glantri could help the SE claim that territory, by having Kol send forces to the region. (they would have an advantage since they are familiar with the area). This will make the SE in debt to Glantri, who in return will be able to access to radience of the Chamber of the Stars. I think Rad would be very interested in this since, without this change, the brotherhood of the Radience will be furthering the cause of Entropy, and will possibly eventually cause the destruction of Glantri. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 19:58:53 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? On Wed, 3 Jun 1998 Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: >The trick here is to figure out the relationship of Mystara to each of those settings. It should be different in some way as Athas is, but it should not be so utterly cut off. Here are my current thoughts: >Spelljammer: No problem here. Very little Mystara material actually excludes the possibility of Mystara being in its own crystal sphere that is as accessible as Realmspace, Greyspace, and Krynnspace. >Planescape: Here I would want to have a difference. Planescape is based on a particular cosmology that is incompatible with the planar arrangement of WotI and other material specific to Mystara. I really would prefer to keep Mystara and the other AD&D game worlds in separate dimensions. But that does not require forbidding contact between them -- even a single gate between Sigil and Mystara would have a major impact on both. Mystarans would gain access to many new worlds, and the inhabitants of "the Cage" would come to realize that their own dimension is not the whole of the multiverse. My suggestion would be to set up one gate between the two settings and then play out the consequences of contact between them. I think this sounds good, kaviyd. I agree on the stuff about Planescape. Doesn't this also mean that Mystara would also have to be cut off from the Spelljammer Universe? I think Spelljammers still work in Mystara Space. However, people on Mystara do not know how to make such ships. Rather they have Voidships. Its a unique feature about Mystara. Krynn has (had) Gnomish sidewheelers, we have Voidships. I suggest that there is a gate to one of the Crystal spheres somewhere in Mystaras Solar system. It is large enough for any ship to pass through it, though it has not been found yet. IMO that is the best way of linking Mystara with Spelljammer. You mentioned Athas as a comparison in several of your mails. I think Dark Sun in an amazing example of how flexible the AD&D system can be if one really wants it to be. I think it may be a good idea to borrow some optional rules from Dark Sun to describe Mystara. How about having D&D 36th level characters equal 30th level AD&D characters, using a few rules from DS to flesh them out? We could even give some of our Spellcasters a few 10th level spells. I dont know many details about these rules, so I wont comment further on this, but I think it may be a good idea. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 14:00:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Savoie Subject: [MYSTARA] - Politicized analogies >Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 11:48:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't >success though, seeing as how both are generally viewed in negative terms and made the target of criticism/jokes. The best product does not always sell the best (heck, look at books on immigration, where Peter Brimelow's racist trash Alien Nation outsells any thoughtful discussion on the topic). Racist? Hmm. Brimelow's book WAS the thoughtful discussion; did you actually read it? His conversations with consular officials in particular showed up the racist immigration policies of China and India and Pakistan other places, where an American like him, who did not get married to a citizen of those countries, simply has NO CHANCE to immigrate there. How they laughed at him over the phone for even suggesting the idea, for after all, they said, their countries had to stay ethnically pure! Faced with this survey of the consulates, Brimelow asks why can't the U.S. adopt a similar attitude, then? It seems a double-standard. He concluded with the sensible thesis that excessive immigration causes monumental problems of cultural friction from lack of assimiliation, government expense and social displacement of the natives, whereas the only harm that could result from Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 15:14:17 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #383 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: f55138aae98ef7cdd3a3ee06773abe01 low-immigration policies is a temporary labour shortage after 30-40 years, which can easily be solved by turning the tap a little wider. Also useful was Dinesh D'Souza's THE END OF RACISM (1995), and in Canada, Neil Bissoondath's SELLING ILLUSIONS: The Cult of Multiculturalism in Canada. I'm sensitive on the subject because of the heartbreaking obstacles to Quebec independence, thwarted by the Canadian federal bureaucracy's encouragement of massive immigration (0.8% of the existing population a year) and "multiculturalism" (which originally was supposed to be limited to official bilingualism) to snuff out the aspirations of the French-Canadians by diluting the referendum votes. It really WAS "money and the ethnic vote" which thwarted the 60% of Francophones who wanted their own country in the last referendum, and for stating this obvious demographic fact, the impression was left in English Canada that Quebec premier Jean Parizeau had to resign because of it. The implied federalist message in the referendum was, "This land will stop being yours, we don't recognize your distinctness or your right to exist there, and you will be displaced by non-French-speaking foreigners like an invading army in slow-motion." Immigration hurts the aspirations of a culture, it even hurts less- recent immigrants. - ---------- Admittedly this is off-topic; I'll stay off it if you likewise avoid partisan political examples in your analogies that not everyone can agree to. Surely you wouldn't have illustrated your thesis of "the best product doesn't always sell the best" by saying more Christians are in the Catholic Church than any other sect, but it's inferior?? >[The complaint about the liberal media] ignores the fairly obvious fact that the owners of the mass media, the newspaper publishers, the radio and television station proprieters, are overwhelmingly Republican and conservative in their sentiments -- David Broder Would you consider a majority of Jews Republican and conservative in the U.S.? I do not know about this. I found out that in 1993, 8 of the top 10 media corporations had Jewish CEO's. When Michael Eisner of Disney took over Capital Cities/ABC that made nine. Only NBC is left with a Gentile CEO. Yet in the population at large only 1 American in 36 is Jewish. When I used my old high-school stats and probability knowledge to calculate the chances of this situation happening by random happenstance I got (1/36) ^ 9 * (35/36) * 10 = 95.73 trillionths. It would appear that a little Affirmative Action for Gentiles is needed in America, to be sure of having media representative of its peoples. - ---Pierre Savoie (ab966@torfree.net) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 14:06:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Savoie Subject: [MYSTARA] - Strictness of Copyright >Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 09:11:48 -0700 >From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Comments on the Jenni Codex At 08:57 AM 6/2/98 -0400, Pierre Savoie wrote: WWell worth copying by medieval scribes, but I was going to mention that Jenni's epistle seemed too unaware of TSR's history and attitudes towards independent RPG creations. Why deal when you can (legally) steal? The law, TSR claims, is that ANYTHING >I have heard of (but never personally witnessed) TSR's past tendancies towards what you describe. However, I think the most important point I'd like to make about this is that TSR isn't "just" TSR anymore. It is now a subsidiary of WotC. And, as the revised Online Usage policy shows us, the acquisition of TSR by WotC has already caused far reaching changes in TSR policy. This is why I have hope that WotC/TSR might just consider the things I suggested. Oh, have things changed? That would be good news. But I have one little counter-example. Observe the harsh words of Ryan Dancey, Brand Manager for Five Rings Publishing Group which is now a subsidiary of WotC, concerning who owns the ideas posted on the mailgroups for FRPG's card-games. THIS is some piece of work!: - ---------- Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 22:25:06 -0800 From: "Ryan S. Dancey" Subject: SAVE THIS MESSAGE! - Monthly List FAQ Dear List, Having snatched five minutes from the Gods of No Time, I have had a chance to rewrite the Monthly List Frequently Asked Questions List. Starting with this month's post, you will find the following info: 1. Updated Release Dates 2. News from the Brand Teams 3. Important Sales & Marketing Info 4. Card Changes, Erratta and Banned Card List 5. Contact Information 6. List Commands ----> HOW TO REMOVE YOURSELF FROM THE LIST <---- 7. Disclaimers and Legal Text Hey! The first thing you've noticed is that there are a whole bunch of people seeing these messages! There are well over 1,000 different people reading the various lists sponsored by FRPG, and I would guess several hundred more receiving the Wizards lists. We're real glad to have you, and we appreciate your business! .... 5. Contact Information Me: 1-888-45RINGS, RyanD@frpg.com, 1-425-226-3182 (fax) .... 7. Disclaimers and Legal Text COPYRIGHTS - --------------------- Here's the copyright info in a nutshell: Anything you post to any of these lists is our property. Period. We notify you as a courtesy in the footer field that the Copyright is vested in FRPG, Wizards, or the original IP owners. You don't have to agree. You can cite legal precedent. You can get your own opinion from your own lawyer. In this regard (and only in this regard) >I DON'T CARE<. You are wrong. You cannot convince me that you are right. You do not own any rights to anything you post on these lists as it relates to our games, our intellectual properties, or those of our licensors. If you simply find this statement of the facts intolerable, you are invited to start your own list on your own servers. We'll own that content as well, but it if it will make you feel better to conduct your discussions outside the direct oversight of the owners of that material, so be it. We are not ogres. We are not "stealing" from you that which is rightfully ours. I do want each and every one of you to know what our stance is on these issues so you cannot possibly be confused or think there may be exceptions. These are the reasons for this policy: 1. It's the law 2. We invest millions of dollars a year in these properties, and we intend to wring them for every penny in revenue we can get over the long term. We don't want anyone making so much as a nickel off these properties without our express permission. 3. We want to avoid the potential lawsuits that could arise from having a written record of ideas submitted to a list read daily by the game designers. The net effect of this policy is that you will find these lists to be a source of unprecedented contact with this company. You will have the opportunity to debate and discuss our products in intimate detail, and the people who make decisions about those properties will be listening. Your voice, in a way different than every other gaming company in the world, will be heard by Five Rings Publishing Group. So, you've got a great idea for a storyline element, a new rule, or a card. You want to send it to us. 1. We want to hear about it. 2. We >DO NOT WANT YOU TO POST IT TO THE LIST<. While we own all the content on the list, you might choose to sue us to see if we're serious. We are. We will win. We will not settle. But it will cost us a lot of money, which we'll have to advance our lawyers until the case is over and we win attorney's fees from you. I don't want to float the cash. If you suggest an idea and publish it on the lists WE WILL NOT EVER, EVER USE THAT IDEA unless we can show that it was already in our database of card concepts, story outlines, or rules discussions. What does this mean? IT MEANS DO NOT POST CARD IDEAS TO THE LIST. Yes, that means: DO NOT POST CARD IDEAS TO THE LIST. If you have ideas for cards that you want to submit, send me email, and I will send you the proper form to submit them. IF YOU SEND THEM TO THE LIST, WE WILL NOT USE THEM. Don't send them to me either, unless you use the form. I delete all incoming email that talks about card ideas that isn't properly formatted before I read more than a line or two. You could have pages of really good stuff, but if I don't get it in the form I need it, >I DON'T READ IT<. ... - ------------- >any 'new material' wrapped around the bits belonging to TSR. Legally, TSR can NOT use a fan's material without their permision. (I do, however, recognize that they /may/ have tried to do so in the past, counting on the fact that most fans don't have the time or inclination to take them to court to uphold their own copyright.) I would HOPE that the new 'entity' of WotC/TSR would not resort to such underhanded tactics and (in fact) have my doubts about whether TSR really did 'use' fan's work without They may work also to "force people's hand" and force them to publish articles with TSR-related backgrounds into TSR publications. TSR cautioned SHADIS magazine not to publish any articles about TSR games -- which only made it a more interesting magazine, covering other new RPGs both large and small. ["Danger, Will Robinson! Partisan person and past SHADIS article- writer. Danger!"] TSR wants as much control as it can. You asked for an example of "stolen" work; here's a possible example: I noticed that the DMG 2nd ed. p. 22-23 had a section on "Creating a New Character Class", a way to mix and match class abilities to create new classes. But the credit should really go to Paul M. Crabaugh's article in DRAGON, May 1986, entitled "Customized Classes: How to put together one-of-a-kind characters", doing that sort of thing but for OD&D! It seems that he published his article in DRAGON, but lost control of its ideas and was not credited in any way with the appearance of a similar system in the pages of the DMG. *UNLESS* there is evidence of any TSR publication or article doing mix- and-match character classes prior to the 1986 date, or they gave him some kind of royalty for second-use of the idea for the DMG, TSR stole the ideas in his excellent article. >(This is not meant as an attack on you Pierre. It's just how my opinons stand in response to your comments on my 'Codex'. :-) Yes, that's okay, it's understood. - ---Pierre Savoie (ab966@torfree.net) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 14:41:21 EDT From: BoBoII@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Size does matter Can anyoneout there on the list who has done the math (or has a nice atlas handy) give me some RW comparisons of KW countries to the European and US equivalants? Thanks. Just trying to get some sense of scale. BoBo II PS. The movie posters should have said "This movie is as bad as Dragonheart", Or, "He's scarier than Dino", "He's slower than a taxi" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 14:55:23 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Alphatian Council and FR On Wed, 3 Jun 1998, Galwylin wrote: >rules to fit the settings flavor. Also, a large number of unknown magic users will attract Mystra's (the goddess of magic) attention so they'll need to learn her rules pretty fast or have their magic completely inaccessable to them. Hehe.. That might piss off Alphatia (The Immortal) just a tad. And if we consider Toril to be in a different dimension than Mystara, Immortals are not bound by the "Non-Interference" Law. I'm sure a pissed off Alphatia might want to do something nasty to Mystra's followers. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 15:02:38 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Gods and Immortals On Wed, 3 Jun 1998, Galwylin wrote: >But wasn't that changed in WotI? I swear that WotI has gone a long way No. An Immortal requires people to know about him/her. If an immortal is no forgotten, they fade away until they get more followers. Its been that way since the Gold box (If I remember correctly.. its been a while) >in making the Immortals into gods. I know that any Immortal entering the Realms will fall under Ao's domain and be required to gather followers in the Realms (mandatory rule for all levels of gods). I Maybe.. But probably not. Immortals are very different creatures than Gods, The get their powers from themselves, and govern themselves. I'm sure that most, if not all, Immortals would take extreme offense at some "Higher" power ordering them around. >think Ao would be like an Old One. No need of worshippers and able to do as he will with the gods. I beleive Old ones (Though it is never explicitly mentioned) have the same kind of non-interference rule with Immortals, like Immortals have with Mortals. They only show up when the Immortals screw up. (Like the end of WotI.) Max IV - "You saw an Old one? That's a +5 modifier for your petition!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 15:07:38 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sylvan Realm On Wed, 3 Jun 1998, Galwylin wrote: >of Pelatan. Anyone know how much of the Masters map is considered non-canon? Actually.. Everything. Except for the obvious names, Thyatis, and Alphatia, Jen, Esterhold, etc. All the countries that were named are the dreams of a Thyatian cartographer who stubled upon an ancient Nithian map. Most of the names are retained, because of tradition, and because you need someting to call those places! (Vulcania, Pelatin, Izonda, Zyxl, Tangor, etc.) But the Empires, and Matriarchies, and whatever, don't exist at all. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 15:09:58 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Gods and Immortals On Wed, 3 Jun 1998, Anakin wrote: >But what if Ao was an Immortal who created the realms???? what then???? remember the Immortals have the power to create worlds etc... Personally I prefer to read immortals as completely different from gods. Yeeha! I have gained another follower! My Quest for immortality is nearly complete! Max IV - Needs to lay off the cough syrup.. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 15:11:39 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Gods and Immortals On Wed, 3 Jun 1998, Anakin wrote: >Hmmmm, Intreesting, I do not remember reading this anywhere? Which book is it in????? WotI Codex of the Immortals. But then again, since Immortals don't have specific regions that they have to be in to retain their power, maybe Ao's followers are on Mystara ;) Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #383 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, June 3 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 384 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Almanac Re: [MYSTARA] - Byzantium and Canada, Japan, and China [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA RISING PROJECT Re: [MYSTARA] - Strictness of Copyright Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA RISING PROJECT Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Almanac Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Those Immortal Servants (Was: The Alphatian Council) Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Other places on Mystara (was:- Sylvan Realm) Re: [MYSTARA] - Sylvan Realm Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? RE: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri [MYSTARA] - Matriarchy of Pelatan RE: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Gods and Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Multi-world material (was MystaraRising!) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 15:18:50 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? On Wed, 3 Jun 1998, [iso-8859-1] Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: >Dark Sun is cut off as you mentioned and Birthright has its own rules for "Planar Travel". It should in fact be considered another dimension. Much like how Mystara should be another dimension ;) Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 16:33:33 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Almanac << Ofcourse! That conflict could get interesting. Personally I would like to see the Ethengarians moved elsewhere. I like them, but I dont like them in the middle of the civilized world, if you take my meaning. It would be great to have them go west or something and regain their position there... All IMO ofcourse. >> And than, in a hundred years or so, we will return with dozens of mingams and trample your civilized world into the dust. Har har har... Sorry for that. It just got me. I'm sure my Karameikan cleric wouldn't like that. OTOH he would be dead, on another plane or an immortal than. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 16:33:37 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Byzantium and Canada, Japan, and China << In Canada bilingualism is official and the civil-servants must make at least token efforts for it almost anywhere. The French-language CBC television network actually extends from Vancouver B.C. to Port-au-Port, Newfoundland, which is most of the 5,000 kilometers of width of the country. And it's not even the longest French-language TV network in the world any more; TV5 is, where people in France and French Canada see programs in common. So Canada is a much more interpenetrative administrative bureaucracy, as if Greek were used in the Roman Empire in Gaul and Iberia. Would this have happened if the Empire had had much better transportation, trade and communication? >> Once I've read that it were an attitude for noble Romans to speak and write in Greece. I'm not sure if this was true. Likewise noble Japanes spoke Chinese and because the construction of sentences in Chinese is other than in Japanese we've got this thing with "harakiri" and "seppuku". Both are written by the same symbols, but harakiri means "belly cutting" and is Japanes while seppuku means "cutting belly" and is Chinese... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 13:55:27 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA RISING PROJECT Would anyone on the List, wish to Attend Next Year's TSR's Writers Workshop. so as to work together on, not only the Net Almanac, but maybe some net modules as well? Hey, Bruce, Could you Please grace your Presence there as well for 1999, so as to ask TSR to let us work as part of the Mystara design team, please? I take life with a grain of salt...a slice of lemon, and a shot tequila. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 14:04:43 -0700 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Strictness of Copyright At 02:06 PM 6/3/98 -0400, Pierre Savoie wrote: [[[...] >>And, as the revised Online Usage policy shows us, the acquisition of TSR by WotC has already caused far reaching changes in TSR policy. This is why I have hope that WotC/TSR might just consider the things I suggested. >Oh, have things changed? That would be good news. Yes. The new TSR online policy is available at the URL http://www.tsr.com/faq/online_policy.html. It is much less restrictive than the old one. >But I have one little counter-example. Observe the harsh words of Ryan Dancey, Brand Manager for Five Rings Publishing Group which is now a subsidiary of WotC, concerning who owns the ideas posted on the mailgroups for FRPG's card-games. THIS is some piece of work!: [...much stuff snipped...] Interesting. I find it intriguing that, on the one hand he said that they have the copyright on anything posted there, but on the other hand they say that they will NOT use anything that someone posts. Also, do you know when Five Rings become a subsidiary of WotC? This also makes me wonder about how far the concept of 'derivative works' actually go. I've been told that the author of new work retains some copyright, but perhaps not... I've sent some email off to someone who maintains a copyright FAQ and resource page to see if I can find out more about this. (And this is Mystara related in that I'd be interested in finding out how much, if any, of the material written by the almanac crew 'belongs' to them versus how much 'belongs' to TSR.) >They may work also to "force people's hand" and force them to publish articles with TSR-related backgrounds into TSR publications. TSR cautioned SHADIS magazine not to publish any articles about TSR games -- which only made it a more interesting magazine, covering other new RPGs both large and small. ["Danger, Will Robinson! Partisan person and past SHADIS article- writer. Danger!"] TSR does have a legal right to do that of course. The D&D and AD&D worlds are, after all, under their copyright. Of course, as you point out, their requirement made SHADIS more varied and interesting, and perhaps hurt TSR to some degree? On the other hand, TSR may be correct in feeling that restricting TSR related articles only to TSR published magazines will be more profitable for them in the long run. (And, as has been mentioned before, they ARE a corporation so making money is always going to be an important objective) >TSR wants as much control as it can. You asked for an example of "stolen" work; here's a possible example: I noticed that the DMG 2nd ed. p. 22-23 had a section on "Creating a New Character Class", a way to mix and match class abilities to create new classes. But the credit should really go to Paul M. Crabaugh's article in DRAGON, May 1986, entitled "Customized Classes: How to put together one-of-a-kind characters", doing that sort of thing but for OD&D! It seems that he published his article in DRAGON, but lost control of its ideas and was not credited in any way with the appearance of a similar system in the pages of the DMG. **UNLESS* there is evidence of any TSR publication or article doing mix- and-match character classes prior to the 1986 date, or they gave him some kind of royalty for second-use of the idea for the DMG, TSR stole the ideas in his excellent article. Not necessarily, and royalties for second-use may not even be involved. When the original article was published in Dragon, Mr. Crabaugh will necessarily have signed some kind of contract with TSR regarding publishing rights and possibly copyrights. It definitly would have given TSR/DRAGON first-publishing rights, but can have included many other things including passing his copyright over to TSR/DRAGON. Thus, it is quite possible that this contract gave TSR ownership of these ideas, and thus quite possible that their re-use within the DMG would have been legal. Without knowing what was contained in this contract between Mr. Crabaugh and TSR/DRAGON there is no way to know /for sure/ that this is the case, but, for legal reasons, I doubt TSR would have taken and used his ideas so blatantly unless they had the right to do so. In any case, copyright issues aside, we can still hope that WotC/TSR will be willing to give the well-written work of the almanac and other Mystara related items a look-see. At the very least, it couldn't hurt, could it? ;-) Jenni - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield http://www.jamm.com/jenni/home.html - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- strawberry@jamm.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 23:10:59 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA RISING PROJECT On Wed, 3 Jun 1998, George Valencia wrote: >Would anyone on the List, wish to Attend Next Year's TSR's Writers Workshop. so as to work together on, not only the Net Almanac, but maybe some net modules as well? Hey, Bruce, Could you Please grace your Presence there as well for 1999, so as to ask TSR to let us work as part of the Mystara design team, please? What is the TSR's Writers Workshop? Something on GenCon? How about providing some information? Please? :) Sincerely, Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 23:00:07 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri At 02.53 03/06/98 PDT, paul dooley wrote: DDidnt it say in AD&D Glantri box that it ws draining magic again? IMO the old one gave a shortterm fix just to show em all whos REALLY in charge!! True, but G:KoM was probably wrong on this matter ;-) PS: please, when replying to someone, don't quote the whole message (including headings) you're replying to. Bye. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com DM in City Of The Stars - Mystaran Almanac Assistant Leader of Privateers - Student of Aerospace Enginnering Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 22:54:07 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri At 07.42 03/06/98 EDT, Inconu@aol.com wrote: <<< Good point -- and it suggests yet another likely solution to Jaggar's problem. >He is unable to cast spells until he learns one-handed casting, either from Harald or on his own. >> >He would still be able to cast spells that require only verbal, only somatic, or a combo of the two for components. Yes, but this is AD&D. Is there something in OD&D that prevents a mage from casting if he lacks a one hand? Can Jaggar cast spells using only his voice? What about a wizard held in chains or tied up by a rope, he cannot move his hand, but can he cast spells? I don't think a mage always needs to dance, wave his hands or make strange gestures when casting spells. On the other hand we know that a mage cannot cast spells if he has been silenced. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 23:16:54 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Almanac On Wed, 3 Jun 1998 JamugaKhan@aol.com wrote: ><< Ofcourse! That conflict could get interesting. Personally I would like to ssee the Ethengarians moved elsewhere. I like them, but I dont like them in the middle of the civilized world, if you take my meaning. It would be great to have them go west or something and regain their position there... All IMO ofcourse. >> >And than, in a hundred years or so, we will return with dozens of mingams and trample your civilized world into the dust. Har har har... Sounds good to me. Then we would see a paralell to what the Mongols did to Europe. Or maybe, by that time, the Ethengarians have developed gunpowder and have a culture similar to that of the cossacs(spl?)..... >Sorry for that. It just got me. I'm sure my Karameikan cleric wouldn't like that. OTOH he would be dead, on another plane or an immortal than. Haha, Khan, you have a weakness! If I kidnapp your character, I can force you to agree on any of my insane world shattering ideas... :D Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 23:26:21 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri On Wed, 3 Jun 1998, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: >Yes, but this is AD&D. >Is there something in OD&D that prevents a mage from casting if he lacks a one hand? >Can Jaggar cast spells using only his voice? What about a wizard held in chains or tied up by a rope, he cannot move his hand, but can he cast spells? >I don't think a mage always needs to dance, wave his hands or make strange gestures when casting spells. On the other hand we know that a mage cannot cast spells if he has been silenced. I thought these events in the Almanac were a result of using AD&D rules. D&D doesn't say too much about it AFAIK. I do seem to remember something from Glantri (the Gaz) though. I think there was something about how spellcasting styles in Glantri varied greatly from spellcaster to spellcaster. Some prefer dancing about and waving their hands in dramatic manners while others, like Etienne IRC, prefer just moving their index finger in a threatening manner in their targets general direction. (I cant remember the reference, but I believe I have read this.) You are right about the silence part. In other cases in OD&D, I think it is up to the DM to rule in each situation. I think a mage with both hands tied together is prevented from casting spells. Arrivedechi! (or something ;) Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 17:45:37 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri On Wed, 3 Jun 1998, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 20:23:23 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #384 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: ba35b33966d3deca6a4888a518dbda89 >Is there something in OD&D that prevents a mage from casting if he lacks a one hand? No. >Can Jaggar cast spells using only his voice? No. All D&D spells have Verbal and Somatic components, but there aren't any that require physical components except Clone, and Wish (IMC) Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 23:49:53 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Those Immortal Servants (Was: The Alphatian Council) On Tue, 2 Jun 1998, David Brian Olsen wrote: >Haarvard, thanks for the acronym guide. Your NR exalted creatures look interesting. I'm wondering how much is based on myth and how much you have made up on your own. Thanks. Truth is I do not really know :) I did not use any specific resources when I wrote this. I have read a lot about Norse Mythology so what I wrote was a mixture of what I remember, and my own immagination. These two sometimes get mixed up, unfortunately. As I said earlier, norse mythology is really vague about elves. In most of the books I have read Dark elves is another name for Dwarves, so that was changed a lot. Light elves have been described as light shiny beings. More spirits, than something belonging on earth. The Valkyres and the Einherjar are mostly based on Norse Mythology except for the obvious Mystara references. Valkyres do _not_ use Pegasi. AFAIK this is something that Marvel Comics made up. I stole the Hellkyres from a Primal Order(TPO) product. I don't remeber the name of that book, but it was the one with the monsters. (TPO is a generic rpg accessory for playing gods. it was published by WotI, but was discontinued long before WotI bought TSR.) The Einherjar are mostly based directly on Norse Mythology, though I got some details from a Norwegian author called Tor Aage Bringsverd, who has written fiction based on Norse Myths. Shadowknights is an idea developed by people on this list. Obviously you can find similarities with Death Knights and Nasguls. Hope this helps, Håvard PS: I got a lot of nice feedback on the elves, does anyone have any comments on those other guys? Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 23:55:04 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? On Wed, 3 Jun 1998, SteelAngel wrote: >On Wed, 3 Jun 1998, [iso-8859-1] Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: >>Dark Sun is cut off as you mentioned and Birthright has its own rules for "Planar Travel". It should in fact be considered another dimension. >Much like how Mystara should be another dimension ;) Exactly. :D I dont see why we should have to adapt when they don't. (childish argument, but I think it is valid.) I actually think forcing all their worlds to obey a very well defined set of rules and world laws is a bad idea for TSR. It will (and has) made their worlds less interesting than they could have been. Krynnish mages are considered whimps in Planescape. Not cool. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 00:02:41 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri At 17.45 03/06/98 -0400, SteelAngel wrote: >>Can Jaggar cast spells using only his voice? >No. All D&D spells have Verbal and Somatic components, but there aren't any that require physical components except Clone, and Wish (IMC) What about casting spells waving feets instead of hands? :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 14:44:40 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Other places on Mystara (was:- Sylvan Realm) Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: >Ofcourse some areas have already been developed in more recent products. I agree that the Midland forest is interesting. I suggest that it is not populated by elves, but rather that it is a kingdom of Treants. (and Gr-hmm..what are they called again, those Treant look-alikes from the Creature Catalogue.) Also, there are probably quite a few other sylvan races in that area. I think it might be a good idea if Oberon moved there after WotI. Gakarak? The forest brooders I think are the ones you mean. How about centaurs? They don't seem to have a land and have been a part of fantasy as long as the elf. Perhaps a large population of races from the Creature Crucible 1. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 14:37:46 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sylvan Realm Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: >There is a map in The Elves Of Alfheim (the Gaz) which shows elven migration. On this map, the location of the Sylvan realm is marked. If you have the Gaz, you find the map on page 6. It is quite far north on the western side of the mountain range, probably quite close to the coast. Looks like its by the coast, but the maps is not that detailed. Man, I need an index. The CM7 map does show the Realm next to a body of water so its apparently on the coast. Looking at the GAZ5 map of the elven migration, I see the elves did pass through that large forest and beside the large lake. I wonder if any decided to remain there. It looked perfect for woodland elves to me from the RC map. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 23:45:54 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? >I dont see why we should have to adapt when they don't. (childish argument, but I think it is valid.) >I actually think forcing all their worlds to obey a very well defined set of rules and world laws is a bad idea for TSR. It will (and has) made their worlds less interesting than they could have been. >Krynnish mages are considered whimps in Planescape. Not cool. >Håvard The thing I hate the most about Planescape is the campaigns attitude to the Prime settings (ie, anyone from the Prime is utter filth, useless, wimpy etc. etc.). Personally the best Planescape bash (literally) that I have ever seen the players lap up is a swift romp into Carceri to interrogate the petitioner that was in life an ancient Nithian King (the Immortals banged him up in the Red Prison for being one of the first Nithian Entropics)... Being Red Steel, the were well armed (red steel weapons, pikes, snaplock muskets). And much planar ass was kicked... (the pike formation rules in Mighty Fortress are just brilliant. Do not attempt to engage a formation of pikemen with a sword. You Will Lose). It was basically a monster bash, in which the players got to kick in all the Planar filth for a change. The Boys from the Coast are now famed baatezu bashers out there in Sigil... Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 01:06:42 +0200 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?=" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri About Jaggar casting spells one-handed: I think that the Complete Wizard´s Handbook states that, if a mage loses one hand (or even one finger I would dare to say), he must follow a long process to redefine or "relearn" the somatic component for his spells. So, an impaired (tied or grappled) wizard cannot cast: the process takes far more than a round, months or even years. If this works fine for the over-detailed AD&D, it can fit in D&D too. There is an example in a published adventure: a drow wizard from the Rod of Seven Parts (AD&D, non-specific campaign world, adventure) who, after losing one hand, must spend years to regain his ability to cast magic. This would go well for Jaggar excepting if: 1) we believe Mystara D&D sources (I think it is in Dawn of the Emperors) when they state that Flaem spellcasting, the core of Glatrian magical tradition (excepting that of people from Laterre, like the D´Ambrevilles) uses very emphatic and theatrical gestures and tones of voice: perhaps that would be impossible to accomplish with only one hand. 2) being a War Wizard (militant wizard, following the AD&D CWH), Jaggar could have taken a geas or self-limitation, like the use of both arms (the counterpart of the special skill which allows to cast magic without visible gestures). I would choose 1). It balances the great power of Glatrian mages by making them "obvious and menacing". Jaggar has found it out the hard way! Probably he could learn to cast magic with his only arm, but, nevertheless, he would be looked down by his fellow princes, as a "barbarian" caster (like those fellows from the Karameikan School of Magecraft) or, worse, like an Alphatian Follower of Air!!! Dolores would make profit and scorn, doubtless. Andreas de Skie. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 09:15:42 +1000 From: shawn@leme.anu.edu.au (stan) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Matriarchy of Pelatan >Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 04:06:27 -0500 >From: Galwylin >I like the area in the Masters set called the Empire of the Great Khan. Now that's what Ethengar should be like. I'd have to agree with you on that one. >I also see a possible >location for those Amazons I was wondering about before, the Matriarchy of Pelatan. It's funny you should mention that as a group of us who are working on Davania for the 1016 Almanac have already brought this one up. IIRC someone once wrote to this list decided that this area might make a perfect Amazonian culture and when I brought this up to the group no-one seemed to shoot it down in flames. Therefore in the next almanac you might see the Matriarchy of Pelatan described. Also look for a link between them and the wereseals mentioned in PC4 who inhabit the Bay of Pelatan area - I think it's a nice twist on an old classic. >Anyone know how much of the Masters map is considered non-canon? The Matriarchy of Pelatan is a case in point. Basicallly the map is non-canon after what Bruce wrote in Dragon issue 153 (I think it was). But then again an area such as the Matriarchy of Pelatan, Empire of Dorfin IV or whatever have yet to be described by anyone on the mailing list. Therefore until some says otherwise these areas might actually exist - there's nothing to say that they do and there's nothing to say that they don't. The MOrient crew might have something to say against the Empire of the Great Khan and of course any new inclusions has to fit in as best as possible with already published material, but if there's nothing there yet then basically anything can go there. (Even after someone places something there and tells the MML about it anything can still go there - that's half the fun of it). stan http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 01:25:05 +0200 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?=" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Gods and Immortals If you have read the PS supplement "On Hallowed Ground", you may well be familiar with the concept of "Single Sphere Deities", power who dominate over a single world (like the gods from Krynn or Toril compared to the Celtic or Norse powers), and to the concept of proxies (powerful minions of a power, sometimes immortal themselves). I came upon the idea of taking Immortals in Mystara as "Single Sphere Proxies". The thing goes like this: 1) As the result of an ancient pact or a hidden secret, powers from the multiverse (in a PS conception) decided never to trod in avatar form or manifest themselves in Mystara. 2) To guide mortals they adopted over the millennia a series of powerful and motivated individuals to act as proxies for their spheres of interest. For instance, all deities of love and beauty, from Aphrodite to Istar or the Elven goddesses, take Valerias as their "common" proxie in Mystara. All gods of death and destruction (Nergal, Kemosh, Kali...) have Thanatos as their favorite Mystaran busybody, and so on. For those Immortals who fit a deity´s name and portfolio (Odin, Loki, Garl Glittergold), I suggest that the former mortal grew so assimilated to the power who guided him that he even lost his name in favour of the concep he was following. Some Immortals, on the other hand, are not "guided" by those powers from afar, but patroized by another perviously-established fellow Immortal. 3) The Powers established a "residence" and source of power for these Immortals: the Mystaran planes of existence, which form a capsule themselves inside the bigger scope of the PS Multiverse. 4) So, Mystara is integrated in the xD&D Multiverse, just a bit more "removed" from the usual playground of PS, Toril and so on. I will develop further, if you are interested, especially the connection of Mystara Planes to the similar PS planes, the possible reasons of the powers "withdrawing" from Mystara and the relationship between powers and Old Ones. Andreas de Skie *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 20:22:38 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Multi-world material (was MystaraRising!) In a message dated 98-06-03 01:47:21 EDT, derek@ix.netcom.com writes: >Every resource doesn't need a chapter specifically for Mystara to make it usable in Mystara. Quite true -- but a chapter describing how to adapt the material in a given product to a given setting could well help with sales for fans of that setting. Taking Mystara/Al-Qadim as a particular example: The added chapter for Mystara would have to acknowledge that Ylaruam in Mystara is not as racially tolerant as Zakhara in the Forgotten Realms -- they may well accept orcs as "True Believers", but elves are another matter entirely. For that matter, every wizard kit except the sha'ir would be an outlaw in Ylaruam -- doubly so if the wizard openly used fire magic or necromancy. Add a few more such notes to the basic "Al-Qadim" rulebook, and you would have a product that is just as much a part of Mystara as it is of the Forgotten Realms. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #384 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Thursday, June 4 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 385 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Matriarchy of Pelatan Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri [MYSTARA] - Jenni's Monumental Memo of Mystara [MYSTARA] - D&D collection for sale. Re: [MYSTARA] - Gazetteers vs. boxed sets Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Gods and Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Gods and Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - The Alphatian Council and FR Re: [MYSTARA] - The Alphatian Council and FR Re: [MYSTARA] - Sylvan Realm Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Sylvan Realm Re: [MYSTARA] - Why the Council of Alphatia is reasonable Re: [MYSTARA] - Jenni's Monumental Memo of Mystara [MYSTARA] - Thermodynamic Universe? [MYSTARA] - Complaints about formatting [MYSTARA] - Gender in Gaming ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 20:44:50 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Matriarchy of Pelatan Galwylin wrote: >>I also see a possible >>location for those Amazons I was wondering about before, the Matriarchy of Pelatan. Shawn wrote: >It's funny you should mention that as a group of us who are working on Davania for the 1016 Almanac have already brought this one up. IIRC someone once wrote to this list decided that this area might make a perfect Amazonian culture and when I brought this up to the group no-one seemed to shoot it down in flames. Therefore in the next almanac you might see the Matriarchy of Pelatan described. Also look for a link between them and the wereseals mentioned in PC4 who inhabit the Bay of Pelatan area - I think it's a nice twist on an old classic. That's right, Shawn. And, as the guy in charge on northwestern Davania, you know what's in store . Like wise, Alex Benson has something to throw your way for central/eastern Davania... And of course, I'll continue developing the Milenian City-States region for the Almanac, and possibly Cestia, too. :-) >Therefore until some says otherwise these areas might actually exist - there's nothing to say that they do and there's nothing to say that they don't. :-) The MOrient crew might have something to say against the Empire of the Great Khan and of course any new inclusions has to fit in as best as possible with already published material, but if there's nothing there yet then basically anything can go there. (Even after someone places something there and tells the MML about it anything can still go there - that's half the fun of it). Of course. The Davania group for the Almanac has been pretty careful so far not to upset the balance of things, but by the same token we're dealing with a half-forgotten and above all mysterious continent, one with lots of surprises for the unwary... Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 21:36:33 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri In a message dated 98-06-02 18:38:50 EDT, ANDREW.THEISEN@ASU.Edu writes: >>Kol’s influence is probably at a high after the Ethengar war given his pppivotal role. >That's one way to look at it. Another way is to have all the other Princes on guard against him. After all, the population of his principality (by all means I've figured; not counting the PWA and G:KoM erroneus pop. figures) is smaller than most other Principalities, and yet he can raise almost 75% of that >population as fighting forces, making his army approximately the equal of Glantri's entire wartime army! (According to figures in GAZ3, not the PWAs). >I think this would make everyone a little wary. But there is another possibility to consider: The Supreme Judge must spend most of his time in Glantri City, where the majority of Kol's subjects are made to feel distinctly unwelcome. Kol can raise a huge army in New Kolland -- but if he is stuck in Glantri City most of the time, then his increased voting power is compensated for by the virtual elimination of his military power. If that is pointed out to enough Princes, he might be a shoo-in for Supreme Judge. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 21:39:32 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Jenni's Monumental Memo of Mystara >>[...] I would hope the 'Mystara Rising' campaign will help TSR/WotC see just how many Role-Players dedicated to or interested in Mystara there are, and hopefully convince them to bring our beloved campaign world back again.<< How will TSR/WotC actually behold the efforts engendered by the Mystara Rising Campaign? How do we make sure the right people witness this? >>[...] Sales were low for this 'new' Mystara, partly because experienced Mystara players had little use for 'beginner' level accesories and partly because 'beginner' level players were not given as good reasons to look at Mystara as they were for other TSR AD&D worlds.<< The same could have been said of the original Mystara. Sales had suffered there as well precisely because of the number of customers "snubbing" anything connected with OD&D. RC did well, but was unable to break the trend. A further effect appeared later on, when we saw distributors deliberately cutting orders down on the later Gazetteer issues because of their higher serial number -- following the logic that GAZ1 sells best because it's the first one, GAZ2, 3, and 4 perhaps reasonably well, and beyond these, distributors weren't convinced sales would be significant. So, as we reached GAZ 10, 11, 12, distributors were actually ordering half or less what the earlier Gazetteers were selling, regardless of whether people might be interested out there (note that back-orders on Gazetteers were unusually stable for TSR products). As a result, TSR's management was getting increasingly hostile to any further Gazetteers or parallel developments of Mystara. So much for market dynamics. This, the effect of OD&D, and the fact OD&D was considered a direct competitor to AD&D (TSR's sacred cow) pushed TSR to switch Mystara to the AD&D system (can you say "Moo?"). It sounds nuts, but that's the way it happened. You now the rest. >>I think that Mystara could be a bright gem in the diadem of TSR RPG worlds, and it can even be this within the context of AD&D. But it has to be marketed properly and it has to be developed properly.<< Difficult trick to master. Mystara, as colorful and neat as it is, remains a generic fantasy world, very much in the same sphere as FR and GH. It will be very difficult to make distributors (and new gamers) feel it is different enough to warrant the purchase. And it looks like a late-comer. Mystara is a great world, and I think one that is more attractive than others, but you are running into the problems I just mentioned above, Mystara is likely to be considered a direct competitor to FR (another sacred cow -- and I don't think we'll see a stampede here). So, for Mystara to have any chance at all, differences have to be cultivated as precious assets. >>My first suggestion would be for WotC/TSR to release source material for Mystara as a whole -- much like they have done for their other fantasy worlds.<< You mean a boxed set with an outline of the Known World-Bellissarian-Savage Coast-Hollow World regions, plus generalities on the planet itself? Sure, this would be useful as an intro to Mystara. Helps people place all these neat settings. Let's not make the mistake of trying to design/fill-out all the other regions, however. I've seen this happen too many times in other settings, and the result were always BAD. >>This material should include Special rules that differentiate the world of AD&D Mystara from the other AD&D TSR worlds.<< Sure, but let's not go overboard with this. Other than Immortals and possibly alignments, what were you suggesting? Class adaptations that reflect the old OD&D races/classes? I'm not sure this is really worth the trouble, is it? >>(As an aside, one thing I'd like to see is a mix of male and female PC's. [...]<< Like what was done in the RC -- I thought this at least has a good gender/ethnic mix. >>[...] I would recommend setting this source material mainly at the same Mystaran era as the original Gazetteers -- AC1000 -- for reasons I will try to explain below. Note, however, that I also feel it is very important that this material provide significant, though perhaps brief, details about how the information provided would change as time moves on towards the later era of WotI and Post-WotI.<< I agree with you here. Although the material is initially designed for AC1000, substantial info should be available in the accessories to bring them up to AC1015 standards. This means, every product will end up with a chapter devoted to this alone (which takes some room from other material). This brings up another issue. Gazetteers were written for the most part using 10 or 11 point type size. Nowadays, unless the trend has changed at TSR/WotC, type size is larger and with more graphics. This cuts down drastically on the amount of data that makes it to print. Considering this and the need to include more info to satisfy already established fans of Mystara, Gazetteers-inspired releases are likely to need 128 pages. Here's another issue. In the past TSR priced their releases mostly according to their format -- so many pages, so many dollars. This isn't true anymore. I think TSR/WotC's pricing also takes into account sales forecast, in other words, if initial sales are expected to be low, retail prices will go up. Not only the product is text heavy (it requires longer development/editing), the format is bigger, but initial sales may be a bit shaky ==> don't be shocked if you see prices near $20 or higher for these beauties. I don't want to be the party-pooper here, but there's a need to be realistic. >>[...] My next suggestion to WotC/TSR would be to start re-releasing the content of the original Gazetteers in some form, still in the AC1000 era, but modified to AD&D. For these 'New Gazetteers' I would suggest a definite split of the information into two books, one for DM's and one for Players, and I would like to see reprints of the 8-mile hex maps. Thus they would be very similar to the originals, yet slightly different, giving them a wider appeal.<< I would also prefer something that comes close to the original Gazetteer format, including the gosh-darn, 8 mile scale hex maps. That's a tough sale to TSR design staff because they have a gut-level hatred of these sorts of maps. And unfortunately, these maps are tricky to produce and work-intensive. They demand an iron hand to manage their consistency and some hands-on experience (trust me, I know!) Fortunately, Dennis Kauth who was one the main mappers for Mystara products is in Seattle with TSR (last I heard, anyway). >>If WotC/TSR wanted, they could market the books and maps separately, or they could market them as a two-book-and-map package, or as some variation on that theme -- whatever would make the most economic sense.<< Don't lose sleep over this. Merchandising maps separately from their original product is a nightmare and I doubt you'll ever see this. >>Then WotC/TSR could start developing 'New Gazetters' on the undeveloped areas of the outer Mystara -- Wendar, Denagoth, parts of The Southern Continent perhaps. [...]<< One other thing -- you're hoping for a big pile of releases fairly quickly. Although this is a dream for old time fans of Mystara, it's also a sales liability. This mistake was made with Birthright (I think more than one release per month in the first 12 months of the launch), which almost killed the line. There is unfortunately such a thing as too many Mystara products. There needs to be a balance between the release of revisited Gazetteers, and further development of the world. This is a very tricky issue, considering how much has already been published for Mystara. In order to maintain quality, I'd almost be willing to say: no more than 4-5 titles per year, total, not including possible novels. This allows everyone enough time to buy, use, and *afford* all the titles every year, it also allows editorial staff to concentrate on their products and do a better job. >>And, of course, as a true acknowledgement of existing Mystara fans, the Mystara Almanacs -- something I believe is unique to the TSR world of Mystara - -- should be maintained in some way, continuing the expansion of Mystara into the future. << Gotta have the Almanacs! That's one of these unique and ever so precious features of Mystara. >>Although many Mystara fans feel what I am about to say is a pipe-dream, I think that it might be given some serious consideration by WotC/TSR if they can be shown it would be worth their while to do so. I would truly like to see WotC/TSR think about basing some of the future Almanacs on the extensive collective work that has already been done on the net-almanacs. << As long as TSR/WotC sees some advantage of doing this, I don't think it's impossible. Just stay in touch with their design team, via conventions and e- mail. Sending in a manuscript of the Almanac could also help (once there IS an internal team in place for Mystara -- hold that paperwork for now!) >>[...] 1) On the one hand, the current net-almanac editors have copyright on the existing material because they creating it, while WotC/TSR has trademark on the world it is based in. As a result, neither party can use this material for profit without the other's permission. [...]<< I zipped through this dicussion on the MML last night about TSR stealing stuff from net-writers. I don't recall TSR ever using material created on the internet without adequate sign-off. Where did this notion come from? >>So, in short [...]<< Surely you jest! :o) Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 23:29:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: [MYSTARA] - D&D collection for sale. I saw this on the news group and thought there might be people here interested in this. I'M NOT THE ONE SELLING THIS, DON'T EMAIL ME!!! Sorry for shouting, but last time I did this I got alot of emails to me. - --------------------------------------------------------------------- Article 59109 of rec.games.frp.marketplace: From: John & Deborah Proctor Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.marketplace Subject: FS: Basic D &D Collection Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 18:49:08 GMT I am selling my D & D collection. The collection has a 135 items. I have a list of that you will need to get before you make an offer. The collection includes the following: All the rule sets starting with the blue cover box set thru the Classic D & D set. Five other box sets. Modules B1 thru B12, BSOLO, Super module B1-9, DDA1 thru DDA4, Entry1 thru Entry8, X1 thru X13, XSOLO, XS2, XL1, CM1 thru CM9, M1 thru M5, IM1 thru IM3, O1, O2, Invisible Ink Modules M1 & M2, DA1 thru DA4. All the Gazetteers and nearly all Accessories. All items are in very good or better condition. I am taking offers on this but you need to get the list before making one. Shipping weight on the collection is about 100 pounds and will be in four or five boxes. So keep that in mind if you want to make a offer. Also I will not sell anything but the collection as a whole. Not looking to trade just sell. Thanks for your time, John Proctor callista@ix.netcom.com BTW: I did try to sell this once before but couldn't find everything that went with it. I now have it all together in one place and have made a list of everything included with notes on condition. So if I get a offer I like it will be sold. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 00:17:47 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gazetteers vs. boxed sets I would think that if TSR/WotC insists on selling boxed sets, they should try to provide more "bang for the buck" in the boxed set. Red Steel showed some promise in that direction -- it described a region comparable in size and cultural variety to the Known World and was almost worth its price. If the first boxed set had described the entire Known World region, it might have been worthwhile -- but anyone could see that publishing gazetteer replacements for $30 each was a losing proposition. If you want to charge three times as much, you should try to provide three times the value -- then the product will sell and the customers will be happy. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 00:18:20 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Gods and Immortals In a message dated 98-06-03 04:01:58 EDT, anakin@uq.net.au writes: >Here is the way I saw and use the major difference, AD&D Gods require ffollowers for power, the further they are from their followers the weaker they become. However immortals do not require mortal followers for their powers and can travel where they will without losing power. Immortals do require followers within their own dimension -- otherwise they do risk fading away. But they can have all of their followers on a well hidden outer plane and be free to wander wherever they wish within the Multiverse dimension. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 00:18:29 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Gods and Immortals In a message dated 98-06-03 04:59:31 EDT, galwylin@airnet.net writes: >But wasn't that changed in WotI? I swear that WotI has gone a long way iin making the Immortals into gods. I know that any Immortal entering the Realms will fall under Ao's domain and be required to gather followers in the Realms (mandatory rule for all levels of gods). I think Ao would be like an Old One. No need of worshippers and able to do as he will with the gods. Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 02:20:52 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #385 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: c2371b7056c967ae92ea410c54a581de If we assume that the Forgotten Realms are in a separate dimension from Mystara, then the rules given under "Becoming Stranded" and "Fading" on p. 83 of the Codex of the Immortals would apply. The Immortal would have to guard his Manifestation form carefully, as it cannot automatically reform as it does in the Multiverse dimension. Worse yet, if he did not have the foresight to create an artifact to grant spells to his priests, then he will eventually lose his followers and begin to fade. But if the Immortal planned things carefully, he can survive indefinitely in another dimension. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 00:18:39 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Alphatian Council and FR In a message dated 98-06-03 08:10:07 EDT, rmunch@easynet.co.uk writes: >Thought no.2 is that Mystra would snap her fingers and the Alphatians would ppermanently lose all their magic. But assuming that the Alphatian invaders are smart -- maybe they can work out some sort of deal with Mystra? What would she require of them to let them settle some part of Toril? And would it be something that would prevent them from trying to conquer part of Toril? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 00:18:17 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Alphatian Council and FR In a message dated 98-06-03 03:44:32 EDT, anakin@uq.net.au writes: >How would elminster etc react to a large number of 36th level wizards invading their world, remember wizards on this world have a max level of 20th.... I thought that the wizards of Toril could advance all the way to 30th level -- and given the differences between the game systems, they would be every bit as powerful as 36th level D&D Magic-Users. But there is no question that the Alphatian archwizards would have a numerical advantage over their foes -- regardless of the level limits on Toril, the fact would remain that there are very few high level wizards there. Of course, the first decision they would have to make would be what to do with Thay -- do they conquer it quickly and take over in place of the Red Wizards, or do they form an alliance with them for the purpose of conquering the world? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 00:18:46 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sylvan Realm In a message dated 98-06-03 15:24:43 EDT, eand@WPI.EDU writes: >Except for the obvious names, Thyatis, and Alphatia, Jen, Esterhold, etc. AAll the countries that were named are the dreams of a Thyatian cartographer who stubled upon an ancient Nithian map. Most of the names are retained, because of tradition, and because you need someting to call those places! (Vulcania, Pelatin, Izonda, Zyxl, Tangor, etc.) But the Empires, and Matriarchies, and whatever, don't exist at all. Tangor is an example of a nation that Haldemar may have dismissed too quickly. From the article you would think that the name of Tangor was completely fictitious and had nothing to do with that region at all -- but we learn later that a real people called the Tanagoro live in the region and are the ancestors of the Nuari, the people of Yavdlom, the demi-ogres of the Arm of the Immortals, and the Tanagoro of the Hollow World. At the other extreme is the Empire of Dorfin IV -- that one is clearly fictional. I suspect that most of the other nations are somewhere in between. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 00:18:37 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri In a message dated 98-06-03 07:58:12 EDT, Inconu@aol.com writes: >He would still be able to cast spells that require only verbal, only somatic, >or a combo of the two for components. But "somatic" means physical movements -- and if the movements involved require him to use his missing arm, then he is unable to cast spells with somatic component until he learns an alternate way to cast them. That is why I was suggesting that Jaggar would not be in any political danger -- he is still a powerful wizard and will be able to cast spells once he deals with his temporary handicap. But until he does, he will be more dependant on his guards for physical protection -- he is less able to defend himself than he used to be. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 00:18:41 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri In a message dated 98-06-03 08:24:14 EDT, ezaqwazy@hotmail.com writes: >I presume that this concerns a net almanac that i havent got, but Ill aadd my tuppence anyway. Why wouldnt any mage at this power level have a Wish on a scroll for just such an occasion? If a pc canhave such then its mandatory for any 3D NPC ! That assumes that the caster knows the spell. In D&D rules Jaggar is of insufficient level to learn the spell -- in AD&D rules it appears to be absent from his spell book. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 00:18:44 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sylvan Realm In a message dated 98-06-03 13:07:40 EDT, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no writes: >I prefer it to be set before WotI. Maybe in Ac1002 or something. It could bbe set much earlier too though. It is possible to set it after WotI, but setting it before AC1000 makes detailing it a lot easier. Another advantage to setting _Tree of Life_ prior to WotI is that you can get one whole clan of Elves out of the way of the Shadow Elf invasion of Alfheim.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 00:18:42 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why the Council of Alphatia is reasonable In a message dated 98-06-03 09:51:37 EDT, Alex295@aol.com writes: >Actually Alphatian armies should be pretty well advanced, renaissance period IIIRC. Thyatis is also classified as renaissance but that sits ill with me for some reason. Alphatian troops should be of higher technology since Alphatia >has been around for so long (2000+ years) and the Mystaran Alphatia is based >on an advanced civilization from faraway. I would agree except that Thyatis started out in a rebellion against Alphatia - -- so they would have started out with equal technology, and with their emphasis on military might Thyatis would have kept up with Alphatia in that area if not in others. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 01:04:47 +0100 From: Ron Murphy Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Jenni's Monumental Memo of Mystara >I agree with you here. Although the material is initially designed for AC1000, substantial info should be available in the accessories to bring them up to AC1015 standards. This means, every product will end up with a chapter devoted to this alone (which takes some room from other material). This brings up another issue. Gazetteers were written for the most part using 10 or 11 point type size. Nowadays, unless the trend has changed at TSR/WotC, type size is larger and with more graphics. This cuts down drastically on the amount of data that makes it to print. Considering this and the need to include more info to satisfy already established fans of Mystara, Gazetteers-inspired releases are likely to need 128 pages. Here's another issue. In the past TSR priced their releases mostly according to their format -- so many pages, so (snip) I just picked up the new Greyhawk players guide....teensy-tiny print (compared to other recent stuff) and some gosh darn beautiful maps. They packed a hell of a lot of basic background information into 64 pages. The print isn't as tiny as the Gazetteers and the format is kinda weird (one double-width column and one single width column) but it's promising stuff for the "new" TSR. A Mystara player's guide packaged like the new Greyhawk one would be awesome! Ron *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 02:17:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Savoie Subject: [MYSTARA] - Thermodynamic Universe? >Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:14:08 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? >According to some of the more advanced astrophysical theories, there are an infinite number of universes out there, beyond the rim of our own universe. Some of these universes would be too large or too small to thermodynamically support life, but there would be a few that are in the same range as our universe. >Max IV Huh? What do you mean by this thermodynamics theory, Max? I've studied thermodynamics and it makes no assumption of scale. I would imagine a universe as small as one sun and one planet can easily support life. The sun shines and provides an energy-source for those molecules, later mitochondria and later plants which want to combat entropy by changing into more complex forms. Entropy still increases in the system, but only globally, but on the planet pockets of increasing order and hence life can exist. - ---Pierre Savoie (ab966@torfree.net) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 02:18:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Savoie Subject: [MYSTARA] - Complaints about formatting [Curmudgeony 36-year-old fogey Pierre fumes about certain unkempt aspects of the mailgroup:] Woo! Hurricane Paul is upon us... >Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 02:35:39 PDT >From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why Mystara? ... >>From owner-mystara-l@phaser.showcase.mpgn.com Tue Jun 2 10:09:41 1998 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) bbby phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA23129; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 12:50:26 -0400 >>Received: by lists.MPGN.COM (bulk_mailer v1.5); Tue, 2 Jun 1998 12:50:25 -0400 >>Received: (from majordom@localhost) >>by phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA22975 for mystara-l-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 12:48:37 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@lists.MPGN.COM using -f Received: from Mithril.MPGN.COM (Mithril.MPGN.COM [206.66.87.8]) ... Sigh. Over-quoting or quoting 35-line headers should be carefully avoided by each person in the mailgroup. At 6-7 33k digests per day, this waste can really add up and make the digests harder to penetrate than the Serpent Peninsula in high summer! Everyone, please avoid adding a few lines of reply and then tossing the entire requoted message back into the drink as a "head" or "tail" to what you're saying. Avid readers (and even half-hearted skimmers and snipers like me) can tell from just a few quoted lines what previous message it pertains to. :-) =========================================================================== Oh, and a ** 75-character ** line or less would help. Some of you type in a nice Windows proportionally-spaced font, maybe on a fancy Internet service, that can shove slightly more letters in per line, but when it gets through to our plain-Jane UNIX servers we're limited to 80 chars. per line tops, so your message looks like "line, short segment, line, short segment", down our screen. It irritates the eye. :-) =========================================================================== This has been a public-service message... - ----- Are you having trouble with the message-editor, Paul? In Digest #382 today you sent the same 5-line message (with a 50-line requoted tail) into this mailgroup FOUR TIMES, on the topic "Almanac/Glantri". ...[and then, a miracle happens]... >Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 05:39:33 PDT >From: "paul dooley" Subject: [MYSTARA] - GENERAL >Sorry about my multiposting the computer Im on just threw a relly good fit of pique. again sorry all <; P Oh, that's it! Apology accepted. It pays for me to read ahead and not to ASSUME, because "when you 'ASSUME', you make an ASS of U and ME." (--Tony Randall, THE ODD COUPLE, TV series). But you're still requoting 35-line routing information. We don't need to see how you get the mailgroup messages - -- unless...could it be...are you trying to tell us you need so much Internet routing because you are from an Alternate DemiPlane? Truly, Milord, we are honoured by your presence. :-) ========================================================================= Overquoting is a DIZEEZ! Give generously to the O.Q. Foundation. Our lines are open. Telethon in August. I abscond to the Cayman Islands with the money in September... :-) - ---Pierre Savoie (ab966@torfree.net) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 02:20:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Savoie Subject: [MYSTARA] - Gender in Gaming >Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 15:48:10 +0200 >From: Ezio Pignatelli Subject: [MYSTARA] - Genders in Mystara >>Generally, we all seem to find it more difficult to 'believably' play a cross-gender character. >This is exactly the reason why I enjoyed playing a cross-gender character. i would never be able to play it as realisticly as a woman, and probably it is much more difficult and I am not even so smart. Still, I had _a_lot_of fun in trying to do that, having my female friends correct me when I was going too far, etc. etc. I even had some problems with... well... you know.... my days. :))) "Yeah, you GO, girl!" --Oprah Winfrey. Don't you HATE that you start off your days really heavy, and then it tapers off to really light? Why can't it be the other way around for a decent warning? "Do you have a spare shield?...No, Xena, I mean the OTHER kind of shield..." >What I like most in role-playing game is that it is HARD and DIFFICULT to really interpret a different character, one that is living in a medieval setting, an elf, or one which had his parents slaughtered by an orc command. All these things can be role-played... usually poorly (at least, _I_ consider to be able to do that only poorly). The problem with role-pleying female characters is that we all know a lot of women, and we know how they REALLY are... we can make comparisons, and understand how bad we are at doing them. But it is fun just the same. Well, speak for yourself, buck-o. Role-playing orcs is easy. Role-playing women -- that's hard! I don't know a lot of women. Honest. Not even by reputation. But publish a Gazetteer called THE WOMEN OF NORTH AMERICA and I could role-play one, just like I had fun with THE ORCS OF THAR and being a poor bloody grunt with a throaty voice in Da Legion. I want to see history, culture, occupations, famous women they find important...It's getting so I can only assimilate cultural data in that format -- make sure there's also a road-map to female- significant sites like Oprah's talk-show and where Betty Crocker and Alberto VO5 and Cosmopolitan are (a map which in my male arrogance I will completely refuse to consult when I get lost...) :-) But while it is important to make sure there are no obstacles for the participation of female players, the imaginary fantasy societies may not always give female CHARACTERS an equal opportunity to tramp around the countryside sticking their heads into dungeons or unseat despotic rulers or muck around with those pesky propane-powered StarGates. The ancient Greeks thought that if a young unmarried girl so much as stepped outside her household compound, even just to go look around at the market, she was a sl*t. Her chastity could not be guaranteed 100%, in their thinking. >Just another note: in my personal career as a DM, female players were better role-players. With one exception, an halfling which is a very poor role-player but is able to lead the whole party out of the most dangerous situations I have ever seen. :) That's because women don't understand the pressing need to drive a sharp sword through an orc as fast as you can. Kill him, QUICK! Or he might...negotiate and reason with you. Who wants to bog down the game with a lot of fool role-playing and "first contact" crap? Pointspointspoints... :-) "You are here to kill! You were BORN to kill! But if you don't have the fighting spirit, you will HESITATE. You will NOT kill. And that is dumb, because the enemy will kill YOU! And then, you will be in a WORLD of sh**. Because, in the Army, you are not...allowed...to die...without...PERMISSION!" --the Sarge, FULL METAL JACKET (more or less) - ---Pierre Savoie (ab966@torfree.net) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #385 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message.