mystara-digest Friday, June 12 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 413 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Abeelat Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One Re: [MYSTARA] - Cultural Edifice Complex Re: [MYSTARA] - Deformed Shadowelves Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Deformed Shadowelves Re: [MYSTARA] - Arik's Imprisonment Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri [MYSTARA] - Any Old Iron? (and Ravenloft) Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One [MYSTARA] - Immortal Chronomancy Re: [MYSTARA] - Cultural Edifice Complex Re: [MYSTARA] - Deformed Shadowelves Re: [MYSTARA] - Anti-D&D controversy: pre-empting (LONG) Re: [MYSTARA] - Day of Dread (was Almanac/Glantri) Re: [MYSTARA] - Midland Forest [MYSTARA] - Lifespan vs. Life Expectancy (was No subject) Re: [MYSTARA] - Any Old Iron? (and Ravenloft) [MYSTARA] - Enough[long]! (was: Cultural Edifice Complex) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 15:18:41 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Abeelat Buck Satan wrote: >Hello out there. I was wondering if anyone out there could help me with the stats on the abeelat. There were references made on the abeelat in the "Tainted Sword Trilogy" set in the GDoK. Another reference was made in the "Escape from Thunder Rift" module, basically about it's crystals that provide for something like clairvoyance. It's not in the RC, the Creature Catalog, or anything else, so if anyone out there has its stats, or would be willing to offer some pretty good ones, or a reasonable comparison to another monster, I'd be grateful. I thought these had been detailed but I guess not. Here's some suggestions off the tope of my head (and if I remember their description right). Feel free to alter since I'm not too certain of my numbers. AC: 5 or 4 Hit Dice: 2 Move: 12 Attacks: claw/claw/bite Damage: 1d6/1d6/1d4 Number Appearing: 1d20 Save As: F3 Morale: 20 Treasure: Nil Alignment: Chaotic (Evil) XP: 175 - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ galwylin@airnet.net | ICQ #6755972 | AIM: Galwylin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 16:42:01 EDT From: CRlPTONITE@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri << I don't think it was completely lifted. I think it was lifted for only the plague, but I may be mistaken. Max IV >> You should check out the Mark of Amber module. The characters start off in (IIRC) Darokin. They then have to travel to Glantri. The module has a part explaining what to do if a character is a cleric. He can either hide it or he can go through legally by signing some papers and promising not to preach, not to cast spells in certain conditions, etc... - --- -- --Criptonite *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 17:11:17 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One >a. Old One is another term for DM It is a good idea to compare it's power with the DMs, but i don't think the two are one in the same. >b. Old Ones are the Dark Powers I liked these ideas a lot. I don't think i'd use this in my campaign, but that is well thought out. It also makes for a good connection with Ravenloft (which is AD&D shhhhh.....). >c. Old Ones are powerful beings just as in the Immortals' theory (i.e., classical theory about the Old Ones) I tend to agree with this scenario. I however, believe that they have a neutral alignment. This allows a little less bias, and gives all an equal chance of rising to Old One status. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 17:24:19 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One >>a. Old One is another term for DM >Yuck! If you put this one to make the others look more acceptable, it works. What is the reason that you don't like this scenario? >>b. Old Ones are the Dark Powers >>This is based on Marco's work "Ravenloft and Mystara: A possible (frightening) connection."venloft. >Are we playing Ravenloft or Mystara!? Ravenloft is compatible with Mystara and any other world in my opinion. I don't see why we would have to isolate Mystara to only itself, and not allow it to spread it's influence outward.....to other planets and planes. AD&D players could enjoy the mix of the realm of horror in their campaigns, whereas the OD&D players whom wish to learn how to convert or accept some of AD&D could use this as thier first push into the understanding of it. Not to mention that a Mystaran domain exists inside Ravenloft already.... >>c. Old Ones are powerful beings just as in the Immortals' theory (i.e., classical theory about the Old Ones) >Just like the RW scientist who's adding a chemical ingredient in his solution, not diving himself in it. I don't believe that that's an accurate analogy for the situation at hand. RW scientists really don't create multiverses. The closest creation i know of, is the Biosphere project. This project is a mini-Earth. It holds most of the terrains/climates/species found on this planet. Sometimes, there are problems with it and generators or whatever must be fixed. However, there are many things the scientists must fix from the inside. Such as ecology problems and the such. The Old Ones have created the multiverse. Which, in my opinion, is quite a bit more complicated than the experiments you and i talked about. This is why I beleive it to be quite feasible for an old one to personally appear inside it's own project. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 17:25:57 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Cultural Edifice Complex << Very true. I agree. And i will go on so far as to say that democracy scares me as well - simply because all too often it becomes mob rule. Especially when the media gets involved. (Bet that comment will shock all the democraphiles here!) Cheerz ROB >> I thought Leroy ended this thread? - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 17:26:29 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Deformed Shadowelves On Fri, 12 Jun 1998, Galwylin wrote: >Immortals could have just decided it was better gone. In any case, I don't think being caught off guard is the reason there is no more Blackmoor. The fact is, we just don't know.. yet ;> I dunno. the HW boxed set does say that The immortlas couldn't save Blackmoor. Of course, couldn't save, and didn't want to save are 2 different things. And then again, if chronomancy was so prevalent among immrtals, why didn't someone stop the destruction of Alphatia? I am under the impression of Feynman's Multiple histories model, in which every possible even happens, but we go one to one of the more probable ones. Thus History can't be changed unless you switch universes, or it may even be impossible to change altogether. (even by a wish) Either way, what you all want to do is up to you, but I don't like chronomancy as a way to change the past. Visit it, yes, change it, no. max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 17:31:00 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri << Who gets imprisoned immediately after walking into Glantri...>> why? <> Why? - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 17:36:59 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri << I don't think it was completely lifted. I think it was lifted for only the plague, but I may be mistaken. >> The ban is lifted, but there are many restrictions in which the clerics must follow. Such as registering as a cleric etc...... - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 17:37:27 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Deformed Shadowelves In a message dated 98-06-12 00:54:40 EDT, tharquil@yahoo.com writes: >PS: Is there evidence that before the curse mortals could be corrupted bby using the NoS? I am not entirely sure what you are referring to here. If what you are asking is whether mortals could be corrupted by the Nucleus of the Spheres prior to its alteration in WotI, the answer is a definite "Yes". Brannart, Harald, Alasdair, and Don Fernando all suffered negative effects from their experiments with the Radiance well before the alteration of the Nucleus in WotI. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 17:39:10 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Arik's Imprisonment >>So I suppose it is up to whatever works in your campaign... >Yes this is the real CANON! Canon is published material, not original material. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 23:14:21 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri ><< Who gets imprisoned immediately after walking into Glantri...>> >why? ><> >Why? Vanserie Vlaardoen died because he refused to receive clerical healing, on principle. (I think someone willing to die for his views is probably worthy of great respect, whether you agree or not). Jaggar is even more disciplined than Vanserie. And he hates clerics as much as Vanserie did - the main reason he dislikes the Ethies is because they are religious! I think Jaggar would rather lose his princedom than submit to clerical healing. But its irrelevant anyway, because in the Kingdom of Magic there are limitless ways to get an arm back. Whether by necromancy or alchemy or anything else. (Didnt stop Vanserie from dying tho. But I think thats because he refused to admit he had the plague to anyone!) Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 23:30:47 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Any Old Iron? (and Ravenloft) >>>a. Old One is another term for DM >>Yuck! If you put this one to make the others look more acceptable, it works. >What is the reason that you don't like this scenario? Whats wrong with a little bald guy with a red robe who tells riddles? I thought he was cool... >>>b. Old Ones are the Dark Powers >>>This is based on Marco's work "Ravenloft and Mystara: A possible (frightening) connection."venloft. >>Are we playing Ravenloft or Mystara!? >Ravenloft is compatible with Mystara and any other world in my opinion. I don't see why we would have to isolate Mystara to only itself, and not allow >it to spread it's influence outward.....to other planets and planes. AD&D players could enjoy the mix of the realm of horror in their campaigns, whereas >the OD&D players whom wish to learn how to convert or accept some of AD&D could use this as thier first push into the understanding of it. This always puzzled me. I think Mystara would appeal to AD+D players a lot more if it was integrated into the rest of the AD+D universe. And after all, AD+Ders are the people who will be buying Mystara. Not D+D players - otherwise D+D would still be going. Seems all the D+D fanatics are trying to build up a wall between them and anything even remotely connected to AD+D. Given who actually buys the majority of TSRs stuff, I think thats probably a bad move... >Not to mention that a Mystaran domain exists inside Ravenloft already.... It does??? Which one did u have in mind? (Aside from Forlorn = Klantyre, Boldavia = Barovia, Kartakass = the Savage Coast, the Nightmare Lands = Demiplane of Nightmares, Lamordia = Aalban? etc. etc.) Change of subject... Debating Mystara (and nationalism... :) is cool, but what about some more material stuff appearing, like there is all over peoples web sites? I'm sure everyone here has a "Mystara Folder" with all sorts of cool stuff - house rules, adventures, NPCs, spells, campaign background, theology, etc. etc. I appreciated the Nordic elves and everything else like that, but I'm sure everybody has got masses of stuff they havnt posted... Post it - I'm avid for knowledge! (especially adventures, because I'd like to see what sort of stuff others run on Mystara). I know this stuff does get posted, but post more! I know you've all got material out there... Like when Jenni asked for NPCs, and loads got posted - that was cool! Keep it up! Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 23:35:15 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One - ----- >b. Old Ones are the Dark Powers >This is based on Marco's work "Ravenloft and Mystara: A possible (frightening) connection." I also think someone wrote a scenario of an old war between the Dark Powers and the Immortals long, long ago, ending with the Dark Powers being imprisoned, though I can't find the original post. <> YES!!! Someone else HAS read that web site! (Ive forgotten where it is, but I vaguely remember it). Old Ones are Evil Cthulu types! Banished by the Immortals at the beginning of time. But all the Immortals have now forgotten they did it... But thanks to the formation of the Dimension of Nightmares the Old Ones are sneaking back again, and creating an evil realm of their own that sucks in pieces of other worlds - until ultimately all the Prime will be in the Demiplane of Dread and the Old Ones will rule again... Cheerz (mouhahahah) ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 23:36:12 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One >>several Gareths. John, or Bert the Immortal just doesn't sound as impressive as Ixion or Thor :) Ixion - the first murderer from Greek mythology. Always thought he was probably the most interesting Immortal... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 23:39:45 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Chronomancy In the Oard adventure the Immortals have to send mortals back in time to do their dirty work because they are so powerful that their mere presence in part of the timestream where they arent supposed to be does horrible things to reality. Perhaps Immortals of Time are better able to deal with this problem, but with really major stuff perhaps they figure its not worth the risk - saving Blackmoor (when Blackmoor will probably just self destruct again in another couple of centuries because they had so much power) at a risk of unravelling reality and messing up Mystaras past, present and future badly? Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 23:40:50 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Cultural Edifice Complex >I thought Leroy ended this thread? He did? Didnt catch that! (Mr Spock? scanning...) Ah ha! I believe your right! Mr Spock, consider your hand firmly slapped. Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 17:37:39 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Deformed Shadowelves At 05:26 PM 6/12/98 -0400, SteelAngel wrote: >I dunno. the HW boxed set does say that The immortlas couldn't save Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 21:36:18 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #413 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 278d1e575b186f52ae8dd84b07b10526 >Blackmoor. Of course, couldn't save, and didn't want to save are 2 different things. Just remember, those that write history sometimes change it with a stroke of the pen. Just because its in black and white doesn't mean its 100% right. >And then again, if chronomancy was so prevalent among immrtals, why didn't someone stop the destruction of Alphatia? They did. They just choose a different place for it. They could have easily replaced Alphatia where it was but, for whatever reason, choose not to. >Either way, what you all want to do is up to you, but I don't like chronomancy as a way to change the past. Visit it, yes, change it, no. I don't particulary care for being able to change the past but many of the Immortals are suppose to have this ability. I'd rather they didn't but I don't see limiting them concerning Blackmoor only is an viable option so there must be another. This has been a Galwylin© Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ galwylin@airnet.net | ICQ #6755972 | AIM: Galwylin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 01:23:13 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Anti-D&D controversy: pre-empting (LONG) On Fri, 12 Jun 1998, Pierre Savoie wrote: >>From: elrond@post.olivant.fo (Jakup Michaelsen) >>Over here the main source of this is Norwegian books. In my church a lot of people read such books, and thus their attitude. Sorry Håvard :-) >How easily can the Faeroese read Norwegian? If such anti-D&D information came through in Norwegian books, you may want to find if there was ever a Norwegian or Danish D&D boxed set. These would be even more readable to you than English. Jakup, if you understand Norwegian, this might be a good idea. Only the basic and expert rules were ever translated though. The same is the case for the Danish version IIRC. However, the books are hard cover and of excellent quality, especially the Expert rules. And they are quite cheap too. BTW, I find it strange that the anti-rpg attitiudes come from Norwegian books. I have only read a couple of anti-rpg magazine articles. These seemed to be directly translated from BADD material. OTOH, rpgs have received positive PR on TV and on the radio. You people only select the bad stuff, it seems :( Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 21:28:32 -0400 From: Michael Ray Johnson Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Day of Dread (was Almanac/Glantri) Fabrizio Paoli wrote: >A thought about the DoD. >After WotI DoD is a regular feature of the Mystaran year, but something similar existed also before WotI. If you look at the calendars given in some GAZ, you'll see that on 28 Kaldmont there's a 3% chance that all magic fails all over Mystara. Dawn of the Emperors also states that there is a day without magic every year. It's on the last day of the Alphatian year and supposedly only happens within the Alphatian Empire. >This means that a magic-failure has probably already happened at least once in the previous 100 years and more than once since AC 0. So, IMO, there should me some written evidence about past DoD and some of the older mages may have experienced it at least once in the past. Instead, IIRC, such things are never mentioned and the DoD looks as a complete new and unknown feature to Mystaran sages and mages. Isn't it strange? The first PWA claims in the entry for Kaldmont 28 1010 that the Day of Dread has been happening for the "last several years". In PWAII, however, it was suddenly stated that the DoD in 1010 was the first one ever. I have no idea why they changed things around. Michael Ray Johnson. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 21:28:37 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Midland Forest In a message dated 98-06-08 17:52:22 EDT, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no writes: >I don't really like the idea of Mystara having one organization of Druids wwith a grand druid superior to all druids on the planet. Rather I think there should be several Druidic organizations, each with their own hierarchy. Of course, if we compare the D&D and AD&D Druids, one striking difference between the two types of Druid is that the D&D Druid delays competion for advancement until a much higher level -- around 30th level as opposed to 12th level in AD&D. Maybe the D&D Druidic competition is actually part of that class's quest for Immortality (perhaps in that new anti-Entropic Sphere everyone has been talking about?). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 21:28:55 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Lifespan vs. Life Expectancy (was No subject) In a message dated 98-06-12 06:09:57 EDT, ab966@freenet.toronto.on.ca writes: >I think trying to obscure this is an attack on the European diaspora, making those of us unable to feel deserved pride at the great leap forward of the Age of Enlightenment that ultimately mapped the whole world and doubled the maximum human lifespan through navigational and medical knowledge. I don't mean to nitpick, but no amount of scientific advancement has had any effect at all on human life span -- somewhere in the 90+ year old range our bodies fail us and we die, and that has always been the case throughout human history. What our scientific advancement has done is increase the human life expectancy, or the average time that a person lives, by reducing the chances of premature death due to disease and similar causes. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 21:37:23 -0400 From: Michael Ray Johnson Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Any Old Iron? (and Ravenloft) Rob wrote: >>Not to mention that a Mystaran domain exists inside Ravenloft already.... >It does??? Which one did u have in mind? >(Aside from Forlorn = Klantyre, Boldavia = Barovia, Kartakass = the Savage Coast, the Nightmare Lands = Demiplane of Nightmares, Lamordia = Aalban? etc. etc.) The Nocturnal Sea is ruled by the necromancer Meredoth. According to the new Ravenloft hardcover, Meredoth comes from Mystara. He ruled a barony in Norwold, where he performed horribled experiments on the people in his dominion. He turned them all into a new form of undead. After he did this, the island that he lived on was moved into Ravenloft. Meredoth was first introduced in the adventure Ship of Horror, although that had no mention of his history and did not mention Mystara. Michael Ray Johnson *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 18:43:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Adam Curtis Subject: [MYSTARA] - Enough[long]! (was: Cultural Edifice Complex) The purpose of this message is to hopefully silence this string once and for all by offering extensive information on the subject in question. I will only do this once since it has little relation to Mystara, takes alot of my time, and takes alot of everyone else's time to read. I believe I speak for most every subscriber when I say we want this string to end since it's off topic, and I believe the below may do so without the MML operators banning anyone from the list. Here goes . . . << Did Arabic ideas create armor ? Crossbows ? Guns ? Mortars ? Cannons ? What about Astrology ? Medicine ? Newspapers ? These were all things created by European nations, aren't they ? >> Here's incredible proof for the following hypothesis: when people know little or nothing about something, they think they know all about it. Those who know enough about something will admit they don't know all about it. Being a voracious reader of history, I have some expertise here and will share what I know about the history of innovation minus shallow eurocentrism. Armor: Its development has no true "origin". The idea of armor actually appeared at several places around the world independent of each other. Mesopotamia and China both developed armor independently and are mostly responsible for the spread of this idea, but armor also developed independently in sub-Saharan Africa and Native America. Crossbows: They actually came into being in China earlier than Europe, though I don't know if the idea had to leech westward to Europe before the Europeans could put them together. Guns: China discovered explosives long before any early firearms even appeared in Europe (I thought just about everyone knew that). Mortars: The English developed the first truly explosive shell, but it was Napoleonic France that perfected its early development and transformed it into an extremely deadly weapon. Still, before mortar came the necessity of . . . Cannons: China developed it, and England was the first nation to put it to use in Europe after a very slow transfer of knowledge from east to west. Astrology: Just about every culture that existed on this planet developed its own. Medicine: Once again, every culture had its own. Other than in Greece for much of its ancient history, European techniques were actually notoriously primitive in comparison with other culture-specific methods, and that wouldn't change until well after the Black Death. China invented innoculation almost a millennia before Europe picked up the idea. Arabians, Persians, and a few Greeks were hands down the masters of medicine in the west. Ever hear of Avicenna (Romanized from Ibn Sina)? His treatises on medicine were standard reading for most European medical schools for centuries. Not only that, but also for centuries European medical schools weren't considered legitimate unless several Arabs, Persians, and/or Greeks sat on the board. And the United States derived tremendous medical knowledge from Native American herbalism up to and throughout this century. Newspapers: Once again, its origins aren't in Europe. Samarkand, a silk road city in Central Asia, did the lion's share of the innovation required to develop printing presses. German cities added little to press technology, but was responsible for almost all its popularity. So, if we look back through the list, only one thing you mentioned may be considered a true European innovation. The truth is Europe was the backwash area for the rest of the Old World from the fall of the Roman Empire until the beginnings of the trend's reversal in the 1500s. Here's one popular explanation of many for this trend in very short form (NOTE: though lengthy, the below, I assure you, is over-simplified just because it'd take a book to fully explain, and I may get a few details wrong since I'm working from memory): **Stagnation versus Change** Almost every civilization on Earth before the Age of Imperialism embraced as its motto: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." The human mind has a need to understand its surroundings, and most cultures would use a mixture of practical and metaphysical knowledge/theory, usually shaped by environment and experience, to accomplish its rationalization of the physical world leading to what was believed the perfect way of life. Once a culture believed it had achieved a perfected knowledge of the world and way of life, it would generally enter into stagnation. Look at China, for example. It quickly advanced in science and metaphysics during its golden ages in an attempt to solve all problems of life. The Emperor, believed the Son of Heaven, was thought to always need every scrap of knowledge his subjects knew at his disposal to eventually perfect society. Chinese technology made steady gains up through the Ming Dynasty resulting in the development of such notable advances as gunpowder, firearms, timekeeping, agriculture, metalwork, shipbulding, and innumerable other advances developed natively (most importantly pasta! =) ). Their final tremendous native burst of scientific growth came with China's exploration of the world (I think that program began circa 1350-1400). Utilizing massive Junks (1,500 tons as opposed to 300 tons max during the European age of tall ships), Chinese explorers definitely sailed as far as Madagascar to the west and possibly as far as California to the east (I kid you not. A few historians are fairly sure that China reached North America before Columbus. There isn't enough evidence to say with confidence that it happened, nor is there a lack of evidence to say it didn't happen). At this point, historians think the Emperor decided that China had all the knowledge it needed for its perfect society, and relatively little change in Chinese life would occur until the fall of the Manchu Dynasty early this century. Among world civilizations, the only major civilization to adopt the motto: "If it ain't broke, make it better," was European civilization. I have read little as to why this dynamic evolved, but my theory here is that so politically fractured a region, far less unified than most other parts of the old world, would continuously seek advantages in warfare, especially becuase every nation had dozens of counterparts to contend with for land and wealth. The prevalence of massive, never-ending conflict in this corner of the world meant less in resources to devote toward innovation than other areas of the world. Europe's technology for a thousand years was almost universally either derived from Roman heritage or borrowed from the Muslim world. From the Muslims, Europe simply imported things like architectural techniques (gothic castles and cathedrals likely would never have stood without Muslim knowledge), medicine, triangular sails and those boat fins (can't remember what they're called, but they and triangle sails made sailing against the wind possible), stirrups, cotton, Greek Classics galore, the digits 0-9, algebra, eating utensils, and napkins. I believe the true flashpoint of European advancement began with England and France in the Hundred Year's War. England began using the bombard, an early prototype of the cannon, in seiges on French castles. As powerful as the trebuchet but much smaller and far easier to assemble and use, bombards totally levelled castles in a short seige. France was on the verge of collapse until Joan of Arc rallied the French army and peasantry to lift the seige of Orleans. About the time of this enormous reversal, the French had developed the cannon and produced them as fast as possible. They were a huge improvement over the bombard as they were far less likely to blow up and were mounted on wheels making them extremely effective to use in massed combat, not just seige warfare. This brief period ushered in a whole new level in military technology. Armor became almost useless ending the age of the knight and footman, and the further development of musketry made peasants into elite soldiers with little training (it took at least ten years to produce an elite knight). Advances in metalwork were required to create mobile cannons, musketry, and ammo. Europeans also made that little innovation of combining Arab ship design with the French cannon, a combination that made Europe the master of the seas. It was extremely apparent how a little innovation could quickly yield a jackpot in results. The shockwaves eventually reverberated from Lisbon to the Urals to Ottoman Mesopotamia, and the trend toward innovation began sweeping into all aspects of life. Eventually Europe would surpass all other cultures in knowledge and subsequently conquer the world. However, Europe would likely never have achieved its mastery of science and society if not for the essential contributions of the Chinese, Arabs, and umpteen other cultures Europe relied upon for centuries as sources for innovation. Here's the underlying point: every culture on this planet was integral in building the world of the present. Had one of the many never existed, the entire planet may have never evolved beyond the dark ages. This "my superior culture" attitude that seemingly most people have has never yielded anything but destruction, often on a grand scale. Europe and North America fell into that Social Darwinist trap in the 1800s (we're still not totally over it), and look what happened. Millions killed, organized pogroms and holocausts, operative social structures destroyed, overpopulation, total impoverishment of the conquered, environmental destruction . . . all at least indirectly resulting from a silly game to prove which was the superior nation. No culture is superior. All cultures are important! Hopefully I've at least satisfied everyone's need to nit pick over this string. It has no place on the MML as we're here to discuss one of our favorite hobbies that is truly international, and Mystaran History, though intentionally paralleling real history at times, is NOT REAL WORLD HISTORY! Should you feel the need to debate this string's subject further, you have my e-mail adress. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #413 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 03:54:16 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #414 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 58b628e36d1ff71b142d4a6261782af3 mystara-digest Saturday, June 13 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 414 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Cure for Amputations? Re: [MYSTARA] - Abeelat [MYSTARA] - Re: Almanac Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Sylvan Realm Re: [MYSTARA] - Abeelat Re: [MYSTARA] - The NoS and Entropy Re: [MYSTARA] - The NoS and Entropy Re: [MYSTARA] - Midland Forest Re: [MYSTARA] - The NoS and Entropy Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One Re: [MYSTARA] - Kol ID Re: [MYSTARA] - Deformed Shadowelves Re: [MYSTARA] - Day of Dread (was Almanac/Glantri) Re: [MYSTARA] - Powerful beings Re: [MYSTARA] - Deformed Shadowelves Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One [MYSTARA] - Mystara's place in AD&D (was Gareth 6) Re: [MYSTARA] - CoM, WotI Re: [MYSTARA] - AntiD&D controversy Re: [MYSTARA] - Powerful beings Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One Re: [MYSTARA] - Any Old Iron? (and Ravenloft) Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's place in AD&D (was Gareth 6) Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar's invasion ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 21:48:24 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Cure for Amputations? In a message dated 98-06-12 13:39:47 EDT, JamugaKhan@aol.com writes: >"Regenerate"? >Do you mean this level 7 spell against energy losses? No, that would be "Restoration". The "Regenerate" spell is a 7th level Priest spell found only in AD&D. Thus, one would have to infer that the spell "Heal" (AD&D counterpart to D&D "Cureall") cannot regenerate amputated limbs. However, if you are playing under D&D rules you may be able to use the lack of the Regenerate spell to advantage and restore amputated limbs with a spell such as "Cureall". *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 22:08:06 EDT From: DuncanTKD@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Abeelat I believe the bite might do a bit more damage. The bite would also inject the abeelat's poison into whomever is bitten. Someone bitten should probably make some sort os save or die, if they make the save I suggest having them lose half their hit points. On the pluss side anyone ever bitten by an abeelat can no longer be detected by scrying magic. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 22:59:50 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Almanac In a message dated 98-06-09 07:35:48 EDT, Inconu@aol.com writes: >I don't believe that's entirely accurate. If i recall correctly, Protius only served before Khoronus' existence. At least that's my impression after reading WOTI. Do you have a reference point for that statement Jamuga? Since you have WotI, I refer you to book 1, p. 33, top of middle column: "History: Protius is an ancient Immortal who predates the appearance of human-like races upon the world; in life, he was the last and most intelligent member of a race of primitive porpoise-like mammals. A magic-user, he eventually learned to travel through time to his far, far future... the distant past of the Known World. There, Khoronus helped him achieve Immortality and sent him back to his own era." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 22:59:56 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Sylvan Realm In a message dated 98-06-09 07:36:56 EDT, shawn@leme.anu.edu.au writes: >I'll put my geographic hat on now and suggest that countries on the eastern eedges of continents with mountain ranges to their right should be as dry as all hell. In an upcoming post about G+S I am suggesting such a thing and >looking at the real world we only have to look at the aforementioned Chile or even the Kalahari desert or western Australia or the western edge of US as an example of this. But taking my geographic hat of I conceed that Mystaran is magical and it's very easy to say that there is some external factor which allows a jolly nice forest ala the Sylvan Realm exist where it does. The western United States actually does serve as a counterexample -- while southern California is dry, the same cannot be said of northern California, Oregon, Washington, and the Canadian province of British Columbia -- the last of which might well serve as a geographical model for the Sylvan Realm, as I seem to recall reading about that region having an extensive logging industry. And yes, the Rocky Mountains definitely do extend that far north. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 22:50:26 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Abeelat At 10:08 PM 6/12/98 EDT, DuncanTKD@aol.com wrote: >I believe the bite might do a bit more damage. The bite would also inject the abeelat's poison into whomever is bitten. Someone bitten should probably make >some sort os save or die, if they make the save I suggest having them lose half their hit points. On the pluss side anyone ever bitten by an abeelat can >no longer be detected by scrying magic. You are right that there needs to be a saving throw for the bite. Failing means death. Saving means stunned for 3 rounds with strength dropping to 3 until complete bed rest (simulate sickness)? I don't think losing half their hit points would incapacitate them like I remember the character Jo doing. She more or less passed out from the poison. Just my thought on it ;) This has been a Galwylin© Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ galwylin@airnet.net | ICQ #6755972 | AIM: Galwylin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 00:04:59 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The NoS and Entropy In a message dated 98-06-09 13:58:39 EDT, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no writes: >G:KoM's references about the Radience draining magic is an error. I am not mmaking this up. That is official. Then the list of effects of draining by the Radiance needs to be adjusted -- if it is now draining Entropy rather than Energy, the long term effects should be very different from the one listed in Gaz 3 and G:KoM. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 00:05:21 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The NoS and Entropy In a message dated 98-06-09 18:08:33 EDT, Inconu@aol.com writes: ><> >.....but he doesn't work for TSR...... But he used to -- and as the author of much of the best Mystara/Known World material, I am inclined to give considerable weight to his opinions. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 00:05:26 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Midland Forest In a message dated 98-06-09 23:53:30 EDT, BoBoII@AOL.com writes: >What distinctly "orcish" traits are left over in their ssociety? Maybe, as someone said, they have some of the "darker" elements of Druid/Wise that TSR seems to have left behind. Well -- if the local humans like to cut down trees, then they could still be enemies of humans. And that gives me an idea as to how and why they may have adopted druidic ways. Picture, if you will, a tribe of orcs fleeing from vengeful humans into a dark, dense forest. Once there, one of their number encounters a treant and they manage to talk rather than fight -- the orc realizes that he is outmatched and the treant refrains from attacking because the orcs haven't harmed the forest yet. They reach an agreement, and the treants help the orcs drive the humans from the forest. As time passes the orcs learn from the treants and gradually adopt druidic ways. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 23:33:32 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The NoS and Entropy At 12:04 AM 6/13/98 EDT, Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: >Then the list of effects of draining by the Radiance needs to be adjusted -- if it is now draining Entropy rather than Energy, the long term effects should >be very different from the one listed in Gaz 3 and G:KoM. Just to add something else to think on. Perhaps its not all of Entropy the NoS is draining but just a part of it. I was thinking.. when the NoS was draining magic, that is only a part of Energy, not all of it. So, the NoS has turned to draining one part of a Sphere to a different complete Sphere? Or has it? Sorry, I just keep seeming to have more questions than answers from all of this. This has been a Galwylin© Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ galwylin@airnet.net | ICQ #6755972 | AIM: Galwylin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 22:14:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Dominique Rivard Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One - ---Herve Musseau wrote: AAAre we playing Ravenloft or Mystara!? >Mystara, but some people play both (FYI, I don't play Ravenloft!). Is there something wrong with trying to tie Mystara in with other settings? Nothing wrong with defining where and what is Mystara from other AD&D products (for those who play) but IMO defining Mystara accordingly to other AD&D product is no good. Your point B sounded like that. But I've read Macro's hypothesis (even before joining the MML 'cause yes, I'm a newby:"Hi everybody!" ;o) and it looked a little less the OO are evil, more OO are good, those in the what-so-ever mist are evil. For me, there's a great difference if Gareth comes from those in the vortex dimension or those in RL. >FYI (you're probably a newby) it's the 6th post in a series about who Gareth may be (as written in the title). Each post is based on one such >possibility, and explores with as much objectivity as possible what it >implies, what are the consequences, the possible flaws, and likely scenarios a DM may play if he assumes in his campaign that Gareth is such or such. No problem, no attacks here, just making my point of view, Gareth cannot be an OO with is full potential impersonating an immortal, he would make a mess. == Tharquil's French D&D Homepage at http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/5201 _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 22:19:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Dominique Rivard Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One - ---Herve Musseau wrote: >So let's continue entry c.3. >In an episode of ST:TNG, Q is stripped of his powers by the Q Continuum >and must live as a mortal. Yeah! this one sounds great. But as in ST:TNG, Gareth could be forgiven and restored to the status of OO. Just for those who don't like a Gareth mania in their campaign ;o) >d. Gareth is an Old One that abandoned his status Just like Immortals can become Old Ones by dropping their status Well it's true that there are principles that can be seen in Nature at almost every level, but doesn't this sound a little going circle. I repeat (you must be very tired of reading that!) By doing this, you're beginning to define OO and, well it just won't stop, there will ever be a step higher, and IMHO it's just taking us away from the center of interest in this game (I mean mortals). == Tharquil's French D&D Homepage at http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/5201 _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 00:36:43 -0500 From: "Kevin Melby" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Kol ID DM said: >Somebody said: ><> >"Joshuan is a CRAP! All halflings are CRAP, for that matter! This is only an ominuos lie spread to cause chaos among the inhabitants of Kolland. Our mighty Prinz is in no way one of those wily puny and shady shadow elves: i testify this with my word! Heil Kol!" >- Ludwig von Hendriks in one of his latest speech in Glantri City This just proves that Kol IS "a shady shadow elf". "Never believe a politician." Thrydmon the wanderer, catching up on some passed email. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 22:43:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Dominique Rivard Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Deformed Shadowelves - ---Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: >>PS: Is there evidence that before the curse mortals could be corrupted >>by using the NoS? >I am not entirely sure what you are referring to here. If what you are asking >is whether mortals could be corrupted by the Nucleus of the Spheres prior >to its alteration in WotI, the answer is a definite "Yes". Brannart, Harald, >Alasdair, and Don Fernando all suffered negative effects from their experiments >with the Radiance well before the alteration of the Nucleus in WotI. Sorry I wasn't clearer with this question first (and now it doesn't make the meaning I intended without the original eMail so I'll put you a briefing ;o). The corruption of user is not a direct effect of the energy from the NoS but a direct effect of the curse put on it by the immortals of the other sphere who where kinda jealous. So my question was: Is there any evidence that before the curse mortals could be corrupted by using the NoS? It was intended to make sure that my Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 03:54:16 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #414 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 58b628e36d1ff71b142d4a6261782af3 hypothesis was not against anything already "canon" (brrrrrrrr!). == Tharquil's French D&D Homepage at http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/5201 _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 23:00:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Dominique Rivard Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Day of Dread (was Almanac/Glantri) - ---Fabrizio Paoli wrote: >If you look at the calendars given in >some GAZ, you'll see that on 28 Kaldmont there's a 3% chance that all magic >fails all over Mystara. Euh!? Please could you tell me from wich does this one comes from? == Tharquil's French D&D Homepage at http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/5201 _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 02:01:13 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Powerful beings In a message dated 98-06-11 07:00:59 EDT, Inconu@aol.com writes: ><< >So let me get this straight. The "hierachy" for powerful beings goes like this:Mortals >Immortals >Old Ones >DM >MML >Or did I miss a step in their? :-) >> >No, I don't think you missed anything. Looks pretty accurate to me. ;) Actually, it isn't accurate -- in one's own private campaigns, the DM is supreme -- he can easily say, "I don't care what the MML says, we are still doing things this way...." And any player who appealed to the MML for help would be rightfully laughed at. But the MML Admin would be just below the DM and above the MML, in case it matters.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 02:01:16 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Deformed Shadowelves In a message dated 98-06-12 16:21:34 EDT, galwylin@airnet.net writes: >I thought the idea that Blackmoor wasn't saved was still up in the air. WWhen dealing with time (and thus Immortals of Time), just because they were caught off guard doesn't necessarily mean they were unable to save Blackmoor. Blackmoor could still exist in the Hollow World, as a time displaced society, as a city caught in a dimensional flux or the Immortals could have just decided it was better gone. In any case, I don't think being caught off guard is the reason there is no more Blackmoor. The fact is, we just don't know.. yet ;> Actually we do know -- Khoronus created an extra-planar colony of Blackmoorians that survived the Great Rain of Fire because it was located well away from Mystara. For more information, see the entry on Khoronus in WotI. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 23:05:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Dominique Rivard Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One - ---Inconu@aol.com wrote: >>>a. Old One is another term for DM >>Yuck! If you put this one to make the others look more acceptable, it >>works. >What is the reason that you don't like this scenario? IMHO if OO = DM then your giving you an "official" character, you can be a player if it's what you want ;o) The DM, to be impartial, must *not* be part of a campaign. == Tharquil's French D&D Homepage at http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/5201 _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 23:41:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Dominique Rivard Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's place in AD&D (was Gareth 6) >Ravenloft is compatible with Mystara and any other world in my opinion. I >don't see why we would have to isolate Mystara to only itself, and not allow >it to spread it's influence outward.....to other planets and planes. AD&D >players could enjoy the mix of the realm of horror in their campaigns, whereas >the OD&D players whom wish to learn how to convert or accept some of AD&D >could use this as thier first push into the understanding of it. Yeah, it's true for me. Sorry, I'm an OD&D player surrounded by AD&D and I want to keep my identity ;o) OTOH there's already IMHO so much material to make scenarios with, that means I feel I don't need to spend other hundreds of dollars to play with another setting (Mystara's a costly and complete one!). Moreover, IMO opening my campaign to other AD&D worlds would just lose me and my PCs. It's certainly cool to "map" worlds and make links between them but IMO *each setting should keeps it's own flavor*. Knowing where's your setting in all this is definitely cool thought. But things like: "Oh! Yeah, we should go ask Elminster about this spell of him to defeat this Alphatian mage of yours." - told by a Kender!? Really don't fit in my mind, sorry, I'll go see a psychiatrist ;o) I *really* have nothing against AD&D, I'm just not sure if a campaign should go from a setting to another. That's all I've to answer to the charges ;o) Hope you understand my point of view. All in all, long live RPG! == Tharquil's French D&D Homepage at http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/5201 _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 02:57:28 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - CoM, WotI In a message dated 98-06-10 08:35:26 EDT, rmunch@easynet.co.uk writes: >Is any of the Savage Coast info from CoM available on the Net? As i lack CCoM... There is no Savage Coast info in _Champions of Mystara_ -- that product concentrates on the region between the Known World and the Savage Coast. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 02:57:51 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AntiD&D controversy In a message dated 98-06-10 19:36:01 EDT, elrond@post.olivant.fo writes: >Should I openly "confess" my hobby? - Is it worth going through all the hhassle of explaining all about the game to each person hearing this..? 'Cause that would indeed be necessary. That is up to you, but my basic suggestion would be to neither deny nor "evangelize" about your hobby. If you are among people who have not expressed any interest in D&D (pro or con) and have not asked you about your plans for whenever your next gaming session will occur, there is no reason to bring the topic up. But if the topic does come up, tell them the truth -- and refer them to various sources cited by others on this list that will show just how ridiculous the anti-D&Ders really are. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 02:57:55 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Powerful beings In a message dated 98-06-11 08:04:32 EDT, gordon.mccormick@ucd.ie writes: >I notice no players in this setup, maybe that's intentional :) They actually outrank the DM, as they can bring the entire campaign to a screeching halt by withdrawing from the game. But we DMs prefer to keep them in the dark about their real power for as long as we can get away with it. ;) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 00:00:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Dominique Rivard Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One - ---Inconu@aol.com wrote: >>>c. Old Ones are powerful beings just as in the Immortals' theory (i.e., classical theory about the Old Ones) >>Just like the RW scientist who's adding a chemical ingredient in his solution, not diving himself in it. >I don't believe that that's an accurate analogy for the situation at hand. RW >scientists really don't create multiverses. Yes it is, I just have difficulties explaining it ;o) I was comparing the multiverse to whatever solution a RW scientist make an experiment with. The idea is:"An experiment is an experiment". OO are immensely more (in all aspects) then us, their experiments should represent that. I don't have the pretension to compare our work to their's ;o) With this clarified, I'll go on. With our scientific method, a RW scientist start the experiment and wait for the results. He don't modify anything (in theory ;o) just to make the results match is hypothesis. So I was thinking of the OO. == Tharquil's French D&D Homepage at http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/5201 _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 00:04:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Dominique Rivard Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Any Old Iron? (and Ravenloft) - ---Rob wrote: >>>>a. Old One is another term for DM >>>Yuck! If you put this one to make the others look more acceptable, it >>>works. >>What is the reason that you don't like this scenario? >What's wrong with a little bald guy with a red robe who tells riddles? I >thought he was cool... Do you always start your campaigns in an amusement park? That's a good replacement to a smoky tavern. ;op == Tharquil's French D&D Homepage at http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/5201 _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 00:22:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Dominique Rivard Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's place in AD&D (was Gareth 6) >This always puzzled me. I think Mystara would appeal to AD+D players a lot >more if it was integrated into the rest of the AD+D universe. And after >all, AD+Ders are the people who will be buying Mystara. Not D+D players - >otherwise D+D would still be going. >Seems all the D+D fanatics are trying to build up a wall between them >and anything even remotely connected to AD+D. Given who actually buys the >majority of TSRs stuff, I think thats probably a bad move... I see your point, it a real good one. But Has I've written earlier, it's not about the system, it's about mixing settings. Making a group composed of people from different settings is a bad idea IMHO. I feel like you AD&D players have been encouraged to do this (by having TSR trying to link each setting). A really good marketing plotting. No, I stand with: "Choose your setting and stand to it." I'm actually aware that's it's just a difference of opinion and that everybody has his own (I hope, because if not... :o/) == Tharquil's French D&D Homepage at http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/5201 _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 23:50:10 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar's invasion >Yes. >This is something I pointed out to rest of the Almanac team a few months ago during Almanac development, but nobody supported me :-) Ah, someone else who has seen the light :) >Anyway there're a few drawbacks in using that route too: 1) the area from Bramyra to the Broken Lands is likely to be heavily defended, since it's the main attack route to Glantri City. Let's see, going by the army distribution from GAZ3: 2 Banners in Bramyra and 6 Banners in Glantri City no matter what; Boldavia-Klantyre route: 2 Banners in Fort Tchernovodsk, 1 Banner in Rymskigrad, 1 Banner in Glenmoorloch, 1 Banner in Braastar, total 5 Banners. Belcadiz route: 2 Banners in Fort Monteleone, 1 Banner in New Alvar, total 3 banners. Looks like the Belcadiz route is not so well defended... >2) Moglai's hordes are likely to get caught in a bottleneck between the Colossus Mtn. and the Broken Lands (same goes for the pass between Boldavia and Klantrie OTOH). So now he has divided his forces in two and put *both* into bottlenecks? >3) the Broken Lands: no one knows what can come out of that area these days ('noids, shadow elves...) That's a good point. OTOH, one knows *exactly* what can come out of Boldavia - hordes and hordes of undead. I think Moglai Khan wouldn't have let the Broken Lands stop him. >4) Belcadiz trees are not suited to mounted warriors Looking on the map, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of trees in Belcadiz. It's the Erewan elves that are crazy about trees :) >5) there're non roads in that area There are no roads in Boldavia-Klantyre area either (oh, there is a trail on the map, but that's not the same as a road). So let's rewrite the Almanac :) ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #414 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 09:58:37 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #415 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: f0803846525a149e02e839e938311deb mystara-digest Saturday, June 13 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 415 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One Re: [MYSTARA] - Deformed Shadowelves Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's place in AD&D (was Gareth 6) Re: [MYSTARA] - The NoS and Entropy Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Deformed Shadowelves Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar's invasion Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's place in AD&D (was Gareth 6) Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Sylvan Realm Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar's invasion [MYSTARA] - Jaggars Evilness [MYSTARA] - Did Elminster Vacation in Alphatia? Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical Parrying Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One Re: [MYSTARA] - Cure for Amputations? Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Day of Dread (was Almanac/Glantri) Re: [MYSTARA] - Arik's Imprisonment Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal names (was: Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 03:28:45 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One Dominique Rivard wrote: >Nothing wrong with defining where and what is Mystara from other AD&D products (for those who play) but IMO defining Mystara accordingly to other AD&D product is no good. Your point B sounded like that. But I've read Macro's hypothesis (even before joining the MML 'cause yes, I'm a newby:"Hi everybody!" ;o) and it looked a little less the OO are evil, more OO are good, those in the what-so-ever mist are evil. For me, there's a great difference if Gareth comes from those in the vortex dimension or those in RL. I don't think he was defining Mystara according to Ravenloft but just using Ravenloft's lore to give a possibility to a Mystara question. Also, there's still some debate if the Dark Powers are truly evil or serving a good cause by tormenting these evil darklords. I thought the idea intriguing without changing anything in either setting. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ galwylin@airnet.net | ICQ #6755972 | AIM: Galwylin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 03:34:20 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Deformed Shadowelves Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: >Actually we do know -- Khoronus created an extra-planar colony of Blackmoorians that survived the Great Rain of Fire because it was located well away from Mystara. For more information, see the entry on Khoronus in WotI. After reading over Khoronus entry again in WotI, he did set up society 'inspired' by Blackmoor on another planet (in Mystara's prime it seems). So this still doesn't answer what might have happened to Blackmoor after (or before) its destruction. The possibility of it existing somewhere is still possible. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ galwylin@airnet.net | ICQ #6755972 | AIM: Galwylin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 03:42:29 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's place in AD&D (was Gareth 6) Dominique Rivard wrote: >I *really* have nothing against AD&D, I'm just not sure if a campaign should go from a setting to another. That's all I've to answer to the charges ;o) Hope you understand my point of view. I can understand but I do feel you're seeing Mystara as substandard that it can't attract people from other settings and will lose its own to those settings. That's simply not the case as in some efforts to connect Mystara to other settings isn't only to travel between them but to get those few that do to see Mystara as a viable stopping point. Possibily wanting to stay awhile and buy some of those new books coming out for it (we hope). - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ galwylin@airnet.net | ICQ #6755972 | AIM: Galwylin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 04:52:49 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The NoS and Entropy One problem with the LE alignment for Jaggar is that it opens up possibilities that the D&D version of him would have ruled out -- while he certainly hates the Ethengarians and would do nearly anything to annihilate them, he would never willingly and knowingly cooperate with the Immortals of the Sphere of Entropy for that purpose. Also, he would not share the racial biases and hatreds of Hattians from Thyatis and the Heldannic Territories. And even if he does qualify as "evil" by strict moral grounds, there are still many Glantrians who can count on him to be favorable to their interests -- the "NG" PCs in one of my campaigns, for instance. So while I think he does qualify as lawful evil by strict AD&D alignment criteria, dismissing him as a mere villain does not do justice to this well developed personality. By the way, did anyone notice that not-so-subtle shift in attitude about Prince Morphail between Gaz 3 and G:KoM? In Gaz 3, wise Glantrians believed that destroying Morphail would be a bad idea, as it would leave Glantri with a bunch of uncontrolled vampires. In G:KoM, with no relevant changes to the situation, destroying Morphail is suddenly presented as a good idea. These are a couple of reasons that I never much liked the addition of the good-evil axis to Mystaran alignments -- it obscured the complexities of some of the more interesting NPC personalities. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 05:56:06 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri In a message dated 98-06-12 13:41:16 EDT, JamugaKhan@aol.com writes: >NO, the Day of Dread IS a consequence of the draining of the NoS. IIt was explained in Glantri GAZ. Continuing the effect would finally lead to the destruction of all magic in Mystara. But isn't "magic" in some sense associated with the Sphere of Energy? If the Nucleus of the Spheres is now draining Entropy, why is it not adversely affecting the undead or something else that is obviously associated with Entropy? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 05:56:11 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One In a message dated 98-06-12 13:48:33 EDT, herve@hotmail.com writes: >Mystara, but some people play both (FYI, I don't play Ravenloft!). IIs there something wrong with trying to tie Mystara in with other settings? There is one feature that Mystara and Ravenloft should have in common: In Ravenloft, magic that detects or affects the good/evil alignment axis is unable to do so. The same should be true in Mystara, albeit for slightly different reasons. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 05:56:13 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri In a message dated 98-06-12 16:10:36 EDT, eand@WPI.EDU writes: >I don't think it was completely lifted. I think it was lifted for only the pplague, but I may be mistaken. Glantrians don't burn clerics at the stake any more, but they still regard them as less noble than mages or even fighters -- and they are very quick to punish them if they get out of line. By the way, how do you all handle the attitude of Ylari towards wizards and elves? Gaz 2 had that nation fairly tolerant towards both as long as they did not use necromancy or fire magic -- but the D&D Rules Cyclopedia had them executing anyone who used wizardly magic in any form, and no later source seems to have explicitly contradicted the harsher system. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 05:56:16 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Deformed Shadowelves In a message dated 98-06-13 02:02:26 EDT, tharquil@yahoo.com writes: >The corruption of user is not a direct effect of the eenergy from the NoS but a direct effect of the curse put on it by the immortals of the other sphere who where kinda jealous. So my question was: Is there any evidence that before the curse mortals could be corrupted by using the NoS? It was intended to make sure that my hypothesis was not against anything already "canon" (brrrrrrrr!). That would be much harder to determine, as we are not sure just when that curse would have been imposed -- but it certainly would have had to have been before the founding of modern Glantri. In recorded history, no one would have had the opportunity to research the Radiance without fear of being affected by this curse. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 05:56:14 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One In a message dated 98-06-12 18:52:40 EDT, rmunch@easynet.co.uk writes: >Ixion - the first murderer from Greek mythology. Always thought he was pprobably the most interesting Immortal... Murderer? Who did Ixion kill? The only crime of his that I am aware of is hit attempted rape of the goddess Hera. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 05:56:17 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar's invasion In a message dated 98-06-13 04:07:30 EDT, solmyr@kolumbus.fi writes: >There are no roads in Boldavia-Klantyre area either (oh, there is a trail on tthe map, but that's not the same as a road). >So let's rewrite the Almanac :) Given that every previous Ethengarian invasion of Glantri has been by way of the Skullhorn Pass, invading Boldavia is a major strategic change that should be noted. Maybe in a future war the Ethengarians will attempt the southern route.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 11:18:52 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's place in AD&D (was Gareth 6) >>I *really* have nothing against AD&D, I'm just not sure if a campaign should go from a setting to another. That's all I've to answer to the charges ;o) Hope you understand my point of view. >I can understand but I do feel you're seeing Mystara as substandard that it can't attract people from other settings and will lose its own to those settings. That's simply not the case as in some efforts to connect Mystara to other settings isn't only to travel between them but to get those few that do to see Mystara as a viable stopping point. Possibily wanting to stay awhile and buy some of those new books coming out for it (we hope). Just imagine a Realms novel where Elminster goes to Alphatia? That might attract a few people. Especially if classic places like Karameikos/Specularum are mentioned (oh yeah! i remember that from D+D!). Of course, the typical FR novel is just (IMO) awful. So Elminster would probably be far superior to all these Alphatian wizards, be the hardest wizard on the planet, etc. etc. Drizzt would just kill everyone (those Drizzt books are funny.). But if the novel made Mystara seem to be an interesting campaign setting it would pique peoples interest. After all its been done before. Lord Soths story about him ended up in Sithicus converted many Krynners to Ravenloft (at least it did around here) because everyone thought the book was good... (I havnt read it myself) Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 11:22:03 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Sylvan Realm >>I'll put my geographic hat on now and suggest that countries on the eastern >>edges of continents with mountain ranges to their right should be as dry as all hell. In an upcoming post about G+S I am suggesting such a thing aand >>looking at the real world we only have to look at the aforementioned Chile >>or even the Kalahari desert or western Australia or the western edge of US as an example of this. But taking my geographic hat of I conceed that >>Mystaran is magical and it's very easy to say that there is some external >>factor which allows a jolly nice forest ala the Sylvan Realm exist where it >does. >The western United States actually does serve as a counterexample -- while southern California is dry, the same cannot be said of northern California, Oregon, Washington, and the Canadian province of British Columbia -- the last of which might well serve as a geographical model for the Sylvan Realm, as I seem to recall reading about that region having an extensive logging industry. And yes, the Rocky Mountains definitely do extend that far north. It depends on the prevailing winds and any sea currents that might be around. Mystaras continents look a bit like the ancient supercontinent Pangaea (this was actually intended, from the old boxes). So its just one huge landmass, effectively. The KW is sheltered, right in the middle. But the Sylvan Realm is right out on the edge of the landmass. Any meteorologists in here? Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 11:10:48 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar's invasion >That's a good point. OTOH, one knows *exactly* what can come out of Boldavia - hordes and hordes of undead. I think Moglai Khan wouldn't have let the Broken Lands stop him. That might have been the reason they went to Boldavia, in an attempt to kick undead butt. The Ethies are involved with the van Helsing type Boldavians (Erega is an Ethie friend of Sergei Wutyla). Besides, the true power of Morphail hasnt really been seen (as he doesnt want to stir up any of the other princes in Glantri - its not general knowledge that hes a vampire!). I think that elves are far more powerful than human warriors (I'm thinking of the Alfheim/Darokin war, where the elves totally minced the Darokinians, and were'nt even serious about it!). You want to steer clear of them (I believe that in D+D there is no such thing as a 0 level elf? So all elves are effectively 1/1 fighter/mages...). Plus they are Swashbucklers! (lol). Beware... Besides, I assume Fort Tchernovodsk fell quickly because Morphail wanted the Ethies to go straight through Boldavia and wreck Klantyre. Fort Monteleone probably would prove to be more of a thorn in the Ethie side. So it might not have been as easy to get through Belcadiz after all (big fortress, every night the infravision equipped swashbucklers sneak out, burn something of value, capture a couple of commanders and leg it back again!). I imagine elves are probably even better archers than the Ethies, and Belcadiz elves are probably no strangers to mounted combat. Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 09:58:37 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #415 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: f0803846525a149e02e839e938311deb Although overall I agree. I wouldnt attack Boldavia either. But as it happened, thanks to Morphails politicking, I think the Ethies had an easier time in Boldavia than Belcadiz. They got to Glantri City, after all! Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 11:35:21 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Jaggars Evilness >One problem with the LE alignment for Jaggar is that it opens up possibilities >that the D&D version of him would have ruled out -- while he certainly hates >the Ethengarians and would do nearly anything to annihilate them, he would never willingly and knowingly cooperate with the Immortals of the Sphere of Entropy for that purpose. Also, he would not share the racial biases and hatreds of Hattians from Thyatis and the Heldannic Territories. You think just because hes evil means he would consort with Immortals of Entropy??? Uh, I think you and I have some fundamental differences of opinion on alignment... >And even if he does qualify as "evil" by strict moral grounds, there are still >many Glantrians who can count on him to be favorable to their interests -- the "NG" PCs in one of my campaigns, for instance. So while I think he does qualify as lawful evil by strict AD&D alignment criteria, dismissing him >as a mere villain does not do justice to this well developed personality. Just because he is lawful evil doesnt mean to say hes a villain! It means he has a code which he lives for (whatever that may be, protecting Glantri, if you like) and he doesnt really care too much who gets steamrollered in pursuit of those aims. Also, I dont believe that alignment should be played strictly. A good person isnt a paragon of goodness at all times, and an evil person need not act like a psychopath (which is what most people seem to think evil people should act like!) at all times either. Jaggar has friends who he looks out for and so on. I'm going to wheel out G:KoM at this point... It says Jaggars refined sophistication hides only a cold, uncaring soul. Order and discipline are extremely important to him, and he thinks beings of chaos abhorrent creatures that must be destroyed... In D+D terms, Jags is Lawful, out to munch Chaos. ie he could be considered "Good" (I know it doesnt mean that, but it virtually does). In AD+D terms, Jags is LE. He is still out to munch Chaos (does this still make him "good"?). However, beating up Chaos is all he considers to be important. He would consider the loss of an innocents life to be acceptable for the "Greater Good" of rooting out Chaos. He may feel remorse at the loss of an innocents life, but he would do it nevertheless. This is not a good alignment (compare this - heroes break in, bad guy has knife to hostages throat... "Put down your weapons or she dies" - they do. Jaggar breaks in, bad guy has hostage. Bad guy and hostage gets flamed. Jaggar takes body of hostage, sees that it has proper burial etc. Maybe Jaggar tried a hold person to save the hostage? But he went for it anyway. The hostages safety was not at the forefront of his mind.). >By the way, did anyone notice that not-so-subtle shift in attitude about Prince Morphail between Gaz 3 and G:KoM? In Gaz 3, wise Glantrians believed that destroying Morphail would be a bad idea, as it would leave Glantri with a bunch of uncontrolled vampires. In G:KoM, with no relevant changes to the situation, destroying Morphail is suddenly presented as a good idea. Morphail is supposed to be losing his grip on his sanity in G:KoM, because he is beset with enemies (Sergei Wutyla, McGregor etc.) and his bloodlust is starting to get the better of him. So rather than keeping all those vampires in check, he is becoming a bit of a loose cannon. Its a case of which is the lesser of the two evils? Cheerz ROB >These are a couple of reasons that I never much liked the addition of the good-evil axis to Mystaran alignments -- it obscured the complexities of some of the more interesting NPC personalities. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 06:09:37 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: [MYSTARA] - Did Elminster Vacation in Alphatia? Rob wrote: >Just imagine a Realms novel where Elminster goes to Alphatia? That might attract a few people. Especially if classic places like Karameikos/Specularum are mentioned (oh yeah! i remember that from D+D!). While I'd like for Mystara to get more exposure (especially novels as there are thousands of stories being untold), I'm not sure a direct cross-over with the Realms will work. Maybe a cross-over adventure where players go through a gate or something. Elminster himself though... (Besides, I hear he trashes hotel rooms ;) - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ galwylin@airnet.net | ICQ #6755972 | AIM: Galwylin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 12:22:48 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One >>Ixion - the first murderer from Greek mythology. Always thought he was ppprobably the most interesting Immortal... >Murderer? Who did Ixion kill? The only crime of his that I am aware of is hit attempted rape of the goddess Hera. ???. I thought he tried to rape Hera as well, but I bowed to the allegedly superior knowledge of a classics student, who thought he was the first murderer... Perhaps i was right after all... I also like the way Ixion was sentenced to spin on a flaming wheel for all eternity. I'm sure guys at TSR had him in mind when they designed the Immortal. I like the idea of the Old Ones being imprisoned Gods. Appropriate, given Ixion defied the Gods... Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 08:05:28 EDT From: MAESTROPI@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical Parrying <> <> <> Me again. So, as before, I was dwelling on the concept, thinking about maybe introducing it into my current game, when it occurred to me that this sounds a lot like Immortal Power Use. Power use by mortals? It happens. Perhaps that may be a way of limiting how much raw "mana" a mage could use. It would sound fair to give a mage, for example, 2 PP for each level they attain, and a neutral bias on the Prime Plane. This would account for cantrip type effects, creating spell like effects, and provides a base for raw "mana" tactics and combat. Perhaps mages would be required to pick a sphere, limiting what type of magic "mana" can produce effectively, but also allowing for non-spell type magic by a mortal. Someone want to fine tune this idea, or perhaps even want to shoot it out of the water? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 05:54:45 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One >PS: Could Gareth be a fallen OO? (perhaps because of the appearance in WotI) Perhaps he`s just part of the consciousness (I`m sure I`ve misspelt that) of an old one sort of like trying to fit a gallon of water into a 1/2 pint cup. This is all he can transfer into the Mystaraverse otherwise there`ll be severe ramifications, sort of like an Immortal magic jarring into a mortal ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 06:08:53 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Cure for Amputations? >"Regenerate"? I think he`s talking about AD&D not OD&D >I don't think that this would work. I'd promote "Cureall" So my idea abot a scroll does work, for can anyone see why Jagger WOULDN`T have just such an item? <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 06:18:51 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One >Well, maybe because alteration of the experiment is out of the question. >They have to put in a guiding hand to make sure that the experiment doesn't break (Like altering the waveform generator in an LRC circuit) but >they can't just change the experiment without it becoming Irrevocably damaged, and them having to restart it all. Sort of like Federation monitoring of pre-warp cultures you assume the form of those around you in order to keep the prime directive. This is standard psycho-social investgation anyhow isnt it? Maybe the OO`s monitor Mystara based upon their own timescale, sort of like creationism and big bang sort of fit if Gods definition of a day is `when such and such has happened` ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 06:23:15 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri >Who gets imprisoned immediately after walking into Glantri... Your wrong here clerics CAN go into Glantri since the plague during WotI. They`re just severely monitored and forbidden to cast any MU like spells. Of course certain Princes have chosen not to allow clerics within their own principalities. I leave it to the astute reader to work out for themselves the who? and why? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 06:32:01 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Day of Dread (was Almanac/Glantri) >So, IMO, there should me some written evidence about past DoD and some of >the older mages may have experienced it at least once in the past. Instead, >IIRC, such things are never mentioned and the DoD looks as a complete new >and unknown feature to Mystaran sages and mages. Isn't it strange? Maybe there was some evidence but it could have been lost in the ensuing centuries. OTOH maybe it was a much more localised phenomenon. Then again when you REALLY want it how often do you roll that 01-03 or 98-00. the fact that it`s only on some calenders leads me to favour the middle one modified by the first though buy thats only IMHO. <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 06:46:30 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Arik's Imprisonment >I'm still going on the assumption that Arik was banished by someone other than an Immortal. In fact, I think it was just a small group of heroes that did the act and the only Immortal involvement was that some were clerics. IIRC in WotI bk1 there is an artifact power `Immortal life trapping` one of the mortal heroes could have had such a device this also give clear reason for curse as ALL artifacts in mortal hands screw them up. However the immortal has to enter willingly so for this to work he must have been under the threat of something even worse. Sort of like the guy in the `carven oak` in Minrothad. Maybe Aric had ceased ties with his patron and was scouting for a new Home Plane when this happened (He used to squat in his patron`s place), so he`s gonna DIE if these pesky mortals keep on messing with him (he`s weak because whilst he`s been off looking for that perfect plane, you know the on off the main highways,but close to the shops his following has died out, so he`s on borrowed time eg he`s in his last week of his ten years grace) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 09:57:44 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal names (was: Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One) << I still think Gareth is a weird name for an immortal, since I know several Gareths. John, or Bert the Immortal just doesn't sound as impressive as Ixion or Thor :) >> Oh, boy! Petra is a female name used in Germany, (exactly it must be an old Jew name: Petrus - Petra; or is it Roman? Petra Oleum - Stone Oil! Just wondering...) Vanya sounds like a Russian male name. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #415 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 14:06:03 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #416 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 19677d8663d94ff23f5a911bacb2322a mystara-digest Saturday, June 13 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 416 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Chronomancy Re: [MYSTARA] - Anti-D&D controversy: pre-empting (LONG) Re: [MYSTARA] - Anti-D&D controversy: pre-empting (LONG) Re: [MYSTARA] - Jaggars Evilness Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal names (was: Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One) Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - CoM, WotI Re: [MYSTARA] - Deformed Shadowelves Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical Parrying Re: [MYSTARA] - Any Old Iron? (and Ravenloft) Re: [MYSTARA] - Deformed Shadowelves Re: [MYSTARA] - Day of Dread (was Almanac/Glantri) Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Almanac Re: [MYSTARA] - Why the Council of Alphatia is reasonable [MYSTARA] - Adri Varma Plateau - an answer!!!! Re: [MYSTARA] - Deformed Shadowelves Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One Re: [MYSTARA] - Midland Forest Re: [MYSTARA] - Arik's Imprisonment Re: [MYSTARA] - Powerful beings ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 07:02:23 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Chronomancy >In the Oard adventure the Immortals have to send mortals back in time to do >their dirty work because they are so powerful that their mere presence in >part of the timestream where they arent supposed to be does horrible things >to reality. >Perhaps Immortals of Time are better able to deal with this problem, but >with really major stuff perhaps they figure its not worth the risk - saving >Blackmoor (when Blackmoor will probably just self destruct again in another >couple of centuries because they had so much power) at a risk of unravelling >reality and messing up Mystaras past, present and future badly? IIRC didnt Khronos get some of the people out and into a star empire in order to complete his quest for Immortality? I think it`s in either HW or WotI ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 14:56:17 +0100 From: elrond@post.olivant.fo (Jakup Michaelsen) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Anti-D&D controversy: pre-empting (LONG) Well I'd prefer it in English. Most of the anti-frpg books were books dealing with the evils of toys and media, and had a chapter of two on D&D. Jakup >Jakup, if you understand Norwegian, this might be a good idea. Only the basic and expert rules were ever translated though. The same is the case for the Danish version IIRC. However, the books are hard cover and of excellent quality, especially the Expert rules. And they are quite cheap too. BTW, I find it strange that the anti-rpg attitiudes come from Norwegian books. I have only read a couple of anti-rpg magazine articles. These seemed to be directly translated from BADD material. OTOH, rpgs have received positive PR on TV and on the radio. You people only select the bad stuff, it seems :( *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 14:53:46 +0100 From: elrond@post.olivant.fo (Jakup Michaelsen) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Anti-D&D controversy: pre-empting (LONG) >How easily can the Faeroese read Norwegian? If such anti-D&D information came through in Norwegian books, you may want to find if there was ever a Norwegian or Danish D&D boxed set. These would be even more readable to you than English. Very well, but I'd prefer it in English. >Louise Shanahan. This may help: the particular Christian sect of these people may not appeal to the brands of Christianity practiced in the Faeroes. >:-> >They say D&D is "childish" but also "too complicated." They say D&D is "boring" but also "obsessive". "They" must be awfully confused. Cool! Thanks for the info. Jakup *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 16:07:05 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Jaggars Evilness I appologize for heavy quoting in the below, but please bear with me. On Sat, 13 Jun 1998, Rob wrote: Kaviyd: >>One problem with the LE alignment for Jaggar is that it opens up ppossibilities >>that the D&D version of him would have ruled out -- while he certainly hhates >>the Ethengarians and would do nearly anything to annihilate them, he would never willingly and knowingly cooperate with the Immortals of the Sphere of Entropy for that purpose. Also, he would not share the racial biases and hatreds of Hattians from Thyatis and the Heldannic Territories. Rob: >You think just because hes evil means he would consort with Immortals of Entropy??? I think what Kaviyd is trying to say is that it opens for the possibility of working with Entropy. Which would be out of the question for a Lawful OD&D character. Rob: >Just because he is lawful evil doesnt mean to say hes a villain! It means he has a code which he lives for (whatever that may be, protecting Glantri, if you like) and he doesnt really care too much who gets steamrollered in pursuit of those aims. >Also, I dont believe that alignment should be played strictly. A good person isnt a paragon of goodness at all times, and an evil person need not act like a psychopath (which is what most people seem to think evil people should act like!) at all times either. Jaggar has friends who he looks out for and so on. >I'm going to wheel out G:KoM at this point... It says Jaggars refined sophistication hides only a cold, uncaring soul. Order and discipline are extremely important to him, and he thinks beings of chaos abhorrent creatures that must be destroyed... >In D+D terms, Jags is Lawful, out to munch Chaos. ie he could be considered "Good" (I know it doesnt mean that, but it virtually does). IIn AD+D terms, Jags is LE. He is still out to munch Chaos (does this still make him "good"?). However, beating up Chaos is all he considers to be important. He would consider the loss of an innocents life to be acceptable for the "Greater Good" of rooting out Chaos. He may feel remorse at the loss of an innocents life, but he would do it nevertheless. This is not a good alignment (compare this - heroes break in, bad guy has knife to hostages throat... "Put down your weapons or she dies" - they do. Jaggar breaks in, bad guy has hostage. Bad guy and hostage gets flamed. Jaggar takes body of hostage, sees that it has proper burial etc. Maybe Jaggar tried a hold person to save the hostage? But he went for it anyway. The hostages safety was not at the forefront of his mind.). >From this description, I think LN would be much more appropriate. The way I see LE is one who actively bends and uses laws, rules and principles to further his own ways, and (possibly) to harm others. I am inclined to use the Evil=villain, but I have thrown out alignments altogether, because the interpretations of alignments are too subjective to work in my group. Seems to me that the AD&D products removed several interesting features from Mystara. No clerics in Glantri (although that was in WotI), Morphail loosing it etc. I say we change things back to normal. IMO that was much more interesting and much more fun. Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 16:13:29 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal names (was: Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One) On Sat, 13 Jun 1998 JamugaKhan@aol.com wrote: ><< I still think Gareth is a weird name for an immortal, since I know sseveral Gareths. John, or Bert the Immortal just doesn't sound as impressive as Ixion or Thor :) >> >Oh, boy! >Petra is a female name used in Germany, (exactly it must be an old Jew name: Petrus - Petra; or is it Roman? Petra Oleum - Stone Oil! Just wondering...) I've never liked Petra for that reason. Peter, the rock/cliff. It is a Hebrew name IIRC. Petra Oleum? hmm..reminds me of an Asterix story.. Someone suggested we'd call Gareth Garetha to make it sound more Sindi. Works for me. >Vanya sounds like a Russian male name. I know that there are norwegian girls called Vanya or Vanja. I doubt that it is of nordic origin though. BTW, Thor, Thorfinn, Thorbjorn, Tore etc are very common names aroun here. This is because of old traditinons of naming people after gods in the days of the vikings. I've heard of a guy called Odin aswell, but that is less common. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 16:16:53 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri On Sat, 13 Jun 1998 Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 98-06-12 13:41:16 EDT, JamugaKhan@aol.com writes: >>NO, the Day of Dread IS a consequence of the draining of the NoS. IIIt was explained in Glantri GAZ. Continuing the effect would finally lead to the destruction of all magic in Mystara. >But isn't "magic" in some sense associated with the Sphere of Energy? If the Nucleus of the Spheres is now draining Entropy, why is it not adversely affecting the undead or something else that is obviously associated with Entropy? Last year I posted a mail suggesting effects of the new NoS. I think weakening undead was the main effect. At the time, there seemed to be a concensus that Entropy couldn't be drained though, which is what I've been rambling about in several postings on this thread.. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 07:28:28 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - CoM, WotI >There is no Savage Coast info in _Champions of Mystara_ -- that product concentrates on the region between the Known World and the Savage Coast. Apart from the log of course but that is taken from dragon issue153-198 approx where there were many other rules put forward for the interest of players. Look at the difference between OD&D red steel info and AD&D box there`s lots of scope here for any GM to confuse those pesky players who seem to have more money than sense and just get all the stuff but never run ANYTHING, or am I the only one this happens to? <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 07:34:24 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Deformed Shadowelves >After reading over Khoronus entry again in WotI, he did set up society 'inspired' by Blackmoor on another planet (in Mystara's prime it seems). So this still doesn't answer what might have happened to Blackmoor after (or before) its destruction. The possibility of it existing somewhere is still possible. IIRC ther are the Blacklore elves in southern HW whose tech only works in their valley so blackmore `has` been saved but is now controlled so that it wont cause another ROF ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 15:46:51 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical Parrying >Me again. So, as before, I was dwelling on the concept, thinking about maybe >introducing it into my current game, when it occurred to me that this sounds a >lot like Immortal Power Use. >Power use by mortals? It happens. Perhaps that may be a way of limiting >how much raw "mana" a mage could use. It would sound fair to give a mage, for >example, 2 PP for each level they attain, and a neutral bias on the Prime Plane. This would account for cantrip type effects, creating spell like effects, and provides a base for raw "mana" tactics and combat. Perhaps mages >would be required to pick a sphere, limiting what type of magic "mana" can produce effectively, but also allowing for non-spell type magic by a mortal. >Someone want to fine tune this idea, or perhaps even want to shoot it out of >the water? I have been slating this whole thing - but heres a thought. I always want to make mages different from each other (which is why I like the Glantrian Circles). I currently give Alphatians the channelling wizard stuff (out of Spells and Magic book). Maybe some other branch of mage should get this stuff, as a new ability to set them apart from other mages. Although I still think its highly unbalancing. How about a detriment to using this stuff? Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 10:52:30 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Any Old Iron? (and Ravenloft) << >>Not to mention that a Mystaran domain exists inside Ravenloft already.... >It does??? Which one did u have in mind? >> I'm talking about the canon Mystaran domain that's in Ravenloft. It was released in '97 in the Domains of Dread hardcover book. The darklord is 20th level and the Darklord of the Nocturnal Sea. His origins lie in Norworld originally. His name is Meredoth (he wasn't ever a NPC described in Gazs or anywhere previously). - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 10:56:26 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Deformed Shadowelves >They did. They just choose a different place for it. They could have easily replaced Alphatia where it was but, for whatever reason, choose not to. If i recall correctly, the Immortals had a very difficult time preserving Alphatia. >I don't particulary care for being able to change the past but many of the Immortals are suppose to have this ability. I'd rather they didn't but I don't see limiting them concerning Blackmoor only is an viable option so there must be another. I thought TSR changed this ability for Immortals. Thanatos and Khoronus can time travel, but i thought that was just about it. Wasn't there a revision of those rules? - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 10:58:45 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Day of Dread (was Almanac/Glantri) << >After WotI DoD is a regular feature of the Mystaran year, but something similar existed also before WotI. If you look at the calendars given in some GAZ, you'll see that on 28 Kaldmont there's a 3% chance that all magic fails all over Mystara. >> Those stats would actually mean that there would've been 3 DoD's in the last century, and 30 DoD's since the year 0. Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 14:06:03 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #416 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 19677d8663d94ff23f5a911bacb2322a - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 11:02:54 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Almanac << Since you have WotI, I refer you to book 1, p. 33, top of middle column: Thanks Kaviyd..... - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 11:44:57 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why the Council of Alphatia is reasonable In a message dated 98-06-10 14:21:03 EDT, JamugaKhan@aol.com writes: << << Yes and no. If you look at the CoM Box and look at the Design Book, you'll see the description on Alphatian Windriders. Some have a comment about these types being commisioned by the Imperial Court. So essentially, the Imperial Court would control them. The term "Air Fleet" was used to state a difference between the two services. Had I included both under the singular "Imperial Navy" designation, someone would have pointed out that aspect. Better safe than sorry. >> A difficult thing! The Princess Ark is organized and led according to the standards of the Alphatian Imperial Navy. >> Not really sure as to your intended response. So if I have misinterpreted it, my appologies. If so just say that the response is just an addendum to my earlier post. Yes...but was not the PA created or refurbished by Haldemar who basically bankrupted the family. To aid this strain, he accepted an Imperial commision. Thus the PA is an Imperial Windrider. True it has some priviledges that other skyships do not have. But the Princess Ark is not your typical skyship. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 12:22:13 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Adri Varma Plateau - an answer!!!! Hello all, I have read with interest the discussion concerning the Adri Varma plateau, and this reminds me of a similar discussion back in '96, in which people were asking about the profusion of cacti on the plateau itself. The following is Bruce Heard's "official" ruling on what is there (besides the Sand Folk, by Steven Wilson), and please note the the contents therin are the words of the writers, and not my own: ****************************************************************** This message was dated 19 Sept 96, 13:36:22 pm local time: Patrick and Matt wrote: The map in WotI shows saguaro cacti all over the badlands in this area, although the location should make this area way too cold for saguaros. Is WotI wrong? Are these just some sort of weird things that just LOOK like saguaros? Is this area strangely affected by some sort of magic that makes it warm (similar to the explanation for Ylaruam's warmth)? I think the saguaros should be left out, they were probably a mistake...though there could be some other strange desert plant up there... Bruce's response: But of course, these must be the notorious northern saguaros! (says he with a straight face) These are the result of a Glantrian agricultural experiment gone astray. These things are like kudzu growing out of control. They have the ability to leach warmth from the sunrays and from hapless creatures wandering nearby. After second thought, the Glantrians left their failed experiment to grow there as a deterrent against nomadic incursions and monstrous visits. (Hey, it's fantasy, right!) :) *************************************************** Well folks, there you have it, straight from the archives! :-) Not only do we have a plausible explanation as to why there are cacti on an admittedly northern plateau, we also have a new monster. Anyone up for doing the stats on the Northern Saguaro? Also, Bruce mentioned nomadic peoples as being a threat to Glantri. What sort of nomads would these be? Could these be the sand folk, or something else? Enjoy! Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 13:06:47 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Deformed Shadowelves In a message dated 98-06-12 14:03:11 EDT, eand@WPI.EDU writes: << On Fri, 12 Jun 1998 Alex295@aol.com wrote: >IMO the Blackmoor did not have the NoS type reactors until late in their civilization period. And it was the activation of these "new" sources of power >that blew up. Not by any shortcomings in design, but more due to the incapatibility of the FSS type reactors and the Mystara plane. And if you read my short work on the last moments of the Beagle, this seems very evident :)>> Cool.....then I am not as kooky as I suspected. Remember folks, there is always a method to my madness..... :-) >NoS could also blow up like its Blackmoor/FSS predecessors. Of course a simple Maybe so.. That would be scary. An underground explosion of that magnitude would be PRETTY bad for the KW. (What KW? We have a new hole to the Hollow world..)>> Yes...not only that but also possibly creating a hole big enough to give cause for the hollow shell of Mystara to collapse. Or at least compromise the skyshield for both worlds. <> I have to agree that since the GRoF Raf has definitely had the time to define the problems of the Blackmoor super reactors as well as refine the design. IMO his quest to prove his sanity lays more with perfecting the reactor. Not just recreating the design that blew up the Blackmoor. What better way to prove to oneself that one is rational than to demostrate that that rational is still active and correct. Plus it keeps Mystara from experiencing a second yet much smaller GRoF. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 13:40:41 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One In a message dated 98-06-12 15:21:35 EDT, you write: << >b. Old Ones are the Dark Powers >This is based on Marco's work "Ravenloft and Mystara: A possible (frightening) connection." I also think someone wrote a scenario of an old war between the Dark Powers and the Immortals long, long ago, ending with the Dark Powers being imprisoned, though I can't find the original post. >> Personally I like this since I myself have RL and Mystara linked together. But here is where I get off track. The Dark Powers are considered evil. IMO they are not. Instead they are either true neutral or a compilation of the alignments. Or they are above the perception of an alignment. Their role is to keep the really bad guys of the multiverse imprisoned and away from the general population of the inhabitants of the multiverse. Being true neutral or above alignment, they rationalize that evil cannot be destroyed but instead be kept seperated and kept in check. And being as they are, they have to make that imprisonment as comfortable as possible. The proverbial "bleeding heart liberals" of exhalted beings. The folk that comprise the citizens of the DoD are regular folk, probably ferried to RL by magical means. I suggest the Blackballs as that means to fill the larders of the darklords. These Blackballs and the mists also pull in hero types to present the DLs with adversaries to remind them that they are not the only force to be reckoned with. The Vistani are servants of the DPs. Not willing servants as they are as much prisoners to the demiplane as everyone else. However, they have a different status among the interred. Perhaps representing true neutrality. Recent RL publications have a description of the misty void in the center of the DoD, the Shadow Rift. I read somewhere that this was explained as a gate to the Negative Plane. This brings up an interesting theory that the DPs could actually be using the Shadow Rift as a garbage chute to get rid of nasty folks. Or it could be a means to bridge out and "feel" for the really bad guys of the multiverse. This detection leading up to the decision to draw them in or not. If you notice most DarkLords were drawn in after some evil act based on a rash decision. Strahd (Morphail) acted on lust aided by lack of sleep. Azalin (Brannart) made his pact as his hunters bore down on him. Soth acted in a fit of rage at himself for his own dishonor. Mordenheim was interred due to his stubborness. Meredoth (Mystaran dude) was drawn in for his singlemindedness for research after making undead out of his vassels. Other DLs are DLs due to their being the nastiest beings within a realm. In "canon" RL the DPs are vague and mysterius force that runs RL. When pressed in a RL forum these creators will not divulge what the DPs are. I stand by my earlier statement that the DPs are a plot tool to explain stuff by the TSR RL staffers aka the Karget. With the Karget keeping mum on the exacts on the DPs I formed my own opinions. As such, they are bound to draw questions and disagreement. So to nip it in the bud, this is all IMC. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 19:43:51 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Midland Forest On Sat, 13 Jun 1998 Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 98-06-09 23:53:30 EDT, BoBoII@AOL.com writes: >>What distinctly "orcish" traits are left over in their sssociety? Maybe, as someone said, they have some of the "darker" elements of Druid/Wise that TSR seems to have left behind. >Well -- if the local humans like to cut down trees, then they could still be enemies of humans. And that gives me an idea as to how and why they may have adopted druidic ways. Picture, if you will, a tribe of orcs fleeing from vengeful humans into a dark, dense forest. Once there, one of their number encounters a treant and they manage to talk rather than fight -- the orc realizes that he is outmatched and the treant refrains from attacking because the orcs haven't harmed the forest yet. They reach an agreement, and the treants help the orcs drive the humans from the forest. As time passes the orcs learn from the treants and gradually adopt druidic ways. I've had similar ideas myself. A small orcish tribe surrounded by enemies was forced to flee south into the northern part of the forest. (Assuming that there are several humanoid cultures in the north.) They were starving, humiliated and weak, but learned to live by taking what the forest offered. Some of the wiser orcs met a Treant and he taught them the secrets of the druids. They returned and guided their people and thus the orcs were not destroyed. I was thinking about connecting this with the Hyborean timeline, but I haven't found anything useful there yet. Any thoughts on how old this culture should be? about 1000 years perhaps? 500 years? I am thinking that they are on friendly terms with local treants and even Garakars tolerate them. The orcs have also had some contact with the wild elves in the region, but the peoples try to avoid eachother. ideas? Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 14:02:51 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Arik's Imprisonment In a message dated 98-06-09 20:12:22 EDT, you write: << Has it ever been revealed who imprisoned Arik into another dimension? I'm working on an adventure that deals with who imprisoned him and since I haven't found out who this person was yet, I wanted to make sure I wasn't stepping on any official toes ;) -- This has been a Galwylin© Production >> Hmm...well IMC I have Arik as being imprisioned by the Spheres. Or should I say the heirarchs unilaterally sentenced him for whatever attrocities he did. The actual entities that took him into custody and imprisoned him were Immortals of my own design, Noland and Nemesis. Their role among the Immortals is that of enforcers. Their task is aided by artifacts that enable them to do such things. Noland himself is an aged Immortal. He is of the pretech Blackmoor era. Most Immortals are not aware of his true age nor level. Most realize that he has always been there. Old Immortals such as Ixion, Hel, Terra, Thanatos have trouble remembering just when he appeared. Nemesis is a much younger Immortal. In fact she is the daughter of one of Noland's mortal identities. Noland has done this before but only she has attained Immortality. Nemesis is devoutly loyal to her father and his cause. As a side note, I once had envisioned Noland as being Gareth. It fits with his own ideals on Immortal/Mortal interactions. Now, I had Noland and Nemesis imprison Arik in a special place. A place where powers could keep his kind in check. Where better than Ravenloft. Vecna, a demigod, is there. If it can hold him then it can hold any exhalted being or Immortal. Now you guys are probably screaming "but Arik is not listed as a Darklord". True. But the land of the mists is a kooky place that baffles both physics and time. In the RL timeline, Arik may not have arrived yet. Or his attributes of his thousand eyes could be the mists itself, making him a tool of the Dark Powers. The RL mists are all seeing, popping up to shield DarkLords. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 12:05:24 -0600 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Powerful beings Kaviyd meandered fecklessly... >>So let me get this straight. The "hierachy" for powerful beings goes like >>this:Mortals >>Immortals >>Old Ones >>DM >>MML >>Or did I miss a step in their? :-) >> >>No, I don't think you missed anything. Looks pretty accurate to me. ;) >Actually, it isn't accurate -- in one's own private campaigns, the DM is supreme -- he can easily say, "I don't care what the MML says, we are still doing things this way...." And any player who appealed to the MML for help would be rightfully laughed at. >But the MML Admin would be just below the DM and above the MML, in case it matters.... Nah, ol' Max had it right. The MML admin is a few steps lower ladder than mortals when it comes to anything other than the list itself (where my rank would probably be Hierarch : ). I did notice, though, the concept of DM was seperated and ranked, but not players. Curious... I wonder how much influence on the world some GM's let their players have. Besides, if I had control on people's campaigns some of you would be sending me hate mail. : ) Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com ICQ #4253672 "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #416 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 19:50:21 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #417 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 54674a1b209a427c522c31f2a1fac8b4 mystara-digest Saturday, June 13 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 417 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal names (was: Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One) [MYSTARA] - Klantyrish Warrior Poets Re: [MYSTARA] - Deformed Shadowelves Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Sylvan Realm Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's place in AD&D (was Gareth 6) Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's place in AD&D (was Gareth 6) Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Sylvan Realm Re: [MYSTARA] - Cure for Amputations? Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Cure for Amputations? Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar's invasion Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar's invasion Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar's invasion Re: [MYSTARA] - Deformed Shadowelves Re: [MYSTARA] - Cure for Amputations? Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One Re: [MYSTARA] - Did Elminster Vacation in Alphatia? Re: [MYSTARA] - Deformed Shadowelves Re: [MYSTARA] - Did Elminster Vacation in Alphatia? Re: [MYSTARA] - Midland Forest-cohabitation [MYSTARA] - Some new kits for Mystara in D&D format ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 17:25:34 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal names (was: Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One) >Vanya sounds like a Russian male name. And it is. A friendly form of Ivan, in fact. ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 19:31:35 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Klantyrish Warrior Poets When I knocked out that list of bardic kits, I was thinking about Klantyre (I'm a major Braveheart fan, and during the WotI IMC I intend to have the PCs helping out with the Followers of the Claymore (they have NO MAGES and two priests in the party!)). Skalds are appropriate, but then skalds use mage spells, which i dont consider appropriate at all. I thought perhaps give them priest spells instead? A good solution... However, I then checked out the dwarven chanter (not dissimilar to a Skald) and they get all sorts of neat stuff, which with a bit of conversion would make a Most Excellent non-spellcasting Klantyrish bard.. here it is, a mishmash between Skalds and Chanters... KLANTYRISH WARRIOR POET Qualifications :- Standard ability scores Weapon Profs :- Must take claymore, broadsword or axe when starting at 1st level NWPs :- Bonus - local history, poetry, singing, ancient history (note - Laterre, not Mystara!) Armour :- Nothing heavier than splint mail Benefits :- Counter Song :- Over the years of life in the magocracy, warrior poets have devised a means of countering certain magicks. If the bard is able to find a spell and learn it (ie put it in their "spellbook") they become highly resistant to the effects of that spell. When targeted by a spell the bard knows the counter for, a successful "learn spells" roll will counter it, as if the bard had 100% magic resistance. In addition, if the bard can actually "dispel" durational magic if he knows the spells counter. Again, a "learn spells" roll is required for success. If successful the target spell is cancelled for one round per level of the bard. War Chant :- By chanting a war song, the bard can inspire his allies as they go forward into battle. The warrior poet must chant for three rounds rounds before combat begins. The chanting has a range equal to 10' radius per level of the bard, and the chants effects end when the bard receives his first wound, or after 1 round per level of bard. The bard may choose one of the following six benefits per three levels, due to inspiration (keeping mens minds focused on battle, giving them an unbeatable feeling etc.). Bonus hit points equal to the bards level A morale bonus of 1 for every six levels of bard +1 to attack rolls +1 to damage rolls +1 to saving throws -1 to armour class. Battle Chant :- When the bard fights while singing or chanting (even under his breath) he gains a +1 bonus to attack rolls. In addition, if using a broadsword, claymore, axe or spear he gains a +1 damage bonus. These bonuses apply in almost all situations, unless the bard is silenced, underwater etc. Oratory :- These bards can influence the reactions of a crowd by use of skilled oratory, historical stories etc. The bard may only influence wizards in a negative manner (ie making them hostile), although any non spellcaster allies of the wizards may have second thoughts about attacking the bard. Such oratory takes 1d10 rounds, at the end of which the subjects must save vs death with a -1 penalty per three levels of the bard or have their reactions adjusted one level up or down. Hindrances :- These bards cannot cast mage spells, their counterspell ability replaces that. These bards hate and distrust all mages, thanks to their experiences in Glantri. A warrior poet will never associate with any Glantrian mage, although mages from other lands may be allowed to prove their worth (the Claymore needs all the allies they can get!) These bards often gain a reputation in Glantri, often being the more visible aspect of the Followers of the Claymore (recruiting, inciting uprisings, etc.). Disguises are often necessary, or the bard may find that his reputation with the wizards of Glantri has preceded him... Well, I just knocked this mix up off the top of my head. Any suggestions/feedback? Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 14:35:35 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Deformed Shadowelves In a message dated 98-06-13 04:47:25 EDT, you write: << Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: >Actually we do know -- Khoronus created an extra-planar colony of Blackmoorians that survived the Great Rain of Fire because it was located well away from Mystara. For more information, see the entry on Khoronus in WotI. After reading over Khoronus entry again in WotI, he did set up society 'inspired' by Blackmoor on another planet (in Mystara's prime it seems). So this still doesn't answer what might have happened to Blackmoor after (or before) its destruction. The possibility of it existing somewhere is still possible. This has been a Galwylin© Production >> IIRC There is a Blackmoor nation in one of the other setting (Krynn, Oerth ???) Also IIRC this Blackmoor is also vaguely defined and described. This could be that society but it has forgotten its roots and diverted from its founders. Hmm...perhaps this society was pretech. So the resemblance between the Mystaran Blackmoor and that one on the other world are not exactly simular. Idea.....what if Khoronus's society was not only ferried off Mystara but also back in time. That society later developed into the Federation which later built the Beagle that later crashed on Mystara. And the rest is history.....weird but cool eh? Not to mention ironic. And how I do love irony. Irony and reocurring villians....hey that kind of kills two birds with one stone. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 15:04:42 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Sylvan Realm I said: >>Perhaps the Endworld Line (I think that's what the western mountains are called) is an effective barrier between west and east. Shawn said: >Yeah, they're a fairly effective barrier. I can't recall are the Endworld Line and Arm of Immortals connected ... no hang on a minute, in the Masters boxed set I don't think that there were any mountains drawn on the Arm of the Immortals, I think these were an addition by Bruce later. If I'm remembering correctly this would mean that it is up to us whether the Endworld Line and Arm of Immortals mountains make a long chain down this side of western Brun. Digging out the ol' HW boxed set, there is indeed a gap between the Mountains of the Immortals' Arm and the Endworld Line, measuring in the area of 500 miles or so. GAZ 5 places the Sylvan Realm farther north, west of the Endworld Line - and along the western coast of the continent. Using North America as an example, climate-wise the Sylvan Realm would be something like coastal British Columbia, just north of Vancouver Island, IMO. In other words it's northern, but likely ocean currents and air patterns make it slightly milder than the region over the mountains. Shawn said: >The reasons why Gombar and Suma'a haven't made contact with the Savage Coast are perhaps a little more complex than "just because of the mountains", it amounts to that however. Firstly we have Bruce's wonderful suggestion of a weather disturbance in the Strait of Izonda which makes east-west travel across difficult, for those who've read Geoff's Lhomarrian/Y'hog stuff, we then have a reason for why the area exists. For those who do not know, Shawn is referring to the sunken island of Y'hegg-T'uhath, upon which Y'hog was built. Those dastardly Carnifex might still be down there, plotting fiendish things in their undersea prison. Ever since the island sank, though..... It wouldn't be right to say any more... :-) Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 12:22:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Dominique Rivard Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's place in AD&D (was Gareth 6) - ---Galwylin wrote: >I do feel you're seeing Mystara as substandard that Mystara a sub standard!? You think I would be playing in a setting for more than a dozen years and, all the time, thinking it's a sub standard? Sorry, it's really not the case. >it can't attract people from other settings and will lose its own to those settings. That's simply not the case as in some efforts to connect Mystara to other settings isn't only to travel between them but >to get those few that do to see Mystara as a viable stopping point. Possibly wanting to stay awhile and buy some of those new books coming out for it (we hope). I hope so too! But I think that connecting settings is a marketing thing. Don't you think that TSR wouldn't be the happiest company in the world if people playing AD&D (or OD&D for that matter) would buy everything from every setting? But isn't it always what they've tried to do? I just don't want to play this game, If I want something peculiar in Mystara, I'll create it. But, again, I don't have many things from AD&D (a set of rules or two :o/) and if I had, perhaps this text would be different. But I don't have and I don't feel like buying, Mystara's all I need. No Elminster, no kenders, just the old original setting. == Tharquil's French D&D Homepage at http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/5201 _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 15:58:19 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara's place in AD&D (was Gareth 6) In a message dated 98-06-13 06:45:34 EDT, rmunch@easynet.co.uk writes: >Just imagine a Realms novel where Elminster goes to Alphatia? That might aattract a few people. Especially if classic places like Karameikos/Specularum are mentioned (oh yeah! i remember that from D+D!). Better yet, have him visit Glantri. In the course of the novel it is revealed that he is the one who told the editors of the almanacs those stories about Kol being a Shadow Elf Cleric, and by an actual meeting with Kol he learns the error of his ways. Maybe he also learns an important secret about the Radiance as well, but then returns to Toril before that knowledge can "corrupt" him.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 15:58:17 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Sylvan Realm In a message dated 98-06-13 06:45:02 EDT, rmunch@easynet.co.uk writes: >It depends on the prevailing winds and any sea currents that might be aaround. Mystaras continents look a bit like the ancient supercontinent Pangaea (this was actually intended, from the old boxes). So its just one huge landmass, effectively. The KW is sheltered, right in the middle. But the Sylvan Realm is right out on the edge of the landmass. That actually makes the parallel with British Columbia a bit closer -- the geographical position of the Sylvan Realm seems to correspond pretty closely with that of British Columbia or perhaps even southern Alaska. In pictures that I have seen of those areas, I haven't noticed any particular shortage of trees. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 16:02:59 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Cure for Amputations? << No, that would be "Restoration". The "Regenerate" spell is a 7th level Priest spell found only in AD&D. Thus, one would have to infer that the spell "Heal" (AD&D counterpart to D&D "Cureall") cannot regenerate amputated limbs. However, if you are playing under D&D rules you may be able to use the lack of the Regenerate spell to advantage and restore amputated limbs with a spell such as "Cureall". >> O.k., thank you ... at least a little bit. I don't use the AD&D rules for many reasons, and one of it is the incredible mass of magical spells. When talking about D&D the only spell to cure amputations is "Cureall" or "Heal". That means that there are indeed some native Glantrinians able to cure Jaggar's little accident. Ironically one of these is Jaggar himself, if he only could cast the spell... OTOH the accident of Moglai Khan is much simpler cured. We only need his corpse and a cleric level 12. Looking for "Moglai Khan - The Resurrection", coming in this theatre... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 16:03:04 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri << By the way, how do you all handle the attitude of Ylari towards wizards and elves? Gaz 2 had that nation fairly tolerant towards both as long as they did not use necromancy or fire magic -- but the D&D Rules Cyclopedia had them executing anyone who used wizardly magic in any form, and no later source seems to have explicitly contradicted the harsher system. >> Perhaps it were the winds of change. With a rising influence of the Kin Faction the sultan had to make new harsher laws in a (vain) hope to resist the change. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 16:03:02 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Cure for Amputations? << So my idea abot a scroll does work, for can anyone see why Jagger WOULDN`T have just such an item? <;-P >> He wouldn't be able to cast a clerical spell from scroll... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 16:03:08 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar's invasion << I imagine elves are probably even better archers than the Ethies, and Belcadiz elves are probably no strangers to mounted combat. >> You imagine wrong! This assumption is ridiculous! The horse warriors and brataks from the Sea of Grass are both the best riders and the best archers all over the world. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 16:03:06 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar's invasion << > There are no roads in Boldavia-Klantyre area either (oh, there is a trail on >the map, but that's not the same as a road). >So let's rewrite the Almanac :) Given that every previous Ethengarian invasion of Glantri has been by way of the Skullhorn Pass, invading Boldavia is a major strategic change that should be noted. Maybe in a future war the Ethengarians will attempt the southern route.... >> The Boldavia campaign a failure some Ethengarian adventurers will travel to the World Mountain, of course led by an experienced shaman, to a part of the Spirit World, where the flow of time is directly opposed to that of the World Yurt. When leaving the Spirit World they can tell the Golden Khan how unwise the try crossing through Boldavia was. Then Moglai Khan will redirect his invincible hordes to attack those whimpy and decadent wizards from the south. Jamuga Khan Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 19:50:21 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #417 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 54674a1b209a427c522c31f2a1fac8b4 "World: Look and tremble before the might of the hordes from the Sea of Grass!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 21:41:46 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar's invasion ><< I imagine >elves are probably even better archers than the Ethies, and Belcadiz elves are probably no strangers to mounted combat. >> >You imagine wrong! This assumption is ridiculous! >The horse warriors and brataks from the Sea of Grass are both the best riders and the best archers all over the world. >Jamuga Khan >"Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." Sorry oh great Khan for this heresy, in suggestion that the Ethengars may have a near-equal in the art of mounted warfare... :) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 21:46:28 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Deformed Shadowelves >IIRC There is a Blackmoor nation in one of the other setting (Krynn, Oerth ???) Also IIRC this Blackmoor is also vaguely defined and described. This could be that society but it has forgotten its roots and diverted from its founders. Hmm...perhaps this society was pretech. So the resemblance between >the Mystaran Blackmoor and that one on the other world are not exactly simular. Oerth. Its identical, pretty much, to the Mystaran Blackmoor, although the only connection is that it was Gary Gygax's first setting, I believe. You explore a crashed spaceship in Expedition to the Barrier Peaks, an olde Oerth module. >Idea.....what if Khoronus's society was not only ferried off Mystara but also >back in time. That society later developed into the Federation which later built the Beagle that later crashed on Mystara. And the rest is history.....weird but cool eh? Not to mention ironic. And how I do love irony. >Irony and reocurring villians....hey that kind of kills two birds with one stone. >Alex Typical time flange... "Is this one of those circular time things? We hate those" - Temporal Investigations branch of the Federation... :) Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 16:57:08 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Cure for Amputations? In a message dated 98-06-13 16:16:59 EDT, JamugaKhan@aol.com writes: >When talking about >D&D the only spell to cure amputations is "Cureall" or "Heal". That means that there are indeed some native Glantrinians able to cure Jaggar's little accident. And going by D&D rules, we have the advantage that "Heal" is a 9th level Magic-User spell available to any Magic-User of level 21+. So all Jaggar would need to do to get is arm back is negotiate with one of the remaining high level Princes.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 17:05:02 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One Alex295@aol.com wrote: >If you notice most DarkLords were drawn in after some evil act based on a rash decision. Strahd (Morphail) acted on lust aided by lack of sleep. Azalin (Brannart) made his pact as his hunters bore down on him. Soth acted in a fit of rage at himself for his own dishonor. Mordenheim was interred due to his stubborness. Meredoth (Mystaran dude) was drawn in for his singlemindedness for research after making undead out of his vassels. Other DLs are DLs due to their being the nastiest beings within a realm. Rad was captured by destroying Alphatia... oh, wait. We're not sure where he is yet, are we? ;> - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ galwylin@airnet.net | ICQ #6755972 | AIM: Galwylin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 18:30:24 EDT From: BoBoII@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Did Elminster Vacation in Alphatia? In a message dated 06/13/98 6:23:33 AM, you wrote: << Elminster himself though... (Besides, I hear he trashes hotel rooms ;) He and Ettiene went on a two week Zzonga bender that resulted in the Broken Lands. (Used to be a real nice place too . . . There was a Gazateer (now out of print) that described this little country which was based on the real world Luxembourg.) I hear they also desroyed the fabled Empire of Dorfin, which was actually designed along the lines of the Disney Empire BoBo II , prince in exile of M-Luxembourg *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 17:34:42 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Deformed Shadowelves Rob wrote: >Oerth. Its identical, pretty much, to the Mystaran Blackmoor, although the only connection is that it was Gary Gygax's first setting, I believe. YYou explore a crashed spaceship in Expedition to the Barrier Peaks, an olde Oerth module. Actually Blackmoor was the first setting and was from Dave Arneson. Gygax's first was Greyhawk. I think the only simularities between Mystara's Blackmoor and Greyhwk's Blackmoor is the name. Maybe that's the colony Khoronus set up? As far as I know, Expedition to the Barrier Peaks didn't have anything to do with Blackmoor. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ galwylin@airnet.net | ICQ #6755972 | AIM: Galwylin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 18:55:44 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Did Elminster Vacation in Alphatia? On Sat, 13 Jun 1998 BoBoII@aol.com wrote: >I hear they also desroyed the fabled Empire of Dorfin, which was actually designed along the lines of the Disney Empire In which case, the people of Mystara hailed them as heroes :) Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 19:12:41 EDT From: BoBoII@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Midland Forest-cohabitation In a message dated 06/13/98 12:57:23 PM, you wrote: < Subject: [MYSTARA] - Some new kits for Mystara in D&D format I will continue posting my house-made kits as an example and humble aportation to the debate about the use of kits and their adaptability to D&D. As with the prankster elf I sent some days ago, I aspire to bring advantages to a minumum and offer proportional limitations, so that players choose kits more on a role playing convenience basis than trying to get the "maximum firepower". This was my idea with the prankster elf. By curtailing his selection of offensive spells, we get a character who offers a role-playing challenge (are not you tired of those players who roleplay an elf only to be able to wield magical swords, don plate armour and fry monsters with fireballs without caring at all about the concept of the elven race and nations?). 1) EMMENDATION TO THE PRANKSTER ELF As Galwyn suggested, I find now the kit too owerpowered if we allow to continue the magical advance after level 10 for free. I propose that, as magical levels were traded for (partial) thief levels), from level 10 onwards attack ranks may be traded for magical levels, so that the elf may reach his/her maximums after a LONG time of adventuring. 2) THE RANGER It is not a true kit, but an adaptation to the option of "travelling fighter", which may be chosen after reaching level 9: instead of becoming a Paladin, Knight or Avenger, the fighter may become a ranger IF: a) He commits himself to a cause which implies the defence of nature and sentient beings against the ravages of evil (be it humanoids, too-expansive empires or Entropic masterminds). b) He is of Lawful or Neutral alignment. Lawful rangers find that the life and well-being of sentient beings has priority. Neutral rangers tend a bit more towards wildlife and the equilibrium of nature (similar to the druidic strictures). c) He accepts living the life of a wanderer, staying in a place only as long as his abilities are needed and always searching new challenges. He may never keep any treasure above what he may carry on his person or on horseback. d) Although he gains no special benefits before reaching level 9, he must have got some experience of wilderness survival during his previous adventuring time, so that, at level 9, he must possess the following Weapon and General Skills: Weapon Skills: Any missile weapon + any throwing weapon General Skills: Tracking Fire-Building Survival in at least one terrain type Climbing e) He must have a Dexterity score of at least 13 The benefits obtained are: a) For each 3 levels of experience, he gains the MS, HS and CW percentiles of a thief, so, a 9th lvl ranger starts with the skills of a 3rd lvl thief. b) If Wisdom is 13 or above, the ranger may learn Druid spells (only) with a casting level equal to his level /5 (rounded down), so no spells at lvl 9 and his 1st lvl spell at lvl 10. To start using spells, the ranger must find a druid and get a month of training. The druid will tipically ask a favour in exchange, such as cleansing a forest of vicious gnoll tribes or questing an item needed to cleanse a sacred lake. c) If the ranger spends at least a week alone in a virgin territory (no civilized settlement in a range of 75 miles), he may search for a Neutral or Lawful creature native to the territory (a bear in forests, a grifon in mountains...) and, on a favorable reaction roll, the creature will become a "henchman" of the ranger as long as it is well-treated and cared of. The creature´s HD may not exceed the ranger´s level, or more than two such animal friends may be kept at the same time. If one companion is slain or lost, the ranger may quest for another. 3) THE CLERK/SCRIBE This is a cleric kit which defines the scholar (and at times monastic) cleric who spends his apprenticeship copying books, illuminating scrolls and depicting carefully maps and diagrams in order to avoid the loss of precious knowledge (remember, no printing press in Mystara!). Most of them start as apprentices in monasteries or universities, as aides to the too-busy town curate. later on, they may get up on the hierarchy and be the directors of a scriptorium, librarians or even counsellors of important rulers. Some of them take to adventuring for various reasons: a) they wish to search for rare tomes or acquire some fresh knowledge which has been lost to books ("the only record about the Zargonnic cult in Cydinicea before AC 1000 was lost in a fire. Let us get to the Lost City and have a look at those wall-paintings") b) they are assigned as translator/interpreters/advisors to a party sent on a mission to a obscure area (like a HW expedition or a exploration party to Davania). c) they read some forbidden books and are threatened/expelled, etc (Remember "The Name of the Rose"?) Requirements: 1) INT of 9 at least should be recommended (through many scribes from the RW could not read, they only copied letters as drawings, this kit depicts an enlightened scribe). 2) General Skills: Two languages (if they cannot be acquired by INT bonuses, they must be bought with General Skill slots), one Knowledge or Science of academic nature (History, Legends, Geography, Physics) OR one Art (must be Drawing) OR Cartography. Only one of them is required, more can be chosen if possible. 3) Alignment is normally Lawful (lots of discipline required), though many adventuring clerks/scribes have chosen their way of life due to their not-too-lawful characer. 4) Due to the absorbing nature of their training and their tendence to always have some writing tools at hand, Clerks cannot use a shield. They also gain only one Weapon Skill at level 1, instead of the two normally assigned to clerics. Advantages: 1) They gain the ability of reading any language they come upon. They start with a percentile equal to their INT score and each level it goes up 5%, with an important addition, which makes this skill better than the Thief ability at 4th level: every time they learn a new language, the can add a 10% to their score (this reflects their chances of applying ethimology to what they read). 2) They have a great understanding of scrolls: they still cannot use MU scrolls, but they may know which spell is written on a MU scroll. They can even, on a successful roll of their Read Languages ability, know some details of the scroll: whether it has a Glantrian facture, or is clearly Elvish or if it has some ramblings and sigils typical of a Chaotic wizards who has commerce with fiends. On reaching 9th Level, when they try to make their own scrolls, they may add a 10% bonus to their chance of success. 3) If in a library or archive, they may find useful information (as determined by the DM) in half the usual amount of time that other characters would require). 4) THE ALPHATIAN STAGE-MAGE This kit is bsed on the Alphatian taste for theater, which is madness in some realms (I am playing a 1000 AC campaign). Some magic-users there devote many of their skills and spellcasting abilities to the staging of tragedies, dramas and comedies. In the exotic empire, this job or hobbie may become a way of life. Many stage wizards engage in adventuring to meet people or professions they want to portray (this may take a long time and risk if you are playing the role of a mad Azcan king), to run away from an enraged king who was heavily satirized upon in a witty comedy or to live experiences which must be acted later (Do you imagine a company who has written "The Sinking of Alphatia" and are planning to bring a whole island underwater only to know what people feel in that situation?") Requirements: 1) General skills must include: Acting (this is similar to Deception), and either of Dancing, Tumbling or Singing. 2) Spell choice is restricted to what a wizard would normally find useful on stage (an ALPHATIAN stage, not any High-School performance). This may be determined by the DM, but is mostly common sense. Sleep would not be useful, nor any Power Word or Death Spell (do not be convinced by players who pretend to stage snuff plays with slaves), Clairvoyance, etc. On the other hand, Ventriloquism, Phantasmal Force, Invisibility, Polymorph are permitted, as well as any flashy missile spell (Fireball, Lightining Bolt... Many high level actors cast anti-magic shell and act their deaths when hit by a fireball which reduces the stage props to ashes); so are conjuration spells (Wall of..., Colour, Bleach), to produce quick (and even enchanted) props. 3) Stage mages cannot help being flashy and theatrical in their casting, so, when casting a spell, they must abide by the Individual Initiative rule and add 2 to the roll. Quick (or lucky) monsters will act before the mage finishes his wavering of hand a reciting of ominous verses (mostly quotes from famous Alphatian plays) which go along with the true spell. Advantages: 1) Any Phantasmal Force the wizard cast is saved at -1 2) In their portraying of different roles, the mage gains lots of improvisation knowledge. Most important, they use (fake) weapons nearly everyday (where is a good drama without a couple of duels or battles?). So, the mage can use any one-handed hant-to-hand weapon with a -3 penalty ot the to-hit roll. If he uses that weapon during adventuring frequently (DM determines), he can choose to become proficient the next time he gets a weapon advance. Later on, he may reach the Skilled level of Mastery (stage wizards, although surprisingly good at fencing, will never devote enough training to become Experts or Masters). If this seems unbalancing, think how difficult (or dangerous) is for a mage to use (frequently) a hand-to-hand weapon in combat. I wait for any comments, suggestions and more kit ideas. Andreas de Skie *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #417 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 06:11:28 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #418 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 3ca9112123fdd04e3ab2e72bf8185fa0 mystara-digest Sunday, June 14 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 418 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar's invasion Re: [MYSTARA] - Cure for Amputations? Re: [MYSTARA] - Jaggars Evilness [MYSTARA] - Old One = Dark Powers (Gareth6) [MYSTARA] - Entropy's Alignment Re: [MYSTARA] - Some new kits for Mystara in D&D format [MYSTARA] - Complimentary Course: Raw Mana Manipulation (was Magical Parrying) Re: [MYSTARA] - Day of Dread (was Almanac/Glantri) [MYSTARA] - Apologies Re: [MYSTARA] - Cure for Amputations? Re: [MYSTARA] - Day of Dread (was Almanac/Glantri) Re: [MYSTARA] - Jaggars Evilness Re: [MYSTARA] - Complimentary Course: Raw Mana Manipulation (was Magical Parrying) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 19:42:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar's invasion At 04:03 PM 6/13/98 EDT, you wrote: ><< I imagine >elves are probably even better archers than the Ethies, and Belcadiz elves are probably no strangers to mounted combat. >> >You imagine wrong! This assumption is ridiculous! >The horse warriors and brataks from the Sea of Grass are both the best riders and the best archers all over the world. I will partially agree. The Ethengar horsemen are the best mounted archers in the world, bar none. But the elves as a people are probably better archers on foot, and I imagine the Ylari horsemen are nearly as good on horseback. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 17:22:52 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Cure for Amputations? >>So my idea abot a scroll does work, for can anyone see why Jagger WOULDN`T have just such an item? <;-P >> HHe wouldn't be able to cast a clerical spell from scroll... JJamuga Khan Wouldn't he, also, need both arms to do it even if he were otherwise able to cast ? Later. Jesse. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 21:44:34 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Jaggars Evilness << I think what Kaviyd is trying to say is that it opens for the possibility of working with Entropy. Which would be out of the question for a Lawful OD&D character.>> Not really. A character can be lawfull to entropy. However you would be correct with the possibility of Jaggar turning to Entropy for aid. But that would be a very rare occurance. It would have to be under severly extreme circumstances, and even then, it would depend on the situation at hand. >Seems to me that the AD&D products removed several interesting features from Mystara. No clerics in Glantri (although that was in WotI), Morphail loosing it etc. I actually liked what they did, i mean, would you rather everything stayed the same or did you just think those additions weren't to your liking? .....but that's just an opinion subject anyways. >I say we change things back to normal. IMO that was much more interesting and much more fun. I don't get what your stating here. I assume your just saying that you aren't adapting the AD&D products for Mystara to your campaign? - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 22:01:39 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Old One = Dark Powers (Gareth6) Concerning the Old Ones are Dark Powers: How about the quest for becoming an old one for the Immortals? Could it possibly be a huge plot designed by the old ones to recruit the (best of the best) of Immortals to add to thier power? Or perhaps the Old Ones were once known of and was a warning to the Immortals..... but through millenia the story got distorted and now some Immortals actually aspire to become one. Perhaps they want the power, and thier greed leads them to imprisonment with the rest of the Dark Powers. Gareth could be a small portion of the Dark Powers that was released during WotI (which is why it's only as powerfull as an Initiate). The appearences could be attempts to spark curiosity in Immortals, and perhaps lead them on a road to becoming one. Just some thoughts, - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 21:45:27 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: [MYSTARA] - Entropy's Alignment I saw this on the Planescape list and thought some of you might like to read over it. Some of the terms aren't going to make sense since they deal with Planescape but the general point about Entropy is pretty good I think and one that I agree with. What's your opinion? ***** Subject: [PLANESCAPE] - Entropy's alignment Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 21:11:04 -0500 From: "SHAMILTO" Reply-To: planescape@mpgn.com To: << Entropy, IMO, is a force of nature much like gravity and electromagnetism, and is neutral as concerns alignment. It can be good or evil. A Sinker paladin could seek to bring destruction and decay to the forces of chaos and evil. Also, a Sinker paladin may see entropy as an inevitable destinty. It can't be stopped, and it is futile to try. Instead, the paladin would help people to prepare for entropy and make it as painless as possible. >> I agree with the second part of this; that a Sinker paladin might help people prepare for Entropy as best as they can. I also agree that Entropy (like gravity) is neither Good nor Evil. It is, however, Chaotic, and not Lawful. It's very nature is that things are becoming less orderly and more disorderly. Chaos. One might argue that, according to the Doomguard, everything will eventually be destroyed. That means there is nothing left, no planes, no law, no chaos, no Mulva, no "Hello... Newman", no Kramerica... Oh, I got onto the wrong list. No good, no evil, no alignment. This would indicate that Entropy is an unaligned force, a neutral one. But this isn't really an accurate interpretation.... the Alignment system in AD&D is skewed, especially the Law Chaos axis, but I think it is obvious that Entropyis roughly equivalent to chaos, regardless of the final product (according to the Doomguard.) Chimerasame - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ galwylin@airnet.net | ICQ #6755972 | AIM: Galwylin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 22:06:00 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Some new kits for Mystara in D&D format Andrés Piquer Otero wrote: >I will continue posting my house-made kits as an example and humble aportation to the debate about the use of kits and their adaptability to D&D. Great! >2) THE RANGER >b) He is of Lawful or Neutral alignment. Lawful rangers find that the life and well-being of sentient beings has priority. Neutral rangers tend a bit more towards wildlife and the equilibrium of nature (similar to the druidic strictures). I think that sounds like a good division based on the alignments. >c) He accepts living the life of a wanderer, staying in a place only as long as his abilities are needed and always searching new challenges. He may never keep any treasure above what he may carry on his person or on horseback. Also a good thing. Sounds like one of old style heroes of the southwest. >a) For each 3 levels of experience, he gains the MS, HS and CW percentiles of a thief, so, a 9th lvl ranger starts with the skills of a 3rd lvl thief. And at 12th gains the abilities as a 4th level thief if I understand correctly? I like this. A very well thought out. >3) THE CLERK/SCRIBE >remember, no printing press in Mystara! I thought they had them now? >(Remember "The Name of the Rose"?) Great movie, btw. Never had a chance to read the book. Another very nice kit! >4) THE ALPHATIAN STAGE-MAGE >2) Spell choice is restricted to what a wizard would normally find useful on stage (an ALPHATIAN stage, not any High-School performance). This may be determined by the DM, but is mostly common sense. Sleep would not be useful, nor any Power Word or Death Spell (do not be convinced by players who pretend to stage snuff plays with slaves), Clairvoyance, etc. On the other hand, Ventriloquism, Phantasmal Force, Invisibility, Polymorph are permitted, as well as any flashy missile spell (Fireball, Lightining Bolt... Many high level actors cast anti-magic shell and act their deaths when hit by a fireball which reduces the stage props to ashes); so are conjuration spells (Wall of..., Colour, Bleach), to produce quick (and even enchanted) props. I like this but I do wonder if they wouldn't save some expense by just using illusions. >2) In their portraying of different roles, the mage gains lots of improvisation knowledge. Most important, they use (fake) weapons nearly everyday (where is a good drama without a couple of duels or battles?). So, the mage can use any one-handed hant-to-hand weapon with a -3 penalty ot the to-hit roll. If he uses that weapon during adventuring frequently (DM determines), he can choose to become proficient the next time he gets a weapon advance. Later on, he may reach the Skilled level of Mastery (stage wizards, although surprisingly good at fencing, will never devote enough training to become Experts or Masters). If this seems unbalancing, think how difficult (or dangerous) is for a mage to use (frequently) a hand-to-hand weapon in combat. An interesting side benefit. Your description of how its acquired is very good. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ galwylin@airnet.net | ICQ #6755972 | AIM: Galwylin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 21:22:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Adam Curtis Subject: [MYSTARA] - Complimentary Course: Raw Mana Manipulation (was Magical Parrying) I've read just about every post concerning my rough draft for the idea of magical parrying/ Raw Mana Manipulation, and everyone had very interesting comments, such as giving it a new arcane base on power points or mana points, keeping it closely based on the current system, and even making it the eighth secret craft of Glantri (I *really* liked this suggestion. Go ahead and try it). After the considerable feedback, I think I may have a base for a functional new skill out of Glantri that's incorporated various ideas kicked around thusfar. First, I'll write about how I formulated/refined my idea for Raw Mana Manipulation thusfar, then I'll write up Raw Mana Manipulation as it might appear in Gazzetteer 3, then invite more comments to further tighten up the rules. I originally wanted a way to lengthen magical duels since D&D/AD&D rules for magic can easily end duels with a single spell. Within the current mechanics, all I could come up with was a modified form of the dispel spell that had a casting time of 1 (for AD&D), only a quick somatic component (for AD&D), and could be used on any spell as it was being cast. It wasn't very creative or fun, and it would require the use of spell slots much needed for other spells. So I came up with four guidelines for magical parrying to solve the above problems. The means would make use of magic (naturally), it would need almost no casting time so the practitioner actually had time to disrupt the enemy's casting, it would require no lengthy prep time like standard magic, and it would not require spell slots. Obviously my original idea didn't meet the last two specifications, but I at least wanted the solution related to the current metaphysics of D&D/AD&D. So I came up with the idea of simply grabbing raw, unformed mana (the magical energy used in spells), concentrating it, and channeling it at the target caster. As any little alteration in a caster's delicate gathering of mana for an intricate spell will make the spell completely fizzle, the above bombardment of unformed mana would theoretically disrupt the spellcasting. I then looked at other things that could be accomplished in the same way. If one accepts that mana so quickly gathered could be very slightly altered almost instantly, several things come to mind. Cantrip-like things that wizards love to use for dramatics could be conjured without wasting spell slots. Also, the slight alteration of mana into a physically harmful substance, like fire or electricity, could serve as a quick magical attack without using an actual spell. So then I posted the idea for Raw Mana Manipulation under the ane "Magical Parrying". Here're the essential parts of it with any necessary explainations on theory and what I changed/added to/from the original post after getting feedback. What it is: Raw Mana Manipulation is essentially working with mana (ie. magical energy) to achieve various magical effects without the laborious preparation required of true spellcasting. Where/who can use it and where is it learned: Only mages (and elves for D&D. Foresters may *not* as their powers come from very rigid and narrow training provided by Vyalia Elves in Thyatis) may use Raw Mana Manipulation considering spellcasting is far easier to learn, and no other class can cast spells not contingent upon immortal/deific help. Theoretically bards could learn it, but almost none of them formally study magic. Only the Glantri School of Magic teaches this skill. Unlike other complimentary courses taught at the school, the student must earn three levels while studying it to perfect its use since it's a far broader subject than those covered in other courses offered (not to mention that it's potentially much more useful than the other courses, but that requires playtesting to find out). What Raw Mana Manipulation can do: through pulling raw mana out of the air, compressing it, and discharging it, the released mana can disrupt enemy spells as they are cast. By slightly altering gathered mana, minor, cantrip-like spell effects may be achieved. By quickly gathering a large amount of mana and slightly modifying it into a harmful substance, the mana may be used as a magical attack. I originally said 1d4 pts of damage per level of wielder (max 10d4) could be achieved, but there's a general concensus that it would be too powerful, so I took alot of the punch out of it (see below). Limiting this skills usage: if mana manipulation didn't have any drawbacks, obviously its practitoners would use it way too much (magic duels would likely last way too long). So achieving the more difficult and useful effects of mana manipulation must come with a price to discourage overuse. My solution is that using mana parries and mana attacks lowers Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 06:11:28 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #418 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 3ca9112123fdd04e3ab2e72bf8185fa0 constitution considering quickly drawing together mana and working with it would be physically taxing in a world that normally requires loads of time to throw a spell. Some pointed out it would have little practical effect as long as the mage stayed above a constitution of 2 (the attribute rating I designated as the "instantly fall unconscious" point). Therefore, I'm adding cumulative penalties for constitution as it dips lower and lower (see below). Skill roll: I didn't include details on this in my last post. After much thought, I determined that not only intelligence would be necessary for mana manipulation, but wisdom and dexterity would also play a role in its usage because I believe it'd definitely take a higher level of intuition and sheer agility to grab raw mana out of the air and work with it right there than it does with normal spellcasting which requires lengthy preparation. So while the skill roll will be based on intelligence, no mage (or elf in D&D) can learn Raw Mana Manipulation without minimum scores of 10 in dexterity and wisdom. Magical parry effects on enemy spells: some thought an outright negation of the enemy spell on a successful skill roll was too powerful, so I've also weakened parries a little bit (see below). Now I'll write out exactly how Raw Mana Manipulation might appear in Gaz 03 under "Complimentary Courses". I'm going for the simplest explaination of the mechanics possible, so I will provide little or no detail on the metaphysics behind it beyond the intro, and I'll also subdivide the entry for further clarity. As these rules are for both D&D and AD&D, a few rules will be specific to one system or the other since one system may require rules the other system does not account for (such as casting time). D&D specific rules will be encapsuled with ## while AD&D specific rules will be encapsuled with %%: ________________________ *Raw Mana Manipulation* This course teaches the student how to draw upon mana (a name for magical energy used in spells) and use it to create magical effects without the painstaking preparation required of normal spellcasting. Unlike normal spellcasting, Raw Mana Manipulation is very inefficient creating magical effects and is much weaker than normal spells in general. However, the versatility and speed of Raw Mana Manipulation makes it a tool that may achieve effects normal spellcasting cannot. Compared with other complimentary courses, Raw Mana Manipulation requires much more study to master all its aspects. Those studying it must gain three levels during the period of study to master it. Prerequisites: Only Mages #and Elves (Foresters cannot learn this skill)# may learn Raw Mana Manipulation. As this skill requires a greater degree of intuition and agility than normal spellcasting, a student must have at least a 10 in wisdom and dexterity to learn this skill. %Casting time and components: It takes 1d4 segments to produce any effects through Raw Mana Manipulation. Verbal and somatic components are required to use this skill (no materials required).% Use of the skill always counts as the user's action for that round. All skill rolls are based upon intelligence. Raw Mana Manipulation has three uses. Cantrips: With a successful skill roll (based on intelligence), the user can produce effects similar to those of the Cantrip spell (detailed in AD&D PHB). Unlike the Cantrip spell, effects are limited to those that serve dramatic purposes, those that impress, startle, or serve as benign warnings. Creating a small puff of wind to flicker a candle upon entering a room or making a normally quiet floor squeak as someone crosses it are considered dramatic effects. Increasing the duration food keeps from spoiling or forcing a merchant to fumble a wine sample into his most valued customer's face are not purely dramatic effects; they have very obvious effects beyond drama. As always, the DM has final say about what is allowed under the above rules. Mana Attacks: With a successful skill roll, the user may draw together a large well of mana and slightly alter its form into physically harmful electricity. This attack mode is not as efficient as a lightning bolt spell regarding mana consumption, so its effects are notably weaker. The resulting energy discharge has a range of 25 feet and only affects one target who may save versus magic for half damage. Damage done equals one point of damage per wielder level (maximum 20 points damage). #Elves count each attack rank attained past C as two more levels when figuring out damage.# Magic Parrying: This skill will not work against innate magical abilities, innate spell abilities (such as those dragons wield), circle spells of the Glantrian secret crafts, or Raw Mana Manipulation. Magic Parrying involves drawing together a concentrated well of raw mana. The user then channels it at a single enemy spell-in-casting to disrupt its delicate structure. On a successful skill roll, the parry successfully disrupts one uncompleted enemy spell within 100 feet enough to automatically halve damage on damage spells (a saving throw v. magic may be made to further reduce damage to 1/4). Non-damage spells successfully parried give the parried spell's target a +4 bonus to save v. magic. If the user makes the skill roll by 8, the target spell is completely negated regardless of whether it is damage or non-damage. A skill roll of 1 always achieves this effect. %If the user cannot complete a magical parry before or at the opposing spell's completion, the spell is unaffectted and the user still loses his/her action for that round.% #If an opponent begins casting a spell, any PC or NPC with this skill may attempt a Magic Parry if he/she has yet to act in the round regardless of initiative before the spell goes off.# Drawback: Grabbing mana and crudely working it through pure will is much more taxing upon endurance than casting a thoroughly prepared and efficient spell. Therefore, whenever a character attempts a Magic Parry or a Mana Attack (Cantrips are excluded here), the character loses two points of constitution regardless of success. Penalties listed below mount as the constitution of the skill user drops (NOTE: penalties are not cumulative. They show what penalties are suffered upon reaching the specified level of constitution). The user suffers penalties when his/her constitution drops to 3/4, 1/2, and 1/4 his/her original constitution score with fractions rounded up. So for example, a user with an original constitution of 15 would suffer penalties at 12 con., 8 con., and 4 con. 3/4 original con - The user begins to feel fatigued, but not too seriously. -1hit/dam, +1AC, +1 initiative 1/2 original con - The user feels tired and lightheaded. -2hit/dam, +2AC, +2 init., 1/2 movement. 1/4 original con - The user is at his/her physical limits and ready to collapse. -3hit/dam, +3AC, +3 init., 1/4 movement. At con 2 or 1 - The user immediately falls unconscious. Should his/her con somehow fall to 0 or lower, the user instantly dies. A heal spell (which won't restore con and hit points at the same time) or a wish will fully restore all lost constitution to its original level. Otherwise constitution will regenerate at 1 point per day. Those with a constitution of 16, 17, or 18 regenerate 2 points per day. ____________________ Final note on the above drawback: the penalties for the depletion of constitution are not too serious in a magical duel (IMO good), but are extremely crippling in most other settings. Please feel free to comment, praise, ridicule, whatever, the above since it likely requires work. AC _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 02:08:27 EDT From: CRlPTONITE@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Day of Dread (was Almanac/Glantri) >>If you look at the calendars given in >>some GAZ, you'll see that on 28 Kaldmont there's a 3% chance that all magic fails all over Mystara. >Euh!? Please could you tell me from wich does this one comes from? You can find this in the Glantri Gaz (#3). - --- -- --Criptonite *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 23:21:05 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Apologies Hey everyone. This is slightly off-topic, but I feel that it does need to be said. I never realized what kind of communications barriers exist in people who speak the same language until I got on the lists. I have come to the realization that different connotations and word choice is read differently by each person, so I wish to extend my sincerest apologies if any of my posts have offended anyone on the board. I offer my opinions and statements as a means to promote objective discussion- not for the sake of argument or insults. With that in mind, I'd like to ask everyone who reads my posts to ask for clarification if I seem to be insulting you because that is definitely not the intent. Later. Jesse. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 09:40:37 +0200 From: "Tomás Sánchez" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Cure for Amputations? Jamuga Khan wrote : >Regenerate ? Do you mean this level 7 spell against energy losses ? Restore is used to "restore" one full level of energy to any victim who has lost a level because of energy drain. You have pointed towards the wrong spell. >I don't think that this would work. I'd promote "Cureall" and I will give you a prove for it. Patriarch Sherlane can cast spells up to level 6, and in the module B12-Queen's Harvest appears a Kerin who has lost his right arm in his last adventure. When the adventurers will meet him the next time, Baron Sherlane has arrived and Kerin has his arm back. >You see, it must be "Cureall". Not neccesarily. It could well have been regenerated by Sherlane's Magist. Also, if there is a ring called regeneration ring which allows the wearer to regenerate 1 hp / turn or regrowing lost limbs at a slower rate. A finger in 24 hours and a whole limb after a week. Obviously if such a ring can be created there should exist one appropiate regenerating spell for it even if it has not been ever listed before( OD&D ). Tomás Sánchez Jr deckard@encomix.es ICQ# 9190040 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 09:40:48 +0200 From: "Tomás Sánchez" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Day of Dread (was Almanac/Glantri) Fabrizio wrote : >After WotI DoD is a regular feature of the Mystaran year, but something similar existed also before WotI. If you look at the calendars given in some GAZ, you'll see that on 28 Kaldmont there's a 3% chance that all magic fails all over Mystara. >This means that a magic-failure has probably already happened at least once in the previous 100 years and more than once since AC 0. So, IMO, there should me some written evidence about past DoD and some of the older mages may have experienced it at least once in the past. Instead, IIRC, such things are never mentioned and the DoD looks as a complete new and unknown feature to Mystaran sages and mages. Isn't it strange? Right. The probable event associated to the 28th Kaldmont is a probable stellar cataclysm. Which i think could be caused by celestial bodies colliding. If so we can guess the involved bodies should cross each other once each year. The text reads as follows : (x) Stellar Cataclysm - unusual celestial activities cause the sky to change color for one day, or glow eerily for one night, causing fear and disorder among the population ( 3% chance ). All magic is totally ineffective during that day. After carefully reading the above paragraph it seems as if the percentage given was referred to the probable disorders among the populace. Even if it was as you said it should happen at most once. Don't you think so ? I believe this event could be well introduced during the last christmas of 1000 AC. Doesn't it sounds familiar ? Tomás Sánchez Jr deckard@encomix.es ICQ# 9190040 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 11:00:54 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Jaggars Evilness ><< I think what Kaviyd is trying to say is that it opens for the possibility >of working with Entropy. Which would be out of the question for a Lawful OD&D character.>> >Not really. A character can be lawfull to entropy. However you would be correct with the possibility of Jaggar turning to Entropy for aid. But that would be a very rare occurance. It would have to be under severly extreme circumstances, and even then, it would depend on the situation at hand. >>Seems to me that the AD&D products removed several interesting features from Mystara. No clerics in Glantri (although that was in WotI), Morphail loosing it etc. Uh? Seems that a major slating of G:KoM was that people thought it was just the same as the old Gaz. Now here are some differences, and you'd rather not have them! *sigh* you just cant please some people... :) Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 11:13:45 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Complimentary Course: Raw Mana Manipulation (was Magical Parrying) - - >Please feel free to comment, praise, ridicule, whatever, the above since it likely requires work. >AC Far more balanced than I thought it would be! (its basically a supply of little magic missiles to disrupt enemy mages with) I dont know how it would be introduced tho - i like the 8th Glantrian circle idea, but I'm not sure... Maybe there is a Duellists College/Guild of Duellists or something like that where this skill is taught, as I think its the sort of thing that all mages with circles should have access to (many duels are fought between mages with circles, when disuputing their rank within that circle)... Cheerz ROB (BTW - the concept sounds very much like wild magic to me. Specifically some spells like Spell Shape and Reckless Dweomer. Maybe if a wizard bungles his roll when attempting a mana manipulation he causes a wild surge?) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #418 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 14:27:18 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #419 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 678e82b899b1d6d74593a3864e126fe6 mystara-digest Sunday, June 14 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 419 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One Re: [MYSTARA] - Old One = Dark Powers (Gareth6) Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One Mystara Stuff (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Any Old Iron? (and Ravenloft)) Re: [MYSTARA] - Adri Varma Plateau - an answer!!!! Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal names (was: Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One) Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal names (was: Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One) Re: [MYSTARA] - Klantyrish Warrior Poets Re: [MYSTARA] - Why the Council of Alphatia is reasonable RE: [MYSTARA] - Some new kits for Mystara in D&D format [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves Re: [MYSTARA] - Adri Varma Plateau - an answer!!!! Re: [MYSTARA] - Old One = Dark Powers (Gareth6) Re: [MYSTARA] - Why the Council of Alphatia is reasonable Re: [MYSTARA] - Old One = Dark Powers (Gareth6) Re: [MYSTARA] - Old One = Dark Powers (Gareth6) [MYSTARA] - Map inconsistencies Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 06:20:53 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One In a message dated 98-06-13 18:18:40 EDT, galwylin@airnet.net writes: << Alex295@aol.com wrote: >If you notice most DarkLords were drawn in after some evil act based on a rash >decision. Strahd (Morphail) acted on lust aided by lack of sleep. Azalin (Brannart) made his pact as his hunters bore down on him. Soth acted in a fit >of rage at himself for his own dishonor. Mordenheim was interred due to his stubborness. Meredoth (Mystaran dude) was drawn in for his singlemindedness for research after making undead out of his vassels. Other DLs are DLs due to >their being the nastiest beings within a realm. Rad was captured by destroying Alphatia... oh, wait. We're not sure where he is yet, are we? ;> >> My madness spreads.....ah someone else read into that line. It would be kind of cool to have the Old Ones ferry Rad to RL to show him what can happen to those that act so rashly on mere impulse and emotion without fully contemplating the possible repercussions. And since time is a bit different in RL, Rad could have been imprisioned there for eons but returned to Mystara a year or two after the War. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 06:38:59 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old One = Dark Powers (Gareth6) In a message dated 98-06-13 22:16:36 EDT, Inconu@aol.com writes: << Concerning the Old Ones are Dark Powers: How about the quest for becoming an old one for the Immortals? Could it possibly be a huge plot designed by the old ones to recruit the (best of the best) of Immortals to add to thier power? Or perhaps the Old Ones were once known of and was a warning to the Immortals..... but through millenia the story got distorted and now some Immortals actually aspire to become one. Perhaps they want the power, and thier greed leads them to imprisonment with the rest of the Dark Powers.>> Interesting idea....you could actually say that an Immortal capable of reaching Old One status is above his fellow Immortals in both power as well as morality. The power level is unfathomable. The morale issues are more based on a disassociation with mortals. IIRC old Immortals forget about mortal aspects. So it is reasonable that their veiws regarding mortals are not really an issue of concern. This perspective on mortals would only lessen as an Immmortal gain Old One status. Plus you have to rationalize that mortals are really below them. And even their former Immortal brethren are beneath them. So perhaps for the good of mortals and Immortals, the Old Ones seclude themselves from them in a self imposed prison. This prison being RL where they still tinker with mortals a bit but on a limited and isolated scale. Hmm...perhaps part of becoming an Old One deals with a need to seperate from mortals and Immortals. For not only the good of the multiverse but also the good of themselves. <> I like this idea. A portion of the Old One collective is sent to Mystara to keep an eye on things. But why is Gareth considered an Initiate? IIRC he is just described as a new Immortal. And since the "returned from the Void" line is added it is reasonable that Gareth could be of any level. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 15:15:12 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One At 19.34 12/06/98 CEST, Herve Musseau wrote: >d. Gareth is an Old One that abandoned his status Just like Immortals can become Old Ones by dropping their status, starting back from the bottom, and then rising again, so can the Old Ones. An Old One who has mastered Hierarch Old One status may decide to give it up, and start again as a mere Initiate in the Multiverse, and when (if) he becomes an Hierarch Old One, he becomes what comes next [some people on the list have said it becomes an Very Old One, some said it's a circle an he becomes a simple mortal]. Since he claims that he returned from the Vortex (which is literally true), he must have retained some of his memory (contrary to an Immortal becoming a mortal). Idea d/1. Gareth is an Old One that willingly gave up his status as Hierarch Old One, restarted as simple mortal, and gained Immortality during WotI. This means he should be a relly old guy. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 15:02:05 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Mystara Stuff (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Any Old Iron? (and Ravenloft)) At 23.30 12/06/98 +0100, Rob wrote: >I know this stuff does get posted, but post more! I know you've all got material out there... Like when Jenni asked for NPCs, and loads got posted - that was cool! Keep it up! I've a few more NPCs in my hard disk, just give me the time to translate them in English. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 09:44:55 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Adri Varma Plateau - an answer!!!! << Well folks, there you have it, straight from the archives! :-) Not only do we have a plausible explanation as to why there are cacti on an admittedly northern plateau, we also have a new monster. Anyone up for doing the stats on the Northern Saguaro? Also, Bruce mentioned nomadic peoples as being a threat to Glantri. What sort of nomads would these be? Could these be the sand folk, or something else? >> Thank you, Geoff. I believe that Fabrizio thought of the same. Is it possible that Bruce introduced them in a letter in the Voyager of the Princess Ark series? I have still this nagging feeling that I've read it once myself. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 09:44:55 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal names (was: Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One) << >Vanya sounds like a Russian male name. And it is. A friendly form of Ivan, in fact. >> Sure, but isn't is spelled "Wanja"? Of course translating Russian words or names into Latin letters is matter of sheer luck sometimes. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 09:44:51 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal names (was: Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One) << I've never liked Petra for that reason. Peter, the rock/cliff. It is a Hebrew name IIRC. Petra Oleum? hmm..reminds me of an Asterix story.. >> So Asterix is known in Norway too? Good to hear, one point up for Norway. You surely know that "Petra Oleum" changed to "Petroleum". As a Norwegian you should be used with that. << I know that there are norwegian girls called Vanya or Vanja. I doubt that it is of nordic origin though. BTW, Thor, Thorfinn, Thorbjorn, Tore etc are very common names aroun here. This is because of old traditinons of naming people after gods in the days of the vikings. I've heard of a guy called Odin aswell, but that is less common. >> That is too funny, when we remember what Vanya's clerics did to the Northmen in Mystara. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 09:44:56 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Klantyrish Warrior Poets << Skalds are appropriate, but then skalds use mage spells, which i dont consider appropriate at all. I thought perhaps give them priest spells instead? A good solution... >> Skalds only have mage spells when you give them such spells. And then: Has it always to be magic? Why not a skald who sings, plays and composes songs, who interacts with other, uh, intelligent beings in his function as skald, but no more? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 09:44:54 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why the Council of Alphatia is reasonable << Not really sure as to your intended response. So if I have misinterpreted it, my appologies. If so just say that the response is just an addendum to my earlier post. Yes...but was not the PA created or refurbished by Haldemar who basically bankrupted the family. To aid this strain, he accepted an Imperial commision. Thus the PA is an Imperial Windrider. True it has some priviledges that other skyships do not have. But the Princess Ark is not your typical skyship. >> No, I wasn't very clear. O.k., another try: Despite being equipped by Haldemar instead of the Imperial Navy, the PA is a AIN ship and organized according to AIN rules and standards. My point was, when a flying ship belongs to the NAVY, this organization possesses ALL Alphatian military ships, regardless whether they sail the oceans of water or air. This does not include para-military units like Coast Guard ships, for instance the ships of the Alphatian Coast Guard Agency. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 15:44:40 +0200 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?=" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Some new kits for Mystara in D&D format Thanks Galwylin for your interest and remarks! >>Bolt... Many high level actors cast anti-magic shell and act their deaths >>when hit by a fireball which reduces the stage props to ashes); so are conjuration spells (Wall of..., Colour, Bleach), to produce quick (and even >>enchanted) props. >I like this but I do wonder if they wouldn't save some expense by just using illusions. I would like to point that this use of spells is precisely what defines the Aphatian Stage Mage kit. Otherwise, any wizard who casts illusions on stage would qualify. Alphatians want to play BIG; their performances are Hollywood super-productions. If they resorted continuously to Phantasmal Force, they would lose "thrill" amongst the public, being most of it composed of competent magic-users who would make their saving throw and see through the Phantasmal Force. If you can truly burn a prop castle 10.000 gp worth, why would you just pretend to do it? (Remember Waterworld or Titanic?) Andras de Skie *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 18:21:44 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves >Skalds only have mage spells when you give them such spells. And then: Has it always to be magic? Why not a skald who sings, plays and composes songs, who interacts with other, uh, intelligent beings in his function as skald, but no more? >Jamuga Khan Hey Khan... check out my warrior poet! No spellcasting there... As to "why no magic" it comes down to balance. Thieves are crap - i think everyone agrees that. Take away bards spells, and they would be even worse... (unless u give them something else instead). Lets face it, to be a bard u just have to be a 0 level human who can pluck a harp well. The bard CLASS is above and beyond this - a jack of all trades, master of none (at least the True Bard is). Its an adventuring class, intended to be the equal of fighters, mages, and priests (ill forget thieves...). A skald who just plays music may make for a good NPC, but it wont really be a good PC character class, when the PC is supposed to be a Hero, defeating nightshades, Entropic schemings, etc. etc. I have to say that I have only known one PC bard (two, if u count a bard I played once) - players are put off it because it isnt a particularly strong class. One player who plays Vampire and is very much into "soul" playing even agrees with me here. "A character who has depth and personality and is great to role play is good. But in any game (like D+D) where combat features in it heavily, what helps more is being HARD." BTW - who plays thieves out there? I'd like to see how u do - because I want to play a thief, but given past experience there is little chance a thief would be any use whatsoever... tips? Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 10:48:26 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves Rob said: >Lets face it, to be a bard u just have to be a 0 level human who can pluck a harp well. The bard CLASS is above and beyond this - a jack of all trades, master of none (at least the True Bard is). Its an adventuring class, intended to be the equal of fighters, mages, and priests (ill forget thieves...). Some good points. Have you checked out the bard class that DM and I created for D&D? I know that you use AD&D, but I'm sure there are some elements there that you might like to consider for your own use :-) I also came up with a Bounty Hunter character class - maybe I'll share it later on... Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 11:08:48 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Adri Varma Plateau - an answer!!!! The Illustrious Jamuga Khan said: >Thank you, Geoff. I believe that Fabrizio thought of the same. >Is it possible that Bruce introduced them in a letter in the Voyager of the Princess Ark series? I have still this nagging feeling that I've read it once myself. This is possible. I just rifled through my CoM boxed set, and I couldn't find any reference to it in the diary section. Hmm, the Explorer's Manual says that the Devaki River, which runs south from the Adri Varma Plateau, adds its "foul" waters to Lake Hast in Sind. It also says, in the description of the kingdom of Peshmir (in northern Sind) that, although the waters from the Plateau are black and foul, the waters of Lake Hast are always clear and deep, with great fish swimming in its depths. I wonder why this might be. Any ideas out there as to why the waters from the Plateau are so foul?> Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 11:33:57 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old One = Dark Powers (Gareth6) >This perspective on mortals would only lessen as an Immmortal gain Old One status. Plus you have to rationalize that mortals are really below them. And even their former Immortal brethren are beneath them. Another thought on this...... If the Old Ones were freed somehow from there prison, what would thier goal be? Would they be out to punish the Immortals and mortals alike? Picture another war of this calliber. The few Immortals Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 14:27:18 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #419 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 678e82b899b1d6d74593a3864e126fe6 that have reached old one status vs. all the Immortals/mortals on Mystara. Perhaps a couple of Immortals have an idea to this hypothisized "Ammagedan" and would activly seek out Immortals that may be on the wrong path. I'm not purposing a "Wrath of the Old Ones" or anything. Just as a buffer of fear for the Immortals. Khoronus has done more research than anyone concerning the old ones, and IIRC he has a 100 Int. and Wis. score, or some very large amount close to that. So, he must know more than the rest of the Immortals do...i would assume. >So perhaps for the good of mortals and Immortals, the Old Ones seclude themselves from them in a self imposed prison. This prison being RL where they >still tinker with mortals a bit but on a limited and isolated scale. HHmm...perhaps part of becoming an Old One deals with a need to seperate from >mortals and Immortals. For not only the good of the multiverse but also the good of themselves. I like this idea too. In this scenario, the Old Ones have so much power and can influence literally anything they want to.....without regard to the Immortals Power Point systems. They come to a higher understanding of the multiverse and attempt to stay clear from Immortal/mortal affairs, unless they need to intervene. >A portion of the Old One collective is sent to Mystara to keep an eye on things. But why is Gareth considered an Initiate? IIRC he is just described as a new Immortal. And since the "returned from the Void" line >is added it is reasonable that Gareth could be of any level. You're correct here. I'm not sure why I preposed Gareth as existing as an Initiate. He could be as any level Immortal. What level would you think him to be? - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 12:08:44 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why the Council of Alphatia is reasonable In a message dated 98-06-14 09:59:38 EDT, JamugaKhan@aol.com writes: >Not really sure as to your intended response. So if I have misinterpreted it, >my appologies. If so just say that the response is just an addendum to my earlier post. >Yes...but was not the PA created or refurbished by Haldemar who basically bankrupted the family. To aid this strain, he accepted an Imperial commision. >Thus the PA is an Imperial Windrider. True it has some priviledges that other >skyships do not have. But the Princess Ark is not your typical skyship. >> Alex <> Jamuga Khan Okay that is much clearer. I see the reasoning behind that. But given the differences of type, skyship and sailing vessel, I would at least have them seperated into different branches of the AIN. A third branch could be the submersibles of Aquas. The AIN acts as a governing body, while the different vessel types are divided accordingly to type and formed into fleets. The paramilitary aspects are interesting cause I have some sort of coastal patrols for my Randel GAZ. In there I have what I call the Riverine Fleet which is composed of river galleys that patrol the Randel River and the coastal waters at the mouth of the River. The Gaz was finished but I was inspired to make a few additions. Do not blame me, blame Bruce Heard. It was after reading through Glantri Gaz that I was inspired to add naratives to give the Randel Gaz a more Gazetteer feel. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 12:21:35 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old One = Dark Powers (Gareth6) In a message dated 98-06-14 11:49:25 EDT, Inconu@aol.com writes: << > This perspective on mortals would only lessen as an Immmortal gain OOld One status. Plus you have to rationalize that mortals are really below them. And even their former Immortal brethren are beneath them. Another thought on this...... If the Old Ones were freed somehow from there prison, what would thier goal be? Would they be out to punish the Immortals and mortals alike? Picture another war of this calliber. The few Immortals that have reached old one status vs. all the Immortals/mortals on Mystara. Perhaps a couple of Immortals have an idea to this hypothisized "Ammagedan" and would activly seek out Immortals that may be on the wrong path. I'm not purposing a "Wrath of the Old Ones" or anything. Just as a buffer of fear for the Immortals. Khoronus has done more research than anyone concerning the old ones, and IIRC he has a 100 Int. and Wis. score, or some very large amount close to that. So, he must know more than the rest of the Immortals do...i would assume.>> Perhaps singularly they have no goal. They are content to wallow about in an environment they themselves created. I am sure some Old Ones would get bored and break away to involve themselves with mortals. But in breaking away, perhaps they lose some of that omnipotent power. That power boost could be what keeps them imprisoned. You stay an Old One you are truly omnipotent. You leave you are just slightly above an Immortal and subject to their needs (followers, emotions, ambitions, rules, and a frear of death). >So perhaps for the good of mortals and Immortals, the Old Ones seclude themselves from them in a self imposed prison. This prison being RL where they >still tinker with mortals a bit but on a limited and isolated scale. HHmm...perhaps part of becoming an Old One deals with a need to seperate from >mortals and Immortals. For not only the good of the multiverse but also the good of themselves. I like this idea too. In this scenario, the Old Ones have so much power and can influence literally anything they want to.....without regard to the Immortals Power Point systems. They come to a higher understanding of the multiverse and attempt to stay clear from Immortal/mortal affairs, unless they need to intervene.>> Thanks >A portion of the Old One collective is sent to Mystara to keep an eye on things. But why is Gareth considered an Initiate? IIRC he is just described as a new Immortal. And since the "returned from the Void" line >is added it is reasonable that Gareth could be of any level. You're correct here. I'm not sure why I preposed Gareth as existing as an Initiate. He could be as any level Immortal. What level would you think him to be? >> Offhand, I'd say Gareth could have the power of a heirarch. I base this on an Immortal and when he or she takes a mortal guise. When in Mortal Identity the Immortal usually takes the form of a 36th level cleric. Though you could handicap Gareth some by saying that the transference to Immortal guise costs him a certain degree of power. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 13:24:30 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old One = Dark Powers (Gareth6) In a message dated 6/14/98 12:35:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Alex295@aol.com writes: >Perhaps singularly they have no goal. They are content to wallow about in an environment they themselves created. I am sure some Old Ones would get bored and break away to involve themselves with mortals. But in breaking away, perhaps they lose some of that omnipotent power. That power boost could be what keeps them imprisoned. You stay an Old One you are truly omnipotent. You >leave you are just slightly above an Immortal and subject to their needs (followers, emotions, ambitions, rules, and a fear of death). Would this be a new race? I don't believe these individuals would be still known as Old Ones, as they would be far more weak in comparison to their counterparts. Would they be supervisors over the multiverse, Mystara, the Five Shires, or a mortal? >Offhand, I'd say Gareth could have the power of a heirarch. I base this on an >Immortal and when he or she takes a mortal guise. When in Mortal Identity the >Immortal usually takes the form of a 36th level cleric. Though you could handicap Gareth some by saying that the transference to Immortal guise costs him a certain degree of power. To add to this.....Would the Old One be from a certain sphere of influence? I don't think they should be. If Gareth was from the sphere of thought and was more powerful and influential than the current reigning hiearch, he would be the new hiearch by default regardless, of if the Immortal was level 36. Perhaps they have no sphere of Influence, and aren't regarded as Immortals, but instead just as an Old One without any more connection to their old state of being. Any ideas? Also, in regard to those whom don't believe it's a good idea to define the Old Ones: I believe it is a good idea to try and flesh the Old Ones out the best we can, so as DMs, we can properly integrate them to our campaigns. Just as it would be foolish to put a creature, that the DM knows not much about, into a campaign. To utilize anything properly into a campaign the DM should know all of the information that there is to know about the subject. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 13:25:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: [MYSTARA] - Map inconsistencies I know it doesn't pay to try to work out every inconsistency in Mystara but I just found one heck of a problem in the Blackmoor maps, in which nothing seems to match up. Any idea on how to 'fix' these problems is appreciated. 1)DA1 has Thonia south of Blackmoor and the Skandharians northeast. The HW boxed set map pre-cataclysmic has Thonia north of Blackmoor, no land mass anywhere NE of Blackmoor till you hit Zyxl, rather far away. So..do we follow Dave Arneson's scheme for the world or the one map that tries to match pre-Blackmoor and post-Blackmoor? 2)The HW DM's book repeatedly talks about Blackmoor/Beastman conflict and also mentions an Oltec civilization far south of Blackmoor. On the map, the Beastman and Oltecs are both far to the west, the Beastman presumably out of contact range. 3)The Jennites are on Skothar, descendants of the Oltecs who arrived in 3000 BC. Now, a mass move of the Oltecs there during the cataclysm of Blackmoor doesn't strike me as too sensible - yes, everyone was moving in this time period, but why the heck would people head to the center of the disaster when their own culture is being wiped out? And how did a dying civilization make that long trek across the ocean? (BTW, this is the problem that started me on the whole map bit - trying to work out Jennite history right now) A white minority has spent centuries conning us into thinking a white skin makes people superior, even though the only thing it really does is make them more affected by ultraviolet rays and wrinkles - Gloria Steinem *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 11:49:53 -0600 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves Rob meandered fecklessly... >As to "why no magic" it comes down to balance. Thieves are crap - i think >everyone agrees that. Nope. >BTW - who plays thieves out there? I'd like to see how u do - because I >want to play a thief, but given past experience there is little chance a thief would be any use whatsoever... tips? I love thieves. Definitely one of my favorite classes in the game. (AD&D. OD&D thieves leave a lot to be desired). Considering what I think of most of the classes, I'd better like them or I wouldn't have much else to play! As for tips... play with a good GM. If a campaign is a never- ending string of combat encounters, then a thief is going to be useless. But if the GM is good, and tries to present a large variety of encounter and plot possibilities, the thief is a wonderful class to play. It also helps if the GM scraps the silly idea of handing out XP's for monsters, as this allows the thief to do his thing without thinking "Gosh, better run in and kill a few beasties so I can go up a level." It is much harder to give tips to any one person on how to play a thief, since it can be very GM dependent, more so than most classes. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com ICQ #4253672 "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 22:27:09 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves >>BTW - who plays thieves out there? I'd like to see how u do - bbecause I >>want to play a thief, but given past experience there is little chance a thief would be any use whatsoever... tips? >I love thieves. Definitely one of my favorite classes in the game. (AD&D. OD&D thieves leave a lot to be desired). Considering what I think of most of the classes, I'd better like them or I wouldn't have much else to play! I love thieves too. A pity they are naff... >As for tips... play with a good GM. If a campaign is a never- ending string of combat encounters, then a thief is going to be useless. But if the GM is good, and tries to present a large variety of encounter and plot possibilities, the thief is a wonderful class to play. It also helps if the GM scraps the silly idea of handing out XP's for monsters, as this allows the thief to do his thing without thinking "Gosh, better run in and kill a few beasties so I can go up a level." >It is much harder to give tips to any one person on how to play a thief, since it can be very GM dependent, more so than most classes. The problem isnt lack of combat skill. None of the characters I play are really killing machines (I seem to end up playing pacifistic scholarly mages most of the time). Its that the thief class abilities "just dont cut it". Its magic that brings the thief class low. And their is so much magic about! (I'm an advocate of low magic campaigns, hence the arguments i put up against their being loads of Alphatian wizards...). A simple continual light spell stops thieves from sneaking around within its area of effect. And EVERYONE has access to continual light, as its a low level mage and priest spell which is permanent! (I guess there is no such thing as a "lantern" in any D+D world...) Climb walls is pretty naff when compared with fly, polymorph self, levitate, and when walls are covered with grease. Detect invisible spots thieves (when playing Planescape, dont even bother being a thief - just about everything gets detect invisible permanently). Open locks doesnt open wizard locks (and even nonmagical locks can have huge penalties to an open locks roll). Finding traps is OK - but it takes a g e s to check for traps - a trap in the middle of a corridor isnt going to be noticed, unless the thief is scouring the corridor with a fine tooth comb (and taking 3 hours to search 50 yards of corridor...). Even a simple pit trap with poisoned spikes will kill a thief, because the thief will just blunder into it, because it takes so long to find traps... And of course, if the trap is magical (the infamous Glyph of Warding, which priests might as well cast on EVERYTHING, because they can) then this is halved. Even with 95% F/RT, a couple of Glyphs will prevent thieves from breaking and entering... Added to all this grief, the DMs around here all say that undead sense life force rather than "seeing" in the conventional sense (so thieves cant sneak past them) - as do golems and a few other beasties... Pick pockets and detect noise are both good skills. But hardly worthy of a class which should be equal in power to all other classes. Sure, you can play a good sneaky roleplaying type thief, but you might as well just play a fighter (or a 0 level human!) because those thief skills sure arent going to help you... What do u use thieves for? Presumably scouting, breaking and entering, and stealing (I think every adventure will have a requirement for one or more of the above). But if you want to do these things, dont look to the thief to do it... I am reminded of a recent episode in a Spelljammer campaign. The party thief (actually a fighter/thief, because a straight thief would just be useless... :) sneaked aboard a Spelljammer which was suspected of smuggling illegal goods into the Rock of Bral (you cant get much more thiefy than that...). I remember looking over at a fellow player and saying "I wonder how long it will be before he gets caught and we have to go in and rescue him?". Turned out to be about 15 minutes. I think it was the brightly lit corridors that did it, a failed disguise roll (not surprising, as one had to made whenever anyone on board spotted the thief) and the mind flayer that was on board... Nowadays in the campaigns around here the thief class is just a joke. Scouting became described as "sending the thief in to get eaten alive while the rest of the party sneaks up and gets the drop on the bad guys". I'm running an EXTREMELY low magic Karameikos campaign where there is a party thief (and much benefit of the doubt on my part) where the thief is I think holding his own quite happily. But thats only after a conscious effort by me to give the poor thief a break... I guess I should move to the USA to play a thief... Don't you have any of these problems as well? Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #419 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 18:07:55 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #420 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: abba01d6f5cc3963a4f241596cfd43d2 mystara-digest Sunday, June 14 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 420 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Wild Thoughts on Weather [MYSTARA] - Named after gods Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves [MYSTARA] - Anti-D&D controversy, epilogue [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar's invasion Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Day of Dread (was Almanac/Glantri) Re: [MYSTARA] - Cure for Amputations? Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal names (was: Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One) Re: [MYSTARA] - Day of Dread (was Almanac/Glantri) Re: [MYSTARA] - Some new kits for Mystara in D&D format Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal names (was: Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One) Re: [MYSTARA] - Adri Varma Plateau - an answer!!!! Re: [MYSTARA] - Cure for Amputations? Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One Re: [MYSTARA] - Adri Varma Plateau - an answer!!!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 15:17:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Savoie Subject: [MYSTARA] - Wild Thoughts on Weather >Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 22:59:56 EDT >From: Kaviyd@aol.com >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Sylvan Realm >In a message dated 98-06-09 07:36:56 EDT, shawn@leme.anu.edu.au writes: >>I'll put my geographic hat on now and suggest that countries on the eastern edges of continents with mountain ranges to their right should be as dry as all hell. In an upcoming post about G+S I am suggesting such a >The western United States actually does serve as a counterexample -- while southern California is dry, the same cannot be said of northern California, Oregon, Washington, and the Canadian province of British Columbia -- the last of which might well serve as a geographical model for the Sylvan Realm, as I seem to recall reading about that region having an extensive logging industry. And yes, the Rocky Mountains definitely do extend that far north. Yes, that is true; OTHER geographical factors than mountain-ranges should be considered. The change of latitude influences trade-winds and ocean-currents (which are cyclical systems on a spherical globe, owing to the Coriolis force) and these change with latitude and thus "hit" the land in different ways. British Columbia is wet, although the mountains visible from Vancouver are the Gold Coast Mountains spur -- NOT the Rockies. West of the mountains the terrain suddenly becomes dry plains, although not desert. El Nin~o appears to have moderated the weather in Canada's Elephant Country (turn a Southern Ontario map clockwise 90 degrees, and you will see a rampant elephant, trunk raised at Windsor [opposite Detroit] down to forelegs at Niagara Falls and Toronto) Milder winters, and so far, cooler summers. If you want to play the sociopolitical effects of a fluke weather-system, it could have far-reaching effects in your game-world. In the year 900-1000, global weather was relatively warm so the Vikings settled Greenland and even explored the northeast coast of North America. But things got much colder by 1350-1400, and the Greenland settlements died off or were abandoned, clearly shown by church records of marriages and christenings. Maybe that had an effect on livability and pasturage conditions among the Mongols too, driving them out and forward to conquer new territory (Jamuga Khan the Ethengar fan take note!) And don't forget that the Hollow World is part of the Known World's weather-system, like it or not, providing a cold-weather zone that can shift cold air in the lightless zone south along the Outer World whenever a Hollow World weather-pattern forces air north. One benefit: a deficiency in the ozone-layer over the polar caps hurts no one...not even penguins. But if we asked a meteorologist to computer-model such a hollow-world effect, why, he would have us put away! :-) I think we in the real world might even be in for a rough time, if we have cultivated most of North America under ideal weather conditions but things change. Harvests, which formerly varied from bumper-crop to bad and whose variations were managed by stockpiling, might now vary from just enough to very bad. There will be urges to expand political zones trying to "follow" the climactic zones of agricultural optimums. I remember when imported Florida orange-crops were reliable and produced perfect orange specimens with no green spots. Small signs in the grocery stores started to make excuses for the pitiful specimens we saw starting in the late 70's I think, excuses about unseasonable weather and even frost! Then some years later small signs came up explaining that green spots were not a sign of unripeness or lack of quality. We got used to accepting what was automatically rejected before by the cultivators themselves. Now this is supplemented by oranges from California and even South Africa. Will our grandchildren be eating "Florida oranges" that are half-green and stunted and laugh at our stories of what an orange USED to look like? There will be urges to expand political zones trying to "follow" the climactic zones of agricultural optimums. Now, in Mystara they don't HAVE the advantages of routine world commerce and easy, rapid continental transportation. What could climactic changes do to food prices, the loss of a region's agricultural product, etc.? The natural reaction would be to invade and plunder a neighbor rather than to try to stabilize prices and availability on a global market. The spherical geometric effects I am hinting at cause that bands around latitude 30 degrees in the world are more prone to dryness and desertification, not north of that nor in the tropics. So, yes, no one should assume a north-south mountain-range is going to cause deserts all along its leeward edge. What is also interesting to consider is what a climactic change is going to do to a stabilized, medieval-type society where the course of the seasons and the harvest is thought to be predictable and never-changing from parent to offspring. - ------- And then, added comment on the West Coast mountain situation by Rob: - ------- >Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 11:22:03 +0100 >From: "Rob" >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: ...[quotes Kaviyd above, then says]... >It depends on the prevailing winds and any sea currents that might be around. Mystaras continents look a bit like the ancient supercontinent Pangaea (this was actually intended, from the old boxes). So its just one huge landmass, effectively. The KW is sheltered, right in the middle. But the Sylvan Realm is right out on the edge of the landmass. >Any meteorologists in here? No, but you know how the weather reports now take satellite-photo information and reprojects it with computer virtual-reality to move around a map and show cloud-patterns as you move across the country in an airplane perspective? Wouldn't that be cool for Mystara if a computer program was made in SVGA graphics to allow you to move around and even loop around into the Hollow World, weather or no weather? I'd buy a Flight Simulator expansion for that in a minute! Something like that view is done in the FINAL FANTASY series of home video-games, although FINAL FANTASY III (Super Nintendo) only gave you a choice of north-south-east-west movement. - ---Pierre Savoie (ab966@torfree.net) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 15:17:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Savoie Subject: [MYSTARA] - Named after gods >Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 16:13:29 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal names (was: Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One) >I know that there are norwegian girls called Vanya or Vanja. I doubt that it is of nordic origin though. BTW, Thor, Thorfinn, Thorbjorn, Tore etc are very common names aroun here. This is because of old traditinons of naming people after gods in the days of the vikings. I've heard of a guy called Odin as well, but that is less common. For some reason, the contrived Hispanic name of "Hastur Lavista" came into my mind, unbidden. And now I can't banish it, and am laughing hysterically. Almost as funny as the name "Sailbad the Sinner", who thinks of nothing but of eating, drinking and the other thing when he gets to port. :-) - ---Pierre Savoie (ab966@torfree.net) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 13:22:19 -0600 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves Rob meandered fecklessly... >>I love thieves. Definitely one of my favorite classes in the game. (AD&D. OD&D thieves leave a lot to be desired). Considering what I think of most of the classes, I'd better like them or I wouldn't have much else to play! >I love thieves too. A pity they are naff... Rob, I really think you need to define this word so I can decide whether I need to boot you from the list for profanity... : ) >The problem isnt lack of combat skill. None of the characters I play are really killing machines (I seem to end up playing pacifistic scholarly mages >most of the time). Its that the thief class abilities "just dont cut it". >Its magic that brings the thief class low. And their is so much magic about! (I'm an advocate of low magic campaigns, hence the arguments i put >up against their being loads of Alphatian wizards...). A simple continual >light spell stops thieves from sneaking around within its area of effect. And EVERYONE has access to continual light, as its a low level mage and priest spell which is permanent! (I guess there is no such thing as a "lantern" in any D+D world...) I am confused, you talking about being an advocate of low magic campaigns, yet talk about magic eliminating the need for thief abilities. I am an advocate of moderate levels of magic, and in my games, and the games I have been in with moderate magic and good GM's, the thief is just as useful as the other party members. >Climb walls is pretty naff when compared with fly, polymorph self, levitate, and when walls are covered with grease. Detect invisible spots thieves (when playing Planescape, dont even bother being a thief - just about everything gets detect invisible permanently). Open locks doesnt open >wizard locks (and even nonmagical locks can have huge penalties to an open >locks roll). Finding traps is OK - but it takes a g e s to check for traps - a trap in the middle of a corridor isnt going to be noticed, unless >the thief is scouring the corridor with a fine tooth comb (and taking 3 hours to search 50 yards of corridor...). Even a simple pit trap with poisoned spikes will kill a thief, because the thief will just blunder into >it, because it takes so long to find traps... And none of these have been particularly common in the games I play in or GM. As an extension of this, Fireball, Lightning Bolt and Death Spell eliminate the need for Warriors, but I don't see a lack of useful warrios, either. If these things are common, if every door is wizard locked and every wizard has spells to either replicate or counter the actions of thieves, I could see a problem. I just hasn't been the case in the game I have been in. >Added to all this grief, the DMs around here all say that undead sense >life force rather than "seeing" in the conventional sense (so thieves cant >sneak past them) - as do golems and a few other beasties... I agree with them for the most part, and in a campaign where such things are prevelant, I could see a problem. >Sure, you can play a good sneaky roleplaying type thief, but you might >as well just play a fighter (or a 0 level human!) because those thief skills >sure arent going to help you... They have helped me or my players countless times over the many years I have played. >What do u use thieves for? Presumably scouting, breaking and entering, >and stealing (I think every adventure will have a requirement for one or more of the above). But if you want to do these things, dont look to the thief to do it... Odd, it is usually the thief that does it in our games. >I am reminded of a recent episode in a Spelljammer campaign. The party thief (actually a fighter/thief, because a straight thief would just be useless... :) sneaked aboard a Spelljammer which was suspected of smuggling >illegal goods into the Rock of Bral (you cant get much more thiefy than that...). I remember looking over at a fellow player and saying "I wonder >how long it will be before he gets caught and we have to go in and rescue him?". Turned out to be about 15 minutes. I think it was the brightly lit >corridors that did it, a failed disguise roll (not surprising, as one had to >made whenever anyone on board spotted the thief) and the mind flayer that was on board... First, your right, the illithid would be problematic. Such is the nature of the mind flayer. Most classes are going to find themselves at a disadvantage against a illithid. Second, the GM that required the roll against Disguise for every person encountered made an extremely poor GM call, in my experienced opinion, though I admit this would depend on who the thief was trying to disguise himself as. Finally, what kind of ship has every hall brightly lit? If the ship is fully decked out in Continual Light rocks, I can see this, but how common are such things, even in space? Not very, in my games at least. [1] >Nowadays in the campaigns around here the thief class is just a joke. Scouting became described as "sending the thief in to get eaten alive while >the rest of the party sneaks up and gets the drop on the bad guys". I'm running an EXTREMELY low magic Karameikos campaign where there is a party thief (and much benefit of the doubt on my part) where the thief is I think >holding his own quite happily. >But thats only after a conscious effort by me to give the poor thief a break... >I guess I should move to the USA to play a thief... Don't you have any of >these problems as well? Nope. I, as a GM, make little concious effort to make anything easy on any of the classes, but in most of my games every player of every class finds their abilities useful. Mages in the party might have a spell or two that would allow them to replicate a thief ability, but they aren't always going to have it available, and certainly aren't always going to be willing to waste the magic when a member of the party could do it otherwise. The only ability and spell combo I have had problems with is Hide in Shadow and Invisibility. The spell is certainly much better than the skill. Most of the game I have been in this has been only a minor problem because the wizard rarely casts it except on himself for emergencies and avoidance. When it would be handy for scouting, they cast it on the thief. Also, if there is a thief in the party, there is a good chance they will find a ring of Invisibility some point in the campaign. Just must be some differences in play style. In a previous post, for example, you mentioned proficiencies being of little use in your games, but in mine they get used constantly. Same with thief abilities, at least when their is a thief in the group (my current canmpaign has no theives). [1] Just an added note, not really relevent to the discussion at hand. Before my current campaign, I made a ruling: CL does not create permanent light sources. Duration is a number of days equal to the caster's level. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com ICQ #4253672 "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 15:24:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Savoie Subject: [MYSTARA] - Anti-D&D controversy, epilogue >Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 14:56:17 +0100 >From: elrond@post.olivant.fo (Jakup Michaelsen) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Anti-D&D controversy: pre-empting (LONG) >Well I'd prefer it in English. >Most of the anti-frpg books were books dealing with the evils of toys and media, and had a chapter of two on D&D. There were such books in North America such as Rev. Phil Phillips who wrote (would you believe?) TURMOIL IN THE TOYBOX. A sequel, TURMOIL IN THE TOYBOX was written by a woman assisted by Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 18:07:55 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #420 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: abba01d6f5cc3963a4f241596cfd43d2 him. He's younger than me; it's a bit funny for an old D&D-player to read a slightly younger "reverend" going on about it as an evil of youth. Phillips *actually wrote* that God "spoke to him" while he was driving his car, suggesting that Satan is acting on children through commonly marketed toys. Later he also wrote that Satan was trying to interfere with Phillips' overhead-projector when he first started to do talks on the "problem." Surely, this man, and not the toybox, is at the focus of cosmic forces he should attempt to resolve before trying to lecture others...how can a man so intimately touched by the Devil be sure he's doing the right thing? How can others trust him? Lots of people who think they "follow God" have been doing the Devil's work, who chuckles with glee but often catches himself and says to himself things like, "Hey, *I* never manipulated the humans to do those atomic-bomb attacks in Japan. THAT wasn't one of mine. They even had an army chaplain bless the bombs before sending them out. Those humans are SCARY!" [paraphrased from the original edition of IN NOMINE, from France.] If we but teach role-playing to our children and insist on their right to do so as a school activity at PTA meetings (Parent-Teacher Associations, what we call the parental input to school boards) this stuff will blow over quickly. But to this day the largest school-board in Canada, the Catholic school-board for Toronto, bans D&D officially as "[a game] involving the occult." (resolution of June 20, 1985) Interesting note: they did this after a hue-and-cry against a games club at the Neil McNeil High School, the school attended by the late comedian John Candy. A lot of skullduggery occurred at the school-board meeting to achieve this ban, after angry representations by 7 speakers in front of the board until "visions of D&D murders/suicides danced in the heads" of board trustees, often delivered with only the barest indication of the name of the murderer or suicide or the American locality it was supposed to have happened. The trustees felt it was a little odd, but this issue was dragging on for 2-1/2 hours and so they used the excuse of "occultism" -- just to be on the safe side and so they could break for lunch. If that excuse were exploded, they would probably have found another. We don't have to stand for such shabby treatment of game fans; these Catholics are dead wrong and can't "wrap themselves up in the cross" to avoid the issue of fraudulent religious and media reports. I thank the mailgroup participants for letting me let off steam about this. Get involved with your school-board, by the way, to help sniff out shenanigans and prevent doctrinaire types from preying on children (before WE can prey on them, that is...) :-) We now return you to your regularly-scheduled lotus-eating fantasy (that is, wherever permitted by law and the local priest.) :-) - ---Pierre Savoie (ab966@torfree.net) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 16:13:23 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen << I will partially agree. The Ethengar horsemen are the best mounted archers in the world, bar none. But the elves as a people are probably better archers on foot, and I imagine the Ylari horsemen are nearly as good on horseback. >> O.k., let's talk serious: According to the rules from the Gazetteers the Ethengarian horse warriors are both the best archers and the best riders in the world, because "Elves of Alfheim" and "Emirates of Ylaruam" does not provide any special benefits for both profiencies like "Golden Khan of Ethengar" does. The second best archers are not the elves, but the hin. Or have everybody forgotten that a hin get a +1 to hit with any missiles? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 16:13:17 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar's invasion << Sorry oh great Khan for this heresy, in suggestion that the Ethengars may have a near-equal in the art of mounted warfare... :) >> Your apology has been accepted. You are allowed to continue your humble life. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 15:43:36 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri At 15.52 12/06/98 -0400, SteelAngel wrote: >I don't think it was completely lifted. I think it was lifted for only the plague, but I may be mistaken. The ban was partially lifted in 1001. Check PC4, DM booklet, page 43. Clerics are still forbidden to preach their beliefs, but they can enter Glantri and use clerical magic under very strict conditions. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 15:46:12 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Day of Dread (was Almanac/Glantri) At 10.58 13/06/98 EDT, Inconu@aol.com wrote: <<< >>After WotI DoD is a regular feature of the Mystaran year, but something similar existed also before WotI. If you look at the calendars given in some GAZ, you'll see that on 28 Kaldmont there's a 3% chance that all magic >>fails all over Mystara. >> >Those stats would actually mean that there would've been 3 DoD's in the last century, and 30 DoD's since the year 0. Yes, I know what % means :-) So, what's your point here? - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 15:51:59 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Cure for Amputations? At 16.57 13/06/98 EDT, Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: >And going by D&D rules, we have the advantage that "Heal" is a 9th level Magic-User spell available to any Magic-User of level 21+. So all Jaggar would need to do to get is arm back is negotiate with one of the remaining high level Princes.... Or find a level 21+ MU that is not a Prince. I don't think every high-level Glantrian mage has to be involved in politics. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 21:21:11 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal names (was: Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One) At 09.44 14/06/98 EDT, JamugaKhan@aol.com wrote: <<< >Vanya sounds like a Russian male name. >And it is. A friendly form of Ivan, in fact. >> >Sure, but isn't is spelled "Wanja"? Of course translating Russian words or names into Latin letters is matter of sheer luck sometimes. It depends. For example in Italian the russian letter "B" is translated "V", while in German it's "W". This happens because Germans pronounce "V" like our "F" and "W" like our "V". ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com DM in City Of The Stars - Mystaran Almanac Assistant Leader of Privateers - Student of Aerospace Enginnering Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 15:44:58 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Day of Dread (was Almanac/Glantri) At 23.00 12/06/98 -0700, Dominique Rivard wrote: ----Fabrizio Paoli wrote: >>If you look at the calendars given in >>some GAZ, you'll see that on 28 Kaldmont there's a 3% chance that aall magic >>fails all over Mystara. >Euh!? Please could you tell me from wich does this one comes from? The calendar in GAZ1, or the one in Rockhome GAZ for example. Just look at Kaldmont 28. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 16:04:30 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Some new kits for Mystara in D&D format Andrés Piquer Otero wrote: >I would like to point that this use of spells is precisely what defines the Aphatian Stage Mage kit. Otherwise, any wizard who casts illusions on stage would qualify. Alphatians want to play BIG; their performances are Hollywood super-productions. If they resorted continuously to Phantasmal Force, they would lose "thrill" amongst the public, being most of it composed of competent magic-users who would make their saving throw and see through the Phantasmal Force. If you can truly burn a prop castle 10.000 gp worth, why would you just pretend to do it? (Remember Waterworld or Titanic?) I was thinking about that after I sent the post. I agree with your point that seeing a production with illusions might end up showing nothing to some ;) - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ galwylin@airnet.net | ICQ #6755972 | AIM: Galwylin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 22:51:48 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal names (was: Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One) >Sure, but isn't is spelled "Wanja"? Of course translating Russian words or names into Latin letters is matter of sheer luck sometimes. It is in German. In English or French it would be spelled "Vanya" :) ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 16:37:26 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Adri Varma Plateau - an answer!!!! Geoff Gander wrote: >Any ideas out there as to why the waters from the Plateau are so foul?> Speaking for the people of Mystara... there are mages living nearby. It doesn't matter what caused it but we know they did it ;> - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ galwylin@airnet.net | ICQ #6755972 | AIM: Galwylin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 23:48:08 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Cure for Amputations? On Sun, 14 Jun 1998, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: >At 16.57 13/06/98 EDT, Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: >>And going by D&D rules, we have the advantage that "Heal" is a 9th level Magic-User spell available to any Magic-User of level 21+. So all Jaggar would need to do to get is arm back is negotiate with one of the remaining high level Princes.... >Or find a level 21+ MU that is not a Prince. I don't think every high-level Glantrian mage has to be involved in politics. IIRC, all graduates of the Great School are considered nobility. (this doesn't neccesarily give them a barony though.) Beyond that, how much they want to take part of political life is up to the individual ofcourse, though I should think it is easy to get caught into a web of politics, even if you'd rather stay out of it. Personally, I like to limit the number of highlevel characters to those presented in the books + the pcs + a small number of NPCs of my own creation. So IMC it will be very hard to find a high level glantrian mage who does not hold a dominion. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 23:59:37 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One On Sat, 13 Jun 1998, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: >Idea d/1. Gareth is an Old One that willingly gave up his status as Hierarch Old One, restarted as simple mortal, and gained Immortality during WotI. >This means he should be a relly old guy. I like this idea aswell. However I don't think he should've needed to become a mortal and then reach immortality. Rather, the Old Ones saw that the Immortals were about to destroy the world and something had to be done. One OO was willing to give up his power to stop the conflict. This was the OO wh0 appeared in WotI. After this initial interference he became the Immortal Gareth. I agree with Alex that he doesnt neccesarily have to start as an Initiate. He would need some power to make him interesting. Celestial perhaps? Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 15:07:25 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Adri Varma Plateau - an answer!!!! On Sat, 13 Jun 1998, Geoff Gander wrote: >Well folks, there you have it, straight from the archives! :-) Not only do we have a plausible explanation as to why there are cacti on an admittedly northern plateau, we also have a new monster. Anyone up for doing the stats on the Northern Saguaro? Also, Bruce mentioned nomadic peoples as being a threat to Glantri. What sort of nomads would these be? Could these be the sand folk, or something else? Possibly sand folk, though I imagine there are probably nomadic peoples related to the Urduk or Denagothians up there. IMC, I have an ogre mage, trained by a Glantrian wizard as an experiment, living up there, with a small band of humanoids that he is teaching they ways of 'civilized' mankind to. He avoids contact with anyone else though. Bear in mind that the Adri Varma plateau is the single largest plateau (next to Denagoth- my erroneus Atruaghin entry notwithstanding) in the Known World. There are probably numerous different types of creatures up there. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #420 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Sunday, June 14 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 421 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Map inconsistencies Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen Re: [MYSTARA] - Jaggars Evilness Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal names (was: Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One) Re: [MYSTARA] - Jaggars Evilness Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen [MYSTARA] - Transliterated names [MYSTARA] - Cultural Edifice Complex / What D'Souza Says ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 00:10:28 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Map inconsistencies On Sun, 14 Jun 1998, Mischa E Gelman wrote: >I know it doesn't pay to try to work out every inconsistency in Mystara but I just found one heck of a problem in the Blackmoor maps, in which nothing seems to match up. Any idea on how to 'fix' these problems is appreciated. >1)DA1 has Thonia south of Blackmoor and the Skandharians northeast. TThe HW boxed set map pre-cataclysmic has Thonia north of Blackmoor, no land mass anywhere NE of Blackmoor till you hit Zyxl, rather far away. SSo..do we follow Dave Arneson's scheme for the world or the one map that tries to match pre-Blackmoor and post-Blackmoor? This means you are following the theory that Blackmoor is on Skothar and had colonies on Brun, right? Works for me. I'd prefer you use the map from HW. you could say that the Skandharians are to the East or southeast rather than northeast? I dont have a map here so I'm not sure how well my ideas work.. >2)The HW DM's book repeatedly talks about Blackmoor/Beastman conflict and also mentions an Oltec civilization far south of Blackmoor. On the map, the Beastman and Oltecs are both far to the west, the Beastman presumably out of contact range. Could be contact with blackmoor colonies? >3)The Jennites are on Skothar, descendants of the Oltecs who arrived in 3000 BC. Now, a mass move of the Oltecs there during the cataclysm of Blackmoor doesn't strike me as too sensible - yes, everyone was moving in this time period, but why the heck would people head to the center of the disaster when their own culture is being wiped out? And how did a dying civilization make that long trek across the ocean? (BTW, this is the problem that started me on the whole map bit - trying to work out Jennite history right now) Hmm..I don't know about this one... Perhaps they saw a light in the horizon and though it was a sign to move there? >A white minority has spent centuries conning us into thinking a white skin makes people superior, even though the only thing it really does is make them more affected by ultraviolet rays and wrinkles - Gloria Steinem White skin should be a 5 point disadvantage, which means white people have 5 more points to spend on ability scores and skills.. Maybe not.. ;P Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 00:27:35 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves On Sun, 14 Jun 1998, Rob wrote: >>>BTW - who plays thieves out there? I'd like to see how u do - bbbecause I >>>want to play a thief, but given past experience there is little chance a thief would be any use whatsoever... tips? I have played lots of thieves. Mainly because I hate the AD&D magic system and that there is always another fighter in the party. But since the Thieves are so dull, my fav character class is the Bard. Here are a few ideas on how to alter the rules to make the thieves more interesting. This may change the style of the campaign slightly, but I don't think it will be unbalancing. >Its magic that brings the thief class low. And their is so much magic about! (I'm an advocate of low magic campaigns, hence the arguments i put up against their being loads of Alphatian wizards...). A simple continual light spell stops thieves from sneaking around within its area of effect. And EVERYONE has access to continual light, as its a low level mage and priest spell which is permanent! (I guess there is no such thing as a "lantern" in any D+D world...) I agree on this one. A few items that have really annoyed me are the Elven cloak, Elven boots, and gauntlets of dex. a good idea is to change these so that iunstead of giving various thief abilities at 90% or so, the could provide a +50% bonus. (or 50% to non-thieves) >Climb walls is pretty naff when compared with fly, polymorph self, levitate, and when walls are covered with grease. Detect invisible spots thieves (when playing Planescape, dont even bother being a thief - just about everything gets detect invisible permanently). Open locks doesnt open wizard locks (and even nonmagical locks can have huge penalties to an open locks roll). Finding traps is OK - but it takes a g e s to check for traps - a trap in the middle of a corridor isnt going to be noticed, unless the thief is scouring the corridor with a fine tooth comb (and taking 3 hours to search 50 yards of corridor...). Even a simple pit trap with poisoned spikes will kill a thief, because the thief will just blunder into it, because it takes so long to find traps... You could change the thief abilities slightly and make them like ninja-abilities. Climb walls at 90% will now work like spiderclimb. Hide in shadows at 90% works as invisibility. It would be a good idea for the GM to simply roll the Find Trap ability whenever a trap is present, rather than demand that looking for traps should be a stated action. >And of course, if the trap is magical (the infamous Glyph of Warding, which priests might as well cast on EVERYTHING, because they can) then this is halved. Even with 95% F/RT, a couple of Glyphs will prevent thieves from breaking and entering... Going with the ninja-ability idea, F/RT at 90% allows the thief to remove even magical traps and wards. >Added to all this grief, the DMs around here all say that undead sense life force rather than "seeing" in the conventional sense (so thieves cant sneak past them) - as do golems and a few other beasties... again going with the ninja-idea HiS could provide immunity to such senses. >Pick pockets and detect noise are both good skills. But hardly worthy of a class which should be equal in power to all other classes. >I guess I should move to the USA to play a thief... Don't you have any of these problems as well? Maybe thats why there is so much crime in the USA? (I've never been to the States so I really don't know what I'm talking about) Sincerely Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 00:37:51 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen On Sun, 14 Jun 1998 JamugaKhan@aol.com wrote: OO.k., let's talk serious: >According to the rules from the Gazetteers the Ethengarian horse warriors are both the best archers and the best riders in the world, because "Elves of Alfheim" and "Emirates of Ylaruam" does not provide any special benefits for both profiencies like "Golden Khan of Ethengar" does. >The second best archers are not the elves, but the hin. Or have everybody forgotten that a hin get a +1 to hit with any missiles? Screw the rules! (Strong expression, sorry about that) Anyway, lets look at what we want. Do we want a) to make the Ethengarians the most powerful characters in the known world? b) to make every people interesting and powerful in their own way? I prefer b. To do this we'll need to modify the rules. 1)Ethengarians should be the most powerful horse warriors. 2)Glantrians should be the most powerful mages. 3)Elves should be the most powerful archers. 4)Halflings should be a bunch of wimps? maybe not, any good ideas for these guys? Now we should adjust the rules to fit the model above. If you want a slightly different model thats ok too ofcourse, but lets not get stuck with whats in the books, if that isn't good enough. Remember that the books would probably have included more rules to make everyone more powerful if the authors werent limited to a certain number of pages per book. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 00:48:06 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Jaggars Evilness On Sat, 13 Jun 1998 Inconu@aol.com wrote: ><< I think what Kaviyd is trying to say is that it opens for the possibility oof working with Entropy. Which would be out of the question for a Lawful OD&D character.>> >Not really. A character can be lawfull to entropy. However you would be correct with the possibility of Jaggar turning to Entropy for aid. But that would be a very rare occurance. It would have to be under severly extreme circumstances, and even then, it would depend on the situation at hand. This seems like a very AD&D-ish interpretation of the OD&D alignment lawful. Also IRC Entropy is very chaotic. (It doesnt favour the chaotic alignment, but Energy which does, is the Sphere that is closest to Entropy IIRC). >>Seems to me that the AD&D products removed several interesting features from Mystara. No clerics in Glantri (although that was in WotI), Morphail loosing it etc. >I actually liked what they did, i mean, would you rather everything stayed the same or did you just think those additions weren't to your liking? .....but that's just an opinion subject anyways. I think a couple of the changes were a move towards making Mystara more "standard Fantasy" Allowing Clerics in Glantri f.eks. I dont like that. >>I say we change things back to normal. IMO that was much more interesting and much more fun. >I don't get what your stating here. I assume your just saying that you aren't adapting the AD&D products for Mystara to your campaign? I will run WotI in my campaign which is now in AC1000. I won't run the actual adventure, but the events will occur. Most of the changes happen here, rather than in the new boxes it seems. However I'm considering changing things back to normal after a few years. For example, clerics will be banished again when the plague is under controll. I think this should happen in the Alamancs to, but thats just my opionion. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 00:55:29 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal names (was: Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One) On Sun, 14 Jun 1998 JamugaKhan@aol.com wrote: >I've never liked Petra for that reason. Peter, the rock/cliff. It is a Hebrew name IIRC. Petra Oleum? hmm..reminds me of an Asterix story.. >> >So Asterix is known in Norway too? Good to hear, one point up for Norway. You surely know that "Petra Oleum" changed to "Petroleum". As a Norwegian you should be used with that. Asterix is great! :) Thanks for the one point. Petroleum! ofcourse, its so obvious now that you pointed it out, but I hadn't though about it. So, petroleum can be used to make potions of Strength then? ;) ><< I know that there are norwegian girls called Vanya or Vanja. I doubt that iit is of nordic origin though. BTW, Thor, Thorfinn, Thorbjorn, Tore etc are very common names aroun here. This is because of old traditinons of naming people after gods in the days of the vikings. I've heard of a guy called Odin aswell, but that is less common. >> >That is too funny, when we remember what Vanya's clerics did to the Northmen in Mystara. *heh* Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 18:33:20 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Jaggars Evilness Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: >I think a couple of the changes were a move towards making Mystara more "standard Fantasy" Allowing Clerics in Glantri f.eks. I dont like that. I don't think this is a problem really. The Glantrians knew what they were doing. Clerics aren't allowed to preach their belief. No problem at first glance but then remember that preaching is one of the things clerics do like walking. A lot of clerics end up in jail or worst because of that. What Immortal would want a cleric that doesn't actively try to gain converts? So, in the end, clerics can come to Glantri but its probably considered foolish to do so. A land filled with politics knows how to make laws that change nothing. We from the USA should know that ;> >I will run WotI in my campaign which is now in AC1000. I won't run the actual adventure, but the events will occur. Most of the changes happen here, rather than in the new boxes it seems. However I'm considering changing things back to normal after a few years. For example, clerics will be banished again when the plague is under controll. I think this should happen in the Alamancs to, but thats just my opionion. Really, its just a PR move. Glantri wants to look accepting (especially when they need something) but making you feel welcomed is another matter. Placing a ban on cleric really is more unrealistic than making laws of what they can and can't do. Especially when those laws make their method of operation outlawed. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ galwylin@airnet.net | ICQ #6755972 | AIM: Galwylin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 18:41:18 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: >Do we want >a) to make the Ethengarians the most powerful characters in the known world? >b) to make every people interesting and powerful in their own way? >I prefer b. To do this we'll need to modify the rules. I think it just needs to be restated. Ethengarians are the best HUMAN horse warriors and archers. Remember, the Alfheim elves were known for their horses also so they might be pretty good riders too. >2)Glantrians should be the most powerful mages. Um, why? Maybe in Glantri City but elsewhere? Glantri mages excel at combining magic and politics but magic and politics don't make a great mage. >4)Halflings should be a bunch of wimps? maybe not, any good ideas for these guys? These are the guys everyone wants to be reincarnated as. They have the best lives of any being on Mystara. A little touch of heaven on earth ;D >Now we should adjust the rules to fit the model above. If you want a slightly different model thats ok too ofcourse, but lets not get stuck with whats in the books, if that isn't good enough. Remember that the books would probably have included more rules to make everyone more powerful if the authors werent limited to a certain number of pages per book. Actually, I think the setting has determined who is what. If Ethengar was as powerful as reported then why have they been unable to cross a border undefeated? Maybe horsemanship is great on the plains but elsewhere... - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ galwylin@airnet.net | ICQ #6755972 | AIM: Galwylin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 20:41:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Savoie Subject: [MYSTARA] - Transliterated names >Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 09:44:55 EDT >From: JamugaKhan@aol.com >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal names (was: Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One) << >Vanya sounds like a Russian male name. And it is. A friendly form of Ivan, in fact. >> >Sure, but isn't is spelled "Wanja"? Of course translating Russian words or names into Latin letters is matter of sheer luck sometimes. "Wanja" is how it would be spelled in Eastern European languages like Polish which acknowledge the Latin alphabet, but use their own sound-values for each letter. Since Russians are independent of the Latin lettering, it is best for each Latin- lettering language to transliterate them into letter-sounds immediately recognizable for them. In English we must say "Vanya" and "Vladislav" whereas the Poles would spell it Wanja and Wl/adisl/aw (dot your i's and cross your l's). But in fact they actually pronounce the name differently from Russians, who mean l when they say l. - ---Pierre Savoie (ab966@torfree.net) Nie mo'vie po polsku, ale ucze, sie,. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 20:42:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Savoie Subject: [MYSTARA] - Cultural Edifice Complex / What D'Souza Says >Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 18:43:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Adam Curtis >Subject: [MYSTARA] - Enough[long]! (was: Cultural Edifice Complex) >Here's incredible proof for the following hypothesis: when people know little or nothing about something, they think they know all about it. Those who know enough about something will admit they don't know all about it. Oh, now, now, no need to make a claim that all the knowledge is on only one team. And why would university students in history know better? They enter a closed and cloistered world, cut apart Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 20:42:46 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #421 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 256a709e109dc99dbdd41619e15b7ed8 from reality, and learn only the things they are directed to learn in a Politically Correct establishment made up of people kicked upstairs through lap-dogging to the acceptable views, that tries to make more of women or people who weaved mud and sticks in their hair than what actually existed in history. At least I will give actual sources. Dinesh D'Souza mentioned the mechanisms of historical distortion in THE END OF RACISM (1995) which I present below. It is itself sourced. >Being a voracious reader of history, I have some expertise here and will share what I know about the history of innovation minus shallow eurocentrism. I've read a book too, and I will quibble only with the following of yours: >Guns: >China discovered explosives long before any early firearms even appeared in Europe (I thought just about everyone knew that). They did not use them for anything but pretty fireworks, to which they added various chemical salts for the colours. Often the credit must go to an innovator, someone who radically adapts and changes an existing thing. The needle has been around for thousands of years, but it took an American who took the radical step of turning the needle thread-end DOWN (what? absurd!), to make the Chinese textile industry possible with sewing-machines, employing a greater population than most countries possess! >Astrology: >Just about every culture that existed on this planet developed its own. This is the truth of it, but astrology is a negative and not conducive to social progress. Where were the first lands to FREE themselves of astrology as a means of policy-making? >Medicine: >Once again, every culture had its own. Other than in Greece for much of its ancient history, European techniques were actually notoriously primitive in comparison with other culture-specific methods, and that wouldn't change until well after the Black Death. Of course, Europeans were the first to stop thinking that diseases came from evil spirits due to that Black Death, for they got sick and tired of the Church's (incorrect) excuses about why such diseases happened. Later, the microscopes were turned on disease to find out what was really going on, and we sure did find out why (without non-European help). >And the United States derived tremendous medical knowledge from Native American herbalism up to and throughout this century. Oh? Define "tremendous". Any accident-based herbalism is no match for the Scientific Method. Progress is also way too slow to be helpful. For every genuine cure, there is a raft of traditional nonsense, and hundreds of thousands have already lived and died unhelped before one gets around to realizing just what herb helps what. You are not lending sufficient weight to the necessary mind- set of the Scientific Method which engenders true progress, not shots in the dark with an uncorrected raft of wrong thinking. >Newspapers: >Once again, its origins aren't in Europe. Samarkand, a silk road city in Central Asia, did the lion's share of the innovation required to develop printing presses. German cities added little to press technology, but was responsible for almost all its popularity. German cities added movable type, the key labour-saving feature. Instead of making an entire woodcut for a printed page, assemble and disassemble a page's component parts as needed. >The truth is Europe was the backwash area for the rest of the Old World from the fall of the Roman Empire until the beginnings of the trend's reversal in the 1500s. Here's one popular explanation of many for this trend in very short form (NOTE: though >**Stagnation versus Change** >I believe the true flashpoint of European advancement We go through all this expecting a learned essay and it turns out only to be "your beliefs". Give Europe due credit for raising the whole world from the mire. It's okay for a fantasy game to have widely different cultures widely spaced apart, but in the real world one culture forges ahead and explores the rest (with astronavigation, a purely European innovation that broke them free from coast-hugging, hence the New World.) By rights, Mystara would evolve into a setting akin to the SPACE 1889 RPG, where some cultures quite naturally and without apology overwhelm others anywhere else in the world. It took only 400 Westerners led by Pizarro to conquer the entire Empire of Peru, for example. In fact, I have half a mind to play D&D this way; it would make more sense. Here is what Dinesh D'Souza said in THE END OF RACISM (1995), p. 49-51. - ---------- "Whatever their shortcomings and mixed motives, the Europeans who voyaged abroad were the historical instruments of a major world transformation: the advent of modernity. Up until the late Middle Ages there were several civilizations of comparable military, economic and political strength - Chinese, North African, Indian. But between the sixteenth and the nineteenth centuries, this relative equilibrium began to change, and Europe emerged decisively as the most vibrant and powerful civilization. European strength was indicated by increased production of goods, which generated rising standards of living; by increases in the population, owing to a declining death rate; by an increase in knowledge; and by military sophistication, which reflected both wealth and the application of new inventions. The reasons for Western hegemony are complex, but essentially the rise of Europe is connected to the evolution of three systems: science, representative self- government, and capitalism. The rudiments of human curiosity, participation in public affairs, and the trading impulse are obviously universal traits. But the West developed specific institutional channels for these human proclivities -- for instance, universities, parliamentary systems, joint stock companies -- and specific methods for formulating and adjudicating political, economic, and general information -- for instance, elections, the free market, the scientific method. These developments produced not simply a different way of fighting wars or building cathedrals, but a radically new way of seeing the world, and man's place in it. No longer did the best minds in Europe think that they lived in an "enchanted world," government by mysterious spirits; rather, they were increasingly convinced that the universe operated according to rational laws, discernible to the human mind unassisted by divine revelation. The rise of Europe is connected with powerful ideas that we are now fully conversant with, but which were then entirely new: the idea of a coherent and intellectually accessible world, the idea of progress. For the first time, in the West, it was possible to envision man exercising domination over the elements -- the "conquest of nature." For the first time, it seemed plausible to think of history as having a secular purpose and technology as the engine of irreversible progress. Francis Bacon's hope, that a new kind of knowledge would enable "the relief of man's estate," an increasing triumph over the elements, was being realized. Thus Europeans began to think of their own society as moving ahead, while other groups remained stagnant. Europe between the sixteenth and the nineteenth centuries was a rich, powerful, increasingly self-conscious, and rapidly changing civilization. Several other societies had produced important inventions -- the Chinese, for example, invented printing and the compass, the number system came from India and was wrongly called "Arabic numerals" because the Arabs brought it to Europe. Europeans knew that Muslim scholars in Toledo and elsewhere had preserved much of the learning of the classical world that made possible the humanist Renaissance of Petrarch, Rabelais, and Leonardo da Vinci. Christian theology, which was largely influenced by Neoplatonism, suddenly encountered the revolutionizing challenge of Aristotelian philosophy, lost to Christendom but preserved in the Islamic world. Yet civilizational development does not always accrue to the originators or even the preservers of ideas, but to those who employ them in creative ways. European civilization was able to use foreign ideas and innovations, along with its own, to transform itself, while the institutions of other societies remained relatively unchanged. For example, printing had virtually no effect in changing Chinese society because the presses were controlled by the court; in Europe, the advent of printing dramatically altered many people's way of life. The Reformation is inconceivable without it. One reason for the growth of European power and influence is that Europeans developed the scientific method which produced not simply a plethora of inventions, but what William McNeill calls "the invention of invention," a systematic process for building on knowledge, and for correcting mistakes, that no other culture possessed, and that was simply alien to the ancient world. Europe was also in the midst of political and social revolutions, which introduced for the first time the idea of representative self- government on a wide scale. In short, before the fifteenth century it made no sense to speak of Europe, only of medieval Christendom. But when Columbus sailed, the concept of Western civilization was beginning to coalesce. And between the fifteenth and the nineteenth centuries, the West made a swift and irreversible transition from a traditional society to a modern society. Enlightenment would also help to produce Western success, and also Western racism. THE EMBARRASSMENT OF PRIMITIVISM For the Europeans who first voyaged abroad, much of the rest of the world came as a shock for which they were poorly prepared. Early modern accounts, such as Richard Hakluyt's sixteenth century PRINCIPAL NAVIGATIONS or Samuel Purchas's seventeenth century PURCHAS HIS PILGRIMAGE and HAKLUYTUS POSTHUMUS, convey the stupefaction of the Europeans who encountered distant and unfamiliar peoples. Europeans who were even then making a transition into the modern era found themselves genuinely amazed and horrified at other cultures which appeared virtually static, confined from time immemorial in the nomadic or the agrarian stage. The consequence was that many Europeans viewed the nonwhite peoples of Africa, the Americas, and elsewhere as savages and barbarians, "beyond the pale of civilization," to borrow Metternich's phrase. Significantly, it was the Portuguese who arrived on the shores of black Africa and not black Africans who voyaged to Europe. The Portuguese had the three-mast ship, the compass, the quadrant, the astrolabe, navigation charts, and a comparatively good knowledge of winds, currents, stars and latitudes. The Portuguese knew, as did educated Europeans of the time, that the earth was not flat. When the Portuguese sailed abroad in the second half of the fifteenth century, they left an emerging modern European civilization which had almost a hundred universities; which had several hundred printing presses and some fifteen thousand book titles in circulation; which had cannons and body armor and gunpowder; which used modern business methods such as checks, bills of exchange, insurance, and double-entry bookkeeping; which had mechanical clocks and precision instruments; which had harnessed the power of wind and water to grind grain, crush ore, mash pulp for paper, saw lumber and marble, and pump water, which had build Gothic cathedrals. This technical head start would soon produce a very large gap between Europe and the rest of the world. The enormous European lead is suggested by just a few European inventions and technological advances of the period, a list which could be vastly multiplied: the microscope (1590), the telescope (1608), the barometer (1643), the pendulum clock (1656), the thermometer (1714), the spinning jenny (1770), the steam engine (1781), vaccination (1796), the electric battery (1800). Essentially what happened, partly by historical accident, is that between the sixteenth and the nineteenth centuries, the most advanced civilization in the world crashed into the shores of sub- Saharan Africa and the Americas, two regions which were, by European standards, incomparably primitive. In many of the tribes of Southern Africa and the Americas, the natives had no numbers that went beyond one or two. The Europeans, increasingly skeptical and rationalistic in their outlook, became disdainful of cultures that insisted upon patterning behavior on the miraculousness of everyday life: one could converse with rocks, daily events were controlled by ancestral spirits, dancing and shouting made it rain, diseases could be cured by wearing masks, women could give birth to animals, and so on. - ---------- [it goes on to show that southern Africa and the Americas were not the most primitive cultures to be found either. The classic caveman bit of a man clubbing a woman over the head and dragging her off as a common form of courtship was actually practiced by Australian aborigines, for example, although they targeted women from enemy tribes...] See also http://www.cycad.com/cgi- bin/Upstream/Issues/race/index.html and /afroc/index.html >This "my superior culture" attitude that seemingly most people have has never yielded anything but destruction, often on a grand scale. Europe and Oh, I wouldn't say that. By preserving excellence and foregoing what doesn't work, borrowing ONLY what from other cultures is provable after careful and questioning scrutiny, one maintains progress. And quite frankly, there has been nothing from Third-World cultures presentable to the people who went to the Moon and made the Internet. In fact, the transistor making computers possible was made by William Shockley, decried as a "racist" for espousing sensible eugenics and racial policies, and his attitude to the idea of true cultural progress may have helped solidify his commitment to actually progressing electrical science into electronics. By contrast, we only invite greater barbarism if we forego our civil right to criticize other cultures, and hack away the primitivism and superstitious attitudes which hinder their well- being. We are as good as any to decide what standards of culture should be, and we have more information available to us on which to make a decision, since we discovered and chronicled all the other cultures. >North America fell into that Social Darwinist trap in the 1800s (we're still not totally over it), and look what happened. Millions killed, organized pogroms Yes, and Moon landings. You don't send astronauts into space who can't count beyond two, no matter how much Affirmative Action is piled onto our institutions. Notice that science sought to explain the concrete differences in cultures and races in scientific terms. Racial equality, however, has confined itself to religious dogmatism as its source of justification. Abolitionist ministers would take the most intelligent possible Black slaves, clothe them in silks and have them do sums or recite Latin, as "proof" of human equality, despite the obvious statistical sampling fallacy. We still have Minister Farrakhan and Rev. Jesse Jackson, we had the Rev. Michael King, Jr. (neither his father nor he ever legally changed his first name to Martin Luther). One only believes in racial equality in the Politically Correct view if one is forbidden from taking a global statistical analysis and placing it over anecdotal views, and if neo-religious bodies "sit on" and intimidate science the way the Catholic Church intimidated Galileo. Social institutions make vague, unproven excuses for ghettos instead of blaming the people themselves. In reality, we must get at the truth of the causes of social and intellectual inequity by rational means. >and holocausts, operative social structures destroyed, overpopulation, total impoverishment of Overpopulation? Oh, I would disagree with you there. We are the first to have achieved total control over our own reproduction (thus freeing women from a chattel existence for the first time anywhere) to counter the "problems" of success in obtaining food and high living standards produce. We are being engulfed, though, by the more mystical and less reproductively responsible societies, who keep to traditional pronatalist views while benefitting from Western lifespan-extension, guaranteeing over-population. The educated and responsible are punished for their responsibility. If we want to "go back to nature", we would not only destroy progress, but 98% of the people who depend on the fifty-fold yield of agriculture through mechanization and chemical fertilizers would have to die. The eco-nuts have elected themselves as the sole judge; they can choose who dies. But one thing is sure, "go back to nature" is like capitulating to nature's cruelty, and after 16 hours of back-breaking agricultural work a day, no such eco-nut will ever have the chance to teach the new generation a thing. Hence, no civilization. >No culture is superior. All cultures are important! Dead wrong, and self-evident for the last hundreds of years. Especially by the way inferior cultures "vote with their feet" in coming here. >Hopefully I've at least satisfied everyone's need to nit pick over this string. It has no place on the MML as we're here to discuss one of our favorite hobbies that is truly international, and Mystaran Because this mailgroup IS international, I will not tolerate very localized, liberal, Politically Correct views as the gospel truth. To try to elevate other cultures artificially, European Western civilization is denigrated. I much prefer to back a winner and show exactly why it wins than to try to justify or explain away the failures of loser cultures. Those who want to speak of the "sins" of a winner should burn their own computers first, in protest against Eurocentrism and the transistors lithographed in each microchip, originating with a racist, and spare us their participation in this mailgroup. Since Mischa has taken the liberty of slipping in little partisan taglines about racial equality, I might as well include this, to further shake up established historical ideas: "I have urged the colonization of the Negroes, [back to Africa], and I shall continue. My Emancipation Proclamation was linked with this plan (of colonization). There is no room for two distinct races of White men in America, much less for two distinct races of Whites and Blacks. . . . I can think of no greater calamity than the assimilation of the Negro into our social and political life as our equal . . . Within twenty years we can peacefully colonize the Negro . . . under conditions in which he can rise to the full measure of manhood. This he can never do here. We can never attain the ideal union our fathers dreamed, with millions of an alien, inferior race among us, whose assimilation is neither possible nor desirable." --Abraham Lincoln - ---Pierre Savoie (ab966@torfree.net) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #421 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, June 15 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 422 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Cultural Edifice Complex / What D'Souza Says [ADMIN] Mr. Daly's Incredible Powers of Prophecy (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Cultural Edifice Complex / What D'Souza Says) Re: [MYSTARA] - Day of Dread (was Almanac/Glantri) Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves Re: [MYSTARA] - Jaggars Evilness [MYSTARA] - Where's the Alamanac? Re: [MYSTARA] - Jaggars Evilness Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One Re: [MYSTARA] - Old One = Dark Powers (Gareth6) Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal names (was: Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One) Re: [MYSTARA] - Old One = Dark Powers (Gareth6) Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen [MYSTARA] - One Final Post [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 22:10:41 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Cultural Edifice Complex / What D'Souza Says At 08:42 PM 6/14/98 -0400, Pierre Savoie wrote: >>Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 18:43:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Adam Curtis >>Subject: [MYSTARA] - Enough[long]! (was: Cultural Edifice Complex) >>Here's incredible proof for the following hypothesis: when people know little or nothing about something, they think they know all about it. Those who know enough about something will admit they don't know all about it. >Oh, now, now, no need to make a claim that all the knowledge is on only one team. WHOOHOO! ROCK ON PIERRE! And on that note, you two (and anyone else involved) probably better take this off the list before Leroy has to send a 2nd warning (most likely attached to a dwarven throwing hammer). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 20:31:18 -0600 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [ADMIN] Mr. Daly's Incredible Powers of Prophecy (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Cultural Edifice Complex / What D'Souza Says) Daly >>Oh, now, now, no need to make a claim that all the knowledge is on only one team. >WHOOHOO! ROCK ON PIERRE! >And on that note, you two (and anyone else involved) probably better take this off the list before Leroy has to send a 2nd warning (most likely attached to a dwarven throwing hammer). Mr. Daly is a perceptive man whose words should well be heeded. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com ICQ #4253672 "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 23:34:46 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Day of Dread (was Almanac/Glantri) In a message dated 6/14/98 5:07:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, brizio@lunet.it writes: >Yes, I know what % means :-) >So, what's your point here? Well, it wasn't directly intended for you, as i sent it to the list. Also, it was because you understated the frequency in your previous post. <<>> - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 23:34:48 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves In a message dated 6/14/98 2:00:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, malacoda@lesbois.com writes: >As for tips... play with a good GM. If a campaign is a never- ending string of combat encounters, then a thief is going to be useless. I agree that a good DM is needed to properly play most classes and races out properly. However, the thief will not be useless in combat encounters. Quite the contrary I believe. They make for great scouts to prepare groups for incoming battles. Their detect noise ability is a beautiful tool at night when on watch. Their abilities will allow them to outrun and lose any pursuers that give chase. In combat, they are great forces. They try not to be seen, and execute their attacks in original ways usually. This is accomplished when one, uses a combination of their thieving skills and surrounding environment to assist them even when they aren't the odds on favorite. >But if the GM is good, and tries to present a large vvariety of encounter and plot possibilities, the thief is a wonderful class to play. Right. It is the DM's job, and no one else's, to make the game enticing for all the players. They must build the adventures around the characters...... >It is much harder to give tips to any one person on how to play a thief, since it can be very GM dependent, more so than most classes. Thieves are difficult to role-play. Usually it takes an experienced role- player to enjoy this class to the fullest extent. It's not as difficult as playing a druid or paladin, but it will be if the player can't find out how his profession can be useful. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 23:34:53 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves In a message dated 6/14/98 2:40:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rmunch@easynet.co.uk writes: >A simple continual >light spell stops thieves from sneaking around within its area of effect. And EVERYONE has access to continual light, as its a low level mage and priest spell which is permanent! (I guess there is no such thing as a "lantern" in any D+D world...) I really don't think a thief would be caught by these means as often as you're suggesting here. It may be a low level spell, but how often will a mage or priest be ready with this spell or know there is a thief in the area to catch? Plus, this is also only if there is a priest/mage that is the target. >Climb walls is pretty naff when compared with fly, polymorph self, levitate, and when walls are covered with grease. The advantage thieves have here is that they don't need to spend the time memorizing spells or praying for them either. Plus, they can attempt feats multiple times, whereas a mage must relearn the spell again.....and for spells like fly and polymorph self, it'll take a while. >Detect invisible spots >thieves (when playing Planescape, dont even bother being a thief - just about everything gets detect invisible permanently). Open locks doesnt open >wizard locks (and even nonmagical locks can have huge penalties to an open locks roll). Actually if they attempt to pick a magical lock, they are penalized 50%. Master lockpicks would need only a few tries to get through. >Finding traps is OK - but it takes a g e s to check for ttraps - a trap in the middle of a corridor isnt going to be noticed, unless the thief is scouring the corridor with a fine tooth comb (and taking 3 hours to search 50 yards of corridor...). Even a simple pit trap with poisoned spikes will kill a thief, because the thief will just blunder into it, because it takes so long to find traps... The only time a thief should be looking for traps would be if she had an idea that there was a trap in the area. Such places as, treasure rooms, wizard's libraries, a lich's phylactery, etc... >Added to all this grief, the DMs around here all say that undead sense life force rather than "seeing" in the conventional sense (so thieves cant sneak past them) - as do golems and a few other beasties... Certain undead and golems have been detailed as having the ability to detect invisible, so i don't believe they would have the ability to dectect the life source unless it were detailed as such. >Pick pockets and detect noise are both good skills. But hardly worthy of a class which should be equal in power to all other classes. Remember that these guys raise levels very quickly in the begining. Meaning thier HP increases quickly and likewise with thier skills. They are definatley weaker classes, but not at the begining of their careers. >Sure, you can play a good sneaky roleplaying type thief, but you might as well just play a fighter (or a 0 level human!) because those thief skills >sure arent going to help you... Why wouldn't they help? >What do u use thieves for? Presumably scouting, breaking and entering, and stealing (I think every adventure will have a requirement for one or more of the above). But if you want to do these things, dont look to the thief to do it... I don't believe you realize the full capabilities of this class. Thieves can be experts in many areas in which no other class can touch. Hardly a class to look over in my opinion. >I'm running an EXTREMELY low magic Karameikos campaign where there is a party >thief (and much benefit of the doubt on my part) where the thief is I think holding his own quite happily. >But thats only after a conscious effort by me to give the poor thief a break... I can see giving a character a break, as long as it doesn't lead the PC into a false sense of security. >I guess I should move to the USA to play a thief... Don't you have any of these problems as well? Not really. You should come in to Boston, you DM.... I'll be the thief......... heh heh heh ..... - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 23:34:53 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Jaggars Evilness In a message dated 6/14/98 7:01:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no writes: >>Not really. A character can be lawfull to entropy. >This seems like a very AD&D-ish interpretation of the OD&D alignment lawful. Also IRC Entropy is very chaotic. (It doesnt favour the chaotic alignment, but Energy which does, is the Sphere that is closest to Entropy IIRC). I believe the problem is in the definitions of alignments in which we are using. In AD&D Jaggar would be LE, this would be easier to understand after reading the passage in the PH. In D&D, he should be Lawful according to D&D rules. >I will run WotI in my campaign which is now in AC1000. I won't run the actual adventure, but the events will occur. Most of the changes happen here, rather than in the new boxes it seems. However I'm considering changing things back to normal after a few years. For example, clerics will be banished again when the plague is under controll. I think this should happen in the Alamancs to, but thats just my opionion. Okay, I was just confused from the original statement. I'm glad you clarified it. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 00:22:30 -0400 (EDT) From: hephaestion@iname.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Where's the Alamanac? Where can I get a copy of the Net Almanac of 1014 and 1015? - --------------------------------------------------- Get free personalized email at http://www.iname.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 00:32:07 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Jaggars Evilness In a message dated 98-06-14 06:26:58 EDT, rmunch@easynet.co.uk writes: >Uh? Seems that a major slating of G:KoM was that people thought it was just tthe same as the old Gaz. Now here are some differences, and you'd rather not have them! >*sigh* you just cant please some people... I think that the consensus is that there were relatively few changes, and that many of the changes were changes for the worse. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 00:32:10 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One In a message dated 98-06-14 06:45:57 EDT, Alex295@aol.com writes: >My madness spreads.....ah someone else read into that line. It would be kind oof cool to have the Old Ones ferry Rad to RL to show him what can happen to those that act so rashly on mere impulse and emotion without fully contemplating the possible repercussions. And since time is a bit different in RL, Rad could have been imprisioned there for eons but returned to Mystara a >year or two after the War. Of course, if that is done then Rad would be the first Dark Lord to ever return from Ravenloft -- or has someone else been imprisoned in Ravenloft and then released? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 00:32:19 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old One = Dark Powers (Gareth6) In a message dated 98-06-14 13:37:33 EDT, Inconu@aol.com writes: >To add to this.....Would the Old One be from a certain sphere of influence? I don't think they should be. If Gareth was from the sphere of thought and was >more powerful and influential than the current reigning hiearch, he would be >the new hiearch by default regardless, of if the Immortal was level 36. Perhaps they have no sphere of Influence, and aren't regarded as Immortals, but instead just as an Old One without any more connection to their old state of being. Any ideas? How about this -- the reason that this sixth Immortal Sphere does not seem to exist is that it is reserved for the Old Ones. If so, it would suggest that the Sphere of Entropy might have a real problem, as they would be directly opposed to the Sphere that the Old Ones belong to. But as for Old Ones impersonating Immortals of other Spheres -- they should certainly be free to do so, just as Immortals are free to impersonate humans and demi-humans of any class and level. My guess is that an Old One in Immortal guise would have the power of a 36th level Hierarch but would pretend to have a lesser level of power to avoid drawing too much attention to himself -- so the original Hierarch would remain in charge and might even order the Old One around. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 00:32:11 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal names (was: Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One) In a message dated 98-06-14 10:00:09 EDT, JamugaKhan@aol.com writes: Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 03:56:05 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #422 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: b4e7c9dbdddabb3a2145af0a3c223344 >Sure, but isn't is spelled "Wanja"? Of course translating RRussian words or names into Latin letters is matter of sheer luck sometimes. Well -- a couple of years ago a movie was released that had a main character named "Vanya" (male, apparently of Russian Jewish origin). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 22:06:59 PDT From: "Azure Ghost" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old One = Dark Powers (Gareth6) >From owner-mystara-l@phaser.showcase.mpgn.com Sun Jun 14 21:44:12 1998 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) bby phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA21981; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 00:33:56 -0400 >Received: by lists.MPGN.COM (bulk_mailer v1.5); Mon, 15 Jun 1998 00:33:56 -0400 >Received: (from majordom@localhost) >by phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA21951 for mystara-l-outgoing; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 00:33:26 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@lists.MPGN.COM using -f RReceived: from Mithril.MPGN.COM (Mithril.MPGN.COM [206.66.87.8]) bby phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA21840 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 00:32:27 - -0400 >Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) bby Mithril.MPGN.COM (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id AAA02369 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 00:32:25 -0400 From: Kaviyd@aol.com >Received: from Kaviyd@aol.com >by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv14_b1.1) id HWIJa07259 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 00:32:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <648564d5.3584a3d4@aol.com> >Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 00:32:19 EDT >To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old One = Dark Powers (Gareth6) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit >X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Sender: owner-mystara-l@lists.MPGN.COM >Reply-To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM >In a message dated 98-06-14 13:37:33 EDT, Inconu@aol.com writes: >>To add to this.....Would the Old One be from a certain sphere of influence? >>I don't think they should be. If Gareth was from the sphere of thought and >was >>more powerful and influential than the current reigning hiearch, he would >be >>the new hiearch by default regardless, of if the Immortal was level 36. >>Perhaps they have no sphere of Influence, and aren't regarded as Immortals, >>but instead just as an Old One without any more connection to their old >>state of being. Any ideas? >How about this -- the reason that this sixth Immortal Sphere does not seem >to exist is that it is reserved for the Old Ones. If so, it would suggest >that >the Sphere of Entropy might have a real problem, as they would be directly >opposed to the Sphere that the Old Ones belong to. >But as for Old Ones impersonating Immortals of other Spheres -- they should certainly be free to do so, just as Immortals are free to impersonate >humans and demi-humans of any class and level. My guess is that an Old One in Immortal guise would have the power of a 36th level Hierarch but would pretend to have a lesser level of power to avoid drawing too much >attention to himself -- so the original Hierarch would remain in charge and >might even order the Old One around. >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. I have a thought to this... it said in the old Immortal Box set that the Old Ones were as different to immortals as immortals are to mortals. So why have a sixth immortal sphere of influence when there shouldn't be one to begin with, the old ones are supposed to the immortal of immortals. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 01:20:13 EDT From: DrklngMuse@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves In a message dated 6/14/98 12:40:01 PM Mountain Daylight Time, rmunch@easynet.co.uk writes: Hi, everyone. To be a thief you have to think like one. You know people are going to try to stop you from getting what you want, but you are smarter than they are. You love the thrill of tricking and out thinking the others. >" Its magic that brings the thief class low. A simple continual llight spell stops thieves from sneaking around within its area of effect." True everyone does have this spell, and so do a few of the thief's friends. Carry a pebble with a continual darkness spell cast on it in a small secret compartment in you belt. It will counter the light spell, causing confusion until a second light source can be used and you have a chance to hide. >"Climb walls is pretty naff when compared with fly, polymorph self, levitate, and when walls are covered with grease. That is a rough one. If it is a wall of a house you are going to hit, lite the grease on fire in the confusion you can enter a door opened in haste, grab the target item, then get out fast. If it a wall you just need to get over, try climbing claws or even spikes (wrapped well to absorb sound, or a silence spell from a friendly near by priest may work) >Detect invisible spots thieves (when playing Planescape, don't even bother being a thief - >just about everything gets detect invisible permanently). I believe you are speaking of the Hide in Shadows ability? If it is not invisiblity it is blending in to the and not moving when you are being looked directly at, not a magical power. >Open locks doesn't open wizard locks At tenth Level a thief can use a scroll with "knock" on it >Finding traps is OK - but it takes a g e s to check for ttraps - a trap in the middle of a corridor isn't going to be noticed, unless the thief is scouring the corridor with a fine tooth comb (and taking 3 hours to search 50 yards of corridor...). Even a simple pit trap with poisoned spikes will kill a thief, because the thief will just blunder into it, because it takes so long to find traps... A simple pit trap? Probe with a pole. And most DM's will let you make a dex roll to jump to safety on the old pressure released covered pit if you state to are ready for that kind of thing. >And of course, if the trap is magical (the infamous Glyph of Warding, which priests might as well cast on EVERYTHING, because they can) then this is halved. Even with 95% F/RT, a couple of Glyphs will prevent thieves from breaking and entering... I let thief's have there normal chances to detect these traps, but only half to disarm them. Once found a dispel magic scroll or a call upon the party spell caster to remove it. >Added to all this grief, the DMs around here all say that undead sense life force rather than "seeing" in the conventional sense (so thieves cant sneak past them) - as do golems and a few other beasties... Have the party fighter distract them, then run past them (in light armor you should be faster than they are). >Pick pockets and detect noise are both good skills. But hardly worthy of a class which should be equal in power to all other classes. Pick pockets is a great skill! It gives you first chose of the items laying on the top of any chest you just have to pick open for the rest of the party. >"I wonder >how long it will be before he gets caught and we have to go in and rescue him?". Turned out to be about 15 minutes. Through down marbles or caltrops and run. Lead enemy into a prearranged ambush if things go bad. And "I don't have to out run the troll. I just have to outrun you," the mage Kerith to a companion. (Player's option: Spells and Magic) I hope this helps, DrklingMuse *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 01:30:05 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen In a message dated 98-06-14 16:26:54 EDT, JamugaKhan@aol.com writes: >The second best archers are not the elves, but the hin. Or have eeverybody forgotten that a hin get a +1 to hit with any missiles? Okay, the Elves of Glantri are only mediocre horsemen -- they are trained in riding but have no special advantages from horseback as Ethengarians do. However, they do have one big ace in the hole -- the fact that most of them are level 1 or better Mages and thus can cast at least one Magic Missile spell per battle. It is that ability and not any special ability at archery or horsemanship that makes them almost the equals of Ethengarians in combat. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 22:26:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Adam Curtis Subject: [MYSTARA] - One Final Post When I subscribed to this list, I fully expected to have some fun and talk about a cool hobby during this summer. I'm happy to say my expectations were met and exceeded. But not long ago, the 'Cultural Edifice Complex' string began turning stomachs. Again, I wanted an unserious intellectual side to summer fun. I *never* asked to test my academic knowledge of history while college was out of session, never asked for feeling the need to run to the library for quotable ammo, never asked to be blindsided by irrational thought whose time never was and never will be, that can rear its head in the most unexpected of places. *I flatly refuse* to xerox pages from doctoral theses, to quote experts in all respectable fields; *I refuse* to combat bigotry all-out in a list that was never meant as such a forum. I attempted to end this string so no one would have to be thrown out. I do NOT believe in censorship among young/older adults, and tried preventing it. Perhaps I made a mistake in breaking the rules by completely removing my commentary from Mystara, but I risked it believing I might succeed even though I thought letting the string wither away would be safer. Too bad for me. Maybe too bad for all of us. I said I would only break the rules that one time, and I will keep my promise as I don't want to increase any damage already dealt them. However, I will unsubscribe my MML digest as it is the only way to protest the recent degeneration of its discussion, and I'll re-subscribe only when definitive measures commence to ensure such strings never enter the list even if it takes a mediated format for success. But before I go, I have to remind everyone of several things. First of all, this is the MML and should not be confused with the *Social Darwinist Review*. Secondly, the MML was created in part to bring perhaps the greatest RPG world, one that we all truly appreciate, back into print. Thirdly, TSR is hypersensitive to a long list of things not politically correct. Though I oppose PC since I feel it's trying to simply put bandaids on bulletholes that need stitches, TSR owns Mystara's copyright and likely will not republish it if it sees absolutely the remotest, most paranoid possibility of Mystara being considered a racially controversial game setting. As the list owners plan on making TSR aware of the MML soon (at least I think that's the case), please avoid such pitfalls in the future. Long Live Mystara! AC _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 23:19:43 +0000 From: "Mike Harvey" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D I haven't tried using skills in my D&D game, but I plan to introduce them in the next session. Before I do I have a question: In D&D, characters rolled with straight 3d6 do not typically have amazing attributes. An "average" attribute of 10 has a 50% chance of success using the standard 1d20 skill resolution. However, even a fairly decent attribute of 13 only has a 65% success rate; few characters are going to have skills that exceed 60-70%, except magic users and thieves who are lucky enough to have lots of skills associated with their prime requisite. I was thinking of using 3d6 to resolve attribute and skill rolls, instead of 1d20. This gives much better chances for skills in the 13-14 range, and much worse for low skills of 7-8. Has anyone tried a system like this? How did it work? I realize that 3d6 constricts the range to 3-18. This is easily solved by rolling 4d6 and ignoring all sixes, giving a result of 0-20 centered precisely on 10. Mike - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bing@iccom.com (formerly mike@cs.pdx.edu) Mike Harvey HTTP://www.iccom.com/usrwww/bing/home.html Beaverton, Oregon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 08:47:48 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves Hey Leroy, can I play in one of your games? Cheerz ROB :) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 08:49:40 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen >According to the rules from the Gazetteers the Ethengarian horse warriors are both the best archers and the best riders in the world, because "Elves of Alfheim" and "Emirates of Ylaruam" does not provide any special benefits for both profiencies like "Golden Khan of Ethengar" does. >The second best archers are not the elves, but the hin. Or have everybody forgotten that a hin get a +1 to hit with any missiles? >Jamuga Khan Its the AD+D in me. Elves get +1 to hit with bows and +1 dex. (And if you use the Complete Elf they can do all sorts of cool archery trick shots because theyve had 100 years to practice...) Even in Tolkien elves are the best archers! Shooting bows is what elves do... Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 08:55:57 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves >Not really. You should come in to Boston, you DM.... I'll be the thief......... heh heh heh ..... >-Inconu Lol. You never know... I always wanted to see America (go west, young man!) Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #422 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 12:13:17 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #423 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 665300aaeb3ca451b615b95b4b169592 mystara-digest Monday, June 15 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 423 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Playing a thief. Re: [MYSTARA] - Midland Forest-cohabitation Re: [MYSTARA] - Where's the Alamanac? Re: [MYSTARA] - One Final Post [MYSTARA] - The big Boom (Was: Deformed Shadowelves) Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One Re: [MYSTARA] - One Final Post Re: [MYSTARA] - Jaggars Evilness Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves Re: [MYSTARA] - Playing a thief. Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves Re: [MYSTARA] - Powerful beings Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Cure for Amputations? Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical Parrying Re: [MYSTARA] - Powerful beings Re: [MYSTARA] - Jaggars Evilness Re: [MYSTARA] - Old One = Dark Powers (Gareth6) Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 11:17:45 +0200 From: Ezio Pignatelli Subject: [MYSTARA] - Playing a thief. >BTW - who plays thieves out there? I'd like to see how u do - because I want to play a thief, but given past experience there is little chance a thief would be any use whatsoever... tips? I played a thief from level 1 up to level 16, and I can assure you he wasn't crap at all. :))) Of course, I had to find out the right magical objects, and some of them costed me more than one adventures (one costed me even 2 con points!) But in the end, I found myself with a leather armour +5 (yes, exactly), and a ring of invisibvility 3 times/day. This, added to boots of levitation, made me a very strong thief, I think. :) On the other hand, I was level 16, had a barony which was 'covering' my own guild, etc. etc. And I build all this from scratch... I can assure you my Dm was far from being generous. I sacrificed a lot for these items first, and to get the barony next. :) Sure, in the first levels, just stay in the middle and pray. This is the only tip I can give you. But the Hide in Shadow/Backstab is the most powerful form of attack I have ever seen in low levels. And I once resolved the whole adventures by picking the right magical object from the pocket of a powerful NPC. :) You know, basically I remember that character this way: played very few; role-played a lot; but the few really smart actions were so important ewveryone still remembers them. :) If you want to know which kind of thief... well, he wasn't kind of robin hood. In fact, he was a SOB. - -- Ezio Pignatelli - Dipartimento di Astronomia - Padova Tel: +39-49-8293459 - Fax: +39-49-8759840 mailto:epignat@leda.pd.astro.it http://leda.pd.astro.it/~epignat - -- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 11:23:20 CEST From: "Herve Musseau" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Midland Forest-cohabitation From: BoBoII@aol.com >I like it. They have met, but after some careful obsevation, the elves (with >longer life spans) have seen that the ensuing generations of orcs are helping >to preserve the woods and are tolerated ( perhaps secretly monitored) and >generally left alone; except for occasional trade (though both groups are >pretty self-sufficient) >and moments when outside forces or dangerous/monstrous predators force the two >to work together. What if we have a mix of elves and orcs instead? This has been done before, in Graakalia, where gnolls and elves learned to live side by side so they could survive, and a new culture evolved from this. Maybe wild elves usedto live in thhe Midland forest, but for some reason they were doomed to extinction (maybe numbers dwindling because they have a problem to reproduce, or an powerful enemy was destroying them). At that point the orcs (or whatever goblinoids) entered the forest, chased by some enemy. There they meet the dying elves, but both groups are threatened by extinction so they decide not to precipitate both peoples' downfall and come to a truce. They do not really trust each other but soon realize that they must cooperate to survive. Half elf/orc, anyone? _____________________________________________________________ Herve Musseau Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/ Almanac page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/9037/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 11:41:02 CEST From: "Herve Musseau" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Where's the Alamanac? From: hephaestion@iname.com >Where can I get a copy of the Net Almanac of 1014 and 1015? Both can be found at the Almanac webpage, address in my sig below. _____________________________________________________________ Herve Musseau Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/ Almanac page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/9037/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 11:58:12 +0000 From: wizzard@mail.intcom.de Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - One Final Post Hi folks, AC wrote: >... >But before I go, I have to remind everyone of several things. First of all, this is the MML and should not be confused with the *Social Darwinist Review*. Secondly, the MML was created in part to bring perhaps the greatest RPG world, one that we all truly appreciate, back into print. >... I feel sorry for agreeing wholeheartedly. E.g. I got 176 mails from MML and not even ONE was for the taking. I deleted ALL of them. Another point is that I recognized that most of my (personal) good mailers (like DM, Jenni, Fabrizio, Balazs and several others) hit the list with quite lesser comments than former times. And I must also admit that they are right. I don´t like to participate in a debate that goes astray from Mystara and is directed towards an argue on social or racial backgrounds !!!! This seems to me like every 200th post is a subject "D&D is bad" or AD&D is worse" !! This list should be a place to "meet" and a place where you can ask for help if you have problems with some "related" rules or just want to get some comments on a new ideas. Or to get some background material for new campaigns to fill your own material with more life or TO LEARN FROM OTHERS !! This list should not be a place to be destructive towards others!! Sorry, my personal opinion and I won´t get back into THIS discussion anymore. No worries!! Wizzard, somewhat disappointed of the development of the MML. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 12:23:50 +0200 (MET DST) From: Wolfgang Razen Subject: [MYSTARA] - The big Boom (Was: Deformed Shadowelves) The question is, how did the great Rain of Fire happen ? A simple nuclear Reactor (called Powerplant) will not generate such a devasting power Anitmatterplants produce the power, but not the radiation! The Idea that all powerplants exploded simultaneously (sp) inspired me to generate following hypothesis: The guys in Blackmoore wanted to run a test series of s prototype of a FTL-engine (FTL : Fater than Light, or a Warp-engine) * Now incorporating the Battletech jump-physics* It must be charged with a gigantic amount of energy and just as it should be activated a surge of energy run though the planetary energy net, causing all reactors to produce energy at a 300 % level, causing all online-engines to go BAM! The reactors woll produce the radiation, the Fire and the like ; The misdriven jumpcore resultet in a gravimetric disruption in the Hyperspace causing the axisshift and (perhaps) the other neat thingies ;-) This sound most reasonable to me (and it explaines why some reacotrs still exists and blew up when activated). Comments welcome - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- shadow@POOL.informatik.rwth-aachen-de | If you flee, you only die tiered shadow@lvs.informatik.rwth-aachen.de | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 06:49:05 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves In a message dated 6/15/98 4:01:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no writes: >You could change the thief abilities slightly and make them like ninja-abilities. Climb walls at 90% will now work like spiderclimb. Hide in shadows at 90% works as invisibility. What level do you believe thieves should have these 90% ratings at? - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 06:49:07 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One In a message dated 6/15/98 6:12:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Kaviyd@aol.com writes: >Of course, if that is done then Rad would be the first Dark Lord to ever rreturn from Ravenloft -- or has someone else been imprisoned in Ravenloft and then released? Rad never was a dark lord, but it has happend to Dark Lords before. It's a very rare occurance for anyone to escape from Ravenloft, but it's possible. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 07:11:20 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - One Final Post In a message dated 6/15/98 6:24:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time, wizzard@mail.intcom.de writes: >Another point is that I recognized that most of my (personal) good mailers (like DM, Jenni, Fabrizio, Balazs and several others) hit the list with quite lesser comments than former times. You really consider this a problem with the list? >And I must also admit that they are right. I don´t like to participate in a debate that goes astray from Mystara and is directed towards an argue on social or racial backgrounds !!!! No one asked you to. Just read/reply to what you want to. The list isn't personalized to anyone here, so no one will be interested in all the topics. I never thought it was so difficult to delete an email. >This seems to me like every 200th post is a subject "D&D is bad" or AD&D is worse" !! Again, I don't see how one out of two hundred posts being deleted is a problem. >This list should be a place to "meet" and a place where you can ask for help if you have problems with some "related" rules or just want to get some comments on a new ideas. Or to get some background material for new campaigns to fill your own material with more life or TO LEARN FROM OTHERS !! Whenever you've asked a question about any of the above, have you been ignored? I doubt it. Usually questions are answered quickly here, and by many different people. I've been on the list for a while, and have never been disappointed with the outcome of response for a question I've asked. >This list should not be a place to be destructive towards others!! Well, this is funny considering your whole post is full of derogatory statements aimed at the entire list. >Wizzard, somewhat disappointed of the development of the MML. - -Inconu, pleased to say I've been very proud of the individuals here and would like to take this time to thank all that have helped and argued with me in the past...... ;Þ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 07:16:23 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Jaggars Evilness In a message dated 6/14/98 7:01:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no writes: >>Not really. A character can be lawfull to entropy. >This seems like a very AD&D-ish interpretation of the OD&D alignment lawful. Also IRC Entropy is very chaotic. (It doesnt favour the chaotic alignment, but Energy which does, is the Sphere that is closest to Entropy IIRC). I believe the problem is in the definitions of alignments in which we are using. In AD&D Jaggar would be LE, this would be easier to understand after reading the passage in the PH. In D&D, he should be Lawful according to D&D rules. >I will run WotI in my campaign which is now in AC1000. I won't run the actual adventure, but the events will occur. Most of the changes happen here, rather than in the new boxes it seems. However I'm considering changing things back to normal after a few years. For example, clerics will be banished again when the plague is under controll. I think this should happen in the Alamancs to, but thats just my opionion. Okay, I was just confused from the original statement. I'm glad you clarified it. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 07:16:22 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves In a message dated 6/14/98 2:00:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, malacoda@lesbois.com writes: >As for tips... play with a good GM. If a campaign is a never- ending string of combat encounters, then a thief is going to be useless. I agree that a good DM is needed to properly play most classes and races out properly. However, the thief will not be useless in combat encounters. Quite the contrary I believe. They make for great scouts to prepare groups for incoming battles. Their detect noise ability is a beautiful tool at night when on watch. Their abilities will allow them to outrun and lose any pursuers that give chase. In combat, they are great forces. They try not to be seen, and execute their attacks in original ways usually. This is accomplished when one, uses a combination of their thieving skills and surrounding environment to assist them even when they aren't the odds on favorite. >But if the GM is good, and tries to present a large vvariety of encounter and plot possibilities, the thief is a wonderful class to play. Right. It is the DM's job, and no one else's, to make the game enticing for all the players. They must build the adventures around the characters...... >It is much harder to give tips to any one person on how to play a thief, since it can be very GM dependent, more so than most classes. Thieves are difficult to role-play. Usually it takes an experienced role- player to enjoy this class to the fullest extent. It's not as difficult as Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 12:13:17 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #423 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 665300aaeb3ca451b615b95b4b169592 playing a druid or paladin, but it will be if the player can't find out how his profession can be useful. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 12:43:49 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves >>You could change the thief abilities slightly and make them like ninja-abilities. Climb walls at 90% will now work like spiderclimb. Hide in shadows at 90% works as invisibility. >What level do you believe thieves should have these 90% ratings at? >-Inconu >From what ive seen of thieves they typically specialise. Better to be excellent at one thing than barely acceptable at a lot of things. At least one thief stat of 90% wouldnt be unusual at level 4 i think. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 12:51:00 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Playing a thief. >>BTW - who plays thieves out there? I'd like to see how u do - because I want to play a thief, but given past experience there is little chance a thief would be any use whatsoever... tips? >I played a thief from level 1 up to level 16, and I can assure you he wasn't crap at all. :))) Of course, I had to find out the right magical objects, and some of them costed me more than one adventures (one costed me even 2 con points!) But in the end, I found myself with a leather armour +5 (yes, exactly), and a ring of invisibvility 3 times/day. This, added to boots of levitation, made me a very strong thief, I think. :) On the other hand, I was level 16, had a barony which was 'covering' my own guild, etc. etc. And I build all this from scratch... I can assure you my Dm was far from being generous. I sacrificed a lot for these items first, and to get the barony next. :) Uhh... magic items... (its like waving a red flag at a bull, that. And im a Taurus). Sounds like that thief was defined by his magic items, not his thief abilities. I mean, a fighter could duplicate a thief if he had a ring of invis and boots of levitation... But, I suppose, if he used his thief abilities to get hold of them thats ok. (Ill concede that one...) Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 13:00:14 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D I was thinking of using 3d6 to resolve attribute and skill rolls, instead of 1d20. This gives much better chances for skills in the 13-14 range, and much worse for low skills of 7-8. Has anyone tried a system like this? How did it work? I realize that 3d6 constricts the range to 3-18. This is easily solved by rolling 4d6 and ignoring all sixes, giving a result of 0-20 centered precisely on 10. Mike I like it. A lot. I've always hated the AD+D stat amping, where a 16 barely gives you anything, and an Intelligence of 9 means that you are the village halfwit. This will go some way to correcting that. Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 14:43:41 +0200 From: Lille My Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves At 22:27 14-06-98 +0100, ROB wrote: I like thieves too, but they are darned diffycult to use. I see it as a DMs job to make thieves useful in the party. >Nowadays in the campaigns around here the thief class is just a joke. Scouting became described as "sending the thief in to get eaten alive while the rest of the party sneaks up and gets the drop on the bad guys". I'm running an EXTREMELY low magic Karameikos campaign where there is a party thief (and much benefit of the doubt on my part) where the thief is I think holding his own quite happily. >But thats only after a conscious effort by me to give the poor thief a break... My own extreme low magic Karameikos campaign* have lots of room for a thief, but again it is all dependent on the master. Myself I have allowed for some houserules: 1) The thief can automatically pick pocket on nameless NPCs, that is everytime he crosses the market place he ends up with more money, than when he started. 2) If he breaks in somewhere to pick infomation or burgle, he may be misidentified as someone working there. Example: he is inside an office and suddenly the door opens (the thief then fails his hide roll) and in comes the owner, who assumes that the thief is a servant, who is in a place where he shouldn't be. The owner graps the thief and fires him(!), calls his guards and throws him out. 3) Move silently and hide in shadows works at least at double ability against nameless NPCs such as guards. The general idea is that the thief character can get away with a lot of things, as long as it does not involve important NPCs, in that case, his abilities work like standard. Second to enhance the thief, then create scenes where he has a chance to use his abilities or make them magical abilities. How about a pick magical lock skill or hide from detection magic and infravision skill. Backstab could be enhanced by Find Weakess skill, that allows the thief to find the enemys weak spot and hit him there for double damage and gain personal emnity from that creature. Lille My *) the fourth level party keeps refering to the magical sword +1 as the partys magical weapon and there was much rejoyce when they reconquered their magical sword. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 13:45:37 +0000 (GMT) From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Powerful beings Kaviyd wrote: >In a message dated 98-06-11 07:00:59 EDT, Inconu@aol.com writes: >><< >>So let me get this straight. The "hierachy" for powerful beings goes like this:Mortals >>Immortals >>Old Ones >>DM >>MML >>Or did I miss a step in their? :-) >> >>No, I don't think you missed anything. Looks pretty accurate to me. ;) >Actually, it isn't accurate -- in one's own private campaigns, the DM is supreme -- he can easily say, "I don't care what the MML says, we are still doing things this way...." And any player who appealed to the MML for help would be rightfully laughed at. Oh, I thought the DM in the list up there was Marco... :) gordon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 10:31:28 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D << I realize that 3d6 constricts the range to 3-18. This is easily solved by rolling 4d6 and ignoring all sixes, giving a result of 0-20 centered precisely on 10. >> The result would be from 4-20 which would eliminate a portion of the failure percentage. I believe the 1d20 method is the better method here, but that's just my opinion. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 08:16:30 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Cure for Amputations? >>>So my idea abot a scroll does work, for can anyone see why Jagger WOULDN`T have just such an item? <;-P >> HHHe wouldn't be able to cast a clerical spell from scroll... JJJamuga Khan We`re talking OD&D so he can cast the wizard cureall/heal >Wouldn't he, also, need both arms to do it even if he were otherwise able to >cast ? NO! just be able to open it and read! <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 17:38:14 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical Parrying At 08.05 13/06/98 EDT, MaestroPI wrote: >Me again. So, as before, I was dwelling on the concept, thinking about maybe introducing it into my current game, when it occurred to me that this sounds a >lot like Immortal Power Use. >Power use by mortals? It happens. Perhaps that may be a way of limiting how much raw "mana" a mage could use. It would sound fair to give a mage, for >example, 2 PP for each level they attain, and a neutral bias on the Prime Plane. This would account for cantrip type effects, creating spell like effects, and provides a base for raw "mana" tactics and combat. Perhaps mages >would be required to pick a sphere, limiting what type of magic "mana" can produce effectively, but also allowing for non-spell type magic by a mortal. It sounds similar to the new Magic system one of my players developed and we're currently using. Basically, each magic-wielder has a number of Magic (or Mana, as u like) Points based on his Intelligence and level and each of the spells he knows cost a certain number of MP. He must not list which spells he has memorized each day: simply we rule that any day (provided he rested enough) he can cast all his known spells (spells in his possession), and the more he cast spells, the more he gets tired and penalties apply. It's really simple and realistic, similar to Immortal PP but not so powerful. it's very helpful for low level PCs (lev 1-5), normal or a bit disadvantaging (only a bit) for Expert and Companion PCs and useful for Masters too. DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 17:49:47 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Powerful beings At 13.45 15/06/98 +0000, Gordon wrote: >>In a message dated 98-06-11 07:00:59 EDT, Inconu@aol.com writes: SSSSo let me get this straight. The "hierachy" for powerful beings goes like this: >>>Mortals >>>Immortals >>>Old Ones >>>DM >>>MML >Oh, I thought the DM in the list up there was Marco... :) What?! does it mean that the "DM" in the list is not me???? *Thunders and Roars* I'll show you what this DM can do!... *and the classic sentence follows*.. "You haven't seen anything yet!" ;p DM (who's wondering how much could he be forced to pay to TSR if they sued him for using their DM trademark...) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 16:50:19 +0000 (GMT) From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Jaggars Evilness Rob wrote: >>>Seems to me that the AD&D products removed several interesting features from Mystara. No clerics in Glantri (although that was in WotI), Morphail loosing it etc. >Uh? Seems that a major slating of G:KoM was that people thought it was just the same as the old Gaz. Now here are some differences, and you'd rather not have them! Just the same as the old Gaz??!?! Not by a long shot...very different in style and tone. And I wish it had as good artwork as K:KOA (which was *very* nicely presented). Actually, K:KOA could be critisised for not having enough changes to the setting, specifially the lack of new nobles... >*sigh* you just cant please some people... Well, yeah, you got me, it's true :) gordon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 18:01:11 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old One = Dark Powers (Gareth6) At 22.01 13/06/98 EDT, Inconu wrote: >Concerning the Old Ones are Dark Powers: >How about the quest for becoming an old one for the Immortals? Could it possibly be a huge plot designed by the old ones to recruit the (best of the best) of Immortals to add to thier power? Wow! Really subtle and nasty, but yes, it could be... just anything could be when it comes with defining the Old Ones and the Dark Powers >Perhaps they want the power, and thier greed leads them to imprisonment with the rest of the Dark Powers. Gareth could be a small portion of the Dark Powers that was released during WotI (which is why it's only as powerfull as an Initiate). The appearences could be attempts to spark curiosity in Immortals, and perhaps lead them on a road to becoming one. But why is then Gareth telling mortals to act individually without counting on Immortals, and to Immortals to let mortals to their lives? Is he trying to spread Freedom or Chaos? In this case, he could be either a "Jesus" like figure or a new "Gentleman Caller"... And has anybody thought about the possibility that Old Ones and Dark Powers BOTH live beyond the Barrier as separate beings? DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 17:12:36 +0000 (GMT) From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves Rob wrote: >BTW - who plays thieves out there? I'd like to see how u do - because I want to play a thief, but given past experience there is little chance a thief would be any use whatsoever... tips? One of my players plays a thief in our Glantrian campaign. Started off cooly enough, she was the head of a Private Investigator firm...now that we're later on in the campaign though... When you've got an 18th level magic-user, 4th Circle Fire Elementalist Baron, a 4th Circle Elven Dracologist Captain in the Army...well, being a 20th level thief is all very well, but on the few occasions when it comes to combat, she might as well take a seat and read for a bit (except she's blind...oh well, listening to the burning sounds then :) ) And there's not that much thieving to be done either...even if every ability is about 95%!!! So, yeah, I'd be interested in ways to make thieves more exciting, but without resorting to Magic...part of the campaign story relys on one of the PC's being a mundaner! gordon, who always liked thieves even thought they're rubbish in D&D *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #423 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 13:30:27 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #424 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 14d9396da3197d8c8d680be6eb32419d mystara-digest Monday, June 15 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 424 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves [MYSTARA] - Another Ludwig's speech Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal names (was: Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen Re: [MYSTARA] - Adri Varma Plateau - an answer!!!! Re: [MYSTARA] - Old One = Dark Powers (Gareth6) Re: [MYSTARA] - Why the Council of Alphatia is reasonable Re: [MYSTARA] - Old One = Dark Powers (Gareth6) Re: [MYSTARA] - Old One = Dark Powers (Gareth6) Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves Re: [MYSTARA] - Powerful beings Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves Re: [MYSTARA] - One Final Post Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical Parrying Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 18:18:18 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One At 00.32 15/06/98 EDT, Kavyid wrote: >Of course, if that is done then Rad would be the first Dark Lord to ever return from Ravenloft -- or has someone else been imprisoned in Ravenloft and then released? Somebody escaped during the Grand Conjunction, when Ravenloft nearly broke apart (to the DP's joy: they'd probably been freed... or utterly destroyed?): some domains vanished along with their rulers, IIRC (Farelle and Sanguinia and Arak are the ones i remember). And let's not forget Azalin is still missing.. ;p DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 18:21:23 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves Håvard: >>You could change the thief abilities slightly and make them like ninja-abilities. Climb walls at 90% will now work like spiderclimb. Hide in shadows at 90% works as invisibility. Inconu: >What level do you believe thieves should have these 90% ratings at? Okay, here is a suggestion: Master abilities for Thieves: When a thief gains 90% in a thief ability he has mastered this skill. He can continue to increase that ability, but he also gains a derived ability at half the value of the mastered ability. This ability is not improved seperately, but is always a derived value from the original ability. Pick Pockets Not quite sure about this one..ideas? F/RT Thieves who have mastered this ability can remove magical traps and wards. Pick Locks Thieves who have mastered this skill can open magical locks. Move Silently Thieves who have mastered this ability can move without making any sound at all. Hide in Shadows Thieves who have mastered this ability can become invisible. Climb Walls Thieves who have mastered this ability can Spider Climb. The effect is that of the spell, but not the duration. The DM decides when a new roll is required depending on the situation. Read Languages: Thieves can now Speak Languages as well as read them. comments are welcome. This should be especially useful for thieves in high level campaigns. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 18:42:19 +0200 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Another Ludwig's speech A so called "Angel of Steele" yelled: <> And Sir Alexius Dannelaran, renowned drunkyard, bolsterly added: <> "Ahr ahr! These dashing menaces really make me feel in good mood. You see, they remind me of the old times when i still ruled the great Black Eagle Barony: apparently nothing has changed. I am still much hated and envied by my enemies, but, well, all great personalities are! And answering to the petty Danneleran, if my cousin really wants to talk to me, HE must come here to Glantri: i am not one of his lackeys nor subject to him (thanx the Holy Blade)! I AM A HERO!" -Ludwig von Hendriks during a public interview [Late in the night the corpse of a faceless man has been found floating in one of the canals. From the garments and the symbols on his armor, many passerbys recognized him as the great adventurer called "Angel of Steele". His visage had been ripped off and no clear identification could take place. On his left forearms the constabularies found a branded symbol: a Black Eagle...] .... DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 17:48:21 +0000 (GMT) From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves Leroy pontificated: >Rob meandered fecklessly... >>BTW - who plays thieves out there? I'd like to see how u do - bbecause I >>want to play a thief, but given past experience there is little chance a thief would be any use whatsoever... tips? >I love thieves. Definitely one of my favorite classes in the game. (AD&D. OD&D thieves leave a lot to be desired). Considering what I think of most of the classes, I'd better like them or I wouldn't have much else to play! >As for tips... play with a good GM. *That's* where I'm going wrong!!! :) :) >If a campaign is a never- >ending string of combat encounters, then a thief is going to be useless. But if the GM is good, and tries to present a large variety of encounter and plot possibilities, the thief is a wonderful class to play. It also helps if the GM scraps the silly idea of handing out XP's for monsters, as this allows the thief to do his thing without thinking "Gosh, better run in and kill a few beasties so I can go up a level." >It is much harder to give tips to any one person on how to play a thief, since it can be very GM dependent, more so than most classes. And of course, since the thief IMC doesn't really do much "thieving" anymore...hmm, never did for that matter, just she needed a good hear noise skill and so we thought thief...considering the lack of sneaking around that they do (difficult to do when you're blind)...hmm, I think I chose a bad example :) But thieves be cool... gordon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 17:48:21 +0000 (GMT) From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal names (was: Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old >>So Asterix is known in Norway too? Good to hear, one point up for Norway. You surely know that "Petra Oleum" changed to "Petroleum". As a Norwegian you should be used with that. >Asterix is great! :) Thanks for the one point. Petroleum! ofcourse, its so obvious now that you pointed it out, but I hadn't though about it. So, petroleum can be used to make potions of Strength then? ;) Hmm, Asterix the RPG...now that could be cool :) Actually, there's a whole load of Adventure ideas in Asterix, as well as ideas for peoples names :) (Especially rereading them now that I'm older and realising why the Druid is Getafix....) gordon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 17:48:21 +0000 (GMT) From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen Håvard said: >Screw the rules! (Strong expression, sorry about that) At least you're not saying naff :) :) (I always associate the work naff with either Dr Who sets or things made on Blue Peter :) ) >Anyway, lets look at what we want. >Do we want >a) to make the Ethengarians the most powerful characters in the known world? >b) to make every people interesting and powerful in their own way? Yupyup, although it's already done in the Gaz's in ways I don't like. Specifically...where will you find the happiest people in the Known World? Well... Ylaruam, according to Gaz2 The Five Shires, according to Gaz8 Minrothad, according to Gaz9 Darokin, according to Gaz11 Do we see a pattern? I like to play up the differences in the different nations, and I think it's fine for each country to have national identy and people haveing pride in their country (You can see that on the list, what's the best country in the world! Why it's the one you're living in! Sorta...I still half wanna live in the States or Canada :) ) But for Minrothad, Ierendi, The Five Shires and Thyatis *all* to have these amazing Navies? >I prefer b. To do this we'll need to modify the rules. > >1)Ethengarians should be the most powerful horse warriors. By far! We don't want to get JK peeved :) >2)Glantrians should be the most powerful mages. Especially now that Alphatia has gone...I think it should take a long time for Karameikos to get anywhere near rivaling the Great School. As for the 250 36th level mages in Thyatis? Not IMC... >3)Elves should be the most powerful archers. Yupyupyup... >4)Halflings should be a bunch of wimps? maybe not, any good ideas for these guys? Kill em all! Umn, no, wait, calm down...halflings are OK, not that bad (gnashing of teeth at thoughts of Gaz8)...I used to like halflings until that Gaz...again, it was a "here's the Hin, and they could kick you ass!" style of writing...really didn't like it... > >Now we should adjust the rules to fit the model above. If you want a slightly different model thats ok too ofcourse, but lets not get stuck with whats in the books, if that isn't good enough. Remember that the books would probably have included more rules to make everyone more powerful if the authors werent limited to a certain number of pages per book. >"Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park Finally saw that ep :) Anyone else notice the creeping in of SouthParkism into the MML... gordon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 12:55:13 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Adri Varma Plateau - an answer!!!! << It also says, in the description of the kingdom of Peshmir (in northern Sind) that, although the waters from the Plateau are black and foul, the waters of Lake Hast are always clear and deep, with great fish swimming in its depths. I wonder why this might be. Any ideas out there as to why the waters from the Plateau are so foul?> >> Perhaps chemical industry or a mining company up on the plateau. :-) Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 12:55:16 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old One = Dark Powers (Gareth6) << > A portion of the Old One collective is sent to Mystara to kkeep an eye on things. But why is Gareth considered an Initiate? IIRC he is just described as a new Immortal. And since the "returned from the Void" line >is added it is reasonable that Gareth could be of any level. You're correct here. I'm not sure why I preposed Gareth as existing as an Initiate. He could be as any level Immortal. What level would you think him to be? >> Considering the dangers of the Dimension of Vortex he should be around level 30 or higher. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 12:55:16 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Why the Council of Alphatia is reasonable << Okay that is much clearer. I see the reasoning behind that. But given the differences of type, skyship and sailing vessel, I would at least have them seperated into different branches of the AIN. A third branch could be the submersibles of Aquas. The AIN acts as a governing body, while the different vessel types are divided accordingly to type and formed into fleets. >> Like submarine fleets, minelayer and minesweeper fleets, frigate fleets and, in some greater navies, carrier fleets? O.k. with that, but don't forget that it's a distinction made for administration reasons. A USN carrier unit consists of ships from all types. Likewise we could compose a AIN formation of one flying man-o-war, two flying scout boats, a number of small and great sailing ships and two submersibles. We should think about it. << The paramilitary aspects are interesting cause I have some sort of coastal patrols for my Randel GAZ. In there I have what I call the Riverine Fleet which is composed of river galleys that patrol the Randel River and the coastal waters at the mouth of the River. >> Have Randel ships for its own or use it the services of the Alphatian Coast Guard Agency, a subsidiary of OL Enterprises, 100% owned by the Order of the Lake. (This was an advertising spot by OLE marketing departement! :-) ) An information for all: IMO the Alphatian kingdoms should be responsible for Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 13:30:27 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #424 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 14d9396da3197d8c8d680be6eb32419d both police and coast guard tasks. I've invented an officially licensed company, the ACGA, which offers ships and crews for coast guard services for every kingdom which doesn't want to maintain its own fleet or wants to add more ships to its own fleet. These are galley of different sizes for use on river and lakes and in coastal waters. << The Gaz was finished but I was inspired to make a few additions. Do not blame me, blame Bruce Heard. It was after reading through Glantri Gaz that I was inspired to add naratives to give the Randel Gaz a more Gazetteer feel. >> O.k., as you like it! Bruce, you're blamed for the fact that Alex hasn't finished his work yet. :-) Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 12:54:56 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old One = Dark Powers (Gareth6) On Mon, 15 Jun 1998 Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: >How about this -- the reason that this sixth Immortal Sphere does not seem to exist is that it is reserved for the Old Ones. If so, it would suggest that >the Sphere of Entropy might have a real problem, as they would be directly opposed to the Sphere that the Old Ones belong to. That would be a bit unbalancing to the spheres. Has anyone considered that the Sphere of Principium may in fact be the combined 4 elemental spheres? Think about it, in the Gold Box, and in WotI, it implies that though Entropy is not directly opposed by any other sphere, but it does say that the 4 elemental spheres oppose its destruction of the multiverse. Thus it could be said that the 4 armies of the elements provide a blanket opposition to Entropy. If this is the case, then There is no unique "Sphere of Principium". This idea holds water with me, introducing a new sphere into an already complex multiversal view does noone good. >Old One in Immortal guise would have the power of a 36th level Hierarch As Immortals can choose any level/strength of mortal to become, the Old Ones should be able to choose which level of Immortal to become (hence Sinbad, who is only a Eternal) Max IV - Multiversal Scholar *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 12:57:33 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old One = Dark Powers (Gareth6) [snip] Please, oh please, do not quote an entire sendmail session, the entire post, and then add only a few lines at the bottom as a reply. That is VERY poor posting ettiquette (and is quite annoying.. too many >>'s make a message hard to read, at least in pine!) Sorry for the off-topic Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 18:08:11 +0000 (GMT) From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D ><< I realize that 3d6 constricts the range to 3-18. This is easily ssolved by rolling 4d6 and ignoring all sixes, giving a result of 0-20 centered precisely on 10. >> >The result would be from 4-20 which would eliminate a portion of the failure percentage. I believe the 1d20 method is the better method here, but that's just my opinion. Unless you rolled four 6's in which case you get 0... and the max you can get is four 5's which is twenty... I kinda like that system... gordon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 18:08:11 +0000 (GMT) From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D >I like it. A lot. I've always hated the AD+D stat amping, where a 16 barely gives you anything, and an Intelligence of 9 means that you are the village halfwit. This will go some way to correcting that. And while I like the thief skills from AD&D I much prefer the stat bonuses from D&D...I can remember them no problem and they mean someone with a 13 gets a bonus...a lot easier to get than a 15... gordon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 18:08:11 +0000 (GMT) From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves >>From what ive seen of thieves they typically specialise. Better to be eexcellent at one thing than barely acceptable at a lot of things. At least one thief stat of 90% wouldnt be unusual at level 4 i think. That's actually the only bit of AD&D I use so far...thief skills are easy to work out (60% to spend at first level, 30% every level after I think)...and allow you to be decent before you get to 20th level... Next phase is reading all those AD&D spell descriptions and using them! gordon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 18:08:11 +0000 (GMT) From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Powerful beings DM wrote: >At 13.45 15/06/98 +0000, Gordon wrote: >>>In a message dated 98-06-11 07:00:59 EDT, Inconu@aol.com writes: SSSSSo let me get this straight. The "hierachy" for powerful beings goes llike this: >>>>Mortals >>>>Immortals >>>>Old Ones >>>>DM >>>>MML >>Oh, I thought the DM in the list up there was Marco... :) >What?! does it mean that the "DM" in the list is not me???? *Thunders and Roars* >I'll show you what this DM can do!... *and the classic sentence follows*.. "You haven't seen anything yet!" >;p >DM (who's wondering how much could he be forced to pay to TSR if they sued him for using their DM trademark...) At least you're not the small bald guy in the red dress... GM, the DM (TM) :) Gordon McCormick UNIX Team - System Management UCD Computing Services Belfield Dublin 4 Ireland +353 1 7062017 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 19:18:29 +0200 From: Lille My Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves At 18:21 15-06-98 +0200, Håvard wrote: >Håvard: >>>You could change the thief abilities slightly and make them like ninja-abilities. Climb walls at 90% will now work like spiderclimb. Hide in shadows at 90% works as invisibility. >Inconu: >>What level do you believe thieves should have these 90% ratings at? >Okay, here is a suggestion: >Master abilities for Thieves: >When a thief gains 90% in a thief ability he has mastered this skill. He can continue to increase that ability, but he also gains a derived ability at half the value of the mastered ability. This ability is not improved seperately, but is always a derived value from the original ability. >Pick Pockets >Not quite sure about this one..ideas? The ability to hide stolen goods without it being found or perhaps the abiltity to stretch arms and hands, so he can reach high shelves and such (it is really nasty when the halfling masterthief is able to reach things on top of shelves, when standing on the floor. >F/RT >Thieves who have mastered this ability can remove magical traps and wards. >Pick Locks >Thieves who have mastered this skill can open magical locks. >Move Silently >Thieves who have mastered this ability can move without making any sound at all. Ability to move copletely silent and not leave a trace or be detected by animals (such as dogs). >Hide in Shadows >Thieves who have mastered this ability can become invisible. Perhaps just immunity to detect invisible and infravision. Too many critters at those levels can detct invisible at will or possess extraordinaryly powerful senses. Invisibility won't protect much against that. Another possibility is Shadowwalking. The ability to move from one shadow to another. >Climb Walls >Thieves who have mastered this ability can Spider Climb. The effect is that of the spell, but not the duration. The DM decides when a new roll is required depending on the situation. Perhaps also a falling immunity like 1st AD&D monks, that could fall distances without being harmed, if they just were close enough to a wall or other object. >Read Languages: >Thieves can now Speak Languages as well as read them. Or study magical sigils without triggering them, somesort of partial immunity to glyphs spells. Lille My *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 11:05:35 -0500 From: "Kay Ferrell" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - One Final Post wizzard@mail.intcom.de wrote: >>Secondly, the MML was created in part to bring perhaps the greatest RPG world, one that we all truly appreciate, back into print. >>... >I feel sorry for agreeing wholeheartedly. E.g. I got 176 mails from MML and not even ONE was for the taking. I deleted ALL of them. I have been a lurker on this list for quite sometime now and have enjoyed and learned from many of you. However, recently I have bee sorting my mail by SUBJECT and deleting en masse the MML posts. It pains me to do this, and I'm sure I've missed a few good posts, but I don't have time to wade through the bull to get to the meat. Please, let's get back to the real issue here *** Long Live MYSTARA!!! Kay *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 11:15:17 -0500 From: "Kay Ferrell" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Inconu@aol.com wrote: ><< I realize that 3d6 constricts the range to 3-18. This is easily ssolved by rolling 4d6 and ignoring all sixes, giving a result of 0-20 centered precisely on 10. >> >The result would be from 4-20 which would eliminate a portion of the failure percentage. I believe the 1d20 method is the better method here, but that's just my opinion. I've used the 1d20 method several times and really like it. I added one restriction though - - - No character, regardless of the rolls could have more than one attribute of greater than 18. My players were agreeable to this and we had some pretty well-rounded PCs out of it. Kay *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 18:21:01 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical Parrying >It sounds similar to the new Magic system one of my players developed and we're currently using. Basically, each magic-wielder has a number of Magic (or Mana, as u like) Points based on his Intelligence and level and each of the spells he knows cost a certain number of MP. He must not list which spells he has memorized each day: simply we rule that any day (provided he rested enough) he can cast all his known spells (spells in his possession), and the more he cast spells, the more he gets tired and penalties apply. It's really simple and realistic, similar to Immortal PP but not so powerful. it's very helpful for low level PCs (lev 1-5), normal or a bit disadvantaging (only a bit) for Expert and Companion PCs and useful for Masters too. >DM Sounds like the Channelling Wizard (out of Spells and Magic). They get mana (priests get theurgy, as i recall), but they become exhausted when casting lots of spells, so casting five spells in a row could be potentially dangerous. I use 'em for Alphatian mages, to make them different. Its about equal in power to the standard system. Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 18:18:56 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D ><< I realize that 3d6 constricts the range to 3-18. This is easily ssolved by rolling 4d6 and ignoring all sixes, giving a result of 0-20 centered precisely on 10. >> >The result would be from 4-20 which would eliminate a portion of the failure >percentage. I believe the 1d20 method is the better method here, but that's just my opinion. Well , its less likely to deviate from the average. But thats good. As you can easily work out the average, you could slap a modifier on the die roll, so you would need a stat of that grade to typically succeed. Thus, an Exceptionally difficult task would incur a penalty of around 5, meaning you need a stat of around 15 to do well at it. The problem is when your average blacksmith, with a skill of 10, fails to make horseshoes half of the time... (Im usually against making proficiency checks entirely, i rule that a check is only required when something exceptional is being attempted. I think it even sez this somewhere...) Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #424 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 16:17:04 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #425 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 3343f47f2e7d570c0cceee2cde517205 mystara-digest Monday, June 15 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 425 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves [MYSTARA] - The last moments before The Great Rain of Fire. (FanFic) Re: [MYSTARA] - Powerful beings Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen Re: [MYSTARA] - Powerful beings Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen [MYSTARA] - Asterix RPG...there WAS one. Re: [MYSTARA] - Old One = Dark Powers (Gareth6) Re: [MYSTARA] - Old One = Dark Powers (Gareth6) [MYSTARA] - Re: Asterix RPG...there WAS one [MYSTARA] - Ierendian names Re: [MYSTARA] - One Final Post Re: [MYSTARA] - One Final Post ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 12:32:18 +0000 From: darkone1@swbell.net Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves DrklngMuse@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 6/14/98 12:40:01 PM Mountain Daylight Time, rmunch@easynet.co.uk writes: >Hi, everyone. To be a thief you have to think like one. You know people are going to try to stop you from getting what you want, but you are smarter than they are. You love the thrill of tricking and out thinking the others. >>" Its magic that brings the thief class low. A simple continual lllight spell stops thieves from sneaking around within its area of effect." >True everyone does have this spell, and so do a few of the thief's friends. Carry a pebble with a continual darkness spell cast on it in a small secret compartment in you belt. It will counter the light spell, causing confusion until a second light source can be used and you have a chance to hide. >>"Climb walls is pretty naff when compared with fly, polymorph self, levitate, and when walls are covered with grease. >That is a rough one. If it is a wall of a house you are going to hit, lite the grease on fire in the confusion you can enter a door opened in haste, grab the target item, then get out fast. >If it a wall you just need to get over, try climbing claws or even spikes (wrapped well to absorb sound, or a silence spell from a friendly near by priest may work) >>Detect invisible spots thieves (when playing Planescape, don't even bother bbeing a thief - >just about everything gets detect invisible permanently). >I believe you are speaking of the Hide in Shadows ability? If it is not invisiblity it is blending in to the and not moving when you are being looked directly at, not a magical power. >>Open locks doesn't open wizard locks >At tenth Level a thief can use a scroll with "knock" on it >>Finding traps is OK - but it takes a g e s to check for tttraps - a trap in the middle of a corridor isn't going to be noticed, unless the thief is scouring the corridor with a fine tooth comb (and taking 3 hours to search 50 yards of corridor...). Even a simple pit trap with poisoned spikes will kill a thief, because the thief will just blunder into it, because it takes so long to find traps... AA simple pit trap? Probe with a pole. And most DM's will let you make a dex roll to jump to safety on the old pressure released covered pit if you state to are ready for that kind of thing. >>And of course, if the trap is magical (the infamous Glyph of Warding, which priests might as well cast on EVERYTHING, because they can) then this is halved. Even with 95% F/RT, a couple of Glyphs will prevent thieves from breaking and entering... >I let thief's have there normal chances to detect these traps, but only half to disarm them. Once found a dispel magic scroll or a call upon the party spell caster to remove it. >>Added to all this grief, the DMs around here all say that undead sense life force rather than "seeing" in the conventional sense (so thieves cant sneak past them) - as do golems and a few other beasties... >Have the party fighter distract them, then run past them (in light armor you should be faster than they are). >>Pick pockets and detect noise are both good skills. But hardly worthy of a class which should be equal in power to all other classes. >Pick pockets is a great skill! It gives you first chose of the items laying on the top of any chest you just have to pick open for the rest of the party. >>"I wonder >>how long it will be before he gets caught and we have to go in and rescue him?". Turned out to be about 15 minutes. TThrough down marbles or caltrops and run. Lead enemy into a prearranged ambush if things go bad. And "I don't have to out run the troll. I just have to outrun you," the mage Kerith to a companion. (Player's option: Spells and Magic) >I hope this helps, >DrklingMuse Good suggestions! I just might enjoy playing a thief again! ::bows:: Mike Miller < darkone1@swbell.net > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 13:31:52 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: [MYSTARA] - The last moments before The Great Rain of Fire. (FanFic) On Mon, 15 Jun 1998, Wolfgang Razen wrote: >The guys in Blackmoore wanted to run a test series of s prototype of a FTL-engine (FTL : Fater than Light, or a Warp-engine) I like this :) Time for more fan fiction! ... they may have tried to duplicate exactly the old Beagle's engines. (We have come to a consensus that they were matter-antimatter) The beagle crashed because the engines were not stable in mystaraspace, possibly because magical energy has a disruptive effect on pair particle creation. (matter and antimatter can't exist in magical fields, like those created by the world shield) Benekander may have figured this out, and forcibly shut the engines down to prevent a catastophe in Mystara's upper atmosphere. However, this caused the Beagle to crash. Years later, Blackmoor had advanced to the level where technology dominated over magic. The scientists probably didn't have the correct instruments to detect the magical fields eminating from the world-shield, and proceeded to develop their matter/antimatter reactors. However, sadly, Benekander was not around. He had been absorbed into Immortality (and his security card) by this point. Upon firing up the reactors for the first time this exchange happened: Scientist 1 (short balding man, with a metal arm): "Power levels nominal, increasing pair flux. Graviton singularity at green levels" Scientist 2 (medium height scientist, glasses, short hair): "Increase the flux to 4000 kiloquads, no more, lets see what this can do" Sci 1 taps out a series of commands into the console. Sci 1: "We've got it! Flux is at 400 kiloquads, power output is .. by the frogs.. 5 TERAwatts! We could power half of Mystara with this!" Sci 2: "We haven't even hit quarter power yet. Bring the levels up to 500 kiloquads, rotate the crystal to get a better deflection angle" Sci 1 turns dials and taps out some more comands Sci 3 (younger post-doc student): "Hey, Rafiel.. We have a surge in the power core, compensating!" Sci 2 (Rafiel): "I'm going to go check this out.." Rafiel goes into the power core clean room to check on the status of the core itself Sci 1: "Sound the alarm! We have a breach in the core! Rafiel, get the hell out of there!" Sci 2: "I can't get out, the door just autolocked to prevent contamination!!! I'm going to work from in here!" Sci 1: "Initiate autoshutdown of the core.. NOW!" Sci 3: "Working on it, power spikes are getting violent, its like there's some sort of field interfering with the flux grid" Sci 3 hurredly tries to compensate Sci 1: "Rafiel! You still with us? Use the manual shutdown!!" Rafiel, eyes blinded from radiation and smoke, grabs for the dials, but passes out before he can effect a repair Sci 3: "Flux up to 500 megaquads and rising" Sci 1: "What have we done?... What have we.." A blinding flash of light, coupled with searing heat, the entire complex explodes, causing an ionization of the atmosphere around Blackmoor. The superheated air becomes a wash of fire that extends for almost 6000 miles in every direction. Space time around Mystara is bent slightly, causing a major axial shift. Rafiel's mind watches the destruction of his world, and his own death. Time passes quickly for him. Hundreds of years in a moment, while his continued existance catches him off guard.. Rafiel: "Why? What did we do? Is this the afterlife? Who am I? Why am I here? CAN SOMEBODY HELP ME?? Is this a dream? NO! Not another explosion! Those elves.. Driven underground.. Can I help? Must remember survival training.. Wait.. I can remember.. Agh. pain.. I can feel again.. I can see myself, I'm glowing.. maybe radiation burns.. But I feel fine. I have to help those Elves.. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 13:36:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Powerful beings DM pontificated: >DM (who's wondering how much could he be forced to pay to TSR if they sued him for using their DM trademark...) Consider Thomas Dolby (which is his real name), was sued by Dolby Audio, it might be best you don't let TSR find out about you :). John Yu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 13:37:52 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen On Mon, 15 Jun 1998, Gordon McCormick wrote: >halflings until that Gaz...again, it was a "here's the Hin, and they could kick you ass!" style of writing...really didn't like it... Yeah, but it was not unexpected. Hin have been mailgned by players for years. However, i did have a friend who plaed a little hin named Enif for years. He was a force to be reckoned with. Max IV - Who also wrote that Blackmoor fanfic, and forgot to sign it!! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 12:36:35 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen Gordon McCormick wrote: >Yupyup, although it's already done in the Gaz's in ways I don't like. Specifically...where will you find the happiest people in the Known World? Well... >Do we see a pattern? I like to play up the differences in the different nations, and I think it's fine for each country to have national identy and people haveing pride in their country (You can see that on the list, what's the best country in the world! Why it's the one you're living in! Sorta...I still half wanna live in the States or Canada :) ) This is probably the only complant I have with Mystara. All the nations recieved great detail but they all seem to be about completely different settings without a key about how they fit together. >>2)Glantrians should be the most powerful mages. >Especially now that Alphatia has gone...I think it should take a long time for Karameikos to get anywhere near rivaling the Great School. As for the 250 36th level mages in Thyatis? Not IMC... I just can't agree here. Glantri is known for its mages but because they are know for magic, that should mean they are the most powerful mages in the Known World. There could be many mages to rival a Glantrian that never sets foot in the Great School. Now, if you're talking about mages with political power, Glantri is it but mastery of magic.. they're just one of many. Besides, isn't it the Radiance that makes them powerful in magic? When they leave Glantri, don't they lose that connection? >Kill em all! Umn, no, wait, calm down...halflings are OK, not that bad (gnashing of teeth at thoughts of Gaz8)...I used to like halflings until that Gaz...again, it was a "here's the Hin, and they could kick you ass!" style of writing...really didn't like it... I liked that Gaz for that very reason. Halflings have always gotten the short end of the stick (heh). That Gaz made them at least more than the comic relief of demi-humans in their own country. Dwarves, elves, heck.. even orcs all get their share of the spotlight but let the hin share in it... - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ galwylin@airnet.net | ICQ #6755972 | AIM: Galwylin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 13:39:19 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Powerful beings On Mon, 15 Jun 1998, Gordon McCormick wrote: >At least you're not the small bald guy in the red dress... Well, you know what you turn into when you DM for too long.. Max IV - Misses that show. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 18:37:52 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves >>From what ive seen of thieves they typically specialise. Better to be eexcellent at one thing than barely acceptable at a lot of things. At least one thief stat of 90% wouldnt be unusual at level 4 i think. That's actually the only bit of AD&D I use so far...thief skills are easy to work out (60% to spend at first level, 30% every level after I think)...and allow you to be decent before you get to 20th level... Next phase is reading all those AD&D spell descriptions and using them! Hmm. All sorts of spells there to make thieves like a broken pencil... Pointless. (Detect Invisible spots hidden thieves in AD+D - it even says it in the description). Problem is, the more spells exist the more powerful the mages/priests become. Even if the spells are balanced, the sheer choice makes the spellcasters more versatile, and that can be only good news. While the fighter gets neat fighting styles, the ability to parry, and other neat stuff. Thieves get zip (well, they can wear darksuits that give them +5% to their hide in shadows). Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 18:31:39 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen >(I always associate the work naff with either Dr Who sets or things made on Blue Peter :) ) Good to know at least one person knows what I'm talking about... "And heres one we made earlier..." Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 18:26:41 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves So, yeah, I'd be interested in ways to make thieves more exciting, but without resorting to Magic...part of the campaign story relys on one of the PC's being a mundaner! gordon, who always liked thieves even thought they're rubbish in D&D What I always liked about thieves is the fact that they dont need magic to do near fantastic things. They are just skilled - and sly. Thats why I dont like the idea of thieves using magic (continual darkness, invisibility etc.) Thats just a cop out, really. What is cool is when a thief nonmagically overcomes obstacles, and everyone thinks he must of used magic because he is just So Darn Good. (pity this never happens, but anyway...) Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 18:09:15 +0100 Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 16:17:04 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #425 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 3343f47f2e7d570c0cceee2cde517205 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves >My own extreme low magic Karameikos campaign* have lots of room for a thief, but again it is all dependent on the master. Myself I have allowed for some houserules: >1) The thief can automatically pick pocket on nameless NPCs, that is everytime he crosses the market place he ends up with more money, than when he started. >2) If he breaks in somewhere to pick infomation or burgle, he may be misidentified as someone working there. Example: he is inside an office and suddenly the door opens (the thief then fails his hide roll) and in comes the owner, who assumes that the thief is a servant, who is in a place where he shouldn't be. The owner graps the thief and fires him(!), calls his guards and throws him out. >3) Move silently and hide in shadows works at least at double ability against nameless NPCs such as guards. >The general idea is that the thief character can get away with a lot of things, as long as it does not involve important NPCs, in that case, his abilities work like standard. >Second to enhance the thief, then create scenes where he has a chance to use his abilities or make them magical abilities. How about a pick magical lock skill or hide from detection magic and infravision skill. Backstab could be enhanced by Find Weakess skill, that allows the thief to find the enemys weak spot and hit him there for double damage and gain personal emnity from that creature. Ive actually done just that, giving thieves their equivalent of the Circles of Glantri. (Ive already emailed all this junk to some people on this list). But it hasnt been heavily playtested, because no one is playing a thief IMC! >Lille My >*) the fourth level party keeps refering to the magical sword +1 as the partys magical weapon and there was much rejoyce when they reconquered their magical sword. Could be worse. The owner(s) of the +2 sword the party picked up kept on dying, through sheer bad dice rolls (I have never seen to many ones). In the end the Traladaran party members all decided that the sword was in fact cursed, due to the fact that whoever wielded it seemed to die, and in the end the perfectly good +2 sword was thrown into a lake... Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 11:15:04 PDT From: "Spencer Graham" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen I think a 50/50 mix of sleep and magic missile would be a bit more effective.....most of the ethies are still 1st level. That's an average of eight potentially neutralized per casting..... >From: Kaviyd@aol.com >Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 01:30:05 EDT >To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen Reply-To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM >In a message dated 98-06-14 16:26:54 EDT, JamugaKhan@aol.com writes: >>The second best archers are not the elves, but the hin. Or have eeeverybody forgotten that a hin get a +1 to hit with any missiles? >Okay, the Elves of Glantri are only mediocre horsemen -- they are trained in riding but have no special advantages from horseback as Ethengarians do. However, they do have one big ace in the hole -- the fact that most of them are level 1 or better Mages and thus can cast at least one Magic Missile spell per battle. It is that ability >and not any special ability at archery or horsemanship that makes them almost the equals of Ethengarians in combat. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 19:27:42 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen - ----- >I just can't agree here. Glantri is known for its mages but because they are know for magic, that should mean they are the most powerful mages in the Known World. There could be many mages to rival a Glantrian that never sets foot in the Great School. Now, if you're talking about mages with political power, Glantri is it but mastery of magic.. they're just one of many. Besides, isn't it the Radiance that makes them powerful in magic? When they leave Glantri, don't they lose that connection? I consider there to be four pre-Wrath nations highly versed in magic (to my knowledge) - Alphatia, Glantri, Honour Island and Herath. Of these, Glantri is probably the finest, due to the sheer diversity of magical cultures there, all who would have their own unique spin on magic (Flaemish, Alphatian, Klantyrish, Averoignian etc.). And the turmoil there would cause each mage to strive harder at magic to better his fellows (competitive magic - just like competitive capitalism drives the RW economy (or so the Tories would say anyway). Other, "lesser" magical nations abound - Thyatis (I dont like the idea of Thyatis being a magical powerhouse. Thyatis was a domain of fighters, basically. When Alphatia turned up they needed mages to balance it out.. i fail to see why there should be 20x as many mages in Thyatis as Glantri, even considering the vast disparity in size - i mean, we're talking about Flaemish/Alphatians here!). Darokin, Saragon, and all the elven kingdoms. Below this are places like Karameikos, where mages are Pretty Darn Rare. So, IMHO, in terms of rankings, Glantrians are doing pretty well (especially when Alphatia is sunk and the competition is replaced by the Karameikan School of Magecraft, who are like a *little* Alphatia with Terari). They are jointly at the top - and more importantly, they are visible, unlike the Honour Islanders, who live on a little secluded island, and Herath, which is traditionally isolationist and secretive. Of course, there could be many more magical kingdoms out there (and probably a couple Ive forgot). Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 13:56:12 -0500 From: "Galwylin" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen Rob wrote: >So, IMHO, in terms of rankings, Glantrians are doing pretty well (especially >when Alphatia is sunk and the competition is replaced by the Karameikan School of Magecraft, who are like a *little* Alphatia with Terari). They are jointly at the top - and more importantly, they are visible, unlike the >Honour Islanders, who live on a little secluded island, and Herath, which is >traditionally isolationist and secretive. I understand your reasoning, but I just wanted to make sure we don't continue with the idea that mages are from Glantri, elves are from Alfheim, halflings are from the Five Shires, etc. Do you see what I mean? ;> This has been a Galwylin© Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ galwylin@airnet.net | ICQ #6755972 | AIM: Galwylin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 14:58:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Savoie Subject: [MYSTARA] - Asterix RPG...there WAS one. >Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 17:48:21 +0000 (GMT) From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal names (was: Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old >>... >>Asterix is great! :) Thanks for the one point. Petroleum! ofcourse, its so obvious now that you pointed it out, but I hadn't though about it. So, petroleum can be used to make potions of Strength then? ;) >Hmm, Asterix the RPG...now that could be cool :) >Actually, there's a whole load of Adventure ideas in Asterix, as well as ideas for peoples names :) (Especially rereading them now that I'm older and realising why the Druid is Getafix....) >gordon I think there already WAS an Asterix RPG. I vaguely remember seeing such a thing, in English, a book with dice and stuff attached in a plastic mesh bag in a regular bookstore. It may have been a dumbed-down storybook or paragraph-book thing, I don't remember, but it's probably why I didn't buy it. Probably published by Hodder & Stoughton or whoever held the Asterix rights in the U.K. ASTERIX by Uderzo and Goscinny was a very long-running comic-book, bound in the French fashion in white hardcovers, until one of them died. It was translated into a host of languages, including Latin for class prizes in Latin. Even more, the animated cartoon productions were intricate, Disney-class things, especially the 2-hour ASTERIX ET CLEOPATRE (with 3 musical numbers!) The whole Asterix thing is a gonzo fantasy with shades of the HOGAN'S HEROES ethic, as they go around outwitting the bumbling Romans, and visiting many countries to satirize them in a kind of anachronistic FLINTSTONES way. For example, a Breton pointing to four odd mop-topped musicians in motley:] "These are very popular bards in our country who have rather an unsettling effect on young girls..." or something like that. Or going to Switzerland where a cuckoo water-clock is mentioned, and where the natives are obsessed with cleanliness and so look in horror at a Roman food-orgy in progress, where a cheese fondue figures prominently... :-) A big long serious article on the historical Celts [kelts] appeared in NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC, May 1977 pp. 582-633, with map insert. And sure enough, they mentioned Asterix and featured a one-of-a-kind comic-strip segment drawn especially for the article, at the very back. In case people still don't know what Asterix is, that article should be of course widely available at all libraries and yard sales. :-) Oh, and the ending of names is wrong. This was based on Roman spelling and passed into French pronounced the French way. In actuality, the native Gaulic way to pronounce a name like the Gaulic chief Vercingetorix (who surrendered to Caesar by throwing down his weapons and shield in front of him) would have been "WerkinGetoriKH" (hard G, and KH = sound as in German "achtung" or Scottish "loch"). - ---Pierre Savoie (ab966@torfree.net) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 15:06:09 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old One = Dark Powers (Gareth6) >How about this -- the reason that this sixth Immortal Sphere does not seem to exist is that it is reserved for the Old Ones. If so, it would suggest that >the Sphere of Entropy might have a real problem, as they would be directly opposed to the Sphere that the Old Ones belong to. Hmmm....would this be a Sphere equivalent to the Posistive Material Plane? Very interesting concept. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 15:07:03 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old One = Dark Powers (Gareth6) >>How about this -- the reason that this sixth Immortal Sphere does not seem to exist is that it is reserved for the Old Ones. If so, it would suggest that >>the Sphere of Entropy might have a real problem, as they would be directly opposed to the Sphere that the Old Ones belong to. >That would be a bit unbalancing to the spheres. Not really. Entropy has no opposed sphere. Plus, there wouldn't be many Old Ones in this sphere at all. I'd assume there would be 1 - 3......maybe 5 at the most. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 15:15:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Savoie Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Asterix RPG...there WAS one Oh, browsing a bit, I find there is the official Asterix website in France, with English pages, at http://www.asterix.tm.fr They mention an Asterix game that came out for DOS or Windows95, and video-game releases for various makes of home video-game units, probably only in the European market. - ---Pierre Savoie (ab966@torfree.net) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 12:29:31 PDT From: "Buck Satan" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Ierendian names I'd like to know if people from Ierendi use their family names as well as their given names (I wouldn't know, I don't have the Gaz). If so, would their family names sound like something Oltec (as in the PWA, they make up the majority of the Makai stock), or Nithian? (as the Nithians conquered the islands in 1000 BC. Then again, the Thyatians exerted their influence the islands too. In short, a common person in Ierendi would have what kind of family name? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 16:16:09 EDT From: CRlPTONITE@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - One Final Post >I feel sorry for agreeing wholeheartedly. E.g. I got 176 mails from MML and not even ONE was for the taking. I deleted ALL of them. I really can't understand the point of your email. Are you telling everyone to be more interesting? Or are you telling us to talk about what interests you specifically? If you don't like the subjects being discussed, you can easily start one yourself. Obviously a bunch of people DO like the current subjects. That's why there has been so much mail. - --- -- --Criptonite *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 16:16:21 EDT From: CRlPTONITE@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - One Final Post << I have been a lurker on this list for quite sometime now and have enjoyed and learned from many of you. However, recently I have bee sorting my mail by SUBJECT and deleting en masse the MML posts. It pains me to do this, and I'm sure I've missed a few good posts, but I don't have time to wade through the bull to get to the meat. Please, let's get back to the real issue here *** Long Live MYSTARA!!! Kay >> I have been on this list for years. Actually there's only a few people that have been here as long as me. My point is I've seen this list go days without a post. A couple years ago there may have only been 5 posts in a week and 3 of those posts were from people just checking if the MML was still working. We've come a long way since that time. Now we have 200+ members from what I understand. I don't have enough time to read all the posts either, but I love being able to delete 100 posts and still having a nice pile of interesting mail to read. Too many posts is much better than not having enough. This list may not be perfect, but I can say it is by far the best list out there. The administor has done a wonderful job and the members are very creative and intelligent. There may be little flame wars here and there but everyone I have talked to has been extremely helpful and full of ideas. - --- -- --Criptonite *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #425 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, June 16 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 426 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old One = Dark Powers (Gareth6) Re: [MYSTARA] - Old One = Dark Powers (Gareth6) Re: [MYSTARA] - Adri Varma Plateau - an answer!!!! [MYSTARA] - Atruagin Plateau Re: [MYSTARA] - One Final Post Re: [MYSTARA] - Powerful beings Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Old One = Dark Powers (Gareth6) Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen Re: [MYSTARA] - Atruagin Plateau Re: [MYSTARA] - Some new kits for Mystara in D&D format Re: [MYSTARA] - Map inconsistencies Re: [MYSTARA] - The big Boom (Was: Deformed Shadowelves) Re: [MYSTARA] - One Final Post Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves Re: [MYSTARA] - One Final Post Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Ierendi? (was:- The big Boom) Re: [MYSTARA] - One Final Post Re: [MYSTARA] - Jaggars Evilness Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen Re: [MYSTARA] - Another Ludwig's speech Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: [MYSTARA] - One Final Post ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 16:45:27 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old One = Dark Powers (Gareth6) On Mon, 15 Jun 1998 Inconu@aol.com wrote: >Not really. Entropy has no opposed sphere. Plus, there wouldn't be many Old Ones in this sphere at all. I'd assume there would be 1 - 3......maybe 5 at the most. But if *one* old one has limitless power, then the there wouldn't be opposition! I already gave my vews on this idea. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 17:55:43 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old One = Dark Powers (Gareth6) In a message dated 6/15/98 4:56:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, eand@WPI.EDU writes: >But if *one* old one has limitless power, then the there wouldn't be opposition! >I already gave my views on this idea. We had theorized earlier, that an Old One could only interact outside of Ravenloft, if it gave up it's omnipotence. The idea you replied to was concerning that thread. This hypothesized, Old One in Mystara, would be a bit more powerful than an average reigning hiearch. However, it would pale in comparison to an Old One. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 23:23:57 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Adri Varma Plateau - an answer!!!! At 11.08 14/06/98 -0400, Geoff Gander wrote: >Any ideas out there as to why the waters from the Plateau are so foul?> Glantrian experiments, of course! Do you remember Bruce's message about northern saguaros? He wrote: "These are the result of a Glantrian agricultural experiment gone astray." Probably the same experiments have poisoned the waters running down from the plateau. What's the english word for the opposite of fertilizers? - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 15:28:06 -0700 From: "Harvey, MichaelX" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Atruagin Plateau What (and where) is the Adri Varma Plateau? I have a question regarding the plateau upon which the Atruaghin clans live. Does the gazetteer describe it's geology? If it is a giant sheet of limestone it would be a great location for an underdark-style campaign with lost cities, subterranean seas, etc. (while the Atruaghins above are completely oblivious.) A volcanic or sandstone plateau would likely be solid, though it could have buried something I suppose. Does the gazetteer shed any light on this? I am thinking about developing something there for my campaign, but would rather avoid a conflict with "canon" if possible, and I don't have the Atruaghin Gaz. Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 19:02:47 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - One Final Post CRIPTONITE said: >I have been on this list for years. Actually there's only a few people that have been here as long as me. My point is I've seen this list go days without a post. A couple years ago there may have only been 5 posts in a week and 3 of those posts were from people just checking if the MML was still working. Just out of curiosity, how long HAVE you been on the MML? I started late 1995 - early 1996, myself... Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 19:06:59 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Powerful beings Marco said: >What?! does it mean that the "DM" in the list is not me???? *Thunders and Roars* >I'll show you what this DM can do!... *and the classic sentence follows*.. "You haven't seen anything yet!" Oh no! Run for your lives! Hell hath no fury like a DM annoyed!! :-) Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 16:20:25 -0700 From: "Joe Gerber" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D - -----Original Message----- From: Inconu@aol.com [Rob wrote:] ><< I realize that 3d6 constricts the range to 3-18. This is easily ssolved by rolling 4d6 and ignoring all sixes, giving a result of 0-20 centered precisely on 10. >> >The result would be from 4-20 which would eliminate a portion of the failure >percentage. I believe the 1d20 method is the better method here, but that's just my opinion. I think what he getting at was counting sixes as zeros. Another way, if it's easier, would to view it as 4(d6-1). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 19:25:26 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old One = Dark Powers (Gareth6) On Mon, 15 Jun 1998 Inconu@aol.com wrote: >We had theorized earlier, that an Old One could only interact outside of Ravenloft, if it gave up it's omnipotence. The idea you replied to was concerning that thread. This hypothesized, Old One in Mystara, would be a bit more powerful than an average reigning hiearch. However, it would pale in comparison to an Old One. Ahh. ok. I think I got my threads crossed. I wasn't following the Ravenloft thread. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 19:27:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Rob pontificated: >As you can easily work out the average, you could slap a modifier on the die roll, so you would need a stat of that grade to typically succeed. Thus, an Exceptionally difficult task would incur a penalty of around 5, meaning you need a stat of around 15 to do well at it. TThe problem is when your average blacksmith, with a skill of 10, fails to make horseshoes half of the time... (Im usually against making proficiency checks entirely, i rule that a check is only required when something exceptional is being attempted. I think it even sez this somewhere...) With 4d5, the average is 12. John Yu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 02:24:24 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen On Mon, 15 Jun 1998, Galwylin wrote: >Gordon McCormick wrote: >>>2)Glantrians should be the most powerful mages. >>Especially now that Alphatia has gone...I think it should take a long time for Karameikos to get anywhere near rivaling the Great School. As for the 250 36th level mages in Thyatis? Not IMC... >I just can't agree here. Glantri is known for its mages but because they are know for magic, that should mean they are the most powerful mages in the Known World. There could be many mages to rival a Glantrian that never sets foot in the Great School. Now, if you're talking about mages with political power, Glantri is it but mastery of magic.. they're just one of many. Besides, isn't it the Radiance that makes them powerful in magic? When they leave Glantri, don't they lose that connection? I disagree. Glantri is a wizard magnet. Since the days of Alexander Glantri, the most powerful mages of the KW have been drawn toward Glantri. Partly because it is the best place to meet other mages and find magical lore and expertise, but also because of the Radience. This is why the mages of Glantri are the most powerful ones. The mages of Karameikos are sissies. At least according to Gaz1. in the coming years Karameikos will probably become a rival of Glantri and thats cool. The rest of the nations have little info on how powerful their mages are, but I think they should be less powerful than the ones in Glantri. I saw your comment on how this would strengthen the national stereotypes, but I think we need these, so that we can break the later on. If we don't have any stereotypes, everyone will seem pretty standard fantasy. In my Karameikos campaign, Glantrian wizards are seen as increadibly powerful. Karameikan wizards speak about how Glantrians are arrogant snobs, though at night they dream of entering the Great School. (This is AC1000, so no School of Magecraft.) If you want your players to make non-glantrian mages you should make sure that the other mages are interesting aswell. Maybe they are very good at one type of magic, but not as good as the glantrians overall. Or maybe they just have a cool image. :) Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 02:26:55 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Atruagin Plateau On Mon, 15 Jun 1998, Harvey, MichaelX wrote: >What (and where) is the Adri Varma Plateau? North West of Glantri. >I have a question regarding the plateau upon which the Atruaghin clans live. Does the gazetteer describe it's geology? If it is a giant sheet of limestone it would be a great location for an underdark-style campaign with lost cities, subterranean seas, etc. (while the Atruaghins above are completely oblivious.) A volcanic or sandstone plateau would likely be solid, though it could have buried something I suppose. Does the gazetteer shed any light on this? I am thinking about developing something there for my campaign, but would rather avoid a conflict with "canon" if possible, and I don't have the Atruaghin Gaz. You should get in touch with Cthulhudrew. He seemed to have similar ideas. I don't remember anything specific on the geology though. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 21:01:44 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Some new kits for Mystara in D&D format In regard to Alphatian stage magicians, one idea occurs to me -- if the audience is expecting to be entertained and not subjected to any "real" dangers, might they not voluntarily fail their saving throws against the illusions? The phrase "willing suspension of disbelief" comes to mind here. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 22:21:38 EDT From: Mystaros@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Map inconsistencies In a message dated 98-06-14 13:38:51 EDT, Mischa wrote: << I know it doesn't pay to try to work out every inconsistency in Mystara but I just found one heck of a problem in the Blackmoor maps, in which nothing seems to match up. Any idea on how to 'fix' these problems is appreciated. 1)DA1 has Thonia south of Blackmoor and the Skandharians northeast. Simple reversal on the map. Blackmoor IS to the north, Thonia to the south... the "Thonian Marches" were the post-GRoF name of the former Skandaharian Lands... 2)The HW DM's book repeatedly talks about Blackmoor/Beastman conflict... For my take on how this works out, check out my History of Blackmoor. << 3)The Jennites are on Skothar, descendants of the Oltecs who arrived in 3000 BC. In my unposted "Greyhawk: A Mystaran Flanaess" work, the Oltecs who would become the ancestors of the Jennites were brought to Skothar as slaves in Thonia, and as they were mostly found on the huge slave-driven farms of the Thonian Overlords, they were the majority of the folk who survived. This is the explanation in my non-Flanaess Mystara as well... Mystaros *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 00:20:20 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #426 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 5117b1243759d5e665fa05825c420ff4 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 22:28:46 EDT From: Mystaros@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The big Boom (Was: Deformed Shadowelves) In a message dated 98-06-15 06:37:34 EDT, Wolfgang wrote: << The question is, how did the great Rain of Fire happen ? >> For my own take on this check out my History of Blackmoor, found on Shawn Stanley's website as well as on my own, poor, neglected site... Mystaros *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 21:20:34 -0500 From: "Kay Ferrell" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - One Final Post >Too many posts is much better than not having enough. This list may not be perfect, but I can say it is by far the best list out there. > The administor has done a wonderful job and the members are very creative and intelligent. There may be little flame wars here and there but everyone I have talked to has been extremely helpful and full of ideas. >--- -- --Criptonite Mea culpa ... Caught me on a *itchy day ... You are right, It's a very good list. And I would also prefer to delete a few, than wonder where everybody disappeared to. Apologies to all. Kay *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 20:39:36 -0600 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves Rob meandered fecklessly... >Hey Leroy, can I play in one of your games? Sure. Hell, eveyone's invited! We'll see how much damage we can do to Mystara with a dozen players in a 24 hour gamefest! I must insist that everyone bring their own beer, though... : ) I'm not made of money. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com ICQ #4253672 "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 04:44:45 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - One Final Post On Mon, 15 Jun 1998, Kay Ferrell wrote: >Mea culpa ... Caught me on a *itchy day ... You are right, It's a very good list. And I would also prefer to delete a few, than wonder where everybody disappeared to. >Apologies to all. Nah. I don't think there is any need to apologize. I think discussions about how this list should be are useful. Sometimes discussions are taken to far off topic. This can be annoying, but IMO is rarely more than that. Sometimes people get a bit hostile, and that is bad, but it hasn't happened too often on this list. (yet?) I am generally happy about the way this list is at the moment. However, if people have any criticism of threads or of people attitudes, I think its a good idea that people state their mind, rather than sulk about it among themselves and hope Leroy will sort it out. Thanks for listening. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 04:47:22 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves On Mon, 15 Jun 1998, Leroy Van Camp III wrote: >Rob meandered fecklessly... >>Hey Leroy, can I play in one of your games? >Sure. Hell, eveyone's invited! We'll see how much damage we can do to Mystara with a dozen players in a 24 hour gamefest! >I must insist that everyone bring their own beer, though... : ) I'm not made of money. Hey, whats the adress :P Actually I attended to a game session with 11 players. It was not exactly the ideal gaming situation IMO. I wonder what the DM though about it... Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 04:49:52 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Ierendi? (was:- The big Boom) On Mon, 15 Jun 1998 Mystaros@aol.com wrote: >For my own take on this check out my History of Blackmoor, found on Shawn Stanley's website as well as on my own, poor, neglected site... Hey Mystaros! You mentioned to me some time ago that you had done some drastic changes to Ierendi IYC. Want to share it? Send it to me privately if you dont want to bother the list with it. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 05:01:10 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - One Final Post On Mon, 15 Jun 1998, Geoff Gander wrote: >CRIPTONITE said: >>I have been on this list for years. Actually there's only a few people that have been here as long as me. My point is I've seen this list go days without a post. A couple years ago there may have only been 5 posts in a week and 3 of those posts were from people just checking if the MML was still working. >Just out of curiosity, how long HAVE you been on the MML? I started late 1995 - early 1996, myself... You've been on here that long Geoff? Wow, im impressed. IIRC I joined the list about the same time. The people I remeber posting at the time were Chtulhudrew, Fabrizio, Peter Balatz, David Azure, and Mischa Gelman. And maybe Jenni. Ofcourse, I was a lurker for a while. Maybe I should have stayed a lurker instead of spewing useless chit chat on this list? ;P Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 05:03:27 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Jaggars Evilness On Sun, 14 Jun 1998 Inconu@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 6/14/98 7:01:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no writes: >>>Not really. A character can be lawfull to entropy. >>This seems like a very AD&D-ish interpretation of the OD&D alignment lawful. Also IRC Entropy is very chaotic. (It doesnt favour the chaotic alignment, but Energy which does, is the Sphere that is closest to Entropy IIRC). >I believe the problem is in the definitions of alignments in which we are using. In AD&D Jaggar would be LE, this would be easier to understand after reading the passage in the PH. In D&D, he should be Lawful according to D&D rules. Yep, you are right. I think we generally agree on Jaggars personality though. So there isn't that much point in discussing this any further is it? I've stopped using alignments anyway :) >>I will run WotI in my campaign which is now in AC1000. I won't run the actual adventure, but the events will occur. Most of the changes happen here, rather than in the new boxes it seems. However I'm considering changing things back to normal after a few years. For example, clerics will be banished again when the plague is under controll. I think this should happen in the Alamancs to, but thats just my opionion. >Okay, I was just confused from the original statement. I'm glad you clarified it. Any time! :) Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 22:14:23 -0500 From: "Galwylin" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: >If you want your players to make non-glantrian mages you should make sure that the other mages are interesting aswell. Maybe they are very good at one type of magic, but not as good as the glantrians overall. Or maybe they just have a cool image. :) Well, this was what I thought was being said, if a player wants to play a mage they need to be from Glantri to be a REAL mage. I just can't agree that mages from any other country is less than one from Glantri. Glantri as a place is great its just not the only place magic exists. It just seems like more division by class. Other mages from other countries are going to have an interesting background just like Glantrian wizards only based on his nation. I wouldn't expect a fighter from Glantri to be the same as one from Thyatis but I won't go so far as saying one is better than the other because of his homeland. That's usually a stereotype that seems to always be broken with players. This has been a Galwylin© Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ galwylin@airnet.net | ICQ #6755972 | AIM: Galwylin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 23:11:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Another Ludwig's speech At 06:42 PM 6/15/98 +0200, you wrote: >"Ahr ahr! These dashing menaces really make me feel in good mood. You see, they remind me of the old times when i still ruled the great Black Eagle Barony: apparently nothing has changed. I am still much hated and envied by my enemies, but, well, all great personalities are! And answering to the petty Danneleran, if my cousin really wants to talk to me, HE must come here to Glantri: i am not one of his lackeys nor subject to him (thanx the Holy Blade)! I AM A HERO!" >-Ludwig von Hendriks during a public interview The Black Eagle obviously doesn't understand what I was saying. Let me make it clear to you, Ludwig. Enjoy your status while it lasts, because I'm coming to get you, and there isn't a pit in New Kolland deep enough to hide you from me. I WILL find you, and then I will drag you through the Broken Lands, tied by your ankles to the back of my horse, and you will be paraded through Darokin and the Shires before we get you to Mirros. Then his Majesty will talk to you, and I'll stand over you to make sure you listen carefully. And once you're taken care of, I'm going to hunt down your former lackey and do the same to him. Karamekian justice will be served, and you are the main course. Sir Alexius Dannelaran *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 21:03:43 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Mike, in response to your using 3d6 or 4d6 to give players a better chance to perform skills, I'd suggest that you don't do it. In the Skills and Powers book, they drastically lowered the chance of success by using a base score, and applying a bonus to that base for high stats. The 50-60% average is right in there with that book. Staying with the d20 is just about perfectly balanced if characters have "low" stats (Like a 9-12 average). Later. Jesse. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 21:05:23 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D >I like it. A lot. I've always hated the AD+D stat amping, where a 16 barely gives you anything, and an Intelligence of 9 means that you are the village halfwit. This will go some way to correcting that. Cheerz >ROB Rob, check out the Proficiency system in Skills and Powers. You'll find something that's almost tailor-made for D&D I think. Later. Jesse. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 00:18:46 EDT From: CRlPTONITE@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - One Final Post >>CRIPTONITE said: >>I have been on this list for years. Actually there's only a few people that have been here as long as me. My point is I've seen this list go days without a post. A couple years ago there may have only been 5 posts in a week >>and 3 of those posts were from people just checking if the MML was still working. >Just out of curiosity, how long HAVE you been on the MML? I started late 1995 - early 1996, myself... >Geoff I think i signed on in 95. So it must have been around the same time as yourself. I was a solid lurker for a long time though, 6 months to a year. I was finally able to get WotI and understand exactly what everyone was talking about. I took the whole Alfheim downfall pretty hard. Is there anyway to find out when we signed up for the MML? I'm really curious now. Anyone know? Leroy? - --- -- --Criptonite *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #426 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, June 16 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 427 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves Re: [MYSTARA] - Midland Forest-cohabitation Re: [MYSTARA] - One Final Post Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Old One = Dark Powers (Gareth6) Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen Re: [MYSTARA] - Old One = Dark Powers (Gareth6) Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen Adri Varma Plateau (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Atruagin Plateau) Re: [MYSTARA] - Old One = Dark Powers (Gareth6) Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves Re: [MYSTARA] - Day of Dread (was Almanac/Glantri) Re: [MYSTARA] - Arik's Imprisonment Re: [MYSTARA] - Cure for Amputations? Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar's invasion Re: [MYSTARA] - Cure for Amputations? Re: [MYSTARA] - Cure for Amputations? Re: [MYSTARA] - Old One = Dark Powers (Gareth6) Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 00:43:36 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves In a message dated 98-06-15 06:33:50 EDT, Inconu@aol.com writes: >Actually if they attempt to pick a magical lock, they are penalized 50%. MMaster lockpicks would need only a few tries to get through. You allow multiple attempts? Then I definitely would want to play a thief in your campaign! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 00:43:37 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 6 : Gareth = an Old One In a message dated 98-06-15 07:02:50 EDT, Inconu@aol.com writes: >Rad never was a dark lord, but it has happend to Dark Lords before. It's a vvery rare occurance for anyone to escape from Ravenloft, but it's possible. So which dark lord has escaped from Ravenloft? That is, is there one who is known to have escaped? Simply disappearing could mean that he was destroyed, which wouldn't count for this purpose. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 00:43:39 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves In a message dated 98-06-15 07:31:04 EDT, Inconu@aol.com writes: >Thieves are difficult to role-play. Usually it takes an experienced role- pplayer to enjoy this class to the fullest extent. It's not as difficult as playing a druid or paladin, but it will be if the player can't find out how his profession can be useful. Of course the key rule to playing thieves is "Don't be stupid". Stealing from the party is a very bad idea, although neglecting to tell them about the jewels you picked from the bad guy's pocket may be considered fair. But the key point is that you must make yourself valuable to the party -- and there are many ways to do that, depending on which of your many skills you decide to emphasize. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 00:43:41 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves In a message dated 98-06-15 12:35:46 EDT, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no writes: >Pick Pockets >Not quite sure about this one..ideas? Okay -- how about permitting him to perform sleight of hand tricks that basically duplicate the effects of the "Cantrip" spell? While we are at it, I noticed that you left "Detect Noise" off the list. I suppose its "advanced ability" could be a sort of "sixth sense" -- even if the foes you are listening for are completely silent, a thief with this ability can still sense their presence. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 00:43:33 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Midland Forest-cohabitation In a message dated 98-06-15 05:35:31 EDT, herve@hotmail.com writes: >Half elf/orc, anyone? Not so unlikely on Mystara, which already has the N'djatwa (descendants of elves and ogres), who were described early on in the "Princess Ark" series. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 00:47:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - One Final Post =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= pontificated: >You've been on here that long Geoff? Wow, im impressed. IIRC I joined the list about the same time. The people I remeber posting at the time were Chtulhudrew, Fabrizio, Peter Balatz, David Azure, and Mischa Gelman. And maybe Jenni. Ofcourse, I was a lurker for a while. Maybe I should have stayed a lurker instead of spewing useless chit chat on this list? ;= P Nay, keep on doing it. I been spewing useless stuff for over 2 years too :) I just checked the archive, my first post was on Oct. 7, 95. I was just think couple of days ago that we haven't heard from Azure for a while. There was also someone called Sir George that post quite often when the post first started but disappeared for a long time. John Yu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 01:55:00 EDT From: BoBoII@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D In a message dated 98-06-15 10:44:56 EDT, you write: << he result would be from 4-20 which would eliminate a portion of the failure percentage. I believe the 1d20 method is the better method here, but that's just my opinion. But if you roll 6-6-6-1, your total is . . . 1. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 02:04:52 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old One = Dark Powers (Gareth6) In a message dated 98-06-15 13:41:12 EDT, azureghost@hotmail.com writes: >I have a thought to this... it said in the old Immortal Box set that the OOld Ones were as different to immortals as immortals are to mortals. So why have a sixth immortal sphere of influence when there shouldn't be one to begin with, the old ones are supposed to the immortal of immortals. If we go with the idea that there should be six classes, spheres, or whatever (corresponding to the four elemental planes plus the positive and negative material planes), then we could have the following: Mortal classes: Warrior/Fighter Rogue/Thief Wizard/Mage Priest/Cleric Psionicist/Mystic The sixth class, "Immortal", is of course not available to mortals.... Immortal Spheres: Energy Matter Thought Time Entropy Again, the sixth sphere, whatever we decide to call it, is not available to Immortals.... Old Ones: Who knows how they organize themselves? If they have six "types", then they are the ultimate beings -- but if they only have five, then there is something above them. Of course, we will never know the truth about that one.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 02:05:13 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D In a message dated 98-06-15 13:42:33 EDT, rmunch@easynet.co.uk writes: >The problem is when your average blacksmith, with a skill of 10, fails to make horseshoes half of the time... (Im usually against making proficiency checks entirely, i rule that a check is only required when something exceptional is being attempted. I think it even sez this somewhere...) For a blacksmith, making a horseshoe should be a "piece of cake" -- so he should get a positive modifier of +5 or +10 or even automatic success under normal conditions. An unmodified skill roll should be reserved for tasks that a proficient character would find moderately challenging -- thus the fact that a character with average ability scores would fail half the time would make sense. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 02:05:34 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen In a message dated 98-06-15 15:12:24 EDT, galwylin@airnet.net writes: >I understand your reasoning, but I just wanted to make sure we don't ccontinue with the idea that mages are from Glantri, elves are from Alfheim, halflings are from the Five Shires, etc. Do you see what I mean? ;> A more accurate way to depict the situation is this: Noble mages are from Glantri, noble elves are from Alfheim, noble (or at least "shirriff") halflings are from the Five Shires, etc. Characters whose class/national origins do not match these stereotypes grew up knowing that they were somewhere other than at the top of the social order in their home countries -- and in many cases this gives them more interesting personalities. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 02:05:35 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old One = Dark Powers (Gareth6) In a message dated 98-06-15 15:18:31 EDT, Inconu@aol.com writes: >Hmmm....would this be a Sphere equivalent to the Posistive Material Plane? VVery interesting concept. Yes, that is exactly what I am suggesting -- although in some other posts I do imply that the Positive Material Plane is something other than the source of "Goodness". After all, the Positive and Negative Material Planes are each in their own way hostile to life as we know it.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 02:05:20 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen In a message dated 98-06-15 14:28:51 EDT, eldaah@hotmail.com writes: >I think a 50/50 mix of sleep and magic missile would be a bit more eeffective.....most of the ethies are still 1st level. That's an average of eight potentially neutralized per casting..... It probably would be -- but I was going by something I read in some TSR publication that I cannot locate at present, which had the Mages and Elves in the Glantrian army all being taught "Magic Missile" as their main combat spell. Actually, I am surprised nobody mentioned range considerations -- but that is actually a matter of tactical maneuvering. I suppose that the Ethengarians would win if they can ensure that they are close enough to shoot their bows but too far away for the Glantrians to cast spells at them - -- but of course their foes would do their best to prevent such a situation from occurring. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 02:05:25 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen In a message dated 98-06-15 14:40:12 EDT, rmunch@easynet.co.uk writes: >Other, "lesser" magical nations abound - Thyatis (I dont like the idea of Thyatis being a magical powerhouse. Thyatis was a domain of fighters, basically. When Alphatia turned up they needed mages to balance it out.. i fail to see why there should be 20x as many mages in Thyatis as Glantri, even considering the vast disparity in size - i mean, we're talking about Flaemish/Alphatians here!). Darokin, Saragon, and all the elven kingdoms. I would imagine that each nation would differ in the type of magic that it emphasizes. Thyatis, for example, values combat effectiveness above all else, so that is how their wizards would be judged. Wizards who can decimate the enemy with fireballs or summon horrific monsters that are capable of taking on entire armies would be well respected, but subtler types such as Diviners or Illusionists would be rarer and receive far less respect. Nations that better appreciate the value of subtler magics may well be able to take advantage of the Thyatian blindness in this area. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 02:49:41 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Adri Varma Plateau (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Atruagin Plateau) In a message dated 98-06-15 18:41:42 EDT, michaelx.harvey@intel.com writes: >What (and where) is the Adri Varma Plateau? It is the plateau located to the northwest of Glantri. Other than that it is claimed by Hule, we have no official/canonical information about it. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 06:59:29 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old One = Dark Powers (Gareth6) In a message dated 6/16/98 2:13:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Kaviyd@aol.com writes: >Yes, that is exactly what I am suggesting -- although in some other posts I ddo imply that the Positive Material Plane is something other than the source >of "Goodness". After all, the Positive and Negative Material Planes are each >in their own way hostile to life as we know it.... Very true. In fact, the Positive Material plane can be deceiving, like the quest of becoming an Old One. How at first it seems to be a place to enrich your energy and rejuvenate and repair any injuries, but if too much time is spent there, it can become a deadly place. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 06:59:31 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves In a message dated 6/16/98 12:52:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Kaviyd@aol.com writes: >>Actually if they attempt to pick a magical lock, they are penalized 50%. MMMaster lockpicks would need only a few tries to get through. >You allow multiple attempts? Then I definitely would want to play a thief in your campaign! I don't believe a failing roll should mean it's impossible to accomplish, just that it will take more time than usual. I've had a couple of campaigns where a party was running out of time one way or another and the thief just had one more lock to pick or one more trap to remove. I has made for intense role- playing in the past, so I've enjoyed employing that rule in the past. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 06:59:31 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves In a message dated 6/15/98 11:06:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, malacoda@lesbois.com writes: >>Hey Leroy, can I play in one of your games? >Sure. Hell, everyone's invited! Great, who's up for a MML role-playing weekend? Can you fit 200 people in the house Leroy? - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 10:03:47 +0000 (GMT) From: Gordon McCormick Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 10:22:21 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #427 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 68e22e5fe6ec9d292a8d3d0e88a0f106 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen >>Kill em all! Umn, no, wait, calm down...halflings are OK, not that bad (gnashing of teeth at thoughts of Gaz8)...I used to like halflings until that Gaz...again, it was a "here's the Hin, and they could kick you ass!" style of writing...really didn't like it... >I liked that Gaz for that very reason. Halflings have always gotten the short end of the stick (heh). That Gaz made them at least more than the comic relief of demi-humans in their own country. Dwarves, elves, heck.. even orcs all get their share of the spotlight but let the hin share in it... To clarify, it's not the idea of Halflings having power that I object to it was the style of the writing. I can't read Bungo's Bad Day seriously I'm afraid... And if I need another reminder of PC's being nice to the old Hin or they'll be beaten up...sigh.... gordon, who'll hide now and cultivate hatred of Gaz 8 on my own :) :) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 10:03:47 +0000 (GMT) From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen Galwylin said: >Rob wrote: >>So, IMHO, in terms of rankings, Glantrians are doing pretty well ((especially >>when Alphatia is sunk and the competition is replaced by the Karameikan School of Magecraft, who are like a *little* Alphatia with Terari). They are jointly at the top - and more importantly, they are visible, unlike tthe >>Honour Islanders, who live on a little secluded island, and Herath, which iis >>traditionally isolationist and secretive. >I understand your reasoning, but I just wanted to make sure we don't continue with the idea that mages are from Glantri, elves are from Alfheim, halflings are from the Five Shires, etc. Do you see what I mean? ;> Yup,yup,yup. I have halflings in Karameikos, Isle of Dawn, some parts of Thyatis, southern Darokin...elves are everywhere but secretive, some scary mages live in Karameikos and Darokin, it's just they don't run the country and have legal rights to torture dwarves :) And mages aren't the only people in Glantri! And some mundaners quite like the country they live in...(even if it could do with a couple of tweakings in the law...) gordon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 21:01:10 +1000 From: Anakin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Mike Harvey wrote: >I haven't tried using skills in my D&D game, but I plan to introduce them in the next session. Before I do I have a question: >In D&D, characters rolled with straight 3d6 do not typically have amazing attributes. An "average" attribute of 10 has a 50% chance of success using the standard 1d20 skill resolution. However, even a fairly decent attribute of 13 only has a 65% success rate; few characters are going to have skills that exceed 60-70%, except magic users and thieves who are lucky enough to have lots of skills associated with their prime requisite. >I was thinking of using 3d6 to resolve attribute and skill rolls, instead of 1d20. This gives much better chances for skills in the 13-14 range, and much worse for low skills of 7-8. Has anyone tried a system like this? How did it work? >I realize that 3d6 constricts the range to 3-18. This is easily solved by rolling 4d6 and ignoring all sixes, giving a result of 0-20 centered precisely on 10. >Mike >---------------------------------------------------------------------- bing@iccom.com (formerly mike@cs.pdx.edu) Mike Harvey >HTTP://www.iccom.com/usrwww/bing/home.html Beaverton, Oregon >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. Well here goes with my 5 cents worth, I think the system you originally described would work fine, characters with average stats would start off with an average chance at success in using skills related to those stats. Especially if they are first level characters, remember these characters are just starting out in the world and will not have great skill in any area. To allow some improvement for skills is what I use in my campaigns, when characters gain new skill slots they can spend them in skills they already have increasing there ability to perfom those tasks. Anakin - -- ICQ #12697398 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 21:07:40 +1000 From: Anakin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves Rob wrote: >BTW - who plays thieves out there? I'd like to see how u do - because I want to play a thief, but given past experience there is little chance a thief would be any use whatsoever... tips? >Cheerz >ROB >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. I have played thieves in the past an thoroughly enjoyed them although it does come down to the style of the individual DM. If you are playing in a game with a Dm who enjoys Hack and slash and allows no room for role playing or subtelty then thieves are of absolutely no use to you. However if your Dm enjoys some good roleplaying in a character then thieves are great, you just have to be allowed the room to play them. Anakin - -- ICQ #12697398 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 06:37:34 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Day of Dread (was Almanac/Glantri) >>After WotI DoD is a regular feature of the Mystaran year, but something >>similar existed also before WotI. If you look at the calendars given in >>some GAZ, you'll see that on 28 Kaldmont there's a 3% chance that all magic >>fails all over Mystara. >> >Those stats would actually mean that there would've been 3 DoD's in the last >century, and 30 DoD's since the year 0. Actually this is not so the chance to have one is interdependant with the chance NOT to have one (97%). So although just saying that there were 30 occurences since AC0 is inaccurate there may have been 0 there mayhave been 100 both of these results are possible just statistically very improbable (math is .97^n. where n is number years for one event in that time). THerefor all we have to decide is how LUCKY Mystara was in that time a purely personal choice and if such days did happen how widespread were its effects. The important p[oint is how many studied the RADIENCE before Etienne/RAD. if none therewas NO drain for those several hundred years! <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 06:49:21 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Arik's Imprisonment >Now, I had Noland and Nemesis imprison Arik in a special place. A place where powers could keep his kind in check. Where better than Ravenloft. Well since he`s been around for so long why hasn`t he just created a plane with the rule(s) `Except for myself, NO mortal or Immortal magic works upon this plane` .there may need to be further rules to eliminate Immortal abilities, but that for individual GM to decide ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 06:58:50 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Cure for Amputations? >OTOH the accident of Moglai Khan is much simpler cured. We only need his corpse and a cleric level 12. >Looking for "Moglai Khan - The Resurrection", coming in this theatre... IIRC didnt WotI list the ability gains of clerics of RAD what would the do about restoring the losses to Glantri due to war? Another thing would they be looked upon with more tolerance than other clerics within Glantri or with outright hatred for daring to interfere ? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 07:02:20 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar's invasion >The horse warriors and brataks from the Sea of Grass are both the best riders and the best archers all over the world. >Jamuga Khan There`s a group of ELDAR who`d like a word with you outside you smelly ethie (NOTE this IS a joke dont anyone take it as a personal slur, except Jamuga of course) <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 07:03:27 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Cure for Amputations? ><< So my idea abot a scroll does work, for can anyone see why Jagger WWOULDN`T have just such an item? <;-P >> >He wouldn't be able to cast a clerical spell from scroll... What about the mage version? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 07:07:54 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Cure for Amputations? >And going by D&D rules, we have the advantage that "Heal" is a 9th level Magic-User spell available to any Magic-User of level 21+. So all Jaggar would need to do to get is arm back is negotiate with one of the remaining high level Princes.... Or have it on a scrool , or negotiate with any high level mage who isn`t embroiled within Glantrian politics or... the list just goes on and on doesn`t it as I said when I first started on this topic its fairly likely that Jagger was fine within days <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 07:16:16 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old One = Dark Powers (Gareth6) >a huge plot designed by the old ones to recruit the (best of the best) of Immortals Old Ones MIB that`s the connection. Naw that was the best of the best of the best is seems Immortals just don`t cut it <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 07:21:49 PDT From: "Tim Ryan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves I'm presently running a campaign with a thief in it, so I figured i'd throw in my 2cp.. >>" Its magic that brings the thief class low. A simple continual light spell stops thieves from sneaking around within its area of effect." >True everyone does have this spell, and so do a few of the thief's friends. Carry a pebble with a continual darkness spell cast on it in a small secret compartment in you belt. It will counter the light spell, causing confusion until a second light source can be used and you have a chance to hide. This also assumes the thief doesn't use magic. A thief with the properly chosen ("You guys can have the magic armor, i just want these boots") magic items can be extremely effective. Rings, etc. of invisibility, elven cloaks and boots (or boots of levitation), cloak of displacement, and many other things can expand the thief's abilities, even in the face of magic. Add to this fact that the thief in the campaign i'm presently running has a libram of identification which is used to identify most of the treasure the party finds.. >>"Climb walls is pretty naff when compared with fly, polymorph self, levitate, and when walls are covered with grease. TThat is a rough one. If it is a wall of a house you are going to >hit, lite the grease on fire in the confusion you can enter a door >opened in haste, grab the target item, then get out fast. IIf it a wall you just need to get over, try climbing claws or even spikes (wrapped well to absorb sound, or a silence spell from a friendly near by priest may work) Who covers their walls with grease? Ick.. That aside, spells have their drawbacks too. Duration and detectability being some of the larger ones, but lack of versatility is in there too. Mind you, combining spells with thieving abilities is a very nice trick (and one of the reasons the thief's ability to use scrolls is there, IMHO) >>Detect invisible spots thieves (when playing Planescape, don't even bbother being a thief - >just about everything gets detect invisible permanently). Detect invisibility spots _invisible_ thieves, but not hidden ones, it's not truesight. >>Open locks doesn't open wizard locks So what? Neither does a fighters' sword or a cleric's turn undead ability. If you're running into _that_ many wizard locked doors, you're either in a wizards' inner sanctum (in which case you should have your own mage along ANYWAY) or the DM is trying to clue you into the fact that he doesn't want you going that way. Wizard locks shouldn't be very common in most games, they're an annoyance to normal building operations ("Sir, i hate to interrupt your spell research, but the cleaning lady needs to get into the dungeon") and unless the mage casting it is also the owner of the area in question, who wants to let some mage have access to your secret vault whenever he wants? >>Finding traps is OK - but it takes a g e s to check for traps - a trap in the middle of a corridor isn't going to be noticed, unless the thief is scouring the corridor with a fine tooth comb (and taking 3 hours to search 50 yards of corridor...). Even a simple pit trap with poisoned spikes will kill a thief, because the thief will just blunder into it, because it takes so long to find traps... Thus you give the thief an opportunity to 'casually' spot traps but with a hefty minus (-50%?), this lets experienced thieves spot 'Ye olde pit trappe', but the younger ones might blunder into it if they're not paying attention. >>And of course, if the trap is magical (the infamous Glyph of Warding, which priests might as well cast on EVERYTHING, because they can) then this is halved. Even with 95% F/RT, a couple of Glyphs will prevent thieves from breaking and entering... II let thief's have there normal chances to detect these traps, but only half to disarm them. Once found a dispel magic scroll or a call upon the party spell caster to remove it. I take the same approach, and if you're running into _that_ many glyphs, see the notes on wizard lock above.. Tim Ryan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #427 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 13:23:45 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #428 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 26a0147a1ba17f665d9e7e91f9456b5f mystara-digest Tuesday, June 16 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 428 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves Re: [MYSTARA] - Some new kits for Mystara in D&D format Re: [MYSTARA] - Jaggars Evilness [MYSTARA] - Encyclopedia of Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen Re: [MYSTARA] - Atruaghin Plateau Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Old One = Dark Powers (Gareth6) Re: [MYSTARA] - Another Ludwig's speech Re: [MYSTARA] - Old One = Dark Powers (Gareth6) Re: [MYSTARA] - Another Ludwig's speech Re: [MYSTARA] - Old One = Dark Powers (Gareth6) Re: [MYSTARA] - Some new kits for Mystara in D&D format Re: [MYSTARA] - Encyclopedia of Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen Re: [MYSTARA] - Map inconsistencies Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D [MYSTARA] - Clerics of Rad (was: Cure for Amputations?) Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves Re: [MYSTARA] - Old One = Dark Powers (Gareth6) [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Gaming group structure (was: spellcasting and Bards) Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics of Rad (was: Cure for Amputations?) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 07:50:08 PDT From: "Tim Ryan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves >I like thieves too, but they are darned diffycult to use. I see it as a DMs job to make thieves useful in the party. It's a DM's job to help make _everyone_ useful in the party..=) >>Nowadays in the campaigns around here the thief class is just a joke. Scouting became described as "sending the thief in to get eaten alive while the rest of the party sneaks up and gets the drop on the bad guys". I'm running an EXTREMELY low magic Karameikos campaign where there is a party thief (and much benefit of the doubt on my part) where the thief is I think holding his own quite happily. But thats only after a conscious effort by me to give the poor thief a break... >My own extreme low magic Karameikos campaign* have lots of room for a thief, but again it is all dependent on the master. Myself I have allowed for some houserules: The first of these can be pretty well summed up in one of the 'optional rules' for pickpocketing (AD&D? i forget). Essentially, you give the thief a bonus/penalty based on the relative levels of those involved. (5%/level i believe) This gives an experienced thief no problem when picking up money from the minor merchants in the town square, but makes it harder for him to try and steal the rings off the fingers of an archmage. The third (MS/hide) can also be put under this category, but i don't in my campaigns, as it inhibits the thief's ability to backstab powerful NPC's.. >2) If he breaks in somewhere to pick infomation or burgle, he may be misidentified as someone working there. Example: he is inside an office and suddenly the door opens (the thief then fails his hide roll) and in comes the owner, who assumes that the thief is a servant, who is in a place where he shouldn't be. The owner graps the thief and fires him(!), calls his guards and throws him out. Interesting. I'd see it more as a 'kit'-type ability, though, rather than a thief ability. >The general idea is that the thief character can get away with a lot of things, as long as it does not involve important NPCs, in that case, his abilities work like standard. Second to enhance the thief, then create scenes where he has a chance to use his abilities or make them magical abilities. How about a pick magical lock skill or hide from detection magic and infravision skill. Backstab could be >enhanced by Find Weakess skill, that allows the thief to find the >enemys weak spot and hit him there for double damage and gain >personal emnity from that creature. Would you really need a specific 'pick magic lock' skill? If you allow it, why not just hitch it to the normal skill, at a penalty. As far as hiding from detection magic, i have an inherent problem with that, but hiding from infravision is doable, especially if the thief has infravision and/or knows the target he's hiding from does. I don't really see Find weakness as useful or a 'good thing', though perhaps because the way it's worded here implies it can be done with every hit. Backstabs are attacks from surprise on vulnerable areas, not some kind of 'auto-crit'.. Tim Ryan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 08:01:59 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves >Thieves are crap - i think everyone agrees that. Your wrong there it just depends on how the campaign is managed, any city interactions are where thieves shine because thats where they work. In AD&D its easy to see this what with proficiencies such as info gathyer and local history, OD&D is more of a problem though since the basic abilities of thieves are so small percentage wise when compared to the firepower available to other classes. So as usual it comes down to roleplaying, any GM rewards that dont they? the thief by their nature has to be someone who can talk to people in order to gain information else how do you know which house doesn`t have a dog? also OD&D thieves get 80% RL at 4TH level so He`s the one who gets to understand all the wierd ancient scripts useful in dungeon delving of course as the following shows. THIEF ¬It`s written in ancient Asdewlian, weren`t they supposed to be poor stonemasons, but were reknowned for their poisons?` even if he`s just made it up the PARTY now considers him a vital member again just cos of one bit of knowledge. anyway any sensible party plays to the strengths of all of its members , the smart mage makes the thief invisible for his scouting Knowing that the favour is returned in melle by an invisible backstab to the mages foe >BTW - who plays thieves out there? I'd like to see how u do - because I want to play a thief, but given past experience there is little chance a thief would be any use whatsoever... tips? Guess what I play thieves, admittedly in AD&D where its much easier. However in OD&D try getting a thief to get levels of mastery in dagger if you use those rules, many dont,talk to the GM to see what sort of campaign its gonna be, if citybased agree on a background of knowledge that is yours alone due to your contacts etc if lvl10+ get lots of scrolls and use them but mainly become the party spokesperson, make the deals, strike the bargains etc basically ROLEPLAY your socks off try to avoid fights by talking any decent GM will modify things due to Player eloquence much more thanthat due to a lucky good stat If all of this fails to work find out your companoins weaknessess and plan ways to use this against them secretly, with the intention of rescuing them later of course they`ll be extreemly grateful and if done correctlytheir foes will owe you a favour too Remember though tryto keep it simple if possible the more complex it gets the harder to control it thats the real point take control of the party Your a RAKEnot a thief so by definition your a gentleman <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 08:26:55 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Some new kits for Mystara in D&D format >I was thinking about that after I sent the post. I agree with your point that seeing a production with illusions might end up showing nothing to some ;) Doesn`t this depend upon what you as aGm say thata successful save versus an illusion actually does? IMC the illusion is percieved as such but is still there you just notice the inconsistencies which is why when you tell someone else they get +4 on their save. BTW why would you want to disbelieve these illusions anyway I go to the cinema or theatre and have a suspension of disbelief as do most others, so if you dont want to disbelieve you dont get a save ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 08:38:47 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Jaggars Evilness >Really, its just a PR move. Glantri wants to look accepting (especially >when they need something) but making you feel welcomed is another matter. Placing a ban on cleric really is more unrealistic than making laws of what they can and can't do. Especially when those laws make their method of operation outlawed. So what you`r saying, maybe, is that clerics will be driven underground in order to preach their own particular brand of faith. sounds like business as usual in Glantri to me (Hello Mr cleric of halav how`d you like to join the 10,000 Fists Of Kahn? you`ve go 3 mins. before they come to take you to the tower of sighs so think quickly) <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 11:39:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: [MYSTARA] - Encyclopedia of Mystara? An idea came up a few months ago about an encyclopedia of Mystara, detailing the nations and peoples of our beloved setting. Unless this has been taken off-list as a separate project (and please say if it has!) I assume it has stalled. So..why don't we go back to this idea, providing a source of info for newbies to the setting (and to the list for that matter) and also for those of us without every canon publication (I know little about the Broken Lands or Savage Coast and such a source would help give me the basics so I could understand posts about them better). I don't know how in-depth we need go, but a paragraph or so on each of the major nations, personalities (including immortals) and subcultures (ex. Pearl Islander,Ochalean,Hattian) would be a good start IMO. I'm sure we can find an 'expert' on each topic from within the lists' membership IF someone is willing to go through all the organization work. I don't remember if this was what stalled the idea originally, but for it to work we need someone in an editing/compilation/directing capacity. Any takers? "I was determined and dedicated. I worked hard in the weight room all summer. And I ate a lot." - Oklahoma State football player Jevon Langford, on gaining 60 pounds in one summer *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 08:48:59 PDT From: "Tim Ryan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves >>Actually if they attempt to pick a magical lock, they are penalized 50%. >>Master lockpicks would need only a few tries to get through. YYou allow multiple attempts? Then I definitely would want to play a thief in your campaign! House policy around here is to allow multiple attempts as well, but each attempt takes twice as long.. This represents that a good thief will eventually figure out the trick of any given lock. Tim Ryan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 08:59:59 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen >Okay, the Elves of Glantri are only mediocre horsemen -- they are trained in riding but have no special advantages from horseback as Ethengarians do. However, they do have one big ace in the hole -- the fact that most of them are level 1 or better Mages and thus can cast at least one Magic Missile spell per battle. It is that ability >and not any special ability at archery or horsemanship that makes them almost the equals of Ethengarians in combat. Actually in this situation sleep cast upon the horses would have a much more dramatic effect as an entire charge is broken by falling over oneanother. then when the ethies are waking up their mounts you countercharge just behind your arrowstorm. Target the animals an ethie off a horse is a lot easier to kill just like any other mounted warrior. anything you can bring to bear to agitate the animals is also great, I once saw a charge halted by a griffon flyby who`d all been prot vs norm missiles. I`ve personally used catapults whose loads have been small shot with darknees/con darkness cast upon them followed by fire its great fun to watch as perfectly straight formations crumble. Remember unmounted mounted troops are a waste for your opponent try to giv him as many as possible ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 18:06:11 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Atruaghin Plateau At 15.28 15/06/98 -0700, Mike Harvey wrote: WWhat (and where) is the Adri Varma Plateau? It's a huge plateau (surprise, surprise!) and it's located north-west of Glantri and north of Sind. So far it's undetailed, apart from Bruce's mentioning wild saguaros (BTW, what the HECK is a SAGUARO? a cactus?) and Steve Wilson description of Sandmen of the plateau and their underground complex. >I have a question regarding the plateau upon which the Atruaghin clans live. Does the gazetteer describe it's geology? If it is a giant sheet of limestone it would be a great location for an underdark-style campaign with lost cities, subterranean seas, etc. (while the Atruaghins above are completely oblivious.) No description of its geology that i remember, but then, i only read GAZ14 once and it was some 5 years ago. Pity: i've always thought it was a good gazetteer, especially if you plan an Atruaghin based or centered campaign (never seen Last of the Mohicans?), but it's more a PLayer's gaz than a DM's one. I also think that it would have been better if John Nephew had written it or contributed somehow.. >A volcanic or sandstone plateau would likely be solid, though it could have buried something I suppose. Does the gazetteer shed any light on this? I am thinking about developing something there for my campaign, but would rather avoid a conflict with "canon" if possible, and I don't have the Atruaghin Gaz. The plateau was magically created by Atruaghin as last of his tests to become immortal: he erected it from the plains. So this means there must be a huge vacuum left by the earth that rose, and here you can place a great underdark campaign... but beware not to alter too much the "amerindian" flavor of the campaign.. DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 12:18:08 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D On Mon, 15 Jun 1998, Jesse LaBranche wrote: >>I like it. A lot. I've always hated the AD+D stat amping, where a 16 barely gives you anything, and an Intelligence of 9 means that you are the village halfwit. This will go some way to correcting that. One A/oD&D thing I never understood was this: Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 13:23:45 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #428 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 26a0147a1ba17f665d9e7e91f9456b5f Is there any sort of scale that strength is measured on? Maybe the Immortal's 100 point scale is a good idea. I think about this: Is an 18 STR Troll stronger than an 18 STR Human? What about an 18 STR Hill Giant? Every other ability seems to be measured on the same scale, but sheer strength seems so out of place. Of course that 18/** concept on AD&D is about as lame as they get. Is it DM's choice for a racial "centering" point? i.e. A 15 STR Troll = 17 STR Human? So on the Immortals' scale, 15 STR Troll = 17 STR. 18 STR Troll = 20 STR I use extended ability scores on my campaign. It is possible to get above 18 strength if you're not human (i.e. A Storm Giant PC can have a strength of 36, relative to humans.) Am I just crazy, or has someone else seen this problem? Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 12:20:57 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old One = Dark Powers (Gareth6) On Tue, 16 Jun 1998 Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: >Who knows how they organize themselves? If they have six "types", then they are the ultimate beings -- but if they only have five, then there is something above them. Of course, we will never know the truth about that one.... Who cares? When you acheive Old One status, you win :) Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 09:27:11 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Another Ludwig's speech >[Late in the night the corpse of a faceless man has been found floating in >one of the canals. From the garments and the symbols on his armor, many passerbys recognized him as the great adventurer called "Angel of Steele". >His visage had been ripped off and no clear identification could take place. On his left forearms the constabularies found a branded symbol: a >Black Eagle...] On a lighter note ther seems to be a new ultrarealist artist amongst us. His `Shadow of an ex Baron on BArroomwall` is recieving much praise. Von hendriks himself has been unavailable for comment and the cause of the mysterious fire which must have broken out mere seconds after the artist finishe his work ha been found to have caught one poor soul who was apparently tied up with rope of Hinnish make. And now SP{ORTS!! <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 09:33:32 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old One = Dark Powers (Gareth6) >Has anyone considered that the Sphere of Principium may in fact be the combined 4 elemental spheres? Think about it, in the Gold Box, and in WotI, it implies that though Entropy is not directly opposed by any other >sphere, but it does say that the 4 elemental spheres oppose its destruction of the multiverse. Check out PC1 for another slant on this when a party is told history of Mystaraverse (I like this word has it been TM ot RTM yet?) from the point of view of thefair folk who claim to once have been immortals ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 18:37:27 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Another Ludwig's speech Excerpt from a scroll written by Sir Alexius Danneleran and delivered to Lord von Hendriks: >Enjoy your status while it lasts, because I'm coming to get you, and there isn't a pit in New Kolland deep enough to hide you from me. I WILL find you, and then I will drag you through the Broken Lands, tied by your ankles to the back of my horse, and you will be paraded through Darokin and the Shires before we get you to Mirros. Then his Majesty will talk to you, and I'll stand over you to make sure you listen carefully. And once you're taken care of, I'm going to hunt down your former lackey and do the same to him. >Karamekian justice will be served, and you are the main course. "What a theatrical speech, my poor Danneleran! I've always thought you undertook the wrong career, and now i'm sure of it: you should have been an actor... a comic actor... Ahr, ahr, ahr! "You need more than a pompous gross speech to frighten me: you need guts! And so far you've shown me you lack not only guts but even the attributes that qualify you as a member of the human race! A sleeping kobold is more menacing than you, ahr ahr ahr! "Come and get me... if you still know how to wield a blade, after all those pints.." - -excerpt from a scroll written by Ludwig von Hendriks directed to Sir Alexius Danneleran DM ;) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 09:38:55 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old One = Dark Powers (Gareth6) >Considering the dangers of the Dimension of Vortex he should be around level 30 or higher. So your saying that this new immortal is a heirarch? actually theres no prob;lem with that perse hes just never been interested in mystara befor e now. Maybe his homeworld was somehow affected by WotI and hes been sent to scout out by that worlds Immortals! Just thought I`d offer another way for him to evolve without having to be an old one <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 11:46:44 -0500 From: "Galwylin" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Some new kits for Mystara in D&D format paul dooley wrote: >you tell someone else they get +4 on their save. BTW why would you want to disbelieve these illusions anyway I go to the cinema or theatre and have a suspension of disbelief as do most others, so if you dont want to disbelieve you dont get a save I think there's a phrase that fits here. There's always a critic ;> This has been a Galwylin© Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ galwylin@airnet.net | ICQ #6755972 | AIM: Galwylin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 18:48:35 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Encyclopedia of Mystara? At 11.39 16/06/98 -0400, Mischa wrote: >An idea came up a few months ago about an encyclopedia of Mystara, detailing the nations and peoples of our beloved setting. So..why don't we go back to this idea, providing a source of info for newbies to the setting (and to the list for that matter) and also for those of us without every canon publication. I don't know how in-depth we need go, but a paragraph or so on each of the major nations, personalities (including immortals) and subcultures (ex. Pearl Islander,Ochalean,Hattian) would be a good start IMO. I'm sure we can find an 'expert' on each topic from within the lists' membership IF someone is willing to go through all the organization work. I don't remember if this was what stalled the idea originally, but for it to work we need someone in an editing/compilation/directing capacity. Any takers? I think it's a great idea Mischa, even though it could really take a long to develop... But if i got it right, what you wanna do has already been done with the PWA and the Mystara Net Almanac (Shawn has used articles from the almanac to introduce the various countries of Mystara in his homepage, for example)... Am i getting it wrong? DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 13:02:44 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen << Do we want a) to make the Ethengarians the most powerful characters in the known world? >> I don't have any problem with that. :-) << b) to make every people interesting and powerful in their own way? I prefer b. To do this we'll need to modify the rules. >> O.k., if you insist on this point! << 1)Ethengarians should be the most powerful horse warriors. >> O.k. << 2)Glantrians should be the most powerful mages. >> What about the Alphatians? << 3)Elves should be the most powerful archers. >> Only among and walking on the trees! << 4)Halflings should be a bunch of wimps? maybe not, any good ideas for these guys? >> What kind of dirty game are you playing, man? Let your fingers off the hin, ot I will have to send the Ethengars after you. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 13:02:46 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Map inconsistencies << > A white minority has spent centuries conning us into thinking a white skin >makes people superior, even though the only thing it really does is make them more affected by ultraviolet rays and wrinkles - Gloria Steinem White skin should be a 5 point disadvantage, which means white people have 5 more points to spend on ability scores and skills.. Maybe not.. ;P >> It means a +5 in generating vitamine D, which is created through sunlight. A blackskinned human in northern Norway will get some problems. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 10:03:55 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D >With 4d5, the average is 12. >John Yu Context gave 6=0 eg 0-5 which is one less than 1-6 average IS 2.5 *4=10 <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 10:07:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Dominique Rivard Subject: [MYSTARA] - Clerics of Rad (was: Cure for Amputations?) - ---paul dooley wrote: >IIRC didnt WotI list the ability gains of clerics of RAD what would the >do about restoring the losses to Glantri due to war? Another thing would >they be looked upon with more tolerance than other clerics within Glantri or with outright hatred for daring to interfere ? Is there any clerics of Rad somewhere on Mystara? == Tharquil's French D&D Homepage at http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/5201 _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 10:10:48 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves >Actually I attended to a game session with 11 players. It was not exactly >the ideal gaming situation IMO. I wonder what the DM though about it... Interesting point in its own right but talked about no end before? if not I find 4 players + GM is about ideal size does anyone have any comments? <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 10:20:22 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old One = Dark Powers (Gareth6) >Old Ones: >Who knows how they organize themselves? If they have six "types", then they are the ultimate beings -- but if they only have five, then there is something above them. Of course, we will never know the truth about that one.... IIRC thechinese dont call quarks quarks but stratons saying that maybe theres something more to dicover yet, so maybe old one is just the highest strata currently understood ( Wooden Spoon champion 1996,1997) <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 19:20:34 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Gaming group structure (was: spellcasting and Bards) On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, paul dooley wrote: >>Actually I attended to a game session with 11 players. It was not eexactly >>the ideal gaming situation IMO. I wonder what the DM though about it... >Interesting point in its own right but talked about no end before? if not I find 4 players + GM is about ideal size does anyone have any comments? <;-P I agree. Most of the campaigns i'm involved in these days have 4-5 players +GM. This leaves more room for emphasis on characters and roleplaying, yet the group is large enough to use in regular scenarios. In the old days we were 7-8 player +GM, but at that time we only did dungeon crawling and random encouners ;P Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 19:23:05 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics of Rad (was: Cure for Amputations?) On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Dominique Rivard wrote: >Is there any clerics of Rad somewhere on Mystara? IMO, No. The only reference to Clerics of Rad is in WotI. IMC the closest thing you get to clerics of RAd are his Shepherds. They aren't clerics as such, but have a similar role. I don't really think Rad cares much for clerics. After all clerics used to burn mages in Laterre... Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #428 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, June 16 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 429 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Map inconsistencies Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen Re: [MYSTARA] - Encyclopedia of Mystara? RE: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: [MYSTARA] - The last moments before The Great Rain of Fire. (FanFic) Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen Re: [MYSTARA] - Old One = Dark Powers (Gareth6) Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar's invasion Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen Re: [MYSTARA] - Another Ludwig's speech Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: [MYSTARA] - One Final Post Re: [MYSTARA] - Day of Dread (was Almanac/Glantri) Re: [MYSTARA] - Day of Dread (was Almanac/Glantri) Re: [MYSTARA] - Encyclopedia of Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 19:26:16 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Map inconsistencies On Tue, 16 Jun 1998 JamugaKhan@aol.com wrote: ><< > A white minority has spent centuries conning us into thinking a white skin >>makes people superior, even though the only thing it really does is make them more affected by ultraviolet rays and wrinkles - Gloria Steinem >White skin should be a 5 point disadvantage, which means white people have 5 more points to spend on ability scores and skills.. Maybe not.. ;P >> >It means a +5 in generating vitamine D, which is created through sunlight. A blackskinned human in northern Norway will get some problems. Good point. Someone mentioned that to me after I told them about making that comment. I guess I don't have a good explaination for white supremacy then :P Blacks in northern Norway should probably be careful about what they eat to get enough Vitamin D. Ok, this is Off-topic, back to Mystara then :) Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 19:30:14 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen On Tue, 16 Jun 1998 JamugaKhan@aol.com wrote: >1)Ethengarians should be the most powerful horse warriors. >> >O.k. ><< 2)Glantrians should be the most powerful mages. >> >What about the Alphatians? They should probably be just as powerful. They aren't around anymore though. I think the NACE wizards should be considerably weaker than the HW Alphatian ones. ><< 3)Elves should be the most powerful archers. >> >Only among and walking on the trees! ok :) ><< 4)Halflings should be a bunch of wimps? maybe not, any good ideas for tthese guys? >What kind of dirty game are you playing, man? Let your fingers off the hin, ot I will have to send the Ethengars after you. Dirty? Khan, you need to see a psychiatrist. :) "Houston, we have a problem!" - Earthworm Jim and Peter to Dr Houston. Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 19:33:19 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Encyclopedia of Mystara? On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, DM wrote: >At 11.39 16/06/98 -0400, Mischa wrote: >>An idea came up a few months ago about an encyclopedia of Mystara, detailing the nations and peoples of our beloved setting. So..why don't we go back to this idea, providing a source of info for newbies to the setting (and to the list for that matter) and also for those of us without every canon publication. I don't know how in-depth we need go, but a paragraph or so on each of the major nations, personalities (including immortals) and subcultures (ex. Pearl Islander,Ochalean,Hattian) would be a good start IMO. I'm sure we can find an 'expert' on each topic from within the lists' membership IF someone is willing to go through all the organization work. I don't remember if this was what stalled the idea originally, but for it to work we need someone in an editing/compilation/directing capacity. Any takers? >I think it's a great idea Mischa, even though it could really take a long to develop... But if i got it right, what you wanna do has already been done with the PWA and the Mystara Net Almanac (Shawn has used articles from the almanac to introduce the various countries of Mystara in his homepage, for example)... Am i getting it wrong? I too, like this idea. I think it should be different from the Almanac though. However, we could borrow some sections from these products, if the Alamanc crew doesn't mind? I don't want to volunteer as head of such a product though. Anyone, up for the challenge? Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 12:09:59 -0700 From: "Harvey, MichaelX" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D On Tuesday, June 16, 1998 4:01 AM, Anakin [SMTP:anakin@uq.net.au] wrote: TTo allow some improvement for skills is what I use in my campaigns, when characters gain new skill slots they can spend them in skills they already have increasing there ability to perfom those tasks. One reason for my proposed change was to help players increase skills if they wanted to. For most characters, spending a single skill slot gives anywhere from 45% to 55% chance of success, but additional slots add a trifling 5% chance. Imagine an "average" fighter who wants to be a skilled tracker. He sinks all four starting skill-slots into "Tracking" and gets a skill level of 12, with a 60% chance of success. This seems quite low considering he's spent his whole life training in this one skill. Using the 4d6-4 method he now has a 76% success rate, which seems more reasonable for all those skill levels invested. FWIW, This table shows the relative chances of success between 4d6-4 and 1d20: Skill 4d6-4 1d20 - ----- ------- ------- 0 0.077 0.000 1 0.386 5.000 2 1.157 10.000 3 2.701 15.000 4 5.401 20.000 5 9.722 25.000 6 15.895 30.000 7 23.920 35.000 8 33.565 40.000 9 44.367 45.000 10 55.633 50.000 11 66.435 55.000 12 76.080 60.000 13 84.105 65.000 14 90.278 70.000 15 94.599 75.000 16 97.299 80.000 17 98.843 85.000 18 99.614 90.000 19 99.923 95.000 20 100.000 100.000 Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 16:30:49 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The last moments before The Great Rain of Fire. (FanFic) << ... they may have tried to duplicate exactly the old Beagle's engines. (We have come to a consensus that they were matter-antimatter) The beagle crashed because the engines were not stable in mystaraspace, possibly because magical energy has a disruptive effect on pair particle creation. (matter and antimatter can't exist in magical fields, like those created by the world shield) Benekander may have figured this out, and forcibly shut the engines down to prevent a catastophe in Mystara's upper atmosphere. However, this caused the Beagle to crash. >> IIRC Benekander was NOT the chief engineer of the Beagle. Please don't promote him afterwards. << Years later, Blackmoor had advanced to the level where technology dominated over magic. Rafiel: "Why? What did we do? Is this the afterlife? Who am I? Why am I here? CAN SOMEBODY HELP ME?? Is this a dream? NO! Not another explosion! Those elves.. Driven underground.. Can I help? Must remember survival training.. Wait.. I can remember.. Agh. pain.. I can feel again.. I can see myself, I'm glowing.. maybe radiation burns.. But I feel fine. I have to help those Elves.. Good story! I like it. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 16:30:53 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen << I disagree. Glantri is a wizard magnet. Since the days of Alexander Glantri, the most powerful mages of the KW have been drawn toward Glantri. Partly because it is the best place to meet other mages and find magical lore and expertise, but also because of the Radience. This is why the mages of Glantri are the most powerful ones. >> Bah! Those whimpy little illusionists! Not a single wizard level 36! The REAL big guys went to Alphatia for all these centuries. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 16:30:48 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen << Actually in this situation sleep cast upon the horses would have a much more dramatic effect as an entire charge is broken by falling over oneanother. then when the ethies are waking up their mounts you countercharge just behind your arrowstorm. Target the animals an ethie off a horse is a lot easier to kill just like any other mounted warrior. anything you can bring to bear to agitate the animals is also great, I once saw a charge halted by a griffon flyby who`d all been prot vs norm missiles. I`ve personally used catapults whose loads have been small shot with darknees/con darkness cast upon them followed by fire its great fun to watch as perfectly straight formations crumble. Remember unmounted mounted troops are a waste for your opponent try to giv him as many as possible >> Here we go again! Why are all, sorry, most so eager to kill the poor Ethengarians? They have already enough enemies and don't need the MML members. I only can say this: Ethengarian warriors are trained to fight against spellcasters and are definetely not so stupid to make an frontal attack against a closed front of spellcasters. Instead of it were the Ethengars who would use trebuchets and catapults to kill this close lines of weak mages. Don't underestimate the possibilities of the Ethengars! Do you know who Temujin was? Yes, indeed, he was known as Jenghis Khan! Translated means "Temujin" "smith". Any more questions? Jamuga Khan "Ethengar will live forever! Ethenngar will rule the world!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 16:30:55 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old One = Dark Powers (Gareth6) << >Considering the dangers of the Dimension of Vortex he should be aaround level 30 or higher. So your saying that this new immortal is a heirarch? actually theres no prob;lem with that perse hes just never been interested in mystara befor e now. Maybe his homeworld was somehow affected by WotI and hes been sent to scout out by that worlds Immortals! Just thought I`d offer another way for him to evolve without having to be an old one >> IIRC, Gareth told his followers, that he has "returned from the Vortex". There's much discussion in the last weeks, but this might be exactly true. The Vortex is so tremendously dangerous that an Immortal has to be a Hierarch to survive. The duration of his absence might be eons. (I know, an Immortal needs followers, but Gareth might have some on a forgotten plane or planet, provided with spells by an artefact.) Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 16:30:54 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar's invasion << There`s a group of ELDAR who`d like a word with you outside you smelly ethie >> Yes, these are the many joys a man can have: Visiting foreign countries, meeting exotic people, turning them into pin-cushions... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 16:41:13 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen << Dirty? Khan, you need to see a psychiatrist. :) >> A psychiatrist? Me? No true Ethengar needs a psychiatrist as long as he some fine horses, a good bow, enough arrows and some enemies for shooting them down. On the other hand, should this chain break... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 20:08:36 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Another Ludwig's speech >Enjoy your status while it lasts, because I'm coming to get you, and there isn't a pit in New Kolland deep enough to hide you from me. I WILL find Of course, sir, you realize that one you arrive in Glantri, you will have to pay the customs tax, the border-crossing fee, the import tax on your equipment, the fee for the license for carrying weapons, the fee for the license of wearing armor, the animal tax on your mount (if any), the license fee for being a member of a religious organization, the license fee for ability to enforce judgment on a citizen of Glantri, the license fee for ability to enforce judgment from a religious organization on a citizen of Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 18:18:41 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #429 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 9a120d1f427536993e23b6c0629ec33b Glantri (and that's a tough one to get, if I may say so), the license fee for being allowed to set foot on Glantrian soil (based on the distance you travel), the special border crossing tax in New Kolland, a voluntary (so to speak) contibution for the improvement of New Kolland's standard of life, the license fee for being allowed to move through New Kolland while being unaffiliated with its inhabitants, the contribution to Prince Kol's Humanoid Education Fund, as well as any fines and penalties for assaulting any citizens of Glantri. ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 17:05:18 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen In a message dated 6/16/98 1:14:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JamugaKhan@aol.com writes: >>2)Glantrians should be the most powerful mages. >What about the Alphatians? What about them? Remember WotI? >>3)Elves should be the most powerful archers. >Only among and walking on the trees! I agree with this. Certain battle-types are experts at battle because of how accustomed to an environment they are. This goes along with Elves in the woodland in my opinion. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 17:05:19 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves In a message dated 6/16/98 1:20:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ezaqwazy@hotmail.com writes: >if >not I find 4 players + GM is about ideal size does anyone have any comments? <;-P I agree. 3 - 4 players are my personal favorite. When you have an absurd amount like 11, it takes an hour to role-play the characters' waking up. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 17:05:10 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D In a message dated 6/16/98 12:28:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, eand@WPI.EDU writes: >Is an 18 STR Troll stronger than an 18 STR Human? Nope, an 18 is an 18, regardless of race. >Is it DM's choice for a racial "centering" point? i.e. A 15 STR Troll = 17 STR Human? All scores are mechanical. None are relative to a certain race/species. Certain races, such as ogres, have a (+2), i believe, to strength and can naturally reach 20. 20 is naturally out of the range of humans. However, if an ogre had a str of 17 and a human had an 18, the human would be stronger. >I use extended ability scores on my campaign. It is possible to get above 18 strength if you're not human (i.e. A Storm Giant PC can have a strength of 36, relative to humans.) >Am I just crazy, or has someone else seen this problem? This isn't a problem in AD&D. The average storm giant has a str of 24 according to the PH. I enjoy the PH's ability score system personally. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 21:51:17 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - One Final Post At 05.01 16/06/98 +0200, Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: YYou've been on here that long Geoff? Wow, im impressed. IIRC I joined the list about the same time. The people I remeber posting at the time were Chtulhudrew, Fabrizio, Peter Balatz, David Azure, and Mischa Gelman. And maybe Jenni. BTW: does someone know what happened to David Azure Leland and Sir George Anonymous? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 22:35:14 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Day of Dread (was Almanac/Glantri) At 06.37 16/06/98 PDT, paul dooley wrote: >Actually this is not so the chance to have one is interdependant with the chance NOT to have one (97%). So although just saying that there were 30 occurences since AC0 is inaccurate there may have been 0 there mayhave been 100 both of these results are possible just statistically very improbable (math is .97^n. where n is number years for one event in that time). Oh well, you're right :-) The exact chance is (1-(1-0.03^n)) where n is the number of years considered. I've made a few calculations and we have: Last 10 years 26% Last 50 years 58% Last 100 years 95% >From 152 years on is more than 99% >THerefor all we have to decide is how LUCKY Mystara was in that time a purely personal choice and if such days did happen how widespread were its effects. The important p[oint is how many studied the RADIENCE before Etienne/RAD. if none therewas NO drain for those several hundred years! <;-P But my point (and Tomás Sánchez one, I believe) is that this event is caused by a Stellar Cataclysm and thus is completely unrelated to the Radiance. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 23:02:31 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Day of Dread (was Almanac/Glantri) At 09.40 14/06/98 +0200, Tomás Sánchez wrote: >Right. The probable event associated to the 28th Kaldmont is a probable stellar cataclysm. Which i think could be caused by celestial bodies colliding. If so we can guess the involved bodies should cross each other once each year. The text reads as follows : Now we should try to understand why they collide each year after WotI. Maybe this has something to do with the NoS, maybe not. A possible explanation is that those celestial bodies collided during the Week of no Magic and the Immortals were not able (or unwilling) to fix them in the following years. Ezio, we need your astronomic help here! >After carefully reading the above paragraph it seems as if the percentage given was referred to the probable disorders among the populace. Even if it was as you said it should happen at most once. I think that's a typo (well, sort of) and the percentage refers to the whole event. If you compare it with previous entries, you'll notice that all of them have the percentaged listed at the end of the paragraph. >Don't you think so ? I believe this event could be well introduced during the last christmas of 1000 AC. Doesn't it sounds familiar ? Yes. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 16:17:00 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Encyclopedia of Mystara? Mischa E Gelman wrote: >An idea came up a few months ago about an encyclopedia of Mystara, detailing the nations and peoples of our beloved setting. Unless this has been taken off-list as a separate project (and please say if it has!) I assume it has stalled. So..why don't we go back to this idea, providing a source of info for newbies to the setting (and to the list for that matter) and also for those of us without every canon publication (I know little about the Broken Lands or Savage Coast and such a source would help give me the basics so I could understand posts about them better). I don't know how in-depth we need go, but a paragraph or so on each of the major nations, personalities (including immortals) and subcultures (ex. Pearl Islander,Ochalean,Hattian) would be a good start IMO. I'm sure we can find an 'expert' on each topic from within the lists' membership IF someone is willing to go through all the organization work. I don't remember if this was what stalled the idea originally, but for it to work we need someone in an editing/compilation/directing capacity. Any takers? I had started work on an index of D&D and Mystara products for something like this. I really haven't done much beyond just getting started. The number of material is quite overwhelming for one person. If others are interested, I could set up a format to index material and many people could gather the information from what books they own and then we could compile it into an Encyclopedia. This is the method TSR is using on the Forgotten Realms and Dragonlance encyclopedias that I'm helping with. How does that sound? - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ galwylin@airnet.net | ICQ #6755972 | AIM: Galwylin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 23:53:26 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves At 10.10 16/06/98 PDT, paul dooley wrote: >Interesting point in its own right but talked about no end before? if not I find 4 players + GM is about ideal size does anyone have any comments? <;-P I'm currently DMing a group of 3 players, my previous group had 3 players too, and yes, I find 3-4 players the ideal size. I've also played a in a FR group of 6 players, but sometimes we spent entire game sessions fighting a single group of enemies, and we also had long (and heated) discussion between players from time to time. My other GMing experience was with a 6 players (mostly newbies) group in the Star Wars RPG, but it lasted too little time to be compared to my usual experienced Mystara group. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 18:13:46 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen At 05:05 PM 6/16/98 EDT, Inconu@aol.com wrote: IIn a message dated 6/16/98 1:14:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JamugaKhan@aol.com writes: >>>2)Glantrians should be the most powerful mages. >>What about the Alphatians? >What about them? Remember WotI? Why? What happened? - --Councilor Alicarna Uncorn-friend Alanira, father of Queen Christian Alanira and newly returned from the outer planes... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 18:15:38 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D At 05:05 PM 6/16/98 EDT, Inconu@aol.com wrote: IIn a message dated 6/16/98 12:28:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, eand@WPI.EDU writes: >>Is an 18 STR Troll stronger than an 18 STR Human? >Nope, an 18 is an 18, regardless of race. That is a good question. Hardly seems rational that a 18 strength storm giant and a 18 strength halfling could be match in arm wrestling... In the game system I use there is a secondary stat called size class. Size class is cross indexed with strength to provide damage class. Basically what I am saying is that strength remains equal while size carries weight. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 15:05:12 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D >On Mon, 15 Jun 1998, Jesse LaBranche wrote: IIII like it. A lot. I've always hated the AD+D stat amping, where a 16 barely gives you anything, and an Intelligence of 9 means that you are the >>>village halfwit. This will go some way to correcting that. I didn't write this. >One A/oD&D thing I never understood was this: Is there any sort of scale that strength is measured on? Maybe the Immortal's 100 point scale is a good idea. Yes there is. >I think about this: >Is an 18 STR Troll stronger than an 18 STR Human? What about an 18 STR Hill Giant? Every other ability seems to be measured on the same scale, but sheer strength seems so out of place. No. An 18 str. Troll is the same strength as an 18 str. human and can do the exact same things with its strength. Same with the Hill Giant. 18 is the Max. strength for a human character. The average human has a 10.5 strength (According to the 3d6 method), while an Ogre has a 19 strength average (As per Gauntlets of Ogre Power). On this end, there are things stronger. Note that 1-18 is just a small step up from each other. IE. A 17 is not much different from an 18. But from 19-25 is in leaps and bounds. Although A/O D&D keeps the bonuses to a minimum, look at the weight allowance jump from say 17-18, then look at it from 19-20. So a 17 strength creature is only slightly inferior to an 18 strength. But an 18 is exceedingly inferior to a 19 who is inferior to a 20, etc. >Of course that 18/** concept on AD&D is about as lame as they get. Is it DM's choice for a racial "centering" point? i.e. A 15 STR Troll = 17 STR Human? >So on the Immortals' scale, 15 STR Troll = 17 STR. 18 STR Troll = 20 STR No, beings with the same strength should be the same in all aspects regarding strength. >I use extended ability scores on my campaign. It is possible to get above 18 strength if you're not human (i.e. A Storm Giant PC can have a strength of 36, relative to humans.) >Am I just crazy, or has someone else seen this problem? Max IV I wouldn't go to that extreme, but a Storm Giant is supposed to have a 24 strength. Also, TSR has set 25 as the upper limit, but that does not mean that it needs to be followed- there just has to be justification to make it higher. Also, consider bulk. Is a Dragon actually stronger than a Human wearing Gauntlets of Ogre Power and a Girdle of Storm Giant strength (This brings str. to 25) ? I don't think so, they have the same strength, but leverage comes in at this point. A 25 str. human could not lift a smooth steel ball that is 1000# and 6' in diameter- no leverage. A dragon can lift it with 1 claw. This is not a measure of strength, but leverage. Later. Jesse. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #429 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, June 17 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 430 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves Re: [MYSTARA] - One Final Post [MYSTARA] - Age on the list Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Ierendi? (was:- The big Boom) Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves Re: [MYSTARA] - The last moments before The Great Rain of Fire. (FanFic) Re: [MYSTARA] - Another Ludwig's speech Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Old One = Dark Powers (Gareth6) Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Age on the list [MYSTARA] - The First Annual MML 24 Hour Tournament! Re: [MYSTARA] - The First Annual MML 24 Hour Tournament! Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D [MYSTARA] - God Stats (was Skills in D&D) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 15:15:57 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D >FWIW, This table shows the relative chances of success between 4d6-4 and >1d20: >Skill 4d6-4 1d20 >----- ------- ------- > 0 0.077 0.000 > 1 0.386 5.000 > 2 1.157 10.000 > 3 2.701 15.000 > 4 5.401 20.000 > 5 9.722 25.000 > 6 15.895 30.000 > 7 23.920 35.000 > 8 33.565 40.000 > 9 44.367 45.000 > 10 55.633 50.000 > 11 66.435 55.000 > 12 76.080 60.000 > 13 84.105 65.000 > 14 90.278 70.000 > 15 94.599 75.000 > 16 97.299 80.000 > 17 98.843 85.000 > 18 99.614 90.000 > 19 99.923 95.000 > 20 100.000 100.000 >Mike The 4d6 method strongly favors higher stats, and does not show a balanced increase. If I have a 17 and put a slot in it gives me a 1% gain (unlike a 5% on the d20 method). If I have an 18, it did absolutely nothing for me. (unlike another 5% gain on the d20 method). Thinking that I might have a character with a 17, I have to put 3 slots in for a 2% increase instead of 1 slot in for a 5% increase. It just seems that a steady progression system is more appropriate- JMO. Later. Jesse. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 18:30:46 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves Haavard said: >Hey, whats the adress :P >Actually I attended to a game session with 11 players. It was not exactly >the ideal gaming situation IMO. I wonder what the DM though about it... > >Håvard Well, I ran Paranoia for a local convention and had 10 players. If you know anything about that game, then you'll know that the more players you have, the more death there will be - three whole clone families wiped out before the mission briefing. Not bad. :) Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 18:37:14 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - One Final Post Haavard said: >You've been on here that long Geoff? Wow, im impressed. IIRC I joined the >list about the same time. The people I remeber posting at the time were >Chtulhudrew, Fabrizio, Peter Balatz, David Azure, and Mischa Gelman. And >maybe Jenni. Ofcourse, I was a lurker for a while. Maybe I should >have stayed a lurker instead of spewing useless chit chat on this list? ;P > >Håvard Yeah! I remember Jenni, Leroy (with his old sig - "Cthulhu, eh? I think I'll backstab him."), Fabrizio, David Leland, Cthul, Gabriele Ferri, Brant Guillory (whatever happened to him?) and someone with the last name of Ovard (at least that's how it appeared on my screen). I didn't say much for the first year or so, except the occasional posting about Thonia, Blackmoor, and so on. 'Course, I had to resubscribe when I left the uni, so my "age" is probably shown as being less than it is. Cool. How many Elder Beings do we have out there? Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 18:39:23 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Age on the list > >>>CRIPTONITE said: >I think i signed on in 95. So it must have been around the same time as >yourself. I was a solid lurker for a long time though, 6 months to a year. I >was finally able to get WotI and understand exactly what everyone was talking >about. I took the whole Alfheim downfall pretty hard. Is there anyway to >find out when we signed up for the MML? I'm really curious now. Anyone know? >Leroy? Yeah, I'd like to know, too. It's been long enough that I can't really remember.. :P Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 18:46:42 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D In a message dated 6/16/98 6:35:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, vanquer@softhome.net writes: > The 4d6 method strongly favors higher stats, and does not show a > balanced increase. If I have a 17 and put a slot in it gives me a 1% gain > (unlike a 5% on the d20 method). If I have an 18, it did absolutely nothing > for me. (unlike another 5% gain on the d20 method). > Thinking that I might have a character with a 17, I have to put 3 slots > in for a 2% increase instead of 1 slot in for a 5% increase. It just seems > that a steady progression system is more appropriate- JMO. Very good point Jesse. Plus the chances of a failure at a score of 14 is so small that you are practically a master of the task. 14 is supposed to be slightly above average, and i don't believe that the table showed a good representation of it. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 18:51:57 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D In a message dated 6/16/98 6:36:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jdaly@friend.ly.net writes: > That is a good question. Hardly seems rational that a 18 strength storm > giant and a 18 strength halfling could be match in arm wrestling... It's also hardly rational for a halfling to be that strong or especially a storm giant being so very weak. And even more difficult to believe that they both love the art of arm wrestling... > In the game system I use there is a secondary stat called size class. Size > class is cross indexed with strength to provide damage class. I think that the size of a creature is properly accounted for in the systems. Storm Giants are given a strength of 24 for a reason. Their size and strength is much greater and far exceeds the limits of most mortals. > Basically what I am saying is that strength remains equal while size > carries weight. I don't agree. Size and strength aren't directly related. Bigger doesn't necessarily mean stronger. IMO. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 18:58:18 EDT From: Mystaros@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Ierendi? (was:- The big Boom) In a message dated 98-06-16 01:08:57 EDT, you write: << Hey Mystaros! You mentioned to me some time ago that you had done some drastic changes to Ierendi IYC. Want to share it? Send it to me privately if you dont want to bother the list with it. Håvard >> I will post such information as I can once I get it into a legible format (read: something other than notes and scribbles on post-it notes, notepaper, graph paper and synapses). Been busy working on my Taymoran stuff and my own Midlands write-up (did I ever post anything about Galannor here or in the old AOL section? Can't remember)... But I will get to Ierendi asap... Mystaros *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 20:14:26 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D At 06:51 PM 6/16/98 EDT, Inconu@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 6/16/98 6:36:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >jdaly@friend.ly.net writes: > >> That is a good question. Hardly seems rational that a 18 strength storm >> giant and a 18 strength halfling could be match in arm wrestling... > >It's also hardly rational for a halfling to be that strong or especially a >storm giant being so very weak. And even more difficult to believe that they >both love the art of arm wrestling... You've got me there! > >> In the game system I use there is a secondary stat called size class. Size >> class is cross indexed with strength to provide damage class. > >I think that the size of a creature is properly accounted for in the systems. >Storm Giants are given a strength of 24 for a reason. Their size and strength >is much greater and far exceeds the limits of most mortals. I am unaware of Giants having any strength at all...wait! You play AD&D don't you? > >> Basically what I am saying is that strength remains equal while size >> carries weight. > >I don't agree. Size and strength aren't directly related. Bigger doesn't >necessarily mean stronger. IMO. But it is a factor. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 17:11:56 -0700 (PDT) From: larry palmer Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves - ---Leroy Van Camp III wrote: > > > > Rob meandered fecklessly... > > > Hey Leroy, can I play in one of your games? > > Sure. Hell, eveyone's invited! We'll see how much damage we > can do to Mystara with a dozen players in a 24 hour gamefest! > > I must insist that everyone bring their own beer, though... : ) > I'm not made of money. Where and when?( seriously ) _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 21:13:00 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The last moments before The Great Rain of Fire. (FanFic) On Tue, 16 Jun 1998 JamugaKhan@aol.com wrote: > IIRC Benekander was NOT the chief engineer of the Beagle. Please > don't promote him afterwards. No he wasn't, I think he was engineer's mate. (furtively rereading WotI) That's my bust. In my previous story, I had the captain talking to him, maybe the Cheif was off duty? Anyway, a little artistic licence can be forgiven in the eyes of the Immortals. Heck, they let Joshuan propose his theory of the Hollow World, did they not? > Good story! I like it. Thank you very much :) Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 21:15:52 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Another Ludwig's speech On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Aleksei Andrievski wrote: [Snip] > Education Fund, as well as any fines and penalties for assaulting any > citizens of Glantri. At this point, our valiant knight, wearing nothing but a loincloth, having sold everything else to pay his way into Glantri, arriveas at the Baron's keep, and gets smacked down by the Orcish housekeeper. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 21:25:29 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Jesse LaBranche wrote: > I wouldn't go to that extreme, but a Storm Giant is supposed to have a > 24 strength. Also, TSR has set 25 as the upper limit, but that does not mean Well, I'm not talking AD&D here. A 36 strength for a human allows that human to wield a 2 handed weapon in one hand without loss of skill. Ogres wield 2 handed weapons as normal swords. Therefore a 12 Strength Ogre can toss around a 6 foot long sword like it was nothing. Think about that. Its a HUGE size~strength issue. If an 18 str Ogre does wields a 2 handed sword one handedthen on the Human (immortal's) scale, he'd have a 36 strength. Now a human of even 18 strength cannot wield a 2 handed sword in one hand, and a halfling can't even wield a 2 handed sword alone! Even with 18 strength. I support Racial centering of the Strength attribute. As someone said earlier, an 18 STR Storm giant can't possibly lose to an 18 str Halfling. Heck, even average (10.5 STR) Storm Giants toss boulders around. Show me a 10.5 STR human who can do that, and I'll ask you what kind of screwy game system you're playing. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 18:25:46 PDT From: "Azure Ghost" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old One = Dark Powers (Gareth6) >If we go with the idea that there should be six classes, spheres, or >whatever (corresponding to the four elemental planes plus the >positive and negative material planes), then we could have the >following: > >Mortal classes: > >Warrior/Fighter >Rogue/Thief >Wizard/Mage >Priest/Cleric >Psionicist/Mystic > >The sixth class, "Immortal", is of course not available to mortals.... > >Immortal Spheres: > >Energy >Matter >Thought >Time >Entropy > >Again, the sixth sphere, whatever we decide to call it, is not available >to Immortals.... > >Old Ones: > >Who knows how they organize themselves? If they have six "types", >then they are the ultimate beings -- but if they only have five, then >there is something above them. Of course, we will never know the >truth about that one.... > Well then what if the Old Ones are like what Ao is to the Forgotten Realms, the supreme being who created all? but like it said in the books Ao had a master also. oh well. Azure ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 21:32:41 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D On Tue, 16 Jun 1998 Inconu@aol.com wrote: > Storm Giants are given a strength of 24 for a reason. Their size and strength > is much greater and far exceeds the limits of most mortals. But PC storm Giants don't automatically get 24 str. They get 3d6 just like the rest of us (i'm still talking oD&D.) Strength is relative to race In the OD&D system. The only appreciable way to measure Strength on a single scale IMHO is to translate everything to the Immortal's 100 point scale! 18 STR Storm Giant > 14 STR Storm Giant > 18 STR Human. Why keep track of this, when, we can write it as: 48 STR Storm Giant > 44 STR Storm Giant > 18 STR Human. Of course, only Immortals can get beyond a certain number. But then again, an Immortal with a 3 STR could beat a Storm Giant arm wrestling. It's the whole "I am a God" thing ;) Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 20:58:11 -0600 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Age on the list Geoff Gander meandered fecklessly... > >>>CRIPTONITE said: > > >I think i signed on in 95. So it must have been around the same time as > >yourself. I was a solid lurker for a long time though, 6 months to a year. I > >was finally able to get WotI and understand exactly what everyone was talking > >about. I took the whole Alfheim downfall pretty hard. Is there anyway to > >find out when we signed up for the MML? I'm really curious now. Anyone know? > >Leroy? > > Yeah, I'd like to know, too. It's been long enough that I can't really > remember.. :P There are no actual subscription records or anything. The closest thing I could think of would be to track down your first post in the digest. Of course, there in lies a bit of a problem. At the moment the only digests that seem to be available are for the list's current incarnation on MPGN, and for the list after its "rebirth" on Illuminati Online. The very first digests are gone. If anyone has access to these, let me know! > BTW: does someone know what happened to David Azure Leland > and Sir George Anonymous? I have no idea. They just sorta drifted of into the aether. Kinda surprising, especially with ol' Sir George, since he was one of the original members, from the group of us that formulated the idea for the list on rec.games.frp.dnd. The only other person from that group still on the list that I recall is Jim Sahlas. > Yeah! I remember Jenni, Leroy (with his old sig - "Cthulhu, eh? I think > I'll backstab him."), Ahh yes, the "wit" of Leroy. I may have to reinstate that one... > Fabrizio, David Leland, Cthul, Gabriele Ferri, > Brant Guillory (whatever happened to him?) and someone with the last name > of Ovard (at least that's how it appeared on my screen). The list has certianly seen its share of faces come and go. What is kind of odd is how some of those who have passed on (well, from the list) were also some of the more active members. And they rarely say goodbye. It's just at some point, like this one, someone says "Hey! What happened to what's his face?" Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com ICQ #4253672 "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 21:12:08 -0600 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - The First Annual MML 24 Hour Tournament! Håvard Rønne Faanes meandered fecklessly... Leroy Van Camp III wrote: > Rob meandered fecklessly... > > > Hey Leroy, can I play in one of your games? > > Sure. Hell, eveyone's invited! We'll see how much damage we > > can do to Mystara with a dozen players in a 24 hour gamefest! > > > > I must insist that everyone bring their own beer, though... : ) > > I'm not made of money. > Hey, whats the adress :P Boise, Idaho, USA And I assure you, the place is not as exciting as it sounds. > Actually I attended to a game session with 11 players. It was not exactly > the ideal gaming situation IMO. I wonder what the DM though about it... Well, the key to managing that large of a group is good planning. So, I'll tell ya' what, we'll plan the game for around a year from now, give me plenty of time to work on it. Inconu murmurred form the shadows... > Great, who's up for a MML role-playing weekend? Can you fit 200 people in the > house Leroy? Well, for such a grand event, I would probably rent us a room at a convention center or something. If the Shriners can run amuck, why can't we? Besides, if we played at my place, someone might open the the door to my rommmate's room, and the resulting insanity might weigh me down with a bit of guilt (and possibly turn the game into a Call of Cthulhu LARP) larry palmer spewed forth... > Where and when?( seriously ) Well, tell ya' what, get at least four more people to show up and I'll think about it... : ) "What do you mean your closing down the list because the six of ya' destroyed Mystara?" Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com ICQ #4253672 "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 23:43:49 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The First Annual MML 24 Hour Tournament! On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Leroy Van Camp III wrote: > "What do you mean your closing down the list because the six of > ya' destroyed Mystara?" Oops. I hope that wouldn't be Canon :) If so, they'd be mass lynchings in Boise! Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 20:52:53 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D >Jesse: >> The 4d6 method strongly favors higher stats, and does not show a >> balanced increase. If I have a 17 and put a slot in it gives me a 1% gain >> (unlike a 5% on the d20 method). If I have an 18, it did absolutely nothing >> for me. (unlike another 5% gain on the d20 method). >> Thinking that I might have a character with a 17, I have to put 3 slots >> in for a 2% increase instead of 1 slot in for a 5% increase. It just seems >> that a steady progression system is more appropriate- JMO. >Very good point Jesse. Plus the chances of a failure at a score of 14 is so >small that you are practically a master of the task. 14 is supposed to be >slightly above average, and i don't believe that the table showed a good >representation of it. >-Inconu Yeah, I noticed this one too. I think that the best proficiency brought forward is the one in the S&P (One of its few redeeming qualities IMO). But, this makes characters weaker- not stronger. Also, I have to agree that I agree with your response to J. Daly about strength not being related to size and the limitations on a Hobbit (Oops. Halfling) and a Storm Giant. Later. Jesse. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 20:57:03 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D >Inconu wrote: >>I think that the size of a creature is properly accounted for in the systems. >>Storm Giants are given a strength of 24 for a reason. Their size and strength >>is much greater and far exceeds the limits of most mortals. >I am unaware of Giants having any strength at all...wait! You play AD&D >don't you? >J. Daly Well then, apply an AD&D ruling to D&D. If you want the truth, giants are only applied strength in a magic item- not in the monster write-ups. I don't see any problem with pulling from another system to plug a hole. BTW: Size modifiers for damage and speed would work in D&D just as well as they do in AD&D and will make many aspects of combat more realistic without slowing the game incredibly. Later. Jesse. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 21:05:12 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D >Heck, even average (10.5 STR) Storm Giants toss boulders around. >Show me a 10.5 STR human who can do that, and I'll ask you what kind of >screwy game system you're playing. >Max IV Alright Max, they're called rocks. Now a 10.5 strength Storm Giant would be able to pick up a larger rock, but not a heavier one. A 5'2" tall person with a higher strength can lift more than a 7' person with a lower strength. A 7' person has better leverage and can lift larger items, but this doesn't mean that he can lift heavier weight or do more damage on a hit. The difference between an Ogre and a Human is one of a couple of feet and a point of Strength. Choosing to ignore AD&D is your option, but would your reaction have been as aggressive had I said "In Champions..." There are many things that can be pulled from AD&D into D&D that will make the D&D game more enjoyable and vice versa. Since the two systems are so compatible why not exploit the advantages of both ? Later. Jesse. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 00:28:36 EDT From: BoBoII@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - God Stats (was Skills in D&D) In a message dated 06/16/98 8:42:30 PM, Max, in a very non-feckless, meander- free post, wrote: <> But, in much Real world myths, there are "Gods" who's behavior and other adventures don't indicate that they are that superhuman. Several Greek and Nordic stories involve mortals tricking gods, or besting them in various contests (Is Ares really much wiser than most humans? (Classic Ares, not the blow dried Xena/Herc chump)) Giants were actually a real threat to the Nordic gods and the Titans were foes to some Greek deities. Can anyone on the list give me examples of other cultural myths where mere mortals or other earthly critters were a threat to a god? Please share . . . Maybe just e-mail me as this would take the thread dangerously close to the realm of "non-Mystara" and incur the wrath of the MML gods (who, as we all know from the VIP thread have stats Waaaay higher than yours or mine.) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #430 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, June 17 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 431 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen Re: [MYSTARA] - The First Annual MML 24 Hour Tournament! Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Midland Forest-cohabitation [MYSTARA] - Thunder Rift Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Gaming group structure (was: spellcasting and Bards) Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Gaming group structure (was: spellcast Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics of Rad (was: Cure for Amputations?) Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen Re: [MYSTARA] - Encyclopedia of Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen Re: [MYSTARA] - Day of Dread (was Almanac/Glantri) Re: [MYSTARA] - Encyclopedia of Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: [MYSTARA] - The big Boom (Was: Deformed Shadowelves) Re: [MYSTARA] - The last moments before The Great Rain of Fire. (FanFic) Re: [MYSTARA] - Atruagin Plateau Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Gaming group structure (was: spellcast Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Gaming group structure (was: spellcast Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Gaming group structure (was: spellcast Re: [MYSTARA] - One Final Post Re: [MYSTARA] - Encyclopedia of Mystara? [MYSTARA] - Strength (was: Skills in D&D) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 00:38:32 EDT From: BoBoII@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen Khan are you attempting to gain Immortal status in the Sphere of Partisanship? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 22:56:01 -0600 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The First Annual MML 24 Hour Tournament! SteelAngel meandered fecklessly... > On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Leroy Van Camp III wrote: > > > "What do you mean your closing down the list because the six of > > ya' destroyed Mystara?" > > Oops. I hope that wouldn't be Canon :) If so, they'd be mass lynchings in > Boise! This is Idaho, boy! Everyone here get's lynched at least once every couple of years! That's enough off-topic posts from me, dangit. : ) Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com ICQ #4253672 "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 01:13:25 EDT From: BoBoII@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Midland Forest-cohabitation Not a big fan of the half-orc, half-elf mix (just a gut reaction, mind you) but what if those lonely elf stragglers have become the clan elders . . . "Your party, having been caught in the elaborate wilderness traps set for you (and after that entangle spell nailed the thief who made his dex check) are dragged into the orc village. The low huts and long houses are covered in living foliage, effectively masking them from view until you are right in the middle of a clearing you realize is their town square. While it's hard for you to make out their odd dialect, the mage (after a successful language skill check) thinks that the gist of the conversation between the orc patrol leader and the matriarch and her "Druid?!?" advisor is that you are to be taken to "Tree-Who-Teaches You are propelled, not quite as roughly as before, into the hollowed out trunk of a huge Oak, the interior of which is bigger than some inn rooms you've stayed in on this trip. As your eyes adjust to the gloom from the sunlight outside , you turn to see a robed figure slowly descend in a spiral from the darkness above you on small steps carved on the trunks interior. When it reaches the earthen floor, it turns its hooded face in your direction, then slowly raises small, gnarled hands to push back the cowl and reveal . . . The pointed ears and gleaming hazel eyes of an ancient Wood Elf. As you stare at him with mouths agape, he softly laments, "Outsiders . . . As it was recorded in the Prophesy. Now that you are here . . . What is to become of us? We're doomed." But fixing his gaze on YOU, a wisp of surprise, and then the smallest ripple of hope crosses his face. Looking into YOUR eyes he points a spindly finger at that medallion you're wearing and whispers "Unless . . . . . . ." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 01:22:31 EDT From: WeSingalso@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Thunder Rift Did anyone play in this setting (Original D&D from a few years ago)? Are there any websites for it? Do you have any suggestions for adventures? I just startred a campaign using RAGE OF THE RAKASTA, and now they and thunder rift are the major elements of the campaign. Any ideas? Thanks! BACKCHANNEL ME! Nick WeSingalso@aol.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 02:59:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D paul dooley pontificated: > > > >With 4d5, the average is 12. > > > Context gave 6=0 eg 0-5 which is one less than 1-6 average IS 2.5 *4=10 > <;-P > I misunderstood the original post. I thought he meant re-roll the 6's, with would make equivlent of d5. John Yu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 11:21:34 +0200 From: Marc-Antoine Guidault Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Gaming group structure (was: spellcasting and Bards) > >> Interesting point in its own right but talked about no end before? if >> not I find 4 players + GM is about ideal size does anyone have any >> comments? <;-P > >I agree. Most of the campaigns i'm involved in these days have 4-5 players >+GM. This leaves more room for emphasis on characters and roleplaying, yet >the group is large enough to use in regular scenarios. In the old days we >were 7-8 player +GM, but at that time we only did dungeon crawling and >random encouners ;P On the old continent, it seems to have evolved in the same way ... Dungeon crawling with 2-3 GM and 11 players splitted in 2 groups isn't our way of playing now. I think (as a DM) that it's more interessing with few players to play. But too few (2-3) is sometimes booring as no division appears beetween players (i enjoy when it happen). I'm now GM for 2 players someimes helped by 2 others, and i enjoy it. I've already been GM for 8 players and there's no good feeling left of it. Marcus *** Marc-Antoine Guidault (mag@mel.teamlog.fr) http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/7837 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 11:49:22 +0200 From: Marc-Antoine Guidault Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D At 17:05 16/06/1998 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 6/16/98 12:28:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, eand@WPI.EDU >writes: > >> Is an 18 STR Troll stronger than an 18 STR Human? > >Nope, an 18 is an 18, regardless of race. > >> Is it DM's choice for a racial "centering" point? i.e. A 15 STR Troll = 17 >> STR Human? > >All scores are mechanical. None are relative to a certain race/species. >Certain races, such as ogres, have a (+2), i believe, to strength and can >naturally reach 20. 20 is naturally out of the range of humans. However, if an >ogre had a str of 17 and a human had an 18, the human would be stronger. Beware not to melt 2 things : pure strength and power ... We can understand it as : Strength times Weight = Power So a troll with 16 in Strength can easily make a human with 18 in Strength fall ... Own point of view ... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 10:47:11 +0000 (GMT) From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Gaming group structure (was: spellcast > On the old continent, it seems to have evolved in the same way ... >Dungeon crawling with 2-3 GM and 11 players splitted in 2 groups isn't our >way of playing now. I think (as a DM) that it's more interessing with few >players to play. But too few (2-3) is sometimes booring as no division >appears beetween players (i enjoy when it happen). Meep! I think 3-4 is ideal, but no division when there's just 3 players? IMC I'm having trouble getting the three of them involved in doing stuff together, this is after characters not talking to each other for months...(in between a couple of adventures at the start of the alphatian-glantrian war...was nasty stuff...) There's an interesting book called something like "Grooming, gossip and the evolution of language", which has some interesting reasons for why 4 people may be the best number of people to have in a group (inc DM, er, GM, so we don't have to have Marco at *every* game :) ) Also, just out of curiosity, I rekon most people here are DM's, is anyone on the list just a player? gordon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 02:56:58 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics of Rad (was: Cure for Amputations?) >Is there any clerics of Rad somewhere on Mystara? > Must be some surely else why list their benefits? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 02:59:24 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen >They should probably be just as powerful. They aren't around anymore >though. I think the NACE wizards should be considerably weaker than the HW >Alphatian ones. Shouldn`t that be the other way round. Alphatians in HW have reduced capabilities due to world shield/spell of preservation IIRC ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 03:03:46 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Encyclopedia of Mystara? >I too, like this idea. I think it should be different from the Almanac >though. However, we could borrow some sections from these products, if the Alamanc crew doesn't mind? I don't want to volunteer as head of such a product though. Anyone, up for the challenge? > I`d be more than willing to help with such a project, but I too couldn`t head it up. Is this the rare case of too many indians and not enough chiefs? <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 03:14:46 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen >Here we go again! > > >Why are all, sorry, most so eager to kill the poor Ethengarians? I`m not against the Ethengarians just pointing out that if you seperate the best MOUNTED warrior from said mount he`s much more manageable. The same tactic is valid for Heldannics as well. > >I only can say this: Ethengarian warriors are trained to fight against >spellcasters and are definetely not so stupid to make an frontal attack >against a closed front of spellcasters. Instead of it were the Ethengars >who would use trebuchets and catapults to kill this close lines of weak >mages. Don't underestimate the possibilities of the Ethengars! > Thats why IIRC those Glantrian mages are 3rd level. Try to find an invisible line waiting in ambush cos their mates have cast invisibility on the horses they come in from the sides whilst your facing the VISIBLE foes. Gee advanced battlefield tactics almost Ethengarian wouldn`t you say! <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 03:18:35 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen >No true Ethengar needs a psychiatrist as long as he some fine >horses, a good bow, enough arrows and some enemies for >shooting them down. > >On the other hand, should this chain break... > Message from rest of creation `We would ALL like to be friends now(SNIGGER)` <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 03:25:11 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Day of Dread (was Almanac/Glantri) > >But my point (and Tom=E1s S=E1nchez one, I believe) is that this event is >caused by a Stellar Cataclysm and thus is completely unrelated to the >Radiance. Is it really? How come all 5 Heirarchs seem to take such an interest in Mystara then? Maybe it IS the centre of the Mystaraverse, and no Kahn; Ethengar ISN`T the centre of Mystara. <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 03:27:57 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Encyclopedia of Mystara? >I had started work on an index of D&D and Mystara products for something >like this. I really haven't done much beyond just getting started. The >number of material is quite overwhelming for one person. If others are >interested, I could set up a format to index material and many people >could gather the information from what books they own and then we could >compile it into an Encyclopedia. This is the method TSR is using on the >Forgotten Realms and Dragonlance encyclopedias that I'm helping with.=20 >How does that sound? I`m game just tell me what you want from me, excepting my firstborn of course ttfn, Paul ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 03:32:04 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D >In the game system I use there is a secondary stat called size class. Size >class is cross indexed with strength to provide damage class. > >Basically what I am saying is that strength remains equal while size >carries weight. > IIRC PC1 said something about strength being relative to those of same species then said about a centaur and a pixie or some such but no rule just common sense ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 03:41:54 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D > Also, consider bulk. Is a Dragon actually stronger than a Human wearing >Gauntlets of Ogre Power and a Girdle of Storm Giant strength (This brings >str. to 25) ? Rules Quibble aren`t they only additive when you have a magic warhammer? Even then you`ve still only got 24 str for lifting stuff I don't think so, they have the same strength, but leverage >comes in at this point. A 25 str. human could not lift a smooth steel ball >that is 1000# and 6' in diameter- no leverage. A dragon can lift it with 1 >claw. This is not a measure of strength, but leverage. > The lever needs to be able to support the mass though doesnt it? Anyway 1 claw means can roll it around you need at least two, or one really big sucker or a spider climb spell. (note cast this on your really big dragons then grab PC`s relatively they`re small enough to stick. NOTE walking on this foot is messy so clean up afterwards <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 03:44:25 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves >Well, I ran Paranoia for a local convention and had 10 players. If you >know anything about that game, then you'll know that the more players you >have, the more death there will be - three whole clone families wiped out >before the mission briefing. Not bad. :) > >Geoff > Ah yes the exception that proves the rule. IIRC isn`t one of the rules for the GM `Kill the B£^$^%$s`? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 03:49:52 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D >Very good point Jesse. Plus the chances of a failure at a score of 14 is so >small that you are practically a master of the task. 14 is supposed to be >slightly above average, and i don't believe that the table showed a good >representation of it. > However if we`re talking a game using only 3d6 for stats then 14+ is a really good score. Anyhow as a GM surely you would allow anyone with a skill to perform everyday tasks with it without rolling wouldn`t you? A blacksmith shouln`t have to roll each time he shoes a horse etc. but thats just IMO <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 04:04:15 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D >paul dooley pontificated: >> >> >> >With 4d5, the average is 12. >> > >> Context gave 6=0 eg 0-5 which is one less than 1-6 average IS 2.5 *4=10 >> <;-P >> >I misunderstood the original post. I thought he meant re-roll the >6's, with would make equivlent of d5. > Since whenever I get off topic all hell ensues pontification it has to be! <;-P ttfn, Paul ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 13:11:25 +0200 (MET DST) From: Wolfgang Razen Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The big Boom (Was: Deformed Shadowelves) > << The question is, how did the great Rain of Fire happen ? >> > > > For my own take on this check out my History of Blackmoor, found on Shawn > Stanley's website as well as on my own, poor, neglected site... > > Thanx for not including the URL-Sites... (Sarcasm off) Nice for this hint, but I dont have those two sites ready, so I have to wait another millenia... Don't take it personally Wolfgang - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- shadow@POOL.informatik.rwth-aachen-de | If you flee, you only die tiered shadow@lvs.informatik.rwth-aachen.de | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 13:17:47 +0200 (MET DST) From: Wolfgang Razen Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The last moments before The Great Rain of Fire. (FanFic) Way cool story! I like it. Regarding to the Beagle it is fully o.k. to say that the Beagle power-engines were Antimatter. But I think (blame me for being a MoO 2 addictive) that a civilization have to understand the principles of nuclear fission and fusion before developing Antimatter engines. The implementation of a condensator-based warp-jump-core makes this discussion useless. (the exploding core did the nasty stuff) more comments welcome - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- shadow@POOL.informatik.rwth-aachen-de | If you flee, you only die tiered shadow@lvs.informatik.rwth-aachen.de | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 04:20:15 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Atruagin Plateau >I have a question regarding the plateau upon which the Atruaghin clans live. >Does the gazetteer describe it's geology? If it is a giant sheet of >limestone it would be a great location for an underdark-style campaign with >lost cities, subterranean seas, etc. (while the Atruaghins above are >completely oblivious.) A volcanic or sandstone plateau would likely be >solid, though it could have buried something I suppose. Does the gazetteer >shed any light on this? I am thinking about developing something there for >my campaign, but would rather avoid a conflict with "canon" if possible, and >I don't have the Atruaghin Gaz. > IIRC after the elevator was destroyed a new way was found via underground tunnels to ship Darokinian goods to Atruaghin and vice versa so your underdark stuff could quite easily linkup. Also doesnt a branch of the shadoeelf cavern network reach this far west? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 13:43:45 +0200 From: Marc-Antoine Guidault Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Gaming group structure (was: spellcast Gordon wrote tout à l'heure : >Also, just out of curiosity, I rekon most people here are DM's, is >anyone on the list just a player? Perhaps due to fact that those who likes Mystara didn't find DM (err GM) to be players. They must be GM for their beloved world to be played ... (it's ys case) *** Marc-Antoine Guidault (mag@mel.teamlog.fr) http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/7837 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 05:38:38 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Gaming group structure (was: spellcast >>Also, just out of curiosity, I rekon most people here are DM's,anyone on the list just a player? >Perhaps due to fact that those who likes Mystara didn't find DM (err GM) tobe players. They must be GM for their beloved world to be played ... (it's ys case) > I did once get to play in someone elses Mystara, but it wasn`t as good as I`d hoped mainly because apart from the names there was no way to tell which campaign we were in. Mind you I did win once at gencon in OD&D open but thats not really roleplaying as we know it! It`s got some similarities but you don`t always get the same connection with the other players! <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 05:43:28 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Gaming group structure (was: spellcast >>Also, just out of curiosity, I rekon most people here are DM's, is=20 >>anyone on the list just a player? >Perhaps due to fact that those who likes Mystara didn't find DM (err GM) = >to >be players. They must be GM for their beloved world to be played ... Another thought. Hasn`t anyone done a Mystara PBeM I`m sure that those on this list would love to get involved with such. Mind you I`ve never played in let alone run a PBeM so I could be talking through my hat about this, but if someone has I`d like to here more <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 09:47:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - One Final Post > >You've been on here that long Geoff? Wow, im impressed. IIRC I joined the > >list about the same time. The people I remeber posting at the time were > >Chtulhudrew, Fabrizio, Peter Balatz, David Azure, and Mischa Gelman. And > >maybe Jenni. > > BTW: does someone know what happened to David Azure Leland and Sir George > Anonymous? Well, both of them had net access through university accounts (Oberlin and Syracuse respectively I believe) and us students eventually get around to graduating. So, they likely got sucked up into the vast masses of real life which does not have net access. Just my guess. "I was determined and dedicated. I worked hard in the weight room all summer. And I ate a lot." - Oklahoma State football player Jevon Langford, on gaining 60 pounds in one summer *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 10:07:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Encyclopedia of Mystara? > I think it's a great idea Mischa, even though it could really take a long > to develop... But if i got it right, what you wanna do has already been > done with the PWA and the Mystara Net Almanac (Shawn has used articles from > the almanac to introduce the various countries of Mystara in his homepage, > for example)... Am i getting it wrong? Well, it would be similar, but be more for newbies than for experienced Mystarans. The almanac gives information on changes in the setting and on statistical data about countries more than a synopsis of the country thatr summarizes the land. I don't know if that's drawing too fine a line there.. Anyhow, the idea that I have would also include other basic Mystaran info, including the past (Blackmoor being the most common point) that is inappropriate for a yearly almanac as well as more detail on key figures like Thincol or Duke Stefan. Perhaps a Who's Who and What's What of Mystara would be a good description of what I had in mind (which need not be the limits on the entire project) "I was determined and dedicated. I worked hard in the weight room all summer. And I ate a lot." - Oklahoma State football player Jevon Langford, on gaining 60 pounds in one summer *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 17:49:14 +0200 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Strength (was: Skills in D&D) At 11.49 17/06/98 +0200, Marc Antoine wrote: >>All scores are mechanical. None are relative to a certain race/species. >>Certain races, such as ogres, have a (+2), i believe, to strength and can >>naturally reach 20. 20 is naturally out of the range of humans. However, if an >>ogre had a str of 17 and a human had an 18, the human would be stronger. > >Beware not to melt 2 things : pure strength and power ... We can understand >it as : >Strength times Weight = Power >So a troll with 16 in Strength can easily make a human with 18 in Strength >fall ... IMC, i solved the problem in two ways: first of all, the effective lift capacity of a person varies with his strength and size. So, for example, a 18 STR 4' halfling and a 18 STR 6' human won't have the same lift capacity, even though they both will deal 3 points of damage with their fists. So, if the STR value is the same, the size is what really matters, but only to a certain degree. For example again, a 6' human with STR 10 is weaker than a 15 or 16 STR halfling, but roughly equal to a 13-14 STR halfling, IIRC. Second thing: some races and creatures not only benefit from their great size (giants and dragons), but they're also able to surpass the "human" natural limit, and have scores that range beyond 18, especially regarding STR. For example, IMC Hill Giants have 18 STR, Rock G. 19, Fire G. 20 and Sea Giants 21 IIRC. In the case of Sea Giants, i inferred the score basing on PC3, the Sea People (don't have it right under my nose, but looking at it i discovered that even if the giant has a maximum score of 18, it has nonetheless another +2 to damage for "his great strength", so this means he must have at least 21 in STR, which gives him a +5 to damage). Last note: IMC i also have recalculated movement rates and they're based on the individual STR and size. The STR and size also affect which kind of weapons one can wield one or two handed. Seems complicated, but it's not :) DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #431 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, June 17 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 432 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Gaming group structure Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics of Rad (was: Cure for Amputations?) Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Gaming group structure [MYSTARA] - Who's ONLY a player? Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics of Rad (was: Cure for Amputations?) [MYSTARA] - Thoughts on Adventure Scripting Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Day of Dread (was Almanac/Glantri) Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Strength (was: Skills in D&D) Re: [MYSTARA] - Who's ONLY a player? RE: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: [MYSTARA] - The First Annual MML 24 Hour Tournament! Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 18:09:19 +0200 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Gaming group structure At 10.47 17/06/98 +0000, Gordon wrote: >Meep! I think 3-4 is ideal, but no division when there's just 3 >players? IMC I'm having trouble getting the three of them involved in >doing stuff together, this is after characters not talking to each >other for months...(in between a couple of adventures at the start of >the alphatian-glantrian war...was nasty stuff...) You mean the players or the PCs not talking to each other? Anyway, i've experienced the same problem BUT only with High level PCs, and that's understandable (they've got their own dominions and projects, so there must be something really important to unite them for adventuring...). >There's an interesting book called something like "Grooming, gossip >and the evolution of language", which has some interesting reasons >for why 4 people may be the best number of people to have in a group >(inc DM, er, GM, so we don't have to have Marco at *every* game :) ) Hey, why don't you want me attending games? *with croaking voice* Ye don't know what ye'r missing, sonny! ;) >Also, just out of curiosity, I rekon most people here are DM's, is >anyone on the list just a player? I for one am (a) DM, and i GM two groups (starting a third one in a matter of weeks): one with 8 PCs of expert level (good roleplayers) and another one with 6 PCs of Master level (good strategists and powermongers ;)). As you can see, i'm pretty used at having many gamers, though i reckon it's difficult to handle them all and avoid sleepy moments for some of them while others are engaged in difficult situations.. But i like it this way: the best number would be 5-6 players, judging from my experience. As for why we are all GMs here, well, it's easy: GMs create the world, Players LIVE it, and since this list deals mainly with backstage of Mystara, players should not be interested (also for the sake of their GM). DM "We're all Masters after all..." -a hin during a Masters' meeting *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 09:42:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Dominique Rivard Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics of Rad (was: Cure for Amputations?) - ---paul dooley wrote: > > > >Is there any clerics of Rad somewhere on Mystara? > > > Must be some surely else why list their benefits? To conform to the WotI rules? ;o) == Tharquil's French D&D Homepage at http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/5201 _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 17:47:32 +0000 (GMT) From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Gaming group structure >Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 18:09:19 +0200 >From: DM >Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Gaming group structure >To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM >Reply-to: mystara-l@MPGN.COM >At 10.47 17/06/98 +0000, Gordon wrote: >>Meep! I think 3-4 is ideal, but no division when there's just 3 >>players? IMC I'm having trouble getting the three of them involved in >>doing stuff together, this is after characters not talking to each >>other for months...(in between a couple of adventures at the start of >>the alphatian-glantrian war...was nasty stuff...) > >You mean the players or the PCs not talking to each other? Anyway, i've >experienced the same problem BUT only with High level PCs, and that's >understandable (they've got their own dominions and projects, so there must >be something really important to unite them for adventuring...). PC's not talking to each other, I can't get the players to shut up :) It was a really good adventure which had the three of them on edge for a lot of the time...all three of them wrote about it at.. http://seija.ucd.ie/dnd/glantri/jan/tower.html http://seija.ucd.ie/dnd/glantri/alonzo/oxhill/ http://seija.ucd.ie/dnd/glantri/moskva/soe/ They still have arguments about it :) Well, they did until one of my players left for the summer...grrr... And yeah, it's mainly because of the High level thing...they all have their own agendas now, and they're sometimes at odds with each other too...never mind wanting to go to different parts of the city, they're often hundreds of miles apart! (How many Cthulu players does it take to change a light bulb? All of them! Never split the party!) >>There's an interesting book called something like "Grooming, gossip >>and the evolution of language", which has some interesting reasons >>for why 4 people may be the best number of people to have in a group >>(inc DM, er, GM, so we don't have to have Marco at *every* game :) ) > >Hey, why don't you want me attending games? *with croaking voice* Ye don't >know what ye'r missing, sonny! ;) Oh, alright, but you'll have to bring the Coke :) >>Also, just out of curiosity, I rekon most people here are DM's, is >>anyone on the list just a player? > >I for one am (a) DM, and i GM two groups (starting a third one in a matter >of weeks): one with 8 PCs of expert level (good roleplayers) and another >one with 6 PCs of Master level (good strategists and powermongers ;)). As >you can see, i'm pretty used at having many gamers, though i reckon it's >difficult to handle them all and avoid sleepy moments for some of them >while others are engaged in difficult situations.. But i like it this way: >the best number would be 5-6 players, judging from my experience. Phew, that's a lot...I'm never very good at DMing more than 5, someone always seems to get bored or lost, other conversations start and I find it more tricky to keep everyone interested...probably just not used to it I expect... >As for why we are all GMs here, well, it's easy: GMs create the world, >Players LIVE it, and since this list deals mainly with backstage of >Mystara, players should not be interested (also for the sake of their GM). That's true! And yes, the sake of the GM is one reason I try not to let them read up anything on the web! Fortunatly they don't mind...I'd just *have* to know myself...maybe why I'm the GM :) gordon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 13:03:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Savoie Subject: [MYSTARA] - Who's ONLY a player? >Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 10:47:11 +0000 (GMT) >From: Gordon McCormick >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Gaming group structure (was: spellcast >Also, just out of curiosity, I rekon most people here are DM's, is >anyone on the list just a player? For a game published over 10 years ago? Not likely. Surely an owner of D&D would have chanced to read the DM Rulebook by now, and set his feet upon the dark, sinister, Spielbergesque path of a DM. I practiced hard at it, got all the "how to RPG" paperbacks which came out sporadically and ironically never appeared in game- stores as "too simplistic", and after a while did boffo box-office ("When are you running a game? Huh? When?")...except for my adventure called "McDungeons: Over 60 minions serve". That is something worth forgetting. No, don't ask, it's too horrible. :-) - ---Pierre Savoie (ab966@torfree.net) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 09:58:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Dominique Rivard Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics of Rad (was: Cure for Amputations?) - ---Haavard wrote: > IMO, No. The only reference to Clerics of Rad is in WotI. IMC the closest > thing you get to clerics of RAd are his Shepherds. They aren't clerics as > such, but have a similar role. I don't really think Rad cares much for > clerics. After all clerics used to burn mages in Laterre... I can ony agree with you has this as been this way I handled Rad IMC. But I was really curious to see if someone did something different. == Tharquil's French D&D Homepage at http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/5201 _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 13:17:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Savoie Subject: [MYSTARA] - Thoughts on Adventure Scripting The "Beat" System for Adventure Design I just read something interesting for adventure design in the DREAM PARK RPG (R.Talsorian Games, 1992). This game is set in the books of Larry Niven and Steve Barnes, where a virtual-reality park in 2051 is the scene of full-blown adventures in and out of the vast gaming domes. But notes exist to turn this concept into part of a fantasy game, using magic-users and illusionists for the effects. To script an adventure, they use a concept called a "Beat Chart" which they claim is similar to what TV writers do. The idea is to carefully alternate sections of thought and action, so that the game never becomes a mindless bloodfest nor bogs down out of cerebral boredom. Each Beat Chart has five parts, or Beats, the manageable chunks of the story. It always begins with a Hook, and ends with a Climax and Resolution: - --Hook: a short piece of action as the starting-point, used to involve the players. Examples listed: Kidnapped, Play a Cliffhanger, Play a Development, Discovery, Crisis, Revelation, Murder, False Accusation of the PCs, Looming Threat. - --Development: non-action Beats such as clues, revelations, conversations and character developments. Examples given: Warning, Hidden Weakness of Opposition Revealed, Revelation, Advantage Revealed for the PCs, Clue (an ambiguous revelation), Retreat of the Opposition, Mistaken Identity, Villain's Monologue, Alliance, Betrayal, Sabotage, Foreshadowing, Puzzle, etc. - --Cliffhangers: action scenes such as chases, dogfights, battles, ambushes, fights over control of a cockpit, etc. Examples given: Chase (by PCs), Pursuit (PCs chased by Opposition), Race, Fist Fight, Dogfight, Confrontation, Duel, Battle (with progressively tougher levels of opponents), Monster, Ambush, Obstacles, Contest, Skirmish. - --Climax: the big finale. Examples given: Final Revelation (cerebral, like unmasking the murderer when all the suspects are in one room), or Final Battle (the all-out showdown, the largest battle-scene, like the final battle in BRAVEHEART). - --Resolution: a note at the end on the consequences, who rides off into the sunset or whether the villain manages to escape. Examples given: Happy Ending, Villain is Killed, Villain Surrenders, Villain Escapes, Heroes Captured, Heroes Escape, Warning of a Greater Threat. Developments and Cliffhangers always alternate. If the Hook was cerebral and inactive, follow with a Cliffhanger; if the Hook was had a lot of action and battle, follow with a Development. Similarly, if the Climax was action-packed, a Development should precede it (such as a crucial clue as to where to find the villains for the final fight); and conversely if the Climax was more mental, it should be preceded by a Cliffhanger. They recommend that every beat have enough activity for about one half-hour of game-play. So since there is always a Hook, Climax and Resolution, figure out about how many Beats you will need by figuring out how long you want the adventure to last in hours and subtract 1-1/2. If you want to fit an adventure to a single six-hour game-session on Saturday afternoon, for example, you will want 9 other Beats besides Hook, Climax and Resolution. All the above content is (c) 1992 by R.Talsorian Games, and is not meant as a challenge to their copyright, and anything written with this scheme is their property automatically, and... and...oh, that's right, they're not TSR. :-) MAKING NOTES: The ideal note-taking system for designing adventures is NOT in lines or the point-form taught in school, but a blank sheet of paper where you draw a small circle in the center and draw radiating lines around it, adding ideas in "branches" (always writing alternately to the left of a line or below it, depending on branching, so you can always add new lines with text written below or to the left, respectively). Here you're not making notes of a university lecture in its nice, neat sequence; you're trying to create. I learned it in speed-reading/speed-learning class, and it came with a number of suggested "shapes" to represent major types of ideas: person, place, time, procedure, and other terminology like that, to connect various outlines. But the basic thing is that you see all your notes at once, add new ideas wherever you want in the pattern, and even draw squiggly lines across the page to link two ideas together, such as when a clue whispered early in a game becomes vitally important later. That way, I think of what are going to be the major turnings of the game-story I want to write; each is a "chapter" and gets a major line. I start on the line moving from the center to the top of the page, filling in branches to the center. When that is filled up or if I want to turn my attention to another branch, I rotate the whole page to the new branch. If a particular chapter is too big to fit on its 1/6th of a page or whatever, add a new page, with a vertical line from the bottom left slanting sharply up, and horizontal lines (as usual, text written below the line to permit new lines to sprout vertically up from there). This is basically a "zoom" or close-up of one major aorta of the master outline. It's very amorphous and free-form, to help you hang ideas on it, and then write out full text later. But I found I remembered the overall "shape" so well I would run games straight from this outline, as long as I prepared sheets of stats of NPCs for the combats, with blank boxes for their "hit-points left" and stuff. The usual writer's block may apply, but once you decide on the general major branches, and start playing around, filling in stuff, you'll find the ideas come faster and faster. Here is an actual example, not for a D&D game but for CYBERPUNK (I can only write the bare bones here. In the actual example I could scrunch handwriting as small as I wanted): E M (start here, out from the center O xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx then move to next branch)---> H R P E xxxxxxxxxxx I xxxxxxxxxxxxxx C R R x x T x x U x xxxxx 'TUDE x x I x x ITS G xxxxxxxxxx T xxxxxxxxxxx AND x N E TEAM x O D THE x xxxxxxx L x x CYBERPUNK: xxxxxxx xxxxxx x La Femme Nikita x x x xxxxxxxx xxxx x x E T TRAIN x x X H x ING x x P xxxxxxxxE x RUNS x x E x x xxxxx xxxxx x N B x x x xxxxx x x D xxxxxxxxxxxI x x x xxxx xxxxx A x x x G xxxxxx x xxxxx x B x x x x x x L J x x E xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxO xxxxxxxx ! B x This CYBERPUNK 2020 outline is of course a copy of the plot of the French film LA FEMME NIKITA and its execrable American copy POINT OF NO RETURN, where C-punks with no public computer records get recruited by a governmental training facility called "The Team" and groomed for undercover work in assassination, leading up to the main event, where they don't realize they are expendable (first rule of assassination: assassinate the assassins. No witnesses.) Hence the major headings Recruited: How PCs would likely get contacted The Team and its 'Tude: Details of the team, facility floorplans, the training Training Runs: Various jobs which look like mini-scenarios The Big Job: The main politikill assignment Expendable!: PCs realize the job was not set up as smoothly as usual for their escape plans! The Long Trip Home: Struggle. Tension. Resourcefulness. Good inspiration for this situation is the film about gangs called WARRIORS, where a group has been falsely accused of killing New York City's most admired gang overlord, and must return home through hostile territory. Then each branch and sub-branch of the outline handles the sequence of the story, or even ideas out of sequence, verbal or pictorial. Sub-branches must be written in short words and branched in turn. No need to write long strings of adjectives; you probably fill this in from your vocabulary later in play. In the branch for "The Team and its 'Tude" I actually doodled a minuscule but great 3-floor floorplan within the outline sheet and expanded it into an actual map later, covering everything seen in the movies such as the secretive access entrance, the living cubicles for prospective "agents", the Dojo, firing range and ops/computer room. Try it, you'll like it! - ---Pierre Savoie (ab966@torfree.net) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 13:23:55 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Jesse LaBranche wrote: > Alright Max, they're called rocks. Now a 10.5 strength Storm Giant would > be able to pick up a larger rock, but not a heavier one. No reason to get sarcastic. > with a lower strength. A 7' person has better leverage and can lift larger > items, but this doesn't mean that he can lift heavier weight or do more But a Storm Giant is 24 feet tall. And an average one can obviously pick up rocks of greater than 600 pounds (larger than the olympic record). (Considering they are supposed to be able to toss boulders, and 24' tall is nothing to laugh at. Think realism, not rules. *Average* giants are stronger than the strongest humans. PERIOD! > make the D&D game more enjoyable and vice versa. Since the two systems are > so compatible why not exploit the advantages of both ? Because I see no advantage in using a different system. Remember, ability scores aren't always equal. An 18 Cha Orc is beautiful to other Orcs, but hideous to Humans. Why can't this apply to strength also? Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 13:29:06 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D On Wed, 17 Jun 1998, Marc-Antoine Guidault wrote: > Beware not to melt 2 things : pure strength and power ... We can understand > it as : I think I may have done that. But My whole recentering arguement depends on STR = raw force that the creature can produce relative to his race. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 13:30:52 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Day of Dread (was Almanac/Glantri) On Wed, 17 Jun 1998, paul dooley wrote: > Is it really? How come all 5 Heirarchs seem to take such an interest in > Mystara then? Maybe it IS the centre of the Mystaraverse, and no Kahn; I beleive that Mystara is so popular is because it produces most Immortals. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 13:31:52 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D On Wed, 17 Jun 1998, paul dooley wrote: > IIRC PC1 said something about strength being relative to those of same > species then said about a centaur and a pixie or some such but no rule > just common sense Centaur > Pixie just as Storm Giant > Human. See. Common Sense. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 13:35:26 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Strength (was: Skills in D&D) On Wed, 17 Jun 1998, DM wrote: > weapons one can wield one or two handed. Seems complicated, but it's not :) No, it isn't, and it's exactly what I do IMC's. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 12:01:13 -0700 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Who's ONLY a player? At 01:03 PM 6/17/98 -0400, Pierre Savoie wrote: >>Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 10:47:11 +0000 (GMT) >>From: Gordon McCormick >>Also, just out of curiosity, I rekon most people here are DM's, is >>anyone on the list just a player? > > For a game published over 10 years ago? Not likely. [...] While I, myself, DM one Mystara campaign, and am a 'simple' player in 2 other Mystara campaigns (one oD&D format, one AD&D), there are three members of our 'gaming group' who are and always have been players only. One, Ann, plays in my own campagin. One, John, played in the two other games, but has just recently and unavoidably left off playing with us. The other, Kristine, plays in all three current games (she's my best friend and also the wife of one of the other DM's). Ann and John don't even own any of their own o/AD&D resources but just enjoy playing the game with the rest of us. On the other hand, Kris has expressed an interest in DM'ing, but has decided to wait until such a time when we aren't all already involved in oodles of games. On the original topic, I suspect, as has been stated by someone else, that most of us are DM's of Mystara (though we may also be Players in someone else's Mystara campaign), because this list is more about the 'background mysteries' of Mystara than it is about what PC's 'live through'. And if you're 'just a PC', the topics of conversation would often be above and beyond what you needed to know to play the game with your DM. Jenni - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield http://www.jamm.com/jenni/home.html - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- strawberry@jamm.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 12:12:28 -0700 From: "Harvey, MichaelX" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Jesse LaBranche wrote: > The 4d6 method strongly favors higher stats, and does not show a > balanced increase. If I have a 17 and put a slot in it gives me a 1% > gain (unlike a 5% on the d20 method). I disagree: 4d6 favors LOWER stats. With 1d20 you need a score of 18 to get a 90% chance of success, while 4d6 only requires a score of 14. This means that "average" characters (the bulk of NPCs) can have good skills, and players who roll up "average" characters are more likely to be satisfied with those scores. With 1d20 either players are eager for higher scores to improve their skills, or skills are neglected because the chance of failure is so high. I also like the "non-balanced" increase. As a player I'd never sink extra skill slots into a skill for a mere 5% increase, when I could get a whole new skill for the same price. This system hopefully encourages players to specialize in a few really good skill, instead of slowly become a jack-of-all-trades. Anyway, thanks to everyone for the comments. I don't expect everyone to like it, and in fact it probably appeals mostly to people (like me) who have spent some time playing HERO or GURPS. Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 15:27:08 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The First Annual MML 24 Hour Tournament! << Well, for such a grand event, I would probably rent us a room at a convention center or something. If the Shriners can run amuck, why can't we? >> I can assure that I will not be in Idaho in the foreseeable future. Many other neither, I presume. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 15:27:13 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen << Khan are you attempting to gain Immortal status in the Sphere of Partisanship? >> What a charming idea... :-) Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 15:27:14 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen << Thats why IIRC those Glantrian mages are 3rd level. Try to find an invisible line waiting in ambush cos their mates have cast invisibility on the horses they come in from the sides whilst your facing the VISIBLE foes. Gee advanced battlefield tactics almost Ethengarian wouldn`t you say! <;-P >> The point is, why are all those tactic directed against Ethengar? Why are some more MML members planning to kill the Glantrinians and to counter the Glantrinian tactics? Oh, this tactic of you: The khans will send the brataks who would find those mages. When the fighter will attack, they come, shoot some volleys of arrows and are gone again. Jamuga Khan "The Mighty Khan ask you for suggestions, oh master tacticians." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 16:35:19 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D In a message dated 6/17/98 12:19:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time, vanquer@softhome.net writes: > The difference between an Ogre and a Human is one of a couple of feet > and a point of Strength. Just to add to this: I hope we all realize that it is possible for a human to be stronger than an ogre. Certain races may be stronger on the average, but all races have weak and strong members. a human could possibly have a str. of 3. Now this feeble fellow would be weaker than many things most would consider far inferior or weaker than humans. On the other hand, a human with a strength of 18 or 18/00, will be able to defeat many ogres in tests of strength. Definitely not the most powerful of ogres, but many of them will have a str of 18 or less. This is AD&D of course, but as Jesse said, it can be easily adapted to OD&D for an easier system to understand and calculate than the OD&D system. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 16:35:20 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D In a message dated 6/17/98 7:02:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ezaqwazy@hotmail.com writes: > > However if we`re talking a game using only 3d6 for stats then 14+ is a > really good score. A 14 is slightly above average. Above 14 is obviously a really good score as the number keeps getting higher...... > Anyhow as a GM surely you would allow anyone with a > skill to perform everyday tasks with it without rolling wouldn't you? Yes, but would you allow a character with a low score to attempt something extremely difficult? Such as lifting a portcullis with his bare hands? I realize that the question is unrelated, just curious as to how you would handle that situation. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 16:35:21 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D In a message dated 6/17/98 3:24:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, michaelx.harvey@intel.com writes: > > I also like the "non-balanced" increase. As a player I'd never sink extra > skill slots into a skill for a mere 5% increase, when I could get a whole > new skill for the same price. This system hopefully encourages players to > specialize in a few really good skill, instead of slowly become a > jack-of-all-trades. Well, what if a character has a 16 or 17 and wants to know that skill better. They won't be any better in the game mechanics at all. This forces them to chose a new skill. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #432 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Thursday, June 18 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 433 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Strength (was: Skills in D&D) Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Gaming group structure (was: spellcast Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen [MYSTARA] - Character sheet Re: [MYSTARA] - Powerful beings and an lack of activity Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen Re: [MYSTARA] - Age on the list Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen RE: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - The First Annual MML 24 Hour Tournament! Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - The First Annual MML 24 Hour Tournament! Re: [MYSTARA] - Strength (was: Skills in D&D) Re: [MYSTARA] - Age on the list Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics of Rad (was: Cure for Amputations?) Re: [MYSTARA] - Encyclopedia of Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - The big Boom (Was: Deformed Shadowelves) Re: [MYSTARA] - Powerful beings and an lack of activity ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 16:35:21 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Strength (was: Skills in D&D) In a message dated 6/17/98 12:03:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mdalmonte@provincia.ra.it writes: >first of all, the effective lift capacity of a person varies with his strength and size. So, for example, a 18 STR 4' halfling and a 18 STR 6' human won't have the same lift capacity, even though they both will deal 3 points of damage with their fists. In the PH, an 18 str human and halfling would both deal the same damage AND have the same lift gates roll. >So, if the STR value is the same, the >size is what really matters, but only to a certain degree. For example again, a 6' human with STR 10 is weaker than a 15 or 16 STR halfling, but roughly equal to a 13-14 STR halfling, IIRC. I don't agree with this. Why would they do the same damage yet one can perform feats of strength to a stronger degree than the other? >Second thing: some races and creatures not only benefit from their great size (giants and dragons), but they're also able to surpass the "human" natural limit, and have scores that range beyond 18, especially regarding STR. For example, IMC Hill Giants have 18 STR, Rock G. 19, Fire G. 20 and Sea Giants 21 IIRC. Do you allow for a spread in strength range though? Such as how a human may have 3-18. Do you have a range for giants in your campaign? - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 16:35:15 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D In a message dated 6/16/98 9:42:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, eand@WPI.EDU writes: >But PC storm Giants don't automatically get 24 str. They get 3d6 just like the rest of us (i'm still talking oD&D.) Okay, my mistake, I thought this was dealing with AD&D. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 19:20:14 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Gaming group structure (was: spellcast >Another thought. Hasn`t anyone done a Mystara PBeM I`m sure that those on this list would love to get involved with such. Mind you I`ve never played in let alone run a PBeM so I could be talking through my hat about this, but if someone has I`d like to here more <;-P It's not quite what you meant, but I run a Mystaran Birthright PBEM, with the rules from Birthright setting. There, every player controls a country (or another organization) in the Known World. Check out my webpage if you are interested, I have some places open. ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html Join the Mystaran Birthright PBEM at the above website! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 16:59:51 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D On Wed, 17 Jun 1998 Inconu@aol.com wrote: >On the other hand, a human with a strength of 18 or 18/00, will be able to defeat many ogres in tests of strength. Definitely not the most powerful of I'm sure, an exceptional human can beat an average ogre in a wrestling match. And an above average Ogre would be a match for the exceptional human. But its more of a question like this: Andre the Giant picked up Hulk Hogan like he was a playtoy. Hulk strained for a LONG while to get Andre high enough to toss him. I'm sure that Hulk in his prime could be considered a normal human of 18 STR. Let's call Andre an average Ogre, since he's not actually an ogre, he just played on in the WWF. Point-match-game. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 17:05:40 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D >>But PC storm Giants don't automatically get 24 str. They get 3d6 just like the rest of us (i'm still talking oD&D.) /me never talks about AD&D, unless i can help it. Thus my recentering arguement. the 3-18 is relative to one's own race. Not to anyone else's race. Thus an 18 STR storm giant is the strongest Storm Giant around, and a heck of a lot stronger than an 18 STR human, the strongest human around. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 23:41:06 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen At 15.27 17/06/98 EDT, JamugaKhan@aol.com wrote: >The point is, why are all those tactic directed against Ethengar? Why are some more MML members planning to kill the Glantrinians and to counter the Glantrinian tactics? Just a note. Jamuga, I'm on this list since January 1996 and I don't recall any discussion involving Ethengar (either in favour or against) before you came here. If I were you I would start thinking about becoming Glantrian, maybe the MML will start attack Glantri then... :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 22:39:07 +0100 From: elrond@post.olivant.fo (Jakup Michaelsen) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Character sheet Please, does anyone have a character sheet for OD&D? Jakup *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 17:46:37 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Powerful beings and an lack of activity In a message dated 98-06-15 13:53:25 EDT, scy2g@watt.seas.virginia.edu writes: << DM pontificated: >DM (who's wondering how much could he be forced to pay to TSR if they sued him for using their DM trademark...) Consider Thomas Dolby (which is his real name), was sued by Dolby Audio, it might be best you don't let TSR find out about you :). John Yu >> Actually his name was not really Thomas Dolby. Dolby labs sued him over the adotpion of the name. He got the Dobly tag, from school chums for his tendency to carry about a portable tape recorder. Got that bit off VH-1's Pop UP Video. The episode dealt with the song/video "She Blinded Me With Science". Note- This is not an attack against John. Monday June 15th I underwent shoulder surgery. An operation thayt saw the removal of one rib, scar tissue, and fibrous nerve tissue. Aside from an open incision, I also have lost the ability to use my right hand. Hopefully this will be temporary as the nerves mend. In fact, i just got released from the hospital earlier today anf have several days worth of mail to monitor. My responses will be few and brief. This being that i am having to respond by keying with only my left hand. My posting will be limited and John's post seemed an excellent opportunity to present this problem in a serious manner. Besides, how many times can Thomas Dolbey come up on the MML. Seriously, to my knowledge and VH-1, the above id for Tomas Dolbey is not his true name, instead deriding from a nickname. IIRC he and dolby labs duked it out in court. i think they settled out of court. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 17:40:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen At 03:27 PM 6/17/98 EDT, you wrote: >The point is, why are all those tactic directed against Ethengar? Why are some more MML members planning to kill the Glantrinians and to counter the Glantrinian tactics? I believe I mentioned before that I'm not a big fan of Glantri at the moment. However, I'm not going to go out of my way to attack them. I just want Ludwig. When he's been taken care of, we'll make arrangements to have his head sent to Ethengar as a memento. While I'm up there, Khan, we might have some time to go Heldann hunting. :-) Now, if the Glantrians get in my way, there will be words exchanged...but I hope to avoid such unpleasantness. I'm sure the Glantrians will be reasonable once we've worked out any problems (and fees; I'm going to have to bring the entire Karamekian treasury along when I get to Glantri to pay all the damned fees). Sir Alexius Dannelaran Knight of the Griffon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 23:46:39 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Age on the list At 20.58 16/06/98 -0600, Leroy Van Camp III wrote: >There are no actual subscription records or anything. The closest thing I could think of would be to track down your first post in the digest. I've a list of MML members dated June 1996 and another one dated October 1996. Unfortunately those lists give only the subscriber's name and not the date of subscription, but at least you'll know that you had subscribed before a certain date. BTW: the list was created in summer 1995, right? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 17:58:13 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spellcasting Bards and Naff Thieves My problem with playing theives has always been that i have a tendency to stack them with magic items thus making them less fun to play. one solution i came up with was to go ahead and allow the use of short swords to give them an offensive punch. this also caiused problems as rules were quoted from the books.so, it was easier to just forego thieves. note- sorry about the lower case letters. alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 15:11:49 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D >However if we`re talking a game using only 3d6 for stats then 14+ is a really good score. Anyhow as a GM surely you would allow anyone with a skill to perform everyday tasks with it without rolling wouldn`t you? A blacksmith shouln`t have to roll each time he shoes a horse etc. but thats just IMO <;-P Hey Paul, I think you missed something here. 3d6 is used to roll a stat. The 4d6 discussion is for a skill roll. Let's say you have a skill in Blacksmithing based on Strength (15 for example). You roll 4d6 trying to get a 15 or less for success. To answer you question though, I have the Blacksmith roll every time- but modify the difficulty for the task. I'd give the Blacksmith a hearty bonus, but a 20 still fails :-) Later. Jesse. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 18:20:34 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen In a message dated 98-06-16 02:15:29 EDT, Kaviyd@aol.com writes: << Actually, I am surprised nobody mentioned range considerations -- but that is actually a matter of tactical maneuvering. I suppose that the Ethengarians would win if they can ensure that they are close enough to shoot their bows but too far away for the Glantrians to cast spells at them -- but of course their foes would do their best to prevent such a situation from occurring. >> ::whistles with a cheshire grin:: i brought up the range of spells versus range of bows as a part of the old ethie vs. glantri thread that would not die. alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 15:40:31 -0700 From: "Harvey, MichaelX" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Inconu@aol.com wrote: >michaelx.harvey@intel.com writes: >Well, what if a character has a 16 or 17 and wants to know that skill Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 03:27:35 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #433 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 45783671d096063ccaaef5a498d6dd4f >better. They won't be any better in the game mechanics at all. This forces them to chose a new skill. Yes they do improve, but only about 1% or so. Not to be argumentative, but if you're already at 96 to 97%, why do you need to get better? In the d20 system this is equivalent to about skill 19.5! How much better can you get? I like the fact that characters will usually max out around skill 14-16, as it means they have about a 5% chance of failure. Overall, the 4d6 system makes much less expensive to raise your skills up to 95%. If the old system required you to spend 6 skill slots to go from 13 to 19, the new system requires only 2 skill slots to get from 13 to 15. If you want to get to 20, both systems have an EQUAL cost -- but at every skill level in between, the 4d6 system is cheaper. Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 15:40:31 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D >On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Jesse LaBranche wrote: AAAlright Max, they're called rocks. Now a 10.5 strength Storm Giant would >>be able to pick up a larger rock, but not a heavier one. NNo reason to get sarcastic. Sorry, the sarcasm kind of crept in there. >>with a lower strength. A 7' person has better leverage and can lift larger >>items, but this doesn't mean that he can lift heavier weight or do more BBut a Storm Giant is 24 feet tall. And an average one can obviously pick up rocks of greater than 600 pounds (larger than the olympic record). (Considering they are supposed to be able to toss boulders, and 24' tall is nothing to laugh at. >Think realism, not rules. *Average* giants are stronger than the strongest humans. PERIOD! Thus the *average* giant does have a higher strength than the strongest human. >>make the D&D game more enjoyable and vice versa. Since the two systems are >>so compatible why not exploit the advantages of both ? BBecause I see no advantage in using a different system. If a rule is not covered in OD&D and it is in AD&D then why not bring an AD&D ruling over ? I do this with at least 5 different systems regularly and one of them is D&D rules into my AD&D game. >Remember, ability scores aren't always equal. An 18 Cha Orc is beautiful to other Orcs, but hideous to Humans. >Why can't this apply to strength also? >Max IV Charisma is in the eye of the beholder, while strength is measured in cold hard indisputable facts. Something that I was thinking you might try is rolling the 3d6, then doubling the score for a Storm Giant. This would allow them anywhere between a 6 and 36 strength. If 6 is too low, another concept might be to roll 3d6 and add 12 to the roll, this would generate a 15-30. Then use the Immortals rules to get the stat modifiers for the higher stat. IMO strength should match strength and there should be modifiers to strength based on things like muscle structure and sheer size. Leverage should remain a non game mechanic that is logical. Later. Jesse. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 19:11:33 EDT From: BoBoII@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - The First Annual MML 24 Hour Tournament! In a message dated 06/17/98 2:39:47 PM, you wrote: < Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D At 08:52 PM 6/16/98 -0700, Jesse LaBranche wrote: JJJesse: Also, I have to agree that I agree with your response to J. Daly about sstrength not being related to size and the limitations on a Hobbit (Oops. Halfling) and a Storm Giant. Now wait a minute here! I was just describing how it is done in my game...there was no real disagreement. My only point is, realistically, size and strength both play a part in damage. Others have made the point better than me I think, with the comments on leverage and whatnot. And I am not even saying whether this factor should be taken into account or not...only that in the real world it is. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 20:20:01 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D On Wed, 17 Jun 1998, Jesse LaBranche wrote: >If a rule is not covered in OD&D and it is in AD&D then why not bring an AD&D ruling over ? I do this with at least 5 different systems regularly and one of them is D&D rules into my AD&D game. Because I try to deny the fact that AD&D exists :) No offense intended, it isn't a bad game system, but it is a bit too-inclusive for my tastes. I understand your arguement though. AD&D does have strength that goes up to however high. That is so all beings in the AD&D universe can have strengths measured on the same scale. I prefer that all PC races roll 3d6 for strength. That number corresponds to how strong the member of that race is in relation to others of his/her race. Humans/Demihumans/human sized creatures use the same scale for the strength attribute. Large Humanoids don't their 3-18 scale corresponds to 5-20 on the human scale. I've never had a storm Giant PC, neither would I let a PC be a Storm Giant, so that whole argement was a pretty poor example. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 20:20:50 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - The First Annual MML 24 Hour Tournament! On Wed, 17 Jun 1998 BoBoII@aol.com wrote: >If you ever make it Khan, you'll have to play . . . The Glantrian Mage! Agh! Lose 5 SAN just for saying that! Max IV - CoC anyone? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 20:34:01 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Strength (was: Skills in D&D) Marco said: Marco - You've GOT to share this!!!!!! I'd put this on my page!!!!!!!!!! It's exactly what I'm looking for - IMC (which is dormant right now) I have a couple of former Rolemaster players, both of whom are sometimes shocked to find out that there is one standard movement rate range for all classes/races (based only on what you're carrying), and that there are no comprehensive lists of herbs. I merely chortle about the herbs (What! You mean we've got to shell out ANOTHER 250 gp for a healing potion?!?! No free herbs?!?!? *groan*). Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 20:35:47 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Age on the list Fabrizio said: >I've a list of MML members dated June 1996 and another one dated October 1996. Unfortunately those lists give only the subscriber's name and not the date of subscription, but at least you'll know that you had subscribed before a certain date. Cool! Do you think you can share these? >BTW: the list was created in summer 1995, right? I think I heard someone say that.... Geoff >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 02:49:21 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics of Rad (was: Cure for Amputations?) On Wed, 17 Jun 1998, paul dooley wrote: >>Is there any clerics of Rad somewhere on Mystara? >Must be some surely else why list their benefits? "Maybe Aaron Allston thought it fit nicely into his system or maybe he thought that these are the abilities zat I, would give my clerics if I had any. However, I do not wish to be associated wiz such ghastly creatures. Zey are a dizgrace to l'humanite. Bakc on Laterre zey used to burn honourable mages. Outrageous. I will have nothing to do with such people." -Rad. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 02:51:07 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Encyclopedia of Mystara? On Wed, 17 Jun 1998, Mischa E Gelman wrote: >Well, it would be similar, but be more for newbies than for experienced Mystarans. The almanac gives information on changes in the setting and on statistical data about countries more than a synopsis of the country thatr summarizes the land. I don't know if that's drawing too fine a line there.. >Anyhow, the idea that I have would also include other basic Mystaran info, including the past (Blackmoor being the most common point) that is inappropriate for a yearly almanac as well as more detail on key figures like Thincol or Duke Stefan. Perhaps a Who's Who and What's What of Mystara would be a good description of what I had in mind (which need not be the limits on the entire project) Would you like it to be a webencyclopedia or more like a doc-format atlas? I think I would prefer the latter. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 02:58:26 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The big Boom (Was: Deformed Shadowelves) On Wed, 17 Jun 1998, Wolfgang Razen wrote: >><< The question is, how did the great Rain of Fire happen ? >> >>For my own take on this check out my History of Blackmoor, found on Shawn Stanley's website as well as on my own, poor, neglected site... >Thanx for not including the URL-Sites... (Sarcasm off) >Nice for this hint, but I dont have those two sites ready, so I have to wait another millenia... You should ask the Seer of the Lake of Lost Souls. "http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/index.html" -Shawn Stanley. "http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/1437/" - Mystaros. If youre wondering how I know this, check my mystara-link page. Youll find it following the link in my sig. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 03:27:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Powerful beings and an lack of activity Alex295@aol.com pontificated: >Actually his name was not really Thomas Dolby. Dolby labs sued him over the adotpion of the name. He got the Dobly tag, from school chums for his tendency to carry about a portable tape recorder. Got that bit off VH-1's Pop UP Video. The episode dealt with the song/video "She Blinded Me With Science". Humm, I thought I learned about it on VH1 too. How could this be? TV, my master, has lied to me? John yu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #433 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Thursday, June 18 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 434 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Weight measure in the almanac. [MYSTARA] - D&D-inspired music? Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics of Rad (was: Cure for Amputations?) Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D [MYSTARA] - PBEM Mystara (was......oh drat I forgot.....) Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - The First Annual MML 24 Hour Tournament! Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics of Rad (was: Cure for Amputations?) [MYSTARA] - Find Familiar author Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics of Rad (was: Cure for Amputations?) Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics of Rad (was: Cure for Amputations?) Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Weight measure in the almanac. Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics of Rad (was: Cure for Amputations?) Re: [MYSTARA] - Age on the list [more digest stuff] Re: [MYSTARA] - Age on the list Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics of Rad (was: Cure for Amputations?) Re: [MYSTARA] - One Final Post Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 04:00:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: [MYSTARA] - Weight measure in the almanac. I noted in couple of places in the 1015 almanac, that kilogram is used as the weight unit. I like SI units, but to me it seems to be a bit out of place in a fantasy setting, as it is a bit too "modern". Does anyone else feels the same way? John Yu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 05:18:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Savoie Subject: [MYSTARA] - D&D-inspired music? A mainstream pop release that incessantly chants "Roll the Twelve-Sided Dice"? Strange, but true. The first album of the Toronto rap duo DREAM WARRIORS, "And Now the Legacy Begins" (1991, Island Records) contained many references to D&D and fantasy fiction in songs like "And Now the Legacy Begins", "Voyage Through the Multiverse", "Journey On" and "Twelve Sided Dice". One local reviewer, though, didn't understand, and said it was "B-movie imagery." Does anybody know of any other pop music that makes as blatant a reference to D&D? - ---Pierre Savoie (ab966@torfree.net) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 12:04:51 +0200 From: Marc-Antoine Guidault Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics of Rad (was: Cure for Amputations?) >Håvard said ... >"Maybe Aaron Allston thought it fit nicely into his system or maybe he thought that these are the abilities zat I, would give my clerics if I had any. However, I do not wish to be associated wiz such ghastly creatures. Zey are a dizgrace to l'humanite. Bakc on Laterre zey used to burn honourable mages. Outrageous. I will have nothing to do with such people." -Rad. Rad has perhaps followers (clerics) but under an another name (Just think the god a jew, christian and moslem is the same as every scriptures said...). Marcus PS : Håvard, i don't know if the text is a French pronouciation, but if it's, you'd better come here for soccer world cup ... you'll learn things ;-) PS2 : I should go to states to learn English ... *** Marc-Antoine Guidault (mag@mel.teamlog.fr) http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/7837 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 06:57:55 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D In a message dated 6/17/98 5:11:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, eand@WPI.EDU writes: >Andre the Giant picked up Hulk Hogan like he was a playtoy. >Hulk strained for a LONG while to get Andre high enough to toss him. Andre was over 500lbs. Hogan was in the upper 200s. There's no way Andre could've picken up another Andre. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 06:57:57 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D In a message dated 6/17/98 8:31:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, eand@WPI.EDU writes: >>If a rule is not covered in OD&D and it is in AD&D then why not bring an >>AD&D ruling over ? I do this with at least 5 different systems regularly and >>one of them is D&D rules into my AD&D game. >Because I try to deny the fact that AD&D exists :) No offense intended, it isn't a bad game system, but it is a bit too-inclusive for my tastes. Don't you think that it's being a little close-minded not to take one rule from AD&D just because it's AD&D? Who cares? If it adds to your game then you should employ it. It would make sense to at least try out the rule in a campaign to see if it helps. No? >I've never had a storm Giant PC, neither would I let a PC be a Storm Giant, so that whole argement was a pretty poor example. Not really. There may be a time where a PC and NPC storm giant would meet. What would you use in that scenario? - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 06:46:48 PDT From: "Spencer Graham" Subject: [MYSTARA] - PBEM Mystara (was......oh drat I forgot.....) I'm up for playing in (not adjucating) a PBEM Mystara game. Spencer >From: "paul dooley" Another thought. Hasn`t anyone done a Mystara PBeM I`m sure that those on this list would love to get involved with such. Mind you I`ve never played in let alone run a PBeM so I could be talking through my hat about this, but if someone has I`d like to here more <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 08:08:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Dominique Rivard Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - The First Annual MML 24 Hour Tournament! >If you ever make it Khan, you'll have to play . . . The Glantrian Mage! He surely be the best of all for all the tricks you're giving him ;o) == Tharquil's French D&D Homepage at http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/5201 _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 11:25:31 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D On Thu, 18 Jun 1998 Inconu@aol.com wrote: >Andre was over 500lbs. Hogan was in the upper 200s. There's no way Andre could've picken up another Andre. Don't be too sure. But then again, he died before many other VERY huge wrestlers could challenge him. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 08:14:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Dominique Rivard Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics of Rad (was: Cure for Amputations?) Håvard wrote: >On Wed, 17 Jun 1998, paul dooley wrote: >>>Is there any clerics of Rad somewhere on Mystara? >>Must be some surely else why list their benefits? >"Maybe Aaron Allston thought it fit nicely into his system or maybe he thought that these are the abilities zat I, would give my clerics if I had any. However, I do not wish to be associated wiz such ghastly creatures. Zey are a dizgrace to l'humanite. Bakc on Laterre zey used to >burn honourable mages. Outrageous. I will have nothing to do with such people." -Rad. Immortals tend to have long memories, don't they? ;o) == Tharquil's French D&D Homepage at http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/5201 _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 11:32:27 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Find Familiar author Hello everyone, I am looking for the person who wrote the D&D version of the Find Familiar spell. I plan to host this on my website, and, unfortunately, I do not have the author's name and email address. I have comments by Wizzard, Galwylin, and Inconnu, but not the original author. So, whoever you are, please let me know as soon as possible, so I can credit you appropriately for your work. Thanks, Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 11:35:09 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D On Thu, 18 Jun 1998 Inconu@aol.com wrote: >from AD&D just because it's AD&D? Who cares? If it adds to your game then you Ok, let me give an example. The AD&D Strength system allows for strengths above 18, n'cest pas? Are the bonuses the same as on the immortal's chart? IF they aren't I'd have to change them to be compatible with the Immortal's chart, since i'm not recalculating all the way up to 100!! If I change them, does the ruling still hold water? Possibly not! Therefore, I may use the Strength bonuses (ogres get +2, etc.) to define the centering point of hat race (ergo, on a human scale, the average Ogre would have a strength of 12.5, not 10.5.) But the Ogre's scores, relative to other Ogres would still be 3-18. Maybe in deference to confusion, I'd put a little +2 modifier near the score. It seems to me, to reatin oD&D logic, and to save me a LOT of hassle to say that 3d6 is the roll for all races. (just like in the gaz's/CC's) But like PC1 says, strength scores are relative to race. Not relative to one set standard, which doesn't work for me in D&D (however, conversely, it works for me in Palladium RPGs.. Could be habit.) >Not really. There may be a time where a PC and NPC storm giant would meet. What would you use in that scenario? Well, if they, for some reason wanted a test of Strength, I'd obviously, unless the PC was somehow equipped with some major magical gear, let the Giant win. Remember, it's all DM's call. Max IV - -- ("`_/")_.-'"``-._ E.A.Deneault "Sanity is the . . )`-._ )-,;-,_`) PH/MU '99 playground of the (v_,)' _ )`-.\ ``-' eand@wpi.edu unimaginative" _.- _..-_/ / ((.' http://homebase.res.wpi.net ((,.-' ((,/ -Simba *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 08:41:59 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics of Rad (was: Cure for Amputations?) >>. I don't really think Rad cares much for ccclerics. After all clerics used to burn mages in Laterre... but they would give him a entirely new powerbase elsewhere whouldn`t they? It`s always best not to put too many eggs in one basket, what happens if theres another rock thrown at Glantri. I`m sure the Ethengars pray for such as it`ll make conquest easier ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 09:00:39 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D >Yes, but would you allow a character with a low score to attempt something >extremely difficult? Such as lifting a portcullis with his bare hands? I >realize that the question is unrelated, just curious as to how you would >handle that situation. Well you tell the strongman of the party to get off his bum and do some work, or if you`ve an agricultural background you`ll know all about simple levers and pulleys cos thats how you did it on the farm (side note I once had a GM who only allowed you to use a pulley if you had Engineering skill! Realistic aint it). Trick the guards into opening it for you , disintegrate it the list goes on and on doesn`t it <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 09:11:53 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D >Well, what if a character has a 16 or 17 and wants to know that skill better. >They won't be any better in the game mechanics at all. This forces them to >chose a new skill. The same is true for allthose clerics and horsemanship anyway isn`t it (in AD&D) Wis+3. It`s very rare to see a cleric PC with less than 16 Wis. IMC (AD&D) I use a base score of 10 for all skills with standard+/- in phb and a modifier to the score based on the +/- of relevant statin OD&D. also I give 2point increase per extra slot.I also use the professional grades given in minrothad to judge what can and can`t Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 13:52:11 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #434 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 9a4a1ae397180b7e0ec8e74a88a464d2 easily do, And PC is one level worse because most of time doesn`t practice skill. It seems complicated but it does stop those `OK I spent 3 months learning now I`m a master (whatever)` from my players whilst allowing many years study to equate to mastery, but as I said thats IMCO <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 09:25:57 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics of Rad (was: Cure for Amputations?) >"Maybe Aaron Allston thought it fit nicely into his system or maybe he thought that these are the abilities zat I, would give my clerics if I had any. However, I do not wish to be associated wiz such ghastly creatures. Zey are a dizgrace to l'humanite. Bakc on Laterre zey used to >burn honourable mages. Outrageous. I will have nothing to do with such people." -Rad. But you wont turn them away if they believe in you right. That belief stuff Immortals just LOVE it. <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 09:31:19 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D >>I've never had a storm Giant PC, neither would I let a PC be a Storm Giant, so that whole argement was a pretty poor example. Actually I had a PC storm giant at gencon witha str 36 OD&D obviously and I was the wicca if youall can remember that far back <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 11:29:25 -0500 From: "Kay Ferrell" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D >Andre was over 500lbs. Hogan was in the upper 200s. There's no way Andre could've picken up another Andre. Have to differ with you, as an OLD rasslin' fan, I saw Andre the Giant pick up 2 large wrestlers. Don't recall their names right now. When my husband gets back from Boy Scout Summer Camp, I'll ask him. But I believe their combined weight was around 550 lbs. Kay *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 19:26:17 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Weight measure in the almanac. On Thu, 18 Jun 1998, Shin Chyang Yu wrote: >I noted in couple of places in the 1015 almanac, that kilogram is used as the weight unit. I like SI units, but to me it seems to be a bit out of place in a fantasy setting, as it is a bit too "modern". Does anyone else feels the same way? Au contrare! I love the metric system. Besides, Mystara is supposed to be a Renessance (debatable, I agree), and the metric system is AFAIK a renessance idea. Besides it is a lot easier to use. (Especially for people who are used to it) Juts my opinion. It might be a good idea to be consistent though. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 19:30:06 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics of Rad (was: Cure for Amputations?) On Thu, 18 Jun 1998, Marc-Antoine Guidault wrote: >>Håvard said ... >>"Maybe Aaron Allston thought it fit nicely into his system or maybe he thought that these are the abilities zat I, would give my clerics if I had any. However, I do not wish to be associated wiz such ghastly creatures. Zey are a dizgrace to l'humanite. Bakc on Laterre zey used to burn honourable mages. Outrageous. I will have nothing to do with such people." -Rad. >Rad has perhaps followers (clerics) but under an another name (Just think the god a jew, christian and moslem is the same as every scriptures said...). I dont think he would give them spells. Studying magic is what the ideology of Rad is all about. Giving away spells for free sounds like cheeting. In, Krynn, Mages are "clerics" of the moons. Maybe Rad's "clerics" are similar. >PS : Håvard, i don't know if the text is a French pronouciation, but if it's, you'd better come here for soccer world cup ... you'll learn things ;-) Heheh. It was really late when I wrote that. Besides I dont speak a word french. (okay, I know a couple of words, but spelling is impossible ;) >PS2 : I should go to states to learn English ... me too :) Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 17:07:52 -0700 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Age on the list [more digest stuff] Well I lied about not doing any more research :-) I was just too curious. So I went all the way up to Digest 20 and culled out all the names that appeared. I realize that this isn't going to capture the 'lurkers' out there, but its interesting none-the-less. Digest 20 is date marked Tuesday, 28 November 1995. And as of that digest the following names hadd appeared on the MML either directly or later quoting from the missing digests v01.n001 and v01.002. They appear, roughly, in the order I encountered them: 01. D.J. Sahlas 02. "Orion" [Leroy acting as List Admin] 03. David "Azure" Leland 04. Leroy Van Camp 05. Joseph DuBois (Scooby) 06. John Yu 07. Herve Musseau 08. Zube "Chrysdelarius" 09. Ann Dupuis 10. "Sir George Anonymous" 11. Hickey "Nightshade" Matthew 12. Sven Munther 13. Thomas J. Mahaney II 14. jknotts [no name, only e-dress] 15. Shelby J. Michlin 16. Mischa E. Gelman 17. Bruce Pierpont 18. "Electric Monk" 19. John Horton 20. Oeystein H. Lund 21. Berg [only name given] 22. "Star Hawk" 23. "Sea Wasp" 24. Bill "Urklore the Iron" Schwartz 25. Pasi Anais 26. "Ron & Laura" [Laura was aka "Mistress"] 27. Michael Lewis 28. "Forlak the Sage" 29. "Winter Arcane" 30. Peter Froehlich 31. Reddz Greennish 32. Jason Murphy 33. "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" 34. "Jalroon" 35. Glenn "Knight" Butcher 36. Jenni A. (Mott) Merrifield [Me!] 37. Martin "The Dark Elf." 38. Matt Chatterley Not bad for a start-up time period between approximately Sept 18 and Nov 28, 1995, eh? Jenni - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield http://www.jamm.com/jenni/home.html - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- strawberry@jamm.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 16:07:30 -0700 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Age on the list At 11:46 PM 6/17/98 +0200, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: AAt 20.58 16/06/98 -0600, Leroy Van Camp III wrote: >>There are no actual subscription records or anything. The closest thing I could think of would be to track down your first post in the digest. >I've a list of MML members dated June 1996 and another one dated October 1996. >Unfortunately those lists give only the subscriber's name and not the date of subscription, but at least you'll know that you had subscribed before a certain date. Well, in my case I know that I posted almost immediately after first subscribing because I had a Mystara-specific question that I had originally posted to rec.games.frp.dnd and someone there had then recommended the MML to me. So I joined and posted immediately. My first post to the MML was on "Wed, 22 Nov 1995 15:10:34 -0800 (PST)" and can be found in digest v01.n019 which is accessible online at: http://www.io.com/~ftp/mailing-lists/mystara-digest/v01.n019 In fact, the digests at io.com go almost all the way back to the inception of the MML, except that, for some reason, v01.n001 has been overwritten with the Sunday, February 9 1997 digest, and v01.n002 has been overwritten with the Tuesday, February 11 1997 digest. Note -- v02.n001 and v02.n002 do not exist, so I suspect that when v02 started something got mixed up with the digest numbering... Thus, v01.n003 is the 'first' available digest for the MML and it has a date line of Thursday, 12 October 1995. Statistics about the v01.n003 digest: 1. The first message on that diggest is dated Thu, 5 Oct 1995 and was written by D.J. Sahlas. It is a reply to an earlier message by "Orion" (I believe this was an alternative ID that Leroy used) that was dated Thu, 5 Oct, that asked who had actually integrated WotI into their campaign 1995. 2. Leroy reposted a list of 'potential group projects' for list members since there had been an influx of new subscribers since he had originally posted it. This message listed and gave suggested details for the following items: Mystara FAQ, Mystara Index, Alternate Irendis, New Gazetteers, Mystaraspace, Tourist Guides, Rumours and Adventure Seeds, New Races, Specialty Priests of the Immortals, "Standard Stuff" (Spells, Kits, Monsters, Magic Items, NPC's, etc) 3. One of the major threads was about the 'Dragonlord' Mystara Novels. 4. On Mon, 9 Oct 95 18:27:43 MET Herve Musseau posted his 'welcome bio' to the list. 5. Sir George Anonymous replied to a whole slew of messages from digest v01.n001 one in one long message. The earliest date of any of the reference tag lines was Sept 18, 1995. 6. In total, there were 15 messages in the digest, 4 from D.J. Sahlas, 2 from David "Azure" Leland, 2 from Leroy Van Camp, 2 from Joseph DuBois (Scooby), 1 from John Yu, 1 from Herve, 1 from Zube "Chrysdelarius", 1 from Ann Dupuis [yes, *the* Ann Dupis], and 1 from Sir George Anonymous. 7. As well as the above names, there were references to the following additional names/email in message replies: Orion, Nightshade, Sven Munther, Thomas J Mahaney II and 'jknotts'. Well, that's all the research I'm going to do for now. :-) You can check out the digests yourselves if you want more info. Jenni - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield http://www.jamm.com/jenni/home.html - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- strawberry@jamm.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 19:35:02 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics of Rad (was: Cure for Amputations?) On Thu, 18 Jun 1998, paul dooley wrote: >>"Maybe Aaron Allston thought it fit nicely into his system or maybe he thought that these are the abilities zat I, would give my clerics if I had any. However, I do not wish to be associated wiz such ghastly creatures. Zey are a dizgrace to l'humanite. Bakc on Laterre zey used tto >>burn honourable mages. Outrageous. I will have nothing to do with such people." -Rad. >But you wont turn them away if they believe in you right. That belief stuff Immortals just LOVE it. <;-P "Certainly not! Those mortals with insight enough to follow my word will be rewarded. But I will not give them magic. Only by studying the nature of magic itself, they will realize what responsibility having magical powers is. Trust me, I know.." -Rad (Okay, no funny french in here :P ) Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 19:37:23 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - One Final Post On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Shin Chyang Yu wrote: >Nay, keep on doing it. I been spewing useless stuff for over 2 years too :) I just checked the archive, my first post was on Oct. 7, 95. I was just think couple of days ago that we haven't heard from Azure for a while. There was also someone called Sir George that post quite often when the post first started but disappeared for a long time. Yeah. The more posts, the better. :) I remember George Anonymous too. Too bad these people disappear. It could ba a case for Mulder and Scully ;P Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 13:50:23 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D << Well you tell the strongman of the party to get off his bum and do some work, or if you`ve an agricultural background you`ll know all about simple levers and pulleys cos thats how you did it on the farm (side note I once had a GM who only allowed you to use a pulley if you had Engineering skill! Realistic aint it). Trick the guards into opening it for you , disintegrate it the list goes on and on doesn`t it <;-P >> But what if the PC wanted to lift it with his hands. would you allow a roll? - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #434 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 16:47:32 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #435 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 076f571101d91a25dc5c4e0d6d1cc11e mystara-digest Thursday, June 18 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 435 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Ierendi? (was:- The big Boom) [MYSTARA] - A guide to PBEMs [LONG] Re: [MYSTARA] - Character sheet Re: [MYSTARA] - Age on the list [more digest stuff] Re: [MYSTARA] - Strength (was: Skills in D&D) RE: [MYSTARA] - Character sheet Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics of Rad (was: Cure for Amputations?) RE: [MYSTARA] - Encyclopedia of Mystara? [MYSTARA] - Adakkian Sound settlements ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 19:54:29 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Ierendi? (was:- The big Boom) On Tue, 16 Jun 1998 Mystaros@aol.com wrote: >I will post such information as I can once I get it into a legible format (read: something other than notes and scribbles on post-it notes, notepaper, graph paper and synapses). Been busy working on my Taymoran stuff and my own Midlands write-up (did I ever post anything about Galannor here or in the old AOL section? Can't remember)... But I will get to Ierendi asap... Great! I don't remember anything about Galannor. Have you been following the discussion on here about the Midland forest? Are any of those ideas compatible with yours? Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 14:30:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Savoie Subject: [MYSTARA] - A guide to PBEMs [LONG] >Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 19:20:14 +0300 >From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Gaming group structure (was: spellcast >It's not quite what you meant, but I run a Mystaran Birthright PBEM, with the rules from Birthright setting. There, every player I recently wrote up a guide to running PBEM games, which I freely offer and can be freely posted, as long as it is not altered and the copyright notice is still on it. The essential thing about PBEM is not to let things bog down. I used to try out games on computer Bulletin-Board Systems, and there was *always* something to cause people to lose interest. If you as a DM say you post moves twice a week as a DM, post twice a week. Try to find out how the professional play-by-mail companies manage to sustain interest (and THEY keep players buying turn after turn). Players will have nothing but a screen to stare at, so a colorful player's package of a blank character sheet and maps might be very helpful to sustain interest as well. They'll be very curious, particularly if you include sparse maps of rooms or dungeons the characters haven't been in yet. Preferably there should be at least one region map, and preferably in color and duplicated on a color copier. My thoughts on the subject are below: H O W T O R U N R O L E - P L A Y I N G G A M E S T H R O U G H I N T E R N E T E - M A I L By Pierre Savoie (c) 1998 I want to suggest methods for running role-playing games (RPGs) as play-by-E-mail (PBEM) games. Those game masters (GMs) who are experienced with RPGs in general can easily run a game through the use of E-mail, provided they can get used to a sort of "correspondence" or "play by mail" pace. All the GM and players need are Internet E-mail accounts, accounts which have no major limitations e.g. they allow textfile-sized messages (at least 50K) to pass. 1) Getting Set: First, a GM who wants to run a game should announce the name of his game. If there are several games running, and E-mail alias Sabrtooth wants to run a game of ADVANCED DUNGEONS & DRAGONS (TM) 2nd edition, he should call it "Sabr's AD&D II" game to distinguish it from any other games running concurrently. Or a fancy descriptive title having to do with the story can be used, such as "Sword of Zeldar". Whatever. This GM should of course PLAN his/her game ahead just like an ordinary RPG, then place an announcement in an appropriate mailgroup that they are offering to run such a game. The GM could introduce this game to interested players by E-mailing a textfile which describes several key things about the game: the game rules used, the story background, details on what kind of characters to generate with the character generation method, and if necessary some details on the combat rules. Ideally, the players in a PBEM RPG won't be worried so much about dice-rolling or other "statistics" which occur in a face-to-face RPG. The GM will free up players from any "number chores". However, players must still have a clear idea how skilled their characters are, from looking at the number ratings for their character and how these numbers are used by the game rules. The GM should collect the E-mail addresses of players who show interest in trying this game. Then, to help start the players, the GM should upload more carefully written textfiles concerning the character generation rules, and the general operating rules of the game (e.g. he will only "update" the game situation Thursdays and Sunday nights, but will answer questions any time), house rules, a textfile representing a character sheet which the player must fill in a precise format, etc. The GM should get the players to generate characters. Again, if the game is well known such as AD&D it may be that most players will already have the full rules at home. For more obscure games, or games with variant rules, the GM will have to write up longer textfiles summarizing these rules (especially character generation rules and other important information from the player perspective; other rules sections can be covered in less detail. Don't over-do it!) Character sheets are mostly for the GM's information: at home the GM should make paper copies of character sheets and game notes, and the GM handles all the dice-rolling. For the players, the GM only summarizes combat results once the players have specified verbally what their characters are going to do. TYPES OF PBEM: Computer Bulletin Board Systems (BBSes) were ideal for PBEM games, but have slumped in popularity, and generally covered only a local calling area. Textfiles about the PBEM game went into a file-area because they were lengthy. However, the actual GM-player conversations which constituted the game itself went into their own message-area controlled by the GM. Depending on the PBEM, the GM had to ask the System Operator (SysOp) to open a new message-area (or reassign an older one from an outdated topic). This message-area then had a new title beginning with the letters "RPG:"; in the example above, "RPG: Sword of Zeldar". A similar thing could be run on a homepage on the World-Wide Web. Files can be stored and players can access them with just a click of an icon. Even maps and artwork can be stored for PBEM play! Such a Web-page must have both a message-board facility for people to write messages on-line, and a password system so only the players authorized to play in the game can actually write messages in the "play" message-board. The player-range is worldwide, and messages are immediately visible to all others. One problem is that people must both read and write while "on" the Web-page, often paying hourly rates to their Internet Service Provider. For a more "live" gaming experience, it is possible to arrange sessions in Internet Relay Chat (IRC). The most basic way to play PBEM is by an automated or manual mailing-list. Players send E-mail messages to the GM, who simply relays them by "multi-mail" to all the other players (unless the players specifically say they wants to consult the GM privately). Textfiles as well as messages are stored by the GM, and players obtain textfiles on certain topics by asking the GM to send them. File-size may be an issue if a player's account has E-mail limitations. 2) The Game Messages: The GM draws up an official list of the users who can play in his game; their E-mail addresses are listed in the GM's multi-mail feature, so that whatever he sends to his chosen "game" address is sent to all the players for that game. All PBEM messages for the game *must* be distinguished from E- mail messages in general; this is done by typing a distinctive "tag" at the front of the title, in square-brackets. For Sabrtooth's "Sword of Zeldar" game, this could be [ZELD:]. Messages could thus have titles like "[ZELD:] Scene 31: Approaching the Cliff" or "[ZELD:] Character STR adjustments". A "spectator" is any E-mail address not in the game, who is sent the E-mail messages only to read the game messages but who is not permitted to write them. Role-playing games have never been much of a spectator sport, but even a spectator can have fun reading the messages (which, in a PBEM RPG, tell an ongoing science-fiction or fantasy story). The GM then E-mails any prepared textfiles concerning his game, especially character-generation rules if needed. These are given a DOS filename in the message-title, alerting the players to the need for storing the messages under that filename. If a player misses a textfile, that's no big deal; he/she just asks the GM to E-mail it again. For ordinary "conversation" messages, only the GM is responsible to archive them for reference. The players then generate characters (filling out a standard E-mailed character-sheet form) and present them to the GM privately, and a discussion ensues for any changes or GM questions. After characters have been generated by the players (to the GM's satisfaction or recommendations), the GM kicks off the game by leaving a descriptive message about what happened to the players' characters to get them involved in this story, and the players respond to it by saying what they will have their characters do next. Where necessary, if the GM has a particularly long "scene" description to do, he can write it up as a textfile and E-mail it with a filename. Here are some general principles to PBEM RPGs: 1) Give a clear title to the game to distinguish it from any other game, e.g. RPG: PARANOIA (TM), or Draconian's Dungeon of Dreadful Denizens. E-mails for the PBEM *must* have subject- lines with an abbreviation in square-brackets in front of every single message, called a "tag". The GM specifies what the official "tag" will be. This is very important so the GM and players can both pick out the E-mails having to do with the game in a long list of new E-mails. 2) Give subject-lines for your messages and files which clearly hint at the content of the message, e.g. PARCHRGN.TXT for the character generation rules for a certain PARANOIA variant, "PARANOIA: Character Generation Rules" for a message announcing that the textfile on this topic is available, or "Slip-R-EEE hides in shadows" for a message during play where the player of the PARANOIA character "Slip-R-EEE" describes what Slip-R-EEE does next... 3) KEEP TO THE SUBJECT OF THE GAME in the messages; don't discuss movies or other topics with other users. It is too easy for someone to strike up a conversation, and this leaves a string of messages which has nothing to do with the game. The GM should caution the players to hold irrelevant conversations privately. Players implicitly agree to have their E-mails known to other players; if they want to chat with each other or plot something "out of earshot" of the GM, they should write directly to the other player, not to the GM for multi-mail relay. If they want to "conference" with the GM privately without the other players seeing, their subject line should be something like "[ZELD:] **PRIVATE**". Otherwise, anything they send is assumed to be a public comment, to everyone "around the gaming table." 4) Within the player's E-mail, one important distinction is what they say "in-character", and what they are merely thinking out loud, "out-of-character", perhaps to ask for comments or advice from the other players. Please begin your paragraphs with "IC:" for in-character remarks, and "OOC:" for out-of-character remarks, if there is a need to distinguish between the two sorts of comments. Anything a player says or does "in-character" is deemed to have happened instantly. Jokes, puns and smart remarks OOC are welcome, and will not affect player actions. Be warned, though, that jokes and smart remarks may give the GM new ideas for some awful occurrences in-game. Never give a GM...ideas. :-) The GM may also speak either in-game or out-of-game. He can whimsically show this by starting his paragraphs "God:" or "Narrator:" when actually dictating what really happens next to the characters, and in his own alias for GM-to-player remarks. Generally, several E-mail exchanges take place for the players to decide what they are going to do next, the GM may ask some questions to get clarifications, and then the GM advances the whole story by writing a description and putting a "scene number" in the subject-line, e.g. "Scene 32: Avalanche near the cliff!". There should be at least two or three major "scenes" per week. In any case, the GM will consider a message as a player's official move only if it begins with the name of the character: "Slip-R-EEE will pull the fire alarm..." There is a chance that anything less than a direct reference to the player represents "thinking out loud" by the player, and that should not be considered: "Maybe I ought to pull the fire alarm." "I'll pull it if all the others are safely out of the corridors..." Players should get into the spirit of the game and refer to their characters as living, interesting beings. Don't start messages simply with "I will..." 5) When making a reply to a message, be sparing in your use of re-quotes. Don't quote the whole message back with only a few lines of your own! Quote only what you need to show what you are answering to. If there's a change of subject, an old title would be inappropriate, and the player should try to change the subject-line instead of leaving it as-is. 6) Players and game-master could meet on a "live" Internet Relay Chat for one session of play. This could be of great use to speed up a certain part of the game, but only if all players are present and if the GM writes up a short summary of what happened as a message, after this session. 3) Organized Messages: Here are some hints for helping to organize a game and to maintain a good pace: PLAYERS: Players should check their list of new E-mail messages for the distinctive title-block such as "[ZELD:]" PLAYERS MUST READ ALL NEW MESSAGES for the PBEM right down to the end before making any replies. If they reply to some of the earlier messages first, new scenes may appear or new points may be raised by other players in later messages which make their first reply inappropriate. Stay up-to-date about the game! GAME MASTERS: The GM should keep his PBEM mail-outs "clean". He should not multi-mail a string of messages which are disorganized and incomprehensible or irrelevant to the game. Players with lengthy pre-game stuff like character generation should communicate with the GM in private and hammer out the details. The GM will NOT send these particular messages out to the whole playing group by multi-mail. One early E-mail should list the titles of textfiles stored by the GM which have to do with this game. The GM then sends these out one by one in E-mail (generally these should be in 50K chunks or less.) The GM should use care in designing the textfiles and making sure they cover essential topics. Here is a list illustrating the selection of files needed to set up a game: INTRO.TXT: Game Introduction CHARGEN.TXT: Character Generation COMBAT.TXT: Combat Rules (brief) GEOBACK.TXT: Geographical Background KYELDAR.GIF: Color map of the Land of Kyeldar [for 8-bit program and graphics files, the GM and player must agree to some method of encoding to be able to send it by Internet E-mail (which is limited to 7-bit transmission), such as MIME, UUencode, or base64.] HISTBACK.TXT: Historical Background SCENE1.TXT: Scene 1, opening scene of the game Depending on his audience, the GM may not always need to write a whole textfile for a given topic. The GM warns the players if he adds more files to the list, and includes the date the file was added or revised. Next, users will announce they want to join the game. The GM can correspond with each player and help players generate characters and answer questions; all the preliminary stuff. Then, the GM should prepare a "character sheet" for each player, written in a standard format (and which the GM stores as a textfile.) Players' character sheets are considered public information to all (unless for example you want to hide "alignment" or other hidden details). Character sheets are often edited, and the GM may post public updates for all characters after every logical pause in the adventure, or send them privately to each player at any time, to resolve any difference in the record-keeping. You may have a PBEM RPG that's well set-up technically, but it may still fail because the game "bogs down" if the proper pace isn't established. One key question to ask is: how did the play-by-mail companies solve this problem? After all, before the Internet they successfully ran games of all sorts with a postal turnaround time of as much as three weeks! They did so by providing colorful maps and materials, handling a lot of game-actions in one go, and giving players a lot to think (and worry) about in-between moves. If possible, the GM should mail out to each player some hardcopy sheets relevant to his campaign. He could send out color copies of a map of the game-world, charts summarizing the game rules for skills and combats (but only where permission to photocopy is printed on for such sheets), and other fact-sheets about his campaign. RPGs played by PBEM depend heavily on how interesting the GM's descriptions are. One important factor is that the GM must advance the game regularly at some agreed-upon frequency, say, twice a week. He may E-mail more often and even answer players' questions every day, but the actual frequency of the game "scenes" should be regular so that players know what to expect and will respond in that time-frame. If a player can't leave messages that often or misses a few times, then the GM must run that player's character as an NPC at those times. The GM must also keep things interesting by not waiting for EVERY little decision on the part of the players. In a face-to-face game, the instant two-way communication makes it easy to specify every little detail, but this is not the case in a PBEM game. The GM must go ahead and act based on what the players have previously specified are the "standing orders" for the characters (how that character would act during combat, choice of weapon, the level of trust toward strangers, etc.) The players may lose a little control over the details of their characters' actions, but this will free them from small routine decisions and allow them to concentrate on the really major game situations. The faster pace will in the end make things more fun for the players. Compare the following: WRONG WAY: GM: O.K., 20-foot-long corridor ends in a door. It is locked. FILKSONG DEMONBANE the PseudoPaladin (2 days later): I have a bad feeling about this. MICHAEL WILSON the Thief (5 days later): I can unlock the door. Let's see, I have Pick Pockets at -7%, Find Traps at... GM (4 days later): You manage to unlock the door, but you got an electric shock for 1 damage. Everyone, give me a marching order to confront anything on the other side. (2 weeks of debate follow) FILKSONG: Okay, we're arranged. What do we see? BETTER WAY: GM (all in the same message): You walk carefully along this dank stretch of corridor. Rats, and even smaller shadowy things, scuttle away from you on the dimly-lit floor. Ahead you see a standard-sized door with a rusted lock. "I'll handle this easily," boasts Michael Wilson the Thief. He fits a standard lock-pick to the lock but howls in pain as a spark flies across onto his fingers. He's burned <> Sobered, the other characters bandage Michael's hand and steel themselves to open the door. <> As they open the door, they are startled by the face of a terrible, slimy Mugrunk Beast which shrieks at them! What do you do next? The players at this point then give some "standing orders" like the positioning and preferred weaponry of their characters, and describe the characters' standard attack form, maneuvering, and special actions which they specify if something changes. This may take the form of "contingency planning" or "if...then" statements such as, "If the Mugrunk limps away, my character Filksong won't pursue, but will lob arrows into its back..." The players should try to think ahead; the more they think of various contingency plans, the easier it is for the GM to run combat and the GM won't have to slow the game down asking for details in the middle of combat. Combat should still be interrupted at least every few rounds to give the players a chance to change their strategy, or whenever new situations or participants crop up. By paying attention to the game's pacing, and avoiding details that bog down the game, you can see that a PBEM RPG can be made more interesting despite its "correspondence" nature. For PBEM games, a GM can ponder a situation for hours and does not need to make decisions on the spot like in face-to-face games. However, the PBEM-style game relies heavily on the GM's powers of description, organization, and the ability to keep the game moving in interesting directions. PBEM games are slow, but if the GM doesn't watch out, the game would get a whole lot slower! Once all of these problems can be avoided, and once everyone is used to the new "correspondence" format, the wonderful qualities of a RPG will take over. Enjoy your game! - ---- ADVANCED DUNGEONS & DRAGONS (AD&D) and PARANOIA are examples of role-playing games which consist of rule-books. AD&D is a trade- mark of TSR, Inc. PARANOIA is a trade-mark of West End Games. - ---Pierre Savoie (ab966@torfree.net) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 20:39:45 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Character sheet At 22.39 17/06/98 +0100, Jakup wrote: >Please, does anyone have a character sheet for OD&D? I do, but unfortunately for you, they're in Italian, so you won't be able to use em.. sorry :9 DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 14:57:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Age on the list [more digest stuff] On Wed, 17 Jun 1998, Jenni A. M. Merrifield wrote: >Well I lied about not doing any more research :-) I was just too curious. So I went all the way up to Digest 20 and culled out all the names that appeared. I realize that this isn't going to capture the 'lurkers' out there, but its interesting none-the-less. Brings back some memories (as this whole thread has!) Amazing we've been around so long! Just checking Shawn Staley's site, it's also pretty amazing how many high-quality projects we've put out through the years. Thanks, everybody! >09. Ann Dupuis Whatever happed to Ann, our original contributor from the canon-producer end of things? Haven't seen her here in ages..I wonder what she'd think of the Almanacs we've been putting out >17. Bruce Pierpont Who alone accounted for probably half the material here in the early months with his specialty priests. Did he ever conclude that series? >23. "Sea Wasp" >24. Bill "Urklore the Iron" Schwartz >38. Matt Chatterley Don't even remember these folks as having been on the list..the names all remind me of my first year or so on the 'net reading rec.games.frp.dnd. >Not bad for a start-up time period between approximately Sept 18 and Nov 28, 1995, eh? Not at all! The list's been running pretty smoothly with a few bumps here and there. Thanks for the research, Jenni! Helps us list-fogies remember the past some more. "I was determined and dedicated. I worked hard in the weight room all summer. And I ate a lot." - Oklahoma State football player Jevon Langford, on gaining 60 pounds in one summer *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 21:03:26 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Strength (was: Skills in D&D) At 16.35 17/06/98 EDT, Inconu wrote: >I don't agree with this. Why would they do the same damage yet one can perform >feats of strength to a stronger degree than the other? Because it's logical, at least to me. If this wasn't the case, then the Strength value would be universal, right? So it's basically like saying that a 18 STR giant (or dragon) is no more powerful than a 18 STR halfling! This is nonsense to me! >>Second thing: some races and creatures not only benefit from their great size (giants and dragons), but they're also able to surpass the "human" natural limit, and have scores that range beyond 18, especially regarding STR. For example, IMC Hill Giants have 18 STR, Rock G. 19, Fire G. 20 and Sea Giants 21 IIRC. >Do you allow for a spread in strength range though? Such as how a human may have 3-18. Do you have a range for giants in your campaign? Well, IMC giants have a minimum and a maximum STR: minimum is normally their maximum minus 6 (calculated basing me on PC3 : Sea Giant has minimum of 15 and maximum of 21) and the average is halfway. Obviously, the tougher the PCs, the higher the STR score... :) The STR scores i listed above are the maximums, the score you get by manufacturing a Girdle of Giant Strength. DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 12:08:05 -0700 From: "Harvey, MichaelX" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Character sheet At 22.39 17/06/98 +0100, Jakup wrote: >Please, does anyone have a character sheet for OD&D? I just put one up on my website: http://www.iccom.com/usrwww/bing/frp/dnd/dnd.html Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 16:30:31 -0400 From: "Dimitry Zagadsky" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics of Rad (was: Cure for Amputations?) - -----Original Message----- From: Håvard Rønne Faanes To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM Date: Thursday, June 18, 1998 1:49 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics of Rad (was: Cure for Amputations?) On Thu, 18 Jun 1998, Marc-Antoine Guidault wrote: >>Håvard said ... >>"Maybe Aaron Allston thought it fit nicely into his system or maybe he thought that these are the abilities zat I, would give my clerics if I had any. However, I do not wish to be associated wiz such ghastly creatures. Zey are a dizgrace to l'humanite. Bakc on Laterre zey used to burn honourable mages. Outrageous. I will have nothing to do with such people." -Rad. >Rad has perhaps followers (clerics) but under an another name (Just >think the god a jew, christian and moslem is the same as every scriptures said...). I dont think he would give them spells. Studying magic is what the ideology of Rad is all about. Giving away spells for free sounds like cheeting. In, Krynn, Mages are "clerics" of the moons. Maybe Rad's "clerics" are similar. Rad's clerics are called Shepards(not clerics) they're people you come to for advice and all that. I don't know what class they are(maybe a mage or fighter). They get visions from Rad from the Radiance receptacle in each temple, but they really are being controled by members of the Brotherhood of the Radiance. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 13:39:27 -0700 From: "Harvey, MichaelX" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Encyclopedia of Mystara? On Tuesday, June 16, 1998 2:17 PM, Galwylin wrote: II had started work on an index of D&D and Mystara products for something like this. I really haven't done much beyond just getting started. The number of material is quite overwhelming for one person. If others are interested, I could set up a format to index material and many people could gather the information from what books they own and then we could compile it into an Encyclopedia. This is the method TSR is using on the Forgotten Realms and Dragonlance encyclopedias that I'm helping with. I went ahead and put together a sample format and posted it to my web page: http://www.iccom.com/usrwww/bing/frp/dnd/mystara/cyc.html It is only a proposed skeleton for how to organize the material, and contains no content. In fact I am a newbie and don't own any Mystara material (other than the Expert Book, the Rules Cyclopedia and a few modules); everything I know about the world is from this list and various websites. (I used to play in the Known World before it was called Mystara, but took a break for about 10 years...) I did add in some dummy links to show how I envision the entries. Basically one web page per entry, just like a "real" encyclopedia. This makes it easy to add new entries, and encourages people to take on small projects like detailing a city or mountain range or something. With this kind of coverage and quick reference, Mystara would easily rival the Realms as the biggest and most detailed campaign world. As an example, the "Grand Duchy of Karameikos" page would give an overview of the country, and would include links to various events, people, cities, and natural features -- each of which would have its own page -- as well as a map of the duchy. This is only a proposal. If you don't like it please let me know and I can change the organization or layout. However, even if it is not in the "final" form, it at least provides a starting point from which we can begin collecting articles and other material. I am willing to serve as collector and organizer and HTML editor. As to the content, I'll have to rely on other list members. A huge amount of info is already out there on various web pages, and could be inserted into the C.M. with minor tweaks (don't worry, I'm not going to steal anyone's content without permission.) Eventually I'd like to see a group formed to take over the project and handle maintenence and distribution. There could perhaps be an annual update, much like the Almanac, and the entire Cyclopedia could be zipped up and distributed to people for use on their local system. In fact the Cyclopedia and the Almanac could work together: the Almanac as a day by day reference for campaigning (with interesting firsthand accounts and stuff), and the Cyclopedia as a reference work for GMs. Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 16:46:16 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Adakkian Sound settlements ================= Begin forwarded message ================= Descriptions of the Settlements of the Adakkian Sound Region: This article describes the various numbered settlements shown on the map of the Adakkian Sound region. Simply match the number of the settlement to the corresponding number in this document. Each settlement is described in terms of population, a brief history, and interesting events that are taking place there. There are also suggested activities for players passing through the area. 1. Kastelios (pop. 25,000): One of the more accessible cities on Davania, Kastelios is rapidly opening up to the traders of the Known World, such as those from Minrothad, Ierendi, and occasionally Thyatis. This port city of the former Milenian Empire has experienced a renaissance as both eager traders and tourists flock to its harbours, to what has been dubbed "The Gateway to the South", in search of adventure and profit. The city itself has undergone considerable expansion in recent years as explorers and settlers arrive in a steadily growing trickle, slowly overwhelming the meagre port facilities. Kastelios' strategic position between the Amoros and Vasilios river systems, and its commanding view of the Serpent Strait, has attracted the attention of Thyatis, ever eager to strengthen its foothold on the continent. Meanwhile, Minrothaddan traders have been attempting to buy out the local trading houses, in order to create a captive market for their goods. Between these two outside powers, and conflicts with other city-states on the Meghala Kimata Plains, there is no shortage of intrigue in Kastelios. Behind closed doors and in dark alleyways, people gather to foment their plans, whether they are pro-Thyatian annexationists, would-be despots, or those who would rebuild the Milenian Empire. Players may become involved in these plans unwittingly, and soon find themselves the targets of street gangs or secret societies. Players can find just about any kind of work here, and Kastelios is an excellent staging point to introduce them to the wonders of Davania. 2. Garganin (pop. 20,000): Formerly a colony of Hule, Garganin lost contact with its motherland over 150 years ago, and has not regained it since. Due to this longer period of isolation, the inhabitants of this city do not share many of the beliefs of their compatriots in Hule. They do not have expansionistic drives, and the worship of Bozdogan is not nearly as prevalent. In fact, immersion in a foreign environment has seen them adopt many of the Immortals worshipped in other city-states, such as Zirchev, Halav, Petra, Asterius, and others. As such, the inhabitants of Garganin no longer consider themselves Huleans, and wish to be left alone to deal with their own problems, such as frequent humanoid raids. Players may find employment here as bandit hunters (a big problem here), or guards. They may also wish to settle down here, as the city's ruler is always eager to obtain protection for his citizens, and is not above granting land to do it. Unlike its neighbour, Kastelios, Garganin does not have a reputation for welcoming newcomers, and in fact tries to have as little to do with them as possible. 3. Kalavronti (pop. 9,500): Kalavronti was a bustling mining and agricultural town during the height of the Milenian Empire, but now this ancient town has fallen on hard times. Increasing bandit raids have reduced the wealth and productivity of the town, and made its populace suspicious of outsiders; but has also instilled in the people a sense of self-sufficiency. There is a general feeling that conditions are bad, but they could be worse, and so there is no reason to rely on outside powers to solve problems. Players who offer their services as bandit hunters will be welcomed and appreciated, but any attempts to try to reincorporate Kalavronti into the outside world will be met with resistance. 4. Mivosia (pop. 21,000): Mivosia was, and still is, one of the most powerful city-states along the Meghalo Fithi river system. Its elite corps of soldiers have managed to subjugate the surrounding villages, and its leaders are determined to bring order to the region. If any inland Davanian cities have any hope of resurrecting the Milenian Empire, Mivosia would be among those most likely to be able to do it, if its leaders could present a united front. Order is maintained here only by the iron-fisted rule of the governing elite, which ties the peasants to their land, and keeps the citizenry in their place. Mivosia is not an inviting place to travellers. 5. Ilioloosti (pop. 18,700): Ilioloosti is the sister-city of Mivosia, which, although lacking the same smug pride of that city, still manages to dominate the villages in its area. Its government has managed to maintain some semblance of Milenian democracy, albeit a corrupted version. Perhaps the greatest attraction of this city is its famous (at least, by local standards) Academy of the Arts, where philosophers, artists, and writers hone their skills under the tutelage of acknowledged masters, and some surviving documents of the Milenian Empire are known to exist. It is also at the Academy where revolutionary ideas, such as the full restoration of Milenian democracy, are being discussed. For passers-by, Ilioloosti is an island of relative peace in a veritable sea of chaos and uncertainty, where it is possible to obtain employment as caravan guards, explorers, or spies (the rivalry with Mivosia is deeply entrenched). 6. Cyclonia (pop. 9,500): Once a great mining centre, Cyclonia has been in decline for the past thousand years. At the height of Milenian power, Cyclonia was a great city of 85,000, many of whom were great stonemasons, sculptors, smiths, and jewellers. After the collapse of the empire in BC 50, the generals in command of the city were able to hold it against barbarian attacks from the Meghales Amosses Desert. Since it was a largely isolated settlement to begin with, full knowledge of the empire's collapse did not reach it until BC 38. Alarmed at the development, Cyclonia's leaders organized several expeditions to gain control of as much land as possible over the next 300 years, knowing full well that the city could not survive on its own for long due to a lack of arable land in the region. During this time barbarian and humanoid incursions became more frequent, and the city's strength began to ebb under the pressure as losses could not be easily replaced. One group of colonists from Cyclonia managed to find greener pastures, and founded the city of Aelios (#17 on the map). Disheartened over the apparent hopelessness of the situation, people left Cyclonia over the years, taking their chances with the unknown. People coming to Cyclonia will at first think the place is in ruins, since most buildings are dilapidated from neglect. At the centre of the ruins lies a town, surrounded by high walls and guarded vigilantly. Passers-by will likely attract the attention of the locals, as potential saviours to lead them to a safer place, or to help them reclaim their city. 7. Hrissopoli (pop. 7,000): Hrissopoli was, in its heyday, the sister-city to Cyclonia. It boasted a population of 67,000, though it experienced a much more rapid decline. With the collapse of central authority in BC 50, Hrissopoli's army found itself without reliable communications or instructions, and soon feel victim to the rampaging humanoid hordes swarming out of the Adakkian Mounts. Within three weeks, over three-quarters of the city had been looted and burned, the rest spared destruction when the horde began to squabble amongst itself, and was finally driven out by the remaining inhabitants. Since then, Hrissopoli has recovered somewhat through sporadic trading with Ilioloosti and Telos Taksidhi, though repeated barbarian and humanoid raids have prevented the town from regaining its former glory. Newcomers to the scene will be looked upon with caution, and if proven non-threatening, will be looked upon as possible saviours against the raids. Adventurers would have their work cut out for them. 8. Telos Taksidhi (pop. 9,000): Largely a farming community, Telos Taksidhi was never a very important town in the Milenian Empire. The old overland trade routes bypassed it completely, and few people ever came or left. It was so far off the proverbial beaten path that even the collapse of the Milenian Empire did not affect local events very Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 16:47:32 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #435 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 076f571101d91a25dc5c4e0d6d1cc11e much. Due to its isolation, this town has always been relatively self-contained, and continued to be such after BC 50. The first extensive contact with outsiders since the collapse was with a Minrothaddan explorer in AC 979, who returned home and obtained permission from the merchant houses to open a trade route to the region in order to obtain rare spices, fruits, and vegetables. Thus was interest in the town, and the Green Coast in general, born. Only now are residents learning the true extent of what happened over the past thousand years, and now the Telosians are beginning to question why they have been so lucky in comparison. The only interesting feature in this town is the Minrothad consulate/trading post, the town's only connection to the Known World, a fact of which the Minrothaddans are very aware, as they slowly entrench themselves into the regional economy. 9. Polakatsikes (pop. 8,600): This marginal farming town was barely established when the Milenian Empire collapsed. At the time, it was among the southernmost of Milenian settlements, and near the source of the great Meghalo Fithi river. Aside from these distinctive features, this town is quite unremarkable, save for its almost total isolation. This isolation was a considerable problem over the last millenium, as incursions from the desert nomads to the south. In general, though, the town has managed to hold off all but the worst of the raids, and achieve some measure of prosperity. The people here vaguely remember the Milenian Empire, and do not miss it, for the one thing that remains clear in their memories as a people is the fact that they were ignored even then. People who arrive at this town will find a large group of rugged individualists, ruled by a town council, who bow to no one - but will happily accept any aid against the raids that still occur now and then. 10. Raven Scarp (pop. 20,000): Originally the main meeting place of the Raven Clan Hinterlanders, this area was conquered around AC 988, along with stretches of the Davanian coastline near here. Today, it is a bustling port city that receives goods from Minrothad, Yavdlom, Ierendi, Kastelios, Ochalea, the Pearl Islands, and occasionally Cestia. For many people, this is the first taste of Davania, where many come to start a new life - though Kastelios is now rapidly rising as another gateway. Unlike Kastelios, new arrivals here must pass through a rigamarole of Thyatian bureaucracy - from entry visas to personal documentation checks to verification of land allocation for those seeking a new start here. This is another useful place for characters to begin their exploration of Davania - one that lacks much of Kastelios' "anything goes" atmosphere, but has a slightly thicker veneer of "Known World sensibilities and hospitality". It is no less dangerous or full of intrigue, though. 11. Manacapuru (pop. 7,600): The ancient stone city, capital of the Manacapuru tribespeople, was once known as Ixachitl, a prosperous, but little-known Oltec city-state descended from the ancient nation of Orimul, which vanished along with many other Davanian nations in the battles against the Carnifex hordes of Y'hog. Ixachitl flourished until roughly BC 200, when a rival faction within the city's leadership arose that questioned the wisdom of maintaining peace with the Milenian Empire. This faction, encouraged by Atzanteotl, gained control of the city through a bloody coup and proceeded to make war upon the neighbouring Milenians. The war ended with a crushing defeat for Ixachitl, which was then plunged into anarchy, in which thousands either died or fled into the jungles, and the worshippers of Atzanteotl were left in control of a pile of rubble. Over the following centuries, almost everything of the original culture was forgotten, and now the descendants of those followers of Atzanteotl are little more than savages, who revere their treacherous Immortal still, and have perfected the art of poisoning weapons. The city has been rebuilt anew, and is now reminiscent of those settlements occupied by the Children of the Viper in the Atruaghin Clans, evidence to some of divine instruction... 12. Glauqnor (pop. 10,500): Glauqnor is the second-largest settlement in Emerond, and as such it has more than its share of activity. Here, a traveller can find numerous attraction that are available in other larger settlements, overlaid with the mysterious Emerondian culture. Apart from this, however, Glauqnor has little to offer the adventure-seeker. This place is quiet, just how the inhabitants like it. 13. Izmira (pop. 12,000): Izmira is the capital city of the Kingdom of Emerond, and much of the adventure opportunities available in other capitals can also be found here. As the official residence of the royal family, Izmira offers many plots - by natives and foreigners alike, for would-be heroes to foil. Besides the inherent beauty of this city (like all Emerondian settlements, Izmira seems to have been "grown" out of living plant matter, rather than built), travellers can uncover many mysteries about the Emerondians. It is said that documents containing information on the true origins of the Emerondians can be found somewhere beneath the city, as well as detailled accounts of events in northern Davania over the past thousand years, possibly the only ones in existence. 14. Schweidnitz (pop. 2,500): Founded in AC 977 as a military outpost of the Heldannic knights, Schweidnitz has since grown into a moderately prosperous rest stop for ships travelling the northern coast of Davania to the Adakkian Sound or to the Strait of Izonda. Ships plying the opening trade routes between the Known World and the Savage Baronies, and who do not which to risk overland travel across the Neck on the Serpent Peninsula, often stop here to restock essential supplies and for some shore leave for the crew. Yavdlom offers few ports of sufficient size on its western coast, and a direct journey from Kastelios to Slagovich, while shorter, is more expensive in terms of docking fees, and the Kastelians lack the resources to provide armed escorts on demand (for a small fee). These factors have made Schweidnitz quite prosperous considering its location. The climate here is mild, considering its latitude, and the waters of Schweidnitzere Bucht (Schweidnitzer Bay) are warm and filled with all forms of fish. The soil is also quite rich; this colony has no problems feeding itself. The local activities here are agriculture, shipbuilding, and mining - primarily for iron and silver. The leadership of the Heldann Freeholds is planning to expand this settlement, in order to tighten the Heldanner claim to the area. Apart from colonists, many would-be explorers come here to unlock the mysteries of the Izondian Desert, as well as learn about the wonders of the nearby Adakkian Sound. Players who venture here can find numerous forms of employment here, as in any frontier town. 15. Porto Santuário (pop. 8,700): Founded in AC 976 as a way-station for Texeiran merchantmen plying their trade further south, Porto Santuário has since grown into a prosperous garrison town. Protected on its three landward sides by high walls, and by a sea wall along the Sound, its residents feel quite safe. Many inhabitants make a living mining the nearby hills for copper, platinum, and rubies, which are in abundance here. Many other squander their earnings at the numerous pubs and gambling houses - the other pillars of the local economy - while some save up their earnings and build palatial estates outside the confines of the town. Many travellers find themselves here on their way to the Izondian Desert, or further south towards the source of the Sound. Along with Beira (number 16 on the map), this town forms half of the so-called "Texeiran gate" (or the Texeiran Noose, depending on your sympathies). Both of the towns are situated on either side of the entrance to the Adakkian Sound such that they can control access to it. The Texeiran grip on the area will be tightened further when the settlement of Torres Novas is established sometime around AC 1007. It will be located 2 hexes due north of Porto Santuário, and will allow the "Gate" to be closed firmly. So far, the Gate has enlarged Texeiran coffers considerably, as any ship wishing to enter the Sound in order to access the other ports and colonies along its shores must pay a tariff valued at 5% of the net worth of the goods carried on board, or face the wrath of the Texeiran Southern Fleet based in both Beira and Porto Santuário. What this amounts to is a tax on visiting one's colonial possessions deeper within the Sound, and for doing business in the region. Needless to say, the atmosphere is very tense, and it would not take much for hostilities to erupt. As it stands now, no one has yet discovered a safe overland route into the Sound, and no one yet can match Texerian naval prowess in the region. Travellers can find employment here as explorers, assisting homesteaders in gaining control of their land, and as sell-swords. They might also be lured by rumours of great wealth for the taking hidden in ruins deep within the jungle... 16. Beira (pop. 7,400): Founded as a trading post in AC 968 for obtaining rare wood and spices from nearby natives, Beira has only recently grown into the fortress town it is today. Along with Porto Santuário (location 15 on the map), it forms the "Texeiran Gate", a strategic arrangement of colonies that commands access to the Sound (please see the description under location 15 for more information). This is where the similarity ends with its sister town. Where Porto Santuário is relatively frontier-like, and often violent, Beira is far more settled and peaceful. The local Oltec tribespeople trade peacefully with the Texeirans, trading their gold and pelts for Texeiran weapons and amenities such as cast-iron pots. Enterprising players can find employment here as caravan guards, mercenaries, or as explorers. 17. Aelios (pop. 9,000): Aelios is a fishing and farming town established by refugees from Cyclonia (location 6 on the map) in AC 307, during the migrations that followed the collapse of the Milenian Empire. Few people come to this town, save for the occasional Vilaverdan or Texeiran explorer heading inland to trade with the tribespeople of the Meghales Amosses Desert. Travellers will find an independent people here, who have largely abandoned Milenian ways save for their language and architectural styles. 18. Port Elsterbury (pop. 6,000): Founded by Bellayne in AC 927, Port Elsterbury was originally supposed to be a staging area for a massive colonization effort to head off Renardois efforts at colonizing the Sound. The land rush failed to materialize, and efforts to drain the swamplands at the mouth of the Charing river, upon which the town was built, failed. Only a trickle of people ever came to this place, and these were often the outcasts of Bellayne society - derelicts, fugitives from justice, and the like. Travellers coming here will see what are obviously once-opulent palaces, manors, and public buildings being used as flophouses, taverns, and gambling halls. Truly an urban planning disaster. In fact, it is only by virtue of the 500-man garrison here that the town remains a colony of Bellayne - otherwise it would have been abandoned to its own fate (there is a strong pro-imperialist faction in the Bellayne government that has managed to keep the troops here). Despite the military presence, Port Elsterbury is a free city for all intents and purposes, and anything can be traded here for a price, including slaves. Lawfully-aligned adventurers would not wish to stay here long - the aura of social decay and malevolence is strong here - and any newcomer to this town who is not careful will be relieved of their valuables. Enterprising adventurers could offer to clean up the place for Bellayne for a reward (or perhaps governance of the town), but they would have their work cut out for them. 19. Jelgavpils (pop. 4,000): Founded around AC 500 by Littonian explorers who had been lost at sea for weeks, and has subsequently mixed with some of the natives, Jelgavpils is a moderately prosperous city-state, though it is little more than a town. Although there has been no contact with Littonia for centuries, the people here have kept much of their culture. Built on the Jelgava river, Jelgavpils commands a strategic location on prime agricultural land. The inhabitants grow their own vines for winemaking, raise their own livestock, and see to their own affairs. Generally, they are content with their existence, and wish to be left alone - shunning contact with most of the other settlements along the Sound. Adventurers finding this town will be treated with hospitality, and will be assisted in any way possible, but no great efforts will be made to encourage prolonged contact with outsiders. 20. Thalla (pop. 8,500): Thalla was founded around AC 250 by refugees from the growing chaos in the ancient nation of Varellya. Since then, this town has been destroyed and rebuilt four times as wars, raids, and natural catastrophes have taken their toll on the people here. Nestled at the source of the Jelgava river (which the Thallans call the Vrall river), Thalla sustains itself with its farms, fishing, and hunting in the jungle. Life here is hard, not only because of periodic kara-kara raids, but also because of isolation. There is infrequent contact with Jelgavpils by way of the river, for the route is long and dangerous, and neither town has much in the way of trading goods. Over the centuries, much of the Varellyan culture has been lost, with the people retaining only fragments of their language and some basic customs. In every other way they have developed a new identity, such that they are Varellyan in name only. People venturing to this town will find the inhabitants to be a determined lot, fighting for everything they have, but willing to extend a welcome to strangers who prove themselves to be non-threatening. Eliminating some of the threats in the region would also earn the trust of these people. 21. Cap Saint-Renard (pop. 6,800): Cap Saint-Renard was founded in AC 879 as a way-station for explorers and traders headed further inland. Large-scale settlement did not begin until AC 894, when substantial deposits of diamonds were discovered in some nearby hills. Since then, thousands have come here to seek their fortune. Today, Cap Saint-Renard is a prosperous town, full of shops and inns serving numerous travellers. This colony has the richest deposits of diamonds in the whole region, and its soils provide its plantations and farms with bountiful harvests. There is plenty of work to be had here for adventurers as guards, miners, and as explorers to stake claims and to expand Renardie's colonial holdings. 22. Shaedrin (pop. 3,800): Founded by halflings knocked off course during the great migration towards Brun in BC 1300, this settlement has remained largely undisturbed for centuries. Although there is considerable contact with outsiders, and the ruling sheriff encourages open exchange of goods, society here remains largely closed to outsiders. There are no foreigners living within Shaedrin's bounds, and the inhabitants like it this way. These attitudes are actually a holdover from the period when the halflings were driven from their homes by the Varellyans so long ago, though there are no records of the original events. This place provides good opportunities to observe halfling culture as it was before extensive contact with outsiders, where Lalor is spoken almost exclusively, and traditions now forgotten in the Five Shires are still practised. Overall, the halflings here are independent, but willing to receive outsiders for a time - so long as they do not try to impose their ways or overstay their welcome. 23. Porto Cabinda (pop. 9,000): This Vilaverdan colony was founded in AC 950, and was the southern half of what was for a time known as the "Vilaverdan Fortress" - two ports controlling access to the interior of Davania and the Brasol Mountains. In most respects it functions the same way as the Texeiran Gate, but most of the riches gained from it have since been lost to the operation maintained by their colonial rivals, the Texeirans. Needless to say, tensions have increased between the two nations, and full-scale war between the two is not unlikely in the coming years. Despite the tensions, Porto Cabinda remains prosperous, exporting the exotic fruits and vegetables, as well as sugar cane, grown on its plantations. Generally a quiet place, farther removed from the frontier existence experienced by so many other settlements of this region. 24. São Paulo (pop. 7,400): Founded in AC 955, this Vilaverdan town forms the northern half of the so-called "Vilaverdan Fortress", which for several years controlled access to the interior of the continent. In many ways it is much like its counterpart, Porto Cabinda, with its pleasant farms and its plantations, supplying rich crops of tropical fruits and vegetables, as well as supplies of rubies from nearby mines. Generally a pleasant town, like its southern counterpart. 25. Klath-T'zarth (pop. 8,800): This unusual town was founded around AC 300 by an expedition of Adakkian Carnifex and their Troglodyte servants, at the confluence of what they called the Shakkor and Y'hgg rivers, and upon the ruins of the Varellyan city of Priallus. They named it Abb-H'zoth. By AC 400, the town was rapidly growing, and the Carnifex rulers began making plans to expand their holdings and drive out those of other races. They did not get far, however, before a horde of lizard men, who had been wandering for centuries after the destruction of their homeland to the southwest, decided to move in and take control. Meeting with some rebellious Troglodytes, they encouraged thoughts of revolt, promising them freedom if they helped them conquer the town. Within weeks, the Troglodyte servants rose up against their masters, and slaughtered them, suffering great losses in the process. Unfortunately, the lizard men had no intention of giving the Troglodytes their freedom, and moved in and exterminated the weakened victors. Renaming the town Klath-T'zarth, the lizard men remade it to their liking, destroying the unpleasant obsidian buildings and replacing them with ones of more mundane stone. Since then, the population has grown slowly, eking out an existence from the surrounding lands and the nearby Bogs of Greth through fishing and primitive farming. Some money is also made by providing guides to lead travellers to half-sunken ruins (many of them Varellyan) scattered throughout the marshlands, and by hiring out warriors as mercenaries (as Vilaverde is doing in preparation for a war with Texeiras). Apart from these activities, there is little contact with the outside world - few would want to come here, and the inhabitants do not want the interference of outsiders. Thus this town remains a mystery, which some enterprising merchants see as virgin territory for their goods. Adventurers would have little to do here, save for exploring the nearby ruins, and possibly learning about the now-forgotten deed against the Carnifex and their servants. Geoff PS - As a final note - updates on Kastelios, Garganin, and Polakatsikes are available in the AC 1015 Almanac. - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #435 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, June 19 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 436 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: RE: [MYSTARA] - Encyclopedia of Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - Age on the list Re: [MYSTARA] - Weight measure in the almanac. [MYSTARA] - Age on the list Re: [MYSTARA] - Age on the list [more digest stuff] RE: [MYSTARA] - Encyclopedia of Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - Encyclopedia of Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - Encyclopedia of Mystara? [MYSTARA] - Alphatia Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D RE: [MYSTARA] - Encyclopedia of Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Encyclopedia of Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - Age on the list Re: [MYSTARA] - Encyclopedia of Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - Age on the list [MYSTARA] - How to Kill a DM... Re: [MYSTARA] - Age on the list ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 17:01:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Encyclopedia of Mystara? At 01:39 PM 6/18/98 -0700, you wrote: >I did add in some dummy links to show how I envision the entries. Basically >one web page per entry, just like a "real" encyclopedia. This makes it easy >to add new entries, and encourages people to take on small projects like >detailing a city or mountain range or something. With this kind of coverage >and quick reference, Mystara would easily rival the Realms as the biggest >and most detailed campaign world. > >As an example, the "Grand Duchy of Karameikos" page would give an overview >of the country, and would include links to various events, people, cities, >and natural features -- each of which would have its own page -- as well as >a map of the duchy. > >This is only a proposal. If you don't like it please let me know and I can >change the organization or layout. However, even if it is not in the >"final" form, it at least provides a starting point from which we can begin >collecting articles and other material. > This sounds like a great plan; the only thing is that we have to be very careful not to step on any copyright toes. So we could only detail things like small towns that aren't covered in the Gazetteers, or little tidbits of info like current fashions and popular foods. But of course this isn't news to anyone on this list, right? >I am willing to serve as collector and organizer and HTML editor. > Aha! A willing victim! Prepare thyself for the sacrifice... Seriously, it's a huge pile of work. But if you can pull it off, more power to you. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 20:33:28 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Age on the list At 16.07 17/06/98 -0700, Jenni A. M. Merrifield wrote: > > In fact, the digests at io.com go almost all the way back to the >inception of the MML, except that, for some reason, v01.n001 has been >overwritten with the Sunday, February 9 1997 digest, and v01.n002 has been >overwritten with the Tuesday, February 11 1997 digest. Note -- v02.n001 >and v02.n002 do not exist, so I suspect that when v02 started something got >mixed up with the digest numbering... Jenni, though I wasn't already subscribed at the time, I have digests 1 (Thursday, 28 September 1995) and 2. I can send both to you if you would like to do more research. Let me know. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 21:15:04 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Weight measure in the almanac. At 04.00 18/06/98 -0400, Shin Chyang Yu wrote: >I noted in couple of places in the 1015 almanac, that kilogram >is used as the weight unit. I like SI units, but to me it seems >to be a bit out of place in a fantasy setting, as it is a bit >too "modern". Does anyone else feels the same way? > Actually we didn't thought about it being "modern" or "ancient" when using SI units. At first Micheal Roy (the editor) suggested to switch to SI units, but then Andrew (the only American in the team) complained about it and moreover the PWA used ft., mi., and lb. and so we decided to keep both. Unfortunately not everyone remembered about it and so sometimes there's only one kind of unit. Anyway a revised edition of the Almanac will be available for download soon. About SI being a bit too "modern", maybe it's true, but the U.S. system doesn't feel more "ancient" either, just a bit more difficult for us Europeans :-) In RW Middle-Age each dominion, and often each city, had his own system of units, so in Mystara you would have the Darokinian ft., the Karameikan ft. (probably not different from the Thyatian one), and a different ft. for each Glantrian Principality. Not to mention countries ruled by non-humans where units should be really different from human nations... e.g. the Hin hairy ft. :-) It would be very nice, but also confusing for players and DM alike. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 21:18:43 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: [MYSTARA] - Age on the list This is the list of MML dated Tue, 18 Jun 1996 >van891@uidaho.edu >schmidtb@informatik.tu-muenchen.de >knight@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au >berg@eskimo.com >vm@hp1.imm.rwth-aachen.de >azure@cs.oberlin.edu >davidk@oslonett.no >fraserm@achilles.net >lavonius@cc.helsinki.fi >megst19+@pitt.edu >sm@ncrsecp.copenhagen.NCR.COM >u9320158@muss.CIS.McMaster.CA >musseauh@esiee.fr >jgentry@dbintellect.com >zagyg@io.com >auaxt@asuvm.inre.asu.edu >AW3503@cnsvax.albany.edu >oujm@net-unix.newcastle.edu.au >jason@campbellsoft.com >smuchow@origin.ea.com >goehrigd@gort.canisius.edu >Urklore@tiac.net >jkeene@uoguelph.ca >stein1@spring.com >starhawk@menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu >deg121@psu.edu >mslewis@iastate.edu >davidj@stallion.jsums.edu >p.froehlich@amc.cube.net >jsmill@imap1.asu.edu >a122286@proffa.cc.tut.fi >neurolab@pavlov.psyc.queensu.ca >martinh@deakin.edu.au >MCCARTYV%STUDENT.Avila@mail.avila.edu >kaelin@natural.com >dadam@wimsey.com >shelby7@ix.netcom.com >jam@wimsey.com >mdoll@honeydew.ece.uc.edu >dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca >nemesis@ssnet.com >brizio@lunet.it >fschober@uceng.uc.edu >Brandy106@aol.com >L.J.G.Bun@twi.tudelft.nl >senoj@richmond.infi.net >tbandy@cyberportal.net >3gss@qlink.queensu.ca >dick@argo.net >JOEGERBER@delphi.com >billg@microsoft.com >malcolmc@ramlink.net >100542.2252@compuserve.com >mystara-mail@fishys.jammys.net >mystara@morespeed.rsn.hk-r.se >darwin@gp.magick.net >scy2g@virginia.edu >acrmarti@snfma1.if.usp.br >tgm@math.uni-bonn.de >doenecke@wcoc4.chemie.uni-wuppertal.de >plegrand@pratique.fr >st952a19@echidna.cowan.edu.au >GNKGP@academic.stu.StThomasU.ca >esp109@email.psu.edu >toron@tripnet.se >cgbalor@imada.ou.dk >srblake@deakin.edu.au >l36812@alfa.ist.utl.pt >FORTIN02@GEL.ULAVAL.CA >wildcat@prysm.net >NVXY23A@prodigy.com >davidk@Synopsys.COM >sleepy@peg.apc.org >gore@cris.com >Magnus.Ottosson@mailbox.swipnet.se >jmorris@bgnet.bgsu.edu >100636.3013@compuserve.com >gary_lubben@info-server.w-delaware.k12.ia.us >paoloa@ing.unico.it >Andrew_McKinstry@westtown.edu >ARMIN_KRAVANJA_at_DEPZ-O2@bmg.boehringer.com >bohnet@ra1.randomc.com >tahk@acsu.buffalo.edu >douek@research.haifa.ac.il >jduncan2@chat.carleton.ca >flkoh@singnet.com.sg >a.knapp@magnet.at >rhopso19@idt.liberty.com >henrik.nordhus@hfstud.uio.no >lazuli@u.washington.edu >bbs@mhv.net >hihama@uta.fi >lavista@prima.ruhr.de >mlevy@orion.oac.uci.edu >Aaron_E._Gibson@sfbayguardian.com >rking4@ix.netcom.com >seah@sfu.ca >miracle.software@spherenet.com >kat.path@spherenet.com >cawimm0@service1.uky.edu >defender@sci.fi >thoreson@mailbag.com >James_Curwood@westtown.edu >Kaviyd@aol.com >A.Jazayeri@cs.ucl.ac.uk >rverderber@mail.pcsonline.com >dbrohman@chat.carleton.ca >blankley.1@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu >gaultier@XIII.univ-angers.fr >MRRU13A@prodigy.com >Secret.Agent.Mearls@Dartmouth.EDU >ap004c@uhura.cc.rochester.edu >meltdown@isp.nwu.edu >ggander@chat.carleton.ca >910743@CENCO.ULIMA.EDU.PE >george@msn.fullfeed.com >X94JORDAN2@wmich.edu >miguelro@alfa.adinet.com.uy And this is the list of digest members dated Fri, 21 Jun 1996 >accfif@umich.edu >owner-mystara-l@io.com >lcdavis@mailbox.syr.edu >nth@imada.ou.dk >mildwind@aol.com >kalroth@holly.colostate.edu >a122286@proffa.cc.tut.fi >jsmill@imap1.asu.edu >willie@HIT.handshake.de >dadam@wimsey.com >billhart@netzone.com >havardfa@james.avh.unit.no >billg@microsoft.com >idiot@sans.vuw.ac.nz >gmccormi@cs.strath.ac.uk >TSRInc@aol.com >whtknt@usa.pipeline.com >ejkimmet@mail.coos.or.us >michaeld@dove.mtx.net.au >ktepi@io.com >s9406058@student.anu.edu.au >talmeta@cybercomm.net >zkozar@public.srce.hr >PoorWizard@aol.com >raillon@dia9.zfe.siemens.de >bac@eaicorp.com >Wildmule@aol.com >910743@CENCO.ULIMA.EDU.PE *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 23:28:11 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Age on the list [more digest stuff] At 14.57 18/06/98 -0400, Mischa E Gelman wrote: > >> 09. Ann Dupuis > >Whatever happed to Ann, our original contributor from the canon-producer >end of things? Haven't seen her here in ages..I wonder what she'd think >of the Almanacs we've been putting out I've contacted her at her new address and I'll send her the Almanac as soon as I finish putting together the Word version. Anyway she looked interested. >> 23. "Sea Wasp" >> 24. Bill "Urklore the Iron" Schwartz >> 38. Matt Chatterley > >Don't even remember these folks as having been on the list..the names all >remind me of my first year or so on the 'net reading rec.games.frp.dnd. #24 was the one with the long sig, about 20-30 lines. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 14:47:54 -0700 From: "Harvey, MichaelX" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Encyclopedia of Mystara? On Thursday, June 18, 1998 2:02 PM, Glen Sprigg [SMTP:borealis@cois.on.ca] wrote: > This sounds like a great plan; the only thing is that we have to be > very careful not to step on any copyright toes. So we could only > detail things like small towns that aren't covered in the Gazetteers, > or little tidbits of info like current fashions and popular foods. Yes, we cannot paraphrase the Gazetteers, since that qualifies as a derivative work. (Actually everything on this list qualifies as a derivative work and thus violates TSR's copyright, but that's another matter...) What I suggest is that people write their own entries for places and things, rather than just copying information out of the gazetteers. It is true that this will deviate from TSR-Mystara to a certain extent, but it will at least provide a complete picture of the world. For example, someone might write up a description of the City of Specularum, complete with a city map, major NPCs, and other stuff. This of course is already detailed in a TSR publication somewhere, but those who own that publication can simply use the official version, while newbies without access to the gazetteer can use the Net version. The other alternative is just to include a skeletal entry for such places. ("Specularum is the Capital of Karameikos. It is a big city and is ruled by Duke Steffan".) Such skeletal entries could also include any net-created information, but would simply exclude any info that is already supplied by TSR. This would give "newbie" GMs room to develop and customize the world for their campaigns, without ruining the market for new or used Mystara products. There is one thing we could do to protect ourselves: put a "Copyright TSR" message on the whole project, and *give* it to TSR. This completely avoids copyright infringement, as we'd all just become volunteer writers for Mystara. Of course then TSR could yank the whole thing and publish it without paying us, but some might like that idea anyway... This at least would ensure that our efforts become "canon" and allow the possibility of future publication. Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 18:24:50 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Encyclopedia of Mystara? Harvey, MichaelX wrote: > > There is one thing we could do to protect ourselves: put a "Copyright TSR" > message on the whole project, and *give* it to TSR. This completely avoids > copyright infringement, as we'd all just become volunteer writers for > Mystara. Of course then TSR could yank the whole thing and publish it > without paying us, but some might like that idea anyway... This at least > would ensure that our efforts become "canon" and allow the possibility of > future publication. I think this is the best idea. If we limit the encyclopedia to TSR published works (all discrepasies should be discussed on the list to decide which is correct but provide all to TSR) and ask them to post it on the Mystara section of the site, we'll not only have a great source ourselves but provide TSR a source for future products. It would be good to provide TSR the source entries so they can look up any questionable things themselves. I doubt payment could be expected but I'd just be glad to have the encyclopedia myself and that TSR has a clear view of their setting. I haven't had a chance to look at your format but I think we should have the initial entries like this: Product Number Title Keyword Entry Memo (person, place or thing) (page # & note) Just remember this is a encyclopedia and not a gazetteer. Eventually the encyclopedia would have the entries and a paragraph of defining it be nation, city, NPC, spell or magic item. - -- This has been a Galwylin® Production The Tome of Galwylin (http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/) galwylin@airnet.net | ICQ #6755972 | AIM: Galwylin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 18:31:50 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Encyclopedia of Mystara? Harvey, MichaelX wrote: > > I went ahead and put together a sample format and posted it to my web page: > > http://www.iccom.com/usrwww/bing/frp/dnd/mystara/cyc.html The page looks great, IMO. We'll want to also created a document for TSR (RTF probably) in case they don't want to link out side their site. Hopefully, they would post the document and have a link to your site though. - -- This has been a Galwylin® Production The Tome of Galwylin (http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/) galwylin@airnet.net | ICQ #6755972 | AIM: Galwylin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 19:41:32 -0400 From: "Dimitry Zagadsky" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia What ever happened to the continent of Alphatia in the Wrath of the Immortals? I read somewhere that it is a floating continent. Is that true? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 19:43:01 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D On Thu, 18 Jun 1998, paul dooley wrote: > note I once had a GM who only allowed you to use a pulley if you had > Engineering skill! Realistic aint it). Trick the guards into opening it > for you , disintegrate it the list goes on and on doesn`t it <;-P True enough. Why waste your strength? Not every party has a Fezzik you know :) (actually, a character like that should get a nice +1 or +2 strength, for an appreciable loss of intelligence (not wisdom. Fezzik was slow, not stupid)) But wait a sec. That would make his human score 19 or 20.. Equal to about a 17-18 strength Ogre. AGH! I'm confuzzling myself! Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 19:44:54 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D On Thu, 18 Jun 1998, paul dooley wrote: > Actually I had a PC storm giant at gencon witha str 36 OD&D obviously > and I was the wicca if youall can remember that far back <;-P Agh! No need to be a magic user, the sheer size would make most enemies pee themselves and run away. I know if seeing a nice 22' tall giant, I'd make like an ant, and run. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 16:55:37 -0700 From: "Harvey, MichaelX" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Encyclopedia of Mystara? On Thursday, June 18, 1998 4:32 PM, Galwylin [SMTP:galwylin@airnet.net] wrote: > > http://www.iccom.com/usrwww/bing/frp/dnd/mystara/cyc.html > > The page looks great, IMO. We'll want to also created a document for > TSR (RTF probably) in case they don't want to link out side their > site. Hopefully, they would post the document and have a link to > your site though. What, you mean put the whole encyclopedia into a single RTF file? I was thinking of just giving them the whole HTML tree in zipped form, and they can host it on their site. It shouldn't be too hard to convert to RTF though, if that's what they want. Somebody probably ought to contact TSR...? Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 19:11:24 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia Dimitry Zagadsky wrote: > > What ever happened to the continent of Alphatia in the Wrath of the > Immortals? > I read somewhere that it is a floating continent. Is that true? Alphatia was sunk accidently (though I don't believe that) by Rad in Wrath of the Immortals. The Immortals saved it and placed it in the Hollow World as a floating continent. So, yes. Its true. - -- This has been a Galwylin® Production The Tome of Galwylin (http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/) galwylin@airnet.net | ICQ #6755972 | AIM: Galwylin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 17:35:08 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D After looking over the Immortals strength chart, I'd have to agree with Max on the fact that you can't take strength for races straight from AD&D to OD&D. What I'd suggest in the Storm Giant example is this. Max: you say that you feel that the "average" Storm giant should have about a 36 strength on the immortals chart ? Take the 3d6 roll and add 26. This would give the Storm Giant a range of 29-44 (Average: 36.5) on the Immortals chart. Generally, decide on the "average" for that race subtract 10.5 and make that the bonus for the race. Just my thoughts. Later. Jesse. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 18:11:19 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D >But what if the PC wanted to lift it with his hands. would you allow a roll? >-Inconu I'd say it takes a total strength of "X" if the PC had that strength, or multiples acting together, then they lift it. Give a crowbar and such levers a strength bonus to the chances. Another way is to determine the weight to strength ratio and use that. Later. Jesse. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 22:05:47 EDT From: CRlPTONITE@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Encyclopedia of Mystara? Has anyone taken charge of this project? I would like to volunteer to write the Blackmoor section, but I have no idea who will be organizing the encyclopedia. - --- -- --Criptonite *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 06:29:58 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Age on the list In a message dated 6/18/98 5:21:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, brizio@lunet.it writes: > This is the list of MML dated Tue, 18 Jun 1996 >MRRU13A@prodigy.com Damn, my old prodigy address. I had no idea i've been on this long. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 07:52:47 -0400 From: "Dimitry Zagadsky" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Encyclopedia of Mystara? - -----Original Message----- From: CRlPTONITE@aol.com To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM Date: Thursday, June 18, 1998 10:18 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Encyclopedia of Mystara? >Has anyone taken charge of this project? I would like to volunteer to write >the Blackmoor section, but I have no idea who will be organizing the >encyclopedia. > >--- -- --Criptonite Maybe we could all do a certain part of the project, have one standard design and then put it together. >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 09:03:05 EDT From: CRlPTONITE@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Age on the list > This is the list of MML dated Tue, 18 Jun 1996 That's great. I couldn't find myself at first. I forgot I had a prodigy account then. Where did you get this list? - --- -- --Criptonite *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 16:21:18 +0200 (METDST) From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - How to Kill a DM... Hi guys! Tell me, how many of you met in their GMing career players so devious and so clever that they were constantly trying to harass you with every idea and proposal they got? Hey, don't get me wrong: it's not something on the personal basis, but only inside the game. Well, believe it or not, one of my players once challenged me with these words: "Do you believe me when i tell you i am able to kill the DM inside the game?" What would have you thought? I knew he could do it... somewhere inside my brain i knew he was capable of it.. and i wanted to know how could he do it! So i accepted the challenge! Do you think i lost? Well... only partially... For those of you who want to try and guess how the things went before going on reading... S P O I L E R S P A C E Basically, what he did was simple, too damn simple: a question of names... His PC sired a baby, a male one, and he gave him MY NAME (which also happens to have the initials "DM"), so in this way he could have killed that baby and killed the DM inside the game! (From a formal logical point of view, it works). However, been used at his tricks and having developed my own devious countermeasures, i played on his affection for the young child (every powerful wizard wants a child to grow after himself) in the first months of his life, and then i threw in a powerful entity (a Glantrian mage who was able to turn into a demigod using a potion of his own invention he researched fooling von Drachenfels and Herr Doktor) who, during his little war against the party, was able to remain alone with the child. The wizard basically sacrificed himself to let the baby live and was later resurrected. To make a long story short, the party was able to defeat the demigod after a long epic quest... but the wizard knew he had been near his child for more than a day: could he have imbued the child with his own energy, to be reborn in his body? Despite accurate magical tests, nothing was found inside the baby, so he let him live... But now that he's a teenager all the PCs (including his father) fear him, for they know that he is the DM!!! ;) DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 07:42:55 -0700 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Age on the list At 09:18 PM 6/18/98 +0200, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: >This is the list of MML dated Tue, 18 Jun 1996 >[...] >>dadam@wimsey.com This was Derek Adam (Shadow Dragon). A good friend of mine and fellow Mystara DM. He's Not on the list any more -- he found that he just wasn't keeping up with the incoming mail, and so first moved to the digest and then eventually left. >>jam@wimsey.com Ah, my old 'wimsey' address. That brings back fond memories. Too bad they were bought out by the Canadian National ISP "iSTAR" (YUCK! :-P) >>dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca Daniel Boese! Anyone have any idea what happened to him? His consolidated timeline was the best! I counted 118 names in that list >And this is the list of digest members dated Fri, 21 Jun 1996 >[...] Only 28 names here, not bad for the digest. >>dadam@wimsey.com I notice that my friend Derek is listed here too (dadam@wimsey.com), you must have just caught him at the point when he was switching between the two versions. >>TSRInc@aol.com Hey! Shawn whatever-his name is. The "official" net rep of TSR. He's still with them isn't he? I wonder if he's still on the list? Kinda makes me wonder -- when did Bruce Heard join the MML? For some reason I always thought he was around right at the start... hmmm. jenni - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs strawberry@jamm.com <==> http://www.jamm.com/ <------------------------------------------------------------------> God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. Then God started to think: "I should create things *I* like!" And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #436 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, June 19 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 437 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Gaming group structure Re: [MYSTARA] - Character sheet Re: [MYSTARA] - How to Kill a DM... Re: [MYSTARA] - Adakkian Sound settlements Re: [MYSTARA] - Strength (was: Skills in D&D) Re: [MYSTARA] - Weight measure in the almanac. Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen Re: [MYSTARA] - The First Annual MML 24 Hour Tournament! Re: [MYSTARA] - Age on the list [MYSTARA] - My first post to MML... Re: [MYSTARA] - Encyclopedia of Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen [MYSTARA] - Christianity and RPGs (Was - Anit D&D debate) Re: [MYSTARA] - The last moments before The Great Rain of Fire. (FanFic) [MYSTARA] - PROJECTS ON THE MML ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 09:16:31 PDT From: "Azure Ghost" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Gaming group structure >>Also, just out of curiosity, I rekon most people here are DM's, is >>anyone on the list just a player? > I'm just a player, I don't like to DM, I used to do it, but never really liked having to keep them from squabbling with each other. AzureGhost ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 16:55:57 +0100 From: elrond@post.olivant.fo (Jakup Michaelsen) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Character sheet Ok thanks anyway! Jakup - ---------- > Fra: DM > Til: mystara-l@MPGN.COM > Emne: Re: [MYSTARA] - Character sheet > Dato: 18. juni 1998 19.39 > > At 22.39 17/06/98 +0100, Jakup wrote: > >Please, does anyone have a character sheet for OD&D? > > I do, but unfortunately for you, they're in Italian, so you won't be able > to use em.. sorry :9 > > DM > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 12:20:23 -0400 From: "Dimitry Zagadsky" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - How to Kill a DM... - -----Original Message----- From: DM To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM Date: Friday, June 19, 1998 10:34 AM Subject: [MYSTARA] - How to Kill a DM... > Hi guys! > > Tell me, how many of you met in their GMing career players so devious and >so clever that they were constantly trying to harass you with every idea and >proposal they got? Hey, don't get me wrong: it's not something on the >personal basis, but only inside the game. One of my friends looked at the idea of a DM in the game as this: The DM is an overpowered god of some sort. If you find out how to summon him(Wish spell), you can engage in battle or ask 1 question. If you defeat him/her in battle(VERY HIGHLY UNLIKELY) you take his place as DM, and the DM is stripped of all powers. This sounds like a really stupid explaination, but it is possible, in theory. Personally I don't think it's possible to kill a DM in the game. Although it would be a great adventure if the characters tried to. > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 18:26:35 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Adakkian Sound settlements On Thu, 18 Jun 1998, Geoff Gander wrote: > Descriptions of the Settlements of the Adakkian Sound Region: This looks good Geoff! Its too massive for me to make too many concrete comments at the moment though. How much of this is mentioned in TSR material? How much is mentioned in other unoffical sources? I noticed references to Littonia and the Varellyas aswell as several names I belive were mentioned in Net Almanacs, though they may have been created by TSR. > 22. Shaedrin (pop. 3,800): Founded by halflings knocked off course > during the great migration towards Brun in BC 1300, this settlement has > remained largely undisturbed for centuries. Although there is > considerable contact with outsiders, and the ruling sheriff encourages > open exchange of goods, society here remains largely closed to > outsiders. There are no foreigners living within Shaedrin's bounds, and > the inhabitants like it this way. These attitudes are actually a > holdover from the period when the halflings were driven from their homes > by the Varellyans so long ago, though there are no records of the > original events. This place provides good opportunities to observe > halfling culture as it was before extensive contact with outsiders, > where Lalor is spoken almost exclusively, and traditions now forgotten > in the Five Shires are still practised. Overall, the halflings here are > independent, but willing to receive outsiders for a time - so long as > they do not try to impose their ways or overstay their welcome. I was wondering what happened to the original Hin. I think it would be a good idea to make these people even more different from Five Shires Hin if they are developed further. What is the Lalor word for Sherrif? For developing this culture further we could use old middle eastern cultures. I thought about african cultures first, but I realized that their proximity to the Adakkian Sound would make these Hin more like a middle eastern river culture. (Or egyptians, but we already have those:) > PS - As a final note - updates on Kastelios, Garganin, and Polakatsikes > are available in the AC 1015 Almanac. Great! Keep up the good work :) Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 12:38:36 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Strength (was: Skills in D&D) << Because it's logical, at least to me. If this wasn't the case, then the Strength value would be universal, right? So it's basically like saying that a 18 STR giant (or dragon) is no more powerful than a 18 STR halfling! This is nonsense to me!>> In my campaigns, the strength value IS universal. It seems foolish to come up with an individual system for each race in the game. There is practically an infinate amount of races that have been created. How can you possibly compensate for all of them? Do you really have a detailed list of the strengths and abilities for each individual races? If the strength score in universal in the campaign, then all you need to know is the score and you can figure out the abilities. If you have a stone giant with a 17 strength you would have to check up on your stone giant notes to see what thier 17 str. really means. In my campaigns, if a halfling has somehow achieved an 18 in str, then they have all the abilities as anyone else of that race. Just because they are smaller, doesn't mean they don't have to be weaker. >Well, IMC giants have a minimum and a maximum STR: minimum is normally >their maximum minus 6 (calculated basing me on PC3 : Sea Giant has minimum >of 15 and maximum of 21) and the average is halfway. Obviously, the tougher >the PCs, the higher the STR score... :) The STR scores i listed above are >the maximums, the score you get by manufacturing a Girdle of Giant Strength. But what does the strength score matter in your campaign? If a Sea Giant had a 15 strength, it would still be stronger than a 17 strength Elf. Right? - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 13:08:04 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Weight measure in the almanac. << I noted in couple of places in the 1015 almanac, that kilogram is used as the weight unit. I like SI units, but to me it seems to be a bit out of place in a fantasy setting, as it is a bit too "modern". Does anyone else feels the same way? >> It really doesn't matter anything. Unfortunately the first German translation of D&D spoke about "Ellen", "Klafter" and "Miles", the second (RC) about "Meter" and "Kilometer". I can assure you, that it is very hard to get used to that now. Jamuga Khan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 13:08:00 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen << Now, if the Glantrians get in my way, there will be words exchanged...but I hope to avoid such unpleasantness. I'm sure the Glantrians will be reasonable once we've worked out any problems (and fees; I'm going to have to bring the entire Karamekian treasury along when I get to Glantri to pay all the damned fees). Sir Alexius Dannelaran Knight of the Griffon >> But the last bill will be payed with steel! Jamuga Khan "The most depressive Khan of Mystara!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 13:07:57 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen << Jamuga, I'm on this list since January 1996 and I don't recall any discussion involving Ethengar (either in favour or against) before you came here. If I were you I would start thinking about becoming Glantrian, maybe the MML will start attack Glantri then... :-) >> SIGH !! Is it better or worse? I don't know. What I have done might have contraproductive. Jamuga Khan "Greetings from Jamuga Khan, aspiring to become a Prince in Glantri." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 13:08:02 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The First Annual MML 24 Hour Tournament! << If you ever make it Khan, you'll have to play . . . The Glantrian Mage! >> We'll see, but I even visit this continent too often. Actually, I was only once in my lifetime in America. Jamuga Khan "America, a nice country to conquer! Many plains!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 13:19:25 EDT From: CRlPTONITE@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Age on the list << Kinda makes me wonder -- when did Bruce Heard join the MML? For some reason I always thought he was around right at the start... hmmm. jenni >> No, he hasn't been here long. He came around the time of Mystaros and Alex295 I think. I remember those 3 were among the people dominating the AOL Mystara boards before they came to the MML. - --- -- --Criptonite *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 11:00:00 PDT From: "Michael Burridge" Subject: [MYSTARA] - My first post to MML... Hi everyone, I just got myself added to the Mystara Mailing List, so I thought I'd send out a little "test post". Then again, I'll get myself flamed to death if that's the only reason I have for sending this message around, so I'd better mention something that's actually Mystara related. Hmm... Does anyone know where I could get a copy of "Dark Night's Terror"? I've got B1-B9, but I'm missing B10, which is (of course) the definitive karameikos adventure"! It drives me nuts! Help me! Mike ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 18:51:58 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Encyclopedia of Mystara? >>Has anyone taken charge of this project? I would like to volunteer to >write >>the Blackmoor section, but I have no idea who will be organizing the >>encyclopedia. >> I could volunteer to write some entries for Glantri. ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html Join the Mystaran Birthright PBEM at the above website! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 15:41:48 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skills in D&D On Thu, 18 Jun 1998, Jesse LaBranche wrote: > Immortals chart. Generally, decide on the "average" for that race subtract > 10.5 and make that the bonus for the race. precisely :) Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 20:49:13 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bowmen and Horsemen A***! I got disconnected for a couple of days for not paying my phone bill, and now I have a LARGE number of emails... > > Especially now that Alphatia has gone...I think it should take a long > > time for Karameikos to get anywhere near rivaling the Great School. > > As for the 250 36th level mages in Thyatis? Not IMC... > > I just can't agree here. Glantri is known for its mages but because > they are know for magic, that should mean they are the most powerful > mages in the Known World. There could be many mages to rival a > Glantrian that never sets foot in the Great School. Now, if you're > talking about mages with political power, Glantri is it but mastery of > magic.. they're just one of many. Besides, isn't it the Radiance that > makes them powerful in magic? When they leave Glantri, don't they lose > that connection? I disagree. Glantri is a wizard magnet. Since the days of Alexander Glantri, the most powerful mages of the KW have been drawn toward Glantri. Partly because it is the best place to meet other mages and find magical lore and expertise, but also because of the Radience. This is why the mages of Glantri are the most powerful ones. The mages of Karameikos are sissies. At least according to Gaz1. in the coming years Karameikos will probably become a rival of Glantri and thats cool. The rest of the nations have little info on how powerful their mages are, but I think they should be less powerful than the ones in Glantri. I saw your comment on how this would strengthen the national stereotypes, but I think we need these, so that we can break the later on. If we don't have any stereotypes, everyone will seem pretty standard fantasy. In my Karameikos campaign, Glantrian wizards are seen as increadibly powerful. Karameikan wizards speak about how Glantrians are arrogant snobs, though at night they dream of entering the Great School. (This is AC1000, so no School of Magecraft.) If you want your players to make non-glantrian mages you should make sure that the other mages are interesting aswell. Maybe they are very good at one type of magic, but not as good as the glantrians overall. Or maybe they just have a cool image. :) Håvard I have the Karameikans using ancient Nithia/Traladaran type spells. More of a redisocovery of the past, than original magical research (which is what Glantrians get up to). I like the idea of Karameikos having magic based on the elemental schools and Glantri on the schools of philosophy (I had actually done this myself - i even had Herath as the schools of thaumaturgy to round things out...). As an idea for some Karameikan spells - Summon Minor Death - level 5 spell, conjures up a Minor Death (from a Deck of Many Things) which attacks a selected victim until either the Death is killed or the victim is, range 30 yards. Suitable for card carrying gypsy types... Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 13:06:11 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Christianity and RPGs (Was - Anit D&D debate) With the subject of the Anti-D&D debate that recently ran, I thought you might be interested in this thread posted on the RL list. Later. Jesse. >> what do you mean why? it's because if you start to cross fiction with >> reality your mind may start to twist a little then a little until you can't >> tell the difference. and MR. role playing doesn't need that kind of bad rap, >> which it a ready has with religion. > >Speaking as a Christian that plays I would like to offer my thoughts on >religion and RPGs, now that it has come up. > >Believe it or not, there are a lot of Christians who play, and the >numbers are growing. Many of you who may have had an "encounter" with a >religious individual concerning RPGs may have a bad taste in your mouth >due to that. Let me assure you that those same people look down on >Christians who play even more. Why do they do this, I don't know, all I >can say is that I still love them and pray for them, if for nothing else >to get some understanding on the subject before they pass judgement. In >my best guess this behavior 95% - 99% of the time it is due to >ignorance. > >When I encounter someone who (Christian or not, but in this case we are >talking about religious people) who has an offense to playing the first >thing I do is to ask them what they know and understand about gaming. >Most of the time they don't know much but tall tales and heresay. Some >of the greatest misconceptions that I find are the following... > >--That AD&D is the only roleplaying game. >When you talk about RPGs, people automatically think of AD&D and what >they've heard that they don't like (multi-pantheon religion system, >magic, violence, demons...). They don't understand there are OTHER >SYSTEMS OUT THERE, such as GURPS, Boot Hill, Alternity, Star Frontiers, >Traveler, Battletech, Warhammer 40K. The first thing I try to do is to >get them to understand that while AD&D is not roleplaying is ONE RPG, it >is not the ONLY RPG. Once people understand that there are other RPGs >out there that don't have these elements that they don't like, they will >realize there is more to this than they thoght, and they don't know all >that they thought they did. > >--AD&D promotes devil worship >While I'm sure there are some people who play AD&D (and other RPGs) that >participate in the practice of Satanism, there are tens of thousands who >don't. Besides, I would believe most cases where the two interact the >individual had ties to the occult directly, or through friends, long >before they started playing RPGs. The rate of people who practice >Satanism and play AD&D has got to be the same as for people who listen >to rock music, if not near the same numbers that breathe. > >--AD&D promotes idolatry through worshiping other gods >AD&D contains a multi-pantheon system of dieties. There is no way >around that. But, this is not some list someone made up and through in >a book, the pantheons are based on ancient religions such as Greek, >Norse, and Roman. To me the pantheons are more a history and mythology >lesson than anything else. There are source books available to play >Christian campaigns (see the green Historical Reference Series, esp. the >Crusades). Besides the rules are not set in stone, IMC (and the >subsequent campaigns of many people I DMed for) I rewrote the Faerun >(Forgotten Realms) panthoen so that almost all of the churches are >viewed as individual denominations under a mono-theistic system based >under Ao (which is modeled after the Chrisitan religion in pre-Christ, >Jewish, times). I point this out, because for my campaigns that do not >start in Ravenloft (few do), they always start in FR and then move to >Ravenloft. > >--AD&D promotes violence >Sure, AD&D could bring out the inherent violence in someone, just like >music, guns, or anything else where agression plays a part (as it does >in combat in any RPG). I refuse to believe that any one thing makes a >person violent, without them already being so, to some extent. Just a >reminder, all of the stories that we heard about -- "so and so getting >killed...," or "that guy out in...," or "remember that little girl who >was killed by..." -- have never been substantiated. There have never >been any police records to show that anyone has ever been hurt, much >less killed, due to people playing RPGs. > >--AD&D exposes people to demons >Hate to burst anyones bubble, but there are demons in this world, doing >their best to infleuence each of us. No one needs AD&D style stats on >paper to be exposed to demons. Now, as far as demons go, I have no >problem with whipping a few now and then, I dunno - maybe it's just me. >I REALLY don't think that any of the demons (by whatever name they are >listed, and whatever edition you are referring to) in the rule books are >anywhere near a real representation of what real-life demons are like. > >--AD&D exposes people to magic >AD&D does have a magic system in it, plain and simple. But, I don't >think that saying "OK, my mage is going to case fireball," is in any way >going to teach me how to use magic. Remember, if this is a hang up for >someone, there are other RPGs out there who use magic (Warhammer 40K, >Boothill, Traveler). One Christian friend of mine, who for a long time >was against AD&D, realized that while for some reason he didn't like >AD&D having magic in it, he never thought twice about "The Force" and >"Star Wars" (he was a HUGE "Star Wars" buff). Just something that you >might want to point out, in a very tactful manner, of course. > >--AD&D causes the lines of fantasy and reality to be blurred for people >For some people, sure. But, my arguement is the same as it is for >violence, this type of person is going to have those tendencies anyway, >the RPG just happened to be the outlet chosen. I'm sorry, but I think >there are far more people in this country obsessed by sports, than there >are obsessed by RPGs. Besides, playing an RPG actually takes social >graces, communication skills, a minimum reading level, minimum math >skills, and imagination; last time I checked none of these were >necessary to veg out in front of the TV all day and night watching >whatever game, race, or tournament was on. > >One last thing, invite someone to a gaming session. Many of my >Christian friends took me up on the offer to come watch a session. All >of them left with a different perspective on RPGs. Many of them left >saying, "Well, why I wouldn't enjoy playing, I really don't see anything >inherently wrong with it." Heck, a few of them even started playing. >Most people never realized that most of the gaming session was spent >(though it certainly wasn't time wasted) looking for dice, looking up >rules, getting cokes, calling the pizza guy, scrounging for money to pay >the pizza guy, fighting over pizza, quoting movie lines, retelling >stories, and telling the same old jokes (example - Person A, "Man can >y'all hurry up, this encounter sure is draggin',"; Person B, "DRAGON!!! >WHERE!!!") Now granted that if you are playing evil characters, spend >half the time swearing (which still isn't caused by the game), or if you >play with people who actually think they ARE their character; then >inviting someone to a session probably won't do any good. But, if you >are like most players who love to play every so often, and for the most >part playing is nothing more than an excuse to get together, invite >someone who really doesn't understand the game. Make a trade, tell >someone that if they come to a gaming session, you'll go to church with >them, it's only fair. > >All in all, sit down and TALK WITH EACH OTHER, hopefully you will each >learn something valuable. > >I'm sorry if this wasn't completely on topic. If anyone would like to >discuss with me anything to do with Christianity, Christianity in an >RPG, or Christians and Christian players, please email me private, I >would be happy to discuss this with anyone. > >-- >In Him, >Skippy >I Peter 3:15 >"Go into all the world and preach the Gospel...and if you must use >words." -- St. Francis of Assisi >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe ravenloft' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 21:19:27 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The last moments before The Great Rain of Fire. (FanFic) >> IIRC Benekander was NOT the chief engineer of the Beagle. Please >> don't promote him afterwards. > >No he wasn't, I think he was engineer's mate. (furtively rereading WotI) >That's my bust. In my previous story, I had the captain talking to him, >maybe the Cheif was off duty? Anyway, a little artistic licence can be >forgiven in the eyes of the Immortals. > >Heck, they let Joshuan propose his theory of the Hollow World, did they >not? > >> Good story! I like it. > >Thank you very much :) Lol. Anyone familiar with Red Dwarf? Benekander could be like 2nd technician Arnold Rimmer, who killed all the crew on the Red Dwarf due to his own incompetance... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 16:23:07 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - PROJECTS ON THE MML The Working Groups of the Mystara Mailing List compiled by Geoff Gander, with help from Hervé Musseau, Fabrizio Paoli, and Marco Dalmonte Mystaran Net Almanac Continuing where the Poor Wizard's Almanacs and Joshuan's Almanac left off, a small group of dedicated Mystara fans has kept the idea of this publication alive. Each year an issue is released, detailling the various events that happen in Mystara for a given year, as well as providing details on new nations, and important developments. If you wish to take part in this production, feel free to contact the following people for more information: Alphatian Sea: Herve Musseau (herve@hotmail.com) Hollow World: Thorfinn Tait (Rathanos@velvia.demon.co.uk), or Herve Musseau Isle of Dawn: Andrew Theisen (jsmill@imap1.asu.edu), or Herve Musseau Jungle Coast: Geoff Gander (ganderg@tc.gc.ca) Norwold: Marco Dalmonte (mdalmonte@hotmail.com), or Herve Musseau Wendar/Denagoth: Marco Dalmonte (mdalmonte@hotmail.com) Old World: Michael Roy (mroy@cyberus.ca) (Heldannic Knights): Geoff Gander (ganderg@tc.gc.ca) (Shadow Elves): Fabrizio Paoli (brizio@lunet.it) (Goblinoids): Andrew Theisen (jsmill@imap1.asu.edu) (Atruaghin): Andrew Theisen (jsmill@imap1.asu.edu) Savage Coast: Michael Roy (mroy@cyberus.ca) (City-States): Fabrizio Paoli (brizio@lunet.it) (Hule): Fabrizio Paoli (brizio@lunet.it) (Yavdlom): Fabrizio Paoli (brizio@lunet.it) and Geoff Gander (ganderg@tc.gc.ca) (Gombar/Suma'a) Shawn Stanley (shawn@leme.anu.edu.au) Economica Fabrizio Paoli (brizio@lunet.it) MOrient Project Although the continent of Brun on Mystara has received a lot of detail, whole sections of this world have not. This group is developing oriental cultures, with a distinctly Mystaran flavour, for the mysterious continent of Skothar, the great eastern continent. If you want to participate in developing new cultures and ideas that break the stereotypes, why not contact Joe Duncan (jduncan2@chat.carleton.ca)? NPC Gallery Tired of reusing the same old NPCs? Ever wish you had a vast collection of NPCs available at your fingertips to add extra depth to your campaign? Why not contact Jenni Merrifield (strawberry@jamm.com)? She has a collection of various NPCs, from all walks of life, that you can easily insert in your own campaigns. All of these have been contributed by fellow list members. If you have some NPCs of your own you'd like to share, why not send them to her? Cynidicea Working Group B4 - The Lost City. This classic adventure details the lost, underground city of Cynidicea, a realm of bizarre inhabitants and fierce otherworldly beings. The members of this group feel that much more can be had from this scenario than what is already written, and they are working to both add extra details, and expand the adventure into a full-scale campaign setting for all levels of play. Interested? Email Geoff Gander (au998@freenet.carleton.ca) for more information. SaveMystara Working Group Although Mystara products are no longer produced by TSR, some members of this list are dedicated to bringing it back. Using petitions, home-written adventures to be published by the RPGA, and other means, these people are diligently trying to get our favourite campaign world published once again. Want to join in on the action? We can always use an extra hand! Contact Jeff Daly (jdaly@friend.ly.net) for more information. Alphatian Gazetteers Alphatia, empire of intrigue and mystery. In all of TSR's official products concerning this vast empire, very little information was actually given concerning what goes on in the various kingdoms that comprise this great empire, or even what these kingdoms are like. This group is trying to change this by writing up short gazetteers describing the various cities of each of these kingdoms, major political players, as well as a general feel for what each of these realms is like. There's plenty of room for your imagination here, and there is so much left to do! Contact Jeff Daly (jdaly@friend.ly.net) or Geoff Gander (au998@freenet.carleton.ca) for more information. Ancient Mystara Although "official" sources say the first great civilization was Blackmoor, some sages realize that this is not so. Great empires and heroes flourished, and fell, in a time long before the men of Blackmoor placed stone upon stone. What remains of these ancient realms today? Do the obsidian spires of ancient Y'hog still rise high, somewhere beneath the seas, do the men of fabled Lhomarr still live upon this world, and what of the great artifacts of yore that were lost in those ancient times? If you are interested in adding more detail to a Mystara of long ago, or of creating remnants of that time for the present day, send an email to Geoff Gander (au998@freenet.carleton.ca), Matt Levy (mlevy@orion.acu.edu), or Mystaros (mystaros@aol.com). Davania Team Davania, the forgotten continent. This phrase no longer applies, as year by year more explorers bravely head south, probing deeper into forgotten jungles and hellish deserts, uncovering remnants of empires long dead, and those still living. These are realms beyond the knowledge of even the brightest sages, different from those of the "Known World." If you are interested in developing new cultures or ideas for this fascinating continent, contact Geoff Gander (au998@freenet.carleton.ca) for more information. Underocean What lurks under the seas of Mystara? Far more than a realm of the deeps, Underocean is home to a vast range of interesting races and cultures. Witness the turmoil as the kingdoms of the merrow and the tritons fight off insidious hordes of devilfish, observe the aquatic elves fashion wonders only dreamed of by land swellers. While the lands of Mystara are vast, those lying under the sea are still greater. Join Aaron Nowack (anowack@juno.com) as he plumbs the depths on the world. If you are interested in helping out, drop him an email... Mystaraspace Project Does Mystara have its own Green Men? This group of discussion is trying to find out! Join it to flesh out the planets and the secrets of Mystara's Voidspace, linking it with other canonical and new sources for both Mystara and other TSR settings. Knowledge of Spelljammer is good but not required: what you should bring here is Fantasy and Unlimited Imagination! Contact Marco Dalmonte (mdalmonte@hotmail.com). ********* If I missed any group, let me know. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #437 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message.