mystara-digest Tuesday, June 30 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 461 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Quest - Prologue Re: [MYSTARA] - CHURCHES Re: [MYSTARA] - The Quest - Prologue Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! Re: [MYSTARA] - Who took over whose mind? (was: Who took over Ha Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! [MYSTARA] - Ochalea, Thyatis, and orcs... Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! [MYSTARA] - Doriath Re: [MYSTARA] - Cannibals Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! Re: [MYSTARA] - The Grand Council of Alphatia - long [MYSTARA] - BGPD Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! [MYSTARA] - We've got some attention ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 21:26:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Quest - Prologue At 02:08 PM 6/29/98 +0200, you wrote: >>If the rules lawyers need a rationale for the potion-thing, I'll say it was >>a potion of extra-healing, and he licked up a third of it to get the >>equivalent of a single potion of healing, which was enough to clear the >>shock from his system. Good enough? >> >No problem. I just wasn't sure if yours was just a story or something >really happened to your character (or group) during a gaming session. Okay. The flashbacks are game history. The 'current events' part of the story is my own version of events after the campaign died. I was running a campaign after this, and Alexius was an NPC. Right now he's in Limbo, hopefully not for long. The potion thing did happen in a game, just not to Alexius. I stole it for him because it was a cool idea. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 00:53:56 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - CHURCHES In a message dated 98-06-29 06:53:30 EDT, ezaqwazy@hotmail.com writes: > This all comes about because TSR decided in OD&D to use law v chaos to > be BOTH moral and ethical. If you substitute good for lawful in > paladin`s case and evil for chaotic in case of avenger then it all > works, sort of, but there should still be some followers of evil who > have human/demihuman henchmen/hirelings surely? There is another way to interpret the restriction on Avenger followers: we could simply assume that humans and demi-humans have a slight bias towards law while goblinoids have a bias towards chaos. Then "evil" Avengers would recruit goblinoids because they tend to be nasty creatures, while "good" Avengers could be showing racial tolerance and attempt to "enlighten" those creatures with such bad reputations. Alternatively, the requirements could be established so that Paladins are required to associate only with "respectable" types while Avengers would associate only with "outcasts" -- with the type of "outcast" that is to be considered acceptable to be determined by the nature of the Immortal followed. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 00:53:57 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Quest - Prologue In a message dated 98-06-29 08:43:48 EDT, ezaqwazy@hotmail.com writes: > If any of this sort start developing traits of munchkinitis kill their > character IMMEDIATLY whilst you sill have the chance!! <;-P No problem there -- my players often do come up with such crazy ideas. My usual response is -- "I like that idea, but -- no, sorry, it doesn't work that way." Either that, or I come up with a nasty "side effect" that the player didn't think of. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 08:53:10 +0200 (EET DST) From: Anias Pasi Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! ROB wrote: > >>He's a 26th > >>level wizard (last time I saw him) with a bunch of nasty magic items and > >>more knowledge about the Realms than the Library of Congress. > >>However, Terari or Eriadna could take him apart. :-) > According to the Darokin Gaz, a 36th level D+D wizard is the equivalent of a > 28th level AD+D wizard. So Eriadna could, at least (she hasnt been > converted to level 20 yet, like Terari... And I reckon she should be 40th, > at least, because she is cool...) Well, one should note, that at those levels it's really not up to the level of the mage. (I'm not going into it, its been discussed before) But just to tell more about Elminster to the original mailer; According to a novel by Greenwood, Elminster the making of a mage, Elminster is really a multiclass Fighter/Tief/Cleric/Mage. Furthermore he's a psionic, he has Spellfire (makes him something of a magicresistant mage-killer) plus he has some part of Mystras (The Goddess of Magic, El's sweetheart) power for he's personal use. You might call Greenwood a munckin... Anyway, summasummarum, Eriadna wouldn't have a chance (on a personal basis), Etienne might... Pasi P.S. Did my mail of Cannibalism came thru a couple of days ago? - -- X Pasi Anias X p.03 - 2533536 X \\|// X X Sammonkatu 28 A 18 X a122286@proffa X (o o) X X 33540 Tampere X .cc.tut.fi X o000--(_)--000o X *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 09:34:58 +0000 (GMT) From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Who took over whose mind? (was: Who took over Ha >In the previous Episode: > ><could have taken over Havard's mind.>> > >Today, after much time spent looking for evidences, we have finally come to >the conclusion that somebody has taken over Gordon's mind and is plotting >the downfall of the whole list. For this reason, it is Not Haavard's but >Gordon's mind that we are examining now! Doh! Someone *always* finds out...sheesh... >So who took over Gordon's mind? > >#1 - Haavard, in an attempt to fool us all he first accused himself using >his puppet and in this way he deviated suspects from his new pawn; I wish I knew how to put the little o thing over the a... >#2 - Geoff, who after being exposed as a Paranoid (or panasonic?) field >agent tried the last resource: throwing Khan to the angry mob and hiding >himself in Gordon's body; That's who it was! I thought I was putting on weight...you can get out of my body now! >#3 - Jamuga Khan, who will finally have somebody on his side (merely >another signature for the same guy, for what we know..) But, but, but, but!!! Glantri! It's cool! Don't make me work for the smelly Ethengarians! Noooooooo!!!!!!11 >#4 - Cthulhudrew, who after millennia spent sleeping under the ocean has >developed not only the worst rheumatisms possible but also a double >personality (Drew the unforgiven Deity and Gordon the unforgettable Clown >-might be the same clown living under the sewers of Derry, knowing his love >for damp places..) Mmmm...sewers of Derry.... >#5 - Leroy, because He Can Do Everything (don't you know we are all >creations of his depressed mind?.. whoops, that was supposed to be the >final revelation, uh?) Can't have been Leroy! Don't you know that when a list admin takes over a mere mortal, the mortal disintigrates? :) >#6 - Nyarlathothep (just to show you I AM ABLE TO WRITE THAT without >looking in the books!!) Show off :) :) >#7 - Brizio, trying to counterbalance Khan's influence on the list Umn, while Brizio appears, I hope none of the Itilian sounding people mind me stealing your names for my game...the PC's were in Darokin, I needed a name or two that sounded italian and er, umn, sorry that you're a bad guy now :) >#8 - Mystaros, who never existed actually: it has always been an invention >of the members of the list. However, it seems that sometime in the past he >was able to form a mind of his own and began roaming around trying to >possess one of the list members' body... [The host body can be recognized >because he's constantly babbling about Creatures from Beyond and drooling >over corpses while yelling: "This comes from Taymora!"] Dont' believe it! The greatest trick Mystaros ever played, was convincing the list he didn't exist! >#9 - Herve, just to have a break, shake his legs, do vicious things using >another body and show us what he can do but always refrains from Ouch... >#10 - Gareth, who was so upset with our talks about his ID that he chose to >make us experience just the same thing (which reinforces the theory he's a >chaotic lad!) Or...was it Rad, or Benekander, or Odin, or Loki, or an Old One, taking over Havard, or DM, or Leroy, or Brizio's mind to take over mine, to accuse Khan, and wait, I'm confussled already! >#11 - Hardcastle, who finally reunited with his friend McCormick from the >Outerworld :) >#12 - DM, either me or my bald guy double, for We know why.. You know this would be completely off topic if it wasn't for the mention of the DM :) :) gordon (btw, I spent five minutes giggling at this and getting funny looks from my coworkers, thanks :) :) ) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 12:49:37 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! - ---- >But just to tell more about Elminster to the original mailer; >According to a novel by Greenwood, Elminster the making of a mage, >Elminster is really a multiclass Fighter/Tief/Cleric/Mage. Furthermore >he's a psionic, he has Spellfire (makes him something of a magicresistant >mage-killer) plus he has some part of Mystras (The Goddess of Magic, El's >sweetheart) power for he's personal use. You might call Greenwood a >munckin... I never realised that Elminster had turned into Mordenkainen... Typical Realms, I suppose... >Anyway, summasummarum, Eriadna wouldn't have a chance (on a personal >basis), Etienne might... Hmm. I wonder how he would fare against one of my aranea mage/psionicists with Circle of Alchemy and 90 golems... I also remember that Mystra is not quite a Goddess of Magic - she is the goddess of the Weave, a uniquely Realms phenomenon... :) You fail to realise - Mystara will ALWAYS win... :) Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 13:24:52 +0000 (GMT) From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! >>But just to tell more about Elminster to the original mailer; >>According to a novel by Greenwood, Elminster the making of a mage, >>Elminster is really a multiclass Fighter/Tief/Cleric/Mage. Furthermore >>he's a psionic, he has Spellfire (makes him something of a magicresistant >>mage-killer) plus he has some part of Mystras (The Goddess of Magic, El's >>sweetheart) power for he's personal use. You might call Greenwood a >>munckin... > >I never realised that Elminster had turned into Mordenkainen... >Typical Realms, I suppose... Oh dear, Elminster is worse than I thought...sigh... >>Anyway, summasummarum, Eriadna wouldn't have a chance (on a personal >>basis), Etienne might... > >Hmm. I wonder how he would fare against one of my aranea mage/psionicists >with Circle of Alchemy and 90 golems... I also remember that Mystra is not >quite a Goddess of Magic - she is the goddess of the Weave, a uniquely >Realms phenomenon... :) Actually, the Weave sounds cool, but anyways... >You fail to realise - Mystara will ALWAYS win... :) That's what I like to see! Never mind character statistics, or stories written about Elminster, we've got blind loyalty and by the grace of Leroy, Mystara will always win on this list! (Yeah, FR may win on another list, but that's a seperate story) gordon, who's still a bit peeved at the way Dalamar is presented in the Wizards Three... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 09:28:47 -0400 From: Daly Subject: [MYSTARA] - Ochalea, Thyatis, and orcs... I have been giving some thought to Ochalea, copper-skinned "Asians" from Alphatia, and the similarity between Ochalea and China... I am thinking, since much of China's identity (at least in my limited mind) springs from competition with Japan--and what I mean by this is two distinct warrior cultures which are in constant challenge with each other...one huge and powerful, the other small and strong--why not make a "Japanese" culture for Ochalea's "foil". Now, Ochalea's similarity with China pretty much begins and ends with names, and physical descriptions as far as canon is concerned. We don't have a huge Ethengar right next to Ochalea...we don't even have Ochalea on a continent. Rather, Ochalea is an island itself...and therefore similar to Japan at least in one way... So perhaps Thyatis would be the proper foil for Ochalea since it is a continental empire and a warrior culture... Or perhaps...perhaps there is an island on the tip of the Thaniegioth Archipelago which consists of a group of well-disciplined, fierce, honorable orcs. They are empirical and out for conquest...but they obey certain strict codes of behaviour.... Any thoughts? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 06:44:57 PDT From: "Spencer Graham" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! > >---- >>But just to tell more about Elminster to the original mailer; >>According to a novel by Greenwood, Elminster the making of a mage, >>Elminster is really a multiclass Fighter/Tief/Cleric/Mage. Furthermore >>he's a psionic, he has Spellfire (makes him something of a magicresistant >>mage-killer) plus he has some part of Mystras (The Goddess of Magic, El's >>sweetheart) power for he's personal use. You might call Greenwood a >>munckin... > I knew there was a reason I was underwhelmed by the Realms..... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 15:33:54 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Doriath Hello, Another question for people with Alfheim GAZ: Does King Doriath have a wife or children? What is his relation to clanmaster Brendian Erendyl? ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html Join the Mystaran Birthright PBEM at the above website! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 11:19:10 EDT From: DuncanTKD@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Cannibals In a message dated 98-06-29 08:04:50 EDT, ezaqwazy@hotmail.com << ........ from the `tomato revolutionary front` will be accepted. <;-P >> Hmmmmm...... I wonder if there are any madly, crazed mages on Mystara that believe that intelligent plants should rule the world or that are trying to bestow ordinary plants with intellegence. But what kind of creatures could he create? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 11:28:20 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! On Tue, 30 Jun 1998, Anias Pasi wrote: > According to a novel by Greenwood, Elminster the making of a mage, > Elminster is really a multiclass Fighter/Tief/Cleric/Mage. Furthermore > he's a psionic, he has Spellfire (makes him something of a magicresistant > mage-killer) plus he has some part of Mystras (The Goddess of Magic, El's > sweetheart) power for he's personal use. You might call Greenwood a > munckin... Munchkin? Nonono.. Greenwood is a Mega-Munchkin. If a player actually succeeded at doing that, I'd be surprised if their character was over 100 years old. (And IMC, a few Immortals would have words with that character) Fighter/Cleric/Mage/Theif, jeez. What are the realms coming to... Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 11:16:13 -0500 From: "Timothy R. Haney" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! SteelAngel wrote: > > Munchkin? Nonono.. Greenwood is a Mega-Munchkin. If a player actually > succeeded at doing that, I'd be surprised if their character was over 100 > years old. (And IMC, a few Immortals would have words with that character) > > Fighter/Cleric/Mage/Theif, jeez. What are the realms coming to... I'm reading that book at the moment. Yes, Elminster did use a sword at one time (that's about as far as I am) but that was fine with me as I never bought the idea a future mage (he's not a mage yet) only could use dinnerwear as a weapon ;> - -- This has been a Galwylin® Production The Tome of Galwylin (http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/) galwylin@airnet.net | ICQ #6755972 | AIM: Galwylin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 19:22:50 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! - ----- >You fail to realise - Mystara will ALWAYS win... :) > >That's what I like to see! Never mind character statistics, or >stories written about Elminster, we've got blind loyalty and by the >grace of Leroy, Mystara will always win on this list! > >(Yeah, FR may win on another list, but that's a seperate story) > >gordon, who's still a bit peeved at the way Dalamar is presented in >the Wizards Three... Incidentally, one of my friends is running a Greyhawk adventure (the Return of the Eight, or something like that) which he recently bought, and its possible to become a member!!! (its high level). And the planewalking party wizard is me, Mystaran aranea wizard with probability travel... In at least one little corner of the cosmos, a Mystaran wild mage will be Up There with the Greats... :) Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 19:30:17 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! - --- >Munchkin? Nonono.. Greenwood is a Mega-Munchkin. If a player actually >succeeded at doing that, I'd be surprised if their character was over 100 >years old. (And IMC, a few Immortals would have words with that character) > >Fighter/Cleric/Mage/Theif, jeez. What are the realms coming to... I guess it was only a matter of time. Its similar to Star Wars (a worthy RPG, if I do say so). Check out the stats for the film characters - they are through the roof! I think this is just so your bounty hunter character cant capture Han Solo or beat up Boba Fett. Apparently Han Solo has one of the best Con scores in the galaxy. An example of this in action... "Uh, we had a slight 'weapons malfunction', but everythings fine here, now, really. How are you?" Thats a feature I really dislike in an RPG setting. You cant mess with the status quo on most worlds, because the NPC bosses are just unbelievably hard (and the writers have they heads very far (rest of sentence censored). And the lack of this feature on Mystara (pretty well, anyway) is what makes Mystara the best world. (Although its of note that most Ravenloft adventures usually have drastic consequences for the Demiplane of Dread - removing domains, freeing darklords, that sort of thing. But Ravenloft is the second best campaign setting, so that doesnt really surprise me...) Cheerz ROB (who reckons this has been discussed before. So dont bother replying) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 16:37:46 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Grand Council of Alphatia - long << I'm very, very impressed. Who wrote that? Agent Khan? Sounds a bit like the British House of Lords. Fitting, I suppose, as its supposed to be a regulatory body. >> No, this was the official material for visitors of the Grand Council, but it has costed me a dozen men and hundred horses to smuggle it out of the Empire. :-) But I'm pleased to read that at least one man is happy with that difficult peace of work. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 16:37:54 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - BGPD And another report about organziations in Alphatia. Read it and get the sense of wonder. http://members.aol.com/JamugaKhan Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." =========================================== The Blackheart Golem Police Department A Study about History and Structure  written by Jamuga Khan   Every Alphatian knows that the Kingdom of Blackheart is more unsual as most others. Its main industries lies in the privacy it grants to every Alphatian noble who wants to keep undisturbed while working on his projects. A control over these projects simply does not exist. The kings and queens of Blackheart were never interested in that. As a consequence of this attitude Blackheart is known to be a somewhat lawless place. This is of course not true. All Imperial laws are valid, only that some of them are simply overlooked. The most important of all laws, the only truely Blackheartian law, is: "Be quiet and do not disturbe anybody!" In the wideness of the Ugly Woods ist very simple to keep this, but in the capital Shraek sometimes unwanted events occur. So even in this dark, but tolerant kingdom there is a need for a police. The rulers of Blackheart had not wasted much effort, though. Mostly they divided the city between some gangs or groups of mercenaries who got a commission to for a quarter of the city.   It worked for some centuries until, only a few decades ago, a aspiring and brutal, but not too intelligent gang leader went a step to far. It was absolutely normal that the "police" groups were corrupt and treacherous. It was normal too, that they pressed money for protection from the commoners. At this time they had even begun to fight against each others to increase their quarter and to steal the other gang's money.   But Lordar, leader of the Black Hand Guard, had started to burn down the houses other gangs were protecting and commited the gang war with extreme brutality. Perhaps sooner or later the other gangs would have banded together to destroy Lordar, but the minister of internal affairs discovered that Lordar planned to eliminate even the palace guard.   It is not known whether Lordar planned to become the man behind the throne or aspired to be king himself but the king has heard enough and send his guard after him. The guard caught Lordar completely unprepared and made a really short process.   The king was not too happy. The arrangement which his family has used for centuries were on the verge of collapse. In this situation another actor entered stage: Enwan G. Oshakotak.   Enwan was an unusual man even in Blackheart. His mother were fascinated by the western customs to have two names and gave her son his two names. His father was a wizard who spent much time in his tower in Blackheart to create constructs. Even he didn't spend very much time with his son, Enwan was fascinated by all this golems, statues and gargoyles. After the death of his father not only he inherited his fathers constructs, but increased the number by own creations. It was this time when he decided to give himself a third name: Golem.   At some point of his life he had a problem most wizards will meet sooner or later: He had no more money. In this situation he leased his constructs and found a little income. One of his customer asked for protection of his property. This day a new idea was born: The Blackheart Golem Guards. Enwan restructured his constructs and formed a hierarchy. The mighty golems became the common soldiers, the statues petty officers and the clever magen officers. The business went well and E.G.O., as his personal sig unter the documents says, earned enough money to continue his own work.  When Lordar was removed, Enwan asked for the commission and the king gave him the job. The sight of patrolling golems and statues was a shock for all inhabitants of Shraek. On the other hand there was no brutality and the inhabitants of the B.G.G. quarter felt a great relief. The B.G.G. kept the quarter absolutely peaceful and attacking gangs had to reconsider the wisdom of their strategy. This went so far that the commoners even continued to pay to their guard although Enwan hadn't ask. (He wanted but was too distracted by his current project.)   When inhabitants on the borders started to change their quarter the other gangs had enough. They banded together, collected and stealt all magical weapons they could and attacked. Unfortunately for them the B.G.G. officers were well prepared for this attack. It became a complete disaster. With a minimum of damage to the buildings they annihilated the invaders. After that the minister of internal affairs decided to fire the gangs and he gave the king the advice to lay the reponsibility for the city's security into one hand, Enwan's.   Enwan accepted and called back all his constructs employed in other projects to form the new city guard. This experiment, and it was one, went well. Constructs are strong, but not greedy, and they know how to follow orders. Five years later the king gave E.G.O. a 50 year contract with himself the police president of Shraek. At this point Enwan renamed his company, the B.G.G. into Blackheart Golem Police Department, as it is known today.   Nowadays Shraek is again what it ever was supposed to be: The most calm city of Alphatia.   All over Shraek spreaded are twelve police stations and one headquarter from which the constructs handle the daily business. Enwan G. Oshakotak is normally in his tower in the Ugly Woods and continues his various projects. On the streets of Shraek are patrols of normally two golems and one statue, which can be reinforced by a good amount reserves in the stations. Under these reserves, the special enforcing commands (SEC), are some groups which consist of statues lead by magen (for the tasks which require more intelligence than strength). Five wings to each three gargoyles patrol the skies of Shraek and the rarely murder or theft is handled by the criminal police which consists almost completely of lower ranking magen officers.   The headquarter is one of the most spectacular sights in Shraek. All around the house are placed statues with gargoyles on the roof. They look like normal ones, but of course they are all constructs which can be send into action quickly. The look of an empty police headquarter would be tremendous, but it never has happened until today. One of the tasks the BGPD is fulfilling now is that of a fire fighting troop, but there is still a "living" unit. Over that the policemen have the standing order to help every citizen as good as they can. The creation costs are tremendously high, of course, but maintaining the troop intact is surprisingly cheap as they need no houses, furniture, food or sleep. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 15:00:37 -0700 (PDT) From: larry palmer Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! - ---Rob wrote: > >In the realms the gods limited magics to 9th level. > >Does anyone know of a limitation like this in Mystara? > > > > > Not that I know of. But I reckon a 9th level spell should be capable of > doing just about anything which magic can do. (You dont need 10th level > spells if you have Wish, IMO). Especially with Radiance spells, I think > they are Mystaras equivalent of 10th level spells (and far cooler, IMO). > > You need a spell more powerful than the ability to attain Immortality??? Have you seen the spells in Cormathyr or Netheril supplements? Not very nasty but VERY useful for mundane uses( and defense of keeps). _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 15:34:20 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: [MYSTARA] - We've got some attention Hello everybody, I took a tour of WotC yesterday and met with just about everyone involved in AD&D. I was told that Harold Johnson of WotC has signed onto this list so we've got their attention at least. Mystara is going through Marketing Analysis and I'm hoping to hear a follow-up within the next couple of days or so. Also, I talked with Chris Perkins (Editor of Dungeon mag.) and he said that there were not enough submissions... I'm thinking that if this list would flood him with Mystaran submissions, we could get a great deal of Dungeon's readers interested in Mystara. Also, since we won't be competing against the volume of submissions for Dragon, more of them would probably be accepted. I've never read Dungeon, but I picked up a copy to check out the articles and such with the idea of submitting something. Thoughts ? Ideas ? Comments ? Later. Jesse. vanquer@softhome.net ICQ. 8004143 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #461 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, July 1 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 462 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - We've got some attention Re: [MYSTARA] - The Grand Council of Alphatia - long Re: [MYSTARA] - Cannibals Re: [MYSTARA] - Ochalea, Thyatis, and orcs... Re: [MYSTARA] - We've got some attention Re: [MYSTARA] - Doriath Re: [MYSTARA] - The Grand Council of Alphatia - long Re: [MYSTARA] - Who took over whose mind? (was: Who took over Ha Re: [MYSTARA] - We've got some attention Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! Re: [MYSTARA] - We've got some attention [MYSTARA] - Question Re: [MYSTARA] - Cannibals Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal spells (was: Terari meets Elminster) Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal spells (was: Terari meets Elminster) Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! Re: [MYSTARA] - Cannibals Re: [MYSTARA] - The Grand Council of Alphatia - long Re: [MYSTARA] - Who took over whose mind? (was: Who took over Havard's mind #1) Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! Re: [MYSTARA] - Question Re: [MYSTARA] - The Grand Council of Alphatia - long Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! Re: [MYSTARA] - Doriath Re: [MYSTARA] - BGPD Re: [MYSTARA] - Who took over whose mind? (was: Who took over Ha ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 19:47:40 -0500 From: "Timothy R. Haney" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - We've got some attention Jesse LaBranche wrote: > > I took a tour of WotC yesterday and met with just about everyone > involved in AD&D. I was told that Harold Johnson of WotC has signed onto > this list so we've got their attention at least. > Mystara is going through Marketing Analysis and I'm hoping to hear a > follow-up within the next couple of days or so. Also, I talked with Chris > Perkins (Editor of Dungeon mag.) and he said that there were not enough > submissions... This is good to hear. I'm glad to know Mystara is at least being looked into instead of do they remember it or not. - -- This has been a Galwylin® Production The Tome of Galwylin (http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/) galwylin@airnet.net | ICQ #6755972 | AIM: Galwylin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 20:55:47 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Grand Council of Alphatia - long In a message dated 98-06-30 16:49:59 EDT, JamugaKhan@aol.com writes: > No, this was the official material for visitors of the Grand Council, > but it has costed me a dozen men and hundred horses to > smuggle it out of the Empire. :-) I very much enjoyed reading that work, but I am disappointed at the strategy you used to get it. As useful as horses are on the steppes, they are far less useful at sea and in a city such as Sundsvall. Next time you want to get information out of the Alphatians, send a single Hakomon on foot and you will get better results at far less cost. ;) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 20:56:00 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Cannibals In a message dated 98-06-30 11:28:56 EDT, DuncanTKD@aol.com writes: > Hmmmmm...... I wonder if there are any madly, crazed mages on Mystara that > believe that intelligent plants should rule the world or that are trying to > bestow ordinary plants with intellegence. But what kind of creatures could > he create? Myconids? Vegepygmies? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 20:55:59 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ochalea, Thyatis, and orcs... In a message dated 98-06-30 09:38:40 EDT, jdaly@friend.ly.net writes: > I am thinking, since much of China's identity (at least in my limited > mind) springs from competition with Japan--and what I mean by this is > two distinct warrior cultures which are in constant challenge with each > other...one huge and powerful, the other small and strong--why not make > a "Japanese" culture for Ochalea's "foil". Given the attitudes of most Chinese-Americans that I know, I would have to dispute that interpretation. While the Japanese invasion of the early-mid 20th century may have had a profound effect on current attitudes in China, the Chinese have historically seen themselves as living at the center of the world (hence the "Middle Kingdom") and paid as little attention to the "barbarians" outside their borders as possible. And this strategy does seem to have worked -- every invader of China eventually departed or was assimilated into the larger Chinese culture. Translating this idea to Mystara, it is clear that Ochalea is too small to represent China -- although Alphatia could if some of the names were changed. But the Chinese culture and people are by no means confined to China proper -- over the centuries they have colonized many islands off the coast of Asia. Perhaps Ochalea could be regarded as an overgrown Taiwan or Singapore? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 20:55:45 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - We've got some attention In a message dated 98-06-30 19:10:10 EDT, vanquer@softhome.net writes: > I've never read Dungeon, but I picked up a copy to check out the > articles and such with the idea of submitting something. > > Thoughts ? Ideas ? Comments ? Funny you should mention that -- I have passed on Dungeon magazine for the past couple of years because of its lack of Mystara submissions. It used to be a great source of adventures -- I especially liked that one that was designed to be used with the "Orcs of Thar" gazetteer in which a party of goblinoids was sent by their chief on a mission to Glantri. Even though I never played or ran it, it was hilarious reading. By all means, if anyone on this list has ideas for adventures on Mystara that can be made to fit the format and other requirements of Dungeon magazine, please submit them. I will certainly look forward to reading them -- or better yet, playing them. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 20:55:55 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Doriath In a message dated 98-06-30 10:37:58 EDT, solmyr@kolumbus.fi writes: > Another question for people with Alfheim GAZ: Does King Doriath have a wife > or children? Unknown. None are mentioned, but he is also never described as being unmarried. > What is his relation to clanmaster Brendian Erendyl? Also unknown. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 22:54:07 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Grand Council of Alphatia - long Agent Khan said: >No, this was the official material for visitors of the Grand Council, >but it has costed me a dozen men and hundred horses to >smuggle it out of the Empire. :-) > (from the shadows) True, Agent Khan, but what are twelve men and a hundred horses when the balance of Mystara is at stake? I am glad to see your mission was a resounding success - the Alphatian dogs will not know what hit them; even so, it will be too late once their order shatters. The Conspiracy will not fail. >But I'm pleased to read that at least one man is happy >with that difficult peace of work. > And why not? They, too, will see the wisdom of our way. Someday.... :-) Geoff PS - Everyone pay Jamuga's site a visit. The Conspiracy says so. He's got the latest version of his Order of the Lakes article, as well as a unique constabulary for Blackheart, plus this fine work. Keep it up, Jamuga! When can we see a Gaz for Blackheart from you? :-) - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 23:12:28 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Who took over whose mind? (was: Who took over Ha Gordon wrote: >>#2 - Geoff, who after being exposed as a Paranoid (or panasonic?) field >>agent tried the last resource: throwing Khan to the angry mob and hiding >>himself in Gordon's body; > (from the shadows) Agent 998! Is this true? No, Great Lord. Agent Khan is an incredibly resourceful field operative. His servitors can see and hear more than even Great Nyarlathotep (I can say it too), He who is the great messenger of the ultimate power, our great Lord Cthulhu (Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fthagn!!). >That's who it was! I thought I was putting on weight...you can get out of my body now! > I am afraid not, Agent Gordon. We still require your corporeal form. The Fungi from Yuggoth would also like a quick word with you. Remain where you are so they can get ahold of you. They have promised me the procedure is quite painless. :-) >But, but, but, but!!! Glantri! It's cool! Don't make me work for the >smelly Ethengarians! Noooooooo!!!!!!11 > Agent Khan: This poses a problem. Perhaps the ministrations of the Fungi will not be sufficient. Would you rather I sent a Shoggoth after him, or can you spare a few horse warriors for the task? > >Dont' believe it! The greatest trick Mystaros ever played, was >convincing the list he didn't exist! > Agent Mystaros, please prepare your Taymoran undead servitors. You will have to deal with what is left of Agent Gordon. :-) No one must know our secret. > >>#10 - Gareth, who was so upset with our talks about his ID that he chose to >>make us experience just the same thing (which reinforces the theory he's a >>chaotic lad!) > Gareth is all-powerful. Nothing is more powerful than Great Cthulhu. Therefore Gareth is Great Cthulhu. Simple. Agent Gordon - It is good that you have found this amusing. You will need your humour. The intricate, sanity-blasting tortures of the Mi-Go are far worse than reruns of "Three's Company". Far, far worse... :-) Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 05:44:20 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - We've got some attention - - >Hello everybody, > > I took a tour of WotC yesterday and met with just about everyone >involved in AD&D. I was told that Harold Johnson of WotC has signed onto >this list so we've got their attention at least. > Mystara is going through Marketing Analysis and I'm hoping to hear a >follow-up within the next couple of days or so. Also, I talked with Chris >Perkins (Editor of Dungeon mag.) and he said that there were not enough >submissions... > I'm thinking that if this list would flood him with Mystaran >submissions, we could get a great deal of Dungeon's readers interested in >Mystara. Also, since we won't be competing against the volume of submissions >for Dragon, more of them would probably be accepted. > I've never read Dungeon, but I picked up a copy to check out the >articles and such with the idea of submitting something. > >Thoughts ? Ideas ? Comments ? Brilliant. Lets all get writing! After all, its no skin off TSRs nose to print stuff we write. I'm sure everyone on this list has made at least one adventure themselves. Lets make a deal for everyone on this list to send one adventure each to Dungeon. That would provide plenty of food for thought... Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 05:56:30 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! >Have you seen the spells in Cormathyr or Netheril supplements? Not >very nasty but VERY useful for mundane uses( and defense of keeps). If you mean the Netherese spells that go upto level 12, yes I have. And I wasnt hugely impressed (I was only looking at the 10+ level spells, so if there were any gems at level 9 or less I didnt look). After playing Spelljammer a lot (and Planescape) a standard rule is that a wizard from a given campaign world can only cast spells from that world. So, for example, a Glantrian wizard would be able to cast Magic Defiance Undone and become a Dracologist where the Realms mage couldnt, while Spell Engine and Snillocs Snowball Swarm would elude the Glantrian. This is because what mages unique are their spell lists. No restrictions just led to horribly powergamed mages who took only the best spells from each campaign setting. With the result that all mages spellbooks looked pretty well the same. Of course, a mage could research his own spell to try to duplicate a spell from another campaign world, but that slows things down drastically (and means the mage has to put in a fair bit of work.) IMC I have extended this further - Herath, Glantri, Flaemish Glantrians and Alphatians all have their own unique spells and ways of casting. Otherwise, all the high level mages of Mystara (all the ones who get teleport without error and can go anywhere) would have scoured the planet for good spells (at least the adventurous mages like Prince Haldemar would have). As a further note - I reckon that all the magical colleges would jealously horde their knowledge, and do what they can to prevent foreigners from getting their hands on their spells (If magic existed in the RW this stuff would most likely be classified military knowledge. The development of new spells and magic could be considered a "magical arms race" not wholly inappropriate for nations like Glantri, Thyatis and Alphatia.). IMC the Great School of Magic places geases on students to prevent them from giving information taught at the Great School to non Glantrians. Cheerz ROB (England is out of the world cup... But we put the fear of God into the Argies :) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 22:20:27 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - We've got some attention >Brilliant. Lets all get writing! After all, its no skin off TSRs nose to >print stuff we write. >I'm sure everyone on this list has made at least one adventure themselves. >Lets make a deal for everyone on this list to send one adventure each to >Dungeon. That would provide plenty of food for thought... >Cheerz >ROB I'm in. For all those interested, you can find Dungeon's submission guidelines at WWW.TSR.COM or if you don't have internet access send e-mail to Chris Perkins dungeon@wizards.com and request an electronic copy. One thing that I should mention right up front is that they do not accept anything for D&D, but if anyone needs trouble converting things from D&D to AD&D- I'd be happy to help. Later. Jesse. vanquer@softhome.net ICQ. 8004143 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 22:27:46 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Question I'm looking for all of the information that I can get relating to the Keep on the Borderlands. I know that it is supposed to be located in the Grand Duchy of Karameikos, and I have the module, but I was looking for all the information about it (if any) that isn't in the module. Any information would be much appreciated. Later. Jesse. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 02:12:39 EDT From: DuncanTKD@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Cannibals In a message dated 98-06-30 21:08:10 EDT, you write: << Myconids? Vegepygmies? >> I was thinking more along the line of vegitables instead of fungi. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 02:56:52 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal spells (was: Terari meets Elminster) >Youve lost me here... AD+D has much stuff on spell research (books and >books, in fact). I cant remember if D+D addressed the situation at all? > IIRC the rules are (int+lvl)*2 - 3*spell lvl for official spells ( -5* spell lvl for other) if your a cleric use wis for int. It`s in Gaz3, DotE, and cyclo IIRC <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 03:00:22 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal spells (was: Terari meets Elminster) >I liked the 70TP rules simply because it made magical life easier. IIRC it`s 100TP to get ALL spells. 50 for mage, 25 for cleric, and 25 for druid. How come everyone seems to be going for 70? Is there something I should know? <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 03:18:54 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! >P.S. Did my mail of Cannibalism came thru a couple of days ago? > Maybe you should make sure that your not blocking mail from yourself as you`ll never Know otherwise <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 03:27:02 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Cannibals >Hmmmmm...... I wonder if there are any madly, crazed mages on Mystara that >believe that intelligent plants should rule the world or that are trying to >bestow ordinary plants with intellegence. But what kind of creatures could he >create? > Well IMC yes, but I reserve the right not to go into details until my players have encountered it. IIRC wasn`t there a thing about monstermaking transmuters in a Dragon issue? <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 05:23:40 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Grand Council of Alphatia - long >The Grand Council of Alphatia > Haven`t had time to read it properly yet, or the other two posts, but have put it in my `Useful Mystara` folder for further scrutiny. Mind you there`s STILL stuff in there from three weeks ago that I haven`t been able to find time to read properly yet. Oh the joys of the ancient chinese curse `May you live in interesting times` <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 05:28:05 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Who took over whose mind? (was: Who took over Havard's mind #1) > While I have been mistaken for a Goth a couple of times, I am >really not all that depressed. Actually, I am a fairly happy guy. >Perhaps you meant "depraived", which I would have a much >harder time denying... > I thought, then again it`s me so probably not, that it was a `DERANGED` mind, but now I come to think about it yours IS better. Looks like you haven`t let go control of my braincell yet <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 05:36:26 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! >I knew there was a reason I was underwhelmed by the Realms..... > You mean the fact that no matter how good you become even if a (shocked gasp) munchkin, that the local NPC is so much better? At least in Mystara there IS the chance to become one of the movers and shakers even whilst mortal. Then there`s the Immortality jag, where you can actually do less to Mystara if you play by the rules. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 05:39:17 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! >Munchkin? Nonono.. Greenwood is a Mega-Munchkin. Sorry to contradict you old boy but you should have said `Greenwood is THE Mega-Munchkin. <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 08:42:30 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Question Not really much that isn't there. Gaz1 mentions the possibility of setting it in the extreme northeast corner of the duchy (Castellan Keep) and removing the town that is mentioned in the module. Only the spartan military base would be present... What I did, was I had the "town" be a set of shops present to cater to the military. They were funded partially by the state and partially by the military who would spend there. And of course the occassional adventurer... Since the adventurers never really asked what the shops were doing in the middle of a wilderness...the point was moot. But in addition I will point out the number of rubies found in the module...which I used in my campaign to signify (especially the ones in evil cleric's possession) devotion to Arik. Thus creating a relationship between B2 and B3 Jesse LaBranche wrote: > I'm looking for all of the information that I can get relating to the > Keep on the Borderlands. I know that it is supposed to be located in the > Grand Duchy of Karameikos, and I have the module, but I was looking for all > the information about it (if any) that isn't in the module. > > Any information would be much appreciated. > > Later. > > Jesse. > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 05:47:15 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Grand Council of Alphatia - long >but it has costed me a dozen men and hundred horses to >smuggle it out of the Empire. :-) > Don`t tell me they forgot Alphatia was a Floating continent and plunged overboard(hope the timeline supports this!). Are you trying to put us all back to sleep abot the threat of the Ethengars? well it will NOT work! We know who they are, we know where they live. Some of us even know a rock throwing Immortal who might try to get away with it one more time. P.S. How come he`s still at large? Alphaks I mean. surely some heirarch MUST have slapped his thighs by now? <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 16:06:18 +0200 (EET DST) From: Anias Pasi Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! > >I knew there was a reason I was underwhelmed by the Realms..... > You mean the fact that no matter how good you become even if a (shocked > gasp) munchkin, that the local NPC is so much better? At least in > Mystara there IS the chance to become one of the movers and shakers even > whilst mortal. Then there`s the Immortality jag, where you can actually > do less to Mystara if you play by the rules. I agree. One of the things that makes Mystara different from many other setting is that in Mystara the PC:s are ment to become the great ones. I don't say that it's a bad thing, that in many settings the characters are ment to stay in some level of success, but it is a nice thing to know, that if You fight hard enough, You will one day became as good as the next NPC. In Realms there is allways someone _better_than You. If not anyone else then Khelben Blackstaff, whose a good mage, and listed to be, if I remember correctly at least at level 21, but allways at least 5 levels higher than any of the PC:s. :) As I'm not too much of a canon-true person myself, it's not really a problem to myself what it says in the books, but it does make the atmosphere. Even if I want to play with low-level characters (My favourite is levels 2-15) I like it that the characters will matter in the world. If a group has killed the Huge Troll that terrorized the country-village, they should be able to stand to their reputation (statisticly). Of cource, where realms have Elminster, Khelben, Simbul and other well known superheroes, we do have the 1000 unknown 36th level mages in Alphatia, plus their students and succsessors (Canon-wise:) Pasi - -- X Pasi Anias X p.03 - 2533536 X \\|// X X Sammonkatu 28 A 18 X a122286@proffa X (o o) X X 33540 Tampere X .cc.tut.fi X o000--(_)--000o X *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 17:17:56 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Doriath At 15.33 30/06/98 +0300, you wrote: >Hello, >Another question for people with Alfheim GAZ: Does King Doriath have a wife >or children? What is his relation to clanmaster Brendian Erendyl? No wife nor children: he's a free man! And he has no sentimental ties to old Brendian (IIRC she's about two centuries older than him).. But things can change in the following years for Doriath... ;p DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 18:33:50 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - BGPD At 16.37 30/06/98 EDT, Khan wrote: >The Blackheart Golem Police Department >Constructs are strong, but not greedy, and they know how to follow orders. >All over Shraek spreaded are twelve police stations and one headquarter from >which the constructs handle the daily business. Enwan G. Oshakotak is normally >in his tower in the Ugly Woods and continues his various projects. On the >streets of Shraek are patrols of normally two golems and one statue, which can >be reinforced by a good amount reserves in the stations. Under these reserves, >the special enforcing commands (SEC), are some groups which consist of statues >lead by magen (for the tasks which require more intelligence than strength). Now, my only question is this: since we all know that contructs are obtuse and only follow one command at a time, how can they handle all the different order problems that come to happen inside Shraek? I mean, are they always on patrol with the order: "Stop any turmoil you see in any way" or remain at the HQ until needed? And in this case, who "activates" them? I don't remember the magens being so "intelligent", but I might be mistaking... Am I? Overall, good work Khan! i also like the other articles (OLE i already knew, the Alphatian govt detailed was an incredible feat to accomplish! My compliments: it really looks like Italy, with all those parties and personalities...) :) DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 14:16:30 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Who took over whose mind? (was: Who took over Ha << >>#2 - Geoff, who after being exposed as a Paranoid (or panasonic?) field >>agent tried the last resource: throwing Khan to the angry mob and hiding >>himself in Gordon's body; > (from the shadows) Agent 998! Is this true? No, Great Lord. Agent Khan is an incredibly resourceful field operative. His servitors can see and hear more than even Great Nyarlathotep (I can say it too), He who is the great messenger of the ultimate power, our great Lord Cthulhu (Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fthagn!!). >> I have to confirm that! It was all a trick to make our enemies becoming careless. Right now my invincible hordes are mustering all those stupid guys. << >That's who it was! I thought I was putting on weight...you can get out of my body now! > I am afraid not, Agent Gordon. We still require your corporeal form. The Fungi from Yuggoth would also like a quick word with you. Remain where you are so they can get ahold of you. They have promised me the procedure is quite painless. :-) >> Hm, it seems that I will have to torture some akans as they have forgotten this Gordon... << >But, but, but, but!!! Glantri! It's cool! Don't make me work for the >smelly Ethengarians! Noooooooo!!!!!!11 > Agent Khan: This poses a problem. Perhaps the ministrations of the Fungi will not be sufficient. Would you rather I sent a Shoggoth after him, or can you spare a few horse warriors for the task?>> Agent 998, you're always getting nervous so incredibly fast. It will require only one light warhorse to get Gordon in row. I will handle that. Don't worry! << Agent Mystaros, please prepare your Taymoran undead servitors. You will have to deal with what is left of Agent Gordon. :-) No one must know our secret. >> Agent 998, you are trapped by Mystaros latest trick: He really doesn't exist... << Gareth is all-powerful. Nothing is more powerful than Great Cthulhu. Therefore Gareth is Great Cthulhu. Simple. >> Great Lord, I fear the mind of Agent 998 has been damaged in the last battle. I opt for a instant termination! << Agent Gordon - It is good that you have found this amusing. You will need your humour. The intricate, sanity-blasting tortures of the Mi-Go are far worse than reruns of "Three's Company". Far, far worse... :-) >> And far, far more funny. :-D Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #462 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, July 1 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 463 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Grand Council of Alphatia - long Re: [MYSTARA] - The Grand Council of Alphatia - long Re: [MYSTARA] - The Grand Council of Alphatia - long [MYSTARA] - [Fwd: Petition to revive Mystara] [MYSTARA] - Peter Adkinson Re: [MYSTARA] - BGPD Re: [MYSTARA] - [Fwd: Petition to revive Mystara] Re: [MYSTARA] - Doriath Re: [MYSTARA] - Peter Adkinson Re: [MYSTARA] - We've got some attention Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! Re: [MYSTARA] - Who took over whose mind? (was: Who took over Ha Re: [MYSTARA] - The Grand Council of Alphatia - long [MYSTARA] - Olde Tavern Tales ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 14:16:28 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Grand Council of Alphatia - long << Don`t tell me they forgot Alphatia was a Floating continent and plunged overboard(hope the timeline supports this!). Are you trying to put us all back to sleep abot the threat of the Ethengars? well it will NOT work! We know who they are, we know where they live. Some of us even know a rock throwing Immortal who might try to get away with it one more time. P.S. How come he`s still at large? Alphaks I mean. surely some heirarch MUST have slapped his thighs by now? <;-P >> Bah! Always those nit-pickers! Hadn't we agreed to allow more freedom of literature? But alright: I've lost the men and horses passing this big gate at the northpol. Then they made it through half Iciria into Alphatia Neatharum, where they managed to get a book from the nighstand of one of those stupid mages. I don't think that the losses was to high then. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 14:16:27 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Grand Council of Alphatia - long << (from the shadows) True, Agent Khan, but what are twelve men and a hundred horses when the balance of Mystara is at stake? I am glad to see your mission was a resounding success - the Alphatian dogs will not know what hit them; even so, it will be too late once their order shatters. The Conspiracy will not fail. >> Correct! << And why not? They, too, will see the wisdom of our way. Someday.... >> Correct indeed! Your wisdom astonishes me as usual, agent 998. << PS - Everyone pay Jamuga's site a visit. The Conspiracy says so. He's got the latest version of his Order of the Lakes article, as well as a unique constabulary for Blackheart, plus this fine work. Keep it up, Jamuga! When can we see a Gaz for Blackheart from you? :-) >> Thanks to the PR manager of the Mighty Khan. :-) Hm, I thought that such a Gaz already exists. Wasn't it's name not "The Necronomicon"? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 14:16:24 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Grand Council of Alphatia - long << I very much enjoyed reading that work, but I am disappointed at the strategy you used to get it. As useful as horses are on the steppes, they are far less useful at sea and in a city such as Sundsvall. Next time you want to get information out of the Alphatians, send a single Hakomon on foot and you will get better results at far less cost. ;) >> True, but the first ten hakomons have not returned and the wages of the other hakomons were rising tremendously. So I gad to switch to a more common strategy. If you ask me, I would say, that these hakomons are still alive and very happy to live in a realm now which appraises spellcaster so high. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 14:51:31 -0400 From: Daly Subject: [MYSTARA] - [Fwd: Petition to revive Mystara] The following is more of the conversation between myself and Mr. Adkinson. Note his request for opinions on a given matter and PLEASE reply to me personally. Write to the list as well, as I think some good discussion can come from this. But I will take all personal replies and thread them together for him and send them as a whole. There is one more letter following this one. Peter Adkison wrote: > At 12:41 PM 7/1/98 -0400, you wrote: > >I understand, and this certainly does make sense. I do not want you to sink > >money into a revival of Mystara and have it hurt gaming as a whole. > Therefore I > >would suggest, and encourage, support of the campaign in whatever small > ways you > >can. > > Thanks for your understanding. > > >For instance, there is no reason why a supplement or two can't be produced > for > >Mystara, which would describe some interesting nation or system, with a page > >detailing suggestions for conversion to other settings. > > Unfortunately conversion notes don't seem to do much to help sales. In > spite of the conversion notes this product would probably not sell > significantly more than a product without conversion notes. The problem is > that the typical customer sees the logo "Mystara" on the front and moves on > to something else without reading further. > > It might be possible to do something like what you suggest later on down > the road, but for right now we cannot do a single "charity project." Every > product we do has to be a hit. The business is too marginal to do > otherwise. Hopefully the great TSR revival will grow to the point where we > can do more. > > >I do understand why you don't wish to, at this time (wink, wink), do a full > >revival. But I think by doing some more "generic" products with a > relationship > >to Mystara, you stand to gain the support of the "largely feeling neglected" > >Mystara crowd. > > I'm dissappointed that these folk feel neglected. I'm delighted that they > love Mystara, but really, I believe that much of the material we produce > could be used in Mystara with some tweaking, particularly the generic AD&D > stuff. > > One of the ideas we've toyed with is producing generic adventures with > conversion notes for use in various worlds. This is sorta like your idea > but in reverse. What if we published an adventure, or a source book on, > say, a knight order or something, and there were a couple pages in the back > on how to tweak it for Mystara, Ravenloft, Dragonlance, Greyhawk, etc.? > Anyway, it's an idea we're thinking about; I'd be curious what the Mystara > fans would think > > Btw, feel free to pass these posts along to the Mystara list and summarize > the results back to me. I'm curious what people would think. I don't have > time to subscribe to all these lists, but I would enjoy having some > interaction through a mediator who's willing to take the time to sort the > business stuff from the other stuff and summarize it for me. > > >By the way, how is the Greyhawk revival going? I have been praying for its > >success and buy the products religiously in the hopes that success might > bring > >us closer to reviving Mystara... > > Too early to tell. > > >I am also working on various articles and dungeons for the TSR magazines > which I > >hope will renew interest... > > Great! I believe that we will continue to try and support all the worlds > through at least the occassional adventure in Dungeon magazine. > > Stay on target, > Peter D. Adkison > CEO, Wizards of the Coast *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 14:51:43 -0400 From: Daly Subject: [MYSTARA] - Peter Adkinson My repl Peter Adkison wrote: > At 12:41 PM 7/1/98 -0400, you wrote: > > It might be possible to do something like what you suggest later on > down > the road, but for right now we cannot do a single "charity project." > Every > product we do has to be a hit. The business is too marginal to do > otherwise. Hopefully the great TSR revival will grow to the point > where we > can do more. Believe it or not, I take great optimism from your statements. Instead of saying, "Oh no, they don't like Mystara!", I say "Yes! All we have to do is get TSR up and running and bring in new players, etc, and Mystara will be the next step!" I think one of the biggest challenges you face, is how to bring in NEW players. I recall advertisements when I was a kid that drew me to D&D. I am not sure if such things would be resurrected or not...given certain groups and their rather vocal negative opinions regarding our hobby... But if it is a help at all, the ad I most remember (in a Boy's Life mag, unless I am totally off my rocker) was one which had a kid standing prominent and to the left. He had some books tucked under his arm and a fairly defiant expression. A group was in the background playing some boardgame. A caption read, "They can have their Monopoly, I have Dungeons and Dragons". Being somewhat of a loner, this ad really clicked with me. The main point here is the lack of advertisement...the lack of a vehicle to bring in new players, short of word of mouth. Word of mouth is fine when you assume that every DM is out there recruiting new players. But the truth is, that most people who play, have their groups and don't actively recruit. I am not sure what the solution is...but I have been giving alot of thoughts to conventions and their "closed" feel. Mostly it is SF/F fans who go to these things. It has a certain "country club" kind of feel to it... I think it would be of great benefit to somehow bring conventions more to the mainstream. But I don't know how exactly this would be accomplished. Maybe the idea is rather to bring more gamers to it. So that it keeps a certain "privileged" atmosphere, but more people might be attracted and desire to belong... I don't know, am I way off track? Am I on target? Any of this helpful? > > > >I do understand why you don't wish to, at this time (wink, wink), do > a full > >revival. But I think by doing some more "generic" products with a > relationship > >to Mystara, you stand to gain the support of the "largely feeling > neglected" > >Mystara crowd. > > I'm dissappointed that these folk feel neglected. I'm delighted that > they > love Mystara, but really, I believe that much of the material we > produce > could be used in Mystara with some tweaking, particularly the generic > AD&D > stuff. I hope you are not TOO disappointed. It is human nature to take things personally and there are those who take Mystara's dormant state personally. > One of the ideas we've toyed with is producing generic adventures with > > conversion notes for use in various worlds. This is sorta like your > idea > but in reverse. What if we published an adventure, or a source book > on, > say, a knight order or something, and there were a couple pages in the > back > on how to tweak it for Mystara, Ravenloft, Dragonlance, Greyhawk, > etc.? > Anyway, it's an idea we're thinking about; I'd be curious what the > Mystara > fans would think Do you mean like was done for "College of Magic"? I really liked that accessory. I have mentioned it a couple of times on the list. It is a good one. But I would strongly suggest that if certain projects get off the ground (Egg of Coot in particular), that relate strongly to Mystara, that somehow you give a certain indication of this... In other words, perhaps for the Egg of Coot there might be 3 major sections which describe how it would fit into the original Blackmoor, Greyhawk Blackmoor, and Mystara Blackmoor. Perhaps giving prominence to Mystara in this way might be a good diplomatic move. Just a thought. > > > Btw, feel free to pass these posts along to the Mystara list and > summarize > the results back to me. I'm curious what people would think. I don't > have > time to subscribe to all these lists, but I would enjoy having some > interaction through a mediator who's willing to take the time to sort > the > business stuff from the other stuff and summarize it for me. Thank you. I take great honor in this and will do just that! I hope you keep an eye on that site too! It gives some specific thoughts regarding Mystara, from various fans. It might be a useful marketing tool... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 14:52:09 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - BGPD << Now, my only question is this: since we all know that contructs are obtuse and only follow one command at a time, how can they handle all the different order problems that come to happen inside Shraek? I mean, are they always on patrol with the order: "Stop any turmoil you see in any way" or remain at the HQ until needed? And in this case, who "activates" them? I don't remember the magens being so "intelligent", but I might be mistaking... Am I? >> And why do you need 4 (!) question marks for a single question? :-) O.k., let's see: Average intelligence: Golem 4 Gargoyle 5 Living Statue 7 Magen 9 Not yet mentioned are Drolem 3 Iron Gargoyle 5 Guardian Warrior 4 Guardian Horse 2 Juggernaut 3 Mek 12 Winged Warrior 3 Considering that normal humans have a intelligence of 9-11 magen and statues should be able to think and speak. But be warned: If you should desire to argue against it, I will add a note to my article that these constructs have the necessary abilities even other do not. At least we're talking about Alphatia. No insult intended, only to short down this discussion... << Overall, good work Khan! i also like the other articles (OLE i already knew, the Alphatian govt detailed was an incredible feat to accomplish! My compliments: it really looks like Italy, with all those parties and personalities...) :) DM >> I doubt that Kohl, Waigel and Kinkel are much better. :-/ Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 15:41:24 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Fwd: Petition to revive Mystara] In a message dated 98-07-01 15:06:32 EDT, you write: << > One of the ideas we've toyed with is producing generic adventures with > conversion notes for use in various worlds. This is sorta like your idea > but in reverse. What if we published an adventure, or a source book on, > say, a knight order or something, and there were a couple pages in the back > on how to tweak it for Mystara, Ravenloft, Dragonlance, Greyhawk, etc.? > Anyway, it's an idea we're thinking about; I'd be curious what the Mystara > fans would think >> hmm.....if mystara is so forgotten and overlooked then the generic products could use mystaran names. ex- an adventure set in a karameikan style setting could use karameikan npcs. those not acquainted with mystara would not recognize the names. those adapting the generic adventure to their own setting of choice would swap names anyway. and we the people of mystara would be in bliss as we see our favorite folk immortalized in text again. the generic approach is okay. i get the feeling tsr/wotc is going that rout anyway. i think all of us that buy dragon and dungeon mags think of how to fit adventures and articles into the mystaran setting. alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 21:22:26 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Doriath - --- >>Another question for people with Alfheim GAZ: Does King Doriath have a wife >>or children? What is his relation to clanmaster Brendian Erendyl? > >No wife nor children: he's a free man! And he has no sentimental ties to >old Brendian (IIRC she's about two centuries older than him).. But things >can change in the following years for Doriath... ;p All elves are free men/women. After reading the Alfheim gaz, elves dont actually have the institution of marriage (the Complete Book of Elves is actually completely different from Alfheim, so watch out!). The Complete Book of Elves makes 600 year long marriages feasible buy "the elven bond", where husband and wife are emotionally bonded to each other in a near telepathic link. Like love, but more so. Alfheim elves dont have this. In fact, it says that Alfheim elves are very, very "casual". A couple might get together for a couple of years, and then go their own separate ways without another thought. Apparently long term relationships are exceptionally rare. Any kids are looked after by the Clan as a whole (because there are so few elven babies this is possible - the entire Clan dotes on the half dozen or so of them!), which is responsible for the way elves arent tied to the family (like humans) but to the Clan. Elven society is completely different and alien, in a way, from human society. Which is cool. Elves are elves, not just humans with pointy ears! (I wasnt a huge fan of the Complete Elf background material actually. OK, it was very Tolkien, but elves living in cities??? Unthinkable!) So, back to Doriath, hes not married, and is never likely to be. If he ever is I doubt it will be binding for very long. As to kids, he may have kids, but it doesnt matter. They will be looked after by Clan Erendyl, quite happily. And the kingship of Alfheim isnt even hereditary, if I remember - some poor elf has to volunteer for that onerous role... (all the Alfheim king is is an ambassador to the other races, because they expect the elves to have a king! In reality, elven society is more like a "Republic", with lots of semi autonomous clans. And no single ruling figure. Elves are just too chaotic to have one!) Alfheim society is cool. Sounds like heaven on earth! The elves believe in the "tax is theft" principle like me :) Cheerz ROB (BTW - a complete aside. The KW has their sporting events (the Aquas Dolphins? sound like american football to me...). How about a Savage Coast "World Cup"!. Bellayne could play Vilaverde and lose thanks to a Eusdrian referee... :) I'm still smarting. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 21:09:51 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Peter Adkinson - --- >Believe it or not, I take great optimism from your statements. Instead >of saying, "Oh no, they don't like Mystara!", I say "Yes! All we have >to do is get TSR up and running and bring in new players, etc, and >Mystara will be the next step!" I always had the impression that the guys at TSR really did want to bring Mystara back. For a dead world, so different from AD+D (and hard to integrate into the AD+D multiverse, which is what I think must happen really) theres a lot of oblique referrances to it. That Ravenloft domain (Ive read it, it is cool!), the boss of the Harmonium wearing red steel armour, the odd Mystara article in Dragon (thanks to Bruce Heard - the idea of calling rakasta moggies just cracked everyone up around here). It wasnt through lack of trying on TSRs part. Misguided trying, perhaps, but not lack. >I think one of the biggest challenges you face, is how to bring in NEW >players. I recall advertisements when I was a kid that drew me to D&D. >I am not sure if such things would be resurrected or not...given certain >groups and their rather vocal negative opinions regarding our hobby... Thats life. But I wouldnt be surprised if the RPG market is pretty well at saturation by now. Everyone has at least heard of RPGs - it doesnt appeal to everyone (in fact I think it appeals to minority). To recruit new players - bring back the cartoon! All you have to do is put on the reruns, and stick a TV ad for TSR right after it. That'll most likely bring in some younger players - which is whats wanted. (Of course, that cartoon is somewhat dated now. So make another one! - and maybe set it on a campaign world even) >But if it is a help at all, the ad I most remember (in a Boy's Life mag, >unless I am totally off my rocker) was one which had a kid standing >prominent and to the left. He had some books tucked under his arm and a >fairly defiant expression. A group was in the background playing some >boardgame. A caption read, "They can have their Monopoly, I have >Dungeons and Dragons". > >Being somewhat of a loner, this ad really clicked with me. My first ad was found on the back of a Marvel comic (Transformers, I think?). It was just a picture of the D+D Basic box, with a bit of blurb. I think of the software house that made Wing Commander 4, and their slogan "We Create Worlds". Pity its almost certainly copyrighted, because that would be appropriate for TSR as well. And speaking of computer games, thats a huge media for advertising. OK, there are some TSR games on the market, but lets face it, they arent exactly the top of the computer game lead. Perhaps if TSR could get a good software company on their side, they could put together a storming game (you know, a big WC4 esque epic with film actors and that sort of thing). And that game would not only just make cash from its sales, but net potential players. (I make it sound so easy, dont I? I bet these things are talked about in TSR boardrooms constantly.) >The main point here is the lack of advertisement...the lack of a vehicle >to bring in new players, short of word of mouth. Word of mouth is fine >when you assume that every DM is out there recruiting new players. But >the truth is, that most people who play, have their groups and don't >actively recruit. see above... >I am not sure what the solution is...but I have been giving alot of >thoughts to conventions and their "closed" feel. Mostly it is SF/F fans >who go to these things. It has a certain "country club" kind of feel to >it... Games Workshop havnt had a problem marketing their Warhammer products in England (do you have Warhammer in the US?). They have shops all over the place, where the staff hold public games just about every open hour, and the local kids seem to practically live there. As an aside - TSR has a rather bad rep here (and I dont mean T$R either). All these games like Vampire:the Masquerade from White Wolf, and Shadowrun, and that sort of thing, have netted all the older gamers. Playing AD+D makes you a "baby". (Funny, considering thats what all you D+D fans thought AD+D was doing to you!). And its true, TSR stuff does seem to have a more comic booky, loose feel than the more "serious" games. Personally, I like it, but perhaps TSR could do with some sort of new release aimed specifically at these people who play stuff with names like "Minds Eye Theatre". (pretentious without being ostentatious :). I imagine that would be very difficult nigh on impossible for TSR to do - "just whip up a quick new game..." Life is hard. I'm glad I dont work at TSR in that competitive RPG market. >I think it would be of great benefit to somehow bring conventions more >to the mainstream. But I don't know how exactly this would be >accomplished. Check out those Warhammer conventions. I have never seen such a large room so packed. Probably so packed because of stuff like the guys dressed up as Space Marines wandering around, lots of cool miniatures to keep minds occupied, and the latest Games Workshop inspired computer games being playtested for free. >> One of the ideas we've toyed with is producing generic adventures with >> >> conversion notes for use in various worlds. This is sorta like your >> idea That rules. Birthright gained a few fans over here solely due to its tiny mention in the back of the Chronomancer supplement! Cheap, as well. >But I would strongly suggest that if certain projects get off the ground >(Egg of Coot in particular), that relate strongly to Mystara, that >somehow you give a certain indication of this... If other campaign worlds start ripping off the juiciest parts of Mystara, then Mystara is truly dead... It should be reinforced where the stuff originated from, and backed up with further Mystara goodies. That Mystara box would be an absolute must. A generic box set for the planet. That way the guy who has just bought the latest Odyssey box, or whatever, can look in it and say Mystara eh? hmmm. Check out the shop, hunt for the Big Box of Mystara, and buy it. And if its worthy, you have a convert. Incidentally, speaking of converts - how about theres a bit of info on unofficial websites to do with worlds (God only knows how copyright and/or TSR would use this). Mystara has many, many websites devoted to it. And I think these websites are a great way to learn about the world "interactively" (a major buzz word in the business where I work :). I know that they are all unofficial, but we still exist, and we could still net gamers, which is good for TSR! A mention on the back of a few boxes, anything. (especially in computer games, perhaps a link to websites like there is on so many LucasArts games - to the Mystara Webring sort of stuff. If thats sitting there on your start menu after a while you ARE going to look at it, arent you!) And I think in many cases the work of devoted fans (thats us, i think :) would attract more than corporate web sites, like tsr.com. I love AD+D, but the TSR home page just doesnt really click with me... Well, there is masses of off the top of my head rambling here. Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 20:15:17 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - We've got some attention > I'm in. For all those interested, you can find Dungeon's submission >guidelines at WWW.TSR.COM or if you don't have internet access send e-mail >to Chris Perkins dungeon@wizards.com and request an electronic copy. > One thing that I should mention right up front is that they do not >accept anything for D&D, but if anyone needs trouble converting things from >D&D to AD&D- I'd be happy to help. Ahh. All my stuff is very much AD+D. Psionics and such. Has anyone ever seen the film "the 39 steps"? I ran a worthy adventure based on that in Bellayne. (I wonder if TSR would object to Big Ben making an appearance in Leminster?) Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 20:42:46 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! >>I knew there was a reason I was underwhelmed by the Realms..... >> >You mean the fact that no matter how good you become even if a (shocked >gasp) munchkin, that the local NPC is so much better? At least in >Mystara there IS the chance to become one of the movers and shakers even >whilst mortal. Then there`s the Immortality jag, where you can actually >do less to Mystara if you play by the rules. I'm 110% in agreeance with you, paul... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 14:21:55 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Who took over whose mind? (was: Who took over Ha At 09.34 30/06/98 +0000, Gordon McCormick wrote: > >Umn, while Brizio appears, I hope none of the Itilian sounding people >mind me stealing your names for my game...the PC's were in Darokin, I >needed a name or two that sounded italian and er, umn, sorry that >you're a bad guy now :) Mmmh... you've discovered my true identity, the RW Brizio is just a cover for the Darokin villain. BTW: nice this world of yours, I got here while tracking down a certain Elminster across the Planes... but this is a long story :-) If you need more Italian sounding names, here it is a list with the English equivalent: Male: Andrea (Andrew), Alessandro (Alex), Carlo (Carl), Daniele (Daniel), Davide (David), Enrico (Henry), Franco (Frank), Francesco (Francis), Giovanni (John), Giacomo (James), Giuseppe (Joseph), Marco (Marc), Matteo (Matthew), Massimo (Max), Michele (Micheal), Nicola (Nick), Paolo (Paul), Riccardo (Richard), Roberto (Robert), Stefano (Steven). Most of them can become female names, just changing the final "o" with a "a". Other female names: Anna (Ann), Alessia (Alexia?), Barbara, Chiara (Claire), Elena (Helen), Elisa (Liza?), Francesca (Frances), Isabella (Isabel), Laura, Patrizia, Susanna (Susy?), Sara, Stefania, Silvia. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 21:58:46 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Grand Council of Alphatia - long At 22.54 30/06/98 -0400, Geoff Gander wrote: >PS - Everyone pay Jamuga's site a visit. The Conspiracy says so. >He's got the latest version of his Order of the Lakes article, as well as >a unique constabulary for Blackheart, plus this fine work. Keep it up, >Jamuga! When can we see a Gaz for Blackheart from you? :-) Jamuga, when you'll write that Gaz don't forget about the Shraek Beholders, the infamous Hardball team from Blackheart. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 21:10:38 -0500 From: Wood Frog Subject: [MYSTARA] - Olde Tavern Tales "Dragon ... what Dragon?" Perimus the Dim, deceased. You wanted it, now you've got it! Olde Tavern Tales is site with real content for the avid gamer. Everything that you could want, including a contest with the chance to win FREE AD&D material. Stop by, and be prepared to be floored! http://www.quadrunner.com/~tavern Nathan Caroland woodfrog@skypoint.com http://www.quadrunner.com/~tavern AOL IM: Woodfrog1 ICQ #: 11752766 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #463 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Thursday, July 2 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 464 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Peter Adkison Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about B2 Re: [MYSTARA] - [Fwd: Petition to revive Mystara] Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! [MYSTARA] - Dimensions (was Peter Adkinson) Re: [MYSTARA] - The Grand Council of Alphatia - long Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! Re: [MYSTARA] - [Fwd: Petition to revive Mystara] Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! Re: [MYSTARA] - The Grand Council of Alphatia - long Re: [MYSTARA] - The Grand Council of Alphatia - long [MYSTARA] - Gareth 7 : Gareth = an Immortal returned from the Vortex Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! [MYSTARA] - Old Ones Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 22:54:14 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Peter Adkison Jeff Daly -- >> The following is more of the conversation between myself and Mr. Adkinson.<< Good job. What I read of your conversation just reinforces what I was thinking. Getting new game supplements or novels for Mystara in the immediate won't happen. Today's attention is on Greyhawk (do pray that it succeeds), and a rather shaky role-playing market. I'm still pitching the idea of a post 3rd Edition Mystara release (Y2K or later). On the other hand, this seems like a good opportunity to keep plugging requests for direct support from RPGA, official Mystara convention events, and opening up the two magazines to more Mystara material (including setting development). I'm doing my part contacting the powers that be at TSR and Wizards for the above. Those of you who feel like it, please come and visit the Mystara Message Board on the TSR site. Can't hurt. I'll let you know when I have something concrete. Until then, just keep trying, folks! Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 23:07:29 -0400 From: "DJ Sahlas" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about B2 Jesse wrote, > I'm looking for all of the information that I can get relating to the >Keep on the Borderlands. I know that it is supposed to be located in the >Grand Duchy of Karameikos, and I have the module, but I was looking for all >the information about it (if any) that isn't in the module. > >Any information would be much appreciated. To my knowledge, the only published information about the Keep on the Borderlands, apart from the 2 versions of the module, is in the amalgamation B1-9 "In Search of Adventure" (which doesn't really add anything new) and in GAZ1 - The Grand Duchy of Karameikos. The gazetteer suggests some changes to the module and is set around 1000 AC. In my own campaign(s), the PCs who adventured in B2 later fought in the War of the Desert Nomads X4/X5/X10. Since that war was pushed down to AC 1200 in the Karameikos gazetteer, I reasoned that both the description in B2 and GAZ1 were accurate - one describing the Keep around AC 1000, and the module describing the Keep around AC 1200. That way the appearance of the town within the walls made sense - it was 200 years in the future. In a later campaign based around GAZ3 - The Principalities of Glantri, this one set in AC 1000, a new group of PCs visited Karameikos and the Keep when they were "Companion" level adventurers. I had always enjoyed running the Caves of Chaos, and I experimented with a possible origin of the caves (200 years before the actual setting described in the module). For this higher level group of PCs, I envisioned a more powerful force of evil responsible for the original excavations. The Caves of Chaos had been covertly established by none other than Thar of the Broken Lands. At the time, he had picked some of his lieutenants to travel to Northern Karameikos and gather together the disparate tribes of humanoids in the mountains into a dangerous army. He had assistance in this endeavor through the Church of Evil Chaos, who had already established their Shrine there, and through dark clerical magic were able to help control the aggressive bands of different humanoids. (Naturally, this all had links to Arik of the Hundred Eyes, but that's another story). The party had been divided, and they were in the area for a totally different reason when each of the groups began to come across evidence of movements of large numbers of humanoids. One of the PCs was a paladin of the Claymore, and he managed to evade the bands of high-level orcs and mountaineer his way to the isolated Keep on the Borderlands (growing up in the hills of Klantyre had some advantages). There he met the Castellan, who provided the final pieces of information regarding both the party's individual quest, and the gathering of Chaotic Evil forces to the northeast. The paladin left with assurances that he would return with the rest of the party. When the rest of the group made it to the Keep, they were ushered into a meeting with the Castellan, who in turn led them to dinner with "an important guest". There, in a scene totally ripped off from "The Empire Strikes Back", was General Thar (Vader). The entire keep had, in fact, become populated with bhuts allied to Thar, who had massacred the original garrison. (I always felt that these creatures, spawned in the wastes of the Sind, fit perfectly into the darker parts of Karameikos. Their ability to be detected as "Good" also allowed the paladin to be duped). The paladin and one of the NPC clerics were captured, and the rest of the group had to battle their way out from between hordes of bhuts (not a pretty sight). In subsequent games, the prisoners had to esape from the Caves of Chaos (stocked with a very different breed of monsters!) and eventually the party found themselves holed up in the Keep fending off an army of humanoids and one very big and mean red dragon. Prince Jagger von Drachenfels was involved, given his role with Thar, and some elements went full circle back to Glantri with Prince Morphail. Anyway, given the lack of other published descriptions of the Keep, that's what I did with it. Jim Sahlas *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 02:04:04 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Fwd: Petition to revive Mystara] In a message dated 98-07-01 15:06:24 EDT, Peter Adkison writes: > > One of the ideas we've toyed with is producing generic adventures with > > conversion notes for use in various worlds. This is sorta like your idea > > but in reverse. What if we published an adventure, or a source book on, > > say, a knight order or something, and there were a couple pages in the > > back on how to tweak it for Mystara, Ravenloft, Dragonlance, Greyhawk, etc.? > > Anyway, it's an idea we're thinking about; I'd be curious what the Mystara > > fans would think My gut feeling is that this approach might work better for sourcebooks than for adventures; Mystara loses a lot when its peculiar personalities are replaced with generic NPCs who might fit into any setting. But think back to Kara-Tur, Al-Qadim, the Horde, Maztica, and the various "HR" supplements. Each of them describes a real world culture in RPG terms and for the most part is rather sketchy on particular personalities and exact geography. Adding a chapter describing similar cultures in various game worlds would not be too difficult and, even if very specific adaptation notes are included, the result could be a product of interest to fans of many game worlds. The trap, of course, is that you must avoid doing a rush job in which it becomes obvious that the authors of the work designed the rules for one setting and know nothing at all about any of the others. But if such a "generic" supplement is done right, I would definitely look forward to seeing it. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 02:04:12 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! In a message dated 98-07-01 01:08:54 EDT, rmunch@easynet.co.uk writes: > After playing Spelljammer a lot (and Planescape) a standard rule is that a > wizard from a given campaign world can only cast spells from that world. > So, for example, a Glantrian wizard would be able to cast Magic Defiance > Undone and become a Dracologist where the Realms mage couldnt, while Spell > Engine and Snillocs Snowball Swarm would elude the Glantrian. Of course you realize that many famous Mystaran wizards such as Prince Etienne d'Ambreville are from places other than Mystara, right? A better rule would be to say that a wizard only has easy access to local spells, with "local" defined by where he is rather than where he is from. And even that assumes that he has been accepted by the local wizards - -- thus it is very unlikely for a non-Ethengarian wizard to learn the ways of a Hakomon. It also makes a big difference whether the wizard is "just passing through" or has settled down in a new home. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 02:04:10 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Dimensions (was Peter Adkinson) In a message dated 98-07-01 16:43:00 EDT, rmunch@easynet.co.uk writes: > I always had the impression that the guys at TSR really did want to bring > Mystara back. For a dead world, so different from AD+D (and hard to > integrate into the AD+D multiverse, which is what I think must happen > really) theres a lot of oblique referrances to it. I am not sure that integrating Mystara into the AD&D multiverse is all that hard -- the problem is that it really won't work unless you expand that multiverse to include alternate dimensions. I would imagine, for example, that it is far easier to travel between Mystara and Toril than between either of these worlds and Athas, even if Athas and Toril are more clearly shown as part of the same multiverse. But if we revive the D&D/WotI concept of "dimensions" we can include other cosmologies that are incompatible with the planar arrangement of the Planescape setting (which is assumed -- perhaps incorrectly -- to be the setting of all AD&D game worlds) and its predecessors such as the "Manual of the Planes". But if we assume that the dimensional gates are fairly numerous, then we can move between dimensions so effortlessly than many adventurers will never figure out that they have done so. A few examples: - -- Gates or portals whose endpoints are on the surface of a given world could transport adventurers from one dimension to another without exposing them to any alternate planes. Questions about the exact arrangements of the Inner and Outer Planes might not even come up. - -- A gate in the phlogiston between crystal spheres of the Prime Material Plane could lead a group of spelljamming adventurers into space near Mystara. The outsiders would think that they have entered the crystal sphere of Mystaraspace -- and the Mystarans would have no real way to be sure whether they were right or wrong until they become more advanced in their spacefaring capabilities. - -- A gate in the Ethereal Plane could lead outsiders to what they might think of as the "Demi-Planes" of Mystara or Ravenloft. The inability to reach the Astral Plane directly from either of these worlds might lead some to conclude that these worlds are entirely contained within the Ethereal Plane as "Demi-Planes", but further exploration might eventually show that these worlds are entirely separate dimensions. - -- A gate in the Astral Plane would be much rarer than the other types of gates, but if such a gate were ever found it would quickly clue in the Planars about different dimensions. On one side you would have the "great wheel" of aligned planes, while on the other side you would have the home planes of the five Spheres and a chaotic assortment of other planes in no particular arrangement. Of course, for this scheme to work well we would need some sort of unifying theme to the variety of dimensions -- but this should not be too hard for the folks at TSR/WotC if they have not lost the creators of "The Primal Order". *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 02:04:19 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Grand Council of Alphatia - long In a message dated 98-07-01 14:33:49 EDT, JamugaKhan@aol.com writes: > True, but the first ten hakomons have not returned and the wages > of the other hakomons were rising tremendously. So I gad to switch > to a more common strategy. If you ask me, I would say, that these > hakomons are still alive and very happy to live in a realm now which > appraises spellcaster so high. Ah -- I hadn't heard that part before. Sorry I overestimated the loyalty of your hakomons! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 13:28:52 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! >> After playing Spelljammer a lot (and Planescape) a standard rule is that a >> wizard from a given campaign world can only cast spells from that world. >> So, for example, a Glantrian wizard would be able to cast Magic Defiance >> Undone and become a Dracologist where the Realms mage couldnt, while Spell >> Engine and Snillocs Snowball Swarm would elude the Glantrian. > >Of course you realize that many famous Mystaran wizards such as Prince >Etienne d'Ambreville are from places other than Mystara, right? Well, yeah. They get the Glantrian spells! As these otherworlders are responsible for these spells in the first place, it makes little difference when you say they get Glantrian or Laterre spells, coz they're the same thing... >A better rule would be to say that a wizard only has easy access to local >spells, with "local" defined by where he is rather than where he is from. >And even that assumes that he has been accepted by the local wizards >-- thus it is very unlikely for a non-Ethengarian wizard to learn the ways >of a Hakomon. > >It also makes a big difference whether the wizard is "just passing through" >or has settled down in a new home. Well, we say that it takes about two years to train up a competent person from zero level human to 1st level mage. This training is slightly different depending on where you are being taught, and it is these differences in casting spells that limit the spells you can cast. If a Mystaran wizard wanted to cast Realms spells, for example, he would have to go to the Realms and study there, as an "apprentice", to learn the different casting methods that Realms mages use, taking probably between one and two years. So it is possible, just more difficult than copying down a spell into your spellbook... Its only there to stop PC powergamers! Besides, I reckon that Krynnish spells like Timeheal, Glantrian spells like Sathraths Ingenious etc. etc... and Realms spells like Spell Engine are some of the things that make campaign worlds unique. You do not want to spoil this by letting all mages everywhere get access to everything. I am reminded by silver golems, a Mystaran golem. In Planescape some wizard was was churning these things out (because they are really gross wizard killers). And the DM said, well, a Planescape mage would have learnt how to make these anyway, because Planescape has contact with all Prime worlds. I was not amused at all (that sparked a nice argument!) because that is just what I really hate - campaigns stealing good bits from other campaigns. Planescape mages get their own spells, their own golems, their own unique kits and abilities. God, we'd be seeing Dark Sun Defilers with Glantrian Circles next (God forbid!) Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 08:24:16 -0500 From: "Timothy R. Haney" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! Rob wrote: > > I was not amused at all (that sparked a nice argument!) because that is just > what I really hate - campaigns stealing good bits from other campaigns. > Planescape mages get their own spells, their own golems, their own unique > kits and abilities. It depends on how you see magic. If you see it as a force like gravity, then it functions much the same everywhere. I don't myself. I see magic like breatheable air. It there but not always the same make up. Mages learn to use magic on a particular world in a certain way because that is the way it works there. Krynn's magic is much like clerical spells in that it comes from the gods (or used to). Toril's is tied to the Weave. Get cut off from the weave of magic there and you have no spells. Athas draws its magic from the lifeforce of plants and animals (special conditions are in place to draw from animal life). Cerilia's true magic from the Birthright setting depends on if you have a touch of the essence of the gods (or an elf but I don't know the reason for that). Oerth's magic isn't special at all ;> So, which is Mystara's? - -- This has been a Galwylin® Production The Tome of Galwylin (http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/) galwylin@airnet.net | ICQ #6755972 | AIM: Galwylin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 12:23:06 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Fwd: Petition to revive Mystara] << > One of the ideas we've toyed with is producing generic adventures with > conversion notes for use in various worlds. This is sorta like your idea > but in reverse. What if we published an adventure, or a source book on, > say, a knight order or something, and there were a couple pages in the back > on how to tweak it for Mystara, Ravenloft, Dragonlance, Greyhawk, etc.? > Anyway, it's an idea we're thinking about; I'd be curious what the Mystara > fans would think >> The idea is good enough, a product with a good-sounding name on the front and a note about Mystara on the back. But I have one great fear, that the ideas how to link this product into Mystara are simply bad. It's like the DDA4 fiasco, where a note in the good DDA3 said that I could expect a link to DDA4, but the link was weak and bad and the whole module not worth buying it. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 12:30:54 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! On Thu, 2 Jul 1998, Timothy R. Haney wrote: > that). Oerth's magic isn't special at all ;> So, which is Mystara's? Mystara's latent magic comes from the World-shield, the layer between the inner and outer crust of Mystara. It is amplified to a much more user-friendly form by the Nucleus of the Spheres. How cool is that? Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 12:47:33 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Grand Council of Alphatia - long << Jamuga, when you'll write that Gaz don't forget about the Shraek Beholders, the infamous Hardball team from Blackheart. >> Fabrizio, this idea is so good it could be mine... :-) Really, I wouldn't swear it but I already had some similar ideas... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 12:47:35 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Grand Council of Alphatia - long << Ah -- I hadn't heard that part before. Sorry I overestimated the loyalty of your hakomons! >> Hakomons are useful - like wild horses: You can use them, but don't trust unless they're broken. Unfortunately there's a difference between horses and hakomons. A broken hakomon is no longer useful. Good, that they want to see Glantri conquered as well as the khans, but I shudder what they would make of it, once we've taken it over... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's is paying you well." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 18:57:37 CEST From: "Herve Musseau" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 7 : Gareth = an Immortal returned from the Vortex This could be any immortal you wish to create, since we don't know what lies beyond the Vortex, nor who went there. You can then use the scenarios described for various immortals in the other posts, as fits the personality of your returned-from-Vortex-Immortal. However, two Immortals are worth a special mention here: Vertandhi and Sinbad. a. Gareth = Vertandhi Vertandhi is a very old immortal whose current whereabouts are unknown. He's from Time and has about the same portfolio that Khoronus, and reportedly was a Hierarch. If IYC you make the assumption that Vertandhi = Khoronus, you have an interesting Immortal who sponsored himself at least once and was the reigning hierarch of Time twice. A good candidate for Old One status, no? (Which self is the oldest one does not really matter, ie which one dropped immortality and which one searched for Old One-dom, and when, are irrelevant at this point thanks to the time-traveling usual to Time Immortals.) Whether he is an Old One or just an Immortal who went through the Vortex you can decide IYC. If an Old One, he may be the one who tampered with the NoS to stop WotI and save the Old Ones' experiment (of which he is part, but Immortals of Time are used to cope with such paradoxes), and has become Gareth to remind mortals and Immortals alike the lessons of history. This mean you can combine the possibilities described in post #6 (Old One) and post #5 (new initiate) where Khoronus is discussed. If just an Immortal who managed to venture beyond the Vortex, Khoronus/Vertandhi is one of the most powerful and knowledgeable (and wise) Immortal ever. It may be him who stepped in at the end of WotI and posed as an Old One, using his tremendous power to force Rad and Ixion to bow before him and draw Rad into the NoS. Probably the knowledge he discovered make him more powerful than other Immortals and undetectable by the Council that watch for Immortal interference on the Prime. He decided to create the alternate identity of Gareth to both remind mortals and Immortals the lessons of history, and give them the possibility to become enlightened as he now is after his voyage beyond the Vortex by showing them the correct path (but not enforcing it, as it's self enlightment, not brainwashing). b. Gareth = Sinbad Sinbad is a traveler. What he really is is unknown; the Immortals hypothize he may be an Old One, or one of their envoys. If an Old One, what has been said above for Khoronus, or in post #6, could be applied with Sinbad. If an agent of the Old Ones, then it's basically the same, except that he's not as powerful (but at that level it does not really matter, does it?) We can consider a third possibility : that he is simply a very old Immortal who managed to go beyond the Vortex and returned (as said above for Vertandhi). That is why the other Immortals believe him to be an Old One or their agent, while he in fact is just an Immortal who managed to do what they're trying to. He decided to set up the alternate identity of Gareth to help other discover the way to enlightment as he did. However, to achieve that you must open your mind. That is why Sinbad encourages people to leave their homes and travel (as Gareth, he encourages his followers to leave their homes and travel the world to spread his words): it is a way to opening yourself to what you don't know, going beyond your fears or your confort, and discover what's beyond. He also encourages "mental travel", ie fighting one's own preconceived ideas (like the teachings of Immortals, for the mortals; or the idea that mortals are but pawns, for Immortals) and that they should focus on enlightment (this is embodied by the meditation and fighting style of his fighting monks/mystics; you may also wish to introduce psionics here). My next post will be about the numerous possibilities that were suggested by various people on the MML or in private email, and that will amount to about #14 or 15. I think it will be one big, heteroclitic post (with ideas ranging from very good and usable to absurd but much fun). _____________________________________________________________ Herve Musseau Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/ Almanac page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/9037/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 12:03:32 -0500 From: "Timothy R. Haney" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! SteelAngel wrote: > > Mystara's latent magic comes from the World-shield, the layer between > the inner and outer crust of Mystara. It is amplified to a much more > user-friendly form by the Nucleus of the Spheres. > > How cool is that? That's pretty cool! ;> So if Mystara wasn't hollow, it wouldn't have magic? Or you could say that the world is formed around a magical force? Just taking notes for Terari's next lecture at the School of Magecraft :D - -- This has been a Galwylin® Production The Tome of Galwylin (http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/) galwylin@airnet.net | ICQ #6755972 | AIM: Galwylin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 13:20:59 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! On Thu, 2 Jul 1998, Timothy R. Haney wrote: > That's pretty cool! ;> So if Mystara wasn't hollow, it wouldn't have > magic? Or you could say that the world is formed around a magical > force? Just taking notes for Terari's next lecture at the School of > Magecraft :D No, The World Shield is like the geophysical core of Mystara, since Mystara doesn't actually have a core (but surface dwellers don't know this.) The core radiates magic outward, but not as much inward (That and the Immortals spells set the higher intelligence needed to learn spells in the hollow world) If Mystara wasn't hollow it'd still have magic. But if it didn't have the NoS, the the magic wouldn't be as usable. /me remembers the wild mages of Blackmoor, without the benefit of the NoS. Remember, the NoS is a magical reactor. Looking in the Glantri Gaz, there's a whole table of Magical Overload. If the NoS goes, Magic goes too. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 13:35:43 -0500 From: "Timothy R. Haney" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones This might not be a popular view but I just don't like the Old Ones. Their mysterious past or legend is fine but I don't like them to be active in any way. In fact, I'd rather they be dead as I think their death could be tied to the Immortals' rise easily enough. But I know that's probably not the way things are. The main reason I don't like them is that I look at the Immortals as the gods of Mystara. With the Old Ones hanging around, I'm unsure why mortals would waste their time messing with the pretenders of power when the Old Ones hold the winning hand. Course I've also decided to take the view that the Immortals are gods as in other settings. Maybe they could be more powerful or less than gods but I've not seen anything at all that tells me exactly what an Immortal is, why they take names of gods, and why they need worshippers at all. They've been referred to as gods enough times that I've given up trying to understand how they cannot be gods. Since they are gods to me, I think the name Old Ones refers to the old gods of Mystara that have been destroyed somehow. I just think it simplifies things. I don't think its a good idea that you can't describe the Immortals in a single sentence. No more 'Immortals are like gods only they are more powerful but less powerful in some cases.' I'd really like to use them in some things and at the moment its just too complicated to attempt. - -- This has been a Galwylin® Production The Tome of Galwylin (http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/) galwylin@airnet.net | ICQ #6755972 | AIM: Galwylin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 20:24:34 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones >This might not be a popular view but I just don't like the Old Ones. >Their mysterious past or legend is fine but I don't like them to be >active in any way. In fact, I'd rather they be dead as I think their >death could be tied to the Immortals' rise easily enough. But I know >that's probably not the way things are. The main reason I don't like >them is that I look at the Immortals as the gods of Mystara. With the >Old Ones hanging around, I'm unsure why mortals would waste their time >messing with the pretenders of power when the Old Ones hold the winning >hand. Well, I think the Old Ones are the Immortals "Gods". Something to keep Immortal PCs in line? >Since they are gods to me, I think the name Old Ones refers to the old >gods of Mystara that have been destroyed somehow. I just think it >simplifies things. I don't think its a good idea that you can't >describe the Immortals in a single sentence. No more 'Immortals are >like gods only they are more powerful but less powerful in some cases.' >I'd really like to use them in some things and at the moment its just >too complicated to attempt. Well, IMC the Old Ones are Gods who were defeated by the First Immortals (Like Ixion, named after one of the Greek villains who defied the Gods). So the Old Ones are Cronus/Uranus types who have been defeated. However, they couldnt be permanently destroyed, so they have been cast into the Nightmare Plane by the Immortals, and trapped there. However, as a twist, the Immortals have completely forgotton about this ancient war. They cant get into the dimension where the old ones are imprisoned by their own ancient magic, but they dont know this. I just find that ironic, given the situation... :) On somebodies website (probably Galwylins, given his opinion) there was mention of the Forgotten One, which I thought was very cool. The Immortal Storm adventure I interpreted as the Forgotton One needing the five essences of the senses (which are the objectives of the Immortal Storm) to reform. And the mysterious figure who warned Ixion in the NoS Chamber at the end of WotI was the Forgotten One. (So perhaps Gareth is the Forgotten One??? :) Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 20:25:39 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! >If Mystara wasn't hollow it'd still have magic. But if it didn't have the >NoS, the the magic wouldn't be as usable. /me remembers the wild mages of >Blackmoor, without the benefit of the NoS. Whats this about the "wild mages of Blackmoor"? Explain! Cheerz ROB (a wild mage fan) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 16:08:19 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones On Thu, 2 Jul 1998, Timothy R. Haney wrote: > simplifies things. I don't think its a good idea that you can't > describe the Immortals in a single sentence. No more 'Immortals are I can. "Immortality is the next step above Mortality; Its godlike powers granted to those mortals who have proven themselves worthy." Does that work? As a personal aside, I beleive that the Old Ones aren't active. The D&D Multiverse is their experiment in Quantum relativity, and they only interdict when something goes horribly wrong. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #464 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, July 3 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 465 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! Re: [MYSTARA] - The Grand Council of Alphatia - long [MYSTARA] - Dimensions Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic (Was: Terari mets El) Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 7 : Gareth = an Immortal returned from the Vortex Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones Re: [MYSTARA] - [Fwd: Petition to revive Mystara] Re: [MYSTARA] - We've got some attention Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic (Was: Terari mets El) [MYSTARA] - The use of a WISH [MYSTARA] - Thieves Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! [MYSTARA] - Lightning Zombies Re: [MYSTARA] - Lightning Zombies [MYSTARA] - the 39 steps [MYSTARA] - I'm sick of this Terari and Elminster subject - its on everything! Let this message be... Anything Else! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 16:11:03 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! On Thu, 2 Jul 1998, Rob wrote: > Whats this about the "wild mages of Blackmoor"? Explain! Magic in Blackmoor was very unrefined. I wish I had the DA supplements to explain it better. I used Wild Mage to mean a mage who deals with raw mana, without the benefits of a focusing spell (as in Fireball), or item. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 20:51:05 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Grand Council of Alphatia - long At 12.47 02/07/98 EDT, JamugaKhan@aol.com wrote: >Fabrizio, this idea is so good it could be mine... :-) > >Really, I wouldn't swear it but I already had some similar ideas... In November 1996 there was a discussion on the MML about the names of Hardball team, both before and after WotI. I started debating oy with Herve in private e-mail, then we moved the discussion to the MML. No final agreement was found and the discussion slowly died out, anyway you could find all those names in the archives and I can send you the messages I exchanged with Herve privately. Let me know if you're interested. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 20:09:04 -0400 From: David Brian Olsen Subject: [MYSTARA] - Dimensions > But if we revive the D&D/WotI concept of "dimensions" we can include > other cosmologies that are incompatible with the planar arrangement > of the Planescape setting (which is assumed -- perhaps incorrectly -- > to be the setting of all AD&D game worlds) and its predecessors such > as the "Manual of the Planes". But if we assume that the dimensional > gates are fairly numerous, then we can move between dimensions so > effortlessly than many adventurers will never figure out that they have > done so. A few examples: > Of course, for this scheme to work well we would need some sort of > unifying theme to the variety of dimensions -- but this should not be > too hard for the folks at TSR/WotC if they have not lost the creators > of "The Primal Order". > > The D&D Multiverse is their experiment in Quantum relativity, How many of you are familiar with the television show "Sliders?" For those of you who aren't it's a TV show where a brilliant physics student invents a way to "slide" between parallel dimensions. Hence there is another possible gateway that Kaviyd didn't think of. Someone could invent a device, which the show calls a timer, that creates a vortex to be able to slide to the different AD&D worlds, each in a different dimension. Of course as Quinn, the genius who invented the device said, you need a basic knowledge of quantum mechanics-"an understanding of subatomic particles moving from one place of an atom to another without going through the space in between." Of course nobody in Mystara or the Realms (not even Elminster!) knows of such sciences...or do they? Rafiel knew a things about physics...in fact I suspect many Blackmoor scientists are familiar with the concepts of quantum mechanics and superstring theory. And what about the civilization that produced the F.S.S Beagle? Could they have been from another dimension and when the slid to Mystara they crashed? And if the multiverse is a mere experiment by the Old Ones, then surely they have the ability to slide to alternate dimensions at will. Anyone might be able to find a timer from ancient Blackmoor and then be able to slide into any campaign setting at the touch of a button. Just a thought. - -David *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 00:15:42 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! In a message dated 98-07-02 13:25:38 EDT, galwylin@airnet.net writes: > That's pretty cool! ;> So if Mystara wasn't hollow, it wouldn't have magic? Or if it did have magic, its magic would be very different. > Or you could say that the world is formed around a magical > force? Just taking notes for Terari's next lecture at the School of > Magecraft :D I don't think we have a clear account of just how the world was formed -- that is certainly a mystery about which we could come up with some very interesting speculations. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 00:15:47 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones In a message dated 98-07-02 17:27:36 EDT, eand@WPI.EDU writes: > As a personal aside, I beleive that the Old Ones aren't active. The D&D > Multiverse is their experiment in Quantum relativity, and they only > interdict when something goes horribly wrong. And given the fact that nothing beyond the Old Ones has been named, it is best to keep the Old Ones rather vague. The closer you get to the ultimate power or powers of the universe, the less well defined such a power should be. But I would suggest that we do already have "rules" in regard to non-interference by various classes of beings: - -- Mortals have no rules; they may interfere wherever there is no greater power to stop them. - -- Immortals are greatly restricted from interfering on the Prime Material Plane; they must either have an acceptable reason to do so (based on exceptions stated in WotI) or create a Mortal Identity that is limited to the amount of power available to a mortal and is undetectable as anything more than a mortal. - -- Old Ones are greatly restricted from interfering in any dimension where Immortals are active; they must either be correcting a very serious foul-up by the Immortals or they must create an "Immortal Identity" that is limited to the amount of power available to an Immortal and is undetectable as anything more than an Immortal. Naturally, this would make Old One interference on the Prime Material Plane a very tricky matter -- an Old One on the Prime Material Plane would have to be the Mortal Identity of an Immortal Identity of an Old One, and the Mortal Identity would be limited to the powers of a mortal. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 07:50:58 +0200 (EET DST) From: Anias Pasi Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic (Was: Terari mets El) > On Thu, 2 Jul 1998, Timothy R. Haney wrote: > > That's pretty cool! ;> So if Mystara wasn't hollow, it wouldn't have > > magic? Or you could say that the world is formed around a magical > > force? Just taking notes for Terari's next lecture at the School of > > Magecraft :D Max IV wrote: > If Mystara wasn't hollow it'd still have magic. But if it didn't have the > NoS, the the magic wouldn't be as usable. /me remembers the wild mages of > Blackmoor, without the benefit of the NoS. > Remember, the NoS is a magical reactor. Looking in the Glantri Gaz, > there's a whole table of Magical Overload. If the NoS goes, Magic goes > too. I'l have to disagree to everything said so far. facts: -There WAS magic before core or NoS -The Mystaran Magic works in planes (no core nor NoS) -Not all mages (none but glantrian) use NoS I'm not sure if I can explain my view to the magic in Mystara, but I'll try. This is also the basic theory I use in my Glantri/Mage game, allthough it's even more complicated ofcource. The reality we call Mystara is formed of five essences, also called speres of influence. Each sphere is a power in itself, consisting of some ideas, forms, shapes etc. when combined these spheres form entirely new kind of realities, as their different influence join together. Its actually much like the alchemical things by the classic philosophers: Fire, water, matter and air forming different pieces of reality, except that we have entrophy too. As to the spheres and their meaning, I suppose you all know wivch ones I,m talking about. Magic, then is the ability to influence the spheres the reality consists of. A mage basicly uses his inner, or some other, piece of reality to effect the surrounding reality. The reality then goes into instability, out of wich the mage makes the new reality, or lets it go back to a reality similar to the one that was. A Mage here would mostly use the sphere of energy (force, fire), whereas a cleric would use his gods sphere. The effect is allways basicly the same, but it does explain why the spells are different (different things consist of different amounts of each sphere, so some spheres are more able to shake so things: ). I'l take an excample here: a mage uses a fireball: the mage uses his internalenergy (or that inside bat guano :) to shake the reality for a small moment. He basicly takes the (some of the) energy in one form and moves it into an other place in the reality. What then happens is the fireball; the extra energy in one spot causes instability, wich shows as a ball of fire (the form of the sphere of energy). As the reality starts getting back to stability the extra energy is moved back to mage or dumbed to surroundings. But not entirely. A small part stays, making possible the change in reality ( the goblin now has a bit more energy, too bad for him). (in the Mage game the mage uses his willpower to make the chance, and the spheres are a bit different as in the mage game) well, it came up a bit muffled, but I spose one should be able to understand. This theory is muchly backed by the system. Just read WoTI or the black box. And besides it suits with the classic philosophers too :) So. according to this theory: The worldcore is an anomaly in the reality. In it a lot of matter is stuffed in to a place where there should be less matter. Hence its special effects. The NoS is an other thing entirely. Just read the WoTI; the Nos comes from an other dimension. Other dimensions can, and often does, consist of different spheres than the Mystara-universum. They can have more spheres, less spheress, different spheres (different planes in the multiversum can have less speres than mystara, or consist of different amounts of different spheres (ex. planes of elements), but none has more spheres than the basic five. Except than the fact tat the Nos does change the sphere of energy (later the s of entrophy) into something else, into a sixth sphere of similar quality to the energy. This then causes problems. A mage who sucs too much rad (the sixth sphere) into hmself, starts to glow (he now consists differently than he should) and may even cause a permanent damage to his consistency (the rad-disease) as rad takes place in his form. But this is only a small thing. As the NoS changes the sphere of energy essence into essence of RAD, little by little the whole mystara will change as the consistency and balance of spheres is changed. The effect starts building first in glantri, then elsewhere in the globe and the plane and lastly in the whole universum. good bye Ixion. So in the Mage game, the NoS changes force into prime. Too bad. Someday the flaems will wake up and see that their favourite sphere is dimmed by their secret sphere... (well only a couple of flaems know the prime, but that is what they call it). Hope You managed to read the whole thing. It's a bit long. I wont go into more detail or proof, but You will easily see that the theory works well with most aspects (or all) of magic in Mystara. And anyway I like it. Pasi - -- X Pasi Anias X p.03 - 2533536 X \\|// X X Sammonkatu 28 A 18 X a122286@proffa X (o o) X X 33540 Tampere X .cc.tut.fi X o000--(_)--000o X *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 09:17:21 +0000 (GMT) From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones >This might not be a popular view but I just don't like the Old Ones. >Their mysterious past or legend is fine but I don't like them to be >active in any way. In fact, I'd rather they be dead as I think their >death could be tied to the Immortals' rise easily enough. But I know >that's probably not the way things are. The main reason I don't like >them is that I look at the Immortals as the gods of Mystara. With the >Old Ones hanging around, I'm unsure why mortals would waste their time >messing with the pretenders of power when the Old Ones hold the winning >hand. I think that's because mortals don't know about the Old Ones. They don't actually do anything, and they're only theorised by the Immortals so why would a mortal worship one? They wouldn't get anything out of it... >Course I've also decided to take the view that the Immortals are gods as >in other settings. Maybe they could be more powerful or less than gods >but I've not seen anything at all that tells me exactly what an Immortal >is, why they take names of gods, and why they need worshippers at all. >They've been referred to as gods enough times that I've given up trying >to understand how they cannot be gods. It does seem like they're pretty much the same thing, and although I rigorously call the immortals IMC (mainly as a recurring joke so PC's can die after saying"God's sake" or something :) ) I think the differences are only important if you're trying to fit all the AD&D campaign worlds together. Which personally I don't like, well, maybe for some, but I think Krynn and Mystara and Athas should stand on their own, without Elminster or some Berk from the Planes coming along and slagging off their most powerful mages (or other people). It takes so much away from the internal world feel of those places. I like 'em seperate... >Since they are gods to me, I think the name Old Ones refers to the old >gods of Mystara that have been destroyed somehow. I love the idea of the war and the barrier being set up by the immortals long ago. Hmm, perhaps the reason they can't remember anything beyond a certain while back (IMC this is just 7000 years due to me misreading something in the Hollow World box :) ) is that the Draeden war was then? gordon PS. 2 of our 3 lines to the states went down yesterday so it could just be mail backing up, but has this place got quiet all of a sudden?!? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 02:59:46 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 7 : Gareth = an Immortal returned from the Vortex Sitting here going through the postings I`ve just had a thought. What if the NoS gained sentience during WotI? could Gareth actually be the lifeforce of same? <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 03:04:44 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! >Magic in Blackmoor was very unrefined. I wish I had the DA supplements to >explain it better. I used Wild Mage to mean a mage who deals with raw >mana, without the benefits of a focusing spell (as in Fireball), or item. > Unless it`s in DA3 there`s no mention of such IIRC. However NEVER let the facts stand in the way of a good story! <;-p ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 03:07:28 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones >As a personal aside, I beleive that the Old Ones aren't active. The D&D >Multiverse is their experiment in Quantum relativity, and they only >interdict when something goes horribly wrong. > So that`s why the weren`t paying attention.IIRC the mere observation of events at this level actually alters the event! <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 03:16:56 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Fwd: Petition to revive Mystara] > i get the feeling tsr/wotc is going that ` rout` anyway. Is that just a spelling mistake or do you know something? <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 03:20:07 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - We've got some attention >Has anyone ever seen the film "the 39 steps"? Which version? Robert Powwell`s, Kenneth Moore`s or one of the others. No let me guess, you used ALL of them simultaneously. That`s how to really confuse players! <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 03:25:27 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! Krynn's magic is much like clerical >spells in that it comes from the gods (or used to). Toril's is tied to >the Weave. Get cut off from the weave of magic there and you have no >spells. Athas draws its magic from the lifeforce of plants and animals >(special conditions are in place to draw from animal life). Cerilia's >true magic from the Birthright setting depends on if you have a touch of >the essence of the gods (or an elf but I don't know the reason for >that). Oerth's magic isn't special at all ;> So, which is Mystara's? > Basically I`d have to say ALL of the above, and none of the above. The way magic works has to be peronal and unique for each practitioner. Otherwise why have spell learning chance? If all magic was identical then ANY mage could cast spells of level capable of with no problems! Then again this is all IMOO. <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 03:34:20 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! >I don't think we have a clear account of just how the world was formed - -- >that is certainly a mystery about which we could come up with some >very interesting speculations. > Actually IIRC the gold box stated that Mystara was on a Megalith with which the Immortals had reached agreement. So the BIG question is `Where did the Megalith go?`. IIRC when one enters it`s chaotic phase it pulls it`s essence into the core (after destroying all life upon itself). Maybe the deal was that the Immortals would move it elsewhere during this phase so that life on Mystara could continue.If this was going on a time of FSS Beagle maybe that explains why the ship crashed! This is what I`ve actually used in my campaign with the twist that the Megaliths lifeforce was seperated from its intellect so even when it was chaotic there was no power to do damage ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 03:42:56 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic (Was: Terari mets El) . Except than the fact tat the Nos does change the sphere of >energy (later the s of entrophy) into something else, into a sixth sphere >of similar quality to the energy. This then causes problems. A mage who >sucs too much rad (the sixth sphere) into hmself, starts to glow (he now >consists differently than he should) and may even cause a permanent damage >to his consistency (the rad-disease) as rad takes place in his form. But >this is only a small thing. As the NoS changes the sphere of energy >essence into essence of RAD, little by little the whole mystara will >change as the consistency and balance of spheres is changed. The effect >starts building first in glantri, then elsewhere in the globe and the >plane and lastly in the whole universum. good bye Ixion. > This stuff actuall fits in with all the sixth sphere ideas quite well doesn`t it? Especially since it`s now canon (boo hiss gnash) that entropy is negative material and IIRC staying on positive to long can seriously damage ones health also. Is this what rad-disease is? oo much lifeforce in too little time causing warping etc. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 03:59:11 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: [MYSTARA] - The use of a WISH Is Claude d'Ambreville, the fallen paladin, still Undead? IIRC Etienne brought all the victims of Henri`s plot back to life with a WISH. Claude WAS a victim it`s only his undead status that kept him`alive`. Also is Stephen the anglicised version of Etienne? `cos IIRC the head of Amber family in X2 is Stephen Amber no mention of Etienne anywhere. All of the others had both versions of their names listed. Another thing I was going through PWA2 (AC1011) and spotted something that I`d always missed before. Baron Threshold`s niece gets marriedto an adventurer. Then in K:KoA the second adventure is because the niece has fallen in love with a druid with an entirely different name. Have I missed the death of her husband in PWA of is she just a bit of a trollop! <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 04:05:37 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Thieves I`ve just had a thought about AD&D thieves if you use `Skills and Powers`. Let the thief ONLY spend their points for level on more abilities for their class or to buy off hinderances they had originally. This shouldn`t be too unbalancing and gives thieves something to look foreward to, such as that detect magic ability they`ll get at a later level. <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 06:14:57 -0500 From: "Timothy R. Haney" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones Gordon McCormick wrote: > > It does seem like they're pretty much the same thing, and although I > rigorously call the immortals IMC (mainly as a recurring joke so PC's > can die after saying"God's sake" or something :) ) I think the > differences are only important if you're trying to fit all the AD&D > campaign worlds together. Which personally I don't like, well, maybe > for some, but I think Krynn and Mystara and Athas should stand on > their own, without Elminster or some Berk from the Planes coming > along and slagging off their most powerful mages (or other people). > It takes so much away from the internal world feel of those places. I > like 'em seperate... I always refer to the Immortals as 'the Immortals' since I consider it the term used for the gods on Mystara. > I love the idea of the war and the barrier being set up by the > immortals long ago. Hmm, perhaps the reason they can't remember > anything beyond a certain while back (IMC this is just 7000 years due > to me misreading something in the Hollow World box :) ) is that the > Draeden war was then? I posted this theory that was in the early stages on the MMB in an effort to explain the relation of the Immortals to gods. I don't think it even attracted flies... *** Dieties can't manifest themselves in Mystara for whatever reason (haven't got that far in this but perhaps its the doings of the Old Ones or their deaths created some kind of blockage to those outside). So, what they did was to send part of their power into mortals of great levels (they are the only ones that could hold it) that elevated them to quasi-deity status (Immortality) that served as a link between deities and Mystara. That's why there are so many Immortals with names of gods. Since, this power overtook the original mortals' essence. An Immortal is really two spirits inhabiting the same space because that is the only way a god came come to Mystara. Now this makes a problem for some of those Immortals with names of deities that were sponsored by another Immortal unless its the god that arrived first helping out a friend to come to Mystara. Also, it might be possible that the 'uplift' has been granted to a few mortals so that they are of a single essence. This would make them a special case since they are completely native to Mystara and not restricted. So, Odin is restricted on what he can do while Halav has all abilities unbound because of his native nature. Odin has learned how to take advantage the situation to explain how he can be of greater power than some native to the sphere. *** Maybe in the future, these half-gods will be forced from the spehere letting Mystara's native gods have complete reign? Does this explain why there are Immortals with the names of gods and histories tied to Mystara? - -- This has been a Galwylin® Production The Tome of Galwylin (http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/) galwylin@airnet.net | ICQ #6755972 | AIM: Galwylin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 06:22:43 -0500 From: "Timothy R. Haney" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! paul dooley wrote: > > Basically I`d have to say ALL of the above, and none of the above. The > way magic works has to be peronal and unique for each practitioner. > Otherwise why have spell learning chance? If all magic was identical > then ANY mage could cast spells of level capable of with no problems! > Then again this is all IMOO. <;-P I don't believe magic is unique or personal all that much on Mystara. They all stick to the same basic spells. That sounds more like the SAGA system where a mage shapes the magic as he casts. Their personality will show in that system. The spell learning chance really seems to be a check to see if they've learned enough technique to cast that particular spell. Once they have learned it, the casting and affect is going to be the same as anyone elses. Basically, magic is all the same on Mystara or we'd have individual 'fireball' effects. It might be interesting to develop personal effects. Using the fireball spell, maybe a mage casts it so instead of a ball of exploding fire its a ring of fire that surrounds the targets and shrinks inward. - -- This has been a Galwylin® Production The Tome of Galwylin (http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/) galwylin@airnet.net | ICQ #6755972 | AIM: Galwylin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 05:05:41 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! >I don't believe magic is unique or personal all that much on Mystara.=20 >They all stick to the same basic spells. That sounds more like the SAGA >system where a mage shapes the magic as he casts. Their personality >will show in that system. What I meant is that the mage gathers her power in a unique way to achieve the same effect. consider Glantri the way Morphail casts spells is very different to the way Etienne does as far as the gesturing goes. Shamans have to sing and dance. Witches are taught the basis of magic from otherplanar sources. The end result may be the same but the road there can be very different. <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 09:25:58 -0500 From: "Cecil Cosman" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Lightning Zombies A while back some of you may recall I posted asking for information regarding the Lightning Zombies. Well, I've been working on the idea since then and I have a gaz on them more or less now. If anyone would like to help me tidy it up a bit I'd be grateful. C.Cosman *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 06:43:58 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Lightning Zombies >A while back some of you may recall I posted asking for information >regarding the Lightning Zombies. Well, I've been working on the idea since >then and I have a gaz on them more or less now. If anyone would like to >help me tidy it up a bit I'd be grateful. > Must be before I joined, but since I`m about to do a `Return of Crackle` (You know the one who`s mum`s a vampire/cleric of Hel). So I`d definately like a peek at what you`ve done, and I`ll do what little I can to help in return. <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 15:06:54 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: [MYSTARA] - the 39 steps >>Has anyone ever seen the film "the 39 steps"? > >Which version? Robert Powwell`s, Kenneth Moore`s or one of the others. >No let me guess, you used ALL of them simultaneously. That`s how to >really confuse players! <;-P You dont count, your from England. Of course youve seen the 39 steps! (And i was thinking Robert Powells, but any of them would do - they all rule) Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 15:23:08 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: [MYSTARA] - I'm sick of this Terari and Elminster subject - its on everything! Let this message be... Anything Else! >Basically I`d have to say ALL of the above, and none of the above. The >way magic works has to be peronal and unique for each practitioner. >Otherwise why have spell learning chance? If all magic was identical >then ANY mage could cast spells of level capable of with no problems! >Then again this is all IMOO. <;-P I think thats more to reflect whether the mage can wrap his head around the problem. Learning to cast spells is supposed to be incredibly difficult, and that reflects that. If he fails, he gets to try again to learn the spell next level (hes failed his exam, but he gets "retakes") Incidentally (this is the wild mage stuff coming out) the verbal, somatic and material components of a spell (ie whether the mage jumps up and and down, dances tango, or sings Wagner while casting spells) is irrelevant. The mage must imprint a spells energy into his mind (through memorisation) and then he activates that energy through a combination of willpower and spell components. The are merely a tool used by the mage to shape the energy (wild mages try to directly shape spell energy without components, which is more difficult, thus often causing wild surges when the wild mage bungles it). Anyone can duplicate the components - mumbling arcane words, throwing multicoloured powders about and that sort of thing. The mage must learn how to memorise a given spell - and thats something he has to do largely by himself (more justification for the chance to learn spells roll). A non-mage given a spellbook isnt going to be able to cast spells with it (normally - there are always exceptions to the roolz!) because he doesnt know how to memorise. Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #465 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Saturday, July 4 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 466 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Elminster bites chickens head off shocker! Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 7 : Gareth = an Immortal returned from the Vortex Re: [MYSTARA] - The use of a WISH Re: [MYSTARA] - the 39 steps Re: [MYSTARA] - I'm sick of this Terari and Elminster subject - its on everything! Let this message be... Anything Else! [MYSTARA] - Terari vs Elminster: The Return Re: [MYSTARA] - I'm sick of this Terari and Elminster subject - its on everything! Let this message be... Anything Else! [MYSTARA] - Thyatian Military Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones R: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones Re: [MYSTARA] - The use of a WISH Re: [MYSTARA] - BGPD Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic (Was: Terari mets El) Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about B2 Re: [MYSTARA] - We've got some attention Re: [MYSTARA] - We've got some attention Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about B2 Re: [MYSTARA] - We've got some attention Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about B2 Re: [MYSTARA] - We've got some attention Re: [MYSTARA] - BGPD ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 15:46:11 +0000 (GMT) From: Gordon McCormick Subject: [MYSTARA] - Elminster bites chickens head off shocker! >Subject: [MYSTARA] - I'm sick of this Terari and Elminster subject - its on > everything! Let this message be... Anything Else! The fact that it's spelled wrong is bugging as well :) The later Shadowrun stuff has some nice things about magic. Basically it's all the same whether you're a shaman, hermetic mage, psionisist or whatever. But your own opinion of what magic is determines what you can and can't cast. For a psionisist who thinks it's all mind over matter, that's how his spells will come about. But then, there's a third ed SR coming out soon, so maybe they'll change it again... And for the third ed AD&D.... gordon, who still thinks 1st Ed : Greyhawk 2nd Ed: FR 3rd Ed: Mystara would be cool :) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 10:48:51 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 7 : Gareth = an Immortal returned from the Vortex At 02:59 AM 7/3/98 PDT, paul dooley wrote: >Sitting here going through the postings I`ve just had a thought. What if >the NoS gained sentience during WotI? could Gareth actually be the >lifeforce of same? <;-P Now THAT is a cool idea! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 10:54:26 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The use of a WISH At 03:59 AM 7/3/98 PDT, paul dooley wrote: >Is Claude d'Ambreville, the fallen paladin, still Undead? IIRC Etienne >brought all the victims of Henri`s plot back to life with a WISH. Claude >WAS a victim it`s only his undead status that kept him`alive`. A good point. I don't recall this particular subject being brought up... Also is >Stephen the anglicised version of Etienne? Yes `cos IIRC the head of Amber >family in X2 is Stephen Amber no mention of Etienne anywhere. Its on the last page. There are several conversions of names from French to English... All of the >others had both versions of their names listed. Another thing I was >going through PWA2 (AC1011) and spotted something that I`d always missed >before. Baron Threshold`s niece gets marriedto an adventurer. Then in >K:KoA the second adventure is because the niece has fallen in love with >a druid with an entirely different name. Have I missed the death of her >husband in PWA of is she just a bit of a trollop! <;-P Yikes! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 07:59:12 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - the 39 steps >You dont count, your from England. Actually I`m not! I`m a SCOUSER!!! What you said is a good way to lose teeth round here. There`s only two things worse you could have called me, Woolyback or Manc. Then you would have woken up with a horses head in the bed with you! BTW to everyone else this is purely in fun as he should know! back to topicality. Why IS 13 unlucky and 7 lucky? Answers on a postcard to the usual address. Thinking about the listmembers who don`t like the fact that Old Alphatia is a different plane now. Why can`t it be both? Originally it`s on prime with gate to plane where energy resides (can`t remember it`s name at the moment). this would explain large number of mages of power quite nicely. Then we have the Air/Fire war whenhuge numbers of gates are opened to both, eventually creating a crossplanar rift (sort of like portable holes but moreso) that drags a huge part of the prime into the Etherial at first. the forces due to all the mortal gates abate once the makers are dead or gone in most cases and the final rupturing of the attachments could have sent it into the Astral with its only connections being to Energy`s plane, until stabilisation when the largest gate in existance apart from the Maelstrom connects back to prime. Now there are two ways to get here Eithe Planehopping in usual manner or if you travelfar enough you`ll actually be able to get there without any magic(apart from that needed to get here in the first place) as the megagate is a natural phenomenon, a twoway vortex between prime and Old Alphatia. well it`s an idea but since I don`t have any rulebooks with me to check upon it`s `canonical` accuracy it`s over to you lot to fix itor shoot it dead <;-P ttfn, Paul ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 08:19:56 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I'm sick of this Terari and Elminster subject - its on everything! Let this message be... Anything Else! Sorry you didn`t like the old title. Maybe I should have changed it when I put my tuppence in, but in defence of what I said IMOO and have tried to clarify (maybe you haven`t got that post yet). the actual spell written in a spell book has to be that mages personal shorthand mnemonic for how the spell works according to his own personal reality. As each of us views the universe from diferent perspectives there are ALWAYS differences in how we would try to achieve the same ends. However there IScommon ground. The best example of this is the English language that we`re all using on this board. English English IS different from Canadian english is different from American english etc. but ther is enough commonality for us to communicate (sortof) but let`s take the word fanny it means dirfferent things in various English speaking places doesn`t it. that`s the way I see spellbooks working. The brighter you are the more you can grasp the underlying poetry of creation without needing a painting by numbers approach. I do hope that this has stayed sufficiently on topic not to get me offed but as is said at the start IMOO for all of this let`s not have yet another off topic slanging match!!! <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 10:22:33 -0500 From: "Timothy R. Haney" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Terari vs Elminster: The Return The Return?? Nah, just something I couldn't resist ;> - -- This has been a Galwylin® Production The Tome of Galwylin (http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/) galwylin@airnet.net | ICQ #6755972 | AIM: Galwylin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 10:52:12 -0500 From: "Timothy R. Haney" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I'm sick of this Terari and Elminster subject - its on everything! Let this message be... Anything Else! paul dooley wrote: > > IScommon ground. The best example of this is the English language that > we`re all using on this board. English English IS different from > Canadian english is different from American english etc. but ther is > enough commonality for us to communicate (sortof) but let`s take the > word fanny it means dirfferent things in various English speaking places > doesn`t it. that`s the way I see spellbooks working. The brighter you > are the more you can grasp the underlying poetry of creation without > needing a painting by numbers approach. I do hope that this has stayed I think I see what you're saying. But I still see the language of magic as being basically the same just as the English language is (which is why its all called English). So while a Glantrian wizard will add a touch here or there, an Alphatian wizard (or Karameikan, Thyatian, etc) isn't going to have much problem knowing what he's saying. To a wizard from different speaking nations, magic is the common language. Taking the Glantri habit of making the the spell name impressive, once you get down to the actual spell, its understandable by other wizards, though a bit flowery :) (Now the next question is, why don't Glantri wizards suffer an added casting time for throwing in all that show?) - -- This has been a Galwylin® Production The Tome of Galwylin (http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/) galwylin@airnet.net | ICQ #6755972 | AIM: Galwylin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 18:21:23 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Thyatian Military Hello, Below is a link to a webpage which discusses the military of Thyatis and presents revised statistics for use with War Machine. IMO it is much better than the stuff given in the PWAs. All you fans of Thyatis, be sure to check it out. The link is: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/7211/Thyatis/Military.html The page is owned by James Ruhland at jruhlconob@sprynet.com ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html Join the Mystaran Birthright PBEM at the above website! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 12:58:07 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones << >As a personal aside, I beleive that the Old Ones aren't active. The D&D >Multiverse is their experiment in Quantum relativity, and they only >interdict when something goes horribly wrong. > So that`s why the weren`t paying attention.IIRC the mere observation of events at this level actually alters the event! <;-P >> Perhaps there is a Old One's rule: "No direct actions against immortals on the Prime Dimension." Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 12:37:20 +0200 From: "Pigia" Subject: R: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones >On somebodies website (probably Galwylins, given his opinion) there was >mention of the Forgotten One, which I thought was very cool. I'm new here: is there anybody to tell memore about the Forgotten One? (sorry for my bad English =P ) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 14:28:59 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The use of a WISH In a message dated 7/3/98 7:13:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ezaqwazy@hotmail.com writes: > > Is Claude d'Ambreville, the fallen paladin, still Undead? IIRC Etienne > brought all the victims of Henri`s plot back to life with a WISH. Claude > WAS a victim it`s only his undead status that kept him`alive`. Yes, he does still remain undead after Etienne brings him back. > Also is > Stephen the anglicised version of Etienne? `cos IIRC the head of Amber > family in X2 is Stephen Amber no mention of Etienne anywhere. All of the > others had both versions of their names listed. Yup, Stephen and Etienne are one in the same. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 13:22:26 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - BGPD On Wed, 1 Jul 1998, DM wrote: > Now, my only question is this: since we all know that contructs are obtuse > and only follow one command at a time, how can they handle all the > different order problems that come to happen inside Shraek? I mean, are > they always on patrol with the order: "Stop any turmoil you see in any way" > or remain at the HQ until needed? And in this case, who "activates" them? I > don't remember the magens being so "intelligent", but I might be > mistaking... Am I? Magen have a 9 intelligence, which makes them capable of (IMO) processing lots of information and adapting to new situations. They should be at least as capable as an average human, within the limits of their original programming. Even living statues have something like a 4 or 5, so they should be pretty adaptable too. This sounds like an interesting article- it sort of meshes with some thoughts I've had for a Mystara project; a big comic that I've worked on over the years (it got railroaded when I moved out to CA, and I haven't had a chance to do more than just one page yet). I'll have to check it out. The only problem I would have with it as yet is the location. Blackheart, IMO, shoudln't have anything resembling a police force. The only enforcement agents should be the king's personal guard, and they should only care about the king and his properties. Everything else should be lawless as all heck. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 20:42:03 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic (Was: Terari mets El) At 07.50 03/07/98 +0200, Anias Pasi wrote: > -The Mystaran Magic works in planes (no core nor NoS) Yes, but the NoS is in the Prime Plane. That "Prime" should mean something. IMO the NoS energy radiates from the Prime Plane into the other Planes. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 20:40:30 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones At 13.35 02/07/98 -0500, Timothy R. Haney wrote: >With the >Old Ones hanging around, I'm unsure why mortals would waste their time >messing with the pretenders of power when the Old Ones hold the winning >hand. > Because mortals don't know about the Old Ones. They learn (not much BTW) about the Old Ones only when (and if) they become Immortals and no Immortal is so fool to tell mortals: "Hey, we're not the most powerful being around here, you know. There Old Ones are far more powerful than the Immortals!". >(...) and why they need worshippers at all. I think that this and the existence of Old Ones is there just for game balance. Since in Mystara PCs can become Immortals, the designers of Mystara/D&D introduced superior beings to keep Immortal PCs in control, just like the DM uses Immortals to keep mortal PCs in control. Moreover to prevent Immortal PCs from doing "unpopular" things, such as destroying whole countries and/or planets just to show their powers, there'r a rule that says that an Immortal need worshippers, otherwise he/she will die. In a way it's similar to running a dominion, you cannot make unpopular decisions (e.g. setting high taxes) otherwise people will go away from your dominion, you won't earn any more money and so on... Just my opinion. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 15:08:49 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about B2 >GAZ1 - The Grand Duchy of Karameikos. The gazetteer suggests some >changes to the module and is set around 1000 AC. > Jim Sahlas What changes were suggested ? Were they considered "canon" changes ? Thanks. Later. Jesse. vanquer@softhome.net ICQ. 8004143 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 19:53:38 -0700 From: "Harold \"Wisconsin\" Johnson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - We've got some attention Holy cow! (we say that a lot in Wisconsin!) Two hours later and I've finished reading the 120 postings. I think I'll go watch the X-Files movie to unwind. Boy, have I got a lot of catching up to do! I need to see if I can find my copies of the complete D&D and Mystara product series (probably all back in Lake Geneva). I expect Bruce has a full set and can kick in his two cents worth, but it will take me a while to get back up to speed. Looking forward to communicating with this group in the future. Cheers! (another thing we get a lot of practice saying in Wisconsin) Harold *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 19:58:11 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - We've got some attention >Holy cow! (we say that a lot in Wisconsin!) Two hours later and I've >finished reading the 120 postings. I think I'll go watch the X-Files movie >to unwind. > Boy, have I got a lot of catching up to do! I need to see if I can find my >copies of the complete D&D and Mystara product series (probably all back in >Lake Geneva). I expect Bruce has a full set and can kick in his two cents >worth, but it will take me a while to get back up to speed. > Looking forward to communicating with this group in the future. Cheers! >(another thing we get a lot of practice saying in Wisconsin) >Harold Don't worry about it, I felt the same way when I got on this list about a month or two ago. What's phenomenal is that there are only 200 people on it. Later. Jesse. vanquer@softhome.net ICQ. 8004143 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 23:20:51 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about B2 At 03:08 PM 7/3/98 -0700, Jesse LaBranche wrote: >>GAZ1 - The Grand Duchy of Karameikos. The gazetteer suggests some >>changes to the module and is set around 1000 AC. >> Jim Sahlas > >What changes were suggested ? Were they considered "canon" changes ? I think pretty much the ones I mentioned in that private message...lose the town and place it at Castellan Keep. Methinks the town is removed because of the extreme wilderness of the area... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 23:29:12 EDT From: Dragon3125@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - We've got some attention 201 =) I joined it 3 or 4 days ago =) Also a Jesse *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 20:20:14 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about B2 >>What changes were suggested ? Were they considered "canon" changes ? >I think pretty much the ones I mentioned in that private message...lose the >town and place it at Castellan Keep. >Methinks the town is removed because of the extreme wilderness of the >area... Thank you. Jesse. vanquer@softhome.net ICQ. 8004143 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 07:13:36 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - We've got some attention > What's phenomenal is that there are only 200 people on it. > >Later. > No! What`s phenomenal is that the realms list is only just twice our size! Not bad for an OOP setting compared to the mainstay of AD&D. <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 11:10:45 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - BGPD << The only problem I would have with it as yet is the location. Blackheart, IMO, shoudln't have anything resembling a police force. The only enforcement agents should be the king's personal guard, and they should only care about the king and his properties. Everything else should be lawless as all heck. >> I was speaking about Shraek only. IMO the king of Blackheart don't want anything really disturbing in the capital. The BGPD wouldn't work outside the city. OTOH it's true that with a construct force unfortunate things may occur, and Shraek was the only place in Alphatia where this constabulary is possible. A final note: After a study of the Hollow World Boxed Set I have to admit that the BGPD cannot survive the transition as all necessary spells don't work in the HW. At least the construction of new constructs would be impossible. I think we should discuss it how would that effect Alphatia. All living statues which decorate the wall in Haven are now only beautiful but lifeless ones. One more reason to remove the spell restrictions or bring back Alphatia back to the Outer World... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #466 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Sunday, July 5 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 467 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - We've got some attention Re: [MYSTARA] - BGPD Re: [MYSTARA] - BGPD Re: [MYSTARA] - We've got some attention [MYSTARA] - And Re: [MYSTARA] - And Re: [MYSTARA] - And Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic [MYSTARA] - Magic on the Floationg Continent of Alphatia [MYSTARA] - The Quest of Sir Alexius Re: [MYSTARA] - BGPD Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 09:58:31 -0700 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - We've got some attention First off, a hearty "WELCOME!" to you Harold. It's nice to have a 'real live' TSR person here again. :-) We've been going for quite a while without the resources of someone actually working for the company and are glad for the opportunity of direct contact again. At 07:53 PM 7/3/98 -0700, Harold \"Wisconsin\" Johnson wrote: >Holy cow! (we say that a lot in Wisconsin!) Two hours later and I've >finished reading the 120 postings. I think I'll go watch the X-Files movie >to unwind. Watch the X-Files movie to /unwind/? You are an interesting one... > Boy, have I got a lot of catching up to do! I need to see if I can find >my copies of the complete D&D and Mystara product series (probably all back >in Lake Geneva). Yes, for the MML its good to have an up-to-date grasp of as much of the TSR-developed material as possible. Many members of this list enjoy working with the 'official' stuff and trying to resolve the various contradictions that crept into it. Others enjoy expanding on it in various directions, filling in the 'gaps' they see in the 'official' stuff or developing that stuff further into the future. Having mentioned that, you might well be interested in poking around the various web sites the stuff that many people here have developed. That would give you a good idea of what we've all been up to over here while TSR turned a blind eye on our favourite piece of their pie. ;-) Some of the stuff is really superb and has helped many Mystara-Fans to develop their campaigns further despite it's current 'cancelled' state. The best place to start is probably Shawn Stanley's site which is the 'official' archive site for the MML -- he stores all the 'interesting' stuff that rolls through the MML for future reference. (unlike the MPGN archives which just store the digests with all the mish-mash of discussion and whatnot which may or may not be of any interest). Shawn's site is at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 >I expect Bruce has a full set and can kick in his two cents >worth, but it will take me a while to get back up to speed. It /was/ too bad that Bruce couldn't stay with the fold when WotC bought out TSR and moved it to the West Coast 'cause Mystara lost her 'direct' champion. But, he is still around and about and we hear from him on occation. He's particularily active on the (abysmally slow and cantankerous) TSR Mystara Message Board (or the MMB as we like to call it). The MMB has a slightly different flavour from the MML, if you'll be tagging in there fromt time to time. We tend to be more interested in unique ideas and developments than we are in meshing together with the TSR established history and time-lines. Hopefully we'll see you over there too. :-) > Looking forward to communicating with this group in the future. Cheers! >(another thing we get a lot of practice saying in Wisconsin) As an aside, someone else said we had 200 members. According to a review of the List and Digest memberships I just did (Saturday, July 4, at 9:30am PST -- Independance Day for all you 'Mericins out thar...) There are 171 members on the List itself and 53 members on the digest, making a grand total of 224 members (baring any duplications). What I find so interesting is the incredible international flavour if this list. As well as your 'standard North American Types' (USA and Canada <-- me) there are a number of other nationalities including Germans, Italians, Swedes, Norweigans, French, Spanish, and many others. I don't know what the mailing list for other worlds are like in that respect, but I do think that the poly-glot nature of Mystara can be well appreciated by members with other nationalities. Anyway, welcome, again, to our little piece of the internet. We hope you enjoy your stay with us. :-) Jenni - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- The unofficial Mom of the MML ;-) - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs strawberry@jamm.com <==> http://www.jamm.com/ <------------------------------------------------------------------> God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. Then God started to think: "I should create things *I* like!" And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 15:18:30 PDT From: "Spencer Graham" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - BGPD >A final note: After a study of the Hollow World Boxed Set >I have to admit that the BGPD cannot survive the transition >as all necessary spells don't work in the HW. At least the >construction of new constructs would be impossible. > >I think we should discuss it how would that effect Alphatia. >All living statues which decorate the wall in Haven are now >only beautiful but lifeless ones. One more reason to remove >the spell restrictions or bring back Alphatia back to the >Outer World... Of course since high magic is so intrinsic to the nature of Alphatian society, and the Zookeepers write the HW rules, they could simply let the high magic work on the Alphatian floating continent, but not elsewhere in HW. In essence, the moment you move one millimeter past the edge of the floating continent, all the normal HW rules concerning disallowed spells come into play. Thoughts? Spencer ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 22:31:00 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - BGPD In a message dated 98-07-04 18:31:46 EDT, eldaah@hotmail.com writes: > Of course since high magic is so intrinsic to the nature of Alphatian > society, and the Zookeepers write the HW rules, they could simply let > the high magic work on the Alphatian floating continent, but not > elsewhere in HW. In essence, the moment you move one millimeter past the > edge of the floating continent, all the normal HW rules concerning > disallowed spells come into play. Thoughts? I would assume that the spells necessary to create golems for the BGPD became a "lost art" as soon as Alphatia was moved to the Hollow World - -- remember that the allowable spells were liberalized considerably at that time. Given that Alphatia probably has a fairly low rate of violent crime (especially if the crime in question is murdering police officer constructs), it could be quite a while before the inability to make more constructs for the BGPD becomes a noticeable problem. However, the inability to cast the spells needed to create constructs should have no effect on any existing magical constructs. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 21:46:48 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - We've got some attention >> What's phenomenal is that there are only 200 people on it. >>Later. >No! What`s phenomenal is that the realms list is only just twice our >size! Not bad for an OOP setting compared to the mainstay of AD&D. ><;-P Last time I checked, the Realms had over 700 people on the list. I guess I should rephrase my comment however :-) What's phenomenal is that there are only 200 people on it, and we've got as many/more posts than the Realms or Ravenloft. Both of which are mainstream WotC settings. Also, note that RL only has 250 people last time I checked. That means that we're doing really well for a "dead" setting :-) Later. Jesse. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 02:59:10 -0500 From: DJ Subject: [MYSTARA] - And And Gaining new list members all the time. BTW, Hi. Thought I'd say hello, since I'm new to the list. DJ - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- DJ onyx@fwb.gulf.net Akuna Matata! - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 01:55:25 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - And > And Gaining new list members all the time. > BTW, Hi. Thought I'd say hello, since I'm new to the list. > DJ Hello DJ, Welcome to Mystara ! Later. Jesse. vanquer@softhome.net ICQ. 8004143 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 19:29:15 +1000 From: stan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - And At 02:59 05 07 98 -0500, DJ wrote: > > And Gaining new list members all the time. > > BTW, Hi. Thought I'd say hello, since I'm new to the list. Hey DJ Welcome to the list, I hope you enjoy the discussions here. stan http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 13:17:15 +0200 (EET DST) From: Anias Pasi Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic > At 07.50 03/07/98 +0200, Anias Pasi wrote: > > -The Mystaran Magic works in planes (no core nor NoS) Fabrizio paoli answered: > Yes, but the NoS is in the Prime Plane. That "Prime" should mean something. > IMO the NoS energy radiates from the Prime Plane into the other Planes. well, Fabrizio. Who do You think gave Mystara the name Prime Plane? Most likely the Mystarans themselves. There is no mention of it being anything special, except for the facts that the different spheres are here in excact amounts, and that Mystara happens to produce a bit more immortals than the average for a similar amount of population in any plane. And the fact that the locations of other planes are described in such manner that prime seems to be in the middle doesn't count, as on could make the map an other way too. But ofcource if you want to see it in that matter, suit yourself. Anyway, this did cause a amusing flash-back to a mail, long time ago, about the Mystaran oriental, where I propoesd the name central-prime... Pasi - -- X Pasi Anias X p.03 - 2533536 X \\|// X X Sammonkatu 28 A 18 X a122286@proffa X (o o) X X 33540 Tampere X .cc.tut.fi X o000--(_)--000o X *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 11:02:55 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Magic on the Floationg Continent of Alphatia << Of course since high magic is so intrinsic to the nature of Alphatian society, and the Zookeepers write the HW rules, they could simply let the high magic work on the Alphatian floating continent, but not elsewhere in HW. In essence, the moment you move one millimeter past the edge of the floating continent, all the normal HW rules concerning disallowed spells come into play. Thoughts? >> This would of course mean that INT/WIS 18 spellcasters of the appropiate high levels could cast wishes and increase the INT/WIS to 16, another problem solved. What's the opinion of the rest of the MML? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 11:02:58 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Quest of Sir Alexius The Quest of Sir Alexius written by Glen Sprigg Now updated on my homepage http://members.aol.com/JamugaKhan Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 12:38:37 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - BGPD Spencer wrote: >Of course since high magic is so intrinsic to the nature of Alphatian >society, and the Zookeepers write the HW rules, they could simply let >the high magic work on the Alphatian floating continent, but not >elsewhere in HW. In essence, the moment you move one millimeter past the >edge of the floating continent, all the normal HW rules concerning >disallowed spells come into play. Thoughts? This works for me. Easy to understand, and it allows the unique character of Alphatia to be preserved (let's face it, high magic is an intrinsic part of Alphatian culture). Mind you, I'm with Jamuga on one point - moving it back to the surface world would be even better! :-) Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 21:20:36 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic At 13.17 05/07/98 +0200, Anias Pasi wrote: >Fabrizio paoli answered: >> Yes, but the NoS is in the Prime Plane. That "Prime" should mean something. >> IMO the NoS energy radiates from the Prime Plane into the other Planes. > >well, Fabrizio. Who do You think gave Mystara the name Prime Plane? >Most likely the Mystarans themselves. :-) I knew you would have answered like that ;-) Obviously in the RC (and other Mystaran accessories) we're given a Mystaro-centric view of the Multiverse, but at least for the Inner Planes the "Prime Plane" is really the central important one. >There is no mention of it being >anything special, except for the facts that the different spheres are >here in excact amounts, and that Mystara happens to produce a bit more >immortals than the average for a similar amount of population in any >plane. I'm not sure about the latter. We don't know anything about Immortals from the Elemental Planes, but there should certainly be some. >And the fact that the locations of other planes are described >in such manner that prime seems to be in the middle doesn't count, >as on could make the map an other way too. Yes, you can easily center the map on an outer plane, but it would look odd to center it on another Inner Plane, because it won't be symmetrical. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #467 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, July 6 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 468 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic on the Floationg Continent of Alphatia Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatian Military Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatian Military Re: [MYSTARA] - BGPD [MYSTARA] - First (not exactly) Blood [MYSTARA] - EXTRA EXTRA! Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic Re: [MYSTARA] - EXTRA EXTRA! [MYSTARA] - Magic Re: [MYSTARA] - EXTRA EXTRA! Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic Re: [MYSTARA] - BGPD Re: [MYSTARA] - We've got some attention Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic on the Floationg Continent of Alphatia Re: [MYSTARA] - BGPD Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatian Military Re: [MYSTARA] - BGPD Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic [MYSTARA] - Loss of Addresses Re: [MYSTARA] - First (not exactly) Blood Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatian Military Re: [MYSTARA] - And ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 22:44:25 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic >I knew you would have answered like that ;-) >Obviously in the RC (and other Mystaran accessories) we're given a >Mystaro-centric view of the Multiverse, but at least for the Inner Planes >the "Prime Plane" is really the central important one. Well, speaking for AD+D, the Prime is the most "important" plane really. The Inner Planes are a reflection of substance in all its forms (air, earth, fire, water, and all the combinations of them). The Outer Planes are a reflection of spirit in all its forms (the essences of the alignments). The Prime Plane is the perfect melding of substance and spirit - Life. (Or so the Chronomancer book would have you believe :) Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 22:51:30 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic on the Floationg Continent of Alphatia >This would of course mean that INT/WIS 18 spellcasters of the >appropiate high levels could cast wishes and increase the >INT/WIS to 16, another problem solved. What's the opinion >of the rest of the MML? My opinion on Wish is that I very much like the AD+D limitations on it to prevent that degree of munchkinism (I mean!!! PCs would get to do this stuff if you allow that sort of thing! Not in my campaign!). The caster ages 5 years per 100 years of regular lifespan whenever casting a wish (And I think it takes 10 wishes to move an attribute from 16 to 17, but I could be wrong on that one). Potions of longevity arent very good either - they extend your lifespan, they dont make you younger (elixirs of youth do that, and they only knock off a couple of years). So you will be very old, for a very long time... And they backfire if overused as well. So aging isnt to be taken lightly. Also, given the previous debate on the power of magic, not all Alphatians would actually have wish in their spellbooks - given the number of 9th level spells, only about half would. And of those half, perhaps only half of those have the required intelligence. And of those - who would feel public spirited enough to use their life up in helping out others? Few mages would be so nationally minded, Alphatian or not. If they were that publically aware - I revert to my original question, of why all these mages didnt obliterate Thyatis in the many wars? As they didnt, I assume they are not - so no wishes... Cheerz ROB (Who knows full well that there is a priest spell in AD+D that reverses magical aging, so the Alphatians could technically have wish spells on tap.) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 22:55:54 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatian Military >Below is a link to a webpage which discusses the military of Thyatis and >presents revised statistics for use with War Machine. IMO it is much better >than the stuff given in the PWAs. All you fans of Thyatis, be sure to check >it out. The link is: I'm really slack, I know, but I have only just checked it out. Brilliant, loved every bit of it. I always was a Thyatis fan... Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 17:16:32 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatian Military > > > I'm really slack, I know, but I have only just checked it out. Brilliant, > loved every bit of it. I always was a Thyatis fan... > I'm the actual physical author of that, and I just wanted to say I appreciate the feedback (now, time for some criticism, I'm sure). Also, I just joined the MML. As far as the Thyatian Military stuff goes, it's unfinished (I hope to complete that portion this week; but any feedback/advice/etc. would be nice). When it *is* finished you'll notice that the total strength (land, naval, and elite forces) under my "new modle Thyatian Army" is significantly less than the "full strength" OOB for the PWA Thyatian Armies. But the quality is better, which I think is more appropriate. It always completly and utterly vexed me that the PWA Thyatian armies were basically the "Red Arrow" units, and there were no sign of Cavalry (I.E. Kerendan), aerial forces (I.E. Retebius Air Fleet), and they were completly incapable , in war mach. terms, in opposing the force TSR created for Alphatia with the army they were given (but a more extensive rant on that topic is on the webpage, so I'll stop my screed on that now). I have a whole bunch of other Thyatis-related stuff that I eventually hope to put on webpages (it's all in various scattered locations, and all in "campaign notes" form, so it needs to be cleaned up before I can code it. . .) At any rate, if anyone is interested at some point it should be up. I'll post the URLs when/if I code anything. And I thought I was the only "fan" of Thyatis that existed; most folks seem to adore Alphatia (like TSR obviously did, giving them both the Hollow World & the Known World to dominate, while the "Immortals" frown on anyone else being so hegemonic), which you can tell from the PWAs and from the online continuations of the timeline (but now I'm ranting again. . . ) But at least their is Rob and I. 8-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 00:49:14 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - BGPD In a message dated 98-07-05 12:54:58 EDT, geoff gander write: << >Of course since high magic is so intrinsic to the nature of Alphatian >society, and the Zookeepers write the HW rules, they could simply let >the high magic work on the Alphatian floating continent, but not >elsewhere in HW. In essence, the moment you move one millimeter past the >edge of the floating continent, all the normal HW rules concerning >disallowed spells come into play. Thoughts?>> spencer This works for me. Easy to understand, and it allows the unique character of Alphatia to be preserved (let's face it, high magic is an intrinsic part of Alphatian culture). Mind you, I'm with Jamuga on one point - moving it back to the surface world would be even better! :-) >> magic is indeed the key symbol of alphatia. the spell of preservation is actually a paradox. it preserves while numbing magical ability. this worked prior to alphatia appearing in hw. but it actually contradicts itself in alphatia's case. i am glad my game campaign never reached the woti period. therefore i do not have to worry about the sinking as of yet. still a return to the surface world would be nice for my post wrath setting ,material. but how? could explain it as a dream...like they did for the tv show Dallas. you know when bobby ewing got shot, then they brought him back. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 02:49:21 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: [MYSTARA] - First (not exactly) Blood Hello everyone. I was on this list a long time ago, had to leave, and have now returned. For those of you who might remember (I seem to recall Diego), I was nhudson, and I wrote a collection of (hopefully) intelligent articles on meks and oards, and consider, if I do say so myself, them to be definitive. I'm signed up a few days ago, but haven't finished reading the posts until now. I'm glad to be back, and will enjoy butting heads with whomever enjoys being proved wrong :). ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 03:10:40 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: [MYSTARA] - EXTRA EXTRA! Terari eats Elminster in Ochalean golem cannibalistic orgy on the Adri Varma Plateau!!! Just a few tidbits I've ruminated over the past several threads... Sure, Elminster decides to meet one of Mystara's sane mages. I would much rather see an interview with Bonny Prince Brannart McGregor (did I mention Scotland is the greatest country in any dimension). I've always wondered would an undead Scottish wizard would sound like. Yes, he's not a mage, but if Elminster wants a bragging contest, why not go head-to-head with the most accomplished liar alive? Of course, The Master! (Hule also rocks; no pathetic Sind or brain-dead Darokin supporters need respond :)) A brief look through the history of cannibalism reveals that it is either: 1. ceremonial or 2. extreme necessity. In those cultures that practiced cannibalism, it was not done to supplement food supplies, nor done in the event a stranger just happen to show up. To the Maya, human sacrifice was a tremendous honor (there is disagreement over this in anthropological circles, but the late Joseph Campbell backs me up on this, and The Hero with a Thousand Faces should be required reading for every DM), and only performed on those allies and enemies who had proven themselves. Priests, kings, and heros were the only likely individuals to commit such cannibalism. The earlier mention of eating brains as a power source does have a cultural basis in these ceremonies, but it was far more likely to instead eat, say, the heart of a bear. During the Thirty Years' War in Germany, cannibalism (more appropriately necrophagy) was officialy condoned, along with polygamy, to combat the massive depopulation. In this case, human flesh becomes a food source, but does not acquire any cultural enshinrement, and will most likely be dropped after the extenuating circumstances. Of course, none of these apply to individual cannibals. In my campaign, I actually allow the transfer of some powers through ritual cannibalism. This provides a uniquely diabolical motive for some villians, and a severe moral dilemma for my players. "One Race, One Empire, One Time" -Qartanaq ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 13:14:57 +0200 (EET DST) From: Anias Pasi Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic Fabrizio: > >I knew you would have answered like that ;-) > >Obviously in the RC (and other Mystaran accessories) we're given a > >Mystaro-centric view of the Multiverse, but at least for the Inner Planes > >the "Prime Plane" is really the central important one. So it is. But It is not said that there are not other systems similar to the Mystara-Astral ball. Actually there are notes about other planes having planes inside them. In them the inner must be the most important. Or is it the Outer? Maybe the Astral should be the most important... :) Well now. As you said I did have to answer like that :) What can one do to oneself. And about the number of New initiates to immortallhood, It is really said somewhere that Mystara produces more immortals than its share. I think it was in the WoTI... ROB: > Well, speaking for AD+D, the Prime is the most "important" plane really. > The Inner Planes are a reflection of substance in all its forms (air, earth, > fire, water, and all the combinations of them). The Outer Planes are a > reflection of spirit in all its forms (the essences of the alignments). The > Prime Plane is the perfect melding of substance and spirit - Life. Yes, but it doesn't really count here. This is Mystara, not generic AD&D. We have a system of Our own. (This is D&D You know ;-) Pasi - -- X Pasi Anias X p.03 - 2533536 X \\|// X X Sammonkatu 28 A 18 X a122286@proffa X (o o) X X 33540 Tampere X .cc.tut.fi X o000--(_)--000o X *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 11:36:41 +0000 (GMT) From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - EXTRA EXTRA! >(did I mention Scotland is the greatest country in any dimension). Well, obviously :) > I've always wondered would an undead Scottish wizard would sound like. When I first played a Scottish NPC I put on a stage scots accent. Half way through the adventure the players went "Wait a minute, you're putting on a scottish accent! Just speak normally!" Harrumph. I never say it's a braw bricht moonlicht nicht irl, but I sure want McAlister to say it :) Ah stereotypes, you gotta love em :) gordon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 03:48:09 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Magic Just like to opinion (yes, it's now a verb) on the latest ruminations on the nature of magic on Mystara. I disagree with the concept of wild Blackmoor mages. I am favoured enough :) to own DA3, among others, and the only unusual aspect of Blackmoor magic is its low level: the most powerful mage in Blackmoor is Robert the Bald, who is only 19th level oD&D, which makes him about 16? or so AD&D. Basically, no 9th-level spells. Interestingly enough, Robert only has an intelligence of 16, so he wouldn't be able to cast wish were he of high enough level. Since this was a long time ago, the lack of advanced spells is understandable (for reasons my essay on technology and magic goes into in more depth, but there is probably a lack of interest, so nevermind). There is no evidence, though, that Robert's spells are "wild" or "unfinished". Robert knows full well of the Comeback Inn, and has most likely travelled to the "future" (present). Since his spells are the exact same as the other Blackmoor mages, and mages from the "future", one can only conclude that magic was operating just fine before the Nucleus of the Spheres was created. This, if I have read the Poor Wizard's Almanac correctly, is also before the world was hollowed out. Of course, the World Shield was probably there before, but in the geometric center. According to the PWA, the World Shield's most important function is providing enough mass for Mystara to generate an Earth-like gravity. An interesting point arises, though. In th introduction to DA3, there is a narrative explaining what the crew of the Beagle thought of this new planet. They were amazed by the abilities of the locals, and originally thought that they were parapsycholgical talents (which indicates to me that the aliens were familiar with psionics, and that any psionics on Mystara are probably a legacy from the "gods"); they later found that "they were related to a strange energy field permeating the planet...." (copied from City of the Gods, copyright 1987 TSR, Inc. All rights reserved Quoted for research purposes only) So it seems as though magic on Mystara is a product of this energy field. In reality, we know that the Earth's magnetic field is a product of magma and plate movement in the Earth. If magic is considered a force, like electro-magnetism, then it could be produced by underground currents, like magnetism. If this were so, then wouldn't this preclude magic working anywhere else in the Mystara Multiverse? Not quite. Each plane can, according to Wrath of the Immortals, have its own unique affect on magic. It would not be unreasonable to assume that other planes have different origins for magical energy. But what of other planets, besides Mystara, in the Prime? I interpret WotI to mean that, unlike Manual of the Planes, Mystara has only one Prime. Thus, any Prime planet that didn't have a World Shield wouldn't have magic. I don't think that this is a problem. The only other canon planet that I know of is Aelos, which has magic. If we assume Aelos has a World Shield, this fits in well with what has been presented earlier. Mystara's moons either have their own World Shields or use Mystara's. Whichever planet(s)the Galactic Federation reside(s) on, they apparently lack a World Shield, and thus magic (explaining the crew's wonderment). The only question I see is: if a mage from Mystara were to travel to the Federation homelands, would s/he still be able to cast spells? Does a World Shield's energy travel with a mage, or is s/he stranded, a stranger in a strange land... Sorry about the length. Everybody grok that? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 13:23:45 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - EXTRA EXTRA! - - >(did I mention Scotland is the greatest country in any dimension). >Well, obviously :) Scotland has a claim to fame, its true... > I've always wondered would an undead Scottish wizard would sound like. >When I first played a Scottish NPC I put on a stage scots accent. >Half way through the adventure the players went "Wait a minute, >you're putting on a scottish accent! Just speak normally!" Harrumph. >I never say it's a braw bricht moonlicht nicht irl, but I sure want >McAlister to say it :) >Ah stereotypes, you gotta love em :) Could be worse - for a joke I had Begbie turn up in a bar brawl, with weapon proficiencies in stuff like Ale Tankard and Pool Cue... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 13:21:31 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic >> Well, speaking for AD+D, the Prime is the most "important" plane really. >> The Inner Planes are a reflection of substance in all its forms (air, earth, >> fire, water, and all the combinations of them). The Outer Planes are a >> reflection of spirit in all its forms (the essences of the alignments). The >> Prime Plane is the perfect melding of substance and spirit - Life. > >Yes, but it doesn't really count here. This is Mystara, not generic AD&D. >We have a system of Our own. (This is D&D You know ;-) Ah yes, but I am an advocate of AD+D... (Some might say a Devils Advocate... :) The structure of the planes in AD+D is far better than D+D, IMHO. After all, in D+D they were a small tack on to the Companion, Master and Immortals sets. AD+D has loads of stuff on cosmology (if you can be bothered to buy it all ,of course :) Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 06:21:59 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - BGPD >Of course since high magic is so intrinsic to the nature of Alphatian >society, and the Zookeepers write the HW rules, they could simply let >the high magic work on the Alphatian floating continent, but not >elsewhere in HW. In essence, the moment you move one millimeter past the >edge of the floating continent, all the normal HW rules concerning >disallowed spells come into play. Thoughts? > Well IIRC the 4 HW adventures ALL break the rules in some way as far as this goes, and since we`re dealing with Immortal involvement I personally seee no problem with your idea. However I don`t have any rules with me so what effect if any will there be upon Alphatian Aeronavy, but still like the idea. <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 06:26:45 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - We've got some attention >Last time I checked, the Realms had over 700 people on the list. OOPS! I`m going to have to give my beancounter a stern talking to.She said FR is half baked so need two fora whole hence the numerical inaccuracy. <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 06:30:10 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic . And the fact that the locations of other planes are described >in such manner that prime seems to be in the middle doesn't count, >as on could make the map an other way too. > In fact IIRC WotI gave the Astral as the base plane. Location of all other planes was given in relation to that. <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 06:34:39 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic on the Floationg Continent of Alphatia >This would of course mean that INT/WIS 18 spellcasters of the >appropiate high levels could cast wishes and increase the >INT/WIS to 16, another problem solved. What's the opinion >of the rest of the MML? > WHY? What would it gain them? this is sort of similar to my old `Cure for Jagger` stint. BTW whatever happened to that? Did he get his arm back or what? c`mon almanacers don`t leave me in suspenders. <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 06:38:43 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - BGPD >Mind you, I'm with Jamuga on one point - moving it back to the surface >world would be even better! :-) > I`ve gotta disagree with that. CASE on surface is good enough! Imagine if Broderic was to get his hands on the FULL Alphatian army and navy! We`ve only just recovered from the last great war! <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 06:44:30 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic >Prime Plane is the perfect melding of substance and spirit - Life. > >(Or so the Chronomancer book would have you believe :) > You believe them? Lets get real here WHICH prime? Prime +1 hour/ min/ sec/eon? Those people ARE crazy. What about all those living in the socalled `Nightmare Dimension`? They definately dont put your prime at the centre of the Mystaraverse. <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 06:55:14 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatian Military > And I thought I was the only "fan" of Thyatis that existed; most folks >seem to adore Alphatia (like TSR obviously did, giving them both the Hollow >World & the Known World to dominate, while the "Immortals" frown on anyone >else being so hegemonic), which you can tell from the PWAs and from the >online continuations of the timeline (but now I'm ranting again. . . ) > But at least their is Rob and I. 8-) > I too like Thyatis. I personally make it more eastern empire (can`t spell Byzantine) than is given and find that my players want to keep away because it`s scary the politics are even worse(better depending on point of view) than those of Glantri. In fact IMC just to score a few political points a cleric of Halav let out the fact that Thincol had been cursed by Vanya for trying to keep the empire alive during WotI. OTOH I like ALL Mystara so anything done to keep the spirit alive is good in my book. If I don`t like it I`ll tweak it until I do. <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 07:00:14 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - BGPD > >i am glad my game campaign never reached the woti period. therefore i do not >have to worry about the sinking as of yet. still a return to the surface world >would be nice for my post wrath setting ,material. but how? could explain it >as a dream...like they did for the tv show Dallas. you know when bobby ewing >got shot, then they brought him back. > How about the Immortal Alphatia creating an artifact that would allow transportbetween both empires? If the size of the transportees was limited, so no mass inport/ export of troops. but adventure parties are ok then you wouldn`t have to change much realy or would you? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 07:13:40 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic >The structure of the planes in AD+D is far better than D+D, IMHO. After >all, in D+D they were a small tack on to the Companion, Master and Immortals >sets. AD+D has loads of stuff on cosmology (if you can be bothered to buy >it all ,of course :) > Sorry but your WRONG WRONG WRONG. the OD&D gold box did more in 1985ish than you could comprehend! Rather than the BORING BORING BORING wheel for out and sphere for in we have an evolving Macrosphere of unlimited possibility. Sort of like when Hubble telescope looked into `EMPTY` space and found all those `new` galaxies. BOY did that cut down on the dark matter needed in the universe. you`ve got the beastlands we`ve got a pentaspatial terraplane connected to a monospatial attoplane connected to etc. OD&D can contain ALL of the planar stuff for AD&D without it even being worth notice. Try the reverse and AD&D it go BOOM `cos you can`t get a quart in a pint pot! <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 07:18:12 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Loss of Addresses To all those with whom I`ve been in personal contact, a plea for help. HOTMAIL has somehow lost my entire address file. If i`ve mailed you direct for ANY reason please remail me with the gist of the discussion so I can put you back on my address list! ttfn, Paul ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 16:31:37 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - First (not exactly) Blood At 02.49 06/07/98 PDT, you wrote: > Hello everyone. I was on this list a long time ago, had to leave, >and have now returned. For those of you who might remember (I seem to >recall Diego), I was nhudson, and I wrote a collection of (hopefully) >intelligent articles on meks and oards, and consider, if I do say so >myself, them to be definitive. Hi Nicholas and welcome back! I DO remember you and i'm glad to tell you i found your topics very interesting (so interesting that i've made a little fan-fic story about our conversation on the Origins of Mek... try look in my site at this URL: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mekdisc.html) > I'm signed up a few days ago, but haven't finished reading the >posts until now. I'm glad to be back, and will enjoy butting heads with >whomever enjoys being proved wrong :). You're welcome. It seems we're getting the deserved attention now (Hi Mr. Johnson! :)), so you have returned in the right moment :) c'ya! DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 09:40:10 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatian Military > > > I too like Thyatis. I personally make it more eastern empire (can`t > spell Byzantine) than is given and find that my players want to keep > away because it`s scary the politics are even worse(better depending on > point of view) than those of Glantri. > I always refer to it as the Roman, Eastern Roman, or Later Roman Empire myself, and put ("Byzantine") in quotes. . . Most of my own personal innovations reflect "updating" to midieval Roman Empire ("Byzantine") forms (gov, society, religion). Of course, I always have to mention Turtledove's "Videssos" books; IMO, any RPG player ought to look at them. Also, as far as how I personally play/have played Thyatis, Thyatians are more "crafty" than "treacherous" (though, like any nation, including the much beloved Karameikos & Alphatia, it has it's fair share of evil folks doing evil). Such crafty intelligence is often. . ."re-interpreted" by outsiders as "betrayal", but we're talking people who's idea of subtlety is using a long sword rather than a battle axe. IMO, that is very historical, too, because if anyone was the betrayers, historically, it was the normans, franks, & venetians. . . . *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 16:52:33 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - And At 01.55 05/07/98 -0700, DJ wrote: >> And Gaining new list members all the time. >> BTW, Hi. Thought I'd say hello, since I'm new to the list. And Hi to you and to all the new listmembers that have not spoken their presence aloud yet. And why is it that all these new people come in summer? You were supposed to go abroad or to the beach or to the mountains and relax and have fun... So what are you doing here?... Oh, man! Now i've got it: you're having fun! :) And BTW, for all the newcomers, in this URL you can find the Mystara FAQ: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystfaq.html And here you have the MML FAQ: http://www.lesbois.com/members/malacoda/mmlfaq.htm And that's all for now, folks! :) DM (who's being less and less active on the list mainly because i'm very very active playing in the RW -three times a week!- That's summer...) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #468 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, July 6 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 469 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - EXTRA EXTRA! Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic Re: [MYSTARA] - First (not exactly) Blood Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis, Mystara, and the tone of the World Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic Re: [MYSTARA] - And Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatian Military Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis, Mystara, and the tone of the World Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatian Military Re: [MYSTARA] - BGPD Re: [MYSTARA] - Agrandizing Alphatia (as if it needs agrandizement) Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis, Mystara, and the tone of the World Re: [MYSTARA] - BGPD Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic Re: [MYSTARA] - EXTRA EXTRA! Re: [MYSTARA] - BGPD ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 16:57:58 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - EXTRA EXTRA! At 13.23 06/07/98 +0100, Rob wrote: >>Ah stereotypes, you gotta love em :) > >Could be worse - for a joke I had Begbie turn up in a bar brawl, with weapon >proficiencies in stuff like Ale Tankard and Pool Cue... Eh eh! well, IMC Ierendi IS the land of stereotypes... in the sense that every movie or telefilm character of RW can be found in Ierendi... For example, last time my players were dining at the Blue Dolphin Pub when a threatening looking man donning a dark suit of armor entered the place and after scanning around, he asked at the female PC: "Are you Sarah?" She froze on the chair and answered she wasn't.... It turned out our Terminator was in the wrong pub, so after excusing himself, he went out... :) My game is full of these things... and we love it this way! DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 11:05:48 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic Dear Paul, Thank you for responding so vehemently in support of the gold box. I think you and I are fairly alone in our adoration of that symphony of math and magic. I agree, it is exciting and original. I am not even a mathematical person myself. I hate math. But I love the way the original Immortal rules so elegantly blended the old characters into a new system. I think that system, in fact, is the very beginning of new possibilities for Mystara itself... [Nothing new follows this!] paul dooley wrote: > >The structure of the planes in AD+D is far better than D+D, IMHO. > After > >all, in D+D they were a small tack on to the Companion, Master and > Immortals > >sets. AD+D has loads of stuff on cosmology (if you can be bothered to > buy > >it all ,of course :) > > > Sorry but your WRONG WRONG WRONG. the OD&D gold box did more in 1985ish > than you could comprehend! Rather than the BORING BORING BORING wheel > for out and sphere for in we have an evolving Macrosphere of unlimited > possibility. Sort of like when Hubble telescope looked into `EMPTY` > space and found all those `new` galaxies. BOY did that cut down on the > dark matter needed in the universe. you`ve got the beastlands we`ve got > a pentaspatial terraplane connected to a monospatial attoplane connected > to etc. OD&D can contain ALL of the planar stuff for AD&D without it > even being worth notice. Try the reverse and AD&D it go BOOM `cos you > can`t get a quart in a pint pot! <;-P > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 08:05:04 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - First (not exactly) Blood >Hi Nicholas and welcome back! > >I DO remember you and i'm glad to tell you i found your topics very >interesting (so interesting that i've made a little fan-fic story about our >conversation on the Origins of Mek... try look in my site at this URL: >http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mekdisc.html) Wow, I was actually considered interesting enough to be quoted! Fictionalized! Even given credit! Thanks DM. Let me guess, I was supposed to be uh... :) >You're welcome. It seems we're getting the deserved attention now (Hi Mr. >Johnson! :)), so you have returned in the right moment :) Interestingly enough, the very first email I read was by a rather inflamnatory chap by the name of Pierre. Well, ahem. "In the beginning, there was darkness. But before there was darkness, there was Frog." -St. Stephen ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 10:06:27 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis, Mystara, and the tone of the World > OTOH I like ALL Mystara so anything done to keep the spirit alive is > good in my book. If I don`t like it I`ll tweak it until I do. <;-P > Btw, lest anyone get the wrong impression, I enjoy all Mystara, too; the only thing I dislike is the tendancy to sometimes steriotype realms as all good (Karameikos, Darokin, and for some reason most of the time Alphatia) or all evil (Thyatis especially). Plus, in canon, but also in the PWA continuators, you can tell easily which realms/nations the authors like and which they dislike, and in bad ways ("good" realms get thrown lots of benifits, and even "catastrophies" work out in their favor, while "bad" realms suffer from orbital bombardment and famine). IMO, even if it's wise to have the fates lavish some with bounty while totally nuking others, it is the "bad" realms that should be given "lucky breaks" (especially by the game designers), and the "good" realms thrown "curve balls". Why? Unless you want to encourage campaigns where players run evil characters (not to knock thouse: they are often fun, and a good way to "cut loose" without going postal IRL), you should let the *players* (I.E. the folks who buy or otherwise use this materiel) take care of building up the "good guys" and defeating nefarious plans, while throwing "lucky breaks" to the "bad guys" will insure that the normal campaign actions of PCs don't wear them out. Ofn course I speak abstractly, because no one wants to see their favorite nation overun by undead hordes from a petty, backwards nation, suffer mass death and famine, and get torpedoed by previously unheard of underwater nations (all without taking advantage of it's own assets: I.E. folks on this list speak ad hominum about Alphatia's mages, but Thyatis has 250 "ultimate level" mages, too, and probably more Priests of power than Alphatia. . . .) But at least such things make for interesting campaign play (the problem comes when/if the players succeed in "altering" an event: at that point the carefully plotted timeline changed significantly. A DM has two choices: he can let it change, in which case canon materiel becomes slightly less useful, or he can make efforts to insure that things stay "on track" irregardless of the efforts of PCs. However, if you do the latter, you run into the "Forgotten Realms" syndrome. . . .) What is the "Forgotten Realms" syndrome? FRS is where only the actions of NPCs (al omnipotent & omnicient) make a difference, and success or failure of players (the guys who buy this stuff) doesn't matter. I never liked that, even if you can in your own games ignore it, it sets a certain "tone". What I always liked about Mystara is that the players can be a powerful force in the world (and not *just* in levels, though that too*), and their success or failure makes an impact (and being a "powerful force" doesn't mean getting their way, since their are a lot of potent NPCs intended to be an *impediment* to their plans; unlike the Misbegotten Realms where the most potent NPCs [Elminster, 7 Sisters, Drizzt] basically exist to do a job better left to PCs.) Pointless (like the rest of this screed isn't?) side note: I'm glad to see that the relaunch of Greyhawk is keeping more with the propper flavor. I picked up "Return of the Eight", and it's a difficult adventure, and the ending makes a difference based on if the PCs succeed or fail: their is none of this "Mordenkanien puts everything to right if the players fail" stuff at the end, like you often find in FR modules ("Elminster [or whoever] later fixes it.") *I also like the fact that in Mystara there are enough potent opponents that actual players can mess around with high level spells, powerful magic items, etc., and still be challenged. A *lot* of "neato" stuff has been published, and the usual attitude, at least from TSR, has been that PCs can "look, but don't touch" stuff like 9th level spells. As a player, I want to have the fun of using this stuff, too, and as a DM I don't see the point in denying it to my players. Most people out there, most ofn the time, are players: their really isn't much point in publishing hundreds of 7th-9th level spells if they can't use 'em, too IMO, at some point. Why should everyone retire the moment they advance from 8th to 9th level? Anyhow, I babbled at length about a lot of stuff. It is my hope that if TSR/WotC relaunches Mystara, they'll do it the right way, though. Using Orbital Bombardment on Zhentil Keep set a bad precident, and just reading some OL stuff, it's had a widespread, and IMO a negative, effect. The goal should be to "build up" the threat level, not lower it via some deus ex machina. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 10:10:56 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic > myself. I hate math. But I love the way the original Immortal rules so > elegantly blended the old characters into a new system. > Speaking of that, though, has anyone had any success, long-term, in running an Immortals campaign (under either rules system)? I toyed with it in the late '80s, but we never really could get a sustained campaign going (as opposed to intermittent adventuring/tinkering). As far as the rules go, IMO they were fine (and I suppose I'd prefer the gold box rules to the WotI rules if I had to make a choice, however the WotI rules did clear up some things left only moderatly well explained in the original set). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 10:17:21 -0500 From: onyx Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - And At 04:52 PM 7/6/98 +0200, DM wrote: >At 01.55 05/07/98 -0700, DJ wrote: >>> And Gaining new list members all the time. >>> BTW, Hi. Thought I'd say hello, since I'm new to the list. > >And Hi to you and to all the new listmembers that have not spoken their >presence aloud yet. > >And why is it that all these new people come in summer? You were supposed >to go abroad or to the beach or to the mountains and relax and have fun... >So what are you doing here?... Oh, man! Now i've got it: you're having fun! :) > >And BTW, for all the newcomers, in this URL you can find the Mystara FAQ: >http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystfaq.html >And here you have the MML FAQ: >http://www.lesbois.com/members/malacoda/mmlfaq.htm > >And that's all for now, folks! :) > >DM >(who's being less and less active on the list mainly because i'm very very >active playing in the RW -three times a week!- That's summer...) Thanks for the welcome. Actually, I'm in Florida. And work about 10 minutes from a beach. *sigh*. So I get to play on my laptop at work, and read messages in mail lists' :) BTW, I have a Character sheed for D&D in PDF format. It's not too bad, (Not great, but I'm working on it :) Anyone care to see it? I'd be happy to put it on the list. it's not all that big. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 17:20:37 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatian Military At 17.16 05/07/98 -0500, James wrote: >I'm the actual physical author of that, and I just wanted to say I >appreciate the feedback (now, time for some criticism, I'm sure). Also, I >just joined the MML. Welcome! I just visited your site and i must say you really did your homework! I liked all the subdivisions of the militia thyatiana that reflect RW roman legions, including the officers and soldiers ranks. I also wandered a bit in your site and found this URL: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/7211/Thyatis/Villia.html Now, one question and one comment: where did you get that photo (which villa is that?) The comment is: the latin name should be: Villa Romanones, not villIa. > As far as the Thyatian Military stuff goes, it's unfinished (I hope to >complete that portion this week; but any feedback/advice/etc. would be >nice). When it *is* finished you'll notice that the total strength (land, >naval, and elite forces) under my "new modle Thyatian Army" is >significantly less than the "full strength" OOB for the PWA Thyatian >Armies. But the quality is better, which I think is more appropriate. > It always completly and utterly vexed me that the PWA Thyatian armies were >basically the "Red Arrow" units, and there were no sign of Cavalry (I.E. >Kerendan), aerial forces (I.E. Retebius Air Fleet), and they were completly >incapable , in war mach. terms, in opposing the force TSR created for >Alphatia with the army they were given (but a more extensive rant on that >topic is on the webpage, so I'll stop my screed on that now). Good try! I've always liked War Machine, but sometimes i found many of the rule inappropriate (ex: if the opponent cannot harm your soldiers: +50 BR... but if the opponent cannot harm you, YOU HAVE WON!!...) Hope i'll exploit those data someday.. DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 10:15:07 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis, Mystara, and the tone of the World > > > Btw, lest anyone get the wrong impression, I enjoy all Mystara, too; the > only thing I dislike is the tendancy to sometimes steriotype I appologize for the mispellings & poor syntax of that post. I probably shouldn't rant before I eat breakfast. 8-)~ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 17:41:53 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones At 13.35 02/07/98 -0500, Tim Haney wrote: >This might not be a popular view but I just don't like the Old Ones. How dare you... >Their mysterious past or legend is fine but I don't like them to be >active in any way. Now, that's better... :) BTW, I partly agree with you... on a second thought, I COMPLETELY agree with you.. ;) > In fact, I'd rather they be dead as I think their >death could be tied to the Immortals' rise easily enough. But I know >that's probably not the way things are. The main reason I don't like >them is that I look at the Immortals as the gods of Mystara. With the >Old Ones hanging around, I'm unsure why mortals would waste their time >messing with the pretenders of power when the Old Ones hold the winning >hand. Don't think you're using the right PoV here. First of all, before WotI Immortals CANNOT prove the existence of the Old Ones, and even after WotI they have no idea why they are acting like that and what are their goals. To their eyes, they are still the absolute rulers of the Multiverse, but they know now that there is somebody out there watching them... However, the fact that they didn't intervene earlier in the history of Mystara, where Immortals caused great havoc as well (Nithia) probably has made them think that they are still quite free of act as they please (respecting the Immortal Directives, of course). IMHO Old Ones are NOT the gods of Mystara: this is the Immortals' role. Once somebody made this paragon: D&D Immortals are like AD&D gods, and Old Ones are just Mystara Overpowers (ex: FR Lord Ao). I think this could work, except perhaps the fact that probably all overpowers could be considered Old Ones (I guess it's just a concept of point of views..). >Course I've also decided to take the view that the Immortals are gods as >in other settings. Maybe they could be more powerful or less than gods >but I've not seen anything at all that tells me exactly what an Immortal >is, why they take names of gods, and why they need worshippers at all. Correct: Immortals are the Gods of the Mystara Multiverse, and they are both referred as gods or deities or immortals. >Since they are gods to me, I think the name Old Ones refers to the old >gods of Mystara that have been destroyed somehow. I just think it >simplifies things. I don't think so. Old Ones still live behind the Barrier, so they're not dead, clearly. Simply think of them as the Ultimate Supervisor: they are omniscient and omnipresent and always know what to do... but who knows for what pourpose..? IMHO their messing in WotI was an extremely bad move on Mystara designers' part, for they nearly ruined the aura of mystery that surrounds them and their motives. It would be like the Kargatane revealing what the Dark Powers of Ravenloft really are: everyone has got his own idea, so better not to detail them! As for myself, I have ruled that they will NEVER act in any way to alter the timestream of the dimensions Behind the Barrier (D&D and AD&D worlds). They always give the mortals and immortals clues about what to do, but they never interevene personally to change anything, for they don't belong to the project and don't wanna risk to alter it. So my explanation for what happened at the end of WotI is simply that with their intervention the Old Ones have maybe given the mortals and Immortals alike a key, a key that could prove invaluable when dealing with some obscure threat or mystery in the centuries to come. IMC they have already done so more than once, and this is due to their nature: they are a-dimensional and a-temporal. There is no past nor future for them, only the neverending present that stretches throughout the Time flow, and they don't live in any particular place, for they exist everywhere and every dimension holds a small fragment of these beings (for this reason they are able to monitor everything and know everything.) What their Ultimate Goal is however, nobody can tell... A last comment about the Barrier, the Dimensional Vortex... I have reasons to believe that it serves a double pourpose: not let anybody enter the Sixth Dimension from the first five AND not let anything enter the Five Dimensions from the Sixth... (note: i am both meta-communicating on the game here as well as talking in game terms) DM the Enigmatic One TM ;p *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 10:51:06 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatian Military > > Now, one question and one comment: where did you get that photo (which > villa is that?) The comment is: the latin name should be: Villa Romanones, > not villIa. > 1: re "Villllllllia" yah, that's a typo: that page is *way* under construction & completely unfinished. 2) photo: I *think* I found that one at Imagnetion, but I don't remember for sure. . . Anyhow, Imagnetion is at: http://www.imagenetion.com/index.html > > Good try! > I've always liked War Machine, but sometimes i found many of the rule > inappropriate > I always liked War Machine, too. My main problem I guess is that over time the system can be effectively "gamed" fairly/too easily. Some of the other problems can be dealt with via house rules, though. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 12:03:36 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - BGPD << This works for me. Easy to understand, and it allows the unique character of Alphatia to be preserved (let's face it, high magic is an intrinsic part of Alphatian culture). Mind you, I'm with Jamuga on one point - moving it back to the surface world would be even better! :-) Geoff >> Would you prefer Alphatia to be a "normal" continent or the first floating continent of the Outer World? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 11:50:29 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Agrandizing Alphatia (as if it needs agrandizement) > > Would you prefer Alphatia to be a "normal" continent > or the first floating continent of the Outer World? > Why not make it both? In fact, why not keep an Alphatia in the Hollow World, an Alphatia on the Outer World, and an Alphatia on Myoshima? Ok, to be serious: Bellisaria is big in and of itself (at 1,200,000+ sq. miles). It's always seemed underpopulated to me (even if the agriculture is "poor", their is no reason why it couldn't support a population ten times what it is listed as supporting, or more.) Bellisaria by itself is much bigger than the "Known World" area of Brun. So populate it, detail it, and give it a role it deserves. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 17:57:08 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis, Mystara, and the tone of the World > Plus, in canon, but also in the PWA continuators, you can tell easily >which realms/nations the authors like and which they dislike, and in bad >ways ("good" realms get thrown lots of benifits, and even "catastrophies" >work out in their favor, while "bad" realms suffer from orbital bombardment >and famine). They kindof shifted from liking Thyatis to liking Alphatia, as I recall. Right at the beginning Thyatis was the benevolent protector against Alphatian aggression. The thing that peeves me is that originally it was supposed to be "magical might (Alphatia) vs military might (Thyatis) = stalemate", but as Alphatia got more developed TSR just seemed to give everything to the Alphatians, which I thought wrecked the delicate balance that this "cold war" situation was supposed to have. > IMO, even if it's wise to have the fates lavish some with bounty while >totally nuking others, it is the "bad" realms that should be given "lucky >breaks" (especially by the game designers), and the "good" realms thrown >"curve balls". I dont know about that. Alphatia sunk, so its effectively out of bounds now as far as the KW matters. Alfheim got razzed by the Shadow Elves. Its not all plain sailing for the "good guys". But another reason I like Mystara is the lack of good/evil. Nations are nations, nothing more. A classic example of this is Darokin - exactly how people think that this nation is "good" I will never know. Its not a republic at all - its run by "companies", and corporate interests. Nations run by companies are rarely "good" in any fiction Ive ever read (check out the Corporate Sector Authority in Star Wars - they're almost as bad as the Empire). > Ofn course I speak abstractly, because no one wants to see their favorite >nation overun by undead hordes from a petty, backwards nation, suffer mass >death and famine, and get torpedoed by previously unheard of underwater >nations (all without taking advantage of it's own assets: I.E. folks on >this list speak ad hominum about Alphatia's mages, but Thyatis has 250 >"ultimate level" mages, too, and probably more Priests of power than >Alphatia. . . .) Oh god, those 250 mages have reared their ugly head again... Another think I like about Mystara is that I think its the only campaign setting where FIGHTERS and not Mages are often really high level, famous guys. Like Thincol, Stefan Karameikos, Ericall, and even Sir John of the Wain. > What is the "Forgotten Realms" syndrome? FRS is where only the actions of >NPCs (al omnipotent & omnicient) make a difference, and success or failure >of players (the guys who buy this stuff) doesn't matter. I never liked >that, even if you can in your own games ignore it, it sets a certain >"tone". I agree here. That just sucks so much. But you can keep the campaign on track with a few changes. Especially if you assume the party succeeds in the adventure (as 90% of the time they will). And you can usually predict what will happen and lead the PCs into doing what you want... And if they dont do what you want, thats fun for the DM as well. > What I always liked about Mystara is that the players can be a powerful >force in the world (and not *just* in levels, though that too*), and their >success or failure makes an impact (and being a "powerful force" doesn't >mean getting their way, since their are a lot of potent NPCs intended to be >an *impediment* to their plans; unlike the Misbegotten Realms where the >most potent NPCs [Elminster, 7 Sisters, Drizzt] basically exist to do a job >better left to PCs.) Pointless (like the rest of this screed isn't?) side All this "Chosen of Mystra" rubbish just defines the problem IMHO. "They are chosen, you are NOT" seems the way the Realms is run. >note: I'm glad to see that the relaunch of Greyhawk is keeping more with >the propper flavor. I picked up "Return of the Eight", and it's a difficult >adventure, and the ending makes a difference based on if the PCs succeed or >fail: their is none of this "Mordenkanien puts everything to right if the >players fail" stuff at the end, like you often find in FR modules >("Elminster [or whoever] later fixes it.") Cool. I'm about to play that adventure as part of a Planescape party. I'm angling to become one of the Eight, but I don't think its going to happen.... Well, I'm only a couple of thousand xp off getting 8th level spells, and Tenser, with his Int 17, can only cast 8th level spells so I'm not so out of my league... > *I also like the fact that in Mystara there are enough potent opponents >that actual players can mess around with high level spells, powerful magic >items, etc., and still be challenged. My players liked that too. Theres a lot of very powerful stuff out there. And things like artifacts just litter the planet, it seems to me... :) A *lot* of "neato" stuff has been >published, and the usual attitude, at least from TSR, has been that PCs can >"look, but don't touch" stuff like 9th level spells. As a player, I want to >have the fun of using this stuff, too, and as a DM I don't see the point in >denying it to my players. I HATE having to retire my character when I reach level 12 because there are no more modules to play... Its like that guy in Greek myth who has to try to roll a boulder up a hill but he never makes it - you get so far, but before you reach the summit you have to start again! Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 12:01:24 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - BGPD > > Mind you, I'm with Jamuga on one point - moving it back to the surface > world would be even better! :-) > > Would you prefer Alphatia to be a "normal" continent > or the first floating continent of the Outer World? > Hmmmmn. . . .I don't know why thouse who favor Alphatia are so intent on moving it. It seems to me that the result of WotA & the PWAs was to make Alphatia the dominant nation on *BOTH* the Outer World and in the Hollow World (and just because Alphatian mages can't use *certain* spells in the HW doesn't mean they don't have access to them if they sail back out to the OW to mess with folks). If it really bothers you that they aren't omnipotent, you can give all Alphatians, regardless of class and level, 1 Wish per Hour (24 per day), which should make up for it. Ok, I was being sarcastic: but look at it; their home continent is invulnerable (no one has enough skyships for a propper invasion, the Alphatians included), they have by far the best army (and the most important components of it are capable of flight, and thus can conduct an invasion of the OW, which is what you seem to want it to be capable of doing), and with the "NACE" they have an OW Empire which you've already made into the most powerful force in the OW. What more do they need? Why would it be helpful to move them all back to the Surface, when, as I have pointed out, in their current state they are hegemons over both worlds? Hmmmn. . .that Wish idea would play havoc with the Alphatian social structure, too, since it would turn everyone into a spellcaster. So perhaps just limit it to folks who are already spellcasters (and if you make the 1,000 mages into Immortals, then they can ignore the restrictions on magic in the HW. . .there: problem solved). 8-)~ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 18:09:17 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic >>> Sorry but your WRONG WRONG WRONG. the OD&D gold box did more in 1985ish >> than you could comprehend! Rather than the BORING BORING BORING wheel >> for out and sphere for in we have an evolving Macrosphere of unlimited >> possibility. I have the Gold box, used it until about a year ago, and I have to disagree with you here... The Wheel is cool - ok the idea of Hell is a little stereotypical, but I think its a good idea for it to be out there. Check out Hades / the Elysian Fields from Greek myth - this stuff is ACE! Its a welcome addition to any xD+D campaign IMO. Of course, Planescape isnt really like that (demons drinking in taverns in Sigil? I think not...) but a few tweaks and it becomes cool...) Sort of like when Hubble telescope looked into `EMPTY` >> space and found all those `new` galaxies. BOY did that cut down on the >> dark matter needed in the universe. you`ve got the beastlands we`ve got >> a pentaspatial terraplane connected to a monospatial attoplane connected >> to etc. OD&D can contain ALL of the planar stuff for AD&D without it >> even being worth notice. Try the reverse and AD&D it go BOOM `cos you >> can`t get a quart in a pint pot! <;-P Uh huh. Ive heard this one as well - the AD+D multiverse is infinite as well - its just that more areas of it are detailed. The Astral and Ethereal planes hold planes other than the Great Wheel (if you check out Planescape adventures new ones, quite similar to D+D planes like Chasm and Thorne keep turning up left and right). Even Spelljammer in some of the modules theorises at the Flow being a discrete "blob" with "other galaxies" outside it. AD+D, in the final analysis, has everything that D+D has (ie infinity), its just that a lot more of it is described. You can even have your monospaces and trispaces, if you read the Chronomancer book... I can think of lots of ways that Mystara and its multiverse could be incorporated into AD+D. Its not so easy to do vice versa though, I think. The problem is that to actually have all the stuff you need loads and loads of books! Whereas in D+D you need three (the Companion, Master and Immortal books). Granted this is a problem. But the thing I really like about AD+D is that I think there is remarkably little inconsistancy between all the different authors of Planescape/Chronomancer/Shaman material - the AD+D multiverse has a "weird science" all of its own, and it does actually hang together quite well. And being a science graduate, I like that sort of thing. D+D basically hasnt got a multiverse - the ball is entirely in the DMs court. (which, of course, has its good points). Cheerz ROB (But anyway, this whole thread is just about differing opinions. And as I voted Tory in the last election, you can see that my mind is pretty well set...) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 18:14:38 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - EXTRA EXTRA! >Eh eh! well, IMC Ierendi IS the land of stereotypes... in the sense that >every movie or telefilm character of RW can be found in Ierendi... For >example, last time my players were dining at the Blue Dolphin Pub when a >threatening looking man donning a dark suit of armor entered the place and >after scanning around, he asked at the female PC: "Are you Sarah?" She >froze on the chair and answered she wasn't.... It turned out our Terminator >was in the wrong pub, so after excusing himself, he went out... :) > >My game is full of these things... and we love it this way! Lol. In that Planescape game that i'm in a fellow player is playing a cambion, who is basically the Terminator. Some people hate that sort of stuff, but I think its cool. Humour is important - it is a game, after all. Humourless players should be referred to Vampire, the Masquerade, in my opinion :) (No insult to Vampire players. I play Vampire as well, on occasion!) Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 13:19:37 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - BGPD The Alphatians are certainly not dominant, after WotI, on the outer world. Their empire is in ruins, the council is broken, the mages are fled to the four corners, and likely old enemies will conduct special hunts in the style of the old Inquisition... James Ruhland wrote: > > > > Mind you, I'm with Jamuga on one point - moving it back to the surface > > world would be even better! :-) > > > > Would you prefer Alphatia to be a "normal" continent > > or the first floating continent of the Outer World? > > > Hmmmmn. . . .I don't know why thouse who favor Alphatia are so intent on > moving it. It seems to me that the result of WotA & the PWAs was to make > Alphatia the dominant nation on *BOTH* the Outer World and in the Hollow > World (and just because Alphatian mages can't use *certain* spells in the > HW doesn't mean they don't have access to them if they sail back out to the > OW to mess with folks). If it really bothers you that they aren't > omnipotent, you can give all Alphatians, regardless of class and level, 1 > Wish per Hour (24 per day), which should make up for it. > Ok, I was being sarcastic: but look at it; their home continent is > invulnerable (no one has enough skyships for a propper invasion, the > Alphatians included), they have by far the best army (and the most > important components of it are capable of flight, and thus can conduct an > invasion of the OW, which is what you seem to want it to be capable of > doing), and with the "NACE" they have an OW Empire which you've already > made into the most powerful force in the OW. > What more do they need? Why would it be helpful to move them all back to > the Surface, when, as I have pointed out, in their current state they are > hegemons over both worlds? > Hmmmn. . .that Wish idea would play havoc with the Alphatian social > structure, too, since it would turn everyone into a spellcaster. So perhaps > just limit it to folks who are already spellcasters (and if you make the > 1,000 mages into Immortals, then they can ignore the restrictions on magic > in the HW. . .there: problem solved). 8-)~ > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #469 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, July 6 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 470 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis, Mystara, and the tone of the World Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis, Mystara, and the tone of the World Re: [MYSTARA] - EXTRA EXTRA! Re: [MYSTARA] - BGPD Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic on the Floating Continent of Alphatia Re: [MYSTARA] - BGPD Re: [MYSTARA] - EXTRA EXTRA! Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic on the Floating Continent of Alphatia Re: [MYSTARA] - BGPD Re: [MYSTARA] - EXTRA EXTRA! Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatian Military RE: [MYSTARA] - And Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatian Military Re: [MYSTARA] - BGPD Re: [MYSTARA] - BGPD Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian "civil war" [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos Re: [MYSTARA] - And Re: [MYSTARA] - BGPD ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 18:24:50 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic - -- > >>Prime Plane is the perfect melding of substance and spirit - Life. >> >>(Or so the Chronomancer book would have you believe :) >> >You believe them? Lets get real here WHICH prime? Prime +1 hour/ min/ >sec/eon? Those people ARE crazy. What about all those living in the >socalled `Nightmare Dimension`? They definately dont put your prime at >the centre of the Mystaraverse. <;-P Hence the comment about the Chronomancer book (AD+D, not D+D!). In AD+D the Nightmare Dimension is the Wall of Colour, in the Ethereal Plane, which is capable of influencing events in the Prime Plane and "leaking" Nightmare energy into the Prime Plane. Its even got its own indigenous inhabitants, like the Dimension of Nightmares in oD+D. People having particularly vivid dreams or nightmares can end up there, until they awake, and sometimes beasties stray through into the Prime... Or, if you dont like that, you could have the Nightmare Plane as a variant of AD+D Temporal Prime (effectively the Dimension of Time - and it is a dimension, not a plane...). You dont "travel" to Temporal Prime, you change the way you perceive things so you can "see" it (sounds very D+D, this!). You could have the Nightmare Dimension as a variant on this theme (Nightmare Prime?). Of course, the Wall of Colour idea could explain this one already - its possible to go their by dreamwalking and hypnosis, nonmagically (changing the way you perceive things?). Lol. "A great many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view" - Ben Kenobi, on D+D vs AD+D Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 13:34:28 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis, Mystara, and the tone of the World Rob wrote: > > Plus, in canon, but also in the PWA continuators, you can tell easily > >which realms/nations the authors like and which they dislike, and in bad > >ways ("good" realms get thrown lots of benifits, and even "catastrophies" > >work out in their favor, while "bad" realms suffer from orbital bombardment > >and famine). > > They kindof shifted from liking Thyatis to liking Alphatia, as I recall. > Right at the beginning Thyatis was the benevolent protector against > Alphatian aggression. Actually it was just the opposite. Back in "Test of the Warlords", when Alphatia and the cold war was first introduced, the conflict was presented in a more or less neutral light. As the two mighty empires struggled, a virgin colony (Norwold) fought to survive. Gradually Alphatia became the good guy. As the gazetteers came out, Alphatia was constantly presented as the bad-guy-aggressor. This was mainly because the gazetteers were written in the PoV of the nation in question. But eventually this view came to be the rule and culminated in the Dragonlord Trilogy where the Alphatian mages are portrayed as far away evil conniving wizards who can't handle a few wimpy dragons. (Now THAT should be good flame material if anything is!) > > > The thing that peeves me is that originally it was supposed to be "magical > might (Alphatia) vs military might (Thyatis) = stalemate", but as Alphatia > got more developed TSR just seemed to give everything to the Alphatians, > which I thought wrecked the delicate balance that this "cold war" situation > was supposed to have. Alphatia always owned a huge portion of the world. I kinda like it that way. Thyatis is powerful, but only able to influence a small portion of the world. The two fight, but only in the arenas of colonies or diplomacy. If the two were ever to slug it out, Alphatia would be unquestionably the winner. But the cost would be enormous. So neither wants an all out slugfest... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 12:29:41 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis, Mystara, and the tone of the World > > I dont know about that. Alphatia sunk, so its effectively out of bounds now > as far as the KW matters. > Except that Alphatia, through the PWAs, effectively became Hegemon of both the Hollow World & the Known World (it's not like the "remnant" in the Outter World is small potato"e"s, especially since they gave undefeatable armies to Thothia, unified Belisaria, and insured contact between both floating Alphatia and the "remnants" in the Known World.) See also: NACE junk. > Alfheim got razzed by the Shadow Elves. Its not > all plain sailing for the "good guys". > That was during WotI, before they got infected with FRS ("Forgotten Realms Syndrome"); also, the affect of that was to agrandize Karameikos (all thouse Elven refugees to populate the place). > But another reason I like Mystara is the lack of good/evil. Nations are > nations, nothing more. A classic example of this is Darokin - exactly how > people think that this nation is "good" I will never know. > I don't, either. However, it is uniformy described that way in canon. IMO, Stefan Karameikos is more N or LN at best than LG, he just has good propagandists to portray his explotation of the Traldarans in a benevolent light. > > Oh god, those 250 mages have reared their ugly head again... Another think > I like about Mystara is that I think its the only campaign setting where > FIGHTERS and not Mages are often really high level, famous guys. Like > Thincol, Stefan Karameikos, Ericall, and even Sir John of the Wain. > (all the talk about "Alphatia mages this" and "Alphatia mages that" and "we need to give Alphatian mages access to everything" in the few days since I joined the list got me rilled). What bothers me isn't so much that the 250 mages don't "rear their ugly heads", but that no creative solution to problems appears at all, except for favored realms. Thincol wasn't a "dumb fighter", so I dk why he came off that way in much of the later canon materiel. Neither is Eusibius a "dumb fighter", so I dk why he comes off that way, either; it seems people often think that if you're not a spellcaster, and you find yourself in a room with the door closed, you won't think to turn the doorknob; in other words, if you can't cast spells, you're a dumb ox who looses his fleet. Thyatis isn't full of idiots any more than Alphatia is. > > All this "Chosen of Mystra" rubbish just defines the problem IMHO. "They > are chosen, you are NOT" seems the way the Realms is run. > Grrrrrr. . .I agree. For many reasons, I actually like the "Seven Sisters" accessory. But it is completely infused with the attitude that these NPCs are way more important than your PCs can ever hope to be, and you'd better stay out of their way. That attitude is evil. > > Cool. I'm about to play that adventure as part of a Planescape party. I'm > angling to become one of the Eight, but I don't think its going to > happen.... > Ok, I'd better not say anything about that adventure, then, except that I think you're in for a enjoyable, challenging time. 8-) > Well, I'm only a couple of thousand xp off getting 8th level > spells, and Tenser, with his Int 17, can only cast 8th level spells so I'm > not so out of my league... > Hmmmn. . .TSR has never been good at following it's own rules. (it doesn't matter for the Adventure, so I can speak on this here): Tenser can cast 9th level spells, at least according to TSR. > > I HATE having to retire my character when I reach level 12 because there are > no more modules to play... Its like that guy in Greek myth who has to try > to roll a boulder up a hill but he never makes it - you get so far, but > before you reach the summit you have to start again! > Sysipus. Yah. I don't do that. I never retire a character that I enjoy playing. I have some laying around here that I've played for 15 years. You don't always have to play modules. I do that often myself (because ofn time: given time constraints, I'd much rather spend time actually playing). Some of the funnest & best campains I've been in used few modules, however, and had *no* real planned adventures (meaning that we didn't run modules, nor either did we use prepaired adventures). Things would be done "on the fly", by the seat of the pants (which was also good for us because we rotated who DMed). It was less chaotic/disorganized/random than you might expect. It required both the players & the DM to be good at 'thinking on their feet', and it let the players be as creative in deciding what to do next as the DM (since the DM didn't have an adventure all charted out, player decisions about where to go & what to do wouldn't "interfier" with carefully planed & ploted adventures). At this point their is a ream of pretty good high level adventures available (Throne of Bloodstone, Isle of the Ape, etc), mostly out of print, and ifn you can find them they are fairly expensive. IMO, TSR/WotC should learn from that: the OOP modules in greatest demand, and thus highest in cost, are ones designed to challenge powerful characters. Hopefully they'll make more like 'em. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 12:34:24 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - EXTRA EXTRA! > > Some people hate that sort of stuff, but I think its cool. Humour is > important - it is a game, after all. Humourless players should be referred > to Vampire, the Masquerade, in my opinion :) > There is lots of humor in Vampire (I.E. Nosferatu "Leatherfaces"); it's just the Ventrue & Toreador types that are drags. 8-)~ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 12:42:48 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - BGPD > > The Alphatians are certainly not dominant, after WotI, on the outer world. Their > empire is in ruins, the council is broken, the mages are fled to the four corners, > and likely old enemies will conduct special hunts in the style of the old > Inquisition... > That was busily being rectified. IMO, good gameplay would have kept Zandor around on the Outer World (he made such a wonderful villian), however, his "role" was to, through Broderic, re-unite the remaining Alphatian stuff on the Outer World (small areas like Bellisaria and weak places like Thotia), then turn everything over to "Mom". And with the formation of the NACE I'd hardly argue that their empire, on either the outter or the Hollow world is "in ruins". As far as the council being broken, I thought it was alive and well in the Hollow World, busily building Skyships to dominate both areas? Clearly, one empire is "in ruins", but it is not the Alphatian. Heck, as far as I know, they still even hold Esterhold, which one would have thought would be the first to go, if Alphatia were "in ruins". The thing I question is whether Mystara needs one Empire as powerful as Alphatia, much less two of them (one in the HW, and one centered on Bellisaria in the OW), but clearly some have other preferences, and they should go where their heart leads them. . *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 14:00:34 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic << This, if I have read the Poor Wizard's Almanac correctly, is also before the world was hollowed out. Of course, the World Shield was probably there before, but in the geometric center. According to the PWA, the World Shield's most important function is providing enough mass for Mystara to generate an Earth-like gravity. >> No, the world was already hollow and there were opening at the poles. After the Great rain of Fire, when the axis has shifted the Immortals sealed the old openings and created new even bigger ones. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 14:00:28 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic on the Floating Continent of Alphatia << My opinion on Wish is that I very much like the AD+D limitations on it to prevent that degree of munchkinism (I mean!!! PCs would get to do this stuff if you allow that sort of thing! Not in my campaign!). The caster ages 5 years per 100 years of regular lifespan whenever casting a wish (And I think it takes 10 wishes to move an attribute from 16 to 17, but I could be wrong on that one). Potions of longevity arent very good either - they extend your lifespan, they dont make you younger (elixirs of youth do that, and they only knock off a couple of years). So you will be very old, for a very long time... And they backfire if overused as well. So aging isnt to be taken lightly. >> No, it requires 17 wishes! But it's IYC to age not IMC. And not according to rules neither. << Also, given the previous debate on the power of magic, not all Alphatians would actually have wish in their spellbooks - given the number of 9th level spells, only about half would. And of those half, perhaps only half of those have the required intelligence. And of those - who would feel public spirited enough to use their life up in helping out others? Few mages would be so nationally minded, Alphatian or not. >> There's a very simple reason why a high level mage (or cleric) would cast enough wishes to raise the intelligence of a young aspiring mage or cleric ... money! Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 14:06:11 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - BGPD In a message dated 98-07-06 10:00:42 EDT, ezaqwazy@hotmail.com writes: << >Mind you, I'm with Jamuga on one point - moving it back to the surface >world would be even better! :-) > I`ve gotta disagree with that. CASE on surface is good enough! Imagine if Broderic was to get his hands on the FULL Alphatian army and navy! We`ve only just recovered from the last great war! <;-P >> sorry dude but i have to disagree with here. when alphatia sank, the bulk of the alphatian armies were poised to strike glantri. being away from the alphatian continent when it sank these warriors spared the drowning and subsequent reawakening in hw. so these guys and gals are still on the surface world, composing a large proportion of the displaced alphatians. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 13:09:09 -0500 From: onyx Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - EXTRA EXTRA! >> Some people hate that sort of stuff, but I think its cool. Humour is >> important - it is a game, after all. Humourless players should be >referred >> to Vampire, the Masquerade, in my opinion :) >> >There is lots of humor in Vampire (I.E. Nosferatu "Leatherfaces"); it's >just the Ventrue & Toreador types that are drags. 8-)~ hehe... I had a Toreador Commedian once. Had a boatload of Celerity and often did "Magic" tricks on stage. hehe.. it's amazing what you can do with presence. Oooops... Damn.. sorry - got off topic. :( *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 13:05:09 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic on the Floating Continent of Alphatia > > No, it requires 17 wishes! But it's IYC to age not IMC. And > not according to rules neither. > AD&D Rules you age 5 years per Wish (*grimace*). Also, it takes 10 Wishes per ability point between 17-20, and 20 wishes per point theirafter. I think the 17 was right per D&D rules (I'd have to look in the Cyclopedia), but you didn't Age, so you could cast Wish all day long. > > There's a very simple reason why a high level mage (or cleric) would > cast enough wishes to raise the intelligence of a young aspiring mage > or cleric ... money! > Why not do it for free? A D&D Wish doesn't cost you anything (see above), and you'll get more "goodwill" if you do it for free, and grateful dudes will give you favorable treatement in the future. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 13:07:01 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - BGPD > > sorry dude but i have to disagree with here. when alphatia sank, the bulk of > the alphatian armies were poised to strike glantri. being away from the > alphatian continent when it sank these warriors spared the drowning and > subsequent reawakening in hw. > Ahh, you don't have PWA II, where they gave Alphatia the most dominant army extant. I guess they recovered quickly, or something. . . . . . . . *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 20:59:59 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - EXTRA EXTRA! When I first played a Scottish NPC I put on a stage scots accent. Half way through the adventure the players went "Wait a minute, you're putting on a scottish accent! Just speak normally!" Harrumph. I never say it's a braw bricht moonlicht nicht irl, but I sure want McAlister to say it :) Do you think you could give us (or me privately, if nobody else is interested) a few pointers on how to speak with Scottish accent? I've always wanted to learn it :) ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html Join the Mystaran Birthright PBEM at the above website! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 14:24:33 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatian Military In a message dated 98-07-06 10:11:23 EDT, ezaqwazy@hotmail.com writes: << > And I thought I was the only "fan" of Thyatis that existed; most folks >seem to adore Alphatia (like TSR obviously did, giving them both the Hollow >World & the Known World to dominate, while the "Immortals" frown on anyone >else being so hegemonic), which you can tell from the PWAs and from the >online continuations of the timeline (but now I'm ranting again. . . ) > But at least their is Rob and I. 8-) > I too like Thyatis. I personally make it more eastern empire (can`t spell Byzantine) than is given and find that my players want to keep away because it`s scary the politics are even worse(better depending on point of view) than those of Glantri. In fact IMC just to score a few political points a cleric of Halav let out the fact that Thincol had been cursed by Vanya for trying to keep the empire alive during WotI. OTOH I like ALL Mystara so anything done to keep the spirit alive is good in my book. If I don`t like it I`ll tweak it until I do. <;-P >> not to seem to be singling you out....but i have to disagree with you again. TSR had a definite tendency to favor thyatis. this favoratism was not as bad early on. after aaron allston became the main product author, things went definitely against alphatia. look at dawn of the emperors very little on alphatia. what is described focuses on the negative aspects of alphatia. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 11:34:37 -0700 From: "Harvey, MichaelX" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - And On Monday, July 06, 1998 8:17 AM, onyx [SMTP:onyx@fwb.gulf.net] wrote: > BTW, I have a Character sheed for D&D in PDF format. It's not too > bad, (Not great, but I'm working on it :) Anyone care to see it? > I'd be happy to put it on the list. it's not all that big. You just missed the thread on D&D character sheets... I (and others here) would like to have a copy, but it is *BAD* to post anything binary to the mailing list. Could you put it up on a web site or something? (Or it you don't have a web site, email it to me and I'll put it on mine! ;-) Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 13:34:13 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatian Military > > not to seem to be singling you out....but i have to disagree with you again. > TSR had a definite tendency to favor thyatis. this favoratism was not as bad > early on. after aaron allston became the main product author, things went > definitely against alphatia. look at dawn of the emperors very little on > alphatia. what is described focuses on the negative aspects of alphatia. > I may swoon, that's hardly. . .accurate. Alphatia got Skyships, most of the World to play with, was hardly portrayed as the 'bad guy' in Norwold (though neither empire came off looking like the bees knees in the end), all the Princess Ark stuff (which I loved anyhow); Alphatia "sunk" but got everything fixed up for them, while Thyatis couldn't even deal with a minor outbreak of mummy rot, and couldn't even deal with the "remnant" Alphatia (oh, poor Alphatia was so bad off; they only had the Thothians & a massive fleet left, and 'small' Bellisaria). By the end of the PWAs, Thyatis is in ruins, while Alphatia is *definately* on its way to Hegemonic domination of both the HW & the Outter World. I can't really think of any long-term negative thing that affected Alphatia. Alphatia is, with Karameikos & Darokin, a prime example of where even the "Catastrophic" would be written to come out to actually end up being of benifit to them (I.E. so they sink: they now rule everything rather than just half of everything as a result). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 15:01:26 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - BGPD Alex said: >i am glad my game campaign never reached the woti period. therefore i do not >have to worry about the sinking as of yet. still a return to the surface world >would be nice for my post wrath setting ,material. but how? could explain it >as a dream...like they did for the tv show Dallas. you know when bobby ewing >got shot, then they brought him back. Well, I've shared my way of doing it in the past, but the way I'll do it when my campaign reaches that time (still in AC 1000 right now) is probably the Doomsday Device destroys only Sundsvall and vicinity (most of Vertiloch, northern Theranderol, etc.), and with the demise of so many top wizards, the more liberal nations (such as Draco and Greenspur) will decide to declare independence (along with Belissaria and the IoD). The Alphatian motherland is embroiled in a huge civil war, and pretty much the rest of the events play out as officially given. Alliances form amongst the nations, and others try to get involved. It will be an interesting 10 years or so. Maybe I'll do up a timeline someday. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 15:13:34 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - BGPD >Would you prefer Alphatia to be a "normal" continent >or the first floating continent of the Outer World? > > Jamuga Khan naturally, it would have to be a real continent - as it was before. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 14:29:28 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian "civil war" The below sounds nasty. Depending on how Intense things get, that could be a even more devistating war that WotI (Civil Wars can be pretty gruesome). IMO, though, there is a lot of (usually low level) internal. . .discord. . .in Alphatia even in normal times. All thouse defensive walls and frontier fortifications aren't aimed at the Thyatians (which could never get so far), but at each other. . . . > > Well, I've shared my way of doing it in the past, but the way I'll do it > when my campaign reaches that time (still in AC 1000 right now) is > probably the Doomsday Device destroys only Sundsvall and vicinity (most of > Vertiloch, northern Theranderol, etc.), and with the demise of so many top > wizards, the more liberal nations (such as Draco and Greenspur) will > decide to declare independence (along with Belissaria and the IoD). The > Alphatian motherland is embroiled in a huge civil war, and pretty much the > rest of the events play out as officially given. Alliances form amongst > the nations, and others try to get involved. It will be an interesting 10 > years or so. Maybe I'll do up a timeline someday. > > Geoff > > -- > Geoff Gander, BA 97 > Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon > Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog > au998@freenet.carleton.ca > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 15:42:58 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos There. I've said it. I feel much better now. All this talk about Thyatis vs. Alphatia (long live the emperor!) has got me to thinking about that one nation which I probably dislike the most - Karameikos. Why, do you ask? It's not that I don't like the cultural aspect (reminiscent of Illyria and Dacia, IMO), it's just this: Karameikos is the single most overexposed, over-detailled, and over-promoted nation in the KW (IMO). Sure, it's great as a beginner's nation, they say - so is just about every other nation. The Gaz series provides tons of info for campaigning at all levels in every nation. What got my goat was that almost every B-level module was placed in Karameikos (retroactively for some, I admit), where putting some of them in other nations could have sufficed. Sure, any DM could put them anywhere, but that's not the point of this (half-joking) diatribe. Another thing - why does everything seem to happen in Karameikos? Just a gut feeling. Is King Stephan REALLY all that important? Is the Known World all that important for that matter - since there could easily be equally sophisticated nations elsewhere? I hope I haven't offended any Karameikos fans out there, that was not the intent. Other people have voiced their disfavour for various nations, and I thought I'd do the same. :-) Thank you for listening to this diatribe - I feel much better now :). Geoff (who hopes King Stephan has a nasty accident) - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 06:22:25 +1000 From: stan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - And At 16:52 06 07 98 +0200, DM wrote: >And BTW, for all the newcomers, in this URL you can find the Mystara FAQ: >http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystfaq.html >And here you have the MML FAQ: >http://www.lesbois.com/members/malacoda/mmlfaq.htm > >And that's all for now, folks! :) And also for newcomers old files of interest are thoughtfully archived at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 Hey that's my site - what a conincidence :) >(who's being less and less active on the list mainly because i'm very very >active playing in the RW -three times a week!- That's summer...) That's good for you northerners, while us here in Oz are enjoying short, cold days. stan http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 16:18:57 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - BGPD << Hmmmmn. . . .I don't know why thouse who favor Alphatia are so intent on moving it. It seems to me that the result of WotA & the PWAs was to make Alphatia the dominant nation on *BOTH* the Outer World and in the Hollow World (and just because Alphatian mages can't use *certain* spells in the HW doesn't mean they don't have access to them if they sail back out to the OW to mess with folks). If it really bothers you that they aren't omnipotent, you can give all Alphatians, regardless of class and level, 1 Wish per Hour (24 per day), which should make up for it. Ok, I was being sarcastic: but look at it; their home continent is invulnerable (no one has enough skyships for a propper invasion, the Alphatians included), they have by far the best army (and the most important components of it are capable of flight, and thus can conduct an invasion of the OW, which is what you seem to want it to be capable of doing), and with the "NACE" they have an OW Empire which you've already made into the most powerful force in the OW. >> This wish thing is too much, and even not needed! But you are thinking too much in military terms. Alphatia has developed a special kind of lifestyle with a lots of magic. The restrictions of the Spell of Preservation would reduce this dramatically, so the idea of a bubble of Outer World magic around the floating continent is alright. So let's go ahead with this: The Alphatians can continue their life as usual on the continent, are restricted when fighting and exploring the Hollow World, and can build a new Empire on the Outer World, which should be much weaker, but much more active than the old. It should be equal to Thyatis so that we could reach a new stalemate. BTW, I'm the opinion that Bellissaria should be developed properly. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #470 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, July 6 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 471 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Republic Darokin Re: [MYSTARA] - Agrandizing Alphatia (as if it needs agrandizement) Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos [MYSTARA] - Amen Brother!!!! was (Re: I don't like Karameikos) Re: [MYSTARA] - Republic Darokin Re: [MYSTARA] - BGPD Re: [MYSTARA] - Agrandizing Alphatia (as if it needs agrandizement) Re: [MYSTARA] - BGPD Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic on Floating Alphatia. Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Armies: all "reserves"? Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic on the Floationg Continent of Alphatia Re: [MYSTARA] - BGPD Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic on the Floationg Continent of Alphatia Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos Re: [MYSTARA] - Bellissarian "Empire" Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos [MYSTARA] - 1015 Almanac strikes back! Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 16:18:51 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Republic Darokin << But another reason I like Mystara is the lack of good/evil. Nations are nations, nothing more. A classic example of this is Darokin - exactly how people think that this nation is "good" I will never know. Its not a republic at all - its run by "companies", and corporate interests. Nations run by companies are rarely "good" in any fiction Ive ever read (check out the Corporate Sector Authority in Star Wars - they're almost as bad as the Empire). >> What are you telling us? Of course Darokin is a republic! It's not a democratic republic like the USA, France or Germany, but a republic nonetheless. On the other hand Canada and Norway are democratic states, but no republics. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 16:18:48 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Agrandizing Alphatia (as if it needs agrandizement) << Ok, to be serious: Bellisaria is big in and of itself (at 1,200,000+ sq. miles). It's always seemed underpopulated to me (even if the agriculture is "poor", their is no reason why it couldn't support a population ten times what it is listed as supporting, or more.) Bellisaria by itself is much bigger than the "Known World" area of Brun. So populate it, detail it, and give it a role it deserves. >> No need to convince the Mighty Khan. :-) Exactly the same opinion I have uttered in the past. I was even not very content with the idea of placing the capital of the NACE on Monster Island instead of Bellissaria which had been a much better choice. I fear the Floating Continent of Alphatia will remain in the Hollow World, but with full magical capacity. The Alphatian Empire in the Outer World will be strong enough without it. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 15:18:32 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos I guess I'm a misanthrope, because I agree with everything the estemed Mr. Gander wrote. I don't mind the cultural aspect, either (though, IMO, it's more reminicent of midieval Vulgaria & Sclavinia than classical Dacia & Illyria, but that's small beer). I just tire of it being the focus of everything. I'd like to see more distant areas developed as well. IMO, the "Known World" corner of Brun is too congested; a little Thyatian imperialism wouldn't hurt things, and then shift the focus to a larger region, beyond the "Known World" corner of Brun. Mystara is a big world. Every time they mention something new (I.E. Kastelios), it is intriguing. I'd like to see more like that at some future point. > > > There. I've said it. I feel much better now. > > All this talk about Thyatis vs. Alphatia (long live the emperor!) has got > me to thinking about that one nation which I probably dislike the most - > Karameikos. Why, do you ask? > > It's not that I don't like the cultural aspect (reminiscent of Illyria and > Dacia, IMO), it's just this: Karameikos is the single most overexposed, > over-detailled, and over-promoted nation in the KW (IMO). Sure, it's > great as a beginner's nation, they say - so is just about every other > nation. The Gaz series provides tons of info for campaigning at all > levels in every nation. What got my goat was that almost every B-level > module was placed in Karameikos (retroactively for some, I admit), where > putting some of them in other nations could have sufficed. Sure, any DM > could put them anywhere, but that's not the point of this (half-joking) > diatribe. > > Another thing - why does everything seem to happen in Karameikos? Just a > gut feeling. Is King Stephan REALLY all that important? Is the Known > World all that important for that matter - since there could easily be > equally sophisticated nations elsewhere? > > I hope I haven't offended any Karameikos fans out there, that was not the > intent. Other people have voiced their disfavour for various nations, and > I thought I'd do the same. :-) > > Thank you for listening to this diatribe - I feel much better now :). > > Geoff > > (who hopes King Stephan has a nasty accident) > > -- > Geoff Gander, BA 97 > Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon > Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog > au998@freenet.carleton.ca > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 06:29:05 +1000 From: stan Subject: [MYSTARA] - Amen Brother!!!! was (Re: I don't like Karameikos) At 15:42 06 07 98 -0400, Geoff cogently argued: >Sure, any DM >could put them anywhere, but that's not the point of this (half-joking) >diatribe. I dislike Karameikos too - and I'm not joking. :) >I hope I haven't offended any Karameikos fans out there, that was not the >intent. Admit it, you really do!!! >Geoff > >(who hopes King Stephan has a nasty accident) What the guy is turning 68 in AC 1016. If the guy doesn't at least die of natural causes in the next Almanac I'll be very dissapointed. Then again there is still room for him to die in a painful and grissly way. PS, although it's hard to get sarcasm across in a non-talking environment I hope you can appreciate that I'm continuing the joke - although I do dislike Karameikos anyway. >Geoff Gander, BA 97 >Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon >Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog Well _that_ explains a lot. stan http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 15:21:10 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Republic Darokin > > What are you telling us? Of course Darokin is a republic! > It's not a democratic republic like the USA, France or > Germany, but a republic nonetheless. On the other hand > Canada and Norway are democratic states, but no > republics. > Just about everything can be a Republic; despotic states run by Oligarchs (I.E. Darokin), Dictatorships, etc. are all Republics, because they don't have a hereditary ruling class. But you know what he was trying to say. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 15:26:20 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - BGPD > > This wish thing is too much, and even not needed! But you are > thinking too much in military terms. Alphatia has developed a > special kind of lifestyle with a lots of magic. The restrictions > of the Spell of Preservation would reduce this dramatically, so > the idea of a bubble of Outer World magic around the floating > continent is alright. > I respectfully disent. The Spell of Preservation would limit things some, but doesn't really interfier with the "magical lifestyle" all that much. The main restrictions are on rapid movement and certain divinatory magics. IMO, the "Alphatian Way of Life" will do just fine without access to such things. Sure, Mages can't Teleport. That is a big change. But they have flying beasts and ships, and they can still build their homes with magic, light them with magic, etc. > > BTW, I'm the opinion that Bellissaria should be developed properly. > their is something we can agree on, at least. IMO, a new "outer world" Alphatian Empire doesn't need to be the equal of the Thyatian Empire to keep Thyatis in check, any more than Thyatis needed to be equal in strength to the old Alphatian Empire in order to keep them in check. Various distractions will insure that Thyatis can never focus on any one target long enough to disrupt them. And a empire based on Belisaria would, over time, certainly become a match for puny Thyatis. It need not start out that way (especially since in the 1010s Thyatis itself is in no great shape). > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 15:33:47 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Agrandizing Alphatia (as if it needs agrandizement) > > Exactly the same opinion I have uttered in the past. I was even > not very content with the idea of placing the capital of the NACE > on Monster Island instead of Bellissaria which had been a much > better choice. > THEY PUT IT ON MONSTER ISLAND? ARE THEY INSANE? er. . .sorry to shout. . . . . Um, I hadn't noticed that when I was reading the OL PWA Continuator stuff, so it came as quite a shock when you mentioned it. Again, I appologize for the outburst. Of course the ONLY place to put the new capital would be on Bellissaria. There are several good potential locations (Horken or Princetown or Blueside or a "new" city on the spur/penninsula in the central lake, etc.) Heck, keeping it at Aquas would be better than Monster Island. Or on Floating Ar (though, IMC, I had them move the floating "islets" to a better locale.) Hmmmn. . .a combined "Floating Ar/Aquas" capital might be quite nice. Or a Floating Ar capital over that peninsula in the Bellissarian lake. Kinda reminding me of Thera all the sudden, though. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 16:48:00 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - BGPD In a message dated 98-07-06 14:34:00 EDT, jruhlconob@sprynet.com writes: << > sorry dude but i have to disagree with here. when alphatia sank, the bulk of > the alphatian armies were poised to strike glantri. being away from the > alphatian continent when it sank these warriors spared the drowning and > subsequent reawakening in hw. > Ahh, you don't have PWA II, where they gave Alphatia the most dominant army extant. I guess they recovered quickly, or something. . . . . . . . >> yes i have all of the pwas. if you look at the armies of the world section you'll see that those hw alphatian units are almost uniformly described as being reserve divisions. if you look at them you will also see that some have one of their regiments listed as normal humans (0-level). though these units are not the cream of the crop, they are rather large (for the most part 5300 personnel per division). accumulated they are probably the largest armed force in hw. now each description also says that many troops are dead or stranded on the surface. however if you compare the size of the reserve division to the kingdom's population the rreserve division makes for a greatly lessened percentage of the population. so imo the difference between the 20% wartime number and the number on hw alphatia are still topside either dead or displaced. of course the listed hw alphatia populations shoulsd be less than they were on the surface. this being that not all alphatians were revived after the sinking. for my randel gaz, i assigned a much higher population than the 128,000 listed in pwa2. canon material dictates that randel offers a greater proportion of troops to the imperial forces. as such more would be away fighting at the time of the sinking and the hw population would be further lessened. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 15:51:13 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic on Floating Alphatia. > > This wish thing is too much, and even not needed! > I was being sarcastic. (Though turning all 1,000 Council Members into Immortals was a good idea, I thought, since Immortals are not restricted by the SoP. . .) <----sarcasm again. > So let's go ahead with this: The Alphatians can continue their > life as usual on the continent > Ok, how about this for a compromise; a slight "tweaking" of the SoP as it affects the Floating Continent: Divination spells: Still affected (better for sneaky Wizards anyhow). Communication spells (I.E. Contact Other Plane, Sending): function normally, except when trying to communicate with someone elsewhere on the Hollow World (I.E. you can talk to your planar friend, communicate with your relatives on Bellissaria, but can't talk to the Nithians). Summoning: Summon creatures available on Alphatia (which is probably most anything). Can't Summon from Hollow World or Outter World. Spells of Instantanious Transport: To anywhere on the Floating Continent, but not to anywhere on the Hollow World or even to the Outter World (no Teleportation to Bellissaria). Spells of Planar Travel: IMO, not really needed for their "lifestyle", so still inaccessable. Immortals, if amused, might send Planar beasties to their pet mage in Alphatia on occassion if you want something to show up for adventure purposes. This limits them, but doesn't interfier with the "Alphatian Way of Life" in any important way. It isn't "rational" (since, I.E. you can talk with folks on the Outter World, but you can't Teleport to it), but the Immortals are fiddling with the rules that govern magic anyhow, and they can make any "loophole" they want (I.E. the "loophole" that while you can't reach the outter world instantly, you can communicate with it, if you are on the Alphatian FC.) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 15:46:44 -0500 From: "Timothy R. Haney" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos Geoff Gander, the traitor to Karameikos, wrote: > > Subject: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos *GASP* > There. I've said it. I feel much better now. ::we'll see how he feels with that head of his removed:: > Thank you for listening to this diatribe - I feel much better now :). ::we'll take that as fulfilling the last request rule:: How can you not *love* Karameikos?!?! It is the future! That decrepit Thyatian Empire... Stefan's new summer home. That greedy Darokin... Mirros's new trade ward. Those little hin... !chomp! Olivia's new garden. Rockhome... !slurp! The New Karameikan Mines. Withered ole Glantri... Bargle's Amusement Park. Ylaraum... the Karameikan Beach. The grazing Ethengarians... ah, who needs a big ole pasture? Resistance is futile! The Known World will be assimilated! ;> - -- This has been a Galwylin® Production The Tome of Galwylin (http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/) galwylin@airnet.net | ICQ #6755972 | AIM: Galwylin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 16:08:23 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Armies: all "reserves"? > > yes i have all of the pwas. if you look at the armies of the world section > you'll see that those hw alphatian units are almost uniformly described as > being reserve divisions. > I respectfully disent, and offer the following to support my argument: P 86: "Imperial Alphatian Guard" Elite Division. Strength: 5,283. Average Level: 6th P. 87 "Grand Imperial Alphatian Forces: Regular Division Number of Such Units: 15 Total Strength: 55,905 BR: 145. Average Level: 3rd. P. 87 "Legion of Denwarf-Hurgon" Regular Division Number of Such Units: 10 Total Strength: 7,500 BR: 1111. Average Level is "only" 1 though, same as for Thyatian regulars. P.88 "Imperial Alphatian Force of Shiye-Lawr" Regular Division Total Strength: 5,300 BR: 147 P.88 "Hordes of Limn" Regular Division Number of Such Units: 6 Total Strength: 9,288 BR: 127 Total Regular & Elite Forces: 33 units, 77,993 personel. Average BR: 135 (aprox). The only thing "missing" as far as Regulars go are the Naval Forces, which were omited because they are not available for a floating continent. The "Reserve Divisions" are less than 20% 0-level (1,000 of 5,300), and 500 are 2nd level (Regiment 6). The "Regular Divisions" (Cohorts) of Thyatis, a nation supposedly known for it's fighters, haven't even got the same amount of 2nd level fighters as the Alphatian "Reserve Divisions", btw, and these "Reserve Divisions" that you lament have comperable BRs (71 vs. 73) to Darokin's regular Legions. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 20:28:54 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic on the Floationg Continent of Alphatia At 22.51 05/07/98 +0100, Rob wrote: > >Also, given the previous debate on the power of magic, not all Alphatians >would actually have wish in their spellbooks - given the number of 9th level >spells, only about half would. And of those half, perhaps only half of >those have the required intelligence. Why should a mage have in his spellbook a spell he cannot cast? And how he got it? - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 17:26:25 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - BGPD At 03:26 PM 7/6/98 -0500, James Ruhland wrote: IMO, a new "outer world" >Alphatian Empire doesn't need to be the equal of the Thyatian Empire to >keep Thyatis in check, any more than Thyatis needed to be equal in strength >to the old Alphatian Empire in order to keep them in check. Various >distractions will insure that Thyatis can never focus on any one target >long enough to disrupt them. > And a empire based on Belisaria would, over time, certainly become a match >for puny Thyatis. It need not start out that way (especially since in the >1010s Thyatis itself is in no great shape). Hmm, an empire based on Belisaria would, no doubt, be much more introverted than the former monolith. The people of Belisaria, in general, are crotchety and don't take well to strangers. Therefore I don't see this theoretical "empire" as being very colonistic (I think I just made that word up...means either "an empire that likes to build colonies", or "pertaining to the colon"...) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 17:25:02 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos In a message dated 7/6/98 3:58:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, au998@freenet.carleton.ca writes: > Sure, it's > great as a beginner's nation, they say - so is just about every other > nation. The Gaz series provides tons of info for campaigning at all > levels in every nation. That's true, but Karameikos is the perfect beginers campaign for several reasons. You have contact with all the major demihuman races, a King as a ruler (like any stereotypical medieval enviornment), and it's prominently human (making it easier to roleplay out). Many Gaz's are easy to understand, but having a backround of Karameikos will give a better overall understanding of the D&D game as a whole. > Another thing - why does everything seem to happen in Karameikos? Just a > gut feeling. What are you referring to here? > Is King Stephan REALLY all that important? Yes, i believe so. He seems to be the heart of the country as a whole. He stands for a rebel to the overbearing thyatis and in the fashion of standing up for one's beliefs. He's the perfect hero/leader and that does make him important. > Is the Known > World all that important for that matter - since there could easily be > equally sophisticated nations elsewhere? Okay, can someone see if he's having a fever over here? ;Ţ - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 16:20:58 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic on the Floationg Continent of Alphatia > > Why should a mage have in his spellbook a spell he cannot cast? > A guy can dream, can't he? > And how he got it? A better question. However, it would be possible to have the spell in your library (in, for example, a "found" spellbook, or better yet "granpapa's ol' Spellbook") I.E. some relative could cast the spell, and thus it's still in the family archives, even if the current dude can't cast it. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 17:37:58 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos In a message dated 7/6/98 4:37:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jruhlconob@sprynet.com writes: > I just tire of it being the focus of everything. Okay, how about WotI? That's one of the biggest events of Known World history. The focus? Glantri and Alphatia........secondary focuses? Thyatis and Darokin. Karameikos played a very small part in that war. Where has Karameikos ever been the focal point before? (other than the gaz and modules concerning Karameikos only) - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 16:48:34 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos > Karameikos played a very small part in that war. > Yah, they were too busy abandoning old friends and agrandizing themselves to get involved. > > Where has Karameikos ever been the focal point before? (other than the gaz and > modules concerning Karameikos only) > Karameikos is the focus of a whole lot of (universally benificial) attention in the PWAs. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 16:54:13 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bellissarian "Empire" > > Hmm, an empire based on Belisaria would, no doubt, be much more introverted > than the former monolith. The people of Belisaria, in general, are > crotchety and don't take well to strangers. Therefore I don't see this > theoretical "empire" as being very colonistic. > So? So long as a Bellissarian-centered Empire would help out the other Alphatian remnants, it's beside the point whether they are interested in expanding to, say, the Pearl Islands or not. And, IMO, dudes like Broderik insure that they will be interested in helping out the rest of the Alphatian areas of Mystara. Where else would you center it? Monster Island is full of Monsters, not Alphatians, Thothia is full of Thothians (Nithians); Bellissaria has the largest Outter World population of Alphatians, and is big enough to grow into a force. Also, "introverted" areas are quite capable of being or becoming "extroverted" at need. Take "Isolationistic" America: willing to fight for a colonial empire 100 years ago (the Spanish-American War), intervene in Europe twice in a row (WWI & WWII), if "belatedly" (but see below), and a host of other external junk (including diplomacy et al, numerous smallish interventions, etc.) It isn't so much important that a Bellissarian Empire intervene *immediately*, just so that it intervenes *eventually*, which will keep others (I.E. Thyatis) in check. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 16:57:37 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos > > Yes, i believe so. He seems to be the heart of the country as a whole. He > stands for a rebel to the overbearing thyatis and in the fashion of standing > up for one's beliefs. He's the perfect hero/leader and that does make him > important. > Not to mention his booted heel on the neck of the Traldarans, and letting the "overbearing Thyati[an]" nobility he brought with him run rampant over "traditional" Traldaran aristocrats (which your "overbearing Thyatians" had left largely untouched. . .befor Stefan took over). As I said before, Stefan just had excellent propagandists, willing to excuse his every fault and paint everything in the best possible light for him. It doesn't take much tweaking of the words used to describe events---and no change in "Karameikan" History, to show the "Dark Side" of Stefan. Perhaps he's really Lawful Evil after all. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 15:04:57 PDT From: "Joshuan Gallidox Publishing" Subject: [MYSTARA] - 1015 Almanac strikes back! Hi everybody, Joshuan Publishing Inc. is proud to announce tha version 1.1 of the popular Mystaran Almanac for AC 1015 is now available. You can download it from our Karameikan site http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/9037 or request it for free to our e-Mail Sales Dept.: brizio@lunet.it - --------------------- What's new in version 1.1 * Reformatted into .doc (Word 97) and .rtf format * Typos corrected * "Shadow Elves", "shadowelves", "shadow elves" thing (hopefully) fixed * Added new events for Glantri by Andrew Theisen * Added new NPCs by Andrew Theisen * Credits given to Shawn Stanley (Gombar and Suma'a) and Steve Wilson. * Some events for NACE and Alphatia reworded * Added 1 new event for Alphatia by Herve Musseau - ---------------------- Note that this is not the final version yet, as it does not include HW events, predictions for 1016 and a few other things. The final deluxe version (with logos and maybe maps) will be ready soon. _________________________________ Joshuan Gallidox Publishing publisher of the Mystaran Almanac ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 17:09:37 -0500 From: "E Gray" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos - -----Original Message----- From: Geoff Gander To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM Date: Monday, July 06, 1998 2:58 PM Subject: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos >Another thing - why does everything seem to happen in Karameikos? Everything? Hardly...but I'll explain the why later.. >Just a gut feeling. Is King Stephan REALLY all that important? No, but he's convenient....see that's the problem with > Is the Known World all that important for that matter - since there could >easily be equally sophisticated nations elsewhere? See, the problem isn't that the places are really that important, it's just that, well the authors/creators/etc, are sorta lazy, they only want to work with one small thing, not trying to encompass the whole. Sorta the same way everything happens around the Enterprise in the ST universe(well, ok now it's Voyager and DS9, but you get the picture). >(who hopes King Stephan has a nasty accident) If it makes you feel any better he was killed in a D&D game I played once. We were supposed to save him from some assassins, but had some REALLY bad rolls... }:+) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #471 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, July 6 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 472 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatian Military Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos Re: [MYSTARA] - Timeline junk Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos [MYSTARA] - West End Games goes bankrupt Re: [MYSTARA] - West End Games goes bankrupt Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones Re: [MYSTARA] - EXTRA EXTRA! Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones Re: [MYSTARA] - Timeline junk ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 18:15:39 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatian Military In a message dated 98-07-06 15:01:40 EDT, jruhlconob@sprynet.com writes: << > > not to seem to be singling you out....but i have to disagree with you again. > TSR had a definite tendency to favor thyatis. this favoratism was not as bad > early on. after aaron allston became the main product author, things went > definitely against alphatia. look at dawn of the emperors very little on > alphatia. what is described focuses on the negative aspects of alphatia. > I may swoon, that's hardly. . .accurate.>> be not so quick to judgement. <> as do the heldannic knights. and the master od hule too for that matter. though his air fleet is small. thyatis has the retebius air fleet and knights of the air. glantri has their fireflies and most recently (net almanac ac1015) their own skyships and derigibles. the shadow elves have skin wings. the hw milenians have their griffon riders. the hw nithians have their flying barges. hw shattenalfen have skinwings. so alphatia is not the only nation with an aerial capability. added to that is their own skyship fleet was depleted due to the fires during wrath of the immortals. <> but always kept in check by the thyatian stalemate. alphatian borders were pretty stagnant. <> i agree here. however emphasis was placed on the alphatian attitude and lack of concern for the commoners and people of norwold. and with a member of the imperial family in need. but yes all participating nations were presented with their good and bad sides. <> the princess ark stuff was interesting. i greeted that material wholeheartily. still you can see aspects of alphatian society even there. still, it was one of the best and even handed demonstrations of alphatian folk i have yet to see. <> yes...you wage a war to preserve the worlds magic. you defeat your age old foe thyatis and remove them from the melee (btw with less damage than expected). then with overall victory in sight, your imperial capital is destroyed and the continent sunk. your outer world holdings are partly overrun by thyatians. and to add insult to injury the world has this perception that alphatia was the cause of the war. and let us not forget the cause of the war, the radiance, is still afoot. then there is the loss of the surface imperial family. the loss of family. each stranded alphatian had to have friends and family back on alphatia. <> forgot the slave revolts and bread riots. not to mention the reverses seen in the ac1015 net almanac. the way i see it thyatis can not get much worse. anything eusebius does should make things better. just look at thyatis and how it recovered after the previous alphatian invasions. each invasion saw a change with its emperor who did much to rebuild the empire. btw- at least thyatis still has its government intact. whereas the surface alphatians are dispersed and without a centraloized government like the old imperium. << By the end of the PWAs, Thyatis is in ruins, while Alphatia is *definately* on its way to Hegemonic domination of both the HW & the Outter World.>> i would not say the alphatians dominate either world yet. both have the potential. but time to rebuild is needed to consolidate their power and holdings and assess what they have and what needs to be done. mostly they have to rebuild their infrastructure. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 17:14:54 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos I definately have to bow to your wisdom on the below. I have been enlightened. Now, back to bashing the FR. > > See, the problem isn't that the places are really that important, it's just > that, well the authors/creators/etc, are sorta lazy, they only want to work > with one small thing, not trying to encompass the whole. Sorta the same > way everything happens around the Enterprise in the ST universe(well, ok now > it's Voyager and DS9, but you get the picture). > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 18:25:50 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos Inconu wrote: > > Karameikos played a very small part in that war. In a message dated 7/6/98 6:09:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jruhlconob@sprynet.com writes: > Yah, they were too busy abandoning old friends and agrandizing themselves > to get involved. Which proves my point that they aren't always the focus, or for the case in point, not even a secondary focus. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 18:33:52 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos In a message dated 7/6/98 6:16:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jruhlconob@sprynet.com writes: > Not to mention his booted heel on the neck of the Traldarans, and letting > the "overbearing Thyati[an]" nobility he brought with him run rampant over > "traditional" Traldaran aristocrats (which your "overbearing Thyatians" had > left largely untouched. . .befor Stefan took over). Are we talking about the same country here? First off, Stefan is the only reason that there can be any peace between the Thayatins and Traladrans. If it wasn't for him, do you really think Thyatis would be treating them well now? Give me a break. Thyatis would just be creating a few more buildings to hold the new slaves in. You're kidding yourself if you really think Thyatis would show any leniency to the Traladrans. > As I said before, Stefan just had excellent propagandists, willing to > excuse his every fault and paint everything in the best possible light for > him. It doesn't take much tweaking of the words used to describe > events---and no change in "Karameikan" History, to show the "Dark Side" of > Stefan. The Dark Side? Can you elaborate on that assumption? > Perhaps he's really Lawful Evil after all. Yeah, that bastard......doesn't give a damn about his people huh? I don't mind the cultural aspect, either (though, IMO, it's more >reminicent of midieval Vulgaria & Sclavinia than classical Dacia & Illyria, >but that's small beer). I just tire of it being the focus of everything. Vulgaria and Sclavania? > I'd like to see more distant areas developed as well. IMO, the "Known >World" corner of Brun is too congested; a little Thyatian imperialism >wouldn't hurt things, and then shift the focus to a larger region, beyond >the "Known World" corner of Brun. This is sort of what I've been doing in my bit for the Net-Almanac - drawing attention to other parts of the world. I'm not saying that the Known World is bad, just that it's not the centre of all that is important on Mystara. hey - you've got two other continents. >Every time they mention something new (I.E. Kastelios), it is intriguing. I'd like to see more like that at some future point. Your wish is our command! :-) Geoff PS - I'm probably a Davania nut, so I guess I'm just as bad as some other people ;-). Those who have listened to my tracts on Kastelios will know of what I speak. - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 18:51:33 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos Inconu said: >That's true, but Karameikos is the perfect beginers campaign for several >reasons. You have contact with all the major demihuman races, a King as a >ruler (like any stereotypical medieval enviornment), and it's prominently >human (making it easier to roleplay out). Many Gaz's are easy to understand, >but having a backround of Karameikos will give a better overall understanding >of the D&D game as a whole. You're right on that point - Karameikos is good for intros, but since we're arguing our points, I'd have to say Glantri is good, too (you've got demihumans, a mixture of urban and rural settings, plus wilderness, and princes who rule their principalities almost like kingdoms). Likewise, Darokin meets these same criteria by and large, so do Thyatis and Alphatia (I'm thinking of specific Alphatian kingdoms here - many of which are really nations in their own right). In the end, it's up to DM and player preference - some people want to be nomadic horse warriors, others want to be halflings. >> Another thing - why does everything seem to happen in Karameikos? Just a >> gut feeling. > >What are you referring to here? > I guess I should clear this up a bit. I get the feeling, from reading the Gazes, and especially the PWAs, that most of the great heroes, innovators, villains, and so on seem to originate in Karameikos, or have connections there. You've got Bargle and the Black Eagle (who should be known to any DM - and few villains IMO come close to them in notoriety), while we've got the Karameikan Polar Expedition and Claransa the Seer as the major explorers of the Hollow World, not to mention Joshuan and his Almanac, as well. You've also got the larger-than-life Stephan himself, who, although he has his work cut out for him, never really seems to suffer the same setbacks as other rulers. The nation as a whole seems to be doing remarkably well given the fact that there was an earth-shattering war a few years earlier. I dunno, it just seems to me that Karameikos is getting off TOO easily, and it seems to be the centre of more action (directly or not) than should really be possibly (IMO) for a nation of its size. That's all. >Yes, i believe so. He seems to be the heart of the country as a whole. He >stands for a rebel to the overbearing thyatis and in the fashion of standing >up for one's beliefs. He's the perfect hero/leader and that does make him >important. > Okay, you've got a good point there. Mind you, I like the overbearing Thyatians ;-) >Okay, can someone see if he's having a fever over here? ;Ţ > No prob! My temperature's only 150, I'm okay. The spots swimming before my eyes are perfectly normal...;) Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 17:56:49 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Timeline junk > > as do the heldannic knights. and the master od hule too for that matter. > Thouse are hardly the equivilent of Alphatian "Men of War". Small aerial skiffs that the Alphatian Men of War can blow apart. . . . > though his air fleet is small. thyatis has the retebius air fleet and knights > of the air. > Not in the PWAs. . . . > glantri has their fireflies and most recently (net almanac ac1015) > their own skyships and derigibles. > Except for fireflies (which have numerous limitations compaired to the Alphatian flying ships), they are not canonical, and hardly worth worrying about (constantly crashing from what little I've read so far. > the shadow elves have skin wings. the hw > milenians have their griffon riders. the hw nithians have their flying barges. > Again, all of limited utility compaired to the Alphatian variety. > hw shattenalfen have skinwings. so alphatia is not the only nation with an > aerial capability. added to that is their own skyship fleet was depleted due > to the fires during wrath of the immortals. > I actually thought that was a raw deal, but I guess the designers had to figure out a way of eliminating the Alphatian Men of War (c.f "Champions of Mystara": I may be misnaming them since I haven't the patience to dig for the data right now). > <> > > but always kept in check by the thyatian stalemate. alphatian borders were > pretty stagnant. > "Stagnant" at larger than the Known World. In fact, numerous sub-areas of Alphatia are by themselves larger than the Known World. I will list them separately: Alphatia (Metropolitan) Bellissaria Norwold Esterhold Isle of Dawn (Alph. region). > > i agree here. however emphasis was placed on the alphatian attitude and lack > of concern for the commoners and people of norwold. and with a member of the > imperial family in need. but yes all participating nations were presented with > their good and bad sides. > Which was one of the reasons I loved gaming up there, even though the idea of my characters living in the cold "Great White North" aesthetically did not appeal to me. Heh, Erical was just like Stefan: completely worthless. Which was a *GOOD* thing because it meant the PCs were the heros. 8-) > > <> > > yes...you wage a war to preserve the worlds magic. you defeat your age old foe > thyatis and remove them from the melee (btw with less damage than expected). > then with overall victory in sight, your imperial capital is destroyed and the > continent sunk. your outer world holdings are partly overrun by thyatians. and > to add insult to injury the world has this perception that alphatia was the > cause of the war. and let us not forget the cause of the war, the radiance, is > still afoot. then there is the loss of the surface imperial family. the loss > of family. each stranded alphatian had to have friends and family back on > alphatia. > They get a completely rebuilt nation, floating invulnerably above the Hollow World, the Thothians gain back everything that is lost to the Thyatians, and hand it over to the NACE, Zandor & Broderic put the outter world "remnants" (hardly feeble scraps) together, then Zandor is disapeared by the game designers (eliminating a potentially fun villian), turning everything over to "mom" to run by remote from the HW. A brand new free army is gifted to you, 78,000 strong, which is more powerful than any potential enemy (admittedly, getting it to a battlefield is difficult, except for the IAG, which is "only" less than 6,000 strong, and also no enemy can get to you, thus your invulnerability.) You get a new Imperial Capital. If you've suffered losses, they pale in significance to what is gained (dominion over all of Mystara, HW & OW), and Alphatia is *still* far and away the most powerful nation in the entire AD&D/D&D multiverse (even more potent, IMO, than nations that rule several crystal spheres). > > forgot the slave revolts and bread riots. not to mention the reverses seen in > the ac1015 net almanac. the way i see it thyatis can not get much worse. > My point exactly, as far as canon goes (and I didn't forget that junk, I just didn't feel the specific need to mention it, since my point was/is made without the need of doing so). And I ignore the Continuator stuff as if it doesn't exist. I refuse to acnowledge its existance officially (while constantly refering to it obliquely). > anything eusebius does should make things better. > Except that it was obvious, at least to me anyhow, that they eventually planned on turning him into Caligula (various hints in the materiel, if you know your history, indicate this). > just look at thyatis and how > it recovered after the previous alphatian invasions. each invasion saw a > change with its emperor who did much to rebuild the empire. btw- at least > thyatis still has its government intact. whereas the surface alphatians are > dispersed and without a centraloized government like the old imperium. > At the end of the (published/canon) PWAs they were agreeing to follow "mom", and confederate. Thus the NACE, the figment of someone's feavered imagination. IMO, it would actually be more fun if they *were* dispursed and without a centralized government, as far as campaign play. Thyatis (as you've described) has enough problems of it's own and IMO could never conquer Bellisaria & the other Alphatian former colonies; thus it makes it more intriguing, game-play wise, to have them separate, perhaps scheming, and thus providing adventure oportunities. But others disagree, and I guess a NACE, or something like it, is inevitable if/when TSR revives Mystara in their own publication plans. > > i would not say the alphatians dominate either world yet. both have the > potential. > They are clearly on the way, and that was clearly the intention. It was bad enough giving them an entirely rebuilt army in one year (1010-1011), even TSR couldn't go so far as to entirely rebuild their dominance on the OW by 1012. They weren't that grotesque. Not quite. . . .but close. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 18:05:00 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos > > Vulgaria and Sclavania? > AKA "Bulgaria" and "Slavia" (Serbia), "Byzantinized". > > This is sort of what I've been doing in my bit for the Net-Almanac - > drawing attention to other parts of the world. I'm not saying that the > Known World is bad, just that it's not the centre of all that is important > on Mystara. hey - you've got two other continents. > And the Known World is even just a small corner of Brun, hardly the majority of the continent. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 16:11:23 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic >Yes, but it doesn't really count here. This is Mystara, not generic AD&D. >We have a system of Our own. (This is D&D You know ;-) >Pasi I think that both AD&D and D&D need to be addressed here, not just D&D since there are two versions of Mystara at large. Maybe there should be some notation in the subject lines as to whether one is addressing AD&D or D&D when posting to the list? Later. Jesse. vanquer@softhome.net ICQ. 8004143 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 18:08:30 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos > > You're right on that point - Karameikos is good for intros, but since > we're arguing our points, I'd have to say Glantri is good, too > Glantri has some nasty, controvluted politics, however. Though I guess you don't have to introduce beginners to that until later. Perhaps not until it's too late. . . . . Muhahahahahahaha! > the fact that there was an earth-shattering war a few years earlier. I > dunno, it just seems to me that Karameikos is getting off TOO easily, > That's my main beef. Karameikos gets everything handed to them on a silver platter (heck, even it's "own" problem was handled for them by the Hin!), and nothing bad ever happens to them (nothing bad in a long term way; oh, their is the occassional dragon or other "problem", but if you just read to the next month, you'll find it's gone away, and mystically left Karameikos somehow stronger than it was before the "disaster" occured). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 18:19:38 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos > > Are we talking about the same country here? First off, Stefan is the only > reason that there can be any peace between the Thayatins and Traladrans. If it > wasn't for him, do you really think Thyatis would be treating them well now? > The Traldarans were left undisturbed by Thatis for about a century (I'll have to look up the exact time), until Stefan arrived. Stefan immediately disposessed the Traldaran land holders & aristocrats, which Thyatis had left to govern their own affairs undisturbed. He handed out the property he had expropriated to his friends and cronies, giving them a free hand and turning a blind eye to their excesses. The most agregious of these had to be dealt with by the 5 Shires, because of Stefan's feckless irresponsibility (heh, he was a bad liege as well as an ignoble man: he didn't protect his vassal, as a good liege would do, nor did he help eliminate the evil, as a good man would do. He just sat on the sidelines, ignoring his responsibility). He betrayed his friend Thincol at the later's time of greatest need, even though Thincol had been most generous to him, granting him complete, autonomous control over a fief much larger and valuable than the one (Machetos) he stood to inherit. Last time I checked, expropriating people's property, giving a free hand to folks who opress the citizens, and backstabbing your friends when they need you the most, these things were not the acts of a Lawful Good person. And this is only a partial, incomplete, litany of the acts of Stefan Karameikos, self-serving tyrant. As I said, he just had good propagantists (at TSR & elsewhere) to cast his actions in the most benevolent light possible. But just because they used rhetoric to describe him positively, that doesn't make the acts themselves any less wicked and treacherous. > > As I said before, Stefan just had excellent propagandists, willing to > > excuse his every fault and paint everything in the best possible light for > > him. It doesn't take much tweaking of the words used to describe > > events---and no change in "Karameikan" History, to show the "Dark Side" of > > Stefan. > > The Dark Side? Can you elaborate on that assumption? > > > Perhaps he's really Lawful Evil after all. > > Yeah, that bastard......doesn't give a damn about his people huh? > -Inconu > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 19:41:13 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - West End Games goes bankrupt Hey all, I know this is off topic, but I though everyone here should know. I heard over the Paranoia RPG message boards today that West End Games, maker of Paranoia, Star Wars, Ghostbusters, and other games, has filed for bankruptcy. WEG was a fair-sized RPG company that had a good share of the market since the mid-1980s. Apparently all the Star Wars staff were fired last week, and our WEG net rep who participated in our Paranoia-related discussions curtly said "Show's over." Looks like another player in the market has gone under - I wonder who's next... Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 18:41:59 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - West End Games goes bankrupt > > Looks like another player in the market has gone under - I wonder who's > next... > Damn, that sucks. And I, for one, still haven't gotten over the loss of GDW, or the disapearance of Judges Guild, for that matter. . . . . (Not to mention the "reorganization" of TSR, which moved out out of Lake Geneva. Being from Madison, Wis., myself, that was tough.) *sigh* I just hope FASA sticks around at this point. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 16:58:04 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones >Old Ones are just Mystara Overpowers (ex: FR Lord Ao). I think this could >work, except perhaps the fact that probably all overpowers could be >considered Old Ones (I guess it's just a concept of point of views..). >>Course I've also decided to take the view that the Immortals are gods as >>in other settings. Maybe they could be more powerful or less than gods >>but I've not seen anything at all that tells me exactly what an Immortal >>is, why they take names of gods, and why they need worshippers at all. >Correct: Immortals are the Gods of the Mystara Multiverse, and they are >both referred as gods or deities or immortals. >DM the Enigmatic One TM ;p Above conversation between DM> and Tim Haney>> How about this: Old Ones refers to all of the so-called "Overlords" the Lady of Pain, Dark Powers, Red Death, Ao. They all originated on Mystara and have since moved on and become involved in other areas. Immortals are, as stated, simply Mystara's name for Gods. Many people can claim that this is the "egotism" of Mystara, but sure as Mystara/Blackmoor began D&D which evolved into AD&D, Mystara's Old Ones began and evolved. Later. Jesse. vanquer@softhome.net ICQ. 8004143 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 18:12:32 -0600 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - EXTRA EXTRA! Rob meandered fecklessly... > Some people hate that sort of stuff, but I think its cool. Humour is > important - it is a game, after all. Humourless players should be referred > to Vampire, the Masquerade, in my opinion :) Bah! You ain't seen humour in a game until you've roleplayed through the Seattle Malkavian Christmas Ball! One of the most hysterical evening of roleplaying our group has ever been through. > (No insult to Vampire players. I play Vampire as well, on occasion!) Ohhh, no insult taken... Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com ICQ #14585470 "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 19:10:05 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones > > Old Ones refers to all of the so-called "Overlords" the Lady of Pain, > Dark Powers, Red Death, Ao. They all originated on Mystara and have since > moved on and become involved in other areas. Immortals are, as stated, > simply Mystara's name for Gods. > Hmmmn. . .I'm not sure I want the "Old Ones" to have a face (even a faceless one like Ao and the Dark Powers). IMO, it is better to leave them as enigmatic as possible, and identifying them kind of reduces the mystique. > Many people can claim that this is the "egotism" of Mystara, but sure as > Mystara/Blackmoor began D&D which evolved into AD&D, Mystara's Old Ones > began and evolved. > That part however I did like. But since you can't have the one (they all came from Mystara) without the other (who they are), I'm in a quandary. Anyhow, as a newbie to the MML, perhaps I should just shaddup. *a chorus of cheers arise from the ether of E-space* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 20:38:16 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Timeline junk >> glantri has their fireflies and most recently (net almanac ac1015) >> their own skyships and derigibles. >> James Ruhland said: >Except for fireflies (which have numerous limitations compaired to the >Alphatian flying ships), they are not canonical, and hardly worth worrying >about (constantly crashing from what little I've read so far. > Actually, if by fireflies you mean Volospin's Dragonfly of Doom, then they are canonical, having been originally described in AC 11 (The Book of WOndrous Inventions) - and they are rather formidable. >Except that it was obvious, at least to me anyhow, that they eventually >planned on turning him into Caligula (various hints in the materiel, if you >know your history, indicate this). > Pardon my ignorance, but what was Caligula like as a Roman Emperor? Myself, I only know a handful of them by name. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #472 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, July 7 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 473 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic (Was: Terari mets El) Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! [MYSTARA] - Me Too post Re: [MYSTARA] - Timeline junk Re: [MYSTARA] - Timeline junk Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like the Timeline [MYSTARA] - I DO happen to like Karameikos (big surprise) Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic [MYSTARA] - For all you Karamekian anti-fans (and fans, too) Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Re: [MYSTARA] - I DO happen to like Karameikos (big surprise) Re: [MYSTARA] - For all you Karamekian anti-fans (and fans, too) Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Re: [MYSTARA] - West End Games goes bankrupt Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatian Military Re: [MYSTARA] - EXTRA EXTRA! Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis, Mystara, and the tone of the World ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 20:40:20 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic (Was: Terari mets El) On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, Anias Pasi wrote: > facts: -There WAS magic before core or NoS > -The Mystaran Magic works in planes (no core nor NoS) > -Not all mages (none but glantrian) use NoS True enough. But Mystarans don't need to have the World-Shield, or the NoS (which acts only as a focuser to non Radience mages). The WS and the NoS only act to create the E-M filed around a Myataran to allow them to manipulate the force called magic. Of course, magic on the planes is subject to whether that plane has magic imbued in it :) Of course, being a physicist, I always look at the totally scientific explainiations (and am an avid fan of Technomancy, you'll all find out about *THAT* soon enough!) Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 20:43:10 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, paul dooley wrote: > >Magic in Blackmoor was very unrefined. I wish I had the DA supplements This line is from conjecture in WoTI and other books/random knowledge I heard somewhere. Remember, the NoS made magic (the sphere of energy) stronger. The Immortals weakened it some by making the Rad levels, but it is still there controlling the magic force of Mystara. Remember, the Week w/o Magic was caused by the Radience overloading. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 17:46:59 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Me Too post >When I first played a Scottish NPC I put on a stage scots accent. >Half way through the adventure the players went "Wait a minute, >you're putting on a scottish accent! Just speak normally!" Harrumph. >I never say it's a braw bricht moonlicht nicht irl, but I sure want >McAlister to say it :) >Do you think you could give us (or me privately, if nobody else is >interested) a few pointers on how to speak with Scottish accent? I've always >wanted to learn it :) >****************** >Aleksei Andrievski Sorry everyone for the "me-too" post but... Me too :-) Later. Jesse. vanquer@softhome.net ICQ. 8004143 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 19:44:24 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Timeline junk > >> > James Ruhland said: > I always rant (haven't you noticed? or were you just being kind?) I refer to my own posts as: "ranting screeds" > >Except for fireflies (which have numerous limitations compaired to the > >Alphatian flying ships), they are not canonical, and hardly worth worrying > >about (constantly crashing from what little I've read so far. > > > Actually, if by fireflies you mean Volospin's Dragonfly of Doom, then they > are canonical, having been originally described in AC 11 (The Book of > WOndrous Inventions) - and they are rather formidable. > That's why I said "except for fireflies. . .they are not canonical". Perhaps for clarity I should have written "with the exception of fireflies. . .they are not canonical" (I.E. the other junk isn't). Fireflies are formidable, except when compaired to the Alphatian Men of War (from Champions of Mystara), which would eat 'em for lunch. Plus, they are limited by their fuel source, which is localized. > > > Pardon my ignorance, but what was Caligula like as a Roman Emperor? > Myself, I only know a handful of them by name. > Caius Julius Caesar Augustus aka "Caligula" ("little boots", a nickname he was given by legionaries when he was a child & his papa took him on campaign. C.F. "Little general") started out ok, but seems to have gone mad (meglomania?) at some point, making his Horse Consul, massacreing his enemies, and eventually getting himself overthrown for being an overbearing boor & general disgrace to the Purple. The Roman Empire weathered his disolute, inglorious rule rather well, but the RE of the 1st Century A.D. was a farily vibrant, strong realm, unlike Thyatis of 1010s AC, which probably wouldn't survive a disasterous "Michael the Chalker" type reign. What Thyatis needs is a "Michael the Paphlagonian" type reign, but which lasts longer that that poor sod's reign did. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 19:48:29 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Timeline junk > > > Caius Julius Caesar Augustus aka "Caligula" ("little boots", a nickname he > was given by legionaries when he was a child & his papa took him on > campaign. C.F. "Little general") > Clarification: btw, not to be confused with more famous "Julius Caesars" (which is why he's universally refered to by his nickname, "Caligula", rather than his proper name). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 20:58:06 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic On Mon, 6 Jul 1998, Nicholas Hudson wrote: > This, if I have read the Poor Wizard's Almanac correctly, is also > before the world was hollowed out. Of course, the World Shield was The world has always been hollow, contrary to what the Gold Box says. Read the HW rules for this ruling.The entrances to the old HW were smaller, but the cavern was the same size. Ka discovered it soon after becoming Immortal IIRC. > Shield, this fits in well with what has been presented earlier. > Mystara's moons either have their own World Shields or use Mystara's. IIRC a world-shield is just what Mystara's "core" is. Ergo, any planet with a core has magic. Unless an Immortal chooses to not give it magic. > Everybody grok that? Yes, Spock ;) You make valid points, but IMO, Every Mystaran, or person born on a planet with a magical "core" is born with the ability to wield magic (i.e. Play with Elecrtomagnetic fields to produce effects) This is carried with them no matter where they go. Max IV - thinking of adding a few pages about the physics of Mystaran Magic to his Technomancy treatise. Maybe changing his views on Blackmoor magic too. I dunno. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 21:07:44 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos In a message dated 7/6/98 7:03:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, au998@freenet.carleton.ca writes: > I guess I should clear this up a bit. I get the feeling, from reading the > Gazes, and especially the PWAs, that most of the great heroes, > innovators, villains, and so on seem to originate in Karameikos, or > have connections there. Okay, I'm glad you cleared that up. I agree with you here. It seems to me the best reason for this would be to say that since TSR had Karameikos as the most basic beginner's setting, most of the first NPCs would originate from different places in that country. In other Gaz's there may be a history of certain NPCs as originating from certain towns/cities in Karameikos just for the beginners whom are ready to tackle another country have reference points to keep them on track. So they don't get confused. This is total speculation of course, but it's the best explanation i can think of for what you stated. > Mind you, I like the overbearing > Thyatians ;-) Yeah, well who can't love the Thyatians ;P > No prob! My temperature's only 150, I'm okay. The spots swimming before > my eyes are perfectly normal...;) Whoa! he he he...... i guess that explains it. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 21:15:07 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos In a message dated 7/6/98 7:28:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jruhlconob@sprynet.com writes: > That's my main beef. Karameikos gets everything handed to them on a silver > platter (heck, even it's "own" problem was handled for them by the Hin!), > and nothing bad ever happens to them (nothing bad in a long term way; oh, > their is the occassional dragon or other "problem", but if you just read to > the next month, you'll find it's gone away, and mystically left Karameikos > somehow stronger than it was before the "disaster" occured). Okay, i can agree with this point here. Karameikos never has had a major challenge to survive. why? Well, you must remember how young this country really is in comparison to all the other known world countries. However, it is now old enough to experience a real test. I mean, Thyatis gets run over every year with problems of huge proportions. Plagues, slave revolts, wererats, etc..... I think Karameikos is soon to have a problem. Not something that's going to destroy the country, but maybe something that can really test it. Just like all other tests, if they pass, they become stronger...... - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 20:42:02 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like the Timeline Actually, that's not *precisely* true, just as it isn't *precisely true that I think Stefan is Evil (but, note, it doesn't take much to portray him like that: remember that when you read about Thyatis, or Alphatia, and them being "evil". It depends on the "press" you get. . . .), but see below. > > However, it is now old enough to experience a real test. I mean, Thyatis gets > run over every year with problems of huge proportions. Plagues, slave revolts, > wererats, etc..... I think Karameikos is soon to have a problem. Not something > that's going to destroy the country, but maybe something that can really test > it. Just like all other tests, if they pass, they become stronger...... > That brings me back to my problem with the timeline: the scripted results. In the best of all possible worlds (which admitedly, only Pangloss thinks we live in), the results would be open ended. . .and to *some* degree they are. But, in the best of all possible worlds it would be the actions of players which would determine whether these "tests" are passed or failed. Of course, players can't be everywhere at once, and so the timeline is very useful for bringing life to areas they aren't at. Also, it can present the players with delemas (muhahahahaha!): do they deal with this problem, or do they help solve this other one? However, *if* the players are involved, and their actions produce a contrary result (I.E. they "fail" where otherwise the test would have been "passed", or, as is hopefully more likely, they help insure the test is "passed" where otherwise it would have been "failed"), the scripted timeline becomes that much less useful. I.E. if the cause of the mummy rot is determined, and its effects foiled, and supplies of grain found, then their is no plague, which aleviates (but not nessisarily eliminates) riots and revolts, and a certain nation is stronger than it otherwise would have been, and ready to face the tests of the future with more reserves of strength. Thouse players may also "pay back" the cause of the infection of the grain supply; that might have an effect on the balance of power on the Isle of Dawn (Hetieratia Augustiana*, here we come. . . .). Pretty soon things are significantly different in a large portion of the world. Either that, or as DM you make sure things stay "on track," which means that the actions of the PCs are futile and pointless, which does not appeal to me (no matter what they do, the outcome is the same in the long run; IMO, that is a very bad path to go down). Point is, the timeline can be useful, but it has limitations which become more and more apparent as time goes on, especially if PCs like to "intervene" in lots of diferent places, thus gradually making the "histories" of a variety of nations different than the Timeline indicates. I don't know how to "fix" that problem, however, and even an "altered timeline" provides adventure ideas. But its. . .different. I dk how to explain it better, but it is of marginal utility after a certain point. *actually, the H.A. existed in one form or another prior to that, but came in quite. . .handy. . .in disposing of certain undead formations which otherwise would have had quite an impact on the history of the Isle. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 21:58:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: [MYSTARA] - I DO happen to like Karameikos (big surprise) At 03:46 PM 7/6/98 -0500, you wrote: >Geoff Gander, the traitor to Karameikos, wrote: >> Hmmm...here I thought Karamekians were generally a tolerant type...someone needs to be re-indoctrinated... >How can you not *love* Karameikos?!?! It is the future! That decrepit >Thyatian Empire... Stefan's new summer home. That greedy Darokin... >Mirros's new trade ward. Those little hin... !chomp! Olivia's new >garden. Rockhome... !slurp! The New Karameikan Mines. Withered ole >Glantri... Bargle's Amusement Park. Ylaraum... the Karameikan Beach. >The grazing Ethengarians... ah, who needs a big ole pasture? > Hm?! Since when did King Stefan announce a plan to take over the Known World? We don't have nearly enough soldiers or wizards to even think of doing something like that. Besides, most of those nations are our allies... >Resistance is futile! The Known World will be assimilated! ;> > Oh, wonderful...the Borg have taken Mirros...quick, get some Blackmoor devices... Sir Alexius Dannelaran Knight of the Order of the Griffon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 21:03:31 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic > > You make valid points, but IMO, Every Mystaran, or person born on a planet > with a magical "core" is born with the ability to wield magic > Alphatian society is based on a belief (I dk if it is true or not) that this is false: only some, specially gifted, are born with the ability to wield magic/become spellcasters, and these elite chosen few are entitled by the virtue of this gift to govern society. They may be wrong, but I see no reason to dispute their opinion. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 22:05:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: [MYSTARA] - For all you Karamekian anti-fans (and fans, too) Pay attention to the story I'm posting (slowly). It's going to take a LOT of time, but it's set in the post-WotI Mystara. There WILL be changes in Karameikos during that time, although Alexius is mostly going to find out about them a while after they happen (chasing artifacts and wizards around the world tends to take time). And no, I'm not telling you what they are yet. But they will be significant. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 22:16:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos At 06:33 PM 7/6/98 EDT, inconu wrote: >Are we talking about the same country here? First off, Stefan is the only >reason that there can be any peace between the Thayatins and Traladrans. If it >wasn't for him, do you really think Thyatis would be treating them well now? >Give me a break. Thyatis would just be creating a few more buildings to hold >the new slaves in. > An important point, too, is that Stefan really doesn't have a great understanding of the nature of evil, at least not in humans. He just didn't comprehend that Ludwig was pond scum and should have been disembowelled and torn to bits by wild horses thirty years ago. However, he does treat the Traladarans pretty fairly, considering this is supposed to be based on a medieval society. Look at our own history; how many conquered peoples were treated well by the conquerors? Stefan's policies toward the Traladarans are positively enlightened. For example, the Open Court, which is a right of EVERY Karamekian, whether they are Traladaran or Thyatian. King Stefan has been actively working to make everyone in Karameikos think of themselves as Karamekians, rather than Traladarans or Thyatians. We in Canada face a similar problem, with people thinking of themselves in terms of ethnic background rather than as Canadians (esp. in La Belle Province). It's not his fault that many Thyatians think themselves superior to the Traladarans. >> Perhaps he's really Lawful Evil after all. > >Yeah, that bastard......doesn't give a damn about his people huh? This statement is so far off base that I can't imagine what it is based on (the first one, not the second one, Inconu). Stefan doesn't understand evil; how could he BE evil? And as for all this talk about all the good things happening in Karameikos, I will point out that King Stefan has been actively trying to improve Karamekian society, and giving his people a better nation for their children. He's not doing it through military conquest, like Thyatis, nor is he concerning himself with political squabbling like the Glantrians. Yes, there are a whole raft of problems to be dealt with. No, Karameikos isn't perfect. But thanks to the efforts of our ruler, the kingdom is better off than it would be without him. Karameikos does seem to be heading for a Golden Age...Perhaps those Halav cultists may have something, after all... Sir Alexius Dannelaran Knight of the Order of the Griffon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 19:29:01 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic On Mon, 6 Jul 1998, Nicholas Hudson wrote: > Just like to opinion (yes, it's now a verb) on the latest > ruminations on the nature of magic on Mystara. [Ruminations clipped] > The only question I see is: if a mage from Mystara were to travel > to the Federation homelands, would s/he still be able to cast spells? > Does a World Shield's energy travel with a mage, or is s/he stranded, a > stranger in a strange land... > > Sorry about the length. > > Everybody grok that? Yes. Totally. And I've often wondered the same myself. Especially in light of the "Radiance drains off all magic from Mystara". Doesn't seem to work right if there is a superabundance of magical energy in the Prime. Only if it comes from the planet itself. For my part, I use a modified version of the "magic" system in C.S. Friedman's Coldfire Trilogy- magic derives from elemental forces in the planet itself. In the series, the streams are referred to as "Fae"- Earth, Water, Fire, and Dark Fae (and Solar Fae are briefly mentioned at one point). Magic comes from the manipulation of these Fae. There are those who cannot use the Fae, those who can be taught, and those who are naturally attuned to them (Adepts). This system works well with a four tiered elemental system- water, air (Solar), fire and earth, and a fifth representing Entropy (Dark Fae). The problem lies in the classifications. You've got your non-mages, and your Magic Users, who consist of Adepts and non-Adepts who can be taught. Where do clerics fit? I suppose they are a unique sort of character. One concept is that they are granted their powers by the Immortals (which works with the system as is); another is that they have the means to manipulate the Fae in ways that most mages cannot, and do not understand. Which would explain Glantri's fear of them... - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 21:21:22 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I DO happen to like Karameikos (big surprise) > >> > Hmmm...here I thought Karamekians were generally a tolerant type...someone > needs to be re-indoctrinated... > Ahh, the infamous "Stefan Karameikos Re-Education Camps" rear their ugly heads once again. Btw, the Torenescu were not "re-educated" the last time. Be sure to round them up on the next sweep. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 21:22:26 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - For all you Karamekian anti-fans (and fans, too) > > Pay attention to the story I'm posting (slowly). It's going to take a LOT > of time, but it's set in the post-WotI Mystara. > For us "newbies", what's the URL? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 21:33:42 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos > > > This statement is so far off base that I can't imagine what it is based on > (the first one, not the second one, Inconu). Stefan doesn't understand > evil; how could he BE evil? > 1) You're falling for his propaganda ("oh, Stefan turns a blind eye to his cronies exploiting the Traldarans because he just can't comprehend evil") 2) Just because you don't understand the nature of evil, that doesn't mean you can't commit evil. 3) If Stefan was so "fair" to the Traldarans, then why did he expropriate their property and hand it out to his cronies, distaf relatives, and friends, like Kelvin & von Hendrix in the first place? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 23:29:45 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic In a message dated 98-07-06 22:29:07 EDT, jruhlconob@sprynet.com writes: > Alphatian society is based on a belief (I dk if it is true or not) that > this is false: only some, specially gifted, are born with the ability to > wield magic/become spellcasters, and these elite chosen few are entitled by > the virtue of this gift to govern society. > They may be wrong, but I see no reason to dispute their opinion. There are a few Glantrians who offer confirmation of this point -- despite extensive training in magic, there are several prominent NPC members of the Princely families who were unable to learn magic. Roderick von Drachenfels is the most prominent living example. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 23:33:36 EDT From: Mystaros@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - West End Games goes bankrupt In a message dated 98-07-06 20:17:45 EDT, you write: << Hey all, I know this is off topic, but I though everyone here should know. I heard over the Paranoia RPG message boards today that West End Games, maker of Paranoia, Star Wars, Ghostbusters, and other games, has filed for bankruptcy. WEG was a fair-sized RPG company that had a good share of the market since the mid-1980s. Apparently all the Star Wars staff were fired last week, and our WEG net rep who participated in our Paranoia-related discussions curtly said "Show's over." Looks like another player in the market has gone under - I wonder who's next... Geoff >> I was, until six weeks ago, a West End Games employee. Specifically, the West End Games Representative at Chessex Distribution; my primary duty was to sell Hercules & Xena to the retailers. Did fairly well, too, not that that will matter any more... This whole thing was in the cards months ago. Didn't come as a surprise to me; it's one of the reasons I went back to GTE when they offered. If they go through a Chapter 11 bankruptcy they MIGHT come back... then again, they might not. Lucasfilm might decide against reissueing the license next time... or they might let them continue. Or WotC might buy it out. The industry is quite fluid at the moment. I just picked up the Star*Drive Campaign book. From the looks of it, WotC really COULD use the Star Wars background... Alternity was fairly good, but their "campaign galaxy" leaves much to be desired... And taking this to a Mystara note... would anyone be interested in an adaptation of *my own version* of Blackmoor set shortly before the GRoF, using Alternity rules? The technology of the era is appropriate, and the Alternity GM's Guide even has conversion rules for AD&D... Mystaros *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 23:07:58 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatian Military Btw, to return to that thread briefly (and *not* to toot my own horn for once). For thouse of you who may (or may not) be interested, I used several sources to inspire my "Thyatian Military" variant. But probably the most accessable/available to gamers would be the Osprey "Men at Arms Series", #89, "Byzantine Armies 886-1118", which is often available in game stores. There are a whole bunch of other good sources, but most of them are rather more academic type books, and this one has nice color plates for the fans of Karameikos to look at ("oooh, pictures") *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 01:12:32 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - EXTRA EXTRA! In a message dated 98-07-06 08:45:16 EDT, rmunch@easynet.co.uk writes: > Could be worse - for a joke I had Begbie turn up in a bar brawl, with weapon > proficiencies in stuff like Ale Tankard and Pool Cue... Too bad you didn't give him levels of weapon mastery with these "weapons" - -- I imagine the tables for them would have been interesting. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 01:12:50 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic In a message dated 98-07-06 09:59:22 EDT, ezaqwazy@hotmail.com writes: > What about all those living in the > socalled `Nightmare Dimension`? They definately dont put your prime at > the centre of the Mystaraverse. Actually, since they are in a different dimension, they don't care about the center of the dimension of Mystara. But they almost certainly do place their own Prime Material Plane at the center of their own universe/dimension. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 01:12:56 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic In a message dated 98-07-06 11:22:34 EDT, jdaly@friend.ly.net writes: > Thank you for responding so vehemently in support of the gold box. I think > you and I are fairly alone in our adoration of that symphony of math and magic. > I agree, it is exciting and original. I am not even a mathematical person > myself. I hate math. But I love the way the original Immortal rules so > elegantly blended the old characters into a new system. > > I think that system, in fact, is the very beginning of new possibilities for > Mystara itself... That old gold box did offer some most intriguing ideas, although it did suffer from being overly complicated -- but I think WotI threw out the baby with the bath water, so to speak, and jettisoned the good ("pentaspatial teraspaces" and the like) with the bad (a magic system that was a bookkeeping nightmare). Has anyone given any thought to spicing up the WotI rules with some of the better gold box ideas? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 01:12:57 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis, Mystara, and the tone of the World In a message dated 98-07-06 13:10:37 EDT, rmunch@easynet.co.uk writes: > The thing that peeves me is that originally it was supposed to be "magical > might (Alphatia) vs military might (Thyatis) = stalemate", but as Alphatia > got more developed TSR just seemed to give everything to the Alphatians, > which I thought wrecked the delicate balance that this "cold war" situation > was supposed to have. I remember noticing in my campaign about ten years ago that Alphatia seemed to be too far ahead of Thyatis in terms of power -- and even though I wanted Alphatia to be a threat to the Known World, they were still too powerful in my opinion. My solution at the time was a simple one -- I simply postulated that those Skotharian "barbarians" that Haldemar dismissed were in fact organized enough to put up a real fight with Alphatia, which was engaged in frequent wars with them. Whenever I wanted Alphatia free to menace Thyatis or other western nations, I just let them defeat their latest Skotharian enemy and have a little peace on their eastern front -- then they were free to turn their attentions towards the lands where the PCs were adventuring. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #473 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, July 7 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 474 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Amen Brother!!!! was (Re: I don't like Karameikos) Re: [MYSTARA] - Timeline junk Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos Re: [MYSTARA] - West End Games goes bankrupt Re: [MYSTARA] - Republic Darokin Re: [MYSTARA] - West End Games goes bankrupt Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic Re: [MYSTARA] - Amen Brother!!!! was (Re: I don't like Karameikos) Re: [MYSTARA] - Timeline junk Re: [MYSTARA] - West End Games goes bankrupt Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis, Mystara, and the tone of the World Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis, Mystara, and the tone of the World Re: [MYSTARA] - EXTRA EXTRA! Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Re: [MYSTARA] - For all you Karamekian anti-fans (and fans, too) Re: [MYSTARA] - Bellissarian "Empire" Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos Re: [MYSTARA] - West End Games goes bankrupt [MYSTARA] - Ylari women Re: [MYSTARA] - Ylari women [MYSTARA] - The Quest - Chapter 3 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 01:13:02 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Amen Brother!!!! was (Re: I don't like Karameikos) In a message dated 98-07-06 16:36:42 EDT, shawn@leme.anu.edu.au writes: > What the guy is turning 68 in AC 1016. If the guy doesn't at least die of > natural causes in the next Almanac I'll be very dissapointed. Then again > there is still room for him to die in a painful and grissly way. I have an even more evil idea -- let King Stefan live, but let him become subject to premature senility. He will begin making bizarre decrees, but people will be reluctant to depose him until Karameikos is in real chaos. The people will remain divided after he is deposed -- those who turned against him early will be opposed by those who waited until it was too late, Thyatians and Traladarans will turn against each other once again, and the Cult of Halav will go totally nuts when Stefan is finally deposed. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 01:13:09 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Timeline junk In a message dated 98-07-06 19:16:42 EDT, jruhlconob@sprynet.com writes: > Except that it was obvious, at least to me anyhow, that they eventually > planned on turning him into Caligula (various hints in the materiel, if you > know your history, indicate this). I never got that impression -- for one thing, Eusebius is already older and more mature than Caligula ever got to be. Can you cite an example or two of how Eusebius is becoming an insane pervert? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 01:13:08 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic In a message dated 98-07-06 19:22:41 EDT, vanquer@softhome.net writes: > Maybe there should be some > notation in the subject lines as to whether one is addressing AD&D or D&D > when posting to the list? Okay -- but what should folks like me who like to slide back and forth betwen the two game systems use? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 01:13:06 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos In a message dated 98-07-06 19:28:35 EDT, jruhlconob@sprynet.com writes: > Glantri has some nasty, controvluted politics, however. > Though I guess you don't have to introduce beginners to that until later. > Perhaps not until it's too late. . . . . Muhahahahahahaha! Of course it is not too tough if the characters are natives of Glantri -- just present a simplified picture from their own ethnic point of view. Of course, the players would be smart to stick with their initial prejudices until they are really ready to take on Glantrian politics. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 01:13:05 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - West End Games goes bankrupt In a message dated 98-07-06 20:00:30 EDT, jruhlconob@sprynet.com writes: > Damn, that sucks. And I, for one, still haven't gotten over the loss of > GDW, or the disapearance of Judges Guild, for that matter. . . . . > (Not to mention the "reorganization" of TSR, which moved out out of Lake > Geneva. Being from Madison, Wis., myself, that was tough.) TSR and GDW are both companies that had "near death experiences" as far as the gaming community goes. GDW did indeed go bankrupt, but now Marc Miller has started up another game company that is once again in the business of producing Traveller material. I hope somebody is able to pick up the pieces of West End Games and revive its game lines in a similar manner. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 08:44:22 +0200 (EET DST) From: Anias Pasi Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Republic Darokin > << But another reason I like Mystara is the lack of good/evil. Nations > are > nations, nothing more. A classic example of this is Darokin - exactly how > people think that this nation is "good" I will never know. Its not a > republic at all - its run by "companies", and corporate interests. Nations > run by companies are rarely "good" in any fiction Ive ever read (check out > the Corporate Sector Authority in Star Wars - they're almost as bad as the > Empire). >> Jamuga Khan: > What are you telling us? Of course Darokin is a republic! > It's not a democratic republic like the USA -------------------------------- Hehe, trying to raise a flamewar here? :) Actually I have allways thought that Darokin is a pretty good democratic rebublic. It's just that the laws are a bit more true to the reality there. They say how it is, rather than covering it with fancy statements. I have also allways thought that Darokin is a wery good parody of a real-world democratic rebublic. In the RW it is also often true, that those with more money are just a wee bit more democratic than the others (without money): they have more influence and they can even get away from a crime (by hiring better attorneys). Actually in Darokin thats propably much more difficult than say in USA, according to the picture I have. And hey, the Darokinians dont use bribes (in the way the RW uses them), so it must really be more democratic rebublic than some of the RW equivalents... though offcource there are differences in the RW-dem-reb's too... Pasi //I'm not really trying to mock any nation here. Please, if You feel the urge of flaming, hold Yourself, or do it via personal email. - -- X Pasi Anias X p.03 - 2533536 X \\|// X X Sammonkatu 28 A 18 X a122286@proffa X (o o) X X 33540 Tampere X .cc.tut.fi X o000--(_)--000o X *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 21:51:20 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - West End Games goes bankrupt >And taking this to a Mystara note... would anyone be interested in an >adaptation of *my own version* of Blackmoor set shortly before the GRoF, using >Alternity rules? The technology of the era is appropriate, and the Alternity >GM's Guide even has conversion rules for AD&D... >Mystaros You've got my interest. Jesse. vanquer@softhome.net ICQ. 8004143 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 23:35:24 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic >In a message dated 98-07-06 19:22:41 EDT, vanquer@softhome.net writes: >> Maybe there should be some >> notation in the subject lines as to whether one is addressing AD&D or D&D >> when posting to the list? >Okay -- but what should folks like me who like to slide back and forth betwen >the two game systems use? >Kaviyd XD&D. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 02:16:37 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Amen Brother!!!! was (Re: I don't like Karameikos) > > I have an even more evil idea -- let King Stefan live, but let him become > subject to premature senility. > They already did that to someone, though. Nasty way to go. He deserved far better treatment after putting up with so much. Something else has to happen to Stefan. Letting him die quietly after a long, successful rule (see, I don't *really* hate the dude) would be enough for me. I'd love to see the political intrigue that is likely to break out once Adriana takes the throne (nothing against her, but their is quite a potential set up, what with her mother's machinations, and various folks who'd want to "put her to the test" once papa is gone, to see how far they can push things. IMO, such people will have underestimated her, but it will still be quite fun to watch.) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 02:34:16 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Timeline junk > > I never got that impression -- for one thing, Eusebius is already older and > more mature than Caligula ever got to be. Can you cite an example or > two of how Eusebius is becoming an insane pervert? > I don't know about the pervert part, and the insanity part will take a bit of reasurch (but c.f. nickname, "Little General", purges, etc.) I'll find the specific indicators (they were all rather vague hints, but, alas, I saw them. . .of course, many people think I'm paranoid). Side note: Folks may (and will) get the impression that I'm a ardent, fanatical, blinkered, blinded, unreasonable Thyatophile. This is true. Someone (sorry, can't remember who) said in responding to one of my ranting screeds that he didn't think the situation for Thyatis could possibly get any worse (which lead to my Caligula reference above). It can. I know. "Thyatis" is the chance, in my fevered mind, to imagine, fantasize. No Manzakurt, no Myrocephalon, no 1180-1204. I don't know how to put it. I guess my point is that in a game, things can be different from what they were IRL. That's what I want, so that's what I'll have IMC. Ya'll can visit plagues, disasters, hidden undersea enemy empires, and whatever else you can throw at Thyatis, and script as disasterous an outcome as you can imagine. IMC, I'll endevour to make things better. A challenge is one thing, visiting a scripted, disasterous outcome is another. Ya'll can do that to Alphatia (though it's clear you never would. . . .), or Karameikos (ditto). As for "Thyatis", Been their, done that. Don't need to go there again. One Constantine XI Dragnes Palaeologus is enough. The least they could have done was give Thincol a "Michael the Paphlagonian" style exit. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 02:17:42 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - West End Games goes bankrupt > > TSR and GDW are both companies that had "near death experiences" as > far as the gaming community goes. GDW did indeed go bankrupt, but now > Marc Miller has started up another game company that is once again in the > business of producing Traveller material. > Actually, that one is gone too, already (Imperium Games). Steve Jackson Games (GURPS) has the Traveller licens now, if I'm not mistaken. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 02:19:25 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis, Mystara, and the tone of the World > still too powerful in my opinion. My solution at the time was a simple > one -- I simply postulated that those Skotharian "barbarians" that > Haldemar dismissed were in fact organized enough to put up a real > fight with Alphatia, > A very good idea. IMO, also, anyone who would dismiss the Jennites never had to face "barbarian" Horse Archers. Thouse dudes are quite tough. . . . . . *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 10:19:30 +0000 (GMT) From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis, Mystara, and the tone of the World James Ruhland wrote: Umn, yes. Basically, have to agree with all of what you said! Boo to the FRS! Hurrah for PC's having an *effect* on the world! >Btw, lest anyone get the wrong impression, I enjoy all Mystara, too; the >only thing I dislike is the tendancy to sometimes steriotype realms as all >good (Karameikos, Darokin, and for some reason most of the time Alphatia) >or all evil (Thyatis especially). Yup. Just because the rulers of a nation have good intentions, doesn't make the entire country "good". gordon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 10:19:30 +0000 (GMT) From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - EXTRA EXTRA! >>(did I mention Scotland is the greatest country in any dimension). > >>Well, obviously :) > >Scotland has a claim to fame, its true... Despite the fact that I use *far* more english accents...something about Cockneys for any inner city nasty people :) >> I've always wondered would an undead Scottish wizard would sound like. >>Ah stereotypes, you gotta love em :) > >Could be worse - for a joke I had Begbie turn up in a bar brawl, with weapon >proficiencies in stuff like Ale Tankard and Pool Cue... LOL!!! Now I've *got* to use that :) gordon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 03:38:31 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos The real problem I have is not with Karameikos, but with Karameikos :) (not the country, the king). I've always thought as Stefan as a very immature man, the boisterous sort of fellow who thinks that any problem can be solved through epic force. To me, he's so charismatic that he's seduced himself into his own popularity cult. He regards the country as his own personal playground (hence the name, Karameikos), and is only concerned to its well-being as it directly pertains to him. He, like Ericall, is an adventurer, not a ruler. Stefan either is a moral coward or completely oblivious to his surroundings. Von Hendriks has to be the most infamous villian in the Multiverse (Elemental Rulers, diaboli, even Old Ones have heard of him :)); for Stefan to not have known of his crimes, he would have either had to ignore them (not an evil act of commission, but of ommision; to loosely paraphrase a statement I once read about the Holocaust: When they came for the Catholics, I said nothing because I was not a Catholic; when they came for the Jews, I said nothing because I was not a Jew; when they came for the communists, I said nothing because I was not a communist; when they came for me, there was no one to say anything.), or Stefan must have the eotional IQ of depleted bologna. Of course, Stefan considers himself not only to be the centre of the universe, but the universe itself, so either option is viable. As for a lot of good things happening to Karameikos (the country), the desingers have already explained their intent: in the short War Machine scenario at the back of the Companion DM's book, the Black Eagle Barony is defeated by the forces of the Duke (interestingly enough, the Hair-on-thier-feets (to quote a favorite nagpa of mine) don't show up). On the inside back cover, in a plug for Test of the Warlords, they say that Karameikos is now peaceful, unified, and downright boring! This encourages adventurers (i.e., the PCs) to leave Karameikos, and travel to Norworld. Karameikos is still suitable for low-level play, but for the higher-lebel characters, Karameikos is nice place to relax between the political machinations and apocalyptic battles dominating the rest the world. Maybe Stefan has a modified Entrophy Bubble. "One Race, One Empire, One Time." -Qartanaq ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 04:11:34 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic >The world has always been hollow, contrary to what the Gold Box says. Read >the HW rules for this ruling.The entrances to the old HW were smaller, but >the cavern was the same size. Ka discovered it soon after becoming >Immortal IIRC. Okay, it seems as though I was wrong about the Hollow world; that doesn't really modify my theories on the source of Mystara magic. I must admit that I only got an A- in Imaginary Geography, IGEO 203. >> Shield, this fits in well with what has been presented earlier. >> Mystara's moons either have their own World Shields or use Mystara's. > >IIRC a world-shield is just what Mystara's "core" is. > >Ergo, any planet with a core has magic. Unless an Immortal chooses to not >give it magic. I've never read anything that states the World Shield is simply the planet's core; you may be right, in which case every planet with a core has magic. The question then becomes why wasn't the Beagle's crew familiar with magic? They knew about parapsychological phenomena (psionics, maybe ghosts). For me, it makes sense that not every planetary core necessarily has a World Shield, or one as strong as Mystara's. >You make valid points, but IMO, Every Mystaran, or person born on a planet >with a magical "core" is born with the ability to wield magic (i.e. Play >with Elecrtomagnetic fields to produce effects) This is carried with them >no matter where they go. Most of the other posts support the concept that not everyone has the gift of magic. It seems as though, like CthulhuDrew suggests, some can't use magic (most people), some can be taught (most mages), and for others it is natural (elves). Why is this so? Well, being a avid student of physics myself (Tesla rocks! Especially Tesla Coils! Hey, anybody have any sucess in using D&D and Red Alert?), I think I have an idea... Let us assume that the source of Mystara's magic is an electro-magnetic field surrounding the planet, or possibly an EM-like field of some hetrefore unknown force (the "magion", like a photon, weakon, gluon, or gravitron). Let us also assume (I believe that I am biologically correct here) that humans and other sapient creatures have a similiar EM field in the head, or where ever you would like the "life magic force" to be. Through the process of induction, in some individuals, the EM field of Mystara modifies the field of the idividual to match the larger field of the World Shield. Thus, these individuals are literallyt attuned to magic. It's like a radio constantly playing inside their head. For others, the field is not quite inducted. These people need to be taught how to tune in to the frequency of the World Shield Field (WSF, or, for those radio-analogy fans, KWSF; "And remeber mages, turn your heads to KWSF every night at six for groundbreaking nes you can use."). These are the mages who can be taught. Some people simply lack the discipline necessary to tune in, and cannot be taught. Others may have a physical impediment that prevents magic. Finally, one of the most original class ideas I have ever seen is from Palladium's Beyond the Supernatural: the nega-psychic. Basically, these people are so convinced that psychic powers, ghosts, demons, et c., don't exist, that their minds actually protect and shield them from this phenomena; their minds are closed to the supernatural; the ultimate skeptic. Oh, and Max, I was right about Blackmoor mages, wasn't I? :) Nicholas Hudson "One Race, One Empire, One Time." -Qartanaq ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 07:36:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - For all you Karamekian anti-fans (and fans, too) At 09:22 PM 7/6/98 -0500, you wrote: > >> >> Pay attention to the story I'm posting (slowly). It's going to take a >LOT >> of time, but it's set in the post-WotI Mystara. >> >For us "newbies", what's the URL? Oh, right...The Mighty Khan has been kind enough to put aside any enmity between the Ethengar Khanates and the Kingdom of Karameikos so that this story may be preserved for posterity. The URL is http://members.aol.com/JamugaKhan/Mystara/TheQuest/TheQuest.html Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 08:52:57 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bellissarian "Empire" James Ruhland wrote: > > > > Hmm, an empire based on Belisaria would, no doubt, be much more > introverted > > than the former monolith. The people of Belisaria, in general, are > > crotchety and don't take well to strangers. Therefore I don't see this > > theoretical "empire" as being very colonistic. > > > So? > So long as a Bellissarian-centered Empire would help out the other > Alphatian remnants, it's beside the point whether they are interested in > expanding to, say, the Pearl Islands or not. Relax dude. I merely made an observation. Bellisarria would undoubtedly be a different empire than the original. Personally I am not so sure they would jump at the chance to BE an empire....but if a guy like Broderick decided it was necessary, no doubt he could pull it off. > And, IMO, dudes like Broderik insure that they will be interested in > helping out the rest of the Alphatian areas of Mystara. > Where else would you center it? Monster Island is full of Monsters, not > Alphatians, Well, ignoring the fact that it is the canonical new capital (how come I am picturing this huge snow cone??), I prefer Monster Island stay Monster island. It definitely makes for an interesting adventuring environment. Adding a human capital makes it rather drab... I think, for strategic reasons, I favor Floating Ar...then again not to many places to run... For nostalgic reasons I favor Alpha... Not too many of the other colonies are favorable I think... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 09:04:20 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos Okay, so if Stephan is such an awful man and so hateful toward Traladarans, then why do so many of them love him? James Ruhland wrote: > > > > > This statement is so far off base that I can't imagine what it is based > on > > (the first one, not the second one, Inconu). Stefan doesn't understand > > evil; how could he BE evil? > > > 1) You're falling for his propaganda ("oh, Stefan turns a blind eye to his > cronies exploiting the Traldarans because he just can't comprehend evil") > 2) Just because you don't understand the nature of evil, that doesn't mean > you can't commit evil. > 3) If Stefan was so "fair" to the Traldarans, then why did he expropriate > their property and hand it out to his cronies, distaf relatives, and > friends, like Kelvin & von Hendrix in the first place? > > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 09:25:24 EDT From: Dragon3125@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - West End Games goes bankrupt In a message dated 7/7/98 3:03:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Mystaros@aol.com writes: << And taking this to a Mystara note ... would anyone be interested in an adaptation of *my own version* of Blackmoor set shortly before the GRoF, using Alternity rules? The technology of the era is appropriate, and the Alternity GM's Guide even has conversion rules for AD&D... >> Mine too Another Jesse *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 09:36:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: [MYSTARA] - Ylari women I just received GAZ2 and enjoy it for the most part (though it takes a slightly different turn with this nation than I used to visualize). The big thing that struck me though was how rarely the issue of gender roles came up. It seems that there are very strict gender roles in the Emirates and that women are generally a repressed minority. I think this would be a nice touch to add in to this culture that is presented as egalitarian and utopian. Or perhaps only the Kin are so repressive? Anyways I wonder what you all think of the situation of Ylari women? As bad as for Irani women in the mid-80s? "I'm the guy who won the greatest game ever pitched"-Lew Burdette *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 07:05:20 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ylari women The >big thing that struck me though was how rarely the issue of gender roles >came up. It seems that there are very strict gender roles in the Emirates >and that women are generally a repressed minority. I think this would be >a nice touch to add in to this culture that is presented as egalitarian >and utopian. Along these lines, I've always been suprised at how modern most nations in Mystara are when it comes to sex. Even in some of the most primative tribes, such as the gurrash of the Savage Coast, women are regarded as equal to men. Individuals, such as Rathanos, maybe have their predjudices, but socially, women have it better on Mystara than on Earth. I know Mystara is fantasy, but give that many of the nations are "officially" based on mediveal culture, mayn't one expect a degree of discrimination? Not that I support sexual discrimination mind you, but it could provide some interesting plot devices and inspirations: female characters either can't get any help from the authorities, or too much help from lecherous would-be saviors; have a nasty tendancy of being kiddnapped by dragons, and having to put up with obnoxius paladins who think the woman's place is in the home. Perhaps the players could even lead a sufferage movement; I once had a very moving and intellectual adventure involving an attempt to unionize in Minrothad. Nicholas Hudson "In the beginning, there was darkness. But before there was darkness, there was Frog." -St. Stephen ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 10:15:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Quest - Chapter 3 The warhorse trudged through the slush that masqueraded as a road just north of Rollstone Keep, on the Shires-Karameikos border. The snow had not yet let up, and Alexius could not see very far ahead. Out of habit, he kept glancing to the east, toward the Blight Swamp. More than once he had been forced to fend off small raiding parties of orcs and goblins that occasionally preyed on unwary travelers. Alexius did not feel any anticipation about seeing his homeland again; his feelings had been numbed since the death of his wife. He had paid no attention to the whispered comments at the Karamekian Court, nor the concerned glances of fellow members of the Order of the Griffon. Even Desmond Kelvin, who had never thought highly of Alexius, had offered him support. Alexius knew he didn't need emotional support. He just needed to see Ludwig von Hendriks' head on a pole. The weather slowed the warhorse's pace to a languishing crawl. The wind began to pick up, but Alexius merely flicked the reins to tell the horse to push on. The hin soldiers had offered to let them stay at Rollstone Keep overnight, since the weather was expected to break the next day. Alexius had declined, feigning a homesickness he could not feel. "I've failed you again, Serrah," he murmured. "Somehow, he's escaped me." He lifted his head, his nose flaring as something stirred a memory. Serrah's perfume, he thought. Impossible, he thought as he looked around. He glimpsed motion to his right, in the direction of the swamp. He touched the horse's neck. "Hold up, Valen," he muttered. Valen snorted for a moment, and stopped. His eyes still on the flickering movement, Alexius dismounted. He loosened his sword in its sheath, feeling its comforting warmth through his winter gloves. He motioned Valen to stay put. He knew the horse would obey; they had ridden together a long time now. Alexius walked off the road, sinking almost to his knees in the snow. He pushed forward, keeping the indistinct shape in view. As he approached, he thought he could see it glowing. The knight advanced warily, drawing his blade halfway out of its sheath. Then he stopped in his tracks, and a chill unrelated to the wind ran up his spine. He did not notice himself sinking to his knees in the snow. He did not notice that his sword had fallen from his grasp and slid back into its sheath. He did not notice the wind diminishing around him. "Alexius, my love," said the spirit of his dead wife. "I've missed you so much!" His throat had never felt so dry! His tongue was glued to the roof of his mouth, and his mind refused to form any words at all. "I have so little time, my love," she said. Her voice seemed hollow, as if it came from somewhere far away. "Diulanna sent me to you. She heard your prayers, and has given me a chance to see you again." "S-serrah? Is it truly you?" "Yes, Alexius, it's me. Listen carefully, for my time is short. Diulanna will do this much, but no more. I know you want to bring me back to life, but the Immortals have already sent me to my eternal rest. I can't come back, no matter how many priests pray for me. As much as it hurts me, I know I will never see you again after this." "B-but there must be a way-" "There isn't, Alexius. Oh, how I wish it could be otherwise!" The spirit shuddered with weeping. "But the Immortals have decided." His anger boiled over. "Decided? Are you some pawn in their cosmic games, then? You're taken from the playing field just like that? You were MURDERED!" "I'm not the only person that Black Pigeon murdered, Alexius. But you're one of the few who gets to speak to the dead afterwards. Now, listen to me, please! I came to tell you this: I know how much you want to be with me, but I can't come back. And you can't join me, at least not now. You have too much to do on Mystara. So don't you dare think of killing yourself for my benefit. It wouldn't work, for you would be damned to an eternity in Limbo." "The thought never crossed my mind," he lied. "Of course not," she said in a sardonic voice so familiar that it nearly pierced his heart then and there. "You'd never do something like that for me, would you?" He started to deny it, but his memories came back, unbidden. Memories of another time, when they were both young and immortal... ******************************** Garok fell to one knee, gritting his teeth against the pain of the arrow in his arm. Cursing horribly, the dwarf raised his crossbow and fired, catching the goblin in the throat. Two more arrows struck him, and he groaned as the pain overwhelmed him. Alexius could not spare a moment to help the fallen dwarf; he was hard-pressed to defend himself against three goblin swordsmen. The Wolfskulls had ambushed them just as they were setting up camp. Alexius cursed himself even as he slashed at the goblin on his right. He should have been more careful; he should had set another guard. He couldn't have known that the Wolfskull lair was close by, but he should have assumed it. His mistake had already cost Serinyella her life, and perhaps Garok also. And Serrah... Serrah had learned to fight in the past few months, and had no qualms about using her sword against goblins. She had chosen to stay with Alexius and his companions, rather than returning to Specularum with Erren. She had not regretted her choice so far, thought Alexius, but perhaps she was reconsidering it now. A burst of light from behind him told Alexius that Merrick was still in the fight, although no one could come to the mage's aid. Brother Kanterius was fending off two goblins himself, and Alexius could not see Serrah. Merrick's spell was effective, though, as Alexius saw a goblin fall, its chest caved in. "Fall back," he shouted, hoping to rally those still standing. He himself took a step backward, his sword cutting through the neck of one of his attackers. The other two snarled in hatred and redoubled their attacks, driving Alexius back even more. He felt a tree branch stabbing him in the back. He ducked away from one goblin's wild swing, and the sword sank into the tree trunk, sticking there. Alexius dispatched the goblin quickly, and turned his attention to the third. "Ssstop, human!" hissed a voice from the side. "Alexius!" said Serrah, her voice broken. Alexius blocked the goblin's sword with his own and drove it aside, risking a glance toward Serrah. He saw her lying on her back, a goblin sword at her throat. She looked at the goblin with a terrified face. The goblin who had spoken stood by Kanterius. The priest was disarmed and on the ground, as was Gorak with three arrows in him. Merrick was nowhere to be seen. There were five goblins still standing. "Sssurrender, human," ordered the goblin again, "or they die in an inssstant!" Alexius thought quickly. "Very well," he said. "I will surrender myself to you. But first you must release the woman." "Why we do that?" sneered the goblin. "I am a Karamekian noble," he said. It wasn't a lie; Lord Kaerin had sent word to Specularum, and Duke Stefan had made Alexius a Court Lord for his services. It didn't mean very much, but he was, technically, a nobleman. "If you release the woman, she will carry your ransom demand back to Specularum. We are worth far more to you alive than dead." The goblins laughed, but the leader silenced them. "How much you worth?" "Enough to make it worth your while to let her go." The goblin leader thought for a few moments. Alexius could almost hear the goblin's thoughts crawling slowly through his mind. Finally, the leader looked at him with a feral grin. "You sssurrender, give up your sssword. The Wolfskull tribe want two thousssand gold, or you all die!" Alexius nodded. He saw Serrah looking at him, and returned her look with a small smile. At least she would be safe. The goblin leader grinned and spoke to the one over Serrah. The goblin snarled, but moved his sword away from Serrah's throat. She propped herself up on her elbows, breathing rapidly. The goblin standing over her turned back to his leader. Serrah moved like lightning, scissoring the goblin's legs and sending him tumbling to the ground. With catlike grace, she grabbed the goblin's sword and drove it into his gut. Garok roared, pulled an arrow out of his arm, and stabbed the nearest goblin. It screamed in pain, but was quickly silenced as Garok grabbed it by the throat and squeezed it until he heard bones crack. Alexius kicked the goblin in the stomach, then knocked its sword flying with a quick stroke. The defenseless goblin tried to run, but Alexius cut it down before it could even turn around. Alexius then turned to the last goblin, murder in his eyes. The goblin looked around for an instant, and fled into the forest. The leader of the goblins roared in fury and turned to finish off the wounded cleric. Kanterius rolled aside, narrowly missing the goblin's sword as it sunk into the ground. The goblin raised its sword to strike again, and Kanterius had nowhere to go. There came the twang of a bowstring, and the goblin leader looked down to find an arrow buried in his chest. With a moan, he slumped down atop the fallen cleric, his sword falling away harmlessly. Kanterius looked up to see Serinyella back among the trees, holding her side as she dropped her bow. Merrick rushed to her side. He had run into the forest after casting his spells, and no goblins had followed him. "We thought you were dead," he exclaimed. The elven huntress shook her head in obvious pain. "I let them think that; they were too eager to get at the rest of you." She winced as Merrick probed the gash in her ribs. "I was barely conscious as it was. I wouldn't have been able to help you in the fight, so I watched. If Alexius had really surrendered, I would have followed." Kanterius moved to the dwarf, who was back on his knees. "You're too stubborn to die, Garok," said the cleric, wincing from his own pain. "Let me look at those arrows." "If I let a pack of stinking goblins kill me, my ancestors would make me haunt the mines forever," replied Garok, grimacing despite himself. Alexius strode over to Serrah, his eyes burning. "What did you think you were doing?" he demanded. "You could have been killed!" Serrah looked at him in shock. "I knew what I was doing! They were thinking about all the money they were going to get for ransom. They didn't think I was any more of a threat." "You shouldn't have risked your life like that," insisted the warrior. "You were lucky that time, and luck runs out sooner or later." "What would you have me do?" she said, her anger now matching his. "You would rather I ran away and left you to die?" "They wouldn't have killed me," he said. "They would have waited for the money." She stopped, understanding creeping onto her face. "You would have gone through with it," she realized. "You would have surrendered yourself and let me go back to fetch a ransom." Alexius said nothing. "You would have been killed anyway," continued Serrah. "They would have killed you, and probably everyone else, right after they got their money." "But they wouldn't have killed you," said Alexius. He began to say more, but then looked around the campsite. The others were being careful not to notice the discussion going on between the pair, except Garok. He grunted as Alexius looked at him. "You going to kiss her now?" asked the dwarf. Serrah stepped back, her face red. Kanterius gently elbowed the dwarf. "Do you think you could be a little more subtle?" suggested the priest. "I'm a dwarf," answered Garok. "I don't do 'subtle.'" ****************************** Alexius blinked back his tears and looked at the ghost of his love. "I won't take my own life," he promised. "But I would give anything to be with you." "I know." The knight closed his eyes, trying to control himself. When he opened them again, he was alone. "Serrah?! Serrah!!" "Farewell, my love," came the echo of her voice. "I have to go now." "Please come back!" Serrah's voice faded to almost nothing. "Avenge me, Alexius. Avenge me..." "NO!!" Alexius stumbled ahead through the snow, running to nowhere. He finally fell to his knees. The snow melted into his armor, chilling him to the bones. He wept until the tears froze to his cheeks, and he was blinded by them. "Serrah..." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #474 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, July 7 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 475 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - New Immortal-Bachiphix Re: [MYSTARA] - Ylari women Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis, Mystara, and the tone of the World Re: [MYSTARA] - Ylari women [MYSTARA] - Former Alphatian colonies Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic [MYSTARA] - MystaraWriters! Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos Re: [MYSTARA] - Bellissarian "Empire" Re: [MYSTARA] - Ylari women Re: [MYSTARA] - Ylari women Re: [MYSTARA] - Ylari women Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis, Mystara, and the tone of the World Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Re: [MYSTARA] - Former Alphatian colonies ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 10:42:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: [MYSTARA] - New Immortal-Bachiphix The real ancient list elders will remember I posted a series of 'new immortals' in the first few months of the list (available at Shawn Stanley's web page if anyone is really interested). Anyways I had intended to write up a few more of these relics from my more high-powered gaming days. Many of these IMO would make for interesting additions to a campaign so anyways here you go... (Oh, any comments/criticism/critiques/etc are welcome) Bachiphix, Patron of the Persistent Sphere:Energy Rank:Initiate History:Bachiphix was born in 965 AC in a small Hutaakan village in the Hollow World. She didn't aspire for much but wasn't complacent either. She started to wander the world, eventually meeting up with an odd group of aventurers, including a number of rebels against the Azcan Empire far from her home. Recognizing the wrongness of the ways of the Azcans she joined in with this motley band (already posted from this group were several other immortals, Grunnhild, Tlazcon and Golorius). They achieved some success in their travels, especially against their principal enemy, slaying several of the Emporer's sons. Many of her friends and allies went on their own ways with time though - after defeating the Carnifex scourge many opted for immortality, leaving only Antalian Grunnhild and the Azcan Tlachzanoca along with Bachi. The former returned to her arctic homelands to try to mend the repressive gender roles of her peoples while the latter seemed to vanish after having been the principal leader of the rebellion for many years. Bachiphix decided to return home like Grunnhild had done. Finding her home village in a minor conflict with their neighbors, and not wishing to see violence among the Hutaakan, she offered an intriguing choice -- to move. She led her villagers southeast through Nithian lands, eventually settling in the territory south of Nithia and establishing a small Hutaakan community there. Throughout the trip, they faced many small obstacles but each was overcome through persistence, perseverance (sp?) and patience. After having successfully settled her peoples there, she decided to try to rejoin her companions in immortality, thinking she could succeed if she just didn't give up. Such an attitude was always the central one in her life, as she was not blessed with great physical or mental abilities but possessed a will to triumph over obstacles. She peititioned Pflarr, who decided to give the chance to this descendant of his creations. The path itself was anything but easy. She had already transformed the land south of Nithia with her Hutaakan settlement in the former wilderness and had trained some of those settlers to reach high levels of success. She needed to find the Axe of Flame though and to make an object that would bring wolves into being. She did some research throughout the Hollow World, having a great boost when she found the Lighthouse. Rumors led her to the Beastman lands and from there she eventually found the path to the Outer World where the Axe was left. Lost among the wonders and peoples of those lands it took her some time to track the Axe to Vulcania where she had to wrest it from the hands of a Fire Giant community which thought it a gift from their deities. She overcame these stronger, tougher opponents by utilizing the swordskill she had learned over the years as well as some hit-and-run tactics. The wolf-creation item was much more difficult. She researched in Glantri, Alphatia, Thyatis, Norworld, the Lighthouse, Nithia and finally discovered the ingredients that may make such an item in powder form. Again she had to exert great patience, energy and time to complete the quest to find these ingredients. She found a Gargantuan Dire Wolf in the wastes of Norworld that provided her with the final ingredient and spent all her worldly acquirements except a few weapons and the armor she wore in order to pay for the neccesary alchemical work to create the Powder of the Wolf. Once this was completed at age 60 in 1025 AC Pflarr rose Bachiphix to immortality where she once again committed herself to the Hutaakans and to a steadied rise through persistent effort. Followers:None currently. She may become an immortal of the Hutaakan pantheon in future years if she has gained enough power to become a true force. Allies:Pflarr. While their philosophies are not identical, Pflarr is extremely proud one of his peoples has risen to great success. To him, Bachiphix's rise is proof that the Hutaakans are wondrous creation. She has some contact with her former adventurer friends who have attained immortality but they are often busy with their own projects and plans. Enemies:None yet. Perhaps she will acquire some once she has become a problem to be reckoned with. Symbol:Winding trail that symbolizes the long and constantly shifting path through life that can be followed if one simply remains persistent. Appearance: (Mortal and Immortal Forms) Bachiphix looks like a typical Hutaakan female to outsiders, though Hutaakans would likely view her as unattractive by their standards. She is of normal height and weight and has no truly distinctive features. Personality:As you may have gathered, Bachiphix is very patient and persistent. She does not give up ever and thinks that if you try and try again it can make up for any other flaws. She looks down on the lazy and idle as a result and to a lesser extent those who achieved their positions through luck of birth. She is proud of the Hutaakan culture but has some regards for the cultures of her companions during mortal life as well. She tries not to take sides in minor debates but will work to stop things she considers a great evil or unbalancing force. Stats: STR 10 INT 11 WIS 12 DEX 8 CON 9 CHA 3 Greater Talents 23 Lesser Talents 30 Alignment Neutral HD 15 Class (as mortal) 8th-level Hutaakan PP 323 HP 23 as mortal, 75 as immortal AC -4 as mortal (CM+2,Shield+2,RoP+4), 0 as immortal Weapon (both forms) Grand Master w/ Sword+5, Master w/ Sling Skills possessed in mortal life:Mysticism (12), Danger Sense (12), Military Tactics (12), Tracking (12), Mountain/Hill Survival (10), Foot Pad Lizard Riding (8), Mountain/Hill Stealth (8), Muscle (10), Endurance (10), Navigation (11) "I'm the guy who won the greatest game ever pitched"-Lew Burdette *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 10:46:04 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ylari women Nicholas Hudson wrote: > The > >big thing that struck me though was how rarely the issue of gender > roles > >came up. It seems that there are very strict gender roles in the > Emirates > >and that women are generally a repressed minority. I think this would > be > >a nice touch to add in to this culture that is presented as egalitarian > >and utopian. > > Along these lines, I've always been suprised at how modern most > nations in Mystara are when it comes to sex. Even in some of the most > primative tribes, such as the gurrash of the Savage Coast, women are > regarded as equal to men. But in most KW countries they are not. Alphatia is the major exception since magic does not seem to be determined by gender. The fact that Thyatis is a warrior culture, primarily, predetermines that there will be some amount of gender hierarchy. But it is certainly not as bad as in real world Rome... > Individuals, such as Rathanos, maybe have > their predjudices, but socially, women have it better on Mystara than on > Earth. Certainly. But then, this is not Earth (Gold Box Immortals Set notwithstanding!). And besides, don't forget that our current views on gender stereotypes are based on our own prejudices. I assume of course that when you say "women have it better on Mystara than on Earth." you mean ancient Earth or countries other than those that are "Western". In other words social opinions are bound to change from national boundary to national boundary and from historical period to historical period. I am not saying there aren't absolutes in "right and wrong", but some of those "truths we cling to depend greatly upon our point of view". There was a point there...but I am getting over a virus and my head is still clogged and fuzzy...I hope you can decipher all that... > I know Mystara is fantasy, but give that many of the nations are > "officially" based on mediveal culture, mayn't one expect a degree of > discrimination? But there is. In Thyatis women aren't supposed to be adventurers. I think it is fascinating that in the same country, if a woman rises to prominence she can earn a well-loved place in the great pantheon of heroes. I think that sort of "seeming contradiction" is good. > Not that I support sexual discrimination mind you, but > it could provide some interesting plot devices and inspirations: female > characters either can't get any help from the authorities, or too much > help from lecherous would-be saviors; have a nasty tendancy of being > kiddnapped by dragons, and having to put up with obnoxius paladins who > think the woman's place is in the home. Oh no doubt. I certainly agree with you here. But consider that there has to be someplace women are equal or near-equal for the simple, and mundane, fact that there is a large number of female gamers. The ancient argument of whether to give women strength penalties (a long thread in an old Dragon magazine) is, to me, like banging ones head against the wall...okay, ignore that analogy. Remember I am sick. What I am saying is, it is stupid for the gaming industry to shoot itself in the foot for something so trivial as realism. Er, no. That is not what I am saying. Do you get my point or do I have to make more effort to clear my head?? > Perhaps the players could even > lead a sufferage movement; I once had a very moving and intellectual > adventure involving an attempt to unionize in Minrothad. Sounds interesting. Care to elaborate? > > > Nicholas Hudson > > "In the beginning, there was darkness. But before there was > darkness, there was Frog." -St. Stephen Good quote! One of the things I anticipated when I was gearing up for that adventure, was being able to read those prayers to the party...some of them are still laughing! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 10:50:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis, Mystara, and the tone of the World > the gazetteers came out, Alphatia was constantly presented as the > bad-guy-aggressor. This was mainly because the gazetteers were written in the > PoV of the nation in question. In the major source for Thyatis-Alphatia (DoTE) though I detect a considerable bias by Alston towards the latter empire. More focus on the Thyatian slavery and colonization than the Alphatia slavery and colonization. More focus on Thyatian corruption than on Alphatian drug (ab)use. Thyatis gets portrayed as the brute-force moron while Alphatia is this crafty, intelligent sophisticate. I personally prefer to see Thyatis as just an intelligent and Alphatia just as prone to brute force. Thyatis simply relies more on preserving unique cultures and on fighting talent while Alphatia relies more on magic and assimilation of colonies. > > The thing that peeves me is that originally it was supposed to be "magical > > might (Alphatia) vs military might (Thyatis) = stalemate", but as Alphatia > If the two were ever to slug it out, Alphatia would be unquestionably > the winner. Until DoTE, I saw this as totally even (like the poster Jeff responded to) rather than Alphatia having the edge. I think it'd be a toss-up so neither side wants to risk it. Both sides know that even if they win they'd be easy prey for surrounding forces as well. I think the question of superior power if really up for grabs and isn't conclusively settled one way or the other. "I'm the guy who won the greatest game ever pitched"-Lew Burdette *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 11:02:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ylari women > Along these lines, I've always been suprised at how modern most > nations in Mystara are when it comes to sex. > I know Mystara is fantasy, but give that many of the nations are > "officially" based on mediveal culture, mayn't one expect a degree of > discrimination? The Hollow World is a bit more balanced in this regards. Most cultures are at least male-controlled and in a good number women are second class citizens (if even allowed citizenship or its equivalent). We have SOME equal or female-controlled cultures (the Malpheggi come to mind) but mostly it is obvious women are disadvantaged. Even the tribal culture (Neathar) is male-dominated despite the more egalitarian gender norms of hunter-gatherer days. I don't own much of the OW material (only DoTE, GAZ2, PC2 and a fairly large number of modules) so don't know how balanced and modern things are overall. We do have cultures like the Hattians and Ochaleans though that are definitely chauvinist. > Perhaps the players could even > lead a sufferage movement; I once had a very moving and intellectual > adventure involving an attempt to unionize in Minrothad. I really like how all this was handled in HWR3, the Milenian Gazzetteer. Along with your typical 'evil' subversive forces (Pelai, Zargosians) you have a women's lib group (Materans) which might strike many women as good and many men as evil and a slavery-freedom group (Kleonites) which a good number of Milenians might back but which is opposed by the ruling classes. I wonder if setting up a similar situation for a group of Ylari women would be interesting. I can just see a typical all- (or mostly-) male RPG group playing women in this group. It'd make for a very nice campaign IMO. Given this thread, perhaps I should have bought back my Gloria Steinem .sigs ;) "I'm the guy who won the greatest game ever pitched"-Lew Burdette *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 11:13:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: [MYSTARA] - Former Alphatian colonies There's been alot of talk here lately about the effects of the loss of Alphatia on Thyatis and Bellisaria. What about the former colonies though? Is this Baron Norlan's big break? The time for the Jennite reclamation of Esterhold? I think there're alot of after-effects to WOTI that we have to focus on also..perhaps something in the next PWA on these former colonies? "I'm the guy who won the greatest game ever pitched"-Lew Burdette *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 11:28:27 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic On Mon, 6 Jul 1998, James Ruhland wrote: > this is false: only some, specially gifted, are born with the ability to > wield magic/become spellcasters, and these elite chosen few are entitled by > the virtue of this gift to govern society. Some are more adept than others. A person with a 3 INT may be able to weild magic but may lack the intelligence to use it. Or maybe someone isn't suited to the discipline personality-wise. Doesn't mean that Joe Fighter *can't* learn magic. The potential is there, he may lack the discipline or the drive to learn it. That's what weeds out non magical Alphatians. Lack of commitment, lack of intelligence, or lack of the personality needed to dedicate him/herself fully to magical teaching. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 11:41:40 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic On Tue, 7 Jul 1998 Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: > bath water, so to speak, and jettisoned the good ("pentaspatial teraspaces" > and the like) with the bad (a magic system that was a bookkeeping nightmare). > Has anyone given any thought to spicing up the WotI rules with some of > the better gold box ideas? Well, pentaspatial teraspaces makes no sense (I'll get to that later). WoTI simplified attoplane, exaplane, and kiloplane to more recognizable "coffin sized plane", "Universe" and "Solar System" for starters, and removed that absolutely useless (and confusing) bias rule. WoTI made the immortals all powerful, rather than restricted by arbitrary rules. (How can an Immortal of Time grant his cleric Purify food and water, when he himself can't use it?!!?) As for the mathematical dimensions, that's a crock. When I first bought the gold box, back in 88-89 or so, I was reading Hawking's Brief history of Time, and scoffed at the whole "greater than three" dimensions thing. If an Immortal exists in 4 dimensions, that means he exists as a line through the entire space-time plane, occupying all points in time per area of space he/she is in. Sure, this makes chronomancy easy, but it sure does screw up the entire universe. Say an Immortal is on planet X *NOW*. A 4D Immortal would be in the same spot 65M years ago, yesterday, tomorrow, 45k years from now, etc. Not only would this cause paradoxes, should the immortal return to the same spot, but it would tear the fabric of space-time apart. The only reason that they put that into the Gold box, I bet, is because they made a blanket ruling that all creatures lose a dimension on the Astral plane, and they wanted Immortals to stay 3d. Higher dimensional space, such as 5 dimensional space seems ludicrous to me. 'nuff said :) Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 11:45:29 -0400 From: Daly Subject: [MYSTARA] - MystaraWriters! To all newbies and oldbies who are interested: The MystaranWriters' Guild is a collection of writers dedicated to seeing Mystara in print in any way possible. We gather in groups of about 4-6 and pump out material to periodicals in the hopes of renewing interest in Mystara. If you are interested, and are fairly self-motivated, send me a message privately with "MystaranWriters" in the subject line. MystaranWriters' Guild wants YOU!! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 10:04:45 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos > > Okay, so if Stephan is such an awful man and so hateful toward Traladarans, then why > do so many of them love him? > They've been brainwashed, like yourself. Plus, how many really *do* love him? The Tornenescu? The Radu? The Marilenev? IRL, Kim Il Sung was called "beloved leader", does that make it true? Was Joseph "uncle joe" Stalin beloved in the Ukraine, just because Pravda said he was? Be careful believing what tripe you read. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 10:09:19 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bellissarian "Empire" Everything old is new again. www.constantinople.net - ---------- > From: Daly > To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bellissarian "Empire" > Date: Tuesday, July 07, 1998 7:52 AM > > > > James Ruhland wrote: > > > > > > > Hmm, an empire based on Belisaria would, no doubt, be much more > > introverted > > > than the former monolith. The people of Belisaria, in general, are > > > crotchety and don't take well to strangers. Therefore I don't see this > > > theoretical "empire" as being very colonistic. > > Relax dude. > Me? Relax? Surely, you jest. 8-)~ > I merely made an observation. Bellisarria would undoubtedly be a > different empire than the original. Personally I am not so sure they would jump at > the chance to BE an empire....but if a guy like Broderick decided it was necessary, no doubt he could pull it off. > Their are different kinds of Empires. I.E. after about the 2nd century A.D., the Roman Empire was almost exclusively defensive, and what wars it fought were either to preserve what it already had, or regain recient losses, and it remained that way (an Empire, but not an expansionistic one) for 12 centuries. > > Well, ignoring the fact that it is the canonical new capital (how come I am > picturing this huge snow cone??), > IT'S CANONICAL???? *Major, Calvin-like rant occurs, Porphy running amok tossing things about* > I prefer Monster Island stay Monster island. It > definitely makes for an interesting adventuring environment. Adding a human > capital makes it rather drab... > It ruins the mystique. Who's idea was that? Your below choices are all better (even Alpha....) > I think, for strategic reasons, I favor Floating Ar...then again not to many places > to run... > > For nostalgic reasons I favor Alpha... > > Not too many of the other colonies are favorable I think... > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 10:20:28 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ylari women > > I just received GAZ2 and enjoy it for the most part (though it takes a > slightly different turn with this nation than I used to visualize). The > big thing that struck me though was how rarely the issue of gender roles > came up. > At the time GAZ2 was published, the issue, while significant, was not as. . .high profile. . .as it is circa 15 years later, so it was probably just overlooked. > Or perhaps only the Kin are so repressive? Anyways I wonder > what you all think of the situation of Ylari women? As bad as for Irani > women in the mid-80s? > I doubt that bad (though how bad things were/are can be over-estimated). It would be interesting, though. To the Ylari (or at least the men), such "repressive restrictions" would always be portrayed as being in the best interests of the women themselves, so asside from a vocal minority (Hmmmn. . .a Ylari Susan B. Anthony. . .), to *them* Ylari society would still be a "verdant utopia" compaired to the lands of the nonbelievers, who let their women be subject to all kinds of outragious behavior & lacivious glares. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 10:27:00 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ylari women > I know Mystara is fantasy, but give that many of the nations are > "officially" based on mediveal culture, mayn't one expect a degree of > discrimination? > Tel Akbir (in Thyatis) has the Alaysian/Ylari trait (discrimination against female adventurers), and of course the Hattians (but they hate everyone). As far as other places, I know that as soon as I suggest any areas I think would be likely to harrass female adventurers, the vocal supporters of that setting will come out and explain at length as to why that wouldn't happen HERE (oh, never here; it's only thouse others over the next hill who are such boors!), so I won't. 8-)~ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 10:34:25 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ylari women > > But there is. In Thyatis women aren't supposed to be adventurers. > Not *precisely* true (except in Tel Akbir); after some initial hazzing, female warriors are able to earn respect, and even admiration (there I am, "comming out of the woodwork to vocally explain why that doesn't happen HERE" to paraphrase myself. . .) Of course, actually what you said is true, to a large degree. I think these kinds of flawed national characteristics add depth and flavor (even if they are nasty) to a setting. By comparison, most Gaz. nations are described almost as a climax society, a social utopia. IMO, we should consider such things to be jingoistic propaganda, and introduce the appropriate flaws, which will liven up the place (and give folks, including characters, long term "reform" goals to pursue, if they wish.) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 10:43:11 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis, Mystara, and the tone of the World > > In the major source for Thyatis-Alphatia (DoTE) though I detect a > considerable bias by Alston towards the latter empire. More focus on the > Thyatian slavery and colonization than the Alphatia slavery and > colonization. More focus on Thyatian corruption than on Alphatian drug > (ab)use. Thyatis gets portrayed as the brute-force moron while Alphatia > is this crafty, intelligent sophisticate. I personally prefer to see > Thyatis as just an intelligent and Alphatia just as prone to brute force. > Thyatis simply relies more on preserving unique cultures and on fighting > talent while Alphatia relies more on magic and assimilation of colonies. > Your above remarks were more cogent than all the ranting screeds I penned. I bow to your wisdom, sir. However, on the below, I (even though a raving, frothing-at-the-mouth Thyatophile) never really saw them "as totally even" in a geopolitical sense. Thyatis maintained it's imperial domain against a more powerful Alphatia for two reasons: 1) Alphatia's mages &tc. generally prefered to be left alone (by the outside world, their own government, their whinning relatives, whatever) rather than sign up in some grand imperial crusade. The disorder/chaotic nature of Alphatian society meant they often used their strength at cross purposes (self-defeating). 2) Thyatians are crafty, intelligent folks. This gets portrayed propagandistically as "Thyatian treachery", when what it is (contrary to the stereotype of a "warrior society") is a preference for achieving goals by means *other* than brute force. IMO, you can *definately* tell that Aliston hated Thyatis with a red passion by the revolts of Ochalea & the Pearl Islands: Thyatis gained their loyalty by offering better terms (universal citizenship & near autonomy) than Alphatia did/would. That after 1,000 years of, IMO, fairly decient treatment, they would all the sudden secceed, is rediculous; but that's another topic. Pragmatic efficiency, however, is not treachery. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 11:55:56 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic On Tue, 7 Jul 1998, Nicholas Hudson wrote: > I've never read anything that states the World Shield is simply the > planet's core; you may be right, in which case every planet with a core > has magic. The question then becomes why wasn't the Beagle's crew > familiar with magic? They knew about parapsychological phenomena Maybe to them, magic was Parapsychological? Like think of the beagle's crew as a bunch of real-world (Earth) people. They'd have heard of Ghosts, and odd things, but to them, casting a fireball would be completely new and maybe frightening. Maybe to the Beagle's crew, Magic wasn't as commonplace or their core wasn't as strong, magically. > Some people simply lack the discipline necessary to tune in, and > cannot be taught. Others may have a physical impediment that prevents > magic. I agree. But the nega-psychic idea couldn't work in D&D, since magic is a way of life, and everyone has been exposed to it at some point. > Oh, and Max, I was right about Blackmoor mages, wasn't I? :) :P :) Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 10:54:42 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic > > That's what weeds out non magical Alphatians. Lack of commitment, lack of > intelligence, or lack of the personality needed to dedicate him/herself > fully to magical teaching. > I'm not here to contradict that. IMO, my own theory matches yours. However, the game-setting theory doesn't seem to. Folks (like all of Tylion's children) are assumed to be born without the "talent" for learning magic. Perhaps that's just a reflection of cultural belief (I.E. like the arguments over genetic vs. environmental determinism IRL), and things are as you say (such folks, even if smart enough, just lack the inner drive & dedication, or desire, to learn magic, and are thus deemed "incapable" of it). However, in Alphatia especially, the incentive to succeed in learning even *one* spell is so high (your social destiny is determined by it. . .) that IMO if that were the case (and, as I said, in the abstract I personally think your theory is the more valid one), then there would be *lots* more spell-wielding people than their are (and yes, I know that Alphatia & Glantri have the highest percentage of spellcasters anywhere, but they still are in the objective sense a low percentage of the entire population, lower than you might expect when a "low average" [9] intelligence or wisdom is all that is "required" as a game prerequisite for becoming a Wizard or Cleric). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 10:49:37 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Former Alphatian colonies > > There's been alot of talk here lately about the effects of the loss of > Alphatia on Thyatis and Bellisaria. What about the former colonies > though? Is this Baron Norlan's big break? > Definately Norlan's big break; Alphatia always kept his more. . .buccaneering tendancies somewhat in check (somewhat. . . .). I can see him now: "A yo-ho-ho, a Pirate's life is the life for me" > The time for the Jennite > reclamation of Esterhold? > IMO, and IMC, that would have largely happened already. IMC, all that survives of the Alphatian presence in Esterhold are a few coastal enclaves which can be supplied/supported by sea. As I said in another screed, "Barbarian" horse archers are quite a force. . . . . . .. . > I think there're alot of after-effects to WOTI > that we have to focus on also..perhaps something in the next PWA on these > former colonies? > Norwold at least recieved some significant attention, as did the Isle of Dawn colonies, and to a greater or lesser degree the islands & Bellissaria. Makeing these places into more than a NACE backdrop/supporting cast, giving them personalities (and conflicts. . .) of their own would be nice. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #475 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, July 7 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 476 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic on the Floating Continent of Alphatia Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic [MYSTARA] - Physics and Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis, Mystara, and the tone of the World Re: [MYSTARA] - West End Games goes bankrupt Re: [MYSTARA] - Physics and Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic Re: [MYSTARA] - BGPD Re: [MYSTARA] - Agrandizing Alphatia (as if it needs agrandizement) Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis, Mystara, and the tone of the World Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 12:08:21 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic on the Floating Continent of Alphatia << Why not do it for free? A D&D Wish doesn't cost you anything (see above), and you'll get more "goodwill" if you do it for free, and grateful dudes will give you favorable treatement in the future. >> Gratefulness is one of the most sought payments. :-) Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 12:18:28 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic SteelAngel wrote: > On Tue, 7 Jul 1998 Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: > > > bath water, so to speak, and jettisoned the good ("pentaspatial teraspaces" > > and the like) with the bad (a magic system that was a bookkeeping nightmare). > > Has anyone given any thought to spicing up the WotI rules with some of > > the better gold box ideas? > > Well, pentaspatial teraspaces makes no sense (I'll get to that later). > > WoTI simplified attoplane, exaplane, and kiloplane to more recognizable > "coffin sized plane", "Universe" and "Solar System" for starters, and > removed that absolutely useless (and confusing) bias rule. WoTI made the > immortals all powerful, rather than restricted by arbitrary rules. (How > can an Immortal of Time grant his cleric Purify food and water, when he > himself can't use it?!!?) But Immortals of time CAN cast Purify Food and Water. They just find it a bit more difficult. > > > As for the mathematical dimensions, that's a crock. When I first bought > the gold box, back in 88-89 or so, I was reading Hawking's Brief history > of Time, and scoffed at the whole "greater than three" dimensions thing. Not being familiar with the writings of the ornery little fellow (I say that with good nature. But he always did strike me as being a tad cranky, maybe even bitter...) I am unsure of whether you are saying his writings led you to scoff or if you included him in your scoffing. Doesn't really matter, I'm just not sure of the point of your comment...maybe it's just a lead in to your next paragraph..? > > > If an Immortal exists in 4 dimensions, that means he exists as a line > through the entire space-time plane, occupying all points in time per area > of space he/she is in. Sure, this makes chronomancy easy, but it sure > does screw up the entire universe. Say an Immortal is on planet X *NOW*. A > 4D Immortal would be in the same spot 65M years ago, yesterday, tomorrow, > 45k years from now, etc. Not only would this cause paradoxes, should the > immortal return to the same spot, but it would tear the fabric of > space-time apart. Okay. But you are assuming the 4th dimension=time. The Gold Box states quite clearly that their assumption is that the 4th dimension does not=time. End of dilemma. > > > The only reason that they put that into the Gold box, I bet, is because > they made a blanket ruling that all creatures lose a dimension on the > Astral plane, and they wanted Immortals to stay 3d. Not at all. I think the dimensions and spheres and spell system, are what make the gold box elegant in design and flawless in detail. ;P Jeff *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 12:25:10 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos > Be careful believing what tripe you read. Well...alright. But I don't often read tripe....I take to eating it much either... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 13:24:24 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic On Tue, 7 Jul 1998, James Ruhland wrote: > still are in the objective sense a low percentage of the entire population, > lower than you might expect when a "low average" [9] intelligence or wisdom > is all that is "required" as a game prerequisite for becoming a Wizard or > Cleric). Well, to use a martial arts example, maybe the equivalent of learning the first spell is equivalent to becoming a black belt? Anyone can join a Dojo, but only few are determined enough, or skillful enough to go the distance. I have always considered any mage magic to take years of dedication to learn and master. Maybe dropouts from a magical school in Alphatia could have the ability to do a simple cantrip, but they lacked the drive to learn the magical language, or couldn't get it through their heads how to memorize longer enchantments. Or maybe it is that they just can't do it. Like my Fiance cannot easily comprehend calculus, even at a basic level. She's more attuned to History. The same can be said for Magicians. Not everyone can be one. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 13:28:50 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic On Tue, 7 Jul 1998, Daly wrote: > But Immortals of time CAN cast Purify Food and Water. They just find it a bit more > difficult. That is such bunk ;) An Immortal is "all-powerful" ergo, Bob the Immortal should be able to flex his brain and blow up a planet, or purify a glass of milk, irregardless of sphere. > Okay. But you are assuming the 4th dimension=time. The Gold Box states quite > clearly that their assumption is that the 4th dimension does not=time. End of > dilemma. Dangit. Need to re-read the box. Either way, 4 spatial dimensions is not mathematically possible. Read any book on Relativity. > Not at all. I think the dimensions and spheres and spell system, are what make the > gold box elegant in design and flawless in detail. I think we can agree to disagree here :) Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 13:34:19 -0400 From: David Brian Olsen Subject: [MYSTARA] - Physics and Mystara After being on the MML for nearly 2 months now, I've noticed something a little peculiar about it's members. Many of us are physicists! We either have a passion for physics, are students of physics, or (god forbid!) have doctorates in physics. As proof, I point to the threads of "The Science of Magic" and it's techno-babble along with someone (I forget who) actually making calculations about the horizon of Mystara. Who other than people who love physics and math would argue about such things. So I'm just curious, how many of the two-hundred and some-odd of us, enjoy physics? Also I'm wondering, assuming my observation is correct, what attracts science-loving persons to Mystara or role-playing in the first place. Even at my college, which seems to be a small haven for role-playing, the majority of people interested in role-playing are physics majors or of similar fields. You could meet the physics department just by going to one of the monthly LARPs that we have. I'm just wondering what the connecting between the two is. Does it have to do with some strange chemical imbalance in our brains? Sorry, if this is too off-topic. - -David (who is also secretary of the Society of Physics Students Wesleyan Chapter) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 12:32:38 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic > > Well, to use a martial arts example, maybe the equivalent of learning the > first spell is equivalent to becoming a black belt? > I personally agree with your philosophy. However, I'm not sure (not sure=don't know) if that was what TSR intended Mystaran magic to be based on. Sometimes they imply (or even directly state) that the ability to wield magic is a "either you've got it, or you don't" kind of thing, and no ammount of dedication will ever change that (though perhaps a Wish might, but if so then why didn't Edriana Wish up magical potential for some of the children she had with Tylion? Though I guess not even a Wish could improve Mareilla's personality, and it would take many Wishes to make Erical less of a "looser". . .) Anyhow, IMC I go with basically your philosophy. I'm just not sure it's the "canonical" one. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 13:46:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic SteelAngel pontificated: > > As for the mathematical dimensions, that's a crock. When I first bought > the gold box, back in 88-89 or so, I was reading Hawking's Brief history > of Time, and scoffed at the whole "greater than three" dimensions thing. Well, Hawkin himself has went back-and-forth on some of his theories. > If an Immortal exists in 4 dimensions, that means he exists as a line > through the entire space-time plane, occupying all points in time per area > of space he/she is in. Sure, this makes chronomancy easy, but it sure > does screw up the entire universe. Say an Immortal is on planet X *NOW*. A > 4D Immortal would be in the same spot 65M years ago, yesterday, tomorrow, > 45k years from now, etc. Not only would this cause paradoxes, should the > immortal return to the same spot, but it would tear the fabric of > space-time apart. The gold box clearly states that time is a sphere of power, not a dimension based on its rule. All dimensions it talks about are spatial. So, a 4-D object is like a hyper-cube, rather a cube that existed in all times. > Higher dimensional space, such as 5 dimensional space seems ludicrous to > me. 'nuff said :) I guess you don't believe in theory of everything? (I think they assume a higher dimension space... I could be very wrong in that). Personally, I loved the pseudoscience in the gold box. Perfect for a fantasy game :). John Yu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 14:05:03 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic SteelAngel wrote: > On Tue, 7 Jul 1998, Daly wrote: > > > But Immortals of time CAN cast Purify Food and Water. They just find it a bit more > > difficult. > > That is such bunk ;) > An Immortal is "all-powerful" ergo, Bob the Immortal should be able to > flex his brain and blow up a planet, or purify a glass of milk, > irregardless of sphere. You are now assuming that Immortals are "all-powerful". They are not. They have never been described as such. > > > > Okay. But you are assuming the 4th dimension=time. The Gold Box states quite > > clearly that their assumption is that the 4th dimension does not=time. End of > > dilemma. > > Dangit. Need to re-read the box. > Either way, 4 spatial dimensions is not mathematically possible. I disagree. And I think the intro in the Immortals set explains it quite well. Of course there is a 4th dimension. Otherwise, programmers could not write 4-dimensional arrays... > Read any > book on Relativity. No thanks. > > > > Not at all. I think the dimensions and spheres and spell system, are what make the > > gold box elegant in design and flawless in detail. > > I think we can agree to disagree here :) No! We can't! You MUST agree with me! I insist! > > > Max IV > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 12:36:00 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic > > That is such bunk ;) > An Immortal is "all-powerful" ergo, Bob the Immortal should be able to > flex his brain and blow up a planet, or purify a glass of milk, > irregardless of sphere. > I am afraid you are mistaken; Immortals are not all powerful. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 06:16:08 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis, Mystara, and the tone of the World > Thincol wasn't a "dumb fighter", so I dk why he came off that way in much >of the later canon materiel. Neither is Eusibius a "dumb fighter", so I dk >why he comes off that way, either; it seems people often think that if >you're not a spellcaster, and you find yourself in a room with the door >closed, you won't think to turn the doorknob; in other words, if you can't >cast spells, you're a dumb ox who looses his fleet. Thyatis isn't full of >idiots any more than Alphatia is. Did I say Thincol was dumb??? Not me - I reckon Thincol was probably the slipperiest guy on the planet. He was very, very cool. Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 06:10:51 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - West End Games goes bankrupt - --- >Hey all, > >I know this is off topic, but I though everyone here should know. I heard >over the Paranoia RPG message boards today that West End Games, maker of >Paranoia, Star Wars, Ghostbusters, and other games, has filed for bankruptcy. Ouch. And I was going to run Star Wars this holiday. Guess I better buy all the books in the shop while I can! ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 11:53:20 -0700 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Physics and Mystara David: At 01:34 PM 7/7/98 -0400, David Brian Olsen wrote: > After being on the MML for nearly 2 months now, I've noticed >something a little peculiar about it's members. Many of us are >physicists! [...] So I'm just curious, how many of the >two-hundred and some-odd of us, enjoy physics? Well, I'm not a physicist, but I do have a BASc in Computer Engineering :-) I also, however, have a BA in Classical Studies (Studies of Ancient Rome & Greece). > Also I'm wondering, assuming my observation is correct, what >attracts science-loving persons to Mystara or role-playing in the first >place.[...] I'm just wondering what the connecting between the two is. >Does it have to do with some strange chemical imbalance in our brains? Interestingly, all but one of the other individuals I currently play with are either in programs for or have graduated in: Electrical Engineering, Computer Engineering, Systems Engineering (Robotics), or Computer Science. The one annomoly(sp?) in my current gaming group is a Fine Arts/English Double Major. On the other hand, one of my brothers and his friends also RPG, and he and most of his friends are Acting Majors, with a smattering of individuals who never even went to college, including one construction worker and a bank employee... Based on some of the theories of Psychology I've recently been reading up on, I'd suggest that the common thread among most RPG'ers are high levels of "Spatial Intelligence" -- the 'intelligence' that allows us to visualize imagery and solve complex puzzles. "Central to spatial intelligence are the capacities to perceive the visual world accurately, to perform transformations and modifications upon one's initial perceptions, and to be able to re-create aspects of one's visual experience, even in the absence of relevant physical stimuli." [1] [1] Quoted from "Frames of Mind: The Theory of Multiple Intelligences" by Howard Gardner, 10th Anniversary Edition, p173 Most successful Physicists, Engineers and Mathmetitians combine "Spatial" abilities with "Logical-Mathematical Intelligence". Successful Actors and Dancers combine "Spatial" abilities with "Bodily-Kinesthetic Intelligence". Successful Painters and Sculptures tend to exhibit the highest levels of "Spatial" abilities. Everyone has some level of capability for all the different Intelligences (there are six, the other three are Linguistic, Musical and Personal [Sense of Self]) except for those with certain types of brain damage or other brain dysfunctions such as autism. In any case, the 'low down' of my theory with respect to RPG's is that those who play and enjoy these sorts of games need to be able to enjoy the visualization of something that isn't there and to be able to mentally work with and manipulate that. Those who also have logical/mathematical inclinations may be inclined to enhance their understanding of the visualizations by finding psuedo-scientific explanations for them. Those with bodily/kinesthetic inclinations may be more inclined to do LARP where the visualizations can be converted into true movement. Those with linguistic inclinations may be more inclined to write about these visualizations (I bet those who enjoy DM'ing are 'more' linguistically inclined than those who only enjoy playing). This is what makes each RPG'er play in a unique way, but without the ability to spatially visualise things, or a lack of enjoyment from doing so, RPG's would not be as interesting? > Sorry, if this is too off-topic. Well, the occational off-topic post is acceptable, as long as we don't get out of hand. :-) If the topic stays polite and interesting, most people won't mind. On the other hand, if it REALLY starts to go on and on, we can always contine to discuss it in private email. :-) Jenni - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield http://www.jamm.com/jenni/home.html - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- strawberry@jamm.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 19:53:51 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic - --- >> bath water, so to speak, and jettisoned the good ("pentaspatial teraspaces" >> and the like) with the bad (a magic system that was a bookkeeping nightmare). >> Has anyone given any thought to spicing up the WotI rules with some of >> the better gold box ideas? No way dude - the magic system ruled in the Gold Box! Thats the only bit i keep! (How >can an Immortal of Time grant his cleric Purify food and water, when he >himself can't use it?!!?) ??? he can? Immortals could cast every spell in the book in the Gold Box (barring Immortals of Entropy, but i changed that with a house rule). Plus a few spell like effects. The magic circle just varied the cost depending on sphere. Worked all right for me in the few Immortal adventures ive run... Cheerz ROB (outgunned again... ) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 20:34:03 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - BGPD At 12.42 06/07/98 -0500, James Ruhland wrote: > As far as the council being broken, I thought it was alive and well in the >Hollow World, busily building Skyships to dominate both areas? My feeling is that Empress Eriadna is no longer interested in conquering the HW. I don't know if I got this from the PWAs, the Mystaran Almanac or from private discussion inside the Almanac Team, but I think that Alphatia is now more interested in exploring the HW and acting as a sort of patron of the HW, like the USA in real-world. Maybe this is the effect of the Spell of Preservation, that prevents Alphatia from destroying other HW cultures. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 20:51:35 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Agrandizing Alphatia (as if it needs agrandizement) At 15.33 06/07/98 -0500, James Ruhland wrote: > Of course the ONLY place to put the new capital would be on Bellissaria. >There are several good potential locations (Horken or Princetown or >Blueside or a "new" city on the spur/penninsula in the central lake, etc.) There was a good reason for putting it on Monster's Island, I think it was because Monster's Island is neutral ground, something like having Washington in a separate district and in one of the States. > Heck, keeping it at Aquas would be better than Monster Island. Or on >Floating Ar (though, IMC, I had them move the floating "islets" to a better >locale.) Those floating islands were moved in the Net Almanacs too. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 20:28:38 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis, Mystara, and the tone of the World At 17.57 06/07/98 +0100, Rob wrote: > > But another reason I like Mystara is the lack of good/evil. Nations are >nations, nothing more. I agree. > A classic example of this is Darokin - exactly how >people think that this nation is "good" I will never know. Its not a >republic at all - its run by "companies", and corporate interests. Nations >run by companies are rarely "good" in any fiction Ive ever read (check out >the Corporate Sector Authority in Star Wars - they're almost as bad as the >Empire). Darokin is a republic, maybe not a democracy, but certainly a republic. I like Darokin, but I don't care if it's "good" or "bad". I like it just because I think it's a nice place to live in, certainly better than any other country in the KW. PS: another Star Wars fan! Do you know if West End Games has a website? - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 20:41:13 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos At 15.42 06/07/98 -0400, Geoff Gander wrote: >It's not that I don't like the cultural aspect (reminiscent of Illyria and >Dacia, IMO), it's just this: Karameikos is the single most overexposed, >over-detailled, and over-promoted nation in the KW (IMO). Sure, it's >great as a beginner's nation, they say - so is just about every other >nation. The Gaz series provides tons of info for campaigning at all >levels in every nation. I think Karameikos represents the standard fantasy setting. It's a good beginner nation, because you can start from here with every class and race without suffering any penalties. In Glantri, for example, you cannot start as cleric or dwarf; in Alfheim you can just be an elf; in Ethengar it's difficult to play a Hakomon (wizard) and so on. Karameikos has everything: fighter, thieves, clerics (3 sort of them), wizards (with Teldon as teacher), elves, dwarves, halflings and even gnomes. Note, I'm not a Karameikan lover myself, but I thinks it makes the perfect starting place for a group of newbies. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 15:00:10 -0400 From: Michael Ray Johnson Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic James Ruhland wrote: > (though perhaps a Wish might, but if so then why didn't Edriana Wish up > magical potential for some of the children she had with Tylion? Eriadna had children with her father? Ewwwwwwww! Yuck!! :) Sorry. Couldn't resist that. No doubt you meant Torenal, not Tylion. Michael Ray Johnson. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 18:52:00 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos >I hope I haven't offended any Karameikos fans out there, that was not the >intent. Other people have voiced their disfavour for various nations, and >I thought I'd do the same. :-) > >Thank you for listening to this diatribe - I feel much better now :). > You are not alone. I don't see what's the deal about Karameikos either. Glantri is much more interesting, no matter what Jamuga says :) >(who hopes King Stephan has a nasty accident) > Did I mention that I have some ideas for the next Almanac (hint, hint :) ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html Join the Mystaran Birthright PBEM at the above website! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 19:48:28 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos >are positively enlightened. For example, the Open Court, which is a right >of EVERY Karamekian, whether they are Traladaran or Thyatian. > Yeah, and the next day any Traladaran speaks against Thyatians in it, he's going to be beaten senseless by Thyatian bullies. At least Glantri doesn't pretend to be something that it isn't. ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html Join the Mystaran Birthright PBEM at the above website! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 12:11:29 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic >> > Okay. But you are assuming the 4th dimension=time. The Gold Box states quite >> > clearly that their assumption is that the 4th dimension does not=time. End of >> > dilemma. >> >> Dangit. Need to re-read the box. >> Either way, 4 spatial dimensions is not mathematically possible. > >I disagree. And I think the intro in the Immortals set explains it quite well. Of >course there is a 4th dimension. Otherwise, programmers could not write 4-dimensional >arrays... No, the point of special relativity is that space and time are the same thing. That's why black holes are so deadly: not only is your spatial movement directed towards it, so is your temporal movement. The combination of your spatial and temporal vector movement is called your "world-line". As Einstein (I believe) said, "Space is what you measure with a ruler, time is what you measure with a clock." Just as matter and energy are one and the same and can be measured with interchangeable units (it is appropriate to discuss kilograms of energy and joules of mass), so too are space and time: in fact, when doing work with black holes, and special and general relativity, physicists convert both time and mass to metres! That way, everything is in the same units. >> Read any >> book on Relativity. > >No thanks. Hey, there are some well-written and easy to follow books on this fascinating subject. Go straight to the Master: Relativity, by Albert Einstein, is designed to be read by anyone with a high school education. Besides, when I've finished compling my much-awaited and anticipated (by me, at least :)) gazeteer on the oards (based on refinement of my earlier theories, back as nhudson), a background in this subject might help explain certain aspects of temporal warfare. Nicholas Hudson "One Race, One Empire, One Time." -Qartanaq ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #476 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, July 7 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 477 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Republic Darokin Re: [MYSTARA] - Ylari women Re: [MYSTARA] - BGPD Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis, Mystara, and the tone of the World Re: [MYSTARA] - Agrandizing Alphatia (as if it needsagrandizement) Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis, Mystara, and the tone of the World Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Re: [MYSTARA] - EXTRA EXTRA! Re: [MYSTARA] - Former Alphatian colonies Re: [MYSTARA] - Physics and Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Physics and Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic Re: [MYSTARA] - Former Alphatian colonies Re: [MYSTARA] - Physics and Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis, Mystara, and the tone of the World Re: [MYSTARA] - Republic Darokin Re: [MYSTARA] - Republic Darokin Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 20:20:18 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Republic Darokin - -- >> nations, nothing more. A classic example of this is Darokin - exactly how >> people think that this nation is "good" I will never know. Its not a >> republic at all - its run by "companies", and corporate interests. Nations >> run by companies are rarely "good" in any fiction Ive ever read (check out >> the Corporate Sector Authority in Star Wars - they're almost as bad as the >> Empire). >> >Jamuga Khan: >> What are you telling us? Of course Darokin is a republic! >Hehe, trying to raise a flamewar here? :) Uh, no. If you wanted me to I could tho :) I was just mentioned that the Mystaran "Land of the Free" is described as a plutocracy masquerading as a republic. Also, it has probably the most well defined class structure of any Mystaran culture. Fine if your Elite class, but the poor Copper masses lot in life isnt so hot. Also, if the political system is based entirely around cash (which it is) then it would largely be an inherited thing (presuming the idea of PLCs hasnt materialised yet - hmm, perhaps Darokin could do with a hero of their own - a fighter, a mage? No, Adam Smith), where the family of a Guildmaster inherit his cash (and therefore, his influence). And there would be a snowball effect - the more cash you have, the more ability you have to make money, and thus more cash. Also, its a sad fact of economics is that for every rich person there are many poor people. (Unless you reckon that Darokin can support "lap of luxury" living for their entire population). These poor Coppers are most likely very poor indeed. Although, of course, " a good worker is a happy worker", so it wouldnt be a tyranny or anything like that. (I wonder if theres a Darokinian law forbidding the use of undead as slave labourers - unfair market advantage, or something like that :) I think the demihuman clans are fairly good examples of republics - run by a "senate" of Clanmasters, selected by age and wisdom (doubtless better qualities than the ability to squeeze cash out of menial Coppers) headed by a figurehead King. I can just imagine all the skulduggery, industrial espionage, corruption and so on all festering behind the scenes in Darokin, doubtless using the DDC to cover up all their activities (after all, revealing their dirty laundry to the world wont do any Darokinian boss any good) >Actually I have allways thought that Darokin is a pretty good democratic >rebublic. It's just that the laws are a bit more true to the reality >there. They say how it is, rather than covering it with fancy statements. Well, RW democracies at least have a principle which they try (in theory) to uphold. Darokin doesnt even have that. Darokin became a republic when all these Guilds took over the country - not really a good example of a firm foundation for democratic principles IMHO. Anyway, Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 14:22:28 -0500 From: "E Gray" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ylari women - -----Original Message----- From: Nicholas Hudson To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM Date: Tuesday, July 07, 1998 9:16 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ylari women >>The big thing that struck me though was how rarely the issue of >>gender roles came up. It seems that there are very strict gender >>roles in the Emirates and that women are generally a repressed >>minority. I think this would be a nice touch to add in to this culture >>that is presented as egalitarian and utopian. > Along these lines, I've always been suprised at how modern most >nations in Mystara are when it comes to sex. Why? TSR has to accomodate modern trends as much as anyone else.. Think about it: saying women *can't* be adventureres would cost TSR a number of female customers who prefer to play female characters(most of us do tend to play the same sex as we are IRL, afterall). Some might call it being PC, but I think of it as not making an issue of something for no good reason. > Even in some of the most primative tribes, such as the gurrash of the >Savage Coast, women are regarded as equal to men. You do know many anthropoloigists believe that the more primitive cultures are more likely to have equal rights for both sexes? >Individuals, such as Rathanos, maybe have their predjudices, but >socially, women have it better on Mystara than on Earth. Good for TSR, no reason to make a mistake just because it was so on Earth. > I know Mystara is fantasy, but give that many of the nations are >"officially" based on mediveal culture, mayn't one expect a degree of >discrimination? No. Not unless you can show me *why* "medieval" cultures must or even should have such discrimination. Otherwise I'd say your just trying to be too historical at the price of having a good time for all. >Not that I support sexual discrimination mind you, but >it could provide some interesting plot devices and inspirations: female >characters either can't get any help from the authorities, or too much >help from lecherous would-be saviors; have a nasty tendancy of being >kiddnapped by dragons, and having to put up with obnoxius paladins >who think the woman's place is in the home. And while SOME people might like that, I think the majority would prefer not to have the problem. And people who didn't even play the game would take it as proof that TSR just wants women to be barefoot and pregnant.... > Perhaps the players could even lead a sufferage movement; I once >had a very moving and intellectual adventure involving an attempt to >unionize in Minrothad. If you want to do that, you're welcome to DM the game any time you want. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 14:19:46 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - BGPD > > My feeling is that Empress Eriadna is no longer interested in conquering > the HW. I don't know if I got this from the PWAs, > PWAs; that's why the new "Imperial" Kingdom (and the capital) is named after some savage that Eridana adopted as a pet. Note I said "dominate", not "conquer", though; their is a difference. They will push people around as they see fit, but avoid the responsibilities of actual governance. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 14:25:49 -0500 From: "E Gray" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos - -----Original Message----- From: Aleksei Andrievski To: MML Date: Tuesday, July 07, 1998 2:18 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos >At least Glantri doesn't pretend to be something that it isn't. ROTFL.... Temple of Rad anyone? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 12:27:06 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis, Mystara, and the tone of the World >Did I say Thincol was dumb??? Not me - I reckon Thincol was probably the >slipperiest guy on the planet. He was very, very cool. One thing I never understood about Thincol's illness; I mean, this is what I would have done if I were an Immortal looking to gain some powerful worshippers and pick up some PP at the same time: Why didn't any Immortal appear to Thincol (in a dream or teleport him to an Outer Plane, or something), tell him that you will cure him and restore Thyatian glory if he worships you (being careful not to reveal that this is a deal; don't want those pesky mortals to realize that you need them :)), fix Vanya's curse, and send newly restored Thincol home with some nifty new magic items (maybe even some carefully controlled artifacts, or some vicious spells from other TSR worlds for Thyatian mages). Thincol comes back, smashes a few traditional enemies, sucessfully negotiates the end to a bread riot, and explains to everyone the glorious message he has received. Now popular, and with restore health as proof of divine favor, Thincol leads all of Thyatis to worship whichever immortal invests a pittance of PP. I'd say that counts as a major stroke for Vanya, which nets our friend, what, 50 PP? Nicholas Hudson "In the beginning, there was darkness. But before there was darkness, There was Frog." -St. Stephen ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 14:22:09 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Agrandizing Alphatia (as if it needsagrandizement) > > There was a good reason for putting it on Monster's Island, I think it was > because Monster's Island is neutral ground, something like having > Washington in a separate district and in one of the States. > Eagret Island is neutral ground, and it doesn't have the charm that Monster Island does. There are lots of little islands out there that would be more suitable, if you want "neutral ground". Rebuilding an entire new capital in a monster-infested wilderness while you're trying to rebuild your civilization strikes me as a fairly bad idea. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 14:24:36 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis, Mystara, and the tone of the World > > Did I say Thincol was dumb??? Not me - I reckon Thincol was probably the > slipperiest guy on the planet. He was very, very cool. > All I know is he got screwed over in the later canon material, rather rudely and ingloriously (very bad form on the part of the designers. Very disreputable of them), just as Eusibius is getting the stovepipe in the Net Almanac. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 14:26:34 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic > Eriadna had children with her father? Ewwwwwwww! Yuck!! :) > > Sorry. Couldn't resist that. > No doubt you meant Torenal, not Tylion. > Doh! Sorry, yes. All the T names (Torenal, Tylion, Terari, Teldon, Tredorian) sometimes befuddle me. I'm easily confused. Perhaps it's time for my pudding and blanket, followed by a relaxation period wearing a jacket with nice, long sleeves. They even put padding on the walls of my room for me. Very restful. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 20:30:48 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - EXTRA EXTRA! - ----- >>(did I mention Scotland is the greatest country in any dimension). > >>Well, obviously :) > >Scotland has a claim to fame, its true... >Despite the fact that I use *far* more english accents...something >about Cockneys for any inner city nasty people :) Poor Londoners - such a bad reputation. They seem all right to me. The most telling time a cocknet accent came out in a game in which I played was a wererat in Richemulot (yeah, I know, its supposed to be French - Ravenloft for those who missed that one). At one point I (the fighter) was chasing after him through a crowded street (as we knew he was a wererat) while he was overturning carts and stuff and screaming "Bloke's a Nutter! Help!" at the top of his voice... The evil voice has to be upper class Queens English (ask any Hollywood film maker). "Continue with the operation, you may fire when ready. Dantooine is too remote to make an effective demonstration, but don't worry, we will deal with your Rebel friends soon enough..." Cheerz ROB (PS - anyone from England notice that Admiral Ozzel in Empire Strikes Back (guy who gets strangled by Vader) also played the headmaster of Grange Hill?) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 15:36:35 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Former Alphatian colonies James Ruhland said: >IMO, and IMC, that would have largely happened already. IMC, all that >survives of the Alphatian presence in Esterhold are a few coastal enclaves >which can be supplied/supported by sea. As I said in another screed, >"Barbarian" horse archers are quite a force. . . . . . .. . > Right you are! IMO, as soon as word of the sinking/civil war reaches Skothar, the free Jennites would probably sweep in from the east to liberate their enslaved brethren. The kingdom of Verdan, being 20/80 freeman/slave, would likely erupt in a great revolt. Most of the overlords would have been killed IMO (magic or no, they'd still die), and that eastern kingdom would be wiped off the map in months. The other coastal cities would be looted and then possibly forced to pay tribute, while Blackrock might hold out for a while longer before being overwhelmed. With a civil war raging or the chaos following the sinking, it just doesn't make sense to me that Esterhold remained in Alphatian hands, because so much of the empire's might is elsewhere. This is what bugged me about WotI - Ochalea and the Pearl Islands were full members of the Thyatian Empire (full citizenship and everything) for 1000 years, and they revolted and became independent, while the majority of the pop. of Esterhold (slaves) remained in the empire, and they would have had more reason to want out. No matter how powerful you are, when you're outnumbered 8-1 by a horde of enraged people, you lose, IMO. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 12:38:40 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Physics and Mystara >> After being on the MML for nearly 2 months now, I've noticed >something a little peculiar about it's members. Many of us are >physicists! We either have a passion for physics, are students of >physics, or (god forbid!) have doctorates in physics. As proof, I point >to the threads of "The Science of Magic" and it's techno-babble along >with someone (I forget who) actually making calculations about the >horizon of Mystara. Who other than people who love physics and math >would argue about such things. So I'm just curious, how many of the >two-hundred and some-odd of us, enjoy physics? I've taken all osrts of physics classes, starting with AP Physics in high school; my teacher was an ex-particle physicst, who spent his summers in a super-colliding super conductor! I'm >just wondering what the connecting between the two is. Does it have to >do with some strange chemical imbalance in our brains? > > Sorry, if this is too off-topic. Just an idea, but I imagine those who play this game like hacking with the rules of reality, modifying timelines, and exploring the deep nature of magic. Nowadays, that's very similar to what physics is doing with our real world; modern physics is getting pretty fantastic, wilder than anything a science-fiction author ever came up with (like the particle-wave duality). Nicholas Hudson ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 15:39:31 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Physics and Mystara On Tue, 7 Jul 1998, David Brian Olsen wrote: > Also I'm wondering, assuming my observation is correct, what > attracts science-loving persons to Mystara or role-playing in the first I dunno why i'm attracted to Mystara. It may be because of the whole "highly technological civilization/world shattering explosion/etc." Or maybe; this is a better idea: We Physicists like logic, and numbers, and information and have a mad creative streak (that's why I am double majoring in music too :). I loved the PWAs. They were fun to read and they had all the info anyone would ever need. This is why i love gaves like Chrono Trigger (way off topic) just the way you can affect the world by doing things in the past, makes the game that much more cohesive. The same is true for Mystara. The world is cohesive and logical, very real world, yet very fantastic. Borders are never stable, Heroes pop up out of nowhere, Jihads are won and lost, and we crazed people on the net bottle it up into almanacs and fan fiction and whatever. Look at Toril, or Dragonlance.. There are novels, sure. But do they have an all-incompassing book that tells the daily lives of the non-Elminsters? I think not. Can 1 PC change the fate of the world, when the major NPC's cannot? Only In Mystara. > department just by going to one of the monthly LARPs that we have. I'm hehe. The major LARP'ers in my school are the CS people. And they play Realms. Not NERO, or DragonRealms, just plain Realms.. Bah.. > do with some strange chemical imbalance in our brains? No.. that's why we're Physics people ;) Max IV - noting that 100% of the PH dept here at WPI is insane. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 15:41:03 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic On Tue, 7 Jul 1998, James Ruhland wrote: > Anyhow, IMC I go with basically your philosophy. I'm just not sure it's > the "canonical" one. Is there an canonical philosophy? I know that the DoTE Alph gaz talked about how some have it or some don't, but they didn't give rules. It was kind of "in passing" mentioned. Max IV - MML, breaking canon when it makes sense. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 15:45:21 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic On Tue, 7 Jul 1998, Shin Chyang Yu wrote: > Well, Hawkin himself has went back-and-forth on some of his theories. Yeah, his whole Imaginary time ideas are interesting to say the least. > dimension based on its rule. All dimensions it talks about are spatial. > So, a 4-D object is like a hyper-cube, rather a cube that existed in > all times. Woo hoo! Immortals are glorified hypercubes! I don't like it, though. The pseudoscience in the GB is good, but WoTI really made the whole Immortal experience easier to understand and a lot more flexible. Plus the Gold box is a bit dated. All the rules boxes are. They were fine for the time, but realistcally, they were working on an unfleshed world. WoTI works better with the Gaz's and the RC. (Though the RC Immortals chapter was really dumb.) > I guess you don't believe in theory of everything? 42, that's all you need know. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 15:50:18 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic On Tue, 7 Jul 1998, Daly wrote: > You are now assuming that Immortals are "all-powerful". They are not. They have never > been described as such. I put "all-powerful" in quotes. I didn't intend it to be taken literally. Immortals are all-powerful from a mortal standpoint. Immortals are nothing from an Old One's standpoint Old Ones are nothing from Leroy's standpoint. Either way, an Immortal can create a Universe. Why limit his spell lists? I said: 4-d is not mathematically possible I am wrong. I meant physically possible, since you can't physically have 4 mutually orthogonal axes in space. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 14:46:30 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Former Alphatian colonies > they would have had more reason to want out. No matter how powerful you > are, when you're outnumbered 8-1 by a horde of enraged people, you lose, > IMO. > Well, 4:1, but other than that I agree with you completely. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 15:55:56 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Physics and Mystara On Tue, 7 Jul 1998, Nicholas Hudson wrote: > than anything a science-fiction author ever came up with (like the > particle-wave duality). That's not that new (circa 1920's) But In the New Beief history of Time, Hawking talks about Imaginary Time, now that's something cool. The Big Bang never happened, the universe just sort of grew. It also removes singularities, like Black Holes and what-not. I don't understand half of it. Good stuff though. Max IV - Going way off topic. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 16:00:39 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic Nicholas Hudson wrote: > >> > Okay. But you are assuming the 4th dimension=time. The Gold Box > states quite > >> > clearly that their assumption is that the 4th dimension does > not=time. End of > >> > dilemma. > >> > >> Dangit. Need to re-read the box. > >> Either way, 4 spatial dimensions is not mathematically possible. > > > >I disagree. And I think the intro in the Immortals set explains it > quite well. Of > >course there is a 4th dimension. Otherwise, programmers could not > write 4-dimensional > >arrays... > > No, the point of special relativity is that space and time are the > same thing. That's why black holes are so deadly: not only is your > spatial movement directed towards it, so is your temporal movement. The > combination of your spatial and temporal vector movement is called your > "world-line". As Einstein (I believe) said, "Space is what you measure > with a ruler, time is what you measure with a clock." Just as matter and > energy are one and the same and can be measured with interchangeable > units (it is appropriate to discuss kilograms of energy and joules of > mass), so too are space and time: in fact, when doing work with black > holes, and special and general relativity, physicists convert both time > and mass to metres! That way, everything is in the same units. That is fine. But dimensions and time are seperate in the Gold Box. They simply went with a theory that is not one you favor. But don't criticize it from your own bias. Do I make sense here? In other words, those who maintain that time is the 4th dimension are basing their view on a THEORY. There are alternative theories out there. The Gold Box presupposes a seperate theory. But it is unfair to say "They are wrong because I think the 4th dimension is time". > > > >> Read any > >> book on Relativity. > > > >No thanks. > > Hey, there are some well-written and easy to follow books on this > fascinating subject. Go straight to the Master: Relativity, by > Albert Einstein, is designed to be read by anyone with a high school > education. Wow! Okay, thanks. I'll have to look it up. I like old Albert... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 14:53:42 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis, Mystara, and the tone of the World > > One thing I never understood about Thincol's illness; I mean, this > is what I would have done if I were an Immortal looking to gain some > powerful worshippers and pick up some PP at the same time: Why didn't > any Immortal appear to Thincol (in a dream or teleport him to an Outer > Plane, or something), > Perhaps it just was considered "not cricket" to do that. Perhaps it was to keep things simple for the game designers (who were particularly unimaginative about that whole thing, IMO, but more on that some other time.) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 16:02:53 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Republic Darokin Rob wrote: > (I wonder if > theres a Darokinian law forbidding the use of undead as slave labourers - > unfair market advantage, or something like that :) I love it! Necromancy is illegal in Darokin because of economic reasons! Yes! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 16:02:53 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Republic Darokin Rob wrote: > (I wonder if > theres a Darokinian law forbidding the use of undead as slave labourers - > unfair market advantage, or something like that :) I love it! Necromancy is illegal in Darokin because of economic reasons! Yes! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 16:02:50 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos >>(who hopes King Stephan has a nasty accident) > Did I mention that I have some ideas for the next Almanac (hint, hint :) Okay, are we killing off the rest of the important NPC's next year? - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 16:06:29 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos << Where has Karameikos ever been the focal point before? (other than the gaz and modules concerning Karameikos only) >> And nearly all high-level Karameikans are leaving for elsewhere, like Claransa the Seer. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #477 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, July 7 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 478 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - I DO happen to like Karameikos (big surprise) Re: [MYSTARA] - BGPD Re: [MYSTARA] - Republic Darokin Re: [MYSTARA] - For all you Karamekian anti-fans (and fans, too) Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos Re: [MYSTARA] - Ylari women Re: [MYSTARA] - Republic Darokin Re: [MYSTARA] - Republic Darokin Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis, Mystara, and the tone of the World Re: [MYSTARA] - Ylari women Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic Re: [MYSTARA] - Physics and Mystara [MYSTARA] - Wishes - it has started... Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian "civil war" Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Armies: all "reserves"? Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos [MYSTARA] - The War of Wrath - an alternative for what Emperor and Empress were up to... Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis, Mystara, and the tone of the World Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 16:06:33 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I DO happen to like Karameikos (big surprise) << Oh, wonderful...the Borg have taken Mirros...quick, get some Blackmoor devices... Sir Alexius Dannelaran Knight of the Order of the Griffon >> "Oh, yes, you've finally founded the communicator. Hm, let's try: Mystara calls Federation and Starfleet, Mystara calls Federation and Starfleet. Commander Riker, can you hear me? We've got Borg, only you can save Mystarakind..." Jamuga Khan "Psst, I hear steps...oh no, it's the BORG!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 16:06:25 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - BGPD << I respectfully disent. The Spell of Preservation would limit things some, but doesn't really interfier with the "magical lifestyle" all that much. The main restrictions are on rapid movement and certain divinatory magics. IMO, the "Alphatian Way of Life" will do just fine without access to such things. Sure, Mages can't Teleport. That is a big change. But they have flying beasts and ships, and they can still build their homes with magic, light them with magic, etc. >> No golems? No wishes? No magic-users/clerics with less than INT/WIS of 16? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 16:06:20 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Republic Darokin << > What are you telling us? Of course Darokin is a republic! > It's not a democratic republic like the USA, France or > Germany, but a republic nonetheless. On the other hand > Canada and Norway are democratic states, but no > republics. > Just about everything can be a Republic; despotic states run by Oligarchs (I.E. Darokin), Dictatorships, etc. are all Republics, because they don't have a hereditary ruling class. But you know what he was trying to say. >> To tell the truth, not exactly. Anyway it's better to use the names correctly, and Darokin is a republic. They even have elections in the Heartlands, so it could qualify as a democratic republic. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 16:07:01 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - For all you Karamekian anti-fans (and fans, too) << >For us "newbies", what's the URL? Oh, right...The Mighty Khan has been kind enough to put aside any enmity between the Ethengar Khanates and the Kingdom of Karameikos so that this story may be preserved for posterity. The URL is http://members.aol.com/JamugaKhan/Mystara/TheQuest/TheQuest.html >> And of course I can censor it and remove all those anti-Ethengarian tirades pity Sir Alexius constantly utters. :-) Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 16:07:04 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos << Okay, so if Stephan is such an awful man and so hateful toward Traladarans, then why do so many of them love him? >> Why are corrupt politics re-elected? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 16:07:09 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ylari women << Along these lines, I've always been suprised at how modern most nations in Mystara are when it comes to sex. Even in some of the most primative tribes, such as the gurrash of the Savage Coast, women are regarded as equal to men. Individuals, such as Rathanos, maybe have their predjudices, but socially, women have it better on Mystara than on Earth. >> Don't forget that there's a very simple reason why the genders are more or less equal. A man cannot dare to mistreat an unknown woman as she might kill him with ease. If he knows the woman and knows that she is of no danger to him, any super-woman (like Valerias or Vanya) might send her minions to punish him. Really bad times for machos. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 15:03:02 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Republic Darokin > > I was just mentioned that the Mystaran "Land of the Free" is described as a > plutocracy masquerading as a republic. Also, it has probably the most well > defined class structure of any Mystaran culture. Fine if your Elite class, > but the poor Copper masses lot in life isnt so hot. > Well, yes and no: it has a sharply defined class system, but it is possible to go from Copper to Elite, merely by aquiring wealth ("by any means nessisary"). This flexability (I.E. it's a class, not a caste, system) is important in co-opting the "Copper masses" into supporting the system. Even if, for most of them, they'll remain exactly where they started in life. Hell, it's not that unusual. In another nation, it was possible to go from outlander, to slave-gladiator, to Emperor. But it is more explicit, and thus more transparent, in Darokin. Everyone knows exactly what needs to be done (amass wealth, beg, borrow, or steal) to rise to prominence. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 15:03:02 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Republic Darokin > > I was just mentioned that the Mystaran "Land of the Free" is described as a > plutocracy masquerading as a republic. Also, it has probably the most well > defined class structure of any Mystaran culture. Fine if your Elite class, > but the poor Copper masses lot in life isnt so hot. > Well, yes and no: it has a sharply defined class system, but it is possible to go from Copper to Elite, merely by aquiring wealth ("by any means nessisary"). This flexability (I.E. it's a class, not a caste, system) is important in co-opting the "Copper masses" into supporting the system. Even if, for most of them, they'll remain exactly where they started in life. Hell, it's not that unusual. In another nation, it was possible to go from outlander, to slave-gladiator, to Emperor. But it is more explicit, and thus more transparent, in Darokin. Everyone knows exactly what needs to be done (amass wealth, beg, borrow, or steal) to rise to prominence. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 16:13:48 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis, Mystara, and the tone of the World James Ruhland wrote: > > > > Did I say Thincol was dumb??? Not me - I reckon Thincol was probably the > > slipperiest guy on the planet. He was very, very cool. > > > All I know is he got screwed over in the later canon material, rather > rudely and ingloriously (very bad form on the part of the designers. Very > disreputable of them), just as Eusibius is getting the stovepipe in the Net > Almanac. Oh I disagree. I think there was absolute poetry in Thincol's demise. All his life he had been defined by his enemy. That picture in DotE was very appropriate I think. The empress and emperor facing off across the world... In my campaign, I have things building. The Thyatian arena characters have just saved Thincol's life. They have been promoted from wretched slave to honored hero. They will soon embark on personal missions of the emperor. They will begin as glorified tools...they will witness the stern arrogance of the man. But, hopefully...if I play him right....they will come to respect and maybe even love him. They will see the horrible state of his personal life and try, vainly, to alleviate some of it. They will be present at the Helskir summit...as will the Alphatian characters.... Anyway, it is the struggle, the conflict, that is all-important at this stage in the campaign. Who will win? That is the exciting question. The Alphatian (Norwold) characters will likely want the empires to remain in conflict...while the Thyatian characters might be a bit more geared toward wanting victory. Then comes the answer. But it isn't the one any of them wanted. Alphatia destroyed and Thyatis on the verge of ruin. A sad and broken man longs for his departed wife... *sigh* I think it is a great dramatic ending...personally... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 13:16:15 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ylari women I'd like to say that: 1. I'm not for sexual discrimination, and if anyone, especially any women, thought that I humbly apoligize. I don't interpret anyone's comments as meaning that, but I'd like to be careful. 2. I don't even necessarily support having any in the game. I feel as though it could be used responsibly and intelligently, but I can also appreciate E Gray's view. I would follow the advice given in the Basic set regarding deities and reglions: Care should be taken not to needlessly offend players. If your group can use this as a plot device or to further the game experience, by all means, do so. If not, it's probably best glossed over or left out entirely. The point is to have fun, right? 3. As for primative cultures, I'd say it's a tossup. Some are free of sexual bias, thers aren't. While some socities may be open in day-to-day life and even include matrilineal descent, most political power is focused in the priestly class, which often is overwhelmingly male. Besides, aren't all of Mystara's nations primitive to a degree? I mean, how many even have gunpowder? Two? >> Perhaps the players could even >> lead a sufferage movement; I once had a very moving and intellectual >> adventure involving an attempt to unionize in Minrothad. > >Sounds interesting. Care to elaborate? It involved a nosferatu (Minrothad is crawlin' with them, and this was one of the first the party ever encountered, so they didn't know what to make of it) who owned several weapons production artisian shops. Although she (see!) only owned a moderate number of shops, they were in key economic positions, distributing (shipping controlled by the same nosferatu in a shadowy deal with certain velya merrow) these weapons throughout the Minrothad-Karameikos area, and supplying parts to just about every weapons shop that the party had access to. Tired of the exhorbiant wages necessary for the many assistants needed, the nosferatu decided to replace the unskilled workers with undead ("Naw they're foreign. That's why they don't speak much."). As any good evil business magnate should be, she was cozy with the local authorities, who would ignore any illegal doings and even send force to support her. This naturally led to a revolt by the workers, who decided to unionize (not in so many words; the concept of a modern formal union of tradeworkers, as opposed to the Guild system, was a while aways) and strike. Business responded as they did historically in the early labour movement: police, hired thugs, delayed blast fireballs in crowded meetings, et c., which only escalated the situation. The problem for the PCs was primarily one of economics (they had done some good deeds in the area prior, and so had the good will to negotiate an outcome either way): if they supported the workers, prices for their most basic supplies, weapons, would skyrocket. On top of this, I made the workers a tad unlikeable and gruff, and the nosferatu would attempt to bribe or charm the PCs. Their hearts may lie with the workers, but their pocketbooks lie with the owner. That's the political backdrop; the adventuring included finding evidence of wrongdoing, exposing the crooked sweetheart deals and web of kickbacks endemic to the business. The most interesting part for the players is the economic and moral decisions they had to play (in real life, they got into a politcal arguement, with the republicans in the group fighting the democrats, and the lone libertarian sparring with the two self-proclaimed "communists"). >> "In the beginning, there was darkness. But before there was >> darkness, there was Frog." -St. Stephen > >Good quote! One of the things I anticipated when I was gearing up for that >adventure, was being able to read those prayers to the party...some of them are >still laughing! You find it funny? Blasphemy! How dare you mock Frog, and His Amphibianess St. Stephen!?! I've always found the Order of the Frog to be my favorite villians, and even have a sinister sect operating in modern times, headed by an old friend... Nicholas Hudson ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 16:20:53 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic SteelAngel wrote: > On Tue, 7 Jul 1998, Daly wrote: > > > You are now assuming that Immortals are "all-powerful". They are not. They have never > > been described as such. > > I put "all-powerful" in quotes. I didn't intend it to be taken literally. > Immortals are all-powerful from a mortal standpoint. > Immortals are nothing from an Old One's standpoint > Old Ones are nothing from Leroy's standpoint. > > Either way, an Immortal can create a Universe. Why limit his spell lists? > > > > I said: > > 4-d is not mathematically possible > > I am wrong. > > I meant physically possible, since you can't physically have 4 mutually > orthogonal axes in space. > > But then imagine if there was a 4 dimensional object. What sort of creatures could see it? Come on man! Did you not sit in math class, the very first time they took you from tables to graphs...the very first time they explained how to solve equations with 2 variables...and how to graph them...and then that there is a third axis...a "z" axis....and then the mention "Well, it would take to much to really explain it at this point...but you can toss on an infinite number of variables--" And then your brain took the jump that none of your classmates' brains took, "Wait a minute. Dimensions...1, 2, 3, 4? An infinite number of dimensions? Okay, a point is dimensionless, a line is 1, a plane is 2, and a cube is 3...what is 4?" Admit it! You tried to picture it. You strained hard to picture it. You tried to imagine it. And imagination is what it is all about right? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 13:29:18 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Physics and Mystara >> Sorry, if this is too off-topic. > Well, the occational off-topic post is acceptable, as long as we don't >get out of hand. :-) If the topic stays polite and interesting, most >people won't mind. On the other hand, if it REALLY starts to go on and on, >we can always contine to discuss it in private email. :-) > Jenni >-=> strawberryJAMM <=- Hey, if you take this private would you mind a tag-along? This seems to have hit the nail on the head so to speak. Fascinating :-) Later. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 20:41:52 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Wishes - it has started... >Why not do it for free? A D&D Wish doesn't cost you anything (see above), >and you'll get more "goodwill" if you do it for free, and grateful dudes >will give you favorable treatement in the future. Exactly the reason it was made more balanced in AD+D... Something must have made TSR tack these penalties on certain spells (haste - doubles the parties damage - in my experience a hasted party goes through monsters like a lightsaber through a Jedi's hand). Could it be because they are gross? Sorry about this IMO post, but this is the pinnacle of why I don't like 1000 36th level mages wandering about. At least in AD+D, even if you have that as the case, you have at least SOME restriction... Otherwise the situation is... Alphatia and Thyatis declare war. Day 1... An enterprising 36th level Alphatian wizard. I wish my next spell cast will pierce any magical defences... I wish Emperor Thincol is summoned to the Alphatian dungeons. *many wishes later* Now my mate Bob here has all stats of 20! *a couple more* Cool! A permanent portal to a demiplane I made where time runs really fast compared to other planes, so I can take people there, cast lots of wish spells over a couple years, (and do a bit of spell research on the side) and have only a blink of time pass Back Home! *more wishes* thats solved that damn aging problem - I hate grey hairs... etc. etc. etc. If you reckon wishes on tap arent going to wreck the planet, you havnt played a mage who can cast wish. Or, your scaling down the power of a wish spell. BTW - I dont like 10th level spells either. There is no need for them. You have Wish. Wish can do anything the DM allows. You need more??? Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 20:47:35 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian "civil war" > The below sounds nasty. Depending on how Intense things get, that >could be a even more devistating war that WotI (Civil Wars can be pretty >gruesome) I don't know about that. From the little Ive read the English civil war was more laughable than gruesome... As an example, a pikeman didnt actually have to stab up his mates if he didnt want to. He could just jostle and push a bit, and the guys on the other side, thankful that they didnt have to fight and maybe die, would generally put the pikes away and jostle a bit back... As another slightly humourous (if not very nice) tidbit, apparently during the siege of Bristol the Roundheads tried to make a big raft to sneak some soldiers in behind the walls over the sea. Sadly, it sank about halfway. I think that war was more about who bungled the least, rather than any acts of brilliance on either side... Of course, my sources are somewhat low quality... :) Cheerz ROB (who, incidentally, checked out the statue of Oliver Cromwell today outside Parliament. He looks really cool! (no warts on the statue). And he had a rapier, which immediately amps up the coolness factor) > IMO, though, there is a lot of (usually low level) internal. . .discord. . >.in Alphatia even in normal times. All thouse defensive walls and frontier >fortifications aren't aimed at the Thyatians (which could never get so >far), but at each other. . . . >> >> Well, I've shared my way of doing it in the past, but the way I'll do it >> when my campaign reaches that time (still in AC 1000 right now) is >> probably the Doomsday Device destroys only Sundsvall and vicinity (most >of >> Vertiloch, northern Theranderol, etc.), and with the demise of so many >top >> wizards, the more liberal nations (such as Draco and Greenspur) will >> decide to declare independence (along with Belissaria and the IoD). The >> Alphatian motherland is embroiled in a huge civil war, and pretty much >the >> rest of the events play out as officially given. Alliances form amongst >> the nations, and others try to get involved. It will be an interesting >10 >> years or so. Maybe I'll do up a timeline someday. >> >> Geoff >> >> -- >> Geoff Gander, BA 97 >> Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon >> Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog >> au998@freenet.carleton.ca >> >*************************************************************************** >> To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the >line >> 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 20:51:48 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Armies: all "reserves"? >> yes i have all of the pwas. if you look at the armies of the world >section >> you'll see that those hw alphatian units are almost uniformly described >as >> being reserve divisions. >> >I respectfully disent, and offer the following to support my argument: That depends which PWA you read. In one (the first, I think) there is no "Alphatian" army - all the individidual kingdoms have their own little armies - and they are of reserve standard. Eriadna does a reshuffle of the army, which results in the rather hard PWA 2 listings. If you think about it, the SoP could be responsible for the Ancient, Mighty Empire of Alphatia regaining its former might somewhat quickly. Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 20:55:24 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos >Not to mention his booted heel on the neck of the Traldarans, and letting >the "overbearing Thyati[an]" nobility he brought with him run rampant over >"traditional" Traldaran aristocrats (which your "overbearing Thyatians" had >left largely untouched. . .befor Stefan took over). > As I said before, Stefan just had excellent propagandists, willing to >excuse his every fault and paint everything in the best possible light for >him. It doesn't take much tweaking of the words used to describe >events---and no change in "Karameikan" History, to show the "Dark Side" of >Stefan. > Perhaps he's really Lawful Evil after all. It would be cool if when Stefan was old and grey haired if he became a nutter like King Edward in Braveheart (he was a most worthy character - up there with the Emperor). All this "No Traladarans, Karameikans" theme could be interpreted as "if we can't get them out, we breed them out...". Unlikely. I dont mind Karameikos as it is. I always thought it was heavily implied that Stefan really IS Halav returned (besides, its cool if the Cult of Halav had it right all along!) and IS leading Traladara into a new Golden Age. (It seems that way, anyhow). Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 21:42:15 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: [MYSTARA] - The War of Wrath - an alternative for what Emperor and Empress were up to... >The least they could have done was give Thincol a "Michael the >Paphlagonian" style exit. Well, I'm gearing up the War of Wrath, and I reckon Thincols exit is really cool. First off, for those who've not read Talons of Night, in that adventure Thincol and Eriadna wind up in some weird demiplane of undead (they become sort of zombie type things), fall in love, set up the Empire of Thyphatia, die of old age (different timestream stuff), get cloned by the PCs thanks to some flesh Eriadna thoughtfully preserved, and continue merrily on with no memory of what happened. No. A far cooler thing could happen - Eriadna becomes Lich (realm of undead), falls in love with Thincol, Thincol dies, Eriadna waits for PCs to rescue her because shes trapped there, returns, Thincol gets cloned, Eriadna gets un Liched by a Wish. Eriadna still loves Thincol, Thincol cant remember (coz he was cloned...). Kind of tragic, that. I love it. Later on, Alphatia goes for Glantri, Thyatis says "no way, imperialist dudes!", the Mystaran equivalent of World War 1 is started. Eriadna, still loving Thincol, forbids assassination attempts, overwhelming magical destruction of Thyatis and that sort of thing (well, thats those 1000 mages out of the fight - Good! :). After many years of total carnage, Thincol thinks about it, repents somewhat (it was Vanya who put him up to it after all, poor dupe - and he cant have been all bad, because he didnt kill Eriadna's son, as treaty demanded) and sues for peace. Vanya is mighty put out and curses Thincol. With Thyatis out of the way, those 1000 wizards can be unleashed without her beloved getting blown away, so Glantri is on the receiving end. Sadly, Etienne d'Ambreville has researched a new 10th level spell, Plot Twist, and Alphatia ends up in the Hollow World :) Thincol the Brave is dying - a tragic death for such a mighty warrior. His final days are spent in repentance, mulling over what he has done, and trying to prepare the Empire to go on after his demise. His efforts to do this are noted by all, and at his eventual funeral, there is a massive turnout from the population of Thyatis City, and the Empire mourns his death... Awwwwwww - Thincol gets his absolution after all... I think thats a cool way to go. Cheerz ROB (who likes tragic stories like this stuff. Of course, Eriadna has to live with it, but thats life! (literally!)) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 21:44:47 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis, Mystara, and the tone of the World - ---->Your above remarks were more cogent than all the ranting screeds I penned. Your ranting "screeds" are cool. If nothing else, they broaden my vocabulary. (Screed? He's an admiral in Star Wars!) Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 13:47:38 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic >Maybe to them, magic was Parapsychological? Like think of the beagle's >crew as a bunch of real-world (Earth) people. They'd have heard of Ghosts, >and odd things, but to them, casting a fireball would be completely new >and maybe frightening. > >Maybe to the Beagle's crew, Magic wasn't as commonplace or their core >wasn't as strong, magically. Well, erhaps, but according to the module, the originally thought it was parapsychological talents, but then they seem to change their minds when they find out about the energy field. The point of psionics is that the power comes from within, from the individual, instead of from an external field or a deity Something really interesting: according to the same paragraph, the field was strongest just north of where the Beagle landed: Blackmoor! If anyone runs an adventure in Skothar (supposedly the continent that housed Blackmoor), or if anyone writes anything for it, you could have some interesting magic abilities, like everyone being able to cast spells, unique spells, longer range/duration, et c.. >I agree. But the nega-psychic idea couldn't work in D&D, since magic is a >way of life, and everyone has been exposed to it at some point. Not necessarily. In Beyond the Supernatural, the negapsychic is a character class: s/he is going to be fighting demons and ghosts; s/he won't believe what's going on, but is still able to function, even with all of the paranormal activity. Besides, their powers actually prevent a lot of paranormal pheneomena from working at full strength, or at all. Negasychics are allowed in Rifts, and if there is a more openly paranormal world, I haven't heard of it. >> Oh, and Max, I was right about Blackmoor mages, wasn't I? :) > >:P :P St. Nicholas, Primarch of the Teeth of the Frog ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #478 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, July 7 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 479 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Armies: all "reserves"? Re: [MYSTARA] - BGPD Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian "civil war" Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian "civil war" Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Armies: all "reserves"? Re: [MYSTARA] - Timeline junk [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Greatness and Thyatian Withering Re: [MYSTARA] - Wishes - it has started... Re: [MYSTARA] - Wishes - it has started... Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Greatness and Thyatian Withering Re: [MYSTARA] - Timeline junk Re: [MYSTARA] - Timeline junk Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatian Military ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 16:52:51 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Armies: all "reserves"? In a message dated 98-07-06 17:27:13 EDT, jruhlconob@sprynet.com writes: << > > yes i have all of the pwas. if you look at the armies of the world section > you'll see that those hw alphatian units are almost uniformly described as > being reserve divisions. > I respectfully disent, and offer the following to support my argument: [troop divisions snipped]>> i never implied that the entire hw alphatian forces were entirely composed of reserve divisions. what i said was that they were almost. and i stand by that for now. true there are a goodly chunk of regular divisions, but there is also a large chunk of reserve divisions, 34 to be exact. <> but you do bring about an interesting point to ponder. if there are so many troops on hw alphatia then just imagine the potential number of troops that were stranded on the outside world. << The "Reserve Divisions" are less than 20% 0-level (1,000 of 5,300), and 500 are 2nd level (Regiment 6). The "Regular Divisions" (Cohorts) of Thyatis, a nation supposedly known for it's fighters, haven't even got the same amount of 2nd level fighters as the Alphatian "Reserve Divisions", btw, and these "Reserve Divisions" that you lament have comperable BRs (71 vs. 73) to Darokin's regular Legions. >> but they are reserve divisions. their high BRs are due to their composition. each reserve division is listed as being of Troop Class:Below Average which gives them a BFR in the area of 36-55. make the adjustments and you get a BR of 71. imo this reorganization was pretty coincidental to bolster the combat ability of the hw alphatian forces. the 0-level humans were an obvious modifier to show a weakened defense force. however the authors over compensated by including so many elves and mages for the BR boon. Speaking of elves, there are just too many elves within these forces, reserve and regular. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 15:51:33 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - BGPD > > No golems? No wishes? No magic-users/clerics with less > than INT/WIS of 16? > Do they need wishes? Ok: constructs I think should be granted some leway on, but how many Golems do they need? IMO, that's not a major aspect of the "Alphatian way of life" either (all the wogs. . .er, servile classes, exist to serve the Wizards, they don't need constructs since everyone else is their slave, either de jure or de facto). Hmmmn. . ."no magic-users/clerics with less than INT/WIS of 16" is a good one, but IMO not something that has to be settled just now (any spellcaster who is already a spellcaster is "grandfathered in" when Alphatia is transported.) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 15:56:20 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian "civil war" > > > The below sounds nasty. Depending on how Intense things get, that > >could be a even more devistating war that WotI (Civil Wars can be pretty > >gruesome) > > I don't know about that. From the little Ive read the English civil war was > more laughable than gruesome... > I did say "depending on how intense things get". Which English civil war? The war of the Roses? or the one with Cromwell? The latter was pretty intense (though not very distructive, and a lot of ineptitude was displayed, as you described. I guess it's a good thing it ended before anyone got good at the job, like happened during the American one eventually). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 15:56:20 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian "civil war" > > > The below sounds nasty. Depending on how Intense things get, that > >could be a even more devistating war that WotI (Civil Wars can be pretty > >gruesome) > > I don't know about that. From the little Ive read the English civil war was > more laughable than gruesome... > I did say "depending on how intense things get". Which English civil war? The war of the Roses? or the one with Cromwell? The latter was pretty intense (though not very distructive, and a lot of ineptitude was displayed, as you described. I guess it's a good thing it ended before anyone got good at the job, like happened during the American one eventually). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 22:04:50 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic - ----->I meant physically possible, since you can't physically have 4 mutually >orthogonal axes in space. lol. According to the GB, you can, but your puny mortal mind cannot conceive of it. However, an Immortal mind can. ??? I dont use dimensions anyway IMC... :) Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 17:13:11 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic On Tue, 7 Jul 1998, Daly wrote: > But then imagine if there was a 4 dimensional object. What sort of > creatures could see it? Obviously I can't build one, but I can almost picture one. But what a hypercube is its just an object in which each face is a cube. It's not easy to picture but you can do it. I think M.C.Escher drew things similar to them in some of his works. On that line, I'm sure that Immortals could play around with 3D versions of Escheresque works. That's be interesting to see Escher's Triangle in the foyer of Khronus's house. But like the 13-sided regular polygon, those objects exist as non-physical mathematical/optical constructs. We can theorize about a Triskadecahedron, but we can't build one (tho in Call of Cthulu you lose much SAN if you see one). Whether Immortals are powerful enough to exist in Hyper-space is immaterial, since it really doesn't add anything to them, except for a layer of complexity that they don't need. 4th order Tensors are fun, but if your player can't even picture it, then it isn't very useful. But then again, this is a *game*, not reality :) I guess I'm being far too anal about R/L Physics in the Mystaran multiverse. Max IV - Wondering if he should design a tesselated plane in hyperbolic space. Immortal project anyone? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 16:10:32 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Armies: all "reserves"? > > i never implied that the entire hw alphatian forces were entirely composed of > reserve divisions. what i said was that they were almost. and i stand by that > for now. true there are a goodly chunk of regular divisions, but there is also > a large chunk of reserve divisions, 34 to be exact. > Ahhh, I see: they were given the best army by far in all of Mystara, de novo in 1011, but that is insufficient to satisfy you. Well, I have no counter-argument in that case. > > but you do bring about an interesting point to ponder. if there are so many > troops on hw alphatia then just imagine the potential number of troops that > were stranded on the outside world. > I think we've seen most of the survivors (worn down by the war, the divisions are significantly smaller than the "fresh" divisions in Metropolitan Alphatia 1011). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 21:22:24 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Timeline junk >Caius Julius Caesar Augustus aka "Caligula" ("little boots", a nickname he >was given by legionaries when he was a child & his papa took him on >campaign. C.F. "Little general") started out ok, but seems to have gone mad >(meglomania?) at some point, making his Horse Consul, massacreing his >enemies, and eventually getting himself overthrown for being an overbearing >boor & general disgrace to the Purple. :) Just to say, I'm a chemist, not a physicist, and this one came up at uni. Apparently (and this is very tongue in cheek) the Romans drank mulled (ie heated) wine from pewter goblets. Now pewter has lead in it, and this reacts with the wine to form lead acetate, which is soluble (so you drink it!). Now, lead acetate tastes sweet - so thats why they liked mulled wine! Sadly, it also has lead in it, and lead poisoning affects the brain rather adversely... So perhaps Caligula just overdosed on the booze one night, and had a nice, braindamaging hangover the next day... Cheerz ROB (BTW - hey James Ruhland - how much time do you spend each day writing emails? Because I was somewhat surprised when it seemed that 95% of my unusually large number of daily posts turned out to be yours. Not that I mind - good stuff - but I was curious :) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 21:14:16 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Greatness and Thyatian Withering This isn't intended as a flaming, so dont take it that way. Take a chill pill in advance. (people who have taken that chill pill may read on...) I would have thought that the Americans on this list would have preferred Thyatis over Alphatia. After all, Alphatia (originally) was the evil, corrupt colonial empire that had control of the entire world (practically). Then, along came Zendrolion the Great who sent the Alphies packing. And also liberated a couple of other areas, or left them grow on their own (like, most of the KW - Darokin, Glantri, Traladara - well, until recent history anyway) while shielding from the evil Alphatians to the East. Instead everyone seems to love Alphatia - the valiant fight of the Thyatians has been forgotten (pity, because I think that whole concept is cool. I may get a chronomancer involved IMC and take the posse back to the crowning of the First Emperor). Of course, Alphatia has been sanitised somewhat (no colonies anymore, one happy confederation - which, to be honest, i find a little hard to believe - im thinking oppressed Jennites here - but perhaps I'm being unfair, because that little chapter has yet to be written). You would have thought that after WotI (where Thyatis fulfilled their role as Shield of the KW, protecting poor little Glantri against the mighty imperialist Alphatians, indeed putting the survival of their entire Empire on the line) and the forced removal of four fifths of the Alphatian population to the HW (if you check out the PWAs I dont think that 4/5 fraction is actually too far adrift), leaving the rest of the Empire mainly colonies or "almost" colonies of not exactly 100% loyalty in the first place Alphatia would be a little "dead" and Thyatis would have the support of the entire planet. But what actually happen is Thothia holds up the entire Thyatian empire (possible - but why did the Thyatians take such risks to capture a worthless desert? And, though I hate to bring this up because as everyone knows i dislike this part, but where were the 250 mages with wish on tap?). And after wiping the floor with the sole remaining world power, Thothia meekly joins the NACE. Who knows? Maybe Aketheti is back in power after Talons of Night, and maybe she is in fact running the whole NACE from well behind the scenes. Maybe even now shapechanging aranea are silently repopulating whats left of Alphatia undetectably (Invasion of the Body Snatchers!).... The world will never know... :) Have a fire extinguisher in case of potential flames... Cheerz ROB (incidentally the point of this post is to divine the intentions of Alphatia fans, and ask the eternal question - Why?) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 17:27:25 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wishes - it has started... On Tue, 7 Jul 1998, Rob wrote: > BTW - I dont like 10th level spells either. There is no need for them. You > have Wish. Wish can do anything the DM allows. You need more??? Well, That's the Rub. What the DM allows. Plus, Wish isn't exactly a common spell on Mystara. IMC, There are VERY few people who have the spell Wish, and they guard it with their lives, even to the point of casting it from the spellbook (and erasing it) to prevent it from being learned. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 17:27:25 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wishes - it has started... On Tue, 7 Jul 1998, Rob wrote: > BTW - I dont like 10th level spells either. There is no need for them. You > have Wish. Wish can do anything the DM allows. You need more??? Well, That's the Rub. What the DM allows. Plus, Wish isn't exactly a common spell on Mystara. IMC, There are VERY few people who have the spell Wish, and they guard it with their lives, even to the point of casting it from the spellbook (and erasing it) to prevent it from being learned. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 17:29:45 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic On Tue, 7 Jul 1998, Nicholas Hudson wrote: > character class: s/he is going to be fighting demons and ghosts; s/he > won't believe what's going on, but is still able to function, even with > all of the paranormal activity. Besides, their powers actually prevent a I find it hard to beleive that the character will still beleive it's "all a dream" when visiting Rifts. "Ley Lines? It's all mirrors. Big Mirrors, though.." Max IV - Promising to stay on topic. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 16:37:14 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Greatness and Thyatian Withering > > Instead everyone seems to love Alphatia - the valiant fight of the Thyatians > has been forgotten (pity, because I think that whole concept is cool. I may > get a chronomancer involved IMC and take the posse back to the crowning of > the First Emperor). Of course, Alphatia has been sanitised somewhat (no > colonies anymore, one happy confederation - which, to be honest, i find a > little hard to believe - im thinking oppressed Jennites here - but perhaps > I'm being unfair, because that little chapter has yet to be written). > Well, Thyatis is (er, "was" IMC) a slave based empire. . .but SO IS ALPHATIA, which also seems to have been totally forgotten/written out of history (not just in the Online Almanac, but in the "canon" PWAs as well. . . .) > Alphatia would be a little "dead" and Thyatis would have the support of the > entire planet. > Ahh, but you are expecting gratitude (now, before people say "well, Alphatia was fighting in a good cause, because the NOS is vile, draining the planet of magic" I agree with you, but the MORTAL inhabitants of Mystara DO NOT KNOW THAT. All they know is Alphatia tried to impose it's imperialistic will on a smaller nation, and Thyatis stood up for Glantri, and took by far the heaviest beating.) > But what actually happen is Thothia holds up the entire Thyatian empire > (possible - but why did the Thyatians take such risks to capture a worthless > desert? And, though I hate to bring this up because as everyone knows i > dislike this part, but where were the 250 mages with wish on tap?). And > after wiping the floor with the sole remaining world power, Thothia meekly > joins the NACE. > That whole matter is disgusting rubbish, and I avert my eyes from the "NACE". It does not exist. > Who knows? Maybe Aketheti is back in power after Talons of Night, and maybe > she is in fact running the whole NACE from well behind the scenes. Maybe > even now shapechanging aranea are silently repopulating whats left of > Alphatia undetectably (Invasion of the Body Snatchers!).... The world will > never know... > THAT at least would make for interesting campaign play. IMO, that's what Almanac stuff is good for (which is why the Glantri stuff in the PWAs is far and away the best stuff: nothing firmly "resolved", but an ominous set up, perfect for game play. . .) That's why I thought Zandor should have been kept around, too (even if a psychopath, he *did* make a good villian: let *players* work to put things right). But this has possibilities. [On a totally different topic, I just wish to say: that's no way to decide a match. Something has to be better than penalty kick shootouts.] *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 17:58:55 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Timeline junk In a message dated 98-07-06 19:16:42 EDT, jruhlconob@sprynet.com writes: << > > as do the heldannic knights. and the master od hule too for that matter. > Thouse are hardly the equivilent of Alphatian "Men of War". Small aerial skiffs that the Alphatian Men of War can blow apart. . . .>> true about the master's vessels. but not in regards to the heldannic warbirds. seems to me that most accounts of clashes between the knights and alphatian skyships have the knights having the edge. <<> though his air fleet is small. thyatis has the retebius air fleet and knights > of the air. > Not in the PWAs. . . .>> but the pwas have a greatly diminished alphatian air fleet. most skyships are in floating ar. and in pwa, king xanthus of blackrock made quite a stir with his trump card man-o-war. the thyatian retebius air fleet has been portrayed as the bane of the alphatian skyships. dawn of the emperors says they caused much damage to the alphatian flying boats. so much damage that several renegade thyatian knights of the air were bribed to come to floating ar to teach the alphatians raf tactics. > glantri has their fireflies and most recently (net almanac ac1015) > their own skyships and derigibles. > Except for fireflies (which have numerous limitations compaired to the Alphatian flying ships), they are not canonical, and hardly worth worrying about (constantly crashing from what little I've read so far.>> firefies=dragonflies (my bad) are not exactly pushovers. the net almanac skyships are something i argued against. thankfully my, as well as others arguements, gave reason for them crashing. i also voiced a number of opinions on the hot air baloons. given their nature i see them as little more than a weapon against the ethie. for some reasons the images of ww1 biplanes straffing lookout baloons comes to mind. > the shadow elves have skin wings. the hw > milenians have their griffon riders. the hw nithians have their flying barges. > Again, all of limited utility compaired to the Alphatian variety.>> limited? pretty ideal for each respective nation. the shadow elf skin wings gave the rockhome dwarves fits. the shattenalffen skinwings gave the azcan troops fits. no reference to nithian barges but their role seems to focus on troop transport. each has its own nich and that they persist indicates a valid use. > hw shattenalfen have skinwings. so alphatia is not the only nation with an > aerial capability. added to that is their own skyship fleet was depleted due > to the fires during wrath of the immortals. > I actually thought that was a raw deal, but I guess the designers had to figure out a way of eliminating the Alphatian Men of War (c.f "Champions of Mystara": I may be misnaming them since I haven't the patience to dig for the data right now).>> yep...i'll agree with ya there. felt it was a cheap way to remove the skyships from the war. you'd think the skyships would have been better protected. i mean, fire is the bane of any ship. protection from fire enchantments seem appropriate to me. > <> > > but always kept in check by the thyatian stalemate. alphatian borders were > pretty stagnant. > "Stagnant" at larger than the Known World. In fact, numerous sub-areas of Alphatia are by themselves larger than the Known World. I will list them separately: Alphatia (Metropolitan) Bellissaria Norwold Esterhold Isle of Dawn (Alph. region).>> i agree about the size issue. but given the might of alphatia. you may find this hard to beleive but i am a big proponent of alphatia. most of the mml members will attest to that. but still the world itself is a large area. alphatians tend to focus on themselves. those venturing out do so to get a better position back within the empire. > > i agree here. however emphasis was placed on the alphatian attitude and lack > of concern for the commoners and people of norwold. and with a member of the > imperial family in need. but yes all participating nations were presented with > their good and bad sides. > Which was one of the reasons I loved gaming up there, even though the idea of my characters living in the cold "Great White North" aesthetically did not appeal to me. Heh, Erical was just like Stefan: completely worthless. Which was a *GOOD* thing because it meant the PCs were the heros. 8-)>> exactly. ericall was a putz. but he was a putz who just happened to be the son of the empress. imo his personna was very symbolic of alphatia's own weaknesses and potential. but this provided a deluge of adventuring possibilities for the PCs. > > <> > > yes...you wage a war to preserve the worlds magic. you defeat your age old foe > thyatis and remove them from the melee (btw with less damage than expected). > then with overall victory in sight, your imperial capital is destroyed and the > continent sunk. your outer world holdings are partly overrun by thyatians. and > to add insult to injury the world has this perception that alphatia was the > cause of the war. and let us not forget the cause of the war, the radiance, is > still afoot. then there is the loss of the surface imperial family. the loss > of family. each stranded alphatian had to have friends and family back on > alphatia. > They get a completely rebuilt nation, floating invulnerably above the Hollow World, the Thothians gain back everything that is lost to the Thyatians, and hand it over to the NACE, Zandor & Broderic put the outter world "remnants" (hardly feeble scraps) together, then Zandor is disapeared by the game designers (eliminating a potentially fun villian), turning everything over to "mom" to run by remote from the HW. A brand new free army is gifted to you, 78,000 strong, which is more powerful than any potential enemy (admittedly, getting it to a battlefield is difficult, except for the IAG, which is "only" less than 6,000 strong, and also no enemy can get to you, thus your invulnerability.) You get a new Imperial Capital. If you've suffered losses, they pale in significance to what is gained (dominion over all of Mystara, HW & OW), and Alphatia is *still* far and away the most powerful nation in the entire AD&D/D&D multiverse (even more potent, IMO, than nations that rule several crystal spheres).>> i wish i could share your optimistic veiw of post wrath alphatia (hw and surface world). i just do not see the situation as being that good. not to say the alphatians face extinction. no the alphatians will rebuild, maybe surpassing their former strength. but it will take time. > > forgot the slave revolts and bread riots. not to mention the reverses seen in > the ac1015 net almanac. the way i see it thyatis can not get much worse. > My point exactly, as far as canon goes (and I didn't forget that junk, I just didn't feel the specific need to mention it, since my point was/is made without the need of doing so). And I ignore the Continuator stuff as if it doesn't exist. I refuse to acnowledge its existance officially (while constantly refering to it obliquely).>> i doubt thyatis will ever die. the thyatis crowd won't allow it. it may change in composition somewhat, but it won't die. since canon thyatis is still in the throes of the pwas, it cannot get any worse. however, there are hints at things to come. thyatian holdings seeking more independance. > anything eusebius does should make things better. > Except that it was obvious, at least to me anyhow, that they eventually planned on turning him into Caligula (various hints in the materiel, if you know your history, indicate this).>> really? i never saw him in that light. sure he had enough of his father in him to be a cunning, heavy handed sort. but he had his mother's blood as well as military discipline. imo eusebius will present himself as a noble even gallant figure while being very much a vestige of his father behind the scenes. > just look at thyatis and how > it recovered after the previous alphatian invasions. each invasion saw a > change with its emperor who did much to rebuild the empire. btw- at least > thyatis still has its government intact. whereas the surface alphatians are > dispersed and without a centraloized government like the old imperium. > << At the end of the (published/canon) PWAs they were agreeing to follow "mom", and confederate. Thus the NACE, the figment of someone's feavered imagination.>> the representative council was mentioned in pwa3. so the basis for the NACE was there. given mom's proximity feasible rule was/is out of the question. the only true vestige of the alphatian imperium is in hw. the oaths of fealty from the surface remnants are little more than nostalgia. given the choice between a council sworn to eriadna or a "emperor" such as zandor, i think i'd go for the former. << IMO, it would actually be more fun if they *were* dispursed and without a centralized government, as far as campaign play. Thyatis (as you've described) has enough problems of it's own and IMO could never conquer Bellisaria & the other Alphatian former colonies; thus it makes it more intriguing, game-play wise, to have them separate, perhaps scheming, and thus providing adventure oportunities. But others disagree, and I guess a NACE, or something like it, is inevitable if/when TSR revives Mystara in their own publication plans.>> well as a council the opportunities still exist. with the imperial court so far away, individual rulers will plot more now than before. this of course opens opportunities for PCs. > > i would not say the alphatians dominate either world yet. both have the > potential. > They are clearly on the way, and that was clearly the intention. It was bad enough giving them an entirely rebuilt army in one year (1010-1011), even TSR couldn't go so far as to entirely rebuild their dominance on the OW by 1012. They weren't that grotesque. Not quite. . . .but close.>> yes they definitely have the potential. ow and hw alphatia are still adjusting and stabilizing. imo it will be somewhere around ay2020 before thay are solidly on their feet again. like i said, i think you have a very optimistic view of post wrath alphatia. as a fan of alphatia i wish i shared that view. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 16:38:45 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Timeline junk > > (BTW - hey James Ruhland - how much time do you spend each day writing > emails? Because I was somewhat surprised when it seemed that 95% of my > unusually large number of daily posts turned out to be yours. Not that I > mind - good stuff - but I was curious :) > (clearly way too much. In do time I'll do less mad raving, though.) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 18:20:04 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatian Military In a message dated 98-07-07 00:45:55 EDT, you write: << For thouse of you who may (or may not) be interested, I used several sources to inspire my "Thyatian Military" variant. But probably the most accessable/available to gamers would be the Osprey "Men at Arms Series", #89, "Byzantine Armies 886-1118", which is often available in game stores. There are a whole bunch of other good sources, but most of them are rather more academic type books, and this one has nice color plates for the fans of Karameikos to look at ("oooh, pictures") >> the osprey books are very nice and extremely helpful. all manner of troop types and time periods are addressed. the cost for each is reasonable so that is an added boon. most of my osprey books are centered on ww2 subjects. schiffer publishing is also stepping into the arena with a book titled Imperial Rome at War. this book focuses more on armour and weapon developement than anything. it does have some basic outline info on history, deployment, tactics, etc. lots of color plates. cool diagram of a roman fort. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #479 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, July 7 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 480 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Re: [MYSTARA] - Timeline junk Re: [MYSTARA] - Wishes - it has started... Re: [MYSTARA] - West End Games goes bankrupt Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis, Mystara, and the tone of the World Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Re: [MYSTARA] - Wishes - it has started... Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Greatness and Thyatian Withering Re: [MYSTARA] - Timeline junk Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic/The Chronicles of the Unbeliever Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic/The Chronicles of the Unbeliever Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic/The Chronicles of the Unbeliever Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic/The Chronicles of the Unbeliever [MYSTARA] - Preserving Alphatia's Way of Life. Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic/The Chronicles of the Unbeliever Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos Re: [MYSTARA] - For all you Karamekian anti-fans (and fans, too) Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic/The Chronicles of the Unbeliever ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 15:29:59 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic > >I find it hard to beleive that the character will still beleive it's "all >a dream" when visiting Rifts. > >"Ley Lines? It's all mirrors. Big Mirrors, though.." Have you ever read the Chronicles of Thomas the Unbeliever? It's a fantasy series about Thomas who gets drawn into a fantasy world. He gains special powers, and his ordinary household items, like keys, become powerful magic items. He doesn't believe what has happen, like it's some sort of hallucination or dream. He still performs great deeds because he is a good person, even if this "only" going on inside his head. Anyway, the Rifts Conversion Book clearly says you can be a negapychic. And don't forget the gigantic smoke machines, too. :) Sorry, the point I'm trying to make is that human will can be almost indominatable, especially when someone doesn't want to believe something (call the Flat Earth Society if you don't believe me). I think the negapsychic is a great idea, and potentially a powerful character in Mystara. S/he would be rather similar to a gremlin PC: wouldn't be able to use any magic items, but no one could use one against them. This would be a good class if you have one of those people who talks through movies, saying "That couldn't happen!":) The gigantic brown dragon lifts its serpentine head, steam boiling off its nostrils. Arching back, the dull cheeks fill for a moment before an infernal blast slices out of the gaping jaw, hurtling towards a party now resigned to a few deaths. All have run for what scanty cover they could find save one. With a perpexled look on his face and a well-scratched chin, Prof. Dunmore coughs slightly. "Get of the way, you addle-brained son of an orc!" screams the burly Northman, Volung. Realizing that Dunmore would be the death of him yet, he marshalled his courage and dove to push Dunmore out of the way. While strong, Volung was also vain, and refused to accept his astigmatism. Landing in a heap at Dunmore's feet, Volung started to weep. The stream of fire, only seconds before like the Sun itself, dissolves into a slight heat front only inches in front of the Professor. Panic, heterofore an alien emotion, flashes through the dragon. "Now now now, that's just plain wrong. You clearly violated Newton's Third Law, as well as the first two laws of thermodynamics. Let's go over this in detail. Now, let x equal the momentum of the fire as it leaves your befanged mouth..." Nicholas Hudson I don't believe you exist,Max ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 17:24:37 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Timeline junk Everything old <*cheers go up from the peanut gallery*> > > i wish i could share your optimistic veiw of post wrath alphatia (hw and > surface world). i just do not see the situation as being that good. not to say > the alphatians face extinction. no the alphatians will rebuild, maybe > surpassing their former strength. but it will take time. > See, that's why I'm "optimistic" for Alphatia (plus, you had everyone at TSR working over time to make sure that the Alphatians would rebuild, and you have everyone who works on the Net Almanac now working overtime towards the same goal). IMO, my favorite nation was, meanwhile, headed towards the scrapheap of history. Thus I have difficulty taking the lamentations of Alphatophiles too seriously. Your Empire is somewhat less powerful than before, but still far and away the most potent force in the known Multiverse (both AD&D & D&D. Perhaps the only thing close in *any* fantasy setting is Thera/Earthdawn). > > i doubt thyatis will ever die. the thyatis crowd won't allow it. it may change > in composition somewhat, but it won't die. since canon thyatis is still in the > throes of the pwas, it cannot get any worse. however, there are hints at > things to come. thyatian holdings seeking more independance. > "It can't get any worse" except that you describe one way that it will (disolution of the central government in favor of lots of weak semi-independant states, which is a recipe for disaster). As I said, things can get worse, IRL they did get worse, but I feel no need to relive that. If you want to visit disaster on someone, why not Alphatia? Put that way, it becomes a little more apparent why not, eh? No one likes to see a place they like nuked repetedly month after month, year after year. At least Alphatia *is* rebuilding, while everything I see indicates that the intention is for things to continue to decline for Thyatis. Anyhow, getting up and whining about that isn't what the mailing list is for, so I suppose I ought to stop: it isn't constructive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 15:34:02 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wishes - it has started... >BTW - I dont like 10th level spells either. There is no need for them. You >have Wish. Wish can do anything the DM allows. You need more??? I have a copy of Best of Dragon vol.1 that contains the level 10 spell, "Armageddon". It delievers a blast of pure energy inflicting 10 to the 21st power points of damage, destroying the world. No savings throw. Game Over Now, can you do that with a wish? :) Nicholas Hudson Who has just gotten a new spell to place under the "A" section ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 18:54:03 EDT From: RLaRue@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - West End Games goes bankrupt In a message dated 98-07-07 03:51:41 EDT, you write: << Actually, that one is gone too, already (Imperium Games). Steve Jackson Games (GURPS) has the Traveller licens now, if I'm not mistaken. >> Not exactly. Steve Jackson Games does indeed have a license to produce a GURPS Traveller and line of supporting material, but it is an alternate Traveller universe. It diverges from the "official" Imperium Games timeline before the assassination of Emperor Strephon (i.e. the beginning of GDW's MegaTraveller and beyond). Unfortunately, Imperium Games has not released a new product in months, and many of the ones they planned on releasing are listed as "Unavailable Indefinitely". I'm afraid IG may be in trouble also. Try these links to get more info… http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/Traveller http://www.imperiumgames.com/main.html Rick *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 17:54:38 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis, Mystara, and the tone of the World > > Oh I disagree. I think there was absolute poetry in Thincol's demise. All his > life he had been defined by his enemy. > > I think it is a great dramatic ending...personally... > *EXTENSIVE QUOTE ALERT*: this post will contain long quotes. Hmmmn. . .I don't abhore the curse itself, per se (kind of symbolic: Thincol spends his strength protecting the known world from ruthless agression, is weakened, cursed and betrayed by his ungrateful friends, and left to die, abandoned.) The death itself was. . .unimaginative ("products of your imagination", right). There is really only one "appropriate" way for someone like Thincol to die. The below regards the final days of Michael IV the Paphlagonian (Emperor of the Romans, 1034-41). Somewhat out of context, but imagine Thincol in his place and you'll see how befitting it is: "By the time the news of the disaster [Say, something in Isle of Dawn?] reached Constantinople [Thyatis], it was clear that the Emperor was dying. No longer capable of dealing with affairs of stat, he spent his days in ever more desperate attempts to appease the divine anger which had reduced him, while still in his twenties [ok, Potions of Longevity], to a hideously bloated travesty of what he had been only a few years before when his beauty had won him the heart of an Empress. Messengers were sent to every corner of the Empire with orders to pay two pieces of gold to every parish priest and one to every monk in return for their prayers for his recovery. . . . "At this point an astonishing thing pappened. The Emperor Michael, speaking from his palace. . .suddenly anounced his intention of heading his army in person against the enemy. He was by now semi-paralysed, his. . .slightest movement was an agony. In vain dod thouse around him. . .implore him to renounce the idea; he refused to listen. It was bad enough, he pointed out, that his reign had seen no increase in the imperial dominions; he was at least determined that it should not witness any dimunition. As Psellus puts it: 'His first battle--in which he was victorious--was against members of his own intimate circle, becore he ever came to grips with the barbarians; and the first trophy of the war was set up to his triumph over his own kinsmen and his associates--and himself. Bodily weakness was more than compensated for by strength of purpose. . .' "But this, Psellus makes clear, was not an empty gesture. There were no vain heroics, nor any question of a mortally sick man riding out in search of a glorious death on the battlefield [Thyatian efficiency & pragmatism]. The campaign was meticulously planned, and its specific charges carefully chosen, before the dying Basileus ["Emperor"] led his army. . .to war. . . [battle won] "And so, early in 1041 [1011 or 12?], Michael returned to his capital in triumph, followed by his army and a host of captives. . .Psellus, who was tere, records the scene: 'the entire population poured out of their houses to greet their Emperor. I myself saw him on this occasion, looking as if he were attending a funeral and swaying on his horse. The fingers that gripped his bridle were like thouse of a giant, for each of them was as thick as a man's arm--such were the effects of the disease from which he suffered. His face, too, preserved not a trace of its former beauty.' "It was his last public appearance. As the year went on his condition grew steadily worse. . . "Of all thouse who occupied the Byzantine throne, few had risen from more lowly origins; few had attained power by more questionable methods; none, certainly, suffered a more agonizing end. And yer, had he lived, Michael might have proved a great Emperor [he reigned only 6+ years, IMO Thincol *did* prove a great Emperor, if not so great a person*]. He might even have reversed the slow process of disintegration which had begone with the death of Basil II in 1025. He possessed wisdom, vision, and--as he showed in that last astonishing Bulgarian [Thothian?] expedition--almost super-human courage. He was a truely tragic figure; and, in the reigns that followed, there would be many who desperately regretted his loss." --Byzantium, The Apogee, pp. 286-290. THAT would have been a fitting end. Surely in a PWA they could not have described it at length, but something like that, IMO, would have been the only proper way for Thincol to die. *His job was to be a great Emperor, btw, not a great man. IMO, Stefan might be a great man, but IMO, he's more of a lucky ruller than a great one: he's feckless, and his problems must be handled for him. If, as some have claimed, Traldara is on the virge of a "New Golden Age" it is more in spite of, than because of, Stefan. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 19:06:22 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic On Tue, 7 Jul 1998, Nicholas Hudson wrote: > Nicholas Hudson > I don't believe you exist,Max Ouch. I don't suppose a wish spell could cure that one. Anyhoo, I agree with your theory, it's very valid. But having a person like that in the D&D universe would be a bit odd. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 16:10:25 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wishes - it has started... >>BTW - I dont like 10th level spells either. There is no need for them. >You >>have Wish. Wish can do anything the DM allows. You need more??? > I have a copy of Best of Dragon vol.1 that contains the level 10 >spell, "Armageddon". It delievers a blast of pure energy inflicting 10 >to the 21st power points of damage, destroying the world. No savings >throw. Game Over > Now, can you do that with a wish? :) > Nicholas Hudson > Who has just gotten a new spell to place under the "A" section No but my 7th level Alter Reality spell says that you forgot to memorize that spell. Much more useful, less twistable, and attainable at a lower level. BTW: I couldn't find Armageddon in the Best of Dragon Vol. 1, where is it? Later. Jesse. vanquer@softhome.net ICQ. 8004143 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 19:13:53 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Greatness and Thyatian Withering In a message dated 98-07-07 17:32:44 EDT, rmunch@easynet.co.uk writes: << I would have thought that the Americans on this list would have preferred Thyatis over Alphatia. After all, Alphatia (originally) was the evil, corrupt colonial empire that had control of the entire world (practically). Then, along came Zendrolion the Great who sent the Alphies packing. And also liberated a couple of other areas, or left them grow on their own (like, most of the KW - Darokin, Glantri, Traladara - well, until recent history anyway) while shielding from the evil Alphatians to the East.>> the funny thing is that i can remember when the pro alphatian contingent was pretty small. most seemed transfixed on glantri, thyatis, and karameikos. i am not sure why we Americans would prefer thyatis. or preferred alphatia for that matter. if you think about it thyatis and alphatia are two sides of the same coin. i chose alphatia for its adventuring opportunities and the PC personalities alphatian society can produce. <> yes after throwing out the alphatians (who invaded in retribution to attacks on alphatian shipping) the thyatians commenced to conquer and oppress other folk themselves. as for jennites i have to add that thyatis has equal examples of ill done deeds. like i said up above, they are two sides of the same coin. <> yes woti, a war in which the alphatians were fighting to save mystaran magic. a war initiated when rad foresook immortal ruling on the matter. but shield of the kw? more like an opportunist. thyatis had used the shield line to bolster its own power. now when it was certain that the alphatians were a coming, then they had to act. that the alphatian military rout went straight through their holdings did not dissuade them much either. with glantri and the knights as allies then they thought they had a chance. <> thothia was a demonstration that thyatis was badly weakened, not only by war but also by its attempts to seize ground after the sinking. i would guess the 250 mages of sclaras were probably enthralled with their own research. dote says the protectorate is officially thyatian lands but rarely answer to the empire. you could also say that their appearance on the battle field would probably give cause for an appearance of alphatia's 1000 mages. << Who knows? Maybe Aketheti is back in power after Talons of Night, and maybe she is in fact running the whole NACE from well behind the scenes. Maybe even now shapechanging aranea are silently repopulating whats left of Alphatia undetectably (Invasion of the Body Snatchers!).... The world will never know... >> nah....too many PCs killed her off in that adventure. plus she was alphaks pawn and i suspect he is off making stories to cover his own tail. "asteroid? attack on the guests on innocenti? nah...must of been some other raging fiend. i was cavorting through the lower planes" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 19:16:13 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Timeline junk James Ruhland said: >See, that's why I'm "optimistic" for Alphatia (plus, you had everyone at >TSR working over time to make sure that the Alphatians would rebuild, and >you have everyone who works on the Net Almanac now working overtime towards >the same goal). Not exactly. I'm with the Net Almanac, and even though my area is Davania, I am a vocal supporter of Thyatis for the group (as they can attest). While I like Alphatia, I like Thyatis even more. > IMO, my favorite nation was, meanwhile, headed towards the scrapheap of >history. Thus I have difficulty taking the lamentations of Alphatophiles >too seriously. Your Empire is somewhat less powerful than before, but still >far and away the most potent force in the known Multiverse (both AD&D & >D&D. Perhaps the only thing close in *any* fantasy setting is >Thera/Earthdawn). >> True, Alphatia is very powerful, but Thyatis could see a renaissance, too. >"It can't get any worse" except that you describe one way that it will >(disolution of the central government in favor of lots of weak >semi-independant states, which is a recipe for disaster). Personally I wouldn't want this to happen - I prefer a revitalized, centralized Thyatian Empire, forging ahead under the bold, yet diplomatic rule of Eusebius. First thing on the agenda - bring Ochalea and the Pearl Islands back into the fold :-). > Put that way, it becomes a little more apparent why not, eh? >No one likes to see a place they like nuked repetedly month after month, >year after year. At least Alphatia *is* rebuilding, while everything I see >indicates that the intention is for things to continue to decline for >Thyatis. I can see where you're coming from, but I'd ask you to wait and see. Things haven't been resolved yet - anything can happen. That's all I can say for now. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 20:04:23 -0400 From: Chris Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic/The Chronicles of the Unbeliever Nicholas Hudson wrote: > > > >I find it hard to beleive that the character will still beleive it's > "all > >a dream" when visiting Rifts. > > > >"Ley Lines? It's all mirrors. Big Mirrors, though.." > > Have you ever read the Chronicles of Thomas the Unbeliever? It's a > fantasy series about Thomas who gets drawn into a fantasy world. He > gains special powers, and his ordinary household items, like keys, > become powerful magic items. He doesn't believe what has happen, like > it's some sort of hallucination or dream. He still performs great deeds > because he is a good person, even if this "only" going on inside his > head. Thomas was a leper who couldn't/would't believe what he was seeing was real because he was afraid of losing touch with reality and having his disease run rampant. The only magical thing he personally had was his wedding ring, made of white-gold. In this new land he found himself in white-gold didnt exist as the creator had used white-gold to make the arch of time which encompassed all creation. The times when Thomas used magic were usually blasts of white fire, and occassionally his ring would trigger magical items in the Land. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 18:59:04 -0700 From: Joseph Elric Smith Servant to Arioch Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic/The Chronicles of the Unbeliever Oh a good person, commits rape, becasue after all it is only in his mind?I guess I must of read a different set of books Ken > He still performs great deeds > > because he is a good person, even if this "only" going on inside his > > head. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 17:59:18 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic/The Chronicles of the Unbeliever >Oh a good person, commits rape, becasue after all it is only in his mind?I guess >I must of read a different set of books >Ken >> He still performs great deeds >> > because he is a good person, even if this "only" going on inside his >> > head. Alright, here's my take on this situation... A.He had been impotent for so long that the sudden vitality and thought that it was only a dream caused him to do something that he'd probably have been repulsed at in the "real world". B.The events on Counter-Earth were not "just inside his head". Certain clues were there (In *every* book IIRC) that it wasn't just a dream. Just my thoughts on it. Later. Jesse. vanquer@softhome.net ICQ. 8004143 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 20:08:45 -0700 From: Joseph Elric Smith Servant to Arioch Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic/The Chronicles of the Unbeliever Well I agree that the events didn't just happen in his head, but really happened. What i question is how we can say he was good, when he was a rapist basterd who unwillingly was dragged kicking and screaming to his destiny.Ken > Alright, here's my take on this situation... > A.He had been impotent for so long that the sudden vitality and thought that > it was only a dream caused him to do something that he'd probably have been > repulsed at in the "real world". > B.The events on Counter-Earth were not "just inside his head". Certain clues > were there (In *every* book IIRC) that it wasn't just a dream. > > Just my thoughts on it. > > Later. > > Jesse. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 20:23:09 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Preserving Alphatia's Way of Life. > > No golems? No wishes? No magic-users/clerics with less > than INT/WIS of 16? > "If Wishes were horses, then beggars would ride". I still don't think they need Wishes. However, a solution to the INT/WIS of 16 thing has been stareing us in the face, but I just didn't see it. Dispense with the Idea that someone is ". . .born with the trait of magic use," and assume that anyone smart or wise enough is able to do so (as has been argued already). This would mean that in the future roughly 10% of the populace would be able to use either Clerical or Magical spells. Yes, this is lower than before (but see below). However, all the folks who are currently spellcasters remain spellcasters ("grandfathered in"), and the most powerful can live almost as long as they want. This dimunition in the percentage of thouse able to use magic would just continue a long trendline: "Once upon a time, 99 in 100 Alphatians were magical. . .After the Alphatians made Landfall. . .the children they bore were only about 50% magical. . .Today, the proportion is even worse. . .It is estimated today that only one Alphatian in five is born with the trait of magic use." (Player's Guide to Alphatia, pp.13-14). I.E. they go from nearly 100%, to 50%, to 20%, and finally to 10% (after a few generations in the Hollow World), where things "level off". This is still a high proportion. The Alphatian aristocracy/nobility are the spellcasters, and you don't need a "nobility" larger than this to maintain a certain "way of life" (the other 90% being the wogs & slaves, as 80% of the populace is now). N.B.: also, at least from this, there was an assumption, again DK if it was meant to be true or not, that the trait of magic use was heritable ("Magic users live longer and have fewer children than thouse who have no magic." is given as a reason for the decline in the % of magically-capable individuals). We just remove that, allow anyone with the requisite score to wield magic, and move on. And what are we left with? In fact, a fairly "meritocratic" society: the smartest and wisest form the nobility automatically. Now, this doesn't guarantee that they'll provide good leadership, but IMO better to have smart, thoughtful folks in charge than morons. IMO, this is a fine solution for fans of Alphatia. No longer would the social order be a semi-hereditary caste system where the dissolute govern, but a meritocracy, thus giving you bragging rights. Such a society might start, eventually (a millenium from now?) to reflect the best aspects of Zhodani society (from Traveller). Smart/wise slaves will rise to the nobility, and they may argue against the practice (and, since now the "trait" of magic isn't heritable, but determined by stats--which are randomly generated in D&D + AD&D, even if IRL Intelligence is to *some* significant degree heritable). Anyhow, more on the social affects of such a change at a later point. Unless someone wants to argue that the SoP will insure that Alphatia remains a slave-and-wog based society forever. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 18:55:38 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic/The Chronicles of the Unbeliever >Well I agree that the events didn't just happen in his head, but really >happened. What i question is how we can say he was good, when he was a >rapist basterd who unwillingly was dragged kicking and screaming to his >destiny.Ken I wasn't really going to comment on the good/evil aspect of it, but since this appears to be an invitation... I didn't think that he was particularly good or evil. I wouldn't have finished the books at all if they had been based predominently on him. To me he was a weak-bodied, weak-minded, ass that didn't even deserve to be in such a world- well, okay he deserved to be in the second trilogy ;-) IMO, the world, magic, and events made those books IMMORTAL though. He gave a refreshing view of basically two totally foreign worlds and many creatures that were definitely new. I've often thought about incorporating Ur-Viles, Waynhim, Stonehelvennin, Woodhelvennin, Rohirri, Haruchai, Stone Giants, and the Blood Magic into my campaigns on Mystara. Actually, the Ranyhyn have become legends IMC, and I had a player take the OA and play a Bloodguard in one of my campaigns. How about the Desecration? Before I realized anything about Blackmoor being on Mystara (Long story), I had the Sind Desert as the place that Kevin had enacted the spell in his battle with Lord Foul (The Master of Hule at that time in my gaming career). Later. Jesse. vanquer@softhome.net ICQ. 8004143 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 21:52:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos At 07:48 PM 7/7/98 +0300, you wrote: >>are positively enlightened. For example, the Open Court, which is a right >>of EVERY Karamekian, whether they are Traladaran or Thyatian. >> >Yeah, and the next day any Traladaran speaks against Thyatians in it, he's >going to be beaten senseless by Thyatian bullies. > That's not King Stefan's fault, is it? That prejudice in Karamekian society is due to Thyatian racial superiority complex. King Stefan doesn't control the minds of his subjects, like some rulers seem to do... >At least Glantri doesn't pretend to be something that it isn't. > Glantri doesn't know what the hell it is, except a haven for every evil scumball on the face of Mystara who is fleeing for his life from Karamekian justice. Seriously, though, Glantri is in serious shambles right now. Their religious intolerance makes the Thyatian/Traladaran conflict seem like nothing. They have a night dragon, a vampire, a lich (maybe), a KOBOLD, a paranoid lunatic, and a werewolf as rulers. Sure, I'd just love to live in Glantri... Oh, BTW, there have been mentions of plans for Karameikos in future almanacs (Somehow I think the Almanac team is going to assassinate King Stefan in the near future). For my story, I have most of it already planned out; I'll work within the almanacs as much as possible, but I don't doubt there will be differences by the time I get Alexius to AC 1016. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 22:02:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - For all you Karamekian anti-fans (and fans, too) At 04:07 PM 7/7/98 EDT, you wrote: >And of course I can censor it and remove all those >anti-Ethengarian tirades pity Sir Alexius constantly >utters. :-) > What? Anti-Ethengarian tirades? Where? Alexius has been to Ethengar a few times, and even made some friends. Moglai Khan even shared some fermented goat's milk with him, and Alexius made his Constitution roll and didn't puke. :-) Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 22:45:41 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic/The Chronicles of the Unbeliever Okay, quickly before someone complains about the non-canon nature of this thread... Btw, if anyone is interested in discussing some of the good books that pop up on this list...I would be interested! At 05:59 PM 7/7/98 -0700, Jesse LaBranche wrote: >>Oh a good person, commits rape, becasue after all it is only in his mind?I >guess >>I must of read a different set of books >>Ken > >>> He still performs great deeds >>> > because he is a good person, even if this "only" going on inside his >>> > head. > > >Alright, here's my take on this situation... >A.He had been impotent for so long that the sudden vitality and thought that >it was only a dream caused him to do something that he'd probably have been >repulsed at in the "real world". I don't buy that one (and as I recall, Thomas discards the idea by the 3rd book). It's a cop out. He has free will and is doing the act almost to deny the existence of the world. But then, that is a cop out as well. What the scene does, is it gives him something to repent in the last book. >B.The events on Counter-Earth were not "just inside his head". Certain clues >were there (In *every* book IIRC) that it wasn't just a dream. I think the point was that he believed it was inside his head. More appropriately, he believed he had to believe or else he would die... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #480 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, July 8 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 481 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic/The Chronicles of the Unbeliever [MYSTARA] - Thincol and Torenal Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic/The Chronicles of the Unbeliever Re: [MYSTARA] - Thincol and Torenal Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Greatness and Thyatian Withering Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Greatness and Thyatian Withering Re: [MYSTARA] - West End Games goes bankrupt Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis, Mystara, and the tone of the World Re: [MYSTARA] - Timeline junk Re: [MYSTARA] - Amen Brother!!!! was (Re: I don't like Karameikos) Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraWriters! Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic/The Chronicles of the Unbeliever Re: [MYSTARA] - Timeline junk Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos Re: [MYSTARA] - Amen Brother!!!! was (Re: I don't like Karameikos) [MYSTARA] - Fw: Message not deliverable [MYSTARA] - Preserving Alphatia's Way of Life. Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos Re: [MYSTARA] - Fw: Message not deliverable Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Greatness and Thyatian Withering Re: [MYSTARA] - Fw: Message not deliverable Re: [MYSTARA] - Preserving Alphatia's Way of Life. Re: [MYSTARA] - Fw: Message not deliverable Re: [MYSTARA] - Preserving Alphatia's Way of Life. Re: [MYSTARA] - Amen Brother!!!! was (Re: I don't like Karameikos) Re: [MYSTARA] - Thincol and Torenal ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 22:46:53 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic/The Chronicles of the Unbeliever At 08:08 PM 7/7/98 -0700, Joseph Elric Smith Servant to Arioch wrote: >Well I agree that the events didn't just happen in his head, but really >happened. What i question is how we can say he was good, when he was a rapist >basterd who unwillingly was dragged kicking and screaming to his destiny.Ken You know, every time I have discussed this book with someone he either loves it or he hates it. The hate is usually based entirely on this one scene. I am not saying you are one of those people either! I am just making an observation... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 22:53:14 -0400 From: Daly Subject: [MYSTARA] - Thincol and Torenal You know, if you want to find someone who had a sucky death, look no further than Torenal. He's the fellow who had not a magical breath in his body, and neither did his children. Therefore he was relegated to the position of wallflower of the court while his children had to stand the taunts of Zandor while growing up. When he was not watching the love of his life with the latest boytoy, he was out practicing for his "destined encounter" with the Emperor of Thyatis. He was certain it would be his blade that would fell the guy... So what happens? Struck down, as an afterthought, by some unknown assassin... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 20:34:01 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic/The Chronicles of the Unbeliever >At 05:59 PM 7/7/98 -0700, Jesse LaBranche wrote: >>Alright, here's my take on this situation... >>A.He had been impotent for so long that the sudden vitality and thought that >>it was only a dream caused him to do something that he'd probably have >>been repulsed at in the "real world". >I don't buy that one (and as I recall, Thomas discards the idea by the 3rd >book). It's a cop out. He has free will and is doing the act almost to >deny the existence of the world. But then, that is a cop out as well. >What the scene does, is it gives him something to repent in the last book. I was taking this from the Author's "descriptions" rather than Covenant's rather poor rationalizations. By the time we get to the 3rd book, he's "matured" enough to accept and acknowledge the mistake, sort of. >>B.The events on Counter-Earth were not "just inside his head". Certain >>clues were there (In *every* book IIRC) that it wasn't just a dream. >I think the point was that he believed it was inside his head. More >appropriately, he believed he had to believe or else he would die... We're fully agreed here. My response was because the person who posted the initial thread was making it sound like it was all in his head when it wasn't. Later. Jesse. vanquer@softhome.net ICQ. 8004143 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 22:31:10 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thincol and Torenal > > You know, if you want to find someone who had a sucky death, look no > further than Torenal. > That's *definately* true (I almost wrote "definately" in all caps, but I decided not to shout). He had a fairly sucky life (being a wog at Alphatia's court), and the way they wrote his death (just a tool to piss off Edriana) was brutaly cruel. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 23:40:41 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Greatness and Thyatian Withering In a message dated 98-07-07 19:47:43 EDT, Alex295@aol.com writes: > i am not sure why we Americans would prefer thyatis. or preferred alphatia > for that matter. if you think about it thyatis and alphatia are two sides of the > same coin. I think that there is one aspect of Thyatis that Americans would find appealing - -- the way that it managed to unite so many disparate races, ethnic groups, and classes into a united nation. That whole scheme fell apart in WotI, but the way Thyatis was depicted in DotE was very appealing in that respect. Any nation where racist fools such as the Hattians were the butt of jokes by everybody else could not have been all bad, after all. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 23:40:48 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Greatness and Thyatian Withering To paraphrase something from "Fiddler on the Roof": A layman of Brun to a friendly priest: "Is there a proper blessing for the empires of Alphatia and Thyatis?" The priest's reply: "May the Immortals bless and keep Alphatia and Thyatis -- far away from us!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 23:40:39 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - West End Games goes bankrupt In a message dated 98-07-07 03:03:10 EDT, Mystaros@aol.com writes: > And taking this to a Mystara note... would anyone be interested in an > adaptation of *my own version* of Blackmoor set shortly before the GRoF, > using Alternity rules? The technology of the era is appropriate, and the Alternity > GM's Guide even has conversion rules for AD&D... Sure -- if you are planning to upload this to your Web site, please get back to us with the URL when it is done. I am certainly curious about this one. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 23:40:52 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis, Mystara, and the tone of the World In a message dated 98-07-07 11:04:03 EDT, megst19+@pitt.edu writes: > In the major source for Thyatis-Alphatia (DoTE) though I detect a > considerable bias by Alston towards the latter empire. More focus on the > Thyatian slavery and colonization than the Alphatia slavery and > colonization. More focus on Thyatian corruption than on Alphatian drug > (ab)use. Thyatis gets portrayed as the brute-force moron while Alphatia > is this crafty, intelligent sophisticate. I personally prefer to see > Thyatis as just an intelligent and Alphatia just as prone to brute force. > Thyatis simply relies more on preserving unique cultures and on fighting > talent while Alphatia relies more on magic and assimilation of colonies. But even DotE does show the egalitarian side of Thyatis. In Alphatia, the only way to attain respect is to be an Alphatian ("Pure" or "Common") or Thothian spellcaster (thus no respect for Warriors and Rogues). But in the Thyatian Empire anyone can potentially achieve power and command the respect of Thyatians. After all, think of how Thincol himself began -- as a slave gladiator of Norwold origin. If someone as lowly as that could become Emperor of Thyatis, does that not show that anyone in the Thyatian Empire could potentially gain great power and respect? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 23:40:45 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Timeline junk In a message dated 98-07-07 03:53:34 EDT, jruhlconob@sprynet.com writes: > I don't know about the pervert part, and the insanity part will take a bit > of reasurch (but c.f. nickname, "Little General", purges, etc.) I based the "insane pervert" remark on what I saw of Caligula on "I, Claudius" as well as reading from some lurid 1st century Roman biographies. If you have a different impression of Caligula in regard to the probable fate of Eusebius, please elaborate. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 23:40:43 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Amen Brother!!!! was (Re: I don't like Karameikos) In a message dated 98-07-07 03:52:34 EDT, jruhlconob@sprynet.com writes: > Letting him die quietly after a long, successful rule (see, I don't > *really* hate the dude) would be enough for me. The only reason that I brought up premature senility is that a man in his late 60s is not really old -- either in Mystara or in the real world. So if you want him to die of natural causes, he could be around for another 10-30 years or so. So here is another possibility -- Stefan is truly tired of ruling and wishes to retire. He believes that his daughter is up to the task of ruling, so he abdicates in her favor. Queen Adriana faces all of the problems that you cited, with the additional uncertainty of the possibility that things might get so bad that Stefan reclaims power. But rather than doing that, it is more likely that Stefan will emigrate to Ierendi so as to be well removed from Karameikan politics. One interesting feature of this scenario is that the Cult of Halav will still go nuts. After all -- Halav abdicate? Unthinkable! And yet he did.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 23:40:53 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraWriters! I have neither the time nor the energy to contribute to the this worthy group, but I hope that some among you are preparing those submissions for _Dungeon_ magazine! And please let us know whenever you produce and upload to a Web site some new Mystara material. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 22:37:34 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic/The Chronicles of the Unbeliever > > Okay, quickly before someone complains about the non-canon nature of this > thread... > > Btw, if anyone is interested in discussing some of the good books that pop > up on this list...I would be interested! > Anytime anyone wants to discuss the book "Byzantine State Finances in the 8th and 9th Centuries" (by Warren Tredgold), I'll be happy too. 8-)~ (Btw, I'm not *entirely* saying that in jest. I've never read a better book on domain finances.) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 22:49:17 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Timeline junk : > > I based the "insane pervert" remark on what I saw of Caligula on "I, Claudius" > as well as reading from some lurid 1st century Roman biographies. If you > have a different impression of Caligula in regard to the probable fate of > Eusebius, please elaborate. > Oh, sorry; I was insuficiently presise. Caligula was a perv., I was just speaking in terms of Eusibius' future (TSR probably wasn't going to include lurid details of lacivious debauchery in future Almanacs). If it is acceptable to you for me to delay, I'll thumb through my PWAs and excise quotes and explain why I think these are indicators of a future direction they were going to go ("Eusibius the Mad". Hmmmn. . .almost sounds like Lucan). Hmmmmn. . .you know, I'm not sure I want to encourage such a development however, and since no one else seems to agree with me, perhaps I should forego the reasurch endevour and leave it at this. We'll see. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 23:56:55 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos In a message dated 98-07-07 22:15:09 EDT, borealis@cois.on.ca writes: > Seriously, though, Glantri is in serious shambles right now. Their > religious intolerance makes the Thyatian/Traladaran conflict seem like > nothing. They have a night dragon, a vampire, a lich (maybe), a KOBOLD, a > paranoid lunatic, and a werewolf as rulers. Sure, I'd just love to live in > Glantri... Just out of curiosity -- I was fairly certain that Glantri had a lich among its Princes, but which one is the "paranoid lunatic"? There seem to be too many and yet too few who truly qualify for that title.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 22:53:09 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Amen Brother!!!! was (Re: I don't like Karameikos) > > One interesting feature of this scenario is that the Cult of Halav will still > go nuts. After all -- Halav abdicate? Unthinkable! And yet he did.... > Hmmn. . .they'd probably find a way to rationalize all that. "Halav" turned over the reigns of power to "Petra incarnate" (a new Heresy!), and intends to go on epic quests to insure the prosperity of his people! Er. . only he isn't doing that. He's retired to his hunting lodge. Some Gnoll must have befuddled him! We need to clear his mind and guide him back to his intended course of action (a new Heresy!) but what is the proper way to "encourage" the "proper attitude" in our "living god" (more new Heresys!) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 21:00:14 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Fw: Message not deliverable - -----Original Message----- From: postmaster@lindebergs.se To: vanquer@softhome.net Date: Tuesday, July 07, 1998 9:02 PM Subject: Message not deliverable >>if anyone can give any suggestions on how to get the two fighting styles >>equal, please answer this, my players are just a bunch of fighters, with >>identical fighting styles and weapons, none of them want the "weakness" of >>fighting with one weapon, when they can use two and do more damage. >>DMXFighter > > > The problem isn't in the fighting styles and weapons, it's in the >character conception. Ask "them" why... If they tell you the same thing that >you say above, then you need to work role-playing into the game more. > Different fighting styles, different weapons, unique combinations, and >taking a little "weakness" for "Style" is what being a fighter is all about. >Very few people fought Florentine (two weapons). > With the attitude displayed above, I'd say that you should probably >throw out the Player's Option books until you and your players have a little >more experience under your belts. (No flame intended). > >Later. > >Jesse. >vanquer@softhome.net >ICQ. 8004143 > > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe realms' as the body of the message. > >The Realms FAQ is located at: > > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 22:56:46 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Preserving Alphatia's Way of Life. > > No golems? No wishes? No magic-users/clerics with less > than INT/WIS of 16? > "If Wishes were horses, then beggars would ride". I still don't think they need Wishes. However, a solution to the INT/WIS of 16 thing has been stareing us in the face, but I just didn't see it. Dispense with the Idea that someone is ". . .born with the trait of magic use," and assume that anyone smart or wise enough is able to do so (as has been argued already). This would mean that in the future roughly 10% of the populace would be able to use either Clerical or Magical spells. Yes, this is lower than before (but see below). However, all the folks who are currently spellcasters remain spellcasters ("grandfathered in"), and the most powerful can live almost as long as they want. This dimunition in the percentage of thouse able to use magic would just continue a long trendline: "Once upon a time, 99 in 100 Alphatians were magical. . .After the Alphatians made Landfall. . .the children they bore were only about 50% magical. . .Today, the proportion is even worse. . .It is estimated today that only one Alphatian in five is born with the trait of magic use." (Player's Guide to Alphatia, pp.13-14). I.E. they go from nearly 100%, to 50%, to 20%, and finally to 10% (after a few generations in the Hollow World), where things "level off". This is still a high proportion. The Alphatian aristocracy/nobility are the spellcasters, and you don't need a "nobility" larger than this to maintain a certain "way of life" (the other 90% being the wogs & slaves, as 80% of the populace is now). N.B.: also, at least from this, there was an assumption, again DK if it was meant to be true or not, that the trait of magic use was heritable ("Magic users live longer and have fewer children than thouse who have no magic." is given as a reason for the decline in the % of magically-capable individuals). We just remove that, allow anyone with the requisite score to wield magic, and move on. And what are we left with? In fact, a fairly "meritocratic" society: the smartest and wisest form the nobility automatically. Now, this doesn't guarantee that they'll provide good leadership, but IMO better to have smart, thoughtful folks in charge than morons. IMO, this is a fine solution for fans of Alphatia. No longer would the social order be a semi-hereditary caste system where the dissolute govern, but a meritocracy, thus giving you bragging rights. Such a society might start, eventually (a millenium from now?) to reflect the best aspects of Zhodani society (from Traveller). Smart/wise slaves will rise to the nobility, and they may argue against the practice (and, since now the "trait" of magic isn't heritable, but determined by stats--which are randomly generated in D&D + AD&D, even if IRL Intelligence is to *some* significant degree heritable). Anyhow, more on the social affects of such a change at a later point. Unless someone wants to argue that the SoP will insure that Alphatia remains a slave-and-wog based society forever. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 23:05:04 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos > > Just out of curiosity -- I was fairly certain that Glantri had a lich among > its > Princes, but which one is the "paranoid lunatic"? There seem to be too > many and yet too few who truly qualify for that title.... > McGreggor is the Lich, Innocenti is the paranoid lunatic. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 23:15:34 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Fw: Message not deliverable > >Very few people fought Florentine (two weapons). > Yah, darn, and I thought bearing two weapons was kinda unique. I'll have to rethink my character concept if everyone is going to do it. IMO, there are lots of good reasons to not use the "optimal" weapons ("Longsword, 'cause most magic items are Longswords" or "I wanna Two Hander" or, even better "yah, my character was tutored by this master swordsman from a strange, distant land; he's specialized in the Katana"). Of course, no one is expecting anyone to become proficient in the Bill-Guisimarine or the Bec de Corbin, for Vanya's sake. But IMO folks should want to look *distinctive* (a pair of sabres, that's distinctive. . .unless everyone is wielding two sabres, in which I just might go in for no weapons at all, except that too many creatures can only be hit by magical weapons, and my delicate hands don't qualify). No one wants to get their ass kicked, which is why folks tend to "optimize" ("Min-Max") their skills et all (I do that, myself: why be deliberately *inefficient*?), but any hero worthy of the name wants to stand out from the mass. Their are advantages to each combat style, btw, too. IMO, the "Single Weapon Style" is a very good one itself. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 21:37:02 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos They have a night dragon, a vampire, a lich (maybe), a KOBOLD, a >paranoid lunatic, and a werewolf as rulers. Sure, I'd just love to live in >Glantri... Yeah, but it's a Scottish lich. That makes up for everything (did I mention Scotland is the greatest country in any dimension?). Bonny Prince Nicholas "Oh, that's ded great. Then macwhat macneed macI macfear of MacDuff?" -Macbeth, The Reduced Shakespeare Co. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 23:37:05 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Greatness and Thyatian Withering > > > i am not sure why we Americans would prefer thyatis. or preferred alphatia > > for that matter. if you think about it thyatis and alphatia are two sides of > the > > same coin. > They are "two sides of the same coin," which might be why some Americans are repelled, and others attracted, by both. They are, IMO, in many ways, two sides of the *American* coin, both in their virtues and in their vices. Alphatian individualism, the Thyatian "Melting Pot" (or, if you'd prefer, "Mosaic" or "Multiculturalism," depending on your own leanings/interpretation). Both nations have slavery, as we (and I'd point out most of the planet) did, corruption and drug abuse, self-centeredness and spectacle entertainment. They are proud, vocal proponents of their own "way of life", and are more than happy to spread it to other areas of the world (whether the folks being enlightened want the enlightenment or not). As for myself, I like(d) both Empires, for a variety of reasons. So I guess I'm one of the Americans who was attracted, not repelled. Folks laud Karameikos (and probably other places, too) in no small part because of the flatness of the setting: all vices are abstracted out, and what remains is portrayed as a "golden age" climatic society. Not true for either of the Empires. Which creates in both a rich depth that makes them, in my opinion, more *alive*. It opens up oportunities for all kinds of role playing, the "diversity" (to use an overused, horrendus term) found in each is a game-play *strength*. But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 21:58:33 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Fw: Message not deliverable >.unless everyone is wielding two sabres, in which I just might go in for no >weapons at all, except that too many creatures can only be hit by magical >weapons, and my delicate hands don't qualify). Don't forget about the mystic: at high levels, they can even hit Immortals (acts as +5) and do some serious damage, not to mention multiple attacks, hyper speed, and a truly powerful "Gentle Touch". On this subject, I notice that in the Master DM Book, it says that while they don't often use weapons, they are trained in every weapon; what level of mastery do they have? Anyone else find it odd that their powers are based on Asian monks but their organization on European (just like the 1st ed. AD&D monk). Abbott Nicholas "Five-Fingered Flaming Fist of Doom" Hudson ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 22:09:31 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Preserving Alphatia's Way of Life. > Anyhow, more on the social affects of such a change at a later point. >Unless someone wants to argue that the SoP will insure that Alphatia >remains a slave-and-wog based society forever. I gather from the PWA and WotI that one of the Immortals' intent in placing Alphatia (which suffers from DeMS more than anything: Deus ex Machina Sydrome) in the Hollow World was for Alphatia to act as a guardian of the Hollow World, preventing colonization from the Outer World. However, the SoP maintains a culture's current level of sophistication, including technology, and it would seem as though that might apply to magical research. Even if it is just technology, however, Alphatia is doomed to failure. A few hundred years from now (maybe sooner, maybe later), the Thyatian 3rd Fleet, consisting of Beagle-class ships and armed with Hellbore missiles, zooms down through the polar openings. The Thyatian power mages, now equiped with all of Alphatia's magic and more, neutralize the Council, and Alphatia becomes a new "protectorate" of the Grand Benevolent Thyatian Commonwealth, and Eriadna enjoys her new life as serving wench to His August Majesty, Emperor Galaxius IV... Nicholas Hudson "One Race, One Empire, One Time." -Qartanaq ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 00:05:54 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Fw: Message not deliverable > > Don't forget about the mystic: at high levels, they can even hit > Immortals (acts as +5) and do some serious damage, not to mention > multiple attacks, hyper speed, and a truly powerful "Gentle Touch". > Yes, but they came for the Mystics, and I was not a Mystic, so I said nothing. > On this subject, I notice that in the Master DM Book, it says that > while they don't often use weapons, they are trained in every weapon; > what level of mastery do they have? Anyone else find it odd that their > powers are based on Asian monks but their organization on European (just > like the 1st ed. AD&D monk). > Yes, they closely resembled the AD&D Monk; I think both classes were designed so that people could play "Kung Fu" masters, while "fitting them in" with the general "Midieval Euro" theme of the game as a whole (thus the organization as monastic "orders" on the european, rather than the east asian, model). Just don't mention the Order of the Yellow Rose and I'll be happy (I'm sorry, that Solar really annoyed me, and normally I like Texans just fine.) http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/7211/music/yellow_rose_of_texas.mid *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 00:09:38 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Preserving Alphatia's Way of Life. > "protectorate" of the Grand Benevolent Thyatian Commonwealth, LOL. Amusing. I hope untrue (I know untrue), but amusing. Hmmmn. . .in Solmyr's MystBR game I've reciently taken to, on occasion, refering to Thyatis as a "Commonwealth" myself. Great minds think alike, I guess. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 22:18:13 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Amen Brother!!!! was (Re: I don't like Karameikos) Queen Adriana faces all of the problems that you >cited, with the additional uncertainty of the possibility that things might >get so bad that Stefan reclaims power. But rather than doing that, it is >more likely that Stefan will emigrate to Ierendi so as to be well removed >from Karameikan politics. How about this one? Stefan becomes hideously ill (probably too much gnomish hair gel, "Karaynis' Miraculous Ointment of Charismatic Slickness" :)), and takes a vacation in Ierendi or someplace similar. While there, he is secretly abducted by a secret society (I would use the Order of the Frog, but that's me) who turns him over to von Hendriks and Bargle (if you killed either of them, for shame! Such a waste...), who, through nefarious magic, switch von Hendriks' face for Stefan's (veddy veddy similar to Face/Off, I know, but still good). Stefan is released as von Hendriks, probably feebleminded as well, captured and thrown in prison. Von Hendriks and Bargle proceed to take over the country, encouraging the Cult of Halav with official proclomations, and entrench themselves into the royalty... Nicholas Hudson ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 22:21:36 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thincol and Torenal When he was not watching the love of >his life with the latest boytoy, he was out practicing for his "destined >encounter" with the Emperor of Thyatis. He was certain it would be his >blade that would fell the guy... It's perfect! Thincol and Torenal, the ultimate showdown in Limbo! See Mystara's greatest warriors go head-to-head in the shade of the Imperial Colloseum. The Masters of Chaos could sell tickets to sentient beings across the Multiverse. Nicholas Hudson, scalping tickets now! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #481 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, July 8 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 482 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wishes - it has started... Re: [MYSTARA] - Fw: Message not deliverable Re: [MYSTARA] - Preserving Alphatia's Way of Life. Re: [MYSTARA] - Republic Darokin Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic/The Chronicles of the Unbeliever Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos Re: [MYSTARA] - Fw: Message not deliverable Re: [MYSTARA] - Republic Darokin Re: [MYSTARA] - Wishes - it has started... Re: [MYSTARA] - Republic Darokin Re: [MYSTARA] - Republic Darokin Re: [MYSTARA] - Republic Darokin [MYSTARA] - MystaraWriters! Re: [MYSTARA] - Timeline junk [MYSTARA] - Weapon Styles rulz Re: [MYSTARA] - Wishes - it has started... Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Greatness and Thyatian Withering Re: [MYSTARA] - Preserving Alphatia's Way of Life. Re: [MYSTARA] - Thincol and Torenal Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos Re: [MYSTARA] - Fw: Message not deliverable ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 22:28:00 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wishes - it has started... >No but my 7th level Alter Reality spell says that you forgot to memorize >that spell. Much more useful, less twistable, and attainable at a lower >level. >BTW: I couldn't find Armageddon in the Best of Dragon Vol. 1, where is it? I should be under Miscellaneous Treasure, on page 30. Nicholas Hudson Who is taking a page from Alphaks and some current movies. Heads up, Jesse! :) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 22:34:43 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Fw: Message not deliverable > Just don't mention the Order of the Yellow Rose and I'll be happy (I'm >sorry, that Solar really annoyed me, and normally I like Texans just fine.) Only slightly off topic, but I was once priviliedged enough to perform Coleridge's "Rime of the Ancient Mariner" to the tune of Yellow Rose of Texas. Actually, Rime has some great imagery, and you could do a pretty eerie adventure based on it; TSR did with the Flying Dutchman. Nicholas Hudson "It is an Ancient Mariner, and he stoppeth one of three..." ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 22:46:39 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Preserving Alphatia's Way of Life. >> "protectorate" of the Grand Benevolent Thyatian Commonwealth, > >LOL. Amusing. I hope untrue (I know untrue), but amusing. > Hmmmn. . .in Solmyr's MystBR game I've reciently taken to, on occasion, >refering to Thyatis as a "Commonwealth" myself. > Great minds think alike, I guess. I just thought of one way for Thyatis to get some quick super-technological aid: oards. In the third age on Aelos, the oards went to the most mundane empire and taught them certain techniques, like iron working. This was all an attempt to destroy the influence of magic on Aelos. What empire represents magic more than Alphatia? The oards visit the Thyatian emperor, make a deal, and Thyatis suddenly has a technological "breakthrough" and assigns new military "advisors" to elite units. Events then occur as mentioned before. Nicholas Hudson "One Race, One Empire, One Time." -Qartanaq ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 08:50:34 +0200 (EET DST) From: Anias Pasi Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Republic Darokin ROB wrote: > I can just imagine all the skulduggery, industrial espionage, corruption and > so on all festering behind the scenes in Darokin, doubtless using the DDC to > cover up all their activities (after all, revealing their dirty laundry to > the world wont do any Darokinian boss any good) This is strange. A couple of other mailers also suggested to something like this, and to something 'earn money by all means possible'. I had the picture that the Gaz actually told that the Darokinians are wery law-abiding peoples. They pay taxes because they understand that it is nessessary. The corruption cant be wery big (the ones that have the power dont need anything from those that dont have the power, except that they do their share in the country). Its told that its illegal to bribe the civil cervants to do anything, but it is lawful to speed them with a little bonus (Wich is ok by me, as it is not excpected, its just possible, and even then You propably cant jump forward in the queque, at least much). Everything gives a picture of lawfull enterprizing... And there wont be much of _industrial_ espionage. As there isnt too much of industry to speak about. So what, if the next man sees me hammering the metal... Might be some espionage as to the trade secrets, but probably not much, as the companies are wide open for inspecting anyway (because of the wealth-tax and to show how rich they are). Personally I see the atmosphere of the competition with the Darokinian merchants similar to the one many western -books give about the settlers. There is competition, but it is fair. The name is still more important than the money. And besides, every river is full of gold anyway, aso there are ample opportunities to everyone. Pasi - -- X Pasi Anias X p.03 - 2533536 X \\|// X X Sammonkatu 28 A 18 X a122286@proffa X (o o) X X 33540 Tampere X .cc.tut.fi X o000--(_)--000o X *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 22:50:52 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic/The Chronicles of the Unbeliever >We're fully agreed here. My response was because the person who posted the >initial thread was making it sound like it was all in his head when it >wasn't. I'm sorry you interpreted it that way. I didn't mean anything except the opposite. I was just trying to give a fantasy example of the negapsychic (sorry about bringing up the good or evil bit; I haven't read the series in a long while, and I actually forgot about the rape part. Gomen nasai); The world is real, but the negapsychic refuses to accept it. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 00:46:19 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos > > > That's not King Stefan's fault, is it? > Nothing is his responsibility. Of course, that's the point: he takes responsibility for nothing, and if good things happen, he takes the credit, while if bad things happen it's always someone else's fault. A great job. Kinda like being Prexy of the US, I guess. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 23:07:51 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Fw: Message not deliverable Sorry all, the original message was meant for the Realms list. Oh well. In answer to the challenges... **************************** James Ruhland wrote: >Yah, darn, and I thought bearing two weapons was kinda unique. I'll have to >rethink my character concept if everyone is going to do it. If you've got a character concept, there's no reason to change it. The problem with the post that I was responding to was a guy asking if anyone had any ideas on how to make the two combat styles more "balanced" so that he could encourage his players not to all take the two weapons approach (Not to lower the two weapons mind you, but to improve the others). > IMO, there are lots of good reasons to not use the "optimal" weapons >("Longsword, 'cause most magic items are Longswords" or "I wanna Two >Hander" or, even better "yah, my character was tutored by this master >swordsman from a strange, distant land; he's specialized in the Katana"). Yeah. There you go for concept. The 3 Musketeers using 6 longswords... > Of course, no one is expecting anyone to become proficient in the >Bill-Guisimarine or the Bec de Corbin, for Vanya's sake. But IMO folks >should want to look *distinctive* (a pair of sabres, that's distinctive. . >.unless everyone is wielding two sabres, in which I just might go in for no >weapons at all, except that too many creatures can only be hit by magical >weapons, and my delicate hands don't qualify). Try wearing armor. If you're wearing Magical Armor that should very well satisfy the "hit by a magic weapon" problem. There are also items made specifically for unarmed combatants. > No one wants to get their ass kicked, which is why folks tend to >"optimize" ("Min-Max") their skills et all (I do that, myself: why be >deliberately *inefficient*?), but any hero worthy of the name wants to >stand out from the mass. Alright, you min/max with the options available do you prefer the +8 to hit, the +10 damage, the 3 attacks per round, +5 Initiative, or the -1 AC. Any one of which can be accomplished at 1st level? "What a concept" BTW: AC could drop to -5 should we choose not to attack. Then we can also parry with our 3 attacks that round. Also, the game isn't about keeping your ass from getting kicked. It's about role-playing. I mean nobody wanted to get their ass kicked in the Roman empire, but every hero didn't go running around with two Spatha did they? > Their are advantages to each combat style, btw, too. IMO, the "Single >Weapon Style" is a very good one itself. Here we've got agreement. I prefer this one myself, but it is decidedly weaker than the Two Weapons style. *********************************** Take the flames in a joking manner :-) Later. Jesse. vanquer@softhome.net ICQ. 8004143 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 23:12:50 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Republic Darokin > Personally I see the atmosphere of the competition with the Darokinian >merchants similar to the one many western -books give about the settlers. >There is competition, but it is fair. The name is still more important >than the money. And besides, every river is full of gold anyway, aso there >are ample opportunities to everyone. While I agree with your assesment of Darokin (if it really was corrupt, the Master would have just bought the DDC), that's not the way I want it. One of my favorite sci-fi concepts is the omnipotent, evil megacorporation, best portrayed in FASA's Shadowrunner; What is good for the corporation is good for the country. The only problem is that no country in the Known World, or anywhere else on Mystara, for that matter, in my opinion, is advanced enough in economics to even have something resembling the modern corporation. Those countries that would be good candidates (ie, Darokin and Minrothad) and strangled with the Guild system. Of course, if anyone develops the advance of Mass Production, well... (I use Civ2 to help plan civilization advances; that game is almost perfect). Nicholas Hudson, President and CEO MagicTec, Inc. "He who strives for goodness in all his deeds is certain to come to ruin, for there are so many men who are not good." -Machievelli ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 23:14:46 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wishes - it has started... >>No but my 7th level Alter Reality spell says that you forgot to >memorize >>that spell. Much more useful, less twistable, and attainable at a lower >>level. >>BTW: I couldn't find Armageddon in the Best of Dragon Vol. 1, where is >it? > > I should be under Miscellaneous Treasure, on page 30. > > Nicholas Hudson > Who is taking a page from Alphaks and some current movies. Heads >up, Jesse! :) Lol. I was wondering how you were going to answer this one because I knew that this was ridiculous even for the 10th levelers in the books :-) Later. Jesse. vanquer@softhome.net ICQ. 8004143 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 01:21:54 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Republic Darokin > something resembling the modern corporation. Those countries that would > be good candidates (ie, Darokin and Minrothad) and strangled with the > Guild system. > You know, you can do *lots* with d'Medici types, and thouse Venetian "Factors" were as nasty as Aztecnology ever dreams of being. Remember, Nicolo Machiaveli wrote his little book for a d'Medici. . . . *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 23:32:44 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Republic Darokin >One of my favorite sci-fi concepts is the omnipotent, evil megacorporation, >best portrayed in FASA's Shadowrunner; What is good for the corporation is >good for the country. The only problem is that no country in the Known World, >or anywhere else on Mystara, for that matter, in my opinion, is advanced >enough in economics to even have something resembling the modern >corporation. Those countries that would be good candidates (ie, Darokin and >Minrothad) and strangled with the Guild system. Of course, if anyone >develops the advance of Mass Production, well... (I use Civ2 to help plan >civilization advances; that game is almost perfect). > Nicholas Hudson, President and CEO MagicTec, Inc. This is entirely from a 2nd ed. perspective, but what about the Dwarves? They seem like the type that could run under a "MegaCorporation" of sorts. Just a really weird idea that hit me. Later. Jesse. vanquer@softhome.net ICQ. 8004143 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 01:34:47 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Republic Darokin > > I had the picture that the Gaz actually told that the Darokinians are wery > law-abiding peoples. They pay taxes because they understand that it is > nessessary. > Yah, that's my problem with most of the Gazeteers; they were (largely) written in the era where almost all adventures were dungeon crawls or other sword n spell events (*almost* all), and the societies described in them were, for the most part, idealized semi-utopias. Modern play is less combat centered (not *too* much less, because, hopefully, everything will end up in a good brawl). Intrigue, rooting out corruption and nefarious (political/economic) schemes, these are now "bread and butter" things. A peaceful, calm, law abiding society would be a lovely place to live, but a tough place to adventure in (killing orcs on the frontier gets kinda old). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 23:54:25 -0700 From: "Jared Noble" Subject: [MYSTARA] - MystaraWriters! This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_01BDAA02.91DBCE80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am interested in the Mystara Writers Guild. Send me anything I need to know. I'll be more then happy so submit material. Jace - ------=_NextPart_000_01BDAA02.91DBCE80 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


I am interested in the = Mystara Writers Guild. Send me anything I need to know. I'll be more = then happy so submit = material.


Jace

- ------=_NextPart_000_01BDAA02.91DBCE80-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 03:27:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Timeline junk Rob pontificated: > > (BTW - hey James Ruhland - how much time do you spend each day writing > emails? Because I was somewhat surprised when it seemed that 95% of my > unusually large number of daily posts turned out to be yours. Not that I > mind - good stuff - but I was curious :) You should seen some of the masterpieces he composed in Alexsei's PBeM games. Wow... - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | Chief Combustion Engineer UVa, Material Science Dept. | Advanced Materials Specialist IPM Lab | CEA of LNT Committee (804) 984-3789 | -SEMO International Racing Team *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 08:44:36 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Weapon Styles rulz >>>if anyone can give any suggestions on how to get the two fighting styles >>>equal, please answer this, my players are just a bunch of fighters, with >>>identical fighting styles and weapons, none of them want the "weakness" of >>>fighting with one weapon, when they can use two and do more damage. >>>DMXFighter Hmm. I dont use the Combat and Tactics stuff, because I consider it to be rampant powergaming. But - aside from that - there are six basic combat styles used in AD+D that I consider appropriate for Mystara. ie. two hander style two weapon style weapon + shield style single weapon style and, provisionally Spanish style Italian style (I use these two for Savage Coast Swashbucklers). Of the above styles, they all have strengths and weaknesses. (single weapon style is a bit naff, but Spanish style is an amped up version, so use that instread...). If you allow parrying (and absolute must IMHO - an AD+D fighter can otherwise dish out far too much damage in a round - it becomes a case of who wins initiative!) than the above are all well balanced (weapon and shield style probably works out the all around best), with a couple of house rules... Which I may as well share... Strength - Strength damage adjustment is gross (especially with 18/00 strength and all that malarkey). I limit the Strength damage adjustment to +4 unless you are using a two handed weapon - that gives two handed weapons a point. (Otherwise Conan would do well to put away his two handed sword and use darts - now thats very sad) Two Hander style - gives +1 to hit, +2 to damage, in addition to what it already did (-3 weapon speed). Now Conan with his two handed sword should be feared, even if hes losing an attack for not using two weapons. (Now this a purely an IMC thing, but a l o n g time ago in a Dragon Forum article on parrying, someone wrote in with what I thought was a stroke of genius... In the Complete Fighters you can choose to use on of your attacks to parry - a parry is just a simple hit roll, and if it succeeds you block one of the opponents hits on you. The guy in Dragon said that parrying against their armour class was stupid, so you should parry against their THAC0 (so Thincol with his THAC0 of - lots will be very hard to parry). So you convert their THAC0 into a sort of "parrying armour class", by subtracting 10 from it. So to parry THAC0 20 you have to hit AC 10, to parry THAC0 19 you have to hit AC 9, and so on...) Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 08:33:45 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wishes - it has started... >>>have Wish. Wish can do anything the DM allows. You need more??? >> I have a copy of Best of Dragon vol.1 that contains the level 10 >>spell, "Armageddon". It delievers a blast of pure energy inflicting 10 >>to the 21st power points of damage, destroying the world. No savings >>throw. Game Over >> Now, can you do that with a wish? :) Would you allow that Armageddon spell? Probably not. Thats why a wish can do anything the DM allows... If one wish cant, multiple wishes probably can. You could probably destroy a planet with, say, 50 carefully worded wishes. (perhaps not even that). Course, we have Immortals here - and they have a Union :) Thats their job! Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 09:02:02 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Greatness and Thyatian Withering Your answer is very intriguing...and probably one that an actual American would never come up with. Don't misinterprate this to mean "not true", rather I think it is a very insightful idea... I would put forth love for Alphatia possibly being related to the "individuality" of its people. The freedom... Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 98-07-07 19:47:43 EDT, Alex295@aol.com writes: > > > i am not sure why we Americans would prefer thyatis. or preferred alphatia > > for that matter. if you think about it thyatis and alphatia are two sides of > the > > same coin. > > I think that there is one aspect of Thyatis that Americans would find > appealing > -- the way that it managed to unite so many disparate races, ethnic groups, > and classes into a united nation. That whole scheme fell apart in WotI, but > the way Thyatis was depicted in DotE was very appealing in that respect. > Any nation where racist fools such as the Hattians were the butt of jokes by > everybody else could not have been all bad, after all. > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 09:08:06 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Preserving Alphatia's Way of Life. Ooooh! I like it! Nicholas Hudson wrote: > >> "protectorate" of the Grand Benevolent Thyatian Commonwealth, > > > >LOL. Amusing. I hope untrue (I know untrue), but amusing. > > Hmmmn. . .in Solmyr's MystBR game I've reciently taken to, on > occasion, > >refering to Thyatis as a "Commonwealth" myself. > > Great minds think alike, I guess. > > I just thought of one way for Thyatis to get some quick > super-technological aid: oards. In the third age on Aelos, the oards > went to the most mundane empire and taught them certain techniques, like > iron working. This was all an attempt to destroy the influence of magic > on Aelos. What empire represents magic more than Alphatia? The oards > visit the Thyatian emperor, make a deal, and Thyatis suddenly has a > technological "breakthrough" and assigns new military "advisors" to > elite units. Events then occur as mentioned before. > > Nicholas Hudson > "One Race, One Empire, One Time." -Qartanaq > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 09:14:53 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thincol and Torenal Actually I have had this vision for a long time... The heroes (all lords of Norwold) meet the father of their king and feel some compassion/pity for him. He tells them, with some fevered insistence, that he is destined to meet Thincol across a misty battlefield. He knows not the war, time or location, but he is more sure of this one event then he is of anything else in life. Then it happens. The heroes (or possibly their children) learn of his death. Then a few years later Thincol dies. They had come to believe in the vision themselves, and now it is forever impossible. Until the dream..."You see two mighty men meeting across a misty, fog-enshrouded battlefield. You recognize the late emperor of Thyatis, peering, straining his eyes to see his foe. The other man raises his sword slowly, in a warrior's salute. Their eyes meet, and they know each other. They stride across the battlefield and lock hands..." Nicholas Hudson wrote: > When he was not watching the love of > >his life with the latest boytoy, he was out practicing for his > "destined > >encounter" with the Emperor of Thyatis. He was certain it would be his > >blade that would fell the guy... > > It's perfect! Thincol and Torenal, the ultimate showdown in Limbo! > See Mystara's greatest warriors go head-to-head in the shade of the > Imperial Colloseum. The Masters of Chaos could sell tickets to sentient > beings across the Multiverse. > > Nicholas Hudson, scalping tickets now! > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 09:46:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos >Just out of curiosity -- I was fairly certain that Glantri had a lich among >its >Princes, but which one is the "paranoid lunatic"? There seem to be too >many and yet too few who truly qualify for that title.... > Innocenti di Malapietra. During WotI, Alphaks dropped a bunch of high-level mages on a party in Glantri. They killed everyone but Malapietra. Then the crater hit, wiping out Caurenze. So now there's one guy sitting in a ruined castle who uses a wand of disintegration on anything that comes within range, because he knows they're coming to kill him. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 10:20:42 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Fw: Message not deliverable > > > IMO, there are lots of good reasons to not use the "optimal" weapons > >("Longsword, 'cause most magic items are Longswords" or "I wanna Two > >Hander" or, even better "yah, my character was tutored by this master > >swordsman from a strange, distant land; he's specialized in the Katana"). > > Yeah. There you go for concept. The 3 Musketeers using 6 longswords... > LOL (btw, my above stuff was in jest, based on semi-common player ideas for min-maxing. I personally love hearing arguments as to why someone who grew up in, say, Cormyr or Waterdeep or Karameikos should know how to wield a Katana. . . .amusing, but futile. . . .) > > Try wearing armor. If you're wearing Magical Armor that should very well > satisfy the "hit by a magic weapon" problem. There are also items made > specifically for unarmed combatants. > Wear armor? You must be jesting. My "ideal" character concept would be no weapons, no armor, no magic items. . .of course, that ideal is impractical. > > Also, the game isn't about keeping your ass from getting kicked. It's about > role-playing. I mean nobody wanted to get their ass kicked in the Roman > empire, but every hero didn't go running around with two Spatha did they? > That was my point. However, not getting your ass kicked is also very important, and no one is likely to deliberately handycap themselves in any extreme way. I think you may have *somewhat* misjudged my post, because by and large I was agreeing with you. As you said, few people fight Florentine, so when I adopted that as my character's style it was partly for uniqueness and partly for effectiveness (as I said, why be uneffective? Combining both efficiency and distinctiveness is a good idea), but as I also said, if everyone is wielding a Longsword, then I don't want to, and if everyone is wielding two of them, then I certainly don't want to. > > Here we've got agreement. I prefer this one myself, but it is decidedly > weaker than the Two Weapons style. > Hmmmmn. . .I'm not positive about that. Remember, the Two Weapons style doesn't *double* attacks (I.E. a 13th level fighter isn't making 5 attacks per Round, but 7/2), still advantageous, but Weapon Mastery can allow someone with one weapon to duplicate that feet. Perhaps in the 3rd Edition they should make the Two Weapons style cost two Proficiency slots though, because it is the most "advantageous". Mastery can aslo be achieved by a character with Two Weapons, making for an "awesome" 9/2 attacks, potentially; but by this point such a character has used all their proficiencies (or almost all) on one weapon, being inproficient in virtually everything else, which has numerous drawbacks in and of itself. So no Warrior character can be made "perfect" in every way (unless you're talking Dark Sun Gladiators). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #482 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, July 8 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 483 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Greatness and Thyatian Withering Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos Re: [MYSTARA] - Thincol and Torenal Re: [MYSTARA] - Agrandizing Alphatia (as if it needs agrandizement) Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D AD&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic (Was: Terari mets El) Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos Re: [MYSTARA] - 1015 Almanac strikes back! Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic/The Chronicles of the Unbeliever Re: [MYSTARA] - Who is "evil", and do we need Alignments anyhow? Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Armies: all "reserves"? [MYSTARA] - SaveMystara! Re: [MYSTARA] - SaveMystara! Re: [MYSTARA] - SaveMystara! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 10:23:33 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic > > Max IV - MML, breaking canon when it makes sense. > Oh, I have no problem with doing that, myself. However, in universal forums (such as mailing lists), I assume canon (and not my own variants/deviations from timeline/etc) is the "baseline" for a discussion. Which certainly doesn't mean we can't decide to scrap it (see my later "Preserving Alphatia's Way of Life" posts). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 10:32:16 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Greatness and Thyatian Withering > > I would put forth love for Alphatia possibly being related to the "individuality" > of its people. The freedom... > Just so long as you recognize that that "individuality" and "freedom" is limited to about 20% of the society, with the rest being slaves (33%+) and servile wogs (the remainder). More Thyatians (Citizens) have greater liberties, IMO. There is no caste system in Thyatis as their is in Alphatia. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 10:34:05 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos > > > Innocenti di Malapietra. During WotI, Alphaks dropped a bunch of high-level > mages on a party in Glantri. They killed everyone but Malapietra. > Yah, the dude was always a bit crackers even before that, though However, that does seem to have pushed him into deeper water. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 11:55:44 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thincol and Torenal On Tue, 7 Jul 1998, Daly wrote: > Struck down, as an afterthought, by some unknown assassin... I agree. That was a rather pathetic death. I'm sure that Allston could have come up with something better. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 12:36:23 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Agrandizing Alphatia (as if it needs agrandizement) << There was a good reason for putting it on Monster's Island, I think it was because Monster's Island is neutral ground, something like having Washington in a separate district and in one of the States. >> In Germany and Italy it works good enough without being on neutral ground. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 12:36:26 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos << You are not alone. I don't see what's the deal about Karameikos either. Glantri is much more interesting, no matter what Jamuga says :) >> Alright, as long as you don't state that Glantri is the most interesting realm of all. :-) Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 12:36:25 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic << ... (and yes, I know that Alphatia & Glantri have the highest percentage of spellcasters anywhere, but they still are in the objective sense a low percentage of the entire population, lower than you might expect when a "low average" [9] intelligence or wisdom is all that is "required" as a game prerequisite for becoming a Wizard or Cleric). >> I always played it this way: It needs a special talent to cast magical spells, let's call us a genetic trait, or a strong faith to cast clerical spells, let's call us a psychic ability. Without any of both no spells... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 18:15:28 +0100 From: Michael K Jones Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos Flossy says 'Come on, Karameikos is a good traditional starting point, other settings are adventures just in being there, it also helps to start in a culture you can identify with. Imagine the begining of a campaign in Glantri for unexpericied adventurers, 'Me, I'm a cleric of umm healing (looks at DM)' 'Would you like to accompany me sir'. Not a pleasant start' Flossy > > > > You're right on that point - Karameikos is good for intros, but since > > we're arguing our points, I'd have to say Glantri is good, too > > > Glantri has some nasty, controvluted politics, however. > Though I guess you don't have to introduce beginners to that until later. > Perhaps not until it's too late. . . . . Muhahahahahahaha! > > > the fact that there was an earth-shattering war a few years earlier. I > > dunno, it just seems to me that Karameikos is getting off TOO easily, > > > That's my main beef. Karameikos gets everything handed to them on a silver > platter (heck, even it's "own" problem was handled for them by the Hin!), > and nothing bad ever happens to them (nothing bad in a long term way; oh, > their is the occassional dragon or other "problem", but if you just read to > the next month, you'll find it's gone away, and mystically left Karameikos > somehow stronger than it was before the "disaster" occured). > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 13:17:52 EDT From: DuncanTKD@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic In a message dated 98-07-07 14:12:36 EDT, you write: << > > Okay. But you are assuming the 4th dimension=time. The Gold Box states quite > > clearly that their assumption is that the 4th dimension does not=time. End of > > dilemma. > > Dangit. Need to re-read the box. > Either way, 4 spatial dimensions is not mathematically possible. I disagree. And I think the intro in the Immortals set explains it quite well. Of course there is a 4th dimension. Otherwise, programmers could not write 4-dimensional arrays... >> I believe forth dimensions are possible it is only the fact that we as humans cannot percieve things in four dimensions. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 18:15:38 +0100 From: Michael K Jones Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D AD&D Flossy say 'So can anyone tell me if there was anything new that came out in the AD&D boxed sets with CDs? I mean useful stuff. I just didn't know if it was worth my time so I didn't bother' Flossy > >Yes, but it doesn't really count here. This is Mystara, not generic AD&D. > >We have a system of Our own. (This is D&D You know ;-) > >Pasi > > I think that both AD&D and D&D need to be addressed here, not just D&D since > there are two versions of Mystara at large. Maybe there should be some > notation in the subject lines as to whether one is addressing AD&D or D&D > when posting to the list? > > Later. > > Jesse. > vanquer@softhome.net > ICQ. 8004143 > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 18:15:56 +0100 From: Michael K Jones Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Terari mets Elminster! Flossy says But the NOS was first interferred with by immortals of Energy, it was then that the other immortals got a touch annoyed, :-) , and decided to weaken magic on the world gradually using the NOS, which left unchecked would have created more immortals of energy Flossy > On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, paul dooley wrote: > > > >Magic in Blackmoor was very unrefined. I wish I had the DA supplements > > This line is from conjecture in WoTI and other books/random knowledge I > heard somewhere. > > Remember, the NoS made magic (the sphere of energy) stronger. The > Immortals weakened it some by making the Rad levels, but it is still there > controlling the magic force of Mystara. Remember, the Week w/o Magic was > caused by the Radience overloading. > > Max IV > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 18:15:46 +0100 From: Michael K Jones Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic (Was: Terari mets El) Flossy says 'I keep wondering how the Shadow Elves little project is getting on? Remembering that the don't quite have the same clossed society that they use to' Flossy > On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, Anias Pasi wrote: > > > facts: -There WAS magic before core or NoS > > -The Mystaran Magic works in planes (no core nor NoS) > > -Not all mages (none but glantrian) use NoS > > True enough. But Mystarans don't need to have the World-Shield, or the NoS > (which acts only as a focuser to non Radience mages). The WS and the NoS > only act to create the E-M filed around a Myataran to allow them to > manipulate the force called magic. Of course, magic on the planes is > subject to whether that plane has magic imbued in it :) > > Of course, being a physicist, I always look at the totally scientific > explainiations (and am an avid fan of Technomancy, you'll all find out > about *THAT* soon enough!) > > Max IV > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 19:17:28 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos >That's not King Stefan's fault, is it? That prejudice in Karamekian society >is due to Thyatian racial superiority complex. King Stefan doesn't control >the minds of his subjects, like some rulers seem to do... > Stefan isn't exactly doing anything to prevent such attitudes... >Seriously, though, Glantri is in serious shambles right now. Their >religious intolerance makes the Thyatian/Traladaran conflict seem like >nothing. They have a night dragon, a vampire, a lich (maybe), a KOBOLD, a >paranoid lunatic, and a werewolf as rulers. Sure, I'd just love to live in >Glantri... > It just shows that Glantri looks beyond a person's appearance (unless he is a dwarf, but that's another story :) And you shouldn't assume that just because someone is a kobold or werewolf they are automatically evil. In fact, Malachie is good, and Kol and Isidore aren't evil either. ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html Join the Mystaran Birthright PBEM at the above website! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 18:16:04 +0100 From: Michael K Jones Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: the Science of Magic Flossy says ' Too right, the gold box set had much better rules for Immortal powers, all immortals are basically the same under the WOTI set, the rest of WOTI is pretty wonderful though' 'What spheres you are should affect how effective you use different spheres' Flossy > In a message dated 98-07-06 11:22:34 EDT, jdaly@friend.ly.net writes: > > > Thank you for responding so vehemently in support of the gold box. I think > > you and I are fairly alone in our adoration of that symphony of math and > magic. > > I agree, it is exciting and original. I am not even a mathematical person > > myself. I hate math. But I love the way the original Immortal rules so > > elegantly blended the old characters into a new system. > > > > I think that system, in fact, is the very beginning of new possibilities > for > > Mystara itself... > > That old gold box did offer some most intriguing ideas, although it did suffer > from being overly complicated -- but I think WotI threw out the baby with the > bath water, so to speak, and jettisoned the good ("pentaspatial teraspaces" > and the like) with the bad (a magic system that was a bookkeeping nightmare). > Has anyone given any thought to spicing up the WotI rules with some of > the better gold box ideas? > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 18:15:05 +0100 From: Michael K Jones Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos Ummm, Flossy says 'Complaints that Karameikos is too developed, umm, it is true to say that other parts of the world deserve modules as well, but Karameikos is a great introduction to Fantasy RPG' Anyway, noone has said about the surpression of the Hutaakan (see BX1 Night's Dark Terror) He must be lawful evil, mind you he was raised that way, does that make him evil? Flossy > > > > Yes, i believe so. He seems to be the heart of the country as a whole. He > > stands for a rebel to the overbearing thyatis and in the fashion of > standing > > up for one's beliefs. He's the perfect hero/leader and that does make him > > important. > > > Not to mention his booted heel on the neck of the Traldarans, and letting > the "overbearing Thyati[an]" nobility he brought with him run rampant over > "traditional" Traldaran aristocrats (which your "overbearing Thyatians" had > left largely untouched. . .befor Stefan took over). > As I said before, Stefan just had excellent propagandists, willing to > excuse his every fault and paint everything in the best possible light for > him. It doesn't take much tweaking of the words used to describe > events---and no change in "Karameikan" History, to show the "Dark Side" of > Stefan. > Perhaps he's really Lawful Evil after all. > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 18:15:15 +0100 From: Michael K Jones Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 1015 Almanac strikes back! Flossy say 'I take it this means that 1014 Almanac is available somewhere?' Sorry, old time Mystra fan, new comer here Joshuan Gallidox Publishing wrote: > Hi everybody, > Joshuan Publishing Inc. is proud to announce tha version 1.1 of the > popular Mystaran Almanac for AC 1015 is now available. > You can download it from our Karameikan site > http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/9037 > or request it for free to our e-Mail Sales Dept.: > brizio@lunet.it > > --------------------- > What's new in version 1.1 > > * Reformatted into .doc (Word 97) and .rtf format > * Typos corrected > * "Shadow Elves", "shadowelves", "shadow elves" thing (hopefully) fixed > * Added new events for Glantri by Andrew Theisen > * Added new NPCs by Andrew Theisen > * Credits given to Shawn Stanley (Gombar and Suma'a) and Steve Wilson. > * Some events for NACE and Alphatia reworded > * Added 1 new event for Alphatia by Herve Musseau > ---------------------- > > Note that this is not the final version yet, as it does not include HW > events, predictions for 1016 and a few other things. > The final deluxe version (with logos and maybe maps) will be ready soon. > > _________________________________ > > Joshuan Gallidox Publishing > publisher of the Mystaran Almanac > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 12:24:55 -0700 From: Joseph Elric Smith Servant to Arioch Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic/The Chronicles of the Unbeliever Well actually I loved the world hated the hero, by the way if any one has access to the old White Dwarves, back when they actually did gaming, they had an article on the books and had ad&d stats for the various creatures, and class. Can't remember the number of the top of my head.Ken > You know, every time I have discussed this book with someone he either > loves it or he hates it. The hate is usually based entirely on this one > scene. I am not saying you are one of those people either! I am just > making an observation... > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 12:33:50 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Who is "evil", and do we need Alignments anyhow? Everything old is new again. www.constantinople.net - ---------- > From: Michael K Jones > To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos > > Anyway, noone has said about the surpression of the Hutaakan (see BX1 Night's > Dark Terror) He must be lawful evil, mind you he was raised that way, does that > make him evil? > I donno which "he" you are talking about (Stefan, I guess), but just on the "philosphical" point: Orcs are "raised evil", but that doesn't make them any less evil. Anyhow, IMO, perhaps in 3rd Edition AD&D they should eliminate the alignment system all together. IMO, in many ways it has become more of impediment to role-playing than an aid to it. Perhaps some kind of modified system where certain things attract bad attention (a la Ravenloft's Power's Checks), other things good attention (for the folks who need to be kept in line via a whip goading them). Lots of games (Traveller, Shadowrun, etc) are able to keep a tone of heroism (in SR a kind of "twisted" heroism to be sure, but it is clear who is fighting for "right" and who is Aztecnology), without alignments in any way whatsoever. People should develop a personality for their character (which may evolve over time), and let that take the place of any Alignment. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 12:34:57 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I don't like Karameikos > > > It just shows that Glantri looks beyond a person's appearance (unless he is > a dwarf, but that's another story :) And you shouldn't assume that just > because someone is a kobold or werewolf they are automatically evil. In > fact, Malachie is good, and Kol and Isidore aren't evil either. > Ahh, the Doge. I like the Doge. He has a nice, flat head, and is short enough you can set your drink on it, and he won't spill a drop. 8-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 13:57:41 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Armies: all "reserves"? In a message dated 98-07-07 17:30:31 EDT, you write: << Ahhh, I see: they were given the best army by far in all of Mystara, de novo in 1011, but that is insufficient to satisfy you. Well, I have no counter-argument in that case.>> well no. the massive army was an obvious tool to secure hw alphatia and its place in hw. but that army was already in existance prior to the sinking. but actually the army size is a non issue for hw alphatia. invading hw alphatia is virtually impossible whether it is garrisoned by regular troops, reservists, or pillow fighting ten year olds. getting troops up there is one thing breaching the skyshield is another. however, imo, the massive reorganization of troops is a sign of the disorganized situation on hw alphatia. imo these troops are as focused to keeping the civil unrest at a nil than defending the continent from outside threats. > > but you do bring about an interesting point to ponder. if there are so many > troops on hw alphatia then just imagine the potential number of troops that > were stranded on the outside world. > I think we've seen most of the survivors (worn down by the war, the divisions are significantly smaller than the "fresh" divisions in Metropolitan Alphatia 1011).>> yes....the remnants of the surface world alphatian armies should dramatically exceed that of hw alphatia. given they had just defeated thyatis who even in defeat had a big land army left, their numbers should exceed that of thyatis. according to pwa1 thyatis had the 2 emperor's cohorts, 11 imperial cohorts, and 60 imperial defender divisions (reservists) but i do agree that the alphatian starting forces should be diminished due to casualties, fatigue, etc. as a combat unit they are depleted and therefore unable to continue the war with alphatia gone. you could probably toss shock (at the sinking) in as another factor. depleted as a fighting force they still represent a large body of displaced persons. their numbers exceed the populations of some kw nations. of course these displaced persons will have to be dispersed within the alphatian holdings and friendly nations. imo this influx of folk should be as much of a problem to the surface world alphatians as the sinking itself. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 14:03:59 -0400 From: Daly Subject: [MYSTARA] - SaveMystara! A while back, Peter Adkinson asked me to ask the list how they felt about having TSR put out more "generic" material with blurbs on adapting the material to specific settings (like Mystara). He wants me to compile everyone's opinions and send it to him as a whole. Think of this as participating in market research! The market is not very supportive now for ANY game material. But if we can show strong support in the initial stages here, I think it will reflect better on our efforts as a whole. Now I know more of you have opinions on this than the few who have responded...so RESPOND!!!!!!! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 13:10:56 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - SaveMystara! > > Now I know more of you have opinions on this than the few who have > responded...so RESPOND!!!!!!! > Well, I'll definately buy anything Mystara-related that they produce, even stuff that I'm bound to hate (I.E. making Stefan Karameikos "World Dictator for Life" and giving him the powers of an Old One). Anything that would add detail to areas where stuff doesn't already exist would get bonus points (I.E., though I bought both Glantri: KoM and Karameikos: KoA, I didn't really *need* them. A gazzeteer-type thing that detailed Hule, or Minea, or some other as-yet undetailed place would be superb). Adventures are always great. IMO, their are enough "beginer" level adventures for Mystara already. Anything in the mid-range to "epic scale" (oooh, like they did with Rod of Seven Parts) would be nice. Even something along the lines of "Return of the Eight," something that let PCs "tie up loose ends" in some fashion would be cool. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 19:21:58 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - SaveMystara! >A while back, Peter Adkinson asked me to ask the list how they felt >about having TSR put out more "generic" material with blurbs on adapting >the material to specific settings (like Mystara). He wants me to >compile everyone's opinions and send it to him as a whole. Think of >this as participating in market research! The market is not very >supportive now for ANY game material. But if we can show strong support >in the initial stages here, I think it will reflect better on our >efforts as a whole. > >Now I know more of you have opinions on this than the few who have >responded...so RESPOND!!!!!!! Well, the problem with generic products is that you cant see your faves involved in their (I'm sure a Realms lover wants drow, a Greyhawk lover would like Greyhawk City / the Eight, and I would like my Mystara stuff... To be truly generic would be difficult I think. I would like in a generic product with "blurb" as described - a bit more than in the back of the Chronomancer book (a paragraph is way too little). Perhaps a page per world - maybe suggestions of replacing NPCs in the generic box with campaign specific NPCs (no stats, just "maybe you could use this guy" sort of stuff, maybe even a little map to go with it. I think a purely generic product wouldnt necessarily sell very well, (Baba Yagas hut is a notable exception - but thats Baba Yaga! Everyone would want that!) because I think those who use a given setting (the majority, IMO) would be put off. They would be "put back on" again if the setting was easily translatable to their beluvved world... Of course, thats a tall order. (filling the product up with blurb of which only a fraction is going to be used by a given buyer - it would be a difficult balance). Speaking for myself, I only look for - old D+D modules, generic add ons (Den of Thieves, Chronomancer, Shaman) and any stuff which can be translated to Mystara fairly easily. I'm tempted to buy that Odyssey box about the island with barbarians vs mages (I was going to have it Alphatia vs Jennites) but I'm put off by the issue of compatability... if it would take much work to sort it out, I might as well write something myself! Difficult to please, me... Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #483 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message.