mystara-digest Wednesday, August 19 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 580 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Jennite independence and Thyatis Re: [MYSTARA] - In defense of... Re: [MYSTARA] - In defense of... was: (Alignments: Who needs 'em Re: [MYSTARA] - In defense of... Re: [MYSTARA] - In defense of... Re: [MYSTARA] - In defense of... was: (Alignments: Who needs 'em Re: [MYSTARA] - In defense of... was: (Alignments: Who needs 'em Re: [MYSTARA] - In defense of... was: (Alignments: Who needs 'em [MYSTARA] - War Machine: Leadership Revision? Re: [MYSTARA] - Jennite independence and Thyatis [MYSTARA] - [IP] Alphaks Re: [MYSTARA] - [IP] Alphaks Re: [MYSTARA] - [IP] Alphaks [MYSTARA] - Many questions ... Re: [MYSTARA] - In defense of... Re: [MYSTARA] - Terrorism, Assassination, and Alignment. Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ... Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 18:32:47 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Jennite independence and Thyatis - -- >well have several reasons to help them. After all, Tarastia, the Jennite Immortal, was once Valentia the >Justiciar, Empress of Thyatis! Which puzzles me. Wasn't the civil war in Jen before the Empire of Thyatis even existed? I know that thats what it says in Legions of Thyatis, but I think the Codex of the Immortals changed it. ? Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 18:34:12 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - In defense of... > Sounds like something out of a David Gemmell book :) >Sorry, who? :( Lol. "Britains best writer of heroic fantasy..." (Or so it says on his books) Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 18:17:50 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - In defense of... was: (Alignments: Who needs 'em > The passive voice ("when a war escalates") is of some utility to your >argument, however, there is always an actor. If Glantri escalates the war, >they ought to be prepaired for the worst. > It is the job of "policy makers" (which is I guess what we are discussing) >to think through the potential ramifications of the actions they take. >Usually this means, to some extent, putting oneself in the other nation's >shoes. IMO, the PCs in the example of leading "Terror Strikes" against >Alphatia should imagine their reaction if someone lead similar strikes >against their nation and people. This is a form of "empathy". > Now, to turn back to the "alignment" related discussion, this form of >"empathetic reasoning" might be one thing that distinguishes "good" >characters and NPCs from "evil" ones. "Good" folk are capable of imagining >themselves in other people's shoes, and applying *some* form of the "Golden >Rule" ("treat others as you would wish to be treated"). > Wicked folk may be so self-centered that they don't go through this >process. They may be otherwise intelligent people, however, and in such a >case they may be able to discern the possibly reaction of an enemy ("if I >do this, then they could do that") even still. This is all about deterrent. Deterrent at its simplest is "you mess us up, with mess u up just as bad (or worse)". CE people are basically cowards, cause they are looking after #1 and tend to grovel before superior firepower, or when they think the may be about to get a one way ticket to the Abyss (Unless they are megalomaniacs, which most CE villains seem to be :) > Turning back again to the "alignment" discussion that was the origin and >purpose of this thread, I see a lot of arguments (now) that are >(essentially) saying that one can choose any of the 3 (or nine) alignments, >but this should not affect behavior in any way, since "anything goes" in >war (and by extension, armed conflict as a whole, which PCs are often >engaged in, and even other forms of conflict, I.E. in the political arena). >Thus, a "Paladin" can torture and murder, so long as it advances the cause >that he has claimed for his own (be it a nation, or religion, or >organization), in a purely pragmatic fashion, since "their are no rules". Ahh. Now this is pretty darn flawed, I reckon. Real world people dont have alignments. In the real world there are no morality rules. I had a similar chat with a friend a while back. If England was involved in a conventional war, and losing badly, do you think the Powers that Be wouldnt use every means in its disposal to stay in the running (ie nukes, which invariably hit civilian targets en masse). The only reason they wouldnt is if they thought that it would only exacerbate the situation. Hence "no rules - bar self preservation". (Speaking of rules - the British Army is now banning land mine usage. Do you think these means that we are going to clear all the mines around the Falkland Islands? No - at least not until some pressure group gets concerned about them. Morality - rubbish. In the National Interest, maybe) "Self preservation" could be interpreted in any number of ways, depending on the situation. It could be NE/CE, if with regard to oneself. When applied in regard to nations it is more complicated, and comes down to motive. > IMO, this is a NE perspective ("I can do anything to advance myself and my >people, there are no real rules, and anyone who proposes any is just trying >to subvert my autonomous will and destiny, and impose their power on my >through such "laws"), if not a CE one. The only "rules" there are are ones you make up yourself, which depends on your own morality. But for fear of offending people on this list, I can think of many, many real world examples where real world nations have blatantly ignored these "rules" in the interests of self preservation. And often justified these acts afterwards, too, thus preserving their "morality". The RW is not so black and white. Rather, it is a dirty shade of grey. However... > I'd love to see someone cogently argue that a Paladin should behave as >some have suggested, even in warfair, and still remain a Paladin, or even >Lawful Good. Well, this is an interesting post - basically real world strategies wouldnt carry as much weight in Mystara because people are more constrained by an alignment... Actually, thats untrue. NATIONS shouldnt really have an alignment, for the above reasons (and I think Mystaran nations dont generally have an alignment, which is good). Individuals have alignment. Probably all this means is that a paladin would make a very poor leader of nation in wartime. :) A good leader would probably be of some neutral alignment, where morality plays a less important role. LN, probably. Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 13:01:34 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - In defense of... > standing around Alexander Platz in the snow as Etienne read out the > declarations of war. Intense stuff. Then nothing for 6 months! Bah, > no siree I wanted stuff to happen *now*! > I think WotI was set up as just a "framework" and the expectation wasn't that *nothing* would happen for 6 months, but that the DM & players would "fill in" the framework with their own events, adventures, etc., similar to what you described. > > So now we have Thyatians losing battle after battle on the Isle of > Dawn, the Glantrian Army in a pathetic state, and as soon as Thyatis > leaves the war, the Glantrians are dead. If you were an Army > Commander in this situation then perhaps you would just sit and do > nothing. > No one would sit and do nothing. However, that doesn't mean you do the first thing that comes to mind (especially if it may make it difficult to gain alliances, etc.) "Terror Strikes" for example may make it harder to get "good" folks like Stefan to look upon Glantri as the "good guy" in the war. *May* is always the operative word. One has to weigh the "odds" of having a positive vs. a negative reaction to whatever endevour you are considering. Don't forget Wendar as a possible ally. And, you know, WotI has some Thyatian possessions rebelling. But Alphatia's distraction with the "general war" could be an "oportunity" for some of their own less-enthusiastic possessions to rebel (I.E. instead of going on "Terror Strikes" into Alphatia, why not "encourage" a revolt in Esterhold? Norwold seems to always vacilate between staying part of Alphatia and going free, Norlan could be "encouraged" to stir up trouble, etc. All perhaps "minor" nicks, but leaves Alphatia as a whole with two choices: divert resources from the "main" war effort in order to "restore control" over colonies, or perhaps loose the colonies, and I.E. the $$$ that the mines of Esterhold are bringing in to support the War Effort, etc. (Plus, a "popular uprising" in a colony has different implications than "Terror Strikes" against the heartland.) Just some thoughts. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 13:09:37 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - In defense of... > > I thought this was on alignments, but if that's what you want this to be > about...... > It originally was, but "topical drift" is common. . . . . . > > Okay, I'll give it a try. The paladin's lawful alignment means he will stay > loyal to his country through this war, and carry out the orders given onto him > by his nation's leaders. His goodly nature manifests whereas he will sacrifice > his life in battle, time and again in order to protect his people and follow > his personal codes to not fail his countrymen in the name of self-defence. > > How's that? > Actually, it kind of disapoints me, because I thought your initial argument was that there were "no rules" and thus "anything goes" in a war. You didn't argue that strikes that targeted "innocent" non-combatants would be "ok" for the Paladin. In fact, your argument over what the Paladin "ought" to do is closer to what I have been arguing than what you and others have been. Part of that is my own fault because my question, though it refered obliquely to "cogently argue that a Paladin should behave as some have suggested, even in warfair" I didn't specify what thouse previous arguments were, since I figured they'd be assumed (to "boil them down" they were: Terror Strikes are ok, their are no rules in war, therefore anything that may achieve victory is acceptable). Or, to put it another way: I'm not sure that it would be possible to argue that a Lawful Good type ought to obey what in the US army would be called an "Unlawful Order", such as an order to kill non combatants. But I *would* like to see someone try. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 13:41:12 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - In defense of... was: (Alignments: Who needs 'em > > Ahh. Now this is pretty darn flawed, I reckon. Real world people dont have > alignments. > Which gets me back to my original position about alignments in general: they are superfluous, unrealistic, and unessissary. However, IMO, that doesn't mean that characters, people, and nations should live without a moral code of any kind. The arguments of "Social Contract" theorists are actually on point in this respect, even if otherwise flawed. Even if you don't assume that their is some higher truth/force/whatever you want to call it that imposes a moral order, social institutions can't live without one. You may, and folks seem to want to, argue that morality doesn't exist. Hobbes may have been wrong about many things, but IMO this sort of position would duplicate his "state of nature" (where life is solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short, because their are no limits on behavior). From this perspective one could say that *all* morality is a result of enlightened self-interest. But that, and Social Contract theory *is* a moral position. In the international arena, things *are* closer to a State of Nature than they are (hopefully) in interpersonal relations. But things aren't an *absolute* State of Nature (if they were, then there would be a lot fewer countries, and probably a great deal fewer people alive right now as well). There *are* "rules" (International Law & Treaties) in the international arena, but just about every actor does seek to subvert them at every oportunity (why? well, strategy guides international relations, and strategy has a logic all it's own.) But it is, by this point, generally agreed to be wrong (at least when the other guy does it, even if the "other guy" is a ally. I.E. France will happly accuse the United States of behaving abominably, while France behaves in the same fashion). Hypocracy, however, as usual, is a signpoint of where virtue lies. > The only "rules" there are are ones you make up yourself, which depends on > your own morality. But for fear of offending people on this list, I can > think of many, many real world examples where real world nations have > blatantly ignored these "rules" in the interests of self preservation. And > often justified these acts afterwards, too, thus preserving their > "morality". > They are hardly applauded for it, however, and even their own (I.E. our own) histories usually white wash such matters rather than being forthright about them. Hypocracy is a great identifier of virtue, as is efforts to re-write events to eliminate certain matters (or lesson their importance) in the historical record. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 21:07:33 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - In defense of... was: (Alignments: Who needs 'em >to want to, argue that morality doesn't exist. Hobbes may have been wrong >about many things, but IMO this sort of position would duplicate his "state >of nature" (where life is solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short, >because their are no limits on behavior). From this perspective one could >say that *all* morality is a result of enlightened self-interest. But that, >and Social Contract theory *is* a moral position. Deep, deep stuff on the MML. Is Hobbes brought up on the Realms list? I dont think so... :) (Hobbes ruled) > In the international arena, things *are* closer to a State of Nature than >they are (hopefully) in interpersonal relations. But things aren't an >*absolute* State of Nature (if they were, then there would be a lot fewer >countries, and probably a great deal fewer people alive right now as well). >There *are* "rules" (International Law & Treaties) in the international >arena, but just about every actor does seek to subvert them at every >oportunity (why? well, strategy guides international relations, and >strategy has a logic all it's own.) But it is, by this point, generally >agreed to be wrong (at least when the other guy does it, even if the "other >guy" is a ally. I.E. France will happly accuse the United States of >behaving abominably, while France behaves in the same fashion). Hypocracy, >however, as usual, is a signpoint of where virtue lies. Lol. Fair enough. With regards to alignment tho - I think that some alignments are probably better suited to being World Leaders. Just like certain personality types would make good leaders IRL. I think extreme good characters are a bit out of place - because the world is a harsh place. On the other hand, CE nutters would be completely inept at running a kingdom (beggaring the nation by making huge platinum statues of themselves, rampant corruption, that sort of thing). Probably a Lawful Evil person would be the ultimate ruler. He would have the interests of his country at heart (thusly obeying these "rules" for the greater good), and yet he would be dynamic and motivated enough to seek loopholes and advance his nation. A LN or LG character would also be a good ruler, but wouldnt have as great a dynamic spark, being tied down by the Law (LN) or Morality (LG). Wow! Jaggar is Lawful Evil! What a guy... Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 16:17:19 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - In defense of... was: (Alignments: Who needs 'em On Mon, 17 Aug 1998, Rob wrote: > Wow! Jaggar is Lawful Evil! What a guy... No, Jaggar is Lawful. :) The good/evil axis in AD&D is in and of itself evil. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 16:25:09 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: [MYSTARA] - War Machine: Leadership Revision? Back on topic. I've always found the War Machine rules useful and fun for running big wars, and even just detailing units as a minor hobby/waste of good time I find enjoyable. However, they have their deficiencies (IMO probably because they are intended to be simple, not hugely complicated like "realistic" wargames). However, one possible improvement which won't over complicate the whole thing is a revision to the Leadership Factor. IMO, it seems a bit strange that all folks of the same experience level are (pretty much) equally good commanders. Even factoring the Int/Wis/Cha bonuses doesn't really change my opinion. For example, if you think that Broderic is the best military genius in Mystaran history, it's hard to diferentiate him from any other 17th level FIghter, and by stats alone (Int 14, W13, Ch15) he doesn't really stand out from the croud (and in fact is "worse" than many other commanders) under this system. Also, the idea that you become a better leader of large numbers of troops just by going up levels seems a bit artificial to me. Instead (and this is just a basic outline), I'd assign a Leadership Ranking of 1-40 (not just 1-36), reflecting not level (though influenced by it), but general aptitude and experience (I.E. some slag who gained all his levels hacking trogs in caverns, but never lead a military unit, wouldn't rate a 36 just because he or she was 36th level). The rating would be affected by stats as before, but also by appropriate skills (leadership, tactics, etc). Also, one might be a good ground force commander, but have a different rating for leading a naval/marine force. Even lower level dudes who have an aptitude and backround that implies military skill might have a high rating, while high level dudes who are just bad military commanders (for whatever reason) would rate low. Similarly, Fighters might be given a bonus, along with Clerics of warlike immortals, while mages* and clerics of less warlike Immortals (I.E. Koryis) would rate lower than their level alone might indicate. Also, computing this Leadership Rating should, IMO, probably be an "ad hoc" affair by the DM, rather than reduced to a set of firm rules. One of the drawbacks of the current War Machine rules is that it's too easy to "game"/min-max once you are familiar with it. The DM could even keep this Leadership Rating a secret, thus lending some indetermanacy to the whole thing (a kind of "Fog of War" rule). *Mages & Clerics, however, may and probably should have more of an effect on the final BR based on their spells alone; more on that later, perhaps. But they shouldn't have to be the commander to have that affect, and in fact one could argue that if you're casting spells all battle you're not using your time to give appropriate orders to your units/troops. One way to do that might be to calculate the final "bonus" to the BFR based not on raw %s, but on total levels. I.E. a force of 126 men, the bulk of them 1st level fighters, but with a 25th level mage (to be obscene about it, and for crude simplicity), the mage would "count" for 25, the 1st level fighters would "count" for 1 each, leading to a total of 150. The mage is thus 16.67% of the total force, and so the unit would get the bonus for "5% or more of the force can cast spells". This probably *shouldn't* be applied to other ratings (I.E. % mounted, % with Missile Weapons, etc), except *perhaps* the % equiped with magical abilities bonus. Thus it does add a little more complexity, since you have to calculate the total levels of the force, essentially to determine only one rating for the unit as a whole (the spell bonus). At any rate, the "gist" of this is to create some way to distinguish between otherwise fairly "bland" unit leaders (a fairly faceless lot in most of the published War Machine stuff). If one has the opinion that Broderic is the greatest military leader in Mystaran history, then one can decide that, for example, Broderic has a "base" LR {Leadership Rating} of 40, +1 for Int, +1 for Wis, +2 for Ch, for a total of 44, thus separating him from the "pack" of circa 20th level Commanders, which you can give a variety of ratings to (some better, some worse, some about the same). Commentary, criticism, and derisive remarks welcomed but not mandatory. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 00:53:55 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Jennite independence and Thyatis >Which puzzles me. Wasn't the civil war in Jen before the Empire of Thyatis >even existed? I know that thats what it says in Legions of Thyatis, but I >think the Codex of the Immortals changed it. > Tarastia was originally Jennite, but she took a mortal identity as Empress Valentia. I believe this is mentioned in the HW boxed set. ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Blue Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 00:56:05 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: [MYSTARA] - [IP] Alphaks Here's the description of Alphaks. I bet James Ruhland secretly worships him :) Alphaks (The Roaring Fiend, Destroyer of Old Alphatia, the Last Emperor) Intermediate Power of the Abyss, CE/Empyreal of Entropy, C PORTFOLIO: Destroying Alphatia, destruction, violence, rage ALIASES: Al-Fakish (Ylaruam), Athaksha (Sind), Veleketer (Hule) DOMAIN: Abyss/170/Doomgaard DATE OF ASCENSION: 750 BC SPONSOR: Thanatos ALLIES: None FOES: Alphatia, Ka, Koryis, Razud, Orcus, Demogorgon, Al-Kalim, Djaea, Kagyar, Set SYMBOL: A skull with horns against a background of fire shaped like a phoenix WAL: CE, NE, CN Alphaks was the last Emperor of Old Alphatia in the time before its destruction. In a debate between the Followers of Air and Fire, Alphaks took the side of the flame wizards, and thus caused a major civil war that devastated Old Alphatia. He was banished and in a couple of centuries attained Immortality. The Church CLERGY: Priests, avengers CAL: CE WEAPONS: Standard, plus dagger, whip, scourge ARMOR: Any MAJOR SPHERES: All, Chaos, Combat, Elemental Fire, Healing (reverse only), Necromantic (reverse only), Summoning, War MINOR SPHERES: GRANTED POWERS: Control undead, backstab as thief of equal level, Cause Light Wounds once per day BONUS PROFS: Fiend Lore DOGMA: Alphatia Must Be Destroyed. These words pretty much sum up Alphaks' dogma. However, he is not averse to destroying other things in the process, and is known in several cultures as a destructive, violent demon. Although Alphaks scored a minor victory when Alphatia sank in 1009 AC, it is nonetheless soured by the fact that he had little to do with it, and that Alphatia was restored in the Hollow World. DAY-TO-DAY ACTIVITIES: Priests and avengers of Alphaks secretly act towards the ultimate goal of Alphatia's destruction. They do this by various minor (or not-so-minor) acts of sabotage and corruption against the Alphatian people. However, Alphaks lacks the skill of careful, long-term planning, and so his followers cannot expect any grand plans from him. In other countries, followers of Alphaks engage in random acts of unthinking destruction. IMPORTANT CEREMONIES/HOLY DAYS: 28th of Kaldmont is notable as the Day of Dread and the day when Alphatia sank beneath the sea. It is also considered to mark the destruction of Old Alphatia. Followers of Alphaks strive to make their acts particularly destructive on this day, in order to properly honor their patron. MAJOR CENTERS OF WORSHIP: Alphaks is secretly follower by some discontented Alphatians and especially rabid Thyatians. Alphaks' major temple is located on a fog-shrouded isle of Alphaks' Volcano, off the western coast of Alphatia. It is maintained by the Black King (CE hm M20) and the Black Queen (CE hf P20). Its fate after the sinking of Alphatia is unknown; it is quite possible that the island survives, and its rulers will continue to work mischief in the remnants of the Alphatian Empire. Alphaks is also known in other countries. He managed to sneak a group of his followers into Glantri; most of them are nosferatu and are led by Prince Morphail of Boldavia. Their goal is to destroy the Alphatian-descended people of the magocracy. The Ylari know Alphaks as Al-Fakish, lord of evil and violence, who demanded human sacrifices to his idols. With the coming of Al-Kalim, his worship has dwindled, although he has helped the Ylari to defeat their Alphatian overlords; he still hopes to gain Ylaruam for himself, and his followers still kidnap people for use as sacrifices. In Sind, Alphaks is known as Athaksha, demon of violence and rage, and patron of rakshasas. And in Hule he is Veleketer, patron of the Chaos Legions and the Holy Berserkers. AFFILIATED ORDERS: The Children of Veleketer is an elite military force in the service of the Master of Hule. It consists solely of avengers of Alphaks (Veleketer), whose skill at unparalleled destruction is such that the Master does not even use them unless he wishes to leave no trace of his target (not even ruins or remains). Alphaks has no other affiliated organizations since his worship is illegal everywhere else. PRIESTLY VESTMENTS: When it is safe to do so, priests of Alphaks wear black robes decorated with horned skull and flame motifs. In their rituals they carry a black leather whip or a scourge, which is often soaked in oil and ignited. Avengers don black armor with a horned skull etched on the breast. ADVENTURING GARB: In most places, adventuring priests of Alphaks do not usually advertise their religion in any way. In Hule, they display a horned skull symbol on their breast. Special Spells Flamewhip (Conjuration, Elemental Fire) Level: 4 Sphere: Elemental Fire Range: 0 Components: V, S, M Duration: 5r+1r/lev Casting Time: 7 Area of Effect: 1 whip Saving Throw: None This spell requires a whip or a scourge as its material component. When it is cast, the whip bursts into flames. It can be used as a weapon or to ignite flammable materials. The priest must make an attack roll with a +2 bonus; the whip does 2d8 points of damage with a successful strike and is considered a +2 magical weapon. The whip can strike a creature up to 30' away, extending and retracting as needed; anyone between the priest and his target can easily sidestep the whip, though. Priests and avengers of Alphaks are immune to the damage and any protection against fire applies for other targets. The flamewhip can be given to other followers of Alphaks, who will be unharmed by holding it if the priest desires. The whip is consumed when the spell ends. ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Blue Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 16:55:18 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [IP] Alphaks > > Here's the description of Alphaks. I bet James Ruhland secretly worships him :) > Nah, I'm too busy revearing Augustus and (for different, but probably obvious, reasons) Eris to waste my time on a looser like Alphaks. 8-)~ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 08:10:36 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [IP] Alphaks >Here's the description of Alphaks. I bet James Ruhland secretly worships him :) > >Alphaks >(The Roaring Fiend, Destroyer of Old Alphatia, the Last Emperor) >Intermediate Power of the Abyss, CE/Empyreal of Entropy, C Neat!!!! Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 09:21:43 +0200 From: "Marc-Antoine GUIDAULT" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ... Hi mystarans First of all i've to say that my campain is (now) set before WotI ... and 'ive question to ask : - - It seems obvious that Karameikos want to be separated from Thyatis (IMO), and it's well known that Thyatis is the mightiest ennemy of Alphatia. Shouldn't Alphaks try to kill him ? After all with Karameikos desapearance Alphatian foes may gain an ally ... - - Where there immortals before Blackmoor ? (I think yes ... Ordana for exemple ...) - - How was created the first immortal ? He can't have other immortal for his petition ! Does he come from an other dimension ? (it's a vicious circle in this case as the first of this dimension should come too from another dimension ... ) - - Does technologie run on Mystara ? (I think to Young Kingdoms where it doesn't ...) The following'll come another day ... Friendly, Marcus Marc-Antoine GUIDAULT ā mag@mel.teamlog.fr http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/7837/jdr.html for French page http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/7837/jdra.html for English one *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 09:05:13 +0000 (GMT) From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - In defense of... I said: >> standing around Alexander Platz in the snow as Etienne read out the >> declarations of war. Intense stuff. Then nothing for 6 months! Bah, >> no siree I wanted stuff to happen *now*! James said: >I think WotI was set up as just a "framework" and the expectation wasn't >that *nothing* would happen for 6 months, but that the DM & players would >"fill in" the framework with their own events, adventures, etc., similar to >what you described. Yup, it covers 6 years in less than what is given to one year in the PWA's, so this time around I realised I'd better add some other events in.. (Ah, to be older and wiser now :) ) Yup, there's some good ideas in there, I'd only add that my players (and their characters!) don't really know much about Alphatia beyond it's huge size...and their intelligence on alphatia aint that good, most of it from very unbiased sources (Thyatians :) ), they probably don't even know of Easterhold bar it's place on a map. (Which of course means they should find out! Send some young whippersnappers out to Alphatia to spy on them..sounds like a job for some lower level PC's....) gordon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 21:01:47 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Terrorism, Assassination, and Alignment. > Yes, I did. My spelling flaw got the worst of me again. > > > His courage is unquestionable, but his wisdom and his abilities were low. > > > Yes, all that may be true. However, "good" doesn't nessisarily mean "high > wisdom and intelligence." (all though thouse are good things to have, they > don't imply superior, or inferior, virtue). > Total morons can be "good" and geniuses can be "evil". of course, one > would hope that true wisdom would lead to a life of virtue, but in D&D the > Wisdom ability score doesn't imply "enlightenment" in the moral sense. > The problem is that before he tried to kill Hitler he was one of the generals leading Hitler's wars. From a cynic point of view you could say that he saw that the war and Germany were lost and tried to save the best for himself. Had he succeeded he might have become the next leader of Germany. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 18:53:43 +1000 From: stan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ... >- It seems obvious that Karameikos want to be separated from Thyatis (IMO), >and it's well known that Thyatis is the mightiest ennemy of Alphatia. >Shouldn't Alphaks try to kill him ? After all with Karameikos desapearance >Alphatian foes may gain an ally ... I don't understand where you're going to here. Karameikos is seperated from Thyatis and it was a reasonably amicable one. >- Where there immortals before Blackmoor ? (I think yes ... Ordana for >exemple ...) Yeah, there was a quite a few during and well before Blackmoor. >- How was created the first immortal ? He can't have other immortal for his >petition ! Does he come from an other dimension ? (it's a vicious circle in >this case as the first of this dimension should come too from another >dimension ... ) All the early immortals forget how they attained immortality. It is believed by one of the time immortals, forget who, that he may have sponsored himself but for the other speheres and for the question in general noone knows. >- Does technologie run on Mystara ? (I think to Young Kingdoms where it >doesn't ...) Well there are Blackmoorian relics still floating about and they are largely explained away in terms of magic. Were you thinking of any technology in particular. stan http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 12:18:12 +0200 From: "Marc-Antoine GUIDAULT" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ... Hi stan, > From: stan > >- It seems obvious that Karameikos want to be separated from Thyatis (IMO), > >and it's well known that Thyatis is the mightiest ennemy of Alphatia. > >Shouldn't Alphaks try to kill him ? After all with Karameikos desapearance > >Alphatian foes may gain an ally ... > I don't understand where you're going to here. Karameikos is seperated from > Thyatis and it was a reasonably amicable one. Karameikos is separated from Thyatis ... not before WotI (i think) as he belongs to Thyatian sphere of influence. More, Karameikos was just a duchy (as many lands of Thyatis). Perhaps Karameikos (the duc) don't need to pay the empire, but their armies are tied (IMO). Wasn't it under thyatian controll before the duc came? It's the same now, no ? Perhaps hidden but the same. In case of war, Karameikos should help Thyatis. But the Duc seems to try to destroy this tacit alliance so as to become truly free from thyatis empire. For exemple, when he came, he give the same right to thyatian than traladarian ... He does'nt act as "colonist". Alphaks is known wanting to destroy Alphatia, so he has to enforce its foes ... so he may wanna unit Karameikan to Thyatis. But the problem is the duc of Karameikos <=> he may try to kill (subjugate) him. Is my thought true or not ? > >- Does technologie run on Mystara ? (I think to Young Kingdoms where it > >doesn't ...) > Well there are Blackmoorian relics still floating about and they are largely > explained away in terms of magic. Were you thinking of any technology in > particular. Ye, for exemple gunpowder, chemical technologies ... How was built things ? Atomic theory or alchemical one? I've a theory (funny one) on the gold creation on Mystara ... but i'll post it when i've done a pretty good English translation of it ;o) . Marc-Antoine GUIDAULT ā mag@mel.teamlog.fr http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/7837 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #580 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, August 19 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 581 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ... Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ... Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ... Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Immortal Ressurection (was:- Iliric) Re: [MYSTARA] - The Primal Order Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Hello (from an Author) Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Hello (from an Author) [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project page Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Hierarchs and stuff. Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Hierarchs and stuff. Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Jennites of the Esterhold Re: [MYSTARA] - cards to dice Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ... [MYSTARA] - Re: Many questions . . . Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Hello (from an Author) Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ... Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ... Re: [MYSTARA] - Time, is on my mind. Re: [MYSTARA] - Time, is on my mind. Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ...Nyx Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ... [MYSTARA] - Sponsoring yourself to immortality Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ...Nyx Re: [MYSTARA] - Time, is on my mind. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 07:07:40 -0400 From: Andrew Toth Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ... At 12:18 PM 8/19/98 +0200, you wrote: >> >- Does technologie run on Mystara ? (I think to Young Kingdoms where it >> >doesn't ...) >> Well there are Blackmoorian relics still floating about and they are >largely >> explained away in terms of magic. Were you thinking of any technology in >> particular. > >Ye, for exemple gunpowder, chemical technologies ... How was built things ? >Atomic theory or alchemical one? I've a theory (funny one) on the gold >creation on Mystara ... but i'll post it when i've done a pretty good >English translation of it ;o) . > Though its not exactly the same as gunpowder, there is smokepowder, so yes I would say chemical technologies work. Maybe not -exactly- the same, it is a whole nother world, afterall. Beyowulf - Jedi Merchant Steely Blue Dragon -==UDIC==- |/ "A wise mercenary picks his battles carefully" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 08:33:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ... At 12:18 PM 8/19/98 +0200, you wrote: > Karameikos is separated from Thyatis ... not before WotI (i think) as he >belongs to Thyatian sphere of influence. More, Karameikos was just a duchy >(as many lands of Thyatis). Perhaps Karameikos (the duc) don't need to pay >the empire, but their armies are tied (IMO). Wasn't it under thyatian >controll before the duc came? It's the same now, no ? Perhaps hidden but >the same. In case of war, Karameikos should help Thyatis. NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO!!! Karameikos is not, and has never been, part of Thyatis. Ever since Stefan Karameikos took over the Traladaran lands, Karameikos has been an independent land. It was called the Grand Duchy of Karameikos to IMPLY that it was still a Thyatian protectorate, in order to dissuade anyone else from trying to annex chunks of the land while Stefan was beginning his rule. He always intended to elevate himself to the title of King when his control over the land was well established. The following are excerpts from GAZ1, pg. 13, 3rd column. "The Emperor...recognized Traladara as the Grand Duchy of Karameikos, a SOVEREIGN REGION under the rule of Stefan Karameikos III>" (Caps mine) "...by defining Karameikos as a duchy, Duke Stefan created the impression...that the duchy was beholden to, and protected by...Thyatis. This was of critical importance in forestalling invasion by outside nations. In spite of the public announcement of the Grand Duchy's autonomy...the common impression in the region's early years was that it was just another duchy belonging to Thyatis." Is everyone clear on this yet? Once Stefan moved in, the area was no longer Thyatian. Traladara was a Thyatian colony. Karameikos never was. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 15:23:08 +0200 From: "Marc-Antoine GUIDAULT" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ... > NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO!!! Karameikos is not, and has never been, part of > Thyatis. Ever since Stefan Karameikos took over the Traladaran lands, > Karameikos has been an independent land. It was called the Grand Duchy of > Karameikos to IMPLY that it was still a Thyatian protectorate, in order to > dissuade anyone else from trying to annex chunks of the land while Stefan > was beginning his rule. So you mean it wasn't a protectorate anymore ? Marc-Antoine GUIDAULT ā mag@mel.teamlog.fr http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/7837 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 07:08:32 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Immortal Ressurection (was:- Iliric) In Limbo, souls is the currency. Immortal souls would totally >imbalance the economy. So the LoC has made a deal with the Entropics whic= >h >allows them to capture any Immortal souls found on Limbo.=20 > >See, its easy to make up excuses so my theories don't conflict 'canon'. I >think I should become a lawyer... > Why deal only with the Entropics? As a group they`re the most likely to break the bargain. Perhaps each of the ruling heirarchs has the same deal. Just thinking aloud again <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 07:14:28 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Primal Order >And by the way..let them screw up Mystara totally if they want to. It >could have very interesting results.. > Actually I`m thinking of using the Mystara birthright rules as created by a well known member of this list along with everything else I can fit in. Of course I`ll change it all into a format I like, But must give credit where its due. so thanks to all on the list who`ve helped me to put a new slant on my spin. That`s basically all of the non lurkers out there so the list is too long to give in total but you all know who you are! <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 07:22:59 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Hello (from an Author) >> Place a pea >> is found from another room, under the matress! OH! OFCOURSE!!! Come on, >what >> experienced player, nevermind a newbie, would not only find the peas but >come >> up with that? > >Hey, don't underestimate the newbies. Experienced players have aquired a >heavy paranoia usually which means that they simply don't try some ideas. >:-) > Also IIrc isn`t that part of one of the great Grimm fairytales most of us were read as kids? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 07:22:59 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Hello (from an Author) >> Place a pea >> is found from another room, under the matress! OH! OFCOURSE!!! Come on, >what >> experienced player, nevermind a newbie, would not only find the peas but >come >> up with that? > >Hey, don't underestimate the newbies. Experienced players have aquired a >heavy paranoia usually which means that they simply don't try some ideas. >:-) > Also IIrc isn`t that part of one of the great Grimm fairytales most of us were read as kids? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 17:29:12 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project page The Immortal Project now has its own page on my website. To look at it, go to my index page and follow the links through Mystara page. There are the updated entries for Al-Kalim and Alphaks, and some other pertinent info. ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Blue Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 07:56:24 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Hierarchs and stuff. >Well, a Full Hierarch is a dude who's capable of keeping multiple balls in >the air at a time. IMO, you don't get to Full Hierarch status without being >able to seem to be everywhere at once (even if "seem" is the operative >word). This would explain why they have so many PP, as they`ll get ALL their followers prayers with just one spell but have to do a lot of scrying to keep on top of thin gs > Full Hierarchs may *seem*, to Mystarans, to be "completely devoted" to >them, but probably dozens of worlds feel that same thing. > IIrc a while ago I joked about each worlds reigning heirarchs going to a convention to play `Accountants & Administrators`TM or some such. Maybe I was actually close to the truth! <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 08:04:43 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Hierarchs and stuff. >I think you might me thinking of the article on other immortals on my >site which I wrote. My musings there are not canon and therefore can be >considered or disregarded by other people as they see fit. > As can, and should be, anything `canon` that you personally don`t like. `Canon` like alignment is a matter of personal choice as to what you accept in you campaign. Anything else is bad because your letting someone else make the decision for you. That way lies BIG trouble! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 08:37:11 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Jennites of the Esterhold >Agreed, but there are few exceptions, and practically >none went to such lengths as you've proposed until >post-Napoleon. I'd rather not see such anachronistic >developments in Mystara unless it goes through a few >more game centuries of advancement at the least. >That does not mean I don't want to see a new >Esterhold . . . > What about `advisors` from some other realm? If said advisors hve charm type magics then maybe their advice is followed. It`s far cheaper to have your enemy fighting someone else. In fact that`s exactly what happens RW. also don`t forget all those magic items created eons ago are usually still in existance in addition to any mad since, else why go tomb robbing (whoops should have said adventuring). Along a similar vain magic could help begin an industrial revolution via spells like con light etc for the streets are well lit and safer also there is no need to stop work when the sun goes down. Aspellcaster rather than paying taxes would illuminate a set amount per annum. Then there`s the use of animated dead for those repetative tasks. A mage could go into business as a sideline to pay for spell research etc and be very competative. Think about it the `evil` necromancer is the one who supplies blankets to the poor etc. That could be fun for the players when they run him off and the rich praise them,because they can begin gouging again, but they are regarded as villains by the poor. Actually I think I`ll use this on a party myself. <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 08:45:16 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - cards to dice IIrc there were some conversion rules from SAGA>AD&D in sage advice in an old issue of Dragon. Sorry but I can`t remember which issue, maybe someone else does? If not here then on `lance list? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 11:38:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ... At 03:23 PM 8/19/98 +0200, you wrote: > >> NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO!!! Karameikos is not, and has never been, part of >> Thyatis. Ever since Stefan Karameikos took over the Traladaran lands, >> Karameikos has been an independent land. It was called the Grand Duchy >of >> Karameikos to IMPLY that it was still a Thyatian protectorate, in order >to >> dissuade anyone else from trying to annex chunks of the land while Stefan >> was beginning his rule. > >So you mean it wasn't a protectorate anymore ? > No. As soon as Stefan went to Traladara, it became the independent nation of Karameikos. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 10:12:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Adam Curtis Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Many questions . . . Marc wrote: >>>- It seems obvious that Karameikos want to be separated from Thyatis (IMO), and it's well known that Thyatis is the mightiest ennemy of Alphatia. Shouldn't Alphaks try to kill him ? After all with Karameikos desapearance Alphatian foes may gain an ally ... And Stan wrote: >> I don't understand where you're going to here. Karameikos is seperated from Thyatis and it was a reasonably amicable one. Marc again: > Karameikos is separated from Thyatis ... not before WotI (i think) as he belongs to Thyatian sphere of influence. More, Karameikos was just a duchy (as many lands of Thyatis). Perhaps Karameikos (the duc) don't need to pay the empire, but their armies are tied (IMO). Wasn't it under thyatian controll before the duc came? It's the same now, no ? Perhaps hidden but the same. In case of war, Karameikos should help Thyatis. And my 2 bits: Before Duke Stefan even claimed Traladara's throne (Traladara was the original name of the region) (this all comes from Gazetteer 1), he ruled the Duchy of Machetos in Thyatis. Traladara had been a province of Thyatis for a century or so, but it'd proved more a drain on Thyatis's treasury than a benefit because Traladara was very underdeveloped. Developing Traladara was more time than the Emperor was willing to spend, so . . . In steps Duke Stefan. In return for forefeiting his ancestral duchy, one of Thyatis' richest, to the Imperial throne, he asked for the *unconditional* rulership of Traladara. Thincol took Stefan up on the offer because: 1. Stefan was a buddy. 2. Machetos was already rich and ripe to strip. 3. Traladara was poor and ripe to dump. So Stefan actually rules Traladara (now Karameikos) as its highest authority *technically* owing allegiance to no one. However, he *deliberately* portrayed himself as a Thyatian vassal to deter any possible invaders since the army he had was plainly inadequate to defend the country from attack. So he took the title "Duke" instead of king, and only elevated the name of his domain to "Grand Duchy" rather than "Kingdom". It remains a popular misconception until after the Wrath of the Immortals that Duke Stefan is a vassal of Thyatis when in fact he isn't. However, Stefan knew it would be a stupid move to act completely independently of Thyatis if he wanted its continued friendship and if he wanted to keep up the "vassal" act. So he seemingly acts like a Thyatian vassal. He's just not *obliged* to do so. And where does Alphaks come in? First of all, remember that he's certainly smart, but he doesn't have the patience to carry out very intricate plots. He perfers direct interference with Alphatia, not messing with her merely potential allies. Second, he probably believes Karameikos is a full vassal of Thyatis just like most of the other mortal government power players. He won't take interest in Karameikos until after the war when a large group of Alphatian wizards set up shop in Specularum. Marc: >>>- Does technologie run on Mystara ? (I think to Young Kingdoms where it doesn't ...) Stan: >> Well there are Blackmoorian relics still floating about and they are largely explained away in terms of magic. Were you thinking of any technology in particular. Marc: >Ye, for exemple gunpowder, chemical technologies ... How was built things ? Atomic theory or alchemical one? I've a theory (funny >one) on the gold creation on Mystara ... but i'll post it when i've done a pretty good English translation of it ;o) . Me: *Officially* there's only so much technology that may be achieved on Mystara. Blackmoor devices caused massive destruction all over the planet, and generally the Immortals of Energy, Matter, and Thought are bent on preventing technology from becoming so prevalent again. The Immortals of Time are usually apathetic on the subject of technology versus magic (Ordana is a likely exception), while the Immortals of Entropy might not like the creation that technology brings, but certainly like Blackmoor Devices (no quicker way to destroy the world than with a big boom). Considering three of five spheres actively opposes technology while none promote it, a cap will likely be placed on advancement at some point. Something called smokepowder (gunpowder with a magical element) already exists in the Savage Coast and has begun profoundly affecting events there. As guns are an extremely revolutionary advancement in technology, I can't see the Immortals standing for further developments in military technology if not for all technology. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 13:38:00 EDT From: BAHUMUTH2@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Hello (from an Author) In a message dated 98-08-19 10:28:03 EDT, you write: << Also IIrc isn`t that part of one of the great Grimm fairytales most of us were read as kids? >> Yeah, that's from a fairy tale, but what happens if the characters (who somehow miraculously saved vs. spells at lv. 1) haven't heard of it? Well, it's a long nap for their friends. =====BAHUMUTH *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 18:34:16 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ... >- It seems obvious that Karameikos want to be separated from Thyatis (IMO), >and it's well known that Thyatis is the mightiest ennemy of Alphatia. >Shouldn't Alphaks try to kill him ? After all with Karameikos desapearance >Alphatian foes may gain an ally ... > Quite possible. Of course, Alphaks would have to kill the whole Karameikos family in order to eliminate possible heirs. But he can't make elaborate plans like that :) >- Where there immortals before Blackmoor ? (I think yes ... Ordana for >exemple ...) > As it happends, I have gathered the various Immortal ascendency dates for my Immortal Project... here are the Immortals before 3000 BC: Arik Asterius Benekander (trapped in the Mirror-Shield) Calitha Starbrow Faunus Garal Glitterlode Great One Hel Ixion Ka Kagyar Khoronus Korotiku Nyx Odin Ordana Protius Rathanos Razud Sinbad (possibly) Terra Thanatos Valerias Verthandi Quite a lot, as you see. >- How was created the first immortal ? He can't have other immortal for his >petition ! Does he come from an other dimension ? (it's a vicious circle in >this case as the first of this dimension should come too from another >dimension ... ) > It is not known. Personally, I think that the Old Ones have either sponsored the first Immortals on their respective paths, or simply elevated them directly. >- Does technologie run on Mystara ? (I think to Young Kingdoms where it >doesn't ...) > I guess it does, since at least the gnomes have some tech, and there are smokepowder guns on the Savage Coast. ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Blue Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 18:37:14 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ... >All the early immortals forget how they attained immortality. It is believed >by one of the time immortals, forget who, that he may have sponsored himself >but for the other speheres and for the question in general noone knows. > This brings an interesting question. Suppose a mortal wants to attain Immortality in the sphere of Time. Can he just declare that he "sponsors himself from the future"? Might be fun. Of course, he'd have to make sure that once he attains Immortality, he actually goes back in time and sponsors himself; or else, he could find himself go *poof* :) ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Blue Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 13:24:54 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Time, is on my mind. . > > > This brings an interesting question. Suppose a mortal wants to attain Immortality > in the sphere of Time. Can he just declare that he "sponsors himself from the > future"? IIRC, one of the Immortals did just that. I can look it up if it becomes important. It may have been one of the significant ones (was it Khronus himself? I can't remember, but I *can* try to find out). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 19:52:14 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Time, is on my mind. >IIRC, one of the Immortals did just that. I can look it up if it becomes >important. It may have been one of the significant ones (was it Khronus >himself? I can't remember, but I *can* try to find out). Yep, it was Khoronus. He was a Blackmoorian "mad scientist" (Doc Brown?) who invented a Time Machine! Who knows - maybe a Mystaran DeLorean magic item can be found somewhere... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 14:20:09 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ...Nyx > Nyx > Why is Nyx an Entropic? She doesn't really believe in destruction, per se, just (widespread) change in order to create the best "living" (or "unliving") environment for her favorite creatures. IMO, that's not much different from the goals of, say, Ilsundal. The "Fellowship of the Star" also favors systematic change (would result in the elimination of magic, and by extension creatures dependant upon it, "fantastic" creatures). Is this so *very* different from the change Nyx would foster (remove light vs remove magic)? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 15:58:25 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ... On Wed, 19 Aug 1998, Marc-Antoine GUIDAULT wrote: > - Where there immortals before Blackmoor ? (I think yes ... Ordana for > exemple ...) > Yes. There have been Immortals since the dawn of time. > petition ! Does he come from an other dimension ? (it's a vicious circle in > this case as the first of this dimension should come too from another > dimension ... ) The first Immortals were petitioned most probably by the race of proto-immortals who became the Old ones. > - Does technologie run on Mystara ? (I think to Young Kingdoms where it > doesn't ...) It sure does! But in a very different form. Wait until the DM's guide to Davania comes out later this year for an explaination :) Max IV - Blackmoor LIVES!! - Or sorta ;) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 06:05:32 +1000 From: stan Subject: [MYSTARA] - Sponsoring yourself to immortality At 18:37 19 08 98 +0300, Aleksei wrote: >>All the early immortals forget how they attained immortality. It is believed >>by one of the time immortals, forget who, that he may have sponsored himself >>but for the other speheres and for the question in general noone knows. >> >This brings an interesting question. Suppose a mortal wants to attain Immortality >in the sphere of Time. Can he just declare that he "sponsors himself from the >future"? Might be fun. Of course, he'd have to make sure that once he attains >Immortality, he actually goes back in time and sponsors himself; or else, he >could find himself go *poof* :) Well now that there are more immortals of time hanging about I assume that such a thing happening would be considerably less - they'd been on the look out for temporal inconsisticies such as this. stan http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 23:05:58 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ...Nyx >Why is Nyx an Entropic? She doesn't really believe in destruction, per se, >just (widespread) change in order to create the best "living" (or >"unliving") environment for her favorite creatures. IMO, that's not much >different from the goals of, say, Ilsundal. The "Fellowship of the Star" >also favors systematic change (would result in the elimination of magic, >and by extension creatures dependant upon it, "fantastic" creatures). Is >this so *very* different from the change Nyx would foster (remove light vs >remove magic)? > She wants to turn everyone into undead... That's pretty entropic IMO :) ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Blue Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 16:12:16 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Time, is on my mind. On Wed, 19 Aug 1998, James Ruhland wrote: > IIRC, one of the Immortals did just that. I can look it up if it becomes > important. It may have been one of the significant ones (was it Khronus > himself? I can't remember, but I *can* try to find out). > It was Khronus. And I think it was a cool story, but for a PC it would be a cop out, since its not quite certain if the big K DID sponsor himself. WotI only said that it made him think it. Max IV - Technomancy, Yes, Chronomancy, well.. kinda.. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #581 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Thursday, August 20 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 582 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ...Nyx Re: [MYSTARA] - Time, is on my mind. [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ...Nyx Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ...Nyx Re: [MYSTARA] - [IP] Alphaks Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ...Nyx Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ...Nyx Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants Re: [MYSTARA] - Old King Kol (was Re: Kol) Re: [MYSTARA] - Kol Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ...Nyx [MYSTARA] - Early Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ...Nyx [MYSTARA] - Need info Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ...Nyx Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ...Nyx Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ...Nyx Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ...Nyx Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ...Nyx Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ...Nyx ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 15:41:15 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ...Nyx > > > She wants to turn everyone into undead... That's pretty entropic IMO :) > Where does it say that she wants to turn everyone into undead? I mean, I understand that a world more suited to the undead would be a bad world for everyone else, but the same could be said about a world without magic vis a vis "fantastic" creatures, but that doesn't mean that the FotS is full of Entropics. "She simply wants to change the multiverse to a condition most other Immortals find abhorrent, where her own favorite races, the undead creatures, would dominate." Now, the next sentance lends some credance to your claim: "She sees the living as children who should one day mature into undead, a day she works hard to bring about." However, accepting that, one will note that this is *less* distructive than the creating a "non-magical" world, since no one is actively eliminated (a la the disapearance/cleansing of Elves, Dwarves, Dragons, etc, etc ad infinatum), folks are "converted", not destroyed. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 15:42:58 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Time, is on my mind. > > > It was Khronus. And I think it was a cool story, but for a PC it would be > a cop out, since its not quite certain if the big K DID sponsor himself. > WotI only said that it made him think it. > Yah, true, but then at least he'd have an automatic theme song ("I'm my own grandpa"). > > Max IV - Technomancy, Yes, Chronomancy, well.. kinda.. > How do you feel about Cybermancy? *shudder* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 00:10:40 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants Hi. Remember the Immortal servants I posted earlier this year? I was thinking that we could include which servants each Immortal prefers to use in the Immortal Project. Here are some for Al-kalim.. Angels Angels are tall genderless humanoid creatures. They are very beautiful and muscular and have a pair of hawklike wings growing from their back. They speak in a melodious voice. Their own language sounds almost like singing. Angels have no shadow and do in fact seem to radiate light. Angels have sworn to serve an Immortal and are always on a mission for their patron. Immortals known to use Angels as servants are Ixion, Khoronus, Asterus and Al-Kalim. Angels never follow Entropic. Should an angel chose to do so he is transformed into a Demon (Fiend). It is said that Blue Imps (Principalities of Glantri) are elevated to the stage of Angels once they perform seven good deeds. In battle an angel vields a flaming sword or a Bow firing flaming arrows. They do not need to eat sleep or breathe. They are immune to energy drain, disease, aging and Immortal level ESP spells. They take damage from Unholy water at the rate of one point per vial. Angels will attack anyone who carries such an utem and destroy them. They can spend TP to gain spellcaster abilities of a 36th level spellcaster as an Immortal can. All their ability scores are determined rolling 1d8+25. In addition they have he following powers: Teleport without error once per day Planeshift twice per day True seeing at will. (Seraph and Archangels only) Cherub Angel Sphere: Any but Entropy Status: Exalted Power Points: 200 Anti-Magic: 25% Armor Class: 0 Hit Dice: 19 Hit Points: 95 Move: 120(40) Flying: 180(60) Attacks: 2 swords Damage: 1d10 N.o. Appearing: 1(1d3) Save as: IM1 Morale: Special Treasure Type: N/A Intelligent: 1d8+17 Alignment: L XP Value: 17,750 (1PP) Cherub angels are recognized by having four hands. Their wings are silvery. Cherub Angels are very friendly and willing to help any needing person. They are usually sent out to protect or rescue someone. If sought out on their Patron's Homeplane, they can be persuaded to assist mortals serving a good cause. Special Powers: Call Other (as an Initiate) Extra attacks Per Round Weapon Mastery (in either Sword or Bow) Turn Undead Seraph Angel Sphere: Any but Entropy Status: Exalted Power Points: 300 Anti-Magic: 25% Armor Class: 0 Hit Dice: 22 Hit Points: 110 Move: 120(40) Flying: 180(60) Attacks: 1 sword or 1 bow Damage: 1d10 N.o. Appearing: 1(1d2) Save as: IM1 Morale: Special Treasure Type: N/A Intelligence: 1d8+17 Alignment: L XP Value: 25,250 (2PP) Seraph Angels are even more beautiful than Cherubs. They have long golden hair and golden wings. They tend to be somewhat removed from mortals. They are sent on specific missions and will not do anything that diverts them from that quest. If sought out on their homeplane, they will be very reluctant to help mortals. Special Powers: Call Other (as an Initiate) Enhanced Reflexes Weapon Mastery (in either Sword or Bow) Turn Undead Archangel Sphere: Any but Entropy Status: Exalted Power Points: 300 Anti-Magic: 25% Armor Class: 0 Hit Dice: 25 Hit Points: 125 Move: 120(40) Flying: 180(60) Attacks: 1 sword, 1 bow Damage: 2d10 N.o. Appearing: 1(1) Save as: IM1 Morale: Special Treasure Type: N/A Intelligence: 1d8+17 Alignment: L XP Value: 33,500 (3PP) Archangels look like Seraphs, but are even more awe inspiring and beautiful. In fact any mortal daring to look directly at an Archangel must make a save vs spells each round or go blind permanently. Archangels are rarely encountered outside their Patron's Homeplane. They have plots and intrigues of their own to manage. Each Archangel has his own very distinct personality so it is impossible to say anything general about their behaviour. Special Powers: Call Other (as an Initiate) Enhanced Reflexes Weapon Mastery (in either Sword or Bow) Turn Undead Haavard R. Faanes(hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 23:54:06 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ...Nyx >> Nyx >> >Why is Nyx an Entropic? She doesn't really believe in destruction, per se, >just (widespread) change in order to create the best "living" (or >"unliving") Primarily because she did the Entropic Quest... Maybe her plans dont further the Sphere of Entropy as well as those of other Entropics, but she is still Entropic. > environment for her favorite creatures. IMO, that's not much >different from the goals of, say, Ilsundal. The "Fellowship of the Star" >also favors systematic change (would result in the elimination of magic, >and by extension creatures dependant upon it, "fantastic" creatures). Is >this so *very* different from the change Nyx would foster (remove light vs >remove magic)? Nyx wants to create an undead world - a world populated by nosferatu. If you believe Van Helsing, this is Not Good. Nyx was a vampire like creature in life, so maybe she doesnt think theres anything evil about her plans, but whether the majority of the Mystaran population agree with it is another matter. I reckon Nyx is of Neutral alignment, incidentally, with respect to good and evil. The only non evil Entropic. Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 23:55:40 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ...Nyx >> She wants to turn everyone into undead... That's pretty entropic IMO :) >> >Where does it say that she wants to turn everyone into undead? WotI, i believe. She considers the undead form to be superior to the living form. (And shes probably right :) Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 01:01:51 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [IP] Alphaks On Wed, 19 Aug 1998, Aleksei Andrievski wrote: > Here's the description of Alphaks. I bet James Ruhland secretly worships him :) > > Alphaks > DOMAIN: Abyss/170/Doomgaard Doomgaard? So you are using the list of planes that I compiled? Cool :) Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 18:07:56 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ...Nyx > > Primarily because she did the Entropic Quest... Maybe her plans dont > further the Sphere of Entropy as well as those of other Entropics, but she > is still Entropic. > That's kind of a cop out, IMO. Almost like saying "TSR says she's Entropic, so she is" (sorry to be blunt about it, but I know I can be blunt with Rob without ticking him off. . .although that never stops me from being blunt anyhow with other folks. 8-)~ > > Nyx wants to create an undead world - a world populated by nosferatu. If > you believe Van Helsing, this is Not Good. > van Helsing? Which Mystaran country is he from? > Nyx was a vampire like > creature in life, so maybe she doesnt think theres anything evil about her > plans, but whether the majority of the Mystaran population agree with it is > another matter. > We're not talking the majority of the Mystaran population, though. I.E. the majority of Elves &tc, if they found out the likely result of the FotS's "Reasurches", they probably would register a "disent" to that as well. But that doesn't mean that the FotS is full of Entropics. > I reckon Nyx is of Neutral alignment, incidentally, with respect to good and > evil. The only non evil Entropic. > I've said it before, and I'll say it again: she's a sweetie. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 18:09:01 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ...Nyx > > WotI, i believe. She considers the undead form to be superior to the living > form. (And shes probably right :) > Hardly something that would make someone an Entropic. Though being "prematurely right" has spelt the doom of many a carrier and friendship, that's true. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 18:12:08 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants > > Angels > The only recomendation I might make is changing the name, to I.E. Seraphim (something that doesn't imply a *direct* link to current religions). I know you used "Seraph" for one version of them, but IMO a Initiate like Al-Kalim probably wouldn't have had the power to create a whole hierarchy of servants. At best he'd have a couple "senior aides". As time goes by, and he gets more potent, then the rest might follow, but probably for now he should have a small (but perhaps "elite") "staff" of such servators. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 19:21:03 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old King Kol (was Re: Kol) > Old King Kol > was a merry ol' soul, > and a merry ol' soul was he. > He called for his pipe > and he called for his bowl > and he called for his fiddler's three. > Sounds like a children's song, right. Unfortunately I don't know english children's songs. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 19:22:10 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Kol > << BTW, hadn#t we come to the agreement that King Kol isn't > a real Glantrian prince anyway? > >> > > Sorry, but why not? Because it's the opinion of the other Glantrian princes... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 18:35:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Adam Curtis Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ...Nyx James Ruhland wrote: <> Nyx and Ilsundal similar? I don't see it. Next . . . Nyx is a product of the Immortals setting before it was revamped in *Codex of the Immortals*. In fact, she (actually a he before her reinvention in *Codex*) was the reigning Hierarch of Entropy. I'm not an expert on the old D&D Immortals rules, but I think Entropy at that time was more about the death of the living rather than the destruction of everything. In fact, I think the Sphere of Entropy was more often called the Sphere of Death awhile ago. All my speculation using the above: Nyx was too known as an Immortal to just dump from the new set of rules. They retooled her some, but her previous devotion to death has remained the same, though focused more into the undead, as well as her sphere affiliation. But she does serve the forces of destruction now regardless. So how can this be justified considering her taste for creation? Well, most Immortals recognize that balance must be maintained between the spheres. Most Entropics, however, don't realize this or just don't care, and hence their drive to tip the balance in their direction. I'd say Nyx, since her supply of test subjects can only come from the forces rising from the other four spheres, is likely among the few Entropics that wants the balance of power maintained. On the other hand, what does she do with all those undead nasties anyway? Something tells me they don't plant daisies >:) <> I have always felt that the old Immortals never had a mortal existance. When the Old Ones created the Multiverse they made planets, stars, water, air, life, mortals and (why not?) Immortals. Ixion, Thanatos, Faunus, Nyx and the rest of them were probably created at the beginning of time. They can't remember being a mortal, not because they are old and senile but because they never were one. Any thoughts? - --- -- --Criptonite *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 19:10:34 PDT From: "Rebbekah Shafer" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ...Nyx > From: James Ruhland > > I reckon Nyx is of Neutral alignment, incidentally, with respect to good > and > > evil. The only non evil Entropic. > > > I've said it before, and I'll say it again: she's a sweetie. Absolutely. Nyx has the good of humanity and the other races in heart! It is just that what she considers to be good is seen as horrific by most. The last time I was able to be a player in a Mystara game I played a priestess of Nyx, and emphasized this quite a bit, almost like the character was a naive version of the Immortal herself. She was very sweet, and in many ways innocent. She was a cute thing, looking much like a bright-eyed village lass. This made the fact that she would occasionally raise the undead and hang out with them all the more appalling to the locals. : ) I will never forget the time I had to give the local hero a good chastising for killing one of my zombies. He really thought he was saving me. : ) Rebbekah "Hel" Shafer ladyhela@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 19:11:59 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Need info Can anyone send me the AD&D stats for the Dusanu and/or Brain Collector, from the Mystara Monstrous Compendium? They'd be much appreciated for a very important project. :) Thanks! - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 21:40:14 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ...Nyx > > But she does serve the forces of destruction now > regardless. So how can this be justified considering > her taste for creation? > That was a good answer, or at least one of the better ones. Howver, IIRC, all Immortals try to advance their Sphere at the expense of the others. > On the other hand, what does she do with all those > undead nasties anyway? Something tells me they don't > plant daisies >:) > And humans eat cows. So? > > The members of "Fellowship of the Star" all had their > own reasons for participating. Not one of them, > especially Rad, believed magic would be eliminated, > Actually, per the "debate" at the begining of WotI, they were presented with this eventuallity, and it's consiquences, but the response was "So?" > > Or the writers just weren't thinking when they wrote > the story, I don't know . . . > I will neither confirm nor deny my agreement or disagreement with that statement. 8-)~ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 23:24:49 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ...Nyx On Wed, 19 Aug 1998, Adam Curtis wrote: > living rather than the destruction of everything. In Nope. Entropy has always been the opposing force of the 4 elemental forces. Entropy = Death, chaos, destruction, the upright Citizen's Brigade, et al. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 23:19:32 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ...Nyx > I will never forget the time I had to give the local hero a good > chastising for killing one of my zombies. He really thought he was > saving me. : ) > LOL. That's the best description of Role Playing of a Nyx follower I've seen yet. Positively perfect 8-). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 07:45:22 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ...Nyx >Hardly something that would make someone an Entropic. Though being >"prematurely right" has spelt the doom of many a carrier and friendship, >that's true. Lol *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 07:48:01 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ...Nyx >> Primarily because she did the Entropic Quest... Maybe her plans dont >> further the Sphere of Entropy as well as those of other Entropics, but >she >> is still Entropic. >> >That's kind of a cop out, IMO. Almost like saying "TSR says she's Entropic, >so she is" (sorry to be blunt about it, but I know I can be blunt with Rob >without ticking him off. . .although that never stops me from being blunt >anyhow with other folks. 8-)~ Lol. Maybe. (According to another Brit I met on the Net, an insult is just a form of a greeting :) >> Nyx wants to create an undead world - a world populated by nosferatu. If >> you believe Van Helsing, this is Not Good. >> >van Helsing? Which Mystaran country is he from? Well, Sergei Wutyla is Mystaras "Van Helsing" (Although of slightly different character :) >We're not talking the majority of the Mystaran population, though. I.E. the >majority of Elves &tc, if they found out the likely result of the FotS's >"Reasurches", they probably would register a "disent" to that as well. But >that doesn't mean that the FotS is full of Entropics. > Well, the Milenians dont like her one little bit. Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 07:51:58 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ...Nyx >Nyx is a product of the Immortals setting before it >was revamped in *Codex of the Immortals*. In fact, >she (actually a he before her reinvention in *Codex*) >was the reigning Hierarch of Entropy. I'm not an >expert on the old D&D Immortals rules, but I think >Entropy at that time was more about the death of the >living rather than the destruction of everything. In >fact, I think the Sphere of Entropy was more often >called the Sphere of Death awhile ago. It was never referred to as the Sphere of Death in the gold books, IIRC, but the modules usually referred to it as the Sphere of Death. >All my speculation using the above: Nyx was too >known as an Immortal to just dump from the new set of >rules. They retooled her some, but her previous >devotion to death has remained the same, though >focused more into the undead, as well as her sphere >affiliation. According to WotI, Nyx has a male avatar (Old Nick) so that other senior Immortals take her seriously. Seems that some of the more stuffier Hierarchs dont take the Morticia Addams form seriously :) Which I thought was quite funny. Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #582 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Thursday, August 20 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 583 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ...Nyx [MYSTARA] - Brain Collector [MYSTARA] - OD&D and Gnomes as a Character Class Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D and Gnomes as a Character Class Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D and Gnomes as a Character Class [MYSTARA] - Midas story ... Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ...Nyx Re: [MYSTARA] - Kol Re(2): Re(2): [MYSTARA] - In defense of... was: (Alignments: Who needs 'em?) Re: [MYSTARA] - Kol & Glantrians Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ...Nyx Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ...Nyx ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 07:53:42 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ...Nyx > The last time I was able to be a player in a Mystara game I played >a priestess of Nyx, and emphasized this quite a bit, almost like the >character was a naive version of the Immortal herself. She was very >sweet, and in many ways innocent. She was a cute thing, looking much >like a bright-eyed village lass. This made the fact that she would >occasionally raise the undead and hang out with them all the more >appalling to the locals. : ) LOL. Now that is a cool character, who will doubtless turn up IMC at some point :) > I will never forget the time I had to give the local hero a good >chastising for killing one of my zombies. He really thought he was >saving me. : ) rofl Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 08:01:07 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Brain Collector Climate/Terrain Any Frequency Very Rare Organisation Solitary Activity Cycle Any Diet Brains Intelligence Very (11-12) Treasure Nil Alignment Chaotic Neutral No. Appearing 1 Armour Class 2 Movement 18 Hit Dice 10 THAC0 11 # Attacks 1 Damage/attack 1d10 (bite) Special Attacks Spells Special Defences Spells Magic Res Nil Size L (10' long) Morale Elite (14) XP Value 2000 Abilities... They speak their own tongue and that of the diaboli. They can also speak and comprehend any language known by any creatures whose brains they have swallowed. Roll d12 to see how many brains it has collected. Each brain can hold a single wizard spell or no higher than 3rd level. (Bit different from D+D! I remember that they could collect Immortal brains and gain Immortal powers...) Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 01:11:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Adam Curtis Subject: [MYSTARA] - OD&D and Gnomes as a Character Class Ah, the most ignored and maligned of the sentient creatures in TSR publications. I've never played a gnome, nor have I ever seen one played by anyone. Makes me wonder why I even did this, but I decided upon looking into making gnomes playable in OD&D terms. My primary source was the *D&D Cyclopedia* itself where it had gnomes listed in the "Monsters" chapter. I then consulted some information in the AD&D PHB, and scanned one last time through the *D&D Cyclopedia* where I found a tiny, obscure passage in the back giving an optional way of creating a gnome PC. Here's the jist of it: - - Gnomes are halflings mechanicswise in all regards excepting the below. - - Gnomes have dwarven saving throws and attack rolls, plus they have the dwarven infravision and detection abilities in place of the halfling hiding ability. - - Gnomes speak gnome, goblin, kobold, and dwarf. My vision of a gnome PC was decidedly different than the above. Here's what I've come up with in the format presented in *D&D Cyclopedia*: *************** Gnome _______________ (minimal detail box) Prime Requisites: Intelligence *and* Dexterity. Other Requisites: Constitution score of at least 9 XP Bonus: 5% for an intelligence score of at least 13, 10% for a dexterity score of 13 *and* an intelligence score of 17. Hit Dice: 1d6 per level + con bonus to 9th level, +2 hit points without con bonus at 10th level. Maximum level: 10, attack rank K Weapons: Any small melee weapon. Any medium melee weapon, though two hands are required to wield it. Shortbow, light crossbow, sling, bola, dart. Gnomes generally perfer shortswords and light crossbows. Armor: Any, shield permitted. Gnomes' generally small sizes require tailor-made or refitted armor. Special Abilities: Fighter maneuvers. Lance attack and set spear at first level (remember weapon used must be either short or medium), fighter combat options at attack rank D (800,000 XP). Automatic 1/2 damage from spells or 1/4 damage from spells with saving throw at attack rank F (1,400,000 XP). Detection ability. -2 to AC when attacked by enemies over man-size (6' and above). Illusion and related spells, illusion spells penalize target's saving throws by +2. _________________ Gnomes are short demihumans, perhaps distant cousins of dwarves as both races share many more characteristics than any two other human/demihuman races. They are slightly smaller than dwarves averaging 3'10" in height and much lighter, less dense than the stocky dwarves. Gnomes average 90-100 pounds and can tred water unlike dwarves. Gnomish skin color ranges from fair to dark brown. Typically gnomes have noses much larger than even the largest human noses and serves as perhaps the easiest way to distinguish visually between a gnome and a dwarf. Gnomes can have light to dark brown eye color, and their hair is white with little exception. A very few gnomes have straw-colored hair. Gnomes mature quickly and usually live 400 years (500 being the upper limit), an age only surpassed by elves. Their longevity is generally attributed to their inherently magical nature. Gnomes are naturally inquisitive creatures that take great delight in mechanics. They also excel at gemcutting and metalworking like their dwarven cousins, but work just as well in other mediums (certainly an elf-like trait). Gnomes do appreciate the work ethic like dwarves but do not let it fully consume their rather long lives. Like elves, gnomes know they will be around for a long time and may let projects remain idle for years at a time. Gnomes can be found living in a wide variety of dwellings ranging from a human-like house to a halfling burrow to an underground mine complex, their diversity in dwelling preference attributed to their highly tolerant nature to different ideas. This tolerance also extends to every other human and demihuman race; gnomes generally like members of any other race and vice versa. Gnomes are similar to both fighters and magic-users. They can use most weapons with skill, wear any type of armor appropriately fitted to their slight frames, and are inherently magical beings giving the typical gnome ease in manipulating magic much like an elf. However, this affinity is particularly strong with illusory magic and weak with other varieties generally limiting the variety of spells they may learn. Spells of a protective, necromantic, or physically damaging nature generally are unattainable for gnomes to use. Gnomes actually do understand all the principles behind such spells if they receive the proper instruction, but their magical nature is devoid of compatibility with such spells making it impossible to cast them (but luckily that leads to gnomish magic damage resistance . . .) Because their fighting skills are not as strong as those of the normal fighter or elf and their magic cannot produce explosive physical effects (fireballs, ice storms, etc.), gnomes utilize a high degree of physical and magical trickery in their fighting tactics. Gnomish families are organized into clans (and I have no idea what gnomes would have for a relic. Any suggestions?). ****** Special Abilities ****** Special Attacks: Gnomes always know the lance attack and set spear maneuvers. Gnomes can cast spells even when in armor. Whenever a gnome uses an illusion spell, the target rolls its saving throw at a +2 penalty (example: a saving throw of 10 becomes a 12). Fighter combat options: Gnomes may not use the disarm maneuver upon giant-sized opponents. Gnomes gain combat options at attack rank D along with the ability to make two attacks per round. Gnomes may make three attacks per round at attack rank J. Special Defenses: Gnomes, though inherently magical like elves, are actually devoid of talent with necromantic and physical attack spells (basically the two types of damage causing spells). At attack rank F, gnomes automatically take 1/2 damage from any spell and take 1/4 damage if the gnome makes a successful saving throw versus spells. Always round down when adjusting damage, but a damaging spell will never do less than 1 point of damage. Due to their short stature and slight frames, gnomes are difficult for large creatures (generally over 6' tall, DM's discretion) to hit. Whenever attacked by a large size creature, a gnome's armor class is effectively lowered by 2 for that attack (example: Laveni Fogelson goes toe to toe with an Ogre in a gladiatorial competition. Laveni's AC is 4. However, as a gnome, Laveni's armor class is effectively a 2 for the lumbering Ogre to hit). Infravision: >From their time spent in tunnels, gnomes have developed infravision good for a 60' range. Languages: In additon to knowing common and alignment languages, gnomes know the gnome, dwarf, goblin, and kobold languages. Detection: As experienced miners, gnomes are almost as good as dwarves in detecting certain properties about any mineshaft, cavern, or edifice. A gnome can detect traps that are part of the construction, sliding walls, sloping corridors, and new construction. A gnome may not automatically use this ability. The gnome must concentrate for one round first (tell the DM the gnome PC is doing so). The DM will secretly roll a 1d8. On a roll of 1 or 2, the gnome gains the information the player sought (but there may be nothing to tell anyway). On any other roll, the gnome does not discern the information requested. OPTIONAL: For gnomes, dwarves, and elves using their detection abilities, they may, without fail, discern the requested information if 1 turn is spent in preparation for the detection check. The time must be spent in the same room (or general area if the room is large or the PC is outside, DM's discretion). However, PCs seldom have ten minutes to spare. Make sure they know that when time is a factor in the adventure. Higher Experience Levels: Gnomes that attain name level (9th) become known as a lord or lady (non-gnomes usually refer to such lords as gnome lords or gnome ladies). Lords are recognized as a clan leader (though usually not the Clan Master, the oldest and wisest member of the clan) capable of giving valuable guidance to others. Lords may build a human-style keep or a dwarf-style citadel (part above ground, part below ground). Depending on the size of the clan and the size of the keep, 40-100% of the clan will move in, maintain, and guard the keep free of charge (though at least basic amenities must be provided) as long as the lord has remained on good terms with the clan. Keep in mind that unless the gnome severs ties with the clan or is the oldest member of the clan, the gnome will only be the Clanholder of the fortification, not both Clanholder and Clan Master. **************** Experience Table **************** Spells/Level Level XP Attack Rank 1 2 3 4 5 1 0 1 - - - - 2 3,000 2 - - - - 3 6,000 2 1 - - - 4 12,000 2 2 - - - 5 24,000 2 2 1 - - 6 48,000 2 2 2 - - 7 95,000 3 2 2 1 - 8 180,000 3 3 2 2 - 9 345,000 3 3 3 2 1 10 500,000 C 3 3 3 3 2 800,000 D* 1,100,000 E 1,400,000 F^^ 1,700,000 G 2,000,000 H 2,300,000 I 2,600,000 J** 2,900,000 K * - Gain fighter combat options. 2 attacks/round possible. **- Three attacks per round possible. ^^- Automatically take half damage from any spell, 1/4 if saving throw versus spell is made. ************* Saving Throws ************* Levels-> 1-3 4-6 7-9 10 Death Ray/Poison 13 9 6 3 Magic Wands 13 9 6 3 Paralysis/Petrify 12 8 5 2 Breath Attack 15 11 7 4 Spell^^ 16 12 8 4 ^^- At attack rank F, automatically take 1/2 damage from any spells, 1/4 damage when saving throw succeeds. ********** Spell List ********** NOTE: As the D&D spell book doesn't differentiate between spell schools, I made an educated guess as to which spells were allowable under the AD&D specialist rules for Illusionists. Spells with a supertext of ^^ denote an illusion spell. All targets of these spells when cast by a gnome make their saves at a +2 penalty (example: a saving throw of 5 becomes a 7). All reversible spells are denoted with a supertext of *. Gnomes are allowed to enchant weapons and armors with plusses and minuses as well as any other spell they are able to cast as long as the gnome has reached at least 9th level. =First Level= =Second Level= =Third Level= Analyze Continual Light* Clairvoyance Charm Person Detect Evil Create Air Detect Magic Detect Invisible Fly Invisibility^^ ESP* Haste* Light* Knock Hold Person* Mirror Image^^ Levitate Infravision Phantasmal Force^^ Locate Object Water Breathing Read Magic Wizard Lock Hallucinatory Sleep Invisibility 10'r^^ Terrain^^ Ventriloquism^^ Massmorph^^ =Fourth Level= =Fifth Level= Charm Monster Conjure Elemental Clothform Contact Outer Plane Confusion Dissolve* Dimension Door Feeblemind Growth of Plants* Hold Monster* Polymorph Other Passwall Polymorph Self Teleport Wizard Eye Woodform Seeming^^(from AD&D PHB) Projected Image^^ Mass Invisibility*^^ Final note on magic: Gnomes likely have illusion spells that no other race has access to. Feel free to add such spells to the above list. Generally gnomes gain access to any illusion spell in question one level before humans or elves. ************************* ************************* Whew! That was alot of typing! Some thoughts on gnomes on Mystara: Gnomes are RARE! They don't even number greater than the Mystaran dwarves who probably don't number more than 2 million souls worldwide. They are also mostly found only in one area, that place being the Old World. If a gnome ventures even a few miles from his or her community, it's likely that less educated humans and others will mistake the gnome for a dwarf (and that's if sed person even knows what a dwarf is!). Gnomes are a curiosity wherever they go. When relating to the common person, gnomes usually receive looks of wonder and careful words. Xenophobic societies, such as the Ethengar and Hattian cultures, are likely to react with fear or outright hostility at the sight of such an odd little fellow. Gnomes are talented in illusions and often can compete with the most accomplished human illusionists. In fact, a gnome would be a shoe in candidate for the Glantrian Secret Craft of Illusion. However . . . As a walking oddity of magic resistance and contrarian magical properties, Glantrian mages, even a second-rate magic-user with some mediocre morality defects, wouldn't hesitate to catch a valuable experimentation specimen within reach. In short, more than any other race, adventuring gnomes inspire extremes in initial reactions on a regular basis. Leaving a crowd in a bar awed can be very useful, but often the novelty of the gnome can make him or her a prime target for all sorts of mischief. Keep anyone playing a gnome PC on his or her toes. So, any thoughts on the above? AC _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:21:53 +0200 (EET DST) From: Anias Pasi Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D and Gnomes as a Character Class Adam curtis wrote: Nice. You might also want to check the description of the Sky Gnomes of Serraine from the Greature Cruzible 1, Top Ballista (or something like that... - -- X Pasi Anias X p.03 - 2533536 X \\|// X X Sammonkatu 28 A 18 X a122286@proffa X (o o) X X 33540 Tampere X .cc.tut.fi X o000--(_)--000o X *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 08:07:08 EDT From: MAESTROPI@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D and Gnomes as a Character Class <> there is an old module call "Earthshaker", that i have lost it over the years, that went into the clan relic. it is the "clock of time", which was a very ornate and complex clock. the clankeepper and his servants had the duty of upkeeping its mechanical abilities, and over the course of the years he and his servants could gather the knowledge they have built up to form the "equation of time". the equation is used to allow for time travel, up to one person and equipment, to travel to any point in time for 24 hours, after which they MUST return by use of the inverse of the equation. if they do not, their entire existance is wiped from time(whatever they may be, including all deeds they have performed). each location in time requires a different equation. somehow, i would assume that they could use the clock to create magic items just as the other relics do, although i would have no clue as to how. you might want to find the module, it goes into gnomish culture a little, and is quite humerous(the clan stronghold resides in a giant mechanical humanoid, for instance) didn't someone mention earthshaker a little while ago, with something to do with godzilla? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 15:59:45 +0200 From: "Marc-Antoine GUIDAULT" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Midas story ... Hi Mystarans ... I've always liked history and especially antiquity (don't know if you use this word ...). I'll present here a short story of how was created gold on Mystara. Beware it's not a canon story but perhaps a ... myth ? It's obviously based on our mythology ... Send remarks, and good Thursday to all ... Midas lack of luck A long time ago, a Thyatian tribe has established on a river shores nammed Pactol. A mage named Midas leaded this community, and was said to be protected by the Immortals. A gnoll tribe approched one day the young city, so the wizard ask the Immortals for something to submit the beadtmen. Thanathos then appeared him, and granted him the power of turning everything into an unknown thing at this time, into gold. Pleased, Midas turned some stones that he gave the beastmen leader, so that he went back with his armie to the near hills. Alas, Midas discovered he was not able to live with his new gift ( he cannot eat as all he touched was turned to gold for exemple ...), that's why he complained to the Immortals. Valerais then appeared him and ask him to plunge his hands in the source of the river, so that the enchantment would disappear. So, Midas went upstream as quickly as he was able to ... The gnoll chieftain wasn't able to contain his men during this time, and, eager for gold, they break on the city to take all it contained. As they didn't find anything (and no gold !), they destroyed it, leaving few survivors. Midas, nearly dead of hunger, arrived at the source, and as he plunged his hands into the clear water, they disappeared. The river then suddenlybecame full of gold nuggets that dispersed threw the world, and Valerias, carriing a hand for herself, hide the other under mountains. Back to his former city, Midas found it devastated, and not to undergo the shame of this disaster, he drew up his own rough-hew funeral before ending his life. Marcus *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 10:21:39 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ...Nyx > > Well, the Milenians dont like her one little bit. > They don't like Vanya, and she doesn't like them. So does that make Vanya an Entropic? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 11:35:07 EDT From: BoBoII@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Kol In a message dated 98-08-19 22:00:52 EDT, you write: << Because it's the opinion of the other Glantrian princes... Jamuga Khan >> You speaking from personal knowledge or from some source material? BoBo II HAOBTMKWIL *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 08:58:00 -0700 From: harold@grid.wizards.com (Harold Johnson) Subject: Re(2): Re(2): [MYSTARA] - In defense of... was: (Alignments: Who needs 'em?) mystara-l@MPGN.COM,Earth writes: >On Fri, 14 Aug 1998, Harold Johnson wrote: > >> mystara-l@MPGN.COM,Earth writes: >> >Do you give xp for good role-playing as suggested in the DMG? If so >then >> >they should also be penalized for poor role-playing... > >> HERE! HERE! HOWEVER, BAD ROLE-PLAYING OFTEN RESULTS IN OTHER NEGATIVES, >> SUCH AS NO EXPERIENCE, NO TREASURE, AND SOMETIMES DEATH. > >I have a problem with this. (Not thinking about the Caps, Harold ;) >In most discussions about good/bad roleplaying there seems to be an idea >that the GM is a better roleplayer that his players. My gaming group has >been the same one since I started gaming about 10 years ago. We all have >about equal experience both as players and as Game Masters. > >I would be very hesitant to penalize any of my friends for 'bad >roleplaying'. In fact it would make me feel like a hypocrite. Yet, I >am often be impressed by my players when they come up with an amazing idea >or invent a really original character. If the PCs do something really >stupid, such as attempting to kill the king without havi ng a good plan, >they will have to face the consequences. Death might be around the >corner..but I would never give one of my players fewer experience points >as a punnishment. Maybe, I am so sceptical towards this because it has >been done to me, over a disagreement of what the CG alignment should be >like. (I played it like dirty harry ;) > >sincerely, >Havard > * True enough. I don't think the rewarding or penalizing of Experience Points is a hard and fast rule that the DM or the players can wield to force certain actions in the game. Experience rewards should be commensurate with the DM's style and players entertainment value. I, for one, am particularly stingy with rewards. I ran a campaign for five years and the heroes progressed only five (5) levels, but no one complained because they were focussed on the adventure and story and not on counting coup. If players are unlucky or slow to pick up on what a DM thinks are obvious clues, the DM should consider leniency. I'm slow to kill characters, though I do have them suffer setbacks when they fail to perform heroically. In D&D, the rule is that the DM should see the game rules as tools, not as dictates that must be followed without considering if the players are having fun. Harold > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 11:04:53 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Kol & Glantrians > >> > You speaking from personal knowledge or from some source material? > They pretty much hold him in contempt; you can derive that from implications (and a few direct statements) in the canon. IMO, the feeling should be mutual, and at any rate their is little love lost in the mutual relations between most of the Glantrian Princes. They stick together (for the most part) against non-Glantrians, but otherwise hold each other (largely, with some exceptions) in "a minimum of high regard." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:51:19 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ...Nyx >I mean, I understand that a world more suited to the undead would be a bad >world for everyone else, but the same could be said about a world without >magic vis a vis "fantastic" creatures, but that doesn't mean that the FotS >is full of Entropics. > It's not the fact that she wants to turn people into undead, it's the fact that she wants to turn people into *undead* that makes her an Entropic :) Since undead are connected with Entropy... ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Blue Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:52:36 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants >Remember the Immortal servants I posted earlier this year? I was thinking >that we could include which servants each Immortal prefers to use in the >Immortal Project. Here are some for Al-kalim.. > Looks great Håvard! Maybe you'd like to do similar writeups for each Immortal after I detail him? :) ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Blue Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 19:02:13 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ...Nyx >van Helsing? Which Mystaran country is he from? > Serraine, I believe. Erik Helsing aka Igor Gorevitch-Woszlany. ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Blue Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #583 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, August 21 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 584 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - [IP] Alphaks Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ...Nyx Re: [MYSTARA] - [IP] Alphaks Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D and Gnomes as a Character Class Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ...Nyx Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ...Nyx Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ...Nyx [MYSTARA] - [GANDERG@tc.gc.ca: MML Working Groups (v.2.1)] Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D and Gnomes as a Character Class Re: [MYSTARA] - Need info Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D and Gnomes as a Character Class Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D and Gnomes as a Character Class Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D and Gnomes as a Character Class Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D and Gnomes as a Character Class Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D and Gnomes as a Character Class Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D and Gnomes as a Character Class Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:54:57 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [IP] Alphaks Håvard wrote: >Doomgaard? So you are using the list of planes that I compiled? Cool :) Yes, I do (for many Immortals). But I thought the list was signed "Mystaros"... Or is Mystaros actually your alter ego? :) ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Blue Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 18:04:21 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ...Nyx >> Well, the Milenians dont like her one little bit. >> >They don't like Vanya, and she doesn't like them. So does that make Vanya >an Entropic? Lots of people dont like Vanya. (Or Ixion, or Rad, or just about anyone really) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 19:34:15 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [IP] Alphaks On Thu, 20 Aug 1998, Aleksei Andrievski wrote: > Håvard wrote: > >Doomgaard? So you are using the list of planes that I compiled? Cool :) > Yes, I do (for many Immortals). But I thought the list was signed "Mystaros"... Or is Mystaros actually your alter ego? :) Mystaros made up many of the planes. Including Doomgaard. However, the complete list of planes found at my homepage was compiled by me. :) Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:38:26 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D and Gnomes as a Character Class On Thu, 20 Aug 1998, Adam Curtis wrote: > Ah, the most ignored and maligned of the sentient > creatures in TSR publications. I've never played a > gnome, nor have I ever seen one played by anyone. > Makes me wonder why I even did this, but I decided > upon looking into making gnomes playable in OD&D terms. PC2 has Gnomish PC's availible. Unfortunately I dunno about how well TSR would like it if I copied the rules on here. As for thoughts on your work, I don't mean to decry it, but there is a LOT of problems with it in comparison to the actual gnomish mystaran culture/race. Max IV - Gnome Lover. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:41:23 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ...Nyx On Thu, 20 Aug 1998, James Ruhland wrote: > > Well, the Milenians dont like her one little bit. > > > They don't like Vanya, and she doesn't like them. So does that make Vanya > an Entropic? nononononono! Darnit, Entropy != Evil. Just because a particular immortal is reviled in one culture, doesn't mean that culture perceives him/her to be an entropic. Even Energy or Matter immortals can be Chaotic. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:44:19 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ...Nyx > > > It's not the fact that she wants to turn people into undead, it's the fact that she wants to turn people into *undead* that makes her an Entropic :) > > Since undead are connected with Entropy... > That's gotta be for aesthetics more than anything else. After all, let's consider the actual attributes of the undead, verses the living: LIVING UNDEAD Age Ageless Easily Damaged Hard to Destroy Don't Regenerate Many Regenerate Prolonged Childhood Ready to go right from generation Kill each other often Kill living often. Suffer from Boils Immune to Disease Living creatures are the perfect vanguards and expression of entropy: their existance is precarious and temporary, they grow old and die, most are "soft targets", easily subject to damage and disease. A world of undead, otoh, would be a *setback* for Entropy: undead are ageless, they are very durable, many are very hard to damage and/or destroy, and a reasonable number have the ability to regenerate what damage they do suffer. (See, I do revere Eris: I love handing out Apples of Discord). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:45:55 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ...Nyx > > Darnit, Entropy != Evil. Just because a particular immortal is reviled in > one culture, doesn't mean that culture perceives him/her to be an > entropic. > > Even Energy or Matter immortals can be Chaotic. > My point exactly. It was someone else who seemed to be implying that because Milenians didn't like Nyx, then Nyx=Entropic, Q.E.D. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 17:37:44 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - [GANDERG@tc.gc.ca: MML Working Groups (v.2.1)] ================= Begin forwarded message ================= From: GANDERG@tc.gc.ca ("Gander, Geoff") To: au998@freenet.carleton.ca ("'Me'"), shawn@leme.anu.edu.au ("'Shawn'") Subject: MML Working Groups (v.2.1) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 16:37:28 -0400 The Working Groups of the Mystara Mailing List (v 2.1) compiled by Geoff Gander, with help from Hervé Musseau, Fabrizio Paoli, and Marco Dalmonte Mystaran Net Almanac Continuing where the Poor Wizard's Almanacs and Joshuan's Almanac left off, a small group of dedicated Mystara fans has kept the idea of this publication alive. Each year an issue is released, detailling the various events that happen in Mystara for a given year, as well as providing details on new nations, and important developments. If you wish to take part in this production, feel free to contact the following people for more information: Alphatian Sea: Hervé Musseau (herve@hotmail.com) Hollow World: Thorfinn Tait (Rathanos@velvia,demon.co.uk), or Hervé Musseau (herve@hotmail.com) Isle of Dawn: Andrew Theisen (jsmill@imap1.asu.edu), or Herve Musseau (herve@hotmail.com) Jungle Coast: Geoff Gander (ganderg@tc.gc.ca) Norwold: Marco Dalmonte (mdalmonte@hotmail.com), or Hervé Musseau (herve@hotmail.com) Wendar/Denagoth: Marco Dalmonte (mdalmonte@hotmail.com) Old World: Michael Roy (mroy@cyberus.ca) (Heldannic Knights): Geoff Gander (ganderg@tc.gc.ca) (Shadow Elves): Fabrizio Paoli (brizio@lunet.it) (Goblinoids): Andrew Theisen (jsmill@imap1.asu.edu) (Atruaghin): Andrew Theisen (jsmill@imap1.asu.edu) Savage Coast: Michael Roy (mroy@cyberus.ca) (City-States): Fabrizio Paoli (brizio@lunet.it) (Hule): Fabrizio Paoli (brizio@lunet.it) (Yavdlom): Fabrizio Paoli (brizio@lunet.it) and Geoff Gander (ganderg@tc.gc.ca) (Gombar/Suma'a) Shawn Stanley (shawn@leme.anu.edu.au) Economica Fabrizio Paoli (brizio@lunet.it) MOrient Project Although the continent of Brun on Mystara has received a lot of detail, whole sections of this world have not. This group is developing oriental cultures, with a distinctly Mystaran flavour, for the mysterious continent of Skothar, the great eastern continent. If you want to participate in developing new cultures and ideas that break the stereotypes, why not contact Joe Duncan (jduncan2@chat.carleton.ca)? NPC Gallery Tired of reusing the same old NPCs? Ever wish you had a vast collection of NPCs available at your fingertips to add extra depth to your campaign? Why not contact Jenni Merrifield (strawberry@jamm.com)? She has a collection of various NPCs, from all walks of life, that you can easily insert in your own campaigns. All of these have been contributed by fellow list members. If you have some NPCs of your own you'd like to share, why not send them to her? Cynidicea Working Group B4 - The Lost City. This classic adventure details the lost, underground city of Cynidicea, a realm of bizarre inhabitants and fierce otherworldly beings. The members of this group feel that much more can be had from this scenario than what is already written, and they are working to both add extra details, and expand the adventure into a full-scale campaign setting for all levels of play. Interested? Email Geoff Gander (au998@freenet.carleton.ca) for more information. SaveMystara Working Group Although Mystara products are no longer produced by TSR, some members of this list are dedicated to bringing it back. Using petitions, home-written adventures to be published by the RPGA, and other means, these people are diligently trying to get our favourite campaign world published once again. Want to join in on the action? We can always use an extra hand! Contact Jeff Daly (jdaly@friend.ly.net) for more information. Alphatian Gazetteers Alphatia, empire of intrigue and mystery. In all of TSR's official products concerning this vast empire, very little information was actually given concerning what goes on in the various kingdoms that comprise this great empire, or even what these kingdoms are like. This group is trying to change this by writing up short gazetteers describing the various cities of each of these kingdoms, major political players, as well as a general feel for what each of these realms is like. There's plenty of room for your imagination here, and there is so much left to do! Contact Jeff Daly (jdaly@friend.ly.net) or Geoff Gander (au998@freenet.carleton.ca) for more information. Ancient Mystara Although "official" sources say the first great civilisation was Blackmoor, some sages realise that this is not so. Great empires and heroes flourished, and fell, in a time long before the men of Blackmoor placed stone upon stone. What remains of these ancient realms today? Do the obsidian spires of ancient Y'hog still rise high, somewhere beneath the seas, do the men of fabled Lhomarr still live upon this world, and what of the great artifacts of yore that were lost in those ancient times? If you are interested in adding more detail to a Mystara of long ago, or of creating remnants of that time for the present day, send an email to Geoff Gander (au998@freenet.carleton.ca), Matt Levy (mlevy@orion.oac.uci.edu), or James Mishler (mystaros@aol.com). Davania Team Davania, the forgotten continent. This phrase no longer applies, as year by year more explorers bravely head south, probing deeper into forgotten jungles and hellish deserts, uncovering remnants of empires long dead, and those still living. These are realms beyond the knowledge of even the brightest sages, different from those of the "Known World." If you are interested in developing new cultures or ideas for this fascinating continent, contact Geoff Gander (au998@freenet.carleton.ca) for more information. Underocean What lurks under the seas of Mystara? Far more than a realm of the deeps, Underocean is home to a vast range of interesting races and cultures. Witness the turmoil as the kingdoms of the merrow and the tritons fight off insidious hordes of devilfish, observe the aquatic elves fashion wonders only dreamed of by land dwellers. While the lands of Mystara are vast, those lying under the sea are still greater. Join Aaron Nowack (anowack@juno.com) as he plumbs the depths on the world. If you are interested in helping out, drop him an email... Mystaraspace Project Does Mystara have its own Green Men? This group of discussion is trying to find out! Join it to flesh out the planets and the secrets of Mystara's Voidspace, linking it with other canonical and new sources for both Mystara and other TSR settings. Knowledge of Spelljammer is good but not required: what you should bring here is Fantasy and Unlimited Imagination! Contact Marco Dalmonte (mdalmonte@hotmail.com). Cyclopaedia Mystara The goal is to develop a comprehensive encyclopaedia of the world, consisting of articles indexed alphabetically and topically. Topics will range from continents and empires down to villages, NPCs, and magic items. Hopefully much of the existing information created by the MML can be incorporated, and the encyclopaedia will also link to individual websites to provide contrasting viewpoints on various subjects. Finally, it will provide extensive references to canon material published by TSR, as well as fan-created articles, so will serve as a one-stop index for all information related to a given topic. We have also been discussing the possibility of "donating" the finished work to TSR for reference and possible inclusion in future Mystara products. We'd appreciate your discussion here on the list; we are still working out the format, content, and legal details. Also if anyone wants to volunteer to coordinate a particular topic, or wants to contribute articles, please contact Mike Harvey (bing@iccom.com). Hollow World References This group aims to provide additional detail on the various cultures of the Hollow World, in the form of gazetteer reference documents. Basic socio-cultural aspects of each people will be covered, as well as NPCs, and other interesting information to aid the DM in fleshing out these hitherto undetailled areas. If you are interested in contributing to this group as a writer, or just helping out, contact Mischa Gelman (megst19+@pitt.edu). The Immortal Project The Immortal Project is aiming to describe all Immortals of Mystara in the format of Faiths & Avatars - a detailled description which tells briefly about each Immortal's priesthood, granted spells and powers, dogma, rituals, church activities, worshipper bases, etc. Contact Aleksei Andrievski (solmyr@kolumbus.fi) for more information. - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 17:41:05 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D and Gnomes as a Character Class > >Adam curtis wrote: > > Pasi Anias wrote: >Nice. You might also want to check the description of the Sky Gnomes of >Serraine from the Greature Cruzible 1, Top Ballista (or something like >that... Yes, PC2 (Top Ballista) includes the experience/level progression for normal gnomes as well as skygnomes. Normal gnomes get certain special abilities as they rise in levels. Anyone willing to note these down? Aside from that, your writeup of the gnomish race is very good! One side point, though: There could very well be gnomish nations of considerable size elsehwere on the planet. I'm not talking about Brun or the Old World, but Davania. This is a large continent that could easily have a few gnomish kingdoms nestled deep within. What say you, Ethan? :) Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 00:04:45 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Need info On Wed, 19 Aug 1998, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote: > Can anyone send me the AD&D stats for the Dusanu and/or Brain Collector, from > the Mystara Monstrous Compendium? They'd be much appreciated for a very > important project. :) Climate/Terrain: Any temperate to tropical Frequency: Very Rare Organization: pack Activity Cyle: Night Diet: Scavenger Intelligence: Average (10) Treasure: W Alignment: CN No App: 1d3+1 AC: 4 MV: 12 HD: 9+2 Thaco: 11 NoAtt: 2 DMG: 1d8 (claw) 1d8(claw) Spec attack: Spores Spec defence: see below Mag resist: Nil Size: M (6' tall) Morale: Champion (15) XP 3000 Anyone hit must Save vs poison or be infected. Nonmagical items inflict only 1 point of damage due to spungy body. Infection does not show untill after 1d3+1 days. Cure wounds will remove the infection. After this time the infected must make a save each day or die. After another 1d3 days the body is animated into a new baddie. Whoops, I probably shouldn't have sent this to the list... :( Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 20:51:13 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D and Gnomes as a Character Class On Thu, 20 Aug 1998, Geoff Gander wrote: > World, but Davania. This is a large continent that could easily have a > few gnomish kingdoms nestled deep within. What say you, Ethan? :) haha! I have been found out. PC2 never really said where Serraine lifted off from, it only insinuated Brun. Also, Garal Glitterlode put Gnomes all over Mystara, and not just in Rockhome! And thus that opens up a whole realm of possibilities, since it is well known that a certain Glimreen Gemeye graduated from a *certain* institute of Higher Learning. I have ideas where the Skygnomes came from. ;) But we can save that for my next project! Ethan aka Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 23:52:15 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D and Gnomes as a Character Class In a message dated 98-08-20 21:04:44 EDT, eand@WPI.EDU writes: << > World, but Davania. This is a large continent that could easily have a > few gnomish kingdoms nestled deep within. What say you, Ethan? :) haha! I have been found out. PC2 never really said where Serraine lifted off from, it only insinuated Brun. Also, Garal Glitterlode put Gnomes all over Mystara, and not just in Rockhome! And thus that opens up a whole realm of possibilities, since it is well known that a certain Glimreen Gemeye graduated from a *certain* institute of Higher Learning. I have ideas where the Skygnomes came from. ;) But we can save that for my next project >> yes gnomes aplenty on davania. good gnomes, bad gnomes, stereotypical gnomes of the tinker variety. one such variety will find their tinkering their downfall. you just do not mess with other people's technology muh...ha...ha. oh yes surprises aplenty in davania. muh...ha...ha. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 21:17:44 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D and Gnomes as a Character Class On Thu, 20 Aug 1998 MAESTROPI@AOL.COM wrote: > didn't someone mention earthshaker a little while ago, with something to do > with godzilla? Don't recall, but maybe an Earthshaker could go toe to toe with the Alphatian Behemoth? (Or is that thing miles wide? Maybe not, then...) - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 00:29:55 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D and Gnomes as a Character Class In a message dated 1998-08-20 13:53:59 Eastern Daylight Time, eand@WPI.EDU writes: > As for thoughts on your work, I don't mean to decry it, but there is a LOT > of problems with it in comparison to the actual gnomish mystaran > culture/race. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it -- while it could use some fine tuning to make it more compatible with other sources, I think it would make an excellent basis for a "gnome illusionist" class, as a possible alternative to the standard "tinker" gnome described in PC 2. Another idea to consider -- the gnomish subraces seem to be strongly tied in with the various elements. PC 2 gives the earth gnomes of Karameikos and the sky gnomes of Serraine. A genius whose name escapes me for the moment wrote up a fine description of an undersea campaign called "Fathoms", which included an aquatic gnome race. This would leave fire as the only element unrepresented -- maybe those "ice gnomes" are able to survive in such cold climates because of their inherent fire based powers? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 00:42:05 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D and Gnomes as a Character Class In a message dated 98-08-21 00:30:47 EDT, you write: << > didn't someone mention earthshaker a little while ago, with something to do > with godzilla? Don't recall, but maybe an Earthshaker could go toe to toe with the Alphatian Behemoth? (Or is that thing miles wide? Maybe not, then...) >> nah the behemoth is pretty huge and waterborne to boot. an earthshaker would sink like a rock and bust its rivets. some time back i posted a mail on the behemoth and its history. perhaps i should dig it out and repost. i think it is somewhere on another pc. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 00:47:43 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D and Gnomes as a Character Class On Fri, 21 Aug 1998 Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: > I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it -- while it could use some fine tuning to Maybe I did dismiss it rather quickly, there was a lot of work involved with the post, that i kind of brushed off. > those "ice gnomes" are able to survive in such cold climates because > of their inherent fire based powers? Hmm. Interesting, since Ice Gnomes are mapped out on the migrations charts, as leaving the far south of Vulcania about 2,500 BC. These gnomes are right near the citadel, so I'm thinking Glimreen may have been of their stock. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 09:52:07 -0400 From: bcourtemanch@merrimack.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants At 12:10 AM 8/20/98 +0200, you wrote: >Hi. > >Remember the Immortal servants I posted earlier this year? I was thinking >that we could include which servants each Immortal prefers to use in the >Immortal Project. Here are some for Al-kalim.. > >Angels > >Angels are tall genderless humanoid creatures. They are very beautiful and >muscular and have a pair of hawklike wings growing from their back. They >speak in a melodious voice. Their own language sounds almost like singing. >Angels have no shadow and do in fact seem to radiate light. Angels have >sworn to serve an Immortal and are always on a mission for their patron. >Immortals known to use Angels as servants are Ixion, Khoronus, Asterus and >Al-Kalim. Angels never follow Entropic. Should an angel chose to do so he >is transformed into a Demon (Fiend). >It is said that Blue Imps (Principalities of Glantri) are elevated to the >stage of Angels once they perform seven good deeds. In battle an angel >vields a flaming sword or a Bow firing flaming arrows. > >They do not need to eat sleep or breathe. They are immune to energy drain, >disease, aging and Immortal level ESP spells. They take damage from Unholy >water at the rate of one point per vial. Angels will attack anyone who >carries such an utem and destroy them. They can spend TP to gain >spellcaster abilities of a 36th level spellcaster as an Immortal can. >All their ability scores are determined rolling 1d8+25. > >In addition they have he following powers: >Teleport without error once per day >Planeshift twice per day >True seeing at will. (Seraph and Archangels only) > >Cherub Angel > >Sphere: Any but Entropy >Status: Exalted >Power Points: 200 >Anti-Magic: 25% >Armor Class: 0 >Hit Dice: 19 >Hit Points: 95 >Move: 120(40) >Flying: 180(60) >Attacks: 2 swords >Damage: 1d10 >N.o. Appearing: 1(1d3) >Save as: IM1 >Morale: Special >Treasure Type: N/A >Intelligent: 1d8+17 >Alignment: L >XP Value: 17,750 (1PP) > >Cherub angels are recognized by having four hands. Their wings are >silvery. Cherub Angels are very friendly and willing to help any needing >person. They are usually sent out to protect or rescue someone. If sought >out on their Patron's Homeplane, they can be persuaded to assist mortals >serving a good cause. > >Special Powers: >Call Other (as an Initiate) >Extra attacks Per Round >Weapon Mastery (in either Sword or Bow) >Turn Undead > >Seraph Angel > >Sphere: Any but Entropy >Status: Exalted >Power Points: 300 >Anti-Magic: 25% >Armor Class: 0 >Hit Dice: 22 >Hit Points: 110 >Move: 120(40) >Flying: 180(60) >Attacks: 1 sword or 1 bow >Damage: 1d10 >N.o. Appearing: 1(1d2) >Save as: IM1 >Morale: Special >Treasure Type: N/A >Intelligence: 1d8+17 >Alignment: L >XP Value: 25,250 (2PP) > >Seraph Angels are even more beautiful than Cherubs. They have long golden >hair and golden wings. They tend to be somewhat removed from mortals. They >are sent on specific missions and will not do anything that diverts them >from that quest. If sought out on their homeplane, they will be very >reluctant to help mortals. > >Special Powers: >Call Other (as an Initiate) >Enhanced Reflexes >Weapon Mastery (in either Sword or Bow) >Turn Undead > >Archangel > >Sphere: Any but Entropy >Status: Exalted >Power Points: 300 >Anti-Magic: 25% >Armor Class: 0 >Hit Dice: 25 >Hit Points: 125 >Move: 120(40) >Flying: 180(60) >Attacks: 1 sword, 1 bow >Damage: 2d10 >N.o. Appearing: 1(1) >Save as: IM1 >Morale: Special >Treasure Type: N/A >Intelligence: 1d8+17 >Alignment: L >XP Value: 33,500 (3PP) > >Archangels look like Seraphs, but are even more awe inspiring and >beautiful. In fact any mortal daring to look directly at an Archangel must >make a save vs spells each round or go blind permanently. Archangels are >rarely encountered outside their Patron's Homeplane. They have plots and >intrigues of their own to manage. Each Archangel has his own very distinct >personality so it is impossible to say anything general about their >behaviour. > >Special Powers: >Call Other (as an Initiate) >Enhanced Reflexes >Weapon Mastery (in either Sword or Bow) >Turn Undead > >Haavard R. Faanes(hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) >http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc > >"Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ----- >Return-Path: >Received: from phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (206.66.87.5) by chasm.merrimack.edu > (MX V5.0) with ESMTP; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 18:15:16 -0400 >Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM > (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA13048; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 18:11:34 - -0400 >Received: by lists.MPGN.COM (bulk_mailer v1.5); Wed, 19 Aug 1998 18:11:14 - -0400 >Received: (from majordom@localhost) by phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) > id SAA13017 for mystara-l-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 18:11:07 -0400 >Received: from Mithril.MPGN.COM (Mithril.MPGN.COM [206.66.87.8]) by > phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA13010 for > ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 18:10:57 - -0400 >Received: from sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no (sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no [129.241.210.67]) > by Mithril.MPGN.COM (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id SAA17724 for > ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 18:10:54 -0400 >Received: from tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no ([129.241.210.70] HELO tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no > ident: hoc [port 34362]) by sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no with SMTP id > <49271-20374>; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 00:10:44 +0200 > Hi Havard - Well you certainly have done your homework concerning angels, cherubs, and the like! I only scanned this e-mail to the list, but I think DnD has already published a very angel-like creature, servant to Lawful immortals: Archons (spelled right?). I believe they are featured in the Creature Catalog. I used one once to act as a messenger of the Great One to my player-characters. Still, your work on the angels is thorough and impressive. - - Mograg > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #584 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Saturday, August 22 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 585 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants Re: [MYSTARA] - Kol Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants [MYSTARA] - Use of Poison ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 19:16:37 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants On Thu, 20 Aug 1998, Aleksei Andrievski wrote: > >Remember the Immortal servants I posted earlier this year? I was thinking > >that we could include which servants each Immortal prefers to use in the > >Immortal Project. Here are some for Al-kalim.. > > > > > Looks great Håvard! Maybe you'd like to do similar writeups for each > Immortal after I detail him? :) Phew. I'll see what I can do. I'll need some ideas though. Several immortals probably use the same servants. I noted this for angels and IMC Alphaks, Demogorgon and Orcus are the ones who most frequently use Fiends. I have no idea what kind of crazy creatures Benekander might come up with.. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 19:21:17 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants On Wed, 19 Aug 1998, James Ruhland wrote: > > Angels > > > The only recomendation I might make is changing the name, to I.E. Seraphim > (something that doesn't imply a *direct* link to current religions). Actually, I kinda liked the symetri of having angels and demons. Oh they are called fiends now? Well, IMC I'll call em angels..I guess Asumons or something could be used... > I know you used "Seraph" for one version of them, but IMO a > Initiate like > Al-Kalim probably wouldn't have had the power to create a whole hierarchy > of servants. At best he'd have a couple "senior aides". As time goes by, > and he gets more potent, then the rest might follow, but probably for now > he should have a small (but perhaps "elite") "staff" of such servators. Thats a good point. Originally I was thinking that Angels werent created by the Immortals, but rather had made a pact with the immortals. I discarded that idea though. I like the idea of Al-kalim having just a small elite angelic staff which he plans to expand as he gains more power. IMO Al is due for a promotion... Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 19:26:28 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants On Fri, 21 Aug 1998 bcourtemanch@merrimack.edu wrote: > Hi Havard - > > Well you certainly have done your homework concerning angels, cherubs, and > the like! I only scanned this e-mail to the list, but I think DnD has > already published a very angel-like creature, servant to Lawful immortals: > Archons (spelled right?). I believe they are featured in the Creature > Catalog. I used one once to act as a messenger of the Great One to my > player-characters. Hi Mograg. I havent forgotten about the Archons. In fact i'm working on them righ now. However, there are quite a few problems with these creatures. Being lawful and belonging to the sphere of energy and all. And whats with the archon females anyway? Does anyone know if these critters have a mythological source? Or is it a result of TSR staff on LSD? Frank, you may wanna comment on this? :) > Still, your work on the angels is thorough and impressive. Thanks! :) Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 12:22:12 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants > I have no idea what kind of crazy creatures Benekander might come up > with.. > I still think that this is a bit much. IMO, what is being forgotten is that it costs a *LOT* of PPs to create such Servators. Initiates like al-Kalim and Benekander should have few if any. Certainly not whole hosts of them. Significant #s of powerful Servators should be reserved, IMO, for the older and higher ranking Immortals. But, *sigh*, I'll probably get slapped down for that opinion, too. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 12:24:12 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants > IMO Al is due for a promotion... > Thats a good point, though, too: IMO, Al-Kalim should be a Temporal by now (the guy's been an Initiate for a loooong time.) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 20:47:53 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Kol > << Because it's the opinion of the other Glantrian princes... > > > > Jamuga Khan > >> > You speaking from personal knowledge or from some source material? > Mainly an impression, but I remember vaguely that it was canon. It must be one of the PWA; that in which Kol becomes prince. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:43:36 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants >I still think that this is a bit much. IMO, what is being forgotten is that >it costs a *LOT* of PPs to create such Servators. Initiates like al-Kalim >and Benekander should have few if any. Certainly not whole hosts of them. > Significant #s of powerful Servators should be reserved, IMO, for the >older and higher ranking Immortals. > But, *sigh*, I'll probably get slapped down for that opinion, too. Well, James, thats the biggest pile of rubbish ive ever seen written by you :) Only kidding, I agree 100%. Immortals create these guys to be their servants - and they are pretty darn expensive (especially when Immortals can have loads of avatars anyway). Only the really powerful Immortals will a) need them b) have the required Power to make them That being said, IMC I have near-Immortals get elevated to Exalted status. The Immortal forks out 5PP to make a physical form, and then gifts that form with some Power (say, 100PP, if that). More like a Resurrection with some Power thrown in than anything else, really Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 14:13:44 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants On Fri, 21 Aug 1998, [iso-8859-1] Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: > mythological source? Or is it a result of TSR staff on LSD? Frank, you may I'd go with the LSD idea. IMC, Archon Females look just like Archon Males, albeit with a female Torso. The fact that Females had no arms/hands was a distinct turn-off. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 00:48:59 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants >Phew. I'll see what I can do. I'll need some ideas though. Several immortals probably use the same servants. I noted this for angels and IMC Alphaks, Demogorgon and Orcus are the ones who most frequently use Fiends. I have no idea what kind of crazy creatures Benekander might come up with.. Walking beagles? :) Some Immortals probably use titans. ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Blue Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 10:49:25 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants > > Walking beagles? :) > Some Immortals probably use titans. > I think a Titan named "Lister" would be good for Bennekander. 8-)~ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 17:46:29 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants >> Walking beagles? :) >> Some Immortals probably use titans. >> >I think a Titan named "Lister" would be good for Bennekander. > > 8-)~ LOL *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 21:48:09 +0200 From: "Riccardo Tecchio" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Use of Poison Messaggio a pių sezioni in formato MIME. - ------=_NextPart_000_00D9_01BDCE16.8D7CA340 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I read on the best of Dragon Magazine nr. 2 , " POISON: FROM AA TO XX ". The poison are very important for thiefs, but i don't understand if a = thief can be an alchemist or a "poison-maker"? And if yes , can a thief make poison like alchemist : i.e. 16th level = thief can make a J poison, or a 25th level thief can make a XX poison? - ------=_NextPart_000_00D9_01BDCE16.8D7CA340 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I read on = the best of=20 Dragon Magazine nr. 2 , " POISON: FROM AA TO XX = ".
The poison are very = important for=20 thiefs, but i don't understand if a thief can be an alchemist or a=20 "poison-maker"?
And if yes , can a thief = make poison=20 like alchemist : i.e. 16th level thief can make a J poison, or a 25th = level=20 thief can make a XX poison?
- ------=_NextPart_000_00D9_01BDCE16.8D7CA340-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #585 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Sunday, August 23 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 586 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - [IP] Alphatia [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Benny [MYSTARA] - Companion Set Re: [MYSTARA] - Time, is on my mind. Re: [MYSTARA] - Early Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Use of Poison Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Benny Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Benny Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Benny Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Benny Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Benny Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants Re: [MYSTARA] - Time, is on my mind. [MYSTARA] - Great Rain of Fire Re: [MYSTARA] - Time, is on my mind. Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Benny Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Benny Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Rain of Fire Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Benny Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Rain of Fire ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 15:33:26 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: [MYSTARA] - [IP] Alphatia Alphatia (Lady of Peace) Lesser Power of Elysium, LG/Celestial of Energy, L PORTFOLIO: Pacifism, artistry ALIASES: Latehani (Sind) DOMAIN: Elysium/Amoria/Cyprisia DATE OF ASCENSION: 800 BC SPONSOR: Razud ALLIES: Razud, Koryis FOES: Alphaks SYMBOL: A glowing shield with paints dabbed on it like an artist's palette WAL: Any except CE (most are pacifists) In her mortal life, Alphatia was Aasla, a common Alphatian woman. She was born in Old Alphatia and traveled to Mystara together with other Alphatians when the old empire was destroyed. Aasla and her followers founded a new city (named after herself) on their new continent. In the next 200 years, the city of Aasla and the kingdom of Haven were transformed into a place of beauty, civilization, and art. Thus Aasla became the Immortal Alphatia. The Church CLERGY: Priests (Peacebringers) CAL: LG, LN, NG, N WEAPONS: Net, staff, club, thrown rock, sling, staff sling, lasso, mancatcher ARMOR: Up to chain mail MAJOR SPHERES: All, Charm, Creation, Guardian, Healing, Necromantic, Protection, Wards MINOR SPHERES: Divination, Law, Sun GRANTED POWERS: Turn Undead, +2 to saves vs. rod/staff/wand and spells, Cure Light Wounds 1/day BONUS PROFS: Priest's choice of either Healing or Artistic Ability DOGMA: Alphatia believes in a peaceful existence, enriched by beauty and artistry. She abhors violence and wars, and encourages her followers to speak for peace in the Alphatian Empire. This is not to say that her followers cannot fight - they are merely not allowed to initiate violence of any kind, except to defend themselves or those under their protection. Even then, they must strive not to slay their opponents, unless no other alternative presents itself. Followers of Alphatia are also encouraged to engage in artistic pursuits whenever possible, and they are absolutely forbidden to damage any beautiful or artistic things. Needless to say, followers of Alphatia are extremely hostile to the followers of Alphaks, and the Immortal often looks the other way if her followers initiate hostilities against Alphaksans. DAY-TO-DAY ACTIVITIES: Alphatia's priests spend their time in quiet study or creation of art. They are not required to spend every single moment of their day doing that, merely when it is possible and when inspiration strikes them. They also travel around the world, observing and admiring the beatiful arts of other people and cultures. The priests are also a force for peace in the Alphatian Empire, and they have several members of the clergy in the Grand Council; these members advocate peace and speak out against expansionistic wars. IMPORTANT CEREMONIES/HOLY DAYS: The 11th of Vatermont marks the foundation of the city of Aasla. It is considered a holy day by Alphatia's clergy, and on this day they are visited by divine inspiration that allows them to create especially fine works of whatever art they like most. Obviously, this day sees the creation of a lot of beautiful things throughout the Alphatian Empire. MAJOR CENTERS OF WORSHIP: Alphatia is worshipped mostly by common folk in all regions of Alphatian Empire except Esterhold. More imperialistic Alphatians scoff at her followers, but she is nonetheless a patron of all Alphatian people. Alphatia also acts as one of the protectors of Gentle Folk elves in the Hollow World. In Sind, she is known as Latehani, patroness of pacifism, and has a following among the lower castes and among the Kei mystics. AFFILIATED ORDERS: As mentioned above, the Kei mystics of Sind take a major part of their philosophy from the teachings of Alphatia (Latehani). They emphasize self-defense by being out of the blow's way before it lands. In Aasla, the Society of Artistic Devotion is an art club whose members share their artistic insights with each other and undertake joint projects to create particularly extensive works of art. The wizardess Mylertendal is the Society's most prominent member. PRIESTLY VESTMENTS: Alphatia's priests wear ceremonial robes that must contain all colors of the spectrum somewhere on their surface. The colors can be arranged into any sort of images, or just be mixed together randomly (though with artistic sense). ADVENTURING GARB: When adventuring, priests of Alphatia also strive to have all colors visible on their clothing somewhere. If they carry shields, these are often colored to represent the likeness of Alphatia's symbol (and can be used as a holy symbol in spellcasting). Alphatian Spells Artistic Inspiration (Enchantment) Level: 2 Sphere: Charm Range: Touch Components: V, S Duration: 1 day/level Casting Time: 1r Area of Effect: 1 creature Saving Throw: None This spell instills a willing target creature with divine inspiration, prompting him to create art objects. For the duration of the spell, the creature gains +4 bonuses to all artistic proficiencies, and on the roll of 3 or less he creates a truly masterful work of art. During the time the spell is in effect, the creature will feel an urge to create art objects, but is not in any way forced to do so. Multiple works of art can be created with the above bonuses as long as the spell persists. Only willing creatures who are capable of creating art can be affected (thus most animals and mindless creatures are excluded); undead are also not affected. The spell does not make the target change his views on what constitutes art; thus, works of art created by an orc would likely be quite strange to most humans, while works of art created by a mind flayer would probably include elements that are abhorrent to members of other races (the priest should be careful in such cases lest he himse! lf become part of the art object). ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Blue Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 22:00:52 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Benny Speaking of Benekander.. I find this immortal a bit problematic from a mystarocentric point of view. He has no myths associated with him. In fact he seems more like a politician than a god. So why should people worship him? Would he start atheistic cults? Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 15:58:30 CDT From: "Ceaf Lewis" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Companion Set Hi! I only have the DM rulebook of the Companion set so I need A: The rules for Wrestling B: The ways to become an Immortal Thanks! Ceaf Lewis lordceaf@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 17:00:11 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Time, is on my mind. > This brings an interesting question. Suppose a mortal wants to attain > Immortality in the sphere of Time. Can he just declare that he "sponsors > himself from the future"? I certainly would not let a player get away with declaring that. Khoronus may well have sponsored himself to Immortality, but reread the story of how it was done -- it came about in the course of normal adventuring, but Khoronus did not realize that he had sponsored himself until he "closed the loop" by sending that time machine back to himself. If you wish to use a similar plot for another Immortal of Time, you could drop hints that the sponsor of an Immortal candidate may very well be himself -- then again, he may not. But if he is sponsoring himself, it would have to be in the "accidental" way that Khoronus did it, and the actual quest for Immortality should if anything be even harder than normal. By keeping the true identity of the sponsor ambiguous, you avoid paradoxes -- if the character attains Immortality, then he did sponsor himself, but if he fails to attain Immortality, then obviously he was not his own sponsor. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 17:30:04 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Early Immortals In a message dated 1998-08-19 22:13:52 Eastern Daylight Time, CRlPTONITE@aol.com writes: > I have always felt that the old Immortals never had a mortal existence > When the Old Ones created the Multiverse they made planets, stars, water, air, > life, mortals and (why not?) Immortals. Ixion, Thanatos, Faunus, Nyx and > the rest of them were probably created at the beginning of time. They can't > remember being a mortal, not because they are old and senile but because > they never were one. > > Any thoughts? That is certainly one possibility, and probably the best one for most of the Immortals listed. Two other possibilities: 1) Just as Immortals can assume mortal identities, Old Ones can assume Immortal identities. This idea would work best with Immortals who are ruling Hierarchs of a truly "godlike" nature. 2) A stranger idea is that time travelers excised an Immortal's past from existence. The theory behind this idea is that mortals whose pasts are excised from existence simply go "poof", but anyone who achieves Immortality in any timeline has his or her mortal past protected -- it can be excised from existence (at which point the Immortal forgets how he came to be Immortal), but the Immortal survives unchanged. If his later fame as an Immortal is not tied too closely to his mortal life, he may not even lose many worshipers. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 22:29:40 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Use of Poison This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01BDCD53.300A4140 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 I read on the best of Dragon Magazine nr. 2 , " POISON: FROM AA TO = XX ". The poison are very important for thiefs, but i don't understand if = a thief can be an alchemist or a "poison-maker"? And if yes , can a thief make poison like alchemist : i.e. 16th = level thief can make a J poison, or a 25th level thief can make a XX = poison? =20 Nice Font u got there... There is a cool Netbook, the Netbook of = Poisons, which has all sorts of nifty stuff that your would-be poisoner = can make (stuff with character, rather than Save or Die or Save or take = 25 boredom stuff). There is also some rules on the manufacture of = poison, and a new proficiency, Toxicology (knowledge of poisons). I was = actually surprised by how balanced the majority of the poisons in there = were - the majority are less powerful than i expected (although there = are a few obscenities in there...) =20 (Incidentally, for those who have it, TSR now has Toxicology in the = Spells and Magic book...) =20 Cheerz =20 Gothic Rob... :) - ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01BDCD53.300A4140 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I read = on the best of=20 Dragon Magazine nr. 2 , " POISON: FROM AA TO XX = ".
The poison are very = important for=20 thiefs, but i don't understand if a thief can be an alchemist or a=20 "poison-maker"?
And if yes , can a = thief make=20 poison like alchemist : i.e. 16th level thief can make a J poison, = or a 25th=20 level thief can make a XX poison?
 
Nice Font = u got=20 there...  There is a cool Netbook, the Netbook of Poisons, = which has=20 all sorts of nifty stuff that your would-be poisoner can make (stuff = with=20 character, rather than Save or Die or Save or take 25 boredom = stuff). =20 There is also some rules on the manufacture of poison, and a new=20 proficiency, Toxicology (knowledge of poisons).  I was actually = surprised by how balanced the majority of the poisons in there were = - - the=20 majority are less powerful than i expected (although there are a few = obscenities in there...)
 
(Incidentally, for=20 those who have it, TSR now has Toxicology in the Spells and Magic=20 book...)
 
Cheerz
 
Gothic = Rob...=20 :)
- ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01BDCD53.300A4140-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 22:34:00 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Benny >Speaking of Benekander.. >I find this immortal a bit problematic from a mystarocentric point of >view. He has no myths associated with him. In fact he seems more like a >politician than a god. So why should people worship him? Would he start >atheistic cults? He could well take over Rads job if IYC Rad gets bumped off permanently in WotI. The mortals need never know the switch of ID. Alternatively, he could team up with Rad and Rafiel (seems only logical) to become #3 in the Radiance Immortals. Rafiel in particular, having a technological background, is a likely ally. As for worshipping... Rafiel is a white coated scientist!!! I'm sure that if Benekander does make some allies they will give him some tips... How to be a good Deity, volume I, by Ixion... Coping with being the Centre of a Religion, by Faunus... Human Sacrifice Ritual Design Made Easy, by Thanatos... :) Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 22:20:21 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants > Phew. I'll see what I can do. I'll need some ideas though. Several > immortals probably use the same servants. I noted this for angels and IMC > Alphaks, Demogorgon and Orcus are the ones who most frequently use Fiends. > I have no idea what kind of crazy creatures Benekander might come up > with.. Perhaps reparature robots? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 00:19:57 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Benny On Fri, 21 Aug 1998, Rob wrote: > > > >Speaking of Benekander.. > >I find this immortal a bit problematic from a mystarocentric point of > >view. He has no myths associated with him. In fact he seems more like a > >politician than a god. So why should people worship him? Would he start > >atheistic cults? > > > He could well take over Rads job if IYC Rad gets bumped off permanently in > WotI. The mortals need never know the switch of ID. > > Alternatively, he could team up with Rad and Rafiel (seems only logical) to > become #3 in the Radiance Immortals. Rafiel in particular, having a > technological background, is a likely ally. This sounds interesting. Benekander is the "dont interfere with mortals" type though, so he would probably be a bit reluctant about it. OTOH I bet he would love to work on the Beagle's reactor again. > As for worshipping... Rafiel is a white coated scientist!!! I'm sure that > if Benekander does make some allies they will give him some tips... > > How to be a good Deity, volume I, by Ixion... > Coping with being the Centre of a Religion, by Faunus... > Human Sacrifice Ritual Design Made Easy, by Thanatos... LOL :) Actually my idea about an atheistic cult could work. I know there was a group called the gnostics who believed that god was evil and had created this world to torment mankind. (IIRC) Maybe Benny could set up something similar, though probably not as extreme.. Thyatis would be a good place to start. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 17:17:59 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Benny > > Speaking of Benekander.. > I find this immortal a bit problematic from a mystarocentric point of > view. He has no myths associated with him. In fact he seems more like a > politician than a god. So why should people worship him? Would he start > atheistic cults? > The guy's a vendor repairman, remember. He's new as an Immortal. From my (albeit limited) experience running & participating in Immortal-level campaigns (all rather abortive), most players with "new" Immortals start out running them pretty much like a normal character, especially if they *are* their "normal" character who just achieved "god" status. Only later does their perspective begin to change (and we never really got beyond that point, so perhaps someone with more experience in Immortal campaigns can expound). IMO, this is actually appropriate. After all, new Immortals are gifted with new power, and are taught the rudiments of being Immortals by their sponsor, but they're pretty much "on their own" for the rest. Especially a guy like Bennekander, who may have been an Immortal for milennia, but spent almost all that time locked in a Tiger Cage (his Mirror/badge). OTOH, I am pretty much of the opinion that Bennekander=Garth, in which case he would be on his way to becoming a "real" immortal, and not a jumped-up politico or vending machine repairman, and attracting a following, and developing his own "lore". (oh, also, re other folks who gain Immortal status the "normal" way, they're probably highly-regarded heros with legends, a la Perseus or Alexander the Great, to pick a RL myth and a RL mythologized person, and thus have an additional "leg up" on a dude like Bennekander, who doesn't have a litany of deeds for Bards or Skalds to sing of. . .yet. . . .) First thing to do would be to get a impressive name. Neither Bennekander or Garth really cut the mustard (cut the cheese, perhaps). I suppose appropriate for a fledgling Immortal who doesn't have a sponsor to straighten him out, and doubly important for a guy who's E.T. anyhow (though Rheddrian is a fine, impressive enough name. Too bad he junked it. *sigh*). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 19:10:14 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants In a message dated 1998-08-21 13:46:11 Eastern Daylight Time, jruhlconob@sprynet.com writes: > That's a good point, though, too: IMO, Al-Kalim should be a Temporal by now > (the guy's been an Initiate for a loooong time). Has he? Just when did he achieve Immortality, anyway? I got the impression that it was some time in the 10th century AC, and that he founded the religion of Eternal Truth well before he achieved Immortality. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 19:10:16 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Benny In a message dated 1998-08-22 17:49:09 Eastern Daylight Time, rmunch@easynet.co.uk writes: > He could well take over Rad's job if IYC Rad gets bumped off permanently in > WotI. The mortals need never know the switch of ID. > > Alternatively, he could team up with Rad and Rafiel (seems only logical) to > become #3 in the Radiance Immortals. Rafiel in particular, having a > technological background, is a likely ally. > > As for worshipping... Rafiel is a white coated scientist!!! I'm sure that > if Benekander does make some allies they will give him some tips... There is just one problem with these ideas -- Benekander's most likely first reaction to the actions of all of the Immortals involved in WotI seems to have been on the order of "Are you guys all nuts?" Of course, gaining followers would probably be a very easy matter for him, since in the years that followed Benekander's sudden transition to Immortality many mortals must have had the same thoughts. In his early days as an Immortal, however, he seems to have concentrated on learning how to stay out of trouble with the other Immortals -- learning not to show his Manifestation form on the Prime Plane and making an acceptable Mortal Identity form must have taxed him considerably. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 01:32:59 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Benny - ----- >There is just one problem with these ideas -- Benekander's most likely first >reaction to the actions of all of the Immortals involved in WotI seems to have >been on the order of "Are you guys all nuts?" He knows more than the other Immortals do about the Nucleus of the Spheres. If anything though his views would support the views of the Fellowship of the Star - he doesnt yet know that his spaceship has been turned into the Nucleus of the Spheres. Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 23:17:23 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants > > Has he? Just when did he achieve Immortality, anyway? I got the impression > that it was some time in the 10th century AC, > Actually, I guess that's true. He just *seemed* to have been one for longer, since, like you pointed out, he founded his Cult of Personality well before becoming an Immortal. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 01:51:26 -0500 From: John Normand Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Time, is on my mind. is there a phb on spells for timetravel (chronomancy i think) if so whats the title of the handbook Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: > > This brings an interesting question. Suppose a mortal wants to attain > > Immortality in the sphere of Time. Can he just declare that he "sponsors > > himself from the future"? > > I certainly would not let a player get away with declaring that. Khoronus may > well have sponsored himself to Immortality, but reread the story of how it was > done -- it came about in the course of normal adventuring, but Khoronus did > not realize that he had sponsored himself until he "closed the loop" by > sending > that time machine back to himself. > > If you wish to use a similar plot for another Immortal of Time, you could drop > hints that the sponsor of an Immortal candidate may very well be himself -- > then again, he may not. But if he is sponsoring himself, it would have to be > in the "accidental" way that Khoronus did it, and the actual quest for > Immortality > should if anything be even harder than normal. By keeping the true identity > of the sponsor ambiguous, you avoid paradoxes -- if the character attains > Immortality, then he did sponsor himself, but if he fails to attain > Immortality, > then obviously he was not his own sponsor. > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 00:52:23 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Great Rain of Fire Here's something that occurred to me today. It is pretty much assumed (I've always assumed it anyway, and its pretty well implied) that the shifting of Mystara's axis caused by the Great Rain of Fire took place immediately, as a direct consequence of the cataclysm. It occurred to me that this probably isn't terribly realistic or feasible (everyone would have been tossed off into space, for one thing), so here's the idea I came up with: When the cataclysm occurred, Blackmoor was devastated, and the areas around it filled with radioactive fallout, prompting mass emigrations from the area (also, incidentally, leading to the eventual stabilizing of the Beastmen's erratic gene structures). This much seems pretty self evident (save for the Veastmen bit, which I added). A side effect not noticed by any, though, was that somehow, the radioactivity interacted with the mysterious Black Rock that Blackmoor was founded upon. That Black Rock was altered by the vast release of energy (radioactive and magical) such that it caused changes in the World Shied itself, to which the Black Rock was directly connected. Those changes included a slow, gradual shift in Mystara's rotation, eventually causing its axis to change to the present day (seemingly stable) one. In this manner, such cataclysmic upheavals as occurred in 2500 BC (which caused the lands around the present day Atruaghin plateau to become fertile) and perhaps 1750 BC (which destroyed the old Atruaghin plateau and caused the present day Ierendi and Minrothad isles to break from the mainland) can be explained as related to the shift in axial tilt. Anyway, just my 2 cents. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 09:14:47 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Time, is on my mind. >is there a phb on spells for timetravel (chronomancy i think) if so whats the >title of the handbook "Chronomancer" is the book which describes chronomancy (in all its perplexing detail... :) Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 10:38:31 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Benny >How to be a good Deity, volume I, by Ixion... >Coping with being the Centre of a Religion, by Faunus... >Human Sacrifice Ritual Design Made Easy, by Thanatos... > Curses 101, by Vanya How to Destroy Large Swaths of Land in the Name of Your Religion and Get Away With It, by Alphaks (a very thin book :) ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Blue Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 11:25:14 -0500 From: anowack@juno.com (Aaron E Nowack) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Benny On Sun, 23 Aug 1998 10:38:31 +0300 "Aleksei Andrievski" writes: >>How to be a good Deity, volume I, by Ixion... >>Coping with being the Centre of a Religion, by Faunus... >>Human Sacrifice Ritual Design Made Easy, by Thanatos... >> >Curses 101, by Vanya >How to Destroy Large Swaths of Land in the Name of Your Religion and >Get Away With It, by Alphaks (a very thin book :) How to Choose an Original Immortal Name by Benekendar (even thinner :) Aaron Nowack "In the grim darkness of the far future there is only.... SPAM." http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/5930/ _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 13:21:59 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Rain of Fire On Sun, 23 Aug 1998, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote: > isn't terribly realistic or feasible (everyone would have been tossed off into > space, for one thing), so here's the idea I came up with: An immediate shift in the axis would have tossed everyone off. But you forgot Immortal Intervention! The Immortals were too late to save Blackmoor, but they probably intervened to make fer damn sure that nothing else was destroyed! Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 13:24:16 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Benny On Sun, 23 Aug 1998, Aleksei Andrievski wrote: > >How to be a good Deity, volume I, by Ixion... > >Coping with being the Centre of a Religion, by Faunus... > >Human Sacrifice Ritual Design Made Easy, by Thanatos... > > > Curses 101, by Vanya > How to Destroy Large Swaths of Land in the Name of Your Religion and Get Away With It, by Alphaks (a very thin book :) Sponsoring yourself to Immortality, By Khronus. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 13:18:58 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Rain of Fire > > But you forgot Immortal Intervention! The Immortals were too late to save > Blackmoor, but they probably intervened to make fer damn sure that nothing > else was destroyed! > Well, lots of other things seem to have been destroyed or badly disrupted, but your general point (that they probably intervened to make sure the planet wasn't rendered uninhabited & uninhabitable) holds true. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #586 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, August 24 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 587 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants Re: [MYSTARA] - Early Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Benny Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Rain of Fire Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D and Gnomes as a Character Class Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ...Nyx Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ...Nyx Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D and Gnomes as a Character Class Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Benny Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Rain of Fire Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Benny [MYSTARA] - Catching up: 01-10 August Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ...Nyx Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants Re: [MYSTARA] - Catching up: 01-10 August Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 07:40:31 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants >> Angels >> >The only recomendation I might make is changing the name, to I.E. Seraphim >(something that doesn't imply a *direct* link to current religions). I take it your unaware of the nine ranks in the angelic order which includes angels archangels pandemoniums cherubim seraphim etc (can`t recall the rest at present) As an attempt to make this a Mystara posting here`s something a group of PCs Could do. M5 rather than clone the bits of Thincol and Eriadne They spoke with the dead and reincarnated Eriadne who then spent a little time rebuilding a one spell spellbook WISH. She then learns it and casts it upon herself to assume her normal form. Then a second WISH brings back her beloved husband Thincol. As I`m at work I can`t remember if she has 18 Int in order for this to work but if so There`s a very divergent timeline in the making when they get back to prime. >;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 07:45:55 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Early Immortals >I have always felt that the old Immortals never had a mortal existance. When >the Old Ones created the Multiverse they made planets, stars, water, air, >life, mortals and (why not?) Immortals. Ixion, Thanatos, Faunus, Nyx and the >rest of them were probably created at the beginning of time. They can't >remember being a mortal, not because they are old and senile but because they >never were one. > >Any thoughts? > Well in Primal Order It`s possible to become a god by gaining total control of your enviroment so that could also apply here, or maybe the wee-folk have it right about the cycles and all the oldest are relics from the last universe a la Galactus. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 00:08:42 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Benny How to Set Up False Cults, by Hel Achieving Immortality Without Licking Anyone's Boots, by Rad Corrputing a Culture in Five Easy Steps, by Thanatos A Guide to Smiling Mysteriously, by Loki Setting Up Your Followers For Eternal Existence, by Nyx Immortal Culinary Delights, by Bagni Gullymaw :) Gee, my brain must be affected by the Immortal Project... ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Blue Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 00:09:29 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Rain of Fire > Well, lots of other things seem to have been destroyed or badly disrupted, >but your general point (that they probably intervened to make sure the >planet wasn't rendered uninhabited & uninhabitable) holds true. > One must also remember the Skyshield, which would probably prevent everyone from just flying off into space. ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Blue Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 08:00:15 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D and Gnomes as a Character Class ><no idea what gnomes would have for a relic. Any >suggestions?).>> > My personal Idea is `Gnomic Workbench` where all those really nutty creations are actually made. It`s the big kit form of a `meddling box`. In fact when I did `Earthshaker` the canon artifact was only a new washing device which had been assembled wrong on the bench. BTW have you seen some of the control panels on todays washer driers? I don`t know whether to put in socks, or hijack it and demand it flies me to Cuba <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 08:06:05 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ...Nyx >> Well, the Milenians dont like her one little bit. >> >They don't like Vanya, and she doesn't like them. So does that make Vanya >an Entropic? > IMO she`s definately heading that way. Let`s see Murdering an emperor for trying to preserve his empire, siding with the victors even if it`s her own who`ve lost, loving war for its own sake. How about swapsies? good guys get NYX, vanya goes where her talents will be appreciated. <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 08:13:16 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ...Nyx > A world of undead, otoh, would be a *setback* for Entropy: undead are >ageless, they are very durable, many are very hard to damage and/or >destroy, and a reasonable number have the ability to regenerate what damage >they do suffer. > OTOH they are static not dynamic so once you find the weakness it all crumbles into nothingness just as Entropy wants. Life is dynamic ever changing, evolving to overcome problems and so much harder to destroy totally. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 08:29:35 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants >I still think that this is a bit much. IMO, what is being forgotten is that >it costs a *LOT* of PPs to create such Servators. Initiates like al-Kalim >and Benekander should have few if any. Certainly not whole hosts of them. > Significant #s of powerful Servators should be reserved, IMO, for the >older and higher ranking Immortals. > But, *sigh*, I'll probably get slapped down for that opinion, too. > Actually I agree with you. However if these servitors were created with the ability to propagate then given time you`ll have more than sufficient. Spending a few more PP at the start pays of big in the long run. BTW why are they needed at all? Why not use one of those mortals from you home plane who`re loyal to you and jazz them up with some magic? Much cheaper in any case because you dont lose the PP expended in creation when it gets killed. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 16:32:59 +0100 From: Cameron Paine Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D and Gnomes as a Character Class - --------------95F8C8A650B3886FB3F11483 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" A British equivelant would be a Haynes manual. These are supposedly handy and easy to understand guides to a wide range of motorvehicles. Instead they are published by a hell spawn deviant who employs blind people to take photos of things that go along with text that is written by idiots. It is almost like a rune of frustration. It's exactly the kind of thing that a Gnome would love and would make industrial sabotage almost impossible. In fact it is a bit like Gnomes, a combination of science and that thing that means Alchemists never have eyebrows. It is certainly designed to make you loose some of your precious few marbles and go red with aperplexy. I think that John Cleese said it best in Clockwise, "It's not the dispair Laura, I can cope with the dispair." "It's the hope" Bloody Haines manuals, with their insert Honda part HVg67-qr43a into the three equaldistant tortion holes. Honda part HVg67-qr43a of course costs you a fortune and then when you get it, (back order of course, sorry gov), it doesn't fit your version anyway and then you find out all you really need is a bent screwdriver, but then you don't have three tortion holes do you? Nooooo you have two and one is obscured by the alternator cover, something that is miraculously missing from your book and then you finally follow steps 1 to 4 and step 5 makes this massive leap to completion. I mean what's that all about? What about step 4b? It's like those instructions for bow ties that go from 1 to 5, easy and then step 6? How? I mean how. Who writes this stuff? What kind of lowlife, ba............ Cameron, xxx. paul dooley wrote: > >< >no idea what gnomes would have for a relic. Any > >suggestions?).>> > > > My personal Idea is `Gnomic Workbench` where all those really nutty > creations are actually made. It`s the big kit form of a `meddling box`. > In fact when I did `Earthshaker` the canon artifact was only a new > washing device which had been assembled wrong on the bench. BTW have you > seen some of the control panels on todays washer driers? I don`t know > whether to put in socks, or hijack it and demand it flies me to Cuba > <;-P > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. - --------------95F8C8A650B3886FB3F11483 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" A British equivelant would be a Haynes manual.

These are supposedly handy and easy to understand guides to a wide range of motorvehicles. Instead they are published by a hell spawn deviant who employs blind people to take photos of things that go along with text that is written by idiots. It is almost like a rune of frustration. It's exactly the kind of thing that a Gnome would love and would make industrial sabotage almost impossible. In fact it is a bit like Gnomes, a combination of science and that thing that means Alchemists never have eyebrows.

It is certainly designed to make you loose some of your precious few marbles and go red with aperplexy.

 I think that John Cleese said it best in Clockwise,

    "It's not the dispair Laura, I can cope with the dispair."

    "It's the hope"

Bloody Haines manuals, with their insert Honda part HVg67-qr43a into the three equaldistant tortion holes. Honda part HVg67-qr43a of course costs you a fortune and then when you get it, (back order of course, sorry gov), it doesn't fit your version anyway and then you find out all you really need is a bent screwdriver, but then you don't have three tortion holes do you? Nooooo you have two and one is obscured by the alternator cover, something that is miraculously missing from your book and then you finally follow steps 1 to 4 and step 5 makes this massive leap to completion. I mean what's that all about? What about step 4b? It's like those instructions for bow ties that go from 1 to 5, easy and then step 6? How? I mean how. Who writes this stuff? What kind of lowlife, ba............

Cameron,
xxx.

paul dooley wrote:

><<Gnomish families are organized into clans (and I have
>no idea what gnomes would have for a relic.  Any
>suggestions?).>>
>
My personal Idea is `Gnomic Workbench` where all those really nutty
creations are actually made. It`s the big kit form of a `meddling box`.
In fact when I did `Earthshaker` the canon artifact was only a new
washing device which had been assembled wrong on the bench. BTW have you
seen some of the control panels on todays washer driers? I don`t know
whether to put in socks, or hijack it and demand it flies me to Cuba
<;-P

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  - --------------95F8C8A650B3886FB3F11483-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 08:35:22 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants >Thats a good point, though, too: IMO, Al-Kalim should be a Temporal by now >(the guy's been an Initiate for a loooong time.) > Maybe he read `Primal Order` and couln`t think of a sphere of control? Or maybe it`s taken this long to get one and the ability? Perhaps a quik nap in an outer plane where time runs MUCH slower? Then again if he`s been spending PP to create servitors as fast as possible there is a reason that it`s taken so long to advance? Just some of the ways to explain it. Running an Immortal campaign leads toall sorts of ideas. <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 08:39:03 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants >I think a Titan named "Lister" would be good for Bennekander. > > 8-)~ > Now now stop being Katty,or you`ll start some sort of Holly war ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 08:46:38 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Benny >Speaking of Benekander.. >I find this immortal a bit problematic from a mystarocentric point of >view. He has no myths associated with him. In fact he seems more like a >politician than a god. So why should people worship him? Would he start >atheistic cults? > Well maybe as `Gareth` he`ll get the worship he needs. BTW an important point where`s his homeplane? if it`s not already been put elsewhere could his elevation have been with prime is home. This could mean that there are 20 of him about all with 5% of his own power plus those bonus six levels to each of them. That would make him a major player even as a new initiate. As a GM I`d laugh at this from a PC but there`s nothing in the rules to stop this. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 08:59:59 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great Rain of Fire >Here's something that occurred to me today. It is pretty much assumed (I've >always assumed it anyway, and its pretty well implied) that the shifting of >Mystara's axis caused by the Great Rain of Fire took place immediately, as a >direct consequence of the cataclysm. It occurred to me that this probably >isn't terribly realistic or feasible (everyone would have been tossed off into >space, for one thing), so here's the idea I came up with: > Actuall there is a theory and some evidence to prove it in the RW. The Migration of the poles over vast distances circa 2000km. can be explained by rapid shifts just like happened to Mystara. Problem is RW floats on the magma which allows the possibility of such an occurence. In Mystara pehaps entire solid rotated about the gate Ixion created for HW sun? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 09:05:23 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Benny >How to Set Up False Cults, by Hel >Achieving Immortality Without Licking Anyone's Boots, by Rad >Corrputing a Culture in Five Easy Steps, by Thanatos >A Guide to Smiling Mysteriously, by Loki >Setting Up Your Followers For Eternal Existence, by Nyx >Immortal Culinary Delights, by Bagni Gullymaw :) > Hey Guys We Exist by Halfling Heroes ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 12:19:43 EDT From: ExTSR@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Catching up: 01-10 August What I Did On My Summer Vacation The usuals; travel (to North Carolina and Washington DC) and lazing. But geez, now I need to catch up on most of August... First, thanks to all who dropped by to say hello at GenCon. I managed to take time from auctioneering to take part in a Greyhawk seminar, and ::blush:: was seated along with Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson as part of the "Old Guard" trio, in contrast to those who arrived a bit later on. IMO, longevity doth not a founder make... but if I'm one of the few survivors, well, so be it. James Ruhland commented on 8/1 in "A Tale of Three Dice sets" >>My first set came with "randomizers" known as "chits" These copies are now collectible, as long as the chits are uncut. We made 'em for two markets, neither large: prisoners (who were liable to use the dice for gambling) and the American "Bible Belt" wherein dice were deemed Unholy. :/ Jamuga Khan noted on 8/2 in "A Tale of Three Games" >> ...the "old" D&D resembled more to AD&D 1st Ed. than to "new" D&D. I assume that there were some fights in the ranks of TSR. Perhaps Gygax had his idea of D&D, but was convinced to reform it, only to switch it to AD&D later on. Frank Mentzer should know more about this theme. As you may recall, TSR and Dave Arneson were fighting at the time (unexpected windfalls tend to promote combat, as we know from our games) and the primary effect on MY work was a mandate for complete separation of the D&D and AD&D games. Any incidental leakage of details from the original D&D set (co- authored by Gygax & Arneson) into AD&D (Gygax sole authorship) was to be modified and if possible expunged; my D&D expansion/revision/development was to build from the original only, with no cribbing from AD&D. There are many examples of the new directions (and more than a bit of historical revisionism) as a result of those lawsuits. btw, note that after the dust settled, TSR developed and published Blackmoor materials from Dave, and I think Gary and Dave are reasonably friendly to this day. Cthulhudrew, on 8/4, rambled in "Last question for Frank Mentzer": >>I'm curious to hear your take on this matter: The concept of the Immortals. When you created them, and later expanded upon them in the Gold Box, they seemed to be less "Gods", in the AD&D near-omnipotent manner, and more "Superhuman" legendary heroes. Later Mystara products sort of vacillated on this issue... How did you envision the Immortals and their role in things? From their first introduction, of sorts, in the Companion and Masters sets, they seem far removed from mankind, mere legends, and certainly not looked upon as being gods who oversee the progress of man, but later portrayals differ greatly.<< As a major fan of Robert Heinlein since my childhood, I have seized various opportunities to incorporate a few themes and opinions from his myriad works into my own few offerings. This is common throughout literature, of course; as authors we combine our own ideas with those of others, reaching for a synergy. My "Egg of the Phoenix" adventure, for example, lifted the name of that artifact introduced by RAH, but of course developed the concept in an entirely different way. In Heinlein's later works, he became a proponent of the concept of Author as Creator, to wit: when one's Imagination and Works achieve wide enough fame and/or popularity, those creations literally take on a life of their own, and a new alternate universe is created in which those Fictional entities become Real ones. This therefore carries over into my development of Immortals. Ancient gods have few followers, and have thus become less known and less powerful. Immortal beings of more recent history retain greater fame and power. New Immortals, i.e. PCs and others who transcend mortality, will probably follow a similar cycle -- great notoriety and power at first, lessening over time as their fame ebbs. Back to Heinlein again... in his "Job" (a most entertaining adaptation of the biblical story), the climax is a brief meeting of the gods to discuss Job's fate. The Immortal filling the role of the Judeo-Christian god is opposed by a being of similar power analogous to Loki (or Satan), but both are truly Immortals of complex motivations lacking any clear-cut "Good" or "Evil" factionalism. And both are overseen by a greater being -- who presumably has his/her/its superiors as well -- who proceeds to rule on the whole matter and enforce a resulting change in Reality. This multiversal organizational methodology is reflected quite accurately in D&D Immortals, though (for playability) I leave the Higher Powers incomprehensible and vague. Are the Immortals "mere" heroic super-beings, vs. "true" gods? Depends on your perspective. 'Way up the ladder somewhere there may be "true" gods... but I designed our good ol' Immortals as simply the next step up from Mortals, with abilities commensurate with their stature. They interact with Mortals for their own reasons, and each to their own preferences... which is to say, to whatever degree the DM wishes for the purposes of the game at hand. ;> DM relapsed on 8/10 in "Re: Hello (from an Author)" >>Was this Lorraine Williams somehow related to Gary Gygax (I read somewhere he got ousted by his wife..)?<< No relation, either to Gary or to Ralph "Skip" Williams. The "Gary's Wife..." rumors are utterly wrong; I knew Mary Gygax and all the kids. Though Gary and Mary did get a divorce around the time that Mrs. Williams took over TSR, those matters were essentially unrelated. <> Actually, I don't know. I left in '86, preferring to go with Gary than to stay with Lorraine. I know that she succeeded as a business administrator before she came to TSR, and did quite well even at TSR at least for the first few years. And I'd bet that she's doing well in whatever business she tackled after selling TSR. But IMO, there are business tactics that work great in the Chicago business markets, or on Wall Street, that simply do not work (in the long run) in the game industry. <> Why, yes, I can. :) Later, perhaps. BAHUMUTH2 followed up on 8/10 with... <<...does that mean you made up the original rules or designed Karameikos? Do you like the original rules or did you game with AD&D Rules when they came out? ...But what was with Bargle's Dungeon? Did anyone else think that the adventurer's "first" adventure was just a bit too tough? I developed and expanded the game in 1982-85. The Original Rules are from 1974 or so. I did not design Karameikos (check the credits on related works). Bargle's Dungeon is adequate for a couple of small adventures for party levels 1-3, given a moderately cautious and minimally competent strategic approach -- which is to say, much too tough for some modern talk-talk roleplayers, but a tad easy for experienced tacticians. While this may be too challenging for rank novices, recall that everyone SHOULD have played the solo intro adventure first, and should have at least a rudimentary concept of the game's premises. All IMHO, and no offense meant. Regarding Finances... Two points here. First, remember that the game is an entertainment medium. If your players don't enjoy the complexities of taxation and finance, go easy on it, please. But if it's all background deductions producing a game detail that does not dominate the flavor of the campaign, then great. Second: remember that in this setting, Creatures collect cash and hoard it. Consider that drain on the regional cash flows when you're computing totals; it is not insubstantial, and it has few analogues in the realworld. And one aside: tax collectors are probably low-to-mid-level adventurer- wannabe NPCs who found that they couldn't cut it in the long run. ;> Regarding Alignments... AD&D alignments codify Behavior (Law/Chaos) and Motivation (Good/Evil). Their original function, as descriptions of these facets of life, was unfortunately inverted from a supplemental role to a dominant one (e.g. do that and you'll lose your paladinhood). In D&D (both Original and mine), we pass on the motivation and stick to observable behavior; inner thoughts and character are too deep for many, and are complex to say the least. But the concept of Alignment Tongue is an ingenious (albeit flawed) game mechanic, since it mirrors the real-world truth that communication works best between those of like mind-sets. For example, if your worldview includes a fundamental trust in people, you tend to find and associate with others who also trust people, and you share common values and opinions. Otoh, if you assume that people will cheat/lie/steal if they are given the opportunities to do so, then you will have little in common with those who start with the reverse assumptions. More to come as time permits. - -- Frank Mentzer *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 11:30:49 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants > > I take it your unaware of the nine ranks in the angelic order which > includes angels archangels pandemoniums cherubim seraphim etc (can`t > recall the rest at present) > I'm vaguely aware, but my main point was not to use a *direct* link to current religions, and try to disguise the name somewhat (I.E. not call them "Angels"). OTOH, I'm also of the school that isn't fond of changing the names (& hierarchies) of Demons & Devils to Batezu & Tanari (or whatever it is). Plus some of my favorite articles are I.E. the Greenwood 3 parter on the 9 Hells, and the article reprinted in Best of the Dragon II on Satan et all. So, as you can see, I'm perplexed. As usual. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 11:33:16 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ...Nyx > > > IMO she`s definately heading that way. Let`s see Murdering an emperor > for trying to preserve his empire, siding with the victors even if it`s > her own who`ve lost, loving war for its own sake. How about swapsies? > good guys get NYX, vanya goes where her talents will be appreciated. > <;-P > LOL. I could go in for that. 8-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 11:37:27 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants > > > Actually I agree with you. However if these servitors were created with > the ability to propagate then given time you`ll have more than > sufficient > That is also a limiting factor for relatively "young" immortals, though, since there can't have been time for enough "generations" of their servators to create a large population of them. > Spending a few more PP at the start pays of big in the long > run. BTW why are they needed at all? > Probably they are mainly a tool (and a good one) for getting new "monsters" plausably into the game. Plus, a lot of Immortals love to "tinker around", and even if it isn't "efficient" to create servators, its a hobby for some and a matter of prestige for others to do so. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 11:48:57 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Catching up: 01-10 August > > These copies are now collectible, as long as the chits are uncut. We made 'em > for two markets, neither large: prisoners (who were liable to use the dice for > gambling) and the American "Bible Belt" wherein dice were deemed Unholy. :/ > Really? My set was purchaced at Pegasus Games in Madison Wisconsin. That might be part of the "Bible Belt of Gaming" though, I suppose. 8-)~ > 1-3, given a moderately cautious and minimally competent strategic approach -- > which is to say, much too tough for some modern talk-talk roleplayers, but a > tad easy for experienced tacticians. > Oh, goodie, a flame war is about to ensue ** Seriously though, I've seen some "yack-yackers" who are capable of sound "dongeon tactics", and some "hack and slashers" who's main response to any encounter is charge the biggest monster immediately. *hand into popcorn container* *munch* *leans back into chair* *munch, munch munch munch* > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 14:49:36 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants On Mon, 24 Aug 1998, James Ruhland wrote: > I'm vaguely aware, but my main point was not to use a *direct* link to > current religions, and try to disguise the name somewhat (I.E. not call > them "Angels"). IMC, I have a major Immortal ruler who has a servant race called Seraphis (male) And Sephia (female) They're just like "angels" except that they are mostly human of stature, with the reqisite wings (Seraphis have six, Sephia have 4, and they aren't all white/gold. Some are even black!) And they are a PC race (They are much like human avariel). Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #587 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, August 25 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 588 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Benny Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Benny Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Benny RE: [MYSTARA] - Catching up: 01-10 August Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 22:43:49 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Benny >Well maybe as `Gareth` he`ll get the worship he needs. BTW an important >point where`s his homeplane? if it`s not already been put elsewhere >could his elevation have been with prime is home. This could mean that >there are 20 of him about all with 5% of his own power plus those bonus >six levels to each of them. That would make him a major player even as a >new initiate. As a GM I`d laugh at this from a PC but there`s nothing in >the rules to stop this. > In the Immortal Project, I have specified Benny's homeplane as Prime Material. He will probably move to the outer planes once he gains some more power. ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Blue Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 22:42:15 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Benny In a message dated 1998-08-24 16:07:23 Eastern Daylight Time, solmyr@kolumbus.fi writes: > In the Immortal Project, I have specified Benny's homeplane as Prime > Material. He will probably move to the outer planes once he gains some more > power. While that might work for some Powers in the standard AD&D game worlds, there is a problem with this approach for Mystara, namely that appearing on the Prime Plane in Manifestation form is forbidden by the other Immortals. So wherever Benekander picked to "relax", it could not have been the Prime Material Plane -- the other Immortals would never have tolerated it. Do you remember how they reacted when he first appeared in Manifestation form in WotI? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 00:26:36 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Benny On Mon, 24 Aug 1998 Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: > the Prime Plane in Manifestation form is forbidden by the other Immortals. > So wherever Benekander picked to "relax", it could not have been the Prime > Material Plane -- the other Immortals would never have tolerated it. Do you > remember how they reacted when he first appeared in Manifestation form > in WotI? Benekander is Sphere of Matter, right? Why not put his homer plane as the home plane of most younger matter immortals? Or whatever major home plane of the sphere he's in? That's I think the default home plane for Immortals of the spheres. Max IV - Can't remember much. Running on 3 hrs sleep. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 12:21:39 +0200 From: Kristian Kramer Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Catching up: 01-10 August Well, if they use the kill-if-it-moves-and-if-it-doesn't-move-kill-it-anyway approach, they will soon find out, that that's not the best way to approach *all* NPC's (be it monster or human). So it's *GAME OVER* (very possibly). As a GM you can try to reason with the players and tell them it is possible to talk and reason (interact) with living beings (or run away from them :-> ). Not always of course, but IS possible. If they still want to hack 'n slash, they can get what they want. And when they are bored with that, you introduce some real role-playing. It takes a little time, but in the end they will get the point. Player, looking at the corpse of his once fiercesome fighter: "Hmmm, maybe he's not ready yet to fight with a black dragon." > > 1-3, given a moderately cautious and minimally competent strategic > approach --> which is to say, much too tough for some modern talk-talk > roleplayers, > but a> tad easy for experienced tacticians. > > > > Seriously though, I've seen some "yack-yackers" who are capable of > sound > "dongeon tactics", and some "hack and slashers" who's main response to > any > encounter is charge the biggest monster immediately. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 12:30:32 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants On Mon, 24 Aug 1998, SteelAngel wrote: > On Mon, 24 Aug 1998, James Ruhland wrote: > > I'm vaguely aware, but my main point was not to use a *direct* link to > > current religions, and try to disguise the name somewhat (I.E. not call > > them "Angels"). > IMC, I have a major Immortal ruler who has a servant race called Seraphis > (male) And Sephia (female) They're just like "angels" except that they are > mostly human of stature, with the reqisite wings (Seraphis have six, > Sephia have 4, and they aren't all white/gold. Some are even black!) And > they are a PC race (They are much like human avariel). I must confess that the descriptions of the Angels I made was just something I made up. I wanted a more modern western type angel than the "original" ones. Anyway..black wings? Aaargh. PS: Mystaran avariels are called e'ar(spl?) Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 16:22:17 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants On Mon, 24 Aug 1998, paul dooley wrote: > > > >I still think that this is a bit much. IMO, what is being forgotten is > that > >it costs a *LOT* of PPs to create such Servators. Initiates like > al-Kalim > >and Benekander should have few if any. Certainly not whole hosts of > them. > > Significant #s of powerful Servators should be reserved, IMO, for the > >older and higher ranking Immortals. > > But, *sigh*, I'll probably get slapped down for that opinion, too. > > > Actually I agree with you. However if these servitors were created with > the ability to propagate then given time you`ll have more than > sufficient. Spending a few more PP at the start pays of big in the long > run. BTW why are they needed at all? Why not use one of those mortals > from you home plane who`re loyal to you and jazz them up with some > magic? Much cheaper in any case because you dont lose the PP expended > in creation when it gets killed. Personally I like immortal servants, not because they are practical but because it looks _nice_ when my "gods" send an angel as a "heavenly messanger". But that is just from a GM's perspective.. Ive been thinking..(!) What if an Immortal can acquire servants in other ways than just creating them himself. Servants can be given to him by friendly immortals or he can find servants who have no master, because: a) Their master is dead b) their master has vanished c) they were created by the old ones or other phenomena. One idea: Al-kalim discovered a group of angels who were looking for their former master Sinbad. After some discussion they were convinced to serve Al-kalim untill Sinbad returns from his journey. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 13:58:42 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants On Tue, 25 Aug 1998, [iso-8859-1] Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: > "original" ones. Anyway..black wings? Aaargh. Well, they are a race, and there are genetic differences :) > PS: Mystaran avariels are called e'ar(spl?) Yep, the ee'ar. They're from Davania and will be getting rather prominent in the coming Almanacs. Though.. I think i said too much.. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 22:23:25 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants > One idea: Al-kalim discovered a group of angels who were looking for their > former master Sinbad. After some discussion they were convinced to serve > Al-kalim untill Sinbad returns from his journey. > One question: Do you really believe that angels are appropiate servants for Al-Kalim? Al-Kalim resembles to the muslim's Allah, and I can't remember angels in Islam. Should anybody have exact informations, please tell it to me. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #588 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, August 26 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 589 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Benny Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants [MYSTARA] - info Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Benny Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Benny [MYSTARA] - Catching up: 11-15 August [MYSTARA] - Princess Ark stuff [MYSTARA] - AD&D topics on the MML (was Re: Catching up: 11-15 August) Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants RE: [MYSTARA] - AD&D topics on the MML (was Re: Catching up: 11-15 August) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 18:09:29 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants On Tue, 25 Aug 1998, Jamuga Khan wrote: > and I can't remember angels in Islam. Should anybody have > exact informations, please tell it to me. IIRC, Islam has Angels, as Gabriel appeared to Mohammed on the mount near Mecca. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 00:00:17 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Benny In a message dated 1998-08-25 00:40:50 Eastern Daylight Time, eand@WPI.EDU writes: > Benekander is Sphere of Matter, right? > > Why not put his homer plane as the home plane of most younger matter > immortals? > Or whatever major home plane of the sphere he's in? That's I think the > default home plane for Immortals of the spheres. Actually he is an Initiate of the Sphere of Energy, which means that he gets to share a home plane with Rad and Ixion. Now that could be interesting! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 00:30:42 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants In a message dated 1998-08-25 14:23:25 Eastern Daylight Time, eand@WPI.EDU writes: > Yep, the ee'ar. They're from Davania and will be getting rather prominent > in the coming Almanacs. Though.. I think i said too much.. Interesting -- Bruce Heard's article in Dragon #200 placed them on the Arm of the Immortals peninsula. But I guess I should be glad to hear that they are not limited to that region. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 02:16:13 -0500 From: John Normand Subject: [MYSTARA] - info can anyone tell me how to tranzlate a MarvelSAGA character into AD&D rules in an AD&D realm. do you consider willpower= charisma?srength=strength&constitution? intellect=intelligence& wisdom? agility=dexterety? what would be my level? thank you email: johnfoxx@bellsouth.net icq: 7254288 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 17:52:04 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants On Tue, 25 Aug 1998, Jamuga Khan wrote: > > One idea: Al-kalim discovered a group of angels who were looking for > their > > former master Sinbad. After some discussion they were convinced to serve > > Al-kalim untill Sinbad returns from his journey. > One question: Do you really believe that angels are appropiate > servants for Al-Kalim? Al-Kalim resembles to the muslim's Allah, > and I can't remember angels in Islam. Should anybody have > exact informations, please tell it to me. As MAx mentioned, Gabriel is mentioned. >From my not very interesting In Nomine page: "Earl Wajenberg wrote: The "old story" you mention, about Lucifer falling because he would not bow down to Adam, comes from the Koran: "And when We said to the angels: Make obeisance to Adam; they made obeisance, but Iblis (did it not). He said: Shall I make obeisance to him whom Thou hast created of dust?" -- 17.61: " Djinn/Genies could also be appropriate I suppose. Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 12:30:06 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Benny On Wed, 26 Aug 1998 Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: > Actually he is an Initiate of the Sphere of Energy, which means that he gets > to share a home plane with Rad and Ixion. Now that could be interesting! not nessecarliy. Rad and Ixion could have seperate home planes. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 11:58:42 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Benny > > not nessecarliy. > Rad and Ixion could have seperate home planes. > I, myself, vastly prefered the old Gold Box system where *everyone* had their Own Private Idaho. Perhaps, to combine the "common home plane" idea with the "to each their own" concept, Immortals who desire it could have linked their Home Planes to a common "Sphere meeting ground". Thus giving an impression of having the "same" home plane, but in reality, not. IMO, the individual Home Plane idea from the Gold Box set was one of the best, and should be kept as much as possible. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 14:08:06 EDT From: ExTSR@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Catching up: 11-15 August Alignments again... Foistoval (as Curly useta say), what's all this AD&D stuff doing on a Mystara list? Sigh... but anyhow (taking the bait): Most FRPs, including D&D and AD&D, portray absolutes and archetypes. In so doing, the very labeling of creatures as Lawful, Chaotic, Good, or Evil is cartoonish and lacking in dimension. But we accept that as a reasonable compromise satisfying novices and experienced players alike. Those on the higher end are free to modify or even reject alignments, of course. But it works as an oversimplification of worldview philosophies reduced to a game mechanic. I suggest you treat it as such, and leave the ranting to perfectionists. Jenni's "Personal Code" questionnaire is interesting, if you like that sort of thing. If your group gets into deep analysis of the inner thoughts of a fictional character who may die half an hour later, well, fine -- but be darned sure that everyone is really INTO that, and not just going along with the whims of the DM. This is a form of entertainment, remember. (Personal opinion: I find such questionnaires and codes to be blatant attempts to pile additional unwanted and unnecessary work on the players and DMs. Do you want D&D or AD&D? Or worse yet, even more rule-bound systems like those from RQ or ICE? Bah humbug.) Please note that as soon as you accept the game mechanic of Law/Chaos (and/or Good/Evil) in ANY way, you're accepting a crucial philosophical point: that such values are absolute, not relative. In the realworld, of course, this would be correctly decried as bigotry -- saying (to pick a nice juicy flamable example) that since the Christian next door once cheated you, that all Christians are cheaters. <-- not personal opinion just a hypothetical so don't flame ME folks ;> Is every motivation which our cultural matrix labels "good" an absolute Good throughout the universe? I doubt it. But by accepting ANY alignment system, you're accepting such absolutes. And why not? It helps make the game playable. Such acceptance in context is reasonable, and should not imply or affect your personal realworld belief system. But of course, since we are human players of this game (or at least most of us are human; I haven't seen hard evidence yet), our personal beliefs and knowledge affect the game on a regular basis. I merely suggest that we be aware of this situation and accept the truncation and oversimplification for game purposes, lest we lose sight of the greater goal of entertainment for all. harold@grid.wizards.com commented re the Kingpriest: >>In the end, there is a debate that the Kingpriest tried to elevate himself to godhood, and that was the cause of his ultimate downfall. Wisconsin Johnson Himself, eh? Poor ol' Kingpriest committed the classic poker error: know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em. Raise against a god and you'd better be holding dam good cards. (Harold joined TSR just a few months before I did. In fact, he hired me. Probably the most unknown famous author of all, since he chose to remain behind the scenes. And now that I think of it -- Harold walked in one day and said "hey Frank, we need you to write IM-1 based on the title that's already been released, 'The Immortal Storm'." But then, we were all ruled by Marketing back then.) << In fact I did mean to say the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few!>> Now, now, Harold -- that phrase is probably (c) Paramount Pictures. ;> Christian Gotschi asked on 13 Aug in "How much do you specialize your game?" "Does anybody use the rules 'as is' without modification." I'm rather infamous for that. I have always used both the D&D and AD&D rules as-is, with virtually no modifications. (I *do* apply some expansions to the given rules, but carefully so as to avoid any internal system conflicts.) Otoh, every adventure I've ever run has been my own; never used the published modules. Does Aaron Nowack work for Juno.com? If not, why does he advertise their 800 number in his sig? (Refuse to wear T-shirts that advertise... unless they look kool.) Harold again: << It was not necessary for Gollum to be good in order to serve the purposes of Good. That's Fate or Destiny (which tends to have the interests of good at heart).>> Oh, Harold, really -- projecting humanistic absolutism onto such a multiversal principle? How chauvinistic. Next stop, jingoism... (Don't worry, folks, Harold and I are old friends; we can eviscerate each other and regenerate within minutes.) Håvard offered, on 15 Aug in "Immortal Ressurection" [sic]: <> Not bad -- but this inherently places Entropy above all others, as final judge & jury on all things. Obviously not so. Since Entropy does have the edge in the long run (as all things tend to run down, i.e. the classic definition of entropy), it has great patience in achieving its goals. Imho, if any immortal is unlucky or stupid enough to be slain, that should be it; there are plenty of applicants. Think of it as evolution in action [Niven], and/or a local winner of the multiversal Darwin award for chlorinating the gene pool. Håvard, later: << See, its easy to make up excuses so my theories don't conflict 'canon'. I think I should become a lawyer...>> Ah, Lawful Neutral with evil tendencies, eh? Inconu commented on 15 Aug in re "FRPG Personal Code": <> A voice of pragmatism! Hear hear. Nor for a 2nd level, or 12th, or 22nd - -- unless you want to. More later... - -- Frank Mentzer ______________________________________________________ Spam the spammers; it demolishes their profitability. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 11:14:09 PDT From: "Buck Satan" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Princess Ark stuff Does anyone know anything about all the Princess Ark Articles that were supposed to be compiled into one file? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 12:18:20 -0700 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: [MYSTARA] - AD&D topics on the MML (was Re: Catching up: 11-15 August) Hello all. First, I just wanted to comment that I've been abnormally quiet lately due to a severe downturn in energy level -- being a "Portable Incubator" does that to a gal. :-P I've pretty much kept up with reading the MML but haven't had the oomph to respond to much of anything. As for the MMB... Ack! I'm almost afraid to go look now for fear of being overwhelmed by the millions of posts! In any case, the reply that I was actually energized enough to write: At 02:08 PM 8/26/98 EDT, ExTSR@aol.com wrote: > >Alignments again... > Foistoval (as Curly useta say), what's all this AD&D stuff doing on a >Mystara list? Sigh... but anyhow (taking the bait): Well, the AD&D stuff does come up from time to time because Mystara *was* converted to AD&D right at the end there -- just before they shut it down altogether. As long as the AD&D based discussion has some relevance to the world of Mystara it is usually deemed acceptable by our "Grand Pooh-Bah", Leroy. ;-) AD&D topics are also acceptable when people are making direct comparisons between how something is (or isn't) handled in oD&D versus AD&D, since another facet of the MLL is that this is a forum for oD&D -- and probably the only one out there, really. I'd say the alignment debate mainly fell into the second category, since the arguments tended to be about whether the oD&D "L-N-C" version was preferable (or not) to the AD&D "G-N-E/L-N-C" version. As an aside, I did find it to be a very well argued debate -- people did have diverse opinions, but the list seemed to keep it's typical low-key, low-flame tone over all. I love it when the members on this list prove that this really is a list worth hanging out on. ;-) Jenni - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- PS: Speaking of 'incubation' (I was) -- For anyone that might care about this "OFF TOPIC" bit information: My "Official" due date is Septermber 18th, although the baby 'dropped' two weeks ago and (according to my Doctor) "Things could basically happen any time now...". And, no, I don't know the sex yet, but I'll be sure to let you know when I find out ;-) - --JAMM - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield http://www.jamm.com/jenni/home.html - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- strawberry@jamm.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 18:54:20 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants >One question: Do you really believe that angels are appropiate >servants for Al-Kalim? Al-Kalim resembles to the muslim's Allah, >and I can't remember angels in Islam. Should anybody have >exact informations, please tell it to me. > Yes there are angels in islam, as are demons (shaitan). Islam isn't all *that* different from Christianity, really. ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Blue Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 19:24:14 -0400 From: bcourtemanch@merrimack.edu Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - AD&D topics on the MML (was Re: Catching up: 11-15 August) Congrats to Jenni! I hope everything is coming along well. Myself being a new father (my son is 7 months old), I don't have half as much time as I used to for roleplaying, so I really enjoy this list; it keeps me in touch with fellow gamers. I do manage to play once a week, however, (alas, it's not oD&D), and my son enjoys sitting at the table and grabbing for the dice . He also has the effect of getting my friends to do the silliest things at the table to get him smiling. That's when my wife takes our son, so we can get back to the gaming issues at hand. Anyway, my apologies for going on like this, but I just wanted to wish Jenni the best with her soon-to- arrive little one, and let her know that she's not the only gamer working on the "next generation" of RPG'ers! - - Brian C. "May your next roll be a natural 20" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #589 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, August 28 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 590 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - [BLACKMOOR] Beta test of Gazetteer Re: [MYSTARA] - Princess Ark stuff Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D topics on the MML (was Re: Catching up: 11-15 August) Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Benny Re: [MYSTARA] - Catching up: 11-15 August Re: [MYSTARA] - [BLACKMOOR] Beta test of Gazetteer Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Benny RE: [MYSTARA] - [BLACKMOOR] Beta test of Gazetteer [MYSTARA] - Savage Coast/Birthright PBEM Re: [MYSTARA] - Savage Coast/Birthright PBEM Re: [MYSTARA] - Savage Coast/Birthright PBEM ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 22:42:42 -0500 From: "Zimriel" Subject: [MYSTARA] - [BLACKMOOR] Beta test of Gazetteer This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01BDD142.D5E763C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Mystarans :^) I'm the infamous Zimri from rec.games.frp.dnd - Some of you will have seen my posts there, concerning a bunch of = questions I had about the old D&D Blackmoor campaign. I also mentioned = that I had a sheaf of campaign notes. Some people have written me = asking to see those notes; and I heard a rumour that there was a demand = for a "Gazetteer". I have posted a 261 KB zip file, containing these notes in Rich Text = Format (RTF); you will need both PKZip and some RTF-enabled editor to = read them (MS Word should work). This zip file may be found in = http://home.earthlink.net/~zimriel/ as BMoor.ZIP. I love Mystara modules as much as the next man - touch my "M5: Talons of = Night" and perish . One point I need to make up front though: = this is a Blackmoor file, not a Mystara file. Mystara canon may be = affected; if so, I'll first look it up in the source material, and then = I'll probably just blame the source material ;^). This philosophy is = expanded fully in the text of the ZIP file. The questions I posed there still stand unanswered. I'm hoping someone = reads this ZIP who was actually in that campaign - Rich Snider, Greg = Svenson, Mike Carr, maybe even the great Dave Arneson himself. But even = if you weren't, you can still help by pointing out places where I = screwed up. I challenge any and all canon-tweakers to ready your tweezers - if ever = there was a project in need of hardcore nit-picking, this is it. Thanks ~! - --- Zimri - ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01BDD142.D5E763C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello Mystarans :^)  I'm the = infamous Zimri=20 from rec.games.frp.dnd -
 
Some of you will have seen my posts there, = concerning a bunch=20 of questions I had about the old D&D Blackmoor campaign.  I = also=20 mentioned that I had a sheaf of campaign notes.  Some people have = written=20 me asking to see those notes;  and I heard a rumour that there was = a demand=20 for a "Gazetteer".
 
I have posted a 261 KB zip file, containing these = notes in=20 Rich Text Format (RTF);  you will need both PKZip and some = RTF-enabled=20 editor to read them (MS Word should work).  This zip file may be = found in=20 http://home.earthlink.net/~z= imriel/=20 as BMoor.ZIP.
 
I love Mystara modules as much as = the next man -=20 touch my "M5: Talons of Night" and perish <grin>.  = One=20 point I need to make up front though:  this is a Blackmoor file, = not a=20 Mystara file.  Mystara canon may be affected;  if so, I'll = first look=20 it up in the source material, and then I'll probably just blame the = source=20 material ;^).  This philosophy is expanded fully in the text of the = ZIP=20 file.
 
The questions I posed there still stand = unanswered.  I'm=20 hoping someone reads this ZIP who was actually in that campaign - Rich = Snider,=20 Greg Svenson, Mike Carr, maybe even the great Dave Arneson = himself.  But=20 even if you weren't, you can still help by pointing out places where I = screwed=20 up.
 
I challenge any and all = canon-tweakers to ready=20 your tweezers - if ever there was a project in need of hardcore = nit-picking,=20 this is it.
 
Thanks ~!
---=20 Zimri
- ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01BDD142.D5E763C0-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 23:44:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Princess Ark stuff At 11:14 AM 8/26/98 PDT, you wrote: >Does anyone know anything about all the Princess Ark Articles that were >supposed to be compiled into one file? > That would be my compilation. Harold Johnson said he was going to ask WotC's people whether or not I was allowed to send it to listmembers. That was last week, and he hasn't gotten back to me yet. Patience, grasshoppers; the minute I know, I'll inform the list. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 23:51:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D topics on the MML (was Re: Catching up: 11-15 August) >PS: Speaking of 'incubation' (I was) -- For anyone that might care about >this "OFF TOPIC" bit information: My "Official" due date is Septermber >18th, although the baby 'dropped' two weeks ago and (according to my >Doctor) "Things could basically happen any time now...". And, no, I don't >know the sex yet, but I'll be sure to let you know when I find out ;-) >--JAMM >-- >Jenni A. M. Merrifield http://www.jamm.com/jenni/home.html Sept. 18th is a pretty good date; it's my father's birthday. He's not only a successful computer sales manager for a Chicago-based corporation, he also is half-responsible for bringing a brilliant writer, musician, and gamer into the world (me, for those who weren't paying attention). However, for sheer awesome potential, you can't beat Sept. 28, as is evidenced by myself. So if your tiny one is ten days late, you can look forward to a lifetime of marvelling at your child's incredible accomplishments and unlimited potential. All seriousness aside, however, good luck and keep us informed. And for those who care, or are willing to pretend they do, I just became an uncle last Friday; my baby sister just had her second child, her first girl. In time, I hope to get Cassandra Jean Zussino to explore Mystara, if her parents will let me :-) Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 00:24:12 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Benny In a message dated 1998-08-26 12:58:52 Eastern Daylight Time, eand@WPI.EDU writes: > not nessecarliy. > Rad and Ixion could have seperate home planes. Yes but -- imagine how interesting things would get if they did not. Ixion might have preferred Draesten as his home plane, and Rad (because of the "accidental" way he achieved Immortality) may not have had much choice in the matter. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 16:55:33 -0500 From: anowack@juno.com (Aaron E Nowack) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Catching up: 11-15 August On Wed, 26 Aug 1998 14:08:06 EDT ExTSR@aol.com writes: >Does Aaron Nowack work for Juno.com? If not, why does he advertise >their 800 >number in his sig? (Refuse to wear T-shirts that advertise... unless >they >look kool.) Nope. Juno just sticks that on the end of every message that I send (like Hotmail's "Get Free Email message). If I knew how to get rid of it I would. Aaron Nowack "In the grim darkness of the far future there is only.... SPAM." http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/5930/ _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 11:42:54 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [BLACKMOOR] Beta test of Gazetteer On Wed, 26 Aug 1998, Zimriel wrote: > Hello Mystarans :^) I'm the infamous Zimri from rec.games.frp.dnd - Hi! Never heard of you, but thats probably because I havent been to active on rec.games.frp.dnd so thats my fault. Nice to see an infamous person on the list though :) I just downloaded your file and I'll take a look at it as soon as possible. More later. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 11:47:45 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Benny On Wed, 26 Aug 1998, James Ruhland wrote: > I, myself, vastly prefered the old Gold Box system where *everyone* had > their Own Private Idaho. > Perhaps, to combine the "common home plane" idea with the "to each their > own" concept, Immortals who desire it could have linked their Home Planes > to a common "Sphere meeting ground". Thus giving an impression of having > the "same" home plane, but in reality, not. > IMO, the individual Home Plane idea from the Gold Box set was one of the > best, and should be kept as much as possible. I agree. Mystaros created homeplanes for most of the Immortals, and a complete list of these and other planes from the Mystara campaign (Canon and not so much canon) can be found at http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc/planes.html (Shameless plug) I think the idea of a Sphere meeting ground is a good idea aswell. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 12:20:35 +0200 From: Kristian Kramer Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - [BLACKMOOR] Beta test of Gazetteer >Hello Mystarans :^) I'm the infamous Zimri from rec.games.frp.dnd - Hmm, an infamous person in our mailing list. That's great! ;-) Of course I downloaded the .ZIP, I think it's a useful contribution and a lot of people have been waiting for this. (Even if they don't want to play 'in' Blackmoor, they can use some of the ideas in their own campaigns, as long as they don't forget where they got the information). Kristian Kramer fellowship@xanthus.demon.nl http://www.xanthus.demon.nl "It is better to be vaguely right, than precisely wrong." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 18:15:51 EDT From: RocksHope@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Savage Coast/Birthright PBEM (DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS E-MAIL VIA THE MAILING LISTS) The Savage Coast/Birthright PBEM game is looking for some brave souls to run the baronies, guilds, churches, tribes, and downtrodden wretches of the Savage Coast. Each player controls the regent of his realm, conducting diplomacy, waging war, and improving the lot of his people (if he's lucky). This is not a game for those amused by mere dungeon-crawls and slaying of increasingly uglier monsters. We want the truly arrogant, power-hungry tyrants (or dedicated, benevolent defenders) who feel they have what it takes to lead their people. The web page is at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/7896 And my e-mail address is: jfranklin@colemanresearch.com If you want to join, send an e-mail to me with (3) choices for realm (don't pick one of the ones already listed as having a player....) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 18:51:54 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Savage Coast/Birthright PBEM > We want the truly arrogant, power-hungry tyrants. HEY! I resemble that remark. Hmpf. *cold, malevolent glare* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 17:40:10 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Savage Coast/Birthright PBEM >increasingly uglier monsters. We want the truly arrogant, power-hungry >tyrants Heh heh heh. ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Blue Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #590 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Saturday, August 29 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 591 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re(2): [MYSTARA] - Princess Ark stuff RE: [MYSTARA] - Savage Coast/Birthright PBEM [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Nos Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants [MYSTARA] - Companion Set... Re: [MYSTARA] - Companion Set... Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Nos Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Nos Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants [MYSTARA] - [IP] Asterius Re: [MYSTARA] - Class Kits for the Known World [MYSTARA] - WHOOPS! Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Nos Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Nos Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Nos ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 08:00:42 -0700 From: harold@grid.wizards.com (Harold Johnson) Subject: Re(2): [MYSTARA] - Princess Ark stuff Glen, I have placed the inquiry with TSR regarding the "Princess Ark" files, and am having to play detective and phone tag to speak to the correct person. I have not forgotten this issue. I will try to resolve it next week. Sorry for the delay. Harold *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 17:13:20 +0200 From: Kristian Kramer Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Savage Coast/Birthright PBEM Aleksei isn't the only one, this writing was made by one hell of a arrogant power-hungry tyrant (aks my co-workers :-) Kristian Kramer (aka Xanthus Invictus) kristian.kramer@comsys.nl www.xanthus.demon.nl > -----Original Message----- > From: Aleksei Andrievski [SMTP:solmyr@kolumbus.fi] > Sent: Friday, August 28, 1998 4:40 PM > To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Savage Coast/Birthright PBEM > > >increasingly uglier monsters. We want the truly arrogant, > power-hungry > >tyrants > > Heh heh heh. > > ****************** > Aleksei Andrievski > aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Blue Star > solmyr@kolumbus.fi > Visit the Archmage's Tower at > http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html > > > ********************************************************************** > ***** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the > line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 12:16:54 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Nos No, not "Wrath of the Knife" (or even "Wrath of the Nose"), but Wrath of the Nucleus of the Spheres*. Following the events of WotI, the NoS was altered to draw negative energy (from Entropy, in effect) rather than draining the Sphere of Energy. I'm curious as to what future ramifications this might have (and I appologize if this topic has come up before). I understand everything response will be opinion, but that's what this forum is for. 8-) Day of Dread: will the SoEnergy eventually "recuperate", and the DoDread end? Or is this event permanent? Effects on Entropy: will it be drained similar to what would have happened to the Sphere of Energy (I.E. for the SoE, it would have ultimately resulted in a nul magic world). Or is Entropy so potent a force that the affects of the Nucleus will be unoticable? If the former, then what affects are recomended (silver doesn't tarnish? Wood doesn't rot? bodies don't decay?) over time. If the later, please expain. Reaction of Entropy: This was quite a setback (Stroke) vs. Entropy, I would imagine that the Entropic immortals would take an attitude that would make Ixion's seem like a model of relaxed forebearance. Reaction of Energy: This is quite a benifit for them. Not only are they possibly the most dominant Sphere already (buku Immortals are of the Energy Sphere), but now they have the oportunity to make new Immortals at the expense of Entropy (I.E. almost gratus for them); Ixion's position regarding the NoS may do a 180 as a result (but, he in particular, is so prideful, he won't admit he might have been wrong. However, his position would be that "circumstances have changed"). Reaction of other Spheres: Energy already is in a semi-dominant position in Mystara (c.f. above, re. numerous Energy Immortals). Them getting another advantage may slag off the others. Plus, "enlightened" others may realize that a weakened Entropy sphere (Entropy being not only an agent of destruction, but an agent that promotes change & evolution, by destroying the old to make way for the new. I.E. take something mundane: if bodies don't decay, or if mortals stop aging and dying, then there isn't room for a new generation to make its mark). What might they do? *Btw, there's a great Dr. Who, "The Invisible Enemy", with this "Nucleus" dude. "Contact has been made" -- K-9. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 21:32:32 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants > Yes there are angels in islam, as are demons (shaitan). Islam isn't all *that* different from Christianity, really. > Yes, they're both Jewish cults. Funny that all three are constantly squabbling against each other. The usual family disputes I assume. :-) O.k., we've strayed enough, let's go back to Mystara. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 16:14:56 CDT From: "Ceaf Lewis" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Companion Set... Yeah, that's right. Just totally ignore me. Visit my web page at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arena/9442 Ceaf Lewis lordceaf@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 16:58:39 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Companion Set... > > Yeah, that's right. Just totally ignore me. > Problem with what you want, IIRC, is that they are rules on I.E. becoming an Immortal and Wrestling. What makes it a problem is: 1) the rules are long, and someone would have to transcribe them into an e-mail just for you. Would be easier if you could find someone who could photocopy them for you. BUT 2) the rules are copywrited. We get away with a bit of sending copywrited materiels over the mails, but probably shouldn't do it extensively. The best thing to do would be to find a hobby shop (and there are several) that deals with out of print materiels, and get a copy of the boxed set. Shouldn't be exorbitantly expensive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 21:57:33 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Nos > Following the events of WotI, the NoS was altered to draw negative energy >(from Entropy, in effect) rather than draining the Sphere of Energy. I'm >curious as to what future ramifications this might have (and I appologize >if this topic has come up before). I understand everything response will be >opinion, but that's what this forum is for. 8-) I believe that Bruce Heard has posted an extensive write-up on this; it can be found on Stan's site IIRC. However, I don't completely agree with Bruce, (*casts Immunity to Normal Weapons*) so I will post my opinions below. > Day of Dread: will the SoEnergy eventually "recuperate", and the DoDread >end? Or is this event permanent? I don't think that making it permanent would be that bad. After all, it happens only once a year. It also knocks down those almighty mages a bit (this is coming from a mage fan). However, although the NoS used the magical energy of the world, energy doesn't just disappear, it gets converted into something else. In this case, I'd say it powers the Immortals that are connected to the NoS (Rad, Rafiel, Benekander). If so, one way of removing the negative effects could be to return the energy back into Mystara, which would presumably mean stripping those Immortals of power, or at least some of them. Basically, IMO the NoS only actually drains energy when new Immortals are created (because it 'ties up' that energy into them). When the NoS is used for other things, it actually releases the energy back into the world (since spells are being cast and the energy released, which presumably 'recycles' it). > Effects on Entropy: will it be drained similar to what would have happened >to the Sphere of Energy (I.E. for the SoE, it would have ultimately >resulted in a nul magic world). Or is Entropy so potent a force that the >affects of the Nucleus will be unoticable? If the former, then what affects >are recomended (silver doesn't tarnish? Wood doesn't rot? bodies don't >decay?) over time. If the later, please expain. Good question. I'd say it's been too little time for anyone to worry about depletion of Entropy. After all Energy was drained for 150 years before noticeable effects showed up. Additionally, as with the sphere of Energy, Entropy would only be really drained if Entropic Immortals were made with the NoS, which hasn't happened yet (unless the Almanac Team takes my idea on that... hint hint). > Reaction of Entropy: This was quite a setback (Stroke) vs. Entropy, I >would imagine that the Entropic immortals would take an attitude that would >make Ixion's seem like a model of relaxed forebearance. Well, not necessarily. After all while the NoS drained Energy, many Energy Immortals were still fascinated with it and studied it because it advanced their cause at the same time (making new Immortals, promoting magic, etc.) IMO the Entropics would also try to find ways to make the NoS serve their purposes (such as the aforementioned making of new Entropic Immortals). > Reaction of Energy: This is quite a benifit for them. Not only are they >possibly the most dominant Sphere already (buku Immortals are of the Energy >Sphere), but now they have the oportunity to make new Immortals at the >expense of Entropy (I.E. almost gratus for them); Ixion's position >regarding the NoS may do a 180 as a result (but, he in particular, is so >prideful, he won't admit he might have been wrong. However, his position >would be that "circumstances have changed"). I believe Bruce mentioned that the NoS is now an artifact of Entropy, producing Entropic Immortals. However, IMO it shouldn't be quite like that. Artifacts don't just change their sphere willy-nilly. I think the NoS is still an artifact of Energy, but since it is using the power of Entropy, it is also 'corrupted' by that power. Hence, it could be used for the purposes of both Energy and Entropy (e.g. making both kinds of Immortals). Ixion would likely devote his time to trying to remove the taint of Entropy, also because Energy doesn't need anymore bad PR. While someone like Thanatos would likely try to corrupt it further. > Reaction of other Spheres: Energy already is in a semi-dominant position >in Mystara (c.f. above, re. numerous Energy Immortals). Them getting >another advantage may slag off the others. Plus, "enlightened" others may >realize that a weakened Entropy sphere (Entropy being not only an agent of >destruction, but an agent that promotes change & evolution, by destroying >the old to make way for the new. I.E. take something mundane: if bodies >don't decay, or if mortals stop aging and dying, then there isn't room for >a new generation to make its mark). What might they do? > Thought would likely try to shut down the NoS completely (since it opposes Energy and is also fairly hostile to Entropy). Time would probably try to eliminate the effects on Entropy, especially if they mean that 'nothing changes' (since time usually brings change). Matter probably wouldn't care as much, since if nothing ever decays, that means more matter is left in existence. ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Blue Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 11:46:56 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Nos >Good question. I'd say it's been too little time for anyone to worry about depletion of Entropy. After all >Energy was drained for 150 years before noticeable effects showed up. Additionally, as with the >sphere of Energy, Entropy would only be really drained if Entropic Immortals were made with the NoS, >which hasn't happened yet (unless the Almanac Team takes my idea on that... hint hint). Well, I dont know what it says in the original Glantri gaz, but in G:KoM the drain was measured in rad force units. And the amount of drain each year was dependent on the number of wizards using the Radiance. Given that there are probably a lot more Radiance wizards than there were 150 years ago, I imagine the drain will be proceeding at a fairly rapid pace (50 years?). Which brings us onto another question. Originally Radiance magic was all about controlling the fabric of magic - with spells the saturate the area with magic, boost magical spells etc. If the NoS was now an Entropic force, surely the very Radiance spells would change. The spell that amps up magic within an area of effect (Saturation, i think its called) should now destroy magic in the area of effect, making a dead magic zone. That sort of thing. >I believe Bruce mentioned that the NoS is now an artifact of Entropy, producing Entropic Immortals. >However, IMO it shouldn't be quite like that. Artifacts don't just change their sphere willy-nilly. I think the >NoS is still an artifact of Energy, but since it is using the power of Entropy, it is also 'corrupted' by that >power. Hence, it could be used for the purposes of both Energy and Entropy (e.g. making both kinds >of Immortals). Ixion would likely devote his time to trying to remove the taint of Entropy, also because >Energy doesn't need anymore bad PR. While someone like Thanatos would likely try to corrupt it >further. Sounds good to me. To be honest, I dont actually like the idea of it draining Entropy (Shock! Horror!). Fortunately the event isnt going to happen for a while yet anyway - if people can actually flesh out on the MML the ramifications of it drawing upon Entropy, and I think that its cool, then I'll be up for it, but otherwise i think it will stay Energy IMC. BTW - If it is drawing upon Entropy, and Rad gets sucked into it (and maybe gets his Immortality back later on) should Rad now be a corrupted Energy Immortal? Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 06:19:03 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants >Ive been thinking..(!) >What if an Immortal can acquire servants in other ways than just creating >them himself. Not a bad idea as long as the originator is mentioned somewhere. I think though that the upper limit for any non personally created beings has to be `titan` status from WotI otherwise we have a race much preferableto PCs since they start out much more powerful and can still become immortal. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 06:49:40 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants >O.k., we've strayed enough, let's go back to Mystara. > > > > Jamuga Khan > > > >"Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." > Ok it`s off topic but why didn`t you tell us John Wayne was your big brother? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 16:13:12 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: [MYSTARA] - [IP] Asterius Asterius (Bringer of Wealth) Intermediate Power of the Outlands, N/Eternal of Thought, N PORTFOLIO: Trade, merchants, thieves, travelers, the moon ALIASES: Belnos (Robrenn), Ashtiru (Ylaruam), Asuradha (Sind), Munes (Nithia), Asterios (Traldar, Milenia) DOMAIN: Outlands/the Marketplace Eternal DATE OF ASCENSION: 3500 BC SPONSOR: Korotiku ALLIES: Korotiku, Ixion, Sharpcrest FOES: Thanatos, Iliric, Talitha SYMBOL: The moon WAL: Any Asterius was a thief and later a merchant in ancient Blackmoor. He quested for Immortality under the sponsorship of Korotiku and has remained a patron of both thieves and merchants. The Church CLERGY: Priests, druids (Robrenn) CAL: Any (any non-lawful if worship the thievery aspect) WEAPONS: Standard, plus dagger ARMOR: Up to chain mail, no shields MAJOR SPHERES: All, Astral, Charm, Guardian, Protection, Sun, Travelers MINOR SPHERES: Creation, Divination, Healing, Thought GRANTED POWERS: Move Silently and Hide in Shadows as thief of equal level BONUS PROFS: Appraising, Bargaining DOGMA: Asterius encourages his followers to seek wealth and profits. However, he dislikes excessive greed and discourages bringing utter ruination to others by seeking wealth (that is more in the domain of Talitha and Iliric). Instead, if by gaining wealth, his followers happen to bring profit to others as well, Asterius likes that most of all. DAY-TO-DAY ACTIVITIES: The priests of Asterius are called Silverobes, because of their ceremonial garments. Priests who worship him as patron of merchants often engage in trade themselves; the priests of Asterius in Darokin are especially successful merchants. Those who honor him as patron of thieves are often members of thieves' guilds, administering to the religious needs of other members and helping them plan their activities. In Robrenn, druids of Belnos handle exports of goods from the country (most of these goods are nature's products). IMPORTANT CEREMONIES/HOLY DAYS: Klarmont 14th is the Mercantilia, a day celebrating wealth and its availability to everyone. It is said that on this day, worshippers of Asterius receive special boons from their patron: thieves find their skills enhanced, merchants make especially profitable deals, and other followers come upon good fortune. MAJOR CENTERS OF WORSHIP: Asterius is worshipped in many places, since trade and thieves are part of many cultures. He has large followings in Darokin and Karameikos (he is one of the patrons of these countries' respective churches), Thyatis, and Sind (where he is known as Asuradha). Before the coming of Al-Kalim he was honored in Ylaruam as Ashtiru, and he is still known by that name among the Ylari citizens of Tel Akbir and Biazzan. In Robrenn, he is followed by the duids as Belnos, patron of trade and healers. He is part of the Nithian pantheon as Munes. And the Traldar and Milenians know him as Asterios. AFFILIATED ORDERS: Asterius has no special orders, since he does not elevate some of his followers above the others. PRIESTLY VESTMENTS: Clergy of Asterius don garments with silver ornaments when performing special rituals. ADVENTURING GARB: Adventuring clergy wear a silver moon medallion on their neck. Asterian Spells Transform Wealth (Alteration) Level: 2 Sphere: Creation Range: 30' Components: V, S Duration: Permanent Casting Time: 1r Area of Effect: All material wealth in a 1' cube Saving Throw: Neg. This spell transforms one type of material wealth (coins, gems, jewelry) into another. Thus for example coins can be transformed into less unwieldy gems. Objects that are not purely material riches (such as art objects or an expensive house) are not affected. Five percent of the transformed items' value is lost as a sacrifice to Asterius. This spell can be cast on unwilling targets (e.g. to encumber them by transforming their gems into coins), but they gain a saving throw. The spell must be cast on specific, visible items, not randomly in hopes of 'catching' some possible items into the area of effect. ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Blue Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 07:16:07 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Class Kits for the Known World >From: "Galwylin" >To: >Subject: [MYSTARA] - Class Kits for the Known World >Date: Sun, 7 Jun 1998 02:10:55 -0500 >Reply-To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM > >Here's a short list from the AD&D series of Complete Handbooks that I thi= >nk >would work in eastern Brun (and where). What I really like about these >books is that they give you a different interpretation of classes. The >NWPs and bonus aren't the best part as much as the ideas a kit can give >you. > >Fighter: > Barbarian (Ethengar, Northern Reaches) > Beast-Rider (Atruaghin, Ethengar) > Berserker (Ethengar, Northern Reaches) > Cavalier > Gladiator (Thyatis) > Myrmidon > Noble Warrior > Peasant Hero > Pirate/Outlaw (Sea of Dread) > Samurai (Ochalea) > Savage (Atruaghin) > Swashbuckler (Darokin) > Wilderness Warrior >Thief: > Acrobat > Adventurer > Assassin > Bandit > Beggar > Bounty Hunter > Buccaneer (Sea of Dread) > Burgler > Cutpurse > Fence > Investigator > Scout > Smuggler > Spy > Swashbuckler (Darokin) > Swindler > Thug > Troubleshooter >Priest: > Barbarian/Berserker Priest (Northern Reaches) > Fighting-Monk (Ochalea) > Nobleman Priest > Outlaw Priest > Pacifist Priest > Peasant Priest > Prophet Priest > Savage Priest > Scholar Priest >Wizards: > Academician > Anagakok > Militant Wizard (Thyatis) > Mystic > Patrician > Peasant Wizard > Savage Wizard > Witch > Wu Jen (Ochalea) >Dwarves: > Animal Master > Axe for Hire > Battlerager > Champion > Clansdwarf > Crafts Priest > Diplomat > Entertainer > Ghetto Fighter > Hearth Guard > Highborn > Locksmith > Outcast > Pariah > Patrician > Pest Controller > Rapid Response Rider > Ritual Priest > Sharpshooter > Temple Guard > Trader > Vermin Slayer > Vindicator > Wayfinder >Elves: > Archer > Bladesinger > Collector > Elven Minstrel > Herbalist > Huntsman > Spellfilcher > Undead Slayer > War Wizard > Wilderness Runner > Windrider >Halflings: > Archer > Bandit > Bilker > Burglar > Cartographer > Forestwalker > Healer > Homesteader > Leaftender > Mercenary > Oracle > Sheriff > Smuggler > Squire > Trader > Traveler > Tunnelrats > Urchin > >--=20 >This has been a Galwylin=A9 Production > >The Tome of Galwylin (http://www.airnet.net/galwylin) > >galwylin@airnet.net | ICQ #6755972 | AIM: Galwylin > > >---------- >> From: BoBoII@aol.com >> To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM >> Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rangers >> Date: Sunday, June 07, 1998 1:07 AM >>=20 >> Is it just me, or do rangers start to resemble a REALLY fleshed out kit >as >> more time goes by? >>=20 >> Before I'm baraged with arguement on this point, had anyone out there g= >ot >> suggestions for kit types in Eastern Brun? (non-SC) Specificity to >Nations >> would be helpful. I know several people have mentioned the application = >of >Al- >> Quadim to the Emirates . . . any others? > >*************************************************************************= >** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the li= >ne >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 07:20:00 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: [MYSTARA] - WHOOPS! Sorry about that last post it got sent before I readdressed it. I`ll try not to let it happen again! <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 09:22:31 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Nos > > > Well, I dont know what it says in the original Glantri gaz, but in G:KoM the > drain was measured in rad force units. > Problem with G:KoM, is that it adopts the Radiance depletion rules from the original Glantri gaz. in toto: in other words, as if WotI didn't take place at all. IMO, this is unacceptable, and an example of, to be critical, poor design (they should've given some thought to the effects of the change). Similarly, your comments that spells could/should be different reflect this problem. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 10:30:27 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants In a message dated 1998-08-29 09:51:59 Eastern Daylight Time, ezaqwazy@hotmail.com writes: > Not a bad idea as long as the originator is mentioned somewhere. I think > though that the upper limit for any non personally created beings has to > be `titan` status from WotI otherwise we have a race much preferableto > PCs since they start out much more powerful and can still become > immortal. Of course none of this should rule out actual "master-servant" relationships among true Immortals. There certainly seem to be a few Immortals (such as Mealiden) who serve other Immortals (in Mealiden's case, Ilsundal) in return for a share of the power from the superior Immortal's followers. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 09:55:43 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Nos > > I believe that Bruce Heard has posted an extensive write-up on this; it can be found on Stan's site IIRC. However, I don't completely agree with Bruce, (*casts Immunity to Normal Weapons*) so I will post my opinions below. > *Casts Immunity on self, to insure avoidance of collateral damage*. Btw, what's the URL to Stan's site? > > I don't think that making it permanent would be that bad. After all, it happens only > once a year. > Yah, but I hate it. OTOH, there should (probably) be long term ramifications for using the NoS. Yah, but wadda ya gonna do. > Basically, IMO the NoS only actually drains energy when new Immortals are created (because it 'ties up' that energy into them). When the NoS is used for other things, it actually releases the energy back into the world (since spells are being cast and the energy released, which presumably 'recycles' it). > That doesn't seem to be true, at least not per the old Radiance rules, for when it drew on Energy. The Rad depletion was based on # of users (total), not # of Immortals created. > > Well, not necessarily. After all while the NoS drained Energy, many Energy Immortals were still fascinated with it and studied it because it advanced their cause at the same time (making new Immortals, promoting magic, etc.) IMO the Entropics would also try to find ways to make the NoS serve their purposes (such as the aforementioned making of new Entropic Immortals). > If you assume that Entropic Immortals can be created with the NoS, then you might be right. OTOH, I don't think the NoS can/should be used to create BOTH Entropic & Energy Immortals. It should either be able to aid in the elivation of mortals to Immortality in one Sphere (Entropy OR Energy), or in all Spheres (as a side effect of the alteration of the NoS in WotI). IMO, it would still be pumping out* Energy Immortals, but not Entropic Immortals, since only the source of "funding" (theoretically) was altered, and with it what is being drained. Btw, 150 years may be a long time to mortals, but not to Immortals. *exageration. > > I believe Bruce mentioned that the NoS is now an artifact of Entropy, producing > Entropic Immortals. However, IMO it shouldn't be quite like that. Artifacts don't > just change their sphere willy-nilly. > Well, 1) it wasn't changed willy-nilly BUT 2) if it produces Entropic Immortals (only), then it is now beyond the pale for PCs to use it to become Immortals. IMO, not a huge loss, but in some sense a significant one, since one of the "canon"-type campaign uses for Glantri and/or GKoM is/was a goal of seeking Immortality via the Radiance. 3) And: Unless the Old Ones are like the Shadows from B5, I doubt they'd draw Rad into the NoS in order to corrupt it/him into being a tool of Entropy. OTOH, they might, if they wanted to keep the "balance*", they might do it, I suppose. *I DESPISE entities who's only (or primary) goal is "maintaining the balance". IMO, a weak excuse for existance, even/especially in a game. The Old Ones better have a more significant purpose in life than that. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 19:18:45 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Nos On Sat, 29 Aug 1998, James Ruhland wrote: > > Well, I dont know what it says in the original Glantri gaz, but in G:KoM > the > > drain was measured in rad force units. > Problem with G:KoM, is that it adopts the Radiance depletion rules from the > original Glantri gaz. in toto: in other words, as if WotI didn't take place > at all. IMO, this is unacceptable, and an example of, to be critical, poor > design (they should've given some thought to the effects of the change). Yep, this is obviously a) an error or b) a result ofthe fact that the creators of the boxed set didnt know what they were doing. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #591 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Sunday, August 30 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 592 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants Re: [MYSTARA] - [IP] Asterius Re: [MYSTARA] - [IP] Asterius Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Nos Re: [MYSTARA] - [IP] Asterius [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Aaron Allston Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Nos Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Aaron Allston Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Aaron Allston [MYSTARA] - Off topic about Hexen2 Re: [MYSTARA] - Off topic about Hexen2 [MYSTARA] - Use of Poison Re: [MYSTARA] - Use of Poison R: [MYSTARA] - Use of Poison [MYSTARA] - [OT] Mystara the best in the world [MYSTARA] - Fantasy Empires Re: [MYSTARA] - Off topic about Hexen2 Re: [MYSTARA] - Off topic about Hexen2 Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 19:44:34 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants On Sat, 29 Aug 1998 Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 1998-08-29 09:51:59 Eastern Daylight Time, > ezaqwazy@hotmail.com writes: > > > Not a bad idea as long as the originator is mentioned somewhere. I think > > though that the upper limit for any non personally created beings has to > > be `titan` status from WotI otherwise we have a race much preferableto > > PCs since they start out much more powerful and can still become > > immortal. > Of course none of this should rule out actual "master-servant" relationships > among true Immortals. There certainly seem to be a few Immortals (such > as Mealiden) who serve other Immortals (in Mealiden's case, Ilsundal) in > return for a share of the power from the superior Immortal's followers. Good point. In fact maybe this should be further developed. All of the norse Immortals for instance are probably servants of Odin. Maybe the immortal society should be even more hierarchical? Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 11:57:54 -0700 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [IP] Asterius At 04:13 PM 8/29/98 +0300, Aleksei Andrievski wrote: >Asterius >(Bringer of Wealth) >[...] >Asterian Spells >Transform Wealth (Alteration) >Level: 2 >[...] Oooooo.... I just had to say I *like* this spell! Did you invent it or is it from somewhere specific? And it just so happens that there is a Temple of Asterius of some importance in my current campaign (not that the PC's have figured that out yet...), so this bit of your Immortals Project might actually prove useful sooner rather than later ;-) Jenni - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs strawberry@jamm.com <==> http://www.jamm.com/ <------------------------------------------------------------------> God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. Then God started to think: "I should create things I *like*!" And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 22:25:05 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [IP] Asterius > Oooooo.... I just had to say I *like* this spell! Did you invent it or >is it from somewhere specific? > I invented it on my own (though I don't know if there are any similar spells anywhere, since AD&D has so da** many spells :) > And it just so happens that there is a Temple of Asterius of some >importance in my current campaign (not that the PC's have figured that out >yet...), so this bit of your Immortals Project might actually prove useful >sooner rather than later ;-) > Good to know that it's useful to somebody :) ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Blue Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 22:11:11 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Nos On Sat, 29 Aug 1998, James Ruhland wrote: > Btw, what's the URL to Stan's site? http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/imm.html Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 22:16:37 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [IP] Asterius On Sat, 29 Aug 1998, Aleksei Andrievski wrote: > Asterius > > The Church > CLERGY: Priests, druids (Robrenn) > CAL: Any (any non-lawful if worship the thievery aspect) > WEAPONS: Standard, plus dagger > ARMOR: Up to chain mail, no shields > MAJOR SPHERES: All, Astral, Charm, Guardian, Protection, Sun, Travelers > MINOR SPHERES: Creation, Divination, Healing, Thought > GRANTED POWERS: Move Silently and Hide in Shadows as thief of equal level > BONUS PROFS: Appraising, Bargaining > DOGMA: Asterius encourages his followers to seek wealth and profits. However, he dislikes excessive greed and discourages bringing utter ruination to others by seeking wealth (that is more in the domain of Talitha and Iliric). Instead, if by gaining wealth, his followers happen to bring profit to others as well, Asterius likes that most of all. > DAY-TO-DAY ACTIVITIES: The priests of Asterius are called Silverobes, because of their ceremonial garments. Priests who worship him as patron of merchants often engage in trade themselves; the priests of Asterius in Darokin are especially successful merchants. Those who honor him as patron of thieves are often members of thieves' guilds, administering to the religious needs of other members and helping them plan their activities. In Robrenn, druids of Belnos handle exports of goods from the country (most of these goods are nature's products). > IMPORTANT CEREMONIES/HOLY DAYS: Klarmont 14th is the Mercantilia, a day celebrating wealth and its availability to everyone. It is said that on this day, worshippers of Asterius receive special boons from their patron: thieves find their skills enhanced, merchants make especially profitable deals, and other followers come upon good fortune. > MAJOR CENTERS OF WORSHIP: Asterius is worshipped in many places, since trade and thieves are part of many cultures. He has large followings in Darokin and Karameikos (he is one of the patrons of these countries' respective churches), Thyatis, and Sind (where he is known as Asuradha). Before the coming of Al-Kalim he was honored in Ylaruam as Ashtiru, and he is still known by that name among the Ylari citizens of Tel Akbir and Biazzan. In Robrenn, he is followed by the duids as Belnos, patron of trade and healers. He is part of the Nithian pantheon as Munes. And the Traldar and Milenians know him as Asterios. > AFFILIATED ORDERS: Asterius has no special orders, since he does not elevate some of his followers above the others. > PRIESTLY VESTMENTS: Clergy of Asterius don garments with silver ornaments when performing special rituals. > ADVENTURING GARB: Adventuring clergy wear a silver moon medallion on their neck. The description of the church should vary for each country, really. This would be a considerable amount of work though, so I guess this will have to do for now... :) Good work Aleksei! Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 22:50:46 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Aaron Allston Has anybody been in contact with this man? I know he had a homepage somewhere. Does anyone have the adress? Thankyou. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Ah Gandhi! What a Mensch. And he looked good in a robe too!" -Douglas Wambaugh, Picket Fences. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 22:53:20 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Nos On Sat, 29 Aug 1998, Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: > On Sat, 29 Aug 1998, James Ruhland wrote: > > > Btw, what's the URL to Stan's site? > > http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/imm.html Err..correction: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/ sorry about that Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Ah Gandhi! What a Mensch. And he looked good in a robe too!" -Douglas Wambaugh, Picket Fences. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 18:27:45 EDT From: DrklngMuse@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Aaron Allston In a message dated 8/29/98 3:31:14 PM Mountain Daylight Time, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no writes: > Aaron Allston http://www.io.com/~allston/ I believe you can still find his page here. Ryan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 18:45:00 -0700 From: "M. W. Miller II" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Aaron Allston aaron allston's webpage is at: http://www.io.com/~allston/ mike miller *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 00:30:37 -0000 From: dlegend@earthlink.net Subject: [MYSTARA] - Off topic about Hexen2 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BDD3AD.68A52BE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I was just wondering how many people here own Hexen 2 game. For those = who don't know Hexen2 is a 3d perspective game like Doom but in a = Medieval fantasy setting.=20 For those who have the game and those who just want to see what it is, = go to www.hexenworld.com and http://www.hexenworld.com/hosted1.html People at Hexenworld have made multi-player add-ons and are working on = expansions to the game. One multi-player add-on is Siege where there are = two teams: defenders and attackers, and the attackers goal is the break = in to the defender's castle and capture the crown. The defenders goal = (if you haven't guessed) is to prevent the attackers from capturing the = crown. Siege has a new dwarf character, and the other characters have = been modified.=20 Some players are currently working on Lord of the Rings Siege where you = can be a hobbit. I am also working on a Siege map of my own and I would like to see a = Mystara mod for hexen2. Any C programmers out there?=20 Hope to see some of you in the battle fields. Note: I don't work for Raven, I just want to expand our small Hexen2 = community. We would like to see more players. Many hexen2 owners don't = know hexenworld exist and I just want to inform them.=20 Please excuse me for this off topic post.=20 Dlegend@earthlink.net=20 I'm am known as The Shadowlord in Hexenworld - ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BDD3AD.68A52BE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I was just wondering how many people = here own=20 Hexen 2 game. For those who don't know Hexen2 is a 3d perspective game = like Doom=20 but in a Medieval fantasy setting.
 
For those who have the game and = those who just=20 want to see what it is, go to www.hexenworld.com  and http://www.hexenworld.com= /hosted1.html
 
People at Hexenworld have made multi-player add-ons = and are=20 working on expansions to the game. One multi-player add-on is Siege = where there=20 are two teams: defenders and attackers, and the attackers goal is the = break in=20 to the defender's castle and capture the crown. The defenders goal (if = you=20 haven't guessed) is to prevent the attackers from capturing the crown. = Siege has=20 a new dwarf character, and the other characters have been modified.=20
Some players are currently working on Lord of the = Rings Siege=20 where you can be a hobbit.
I am also working on a Siege map of my own and I = would like to=20 see a Mystara mod for hexen2. Any C programmers out there?
 
Hope to see some of you in the battle = fields.
 
Note: I don't work for Raven, I just want to expand = our small=20 Hexen2 community. We would like to see more players. Many hexen2 owners = don't=20 know hexenworld exist and I just want to inform them.
 
Please excuse me for this off topic post. =
 
Dlegend@earthlink.net =
I'm am known as The Shadowlord in=20 Hexenworld
- ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BDD3AD.68A52BE0-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 23:49:45 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Off topic about Hexen2 I was just wondering how many people here own Hexen 2 game. This is *so* far off topic, and is in effect an advertisement for another game, I really think it doesn't belong here (and I'm hardly stern about off topic screeding, but this is too far even for me. . .) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 11:23:53 +0200 From: Ezio Pignatelli Subject: [MYSTARA] - Use of Poison > I read on the best of Dragon Magazine nr. 2 , " POISON: FROM AA TO = > XX ". Do you know the original issue of Dragon Magazine where it was published? > Nice Font u got there... There is a cool Netbook, the Netbook of = > Poisons, Do you know the URL? Thanx, - -- Ezio Pignatelli - Dipartimento di Astronomia - Padova Tel: +39-49-8293459 - Fax: +39-49-8759840 mailto:pignatelli@pd.astro.it http://leda.pd.astro.it/~epignat - -- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 06:08:33 -0400 From: Andrew Toth Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Use of Poison At 11:23 AM 8/30/98 +0200, you wrote: >> I read on the best of Dragon Magazine nr. 2 , " POISON: FROM AA TO = >> XX ". > >Do you know the original issue of Dragon Magazine where it was >published? > >> Nice Font u got there... There is a cool Netbook, the Netbook of = >> Poisons, > >Do you know the URL? > I, personally, found it here.. http://www.math.auth.gr/~bchr/netbk.html Beyowulf - Jedi Merchant Steely Blue Dragon -==UDIC==- |/ "A wise mercenary picks his battles carefully" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 16:12:02 +0200 From: "Riccardo Tecchio" Subject: R: [MYSTARA] - Use of Poison >> Nice Font u got there... There is a cool Netbook, the Netbook of = >> Poisons, > >Do you know the URL? > >Thanx, the Url is www.geocities.com\area51\chamber\8495\library.html Bye Ricky *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 16:10:29 +0200 From: "Riccardo Tecchio" Subject: [MYSTARA] - [OT] Mystara the best in the world Messaggio a pių sezioni in formato MIME. - ------=_NextPart_000_0091_01BDD430.B4E70680 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, guys excuse me if i'm OT but i must say it. In the italian NG of the Rpg was a great " war " named "D&D vs the rest = of the world ".=20 And after many battles we can say " MYSTARA is The best Fantasy-world of = the Earth ". We are WINNERS !! Ricky alias Lord Benjamin Penhaligon P.S. excuse for the bad English, i learn in school only Germany ! P.P.S. this font is Times New Roman at 14=20 - ------=_NextPart_000_0091_01BDD430.B4E70680 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, = guys
excuse me = if i'm OT but i=20 must say it.
 
In the = italian NG of the=20 Rpg was a great " war " named "D&D vs the rest of the = world=20 ".
And after many battles we = can say=20 " MYSTARA is The best Fantasy-world of the Earth = ".
We are WINNERS = !!
 
Ricky
alias 
Lord Benjamin=20 Penhaligon 
 
P.S. excuse for the bad = English, i=20 learn in school only Germany !
P.P.S. this font is Times = New Roman at=20 14
- ------=_NextPart_000_0091_01BDD430.B4E70680-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 14:20:07 GMT From: lyndon@pobox.com (Lyndon Baugh) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Fantasy Empires Fantasy Empires is a computer game, put out by TSR/SSI, set in Mystara, apparently copyright 1993. It is strategic scale mustering armies (and setting up schools to train priests and wizards) with the option, but not the requiremnt, to drop down to tactical level for actual battles. Rudimentary economic/support and dipolomacy, but enough Mystara stuff to help rekindle an interest after I had lapsed due to several changes of address, and pricey products with CDs being out of my budget range for a while. I got the game when it was remaindered for $14.95 (and I got the expensive boxes with CDs when they were on bargain prices, and discovered I had missed a lot of good stuff). Anyway, when I most recently tried reinstalling it, I found one of the floppies, the first one, with the "dearjohn" uncompression/installation file, had gone bad, and I had neglected to make backup copies. Does anyone have a set of this game that they are done with and would be willing to sell to a good home? I'm not interested enough for full price, but I'd certainly be glad to pay the Budget Price. ===> Please take offers to Lyndon@pobox.com <====== Thanks *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 09:57:54 -0700 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Off topic about Hexen2 At 11:49 PM 8/29/98 -0500, James Ruhland wrote: >I was just wondering how many people here own Hexen 2 game. > >This is *so* far off topic, and is in effect an advertisement for another >game, I really think it doesn't belong here (and I'm hardly stern about off >topic screeding, but this is too far even for me. . .) Oh, I dunno James. I don't think it was necessarily too far off topic. The following line, quoted from the original (which I kept, 'cause I was intrigued about the game, and I /am/ a C programmer -- though one with very little spare time at the moment) made it Mystara relevant: At 12:30 AM 8/30/98 -0000, dlegend@earthlink.net wrote: >[...] >I am also working on a Siege map of my own and I would like to see a Mystara >mod for hexen2. Any C programmers out there? >[...] It might have been preferable if that bit had come first and then the stuff about Tolkien, etc, but the Mystara relevancy was still in there. I'd even suggest this post was less "Off Topic" than my comments about my upcoming due date, but you didn't screed that one, didya? ;-> I'd also like add, Dleggend did /say/ it was "Off Topic" right in the Subject field, which is more than many of the rest of us do under similar circumstances. (The failure to do that is right up there with the failure to change the subject field when the subject and body content no longer match) Ah well, I guess that's enough back-talk from me. ;-) Jenni - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs strawberry@jamm.com <==> http://www.jamm.com/ <------------------------------------------------------------------> God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. Then God started to think: "I should create things I *like*!" And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 12:32:01 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Off topic about Hexen2 > I'd even suggest this post was less "Off Topic" than my comments about my > upcoming due date, but you didn't screed that one, didya? ;-> > > I'd also like add, Dleggend did /say/ it was "Off Topic" right in the > Subject field, which is more than many of the rest of us do under similar > circumstances. > Um. . . .er. . .*chagrined look*. . . .Point taken. 8-) Doh! (sorry for the overeaction, Dleggend). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 11:17:55 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants > Ok it`s off topic but why didn`t you tell us John Wayne was your big > brother? > Why should I do that? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #592 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, August 31 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 593 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Class Kits for the Known World [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] HTML Posts and the Nature of Evil... Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Terrorists. [MYSTARA] - [IP] Atruaghin [MYSTARA] - RE: The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants [MYSTARA] - Got any ideas? Re: [MYSTARA] - Class Kits for the Known World Re: [MYSTARA] - Got any ideas? RE: [MYSTARA] - Got any ideas? Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Benny Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D and Gnomes as a Character Class Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ... Re: [MYSTARA] - Got any ideas? Re: [MYSTARA] - Got any ideas? Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D and Gnomes as a Character Class Re: [MYSTARA] - Catching up: 11-15 August ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 11:25:10 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Class Kits for the Known World > > Barbarian (Ethengar, Northern Reaches) > > Beast-Rider (Atruaghin, Ethengar) > > Berserker (Ethengar, Northern Reaches) Beast-Rider o.k., Barbarian not sure (what exactly is a barbarian?), Berserker does not fit for Ethengars. I cannot imagine a berserking bowman. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 01:07:25 -0600 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] HTML Posts and the Nature of Evil... Mystarans, Looks like we have had a few people post to the list using HTML, so I need to rare my ugly Admin head and lay down the law... HTML posts are Pure Evil, and are not allowed on the list. Not only do many e-mail programs still not support them, but such posts tend to be be gawdawfully formated with nasty colors and fonts that most people can't read anyway. Nope, HMTL e-mail is the work of Lucifer, so if you are posting in it, make the appropriate changes to your e-mail program's preferences. Thank you. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com ICQ #14585470 "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 21:14:44 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Terrorists. At 17.52 18/08/98 +0200, Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: >There is no such thing as a terrorist in Mystara. There'll be in the next Net-Almanac :-) > >You don't take a bunch of civilians hostage. Noone will care. Why not? What if you take hostage a group of DDC members, maybe the whole Darokin embassy in Karameikos? >Kill or kidnap farmers. You'll only end up killed by a >knight who doesn't really care whether the people you've kidnapped die as >long as he can bring your head back to the king and collect his reward. What about killing hundred of people in the Thyatian Coliseum? That will certainly draw the attention of the Thyatian Empire and probably also of neighboring nations as soon as they get the news. There's not a Mystaran CNN, but news travel in Mystara too and terrorism is certainly a way to get noticed. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com DM in City Of The Stars - Mystaran Almanac Assistant Student of Aerospace Enginnering - ICQ #1688817 Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 13:32:43 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: [MYSTARA] - [IP] Atruaghin Atruaghin (Father of the Clans) Greater Power of the Beastlands, LN/Hierarch of Matter, L PORTFOLIO: Atruaghin Clans, "New Way" Azcans, longevity, safety ALIASES: Atruatzin (Azca), Atrughanya (Sind) DOMAIN: Beastlands/Krigala/Happy Hunting Grounds (Palace of Atruaghin) DATE OF ASCENSION: 795 BC, although some debate that Atruaghin achieved Immortality much earlier SPONSOR: Ka (most likely; though neither he nor Atruaghin have shed any light on the matter) ALLIES: Ahmanni, Hattani, Mahmatti, Tahkati, Ka, Ixion FOES: Atzanteotl, Danel SYMBOL: Warbonnet and tomahawk WAL: Any non-evil Atruaghin is an interesting character. In 1500 BC, he was Atruatzin, king of the Azcans in the Hollow World. At that time, the evil Immortal Atzanteotl began corrupting the Azcans, and only Atruatzin resisted him. He was driven out with a band of followers and settled in the nearby fortress of Quauhnahuac. However, he was also driven out of there soon, and founded the city of Mictlan. In 1420 BC, the Schattenalfen discovered Mictlan and destroyed it, building the city of Aengmor upon its ruins. Atruatzin traveled underground, reaching the surface world in 1410 BC. By 1400 BC, he united the warring tribes that are descended from the Azcans and Oltecs and called himself Atruaghin. By 1260 BC, Atruaghin's ageless nature became apparent. Some debate that he was already an Immortal by this time, though not knowing it yet. Atruaghin left the Clans to search for the cause of his eternal youth. He returned to the Clans in 800 BC, freeing them from the oppression of Red Orcs. In five years, he raised a grand plateau so that his people might live in safety, and finally joined the ranks of the Immortals. The Church CLERGY: Priests, shamani (GAZ14), rangers CAL: LG, LN, NG, N, CG WEAPONS: Any appropriate to Atruaghin Clans or Azcan culture ARMOR: Any appropriate to Atruaghin Clans or Azcan culture MAJOR SPHERES: All, Animal, Creation, Divination, Elemental, Guardian, Healing, Plant, Protection, Sun, Weather MINOR SPHERES: Law, Necromantic, Time GRANTED POWERS: Turn Undead, can never be deceived even by magically disguised lies BONUS PROFS: Herbalism DOGMA: Atruaghin is not a very visible Immortal. He contents himself with quietly watching over his followers and only moves to protect them if they are seriously threatened. An important goal for him is the destruction of Atzanteotl and returning the Azcans back to their old Immortals. He is very subtle about it though, and Atzanteotl doesn't even suspect much yet. DAY-TO-DAY ACTIVITIES: Atruaghin's priests are called Clanfathers. Both priests and shamani work as protectors of Atruaghin Clans, keepers of wisdom and knowledge, and advisors to tribal chieftains. Rangers learn the way of nature and teach it to other people; they also act as elite warriors in defense of the Clans. Priests of Atruaghin in Azca work quietly to oppose the ruling clergy of Atzanteotl and to sabotage its efforts. They also seek likely converts among the non-evil Azcans. IMPORTANT CEREMONIES/HOLY DAYS: Eirmont 17th is the date of the destruction of Mictlan by the Schattenalfen. It is a day of sadness, quiet contemplation, and fasting. Followers of Atruaghin do not begin new ventures on this day, fearing that they will be cursed with bad luck. MAJOR CENTERS OF WORSHIP: Atruaghin's major center of worship is Atruaghin Clans, where he is followed by all clans except the Tiger Clan. From the Clans, his following has spread into Sind, where he is venerated by some people as the patron of longevity and safety. In the Hollow World Azca, Atruaghin is quietly gathering followers, but they are not yet nearly numerous enough to challenge the priesthood of Atzanteotl. AFFILIATED ORDERS: Nature's Warriors is a group of rangers from the Bear and Elk Clans. The group acts as an elite fighting force whenever the Clans are threatened. They yearn for the day when they may lead the attack on Tiger Clan to show them the error of their ways. PRIESTLY VESTMENTS: Atruaghin's clergy dresses in the traditional garments of whatever culture they are operating in. They customarily carry a tomahawk, and occasionally wear a warbonnet (though this practice is rare outside the Horse Clan). ADVENTURING GARB: The clergy's adventuring grab doesn't differ from their normal one. Atruaghini Spells Natural Life (Alteration) Level: 3 Sphere: Time Range: Touch Components: V, S, M Duration: Permanent Casting Time: 3t Area of Effect: 1 creature Saving Throw: None This spell removes unnatural aging that is caused by things such as a ghost's attack, casting certain spells, etc. It only removes one year per casting, and cannot actually make the target younger than it should be. The material component is a sacrifice of any goods worth not less than 1000 gp. The caster can choose to transfer the unnatural aging to himself instead of the sacrifice. The spell cannot bring back creatures killed by aging - they must be resurrected by other means first. ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Blue Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 16:02:51 CDT From: "Ceaf Lewis" Subject: [MYSTARA] - RE: The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants Hey! I thought of a way the Immortals could have servants without creating them. They could be getting them from other dimensions/worlds/universes/etc. I mean, a human would seem like a very powerful being to a world populated by slugs. Maybe there is a world populated by the angels/seraphim/etc. and the Immortals just take them from there as servants. (See the Basic Module "The Silver Princess") It could account for people just disappearing. Adios, Visit my web page at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arena/9442 Ceaf Lewis lordceaf@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 19:31:48 CDT From: "Ceaf Lewis" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Got any ideas? Hey! It's me again! *Groans from other people* I'm making a new dimension/world/universe/etc. for my D&D games, and I'm linking Mystara and this world by an adventure. Here's the problem: I need a way for the players to get there without finding a lost gate or something. I need a very original idea. If anyone can help, I'd be grateful. Ceaf Lewis lordceaf@hotmail.com Visit my web page at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arena/9442 REMEMBER THE ALAMO! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 20:43:30 -0400 From: Andrew Toth Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Class Kits for the Known World At 11:25 AM 8/30/98 +0200, you wrote: >> > Barbarian (Ethengar, Northern Reaches) >> > Beast-Rider (Atruaghin, Ethengar) >> > Berserker (Ethengar, Northern Reaches) > >Beast-Rider o.k., >Barbarian not sure (what exactly is a barbarian?), You mean you've never heard the Barbarian's Creed? :) If it moves, hit it til it stops, If it doesn't move, hit it til it does, If it still doesn't move, put it in your mouth, If you can't eat it, its a rock. Beyowulf - Jedi Merchant Steely Blue Dragon -==UDIC==- |/ "A wise mercenary picks his battles carefully" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 21:59:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Got any ideas? At 07:31 PM 8/30/98 CDT, you wrote: >Hey! >It's me again! >*Groans from other people* >I'm making a new dimension/world/universe/etc. for my D&D games, and I'm >linking Mystara and this world by an adventure. Here's the problem: I >need a way for the players to get there without finding a lost gate or >something. I need a very original idea. If anyone can help, I'd be >grateful. > How about having an evil wizard conclave cast a really bloody powerful spell that goes totally haywire and merges the two dimensions long enough for the PCs to get stuck in the wrong world? Then they have to either adapt to their new home or search for a way back to Mystara. The advantage is that you can have other Mystarans also lost in this new dimension, including your favorite monsters and campaign villains. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 12:05:35 +0200 From: Kristian Kramer Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Got any ideas? Well, Ceaf, that's a tough one. There are not much options, they either go by magic or by something mechanical. Magical: of course the old wizard with the dimension door or something springs to mind. But that's not very original, I'm afraid. Mechanical: the players (or rather, their characters :) could get kidnapped or taken prisoner by a spelljammer pirate (or another kind of space ship), but that would mean the introduction of this kind of thing in your campaign(s). Original, but a bit too drastic I believe. Not realy magical, but also not mechanical are creatures that can travel between different planes/worlds. One of the more powerful creatures could take the characters (for whatever reason) to some other dimension. A demon using them as servants to do a specific assignment and then release them (or maybe not). > -----Original Message----- > From: Ceaf Lewis [SMTP:lordceaf@hotmail.com] > Sent: Monday, August 31, 1998 2:32 AM > To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM > Subject: [MYSTARA] - Got any ideas? > > Hey! > It's me again! > *Groans from other people* > I'm making a new dimension/world/universe/etc. for my D&D games, and > I'm > linking Mystara and this world by an adventure. Here's the problem: I > need a way for the players to get there without finding a lost gate or > > something. I need a very original idea. If anyone can help, I'd be > grateful. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 13:07:25 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Benny At 22.34 21/08/98 +0100, Rob wrote: > >Alternatively, he could team up with Rad and Rafiel (seems only logical) to >become #3 in the Radiance Immortals. Rafiel in particular, having a >technological background, is a likely ally. It would be a nice mix: Rad, the genius, a smart guy that lacks scientific knowledge Rafiel, the scientist, maybe too much concerned about books, formulas and abstract theories Benekander, the enginner, the technical guy, the one who knows were to put his hands I see just one problem, Benekander does not start with "R", maybe Rheddrian is better. PS: but don't forget the Gareth=Benekander theory. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 12:50:36 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D and Gnomes as a Character Class At 20.51 20/08/98 -0400, SteelAngel wrote: > >I have been found out. PC2 never really said where Serraine lifted off >from, it only insinuated Brun. Also, Garal Glitterlode put Gnomes all >over Mystara, and not just in Rockhome! And thus that opens up a whole >realm of possibilities, since it is well known that a certain Glimreen >Gemeye graduated from a *certain* institute of Higher Learning. > >I have ideas where the Skygnomes came from. ;) But we can save that for >my next project! > A while ago I compiled a Timeline of Gnomish History using the info available in PC2, the GAZs and the PWAs. You can find it at Shawn's page or somewhere in my Home Page. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 12:32:38 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ... At 08.33 19/08/98 -0400, Glen Sprigg wrote: >NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO!!! Karameikos is not, and has never been, part of >Thyatis. Ever since Stefan Karameikos took over the Traladaran lands, >Karameikos has been an independent land. It was called the Grand Duchy of >Karameikos to IMPLY that it was still a Thyatian protectorate, in order to >dissuade anyone else from trying to annex chunks of the land while Stefan >was beginning his rule. He always intended to elevate himself to the title >of King when his control over the land was well established. I've never understood why people tend to think that a Grand Duchy cannot be an independent land, but must be subject to someone else. My region, Tuscany, has been an indipendent Grand Duchy (except my hometown that was an separate republic) from 1570 to 1859, banning a period of French domination under Napoleon. >From 1737 to 1859 the Grand Duke had family ties with the Austrian Emperors, but this does not mean Tuscany was part of the Austrian Empire. BTW: in RW marriages between members of different ruling families were common, if not the norm; in Mystara this doesn't seem to happen, except maybe in the Savage Baronies. Probably Stefan read the RC before taking the title of Grand Duke, do you remember the table that says that if you create a new dominion and take the title of Emperor the neighboring nations could easier get angry at you, while if you declare yourself a simple Lord nobody will care? :-) - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 08:05:27 EDT From: MAESTROPI@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Got any ideas? >Hey! >It's me again! >*Groans from other people* >I'm making a new dimension/world/universe/etc. for my D&D games, and I'm >linking Mystara and this world by an adventure. Here's the problem: I >need a way for the players to get there without finding a lost gate or >something. I need a very original idea. If anyone can help, I'd be >grateful. > Although not truely original, I once had a group of pcs summoned by a somewhat senile magic user, who thought that he was summoning demons, and viewed them as such. Perhaps you can have your pcs summoned, and then once the mage realized something was awry, he ignored them and went back into researching his spell. The pcs don't have the power to defeat him, and are thus left exploring and finding a place in this new world. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 16:37:26 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Got any ideas? On Mon, 31 Aug 1998 MAESTROPI@aol.com wrote: > Although not truely original, I once had a group of pcs summoned by a somewhat > senile magic user, who thought that he was summoning demons, and viewed them > as such. Perhaps you can have your pcs summoned, and then once the mage > realized something was awry, he ignored them and went back into researching > his > spell. The pcs don't have the power to defeat him, and are thus left > exploring and > finding a place in this new world. How about this one. After the Pcs have helped a (somewhat) powerful mage, with some heroic stuff, he offers to send them home with his newly invented transportation spell. (He doesn't tell them he hasn't tested it). However, things go wrong and the PCs end up somehwere else. Preferably they end up at different places in your world and have to do a litle adventuring on their own before they find eachother and can start looking for a way home. Alternately, you could have some inhabitants of your world come ask the pcs who are famous heroes to come help them againts some dark evil there. If you like epic stuff. The main problem with world-jumping from my experience is that a lot of PCs just wanna go home... Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Ah Gandhi! What a Mensch. And he looked good in a robe too!" -Douglas Wambaugh, Picket Fences. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 12:03:08 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D and Gnomes as a Character Class On Mon, 31 Aug 1998, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > A while ago I compiled a Timeline of Gnomish History using the info > available in PC2, the GAZs and the PWAs. You can find it at Shawn's page or > somewhere in my Home Page. Ive read it, and it's some good stuff :) My project deals with what exactly happened to the Ice Gnomes. Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 14:41:51 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Catching up: 11-15 August At 14.08 26/08/98 EDT, ExTSR@aol.com wrote: > Please note that as soon as you accept the game mechanic of Law/Chaos >(and/or Good/Evil) in ANY way, you're accepting a crucial philosophical point: >that such values are absolute, not relative. > Is every motivation which our cultural matrix labels "good" an absolute >Good throughout the universe? I doubt it. I doubt it too, that's why I think that alignments should be relative to your home-culture. E.g.: someone marked as lawful in Ethengar may not be such in Thyatis (just to take 2 well known Mystaran countries). ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com DM in City Of The Stars - Mystaran Almanac Assistant Student of Aerospace Enginnering - ICQ #1688817 Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #593 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, September 1 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 594 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Off topic about Hexen2 [MYSTARA] - MystaraWriters! Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ... Re: [MYSTARA] - Class Kits for the Known World [MYSTARA] - re: MANY QUESTIONS Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ... Re: [MYSTARA] - Got any ideas? Re: [MYSTARA] - Got any ideas? Re: [MYSTARA] - Got any ideas? [MYSTARA] - von Drachenfels, part 5. [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Birthright PBEM - New players accepted [MYSTARA] - Re:[Mystara] Terrorists. Re: [MYSTARA] - Catching up: 11-15 August Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Nos Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Nos Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Nos ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 21:14:11 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Off topic about Hexen2 At 09.57 30/08/98 -0700, Jenni A. M. Merrifield wrote: >I'd even suggest this post was less "Off Topic" than my comments about my >upcoming due date, but you didn't screed that one, didya? ;-> Dunno... remember that Strawberry in the last Net Almanac? ;-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 16:30:02 -0400 From: Daly Subject: [MYSTARA] - MystaraWriters! Be a part of a growing band of writers dedicated to bringing Mystara back into print! We will start with the periodicals, then, who knows? If you are interested in working in groups of 4-6, and are interested in writing articles or adventures, and are dedicated to seeing this thing grow, then please reply to me privately with "MystaraWriters" in the subject area! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 18:59:45 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ... > Probably Stefan read the RC before taking the title of Grand Duke, do you > remember the table that says that if you create a new dominion and take the > title of Emperor the neighboring nations could easier get angry at you, > while if you declare yourself a simple Lord nobody will care? :-) Which publishing house edited this book? The "Imperial Press - Thyatis, Kerendas, Tameronikas" in AC 950, second print AC 958? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 18:55:45 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Class Kits for the Known World > >> > Barbarian (Ethengar, Northern Reaches) > >> > Beast-Rider (Atruaghin, Ethengar) > >> > Berserker (Ethengar, Northern Reaches) > > > >Beast-Rider o.k., > >Barbarian not sure (what exactly is a barbarian?), > > You mean you've never heard the Barbarian's Creed? :) > > If it moves, hit it til it stops, > If it doesn't move, hit it til it does, > If it still doesn't move, put it in your mouth, > If you can't eat it, its a rock. > > > > Beyowulf - Jedi Merchant > Steely Blue Dragon -==UDIC==- > |/ > "A wise mercenary picks his battles carefully" Oh, that explains it all! I can assure that a Barbarian kit is not appropiated for the riders from the Sea of Grass. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 16:36:44 CDT From: "Ceaf Lewis" Subject: [MYSTARA] - re: MANY QUESTIONS I think that people thing the Grand Duchy has to be part of another land because usually the supreme ruler of a land takes a title like King, Emperor, Khan, etc. Also, Stefan Karameikos used to be a noble of Thayatis or Traladara. (I'm not sure; I'll have to look it up.) Ceaf Lewis lordceaf@hotmail.com Visit my web page at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arena/9442 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 22:52:17 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Many questions ... >I've never understood why people tend to think that a Grand Duchy cannot be >an independent land, but must be subject to someone else. >My region, Tuscany, has been an indipendent Grand Duchy (except my hometown >that was an separate republic) from 1570 to 1859, banning a period of >French domination under Napoleon. And Luxembourg is a Grand Duchy and has been for some time, mostly independent, and despite having various French/German armies wandering over it for the last several hundred years... :) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 22:58:47 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Got any ideas? >Well, Ceaf, that's a tough one. There are not much options, they either >go by magic or by something mechanical. > >Magical: of course the old wizard with the dimension door or something >springs to mind. But that's not very original, I'm afraid. >Mechanical: the players (or rather, their characters :) could get >kidnapped or taken prisoner by a spelljammer pirate (or another kind of >space ship), but that would mean the introduction of this kind of thing >in your campaign(s). Original, but a bit too drastic I believe. Anyone read any of Piers Anthony's Split Infinity series of books? A cool series. Basically, you have one world, but two different frames existing side by side - one scientific, one fantastic (is fantastic the word im looking for here? :) Everyone exists simultaneously in both frames. Each personality exists unknowing of the other. However, when one of the two dies, the one that is left over becomes capable of travelling into the other frame. In the book, the Sci Fi frame hero finds out about this fantasy world, because his "Fantasy" alternate has been knocked off By the Forces of Evil. Doesnt mean to say you couldnt have two fantasy worlds tho, if you didnt want. That is badly explained, but Dammit Jim, I'm a chemist. I'm not expected to write things. :) (Piers Anthony Rules!) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 19:41:33 EDT From: Magesmiley@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Got any ideas? In a message dated 8/30/98 6:05:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time, lordceaf@hotmail.com writes: << Hey! It's me again! *Groans from other people* I'm making a new dimension/world/universe/etc. for my D&D games, and I'm linking Mystara and this world by an adventure. Here's the problem: I need a way for the players to get there without finding a lost gate or something. I need a very original idea. If anyone can help, I'd be grateful. >> A couple of ideas: 1) A cursed artifact. Has some real neat powers that the players naturally just have to try out. Unfortunately activating has the unforseen side effect of ripping reality or something along those lines. 2) Time Travel. This is often overlooked as a method to link 2 very different worlds. The best part of this is that you can neatly tie legends and ruins of the older world into the setting of the new one. 3) Space Travel. How about a world in the same solar system, using space travel of some sort to reach it. If you are using info from the Gold Immortal boxed set the doomed planet (Damocles I think was the name?) might work. 4) Borrow from Modules. If you happen to have a couple of modules portions of them might be adaptable. M1 (Into the Maelstrom) CM5 (Where Chaos Reigns) and DA1 (Adventures in Blackmoor) come to mind. Hope these help - -Mage *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 23:27:25 -0000 From: dlegend@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Got any ideas? I got two possible ways to get your players to your world. - -----Original Message----- From: Ceaf Lewis To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM Date: Monday, August 31, 1998 12:56 AM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Got any ideas? >Hey! >It's me again! >*Groans from other people* >I'm making a new dimension/world/universe/etc. for my D&D games, and I'm >linking Mystara and this world by an adventure. Here's the problem: I >need a way for the players to get there without finding a lost gate or >something. I need a very original idea. If anyone can help, I'd be >grateful. > > > >Ceaf Lewis > lordceaf@hotmail.com >Visit my web page at: >http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arena/9442 >REMEMBER THE ALAMO! > > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 17:22:11 +0300 From: Kasvatustieteellinen osastokirjasto Subject: [MYSTARA] - von Drachenfels, part 5. Friedrich von Drachenfels Wilhelms oldest son was 28 when his father died. He was very much opposite to his father. He was slim, didn't eat and drink much and was very intelligent. In fact he was first magic-user for a very long time in the house. His Alphatian mother has realise his potentials when he was very young and had give him preliminary teaching about magic. Wilhelm wanted hin to become soldier like he and his precessors. So when Friedrich was 12 his mother send him secretly away from fighting. Friedrich was send to Nouvelle Averoigne to be pupil of Etienne d'Ambreville. They liked each other immediately and began a lifelong friendship. Friedrich was a brilliant student and learned very fast. When he came back to Ritterburg in 832 at the age of twenty, he has surpassed many older mages. At first his father was furious to him, but when Friedrich took also interest in military matters and began to develope ways to mix magic and Hattian warfare his father forgave him. At 840 Friedrich had already shown brilliant tactical skills with normal and magic-using troops. So there were no resistance among his younger brothers for him to take the leadership of the house. Friedrich was also very stubborn and when he immediately after becoming member of the Council got an argument with Frederick Vlaardoen, Supreme Judge of the Council, about minor legal problem, he couldn't give up and so he and Frederick were together in council for seven years without speaking a word to each other. Friedrich didn't even speak to Frederick's son Moritz. First Vlaardoen to whom he speaks was Jacob Vlaardoen, Frederick's cousin, who became Council member in 850. Friedrich finished building of Fort Nordling in 842 and attended Council meetings from that year every time during next 15 years. He was first one to support when Etienne d'Ambreville in 845 petition inclusion of Nouvelle Averoigne to Glantri and permission to construct a school for magic-users in Glantri City. Both were controversil issues but at the end there were not very much opposition. Principalities of Glantri In 852 Etienne, who was now prominent member in the House of Lords, tells Friedrich about his ideas of making Glantri state of magic-users. His idea is to preserve nobility only to magic-users. Friedrich is thrilled about this and they began to plan how this could be realised. Friedrich thought that best way is to prepare move thoroughly for some years. He thinks that it should be a declaration from anonymous Council, that heralds this change. Friedrich began carefully tell about plan some of his Council fellows. Toktai Virayana, Fernando de Belcadiz, Jacob Vlaardoen and Morphail Gorewich-Wozslany all give their support during following year. Two other members are problematic. Alphatians have been fighting over ten years with each other; their current leader was Ambrosion, Treasurer of the Council, neace of Vortram but he was challenged by Vortrams daughter Mariadna. Other problem were Thyatians, whose leadership had been in hands of warriors; current leader was Giovanni di Sfonti, Chancellor of the Council. Others decided to waite at least till the Alphatians get the fighting over. In 854 both problems were solved. First Giovanni di Sfonti died and was succeeded by his niece Matteo, who was a magic-user. Then both Ambrosion ja Mariadna died during two weeks time. Supporters of both side got together and pronaunced Mariadnas 21-year old son Vitalin as a new count. At the first meeting of a Council after these happenings Friedrich was anonymously selected as a new Chancellor. But before allies have any time to make their move Matteo di Sfonti is murdered and there begans furious infighting among his family about leadership. During first three months about 20 close and not so close relatives of Matteo disappear or are mudered. At last there is only one contender to present his claim to viscountship Matteos cousin Borso di Sfonti, who luckily is also magic-user. At the summer of 855 all Council members are behind the scheme. They decide that good moment for declaration would be 30th anniversary of Halzunthram's defeat in 858. During the next three years all of them gather secretly their strengths and supporters in the House behind the scheme. They also decide that they would take hereditary titles of Princes and there should be large principalities for them. When the declaration comes in 858 there are not very much opposition. Of course now illegal nobles rebel, but they very much crushed next year. Friedrich, now Prince of Aalban, had tried to get support from all his brothers for the plan. He has give them all hints about what is going to happen but they haven't realise how big the change is going to be. Some of them doesn't mind and give immediately their support for Friedrich. His oldest brother Franz, baron of Leenz, is first against the declaration, but when Friedrich, who was some kind of a misigynist and who had never married, promised to make Franz's son Ernst to his heir and give Franz a position only second to him in new principality, Franz gives his support. Two younger brothers Bruno and Kurt instead take arms and began rebellion. It takes seven years for Friedrich to defeat them, only in 866 they give up their arms and stop fighting. They are expelled to Darokin. Der Alte Friedrich have had a major role in crushing the rebellions with his combined fighter-mage troops. He also had a major role preventing relations with Darokin breaking. He had to counter all the misinformation expelled nobles are spreading against Glantri in Darokin and also in Wendar. But he succeeded in that. In 868 Friedrich published his celebrated book about warfare and magic, "Vom Kriege und Magie", which had later become must for all Glantrian military leaders and which have been citated even in Thyatis. After Friedrich concentrates mainly in making his principality richer and its peoples happy. He becomes very much loved figure among Aalbanese when he tours countryside in his old shaggy uniform. People began to call him Der Alte. Major happenings during his last years are opening of the Great School of Magic in 875 abd establishments of Principalities of Nouvelle Averoigne, Klantyre and Erewan. Friedrich supports totally Etienne d'Ambreville when he ask enfeoffment for Nouvelle Averoigne in 875 after opening of the Great School. He also supports establishment of Grand Master as Council office and Etienne's claim for that title as founder of the School and most prominent magician in Glantri. Friedrich also supports Robert McGregor plead for enfeoffment of Klantyre same year, because he somewho likes the old scot. Division of Elven principality was much more difficult matter. Elves have been quarreling between themselves already for some time. But then in 884 Erewan Elves surprised everyone for demanding their own principality. Friedrich was with majority in Council, when they decided that that would be the best for everyone. This broke friendly relationship between Friedrich and Fernando de Belcadiz, much to Friedrich's grief. This also strained somewhat Friedrich's relations with Etienne, when Klantyre was enfeoffed the Council had decided to give Robert McGregor the task of building fort against western border with Sind. Now the Council thought that they should take Fort Ylourgne for Nouvelle Averoigne to direct control of the Council and make Chart Erewan as its viceroy. It was Friedrich's task to reason with Etienne and get him to agree without resistance. It was very much triumph for Friedrich that he succeeded in this without hurting touchy Etienne. Friedrich died in his sleep at 886 in the age of 74. Next week was national mourning in whole Glantri, there was not a bad word said about him. Even princes of Bergdhoven and Alhambra said some fine words about him. In Aalban people were afraid about the future under "Dumpfkopf", as they called Ernst von Drachenfels. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 16:08:26 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Birthright PBEM - New players accepted Greetings, I am now accepting more players for my Mystaran Birthright PBEM. It is a game set in the Known World of Mystara using the Birthright rules. If you need reviews/recommendations, ask any of the current players - they should tell you what's great and what's not so great :) If you are interested, take a look at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/mystbr.html and see which domains are available. ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Blue Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 16:51:44 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re:[Mystara] Terrorists. On Sun, 30 Aug 1998, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > At 17.52 18/08/98 +0200, Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: > >There is no such thing as a terrorist in Mystara. > > There'll be in the next Net-Almanac :-) My main point was that they shouldn't be called terrorists, mainly becuase it is a modern term. James Ruhland wrote an excellent article on the usage of modern terminology in mystara. > >You don't take a bunch of civilians hostage. Noone will care. > > Why not? That comment shouldnt be taken too seriously, but my main point is that a human life doesn't hold the same value as it does in our world. Kidnap a bunch of farmers and the nobles might go looking for a while. Kidnapp a princess and you'll have every kinght in the neighbourhood off on a quest for glory ;) > What if you take hostage a group of DDC members, maybe the whole Darokin > embassy in Karameikos? Darokin, ofcourse is the odd one out. It brings 1700/1800 ideals into a medeival setting, which does produce some _very_ strange results. IMO, you can deal with this in two ways. Either, make Darokin a bit more medeival, or assume that the rest of the KW also is of a more 1700/1800ish nature. This will have dramatic consequences for countries like Thyatis and Karameikos for instance... Ofcourse, kidnapping important people will have consequences also in a medieval world. But I think, only a fool would attempt such a thing as you'd be guarranteed the emnity of a noble family(or equivalent, like a trading house) Ofcourse you can gain allies by doing this too, but that assumes that you are a political player already, doesn't it..? > >Kill or kidnap farmers. You'll only end up killed by a > >knight who doesn't really care whether the people you've kidnapped die as > >long as he can bring your head back to the king and collect his reward. > What about killing hundred of people in the Thyatian Coliseum? That will > certainly draw the attention of the Thyatian Empire and probably also of > neighboring nations as soon as they get the news. > There's not a Mystaran CNN, but news travel in Mystara too and terrorism is > certainly a way to get noticed. I'm assuming you're not talking about gladiators here ;) Yep, that would have an affect. But what kind of effect. Many terrorists of the modern world are hoping to gain sympathy (yes, actually). Killing senators and thyatian nobles enjoying some good (blood)sports will only mark you as an evil villain who should be killed immediately. So why bother? (unless you are an evil villain, who enjoys that sort of thing ;) Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Ah Gandhi! What a Mensch. And he looked good in a robe too!" -Douglas Wambaugh, Picket Fences. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 17:11:10 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Catching up: 11-15 August On Mon, 31 Aug 1998, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > At 14.08 26/08/98 EDT, ExTSR@aol.com wrote: > > Please note that as soon as you accept the game mechanic of Law/Chaos > >(and/or Good/Evil) in ANY way, you're accepting a crucial philosophical > point: > >that such values are absolute, not relative. > > > Is every motivation which our cultural matrix labels "good" an absolute > >Good throughout the universe? I doubt it. > > I doubt it too, that's why I think that alignments should be relative to > your home-culture. E.g.: someone marked as lawful in Ethengar may not be > such in Thyatis (just to take 2 well known Mystaran countries). I guess this is more realistic, but then you will have the same problem on a smaller scale. I guess this is why I see alignments as more of a problem on Mystara than in say the Forgotten Realms. In Mystara culture is an ussue. The lawful/chaotic is easier on a "cultural" level, since lawful will then mean that you follow the principals that are valid in your home country. Country and culture were rarely the same in the middel ages of our own world, but they seem to be so on Mystara. But you will ofcourse have the problem of subcultures. An orc might be lawful in his own culture, but will always be chaotic in any human culture. Orcs dont really understand any other law than that of their own. Right of Force. Ofcourse this is the same law that applies in any human country, only concealed within laws, that seem to be to complicated for orcs to understand, even if we have knights trying to knock some sense into their dumb heads with longswords. It works, with peasants, but for some reason it doesnt work with orcs..how bizarre :) Haavard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Ah Gandhi! What a Mensch. And he looked good in a robe too!" -Douglas Wambaugh, Picket Fences. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 18:06:55 +0200 (METDST) From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Nos On Fri, 28 Aug 1998 21:57:33 +0300, Aleksei Andrievski <> I'm sure it's on my site as well at this URL: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/nucleus.html And it basically says that the main problem is probably that the NoS will increase the number of initiate Immortals who choose to side with the Sphere of Entropy while having no negative effect on the world's entropy ("you just can't kill death"). <> I think this is a good way of analyzing the change occurred to the NoS, and it may also explain why so many entropic forces are at work now in Glantri. Each side wants to take the better of the deal, so now it's Energy vs Entropy for the use of the NoS. And since Rad (main Energy force in charge of the NoS) is out of business, the Entropics are dominating the scene.. for now.. DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 18:06:22 +0200 (METDST) From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Nos On Fri, 28 Aug 1998 11:46:56 +0100, Robert Fry wrote: <> This ties in with Aleksei's idea about Entropy corrupting the energy that stems from the NoS. Well, it can be, this is really up to the individual DM. I'd rule that if the spell is used to actually "destroy" or bring "chaos" or to a certain effect normally associated with Entropy, then the spell is altered a bit (a lot, actually) to bring down more chaos possible, even backfiring on the caster.. If on the other hand the spell is used for research or any other goal, then it works normally as per GAZ3 rules. It's a pity that G:KoM hasn't revised this point, but then, hey, what did you expect from it? After all, it's only G:KoM (and this is on of the reasons why I hate it)! ;) <> The point is: has Rad been drawn into before or after the change occurred? IMHO it is its absorption inside the NoS that was actually used to change the NoS, meaning with this that the Old Ones used part of his life energy (attuned to the NoS) to change the NoS property while making Rad pay for his "mistreatment" of the NoS, and changing him utterly.. I don't think he's an Entropic, but if he were to reemerge from the NoS, I think he would be a different man/Immortal. DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 18:07:26 +0200 (METDST) From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Nos On Fri, 28 Aug 1998 12:16:54 -0500, James Ruhland wrote: << Following the events of WotI, the NoS was altered to draw negative energy (from Entropy, in effect) rather than draining the Sphere of Energy. I'm curious as to what future ramifications this might have (and I appologize if this topic has come up before).>> Well, first of all, I'd like to clarify a point from your introduction. The way I see it, the NoS doesn't drain negative energy from the Sphere of Entropy, rather it drains entropic force from Mystara (or the Prime, depends what you think the power of the NoS is). In fact, if the NoS previously drained Mystara of its magic while working for the Sphere of Energy, now that it feeds on the Sphere of Entropy it should drain Mystara of its entropy, don't you think? << Day of Dread: will the SoEnergy eventually "recuperate", and the DoDread end? Or is this event permanent?>> The DoD is a consequence of the WotI and the alteration of the NoS. As such, I don't think it will be erased because the NoS doesn't drain magic anymore. It's the result of the war and the Old Ones' intervention: you cannot undo it (unless you want IYC..). << Effects on Entropy: will it be drained similar to what would have happened to the Sphere of Energy (I.E. for the SoE, it would have ultimately resulted in a nul magic world). Or is Entropy so potent a force that the affects of the Nucleus will be unoticable? If the former, then what affects are recomended (silver doesn't tarnish? Wood doesn't rot? bodies don't decay?) over time. If the later, please expain.>> Uhmm.. these are damn good questions. WotI never fully explained what the REAL consequences of this alteration are to Mystara. I don't think I can answer this for I don't really grasp the extent of the alteration done by the Old Ones. Theoretically however, if Entropy is drained then what results is Order.. and stagnation, so yes, maybe it will take more time to rot organic substances and the lifespan of mortal beings will be extended.. but these effects are not immediate: it will take minimum a century to see the first effects of the alteration. Also, talking about Order, the events happened after WotI don't really give me the idea that the NoS is draining Entropy, particularly those that took place in Glantri (which should benefit more than others from the NoS alteration). I mean, Glantri has rapidly become the cradle of Chaos (without considering the Net Almanacs), so this doesn't really mean that the NoS' alteration is beneficial for Mystara.. Maybe entropy is impossible to drain.. or lack or Entropy generates more Entropy..? << Reaction of Entropy: This was quite a setback (Stroke) vs. Entropy, I would imagine that the Entropic immortals would take an attitude that would make Ixion's seem like a model of relaxed forebearance. >> Well, it depends on the real effect that the NoS is having on the Sphere. If the NoS drains entropy from Mystara, thus promoting Order and Law, then the Entropics are obviously fuming of rage and maybe preparing more and more chaotic plans to compensate the NoS' workings (maybe this explains why the increased confusion in the world). However, think about this: when the NoS belonged to the Sphere of Energy, the NRG Immortals didn't object to its existence. Quite the contrary: they had created it, and they liked it because it inspired the study of magic and of magical energies around the world and above all because it could create new Immortal biased towards the Sphere of NRG! Now, they obviously didn't know of the Magic drain: in fact, when Ixion came to know, this caused the WotI (a sign the NRG immortals weren't pleased with the side effects added by the other spheres to their toy..). So I wonder now: why shouldn't this all be appliable to the Sphere of Entropy as well? The NoS now promotes entropy in those who use it while draining the world from it.. it is the same logic used in GAZ3, just change magic with entropy.. But then I wonder: WHY have the Old Ones operated such an ominous change??? << Reaction of Energy: This is quite a benifit for them. Not only are they possibly the most dominant Sphere already (buku Immortals are of the Energy Sphere), but now they have the oportunity to make new Immortals at the expense of Entropy (I.E. almost gratus for them); Ixion's position regarding the NoS may do a 180 as a result (but, he in particular, is so prideful, he won't admit he might have been wrong. However, his position would be that "circumstances have changed").>> Dipende da che effetto ha avuto sulla Sfera: se il risucchio di Entropia favorisce l'Ordine, ovviamente saranno scontenti.. Eppure, prima, quando il NoS era della Sfera dell'Energia, gli immortali dell'Energia non erano affatto scontenti di questo. Sė, risucchiava la magia di Mystara, perō ispirava lo studio della magia e dell'energia e soprattutto creava nuovi Immortali x la Sfera dell'Energia. Mi domando se tutto questo non sia ancora valido x la Sfera dell'Entropia (e perché non dovrebbe)? << Reaction of Energy: This is quite a benifit for them. Not only are they possibly the most dominant Sphere already (buku Immortals are of the Energy Sphere), but now they have the oportunity to make new Immortals at the expense of Entropy (I.E. almost gratus for them); Ixion's position regarding the NoS may do a 180 as a result (but, he in particular, is so prideful, he won't admit he might have been wrong. However, his position would be that "circumstances have changed").>> I don't think the altered NoS creates Immortals biased towards Energy anymore (see my reasoning above). The NRG immortals are happy because it doesn't drain Mystara of its magic anymore, but now NoS is at the service of Entropy for what I know, and I don't think they'd be so happy. As for NRG being the dominant Sphere.. well, perhaps it's the most popular sphere because the TSR writers chose to give it prominence, but I'm fairly sure the other spheres are balanced as well (after all, we're in the period of balancement..) << Reaction of other Spheres: Energy already is in a semi-dominant position in Mystara (c.f. above, re. numerous Energy Immortals). Them getting another advantage may slag off the others. Plus, "enlightened" others may realize that a weakened Entropy sphere (Entropy being not only an agent of destruction, but an agent that promotes change & evolution, by destroying the old to make way for the new. I.E. take something mundane: if bodies don't decay, or if mortals stop aging and dying, then there isn't room for a new generation to make its mark). What might they do?>> As I said, it may be true that draining entropy from the world causes unbalancement: without Entropy Order dominats (and this would give much power to the Sphere of Matter and equally displease Entropy, Energy and Time). But Order creates stagnation and this could bring Mystara to a stop, a stall that cannot last forever. After Order, Chaos will prevail again, and the Cycle will continue anew (see PC1 and the theories on the Multiverse cycles). It is the nature of the Multiverse, and these things cannot be changed. Maybe this is what frightens the Immortals so much? Knowing that if order prevails, their generation is doomed: that's because Balance must be preserved.. DM (who is glad to see that the Alignment thread has died.. or has it?) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #594 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, September 2 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 595 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Catching up: 11-15 August Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Nos Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Nos Re: [MYSTARA] - Re:[Mystara] Terrorists. Re: [MYSTARA] - Got any ideas? Re: [MYSTARA] - Catching up: 11-15 August Re: [MYSTARA] - Re:[Mystara] Terrorists. Re: [MYSTARA] - Re:[Mystara] Terrorists. Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Nos Re: [MYSTARA] - Catching up: 11-15 August Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Nos Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Nos Re: [MYSTARA] - Catching up: 11-15 August Re: [MYSTARA] - Re:[Mystara] Terrorists. Re: [MYSTARA] - Re:[Mystara] Terrorists. Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants Re: [MYSTARA] - [IP] Asterius Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Terrorists. [MYSTARA] - von Drachenfels, part 6 Re: [MYSTARA] - Got any ideas? Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Nos Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Nos [MYSTARA] - Don`t mess with Jamuga Re: [MYSTARA] - Re:[Mystara] Terrorists. Re: [MYSTARA] - Re:[Mystara] Terrorists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 22:55:47 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Catching up: 11-15 August > I doubt it too, that's why I think that alignments should be relative to > your home-culture. E.g.: someone marked as lawful in Ethengar may not be > such in Thyatis (just to take 2 well known Mystaran countries). > Perhaps! I assume it would be absolutely lawful for an Ethengarian army to destroy a city and kill all men, women, children and animal, because the dying khan has commanded it. So happened in AC 926. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 12:11:34 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Nos > (attuned to the NoS) to change the NoS property while making Rad pay for his > "mistreatment" of the NoS, and changing him utterly.. > Hmmmn. . .that's probably a different perspective than I think most folks would have. I think most folks interpret that event as the Old Ones kind of "rewarding" Rad for his "vision" by having him enter the NoS (and perhaps even join the Old Ones), while "punishing" Ixion ("leave and learn"). Just goes to show, though, how really inscruitable this event is. . . . *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 12:11:34 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Nos > (attuned to the NoS) to change the NoS property while making Rad pay for his > "mistreatment" of the NoS, and changing him utterly.. > Hmmmn. . .that's probably a different perspective than I think most folks would have. I think most folks interpret that event as the Old Ones kind of "rewarding" Rad for his "vision" by having him enter the NoS (and perhaps even join the Old Ones), while "punishing" Ixion ("leave and learn"). Just goes to show, though, how really inscruitable this event is. . . . *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 18:37:31 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re:[Mystara] Terrorists. > >You don't take a bunch of civilians hostage. Noone will care. > > Why not? Well, Mystara does have its own media. The Almanac, for starters. Bards, for the main course :) On the Savage Coast in particular there seems to be quite a media network, thanks to the Heralds of Bellayne (I figure that the Company of the Sun and Company of the Times refers to certain newspapers...). Especially considering that there are independent Heralds found in every country. Some media notice seems to fit into the Savage Coast quite well, as swashbucklers doubtless want to spread their fame and feats of derring-do across the Coast... Alphatia certainly seems capable of supporting some sort of national media, if it is advanced as seems to be made out. As to why people would care - politics seems to be alive and well in Mystara, and terrorism is mainly a political tool. Its a way of grabbing headlines and making a point. As to referral of Darokin being an advanced nation - Darokin seems to be around the Adam Smith era - but then Glantri is very much Renaissance as well, and Thyatis is an advanced nation as well. The Savage Coast seems mainly 16th/17th century, with a couple of exceptions (Cimarron might as well be 18th/19th, as it is effective post colonial, Eusdria seems to be back in medieval times). Point is, Mystara is almost without a doubt the most advanced TSR campaign world, IMHO. (What was the point of the last paragraph? I dont know - IMO, i guess...) Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 10:57:14 -0000 From: dlegend@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Got any ideas? Sorry about that. - -----Original Message----- From: dlegend@earthlink.net To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM Date: Tuesday, September 01, 1998 4:39 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Got any ideas? >I got two possible ways to get your players to your world. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 00:57:03 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Catching up: 11-15 August At 17.11 01/09/98 +0200, Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: >I guess this is more realistic And it's also the only way to explain why the shadow elves were classified as Chaotic both in GAZ 5 and Creature Catalog, while they're mostly lafwul according to GAZ13. IMO alignment should be treated like a relative value, as Charisma for 'noids in GAZ 10. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 00:51:38 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re:[Mystara] Terrorists. At 16.51 01/09/98 +0200, Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: >My main point was that they shouldn't be called terrorists, mainly becuase >it is a modern term. James Ruhland wrote an excellent article on the usage >of modern terminology in mystara. Point taken. >That comment shouldnt be taken too seriously, but my main point is that a >human life doesn't hold the same value as it does in our world. Kidnap a >bunch of farmers and the nobles might go looking for a while. Kidnapp a >princess and you'll have every kinght in the neighbourhood off on a quest >for glory ;) Unfortunately there're not many Princesses to kidnap in the KW :-) ... unless you want to kidnap a high level Glantrian mage... >I'm assuming you're not talking about gladiators here ;) :-) >Yep, that would have an affect. But what kind of effect. Many terrorists >of the modern world are hoping to gain sympathy (yes, actually). IMO they're hoping to gain the headlines of newspaper, thus drawing the attention of the world on their particular situation. Anyway this is not relevant to Mystara. > Killing >senators and thyatian nobles enjoying some good (blood)sports will only >mark you as an evil villain who should be killed immediately. So why >bother? (unless you are an evil villain, who enjoys that sort of thing ;) Well, the coliseum is mainly for the commoners, not just nobles and senators. Putting a "delayed blast fireball" in a coliseum would be like putting a bomb in a real world football stadium. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 20:57:31 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re:[Mystara] Terrorists. In a message dated 1998-09-01 11:28:48 Eastern Daylight Time, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no writes: > Yep, that would have an affect. But what kind of effect. Many terrorists > of the modern world are hoping to gain sympathy (yes, actually). Killing > senators and thyatian nobles enjoying some good (blood)sports will only > mark you as an evil villain who should be killed immediately. So why > bother? (unless you are an evil villain, who enjoys that sort of thing ;) That depends on whose sympathy you are trying to gain -- people who hate Thyatis and its blood sports might well be pleased by such a massacre -- in fact, there are enough international rivalries and hatreds that such terroristic actions may actually be more effective on Mystara than in the real world. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 20:57:36 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Nos In a message dated 1998-09-01 12:46:23 Eastern Daylight Time, mdalmonte@provincia.ra.it writes: > Also, talking about Order, the events happened after WotI don't really > give me the idea that the NoS is draining Entropy, particularly those that > took place in Glantri (which should benefit more than others from the NoS > alteration). I mean, Glantri has rapidly become the cradle of Chaos (without > considering the Net Almanacs), so this doesn't really mean that the NoS' > alteration is beneficial for Mystara.. Maybe entropy is impossible to > drain.. or lack or Entropy generates more Entropy..? But of course Glantri does not follow the trend of the rest of the world in regard to the Radiance. Back when the Nucleus was draining from the Sphere of Energy, Glantri was dominated by that Sphere and by ambitious wizards seeking to become Immortals of Energy through their use of the Radiance. Now that the Nucleus is draining from the Sphere of Entropy, Glantri is becoming more "entropic". For the first signs of stagnation caused by the draining of Entropy, I would look far away from Glantri. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 20:57:33 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Catching up: 11-15 August In a message dated 1998-09-01 11:46:07 Eastern Daylight Time, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no writes: > An orc might be lawful in his own culture, but will always be chaotic in > any human culture. Orcs dont really understand any other law than that of > their own. Right of Force. I would have to disagree with the idea that the definitions of "lawful" and "chaotic" (as opposed to value judgements about the "best" place to be on the law/chaos axis) are culturally determined. Extremely lawful types favor a well ordered or even regimented existence, with every aspect of life logically connected and understood as part of a natural order. On the other hand, extremely chaotic types favor complete individual freedom, regardless of the consequences in terms of peace and security. And a nation as a whole can be lawful or chaotic. Lawful nations conduct their affairs in predictable ways -- if you behave a certain way in a public place in a major city, the consequences, whatever they are, will be pretty consistent and probably obvious to any native. Chaotic nations, on the other hand, tend to be rather arbitrary and capricious about their official reactions -- and even a native would be hard pressed to guess how a government official might react if he is not close enough to that official to know his mood. People from lawful nations tend to view chaotic nations as lawless and dangerous, while people from chaotic nations tend to view lawful nations as stifling and oppressive. There is generally little disagreement as to where on the law/chaos axis the various nations lie -- the real disagreement is where along that scale is "best". Naturally, most people on Mystara think that their own society has things "about right" and that the other nations are too lawful/chaotic/ whatever. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 20:57:34 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Nos In a message dated 1998-09-01 12:45:37 Eastern Daylight Time, mdalmonte@provincia.ra.it writes: > I don't think he's an > Entropic, but if he were to reemerge from the NoS, I think he would be a > different man/Immortal. Given what is written in _Mark of Amber_, it seems likely that he was being purged of his "evil" and uncaring ways. Perhaps those "entropic" parts of his personality were added to the Nucleus of the Spheres and thus "corrupted" it? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 21:10:53 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Nos On Tue, 1 Sep 1998 Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: > Given what is written in _Mark of Amber_, it seems likely that he was being > purged of his "evil" and uncaring ways. Perhaps those "entropic" parts of > his personality were added to the Nucleus of the Spheres and thus "corrupted" > it? Hey, that's not a bad idea. Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 22:31:07 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Catching up: 11-15 August In a message dated 1998-09-01 13:02:27 Eastern Daylight Time, JamugaKhan@gmx.net writes: > Perhaps! I assume it would be absolutely lawful for an Ethengarian army to > destroy a city and kill all men, women, children and animal, because the > dying khan has commanded it. So happened in AC 926. It may be "lawful" in the sense that "the Mighty Khan's word is law", but it is just as clearly not lawful in the alignment/philosophical sense. The Ethengarians considered that massacre to be the right thing to do because their leader commanded it -- but it is not obvious from the description that the khan based that order on anything beyond his own passion, which would make the society of Ethengar, whose leadership is based on the power of strong personalities, extremely chaotic. On the other hand, if the Ethengarians had some sort of "rules of war", then they would expect the khan to make his decisions in accordance with it -- and they would be shocked if he consistently ignored those "rules". But the impression I get is that the khan could have given any orders he chose in regard to that city, so these "rules", if they existed, had to have been so flexible as to be meaningless. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 11:18:17 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re:[Mystara] Terrorists. On Wed, 2 Sep 1998, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > At 16.51 01/09/98 +0200, Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: > >That comment shouldnt be taken too seriously, but my main point is that a > >human life doesn't hold the same value as it does in our world. Kidnap a > >bunch of farmers and the nobles might go looking for a while. Kidnapp a > >princess and you'll have every kinght in the neighbourhood off on a quest > >for glory ;) > > Unfortunately there're not many Princesses to kidnap in the KW :-) > ... unless you want to kidnap a high level Glantrian mage... Lol :) Obviously this is not a good idea. > > Killing > >senators and thyatian nobles enjoying some good (blood)sports will only > >mark you as an evil villain who should be killed immediately. So why > >bother? (unless you are an evil villain, who enjoys that sort of thing ;) > > Well, the coliseum is mainly for the commoners, not just nobles and senators. > Putting a "delayed blast fireball" in a coliseum would be like putting a > bomb in a real world football stadium. I don't quite agree that the coliseum is mainly for commoners, but youre right. All people are allowed in there. (I guess I shouldn't argue with an Italian on this ;) The reason why I mentioned nobles was that I think this would have the greatest effect. I don't really see what kind of people would do this and why though. Religious fanatics perhaps? Remember that the concept of honour still exists on Mystara. Warriors do not gain respect by slaying innocents... Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Ah Gandhi! What a Mensch. And he looked good in a robe too!" -Douglas Wambaugh, Picket Fences. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 11:25:44 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re:[Mystara] Terrorists. On Tue, 1 Sep 1998 Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 1998-09-01 11:28:48 Eastern Daylight Time, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no > writes: > > > Yep, that would have an affect. But what kind of effect. Many terrorists > > of the modern world are hoping to gain sympathy (yes, actually). Killing > > senators and thyatian nobles enjoying some good (blood)sports will only > > mark you as an evil villain who should be killed immediately. So why > > bother? (unless you are an evil villain, who enjoys that sort of thing ;) > > That depends on whose sympathy you are trying to gain -- people who > hate Thyatis and its blood sports might well be pleased by such a > massacre -- in fact, there are enough international rivalries and hatreds > that such terroristic actions may actually be more effective on Mystara > than in the real world. The people who see Gladiator matches as an evil, would support the massacre of innocents? Doesn't sound like too many people would use this logic. Religious fanatics perhaps. Oppopnents of Thyatis, maybe. In the latter case nobles, would probably be the target, rather than commoners. Still isn't this attitude a bit petty? If one hates thyatis, one should destroy their armies on the battlefield.. (Easier said than done, though..) Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Ah Gandhi! What a Mensch. And he looked good in a robe too!" -Douglas Wambaugh, Picket Fences. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 04:26:09 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants >Good point. In fact maybe this should be further developed. All of the >norse Immortals for instance are probably servants of Odin. Maybe the >immortal society should be even more hierarchical? > Up to a point I agree, but it should only really be Initiates and Temporals who have the Master/Servant relationship. Celestials and above are powerful in their own right and would be more `allies` than servants. Mind you from the outside the difference could be impossible to tell. <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 04:33:52 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [IP] Asterius >> DOGMA: Asterius encourages his followers to seek wealth and profits. Ho= >wever, he dislikes excessive greed and discourages bringing utter ruinati= >on to others by seeking wealth (that is more in the domain of Talitha and= > Iliric). Instead, if by gaining wealth, his followers happen to bring pr= >ofit to others as well, Asterius likes that most of all. Asterius = Patron of enlightened self interest. <;-P >The description of the church should vary for each country, really. This >would be a considerable amount of work though, so I guess this will have >to do for now... :) > >Good work Aleksei! > Have to agree totally with this on both counts even though it`s totally different from my homegrown version. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 04:58:15 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Terrorists. >There's not a Mystaran CNN, but news travel in Mystara too and terrorism = >is >certainly a way to get noticed. > An even quicker way to get very dead. Unlike RW Mystara has `HEROES` who make it their job to kill of such people very quickly. BTW I`m using hero plural for both sexes as heroines are not quite the same thing in most fiction. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 15:02:21 -0700 From: hihama@uta.fi Subject: [MYSTARA] - von Drachenfels, part 6 Ernst von Drachenfels There follows lesser person after great leader as so often happens in history. So happens also in Aalban in 886 when Ersnt followed his uncle as prince and had already happened in 788 when Sigmund had followed his father Joachim. Ernst was already 42-year old and total failure as magician. He was big, over-weighted brute. His similarity with his grandfather Wilhelm was astonishing in all other matters except brains. Ernst was 15-years old when Friedrich named him as his heir. His father Franz hired immediately magician to teach Ernst basics of the art. That was everything he ever learned about magic. He has difficulties even with most simple spells. But he was nonetheless magis-user and he cannot be discarded when Friedrich died. In fact it was rumoured that if Friedrich had lived couple of years longer, he would have passed Ernst and named his son Albrecht as his heir. Albrecht was only 16-years old when Friedrich died. In the Council there was not any discussion about giving Ernst any other charge than viceroy of Nordling. In fact Etienne d'Ambreville even made a point about not giving even that to him. Ernst hated Etienne from that point. Ernst thought himself as a great military man and resented Etienne's attitude towards him. Council also decided that for now on the nobles have to be graduates from the Great School. This decision was made so that there wouldn't be anymore men like Ernst in the Council or in the House. Ernst was like his grandfather also in attitude towards Fort Nordling. In his 11 year long reign he spend all the wealth Friedrich had collected for building fort even more formidable it was. He ruined the economics in Aalban totally with this obsession, when he died he had taken enormous loans against his possesions. He also neglected the army. One major happening during his reign was the disappearance of Castle d'Ambreville and all the d'Ambrevilles with it in 896. Whole Nouvelle Averoigne was also covered with impenetrable mists. This cause turmoil in Glantrian politics, because Etienne d'Ambreville had been major mover in country. The Supreme Judge Toktai Virayana I also happened to die about the same time. Ernst was happy and hoped to get promotion in the Council. But that was hopeless, he was again passed over. Ernst died in 897 in the age of 53 for over-eating. No one was unhappy with his passing. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 05:13:47 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Got any ideas? Here`s a simple one. Just don`t tell the PCs theyve moved stage a wilds adventure and as they travel they somehow go from one to the other. Since their high powered divinations will not work in the new realm, cleric of who? sorry never heard of him/her/it! contact outer plane? well which one none of the ones you know seems to be answering or just have no idea either. Let them go nuts trying to work it out. BTWyou could have it be sort of like the third Lyndon Hardy book in Master of the five magics series where Thought alone can create new worlds and disbelief causes them to self destruct thereby sending the players back to Mystara. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 05:44:09 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Nos >The point is: has Rad been drawn into before or after the change occurred? >IMHO it is its absorption inside the NoS that was actually used to change >the NoS, meaning with this that the Old Ones used part of his life energy >(attuned to the NoS) to change the NoS property while making Rad pay for his >"mistreatment" of the NoS, and changing him utterly.. I don't think he's an >Entropic, but if he were to reemerge from the NoS, I think he would be a >different man/Immortal. > A bit different from `canon` that. IIrc the PCs can altethe NoS BEFORE the appearance of the Old One in order to stave off its explosion. It`s actually draining Entropy then Rad is drawn into it. Maybe my PCs are just luckier than yours since they did achieve this result. This could set up the two divergent looks at how the NoS acts now. If PCs wereN`t successful Then Bruce`s ideas for the fallout are correct, if they were its closer to G:KoM and draining Energy once again. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 06:04:44 -0700 (PDT) From: "Cptn. Stardust" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Nos > > Given what is written in _Mark of Amber_, it seems likely that he was being > > purged of his "evil" and uncaring ways. Perhaps those "entropic" parts of > > his personality were added to the Nucleus of the Spheres and thus "corrupted" > > it? > > Hey, that's not a bad idea. > It makes Gareth=NoS quite scary. Maybe I`d better rethink that idea. <;-P _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 06:16:53 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Don`t mess with Jamuga >> Ok it`s off topic but why didn`t you tell us John Wayne was your big >> brother? >> > >Why should I do that? > Well there`s that movie in which the great hero who became Ghengis is played by the `Duke` himself. It`s actually worse than it sounds but that`s IMOO. ttfn, Paul ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 09:52:42 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re:[Mystara] Terrorists. > > The people who see Gladiator matches as an evil, would support the > massacre of innocents? Doesn't sound like too many people would use this > logic. Religious fanatics perhaps. Oppopnents of Thyatis, maybe. In the > latter case nobles, would probably be the target, rather than commoners. > Still isn't this attitude a bit petty? If one hates thyatis, one should > destroy their armies on the battlefield.. (Easier said than done, > though..) > (well, not lately). Anyhow, OTOH, we have as "canon" the use of what could be called a "terror weapon"/bioweapon of mass destruction on Thyatis by Thothia. This would be the equivilent of if, say, Iraq spread plague germs in some major US citys. Now, not only did Thothia get away with it with no punishment/retaliation, but they achieved their "policy goals", and Thyatis doesn't seem to be planning any long-term retaliatory action (emphasis on "seem"). What does that mean? Well, IMO, it would encourage others to employ the same kind of methods (if on a smaller scale) to get what they want. However, I don't think it should be as easy as setting off delayed blast fireballs in the collosseum; there should be some kind of protection against that. However, crouded marketplaces (a favorite target of Palestinian terrorists) or crouded streets (a favorite target of IRA terrorists) would be good. With the proviso that you should hit streets and markets frequented by "the beautiful people", because a few commoners more or less wouldn't be enough to force any Mystaran government to change policy. But, kill some important people. Well, TSR already established the precident of successful terror strikes, so if thats the kind of thing you want the "heroic*" folks to do in your campaigns, then go for it. *And Thothia was/is generally depicted as a nation of fine people ruled by a decient man, so. . . .Of course, they/he only killed Thyatians. I assume if someone has the temerity to kill Traldarans/Karameikans, the outrage would be severe. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 17:54:37 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re:[Mystara] Terrorists. > (well, not lately). Anyhow, OTOH, we have as "canon" the use of what could >be called a "terror weapon"/bioweapon of mass destruction on Thyatis by >Thothia. This would be the equivilent of if, say, Iraq spread plague germs >in some major US citys. > Now, not only did Thothia get away with it with no punishment/retaliation, >but they achieved their "policy goals", and Thyatis doesn't seem to be >planning any long-term retaliatory action (emphasis on "seem"). The analogy may be slightly flawed there. Thyatis is not capable of actually responding in kind to Thothia, as Thothia is more advanced magically (ancient Nithian spells and that sort of stuff). Another problem is that I imagine it is difficult to enter into a magical arms race - magic is generally something you have either got or not. And Thyatis does not (at least, not compared to Thothia). > What does that mean? Well, IMO, it would encourage others to employ the >same kind of methods (if on a smaller scale) to get what they want. >However, I don't think it should be as easy as setting off delayed blast >fireballs in the collosseum; there should be some kind of protection >against that. Well, Thyatis could return in kind with that - and doubtless they would. > However, crouded marketplaces (a favorite target of Palestinian >terrorists) or crouded streets (a favorite target of IRA terrorists) would >be good. With the proviso that you should hit streets and markets >frequented by "the beautiful people", because a few commoners more or less >wouldn't be enough to force any Mystaran government to change policy. But, >kill some important people. Well, TSR already established the precident of >successful terror strikes, so if thats the kind of thing you want the >"heroic*" folks to do in your campaigns, then go for it. freedom fighter heroics... :) >*And Thothia was/is generally depicted as a nation of fine people ruled by >a decient man, so. . . .Of course, they/he only killed Thyatians. I assume >if someone has the temerity to kill Traldarans/Karameikans, the outrage >would be severe. ? Not the impression I got. I got the impression that Thothia was a nation riddled with corruption and evil araneas worshipping Entropic Immortals. Whereas the Legions of Thyatis adventure made the gladiatorial arena seem like a place of honourable combat. As to Karameikos - isnt that pretty well the only place on Mystara that has had "terrorist" attacks recently? Due to the Thyatian/Traladaran friction. Depending on how the gazetteers is interpreted, Karameikos in certain areas could be in the grip of their own "Troubles"... Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #595 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Thursday, September 3 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 596 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re:[Mystara] Terrorists. Re: [MYSTARA] - Catching up: 11-15 August Re: [MYSTARA] - Don`t mess with Jamuga Re: [MYSTARA] - Re:[Mystara] Terrorists. Re: [MYSTARA] - Re:[Mystara] Terrorists. Re: [MYSTARA] - Thothia, Thyatis, etc. Re: [MYSTARA] - Re:[Mystara] Terrorists. [MYSTARA] - Thanks! Re: [MYSTARA] - Thanks! Re: [MYSTARA] - Don`t mess with Jamuga Re: [MYSTARA] - Re:[Mystara] Terrorists. Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants Re: [MYSTARA] - [IP] Asterius [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v5.4 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 17:56:56 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re:[Mystara] Terrorists. The people who see Gladiator matches as an evil, would support the massacre of innocents? Doesn't sound like too many people would use this logic. Religious fanatics perhaps. Oppopnents of Thyatis, maybe. In the latter case nobles, would probably be the target, rather than commoners. Still isn't this attitude a bit petty? If one hates thyatis, one should destroy their armies on the battlefield.. (Easier said than done, though..) Exactly. Its the underdogs who resort to terrorism, the people who can't defeat those legions. If Iraq had the firepower the US would have been blown away by now. But they dont (just as well, really). Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 19:37:18 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Catching up: 11-15 August > It may be "lawful" in the sense that "the Mighty Khan's word is law", but it > is just as clearly not lawful in the alignment/philosophical sense. The > Ethengarians considered that massacre to be the right thing to do because > their leader commanded it -- but it is not obvious from the description that > the khan based that order on anything beyond his own passion, which would > make the society of Ethengar, whose leadership is based on the power of > strong personalities, extremely chaotic. > > On the other hand, if the Ethengarians had some sort of "rules of war", > then they would expect the khan to make his decisions in accordance > with it -- and they would be shocked if he consistently ignored those > "rules". But the impression I get is that the khan could have given any > orders he chose in regard to that city, so these "rules", if they existed, > had to have been so flexible as to be meaningless. It's another example of "relative alignment". It's Ethengarian law that the khans can do what they want, and all other have to follow their orders. For all other nations it's wild, barbaric and CHAOTIC! BTW, there are indeed some "Rules of War". Let's assume that Toktai Khan had died without this last order. Let's further assume the orkhan who has taken up command afterwards had sent messenger into the city who had been killed by the citizen of the city. As Ethengars see the immunity of messengers as a sacred thing, the whole horde would have seen the massacre as something positive and lawful, even without a specific command. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 19:42:41 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Don`t mess with Jamuga > Well there`s that movie in which the great hero who became Ghengis is > played by the `Duke` himself. It`s actually worse than it sounds but > that`s IMOO. > ROFL !!! I never saw this movie but it reminds me to this movie where all Arabian characters were played by good European looking U.S. Americans. Well Arabians and Europeans are not too far away from each other, but it was a ridiculous thing nevertheless. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 19:48:38 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re:[Mystara] Terrorists. > (well, not lately). Anyhow, OTOH, we have as "canon" the use of what could > be called a "terror weapon"/bioweapon of mass destruction on Thyatis by > Thothia. This would be the equivilent of if, say, Iraq spread plague germs > in some major US citys. > Now, not only did Thothia get away with it with no punishment/retaliation, > but they achieved their "policy goals", and Thyatis doesn't seem to be > planning any long-term retaliatory action (emphasis on "seem"). > What does that mean? Well, IMO, it would encourage others to employ the > same kind of methods (if on a smaller scale) to get what they want. > However, I don't think it should be as easy as setting off delayed blast > fireballs in the collosseum; there should be some kind of protection > against that. > However, crouded marketplaces (a favorite target of Palestinian > terrorists) or crouded streets (a favorite target of IRA terrorists) would > be good. With the proviso that you should hit streets and markets > frequented by "the beautiful people", because a few commoners more or less > wouldn't be enough to force any Mystaran government to change policy. But, > kill some important people. Well, TSR already established the precident of > successful terror strikes, so if thats the kind of thing you want the > "heroic*" folks to do in your campaigns, then go for it. > > *And Thothia was/is generally depicted as a nation of fine people ruled by > a decient man, so. . . .Of course, they/he only killed Thyatians. I assume > if someone has the temerity to kill Traldarans/Karameikans, the outrage > would be severe. Keep cool, James! We all know how dearly you love the Thyatians but to start an invasion wasn't exactly a nice idea from the beginning. It was war, and Thothia was desperately enough to add another element to survive this war. I believe that the Thyatians regret much more the fact that all the Thyatian mages and clerics were not there or not able to solve the problem. Some sign of the "Alphatian Disease" in Thyatis? Such kind of problems should be solved before starting dangerous military adventures. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 13:13:23 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re:[Mystara] Terrorists. > > The analogy may be slightly flawed there. Thyatis is not capable of > actually responding in kind to Thothia, as Thothia is more advanced > magically (ancient Nithian spells and that sort of stuff). > Oh, I would tend to disagree. Thyatis may not have access to ancient Nithian spells, but in theory (and I emphasize "in theory") they could have responded magically quite effectively. In fact, IMC, they did. Magically adept "infiltration forces" (read=PCs and some flunkies) infiltraded Edario, fired up the Thothian granaries, warehouses, and docks (well, not too much damage ultimately done to the docks, and they did want to hit the palace, but were prevented from doing so) and some other stuff, and took off, leaving destruction in their wake, but chased by some angry Thothians. Well, no biggie, ultimately. Other things happened IMC to make it more of an equal battle. PCs are creative. Other Mystaran nations respond creatively to menaces. But, for some reason, Thyatis does not. At least not in canon. Oh well, no need to do down that path again. 8-)~ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 13:22:57 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thothia, Thyatis, etc. > > We all know how dearly you love the Thyatians but to start an invasion > wasn't exactly a nice idea from the beginning. It was war, and Thothia was > desperately enough to add another element to survive this war. > No, but there is warfair, and then their is warfair of a different kind. I never said the invasion was pretty and/or justified. However, one doesn't use bioweapons at every oportunity. Regarding the below, that would at least be an worthy explaination of why these guys did nothing. IMO, the Emperor should start trying to get thouse guys more involved in life in general, and I agree that Thyatis should work more on internal stuff, and not go galavanting off all over the world before they do (in fact, IMC, well: I'm working on a timeline, slowly, and I'll post the URL when I get somewhere with it [see below]). > I believe that the Thyatians regret much more the fact that all the > Thyatian mages and clerics were not there or not able to solve the problem. > Some sign of the "Alphatian Disease" in Thyatis? Such kind of problems > should be solved before starting dangerous military adventures. > Brief synopsis is: anyhow, Post WotI, Thyatis IMC worked more on recovering its "lost" territories, did not invade the "Alphatian" portion of the IoD (seeing it as a kind of buffer, if only a temporary one, and concentrating on rebuilding its own strength). However, to stir the pot a bit, the Thothians did go for Imperial Power on their own (Ram's goal of building up his nation, with his ultimate dream of ruling the whole IoD, as mentioned in PWA II I believe). Resulted in Thyatian "intervention" (against the wishes of the PCs, but they didn't want to see a new "Thothian superpower"), and a lot of events ended up roughly the same, with the ultimate borders being a Thothia plus Ekto & Trikelios, Thyatis on "its half" of the IoD, and an independant Confed. of Dunadale that included East Portage. The G. Escarpment is a hostile, dangerous place IMC, so though everyone wants a chunk of it, no one has it, even in theory. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 13:53:21 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re:[Mystara] Terrorists. > > Keep cool, James! > I think any time I meantion Thyatis, or Thyatian related-events, Jamuga is going to tell me to cool it, so I think I'll just ignore that advice. 8-)~ (btw, above said in good spirits/jest*, not indignant/vexatious *grin*). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 17:52:19 CDT From: "Ceaf Lewis" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Thanks! Hey! I'm just really touched that so many people responded to my "Got any Ideas?" e-mail. (Well, I didn't really like the fact that someone put "Yeah, I got two ideas." but didn't tell me what they were. But thanks to everyone else who responded. Ceaf Lewis lordceaf@hotmail.com Visit my web page at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arena/9442 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 19:46:05 -0000 From: dlegend@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thanks! That was me I had problems with my email. My idea was that you could have your players stumble on a hole with a glowing rift leading to your world. You could place it in the great crater. Have them search for a monsters or spell components for a wizard in order to get them there. At night have them spot the strange glow. When they investigate they find the rift, but unknown to them an Orc war party or clan has found the rift and they have been using the rift as a place of warship to there immortals, and as place to sacrifice. It just happens that the pcs are in time to join the orcs with their ceremony. As the pcs investigate have surrounded and out numbered, so that the only escape is to jump into the rift. If the pcs decide to fight then jump, have them overwhelmed and captured. Then the pcs become that night's sacrifice. The sacrifice consist of throwing the pcs into the rift. The Orcs believe that the rift has to do with their evil immortals. They don't know that it leads to another world, since everybody that went in never came back. If the pcs have anything too powerful this is a good time to take it. You could leave them with nothing but their clothing. dlegend@earthlink.net - -----Original Message----- From: Ceaf Lewis To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM Date: Wednesday, September 02, 1998 11:17 PM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Thanks! >Hey! >I'm just really touched that so many people responded to my "Got any >Ideas?" e-mail. (Well, I didn't really like the fact that someone put >"Yeah, I got two ideas." but didn't tell me what they were. But thanks >to everyone else who responded. > > >Ceaf Lewis > lordceaf@hotmail.com >Visit my web page at: >http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arena/9442 > > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 02:57:36 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Don`t mess with Jamuga In a message dated 1998-09-02 09:46:13 Eastern Daylight Time, ezaqwazy@hotmail.com writes: > Well there`s that movie in which the great hero who became Ghengis is > played by the `Duke` himself. It`s actually worse than it sounds but > that`s IMOO. What is really tragic about that movie is that it was filmed near a place where nuclear weapons had recently been tested -- as near as I can tell, everyone involved with that movie died prematurely of cancer. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 02:57:48 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re:[Mystara] Terrorists. In a message dated 1998-09-02 13:38:12 Eastern Daylight Time, rmunch@easynet.co.uk writes: > The people who see Gladiator matches as an evil, would support the > massacre of innocents? Doesn't sound like too many people would use this > logic. Religious fanatics perhaps. Oppopnents of Thyatis, maybe. In the > latter case nobles, would probably be the target, rather than commoners. > Still isn't this attitude a bit petty? If one hates thyatis, one should > destroy their armies on the battlefield.. (Easier said than done, > though..) Well -- the attitude that you describe would be perfectly suited to the Ylari, as well as any other opponents of Thyatis who have a really low opinion of Thyatians. Certainly every other "civilized" government of the Known World would be quick to distance themselves from such atrocities -- for that matter, the Ylari would also do so if the "Preceptors" rather than the "Kin" were in power. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 02:57:40 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants In a message dated 1998-09-02 11:32:20 Eastern Daylight Time, ezaqwazy@hotmail.com writes: > Up to a point I agree, but it should only really be Initiates and > Temporals who have the Master/Servant relationship. Celestials and above > are powerful in their own right and would be more `allies` than > servants. Mind you from the outside the difference could be impossible > to tell. <;-P Well -- to cite my original example, Mealiden managed to reach the rank of "Empyreal" without ever establishing an independent cult that I am aware of. And while I am sure that he is more of a "friend" than a "slave" to his mentor Ilsundal, the fact remains that he managed to reach level 23 as an Immortal without ever striking out on his own. So now I wonder -- how much higher could he possibly ascend without showing some independence? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 13:17:47 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [IP] Asterius On Wed, 2 Sep 1998, paul dooley wrote: > Asterius = Patron of enlightened self interest. <;-P > Have to agree totally with this on both counts even though it`s totally > different from my homegrown version. Actually, in my campaign Asterius is more the Patron of Communication. I have modelled him after Hermes/Mercury and he is seen as the Messanger of the Immortal. This fits better with him as the head of the Church of Karameikos, which imc is very much like Christianity. (Polytheistic, but nonetheless) Ofcourse, thieves see him as a patron aswell, but no respectable follower of Asterius wants to associate himself with a thief. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Ah Gandhi! What a Mensch. And he looked good in a robe too!" -Douglas Wambaugh, Picket Fences. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 17:48:47 CEST From: "Herve Musseau" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v5.4 Mystara FAQ version 5.4 by Hervé Musseau Q: What is Mystara? A: Mystara is an imaginary world created by TSR as a campaign world for roleplaying games using the rules of Dungeons and Dragons. Q: What is a roleplaying game? A: Roleplaying games are games in which people play the role of imaginary fantastic characters like warriors or wizards and try to complete an adventure under the guidance of a game master. Q: I never heard of Mystara, but I know a setting called the Known World which looks pretty the same. What's the difference? A: Mystara got a name as a world only recently; before that, it was often referred to as the Known World, although Mystara is more than just the Known World. Q: So, what's Mystara? The Known World and what else? A: Mystara is basically composed of 2 main parts, the Outer World and the Hollow World, plus 2 moons, and some other exotic settings. Q: A Hollow World? A: Yes. Mystara, unlike our earth, is hollow, an empty sphere. It has an internal sun that lights the interior world, making it inhabitable. It holds old civilizations that are now extinct on the Outer World, placed there by the Immortals with strong magic preventing them from evolving much or dying away. The only entrances to the Hollow World are through underground passages between the two worlds, and through the holes that stand in place of the north and south poles. Q: And the Outer World? A: The Outer World is mostly like our Earth. It comprises: * the Known World (now called Old World), where the most civilized countries are located, * Alphatia (only before AC 1009), * the Savage Coast and Hule, * the southern continent, called Davania, * the eastern continent, called Skothar. Q: Why is Alphatia part of Mystara only up to AC 1009? A: Because Alphatia, which is a large continent east of the Known World, sank into the ocean in AC 1009, at the end of the major event called Wrath of the Immortals. It is now a floating continent located in the Hollow World. Q: What exactly is Wrath of the Immortals? A: Wrath of the Immortals (or WotI) is a great campaign that TSR published to update the Known World. It deals with the Great War that involves the major countries of Mystara and that was caused by the Immortals to obtain control of the Nucleus of the Spheres, a powerful artifact located under Glantri. At the end of the war, Alphatia sinks, Glantri and Thyatis have suffered dramatically from the conflict and three new powers enter the political scene of Mystara: the Heldannic Territories, the Hagiarchy of Hule and the "revamped" Kingdom of Karameikos. Q: On the continental map published in the Master DM's book, there are some empires I've never read anything about in other products and on the list, like the Empire of Dorphin IV or the Empire of the Great Khan. Do they exist? Where can I find information about these? A: The map in the Master set is wrong, wrong, wrong! In the series of articles written by Bruce Heard in Dragon Magazine, the first in the series (Dragon #153) explains this all. The map was the was released by a very imaginative Thyatian, and wrongly accepted for the truth. There is no Empire of Dorphin IV, no Empire of the Great Khan, etc. Also, as you probably guessed, the size of the Thyatian Empire was largely exagerated on this map... Q: I've already heard from the Known World, and from the Hollow World too, but never as Mystara. What does all this mean? A: This is because Mystara is a very old world, one of the oldest created by TSR, and, as TSR grew, so did Mystara. All of these product lines are revelant to Mystara: * Mystara, of course, * the Known World and most stuff that were made for D&D (as opposed to AD&D) like these old good modules B and X, or the Gazetteers, * the Hollow World, * Red Steel/the Savage Coast, * Blackmoor. Also, some products bearing the label First Quest are related to Mystara. Q: Blackmoor? I know a Blackmoor, but it's part of Greyhawk, isn't it? A: Blackmoor was, like Greyhawk, the campaign world of one of TSR's founder. It was later placed in both Greyhawk and the Known World (as a past kingdom in the later), effectively making two Blackmoors exist. It seems there is no further relation between the two Blackmoors, however, although some people made the assumption. Q: Where is it located? A: Blackmoor was a techno-magical kingdom that blew itself up a few millenia ago. The event shifted the planet's axis and Blackmoor is now the north pole. Sources are contradictory as to where Blackmoor stands; some place it on Brun, some on Skothar. Arguments in favor of Brun are the position of the Inn Between the Worlds and the Nucleus of the Sphere, and the fact that the Known World stands there; this is the solution proposed in some Gazetteers. Arguments in favor of Skothar are its sort of canonical status, and the feeling that all civilizations should not systamatically come from the Known World; this is the solution proposed in the Hollow World box. Note that, if you consider the Hollow World solution to be the truth in your campaign, the map in the box does have a typo : the names of Blackmoor and Thonia have been reversed (Blackmoor was north of the Empire of Thonia according to all other sources). Bruce Heard's opinion on this matter : << Blackmoor -- the travelling legend. If there were archaeologist on Mystara, they would have a devil of time figuring where the darn place was really located. Officially, it's supposed to be up there by the Thonian Marches. Unfortunately, conflicting info has crept into several products, getting in the way of the Thonian theory. The best thing is to assume evidence of Blackmoor's presence elsewhere is the result of later colonizations and outposts. Other communities were also magically displaced (such as a certain ancient tavern in the Broken Lands of the Known World). Definitely a messy development of the World of Mystara! :) >> So officially the answer is Skothar. Q: Ok, and now what's Red Steel? A: Red Steel is a setting that is part of Mystara (west of the Known World), although it was released as a stand-alone setting. Q: I have a player of the Church of Karameikos, and I whant to give him an Immortal, I suppose that it's a church with many Immortals (like the Greek / Latin church) but in Gaz 1 I dind't find any list of Inmortals... A: These are the immortals of the Church of Karameikos, as told by Bruce Heard in an old Dragon Magazine: Asterius (Eternal of Thought), Leader Kagyar (Eternal of Matter) Ilsundal (Hierarch of Thought) Valerias (Hierarch of Matter) Vanya (Empyreal of Time). Also, although Chardastes is a native Traladaran Immortal, he is venerated through the auspices of the Church of Karameikos, not the Church of Traladara. This is extrapolated from info in B1-9 In Search of Adventure. The Immortals of the Church of Traladara are: Halav Petra Zirchev. Q: You spoke of Immortals, what are they? Are they Gods? A: Mystara has a different pantheon when compared to other D&D settings. Most notably, it has no gods, but beings called Immortals. Immortals are mortals who, through their deeds, have reached a higher status granting them more power than mere mortals. Basically, however, Immortals are not very different from Gods of other settings. Q: Is Jaggar von Drachenfelds the Star Dragon? A: No. According to Bruce Heard's article in Dragon #170 http://www.tsrinc.com/periodicals/dragon/backissues/170jun91/170FromHatchlingTo.txt he became the Star Dragon for a brief period but relinquished the title for absolution. Q: Also you mentionned something about D&D not being AD&D. What does that mean? A: Mystara was the world designed to be used with the rules of D&D (often called OD&D to better distinct it from AD&D and from the generic term D&D which could mean both; OD&D stands for Old D&D or Original D&D - note that some few people call it BD&D for Basic D&D to distinguish it from even older rules). It appeared in the old boxed rules: the Expert box, the Companion box and the Master box. Most of the earlier modules designed for D&D were set in this world. Recently, however, Mystara has been converted to AD&D (along with Red Steel), but many people who play in Mystara do it with the old rules (or their reedition, Rules Cyclopedia). Q: When I read stuff about Mystara I keep seeing acronyms I cannot understand like WotI or PWA. What do they mean? A: There is a list of Mystara relevant acronyms at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/ Q: I heard that the Mystara line was cancelled. Is this true? A: It is unfortunately true. And Red Steel is cancelled too. Some novels pertaining to Mystara may be released as part of the First Quest line, and modules may be part of the Odyssey line. AFAIK, there is no such products in preparation however, though Wizards of the Coast (which bought TSR) has expressed its willingness to publish material for dead worlds, but never namely mentioned Mystara. Keep faith. Joshuan's Almanach was the last product of Mystara (to be precise the novel "The Black Vessel" has been released after, and to be even more precise it deals with the Savage Coast) and the Savages Baronies the last of Red Steel (except for online exclusives). Q: But I saw in TSR's 97 preview that there would be Red Steel modules released as online exclusive. What does this mean? A: TSR has released these modules for free on its site of MPGN at ftp://ftp.mpgn.com and http://www.tsrinc.com. Q: So, if TSR has dropped the line, how can I get new material for Mystara? A: There are many people on the web who love Mystara and have taken upon themselves to keep Mystara alive (and well alive). There is a mailing list dedicated to Mystara where people discuss together about it, exchanging ideas, points of view, and more. To subscribe, send e-mail to majordomo@mpgn.com. In the body, have the single line: subscribe Mystara-L . It has 224 people, as of end April 98. Not quite a billion served, but we're getting there. As a comparison, there are 395 people on the Realms list, TSR's flagship world (source : Leroy Van Camp, list admin). There are also the TSR message boards at http://tsronline.wizards.com:80/mb/system/addnewuser.shtml There are also many pages around the net dedicated to Mystara, sometimes with lots of interesting materials. Some of these pages are organized into a Webring, check http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html for info about the Mystara webring. Now more than ever you should express your views on how Mystara should be brought back at http://CWSpot.com/Mystara/SaveMystara or join the SaveMystara Writer's Group whose goal is to get as many adventures and articles to the periodicals as we can. Q: Where can I find the old messages of the Mystara mailing list? A: The digests are collected at ftp://ftp.mpgn.com/Gaming/ADND/Worlds/Mystara/MailingListArchive/ and the oldest ones (prior to 1998) can be found at ftp://ftp.io.com/pub/mailing-lists/mystara-digest/ However for your convenience the most interesting aricles the list has come up with are collected and sorted on Shawn's page at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/ Q: Where can I find the old messages of the Mystara message board? A: There is no archiving of the board. However for your convenience the most interesting aricles the board has come up with are collected and sorted on Shawn's page at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/ Q: Where can I find a complete list of the material published for Mystara? A: The most complete lists to my knowledge is at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2304/prodlist.html It includes rulebooks and modules published by TSR, Mystara-relevant Judge Guild supplements, a list of various magazine #s that contain adventures, rules or world description pertaining to Mystara, novels, TSR net resources, and Clark Ashton Smith stories related to Averoigne. All of these are ranked according to compatibility with Mystara (explicit, implicit, compatible, etc.) and the type of product (campaign source, rules supplement, adventure, etc.). Q: And where can I buy those products? A: Since the Mystara line is out of print, it is difficult to find them. If you're lucky you can find them in any shop that sells RPG stuff, or buy second-hand books. Some places where you can find Mystara stuff on the web: http://www.dragontrove.com/listing.html http://www.titan-games.com/ http://www.rpgspot.com/main.htm http://www.hitpointe.com http://www.eskimo.com/~darkh/ http://www.ida.net/users/groverm/sleeping.dragon/sdh.html http://www.djhobby.com/catalog/index.html http://www.sagesguild.com/ http://www.crazyegors.com/ the newsgroup rec.games.frp.marketplace. Q: Where can I find the FAQ for the Mystara mailing list? A: Check at http://www.io.com/~oryon/mmlfaq.htm. AFAIK there is no plain text version of this FAQ. _____________________________________________________________ Herve Musseau Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/ Almanac page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/9037/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #596 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Thursday, September 3 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 597 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Problems with Skills Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v5.4 Re: [MYSTARA] - Problems with Skills [MYSTARA] - Clerics and Magical items [MYSTARA] - [REPOST] Alfheim Invasion Timeline (1/2) [MYSTARA] - [REPOST] Alfheim Invasion Timeline (2/2) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 20:38:04 +0200 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Problems with Skills Hi fellow listmembers! I've got a rules question for you, so listen carefully. A big problem I'm having these days concerns general skills (or proficiencies). Some of them have been labeled as "Intelligence" skills, in particular: Gemcutting Stonecutting/Sculptor Jeweler Woodworking Metalworking Glassblowing Now, some of my players have argued that these depends not on the actual Intelligence of the worker, but on its manual skills (thus Dexterity). My problem is now: where to place all these skills? Dex or int? Your opinion? DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 12:31:42 -0700 From: harold@grid.wizards.com (Harold Johnson) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v5.4 Bravo! Nice job on the FAQ file! :) Harold "Wisconsin" Johnson/TSR *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 15:55:14 EDT From: BoBoII@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Problems with Skills In a message dated 98-09-03 15:22:27 EDT, you write: << A big problem I'm having these days concerns general skills (or proficiencies). Some of them have been labeled as "Intelligence" skills, in particular: Gemcutting Stonecutting/Sculptor Jeweler Woodworking Metalworking Glassblowing Now, some of my players have argued that these depends not on the actual Intelligence of the worker, but on its manual skills (thus Dexterity). My problem is now: where to place all these skills? Dex or int? Your opinion? >> I see your problem. While not a practicioner of any of the above, I fully recognize the need for a staedy hand in all pf them, but I think they were placed under INT to try to capture the spirit that these are, in a way, art forms and dependant on the inner eye of the carver more than his hands. Its definately a place where the simplified sklls of D&D break down. Why not have your characters make a INT roll for design and appraisal (figuring the best way to cut and arraing a certain stone; choosing the best marble for a sculpture; designing the best suports/asthetic combo for an archway to a cathedral), and a DEX roll for actual cutting/working? Or try an average. Or pick one and apply a modifier if the task is dependant on a different facet (after all Dex and STR both affect combat) ie. You say that Gemcutting is a dex skill and the character has a very high/low INT. You might apply a modifier to the end GP value of the stone based on the choice of cut. Hmm? As in all things, GM, use your best judgement based on the situation, and be flexible to ensure maximum fun for all. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 22:27:25 +0200 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Clerics and Magical items Hi again! Another quick rules problem. IYC, what kind of magical items can clerics manufacture? I mean, potions, staffs, armours (?), weapons (??)... And how did they actually manage to create them? how do they enchant them, what's the process used? On a similar note, do you give clerics the permission to create new spells? Do you think it's reasonable? Thanx for the cooperation DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 22:26:39 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: [MYSTARA] - [REPOST] Alfheim Invasion Timeline (1/2) This is something I and Herve wrote a couple of years ago, our first net-cooperation. I repost it for the newbies and hoping to spark some discussion (the list looks asleep these days). Sorry for those who see it twice. A Word 97 version of this can be downloaded from my home page http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 Other formats (rtf, word 95) available upon request. - ------------------------------------------------------ >From the Aengmor (Colony of) entry in the 1015 Net-Almanac: "To learn more about the shadow elves' invasion check "Timeline of Alfheim Invasion" by Fabrizio of Lizzieni and Hervé of Vyonnes published in Rymskigrad by the Igorov institute." - ------------------------------------------------------ Alfheim Invasion Timeline v1.2 by Fabrizio Paoli and Hervé Musseau Spring 1004: Atzanteotl Contacts Rafiel Location: Pandius Description: Atzanteotl meets Rafiel in the Central Dome of Pandius to ask him to take part in the Brotherhood of the Shadow. Rafiel agrees. What this means: Atzanteotl believes Rafiel to be an entropic Immortal, so he asks him to join his side. On the other hand Rafiel learns that the Brotherhood of the Shadow's goal is to help the less powerful side (i.e. his side), so he doesn't refuse Atzanteotl offer. In the years to come Rafiel will play as a double agent for Rad. Summer 1005: Atzanteotl Urges Rafiel to Act Location: Pandius Description: In a new secret meeting in the Central Dome of Pandius Atzanteotl suggests Rafiel to prompt the Shadow Elves to invade Alfheim as his participation to the cause of Entropy. Rafiel agrees and Atzanteotl offers him to provide the Shadow Elves with a new spell able to corrupt the Trees of Life, thus weakening the Alfheim elves. What this means: With Sind seized by the Master and Alfheim controlled by Shadow Elves, Atzanteotl plans of crushing Darokin between the hammer and the anvil, thus giving the Brotherhood of the Shadow the chance of striking against Glantri, the Broken Lands, the Five Shires, Rockhome, the Emirates of Ylaruam, the Ethengarian Khanate, or Karameikos, to help whichever side the Brotherhood is supporting. Moreover the destruction of Alfheim is one of Atzanteotl's goals and Ilsundal one of his most hated enemies. Rafiel is not entropic but sees this as an opportunity to get rid of a dangerous neighbor for Glantri (Alfheim is led by the Ring of Fire) and to give his followers what he long promised them; however, he prefers not to involve his Shamans in this scheme, so he willingly accepts Atzanteotl's spell. 1005, Felmont 19: Xatapechtli Dreams Location: City of the Stars, Shadow Elves Territories Description: Xatapechtli, the head of the second Shadow, dreams of an ancient book about Trees of Life that is kept somewhere in Alfheim. In the dream an Azcan voice whispers him that he must find that book if he wants to take his revenge on the Alfheim elves. What this means: Actually that dream is induced in Xatapechtli's mind by Atzanteotl, that has found a way to corrupt the Canolbarth forest and the Trees of Life. In the following months Serpent Eyes will look all over Alfheim for that ancient and invaluable book. 1005, Fyrmont 12: Theft in Feador Location: Feador, Alfheim Description: A group of Shadow Elves spies (Serpents) steal from Jorodrin Feadiel (Treekeeper of clan Feadiel) a book detailing what Ilsundal went through to create the Trees of Life. What this means: Serpents found evidence of the book's current location searching through the Mealidil Library Tree and quickly managed to steal it. Now Kanafasti can learn vital knowledge about Trees of Life. What the PCs can do: If the PCs are Shadow Elves they may take part in the robbery or be part of the plot in some other way (looking for information, putting up diversions...). If the PCs are from Alfheim they may try to prevent the theft and perhaps uncover the plot. 1005, Fyrmont 27: Atzanteotl visits Kanafasti Location: City of the Stars, Shadow Elves Territories Description: Atzanteotl visits Kanafasti in incorporeal form and provides him with the knowledge needed to research a new spell that will eventually kill the Trees of Life and weaken the Canolbarth forest, thus allowing Shadow Elves to easily drive Alfheim Elves out of it. What this means: Rafiel allowed Atzanteotl to provide Shadow Elves wizards with a spell that will help them invade Alfheim. Unfortunately, busy as he is in his studies with Rad, he didn't realize that Atzanteotl's magic will forever corrupt the forest, entropy being what it is. What the PCs can do: The team of Shadow Elves wizards that is going to research that spell will surely need many components and they could hire the PCs to find them. 1006, Flaurmont 12: Research of New Spell Completed Location: City of the Stars, Shadow Elves' Territories Description: The team of experienced Shadow Elves wizards led by Kanafasti successfully completes the research of a new spell that will allow Shadow Elves to kill the Trees of Life. What this means: Actually the spell is more powerful than what everybody (but Atzanteotl) think because it will corrupt not only the Trees of Life but the whole forest.. What the PCs can do: Experienced Shadow Elves wizards may take part in the research of the spell. 1006, Ambyrmont 17: King Telemon Prompts Kanafasti to Act Location: City of the Stars, Shadow Elves' Territories Description: In a secret meeting in the King's Palace between Telemon, Kanafasti, Xatapechtli and General Garafaele, the King urges the Royal Wizard to act now and orders the Radiant General to start drafting a wartime army. What this means: Taking advantage of the confusion created by the meteor that struck in northern Darokin this summer, Telemon urges Kanafasti to start casting the spell. What the PCs can do: Shadow Elves PCs may either help Kanafasti if they're experienced wizards or be drafted in the army according to their rank. 1006, Ambyrmont 24: Shadow Elves Wizards Start Working Location: Caves just beneath Alfheim Description: The most powerful mages among the Shadow Elves lead by Kanafasti gather in tunnels running under the Canolbarth Forest and start casting the spell that Atzanteotl gave them. What this means: Tunnel Shapers worked hard in the last few months to build a big network of tunnels running all under Alfheim. This is the first step of the invasion, it will take at least a month for the spell to have appreciable effects and much more to kill the Trees of Life. What the PCs can do: High level Shadow Elves wizards PCs can take part in the casting, lower level or non-wizard PCs may be needed to scout the tunnels and defend the mages from attacks by wandering monsters and Alfheim adventurers that might stumble upon those tunnels by chance. 1006, Sviftmont 4: Tree of Life Gives Ill Omen Location: Ainsun, Alfheim Description: As the forest begins to darken, the High Treekeper of clan Grunalf contacts his Tree of Life by casting ESP and the Tree tells him that it senses a great catastrophe coming. Soon the bad news spreads across the clan and to the other clanholds. Grunalf sages, the most learned about forestry and woodlore among the elves, gather in Ainsun to study the matter. What this means: The darkening of the forest is the first effect of the Shadow Elves' magic, more mutations will follow in the next weeks. 1006, Sviftmont 28: The Sick Forest Location: Canolbarth Forest, Alfheim Description: Three weeks have passed since clan Grunalf gave alarm and the forest is even darker and more twisted. Trees stop growing new leaves and plants stop making flowers, herbivores strive to find eating. The elves are at loss to explain this strange disease, other than to guess that something in the fallout from the ash raised by the meteor that slammed in northern Darokin last summer is causing it. Trees of Life continue to make leaves, but feel a deep pain coming from the very earth trough their roots, while anxious Treekeepers search ways to reverse the process. What this means: Actually the disease is caused not by the ash, but by the powerful Shadow Elves magic that is starting to take effect. 1006, Kaldmont 21: Death near Shieldtree Location: Shieldtree, Alfheim Description: Five elves are found dead and ten others seriously sick after drinking water from a nearby spring. Careful investigation reveals the water has been poisoned. What this means: This is another consequence of the spell. By now the trees have stopped growing and leaves started falling. Small plants and many herbivores have already died. Carnivores have trouble to find game and many springs become poisonous. What the PCs can do: If they're in Shieldtree they can be hired to investigate on this strange death. 1006, Kaldmont 28: Treekeepers meet in Feador Location: Feador, Alfheim Description: Increasingly alarmed by their Trees of Life that stopped growing leaves and unable to stop the process, Treekeepers from all the seven clans meet today in Feador trying to discuss on the matter. Treekepers from clan Feadiel and Grunalf agree on the need of relocating their communities somewhere else to prevent the Trees of Life from dying, those from clan Long Runner and Mealidil bitterly disagree on leaving Alfheim, though not even in the Annals of Mealiden is mentioned something similar to the current situation. What this means: Treekepers are strongly alarmed by the withering of their Trees of Life and completely unable to reverse the process, so they start thinking of leaving Alfheim for a land not hit by the fallout of the ash raised by the meteor. 1007, Nuwmont 13: Lynnwyll Chossum Falls Ill Location: Desnae, Alfheim Description: Clanmaster Lynnwyll Chossum suddenly faints while working; he feels very weak and is brought home by his friends. Even the High Treekeper is much worried about his health. What this means: This is not a natural illness, actually Carlisan, Counselor to Lynnwyll and Shadow Elf, poisoned his Clanmaster to take his place. 1007, Nuwmont 15: Lynnwyll Dies, Carlisan Appointed Clanmaster Location: Desnae, Alfheim Description: After a short death struggle Lynnwyll dies, but before dying he picks Carlisan to replace him. What this means: This is a major strike for Shadow Elves, now in full control of one of the leading clans. 1007, Thaumont 15: Council Meets in Elleromyr Location: Elleromyr, Alfheim Description: The Council of the Clans meets today in Elleromyr to discuss the proposal of clan Feadiel and clan Grunalf of leaving Alfheim. Only three clans (Long Runner, Mealidil and Red Arrow) vote against, so the measure passes. King Doriath charges his ambassadors in Glantri, Karameikos, Thyatis and Wendar to ask the local rulers and elvish clans for hospitality. What this means: The once mighty trees of Alfheim are now twisted and dying, other plants are already dead and the animal population has drastically decreased. More and more among elves and fairies think that leaving is the best solution, but some still refuse to leave. Why leave: clans Feadiel and Grunalf are concerned about the Trees of Life; clan Chossum is now controlled by Shadow Elves and eager to sell cart, horses and whatever is needed for such a journey; clan Erendyl thinks this is the best thing for Alfheim. Why stay: clan Mealidil doesn't want to leave the country founded by Mealiden and thinks that an answer for the problem can be found looking in the books, it's just a matter of time; clan Long Runner mistrusts all non-elves, blames humans for this strange disease, so it doesn't want to have any contact with the outside world; clan Red Arrow is mostly concerned about the danger of such a trip, because of what's going on in Glantri, Darokin and Ethengar. What the PC's can do: Well known PCs adventurers from Alfheim may be sent to Glantri, Karameikos, Thyatis or Wendar as couriers by King Doriath. clan Red Arrow may also need experienced adventurers to scout possible flight ways across the Broken Lands, the Orcland and the Cruth Mountains. 1007, Flaurmont 11: Good News from Ambassadors Location: Elleromyr, Alfheim Description: By now King Doriath has received reports from all his ambassadors: King Stefan of Karameikos, King Gylharen of Wendar and Princess Carlotina of Erewan agree on giving hospitality to the elves of Alfheim, should they really need to leave the forest. Only the reclusive clan Vyalia in Thyatis refuse to help the elves. What this means: About one month ago the Council of Clans decided that leaving the dying forest was the best way to save the Trees of Life. Now Alfheim elves know that there's someone that can host them and they've only to plan their flight. The war between the two factions of Immortals goes on as Emperor Tylion of Thyatis, advised by Vanya in her mortal form of Anya, forbids the Vyalia elves to host followers of Ilsundal. 1007, Flaurmont 23: Beholder Appears in Thornbush Location: Thornbush, Alfheim Description: Following a steady increase in the monstrous and evil activity near the Bad Magic Points, a Beholder appears today in the more and more dark area of Thornbush. The guards are unable to stop the multi-eyed monster and the creature starts wreaking havoc in the forest. What this means: The increase in twisted magic level is a side effect of Atzanteotl's entropic magic. What the PCs can do: Adventurers, either elves or human, can stage a hunt for the beholder and other evil monsters that will surely turn up in the following weeks. [Note: I put here a Beholder because it was the first thing that occurred to me, but DM are free to use this event to introduce new monsters. Take a look at the Creature Catalog.] 1007, Yarthmont 7: Fair Folk Moves Away Location: Dreamland, Alfheim Description: Tonight, in a sad meeting of the Fairy Court, King Oberon decides to leave the twisted forest. The fairies will start leaving tomorrow, heading for Redstone on the western coast of the Isle of Dawn, where there is already a fairly big settlement of fairies. A small group of fairies will stop in nearby Darokin waiting for the forest to return to what it was just a few months ago. What this means: King Oberon realized that the Canolbarth forest was every day more dangerous and inhospitable for his subjects to live in, so he decides they had better leave. Soon the elves will lose their "little brothers" and this will be both a new drive to leave and a terrible blow to their morale. 1007, Yarthmont 19: Small Elvish Settlement Destroyed Location: North of Desnae, Alfheim Description: A party of brave adventurers wandering in the forest stumble upon a small elvish community to find that everyone has been cruelly slaughtered. Evil monsters escaped from Thornbush are blamed for the murder. What this means: The murder is the work of a small band of Shadow Elves that crept out of their network of underground tunnels. In the following months similar attempts to murder isolate Alfheim communities will be made. 1007, Yarthmont 20: Druid Makes Stunning Discovery Location: North of Desnae, Alfheim Description: A druid, member of the party which found the murdered community, casts a "Speak with the Dead" before leaving the village and discovers that the killer wasn't a monster, but a party of elves. What this means: The druid couldn't learn which sort of elves were the murderers, but as soon as he reports his discovery to the military the fear and suspicion of Shadow Elves being behind this slaughter (and the whole thing...) spreads in Alfheim. 1007, Klarmont 16: Tree of Life Uprooted Location: Feador, Alfheim Description: After some months of deep research Treekeepers of clan Feadiel devised a way to uproot a Tree of Life for transportation without harming it. Today Jorodrin Feadiel (Treekeeper of clan Feadiel) and his assistants perform the ceremony and uproot their Tree of Life, keeping its roots in their original ground. What this means: By now all plants and trees in the forest except Home Trees are dead; the Fair folk fled the forest and most animals have already died, while the number of monsters increases; and Trees of Life are nearing death too but if this ceremony is successful perhaps it will be possible to prevent the death of the Trees of Life. 1007, Klarmont 23: Tree of Life Looks Fine Location: Feador, Alfheim Description: The Tree of Life that was uprooted last week looks fine: i.e. not better than before, but not much worse either. What this means: It looks as if the uprooting ceremony was successful. Now the seven clans of Alfheim know that they have a chance of saving their Trees of Life from the strange disease that struck the forest about eight months ago. In the following weeks Treekepers will be busy performing the ceremony on other Trees of Life and finding a new home for them. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 22:19:05 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: [MYSTARA] - [REPOST] Alfheim Invasion Timeline (2/2) 1007, Felmont 1: Important Meeting in Elleromyr Location: Elleromyr, Alfheim Description: King Doriath, General Gilfronden, Captain Brightsword and their most trusted advisors meet in Elleromyr to plan the flight from Alfheim. The elves will split in two groups: clans Chossum, Red Arrow and Feadiel will go south to Karameikos crossing eastern Darokin and the Cruth mountains; clans Erendyl, Mealidil, Grunalf and Long Runner will head north to Wendar crossing the dangerous Broken Lands and unfriendly Ethengar. Due to the ongoing humanoid invasion elves decide not to enter Glantri, where small groups of elves had already fled. The army will be split too: three warbands led by Captain Brightsword will follow the first group in Karameikos, while General Gilfronden will lead the remaining four warbands toward Wendar. A small Guard of experienced elves will be chosen to defend the Trees of Life, as soon as the Treekepers have found a safe place in Darokin where to leave them. During the meeting Shurengyla, cousin and special agent for King Doriath, tells the others about new sights of Shadow Elves moving stealthily in the twisted forest, unfortunately she has no evidence of a link between the Shadow Elves and the disease that struck the forest. However, Captain Brightsword stands up and swear to seek and kill any Shadow Elf himself. What this means: This meeting is the normal consequence of the decision of leaving made on 15 Thaumont, soon the elves will start packing their bags and in a few months they'll leave the Canolbarth forest, now twisted, dangerous and uninhabitable. Shurengyla brought out a topic which has been haunting the mind of many elves for the last few weeks, i.e. that Shadow Elves and not the fall of the ash may be the cause of the death of their forest. 1007, Felmont 13: Arrows Miss their Target Location: Alfheim Description: Captain Brightsword is barely missed by arrows while patrolling the forest in search of Shadow Elves, but one of his most trusted advisors, a veteran of the war against the Huleans, is killed. The elves are unable to find the murderers, anyway they identify the arrows as coming from clan Chossum, long suspected of sheltering Shadow Elves. Brightsword decides to reach Desnae to meet the Clanmaster of clan Chossum. What this means: This is not clumsy Shadow Elves' attempt at murdering Brightsword, but a way to draw him in Desnae. 1007, Felmont 16: Mind probe in Desnae Location: Desnae, Alfheim Description: Clanmaster Carlisan privately meets Brightsword, that blames him of housing Shadow Elves within his village. Using ESP Carlisan manages to learn unsuspecting Brightsword's true name and then casts charm person to put the Captain under his control. Then Carlisan assures Brightsword of not sheltering Shadow Elves and asks him to let a famous and trusted adventurer of clan Chossum join his patrolling group. What this means: Now Brightsword, the most dangerous Alfheim Elf for General Gilfronden, is under the control of Shadow Elves. Anyway Carlisan knows that the spell effect will not last long, so he puts another Shadow Elf on his tracks with the task of casting a charm person on Brightsword every morning. 1007, Felmont 28: Starlight Legions Move Location: City of the Stars, Shadow Elves Territories Description: Radiant General Garafaele Galeifel orders Starlight Legions I-III to deploy in the area under Alfheim: Legion I in Alfmyr, Legion II in the Citadel of Saulia, Legion III in Narfrendal's Krak. Each Legion has 1020 elves, including 80 Skinwing Riders. [I put together the armies given in PWA II for Aengmor and City of the Stars] What this means: Shadow Elves are getting ready for the final phase of the invasion. 1007, Fyrmont 7: Alfheim and Darokin Make a Deal Location: Alfheim Town, Alfheim Description: King Doriath and General Gilfronden meet elvish members of the Darokin Diplomatic Corp in Alfheim Town today. They discuss about relocating the Trees of Life on Darokinian soil with a mixed Darokinian-Alfheimer honor guard to protect them and about letting the elves freely cross Darokin should they really need to leave their homeland. King Doriath asks the DDC to keep maximum secrecy on this meeting. What this means: Alfheim's rulers are making the final preparation to guarantee a safe escape for the elves. 1007, Fyrmont 14: Treekepers Meet Again in Feador Location: Feador, Alfheim Description: Treekeepers from the seven clans meet today in Feador to discuss the relocation of the Trees of Life. Shurengyla, cousin and special agent for King Doriath, takes part to the meeting. Treekeepers from clan Long Runner show a new spell that will make a Tree of Life look like a normal tree, thus sheltering it from hostile eyes. What this means: By now all clans (except Mealidil and Long Runner) have performed the ceremony and uprooted their Tree of Life, so they're ready, though a bit perplexed, to relocate the dying Trees of Life in Southern and Eastern Darokin. 1007, Fyrmont 20: Clan Feadiel Moves its Tree of Life Location: Feador, Alfheim Description: To set a good example Jorodrin Feadiel, Treekeeper of clan Feadiel, orders its Tree of Life (actually a daughter of the one in the Sylvan Realm) moved in a forest in Southern Darokin, outside the twisted Canolbarth Forest. What this means: Clan Feadiel is the first to move its Tree of Life, soon the other clans (except clans Long Runner and Mealidil) will start doing the same. The Trees will be relocated in the most densely forested area just beyond the Darokinian border, though not too close to it so that they will not be further affected by the sickening, or at least this is what Alfheim elves hope. 1007, Ambyrmont 1: The Council of Clans sets Evacuation Day Location: Elleromyr, Alfheim Description: About 11 months ago the forest gave the first symptoms of sickness, by now the forest is dead and the Clanmasters, gathered in Elleromyr for the last time, sadly decide to depart their beloved forest on 15 Ambyrmont. King Doriath and General Gilfronden are charged to carefully plan the departure. Anyway the decision is not unanimous: Beasthunter and Mealidan Mealidil, Clanmaster of clans Long Runner and Mealidil respectively, bitterly disagree on leaving the forest and warn the others that leaving the forest would only kill the Trees of Life and inevitably corrupt the elvish way of life. At the end of the meeting the Clanmasters greet each other, maybe for the last time. What this means: The die is cast. Now that all Trees of Life but two are safely guarded in Darokin, time has come to leave the forest and reach Wendar and Karameikos, where the long-living elves can start a new life while trying to find a way to heal their withered forest. Anyway Beasthunter and Mealidil didn't order their Trees of Life uprooted yet as they're firmly convinced not to leave. 1007, Ambyrmont 2: Planning the Flight Location: Elleromyr, Alfheim Description: King Doriath meets his advisors to plan the flight. Shurengyla brings news from Glantri and Darokin showing that, while the humanoids are besieging Glantri City and destroying the countryside around it, their number in the eastern Broken Lands is somewhat decreased thus lowering the risk in crossing that area, and proposes to leave a few troops in Alfheim to defend the forest from likely Shadow Elves attacks. Anyway General Gilfronden still thinks that it would be a big mistake to spare troops from escorting the fleeing elves and order them to defend the twisted Canolbarth Forest. King Doriath trusts his old friend Gilfronden and decides to proceed as established on 1 Felmont. What this means: General Gilfronden, actually a Shadow Elf spy, doesn't want to fight his brethren so, knowing that the invasion will take place in the upcoming month of Army, he advises King Doriath that he has better to preserve the army for what will be a dangerous journey. 1007, Ambyrmont 3: Messengers reach Clanholds Location: Alfheim Description: Messengers from King Doriath reach today the various Clanholds bringing the latest news about the evacuation. The flight will take place as decided on 1 Felmont: clans Chossum, Red Arrow and Feadiel, escorted by three warbands lead by Captain Brightsword will go south to Karameikos crossing eastern Darokin and the Cruth mountains; clans Erendyl, Mealidil, Grunalf and Long Runner, escorted by four warbands, will head north to Wendar crossing the dangerous Broken Lands and unfriendly Ethengar. What this means: Now everyone knows what to do. Elves everywhere in Alfheim will finish to pack their bags and load their carts and beasts of burden, then they'll pull out of the dust their old swords, bows and spellbooks to prepare for what looks like a very dangerous trip. What the PC can do: Adventurers from Alfheim may organize armed rear-guards to protect their fleeing family, or may instead decide not to flee in order to defend their abandoned village from unscrupulous thieves, dwarves and humanoids. 1007, Ambyrmont 4: Beasthunter and Mealidil meet Location: Mealidor, Alfheim Description: Clanmasters Beasthunter and Mealidil meet today in Mealidor to discuss the message from King Doriath that they received yesterday. Both leaders are firmly convinced not to leave their homeland, but they must admit that the forest has grown increasingly dark, dangerous and inhospitable in the previous months and in spite of their long researches they haven't found the way of saving the dying Trees of life yet. They decide to stay and go on with the research until the spring, but they also decide to let the other clanmembers free to make up their mind whether to leave or to stay. What this means: Both Clanmasters still think that they've better not to leave, but they certainly noticed a growing fear and uneasiness among their clans, so they decide to stay with the Trees of Life but without compelling the others to do like them. Obviously King Doriath and General Gilfronden won't be satisfied with this decision, the former because there will be few armed elves to escort the main group in the dangerous journey, the latter because the invading Shadow Elves will find a certain opposition in taking over Mealidor and Pinitel. 1007, Ambyrmont 10: Starlight Legions take Stand Location: Shadow Elves Territories Description: General Garafaele receives news about the Alfheim elves moves from his cousin Gilfronden and orders Starlight Legions I, II and III to deploy in the tunnels under the Canolbarth forest, which were built by Tunnel Shapers about one year ago. What this means: Knowing that the surface elves will flee the twisted forest on 15 Ambyrmont, the Radiant General urges his troops to cover the 6,000 feet that divide Alfheim from the Shadow Elves Territories. The upward thrust of more than 3000 armed elves will surely drive several monsters out of their homes and many of them will pop up in Alfheim and attack the fleeing elves. 1007, Ambyrmont 15: Elves leave the Twisted Forest Location: Alfheim & Darokin Description: In a move that shocks the Darokinian folk, but, of course, not the well-informed DDC, the elves of Alfheim flee their country. Several long queues made of thousand of carts, horses and elves dot the Darokinian landscape departing like tendrils from the twisted forest and heading north-west to Corunglain and south-east to Selenica. Only about half the elves from clans Long Runner and Mealidil flee with King Doriath, the others decide to stay in Alfheim to defend their Trees of Life, their villages and their Clanmasters. What this means: More than 70,000 Alfheim elves flee their twisted and darkened forest, as planned in the previous months. Even if the elves and the Darokinians are friends, such a huge exodus will surely cause a little friction with human farmers, as the fleeing elves cross their fields or frighten their cattle. Anyway this is a minor problem for the fleeing elves, when compared to what awaits them when crossing the Broken Lands or the Cruth mountains. 1007, Ambyrmont 17: Shadow Elves Strike Location: Canolbarth Forest Description: During the night well armed Shadow Elves troops enter the twisted forest creeping out of tunnels and quickly overwhelm the small groups of elves that stayed to defend their homeland, but they must retreat before dawn, because they aren't light-adapted yet. The fiercest fights take place by Pinitel and Mealidor, where the most numerous groups of Alfheim elves are, but, thanks to their superior number, the Shadow Elves manage to defeat their opponents before dawn. Before fleeing north the few survivors from clans Long Runner and Mealidil manage to disguise their Trees of Life using a spell. (See Fyrmont 14). A small group of Shadow Elves, equipped with magical amulets that allow them to ignore the effect of normal light, fights its way to Alfheim Town only to find abandoned buildings. For the first time skinwings fly over the darkened forest. What this means: The Shadow Elves invasion has grown overt. General Garafaele decided to launch the attack on Army 1, a fasti day according to the Shadow Elves calendar, to further boost the morale of his troops and to please Rafiel and his shamans. As planned the Starlight Legions found almost no resistance in invading the forest, now their main problem is to adapt to sunlight, though the darkening of the forest caused by Atzanteotl's spell will make this easier. Anyway they'll secure their total control of the forest in about twenty days. 1007, Ambyrmont 18: Reactions to the Invasion Location: Darokin City, Corunglain, Nemiston, Darokin Description: Darokinian and elvish authorities receive news of the invasion from the fleeing member of clans today at about midday and react in different ways: ˇ In Darokin City a worried Chancellor Corwyn Mauntea puts his remaining troops on alert, as well as the Magistrates whose holdings border the Canolbarth Forest, meanwhile, knowing that the Darokinian army would be unable to stop a possible attack from the twisted forest, he urges the DDC to get in touch with this unknown invader. ˇ In Corunglain messengers from Clanmasters of clans Long Runner and Mealidil, whose Trees of Life are still in the Canolbarth Forest disguised as normal trees, prompt King Doriath to send back some troops to defend the forest, but the King, advised by his old friend General Gilfronden, decides to spare his troops for the long and dangerous trip through the Broken Lands and Ethengar. Anyway King Doriath allows groups of fearless adventurers from both clans to go back to Alfheim to collect news about the invasion. ˇ News of the invasion reach Captain Brightsword in Nemiston and he himself sees big birdlike creatures (actually Skinwings) flying over the forest. He is eager to order his warbands back into Alfheim to fight those much-hated Shadow Elves, but he knows that he has to cross the Cruth mountains before winter comes, so he decides to reinforce his rear-guard and to reach Selenica as soon as possible. What this means: Shadow Elves were long seen as an elvish legend outside Alfheim, so Darokinians are worried and shocked to see that they really exist, moreover Darokin never considered Alfheim as a possible threat and his armed forces, much reduced after the war against the Master, would be completely unable to stop an attack coming from the very center of the Republic. The diplomatic way is again the only hope for Darokinians in the event of an attack. General Gilfronden doesn't want to fight his brethren, this is the true reason for his refusal to send troops to defend the forest. Besides he will surely warn the Shadow Elves that groups of adventurers are coming, so that they can be ambushed, thus providing him with a new argumentation to support his idea of not using troops in an impossible defense of the twisted forest. 1007, Ambyrmont 28: Party time at Atzanteotl's mansion Location: Pandius Description: There's a lavish party tonight at Atzanteotl's mansion in Pandius to feast the utter defeat of Ilsundal. Hel, Alphaks and Rafiel attend the party. What this means: The invasion of Alfheim was a major stroke against Ilsundal, one of Atzanteotl's main enemies. Rafiel is not entropic and doesn't hate Ilsundal, but he has to attend the party to avoid Atzanteotl's suspicions. 1007, Sviftmont 9: Alfheim Town renamed Location: Alfheim Town, Canolbarth Forest Description: General Garafaele, accompanied by Princess Tanadaleyo (who personally participated in the attack), enters today in Alfheim Town welcomed by his cheering troops, sets his headquarters in the former dwarfish Guildmasters' Hall, the largest stone building in the town, takes possession of the city in the name of King Telemon and renames it Rafielton. King Celedryl Plaza is also renamed Rafiel Square. After exchanging messages with King Telemon via scroll of communication, Garafaele orders his troops to prepare the city for the King's visit. What this means: This is the first official act of the Shadow Elves in former Alfheim. By now Garafaele's legions have conquered the whole forest, and somewhere they even occupied the Darokinian borderlands. Now they're celebrating their victory, but soon they'll have to start rebuilding and it will be a hard task. General Garafaele plans to destroy the wooden buildings in Rafielton and even the ironwood wall that surround the city, to replace them with the more familiar stone buildings and a solid stone wall. 1007, Sviftmont 17: Tanadaleyo crowned Location: Rafielton Description: In Rafiel Square, King Telemon renames the newly conquered Canolbarth Forest into Aengmor, after a near-legendary city they built and lost more than two thousand years ago, then he crowns his daughter, the Radiant Princess Tanadaleyo, as Governor of Aengmor. The Radiant General Garafaele is named Warlord of Aengmor. In a long speech the Radiant Shaman Porphyriel announces that the prophecies of Rafiel finally came true and now they have a place on the surface where they can live under the sun and among green trees (or so they think), moreover she sets this day, King 5 according to the Shadow Elves calendar, as a new fasti day. Meanwhile in their underground cities other shamans are preaching similar things to the whole Shadow Elves population. What this means: Everyone is happy here, let's see why: Tanadaleyo is ambitious and has long dreamed of being Princess of Alfheim, now her dream has come true. Garafaele has finally succeeded where his predecessors failed: conquering Alfheim and gaining a bright place in the Shadow Elves history. Telemon has long coveted the Canolbarth Forest and now he has it, and he did all this without help from the shamans !!! Porphyriel is happy because she can claim than the conquest of Alfheim is the will of Rafiel, thus strengthening the faith of his people in Rafiel, which was quickly dropping after centuries of privations and unfulfilled promises. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #597 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, September 4 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 598 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Problems with Skills Re: [MYSTARA] - Problems with Skills Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics and Magical items [MYSTARA] - Re : [REPOST] Alfheim Invasion Timeline (2/2) Re: [MYSTARA] - Problems with Skills Re(2): [MYSTARA] - Problems with Skills Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics and Magical items Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics and Magical items Re: [MYSTARA] - Problems with Skills Re: [MYSTARA] - Problems with Skills Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics and Magical items Re: [MYSTARA] - Problems with Skills [MYSTARA] - [Question], CM1 Re: [MYSTARA] - [Question], CM1 Re: Re(2): [MYSTARA] - Problems with Skills Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics and Magical items Re: [MYSTARA] - Catching up: 11-15 August RE: [MYSTARA] - Catching up: 11-15 August [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Terrorists/stuff [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Zimri's Blackmoor ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 17:03:40 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Problems with Skills On Thu, 3 Sep 1998, DM wrote: > Now, some of my players have argued that these depends not on the actual > Intelligence of the worker, but on its manual skills (thus Dexterity). My > problem is now: where to place all these skills? Dex or int? Your opinion? These particular skills, IMHO, are really kind of both. It takes intelligence and creativity to think up a design, but it takes the talent with your body to sucessfully work that design. HOWEVER. Anyone can learn to work with their hands. That takes practice. I have seen very old men whose hands shake still make amazing things with toothpicks, glue and some free time. Therefore, I'd say with conviction that those skills depend more on the creativity of the character, as art comes from the mind more than the hands. Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 16:02:13 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Problems with Skills > I see your problem. While not a practicioner of any of the above, I fully > recognize the need for a staedy hand in all pf them, but I think they were > placed under INT to try to capture the spirit that these are, in a way, art > forms and dependant on the inner eye of the carver more than his hands. Its > definately a place where the simplified sklls of D&D break down. > I agree with the above, and I also think you could go crazy trying to "rectify" all the skills. Its easier to just leave them were they are. As to the below, that would depend on how much detail you want to deal with. Fairly smallish change, IMO, but still. > Why not have your characters make a INT roll for design and appraisal > (figuring the best way to cut and arraing a certain stone; choosing the best > marble for a sculpture; designing the best suports/asthetic combo for an > archway to a cathedral), and a DEX roll for actual cutting/working? Or try an > average. Or pick one and apply a modifier if the task is dependant on a > different facet (after all Dex and STR both affect combat) ie. You say that > Gemcutting is a dex skill and the character has a very high/low INT. You might > apply a modifier to the end GP value of the stone based on the choice of cut. > Hmm? > > As in all things, GM, use your best judgement based on the situation, and be > flexible to ensure maximum fun for all. > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 17:12:36 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics and Magical items On Thu, 3 Sep 1998, DM wrote: > On a similar note, do you give clerics the permission to create new spells? > Do you think it's reasonable? Umm. this is hard. Immortals give Clerics spells, right? So they don't have spellbooks. Theoretically, a Cleric doesn't even need to be literate (His prayers being taught by an oral tradition). This is a sticky issue. I would have to say that An Immortal can grant a cleric a spell he/she could not normally cast for an especially fervent prayer (say fireball) but I don't think Clerics should be able to create new spells (it would seem to usurp the Immortals power over them) Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 23:36:05 +0200 From: Antonio Lopez <101659@ingta.unizar.es> Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re : [REPOST] Alfheim Invasion Timeline (2/2) Really fascinant, but whats happend with General Gilfronden, Clanmaster Carlisan and other shadow elfs diguised between elfs after the invasion? They live in Wendar for ever or they left to Aengmor? - -=-=-=-=-=-=- Antonio Lopez ICQ 14670831 http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Ring/1639/index.html - -=-=-=-=-=-=- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 23:32:01 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Problems with Skills At 20.38 03/09/98 +0200, DM wrote: >Now, some of my players have argued that these depends not on the actual >Intelligence of the worker, but on its manual skills (thus Dexterity). My >problem is now: where to place all these skills? Dex or int? Your opinion? Look Marco, the following is from Gaz13. I think it can answer your question. - ----------------------------- Craft and Professional Skills Every shadow elf must have at least one skill which can earn him a living; even a shaman must specialize in some trade, just as any other citizen. These different skills make use of different character abilities, and some can even be variable, depending on the ruling of your DM. For example, many crafts can be seen as based on either Intelligence or Dexterity, depending upon the degree to which the craftsmanship approaches the level of artistry. The craft skills may be included among the Dexterity-based skills because manual dexterity, patience, and practice are important in learning the basics of any craft. Alternatively, they may be included among Intelligence-based skills because training, attention to detail, and proper planning are important to the end result. DMs may decide to use both designations in the same campaign. The Intelligence-based crafter may make the lovelier products, while a Dexterity-based crafter makes solid, serviceable goods. - ---------------------------------- ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com DM in City Of The Stars - Mystaran Almanac Assistant Student of Aerospace Enginnering - ICQ #1688817 Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 15:45:38 -0700 From: harold@grid.wizards.com (Harold Johnson) Subject: Re(2): [MYSTARA] - Problems with Skills mystara-l@MPGN.COM,Earth writes: >In a message dated 98-09-03 15:22:27 EDT, you write: > ><< A big problem I'm having these days concerns general skills (or > proficiencies). Some of them have been labeled as "Intelligence" skills, >in > particular: > Gemcutting > Stonecutting/Sculptor > Jeweler > Woodworking > Metalworking > Glassblowing > > Now, some of my players have argued that these depends not on the actual > Intelligence of the worker, but on its manual skills (thus Dexterity). My > problem is now: where to place all these skills? Dex or int? Your >opinion? > >> The original thought was that any skill which required analysis and calculation was an Intelligence check. I do think the use of different Ability Scores for different applications of the skill is an acceptable alternative. Harold > > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 17:43:45 -0600 (MDT) From: John Hare Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics and Magical items > > On a similar note, do you give clerics the permission to create new spells? > > Do you think it's reasonable? Clerics make magic items and research spells with costs similar to that of Magic-Users. The main difference is that it must be centered around a temple or other place of worship of the Cleric's Immortal. For magic items they get the item built, cast the spells and then have it ready for the Immortal's blessing (ie the check to see if it became magical). The time required to make it is spent in meditation and petitioning the Immortal to 'let it work'. Same idea for spell research, the cleric must meditate in a place of worship for a number of days, if the spell is found worth then that cleric has access to it from his/her Immortal. Other clerics of the Immortal may be instructed by the creator to gain the spell. (ie magic users teaching their spells to others) The cost in gold is spent/sacrificed to the Immortal and thus out of the players hands. Off hand I can't remember where I read this, but to maintain balance it should be comparable to that of Magic-Users. "If death is inevitable, you might as well lie back and enjoy it." -Solomon Short _A Season for Slaughter_ John Hare *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 00:48:12 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics and Magical items > >> On a similar note, do you give clerics the permission to create new spells? >> Do you think it's reasonable? Yeah, I do. The cleric spends time beseeching his Immortal to grant him this new spell. I consider the standard spells to be the "baseline" spells for a cleric, which an average cleric could expect to get. A cleric who shows his devotion and initiative in asking for a new spell generally gets it as his reward. Similar to clerics who dont show exemplary behaviour may lose a few spells. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 14:33:08 -0700 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Problems with Skills At 08:38 PM 9/3/98 +0200, DM wrote: >I've got a rules question for you, so listen carefully. [...] > >Now, some of my players have argued that these depends not on the actual >Intelligence of the worker, but on its manual skills (thus Dexterity). My >problem is now: where to place all these skills? Dex or int? Your opinion? What about a compromise (we do this in some of the campaigns I play or run): In the appropriate cases, use BOTH stats to determine the users chance by taking the average and rounding up. (i.e., if INT = 14 and DEX = 11 then the average is 13 (12.5 rounded up). An appropriate case is where you can say that the user is not only KNOWLEDGABLE in the area (i.e., has the intelligence to understand the subleties of gemcutting, sculpting, etc.) but also has the skill to manipulate the tools etc. Someone might be very good at appraising the cut and shine of Jewellery, but not all that good at actually doing, for example. I don't know if that will help you, but hey. :-) Jenni - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield http://www.jamm.com/jenni/home.html - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- strawberry@jamm.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 19:56:41 EDT From: Magesmiley@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Problems with Skills In a message dated 9/3/98 12:22:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time, mdalmonte@provincia.ra.it writes: << I've got a rules question for you, so listen carefully. A big problem I'm having these days concerns general skills (or proficiencies). Some of them have been labeled as "Intelligence" skills, in particular: Gemcutting Stonecutting/Sculptor Jeweler Woodworking Metalworking Glassblowing Now, some of my players have argued that these depends not on the actual Intelligence of the worker, but on its manual skills (thus Dexterity). My problem is now: where to place all these skills? Dex or int? Your opinion? >> I personally allow most of the craft type skills to be based on intelligence or dexterity (player's choice). I have found that these types of skills not to have too huge an impact on the game typically, and the slightly higher scores which result from letting the players choose which ability to base the skill on really has a more or less negligible overall impact. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 00:55:41 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics and Magical items >Hi again! > >Another quick rules problem. IYC, what kind of magical items can clerics >manufacture? I mean, potions, staffs, armours (?), weapons (??)... And how >did they actually manage to create them? how do they enchant them, what's >the process used? Well, I just use the Rulz for this (Lawyers wig deployed...) I would have to dig around for precisely what the Rulz allow clerics to make, but from memory i think it is pretty well everything, barring stuff that wizards only can use (ie Staff of the Magi, that sort of thing), and with a hefty spice of DM judgment (ie, probably only a patron of thieves could knock up thieving items, that sort of thing). Its fairly easy to judge what items an Immortal may permit to be made if u have an idea of what spheres the Immortal may grant. As the the process of creating them - similar to a wizard. The priest needs a temple (instead of a lab) and offers up rare items and gifts to his Immortal (instead of ingredients). Basically the priestly process parallels the mages in all respects (makes it easy, anyway). I believe that once all this devotion has been shown, the Immortal imbues the item as a "reward". But the precise technicalities are more vague... I am actually fairly liberal with clerical items. After all, they further the Immortals religion, which is good. Whereas mage items require a lot of hard work, probably better spent on spell research... IMC the priesthood of Vanya automatically gives out enchanted armour and weapons, depending on the rank of the priest. Of course, this is "Armour of the Faith", and thus the priest MUST wear this armour, he cant wear another suit because it is enchanted to a greater degree. I also say that this stuff has no effect if worn by a non priest - this is a gift of Vanya to her servitors, and it is not her will that those who get hold of the armour (from priests they have killed) enjoy its benefits... Cheerz Rob Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 23:34:24 -0500 (EST) From: rdroe@iupui.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Problems with Skills I'm sorry if everyone has already come up with a fix to your Int vs. Dex problem for certain skills but here is my two cents. I'd have to say that those particular skills such as gem cutting and the others, though they would require a steady hand and good dexterity, are intelligence skills. After all what good is a steady hand for cutting rubies if you are making the cuts in the wrong place. As a skill based on intelligence it shows the character knows what cuts to make to bring out the beauty of the stone. Robert D'eath Roe On Thu, 3 Sep 1998, DM wrote: > Hi fellow listmembers! > > I've got a rules question for you, so listen carefully. > A big problem I'm having these days concerns general skills (or > proficiencies). Some of them have been labeled as "Intelligence" skills, in > particular: > Gemcutting > Stonecutting/Sculptor > Jeweler > Woodworking > Metalworking > Glassblowing > > Now, some of my players have argued that these depends not on the actual > Intelligence of the worker, but on its manual skills (thus Dexterity). My > problem is now: where to place all these skills? Dex or int? Your opinion? > > DM > > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 04:31:08 PDT From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: [MYSTARA] - [Question], CM1 Hi Mystarans, I'm not very well informed of all that's written for our beloved world, and some facts stay in shadow for me ... I think you're a lot to have the module CM1 : Test of the Warlords, and i belong to these ... But after having read the all module, i don't manage to set it in the time. When shall it be setted ? In AC 1000 ? I'm currently reading "Dragon King" (i'm not sure English title is the same), and i wonder if the module CM1 couldn't be setted at this tim (AC 500) ? Thanks to answear, and have a good weekend, full of treasures, dangers and glory ... Friendly Marcus ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 08:26:31 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Question], CM1 Indeed, you will find much in that book (Dragon King) to be contradictory to CM1. You may pick one of 3 explanations... 1) CM1 Never happens and its all a lie (the least satisfactory choice) 2) The Dragon King never happens but is an interesting fantasy (my personal favorite) 3) The time between The Dragon King and CM1 sees alot of changes. CM1 should be set in AC1000 GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine wrote: > > > Hi Mystarans, > > I'm not very well informed of all that's written for our beloved > world, and some facts stay in shadow for me ... > > I think you're a lot to have the module CM1 : Test of the Warlords, and > i belong to these ... But after having read the all module, i don't > manage to set it in the time. When shall it be setted ? In AC 1000 ? > I'm currently reading "Dragon King" (i'm not sure English title is the > same), and i wonder if the module CM1 couldn't be setted at this tim (AC > 500) ? > > Thanks to answear, and have a good weekend, full of treasures, dangers > and glory ... > > Friendly > Marcus > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 15:22:08 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: Re(2): [MYSTARA] - Problems with Skills On Thu, 3 Sep 1998, Harold Johnson wrote: > The original thought was that any skill which required analysis and > calculation was an Intelligence check. I do think the use of different > Ability Scores for different applications of the skill is an acceptable > alternative. This is a good idea. If you are familiar with the White Wolf games (Vampire etc..) you'll know that in that system, which ability that goes with which skill is solely based on the situation. Intimidation might be based on strength, but if you are trying to guess what ways your enemy is trying to intimidate you in, an INT roll might be mroe appropriate. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Ah Gandhi! What a Mensch. And he looked good in a robe too!" -Douglas Wambaugh, Picket Fences. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 15:34:05 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics and Magical items On Thu, 3 Sep 1998, DM wrote: > Hi again! Hi Marco > Another quick rules problem. IYC, what kind of magical items can clerics > manufacture? I mean, potions, staffs, armours (?), weapons (??)... And how > did they actually manage to create them? how do they enchant them, what's > the process used? > > On a similar note, do you give clerics the permission to create new spells? > Do you think it's reasonable? I'd let them create anything. Well, anything that would seem appropriate to their religion. Clerics of Vanya might create swords and armour, while clerics of Koryis might not. Clerics of Chardastes would probably be more likely to create a healing potion, than a potion of poison. The process will probably vary greatly from immortal to immortal, but it will generally be about preparing the item and praying for it to be blessed by the immortal. (I'd use the rules presented in the books) Optional rule: Anyone casting a detect magic on a clerical magical item are allowed an INT roll. If successful, it will be revealed that the item is clerical and the identity of the immortal will also be revealed, _if_ the immortal in question is known to the caster. If the immortal is known under many names, only the name that the immortals cleric knows him by is revealed. Again, only if the caster is familiar with that identity of the immortal. Spells: The cleric may pray for special spells. These spells should be appropriate for the immortal patron of the cleric. Use the rules for creating new spells. just my ideas... Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Ah Gandhi! What a Mensch. And he looked good in a robe too!" -Douglas Wambaugh, Picket Fences. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 16:11:42 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Catching up: 11-15 August On Wed, 26 Aug 1998 ExTSR@aol.com wrote: > Håvard offered, on 15 Aug in "Immortal Ressurection" [sic]: < Immortal Law death is under the juristiction [sic] of Entropy so other > Hierarchs cannot force Entropy on this matter.>> > > Not bad -- but this inherently places Entropy above all others, as final judge > & jury on all things. Obviously not so. Since Entropy does have the edge in > the long run (as all things tend to run down, i.e. the classic definition of > entropy), it has great patience in achieving its goals. Good point. On second thought, the decicion on this should be left to the council of hierarchs. The hierarch of the same sphere as the dead immortal in question, is not allowed to vote. Usually, the entity who wishes to ressurect a fallen immortal must perform a task to prove that the dead immortal is worthy of being ressurrected. > Imho, if any immortal is unlucky or stupid enough to be slain, that should > be it; there are plenty of applicants. Think of it as evolution in action > [Niven], and/or a local winner of the multiversal Darwin award for > chlorinating the gene pool. hehe, well, the reason why I want to include immortal ressurection is that I want to simmulate stories like the attempted ressurection of Baldur, Disneys Hercules etc... I am also a player in a glorantha campaign. That is a world in which it is not unusual to travel to hell and bring a dead comrade back. (Not saying its easy or that any of my characters have ever been powerful enough to pull that trick. > Håvard, later: << See, its easy to make up excuses so my theories don't > conflict 'canon'. I think I should become a lawyer...>> > Ah, Lawful Neutral with evil tendencies, eh? But ofcourse! :) Actually my main principle is that of MGF, Maximum Game Fun. Also I believe that anything should be possible as long as the player comes up with a good idea. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Ah Gandhi! What a Mensch. And he looked good in a robe too!" -Douglas Wambaugh, Picket Fences. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 16:49:41 +0200 From: Kristian Kramer Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Catching up: 11-15 August Håvard wrote: > > Håvard, later: << See, its easy to make up excuses so my theories don't > > conflict 'canon'. I think I should become a lawyer...>> > > Ah, Lawful Neutral with evil tendencies, eh? > But ofcourse! :) > Actually my main principle is that of MGF, Maximum Game Fun. Also I > believe that anything should be possible as long as the player comes up > with a good idea. MGF means not only Maximum Game Fun, but also More Game Fun. If one of my players tries to do something, which is not very possible, I'll give him a chance anyway. And why not? He/she could pull it off and become Immortal (if only in name, because players are able to find very clever ways to die :) Kristian Kramer Linus Pauling was once asked how he was able to have so many good ideas. "It's easy to have good ideas," he answered, "First, you have to have a lot of ideas. Then you have to throw away the bad ones." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 17:03:40 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Terrorists/stuff On Tue, 1 Sep 1998, Rob wrote: > As to referral of Darokin being an advanced nation - Darokin seems to be > around the Adam Smith era - but then Glantri is very much Renaissance as > well, and Thyatis is an advanced nation as well. The Savage Coast seems > mainly 16th/17th century, with a couple of exceptions (Cimarron might as > well be 18th/19th, as it is effective post colonial, Eusdria seems to be > back in medieval times). Point is, Mystara is almost without a doubt the > most advanced TSR campaign world, IMHO. > > (What was the point of the last paragraph? I dont know - IMO, i guess...) Well, this is one of the things I find really annoying about Mystara. I think that the level of advancement should stabilize among the countries who are in close contact with eachother. Question is, how advanced should the final level be? If everything will end on say 1700s well end up with a world similar to Castle Falkenstein. Nothing wrong with that I suppose, but I'd rather that things degenerate a bit after WotI. I've been thinking about modernizing the Northern Reaches a bit though. Not to say that I don't like Viking culture, but a bunch of Odin worshipping knights sounds pretty cool too.... Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Ah Gandhi! What a Mensch. And he looked good in a robe too!" -Douglas Wambaugh, Picket Fences. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 18:43:39 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Zimri's Blackmoor Just started to look at the articles. Looks really impressive. I Like the fact that youve treated the Egg of Coot as an Immortal. Howabout having the Egg return in modern Mystara? More later.. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Ah Gandhi! What a Mensch. And he looked good in a robe too!" -Douglas Wambaugh, Picket Fences. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #598 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Saturday, September 5 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 599 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Regression [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Cyberzombiehood Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Cyberzombiehood Re: [MYSTARA] - Re : [REPOST] Alfheim Invasion Timeline (2/2) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Problems with Skills Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics and Magical items Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Regression Re: [MYSTARA] - [Question], CM1 Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 20:03:30 +0300 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E0=E9=EC=EF_=F9=E7=ED?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project Hello Mystarans! The Immortal project is something Ive always wanted to do. but due to lack of time and lazyness I could not do an extensive job such as yours, Aleksei. Im sorry I havn't responded before but as some of you know Im a soldier and dont have much computer time. ^a conversation heard far far in the Judian desert: ^ leautenent general: " OHAD ! WHAT ARE YOU DOING ON MY PC!!" me:" hmm, working sir..." l. general: "WHY IS THAT IN ENGLISH?!" me: "oh , hmm, its a secret US cooparation drill sir.. I forgot to tell you about it..." l. general: "LET ME SEE!...WHAT THE F#%$ IS MYSTARA?! GET THE HELL OUT OF MY OFFICE!" me: "o.k. sir" ^end of conversation^ and back to the immortals, IMC Valerias is an innortal of energy. I changed it from the "canonical" matter( is there such a word?), because she always seemed to me a very fiery immortal devoted to forbbiden love, passion and, hmm -sex. She also is a chaotic immortal and while that alone doesnt make her "energy material" its another atribute to consider. IMHO does who think of Valerias as the dosile homeloving deity devoted to marriege and "healthy" love is missing a lot. That would make her like the Roman godess Hestia the godess of the "home fire" and marriege. Besides , what with the "girder on of wepons" aspect? I know we are only in the letter A but I just couldent help myself. keep on th good work. Morphail (Ohad Shaham) "and all the while as vampires feed- I bleed..." /the Pixies *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 12:45:42 -0500 (CDT) From: Valerya@webtv.net (Jennifer Favia Guerra) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project In response to morphail's message: Yes, i must say that I agree with you about changing Valerias to energy--great idea! I think that it's important not to get so caght up in "canon" versus "non-canon" that you cease to have fun, and the campaign world stops making sense to you personally because it's just not believeable to you. So, yeah, great idea--mind if I steal it? :-) As for the "girder-on of weapons" thing, its just that Valerias is also the patron of duelists (again, the passion aspect over the "Hestia" aspect). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 12:55:17 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Regression > Question is, how advanced should > the final level be? If everything will end on say 1700s well end up with > a world similar to Castle Falkenstein. Nothing wrong with that I suppose, > but I'd rather that things degenerate a bit after WotI. > Well, I'd tend to agree; most countries are getting not only advanced, which I don't really mind, but somewhat civilized/stable. I think Mystara needs some 'noid invasions or something, some events to precipitate a "new dark age" , break up some of the kingdoms, make things more dangerous in general; more adventure. Even the so-called "Kingdom of Adventure" is becoming a model of civilized stability and effective central government. Time to stir the pot. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 15:19:55 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Hi MMLers! The davania group has been in the midst of a major discussion on the subject of the remaining Blackmoorian Technology on Mystara. Blackmoorian technology is defined as any high-technology item, robots, lasers, energy shields, gunpowder, etc. In short, there are a few solutions that we have come up with. 1) Technology doesn't exist on Mystara. Period. The relics left are all broken/unservicable. This is a bad solution, at least for us, since Davania is ripe with Ancient Blackmoorian things. Also it goes against Canon, since Jaggar von Drachenfels has that Blackmoorian Laser. 2) Technology exists, but it is falling apart unless it is repaired. New technology can be built. This is an almost acceptable solution. But it really gets in the way of game balance. If technology is repairable without using magic, then it is possible however unlikely that an inventive PC/NPC could theoretically develop high technology, much like how Blackmoor reverse engineered the Beagle. This could snowball into an undesirable game breaking situation. 3) Technology exists, is falling apart, but can't be repaired or built without magic (technomancy). This solution says that technology can exist, but if it breaks or runs out of charges, only magic can fix it. This solution is very steady-state. All the Blackmoor technology left is what is left, since no new technology can be built on Mystara because of magical interference by the Nucleus of the Spheres. 4) Technology exists, can be built, but is corrupted by the existence of the NoS. Only Technomancy can make technology function normally. This idea assigns a particular "corruption score" to any bit of tehnology left on mystara. The way this works is this: The more complex/large an object is, the larger cumulative percentage chance per use/day/month/year that it will completely cease to function unless brought out of the Nucleus of the Sphere's influence. (i.e Off Mystara) The only way that a particular object can be used successfully on Mystara is to repar/rebuild it using a particular form of magic called technomancy (the magic of high technology) The theory behind this is When the Nucleus of the Spheres was created as an artifact, it permanently changed the local laws of physics, so that non-magical electromagnetic fields were surpressed (or some other quasi-Physics description). For example: A laser has 30 charges left. Every use of the laser has a 2% cumulative chance that the laser will completely cease to function. When the laser is out of charges, it stops working permanently. An optics engineer looks at the weapon, but finds nothing wrong. It SHOULD work, but it doesnt, even with a new battery. That engineer brings the weapon to the local mage, who points him to the crazy technomancer college down in Davania. Engineer goes to the Citadel and gets the weapon repaired. However, the weapon comes out being completely different of design, weighs more, and is a bit bulkier, but it works. I prefer the last case, and its in agreement with canon and game balance, since pure technology is restricted, and magic makes technology more bulky and less efficient, thus making those items more D&D friendly. Any thoughts? TSR has never been really solid on high tech. an MML consensus would help us all out. Ethan/Max IV - DV team. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 15:35:46 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Cyberzombiehood > > Blackmoorian technology is defined as any high-technology item, robots, > lasers, energy shields, gunpowder, etc. > Well, we know gunpowder doesn't work on Mystara (c.f. Red Steel). As far as that other stuff, if I had a preference, I'd leave it all as "interestingly shaped junk", since I play Shadowrun when I want to mix really high tech with magic (some magic items that "duplicate" the effects of high tech items, ok. A very few *rare* scattered "artifacts", fine. But as for more. . . .) Anyhow, it is probably too late to pull you guys back from the brink, so just the following advice: > > > Any thoughts? > If a Technomancer offers to "make you really powerful by turning you into a cyberzombie", just say "no". Don't let 'em do to you what they did to Hatchetman. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 23:01:33 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) >Hi MMLers! > >The davania group has been in the midst of a major discussion on the >subject of the remaining Blackmoorian Technology on Mystara. > >Blackmoorian technology is defined as any high-technology item, robots, >lasers, energy shields, gunpowder, etc. Ive used tech in adventures before (I ran the Tale of the Comet in Mystara - it ruled!). I say that technology on Mystara, unless stabilised with technomancy (ie a new school of magic), is dangerously unstable. (IIRC, in the Immortal Storm adventure it says similar things if the PCs take some guns off the Chicago police back to Mystara :). Basically, there is a chance that Something Bad happens when using the techno item... Concerning duplicating technomancy - thats one thing I hate. The Ancient, Mighty Empire of Alphatia didnt develop aeromancy in a day, ditto Blackmoor technomancy. Technomancy certainly is not going to be reinvented - or even begin to be reinvented - in the PCs lifetimes. This is assuming, of course, that the Immortals even permit such things to be practiced, given what happened the last time... Gunpowder i consider to be a special case. Savage Coast gunpowder does not work in the KW IMC, however I have allowed the resident party Alchemist to make a modified form of smokepowder with the Circle of Alchemy abilities. As the alchemist created stuff loses its potency after a while, that isnt game breaking. Guns (even the snaplock muskets that Cimarron has IMC) are not nearly as game breaking as gunpowder (the 50 charge bomb)... Of course, this is all IMC/IMHO... But, as a final point - this stuff shouldnt be overused. The Tale of the Comet was good because it was unusual - the magic vs technology idea makes for good adventures. However, if it became anything but exceedingly rare it would wreck the game. I dont fancy turning Mystara into Shadowrun either... Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 18:15:49 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Cyberzombiehood On Fri, 4 Sep 1998, James Ruhland wrote: > If a Technomancer offers to "make you really powerful by turning you into a > cyberzombie", just say "no". > Don't let 'em do to you what they did to Hatchetman. hehe. I'm not thinking about that angle. The most a technomancer could realistacally do is fix a severed limb using bionics, kind of like the Blacklore elves, but less efficient. Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 22:06:43 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re : [REPOST] Alfheim Invasion Timeline (2/2) At 23.36 03/09/98 +0200, Antonio Lopez wrote: >Really fascinant, but whats happend with General Gilfronden, Clanmaster >Carlisan and other shadow elfs diguised between elfs after the invasion? >They live in Wendar for ever or they left to Aengmor? According to the unofficial Mystara Net-Almanac General Gilfronden went to Wendar and was killed in AC 1015 during the war with Denagoth (Marco?). Instead Carlisan is still Clanmaster of Clan Chossum in Karameikos, where he also hold some lesser noble status (Clan Chossum was given a dominion by King Stefan). Besides he's still a spy for the shadow elves. More about the Shadow Elves spies coming very soon. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com DM in City Of The Stars - Mystaran Almanac Assistant Student of Aerospace Enginnering - ICQ #1688817 Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 21:20:08 -0400 From: Andrew Toth Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) >3) Technology exists, is falling apart, but can't be repaired or built >without magic (technomancy). > >This solution says that technology can exist, but if it breaks or runs >out of charges, only magic can fix it. This solution is very steady-state. >All the Blackmoor technology left is what is left, since no new technology >can be built on Mystara because of magical interference by the Nucleus of >the Spheres. > >4) Technology exists, can be built, but is corrupted by the existence of >the NoS. Only Technomancy can make technology function normally. I think a better solution would be to combine 3 and 4. Technology exist, works if not damaged, and if damaged, can be repaired with either magic or technology. Just that no one has the expertise to repair without magic. I for one have always thought that the engineering proficiency was always underused. Perhaps it could be combined with magic to make to make knock-offs of Blackmoor technology. Laser with a magically charge power-cell. Or perhaps eldritch runes inscribed over the nodes where the power-cell would have touched. Those runes would draw energy from the air(static electricity?) to power the laser. Say, did anyone read the first novel in the Deathgate Cycle. They had this rune- covered robot... Basically, I've always felt that if magic and technology were combined, they would be a whole lot more potent. The problem is, in people's minds, they are separate, when they are not. On Mystara, magic and technology are part of the natural order of things, I mean, what is magic but an arcane technology? Beyowulf - Jedi Merchant Steely Blue Dragon -==UDIC==- |/ "A wise mercenary picks his battles carefully" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 23:59:12 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Problems with Skills Marco wrote: >I've got a rules question for you, so listen carefully. >A big problem I'm having these days concerns general skills (or >proficiencies). Some of them have been labeled as "Intelligence" skills, in >particular: >Gemcutting >Stonecutting/Sculptor >Jeweler >Woodworking >Metalworking >Glassblowing > >Now, some of my players have argued that these depends not on the actual >Intelligence of the worker, but on its manual skills (thus Dexterity). My >problem is now: where to place all these skills? Dex or int? Your opinion? > For Int - Metalworking (doesn't require as much Dex, but does require knowledge of heating temperatures and cooling techniques, and how to strike and shape the metal) - similar with Woodworking and Sculptor. Jeweler should be an Int skill because it's textbook knowledge of how gems are cut, and what they are worth, and the technique of putting them into necklaces and such - but it could also be Dex (I say allow either). Glassblowing should require Dex because you need a careful touch with the molten glass, turning it by hand ever so slightly when necessary. Gemcutters perform very fine tasks requiring precision - one false move and the gem is ruined when cutting it. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 00:03:14 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics and Magical items Marco said: >Another quick rules problem. IYC, what kind of magical items can clerics >manufacture? I mean, potions, staffs, armours (?), weapons (??)... And how >did they actually manage to create them? how do they enchant them, what's >the process used? > I see no reason why clerics can't create any of the above items, and personally I'd run it so that the cleric approaches the Immortal in a dream (or some other means), and requests a blessing for the creation of the item. If the Immortal approves, then the cleric is given the energy required to create it. >On a similar note, do you give clerics the permission to create new spells? >Do you think it's reasonable? > Sure. IMO, clerics receive magic as a sort of raw energy source from their Immortals, and their prayers are merely subconscious commands that allow them to shape that energy into useful forms - spells. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 00:20:59 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Regression St. James of Screed said: > Even the so-called "Kingdom of Adventure" is becoming a model of civilized >stability and effective central government. Time to stir the pot. > Of course! That's why we need to storm the beaches of Karameikos!! :-) Have some rampaging 'noids in the Cruth Mountains, and while Castellan and Duke's Road Keeps are being crushed, a great flotilla of Ierendian and Minrothaddan warships smash Karameikan ports. From the east, Thyatis marches to rightfully claim "Traladara" once again (at least the eastern chunk of it), while the Five Shires annexes the Achelos Woods region. Add to the mix a civil war, and we've got interesting times! :-) And we wouldn't even need the "recommissioned" Kastelian skyship Concordia...which is busy elsewhere - for purely defensive purposes of course (at least, that's what the Kastelian ambassador said, and he wouldn't lie). Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 05:27:49 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Question], CM1 In a message dated 1998-09-04 08:09:56 Eastern Daylight Time, chasnans@hotmail.com writes: > I think you're a lot to have the module CM1 : Test of the Warlords, and > i belong to these ... But after having read the all module, i don't > manage to set it in the time. When shall it be setted ? In AC 1000 ? > I'm currently reading "Dragon King" (i'm not sure English title is the > same), and i wonder if the module CM1 couldn't be setted at this tim (AC > 500) ? While you can certainly set any module at whatever time you wish, the main problem with moving CM1 is that it clearly references characters who were in power in AC 1000. Given a few references to the events of CM1 as being in the past, that module could be considered as taking place in the 990s, but not much earlier. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 13:03:31 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) On Fri, 4 Sep 1998, Rob wrote: > technomancy. Technomancy certainly is not going to be reinvented - or even > begin to be reinvented - in the PCs lifetimes. This is assuming, of course, > that the Immortals even permit such things to be practiced, given what > happened the last time... Well, considering there is a college in Davania devoted to the study of Technomancy that has been running under the same leadership for the past 1700 years, I figure that someone knows something. The problem with that college is that it really is only a legend to the outer world now that Alphatia is sunk, and really doesn't give a damn about the outer world at all. <- This is my DV project BTW :) > As the alchemist created stuff loses its potency after a while, that isnt > game breaking. Guns (even the snaplock muskets that Cimarron has IMC) are > not nearly as game breaking as gunpowder (the 50 charge bomb)... Yeah. In my Techno discussions, I talked about how Gunpowder does go bad after a short while, with the chance of becomeing explosive. > for good adventures. However, if it became anything but exceedingly rare it > would wreck the game. I dont fancy turning Mystara into Shadowrun either... Mystara never will be Shadowrun. In hopes of NOT causing undue knowledge of the secrets of Davania, The team only has 2 major points of technology/technomancy on the continent. The Xenophobic Alphatian Technomancy academy, and the Blackmoorian Military Bunker, where half the technology doesn't work well anyway. Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 18:40:07 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) >> technomancy. Technomancy certainly is not going to be reinvented - or even >> begin to be reinvented - in the PCs lifetimes. This is assuming, of course, >> that the Immortals even permit such things to be practiced, given what >> happened the last time... > >Well, considering there is a college in Davania devoted to the study of >Technomancy that has been running under the same leadership for the past >1700 years, I figure that someone knows something. Mmm. But the Immortals dont like the idea (after all, they were debating whether or not to keep some tech elves around in Hollow World or not, never let the outer world) so although they may allow its study they may well have limited it. Otherwise - 1700 years is almost double the length of time Blackmoor had to study, so even without Beagle components to look at there would be a Blackmoor double down there... Blackmoor was only a useless little zero kingdom with no particular expertise, and look where they got to in 1000 years... (I guess Karameikos has precedent :) Although perhaps being learned mages is a disadvantage - something about unlearning what u have learned... >The problem with that college is that it really is only a legend to the >outer world now that Alphatia is sunk, and really doesn't give a damn >about the outer world at all. <- This is my DV project BTW :) > >> As the alchemist created stuff loses its potency after a while, that isnt >> game breaking. Guns (even the snaplock muskets that Cimarron has IMC) are >> not nearly as game breaking as gunpowder (the 50 charge bomb)... > >Yeah. In my Techno discussions, I talked about how Gunpowder does go bad >after a short while, with the chance of becomeing explosive. I dont like the Rulz on smokepowder as they exist. d2 damage per charge may not seem like much, but one charge is supposed to be roughly a teaspoon, so even 50 charges is a fairly small keg. Which does 50-100 damage... It just does far too much damage! Why use cannons when u could use catapults to lob barrels of the stuff at the enemy? (petards, i believe they were called). Its a pity, because muskets and that sort of thing are very cool, as long as they are kept on the Savage Coast and not allowed to pollute the rest of the setting... (BTW - I hope i didnt sound too scathing in my previous, to coin a phrase, "ranting screed" - that certainly wasnt the intention, but looking back on it it did seem a little harsh. Sorry!) Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #599 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Sunday, September 6 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 600 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoorian Doc Browns Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoorian Doc Browns Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics and Magical items re:[MYSTARA] - Fantasy Empires [MYSTARA] - Homepage update Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics and Magical items Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) [MYSTARA] - Back :-) Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 12:55:35 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) > > Yeah. In my Techno discussions, I talked about how Gunpowder does go bad > after a short while, with the chance of becomeing explosive. > IIRC, and correct me if I'm wrong, but Gunpowder doesn't even *WORK* on Mystara in the first place. c.f. "Red Steel". > > In hopes of NOT causing undue knowledge of the secrets of Davania, The > team only has 2 major points of technology/technomancy on the continent. > The Xenophobic Alphatian Technomancy academy, and the Blackmoorian > Military Bunker, where half the technology doesn't work well anyway. > I think the whole idea is bad. But, barring that, I think the "best" way to do it at all would be to have scattered informal "sage-like" Technomancers, not established academies. Make it more of an (isolated, rare) craft, and less of a university/industry. Small scale, in other words, not formalized institutions. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 13:09:19 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) > > (BTW - I hope i didnt sound too scathing in my previous, to coin a phrase, > "ranting screed" - that certainly wasnt the intention, but looking back on > it it did seem a little harsh. Sorry!) > I donno. I'm not sure you can be too harsh about this idea. The more I think about it, the more I dislike it. IMO, leave Technomancy in the past. Let players Time Travel if they want to adventure in that environment. Keep Mystara free of the taint of Blackmoor's fell magics! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 14:15:18 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) On Sat, 5 Sep 1998, Rob wrote: > whether or not to keep some tech elves around in Hollow World or not, never > let the outer world) so although they may allow its study they may well have > limited it. The Immortals restrict PURE technology. Technomancy just makes broken technology work by making it a magic item. Also, the 2 headmasters of the Citadel have special "ins" with the Immortals. You'll all find out soon enough. > kingdom with no particular expertise, and look where they got to in 1000 > years... (I guess Karameikos has precedent :) > > Although perhaps being learned mages is a disadvantage - something about > unlearning what u have learned... Very true. Also, That's why i support the corruption idea. If Technology is corrupted, that forces those mages to take what they have learned and use it to try and understand what they have to get it to work again. > they were called). Its a pity, because muskets and that sort of thing are > very cool, as long as they are kept on the Savage Coast and not allowed to > pollute the rest of the setting... Darn right. Unearthed Arcana Screwed up AD&D 1 by introducing Gunpowder. It's just as well that Smoke Powder is stuck on the SC. > "ranting screed" - that certainly wasnt the intention, but looking back on > it it did seem a little harsh. Sorry!) No worries. I myself have been doing some rather harsh ranting on the DV group about this. That's one reason why I want the MML to help judge it. Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 14:25:15 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) On Sat, 5 Sep 1998, James Ruhland wrote: > I think the whole idea is bad. But, barring that, I think the "best" way > to do it at all would be to have scattered informal "sage-like" > Technomancers, not established academies. Make it more of an (isolated, > rare) craft, and less of a university/industry. Small scale, in other > words, not formalized institutions. Well it is an isolated/rare craft. There are only 6000 beings living at the college, and less than half of them are in the technomantic college. What sets the college apart is that it really isn't considered anything important, even when it had its ties with Alphatia. The Headmasters keep it low key. VERY low key. Not many people are aware of its existence, and those students there don't usually leave at all. They were born there, live there, teach there, and die there. Every so often they visit Serraine for extra training, but that's about it. As for an industry, well, who do you think makes "electric cookers" or "bard-in-the-boxes"? Those are the products of technomantic invention. In no way should it be thought that technomancers can rebuild Blackmoor, because they can't. Technomancers are really more like Human/Alphatian Gnomes, only with no meddling skill, and different design ideas. Read the book of Wonderous Inventions. Or Jules Verne. That's what technomancers do. They aren't world builders, they're crackpots and loonies hang out with gnomes, nagpa, sphixes et al, and have their own college in the remotest corner of Davania. Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 19:10:09 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) >2) Technology exists, but it is falling apart unless it is repaired. New >technology can be built. > >This is an almost acceptable solution. But it really gets in the way of >game balance. If technology is repairable without using magic, then it is >possible however unlikely that an inventive PC/NPC could theoretically >develop high technology, much like how Blackmoor reverse engineered the >Beagle. This could snowball into an undesirable game breaking situation. > In situations like this I'd make the players describe exactly how they are going about developing high tech. Since presumably, most players aren't nuclear physicists, it would be almost impossible for them to come up with working high tech. In general, I prefer technology to be fairly separate from magic. In other words, technology should be progressing realistically. Magic can influence it indirectly (e.g. in Alphatia, few incentives exist for developing tech since magic does most things). But I wouldn't like the idea that all tech is actually powered by magic and depends on it. One should also note that the really high tech is most likely many centuries away (or even millennia, since the existence of magic reduces the need to develop technology quickly). So it won't be a problem in most normal campaigns. ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Blue Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 20:00:13 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) >Well it is an isolated/rare craft. There are only 6000 beings living at >the college, and less than half of them are in the technomantic college. :( 3000 is a hell of a lot, in my book. I dont know - i remember the days when xD+D was a game with hedge wizards and stuff like that, and there probably wasnt 3000 mages on the entire planet... Assuming the Thyatian population of roughly 3 million, according to the PWAs, thats one technomancer per 1000 people. Now that is a lot. Every Legion (3000 guys) could field at least three of these guys, and thats just assuming the same "class density" as the the common population... >Read the book of Wonderous Inventions. Or Jules Verne. That's what >technomancers do. They aren't world builders, they're crackpots and >loonies hang out with gnomes, nagpa, sphixes et al, and have >their own college in the remotest corner of Davania. Thats cool. "You are now entering the Verne Zone..." But even in the Jules Verne stuff there is usually one guy who wants to fire people into outer space, on the planet. Not 3000 of them... How many mages are there in Glantri City? 1 in 7, apparently. So about 7000, give or take... I'm not rabidly opposed to technomancy at all, but that seems a Little Much. Even if 1 in 3 of these guys has a laser rifle thats a pretty power-shifting force available there... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 20:20:35 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) >>This is an almost acceptable solution. But it really gets in the way of >>game balance. If technology is repairable without using magic, then it is >>possible however unlikely that an inventive PC/NPC could theoretically >>develop high technology, much like how Blackmoor reverse engineered the >>Beagle. This could snowball into an undesirable game breaking situation. >> >In situations like this I'd make the players describe exactly how they are going about developing high tech. Since presumably, most players aren't nuclear physicists, it would be almost impossible for them to come up with working high tech. :) Given all the scientists who seem to play xD+D, i wouldnt be so sure... That being said, that is truly opening the door wide. Just about everyone knows roughly how a combustion engine works. I for one know, or at least have a vague idea about, how to make dynamite, a machine gun, rifles, aeroplanes... OK - maybe not lasers or the Starship Enterprise, but 20th century knowledge alone is game breaking enough... >In general, I prefer technology to be fairly separate from magic. In other words, technology should be progressing realistically. Magic can influence it indirectly (e.g. in Alphatia, few incentives exist for developing tech since magic does most things). But I wouldn't like the idea that all tech is actually powered by magic and depends on it. One should also note that the really high tech is most likely many centuries away (or even millennia, since the existence of magic reduces the need to develop technology quickly). So it won't be a problem in most normal campaigns. Chronomancer has some interesting stuff on this subject. I think a Mage:the Ascension idea is quite likely - magic is ultimately a tool for the rich and powerful (ie the rulers and adventurers), whereas technology is for the masses. The Powers that Be would try to keep technology well under control, and probably not imply that it was any different from magic. Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 15:40:02 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Hmmmn. . .lookie what just got here. Guess I ought to respond. . . > > Well it is an isolated/rare craft. There are only 6000 beings living at > the college, and less than half of them are in the technomantic college. > *keels over in a dead faint* *wakes up hours later, gibbering, slobbering* 6000!!!! That's a hell of a lot! I was thinking more on the order of a dozen scattered "sage-like" folk. 6,000 is almost industrial! Hell with almost: 3,000 at the college and 3,000 "support" personel *IS* industrial. Hell, I don't know any midieval college (and probably no renaissance college) that had such a staff! *appalled look* > > Read the book of Wonderous Inventions. Or Jules Verne. That's what > technomancers do. They aren't world builders, they're crackpots and > loonies hang out with gnomes, nagpa, sphixes et al, and have > their own college in the remotest corner of Davania. > They shouldn't be organized into two major institutions. If they are crackpots and loonies they should live on the fringes of society (a la Doc Brown), not have their own RAND corporation. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 15:45:44 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) > > 3000 is a hell of a lot, in my book. I dont know - i remember the days when > xD+D was a game with hedge wizards and stuff like that, and there probably > wasnt 3000 mages on the entire planet... > Yah, jeeze. I mean, not nessissarily about the 3,000 on the entire planet (though possible), but hell, "generally" even normal mages (much less Technomages) were schooled by an individual Wizard on an "aprentice" basis. The Glantrian "magical college" was unique and special just because it existed at all! DotE, well, you can see why the Empires (especially Alphatia) would have some "colleges" of the arcane. But now everyone and their ape (thinking here of Karameikos) has a college that "rivals" (per the NA) Glantri's college of magic, and humongous Technomagical academies pop up in the most unexpected locations. Obviously this institution was created to carry on Technomagical events on a military scale. That's not small potatos (or, "potatoes" if you prefer). That 'noid invasion is looking better and better. Time to shake things up. Things are getting to civilized, stabilized, and modernized. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 16:02:15 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) > college of magic, and humongous Technomagical academies pop up in the most > unexpected locations. > Staffed by folks who are "close personal friends" of several dozen Immortals, too, if I read one post correctly. People will probably now say I'm overreacting, but just you wait: these guys will probably end up fielding, and/or destroying, whole armies. "small scale"? I'm betting not. "String 'em all up, I say: its the only thing they understand". --- Belfast Cabbie, Tir Tairngire. 'Noid Invasion now imperitive in Davania. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 22:06:11 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) >> Well it is an isolated/rare craft. There are only 6000 beings living at >> the college, and less than half of them are in the technomantic college. >> >*keels over in a dead faint* > >*wakes up hours later, gibbering, slobbering* > >6000!!!! That's a hell of a lot! wow! Almost a direct quote (except i managed to restrain the gibbering and slobbering :) :) :) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 22:08:34 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) >They shouldn't be organized into two major institutions. If they are >crackpots and loonies they should live on the fringes of society (a la Doc >Brown), not have their own RAND corporation. Speaking of Doc Brown, IMC there is a Blackmoorian chronomancer who uses a modified Blackmoorian ATV (all terrain vehicle) to accelerate his speed of time travel... He's cool :) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 16:47:20 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoorian Doc Browns > Speaking of Doc Brown, IMC there is a Blackmoorian chronomancer who uses a > modified Blackmoorian ATV (all terrain vehicle) to accelerate his speed of > time travel... > And here I thought Khoronus was Doc Brown, with his early (bulky) time machine followed by a smaller artifact one. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 23:16:13 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoorian Doc Browns >> Speaking of Doc Brown, IMC there is a Blackmoorian chronomancer who uses >a >> modified Blackmoorian ATV (all terrain vehicle) to accelerate his speed >of >> time travel... >> >And here I thought Khoronus was Doc Brown, with his early (bulky) time >machine followed by a smaller artifact one. Yeah, but Khoronus is an Immortal now. This guy was called Astafas (he was actually called Albert, but he figured that a name like simply wouldnt do in more barbaric times), and he said that he invented the time machine... I figured that possibly this was Khoronus before he became an Immortal, while still in his adventuring days - but as it wasnt necessary i didnt decide either way. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 20:13:01 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics and Magical items > Another quick rules problem. IYC, what kind of magical items can clerics > manufacture? I mean, potions, staffs, armours (?), weapons (??)... And how > did they actually manage to create them? how do they enchant them, what's > the process used? > > On a similar note, do you give clerics the permission to create new spells? > Do you think it's reasonable? > > DM The RC says that clerics enchant magical items the same way like magic-users. The only difference is that in the formula for the success the INT is replaced by WIS. But not, I don't think that it is reassonable to permit clerics new spells. But I don't think that this is reasonable for magic-users neither. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 21:31:33 EDT From: RISPEN@aol.com Subject: re:[MYSTARA] - Fantasy Empires If you keep your eyes open you can find this (as well as most of the other TSR / SSI game) redone on CD ROMs out for resale. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 15:20:31 +1000 From: stan Subject: [MYSTARA] - Homepage update Just a quick message to say that my homepage has been updated, yet again. Also - there's a new option if you wanted to be emailed whenever the page is updated. I'm not being pretentious, someone suggested it. stan http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 22:42:49 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics and Magical items I recall "The Tainted Sword", the first Mystara novel. The sword in question, Wyrmblight, was imbued with it's holy powers after a blessing from not only the priest, but from all of the local people. This made sense, given that Flinn was a defender of the people, and so in some way, he drew his power from them. The teller of the story explicitly said that no spells were cast on it (ie, wizards), but in game terms, it would have been enchanted clerically. Incidentally, either Flinn wasn't as high level as one might assume, given his deeds, or his was rather unwise (he seemed as least normal) because he wasn't a paladin, even though he had the usual holier-than-thou attitude and was overly obsessed with honour :). I think that the monsters should have been the Carnivex rather than abelaats, giving the story a more Lovecraftian feel. "In the beginning, there was darkness, but before there was darkness, there was Frog." - St. Stephen ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 23:05:35 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) >3) Technology exists, is falling apart, but can't be repaired or built >without magic (technomancy). > >This solution says that technology can exist, but if it breaks or runs >out of charges, only magic can fix it. This solution is very steady-state. >All the Blackmoor technology left is what is left, since no new technology >can be built on Mystara because of magical interference by the Nucleus of >the Spheres. >4) Technology exists, can be built, but is corrupted by the existence of >the NoS. Only Technomancy can make technology function normally. Once again the vile abomination mockly called "technomancy" rears its head. Combining the pure Ars Mundana with the foul pestilence of magic is an even more henious heresy than magic alone. Know this, Citadel: The Oard will not tolerate such a perversion of reality. Your stain will be proactively blotted from the temporal stream. Where the NoS to corrupt pure tech, Oard scheming would be for naught, as Temporal Agents would slowly find their very existance rotted to nothing. Of course, in FixedTime (Oardspeak for their timeline), the NoS does not exist per se. Were tech to corrupt without technomantic modifications, it seems as though that would really mess up non-Blackmoor tech on Mystara; that is, pure tech (assuming that most Blackmoorian technology was, in fact, technomancy), which would include: oards (no longer very threatening now that they fall apart at the seams), Beagle tech (that was not converted a la NoS), meks, adaptors (who were tantilizingly under-explained), planar spiders (who I guess would just leave Mystara), et c.. And where do you draw the line? An internal combustion engine runs under the same laws of physics as a catapult. I almost have my history of the future ready. As soon as I get a moment off of work, I'll get it together and send it to the Writers Guild for a critque. I hope I have created a unique view of the Oard, as well as my theories on the Sphere of Time. I mean to have an inclusive view of Oard, and don't want to tread on anyone's beliefs. If you send me your interpretations (to my email, not the list), I'll put them in in a alternative theories section with credit. I'd also like to have a few adventures, as all good gazeteers should. "One empire, one race, one time." - Qartanaq ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 01:20:19 -0500 (CDT) From: Valerya@webtv.net (Jennifer Favia Guerra) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Back :-) Hi there everyone :-) I just wanted to announce that I am back on the list after nearly one year (finally got an address that I can check often!). There seem to have been a lot of changes--what is up with the workgroups, and could someone tell me what they're working on (besides Blackmoor:)? Also, my web page is up--please visit, and SIGN THE GUESTBOOK: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ Thanks, Jenn *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 18:53:43 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project On Fri, 4 Sep 1998, Jennifer Favia Guerra wrote: > In response to morphail's message: > > Yes, i must say that I agree with you about changing Valerias to > energy--great idea! I think that it's important not to get so caght up > in "canon" versus "non-canon" that you cease to have fun, and the > campaign world stops making sense to you personally because it's just > not believeable to you. So, yeah, great idea--mind if I steal it? :-) > As for the "girder-on of weapons" thing, its just that Valerias is also > the patron of duelists (again, the passion aspect over the "Hestia" > aspect). It's something that has been bothering me for a while too. She doesn't really seem to belong with Matter. Thought could be an option aswell... Btw, who should be the housewife-goddess then? Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Ah Gandhi! What a Mensch. And he looked good in a robe too!" -Douglas Wambaugh, Picket Fences. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 19:13:58 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) On Fri, 4 Sep 1998, SteelAngel wrote: > The davania group has been in the midst of a major discussion on the > subject of the remaining Blackmoorian Technology on Mystara. > Blackmoorian technology is defined as any high-technology item, robots, > lasers, energy shields, gunpowder, etc. > In short, there are a few solutions that we have come up with. > 1) Technology doesn't exist on Mystara. Period. The relics left are all > broken/unservicable. I agree that this is a bad idea and it, as you mention, is contradictory to Gazetteer information, it should be discarded. > 2) Technology exists, but it is falling apart unless it is repaired. New > technology can be built. > This is an almost acceptable solution. But it really gets in the way of > game balance. If technology is repairable without using magic, then it is > possible however unlikely that an inventive PC/NPC could theoretically > develop high technology, much like how Blackmoor reverse engineered the > Beagle. This could snowball into an undesirable game breaking situation. I go for this one. Game balance is highly overrated. It is very unlikely that a PC will develope high technology based on studying Blackmoor artifacts in his lifetime. If he even understands how to operate the artifact, it would probably take many generations before one would have any idea about how to operate the item. Even if this should happen, reversed engineering is a difficult process and being on a lower level of technology, the students of the artifact would probably never accomplish this. It strikes be that we are not talking about game balance, but about events that may change Mystara. I am very much in favour of having Mystara change over time. Anything else is hardly realistic. However, finding a couple of artifact wont do much harm IMO. > 3) Technology exists, is falling apart, but can't be repaired or built > without magic (technomancy). > This solution says that technology can exist, but if it breaks or runs > out of charges, only magic can fix it. This solution is very steady-state. > All the Blackmoor technology left is what is left, since no new technology > can be built on Mystara because of magical interference by the Nucleus of > the Spheres. This can work. I dont like the idea that the NoS has changed more than stated in the books though. (see below.) > 4) Technology exists, can be built, but is corrupted by the existence of > the NoS. Only Technomancy can make technology function normally. > I prefer the last case, and its in agreement with canon and game balance, > since pure technology is restricted, and magic makes technology more bulky > and less efficient, thus making those items more D&D friendly. I dont really see why you would want this. Even if a small group in Davania (Read: Far away) should be able to reproduce a laserweapon, does this really do any harm? It could even be fun. Limiting factors. Who is going to teach you to operate this thing? Youre not likely to find a Grand Master of Laser pisols. Maybe this is a Sacred artifact created by the Immortals? We should leave it alone. > Any thoughts? TSR has never been really solid on high tech. an MML > consensus would help us all out. I agree. And the attempt of bringing Star Trek philosphy into it makes me want to hide under my bed or something.. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Ah Gandhi! What a Mensch. And he looked good in a robe too!" -Douglas Wambaugh, Picket Fences. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #600 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Sunday, September 6 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 601 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics and Magical items Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics and Magical items Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Back :-) Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics and Magical items Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 19:36:34 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics and Magical items On Sat, 5 Sep 1998, Jamuga Khan wrote: > But not, I don't think that it is reassonable to permit clerics new spells. > But I don't think that this is reasonable for magic-users neither. Why not? Because of game balance or because it doesn't sound logical that someone who knows magic can expand his knowledge in new ways, unknown to the society he lives in? Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Ah Gandhi! What a Mensch. And he looked good in a robe too!" -Douglas Wambaugh, Picket Fences. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 19:43:27 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) On Sat, 5 Sep 1998, SteelAngel wrote: > On Fri, 4 Sep 1998, Rob wrote: > Well, considering there is a college in Davania devoted to the study of > Technomancy that has been running under the same leadership for the past > 1700 years, I figure that someone knows something. > The problem with that college is that it really is only a legend to the > outer world now that Alphatia is sunk, and really doesn't give a damn > about the outer world at all. <- This is my DV project BTW :) After 1700 years, they should probably have been able to work out something. How much is really up to you. I'd suggest that they have started to develope technomancy spells and are able to operate some of the artifacts and maybe maintain them. Repairing old ones would require parts the college doesn't have and would be near impossible. As you say they dont give a damn about the world. They are mages after all. Mages don't share power. Sharing power is stupid because someone might use that power against you. > Mystara never will be Shadowrun. Why not? IMO Mystara will never be Shadowrun because Mystara will always be Mystara. That doesn't mean that if I send my heroes to AC 2020 they won't find orcs and elves wielding submachineguns. Stealing a bit from Shadowrun could be alot of fun. > In hopes of NOT causing undue knowledge of the secrets of Davania, The > team only has 2 major points of technology/technomancy on the continent. > The Xenophobic Alphatian Technomancy academy, and the Blackmoorian > Military Bunker, where half the technology doesn't work well anyway. Thesed guys remind me of the Foundation... :) Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Ah Gandhi! What a Mensch. And he looked good in a robe too!" -Douglas Wambaugh, Picket Fences. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 19:48:30 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) On Sat, 5 Sep 1998, Rob wrote: > Mmm. But the Immortals dont like the idea (after all, they were debating > whether or not to keep some tech elves around in Hollow World or not, never > let the outer world) so although they may allow its study they may well have > limited it. They may be less interested in interferring with Mystara now after WotI. As for why they haven't interferred yet..maybe Thanatos has concealed the citadel.... > Otherwise - 1700 years is almost double the length of time Blackmoor had to > study, so even without Beagle components to look at there would be a > Blackmoor double down there... Blackmoor was only a useless little zero > kingdom with no particular expertise, and look where they got to in 1000 > years... (I guess Karameikos has precedent :) But Blackmoor did have fully functioning artifacts available. Then again, maybe they were just plain lucky... > I dont like the Rulz on smokepowder as they exist. d2 damage per charge may > not seem like much, but one charge is supposed to be roughly a teaspoon, so > even 50 charges is a fairly small keg. Which does 50-100 damage... > > It just does far too much damage! Why use cannons when u could use > catapults to lob barrels of the stuff at the enemy? (petards, i believe > they were called). Its a pity, because muskets and that sort of thing are > very cool, as long as they are kept on the Savage Coast and not allowed to > pollute the rest of the setting... Actually, I was thinking about maybe using Bruces version replacing guns with crossbows... Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Ah Gandhi! What a Mensch. And he looked good in a robe too!" -Douglas Wambaugh, Picket Fences. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 19:52:17 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) On Sat, 5 Sep 1998, James Ruhland wrote: > > > > > Yeah. In my Techno discussions, I talked about how Gunpowder does go bad > > after a short while, with the chance of becomeing explosive. > > > IIRC, and correct me if I'm wrong, but Gunpowder doesn't even *WORK* on > Mystara in the first place. c.f. "Red Steel". Youre wrong! (I think ;) Smokepowder is a magical item. Gunpowder just hasn't been invented yet. Bruce Heard wrote a Dragon article about introducing Gunpowder into the Known World. It has never been very popular on the MML because the introduction of Gunpowder might change the setting too much, but I like to think that gunpowder will be invented some day.. > I think the whole idea is bad. But, barring that, I think the "best" way > to do it at all would be to have scattered informal "sage-like" > Technomancers, not established academies. Make it more of an (isolated, > rare) craft, and less of a university/industry. Small scale, in other > words, not formalized institutions. Reducing it in scale might be a good idea, but I generally like this stuff.. :) Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Ah Gandhi! What a Mensch. And he looked good in a robe too!" -Douglas Wambaugh, Picket Fences. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 19:55:10 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) On Sat, 5 Sep 1998, SteelAngel wrote: > Read the book of Wonderous Inventions. Or Jules Verne. That's what > technomancers do. They aren't world builders, they're crackpots and > loonies hang out with gnomes, nagpa, sphixes et al, and have > their own college in the remotest corner of Davania. Worst product Bruce Heard ever wrote. (Sorry Bruce :) Anyway, maybe inviting some gnomes might pull of the technomagic project. Maybe that was Garal Glitterlode's idea in the first place...(However you spell his name). Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Ah Gandhi! What a Mensch. And he looked good in a robe too!" -Douglas Wambaugh, Picket Fences. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 19:58:34 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) On Fri, 4 Sep 1998, Aleksei Andrievski wrote: > In general, I prefer technology to be fairly separate from magic. In > other words, technology should be progressing realistically. Magic can > influence it indirectly (e.g. in Alphatia, few incentives exist for > developing tech since magic does most things). But I wouldn't like the > idea that all tech is actually powered by magic and depends on it. One > should also note that the really high tech is most likely many > centuries away (or even millennia, since the existence of magic > reduces the need to develop technology quickly). So it won't be a > problem in most normal campaigns. I like the theory that at a very advanced level it is impossible to distinguish technology from magic. In the Mystaros Epic Mystara Timeline, there are some interesting theories about this. But generally I think that technology should work in the same ways as in our world. Magic can work in many ways though... Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Ah Gandhi! What a Mensch. And he looked good in a robe too!" -Douglas Wambaugh, Picket Fences. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 20:01:34 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) On Sat, 5 Sep 1998, James Ruhland wrote: > People will probably now say I'm overreacting, but just you wait: these > guys will probably end up fielding, and/or destroying, whole armies. Nothing you average mage can't do... Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Ah Gandhi! What a Mensch. And he looked good in a robe too!" -Douglas Wambaugh, Picket Fences. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 20:04:33 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics and Magical items On Sat, 5 Sep 1998, Nicholas Hudson wrote: > I recall "The Tainted Sword", the first Mystara novel. The sword in > question, Wyrmblight, was imbued with it's holy powers after a blessing > from not only the priest, but from all of the local people. This made > sense, given that Flinn was a defender of the people, and so in some > way, he drew his power from them. The teller of the story explicitly > said that no spells were cast on it (ie, wizards), but in game terms, it > would have been enchanted clerically. Incidentally, either Flinn wasn't > as high level as one might assume, given his deeds, or his was rather > unwise (he seemed as least normal) because he wasn't a paladin, even > though he had the usual holier-than-thou attitude and was overly > obsessed with honour :). I think that items can gain magical properties in many ways. But making up rules for such unique cases isn't really necceasary IMO.. > I think that the monsters should have been the Carnivex rather than > abelaats, giving the story a more Lovecraftian feel. Now that is a Cool idea! I'd say it would give the story a more Mystaran feel. And I really hated that stuff about Mystaras magic being stolen from another world. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Ah Gandhi! What a Mensch. And he looked good in a robe too!" -Douglas Wambaugh, Picket Fences. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 13:41:22 -0500 (CDT) From: Valerya@webtv.net (Jennifer Favia Guerra) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project Who should be the "housewife-goddess"? According to WOTI, Patura (Initiate, Sphere of Energy) is "a patron of downtrodden women everywhere." It also cross-references to IM2 as "Hera." This is a distinct possibility. I also suggest, if you are not into Thyatian-type Immortals but rather want one attuned to another culture, that any parton of a people (such as Ilsundal for elves, etc.) could do double duty as a patron of the household of those people. Remember that in Greece, Athene was not only the patron of war but also of Athens and its citizens. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 13:40:56 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) > > The Xenophobic Alphatian Technomancy academy, > This is a minor thing that bugs me about the whole thing; to be blunt a kind of intellectual lazyness. "Where there is magic, there must be Alphatians." IMO, IF you're bound and determined to have a Davanian "Technomancy Academy", it should be *unique*, have the character of a *Davanian* institution, not borrow from another realm/setting. To me this is a minor quibble, and I'll probably be shot full of holes because it is me making the comment. But I still think the point is valid. Design something rather unique, something that makes it distinctively Davanian. Or why set it in Davania at all? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 13:51:07 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) > > But Blackmoor did have fully functioning artifacts available. Then again, > maybe they were just plain lucky... > Yes, but IIRC, the Immortals made some changes to insure that the whole Blackmoor thing wouldn't happen again. Of course, from what I gather, the "plan" is to have the senior Technomages be "close personal friends" of all the ranking Immortals, so that they can skirt these safeguards. > Youre wrong! (I think ;) > Smokepowder is a magical item. Gunpowder just hasn't been invented yet. > Bruce Heard wrote a Dragon article about introducing Gunpowder into the > Known World. > I still think I'm right and you're wrong. Point is introducing it is unpopular for a reason. > > Reducing it in scale might be a good idea, but I generally like this > stuff.. :) > Thats why I grudgingly accept a reduced scale: some folks will like it, so having it form a part of the world is ok. OTOH, having a Technomancy institution equivilent to the RAND Corporation, MIT, or Aztechnology, well. . . . .I'm dubious at best. > > People will probably now say I'm overreacting, but just you wait: these > > guys will probably end up fielding, and/or destroying, whole armies. > > Nothing you average mage can't do... > Both right and wrong. Even where right, this is a fantasy game. IMO, if you want tech, you should find it elsewhere. Putting it into your own campaign is also one thing, but putting it into the NA is a whole 'nother thing. I'm sounding like Alex here, but he convinced me things should be taken kinda slow. So I'm on (provisional) good behavior. If rampant monty-haul technology (and/or artifacts etc) get introduced, well, folks aren't showing much restraint. Don't get me wrong, I can (and have, and will) power-game with the rest of 'em. But. . . . And your average mage *can't* destroy whole armies. Your average mage can have quite an impact on a battle, but they can't defeat (by themselves) a invasion by the Heldannic Knights, for example. That hasn't happened anyplace else in canon. . . . . I'm watching to see what happens. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 08:16:01 +1000 From: stan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Back :-) >I just wanted to announce that I am back on the list after nearly one >year (finally got an address that I can check often!). There seem to >have been a lot of changes--what is up with the workgroups, and could >someone tell me what they're working on (besides Blackmoor:)? > Also, my web page is up--please visit, and SIGN THE GUESTBOOK: >http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ Welcome back Valerya, it's good to have you back again. BTW love your homepage. But to answer your question about what people are working on. Geoff Gander has compiled a pretty comprehensive list of what people are up to at the moment. I won't repost it here but here's a link to the file on my homepage http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/mystproj.html stan http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 15:26:56 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics and Magical items >> I think that the monsters should have been the Carnivex rather than20 >> abelaats, giving the story a more Lovecraftian feel. > >Now that is a Cool idea! I'd say it would give the story a more Mystaran >feel. And I really hated that stuff about Mystaras magic being stolen from another world. Hmmm... The NoS steals magic from Mystara, Mystara steals magic from AbelaatLand... That's a long and complex process, with undoubtably a large amount of waste. Vast amounts of magic energy are probably being dropped all over the multiverse, which could explain all of these magically created creatures of world destroying power which have a nasty tendancy of popping up. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 15:51:20 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) >> Mystara never will be Shadowrun. > >Why not? > >IMO Mystara will never be Shadowrun because Mystara will always be >Mystara. That doesn't mean that if I send my heroes to AC 2020 they won't find orcs and elves wielding submachineguns. Stealing a bit from Shadowrun could be alot of fun. I read an response in the "Forum" section of Dragon a while back that addressed the "orc decker with a BIG gun" theory of future, and it's always been something I felt as well. Simply put, were you to travel to Mystara's future, you would not find advanced technology. You would find advanced magic. The inhabitants of Mystara have no reason to devote research to a discipline that remains virtually unchanged since pre-Beagle days, and is a mere speck to magic's boulder. The orc of 2020 wouldn't have a sub-machinegun; he would have a rod of meteor swarm, extended charge clip included (for a limited time only). As far as I can tell, the most advanced pure tech device on Mystara is the trebuchet, and it would appear that knowledge of the trebuchet has existed on Mystara for several millenia at least. You wouldn't find this situation on all, or even most fantasy worlds. Mystara is rare in that magic is fairly common (how many magocracies are there now?). On Krynn, for example, once the gods left, that's a whole half of magic (clerical)that no longer exists. You could expect that Dragonlance would start to implement some pure tech. Or Athas: as the use of magic visibly drains life from the world, and ultimately the sun, magic is a very finite resouce. Of course, technological development would also be limited as there are no natural resources in Dark Sun. I imagine that some technological development could occur in places on Mystara where magic does not exist. The problem with that is that such places are generally countries where magic is outlawed, such as Navarez, and the climate found in such countries is generally inhospitable to any new development. My best bet for pure tech is Ylarum. Magic is outlawed, and the RW Arabs of the Middle Ages were the most developed and enlightened nation on Earth. Of course, the Oard might just be available to speed things up. :) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 16:00:11 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) >But Blackmoor did have fully functioning artifacts available. Then again, maybe they were just plain lucky... Blackmoor made Beagle tech a national priority: every mage, sage, and philosopher within the country (and then some) was called into service to research this strange new magic. Furthermore, Blackmoor had some inside information: WoTI mentions some diplomat guy on the Beagle who starting selling the technology. Sure, he wasn't a scientist, but he could at least tell them how to turn it on without breaking it (until this point, no progress was made because the Blackmoor wizards didn't know how to fix the flashing "12:00" on the displays). Uther would most likely have made some alliances with the Sand People, who has some rudimentary knowledge. Finally, there is the Order of the Frog. I don't know how much information would be available from the ruined temple after DA2, and since the Froggies were brainwashed, I don't think they would talk (and if they did, it would be in mystical pseudo-theological terms), but maybe something would come out of it. "In the Beginning, there was darkness, but before there was darkness, there was Frog." - St. Stephen ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 00:25:01 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) >> > People will probably now say I'm overreacting, but just you wait: >these >> > guys will probably end up fielding, and/or destroying, whole armies. >> >> Nothing you average mage can't do... >> > Both right and wrong. Even where right, this is a fantasy game. IMO, if >you want tech, you should find it elsewhere. Putting it into your own >campaign is also one thing, but putting it into the NA is a whole 'nother >thing. I'm sounding like Alex here, but he convinced me things should be >taken kinda slow. So I'm on (provisional) good behavior. If rampant >monty-haul technology (and/or artifacts etc) get introduced, well, folks >aren't showing much restraint. Don't get me wrong, I can (and have, and >will) power-game with the rest of 'em. But. . . . well, though i agree with the above about this is fantasy, the big difference between tech and magic is that tech can be used by the common man. While magic seems to be a thing u are born with. This fact means that tech would have a radical effect where introduced. > And your average mage *can't* destroy whole armies. Your average mage can >have quite an impact on a battle, but they can't defeat (by themselves) a >invasion by the Heldannic Knights, for example. That hasn't happened >anyplace else in canon. . . . . > I'm watching to see what happens. :) Hmm. Give me a Glantrian Prince and i will move the world :) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 00:26:21 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) > In hopes of NOT causing undue knowledge of the secrets of Davania, The > team only has 2 major points of technology/technomancy on the continent. > The Xenophobic Alphatian Technomancy academy, and the Blackmoorian > Military Bunker, where half the technology doesn't work well anyway. Thesed guys remind me of the Foundation... :) I always thought the Empire was far cooler :) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 00:28:44 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) > Mmm. But the Immortals dont like the idea (after all, they were debating > whether or not to keep some tech elves around in Hollow World or not, never > let the outer world) so although they may allow its study they may well have > limited it. >They may be less interested in interferring with Mystara now after WotI. >As for why they haven't interferred yet..maybe Thanatos has concealed the >citadel.... Well, i imagine the interference would be a spell affecting the outer world, much like the Spell of Preservation, that prevents technological advancement. > Otherwise - 1700 years is almost double the length of time Blackmoor had to > study, so even without Beagle components to look at there would be a > Blackmoor double down there... Blackmoor was only a useless little zero > kingdom with no particular expertise, and look where they got to in 1000 > years... (I guess Karameikos has precedent :) >But Blackmoor did have fully functioning artifacts available. Then again, >maybe they were just plain lucky... Well, there are fully functional artifacts available now. Jaggars laser seems identical to the stuff St Stephen was toting in Temple of the Frog... ie original Beagle tech... Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 22:34:45 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) On Sat, 5 Sep 1998, James Ruhland wrote: > IMO, leave Technomancy in the past. Let players Time Travel if they want > to adventure in that environment. Keep Mystara free of the taint of > Blackmoor's fell magics! Technomancy isn't a past thing. Technology is. I dunno what exactly people are thinking of, but I'm not saying that we should allow mages to build nuclear weapons here. Rafiel was a scientist, reverse engineering the Beagle's equipment, AFAIK, and he wasn't using magic. Mystaran Technomancy is not like Rifts technomancy or Shadowrun, or Cyberpunk. It's VERY Verne-ish. Read the Book Of Wonderous Inventions. Look at Jaggar's (or that guy from the almanac's) Gargantoid. Or what about silly trinkets that look modern but don't work too well. The Time Machine, Rocket to the Moon, Off on a Comet.. Edison meets Da Vinci. Or in short, Human Mages who want to be as cool as Gnomes, but make contraptions with flair not cogs. Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 22:52:52 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) On Sat, 5 Sep 1998, Rob wrote: > PWAs, thats one technomancer per 1000 people. Now that is a lot. Every > Legion (3000 guys) could field at least three of these guys, and thats just > assuming the same "class density" as the the common population... There are roughly 170 full technomancers on Mystara. And barring a few that live on Serraine, or some odd crackpots, like Ferdynand Lillipot in Glantri, or Edison of Glantri, they all live at the Citadel. The rest of the population are practicing Technomancers in the 4 "grades" of the school. Think of a technomancer as say the product of 12 years of grade school, 4 years of college, 7 years pre-doctoral work, 12 years post doc in Extremely high end Planetary Astrophysics. Not everyone is going to make it through, so they stay as regular 5-6th level wizards, or go to the College of Davainian History, or leave, or whatever. And those that do make it are usually a little touched in the head to begin with. I based the entire Citadel on my Physics department at my College (WPI) We have a group of Undergrads, Grad students and Professors who are quirky, odd, and really fun, but totally dedicated totheir work, with little regard to things like appearance, or style. Now picture an entire college of Technomages and students like that. A little chaotic, eh? In other words, completely NOT game breaking. They are like the Honor island mages of Irendi, except that they actually DO something except worship the fire gods. > I'm not rabidly opposed to technomancy at all, but that seems a Little Much. > Even if 1 in 3 of these guys has a laser rifle thats a pretty power-shifting > force available there... Laser rifle? who said anything about that? These mages don't exactly work to design weapon-like things. What's the point of that? Where is the pure research in that? But for those of you who really are worried about what technomancy would do to your campaigns: A Technomantic laser rifle looks for all intents and purposes like Kirk's rifle in the Classic ST episode "Where no man has gone before" Bulky, hard to aim, and a mess of wires and parts that look like they shouldn't work. And it works about as effectively as any wand of lightning bolts, but harder to make, much more expensive, and nearly impossible to repair by anyone else but the maker. Recharging is easy though, just pop in a battery, and pray. Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #601 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, September 7 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 602 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Problems with Skills Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Problems with Skills [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Bummer! :( Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Nos Re: [MYSTARA] - Terrorists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 23:03:36 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) On Sat, 5 Sep 1998, James Ruhland wrote: > 6,000 is almost industrial! Hell with almost: 3,000 at the college and > 3,000 "support" personel *IS* industrial. Support personell? I really should send out the citadel document to the list. You're being exceptionally reactionary to this wonderful idea. > Hell, I don't know any midieval college (and probably no renaissance > college) that had such a staff! Pshaw. Medieval/renaissance is for Brun. Davania is the land of opportunity :) > They shouldn't be organized into two major institutions. If they are > crackpots and loonies they should live on the fringes of society (a la Doc > Brown), not have their own RAND corporation. Who ever said they work together? It's a college! Have you ever been to a research college? Professors don't go out and make major machines to change society, they sit in their labs all day and work. Teach sometimes. Then more work. The citadel has been in existance for over 1500 years. That's almost as long as Alphatia. The College like humdrum IS their society. They don't HAVE ambition to be world builders. The REALLY could care less. If I thought that these guys would have a corporation, or some sort of Mass-production line, I wouldn't have even created it for the DV team. I know the laws of RPG world building. I know that certain elements instituted in a game world can kill it. And that's for damn why I made sure that the Citadel was so closed-in, so insular, so research oriented, that even if a PC broke in and stole a piece of equipment, he'd be hunted down by every technomancer in the world until that piece was back. Nothing leaves that city unless it is let go. And plus, what exactly would a PC do with a technomantic device? He'd probably try to use it. And it'd probably explode or burn out because he didn't use it right. Stop being so Brun-centric, people. There is a lot more on Mystara than just the silly Known World empires. Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 23:05:08 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Jim and others, Sorry that last message was a bit harsh, but I needed to impress a point. Don't for a minute think that your input is not valid, because it is very important to the sucess of a lot of what the DV team is working on. Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 23:07:33 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) On Sat, 5 Sep 1998, James Ruhland wrote: > college of magic, and humongous Technomagical academies pop up in the most > unexpected locations. Well, if the Diamond Ring mountain range is unexpected :) > Obviously this institution was created to carry on Technomagical events on > a military scale. That's not small potatos (or, "potatoes" if you prefer). Dangit.. you figured me out :P I was a pawn in Thanatos' evil plots to control the destiny of Mystara. :D Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 23:12:12 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) On Sat, 5 Sep 1998, James Ruhland wrote: > Staffed by folks who are "close personal friends" of several dozen > Immortals, too, if I read one post correctly. Yep. Their particular curse renders them completely unable to acheive Immortality, so their sponsors remain in contact with them, and try to help them as much as possible remove that curse so they can actually use those manifestation forms waiting for them. > guys will probably end up fielding, and/or destroying, whole armies. Well, if some big army, like the heldanners attack, I'm pulling a deus ex machina and making damn sure that it doesn't fall into the wrong hands. But these boys are surrounded by the Divergans (sorta) and the Ice Gmones (sorta) So the armies would have to get through them too. Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 23:20:02 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) On Sat, 5 Sep 1998, Nicholas Hudson wrote: > is, pure tech (assuming that most Blackmoorian technology was, in fact, > technomancy), which would include: oards (no longer very threatening now Nope. The NoS had not been created until after the GRoF, so Blackmoorian tech is to be considered pure technology for all intents and purposes. > a la NoS), meks, adaptors (who were tantilizingly under-explained), Meks are technomagic. They were made by wizards. > do you draw the line? An internal combustion engine runs under the same > laws of physics as a catapult. Ah ha! That is what causes problems you see. I invoke DM's powers by saying that a catapult uses Newtonian Physics, as does a IC engine. (and you will notice that IC engines are not prohibited, look at the Honor Island fireships! But a computer is run by Maxwells laws, and thus, since on Mystara Del X B != 0 They don't work according to our laws of physics. OR in other words. The *DM* decides what is and is not High Technology, and the *DM* decides what works and what shouldn't/doesn't. > I almost have my history of the future ready. As soon as I get a erk. That kind of limits things a bit, eh? Plus, if you really want to play with time, Blackmoor never ended, so there :D Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 23:26:52 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) On Sun, 6 Sep 1998, [iso-8859-1] Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: > operate the item. Even if this should happen, reversed engineering is a > difficult process and being on a lower level of technology, the students > of the artifact would probably never accomplish this. Erk. That's why I put forth the last point. I designed the college to be in existence for over 1500 years with NO sucess in reproducing technology. > over time. Anything else is hardly realistic. However, finding a couple of > artifact wont do much harm IMO. A little bit more than a few. We have a whole military bunker filled with killer robots down here. > I dont really see why you would want this. Even if a small group in > Davania (Read: Far away) should be able to reproduce a laserweapon, does > this really do any harm? It could even be fun. Well, we have ~170 people who could reproduce a computer given enough drive to, and they would know how to run it. Davania isn't so far away. The heldanners are VERY close. > not likely to find a Grand Master of Laser pisols. Sorry to burst your bubble, but Jaggar has a pistol. And I'd assume that with little effort, anyone with wheelock skill can use one. I'd love to see a dynamic world. But I don't want to make Mystara into Shadowrun or ST. One Pistol repaired is one thing, but an army of marauding space marines is another. Who knows what is out there in the Prime plane. There could be a race of highly technological aliens out there who'd LOVE to take over a backwater planet like Mystara. Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 23:30:44 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) On Sun, 6 Sep 1998, [iso-8859-1] Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: > artifacts and maybe maintain them. Repairing old ones would require parts > the college doesn't have and would be near impossible. As you say they The college does have parts. The place is built on a preserved Elvish city from the era of Blackmoor. That's where they got the tech. That's why they're scared to let it out. > Why not? Because I personally don't like Shadowrun ;) But besides that, > find orcs and elves wielding submachineguns. Stealing a bit from Shadowrun > could be alot of fun. But then they could bring those things back to AC 1010, and the whole place would be ruined. Any good clockmaker and alchemist can make a gun. Think about who made the first one. A clockmaker. Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 23:34:47 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) > introduction of Gunpowder might change the setting too much, but I like to > think that gunpowder will be invented some day.. Well, lets see. Mystara has had at least one relatively HIGHLY evolved society for at least the past 2000 years. You can't tell me that Alphatia didn't have any alchemists. Why didn't Alphatians develop gunpowder? Why didn't A crazed Glantrian Develop Gunpowder? It took China less than 1000 years to make simple bottle rockets, and they were a culturally repressive society. I dunno. Maybe I'm being a bit hard headed in this arguement :) Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 23:36:26 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) On Sun, 6 Sep 1998, [iso-8859-1] Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: > Worst product Bruce Heard ever wrote. (Sorry Bruce :) D'oh! That's Another product that I love. And I used it for ideas in my project. > Anyway, maybe inviting some gnomes might pull of the technomagic project. Well, Barring Serraine, the Citadel has the largest college of Gnomish Invention in the world. > Maybe that was Garal Glitterlode's idea in the first place...(However you > spell his name). You got it right :) Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 23:43:42 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) On Sun, 6 Sep 1998, James Ruhland wrote: > > This is a minor thing that bugs me about the whole thing; to be blunt a > kind of intellectual lazyness. "Where there is magic, there must be > Alphatians." Well, these aren't your common Alphatians, Plus it makes the place seem more official. The original ide for the Citadel came from a Magical academy I created for my Davanian campaign. In that campaign, there was no Blackmoor, and the tone of the world was very different, Vulcania was the largest empire on the planet, for example. Thie academy was staffed by humans from All over Vulcania. But to fit with Canon, Humans from Vulcania seemed a bit wierd. So I chose Alphatia as the point of origin. It seemed more likely that a few rogue Alphatian teenagers out for a walkabout aboard a rickety old sky-vessel crashing in Davania and making an academy out of the relics they found made more sense than say a few barbarians finding a lost city and worshiping a tree, y'know :) > Design something rather unique, something that makes it distinctively > Davanian. Or why set it in Davania at all? Well, In the oft Mentioned Book of Wonderous Inventions, Jaggar's Transforming Gargantoid made mention of Alphatians in Davania. Also, There are really ony a few Alphatians at the Citadel. The headmaster/Headmistress, their descendants, and a few students and their descendants here and there, but most of the population are davanians, Gnomes, and other wild stuff. It's not a carbon copy of anything. It draws from almost all of my favorite settings with a load of my own ideas. Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 23:50:09 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) On Sun, 6 Sep 1998, James Ruhland wrote: > "plan" is to have the senior Technomages be "close personal friends" of all > the ranking Immortals, so that they can skirt these safeguards. Dang, you're a bit itchy arent you :) Well, the long and short of it is that I never considered the two headmasters to use the Immortals in that way. They know the immortals because they should be Immortals. Other than that, they aren't doing anything bad, considering technomancy isn't as dangerous as pure tech, or Pure magic. > invasion by the Heldannic Knights, for example. That hasn't happened > anyplace else in canon. . . . . > I'm watching to see what happens. My idea is at BEST a tool to introduce some Verne-ish elements into Davania. I'm not trying to change all of Mystara. PC's will visit, maybe even play with the toys, or get sent on quests to go find more broken tech all over Davania, or maybe they might be loaned out a piece of equipment for a purpose or something (With an automatic teleport back after a set time) I've installed enough safeguards to protect against over-ambitious PCs. There should be no worries. Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 23:46:47 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) > > Mystaran Technomancy is not like Rifts technomancy or Shadowrun, or > Cyberpunk. It's VERY Verne-ish. Read the Book Of Wonderous Inventions. > Look at Jaggar's (or that guy from the almanac's) Gargantoid. > All these guys were individual "crackpots", working on their own mad schemes. They didn't have a institution to "formalize" the process. Whatever you think of the BoWI, whether you like it or dislike it, what is apparent is the ad-hoc nature of all these items, and their uniqueness (as well as their outlandishness). I think what you are proposing, technomancy on a grand institutional scale, goes against this. Its technology by another name. > > There are roughly 170 full technomancers on Mystara. And barring a few > that live on Serraine, or some odd crackpots, like Ferdynand Lillipot in > Glantri, or Edison of Glantri, they all live at the Citadel. > See, I think that is the opposite of the way it should be done, if it is to be done. These guys should be scattered, not concentrated. > > I really should send out the citadel document to the list. You're being > exceptionally reactionary to this wonderful idea. > Characterizing your own ideas as wonderful. Well, I do that myself. I guess we share a lack of humility. 8-)~ And the 6,000 figure, with half at the "academy," that was your figure. I didn't make it up out of whole cloth. > > Stop being so Brun-centric, people. There is a lot more on Mystara than > just the silly Known World empires. > Fine: then make it *DAVANIAN*. Don't rely on stuff from elsewhere (I.E. Alphatians). If theres more to Mystara than the KW empires, then show that their is. You were the one that called it the "Xenophobic Alphatian Academy", not me. > > Sorry that last message was a bit harsh, but I needed to impress a point. > Oh, don't worry about my feelings. A good pointed debate is what I expect. I'm certainly blunt, so I can hardly go crying if you feel the need to make a point with solid conviction. 8-) > a catapult uses Newtonian Physics, as does a IC engine. (and you will > notice that IC engines are not prohibited, look at the Honor Island > fireships! > Well, two things about thouse: 1) they rely on elemental-provided steem power, not internal-combustion engines. 2) the HI Fireships, along with the Ierendi Gaz, were designed at the dawn of time, before the whole Blackmoor et al stuff. They might need to be revised a smidgen to fit into the "new world order", make them more magic-items (more akin to skyships and submersibles, but surface craft) than tech-based items. IMO, that "conversion" would be simple, especially since there are only a dozen of 'em. Plus, like some other "anomalies", you'll notice that the Fireships (and the Honor Island mages) simply disapeared from canon: they only show up in the Ierendi Gaz, and no mention is made of them elsewhere (similar to the FRish aspects of the 5 Shires which mostly faded from canon). They "exist" as such, but TSR choose to ignore them in subsiquent pubs. > > Plus, if you really want to play with time, Blackmoor never ended, so > there :D > That's another reason why I think this proposal might be a bit more suited to the ancient Mystara project. Something set during or subsiquent to Blackmoor. A Technomantic institute hidden away in some "invulnerable" mountain fastness somewhere after the fall of Blackmoor, where these guys try to "rebuild the glories of Blackmoor" using technomancy might be appropriate. Then having it follow a "university" model could even be defended. I'm just not buying into the "present" aspect of it all, especially on a monolithic* scale. (where "monolithic"= centralized into one institution, rather than scattered crackpots, which I could live with.) > > It took China less than 1000 years to make simple bottle rockets, and they > were a culturally repressive society. > Watch thouse blanket statements! China has existed for the longest of times (well, among the longest, depending on who you talk to), at times under regimes that repressed inovations, but often fairly "open" and inovative as well. One might be surprised just how many "inventions" originated in China. (No real "Mystara" point to the above, but it needed to be said.) > > Thie academy was staffed by humans from All over Vulcania. But to fit with > Canon, Humans from Vulcania seemed a bit wierd. > Some of this seems promising, though, especially by comparison to the "they are Alphatians" modification. Just make them decendants of nearby humans. Perhaps some form of Milenians (the Milenians have a history of learnedness, a Davanian location, and the scattering/shattering of their empire opens up oportunities to create "fragments" that diverted from the Milenian "baseline", which would be in the area. The Hellenistic age was probably the first era of crackpot inventors, too, IRL) They could then be vastly different from the other Milenians. An "academy" also fits the Milenian "national character," though I still think that the "Technomancy" stuff should be decentralized. How about this: a "university" type community. Departments that are devoted to the usual junk (Philosophy, Rhetoric, Immortal Theology, etc), and a Technomantic department: smaller scale. Say instead of 160 or so "full fledged" Technomancers on hand, more like a dozen "Professors". If its limited in scale, and less fully focused purely on the technomantic aspect, I for one would feel much better about the whole idea. In general I also think Mystara has been becoming way to Alphatia-centric. Everything of import seems to have an Alphatian or two behind it, and it just seems. . .odd. IMO, and just IMO, any Alphatians who might be involved should be considered outlandish outsiders, barely tolerated, not the leaders of the whole endevour. > > Dang, you're a bit itchy arent you :) > You hadn't noticed that before? (Btw: Did you leave out a b on one of the words above? 8-)~ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 00:56:56 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) > 1) they rely on elemental-provided steem power, > *Groan*. I hate it when I typo/mispell simple words. Of course, I meant "steam" power. Hmmmmn. . .or perhaps they're powered by tiny creatures known as "steems," using the paddlewheels as treadmills? 8-)~ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 09:32:55 +0200 (EET DST) From: Anias Pasi Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Problems with Skills > Hi fellow listmembers! > I've got a rules question for you, so listen carefully. > A big problem I'm having these days concerns general skills (or > proficiencies). Some of them have been labeled as "Intelligence" skills, in > particular: > Gemcutting Stonecutting/Sculptor Jeweler > Woodworking Metalworking Glassblowing Have You ever seen an idiot hammering metal or cutting gems and getting something done? I have seen old _not wery dexterious_ men cutting wood or blowing glass and getting fine results. Dexterity is too much about overall movement, ability to dodge and jump or run fast to use it as a base in any professional workskill. You dont need to be _dexterious_ to cut jewels, all You need is a steady hand, good eyes, knowledge as to how its done and intelligence to apply Your knowledge into the work at hand. So, they are int skills. Maybe the above comparison will clarify it to Your player too. Pasi - -- X Pasi Anias X p.03 - 2533536 X \\|// X X Sammonkatu 28 A 18 X a122286@proffa X (o o) X X 33540 Tampere X .cc.tut.fi X o000--(_)--000o X *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 08:09:23 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) >Who knows what is out there in the Prime plane. There could be a race of >highly technological aliens out there who'd LOVE to take over a backwater >planet like Mystara. Sounds like the Tale of the Comet... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 03:59:23 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Problems with Skills In a message dated 1998-09-07 03:06:20 Eastern Daylight Time, a122286@students.cc.tut.fi writes: > Dexterity is too much about overall movement, ability to dodge and jump > or run fast to use it as a base in any professional workskill. You > dont need to be _dexterious_ to cut jewels, all You need is a steady hand, > good eyes, knowledge as to how its done and intelligence to apply Your > knowledge into the work at hand. Of course, the "steady hand and good eyes" are what are meant by the common term "manual dexterity", or "Dexterity/Aim" if you are using "Skills and Powers". Of course, in my own campaign (which pre-dated "Skills and Powers" by several years) I came up with a semi-independent "Craft" ability score to use as the basis of these skills. It was determined by adding dexterity and intelligence, dividing the sum by three (rounded to the nearest whole number), and adding the roll of a d6. Dwarves, gnomes, and other races noted for their fine craftmanship got bonuses to this roll of +1 or +2. Conversely, elves paid for their natural magical talents with a minor penalty to this roll -- but this was not a major problem given their high average intelligence and dexterity and the extra skill slots that their great age gave them. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 12:53:54 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Bummer! :( I accidentally deleted a message from James Ruhland with the topic "Reversal". Can someone send it to me? please? :) Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Ah Gandhi! What a Mensch. And he looked good in a robe too!" -Douglas Wambaugh, Picket Fences. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 14:43:23 +0200 (METDST) From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Nos James Ruhland wrote: <> Well, I thought the same .. at the beginning. But after Mark of Amber, it seems to me that Rad wasn't really "rewarded" by the Old Ones (if that cloaked man WAS an Old One..), rather he was simply drawn inside the NoS because of its alteration (remember: he was linked with the NoS and was very near to it when it was altered). <> Indeed: I would call it a polysemic text.. :) BTW, what is the "official" version of WotI given by TSR in the almanacs? I mean, have the PCs failed and the Old Ones intervened, or did they succeed and nobody saw the OO? Also, it seems to me that with all the implications and consequences that derive from the alteration of the NoS, it wasn't a good thing to have it drain Entropy after all. So I wonder: maybe Benekander hadn't really predicted the outcome of his plan, sacrificing long term consequences of his acts (Entropy arising, as it seems) to the short term benefits (NoS stopping draining magic). Maybe he was obliged by the circumstances (the NoS was becoming unstable) and had no other choice. I say: okay, in this case I can accept the mistake (for it was a mistake IMHO, to have NoS drain Entropy. Better destroy it), even from an Immortal. But what about the alteration at the hands of the Old Ones? They certainly KNEW what could and would have happened, yet the altered it nonetheless.. the same way Benekander would have done it. They did it on pourpose, but WHY? Best solution IMO was to move the NoS away from Mystara and destroy it (and the OO have such power). But they decided to leave it there sucking Entropy and at the same time AIDING the cause of Entropy.. So I ask now: did they do this because they knew something we don't (it would have helped Mystara in the future)? Or did they do it because they wanted to bring mischief in the world? And in this case: are we sure the cloaked figure who appeared in the final showdown was an Old One..? DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 14:43:58 +0200 (METDST) From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Terrorists. On Tue, 1 Sep 1998 18:37:31 +0100, Robert Fry: > Haavard wrote: > >You don't take a bunch of civilians hostage. Noone will care. I beg to differ. Even though the welfare state of the commoners on Mystara is sensibly lower than ours and even though there's no media system to spread the events and mobilize the public opinion, you must remember what a kingdom's pillars are: its citizens. And if many commoners become the targets or the victims of terrorists, the word will spread quite fast ("bad news travel fast"). The rulers cannot prevent news from circulating: they are not that powerful. The result is that in a brief lapse of time the crowd will demand justice and protection from the rulers. Now, here's some possible scenarios: a) who cares? - As many of you pointed out, if only commoners and peasants die because of the terrorism, why should noblemen care about it? If they decide to ignore the population, they will get angrier and angrier, the popular consent will drop with every further act and this will lead to a popular revolt until the commoners' requests aren't accepted (the rulers will then have to face the crowd AND the terrorists) b) retaliation - suppose you find out who the terrorists are, you start a similar campaign of fear in their lands to stop them and teach them a lesson. But if we have learnt something from our history is that violence only calls forth other violence. In this way, the escalation will continue either until one of the two enemies is completely ruined by this campaign (leaving the other in no better state, however) or until both lack the means to go on with it (i.e. lack of loyal followers and "bombs"). In either cases, the winning side will have to also confront a distressed and angry population who suffered greatly from the useless war, and I don't think he will come out with a real victory. So, as you can see, if many people die, MANY people care (their parents at least, and the friends of the parents and dead relatives.. who have other friends, etc..). And many people, if organized, can become a crowd.. an unsatisfied crowd.. and now THIS is a problem for a ruler. <> Yep, BUT they are not certainly to be associated to our mass media. Like saying that XVII century news papers had the same power of modern days newspapers.. Nevertheless they help news spreading, and thus they cannot be underestimated.. DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #602 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, September 7 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 603 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Nos Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Nos Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) RE: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Nos [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Regression Re: [MYSTARA] - Terrorists. Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 14:44:33 +0200 (METDST) From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Nos On Tue, 1 Sep 1998 20:57:34 EDT, Dave Knott wrote: <> So it's Rad's fault if we have this side effect now? I mean, if he wasn't absorbed, the NoS wouldn't have drained anything?.. Could be a twisted joke of fate that neither Benekander nor the old Ones had predicted?.. Seems interesting and likely.. even though I still think the OO must have known about this side effect.. And what would now happen to an Entropic who got sucked by the NoS now? Would it be purged of its evil as well or be powered by it? DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 09:45:34 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Nos In a message dated 1998-09-07 09:18:28 Eastern Daylight Time, mdalmonte@provincia.ra.it writes: > BTW, what is the "official" version of WotI given by TSR in the almanacs? I > mean, have the PCs failed and the Old Ones intervened, or did they succeed > and nobody saw the OO? The almanacs do not say -- remember that the player character actions at the end of WotI are not public knowledge, so only the player characters would involved would know what actually happened. Notice that certain events happen no matter what the PCs do -- both Rad and the entire continent of Alphatia are gone. The only events left up to chance are the ones that nobody else would know about. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 10:32:14 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) At 11:34 PM 9/6/98 -0400, you wrote: > >> introduction of Gunpowder might change the setting too much, but I like to >> think that gunpowder will be invented some day.. > >Well, lets see. Mystara has had at least one relatively HIGHLY evolved >society for at least the past 2000 years. Highly evolved magically... > >You can't tell me that Alphatia didn't have any alchemists. Alchemy does not automatically produce gunpowder. Why would it? > >Why didn't Alphatians develop gunpowder? Why would they? > >Why didn't A crazed Glantrian Develop Gunpowder? Why would he? How about because it is a fantasy setting and that is that. But why do you want to limit yourself so much? You should be free to develop an adventure revolving around the horrible new invention of one Chester Schlongwinkle, who has mixed a grayish powder and developed a tubular device that needs no magic at all! The pcs are then sent to insure that this madman cannot continue his research... However, under your system, such an adventure would be impossible. This is why I continue to be against it. > >It took China less than 1000 years to make simple bottle rockets, and they >were a culturally repressive society. They were a very advanced society. But comparing a real world culture's advancement to a fantasy culture's advancement is ludicrous. China does not exist on Mystara except perhaps as Alphatia. But other than a few racial/cultural similarities, Alphatia is NOT China! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 17:15:32 +0200 From: Kristian Kramer Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) > -----Original Message----- > From: Daly [SMTP:jdaly@friend.ly.net] > Sent: Monday, September 07, 1998 4:32 PM > To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) > > At 11:34 PM 9/6/98 -0400, you wrote: > > > >> introduction of Gunpowder might change the setting too much, but I > like to > >> think that gunpowder will be invented some day.. [Kristian Kramer] [Kristian Kramer] > > > >You can't tell me that Alphatia didn't have any alchemists. > > Alchemy does not automatically produce gunpowder. Why would it? [Kristian Kramer] Why not? It is not very difficult to make, but if someone "invented" gunpowder, why would they instantly make guns, canons and bombs? It would take several decades (if not centuries) to make good canons and that sort of thing. If that's what people will do with gunpowder. Maybe they're going to make rockets or something... But it would certainly be "interesting" to see what would happen IF someone "invented" gunpowder someday. > >Why didn't A crazed Glantrian Develop Gunpowder? > Why would he? How about because it is a fantasy setting and that is > that. > > But why do you want to limit yourself so much? You should be free to > develop an adventure revolving around the horrible new invention of > one > Chester Schlongwinkle, who has mixed a grayish powder and developed a > tubular device that needs no magic at all! > > The pcs are then sent to insure that this madman cannot continue his > research... > > However, under your system, such an adventure would be impossible. > > This is why I continue to be against it. [Kristian Kramer] I thought it was Colin Trinkerschinken who has been fiddling with a certain grayish powder, so the PC should look for him too!! But you're right, a system that makes it impossible to play such adventures, should be banned. > > > >It took China less than 1000 years to make simple bottle rockets, and > they > >were a culturally repressive society. > > They were a very advanced society. But comparing a real world > culture's > advancement to a fantasy culture's advancement is ludicrous. China > does > not exist on Mystara except perhaps as Alphatia. But other than a few > racial/cultural similarities, Alphatia is NOT China! [Kristian Kramer] Hear, hear!! It is BASED on China. > ********************************************************************** > ***** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the > line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 17:32:42 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) On Sun, 6 Sep 1998, James Ruhland wrote: > > Youre wrong! (I think ;) > > Smokepowder is a magical item. Gunpowder just hasn't been invented yet. > > Bruce Heard wrote a Dragon article about introducing Gunpowder into the > > Known World. > I still think I'm right and you're wrong. Point is introducing it is > unpopular for a reason. Well, I cant expect everyone to agree with me on what is cool :) However, I dont think that is reason enough to say that there is some obscure world law preventing technology from ever happening. Making up reasons why technology wont be invented at this point is okay by me, but I dont like any rules preventing the eventuality of it happening. Also, I don´t like the Immortals intervening too much. PCs will really hate that. > > Reducing it in scale might be a good idea, but I generally like this > > stuff.. :) > Thats why I grudgingly accept a reduced scale: some folks will like it, so > having it form a part of the world is ok. OTOH, having a Technomancy > institution equivilent to the RAND Corporation, MIT, or Aztechnology, well. > . . . .I'm dubious at best. I agree with you here. Ethans idea seems to include a bit more tech than I´d expected. However an isolated group of scientists > > > People will probably now say I'm overreacting, but just you wait: > these > > > guys will probably end up fielding, and/or destroying, whole armies. > > > > Nothing you average mage can't do... > > > Both right and wrong. Even where right, this is a fantasy game. IMO, if > you want tech, you should find it elsewhere. Putting it into your own > campaign is also one thing, but putting it into the NA is a whole 'nother > thing. I'm sounding like Alex here, but he convinced me things should be > taken kinda slow. So I'm on (provisional) good behavior. If rampant > monty-haul technology (and/or artifacts etc) get introduced, well, folks > aren't showing much restraint. Don't get me wrong, I can (and have, and > will) power-game with the rest of 'em. But. . . . I don´t think adding a bit of technology neccesarily changes the game. Science Fantasy anyone? Also, we already have items like Jaggars gun. I´m not in charge of the Almanacs, but I dont want to see any radical boost of technology in the near future. What I like it to think about how Mystara will evolve over thousands of years.. This doesn´t really have anything to do with anyones campaign, but I think its interesting anyway. > And your average mage *can't* destroy whole armies. Your average mage can > have quite an impact on a battle, but they can't defeat (by themselves) a > invasion by the Heldannic Knights, for example. That hasn't happened > anyplace else in canon. . . . . > I'm watching to see what happens. true. It was an exaggeration. But a mage can have more impact on a battle than a guy with a plasma rifle. Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Ah Gandhi! What a Mensch. And he looked good in a robe too!" -Douglas Wambaugh, Picket Fences. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 17:54:16 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) On Sun, 6 Sep 1998, SteelAngel wrote: > On Sun, 6 Sep 1998, [iso-8859-1] Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: > > > over time. Anything else is hardly realistic. However, finding a couple of > > artifact wont do much harm IMO. > > A little bit more than a few. We have a whole military bunker filled with > killer robots down here. oh... > > I dont really see why you would want this. Even if a small group in > > Davania (Read: Far away) should be able to reproduce a laserweapon, does > > this really do any harm? It could even be fun. > > Well, we have ~170 people who could reproduce a computer given enough > drive to, and they would know how to run it. > > Davania isn't so far away. The heldanners are VERY close. Well, I guess they have been having trouble communicating with their brothers in heldann after their ships stopped working... > > not likely to find a Grand Master of Laser pisols. > Sorry to burst your bubble, but Jaggar has a pistol. And I'd assume that > with little effort, anyone with wheelock skill can use one. I know about Jaggar. But even though a wheelock looks similar, I would suggest that firing a laser would require a separate skill. All sci fi/multigenre games I´ve seen so far separate laser weapons from others. I think the main reason for this is that you dont have any recoil in laser weapons. This means you´ll have to develope an entirely new aiming technique. > I'd love to see a dynamic world. But I don't want to make Mystara into > Shadowrun or ST. One Pistol repaired is one thing, but an army of > marauding space marines is another. Well, I´m not talking about something happening tomorrow. Im talking about the *far* future.. > Who knows what is out there in the Prime plane. There could be a race of > highly technological aliens out there who'd LOVE to take over a backwater > planet like Mystara. IMC the Galactic Federation lives at the core of the Galaxy.... Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Ah Gandhi! What a Mensch. And he looked good in a robe too!" -Douglas Wambaugh, Picket Fences. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 10:57:32 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) > > true. It was an exaggeration. But a mage can have more impact on a battle > than a guy with a plasma rifle. > Yah; but three guys in a pickup truck with a .50 cal mounted in its bed can wipe out whole Mystaran armies, if realistic ranged, rates of fire, and damage are assumed. (oh, and before you say "well, one mage can just fireball them", the .50 cal has a much greater range than any spell, so the mage is smoked before he gets close enough to cast it). [pointless continuation: ok, a smart mage who uses invisibility and fly can get close, perhaps; except that the pickup moves faster than the fly spell, so he'll have to get lucky to get within range. Then he can toast the Texans with his fireball. However, this is setting the standard kindof low for the "tech" guys; three rednecks with a .50 cal in a pickup. Assume instead an M1A2 tank. The mage can't even scratch the paint.] > > I accidentally deleted a message from James Ruhland with the topic > "Reversal". Can someone send it to me? please? :) > Btw, I tried to send this directly, but got error messages, so appending it to the end of the message: > > I accidentally deleted a message from James Ruhland with the topic > "Reversal". Can someone send it to me? please? :) > I think you meant one titled "Regression" since I can't recall sending out one with the title "Reversal". Anyhow, that one is reproduced below: > Question is, how advanced should > the final level be? If everything will end on say 1700s well end up with > a world similar to Castle Falkenstein. Nothing wrong with that I suppose, > but I'd rather that things degenerate a bit after WotI. > Well, I'd tend to agree; most countries are getting not only advanced, which I don't really mind, but somewhat civilized/stable. I think Mystara needs some 'noid invasions or something, some events to precipitate a "new dark age" , break up some of the kingdoms, make things more dangerous in general; more adventure. Even the so-called "Kingdom of Adventure" is becoming a model of civilized stability and effective central government. Time to stir the pot. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 18:01:33 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) On Sun, 6 Sep 1998, SteelAngel wrote: > On Sun, 6 Sep 1998, [iso-8859-1] Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: > Because I personally don't like Shadowrun ;) Well I do :P > But besides that, > > > find orcs and elves wielding submachineguns. Stealing a bit from Shadowrun > > could be alot of fun. > > But then they could bring those things back to AC 1010, and the whole > place would be ruined. Any good clockmaker and alchemist can make a gun. > Think about who made the first one. A clockmaker. Which is one of the reasons why Time Travel doesnt happen IMC. Khoronus is probably monitoring all timetravellers making sure they dont do any seriosu "harm". My point was that this is what the future of mystara could look like. Not necceasrily, but possibly. Any good clockmaker and alchemist can make a gun, but every clockmaker and alchemist doesnt make a gun. In fact none of them will ever get the idea. In retrospect you might ask why the hell didnt anyone think of that, but things arent that obvious before someone gets the idea. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Ah Gandhi! What a Mensch. And he looked good in a robe too!" -Douglas Wambaugh, Picket Fences. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 18:24:00 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) On Mon, 7 Sep 1998, James Ruhland wrote: > > > > true. It was an exaggeration. But a mage can have more impact on a battle > > than a guy with a plasma rifle. > > > Yah; but three guys in a pickup truck with a .50 cal mounted in its bed > can wipe out whole Mystaran armies, if realistic ranged, rates of fire, and > damage are assumed. (oh, and before you say "well, one mage can just > fireball them", the .50 cal has a much greater range than any spell, so the > mage is smoked before he gets close enough to cast it). > [pointless continuation: ok, a smart mage who uses invisibility and fly > can get close, perhaps; except that the pickup moves faster than the fly > spell, so he'll have to get lucky to get within range. Then he can toast > the Texans with his fireball. However, this is setting the standard kindof > low for the "tech" guys; three rednecks with a .50 cal in a pickup. Assume > instead an M1A2 tank. The mage can't even scratch the paint.] Yep, probably. I agree that there is a risk in this. As an experiment, it could be fun having these three guys as PCs though.. Also, there are other things that can destroy an army..Dragons for example..It would be reasonable to think that Mystaran armies would develope protection from these things. Protection from normal missiles could work against a .50 cal. Anyway, I now agree that we should be cautious about bringing too much technology into Mystara at this point. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Ah Gandhi! What a Mensch. And he looked good in a robe too!" -Douglas Wambaugh, Picket Fences. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 11:31:35 -0500 (CDT) From: Valerya@webtv.net (Jennifer Favia Guerra) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Nos IMC, Rad was, indeed drawn into the NoS by an Old One, but to be put into a kind of stasis, so to speak, so that his obsession with the Radiance would no longer hurt Mystara. As for the connection with Entropy, I left it there, but the way I figure is that the NoS could drain eternally from Entropy WITHOUT hurting that sphere, since Entropy is the sphere of constant decay; all life is in a constant state of decay, endlessly, and so there would be an endless supply for the Nucleus. No, I do not think that the Entopy drained by the NoS will alter it in any way, since it is only taking in "non-energy" rather than energy (kind of like antimatter)--kind of like how your car doesn't change if you convert the engine from unleaded to diesel, it just runs on a different power source. Jenn http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 18:32:23 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Regression On Mon, 7 Sep 1998, James Ruhland wrote: > > I accidentally deleted a message from James Ruhland with the topic > > "Reversal". Can someone send it to me? please? :) > Btw, I tried to send this directly, but got error messages, so appending > it to the end of the message: :( > > I accidentally deleted a message from James Ruhland with the topic > > "Reversal". Can someone send it to me? please? :) > > > I think you meant one titled "Regression" since I can't recall sending out > one with the title "Reversal". Anyhow, that one is reproduced below: Regression, yeah. My bad. Thanks anyway :) > > Question is, how advanced should > > the final level be? If everything will end on say 1700s well end up with > > a world similar to Castle Falkenstein. Nothing wrong with that I suppose, > > but I'd rather that things degenerate a bit after WotI. > > > Well, I'd tend to agree; most countries are getting not only advanced, > which I don't really mind, but somewhat civilized/stable. I think Mystara > needs some 'noid invasions or something, some events to precipitate a "new > dark age" , break up some of the kingdoms, make things more dangerous in > general; more adventure. > Even the so-called "Kingdom of Adventure" is becoming a model of civilized > stability and effective central government. Time to stir the pot. I dont think that is neccesary. Though the Alamanac may have overlooked this, things are quite shaked up after WotI. How about, Darokinian Mercheant Houses getting hungry for more power and giving themselves privelieges like nobles of other countries? Soon, the so-called democracy will fall. As for Glantri, they have had alot of trouble with the Invasion and humanoids in the south. I dont mind Glantri City being advanced since it is _the_ capital of Magic. As for Karameikos, Stefan will soon enough have enough trouble when Jowett dies... Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Ah Gandhi! What a Mensch. And he looked good in a robe too!" -Douglas Wambaugh, Picket Fences. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 11:35:08 -0500 (CDT) From: Valerya@webtv.net (Jennifer Favia Guerra) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Terrorists. Absolutely right, 100 percent. Never underestimate the power of the populace, especially when it is demanding justice--I think Louis XVI learned that the hard way :-) Jenn http//www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ valerya@hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 17:46:30 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) > Yah; but three guys in a pickup truck with a .50 cal mounted in its bed >can wipe out whole Mystaran armies, if realistic ranged, rates of fire, and >damage are assumed. (oh, and before you say "well, one mage can just >fireball them", the .50 cal has a much greater range than any spell, so the >mage is smoked before he gets close enough to cast it). Not to mention, if you can make one pickup truck and a 50 cal, you can mass produce these things far quicker than you can train mages who can cast fireball (I would say, three years of apprenticeship, and then for a non adventurer another couple of years study to get upto 3rd level spells?). Especially with AD+D spells. Fabricate could make one machinegun per casting, assuming the caster knows how to make a machinegun himself. And fabricate is hardly an overpowered spell, its just one of the few noncombat spells around. > [pointless continuation: ok, a smart mage who uses invisibility and fly >can get close, perhaps; except that the pickup moves faster than the fly >spell, so he'll have to get lucky to get within range. Then he can toast >the Texans with his fireball. However, this is setting the standard kindof >low for the "tech" guys; three rednecks with a .50 cal in a pickup. Assume >instead an M1A2 tank. The mage can't even scratch the paint.] Lol. In the book of Tale of the Comet, it was a Terminator style Hunter Killer tank vs the party. The mage threw an Otilukes Freezing Sphere up the exhaust pipe :) Plus, the mage isnt helpless. Spells like Rusting Grasp, There/Not There, and other esoteric stuff works wonders (Tensers Destructive Resonance?). Even using standard spells there are anti-tech stuff. Thats whats cool, the Magic vs Technology aspect. But its only cool as a one off. Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 13:01:17 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) On Sun, 6 Sep 1998, James Ruhland wrote: > well as their outlandishness). I think what you are proposing, technomancy > on a grand institutional scale, goes against this. Its technology by > another name. An Institution of Crackpots is not the same as an industry. A;so, since they have been around for over 1500 years being just silly crackpots, it's cultural almost. What is so wrong about a culture of college students? > See, I think that is the opposite of the way it should be done, if it is to > be done. These guys should be scattered, not concentrated. Why scattered? What fun, unique civilization could that create? NONE! Plus, I don't want the KW to know about the college. I don't want any more than say ONE technomancer in Thyatis, say (He maybe has an estate next to Demetrion) Technomancy is a lost art. Technomancy is its own culture. Why not allow a fantastical civilization of puttering mages, gnomes, nagpa, etc, down in the remotest corner of the remotest continent of Mystara? > Characterizing your own ideas as wonderful. Well, I do that myself. I guess > we share a lack of humility. 8-)~ Laff, that we do. > Fine: then make it *DAVANIAN*. Don't rely on stuff from elsewhere (I.E. > Alphatians). If theres more to Mystara than the KW empires, then show that > their is. You were the one that called it the "Xenophobic Alphatian > Academy", not me. IT IS DAVANIAN! Maybe I'm nonchalantly expecting you to know what i know, but Other than a few Alphatians, and people of Alphatian descent, the Citadel isn't purely Alphatian. The Alphatians don't actively send students there, the Glantrians think that their college is better, even if they knew more of the Citadel than a passing reference in a scholarly tome. The same holds true for anyone else. Not more than a few high level mages know about the Citadel, and they all think it's a joke, or a legend, or the delusions of a few crackpot mages. They live their lives laughing at the thought of a bunch of mages who live in a grand city and build "computers". There is nothing WRONG with using Alphatians. If a Thyatian senator, or a Loser Heldanner found the place, then they'd probably destroy it, or use it for a military base. If the Divergans found it, then they'd wipe it clean, the Elves are overused in Davania, and Gnomes already have their own city. The rest of humanity living in Davania probably would turn the city into a place of worship for dead gods or something like that. The ONLY race in which my idea would gain fruition would be with 3 alphatian runaways who crashed, and decided to study the place. Jeez. Is it that hard? Use your Imaginations people. > 1) they rely on elemental-provided steem power, not internal-combustion > engines. Oo. Quasi-Technomancy.. Harnessing Magic to create a Technological device. Note how those engines are HUGE? > defended. I'm just not buying into the "present" aspect of it all, > especially on a monolithic* scale. Well, lets see. That would.. Umm.. Suck. The Citadel HAS been around for over 1700 years BTW. And in that time it as a culture has done absolutely nothing. Nothing except graduate a mage or two every 2 or 3 years. Mages die. Putting this institution 2000-3000 years previous would be fruitless. Pointless, etc. The Elves that previously inhabited the city would be dead, or not knowlegeable enough to rebuild. The Humans would be about as advanced as Varellyans, If they even would go that far down south. And what happens when the Citadel's students die, eh? When they all die out? They leave a college full of cute magical toys for any PC to get his mitts on. oops! Rethink. The Citadel is an active collector of Blackmoorabilia. They search out pieces to make sure noone else has them. Could the immortals be using the place for that purpose? To make sure technology isn't reverse engineered? > regimes that repressed inovations, but often fairly "open" and inovative as > well. One might be surprised just how many "inventions" originated in Ok, lets see. It took China over 2000 years to use horses for riding. Too "Barbarian" a custom. But then again, Confucious Changed the Culture overnight, almost. You have a point. But so do I :) > Milenian "national character," though I still think that the "Technomancy" > stuff should be decentralized. You're still stuck on the fact that you belive technomancy to be evil. What If I said it was a school for the study of large scale civil engineering? Technomancy has so many flaws, its not even funny. It REALLY only creates relatively useless things compared to the pure magical, or pure technological equivalent. > and a Technomantic department: smaller scale. Say instead of 160 or so > "full fledged" Technomancers on hand, more like a dozen "Professors". Well, we have those departments also. It isn't just a technomantic school. For example, we have the School of Gnomish design - Find out WHY fantasy Physics works, Or the School of Davanian History - Learn the ins and outs of WHY davania works, Or the schol of Archetecture - explore the ruins of this near perfectly preserved elvish city, and learn to construct cool buildings/art. of the 170 technomancers, they all teach. But they all don't teach technomancy, and Rafiel knows, half of them just sit in a lab mulling over wires and tubes of "Ichor of Gold Dragon" trying to repair their "bard in a box" > just seems. . .odd. IMO, and just IMO, any Alphatians who might be involved Alphatia is the single most advanced civilization modern Mystara has ever seen, barring Emerond (for personal reasons :). In it's 2000 year history, it reall didn't do much except for sit there and drink zzonga juice. Its not my fault that every so often, a few Alphatians didn't want that, and wanted to find something else. Sure, the headmasters and founders are alphatian, as were the original students, and i can't think of a PLAUSIBLE way for any other culture to get that far south, or have the interest to develop that sort of unreachable mountain. Plus, it allows me to use a pure bred alphatian shapeshifter. That's a rarity in itself :) > (Btw: Did you leave out a b on one of the words above? 8-)~ now now.. there are kids on this list :) Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #603 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, September 8 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 604 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) RE: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technomancy (Orbital Bombardment). Re: [MYSTARA] - Technomancy (Orbital Bombardment). [MYSTARA] - Blackmoorians Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology: Sturmgeshutz and Sorcery Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoorians Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 19:12:48 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) On Mon, 7 Sep 1998, Rob wrote: > > Yah; but three guys in a pickup truck with a .50 cal mounted in its bed > >can wipe out whole Mystaran armies, if realistic ranged, rates of fire, and > >damage are assumed. (oh, and before you say "well, one mage can just > >fireball them", the .50 cal has a much greater range than any spell, so the > >mage is smoked before he gets close enough to cast it). > > Not to mention, if you can make one pickup truck and a 50 cal, you can mass > produce these things far quicker than you can train mages who can cast > fireball (I would say, three years of apprenticeship, and then for a non > adventurer another couple of years study to get upto 3rd level spells?). Having advanced technology doesnt neccesarily mean you know how to mass produce them. > Especially with AD+D spells. Fabricate could make one machinegun per > casting, assuming the caster knows how to make a machinegun himself. And > fabricate is hardly an overpowered spell, its just one of the few noncombat > spells around. AD&D designers obviously didnt realize how powerful this spell could be. In such a campaign I wouldnt allow this spell to copy complicated items. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Ah Gandhi! What a Mensch. And he looked good in a robe too!" -Douglas Wambaugh, Picket Fences. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 13:19:42 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) On Mon, 7 Sep 1998, Daly wrote: > >You can't tell me that Alphatia didn't have any alchemists. > > Alchemy does not automatically produce gunpowder. Why would it? Well, some guy playing around with sulphur and graphite may discover something. > Why would he? How about because it is a fantasy setting and that is that. Laff. You're using my arguments against me :) > However, under your system, such an adventure would be impossible. > This is why I continue to be against it. But what if the PC's DON'T stop Chester. What if they decide that that weapon is better because it punches through armor, and anyone can use it? > not exist on Mystara except perhaps as Alphatia. But other than a few > racial/cultural similarities, Alphatia is NOT China! No but MChina is ;) Beyond that, I used a RW example, because as we all know, Mystara is based on just about everything real world. Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 13:21:06 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) On Mon, 7 Sep 1998, Kristian Kramer wrote: > but if someone "invented" gunpowder, why would they instantly make guns, > canons and bombs? It would take several decades (if not centuries) to Well, if someone from the SC came by with a cannon, and wanted to use something, and gunpowder was given to them.. Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 13:24:12 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) On Mon, 7 Sep 1998, [iso-8859-1] Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: > Well I do :P ok. > Which is one of the reasons why Time Travel doesnt happen IMC. Khoronus is > probably monitoring all timetravellers making sure they dont do any > seriosu "harm". Wow. Someone else who thinks that Chronomancy isn't all that. :) Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 12:33:25 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) > > IT IS DAVANIAN! > Not as you describe it, and name it. > > Jeez. Is it that hard? Use your Imaginations people. > Well, you've clearly made up your mind. Nothing wrong with that, except that I don't know why you asked for input then. Have fun storming the castle. > > You're still stuck on the fact that you belive technomancy to be evil. > Did I say evil? I said I thought it was a bad idea to introduce it on an institutionalized scale. I don't recall saying it was evil. Please do not twist my words. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 12:35:53 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) > > Not to mention, if you can make one pickup truck and a 50 cal, you can mass > produce these things far quicker than you can train mages who can cast > Yep; even Somalis can ride around in range rovers, chewing khat and shooting up the countryside. > > Lol. In the book of Tale of the Comet, it was a Terminator style Hunter > Killer tank vs the party. The mage threw an Otilukes Freezing Sphere up the > exhaust pipe :) > Exaust pipe? Btw, vents are protected in modern Tanks; its a chem weapon thing. > Plus, the mage isnt helpless. Spells like Rusting Grasp, There/Not There, > and other esoteric stuff works wonders (Tensers Destructive Resonance?). > Assuming you can get in range, perhaps. I'd love to see someone use a "grasp" spell on a M1A2 (brings up the old saying: how do you make Rabbit Stew? First catch the rabbit.) Btw, regarding modern tanks, like the M1A2, the armor is made primarily out of compound ceramics, layerd. A Rusting Grasp spell wouldn't cut it. For the most part, to put "tech" items in games, the designers have to take a lot of liberties, in effect "toning down" the power of technology, so that it forms a fun challenge, not overwhelming but realistic power. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 14:09:29 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) On Mon, 7 Sep 1998, James Ruhland wrote: > Well, you've clearly made up your mind. Nothing wrong with that, except > that I don't know why you asked for input then. Have fun storming the > castle. I admit that it was harsh, but you haven't exactly let up either. > institutionalized scale. I don't recall saying it was evil. Please do not > twist my words. But what it wrong with institutionalizing it? Please explain. You all have ranted about how it would be "better" if it was controlled by random sages, or how the use of the term Alphatian immediately makes it a pointless rip-off, or how the term technomancy implies an industry, or that technomancy will destroy your campaign, or how it screws up the future, or whatever. I have sat here trying my best to explain that my views on technomancy are benign. The whole thing is not even a plot device. Just a small campaign environment. the arguement wasn't about technomancy anyway. It was about whether *high-technology* sould be allowed on Mystara. From what I gather from responses, High Technology should be allowed only if its one shot, or in the future. But hey, why not introduce a group of hillbillies with a machine gun to mow down the armies of Thyatis. Hmm. I'm confuzzled. The point is, the Davanian Team is dead set on using technology/technomancy. That is a given. We'd just like to know what the general consensus is on the MML concerning the current state of blackmoorian technology on Mystara. Is it repairable using real-world techniques, is it repairable only using magic, or is it repairable but corrupted because of the *HIGH-fantasy* environment (a la NoS) We want to know if Arnold Swarzenegger brought a Particle Beam weapon to Mystara what would happen. Would it stop working over time because of Magical interference, or would it be perfectly fine until Bob the elf shot it with an arrow. Then what? Could Arnold fix it using a toolkit, or would he call on Bill the Technomancer? We'd like to know if it was ok if Bill wanted to make a copy of Arnold's weapon, even though it would be over twice the size, wieght, and suck up twice the amount of power, never mind the fact that it just might not work or explode. That's all we want. :) Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 13:36:52 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technomancy (Orbital Bombardment). > > But what it wrong with institutionalizing it? Please explain. > Perhaps its better to instutitionalize it. Then 1) I can go with some ideas I had but which were considered to be beyond the pale and 2) it makes an easier target: Initiate COMMO: Aries Corporation Aerospace Arm. Initiate Orbital THOR Strike. Authorization Code: GAVILAN ECHO Code accepted Target: Surface. Land-based. Xenophobic Alphatian Academy. Local Time: 04:31:00 Time to Target: 29 Seconds Munitions: Deep-Penetrator, Cluster-Fragmenting. APERS, AARMOR. Magic Damper Device: Activate Circular Error Probable= 0 Attritional Damage to Target= 98.6% Collateral Damage to Area= negligable. ***CRITICAL HIT**** Target Destroyed. Return to alert status AMBER. End COMMO. > Is it repairable using real-world > techniques, is it repairable only using magic, or is it repairable but > corrupted because of the *HIGH-fantasy* environment (a la NoS) > Virtually unavailable, de-facto irreparable, corrupted, duplicable (partially) using magic to substitute for effects. > We want to know if Arnold Swarzenegger brought a Particle Beam weapon to > Mystara what would happen. Would it stop working over time because of > Magical interference > I'd go for this one. > We'd like to know if it was ok if Bill wanted to make a copy of Arnold's > weapon, even though it would be over twice the size, > Bill wouldn't know where to start. His likely solution would be to try, or to have a friendly neighborhood mage try, to fix it, to "recharge" it as if it were a wand, and eventually, if very determined, to have a magic item similar to it created. Anyhow, the rest of the exchange is obviously a futile waste of time, so I won't comment on the other stuff anymore, not following the THOR strike, at least. Nothing more to say. 8-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 15:30:59 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technomancy (Orbital Bombardment). On Mon, 7 Sep 1998, James Ruhland wrote: > Return to alert status AMBER. > End COMMO. Passing Draeden: Mmm.. Lunch :) > Virtually unavailable, de-facto irreparable, corrupted, duplicable > (partially) using magic to substitute for effects. > > Bill wouldn't know where to start. His likely solution would be to try, or > to have a friendly neighborhood mage try, to fix it, to "recharge" it as if > it were a wand, and eventually, if very determined, to have a magic item > similar to it created. So why are we arguing? You're opinions match mine in all the important places. Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 19:31:51 CDT From: "Ceaf Lewis" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoorians Hey! I just had an idea! In the Death Gate series by Weis and Hickman, there elves, dwarves, and humans (the "mensch" races) and two races of master magicians-the Sartan and the Patryns. The Sartan had a plan to stops the mench's bickering and make the worlds into better places. However, much like the Blackmoorians, their plan went awry. The Sartan were in suspended animation while the Patryns were in a prison dimension. So maybe the same thing happened to the Blackmoorians and their age-old enemies (make something up to be an enemy) and they could awaken and the enemies could escape, causing a new campaign setting. Ceaf Lewis lordceaf@hotmail.com Visit my web page at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arena/9442 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 02:03:49 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) >Exaust pipe? Btw, vents are protected in modern Tanks; its a chem weapon >thing. Ahh. A few points as concerns modern tanks... 1) the vents to the engine are unprotected, as engines dont suffocate (and on an M1A2 take up rather large amounts of oxygen and vent rather large amounts of heat) 2) internal atmostphere is maintained by an overpressure system, ie it is not hermetically sealed 3) a fireball expands to fill a 20' radius sphere, it will penetrate cracks and so on unlike a nonmagical explosion, hence, like a FAE weapon, the fireball will destroy the tank from the inside 4) even if it doesnt, the optical kit on a tank is highly vulnerable 5) a lightning bolt goes through 1" of solid object per level, and although the frontal armour of a tank is pretty darn thick, the 1" rear armour is, in a word tinfoil... :) Completely off topic - but this stuff must be considered :) >> Plus, the mage isnt helpless. Spells like Rusting Grasp, There/Not >There, >> and other esoteric stuff works wonders (Tensers Destructive Resonance?). >> > Assuming you can get in range, perhaps. I'd love to see someone use a >"grasp" spell on a M1A2 (brings up the old saying: how do you make Rabbit >Stew? First catch the rabbit.) invisibility works wonders. As does stoneskin (You fired a 120mm cannon at me? Thats one attack :) > Btw, regarding modern tanks, like the M1A2, the armor is made primarily >out of compound ceramics, layerd. A Rusting Grasp spell wouldn't cut it. > For the most part, to put "tech" items in games, the designers have to >take a lot of liberties, in effect "toning down" the power of technology, >so that it forms a fun challenge, not overwhelming but realistic power. well, there are a lot of spells where the exact material is irrelevant. Lightning bolt for one :) Tensers destructive resonance for another :). In my experience, high level magic is more powerful than technology. The problem with tech is that it is easily reproducable, whereas high level magics are not. (And incidentally, the true power of magic is certainly not battle magic, like fireballs and other mundane stuff. Magic cheats - extraplanar travel, mind control, illusion and that sort of thing is infinitely more powerful...) Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 02:08:13 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) >Having advanced technology doesnt neccesarily mean you know how to mass >produce them. Assuming the Technomancer has access to magic, he certainly can. He can use magic to duplicate the non magical item that is the technology... > Especially with AD+D spells. Fabricate could make one machinegun per > casting, assuming the caster knows how to make a machinegun himself. And > fabricate is hardly an overpowered spell, its just one of the few noncombat > spells around. >AD&D designers obviously didnt realize how powerful this spell could be. >In such a campaign I wouldnt allow this spell to copy complicated items. Well, TSR did, because the proviso on the spell is that u have to know how to make the item yourself before you can use a fabricate spell to make it for you. However, if your mage can make a machinegun, then he is away. Concerning the power level, Fabricate is one of the very few combat spells in the PHB, and I wish there were more of them. And a 5th level spell is not exactly puny, you have to be a 9th level mage (ie Name level) to cast even one of them... It certainly is not unbalanced, as in a conventional, non tech game what are you going to make with it? All that tells me is that there are too many high level people wandering around... Fabricate is just an example of what a combination of magic and technology can do. In Tale of the Comet, the bullets in a minigun were magically amped (i guess a Striking spell, or Enchanted Weapon or something) to deadly effect... Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 02:21:08 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) >The point is, the Davanian Team is dead set on using >technology/technomancy. That is a given. We'd just like to know what the >general consensus is on the MML concerning the current state of >blackmoorian technology on Mystara. Is it repairable using real-world >techniques, is it repairable only using magic, or is it repairable but >corrupted because of the *HIGH-fantasy* environment (a la NoS) OK. Well, the problem IMO is reproducability. To counter this conventional magic should have a detrimental effect on tech. So no Fabricate spells, or anything even remotely like it. I also dont think that these items should be easily made at all. Making computers is a bit off. Making electricity to power primitive light bulbs is fine by me, as are things like simple radio waves (making sparks at a distance), flourescent tubes, primitive combustion engines, that sort of thing. ie kindof 19th early 20th tech. Which, incidentally, is the level at which Jules Verne is set. >We want to know if Arnold Swarzenegger brought a Particle Beam weapon to >Mystara what would happen. Would it stop working over time because of >Magical interference, or would it be perfectly fine until Bob the elf shot >it with an arrow. Then what? Could Arnold fix it using a toolkit, or would >he call on Bill the Technomancer? > >We'd like to know if it was ok if Bill wanted to make a copy of Arnold's >weapon, even though it would be over twice the size, wieght, and suck up >twice the amount of power, never mind the fact that it just might not >work or explode. It should be harder to make technomantic stuff than magical kit, otherwise magical stuff would be superseded by now by these Technomages (sorry, but this "Oh, we dont do this sort of thing because we are all eccentric scientists" guff doesnt cut it with. That smacks far too heavily of the 10th level spell, Plot Twist, or the 11th level spell, The DM Says So. Not to mention the Realms). So, if your Plasma Rifle is a Wand of Lightning, it should be at least as hard to repair/make/recharge a Plasma Rifle as a Wand of Lightning. And possibly have interesting side effects (Of course, these devices are fully tested before we give them to you - you are perfectly safe...) If you are purely doing this because you consider it to be "cool" than having it inferior to magic (doubtless magic has received far more effort and research than these 170 crackpots have managed to invest in technomancy) shouldnt be a problem. It also discourages it from spreading (PC - well, i can have this Plasma Rifle, or my Wand of Lightning. I'll take the wand...) Cheerz Rob >That's all we want. :) > > >Ethan > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 20:27:00 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) It was an exaggeration. But a mage can have more impact on a battle >than a guy with a plasma rifle. Neither of them have to necessarily have more of an impact than the other. There's a quote from PC2, "At high levels, magic becomes indistinquisable from technology." Sure the underlying principles that power the two are vastly different, but the effect is the same. Would a player care whether s/he gets hit for 15 points of damage from a fireball or 15 points of damage from a laser? The difference is merely one of effect: the Oard ray glove fires bolts that are exactly like magic missiles, except that the poor Oard doesn't automatically hit. In some ways, magic can be more powerful: a mage doesn't need to worry about cleaning his staff after every battle, or be concerned that rain will screw up the magic sword he gave the burly barbarian (who, like most soldiers and peseants across Mystara, wouldn't know or care about this sort of debate). Really, what's more unbalancing: a wizard running around with a sub-machinegun, or a paladin with a holy avenger? I feel that, provided technology or technomancy (both of which, if played right, should be seen by the players as nothing more than a new regular spell) are not capable of radical improvements over standard magic, they can be used without problem. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 20:34:47 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) >Not to mention, if you can make one pickup truck and a 50 cal, you can mass produce these things far quicker than you can train mages who can cast fireball Just because someone suddenly gains technology doesn't mean that they'll be able to mass produce it (I use Civilization to help chart out tech developments). With the way development on Mystara seems to run, Magic Mass Production should be achieved first. Mystara is currently in a sort of Renassaince/Medival mindset of magic: you apprentice to a master, or go to an elite college for some, who will distill his wisdom. Every mage is, to a sense, one of the luminaries of the Rebirth: they all are trying to figure out the limits and rules of magic. Sometime in the future (Alphatia is probably the closet to this, but with the vicious infighting in regards to magic research, this won't be for a while), Mystara will have an Industrial Revolution of sorts, where magic will be cheap and mass produced. Available to anyone, magic items will be commonplace. As Mystara is much more developed magically than technologically, I predict that magic will continued to be developed at the expense of technoilogy, especially as they mostly accomplish the same function. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 23:40:55 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) i have been quiet regarding this thread. the reason is that a similar discussion is commencing within the davania team. most of what has been presented and responded to on the mml is fairly well reflective in the davania team. technology is present in various forms on mystara. though different, you cannot outlaw or restrict technology on a limited basis. if you clean the slate of one form of technology then all forms must go. this is bad as it takes out the good with the bad. imo tech should not be outlawed from mystara. that does not mean i want a high tech level for mystara. imo it should be up to each individual DM to impose the exact limitations and doctrines regarding tech. tech is alot like other game tools like magic, magic items, treasure, etc. if use badly or overused it will affect game balance. but these attributes are up to the individual DM to make or break a campaign. there's been talk as to explain why tech will or won't work on mystara. imo there is no need to establish a rule. as mentioned above, that is up to the individual DM. mystara is a sword and sorcery setting. i see little reason for a drastic change. i have to doubt a true mystara fan would drastically change the setting. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 23:14:36 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology: Sturmgeshutz and Sorcery > invisibility works wonders. As does stoneskin (You fired a 120mm cannon at > me? Thats one attack :) > But each bullet from the coaxial machinegun is an attack. That'll smoke you quickly (most abused spell probably isn't Fabricate, or even Wish, it is Stoneskin). > > well, there are a lot of spells where the exact material is irrelevant. > Lightning bolt for one :) > Depends. Most ceramics are insulators vs. electricity. I'm not sure about Chobham (sp?) armor, but I doubt lightning bolt will do much to it. Plus, as I pointed out before, range=limited by comparison to modern weapons. > Tensers destructive resonance for another :). In > my experience, high level magic is more powerful than technology. > You have actual personal experience? Share with the group, please 8-). OTOH, in my limited gaming experience, most modern weapons seem to have been "toned down" a bit (especially the armored monstrosities) so that they will be a challege, but not effectively invincible. > > (And incidentally, the true power of magic is certainly not battle magic, > like fireballs and other mundane stuff. Magic cheats - extraplanar travel, > mind control, illusion and that sort of thing is infinitely more > powerful...) > I'd agree with that. A true mage probably scoffs at some dude who is little more than a glorified flamethrower for a party of subterenean thieves. Still, all this talk about tech vs. magic made me go look up the old "Sturmegshutz and Sorcery" article, reprinted in Best of The Dragon (#1). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 23:16:48 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoorians > mench's bickering and make the worlds into better places. However, much > like the Blackmoorians, their plan went awry. The Sartan were in > suspended animation while the Patryns were in a prison dimension. So > maybe the same thing happened to the Blackmoorians and their age-old > enemies (make something up to be an enemy) > Well, the Patryns sound similar to the Carnifex, so they'd make a good "enemy" for this scheme. Might be an interesting alternate timeline. 8-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 01:36:12 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, Rob wrote: > Assuming the Technomancer has access to magic, he certainly can. He can use > magic to duplicate the non magical item that is the technology... But if the technology decays, it won't work. Technomancy is not making technology with magic. It is making broken technology work with magic. IE taking a device whose physics is unknown/can't work anymore on Mystara, or whatever, and making it work using Mystaran Physics - Magic. > Well, TSR did, because the proviso on the spell is that u have to know how > to make the item yourself before you can use a fabricate spell to make it > for you. Ahh. There's the Rub. D&D doesn't use fabricate, ergo, No problems :) Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #604 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, September 8 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 605 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Better Living through Fabrication Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology: Sturmgeshutz and Sorcery Re: [MYSTARA] - Better Living through Fabrication Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants Re: [MYSTARA] - Problems with Skills Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics and Magical items Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) [MYSTARA] - Valerias Energy or Matter? Does it matter? Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics and Magical items [MYSTARA] - Davinian Deserts Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics and Magical items Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 01:50:28 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, Rob wrote: > magic should have a detrimental effect on tech. So no Fabricate spells, or > anything even remotely like it. Well, lets say fabricate could make a machine gun. But with no gunpowder, its about as useful as a broken clock. > ie kindof 19th early 20th tech. Which, incidentally, is the level at which > Jules Verne is set. Well, I wans't considering even that level of pure technology. The pure technological level remains at the "renaissance" level. With magic though, anything is possible. Imagine hooking up a wand of lightning to power up a makeshift Heating device! or a bunch of vials of goatsblood and a bronze dragon liver to make your freezer run. That's technomancy. > It should be harder to make technomantic stuff than magical kit, otherwise > magical stuff would be superseded by now by these Technomages (sorry, but I beleive in a previous letter, i stated that a techno laser works exactly like a wand of lightning, but its about as bulky as a cement brick, and much heavier than a wand. Also, batteries are nice, if they work, or don't explode. > possibly have interesting side effects (Of course, these devices are fully > tested before we give them to you - you are perfectly safe...) Of course. Now if you take our 7 week course on saftey with this device for 700 GP, we'll teach you to make it work too :) > shouldnt be a problem. It also discourages it from spreading (PC - well, i > can have this Plasma Rifle, or my Wand of Lightning. I'll take the wand...) That's the point. For the past 1500 years the best that the college can come up with are bulky, relatively inefficient devices. Sure, it's possible to repair a Blackmoor device so its a little better off than a pure technomagic breed, but even still, how many Blackmoorian devices are left? For example, the "computers" at the citadel are of ancient blackmoorian origin. They looked like flatpack briefcase computers. When they broke down, the owning technomancer could fix it, but the end result was equivalent to rebuilding a Cray super computer into a Pentium 233. What's worse is the computers bult from scratch, spare parts and magic. Those things look like ENIAC, and run about the speed of a 386 on a good day. And more technology is breaking down every day. You can fix it, sorta, or design copies, kinda, or just let it go to waste, never :) Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 00:49:20 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) > > imo tech should not be outlawed from mystara. that does not mean i want a high > tech level for mystara. > Tech Level 2-3 seems best to me. Too many things start to happen that cause fundimental changes once you reach TL 4 or 5 (and beyond). > there's been talk as to explain why tech will or won't work on mystara. imo > there is no need to establish a rule. as mentioned above, that is up to the > individual DM. mystara is a sword and sorcery setting. i see little reason for > a drastic change. i have to doubt a true mystara fan would drastically change > the setting. > I think I'd agree with that in general. Leave it vague, let each DM decide for their own campaigns. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 00:56:59 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Better Living through Fabrication > > > Well, TSR did, because the proviso on the spell is that u have to know how > > to make the item yourself before you can use a fabricate spell to make it > > for you. > > Ahh. There's the Rub. > > D&D doesn't use fabricate, ergo, No problems :) > My cursed problem is that I can never find anything when I need it, but IIRC there is a similar spell described in the DotE booklet on Alphatia. TSR even "recognized" the potential problems this spell could cause: in the Chronomancy supliment, it is pointed to as the key spell for evolving a high-magic society (Fabricating goods through magic, Fabricating magitech items, etc; the development of "Fabrication" specialists and a specialized "school" of magic that revolves around it are pointed to as "key" moments in magical development). This shows they were aware of the "problem" but decided to leave it "as is". Could be interesting, but I've never chosen to go that route. I guess in the Mystaran version of the movie "The Graduate," Dustin Hoffman would be told to go into "Fabrication" rather than plastics. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 02:24:58 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) On Mon, 7 Sep 1998 Alex295@aol.com wrote: > a drastic change. i have to doubt a true mystara fan would drastically change > the setting. Oof. Alex, that hurt.. a lot. Making high technology decay slowly because of magical interference would hurt only one setting drastically, and that is yours. I have nothing against high tech. I considered making the Citadel able to completely reproduce technology, but I in my maybe warped reasoning deemed that *bad* Why? Because of mass production. Because of major setting changes. Because of Immortal interference Because I was scared what it would do to Mystara. So I wanted to set a precedent that technology could exist, but couldn't be repaired without magic. The DV team thought that a bit harsh, and someone sugessted the corruption of high technology by the magical energy of the planet/NoS/whatever. This precedent wouldn't stifle the DM in any way. I have played in Campaigns where WoTI never sank Alphatia, or somesuch. Rules are meant as general guidelines, not rock solid set in stone commandments. Obviously I don't want everyone to share my opinion, and granted, many people here haven't. But in an effort to stop high tech from spreading I wanted to set a world spanning guideline that unless the DM says so, that high tech decays because of magic. This would only affect future developments, but shouldn't stifle the DM. If he/she wants to run Tale of the comet, so be it. I'm not going to teleport in to stop them. If they want to have a "gunpowder" adventure, why not? But I don't want some NPC in the Almanac to pick up the blueprints for a super-weapon in some other dimension and start to mass produce them. I just want to make sure that noone gets it in their heads to develop an "net-official" scenario where high technology can proliferate unchecked, and i think there are people who will agree with me on that. Now if that makes me less of a Mystara fan, then so be it. Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 08:08:16 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology: Sturmgeshutz and Sorcery >But each bullet from the coaxial machinegun is an attack. That'll smoke you >quickly (most abused spell probably isn't Fabricate, or even Wish, it is >Stoneskin). Lol, I agree (I dont use stoneskin). However, a burst from a machinegun would be 1 attack, just as a spray of thorns from an archer bush is one attack :) >> Tensers destructive resonance for another :). In >> my experience, high level magic is more powerful than technology. >> >You have actual personal experience? Share with the group, please 8-). Lol. Well, it seemed to be in Tale of the Comet, anyway... Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 08:10:07 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Better Living through Fabrication >> Ahh. There's the Rub. >> >> D&D doesn't use fabricate, ergo, No problems :) well, if u only use D+D spells mages can only, er, flame things... > I guess in the Mystaran version of the movie "The Graduate," Dustin >Hoffman would be told to go into "Fabrication" rather than plastics. I believe Chronomancer also mentions spells like polymorph nose :) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 08:12:47 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) >>Not to mention, if you can make one pickup truck and a 50 cal, you can >mass produce these things far quicker than you can train mages who can >cast fireball > > Just because someone suddenly gains technology doesn't mean that >they'll be able to mass produce it (I use Civilization to help chart out >tech developments). Me too. But the Mass Production advance is modern assembly line tactics. You dont even need that. You get Musketeers way before Mass Production, and muskets were produced in sufficient quantity to outfit whole armies... Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 08:13:52 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) >> Assuming the Technomancer has access to magic, he certainly can. He can use >> magic to duplicate the non magical item that is the technology... > >But if the technology decays, it won't work. > >Technomancy is not making technology with magic. It is making broken >technology work with magic. IE taking a device whose physics is >unknown/can't work anymore on Mystara, or whatever, and making it work >using Mystaran Physics - Magic. Well, u did say in an earlier post that these guys could make computers... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 12:11:15 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) On Mon, 7 Sep 1998, SteelAngel wrote: > On Mon, 7 Sep 1998, [iso-8859-1] Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: > > > Well I do :P > > ok. Lol :) > > Which is one of the reasons why Time Travel doesnt happen IMC. Khoronus is > > probably monitoring all timetravellers making sure they dont do any > > seriosu "harm". > > Wow. Someone else who thinks that Chronomancy isn't all that. :) Time travel gives me a headache, thats all. If I wanted to really screw up my campaign I'd use Time travel. Since I dont I wont use it except in really controlled ways. Ie Khoronus could transport the characters naked back and forth, preferrably to the future, since involving the past is too likely to affect the present, which can be disaterous. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Ah Gandhi! What a Mensch. And he looked good in a robe too!" -Douglas Wambaugh, Picket Fences. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 12:18:51 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project On Sun, 6 Sep 1998, Jennifer Favia Guerra wrote: > Who should be the "housewife-goddess"? > > According to WOTI, Patura (Initiate, Sphere of Energy) is "a patron of > downtrodden women everywhere." It also cross-references to IM2 as > "Hera." This is a distinct possibility. I also suggest, if you are not > into Thyatian-type Immortals but rather want one attuned to another > culture, that any parton of a people (such as Ilsundal for elves, etc.) > could do double duty as a patron of the household of those people. > Remember that in Greece, Athene was not only the patron of war but also > of Athens and its citizens. Sounds reasonable to me. I really hate Immortal Storm, the adventure where Patura was introduced, but I guess I can just ignore that. Alphatia would probably be such a deity in the former alphatian region, and in more primitive regions Freyja or any of the nature Immortals could work aswell. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Ah Gandhi! What a Mensch. And he looked good in a robe too!" -Douglas Wambaugh, Picket Fences. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 05:26:36 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Project and Immortal Servants >Well -- to cite my original example, Mealiden managed to reach the rank of >"Empyreal" without ever establishing an independent cult that I am aware of. >And while I am sure that he is more of a "friend" than a "slave" to his mentor >Ilsundal, the fact remains that he managed to reach level 23 as an Immortal >without ever striking out on his own. So now I wonder -- how much higher >could he possibly ascend without showing some independence? > So according to current `canon` BUT, what about what he`s done on other planets and planes? Another point is who`s point of view is used for the Immortal writeups? There`s lots of difference between human nations let alone other species. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 05:31:23 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Problems with Skills >Now, some of my players have argued that these depends not on the actual >Intelligence of the worker, but on its manual skills (thus Dexterity). My >problem is now: where to place all these skills? Dex or int? Your opinion? > Well there`s only one answer that really matters and that`s where do YOU want them? Players are like small children, they whine when they don`t get their own way. As a GM it`s your duty to expose them to the harsh realities of life, and the fact that those with the power make the rules. <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 08:45:48 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) James Ruhland wrote: > > > > > true. It was an exaggeration. But a mage can have more impact on a battle > > than a guy with a plasma rifle. > > > Yah; but three guys in a pickup truck with a .50 cal mounted in its bed > can wipe out whole Mystaran armies, if realistic ranged, rates of fire, and > damage are assumed. (oh, and before you say "well, one mage can just > fireball them", the .50 cal has a much greater range than any spell, so the > mage is smoked before he gets close enough to cast it). Only if the battle happens in a vaccuum. What about "Protection from Normal Missles"? How about surrounding the guy, digging ditches, disrupting the terrain so as to cause the truck to be useless... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 05:49:39 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics and Magical items >Another quick rules problem. IYC, what kind of magical items can clerics >manufacture? I mean, potions, staffs, armours (?), weapons (??)... Depends totally on system IMC. If its OD&D then I use the cyclo. rules so they can create clerical scrolls, potions of clerical spells, misc. magic that uses clerical magic and armour/weapons which have plusses and clerical spell effects. same thing for mage just substitute mage for cleric. In AD&D If PC is speciality cleric or specialist mage then they can only create magic utilising things they Know or have scrolls of eg healers make best curative items, invokers make kickass items etc. And how >did they actually manage to create them? how do they enchant them, what's >the process used? > In OD&Dagain I use cyclo it covers nearly all you need, however the table from Gaz3 for materials used is also useful. In AD&D I allow both Enchant item/Permanency AND OD&D style creation. In this case however if a successful Dispel Magic is cast at the permanency it goes. >On a similar note, do you give clerics the permission to create new spells? Yes if they fit their chosen imortal. If `canon` NPCs can do it why not PCs? just use those spell research tables and automatically negate spells with unforseen side effects.(heirarchs spend a few PP each and it no longer works) HEY I finally found a use for Immortal level wish costing 10PP. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 09:05:20 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) SteelAngel wrote: > > On Mon, 7 Sep 1998, Daly wrote: > > > >You can't tell me that Alphatia didn't have any alchemists. > > > > Alchemy does not automatically produce gunpowder. Why would it? > > Well, some guy playing around with sulphur and graphite may discover > something. Only if you, as the DM, choose for him to. At least that is the way it is at present. The rule you are proposing, would make a blanket statement to everyone that they COULD NOT allow an alchemist to discover any such thing...because it wouldn't work anyway. > > > Why would he? How about because it is a fantasy setting and that is that. > > Laff. You're using my arguments against me :) That's always the best argument! :) > > > However, under your system, such an adventure would be impossible. > > This is why I continue to be against it. > > But what if the PC's DON'T stop Chester. What if they decide that that > weapon is better because it punches through armor, and anyone can use it? Then that becomes an adventure itself. One DM might choose to make the pcs npcs and have the players roll up new characters to go after the rogues. Another might allow them to keep their toy (since he took pains to make sure they only discovered one or two working models to begin with). Still another DM might choose to let them keep the toy but "persuade" them to destroy it when bigger and bigger bad guys get wind of the incredible power of this nonmagical device. When the evil warlord wants it, you have it and it becomes too dangerous to keep, what do you do with it? See? All this glorious adventure opportunity would be destroyed with a blanket law removing all new tech from Mystara! > > > not exist on Mystara except perhaps as Alphatia. But other than a few > > racial/cultural similarities, Alphatia is NOT China! > > No but MChina is ;) Alphatia IS MChina :) > > Beyond that, I used a RW example, because as we all know, Mystara is based > on just about everything real world. Based does not mean it has to march in lockstep. Thyatis was supposed to be Byzantine (btw, I would strongly suggest anyone interested in Thyatis to check out the MMB...James has produced some excellent material there on some Byzantine alternatives...Thyatis as it was meant to be!) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 09:22:58 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) SteelAngel wrote: > I just want to make sure that noone gets it in their heads to develop an > "net-official" scenario where high technology can proliferate unchecked, So instead, you are attempting to make a "net-official" scenario where high technology is restricted for everyone who cares about "net-official"? > and i think there are people who will agree with me on that. Of course! And there are those who disagree! *grin* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 06:48:29 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Valerias Energy or Matter? Does it matter? >It's something that has been bothering me for a while too. She doesn't >really seem to belong with Matter. Thought could be an option aswell... > Why theneed to change? IIrc she only became interested in romance/passion once there were creatures evolved enough to have these emotions, and IIrc again isn`t she supposed to be one of the really old immortals who can no longer remember ever being mortal. If you live that long even several eons is only a slight divergence of thought after all isn`t she listed as Chaotic alignment? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 06:57:40 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics and Magical items >> But not, I don't think that it is reassonable to permit clerics new spe= >lls. >> But I don't think that this is reasonable for magic-users neither. > >Why not? Because of game balance or because it doesn't sound logical that >someone who knows magic can expand his knowledge in new ways, unknown to >the society he lives in? > The real problem with this is that `SOMEONE` actuall had to go out and create ALL the standard spells from scratch as `NEW` spells. You can`t have 9th level spells when noone can cast them or even knows of the possibility of their existance. BTW whilst we`re talking about new spells how come the big construction spells from DotE became standards? They were one of the things that balanced Secret Crafts, only Alphatians could build REALLY big magic items from scratch. IMC they are the only ones who have access to these magics, and I also limited the range that a member of a secret craft could be away from the NoS and still perform Craftmagic. I think the last bit is actually `canon` but Ican`t remember from where! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 07:07:52 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Davinian Deserts This is to all those involved with Davinia especially but all feedback will be ruthlessly plagerised for my campaign if I like it. Basically what`s going on in the desert SW of Thyatian Hinterlands? I`ve gotten an idea about 3 HUGE oasis (what`s the plural?) about 200 miles apart with the nearest about 500 miles from the Hinterlands. There are Wierd magical effects such as teleporting in the area can turn you inside out rumoured about the area and the westernmost of the oasis is ruled by someone known as the `Twilight Necromancer`. If I`m not stepping on anyones toes would you all be interested in the whole story? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 07:12:03 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) >generally I think that technology should work in the same ways as in our >world. Magic can work in many ways though... > What if the Immortals change the rules of Thermodynamics? Ignore that they do it already and call it magic. <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 07:15:23 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics and Magical items >feel. And I really hated that stuff about Mystaras magic being stolen fro= >m >another world. > I used it as the basis for a campaign in which the original owners tried to get it back. Lots of fun for me, I got to use some of my really weird ideas. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 07:22:28 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) > Simply put, were you to travel to Mystara's future, you would not >find advanced technology. You would find advanced magic. To paraphrase Clarke`s law `Any sufficiently advanced magic, is indistinguishable from technology!` ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 07:27:25 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) >> In hopes of NOT causing undue knowledge of the secrets of Davania, The >> team only has 2 major points of technology/technomancy on the continent. >> The Xenophobic Alphatian Technomancy academy, and the Blackmoorian >> Military Bunker, where half the technology doesn't work well anyway. > >Thesed guys remind me of the Foundation... :) > > > >I always thought the Empire was far cooler :) > Me, Iprefer the Gran Britainians That`s technowizardry to a T. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 07:27:25 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) >> In hopes of NOT causing undue knowledge of the secrets of Davania, The >> team only has 2 major points of technology/technomancy on the continent. >> The Xenophobic Alphatian Technomancy academy, and the Blackmoorian >> Military Bunker, where half the technology doesn't work well anyway. > >Thesed guys remind me of the Foundation... :) > > > >I always thought the Empire was far cooler :) > Me, Iprefer the Gran Britainians That`s technowizardry to a T. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #605 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, September 8 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 606 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) [MYSTARA] - Time travel and its effects on clerics, paladins et al [MYSTARA] - Strange ... about Karameikos. Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Restricting it... Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Davinian Deserts Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Strange ... about Karameikos. Re: [MYSTARA] - Time travel and its effects on clerics, paladins et al Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic Re: [MYSTARA] - Better Living through Fabrication Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Valerias Energy or Matter? Does it matter? Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics and Magical items Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Strange ... about Karameikos. Re: [MYSTARA] - Strange ... about Karameikos. Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Restricting it... Re: [MYSTARA] - Strange ... about Karameikos. Re: [MYSTARA] - Time travel and its effects on clerics, paladins et al [MYSTARA] - Princess Ark columns Re: [MYSTARA] - Better Living through Fabrication Re: [MYSTARA] - Time travel and its effects on clerics, paladins et al Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 07:43:08 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) >Who knows what is out there in the Prime plane. There could be a race of >highly technological aliens out there who'd LOVE to take over a backwater >planet like Mystara.=20 > Have you been reading my mind? About a year ago I finished a campaign which had a hitech galactic power struggle as it`s main backdrop. Basically I stole the `Split Infinities/Adept` series and trimmed it to fit. Plagerism the savior of the pressed for time. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 07:49:55 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Time travel and its effects on clerics, paladins et al Probably been discussed before but what actuall happens to a cleric, paladin etc. if theyntravel back in time to before their patron achieved Immortality? I`ve got a new group who`ve never been to Blackmoor and this is the first time I`ll have any in the party for the adventures. IMO they`re buggered until they gain new patrons buts what`s the `canon` or opinion of the list? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 07:51:22 PDT From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Strange ... about Karameikos. Hi Mystarans Has someone the AlmanachIII ? The description of Karameikos history in the geographic entry is somehow strange : Don't you said Karameikos was a free country ? They're saying it's a self ruled country but not a free one ! There're still problem with this country ! Friendly Marcus ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 07:30:54 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) >Hmm. Give me a Glantrian Prince and i will move the world :) > Only if the immortals aren`t looking. I`m sure that they`ll be really annoyed when you do somethingwith magic that they have to spend PP to achieve. BTW what form of subquark particle do you most want to become? <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 10:58:55 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Restricting it... My favorite method of limiting tech in Mystara, is the idea that Mystarans simply don't think that way. I got into this a little bit a while back when I started the thread about Nithian vs Blackmoor vs Alphatian magics and magic items. Simply put, you or I would pick up a nifty sci fi device and wonder how such a thing was produced and what sort of energies powered it. But we would consider electricity, chemical, or even nuclear powers...perhaps we might even consider/imagine mind power. We might marvel that a generator could fit in such a tiny device, or that a laser could be manufactured with such power. A Mystaran on the other hand, would start reflecting on what elements went into the design. Does the magic seem more pyromantic or aeromantic? Does it conduct the magic through pure gold or silver? Does it focus the power through a gem? A magical lens perhaps? You see, a Mystaran would not be able to reproduce technology for the simple reason that his assumptions are all wrong! There are no other explanations needed. If your player says, "I am going to build a huge generator in that old mill. Using water power, I will give my peasants running water and electric lights, thus proving myself the greatest lord of Norwold!", then you simply say he cannot fathom such a device. Even if the player fully describes how to build such a thing. Even if he says, in a somewhat overly condescending tone, "Well, such a device is really quite simple. Anyone can think of it." Forget it! He cannot conceive it. Beyond his ability. Period. No need for extra, unwieldy rules. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 08:00:33 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) >> 1) they rely on elemental-provided steem power, >> >*Groan*. I hate it when I typo/mispell simple words. Of course, I meant >"steam" power. > Hmmmmn. . .or perhaps they're powered by tiny creatures known as "steems," >using the paddlewheels as treadmills? 8-)~ > You will be forgiven once the full stats of the `steems` has been given out and devoured by the ravenous monster that is the MML. IIrc TSR got a new creature or two themselves from such typos. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 17:03:34 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Davinian Deserts On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, paul dooley wrote: > This is to all those involved with Davinia especially but all feedback > will be ruthlessly plagerised for my campaign if I like it. > Basically what`s going on in the desert SW of Thyatian Hinterlands? I`ve > gotten an idea about 3 HUGE oasis (what`s the plural?) about 200 miles > apart with the nearest about 500 miles from the Hinterlands. There are > Wierd magical effects such as teleporting in the area can turn you > inside out rumoured about the area and the westernmost of the oasis is > ruled by someone known as the `Twilight Necromancer`. If I`m not > stepping on anyones toes would you all be interested in the whole story? Go ahead and post it. I'm not part of the Davania project or anything, but I'm interested anyway. I think you can say 'oasises' but i'm not a native english speaker or anything..'oasi' doesnt sound right to me anyway. the Twighlight Necromancer sounds like an interesting fellow. Any relation to the Necromancer kings? Håvard. PS: I have this idea about a race of Giants living in that desert. Somewhat inspired by Dark Suns Half-giants. (Without having read a single Dark Sun product) *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Ah Gandhi! What a Mensch. And he looked good in a robe too!" -Douglas Wambaugh, Picket Fences. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 08:24:43 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Assume >instead an M1A2 tank. The mage can't even scratch the paint.] > However they CAN cast rock to mud and then reverse it. Just how long does the air in one of those things last? M1a2 has all sorts of goodies but nowhere is there any mention of any magical detections or offensive/defensive capability. Even better get your pet rustmonster to go and give it a kiss. Until all its visible parts are ceramic thats it for your MBT. When I was at uni a GM tried to get us with a sherman that`s where the rustmonster idea came from. It was my mage `YNGA SAEB` who polymorphed an ant into a rustmonster, charmed it and set it at the tank. the rentire party had to defend `Harold` as he was later known from any attacks until we got to the tank. He eventually became party mascot until the accident with ... Well that`s another story. <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 17:26:18 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Strange ... about Karameikos. On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine wrote: > > Hi Mystarans > > > Has someone the AlmanachIII ? > The description of Karameikos history in the geographic entry is somehow > strange : Don't you said Karameikos was a free country ? > They're saying it's a self ruled country but not a free one ! > There're still problem with this country ! Not sure what youre talking about here Marc. Historical note: Just learned that Poland was a Grand Duchy and a protectorate of the French Empire under Napoleon Bonaparte. Thats not exactly medieval though.. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Ah Gandhi! What a Mensch. And he looked good in a robe too!" -Douglas Wambaugh, Picket Fences. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 17:29:08 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Time travel and its effects on clerics, paladins et al On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, paul dooley wrote: > Probably been discussed before but what actuall happens to a cleric, > paladin etc. if theyntravel back in time to before their patron achieved > Immortality? I`ve got a new group who`ve never been to Blackmoor and > this is the first time I`ll have any in the party for the adventures. > IMO they`re buggered until they gain new patrons buts what`s the `canon` > or opinion of the list? Hm..I've never thought of that before. Some options you might want to use.. a) They loose their spells. b) their patron provides them with an artifact that generates spells for them c) their time travelling device creates a link to their own time, through which the Immortal can provide spells back in time. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Ah Gandhi! What a Mensch. And he looked good in a robe too!" -Douglas Wambaugh, Picket Fences. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 17:41:19 +0200 (METDST) From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic On Sun, 6 Sep 1998 23:50:09 -0400 (EDT), SteelAngel wrote: <> - -------------------------- Last time I heard this sentence it was said on a tropical island off the coasts of Costa Rica, by an old man who had this great idea of cloning something from the forgotten past: dinosaurs.. IIRC it didn't go quite as planned.. ;p Anyway, knowing Murphy's Law, you can predict everything, but not the unpredictable.. meaning PCs' actions and a DM's twisted mind.. ;) This means: if you give us a city full of technomancy, don't expect we leave it untouched.. eh eh.. PS: Oards won't malfunction immediately while landing on Mystara and the same goes with any other alien race using technology. The corruption is slow, so maybe they could wreak havoc and even conquer some countries before starting thinking awry and losing mobility with their cybernetic parts.. Something similar to what happened in H.G. Wells's "War of the Worlds". DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:57:30 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Better Living through Fabrication On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, Rob wrote: > well, if u only use D+D spells mages can only, er, flame things... If you use AD&D spells, mages become munchkins. But that's just my opinion. Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:00:46 -0500 (CDT) From: Valerya@webtv.net (Jennifer Favia Guerra) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Sure, Alphatia has/had alchemy, and I understand that "someone playing around with sulphur and graphite" raises the danger of gunpowder discovery, but isn't it also possible that the rules of basic chemistry might work a little different on Mystara than in the RW? I mean, the laws of physics are certainly different--that's why we have magic in the first place. So, what if the basic RW gunpowder formula in Mystara equals just a really potent smokepowder, for example--one which they could use like a teargas (to end a siege, for example). Jenn valerya@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:02:22 -0500 (CDT) From: Valerya@webtv.net (Jennifer Favia Guerra) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Valerias Energy or Matter? Does it matter? True, but an alignment change does not necessarily mean a total personality change :) Jenn valerya@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 12:04:10 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, Rob wrote: > Well, u did say in an earlier post that these guys could make computers... They can, but not using just boards and wiring. Look inside the new computers out there, and you see video card, sound card, fan, processor, motherboard. Look inside a rebuilt technomantic comp, and you see sound card connected to a tube of blue dust, a wand of lightning bolts, the video card, and a magical cooling wind spell, or some other arcana. The whole shabang is very different than a real computer. And I don't use fabricate, so nyeah :) Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:04:44 -0500 (CDT) From: Valerya@webtv.net (Jennifer Favia Guerra) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics and Magical items I limit Alphatian spells to "Alphatians only" as well, plus I have highlighted some of the more utilitarian (and some fun ones too) spells from the Wizard's Spell Compendium series for just Alphatians, just Glantrian secret crafts, etc. Jenn valerya@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 12:14:22 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, Daly wrote: > Alphatia IS MChina :) Don't tell the MOrient people that! Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 12:16:50 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, Daly wrote: > So instead, you are attempting to make a "net-official" scenario where > high technology is restricted for everyone who cares about > "net-official"? WoTI was world shattering and not everyone followed it. Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:20:41 -0500 (CDT) From: Valerya@webtv.net (Jennifer Favia Guerra) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Strange ... about Karameikos. PWA III: "In AC 1006, Stefan karameikos took a bold step by declaring himself no longer a vassal to the thyatian Empire, but a king in his own right." (p 41, "History" section). But I will admit, they did not make it very clear in the "Description" section. Jenn valerya@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 10:14:03 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Strange ... about Karameikos. > They're saying it's a self ruled country but not a free one ! > There're still problem with this country ! > Oh, there are many problems with Karameikos, mostly mental. We don't have time to go into them all here 8-)~ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:27:06 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) > offensive/defensive capability. Even better get your pet rustmonster to > go and give it a kiss. Until all its visible parts are ceramic thats it > for your MBT. > Again, rust attacks won't work. And, if we're talking tech that would be developed in Mystara, then the babbling about no protections against magic attacks are meaningless, because of course such things would be built in. And, once again regarding spells and rust monsters: good luck getting within range. Most spells, spell like attacks, etc. have considerably shorter ranges than the weapons of modern vehicles have. And we haven't even talked about combined arms, etc; we've just talked about things in isolation. So, if you want to not deal with magic/low tech in a vaccum, then we won't deal witn one tank in a vaccumn either. . . . . *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:30:55 -0500 (CDT) From: Valerya@webtv.net (Jennifer Favia Guerra) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Restricting it... I think I see what you are saying, though I do think that it vastly underestimates the power of the human (or demihuman, etc) mind. There is a quote that my husband uses on his email, "Genius is an African who dreams up snow." What that says to me is that no matter how farfetched something is, someone may actually grasp the concept of it anyway. Just because no one else thought "right" enough to grasp relativity before Einstein doesn't mean that HE was incapable of it. IMC, I just make sure that a) they don't find the stuff or b) the stuff doesn't work or is magically trapped, etc. That makes me womder: so many of our technology now works by password or card, etc.--Couldn't some of these artifacts have been set up that way, or bybiometric scan or something, so that they are functional, but just don't work for the PCs? Jenn valerya@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:28:15 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Strange ... about Karameikos. > > Not sure what youre talking about here Marc. > Historical note: Just learned that Poland was a Grand Duchy and a > protectorate of the French Empire under Napoleon Bonaparte. Thats not > exactly medieval though.. > Had the status of a conquered, occupied fief at that point, though. Similar to the puppet states established by Nazi Germany in the region during WWII. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 12:34:46 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Time travel and its effects on clerics, paladins et al Yep, that is pretty much what I do. There is always the chance that some "nice" immortal will realize what is going on and takeover being the cleric's patron for the interim... IMO it depends on whether you want to give the party the additional difficulty of having little to no spells. Also, you may want to consider 1st, 2nd, and maybe even 3rd level spells as coming from faith with or without patron...this gives them a fighting chance at least... paul dooley wrote: > > Probably been discussed before but what actuall happens to a cleric, > paladin etc. if theyntravel back in time to before their patron achieved > Immortality? I`ve got a new group who`ve never been to Blackmoor and > this is the first time I`ll have any in the party for the adventures. > IMO they`re buggered until they gain new patrons buts what`s the `canon` > or opinion of the list? > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 09:40:46 -0700 From: harold@grid.wizards.com (Harold Johnson) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Princess Ark columns Okay, gang, I couple weeks ago there was an inquiry regarding uploading the Princess Ark series of articles from DRAGON Magazine, so we can make them available to others on this list. Here's the response I got when I followed up for us. Harold Johnson writes: > The Mystaran Online group would like to offer to other readers copies of > the Princess Ark articles from DRAGON Magazine written by Bruce Heard. >One guy is willing to scan the articles in for the group so that others >can have ready access to the information. > > What's our policy. Can we give them permission? Thanks for your >attention to this matter. We just had a meeting about this sort of thing. First, they shouldn't reprint anything from any of our products on their website. That's just illegal. And we try not to make any exceptions. In the past, we would take scans of articles and make them available on our site. At this time, Dragon staff isn't interested in posting any more information from old issues online, but, we are working on new ways to support Dragon and Dungeon readers online, and we're not up for adding more old information until those other plans come together. We won't be adding any old Dragon articles for some time. This seems to be a defeat for us at this point. Our current recourse is to appeal to the DRAGON editor staff to encourage the addition of this information online. Or we can discuss and quote short passages from these articles, but we can not upload them ourselves. Sorry. Any alternative ideas? Harold *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 17:35:18 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Better Living through Fabrication >> well, if u only use D+D spells mages can only, er, flame things... > >If you use AD&D spells, mages become munchkins. > >But that's just my opinion. Au contrare. Most D+D spells are actually far more powerful than their AD+D equivalents. (I cant actually think of any that arent as powerful). But almost all D+D spells are basic battle magic, whereas AD+D spell lists have all sorts of esoterica... And it is the esoterica, not the battle magic, which is powerful, so i guess you may be right. OTOH, tho, dont you think that the Fabricate spell should be within the bounds of a mages abilities? Surely there must be applications for magic other than killing things in various interesting and unique ways. I say this, because at the moment I am playing a pacifist, studious mage. And looking in the spell lists, there are very few spells that are not combat oriented, which I consider to be a great pity. Or do you think that it is the mages lot in life to be a mobile howitzer, who is unable to use magic to turn a block of wood into a chair? "It is a matter of cosmic history, that it has always been easier to destroy, than to create." Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:38:32 -0500 (CDT) From: Valerya@webtv.net (Jennifer Favia Guerra) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Time travel and its effects on clerics, paladins et al Good question. My first inclination would be to say "nothing," since I'm sure that Khoronus had travelled back and forth many times (his old and new time machine adventure notwithstanding:), but I don't know if it would be the same for, say, his followers. I would think that an Immortal would be powerful enough (unless they're of really low level) to protect/even stay in contact with their cleric. ...But now I'm going to make myself a hypocrite, because IMC, our clerics travelled back to the time that their Immortal was a mortal. They lost their spells for the duration because of the paradox (actually I just wanted to knock them down a peg or three:) of knowing who their petron was before he WAS that, but they remembed they served him, etc. Jenn valerya@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 09:34:53 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) > Assume >>instead an M1A2 tank. The mage can't even scratch the paint.] >However they CAN cast rock to mud and then reverse it. Just how long >does the air in one of those things last? M1a2 has all sorts of goodies >but nowhere is there any mention of any magical detections or >offensive/defensive capability. Even better get your pet rustmonster to >go and give it a kiss. Until all its visible parts are ceramic thats it >for your MBT. When I was at uni a GM tried to get us with a sherman >that`s where the rustmonster idea came from. It was my mage `YNGA SAEB` >who polymorphed an ant into a rustmonster, charmed it and set it at the >tank. the rentire party had to defend `Harold` as he was later known >from any attacks until we got to the tank. He eventually became party >mascot until the accident with ... Well that`s another story. <;-P Let me see tanks... A quick look at the PHB (2nd ed.) says... Color Spray- can knock the crew out of action for a few rounds at least. Shrink (Reverse Enlarge)- can shrink a 20' tank down to about 2' in size. Soccer anyone? Oh, did I forget to mention that the crew, ammo, and guns inside it were not shrunk- just the tank? Yeah. This works on 1 object- not a bunch of them... Grease- this might be a little lame, but grease the treads, better chances of them slipping. Something tanks are notorious for without the spell... Hold Portal- Half way down the barrel (or so) there is an ejection port. What happens if that can't open to eject a spent shell? Darkness (Reverse Light)- cast directly on the barrel, or viewing port. This may not harm the tank, but makes it a lot safer to approach. Magic Missile- this can take shells right out of the air. Phantasmal Force- the already limited senses of the crew make this spell very potent you can often make much more realistic phantasms as they can't disbelieve because of sound and the like. Sleep- this can incapacitate the crew enough to allow the tank to drop off of a chasm or the like. Unseen servant- The most under-used powerful thing in the game. Have one of these go up and wrap itself around the end of the barrel. when that shell fires... Wall of Fog- you can't hit what you can't see... Isn't that how it goes? Funny thing, all of these are 1st level spells that can be cast by a wizard. What about higher level ones? I'd be much more concerned about a 6-7 hd. creature or character than a tank as a first level wizard. Presuming of course that I understand the tank. Of course if I don't understand a tank- then that means that the tank crew probably doesn't understand fantasy creatures either, and there are a whole lot more things that can be done to the people because of that. Later. Jesse. vanquer@softhome.net ICQ. 8004143 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #606 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, September 8 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 607 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Time travel and its effects on clerics, paladinset al Re: [MYSTARA] - Davinian Deserts Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics and Magical items Re: [MYSTARA] - Princess Ark columns Re: [MYSTARA] - Time travel and its effects on clerics, paladins etc Re: [MYSTARA] - AlphChina? Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Princess Ark columns Re: [MYSTARA] - Terrorists. Re: [MYSTARA] - Princess Ark columns Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) RE: [MYSTARA] - AlphChina? Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Question Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Answer Re: [MYSTARA] - AlphChina? RE: [MYSTARA] - AlphChina? Re: [MYSTARA] - Terrorists. Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Question ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 17:38:36 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Time travel and its effects on clerics, paladinset al - ----- > Probably been discussed before but what actuall happens to a cleric, > paladin etc. if theyntravel back in time to before their patron achieved > Immortality? I`ve got a new group who`ve never been to Blackmoor and > this is the first time I`ll have any in the party for the adventures. > IMO they`re buggered until they gain new patrons buts what`s the `canon` > or opinion of the list? I used the Spelljammer technique - a similar deity, with similar goals, grants the spells. There was a priest of Khoronus in the party who went back in time to do the Temple of the Frog adventure. IMC Khoronus was not around at that time, but Verthandi was, and he granted the cleric his spells instead. Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:42:53 -0500 (CDT) From: Valerya@webtv.net (Jennifer Favia Guerra) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Davinian Deserts Plural of "oasis" is "oases," pronouned "oh-AY-sees." Jenn valerya@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 17:41:39 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics and Magical items >I limit Alphatian spells to "Alphatians only" as well, plus I have >highlighted some of the more utilitarian (and some fun ones too) spells >from the Wizard's Spell Compendium series for just Alphatians, just >Glantrian secret crafts, etc. Thats a good move, IMO. Mages are just crying out for individuality, something other than being a mighty wizard known as Tim... And throwing blue fireballs and purple magic missiles may indeed go so far, but not far enough IMHO... The more spells the merrier! But more variety = harder mage. So limit the variety by nation, or magical academy, and the mages power is kept limited, while each mage from each country gets a bit of true individuality in spellcasting. Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 12:50:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Princess Ark columns >We just had a meeting about this sort of thing. > >First, they shouldn't reprint anything from any of our products on their >website. That's just illegal. And we try not to make any exceptions. > It should be stated very clearly that I have absolutely NO intentions of posting the Princess Ark information to a website. It is ONLY for members of the mailing list who specifically ask me for it, to be e-mailed directly to those people. I knew going in that putting it up for general availability would be impossible and would violate TSR's copyrights. > This seems to be a defeat for us at this point. Our current recourse is >to appeal to the DRAGON editor staff to encourage the addition of this >information online. Or we can discuss and quote short passages from these >articles, but we can not upload them ourselves. Sorry. > > Any alternative ideas? > Well, since Bruce Heard wrote the articles, perhaps he could get Dragon's staff to permit this. Again, this isn't a general availability situation; it's only for listmembers who E-mailed me directly to ask for it. Oh, and I didn't scan the articles, I typed them manually. I don't have a scanner. So there was real effort involved in this project (not as much as Bruce, of course, but still...) Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 19:19:56 +0200 (METDST) From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Time travel and its effects on clerics, paladins etc On Tue, 08 Sep 1998 07:49:55 PDT, Paul Dooley wrote: <> Correct. That's what happened to my PC clerics when they traveled back in time while playing CM6. There was a priest of Thor and he couldn't cast his spells in the first time period (In the Beginning) which was about 5,000 years in the past, some 2,000 years prior Thor's ascension to Immortality IIRC. The same went with another Paladin of Petra, but the funniest thing is that Thor's priest regained his spells before Petra's paladin, and that's because of the different timeframes when the two Immortals achieved immortality. So (IIRC again) during the second adventure (Iron & Steel) the priest of Thor could cast his spells, while the Paladin had to wait until the third or fourth adventure to cast them once again.. It's logical: no Immortal in the past to give you your spells, thus NO spells available.. Same thing happened IMC when the PCs went to another dimension where their immortals couldn't reach them (an alternate earth based on HP Lovecraft's stories, where they met the infamous Joseph Curwen, visited Innsmouth and ultimately brought Curwen to Mystara...) DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 12:18:09 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AlphChina? > > > Alphatia IS MChina :) > > Don't tell the MOrient people that! > Just curious as to why people think Alphatia is China. I've always been under the impression that it was inspired by Plato's Republic; the Atlantis stuff. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 12:25:32 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) > > Color Spray- can knock the crew out of action for a few rounds at least. > If you can get through the flash protection, and also regarding all this other stuff, if you can get in range without getting chewed up. A "Mystaran" M1A2 tank would probably have some magical protections (fill in the blanks), and shoot "enhanced munitions", obviating your "protection from normal missiles" excuses. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:06:13 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Princess Ark columns Didn't one guy type out the whole articles himself? If so, how illegal is that? I know scans are a bit touchy, but a clean rewrite? Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:39:05 EDT From: Wassellj@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Terrorists. In a message dated 07/09/98 17:17:55, you write: << Absolutely right, 100 percent. Never underestimate the power of the populace, especially when it is demanding justice--I think Louis XVI learned that the hard way :-) >> You are mistaking a popular revolution with what in fact happened - the toppling of one political class by another upcoming political class. That time in history you can see a well educated, influential and increasingly wealthy professional middle-class, taking on the aristocracy. Similarly at the same time we saw a professional middle-class, who sought more political power take on their colonial overlords in the developing United States. They sought power for themselves not the general populace. Do not place too much emphasis on the power of the populace. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 11:03:18 -0700 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Princess Ark columns Harold: > I couple weeks ago there was an inquiry regarding uploading the Princess >Ark series of articles from DRAGON Magazine, so we can make them available >to others on this list. Here's the response I got when I followed up for >us. [...snippage...] One comment: The Princess Arc Columns weren't going to be "uploaded" anywhere. Glen Sprig who typed them into one big file was asking if he could share the resulting file with those few of us who had specifically asked if he would share it with us. Thus it would not be made 'generally available' to anyone and everyone via the web, this mailing list, or any other internet means. Would this fact make any difference to their response? Essentially we are talking about a small, decidedly non-profit sharing of compiled information between a limited number of individuals. And why am I writing and asking this? Mainly because I'm one of the 'small number of individuals" who was interested in acquiring the data! I don't own any of the Dragon magazines that contain the Princes Ark files, though I do own CoM. As a result, if Glen isn't allowed to share his compilation with those of us who have asked about it, many will have no other means of acquiring this 'cannon' source of information about the applicable geographic areas of Mystara. Well that's all for now, Jenni A. M. Merrifield - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs strawberry@jamm.com <==> http://www.jamm.com/ <------------------------------------------------------------------> God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. Then God started to think: "I should create things I *like*!" And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:03:02 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) >> Color Spray- can knock the crew out of action for a few rounds at least. >If you can get through the flash protection, and also regarding all this >other stuff, if you can get in range without getting chewed up. > A "Mystaran" M1A2 tank would probably have some magical protections (fill >in the blanks), and shoot "enhanced munitions", obviating your "protection >from normal missiles" excuses. You're absolutely correct on the flash protection- my bad. However, getting close should not be a problem when you take invisibility and the jump spell into account. Also, visibility from a tank is severely limited allowing for sneak approaches to be much more available. This is why tanks are usually "supported" by infantry- to keep individuals away from it... A Mystaran tank, although able to carry magical items and having spells on it- maybe even being a magical item itself- would have a severe limitation that today's tanks don't... AC -10 max. and HP. This would make it so that any character with a good magic weapon could actually penetrate the hull given time... I always consider advanced munitions to be a sort of "magic" so that prot. fr. magical missiles would be a necessity to stop them, but that's a judgement call per the DM I think. Either way though, one or the other spell would do the trick. Actually, I have the "Mystaran M1A2" IMC. Yep. It's called a Juggernaut from module X4... Of course there are some modifications that I had to make for it compare in potency to what it should- but not a lot. Later. Jesse. vanquer@softhome.net ICQ. 8004143 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 20:15:42 +0200 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?=" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - AlphChina? > > > Just curious as to why people think Alphatia is China. I've always been > under the impression that it was inspired by Plato's Republic; the Atlantis > stuff. > I think it is for the saying in DotE that Ochaleans (clearly Orient-inspired) are related to Alphatians. In fact, I have always seen Alphatians akin to Sumerians-Babylonians: they started a urban civilization in Mystara out of nothing (as a non sophisticated version of history says Sumerians to have); they only had contact with Nithians (Egyptians), whom they considered as equals; thy battled the "Western" (Thyatis), first as masters, later as equals (think of the Greeks and the Persian Darius); they have a Lammasu in their banner; the Lammasu is the Mesopotamian symbol of supernatural powers (magic in Alphatia) making themselves manifest upon Earth. taking Mesopotamia in a broad sense, from Assyria to Persia, and thinking of those historically-unuseful but RPG interesting visions of Sumerians coming from the space and learning how to make ziggurats is quite interesting. Nevertheless, the Platonic point is also a good one: those with knowledge (MUs) govern and those without work and serve is quite nice, too. Remember, there are not one-on-one RW-Mystara transfers! Andrés *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:22:07 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) > A Mystaran tank, although able to carry magical items and having spells on > it- > maybe even being a magical item itself- would have a severe limitation that > today's > tanks don't... AC -10 max. and HP. This would make it so that any character > with a > good magic weapon could actually penetrate the hull given time... > Well, using the D&D rules, it would be -20 max, but you're still correct. > Actually, I have the "Mystaran M1A2" IMC. Yep. It's called a Juggernaut from > module > X4... Of course there are some modifications that I had to make for it > compare in > potency to what it should- but not a lot. > Yep, well, I have seen that, I have X4, and its not quite the same. Anyhow, what we're getting into now is a "technomagical item", which is different from the Juggernaut in many respects. Oh, and I did mention the use of combined arms, once folks mentioned non-tech Mystaran "combined arms" approaches, you of course have to take into account how technoligical, and MagiTech forces, would use combined arms as well. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:48:13 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology/Technomancy/Magic (LONG!) >> A Mystaran tank, although able to carry magical items and having spells >>on it- maybe even being a magical item itself- would have a severe limitation >>that today's tanks don't... AC -10 max. and HP. This would make it so that any >>character with a good magic weapon could actually penetrate the hull given time... >Well, using the D&D rules, it would be -20 max, but you're still correct. Doh. I did it again. I meant to say in ADD. Oh well, point made anyway I guess. >Yep, well, I have seen that, I have X4, and its not quite the same. Anyhow, >what we're getting into now is a "technomagical item", which is different >from the Juggernaut in many respects. Agreed. I just prefer to use a Juggernaut for my MBT because it still holds to the "flavor" of Mystara where the Abrams (M1 series) doesn't. > Oh, and I did mention the use of combined arms, once folks mentioned >non-tech Mystaran "combined arms" approaches, you of course have to take >into account how technoligical, and MagiTech forces, would use combined >arms as well. I must have missed this part. Admittedly, I just jumped into the middle of this thread. Something that I try not to do. Later. Jesse. vanquer@softhome.net ICQ. 8004143 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:50:29 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Question Hey all, I was just wondering if someone could answer me this... I noticed, recently, that Blackmoor appears both in Mystara and on Greyhawk. What is the reasoning behind this? Are they the same Blackmoor, or similar ones? What kinds of Technology are we talking about with these two civilizations? Was module S3 Expedition to the Barrier Peaks based on Blackmoor at all? Thanks. Jesse. vanquer@softhome.net ICQ. 8004143 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 14:15:34 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Answer > > I noticed, recently, that Blackmoor appears both in Mystara and on Greyhawk. > What is the reasoning behind this? > Are they the same Blackmoor, or similar ones? > They're not really the same, though they're somewhat similar. You'll also note the presence of a "Duchy of Tehn" in Greyhawk, which is the "Duchy of Ten", and the Great Kingdom is analogous to the Thonian Empire. Point/reasoning behind this is that both are a grafting of D. Arneson's campaign world onto TSRs pubs (Judges Guild did this with their world, too), with a greater or lesser degree of his involvement (I don't think Arneson was directly involved with Greyhawk, but he was with the Judges Guild product, and also with the Mystaran Blackmoor). > What kinds of Technology are we talking about with these two civilizations? > Well, Greyhawk's Blackmoor is kind of an unknown (and unknowable) civilization up by the ice. Not many folks get through Iuz & the Nomads to scout it out, so no one really knows what their like (translation: not much "canon" on the Greyhawk Blackmoor). Mystaran Blackmoor became a high tech civ. due to an accidental "Bootstrap" operation conducted by members of the Galactic Federation who got marooned on Mystara. The Blackmoorians became quite advanced, but had a major "oops" at one point, so. In general, lots of what Blackmoor actually developed is left somewhat vague, though you can look at the City of the Gods module for what the G-Fed had (and B-Moor stuff would be based on), and also Thouse Wacky Elves (tm) in the Hollow World. > Was module S3 Expedition to the Barrier Peaks based on Blackmoor at all? > No, the Expedition to the Barrier Peaks had nothing to do with Blackmoor, though if you wanted to you might assume that the ship that crashed in the Peaks was sent by the same G-Fed (or a compeditor). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 14:29:54 -0500 (CDT) From: Valerya@webtv.net (Jennifer Favia Guerra) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AlphChina? - --WebTV-Mail-789751568-417 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit I think it was inspired by the Atlantis stuff, but I just can't ignore that the symbology and the naming patterns are Babylonian. (China????????????) Jenn valerya@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ - --WebTV-Mail-789751568-417 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Message/RFC822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Received: from mailsorter-102.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-102.iap.bryant.webtv.net [207.79.35.92]) by postoffice-221.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/po.gso.24Feb98) with ESMTP id KAA02154; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 10:52:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (Phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM [206.66.87.5]) by mailsorter-102.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.graham.14Aug97) with ESMTP id KAA28523; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 10:52:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA07685; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:22:15 -0400 Received: by lists.MPGN.COM (bulk_mailer v1.5); Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:22:03 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA07647 for mystara-l-outgoing; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:21:54 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@lists.MPGN.COM using -f Received: from Mithril.MPGN.COM (Mithril.MPGN.COM [206.66.87.8]) by phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA07628 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:21:34 -0400 Received: from m4.sprynet.com (m4.sprynet.com [165.121.2.96]) by Mithril.MPGN.COM (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id NAA24498 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:21:33 -0400 Received: from oemcomputer (ad41-236.arl.compuserve.com [199.174.159.236]) by m4.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA19966 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 10:19:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199809081719.KAA19966@m4.sprynet.com> From: "James Ruhland" To: Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AlphChina? Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 12:18:09 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-mystara-l@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Reply-To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM > > > Alphatia IS MChina :) > > Don't tell the MOrient people that! > Just curious as to why people think Alphatia is China. I've always been under the impression that it was inspired by Plato's Republic; the Atlantis stuff. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. - --WebTV-Mail-789751568-417-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 14:33:23 -0500 (CDT) From: Valerya@webtv.net (Jennifer Favia Guerra) Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - AlphChina? Bravo--and I thought I was the only one!! :-)~ Jenn valerya@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 14:35:32 -0500 (CDT) From: Valerya@webtv.net (Jennifer Favia Guerra) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Terrorists. - --WebTV-Mail-1436724288-283 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit All right, then; let's talk about popular revolt...but the results are still the same--the people of an MRealm would never stand for such things... Jenn valerya@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ - --WebTV-Mail-1436724288-283 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Message/RFC822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Received: from mailsorter-101.iap.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-101.iap.bryant.webtv.net [207.79.35.91]) by postoffice-222.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/po.gso.24Feb98) with ESMTP id MAA08379; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 12:11:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (Phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM [206.66.87.5]) by mailsorter-101.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.graham.14Aug97) with ESMTP id MAA06915; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 12:11:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA08448; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:40:44 -0400 Received: by lists.MPGN.COM (bulk_mailer v1.5); Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:40:01 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA08384 for mystara-l-outgoing; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:39:54 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@lists.MPGN.COM using -f Received: from Mithril.MPGN.COM (Mithril.MPGN.COM [206.66.87.8]) by phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA08371 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:39:42 -0400 Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by Mithril.MPGN.COM (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id NAA24628 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:39:41 -0400 From: Wassellj@aol.com Received: from Wassellj@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.1) id HHVKa12640 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:39:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:39:05 EDT To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Terrorists. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows sub 175 Sender: owner-mystara-l@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Reply-To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM In a message dated 07/09/98 17:17:55, you write: << Absolutely right, 100 percent. Never underestimate the power of the populace, especially when it is demanding justice--I think Louis XVI learned that the hard way :-) >> You are mistaking a popular revolution with what in fact happened - the toppling of one political class by another upcoming political class. That time in history you can see a well educated, influential and increasingly wealthy professional middle-class, taking on the aristocracy. Similarly at the same time we saw a professional middle-class, who sought more political power take on their colonial overlords in the developing United States. They sought power for themselves not the general populace. Do not place too much emphasis on the power of the populace. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. - --WebTV-Mail-1436724288-283-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 14:36:49 -0500 (CDT) From: Valerya@webtv.net (Jennifer Favia Guerra) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Question - --WebTV-Mail-256277871-285 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Blackmoor started out on both Greyhawk and KW. Maybe someone knows whether it was removed from Greyhawk later...? Jenn valerya@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ - --WebTV-Mail-256277871-285 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Message/RFC822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Received: from mailsorter-102.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-102.iap.bryant.webtv.net [207.79.35.92]) by postoffice-222.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/po.gso.24Feb98) with ESMTP id MAA09983; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 12:24:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (Phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM [206.66.87.5]) by mailsorter-102.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.graham.14Aug97) with ESMTP id MAA05756; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 12:24:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA11276; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 14:57:50 -0400 Received: by lists.MPGN.COM (bulk_mailer v1.5); Tue, 8 Sep 1998 14:57:47 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA11244 for mystara-l-outgoing; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 14:57:38 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@lists.MPGN.COM using -f Received: from Mithril.MPGN.COM (Mithril.MPGN.COM [206.66.87.8]) by phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA11234 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 14:57:28 -0400 Received: from softhome.net (waltz.SoftHome.net [204.144.231.7]) by Mithril.MPGN.COM (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id OAA25249 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 14:57:26 -0400 Received: (qmail 6651 invoked by uid 417); 8 Sep 1998 19:15:40 -0000 Received: from 1cust72.tnt7.sea1.da.uu.net (HELO jesse) (208.253.77.72) by pop0.softhome.net with SMTP; 8 Sep 1998 19:15:40 -0000 Message-ID: <004c01bddb59$8e2c92a0$484dfdd0@jesse> From: "Jesse LaBranche" To: Subject: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Question Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:50:29 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-mystara-l@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Reply-To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM Hey all, I was just wondering if someone could answer me this... I noticed, recently, that Blackmoor appears both in Mystara and on Greyhawk. What is the reasoning behind this? Are they the same Blackmoor, or similar ones? What kinds of Technology are we talking about with these two civilizations? Was module S3 Expedition to the Barrier Peaks based on Blackmoor at all? Thanks. Jesse. vanquer@softhome.net ICQ. 8004143 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. - --WebTV-Mail-256277871-285-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #607 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message.