mystara-digest Sunday, November 15 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 710 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Loki/Bozdogan Re: [MYSTARA] - Hule overall Re: [MYSTARA] - Hule overall Re: [MYSTARA] - Hule overall Re: [MYSTARA] - Loki/Bozdogan Re: [MYSTARA] - Hule overall Re: [MYSTARA] - The Quest Chapter 4 Re: [MYSTARA] - Loki/Bozdogan Re: [MYSTARA] - The Quest Chapter 4 Re: [MYSTARA] - Loki/Bozdogan Alfheim (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Loki/Bozdogan) Re: [MYSTARA] - Loki/Bozdogan Re: [MYSTARA] - Loki/Bozdogan Re: [MYSTARA] - Loki/Bozdogan Re: Alfheim (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Loki/Bozdogan) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 22:23:03 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Loki/Bozdogan >Here's another fine example of RL and gaming intersecting, which I just >read. IMO, it illustrates how bureocratic "rationalization" can easily >induce chaos. > I know Rob in particular will appreciate this one: Lol *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 16:52:13 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Hule overall > > I understand what you're saying; in fact, I think that > we are both addressing the same point. I don't want to > get into a long discussion on morality or ethical > philosophies, > Ok, and I see what you're saying with regard to Hule. But I just couldn't bring myself to let the original "everything is relative" remark pass without commenting on it. However, I won't anymore. Regarding Hule specifically, and your comments on it, I do both understand and encourage the effort to put more complexity and ambiguity into it. Even from my perspective, their can be no such thing as a "moral quandary" if all the answers are easy ones, and if the "good" and "evil" nations are depicted in flat, cardboard-cut-out fashion with the designated villians having no redeeming qualities, etc. However, I *do* think it is not nessisary to reduce everything to a situation of moral relativism. It is hard to take seriously a situation where all the choices are obvious ones (support Wendar, oppose Denagoth, etc.), and no thought need be given to the choice. But it is equally unprovocative to create a situation where every choice is equally valid, every perspective and position equally moral or immoral, dependant only upon subjective opinion. That would make the "smedley treatment" (don't ask. Ok, do ask. See below) just one action among a diverse array of equally acceptable activities. So IMO, what should be done is create a situation where their are some laudatory/attractive aspects to Hulean society and government (I.E. for example, perhaps the priesthood provides free education to all; of course propagandistic, but at least most people can read and write, etc. Perhaps there are government/priesthood run/supported charitable institutions, "welfare" or something similar, that guarantees no one starves. Hosadus might institute such things to make living in Hule more attractive to commoners, thus facilitating an expansionist policy, but the PCs may find themselves admiring this "enlightened social policy," etc.) You can also give Hule a "cassus beli" for their expansionism aimed at Darokin (perhaps Darokinian traders in Hule supported a rebellion, escaped, and were unpunished by Darokin. Or Darokin is subverting Hule's economy & society, etc.) By such methods it is possible to infuse the kind of ambiguity you desire into Hule (or any other nation) without reducing everything to a matter of (mere) subjective opinion, which, as I said, IMO renders the whole question as meaningless as the "cartoon cut-out" end of the spectrum. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 15:34:54 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Hule overall James wrote: > So IMO, what should be done is create a situation where their are some >laudatory/attractive aspects to Hulean society and government (I.E. for >example, perhaps the priesthood provides free education to all; of course >propagandistic, but at least most people can read and write, etc. Perhaps >there are government/priesthood run/supported charitable institutions, >"welfare" or something similar, that guarantees no one starves. Hosadus >might institute such things to make living in Hule more attractive to >commoners, thus facilitating an expansionist policy, but the PCs may find >themselves admiring this "enlightened social policy," etc.) Actually, I had already intended something similar to this. Jenn ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 17:45:02 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Hule overall > > Actually, I had already intended something similar to this. > Well, darn. That leaves us with nothing to argue about, then. I may dry up and blow away. . . . *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 19:00:34 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Loki/Bozdogan A lot to reply to and much has been said so I'm just replying to a few here and there :) Jennifer Favia wrote: > > 1.) I've been researching Loki in Norse myth, and I'm > surprised at his neutrality. M-Loki seems equally as > neutral, more like a Trickster figure than evil. > Bozdogan, OTOH, is very much like the tenth-century > perceptions of Loki via the early Christian > tradition--devious, nasty, and altogether not a nice > guy. I was wondering if anyone had an opinion: Is there > a degree of eastern (Brun) interpretation going on here > in the perception of Bozdogan vs. Loki, or are we > looking at an Immortal with a serious split > personality? I've actually have split them in a way. Ilneval is the lawful side and Bozdogan is the chaotic side. The name Loki isn't used by me since I wanted a clear separation between names of Immortals and well known gods. In effect, making these their own unique powers without recalling the gods they are based on to mind. Mystara's Loki doesn't match THE Loki. But then most of the Mystara Immortals don't fit with their mythological name sakes. > 2.) I'm sure that most of you are familiar with James > Mishler's Temple of Chaos pantheon. I like the idea of > a Hulean pantheon, especially since we know that > Bozdogan is only the head of the Immortals worshipped > in Hule. But I dislike the "Chaos" angle...while the > Hulean doctrine might be essentially CN, the government > and social systems run toward LE. What is your take on > this discrepancy? I think the lawfulness of Hule could be looked at several angles. Yes, its structured, making it seem lawful but how that structure is maintain is probably where the chaotic aspect is found. One thing I've used is the head of government is chaotic doesn't mean that is translated into a chaotic government. If the lawful government spreads chaos within and without, then the country is chaotic. James Ruhland wrote: > > If you use "lawful" institutions to advance "chaotic" aims, are you lawful, > chaotic, or neutral? I'd say chaotic. The means matters less than the end result with chaos (or evil). Rob wrote: > > Well, I agree with you 99% here. I dislike the drow intensely, because > their society beliefs just do not hang together with their individual > beliefs. I suppose Lolth forcibly makes them live that way, but thats just > a cheap way out IMHO. I think it was Siege of Darkness that showed how Lolth maintains the chaotic structure of the drow. Benrae followed her commands completely and was destroyed. Everything up to that point was leading to chaos and when Matron Benrae was killed (as Lolth knew would happen), it pushed everything over the edge. They'll just rebuild their structure society to have the same thing happen again and again. Jennifer Favia wrote: > > I really like this idea; I can definitely see how chaos > can arise out of the lawful intentions of a > "super-bureaucracy." Do you think though, that a > religious bureaucracy would operate differently than a > civil bureaucracy? I would imagine that the actions of > the system would rely upon religious texts, etc. For > example, a holy text says that taxes were collected at > a certain time, so taxes always are collected at the > time, etc. Well, I think the Holy Bible is a brilliant chaotic book. Just look at all the destruction, guidance, death, salvation, etc. that has come out of it. Each verse taken from it says something very plain language but taken as a whole, it seems to be very open to interpretation. I think people will admit that it is meant as a lawful text and the chaos that arises from it is from bad interpretations. But its not easy to say which way is exactly the correct way of seeing it. So, chaos ensues. - -- Tim This has been a Galwylin® Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 17:56:04 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Hule overall >> Actually, I had already intended something similar to this. >> >Well, darn. That leaves us with nothing to argue about, then. > >I may dry up and blow away. . . . :-) ...Well, we can always think of something, I'm sure...politics? religion? top 10 reasons Stefan is an idiot? (oh, wait, I think you agree with me here, sorry;-) Ahhh, I know...Thincol. <---No, seriously, *just kidding*...I don't want to become your target (in Jamuga's absence, of course!) 8-)~ Jenn ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 20:22:18 -0500 From: "DJ Sahlas" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Quest Chapter 4 This story is just the kind of thing I like to see on the list. The role of a knight in Karameikos is particularly well done (throwing in the court lord and the behavior of the innkeeper tells us a lot about what it means to be a knight of the Order of the Griffon). Ludwig is characterized in as flattering a manner as ever. Good work, Glen (keep it up!) Jim Sahlas *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 00:04:04 -0500 From: Andrew Toth Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Loki/Bozdogan At 10:46 AM 11/14/98 PST, you wrote: > > >Andre wrote: > >>there would be at least as many moral systems >>as gods, probably more as they assume more than one names or >philosophies. > >>http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/moral.html >> >>Any comments will be very welcome. > >This is a very interesting idea, Andre, and one which makes A LOT of >sense. We have often discussed here the notion that "alignment" (i.e., >morality) is relative, and that a priest of Thanatos seeking destruction >would probably see himself as doing "good." > Well, he may see himself as doing good.. Well let me define it in this way. Good-Someone who, on regular basis, takes actions that benefit someone else more than himself. Neutral-Someone whos actions benefit another, but benefits himself about equally as well. Evil-Someone whos actions tend to benefit himself more than others. A priest of Thanatos, may see himself as good, but his actions cause harm, making him evil. It doesn't really matter what the priest thinks, by my definitions he's evil. Frankly, by this definition, even Immortals are subject to alignment so just because one tells you to do something, does not automatically make it a good act. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 00:08:14 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Quest Chapter 4 At 08:22 PM 11/14/98 -0500, you wrote: > This story is just the kind of thing I like to see on the list. The >role of a knight in Karameikos is particularly well done (throwing in the >court lord and the behavior of the innkeeper tells us a lot about what it >means to be a knight of the Order of the Griffon). Ludwig is characterized >in as flattering a manner as ever. > > Good work, Glen (keep it up!) > Gee, I'm blushing... I'm glad you like my portrayal of Alexius, since Alexius is me! I played him a long time ago, and he's an NPC-in-waiting (if I can get a campaign going again). Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 21:42:00 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Loki/Bozdogan Andrew wrote: >Frankly, by this definition, even Immortals are subject to alignment so just >because one tells you to do something, does not automatically make it a good >act. But I believe that the point was not to clarify alignment, but to discuss moral relativism as an _alternate_ morality. But, so far as absolutes go, your definition is very clear. Jenn ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 07:29:13 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Alfheim (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Loki/Bozdogan) In a message dated 1998-11-14 07:13:33 Eastern Standard Time, rmunch@easynet.co.uk writes: > I was impressed by the Alfheim gaz on the other hand, that seems very much > to be a chaotic society. It certainly stands out from all the other elven > realms (Compare Alfheim to Evermeet and ask yourself which is more > chaotic...). > > So give TSR a break - Alfheim at least is chaotic :) I am not sure that Alfheim is such a good example -- after all, Mystara is the one D&D world where Elves are NOT always depicted as chaotic. So if Alfheim is chaotic as you say (a point I do not dispute), then it does not reflect the alignments of its rulers or inhabitants. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 07:29:20 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Loki/Bozdogan In a message dated 1998-11-14 14:46:38 Eastern Standard Time, thalaric1@hotmail.com writes: > This also > keeps the "order" of Hule in its chaotic state because > if all problematic people were "take care of" by the > "system" you then begin to have a system that weeds out those that may > cause havoc to the "order" and what is > Hule without a little havoc? I didn't mean to say that the system weeded out all those who might cause havoc -- just those who weren't clever enough to seem "harmless" to their superiors. Obviously, a certain amount of deception is necessary for any ambitious Hulean to pull off this pretense.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 07:29:18 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Loki/Bozdogan In a message dated 1998-11-14 13:52:18 Eastern Standard Time, valerya@hotmail.com writes: > It's an interesting angle, but I don't think that it > can apply across the board. I can definitely see it > applying to those int he government--it's a good way to > keep them from leaving the service of Great Hule. But > as for the common person who does nothing more than > milk his goats, there's just nothing here. I don't know about that -- my theory about excessive and contradictory laws may indeed apply to commoners. I would assume that these laws are used to strike proper fear into the commoners when officials must deal with them for such purposes as tax collection. After all, if the tax collecter can prove that the law entitles him to a tax of 150% of the value of a farmer's property, he can proclaim how generous he is being when he takes only 50%. And of course the farmer would know better than to complain about being excessively taxed.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 18:16:22 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Loki/Bozdogan At 10.32 14/11/98 PST, you wrote: >I've remarked on the similarities, as well, and I even >think (IIRC) that someone else is developing Hule along >1984 lines. That is me, Marco and another Italian guy. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 22:38:59 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: Alfheim (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Loki/Bozdogan) >> So give TSR a break - Alfheim at least is chaotic :) > >I am not sure that Alfheim is such a good example -- after all, Mystara is the >one D&D world where Elves are NOT always depicted as chaotic. So if >Alfheim is chaotic as you say (a point I do not dispute), then it does not >reflect the alignments of its rulers or inhabitants. Well, I think the stereotypical Grey Elf from the Complete Elf is pretty lawful (Silvanesti?), conservative, resistant to change, longstanding traditions etc, so I dont think I agree with the first point. Mystaran elves seem like a pretty happy go lucky lot really, with a Live and Let Live attitude about life. The King of Alfheim certainly seems like the sort of guy who takes life as it comes, and i think the majority of his subjects do as well. The Clanmasters seem more lawful, but then these are the 800+ year old elves who are supposed to be sensible (so, maybe a couple of dozen elves in Alfheim are lawful, it leaves a lot who aren't :). Other elven clans we either dont know much about (Wendar) or they live quite happy in proximity to humans (Calarii), so maybe they have an excuse not to be so chaotic... Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #710 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, November 17 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 711 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Loki/Bozdogan Re: [MYSTARA] - Loki/Bozdogan [MYSTARA] - Magian Fire Worshippers [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Almanac AC 1015 supplement : Hollow World Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Almanac AC 1015 supplement : Hollow World Re: [MYSTARA] - Magian Fire Worshippers Re: [MYSTARA] - Loki/Bozdogan Re: [MYSTARA] - Loki/Bozdogan ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 22:51:00 -0500 From: Andrew Toth Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Loki/Bozdogan >Good-Someone who, on regular basis, takes actions that benefit someone else > more than himself. > >Neutral-Someone whos actions benefit another, but benefits himself about >equally as well. > >Evil-Someone whos actions tend to benefit himself more than others. > Hate to respond to my own posts. But I did last night, and even though I something was wrong with this, I wasn't sure what. So the revision. Good- Someone who, on a regular basis, takes actions that benefit someone else more than himself with more frequency than actions that harm others. Neutral - Someone whos actions tend to benefit himself, but don't hurt anyone else, with about even 'good || evil' actions. Evil - Someone whos actions on a regular basis harm others more than benefit others. Tbat about sums up the revisions. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 20:46:54 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Loki/Bozdogan >That about sums up the revisions. That sounds a *lot* more workable, Andrew. Jenn ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 15:41:05 +0100 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Magian Fire Worshippers Sharon Dornhoff asked: <> Okay, from the info I gathered in M5 and GAZ2, the MFW were an important group of mages and priests who, as the name implies, worshipped Fire, Energy and anything related to fire as the purest form of life. They were so dedicated in their beliefs that their ultimate goal was to turn everything into a fiery union of beings made of Energy. From this view, it is clear that the main patron of this well known and respected sect was Rathanos. This is what I have elaborated so far: During the early days of Nithia, these worshippers took the name of their meeting place, the Shrine of Magian, as their own name: hence they became known throughout the empire as the Magian Fire Worshippers (some rumors tell their name derives from their first Fiery Herald, who was named Magian, but no sources confirm this). After only a century from the foundation, the sect had disciples and acolytes in all the provinces of the ever-growing empire of Nithia, and the Pharaoh himself, the great Nethekames II, officially invited the Fiery Herald into his personal entourage of Councillors. The MFW were then absorbed into the Divine Temple of Rathanos, and later called the Crimson Order of Magian. The Magians were priests and wizards with incredible powers and an innate affinity for the arcane arts, and many lesser nobles and rich courtisans desperately wanted to join their order or to gain their friendship to share some of their incredible mastery over the elements. In particular, the Magian philosophy seemed to exercise an incredible attraction in the middle castes, who saw the opportunity of reaching an upper state of existance as their ultimate revenge on those who ruled over them without real merits. The great princes and priests didn't like this, of course, and the lower populace was simply too far from these dreams and too pressed by daily matters to even pay attention to the promises of the Magians. However, since they served the Pharaoh well and never seemed to threaten the established hierarchy, they were tolerated and even feared. Troubles started when Nithia began to be influenced by the dark whispers of Thanatos and Ranivorus. However, the two allies did not take part in the corruption of the Magians, as most sages think. This time one obscure Immortal was to be blamed, one so old that few scrolls still bear its name today: Corona. She inspired their chiefs to think the unthinkable, to wish the unwishable and to want the impossible, thus pushing them too far down the line and feeding their craziest drives and instincts. They soon became obsessed with the idea to realize their Fiery Paradise on earth, and began to sacrifice living beings by turning them into human torches. Their experiments were some of the oddest and most incredible Nithia did ever see (and for this reason they were often conducted in secrecy): cross-breeding of humans and fire elementals, polymorphing living beings into energy, creating human beings capable of breathing fire and with lava as blood. Finally their madness got over the edge, and during the final stages of Nithia's corruption, they helped Pharaoh Taphose to subjugate the rebelling princes by unleashing their ultimate spell (the Crimson Dawn) on one of the Southern Duchies, hoping that it would have changed the inhabitants of the region into energy beings loyal to their creators. The result was the complete annihilation of life in the area of the experiment, who burst in flames and burnt for more than a week long. >From that day, the Magian Fire Worshippers' name inspired only awe and terror in all those who heard it. Nowadays, the MFW still live in Ylaruam, and still seek the knowledge to turn matter into energy. However, their methods are not really "orthodox" by wizard's standards, and they are considered lawless by the Emirates because of their association with Fire, extinguisher of Water (the most precious element in Ylaruam) and destroyer of Life. Some also exist in Thothia, although the branch living here is much more sensible and tolerated. I hope it'll prove useful.. <> I never thought of the MFW as related in any ways to Zoroaster.. DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 07:36:17 PST From: "Joshuan Gallidox Publishing" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Almanac AC 1015 supplement : Hollow World "Senkha lost a battle against the voices in her head today, as they ordered her to kill Ramose where he stood." Dear Reader At last the events for the whole Hollow World that exists beneath our feet are ready to be unveiled to you! With almost one year late, Joshuan Gallidox Publishing is proud to finally reveal what happened in the year AC 1015 in the Hollow World. The Hollow World has not been without its own share of events! Discover in this supplement to the Mystaran Almanac AC 1015 what sort of events rocked this normally calm, unchanging world. Learn about heroes and villains, kings and rebel leaders, that make the world move and be the place we love to be living in - or within. This supplement will be released in two version. The first one is as a special edition to the MML, split into twelve parts (one per month) that will hit the list over a period of one month and a half, with the events for Kaldmont being released on Kaldmont 28, AC 1016. The second version is the full Mystaran Almanac AC 1015, which will be available very soon at our shop situated at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/9037/ in Mirros, Karameikos, or from your local book shop or library. I hope you enjoy reading the Mystaran Almanac. Belzamith Fingertackles, Co-Editor Mystaran Almanac Mirros, Karameikos Thaumont, AC 1016 ____________________________________________________________________ This material is (c) AC 1016 Joshuan Gallidox Publishing. It is protected by the laws of Karameikos and by the international laws of Mystara. Any mortal that duplicates the contents of the Mystaran Almanac by mundane or magical means may be hunted by an invisible stalker anywhere on or within Mystara or on any other plane of existence or dimension to be brought back to face judgement according to the law of Karameikos; sentence may range from a fine of one gold royal to death by disintegration. Any Immortal that interferes with the Temporal Prime or directly intervenes on or within Mystara so as to make the events contained in the Mystaran Almanac no longer valid may be reported to the Temporal Guardians Council or to the Council of Mystara which have authority on such matters. Any Old One that wills the events contained in the Mystaran Almanac to not exist may be asked to travel to Torreon and withstand the trial of cannon; if said Old One also willed cannon out of existence then in all likelihood the Mystaran Almanac does not exist either in that Mystara, if it is still called that way, and so there is nothing to argue about. _________________________________ Joshuan Gallidox Publishing publisher of the Mystaran Almanac ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 12:53:29 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Almanac AC 1015 supplement : Hollow World > This supplement will be released in two version. The first one is as >a special edition to the MML, split into twelve parts (one per month) >that will hit the list over a period of one month and a half, with the >events for Kaldmont being released on Kaldmont 28, AC 1016. The second >version is the full Mystaran Almanac AC 1015, which will be available >very soon at our shop situated at >http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/9037/ in Mirros, Karameikos, >or from your local book shop or library. > I hope you enjoy reading the Mystaran Almanac. > I believe I speak for a large proportion of listmembers when I say... YYYEEEEEEE-HHHAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!! >This material is (c) AC 1016 Joshuan Gallidox Publishing. It is >protected by the laws of Karameikos and by the international laws of >Mystara. Any mortal that duplicates the contents of the Mystaran >Almanac by mundane or magical means may be hunted by an invisible >stalker anywhere on or within Mystara or on any other plane of existence >or dimension to be brought back to face judgement according to the law >of Karameikos; sentence may range from a fine of one gold royal to death >by disintegration. Any Immortal that interferes with the Temporal Prime >or directly intervenes on or within Mystara so as to make the events >contained in the Mystaran Almanac no longer valid may be reported to the >Temporal Guardians Council or to the Council of Mystara which have >authority on such matters. Any Old One that wills the events contained >in the Mystaran Almanac to not exist may be asked to travel to Torreon >and withstand the trial of cannon; if said Old One also willed cannon >out of existence then in all likelihood the Mystaran Almanac does not >exist either in that Mystara, if it is still called that way, and so >there is nothing to argue about. > Now THAT's a copyright notice! :-) Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 16:12:53 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magian Fire Worshippers >I hope it'll prove useful.. Wow! You've really done a lot with them. This gives me a much better perspective on the MFW cult. I'd known that Rathanos was their likely patron, but I wasn't sure how to reconcile that (given how Rathanos seems to be the Top Banana of Nithian belief) with their long-standing bad reputation and "fanatical cult" status. Treating them as an old Nithian fringe group --one that was trying to push Rathanos' agenda for converting people to energy-beings, a lot faster than the (VERY conservative, natch) Pharaoh or his holy bureaucrats might wish -- is a much better idea. Thanks for the info, DM! Who is this "Corona" Immortal, BTW? Anyone we know...? If not, what kind of Immortal is/was she? >I never thought of the MFW as related in any ways to Zoroaster.. They're not, really. But the religion I'm planning for the Hollow Moon's MPersia (= the koprus' puppet empire) will be loosely based on archaic Zoroastrian practices, giving a sacramental role to both fire and water. Since I'm planning for the koprus' puppet-states to be contemporaries of Nithia, I figured there might've been a sharing of fire-magics between mages in the two cults: MPersia will have wizards (= the historical Magi... and far easier for the kopru to mind-control, without Immortals' interceding!) instead of clerics, in all its high religious offices. Quasi-Zoroastrian beliefs seemed like the best bet, for MPersia, because they're so very distinctive of ancient Iran IRL (unlike Mithraism, which seems too Greek/Roman to me). Combining fire and water in the same deity/Immortal hasn't been done before in gaming, AFAIK; but since they're NOT opposing elements in oD&D, Mystara's the one TSR world where it's a plausible mix. Plus, the kopru have such a "thing" for hot water, already.... The link with the MFWs isn't essential, of course. It was just an idea. :-) Sharon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 18:37:06 -0500 From: Andrew Toth Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Loki/Bozdogan At 08:46 PM 11/15/98 PST, you wrote: > > >>That about sums up the revisions. > >That sounds a *lot* more workable, Andrew. > Well the first draft was when it was late, and I was sleepy, and I could see something was wrong with it, but I wasn't sure what. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 13:18:24 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Loki/Bozdogan > > Two questions: > > 1.) I've been researching Loki in Norse myth, and I'm > > surprised at his neutrality. M-Loki seems equally as > > neutral, more like a Trickster figure than evil. Ive been meaning to answer this one. As James said, the M-Immortals arent supposed to be the actual norse gods. OTOH, the description of Lokis personality is pretty short, and I guess it comes down the alignment in the end. So I usually look to real world myths to develope the immortals further. And the Norse Gods have really interesting personalities. One thing that is interesting is that good and evil dont really apply. These are terms that were introduced with christianity. You are right that Loki is the trickster type, that is found in so many religions. He is the guy who makes things happen, really. His motives are unclear. Some have interpreted the stories that he is actually trying to help the gods,, but when they dont show him the respect he deserves(him being a Jotun and all) he turns against them. Hĺvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #711 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, November 18 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 712 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - HW supplement AC 1015: NUWMONT Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - Vistani Re: [MYSTARA] - Loki/Bozdogan Re: [MYSTARA] - Hule overall Re: [MYSTARA] - Loki/Bozdogan Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth [MYSTARA] - Old digests Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - Magian Fire Worshippers RE: [MYSTARA] - Hule overall Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 05:24:44 PST From: "Joshuan Gallidox Publishing" Subject: [MYSTARA] - HW supplement AC 1015: NUWMONT NUWMONT 6, AC 1015: Something Strange. Location: Haldemar, Alphatian Neatharum. HW Description: A group of visiting Alphatian Mainlanders stumble across a group of diminutive persons peering into the windows of a Haldemar tavern. Raising a cry of alarm, city guards and tavern patrons come outside to investigate. The diminutive persons have since scurried away. However, searching the area signs of their presence and a few miniature pieces of gear are found. News of the sighting is forwarded to the Imperial Court at Andaire. (See Nu. 9, Nu. 12.) What This Means: This sighting is of a Hollow World people known as the Kubitts. Since becoming aware of the Alphatians, the Kubitts have developed a curiosity and fear of them. In light of this, the Kubitts have dispatched parties of themselves to gather information on the Alphatians. So far they have been limited to infiltrating into the city of Haldemar and the town of Dogrel. At first the Kubitts' impressions of the Alphatians' actions in the town of Dogrel support the legendary tales of them. However, observing the Alphatians of Haldemar undermines, and at times contradicts, those tales of a cruel people. At hearing of this sighting, the Imperial Court sees it as a sign that Zandor may be in Neatharum. Empress Eriadna begins summoning Alphatians capable of the task and trusted enough to act in a discreet manner. The agents are also instructed to look into the uneasiness and hostilities of the Neathar towards the Alphatians. What The PCs Can Do: Trustworthy and loyal Alphatian PCs may find themselves tasked to join the groups to be sent to Neatharum. PCs already in Haldemar may be hired or compelled to investigate the incident themselves. NUWMONT 9, AC 1015: Missing Patrol. Location: Dogrel, Alphatian Neatharum. HW Description: A routine patrol unit fails to return to the town of Dogrel. Searches of the surrounding area offer the remains of the five Alphatians and their mounts. All signs indicate that Neathar attacked the patrol. The inhabitants of Dogrel tighten security of the town, and future patrols are strengthened. (See Nu. 6; Nu. 12, Nu. 25.) What This Means: The town of Dogrel has gone unmolested since Eirmont of last year. Since then, the armed forces in Dogrel have steadily grown lax in their defense. This lax attitude had not gone unnoticed by Zorok and his Neathar. Seeing the opportunity, he began planning an assault on the town. Unfortunately, the understrength patrol came across a Neathar war party and was destroyed. With the Alphatians at Dogrel alerted, Zorok will have to rethink his strategy. NUWMONT 12, AC 1015: The Hunters Gather. Location: Haldemar, Alphatian Neatharum. HW Description: In Haldemar, there is a noticeable influx of visitors from the Alphatian Continent. Most of the city's taverns and rooming houses are near full capacity. The city guards increase security. (See Nu. 6, Nu. 9; Nu. 25, Va. 3.) What This Means: These visitors are Alphatian agents. Their task is to discover the whereabouts of, and apprehend, the criminal Zandor, who had escaped internment thanks to the affects of the last Day of Dread. Empress Eriadna has since summoned trusted Alphatian heroes and offered a bounty on her son. Eriadna stresses confidentiality and that Zandor be brought in alive. Over the next few days, these groups will begin departing Haldemar to begin their search. In the meantime, the city's economy will benefit from their presence. This influx of Alphatians has been noticed by Neatharum's ruler, King Dogrel. A rogue of the Empress's decrees on slavery and new conquests, Dogrel is wary of so many obvious Alphatian agents. Personally, he feels that they are here to investigate him. Dogrel has ordered his troops and city guards to be highly visible and listen for clues, but he has little insight as to their true mission yet. What The PCs Can Do: If the PCs are acting Alphatian agents, then they can start their search for Zandor. If the PCs are Neathar they may find employment with a group of agents to serve as guides. If the PCs are in the service of Dogrel, their mission will be to uncover the visitors' mission. NUWMONT 17, AC 1015: Senkha Presses Her Advantage. Location: Nithia. HW Description: In the Delta Kingdom region of Nithia, forces loyal to Senkha capture large swaths of territory from those still loyal to the deposed Pharaoh Ramose. (See Va. 7, Va. 20.) What This Means: The Lower Kingdom is already in Senkha's hands, but the Delta Kingdom contains some of the most vocal supporters of the ousted pharaoh, and Senkha cannot afford to have such a concentration of enemy forces within the kingdom she hopes to control. Although most of her forces will head north, towards Tarthis, a large group will head east to secure the towns and villages of the fertile Plains of Ra, as well as Menkara. NUWMONT 25, AC 1015: A New Visitor. Location: Haldemar, Alphatian Neatharum. HW Description: One of Dogrel's patrols discover the unconscious body of an Alphatian male just outside of Haldemar. They transport the wounded man to Haldemar, where he is cared for. Looking through the person's belongings they discover an Imperial signet ring. (See Nu. 9, Nu. 12; Va. 3, Va. 9.) What This Means: This person is Zandor. He has been hiding in Neatharum since leaving the floating continent. Unaccustomed to the rigors of living off the land, and with no magic at his disposal, he has succumbed to the elements and hunger. Weak and disoriented he has decided to travel to Haldemar to gain provisions. With all of the agents within the city, Zandor had to remain outside to avoid capture. While awaiting the agents to depart, he collapsed. His unconscious form was discovered and brought to Dogrel. Unaware of Zandor's true identity and status, Dogrel suspects he is an Alphatian agent sent to investigate him. Since he is alone and weak, Dogrel hopes to use him to gain some information. _________________________________ Joshuan Gallidox Publishing publisher of the Mystaran Almanac ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 17:26:43 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth > At last, all secrets of the universe had been revealed to the One and the > Many, known as the Old Ones. I've tried to send this mail before but obviously I've made a mistake. IMO this myth simply does not sound Mystaran. Mystaran immortals are old troopers, battle-proofed adventurers, and they behave like ones. Besides, Noumena was a MALE Nithian pharao. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 17:28:38 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Vistani Even it is not true, the "normal people" should call the Vistani "Nitties" or something alike. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 18:08:23 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Loki/Bozdogan > (after all, one of the better things > about Mystara is that, except for cartoonish figures like Stefan, most of > the NPCs are complex, and their behavior can't be described on a matchbook > cover or easily predicted.) Well, your attitude against Stefan Karameikos is cartoonish too, and your usual behaviour to tell it to us at all appropiate and unappropiate occasions is really boring. Jamuga Khan (No sig would be appropiate to tell you my opinion.) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 18:40:48 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Hule overall > :-) ...Well, we can always think of something, I'm sure...politics? > religion? top 10 reasons Stefan is an idiot? (oh, wait, I think you > agree with me here, sorry;-) > > Ahhh, I know...Thincol. <---No, seriously, *just kidding*...I don't want > to become your target (in Jamuga's absence, of course!) 8-)~ > > Jenn Well, as I haven't understood what you wanted to say I will refuse to fire anything against you (or anybody else). Jamuga Khan "???" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 11:58:51 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Loki/Bozdogan > > > Well, your attitude against Stefan Karameikos is cartoonish too, > and your usual behaviour to tell it to us at all appropiate and > unappropiate > occasions is really boring. > Oh, you know, I live to be enlightened by your wisdom, Jamuga Klan. I'll wait by my mailbox day and night for the next pearl of wisdom you will throw me. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 14:28:23 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Jamuga Khan wrote: > > IMO this myth simply does not sound Mystaran. What does that mean? I've never gotten a clear idea about what makes Mystara Mystara. I suspect my fondness for it is due more to it being my first setting than it having a distinct flavor. I know TSR's inconsistency on how to present it isn't the reason. > Mystaran immortals are old troopers, battle-proofed adventurers, and they > behave like ones. That's one view. A little simplistic concerning being that have the power wipe whole empires out of existance. There has to be more to them than super-munchkin characters. > Besides, Noumena was a MALE Nithian pharao. Nope. Sorry. I have it on good authority that Noumena is really the moon. Besides, never heard of this Nithia place. Must not exist ;> BTW everyone, I heard that Keep on the Borderlands is scheduled to be reprinted. Actually, I've heard that its going to be completely new and larger. Anyone taking bets that it won't be set in Mystara? B10 apparently didn't win even though I've always thought it one of the best adventures TSR ever produced. But then, my tastes and TSR's have begun separating lately... - -- Tim This has been a Galwylin® Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 15:54:04 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth On Tue, 17 Nov 1998, Tim wrote: > than super-munchkin characters. Nope, sorry.. There isn't anything more to Elminster, either.. > adventures TSR ever produced. But then, my tastes and TSR's have begun > separating lately... Lately, eh? As one of the "old guard" world re-definers, i was thinking you maybe started on the dark side much earlier! ;) Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:50:07 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth SteelAngel wrote: > > Nope, sorry.. There isn't anything more to Elminster, either.. Uh oh. Baiting me because I struck a nerve? Sorry about that *stomp* ;> > Lately, eh? As one of the "old guard" world re-definers, i was thinking > you maybe started on the dark side much earlier! ;) Embrace the dark side of the force, Ethan! Embrace the lure of power! Ahem, you should hear some of my ideas for Dragonlance so Mystara's not the only one I'd 'fix'. Nor does it stop there. Of course, when you get to be as old as I am, lately becomes relative ;D Part of the reason might be because I don't DM as much as before. More time to devote to designing ideas out than when I did DM. And looking at anything very closely is going to make the flaws noticable. - -- Tim This has been a Galwylin® Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 17:28:39 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Tim wrote: >That's one view. A little simplistic concerning being that have the >power wipe whole empires out of existance. There has to be more to them >than super-munchkin characters. I think you're right, Tim. I've always felt that there has to be a kind of transformation involved when someone ascends to Immortality. This is a farily vague idea for me, but something along the lines of "enlightenment" or whatever. Otherwise, they'd still be running around bagging monsters, not debating the fate of the world. >Nope. Sorry. I have it on good authority that Noumena is really the >moon. Besides, never heard of this Nithia place. Must not exist ;> Nope, wrong...Nithia is the moon and Noumena is a long-forgotten empire...:-)) >Anyone taking bets that it won't be set in Mystara? I say 100 million to 1 it's not. What do you say will be the new setting? Birthright? >B10 >apparently didn't win even though I've always thought it one of the best >adventures TSR ever produced. Yes, I agree. Well-written and well-rounded...clearly unusual for TSR. ;-) >But then, my tastes and TSR's have begun >separating lately... Only lately?? ;-)~ Jenn ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 20:27:32 -0600 From: anowack@juno.com (Aaron E Nowack) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Old digests A while back, I tried to compose a list of MML firsts, and was informed that the first few digests for vol1 are actually from vol2. I was wondering if anyone has copies of these digests and could send them to me. Thanks, Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/5930/ ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 01:19:27 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Jennifer Favia wrote: > > I think you're right, Tim. I've always felt that there has to be a kind > of transformation involved when someone ascends to Immortality. This is > a farily vague idea for me, but something along the lines of > "enlightenment" or whatever. Otherwise, they'd still be running around > bagging monsters, not debating the fate of the world. I'd consider it an expanding of their mind to not only gain knowledge but see a much larger picture. Say your friend become Immortal. He may as well be dead to you because he expands in thought so much farther than you that its as if he's a new person. Granted the Mystara Immortals haven't been shown that way but then the Immortals box did make them running around bagging monsters ;> > Nope, wrong...Nithia is the moon and Noumena is a long-forgotten > empire...:-)) Hey! Are you sure? ;D > I say 100 million to 1 it's not. What do you say will be the new > setting? Birthright? I'm betting Greyhawk myself. Birthright on hiatus at the moment. > Yes, I agree. Well-written and well-rounded...clearly unusual for TSR. > ;-) Wasn't that a module from the UK? Connection? ;D > Only lately?? ;-)~ Okay, okay... I'm so old that time has speeded up and this morning was really four years ago ;D - -- Tim This has been a Galwylin® Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 08:54:58 +0100 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magian Fire Worshippers Sharon Dornhoff wrote: << Who is this "Corona" Immortal, BTW? Anyone we know...? If not, what kind of Immortal is/was she?>> Corona is only briefly mentioned in GAZ2, in an obscure reference as to one shady Immortal who was the secret ally of Thanatos in destroying Nithia. Other strange Immortals are also mentioned in GAZ2, notably Zephyr (Odin?) and the Gnoll (Pflarr?) as being protectors of Ylaruam. Corona can be a very old Immortal who vanished after Nithia's distruction, or even the founder of the Magian Fire Worshippers, who achieved immortality in the Sphere of Entropy after the corruption of Nithia (Seth?..) I haven't worked on this for now.. <> I think it's appropriate to kopru, being both related to fire (hot geysers) and water (underwater race). <> Uhm.. perhaps the contact with the devious minds of the kopru did somehow alter the mind of the Magians who contacted the "Lizards from the Stars" (i suppose they probably spoke to each other using strange telepathic channels and spells). This could have worsened their madness.. while the kopru gained information on fire based spells and got incredibly interested with the MFW's obsession of fire. However, the kopru tried to achieve the ultimate perfection: making water and fire co-exist in a perfect balance, gaining benefits from both (this is a zoroastrian thought, IMHO) ;) DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:57:54 +0100 From: Kristian Kramer Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Hule overall Personally I think she needs her medicine or something. :-) But, hey, we must give her a break, 'cause she's allways writing and mailing to this newsgroup and stuff. That's a good thing. I'm not running a M-campaign (yet), and don't know that much about Mystara and learn a lot from you lot!. Keep up the good work!! Kristian Kramer > -----Original Message----- > From: Jamuga Khan [SMTP:JamugaKhan@gmx.net] > Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 1998 6:41 PM > To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Hule overall > > > :-) ...Well, we can always think of something, I'm sure...politics? > > religion? top 10 reasons Stefan is an idiot? (oh, wait, I think you > > agree with me here, sorry;-) > > > > Ahhh, I know...Thincol. <---No, seriously, *just kidding*...I don't want > > > to become your target (in Jamuga's absence, of course!) 8-)~ > > > > Jenn > > Well, as I haven't understood what you wanted to say > I will refuse to fire anything against you (or anybody else). > > > > Jamuga Khan > > > > "???" > ************************************************************************** > * > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the > line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:06:50 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth > > I say 100 million to 1 it's not. What do you say will be the new > setting? Birthright? > No, it won't be Birthright. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #712 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Thursday, November 19 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 713 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth [MYSTARA] - Korotiku/Yehm Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - Korotiku/Yehm Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - Old digests Re: [MYSTARA] - Korotiku/Yehm Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - Korotiku/Yehm Re: [MYSTARA] - Korotiku/Yehm Re: [MYSTARA] - Korotiku/Yehm Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:07:19 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Tim wrote: >I'd consider it an expanding of their mind to not only gain knowledge >but see a much larger picture. Say your friend become Immortal. He may >as well be dead to you because he expands in thought so much farther >than you that its as if he's a new person. Ye, that's very close to what I had in mind. >> Nope, wrong...Nithia is the moon and Noumena is a long-forgotten >> empire...:-)) > >Hey! Are you sure? ;D I have it on good athority...Loki told me. :-)) >I'm betting Greyhawk myself. Birthright on hiatus at the moment. Huh???? Boy, You can tell I don't give a hoot what new stuff they've thrown out. So Greyhawk is back and BR is gone? Strange, I thought it sold really well. What else is still around? >Wasn't that a module from the UK? Connection? ;D Hmmm.... ;-) >Okay, okay... I'm so old that time has speeded up and this morning was >really four years ago ;D Okay, that's the second age reference in a couple of days--what gives? Birthday coming up?? Or are you just trying to make me feel *my* age in comparison?? ;-) Jenn ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:03:01 PST From: sorcer-e@mailexcite.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth On Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:07:19 PST, Jennifer Favia wrote: > > > Tim wrote: > > >than you that its as if he's a > >I'm betting Greyhawk myself. Birthright on hiatus at the moment. > > Huh???? Boy, You can tell I don't give a hoot what new stuff they've > thrown out. So Greyhawk is back and BR is gone? Strange, I thought it > sold really well. What else is still around? I'm kind of glad. I never liked the idea behind BR. It seems pointless to base a campaign world on making each PC king of his/her own nation. Seems like a DM could just put the PCs in any game world, elevate them to king/ruler status, and play the same thing there. Still, glad to see GreyHawk back. Hopefully Mystara will see a return in a year or so too. I'm dying to see Gazateers for Hule, Sind, Wendar and Denagoth, though Sind is fairly well detailed in Champions of Mystara already. _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private e-mail at http://mail.excite.com/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:33:51 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: [MYSTARA] - Korotiku/Yehm After reading the thread about how Loki's Chaotic alignment doesn't really fit in with the authoritarian (i.e. "Lawful") social structure he's imposed on Hule, I took another gander at the nations which Chaotic Immortals have founded/endorsed. And, if you ask me, the one that REALLY seems out of character -- Sphere-wise, alignment-wise, and in regards to the patron's personality -- isn't Hule, it's Herath! Is it just me, or does Korotiku seem like the LAST guy you'd expect, to patronize a culture that's as stifling and averse to independent thought as that one? Think about it. Yes, ol' Korotiku has himself a big spider fixation; yes, stealth and trickery -- which the aranea rely on, to conceal their true nature -- are within his portfolio of interests. But ONLY as a means to an end! Tricks are the means by which Korotiku provokes others to think about what they're doing, to question their preconceptions, and to shake themselves out of their complacency. Every time he plays a joke on someone, he's trying to point out his victim's short-sightedness, so they can begin to overcome mental inertia and grow beyond their own prejudices. He NEVER tricks someone, merely for the sake of personal profit or to stroke his own ego; that's Loki's department. The LAST thing he'd want to do is play a trick, and NOT make sure the tricked person knows he/she's been fooled! Compare that with the Herathian araneas' deception. It's designed to STOP (demi)humans from thinking -- about where the aranea "disappeared to"; about who their leaders really are; about why people vanish and are never seen again. It's a trick that the aranea don't EVER want discovered, regardless of how it cheats Herath's non-aranea population of the lessons (e.g. "don't judge a book by its cover") such a shocking revelation might teach them. Even worse, the need for conformity which it imposes upon the aranea, themselves, stifles the spider-folk's thinking, every bit as much as it does their subjects': they CAN'T question, CAN'T deviate, CAN'T dispute the ingrained assumption that other races can never be trusted or regarded as equals. Keeping Herath's "big secret" demands that ANY dissention be quelled, before it even begins to spread ... the exact OPPOSITE of the ever-questioning, ever-speculating ideal which Korotiku, as he's described in the products, works to establish. If that's not enough to convince you, look at history: the aranea sabotaged the memories of the wallarans, sending them back into the Stone Age, merely for fear that they MIGHT reveal a secret the chameleon men couldn't care less about. Herath's spell wiped out wallaran memories, disrupted their ability to pursue a rational line of reasoning, and deprived them of millennia of compiled knowledge and wisdom. And this, from a race that's supposedly the favorites of a THOUGHT Immortal...?! No way! Given all these discrepancies, I've come up with three possible explanations for what's really going on, in Herath. I'm sure there are others, but these are the ones I'd like people to consider: 1) Yehm/Korotiku isn't really the dominant power of the Herathian pantheon. He might be a kind of lesser creator-figure, who created the first aranea, then stepped back and let others direct them (a bit like Ptah or Prometheus). The real focus of Herath's faith would be Iliric, whose greed-aspect is more in keeping with the "hoarding" of secrets which are never intended to be brought to light; the Night Spider might also have exerted an influence, before the younger Immortals known to Herath came into being. 2) Yehm IS Korotiku ... but he's an avatar -- a separate being, split off from the Trickster's primary "self" -- which Ko created specifically to protect the aranea from extinction, at a time when they were gravely endangered by (demi)humans. This avatar would have none of Korotiku's wish to expose truths, only to deceive. This would also account for the Herathian's reputed "man-eater" practices, something the Korotiku we all know surely wouldn't put up with. (Not to mention it's in incredibly poor taste, having a BLACK Immortal protect and care for a race that eats people....) 3) Yehm is Korotiku, and he DID endorse their conspiracy to disguise themselves ... but he's ALSO setting the aranea up! Knowing that their deception can't last forever -- and that they'll never learn much, as a race, so long as they maintain it -- he's been waiting for centuries for the humans and other races of the Savage Coast to become every bit as civilized as the spider-folk, so they can confront the aranea on an equal footing militarily, magically, and socially. Then, when he's sure they're evenly matched, he's gonna blow the whistle on the whole thing, let the other races know about Herathians, and watch the spider-folk and their neighbors learn to get along with each other... because they'll have no choice. ;-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 20:03:23 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth > I think you're right, Tim. I've always felt that there has to be a kind > of transformation involved when someone ascends to Immortality. This is > a farily vague idea for me, but something along the lines of > "enlightenment" or whatever. Otherwise, they'd still be running around > bagging monsters, not debating the fate of the world. Well, if this were true you should remove the Wrath of Immortals. The typical behaviour of old adventurers was the main reason for this devastating war. (Or was you part of the faction which have decided not to use this war?) Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 20:17:42 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth > What does that mean? ... There has to be more to them > than super-munchkin characters. It's my first world too. Well, not quite, but I've met D&D first, and when I finally found an AD&D group I was dissatisfied and became one of the founders of a D&D group. It might have something in common with my personal style of play but I have a picture in mind about the immortals. Your myth is definitely to ... mythic, to fit into this picture. > Nope. Sorry. I have it on good authority that Noumena is really the > moon. Besides, never heard of this Nithia place. Must not exist ;> Very funny. :-/ I hope you're not too dissatisfied that your use of Noumena was the final point which convinced never to use this myth. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 14:09:00 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Korotiku/Yehm > personality -- isn't Hule, it's Herath! Is it just me, or does Korotiku > seem like the LAST guy you'd expect, to patronize a culture that's as > stifling and averse to independent thought as that one? > Except that isn't this what Chaos is about, to some degree? Doing the unexpected? Chaotic Immortals seem to have a lot of flexibility (not that I'm endorsing that world view). You've got to judge their entire panolply of followers, as a whole, IMO. I know it's strange. > Think about it. Yes, ol' Korotiku has himself a big spider fixation; yes, > stealth and trickery -- which the aranea rely on, to conceal their true > nature -- are within his portfolio of interests. But ONLY as a means to an > end! > Well, the Areana aren't totally converted to K's world view, I'd agree. But I don't see that as nessisarily contradictory. Well, ok, it is, but it isn't in this fashion: one could "script" a situation where K's perspective has been gaining ground in Herathan society (thus you get some "trickyness"), but hasn't completed the process. Herath is a magocracy, so K's priesthood may not have the influence to insure that everyone "toes the line" as far as the faith's requirements. You could even set up a situation of social tension, where thouse who fervently venerate Korotiku are pressing for a more apropriate social order, but are opposed by the politically dominant magocrat faction. > Compare that with the Herathian araneas' deception. It's designed to STOP > (demi)humans from thinking -- about where the aranea "disappeared to"; > Even Korotiku might not nessisarily want the Arena to be discovered/unveiled. > > 1) Yehm/Korotiku isn't really the dominant power of the Herathian > pantheon. He might be a kind of lesser creator-figure, who created the > first aranea, then stepped back and let others direct them (a bit like Ptah > or Prometheus). The real focus of Herath's faith would be Iliric, whose > greed-aspect is more in keeping with the "hoarding" of secrets which are > never intended to be brought to light; the Night Spider might also have > exerted an influence, before the younger Immortals known to Herath came > into being. > That's possible. But, with what I said above, there wouldn't nessisarily have to be another Immortal involved (Iliric) for Korotiku to take the "back seat" in Herathan society. However, IIRC, I *did* read somewhere that Iliric is important in Herath, so a kind of bifurcated faith makes sense All the above said, #3 (below) sounds *very* suitable for a dude like K-boy to contemplate. With the modification that K-boy won't have to *actively* blow the whistle on the whole thing: just "allow" (read: use clues to lead by the nose) folks to figure it out. Very nice that way, too, because it will "surprise" both the Arena and the humans. Of course, he'll have to be very careful in the unveiling, so no one undertakes an "anti-arachnid crusade" of some kind. Given how volitile the S-coasters are, that'll be a tough trick. . . . > > 3) Yehm is Korotiku, and he DID endorse their conspiracy to disguise > themselves ... but he's ALSO setting the aranea up! Knowing that their > deception can't last forever -- and that they'll never learn much, as a > race, so long as they maintain it -- he's been waiting for centuries for > the humans and other races of the Savage Coast to become every bit as > civilized as the spider-folk, so they can confront the aranea on an equal > footing militarily, magically, and socially. Then, when he's sure they're > evenly matched, he's gonna blow the whistle on the whole thing, let the > other races know about Herathians, and watch the spider-folk and their > neighbors learn to get along with each other... because they'll have no > choice. ;-) > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 14:34:12 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Jennifer Favia wrote: > > I have it on good athority...Loki told me. :-)) Oh, well in that case, you must be right :D > Huh???? Boy, You can tell I don't give a hoot what new stuff they've > thrown out. So Greyhawk is back and BR is gone? Strange, I thought it > sold really well. What else is still around? While I not enchanted by the regent rules of BR, the setting itself and its history is very good. Everything seemed to be going well (they even had to reprint the setting as it sold out) then they cancelled it giving reasons that seemed shakey. FR, DL, GH, PS, RL are still in print but BR, AQ, DS, SJ, and Mystara aren't. But there's been some rumors flying around of changes afoot for Planescape and Ravenloft. I've seen indications they might return Birthright and Dark Sun but they apparently lost Mystara in the buy out as I've heard nothing about it. > Okay, that's the second age reference in a couple of days--what gives? > Birthday coming up?? Or are you just trying to make me feel *my* age in > comparison?? ;-) No birthday. Just that creaking noise I make whenever I stand or sit up at the computer ;> - -- Tim This has been a Galwylin® Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 15:44:07 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth On Wed, 18 Nov 1998, Jamuga Khan wrote: > Well, if this were true you should remove the Wrath of Immortals. > The typical behaviour of old adventurers was the main reason > for this devastating war. Immortals are "human" too. They make mistakes. they get jealous, they get angry. They are not more "enlightened" than mortals in a lot of cases either. They just happen to have been granted a lot of responsibility, and since not just any mortal is worthy for Immortality, this implies that only "le best du best" join the ranks. HOWEVER. We cannot treat the Immortals as Gods. They are not Gods. They are PCs who happened to evolve into godlike beings. Ethan - of course, the PCs in your campaign don't know that. They still treat Immortals as Gods. - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 15:16:19 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth SteelAngel wrote: > > HOWEVER. > > We cannot treat the Immortals as Gods. > > They are not Gods. > > They are PCs who happened to evolve into godlike beings. And the difference is? ;> Seriously, the question of whether they are gods or not is really how ever you want to use them (to me). But what difference does it really make if they are gods or if they're aren't? As I'm fond of saying, Mystara's products have never fallen completely to one side or the other. They're are references to them as gods as well as super powered creatures. It just becomes a "Yes they are - No they aren't" question (and yes they are :) - -- Tim This has been a Galwylin® Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 08:40:25 +1100 From: stan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old digests >A while back, I tried to compose a list of MML firsts, and was informed >that the first few digests for vol1 are actually from vol2. > >I was wondering if anyone has copies of these digests and could send them >to me. Aaron, and anyone else who might need them. Yeah, I've got all the digests from volume 1, 2 and 1997. The ones that are missing, IIRC, from the websites are the first two digests of volume 1 and all the different copies of digest 1 for volume 1997. If you could confirm which ones you need Aaron I'll mail them to you. stan http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 17:35:43 EST From: BoBoII@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Korotiku/Yehm In a message dated 98-11-18 13:54:52 EST, you write: << Compare that with the Herathian araneas' deception. It's designed to STOP (demi)humans from thinking -- about where the aranea "disappeared to"; about who their leaders really are; about why people vanish and are never seen again. It's a trick that the aranea don't EVER want discovered, regardless of how it cheats Herath's non-aranea population of the lessons (e.g. "don't judge a book by its cover") such a shocking revelation might teach them. >> I'm gonna make a new RPG . . . Araneas: The Deception. The players are a bunch of angst-ridden, spider-like creatures who must preserve the secret of their very existance from the people off of which they feed. See they've tricked the Mystarans into thinking that there is no such thing as a . . . blah blah blah . . . decent into marketing/spin-off hell . . . yadda yadda yadda BoBo II "Hear and Obey, or You'll find out what happened to BoBo I." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 00:19:21 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth At 17.26 17/11/98 +0100, Jamuga Khan wrote: >IMO this myth simply does not sound Mystaran. > I agree with Jamuga. In that myth the Immortals remind me the gods of some Aztec (or Maya) myth. Most Immortals (including Ilsundal and Noumena) are former adventurers, not gods, and they behave like strong leaders. Just my opinion. >Mystaran immortals are old troopers, battle-proofed adventurers, and they >behave like ones. > >Besides, Noumena was a MALE Nithian pharao. Right. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 01:49:26 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Korotiku/Yehm >>I'm gonna make a new RPG . . . Araneas: The Deception. The players are a >>bunch >of angst-ridden, spider-like creatures who must preserve the secret of their >very existance from the people off of which they feed. See they've tricked the >Mystarans into thinking that there is no such thing as a . . . blah blah blah >. . . decent into marketing/spin-off hell . . . yadda yadda yadda > > >BoBo II LOL! :-D *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 08:46:48 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Korotiku/Yehm >>>I'm gonna make a new RPG . . . Araneas: The Deception. The players are a >>>bunch >>of angst-ridden, spider-like creatures who must preserve the secret of their >>very existance from the people off of which they feed. See they've tricked the >>Mystarans into thinking that there is no such thing as a . . . blah blah blah >>. . . decent into marketing/spin-off hell . . . yadda yadda yadda Sounds cool! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 08:56:15 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Korotiku/Yehm >> Compare that with the Herathian araneas' deception. It's designed to >STOP >> (demi)humans from thinking -- about where the aranea "disappeared to"; >> >Even Korotiku might not nessisarily want the Arena to be >discovered/unveiled. I think the deception is necessary for the aranea to actually survive, because the aranea feel that the other natives of the SC will kill them all out of fear/racism. Although it does suggest in the RS box that if the PCs "unveil" the aranea to the Inheritors or someone else in authority Herathians may be accepted for what they are. >> 1) Yehm/Korotiku isn't really the dominant power of the Herathian >> pantheon. He might be a kind of lesser creator-figure, who created the >> first aranea, then stepped back and let others direct them (a bit like >Ptah >> or Prometheus). The real focus of Herath's faith would be Iliric, whose >> greed-aspect is more in keeping with the "hoarding" of secrets which are >> never intended to be brought to light; the Night Spider might also have >> exerted an influence, before the younger Immortals known to Herath came >> into being. I'm not so sure about that. I think Yehm is the major figure of the Herathian pantheon (certainly Mazrooth al Yedom invokes his name a lot anyway :) >> 3) Yehm is Korotiku, and he DID endorse their conspiracy to disguise >> themselves ... but he's ALSO setting the aranea up! Knowing that their >> deception can't last forever -- and that they'll never learn much, as a >> race, so long as they maintain it -- he's been waiting for centuries for >> the humans and other races of the Savage Coast to become every bit as >> civilized as the spider-folk, so they can confront the aranea on an equal >> footing militarily, magically, and socially. Then, when he's sure >they're >> evenly matched, he's gonna blow the whistle on the whole thing, let the >> other races know about Herathians, and watch the spider-folk and their >> neighbors learn to get along with each other... because they'll have no >> choice. ;-) Sounds good to me. The aranea of Herath originally considered other races as little more than food, and considered only themselves to be civilised. Now that Yehm has given them a chance to live amongst other races they have realised that other races are more than simply animals. Herathian aranea are described as Neutral compared to the typical Chaotic Evil... (I hate to invoke alignment, but there it is!) :) Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:40:52 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth On Thu, 19 Nov 1998, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > At 17.26 17/11/98 +0100, Jamuga Khan wrote: > >IMO this myth simply does not sound Mystaran. > > > I agree with Jamuga. > In that myth the Immortals remind me the gods of some Aztec (or Maya) myth. > Most Immortals (including Ilsundal and Noumena) are former adventurers, not > gods, and they behave like strong leaders. > Just my opinion. "former adventurers" what does that mean exactly? That they have been crawling through dungeons slaying rust monsters and kobolds? Not very likely. Ilsundal was a leader, a saviour who lead his people to a new and better world. Noumena was a Pharao(spl?) which pretty much means he is a god, if you ask any Nithian, anyway. > >Mystaran immortals are old troopers, battle-proofed adventurers, and they > >behave like ones. > > > >Besides, Noumena was a MALE Nithian pharao. > > Right. What exactly does gender mean to a creature who can take the shapes of both men and women? That alone does change your perspective a bit doesnt it. As for sounding Mystaran, I dunno. If you see this as something people believe in and not neccesarily the truth, I think it works. If some of the names dont fit, just change em. Just my opinion.. Hĺvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 08:39:28 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Hĺvard Rřnne Faanes wrote: > > As for sounding Mystaran, I dunno. If you see this as something people > believe in and not neccesarily the truth, I think it works. If some of the > names dont fit, just change em. Exactly! This myth is my truth for my Mystara. If I thought it should be imposed on everyone, then I would have sent it to TSR and not the list :) - -- Tim This has been a Galwylin® Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 08:23:57 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth >> I have it on good authority...Loki told me. :-)) > >Oh, well in that case, you must be right :D Of course I'm right. And if you don't fully believe I'm right, you will be found guilty of wrong-thinking and send to Greatrealm for "re-education." ;-) >While I not enchanted by the regent rules of BR, the setting itself and >its history is very good. I don't know a great deal about the setting, but when I saw the "Cerilian Human" entry in MC Annual 3, my knee-jerk reaction was, "Now, this looks familiar!" But maybe it was just me. >No birthday. Just that creaking noise I make whenever I stand or sit up >at the computer ;> Oh, *that*...I've found that earplugs work wonders. ;-)) Jenn ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 10:52:44 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Jennifer Favia wrote: > > I don't know a great deal about the setting, but when I saw the > "Cerilian Human" entry in MC Annual 3, my knee-jerk reaction was, "Now, > this looks familiar!" But maybe it was just me. I don't think its just you. I once remarked that Birthright should have been Mystara relaunched. It has the different cultures, small states to rule, etc. Birthright is one of my favorites though and has many cool concepts I would have liked to have seen in Mystara. - -- Tim This has been a Galwylin® Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #713 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, November 20 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 714 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth [MYSTARA] - a copy of myself [MYSTARA] - a litle bit of french Re: [MYSTARA] - Korotiku/Yehm [MYSTARA] - Drachenfels, some correction [MYSTARA] - Ixion Re: [MYSTARA] - Korotiku/Yehm Re: [MYSTARA] - Ixion Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth [MYSTARA] - AC 1015 HW supplement: VATERMONT ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 21:43:12 +0100 From: Cobaye Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth - --------------A7370312656E6ACEED1001A3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Tim a écrit: > Jennifer Favia wrote: > > > > I don't know a great deal about the setting, but when I saw the > > "Cerilian Human" entry in MC Annual 3, my knee-jerk reaction was, "Now, > > this looks familiar!" But maybe it was just me. > > I don't think its just you. I once remarked that Birthright should have > been Mystara relaunched. It has the different cultures, small states to > rule, etc. Birthright is one of my favorites though and has many cool > concepts I would have liked to have seen in Mystara. > The BR concept could be seen in Mystara, if you had taken your penn, and with a bit of imagination you'd wrote it. But it's surely easier to buy than to write. Ok it take a long time, but the result is the best you can find for yourself. "on n'est jamais mieux servi que par soit-męme." > -- > Tim > > This has been a Galwylin® Production > http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. - --------------A7370312656E6ACEED1001A3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  

Tim a écrit:

Jennifer Favia wrote:
>
> I don't know a great deal about the setting, but when I saw the
> "Cerilian Human" entry in MC Annual 3, my knee-jerk reaction was, "Now,
> this looks familiar!" But maybe it was just me.

I don't think its just you.  I once remarked that Birthright should have
been Mystara relaunched.  It has the different cultures, small states to
rule, etc.  Birthright is one of my favorites though and has many cool
concepts I would have liked to have seen in Mystara.
 

The BR concept could be seen in Mystara, if you had taken your penn, and with a bit of imagination you'd wrote it. But it's surely easier to buy than to write. Ok it take a long time, but the result is the best you can find for yourself. "on n'est jamais mieux servi que par soit-même."

--
Tim

This has been a Galwylin® Production
http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/
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'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message.

  - --------------A7370312656E6ACEED1001A3-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 14:40:38 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth At 12.40 19/11/98 +0100, Hĺvard Rřnne Faanes wrote: >"former adventurers" what does that mean exactly? That they have been >crawling through dungeons slaying rust monsters and kobolds? Not very >likely. Adventurers doesn't mean just that. Adventurers means: leaders, conquerors, explorers, heroes... Indiana Jones, Haldemar and Caesar are all adventurers, but very different from each other. >Ilsundal was a leader, a saviour who lead his people to a new and >better world. Yes, in the latter part of his life he certainly did that, but what about his youth? Probably before starting his long march he was already a well known elf, in game terms this means level 12-15, otherwise his people would have not followed him. We don't know how he gained all those levels, but I wouldn't exclude dungeon crawling. >Noumena was a Pharao(spl?) which pretty much means he is a >god, if you ask any Nithian, anyway. Yes, though they would use the term "Immortal" instead of "god". :-) Anyway in real life he was a political and military leader. >What exactly does gender mean to a creature who can take the shapes of >both men and women? That alone does change your perspective a bit doesnt >it. No, I'm stubborn :-) >As for sounding Mystaran, I dunno. If you see this as something people >believe in and not neccesarily the truth, I think it works. Yes, though I consider Mystaran people very different from real world ones, so this myth that could work in the real word just changing the names, doesn't fit very well with my image of Mystara. >If some of the names dont fit, just change em. This advice looks very TSR-ish... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 20:51:54 +0200 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth >I don't think its just you. I once remarked that Birthright should have >been Mystara relaunched. It has the different cultures, small states to >rule, etc. Birthright is one of my favorites though and has many cool >concepts I would have liked to have seen in Mystara. > Well, whaddaya know... It seems I have thought the exact same thing... in fact I even carried it a bit farther than mere thought... Check out my website for details :) Anyway, I agree that Mystara is extremely well-suited to Birthright rules (at least the Known World). ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Blue Star aka Azure Star Dragon solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 04:38:50 +0100 From: Cobaye Subject: [MYSTARA] - a copy of myself My answer to Tim was a bit bigger (stronger) than i want, but in most of messages i've read, it's too easy to tell it's bad about TSR writers to talk about a thing in a simple and restrictive vision. But I take a very simple expression that is to say in french: "on n'est bien servi que par soit męme" that is to tell: we're better served by ourselves than others. It's not negative nor to say everyone is better or badder than myself, but saying everyone is free of adaptation about. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 04:53:47 +0100 From: Cobaye Subject: [MYSTARA] - a litle bit of french hey everybody ! I would like to have messages ( and responses, answers ...) in french, even bad, it is a so romantical langage that I can answering anybody's apt to talk in that langage, like a saint. Please, if there's someone on TSR web server who's apt to talk in french, answer me, I ask everybody, even in bad french. Cause my english is quiet bad and I try to change mind selftalking. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 00:27:42 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Korotiku/Yehm >I think the deception is necessary for the aranea to actually survive, >because the aranea feel that the other natives of the SC will kill them all >out of fear/racism. That's how the aranea THINK other races would react. It's also how they justify their own many abuses of the people around them, by telling themselves (demi)humans are raving bigots who'd kill undisguised spider-folk on sight. But if -- or rather, when; like I said, their deception CAN'T hold up forever, and the longer it lasts, the worse it'll go for the Herathians when it fails -- the truth does come out, I suspect at least a few non-aranea might empathize with their dread of extermination (e.g. Inheritors and Afflicted, who also get branded as "monsters" by plenty of people) and so encourage the various SC races to make peace. Which would come as one heck of a shock, to the aranea ... and which is the very thing Korotiku'd enjoy seeing. >Although it does suggest in the RS box that if the PCs "unveil" the aranea >to the Inheritors or someone else in authority Herathians may be accepted >for what they are. Only if they first renounce their ancestors' "bad habits". Eating people or conducting magical experiments on them isn't going to win a race any friends, irregardless of how many legs it's got! Nor do the araneas' paranoia, or belief in (demi)humans' inferiority, justify such actions; they'd have to change more than just their appearance, and cease BEING the "monsters" the other races think they are, before they can reasonably expect other races to accept their arachnid selves. >I'm not so sure about that. I think Yehm is the major figure of the >Herathian pantheon (certainly Mazrooth al Yedom invokes his name a lot >anyway :) Yehm as a minor figure was just one option of many, Rob. If you look at mythology, there's a lot of pantheons in which the titular "head" doesn't actually attract as much worship as his subordinates do (compare Odin's and Thor's popularity among Vikings, for instance). Just because Yehm has a fancy title doesn't mean the aranea necessarily like his philosophy better than other Immortals'. As for Mazrooth, he hardy seems like your typical Herathian (he actually seemed to LIKE some of "The Black Vessel"'s non-aranea characters!). Even for an aranea, he was an eccentric. :-) >>> 3) Yehm is Korotiku, and he DID endorse their conspiracy to disguise >>> themselves ... but he's ALSO setting the aranea up! Knowing that their >>> deception can't last forever -- and that they'll never learn much, as a >>> race, so long as they maintain it -- he's been waiting for centuries for >>> the humans and other races of the Savage Coast to become every bit as >>> civilized as the spider-folk, so they can confront the aranea on an equal >>> footing militarily, magically, and socially. Then, when he's sure >>they're >>> evenly matched, he's gonna blow the whistle on the whole thing, let the >>> other races know about Herathians, and watch the spider-folk and their >>> neighbors learn to get along with each other... because they'll have no >>> choice. ;-) > >Sounds good to me. The aranea of Herath originally considered other races >as little more than food, and considered only themselves to be civilised. >Now that Yehm has given them a chance to live amongst other races they have >realised that other races are more than simply animals. > >Herathian aranea are described as Neutral compared to the typical Chaotic >Evil... (I hate to invoke alignment, but there it is!) :) Another factor that could enter into a hypothetical "whistle-blowing" by Korotiku, is how Herath's role in restraining the Red Curse has been revealed to other SC societies, after WotI. Now that other races have learned of the Herathians' ceaseless work to restrain the Curse's spread, they might be a wee bit more forgiving of the spider-folk than they'd've been in previous centuries, should Herath's secret come out at this stage. In fact, the immediate post-Wrath period is probably the best opportunity the aranea have had in the last three thousand years, to "come clean" about themselves WITHOUT getting lynched en masse; and if the Cursed lands continue to advance a little farther, every single time there's a Day of Dread, for the next few decades, even the phanatons might eventually be forced to admit the aranea HAVE been doing SOMETHING (however self-serving their motives) for which the Savage Coast owes them a favor. Just don't ask the aranea how the dratted Curse got started, in the first place.... ;-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 07:31:14 +0200 (EET) From: Harri M{ki Subject: [MYSTARA] - Drachenfels, some correction I just realised that I made mistake with Jaggar's marriage. Jaggar was not married in 983 when he became a Prince, he married Gertrud only 989. So here is rewriting of Morgaithe and something more about Jaggar. Morgaithe von Drachenfels Morgaithe was already nearly 60 when he succeeded his father. He was physically not so big as him, but an imposing figure nonetheless with his full beard and shining white uniform. He was more militarily oriented than both his father and uncle together had been. He and his wife Hildegarde had been waiting already over 20 years for the day Morgaithe would become a Prince. They had great plans and were in a hurry to realise them. Morgaithe was chosen as Viceroy of Ylourgne as he wanted. He began immediately to suppress the orc tribes living in the surrounding mountains. His plan was first to pacify humanoids and then to conquer Adri Varma Plateau. He was waiting easy victory, but somehow there seemed to be an endless number of orcs and other humanoids in the mountains. In AC 979 one of the major events in Glantri's recent history took place: the return of the d'Ambrevilles. This took everyone by surprise. Among the Princes there were only the elves and Morphail who remembered the d'Ambrevilles personally, so there was quite a turmoil. After Etienne was again recognized as a Prince he immediately demanded back his position as Grandmaster. Most Princes, Morgaithe amongst them, recognized that he had a certain priviledge for that. But still majority thought that it would be wrong to force out the current holder, Charan Erewan, without any fault on his side, so the demand was turned down. Etienne's next demand broke his and Morgaithe's relations: he demanded the viceroyalty of Ylourgne. Morgaithe was furious because he was afraid that all his plans would be wrecked and definitely didn't want to be removed to Monteleone, which was offered to Etienne. Morgaithe succeeded in getting the majority of the Council to his side in this issue and Etienne had to be content with viceroyalty of Monteleone. After this episode Morgaithe was staunch opponent for anything Etienne supported. Then in AC 983 disaster came: Morgaithe fell in battle against the orcs. He had all the time refuse to listen his advisors who wanted him to wear some armor in battle instead of his white uniform, which made him a very visible target. His wife was devastated, all their plans were disappearing. Hildegarde put his hope to their 38-years-old son, Jaggar. He had always been at his fathers side and accepted his plans, so Hildegarde hoped he would avenge Morgaithe's death. One other soothing matter was that Jaggar was still unmarried, so Hildegarde would for the time being stay as mistress of Ritterburg. Jaggar von Drachenfels Jaggar immediately take his father's crusade against humanoids to the new level. Within next four years he butchered every humanoid he found within 80 mile from Ylourgne. Then he became bored, there was no challenge in killing humanoids. He began to think marriage. He realised that if he would die his sister Helgar would inherit Aalban. Jaggar had begun to dislike his mother's meddling in his matters and Helgar's rulership would meen that Hildegarde would be real ruler. Hildegarde had been presenting young women to Jaggar as possible wifes. Jaggar had turn everyone of them down because he knows that they are all totally under his mothers control. Then in 989 he shocked his mother announcing his marriage with Gertrude Krema, member of the family he knows his mother hates. Hildegarde was born in Ludenburg family, which was one of the few pure Hattian families in Aalban and which had always been propagating about removing Alphatian influence out of Aalban. Krema family on the other hand was, although originally Hattian, adopted Alphatian ideas and had made marriages with Alphatian families. Jaggar wanted to heal some of the wounds amongst Aalbaneese nobility those quarrels had made with this marriage, but he also wanted to give a lesson to his domineering mother. After marriage Jaggar began to search a way to get out of Ylourgne to do something else than scout the mountains. The possibility came when in AC 991 the Supreme Judge Alfonso de Belcadiz suddenly died. Jaggar immediately announced his candidacy. To his great dismay he lose the competition to Jherek Virayana. Most of the Princes considered Jaggar too militarily oriented to be a good judge. Jaggar took his defeat as an insult and developed deep hatred towards Ethengarians afterwards. Only one month later Chancellor Mario di Malapietra was poisoned in reception of foreign ambassadors. This gave Jaggar a new opportunity. He didn't want a chancellorship, but he knew that Volospin Aendyr wanted that position. Volospin was currently Viceroy of Nordling and Jaggar promised him his support if he would support Jaggar's claim to Nordling. If Jaggar would be stucked with some viceroyalty he at least rather be in Nordling than Ylourgne. There was no difficulties in Council: Volospin was chosen as a new Chancellor, Jaggar get Nordling and new Prince of Caurence, Innocenti di Malapietra, Ylourgne, much to Etienne d'Ambrevilles great annoy. And the rest is told in official books... t:Harri Mäki hihama@uta.fi *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:22:27 +0100 (MET) From: Agathokles Subject: [MYSTARA] - Ixion Here is another problem similar to the Bozdogan one: Ixion is listed as a CG immortal, but is avatar among the Enduks (a greater shedu) is LG. Also, most followers of Ixion seem to be LG (Enduks) or LN/LE (Narvaezans). So, I ended up considering Ixion a LG Immortal. What do you think of this? Giampaolo Agosta *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:53:54 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Korotiku/Yehm >>I think the deception is necessary for the aranea to actually survive, >>because the aranea feel that the other natives of the SC will kill them all >>out of fear/racism. > >That's how the aranea THINK other races would react. Judging by one what the background material says, I think they have it spot on. Sorry to quote rules (and a rule I despise the most) but aranea have a -10 reaction roll penalty. No as in FR drow have only -4 when dealing with other elves, that seems to imply a very, VERY deep hatred. Sorry to bring up reaction rolls, but it does illustrate how much other races are supposed to hate them. >>Although it does suggest in the RS box that if the PCs "unveil" the aranea >>to the Inheritors or someone else in authority Herathians may be accepted >>for what they are. > >Only if they first renounce their ancestors' "bad habits". Eating people >or conducting magical experiments on them isn't going to win a race any >friends, irregardless of how many legs it's got! Nor do the araneas' >paranoia, or belief in (demi)humans' inferiority, justify such actions; >they'd have to change more than just their appearance, and cease BEING the >"monsters" the other races think they are, before they can reasonably >expect other races to accept their arachnid selves. Well, originally the aranea thought all other races were merely animals to be exploited. (As described, they originally believed that the other races were placed there by the Immortals as succulent edibles at first, then convenient armies, and now a source of labour, revenue and magical innovation.) So there attitude has progressed from humans being mere lab rats to an (almost) equal parity. As aranea are supposed to be a pragmatic race, I imagine that they are not given to needless racism. The idea that that these masters of magic are willing to learn from "lesser" human mages seems to imply that aranea hold humans in fairly high regard (the Flaems of Glantri are considerably more racist to other humans, after all). Give them a bit more time and I'm sure all will be revealed. And once humans work out that the reasonably benevolent nation of Herath is actually made up of aranea they will be less inclined to be so racist. >>I'm not so sure about that. I think Yehm is the major figure of the >>Herathian pantheon (certainly Mazrooth al Yedom invokes his name a lot >>anyway :) > >Yehm as a minor figure was just one option of many, Rob. If you look at >mythology, there's a lot of pantheons in which the titular "head" doesn't >actually attract as much worship as his subordinates do (compare Odin's and >Thor's popularity among Vikings, for instance). Just because Yehm has a >fancy title doesn't mean the aranea necessarily like his philosophy better >than other Immortals'. Well, fair enough. But he is the grand patron of araneas, and perhaps more importantly the patron of the capital and ruler of Herath. >As for Mazrooth, he hardy seems like your typical Herathian (he actually >seemed to LIKE some of "The Black Vessel"'s non-aranea characters!). Even >for an aranea, he was an eccentric. :-) Well, aranea are not supposed to despise non aranea. I cant see any reason why a SC aranea would not like non aranea. Keep in mind that they are supposed to have split personalities, so an aranea-elf is going to have a perfectly normal "elven side", which will presumably enjoy friendships with other elves. If the aranea are in fact all complete xenophobes than I cannot see them living in nations other than Herath (they are found all across the SC after all) for long without being found out. Just because it is a Spider doesnt necessarily mean its a Bad Person... Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:18:03 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ixion On Fri, 20 Nov 1998, Agathokles wrote: > Here is another problem similar to the Bozdogan one: Ixion is listed as a > CG immortal, but is avatar among the Enduks (a greater shedu) is LG. > Also, most followers of Ixion seem to be LG (Enduks) or LN/LE > (Narvaezans). > So, I ended up considering Ixion a LG Immortal. What do you think of this? I think thats appropriate. Especially considering that he might be the one responsible for creating the Archons. However, an avatar might very well have a different alignment from its creator. In the Old Immortals set, Immortals could even change their alignemnt. Hĺvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:01:11 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth On Thu, 19 Nov 1998, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > At 12.40 19/11/98 +0100, Hĺvard Rřnne Faanes wrote: > > >"former adventurers" what does that mean exactly? That they have been > >crawling through dungeons slaying rust monsters and kobolds? Not very > >likely. > > Adventurers doesn't mean just that. Adventurers means: leaders, conquerors, > explorers, heroes... > Indiana Jones, Haldemar and Caesar are all adventurers, but very different > from each other. Okay, going with that definition, I agree with you that most immortals are former adventurers. Its just that the word adventurer gives me all these weird associations.. However, using your expanded definition of the word, Jamungas statement that Immortals will act as adventurers, loses some meaning. I mean, what does Caesar and Indiana Jones have in common, really? > >Ilsundal was a leader, a saviour who lead his people to a new and > >better world. > > Yes, in the latter part of his life he certainly did that, but what about > his youth? > Probably before starting his long march he was already a well known elf, in > game terms this means level 12-15, otherwise his people would have not > followed him. > We don't know how he gained all those levels, but I wouldn't exclude > dungeon crawling. This is where worlds collide I suppose. I try not to think about these peoples lives in game mechanics. Especially in XD&D mechanics, since they can hardly be called realistic. If I have to consider that every NPC with some experience levels, have been dungeon crawling, that sort of ruins the game realism for me. > >Noumena was a Pharao(spl?) which pretty much means he is a > >god, if you ask any Nithian, anyway. > > Yes, though they would use the term "Immortal" instead of "god". :-) ;P > Anyway in real life he was a political and military leader. His culture considered him alot more than that, and so from his perspective he was near immortal already when he was a mere mortal. Psychologically, anyway. > >What exactly does gender mean to a creature who can take the shapes of > >both men and women? That alone does change your perspective a bit doesnt > >it. > No, I'm stubborn :-) But think about it. If you can take the body of a male and a female, what makes you more connected to one of the two? Ofcourse most cling to the gender they had in mortal life, but I suspect that Ascention into Immortality is sort of a rebirth, so that some are able to free themselves from their mortal background, to a certain degree. In the end its just a GMs call as everything else, ofcourse.. > >As for sounding Mystaran, I dunno. If you see this as something people > >believe in and not neccesarily the truth, I think it works. > > Yes, though I consider Mystaran people very different from real world ones, > so this myth that could work in the real word just changing the names, > doesn't fit very well with my image of Mystara. Strange. I consider Mystarans to be quite similar to real world ones. Its easier to play them that way. Thei mentalility is formed by their respective cultures ofcourse, but they are as human as real humans. Elves and Dwarves are a bit different ofcourse. How are they different in your Mystara? > >If some of the names dont fit, just change em. > > This advice looks very TSR-ish... I suppose it is. 10 years of playing D&D does that to you I guess... :( But, if I am to use Tims Myths, I will have to change some of the names. Ilneval for instance, will be replaced with Thanatos IMC.. Hĺvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:13:49 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth On Thu, 19 Nov 1998, Tim wrote: > Hĺvard Rřnne Faanes wrote: > > > > As for sounding Mystaran, I dunno. If you see this as something people > > believe in and not neccesarily the truth, I think it works. If some of the > > names dont fit, just change em. > > Exactly! This myth is my truth for my Mystara. If I thought it should > be imposed on everyone, then I would have sent it to TSR and not the > list :) I have actually lost interest in the big eternal truth actually. Im more interested in getting into the minds of the people out there. What do they belive? They dont know the truth for sure. Neither do the Immortals, I suspect. The Immortals know more, but not everything.. Hĺvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 07:01:11 PST From: "Joshuan Gallidox Publishing" Subject: [MYSTARA] - AC 1015 HW supplement: VATERMONT VATERMONT 3, AC 1015: The Patient "Finally" Revives. Location: Haldemar, Alphatian Neatharum. HW Description: After weeks of recuperation, Dogrel's charge has regained consciousness. Dogrel meets with the man in private, where they speak for several hours. Emerging from the chamber, Dogrel places guards at the door. (See Nu. 12, Nu. 25; Va. 9, Va. 15.) What This Means: Zandor had actually regained consciousness a few days after being brought to Haldemar, and feigned unconsciousness to eavesdrop on his host. Since then he has learned much about Dogrel and his fears. Using this information Zandor has formulated a plan of action. Zandor informs Dogrel that he is in fact Zandor, the rightful Emperor of Alphatia. He tells Dogrel that there is a power struggle within the Imperium. Supporters of his mother wish to lead Alphatia on a docile path based on trade and non-expansionism, whereas he represents the aspect of the Empire that desires to exert rightful Alphatian power through whatever means necessary. Zandor tells Dogrel that he was forced to flee the Alphatian Continent due to attempts upon his life by supporters of his mother. Dogrel eagerly listens to Zandor. To him, the story is easy to believe as Zandor's presented beliefs mirror his own. Aiding this is the secrecy in which the Imperial Court has cloaked the matter in. Dogrel knows nothing of Zandor's true crimes. Though wary of the possible implications, Dogrel is sorely tempted to offer Zandor aid in exchange for an ally that may be Emperor someday. However, despite the limitations the Empress has imposed upon him, he is not too thrilled about committing treason. He concedes to offer him sanctuary for the time being. This is satisfactory for Zandor, as all he wants is a safe place where he can regain his strength and most importantly assemble a new spellbook. VATERMONT 7, AC 1015: "Senkhites" Surround Tarthis. Location: Tarthis, Nithia. HW Description: Forces loyal to Senkha have seized large swaths of territory along the Nithia River in the Delta Kingdom since the beginning of the year. Now, her forces have converged on Tarthis, the main stronghold of devoted supporters of Ramose. Quickly they manage to begin a siege today, effectively blocking all land and sea access to the city - they even manage to turn back floating barges that make their way to the capital. (See Nu. 17; Va. 20, Va. 27.) What This Means: With the apparent discrediting of Ramose, due to Senkha's successful passing of the test of pharaohs [See AC 1014 Almanac. Ed.], the old pharaoh's supporters are in disarray. Senkha's forces have seized the advantage, and so were able to conquer large swaths of territory in the Delta kingdom, despite tough resistance in certain regions. With the encirclement of Tarthis, the Delta kingdom is effectively cut in two. What The PCs Can Do: If the PCs are on the side of Ramose's forces, they could perform such missions as scouting the enemy, and trying to send information, important goods, and other things through the blockade. They could also be asked to try to harry the besiegers in their camps, thus causing discord and hampering the siege. VATERMONT 9, AC 1015: A Nest of Spies. Location: Haldemar, Alphatian Neatharum. HW Description: Alphatian agents still in Haldemar uncover a series of small-scaled tunnels beneath the buildings of the city. Using magic, the agents access the tunnels and follow their paths. They come to the tunnels' main chamber and engage the diminutive persons. The spies flee with surprising speed. However they leave behind three of their party, one of which is wounded badly, while two are taken captive. Also captured are notes concerning the observations the Kubitts had made. With their captives and captured notes, the agents immediately secure passage aboard a skyship and travel to the Alphatian Continent. (See Nu. 25, Va. 3; Va. 15, Va. 17.) What This Means: Alphatian agents investigating the sightings of the diminutive persons discovered the passages the Kubitts had used to move about areas of the city. Using magic, they shrank themselves to a size that allowed them to access the tunnels. This gave them the opportunity to surprise the Kubitts, which proved enough to take the prisoners and secure the documents before the Kubitts could flee with them. With their base of operations discovered and their observations taken, the surviving Kubitts will have to start over again. Their task will be made more difficult now as they have lost the factor of surprise. They have also lost their leader, since one of those taken prisoner is Captain Zoranthis [HW Box page 57] who was badly wounded in the brief battle. So the Kubitts will have to be more careful and stealthy. What The PCs Can Do: If PCs were the ones that uncovered the Kubitts and their tunnels, then they will be well received in Andaire. They could then lead the effort to discover the identity of these small spies, possibly including their Alphatian origin. They also have an opportunity to act as diplomats to the Kubitts. If they treat the captured Kubitts well, then an important first step between the two peoples has been initiated. Other options for Alphatian PCs include pursuing the Kubitts that evaded capture. If the PCs are Kubitts then they may assemble a rescue force. A rescue attempt is more favorable while the captured Kubitts are still in Neatharum awaiting the skyship to depart, while infiltrating the flying continent will prove more difficult. Rescuing their fellows and departing will really be challenging either way. Then remains the task of reorganizing and rebuilding their spy network in Haldemar. VATERMONT 15, AC 1015: A Weary Return. Location: Haldemar, Alphatian Neatharum. HW Description: After weeks searching the surrounding countryside for their quarry, a party of Alphatian agents return to Haldemar to replenish their supplies and have a brief rest. Their rest is interrupted by the appearance of King Dogrel, who invites them to dine with him. Over dinner, Dogrel asks them about their search. He even tells him of the recent discoveries of the "diminutive people." The conversation varies but centers on politics and recent events, all centered on Alphatia. Ultimately he brings up the earlier numbers of Alphatian agents. The dinner guests tell Dogrel that they, and the others, were charged with tracking down and apprehending someone for the Empress. As the conversation progresses, the agents eventually tell Dogrel that they are pursuing Zandor and why. They tell him of his crimes and abuses of power during his short stint as Emperor. Shortly thereafter Dogrel ends the dining engagement and dismisses the agents, wishing them luck in their search. He does suggest the agents stay in Haldemar for a few more days. He also suggests that they look into the diminutive persons problem. (See Va. 3, Va. 9; Va. 17, Va. 19.) What This Means: Dogrel still has lingering doubts regarding Zandor, at least in fully supporting him. Hearing of the arrival of the agents, he presses them for information using a courteous dinner as cover. He finds a great deal. Most of the other aspects of the conversation support the portions that paint Zandor as a criminal. With this circumstantial evidence, he feels certain that the agents are telling the truth about Zandor. Dogrel does not tell them that Zandor is so near. Dogrel recognizes that if he captures Zandor himself, it will do much for his prestige within the Empire. However, he suggests that the agents remain in the area; that way Dogrel has some "muscle" around should Zandor resist too much. VATERMONT 17, AC 1015: Schattenalfen Settle for Peace. Location: Traldar Lands. HW Description: The Schattenalfen, needing all their armed forces for their upcoming assault on SE lands, sue the Traldar for peace. They tell them that a group of scouts discovered this sacred place and mistook the Traldar artifact for a lost artifact of their immortal patron Atzanteotl, described in their legends, and which was said to be guarded by an hydra. So they mistook the Traldar artifact for their own and took it. However, the vicious Azcans, who had learned of their quest, attacked those elves who were bringing back the artifact and took it to their lands instead. The elves bring the bodies of their scouting party and some dead Azcans to testify of their story. They apologize for the misunderstanding and propose that the Traldar can cross their territory freely to track their lost artifact into Azcan land. The Traldar are convinced by the Schattenalfen's lies and proceed to raid the Azcans, while the elves are content with their deceit. (See Va. 12, Va. 13; Th. 11, Fl. 10.) What This Means: The Schattenalfen needed some rest from the Traldar attacks, because they are deploying their forces toward the Outer World. They hope with this deceit to put two of their enemies at each other's throat. The lands they give access to the Traldar are lands they cannot defend anymore anyway because they're withdrawing in order to attack the Shadow Elves. The bodies they show as proof are, in fact, the executed Shadow Elf diplomats. Thought the Schattenalfen believe they have totally deceived the stupid, primitive Traldar, the Traldar actually still have many doubts, and though they do stop attacking the Schattenalfen and start attacking the Azcans, some heroes begin to spy on the Schattenalfen to try and find out the whole truth. crossreferences for Va. 12 must be changed from (See Nu. 7, Nu. 8; Va. 13, Fl. 10.) to (See Nu. 7, Nu. 8; Va. 13, Va. 17.) crossreferences for Va. 13 must be changed from (See Nu. 8, Va. 12; Fl. 10, Fl. 14.) to (See Nu. 8, Va. 12; Va. 17, Fl. 10.) crossreferences for Fl. 10 must be changed from none to (See Va. 13, Va. 17; Fl. 10., Fl. 14) crossreferences for Fl. 14 must be changed from (See Va. 12, Fl. 10; Ei. 24.) to (See Va. 17, Fl. 10; Ei. 24.) VATERMONT 17, AC 1015: Dogrel is Raided. Location: Dogrel, Alphatian Neatharum. HW Description: In the mining town of Dogrel, Neathar warriors stage a midday raid. The raid is repelled with minor casualties for either side. The raiders then fall back into the surrounding countryside. (See Va. 9, Va. 15; Va. 19, Va. 20.) What This Means: This raid was not as minor as it seems: Zorok himself is there to plan the attack. His tactic was for the Neathar raiders to draw the defenders into pursuing them into the surrounding country, where the Neathar would attack them in mass. VATERMONT 19, AC 1015: Dogrel Assaulted. Location: Dogrel, Alphatian Neatharum. HW Description: The Neathar once again attack the mining town of Dogrel. This time the raid is more intense and lasts for several hours. The defenders are hard-pressed to hold off the assaults, but they do. (See Va. 15, Va. 17; Va. 20, Va. 21.) What This Means: With the previous tactic of drawing the defenders out and into the trap not working as planned, Zorok launched a direct assault on Dogrel. The defenders were well prepared and able to hold off the assaults. VATERMONT 20, AC 1015: Menkara Falls. Location: Menkara, Nithia. HW Description: A large group of Senkha's forces, having branched off from the main force last month, catch the coastal city of Menkara by surprise, storming its walls and capturing much of it within a day, after some fierce fighting in the streets and along the main bridge. Citizens are urged to remain in their homes, and little violence erupts against the populace as a result. (See Nu. 17, Va. 7; Va. 27, Th. 3.) What This Means: The defenders of Menkara were caught totally by surprise. They had heard news of the invasion, but they did not expect Senkha's forces to advance so quickly. As a result, the city's defensive forces had not been fully mobilized by the time the "Senkhites" arrived. Most of the city is now in the hands of the invaders, but some holdouts remain in some of the temples along the main bridge, as well as some other public buildings. These will all be defeated in the next few days. The invasion was also a surprise to the general commanding the invading forces; he did not expect his opponents to be unprepared. What The PCs Can Do: If they happen to be in Menkara when it falls, they could be asked to send important information to those areas loyal to Ramose that have not fallen, or possibly safeguard a holy relic. Given that Senkha's forces control the city, there is little they can do here, apart from assassinating any leaders they can find, though this could lead to repercussions against the populace. VATERMONT 20, AC 1015: The Reckoning. Location: Haldemar, Alphatian Neatharum. HW Description: Dogrel decides it is time to act. He summons Zandor to his study and confronts him about the crimes. Zandor casually confirms each and every accusation, adding several that Dogrel was not told. Zandor then justifies the acts as being well within the rights of the Emperor. Then his arguments become a series of incoherent screeds. Dogrel takes the initiative and casts Power Word Stun. As Zandor is knocked down, Dogrel moves in to cast a Feeblemind spell to be followed by a Web spell to hold him. As Dogrel approaches, his feet crash through the flooring stopping at his waist. Zandor takes advantage of this and recovers his senses enough to respond. As Dogrel struggles to free himself, Zandor begins pummeling him mercilessly with a metal pitcher. Dogrel's guards arrive and begin bashing the locked door down; behind them are the Alphatian agents Dogrel had previously dined with. As they batter the door, Zandor casts Wraithform and Fly and escapes. Inside, the guards find a bleeding and unconscious Dogrel wedged in a hole in the floor. They gently remove Dogrel from the hole and carry him to his sleeping quarters where his wounds can be treated. Dogrel's aides ask the agents to stay the night. (See Va. 17, Va. 19; Va. 21, Th. 3.) What This Means: Dogrel decided it was time to confront Zandor. Zandor surprised Dogrel by affirming the accusations, then went a step further by displaying his insanity. It was too much, even for Dogrel. Dogrel tried to capture Zandor alive by unleashing a planned out series of spells. Unfortunately, on the brink of success, the floor gave way. Zandor used the pause to exact some revenge before having to make a hasty escape utilizing the few spells he had regained while under Dogrel's care. The guards were close at hand and intervened. The Alphatian agents had been in the area investigating Kubitt passages that led into Dogrel's compound, where they heard the sounds of magical melee and the crashing of the floor timbers. Dogrel is scraped up, bruised, and woozy, but these wounds are superficial. Subsequent investigations uncover structural weaknesses in the floor joists. The beams bear small hack and saw marks. This sabotage was enough to cause the floor to collapse under Dogrel's weight. The marks and the discovery of a passage recently cut into the building suggest that the diminutive persons are involved. The Kubitts did weaken the floor as an act of revenge against Dogrel whom they hold responsible for their losses to the agents that infiltrated the spy network. They actually have no sympathies for Zandor. Since being in Haldemar, they have overheard conversation regarding Zandor and his crimes. They were even present during Dogrel's confrontation of him. VATERMONT 21, AC 1015: Dogrel Explains. Location: Haldemar, Alphatian Neatharum. HW Description: A bruised and battered Dogrel summons the Alphatian agents to him. He informs them that Zandor had been in the city as his guest. He explains to them that he had hoped to trap Zandor by lulling him with a false sense of security. However, that trap had been thwarted by the diminutive persons. Dogrel feels certain that the diminutive persons are in the services of Zandor. (See Va. 19, Va. 20; Th. 3, Th. 17.) What This Means: Dogrel knows that losing custody of Zandor compromises his defense and justification in harboring him. Aware that word of the fiasco will soon reach Andaire, he decides to go on the offensive, summons the agents and tells them the whole story. Of course he adds, omits, and emphasizes aspects of the story to justify things and better his own image. VATERMONT 27, AC 1015: Tarthis Conquered. Location: Tarthis, Nithia. HW Description: After almost a month of pitched battles outside the city walls, the invading forces of Senkha manage to defeat their opponents, and break into the city. Many soldiers loyal to Ramose surrender, being outnumbered by almost two-to-one, though many die in the fighting. In a panic, the citizens flee for the relative safety of their homes, and for the most part are unmolested by the invaders. Quickly, the commanders of the invading force order their men to question the populace and detain any known, vocal supporters of Ramose. As for the former pharaoh himself, Ramose is nowhere to be found. (See Va. 7, Va. 20; Th. 3, Ya. 12.) What This Means: While the invaders were well-supplied and well-fed, the defenders were almost out of food and other essential supplies towards the end of the siege, even with the aid of clerical magic. _________________________________ Joshuan Gallidox Publishing publisher of the Mystaran Almanac ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #714 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, November 20 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 715 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ixion Re: [MYSTARA] - Ixion Re: [MYSTARA] - Ixion Re: [MYSTARA] - Korotiku/Yehm [MYSTARA] - [GANDERG@tc.gc.ca: The Jarldom of Ystmarhavn] Re: [MYSTARA] - Ixion Re: [MYSTARA] - Ixion Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - Ixion Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 08:07:09 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ixion >Here is another problem similar to the Bozdogan one: Ixion is listed as a >CG immortal, but is avatar among the Enduks (a greater shedu) is LG. >Also, most followers of Ixion seem to be LG (Enduks) or LN/LE >(Narvaezans). >So, I ended up considering Ixion a LG Immortal. What do you think of this? Of all the Immortals, I feel that Ixion is one of the most complex. This is because of his aspect as the Sun Prince. Sun deities (Immortals, in this case) have been seen through the ages as givers of law, patrons of good, and yet also with a chaotic nature which is typical of nature "Immortals". Ixion is described as lawful and even scholarly, kind and benevolent (Enduks, LG); a stern lawgiver who is seen as a "father-type" (LN, Narvaez); and the ever-changing, fiery-eyed Sun Prince (CG--formerly Azcan Empire). So all of these (and maybe even a couple more, but I just wanted to address your comments) certainly fit, but I think the point to be made here is that *ALL* of them fit, not just one. Ixion is *very* multi-dimensional, and I don't think that alignment does him justice. IMHO, to restrict him to just one of these (LG, for instance) doesn't quite truly reflect him. On the other hand, combining, or rying to "average out" these alignments would end up with something like N, or maybe NG...neither of which even begin to hint at his true nature. I say don't classify him if you don't absolutely have to. Jenn ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 11:29:09 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ixion On Fri, 20 Nov 1998, Jennifer Favia wrote: > Ixion is *very* multi-dimensional, and I don't think that alignment does > him justice. True! That's why the LAST thing most should do is use the AD&D alignments - too restrictive. Leave Ixion in his D&D alignment (Chaotic, I beleive) And there you have it. No "good" no "evil" just "chaotic" Therefore he can be firey yet stern, giving laws yet prone to jealousy. Ethan - D&D purist :) - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:41:51 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ixion > > That's why the LAST thing most should do is use the AD&D alignments - too > restrictive. > I agree with that. The only thing I disagree with is the below, since IIRC, he's listed as Neutral. > Leave Ixion in his D&D alignment (Chaotic, I beleive) And there you have > it. No "good" no "evil" just "chaotic" > > Therefore he can be firey yet stern, giving laws yet prone to jealousy. > > Ethan - D&D purist :) > > > -- > Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 > www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. > > > > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 20:27:39 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Korotiku/Yehm > 3) Yehm is Korotiku, and he DID endorse their conspiracy to disguise > themselves ... but he's ALSO setting the aranea up! Knowing that their > deception can't last forever -- and that they'll never learn much, as a > race, so long as they maintain it -- he's been waiting for centuries for > the humans and other races of the Savage Coast to become every bit as > civilized as the spider-folk, so they can confront the aranea on an equal > footing militarily, magically, and socially. Then, when he's sure they're > evenly matched, he's gonna blow the whistle on the whole thing, let the > other races know about Herathians, and watch the spider-folk and their > neighbors learn to get along with each other... because they'll have no > choice. ;-) > I think I like this solution most. It explains the matter at least a little bit. Perhaps Korotiku is not really happy with his followers and his role in the whole story. I think we shouldn't underestimate the love the mighty old spider has for spiders. Perhaps Korotiku has taken over the role to care for the Araneas ONLY because they're spiders. Once being their patron he had to develope a plan to convert the Herathians according to his ideas and ideals. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:52:07 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - [GANDERG@tc.gc.ca: The Jarldom of Ystmarhavn] The Jarldom of Ystmarhavn: Overheard in the Valdisheim town hall, Qeodhar: "Idunn, pass me another flagon of ale, if you would. I've a long tale to tell tonight, and I need my throat to be quenched before I begin... "Ah, good. So, my lads, think you're brave? You think you're strong, quick, agile, and possessed of a true warrior's heart? Tell me then, Olaf, would you stare down Thanatos Himself if He came for you? Would you, Gulda, look Hel in the face, laugh at Her, and down your ale as if She did not matter? I didn't think so. Now lads, you think you're tough, do you? You think you've got the strength to show louts like Baron Norlan what power is all about, do you? Well, let me tell you about a real warrior, a man who founded a great nation, of which you are the heirs. Let me tell you of Bjorn, and of Ystmarhavn... "Long, long ago, before even your greatest of great grandparents were born, this island that we call home, Qeodhar, was inhabited by a people known as the Yanifey. They were a fair, lithe people, skilled at sailing the seas and in crafting great works of art from wood and stone. It is said that these people had great nations on Alphatia, to the south, before even those otherworldly people came here so long ago. Regardless, from what we know in our songs and our tales, they lived here for a long time, before anyone else was here. "So these people would have stayed here if it were not for our own people, the sons and daughters of Odin, Thor, Frey, and Freja. We came east over the seas in those ancient days, for reasons unknown to us now. Some elders say that in those days a great evil stalked our old homeland, and we could not stay if we hoped to live. Others say that our forefathers were the true jarls of our old nation, and they fled because of a civil war they could not win. "So it was that, years ago, that we were led here by Bjorn One-Arm, our great jarl, and founder of Ystmarhavn. Bjorn, as I have told you before, was a great warrior. It was Bjorn who wrestled a grizzly bear in his youth when it threatened his family, which he saved at the cost of his left arm. It was also Bjorn who, though one-handed, could split a man in twain with his battleaxe, which he wielded with the strength and skill of a man with both arms. Thus as our longships came upon the western shores of that island, the mighty Bjorn led our bravest warriors into the fray, so that we could take these fair lands for ourselves. "All our tales say that the Yanifey were weak and divided when we came. They could not long stand against us, and we strode west to east across the land, and gained much in land and wealth. Many a Yanifey town and fort burned in those years, as we drove our enemies before us. Because we were so mighty, the island was ours before five turnings of the seasons had passed since our first landing, and thus Bjorn named our new land 'Ystmarhavn'. "Many, many years passed, and Bjorn's children proved to be as strong as their great father. Some went south and founded new realms for our people on what is now Alphatia, while others returned to the west, in the hopes of retaking their lost homes. Little was ever heard from these brave sons of Bjorn. Those who remained in Ystmarhavn built a strong nation, one which struck fear in the hearts of the surviving Yanifey on the mainland and those living in the Yanniveys to the east. Truly we were the lords of the seas! "Then one day, some eight hundred years after Bjorn's great victory, or so the stories say, there came in the south a new people - the Alphatians. These were not the Alphatians we know today; these people were brave, they were true warriors, and they followed a mighty wizard named Jarastharram. Under his guidance they founded the kingdom of Argonath, and with these people we traded peacefully, for we respected their prowess in battle and in magic. "So the centuries passed, and we feared not the men of Argonath; nor did we fear the Yanifey of the east. There are tales of great dwarvish kingdoms to the far northeast, in Skothar, which our warriors tried to bring low, but failed. Many times our longships sailed towards the Yannivey Islands, there to do battle with the locals and take what riches they had. Many times, too, a brave young warrior would lead his men westwards to the Lost Lands, there to regain for all what was taken away - seldom did these men ever return. "But then the men of Argonath lost their warrior hearts. Jarastharram was a brave man, sound of mind and body, but when he vanished, his realm soon broke into a thousand pieces as every lordling sought to carve out his own domain, and there to rule supreme. Thus it was that Assambura broke away in the east, and as we had no treaty with them as we did with what remained of Argonath, we took to looting and burning the rich ports of that new kingdom. Ah, plunder was said to be bountiful in those days! As this came to pass, so we began to lose our respect for Argonath, fallen as it was. "Little did we know at that time that there were other men, further south. It was long known that there were strange lands beyond Argonath, filled with forbidding woods and mighty towers, as well as fearsome monsters, but seldom did we sail beyond the northern ports of Argonath. But as time passed the boldest among us rounded Bjorn's Cape, and went among the waves to a land known as Alphatia. Like the Argonathians, the Alphatians were mighty in magic, only moreso. Seeing their strength, we traded with them and nothing more. In time, the Alphatians came to us, saying that they would trade with us greater riches than we could possibly have imagined. And so it was that, by the time Audun the Mighty reigned supreme in the Great Hall of Jarls in Bjornheim, that we no longer dealt with Argonath, and instead allied ourselves with the growing empire of Alphatia. "All is fair in war, and the Argonathians were sorely dismayed to see our longships descend upon their ports. Aye, many a happy warrior of Ystmarhavn sailed hone in those days laden with treasure for their families, and many slaves as well! While Argonath felt our lust for plunder and battle, so Assambura, too, suffered our wrath. In those latter days, about 800 years ago, the brave Yorl and his thirty stalwart henchmen descended upon Raath, capital of Assambura, and there they slew the last king of that nation, and burnt his palace to the ground. "Ah, but how foolish we were! We had thought, in the heat of battle, that the Alphatians would honour their commitment to leave us alone, so long as we did not molest their shipping. Such was not to be. It was not long afterwards that mighty Alphatian skyships sailed over the waters close to Ystmarhavn, and soon enough they sailed over our land, and their emperor began to make more demands upon our jarl, Kjodar. He would not submit, and soon we found those Yanifey, of whom we had made such sport so long ago, armed against us, driven forth by the Alphatian dogs themselves. Although we could easily have massacred the frail Yanifey to a man, they were supported by those foul wizards, and they brought us low at the Battle of Bjornheim. "Afterwards, our island was renamed 'Northrock', and later still it was named 'Qeodhar' by the victors, and a great many of us were forced to live on the unforgiving northern shores of the island, there to suffer and die, or so they hoped! The Yanifey and Alphatian lapdogs who would one day sire Baron Norlan, may Odin curse his soul, inflicted all the things due the vanquished, but far, far worse. They scattered the children of Ystmarhavn far and wide, to the mines of Esterhold, as slaves in Alphatia proper, and as fodder in their battles. But we have not been broken! The fire of Ystmarhavn still burns, and one day, my children, we will rise up once more, and the blood of Bjorn One-Arm will flow true! "So, my young ones, now you know of Bjorn, of Ystmarhavn, and of your birthright which was cruelly taken from you so long ago. Do not forget what has happened." DM Notes: Ystmarhavn was furthest extent eastward of the Antalian culture that dominated northern Brun from circa BC 2500 to BC 1000. The people who would one day inhabit Ystmarhavn left their homes in what is now the Great Bay region of Norwold around BC 1400, in the aftermath of a brutal period of civil war, one of many which sapped the strength of the Antalian people following their great defeat at the hands of Loark's horde in BC 1722. They trekked eastwards, over the sea to what is now Qeodhar around BC 1300, where, under the guidance of Bjorn One-Arm, they displaced the indigenous Yanifey people. Within 20 years after their landing, the entire island was theirs, and they named it "Ystmarhavn". The period that followed was one marked by exploration, further conquest, and bold attempts to reclaim their ancestral homes,which by this time were occupied by the Littonians during one of their own expansions. Some petty jarldoms were founded on the northwestern coast of what is now Frisland, and some Ystmarhavner explorers sailed as far east as the Bay of Thorin, where they encountered fierce dwarvish kingdoms far inland. Around BC 500, the renegade Alphatian wizard, Jarastharram, came north with almost 25,000 followers to found the kingdom of Argonath. Ystmarhavn traded peacefully with the nation, warred with the remaining Yanifey tribes in the region, tried unsuccessfully to conquer the dwarves of Skothar, and otherwise ruled the northern seas until the first signs of Argonath's fall around BC 96, during which eastern Argonath seceded to become Assambura. Since Ystmarhavn had concluded no peace with this nation, Assambura suffered countless raids for over a century. Likewise, the Ystmarhavners saw that the growing Alphatian empire to the south would soon dominate the region, and so they shifted their trade to that empire, as opposed to Argonath, and in fact they soon raided that nation as well. Then, in AC 213, the Ystmarhavner warrior Yorl and his men killed the last king of Assambura during a raid on its capital, plunging that nation into anarchy. Soon, it was annexed by the expanding Alphatian empire, which had been steadily advancing northward during this time. If the people of Ystmarhavn thought they were safe, they were wrong. During Alphatia's conquest of Argonath, the Antalian jarldoms which had been founded on the northwestern coast of Alphatia proper were conquered as well. By AC 350, Alphatian skyships were sailing over Ystmarhavn, secretly mapping its terrain and locating its important settlements. Emmissaries from the empire were also trying to force Ystmarhavn into the fold. Kjodar would have none of it, and in AC 389 a combined force of Yanifey and Alphatian soldiers landed in several places along the southern coast and, within two years, conquered the island. The northern Yanifey had long been subjugated by the Alphatians, but they were proving to be unwilling slaves. The emperor at the time decided to make an offer to them - if they swore allegiance to Alphatia, and helped conquer it, they would receive Ystmarhavn, and be allowed to live there. In the aftermath, an Alphatian-Yanifey succession began, which by AC 500 saw Qeodhar join the Alphatian empire. The Ystmarhavners suffered many casualties in the conquest and the subsequent atrocities, committed largely by Yanifey soldiers eager for revenge. In all, about one-fifth of the population died during the invasion and the massacres, and one-third of the survivors were deported to Esterhold and Alphatia for lives of servitude. Those who were allowed to remain were forced to live in the most inhospitable regions of the island, such as the northern shore. Over the following generations, as well, many able-bodied Ystmarhavners were drafted into the Alphatian army, to serve as expendable soldiers in the wars against Thyatis and the Alasiyans. Today, the Antalian-descended inhabitants of Qeodhar make up roughly one-third of the population, and even today they still suffer poor treatment at the hands of the authorities. It is only a matter of time before the bravest of these embattled people try once more to reclaim their island for their own. - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:00:26 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ixion >On Fri, 20 Nov 1998, Agathokles wrote: > >> Here is another problem similar to the Bozdogan one: Ixion is listed as a >> CG immortal, but is avatar among the Enduks (a greater shedu) is LG. >> Also, most followers of Ixion seem to be LG (Enduks) or LN/LE >> (Narvaezans). >> So, I ended up considering Ixion a LG Immortal. What do you think of this? > >I think thats appropriate. Especially considering that he might be the one >responsible for creating the Archons. However, an avatar might very well >have a different alignment from its creator. In the Old Immortals set, >Immortals could even change their alignemnt. > >Hĺvard IIRC, the "greater shedu" of Old Nimmur wasn't actually an avatar of Ixion himself. If you believe the Orc's Head Peninsula history, Ixion had originally created the enduks in the image of Gilgeam (sp?), a shedu-like Exalted servant of the Sun-Prince. It's possible that Gilgeam's alignment didn't match his master's all that closely. Why couldn't a Lawful (i.e. very strict and by-the-book) minion be extremely faithful to an Immortal who, personally, had some Chaotic (i.e. impulsive and tempremental) tendencies...? So long as Gilgeam believes in the absolute rightness of his Immortal's cause, he could overlook personal foibles on Ixion's part. Likewise, having some Lawful (i.e. fanatical/dogmatic) mortal servants isn't something a chaotically- or neutrally-inclined Immortal need necessarily spurn; the oD&D Vanya has a Neutral alignment, yet her HK Inquisitiors act a lot more like AD&D's Lawful Evil. A Lawful Immortal won't tolerate Chaotic behavior on the part of his/her followers, but the reverse isn't true: Chaos's open-mindedness is a key philosophical difference between Law and Chaos, and helps counterbalance the advantage of Law's organized nature. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 18:17:06 +0200 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ixion >So, I ended up considering Ixion a LG Immortal. What do you think of this? > I consider him more TN actually. He doesn't seem to be the LG paragon of virtue. Well, maybe 'Arcadian' LG, but even that occasionally. Often he seems quite chaotic, and he doesn't always act good (e.g. Narvaez; or WotI). ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Blue Star aka Azure Star Dragon solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 21:46:13 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth At 15.01 20/11/98 +0100, Hĺvard Rřnne Faanes wrote: >I mean, what does Caesar and Indiana Jones have in common, really? Besides being Immort... er.. heroes, I don't know. But they're two examples of what a PC can become at higher levels. >This is where worlds collide I suppose. I try not to think about these >peoples lives in game mechanics. Especially in XD&D mechanics, since they >can hardly be called realistic. If I have to consider that every NPC with >some experience levels, have been dungeon crawling, that sort of ruins the >game realism for me. Not just dungeon crawling, there's a whole world outside the dungeon and many ways to "gain XP". I don't think Corwyn Mauntea has ever entered a dungeon, but I'm sure he has travelled a lot across the KW and he's met his share of monsters and brigands before becoming what he is now. Same goes with Minrothad Merchant Princes. They've sailed all over Brun and beyond, but I doubt they've ever entered a dungeon (either on the surface or underwater). But take Thincol. When he was young he's certainly visited many dungeons, then he became a gladiator and then an Emperor IIRC. BTW: I don't like dungeon crawling and I usually try not to put too many dungeons in my campaigns. >Strange. I consider Mystarans to be quite similar to real world ones. Its >easier to play them that way. Thei mentalility is formed by their >respective cultures ofcourse, but they are as human as real humans. Elves >and Dwarves are a bit different ofcourse. How are they different in your >Mystara? In the Real World you have gods (one or many, it depends), usually super-natural entities far more powerful than the common human. Usually humans cannot even think to become gods and those who think that are often considered fools. In Mystara you have Immortals, mostly former humans (or elves, dwarves, dragons...) that attained Immortality after accomplishing heroic deeds in Mystara. IMC the common man knows that Immortals were once humans (maybe he also knew some of them) and that he can become an Immortal too. This, IMO, gives you a very different perspective. How can you believe in a myth that tells you that Immortal X and Immortal Y created this world, when you know that X and Y were once mortals like you? I think Mystaran religion is something very different from Real World one and it probably deserves to be discussed in a separate thread on this list. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 18:41:06 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth > Immortals are "human" too. They make mistakes. they get jealous, they get > angry. > > They are not more "enlightened" than mortals in a lot of cases either. > They just happen to have been granted a lot of responsibility, and since > not just any mortal is worthy for Immortality, this implies that only "le > best du best" join the ranks. > > HOWEVER. > > We cannot treat the Immortals as Gods. > > They are not Gods. > > They are PCs who happened to evolve into godlike beings. > > > Ethan - of course, the PCs in your campaign don't know that. They still > treat Immortals as Gods. Well spoken!!! Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 18:44:05 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth > I agree with Jamuga. > In that myth the Immortals remind me the gods of some Aztec (or Maya) myth. > Most Immortals (including Ilsundal and Noumena) are former adventurers, not > gods, and they behave like strong leaders. > Just my opinion. Thanks! And now we are two "voices crying in the wilderness"... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 18:51:52 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth > "former adventurers" what does that mean exactly? That they have been > crawling through dungeons slaying rust monsters and kobolds? Not very > likely. Ilsundal was a leader, a saviour who lead his people to a new and > better world. Noumena was a Pharao(spl?) which pretty much means he is a > god, if you ask any Nithian, anyway. Dungeon-crawling is the pass-time of LOW-LEVEL adventurers. HIGH-LEVEL adventurers spend most of their time to crawl through greater dungeons: Wars and Politics!!! Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 23:47:44 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ixion > On the other hand, combining, > or rying to "average out" these alignments would end up with something > like N, or maybe NG...neither of which even begin to hint at his true > nature. I say don't classify him if you don't absolutely have to. > Or keep him on the stand of WotI, where he was classified as "Chaotic". BTW, on the steppes of Ethengar he is known as Tubak the Lawgiver. Even the humanoid nomades from the Yazak Steppes revere him as Tabak. Interesting is that he did not send any of his own followers into battle during WotI, and of course he did not lost any of them. Was that part of his plan? A really fascinating personality... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 00:41:36 +0100 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?=" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth > > In the Real World you have gods (one or many, it depends), usually > super-natural entities far more powerful than the common human. Usually > humans cannot even think to become gods and those who think that are often > considered fools. > In Mystara you have Immortals, mostly former humans (or elves, dwarves, > dragons...) that attained Immortality after accomplishing heroic deeds in > Mystara. In fact, there are quite a few ancient RW civilizations (and a couple of today ones in the Far East) where mortals were exalted to godhood in both legend and society. I think that Mystara's paths to immortality were partially inspired in those beliefs: 1. Roman emperors being divinized (this comes from Caesar's times): this sounds quite close to the Dynast Path (even if it is an hereditary one). 2. mortals who achieved excelence being later granted a divine status in legend (the Egyptian architect Imhotep), this reminds me of the Paragon or the Epic Hero. 3. Some old Thailandian or Birmanian religions which keep young girls who are considered "goddesses" closed inside temples for life. > IMC the common man knows that Immortals were once humans (maybe he also > knew some of them) and that he can become an Immortal too. This, IMO, gives > you a very different perspective. As many Mystara products explain, many of the most powerful and oldest Immortals are not former humans or demihumans, just former MORTALS (Reptiles like Ka, elementals, diaboli, brutemen...); besides, these Immortals do not have to be Mystaran beings (there are quite a few Immortals from Old Alphatia, Cypri, and, like Benekander, the Federation). Who says that those Immortals who are forgotten their mortal identity, like Thanatos, were not alien humans (from other Prime worlds or from different planes)? Andrés *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 21:33:46 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth >In the Real World you have gods (one or many, it depends), usually >super-natural entities far more powerful than the common human. Usually >humans cannot even think to become gods and those who think that are often >considered fools. Actually, many IRL mythologies allowed for mortals to attain divine status, assuming they first became important enough in life. The Romans routinely proclaimed their Emperors to be gods, as did the ancient Egyptians. The Greek pantheon frequently co-opted distinguished mortals into their ranks, for reasons of love or respect for humans' earthly accomplishments. Nor is this view all that unique to the ancient world. In some of the more dubious periods of Christianity's history, you could virtually "buy" your way to sainthood, which would be the monotheistic equivalent of becoming an Immortal (or maybe an Exalted). Even today, millions of Hindus revere a few specially-chosen children, in every generation, as the living incarnations of heroic gods and goddesses. Besides, even if you KNOW an Immortal was once a mortal man/woman/whatever ... so what? If you take a quick survey of the major religions nowadays, there's very few, which don't have a HUMAN figure behind their origins. There's nothing about their having been "mere" mortals, that prevents people in real life from viewing Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha or Moses as the rightful agents of divinity; if anything, their fundamental humanity makes their teachings easier for we mortal humans to relate to, than an omniscient, omnipotent, inscrutable God! For those Mystaran Immortals whose mortal lives are a matter of historical record -- e.g. Vanya; patrons of the Church of Traladara -- most would be considered divinely-ordained servants of an older, more powerful/inscrutable (i.e. godlike) Immortal, now ascended into heaven and -- like patron saints -- worthy of reverence for their own virtues. A few might even have posthumously "revealed themselves" to have been Immortals all along, who'd assumed a mortal guise to advance some holy purpose. (This would explain where the Church of Halav gets its screwy ideas about Stefan, if the real Halav's made such a claim, before.) >In Mystara you have Immortals, mostly former humans (or elves, dwarves, >dragons...) that attained Immortality after accomplishing heroic deeds in >Mystara. IMC the common man knows that Immortals were once humans (maybe >he also knew some of them) and that he can become an Immortal too. This, IMO, >gives you a very different perspective. I can see where that WOULD make things very different. Most oD&D campaigns assume PCs don't learn of Paths of Immortality, or the possiblity of becoming Immortal themselves, before reaching Masters-level. If such goals are common knowledge, that would diminish the luster of Immortality considerably. However, knowing that heroes today can be elevated to divine status wouldn't necessarily prevent people in 1000 AC from thinking that somebody who'd attained Immortality back in, say, the Blackmoor era, had "always" been an Immortal. For another example from IRL myth, many Greek heroes knew Hercules as a mortal adventurer on Earth, and later generations of Greeks believed he'd been taken to Mt. Olympus and proclaimed a god. But that doesn't necessarily mean they assumed that Zeus had been a mortal once, also; SOMEBODY had to have started the whole "deity" thing off, before mortals could become eligible to attain godhood, after all! ;-) >How can you believe in a myth that tells you that Immortal X and Immortal Y >created this world, when you know that X and Y were once mortals like you? It's not the people who knew X and Y when they were mortals, who'd create "Creation" myths; it's the people a thousand generations later, who've forgotten they every were. We DMs may know Immortals didn't create the world, but Immortals tell their faithful only the things they want them to hear! Human imagination -- and the desire to "one-up" the gods of the culture next door -- does the rest. >I think Mystaran religion is something very different from Real World one >and it probably deserves to be discussed in a separate thread on this list. Now, THAT I agree with. Care to start one? :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #715 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Saturday, November 21 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 716 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ixion Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - Ixion Re: [MYSTARA] - Ixion Re: [MYSTARA] - Ixion Re: [MYSTARA] - Ixion Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - Ixion Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - Ixion Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth [MYSTARA] - Software Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 21:38:05 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ixion >BTW, on the steppes of Ethengar he is known as Tubak the Lawgiver. Even the >humanoid nomades from the Yazak Steppes revere him as Tabak. Actually, I prefer to think that was a WotI flub. Gaz12 plainly states that the Ethengarian Immortals are spirits of the steppes who've attained Immortality; Tubak was never Ixion, and Yamunga (sp?) was never Terra. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 20:46:18 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Hĺvard Rřnne Faanes wrote: > > But, if I am to use Tims Myths, I will have to change some of the names. > Ilneval for instance, will be replaced with Thanatos IMC.. That would work since Ilneval started out as Thanatos but fell victim my purging names from real world myths. Ilsundal moved into Ixion's place as the sun god. - -- Tim This has been a Galwylin® Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 22:21:44 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Sharon Dornhoff wrote: > > It's not the people who knew X and Y when they were mortals, who'd create > "Creation" myths; it's the people a thousand generations later, who've > forgotten they every were. We DMs may know Immortals didn't create the > world, but Immortals tell their faithful only the things they want them to > hear! Human imagination -- and the desire to "one-up" the gods of the > culture next door -- does the rest. Sharon, that would be my view also. Nice post! I think some are trying to make the views of the Immortals so 'established' that they are losing the mystical qualities of the religions. If I, as a character, know the secrets of the Immortals, then why would I ever think to worship them? And they are worshipped. They aren't used like some king somewhere that you save his daughter and receive a reward or favor. Plus, the Immortals aren't going to tell me everything they know or everything I want to know. I would fill in the blanks to best of my ability. That's what this myth started out as. It was a myth made by the people of Mystara, not the Immortals. The truths of anything are what ever we want them to be but that doesn't make any of them the 'truth'. I had hope by posting it would cause others to share thier view of Mystara in a similiar way not to just repeat the books most of us have access to. C'mon, people. Stop quoting scriptures at each other and give us some thoughts to expand our personal view of the setting. That's what the whole canon/non-canon debate was about. To move beyond what is known to an actual sharing of personal ideas. - -- Tim This has been a Galwylin® Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 22:30:20 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ixion I've been following this with interest so I guess its time for my comment. Ixion to me would be CG. But, that is what I think his 'true' alignment is. The way I would handle the discrepancies of his alignment is to remember that he can be worshipped as having what ever alignment the people of the area see in him. Those in a desert may see his as CE because he burns and kills. Some in temperament areas may think he's LG because he follows a set pattern. Others see him as NG because he benefits the growth of crops. The characters' views of the Immortals is more important than the actual Immortal. Death in our world today is many things to people. Some see it as good, others neutral, and some completely evil. All are valid and none change what death is. Does that help, Jenn? - -- Tim This has been a Galwylin® Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 04:28:11 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ixion In a message dated 1998-11-20 19:13:58 Eastern Standard Time, JamugaKhan@gmx.net writes: > Interesting is that he did not send any of his own followers into battle > during WotI, and of course he did not lost any of them. Was that part of > his plan? This makes no more sense than the suggestion that WotI said he was Chaotic (it didn't). Many Ethengarians died in WotI -- and Ixion had many followers among them. He is the main patron of Sind, which was conquered by the Master during WotI. He is also revered in Darokin, which was invaded by the Master. So Ixion did indeed lose followers during WotI. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 04:58:10 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ixion In a message dated 1998-11-20 21:52:32 Eastern Standard Time, dornhoff@bio.umass.edu writes: > Actually, I prefer to think that was a WotI flub. Gaz12 plainly states > that the Ethengarian Immortals are spirits of the steppes who've attained > Immortality; Tubak was never Ixion, and Yamunga (sp?) was never Terra. I cannot find this "plain" reference -- in my copy of Gaz 12, Ethengarian Immortals are not sharply differentiated from foreign Immortals in any way. Are you sure you aren't confusing a cleric's dealings with the Immortals with a shaman's dealings with the Spirit World? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 12:41:29 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ixion >I agree with that. >The only thing I disagree with is the below, since IIRC, he's listed as >Neutral. Lol. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 08:27:15 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth >I had hope by posting it would cause others to >share thier view of Mystara in a similiar way not to just repeat the >books most of us have access to. > >C'mon, people. Stop quoting scriptures at each other and give us some >thoughts to expand our personal view of the setting. That's what the >whole canon/non-canon debate was about. To move beyond what is known to >an actual sharing of personal ideas. Exactly!! (A continuing point of frustration) Jenn ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 08:51:19 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth >I think some are trying to make the views of the Immortals so >'established' that they are losing the mystical qualities of the >religions. Yes, that's true. One has to remember that regular people--and even the PCs--do NOT have a DM's view of the Immortals. They revere them as something mysterious and all-powerful, shadowed in mysterious faiths and religions sometimes. They do *not* say "That myth can't be true, since Petra (or whoever) wasn't an Immortal yet when the world was young," because they don't *know* that! People believe things that are sometimes illogical--that is the nature of faith. This doesn't have to turn into a "they're not gods" debate, either--think of the worship of saints in the middle ages...some of them were not even canonized, yet the people had stories of their miracles and good deeds, even to the point that some were believed to have raised people from the dead. As for Tim's myth itself, I sincerely believe that some folks are missing the point entirely...It is meant as a reflection of the *beliefs* of *some* Mystarans--right or not, they can still believe it. (Not to mention that it's a darned good story;-) Jenn ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 08:53:38 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ixion >The characters' views of the Immortals is more important than the actual >Immortal. Death in our world today is many things to people. Some see >it as good, others neutral, and some completely evil. All are valid and >none change what death is. Does that help, Jenn? This was my point, actually--that one can see the Immortals as *much* more complex than simple alignment considerations, as they can easily fit many, if not all, in their differing aspects. Jenn ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 17:12:43 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth At 21.33 20/11/98 -0500, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: >Actually, many IRL mythologies allowed for mortals to attain divine status, >assuming they first became important enough in life. The Romans routinely >proclaimed their Emperors to be gods, as did the ancient Egyptians. True, but the Romans did that just for political reasons. The Emperors, except a few insane ones, didn't really consider themselves god. > The >Greek pantheon frequently co-opted distinguished mortals into their ranks, >for reasons of love or respect for humans' earthly accomplishments. Don't know, most of those mortal heroes were somehow related to gods. >Nor is >this view all that unique to the ancient world. In some of the more >dubious periods of Christianity's history, you could virtually "buy" your >way to sainthood, which would be the monotheistic equivalent of becoming an >Immortal (or maybe an Exalted). Yes, sainthood is more like Exalted statuts IMO. >Even today, millions of Hindus revere a >few specially-chosen children, in every generation, as the living >incarnations of heroic gods and goddesses. In Mystaran terms they can be considered immortals in their mortal form. >Besides, even if you KNOW an Immortal was once a mortal man/woman/whatever >... so what? If you take a quick survey of the major religions nowadays, >there's very few, which don't have a HUMAN figure behind their origins. >There's nothing about their having been "mere" mortals, that prevents >people in real life from viewing Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha or Moses as the >rightful agents of divinity; Agents of divinity is not equal to gods. >I can see where that WOULD make things very different. Most oD&D campaigns >assume PCs don't learn of Paths of Immortality, or the possiblity of >becoming Immortal themselves, before reaching Masters-level. If such goals >are common knowledge, that would diminish the luster of Immortality >considerably. I think PC should not know the Paths, but IMO attaining Immortality should be one of the main goals of PCs since the beginning. Note, I'm not saying that every PC should try to attain Immortality, someone may not be interested in it. > SOMEBODY had to have started the whole "deity" thing off, >before mortals could become eligible to attain godhood, after all! ;-) Don't know, maybe the Path are there also IRL, it's just that we don't know about them. It could be like a physical law: "if you do these things in the right order you'll become Immortal" :-) >Now, THAT I agree with. Care to start one? :-) Not me. I don't know very about RW religions. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@gdr.net http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 17:22:53 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth At 22.21 20/11/98 -0600, Tim wrote: >I think some are trying to make the views of the Immortals so >'established' that they are losing the mystical qualities of the >religions. If I, as a character, know the secrets of the Immortals, >then why would I ever think to worship them? And they are worshipped. When, as a young kid, I used to worship a god it was to have my wishes fullfilled. I prayed for this god so that I may do something for me. Obviously when I saw that it didn't always work I stopped praying altogether. In the same way people on Mystara worship the Immortals because they want something in exchange: health, love, a good harvest, work, good luck, the death of an enemy, power, money, destroying Alphatia... IMO this system works because mortals know that Immortals need their support not to die, otherwise why bother to worship someone if you know that he's far more powerful than you and can wipe you out when he likes most without suffering any consequence. >C'mon, people. Stop quoting scriptures at each other and give us some >thoughts to expand our personal view of the setting. That's what the >whole canon/non-canon debate was about. To move beyond what is known to >an actual sharing of personal ideas. ...and discussing about those ideas :-) ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@gdr.net http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 14:54:00 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth At 00.41 21/11/98 +0100, Andrés Piquer Otero wrote: >In fact, there are quite a few ancient RW civilizations (and a couple of >today ones in the Far East) where mortals were exalted to godhood in both >legend and society. Right. > I think that Mystara's paths to immortality were >partially inspired in those beliefs: > >1. Roman emperors being divinized (this comes from Caesar's times): this >sounds quite close to the Dynast Path (even if it is an hereditary one). >2. mortals who achieved excelence being later granted a divine status in >legend (the Egyptian architect Imhotep), this reminds me of the Paragon or >the Epic Hero. >3. Some old Thailandian or Birmanian religions which keep young girls who >are considered "goddesses" closed inside temples for life. True, but divinizing someone does not mean that he/she attained godhood. Karameikans may divinize King Stefan, but this won't make him an Immortal and James would still be able to kill him :-) Back to RW: some sports (and music) stars are divinized, but would you believe Micheal Jordan is a god? > As many Mystara products explain, many of the most powerful and oldest >Immortals are not former humans or demihumans, just former MORTALS >(Reptiles like Ka, elementals, diaboli, brutemen...); Right, in fact in my previous message I wrote "Immortals, mostly former humans (or elves, dwarves, dragons...)" ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com brizio@gdr.net DM in City Of The Stars - Mystaran Almanac Assistant Student of Aerospace Enginnering - ICQ #1688817 Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 18:24:17 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth At 08.51 21/11/98 PST, Jennifer Favia wrote: >As for Tim's myth itself, I sincerely believe that some folks are >missing the point entirely...It is meant as a reflection of the >*beliefs* of *some* Mystarans--right or not, they can still believe it. >(Not to mention that it's a darned good story;-) Ok. I read that myth when Tim posted it to the MML and I didn't like it, but I decided not to comment on it. Later Jamuga told everyone that he didn't like that myth and why, so I decided to do the same thing (Hey... after all one of the goals of the "canon debate" was to urge everyone to voice his/her opinion, either positive or negative). I wrote my opinion, someone else wrote her/his point of view and at last no-one (I hope) changed his/her mind (not me anyway). Anyway it sound funny that you, the patroness of the "canon debate", writes "I sincerely believe that some folks are missing the point entirely" just because someone didn't like Tim's story :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 10:23:12 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth >Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 17:22:53 +0100 >To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM >From: Fabrizio Paoli >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth >Reply-To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM > >At 22.21 20/11/98 -0600, Tim wrote: > >>I think some are trying to make the views of the Immortals so >>'established' that they are losing the mystical qualities of the >>religions. If I, as a character, know the secrets of the Immortals, >>then why would I ever think to worship them? And they are worshipped. > >When, as a young kid, I used to worship a god it was to have my wishes >fullfilled. >I prayed for this god so that I may do something for me. Obviously when I >saw that it didn't always work I stopped praying altogether. >In the same way people on Mystara worship the Immortals because they want >something in exchange: health, love, a good harvest, work, good luck, the >death of an enemy, power, money, destroying Alphatia... > >IMO this system works because mortals know that Immortals need their >support not to die No, I don't believe that they know this. Or even if *some* people believe this, they will not be heeded by those who believe in the power of the Immortals. In RL, you will never convince someone to stop praying to their god/goddess just because *you* don't believe in them. Same goes, I think, for Mystarans. Besides, which sounds more like religion?: 1) "Let's pray to X because he needs us and will otherwise die," or 2) "Let's pray to X or else he will be angry and the crops will not grow/bad things will happen/etc."?? Besides, whatever *our* own personal thoughts on faith, I think that we cannot apply that to Mystarans, at least not too broadly. They *do* believe in the power of the Immortals. Jenn ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 10:31:48 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth >Anyway it sound funny that you, the patroness of the "canon debate", writes >"I sincerely believe that some folks are missing the point entirely" just >because someone didn't like Tim's story :-) I didn't write that because "someone didn't like Tim's story." Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, and I am certainly not trying to censor that. Like it, hate it, want to print it out just so you can burn it, I don't care (can't speak for Tim though;-) ...I said what I said in response to everyone jumping on the "that's not believeable because everyone knows that..." bandwagon. I.e., quoting scripture at each other. James had a good opinion on this during the recent debate; perhaps he should re-post it. Jenn ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 12:43:29 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ixion > > This was my point, actually--that one can see the Immortals as *much* > more complex than simple alignment considerations, as they can easily > fit many, if not all, in their differing aspects. > Expanding on that, I also think it's not absurd to imagine a situation where an Immortal imposes a ethos on his (or her) followers that doesn't match the Immortal's own behavior (imagine an Immortal, lets call it "Billary," who expects strict standards of sexual decorum, especially in the workplace, from the followers/worshipers, but the Immortal is well known for his or her own escapades). Also, an example that I don't know if it's been mentioned yet: Sind, where Ixion is worshiped in a multitude of aspects, each virtually as if they were a distinct individual Immortal. On a different example, but one that I think can be applied to Ixion, there is Mycr/Mycretianism from the old Judges Guild product "City State of the World Emperor". Mycretians (the worshipers of Mycr) were expected to follow a fairly strict code of behavior (Lawful Good), but the diety itself was described as inscruitably unpredictable (Chaotic Good). I'd have a hard tim scripting a situation where a Lawful Immortal would expect Chaotic behavior from its followers (though with enough creativity, I imagine it could be done), but for a chaotic one, or a neutral one (like Ixion), I can see it happening. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 12:46:03 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth > > True, but divinizing someone does not mean that he/she attained godhood. > Karameikans may divinize King Stefan, but this won't make him an Immortal > and James would still be able to kill him :-) > *Joy* 8-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 12:48:18 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth > other. James had a good opinion on this during the recent debate; > perhaps he should re-post it. > I'd have to find it first. Or, rather, I'd have to figure out which of the multitude of lengthy posts you thought were good, then find that specific one, and post it. 8-)~ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 12:55:51 -0600 From: onesimus@mail.swbell.net Subject: [MYSTARA] - Software Has anyone on this list made software for the purpose of generating unit values for War Machine and Battlesystem? Also I'd be intrested in software for managing domains per Compainion rules. Spencer *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 13:21:10 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > > IMO this system works because mortals know that Immortals need their > support not to die, otherwise why bother to worship someone if you know > that he's far more powerful than you and can wipe you out when he likes > most without suffering any consequence. Wouldn't that be very stupid of the Immortals to tell Mystarans? That without them, they perish? With them having that over the Immortals, the balance of power is shifted. And faith is no longer needed. Immortals go from being these beings of power to lap dogs. Imagine the affect on Christianity if it became known that humans decide if God existed or not. He probably wouldn't survive as that would be a blow that the religion might never recover from. And the affects would be far reaching beyond the faithful. > ...and discussing about those ideas :-) Of course! Though I think we're running into problems in that we're not understanding how the other view the Immortals. From your statement here, I don't see how religion works on your Mystara or if it even exists. So, I'm not even sure if I'm making myself clear to you on my viewpoint. My biggest problem with some views (not necessarily yours) is that viewpoint has not been made yet or not explained well. I still don't understand how some view Immortals and how they are different to standard deities. I've been on the list for a good while now and one of the first things I asked everyone was what the difference was. Those that believe there is a difference have told me that Immortals were once mortals. But so are many deities, so the question remains unanswered for me. - -- Tim This has been a Galwylin® Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 13:40:03 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Jennifer Favia wrote: > > Yes, that's true. One has to remember that regular people--and even the > PCs--do NOT have a DM's view of the Immortals. They revere them as > something mysterious and all-powerful, shadowed in mysterious faiths and > religions sometimes. They do *not* say "That myth can't be true, since > Petra (or whoever) wasn't an Immortal yet when the world was young," > because they don't *know* that! People believe things that are sometimes > illogical--that is the nature of faith. This doesn't have to turn into a > "they're not gods" debate, either--think of the worship of saints in the > middle ages...some of them were not even canonized, yet the people had > stories of their miracles and good deeds, even to the point that some > were believed to have raised people from the dead. Very good points that I agree with myself. If faith was logical, then we'd call it something else, like fact. Isn't a definition of faith "belief in what isn't known and can't be seen"? - -- Tim This has been a Galwylin® Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 13:49:48 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > > I read that myth when Tim posted it to the MML and I didn't like it, but I > decided not to comment on it. Later Jamuga told everyone that he didn't > like that myth and why, so I decided to do the same thing (Hey... after all > one of the goals of the "canon debate" was to urge everyone to voice > his/her opinion, either positive or negative). I don't mind that people don't like the myth (though I was looking for feedback to improve it). But that its not 'Mystaran' doesn't say anything to me. Not until I know what Mystaran means to you. So far, it seems religion has no place on your Mystara (which is fine) but leaves me at a complete loss of how your clerics work and why there are even any institutions called churches (assuming you have them). We may be talking about two completely different settings at this point until the common ground is established. I don't mean the view of the rules but the views of the people of your Mystara. That's where I'm trying to concentrate. - -- Tim This has been a Galwylin® Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 13:53:14 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Jennifer Favia wrote: > > No, I don't believe that they know this. Or even if *some* people > believe this, they will not be heeded by those who believe in the power > of the Immortals. In RL, you will never convince someone to stop praying > to their god/goddess just because *you* don't believe in them. Same > goes, I think, for Mystarans. Besides, which sounds more like religion?: > 1) "Let's pray to X because he needs us and will otherwise die," or 2) > "Let's pray to X or else he will be angry and the crops will not > grow/bad things will happen/etc."?? Hmm, I'm starting to think I have a split personality and Jenn is the other one! ;D Stop thinking like me, Jenn! I'm already making an appointment to make sure I'm whole :) - -- Tim This has been a Galwylin® Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #716 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Sunday, November 22 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 717 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - Ixion Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth [MYSTARA] - What the common Mystaran know about... Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 14:12:52 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth >> other. James had a good opinion on this during the recent debate; >> perhaps he should re-post it. >> >I'd have to find it first. > Or, rather, I'd have to figure out which of the multitude of lengthy posts >you thought were good, then find that specific one, and post it. 8-)~ Okay, maybe you shouldn't re-post it (as it *was* rather lengthy) :-) but reiterate your point. Which was, IIRC, that if people don't like something, they should present it as a matter of personal taste or opinion, rather than to pick apart the work they don't like on the basis of "canon," etc. Jenn ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 14:41:06 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth >Hmm, I'm starting to think I have a split personality and Jenn is the >other one! ;D Stop thinking like me, Jenn! I'm already making an >appointment to make sure I'm whole :) ..lol... Jenn ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 22:01:44 -0500 From: Andrew Toth Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth At 01:40 PM 11/21/98 -0600, you wrote: >Jennifer Favia wrote: >> >> Yes, that's true. One has to remember that regular people--and even the >> PCs--do NOT have a DM's view of the Immortals. They revere them as >> something mysterious and all-powerful, shadowed in mysterious faiths and >> religions sometimes. They do *not* say "That myth can't be true, since >> Petra (or whoever) wasn't an Immortal yet when the world was young," >> because they don't *know* that! People believe things that are sometimes >> illogical--that is the nature of faith. This doesn't have to turn into a >> "they're not gods" debate, either--think of the worship of saints in the >> middle ages...some of them were not even canonized, yet the people had >> stories of their miracles and good deeds, even to the point that some >> were believed to have raised people from the dead. > >Very good points that I agree with myself. If faith was logical, then >we'd call it something else, like fact. Isn't a definition of faith >"belief in what isn't known and can't be seen"? > Not quite. Let me give an example. Would you lend money to someone you didn't know anything about? But if you knew a particular person was trustworthy, and was know for paying back debts, you'd probably do so. Conversely, if that person was known as a slacker and had bills from 10 years ago, you probably wouldn't Similar with deities. Faith is based, or should be(doesn't always work that way in practice, i.e.blind faith) on what you know about a deity. Faith is based on what is known, but takes it a step further... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 20:23:18 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth >Similar with deities. Faith is based, or should be(doesn't always work that >way in >practice, i.e.blind faith) on what you know about a deity. > >Faith is based on what is known, but takes it a step further... Yes, it *is* based on what is known, but we must ask ourselves what really is known about the Immortals. And I mean by the *people of Mystara,* not us. The common Mystaran knows that you pray to certain Immortals for certain things, just like (RW) Roman catholics pray to, for example, Mary for intercession, St. Jude for lost causes, etc. They know nothing about the politics of the Immortals, or of their alignment, or of their other patronages. For example, a Traladaran knows that she prays to Halav to keep her safe from goblin raids. She doesn't know much else. So is her faith less valid because it is "blind"? At any rate, the point is that people have a mystical, nysterious reverence of the Immortals...they don't pick and choose them based on a scientific analysis of their pros and cons. Jenn ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 09:20:05 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology Been paying attention to this debate for a while now. While I do like Tim's Creation Myth, I figure it's time to share with him (and others who might be interested) how Immortals are viewed in my Mystara, as this is one question he was actually asking. IMC, Immortals are mysterious beings. The average Mystaran prays to them for guidance, assistance, health, luck, and a host of other reasons, and hopes secretly that they will not be found wanting in the moral sense, so that they will be granted what they are praying for. Few living Mystarans, save for high-level clerics, sages, and the like (ie: educated people or professional scholars), even have any idea that the Immortals were once plain folks like they are. To them, it's a case of: "The Immortals always were, are now, and always will be. Their ways are unfathomable to mortals, and it is our lot to obey." Mind you, there are differences in this general idea among the various clergies, but the same idea holds in some form in most places. Immortals are all-powerful beings of great power, who, if they deem you worthy, will grant blessings upon you. Educated people in the clergy, who have some rough idea of the truth (ie: that there was a legendary figure called Halav long ago, who *might* have something to do with the Immortal of the same name), dare not share their knowledge, for fear that disastrous consequences of faith, and wrath from the Immortals themselves, could result. Better that the common farmer remain reverent and ignorant, they feel. Does this help you, Tim, understand how Immortals are sen on at least one other Mystara? Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 09:14:31 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology >Does this help you, Tim, understand how Immortals are seen on at least one >other Mystara? For what it's worth, that would be two--our campaign view is nearly identical to yours, except that clerics have a little better idea that the Immortals were once mortals, as they have access to any old documents concerning their patrons. Jenn ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 17:08:30 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth > >In Mystara you have Immortals, mostly former humans (or elves, dwarves, > >dragons...) that attained Immortality after accomplishing heroic deeds in > >Mystara. IMC the common man knows that Immortals were once humans (maybe > >he also knew some of them) and that he can become an Immortal too. This, IMO, > >gives you a very different perspective. I think that the origins of the immortals are an "open secret".The normal mortal knows that the immortals were once mortals too, but he believes that one has to be chosen to become an immortal. Of course this is correct, but the first choice has to be made by the aspiring candidate... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 17:09:53 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ixion > Actually, I prefer to think that was a WotI flub. Gaz12 plainly states > that the Ethengarian Immortals are spirits of the steppes who've attained > Immortality; Tubak was never Ixion, and Yamunga (sp?) was never Terra. The name is "Yamuga". Well, that matter can be discussed over and over - without coming to a conclusion. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 17:21:04 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth > C'mon, people. Stop quoting scriptures at each other and give us some > thoughts to expand our personal view of the setting. That's what the > whole canon/non-canon debate was about. To move beyond what is known to > an actual sharing of personal ideas. Can I be proud of starting this discussion? Only with positive critics it never had started... O.k., please no congratulations! (And please no flames neither!) Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 17:31:33 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth > As for Tim's myth itself, I sincerely believe that some folks are > missing the point entirely...It is meant as a reflection of the > *beliefs* of *some* Mystarans--right or not, they can still believe it. > (Not to mention that it's a darned good story;-) Well, I didn't like it - no more and no less... This is fact I wanted to tell. If I hadn't do this Tim and all fans of his myth had assumed that I would like it. One has to talk to get his opinion public. This does not mean that Tim's reasons to write the myth are bad or invalid. No need to start a flame war, so let's cool down... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law. Personal faith excluded, of course." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 17:34:01 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth > *Joy* > 8-) Not too much, James! Stefan is still a master with the sword... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 14:58:09 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology In a message dated 1998-11-22 09:38:29 Eastern Standard Time, au998@freenet.carleton.ca writes: > IMC, Immortals are mysterious beings. The average Mystaran prays to them > for guidance, assistance, health, luck, and a host of other reasons, and > hopes secretly that they will not be found wanting in the moral sense, so > that they will be granted what they are praying for. Few living > Mystarans, save for high-level clerics, sages, and the like (ie: educated > people or professional scholars), even have any idea that the Immortals > were once plain folks like they are. To them, it's a case of: > > "The Immortals always were, are now, and always will be. Their ways are > unfathomable to mortals, and it is our lot to obey." This description raises an interesting question -- How do Glantrians regard the Immortals? They certainly do not consider them to be worthy of worship or obedience. But do they believe this because they consider the Immortals totally alien to human experience, or because they have some inkling that the Immortals were once mortal? I suspect that what Glantrians believe about Immortals is "the truth" -- but most other Mystarans consider them to be as incorrect in this matter as they are in many other matters. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 15:02:18 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology On Sun, 22 Nov 1998, Geoff Gander wrote: > rough idea of the truth (ie: that there was a legendary figure called > Halav long ago, who *might* have something to do with the Immortal of the > same name) But then again, those same clergy, so blinded by their faith, may see that mortal Halav as merely an incarnation of the Immortal. Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 14:10:46 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology > > I suspect that what Glantrians believe about Immortals is "the truth" -- but > most other Mystarans consider them to be as incorrect in this matter as > they are in many other matters. > Hmmmmn. . .I'm not sure I agree with that. After all, it seems to me that the Glantrian mages mainly wanted to exclude Clerics (and the Immortals they follow) from their lands because they didn't want any "competition" in the spellcasting power arena. The "truth" doesn't seem to have mattered one way or another. OtoH, they may have uncontrolably stumbled into some version of the "truth", but I'd have to read up on Glantrian attitudes regarding Clerics and the Immortals in general. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 16:06:46 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology KaviyD said: >I suspect that what Glantrians believe about Immortals is "the truth" -- but >most other Mystarans consider them to be as incorrect in this matter as >they are in many other matters. Actually, the fact that Glantrians might know The Truth about Immortals might mark them as heretics in some of the more pious countries - a la "Salem Witch-Burnings"... Glantrian: "..but we happen to *know* that Rathanos was a mortal, our scholars have all but *proven* it." Jennite: "Blasphemer! You shall burn twice as long for your infamy!!!" ...not that The Truth means anything to Glantrians at any rate, since the ruling mages simply want to keep clerical competition at a minimum. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 16:07:37 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology >But then again, those same clergy, so blinded by their faith, may see that >mortal Halav as merely an incarnation of the Immortal. > >Ethan In any case, all the more reason to show that the mortals don't "have the facts straight", as it were. :-) Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 16:25:45 -0500 From: Andrew Toth Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth At 08:23 PM 11/21/98 PST, you wrote: > >>Similar with deities. Faith is based, or should be(doesn't always work >that >>way in >>practice, i.e.blind faith) on what you know about a deity. >> >>Faith is based on what is known, but takes it a step further... > >Yes, it *is* based on what is known, but we must ask ourselves what >really is known about the Immortals. And I mean by the *people of >Mystara,* not us. The common Mystaran knows that you pray to certain >Immortals for certain things, just like (RW) Roman catholics pray to, >for example, Mary for intercession, St. Jude for lost causes, etc. They >know nothing about the politics of the Immortals, or of their alignment, >or of their other patronages. For example, a Traladaran knows that she >prays to Halav to keep her safe from goblin raids. She doesn't know much >else. So is her faith less valid because it is "blind"? Perhaps not 'not valid', but maybe not as strong. It is easier to have a stronger faith about a known quantity. >At any rate, the point is that people have a mystical, nysterious >reverence of the Immortals...they don't pick and choose them based on a >scientific analysis of their pros and cons. A pity, isn't it? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 13:11:45 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth At 10.23 21/11/98 PST, Jennifer Favia wrote: >Besides, which sounds more like religion?: >1) "Let's pray to X because he needs us and will otherwise die," or 2) >"Let's pray to X or else he will be angry and the crops will not >grow/bad things will happen/etc."?? Obviously #2, but let's look at the other side. You're a mortal. You know that Immortals are far more powerful than you, so you decide to pray to X for the reasons you wrote above in #2. But you're still not sure that X will be protect you and make your crops grow fine. IMO this is very dangerous because in the end a "who cares" attitude will take place. "I prayed but the harvest was bad, the following year I prayed even more and the Huleans destroyed everything... so why should I continue praying..." And soon the mortals will stop praying... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 22:46:24 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: [MYSTARA] - What the common Mystaran know about... This discussion about Immortals made me think about what the common Mystaran knows about his world. Darokin, AC 1000. 1) Does the common man know about the world being spherical and not flat? 2) Does the common man know about the other planets in Mystara system? Darokin, AC 1010 3) What's the reaction of the common man upon knowing that the world is Hollow? My opinion about #1 and #2: 1) I think yes. Explorers and merchants have probably gone all the way round Mystara both by sea (e.g. Minrothad merchants) and by air (e.g. Alphatian and Heldannic). Schools and universities are fairly common on Mystara and culture is quite widespread in the KW, so I would say this is common knowledge. Only a few people know about the existence of the HW, but they keep it secret because of military reasons. 2) Don't know. In Alphatia I would have said yes, in Darokin I don't know. Mages, sages, clerics and learned people probably know about stars and planets, but do they care to teach it to the common man. Probably not. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@gdr.net http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 16:37:34 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth At 13.21 21/11/98 -0600, Tim wrote: >Wouldn't that be very stupid of the Immortals to tell Mystarans? Er... yes. On the other hand I cannot see why mortals should worship Immortals without anyone guaranteeing that they're going to get something in exchange. Probably the right answer is "faith", something that goes beyond any rational thought :-) >With them having that over the Immortals, the balance of power is shifted. But with your system mortal have very little power over Immortals. It is not a democratic system. It's like having a parliament composed only of politicians who stay there forever, without elections. Once in a while a new member is selected to serve (for life) in the parliament, but the people have no real control over it. It's not fair... well, maybe it shouldn't be, but I don't like it :-) >Of course! Though I think we're running into problems in that we're not >understanding how the other view the Immortals. From your statement >here, I don't see how religion works on your Mystara or if it even >exists. Good question... but I have no clear answer :-) In my Mystara there're Immortals, temples, clerics and obviously the faithful people, but I've never developed the religion beyond what's described in the GAZs. Except a few distinctive cultures (Ethengar, Atruaghin, Sind...) I tend to mark the common KW human as monotheistic, even in cultures, like Thyatis, where many different Immortals are worshipped. I know this is probably wrong, but I like it best. A few questions on this matter. In the PWAs there're several Immortals listed for Darokin, among them Ixion, Koryis and Khoronus. Do you think a common Darokinian will worship just one or more of those Immortals? And if he worships several of them, what do the clerics of the single Immortals think of him? Do the various Temples fight to steal followers from each other or do they accept to have people worship multiple Immortals? ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@gdr.net http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 23:01:47 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology At 09.20 22/11/98 -0500, Geoff Gander wrote: >"The Immortals always were, are now, and always will be. Their ways are >unfathomable to mortals, and it is our lot to obey." > >Mind you, there are differences in this general idea among the various >clergies, but the same idea holds in some form in most places. Immortals >are all-powerful beings of great power, who, if they deem you worthy, will >grant blessings upon you. Educated people in the clergy, who have some >rough idea of the truth (ie: that there was a legendary figure called >Halav long ago, who *might* have something to do with the Immortal of the >same name), dare not share their knowledge, for fear that disastrous >consequences of faith, and wrath from the Immortals themselves, could >result. Better that the common farmer remain reverent and ignorant, they >feel. Some questions for you. What about scholars, "scientist" and learned people? What if, for example, an archeologist discovers proofs of Halav existence? What about historians? Are they considered heretics? Is this view of Immortals valid only among humans or also among demihumans? Everyone knows that Ilsundal and Mealiden were once humans. How is a human cleric going to explain this to teh common people, are there two sorts of Immortals maybe? BTW: same goes, for example, for Al-Kalim, a well known leader among Ylari. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@gdr.net http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 14:16:18 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Jenn wrote: >>At any rate, the point is that people have a mystical, nysterious >>reverence of the Immortals...they don't pick and choose them based on a >>scientific analysis of their pros and cons. > Andrew wrote: >A pity, isn't it? To me, yes...But I wouldn't want to get the ball rolling on an "Age of Reason" in a fantasy game. Where, then, would be the escapism? Jenn ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #717 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, November 23 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 718 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - What the common Mystaran know about... Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology Re: [MYSTARA] - What the common Mystaran know about... Re: [MYSTARA] - What the common Mystaran know about... Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology Re: [MYSTARA] - What the common Mystaran know about... Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology Re: [MYSTARA] - What the common Mystaran know about... Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D MUSH Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D MUSH Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - Ixion Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 14:24:19 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Fabrizio wrote: >IMO this is very dangerous because in the end a "who cares" attitude will >take place. >"I prayed but the harvest was bad, the following year I prayed even more >and the Huleans destroyed everything... so why should I continue praying..." >And soon the mortals will stop praying... That's true, from a modern point of view...But think of the middle ages, in France, for example: "We prayed for the Black Death to go away, but instead it killed most of us...*We* must have done something wrong; let's be more devout, and God will stop punishing us." Sure, it gets a little out of hand (the flagellants come to mind), but my point is that the common, devout Mystaran is not likely to do an empirical study on the amount they prayed vs. the divine benefits yielded. Besides that to an extremely devout populace, *any* small benefit is seen as divine, and anything bad is seen either as a judgement against them or as proof of an adversary, NOT as the failure of that Immortal. If we pray that the Huleans don't invade and they do, it happened because we weren't worthy of salvation, or because of Loki ("the devil did it")...Should some of us be left alive after the city if sacked, we will thank ______ (whoever), _not_ curse them for not saving all of us. Jenn ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 14:28:12 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - What the common Mystaran know about... >Darokin, AC 1000. >1) Does the common man know about the world being spherical and not flat? Yes. It should be common knowledge, due to the reasons you list. Further, isn't Mystara smaller than Earth--shouldn't the horizon show a visible curve? >2) Does the common man know about the other planets in Mystara system? Maybe, maybe not...I say yes, if e goes looking for the answer (that is, it's common knowledge to sages, etc.). But I'd that a Mystara-centric view prevails. > >Darokin, AC 1010 >3) What's the reaction of the common man upon knowing that the world is >Hollow? "All things are possible through the greatness of the Immortals..." Jenn ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 14:36:21 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth >In the PWAs there're several Immortals listed for Darokin, among them >Ixion, Koryis and Khoronus. Do you think a common Darokinian will worship >just one or more of those Immortals? I think they'd worship whoever appeals to them more at the moment (by situation), or mabe all of them, in a religious festival, or in an area where the local church is dedicated to all of them. Oh, and don't forget Asterius here, too. >And if he worships several of them, what do the clerics of the single >Immortals think of him? >Do the various Temples fight to steal followers from each other or do they >accept to have people worship multiple Immortals? They might not be happy with it, but I think that the Immortals accept that Mystarans are mostly polytheistic. After all, think of it from the Immortals' point of view...they're not up in the clouds all alone somewhere--they're mostly together in one group or another, and they have to work together quite a bit. Therefore, I think they'd accept that you just *have* to share. (Someone shared with them somewhere along the line, or else they wouldn't have any followers.) As for stealing others' followers, I think that would definitely be viewed as "bad form," although I can see Thanatos and Atzanteotl (for example) doing it regardless. Jenn ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 14:44:13 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology >Everyone knows that Ilsundal and Mealiden were once humans. Elves, but who's quibbling? ;-) How is a human >cleric going to explain this to teh common people, are there two sorts of >Immortals maybe? >BTW: same goes, for example, for Al-Kalim, a well known leader among Ylari. My opinion on this is that Mystarans generally think of the Immortals as eternal. *However,* I think that they also believe that a mortal can become an Immortal through heroic feats, the likes of which are rarely seen. In the RW, Gilgamesh comes to mind. In these, cases, the people would believe in the ascendance of the mortal to Immortality--ascendance because they know nothing of questing and paths and sponsors, etc. So, using Halav and Ixion as examples, the common Mystaran (say, Traladaran) knows (probably because a priest told him or her so) that Halav was a devout mortal who saved his people from the Beast-men in such a mighty and worthy battle that the Immortals saw fit to place him at their sides. Ixion, however, was always Immortal, and always will be...his origins are unknowable and his motives unfathomable. So Halav inspires legends ("Song of Halav") and emulation in addition to worship, while Ixion inspires holy awe ("fear of god"). Jenn ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 23:48:12 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology At 14.44 22/11/98 PST, Jennifer Favia wrote: >>Everyone knows that Ilsundal and Mealiden were once humans. > >Elves, but who's quibbling? ;-) Shadowelf propaganda :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 17:18:37 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - What the common Mystaran know about... > > Yes. It should be common knowledge, due to the reasons you list. > Further, isn't Mystara smaller than Earth--shouldn't the horizon show a > visible curve? > IIRC, Mystara is exactly the same size of the Earth. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 17:33:15 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - What the common Mystaran know about... > > This discussion about Immortals made me think about what the common > Mystaran knows about his world. > > Darokin, AC 1000. > 1) Does the common man know about the world being spherical and not flat? > The common Darokinian probably does, at least the fairly knowlegable urban Daros, who are considered the "common" sort. Dudes who "don't get out much," live in smallish, isolated villages in yokeldom's motherland probably don't know, or think about it (after all, they might not be so sure that the next Villiage over really exists, or this semi-mythical place called "Darokin City," where the streets are said to be paved with silver and gold cobblestones, and every man is as wealthy as an Emperor). > 2) Does the common man know about the other planets in Mystara system? > Ditto re. the above. All folk probably know to distinguish bettween bright lights in the sky that don't move (much) and bright lights in the sky that do move (slowly, but faster than the other kind). But none likely know that Matera is the home of the Moyoshiman Empire, etc. (Oh, and before some wag points it out: yes, I do know that Matera is a moon, not a planet. Thank you). > Darokin, AC 1010 > 3) What's the reaction of the common man upon knowing that the world is > Hollow? > Is it really hollow? Is that the place with all the Halflings? I thought someone debunked that? Well, I suppose it could be, but what does it matter to me? I mean, I can't trade with this "Hollow World," and it wouldn't be cost effective to try. Besides, if I want to sell to the Hin, the Shires are right next door. I guess speculating about a "Hollow World" is all fine and well for thouse who've got time for that kind of thing (sages, wizards, and other daydreaming layabouts), but I'm busy trying to turn an honest [yah, right] copper. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 18:37:15 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > > You're a mortal. You know that Immortals are far more powerful than you, so > you decide to pray to X for the reasons you wrote above in #2. > But you're still not sure that X will be protect you and make your crops > grow fine. > IMO this is very dangerous because in the end a "who cares" attitude will > take place. > "I prayed but the harvest was bad, the following year I prayed even more > and the Huleans destroyed everything... so why should I continue praying..." > And soon the mortals will stop praying... My view is that worship is maintained by way of a form of fear. Fear of the unknown. Mages are feared because they don't understand them and not everyone can become one. But faithful worship to an Immortal can protect them. They may receive hard times but they fear that if they stop worshipping, they will receive even harsher punishments. They approach the Immortals as if the actions of Immortals are always correct. When they suffer, they must have failed in some way. One effect of the sinking of Alphatia could be that Alphatia must have been evil in someway to be punished so. They're afraid of what they don't know will happen if they don't remain faithful. The power of the churches comes from fear to oppose the Immortals in any way even to not believe in the Immortals. And there is proof that those that have been faithful can even be restored to life after death. (That won't work though if raising from the dead is handed out without regard to faith). In villages, people will blame those outside the common faith as the cause of droughts or disease. - -- Tim This has been a Galwylin® Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 18:43:12 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology Geoff Gander wrote: > > IMC, Immortals are mysterious beings. The average Mystaran prays to them > for guidance, assistance, health, luck, and a host of other reasons, and > hopes secretly that they will not be found wanting in the moral sense, so > that they will be granted what they are praying for. Few living > Mystarans, save for high-level clerics, sages, and the like (ie: educated > people or professional scholars), even have any idea that the Immortals > were once plain folks like they are. To them, it's a case of: > > "The Immortals always were, are now, and always will be. Their ways are > unfathomable to mortals, and it is our lot to obey." It certainly does. That's close to how I view them. I even think it would cause accusations of heresy for someone to go around telling that Immortals were once mortal. I also use Halav that way. Traladarans believe he is their great king of legend risen to Immortality while Thyatians think that proves how ignorant Traladarans are. After all, if these people have an Immortal patron, would a nation threaten to cause his wrath by enslaving or taking the land of an Immortal's chosen people? - -- Tim This has been a Galwylin® Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 18:55:02 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > > In the PWAs there're several Immortals listed for Darokin, among them > Ixion, Koryis and Khoronus. Do you think a common Darokinian will worship > just one or more of those Immortals? I would think this means these are the typical churches you can find in cities. So they are the common Immortals worship by the nation as a whole. Doesn't mean that every person worships them but they are the ones most likely to be worshipped. > And if he worships several of them, what do the clerics of the single > Immortals think of him? I think the comman man worships more than one Immortal usually. He doesn't have that close connection that clerics do so can't afford to tick off any. > Do the various Temples fight to steal followers from each other or do they > accept to have people worship multiple Immortals? The temples would fight for followers. Maybe not by arms but they would attempt to prove that their Immortal can offer more. Now there are some churches that have a pantheon of Immortals where there isn't one single Immortal preached (ex. Church of Traladara, Church of Karameikos). Perhaps Darokin has one of those with Ixion, Koryis, and Khoronus the preferred triad. - -- Tim This has been a Galwylin® Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 19:05:03 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: > > This description raises an interesting question -- How do Glantrians regard > the Immortals? They certainly do not consider them to be worthy of worship > or obedience. But do they believe this because they consider the Immortals > totally alien to human experience, or because they have some inkling that > the Immortals were once mortal? I picture them refusing to bow before any Immortal. That they see no difference between Immortals and themselves except they haven't found this secret of power the Immortals have. That they haven't been destroyed by the Immortals is proof to them they are equal. Everyone else in the Known World knows that Glantri is courting disaster and Ethengar believes they should be punished for their blasphemy and that is up to them. - -- Tim This has been a Galwylin® Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 19:10:00 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - What the common Mystaran know about... Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > > This discussion about Immortals made me think about what the common > Mystaran knows about his world. > > Darokin, AC 1000. > 1) Does the common man know about the world being spherical and not flat? My version of Mystara is in the midst of another Dark Age. Knowledge is rare and the idea of a round world doesn't make sense since anyone can see that the ground is flat ;) > 2) Does the common man know about the other planets in Mystara system? Not in mine. They believe that Mystara is the middle of the universe and lights in the sky are just lights in the sky. > Darokin, AC 1010 > 3) What's the reaction of the common man upon knowing that the world is > Hollow? Another thing I didn't like letting be known as fact. Just a nice story in mine as there has been no communication between them. - -- Tim This has been a Galwylin® Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 19:19:42 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology Jennifer Favia wrote: > > My opinion on this is that Mystarans generally think of the Immortals as > eternal. *However,* I think that they also believe that a mortal can > become an Immortal through heroic feats, the likes of which are rarely > seen. In the RW, Gilgamesh comes to mind. In these, cases, the people > would believe in the ascendance of the mortal to Immortality--ascendance > because they know nothing of questing and paths and sponsors, etc. So, > using Halav and Ixion as examples, the common Mystaran (say, Traladaran) > knows (probably because a priest told him or her so) that Halav was a > devout mortal who saved his people from the Beast-men in such a mighty > and worthy battle that the Immortals saw fit to place him at their > sides. Ixion, however, was always Immortal, and always will be...his > origins are unknowable and his motives unfathomable. So Halav inspires > legends ("Song of Halav") and emulation in addition to worship, while > Ixion inspires holy awe ("fear of god"). I've played around with the idea that reincarnation is a real element on Mystara. There is no 'heaven' to go to after death, you just return. I've thought that maybe the stories of mortals becoming Immortal has grown out of this. Might even go that an Immortal that is punished is made mortal and must prove himself. Might be interesting for some people to believe they are an Immortal being punished. Just an idea I thought about while watching a program on life after death so I've not done anything but played around with the idea in my head. - -- Tim This has been a Galwylin® Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 20:27:16 EST From: Magesmiley@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - What the common Mystaran know about... In a message dated 11/22/98 2:11:29 PM Pacific Standard Time, brizio@lunet.it writes: << 2) Does the common man know about the other planets in Mystara system? >> >From Darokin I'd probably judge at least a marginal yes - they probably know that there are planets up there but not necessarily where they are located in the sky (IIRC it was someone in Darokin who discovered the incoming meteor in WOTI). Seafaring nations (Minrothad in particular comes to mind) on the other hand probably have well developed maps of the sky and are able to point the planets out. - -Mage *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 21:00:53 -0500 From: Andrew Toth Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth >> Do the various Temples fight to steal followers from each other or do they >> accept to have people worship multiple Immortals? > >The temples would fight for followers. Maybe not by arms but they would >attempt to prove that their Immortal can offer more. Now there are some >churches that have a pantheon of Immortals where there isn't one single >Immortal preached (ex. Church of Traladara, Church of Karameikos). >Perhaps Darokin has one of those with Ixion, Koryis, and Khoronus the >preferred triad. This kind of had me thinking. Perhaps, its not that without followers, an Immortal would die, but without followers, an Immortal wouldn't become more powerful, but would remain at his current level. So it would be in an Immortal's interest to have followers, but perhaps when an Immortal becomes a Hierarch, he no longer needs followers, which is why Immortals sponsor people. So theres not that much competition, least among Immortals, among clerics, well thats another story.. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 22:10:43 -0500 (EST) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D MUSH > Is there a D&D/AD&D MUSH out there? All I've seen is Dragonlance, nothing Mystara-based. > And if not...are there any people who > are interested in helping make one? Unfortunately, I've seen little response from the rest of the list. Yes, I would be interested, but no, I have no time to admin or build a MUSH, barely enough to maintain one character at this moment. The problem with a Mystara MUSH (yes, I've thought about the idea before) is this - Too many nations, too many subgroups in each The most functional MUSHes I've seen were one city big or two factions maybe...in Mystara you have over 30 developed countries, many with lots of subsections. You'd have to pick and choose and then you'd get criticism from the Alphatia fans or Norworldites or Milenian-lovers who are upset their group is excluded. And some people know heckuva lot more about Glantrian culture than do others, depending on what products you own. I've never seen a MUSH work on such a large scale - if you can pull it off, the more power to you. But for 30 locales to be viable (and that's limited), you need at least 5-10 players in each on a regular basis - people get sick of the same old crowd - that means you're talking 150-300 players...do Elendor, Amber, Pern or ToT even match that? > To be honest...if a lot of us hard core Mystara fans got together, we could > probably create a truly authentic and fantastic MUSH. Maybe. It has potential but has many possible dangers, the main one being described above. Mischa Gelman Senior, School of Social Work University of Pittsburgh http://www.pitt.edu/~megst19 I'll leave you with the advice Gandalf gave Frodo Baggins. 'When you go, go as Mr. Underhill.' Worthless bit of advice, if you ask me. As a wizard, Gandalf was highly overrated. -Zifnab *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 19:46:16 PST From: sorcer-e@mailexcite.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D MUSH On Sun, 22 Nov 1998 22:10:43 -0500 (EST), Mischa E Gelman wrote: > > Is there a D&D/AD&D MUSH out there? > > All I've seen is Dragonlance, nothing Mystara-based. > > > And if not...are there any people who > > are interested in helping make one? > I'd be interested, but I don't know much about MUSH making. > Unfortunately, I've seen little response from the rest of the list. > Yes, I would be interested, but no, I have no time to admin or build a > MUSH, barely enough to maintain one character at this moment. > > The problem with a Mystara MUSH (yes, I've thought about the idea before) > is this - > Too many nations, too many subgroups in each > > The most functional MUSHes I've seen were one city big or two factions > maybe...in Mystara you have over 30 developed countries, many with lots of > subsections. You'd have to pick and choose and then you'd get criticism > from the Alphatia fans or Norworldites or Milenian-lovers who are upset > their group is excluded. And some people know heckuva lot more about > Glantrian culture than do others, depending on what products you own. > I've never seen a MUSH work on such a large scale - if you can pull it > off, the more power to you. But for 30 locales to be viable (and that's > limited), you need at least 5-10 players in each on a regular basis - > people get sick of the same old crowd - that means you're talking 150-300 > players...do Elendor, Amber, Pern or ToT even match that? > > > To be honest...if a lot of us hard core Mystara fans got together, we could > > probably create a truly authentic and fantastic MUSH. > I'd be interested in helping doing that. I've got all the Gazateers for D&D Known World/Mystara except Gaz5 ( which is now outdated anyway ) and Dawn of the Emperors. I don't own the latest Karameikos : Kingdom of Adventure boxed set, but I got the Gazateer which should still be wroth something. > Maybe. It has potential but has many possible dangers, the main one being > described above. > > > Mischa Gelman > Senior, School of Social Work > University of Pittsburgh > http://www.pitt.edu/~megst19 > > I'll leave you with the advice Gandalf gave Frodo Baggins. 'When you go, > go as Mr. Underhill.' Worthless bit of advice, if you ask me. As a wizard, > Gandalf was highly overrated. -Zifnab > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private e-mail at http://mail.excite.com/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 05:56:23 +0100 From: Alvin Gellert Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth >>Besides, which sounds more like religion?: >>1) "Let's pray to X because he needs us and will otherwise die," or 2) >>"Let's pray to X or else he will be angry and the crops will not >>grow/bad things will happen/etc."?? > >Obviously #2, but let's look at the other side. >You're a mortal. You know that Immortals are far more powerful than you, so >you decide to pray to X for the reasons you wrote above in #2. >But you're still not sure that X will be protect you and make your crops >grow fine. >IMO this is very dangerous because in the end a "who cares" attitude will >take place. >"I prayed but the harvest was bad, the following year I prayed even more >and the Huleans destroyed everything... so why should I continue praying..." >And soon the mortals will stop praying... If you see the praying man as a man of common faith, and of somewhat similar faith as many had in medieval times, I think he would either, as you say, stop praying alltogether, or he would say "Gosh, I do not want to see what had happened if I had not prayed". If people pray to immortals, it would not be illogical to have the old sayings about "The Immortals works in mysterious ways", or "At least (insert name of praying man's deity) could keep us all alive during the hulean attack". People with faith will almost always come up with some explanation to what happened, because being an atheist does have a few drawbacks. Like "Hmm, what will happen to me when I die". Fact is, eternal life with some imm sounds a bit better than "Gone forever when dead". Another fact that I think influences people very strongly is the spells that the clerics are granted. In the real world, people have their faith, and maybe some sort of more or less believeable miracles to base it on. But in Mystara, there can be no doubt that there are some powerful creatures who gives spells to their followers. This would be a strong base for religions when there is very little doubt whether the creatures to be worshipped really exists or not. Just my few thoughts :) Alvin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 23:55:00 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ixion >> Actually, I prefer to think that was a WotI flub. Gaz12 plainly states >> that the Ethengarian Immortals are spirits of the steppes who've attained >> Immortality; Tubak was never Ixion, and Yamuga was never Terra. > >I cannot find this "plain" reference -- in my copy of Gaz 12, Ethengarian >Immortals are not sharply differentiated from foreign Immortals in any >way. Are you sure you aren't confusing a cleric's dealings with the >Immortals with a shaman's dealings with the Spirit World? The reference IS included in the material about spirits; but the paragraph I recall specifies that Immortals worshipped by Ethengar's clerics were also spirits, in "mortal" (?) life. Whereas shamans deal with all kinds of animal-spirits and nature-spirits (most of whom are much less powerful than Immortals, when taken individually), members of the cleric class deal with those rare inhabitants of the Spirit World who'd attained Immortality on their own plane. I don't have a copy with me at the moment, to give you a page#, but it's the same section of Gaz12 as the information on the Spirit World's relationship with Mystara. IIRC, the page in question also tells of how the undead "spirits" from RC aren't the same things as the (living) spirits of Ethengar. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 00:12:36 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology > After all, it seems to me that the Glantrian mages mainly wanted to >exclude Clerics (and the Immortals they follow) from their lands because >they didn't want any "competition" in the spellcasting power arena. The >"truth" doesn't seem to have mattered one way or another. Given that Glantrian mages are traditionally amoral, and jealous of their power even at the best of times, I agree that their disdain for the worship of Immortals is probably a pragmatic decision, to keep clerical rivals from posing any challenge to their authority. Having whole temples full of mid-level clergy who can Dispel Magic (and don't even need a spellbook, to do it!) would threaten mages' monopoly on political influence. Of course, that's on the surface. Deep down -- and considering their OWN ambitions, of gaining magical might (the Brotherhood) or military power (Jaggar) or eternal "life" (Morphail & Brannart) -- Glantri's mage-princes have got another excellent reason, to resent and revile and voice contempt for each and every one of the Immortals: They ENVY them. ;-D *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #718 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, November 23 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 719 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth [MYSTARA] - Ethengarian Immortals (was Ixion) Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology Re: [MYSTARA] - Ixion Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - What the common Mystaran know about... Re: [MYSTARA] - What the common Mystaran know about... Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengarian Immortals (was Ixion) [MYSTARA] - Skin color in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Skin color in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Skin color in Mystara [MYSTARA] - Grids Re: [MYSTARA] - Grids Re: [MYSTARA] - Skin color in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - Skin color in Mystara [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth - an answer to fabricio ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 22:10:05 PST From: "Ariel Guerra" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth >>In the PWAs there're several Immortals listed for Darokin, among them Ixion, Koryis and Khoronus. Do you think a common Darokinian will worship just one or more of those Immortals? >I think they'd worship whoever appeals to them more at the moment (by situation), or mabe all of them, in a religious festival, or in an area >where the local church is dedicated to all of them. > To add to this I think what must be remembered is that in an area where the "commoner" is more superstitious than others, one is more likely to want to cover all aspects of the things that affect his life, whereas someone in Darokin may only pray to one or two immortals because those are the only ones that are relevant to his particular interest. Ariel "To do all that one is able to do is to be a man; to do all that one would like to do is to be a god." --Napoleon I (attributed) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 01:28:33 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Ethengarian Immortals (was Ixion) In a message dated 1998-11-23 00:10:16 Eastern Standard Time, dornhoff@bio.umass.edu writes: > I don't have a copy with me at the moment, to give you a page#, but it's > the same section of Gaz12 as the information on the Spirit World's > relationship with Mystara. IIRC, the page in question also tells of how > the undead "spirits" from RC aren't the same things as the (living) spirits > of Ethengar. Ah -- I found it on p. 38 of the DM's guide portion of Gaz 12. The relevant paragraph says, "The Immortals of the Ethengars are spirits who have achieved Immortality in the Spirit World, but who have a close affinity with the Ethengars. As part of their path to Immortality, these Immortals helped the Ethengars to establish themselves on the steppes and so became an intrinsic part of the Ethengars' beliefs. Their awesome powers have been explained in terms of the Ethengars' way of life, in the same way as all Immortals become a part of any culture's religious beliefs. While Yamuga, Tubak, and Cretia are not Immortals of human origins, they take an active interest in the development of the Ethengars, taking on the same roles as do Immortals honored by other races and cultures." Unfortunately, this passage raises even more questions than it answers. For example, is it supposed to be "the truth", or is it the Ethengarian belief about their patron Immortals? If it is the latter, then Ethengar becomes another culture that does not believe the Immortals to be eternal (since they are mentioned as having "achieved Immortality"), despite their origins in the "Spirit World". And what is the nature of this "Spirit World"? The AD&D supplement "Shaman" provides no help at all for anyone who would theorize that the "Spirit World" is a real place -- quite the contrary, in fact. At least the reference to the Ethengarian Immortals not being of human origin is beyond dispute, as WotI clearly depicts Tubak (Ixion) and Yamuga (Terra) as being of non-human origin. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:52:26 +0100 (MET) From: Agathokles Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth On Fri, 20 Nov 1998, Jamuga Khan wrote: > > Most Immortals (including Ilsundal and Noumena) are former adventurers, > not > > gods, and they behave like strong leaders. > > Just my opinion. > > Thanks! > > And now we are two "voices crying in the wilderness"... > Sure, most Immortals were once mortals, but I don't see a great difference with RW-gods. Take the Greek gods, for instance. They are jealous, they are almost always angry and, in general, they act worse than most men. Also, more RW-gods than one can think were mortals. Romulus/Quirinus, the Roman emperors, and some minor greek gods (if you don't consider Herakles). Giampaolo Agosta *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:34:00 +0100 (MET) From: Agathokles Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology On Mon, 23 Nov 1998, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: > > Given that Glantrian mages are traditionally amoral, and jealous of their > power even at the best of times, I agree that their disdain for the worship > of Immortals is probably a pragmatic decision, to keep clerical rivals from > posing any challenge to their authority. Having whole temples full of > mid-level clergy who can Dispel Magic (and don't even need a spellbook, to > do it!) would threaten mages' monopoly on political influence. > Still, on a philosophical point of view, most glantrians show their chaotic attitude through the refusal of worship. Every glantrian believes that he is the most important being in the universe, in some way. When we come to the very powerful glantrians, they believe that they can reach immortality with their own strenght, and that they don't need patrons. Those Glantrians who feel the need for "spiritual support" have Temples of Rad, but I believe that any self-respecting glantrian wizard has no need, or even time, for such things. Giampaolo Agosta *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:41:18 +0100 (MET) From: Agathokles Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ixion On Sat, 21 Nov 1998, James Ruhland wrote: > I'd have a hard tim scripting a situation where a Lawful Immortal would > expect Chaotic behavior from its followers (though with enough creativity, > I imagine it could be done), but for a chaotic one, or a neutral one (like > Ixion), I can see it happening. > I don't agree with this. A chaotic Immortal probably wouldn't like the "sheepish" attitude of his lawful followers. If the ethics were also different, things would go even worse. A CG Immortal would think that his LE followers worship him only to gain power, while a CE Immortal would find a LG follower a weakling (and then an unworthy one). Giampaolo Agosta *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 07:19:31 -0500 From: Jdaly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth The below post by Jenn hits the nail on the head about the Immortals. One could almost say there are three views of the Immortals, 1) How mortals see them, 2) How Immortals see themselves, and 3) How the DM sees them. Now, 1 and 2 both have a range, the mortal one being from awestruck unreasoning fear, to the rare (RARE) mortal who is aware that Immortals were once human and see them as being something less than divine. We could get into a serious debate on that one, I know. So I won't push any further since its not really the point I am after. When I was a kid, I believed what I heard in Sunday school (7 day creation, God, whole 9 works) and what I heard in Science class (billions of years of evolution). It didn't matter to me that the two were mutually exclusive. Adults were saying it, and therefore both had to be true. The contradiction never mattered. I can promise you, with faith so strong in Mystara, it doesn't matter whether Petra was around for creation or not. A Traladaran can reasonably be expected to have the unreasonable belief that Petra was both a mortal Queen and a goddess around forever. Jennifer Favia wrote: > >I think some are trying to make the views of the Immortals so > >'established' that they are losing the mystical qualities of the > >religions. > > Yes, that's true. One has to remember that regular people--and even the > PCs--do NOT have a DM's view of the Immortals. They revere them as > something mysterious and all-powerful, shadowed in mysterious faiths and > religions sometimes. They do *not* say "That myth can't be true, since > Petra (or whoever) wasn't an Immortal yet when the world was young," > because they don't *know* that! People believe things that are sometimes > illogical--that is the nature of faith. This doesn't have to turn into a > "they're not gods" debate, either--think of the worship of saints in the > middle ages...some of them were not even canonized, yet the people had > stories of their miracles and good deeds, even to the point that some > were believed to have raised people from the dead. > > As for Tim's myth itself, I sincerely believe that some folks are > missing the point entirely...It is meant as a reflection of the > *beliefs* of *some* Mystarans--right or not, they can still believe it. > (Not to mention that it's a darned good story;-) > > Jenn > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 07:25:29 -0500 From: Jdaly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Jennifer Favia wrote: > >Similar with deities. Faith is based, or should be(doesn't always work > that > >way in > >practice, i.e.blind faith) on what you know about a deity. > > > >Faith is based on what is known, but takes it a step further... I would argue that faith is always blind. Not in a bad way...but all the proofs of God's existence wouldn't sway the unbeliever. And scientific proof is not likely to sway a believer. That is what faith is about. Proof can strengthen ones belief, but I doubt it often leads to belief. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 07:29:19 -0500 From: Jdaly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - What the common Mystaran know about... Jennifer Favia wrote: > >Darokin, AC 1000. > >1) Does the common man know about the world being spherical and not > flat? > > Yes. It should be common knowledge, due to the reasons you list. > Further, isn't Mystara smaller than Earth--shouldn't the horizon show a > visible curve? I would tend to agree (unless of course, a DM just wanted to have Darokin disbelieve the tales as "Alphatian propaganda". Thyatis might even stir the pot by suggesting the Alphatians are lying...) But as for the curve, that was how many civilizations knew the earth was round. Since Mystara is smaller, it is even more obvious... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 07:30:22 -0500 From: Jdaly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - What the common Mystaran know about... You would be right if you were going by the Frank Mentzer Mystara...but the Bruce Heard Mystara is smaller. (kind of like the New American and the King James...) James Ruhland wrote: > > > > Yes. It should be common knowledge, due to the reasons you list. > > Further, isn't Mystara smaller than Earth--shouldn't the horizon show a > > visible curve? > > > IIRC, Mystara is exactly the same size of the Earth. > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 23:30:35 +0200 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology >I suspect that what Glantrians believe about Immortals is "the truth" -- but >most other Mystarans consider them to be as incorrect in this matter as >they are in many other matters. As some have stated, originally the Flaems merely wanted to remove clerics as competitors, hence the "no Immortals" philosophy. However, I think that with time, Glantrians might have acquired some knowledge about the Immortals' true origins; no doubt Rad dropped some hints to help spread this philosophy, him having first-hand experience. Shepherd: "Oh Rad, grant me your wisdom..." Voice of Rad in his head: "Ze Immortals are nothing more zen former mortals zat finished some quests... Trust me, I know." Shepherd: "Oh thank you, great Rad, I shall spread your word to all!" ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Blue Star aka Azure Star Dragon solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 16:38:37 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth On Mon, 23 Nov 1998, Jdaly wrote: > It didn't matter to me that the two were mutually exclusive. Adults were > saying it, and therefore both had to be true. The contradiction never > mattered. Contradictions are quite common in occultist belives aswell. In fact, they are considered to be true anyway, since Logic doesnt apply in an Occultist context. (Im not an occultist) So maybe its time that we lock our litle inner scientists into the closet and realize that the TRUTH is somethin we can never grasp. This applies to Mystarans aswell as people in the real world. The World was created in 7 days and the world was created in billions of years? Hey, we are talking about creatures who excisted before time here. In Mystaras case, we arent, but at least Time means something else to them. > I can promise you, with faith so strong in Mystara, it doesn't matter whether > Petra was around for creation or not. A Traladaran can reasonably be expected > to have the unreasonable belief that Petra was both a mortal Queen and a > goddess around forever. Actually, in this matter, I dont agree. IMC the Traldaran three are seen as mortals who were accepted into the ranks of the Immortals after their increadible deeds. Ofcourse, Traladarans perspective of history might be quite inaccurate, but at least there were taraladarans back then and it was sometime after creation. IMC according to the Traladarans the World was created by a group of Immortals whose names are forgotten. In this new age, only the Three, especially Halav are important... Hĺvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 16:45:56 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengarian Immortals (was Ixion) On Mon, 23 Nov 1998 Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: > Unfortunately, this passage raises even more questions than it answers. > For example, is it supposed to be "the truth", or is it the Ethengarian > belief about their patron Immortals? If it is the latter, then Ethengar > becomes another culture that does not believe the Immortals to be > eternal (since they are mentioned as having "achieved Immortality"), > despite their origins in the "Spirit World". And what is the nature of > this "Spirit World"? The AD&D supplement "Shaman" provides no > help at all for anyone who would theorize that the "Spirit World" is a > real place -- quite the contrary, in fact. At least the reference to the > Ethengarian Immortals not being of human origin is beyond dispute, > as WotI clearly depicts Tubak (Ixion) and Yamuga (Terra) as being of > non-human origin. I´s say that WotI is a Thyatian attempt to simplify the complexity of the Universe. Tubak is certainly not Ixion, and maybe..yet he is. The mind of an immortal is more complext than that of a human. Isnt it possiblře that the various identities of an immortal can all be real and separate aswell as one? "We are all Kosh," comes to mind.. I dont know if you get anything out of this.. Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 14:49:29 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: [MYSTARA] - Skin color in Mystara This is something that has always puzzled me. The Player's Guide to Thyatis lists Thyatyans, Kerendans and Hattians as having "light olive skin tone". Light olive?! I don't know how olives look like in California, but here in Europe olives are green and the only green-skinned people I know come from Mars :-) Am I missing something here or Thyatians are really a light-green skinned race? BTW: the coppery skin tone of Alphatian and Ochalean is similar to the skin color of American Indians? PS: it won't be bad to have a complete list of the skin color of the main Mystaran human races. Someone cares to make one? ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@gdr.net http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 20:22:04 +0100 From: Cobaye Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skin color in Mystara Fabrizio Paoli a écrit: > This is something that has always puzzled me. > The Player's Guide to Thyatis lists Thyatyans, Kerendans and Hattians as > having "light olive skin tone". > Light olive?! > I don't know how olives look like in California, but here in Europe olives > are green and the only green-skinned people I know come from Mars :-) > > Am I missing something here or Thyatians are really a light-green skinned > race? > > BTW: the coppery skin tone of Alphatian and Ochalean is similar to the skin > color of American Indians? > > PS: it won't be bad to have a complete list of the skin color of the main > Mystaran human races. Someone cares to make one? > ************** > Fabrizio Paoli > brizio@gdr.net > http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 > ************** > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. I agree with you about color skinned people of Mystara. I think it's better apply a different list of colored skin people. The interest is of course to make differents between men and women of different countries but for me there's much less different colors between an area to another, depends on climate, terrain and often world of origin, and time passed in Mystara at a localised place. But why not using light-green colored people? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 15:44:17 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skin color in Mystara On Mon, 23 Nov 1998, Cobaye wrote: > > having "light olive skin tone". I think they are referring to a slightly brownish - tanned skin tone. Olive complexions are NOT green :) Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 16:16:15 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Grids Does anyone know a good programs that does decent grids? By this I mean the type useful in creating map keys for the insides of buildings and the like. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 15:17:40 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Grids > > Does anyone know a good programs that does decent grids? By this I mean > the type useful in creating map keys for the insides of buildings and the > like. > Campaign Cartographer/Dungeon Designer can do good grids & maps. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 22:50:15 +0100 From: Cobaye Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skin color in Mystara SteelAngel a écrit: > On Mon, 23 Nov 1998, Cobaye wrote: > > > > having "light olive skin tone". > > I think they are referring to a slightly brownish - tanned skin tone. > Olive complexions are NOT green :) > > Ethan Objet: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skin color in Mystara la date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 20:22:04 +0100 De: Cobaye Répondre-A: mystara-l@MPGN.COM Société: Dragon A: mystara-l@MPGN.COM The interest is of course to make differents between men and women of different countries but for me there's much less different colors between an area to another, depends on climate, terrain and often world of origin, and time passed in Mystara at a localised place. But why not using light-green colored people? Fred "Cobaye" de Laval *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > > > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 20:40:59 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth At 18.55 22/11/98 -0600, Tim wrote: >I think the comman man worships more than one Immortal usually. He >doesn't have that close connection that clerics do so can't afford to >tick off any. >Now there are some >churches that have a pantheon of Immortals where there isn't one single >Immortal preached (ex. Church of Traladara, Church of Karameikos). So, if I understood correctly, you mean that a follower of the Church of Traladara don't just worship Petra or Halav or Zirchev, but all of them together. Right? While clerics that serve the CoT are clerics of a single Immortal, either Zirchev, Halav or Petra. Same goes with the CoK and its Immortals (Asterius, Ilsundal and I-forgot-the-other-ones) ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com brizio@gdr.net DM in City Of The Stars - Mystaran Almanac Assistant Student of Aerospace Enginnering - ICQ #1688817 Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 21:03:55 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth At 05.56 23/11/98 +0100, Alvin Gellert wrote: >Another fact that I think influences people very strongly is the spells >that the clerics are granted. In the real world, people have their faith, >and maybe some sort of more or less believeable miracles to base it on. But >in Mystara, there can be no doubt that there are some powerful creatures >who gives spells to their followers. This would be a strong base for >religions when there is very little doubt whether the creatures to be >worshipped really exists or not. Spell usage is another think that puzzles me. There's a not-so-high-level clerical spell that, though heavily restricted by the rules, can give Mystarans much more knowledge than the one RW people had in the Middle Age. That spell is "commune". A few simple questions that 10+ level clerics may have asked to their Immortal in the past centuries can be: - - Is the world flat? - - Were you once a mortal? - - Are there any other Immortals beside you? - - Will the Aquas Dolphins win the next hardball championship? - - Does someone inhabit Matera? ... Obviously the Immortal is not compelled to tell the truth, but: - - Would a lawful Immortal tell a lie to his clerics? - - Will a busy Immortal always remember to answer no (or yes) to certain questions? - - Will an Immortal never make a mistake? ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@gdr.net http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:14:42 -0500 From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skin color in Mystara Egyptian skin tone, and Arab in general, is often described as "olive". As for the coppery skin, I think the intention might be the lighter black skin...but I prefer, because of their other worldly origins, to actually think of it as "penny-colored". In that way, the characters can sometimes mistake, upon first meeting, Alphatians with polymorphed copper dragons (especially if you have players who read other sources and try to think ahead of their DM!). And it lends itself to the possibility of a relationship with dragons... Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > This is something that has always puzzled me. > The Player's Guide to Thyatis lists Thyatyans, Kerendans and Hattians as > having "light olive skin tone". > Light olive?! > I don't know how olives look like in California, but here in Europe olives > are green and the only green-skinned people I know come from Mars :-) > > Am I missing something here or Thyatians are really a light-green skinned > race? > > BTW: the coppery skin tone of Alphatian and Ochalean is similar to the skin > color of American Indians? > > PS: it won't be bad to have a complete list of the skin color of the main > Mystaran human races. Someone cares to make one? > ************** > Fabrizio Paoli > brizio@gdr.net > http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 > ************** > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 02:33:42 +0100 From: Cobaye Subject: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth - an answer to fabricio - --------------5354B77C3E60DC66DFD068E4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Obviously the Immortal is not compelled to tell the truth, but: - - Would a lawful Immortal tell a lie to his clerics? re: truth or ly is very relativ to the one who he's talking with. - - Will a busy Immortal always remember to answer no (or yes) to certain questions? re: look at one thing: we are talking on a server with all sorts of messages. Imagin an immortall using that sort of system. Some questions are of more interest than others for him aren't they? - - Will an Immortal never make a mistake? RE: Everybody (clerics only) says that immortalls never make a mistake !? it's great for players that immortals mke mistakes isn't it ? - --------------5354B77C3E60DC66DFD068E4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Obviously the Immortal is not compelled to tell the truth, but:
- Would a lawful Immortal tell a lie to his clerics? re: truth or ly is very relativ to the one who he's talking with.
- Will a busy Immortal always remember to answer no (or yes) to certain
questions? re: look at one thing: we are talking on a server with all sorts of messages. Imagin an immortall using that sort of system. Some questions are of more interest than others for him aren't they?
- Will an Immortal never make a mistake?
 RE: Everybody (clerics only) says that immortalls never make a mistake !?
it's great for players that immortals mke mistakes isn't it ?
  - --------------5354B77C3E60DC66DFD068E4-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #719 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, November 24 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 720 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Grids Re: [MYSTARA] - Skin color in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Skin color in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengarian Immortals (was Ixion) Re: [MYSTARA] - Skin color in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengarian Immortals (was Ixion) [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Commune (was: A Creation Myth) Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology Re: [MYSTARA] - What the common Mystaran know about... Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Commune (was: A Creation Myth) [MYSTARA] - Church of Darokin (Long) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 20:48:26 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Grids In a message dated 11/23/98 4:49:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, au998@freenet.carleton.ca writes: << Does anyone know a good programs that does decent grids? By this I mean the type useful in creating map keys for the insides of buildings and the like. >> hey geoff. without the specialized software (CC) i usually use paintbrush that come with most windows based pcs. what you can do is fill an area with a dark color. then hit the erase icon and shape it into a square. go with the largest size and use it to make the grids. whallah...you have uniform grids suitable for printing or painting a dungeon. doing a whole sheet like this would take time. you can speed things up by making a small grid section and copying and pasting it out to full size. you can then save this and use it as the foundation for subsequent graphs. after that it is just a matter of saving subsequent drawings as something else and keeping the original grids as templates for future use. look at those gifs of the Torpin i sent out a while back. alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 20:51:37 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skin color in Mystara In a message dated 11/23/98 5:30:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, jdaly@friend.ly.net writes: << Egyptian skin tone, and Arab in general, is often described as "olive". As for the coppery skin, I think the intention might be the lighter black skin...but I prefer, because of their other worldly origins, to actually think of it as "penny-colored". In that way, the characters can sometimes mistake, upon first meeting, Alphatians with polymorphed copper dragons (especially if you have players who read other sources and try to think ahead of their DM!). And it lends itself to the possibility of a relationship with dragons... >> then there is the simplest RW illustration of copper skinned folk. CopperTone Suntan lotion. dark sun tanned skin. so your common alphatians are imo poster children for suntan oil ads....minus the tan lines of course :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 21:23:39 -0500 From: Andrew Toth Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skin color in Mystara At 02:49 PM 11/23/98 +0100, you wrote: >This is something that has always puzzled me. >The Player's Guide to Thyatis lists Thyatyans, Kerendans and Hattians as >having "light olive skin tone". >Light olive?! >I don't know how olives look like in California, but here in Europe olives >are green and the only green-skinned people I know come from Mars :-) > >Am I missing something here or Thyatians are really a light-green skinned >race? > >BTW: the coppery skin tone of Alphatian and Ochalean is similar to the skin >color of American Indians? > >PS: it won't be bad to have a complete list of the skin color of the main >Mystaran human races. Someone cares to make one? Think they're refering to olive oil color, but then again, there are a number of shades with olive oil, depending on the processing. Beyowlf Steely Blue Dragon -==UDIC==- |/ "Ours is not to reason why, but to blow this joint before we die" -Ratrap, BeastWars *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 09:20:39 +0100 (MET) From: Agathokles Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Creation Myth On Mon, 23 Nov 1998, [iso-8859-1] Hĺvard Rřnne Faanes wrote: > > Actually, in this matter, I dont agree. IMC the Traldaran three are seen > as mortals who were accepted into the ranks of the Immortals after their > increadible deeds. Ofcourse, Traladarans perspective of history might be > quite inaccurate, but at least there were taraladarans back then and it > was sometime after creation. IMC according to the Traladarans the World > was created by a group of Immortals whose names are forgotten. In this new > age, only the Three, especially Halav are important... > Truly, the idea of Immortals who, in some more or less far past, didn't exist, shouldn't be so strange for the common Mystaran. After all, in RW polytheistic religions world often wasn't created by the main god (see greek or norse myths). In these religions, the world is created by "primordial entities" (Night, Chaos, and similar things for the greeks, a Giant for the norse...): for Mystara, "primordial entities" would probably be elemental forces. On the other hand, eternal Immortals would probably be most common in "monotheistic" mystaran faiths (which are not so common in the Known World): undoubtedly, Narvaezans believe that Ixion created the world, and the same could work for Huleans and Bozdogan and so on. Giampaolo Agosta *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 04:56:11 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengarian Immortals (was Ixion) In a message dated 1998-11-23 11:06:32 Eastern Standard Time, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no writes: > I´s say that WotI is a Thyatian attempt to simplify the complexity of the > Universe. Tubak is certainly not Ixion, and maybe..yet he is. The mind of > an immortal is more complext than that of a human. Isnt it possiblře that > the various identities of an immortal can all be real and separate aswell > as one? "We are all Kosh," comes to mind.. > > I dont know if you get anything out of this.. Spoken like a Vorlon.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 05:25:48 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skin color in Mystara In a message dated 1998-11-23 14:10:37 Eastern Standard Time, brizio@lunet.it writes: > This is something that has always puzzled me. > The Player's Guide to Thyatis lists Thyatyans, Kerendans and Hattians as > having "light olive skin tone". > Light olive?! > I don't know how olives look like in California, but here in Europe olives > are green and the only green-skinned people I know come from Mars :-) "Olive" is also the term used to describe the skin tone of southern Europeans such as Sicilians or Spaniards -- so Thyatians have a basically Mediterranean appearance. The only green skinned race on Mystara that I know of would be the people of Emerond. > Am I missing something here or Thyatians are really a light-green skinned > race? > > BTW: the coppery skin tone of Alphatian and Ochalean is similar to the skin > color of American Indians? On that one I am inclined to agree with Alex -- they have a well tanned appearance, in contrast to the extremely pale appearance of "Pure" Alphatians. > PS: it won't be bad to have a complete list of the skin color of the main > Mystaran human races. Someone cares to make one? Most Mystaran peoples look something like the real world peoples that they are based on, if any. In particular: Neathar = White/European Oltec = Red/Amerinidian to Yellow/Asian Tanagoro = Black/African People on the Savage Coast have a reddish tinge to their skins regardless of racial origins. People of the "Known World" would for the most part have a Caucasian appearance, with a few exceptions -- so for anyone who lives in Europe or the United States, the people that you see on the street would not look too much out of place in Darokin or Thyatis. In any case -- are there any peoples of the "Known World" whose real world origins are too obscure to give you an idea of their general appearance? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 16:47:50 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengarian Immortals (was Ixion) On Tue, 24 Nov 1998 Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 1998-11-23 11:06:32 Eastern Standard Time, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no > writes: > > > I´s say that WotI is a Thyatian attempt to simplify the complexity of the > > Universe. Tubak is certainly not Ixion, and maybe..yet he is. The mind of > > an immortal is more complext than that of a human. Isnt it possiblře that > > the various identities of an immortal can all be real and separate aswell > > as one? "We are all Kosh," comes to mind.. > > > > I dont know if you get anything out of this.. > > Spoken like a Vorlon.... Thanks! :) Hĺvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 16:57:52 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Commune (was: A Creation Myth) On Mon, 23 Nov 1998, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > Spell usage is another think that puzzles me. > There's a not-so-high-level clerical spell that, though heavily restricted > by the rules, can give Mystarans much more knowledge than the one RW people > had in the Middle Age. > That spell is "commune". > A few simple questions that 10+ level clerics may have asked to their > Immortal in the past centuries can be: > - Is the world flat? > - Were you once a mortal? > - Are there any other Immortals beside you? > - Will the Aquas Dolphins win the next hardball championship? > - Does someone inhabit Matera? > ... > > Obviously the Immortal is not compelled to tell the truth, but: > - Would a lawful Immortal tell a lie to his clerics? > - Will a busy Immortal always remember to answer no (or yes) to certain > questions? > - Will an Immortal never make a mistake? You have just hit a very weak spot in the xD&D magic system. This is how I would treat this IMC, regardless of the spell-description. When a cleric consults with his Immortals he will never ever get a clear answer. The answer will come to him through interpreting what he sees in a dream, the stars, by looking into a fire, watching the flames etc. The answer will always have room for many interpretations. Another thing. A cleric wont ask questions that are considered blasphemous and he wont ask questions he wont have a reason to ask. Unless someone witha certain credibility claims that the earth is round, he wont bother to ask his immortal about it. Abusing such spells will not gain the cleric his immortals favour. "Is the earth flat? Why would I ask my Patron that question? Anyone can see that the world is flat..." Why am I doing this? To preserve a certain medeival feel in the setting. If clerics can ask their immortals anything and expect a clear answer, then there will be no mysteries left on Mystara. Sincerely, Hĺvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 17:09:32 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology On Sun, 22 Nov 1998 Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: > This description raises an interesting question -- How do Glantrians regard > the Immortals? They certainly do not consider them to be worthy of worship > or obedience. But do they believe this because they consider the Immortals > totally alien to human experience, or because they have some inkling that > the Immortals were once mortal? In ancient Scandinavia, some people were known as "Godless." They believed in "eiga makt" or their own power. They would not make offerings to any god since they thought they considered themselves powerful enough to manage without the interferece of any god. I Think Glantrians may have a similar attitude. They have access to increadible powers. Powers they have gained through the pursiut of knowledge. A common attitude may also be that Glantrians dont want to be made dependant on more powerful beings merely because they provide power. Alphatians on the other hand.. I came up with this theory about Alphatian Clerics. Alphatian clerics are mainly the children of nobles who are born without the talent for Wizard magic. The only way they can maintain their social position is to make a deal with a greater power. They see it more like making a deal with a demon, than showing the devout faith that other Mystarans do. And if you are going to make a deal with a demon, why dont get the best deal, right? I also suspect that Temples, especially in Alphatia charge a fee for joining their order. This ensures that only thos of noble birth can join the churches and does also provide a decent income for the temple. Hĺvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 17:22:18 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - What the common Mystaran know about... On Sun, 22 Nov 1998, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > This discussion about Immortals made me think about what the common > Mystaran knows about his world. > > Darokin, AC 1000. > 1) Does the common man know about the world being spherical and not flat? I´d say no. Mosy people dont have time to worry about such questions though. Some scholars may suspect it, but this isnt a very important question that will affect anyones lives is it. So why would they tell anyone about it? > 2) Does the common man know about the other planets in Mystara system? Some planets may be seen at night, but the common man wont know the difference between planets and stars. As another poster said: they are just lights in the sky. Astrologists will know their names though. > Darokin, AC 1010 > 3) What's the reaction of the common man upon knowing that the world is > Hollow? I dont think the common man will get to know this. Some may hear stories, and their reaction will vary depending on who is telling it to them. "the world is hollow? This is a really fascination story you tell master bard. Let me buy you a decent meal." or "Hah, you damned liar! Get your troupe of thieves out of me inn!" > > My opinion about #1 and #2: > 1) I think yes. Explorers and merchants have probably gone all the way > round Mystara both by sea (e.g. Minrothad merchants) and by air (e.g. > Alphatian and Heldannic). Schools and universities are fairly common on > Mystara and culture is quite widespread in the KW, so I would say this is > common knowledge. It might be known in certain circles, but not common knowledge. Alphatian nobles will know, but they have no reason to share this with commoners. > Only a few people know about the existence of the HW, but they keep it > secret because of military reasons. I dont really see the military importance of the Hollow World. Considering the resources involved in leading an expedition there, I dont see any reason why anyone would want to go there except out of curiousity. > 2) Don't know. In Alphatia I would have said yes, in Darokin I don't know. > Mages, sages, clerics and learned people probably know about stars and > planets, but do they care to teach it to the common man. Probably not. Hĺvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 10:51:43 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Commune (was: A Creation Myth) > > > Spell usage is another think that puzzles me. > > There's a not-so-high-level clerical spell that, though heavily restricted > > by the rules, can give Mystarans much more knowledge than the one RW people > > had in the Middle Age. > > That spell is "commune". > > A few simple questions that 10+ level clerics may have asked to their > > Immortal in the past centuries can be: > > - Is the world flat? > > - Were you once a mortal? > > - Are there any other Immortals beside you? > > - Will the Aquas Dolphins win the next hardball championship? > > - Does someone inhabit Matera? > > ... > > > > Obviously the Immortal is not compelled to tell the truth, > an Immortal, including a Lawful one, isn't compelled to even answer. And, if the Clerics go around asking lots of "spurious" questions (the Immortal in question is the one who decides what is a "spurious" question), then the Cleric is unlikely to recieve the spell for awhile, as a minimum punishment. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 18:12:58 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Church of Darokin (Long) Time is memory's worst enemy... Just to remind all of you of an old article detailing the Church of Darokin I wrote (which is also available on my site at this URL: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967), here it is. Hope you'll like... PS: this can be inserted somewhere in the Immortals and Creation Myth discussion.. DM THE CHURCH OF DAROKIN by MARCO DALMONTE Pantheon of the Church Asterius (Head): Patron of Trade and Communications Koryis: Patron of Peace and Prosperity Ixion: Patron of Law and Honesty The Twelve Watchers: Patrons of Crafts and Work Valerias: Patroness of Love and Charity General Description of the Church Darokin is "a land of leftovers" and the Church of Darokin reflects this mishmash of cultures and faiths. The Immortals worshipped by the church are all in friendly terms among them and above all some of them have been largely followed in Darokin long before the foundation of the Church itself, so they are well liked by the darokinians. Asterius is the unchallenged Head of the Pantheon, since he's always been the most revered deity in Darokin (as patron of Trade and Communications, the basis of the darokinian society). The First Patriarch who founded the Church back in AC 930 is himself a devout priest of Asterius: he realized that to unite the darokinians from the religious point of view he would have needed a strong religious figure to take as an example, and Asterius the Trader was the best candidate. However, he also understood that the Church of Darokin should have been a polytheistic cult in order to incarnate the real spirit of the nation, a country based on the multiracial integration. This way he also added to the pantheon the other Immortals who best embodied the ideals of Darokin: freedom, honesty, sacrifice and equality. Darokin is the most advanced, democratic and liberal state in the Known World (and possibly on Mystara). Almost every church has at least one "mission" in Darokin's territory, (mostly) peacefully competing and coexisting. Usually there are clerics from different orders in towns large enough to support several clerics. They generally engage in petty competition, but they share the same general goals of prosperity and protection for the villages. The Church of Darokin embodies the epythet of the "typical darokinian church", and draws many traditions from the other faiths affiliated to it. But this doesn't mean that the Church of Darokin worships ALL of these Immortals (it would not last much if it put side to side a cleric of Koryis and one of Thor, for example). The Church of Darokin worships those immortals that most embodies the "spirit of the nation", a spirit of freedom, sacrifice, equality and endurance against the adversities. Asterius, Ixion, Koryis, the Twelve Watchers and Valerias are the ones that fit this role. As a final note, it must be said that the Church of Darokin is not the most powerful church of the Old World, nor it is much widespread (aside from Darokin itself), mainly because it is a church founded FOR the Darokinians. It is surely the most important in the Republic, however the Church of Darokin is NOT the official state religion, because Darokin has no state religion whatsoever: this way nobody gets offended or can be punished for what is normally believed a very personal matter. The Church respects the right to worship other faiths, but it constantly tries to "direct people on the right way" as much as the other cults do. However, it will never issue a holy crusade against a nation or a faith just because it goes against the Church's precepts, unless it threatens directly Darokin or the very existence of the Church of Darokin. The common vestment of the cleric of the Church is a besant tunic with a golden circle on the upper torso. Each cleric uses the holy symbol of its deity. History of the Church The Church of Darokin is a young church much like that of Karameikos. It dates back to the X century and was founded in AC 930 by father Simon Stone, a priest of Asterius, who is now its High Patriarch. The different Immortals worshipped by the Church became popular in Darokin in different periods. The most ancient one is obviously Asterius, whose faith dates back to the I century AC, when the first merchants began to prosper and to grow in power under the protection of the elves and of the Eastwind dinasty. Valerias is the worldwide Patroness of Love and she was already worshipped in Darokin at the same time Asterius was, probably brought there by some Thyatian priests. The Twelve Watchers were already known and worshipped in Darokin by all the workers (much licke Asterius) during the Attleson dinasty, while Koryis' faith was first introduced in Darokin by fleeing Alphatians (Koryis is an Alphatian deity in origin) in the IX century AC (after the Ylari kicked them off the Alayisian Basin) and later by Ochalean priests who came to Darokin at the beginning of the X century. Similarly, Ixion's faith was one of the last additions, brought to Darokin by Alphatians (IX century), Ethengarians (as Tubak, in the II century) and fleeing Ispans who chose to settle in Darokin instead of going to the Savage Coast at the beginning of AC 900. The High Patriarch of the Church is an old wizened man in his eighties named Simon Stone, who happens to be also the founder of the Church. He is a cleric of Asterius who felt the need to unify the faiths of his beloved land to make the citizens feel more akin and closer to each other and to destroy any possible cultural and ethnic barrier still present in Darokin after the Great Merge. He founded the Church at the age of 30 and has subsequently assumed many potions of Longevity in his youth to fight against the passing of time only for one reason: to accomplish his dream. After the Church of Darokin has affirmed itself as the most prominent in Darokin, he stopped drinking potions and continued to age normally. He is now 83 (real age 115) and has already chosen his successor, a promising cleric of the Twelve Watchers in his thirties. The current patriarch will surely die before AC 1020. Organization of the Church The Church is ruled by its High Patriarch (currently Simon Stone, C36 of Asterius), who is helped by a Council of Archbishops (clerics of all the Immortals worshipped) representing all the regions of Darokin (very similar to Darokin political government). The High Patriarch also has a special advisor called Holy Legate (currently Lino Volterra, C12 of the Twelve Watchers) that helps him in the burocratic affaires and examining diplomatical and religious issues presented weekly by the other priests. The Holy Legate is personally chosen by the High Patriarch among his more experienced clerics (of level 9th or higher) and he is destined to become the new High Patriarch at the death of the current one. There are only three exceptions to this rule: 1.If the Holy Legate dies before the succession. In this case, if the High Patriarch is still alive, he chooses a substitute. Otherwise if he's dead already, the Council of Archbishops votes to elect the new High Patriarch (there must be a majority of two thirds of the voting members to elect the Patriarch). 2.If the High Patriarch decides he is not worthy anymore to succeed him. In this case he simply chooses another successor and has the right to abstain from giving any reasons for his decision. 3.If at the death of the High Patriarch the Council of Archbishops decides (with a majority of two thirds as explained above) the Holy Legate is not worthy of the position. In this case however, the Council MUST explain the reasons for this decision and the voting must be based on the reasons and proofs put forward by the detractors of the Holy Legate (that's to say: no proofs of his faults, no motion against him can be passed). There is one Archbishop for each major city of the Republic (with a population of 10,000 or more) for a total of seven Archbishops in the Council (the Archbishop of Darokin City is the High Patriarch himself who also lives there). The Archbishops administrate the religious and commercial business of the Archdiocese they represent, which is made up of smaller Bishophrics each one administered by a Bishop. The Archbishops have also the power to impeach the election of a new High Patriarch and to issue new proclamations or religious laws (majority of two thirds of the voting members needed), which must then be approved also by the Patriarch (he has the power to veto anything). The Archbishops are elected among the Bishops of a specific Archdiocese by all the other Bishops and Archbishops: the ones that obtains the most votes wins the title. The Archbishop remains in charge until his death or until he is expelled by the Council or by the High Patriarch for some strong reason (in this case even the Patriarch needs a reason to exhautorate an Archbishop). The Archbishop must be at least 7th level in power to be elected. There is one Bishop for each Heartland inhabited by darokinians, for a total of 33 Bishops. Each one administrates the religious and commercial business of the Bishophric he's in charge of and must always answer to his direct superior, the Archbishop of the Archdiocese his Bishophric belongs to. The Bishops have the power to ordain Priests and to publicly bohicot those firms or individuals that go against the preachings of the Church and that threaten it or Darokin. For stronger and legal actions they must first ask permission to the Archbishop and then sue the offender legally (using Diplomats or Judges). The Bishops are chosen by the Archbishop that rules the bishophric they belong to among available the Priests of level 7th or higher. The Bishops remain in charge until they die or they are promoted to Archbishop or they are expelled from the clergy (see above). To become a Bishop a cleric must have reached at least 7th level and there must be a vacant charge, of course. There is usually one (or more) Priest(s) for each village (with a population of 300 or higher) in Darokin, and each Priest has one or more Acolytes that help him. The Priest attends the ordinary adn daily duties of the common cleric: he visits the followers to help them, he preaches every day during the holy mass to strengthen the faith of his parishioners, he attends the sick ones and offers solace to those who ask for it. He is also the spokesman of the common people when dealing with the hieararchy of the Church and can present petitions of any kind or any other request to his superiors (the Bishop or Archbishop -even though some Bishops don't particularly like to be stepped over). The Priest can enlist new Acolytes inside the order and teach them the basis of the faith in order to let them become priests in the future. Finally, he is the first defender of the village and of the Republic and must always show this to other people with his actions. The Priests are automatically ordained by their Bishop when they reach 3rd level and they are usually given the duty to found a new parish. If no villages are big enough to become a parish inside the Bishopric, then the Priest is allowed to move to another Bishopric or Archdiocese (thus changing the superiors he must answer to) or to become a missionary in another country or to stay within an already existing parish to help its Priest(s). No more than four priests are allowed to live in a single parish, though. A cleric must reach the 3rd level to be a Priest. Finally, on the lowest step of the ladder of the clergy there are the Acolytes, the novices who want to become priests of the Church and study with a priest to obtain the required experience. They have no powers basically and must always obey the priests, helping him in his businesses and in turn he teaches them the precepts of the faith and the way to become a good cleric. The Acolytes must petition a Priest to enter the church and the priest has the right to choose or reject the applicants. A priest cannot have more than five acolytes with him. The Acolytes are always cleric of 1st or 2nd level and must not leave the priest until they reach 3rd level and are ordained Priest of the Church of Darokin. If they do go away they cannot enter the Church anymore, but this doesn't mean they will loose the clerical powers they've gained, provided they continue to worship and work for the Immortal they've chosen. Wandering Priests of the Church The Church of Darokin allows the existence of wandering priests, clerics that do not stay within a specific parish or Archdiocese but roam around the world trying to spread their beliefs. It tolerates them but do not really "encourages" them to take this road, because they feel that the priests should better stay and work for the welfare of Darokin. However the clergy know that it is its duty to spread the word of their Immortals, and for this only reason it permits the clerics who ask for it to go around the world in what is commonly referred as "cathechistic mission". The wandering priests (or Missionaries) now answer directly to their Archbishop and they must contact him every 5 years to keep him informed of their progresses and successes. If however the Archbishop is not satisfied or feels the need to call the Missionary at home for a special job, he can do it and the priest must answer immediately or be later trailed inside the Church hierarchy for insubordination. The Wandering Priests (Missionaries) must have reached at least 3rd level to leave their parish. Ethics of the Church The Head of the Church Pantheon is Asterius, and the Ring of Darokin is opened to every Immortal who has a particular love for that country (the Twelve Watchers are only Initiate but they/he is a distinguished member as his other Hierarch collegues). The Church exists to help darokinians (or anyone else) live together in spite of the differences existing between them. The Church teaches to tolerate others, to work for the community and the welfare of the state and to behave honestly, because only the honest and trustworthy people will be rewarded both in this life and in the afterlife. The Church also operates many hostels for the beggars and the poor people unable to find a work (few in Darokin, so it's an easy job). The Afterlife The Church of Darokin teaches his followers to worship all the Immortal Patrons, and each one has a heaven for the souls to go in the afterlife. However, since nobody can be perfect and worship equally all immortals as a real saint (like High Patriarch Simon Stone), each believer will go to the heaven he mostly deserved basing on his actions in this life (for example: if he helped mantain or restore peace, he could go to Koryis', Valerias' or Asterius' heaven - -Asterius is patron of communication and this is the basis for every peace talk). This is the list of the heavens: Asterius (Patron of Trade and Communication): Crystal Halls Koryis (Patron of Peace and Prosperity): Fields of Dreams Ixion (Patron of Law and Honesty): Bright Kingdom The Twelve Watchers (Patrons of Crafts and Work): City of Perfection Valerias (Patroness of Love and Charity): Hall of Roses But what happens to those who don't live up to the beliefs of the faith? The Church of Darokin condemns more the false believers than the non-believers: in fact, the first ones have sworn to follow and to worship the Immortals but they haven't done it at all, whereas the second ones may not follow the immortals' ways, but at least they never pretended to. So there will be punishment for those who trespass against immortal laws, be them believers or non-believers. Among non-believers, those who acted following the Church principles even without worshipping Immortals will be given a second chance to recognize their error and to bow to the greater powers: they will be reborn on this land until they swear fealty to one immortal. Believers will be given another chance to prove themselves worthy of the heavens and will be reborn on the world (Outer Plane) where the heavens exist: there they will have to overcome adversities and find their way to the Immortal Heaven before the end of their life, or they will be condemned to wander forever outside of the heaven, being allowed to see what they lost but not to enter. They will then live in a state of non-life, which will be somewhat between life and undeath, free to act as they will until the time will come when the Immortal will forgive them all and open the doors of his heaven to these lost souls. Non-believers will instead be sent to Limbo, where they will linger forever trying to escape the fiends and demoniac beings that prowl that desolated world, without hope for a better tomorrow. NOTE 1: According to Bruce Heard's articles on Dragon, Limbo is where people not faithful to their beliefs go. The Church of Darokin identifies this place with the Hell of non-believers because it's populated by those who didn't follow their moral and ethic beliefs and who are now condemned to live as independent people, detached from the deities and from each other. There could be no worse place for a church that preaches communion, peace and friendliness among people. To the Church of Darokin Limbo is basically a big representation of the real world clouded in a perpetual dusk by a cap of dust. The inhabitants cannot see each other clearly, thus they cannot distinguish clearly between other souls and demoniac spirits that haunts that wasteland, and so they live in constant fear. NOTE 2: of course, what happens to non-believers is highly debatable, since this cathegory comprises all the atheists (and there are many). This is just what the clerics think, not necessarily what really happens. As for other religions, the Church of Darokin tolerates them as long as they don't preach beliefs or an ethic code that go against the church principles. Resurrection and Undead According to the Church of Darokin beliefs, real followers have only one chance in life to prove they're worthy of the Immortals' reward (heaven). Thus the priests of the Church are forbidden to Raise or Resurrect any dead believer: after all, they have already been judged by the Immortals once they died, and the priests cannot oppose the immortals' will in any way. Any priest discovered to perform such a ritual will be expelled immediately from the Church. However, the priests are not forbidden to Raise non-believers, especially because they will then have the chance to convert the non-believer and to make him see the true faith. They will usually try to know the way the non-believer acted in his life and the way he died, and only after evaluating the pros and cons he will judge if there can still be hope for his soul or not. This way, about a week will usually pass before a priest of the Church of Darokin decides whether to raise a person or not. For the same reason, the enemy of the Church is the Undead race. The priests of Ixion in particular fight a personal crusade to eradicate this plague from the face of the world, considering undead no more than souls that have been negated their final judgment. It is their duty to put these restless dead to sleep once and for all, both for their sake and for the livings'. The priests of the Church refuse to Animate or Speak with the Dead because it is considered immoral and unclean to meddle with the afterlife. The followers respect and pay tribute to their beloved dead ones, but they must never try to communicate with them nor to bring them to life again, because this way they will negate them what the Immortals have arranged for them. For these reasons, the priests that belong to the Church of Darokin have not access to the spells Speak with the Dead and Animate Dead, getting instead the use of Protection from Poison (3rd level Druids' spell) and Control Temperature 10' radius (4th level Druids' spell). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #720 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, November 24 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 721 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Church of Darokin (Long) Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengarian Immortals (was Ixion) Re: [MYSTARA] - Skin color in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Skin color in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - What the common Mystaran know about... Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Commune (was: A Creation Myth) Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Commune (was: A Creation Myth) Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology Re: [MYSTARA] - Church of Darokin (Long) Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengarian Immortals (was Ixion) Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Commune (was: A Creation Myth) Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Commune (was: A Creation Myth) Re: [MYSTARA] - What the common Mystaran know about... Re: [MYSTARA] - What the common Mystaran know about... Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Commune (was: A Creation Myth) Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Commune (was: A Creation Myth) Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Commune (was: A Creation Myth) Re: [MYSTARA] - Grids Re: [MYSTARA] - Grids Re: [MYSTARA] - What the common Mystaran know about... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 18:40:22 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Church of Darokin (Long) On Tue, 24 Nov 1998, DM wrote: > Time is memory's worst enemy... > Just to remind all of you of an old article detailing the Church of Darokin > I wrote (which is also available on my site at this URL: > http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967), here it is. IMC there are Three major human religions in the Known World. 1)The Thyatian Faith. This is the religion dominant in the Thyatian Empire, Karameikos, Heldann(among the Knights) Darokin, and Ylaruam. The Eternal Truth, the Churches of Darokin and the Church of Karameikos are fractions within the religion. They have different organizations and some philosofical disagreements, but are at most no more different than Judaism, Christianity and Islam. (Same creation myths, basically same ethics etc..) The Thyatian faith has adopted some elements from other religions such as immortals from the Dwarven, Elven, Antalian, Traladaran and Ochaelan Pantheons. 2) The Antalian Faith. This is the religion dominant in the Northern Reaches, Norwold, Wendar and among lower classes in Heldann. 3)Shamanism, of various types can be found in Athruagin, Ethengar and also to a certain degree in Karameikos and in the Northern Reaches. In addition you have minor religions like that on the Elves, The Dwarves, the Hin and the Traladarans. Even though temples may be specifically built to one Immortal, followers often make offerings to several temples as long as they are part of the same religion. The Way of the Eternal Truth and the Church of Karameikos see themselves as separate religions and dont allow their followers to worship any other immortals. People of the Northlands believe that their Immortals are connected with their own lands. In other lands, they often honour native immortals of those lands to gain favours from these. Hĺvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 14:56:49 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengarian Immortals (was Ixion) >Ah -- I found it on p. 38 of the DM's guide portion of Gaz 12. The relevant >paragraph says, "The Immortals of the Ethengars are spirits who have >achieved Immortality in the Spirit World, but who have a close affinity >with the Ethengars. As part of their path to Immortality, these Immortals >helped the Ethengars to establish themselves on the steppes and so >became an intrinsic part of the Ethengars' beliefs. Their awesome powers >have been explained in terms of the Ethengars' way of life, in the same >way as all Immortals become a part of any culture's religious beliefs. >While Yamuga, Tubak, and Cretia are not Immortals of human origins, >they take an active interest in the development of the Ethengars, taking >on the same roles as do Immortals honored by other races and cultures." > >Unfortunately, this passage raises even more questions than it answers. >For example, is it supposed to be "the truth", or is it the Ethengarian >belief about their patron Immortals? If it is the latter, then Ethengar >becomes another culture that does not believe the Immortals to be >eternal (since they are mentioned as having "achieved Immortality"), >despite their origins in the "Spirit World". My guess would be that it's the "DM's Truth", not what the Ethengarians themselves believe. After all, the Ethengar tribes believe the world's a giant yurt; the concept of "creatures from other planes" -- even if they're from the Spirit World -- probably doesn't have any meaning for them. >And what is the nature of >this "Spirit World"? The AD&D supplement "Shaman" provides no >help at all for anyone who would theorize that the "Spirit World" is a >real place -- quite the contrary, in fact. Despite belated attempts to shoehorn it into the AD&D universe, Mystara's got very little to do with the version of the cosmos portrayed in PS products ... never mind, a lousy supplement like "Shaman"! :-P If anything in AD&D could be considered analogous to the Spirit World, it's probably the Birthright setting's Shadow World: an eerie, surreal alternate plane, brought into synch with Mystara/Cerilia by a disaster of colossal proportion, that's superimposed upon the PCs' world and can be accessed at certain geographic locales or with the aid of those "in the know" (shamans for one, BR halflings for the other). If you REALLY have to define it more than Gaz12 already has, call the Spirit World a "demiplane"; that's what TSR does, when it can't make up its mind where to put something. ;-) >At least the reference to the >Ethengarian Immortals not being of human origin is beyond dispute, >as WotI clearly depicts Tubak (Ixion) and Yamuga (Terra) as being of >non-human origin. Except that Tubak and Yamuga are described as having earned their Immortality by helping the Ethengar tribes survive and adapt, after the GroF. Ixion's a LOT older than that; he's one of the founders of the HW setting, which pre-dated Blackmoor by millennia. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 15:22:30 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skin color in Mystara >> This is something that has always puzzled me. >> The Player's Guide to Thyatis lists Thyatyans, Kerendans and Hattians as >> having "light olive skin tone". >> Light olive?! >> I don't know how olives look like in California, but here in Europe olives >> are green and the only green-skinned people I know come from Mars :-) > >"Olive" is also the term used to describe the skin tone of southern >Europeans such as Sicilians or Spaniards -- so Thyatians have a >basically Mediterranean appearance. Perhaps "olive" refers to the color of olive tree wood/bark...? I don't know if that's a similar shade to Mediterraneans' skin, but it makes more sense than literal olive-green skin. I think most of us on the MML or MMB assume that Hattians are actually paler than the other Thyatian peoples, despite what the Players' Guide says. Certainly, the color artwork in various products depicts Hattian-descended folks -- like Prince Jaggar, Ludwig von Hendriks, or other Germanic-named NPCs -- with Nordic/Antalian complexions ... something Jaggar certainly didn't inherit from the Alphatian (copper or blue-highlighted) side of his family! >The only green skinned race on Mystara that I know of would be the >people of Emerond. The aliens from the "Beagle" really DID have light green skin! But I doubt if they've got any modern-day green-skinned descendents ... although a few stray "Beagle"-imported genes might have helped to turn red/brown Oltecs into the Ethengars, given that yellowish/Asiatic skin would lie somewhere between the two. :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 17:01:43 -0500 From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skin color in Mystara Sharon Dornhoff wrote: > > >The only green skinned race on Mystara that I know of would be the > >people of Emerond. > > The aliens from the "Beagle" really DID have light green skin! But I doubt > if they've got any modern-day green-skinned descendents ... although a few > stray "Beagle"-imported genes might have helped to turn red/brown Oltecs > into the Ethengars, given that yellowish/Asiatic skin would lie somewhere > between the two. :-) Actually Sharon, you give me a rather compelling idea. In DA1, the Thyatians are supposedly direct descendants of the Thonians...the language itself has supposedly not changed in 3000 years. Ahem... *grits teeth* Whew, sorry...that particular idea always gives me a reaction... Anyway, what if alien blood mixes with Thonian blood over time to create two distinct strains, that of Hattian and that of the olive-toned Thyatian. And actually, personally, I am not averse to the Hattians being olive-toned as well... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 00:10:00 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - What the common Mystaran know about... At 17.22 24/11/98 +0100, Hĺvard Rřnne Faanes wrote: >> Darokin, AC 1010 >> 3) What's the reaction of the common man upon knowing that the world is >> Hollow? > >I dont think the common man will get to know this. Hey, but Claransa published a book about it! Karameikos also sent there several explorers. > Some may hear stories, >and their reaction will vary depending on who is telling it to them. "the >world is hollow? This is a really fascination story you tell master bard. >Let me buy you a decent meal." or "Hah, you damned liar! Get your troupe >of thieves out of me inn!" Not just stories heard from bards but also read in newspapers and show-cases in the inns. And probably the clerics too have told the common people about it during service at the Temple. Shouldn't it be something like the discovery of America in 1492 (did I get it correctly?)? >> Only a few people know about the existence of the HW, but they keep it >> secret because of military reasons. > >I dont really see the military importance of the Hollow World. Considering >the resources involved in leading an expedition there, I dont see any >reason why anyone would want to go there except out of curiousity. So why haven't the Heldanners and the Alphatian told the world about it? Thyatians knew nothing about the HW until Claransa's book. >From your answer it sounds like your Mystara is in a very Dark Age, not a "modern" world where knowledge is quite widespread. Maybe the common man is barely able to read and write. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@gdr.net http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 00:23:24 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Commune (was: A Creation Myth) At 16.57 24/11/98 +0100, Hĺvard Rřnne Faanes wrote: >You have just hit a very weak spot in the xD&D magic system. This is how I >would treat this IMC, regardless of the spell-description. When a cleric >consults with his Immortals he will never ever get a clear answer. The >answer will come to him through interpreting what he sees in a dream, the >stars, by looking into a fire, watching the flames etc. The answer will >always have room for many interpretations. I like this, unfortunately the rules says that the answer is either "yes" or "no" :-( Please, don't tell me "Ignore the rules if you don't like them", I know this :-) >Another thing. A cleric wont ask questions that are considered blasphemous >and he wont ask questions he wont have a reason to ask. Unless someone >witha certain credibility claims that the earth is round, he wont bother >to ask his immortal about it. Abusing such spells will not gain the >cleric his immortals favour. "Is the earth flat? Why would I ask my Patron >that question? Anyone can see that the world is flat..." Maybe he's just read a book of some scientist, who claimed that the world is round, so he asks his patron Immortal for confirmation. Maybe he's not just a cleric, but also an explorer, or maybe he studies geography at the university. Don't consider him just a cleric, but also a man with interests and hobbies that go beyond religion. >Why am I doing this? >To preserve a certain medeival feel in the setting. If clerics can ask >their immortals anything and expect a clear answer, then there will be no >mysteries left on Mystara. He can just get a "yes" or "no" answer and often that's not enough. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 00:14:05 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Commune (was: A Creation Myth) At 10.51 24/11/98 -0600, James Ruhland wrote: >an Immortal, including a Lawful one, isn't compelled to even answer. Don't know. RC says: "The cleric may ask three questions that can be answered "yes" or "no"". I intrepreted this as: "The Immortal should answer either yes or no", but maybe you're right. > And, >if the Clerics go around asking lots of "spurious" questions (the Immortal >in question is the one who decides what is a "spurious" question), then the >Cleric is unlikely to recieve the spell for awhile, as a minimum >punishment. Why that? Immortals have nothing to do, so answering a few questions per day should not be a big problem. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 18:09:22 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology Hĺvard Rřnne Faanes wrote: > > In ancient Scandinavia, some people were known as "Godless." They believed > in "eiga makt" or their own power. They would not make offerings to any > god since they thought they considered themselves powerful enough to > manage without the interferece of any god. I Think Glantrians may have a > similar attitude. They have access to increadible powers. Powers they have > gained through the pursiut of knowledge. That fits the Glantrians to me. Though I think the pursuit of knowledge is magical knowledge only. Not all knowledge. Even what they have learned outside of magical knowledge is mostly how it works with magic. For example, they might have knowledge of geology as minerals for magical use but have no idea how diamonds are formed. One thing I've always wondered about these nations founded on magic. Why aren't all people born into them mages? In the D&D rules, it gave no minimum intelligence score needed to be a wizard so even one with a 3 could be technically a wizard so I don't see the rational that everyone wouldn't want to become true citizens of Glantri and Alphatia. I think there's more to the idea that only wizards may be nobles. Seems like there could be people not allowed the study of magic even if they possess natural talent. - -- Tim This has been a Galwylin® Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 18:22:51 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Church of Darokin (Long) Hĺvard Rřnne Faanes wrote: > > 1)The Thyatian Faith. This is the religion dominant in the Thyatian > Empire, Karameikos, Heldann(among the Knights) Darokin, and Ylaruam. The > Eternal Truth, the Churches of Darokin and the Church of Karameikos are > fractions within the religion. They have different organizations and some > philosofical disagreements, but are at most no more different than > Judaism, Christianity and Islam. (Same creation myths, basically same > ethics etc..) The Thyatian faith has adopted some elements from other > religions such as immortals from the Dwarven, Elven, Antalian, Traladaran > and Ochaelan Pantheons. I like this idea. It would seem quite like the Protestant movement where there is no centralized head of the faith. And very adaptable to individual nations. We do know that the Church of Karameikos is based on the Church of Thyatis with some changes. This is the method I am going with in that Thyatis conquered most of the Known World and the Church of Thyatis installed itself in each nation. As the Empire pulled or was pushed back, that religious mentality stayed and native churches grew up copying the Church of Thyatis model. I picture them much closer (except for the Eternal Truth which would be the only true faction) than Judaism/Christianity and Islam. > 3)Shamanism, of various types can be found in Athruagin, Ethengar and also > to a certain degree in Karameikos and in the Northern Reaches. I'm also adding elements of shamanism to the elves to reflect their history of a relationship with forest spirits. > In addition you have minor religions like that on the Elves, The Dwarves, > the Hin and the Traladarans. With the Traladarans, I'm thinking of using the Celtic style of myth concerning their Immortals. They weren't really worshipped as current Immortals but more revered as great heroes until the first coming of the Thyatis when the ground work of the Church of Traladara was made. Then later, Stefan Karameikos came bringing the Church of Karameikos. The CoT and the CoK actually come from the same core but time has divided them as the Traladarans theirs heavily. - -- Tim This has been a Galwylin® Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 18:27:09 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengarian Immortals (was Ixion) Sharon Dornhoff wrote: > > Despite belated attempts to shoehorn it into the AD&D universe, Mystara's > got very little to do with the version of the cosmos portrayed in PS > products ... never mind, a lousy supplement like "Shaman"! :-P I haven't seen the Shaman accessory but I have the Player's Options: Spells and Magic and working to adapt the shaman class in it to Mystara. It has several different type of spirits. Ancestors fits best with Ethengar to me. And I'm using the nature spirits for the elves. Animal spirits could work with Atruaghin. This is all part of my plan to have as many different religions as there are races :) - -- Tim This has been a Galwylin® Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 18:25:11 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Commune (was: A Creation Myth) > > At 10.51 24/11/98 -0600, James Ruhland wrote: > >an Immortal, including a Lawful one, isn't compelled to even answer. > > Don't know. RC says: "The cleric may ask three questions that can be > answered "yes" or "no"". > I intrepreted this as: "The Immortal should answer either yes or no", but > maybe you're right. > Well, it's just that I tend to doubt that any self respecting Immortal will grant a spell that will *require* him (or her) to truthfully answer any damned fool question that enters the mind of some nosy priest. 8-) > > Why that? Immortals have nothing to do, so answering a few questions per > day should not be a big problem. > Which is why they don't mind granting the spell, but I doubt that they're going to answer pointed questions that may provoke folks to question their faith in the Immortal itself. I also tend to believe that most Immortals don't want their followers to start using the spell as a crutch to solve every mystery (mundane or magnificent) for them. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 18:25:11 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Commune (was: A Creation Myth) > > At 10.51 24/11/98 -0600, James Ruhland wrote: > >an Immortal, including a Lawful one, isn't compelled to even answer. > > Don't know. RC says: "The cleric may ask three questions that can be > answered "yes" or "no"". > I intrepreted this as: "The Immortal should answer either yes or no", but > maybe you're right. > Well, it's just that I tend to doubt that any self respecting Immortal will grant a spell that will *require* him (or her) to truthfully answer any damned fool question that enters the mind of some nosy priest. 8-) > > Why that? Immortals have nothing to do, so answering a few questions per > day should not be a big problem. > Which is why they don't mind granting the spell, but I doubt that they're going to answer pointed questions that may provoke folks to question their faith in the Immortal itself. I also tend to believe that most Immortals don't want their followers to start using the spell as a crutch to solve every mystery (mundane or magnificent) for them. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 18:37:28 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - What the common Mystaran know about... Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > > At 17.22 24/11/98 +0100, Hĺvard Rřnne Faanes wrote: > >> Darokin, AC 1010 > >> 3) What's the reaction of the common man upon knowing that the world is > >> Hollow? > > > >I dont think the common man will get to know this. > > Hey, but Claransa published a book about it! > Karameikos also sent there several explorers. So did Jules Verne. And it has been a popular myth for some time in our own world. I don't think Mystarans have the means to actually prove it or disprove it. The common man may believe it or not but I don't see widespread belief. The closest we have to this is alien abductions. Some believe, some don't and we still don't have complete proof one way or the other. Communication isn't as advanced in Mystara as our own world either (or shouldn't be as I'll rant below). Things such as Claransa really bothers me. We have Mystara practically in the Renaissance and Enlightenment ages without stepping all the way through. Half the place is in the Dark Ages the rest in the Industrial. Communication is so developed that books are published and sold yet there isn't the consequences of the spreading of knowledge being shown by the assimilating of various cultures. - -- Tim This has been a Galwylin® Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 19:40:06 -0500 (EST) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - What the common Mystaran know about... > Darokin, AC 1000. > 1) Does the common man know about the world being spherical and not flat? I would assume so. I just don't see a Flat Earth Society in Darokin. Maybe in a less educated area (The Broken Lands, for instance) or one with more wildly eccentric views (Glantri, Alphatia). > 2) Does the common man know about the other planets in Mystara system? Tough call. When did we on Earth discover the other planets? > Darokin, AC 1010 > 3) What's the reaction of the common man upon knowing that the world is > Hollow? Disbelief. A few adventurous souls may want to find out of course... The Religious Right is right when it says we have a spiritual crisis in America. But the answer to a spiritual crisis is something far deeper than electing as many right-wing Republicans to office as possible, as the Christian Coalition is trying to do. That's where the Religious Right goes wrong -- Jim Wallis, "Who Speaks for G-d?" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 18:41:40 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Commune (was: A Creation Myth) Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > > Don't know. RC says: "The cleric may ask three questions that can be > answered "yes" or "no"". > I intrepreted this as: "The Immortal should answer either yes or no", but > maybe you're right. Look at it this way. You've set up this dungeon and the cleric asks his Immortal at every door. Are you going to essentially hand your dungeon map over to the players? > Why that? Immortals have nothing to do, so answering a few questions per > day should not be a big problem. They have lots to do. Planning the punishment of followers that ask them frivolous questions. ;> - -- Tim This has been a Galwylin® Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 19:59:53 -0500 From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Commune (was: A Creation Myth) Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > At 10.51 24/11/98 -0600, James Ruhland wrote: > >an Immortal, including a Lawful one, isn't compelled to even answer. > > Don't know. RC says: "The cleric may ask three questions that can be > answered "yes" or "no"". > I intrepreted this as: "The Immortal should answer either yes or no", but > maybe you're right. Naw, that is definitely an instruction to the cleric. "You may ask three questions that should be worded so that a yes or no answer COULD be given." Further, I would say that as far as mortals go, Immortals have no restrictions. You and i both know that, in fact, they do... But it is similar to the way teaching is supposed to work...kids should never know that there are restrictions on teachers... > >if the Clerics go around asking lots of "spurious" questions (the Immortal > >in question is the one who decides what is a "spurious" question), then the > >Cleric is unlikely to recieve the spell for awhile, as a minimum > >punishment. > > Why that? Immortals have nothing to do, so answering a few questions per > day should not be a big problem. Quite frankly because its annoying! But also because there is morality involved in belief. The cleric should have faith about certain things... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 20:01:31 -0500 From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Commune (was: A Creation Myth) Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > At 16.57 24/11/98 +0100, Hĺvard Rřnne Faanes wrote: > > >You have just hit a very weak spot in the xD&D magic system. This is how I > >would treat this IMC, regardless of the spell-description. When a cleric > >consults with his Immortals he will never ever get a clear answer. The > >answer will come to him through interpreting what he sees in a dream, the > >stars, by looking into a fire, watching the flames etc. The answer will > >always have room for many interpretations. > > I like this, unfortunately the rules says that the answer is either "yes" > or "no" :-( But what is your point? You show below that you know what you can do with the rules...so why worry about what this guy does in his campaign, especially if you like it? I'm not saying citing the rules is wrong, I'm just wondering why you worded it this way... > > Please, don't tell me "Ignore the rules if you don't like them", I know > this :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 20:24:40 -0500 From: Chris Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Grids Alex295@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 11/23/98 4:49:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, > au998@freenet.carleton.ca writes: > > << Does anyone know a good programs that does decent grids? By this I mean > the type useful in creating map keys for the insides of buildings and the > like. >> > > hey geoff. > > without the specialized software (CC) i usually use paintbrush that come with > most windows based pcs. what you can do is fill an area with a dark color. do you mean something like this, if so i can send it to anyone who requests it! i) OVERVIEW Graph Paper Designer is a small utility that allows you to print graph paper on your printer. At this time, Graph Paper Designer will create regular square graph paper, and hex paper. A variety of parameters are user configurable, so that you can customize your graph paper to your needs. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 21:17:16 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Grids >Graph Paper Designer is a small utility that allows you to print graph >paper on your printer. At this time, Graph Paper Designer will create >regular square graph paper, and hex paper. A variety of parameters are >user configurable, so that you can customize your graph paper to your >needs. This sounds like a neat utility for someone like me to try out. If you are sending it out, can you send it to: ganderg@tc.gc.ca? This is the email address that can actually accept attachments. Thanks! Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 21:23:37 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - What the common Mystaran know about... >> 2) Does the common man know about the other planets in Mystara system? > >Tough call. When did we on Earth discover the other planets? The fact that planets move across the sky in different paths from stars had been known in most of the settled IRL societies -- e.g. Egypt, Greece, Persia, China, India, Mesoamerica -- since antiquity. Any civilization that practices astrology already understands that much. However, up until the introduction of telescopes (first decade of the 1600s), even the greatest European skeptics thought that the planets -- which, in the beliefs of the day, included the Sun and Moon -- orbited the Earth, a few thousand miles overhead, in perfectly-circular paths set in motion by the Creator. Each satellite was mounted in a gigantic sphere of transparent crystal (from which the expression "music of the spheres" comes from), with the genuine stars lining the outermost of the spheres. The SJ concept of sphere-bound "wildspace" was originally based upon this medieval, Church-endorsed view of the cosmos; and anyone who disputed the universe was arranged in this fashion, back then, could be branded a heretic. If a particular group of Mystarans have spyglasses (as the Thyatians, Darokinians and Minrothadders probably do), it's reasonable to assume they've rejected whatever their respective churchs' equivalent "sphere-bound" cosmos used to be. Societies that haven't developed such devices, such as the Children of Atruaghin or the Ethengar tribes, have no reason to accept such outsiders' world-view as accurate and will tend to stick with traditional beliefs (e.g. the World Yurt). Note that some pretty sophisticated societies can retain unusual ideas about the shape of the universe -- even mutually-exclusive ones! -- for reasons of religious tradition. Think about how many different ways the ancient Egyptians explained the sun's movement across the sky, and you'll get the idea. A more interesting line of questioning re Mystarans' world-view, IMHO, is this: 4) Does the common Mystaran know of the existence of other planes, and if so, which ones? Are only the home planes of a person's patron Immortal(s) considered "real", or do most people take it for granted that every Immortal has a plane of his/her own? What about elemental planes? Alternate planes, like Laterre or the planar spiders' plane of origin? Does everybody and their dog know that Limbo (from the "Princess Ark" articles) is the first place you go, when you die? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #721 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, November 25 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 722 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Chirch of Traladar enemies Re: [MYSTARA] - Church of Darokin (Long) Re: [MYSTARA] - Chirch of Traladar enemies Re: [MYSTARA] - What the common Mystaran know about... [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Commune Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology Re: [MYSTARA] - Church of Darokin (Long) Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengarian Immortals (was Ixion) Re: [MYSTARA] - Church of Darokin (Long) [MYSTARA] - HW supplement to AC 1015 almanac: THAUMONT [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v5.5 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 23:30:23 -0800 From: dlegend@earthlink.net Subject: [MYSTARA] - Chirch of Traladar enemies This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BE1802.68A50900 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm running a campaign where the player is framed for killing a Traladar = priest and to make it worse he doesn't have any memory of his past and = what has happened. Basically I want a cult of an evil immortal to be the = cause of his problems and possibly have the Iron Ring involved, but I'm = not sure which immortal would I should use. Who are the enemies of the = Church of Traladar? Currently I have Orcus or Thanatos in mind. Any = recommendations? dlegend@earthlink.net {Off topic} Is anybody here a future EQ player? e-mail me maybe we can adventure together. - ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BE1802.68A50900 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'm running a campaign where the player is framed = for killing=20 a Traladar priest and to make it worse he doesn't have any memory of his = past=20 and what has happened. Basically I want a cult of an evil immortal to be = the=20 cause of his problems and possibly have the Iron Ring involved, but I'm = not sure=20 which immortal would I should use. Who are the enemies of the Church of=20 Traladar? Currently I have Orcus or Thanatos in mind. Any=20 recommendations?
 
dlegend@earthlink.net
 
{Off topic}
Is anybody here a future EQ = player?
e-mail me maybe we can adventure=20 together.
- ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BE1802.68A50900-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 22:35:57 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Church of Darokin (Long) > > > Time is memory's worst enemy... > > Just to remind all of you of an old article detailing the Church of Darokin > > I wrote (which is also available on my site at this URL: > > http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967), here it is. > First off, to Marco, your CoD description was very interesting. Thanks for posting it. The only quibble I had (a minor one) was that it sort of seemed artificial to me that the founder was also the current patriarch, but then that's prolly just me. To Havard, the below sounded intriguing. Do you have more detail on any of the three faiths? If so, I'd enjoy seeing more. 8-) > IMC there are Three major human religions in the Known World. > > 1)The Thyatian Faith. This is the religion dominant in the Thyatian > Empire, Karameikos, Heldann(among the Knights) Darokin, and Ylaruam. The > Eternal Truth, the Churches of Darokin and the Church of Karameikos are > fractions within the religion. They have different organizations and some > philosofical disagreements, but are at most no more different than > Judaism, Christianity and Islam. (Same creation myths, basically same > ethics etc..) The Thyatian faith has adopted some elements from other > religions such as immortals from the Dwarven, Elven, Antalian, Traladaran > and Ochaelan Pantheons. > > 2) The Antalian Faith. This is the religion dominant in the Northern > Reaches, Norwold, Wendar and among lower classes in Heldann. > > 3)Shamanism, of various types can be found in Athruagin, Ethengar and also > to a certain degree in Karameikos and in the Northern Reaches. > > In addition you have minor religions like that on the Elves, The Dwarves, > the Hin and the Traladarans. > > Even though temples may be specifically built to one Immortal, followers > often make offerings to several temples as long as they are part of the > same religion. The Way of the Eternal Truth and the Church of Karameikos > see themselves as separate religions and dont allow their followers to > worship any other immortals. > > People of the Northlands believe that their Immortals are connected with > their own lands. In other lands, they often honour native immortals of > those lands to gain favours from these. > > Hĺvard > > *** > > Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) > http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc > > "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr > Garrison, South Park. > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 00:37:28 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Chirch of Traladar enemies At 11:30 PM 11/24/98 -0800, you wrote: >I'm running a campaign where the player is framed for killing a Traladar priest and to make it worse he doesn't have any memory of his past and what has happened. Basically I want a cult of an evil immortal to be the cause of his problems and possibly have the Iron Ring involved, but I'm not sure which immortal would I should use. Who are the enemies of the Church of Traladar? Currently I have Orcus or Thanatos in mind. Any recommendations? > In the WotI book on Immortals, Halav's enemies include a certain devious Entropic Immortal by the name of...Atzanteotl. He's done that sort of thing before, as well; remember what happened to Eriadna's boyfriend in WotI? Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 13:14:48 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - What the common Mystaran know about... On Wed, 25 Nov 1998, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > At 17.22 24/11/98 +0100, Hĺvard Rřnne Faanes wrote: > >> Darokin, AC 1010 > >> 3) What's the reaction of the common man upon knowing that the world is > >> Hollow? > > > >I dont think the common man will get to know this. > > Hey, but Claransa published a book about it! What exactly does "published" mean in your campaign? I havent quite made up my mind to whether the Printing Press has been invented IMC. At any rate, books should be expensive. Also, see my comments on Literacy below. > Karameikos also sent there several explorers. Again, this doesnt mean the common man will get to hear of it. Well, maybe.. > > Some may hear stories, > >and their reaction will vary depending on who is telling it to them. "the > >world is hollow? This is a really fascination story you tell master bard. > >Let me buy you a decent meal." or "Hah, you damned liar! Get your troupe > >of thieves out of me inn!" > > Not just stories heard from bards but also read in newspapers and > show-cases in the inns. Newspapers definately dont exist IMC. We´re talking 17thC tech here arent we? IMC bards are the best source of information for commoners actually. > And probably the clerics too have told the common people about it during > service at the Temple. Maybe. OR maybe this would confuse the masses? > Shouldn't it be something like the discovery of America in 1492 (did I get > it correctly?)? Yep. I dont remember when Magellan sailed around the world though. Anyway, they obvously had theories about the earth being round at the time. However, I think the people of our Earth had more reason to travel around the world since trade with India was so important. On Mystara, even contact with the Savage Coast seems to be limited.. > >> Only a few people know about the existence of the HW, but they keep it > >> secret because of military reasons. > > > >I dont really see the military importance of the Hollow World. Considering > >the resources involved in leading an expedition there, I dont see any > >reason why anyone would want to go there except out of curiousity. > > So why haven't the Heldanners and the Alphatian told the world about it? Dont know. They would probably keep anything secret aslong as they wouldnt gain anything from telling anyone. The Alphatians could have trade interests in HW, but I doubt the Heldannics have the resources, actually. This is just an impression though, and the Heldannics seem to have been doing alot of silly things. Why on earth would they want to establish a colony in Green Bay? > Thyatians knew nothing about the HW until Claransa's book. > >From your answer it sounds like your Mystara is in a very Dark Age, not a > "modern" world where knowledge is quite widespread. Maybe the common man is > barely able to read and write. Yes. I wouldnt say _Very_ dark, but literacy is not common among commoners, neither is education at all. People simply dont see any use of it since they are more concerned helping out with the crops. This attitude lasted into the 19th Century in the real world, maybe even longer. Apparently there are many ways to interprete Mystara. Im not saying my Mystara is more valid than yours. What we obvously do have in common is that we are aware of the consequences of the choices we have made (at least some of them.) I dont think everyone are. And TSRs people dont seem to have thought too much about this either, so its up to the individual GM to sort these things out... Hĺvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 13:23:00 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Commune On Wed, 25 Nov 1998, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > At 16.57 24/11/98 +0100, Hĺvard Rřnne Faanes wrote: > > >You have just hit a very weak spot in the xD&D magic system. This is how I > >would treat this IMC, regardless of the spell-description. When a cleric > >consults with his Immortals he will never ever get a clear answer. The > >answer will come to him through interpreting what he sees in a dream, the > >stars, by looking into a fire, watching the flames etc. The answer will > >always have room for many interpretations. > > I like this, unfortunately the rules says that the answer is either "yes" > or "no" :-( > Please, don't tell me "Ignore the rules if you don't like them", I know > this :-) Do I usually sound like a patronizing TSR Sage advice guy to you? ;) IMO going by the rules in this case makes Mystara really weird and difficult to play in. I illustrated this in a prevous mail. This is my reason for changing the rules. What you do is your choice ofcourse, but since you have pointed at some of the effects this spell has on your campaign, you obvously realize that going by the rules here can have some dramatic effects. > Maybe he's just read a book of some scientist, who claimed that the world > is round, so he asks his patron Immortal for confirmation. > Maybe he's not just a cleric, but also an explorer, or maybe he studies > geography at the university. Don't consider him just a cleric, but also a > man with interests and hobbies that go beyond religion. All these are possible. > >Why am I doing this? > >To preserve a certain medeival feel in the setting. If clerics can ask > >their immortals anything and expect a clear answer, then there will be no > >mysteries left on Mystara. > > He can just get a "yes" or "no" answer and often that's not enough. True, but, if you can talk directly to your god/Immortal, this will affect your actions in ways we cannot relate to our own world... At worst, I would limit this spell to only a few clerics of each religion. And maybe they would have to swear to keep some truths secret. Hĺvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 13:26:38 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology On Tue, 24 Nov 1998, Tim wrote: > That fits the Glantrians to me. Though I think the pursuit of knowledge > is magical knowledge only. Not all knowledge. Even what they have > learned outside of magical knowledge is mostly how it works with magic. > For example, they might have knowledge of geology as minerals for > magical use but have no idea how diamonds are formed. I agree. > One thing I've always wondered about these nations founded on magic. > Why aren't all people born into them mages? In the D&D rules, it gave > no minimum intelligence score needed to be a wizard so even one with a 3 > could be technically a wizard so I don't see the rational that everyone > wouldn't want to become true citizens of Glantri and Alphatia. I think > there's more to the idea that only wizards may be nobles. Seems like > there could be people not allowed the study of magic even if they > possess natural talent. IMC, it takes a special talent to be able to use Magic. Magical training may also cost money. Studying at the Great School of Magic is really expensive, and so is probably getting magical education in Alphatia. You may also have read what I suggested about Temples in Alphatia charging fees for becoming clerics in their religions.. Hĺvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 13:31:17 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Church of Darokin (Long) On Tue, 24 Nov 1998, Tim wrote: > Hĺvard Rřnne Faanes wrote: > > > > 1)The Thyatian Faith. This is the religion dominant in the Thyatian > > Empire, Karameikos, Heldann(among the Knights) Darokin, and Ylaruam. The > > Eternal Truth, the Churches of Darokin and the Church of Karameikos are > > fractions within the religion. They have different organizations and some > > philosofical disagreements, but are at most no more different than > > Judaism, Christianity and Islam. (Same creation myths, basically same > > ethics etc..) The Thyatian faith has adopted some elements from other > > religions such as immortals from the Dwarven, Elven, Antalian, Traladaran > > and Ochaelan Pantheons. > > I like this idea. It would seem quite like the Protestant movement > where there is no centralized head of the faith. And very adaptable to > individual nations. We do know that the Church of Karameikos is based > on the Church of Thyatis with some changes. This is the method I am > going with in that Thyatis conquered most of the Known World and the > Church of Thyatis installed itself in each nation. As the Empire pulled > or was pushed back, that religious mentality stayed and native churches > grew up copying the Church of Thyatis model. I picture them much closer > (except for the Eternal Truth which would be the only true faction) than > Judaism/Christianity and Islam. Yes. Its important to note that since the Church of Thyatis doesnt have an organization, it cannot try to hold the factions together. It is possible also that it is more tolerant than the Old Roman Catholic Church, when it comes to variations in theological matters. > > 3)Shamanism, of various types can be found in Athruagin, Ethengar and also > > to a certain degree in Karameikos and in the Northern Reaches. > > I'm also adding elements of shamanism to the elves to reflect their > history of a relationship with forest spirits. That sounds like a good idea. IMO the elves were mainly shamans before the time of Blackmoor. > > In addition you have minor religions like that on the Elves, The Dwarves, > > the Hin and the Traladarans. > > With the Traladarans, I'm thinking of using the Celtic style of myth > concerning their Immortals. They weren't really worshipped as current > Immortals but more revered as great heroes until the first coming of the > Thyatis when the ground work of the Church of Traladara was made. Then > later, Stefan Karameikos came bringing the Church of Karameikos. The > CoT and the CoK actually come from the same core but time has divided > them as the Traladarans theirs heavily. I use the Traladaran Celt paralell aswell. In addition I have the Traladarans worshipping other lesser Hero Spirits... Hĺvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 13:34:01 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengarian Immortals (was Ixion) On Tue, 24 Nov 1998, Tim wrote: > Sharon Dornhoff wrote: > > > > Despite belated attempts to shoehorn it into the AD&D universe, Mystara's > > got very little to do with the version of the cosmos portrayed in PS > > products ... never mind, a lousy supplement like "Shaman"! :-P > > I haven't seen the Shaman accessory but I have the Player's Options: > Spells and Magic and working to adapt the shaman class in it to > Mystara. It has several different type of spirits. Ancestors fits best > with Ethengar to me. And I'm using the nature spirits for the elves. > Animal spirits could work with Atruaghin. This is all part of my plan > to have as many different religions as there are races :) I think the Shaman supplement was quite good, and it seems to be very similar to the system you describe from the Players Option book. I think the Ethengarans and the Athruagin worship many types of Spirits. Also Ancestor worship is found in the Northern Reaches and the Traladarans honour Hero Spirits. I like the idea of elves worshipping natyure spirits. Maybe the Dwarves have some earth spirits aswell..? Hĺvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 13:49:09 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Church of Darokin (Long) On Tue, 24 Nov 1998, James Ruhland wrote: > To Havard, the below sounded intriguing. Do you have more detail on any of > the three faiths? If so, I'd enjoy seeing more. 8-) Thankyou James :) Ive been thinking about doing a writeup about this for ages, but I havent really had time and inspiration :( 1)Basically the Antalian faith is more or less i direct Mystarification of Norse Faith. I got alot of info on this so, that part would be pretty easy. 2) The Thyatian Faith, I see like a mixture of Greek/Roman legends and Judaism. I know this sounds a bit weird, but try to picture a polytheistic version of Judaism, with Khoronus as the King of the Immortals who has provided the foundation of a religion for his chosen people, the Thyatians. The Thyatians are not as exclusive as the Jews, though. Aslong as they can civilize other peoples, these may also join their religion. They also have concepts of sin and probably something like the ten commandments. Im also thinking about having the Emperor as the Hand of the Immortals on Earth. Sort of Like the Bysantine Emperor being the supreme leader of the Greek Orthodox church. This faith has two major break-out sub-religions. 1) The Church of Karameikos. Sort of being like Christianity breaking away from judaism or Protestants breaking away from Catholicism. The two main differences bewteen this and the Church of Thyatis is that a) they have an organization and b) their thesis that any sin can be repented. 2)The Eternal Truth, which basically is Islam. Al-Kalim is the Prophet of "the Immortals" and his word is law. It is basically an Ylari interpretation of Thyatian Faith, but includes important elements of their culture. I dont know how comfortable I am about this thing. There seems to be a great potential for racist attitudes in the descriptions of Ylaruam. The Arabs were very tolerant in the middle ages... 3) Shamanism. I havent done much on this one yet. This stuff and canon(shiver): I dont really see this as contradictory to canon although I wont let a few sentences from canon get in my way when Im developing this stuff. Comments are welcome though :) Hĺvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 05:10:51 PST From: "Joshuan Gallidox Publishing" Subject: [MYSTARA] - HW supplement to AC 1015 almanac: THAUMONT THAUMONT 3, AC 1015: Officials Dismissed. Location: Nithia. HW Description: Today marks the beginning of an official policy, ordered by Senkha herself. All across the regions of the Delta kingdom under the control of Senkha's forces, those public officials or local leaders who have publicly supported Ramose are dismissed from their positions, and sent to work in the mines. Ardent supporters of Senkha and her cause are appointed to replace them, and they are encouraged to root out "any and all traitors, wherever they may be found." (See Va. 20, Va. 27; Ya. 12, Ya. 28.) What This Means: This is part of Senkha's plan to consolidate her power in the Delta kingdom, by removing those people she knows will oppose her. Those she puts in their place will continue the task of uncovering other supporters of Ramose, and arresting them. What she does not realize is that this will serve only to increase the resentment of the people towards Senkha's unjust rule, and drive Ramose's supporters underground, where they will work to foment rebellion. What The PCs Can Do: The PCs could save the lives of many important supporters of Ramose, such as prominent local clerics, or government officials. Regardless, those people they manage to protect will be in their debt, and would be likely to aid them some time in the future, should they need it. Through these acts, the PCs might even earn the thanks of Ramose himself. THAUMONT 3, AC 1015: Orcs Raid Neathar Lands. Location: Toralai Territory, Neathar Lands. HW Description: A large number of Krugel Orcs ride into Toralai Lands and raid several villages. Along with their pilfered loot, the orcs also take several Neathar hostages. At hearing of this, King Dogrel surprisingly calls for heroes to act on his behalf. (See Th. 17, Th. 23.) What This Means: The Krugel Orcs took advantage of the Toralai warriors being deployed closer to Neatharum. The orcs faced only slight opposition and ran amuck through Toralai lands before the Neathar could muster their forces. Back in Krugel lands, the orcs have issued demands of ransom for the hostages. Among the hostages is Zerrella, a daughter of the Toralai chief Zorok. Hearing of this, Dogrel is at first delighted at the discomfort Zorok must be going through. Then he thinks of a plan that should aid him: if he can gain the release of Zorok's daughter, then he will have a viable bargaining chip with the Toralai. The act should also improve his image with his fellow Alphatians and hopefully help preserve his status as King of Neatharum. The ransom the orcs are demanding is not high, so the venture would not be economically stressing. Dogrel calls for adventurers; with the number of Alphatian agents in the area, his call should be quickly answered. By using Alphatian agents, Dogrel is certain that the ransom will be delivered and that word of his intervention will spread to the Imperial Court. What The PCs Can Do: The PCs can deliver the ransom. Ironically the most dangerous part will be crossing the Toralai lands. Dastardly PCs can try to intercept the ransom delivery and steal it. If the PCs are Neathar, then they may find themselves racing against the Alphatians to deliver the ransom. THAUMONT 11, AC 1015: Traldar Raid Southern Azca. Location: Southern Azca. HW Description: Traldar war parties conduct raids on southern Azca. Though they know the surrounding jungle much better, the Azcans are unable to completely deal with the nuisance. (See Va. 17; Am. 9, Am. 12.) What This Means: Azcans do not understand why the southern Traldar attack them, and assume that the Schattenalfen have hired Traldar mercenaries to further harass them. THAUMONT 17, AC 1015: Zorok Acts. Location: Toralai Territory, Neathar Lands. HW Description: Since the raid Chief Zorok has taken actions of his own, transferring warriors to the Neathar Lands bordering the Krugel Lands. With warriors in place, Zorok is confident that future orc raids will be met. He then organizes a group of adventurers to deliver the ransom. (See Va. 19, Th. 3; Th. 23, Th. 27.) What This Means: It has taken longer for Zorok to get his own adventurers and the ransom together. To lead the party he has chosen his eldest child, Zorena [HW Box]. It has taken several days for her to be recalled home. THAUMONT 23, AC 1015: Treacherous Orcs. Location: Krugel Horde Lands. HW Description: The party of Neathar, sent by Zorok to deliver the ransom, are themselves attacked by the orcs. The survivors are then taken hostage by the orcs. The orcs inform the Neathar that the ransom has doubled. Later in the day, the Alphatian party arrives and enters the camp. They present the orcs with the ransom and demand the hostages, but are answered that the ransom has doubled due to the addition of the new hostages. The Alphatians boldly respond the requested amount is there: the ransom brought by the Neathar, added to the ransom they bring, meets the increased ransom. The orcs do not take the matter lightly and attack the Alphatians. The Alphatians respond with steel and spells, decimating the attacking orcs. The Alphatians suddenly halt the attack and offer the orcs the opportunity to accept the ransoms and avoid any added bloodshed. The orc leader agrees and turns the hostages over, along with assurances of safe passage out of Krugel Lands. The freed Neathar are gracious to the Alphatians and offer few intentional problems to the Alphatians. In fact, two of the female Neathar act very affectionate towards two of the male Alphatians. The two Neathar women introduce themselves as Zerrella and Zorena. (See Th. 3, Th. 17; Th. 27, Ya. 17.) What This Means: The Alphatians had witnessed the treachery against the Neathar and had prepared themselves for a similar attack. This preparedness served them well as it enabled them to cut down the initial assault of orcs. The Alphatians halted the attack though as they knew that they would be hard-pressed to meet the orcish forces of the entire village. Then there would be the expected pursuers; with a number of hostages in tow, such a chase would definitely favor the orcs. By instead offering the orcs the ransom, the hostages and egress are secured. Yet the Alphatians have also made a strong demonstration of what the Alphatians can do, forcing the orcs to recognize the power of the Alphatians. The orcs will have to think about these Alphatians and devise means to fight them and their magic. Any harsh feelings that the hostage Neathar had towards Alphatians are greatly diminished. Two of the male Alphatians even find themselves the objects of affections from Zorena and Zerrella. What The PCs Can Do: Alphatian PCs will be attacked. How they meet the attack and the extent they carry it are up to them. Note to DMs: With the hostages free, the Alphatians have to transverse Neathar Lands to get back to Haldemar. The Neathar borders should be heavily patrolled by Neathar to prevent more orc raids, so that it is doubtful the party will be able to get past the patrols. An explanation of the ransom delivery should secure their passage through. The presence of Zorok's daughters should really aid them. Of course the patrols will "suggest" that the hostages be released. The advantage is that the former hostages will take those altered feelings toward Alphatians back to their villages. THAUMONT 27, AC 1015: Hostages Returned... Sort of. Location: Haldemar, Alphatian Neatharum. HW Description: A party of riders enters Haldemar. The party members are of Alphatian heritage, except for two female Neathar. They report to King Dogrel that the ransom was delivered and the hostages freed in Neathar lands. Dogrel is livid that they did not bring the hostages here to Haldemar. The party members relate to him the details of the delivery, reporting that the trek back and forth across Toralai lands was contested and they had to release the hostages to them to guarantee safe passage. Dogrel inquires as to the two Neathar females. The Alphatians tell him that they acted as guides during the venture and have become trusted members of the party. Dogrel makes no further comment on them, but his eyes denote a sense of disbelief, and he dismisses the party. (See Th. 17, Th. 23; Fl. 8, Ya. 4.) What This Means: The party has returned from delivering the ransom to the Krugel Orcs. The release of the hostages to their tribes for safe passage is truthful. However, the two Neathar women are not simple guides, they are two of Zorok's daughters, Zorena and Zorella, who now have their hearts set on their two Alphatian heroes. _________________________________ Joshuan Gallidox Publishing publisher of the Mystaran Almanac ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:25:33 CET From: "Herve Musseau" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v5.5 Mystara FAQ version 5.5 by Hervé Musseau Q: What is Mystara? A: Mystara is an imaginary world created by TSR as a campaign world for roleplaying games using the rules of Dungeons and Dragons. Q: What is a roleplaying game? A: Roleplaying games are games in which people play the role of imaginary fantastic characters like warriors or wizards and try to complete an adventure under the guidance of a game master. Q: I never heard of Mystara, but I know a setting called the Known World which looks pretty the same. What's the difference? A: Mystara got a name as a world only recently; before that, it was often referred to as the Known World, although Mystara is more than just the Known World. Q: So, what's Mystara? The Known World and what else? A: Mystara is basically composed of 2 main parts, the Outer World and the Hollow World, plus 2 moons, and some other exotic settings. Q: A Hollow World? A: Yes. Mystara, unlike our earth, is hollow, an empty sphere. It has an internal sun that lights the interior world, making it inhabitable. It holds old civilizations that are now extinct on the Outer World, placed there by the Immortals with strong magic preventing them from evolving much or dying away. The only entrances to the Hollow World are through underground passages between the two worlds, and through the holes that stand in place of the north and south poles. Q: And the Outer World? A: The Outer World is mostly like our Earth. It comprises: * the Known World (now called Old World), where the most civilized countries are located, * Alphatia (only before AC 1009), * the Savage Coast and Hule, * the southern continent, called Davania, * the eastern continent, called Skothar. Q: Why is Alphatia part of Mystara only up to AC 1009? A: Because Alphatia, which is a large continent east of the Known World, sank into the ocean in AC 1009, at the end of the major event called Wrath of the Immortals. It is now a floating continent located in the Hollow World. Q: What exactly is Wrath of the Immortals? A: Wrath of the Immortals (or WotI) is a great campaign that TSR published to update the Known World. It deals with the Great War that involves the major countries of Mystara and that was caused by the Immortals to obtain control of the Nucleus of the Spheres, a powerful artifact located under Glantri. At the end of the war, Alphatia sinks, Glantri and Thyatis have suffered dramatically from the conflict and three new powers enter the political scene of Mystara: the Heldannic Territories, the Hagiarchy of Hule and the "revamped" Kingdom of Karameikos. Q: On the continental map published in the Master DM's book, there are some empires I've never read anything about in other products and on the list, like the Empire of Dorphin IV or the Empire of the Great Khan. Do they exist? Where can I find information about these? A: The map in the Master set is wrong, wrong, wrong! In the series of articles written by Bruce Heard in Dragon Magazine, the first in the series (Dragon #153) explains this all. The map was the was released by a very imaginative Thyatian, and wrongly accepted for the truth. There is no Empire of Dorphin IV, no Empire of the Great Khan, etc. Also, as you probably guessed, the size of the Thyatian Empire was largely exagerated on this map... Q: I've already heard from the Known World, and from the Hollow World too, but never as Mystara. What does all this mean? A: This is because Mystara is a very old world, one of the oldest created by TSR, and, as TSR grew, so did Mystara. All of these product lines are revelant to Mystara: * Mystara, of course, * the Known World and most stuff that were made for D&D (as opposed to AD&D) like these old good modules B and X, or the Gazetteers, * the Hollow World, * Red Steel/the Savage Coast, * Blackmoor. Also, some products bearing the label First Quest are related to Mystara. Q: Blackmoor? I know a Blackmoor, but it's part of Greyhawk, isn't it? A: Blackmoor was, like Greyhawk, the campaign world of one of TSR's founder, Dave Arneson. It was later placed in both Greyhawk and the Known World (as a past kingdom in the later), effectively making three Blackmoors exist. It seems there is no further relation between the two Blackmoors of Mystara and Greyhawk, however, although some people made the assumption; on the other hand, Judge's Guild's Blackmoor likely has much in common with Mystara's, as the DA series for the Known World was also written by Dave Arneson (so that JG First Fantasy Campaign is considered Mystara-relevant). Q: Where is it located? A: Blackmoor was a techno-magical kingdom that blew itself up a few millenia ago. The event shifted the planet's axis and Blackmoor is now the north pole. Sources are contradictory as to where Blackmoor stands; some place it on Brun, some on Skothar. Arguments in favor of Brun are the position of the Inn Between the Worlds and the Nucleus of the Sphere, and the fact that the Known World stands there; this is the solution proposed in some Gazetteers. Arguments in favor of Skothar are its sort of canonical status, and the feeling that all civilizations should not systamatically come from the Known World; this is the solution proposed in the Hollow World box. Note that, if you consider the Hollow World solution to be the truth in your campaign, the map in the box does have a typo : the names of Blackmoor and Thonia have been reversed (Blackmoor was north of the Empire of Thonia according to all other sources). Bruce Heard's opinion on this matter : << Blackmoor -- the travelling legend. If there were archaeologist on Mystara, they would have a devil of time figuring where the darn place was really located. Officially, it's supposed to be up there by the Thonian Marches. Unfortunately, conflicting info has crept into several products, getting in the way of the Thonian theory. The best thing is to assume evidence of Blackmoor's presence elsewhere is the result of later colonizations and outposts. Other communities were also magically displaced (such as a certain ancient tavern in the Broken Lands of the Known World). Definitely a messy development of the World of Mystara! :) >> So officially the answer is Skothar. Q: Ok, and now what's Red Steel? A: Red Steel is a setting that is part of Mystara (west of the Known World), although it was released as a stand-alone setting. Q: I have a player of the Church of Karameikos, and I whant to give him an Immortal, I suppose that it's a church with many Immortals (like the Greek / Latin church) but in Gaz 1 I dind't find any list of Inmortals... A: These are the immortals of the Church of Karameikos, as told by Bruce Heard in an old Dragon Magazine: Asterius (Eternal of Thought), Leader Kagyar (Eternal of Matter) Ilsundal (Hierarch of Thought) Valerias (Hierarch of Matter) Vanya (Empyreal of Time). Also, although Chardastes is a native Traladaran Immortal, he is venerated through the auspices of the Church of Karameikos, not the Church of Traladara. This is extrapolated from info in B1-9 In Search of Adventure. The Immortals of the Church of Traladara are: Halav Petra Zirchev. Q: You spoke of Immortals, what are they? Are they Gods? A: Mystara has a different pantheon when compared to other D&D settings. Most notably, it has no gods, but beings called Immortals. Immortals are mortals who, through their deeds, have reached a higher status granting them more power than mere mortals. Basically, however, Immortals are not very different from Gods of other settings. Q: Is Jaggar von Drachenfelds the Star Dragon? A: No. According to Bruce Heard's article in Dragon #170 http://www.tsrinc.com/periodicals/dragon/backissues/170jun91/170FromHatchlingTo.txt he became the Star Dragon for a brief period but relinquished the title for absolution. Q: Also you mentionned something about D&D not being AD&D. What does that mean? A: Mystara was the world designed to be used with the rules of D&D (often called OD&D to better distinct it from AD&D and from the generic term D&D which could mean both; OD&D stands for Old D&D or Original D&D - note that some few people call it BD&D for Basic D&D to distinguish it from even older rules). It appeared in the old boxed rules: the Expert box, the Companion box and the Master box. Most of the earlier modules designed for D&D were set in this world. Recently, however, Mystara has been converted to AD&D (along with Red Steel), but many people who play in Mystara do it with the old rules (or their reedition, Rules Cyclopedia). Q: When I read stuff about Mystara I keep seeing acronyms I cannot understand like WotI or PWA. What do they mean? A: There is a list of Mystara relevant acronyms at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/ Q: I heard that the Mystara line was cancelled. Is this true? A: It is unfortunately true. And Red Steel is cancelled too. Some novels pertaining to Mystara may be released as part of the First Quest line, and modules may be part of the Odyssey line. AFAIK, there is no such products in preparation however, though Wizards of the Coast (which bought TSR) has expressed its willingness to publish material for dead worlds, but never namely mentioned Mystara. Keep faith. Joshuan's Almanach was the last product of Mystara (to be precise the novel "The Black Vessel" has been released after, and to be even more precise it deals with the Savage Coast) and the Savages Baronies the last of Red Steel (except for online exclusives). Q: But I saw in TSR's 97 preview that there would be Red Steel modules released as online exclusive. What does this mean? A: TSR has released these modules for free on its site of MPGN at ftp://ftp.mpgn.com and http://www.tsrinc.com. Q: So, if TSR has dropped the line, how can I get new material for Mystara? A: There are many people on the web who love Mystara and have taken upon themselves to keep Mystara alive (and well alive). There is a mailing list dedicated to Mystara (MML) where people discuss together about it, exchanging ideas, points of view, and more. To subscribe, send e-mail to majordomo@mpgn.com. In the body, have the single line: subscribe Mystara-L . It has 224 people, as of end April 98. Not quite a billion served, but we're getting there. As a comparison, there are 395 people on the Realms list, TSR's flagship world (source : Leroy Van Camp, MML admin). There is also the TSR Mystara Message Board (MMB) at http://tsronline.wizards.com:80/mb/system/addnewuser.shtml where discussion revolves mostly around alternate Mystaras. There are also many pages around the net dedicated to Mystara, sometimes with lots of interesting materials. Some of these pages are organized into a Webring, check http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html for info about the Mystara webring. Now more than ever you should express your views on how Mystara should be brought back at http://CWSpot.com/Mystara/SaveMystara or join the SaveMystara Writer's Group whose goal is to get as many adventures and articles to the periodicals as we can. Q: Where can I find the old messages of the Mystara mailing list? A: The digests are collected at ftp://ftp.mpgn.com/Gaming/ADND/Worlds/Mystara/MailingListArchive/ and the oldest ones (prior to 1998) can be found at ftp://ftp.io.com/pub/mailing-lists/mystara-digest/ However for your convenience the most interesting aricles the list has come up with are collected and sorted on Shawn's page at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/ Q: Where can I find the old messages of the Mystara message board? A: There is no archiving of the board. However for your convenience the most interesting aricles the board has come up with are collected and sorted on Shawn's page at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/prodlist.html Q: Where can I find a complete list of the material published for Mystara? A: The most complete lists to my knowledge is at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/prodlist.html It includes rulebooks and modules published by TSR, Mystara-relevant Judge Guild supplements, a list of various magazine #s that contain adventures, rules or world description pertaining to Mystara, novels, TSR net resources, and Clark Ashton Smith stories related to Averoigne. All of these are ranked according to compatibility with Mystara (explicit, implicit, compatible, etc.) and the type of product (campaign source, rules supplement, adventure, etc.). Q: And where can I buy those products? A: Since the Mystara line is out of print, it is difficult to find them. If you're lucky you can find them in any shop that sells RPG stuff, or buy second-hand books. Some places where you can find Mystara stuff on the web: http://www.dragontrove.com/listing.html http://www.titan-games.com/ http://www.rpgspot.com/main.htm http://www.hitpointe.com http://www.eskimo.com/~darkh/ http://www.ida.net/users/groverm/sleeping.dragon/sdh.html http://www.djhobby.com/catalog/index.html http://www.sagesguild.com/ http://www.crazyegors.com/ the newsgroup rec.games.frp.marketplace. Q: Where can I find the FAQ for the Mystara mailing list? A: Check at http://www.lesbois.com/members/malacoda/mmlfaq.htm . AFAIK there is no plain text version of this FAQ. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #722 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, November 25 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 723 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Chirch of Traladar enemies Re: [MYSTARA] - [GANDERG@tc.gc.ca: The Jarldom of Ystmarhavn] Re: [MYSTARA] - Skin color in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Skin color in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology Re: [MYSTARA] - What the common Mystaran know about... Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology Re: [MYSTARA] - Chirch of Traladar enemies Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology Re: [MYSTARA] - Ixion Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengarian Immortals (was Ixion) Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengarian Immortals (was Ixion) Re: [MYSTARA] - Skin color in Mystara [MYSTARA] - Meeting of European Listmembers Re: [MYSTARA] - Grids Re: [MYSTARA] - Grids Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengarian Immortals (was Ixion) Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Commune (was: A Creation Myth) Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Commune (was: A Creation Myth) Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Commune (was: A Creation Myth) Re: [MYSTARA] - What the common Mystaran know about... [MYSTARA] - TSR site update Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:40:22 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Chirch of Traladar enemies On Tue, 24 Nov 1998 dlegend@earthlink.net wrote: > I'm running a campaign where the player is framed for killing a > Traladar priest and to make it worse he doesn't have any memory of his > past and what has happened. Basically I want a cult of an evil > immortal to be the cause of his problems and possibly have the Iron > Ring involved, but I'm not sure which immortal would I should use. Who > are the enemies of the Church of Traladar? Currently I have Orcus or > Thanatos in mind. Any recommendations? IMC set in Karameikos AC1000 Orcus is the main nasty immortal around. He is also trying to free Arik, who he is hoping will become an ally if he succeeds. Thanatos is probably involved at some level or other, though what his goals are is hard to say. Anyway, I see Orcus as the main enemy of Halav in this region. Karaash is also mentioned, but I think his main interests lay elsewhere. Comments? Hĺvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:54:55 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [GANDERG@tc.gc.ca: The Jarldom of Ystmarhavn] Cool Stuff Geoff! Im really sorry I didnt have time to comment on it when you sent me the preview URL. I really like this though. Why do I get Northern Ireland associations? :) Do you think its time for the Antalians to kick out the other guys? Maybe with some help from Ostland Invaders? Hĺvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 20:11:24 +0200 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skin color in Mystara >place. But why not using light-green colored people? > Well, I doubt James would enjoy light-green Thyatians :) ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Blue Star aka Azure Star Dragon solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 09:44:53 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skin color in Mystara > > >place. But why not using light-green colored people? > > > Well, I doubt James would enjoy light-green Thyatians :) > Try me 8-)~ But, actually, what I think they meant (as has been mentioned by others already) is that the Thyatians (along with the Milenians, c.f. their description) have "medeteranean" features/complexions, similar to Greeks & Italians. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 07:54:40 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology Hi everyone, Sorry I've not been around this week...I'm *very* busy and have been forced to lurk for a while. Be back in full force soon! Tim wrote: >I've played around with the idea that reincarnation is a real element on >Mystara. There is no 'heaven' to go to after death, you just return. That is a *very* interesting idea! It would certainly make the Sindhi religion make more sense. It also appeals to me much more than a "standard" afterlife for Mystara, as it allows (I think) for a better explanation for how raise/ressurect spells work. Rather than trying to maintain character belief in immediate reward/punishment after death while still allowing for them to be raised (snatched away from heaven/hell/limbo/whatever, thus "cheating" the Immortals), reincarnation would mean only that the character was raised before he or she could be reborn. Failure of the spells would equal that the person was already reborn, and thus could not be brought back from the dead. (Rebirth could take varying amounts of time, thus explaining the long effectiveness of "resurrection.") This also raises the question, can a reincarnated (for real, not by the spell) person retain past-life memories or personality? It could be interesting if, for example, the PCs have to go chasing after a child who is the reincarnated soul of their worst enemy...and it raises some moral issues for the characters as well (do they kill the child). Jenn ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 13:08:23 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - What the common Mystaran know about... yOn Tue, 24 Nov 1998, Tim wrote: [Snipped] Stop the presses!! Me and Tim actually agree! Actually, I hated the whole Claransa thing. That was poor. I much prefer someone with wild tales. Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 13:45:39 EST From: RocksHope@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology I believe the section on Beastman in the Hollow World clearly states that was how the Beastman were created, evil souls were "punished" by becoming Beastmen. But for some reason or another that I don't remember, this practice stopped (whichever Immortal was responsible got caught?). Perhaps it was just the intentional placing of souls in particular bodies on a wide scale was stopped, not the reincartions themselves. Besides, as James knows so well, Stefan Karameikos is the reincarnation of Halav :). - -joshua *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 20:12:37 +0100 From: Cobaye Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Chirch of Traladar enemies - --------------2DADEF1804B7CB6551BC5119 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit For a campaign, why don't you use your own very bad immortal? One goal for players characters should be to make his projects ending? dlegend@earthlink.net a écrit: > I'm running a campaign where the player is framed for killing a > Traladar priest and to make it worse he doesn't have any memory of his > past and what has happened. Basically I want a cult of an evil > immortal to be the cause of his problems and possibly have the Iron > Ring involved, but I'm not sure which immortal would I should use. Who > are the enemies of the Church of Traladar? Currently I have Orcus or > Thanatos in mind. Any recommendations? dlegend@earthlink.net {Off > topic}Is anybody here a future EQ player?e-mail me maybe we can > adventure together. - --------------2DADEF1804B7CB6551BC5119 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For a campaign, why don't you use your own very bad immortal?
One goal for players characters should be to make his projects ending?

dlegend@earthlink.net a écrit:

 I'm running a campaign where the player is framed for killing a Traladar priest and to make it worse he doesn't have any memory of his past and what has happened. Basically I want a cult of an evil immortal to be the cause of his problems and possibly have the Iron Ring involved, but I'm not sure which immortal would I should use. Who are the enemies of the Church of Traladar? Currently I have Orcus or Thanatos in mind. Any recommendations? dlegend@earthlink.net {Off topic}Is anybody here a future EQ player?e-mail me maybe we can adventure together.
  - --------------2DADEF1804B7CB6551BC5119-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 22:56:33 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology > My opinion on this is that Mystarans generally think of the Immortals as > eternal. *However,* I think that they also believe that a mortal can > become an Immortal through heroic feats, the likes of which are rarely > seen. What I had in mind with "chosen"... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 19:56:48 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology > Everyone > else in the Known World knows that Glantri is courting disaster and > Ethengar believes they should be punished for their blasphemy and that > is up to them. > Burn the godless, burn the-e godless, burn the-e go-o-o-dless, oh, please, burn the-e go-odless. :-) Jamuga Khan "The Mighty Khan commands you to burn down the godless dogs from Glantri." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 20:00:23 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ixion > IIRC, the page in question also tells of how > the undead "spirits" from RC aren't the same things as the (living) spirits > of Ethengar. But the undead spirits form the Sea of Grass are the same as the ones from the RC. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 20:04:28 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengarian Immortals (was Ixion) > Unfortunately, this passage raises even more questions than it answers. > For example, is it supposed to be "the truth", or is it the Ethengarian > belief about their patron Immortals? If it is the latter, then Ethengar > becomes another culture that does not believe the Immortals to be > eternal (since they are mentioned as having "achieved Immortality"), > despite their origins in the "Spirit World". And what is the nature of > this "Spirit World"? The AD&D supplement "Shaman" provides no > help at all for anyone who would theorize that the "Spirit World" is a > real place -- quite the contrary, in fact. At least the reference to the > Ethengarian Immortals not being of human origin is beyond dispute, > as WotI clearly depicts Tubak (Ixion) and Yamuga (Terra) as being of > non-human origin. Well, who knows! This is one of the points I never was to discover when I lived on the Sea of Grass those many years ago. Remember, I'm a mage from Lagrius. :-) Jamuga Khan "The Khan is mighty, but not omniscient." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 20:20:39 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengarian Immortals (was Ixion) > My guess would be that it's the "DM's Truth", not what the Ethengarians > themselves believe. After all, the Ethengar tribes believe the world's a > giant yurt; the concept of "creatures from other planes" -- even if they're > >from the Spirit World -- probably doesn't have any meaning for them. But beyond the World Yurt there is the Spirit World, and that is "fact" every Ethengar know. The shamans and clerics know more, of course, and the knowledge of the hakomons is ... undescriptable. > Except that Tubak and Yamuga are described as having earned their > Immortality by helping the Ethengar tribes survive and adapt, after the > GroF. Ixion's a LOT older than that; he's one of the founders of the HW > setting, which pre-dated Blackmoor by millennia. Ixion is not beyond creating his own tale for one people, but it does not sound like Terra. Who knows? At least such a behaviour would be typical for Mystaran Immortals... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 20:22:14 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Skin color in Mystara > The aliens from the "Beagle" really DID have light green skin! But I doubt > if they've got any modern-day green-skinned descendents ... although a few > stray "Beagle"-imported genes might have helped to turn red/brown Oltecs > into the Ethengars, given that yellowish/Asiatic skin would lie somewhere > between the two. :-) Well, don't forget the idea about the connection between the crewmen of the Beagle and the Emerondians... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 21:17:58 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: [MYSTARA] - Meeting of European Listmembers Do you remember my message about a meeting of European MML members to be held next summer in Paris? I got about 10 positive answers. The meeting will start on a monday so people can come during the week-end and spend it in Paris if they wish. The following is a schedule of our mini-con devised by Herve and approved by me and DM. We've not fixed an exact date yet, but it will sometime between the last week of July and the last week of August. If you're interested let me know (in private e-mail) your favourite date. We hope to decide on a final date before the end of this year. Also, if you've some questions feel free to ask me or Herve about it. Day 1: Monday. 14h: 1st meeting. We all gather somewhere (indoors), meet, pay for the convention (unless it's done before) and get our gift (yes, there'll be a nice gift for everyone), and start discussion about Mystara. Discussion can include things like: why we like Mystara, how we want it evolve, what makes it stand apart, whether we want it back or only on the net, why we like this country or that culture or that NPC, ... People can stay as late as they wish in the night discussing in broad or small groups on various subjects. During the day it is also possible to sign on for various RPG session that will be held tuesday. Items can be sold/purchased if some brought stuff they want to part from. Day 2: Tuesday. All RPGs start at their set time (morning, afternoon... depends on the DM). This is a roleplaying day. Play can continue into the night if needed... Day 3: Wednesday. 14h: We meet again. We discuss Mystara again. We ask if they liked the convention and what they'd want to see next year (or not see again). We vote on the site of next year's convention. When we've had enough, we go together to the Champs-Elysees and sit at a cafe to drink something together. Then we split. After: People who wish to visit Paris more can do it the rest of the week if they can take enough vacancy... Also some may reside in the same hotel, or even if they don't they may have made good friends with others, and may then spend some more time together either visiting Paris, or discussing and/or rolepaying more... ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@gdr.net http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 22:13:00 +0100 From: Michele Vacchiano Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Grids Chris wrote: > > > do you mean something like this, if so i can send it to anyone who requests it! > is it free? Giorgio *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 17:03:47 EST From: Magesmiley@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Grids In a message dated 11/24/98 5:33:56 PM Pacific Standard Time, cbarnett@cococo.net writes: << do you mean something like this, if so i can send it to anyone who requests it! i) OVERVIEW Graph Paper Designer is a small utility that allows you to print graph paper on your printer. At this time, Graph Paper Designer will create regular square graph paper, and hex paper. A variety of parameters are user configurable, so that you can customize your graph paper to your needs. >> Drop me a copy of it as long as its free and legal. Magesmiley@aol.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 16:07:29 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengarian Immortals (was Ixion) Hĺvard Rřnne Faanes wrote: > > I think the Shaman supplement was quite good, and it seems to be very > similar to the system you describe from the Players Option book. > I think the Ethengarans and the Athruagin worship many types of Spirits. > Also Ancestor worship is found in the Northern Reaches and the Traladarans > honour Hero Spirits. I like the idea of elves worshipping natyure > spirits. Maybe the Dwarves have some earth spirits aswell..? Yes, I thought that dwarves would also have some type of earth-based religion. I've thought about going with elemental spirits but there are only four types (earth, air, water, and fire) and I'm not certain all four fit my idea of dwarves. More searching, more thinking, I suppose :) - -- Tim This has been a Galwylin® Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 21:31:47 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Commune (was: A Creation Myth) At 19.59 24/11/98 -0500, Jeff Daly wrote: >> Why that? Immortals have nothing to do, so answering a few questions per >> day should not be a big problem. > >Quite frankly because its annoying! Well, if he's annoyed he can create an artifact that answer in his place, like an answering machine. "Hallo, Ixion is out at this time, please leave a message after the beep" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 21:32:41 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Commune (was: A Creation Myth) At 20.01 24/11/98 -0500, Jeff Daly wrote: >But what is your point? You show below that you know what you can do with the >rules...so why worry about what this guy does in his campaign, especially if >you like it? I'm not saying citing the rules is wrong, I'm just wondering why >you worded it this way... Because I hate to change the rules, even if I don't like them and feel they're "wrong". >> >> Please, don't tell me "Ignore the rules if you don't like them", I know >> this :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 21:39:27 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology At 18.09 24/11/98 -0600, Tim wrote: >One thing I've always wondered about these nations founded on magic. >Why aren't all people born into them mages? In the D&D rules, it gave >no minimum intelligence score needed to be a wizard so even one with a 3 >could be technically a wizard so I don't see the rational that everyone >wouldn't want to become true citizens of Glantri and Alphatia. I think >there's more to the idea that only wizards may be nobles. Seems like >there could be people not allowed the study of magic even if they >possess natural talent. Well, they need money to learn magic at the Great School of Magic in Glantri City. Not everyone can afford to send his son/daughter there. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 21:28:48 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Commune (was: A Creation Myth) At 18.41 24/11/98 -0600, Tim wrote: >Look at it this way. You've set up this dungeon and the cleric asks his >Immortal at every door. Are you going to essentially hand your dungeon >map over to the players? A cleric may commune only once per week, if they're going to spend years in the dungeon, the yes... I'm going to hand them the dungeon map :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 22:00:49 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - What the common Mystaran know about... At 13.14 25/11/98 +0100, Hĺvard Rřnne Faanes wrote: >What exactly does "published" mean in your campaign? I havent quite made >up my mind to whether the Printing Press has been invented IMC. At any Well, there should be a magical printing press somewhere in Thaytis or Karameikos, otherwise Prospero wouldn't have published his PWAs. >rate, books should be expensive. Agreed. I don't expect the common man to but one, but clerics, mayors, burgomasters... may. >Newspapers definately dont exist IMC. We´re talking 17thC tech here arent >we? There was an humorous article in Dragon #216 that mentioned some Mystaran "newspapers" like "Ierendi Adventurer's Quarterly". Obviously they're not published daily and they're not meant for the common man, but maybe you can find a copy (though an old one) even in the inn of the remostest of the more advanced countries. >IMC bards are the best source of information for commoners actually. IMC every inn has a show-case with the latest news in the area. >Maybe. OR maybe this would confuse the masses? Don't know. I consider clerics also teachers (see below for more). >> So why haven't the Heldanners and the Alphatian told the world about it? > >Dont know. They would probably keep anything secret aslong as they wouldnt >gain anything from telling anyone. The Alphatians could have trade >interests in HW, but I doubt the Heldannics have the resources, actually. >This is just an impression though, and the Heldannics seem to have been >doing alot of silly things. Why on earth would they want to establish a >colony in Green Bay? To win the Superbowl, don't you know that one of the greatest Heldannic leaders is named Brett Favre? :-) >Yes. I wouldnt say _Very_ dark, but literacy is not common among >commoners, neither is education at all. People simply dont see any use of >it since they are more concerned helping out with the crops. This attitude >lasted into the 19th Century in the real world, maybe even longer. Yes, but in the RW there's no magic. I just can see why spellcasters shouldn't use their magical skills to help everyone live better. Teleport platforms and continual lights in the streets are nice, but education should really be one of the foremost priorities. IMC clerics also teach the people (especially children) how to read and write and a bit of math. Obviously not every Temple does this freely. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@gdr.net http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 09:34:09 +1100 From: stan Subject: [MYSTARA] - TSR site update Hello All I just saw something on the TSR site which is a bit uplifting. As part of the silver anniversary for TSR one of the modules that is going to be reprinted, well not only that - totally rewritten, will be Keep on the Borderlands. Woo hoo. stan http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 16:39:55 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology Jennifer Favia wrote: > > This also raises the question, can a > reincarnated (for real, not by the spell) person retain past-life > memories or personality? It could be interesting if, for example, the > PCs have to go chasing after a child who is the reincarnated soul of > their worst enemy...and it raises some moral issues for the characters > as well (do they kill the child). Depending on the story they're in, I'd have them remember as much as was needed or nothing. Of all the races though, I think the longer lived ones might seek to kill an enemy. Humans just don't live long enough to see an enemy reborned usually. But a great slayer of elves reborn could possibly cause them to end the threat in case he does remember his previous life. - -- Tim This has been a Galwylin® Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #723 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Thursday, November 26 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 724 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - What the common Mystaran know about... Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR site update Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR site update Re: [MYSTARA] - What the common Mystaran know about... Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Commune (was: A Creation Myth) Re: [MYSTARA] - What the common Mystaran know about... Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengarian Immortals (was Ixion) Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Commune (was: A Creation Myth) Re: [MYSTARA] - Grids Re: [MYSTARA] - What the common Mystaran know about... Re: [MYSTARA] - Chirch of Traladar enemies Re: [MYSTARA] - Meeting of European Listmembers Re: [MYSTARA] - Chirch of Traladar enemies [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Beastmen (was: Mystaran Theology) Re: [MYSTARA] - What the common Mystaran know about... Re: [MYSTARA] - Chirch of Traladar enemies [MYSTARA] - Learning Magic (was: Mystaran Theology) Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Beastmen (was: Mystaran Theology) [MYSTARA] - Dragons... Re: [MYSTARA] - [GANDERG@tc.gc.ca: The Jarldom of Ystmarhavn] [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Commune (was: A Creation Myth) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 16:59:21 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - What the common Mystaran know about... SteelAngel wrote: > > Stop the presses!! Me and Tim actually agree! Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated. ;> - -- Tim This has been a Galwylin® Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 17:01:36 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology Jamuga Khan wrote: > > Burn the godless, burn the-e godless, burn the-e go-o-o-dless, > oh, please, burn the-e go-odless. :-) That gives a nice visual. Imagine along the border of Ethengar and Glantri, a line of burned Glantrians marking the borderlines :) - -- Tim This has been a Galwylin® Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 17:09:04 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > > Well, they need money to learn magic at the Great School of Magic in > Glantri City. > Not everyone can afford to send his son/daughter there. There are other ways to learn magic other than the Great School. It would seem likely that some can pick it up just watching someone else (or there needs to be more explaining how wizards start out at 1st level). Now that's got me thinking of how much damage a disgruntled wizard could do to a nation that exalts one class above the others... - -- Tim This has been a Galwylin® Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 17:20:23 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR site update > > I just saw something on the TSR site which is a bit uplifting. As part > of the silver anniversary for TSR one of the modules that is going to > be reprinted, well not only that - totally rewritten, will be Keep on > the Borderlands. > Re-write it?!? Why, I'll moidelize 'em. Well, at least they're reprinting it. But is it going to be set in Mystara, or some other place? That's the rub. . . . *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 19:30:07 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology In a message dated 1998-11-24 19:27:21 Eastern Standard Time, galwylin@airnet.net writes: > One thing I've always wondered about these nations founded on magic. > Why aren't all people born into them mages? In the D&D rules, it gave > no minimum intelligence score needed to be a wizard so even one with a 3 > could be technically a wizard so I don't see the rational that everyone > wouldn't want to become true citizens of Glantri and Alphatia. I think > there's more to the idea that only wizards may be nobles. Seems like > there could be people not allowed the study of magic even if they > possess natural talent. On the other hand, both Gaz3 and DotE cite members of the noble/royal families of Glantri and Alphatia who proved to be totally deficient in magical talent. All that the lack of a minimum intelligence score for wizards means is that a character with an intelligence of 3 might have the necessary talent, while one with an intelligence of 18 may well lack it. Obviously, any player character who begins play as a mage has that talent. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 01:47:26 +0100 From: Cobaye Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR site update I think you've read this: "To celebrate this milestone, we're doing something very special. Instead of just "reprinting" some old adventures, we'll be returning to the scene of some of the greatest adventures in the history of the Dungeons & Dragons® roleplaying game. This year, you and your characters can return to the Keep on the Borderlands, fight the battle for the lands of Geoff in Against the Giants, and explore the mysteries of White Plume Mountain. Each of these adventures is rewritten from scratch - but they still retain the flavor of the original best-selling modules. " Because i've searching for news for Mystara on TSR/Wizards of the coast site, and the only thing they've mention, is that. stan a écrit: > Hello All > > I just saw something on the TSR site which is a bit uplifting. As part > of the silver anniversary for TSR one of the modules that is going to > be reprinted, well not only that - totally rewritten, will be Keep on > the Borderlands. > > Woo hoo. > > stan > http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 20:00:06 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - What the common Mystaran know about... In a message dated 1998-11-24 19:56:12 Eastern Standard Time, megst19+@pitt.edu writes: > Tough call. When did we on Earth discover the other planets? Several thousand years ago. Of course, back then the sun and the moon were counted among the planets -- and the earth was not. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 20:30:09 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Commune (was: A Creation Myth) In a message dated 1998-11-24 19:58:21 Eastern Standard Time, galwylin@airnet.net writes: > Look at it this way. You've set up this dungeon and the cleric asks his > Immortal at every door. Are you going to essentially hand your dungeon > map over to the players? Ah -- but are your players seriously going to limit themselves to checking out three doors per day? And if their mission is to rescue some poor innocent who is being held prisoner in that dungeon, they will almost certainly have to explore more than they can "Commune" about. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 20:30:35 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - What the common Mystaran know about... In a message dated 1998-11-24 21:38:41 Eastern Standard Time, dornhoff@bio.umass.edu writes: > 4) Does the common Mystaran know of the existence of other planes, and if > so, which ones? Yes, but different people have knowledge of different planes. > Are only the home planes of a person's patron Immortal(s) > considered "real", or do most people take it for granted that every > Immortal has a plane of his/her own? I woud think that people would be aware of whatever planes are important to their own history and mythology. Thus, the Alphatians would be quite sure of the existence (or former existence) of the plane of Old Alphatia. On the other hand, the home plane of their patron Immortals may be unknown to them if the Immortals in question never took any of the people there. > What about elemental planes? Certainly they would be known to high level spellcasters, at least. > Alternate planes, like Laterre or the planar spiders' plane of origin? Laterre would certainly be familiar to most Glantrians and would not be a major secret elsewhere. But the other plane mentioned above would be familiar only to those who are well acquainted with planar spiders. Maybe the Herathians know something about that plane? > Does everybody and their dog know that Limbo (from the "Princess Ark" > articles) is the first place you go, when you die? I would think that knowledge of Limbo should be about as common as near death experience tales are among people in the real world. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 20:30:11 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengarian Immortals (was Ixion) > > Except that Tubak and Yamuga are described as having earned their > > Immortality by helping the Ethengar tribes survive and adapt, after the > > GroF. That is not the impression that I got -- if they originated in the Spirit World, they became Immortals there by means unknowable to mere mortals. They helped the Ethengars survive after they became Immortals, not on their way to becoming Immortals. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 20:18:24 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Commune (was: A Creation Myth) Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: > > Ah -- but are your players seriously going to limit themselves to checking > out three doors per day? And if their mission is to rescue some poor > innocent who is being held prisoner in that dungeon, they will almost > certainly have to explore more than they can "Commune" about. I think you're taking me a bit too literal :) I was trying to make an example that a DM isn't going to reveal his plans to players because a spell supposedly allows it. So, if a DM can protect his secrets then why would anyone think the Immortals are incapable of protecting their secrets? I think plenty are missing that the spell commune is to advance the storyline the DM is setting before the players and not to be used to find out questions that don't serve that purpose. Will Immortals see that much difference in the questions "Is the world flat?" and "Should I wear black today?" - -- Tim This has been a Galwylin® Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 22:02:06 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Grids In a message dated 11/24/98 8:33:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, cbarnett@cococo.net writes: << Graph Paper Designer is a small utility that allows you to print graph paper on your printer. At this time, Graph Paper Designer will create regular square graph paper, and hex paper. A variety of parameters are user configurable, so that you can customize your graph paper to your needs. >> sounds good. if you could i'd appreciate a copy as well. this utility sounds a lot better than my method, especially to create the hexes. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 23:23:12 -0500 From: "DJ Sahlas" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - What the common Mystaran know about... Hi folks, Haven't had a lot of time to pore over the list of late, but this caught my attention: >Darokin, AC 1000. >1) Does the common man know about the world being spherical and not flat? IMO the common man (the ubiquitous NM?) doesn't think about the question much, being more concerned with eking out a living. In the RW people's beliefs regarding the shape of the Earth was related to their creation myths and their culture's understanding of the universe. There are dozens of world beliefs on Mystara, but I notice that you are specifically referring to Darokin. Is there a Darokin creation myth that I'm unaware of? As far as Darokinian mythology goes, what does their religion profess apart from a belief in the Immortals? (Has anyone developed this further?) In any case, this is a nation that is on the cusp of a Renaissance, so that many scholars will have a more accurate idea regarding the shape of Mystara. The common belief of the citizenry may well be something along the lines of "Sure the world seems flat, even though they say it's *round* in D.C. (pause), maybe because they think the rest of the world revolves around their fair city!" (A comment that provoked raucous laughter, and earned its teller one on-the-house, in a local bar on the outskirts of Selenica, shortly prior to the events of the WotI). >2) Does the common man know about the other planets in Mystara system? Probably depends upon their occupation, but I'm sure that every culture on Mystara is aware that certain stars tend to wander all across the heavens. (Particularly with the lack of modern city lights). What these represent would also be inextricably linked to local legend. Again, scholars would have various theories distinct from local beliefs, some of them approaching what is true. >Darokin, AC 1010 >3) What's the reaction of the common man upon knowing that the world is >Hollow? I agree this would be met with disbelief (if the common man was in a position to find out in the first place!) unless the existing local mythos allowed for such a possibility (which would probably be the case at least somewhere). I guess the bottom line is that we should remember that PC's knowledge of Mystara is not representative of the local populace (PCs are by all accounts, rare and exceptional individuals, and will often have a reason to know things that the surrounding farmers could scarce imagine, such as the existence of the planes). I like to think that in places like Glantri City, with means at the disposal of many of its residents, a self-satisfied smugness prevails among the citizens, so that many regard their city as a beacon of knowledge in a world of backwater beliefs. Jim Sahlas *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 23:58:15 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Chirch of Traladar enemies Another possible "enemy" of the Church of Traladara to consider is the "Cult of Halav", which is almost certainly not sponsored by Halav and thus may be a "front" for one of the Entropic Immortals. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 02:18:59 PST From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Meeting of European Listmembers Hi Brizzio All this plan seems sympathetic, but some peaple (i belong to them ) might work during this time ... >Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 21:17:58 +0100 >To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM >From: Fabrizio Paoli >Subject: [MYSTARA] - Meeting of European Listmembers >Reply-To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM > >Do you remember my message about a meeting of European MML members to be >held next summer in Paris? >I got about 10 positive answers. >The meeting will start on a monday so people can come during the week-end >and spend it in Paris if they wish. >The following is a schedule of our mini-con devised by Herve and approved >by me and DM. >We've not fixed an exact date yet, but it will sometime between the last >week of July and the last week of August. If you're interested let me know >(in private e-mail) your favourite date. We hope to decide on a final date >before the end of this year. >Also, if you've some questions feel free to ask me or Herve about it. > >Day 1: Monday. 14h: 1st meeting. We all gather somewhere (indoors), >meet, pay for the convention (unless it's done before) and get our gift >(yes, there'll be a nice gift for everyone), and start discussion >about Mystara. Discussion can include things like: why we like Mystara, >how we want it evolve, what makes it stand apart, whether we want it >back or only on the net, why we like this country or that culture or >that NPC, ... People can stay as late as they wish in the night >discussing in broad or small groups on various subjects. During the day >it is also possible to sign on for various RPG session that will be held >tuesday. Items can be sold/purchased if some brought stuff they want to >part from. >Day 2: Tuesday. All RPGs start at their set time (morning, afternoon... >depends on the DM). This is a roleplaying day. Play can continue into the >night if needed... >Day 3: Wednesday. 14h: We meet again. We discuss Mystara again. We ask >if they liked the convention and what they'd want to see next year (or >not see again). We vote on the site of next year's convention. When >we've had enough, we go together to the Champs-Elysees and sit at a cafe >to drink something together. Then we split. >After: People who wish to visit Paris more can do it the rest of the >week if they can take enough vacancy... Also some may reside in the same >hotel, or even if they don't they may have made good friends with >others, and may then spend some more time together either visiting >Paris, or discussing and/or rolepaying more... > >************** >Fabrizio Paoli >brizio@gdr.net >http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 >************** >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. Marc-Antoine GUIDAULT ŕ mag@mel.teamlog.fr ou chasnans@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/7837 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 10:41:50 EST From: Demmero@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Chirch of Traladar enemies Another potential enemy of the Church of Traladara is Yeenoghu (better known as Ranivorus on Mystara). He is the patron of gnolls (a.k.a. Beast-Men), the ancestral enemies of the Traladaran people. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 17:39:00 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Beastmen (was: Mystaran Theology) On Wed, 25 Nov 1998 RocksHope@aol.com wrote: > I believe the section on Beastman in the Hollow World clearly states that was > how the Beastman were created, evil souls were "punished" by becoming > Beastmen. But for some reason or another that I don't remember, this practice > stopped (whichever Immortal was responsible got caught?). Perhaps it was just > the intentional placing of souls in particular bodies on a wide scale was > stopped, not the reincartions themselves. > Besides, as James knows so well, Stefan Karameikos is the reincarnation of > Halav :). Hel created the Beastmen. I dont think that was to punish the evil souls, rather a way to bring them back. This never stopped. even today, many orcs and other humanoids learn that they were something else in a previous life.. Hĺvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 17:58:04 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - What the common Mystaran know about... On Wed, 25 Nov 1998, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > At 13.14 25/11/98 +0100, Hĺvard Rřnne Faanes wrote: > > >What exactly does "published" mean in your campaign? I havent quite made > >up my mind to whether the Printing Press has been invented IMC. At any > > Well, there should be a magical printing press somewhere in Thaytis or > Karameikos, otherwise Prospero wouldn't have published his PWAs. The PWAs dont exist IMC. Is this blasphemy? ;) I use the stuff from them, but the books themselvs dont exist in my Mystara. > >rate, books should be expensive. > Agreed. I don't expect the common man to but one, but clerics, mayors, > burgomasters... may. Yep. Doesnt mean every cleric has every book though.. > There was an humorous article in Dragon #216 that mentioned some Mystaran > "newspapers" like "Ierendi Adventurer's Quarterly". > Obviously they're not published daily and they're not meant for the common > man, but maybe you can find a copy (though an old one) even in the inn of > the remostest of the more advanced countries. I sort of tend to ignore the more humourous elements from Mystara stuff. Well, it can be fun to read, but I leave it out of my campaign. > >Maybe. OR maybe this would confuse the masses? > Don't know. I consider clerics also teachers (see below for more). Clerics are teachers IMC aswell. That doesnt mean they arent selective about what they teach their students though... > >Why on earth would they want to establish a > >colony in Green Bay? > To win the Superbowl, don't you know that one of the greatest Heldannic > leaders is named Brett Favre? :-) Probably. ;) Also, it makes sense in the Princess Ark, story-wise to have the Heldanners around at all times :) > >Yes. I wouldnt say _Very_ dark, but literacy is not common among > >commoners, neither is education at all. People simply dont see any use of > >it since they are more concerned helping out with the crops. This attitude > >lasted into the 19th Century in the real world, maybe even longer. > > Yes, but in the RW there's no magic. > I just can see why spellcasters shouldn't use their magical skills to help > everyone live better. Teleport platforms and continual lights in the > streets are nice, but education should really be one of the foremost > priorities. Teleport platforms and continual lights are found in Glantri City, but at least IMC they arent around everywhere. IMC spellcasters arent really all that humanitarian. They do stuff to help themselves, but dont care/dont have resources to help everyone. I guess my campaign is a bit darker than yours in a way... Well, the mood isnt dark, but people have the living standards of people in RW's middle ages. > IMC clerics also teach the people (especially children) how to read and > write and a bit of math. Obviously not every Temple does this freely. And, even if they do, can commoners afford to send their children to school? They need them to help work in the fields or in the shops or whereever you see... :) Hĺvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 12:54:17 -0800 From: dlegend@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Chirch of Traladar enemies Thanks for the feed back. I think I will go with Atzanteotl. I will have a small number of his priest, that will be involved with the Iron Ring. I can have them use the Iron Ring, to cause corruption and other evil deeds. dlegend@earthlink.net *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 19:36:22 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: [MYSTARA] - Learning Magic (was: Mystaran Theology) At 17.09 25/11/98 -0600, Tim wrote: >There are other ways to learn magic other than the Great School. It >would seem likely that some can pick it up just watching someone else >(or there needs to be more explaining how wizards start out at 1st >level). Usually first level wizard have some sort of teacher, who teached them the basics of magic and gave them their first spellbook. In Karameikos (GAZ time) this teacher is usually Teldon of the Mages' Guild. In Glantri it could be one of the many wizards that live in the countryside, or maybe the school has a special team of mages that goes from village to village in search of talented people to recruit. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 14:29:53 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Beastmen (was: Mystaran Theology) In a message dated 1998-11-26 11:54:59 Eastern Standard Time, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no writes: > Hel created the Beastmen. I dont think that was to punish the evil souls, > rather a way to bring them back. This never stopped. even today, many orcs > and other humanoids learn that they were something else in a previous > life.. True, but I think when Ka led the Beastmen to the Hollow World he apparently enabled them to opt out of that karmic loop. Now only the goblinoid descendants of the Beastmen are reincarnations of evil souls. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 21:10:29 +0100 From: "Hecate" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Dragons... During a combat with a Dragon the following question was ask: Does a Dragon fly, resting at the same place, or must he necessary to move ??? I can't answer that... Is somebody that can give a good theory ??? Thanks. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 15:15:17 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [GANDERG@tc.gc.ca: The Jarldom of Ystmarhavn] Haavard wrote: >Cool Stuff Geoff! > Thanks! >Im really sorry I didnt have time to comment on it when you sent me the >preview URL. I really like this though. Why do I get Northern Ireland >associations? :) Ohhh, I dunno... :) To be honest that was one influence, but who doesn't like an ongoing conflict with political overtones? >Do you think its time for the Antalians to kick out the other guys? Maybe >with some help from Ostland Invaders? Funny you should mention that...stay tuned, you might see something "interesting" happen. ;-) Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 19:56:20 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Commune (was: A Creation Myth) At 20.18 25/11/98 -0600, Tim wrote: >I think plenty are missing that the spell commune is to >advance the storyline the DM is setting before the players and not to be >used to find out questions that don't serve that purpose. Will >Immortals see that much difference in the questions "Is the world flat?" >and "Should I wear black today?" Well, maybe from a gaming point of view you're right. OTOH if you put yourself in the clothes of a Mystaran clerics you won't know anything about advancing "the storyline the DM is setting before" you. I was trying to consider how I would use the spell if I was a real Mystaran, not just a player. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #724 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, November 27 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 725 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - What the common Mystaran know about... Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons... [MYSTARA] - Grid Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons... Re: [MYSTARA] - Grid [MYSTARA] - Gaming Etiquette? Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Commune (was: A Creation Myth) Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology Re: [MYSTARA] - Gaming Etiquette? Re: [MYSTARA] - Gaming Etiquette? Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Commune Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons... Re: [MYSTARA] - Gaming Etiquette? Re: [MYSTARA] - Gaming Etiquette? Re: [MYSTARA] - Gaming Etiquette? [MYSTARA] - HW 1015 almanac supplement: FLAURMONT ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 19:58:33 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - What the common Mystaran know about... At 17.58 26/11/98 +0100, Hĺvard Rřnne Faanes wrote: >Well, it can be fun to read, but I leave it out of my campaign. I see, my campaign is quite the opposite :-) >Teleport platforms and continual lights are found in Glantri City, but at >least IMC they arent around everywhere. Same here. >And, even if they do, can commoners afford to send their children to >school? They need them to help work in the fields or in the shops or >whereever you see... :) Good point. What about evening school? :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 00:46:53 +0100 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?=" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons... > > During a combat with a Dragon the following question was ask: > > Does a Dragon fly, resting at the same place, or must he necessary to move ??? > > I can't answer that... Is somebody that can give a good theory ??? There is a rule somewhere in D&D or AD&D (I think it is in Mystara DoTE) which divides flying creatures in categories. I think that most winged fliers fall n the category which forces them to move a % of their round MV to keep themselves aloof. Some winged fliers (like giant insects) and magical fliers (fly spell, creatures of Elemental Air) can hover without moving. Andrés *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 19:34:09 EST From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Grid Hi ho I missed part of this thread... but, should I be in any position to build my own web site, one thing I'd really like to do is generate some new maps. I have yet to find the perfect piece of software but I'd love to check this utility out. If you're sending samples around or if you know where I can acquire it/get more info, please let me know at Ambreville@AOL.com. Thanks! Bruce Heard >Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 21:17:16 -0500 (EST) >From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Grids >Graph Paper Designer is a small utility that allows you to print graph >paper on your printer. At this time, Graph Paper Designer will create >regular square graph paper, and hex paper. A variety of parameters are >user configurable, so that you can customize your graph paper to your >needs. >This sounds like a neat utility for someone like me to try out. If you >are sending it out, can you send it to: >ganderg@tc.gc.ca? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 20:18:01 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons... In a message dated 1998-11-26 15:34:29 Eastern Standard Time, hecate@chez.com writes: > During a combat with a Dragon the following question was ask: > > Does a Dragon fly, resting at the same place, or must he necessary to move ?? > ? > > I can't answer that... Is somebody that can give a good theory ??? No theorizing is needed -- most dragons have a maneuverability class of C, which requires them to move at no less than half their maximum aerial movement rate when flying. See introduction to Monstrous Manual for full details of maneuverability classes. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 20:56:09 -0800 From: dlegend@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Grid The other day I stumbled on a map maker. You can you use it to make make wilderness maps like the ones in the Gazetteers. It's not bad and its free. get it here under the download section http://pwp.starnetinc.com/akira/ dlegend@earthlink.net - -----Original Message----- From: Ambreville@aol.com To: Mystara-L@MPGN.COM Date: Thursday, November 26, 1998 4:43 PM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Grid >Hi ho > >I missed part of this thread... but, should I be in any position to build my >own web site, one thing I'd really like to do is generate some new maps. I >have yet to find the perfect piece of software but I'd love to check this >utility out. If you're sending samples around or if you know where I can >acquire it/get more info, please let me know at Ambreville@AOL.com. > >Thanks! > >Bruce Heard > >>Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 21:17:16 -0500 (EST) >>From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) >>Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Grids > >>Graph Paper Designer is a small utility that allows you to print graph >>paper on your printer. At this time, Graph Paper Designer will create >>regular square graph paper, and hex paper. A variety of parameters are >>user configurable, so that you can customize your graph paper to your >>needs. > >>This sounds like a neat utility for someone like me to try out. If you >>are sending it out, can you send it to: > >>ganderg@tc.gc.ca? > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 22:47:38 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Gaming Etiquette? Hiyall, Here's a situation for you to ponder, and tell me if it happens IYC. Whether or not it does, what do you think of it? Would something like this compromise gamer's etiquette? In a campaign I'm currently playing in (while my Mystara campaign is in hiatus), the GM frequently runs private sessions for his girlfriend, who is also a player in the group. We all show up Saturday night, and the GM says something like, "Oh, by the way, since the last time we played, [girlfriend]'s character infiltrated the enemy castle, rescued the prisoners you were looking for, and was made a Knight of the Realm." Would I be alone in thinking that I (and other players in the group) am essentially being relegated to a bit-player role, since none of the rest of us get these "private" roleplaying sessions? Has anyone else played in a group where something like this happened? Just a question, Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 23:03:56 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Commune (was: A Creation Myth) Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > > Well, maybe from a gaming point of view you're right. > OTOH if you put yourself in the clothes of a Mystaran clerics you won't > know anything about > advancing "the storyline the DM is setting before" you. > I was trying to consider how I would use the spell if I was a real > Mystaran, not just a player. I'm trying to look at it from the Immortals point of view and thus, the DMs. Clerics may have asked questions about the world around them before. There should be teachings about when and how to use the commune spell available to them. The Immortals (DM) should look at a question like "Is the world round?" as why the cleric needs to know that. If the need is there, then the question is valid. That advances the DM storyline. But if there is no validity to the question, then I think an Immortal would punish the cleric in some way for not treating a gift with respect. BTW, on the question if Mystarans know if the world is round. I had forgotten about skyships. They could provide enough clues that the world is in fact round depending out how high they go. A noticable curved horizon is all that's needed. - -- Tim This has been a Galwylin® Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 03:04:06 EST From: BoBoII@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology In a message dated 11/25/98 3:47:09 PM, you wrote: <> I don't like the lyrics; but it's got a catchy melody, and a beat you can dance to! BoBo II *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 01:41:49 PST From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gaming Etiquette? Hi Geoff >Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 22:47:38 -0500 (EST) >Subject: [MYSTARA] - Gaming Etiquette? >Hiyall, > >Here's a situation for you to ponder, and tell me if it happens IYC. >Whether or not it does, what do you think of it? Would something like this >compromise gamer's etiquette? > >In a campaign I'm currently playing in (while my Mystara campaign is in >hiatus), the GM frequently runs private sessions for his girlfriend, who >is also a player in the group. We all show up Saturday night, and the GM >says something like, "Oh, by the way, since the last time we played, >[girlfriend]'s character infiltrated the enemy castle, rescued the >prisoners you were looking for, and was made a Knight of the Realm." > >Would I be alone in thinking that I (and other players in the group) am >essentially being relegated to a bit-player role, since none of the rest >of us get these "private" roleplaying sessions? IMO all of this depend of your view point ... Because of my study (and now my job) i missed many sessions of the campain, and i become a shadow among the players ... well like Raistlin ;o) I understand that your problem is that the situation don't come from your acts but these of your friends ... Well you can just ask him if you belong to the background without anymosity (hem ... not intending to hurt him) if he's a true friend, or if you don't care of him, wether or not you're interested by the campain, be angry and "CRY HAVOC !!!" >Has anyone else played in a group where something like this happened? It must appear when couples are created since nothing can be the same after ... After all we're not dwarves nor elves, we *change* ;o) Marc-Antoine GUIDAULT ŕ mag@mel.teamlog.fr ou chasnans@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/7837 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 10:43:39 +0100 (MET) From: Agathokles Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gaming Etiquette? On Thu, 26 Nov 1998, Geoff Gander wrote: > Hiyall, > > Here's a situation for you to ponder, and tell me if it happens IYC. > Whether or not it does, what do you think of it? Would something like this > compromise gamer's etiquette? > > In a campaign I'm currently playing in (while my Mystara campaign is in > hiatus), the GM frequently runs private sessions for his girlfriend, who > is also a player in the group. We all show up Saturday night, and the GM > says something like, "Oh, by the way, since the last time we played, > [girlfriend]'s character infiltrated the enemy castle, rescued the > prisoners you were looking for, and was made a Knight of the Realm." What were the other characters doing during this time? IMO, those events can disrupt the time consistency of a campaign. > > Would I be alone in thinking that I (and other players in the group) am > essentially being relegated to a bit-player role, since none of the rest > of us get these "private" roleplaying sessions? No, you wouldn't. > > Has anyone else played in a group where something like this happened? Well, this year some of my players decided they would like to play twice a week instead of once. As not all of the players could come on this second date, I started a second campaign with new characters (I had a Known World campaign, now I started a Savage Coast one, so that the two parties are far enough). I find this a good solution, so if your GM has enough time, he should really consider the idea of starting a new campaign/adventure instead of having "private roleplaying sessions". Also, we often don't play if there isn't more than one half of the players present. Giampaolo Agosta *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 13:17:08 +0200 (EET) From: Anias Pasi Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Commune Hello! In responce to many persons, here are some thoughts I would like to bring up on this commune-discussion. Some of them are allready been pointed out by others, but never mind. This will be a long one, sorry... First of all, for the original question: yes, the wise peoples of Mystara would know a lot more about their world than the normal peasants, or the wise men of RW middleages. With the help of all their magics they must know that the world is round. They know that there are many immortals (only a fool would deny the fact. The question is more about how strong they are, and which ones are worth honoring). It is however worth noting, that quite a lot of this information would not be accessible for the common man. Why would a church admit the excistence of other gods to the peasants? Why would a Noble Alphatian Mage even discuss geography with a peasant? The normal folk would be more depending on the facts they can see, and even the young scholars might be hard pressed to find all the knowledge his ansestors have hoarded. Also it is worth noting, that not all of the RW medieval peoples were quite so ignorant as one could assume. It was not Columbus's own idea that the world would be round. Hundreds of sailors knew it allready. Columbus just was the first to get a Queen to give him the ships to go and see, what there is on the other side. - - On the question as to what the Immortals would tell I would firstly claim that no Immortal is forced to give any answers, nor do they have to tell the thruth. After all, they have granted the priest the power to ask]the questions, so they can take the power away. (Picture this: The DM: As Grafton the priest prepares to hear the sound of his god giving the answer to the guestion, he shuddenly feels a coldness in his stomach. In a flash of pain the spell evaporates. You have angered Your god, what will You do?) What the immortals would not answer would be the questions they want the priest to sort out himsels (IMHO) and the questions that would violate the rules of the Immortals (A fact). After all, one can not affect the mortal world too much, which some answers would do. Also the questions that would be blashemous would be out (were You a mortal). Furthermore, the Immortals do make mistakes. Not so much from ill memory, but from not knowing. Or if they have been lead to misinformation themselves. neither do they know everything, like the future. Then some Immortals might either lie, guess or even say maybe. Or accept that it is not yet known. And thenagain, some immortals might know something about future, while some wouldnt tell (Khronus) even if they knew. All of this depends much of the immortals in question anyway. Or his personality. It helps if one tries to familiarice himself with the immortals the priests would worship, as well as possible. Also one must keep in mind that the priest's really worship the immortals. Some of them might be quite unwilling to ask anything but the most important ethics questions straight from their immortals. rather they would find out with conventional meanings, or by studying the ancient scripts. Thenagain, some immortals might tolerate more questions. It might help if You would think about the ancient Greeks... I would think that the ethic questions are most acceptable anyway. Also i think that the cleriks usually use too much magic anyhow. So there. Pasi Some snaps from the previous mails: > > Spell usage is another think that puzzles me. > > There's a not-so-high-level clerical spell that, though heavily restricted > > by the rules, can give Mystarans much more knowledge than the one RW people > > had in the Middle Age. > > A few simple questions that 10+ level clerics may have asked to their > > Immortal in the past centuries can be: > > - Is the world flat? > > - Were you once a mortal? > > - Are there any other Immortals beside you? > > - Will the Aquas Dolphins win the next hardball championship? > > - Does someone inhabit Matera? > > Obviously the Immortal is not compelled to tell the truth, but: > > - Would a lawful Immortal tell a lie to his clerics? > > - Will a busy Immortal always remember to answer no (or yes) to certain > > questions? > > - Will an Immortal never make a mistake? > Why am I doing this? > To preserve a certain medeival feel in the setting. If clerics can ask > their immortals anything and expect a clear answer, then there will be no > mysteries left on Mystara. - -- X Pasi Anias X p.03 - 2533536 X \\|// X X Sammonkatu 8-10 G 62 X a122286@proffa X (o o) X X 33540 Tampere X .cc.tut.fi X o000--(_)--000o X *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 07:16:49 -0500 From: Jdaly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons... Are you asking if dragons can hover (ie; remaining in the air without having to actually move forward, up or down)? I would say they definitely can. This gives them the ability to use all the physical weapons at their disposal (kicks, tail, claws, bite). However, you do have to consider whether the immediate environment is large enough to allow the dragon to fly at all! Hecate wrote: > During a combat with a Dragon the following question was ask: > > Does a Dragon fly, resting at the same place, or must he necessary to move ??? > > I can't answer that... Is somebody that can give a good theory ??? > > Thanks. > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 07:25:41 -0500 From: Jdaly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gaming Etiquette? Yikes! I had a situation close to this....I let my girlfriend go through a side adventure (Aligorum, by the way), in which she acquired all sorts of nifty rakasta-specific equipment. Since that stuff is rare, I didn't feel too bad in doing it... But I did get the feeling it put some players off. Sometimes, comments offered with a level of brevity can get the point across, and yet allow the GM to retain self-respect. What you don't want, is to back him into a corner, start a big fight, and lose half the players. "Sheesh! Where was my character during all this?" (said with a smile) seems perfectly reasonable. I mean, you had to be doing something, right? Maybe you could even say, "Alright, while she is doing that, I am going to talk the rest of the group into treasure hunting in the dark woods. But first we will look for a young, inexperienced, mercenary to fill her absence." This gives a subtle message, while at the same time allowing his girlfriend to go along on the adventure with a first-level character. Either the GM will have to break character and devise a way to not allow you to proceed in that direction, or he will have to start keeping better track of what everyone is doing when his girlfriend is going off on these jaunts. If she ends up spending weeks away from the main group, then she won't really be a part of the group anymore...either she will have to be content with her own solo campaign, or the GM will have to stop doing these side treks except in unimportant, short intervals (no problem with her killing an owl bear and getting a few coppers, right?) Does this help any? Geoff Gander wrote: > Hiyall, > > Here's a situation for you to ponder, and tell me if it happens IYC. > Whether or not it does, what do you think of it? Would something like this > compromise gamer's etiquette? > > In a campaign I'm currently playing in (while my Mystara campaign is in > hiatus), the GM frequently runs private sessions for his girlfriend, who > is also a player in the group. We all show up Saturday night, and the GM > says something like, "Oh, by the way, since the last time we played, > [girlfriend]'s character infiltrated the enemy castle, rescued the > prisoners you were looking for, and was made a Knight of the Realm." > > Would I be alone in thinking that I (and other players in the group) am > essentially being relegated to a bit-player role, since none of the rest > of us get these "private" roleplaying sessions? > > Has anyone else played in a group where something like this happened? > > Just a question, > > Geoff > > -- > Geoff Gander, BA 97 > Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon > Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog > au998@freenet.carleton.ca > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 15:49:59 +0100 From: Cobaye Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gaming Etiquette? Not between a guy and his girlfriend, but between twins. They were gaming between each other, and when they came back in the campaign, they have done lot of things we've intempted to do. I think it probably comes from the fact they pass much more time playing than the other part of your group. But your GM must make a choice: He try to masterize fairly the entire group, or he get continue to masterize his girlfriend alone. and if he wish to masterize his girlfriend he can do so, but in another campaign, with no interaction with yours. Do you think it could be possible to reserve the entire gaming for his girlfriend? No of course not. But if she appreciate playing alone with your GM, a solution for her is that she could be to play elsewhere but alone, no? friendly, fred "Cobaye"de Laval Geoff Gander a écrit: > Hiyall, > > Here's a situation for you to ponder, and tell me if it happens IYC. > Whether or not it does, what do you think of it? Would something like this > compromise gamer's etiquette? > > In a campaign I'm currently playing in (while my Mystara campaign is in > hiatus), the GM frequently runs private sessions for his girlfriend, who > is also a player in the group. We all show up Saturday night, and the GM > says something like, "Oh, by the way, since the last time we played, > [girlfriend]'s character infiltrated the enemy castle, rescued the > prisoners you were looking for, and was made a Knight of the Realm." > > Would I be alone in thinking that I (and other players in the group) am > essentially being relegated to a bit-player role, since none of the rest > of us get these "private" roleplaying sessions? > > Has anyone else played in a group where something like this happened? > > Just a question, > > Geoff > > -- > Geoff Gander, BA 97 > Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon > Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog > au998@freenet.carleton.ca > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 08:57:57 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gaming Etiquette? > says something like, "Oh, by the way, since the last time we played, > [girlfriend]'s character infiltrated the enemy castle, rescued the > prisoners you were looking for, and was made a Knight of the Realm." > Yeash! > > Has anyone else played in a group where something like this happened? > In the early '80s I played with a group of folks that (mostly) lived fairly close to each other, while I lived several miles away. They'd sometimes have gaming sessions that I couldn't be at. I don't think something like that is bad ettiquete. However, on occassion something like you describe did happen as well. We generally switched back and forth between playing & DMing, "round robin" style. One member of our group was somewhat manipulative (oh, and *no*, it wasn't me.) There would seem to be gaming sessions that only he & one other person (wouldn't always be the same person each time) would be at, and his character would end up with several goodies no one else had, and always seemed to be several levels in front of anyone else. This would happen every time we started a new campaign, in whichever game (usually D&D, but sometimes Traveller, Top Secret, etc; in some games no "levels" were available, but there were other ways of improving the characters and getting more "goodies" than everyone else). I never said anything at the time, though it bothered me a lot, and did have the tendancy to reduce everyone else to the status of near-henchmen in this player's orbit. If that happened now, I'd hope I'd speak up. Your DM is out of line. Point out what you see as wrong with this campaign, and rather than saying they shouldn't play, suggest that they start a completely different, separate campaign for the times when only the two of them are around. If what they're really after is the oportunity to play at times when no one else is around, for fun, then they should have no problem with that. If, on the other hand, what they're really after is a way to sneak benifits to one prefered player, then. . . . . *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 09:17:39 PST From: "Joshuan Gallidox Publishing" Subject: [MYSTARA] - HW 1015 almanac supplement: FLAURMONT FLAURMONT 1, AC 1015: Yohtians Unite. Location: Yoht, Kogolor Lands. HW Description: An army marches out of the city of Yoht onto the nearest village. The Yohtians are rather disorganized for a dwarven force, but their crushing superiority in sheer numbers allows them to wipe out the whole village which is caught totally unprepared; only a few escape to safety into the mountains. The village is burnt and the Yohtians march back home. What This Means: The Burrower that rests beneath the dwarven city of Yoht was momentarily released from stasis during the Week Without Magic in AC 1009. Though the beast was also left mostly powerless from the absence of magic, it was left more aware than it used to after the return of the weakened Spell of Preservation. Furthermore, the monthly 3-hours shadowfall brought by the passage of Alphatia also decreases the effect of the Spell of Preservation, and the Burrower is most active on such days. After years of influencing the Yohtians, it went a step further this time by commanding them to destroy a nearby village that resisted its mind control. What The PCs Can Do: Because there is no central government in the Kogolor Lands, it is unlikely that other communities investigate the matter and realize the threat. The PCs may run into the few surviving villagers, though, and search for the source of the Yohtians' sudden aggression. Puzzling the truth out will prove difficult, however, because the influence of the Burrower changes with the period of the month. FLAURMONT 8, AC 1015: Zorok's Surprising Visitor. Location: Toralai Territory, Neathar Lands. HW Description: The camp of Chief Zorok has an unexpected visitor. Mysteriously appearing in the camp, the figure offers to aid Zorok and the Neathar in their fight against the Alphatians. Zorok halts his guards and tells the visitor to speak. The figure introduces himself as Zandor, an Alphatian that is disenchanted with his fellows. Zandor offers his insight and magic to Zorok. Zorok asks Zandor what he wants in exchange. Zandor replies that the reverses to the Alphatians will suffice as payment. He does add that he would prefer to have access to any captured spellbooks or enchanted items. Zorok, whose bias prevents from being interested in Alphatian magic, agrees and calls for food and drink. Over the meal, Zandor and Zorok discuss their options. Zorok wants to stage an assault against Haldemar itself. Zandor disagrees, citing that doing so could prove disasterous, and suggests an assault on the town of Dogrel instead. In his opinion that attack would be easier and provide valuable experience to the Neathar; later, when the Neathar are more experienced, then a concerted assault on Haldemar may be initiated. Zorok tells him of earlier attempts on Dogrel that had failed, but Zandor assures him that between the two of them they should be able to succeed. Zorok is wary but eventually agrees. (See Th. 23, Th. 27; Ya. 4, Kl. 2.) What This Means: Zandor decides to approach Zorok to initiate a raid against Dogrel. This is mainly to gain the spellbooks that he expects to find in Dogrel. He also sees such an attack as an interesting way to afford some personal revenge on King Dogrel. Zandor feels that razing Dogrel will certainly draw the attentions of the Empire, who will investigate and uncover Dogrel's practices of unauthorized enslavement and expansion. Zorok has lost some of his prestige within the Neathar. With the failed attacks on Dogrel and the abduction of his own daughter, he is anxious to regain his stature. He wants to launch an assault on Haldemar to retrieve his two daughters as well as hurt the Alphatians. He is wary of Zandor but the promises of success have made it difficult for him to dismiss his aid. Zandor's arguments have merit so he listens and the more he thinks about it, the more he agrees with it. Zorok also notes that an assault on Dogrel would need far fewer warriors than an assault on Haldemar, which is much more favorable as Neathar warriors are needed to dissuade further raids from the Krugel Orcs. Zandor's demeanor is that of a caring father figure. At times, he can be caught talking to the Neathar as if they are children. What The PCs Can Do: Alphatian PCs pursuing Zandor may discover his presence within Zorok's camp. However, taking him into custody will prove difficult, as the PCs would not only be facing him, but also the tentative Neathar allies. Neathar PCs loyal to Zorok will find the following days hectic as preparations are made to assault Dogrel. _________________________________ Joshuan Gallidox Publishing publisher of the Mystaran Almanac ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #725 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, November 27 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 726 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Commune (was: A Creation Myth) Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons... Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons... Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons... [MYSTARA] - HW... Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Commune (was: A Creation Myth) [MYSTARA] - Assimilation [MYSTARA] - Faith ! Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Commune (was: A Creation Myth) Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengarian Immortals (was Ixion) Re: [MYSTARA] - Learning Magic (was: Mystaran Theology) Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology Re: [MYSTARA] - Gaming Etiquette? Re: [MYSTARA] - HW... Re: [MYSTARA] - HW... Re: [MYSTARA] - Gaming Etiquette? [MYSTARA] - Thanks! Re: [MYSTARA] - Gaming Etiquette. Re: [MYSTARA] - Gaming Etiquette. Re: [MYSTARA] - Gaming Etiquette. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 12:30:05 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Commune (was: A Creation Myth) Another point to consider is what player characters would do with the answer to a question. For example, the question of whether the world is round (i.e., spherical) or flat is of little practical importance except to somebody who is trying to circumnavigate the globe -- something which nobody on Mystara seem to have enough geographical knowledge to attempt. On the other hand, the Immortals have deemed certain areas of knowledge to be so dangerous that they have agreed not to answer questions about them. For example, virtually any question about ancient Nithia would fall into that category -- so using a Commune spell for that purpose would be useless. So you could consider the old excuse of "There are things man is not meant to know" to limit the Commune spell. However, it has been my experience that players will ask questions with bad assumptions and so will be misled by perfectly accurate answers -- in some cases they are so far off base that I found myself rolling to determine whether the Immortal that they consulted would be sufficiently alarmed by their misinterpretation to provide a more direct revelation. He wasn't, in this case.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 20:27:42 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons... >During a combat with a Dragon the following question was ask: > >Does a Dragon fly, resting at the same place, or must he necessary to move ??? > >I can't answer that... Is somebody that can give a good theory ??? > >Thanks. Have you seen Flight of Dragons? If what that suggests is true, they could hover :) (For those who don't know, in that particular animated cartoon the dragons eat rocks which react with stomach acids to produce hydrogen, which is lighter than air, and so they fly! (weird science!). Incidentally, thats also how the breath fire (they exhale the hydrogen and spark it with their teeth :) Certainly in AD+D, however, I dont believe they can, as already mentioned by maneuverabilty class. Only MC A creatures can hover. An MC C creature (like a dragon) can turn tight enough to make one pass against a stationary target every 3 rounds. (So its swinging around for 2 rounds). Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 13:04:12 -0600 From: chris_d_p@juno.com (Christopher D Pasarilla) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons... Okay, I'm new here, so don't jump all over me if my explanation seems stupid. I'm going to give a crack at this: When fighting a dragon, I think it can hover. That is, if it's going to make a quick attack, such as using its breath weapon or clawing. If it can cast spells (like a gold dragon), then it will need to stay still on the ground. For a character to fight it, he/she is obviously going to need some kind of long-range weapon or be able to fly. I don't if there is any rule regulating this situation, but if there is, I don't pay attention to it. I think it's much cooler to see a dragon hovering, its wings flapping, and then it releasing a jet of hot flames at characters. Shelz "We paid for this camping retreat, so we'll do whatever the hell we want!" - Doug Roselli "COUNSELOR! I WANT TO SPEAK TO THE COUNSELOR! WHERE'S THE COUNSELOR?" - Drunk old man shouting at 1 in the morning at campground ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 15:25:36 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons... > > When fighting a dragon, I think it can hover. That is, if it's going to > make a quick attack, such as using its breath weapon or clawing. If it > can cast spells (like a gold dragon), then it will need to stay still on > the ground. For a character to fight it, he/she is obviously going to > need some kind of long-range weapon or be able to fly. > I'd say that if you want it to be able to do that in your campaign, then by all means go for it (the cover of the 1st Dragonlance module backs you up on this, IIRC; it shows a black dragon "hovering" and blowing it's breath weapon at the fools . . .er, adventureres. . .below). "scientifically" Dragons "can't fly at all" anyhow (too much body mass or something). It's a fantasy monster, so go for it. However, I'd probably limit it to what you describe: the Dragon can make "swooping"/"hovering" attacks, but it can't just "levitate" there all day like a Helicopter hovering. Probably one attack such as you describe (or one round of attacks), and then it either has to fly off (and perhaps circle around and come back to the "prey"), or land. This limitation will give PCs (and other folks) who may lack access to flight-related spells or gear a fighting chance. Btw, welcome to the list. We don't bite (we claw/claw/bite instead 8-)~. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 14:17:17 -0600 From: chris_d_p@juno.com (Christopher D Pasarilla) Subject: [MYSTARA] - HW... Okay, now I feel welcomed! Now I got lucky - my first post was something I understood. I have a confession: I know nothing about Mystara. Actually, I'm a Hollow World and a regualar D&D expert (on this list, that is. I'm a PS and AD&D player on a couple others). If you guys are talking about Mystara and you don't hear from me often, assume that I'm waiting for HW or general D&D subjects to pop up. Now, I would like to ask everybody here who plays or played HW a question. In the DM Sourcebook, it is stated on pg. 105 in the description of the immortal Ixion, that "he created [a central sun] by opening a permanent gate to the Sphere of Energy (which I'm assuming is the elemental of plane of either positive or negative energy), BUT, in the Blood Brethren Adventure Trilogy, adventure one, Nightwail, it is said on page 3 in the description of Thanatos plan "Cause the central sun of the Hollow World, the gate to the Plane of Fire,...". Now, my question: was this a mistake on the part of the adventure creator, or am I misunderstanding the central sun? Is the plane of fire in the sphere of energy? I don't think it is; I own and play Planescape a lot and it doesn't mention that connection anywhere. I don't think it is implied that the plane of fire is in between the two energy planes/spheres, because there is another plane between fire and neg. energy and another plane between fire and pos. energy. Can someone help me out? I don't need to know this for the adventure (I already played it. It lasted over a year), but rather for future reference, in the event that I drop my friend's PC's in that place. Shelz "We paid for this camping retreat, so we'll do whatever the hell we want!" - Doug Roselli "COUNSELOR! I WANT TO SPEAK TO THE COUNSELOR! WHERE'S THE COUNSELOR?" - Drunk old man shouting at 1 in the morning at campground ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 23:05:49 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Commune (was: A Creation Myth) > Well, it's just that I tend to doubt that any self respecting Immortal will > grant a spell that will *require* him (or her) to truthfully answer any > damned fool question that enters the mind of some nosy priest. 8-) Well, it might be a task given to them by the Old Ones. As most immortals know virtually nothing about them, they might be constantly puzzling over the problem why they are obliged to answer this damned foolish questions... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 23:15:22 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Assimilation > Things such as Claransa really bothers me. We have Mystara > practically in the Renaissance and Enlightenment ages without stepping > all the way through. Half the place is in the Dark Ages the rest in the > Industrial. Communication is so developed that books are published and > sold yet there isn't the consequences of the spreading of knowledge > being shown by the assimilating of various cultures. I assume to do this properly an amount of work would be necessary which couldn't be done by TSR AND the MML. And a partial solution would be really dissatisfying, at least for me. BTW, some wonderful cultures would be vanishing soon. RW vikings, for example, are known to have assimilated very fast in their new settlements to the local population - in Russia, Sicily or the Normandy. Are we prepared to see the Mystaran northmen gone? I don't think so. Should me make an exception? Maybe, but where to draw the border which must not be crossed? There are too many different opinions on the list. What some would love dearly, other would hate likewise. For these reasons I fear that such a project is doomed to failure from the beginning. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 23:29:46 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Faith ! > IMC, it takes a special talent to be able to use Magic. Magical training > may also cost money. Studying at the Great School of Magic is really > expensive, and so is probably getting magical education in Alphatia. You > may also have read what I suggested about Temples in Alphatia charging > fees for becoming clerics in their religions.. IMO a pendant to the magical ability of the magic-users should exist. This should be the ability to have faith. Without the intention to insult anybody I assume that nobody on the list have the first ability, but most wouldn't be able to have the faith Mystaran clerics must have to become clerics in the first time. When not having faith it would be nearly impossible to become a cleric. Well, not complete impossible: Immortal: "Do you have faith?" Mortal: "Er, why, yes." Immortal: "Do you have faith in ME?" Mortal: "Er, why, yes." Immortal: "I don't believe you!" Mortal: "Does that mean, that you do not accept me as your cleric?" Immortal: "No! I accept you as my cleric." Mortal: "Cool! Now I'm a cleric! Er, please tell me your name!?" Immortal: "My name is Loki, and first we will improve your skills in the arts of lying..." Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 23:40:30 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Commune (was: A Creation Myth) > Because I hate to change the rules, even if I don't like them and feel > they're "wrong". I know what you mean. :-( You're just gaming (or preparing a game) and reread a rule in whatsever source. Then you think that you don't like this special one, but cannot remember where you have left your additions/modifications. In the end you're using the original rules, dissatisfied about the work you have done for nothing. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 23:45:05 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology > That gives a nice visual. Imagine along the border of Ethengar and > Glantri, a line of burned Glantrians marking the borderlines :) This reminds me when I mastered B10 with my Ethengarian group. When fighting the Iron Ring they cutted the left hand of every dead enemy and putted in on an arrow into the earth. A really impressing sight... And of course very Ethengarian! Jamuga Khan "An intimidated enemy is much simpler to kill." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 23:48:33 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengarian Immortals (was Ixion) > > > Except that Tubak and Yamuga are described as having earned their > > > Immortality by helping the Ethengar tribes survive and adapt, after the > > > GroF. > > That is not the impression that I got -- if they originated in the Spirit > World, > they became Immortals there by means unknowable to mere mortals. > They helped the Ethengars survive after they became Immortals, not on > their way to becoming Immortals. BTW, nothing is known about Cretia, and Ixion and Terra are ancient immortals who do not remember being mortals once. Can it be true that they were spirits indeed? Ixion, the Spirit of the Sun, and Terry, the Spirit of the Earth? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 23:51:52 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Learning Magic (was: Mystaran Theology) > Usually first level wizard have some sort of teacher, who teached them the > basics of magic and gave them their first spellbook. > In Karameikos (GAZ time) this teacher is usually Teldon of the Mages' Guild. > In Glantri it could be one of the many wizards that live in the > countryside, or maybe the school has a special team of mages that goes from > village to village in search of talented people to recruit. Teldon? The man was over 80 around AC 1000. Much work to be done for this venerable wizard. Besides, AFAIK, the minimum requirement for a "teacher" was level 7. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 00:01:30 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Theology > I don't like the lyrics; but it's got a catchy melody, and a beat you can > dance to! > I'm not a poet, and I couldn't remember the title of the RW song I had in mind, but I really couldn't pass this opportunity. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 00:05:50 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gaming Etiquette? > Just a question, > > Geoff Bah! Never play in a group with women! :-) Seriously, my personal experiences with female gamers are only the worst, but I know two who have played for many years (although never in the same group like me). The most catastrophic experiences were always when the women was the friend of a male player. The distraction factor was...high! One time I saw a GM with his friend. First she got all the good things until he noticed that. Since that point she became only trouble and problems. Your case, Geoff, is really annoying and I hope that I will never have to experience that for myself. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 16:04:22 -0800 From: Dave Keyser Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - HW... Christopher D Pasarilla wrote: > Okay, now I feel welcomed! Now I got lucky - my first post was something > I understood. I have a confession: I know nothing about Mystara. > Actually, I'm a Hollow World and a regualar D&D expert (on this list, > that is. I'm a PS and AD&D player on a couple others). If you guys are > talking about Mystara and you don't hear from me often, assume that I'm > waiting for HW or general D&D subjects to pop up. > Now, I would like to ask everybody here who plays or played HW a > question. In the DM Sourcebook, it is stated on pg. 105 in the > description of the immortal Ixion, that "he created [a central sun] by > opening a permanent gate to the Sphere of Energy (which I'm assuming is > the elemental of plane of either positive or negative energy), BUT, in > the Blood Brethren Adventure Trilogy, adventure one, Nightwail, it is > said on page 3 in the description of Thanatos plan "Cause the central sun > of the Hollow World, the gate to the Plane of Fire,...". Now, my > question: was this a mistake on the part of the adventure creator, or am > I misunderstanding the central sun? Is the plane of fire in the sphere > of energy? The D&D multiverse did not have the elemental planes of positive & negative energy. In D&D, the sphere of Energy refers to one of the five Immortal spheres of influence, the others are Matter, Time, Thought and Entropy. In some D&D products, these spheres are referenced as if they were the names to specific planes, but in others, especially the Immortal gold box, it might only mean that the plane is dominated by that particular sphere. So to answer your question, the adventure trilogy is correct, the gate is to the elemental plane of fire. Technically, though, fire lies within the Sphere of Energy's influence, while earth is linked to Matter, water to Time, and air to Thought. Entropy was not linked to an elemental plane, though in AD&D it would be linked to the negative energy plane. Dave Keyser *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 16:18:09 -0600 From: chris_d_p@juno.com (Christopher D Pasarilla) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - HW... Ahhh. I see. I was applying AD&D standards to D&D standards, which doesn't really work. Okay. That mystery solved. On a side note, it was mentioned by Mr. J. Khan that Ixion might not ever remember being a mortal. Good call. I read the DM sourcebook and it stated that he may not have even been a mortal because of the length of time he has spent as an immortal. Shelz "We paid for this camping retreat, so we'll do whatever the hell we want!" - Doug Roselli "COUNSELOR! I WANT TO SPEAK TO THE COUNSELOR! WHERE'S THE COUNSELOR?" - Drunk old man shouting at 1 in the morning at campground ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 16:59:00 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gaming Etiquette? A misogynistic Ethengarian wrote :-) >Bah! Never play in a group with women! :-) ????????? >Seriously, my personal experiences with female gamers are only the worst, >but >I know two who have played for many years (although never in the same group >like me). The most catastrophic experiences were always when the women was >the friend of a male player. The distraction factor was...high! Perhaps you should consider that the situation would be the same with any DM--male or female--who plays favorites with any player. It's too bad that some people can't put aside their personal relationships for a gaming session. Goodness knows that Ariel and I try to kill one another's PCs often enough! ;-) But it's also too bad that people will blame this problem not on the immaturity of the players, but on their gender. Jenn ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 20:25:51 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Thanks! Hey all, Thanks for sharing your views on that question of gaming etiquette I posted the other day! If my GM does the same thing again, I'll take Jeff's approach, and throw a bit of humour into my question about what the rest of us were doing at the time. The Gm's a smart guy, he should be able to pick this one up. I always made the effort, at least, to treat everyone (even my girlfriend) the same as players. I also followed a quorum rule. In most group I ran, we had 3-4 players, so my standing rule was, if more than one player (out of three), or two out of four, could not make it, I wouldn't run the session. If one person couldn't make it in larger groups, I made sure that the players who were there did things that were not "quest essential" - - ie: they'd spend the evening doing some roleplaying and interacting, or maybe having a random encounter of two if they were in town. Then the next time the missing player showed up, I spent some time alone with that person, if they wanted to have their character do something during the time the other PCs were playing. I found this worked out okay. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 02:52:37 +0100 From: Cobaye Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gaming Etiquette. The first time i've played with a girl, i've spent a great gaming time, because she gaves us a dynamic for roleplaying which i've never seen before. And she was my girlfriend. I don't think it's "bad" enougth to play with girls, and I think if there's much less girls than boys playing to ad&d, it's "male's" attitude fault. If we are not able to put away our hormonal&sexual blood, during few hours, i'm asking what we can do without hormonal influence. And much, the best roleplaying ideas i've seen are from girls, and it is these sexists attitudes which is often the cause of conflicts between players. A good DM can integrate it in the game, but it must stay in the game, and restricted at very few players, not an entire group, and not for every scenariis. Jamuga Khan a écrit: > > Just a question, > > > > Geoff > > Bah! Never play in a group with women! :-) > > Seriously, my personal experiences with female gamers are only the worst, > but > I know two who have played for many years (although never in the same group > like me). The most catastrophic experiences were always when the women was > the friend of a male player. The distraction factor was...high! > One time I saw a GM with his friend. First she got all the good things > until he noticed that. Since that point she became only trouble and > problems. > > Your case, Geoff, is really annoying and I hope that I will never have to > experience that for myself. > > Jamuga Khan > > "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 18:14:53 -0600 From: chris_d_p@juno.com (Christopher D Pasarilla) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gaming Etiquette. On Sat, 28 Nov 1998 02:52:37 +0100 Cobaye writes: >The first time i've played with a girl, i've spent a great gaming >time, because >she gaves us a dynamic for roleplaying which i've never seen before. >And she >was my girlfriend. >I don't think it's "bad" enougth to play with girls, and I think if >there's >much less girls than boys playing to ad&d, it's "male's" attitude >fault. >If we are not able to put away our hormonal&sexual blood, during few >hours, i'm >asking what we can do without hormonal influence. And much, the best >roleplaying ideas i've seen are from girls, and it is these sexists >attitudes >which is often the cause of conflicts between players. A good DM can >integrate >it in the game, but it must stay in the game, and restricted at very >few >players, not an entire group, and not for every scenariis. WORD!! I know a few women who have turned out to be better players than men. Sex, gender, race, and age (sometimes) are NOT the basis of what a good role-player is. Shelz "We paid for this camping retreat, so we'll do whatever the hell we want!" - Doug Roselli "COUNSELOR! I WANT TO SPEAK TO THE COUNSELOR! WHERE'S THE COUNSELOR?" - Drunk old man shouting at 1 in the morning at campground ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 04:04:24 +0100 From: Cobaye Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gaming Etiquette. I complitely agree with you, Christopher. Christopher D Pasarilla a écrit: > WORD!! I know a few women who have turned out to be better players than > men. Sex, gender, race, and age (sometimes) are NOT the basis of what a > good role-player is. > > Shelz > > "We paid for this camping retreat, so we'll do whatever the hell we > want!" - Doug Roselli > "COUNSELOR! I WANT TO SPEAK TO THE COUNSELOR! WHERE'S THE COUNSELOR?" - > Drunk old man shouting at 1 in the morning at campground > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #726 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Saturday, November 28 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 727 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - HW... Re: [MYSTARA] - Assimilation Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengarian Immortals (was Ixion) Re: [MYSTARA] - Assimilation [MYSTARA] - information! RE: [MYSTARA] - Gaming Etiquette? Re: [MYSTARA] - information! Re: [MYSTARA] - information! RE: [MYSTARA] - Gaming Etiquette? RE: [MYSTARA] - Gaming Etiquette? Re: [MYSTARA] - Gaming Etiquette? Re: [MYSTARA] - Gaming Etiquette? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 01:41:59 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - HW... > > Okay, now I feel welcomed! Now I got lucky - my first post was something > I understood. I have a confession: I know nothing about Mystara. > Actually, I'm a Hollow World and a regualar D&D expert (on this list, > that is. I'm a PS and AD&D player on a couple others). If you guys are > talking about Mystara and you don't hear from me often, assume that I'm > waiting for HW or general D&D subjects to pop up. > Just some side commentary on this since your question has been answered: "Mystara" is basically the old D&D "Known World" renamed, if you're familiar with that (the gazeteers et al). (Oh, and I apologize if I'm saying something you already know). There are quite a few list members who have a preference for regular D&D (commonly abreviated as "OD&D" to distinguish it from AD&D). And feel free to comment on matters you may not be an expert on; I for one welcome fresh perspectives (or at least I *claim* to welcome fresh perspectives. *G*) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 02:41:29 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Assimilation Jamuga Khan wrote: > > Are we prepared to see the Mystaran northmen gone? I don't think so. > Should me make an exception? Maybe, but where to draw the border which > must not be crossed? There are too many different opinions on the list. > What some would love dearly, other would hate likewise. > > For these reasons I fear that such a project is doomed to failure from the > beginning. Well, that's what I meant to point out. We wouldn't introduce the locomotive in Mystara unless we were prepared for the changes it would bring to the setting. Claransa's and other forms of knowledge like hers will affect the setting and should only be introduced if we're prepared to pay the price for knowledge. Mystara has long withheld the power of change and enlightenment that trade and knowledge bring. Its better to think through what they do introduce into the setting and how it affects it. A paper press alone could have tremedous change to say nothing of actually being able to publish books. It isn't possible for Darokin to enter the industrial age and not affect its trading partner Karameikos. Knowledge spreads and it can spread quickly with books and newspapers. Claransa's book may seem little but its a gaint step towards bringing changes we might not be willing to accept. We can't blame the mountains around nations forever for halting the assimilation. Its best not to ignite the fire than attempt to put it out after its taken to the trees. - -- Tim This has been a Galwylin® Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 07:58:13 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengarian Immortals (was Ixion) In a message dated 1998-11-27 18:27:19 Eastern Standard Time, JamugaKhan@gmx.net writes: > BTW, nothing is known about Cretia, and Ixion and Terra are ancient > immortals who do not remember being mortals once. Can it be true that they > were spirits indeed? > Ixion, the Spirit of the Sun, and Terry, the Spirit of the Earth? Ixion's origin is indeed unknown, but Terra seems to have begun mortal life as a being from the Elemental Plane of Earth. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 07:58:16 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Assimilation In a message dated 1998-11-27 18:29:39 Eastern Standard Time, JamugaKhan@gmx.net writes: > BTW, some wonderful cultures would be vanishing soon. RW vikings, for > example, are known to have assimilated very fast in their new settlements > to the local population - in Russia, Sicily or the Normandy. > > Are we prepared to see the Mystaran northmen gone? I don't think so. > Should me make an exception? Maybe, but where to draw the border which > must not be crossed? There are too many different opinions on the list. > What some would love dearly, other would hate likewise. > > For these reasons I fear that such a project is doomed to failure from the > beginning. But Mystara does have a built in solution to this problem -- remember that museum called the Hollow World? As the Northern Reaches modernize, the Immortals who favor the old ways could save their more conservative followers (and hasten the modernization process while they are at it...) by removing them to the Hollow World as a second, slightly more modern Viking civilization. After all, if the Hollow World can hold both the Traldar and the Milenians, it should be able to hold both the Antalians and the Ostlanders.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 13:23:59 -0000 From: "Nelson Filipe Mota Marques Carreira" Subject: [MYSTARA] - information! Hi folks I'm new here, and I'm going to start playing D&D, but I know nothing about Mystara, so if you could help me by sending as many information you can to me or tell me the addresses of sites about Mystara setting I would be very grateful! Thanx! Nelson >Gold_Wyrm< G.A.B. Home Page: http://frontpage.lightspeed.net/wolfman/gab.htm G.A.B. Consolidated Bad Trader List: http://www.thesocket.com/~wolfman/bad.htm *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 07:12:23 -0800 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Gaming Etiquette? > Hiyall, > Here's a situation for you to ponder, and tell me if it happens IYC. > Whether or not it does, what do you think of it? Would something like this > compromise gamer's etiquette? > In a campaign I'm currently playing in (while my Mystara campaign is in > hiatus), the GM frequently runs private sessions for his girlfriend, who > is also a player in the group. We all show up Saturday night, and the GM > says something like, "Oh, by the way, since the last time we played, > [girlfriend]'s character infiltrated the enemy castle, rescued the > prisoners you were looking for, and was made a Knight of the Realm." > Would I be alone in thinking that I (and other players in the group) am > essentially being relegated to a bit-player role, since none of the rest > of us get these "private" roleplaying sessions? > Has anyone else played in a group where something like this happened? > Just a question, > Geoff Hello All, I would like to cover two points- the one above, and the "side trek" thread that started on gender in gaming... I think that all the responses I read considering the above event were worded much too gentle. With no intent to Flame your GM/Friend, he is not doing his job as a DM plain and simple. If he isn't seeing this as outright favoritism, I have trouble imagining that he understands the concepts of game balance, role-playing, and the other things that make RPG's what they are. The second point, "sexism in RPG's"... I have had very few female players in my campaigns, and I run a "realistic" game as much as possible. The men in my games rule the world and are every bit as "chauvinistic/gallant" as depicted by the various fantasy literature/movies. The female players that I have had in my campaigns have had several things in common, not just gender, and I would not give them up for the world! Finding such a person to me at least is a rare gem. So far, I would have to say that on a per capita basis, the girls beat the guys at role-playing hands down. I have been forced to develop Charisma and Comeliness rules to a degree far exceeding most campaigns because of them... I have seen less power-gaming, fewer arguments, more party unity, and a better social environment in EVERY game that had a female player in it than any without. Despite all this positive feedback, yes I have seen the "bad ones" too. We've had those that distract, those that "lure" players away, those who don't stay on topic, and those who expect favoritism- but the goods have far out-weighed the bads in my personal experience. Without putting too fine a point on it... Jamuga, I was a bit sorry to hear your remarks as I would like love to have Jennifer or Strawberry Jamm in one of my campaigns. Later. Jesse. vanquer@email.msn.com http://www.gryffon.com/leta for all your role-playing needs ICQ. 8004143 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 09:40:25 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - information! > > Hi folks > > I'm new here, and I'm going to start playing D&D, but I know nothing about > Mystara, so if you could help me by sending as many information you can to > me or tell me the addresses of sites about Mystara setting I would be very > grateful! > Well, as far as basic information, the Mystara FAQ 5.5 is a good place to start. I'm pasting it below. And don't thank me for it: it was prepaired by list member Hervé Musseau, so thank him for all the hard work putting it together. 8-) Mystara FAQ version 5.5 by Hervé Musseau Q: What is Mystara? A: Mystara is an imaginary world created by TSR as a campaign world for roleplaying games using the rules of Dungeons and Dragons. Q: What is a roleplaying game? A: Roleplaying games are games in which people play the role of imaginary fantastic characters like warriors or wizards and try to complete an adventure under the guidance of a game master. Q: I never heard of Mystara, but I know a setting called the Known World which looks pretty the same. What's the difference? A: Mystara got a name as a world only recently; before that, it was often referred to as the Known World, although Mystara is more than just the Known World. Q: So, what's Mystara? The Known World and what else? A: Mystara is basically composed of 2 main parts, the Outer World and the Hollow World, plus 2 moons, and some other exotic settings. Q: A Hollow World? A: Yes. Mystara, unlike our earth, is hollow, an empty sphere. It has an internal sun that lights the interior world, making it inhabitable. It holds old civilizations that are now extinct on the Outer World, placed there by the Immortals with strong magic preventing them from evolving much or dying away. The only entrances to the Hollow World are through underground passages between the two worlds, and through the holes that stand in place of the north and south poles. Q: And the Outer World? A: The Outer World is mostly like our Earth. It comprises: * the Known World (now called Old World), where the most civilized countries are located, * Alphatia (only before AC 1009), * the Savage Coast and Hule, * the southern continent, called Davania, * the eastern continent, called Skothar. Q: Why is Alphatia part of Mystara only up to AC 1009? A: Because Alphatia, which is a large continent east of the Known World, sank into the ocean in AC 1009, at the end of the major event called Wrath of the Immortals. It is now a floating continent located in the Hollow World. Q: What exactly is Wrath of the Immortals? A: Wrath of the Immortals (or WotI) is a great campaign that TSR published to update the Known World. It deals with the Great War that involves the major countries of Mystara and that was caused by the Immortals to obtain control of the Nucleus of the Spheres, a powerful artifact located under Glantri. At the end of the war, Alphatia sinks, Glantri and Thyatis have suffered dramatically from the conflict and three new powers enter the political scene of Mystara: the Heldannic Territories, the Hagiarchy of Hule and the "revamped" Kingdom of Karameikos. Q: On the continental map published in the Master DM's book, there are some empires I've never read anything about in other products and on the list, like the Empire of Dorphin IV or the Empire of the Great Khan. Do they exist? Where can I find information about these? A: The map in the Master set is wrong, wrong, wrong! In the series of articles written by Bruce Heard in Dragon Magazine, the first in the series (Dragon #153) explains this all. The map was the was released by a very imaginative Thyatian, and wrongly accepted for the truth. There is no Empire of Dorphin IV, no Empire of the Great Khan, etc. Also, as you probably guessed, the size of the Thyatian Empire was largely exagerated on this map... Q: I've already heard from the Known World, and from the Hollow World too, but never as Mystara. What does all this mean? A: This is because Mystara is a very old world, one of the oldest created by TSR, and, as TSR grew, so did Mystara. All of these product lines are revelant to Mystara: * Mystara, of course, * the Known World and most stuff that were made for D&D (as opposed to AD&D) like these old good modules B and X, or the Gazetteers, * the Hollow World, * Red Steel/the Savage Coast, * Blackmoor. Also, some products bearing the label First Quest are related to Mystara. Q: Blackmoor? I know a Blackmoor, but it's part of Greyhawk, isn't it? A: Blackmoor was, like Greyhawk, the campaign world of one of TSR's founder, Dave Arneson. It was later placed in both Greyhawk and the Known World (as a past kingdom in the later), effectively making three Blackmoors exist. It seems there is no further relation between the two Blackmoors of Mystara and Greyhawk, however, although some people made the assumption; on the other hand, Judge's Guild's Blackmoor likely has much in common with Mystara's, as the DA series for the Known World was also written by Dave Arneson (so that JG First Fantasy Campaign is considered Mystara-relevant). Q: Where is it located? A: Blackmoor was a techno-magical kingdom that blew itself up a few millenia ago. The event shifted the planet's axis and Blackmoor is now the north pole. Sources are contradictory as to where Blackmoor stands; some place it on Brun, some on Skothar. Arguments in favor of Brun are the position of the Inn Between the Worlds and the Nucleus of the Sphere, and the fact that the Known World stands there; this is the solution proposed in some Gazetteers. Arguments in favor of Skothar are its sort of canonical status, and the feeling that all civilizations should not systamatically come from the Known World; this is the solution proposed in the Hollow World box. Note that, if you consider the Hollow World solution to be the truth in your campaign, the map in the box does have a typo : the names of Blackmoor and Thonia have been reversed (Blackmoor was north of the Empire of Thonia according to all other sources). Bruce Heard's opinion on this matter : << Blackmoor -- the travelling legend. If there were archaeologist on Mystara, they would have a devil of time figuring where the darn place was really located. Officially, it's supposed to be up there by the Thonian Marches. Unfortunately, conflicting info has crept into several products, getting in the way of the Thonian theory. The best thing is to assume evidence of Blackmoor's presence elsewhere is the result of later colonizations and outposts. Other communities were also magically displaced (such as a certain ancient tavern in the Broken Lands of the Known World). Definitely a messy development of the World of Mystara! :) >> So officially the answer is Skothar. Q: Ok, and now what's Red Steel? A: Red Steel is a setting that is part of Mystara (west of the Known World), although it was released as a stand-alone setting. Q: I have a player of the Church of Karameikos, and I whant to give him an Immortal, I suppose that it's a church with many Immortals (like the Greek / Latin church) but in Gaz 1 I dind't find any list of Inmortals... A: These are the immortals of the Church of Karameikos, as told by Bruce Heard in an old Dragon Magazine: Asterius (Eternal of Thought), Leader Kagyar (Eternal of Matter) Ilsundal (Hierarch of Thought) Valerias (Hierarch of Matter) Vanya (Empyreal of Time). Also, although Chardastes is a native Traladaran Immortal, he is venerated through the auspices of the Church of Karameikos, not the Church of Traladara. This is extrapolated from info in B1-9 In Search of Adventure. The Immortals of the Church of Traladara are: Halav Petra Zirchev. Q: You spoke of Immortals, what are they? Are they Gods? A: Mystara has a different pantheon when compared to other D&D settings. Most notably, it has no gods, but beings called Immortals. Immortals are mortals who, through their deeds, have reached a higher status granting them more power than mere mortals. Basically, however, Immortals are not very different from Gods of other settings. Q: Is Jaggar von Drachenfelds the Star Dragon? A: No. According to Bruce Heard's article in Dragon #170 http://www.tsrinc.com/periodicals/dragon/backissues/170jun91/170FromHatchlin gTo.txt he became the Star Dragon for a brief period but relinquished the title for absolution. Q: Also you mentionned something about D&D not being AD&D. What does that mean? A: Mystara was the world designed to be used with the rules of D&D (often called OD&D to better distinct it from AD&D and from the generic term D&D which could mean both; OD&D stands for Old D&D or Original D&D - note that some few people call it BD&D for Basic D&D to distinguish it from even older rules). It appeared in the old boxed rules: the Expert box, the Companion box and the Master box. Most of the earlier modules designed for D&D were set in this world. Recently, however, Mystara has been converted to AD&D (along with Red Steel), but many people who play in Mystara do it with the old rules (or their reedition, Rules Cyclopedia). Q: When I read stuff about Mystara I keep seeing acronyms I cannot understand like WotI or PWA. What do they mean? A: There is a list of Mystara relevant acronyms at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/ Q: I heard that the Mystara line was cancelled. Is this true? A: It is unfortunately true. And Red Steel is cancelled too. Some novels pertaining to Mystara may be released as part of the First Quest line, and modules may be part of the Odyssey line. AFAIK, there is no such products in preparation however, though Wizards of the Coast (which bought TSR) has expressed its willingness to publish material for dead worlds, but never namely mentioned Mystara. Keep faith. Joshuan's Almanach was the last product of Mystara (to be precise the novel "The Black Vessel" has been released after, and to be even more precise it deals with the Savage Coast) and the Savages Baronies the last of Red Steel (except for online exclusives). Q: But I saw in TSR's 97 preview that there would be Red Steel modules released as online exclusive. What does this mean? A: TSR has released these modules for free on its site of MPGN at ftp://ftp.mpgn.com and http://www.tsrinc.com. Q: So, if TSR has dropped the line, how can I get new material for Mystara? A: There are many people on the web who love Mystara and have taken upon themselves to keep Mystara alive (and well alive). There is a mailing list dedicated to Mystara (MML) where people discuss together about it, exchanging ideas, points of view, and more. To subscribe, send e-mail to majordomo@mpgn.com. In the body, have the single line: subscribe Mystara-L . It has 224 people, as of end April 98. Not quite a billion served, but we're getting there. As a comparison, there are 395 people on the Realms list, TSR's flagship world (source : Leroy Van Camp, MML admin). There is also the TSR Mystara Message Board (MMB) at http://tsronline.wizards.com:80/mb/system/addnewuser.shtml where discussion revolves mostly around alternate Mystaras. There are also many pages around the net dedicated to Mystara, sometimes with lots of interesting materials. Some of these pages are organized into a Webring, check http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html for info about the Mystara webring. Now more than ever you should express your views on how Mystara should be brought back at http://CWSpot.com/Mystara/SaveMystara or join the SaveMystara Writer's Group whose goal is to get as many adventures and articles to the periodicals as we can. Q: Where can I find the old messages of the Mystara mailing list? A: The digests are collected at ftp://ftp.mpgn.com/Gaming/ADND/Worlds/Mystara/MailingListArchive/ and the oldest ones (prior to 1998) can be found at ftp://ftp.io.com/pub/mailing-lists/mystara-digest/ However for your convenience the most interesting aricles the list has come up with are collected and sorted on Shawn's page at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/ Q: Where can I find the old messages of the Mystara message board? A: There is no archiving of the board. However for your convenience the most interesting aricles the board has come up with are collected and sorted on Shawn's page at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/prodlist.html Q: Where can I find a complete list of the material published for Mystara? A: The most complete lists to my knowledge is at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/prodlist.html It includes rulebooks and modules published by TSR, Mystara-relevant Judge Guild supplements, a list of various magazine #s that contain adventures, rules or world description pertaining to Mystara, novels, TSR net resources, and Clark Ashton Smith stories related to Averoigne. All of these are ranked according to compatibility with Mystara (explicit, implicit, compatible, etc.) and the type of product (campaign source, rules supplement, adventure, etc.). Q: And where can I buy those products? A: Since the Mystara line is out of print, it is difficult to find them. If you're lucky you can find them in any shop that sells RPG stuff, or buy second-hand books. Some places where you can find Mystara stuff on the web: http://www.dragontrove.com/listing.html http://www.titan-games.com/ http://www.rpgspot.com/main.htm http://www.hitpointe.com http://www.eskimo.com/~darkh/ http://www.ida.net/users/groverm/sleeping.dragon/sdh.html http://www.djhobby.com/catalog/index.html http://www.sagesguild.com/ http://www.crazyegors.com/ the newsgroup rec.games.frp.marketplace. Q: Where can I find the FAQ for the Mystara mailing list? A: Check at http://www.lesbois.com/members/malacoda/mmlfaq.htm . AFAIK there is no plain text version of this FAQ. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 08:05:03 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - information! > I'm new here, and I'm going to start playing D&D, but I know nothing about >Mystara, so if you could help me by sending as many information you can to >me or tell me the addresses of sites about Mystara setting I would be very >grateful! Hi Nelson, and welcome. Probably the best place for you to read up on the stuff list members have written about Mystara is Shawn Stanley's site, which is at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 When I started out, I also found it extremely useful to spend a couple of hours perusing the listing for the search "Mystara" on AltaVista: http://altavista.digital.com ...That was the best way I found of finding everyone's home pages, which often have info and work not at the other site. Good Luck! Jenn http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 08:15:10 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Gaming Etiquette? > The female players that I have had in my campaigns have had several things >in common, not just gender, and I would not give them up for the world! >Finding >such a person to me at least is a rare gem. We're fairly isolated here as far as gamers go, so this statement makes me wonder, just *how* "rare" are females in role-playing? I mean, there are only two or three of us here on the list...I guess what I'm asking is, do these attitudes toward women in rpgs persist because of unfamiliarity? Let me say briefly that I am aware that this is off-topic, and I am willing to move it to private mail if anyone requests. My e-mail address is below. >I would like love to have Jennifer or Strawberry Jamm >in one >of my campaigns. Charmer, charmer... :-) Jenn valerya@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 18:12:13 +0100 From: Alvin Gellert Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Gaming Etiquette? >We're fairly isolated here as far as gamers go, so this statement makes >me wonder, just *how* "rare" are females in role-playing? I mean, there >are only two or three of us here on the list...I guess what I'm asking >is, do these attitudes toward women in rpgs persist because of >unfamiliarity? I think there is 2 primary reasons that these attitudes towards women in RPG's persist. The first is, as you mention, unfamiliarity, as there are no doubt more male gamers than female. In Denmark, I think there is approximately 1 female player for every male one, but of course I am not sure. At one point, my campaign had 5 players, all of them female, so they are quite common around here, though many other places in Denmark they are counted as "Very rare" or even "Unique" :) A convention in Denmark once tried a new way of getting more women to play : They offered free entrance and food to all females who participated at the convention. It was a huge bummer, though, as most women gamers stayed away. As one of my players said "I come at conventions as a role-player, not as a woman", which sounded quite fair to me. And not to sound patronizing or trying to be rude in any way, but the average age of players also have something to do with it, I think. I am not sure about how it is in the rest of the world, of course, but in Denmark the average gamer is male, around 14 to 17 years old, and with hormones streaming around him in a cloud. This is not to ridicule younger players or anything, but many boys around that age tend to act "sheepish" around girls. I know I did at times, and I have seen it happen a lot around at games. Several older players also has a problem with girls in gaming groups, as far as I have seen. Either they think it is "inappropriate", because girls often want to do foolish things, like talking to wandering encounters instead of enjoying the xp :) But some also think they need to show off to the girls, and try to impress them. Dunno if these answers were of any help, and I am sorry if I offended anyone. Alvin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 20:51:16 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gaming Etiquette? At 22.47 26/11/98 -0500, Geoff Gander wrote: >Here's a situation for you to ponder, and tell me if it happens IYC. >Whether or not it does, what do you think of it? Would something like this >compromise gamer's etiquette? > >In a campaign I'm currently playing in (while my Mystara campaign is in >hiatus), the GM frequently runs private sessions for his girlfriend, who >is also a player in the group. We all show up Saturday night, and the GM >says something like, "Oh, by the way, since the last time we played, >[girlfriend]'s character infiltrated the enemy castle, rescued the >prisoners you were looking for, and was made a Knight of the Realm." Mmh.. usually people do very different sort of things with their gilfriends, anyway... IMC such things do not happen because the GM (me) has no girlfriend, besides I ran private session for one of my players only once: he was dead and he had to come back from Limbo. I think you should complain to the GM, that's not the proper way to run a campaign IMO. >Would I be alone in thinking that I (and other players in the group) am >essentially being relegated to a bit-player role, since none of the rest >of us get these "private" roleplaying sessions? No, you wouldn't. >Has anyone else played in a group where something like this happened? Not me. In my Mystara group I've just 3 players, so we play only when everybody is present (in fact I'm not playing since May because one of the players is serving in the army). Some years ago I used to play also in another group of 6 people + GM. We usually played if at least half the players were available, with the GM or the other players running also the missing PCs. In that group the Druid was the gamemaster's brother, but I don't think he's ever had "private" roleplaying sessions. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@gdr.net http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 18:59:11 +0100 From: Cobaye Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gaming Etiquette? I think, i'll move in denmark!!!! here in france there's one for twenty players. and i'm sure some GM never seen a girl in a RPG. Alvin Gellert a écrit: > >We're fairly isolated here as far as gamers go, so this statement makes > >me wonder, just *how* "rare" are females in role-playing? I mean, there > >are only two or three of us here on the list...I guess what I'm asking > >is, do these attitudes toward women in rpgs persist because of > >unfamiliarity? > > I think there is 2 primary reasons that these attitudes towards women in > RPG's persist. The first is, as you mention, unfamiliarity, as there are no > doubt more male gamers than female. In Denmark, I think there is > approximately 1 female player for every male one, but of course I am not > sure. At one point, my campaign had 5 players, all of them female, so they > are quite common around here, though many other places in Denmark they are > counted as "Very rare" or even "Unique" :) A convention in Denmark once > tried a new way of getting more women to play : They offered free entrance > and food to all females who participated at the convention. It was a huge > bummer, though, as most women gamers stayed away. As one of my players said > "I come at conventions as a role-player, not as a woman", which sounded > quite fair to me. > And not to sound patronizing or trying to be rude in any way, but the > average age of players also have something to do with it, I think. I am not > sure about how it is in the rest of the world, of course, but in Denmark > the average gamer is male, around 14 to 17 years old, and with hormones > streaming around him in a cloud. This is not to ridicule younger players or > anything, but many boys around that age tend to act "sheepish" around > girls. I know I did at times, and I have seen it happen a lot around at games. > Several older players also has a problem with girls in gaming groups, as > far as I have seen. Either they think it is "inappropriate", because girls > often want to do foolish things, like talking to wandering encounters > instead of enjoying the xp :) But some also think they need to show off to > the girls, and try to impress them. > > Dunno if these answers were of any help, and I am sorry if I offended anyone. > > Alvin > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #727 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Sunday, November 29 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 728 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: RE: [MYSTARA] - Gaming Etiquette? [MYSTARA] - RE: gaming etiquette. [MYSTARA] - A new immortal? Re: [MYSTARA] - Assimilation Re: [MYSTARA] - A new immortal? Re: [MYSTARA] - A new immortal? Re: [MYSTARA] - Gaming Etiquette? Re: [MYSTARA] - A new immortal? Re: [MYSTARA] - Assimilation Re: [MYSTARA] - HW... Re: [MYSTARA] - HW... Re: [MYSTARA] - Thanks! Re: [MYSTARA] - Gaming Etiquette. Re: [MYSTARA] - Assimilation Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengarian Immortals (was Ixion) Re: [MYSTARA] - Gaming Etiquette? Re: [MYSTARA] - Gaming Etiquette? Re: [MYSTARA] - information! Re: [MYSTARA] - Assimilation [MYSTARA] - HW characters outside of the HW... [MYSTARA] - Thyatis Map Re: [MYSTARA] - Assimilation Re: [MYSTARA] - HW characters outside of the HW... Re: [MYSTARA] - RE: gaming etiquette. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 10:32:03 -0800 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Gaming Etiquette? At 7:12 AM 11/28/98 -0800, Jesse LaBranche wrote: > Without putting too fine a point on it... Jamuga, I was a bit sorry to >hear your remarks as I would like love to have Jennifer or Strawberry Jamm >in one of my campaigns. Jesse, flattery will get you everywhere ;-) As for Jamuga's comments ... I think the first sentence was typed with jest in mind, as he did start the rest with "Seriously, ...". His further comments explained that IN HIS EXPERIENCE he has never encountered a female gamer who enhanced the game for a group he played in -- though he did know of two who had played for many years with others. Seeing as the problem he was addressing revolved around the DM and his girlfriend, Jamuga's general observations that the worst situations occured when the woman was a girlfriend of one of the men were appropriate. I think that we should all step back a bit and give the poor guy some breathing room -- I don't think he meant for anyone to take his "bah..." statement too seriously, and I'm certain he wasn't tring to offend anyone. Too many people pounced on the apparently negative statement without looking at the whole message. Jenni - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs strawberry@jamm.com <==> http://www.jamm.com/ <------------------------------------------------------------------> God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. Then God started to think: "I should create things I *like*!" And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 20:37:50 +0100 From: Cobaye Subject: [MYSTARA] - RE: gaming etiquette. I think that we should all step back a bit and give the poor guy some breathing room -- I don't think he meant for anyone to take his "bah..." statement too seriously, and I'm certain he wasn't tring to offend anyone. Too many people pounced on the apparently negative statement without looking at the whole message. I agree. But anyway, i've seen so many times those attitudes in a lot of "meetings", that I thought it would be intersting to tell about a reality, even if Jamuga didn't talk seriously. And but denmark where it seems to be a good place for role playing women, in other places (I think about a lot) it is a fact, that women, in RPGs are not present enough to say with humour that if there's bad moments, it's women fault. I also think that there's another thing we must consider, the question of centers of interest. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 21:46:13 +0100 From: Alvin Gellert Subject: [MYSTARA] - A new immortal? I have a small problem/question, which I hope one of you could help me with. One of my players likes to read through my books, and I rarely have a problem with that. But when they find something weird, and start asking what this and that is, and I have no idea, *then* it starts to be annoying :) When said player looked through Wrath of the Immortals, book one, he read the description of Opal. And listed under "enemies" is the name of 2 immortals, Halav and Bemarris. And of course he had to ask : Who is Bemarris? And to be honest, I have no clue. I don't think I have ever encountered that name before. Not that it matters much, but it sparked my curiousity a little. Does any of you know who he/she/it is, and where he/she/it is mentioned? Alvin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 14:56:00 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Assimilation Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: > > But Mystara does have a built in solution to this problem -- remember that > museum called the Hollow World? As the Northern Reaches modernize, > the Immortals who favor the old ways could save their more conservative > followers (and hasten the modernization process while they are at it...) > by removing them to the Hollow World as a second, slightly more modern > Viking civilization. This is an interesting idea. I've been wanting to update the Northern Reaches to a more modern timeframe. But if the Immortals did 'save' the pre-modernized NR, how would that affect the Known World? All the other civilizations saved in the Hollow World have been retroactively saved. This would be a first modern movement, right? I'm wondering what the ramifications would be if such a thing happen. - -- Tim This has been a Galwylin® Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 15:15:24 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A new immortal? Alvin Gellert wrote: > > When said player looked through Wrath of the Immortals, book one, he read > the description of Opal. And listed under "enemies" is the name of 2 > immortals, Halav and Bemarris. And of course he had to ask : Who is > Bemarris? And to be honest, I have no clue. I don't think I have ever > encountered that name before. Not that it matters much, but it sparked my > curiousity a little. Does any of you know who he/she/it is, and where > he/she/it is mentioned? Check in the next section after the main Immortals are explained. I believe Bemarris was Aries. Why they changed the name of the Greek gods and not the Norse ones is another mystery :) - -- Tim This has been a Galwylin® Production http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 22:22:08 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A new immortal? On Sat, 28 Nov 1998, Tim wrote: > Check in the next section after the main Immortals are explained. I > believe Bemarris was Aries. Why they changed the name of the Greek gods > and not the Norse ones is another mystery :) One reason could be that the module that these Greek Immortals were introduced in (Immortal Storm?) is increadibly silly. The Immortals are not the Greek Gods, but impostors taking the names of these. Implying that Greek Gods exist on Mystara... *shrug* Hĺvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 16:53:25 EST From: RLaRue@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gaming Etiquette? Greetings! I've been lurking just below the surface of this thread and I had to pop in and have my say. My current group consists of myself (age 30), two males (both about 25) and three females (ages 26, 31 and 50-something). Now I'll be the first to admit that my group is far from average (or normal for that matter) but if awards were given out for various titles, here's how things would pan out. Best Role-Player: Female (playing at alternating times a male priest or female fighter, great role-player, lousy in combat and problem solving) Worst Role-Player: Male (playing a male dwarf fighter that if not for the funny clothes would be himself, rolls dice to decide what to do) Biggest Min/Max-er: Male (playing a female gnome illusionist/priest, hates role-playing and problem solving, loves tactical situations) Biggest Power-Gamer: Female (originally playing an elven male fighter, now playing a female human martial artist, regularly asks, "Can I kill something now?") Most Potential: Female (originally playing an elven female fighter/mage, now playing a human female druid, started off wanting "...more stuff!" but has been heard saying "I want to do more investigation and role-playing. I like that stuff.") The funny thing is, the "Best Role-Player" of my group, happens to be my fiancée (we've been together eight years). Coincidence? Actually, yes. The whole group would agree she's the best. Do I show favoritism? I hope not, at the very least I try not to. According to her, I "suck" because I've left her favorite character (the priest) trapped on the Ethereal while I took the rest of the group on a lovely jaunt through the Outer Planes. I had planned on playing out her priest's adventures in a solo campaign, but we never found the time. Now it looks like the other players will play NPCs while we get the priest caught up. What's my point? My point is, it's up to the GM and the players and is, in large part, based on the maturity of the individual. I don't think gender has anything to do with causing or perpetuating favoritism. I think people do. Female gamers can be a varied lot and bring with them something very different (and valuable) to our male-dominated hobby. Perspective. Some of my most memorable gaming situations came from female players (of course, your mileage may vary). The DM who is showing favoritism to his girlfriend isn't doing his job. Not because the object of the favoritism is female, but because he doesn't know how to separate his personal relationship from the game. The best solution I can come up with is being honest. Tell him you think it's unfair (as nicely as possible). If he doesn't understand, then he never will and there's not much you can do about it. A bad situation all around. Good luck. Rick PS Remind me to tell you sometime about a very creative use of a Heroes' Feast scroll (what I like to call "What to do when dinner drops in for friends!"). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 17:59:07 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A new immortal? In a message dated 1998-11-28 16:06:06 Eastern Standard Time, fantasy@post2.tele.dk writes: > When said player looked through Wrath of the Immortals, book one, he read > the description of Opal. And listed under "enemies" is the name of 2 > immortals, Halav and Bemarris. And of course he had to ask : Who is > Bemarris? And to be honest, I have no clue. I don't think I have ever > encountered that name before. Not that it matters much, but it sparked my > curiousity a little. Does any of you know who he/she/it is, and where > he/she/it is mentioned? Try page 39 of the same book. It is a very short entry, but that is all there is -- even the module that is referenced does not say much about him. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 17:59:09 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Assimilation In a message dated 1998-11-28 16:13:58 Eastern Standard Time, galwylin@airnet.net writes: > But if the Immortals did 'save' the > pre-modernized NR, how would that affect the Known World? All the other > civilizations saved in the Hollow World have been retroactively saved. > This would be a first modern movement, right? I'm wondering what the > ramifications would be if such a thing happen. Except for Alphatia, of course -- but that catastrophic sinking of an entire continent helped explain the disappearance of so many people. Maybe some Immortal could sink the island that Ostland occupies? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 00:16:35 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - HW... This §$%&/() TSR! Although the Blood Brethren have some big mistakes the information about the sun was correct. The "Sphere of Energy" is not a place but a group of immortals. As those immortals are sympathetic to the element fire, Ixion has opened a gate to the elemental plane of fire to create a small sun for the Hollow World. BTW, you are on the right list as you're playing a Mystaran campaign. Don't forget, the Hollow World IS the hollow Mystara. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 21:57:48 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - HW... > On a side note, it was mentioned by Mr. J. Khan that Ixion might > not ever remember being a mortal. Good call. I read the DM sourcebook > and it stated that he may not have even been a mortal because of the > length of time he has spent as an immortal. One mystery remains. The true origin of Ixion should be up to the individual GM. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 23:47:08 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thanks! > I always made the effort, at least, to treat everyone (even my girlfriend) > the same as players. I also followed a quorum rule. In most group I ran, > we had 3-4 players, so my standing rule was, if more than one player > (out of three), or two out of four, could not make it, I wouldn't run the > session. If one person couldn't make it in larger groups, I made sure > that the players who were there did things that were not "quest essential" > - ie: they'd spend the evening doing some roleplaying and interacting, or > maybe having a random encounter of two if they were in town. Then the > next time the missing player showed up, I spent some time alone with that > person, if they wanted to have their character do something during the > time the other PCs were playing. I found this worked out okay. We decide this matter for each case: When we have the feeling that too much cannot come we drop it. (Of course the actual GM MUST come.) The PCs of the absent players are running along, more or less as NPCs. It's not as good as when the players would be there, but it works. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 23:49:50 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gaming Etiquette. > WORD!! I know a few women who have turned out to be better players than > men. Sex, gender, race, and age (sometimes) are NOT the basis of what a > good role-player is. > > Shelz I've heard that legends too, but I've never experienced it myself. All women I had the unluck to watch playing RPG, were simply terrible. :-( Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 23:54:55 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Assimilation > But Mystara does have a built in solution to this problem -- remember that > museum called the Hollow World? As the Northern Reaches modernize, > the Immortals who favor the old ways could save their more conservative > followers (and hasten the modernization process while they are at it...) > by removing them to the Hollow World as a second, slightly more modern > Viking civilization. > > After all, if the Hollow World can hold both the Traldar and the Milenians, > it should be able to hold both the Antalians and the Ostlanders.... But the Hollow World is exactly that - a museum. Additionally it is a very remote one, AND some cultures cannot function the same way as before. Look at Blacklore, Oltecs or Alphatians. When transporting Ostlanders into the HW, we had to find a place with access to the ocean and a weaker culture which can be ravaged and plundered. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 23:56:15 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengarian Immortals (was Ixion) > > BTW, nothing is known about Cretia, and Ixion and Terra are ancient > > immortals who do not remember being mortals once. Can it be true that they > > were spirits indeed? > > Ixion, the Spirit of the Sun, and Terry, the Spirit of the Earth? > > Ixion's origin is indeed unknown, but Terra seems to have begun mortal life as > a being from the Elemental Plane of Earth. This COULD meet the definition of "Spirit of Earth"! Or what's your opinions? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 00:04:52 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gaming Etiquette? > I am not > sure about how it is in the rest of the world, of course, but in Denmark > the average gamer is male, around 14 to 17 years old, and with hormones > streaming around him in a cloud. This is not to ridicule younger players or > anything, but many boys around that age tend to act "sheepish" around > girls. I know I did at times, and I have seen it happen a lot around at games. > Several older players also has a problem with girls in gaming groups, as > far as I have seen. Either they think it is "inappropriate", because girls > often want to do foolish things, like talking to wandering encounters > instead of enjoying the xp :) But some also think they need to show off to > the girls, and try to impress them. Hm, the "typical German gamer" is around 30, has finished his studies at a university with or without success and is of course male. O.k., my negative experiences with female gamers were until we were in the mid-twenties. Since then we have not played with women. Maybe we should search some now. Unfortunately most of them would be now mothers with too little time. Probably the whole matter is an unsolvable problem... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 23:58:39 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gaming Etiquette? > Without putting too fine a point on it... Jamuga, I was a bit sorry to > hear your remarks as I would like love to have Jennifer or Strawberry Jamm > in one > of my campaigns. I would like that too, but the difficulties are to big (wrong language, wrong continent). Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 03:18:20 +0100 From: "Hecate" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - information! Try to visit the mystara web ring on the http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html Hecate - -----Original Message----- From: Nelson Filipe Mota Marques Carreira To: mystara-l@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Date: samedi 28 novembre 1998 14:17 Subject: [MYSTARA] - information! >Hi folks > > I'm new here, and I'm going to start playing D&D, but I know nothing about >Mystara, so if you could help me by sending as many information you can to >me or tell me the addresses of sites about Mystara setting I would be very >grateful! > > Thanx! > > Nelson >>Gold_Wyrm< > >G.A.B. Home Page: http://frontpage.lightspeed.net/wolfman/gab.htm >G.A.B. Consolidated Bad Trader List: >http://www.thesocket.com/~wolfman/bad.htm >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 17:17:56 -0800 From: chris_d_p@juno.com (Christopher D Pasarilla) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Assimilation >This is an interesting idea. I've been wanting to update the Northern >Reaches to a more modern timeframe. But if the Immortals did 'save' >the >pre-modernized NR, how would that affect the Known World? All the >other >civilizations saved in the Hollow World have been retroactively saved. > >This would be a first modern movement, right? Actually, well, the Blacklore Elves are pretty modern to me. Their automatons can be compared to our modern day-types, although theirs are a bit more advanced. The civilization has street lights and electricity. I think they lean more towards the future, but they do have some modern-day things. I think this is what you're talking about. Shelz "We paid for this camping retreat, so we'll do whatever the hell we want!" - Doug Roselli "COUNSELOR! I WANT TO SPEAK TO THE COUNSELOR! WHERE'S THE COUNSELOR?" - Drunk old man shouting at 1 in the morning at campground ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 20:42:40 -0800 From: chris_d_p@juno.com (Christopher D Pasarilla) Subject: [MYSTARA] - HW characters outside of the HW... I hope someone can answer this: I just took my friend's PC's out of the HW (in the adventure Nightwale) and took them to Sigil in PS. Now, how would these characters act outside of the HW? I realize that anyone would be a little edgy in a place outside of their native land, but the HW characters have spent their entire lives in HW. They're ancient races of beings that haven't been on the outside of HW for centuries. Would they be nervous beyond belief, or would they be like any other person and just be curious at what is out there? Shelz "We paid for this camping retreat, so we'll do whatever the hell we want!" - Doug Roselli "COUNSELOR! I WANT TO SPEAK TO THE COUNSELOR! WHERE'S THE COUNSELOR?" - Drunk old man shouting at 1 in the morning at campground ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 03:21:52 +0100 From: "Hecate" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis Map Hi All, I'm looking for a detail map on Thyatis Empire... If somebody have a scanned version of that, or know a URL where I can find that, please, let me know. Thanks. Hecate *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 09:40:48 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Assimilation In a message dated 1998-11-28 18:23:47 Eastern Standard Time, JamugaKhan@gmx.net writes: > When transporting Ostlanders into the HW, we had to find a place with > access to the ocean and a weaker culture which can be ravaged and > plundered. Well, the Merry Pirates seem to have that. We could either put the Ostlanders nearby (to give the Pirates some competition) or put them on a more remote coast (where some other cultures may have gotten too complacent). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 09:40:51 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - HW characters outside of the HW... In a message dated 1998-11-29 00:01:57 Eastern Standard Time, chris_d_p@juno.com writes: > I hope someone can answer this: I just took my friend's PC's out of the > HW (in the adventure Nightwale) and took them to Sigil in PS. Now, how > would these characters act outside of the HW? I realize that anyone > would be a little edgy in a place outside of their native land, but the > HW characters have spent their entire lives in HW. They're ancient races > of beings that haven't been on the outside of HW for centuries. Would > they be nervous beyond belief, or would they be like any other person and > just be curious at what is out there? The biggest question I would see would be how to handle the "cultural bias" and resulting compensations granted by the Spell of Preservation, which would no longer be in effect once these characters left the Hollow World -- although it should take the characters a while to figure that out. I guess if they start going against their cultural bias, they should lose their compansating advantages immediately -- although without the experience loss that would result if they did that while still in the Hollow World. However, there is no particular reason that they should be freaked out by other cultures. After all, they are used to having other strange cultures living nearby without influencing them or being influenced by them. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 10:25:14 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - RE: gaming etiquette. It's kind of ironic, given the current discussion as to the rarity of women in gaming. In my campaigns, at least one player was female (there's no shortage of female gamers in Ottawa, at any rate - at our main convention, I'd say between 30-45% of the attendees are female), and in my latest Mystara campaign (hope to restart it in December), the players (4) were split 50-50 along gender. We never had any problems with uneasiness or immaturity, though this could have something to do with the age group we were all in (23-28). Of course, the group I play in now is much broader in terms of age distribution (youngest is 15, oldest is 46), and sometimes I think the overall maturity level is still the same. Of course, we'd have to consider what *kinds* of games women tend to play. In my experience, a lot of female gamers tend to concentrate around storyteller games like Vampire: The Masquerade than others. Could be only from my observations, though. Don't know, maybe games need a need marketing strategy? Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #728 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, November 30 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 729 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: RE: [MYSTARA] - Gaming Etiquette? Re: [MYSTARA] - Gaming Etiquette? [MYSTARA] - MOrient needs help Re: [MYSTARA] - Assimilation RE: [MYSTARA] - Gaming Etiquette? Re: [MYSTARA] - RE: gaming etiquette. Re: [MYSTARA] - Gaming Etiquette? [MYSTARA] - Gaming with women [MYSTARA] - # of Undead (brrr ...) Re: [MYSTARA] - Assimilation Re: [MYSTARA] - Assimilation [MYSTARA] - MOrient needs help ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 18:46:47 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Gaming Etiquette? At 08.15 28/11/98 PST, Jennifer Favia wrote: >We're fairly isolated here as far as gamers go, so this statement makes >me wonder, just *how* "rare" are females in role-playing? I mean, there >are only two or three of us here on the list...I guess what I'm asking >is, do these attitudes toward women in rpgs persist because of >unfamiliarity? My experience: except at conventions, the only females role-players that I've seen were in my Star Wars RPG group. Unfortunately we played only a few sessions and those girls were both newbies so I cannot comment on "females and RPGs". This discussion about females and RPGs is one that gets started often on an Italian newsgroup about RPG, unfortunately this list (and the net in general) cannot give a correct picture of the number of women that enjoy role-playing, because both RPGs and computers are typical male hobbies. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 16:51:42 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gaming Etiquette? In a message dated 11/26/98 11:01:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, au998@freenet.carleton.ca writes: << Hiyall, Here's a situation for you to ponder, and tell me if it happens IYC. Whether or not it does, what do you think of it? Would something like this compromise gamer's etiquette? In a campaign I'm currently playing in (while my Mystara campaign is in hiatus), the GM frequently runs private sessions for his girlfriend, who is also a player in the group. We all show up Saturday night, and the GM says something like, "Oh, by the way, since the last time we played, [girlfriend]'s character infiltrated the enemy castle, rescued the prisoners you were looking for, and was made a Knight of the Realm." Would I be alone in thinking that I (and other players in the group) am essentially being relegated to a bit-player role, since none of the rest of us get these "private" roleplaying sessions? Has anyone else played in a group where something like this happened? >> hmm....sounds like a problem my old group had back when we were actively gaming. in our case, we had a couple of group members partaking in seperate adventures where they conveniently obtained powerful enchanted weapons and a level or two. after several heated arguments about it, the rest of the party came up with a solution. while these prodigal pcs were off monty haulling, they were not with the main party. as such, when the party gathered to game the pcs in question were off doing their own sub game. the players that ran these pcs were then forced to assume new low level pcs for the time being. when enough game time had passed, their regular pcs returned to the group. the players really could not argue with that ruling. if they were off for two game weeks then that was two game weeks that they could not have been with the main group. by the time the two timelines were once again compatable the main party had pretty much caught up with them and in some cases surpassed them. hope that helps. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 17:12:17 +0000 From: acrmartins@sol.com.br Subject: [MYSTARA] - MOrient needs help Hi, We are about to make the MOrient project start moving again, but many of the involved people are no longer interested. This way, I am calling all those who would like to participate to contact me, so that we may start moving soon. I'll be leaving the list soon (too many emails for the time I have to read them, people love to answer everything they see and I don't have time to read 40-50 emails per day), so please answer to me personally. My address is bellow. We are looking for people who would like to contribute, as well as people who can keep the homepage updated and people who have time to prepare summaries once in a while. We already have a lot of material we have decided about, but new ideas will certainly be welcome. Andre Martins *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 18:07:28 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Assimilation At 17.17 28/11/98 -0800, Christopher D Pasarilla wrote: > Actually, well, the Blacklore Elves are pretty modern to me. >Their automatons can be compared to our modern day-types, although theirs >are a bit more advanced. The civilization has street lights and >electricity. I think they lean more towards the future, but they do have >some modern-day things. I think this is what you're talking about. Blacklore Elves' technology is a remnant of the Blackmoor Era, when Mystara was a high-tech world, so, though it may look modern, their stuff is centuries old... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 05:54:21 -0800 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Gaming Etiquette? > Jesse, flattery will get you everywhere ;-) > As for Jamuga's comments ... I think the first sentence was typed with > jest in mind, as he did start the rest with "Seriously, ...". His further > comments explained that IN HIS EXPERIENCE he has never > encountered a female > gamer who enhanced the game for a group he played in -- though he did know > of two who had played for many years with others. Seeing as the > problem he > was addressing revolved around the DM and his girlfriend, Jamuga's general > observations that the worst situations occured when the woman was a > girlfriend of one of the men were appropriate. > I think that we should all step back a bit and give the poor guy some > breathing room -- I don't think he meant for anyone to take his "bah..." > statement too seriously, and I'm certain he wasn't tring to offend anyone. > Too many people pounced on the apparently negative statement without > looking at the whole message. > Jenni > -=> strawberryJAMM <=- Hello Jenni, Actually, I was being a bit on the fiesty side the other night. I hope that my comments were not taken as being angry at Jamuga, or jumping all over him. Unfortunately, I've seen this attitude taken many times before, and more often than not the "girl" proved the better of the two role-players. I didn't think that Jamuga was wholly serious, but thought I'd point out my observations. As for flattery, well actually that wasn't my intent. The two of you post very intelligently with a great insight into the game system and the setting in which you play. I respect that in any gamer. Also, Jamuga, Leroy, Geoff, JDaly are others that I would love to get into one of my campaigns. Unfortunately, as Jamuga later comments- distance is a very major problem. Later. Jesse. vanquer@email.msn.com http://www.gryffon.com/leta for all your role-playing needs ICQ. 8004143 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 15:18:39 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - RE: gaming etiquette. On Sun, 29 Nov 1998, Geoff Gander wrote: > Of course, we'd have to consider what *kinds* of games women tend to play. > In my experience, a lot of female gamers tend to concentrate around > storyteller games like Vampire: The Masquerade than others. Could be only > from my observations, though. Don't know, maybe games need a need > marketing strategy? I think this is important. I dont know that many female gamers. (They moved south, to Denmark, it seems ;), but those I do know share a dislike for Fantasy games. Vampire and other WW games are popular as is Amber for some reason, and obviously Cthulhu, everyone likes Cthulhu. Why females seem to want to stay away from Fantasy games is still bit of a mystery to me. But I think the idea that Fantasy is dungeon bashing and slaying Dragons might have something to do with it.. Hĺvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 15:53:33 +0100 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gaming Etiquette? Geoff Gander posed us this moral question: <> Sorry Geoff if I smile a bit about this situation, but I think you're right in your doubts. The thing is really funny, cause I don't really know what's good in playing one to one sessions: I admit I like gaming with multiple players to see how they all react to each others' action and because this is essentially what a RPG is all about: getting to know each other's character in a big cradle of adventures, comic situations and epic combats. Anyway, I experienced a similar situation in my first gaming sessions, when one of my players had to go home at midnite while I Dmed the others until 1.30-2.00 am. Every time, or at least 2/3 of the times, he missed the treasure they found in the enemy stronghold and the subsequent division of the stuff. And each time he returned, the others had gotten the best items and he got the ones nobody wanted.. Did I have to stop playing when he quitted IYO? I thought not, cause I went with the majority's needs, but I admit this proved a bit annoying for the poor player. Anyway, things have changed now, and he's the PC who's got the highest XPs even though he has got only one magical item (a longsword +2, +4 vs undead, and he's level 27th!). A veritable proof that he's quite capable at gaming despite the hard times at the beginning ;) Try talk the situation out with the other players, Geoff, and if they all share your opinion, then try all talk with the DM and try to change the situation.. DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 15:53:58 +0100 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Gaming with women "Jamuga Khan" enlightened us with these words: <> ROFTL ;) <> Well man, I DM a game with 4 girls as players, and three of them are sisters with one of them being one of the male player's girlfriend. But these are some of the most hilarious and rewarding games I've ever played from the roleplaying point of view. Sure, sometimes they get really frustrating by backbiting at each other (especially the sisters, but hey, this is a common thing among siblings), and other times the game goes into a complete mayhem when all their actions overlap and become confusing (but the other players can also be blamed for this - they're 8!), but all in all I think that playing with different genders is a most enlightening experience and adds more realism to the game. So, yes, I'm in favour of mixed genders schools, Prime Minister.. :=) DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 06:59:04 PST From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: [MYSTARA] - # of Undead (brrr ...) Hi all ... This mail is aimed to every body men, women & other ... I'm planning an adventure for my beloved players (if they survive up to it) and they'll face a strong cleric. He might use undead to protect his lair and to attack the poor city of Luln (but that's not our problem). He's a 8th level cleric and so has access to the spell Animate dead. (In both D&D and AD&D). I'm wondering how many undead he can controll ? I know he can create 8 level of undead per spell but as they're permanently created, the number of undead can be unlimitted (well perhaps limited to the number of corpse he can find, but well, Luln and Halag baronny is full of dead ... thanks to Ludvig van H). I'm sure every body has an opinion, and also that AD&D should have set a rule on it ... But is it the same in D&D ? Well have a good monday (if a monday can be good ...). Friendly Marcus "Omnia vulnerat, Ultima necat ..." [the sphynx] Marc-Antoine GUIDAULT ŕ mag@mel.teamlog.fr ou chasnans@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/7837 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 23:00:34 +0200 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Assimilation >Well, the Merry Pirates seem to have that. We could either put the Ostlanders >nearby (to give the Pirates some competition) or put them on a more remote >coast (where some other cultures may have gotten too complacent). People seem to forget that Ostlanders already *are* preserved among the Merry Pirates. Whole villagers of Ostlanders were transferred by Korotiku to HW in 500 AC. So there's no need for anyone to worry about that - the Immortals took care of this 500 years ago :) ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Blue Star aka Azure Star Dragon solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 10:50:38 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Assimilation On Sun, 29 Nov 1998, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > Blacklore Elves' technology is a remnant of the Blackmoor Era, when Mystara > was a high-tech world, so, though it may look modern, their stuff is > centuries old... And still exists in some part in southern Davania! Bwa-ha-ha! - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 18:55:01 +0000 From: acrmartins@sol.com.br Subject: [MYSTARA] - MOrient needs help Hi, again, As Harvard has pointed out (thanks), I didn't include my email address in the end of the message as I promissed to. This way I am trying to do it now. André Martins acrmartins@sol.com.br *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #729 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, December 2 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 730 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: RE: [MYSTARA] - Thanks! RE: [MYSTARA] - RE: gaming etiquette. RE: [MYSTARA] - Dragons... Re: [MYSTARA] - Assimilation [MYSTARA] - Elf-cleric Xps (for ODND) Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf-cleric Xps (for ODND) [MYSTARA] - Question about ODND Re: [MYSTARA] - # of Undead (brrr ...) [MYSTARA] - De Belcadiz, part 1 Re: [MYSTARA] - Gaming Etiquette? Re: [MYSTARA] - # of Undead (brrr ...) Re: [MYSTARA] - Assimilation Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf-cleric Xps (for ODND) [MYSTARA] - Need Help! [MYSTARA] - Orcs of Thar Re: [MYSTARA] - Orcs of Thar [MYSTARA] - ethymology of Thyatian months ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:02:55 +0100 From: Kristian Kramer Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Thanks! > I always made the effort, at least, to treat everyone (even my girlfriend) > the same as players. I also followed a quorum rule. In most group I ran, > we had 3-4 players, so my standing rule was, if more than one player > (out of three), or two out of four, could not make it, I wouldn't run the > session. If one person couldn't make it in larger groups, I made sure > that the players who were there did things that were not "quest essential" > - ie: they'd spend the evening doing some roleplaying and interacting, or > maybe having a random encounter of two if they were in town. Then the > next time the missing player showed up, I spent some time alone with that > person, if they wanted to have their character do something during the > time the other PCs were playing. I found this worked out okay. That's the best solution, most of the time we only play with one GM and two players. If one of the players cannot come, we do not play at all, sad but true. But we can play other games (Blood Bowl or something like that). The other group I 'GM', is a bit larger and it doesn't matter if one of the players doesn't show up. The GM MUST of course be there :-) After each session, one of the players makes a summary and makes sure all participants get one before the next session. That way everybody knows what happened. If one of the players missed a session, the GM tells in short what happened at the start of the next session so no one misses a thing. And we haven't had any complaints yet (-: > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:11:18 +0100 From: Kristian Kramer Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - RE: gaming etiquette. > -----Original Message----- > From: Hĺvard Rřnne Faanes [SMTP:hoc@nvg.ntnu.no] > Sent: Monday, November 30, 1998 3:19 PM > To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - RE: gaming etiquette. > > On Sun, 29 Nov 1998, Geoff Gander wrote: > > > Of course, we'd have to consider what *kinds* of games women tend to > play. > > In my experience, a lot of female gamers tend to concentrate around > > storyteller games like Vampire: The Masquerade than others. Could be > only > > from my observations, though. Don't know, maybe games need a need > > marketing strategy? [Kristian Kramer] Most women like a good story and don't like the dungeon crawling stuff, that much is true, but it is not ALWAYS true. A good marketing strategy could help, some people have a wrong image of fantasy RPGs. And that's a pity. > > I think this is important. I dont know that many female gamers. (They > moved south, to Denmark, it seems ;), but those I do know share a dislike > for Fantasy games. Vampire and other WW games are popular as is Amber for > some reason, and obviously Cthulhu, everyone likes Cthulhu. [Kristian Kramer] I think Hĺvard is right in saying there are not many female players (well in Holland anyway). But if you keep looking you'll find 'em :-). In one of my groups we have two female and two male players. > > Why females seem to want to stay away from Fantasy games is still bit of a > mystery to me. But I think the idea that Fantasy is dungeon bashing and > slaying Dragons might have something to do with it.. [Kristian Kramer] Yup, that's my experience too. But it's not always the case. One of my (female) players was very with 'her' dwarven fighter (also female). And no it was not a complete hack 'n slash game, but we did encounter a monster or two (well, maybe more :). And there are more examples of women who like to play fantasy (and have a dislike of Vampire). > > Hĺvard > > *** > > Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) > http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc > > "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr > Garrison, South Park. > > ************************************************************************** > * > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the > line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:49:10 +0100 From: Kristian Kramer Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Dragons... I think James is right for a change :-) No just kidding, I think it's a good solution. A dragon is a magical 'beast', so it should be able to defy the forces of nature (even if it's only for a round or so). One hovering attack per three rounds should do the trick; it should give the dragon time to launch his hovering attack, continue his flight and turn around for the next attack. It's more like a move a bird makes before landing, it 'brakes' with his wings to slow down. So a dragon making a dive from high in the air will have difficulty hovering because of his high speed. Hmmm, this gets tougher as I type... :-) > -----Original Message----- > From: James Ruhland [SMTP:jruhlconob@sprynet.com] > Sent: Friday, November 27, 1998 10:26 PM > To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons... > > > > > > When fighting a dragon, I think it can hover. That is, if it's going to > > make a quick attack, such as using its breath weapon or clawing. If it > > can cast spells (like a gold dragon), then it will need to stay still on > > the ground. For a character to fight it, he/she is obviously going to > > need some kind of long-range weapon or be able to fly. > > > I'd say that if you want it to be able to do that in your campaign, then > by > all means go for it (the cover of the 1st Dragonlance module backs you up > on this, IIRC; it shows a black dragon "hovering" and blowing it's breath > weapon at the fools . . .er, adventureres. . .below). > "scientifically" Dragons "can't fly at all" anyhow (too much body > mass or > something). It's a fantasy monster, so go for it. > However, I'd probably limit it to what you describe: the Dragon can > make > "swooping"/"hovering" attacks, but it can't just "levitate" there all day > like a Helicopter hovering. Probably one attack such as you describe (or > one round of attacks), and then it either has to fly off (and perhaps > circle around and come back to the "prey"), or land. > This limitation will give PCs (and other folks) who may lack access > to > flight-related spells or gear a fighting chance. > Btw, welcome to the list. We don't bite (we claw/claw/bite instead > 8-)~. > ************************************************************************** > * > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the > line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 05:58:29 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Assimilation In a message dated 1998-11-30 10:45:34 Eastern Standard Time, solmyr@kolumbus.fi writes: > People seem to forget that Ostlanders already *are* preserved among the > Merry Pirates. Whole villagers of Ostlanders were transferred by Korotiku to > HW in 500 AC. So there's no need for anyone to worry about that - the > Immortals took care of this 500 years ago :) But they were changed when they were moved to the Hollow World, weren't they? Are the "Merry Pirates" a homogenized culture that absorbed elements of several different cultures, or are each of the parent cultures preserved within the areas controlled by them? So that raises the question -- are there any real "old fashioned Vikings" among the Merry Pirates, or not? Personally, I would picture the Ostlanders as being much more grim and vicious than the Merry Pirates and so are not truly represented among them, even though the Merry Pirates include people of Ostlander ancestry. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 16:48:56 +0100 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Elf-cleric Xps (for ODND) Hi all! I've got this little problem here: in my last campaign one of the players has got an elf-cleric of Diulanna (well, the story and the personality allows her to be one, don't worry: she's a radical among the elves and has been cast off Canolbarth for her thoughts -we play in AC 980). Now, normally I would have used the common elf-treekeeper progression table with an elf cleric of a nature or elven Immortal (Ordana, Ilsundal, Mealiden, Eiryindul, Zirchev, Terra etc..) giving her the common clerical spells available to elves (see GAZ5), but in this case Diulanna has nothing to do with elves. So I ruled she got the normal cleric progression table for her spells (that's to say zero at 1st level, 1 at 2nd etc... up to 20th level Elf-Cleric). Now my problem is: what about Xps? Does she have to earn the common Xps for Clerics or the ones associated to Elves (much as Elf-Mages and Elf-Treekeepers do)? What's your opinion? Also, I know elf-clerics don't gain multiple attacks and fighters' options (these are reserved to Elf-lords): should I rule the same here, considering the nature of Diulanna? PS: I may use the demi-human progression table that reaches 36th level, but I haven't got RC, so... is this table a balanced one or merely expands the normal demi-humans' Xps going upward to reach 36th level instead of 20th? a puzzled DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:12:56 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf-cleric Xps (for ODND) > Now my problem is: what about Xps? Does she have to earn the common Xps for > Clerics or the ones associated to Elves (much as Elf-Mages and > Elf-Treekeepers do)? What's your opinion? > Also, I know elf-clerics don't gain multiple attacks and fighters' options > (these are reserved to Elf-lords): should I rule the same here, considering > the nature of Diulanna? > Sounds like you've created a lot of problems for yourself. My own opinion would be that you should use the advancement table that is least benificial to the PC, or the one that most closely aproximates the abilities that the character is recieving (I.E. don't go using that Thief chart if the character is recieving Elf-class abilities). If the character recieves multiple attacks et al, then you should bump upwards the amount of exps. required for each level (perhaps come up with a chart of your own. After all, if you're going into uncharted territory, there is no sense relying on the same old roadmaps. They no longer apply). General rule of thumb also is that progression charts for "new" classes are suckier than for the standard ones (no one said being a pioneer was easy; you're learning everything from scratch, without a guide. So it's tougher). Perhaps the coolest thing to do would be to come up with an entirely new character class to reflect the status & abilities of this particular individual. Then you can post it here 8-). That'd take some time, but it will probably be worth it in the long run. Then you can run it all (abilities, level progression, etc.) past *all* your players, in advance, which IMO would be the way to go. Why? Well, no one wants to feel that they're geting a raw deal while someone else is running a Superman character. And conversely no one will want to invest a lot of time into a character that develops in ways that are unbalanced, and thus has to be artificially retired early. > PS: I may use the demi-human progression table that reaches 36th level, but > I haven't got RC, so... is this table a balanced one or merely expands the > normal demi-humans' Xps going upward to reach 36th level instead of 20th? > > a puzzled DM > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 14:39:11 -0700 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Question about ODND [this message was sent from someone not subbed to the list. Mail can only be sent from addresses subscribed to the list, otherwise it bounces to me. The Admin] > I've been out of the ODND picture for about 10 years now, and I'm trying to get > back into it b/c I'm running a PBEM adventure using the basic rules. > I'm sure these questions are stupid, but please bear with me. > > Is the ODND line still being produced by TSR? > > Are there any other classes available besides the Mage, Fighter, Thief, Cleric, > Elf and Dwarf? > > How did MYSTARA evolve from a ODND world to a ADND world? > > Thanks for your patience. > > > -- > Scott Shelton > > http://www.linkserv.net/linkware > IRC : DukeLeto *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 14:40:31 -0700 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - # of Undead (brrr ...) [more mail from a non-subbed address The Admin] > "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" wrote: > > << I'm planning an adventure for my beloved players (if they survive up > to it) and they'll face a strong cleric. He might use undead to protect > his lair and to attack the poor city of Luln (but that's not our > problem). He's a 8th level cleric and so has access to the spell Animate > dead. (In both D&D and AD&D). I'm wondering how many undead he can > control?>> > > uhh... creepy... Sounds like Night of the Walking Dead... ;) > > << I know he can create 8 level of undead per spell but as they're > permanently created, the number of undead can be unlimitted (well > perhaps limited to the number of corpse he can find, but well, Luln and > Halag baronny is full of dead ... thanks to Ludvig van H). > I'm sure every body has an opinion, and also that AD&D should have set > a rule on it ... But is it the same in D&D ?>> > > OKay, you're right in your first assumption: he can animate all the dead > bodies he want as long as he's got dead bodies. But remember that he also > has a time limit: the N° o Animate Dead spell he can cast each day is not > unlimited (depends on his level), so it really depends on how many days he > had to prepare the army. > > If you really wanna give him a limitation, the simply say he can directly > control only a # of HD of undead as if he was an Undead Liege of the same HD > as his level. So, in your example he's 8th level, then he should be treated > as an eight HD undead creature (see Lieges and Pawns control table in the > Master Set), maybe a vampire... > > Hope this helps... > > DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 14:42:12 -0700 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - De Belcadiz, part 1 [yet more mail from an non-subscribed address] > De Belcadiz > > > First Years in Highlands > > Belcadiz-elves arrived to the hills at the foot of Colossus Mounts in the middle of the 6th century. Noone knows where they came from and they haven't told it to anyone. Their leader in those times was an cultivated elder elf, Don Miguel de Belcadiz. He was as diminutive as all male are amongst Belcadiz-elves, but he had an authorative aura around him. He had a steelgray goatee and drooping moustaches. His fiery temper had been soften with the age. > > Elves settled in the area around modern New Alvar. From the beginning they had hostile relations towards denizens of Broken Lands and there was much fighting. > Don Miguel was not happy with this situation and decided that they should move to the north to get more distance from humanoids. This was fateful decision, because at the shores of Vesubia-river the elves meet the Flaems. The clash was immediate, Flaems had been fighting with all their neighbours after caming to Highlands and they consider the elves only as a new threath. Elves had to retreat back to woods around the footholds of mountains. > > The raiding went on for couple of years. Then in AC 565 Don Miguel had it enough. He contacted the leaders of southern Flaem holdings and proposed a meeting. That was arranged at the meetings of Red River and Vesubia. Don Miguel arrived with his retinue only to realise that the Flaems had set up a trap. The elves were seized and ceremoniously sacrifized with the holy fire of the Flaems. > > > DON MANUEL DE BELCADIZ > > The elves were of course furious of these betrayal. These is something that they haven't still forgotten and very much a reason for bad relations between them and Flaems. Next leader of the elves was Don Miguel's eldest son Don Manuel, an middle-aged elves, with great military talent but very rash temper. It is a merit for his military genius that the less numerous elves could keep their positions against the magical might of the Flaems in the 7th century. There was not two peaceful years in row during the whole century. But anyhow you must also acknowledge that the reason that there was no peace was Don Manuel's temper. At first he executed all messengers from the Flaems and when his councilors at last got him at the negotiation table he couldn't stand any demands from the Flaems. > > At the beginning of the 8th century both sides are finally tired of fighting. In AC 702 they make a truce and southern Flaemish lords promise the lands between Vesubia and Colossus Mounts to the elves. Don Manuel is relieved but uneasy, he had nothing to do when there is a peace. After couple of months he decide that he can't stand it anymore. He began to build castle Alhambra at the mountains. This splendid castle-palace is finished in 711. > > In AC 710 happened something that change everything: Erewan-elves came to Highlands from Alfheim. Their leader Charan Erewan contacted immediately Don Manuel and acknowledge his authority and asked a permission to settle amongst the darker elves. The alliance between two elven clan was seal in AC 712 when Don Manuel's eldest son Don Fernando married Charan Erewan's sister Charlana. Two young elves had fell in love immediately after their first meeting two years earlier, but it had taken some time to convince the leaders of the desirability of this marriage. At the same year Don Manuel and Charan Erewan also decided that the area was too crowded for both elven groups. Don Manuel proposed that the Erewan elves would move to the woods between Vesubia and Red River were there was living only a few Flaemish woodcutters. Unfortunately Don Manuel didn't even thought about asking the Flaems what was their opinion. > > Immediately after the Erewan elves had moved there, the Flaemish lords declared that the elves had broken the truce and began raiding again. Brunt of the raids were targeted towards the Belcadiz elves and in AC 717 Don Manuel fell defending newly established city of New Alvar. > > > Harri Maki *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 00:15:53 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gaming Etiquette? > As for Jamuga's comments ... I think the first sentence was typed with > jest in mind, as he did start the rest with "Seriously, ...". His further > comments explained that IN HIS EXPERIENCE he has never encountered a female > gamer who enhanced the game for a group he played in -- though he did know > of two who had played for many years with others. Seeing as the problem he > was addressing revolved around the DM and his girlfriend, Jamuga's general > observations that the worst situations occured when the woman was a > girlfriend of one of the men were appropriate. > > I think that we should all step back a bit and give the poor guy some > breathing room -- I don't think he meant for anyone to take his "bah..." > statement too seriously, and I'm certain he wasn't tring to offend anyone. > Too many people pounced on the apparently negative statement without > looking at the whole message. Have I been flamed without even noticing it? Wow, what an experience! So, thank you, Jenni, for clarifying the matter. I can assure you that I'm not a woman-eating monster from the steppes... And some clear words: I really wished to play with a woman but it's so damned difficult to find one. One of my colleagues is one of those rare female gamers, but she is too occupied with DSA and life roleplaying to be a candidate. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 23:10:37 +0100 From: Cobaye Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - # of Undead (brrr ...) salut, marcus. pour ce qui est de la creation de morts vivants, pas de problemes. mais pour les controler, il doit lancer le sort de controle des morts vivants. Sinon, ceux qu'il aura crees erreront sans but specifique si ce n'est, s attaquer (et encore j'ai des doutes sur le "systematique" de la chose) a tout etre vivant rencontre. Seul un mort vivant intelligent a l aptitude naturelle de controler d autres morts vivants non intelligents, et ce sans avoir a lancer de sorts. fred. PS: demande a jenn de te parler de ten'ar'qillon. Ca pourrai bien t'interesser. GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine a écrit: > Hi all ... > > This mail is aimed to every body men, women & other ... > > I'm planning an adventure for my beloved players (if they survive up > to it) and they'll face a strong cleric. He might use undead to protect > his lair and to attack the poor city of Luln (but that's not our > problem). He's a 8th level cleric and so has access to the spell Animate > dead. (In both D&D and AD&D). I'm wondering how many undead he can > controll ? > I know he can create 8 level of undead per spell but as they're > permanently created, the number of undead can be unlimitted (well > perhaps limited to the number of corpse he can find, but well, Luln and > Halag baronny is full of dead ... thanks to Ludvig van H). > I'm sure every body has an opinion, and also that AD&D should have set > a rule on it ... But is it the same in D&D ? > > Well have a good monday (if a monday can be good ...). > > Friendly > Marcus > > "Omnia vulnerat, Ultima necat ..." [the sphynx] > > Marc-Antoine GUIDAULT > > ŕ mag@mel.teamlog.fr > ou chasnans@hotmail.com > http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/7837 > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 20:28:12 +0200 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Assimilation >So that raises the question -- are there any real "old fashioned Vikings" >among the Merry Pirates, or not? Personally, I would picture the >Ostlanders as being much more grim and vicious than the Merry Pirates >and so are not truly represented among them, even though the Merry >Pirates include people of Ostlander ancestry. Well, if whole *villages* were transported, then I'd say the Ostlanders were preserved fairly well. I mean, not every one of those villagers is "merry"; many would remain true to their traditions. ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Blue Star aka Azure Star Dragon solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 19:49:52 EST From: Magesmiley@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf-cleric Xps (for ODND) In a message dated 12/1/98 8:13:11 AM Pacific Standard Time, mdalmonte@provincia.ra.it writes: << Hi all! I've got this little problem here: in my last campaign one of the players has got an elf-cleric of Diulanna (well, the story and the personality allows her to be one, don't worry: she's a radical among the elves and has been cast off Canolbarth for her thoughts -we play in AC 980). Now, normally I would have used the common elf-treekeeper progression table with an elf cleric of a nature or elven Immortal (Ordana, Ilsundal, Mealiden, Eiryindul, Zirchev, Terra etc..) giving her the common clerical spells available to elves (see GAZ5), but in this case Diulanna has nothing to do with elves. So I ruled she got the normal cleric progression table for her spells (that's to say zero at 1st level, 1 at 2nd etc... up to 20th level Elf-Cleric). Now my problem is: what about Xps? Does she have to earn the common Xps for Clerics or the ones associated to Elves (much as Elf-Mages and Elf-Treekeepers do)? What's your opinion? Also, I know elf-clerics don't gain multiple attacks and fighters' options (these are reserved to Elf-lords): should I rule the same here, considering the nature of Diulanna? PS: I may use the demi-human progression table that reaches 36th level, but I haven't got RC, so... is this table a balanced one or merely expands the normal demi-humans' Xps going upward to reach 36th level instead of 20th? a puzzled DM >> Back in one of the Princess Ark articles (February 1992 Dragon) there was a group of elven class variants and elven clerics was one of them. Essentially it says that they retain their racial abilities (infravision, languages, detection and immunity to ghoul paralysis). They don't get fighter combat options, special defenses, or wizardly spell-casting. They use the elf xp table, but cast clerical (or druid) spells, fight, and save as a cleric of the same level. They have to obey cleric restrictions but otherwise are treated as elves with the regular restrictions. - -Mage *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 19:44:00 -0800 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: [MYSTARA] - Need Help! Hey- I don't know if any of you guys can help me or not, but here's a question: Do you recall the TSR toy line by LJN toys back during the 80s? Specifically, I'm curious about two figures- the Battle-Matic figure called Mandoom, and one named Pulvereye. I am curious as to exactly what Mandoom is supposed to be. I know that most of the toys named what they were (such as Mettaflame, the Fire Giant). My guess is he was supposed to be some kind of Cloud Giant or something, but I'm not sure. Also, I've seen a listing for a figure called Pulvereye in Toyfare magazine, but other than the name, I know nothing about it. Anyone? Thanks in advance, Andrew *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 17:57:33 +1300 From: Richard Vowles Subject: [MYSTARA] - Orcs of Thar Has anyone spotted any of the online shops with the Gazatter "The Orcs of Thar"? Either is is very popular or it was very unpopular... - -- Richard Vowles, Senior Systems Engineer, Inprise New Zealand, MAIL: rvowles@inprise.com, rvowles@sew.co.nz HTTP: The Esperanto Group, www.esperanto.org.nz [my messages contain my own opinions, not those of my employer] *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 22:18:51 PST From: "Ariel Guerra" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Orcs of Thar >Has anyone spotted any of the online shops with the Gazatter "The Orcs >of Thar"? Either is is very popular or it was very unpopular... Yes, it was very hard to find. But I finally found a copy at Spirit Games in the UK. I believe that their address is: http://www.spiritgames.co.uk Jenn (on Ariel's mail;-) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 11:07:13 CET From: "Herve Musseau" Subject: [MYSTARA] - ethymology of Thyatian months I always wondered what the "ethymology" of the Thyatian names for the months could be. Okay, -mont means month (that's the easy part). But what about the rest? Nuwmont = new month, the first month of the year Vatermont = water month, i.e. rainy month Thaumont = ? Flaurmont = flower month, first month of the spring when the flora blossoms Yarthmont = ? Klarmont = clear month? Felmont = ? Fyrmont = fire month (hot summer) Ambyrmont = amber month, when leaves turn amber Sviftmont = swift month? Eirmont = ? Kaldmont = cold month _____________________________________________________________ Herve Musseau Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/ Net Almanac: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/9037/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #730 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, December 2 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 731 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - HW 1015 almanac supplement: YARTHMONT Re: [MYSTARA] - Assimilation Re: [MYSTARA] - ethymology of Thyatian months Re: [MYSTARA] - # of Undead (brrr ...) Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf-cleric Xps (for ODND) RE: [MYSTARA] - ethymology of Thyatian months Re: [MYSTARA] - Assimilation Re: [MYSTARA] - Assimilation Re: [MYSTARA] - Assimilation [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] dleggend [MYSTARA] - test Re: [MYSTARA] - ethymology of Thyatian months Re: [MYSTARA] - Orcs of Thar Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] dleggend Re: [MYSTARA] - etymology of Thyatian months Re: [MYSTARA] - etymology of Thyatian months ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 02:17:11 PST From: "Joshuan Gallidox Publishing" Subject: [MYSTARA] - HW 1015 almanac supplement: YARTHMONT YARTHMONT 1, AC 1015: A Historic Discovery. Location: Andaire, Jafilia, Alphatia. HW Description: After weeks of research and questioning, Alphatian officials uncover the truth about the Kubitts. The Imperial Archives bear documentation of a disappearance of the mage Korubazunth. Further research divulges documents describing his research projects, the details of which point to the Kubitts. Presented with this information, Empress Eriadna orders that the interred Kubitts be treated well. (See Va. 15, Va. 20; Ya. 15, Fe. 22.) What This Means: Since being brought to Andaire, the three Kubitts have been interrogated with spells to learn of their nature, as well as any possible connection to Zandor. Through this, enough information has been gathered to offer the investigators clues that linked them to the Alphatian mage Korubazunth. Scouring the archives, the investigators uncovered the AY 1220 investigation of the mage's absence. Being Alphatia, it is not uncommon for mages to wander off into seclusion. However, his enemies missed Korubazunth and sent adventurers to investigate his stronghold. This led to an Imperial investigation and documentation of his disappearance and what he was working on. The truth about the Kubitts answers the question of what exactly happened to him. Eriadna and the investigators are highly interested in the Kubitts. The numbers of created races that have become self-sufficient are limited. Those that have succeeded are special and should be appreciated. Plus, Eriadna is horrified that the Kubitts have based their whole opinion about Alphatians upon one mage and an event that occurred over one thousand years ago. YARTHMONT 4, AC 1015: Dogrel Razed. Location: Dogrel, Alphatian Neatharum. HW Description: Once again, the town of Dogrel comes under heavy attack. The attacking Neathar are aided by a mage who uses his spells to aid the Neathar in breaching the defensive palisade. With uncanny expertise, the Neathar systematically wear down the defenders. Eventually the surviving defenders are forced to flee; the few that make it out witness the town being looted and systematically burned. What This Means: Zorok has once again launched an assault. Despite using fewer troops than he had used previously, the attack is successful. This success was mainly due to the advice of Zorok's newest advisor, Zandor. From a distance, Zandor has noted the routines of defenders as well as the town's defenses. With these in mind, he suggests a plan of attack. Though he isn't a military expert, Zandor's plan is good enough to breach the defenses quickly before the defenders could assemble. The key to the attack is to strike while most of the defenders are eating. Where it is needed, Zandor assists the Neathar with the limited inventory of spells at his disposal, his most vital magical assistance coming from casting a Death Spell upon a grouping a defending mages. As the battle ends, the Neathar loot the town and free the Neathar slaves from the mines. Zandor secures several spellbooks from the town's resident mages. These spellbooks contain mostly low level spells, none above 5th level. Zandor's key spell, the Death Spell, is gone. He had memorized it while staying with Dogrel; however, he had to depart before recording it into his spellbook. He is steadily rebuilding his own spellbook, and has also accumulated a sizable number of spell scrolls by tearing pages from spellbooks. Despite his available spells, Zandor is still insane and the quality of his spell usage depends upon his mental clarity. (See Th. 27, Fl. 8; Kl. 2, Kl. 11.) What The PCs Can Do: The razing of Dogrel should be obvious and will draw Imperial attention. Zandor's involvement will soon become apparent; Alphatian PCs can use the event as a clue to his whereabouts. Other Alphatian PCs can investigate the town and uncover the secret enslavement policies of Dogrel. PCs working for Dogrel within the town can act as defenders. Neathar PCs can partake in the attack and will have the opportunity to pursue defenders that escaped. YARTHMONT 10, AC 1015: Papalotl Back to Azca. Location: Quauhnahuac, north of Azca. HW Description: Papalotl, using Atruatzin's Mystic Conveyor, returns from the Clans in the Outer world, to his Azcan home, arriving at Quauhnahuac. The Atruatolco living near the ruined city mistake him for Atruatzin arising from Mictlan, the place of the dead, but they are afraid of meeting their mighty king. They send their best hunters to quietly stalk him until he reclaims his throne. (See Fl. 3, Fl. 12; Kl. 4, Fe. 7.) What This Means: After some time spent in the Outer World, like his sponsor Atruatzin before him, Papalotl returns to Azcan Lands to bring to his people the knowledge he has collected during his travels. He is now confident that the Atruaghin Clans have the situation well in their hands, as he made sure that the Great Migration would not turn against their temporary allies, and the evil Atzanteotl-worshipping Tiger Clan is now about to fall before the joint Atruaghin and Darokinian forces. During his travels, Papalotl has accumulated facts about Azca's true history, and his people's descendants in the outer world. He hopes to convince his people that Atzanteotl is a just great deceiver, who wormed His way into the hearts of the people and turned them against their saviors (Otzitiotl and Kalaktatla) who in fact saved them and created this world for them, never abandoning them. crossreferences for Fl. 3 must be changed from (See Th. 17, Th. 26; Ya. 19, Kl. 2.) to (See Th. 17, Th. 26; Ya. 10, Ya. 19) crossreferences for Fl. 12 must be changed from (See Th. 26, Fl. 3; Ya. 20.) to (See Th. 26, Fl. 3; Ya. 10, Ya. 20.) crossreferences for Ya. 20 must be changed from (See Fl. 3, Fl. 12.) to (Fl. 12., Ya. 10) YARTHMONT 12, AC 1015: A Mysterious Turn of Events. Location: Inun, Nithia. HW Description: Forces loyal to Senkha are surprised by the landings of several foreign vessels along the southern shores of Lake Menkor, not far from the fishing villages of Inun. Those troops dispatched to meet this strange adversary are attacked ferociously, and soon the Senkhites in the region are driven back almost three miles from the coast in one day. Word goes to local commanders, who order positions held while situation is assessed. (See Va. 27, Ya. 3; Ya. 28, Kl. 3.) What This Means: The Senkhites did not expect to be attacked from another direction while consolidating their hold on northern Nithia. That, and the fact that no one has been able to identify the attackers, is beginning to concern some of the military commanders in the region. YARTHMONT 15, AC 1015: An Awkward Meeting. Location: Andaire, Jafilia, Alphatia. HW Description: Empress Eriadna, her daughter Mariella, several archmages, and a few trusted adventurers meet with the Kubitts. Eriadna is very cordial to the Kubitts, even going as far as to Shrink comfortable chairs down to their size. At first, the Kubitts are non-responsive. Eventually, they begin to succumb to the personality of Eriadna and begin conversing. As the conversation continues, the express as many questions about the Alphatians as Eriadna does about them. By the time they end their talks, both sides have learned much about each other. (See Va. 20, Ya. 1; Fe. 22, Am. 10.) What This Means: Eriadna has become more and more intrigued about the Kubitts. From the information already gathered, she sets the meeting in a manner that is most likely to burst the stereotype the Kubitts have of Alphatians. The move is successful and the Kubitts begin to speak freely. Through conversation, the Alphatians learn the basics of Kubitt society and history. The Kubitts even explain why they are spying in Haldemar and Dogrel. The comments they make about Neatharum are noted, especially the town of Dogrel and its slaves and mines. The Kubitts have also learned a great deal, notably that their vision of Alphatia and Alphatians is not unilaterally true. Of the Alphatians that they have spoken with, the one that that disliked was Eriadna's daughter, Mariella. YARTHMONT 17, AC 1015: The Orcs Ride Again. Location: Avair, Icevale Lands. HW Description: The town of Avair is rocked by the war cries of orcish raiders. The orcs ride into the town almost unopposed. Once inside, the elves muster their numbers and the fighting turns to favor them. The remaining orcs are forced into a building where they take the inhabitants hostage. Among the hostages are several infant and adolescent elves. The Icevale warriors are loath to endanger the young elves by mounting an assault. The orcs soon realize this and use the situation to negotiate. (See Th. 17, Th. 23; Ya. 28.) What This Means: Bolstered by their previous raid into Neathar Lands, the Krugel Orcs launch a raid into Icevale Lands. Unfortunately for them, the elves prove to be more capable of defending themselves than the Neathar. The elves focus their attacks against the orcs' mounts, dismounting the riders. The elves then follow up the attack by striking down the sprawled orc. Facing a likely death, the few remaining orcs force their way into a building. There they take the inhabitants hostage and the stand off situation develops. The Icevale are willing to let the remaining orcs go free if they release the hostages. Given the hatred between orcs and elves, the Krugel become very cocky about the matter and begin making extravagant demands. The elves cannot and will not meet these demands. The attack on Avair, the losses, and their attitudes towards the orcs will not allow too much room for compromise. However, there is little that the elves on hand can do. They feign efforts to meet the needs in order to buy the time needed so that more experienced elves can be summoned. What The PCs Can Do: If the PCs are in the area, then chances are good that they will be allowed to intervene. PCs that are not elves may have a more difficult time. Trust is key to any participation in this situation, as the elves are not going to risk the hostages with just anyone. YARTHMONT 28, AC 1015: Menkara Encircled! Location: Menkara, Nithia. HW Description: The mysterious force that landed at Inun a couple of weeks ago has advanced rapidly westwards along the Nithian coastal region. Many more towns and villages have been wrested from Senkha's forces, and now over a thousand strangely-dressed soldiers encircle the city of Menkara. No messengers are sent from these strange invaders, and many Senkhite soldiers within the city reflect on the irony that they are now the besieged. (See Ya. 3, Ya. 12; Kl. 3, Kl. 10.) YARTHMONT 28, AC 1015: Elven Negotiation. Location: Avair, Icevale Lands. HW Description: After several days of a tense standoff, the elves take action. With the orcs demanding food, the elves oblige and use the moment to their advantage. Annointing the food with herbs to incapacitate the orcs, the elves gained an advantage and exploited it. After waiting for the herbs to take affect, the elven heroes infiltrate the building and overwhelm the orcs. (See Th. 23, Ya. 17.) What This Means: The orcs were undone by their own cockiness. Bolstered by the feelings of power, they let their guard down and consumed the food without any precautionary measures, allowing the elven heroes to enter more easily and free the hostages. The elves give no quarter to the orcs. What The PCs Can Do: If the PCs partake in the assault, chances are good that they will succeed. The level of their success depends on how many of the hostages are freed without harm. Losses to adult elves will be more easily forgiven than losing any of the young elves. _________________________________ Joshuan Gallidox Publishing publisher of the Mystaran Almanac ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 02:39:43 PST From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Assimilation >Except for Alphatia, of course -- but that catastrophic sinking of an entire >continent helped explain the disappearance of so many people. Maybe >some Immortal could sink the island that Ostland occupies? Earthquake, Tidal wave, Volcano, Plague etc. Pick your poison. The how is easy for an Immortal. Probably easiest would be the old standard in which the chosen ones set out on thier boats to seek greener pastures. Quick storm and they`re in HW. Create some wreckage to explain that they`re all dead. Those left behind can mourn the others pasing and get on with building a better mousetrap. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 11:39:02 +0100 From: Jacob Boersma Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - ethymology of Thyatian months At 11:07 AM 12/2/98 CET, you wrote: >I always wondered what the "ethymology" of the Thyatian names for the >months could be. > >Okay, -mont means month (that's the easy part). But what about the rest? > >Nuwmont = new month, the first month of the year >Vatermont = water month, i.e. rainy month >Thaumont = ? I don't know about the other ones, but Thaumont is clearly Thaw-month (as in the opposite of freeze), the month when the ice melts. Also, maybe Vatermont is Father-month. I don't know what the reason for this name would be, and your explanation with 'water' seems better. But the names all seem to be derived from German, and water in German is wasser, not vater (which means father). ======================================================================= "...if you see your enemy in the water up to his neck, you will do well to push him under; but if he is only in it up to his knees, you will do well to help him to the shore." - Machiavelli. Jacob Boersma E-mail: jboersma@cs.uu.nl ICQ#: 21142296 Homepage: http://www.students.cs.uu.nl/~jboersma/ ======================================================================= *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 03:02:48 PST From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - # of Undead (brrr ...) >dead. (In both D&D and AD&D). I'm wondering how many undead he can=20 >controll ? IIrc on p200ish of Cyclopaedia there are rules about Undead lieges who can controll twice their own hit dice in lesser undead. BTW why make the necromancer the bad guy? I`ve just finished running an adventure in which the main protagonist was a necromancer who used his powers to aid the local populace. The paladin went nuts because he had animated animal skeletons which were being used as beasts of burden etc. When the outsiders invaded despite the necromancers warnings he killed some with magic then animated them and sent them into battle with their former allies. Hamlet 1,v,166 Paul ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 03:17:07 PST From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf-cleric Xps (for ODND) >PS: I may use the demi-human progression table that reaches 36th level, but >I haven't got RC, so... is this table a balanced one or merely expands the >normal demi-humans' Xps going upward to reach 36th level instead of 20th? > IIrc there were some rules put forward in `VPA` which ewere about elven clerics. They advanced on cleric table and gained all abilities thereof instead of standard elven abilities or something similar. Hamlet 1,v,166 Paul ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 12:18:26 +0100 From: Kristian Kramer Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - ethymology of Thyatian months A few thoughts on the month thing (don't flame me if I'm wrong or writing something stupid! :) Thau = Tau (German) = rope. Ropemonth (because the flax is ready to be used for making rope). Yarth = Yard or garden? Yardmonth or gardenmonth? (BBC2, 9:28 :-) Fel = fel (Dutch, which has some links to German) = fierce. Fiercemonth (also being hot, just like Fyrmont). Eir = Eier (German) = Eggs. So Eirmont means Eggmonth or maybe 'birdmonth'? When birds fly south (or to wherever they go)? But then birds don't lay eggs, do they? Kristian Kramer > -----Original Message----- > From: Herve Musseau [SMTP:herve@hotmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 1998 12:07 PM > To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM > Subject: [MYSTARA] - ethymology of Thyatian months > > I always wondered what the "ethymology" of the Thyatian names for the > months could be. > > Okay, -mont means month (that's the easy part). But what about the rest? > > Nuwmont = new month, the first month of the year > Vatermont = water month, i.e. rainy month > Thaumont = ? > Flaurmont = flower month, first month of the spring when the flora > blossoms > Yarthmont = ? > Klarmont = clear month? > Felmont = ? > Fyrmont = fire month (hot summer) > Ambyrmont = amber month, when leaves turn amber > Sviftmont = swift month? > Eirmont = ? > Kaldmont = cold month > > _____________________________________________________________ > Herve Musseau > Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/ > Net Almanac: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/9037/ > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ************************************************************************** > * > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the > line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 03:28:52 PST From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Assimilation >Well, if whole *villages* were transported, then I'd say the Ostlanders were preserved fairly well. I mean, not every one of those villagers is "merry"; many would remain true to their traditions. > Why? If their traditions are NOT pirate the spell of preservation would not be bound to keep them as it`s the piratical culture that is being preserved. Over the last 500 years there would have been many new ideas gained fromthe other pirates which would alter the traditions. There may be some pure Otlanders left but they will be in a tiny minority compared to those who more closely embace the pirate ideals. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 03:39:50 PST From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Assimilation >People seem to forget that Ostlanders already *are* preserved among the Merry Pirates. Whole villagers of Ostlanders were transferred by Korotiku to HW in 500 AC. So there's no need for anyone to worry about that - the Immortals took care of this 500 years ago :) > Have to disagree with you here old boy! The pirating culture is preserved not the Ostlander culture. Korotiku hasn`t really shown much interest in mainstream Northman cultures just those who would fit in with his pirate experiment in HW. Hamlet 1,v,166 Paul ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:20:45 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Assimilation On Wed, 2 Dec 1998, paul dooley wrote: > >Except for Alphatia, of course -- but that catastrophic sinking of an > entire > >continent helped explain the disappearance of so many people. Maybe > >some Immortal could sink the island that Ostland occupies? > > Earthquake, Tidal wave, Volcano, Plague etc. Pick your poison. The how > is easy for an Immortal. Probably easiest would be the old standard in > which the chosen ones set out on thier boats to seek greener pastures. > Quick storm and they`re in HW. Create some wreckage to explain that > they`re all dead. Those left behind can mourn the others pasing and get > on with building a better mousetrap. Whats the need of destroying the place? There is no reason why the Ostlanders couldnt be modernized instead. IMO, we are starting to get too many cultures who're destroyed by the Immortals. Besides, Scandinavia was really cool in the middle ages too :) Hĺvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 15:07:20 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] dleggend Does anyone know how I can contact this fellow? I was trying to download some stuff from his homepage, but, alas, it didnt work. And sending email to his aol adress didnt work either. :( Hĺvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 15:08:05 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - test *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 16:00:57 +0100 From: Cobaye Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - ethymology of Thyatian months - --------------9B4D177BFF2013EA427EDFC7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Herve Musseau a écrit: > I always wondered what the "ethymology" of the Thyatian names for the > months could be. > > Okay, -mont means month (that's the easy part). But what about the rest? > > Nuwmont = new month, the first month of the year > Vatermont = water month, i.e. rainy month Thaumont = thaw month? > Flaurmont = flower month, first month of the spring when the flora > blossoms Yarthmont = yard's long month or maybe month of the year? > Klarmont = clear month? Felmont = felicity month? > Fyrmont = fire month (hot summer) > Ambyrmont = amber month, when leaves turn amber > Sviftmont = swift month? Eirmont = earth mont? > Kaldmont = cold month > > _____________________________________________________________ > Herve Musseau > Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/ > Net Almanac: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/9037/ > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. - --------------9B4D177BFF2013EA427EDFC7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  

Herve Musseau a écrit:

I always wondered what the "ethymology" of the Thyatian names for the
months could be.

Okay, -mont means month (that's the easy part). But what about the rest?

Nuwmont = new month, the first month of the year
Vatermont = water month, i.e. rainy month

Thaumont = thaw month?
Flaurmont = flower month, first month of the spring when the flora
blossoms
Yarthmont = yard's long month or maybe month of the year?
Klarmont = clear month?
Felmont = felicity month?
Fyrmont = fire month (hot summer)
Ambyrmont = amber month, when leaves turn amber
Sviftmont = swift month?
Eirmont = earth mont?
Kaldmont = cold month

_____________________________________________________________
Herve Musseau <herve@hotmail.com>
Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/
Net Almanac: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/9037/

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
***************************************************************************
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  - --------------9B4D177BFF2013EA427EDFC7-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 16:02:58 +0100 From: Cobaye Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Orcs of Thar I have it. Richard Vowles a écrit: > Has anyone spotted any of the online shops with the Gazatter "The Orcs > of Thar"? Either is is very popular or it was very unpopular... > > -- > Richard Vowles, Senior Systems Engineer, > Inprise New Zealand, MAIL: rvowles@inprise.com, rvowles@sew.co.nz > HTTP: The Esperanto Group, www.esperanto.org.nz > [my messages contain my own opinions, not those of my employer] > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 11:34:57 -0800 From: dlegend@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] dleggend I left aol and I can't update the page. I thought Aol would take it down, but they didn't. What did you try to download? my e-mail: dlegend@earthlink.net - -----Original Message----- From: Hĺvard Rřnne Faanes To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM Date: Wednesday, December 02, 1998 6:17 AM Subject: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] dleggend Does anyone know how I can contact this fellow? I was trying to download some stuff from his homepage, but, alas, it didnt work. And sending email to his aol adress didnt work either. :( Hĺvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 10:08:54 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - etymology of Thyatian months >Eirmont =earth mont? What about Air month; the air turns colder, toward Kaldmont? Jenn ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 18:59:12 +0100 From: Cobaye Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - etymology of Thyatian months it sounds right. About germans origins, i've thought much about sonnority like phonetic alphabet. Jennifer Favia a écrit: > >Eirmont =earth mont? > > What about Air month; the air turns colder, toward Kaldmont? > > Jenn > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #731 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Thursday, December 3 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 732 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - etymology of Thyatian months Re: [MYSTARA] - Gaming Etiquette? [MYSTARA] - Gaming one to one [MYSTARA] - Absent players Re: [MYSTARA] - Assimilation Re: [MYSTARA] - etymology of Thyatian months Re: [MYSTARA] - Assimilation Re: [MYSTARA] - etymology of Thyatian months Re: [MYSTARA] - ethymology of Thyatian months Re: [MYSTARA] - etymology of Thyatian months Re: [MYSTARA] - Absent players Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons... [MYSTARA] - Underocean Timeline AC 1014 and 1015 Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf-cleric Xps (for ODND) RE: [MYSTARA] - Gaming one to one ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 10:57:52 -0800 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - etymology of Thyatian months At 11:07 AM 12/2/98 CET, Herve wrote: >I always wondered what the "ethymology" of the Thyatian names for the >months could be. BTW, I think the correct spelling is "etymology" ;-) >Okay, -mont means month (that's the easy part). But what about the rest? The attributes you gave are very similar to what I think they are. Here are my comments: >Nuwmont = new month, the first month of the year >Vatermont = water month, i.e. rainy month I agree with "Water" but not the reason. I think it has more to do with being one of the four primary elements: Water, Earth, Fire and Air. Take a look at the second month in each group of four to see the connection. >Thaumont = ? Thaumont - thaw month i.e the month that the snows start to melt, the end of winter >Flaurmont = flower month, first month of the spring when the flora >blossoms >Yarthmont = ? Yarthmont = Earth month. (See my note on Vatermont for reasoning) >Klarmont = clear month? Seems to be the best choice of meaning, though I'm not sure why either. It corrosponds with June in the "real" calendar. Does anyone else have a suggestion? >Felmont = ? This is the only one I have never figured out. It corrosponds to July. >Fyrmont = fire month (hot summer) True about the hot summer, but, again, I think it's element based. >Ambyrmont = amber month, when leaves turn amber >Sviftmont = swift month? Sure it's a "swift" month, it's when the brisk winds and first snows of winter start. >Eirmont = ? Eirmont = Air month >Kaldmont = cold month Jenni - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs strawberry@jamm.com <==> http://www.jamm.com/ <------------------------------------------------------------------> God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. Then God started to think: "I should create things I *like*!" And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 19:43:16 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gaming Etiquette? > I didn't > think that Jamuga was wholly serious, but thought I'd point out my > observations. > As for flattery, well actually that wasn't my intent. The two of you post > very intelligently with a great insight into the game system and the setting > in > which you play. I respect that in any gamer. > Also, Jamuga, Leroy, Geoff, JDaly are others that I would love to get into > one of my campaigns. Unfortunately, as Jamuga later comments- distance is a > very > major problem. > After my first provoking remark I was seriously, but it was not a general statement against female gamers, only against those who've played with me. As I've wrote before, I haven't feeled flamed by your mail as you have used my mail to write about a prejudice often used in this matter. BTW, it IS possible to get me angry, but you haven't. At least not yet. :-) Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 19:49:13 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Gaming one to one > Sorry Geoff if I smile a bit about this situation, but I think you're right > in your doubts. The thing is really funny, cause I don't really know what's > good in playing one to one sessions: I admit I like gaming with multiple > players to see how they all react to each others' action and because this > is essentially what a RPG is all about: getting to know each other's > character in a big cradle of adventures, comic situations and epic combats. I can give you a good reason: My best friend had to leave the town. Now he lives some distance away and as he does not own a car it is impossible for him to come to our gaming sessions. This is a pity as he is one of the best players I've ever seen. So I visit him from time to time to commit one-to-one gaming - in both directions. It is more interesting as you might have expected. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 19:52:19 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Absent players > Anyway, I experienced a similar situation in my first gaming sessions, when > one of my players had to go home at midnite while I Dmed the others until > 1.30-2.00 am. Every time, or at least 2/3 of the times, he missed the > treasure they found in the enemy stronghold and the subsequent division of > the stuff. And each time he returned, the others had gotten the best items > and he got the ones nobody wanted.. Did I have to stop playing when he > quitted IYO? I thought not, cause I went with the majority's needs, but I > admit this proved a bit annoying for the poor player. Anyway, things have > changed now, and he's the PC who's got the highest XPs even though he has > got only one magical item (a longsword +2, +4 vs undead, and he's level > 27th!). A veritable proof that he's quite capable at gaming despite the > hard times at the beginning ;) After some mails I've read in the last time I'm wondering how you handle the problem of absent players. Have the characters to be absent too? How do you handle the distribution of magical items? My group converts the PCs of absent players into NPCs temporarily. It has some minor problems, but it works. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 20:14:45 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Assimilation > Well, if whole *villages* were transported, then I'd say the Ostlanders were preserved fairly well. I mean, not every one of those villagers is "merry"; many would remain true to their traditions. But the Ostlanders were changed to become a part of the Merry Pirates society. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 19:51:24 +0100 From: Cobaye Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - etymology of Thyatian months I've open my distionnary, and the term which it sounds the best i've found is "feel", it does mean, maybe, the month during it's the most good to breath..........? Klarmont, maybe because of it's the most long days month? Jenni A. M. Merrifield a écrit: > >Klarmont = clear month? > > Seems to be the best choice of meaning, though I'm not sure why either. > It corrosponds with June in the "real" calendar. Does anyone else have a > suggestion? > > >Felmont = ? > > This is the only one I have never figured out. It corrosponds to July. > > >Sviftmont = swift month? > > Sure it's a "swift" month, it's when the brisk winds and first snows of > winter start. > > >Eirmont = ? > > Eirmont = Air month > > >Kaldmont = cold month > > Jenni > -=> strawberryJAMM <=- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 15:38:46 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Assimilation On Wed, 2 Dec 1998, Jamuga Khan wrote: > But the Ostlanders were changed to become a part of the Merry Pirates > society. Why would they be changed? Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 12:55:19 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - etymology of Thyatian months Jenni wrote: (gosh, this *can* get confusing with the names, can't it?Is it Jenni or is it Jenn?...:-) >>Vatermont = water month, i.e. rainy month > > I agree with "Water" but not the reason. I think it has more to do with >being one of the four primary elements: Water, Earth, Fire and Air. Take >a look at the second month in each group of four to see the connection. > Yarthmont = Earth month. >>Klarmont = clear month? >Fyrmont= fire month >Eirmont= Air month I really like this idea--great observation, BTW. Now, I think the next question is, why are the four elements honored on these particular months (aside from weather)? Is there a magical sigificance? (All speculation, of course) >>Klarmont = clear month? > Seems to be the best choice of meaning, though I'm not sure why either. >It corrosponds with June in the "real" calendar. Does anyone else have a >suggestion? Well, maybe I'm going out on a limb, here, but this *is* the Thyatian calendar...We know that Thyatis is in a climatic zone to get hurricanes (also see Dragonking of Mystara)...could it refer to the fact that it is usually the last "clear" month before the summer storms tend to hit? >>Felmont = ? > > This is the only one I have never figured out. It corrosponds to July. Another off the wall suggestion: I'm looking at a dictionary, and the word "fell" (skin or hide of an animal) refers to animals...Could this term, then, refer to a time when they have a livestock market, or a big horse-related event for Kerendas? Jenn ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 19:50:41 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - ethymology of Thyatian months At 11.07 02/12/98 CET, Herve Musseau wrote: >I always wondered what the "ethymology" of the Thyatian names for the >months could be. Good question. >Nuwmont = new month, the first month of the year >Vatermont = water month, i.e. rainy month >Thaumont = ? As someone else said this is probably Thaw-month >Flaurmont = flower month, first month of the spring when the flora >blossoms >Yarthmont = ? Earth-month? >Klarmont = clear month? >Felmont = ? >Fyrmont = fire month (hot summer) >Ambyrmont = amber month, when leaves turn amber >Sviftmont = swift month? >Eirmont = ? What about Air-month, i.e a windy month? >Kaldmont = cold month ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@gdr.net http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 17:13:19 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - etymology of Thyatian months I'd noticed the "four elements" aspect of those particular months, too. Fyrmont = July makes sense. But I never made the connection between Vatermont and springtime rains: Good eye! :-) >>>Klarmont = clear month? > >> Seems to be the best choice of meaning, though I'm not sure why either. >>It corrosponds with June in the "real" calendar. Does anyone else have >>a suggestion? > >Well, maybe I'm going out on a limb, here, but this *is* the Thyatian >calendar...We know that Thyatis is in a climatic zone to get hurricanes >(also see Dragonking of Mystara)...could it refer to the fact that it is >usually the last "clear" month before the summer storms tend to hit? I think that's a good idea. Or, if not hurricanes, at least severe storms could start to crop up in the weeks after Klarmont. Does anyone know in which month the weather patterns of Sind's monsoons move east, each year, as they peter out across the islands and the coastline? (The fact that June's also a pretty non-windy month in Wisconsin, where most of TSR's staff resided at the time Mystara's calendar was written, might have something to do with it, too.... ;-D) >>>Felmont = ? >> >> This is the only one I have never figured out. It corrosponds to >July. > >Another off the wall suggestion: I'm looking at a dictionary, and the >word "fell" (skin or hide of an animal) refers to animals...Could this >term, then, refer to a time when they have a livestock market, or a big >horse-related event for Kerendas? Well, livestock born in the spring could certainly be slaughtered in June, producing plenty of hides for leatherworkers. Or it could be referring to "felling" (as in harvesting) the first crop of the year. In a warm climate like that of Thyatis, there's probably two annual crops: one in early summer, and another in late autumn. (Does the timing of the PWA's famines and mummy-rot plague support this....?) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 23:07:59 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Absent players At 19.52 02/12/98 +0100, Jamuga Khan wrote: >After some mails I've read in the last time I'm wondering how you handle >the problem of absent players. Have the characters to be absent too? How do >you handle the distribution of magical items? > >My group converts the PCs of absent players into NPCs temporarily. It has >some minor problems, but it works. We did something similar. PCs of absent players are turned into NPCs played by either the DM or, more often, the other players. About magical items. In my previous AD&D group we wrote down a strict code to distribute magical items avoiding heated arguments, so even if a player was absent there wouldn't have been any problem. In my current group there has never been any discussion about magical items: whoever can use it best takes that object and some items have also changed hands a few times. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@gdr.net http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 22:00:51 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons... One idea to consider is this -- even though a dragon's "natural" flying ability prohibits hovering, most dragons have the ability to cast randomly selected wizard spells. If one of those randomly selected spells happens to be "Levitate", then the dragon can indeed hover while that spell is in effect.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 21:12:55 -0600 From: anowack@juno.com (Aaron E Nowack) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Underocean Timeline AC 1014 and 1015 1014 Nuwmont 1: The New Year Description: As the new year begins, the conflict in Underocean continues. The aquatic beholders continue to raid southern and central Underocean, and the Council forces are slowly being pushed north by Maed, "King" of Underocean. Nuwmont 12: More Devilfish Sightings Description: In southern Underocean, kelp farmers continue to report sightings of devilfish. What This Means: The devilfish have finally eliminated most of the resistance in Undersea, and are now sending their forces to eliminate the refugees. Vatermont 23: Council Staves Off Attack Description: Maed launches a major assualt on the remaining Council holdings. However, the outnumbered defenders manage to fight off his forces... for now. Thaumont 6: Devilfish Invade Description: Thousands of devilfish pour into southern Underocean, slaughtering the resident triton and merrow. The devilfish horde then moves north and west. Refugees flee to central Underocean. Yathmont 26: Devilfish and Beholders Clash Description: In southern Underocean, the devilfish and the aquatic beholders begin to fight for control. The beholders, weakened by last year's campaign, are unable to defeat the devilfish, and southern and western Underocean falls to the devilfish, who begin raids into northern and central Underocean. Klarmont 3: Alliance Offered Description: The Council offers a temporary alliance to Maed for the purpose of fighting off the devilfish. He refuses. Felmont 9: Maed Pushed Back Description: Confronted on two fronts by the devilfish and the Council, Maed is pushed back. He retains control of the capital, Maelstrom, and eastern Underocean. Sviftmont 12: Aquatic Beholders Attacked Description: The devilfish assualt the aquatic beholder city. Though they are eventually defeated, Juliast, who has been held prisoner since last year, escapes in the confusion. He begins to make his way back to Underocean. Kaldmont 28: The Day of Dread Description: Magic fails all over Mystara. The devilfish, taking advantage of this, attack and destroy the town of Maelstrom. 1015 Nuwmont 1: The New Year Description: The new year begins. Maed leads an army to retake the ruins of Maelstrom and suceeds. Nuwmont 23: Council Attacks Description: Taking advantage of Maed's weakness, the Council attempts to take the capital. After four hours of bloody fighting, they are forced to retreat northward once more. Vatermont 4: Juliast Finds Alphatian Artifact Description: Hiding in a ruined mage's tower from devilfish patrols, Juliast is found and attacked. He stumbles upon a staff, and picks it up to use against his enemies. However, the devilfish then flee. Juliast determines that the staff is magical. What This Means: The staff is an Alphatian Artifact (see NA 1015). It is inhabited by the spirit of an Alphatian mage, who was disturbed by the devilfish descrating his tower, and saw to it that they were defeated. He was able to temporarily take control of Juliast and activate the staff. The staff has the following powers: *A mirror image of all friendly combatants. *Enemies must make a morale check or suffer from the effects of a fear spell. * +2 bonus to weapons and armor of all friendly combatants. It works at half effectiveness more than 1000 miles from the Maelstrom, and not at all more than 2000. Thaumont 11: Juliast meets Council Description: Juliast meets up with the Council, which informs him of recent events. He declares that he will depose Maed and drive out the beholders and the devilfish. Flarmont 2: Juliast Attacks Description: Juliast assualts the Capital. The powers of his staff wreck havoc with the defender's morale. Maed is unable to hold him off and flees to eastern Underocean, leaving Juliast in control of north and central Underocean. Yarthmont 17: Maed Captured Description: Maed's forces revolt and turn him over to Juliast in return for amnesty. The civil war is over, but the devilfish still control south and west Underocean. Klarmont 5: Maed Executed Description: Maed is executed for treason. Klarmont 15: Juliast Combines Armies Description: Juliast begins to combine the Council's and Maed's army into a force capable of driving out the devilfish. Felmont 20: Juliast Pushes South Description: Juliast moves south, forcing the devilfish before him. His staff once again proves its usefullness, making his army seem twice as big. Ambrymont 16: Second Battle of Aalsa Description: Fighting among the ruins of Aalsa, Juliast deals the devilfish a major defeat. Several undead are spotted, but whether they were raised by the devilfish or some other force is unknown. The remaining devilfish begin to flee south, toward Aquas... Eirmont 17: Beholders Leave Description: With the devilfish defeated, Juliast issues an ultimatum to the beholders: leave Underocean or else. Not wishing to fight Juliast's magicaly enhanced army, they leave Underocean, heading north. Kaldmont 28: Day of Dread Description: Magic fails all over Mystara. Juliast hears a voice coming from his staff. He also begins to feel weakened and drained. He begins to have doubts about keeping the artifact. What This Means: The mage that inhabits the staff is attempting to take control of Juliast's body. Horay! The Undersea timeline is now up to date. This project began on Wensday, September 10, 1997. Geez... it's hard to believe it took more than a year. Anyways, all the previous timelines are available at my website. And now its time for the credits: Thanks to Herve Musseau for various ideas. Thanks to the Alphatian Sea group for yet more help and ideas. Thanks to everyone who commented on the timeline. Thanks to everyone who responded to the abortive "Undersea Timeline Contest" Thanks to everyone who's visited my website (that more than 700 hits since April of this year is quite nice :) Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/5930/ ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 23:28:53 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf-cleric Xps (for ODND) In a message dated 1998-12-02 06:39:28 Eastern Standard Time, ezaqwazy@hotmail.com writes: > IIrc there were some rules put forward in `VPA` which ewere about elven > clerics. They advanced on cleric table and gained all abilities thereof > instead of standard elven abilities or something similar. So what is "VPA"? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 09:23:15 +0100 From: Kristian Kramer Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Gaming one to one When playing one-to-one, there is obviously one GM and one player. But how many characters are participating and how many of them are NPCs and how many PCs? When I play one-to-one (which should actually be called one-with-one :-) one of the players is GM who also plays a PC (or more a semi-NPC) and the other plays one or two PCs (well, the second PC is more of a NPC controlled by the player). It probably has some negative effect on the role-playing part of the NPCs, but hey, we've got bigger parties that way (which is a handy thing when you're a low level PC). When we play with higher level (5+) characters, the GM only uses NPCs and the player one PC. Kristian "X" Kramer http://www.xanthus.demon.nl > -----Original Message----- > From: Jamuga Khan [SMTP:JamugaKhan@gmx.net] > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 1998 7:49 PM > To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM > Subject: [MYSTARA] - Gaming one to one > > > Sorry Geoff if I smile a bit about this situation, but I think you're > right > > in your doubts. The thing is really funny, cause I don't really know > what's > > good in playing one to one sessions: I admit I like gaming with multiple > > players to see how they all react to each others' action and because > this > > is essentially what a RPG is all about: getting to know each other's > > character in a big cradle of adventures, comic situations and epic > combats. > > > I can give you a good reason: My best friend had to leave the town. Now he > lives some distance away and as he does not own a car it is impossible for > him to come to our gaming sessions. This is a pity as he is one of the > best > players I've ever seen. > > So I visit him from time to time to commit one-to-one gaming - in both > directions. It is more interesting as you might have expected. > > > > Jamuga Khan > > > > "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." > ************************************************************************** > * > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the > line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #732 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Thursday, December 3 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 733 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - etymology of months [MYSTARA] - Etymology of months RE: [MYSTARA] - Etymology of months Re: [MYSTARA] - etymology of months Re: [MYSTARA] - Gaming one to one Re: [MYSTARA] - etymology of months Re: [MYSTARA] - etymology of months Re: [MYSTARA] - etymology of months RE: [MYSTARA] - Gaming one to one Re: [MYSTARA] - Assimilation Re: [MYSTARA] - etymology of months Re: [MYSTARA] - etymology of months ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 11:28:36 CET From: "Herve Musseau" Subject: [MYSTARA] - etymology of months Okay, I loved the responses I got from ya all! I especially liked Strawberry's idea about elemental months. Vatermont is associated with Water as this is a rainy month, Yarthmont is associated with earth as the earth revives after the winter, Fyrmont is assocaited with fire as it's a hot month, and Eirmont is associated with air as it's a windy month. Of course the astrological and magical implications of this are... well to be discussed of course. How could I not see "thaw"? Yet I was searching in that direction, but when English is not your mother tongue sometimes simple things escape you... ah well. So except for Klarmont and Felmont which remain somewhat obscure (though ideas, some of them quite good, have been proposed), we have it. Doesn't sound very Thyatian names, does it? Anyway. So now let's see what the Alphatian equivalents are. Maybe it can help us determine what those missing Thyatian month are, or see the differences between the Thytian and teh Alphatian views. (in the Almphatian order, of course) Obviously, mir means month. Alphamir (Thaumont) March It's the first month of the Alphatian calendar. It always was my belief that in Alphatian the world "alpha" means many things, especially "one" and "first", and also as a consequence it's also the name of the first letter of the alphabet, and that of their people ("the first people" or "the one people"). Thus Alphamir litteraly means first month. Sulamir (Flaurmont) April ? Maybe sul = sol, the sun? Sudmir (Yarthmont) May ? If we use the paradigm that the Alphatian calendar also has the elemental month, then sud would mean earth. Vertmir (Klarmont) June the green month Islamir (Felmont) July ? island? Andrumir (Fyrmont) August ? Andro- root? I doubt that at the time of DotE they knew of Andaire, the capital of Alphatia in the HW, so that can't be that. Anyone sees a relation with fire? Cyprimir (Ambyrmont) September copper month. In Alphatian the leaves turn copper (the skin color of the Cypri). It might also have been an important month for the Cypri. Hastmir (Sviftmont) October haste month, just like swift month Eimir (Eirmont) November month of air Burymir (Kaldmont) December This one is a bit hard. Maybe it's burial month, so it would be the month of the dead (favorite by necromancers)? Nyxmir (Nuwmont) January month of darkness. Named after Nyx, patron of darkness. Favorite by Her followers and by necromancers (they have two strong months in a row... brrr). Amphimir (Vatermont) February month of water _____________________________________________________________ Herve Musseau Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/ Net Almanac: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/9037/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 11:30:53 CET From: "Herve Musseau" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Etymology of months Okay, I loved the responses I got from ya all! I especially liked Strawberry's idea about elemental months. Vatermont is associated with Water as this is a rainy month, Yarthmont is associated with earth as the earth revives after the winter, Fyrmont is assocaited with fire as it's a hot month, and Eirmont is associated with air as it's a windy month. Of course the astrological and magical implications of this are... well to be discussed of course. How could I not see "thaw"? Yet I was searching in that direction, but when English is not your mother tongue sometimes simple things escape you... ah well. So except for Klarmont and Felmont which remain somewhat obscure (though ideas, some of them quite good, have been proposed), we have it. Doesn't sound very Thyatian names, does it? Anyway. So now let's see what the Alphatian equivalents are. Maybe it can help us determine what those missing Thyatian month are, or see the differences between the Thytian and teh Alphatian views. (in the Almphatian order, of course) Obviously, mir means month. Alphamir (Thaumont) March It's the first month of the Alphatian calendar. It always was my belief that in Alphatian the world "alpha" means many things, especially "one" and "first", and also as a consequence it's also the name of the first letter of the alphabet, and that of their people ("the first people" or "the one people"). Thus Alphamir litteraly means first month. Sulamir (Flaurmont) April ? Maybe sul = sol, the sun? Sudmir (Yarthmont) May ? If we use the paradigm that the Alphatian calendar also has the elemental month, then sud would mean earth. Vertmir (Klarmont) June the green month Islamir (Felmont) July ? island? Andrumir (Fyrmont) August ? Andro- root? I doubt that at the time of DotE they knew of Andaire, the capital of Alphatia in the HW, so that can't be that. Anyone sees a relation with fire? Cyprimir (Ambyrmont) September copper month. In Alphatian the leaves turn copper (the skin color of the Cypri). It might also have been an important month for the Cypri. Hastmir (Sviftmont) October haste month, just like swift month Eimir (Eirmont) November month of air Burymir (Kaldmont) December This one is a bit hard. Maybe it's burial month, so it would be the month of the dead (favorite by necromancers)? Nyxmir (Nuwmont) January month of darkness. Named after Nyx, patron of darkness. Favorite by Her followers and by necromancers (they have two strong months in a row... brrr). Amphimir (Vatermont) February month of water _____________________________________________________________ Herve Musseau Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/ Net Almanac: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/9037/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 11:51:11 +0100 From: Kristian Kramer Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Etymology of months It remains difficult. How about this: Vertmir must indeed be the green month, Vert = fertile... Sud could also mean hot or south (?)... Amphi being water sounds good. I don't know that much of the Alphatians, but maybe some river flooded every year at a certain month (like the Nile)? Kristian "X" Kramer http://www.xanthus.demon.nl "Those who live by the sword, get shot by those who don't." > -----Original Message----- > From: Herve Musseau [SMTP:herve@hotmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 1998 12:31 PM > To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM > Subject: [MYSTARA] - Etymology of months > > Okay, I loved the responses I got from ya all! > > I especially liked Strawberry's idea about elemental months. Vatermont > is associated with Water as this is a rainy month, Yarthmont is > associated with earth as the earth revives after the winter, Fyrmont is > assocaited with fire as it's a hot month, and Eirmont is associated with > air as it's a windy month. Of course the astrological and magical > implications of this are... well to be discussed of course. > > How could I not see "thaw"? Yet I was searching in that direction, but > when English is not your mother tongue sometimes simple things escape > you... ah well. > > So except for Klarmont and Felmont which remain somewhat obscure (though > ideas, some of them quite good, have been proposed), we have it. Doesn't > sound very Thyatian names, does it? Anyway. > > So now let's see what the Alphatian equivalents are. Maybe it can help > us determine what those missing Thyatian month are, or see the > differences between the Thytian and teh Alphatian views. > > (in the Almphatian order, of course) > Obviously, mir means month. > > Alphamir (Thaumont) March > It's the first month of the Alphatian calendar. It always was my > belief that in Alphatian the world "alpha" means many things, especially > "one" and "first", and also as a consequence it's also the name of the > first letter of the alphabet, and that of their people ("the first > people" or "the one people"). Thus Alphamir litteraly means first month. > Sulamir (Flaurmont) April > ? Maybe sul = sol, the sun? > Sudmir (Yarthmont) May > ? If we use the paradigm that the Alphatian calendar also has the > elemental month, then sud would mean earth. > Vertmir (Klarmont) June > the green month > Islamir (Felmont) July > ? island? > Andrumir (Fyrmont) August > ? Andro- root? I doubt that at the time of DotE they knew of Andaire, > the capital of Alphatia in the HW, so that can't be that. Anyone sees a > relation with fire? > Cyprimir (Ambyrmont) September > copper month. In Alphatian the leaves turn copper (the skin color of > the Cypri). It might also have been an important month for the Cypri. > Hastmir (Sviftmont) October > haste month, just like swift month > Eimir (Eirmont) November > month of air > Burymir (Kaldmont) December > This one is a bit hard. Maybe it's burial month, so it would be the > month of the dead (favorite by necromancers)? > Nyxmir (Nuwmont) January > month of darkness. Named after Nyx, patron of darkness. Favorite by > Her followers and by necromancers (they have two strong months in a > row... brrr). > Amphimir (Vatermont) February > month of water > > > _____________________________________________________________ > Herve Musseau > Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/ > Net Almanac: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/9037/ > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ************************************************************************** > * > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the > line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 14:38:27 +0100 From: Cobaye Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - etymology of months Alpha also means "the beginning". But I think about the alphatians mind, and i think the names are more related to history, immortals, genders, anyway people of alphatia. Maybe Alpha means the first as also Alphatia, which probably means that Alphatia is the best country of the known world. Herve Musseau a écrit: > Okay, I loved the responses I got from ya all! > > I especially liked Strawberry's idea about elemental months. Vatermont > is associated with Water as this is a rainy month, Yarthmont is > associated with earth as the earth revives after the winter, Fyrmont is > assocaited with fire as it's a hot month, and Eirmont is associated with > air as it's a windy month. Of course the astrological and magical > implications of this are... well to be discussed of course. > > How could I not see "thaw"? Yet I was searching in that direction, but > when English is not your mother tongue sometimes simple things escape > you... ah well. > > So except for Klarmont and Felmont which remain somewhat obscure (though > ideas, some of them quite good, have been proposed), we have it. Doesn't > sound very Thyatian names, does it? Anyway. > > So now let's see what the Alphatian equivalents are. Maybe it can help > us determine what those missing Thyatian month are, or see the > differences between the Thytian and teh Alphatian views. > > (in the Almphatian order, of course) > Obviously, mir means month. > > Alphamir (Thaumont) March > It's the first month of the Alphatian calendar. It always was my > belief that in Alphatian the world "alpha" means many things, especially > "one" and "first", and also as a consequence it's also the name of the > first letter of the alphabet, and that of their people ("the first > people" or "the one people"). Thus Alphamir litteraly means first month. > Sulamir (Flaurmont) April > ? Maybe sul = sol, the sun? > Sudmir (Yarthmont) May > ? If we use the paradigm that the Alphatian calendar also has the > elemental month, then sud would mean earth. > Vertmir (Klarmont) June > the green month > Islamir (Felmont) July > ? island? > Andrumir (Fyrmont) August > ? Andro- root? I doubt that at the time of DotE they knew of Andaire, > the capital of Alphatia in the HW, so that can't be that. Anyone sees a > relation with fire? > Cyprimir (Ambyrmont) September > copper month. In Alphatian the leaves turn copper (the skin color of > the Cypri). It might also have been an important month for the Cypri. > Hastmir (Sviftmont) October > haste month, just like swift month > Eimir (Eirmont) November > month of air > Burymir (Kaldmont) December > This one is a bit hard. Maybe it's burial month, so it would be the > month of the dead (favorite by necromancers)? > Nyxmir (Nuwmont) January > month of darkness. Named after Nyx, patron of darkness. Favorite by > Her followers and by necromancers (they have two strong months in a > row... brrr). > Amphimir (Vatermont) February > month of water > > _____________________________________________________________ > Herve Musseau > Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/ > Net Almanac: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/9037/ > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 09:28:29 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gaming one to one I was in a two person campaign in the mid-late '80s, and we handled it in two ways: 1) we switched back and forth between who was DMing and who was playing, with one of us DMing one session and the other one the next. The DM's character(s) would be run as NPCs. 2) we made extensive use of Henchies (this was back during 1st Ed. AD&D, when you could recruit the suckers). We had both participated in an earlier campaign with a bunch of people where the DMing was handled round robin fashion (switching among us), so we were used to that. We had less experience with using Henchies, but after some initial problems (loading up on 'em, basically), we got the hang of that, and I've loved using Henchies ever since. > > When playing one-to-one, there is obviously one GM and one player. But how > many characters are participating and how many of them are NPCs and how many > PCs? When I play one-to-one (which should actually be called one-with-one > :-) one of the players is GM who also plays a PC (or more a semi-NPC) and > the other plays one or two PCs (well, the second PC is more of a NPC > controlled by the player). It probably has some negative effect on the > role-playing part of the NPCs, but hey, we've got bigger parties that way > (which is a handy thing when you're a low level PC). When we play with > higher level (5+) characters, the GM only uses NPCs and the player one PC. > > Kristian "X" Kramer > http://www.xanthus.demon.nl > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jamuga Khan [SMTP:JamugaKhan@gmx.net] > > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 1998 7:49 PM > > To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM > > Subject: [MYSTARA] - Gaming one to one > > > > > Sorry Geoff if I smile a bit about this situation, but I think you're > > right > > > in your doubts. The thing is really funny, cause I don't really know > > what's > > > good in playing one to one sessions: I admit I like gaming with multiple > > > players to see how they all react to each others' action and because > > this > > > is essentially what a RPG is all about: getting to know each other's > > > character in a big cradle of adventures, comic situations and epic > > combats. > > > > > > I can give you a good reason: My best friend had to leave the town. Now he > > lives some distance away and as he does not own a car it is impossible for > > him to come to our gaming sessions. This is a pity as he is one of the > > best > > players I've ever seen. > > > > So I visit him from time to time to commit one-to-one gaming - in both > > directions. It is more interesting as you might have expected. > > > > > > > > Jamuga Khan > > > > > > > > "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." > > ************************************************************************** > > * > > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the > > line > > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 10:33:54 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - etymology of months On Thu, 3 Dec 1998, Herve Musseau wrote: > us determine what those missing Thyatian month are, or see the > differences between the Thytian and teh Alphatian views. I don't think there is a direct correlation. So.. W/o Further Adieu.. > Alphamir (Thaumont) March > people" or "the one people"). Thus Alphamir litteraly means first month. I agree. > Sulamir (Flaurmont) April > ? Maybe sul = sol, the sun? > Sudmir (Yarthmont) May > ? If we use the paradigm that the Alphatian calendar also has the > elemental month, then sud would mean earth. I think that the Alphatians are a bit more advanced than to name their months after the elements. Also this is a bit to corny for both empired to do it. Look at the roots of the months. Sula and Sud. independantly, they aren't worth much, but since they follow right after each other, they may have a correlation. Could "Sula" be the feminine form of "Sud"? > Vertmir (Klarmont) June > the green month Too much French! Aaaahh! - But it seems logical. > Islamir (Felmont) July > ? island? Hmm. sounds more like a religious thing (Islam + ir) :) > Andrumir (Fyrmont) August > ? Andro- root? I doubt that at the time of DotE they knew of Andaire, > the capital of Alphatia in the HW, so that can't be that. Anyone sees a > relation with fire? Andro- as a root meens "male", An Androsphinx is a male sphinx, for example. Maybe Isla means female in Alphatian? > Cyprimir (Ambyrmont) September > copper month. In Alphatian the leaves turn copper (the skin color of > the Cypri). It might also have been an important month for the Cypri. Can't complain about this one. > Hastmir (Sviftmont) October > haste month, just like swift month no complaints. > Eimir (Eirmont) November > month of air I prefer windy month. November, at least around here (The latitudes that Sundsvall would be at) is REALLY windy, dry, cold, and blah. > Burymir (Kaldmont) December > This one is a bit hard. Maybe it's burial month, so it would be the > month of the dead (favorite by necromancers)? Nah. Too depressive. Bury- (I pronounce is boory) could be a alphatian word for snow. > Nyxmir (Nuwmont) January > month of darkness. Named after Nyx, patron of darkness. Favorite by > Her followers and by necromancers (they have two strong months in a > row... brrr). Hmm. I like it. > Amphimir (Vatermont) February > month of water Amphi = the one before the first? (Amphi +1 = Alpha?) Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 13:49:36 EST From: BoBoII@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - etymology of months In a message dated 98-12-03 10:55:06 EST, you write: << Nah. Too depressive. Bury- (I pronounce is boory) could be a alphatian word for snow. >> Could it be as simple/silly as "Brrrrr"-y month. The silly factor on some Mystara stuff did get pretty high at times. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 14:14:53 EST From: BoBoII@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - etymology of months In a message dated 98-12-03 10:55:06 EST, you write: << > Amphimir (Vatermont) February > month of water Amphi = the one before the first? (Amphi +1 = Alpha?) >> Amph-, both latin and greek, means "around", or "on both sides" (a la Amphitheater),and is akin to Ambi-, meaning "both". So we could have "the end on one year; the start of the other"-month, a time of change and transition, with some of the first glimpes of spring. OR "All around-"month which could be a time of gatherings, and end of year business for the people . . . perhaps to get a head count of who survived the long dark winter in the early days of the Cypri tribes, OR It could be short for "Amphibious-" month. The Alphatan may have a long history of sailing and exploration (perhaps originally a costal/island culture on the home world? Islamir??) Whicj could explainwhy they are so blase about building whole communities in the air and underwater, as well as large fleets to travel in both mediums. So amph- could haken back to the old days . . . Maybe everyone suposed to take a dip in the ocean, both to metaphorically "connnect" with your roots, and to wash of the stink of being inside all winter. THAT will wake you up and get you ready for the new year: a little ocean swim in February! Related question: What really IS known about conditions on Old Alphatia? I seem to recall that the climate was warmer than on Mystara (silk robes, etc). Also, what is known about the early days of the Alphe'ans* (Pure bloods to you) and the Cypri? BoBoII "Hear and obey . . .yadda, yadda, yadda" *My own term for "Blue-skins" (al-FAY-inz) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 11:25:37 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Gaming one to one >When I play one-to-one (which should actually be called one-with-one >:-) one of the players is GM who also plays a PC (or more a semi-NPC) and >the other plays one or two PCs (well, the second PC is more of a NPC >controlled by the player). It probably has some negative effect on the >role-playing part of the NPCs, but hey, we've got bigger parties that way That sounds familiar! Ariel and I are a gaming group of two, and so all of our games are one-to-one. Whoever is DM-ing takes one or two PCs or NPCs, and the other person takes a couple as well. Of course--we had to work up to this; when we started, we couldn't handle multiple players. It is very difficult; but as for it having a negative effect on role-playing, perhaps it did at first, but now (three years later) we are old pros. And I think I speak for both of us when I say that we find it very rewarding to be able to have a "normal" sized party, especially since our other options are one character only (which definitely limits possibilities), or nothing at all. Jenn ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 20:39:11 +0200 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Assimilation >> But the Ostlanders were changed to become a part of the Merry Pirates >> society. > >Why would they be changed? > I agree. I mean, not every single HW Ostlander is a pirate. Many (like the pirates' families) still live in their villages, following their traditional ways. After all, there are Makai living among the Pirates too, and they are preserves as they were originally. ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Blue Star aka Azure Star Dragon solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 19:22:05 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - etymology of months At 11.28 03/12/98 CET, Herve Musseau wrote: Grr.. I would have liked to ask this after you finished discussing the Thyatian months :-) >Alphamir (Thaumont) March > It's the first month of the Alphatian calendar. It always was my >belief that in Alphatian the world "alpha" means many things, especially >"one" and "first", and also as a consequence it's also the name of the >first letter of the alphabet, and that of their people ("the first >people" or "the one people"). Thus Alphamir litteraly means first month. I would have said: Alpha is the first letter of the alphabet, hence we call the first month Alphamir, anyway this is not a problem. Problem is: why don't they call the last month "Omegamir"? Alpha and Omega are the first and last letter of Greek alphabet IIRC, and "from Alpha to Omega" is a common saying here in Italy. >Sulamir (Flaurmont) April > ? Maybe sul = sol, the sun? In spanish (or portoguese) "sul" means south, right? However the sun and the South are somewhat linked, because the sun is brighter at midday when it is at South. >Sudmir (Yarthmont) May > ? If we use the paradigm that the Alphatian calendar also has the >elemental month, then sud would mean earth. BTW: in Italian sud means... ehm South. >Vertmir (Klarmont) June > the green month What about Vertiloch? Green-lake (loch is scottish for lake) or Green-place (loch is similar to the Italian "luogo", i.e. place). >Islamir (Felmont) July > ? island? >Andrumir (Fyrmont) August > ? Andro- root? I doubt that at the time of DotE they knew of Andaire, >the capital of Alphatia in the HW, so that can't be that. Anyone sees a >relation with fire? Andro is the greek root for male. This may be related with the androsphinx on the Alphatia player's guide. That sphinx is probably a symbol of Alphatia. OTOH Andro may also be linked to the fire: Andro=male=Ixion=fire. >Cyprimir (Ambyrmont) September > copper month. In Alphatian the leaves turn copper (the skin color of >the Cypri). It might also have been an important month for the Cypri. >Hastmir (Sviftmont) October > haste month, just like swift month >Eimir (Eirmont) November > month of air Ok this three. >Burymir (Kaldmont) December > This one is a bit hard. Maybe it's burial month, so it would be the >month of the dead (favorite by necromancers)? >Nyxmir (Nuwmont) January > month of darkness. Named after Nyx, patron of darkness. Favorite by >Her followers and by necromancers (they have two strong months in a >row... brrr). >Amphimir (Vatermont) February > month of water BTW: what does the amphi- root in amphibian means? I think we should look at ancient greek to know more about Alphatian months. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@gdr.net http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 00:16:11 +0100 From: Cobaye Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - etymology of months Fabrizio Paoli a écrit: > BTW: what does the amphi- root in amphibian means? > > I think we should look at ancient greek to know more about Alphatian months. amphi- in ancient greek means both sides and -bian comes from bios which means life > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #733 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, December 4 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 734 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia: The Lost Histories RE: [MYSTARA] - Gaming one to one [MYSTARA] - Etymology of month [MYSTARA] - Etymology of months [MYSTARA] - HW 1015 almanac supplement: KLARMONT [MYSTARA] - Looking for a picture + a question about weapon skills RE: [MYSTARA] - Looking for a picture + a question about weapon s kills Re: [MYSTARA] - Looking for a picture + a question about weapon skills ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 23:03:27 -0800 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia: The Lost Histories >From the Annals of Alphatia, vol. 5: "... In the days following Landfall, the mighty sorcerors of the Alphatian Empire set about exploration of the vast new continent they called home. Their journeys ranged far and wide, across the breadth of the land, seeking to bring the forces of nature under their control. Ar, founder of the nation of the same name; Aasla, founder of Haven- names of just a few successful explorers of early Mystaran Alphatia. Yet, for every benevolently minded wizard out there, there were just as many whose interests were more self-directed. Such were those who first ventured into the great northern woods of the continent. Prior to the arrival of the Alphatians, the forests of Alphatia were a natural preserve. Virtually devoid of intelligent species or monstrous creatures (such as goblinoids, who had not progressed inland beyond the Kerothar mountains), flora and fauna lived an undisturbed existence. Such a haven life, untouched by the hand of man, was an incredible temptation for Alphatian sorcerors. Many came to the forest simply to observe, and study the natural world. Many more saw it as an untapped resource for the further advancement of their magical research. They set about plundering the woodlands, enslaving and destroying the plants and animals that resided within, all in the interest of self-gain. Half a world away, the elves of the distant Sylvan Realm had come to a parting of ways. Many of the clans settled there had decided to follow the elf named Mealiden Starwatcher to the lands that would eventually become Alfheim. Still other clans of elves- the largest among them being the Shiye clan- decided to emigrate elsewhere. Under the advice of their patron, Eiryndul, they left their brothers in the Sylvan Realm and finally settled in the central forests of Alphatia. By the time of the elves' arrival, the wholesale destruction of the northern woods had reached dramatic levels. The elves' first contact with the Alphatians, was a horrific experience. Alphatian wizards had found numerous uses for the woodland resources; in particular, a burgeoning trade in potions of Longevity, made from the hearts of Hamadryads. The woods were a twisted, blighted expanse for miles around, and growing larger all the time. Animals and plants were horribly mutated- victims of magical experiments gone wrong. Worse, the Alphatians showed no signs of stopping their practices. Even had the elves' own lands to the south not been threatened by advancing explorations, they would have risen to avenge the horrors wrought by the Alphatians. Perhaps this was the reason behind Eiryndul's inspired migration; none can truly say, save the Immortals themselves. At any rate, the outcome of first contact resulted, inevitably, in war. For centuries it would rage on- elf versus human, in a battle for control over the woodlands of Alphatia. The battle lines wavered back and forth, the tides of war favoring one side, and then the other; Meanwhile, more death and destruction resulted.* At long last, the Emperor and Grand Council of Wizards were able to bring the situation under control. Long discussions between the elves and the Council resulted in a number of momentous decisions. The first, and perhaps most significant, was the recognition of intelligent species- affording them status within the bounds of the Empire according to ability. An important corollary to this was the ability of any spellcasting member of any species to be afforded the rights of Alphatian nobility. All elves thus effectively became nobles of the Alphatian Empire, and the wholesale slaughter and destruction of intelligent woodland creatures (such as Hamadryads) would henceforth be considered a criminal act. The second thing the Council decided upon was the division of the woodlands between the elves and the wizards. The elves were given the central forests which they inhabit to this day, and which became known as Shiye-Lawr, after the major elvish clan. The non-elves were given the blighted northern woods, in a kingdom which was then called Shraek (named for the largest human settlement therein)**. A fragile peace was thus reached between the main two disparate groups living on the continent. With the end of the war, the Alphatians had at last tamed their new lands, and were able to set their sights on conquering surrounding nations, as they had done in the distant realms of their former homes..." * During this period, several elven clans left Alphatia to settle other lands far from humankind. Among these are the Trueflower clan of the Isle of Dawn, and several of the groups found in distant Norwold. ** Long referred to by the elves as "land of the Black Hearts", the kingdom was officially renamed Blackheart some 300 years ago, under the reign of King Fredigar I. Fredigar, also known as "Uncle Freddy", ruled during the era of beautification begun by Mylertendal. In response to the outbreak of artistic sentiment and resulting tourist activity, Fredigar started a campaign of his own. He appeared in numerous ads clad in a garish red, white, and black outfit and stovepipe hat, holding out a halting hand with the banner "We Don't Want You!" printed across the bottom. For these and other acts, Fredigar earned the epithet, "the Cynic." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 10:17:18 +0100 From: Kristian Kramer Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Gaming one to one James Ruhland wrote: 1) we switched back and forth between who was DMing and who was playing, with one of us DMing one session and the other one the next. The DM's character(s) would be run as NPCs. 2) we made extensive use of Henchies (this was back during 1st Ed. AD&D, when you could recruit the suckers). Kramer's reply: Yup, the switching back between DM's is something we did too. That way you never knew what was gonna happen. We still play one-with-one games (The Red Dust campaign, which isn't staged in Mystara). Henchmen are indeed very useful ("Errr... who's gonna carry all this heavy stuff? Ah, there you are, my loyal Henchman, please carry this heavy load and I am very grateful and all that." :-o Jenn wrote: That sounds familiar! Ariel and I are a gaming group of two, and so all of our games are one-to-one. Whoever is DM-ing takes one or two PCs or NPCs, and the other person takes a couple as well. Of course--we had to work up to this; when we started, we couldn't handle multiple players. It is very difficult; but as for it having a negative effect on role-playing, perhaps it did at first, but now (three years later) we are old pros. And I think I speak for both of us when I say that we find it very rewarding to be able to have a "normal" sized party, especially since our other options are one character only (which definitely limits possibilities), or nothing at all. Kramer's reply: You are right when you say, that it is difficult to role-play two, three or more characters at first, but the longer you play this way, the better you get. But I always had one 'master character' the one I spend most time on creating. At the moment that's Unwit Orcripper a Dwarven Fighter, with high strength and low int. It's very fun to play (you don't have to think much about what to do: "If it moves, hack it. If it doesn't move, hack it anyway!"). To avoid hack 'n slash adventures, I have a second character: a necromancer. Kristian "X" Kramer "Those who live by the sword, get shot by those who don't..." http://www.xanthus.demon.nl *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 10:39:36 CET From: "Herve Musseau" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Etymology of month From: SteelAngel << > Sudmir (Yarthmont) May > ? If we use the paradigm that the Alphatian calendar also has the > elemental month, then sud would mean earth. I think that the Alphatians are a bit more advanced than to name their months after the elements. Also this is a bit to corny for both empired to do it. >> Well, the Alphatian culture arose from elemental magic. Remember those air vs. fire followers wars that destroyed Old Alphatia? And there is strong water elemental magic present in Alphatia too, with Aquas. So, moreso than the Thyatians, it would seem logical that the Alphatians have months named after the elements, and those months are probably most favorable to the elementalists of the related element.. << Look at the roots of the months. Sula and Sud. independantly, they aren't worth much, but since they follow right after each other, they may have a correlation. Could "Sula" be the feminine form of "Sud"? >> Interesting idea, especially with Brizio's remark that both are roots for the word "south". Maybe one celebrates the sun in its elemental, fiery, temperamental nature (Ixion), while the other celebrates it in its maternal, live-supporting nature (Djaea? She's generally more related to earth than sun, but Alphatians being alien might see the incarnation of the earth/Mystara in a different light). _____________________________________________________________ Herve Musseau Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/ Net Almanac: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/9037/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 10:53:47 CET From: "Herve Musseau" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Etymology of months From: Fabrizio Paoli << Grr.. I would have liked to ask this after you finished discussing the Thyatian months :-) >> Hey, you still can comment on the Thyatian months. The discussion is never closed, if you can come with good ideas... << Problem is: why don't they call the last month "Omegamir"? Alpha and Omega are the first and last letter of Greek alphabet IIRC, and "from Alpha to Omega" is a common saying here in Italy. >> Because... omega doesn't also means last, contrary to alpha which means first. << >Sulamir (Flaurmont) April > ? Maybe sul = sol, the sun? In spanish (or portoguese) "sul" means south, right? However the sun and the South are somewhat linked, because the sun is brighter at midday when it is at South. >Sudmir (Yarthmont) May > ? If we use the paradigm that the Alphatian calendar also has the >elemental month, then sud would mean earth. BTW: in Italian sud means... ehm South. >> Thanks for these remarks. See my another for an idea on how this could be exploited. BTW in French too sud means south. << >Vertmir (Klarmont) June > the green month What about Vertiloch? Green-lake (loch is scottish for lake) or Green-place (loch is similar to the Italian "luogo", i.e. place). >> Well, yes, the root is used elsewhere in Alphatian words... that's why it's interesting to make those etymological researches. << >Andrumir (Fyrmont) August > ? Andro- root? I doubt that at the time of DotE they knew of Andaire, >the capital of Alphatia in the HW, so that can't be that. Anyone sees a >relation with fire? Andro is the greek root for male. This may be related with the androsphinx on the Alphatia player's guide. That sphinx is probably a symbol of Alphatia. OTOH Andro may also be linked to the fire: Andro=male=Ixion=fire. >> Yes, the sphinx, symbol of Alphatia. So this month would be the month of the Empire, and of the Emperor/Empress. Fits well with my remark about Andaire, BTW. <> Yes, but I doubt there is much consistency with Latin (for Thyatian) or Greek [actually should be Babylonian] (for Alphatia) roots for the names of months. The names rather seem to be deformation of RW words (English or Germanic roots sometimes, Latine-descended languages roots at other times) rather than actual play with the two empires' RW inspiration. Unfortunately, I might add. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 02:50:52 PST From: "Joshuan Gallidox Publishing" Subject: [MYSTARA] - HW 1015 almanac supplement: KLARMONT KLARMONT 2, AC 1015: A Rift Between Allies. Location: Toralai Territory, Neathar Lands. HW Description: Over a midday meal, Zandor and Zorok discuss the situation between the Neathar and Alphatians. Once again, Zorok proposes an attack on Haldemar. As before, Zandor opposes the assault. Zorok tries to argue the matter but is cut off by Zandor who tells him that such an assault would prove disastrous towards the Neathar. Zorok asks him to explain. Sighing, Zandor offers to demonstrate. Gathering his belongings, Zandor leads Zorok outside. Casting a spell upon himself, Zandor rises into the air. From this vantage point, he unleashes a series of spells upon the Neathar encampment. The spells destroy tents and kill and injure several Neathar, while several others are transformed in wild beasts. From above, Zandor yells down to a horrified Zorok telling him that this is just a taste of what Alphatia is capable of. Zandor then yells taunting remarks to Zorok, chiding him as a fool. Zorok cries out that he had thought that Zandor was an ally, but Zandor responds that he has used him to gain the spellbooks in Dogrel. After admiring his work for a brief moment, Zandor flies off into the distance. (See Fl. 8, Ya. 4; Kl. 11, Kl. 16.) What This Means: Zandor has gained what he wanted from Zorok and the Neathar, spellbooks. Gaining these, his patience with his host has steadily diminished. When Zorok began arguing the matter of assaulting Haldemar, Zandor decided to show Zorok the power potential of Alphatia. He had intended to cast a Fireball and destroy a tent or two. However, he became enthralled at the destruction and let loose with a full barrage of spells. Casting the majority of his offensive spells, Zandor opted to depart so he could rememorize them. Being Zandor he could not leave without chastising Zorok and citing his own superiority. His ego satisfied, Zandor then flew off to find a safe spot to rebuild his spell inventory. His course is directed by a voice in his head, that of Nyx, and it tells him to fly towards the Lands of the Gentle Folk. KLARMONT 3, AC 1015: The Advance Is Halted. Location: South of Get-ka, Nithia. HW Description: A host of Nithian soldiers meets a smaller group of invaders just south of Get-ka, on the Nithian mainland. The force is met, and after several hours of hard fighting, repulsed by the defenders. Reduced to half of their original number, the mysterious invaders pull back across the river, to take up defensive positions around the village of Get-ka. The Nithians do not find any living enemies to interrogate among the wounded. (See Ya. 12, Ya. 28; Kl. 10, Fe. 20.) What This Means: After almost a month of setbacks, the Nithian army has sufficiently recovered from the shock of the surprise attack to halt the advance of the mysterious invaders, and begin to turn the tide. The Senkhites will now be on the offensive. KLARMONT 4, AC 1015: Papalotl Saves Children. Location: Countryside near Taxutlan, Azca. HW Description: Papalotl scares away a tiger that was attacking a group of Azcan children. The beast, later aggrandized as actually being a weretiger, reportedly flees as Papalotl utters the name of Quetzalcoatl. (See , Ya. 10; Fe. 7, Fe. 16.) What This Means: Papalotl is seen by many Azcans as a protector of the youth. By scaring the beast away and calling upon Quetzalcoatl, the nameless, he establishes a religious aura deeply rooted in the Azcan folklore. KLARMONT 10, AC 1015: Siege of Menkara Broken. Location: Menkara, Nithia. HW Description: Soldiers supporting Senkha successfully relieve the defenders of Menkara, who had been trying to hold off soldiers belonging to the mysterious force that invaded many weeks before. Although the besiegers resist mightily, they cannot hold their ground, being pressed from within Menkara and from the northward-moving Nithian army. After hours of fierce fighting, in which the invaders suffer many casualties, the Nithians win the day, forcing the unknown force to the northeast of the city. As with previous battles, the Nithians do not capture any enemy soldiers. (See Ya. 28, Kl. 3; Fe. 20, Am. 19.) KLARMONT 11, AC 1015: The Angry Father. Location: Toralai Territory, Neathar Lands. HW Description: A Dino riding Neathar warrior rides into Zorok's camp. Dismounting, he rushes to report to Zorok that the ransom has been delivered to the Krugel Orcs and the hostages freed. The bad news is that Alphatians delivered the ransom. Zorok inquires about the hostages, and the rider reports that all the hostages except Zorella have been released in Neathar Lands. His daughter is believed to still be in their custody and probably in Haldemar. Zorok is livid at hearing of this; he dispatches messengers to summon his War Chiefs. (See Ya. 4, Kl. 2; Kl. 16, Kl. 19.) What This Means: After the incident with Zandor, the level of animosity that the Toralai have for the Alphatians is at an all time high. Zorok and his War Chiefs have been contemplating their next move. The news of the ransom delivery and the fact that Zorok's daughter has not been freed makes Zorok think the Alphatians have taken her hostage. He also wonders about the whereabouts of his eldest daughter, Zorena, who had been sent by Zorok to deliver the ransom. He suspects she has been killed, possibly by the Alphatians. These acts spur Zorok into action. Overcome by emotions, he wants an assault on Haldemar itself. He does recognize the enormity of the task and will studiously plan the assault. He is also wary of the Alphatians, as Zandor's demonstration did much to instill a sense of what the Alphatians are capable of. Ironically he will draw upon some of the advice Zandor had given him for the attack on the town of Dogrel. The preparations for the attack will take some planning. The possibility of Krugel Orc raids is a factor that should be remembered. Also, compared to the city of Haldemar, the defenses of Dogrel were slight; what worked there may not work in Haldemar. What The PCs Can Do: Neathar PCs can perform reconnaissance to gain information on the defenses of Haldemar. KLARMONT 16, AC 1015: Dogrel Exposed. Location: Haldemar, Alphatian Neatharum. HW Description: Three Alphatian skyships land in Haldemar. From them emerge two hundred Imperial Troops who secure Dogrel's keep and take the King of Neatharum into custody. The troops bring Dogrel to the skyships where he is presented to Commander Ezreilla. She informs Dogrel that he is under arrest for his practice of enslavement and expansion despite the doctrine established by the Imperial Court. Commander Ezreilla has Dogrel interred pending a ruling from Andaire. In the meantime, she will act as military governor. (See Kl. 2, Kl. 11; Kl. 19, Kl. 21.) What This Means: Dogrel's disregard for Empress Eriadna's policies towards the Neathar has finally been uncovered enough to warrant Imperial intervention. Presented with the evidence, Eriadna dispatches a contingent of her imperial troops to take him into custody. Though outnumbered by Haldemar's garrison, they meet little resistance. Most of the troops are aware of the practices of Dogrel, and have long anticipated this day and do not wish to oppose imperial troops. Dogrel is interred and Ezreilla assumes control of Neatharum while the matter is debated in Jafilia. KLARMONT 17, AC 1015: The Estranged Elf. Location: Hills of Iwaz, Jennite Holdings. HW Description: A Jennite patrol discovers the body of an unconscious elf. The patrol ferries the elf back to the tribal camp. The Jen are puzzled as this elf is dressed in strange clothing and carries foreign items. For two days, the Men of Jen care for the weak elf trying to restore his health. On the third day, the Jen are shocked to discover that the elf has disappeared from his bed with a small supply of provisions. Subsequent searches discover the elf's tracks. Unfortunately, the trail is lost a few miles from the Jennite camp. What This Means: The unconscious elf is a member of the Blacklore Elves. Despondent over his situation within the Blacklore Valley, he chose to flee. Unfortunately, the pampered life within the Valley lacked the foundation for survival skills needed outside of the valley. In the blind journey from the Valley he fell victim to the elements and hunger. Had he not been found by the Jennites, he surely would have perished. The Blacklore elf regained consciousness during the night. Unaware what exactly had transpired, he fled the encampment. He did have the forethought to snatch a few supplies for the road. His destination is to head back to the Blacklore Valley where things are more familiar and less dangerous. What The PCs Can Do: The obvious tact is to search to the south to try to find the elf and uncover his secret. This hook could lead to various adventure opportunities within the Great Southern Shield mountain range. Note to DMs: What becomes of this event is up to the DM. It should be noted that the outcome could include the discovery of the Blacklore Valley. This in itself could have consequences for not only the PCs but also the Blacklore Elves. KLARMONT 19, AC 1015: Dogrel's Fate Teeters. Location: Andaire, Jafilia, Alphatia. HW Description: Dogrel's fate is still under debate. There is no doubt that he acted out of accordance with Eriadna's doctrine. However, Eriadna is hesitant to pronounce any decision on the matter. (See Kl. 11, Kl. 16; Kl. 21, Fy. 5.) What This Means: Dogrel is guilty and Eriadna knows it. The problem is that she is hesitant to remove him from power on such grounds. She is truly angry at him for his disobedience and normally that would have been enough. However, her advisors have pointed out that the general opinion of the empire is that he only did what Alphatians have always done. Even Eriadna has had her regrets about making that decree based on an emotional moment. To rescind it would be like admitting she was wrong, and Eriadna is not about to do that. KLARMONT 21, AC 1015: Haldemar Assaulted. Location: Haldemar, Alphatian Neatharum. HW Description: Several thousand Neathar warriors assault the city of Haldemar. In spite of the city's defenses, several Neathar manage to scale the walls and enter the city. Luckily these are few in number and easily handled before they can do too much damage. As the assaults continue, the defenders are hard-pressed to hold them off. Commander Ezreilla calls King Dogrel and temporarily places the city garrison under his command. Assessing the situation, he dispatches troops where they are needed. Under his direction the assaults are forced back with more authority. With the battle turning into his favor, Dogrel begins assembling his own skyship troops and those of Commander Ezreilla for a counterattack. After another assault on the walls, Dogrel orders the skyships aloft. Spotting these, the Neathar break ranks and flee. The skyships pursue them, unleashing volley after volley of missile weapons into the fleeing Neathar warriors. With the Neathar abandoning the field, Dogrel signals the skyships to halt their pursuit. Under the watchful eye of the skyships overhead, troops are sent out to gather the wounded Neathar. As the prisoners are taken into custody and their wounds treated, the Neathar leader, Zorok, is discovered among their ranks. Dogrel orders that Zorok's wounds be given priority and places him under guard. He then returns command back over to Commander Ezreilla. (See Kl. 16, Kl. 19; Fy. 5, Fy. 27.) What This Means: Since Commander Ezreilla assumed the position of military governor, the defenses of Haldemar have suffered. The daily drills and regular patrols have been virtually dismissed by Ezreilla. This has allowed Zorok to assemble his warriors around Haldemar and observe the routines of the city without interference. When the Neathar attack the walls, the defenders are ill prepared to meet them efficiently. Commander Ezreilla may be inexperienced in defensive warfare, but she is no fool. She knew enough to send for Dogrel and turn the defending troops over to his direction. That decision paid off. Normally, Dogrel would have treated the attackers with a more of an "iron boot." However, with his own fate being debated and with a heavy Imperial presence on hand, he chooses to make a statement for his own defense. He halts his forces from pursuing the retreating Neathar and orders the troops to round up the wounded to have their wounds tended to. That Zorok is among the wounded is a surprise. Dogrel is beside himself that circumstances prevent him from taking some revenge upon the man who has been a thorn in his side. Disgusted, he turns the garrison back over to Commander Ezreilla and returns to his rooms. His consolation is that he proved his supremacy in the battle and Commander Ezreilla knows it. What The PCs Can Do: PCs allied to Neatharum can participate in the battle. Afterwards they can patrol the countryside looking for Neathar stragglers. PCs allied with Zorok can attempt a rescue of the Toralai Chief or some of the Neathar taken prisoner. KLARMONT 24, AC 1015: Pacifists Meet Insanity. Location: Lands of the Gentle Folk. HW Description: A group of Gentle Folk pondering the relative nature of a belt and life are interrupted by the presence of a lone figure. Turning their attentions back to their debate, the figure just stands there and stares at them. He begins yelling at them phrases denoting his grandness. This serves him little as the elves ignore him except for an occasional glance. Frustrated, the figure unleashes a Magic Missile spell at one of the elves, killing her. The other elves briefly look at the fallen elf and the figure before continuing their discussion. The figure then casts Fireball, killing two other elves. The display has little affect on the elves recognition of him. Frustrated, the figure storms off. (See Ya. 4, Kl. 2; Fe. 22, Fy. 14.) What This Means: The lone figure is Zandor. Since his parting from Zorok, he has traveled across Neatharum and entered the Lands of the Gentle Folk at the instructions of the voice of Nyx in his head. Irritated by his journey and the lack of response by the elves, he slew one to demonstrate his power. That failing to get a response, he cast another spell. Angered, he trudges off to seek a place where he can find shelter. Zandor hopes to use his powers to enslave some of the more primitive peoples in the Hollow World. He attempts this with the elves, but they ignore him. Normally, Zandor would have blasted them into submission. However, Zandor has quickly judged that the elves are not even worth being slaves. He will seek shelter in this land for now. In the meantime, he will do this world a service and slay any elves that cross his path. _________________________________ Joshuan Gallidox Publishing publisher of the Mystaran Almanac ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 04:55:48 -0800 (PST) From: Pierre-Yves Subject: [MYSTARA] - Looking for a picture + a question about weapon skills Hello everybody ! I'm playing a Gnome (male) and I'm looking for a picture to illustrate him unfortunately, it's very hard to find such pictures on the net... I've found a lot of fantasy pictures of Humans, Elves, Dwarves, but not any for Gnomes... so if you have such pictures, please let me know ! thanks a lot ! I also have a question about Weapon proficiencies... Some weapons can be used in two different ways: e.g: a dagger can be used both in close combat or can be thrown, bastard sword can be used and a 1 handed weapon or 2 handed weapon My DM says that for such weapons we have to specify the skill dagger (close compbat) or dagger (throw), bastard sword (1 hand) or bastard sword (2 hands)... and if we don't take all the skills for a weapon, we can use it in the other ways but as a 'similar weapon'... in my opinion a dagger is a basic weapon (it's the basic weapon for wizards)... and it's a pity that a 1st level wizard can't use his dagger as easy in close combat and to throw ... cos he only has 1 weapon skill and of course he still can't casts several spells... Please let me know your opinion about this ! Byyyyeee everyone ! _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 14:18:27 +0100 From: Kristian Kramer Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Looking for a picture + a question about weapon s kills I don't think it works that way. If you have proficiency in a dagger or bastard sword (or any other weapon) that can be used two or more ways, you are able to use it that way. Because if you couldn't, you wouldn't be proficient with it. That's the whole point of the proficiencies. IMC everybody can use all the possibilities of a weapon (as long as they spend at least one proficiency on the weapon). Otherwise you can use a dagger in close combat AND throw it, but with the normal penalty. Kristian "X" Kramer "Those who live by the sword, get shot by those who don't..." http://www.xanthus.demon.nl > -----Original Message----- > From: Pierre-Yves [SMTP:kyrios@rocketmail.com] > Sent: Friday, December 04, 1998 1:56 PM > To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM > Subject: [MYSTARA] - Looking for a picture + a question about weapon > skills > > > Hello everybody ! > > > > I'm playing a Gnome (male) and I'm looking for a picture to > illustrate him unfortunately, it's very hard to find such pictures > on the net... I've found a lot of fantasy pictures of Humans, Elves, > Dwarves, but not any for Gnomes... so if you have such pictures, > please let me know ! thanks a lot ! > > > > I also have a question about Weapon proficiencies... Some weapons > can be used in two different ways: > > e.g: a dagger can be used both in close combat or can be thrown, > bastard sword can be used and a 1 handed weapon or 2 handed > weapon > > My DM says that for such weapons we have to specify the skill > dagger (close compbat) or dagger (throw), bastard sword (1 hand) > or bastard sword (2 hands)... and if we don't take all the skills > for a weapon, we can use it in the other ways but as a 'similar > weapon'... in my opinion a dagger is a basic weapon (it's the > basic weapon for wizards)... and it's a pity that a 1st level > wizard can't use his dagger as easy in close combat and to throw > ... cos he only has 1 weapon skill and of course he still can't > casts several spells... > > Please let me know your opinion about this ! > > > > Byyyyeee everyone ! > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > DO YOU YAHOO!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > ************************************************************************** > * > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the > line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 14:18:42 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Looking for a picture + a question about weapon skills On Fri, 4 Dec 1998, Pierre-Yves wrote: > Hello everybody ! Hi there. :) > I'm playing a Gnome (male) and I'm looking for a picture to > illustrate him unfortunately, it's very hard to find such pictures > on the net... I've found a lot of fantasy pictures of Humans, Elves, > Dwarves, but not any for Gnomes... so if you have such pictures, > please let me know ! thanks a lot ! Gnomes arent _that_ different from Dwarves are they? Actually IMC humans cant tell the difference, although Dwarves and Gnomes claim its a vast difference. Another note, a friend of mine was looking for a picture to illustrate his Dwarf character, and found to his annoyance that all dwarves had big noses... Anyway, have you checked www.elfwood.com ? They have _alot_ of pictures. Also visit http://rpg.net they have links to a large number of other galleries... Hope this helps. > I also have a question about Weapon proficiencies... Some weapons > can be used in two different ways: > > e.g: a dagger can be used both in close combat or can be thrown, > bastard sword can be used and a 1 handed weapon or 2 handed > weapon > > My DM says that for such weapons we have to specify the skill > dagger (close compbat) or dagger (throw), bastard sword (1 hand) > or bastard sword (2 hands)... and if we don't take all the skills > for a weapon, we can use it in the other ways but as a 'similar > weapon'... in my opinion a dagger is a basic weapon (it's the > basic weapon for wizards)... and it's a pity that a 1st level > wizard can't use his dagger as easy in close combat and to throw > ... cos he only has 1 weapon skill and of course he still can't > casts several spells... AFAIK, this isnt an official AD&D rule. Its either an optional rule, or a rule your DM has made up. Which he can do, if he wants to. You can talk to your DM about it, if you think its a big problem. OTOH, why not have your Mage throw rocks in missile combat? Okay, he'll have a Thac0 of 24 and the rocks probably wont do more than 1 pt of damage, but they are free and the character can pick up as many as he likes. Another option could be to let the other guys in the party do the fighting while you dive for cover.... Hĺvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #734 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message.