mystara-digest Tuesday, January 12 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 001 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Aliens in Mystaraspace (shortened version -teaser) Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne/Rad Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne and Rad and Rafiel, oh my! (Was: What If?) Re: [MYSTARA] - WotI-?'s [MYSTARA] - Seeking info on Wendar/Essuria Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne/Rad Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne/Rad Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne/Rad Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne and Rad and Rafiel, oh my! Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne/Rad Re: [MYSTARA] - WotI-?'s [MYSTARA] - A few questions Re: [MYSTARA] - A few questions..alignment tongue + Immortal rules to 2nd ed Re: [MYSTARA] - A few questions..alignment tongue + Immortal rules to 2nd ed Re: [MYSTARA] - Paladins in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Paladins in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - I need some help..... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 18:58:00 +0100 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Aliens in Mystaraspace (shortened version -teaser) Hi Guys! Just in case this didn't come thru the first time, I'm resending it... but this time I've cut much info from the article in order to give you a teaser.. If you are interested, you can find the whole article in my homepage at this URL: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystpage.html Look in the Spelljammer & Mystara section... This article deals with a not so commonly addressed topic in Mystara, aliens, and it derives directly from discussions hold on the MML many months ago and from the work done in the Mystaraspace group by Haavard Roenne Faanes and me. I hope you'll enjoy it. Comments welcomed. DM Aliens In Mystaraspace "There are different worlds out there: worlds made of air, of fire, of water and of earth. But all of them share the same basic need: the need for heroes." - - Terari Mystaraspace Mystara is a spherical hollow planet that exists in the Prime Plane, which is basically the equivalent of our RW Universe, with many other galaxies, and as such other solar systems and other races. This is the layout of Mystaraspace according to the Old Immortal Set (and WotI didn't change anything about it since it didn't deal with it). Note that the Mystaran names have been proposed by myself as the Thyatian version of the planets and there are some elven names for the planets and constellations in CM7 as well: Real Name (Mystaran version) Sun (Ixion)¹ Mercury (Alphatia) Venus (Valerias) Earth (Mystara) Mars (Tarastia) Damocles (Asterius)² Asteroid Belt (Tears of Asterius) Jupiter (Vanya) Saturn (Khoronus) Uranus (Hel) Neptune (Protius) Pluto (Alphaks) Charon (Thanatos) Note 1: The core of the sun is formed by a large, hollow sphere, whose walls are pure black. Within it, a Fire Elemental Ruler (80 HD, 600 hp) rules over all the creature that can be found in the sun (which looks like the the Elemental Plane of Fire). See M4 for details. Note 2: Damocles is destined to explode after 1,000 AC (see old Immortal set). Its fragments form the Asteroid belt between "Jupiter" and "Mars", while the largest two pieces shoot off and become "Mercury" and "Pluto". Other pieces become the gas giants' retrograde moons. Damocles is a flatworld (semisphere) with a thriving civilization living on it. Neither Mystarans nor Damoclites know of each other, though. Aliens from the Prime Plane "The Truth is out there" - -Per Kirvik, Glantrian Spacelore expert There have been many discussions about other alien races, and in Joshuan Almanac there is even an article about the Circular Crop Cuttings phenomenon that clearly shows the ignorance of Mystarans about the existence of otherwordly civilizations. The strangest thing is that while most mages are capable of plane-travelling and know the existence of other Planes inhabited by other Creatures, they have never thought about the possibility of other cultures living in the Prime Plane, only on other planets! It seems easier for them to explore other Planes of existance rather than other planets on the same plane: you can call it a perverse effect of magic. Anyway, we do know of at least three other civilizations on the Prime which are not native of Mystara: the Damoclites, the Pyrithians, Alpha Centauri aliens, Aelosians and the inhabitants of Patera. Damoclites The Damoclites are an advanced civilization that thrive(d) on Damocles (Asterius). Nothing concrete is known about them (they were first mentioned in the old Immortal set), but many speculations want them masters of magic and psionic powers (although not to the level of Old Alphatia). They won't last much however, since Damocles is destined to blow itself up for mysterious reasons. Below are some ideas about why and when they could disappear. Scenario 1: A Space Sargasso Damocles was somehow held together magically - perhaps its civilization was remnant of the mostly-unknown-on-Mystara "Earth" and "Water" groups from Old Alphatia. One day, the planet ran into a large sargasso (no-magic areas of Mystaraspace), which cancelled the magics holding the planet together, resulting in its utter destruction. If this is true, then the asteroid that crashed on Glantri and formed the Great Crater could have been a large chunk of Damocles, perhaps holding inside itself several new species of monsters and plants. Scenario 2: The Week of No Magic Damocles boasted a high magic culture similar to that of Mystara and revered even the same immortals. However, during WotI it got caught up in a magical side effect of the Doomsady Device activation that spread all over Mystaraspace and this caused its highly magical core (which gave Damoclites incredible superpowers and magic capacities that exceeded those of Mystarans, as long as they lived on Damocles) to overload: it then exploded and created the two large asteroids that have now become Mercury and Pluto. Or maybe it was a Megalith and the combination of the surge of power from the Doomsday Device, the apparition of the Old One on the Prime and the Week of No Magic made it go crazy and ultimately it committed suicide. Pyrithians (Emerondians) The Pyrithians lived in the Pyrithian Archipelago in some other part of the Galaxy. The Emerondians are descendants of the Pyrithian culture (survivors from the destruction of their planet), but they're fairly dissimilar to their ancestors. The Pyrithians were a race of savage space pirates. A stray war band became stranded on the Known World and eventually founded the more peaceful Emerond Kingdom. They brought their unique vegetable fiber with them. The common Emerondians have forgotten about this old tie with their warlike Pyrithean ancestors. A handful of the high priests and greater druids remain as the keepers of this archaic lore. The Emerondians of Mystara are essentially farmers and gatherers. Their knowledge of agriculture and flora in general is extensive, but they remain almost totally ignorant about the ways of the sea and navigation. A peaceful people, the Emerondians are very respectful of their ancestors and laws. They benefit from an ancient culture that provides them with a rich artistic and literary background. Their philosophy is mostly druidical, but several insectlike figures are known to be part of the Emerondian pantheon of immortal patrons. These are four possible scenarios about the real history behind the Pyrithians. [...] Aliens from the Unknown "The First Directive forbids us from interfering with these creatures, Captain Riesling." - - Lt Benekander while monitoring Mystara, before the Beagle crashed Four other alien civilizations not native of Mystara but whose exact origin is unsure are known from the D&D products: the Federation, the Alphatians, the Eldars and the Adaptors. The Federation First of all we must clarify a point: the F.S.S. Beagle (a spaceship from the mysterious alien Federation) never arrived on Mystara volountarily. The adventure modules labeled "DA" and WotI shed some light on this point when they say that the Beagle's technology reacted awry with Mystara's magic and caused the ship to loose power and to crashland on Mystara in BC 4,000. The same fact that nobody went to search for the Beagle in more than four thousands years testifies that probably the Beagle didn't really choose its route but found itself stuck in this part of the Universe. Canon (Wrath of the Immortals or WotI) says that the Federation exists in another dimension (or if you don't like the word just substitute it with "alternate universe", which must not be confused with "alternate reality"), and since nobody came to retrieve the Beagle, we can hypothesize the Beagle was caught up in a rift of timespace (maybe caused by its experimental engine or other gear on board to be tested, or simply an existing rift in the continuum which the Beagle unknowingly stepped into) that transported it to Mystara. The Federation has not the power (technology) to cross dimensions (alternate universes), and may not even have the technology to cross planes of its universe of existence (after all, relying only on technology they could ignore the existance of other planes which are not scientifically explained). So the Federation is basically a universe spanning civilization very similar to Star Trek's United Federation of Planets. Another idea could be that the Federation never searched for the Beagle because it collapsed after the Beagle's departure. Maybe it was indeed located in the hub of the Galaxy and the Beagle (even traveling at spelljamming speed -100 millions of miles per day) had to travel for a lot of time before arriving to Mystaraspace (after all the existance of the chambers of "stasis" inside the Beagle and the fact the crew members were sleeping in them when it crashed suggests that they expected a long trip). In that lapse of time (years? Decades?) the federation somehow collapsed and so nobody cared about the Beagle's fate anymore. Remember that the former crewmember Benekander is an Immortal. Surely he would be capable of crossing the dimensional barriers to seek out the Federation. WotI says he has made Mystara his home. It could mean that the Federation is no more. It could even mean that Benekander's home planet is no more. The Federation was supposed to maintain internal peace and order. It is easy to assume it also served as an alliance against some outside threat such as Star Treks (OS) Klingons. Perhaps the "klingons" struck or did something to undermine the Federation's unity. Time to pull out Tale of the Comet if you want some of this to follow the Beagle to Mystara. The last idea involves again timetravel: the rift was not a dimensional but a temporal rift, so that the Federation exists somewhere else in the Prime but it hasn't sent anyone to retrieve the Beagle cause the incident hasn't happened yet on their homeworld! The Beagle could very well be coming from Mystara's own future!! Old Alphatia In BC 5,000, on the faraway world known as Old Alphatia, a group of people began its meteoric raise to civilization exploting their incredible affinity with magics. Over a millennium, they had built the most powerful empire based on magic ever known in the Multiverse: these were the pure Alphatians. Soon after, they began exploring their space and colonizing other planets, later conquering the lesser races. Among these, the Cypris culture was assimilated.. or rather ended up assimilating the Alphatian one, creating the mixed Cypri-alphatian culture that still survives today on Mystara. In BC 1,000 Old Alphatia experienced a great period of crisis and civil war erupted among the Followers of Air and Followers of Fire, two magical-philosophical factions that vied for predominance over one another. The final result of this infighting was the utter annihilation of the planet, which caused the Alphatians to migrate to another world, escaping their doom. This way the Followers of Air arrived on Mystara and colonized the eastern continent later renamed Alphatia. The Followers of Fire instead landed in the Glantrian region and established the first Flaemish Duchies. [...] Alternate Universes and Alternate Realities "I'll be back!" - - Wesley the Chronomancer Now a clarification of my distinction between "alternate universe" (or dimension) and "alternate reality" or "timeframe". The concept of alternate universe has been masterfully explained by André Martins and I am quoting his definition here for the sake of clarity: " Imagine you are a being with only 2 spatial dimensions, living in a sheet of paper. That sheet of paper would be what people usually calls a plane. Now imagine your sheet is not alone, but is in a book, with many other sheet-planes next to it. As you live only in your sheet, you wil never know about it, but there might be ways to change sheets, so that you'd go to other planes. What WotI cals a dimension, would be the whole book. Other dimensions would be other books, with many sheet-planes inside it." This fits perfectly with the concept of alternate universe. Now regarding alternate timeframe or reality, just imagine a scribe that copies the the text of a book (universe) and either volountarily or involountarily alters its contents in some parts: each time it alters its text he creates a completely different text even though it still deals with the same topic. We could also say that different universes (dimensions) are books that talk about different subjects, while different timeframes are books that deal with different versions of the same subject. So for each book we'll have different versions of it (though I don't believe infinite versions) to the point that nobody will be able to tell which one is the original one anymore. Last Note: Alien Civilizations and Immortals If Mystarans aren't alone in the Prime, it is likely the Immortals know it and have established other followers in different civilizations living on the other planets (not doing it would be fool!). Aelos is probably the most explicit example of Immortals meddling with other planets, as well as Old Alphatia. This also means there are other Immortals coming from other planets, but Mystara is so important to Immortals because of its position inside the universe (its centrum) and because it has produced the greatest number of Immortals among all the populated worlds in the Prime. "Full Impulse ahead. Navigator, engage!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:45:50 -0500 From: Andrew Toth Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne/Rad At 04:20 PM 1/10/99 EST, you wrote: >In a message dated 1999-01-10 13:31:41 Eastern Standard Time, >valerya@hotmail.com writes: Once the dust settled he >could have gone to Rad and told him that the price of >his support was that he now had to give top priority to >finding out how to stop the magic drain -- a demand he >could never have made as anything but Rad's ally. Seems to be the answer would have been fairly simple. Create another NoS that drains Radiance and produces Magic, though now it would have to drain Radiance and produce Entrophy. You could put such a NoS on the other side of the planet, which would probably slow the conversion back. Glantrians have their Radiance, Magicians have their magic, and Entrophic Immortals their entrophy back :) Beyowulf Steely Blue Dragon -==UDIC==- |/ "Ours is not to reason why, but to blow this joint before we die" -Ratrap, BeastWars *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:29:41 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne and Rad and Rafiel, oh my! (Was: What If?) At 10.40 10/01/99 PST, Jennifer Favia wrote: >Sure, if your protector is good and benevolent for >using your very lives for personal gain. Rafiel keeps >the SE like researchers use lab rats. Sorry, I can't >consider someone who dupes weak and trusting people >into following him so that he can continue his >unnecessary and dangerous research at the expense of >thousands of deformed babies as a benevolent Immortal, >regardless of what I'm told "officially." This is my >single biggest break from "canon," and something which >I will never be able to accept. To me, at least, >Rafiel is evil. Well, as evil as those people that keep lab rats in cages for scientific reaserch. Would you consider real world scientist evil? Remember. Rafiel is first and foremost a scientist and he acts like one. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@gdr.net Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:21:41 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - WotI-?'s At 16.12 10/01/99 EST, Nurvel@aol.com wrote: >Does anyonw know if someone has a document on their page describing in brief >the events in the Wrath of the Immortals.....because I have no clue when this >occurred or what happed during this time.........Mike....... There's the Complete Timeline by Daniel Boese. It lists also events from the WotI period. I think you can find it on Shawn's page. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 18:38:43 +0100 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Seeking info on Wendar/Essuria Okay, okay, I know I'm late, but... On Tue, 22 Dec 1998 18:39:35 GMT, John Polacek asked: <> Yes, gotcha! ;) Shawn Stanley (commonly known as "stan" or "the guy with the Mystara site at geocities" ;)) and I (commonly referred to as "DM" or "the Norwold guy") did write a fairly detailed timeline regarding Wendar and Denagoth (going from BC 6,000 to AC 1,010) and I'm proud to say we managed to flesh it out pretty well. You can find it at this URL (which is my homepage -shameless plug;)): http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/wendtml.html I also wrote the entry for Wendar and Denagoth in this year's Mystaran Almanac (btw, look out for the next almanac, the Avien Plains and the Lothenar Forest will be detailed) and together with the mighty Geoff Gander (also known as "Ye Olde Spawn of Canada" or "His Carnifexity") and Andres Otero we're trying to write the Wendar Gazetteer. So if you wanna join with your ideas, just contact one of us (we're all members of the list, so that shouldn't be a problem). Oh, and by the by, if you look in my homepage you can also find the best comprehensive list of Mystara related maps on the net as well as a rich list of Mystara sites all over the world... PS: Happy New Year to everyone!! :) DM Visit Marco's Mystara Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 Join the Mystara Webring at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:25:24 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne/Rad At 16.20 10/01/99 EST, Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: > >In fact, the only event of WotI that seemed likely to lead to mass >extinctions was the Shadow Elf conquest of Alfheim, as it endangered >a number of unique fairy races. I don't think the fairy races lived only in the Dreamlands and IIRC PC1 supports my theory. IIRC there's at least another group of fairies in the Isle of Dawn. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@gdr.net Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 16:33:06 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne/Rad Sharon wrote: >Ka's the LAST one you'd think would take a stand to >preserve an artifact that endangered thousands of species Precisely. Again, I'll reiterate my point that the possible extinction of all magical beings on Mystara would have been a *lot* more alarming to Ka than that of three (IIRC) "Radiance Immortals," if it all came down to that. Talk about implausible... >the boxed set actually >contradicts ITSELF, by giving us a whole, thick Codex about how all-mighty >and "super-intelligent/wise" the Immortals are supposed to be ... then >showing them behaving like a roomfull of cranky three-year-olds and totally >ignoring those vaunted powers they've got, that COULD'VE resolved the >dilemma of the Nucleus, in ten minutes' work. :-P Exactly...I cannot convey my horror upon reading the Immortals acting like kids on a playground. :-) Jenn Explore Dark Myst Manor! http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 16:35:46 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne/Rad Sharon wrote: >Don't forget the lycanthropes! With their long-standing aversion to >priests, the Flaemish would probably have been susceptible to the pandemics >of the 5th century, in any case: they've got no means to cure the >affliction, short of a Wish. But without Malachie to establish a strong >central authority among the weres, and enforce Wolf Law, the results might >have been FAR less benign than they turned out ... I had forgotten that the lycanthropic "invasion" hadn't started with the migration from Laterre! Good point! Jenn Explore Dark Myst Manor! http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 16:40:13 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne and Rad and Rafiel, oh my! Fabrizio wrote: >Well, as evil as those people that keep lab rats in cages for scientific >reaserch. >Would you consider real world scientist evil? >Remember. Rafiel is first and foremost a scientist and he acts like one. Well, I would if that scientist had set himself up as the object of the rats' worship and was masquerading as their protector/saviour, yes. Jenn Explore Dark Myst Manor! http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 20:06:00 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne/Rad In a message dated 1999-01-11 19:35:18 Eastern Standard Time, valerya@hotmail.com writes: > Exactly...I cannot convey my horror upon reading the > Immortals acting like kids on a playground. :-) Check out some Greek or Norse mythology. Those guys make Mystaran Immortals seem positively mature by comparison. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 01:42:26 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - WotI-?'s In a message dated 1/11/99 3:59:14 PM Central Standard Time, brizio@lunet.it writes: << At 16.12 10/01/99 EST, Nurvel@aol.com wrote: >Does anyonw know if someone has a document on their page describing in brief >the events in the Wrath of the Immortals.....because I have no clue when this >occurred or what happed during this time.........Mike....... There's the Complete Timeline by Daniel Boese. It lists also events from the WotI period. I think you can find it on Shawn's page. >> You guys are the best.....Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 02:07:55 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - A few questions Do any of you who run 2nd Edition use the alignment tongue still? & Has anyone out there actually converted Immortal rules to 2nd edition? I would appreciate the help....Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 00:03:58 PST From: "Jerry Hovenanian" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A few questions..alignment tongue + Immortal rules to 2nd ed On Tue, 12 Jan 1999 02:07:55 EST Mike (Nurvel@aol.com) wrote >Do any of you who run 2nd Edition use the alignment tongue still? Nope....I actually never used it. One of the sillest rules in the book. The only thing that stops me from ripping that page out of the DMG is that....wait a minute....*RIP*...ahhh better. But if one used that rule on Mystara, one might say that alignment tongues came from dragons...the languge of gold dragons turned into a LG alignment tongue that is used among clerics of different LG immortals as a way of making ones intentions known. >Has anyone out there actually converted Immortal rules to 2nd >edition? Most if not all of those rules can be used as is. The Immortal Rules are more of another gaming system with minor links to OD&D. Any thing that needs converting (lev 36 OD&D=lev 20 AD&D) can be done under standard conversion rules. Hope this helps. >>>>------------------------------------------------------------->>>> <-----<<< Jerry Hovenanian * clumsydwarf@hotmail.com >>>-----> <<<<-------------------------------------------------------------<<<< "Never in the field of human conflict, was so much owed by so many to so few." - Sir Winston Churchill - "So let's all give Microsoft a swift kick to the groin" - Personal addendum to Churchill quotation. >>>>------------------------------------------------------------->>>> ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 07:58:53 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A few questions..alignment tongue + Immortal rules to 2nd ed In a message dated 1/12/99 2:05:23 AM Central Standard Time, clumsydwarf@hotmail.com writes: << Hope this helps. >> Thanks.......Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:07:55 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Paladins in Mystara > One of the perfect paladins I have seen described, is Sparhawk, from David > Eddings. In case you haven't read those books, they are definetly worth > your time and attention. I think the first series with him is "The > Eleniad", and the second is "The Tamuli". Sparhawk is a church knight, and > acts like a True Paladin would, in my opinion. Sir Sparhawk a paladin??? I always saw the Pandion knights as a sort of avengers as they are fighting for what they think to be right, but their choice of "weapons" is questionable. Most Pandions even don't believe in the Elenium God, and Sir Kalten once said: "God hired me for fighting, not for praying!" The opposite side are the Cyrinic knights who are devout followers of the Elenium God. Of course they do much the same as the other orders but sometimes in a different way. One example: To observe the heretics of Rendor the Pandions send knights disguised as traders, while the Cyrinics found a monastery manned with knights disguised as monks. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:21:53 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Paladins in Mystara > Here are some paladins and knightly orders that my players might have met > in my games, if you are interested: Can anybody imagine the "Knights of the Darkness", a paladin's order devoted to Nyx? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:09:20 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I need some help..... > An avatar is a manifestation of a god. Ie, not the actual God, but a > physical representation of the God. In AD&D terms an avatar is a body > created and controlled by a God. According to Wrath of the Immortals, > boxed set, Immortals can have avatars (Its an optional rule though). The > main advantage of having avatars is that the Immortal can be at several > places at the same time. AFAIK, there is no maximum number of avatars > that an Immortal can have. > > Håvard > Not quite correct! An avatar must have at least 5% of the power points of the immortal, so the maximum number of avatars is 20. AFAIK, of course... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #1 ****************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, January 13 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 002 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - A Bit of Frivolity From the Admin [MYSTARA] - Misc; Website Notice and update Re: [MYSTARA] - Paladins in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Paladins in Mystara RE: [MYSTARA] - Paladins in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Paladins in Mystara RE: [MYSTARA] - Paladins in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Paladins in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Nucleus of the Spheres Re: [MYSTARA] - Paladins in Mystara ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:34:38 -0700 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - A Bit of Frivolity From the Admin Having been on Internet mailing lists for over five years now, and running two of them myself, I found this bit fo humor especially amusing. I think anyone with a bit of experience will like it as well... Q: How many Internet mail list subscribers does it take to change a light bulb? A: 1,332: 1 to change the light bulb and to post to the mail list that the light bulb has been changed. 14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and how the light bulb could have been changed differently. 7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs. 27 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about changing light bulbs. 53 to flame the spell checkers. 156 to write to the list administrator complaining about the light bulb discussion and its inappropriateness to this mail list. 41 to correct spelling in the spelling/grammar flames. 109 to post that this list is not about light bulbs and to please take this email exchange to alt.lite.bulb. 203 to demand that cross posting to alt.grammar, alt.spelling and alt.punctuation about changing light bulbs be stopped. 111 to defend the posting to this list saying that we are all use light bulbs and therefore the posts **are** relevant to this mail list. 306 to debate which method of changing light bulbs is superior, where to buy the best light bulbs, what brand of light bulbs work best for this technique, and what brands are faulty. 27 to post URLs where one can see examples of different light bulbs. 14 to post that the URLs were posted incorrectly, and to post corrected URLs. 3 to post about links they found from the URLs that are relevant to this list which makes light bulbs relevant to this list. 33 to concatenate all posts to date, then quote them including all headers and footers, and then add "Me Too". 12 to post to the list that they are unsubscribing because they cannot handle the light bulb controversy. 19 to quote the "Me Too's" to say, "Me Three". 4 to suggest that posters request the light bulb FAQ. 1 to propose new alt.change.lite.bulb newsgroup. 47 to say this is just what alt.physic.cold_fusion was meant for, leave it here. 143 votes for alt.lite.bulb. and 1 from the Admin to say that if the light bulb thread doesn't end he is gonna start banning people from the list. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com ICQ #20039817 "Well, it seems the people see you as something of an ogre, sir." "What? Why, I ought to crush them and eat their bones!" The Simpsons *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:21:54 -0800 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Misc; Website Notice and update Hello All, I just wanted to let everyone know about my website (URL is in the sig.) We've got an online auction, a monthly newsletter, and a product search service to find any RPG item that you may desire. We are always looking for new ideas, links, and suggestions to make this site even better. Essentially, if there is any RPG-related item that you may be seeking- please contact us, we will find it for you. We're establishing an online community that will include a directory of Gamers, some online games, links to every RPG site that we can find, and much more as time goes on. Thanks for your time... now we return you to your regularly scheduled game discussion... Jesse. Vanquer@EMAIL.MSN.COM http://www.gryffon.com/leta for all your role-playing needs. ICQ. 8004143 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:50:17 +1300 From: Richard Vowles Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Paladins in Mystara Jamuga Khan wrote: > > Here are some paladins and knightly orders that my players might have met > > in my games, if you are interested: > > > Can anybody imagine the "Knights of the Darkness", > a paladin's order devoted to Nyx? If Nyx is Chaotic, then they would be Avengers not Paladins. OD&D of course! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 21:57:33 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Paladins in Mystara In a message dated 1999-01-12 13:18:05 Eastern Standard Time, JamugaKhan@gmx.net writes: > Can anybody imagine the "Knights of the Darkness", > a paladin's order devoted to Nyx? I would have called them the "Night Knights", which would have earned me many boos, groans, and hisses from my players. ;) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:58:06 +0800 From: "Murphy, Jason" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Paladins in Mystara This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE3EB1.4F0AFAE0 Content-Type: text/plain One example of a perfect paladin type personality would have to be one of my all time cartoon faves The Tick. Yes I know he is a bumbling fool but his basic traits reflect a paladins bevaviour well. And if not entirely paladinic than at the very least EXTREMELY Lawful Good :). Well I think so anyway. Jason Murphy Software Engineer MITS Limited EMAIL:  HYPERLINK mailto:jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au PHONE: 08 9481 4066 FAX: 08 9481 4064 -----Original Message----- From: Jamuga Khan [SMTP:JamugaKhan@gmx.net] Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 2:08 AM To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Paladins in Mystara > One of the perfect paladins I have seen described, is Sparhawk, from David > Eddings. In case you haven't read those books, they are definetly worth > your time and attention. I think the first series with him is "The > Eleniad", and the second is "The Tamuli". Sparhawk is a church knight, and > acts like a True Paladin would, in my opinion. Sir Sparhawk a paladin??? I always saw the Pandion knights as a sort of avengers as they are fighting for what they think to be right, but their choice of "weapons" is questionable. Most Pandions even don't believe in the Elenium God, and Sir Kalten once said: "God hired me for fighting, not for praying!" The opposite side are the Cyrinic knights who are devout followers of the Elenium God. Of course they do much the same as the other orders but sometimes in a different way. One example: To observe the heretics of Rendor the Pandions send knights disguised as traders, while the Cyrinics found a monastery manned with knights disguised as monks. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE3EB1.4F0AFAE0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [MYSTARA] - Paladins in Mystara

One example of a perfect paladin type = personality would have to be one of my all time cartoon faves The Tick. = Yes I know he is a bumbling fool but his basic traits reflect a = paladins bevaviour well. And if not entirely paladinic than at the very = least EXTREMELY Lawful Good :).

Well I think so anyway.

Jason Murphy
Software Engineer
MITS Limited
EMAIL: =13 HYPERLINK mailto:jason.murphy@mitswa.co= m.au =01=14jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au=15
PHONE: 08 9481 4066
FAX: 08 9481 4064


    -----Original = Message-----
    From:   Jamuga Khan = [SMTP:JamugaKhan@gmx.net]
    Sent:   Wednesday, January 13, 1999 2:08 AM
    To:     mystara-l@MPGN.COM
    Subject:       = Re: [MYSTARA] - Paladins in = Mystara

    > One of the = perfect paladins I have seen described, is Sparhawk, from
    David
    > Eddings. In = case you haven't read those books, they are definetly worth
    > your time and = attention. I think the first series with him is "The
    > Eleniad", = and the second is "The Tamuli". Sparhawk is a church = knight,
    and
    > acts like a = True Paladin would, in my opinion.
     

    Sir Sparhawk a = paladin???

    I always saw the = Pandion knights as a sort of avengers as they are fighting
    for what they think = to be right, but their choice of "weapons" is
    questionable.

    Most Pandions even = don't believe in the Elenium God, and Sir Kalten
    once said: = "God hired me for fighting, not for praying!"

    The opposite side = are the Cyrinic knights who are devout followers
    of the Elenium God. = Of course they do much the same as the other
    orders but = sometimes in a different way.

    One example: To = observe the heretics of Rendor the Pandions send
    knights disguised = as traders, while the Cyrinics found a monastery
    manned with knights = disguised as monks.




             &nb= sp;           &nb= sp;           &nb= sp;           &nb= sp;           &nb= sp;   Jamuga Khan



    "Hear and obey, = because the Mighty Khan's word is law."
    *********************************************************= ******************
    To unsubscribe from = this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line
    'unsubscribe = mystara-l' as the body of the message.

- ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE3EB1.4F0AFAE0-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 01:57:52 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Paladins in Mystara In a message dated 1/12/99 11:02:47 PM Central Standard Time, jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au writes: << One example of a perfect paladin type personality would have to be one of my all time cartoon faves The Tick. Yes I know he is a bumbling fool but his basic traits reflect a paladins bevaviour well. And if not entirely paladinic than at the very least EXTREMELY Lawful Good :). Well I think so anyway. >> ssssssssssspppppppppppooooooooooooooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!!!!!!!! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:09:47 +0800 From: "Murphy, Jason" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Paladins in Mystara This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE3EC3.B4946210 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Or even better, Alfreds suggestion for a warcry..... "NOT THE FACE, NOT THE FACE!!!!!" :) Jason Murphy Software Engineer MITS Limited EMAIL:  HYPERLINK mailto:jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au PHONE: 08 9481 4066 FAX: 08 9481 4064 -----Original Message----- From: Nurvel@aol.com [SMTP:Nurvel@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 2:58 PM To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Paladins in Mystara In a message dated 1/12/99 11:02:47 PM Central Standard Time, jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au writes: << One example of a perfect paladin type personality would have to be one of my all time cartoon faves The Tick. Yes I know he is a bumbling fool but his basic traits reflect a paladins bevaviour well. And if not entirely paladinic than at the very least EXTREMELY Lawful Good :). Well I think so anyway. >> ssssssssssspppppppppppooooooooooooooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!!!!!!!! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE3EC3.B4946210 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [MYSTARA] - Paladins in Mystara

Or even better, Alfreds suggestion for = a warcry..... "NOT THE FACE, NOT THE FACE!!!!!" :)

Jason Murphy
Software Engineer
MITS Limited
EMAIL: =13 HYPERLINK mailto:jason.murphy@mitswa.co= m.au =01=14jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au=15
PHONE: 08 9481 4066
FAX: 08 9481 4064


    -----Original = Message-----
    From:   Nurvel@aol.com = [SMTP:Nurvel@aol.com]
    Sent:   Wednesday, January 13, 1999 2:58 PM
    To:     mystara-l@MPGN.COM
    Subject:       = Re: [MYSTARA] - Paladins in = Mystara

    In a message dated = 1/12/99 11:02:47 PM Central Standard Time,
    jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au writes:

    << One example = of a perfect paladin type personality would have to be one of
    my
     all time = cartoon faves The Tick. Yes I know he is a bumbling fool but his
     basic traits = reflect a paladins bevaviour well. And if not entirely
     paladinic = than at the very least EXTREMELY Lawful Good :).
     Well I think = so anyway.
      = >>
    ssssssssssspppppppppppooooooooooooooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnn= nnnnnnnn!!!!!!!!
    *********************************************************= ******************
    To unsubscribe from = this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line
    'unsubscribe = mystara-l' as the body of the message.

- ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE3EC3.B4946210-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:13:14 +0100 From: Alvin Gellert Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Paladins in Mystara >Sir Sparhawk a paladin??? > >I always saw the Pandion knights as a sort of avengers as they are fighting >for what they think to be right, but their choice of "weapons" is >questionable. > >Most Pandions even don't believe in the Elenium God, and Sir Kalten >once said: "God hired me for fighting, not for praying!" > >The opposite side are the Cyrinic knights who are devout followers >of the Elenium God. Of course they do much the same as the other >orders but sometimes in a different way. > >One example: To observe the heretics of Rendor the Pandions send >knights disguised as traders, while the Cyrinics found a monastery >manned with knights disguised as monks. I would call him paladin, yes :) They fight for their God and their beliefs, and I could not imagine any of them, not even Kalten, to commit an evil act of any kind. Sure, they behead a few people here and there, but they behead villains and people who are in the way of "greater good". I used Sparhawk as an example on how paladins could be, instead of the stereo-typical "I will not do anything that could even remotely be thought of as evil by the villain" type. Paladins are many things, I would say, and the most important thing for a paladin is the safety of the church and faith. If that is threatened, like it is in the eleniad books, they will do almost anything to stop that threath. And please note, Kalten doesn't say "I like fighting, so who cares about God?". Rather, he serves God in the way he can do best, which would have been clear if you had quoted the whole paragraph instead of just one line of it :) Alvin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:04:33 +0100 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Nucleus of the Spheres On Wed, 6 Jan 1999 21:59:20 -0500, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: << if the whole dispute between Rad and Ixion was about whether or not the Nucleus should be used -- knowing the detrimental effect its magic-drain would ultimately have on Mystara's magical races and life forms -- then WHY THE HECK DIDN'T THEY MOVE THE BLOODY THING OFF-PLANET!?!>> Easy example: suppose you and your sister are arguing about the permanence of a bar of plutonium in your parents' backyard. She wants to let it there to study it (ya know, she's a nuclear physicist) and to exploit it to power the whole house instead of using normal electricity (no more bills to pay!). You, on the other hand, consider it extremely dangerous because of the potential radioactive fugues and also because you, working for the National Electric Company, think your sister is doing a disservice to the country. Now, being the older sister you order her to give back the plutonium bar she has sized for herself to throw it in the nearest safe dump. She obviously refuses: hey, it doesn't happen every day to acquire a plutonium bar free of charge! Now, do you think you two will come to an agreement by parlaying (remember, you're on two completely different positions and you both are sure to be right)? Sure, you could wrestle away from her the bar and throw it away with some efforts, but suddenly her friends appear and back her up (she called them cause she knew you would have tried to bully her, that coward!). So you too call your friends, but.. hey, they're less numerous, and all of you don't really want to start a fight.. not yet at least. Other more subtle ways can be exploited, like blackmailing, treachery, spying and so on.. However, ultimately one of the two sides makes a false move and this is the classic last drop: open war ensues. This is what happened on Mystara, and frankly I think the things up to now worked very logically. It's called "escalation". <> You couldn't take it away because that would have alerted the other part, which would have come to battle you. Also, this would have broken the first rule, "No direct intereference on the Prime", and being a Hierarch you couldn't give such a bad example to your underlings: that would have meant complete chaos! << THAT would've shielded Mystara and every other populated world from the NoS's magic-drain, for centuries -- long enough for Rad & Rafiel to find a way to neutralize its harmful effects, as they'd originally planned -- and it WOULDN'T have required anyone to fight a war that killed off a big percentage of the total population of outer-world Mystara (albeit with most getting resurrected in the HW), in the process.>> Ah! But the meaning of such a feat would have been extremely distasteful to many Immortals: using the NoS to attain Immortality means owing no fealty to anybody, since there is no Patron Immortal who sponsors you to immortality. This was also one of the main things Ixion wanted to change: no sponsor to honor means the chain of command can be broken. OK, Energy Immortals are chaotic, but they still recognize hierarchy as much as Entropics do. If many mavericks were allowed among immortals, who knows what could happen.. On Rad's part, removing it from Mystara, from Glantri, would have meant loosing his followers there (since there's nothing more to look for and no more Radiance that bestows its power upon its users -remember, the NoS has a limited range, see Radiance spells in GAZ3). Also, Ixion didn't trust Rad and Rafiel (mainly for the reason stated above), so he would have never given the NoS to them to tamper with freely as you state above. It was also a matter of exerting one's power over another, a question of pride I shall say (and we know how much can the Immortals be proud and vain). <> Sure, but Rad had previously insulted the whole Council of Intrusion by denying the judgement of the Hierarchs, so why should have they worked to aid him? Simply put, I think most of the Hierarchs (except those who sided with him from the beginning) wanted to see him punished for his arrogance. <> Certainly we could assume that Ka and Alphatia tried to solve the problem using diplomacy, but they could not do much, seeing the immortals of the two factions: Valerias and Ixion to one side, Rad, Rathanos and Vanya to the other. Even Koryis with all his calm couldn't have managed it! And don't forget that among Rad's protegés were the Flaems, Alphatia's worst enemies.. As for Korotiku, I think he really enjoyed the whole thing. I tend to see him as much more mischievous and prankster than what he seems. He doesn't really want to harm others, but causing chaos for the mere pourpose of ridiculizing others suits him. And what's better of making fun of old Ixion? <> No, quite the contrary! It shows us how Immortals can be touchy and "human" in their feelings and legitimate the excalation that followed. Loki would have laughed for weeks after that council. ;) Try to view it under this perspective and you'll understand, I'm sure. And in case you don't, well, you'll feel the wrath of your Plutonic Sister! :) DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 06:40:14 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Paladins in Mystara - --------------86D7DFC6F1435B7A8A00A89D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Necromancers! Stop all that evil! Murphy, Jason wrote: > > > One example of a perfect paladin type personality would have to be one > of my all time cartoon faves The Tick. Yes I know he is a bumbling > fool but his basic traits reflect a paladins bevaviour well. And if > not entirely paladinic than at the very least EXTREMELY Lawful Good > :). > > Well I think so anyway. > > Jason Murphy > Software Engineer > MITS Limited > EMAIL:  HYPERLINK mailto:jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au > jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au > PHONE: 08 9481 4066 > FAX: 08 9481 4064 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jamuga Khan [SMTP:JamugaKhan@gmx.net] > Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 2:08 AM > To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Paladins in Mystara > > > One of the perfect paladins I have seen described, is Sparhawk, > from > David > > Eddings. In case you haven't read those books, they are > definetly worth > > your time and attention. I think the first series with him is > "The > > Eleniad", and the second is "The Tamuli". Sparhawk is a church > knight, > and > > acts like a True Paladin would, in my opinion. > > > Sir Sparhawk a paladin??? > > I always saw the Pandion knights as a sort of avengers as they > are fighting > for what they think to be right, but their choice of "weapons" is > > questionable. > > Most Pandions even don't believe in the Elenium God, and Sir > Kalten > once said: "God hired me for fighting, not for praying!" > > The opposite side are the Cyrinic knights who are devout > followers > of the Elenium God. Of course they do much the same as the other > orders but sometimes in a different way. > > One example: To observe the heretics of Rendor the Pandions send > knights disguised as traders, while the Cyrinics found a > monastery > manned with knights disguised as monks. > > > > Jamuga Khan > > > "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." > > ************************************************************************** > > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com > with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > - --------------86D7DFC6F1435B7A8A00A89D Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Necromancers!  Stop all that evil!

Murphy, Jason wrote:

 

One example of a perfect paladin type personality would have to be one of my all time cartoon faves The Tick. Yes I know he is a bumbling fool but his basic traits reflect a paladins bevaviour well. And if not entirely paladinic than at the very least EXTREMELY Lawful Good :).

Well I think so anyway.

Jason Murphy
Software Engineer
MITS Limited
EMAIL:  HYPERLINK mailto:jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au
PHONE: 08 9481 4066
FAX: 08 9481 4064

    -----Original Message-----
    From:   Jamuga Khan [SMTP:JamugaKhan@gmx.net]
    Sent:   Wednesday, January 13, 1999 2:08 AM
    To:     mystara-l@MPGN.COM
    Subject:        Re: [MYSTARA] - Paladins in Mystara

    > One of the perfect paladins I have seen described, is Sparhawk, from
    David
    > Eddings. In case you haven't read those books, they are definetly worth
    > your time and attention. I think the first series with him is "The
    > Eleniad", and the second is "The Tamuli". Sparhawk is a church knight,
    and
    > acts like a True Paladin would, in my opinion.
     

    Sir Sparhawk a paladin???

    I always saw the Pandion knights as a sort of avengers as they are fighting
    for what they think to be right, but their choice of "weapons" is
    questionable.

    Most Pandions even don't believe in the Elenium God, and Sir Kalten
    once said: "God hired me for fighting, not for praying!"

    The opposite side are the Cyrinic knights who are devout followers
    of the Elenium God. Of course they do much the same as the other
    orders but sometimes in a different way.

    One example: To observe the heretics of Rendor the Pandions send
    knights disguised as traders, while the Cyrinics found a monastery
    manned with knights disguised as monks.
     

                                                                 Jamuga Khan
     

    "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law."
    ***************************************************************************
    To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line
    'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message.

  - --------------86D7DFC6F1435B7A8A00A89D-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #2 ****************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Thursday, January 14 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 003 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Nucleus of the Spheres RE: [MYSTARA] - Paladins in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne and Rad and Rafiel, oh my! Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne/Rad Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne/Rad Re: [MYSTARA] - A few questions Re: [MYSTARA] - A few questions Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne and Rad and Rafiel, oh my! [MYSTARA] - Mystara netMags [MYSTARA] - King Stephan of Karameikos AC1016 [MYSTARA] - Regarding my entry Re: [MYSTARA] - A few questions Re: [MYSTARA] - A few questions Re: [MYSTARA] - A few questions Re: [MYSTARA] - A few questions Re: [MYSTARA] - Hey peeps Re: [MYSTARA] - A few questions Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne and Rad and Rafiel, oh my! Re: [MYSTARA] - A few questions Re: [MYSTARA] - Hey peeps Re: [MYSTARA] - Hey peeps [MYSTARA] - Belcadiz, part 4 Re: [MYSTARA] - Hey peeps ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 06:44:08 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Nucleus of the Spheres DM wrote: > On Wed, 6 Jan 1999 21:59:20 -0500, Sharon Dornhoff > wrote: > > << if the whole dispute between Rad and Ixion was about whether or not the > Nucleus should be used -- knowing the detrimental effect its magic-drain > would ultimately have on Mystara's magical races and life forms -- then WHY > THE HECK DIDN'T THEY MOVE THE BLOODY THING OFF-PLANET!?!>> > > Easy example: suppose you and your sister are arguing about the permanence > of a bar of plutonium in your parents' backyard. DM, witty and true! To add just another example, "Why didn't someone knock off Hitler when he first started doing bad things?" In retrospect that sort of thing might seem obvious...but in the heat of the moment, when YOU are the guy giving orders, you will tend to act with a bit more hesitation... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:17:18 -0500 From: Andrew Toth Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Paladins in Mystara At 12:58 PM 1/13/99 +0800, you wrote: >One example of a perfect paladin type personality would have to be one of my >all time cartoon faves The Tick. Yes I know he is a bumbling fool but his >basic traits reflect a paladins bevaviour well. And if not entirely >paladinic than at the very least EXTREMELY Lawful Good :). >Well I think so anyway. I say to you villians....KNOCK OFF THE EVIL! Beyowulf Steely Blue Dragon -==UDIC==- |/ "Ours is not to reason why, but to blow this joint before we die" -Ratrap, BeastWars *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:01:56 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne and Rad and Rafiel, oh my! At 16.40 11/01/99 PST, Jennifer Favia wrote: >Well, I would if that scientist had set himself up as >the object of the rats' worship and was masquerading as >their protector/saviour, yes. Well. Imagine to be a scientist. Would you bother to explain what you're doing to a bunch of rats, or would you rather try to set yourself uo as their protector and go on with your experiments? Rafiel is an Immortal. He probably consider mortals to be an inferior, maybe stupid, race. Setting himself as their patron Immortal is probably simpler than explaining them the laws of nuclear physics. It's something not unlike those movies/novels where someone from a technologically advanced society suddenly finds himself among a primitive group of savage people. Because of his techno tricks he's considered a god and worshipped by the tribe. Anyway he want to get back home and so he needs to repair his spacecraft/aircraft/technomachine. Do you think he'll explain the natives how his machine works, or would he rather use his godlike status to "force" them to help him, even if this can be dangerous for the natives? ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com brizio@gdr.net DM in City Of The Stars - Mystaran Almanac Assistant Student of Aerospace Enginnering - ICQ #1688817 Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:47:13 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne/Rad At 01.36 11/01/99 -0500, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: >It's not the war, that endangered millions of people and thousands of >species: it's the Nucleus. Had Rad's dangerous experiments continued >unopposed, the NoS would have drained so much of Mystara's magic that the >various magical races and creatures (including the shadow elves, which >makes Rafiel's support of Rad also unlikely :-P) would sicken and die out, >just as they fell ill during the Week Without Magic. This is even listed >on the tables in Gaz3 and G:KoM, as happening as soon as a substantial >number of the artifact's "rads" of energy have been used up. But did the Immortals (before WotI) know that the NoS may have endangered several magical races or were they only concerned about the drain of Mystara's magic? I was quite surprised in seeing the effects of the Week Without Magic on elves. I thought they were a "standard" race, different from humans as dogs are different from cats. What about Rafiel supporting Rad in order to find a way to avoid the drain of magic? After all, without WotI, magic would have been drained very slowly and there would have been plenty of time to save all magical races and creatures. Remember, Rafiel is a scientist. He prefers to understand _how_ something works and _why_ it is dangerous, rather than simply destroy it because it can be dangerous. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com brizio@gdr.net DM in City Of The Stars - Mystaran Almanac Assistant Student of Aerospace Enginnering - ICQ #1688817 Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:24:44 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne/Rad >Check out some Greek or Norse mythology. Those guys make >Mystaran Immortals seem positively mature by comparison. Yeah, but one might expect a little more elevated behaviour from immortals/deities in a fantasy game...:-) Jenn Explore Dark Myst Manor! http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:28:31 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A few questions >Do any of you who run 2nd Edition use the alignment tongue still? & Has >anyone out there actually converted Immortal rules to 2nd edition? I would >appreciate the help....Mike I believe that Tim (galwylin) has converted a few to AD&D rules. Aleksei (solmyr) is converting the Immortals to Faiths&Avatars (from AD&D Forgotten Realms) terms, but I think he's keeping OD&D rules. Concerning alignment language, we play with AD&D 2nd edition rules, and that does not include alignment language. Although I pick and choose many OD&D rules and skills and include them into our "house rules," I've never used alignment language. It just never made uch sense to me. Jenn Explore Dark Myst Manor! http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:49:29 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A few questions In a message dated 1/13/99 12:30:12 PM Central Standard Time, valerya@hotmail.com writes: << Has >anyone out there actually converted Immortal rules to 2nd edition? I would >> Thanks Jenn......what I meant about the Immortal rules though is for playing Immortals not just the stats for them. That's not a big issue, I have done that with a few. My clerics are just clerics. Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:52:25 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne and Rad and Rafiel, oh my! Fabirzio wrote: >Rafiel is an Immortal. He probably consider mortals to be an inferior, >maybe stupid, race. >Setting himself as their patron Immortal is probably simpler than >explaining them the laws of nuclear physics. But this isn't about a science lesson, so it really has nothing at all to do with whether Rafiel thinks that he should explain the laws of nuclear physics to the SE. This is about faith and religion and deception...Whether he thinks that his "chosen people" are inferior or stupid or whatever, it is still immoral for him to use them in such a destructive manner. I understand that you are arguing that since Rafiel is a scientist, he is detached and ultimately rational, and probably believes that the end (*his* end) suits any means. *However*, that is not moral justification for what he does to the elves. Additionally, what must one think of an Immortal who sees mortals as unworthy of life (since he is ultimately depriving them and their children of their very lives)...I might expect that from a) a god, who was never mortal, or b) an Entropic Immortal, but not someone who is supposedly a "benevolent" force. >Do you think he'll >explain the natives how his machine works, or would he rather use his >godlike status to "force" them to help him, even if this can be dangerous >for the natives? My point precisely...This is not respectable behaviour, no matter what the goal. Jenn Explore Dark Myst Manor! http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:36:29 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mystara netMags Where can i get my hands on those at? Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:36:29 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - King Stephan of Karameikos AC1016 Almanac AC1016 Eirmont 15, AC1016 Location: Mirros, Karameikos Description: Last night King Stephan had a very weird dream. The setting for this dream was during The Coming of the Beast-Men, and the king was living out the life of King Halav. The dream seemed to last for a lifetime in the mind of King Stephan. When he awoke, Stephan couldn't believe the realism of the dream. He refrains from telling anyone of this dream, not even Terari. He is afraid of what the dreams possible meaning. What this means: The Immortal Halav made the dream, or vision, occur that King Stephan had on Eirmont 14. This is "Phase One" of Halav's plan to let the King of Karameikos know the truth about his exist and the rumors of him supposedly being the reincarnation of Halav. Halav plans to send the King more visions before ariving in person to tell him the truth. Also, King Stephan will seem preoccupied to others for about the next week. He can vividly remember most of the events that took place in the dream, even up to the point where King Halav embraces the King of the Beast-Men in death at the Volaga River. King Stephan feels at times like he actually lived out the dream he had. P.S. if this interferes with previously create events for the year...let me know..I will change the date....Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:49:13 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Regarding my entry If you all like this I will present more ideas and the rest of that idea for the year of AC1016..........Let me know ...Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:02:06 PST From: "Timothy R. Haney" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A few questions >From: "Jennifer Favia" > >I believe that Tim (galwylin) has converted a few to >AD&D rules. Afraid I haven't had much chance to work on anything lately. One thing I'd suggest in converting to AD&D is to develop your priesthoods and fit the Immortals to that. Timothy R. Haney The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:05:44 PST From: "Timothy R. Haney" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A few questions >From: Nurvel@aol.com > >Thanks Jenn......what I meant about the Immortal rules though is for playing >Immortals not just the stats for them. That's not a big issue, I have done >that with a few. My clerics are just clerics. Mike I haven't ever seen anything like that. You may as well use the Immortal rules. Timothy R. Haney The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:57:26 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A few questions In a message dated 1/13/99 5:07:16 PM Central Standard Time, galwylin@hotmail.com writes: << I haven't ever seen anything like that. You may as well use the Immortal rules. Timothy R. Haney >> I wish I had them :). But I don't. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:19:19 PST From: "Jerry Hovenanian" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A few questions On Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:57:26 EST Nurvel@aol.com wrote... >I wish I had them :). But I don't. You can get the Wrath of the Immortals, new in the box, for not a lot of money at http://www.dragontrove.com/basic.html. It has Immortal rules in it. You don't even need a credit card. >>>>------------------------------------------------------------->>>> <-----<<< Jerry Hovenanian * clumsydwarf@hotmail.com >>>-----> <<<<-------------------------------------------------------------<<<< "Never in the field of human conflict, was so much owed by so many to so few." - Sir Winston Churchill - "So let's all give Microsoft a swift kick to the groin" - Personal addendum to Churchill quotation. >>>>------------------------------------------------------------->>>> ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 00:43:19 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Hey peeps If you read both GAZ's, Alfheim and Shadow Elves, the alignment of the Shadow Elf as a race would be Lawful Neutral (AD&D) or just plain Lawful (OD&D). Rafiel set down the Refuge of the Stone as the hard and fast rules for the Shadow Elves to live and survive by, with little leeway for deviation. Living by a hard set of rules makes the Elves Below Lawful in general, and their care of only trying to survive their dismal existance (before their return to the surface) makes then generally Neutral, hence Lawful Neutral. Of course, just like in real life, everyone has their own perspective on things and how they are percieved by others when trying to acheive their goals. Arminath *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 01:27:43 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A few questions In a message dated 1999-01-13 13:30:12 Eastern Standard Time, valerya@hotmail.com writes: > Concerning alignment language, we play with AD&D 2nd > edition rules, and that does not include alignment > language. Although I pick and choose many OD&D rules > and skills and include them into our "house rules," > I've never used alignment language. It just never made > uch sense to me. Of course I should mention a bit of fun that I had with alignment languages in a campaign that included an "immigrant" from an AD&D world. I associated various Known World languages with the alignment languages that character was familiar with, and managed to thoroughly confuse her when the first native she met spoke to her in "Chaotic Evil" and then "Lawful Good". And that native turned out NOT to be an assassin.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 01:27:45 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne and Rad and Rafiel, oh my! In a message dated 1999-01-13 14:02:24 Eastern Standard Time, valerya@hotmail.com writes: > This is about faith and religion and > deception...Whether he thinks that his "chosen people" > are inferior or stupid or whatever, it is still immoral > for him to use them in such a destructive manner. I > understand that you are arguing that since Rafiel is a > scientist, he is detached and ultimately rational, and > probably believes that the end (*his* end) suits any > means. *However*, that is not moral justification for > what he does to the elves. One point that is not clear -- is he the cause of their suffering, or should their suffering be taken as a "given" to which he reacts? If Rafiel is the cause of Shadow Elf suffering, then there is no doubt about it -- he is Evil. But if the Shadow Elves were suffering from birth defects and other problems before he came across them, then it might be argued that he really is helping them as well as the goblinoid races who find and adopt the deformed Shadow Elf infants. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:03:00 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A few questions That Clumsysmurf.....lol...You always help me out.....Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:04:16 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Hey peeps In a message dated 1/13/99 11:56:28 PM Central Standard Time, Arminath@aol.com writes: << If you read both GAZ's, Alfheim and Shadow Elves, the alignment of the Shadow Elf as a race would be Lawful Neutral (AD&D) or just plain Lawful (OD&D). Rafiel set down the Refuge of the Stone as the hard and fast rules for the Shadow Elves to live and survive by, with little leeway for deviation. Living by a hard set of rules makes the Elves Below Lawful in general, and their care of only trying to survive their dismal existance (before their return to the surface) makes then generally Neutral, hence Lawful Neutral. Of course, just like in real life, everyone has their own perspective on things and how they are percieved by others when trying to acheive their goals. Arminath >> Im so confused...lol......people keep saying different things.......aaaaaaahhhhhhhh *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 00:22:41 PST From: "Jerry Hovenanian" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Hey peeps On Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:04:16 EST Nurvel@aol.com wrote... >Im so confused...lol......people keep saying different >things.......aaaaaaahhhhhhhh Well Here is my input....the reason the Shadow Elves are sooo hard to peg down is that they are True Neutral. A good example of this is that at the end of WotI there is a random encounter for Shadow Elves. They were hunting down Alfhiem refugees...but ignore non-elves...and may even help the party find the person they are looking for. As far as Good-Evil goes they will go after refugees but not strangers... Nueutral. Law-Chaos...they have an organized government....but it has splintering and political in-fighting....Neutral. This is how see it. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:31:35 +0200 (EET) From: Harri M{ki Subject: [MYSTARA] - Belcadiz, part 4 Don Alfonso de Belcadiz Don Alfonso was 257-years old when he became the Prince of Belcadiz. He was in many ways opposite of his elder brother. He was as typical male dark elf as Don Fernando was untypical. In his younger days Don Alfonso was quick-tempered, easily insulted, always waving his rapier at the slightest insults. Now he has somewhat calmed down. But anyhow he was more a warrior than diplomat or administrator as his brother had been. Moreover he had four living child so continuity was secured. In his younger days Don Alfonso had lead the elven warriors in retaliations against humanoids and northern neighbours when necessary. He has also been warleader of the elven troops first in the war against the Flaems in 780's and then against Halzunthram. In those years rests his claim as greatest Belcadizian warrior ever. After wars he had been his brothers deputy first in ruling Alhambra as Marquisate and then as Principality. After Don Fernando had broken relations with Erewan elves, it was Don Alfonso who realized the oppression of Erewans. He ruled Erewan part of the Principality like a military dictator for 14 years. In fact Don Alfonso had never liked Erewans, who he considered as intruders. After Don Alfonso became a Prince he heard from the clan's sage Don Rodrigo de Belcadiz that his nephew was still alive. He was surprised but could visit him only after Don Fernando's death. His detestation for Erewan elves was only grown when he saw the condition of Don Carlo. He blamed them for polluting the Belcadizian blood and immediately forbade marriages between two elven groups. He never visited Don Carlo again and even forbade Don Rodrigo to speak of him. Only reason for Don Carlo surviving further was because of Dona Leontina, Don Alfonso's wife took a pity of him and first with Don Rodrigo and then with his son Don Alejandro took care of him. After taking a seat in the Council, Don Alfonso found for his great surprise that he was elected as a new Supreme Judge. Previous judge Antonie Vlaardoen V was chosen as a new Grand Master and there was no one else who wanted the position. Don Alfonso was not happy with the situation either, he had hoped to become a Viceroy of some fort, preferably Monteleone. But he realized the advantages of the position and accepted it. He knew that with that position he could harass Erewan elves in Glantri City "legally". That aside you can say that Don Alfonso was a good Supreme Judge, he could take a neutral position in human politics, he also relaxed the laws somewhat as his Chaotic nature demanded. Don Alfonso also had one domestic problem like his brother had also had. His problem was his oldest son Don Hippolito. From the beginning Don Alfonso saw that Don Hippolito would be a disaster as ruler. Dona Leontina had a same opinion. But they didn't agree about who to choose. They also agreed that their youngest son Don Ricardo was not capable either. Dona Leontina's favourite was second son Don Diego, Don Alfonso's their only daughter Dona Carnelia with his husband Don Miguel. In AC 985 Don Alfonso at last decided to settle the question. He called his family together and announced his decision to pass Don Hippolito. He demanded everyone to swear to honour this decision after his death. Don Hippolito understandably was furious for this and left immediately. He put the question of choosing between Dona Carnelia and Don Diego before the others. Don Ricardo immediately made known his support for his brother. But then came a surprise when Don Diego gallantly announced that he would support his sister and his husband Don Miguel to avoid more family quarrels. Nobody in that time expected that Don Alfonso's death would come in six years. Don Alfonso's hot-temper cost him his life. In Ac 912 he was challenged to fight in court session and without much pondering he accepted the challenge from an unknown stranger. Only this time he met better rapierist than he himself was. Don Alfonso was 336-years old when he died heart pierced in the middle of Alexander-Plaza. His killer vanished immediately after deed was done. Dona Carnelia de Belcadiz Everyone was shocked when they heard about Don AlfonsoŽs death. It was so sudden and unexpected. Dona Carnelia tried immediately called his husband Don Miguel back from the mountain expedition, but get no answer. After couple of weeks she realized that she was now sole ruler of Alhambra at the age of 79. She was as shocked as his father when she was told about Don Carlo, now 133-years old "cretin". Dona Carnelia has keep his cousins existence as secret as his father. Most of the family have a some kind of a feeling that there is some great secret that is not told to them. Only Dona Carnelia, Dona Leontina, clan's sage Don Alejandro and clan's treekeeper Victoria know Don Carlos identity. Summary Miguel de Belcadiz b.? d.565 Manuel de Belcadiz b.? d.717 Fernando de Belcadiz b.581 d.912 First Marquis of Alhambra First Prince of Alhambra Chamberlain of the Land 829-896 Grand Master of the School of Magic 896-912 Alfonso de Belcadiz b.655 d.991 Supreme Judge of the Council 912-991 Carnelia de Belcadiz b.812 Vice-Queen of Monteleone 991- t:Harri Mäki hihama@uta.fi *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 06:34:12 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Hey peeps Aye, ye all have different perspectives, just like the races of my world. Small universe, no? Arminath *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #3 ****************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Thursday, January 14 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 004 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA: KARAMEIKOS - MISC - Adventures Re: [MYSTARA] - Hey peeps [MYSTARA] - Wanted: Wrath of the Immortals etc. Re: [MYSTARA] - Wanted: Wrath of the Immortals etc. Re: [MYSTARA] - Wanted: Wrath of the Immortals etc. Re: [MYSTARA] - A few questions Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne and Rad and Rafiel, oh my! Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel Re: [MYSTARA] - Wanted: Wrath of the Immortals etc. Re: [MYSTARA] - Paladins in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Paladins in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Paladins in Mystara [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystara netMags Re: [MYSTARA] - A few questions Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel Re: [MYSTARA] - Paladins in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Wanted: Wrath of the Immortals etc. Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA: KARAMEIKOS - MISC - Adventures [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Living Cities Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystara netMags [MYSTARA] - D&D product ratings Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel Re: [MYSTARA] - Paladins in Mystara ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:37:55 +1100 (EST) From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" Subject: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA: KARAMEIKOS - MISC - Adventures Hi, we're playing (one of us as DM) in and around Threshold.We have just about all the D&D stuff plus the AD&D Karameikos and Glantri boxes and the MM appendix and three adventures. The game is chugging along well but the Hutaakans will soon possibly make an appearance. What I want to do is tie in a Hutaakan valley (small enclave though), Wendar hinterlands, Drenagoth and the Saga of the Shadow Lord post-adventure events such as the possible rise of a new Shadow Lord, and get some adventures going northward of Threshold, including hooks to tie it all together in the end. Any ideas from anyone? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 06:47:37 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Hey peeps In a message dated 1/14/99 3:24:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, clumsydwarf@hotmail.com writes: << Well Here is my input....the reason the Shadow Elves are sooo hard to peg down is that they are True Neutral. A good example of this is that at the end of WotI there is a random encounter for Shadow Elves. They were hunting down Alfhiem refugees...but ignore non-elves...and may even help the party find the person they are looking for. As far as Good-Evil goes they will go after refugees but not strangers... Nueutral. Law-Chaos...they have an organized government....but it has splintering and political in-fighting....Neutral. This is how see it. >> To outsiders, mayhaps. But in the example just given, the Elves in question are on a mission and following it to the letter (besides the fact that the World Above is daunting to someone that's never seen the open sky before) which makes for a Lawful Alignment. Even after the events described in WotI, the Shadow Elves are more in the middle ground between Good and Evil. They attacked what we consider a bunch of innocent elves, but if the events are read carefully, the Alfhiemers basically told the Shadow Elves (who came with peaceful intentions) to stay lost in their dirt hole and don't come back or else. That's the greatest slap in the face an elf could make - telling another elf that they aren't good enough to come back into the fold and live in the nature that spawned their race eons ago. The shadow elves, in a very organized manner drove the "evil" Alfheimers out and reclaimed their place. They didn't spread the fight to other innocents, like the Darokin or the Wendar Elves, just to those that persecuted them. That's why they help the humans in the aforementioned encounter, they are generally Lawful Neutral. Remember, the general tendencies of a race are just general, that's why there are splinter groups! Arminath *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:43:03 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: [MYSTARA] - Wanted: Wrath of the Immortals etc. (Sorry 'bout spamming the list, but after rummaging around the Web for ages) I'd really like to buy following, if anyone has spare copies or knows from where to obtain them: The Elves of the Alfheim Mark of Amber Castle Amber The Wrath of the Immortals It is _really_ hard to get these in Finland where I live, I have hunted the Elves for five years (or something) now... - Markus Montola, GM:ing in Glantri for third year now... ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 06:07:09 PST From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wanted: Wrath of the Immortals etc. Hi > >(Sorry 'bout spamming the list, but after rummaging around the Web for >ages) > >I'd really like to buy following, if anyone has spare copies or knows >from where to obtain them: > > The Elves of the Alfheim > Mark of Amber > Castle Amber > The Wrath of the Immortals > Are you interested in Castle Amber in French ? Marc-Antoine GUIDAULT à mag@mel.teamlog.fr ou chasnans@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/7837 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:31:26 EST From: Magesmiley@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wanted: Wrath of the Immortals etc. In a message dated 1/14/99 5:59:06 AM Pacific Standard Time, mmontola@cc.hut.fi writes: << (Sorry 'bout spamming the list, but after rummaging around the Web for ages) I'd really like to buy following, if anyone has spare copies or knows from where to obtain them: The Elves of the Alfheim Mark of Amber Castle Amber The Wrath of the Immortals It is _really_ hard to get these in Finland where I live, I have hunted the Elves for five years (or something) now... - Markus Montola, GM:ing in Glantri for third year now... >> I saw a new copy of WOTI at a local game store recently, plus some other Mystara items. They may also have Mark of Amber - you can ask. They will ship so you might give them a call. Games Plus (425) 485-7295. - -Magesmiley *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 18:19:01 +0200 From: "Solmyr of the Azure Star" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A few questions >I believe that Tim (galwylin) has converted a few to >AD&D rules. Aleksei (solmyr) is converting the >Immortals to Faiths&Avatars (from AD&D Forgotten >Realms) terms, but I think he's keeping OD&D rules. > Actually, I'm utilizing both sets of rules. I classify the Immortals both by OD&D (Initiate, Temporal, etc.) and AD&D (Demipower, Lesser Power, etc.) rules. I also specify their home planes according to AD&D Planescape cosmology. And the unique spells are described in the extended AD&D terms (though they are usable with OD&D as-is). ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star aka Azure Star Dragon solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 13:02:17 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne and Rad and Rafiel, oh my! On Thu, 14 Jan 1999 Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: > But if the Shadow Elves were suffering from birth > defects and other problems before he came across > them, then it might be argued that he really is > helping them as well as the goblinoid races who > find and adopt the deformed Shadow Elf infants. Because of the radiation effects of the exploded Blackmoor device which drove the Elves underground, some elves were born with wild birth defects. These defects happened before Rafiel found the elves and formed the refuge of stone. Rafiel is NOT evil, in fact he is an extreme pacifist. He wants the SE's to think him harsh, (thus the "leave malformed babies in the wilderness" law) but what the elves don't know is that those same kids are given to Orc and what-not families. Rafiel always provides. Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:04:45 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel Kaviyd wrote: >One point that is not clear -- is he the cause >of their suffering, or should their suffering >be taken as a "given" to which he reacts? > >If Rafiel is the cause of Shadow Elf suffering, >then there is no doubt about it -- he is Evil. > >But if the Shadow Elves were suffering from birth >defects and other problems before he came across >them, then it might be argued that he really is >helping them as well as the goblinoid races who >find and adopt the deformed Shadow Elf infants. They were doubtlessly suffering from birth defects prior to his finding them, since they were fleeing the effects of the second cataclysm. *But* those defects would have ended long ago. Rafiel took advantage of their being "used to" (and I use that very loosely) their suffering in order to pursue his experiment. The cause of SE deformities now is the Radiance/soul crystals, which are the work of Rafiel. Jenn Explore Dark Myst Manor! http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 13:58:05 -0500 From: Andrew Toth Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wanted: Wrath of the Immortals etc. At 03:43 PM 1/14/99 +0200, you wrote: > >I have hunted the Elves for five years (or something) now... > Do you mount their ears on the wall as trophies? ;) Sorry, couldn't resist.. Beyowulf Steely Blue Dragon -==UDIC==- |/ "Ours is not to reason why, but to blow this joint before we die" -Ratrap, BeastWars *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 19:29:06 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Paladins in Mystara > > Can anybody imagine the "Knights of the Darkness", > > a paladin's order devoted to Nyx? > > If Nyx is Chaotic, then they would be Avengers not Paladins. OD&D of course! Nyx is neutral, but her clerics can have all alignments. So chaotic fighters can become avengers of Nyx, and lawful fighters can become paladins of Nyx. Of course both group are not on the best terms - too different philosophies. (Or should I use the German word "Weltanschauung"?) Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 19:30:28 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Paladins in Mystara > > Can anybody imagine the "Knights of the Darkness", > > a paladin's order devoted to Nyx? > > I would have called them the "Night Knights", which would > have earned me many boos, groans, and hisses from my > players. ;) Well, what about two concurring groups of paladins? Or two groups in distant countries? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 19:46:09 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Paladins in Mystara > I would call him paladin, yes :) They fight for their God and their > beliefs, and I could not imagine any of them, not even Kalten, to commit an > evil act of any kind. Sure, they behead a few people here and there, but > they behead villains and people who are in the way of "greater good". I > used Sparhawk as an example on how paladins could be, instead of the > stereo-typical "I will not do anything that could even remotely be thought > of as evil by the villain" type. Paladins are many things, I would say, and > the most important thing for a paladin is the safety of the church and > faith. If that is threatened, like it is in the eleniad books, they will do > almost anything to stop that threath. And please note, Kalten doesn't say > "I like fighting, so who cares about God?". Rather, he serves God in the > way he can do best, which would have been clear if you had quoted the whole > paragraph instead of just one line of it :) > > Alvin First, I'm not especially a fan of quotin all and everything as I hate it to reread all those earlier mails. The point is that the the Pandion knights are NOT fighting for their God. They don't know His name and the most knights are not very pious. The believe that He exists (well, at least ONE knights KNOWS that the Elenium God really exists), but this is a matter of the church. Instead they are fighting for the welfare of the Elenium church, the Elenium people and, as it is their home, for the kingdom of Elenium. In the choice of the measures they are very scrupulous. IME they are chaotic good avengers. (Of course the example is not very exact as their powers do not come from the Elenium God, but from one of the Thousand Younger Gods of Styricum.) Another example: Clerics can give commands to church knights, and those have to obey. Let's assume that this command were against the will of the knight and contradicting his actual mission. A Cyrinic knight would pray to God that he would be able to fulfill his original mission. A Pandion knight would search another cleric who could give him an order to proceed with his mission... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 06:06:05 +1100 From: stan Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystara netMags >Where can i get my hands on those at? Mike The netMAG homepage has been defunct for quite a while now. Articles from the netMAGs like just about every other Mystaran article is available on my homepage. I've got personal copies of the netMAGs if you feel a particular need for them. stan http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:40:55 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A few questions In a message dated 1/14/99 11:04:42 AM Central Standard Time, solmyr@kolumbus.fi writes: << Actually, I'm utilizing both sets of rules. I classify the Immortals both by OD&D (Initiate, Temporal, etc.) and AD&D (Demipower, Lesser Power, etc.) rules. I also specify their home planes according to AD&D Planescape cosmology. And the unique spells are described in the extended AD&D terms (though they are usable with OD&D as-is). >> Thats alot of work.......Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:21:40 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel On Thu, 14 Jan 1999, Jennifer Favia wrote: > cause of SE deformities now is the Radiance/soul > crystals, which are the work of Rafiel. I'll have to look up the reference in the SE gaz, but I'm sure that the Soul crystals are NOT Rafiel's work. I think that they were natural radioactive stones. Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:22:37 +0100 From: Alvin Gellert Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Paladins in Mystara >The point is that the the Pandion knights are NOT fighting for their >God. They don't know His name and the most knights are not very pious. >The believe that He exists (well, at least ONE knights KNOWS that the >Elenium God really exists), but this is a matter of the church. What is the name of the christian God, in the protestantic faith? Point is, noone knows either, and we still had what I would call paladins....As I judge from the books, as many of the pandions are pious as were in RL. A lot were, but there would always be "rotten apples". >Instead they are fighting for the welfare of the Elenium church, the >Elenium people and, as it is their home, for the kingdom of Elenium. In the >choice >of the measures they are very scrupulous. IME they are chaotic good >avengers. In fighting for the church and the religion, which should be the same as the God, they are paladins, I am not sure how you get this to be avengers... >Another example: Clerics can give commands to church knights, and >those have to obey. Let's assume that this command were against the >will of the knight and contradicting his actual mission. A Cyrinic knight >would pray to God that he would be able to fulfill his original mission. >A Pandion knight would search another cleric who could give him an >order to proceed with his mission... No, and yes. They do so in the books, agreed. But even then they state that it is not entirely correct, and the only reason that they do it is because their original mission, to find the Bhelliom, is the most important thing in the world right now. They quite directly say in the books that only Sparhawk and Kalten would be rude enough to go and try to find another cleric to give them orders to proceed with the original mission. It is hardly the entire pandion order. Alvin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:30:10 +1300 From: Richard Vowles Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wanted: Wrath of the Immortals etc. Dragon Trove has the last three of what you want. (www.dragontrove.com) Markus Olavi Montola wrote: > (Sorry 'bout spamming the list, but after rummaging around the Web for > ages) > > I'd really like to buy following, if anyone has spare copies or knows > from where to obtain them: > > The Elves of the Alfheim > Mark of Amber > Castle Amber > The Wrath of the Immortals > > It is _really_ hard to get these in Finland where I live, I have hunted > the Elves for five years (or something) now... - -- Richard Vowles, Senior Systems Engineer, Inprise New Zealand, MAIL: rvowles@inprise.com, rvowles@sew.co.nz HTTP: The Esperanto Group, www.esperanto.org.nz [my messages contain my own opinions, not those of my employer] *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:53:07 -0700 (MST) From: John Hare Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA: KARAMEIKOS - MISC - Adventures > What I want to do is tie in a Hutaakan valley (small enclave though), > Wendar hinterlands, Drenagoth and the Saga of the Shadow Lord > post-adventure events such as the possible rise of a new Shadow Lord, and > get some adventures going northward of Threshold, including hooks to tie > it all together in the end. > > Any ideas from anyone? From the latter three ideas you need to get the characters north some how. Now one possibility is that if the Hutaakan valley is in Karameikos that they need some ancient device (Nithian) and they have a rough idea on where it is (Northern Reaches), however the tomb where it was located was raided and sold to a merchant heading to Wendar. From there the merchant could have been killed in an ambush and the item dragged into Denagoth. Just a suggestion John Hare "If death is inevitable, you might as well lie back and enjoy it." -Solomon Short _A Season for Slaughter_ John Hare *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:36:19 -0500 (EST) From: Frederic Ferro Subject: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Living Cities Hi, everyone (and happy new year!) Someone mentioned an article by Bruce Heard about "living cities" in the north of the Known World. Is it the same as the moving grounds and "nodes" of magical energies Bruce talked about? Where can I find infos about that? IIRC there is an URL somewhere but I cannot find it on Marco Dalmonte's Links page (although it certainly *is* there, somewhere). The concept seems very interesting. The French RPG players may remember the fantasy City of Laelith (in the magazine Casus Belli) whose "God-King" could control all the stones of the buildings thanks to a living hybrid of stone and flesh. The Talislanta world has already Gargoyle cities which can grow like a "hive" or an organism. Describing collectively a Living City could be a fascinating Net project, like the RPGA Ravensbluff or the Greyhawk Dyvers. :-) Anacharsis - -- mailto:ferro@princeton.edu http://www.princeton.edu/~ferro http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/1054 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 17:07:42 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystara netMags In a message dated 1/14/99 1:17:56 PM Central Standard Time, shawn@leme.anu.edu.au writes: << The netMAG homepage has been defunct for quite a while now. Articles from the netMAGs like just about every other Mystaran article is available on my homepage. I've got personal copies of the netMAGs if you feel a particular need for them. >> Thanks Shawn. Actually I have gotten most of my Mystara stuff from your page. It will take me forever to finish. :) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:16:05 -0800 From: "Harvey, Michael" Subject: [MYSTARA] - D&D product ratings I found a survey site for xD&D products. It includes all the OD&D and Mystara stuff, although it appears that relatively few OD&D/Mystara fans have cast their votes. It would be great if a bunch of people went over there and rated the products they own; it would help those of us who are trying to obtain OOP stuff to see whether it's any good, and someday TSR might see it and decide to bring some of the more popular items back. Anyway here it is for anyone who is interested: http://www.enteract.com/~aardy/rate/index.html Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 13:08:59 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel >> cause of SE deformities now is the Radiance/soul >> crystals, which are the work of Rafiel. > >I'll have to look up the reference in the SE gaz, but I'm sure that the >Soul crystals are NOT Rafiel's work. I think that they were natural >radioactive stones. I didn't mean that he created them, only that their use is now tied to the deformities. [Sorry I got involved in *conversation*, rather than taking care to phrase my point so precisely so as not to be the subject of quibbling.] Jenn Explore Dark Myst Manor! http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:43:18 -0500 From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Paladins in Mystara Alvin Gellert wrote: > >The point is that the the Pandion knights are NOT fighting for their > >God. They don't know His name and the most knights are not very pious. > >The believe that He exists (well, at least ONE knights KNOWS that the > >Elenium God really exists), but this is a matter of the church. > > What is the name of the christian God, in the protestantic faith? Point is, > noone knows either, and we still had what I would call paladins.... I agree with you, church knight pretty much equals paladin. However, I must point out that we do know the name of the Christian God. And paladins...were not protestant... *smile* But again, I definitely agree with your main point. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #4 ****************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, January 15 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 005 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Living Cities Re: [MYSTARA] - Wanted: Wrath of the Immortals etc. Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne/Rad Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne and Rad and Rafiel, oh my! Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel [MYSTARA] - New OD&D Spell [MYSTARA] - Aquas Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquas Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquas Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquas Re: [MYSTARA] - Living Cities Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D product ratings Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne and Rad and Rafiel, oh my! Re: [MYSTARA] - SoP Problems Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquas Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne and Rad and Rafiel, oh my! Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne and Rad and Rafiel, oh my! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:19:53 +1100 (EST) From: Shawn Stanley Subject: [MYSTARA] - Living Cities > Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:36:19 -0500 (EST) > From: Frederic Ferro > Subject: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Living Cities > > Hi, everyone (and happy new year!) > > Someone mentioned an article by Bruce Heard > about "living cities" in the north of the Known World. > > Is it the same as the moving grounds and "nodes" > of magical energies Bruce talked about? > > Where can I find infos about that? IIRC there is an URL > somewhere but I cannot find it on Marco Dalmonte's Links page > (although it certainly *is* there, somewhere). The pages you're asking about are on my homepage at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 and you'll want to look under Wendar in the geography section as Wendar is where these cities exist. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:47:19 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wanted: Wrath of the Immortals etc. May I be among those that say to ye - OUCH! I hate it when strange humans hunt us for our ears... Arminath *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:59:44 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne/Rad >But did the Immortals (before WotI) know that the NoS may have endangered >several magical races or were they only concerned about the drain of >Mystara's magic? >I was quite surprised in seeing the effects of the Week Without Magic on >elves. I thought they were a "standard" race, different from humans as dogs >are different from cats. If there's one thing you'd expect Hierarchs to know about, it's conditions on other planes ... including planes with far lower levels of magic than Mystara has. Ixion, for example, isn't JUST an Immortal for Mystara; he's THE supreme power for Energy in the oD&D multiverse, and would know perfectly well that magical creatures can't survive in a magic-poor world: he's seen plane-traveling demihumans, planar spiders, and other magic-dependent creatures die out, on hundreds of low- or no-magic worlds, after getting stranded there! Granted, Rad might not have believed him ... or cared ... but there's no reason to think that ancient Immortals like Korotiku -- who's surely got planar spider followers on other worlds, and would know of those worlds' circumstances -- wouldn't be well aware of the Nucleus's potential "side effects" on magical races. >What about Rafiel supporting Rad in order to find a way to avoid the drain >of magic? After all, without WotI, magic would have been drained very >slowly and there would have been plenty of time to save all magical races >and creatures. >Remember, Rafiel is a scientist. He prefers to understand _how_ something >works and _why_ it is dangerous, rather than simply destroy it because it >can be dangerous. Yes, scientists do experiments on things rather than destroy them out of hand. However, they do them in laboratories with SAFETY measures -- isolated environments, where there's no danger of contamination for the experimentors OR of confounding variables that'd mess up the results -- NOT in their own homes. Had those Immortals who didn't want a war only offered to move the Nucleus to a pocket plane or other, lifeless planet, that might even have HELPED Rad's and Rafiel's research: in such an isolated, quiescent setting, there's less chance that the many other magical influences on Mystara (other artifacts, natural phenomena like "good" and "bad" magic points, celestial events that affect magic like the Night of the Red Moon) would confound their data! Besides, ol' Rafiel's already had one atomic power plant blow up in his face; would he really be THAT eager to start playing around with one he already suspects is more complex and alien than his mind (even as an Immortal) can grasp...? Sure, me and my sister could brawl over what to do about that stick of plutonium in our back yard. But if someone had only thought to point out to us that there was a nice, shielded, well-equipped nuclear physics laboratory three blocks away, that was for sale for only a few bucks (or PPs), why would we want to...? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:39:10 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne and Rad and Rafiel, oh my! >>Rafiel is an Immortal. He probably consider mortals to >be an inferior, >>maybe stupid, race. Glantrian wizards surely think of dwarves and hin as "inferior, maybe stupid" races -- after all, they can't cast wizard-magic, can they...? -- yet that doesn't excuse them from their crimes, when they experiment on captives from Rockhome or the Shires. The gap between Immortal and mortal may be larger, but that doesn't change the injustice of treating other intelligent beings like guinea pigs. On top of that, Rafiel never actually EARNED his Immortality -- not even by mastering the NoS, as Rad did; his "ascension" was purely an accident -- so he's the LAST one who's got any business, claiming his status as an Immortal marks him as "superior" to anyone. If anything, his willingness to treat elves as puppets and lab rats might have more to do with the Blackmoorians' old enmity for Evergrun: it wasn't a MILITARY nuclear facility Rafiel worked in, as a mortal, by any chance...? >But this isn't about a science lesson, so it really has >nothing at all to do with whether Rafiel thinks that he >should explain the laws of nuclear physics to the SE. >This is about faith and religion and >deception...Whether he thinks that his "chosen people" >are inferior or stupid or whatever, it is still immoral >for him to use them in such a destructive manner. I >understand that you are arguing that since Rafiel is a >scientist, he is detached and ultimately rational, and >probably believes that the end (*his* end) suits any >means. *However*, that is not moral justification for >what he does to the elves. < I agree with Jenn here. Even giving him the benefit of the doubt (by virtue of the face he's kind of lost in his own head), Rafiel's a pretty shoddy Immortal, and really ISN'T deserving of the shadow elves' faith in him. He may not be as direct as Atzanteotl in his means of worshipper-exploitation, but he IS maintaining his own status and pursuing his goals at the expense of hundreds of shadow elf infants ... not all of whose deformities are necessarily going to be of a sort that'll let them "pass" for humanoid. Maybe there's a potential plotline here, if some other Immortal -- perhaps Ordana, now that the SEs are getting used to the surface and know what a tree is again; or Ilsundal, if we want the conflict to be a lot more heated - -- started to lure some of the Aengmorans away from the shamans' teachings: renewing their affinity for surface-elf magics; granting sanctuary to couples whose infants are born just slightly deformed (e.g. extra fingers, hunchbacked, blind) and who don't want to abandon them; asking them why, if ol' Rafiel's so great and all-knowing, he never once mentioned that the surface world had been habitable (!), all along. It could even make for a neat surface-world parallel storyline, to be run concurrently with the Atruaghin-as-Quetzalcoatl plot, in the HW ... a sort of worldwide reassessment of dubious Immortals' roles, that every culture which endured WotI ought to be prone to, in the next few decades. >>Do you think he'll >>explain the natives how his machine works, or would he >rather use his >>godlike status to "force" them to help him, even if >this can be dangerous >>for the natives? If I'm not mistaken, one of the "Beagle" aliens already tried that. Are you saying that people like "Saint Stephan" (or whatever his real name was ... the guy who gave the "Froggies" high-tech gear, and started THEM mutating themselves, just as Rafiel did, the SEs!) can be considered morally justified? I'm afraid that, like Jenn, I have to conclude that Rafiel is at least partly evil. Ethically Neutral -- being a scientist, he's too systematic to be Chaotic -- and very philosophically-detached; yet still evil, much the same way that Hel (also non-Chaotic and detached) is. >Explore Dark Myst Manor! Been there. Seen it. Loved it, Jenn! ;-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:58:38 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel >>But if the Shadow Elves were suffering from birth >>defects and other problems before he came across >>them, then it might be argued that he really is >>helping them as well as the goblinoid races who >>find and adopt the deformed Shadow Elf infants. > >They were doubtlessly suffering from birth defects >prior to his finding them, since they were fleeing the >effects of the second cataclysm. *But* those defects >would have ended long ago. Rafiel took advantage of >their being "used to" (and I use that very loosely) >their suffering in order to pursue his experiment. The >cause of SE deformities now is the Radiance/soul >crystals, which are the work of Rafiel. The best evidence that the shadow elves' deformities are exclusively the product of soul crystals is that malformed infants are apparently unknown among the Gentle Folk. Those elves, although their ancestors were exposed to the same radiation poisoning as the Icevale elves and Schattenalfen (the CoS elves' underground life dates from the GRoF, not from Glantri), returned to the outer world and bred out their congenital defects ... presumably because such ugly, mutant Gentle Folk never married or reproduced, not because they were abandoned at birth. By the time they were sent to the Hollow World, the Gentle Folk didn't even remember living underground, let alone that they'd occasionally borne freakish children in past generations. The other two groups of elves who survived the Broken Lands device continue to produce mutant children, even after nearly 3000 years. However, this is probably because the SoP prevents them from breeding out the defects. Exposing their deformed offspring had become a key "cultural element" for those two HW groups -- who must've developed the practice independently from Rafiel's teachings, since neither group ever even heard of the Refuge of Stone -- so I guess the Spell of Preservation (oh, joy!) keeps on inducing enough malformed births to keep the custom going. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:55:43 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel Yes, the Sacred Crystals of the Souls are natural occurances, vested with the souls of the unborn Elves of the World Below. Unfortuanely, most Shadow Elves think that they are created by Rafiel, but alas, this is untrue. The Crystals are natural, and a natural source of radioactive material. Rafiel is currently having his shamen building another Nucleus of the Spheres. What the consequences and long range of this are as yet undetermined. I am in the personal thinking that he is expending vast amounts of his own personal energy to hide this from the other Immortals, especially after the events in WotI. Arminath *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 03:52:55 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - New OD&D Spell Welcome and good eve to ye all. I find I have some spare moments and wish to share another of my magics to all of ye. This time I shall impart the least of the protection spells I know, Wynter's Minor Ward. Wynter's Minor Ward Level: 2 Range: Touch Duration: Special Effect: Sets a harmful magical ward on one object. This spell cloaks an object of less than 10 cubic feet with an aura of harmful energy. Thereafter, the first living creature touching the object sets off the ward, recieving 1d3 points of magical energy damage per level of the ward's caster. No saving throw is allowed to avoid the damage. The object is unaffected by the discharge of the minor ward. Nonliving creatures, such as undead or golems, will not set off a minor ward, but extra-planar creatures will. The caster is free to handle the object at will. The maximum duration of the spell is 1 hour per level of the caster. Well, there ye have it, a minor magic to protect one's possessions or use as a trap for a nosebody rogue in your group. If there is an area of lore any of ye would like me to touch on, please feel free to contact me and ask. I've had a few adventures in my day and would hate to waste anyone's time with unwanted drivel. Arminath *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 13:00:58 +0100 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Aquas Hi guys! Yesterday I was wondering a bit about the Week of No Magic and suddenly a blot struck me (metaphorically ;)). If all mortal magic didn't work during that period, how could Aquas possibly survive, since the bubble that protects it it's been magically crafted??? The only solution I can think of is that it's powered by an artifact, but IIRC DotE mentions the fact that old Zyndryl actually crafted it with his hands.. was he an Immortal in mortal ID or was he using an artifact and channelled its energies to produce those force fields surrounding Seashield? This is DM, for another inquisitive episode of "Mysteries of Mystara". Thank you for joining us, and see you next week! ;) DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:45:37 EST From: EzJ25@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquas Well, if ye're looking for opinions, I'd be of the school of thought that says Alphatia used her immortal magic to fortify the bubble. Arminath *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 14:55:26 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquas > Yesterday I was wondering a bit about the Week of No Magic and suddenly a > blot struck me (metaphorically ;)). If all mortal magic didn't work during > that period, how could Aquas possibly survive, since the bubble that > protects it it's been magically crafted??? I think that the effects of highly permanent or monumental nature are not affected by day/week with no magic. I just don't see all the undead of Mystara suddenly dropping dead as permanent magical abilities of magical creatures cease to exist, or the aerial navy of Alfatia coming crashing down once in a year as the magical forms of flight become immediately cancelled. - Markus Montola, Finland *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:02:21 EST From: Magesmiley@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquas In a message dated 1/15/99 4:09:42 AM Pacific Standard Time, mdalmonte@provincia.ra.it writes: << Yesterday I was wondering a bit about the Week of No Magic and suddenly a blot struck me (metaphorically ;)). If all mortal magic didn't work during that period, how could Aquas possibly survive, since the bubble that protects it it's been magically crafted??? The only solution I can think of is that it's powered by an artifact, but IIRC DotE mentions the fact that old Zyndryl actually crafted it with his hands.. was he an Immortal in mortal ID or was he using an artifact and channelled its energies to produce those force fields surrounding Seashield? This is DM, for another inquisitive episode of "Mysteries of Mystara". Thank you for joining us, and see you next week! >> I think that it if you look at the assorted OD&D spells (I haven't checked AD&D yet so don't burn me on that) which create wood, stone, iron, steel, etc. you will find that they create permanent, non-magical, substances. I don't have my books handy but thats what I remember. - -Magesmiley *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:18:47 -0500 (EST) From: Frederic Ferro Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Living Cities On Fri, 15 Jan 1999, Shawn Stanley wrote: > The pages you're asking about are on my homepage at > http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 and you'll want to look > under Wendar in the geography section as Wendar is where these > cities exist. Thank you very much, Shawn. I found the texts on "sentient buildings" on http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/norwold.html Great pages, BTW. :-) Anacharsis - -- http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/1054 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:08:40 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D product ratings Mike Harvey wrote: >I found a survey site for xD&D products. It includes all the OD&D and >Mystara stuff, although it appears that relatively few OD&D/Mystara fans >have cast their votes. It would be great if a bunch of people went over >there and rated the products they own; it would help those of us who are >trying to obtain OOP stuff to see whether it's any good, and someday TSR >might see it and decide to bring some of the more popular items back. >Anyway here it is for anyone who is interested: > > http://www.enteract.com/~aardy/rate/index.html Thanks for the tip Mike! I agree that everyone should head on over and fill out the surveys. It was very fun (of course, I like that sort of thing:) and it only took me about fifteen minutes to rate all my OD&D, AD&D, and core products. Jenn Explore Dark Myst Manor! http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:20:53 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne and Rad and Rafiel, oh my! Sharon wrote: >If anything, his willingness >to treat elves as puppets and lab rats might have more to do with the >Blackmoorians' old enmity for Evergrun: it wasn't a MILITARY nuclear >facility Rafiel worked in, as a mortal, by any chance...? Ooh, good point! I never thought of that. >I agree with Jenn here. Even giving him the benefit of the doubt (by >virtue of the face he's kind of lost in his own head), >Rafiel's a pretty >shoddy Immortal, and really ISN'T deserving of the shadow elves' faith in >him. Glad I'm not the only one who thinks so...;-) >Maybe there's a potential plotline here, if some other >Immortal -- perhaps >Ordana, now that the SEs are getting used to the surface and know what a >tree is again; or Ilsundal, if we want the conflict to be a lot more heated >-- started to lure some of the Aengmorans away from the shamans' teachings: >renewing their affinity for surface-elf magics; granting sanctuary to >couples whose infants are born just slightly deformed (e.g. extra fingers, >hunchbacked, blind) and who don't want to abandon them; asking them why, if >ol' Rafiel's so great and all-knowing, he never once mentioned that the >surface world had been habitable (!), all along. I really like that idea. IMC, right now, there is a similar struggle going on, between those who moved to the surface, and "purists" who still believe in Rafiel. I'm trying to resolve the situation without having it come to civil war (the SE fight themselves too much already IMO), but Rafiel and his shamans are not about to go quietly. OH, BTW--Gaz 13 mentions that Porphyriel was seeking Immortality...has anyone pursued that story line? >I'm afraid that, like Jenn, I have to conclude that Rafiel is at least >partly evil. Ethically Neutral -- being a scientist, he's too systematic >to be Chaotic -- and very philosophically-detached; yet still evil, much >the same way that Hel (also non-Chaotic and detached) is. Yes, NE sounds very right. >>Explore Dark Myst Manor! > >Been there. Seen it. Loved it, Jenn! ;-) Hey, thanks Sharon!!! BTW, do you have a page where you post your HM stuff (which I think is great)? Jenn Explore Dark Myst Manor! http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:26:30 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - SoP Problems Sharon wrote: >The other two groups of elves who survived the Broken Lands device continue >to produce mutant children, even after nearly 3000 years. However, this is >probably because the SoP prevents them from breeding out the defects. >Exposing their deformed offspring had become a key "cultural element" for >those two HW groups -- who must've developed the practice independently >from Rafiel's teachings, since neither group ever even heard of the Refuge >of Stone -- so I guess the Spell of Preservation (oh, joy!) keeps on >inducing enough malformed births to keep the custom going. That makes me wonder: what are the *ill* effects of the SoP?? Sharon has mentioned that it will not allow the elves to breed out their birth defects; it also keeps the Gentle Folk from healing from their (Thanatos-enforced) guilt over the Broken Lands explosion. Others? Jenn Explore Dark Myst Manor! http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:29:57 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel Arminath wrote: >Rafiel is >currently having his shamen building another Nucleus of the Spheres. What the >consequences and long range of this are as yet undetermined. I am in the >personal thinking that he is expending vast amounts of his own personal energy >to hide this from the other Immortals, especially after the events in WotI. Should Ixion find out about this one, he will certainly destroy the Radiance Immortals...They have a dangerous habit. (And, IMNSHO, good riddance!) Jenn Explore Dark Myst Manor! http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:09:36 PST From: "matthew nash" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquas >Hi guys! > >Yesterday I was wondering a bit about the Week of No Magic and suddenly a >blot struck me (metaphorically ;)). If all mortal magic didn't work during >that period, how could Aquas possibly survive, since the bubble that >protects it it's been magically crafted??? maybe a modified ironform or steel form spell? how did all those people breathe down there though? it's been a while since i looked at DotE but i think they would have to get air magicaly. Giggles ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:21:24 EST From: BoBoII@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne and Rad and Rafiel, oh my! In a message dated 99-01-15 11:28:23 EST, you write: << I'm afraid that, like Jenn, I have to conclude that Rafiel is at least >partly evil. Ethically Neutral -- being a scientist, he's too systematic >to be Chaotic -- and very philosophically-detached; yet still evil, much >the same way that Hel (also non-Chaotic and detached) is. >> Anyone remember the short-lived Ghostbusters Game? In it, one of the motivations you could give your character was "Godless pursuit of Science." This was what Egon had, and the text said that while this could lead to great breakthroughs, it also created some totally twisted behavior on the part of the Scientist. Venckman: Remember the time you tried to drill a hole in your head? Egon: That would have worked if you hadn't stopped me. Good ol' Rafiel has a touch of this if you ask me.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:47:26 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel BoBoII wrote: >Anyone remember the short-lived Ghostbusters Game? In it, one of the >motivations you could give your character was "Godless pursuit of Science." >This was what Egon had, and the text said that while this could lead to great >breakthroughs, it also created some totally twisted behavior on the part of >the Scientist. > >Venckman: Remember the time you tried to drill a hole in your head? >Egon: That would have worked if you hadn't stopped me. > >Good ol' Rafiel has a touch of this if you ask me.... ...lol... Problem is, how err, *odd* is "Godless" pursuit of science from someone who effectively *is* one?? (Please, nobosy start the gods vs. Immortals thing again, it was just a play on words) :-) Jenn Explore Dark Myst Manor! http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:29:25 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne and Rad and Rafiel, oh my! Jenn and Sharon raised some very good points about SE in general, but one thing that sticks to me is the fact that Rafiel never asked for worshippers, in the beginning he just wanted to help the Forgotten Clans survive their situation. Not until a long time after did the Radiance Crystals true properties get discovered and now for some reason he wants to build another nucleus....wonder why? Rafiel is a sham of an immortal, but he was thrust (literally) into a role he didn't ask for or want. Another important thing to remember is the lengths ANY immortal will go to in order to keep his or her followers. Their very lives depend on worship, so they will keep those followers any way possible. The sad thing is ANY alignment of Immortal will do it, be it Good, Neutral or Evil because the direct worship is their sustanence. The Radiant Shaman is about to become Immortal IMC and she has seen the surface and wants changes. The lost city and the wanderers that had infiltrated it are but the tip of the iceberg for the downfall of Rafiel, since "no contact is allowed to those that follow the path of the wanderer". With all his contradictory philosiphies, it makes one wonder if Rafiel had a God complex at first when he was coping with what he became... Arminath *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #5 ****************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, January 15 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 006 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne and Rad and Rafiel, oh my! Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquas [MYSTARA] - Posting Question Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne and Rad and Rafiel, oh my! Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne and Rad and Rafiel, oh my! Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne and Rad and Rafiel, oh my! Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquas Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel Re: [MYSTARA] - Paladins in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel Re: [MYSTARA] - Paladins in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Posting Question [MYSTARA] - United Criers Guild (long) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:15:04 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel In a message dated 1/15/99 11:34:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, valerya@hotmail.com writes: << Should Ixion find out about this one, he will certainly destroy the Radiance Immortals...They have a dangerous habit. (And, IMNSHO, good riddance!) >> I dunno Jenn...maybe that is part of the Old Ones "Grand Experiment". Don't you think that they know what's happening? Besides, if Ixion tries to destroy the Radiance Immortals outright, won't that slide him into evil and alienate him from a big number of his worshippers, thereby reducing his overall power? I'm sure his enemies are waiting for that day... Arminath *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 13:18:14 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne and Rad and Rafiel, oh my! On Thu, 14 Jan 1999, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: > worshipper-exploitation, but he IS maintaining his own status and pursuing > his goals at the expense of hundreds of shadow elf infants ... not all of > whose deformities are necessarily going to be of a sort that'll let them > "pass" for humanoid. I don't see it. Elves naturally abhor birth defects. The babies would have probably died anyway. Rafiel took pity on them and set the law to strand the chilren in the upper caves. He personally guides Orcs to them. And Orcs aren't exactly smart. And they aren't pretty either. Even minor birth defects may make them think that this child may be an orc, or goblin, or whatever. It doesn't matter. Rafiel is in no way immoral. At least not in my opinion. > ol' Rafiel's so great and all-knowing, he never once mentioned that the > surface world had been habitable (!), all along. It could even make for a But the SE's knew it. They visited Alfheim. The Alfheimers told them to "Get away, evil spawn of the caves" Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:22:44 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel Arminath wrote: >I dunno Jenn...maybe that is part of the Old Ones "Grand Experiment". Don't >you think that they know what's happening? That all depends on if you think they're *that* involved in the goings-on of the immortals. I suppose the answer is yes, if you think they're even paying attention. That would also determine whether or not you used the Old One encounter in WotI. >Besides, if Ixion tries to destroy >the Radiance Immortals outright, won't that slide him into evil and alienate >him from a big number of his worshippers, thereby reducing his overall power? >I'm sure his enemies are waiting for that day... Not necessarily. I've always seen good ol' Ixion as a CN kind of personality, which would give him a great latitude in his actions. Remember, too, that he already sees the destruction of Rad (if not Rafiel too) as a "greater good" situation. Jenn Explore Dark Myst Manor! http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 13:20:07 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquas On Fri, 15 Jan 1999, DM wrote: > Yesterday I was wondering a bit about the Week of No Magic and suddenly a > blot struck me (metaphorically ;)). If all mortal magic didn't work during > that period, how could Aquas possibly survive, since the bubble that > protects it it's been magically crafted??? Stoneform spells, thrice locked, are no longer magical. Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:10:55 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Posting Question Hi all, I had a quick question, regarding posting my stuff to the list: WebTV has given us a way to cut and paste (*whew!*), so although in the past I wan't able to post the stuff from my web page (the files, not the story) to the MML, I can do so now. Question is, *do* I? I know that most here have read that stuff already, and may not be interested in re-reading it, but posting it to the list will also get my stuff posted on stan's site, which I would like very much. So, would anyone consider themselves spammed if I posted the articles (I can add some comments beforehand or something), or would it be okay? I appreciate a fairly quick response, as classes start for me Monday, and I would need to do this when I have ample time. Thanks in advance, Jenn Explore Dark Myst Manor! http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:01:27 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne and Rad and Rafiel, oh my! >On Thu, 14 Jan 1999, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: > >I don't see it. Elves naturally abhor birth defects. The babies would have >probably died anyway. Rafiel took pity on them and set the law to strand >the chilren in the upper caves. He personally guides Orcs to them. > >And Orcs aren't exactly smart. And they aren't pretty either. Even minor >birth defects may make them think that this child may be an orc, or >goblin, or whatever. It doesn't matter. > >Rafiel is in no way immoral. At least not in my opinion. If Rafiel took THAT much of a hand in the malformed babies' lives, he could just as easily have corrected their genetic defects during gestation, and been done with it. Frankly, my guess is he COULD have fixed them ... he just couldn't be bothered to. And orcs aren't THAT stupid: if they can tell a red orc from a common orc, or a goblin from a hobgoblin, they're certainly not going to mistake an elf with a walleye or clubfoot for one of their own kind! Besides, not ALL elves are as intolerant of birth defects as the shadow elves. Even the Schattenalfen, of all people, will put up with minor deformities; IIRC, one of the NPCs from "Nightwail" was a Schattenalf with a facial tic that made him grin nastily (bit like the Joker) all the time. Indeed, the fact that various subterranean elves have become so pale-skinned and big-eared probably LOOKED like some kind of "birth defect", when it first cropped up among the underground exiles. >> ol' Rafiel's so great and all-knowing, he never once mentioned that the >> surface world had been habitable (!), all along. It could even make for a > >But the SE's knew it. They visited Alfheim. The Alfheimers told them to >"Get away, evil spawn of the caves" That's what shadow elf history -- which ain't exactly 100% accurate -- claims. Actually, the king of Alfheim refused their request because, between Alfheim's own population and hordes of CoS immigrants, there would have been far more elves than the Canolbarth could sustain. Being unfamiliar with diplomacy or anything but strong-arm tactics (which worked with their humanoid enemies, but not on the surface), the shadow elves took this initial refusal -- and invitation to negotiate some kind of compromise - -- as an outright rejection. And I hate to burst your bubble, but there's literally THOUSANDS of miles of yet-unclaimed wilderness on Brun, northwest of the Known World and north of the Savage Coast. Much of it is even forested! Alfheim is hardly the only place on the continent, where the shadow elves could have emerged onto the surface. So why did Rafiel allow "his" people to get into protracted, vicious conflicts with the Alfheimers -- not to mention the Broken Lands' humanoids, whom they warred against for millenia -- rather than letting them know about these ideal settings for peaceful colonization? Only one reason: he wanted to keep them near the Radience-harboring soul crystals, the better to complete his "experiment". *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:33:21 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne and Rad and Rafiel, oh my! On Fri, 15 Jan 1999, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: > If Rafiel took THAT much of a hand in the malformed babies' lives, he could > just as easily have corrected their genetic defects during gestation, and > been done with it. Now that goes into the direct interference thing. PLUS - you have to remember that Rafiel *wants* to seem evil to stand up to Immortals like Atzanteotl who are MUCH more cruel. > certainly not going to mistake an elf with a walleye or clubfoot for one of > their own kind! Who'se to say that walleye or clubfoot are the types of defects SEs have? I would assume that those malformed elves are _only_ severely deformed. In fact, since this is a fantasy game, I would say that SEs are born one of 3 ways: Normal (maybe with small correctable defects - 6 fingers, etc.), With shaman's marks, or Severely Deformed. > them know about these ideal settings for peaceful colonization? Only one > reason: he wanted to keep them near the Radience-harboring soul crystals, > the better to complete his "experiment". Could have also been that the writers of the module decided that... But realistically, those caves don't extend all that far. Deep, yes, Wide no. Maybe the Elves can't get to other areas of Brun. But who can Question the Immortals? I'm sure Rafiel doesn't consider his brood merely puppets, any more than Vanya considers the Knights her "puppets" What Rafiel does is not Immoral. Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:33:49 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne and Rad and Rafiel, oh my! >>>Explore Dark Myst Manor! >> >>Been there. Seen it. Loved it, Jenn! ;-) > >Hey, thanks Sharon!!! BTW, do you have a page where you >post your HM stuff (which I think is great)? > >Jenn I wish! No, I don't have a webpage ... in fact, I don't even have a web-capable PC of my own. (I use my department's computer lab to surf and post stuff.) Glad you like the HM stuff, though! :-) I'm planning on putting some shadow elf-offshoots in the HM too, called "vesper elves". They're mostly descended from a group that broke away from the Schattenalfen, after the sack of Mictlan -- unlike the "canon" deep elves, they were totally repulsed by the senseless massacre of Atruatzin's followers and wouldn't trust Atzanteotl -- and eventually reached the surface world. Remember that SE story, about a group of Poradors who supposedly wandered off into the Desert of Lost Souls and died...? They actually joined up with the surface-seeking vesper elves, disillusioned with Rafiel's harshness; alarmed by their desertion, CoS shamans spread stories that the "apostates" had died out, and had their abandoned tunnels (southeast of the SE caverns) all sealed off from the Rafielites' domain. E-mail me if you'd like a preview of the vesper elves' history; it sounds like you're someone who could really help me out with it, Jennifer. :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:16:06 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel >Not necessarily. I've always seen good ol' Ixion as a >CN kind of personality, which would give him a great >latitude in his actions. Remember, too, that he already >sees the destruction of Rad (if not Rafiel too) as a >"greater good" situation. > >Jenn > Amusing thought: If Ka's ONLY motivation for shielding Rad and Rafiel from Ixion's wrath was to prevent Radience Immortals -- an "endangered species", at least in Allston's opinion -- from becoming extinct, the ol' lizard could just as easily have let the Sun-Prince blast Rad into oblivion, THEN intervened on Rafiel's behalf! After all, it's not as if a "new breed of Immortal" needs to undergo reproduction or maintain some minimum gene pool, to preserve itself; so long as ONE of them stuck around, radiation-Immortals wouldn't really be "extinct", now would they....? Remember: the Preserver DOESN'T intervene until a culture or species is within a hair's breadth of going out forever. As the Colimans would say, "it's a dog's life". ;-) For that matter, once Benekander'd shown himself, Ka could've switched sides and helped Ixion stomp the Fellowship into the ground, eliminating BOTH Rad and Rafiel, and leaving just one Radiation-Immortal to perpetuate the "new breed": Benekander, whose mortal-friendly stance is probably a LOT more appealing to the big, scaly softie. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 21:34:43 +0100 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?=" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquas > > << Yesterday I was wondering a bit about the Week of No Magic and suddenly a > blot struck me (metaphorically ;)). If all mortal magic didn't work during > that period, how could Aquas possibly survive, since the bubble that > protects it it's been magically crafted??? > > The only solution I can think of is that it's powered by an artifact, but > IIRC DotE mentions the fact that old Zyndryl actually crafted it with his > hands.. was he an Immortal in mortal ID or was he using an artifact and > channelled its energies to produce those force fields surrounding Seashield? > > This is DM, for another inquisitive episode of "Mysteries of Mystara". > Thank you for joining us, and see you next week! >> > > I think that it if you look at the assorted OD&D spells (I haven't checked > AD&D yet so don't burn me on that) which create wood, stone, iron, steel, etc. > you will find that they create permanent, non-magical, substances. I don't > have my books handy but thats what I remember. > > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. You are right for the Create spell which keep Aquas' "shell" working, but this does not solve the AIR supply problem (the air is permanent, but it will have become vitiated enough in a week unless refreshed by new spells). I must agree with Marco: it must be some kind of artifact power, perhaps brought about by its powerful creator following (successful or not) the Path of the Parangon. Andrés *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:55:41 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel SteelAngel wrote: >PLUS - you have to remember that Rafiel *wants* to seem evil to stand up >to Immortals like Atzanteotl who are MUCH more cruel. This basically boils down to the fact that Rafiel does not see himself as evil, instead seeing Atz. as the *real* bad guy. I'm not arguing that Atz isn't, only that Atzanteotl's evil nature does not automatically make Rafiel a good guy in comparison. Plus, this only really reflects on what Rafiel thinks of himself...which is not really all that surprising. I doubt that evil people often think of themselves as evil, just that they are doing what is necessary, or what they think is best to serve their intentions. (CE beings willingly serve Evil, but I think we've already determined that if Rafiel is evil, he'd be more of a NE.) For example, I'm a dictator. I rule with an iron fist, and my troops kill anyone who is asociated with any of my political enemies, including their families. I also think that my country would be better off without certain types of people, like vagrants or people with deformities or people whose religion I don't like or people with whom my people have fought for thousands of years. So I exterminate them. Am I evil? Yes. What do I think of myself?--I'm doing the "right" thing. I'm not trying to go off on a moral relativistic bent here, but I think you'll see my point. Rafiel does not have to see himself as evil to *be* evil nonetheless. >> them know about these ideal settings for peaceful colonization? Only one >> reason: he wanted to keep them near the Radience-harboring soul crystals, >> the better to complete his "experiment". > >Could have also been that the writers of the module decided that... But if we default our arguments back to "the writers wrote..." then we are not really discussing the possibilities of Mystaran material, are we? In that case, we are presupposing the authors' intentions, and not to mention taking the fantasy out of a fantasy game by just falling back on "they said so". We are, instead, discussing Rafiel's *possible* motives, according to the information we have, and extrapolating. >But who can Question the Immortals? I'm sure Rafiel doesn't consider his >brood merely puppets, any more than Vanya considers the Knights her >"puppets" Again, we cannot presuppose anything, but only judge on the actions we see. >What Rafiel does is not Immoral. I have yet to see an argument that convinces me. Jenn Explore Dark Myst Manor! http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 22:12:20 +0100 From: Cobaye Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Paladins in Mystara In many places, and churchs, there is the holly warriors. AD&D present paladin as defender of good. But a paladin, was a houseless Knight who have choosen to serve Chivalry and selves principles. So, in Mystara, there's a lot of Holly warriors for many Immortals. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 14:10:43 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel Sharon wrote: >For that matter, once Benekander'd shown himself, Ka could've switched >sides and helped Ixion stomp the Fellowship into the ground, eliminating >BOTH Rad and Rafiel, and leaving just one Radiation-Immortal to perpetuate >the "new breed": Benekander, whose mortal-friendly stance is probably a >LOT more appealing to the big, scaly softie. A darned good point, Sharon! And one which highlights your original post, questioning the "logic" (and I think we both use this term loosely here:) behind the alliances in WotI. Jenn Explore Dark Myst Manor! http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 21:12:38 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Paladins in Mystara > I agree with you, church knight pretty much equals paladin. However, I must > point out that we do know the name of the Christian God. And paladins...were > not protestant... > > But again, I definitely agree with your main point. Well, I not. But we should close this discussion as we even have left Mystara. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:46:03 PST From: "Jerry Hovenanian" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Posting Question Jenn, Go for it. If people don't want to reread it there is the delete button :) >>>>------------------------------------------------------------->>>> <-----<<< Jerry Hovenanian * clumsydwarf@hotmail.com >>>-----> <<<<-------------------------------------------------------------<<<< "Never in the field of human conflict, was so much owed by so many to so few." - Sir Winston Churchill - "So let's all give Microsoft a swift kick to the groin" - Personal addendum to Churchill quotation. >>>>------------------------------------------------------------->>>> ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:07:18 PST From: "Jerry Hovenanian" Subject: [MYSTARA] - United Criers Guild (long) The United Criers Guild A brief history. The United Criers Guild came about 10 years ago in order to keep information moving around the world. It was started by Ragnar and Delsonara Gliven, a pair of married adventures from Darokin. They would wander all over the world to find adventure and fortune but never knew where adventure was. They would hear of a war and by the time the got there the war was over. They would here of a newly uncovered dungeon and someone was offering tours inside it when they arrived. In AC 988 they hit the mother load, the stumbled across a cave belonging to a red dragon, slew her, and were now very rich and famous. Most people would retire on a small island in Irendi but they chose to invest it in a business ...The United Criers Guild. How it works. The guild, in each city, has an orb in the guild headquarters. Each orb is able to communicate with another orb without delay, so a guild member in Thyatis city can talk to another member in Glantri. Each orb can not be moved and if ever it is it will lose all its magic. The orbs cost 3,000,000 gp to make in parts,labor, and enchantments. In most cases they had funding help of the local government. Every city has 10-25 people "on staff" and will pay 15gp a month salary. They will also pay 1sp-1gp for a independently submitted stories depending on the quality of it and the subject matter. All of the stories of regional or global importance are sent over the the crystal orbs to other cities provided that a local government official approves the transmission. The guild will remain silent about affairs of state if asked (as so not to rock the boat) but will never engage in disinformation. Any local stories are posted on a wall with any received stories from other cities. The guild makes its money 2 ways. The first way is that they post local advertisements. If you were opening a new tavern in town you might pay the guild to post an ad on the wall in the city with the news. In the course of a week hundreds or thousands of people might read it (or have it read to them). Costs for these ads are around 1 gp per day per page of paper, a little more in large cities like Thyatis and Sundsvail. The second way is to send a message to another city. It costs 1 sp per word and will be delivered in the middle of the night when traffic is at a minimum because the system can get overloaded (this will actually happen when Alphitia declares war on Thyatis in AC 1004) and would be shut down for a few days. The leadership of the guild is made up of... Delsonara(he/female/M16/NG) after Ragnar's passing in AC 998 she is now the guild master. Aldwin (h/male/Enc19/CG) invented the orbs and is the only one who knows how to make them. Noric (Dw/male/F15/LN) is in charge of security for the guild. Ryese (Hin/male/T12/NG) keeps and eye on the money and assets of the guild. Alya (Elf/female/F12/NG) does a little bit of everything and stuff not covered by the others. Contests, Public Relations, Logistics, Etc... Guild Assetes 2 Gallon Air Ships (moderately armed) 400 member security force A building and orb in every city Lots of $$$$$ A fleet of merchent vesssels (lightly armed) A secret headquarters (a small island in Ierendi) 700 guild members Enjoy a tax free or low tax existence in every country. Locations The Known World Alfheim Alfheim City Atruaghin None...but a reporter wanders the clans. Broken Lands None (Duh) Darokin Akesoli Athenos Corunglain Darokin City Selenica Ethengar None...but a reporter wanders the plains. The Five Shires Shireton Glantri Glantri City Heldanic Territories Freiburg Ierendi Ierendi City Karameikos Specularum (Mirros) Minrothad City of Minrothad Ostland Zeaburg Rockhome Upper Dengar Shadow Elves' Territories None (Duh Again) Sind Sayr Ulan Soderfjord Soderfjord City Vestland Norrvic Wendar City of Wendar Ylaruam Ylaruam City Alphatian Empire Alphatia (Mainland) Aasla Sundsvall Eagret Limn Draco Denwarf-Hurgon Starpoint Skyreach Seashield Bluenose Alfleigh Shraek Alatian Islands (Aegos,Aeria,Gaity,Ne'er-do-well) Aegopoli Featherfall Rainbow Park Crossroads Aquas Seashield Bellissaria (Dawnrim,Horkin,Lagrius,Meriander,Notrion,Surshield) Alchemos Spearpoint Esterhold (Blackrock,Verdan) Skyfyr Faraway Northern Alphatian Dawn (Dunadale,Deirdren,East Portage) Dunadale East Portage Southern Alphatian Dawn (Ekto,Trikelios,Thothia) Edario Ekto Trikelios Norwold Alpha Oceansend Qeodhar Farend Yannivey Islands None Thyatian Empire Thyatis Thyatis City Kendach Kendach Town West Portage West Portage Westrourke Newkirk Helskir Helskir City Ochalea Beitung Lands Above and Beyond Our Knowlege Serraine Yes...even the Gnomes get the news. The Week Without Magic, The Day of Dread, And The Guild When magic failed for a week in late AC 1009 the guild will shut off for the week, none of the globes will work. On the day of dread the same is true but it lasts for a day or two longer. None of the guild members know why. For Your Campaign I rain the Wrath of the Immortals and I had a problem....the PC needed to stop the chaos but it was hard to get them involved when big events happened weeks before, so I made the guild to get them involved in the world. I think it was one of the best I ever ran. It lasted around 9 months, and I think the players enjoyed it. If you are not running the Immortals, the guild can lead the players to many adventures. One of the PCs might have a contact in the guild to tip them off about things or the PC might even occasionally write for them. Lastly the guild adds color to the world for the PCs. When they entered a city they always wanted an news update. If you can keep up with it it is an improvement and a good addition to any Mystaran campaign. Note: All information is current for AC 1000. If I get some feedback I'll make a timeline. Writing, Professional (Wizard, Priest) 1 slot or 2 character points Wis 0 or base check of 7 modified by Wis/Inu or Chr/Lea To take this proficiency a character must be able to write first. With this proficiency a character may write novels, stories, and articles. The more the player passes the check by the better the work. Any input?...please! >>>>------------------------------------------------------------->>>> <-----<<< Jerry Hovenanian * clumsydwarf@hotmail.com >>>-----> <<<<-------------------------------------------------------------<<<< "Never in the field of human conflict, was so much owed by so many to so few." - Sir Winston Churchill - "So let's all give Microsoft a swift kick to the groin" - Personal addendum to Churchill quotation. >>>>------------------------------------------------------------->>>> ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #6 ****************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, January 15 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 007 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquas Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquas Re: [MYSTARA] - United Criers Guild (long) [MYSTARA] - Repost Re: [MYSTARA] - Repost Re: [MYSTARA] - Repost Re: [MYSTARA] - Posting Question Re: [MYSTARA] - SoP Problems Re: [MYSTARA] - Posting Question Re: [MYSTARA] - United Criers Guild (long) [MYSTARA] - The Darine (long) [MYSTARA] - Darine Kits (Darine, part 2) [MYSTARA] - Krondahar and Bramyra, part 1 (long) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:30:28 EST From: Magesmiley@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquas In a message dated 1/15/99 2:02:14 PM Pacific Standard Time, anpro@accesocero.es writes: << You are right for the Create spell which keep Aquas' "shell" working, but this does not solve the AIR supply problem (the air is permanent, but it will have become vitiated enough in a week unless refreshed by new spells). I must agree with Marco: it must be some kind of artifact power, perhaps brought about by its powerful creator following (successful or not) the Path of the Parangon. Andrés >> Hmmmm. Maybe some sort of specially bred plants or algae were used to provide enough air to survive on for a week. Another possibility would be a permanent, non-magical gateway or wormhole to the elemental plane of air (which isn't too farfetched since the Alphatians are descended from the Followers of Air). The city designers probably had some sort of failsafe in place. Probably wouldn't be pleasant, but it beats trying to breathe seawater. - -Magesmiley *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:14:13 PST From: "Jerry Hovenanian" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquas On Fri, 15 Jan 1999 21:34:43 +0100 Andrés wrote.. >but this does not solve the AIR supply problem (the air is permanent, >but it will have become vitiated enough in a week unless refreshed by >new spells=). I must agree with Marco: it must be some kind of >artifact power, perhaps brought about by its powerful creator >following (successful or not) the Path of the Parangon. Nope...an articact woundn't have done it....the week without magic was more severe than the days without magic, Immortals on Mystara had to kill their mortal forms or be stuck there and the Hollow World sun went out!!!! The effect was more like a nul magic zone than a dead magic zone. We are all forgeting one thing that gould have saved Aquas from suffication, the industrious little Gnomes who do not want to die. They could have used an undersea boat to get a air tube to the surface and used fans to get the air down or some other strange idea. Also I think there must have been some plan to evacuate the city in case of an emergency maybe to an under water cave because there is a cavern that the leviathan was hiding it so there might have been other large caverns near by. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:56:04 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - United Criers Guild (long) >Aldwin (h/male/Enc19/CG) invented the orbs and is the only one who knows >how to make them. So this is the guy who invented the "PC," huh (and I don't mean player character!) :-) >2 Gallon Air Ships (moderately armed) Can I get that in the 5-gallon value size? 8-)~ > I rain the Wrath of the Immortals and I had a problem....the PC needed >to stop the chaos but it was hard to get them involved when big events >happened weeks before, so I made the guild to get them involved in the >world. I think it was one of the best I ever ran. It lasted around 9 >months, and I think the players enjoyed it. This is a *really* great idea, Jerry (all joking aside)...I had always wondered how reasonably to play out the "What the PCs Can Do" parts of Wrath, but I never understood how they could be involved in more than one storyline during the course of the war, travel being what it is...And how the heck they could even appreciate the scope of the war, if they knew nothing beyond their local area. This solves the problem! Great work. >If you can keep up with it it >is an improvement and a good addition to any Mystaran campaign. We have an NPC, actually, who is a reporter-type, but I've never filled in *how* she gets her information outside of Traladara...Is the Guild up for grabs? It would fit nicely! In all, Jerry, this is a wonderful idea. I wish I could give you more feedback, but I have no criticism, constructive or otherwise--I think it's great as is! Jenn Explore Dark Myst Manor! http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:59:32 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Repost Hi again, I posted a question earlier, but I never received it, so I'm wondering if anyone got it...? I asked whether anyone would mind (or if anyone would want me to) post some of my articles from my site. I'd like to get at least a little bit of a consensus before I clog the in-boxes! :-) Jenn Explore Dark Myst Manor! http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 02:17:24 +0100 From: Michele Vacchiano Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Repost Jennifer Favia wrote: > I asked whether anyone would mind (or if anyone would > want me to) post some of my articles from my site. I'd > like to get at least a little bit of a consensus before > I clog the in-boxes! :-) > WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just do it... I'm making space on the hdd just for you! ;-) Giorgio *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:38:14 PST From: "Elmoar Hierydyl" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Repost >WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >Just do it... I'm making space on the hdd just for you! ;-) Yeah, post them. That way they'll get on stan's site too. Elmoar Hierydyl Arch-Mage of Vyalia ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 20:58:18 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Posting Question Jenn wrote: >So, would anyone consider themselves spammed if I posted the >articles (I can add some comments beforehand or >something), or would it be okay? Go right ahead! :) Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 20:53:27 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - SoP Problems One big problem with the SoP is the simple fact that there is a never-ending resistance to change. Of course, that's the *point* of the HW, as some would say, but it also means that those cultures that were repressive when they were sent to the HW will always remain so. Think of the isolated town of Colima, where the PCs (in one of the adventures) first get to the HW. These peaceful fishermen and rock carvers go about their business, but frequently they get pounded by the Azcans. Every time, they're almost wiped out, but enough remain to survive and rebuild, until the next devastating attack. All they can do is barely maintain the status quo, living under the eternal shadow of the Azcans. Add this one to the list of "suffering" cultures, IMO. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 21:39:35 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Posting Question >Jenn wrote: > >>So, would anyone consider themselves spammed if I posted the >>articles (I can add some comments beforehand or >>something), or would it be okay? I, for one, can't wait, Jenn ... even though I've already read some of them on your page! Go right ahead, post like crazy! :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 21:41:31 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - United Criers Guild (long) Dateline CNN ... Mystara style! I like it! :-D >How it works. > >The guild, in each city, has an orb in the guild headquarters. Each orb >is able to communicate with another orb without delay, so a guild member >in Thyatis city can talk to another member in Glantri. Each orb can not >be moved and if ever it is it will lose all its magic. The orbs cost >3,000,000 gp to make in parts,labor, and enchantments. In most cases >they had funding help of the local government. Every city has 10-25 >people "on staff" and will pay 15gp a month salary. They will also pay >1sp-1gp for a independently submitted stories depending >on the quality of it and the subject matter. All of the stories of >regional or global importance are sent over the the crystal orbs to >other cities provided that a local government official approves the >transmission. The guild will remain silent about affairs of state if >asked (as so not to rock the boat) but will never engage in >disinformation. Any local stories are posted on a wall with any >received stories from other cities. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:52:08 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Darine (long) Back in '97, Rick LaRue asked the MML if anyone was interested in detailing Traladaran Gypsies, who he called the Darine. I expanded upon his idea, using the Vistani from Ravenloft (working from their MC Annual entry). I've since seen this article on many web pages; I've edited this version (from my web page) for grammar and spelling (oops!:) and I've taken out the details of the Wandering Curse, which very few liked. So all I ask is that, if you post it, please use this version (or update the one you have!). And of course, you can find this article in all its html, graphic-enhanced glory at my page, http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/4270/ Jenn THE DARINE The Darine (singular, Daro or Dara) are the "gypsies" of Traladara. They are descended from the Traldar that migrated west into Sind during the invasion of the Red Orcs in 1000 BC. Never quite fitting into the local culture, the Traldar tribe that formed from these refugees moved out of the region in 600 BC and haven't ever really settled down since; though the region of Traladara has become a "homeland" for many of the clans, the Darine range as far north as Darokin and Rockhome; west to the Five Shires, Sind and the Burning Waste; east to Vyalia and western Thyatis; and south to Ierendi. The Darine resemble most Traladarans in appearance: dark hair, light to olive skin, dusky eyes. They dress in even more vibrant clothing than their Traladaran cousins, preferring bright kerchiefs, scarves, and sashes, along with embroidered trousers and vests worn with billowing shirts, Both men and women typically wear a great deal of jangling jewelry, and men pierce their ears as often as do women. The Darine diet consists of roasted meat, goat's and mare's milk, berries, and other fruit, and strong coffees. They earn their living in various ways, mostly through services, trade, fortune telling, and entertaining, although they have a reputation for thievery. They occasionally hire out as guides. They have a knack for guiding parties safely to wherever they wish to go. They are clever, and always find ways to honour their agreements, even if these have been made with conflicting sides. Many Darine are skilled warriors and thieves. Spellcasters are more rare and are usually women. Darine typically arm themselves with swords, daggers, cudgels, light axes, and similar weapons. Missile weapons are uncommon; longer distance weapons tend to be light crossbows or slings, while throwing daggers are popular for short-range work. Religiously, the Darine feel a strong connection to the land, and honour Zirchev above all other Immortals. (Some also honour Halav, Petra, or Terra, but not as universally). This Darine connection to the land is strange; they love the land and its creatures, but seem unable to settle down. This is because of an ancient curse called down upon the Darine long, long ago by an evil priest in retribution for the Darine's meddling in his treacheries. Since the day the curse was pronounced, the Darine have wandered. The few individuals who try to settle down are usually restless, secretly longing for their old life. The Darine blood of these few infects them with a similar desire to wander, causing them to seek lives as adventurers. A Darine clan consists of a caravan of 5 to 50 members, and is usually an extended family. The Darine travel in wooden wagons called vardos (small wagons with a high arching roof and a door at the back with the driver sitting in front). Vardos are painted in vivid colours and might even have tiny windows of tinted glass, if the owner is prosperous. The vardo travels with a small menagerie of dogs, goats, and crated chickens. Each caravan is led by the elders (oldest male and female). These elders have the final say on all matters that affect the whole clan. They arrange marriages between clans to form alliances and diffuse feuds. A clan might consist of one set of grandparents, one or two of their sons, their sons' families and maybe their grandsons' families. Typically, only unmarried daughters live with their blood relatives, going to live with their husbands' families upon marriage. Non-Darine are derisively called gorgios. While these individuals may be befriended of Darine, they can never be considered part of the Darine fellowship. There are no "honourary" Darine. Darine trade with gorgios for everything, preferring goods, services, and even trinkets over Royals or Daros, or the like. They often accept promises for later services in place of immediate payment. They interpret promises literally, so care must be taken in the exact wording. Darine follow their own law, such as that is. They ignore laws they don't like, completely unfettered by guilt. To the Darine, justice is more important than the law. They also view property differently (much like to Nuari or older Makai), and so do not feel remorse over petty thefts. They view murder and rape much more harshly than even the King's courts, though, and punish both appropriately. They also dislike broken promises and lies, but think nothing of twisting the truth in their favour. Darine punishments or crimes are always fitting; for example, rape is punishable by castration, a broken promise for services by the kidnapping of a member of the offender's family (to carry out the promised service), and assault by a curse or--at the very least--a thorough pummeling. The Darine consist of two large tribes subdivided into several clans. Each tribe has its own manner of dress, appearance, and traditions, though members of one tribe do acknowledge members of the other as fellow Darine. All clans have at least some fortune tellers and entertainers, and characters of nearly any rogue class. Pure warriors are rare. While the Darine do not have clerics or priests of any organized religion (including that of Zirchev), this role is filled by individuals who function as healers, mystics, or oracles. Most of these are women, especially the elder women. The two distinct Darine tribes (including the subdivision in the Kaldresh tribe) and some related clans include: Kaldresh The Kaldresh tribe consists of two separate subgroups, the Kaldresh and the Manusa. The Kaldresh are "camp followers": tinkers, smiths, animal trainers, and healers. They pride themselves in their ability to supply armies, trade caravans, adventurers, and others with the proper tools needed to defeat enemies, as well as with needed healing after a battle. The Kaldresh have been known to supply both sides in a conflict, not really caring about the disputes of non-Darine, but more interested in making a living. Clans of Kaldresh include the Kamii, Equarr, and Vatraska. The Manusa are the rarest of Darine and are seldom encountered in numbers larger than a single family. They are the most mysterious and reclusive of the Darine and the ones closest to the oldest legends of the race. They are tinkerers in the arcane: amulets, charms, potions, and lore. Rumour says they have the power to bend time and space to their will, and that they know much of ancient evils and how best to ward off or escape them. It is believed that they guarded the Darine from the worst of the ancient curse. Clans of Manusa include the Naiat and the Zarovan. Vistani The Vistani are consummate entertainers. Their camps are rife with bards, dancers, musicians, and con men. They seem to have the ability to turn even the most hostile audience into an adoring crowd, and frequently a charming Vistana can convince an entire village to gamble away months of savings on a rigged game with a smile and a few well-placed words. It is the Vistani who occasionally agree to perform as guides, having seen more of Brun than most Kaldresh clans. In these cases, the Vistana performs exactly according to the contract, not going beyond the letter of the agreement, but not falling short of it, either--although they ae not adverse to negotiating a new contract if the other party wishes, for just a few more coins. . . The Vistani have a darker side; they also hire out as smugglers, kidnappers, and (in a very few instances) assassins, using thier innate charm to circumvent obstacles that stymie others. Like the Kaldresh, the Vistani might accept such assignments from all sides in a conflict, performing what they view as necessary, preordained tasks. Tribes include the Canjar and the Corvara. **Darine Kits follow in a separate post** ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:52:56 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Darine Kits (Darine, part 2) Here are the Darine Kits, the second (and final) part of the Darine post. DARINE KITS There are two primary Darine kits which combine abilities from other, general kits as well as new abilities: the Darine Mystic and the Darine Sharpster. Darine Mystic The Darine Mystic is especially found in the Kaldresh tribe. The character is usually a woman. The Mystic is a master of will over spirit and matter. As such, she is a consummate fortune-teller, charmer, and faith healer, with other abilities similar to those of a Wokani. The Mystic has a gaze attack called the evil eye. This focuses powerful negative emotions--hate, anger, jealousy--against a creature meeting their gaze. The attack is usable thrice per day, and can manifest in one of five ways. The most common are a hold (person or monster) or a curse (though fear, charm, and suggestion effects are not unknown). To avoid the effect, the target must save vs. paralyzation. Failure against any except the curse afflicts the creature for 1d4+1 rounds; failing against the hold by 4 or more inflicts disabling convulsions upon the victim for three rounds. The curse effect is similar to the reverse of the 4th-level wizard spell remove curse. It can affect either a creature or an item, but the curse itself must be spoken. Mystics advance as clerics, with the Hit Dice of a wizard, though with an additional 2 hp per level. They can automatically cast the first-level priest spell cure light wounds three times a day, as well as the first-level wizard spell charm person once a day. The Mystic can also make brews and philtres, including potions and poisons of various effects and durations (these must always be liquid, and act as the potions of the magical item list in the DMG). The Mystic can make one such potion per week. Mystics for the purposes of spellcasting progress as priests, though with a difference: the spells the Mystic receives at first level are first-level priest spells. Additional spells received at second level are first-level wizard spells. Spells received at third level are second level priest spells, and so on, to the fifth level of spellcasting. In other words, Level Spells Received 1 One L1 priest (P) spell 2 One L1 priest (P) spell, one L1 wizard (W) spell 3 One L1 P, one L1 W, one L2 P 4 Two L1 P, one L1 W, one L2 P, one L2 W 5 Two L1 P, one L1 W, two L2 P, one L2 W, one L3 P 6 Two L1 P, one L1 W, two L2 P, one L2 W, one L3 P, one L3 W 7 Two L1 P, one L1 W, two L2 P, one L2 W, one L3 P, one L3 W, one L4 P 8 Two L1 P, one L1 W, two L2 P, one L2 W, two L3 P, one L3 W, one L4 P, one L4 W 9 Two L1 P, two L1 W, two L2 P, two L2 W, two L3 P, one L3 W, one L4 P, one L4 W, one L5 P 10 Two L1 P, two L1 W, two L2 P, two L2 W, two L3 P, one L3 W, two L4 P, one L4 W, one L5 P, one L5 W 11+ --No additional spells are granted past this level-- Mystics may not carry or use any weapon other than a small sickle-shaped dagger with which to cut herbs for potions.   Darine Sharpster This character is usually found among the Vistani. The Sharpster can be a man or a woman, but is typically a man. The Sharpster is a talented charmer, confidence man, pilferer, and entertainer (usually of the hand-is-quicker-than-the-eye variety). Sharpsters are, first and foremost, con-men. They specialize in all sorts of tricks and games designed to liven spirits and to earn a living (what gorgio morality says of this way to earn a living is of no consequence to a Darine, anyway). To this end, Sharpsters can automatically cast the first-level wizard spells charm person and alter self an unlimited number of times per day, and the third-level spell suggestion three times per week. They gain +5% to the thief ability Pick Pockets, and know Thieves' Cant wherever they travel regularly. They can also influence crowd reactions as a bard, whereupon when the Sharpster is addressing a crowd the audience must save vs. paralyzation, with a -3 penalty for every three experience levels of the Sharpster. Should the saving throw fail, the group's reaction is automatically shifted to friendly; those who save feel animosity toward the Sharpster, suspecting the nature of his scheme. Sharpsters advance as thieves, and may use the weapons of that class. Some Sharpsters have been known to be multiclass fighter/thieves, but never mage/thieves or fighter/mage/thieves. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:53:49 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Krondahar and Bramyra, part 1 (long) This is an overview of the Principalities of Krondahar amd Bramyra that I did a while back, expanding upon the info in the Gaz and boxed set. This part contains general info, physical characteristics, military, legal, etc. Feel free to link or post; as always, the html version is at my site. Jenn PRINCIPALITIES OF KRONDAHAR AND BRAMYRA (GLANTRI) RULERS (TITLES) Bramyra: Prince Urmahid Krinagar (Chancellor of Princes, Count of Skullhorn Pass, Dream Master of the Fourth Circle) Krondahar: Prince Jherek Virayana IV (Khan of Singhabad, Supreme Judge of the Council, High Master of Dream Magic) SIEGES Bramyra: Skullhorn Krondahar: Singhabad ROYAL FAMILIES Bramyra: Rinnath (wife), Terrigis (daughter), Lan-Syn Virayana (sister), Prince Jherek Virayana of Krondahar (Lan-Syn's husband) Krondahar: Lady Lan-Syn (wife), Lady Aleah (wife), Lady Waira (wife), Sir Ralindi (son), Sir Rejladan (son), Sir Jherek (son), Prince Urmahid Krinagar (Lan-Syn's brother) AREA Bramyra: 120 sq. mi. Krondahar: 160 sq. mi. POPULATION Bramyra: 7,450 Krondahar: 24,860 CAPITALS Bramyra: Bramyra (pop. 2,300) Krondahar: Braastar (pop. 6,900) BRIEF HISTORY Bramyra: Enfoeffed in AC 1003 as a buffer against raids from Ethengar. Prince Urmahid, a member of Prince Jherek's family, was formerly a spy for Glantri in Ethengar and was a personal enemy of the Great Khan. Krondahar: One of Glantri's original principalities, settled by wizards exiled from Ethengar for their wizardry.   PHYSICAL CHARACTERISTICS *GEOGRAPHICAL OVERVIEW The Colossus Mounts bar the way between Glantri and its longtime foe to the east, the Khanates of Ethengar. Many ancient battles were fought amont these peaks, and the battlefields remain--many of them reportedly haunted. Among the tallest mountains in the area, some of the Colossus peaks reach 25,000 feet or more. Most of the time, clouds obscure the tops of the tallest ones, so mapmakers can only estimate their height. Large valleys lie nestled where mountains meet. Hills rolls ceaselessly like waves across the terrain. Both these features demonstrate the land type most common in central Glantri: grassland. Visitors find extensive farming in these valleys, including the Vesubia River Valley (extending from the Broken Lands north to the towns of Glenmoorloch and Vorstadt). The grasslands in most valleys boast rich soil and mild weather, allowing farmers to raise a variety of crops. The hills of Glantri, too pronounced to make good farmland, prove excellent pasture for grazing cattle, sheep, and goats. All manner of high grasses, thistles, large ferns, and juniper grow in the hills, along with briars and hawthornes. Hidden among these plants are rare herbs useful in medicines and magical preparations. Navigating the hills is no easy task; strangers find it easy to lose their way. The trails are few, and the sheer number of high hills in the haphazard patterns makes it difficult to travel a straight line. Bramyra: Bramyra lies in eastern Glantri, in the foothills of the Colossus Mounts bordering the Ethengar Khanates. The land is mostly covered in grassy hills, which slope downward, losing height as they gradually fade into the flat grasslands of the international border and Ethengar. The Prince's siege, Skullhorn, is a large fortress in the western part of the principality--at the base of the pass into the mountains and the Glantrian interior. The capital, Bramyra, sits along the border in the plain. Krondahar: Krondahar, in east-central Glantri, consists mostly of lowland plains to the west along the Vesubia River valley, low hills in the central part of the principality, and mountains in the east, where the Colossus Mounts border the principality. The Prince's siege, Singhabad, stands in the foothills in east-central Krondahar, with the nearby mountains making for dramatic scenery. The capital, Braastar, lies on the Vesubia in the western flatlands. *CLIMATE AND ENVIRONMENT Bramyra: Summers in Bramyra are mild, with high temperatures usually ranging in the 50s and 60s. Winds typically come from the south or southeast, which means that Bramyra is directly in its path. These winds can grow quite strong, bringing hail and electrical storms. In the Skullhorn Pass, the winds blow hard enough to whip up small stones and pebbles, creating a deadly, rocky hailstorm. Strong winds can also expose Bramyra to prairie fires which rage routinely in neighboring Ethengar in late summer. In winter, snowfall is heavy enough in most areas to block mountain passes, making even the best roads unusable. Krondahar: Krondahar enjoys the shelter of the mountains during fall and winter, although the freezing of the Vesubia River at this time makes trade and travel difficult. Spring is treacherous in Krondahar: Rain often chokes roadways with mud, and the Vesubia frequently overflows its banks, although floodwaters seldom rise dangerously high.   *ECONOMICA IMPORTS Bramyra: Precious woods, tea, coffee, ivory, semiprecious stones, gold, gems, horses. Krondahar: Tobacco, tea, coffee, ivory, semiprecious stones, gold, gems, horses, rare books. EXPORTS Bramyra: Potatoes, turnips, cattle, basketry, woodwork. Krondahar: Silk, fine leather goods, mounts (special miniature breed), spices, cattle, metalwork, jewelry.   *EDUCATION, DEFENSE, AND LAW EDUCATION Bramyra: Following the efforts of his brother-in-law Prince Jherek, Prince Urmahid has implemented compulsory testing for magical ability among his young subjects, but has not yet (nor does he plan to) founded any formal school to train those who demonstrate magical aptitude. Krondahar: Prince Jherek has instituted compulsory testing for all his subjects for magical ability between the ages of six and seven years. Males who demonstrate magical ability must attend a public school until age thirteen; females, if their father or closest male relative permits, may learn from a female tutor or attend a cloistered school for girls in Braastar until they are of a marriageable age. The school for boys, Jehangir Academy, teaches boys to read and write in both Ethengarian and Thyatian, to read magic, melee and self-defense (armed and unarmed), court etiquette, and how to properly acquit their positions as representatives of Krondahar. The school for girls, Prince Jherek Virayana II Convent for Girls, teaches girls with magical aptitude how to read and write in both Ethengarian and Thyatian, to read magic, court etiquette and how to properly serve family and guests, and how to keep the codes of feminine behavior. MILITARY Bramyra: Prince Urmahid is Count of Skullhorn Pass, and hence commander of Skullhorn Pass Camp (in the mountains; Urmahid does not actually administer the camp--that dubious honour falls to Sir Duncan McGregor, Captain of the Skullhorn Pass Camp). As such, Urmahid controls the Camp garrison of 500 infantry, plus the Skullhorn garrison of 120 elite cavalry-based archers. He also keeps 60 personal guard on hand to maintain order among the principality's small populace. Krondahar: Prince Jherek, as Supreme Judge of the Council, commands the Constabulary of Glantri, and controls all armies and militia stationed in the capital to defend the city and maintain order, as well as to patrol the Isoile and Vesubia River valleys up to 48 miles away. He maintains a personal garrison of 150 infantry and 50 cavalry with lances (soldiers of this garrison regularly patrol the land), plus 15 city guards in Braastar and 10 elite guards for personal defense. LEGAL OVERVIEW Bramyra: Bramyra follows Glantrian law, plus most of the laws of Krondahar, as passed down to Prince Jherek by his predecessors. There is one major exception: despite hosilities and political suspicions, Bramyra relies heavily upon trade with Ethengar for its survival; therefore, charges of dealing in contraband (any Ethengarian merchandise) are not taken seriously in Bramyra. Krondahar: Prince Jherek is the Supreme Judge of the Council of Princes, and as such submits all new laws to the Council and enforces them at every level. He is a stern but fair man, and enforces the law using a rigid, traditional method of interpretation. Thus, Krondahar follows Glantrian law to the letter, supplementing it with traditional Ethengarian laws which his family brought with them when they immigrated to Glantri centuries ago. Most remarkable among these laws are the codes which apply to the legal status and treatment of women. Women are citizens in Krondahar, though they are still considered the private property of their fathers or husbands (or closest male relative). Lines of succession are drawn through male descendants. Polygamy is legal and practiced among the nobility (poorer families would be hard-pressed to add extra mouths to feed); the typical Krondaharan / Ethengarian nobleman has three to four wives. Traditionally, the honour of the family relies on the wife's good conduct and fidelity. The man is the patriarchal family authority, provider, and the source of the family's well-being. The wife is subject to the husband's orders, and may be beaten or raped if she does not submit to her husband's will. According to the law, a man is entitled to the following from his wife/wives: (1) Fidelity; (2) Obedience according to the accepted standards; (3) Breast-feeding, if possible, of the children born from the marriage; (4) The management of the household and its organization; and (5) Deference towards the parents and close relatives of the husband. However, the wife has legal rights as well, and must receive the following from her husband: (1) Financial support as stated by law, such as food, clothing, housing, and medical care; (2) The right to be treated equally with other wives; (3) The authorization to visit her parents and the right to receive them according to the limits imposed by the accepted standards; (4) Complete liberty to administer and dispose of her possessions with no control on the part of the husband, the latter having no power over his wife's possessions. The husband has control over divorce from his wives. In traditional Ethengarian law, he may declare himself divorced without any court appearance; in Krondahar (and Bramyra), the husband must appear before the court and declare his divorce and the reason(s). The husband retains all custodial rights, although it is becoming common for men to allow their wives to keep children until the age of six (when they are tested for magical ability). It is also legal for a man to divorce a wife if she does not bear him sons, since this is her highest purpose (interestingly, neither prince has put away their wives Rinnath and Lan-Syn). Recent laws also require the husband to obtain the consent of the first wife before taking subsequent wives and before legally acknowledging any bastard-born children, although the law does not define consent or specify how it is to begotten. *continued* ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #7 ****************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, January 15 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 008 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - My Stuff [MYSTARA] - Bio: Prince Jherek Virayana IV [MYSTARA] - Krondahar and Bramyra, part 2 (long) [MYSTARA] - Bio: Lan-Syn Virayana [MYSTARA] - Bio: Aleah Virayana [MYSTARA] - Bio: Waira Virayana [MYSTARA] - Traladaran Culture (long) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:54:34 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: [MYSTARA] - My Stuff Hi all! I am about to post a bunch of articles from my web page, as per my query of earlier. Inlcuded will be my developments of Krondaharan and Traladaran culture, the Darine, Jherek Virayana and his family's bios, our War Priest kit, the elven clans, and rulers of Alphatia since Landfall. I am leaving out a couple of things that you can still find at my site, including the Solar Sytem alternate (the table won't paste right), KW cultural comparisons to RW, names, the quiz, and a few other things. The magical weapons and the Marauder kit for Soderfjord are Ariel's, so we'll have to see if he'll post those. ;-) So, sorry if I clogged your in-boxes, but I *do* hope that you enjoy. I hope to have new stuff soon, as soon as I have some free time! 8-)~ Jenn Explore Dark Myst Manor! http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:56:34 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Bio: Prince Jherek Virayana IV This is a bio of Jherek as I use him in my campaign; an expansion of the bio included in the G:KoM set. *N-C WARNING*: I have also included the stats as I use them (*please* don't write to point out that he doesn't have an 18 INT in the books, I know this). Again, feel free to link to this on my site, or copy it to your page, just give credit. ;-) Jenn JHEREK VIRAYANA IV (Prince of Krondahar, Khan of Singhabad, Supreme Judge of the Council, High Master of Dream Magic) Prince Jherek, born in AC 958 to Prince Jherek Virayana III and San-Jai Mahka Virayana (his favourite wife--the prince later built a lavish tomb to honour her memory which is considered a marvel of modern architecture), took the throne of his thriving principality AC 989 when his father fell to his death while climbing the treacherous "Naked Mountain" (a 1400-foot sheer cliff wall that not even snow clings to) in search of the elusive "snowtree" (a fabled crystalline plant which only grows high in the Colossus Mounts, and which has the consternating habit of melting before it can be brought down to the lowlands for study). Jherek inherited his passion for learning and education from his father, and studied magic at the Great School, where he specialized in illusions. While at the School, he stumbled across the Secret Craft of Dream Magic, and realized that he had found his true calling. Having founded numerous schools, art galleries, and libraries, Jherek believes himself a very civilized man, never once seeing the hypocrisy in his culture's treatment of women. The prince, in fact, has three wives and an estimated twenty concubines. His wives are Lady Lan-Syn (his secret favourite and true love/best friend), Lady Aleah, and Lady Waira. Jherek has two legitimate sons, Sir Ralindi (by Aleah) and Sir Rejladan (by Waira), as well as numerous illegitimate sons and daughters by his concubines. Prince Jherek has gained fame for the sumptuous banquets he holds for visiting nobles. He also enjoys organizing "monster hunts" into the Colossus Mounts. Mountain tigers are the usual prey, although sometimes parties hunt convicts and enemies of Krondahar instead. "Prey" that manages to survive an entire day receives clemency. PERSONALITY. Jherek is a calm and confident man, who carries himself with an air of dignity uncommon among the Glantrian nobility (i.e., not done simply to impress). Jherek is not a difficult man to understand: He wants the best for his people and his realm, the best for Glantri, and the best for his sons, whom he loves above all else (including himself). He takes whatever action proves necessary to help that which he loves and seems not overly concerned with personal honour or prestige. He is open-minded and fair (less so toward women), but is quick to crush those who cross him. APPEARANCE. Jherek is a man of average height (5'10"), who keeps his build lean and muscular. He has dark brown hair, lighter brown eyes, and a long, thin, drooping mustache. He prefers to keep his sallow skin tanned with frequent trips into the mountains. Jherek dresses like an Ethengarian lord (perhaps falsely fostering the connection between himself and the Khanates which plagues the paranoid spirits of some princes of Glantri), in long, ornate robes and headgear (the malgai hat--made of plush with a velvet upturned brim and pointed crown). In the winter, he wears costumes decorated with much fur (he prefers silver fox). Prince Jherek also adheres to an ancient Ethengarian custom which declares that a man grows his hair and does not cut his braid (which may be decorated with tiny bells or beads for dress occasions) until he is beaten in combat (Jherek changes this to "until he is beaten in a magical duel"). Needless to say, Prince Jherek still has his braid. WHAT HE SAYS. Patience and careful interaction with others are the secrets to remember, my son. Vengeance and betrayal bring you little but heartaches and enemies (to eldest son Ralindi). WHAT OTHERS SAY. He must be up to something (Count Alasdair McAllister of Klantyre).   JHEREK VIRAYANA (20th-level Illusionist/High Master of Dream Magic): AC 2 (Ring of Protection, Dexterity bonus); Thac0 9 (Weapon Expertise, staff +3); Saves (include ring of protection bonus) ppd 8 / rsw 3 / pp 5 / bw 7 / sp 2 ; hp 48; Damage 1d6+6 (Weapon Expertise, staff +3); SA Weapon Expertise (staff), Spells, Dream Master powers; STR 14 / DEX 17 / CON 14 / INT 18 / WIS 16 / CHR 16 ; AL N; ML 15. Languages: Ethengarian, Thyatian, Belcadiz, Caurenzian, Kaelic, Averoignian. Proficiencies: Spellcraft, Astrology, Meditation, Read/Write, Riding (Land), Hunting, Etiquette, Artistic Ability (Architectural Design), Engineering. Spells: Level One--Audible Glamer, Burning Hands, Color Spray, Phantasmal Force, Soothe the Beast, Unseen Servant. Level Two--Mirror Image, Deafness, Finery and Freshness, Hypnotic Pattern, Improved Phantasmal Force, Knock, Scare. Level Three--Alternate Reality, Blink, Fly, Phantom Steed, Spectral Force, Suggestion. Level Four--Confusion, Improved Invisibility, Phantasmal Killer, Dimension Door, Fear, Fumble, Hallucinatory Terrain, Shadow Monsters. Level Five--Advanced Illusion, Faithful Hound, Shadow Magic, Demi-Shadow Monsters, Hold Monster, Shadow Door, Dream, Seeming, Feeblemind. Level Six--Eyebite, Shades, Demi-Shadow Magic, Programmed Illusion, Project Image. Level Seven--Magnificent Mansion, Simulacrum, Phase Door, Prismatic Spray, Shadow Walk. Level Eight--Polymorph Any Object, Permanency, Screen. Level Nine--Weird. Dream Master Abilities: Hypnosis (3x/day); Dream Alteration (2x/day); Delirium Tremens (1x/day); Dream Travel (1x/week); Dreamlands (1x/month). Known Magical Items: Staff of Striking (fully charged), Carpet of Flying, Ring of Blissful Slumber, Ring of protection +5 / +2 to saves. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:55:46 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Krondahar and Bramyra, part 2 (long) Here is the final part of the overview of Krondahar and Bramyra. Jenn CULTURE Note: The cultural heritage and development of Bramyra and Krondahar are nearly indistinguishable. Therefore, information in this section is presented in a unified format; notable differences will be treated within.] FOOD Peasants in Bramyra and Krondahar eat, generally-speaking, the same vegetable-laden diet typical of the Glantrian low-born. The culinary habits of the nobility, however, are exceedingly lavish. Although the nobles of House Singhabad are of Ethengarian descent, once in Glantri they found Ethengarian food far too austere to serve to courtiers accustomed to the cuisine of exotic Belcadiz, subtle Nouvelle Averoigne, or spicy Caurenze. So court cooks added liberal amounts of cream, ghee (clarified butter), yoghurt (for which Krondahar is famous), spices, raisins, and nuts to meat dishes, pullaos (rice dishes), and samosas (savory filled pastries). They developed their own delicacies and cooking methods, as well. The number of meat dishes were increased and often included spiced meats ground with wheat. Slowly braising meats or vegetables with a spiced yoghurt and butter sauce in a tightly-sealed pan--a preparation known as dumpukht--is associated with Krondaharan cuisine. Tikkas--spiced and barbecued beef, mutton, or chicken--are also popular. Vegetable dishes include dhal (lentil mush), spicy spinach, cabbage, and peas. Baked and deep-fried breads, such as roti, chapattis, puri, halwa, and nan, pepper the menu. Those early cooks also developed their share of sweets: the rich, mountain-frozen confection known as kulfi (made of ground almonds and pistachios, cream and sugar, and flavored with saffron), and the jilebi, a swirl of fried pastry soaked in sugar syrup. The most common sweet is barfi (it pays to overlook the name), which is made of dried milk solids and comes in a variety of flavours. To wash it all down, there are a very few brewers in Braastar, but their fare rivals that of Berghdoven to the northwest. Tea with milk is appreciated and loved by everybody, in any season. Tea is an essential part of the daily diet. DRESS Class also determines, to an extent, how one dresses in Bramyra and Krondahar. The peasantry fashions their clothing--usually plain brown or grey homespun tunics and trousers or belted robes--themselves, and they tend therefore to resemble the peasant class anywhere. Members of the nobility, however, tend to their own personal tastes. Prince Urmahid Krinagar prefers to dress in a Glantrian manner: tunics in greys and blacks with gold trim, loose-fitting black pants, and a dark grey cloak with a hood. He is extremely fond of gold jewellry. His wife, Rinnath, dresses in traditional Ethengarian clothing, although she tends toward the plainer del (traditional robe) of western Ethengar, which is very free and loose-fitting, with a large collar. Prince Jherek Virayana dresses like an Ethengarian lord, in long, ornate robes and headgear (the malgai hat--made of plush with a velvet upturned brim and pointed crown). In the winter, he wears costumes decorated with much fur (he prefers silver fox). Prince Jherek also adheres to an ancient Ethengarian custom which declares that a man grows his hair and does not cut his braid (which may be decorated with tiny bells or beads for dress occasions) until he is beaten in combat (Jherek changes this to "until he is beaten in a magical duel"). Needless to say, Prince Jherek still has his braid. Lady Lan-Syn, Jherek's first wife, also dresses in the traditional manner of central and eastern Ethengar: a del with high shoulders and the collar, hem, and sleeves decorated with intricate designs. On formal occasions, Lady Lan-Syn styles her head-dress by combing her hair smoothly back and fastening it with silver and gold grips, then mounting the arrangement with strung pearls and gems. Lady Aleah, Prince Jherek's second wife, prefers to dress in a Glantrian manner except on the most formal of occasions, when she can be coaxed into a formal del. Lady Waira, Jherek's third wife, dresses in the western Ethengarian style, much the same as Rinnath Krinagar (above). ARTS AND LITERATURE Prince Jherek is fond of the arts and literature in all forms, although he prefers paintings in the Glantrian style (flattering to personages of high prestige) and a mix of scholastic and poetic literature above all else. Prince Urmahid loves music, especially traditional Ethengarian folk music and dances, which tend toward the lusty and vigorous. Both princes sponsor the arts, although Prince Jherek has actually founded numerous art galleries in Krondahar (admittedly, most of them are within his palaces at Singhabad.) ARCHITECTURE The domain of architecture is where Bramyra and Krondahar pull away from their Ethengarian roots. In Ethengar, there are few, if any, truly permanent structures; conversely, Bramyra and Krondahar (especially Krondahar) are renowned for their breathtaking architecture. While the palace in Bramyra is impressive, it is Krondahar which so far has cornered the market on extravagance: Prince Jherek and his ancestors built the lavish and ambitious palace fortresses, administrative buildings, and tombs that have become emblematic of the principality. The most famous of these is the Taj Mahka, the tomb built by Prince Jherek Virayana III to honour his favourite wife, San-Jai Mahka Virayana. Another distinctive building is the Barak-i-Ortu, a monument to the great general. The great dome of the monument is claimed to be the largest of its kind in the world. And, of course, Singhabad Fortress itself is awe-inspiring, with its fortified walls surrounding stately palaces, halls, library towers, and gardens. Perhaps a little truer to the name of "fortress" is the fortress at the entrance to Skullhorn Pass, built by Singhabad builders in conjunction with the Glantrian government: here, massive twin towers are spanned by an arching gateway jammed with artillery. But even military builders cannot resist adding a distinctive touch: the foundation stones of the towers as well as the keystone of the archway are carved with intricate, traditional designs. Visitors to the region interested in mountaineering might want to make a visit to two of the most treacherous climbs in Brun: Nanga Parbat and Ghonoghoro-La. Nanga Parbat ("Naked Mountain") has a 1,400-foot wall that is so steep the even snow refuses to stick (the same can be said of a number of climbers). Ghonoghoro-La (also known as "Stoneface") is the second tallest mountain in Glantri (the highest, Mt. de Glace, is in the Glantrian Alps), at 24,350 feet. SOCIAL CUSTOMS An especially interesting Bramyran/Krondaharan custom is the marriage ceremony. This ceremony is conducted not to marry the couple, but upon completion of the marriage contract (so, in fact, the couple is already married at the time). The groom stands, in full Ethengarian finery, on a dais at the head of a lavishly-appointed feast room, with a large crowd of family and friends present. The bride, covered head-to-toe (it is not possible to see any part of her, save her hands, which are decorated in her dowry jewelry) in long robes embroidered in many festive colours, enters and is escorted by a relative to her new husband. The husband lifts the wife's veil and looks upon her, for the first time in many cases (it is actually quite amusing to see the anxiety on the bridegrooms' faces at this moment). Then, finding her satisfactory, he turns her to face the crowd, signifying that he has accepted her as his wife. (It has happened that husbands have been very displeased with their wives at this time; in these cases, the husband leaves, and the girl--who averages about 14 or 15 years old--is left to deal with the shame of rejection). A great feast ensues, and concludes three to six full days later with the procession to the bridal chamber. (Note: This ceremony is Ethengarian/noble in origin and in the principalities is typically performed only on the occasion that a nobleman takes his first wife.) PASTIMES Pastimes in Bramyra and Krondahar tend to be much the same as anywhere in Glantri, although residents of Bramyra are widely infamous for their raucous partying. A great pastime in Krondahar is hunting, especially of mountain tigers (Prince Jherek, to this day, has captured 112). (Prince Jherek also occasionally organizes hunts of convicts in the mountains for his noble friends--if the prisoner survives a full day and night, he is granted a pardon. In thirty years, two men have been pardoned). Recently, the art of belly-dancing is becoming popular among the rich, who maintain a number of concubines in their households. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:58:21 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Bio: Lan-Syn Virayana LADY LAN-SYN VIRAYANA Lan-Syn was born in Braastar, Krondahar, in AC 970. Her father was Ranjit Krinagar, a Krondaharan nobleman and good friend of then-prince Jherek Virayana III; her mother, Medu-An, was Ranjit's strong-willed, high-born first wife. Lan-Syn and her older brothers, Urmahid and Khahak, grew up happy and confident, lavished with their permissive father's attention and surrounded by the love of their mother, two lesser wives, and their few half-brothers and sisters. The thirteen-year-old Lan-Syn developed a close friendship with the prince's son, Jherek Virayana IV (her brother Urmahid's twenty-five year-old best friend) when Urmahid left to operate as a spy in Ethengar for the Council of Princes; Lan-Syn was terrified for her brother, and relied heavily upon Jherek for emotional support. The relationship scandalized Krondaharan nobility--it is just not proper or fitting for a high-born young lady to mix with men, no matter what the nature of the relationship. Ranjit allowed the friendship to continue for a while, but when his business began to suffer because of the disgrace, he was finally forced to put an end to the situation. He spoke to Prince Jherek, who advised his son, who was now a student at the Great School of Magic, to break off all communication with Lan-Syn. Jherek complied, and Lan-Syn was shattered. She withdrew from all her friends and family, and her mother--fearing for her daughter's life--pleaded with Ranjit to allow Lan-Syn and Jherek to continue their friendship. Ranjit stood his ground; he had a family to support through his business, and he would not lose his livelihood because of a spoiled child. At long last, the man lost his temper, and Lan-Syn was beaten and confined to her rooms. But Lan-Syn had her mother's spirit--she not only escaped, she ran away to Glantri City, where she gained entry into the Great School. She took advantage of her property-control rights to use her intricate gold and silver jewelry (intended as a future dowry) for tuition. Ranjit was completely scandalized. He had no choice; he turned to his friend, Prince Jherek, and asked for advice. The prince spoke to his son, who promptly took Lan-Syn as his first wife (young Jherek was not exactly dismayed at this reaction; he had had his eye on the tempestuous Lan-Syn for a while now). Jherek allowed Lan-Syn to continue in her magical studies, although he insisted that she learn at home, under his own guidance. In time, he also taught his wife (who proved to be nearly as adept at Illusion magic as was Jherek himself) the Secret Craft of Dream Magic. Soon after his father was killed in a falling accident and he took control of Krondahar, Jherek developed a passion for a woman named Aleah--an accomplished thief whom he had met through Lan-Syn's brother Urmahid. When he asked Lan-Syn for her consent to their marriage, Lan-Syn assented with great poise and dignity, as she did two years later when Jherek wished to marry Waira, although she deeply resents both women for "seducing" her husband. PERSONALITY. Over the years, Lan-Syn has been careful to maintain with her husband the strong friendship which brought them together, although she is no longer the passionate, headstrong girl she once was. She loves Jherek more than life (as he, indeed, loves her), and understands that he finds it necessary to marry again, as well as to keep numerous concubines (that is to say, she understands her native customs, although she does not necessarily agree with them). However, the prince will never know how deeply jealous she is of the others, especially Aleah, and how much it breaks her heart that she was never able to give him the son he wanted. APPEARANCE. Lan-Syn is a woman of classic beauty, with strong features, high cheekbones, and sharp eyes. She is tall (5'9") and statuesque, with an hourglass figure that belies her years (Lan-Syn does, in fact, take potions of longevity, and appears to be about thirty-five years of age). She has dark brown hair and golden-brown eyes, which offset the slightly pale, golden hue of her skin. Lan-Syn dresses in the traditional manner of central and eastern Ethengar: a del with high shoulders and the collar, hem, and sleeves decorated with intricate designs. On formal occasions, she styles her headdress by fastening her hair with silver and gold grips, then mounting the arrangement with strung pearls and gems. In public, she frequently wears a sheer silk scarf over her hair for reasons of modesty. On all occasions, Lan-Syn carries herself with the quiet grace and submissive dignity which have made her a nearly-legendary figure among Krondaharan commoners. WHAT SHE SAYS. Of course, sir, I shall do as my lord husband wishes in any matter (To a visiting petty noble who drunkenly and brazenly suggested that Jherek share Lan-Syn with him for the evening. The enraged prince graciously made the man the "main event" in the next day's hunt). WHAT OTHERS SAY. How any Averoignian poseur can be in the same room with her and still believe themselves to have even an ounce of class is beyond me. (Princess Carnelia de Belcadiz y Fedorias, a longtime friend of Lan-Syn)   LAN-SYN VIRAYANA (17th-level Illusionist / Dream Master of the Fourth Circle): AC 3 (Ring of protection, Dexterity bonus); Thac0 14; Saves (include Ring of protection bonus) ppd 8 / rsw 3 / pp 5 / bw 7 / sp 4 ; hp 39; Damage (by Spell); STR 11 / DEX 16 / CON 12 / INT 17 / WIS 13 / CHR 15 ; AL CN; ML 13. Languages: Ethengarian, Thyatian, Belcadiz Proficiencies: Read/Write, Spellcraft, Meditation, Astrology, Etiquette Spells: [As Lan-Syn has learned her magic from Jherek, she has the same spells as he, according to her level.] Dream Master Abilities: Hypnosis (3x/day); Dream Alteration (2x/day); Delirium Tremens (1x/day); Dream Travel (1x/week). Known Magical Items: Ring of Protection +5 /+2 to Saves; Wand of Illusion (fully charged; a gift from Jherek, the wand is inlaid in gold and gem dust) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:58:59 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Bio: Aleah Virayana Here is Aleah's bio. A couple of notes: first of all, I don't know if OD&D has thief abilities or not; we use AD&D rules, so I have included them here anyway. Second note: WARNING--Aleah is quite a handful, and is very much a wicked seductress. If you don't like stuff like this (nothing explicit, only a little risque), you might want to skip Aleah. 'Nuff said. Jenn LADY ALEAH VIRYANA Aleah was born in Glantri City in AC 970, the daughter of a minor noble Krondaharan silk-trader and his second, Makistanian (Ylari-Ethengarian) wife. All through her younger years, Aleah was nothing but trouble, running with rougher and rougher crowds in the capital, stealing first from expensive shops and boutiques (the owners of which discreetly charged her stolen items to her wealthy father), and then apartments and houses of the nobility. She was finally arrested, at seventeen, after breaking into the apartment of a Boldavian lord in order to gain proof of his vampirism so that she could blackmail him, for the fun of it (Aleah always does things for the "fun" of it). Her father disowned her and disavowed her existence. Aleah, having always been wild but still with a good streak, now went completely bad. She quit thieving and began to make waves on the Glantri City social scene, using her looks and her body to claw and backstab her way to fortune. She had brief flings with many men (all of whom sorely regretted it afterward), including Urmahid Krinagar of Krondahar. Aleah came to the attention of Prince Jherek Virayana IV in 989 when Urmahid introduced them at one of his infamously wild parties. Smelling a way to put herself back on top and spite her father, she poured all her wicked ways into Jherek's seduction (the prince was interested in her sexually, but had no desire to be married to anyone other than his wife, Lan-Syn). She maintained his interest with mind games, never letting him have her. Finally, Jherek, his mind fevered with lust for Aleah and the desire to break this sibyl to his will, married her. Aleah was triumphant. Little did she know what she had gotten herself into. Jherek, an extremely conservative and traditional man, increasingly resented after the marriage that a mere woman had been able to play him like a deck of cards. Slowly, methodically, and with great cruelty at times, Jherek broke Aleah, crushing her spirit and taming her like a wild animal. Then, just as slowly, as if to savour the experience, Jherek built her back up, into the woman he now wanted as his second wife. A year later, Aleah gave birth to Ralindi, Jherek's firstborn legitimate son. It infuriated her to the point of threatened rebellion against her husband that he did not name the child after himself (a family tradition that stretches back to Jherek Virayana I, who founded Krondahar), instead preferring to wait for Lan-Syn to give birth. Aleah spent three days imprisoned in Jherek's fortress in the Demiplane of Nightmares for this offense. She never said another word against Jherek, his wives, or his decisions again. PERSONALITY. Aleah is, like others of Chaotic and Evil alignments, only impressed by sheer force; therefore, she finally affords her husband a respect borne of fear. She treats Ralindi and Rejladan (Waira's son) with the cool respect owed to them as their father's progeny, though she has never shown any genuine interest in her son outside of Jherek's presence. The other wives--Lan-Syn and Waira--receive only basic politeness around Jherek, and calculated ignoredness otherwise. To everyone else, Aleah plays her master-role: the dangerous seductress. She has actually completely mastered this role since marrying Jherek, since the pressure to perform sexually at the end of the seduction has been utterly removed (Aleah wouldn't dare be unfaithful). Aleah enjoys controlling the objects of her attention, and can be brutally cruel if they do not respond exactly as she wishes. APPEARANCE. Thanks to potions of longevity, Aleah still appears to be the same sultry, twenty-year-old dominatrix she was when she and Jherek met. She inherited her mother's half-Alasiyan looks--black hair worn long and straight or pulled severely back in a spiked silver clip, smoky grey eyes, and dusky skin. She is of average build (5'7"), but voluptuous. Aleah prefers clothing in the Glantrian style (although Jherek can coax her into traditional Ethengarian robes for formal occasions), with low necklines and tight waists. WHAT SHE SAYS. I believe that one of the servants has neglected her duties today, husband. Shall I get the whip? WHAT OTHERS SAY. That is the most bewitching, unsettling, and unladylike woman I have ever met. It would be sheer pleasure to see her again (Dominick Haaskinz, upon meeting Aleah for the first time).   ALEAH VIRAYANA (12th-level thief): AC 3 (Ring of protection, Dexterity bonus); Thac0 11 (Dagger +3, weapon proficiency); Saves ppd 11 / rsw 10 / pp 10 / bw 14 / sp 11; hp 45; Damage 1d4+5 (Dagger +3, weapon proficiency); STR 11 / DEX 16 / CON 13 / INT 12 / WIS 15 / CHR 11; AL CE; ML 9. Languages: Ethengarian, Thyatian Proficiencies: Read/Write, Etiquette, Endurance, Climbing, Rope Use, Tumbling, Dancing Thief Abilities: Pick Pockets 80 / Open Locks 75 / Find and Remove Traps 25 / Move Silently 70 / Hide in Shadows 40 / Detect Noise 25 / Climb Walls 80 / Read Languages -0- / Backstab x4 Known Magical Items: Ring of Protection +5, Dagger +3 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:00:02 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Bio: Waira Virayana Here's Waira...compared to Aleah she's a churchmouse, but I think she's interesting. :-) Jenn LADY WAIRA VIRAYANA Waira, born in AC 976, is the daughter of the ultra-rich Krondaharan spice and silk dealer Arghun Subutar and his fifth wife, Ni-Jin. Growing up, Waira was very close to her shy and loving mother, who was browbeaten and shunned by Arghun's other, jealous, wives. But Arghun genuinely loved Ni-Jin, and defied convention (having more than four wives is considered extremely arrogant) to marry her; he was gentle and caring with her, and adored young Waira above all but his eldest son. So Waira grew up secure and confident, and with a fairly high view of (or at least certainly no bad opinions of) marrying as a lower wife. At the age of fourteen, she was betrothed to the new Prince of Krondahar, Jherek Virayana IV, as his third wife. Jherek had married his second wife, Aleah, only two years before, and had an infant son by her. But it was commonly known that Aleah was no mother: Jherek needed a mother for Ralindi as well as a woman who would bear him more sons. Waira's father, pleased at having made such a prestigious match for his darling daughter, sent her off to Singhabad with her sumptuous dowry jewelry and trousseau; it was Waira's first time away from home. On the wedding night, Jherek made it clear to Waira that there would be no emotional attachments of the kind her parents had enjoyed; he was kind, but distant, and frightened Waira with vague threats of discipline if she did not obey his wishes. Waira complied, but wept when he left her chambers immediately after consummating the marriage. The next morning, though, her absent husband sent gifts of food, clothing, and servants, and Waira began to believe that she could win him over if only she was patient and understanding. She slowly adjusted to life at the palace, caring for young Ralindi as if he were her own (this earned her the eternal wrath of Aleah--although she wanted nothing to do with her son, neither did she want Jherek's "sniveling brat" wife to have him). Waira gave birth to her own son, Rejladan, in AC 993, nearly two years to the day after her disappointing wedding night. Surprisingly, Jherek immediately warmed to her after the birth, lavishing attention upon her and the new baby. Waira fell in love with her husband then; but time passed, and Jherek's attention turned once again to his favourite, first wife Lan-Syn. So Waira went on with her life, raising the boys with competence and confidence. When Ralindi was eight and Rejladan six, Jherek hired a private tutor to educate them, and Waira suddenly had a lot of time on her hands. Then one day, she was watching the boys practice with their physical trainer, and had an idea; with Jherek's permission, she hired a female fighter from Klantyre to train her in the use of the sword, just to keep herself busy and in shape. Jherek didn't quite understand her new passion for fighting, and grew suspicious of the trainer for a while, but thought it amusing. Waira found new self-confidence and stamina, and climbed rapidly through the levels to the eighth level, surpassing even her teacher. Then, in AC 1008, Waira--three months pregnant--took a bad fall in practice and miscarried. Jherek was sick with grief, and furious. He melted down Waira's weapons and armor, and forbade her to pick up a weapon ever again. After that, Jherek all but ignored her completely. But tragedy soon struck: Rejladan disappeared, and Waira broke down completely. Jherek, half-insane with rage and fear as well as guilt, came to Waira. They comforted each other, and Waira finally grew close to her husband of seventeen years. Jherek and Ralindi found and rescued Rejladan in AC 1011, from a strange pocket dimension in which Lady Sinaria Verlien had trapped him. Re-united with her precious son, Waira was happy. Today, she still misses the swordplay of years gone by, but Waira is content just living her life. PERSONALITY. Waira is the least dynamic of Jherek's three wives; she has none of Lan-Syn's grace or Aleah's fire. Instead, Waira is a dull little mouse. In fact, she is intimidated into silence by Lan-Syn, and terrified of Aleah. Although she has resigned herself to the fact that it will never happen, Waira still carries deep within the ember of a hope that someday her husband will love her. Unfortunately for her, the marriage was simply one of convenience. Since she was banned from fighting, Waira has taken to doing pretty much nothing but whiling the days away in the gardens, or by a window; the other wives call her lazy, and Aleah will occasionally even arouse Jherek's ire against her. APPEARANCE. Jherek supplies all his wives with potions of longevity; therefore, Waira appears to be about thirty years of age. She is plainly pretty, with long wavy medium brown hair framing her heart-shaped face. Her hazel eyes highlight the coppery-gold tones in her skin. At 5'6", Waira is petite, but she hides her figure under loose dels in the plain style of western Ethengar. Her smile is quick when she is complimented (a rare occasion), but her blush is quicker in times of embarrassment (a not-so-rare occasion). If she is actually engaged in conversation, Waira opens up, making expansive gestures with her hands and widening her eyes. WHAT SHE SAYS. Mind your teachers, and write me only when you have a break from studying and after you've written your father. (To Rejladan, upon his leaving for the Great School of Magic; palace staff say that Waira shut herself in her room for a week after the carriage pulled away) WHAT OTHERS SAY. Isn't it funny--people call me a cat and her a mouse. Ah, to be allowed to live up to my end of the bargain and be rid of her once and for all! (Lady Aleah)   WAIRA VIRAYANA [8th-level Fighter (retired)]: AC 3 (Ring of protection, Dexterity bonus); Thac0 13; Saves ppd 10 / rsw 12 / pp 11 / bw 12 / sp 13; hp 55; Damage -none- (banned from using weapons); STR 14 / DEX 16 / CON 16 / INT 12 / WIS 10 / CHR 10; AL N; ML 12. Languages: Ethengarian, Thyatian Proficiencies: Read/Write, Blind-Fighting, Endurance, Riding (Land), Etiquette Known Magical Items: Ring of Protection ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:01:14 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Traladaran Culture (long) This is an overview of Traladaran culture that I compiled for my campaign. Note: If you want to copy this or link to it, please note that I have omitted the "Language" section from this post, for brevity and clarity. If you want to use this article, you might want to get the complete version from my site first. Jenn http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ TRALADARAN CULTURE: A BRIEF OVERVIEW HISTORY Traladara has been a land torn by constant invasion, occupation, and war for over 2,000 years. Traladara was once the land of the Traldar, tribal peoples who also settled in the lands that would become known as Darokin. Traldar culture flourished around BC 1200. Traldar culture and society at its peak was most comparable to that of the modern-day people of Minaea, or of the collapsed Milenian civilization of the southern continent. But the invasion around BC 1000 of the beast-men (probably gnolls) brought an end to the golden age of the Traldar. King Halav, leader of the settlement at Lavv (modern-day Kelvin), led the Traldar to victory over the invaders, though he perished in the battle. Very few of the Traldar survived; those who did reverted back to a simple agrarian lifestyle in order to survive. Communication between communities became infrequent, although the epic of King Halav continued to give the people a sense of unity. Meanwhile, limited contact with newly-arrived Callarii and Vyalia elves lead to the establishment of trade with a very few villages. The Traldar (now called Traladarans) began a slow climb back to civilization, although efforts were hampered by constant humanoid invasions and plagues of vampirism and lycanthropy. Marilenev (now Mirros), the major city of Traladara, was a thriving trade village of 5000. But then Thyatian forces entered Traladara in AC 900 and quickly conquered the undefended territory. Since then, Traladara (called Karameikos since AC 970) has suffered at the hands of a small Thyatian minority, which dominates politics, trade, and the upper echelons of the military. RELIGION The Traladaran people, for the most part, follow the teachings of the Church of Traladara, which exhorts followers to live a good life and to do no harm to others. Clerics provide advice based on the examples provided in "The Song of King Halav." The Church of Traladara honours the Immortal Halav, as well as his companions Petra and Zirchev. Traladaran clerics also perform marriages and officiate at other ceremonies, preach the church philosophies, and promote good will. They may also fight in order to save lives or to defeat evil. Roughly 70 percent of the population of Traladara belong to the Church; most are of the common people, although members of the important Traladaran families in Mirros follow the Church philosophies as a matter of protest against Thyatian rule. The current Patriarch of the Church of Traladara is Aleksyev Nikelnevich (also known as "Father Niki"). Many Traladarans (5 to 10 percent of the total population) belong to the Thyatian-dominated Church of Karameikos, while small minorities follow the Eternal Truth of Al-Kalim, the teachings of the elven Immortals, other faiths, or none at all. The Traladaran people are very open-minded and tolerant, and will permit people of nearly any religious creed (excepting evil faiths) to live among them. But Traladarans are also highly-resistant to conversion of any kind, and resent people who question their personal beliefs. CULTURE AND ATTITUDES Traladara is noted for its rich folk and liturgical music, stone carving, and architecture. Traladaran architecture displays a remarkable originality in design, seen especially in Traladaran churches and shrines. These churches are often small and simple, with external sculptures and reliefs. Traladarans are a warm and generous people known for their hospitality; a guest of a Traladaran host, rich or poor, will never leave hungry! (Traditional foods are detailed below). Besides eating, Traladarans enjoy a number of cultural pastimes, such as the greased pole contest, where contestants try to climb a twenty-foot tall smooth wooden pole soaked in fish oil and slathered with lard (the first to make it to the red flag at the top wins a prize, usually a cake). Another pastime is the pancake race, where up to eight contestants try to cross a distance to the finish line while flipping a pancake on a large wooden "spatula." Pummeling and wrestling remain popular sports as well. One of the more interesting things about Traladarans is their attitude toward romance. Romance is deeply entrenched in the Traladaran culture, and plays a very important role. Traladaran romance is an old-fashioned concept (many of these concepts went out of fashion in other parts of the world a century ago), essentially preserving the concept of courtly love, wherein the woman is elevated as an object of adoration, and in which the man serves her virtue without expecting favours in return. Lukacs Renyo, a popular writer born in Mirros, wrote of this concept. Renyo writes that the ideal of Traladaran romance is about the male proffering love, not receiving it. Traladaran men kiss the hands of their ladies; they enter a tavern or restaurant before the lady so that she should not be exposed to any unseemly behaviour which might be taking place within; they walk on the outside of the street (on the lady's left) so as to be able to draw their swords in defense of her honour. Consequently, Traladara can be a very romantic place for a lady to be! But there is also an unfortunate side to this romantic attitude. While Traladara has a wonderful reputation for romance, it also has a reputation as being the "gloomiest" nation in the Known World (aside from Boldavia in Glantri, which is populated by Traladaran emigrants). Indeed, Traladara sadly has one of the highest suicide rates in the Known World. Many experts believe that this has something to do with the Thyatian occupation. Sage Bela Kopul, an expert in such matters of the mind and the heart, says that many Traladarans see suicide as a brave attempt to restore their dignity which has been stolen in some personal way by the conquest (even a century later). Kopul has written that in the years immediately following the invasion of AC 900, there were as many as 4500 reported suicides in Traladara. Indeed, this attitude of hopelessness and desperation manifests itself in many aspects of Traladaran culture, especially in song. One popular song shows both the romantic spirit and the despair of the Traladaran people: "Little white flowers won't wait for you, Not where the black coach of sorrow has taken you; Immortals have no thought of returning you-- Would they be angry if I thought of joining you?" CUSTOMS AND SAYINGS Traladarans have many important customs. Perhaps most important among them is the Shearing. The Shearing is the time in which a Traladaran youth, approaching adulthood, leaves home and sets out on his or her own (for many young Traladaran women also take part in this custom). At a dinner celebration attended by all the family and friends, the parents dress their child in traveling gear; the bottom of the cloak is sheared and left ragged, symbolizing that he or she is an impoverished traveler. >From that time, the sheared youth is considered a friend of the family, but not part of it. He (for example) must go out into the world and survive until he has proved himself worthy to be asked back into the family, at which time he is considered a full adult. The Shearing takes place, of course, only once in any Traladaran's lifetime; however, many Traladaran customs are an everyday tradition. Manners and etiquette are an example. Traladaran manners are similar in some ways to typical manners anywhere else. But there are still many differences, particularly in the host-guest relationship: in Traladaran homes, the host defers to the guest (rather than the other way around). This results in some interesting situations, among them a host offering a guest his bed in which to sleep if there is none other available. Traladarans not only have interesting customs, but also interesting sayings. A few common examples follow: "Better poor and honest than rich and corrupt." (Also heard as ". . .than Thyatian.") "If a man returns evil for good, then from his house evil shall not depart." "Better a dish of herbs where love is than a fatted cow and hatred with it." "A simpleton believes everything, but the shrewd man measures his steps." FOOD AND DRINK Traladaran hospitality extends to the table where one should be prepared for a feast that lasts several hours (if the host has the means). The typical Traladaran commoner's diet is heavy on vegetables and dark breads, with some meats (mostly birds and pork) and (near the coast) fish. In the countryside, grain-based dishes, such as porridge and oatmeal or potato cakes, are common. Among the meza (appetizers) are items such as spicy dried meats called basturma, stuffed vegetables and fruits called dolma, tasty meatballs, and home-cured olives (especially near the coast). Other popular dishes are plaki, a vegetable or fish stew containing tomatoes, onions, and olive oil; fluffy pastries, bourek, filled with meat and cheese or spinach; kasha, a saute of onions, mushrooms, and simmered wheat kernels; paprikas burgoyna (potatoes paprika); cabbage stew; and spicy sausages called sudjuk. Traladarans often sip raki, an anise-flavoured drink. Beer, cider, and wine are, of course, always popular. FOLK TRADITIONS Although most Traladarans belong to a formal religious organization (mostly the Church of Traladara), some older customs have persisted. For example, in ancient times, Traladarans considered trees to be sacred plants with the power to grant special favours and requests. By tying strips of cloth to a tree, one could ask for help or heal sick relatives and friends. Some Traladarans continue this practice today. To the never-ending chagrin of many, the Traladaran people have retained many other old superstitions. These range from belief in lucky numbers and tea leaf readings to always approaching a shop from the front (to bring the owner prosperity). Of course, like everyone else, Traladarans rely heavily on magical healing. When a healer cannot be had, however, home remedies prevail. Medical beliefs among Traladarans fall into two general categories: religious and folk medicine. Religious Traladarans often believe that illness is caused by the Immortals, and so rely mainly on incantations and prayers for relief. Others rely on folk healing. For example, for the healing of wounds, the victim is instructed to clean the wound with wine or another strong spirit, then hold the wound closed with both hands and chant three times, "In the name of Halav Red-Hair. The wound is red, the cut deep, the flesh be sore, but there will be no more blood or pain." Then the wound is bound in a poultice and a clean cloth. SUBCULTURES Although the Traladaran people are all one people, there are many subcultures among them. The most populous Traladaran subculture are the mixed-blood Traladarans--those of both Traladaran and Thyatian parentage. Other subcultures are not as highly visible, but are nonetheless there. Many other Traladarans of mixed blood exist, including those of Ylari, Hin, Elven, and Darokinian descent. The Darine are full-blooded Traladarans, although they live by an ancient code of living that most Traladarans have left behind in these late days. The Darine are a traveling people, and a visit from one of their vardo (wagon) caravans means certain entertainment, with dancing, magic tricks, and fortune-telling. The Darine have bad reputations among the Thyatians of the cities as thieves and tricksters, but the Traladarans of the countryside know them to be an honest, albeit mysterious, people. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #8 ****************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, January 15 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 009 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - War Priest Kit [MYSTARA] - Famous Folks of Mystara (long) [MYSTARA] - Darokin NPCs (long) [MYSTARA] - Elven Clans [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Rulers ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:01:55 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: [MYSTARA] - War Priest Kit In our campaign, many characters and NPCs are War Priests of a local Immortal. When we started out, we didn't have much material to draw on (just the core rules, the Complete Priest's Handbook, and the setting), so we developed a sort of kit for these priests. Well, as we added to our collection, we found that what we had developed almost identically matched the kit included in the Complete Book of Humanoids. I won't bore you with more details, but I've included a generalized version of that kit (with our adaptations) here for those who are interested. PLEASE NOTE that although we created this kit with AD&D core rules in mind, I am posting it here because I think that the kit goes well in OD&D Mystara campaigns too, with a couple of adaptations. Feel free to alter it to fit your needs. Jenn   THE WAR PRIEST War priests are clerics of battle (the exact Immortal is the DM's choice, but I recommend one not already in the Canon). They preach a doctrine of might makes right, ministering to the body as much as the soul. Not only do they bring the faith to the warrior classes, but they also fight beside them when they march to war. War priests are clerics with better-than-average combat skills. They burn with the indignation of their violent Immortal, wielding weapon and holy symbol in harmony for their faith. War priests are chaotic, but not necessarily evil, although they usually walk a fine line between their love of war and the actual advocacy of the destruction it brings. War priest sects cooperate with other sects of war Immortals, but may find themselves on opposite sides of a battlefield quite often. This is not seen as a conflict of interest, as it is the act of war itself which is holy, not the choice of battle or of sides. War priests will do nearly anything to thwart plans of Peace priests, whom they consider their ultimate enemy. War priests, in addition to the abilities below, may choose to specialize in a certain aspect of war, such as cavalry, tactics, battlefield healing, and so on. REQUIREMENTS. This kit is open to all races (including humanoids) and both sexes, though male war priests are more common. They can be of any chaotic alignment. The minimum Strength score required for members of this kit is 13. The minimum Wisdom score is 9. ROLE. War priests lead the faithful to battle, bringing clerical spells to the battlefield along with their weapon of choice or (optional) a weapon holy to their sect. They are respected among the peoples who engage in war as a way of life, and feared among those that prefer more peaceful solutions. War priests usually attend to the spiritual needs of warriors, considering others as less worthy of their attention. They foretell when the Immortals want their followers to go to war. They prepare the troops with inspirational sermons and clerical blessings. They fight alongside their followers, bringing the wrath of their Immortal down upon their enemies. Some war priests become adventurers at the bequest of their Immortal, going on long quests as part of their normal duties. WEAPON PROFICIENCIES. War priests typically wield a weapon of their choice (including edged or missile weapons). Optionally, they may be required to wield the holy weapon of their order (for example, a morningstar) either exclusively or in tandem with a weapon of choice. War priests with the ambidexterity skill may learn to wield two weapons in combat, as a fighter (DM's option). NONWEAPON PROFICIENCIES. Required: Religion, Blind-fighting Bonus: Knowledge of Battle Tactics Recommended, General: Endurance, Intimidation, Riding (land-based) Recommended, Warrior: Armorer, Blacksmithing, Close-Quarter Fighting, Weaponsmithing Recommended, Priest: Healing, Spellcraft Forbidden: None EQUIPMENT. War priests may purchase any equipment they choose, including any armor. They can use any magical items normally available to priests. SPECIAL BENEFITS. War priests can acquire warrior proficiencies without spending an extra slot. War priests receive Constitution hit point bonuses as warriors. War priests may use the optional weapon mastery rules from Combat and Tactics as if they were warriors. At third level, they acquire the special ability Incite Berserker Rage, ten rounds per day (for +2 to attack and damage). This ability can be used not only on the fighters under the war priest, but on the priest himself. At fifth level, war priests can Inspire Fear twice a day (as the fourth level Fear spell). MAGICAL ABILITIES. War priests are allowed access to the following spells. Major Access: Chaos, Combat, Healing, Protection, War. Minor Access: All, Guardian, Necromantic, Sun Forbidden Spheres: All others. FOLLOWERS AND STRONGHOLDS. Followers are received at eighth level and consist of one fifth-level priest, three third-level priests, and six first-level priests of the same order, plus two fifth-level fighters. The priest may take any or all on adventures or to battle (in addition to any army he may lead). The priesthood (if it is organized) will pay for half the cost of stronghold construction at eighth level. The stronghold must include a large armory. SPECIAL HINDRANCES. None. WEALTH OPTIONS. War priests start play with 3d6x5 gp. POSSIBLE SYMBOLS. Sword Across Banner; Polearms in Formation; Morningstar in a Mailed Fist (or other holy weapon). ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:02:51 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Famous Folks of Mystara (long) Hi again! This is my "Who's Who" for Mystara. Please note that this list was developed for my campaign, and so is dated accordingly. Feel free to move things around to make them compatible with your own campaign. I'm also always looking for contributions for the Famous Folks page, so if you have any, please mail them to me *privately*--terms of posting appear on my page, at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/npcentry.html Jenn FAMOUS FOLKS OF MYSTARA Explorers and Adventurers Edvard Kjellson, 33, Soderfjordan explorer. Recently completed a ten-year survey of the geography, flora, and fauna of extreme NW Norwold. Hyron Silverwind, 156, Minrothaddan explorer/adventurer. Awed the world last year with the discovery of a 210-carat blue diamond; he won't tell where the mine is, but hints of a legendary find. Nazario Galdarres, 112, Belcadiz adventurer. Won top prize at Glantri's Monster Fair for a record-breaking, 40' diameter, live black pudding. Traders and Financiers Jean-Jacques Chretien, 45, Averoignian economist and financial advisor. This premiere authority on mercantile theory was recantly retained by the Minrothaddan government for an undisclosed (but rumoured enormous) sum; he is best known for his idea that one nation can prosper only at the expense of another. Corun Alson, 36, Darokinian merchant. Enormously successful importer-exporter; not allied with any merchant house. Agitating for an overhaul of the Darokinian system, emphasizing private enterprise over house loyalty. Philosophers and Spiritual Leaders William Baldwin, 63, Darokinian philosopher. Published "A Treatise on Moral Philosophy," questioning the elite class's objections to charitable causes and its classist attitudes. Balaputra, age unknown, Sindhi spiritualist. Becoming rapidly popular for his sermons on passive resistance as spiritual warfare and enlightenment through knowledge. Dexius Sextillius, 40, Thyatian thinker. Radical leader of the new "Thanatian" religious order; teaches that Entropy is the center of all creation, and hence, the natural order. Scientists and Mages Leonidas Domidias, 51, Thyatian anatomist. Has recently gone on the lecture circuit, addressing the topic of medical researchand non-magical healing. He is perhaps best known for his treatise on human, demi-human and humanoid anatomies (1013). Winther Hagen, age unknown, Aalbanese alchemist. Discovered a new, non-magical anesthetic, called "etheric," made of alcohol and sulfuric acid. Tattenai, age unknown, Alphatian air mage. Researching the re-design of magical skyships, to incorporate atmospheric-altering spells. Sages and Scholars Sarumyn Etheredyl, 735, Vyalian historian. Recently completed the controversial "A History of Languages and Dialects," which proposes that Thyatian is a linguistic descendant of Traldar, via Milenian. Coenraad Dekevver, 70, Flaemish scholar. Proposed "An Analytical Theory of World-Shield Heat, with Respect to Polar Openings," exploring outer- and inner-world volcanic activity. Yisun Tumen Dologhan, 86, Lhamsan monk and astrologer. Has assigned different elemental properties and powers to quadrants of the sky; proposes that there is, at any moment, a pure balance of sould divided between the star-signs, to maintain a balance of the elements. Any disruption of the world's ecology (i.e., elements) will destroy its attached souls, and hence, life on Mystara. This theory is quite controversial. Inventors Bartholomew Leudold, 100, gnomish inventor. Has constructed a travelling clock, only 12"x12"x6" and with a small chime which will strike at a selected hour. Ulanu Poto, 23, Makai roofer. Has developed a metal rod for the conduction of lightning on buildings during storms. Arsemenes, 31, Minean inventor and mage. Has constructed a diving bell, for use in underwater exploration. Gamoc Stragglebeard, 179, Rockhome smith. Has invented a machine for stamping out nails from a single cast. Imma Finebraid, 102, gnomish mage and tinkerer. Has developed a miner's helmet with a permanent light. Konrad Lazu, 29, Traladaran engineer. Has invented a sand filter of Mirros's new water supply. Pearce Elsan, 205, Minrothaddan sea captain. has developed a flag-based system of cade, called "semaphore," for use of long-distance communication between ships at sea. Aamir-Abdul Jafir ibn-Mohsin, 37, Ylari physick. Has invented a bandage made with plaster for the bracing for broken bones. Joseph Urrey, 46, Darokinian carter. Has perfected a slate brake for wagons. Designers and Craftsmen Jaralan Felistyr, 360, Aengmor elf engineer. Demonstrated (on a scale model) the principles of a suspension bridge. Altadonna Cellini, 33, Caurenzian fashion designer. Up-and-coming designer who shocked the haute-couture world with her straight gowns and bare-headed models. Nils Torwaldsson, 40, Ostlandi smith. Experimenting with iron-plated ships. Xiang Li-Li, 19, Ochalean shopkeeper and seamstress. Has designed clothing dyed through a screen of silk fibers. Writers David Halstead, 47, Darokin. "The Influence of a Low Price of Corn on the Profits of Stock." Maddalena Fantini, 30, Darokin. "The Courtier." Hartmann Matfried, 54, Hattias. "The Exclued: Hattians and Imperial Law." Domingo Omero Barrera, 415, Belcadiz. "La Historia Esplenderosa." Leigh Stannard, 63, Fenswick. "The Book of the Duchesse: A Ladie's Guide to Proper Comport." Miguel de Saavedra, 130, Belcadiz. "Don Quintera." Hugo Nupipe, 55, Heartshire. "On a Standard Grammar." Oliver Linton, 58, Darokin. "The Causes of Wealth." Zindelo Verlyn, 34, Traladara. "Melancholia." Prominent Artists Pyotr Reni, 42, Berghdoven. "The D'Este Cycle," 24 paintings on the life of patroness Giovanna D'Este. oil on canvas. Hermogenes Ducas, 23, Kerendas. "Scenes From the Life of Empress Lucianna." Frescoes. Titian Blueleaf, 559, Vyalia. "Warrior on Horseback." Sculpture in jet. Dylen Rainmaker, 24, residence unknown. "Aurora," portrait of Lady Milanda Shiye. Oil on wood. Tavo Osmossen, 39, Soderfjord. "Odin." Sculpture in wood. Gian-Carlo Oristano, 25, Darokin. "The Baker's Daughter." Pen and ink. Lorenzo Alighieri, 18, Darokin. "Duchesa," portrait of Duchess Triona Martino. Oil on canvas. Musicians Albert Heyden, 60, Aalban. Known for dark and ponderous organ pieces; favourite of Prince Jaggar. Salvian Simocatta, 40, Kerendas. Boisterous and risque operas; patronized by Caurenzian families of northern Darokin. Luigi Boccherini, 32, Caurenze. Court composer of Count Anaxibius Torion of Redstone. Kizzy Jehann, 15, Traladara. Darine master violinist. Augustin Murillo de Vargas, 356, Belcadiz. Premiere authority on the "guitarra"; pioneering a new style of flamenco. Msiba Negassi Yavswano, 22, Yavdlom. Wildly popular leader of "Ngisu," a band playing in Mositius and Ierendi City dance clubs; loud, throbbing beat and chanted lyrics. Performers Naimo Mabarek, 35, Ylari storyteller. Odriana Wochmann, 41, Aalbanese opera diva. Ciryon Hierydyl, 182, Vyalian bard and mage. Zanasanna, age unknown, Alphatian master actress. Serinde Chossum, 219, Alfheim ballet dancer Sherion, age unknown, Alphatian court singer. Alissende Vouchelier-Missons, 20, Averoignian interpretive dancer. Abana-ta-sherit, 17, Thothian exotic dancer. Dubraic Stafford, 30, Darokinian stage actor. Athletes Aerandir Brego, age unknown, Emerondian runner. Fastest 100-meter sprint, World Games, 1024. Borchu of Tajit, 25, Ethengarian horseman. Ran horse "Qulan" to a record win in last year's Kerendan Derby. Cacius Solonius, 30, Thyatian gladiator. Undefeated in 73 matches. Seved Jordsson, 43, Vestlandi smith. Weight-lifting champion (535 lbs.), 1024 World Games. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:04:04 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Darokin NPCs (long) DAROKIN NPCs Darokin, land of merchants, is home to a number of power-brokers and up-and-comers...But not everyone in this magnificent center of mercantilism is a fast-talking, wheeling-and-dealing merchant; below are a few examples of other people to meet in Darokin. GIOVANNA D'ESTE Giovanna is the eldest daughter of--and sole heir to--shipping magnate Octavio d'Este of Este, east of Corunglain. But Giovanna is more than a simple heiress. She is a remarkable young lady who has, through her passion and determination, become the foremost patron of the arts in all of Darokin. When she was but five years old, her father hired the best tutors available in such diverse subjects as music, languages, and the natural studies. Giovanna became one of the most well-educated young ladies in all of Darokin; but what truly attracted her, "sometimes to distraction," as her father would say, was fine arts and literature. Giovanna discovered that the newer painters and sculptors of northern Darokin (persons of Caurenzian descent, like herself) were being neglected in the cities for pieces in the older, Traladaran-influenced style. Artists in the northern towns and cities of Este, Akorros, and Corunglain were languishing in obscurity while their revolutionary style, which enhances Thyatian realism with an air of stylized perfection and an attention to light and shadow on the human form, was threatened with extinction. Giovanna, then only sixteen, appealed to her father to grant her an allowance to be spent not on frivolities, but on the patronage of three of these artists, who are now (two years later) becoming recognizable names in Darokinian art, thanks to this remarkable young lady's support: Angelo Buonotti, Leonardo da Verona, and Artemmisia Orazio. Giovanna is also known to support literature, and has recently paid to publish the controversial work of Niccolo Machionella, whose support of a strong, central monarchy at the expense of mercantilism and republicanism have earned him the wrath of the Old Guard. (Giovanna's support of this writer has earned her and her father the repudiation of some of their former merchant friends.) Appearance. Giovanna is a lovely young lady of dark Caurenzian hair and eyes. She tends to dress in the dark velvets and brocades common to northern ladies. She carries herself with an air of authority and even superiority, but persons approaching her will find her friendly and open, with a quick smile. Personality. Giovanna tends to be cooly professional in business dealings, but persons who earn her patronage are quickly considered friends. She is warm and engaging in conversation, and rapidly becomes the center of male attention at any social function. What She Says. "Castiglioni writes that a true daughter of the aristocracy should be educated in the finer arts as well as the domestic arts, for she shall be required in her adulthood to entertain and converse with men of distinction. Surely you wouldn't want your wife to be thoroughly boring, Callan?" (to Chancellor Mauntea's eldest son Callan, in response to his disdainful remark concerning women's education) What Others Say. If only she would approach the business with such dedication... (Octavio d'Este, Giovanna's father, with a smile) CASSANDRA VARSHO Once, Cassandra was young wife with a successful merchant husband and two small children. She was bright and cheerful, and enjoyed planting flowers and making up games for her little boys. Then, one day, her husband came home from a week-long business trip, packed his bags, and left. And he took the children with him. Cassandra pleaded with him to know what she had done, but he would not say a word, only ushered the boys into the carriage and drove away. Cassandra was shattered; she took to sleeping on the front steps of her house, lest her husband drive the children by and she not see them. The neighbors feared that she was going mad. Finally, an anonymous message arrived; it informed Cassandra that her husband had left because a local woman--a personal enemy--had convinced her husband that she had been unfaithful to him. Knowing that she had been wronged, but having no way of finding her husband and children to tell them so, Cassandra broke down. She sat in the house, in the dark, for months. At last, her fevered mind offered up an idea; Cassandra sold all her belongings, her house, and property. She bought a small building in the capital and hired a retinue of puppetteers. From that day on, the Darokin City Children's Puppet Theatre has ofered low cost entertainment for children of all ages. Cassandra watches every crowd, hoping to see a glimpse of her boys, for they loved puppets and puppet shows above all else, and their father would deny them nothing. Surely they will come today... Appearance. Cassandra is a beautiful, graceful woman whose figure resembles that of a dancer. But closer inspection reveals that her clothing is shabby, her face is pale, her long black hair is dishevelled, and her eyes are ringed with dark circles. Personality. Cassandra is a tragic figure who lives above her theatre, and never appears openly in public. Therefore, visitors to the theatre might see her only when she pulls the curtain aside before every act, searching the faces of the children in the crowd. What She Says. No direct quotes are attributed to Cassandra, who seldom speaks even to her employees. What Others Say. "Poor dear. She has suffered so much." (Holy woman Mother Sabine-Rosaire, who has prayed with Cassandra for her family's return) CAPTAIN TYR Captain Tyr is a crusty old sea captain who runs a carriage and buggy service in Athenos. Upon his retirement from the navy in 1007, Tyr found that his military pension was not exactly what he had expected it would be. He tried to find work as a merchant marine, but his captain friends had no positions to offer. He took odd jobs here and there, but found them for the most part tiring and humiliating. Then he hit upon the idea of giving carriage and buggy tours of the city for a small fee. The tourists loved his dry wit and inside-out knowledge of the sea port area, and Tyr was an instant success. Today, Tyr sometimes even professes to enjoy his second career better than his first (just not around his buddies). Appearance. Tyr is the stereotypical old sea captain: weathered face, wild white hair, and eyes with a permanent squint. He dresses in old naval uniforms for effect, and usually has a corncob pipe jammed into one corner of his mouth. Personality. Tyr is a gruff-sounding but cheerful soul who always makes his customers laugh. He delights in seeing children's faces light up when he tells tales of hurricanes and pirate raids, and often gives young honeymooners rides for half-price. What He Says. "Step lively there, young sir; ye never know when the sea serpents 'ave crawled up under yon buggy step!" (common saying to children as they board) What Others Say. "Tyr is a grand Athenosian institution." (Avral Linton, Townmaster of Athenos) SHALLATARIEL Shallatariel is the Ambassador to Darokin from the Kingdom of the City of Stars. He is a young elf, and the proud first ambassadorial representative from his kingdom to Darokin. His job is mainly to provide Darokinians--and othe foreign ambassadors--with a positive view of Aengmor (Shadow) elves (contrary to what they might have been told by Alfheim refugees); the Darokinian government still tends to deal directly with King Telemon in matters of actual importance. Appearance. Shallatariel is a young (130), vibrant elf with the extremely pale skin and white hair common to his people. He has pale blue eyes and a ready smile. He prefers to dress in flowing silk tunics in deep, rich colours. Personality. People are often surprised by Shallatariel, because he is everything they expect an Aengmor elf not to be: friendly, happy, and...well, elven. He is perfectly comfortable in just about any social setting (except one involving a great deal of sunshine), and loves to meet people from exotic places. What He Says. "Really? Tell me all about it, every detail." (common saying upon meeting someone from a land to which he's not been; to date, Shallatariel has been to central and southern Darokin) What Others Say. How clever of the Shadow elf government to think that this charming little boy could make the entire world forget their crimes." (Stellara Ariesseu of Clan Mealidil, head of the Alfheim refugees in Darokin) ZAHALANI HAWKRUNNER Zahalani, the granddaughter of Bear Clan chieftain Powukuan Sleeps-With-Open-Eyes, voluntered herself for the position of Ambassador to Darokin upon the reopening of full-scale foreign relations with the Republic in 1016. Zahalani convinced the chieftain and the clan elders that their people--in order to avoid exploitation by foreign merchants--needed a formal diplomatic relationship with Darokin, rather than the former, informal method of dealing with Toney House. She has, during her tenure, managed to calm her old grandfather's suspicion of foreigners, and has also become a spokesperson for the well-being of the Children of Atruaghin living within Darokin. Appearance. Zahalani is now a striking woman in her late 20s, with the black hair, grey eyes, and bronze skin of her clan. She is of average height and voluptuous, and stands with a proud carriage. She dresses in dyed wool tunics or dresses, and on formal occasions wears her hair in two round buns above her ears. Personality. Zahalani is confidence personified. Many a diplomat or merchant has had his resolve tremble and crack under the strain of Zahalani's calm gaze, dusky voice, and slow smile. She is far from a cold fish, though; she loves the Darokin City night life, and is fast becoming the toast of the town. What She Says. "What an excellent product, sir; I'm certain that my people would be delighted to purchase it in great abundance. Now, about the cost..." (overheard during a meeting with a member of Toney House) What Others Say. "One more minute of that voice and those eyes and I would have forgotten to be a gentleman...How much did I lose this time?" (Morgan Toney, exiting said meeting an hour later) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:04:55 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Elven Clans These are the clan names from Evergrun to the present, *as used in my campaign*, just for anyone who's interested. I have tried to fill in the history of the elves by "piecing together" bits of information here and there in the literature; please recall that only some of this is "Canon" Mystara. If you want to use this on your page, go ahead, but PLEASE don't copy this version!--the html version is laid out much easier on the eye! http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/elfclans.html   I ELILMATHIA ("THE CHILDREN") Alfevien (Lost in Rain of Fire--poleshift) Galerion (Lost in Rain of Fire--poleshift) Nadriendel (Lost in Rain of Fire--poleshift) Anuliinde (Lost in Rain of Fire--Blackmoor colony) Calol (Lost in Rain of Fire--Blackmoor colony) Amyl (Lost in Rain of Fire--migration to Grunland) Endamaar (Lost in Rain of Fire--migration to Grunland) Vilmadien (Lost in Rain of Fire--failure of Grunland) Gorfiviel (Lost in Rain of Fire--failure of Grunland) Nethiar (Lost in Rain of Fire--failure of Grunland) Celebryl (Large Colony--became Shadowelves, Schattenalfen, Icevale) Felistyr (Large Colony--became Shadowelves, Schattenalfen, Icevale) Gelbalf (Large Colony--became Shadowelves, Schattenalfen, Icevale) Parador (Large Colony--became Shadowelves, Schattenalfen, Icevale) Geffroen (Small Colony--became the Geffronell of Denagoth and Wendar) Rendiye (Small Colony--entered sea and became the Aquarendi) Deliryl (Remained in Grunland--became the Blacklore of HW) Meril (Remained in Grunland--became the Blacklore of HW) Hil-Gamir (Remained in Grunland--became the Blacklore of HW) Isionia (Migrated east of Grunland to Everfeed) Hawynn ("Hatwa") (Migrated east of Grunland to Everfeed) Truedyl ("Gentle Folk") (Ilsundal's migration--settled in modern Glantri--survive in HW) Sheyallia (Ilsundal's migration--settled in Serpent Peninsula--survive in Grakhaalia) Subclan: Taureshey (Settled in the Dark Wood--some migrated to Canolbarth) Veirdyr ("Verdier"/"Alfund") (Ilsundal's migration--settled on Dread Coast) Melydor ("Meditor"/"Alfasser") (Ilsundal's migration--settled on Dread Coast) Bryhydd (Ilsundal's migration--left Sylvan Realm--settled in modern Robrenn) Feasiann ("Frisonnia") (Ilsundal's migration--left Sylvan Realm--settled in modern Eusdria) Sylvaria ("Savaria") (Ilsundal's migration--left Sylvan Realm--settled in modern Eusdria) Ganduil (Genalleth's migration--settled in modern Wendar) Anirion (Genalleth's migration--settled in modern Wendar) Lothenar (Genalleth's migration--settled in modern Denagoth--Lost in human raids) Chossum (Mealiden's Sylvan migration--settled in Alfheim) Erendyl (Mealiden's Sylvan migration--settled in Alfheim) Subclan: Erewan (Small Erendyl colony--settled in Glantri with Clan Alhambra) Grunalf (Mealiden's Sylvan migration--settled in Alfheim) Nornanda ("Long Runner") (Mealiden's Sylvan migration--settled in Alfheim) Mealidil (Mealiden's Sylvan migration--settled in Alfheim) Pilinkaarne ("Red Arrow") (Mealiden's Sylvan migration--settled in Alfheim) Aldtyrme ("Treeshield") (Mealiden's Sylvan migration--settled in Vyalia) Diamarak (Mealiden's Sylvan migration--settled in Vyalia) Etheredyl (Mealiden's Sylvan migration--settled in Vyalia) Hierydyl (Mealiden's Sylvan migration--settled in Vyalia) Laaseluune ("Blueleaf") (Mealiden's Sylvan migration--settled in Vyalia) Wyntaarie ("Greenheight") (Mealiden's Sylvan migration--settled in Vyalia) Anuwiel (Mealiden's Sylvan migration--became the Callarii) Callathien (Mealiden's Sylvan migration--became the Callarii) Delaldor (Mealiden's Sylvan migration--became the Callarii) Lymandyr (Mealiden's Sylvan migration--became the Callarii) Tanduil (Mealiden's Sylvan migration--became the Callarii) Shiye (Mealiden's Sylvan migration--settled in Alphatia) Subclan: Shiye-Niur Subclan: Shiye-Lyeere Subclan: Shiye-Taarii Feadiel (Followed Mealiden's clans to Alfheim) Alien Elves (*IMC, anyway*) "Los Viajeros" (Travelers of an unknown origin) Destreza (Settled in modern Torreon) Subclan: Alhambra ("Belcadiz") (Left Torreon--settled in modern Glantri) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:05:42 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Rulers These are the rulers of Alphatia since Landfall, *as used in my campaign*. I have tried where possible (I do not have all the literature) to include highlights of the Emperors'/Empresses' rule, mostly from the timeline in DotE. Jenn ALPHATIAN RULERS (From Landfall)   FIRST DYNASTY AY 0 (Landfall) Kerothar I. Kerothar was the leader of the Followers of Air on the old Alphatian homeworld. His peers asked him to rule their new home, but checked his power with the creation of the Grand Council. 65 Kerothar II. Son of Kerothar I. Birth name Ecbashur. Bellissaria settled. 199 Alphas I. Nephew of the childless Kerothar II. 271 Alphas II. Son of Alphas I. Birth name Zinean. Ochalea settled by non-wizards. 446 Alphas III. Son of Alphas II. Birth name Undaar. The Alatians are settled by Alphatians with no spellcasting ability. 538 Hadria. Daughter of Alphas III. Thyatian pirates raid the southern coast of the continent regularly. Thothia brought into the Empire after the destruction of Nithia and begin settling the Isle of Dawn. 701 Kerothar III. Son of Hadria. Birth name Raman. Pearl Islands conquered. 802 Alphas IV. Son of Kerothar III. Birth name Quanil. Esterhold settled. 810 Alphas V. Brother of Alphas IV / second son of Kerothar III. Birth name Zalosarr. Finished bringing Thyatis into the Empire. 898 Kerothar IV. Son of Alphas V. Birth name Smirinn. Emperor at the Milennium. Weakened the Empire's grip on Thyatis and other dominions until they revolted. Deposed by the Grand Council.   SECOND DYNASTY 1000 Alphas VI. Birth name Volnay. Powerful Council wizard picked by rest of Council to replace Kerothar IV. Forced by heavy losses to let Thyatis go. Embark on rebuilding plan by conquering in the east. Hired Ostland reavers to destroy Thyatian Cape Alpha in 1015. 1030 Alphas VII. Son of Alphas VI. Birth name Daricon. 1104 Tredorian I. Son of Alphas VII. 1143 Darynal I. Brother of Tredorian I/second son of Alphas VII. Deposed by the Council after only two years of rule. 1145 Tylion I. Brother of Tredorian I and Darynal I / third son of Alphas VII. Begins colonizing northern Alasiya. 1277 Volospin I . Son of Tylion I. 1330 Volospin II. Son of Volospin I. Birth name Xerdon. 1428 Volospin III. Son of Volospin II. Birth name Zumrulim. 1506 Tylari I. Daughter of Volospin III. The colonial Alasiyan wars between the Empire and Thyatis begin during Tylari's reign. Qeodhar brought into the Empire. 1585 Tylion II. Son of Tylari I. Birth name Lanathar. 1692 Tylari II. Sister of Tylion II / daughter of Tylari I. Birth name Solinara. Tylion II died in 1690, leaving his minor son as heir, and his sister Tylari as regent. With the help of treacherous Grand Council members, she crowned herself Empress two years later. She was deposed by Tylion III when he came of age 11 years later. 1703 Tylion III. Son of Tylion II. Birth name Astriadan. Began a beautification project in the Alatian Islands according to the teachings of Mylertendal. Two of his projects failed (Artesia and Aegos), but two (Gaity and Aeria) were great successes. During Tylion's reign, Halzunthram took over Flaemish Braejr. 1790 Endricort. Son of Tylari II. Chosen as Emperor over the daughter of Tylion III, who was mad. Lost Alasiya to the forces of Suleiman Al-Kalim. Near the end of Endricort's reign, Halzunthram was captured by the forces of Alexander Glantri, thus losing Braejr as well. Endricort was deposed the the Grand Council. 1829 Darynal II. Brother of Endricort / second son of Tylari II. Chosen by Council to succeed his brother. Soon abdicated to his daughter in order to have time for magical pursuits. 1836 Tylari III. Daughter of Darynal II. Birth name Linisyll. Disappeared on her quest for Immortality. 1919 Tylion IV. Son of Tylari III. Birth name Talasar. Began colonizing in Norwold. Launched Spike Assault on Thyatis in 1959-1960 which ended in the death of the ruler of Thyatis and his family. War subsequently turned in Thyatis's favour, and territory was lost. Council asked daughter Eriadna to convince Tylion to abdicate. 1962 Eriadna "the Wise." Daughter of Tylion IV. Engaged Alphatia in a successful war with Glantri and Thyatis which was lost only through Immortal treachery; the city of Sundsvall was destroyed and the continent of Alphatia sank beneath the waves (AY 2009). A new Alphatia was fashioned in the Hollow World as a floating continent, with Eriadna as Empress.   Hollow World Alphatia 1962-2009 (KW) and 2010-present (HW) Eriadna "the Wise" (see above)   New Alphatian Empire 2009 Zandor "the Mad." Son of Eriadna. Reunited most of the remaining former Alphatian dominions on the surface world with Seashield, Aquas, as capital but was completely mad. Deposed by a council of dominion rulers and taken to his mother in the Hollow World by Prince Haldemar of Haaken. 2012 New Alphatian Council. Rules "in Eriadna's name."   ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #9 ****************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Sunday, January 17 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 010 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Wizards of the Coast are...? Re: [MYSTARA] - Posting Question [MYSTARA] - ? regarding Shawn's Webpage....... Re: [MYSTARA] - United Criers Guild (long) Re: [MYSTARA] - [GANDERG@tc.gc.ca: Mystara Working Groups (v. 2.1)] Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel Re: [MYSTARA] - Repost Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards of the Coast are...? [MYSTARA] - hey Shawn...... Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards of the Coast are...? Re: [MYSTARA] - United Criers Guild (long) Re: [MYSTARA] - [GANDERG@tc.gc.ca: Mystara Working Groups (v. 2.1)] Re: [MYSTARA] - [GANDERG@tc.gc.ca: Mystara Working Groups (v. 2.1)] Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards of the Coast are...? Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne and Rad and Rafiel, oh my! Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne and Rad and Rafiel, oh my! Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne/Rad Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne and Rad and Rafiel, oh my! Re: [MYSTARA] - Posting Question Re: [MYSTARA] - Posting Question Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne/Rad Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards of the Coast are...? [MYSTARA] - Secret Craft origins Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards of the Coast are...? Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquas Re: [MYSTARA] - Posting Question Re: [MYSTARA] - Posting Question Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquas ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 18:51:59 +1300 From: Richard Vowles Subject: [MYSTARA] - Wizards of the Coast are...? I was at my local gaming store today (picked up old copies of M5, HWA3 and Areana of Thyatis for $NZ5 each (about $US2.50) they had multiple copies and some SpellJammer modules... for the same price) and the manage there said that Wizards of the Coast were getting TSR to re-release old D&D stuff and it was slowly coming thru... Anybody heard anything similar? Richard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 01:03:05 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Posting Question In a message dated 1/15/99 1:20:04 PM Central Standard Time, valerya@hotmail.com writes: << WebTV has given us a way to cut and paste (*whew!*), so although in the past I wan't able to post the stuff from my web page (the files, not the story) to the MML, I can do so now. Question is, *do* I? I know that most here have read that stuff already, and may not be interested in re-reading it, but posting it to the list will also get my stuff posted on stan's site, which I would like very much. So, would anyone consider themselves spammed if I posted the articles (I can add some comments beforehand or something), or would it be okay? >> Sounds fine to me........Is anyone outhere actually interested in stuff regarding Karameikos. I would like to start posting more stuff because my attempt at a webpage has ceased......FOR NOW........Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 01:05:08 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - ? regarding Shawn's Webpage....... Do you post all of the articles that contain info, or just the stuff you like? Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 01:12:52 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - United Criers Guild (long) In a message dated 1/15/99 6:10:02 PM Central Standard Time, clumsydwarf@hotmail.com writes: << Any input?...please! >> Sounds kewl dude........Do you have a webpage? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 01:23:18 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [GANDERG@tc.gc.ca: Mystara Working Groups (v. 2.1)] In a message dated 1/8/99 4:51:55 PM Central Standard Time, rvowles@sew.co.nz writes: << Geoff Gander wrote: > Old World: Michael Roy (mroy@cyberus.ca) > (Heldannic Knights): Geoff Gander (ganderg@tc.gc.ca) > (Shadow Elves): Fabrizio Paoli (brizio@lunet.it) > (Goblinoids): Andrew Theisen (jsmill@imap1.asu.edu) > (Atruaghin): Andrew Theisen (jsmill@imap1.asu.edu) No-one is working on The Northern Reaches? >> I would like to know you guys are interested in having me work on Karameikos and be on your staff.....Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 01:31:33 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel In a message dated 1/15/99 5:00:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, dornhoff@bio.umass.edu writes: << For that matter, once Benekander'd shown himself, Ka could've switched sides and helped Ixion stomp the Fellowship into the ground, eliminating BOTH Rad and Rafiel, and leaving just one Radiation-Immortal to perpetuate the "new breed": Benekander, whose mortal-friendly stance is probably a LOT more appealing to the big, scaly softie. >> Yes, but Ka may have seen that the radiance immortals were but a handful against many...very good odds that he culdn't stop what was about to happen if he let it start. Arminath *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 01:34:57 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Repost go for it Jenn! Arminath *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 01:42:04 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards of the Coast are...? In a message dated 1/16/99 12:01:11 AM Central Standard Time, rvowles@sew.co.nz writes: << I was at my local gaming store today (picked up old copies of M5, HWA3 and Areana of Thyatis for $NZ5 each (about $US2.50) they had multiple copies and some SpellJammer modules... for the same price) and the manage there said that Wizards of the Coast were getting TSR to re-release old D&D stuff and it was slowly coming thru... Anybody heard anything similar? Richard >> no, but that would be AWESOME.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 01:43:16 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - hey Shawn...... Could you send me those netmages as separate files........I can't figure out how to open .mim files......Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 01:44:48 EST From: EzJ25@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards of the Coast are...? WOTC/TSR are going to be re-releasing some of their most popular modules from the past in the TOMES format...Return to the Keep on the Borderland is the one I'm waiting for the most, but other ones are coming too. I'm not sure what the others are, but I think they may include the Against the Giants series as well. I just finished running Return to the Tomb of Horrors for my group, set in Karameikos...it was a blast since I've run the original module many years ago for most of the same players! Arminath *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 13:38:54 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - United Criers Guild (long) > Dateline CNN ... Mystara style! I like it! :-D I introduced quite a while ago the GlanCom-system (by Mover's Guild) for the Glantrian nobles to keep in touch with the web of intrigue and their dominions. The problem was that every self-respecting noble resides at least a half or a third of his time in the city, and even though they can teleport back and forth a few times a day, it seemed more... stylish to use arcane telecommunication instead. (And the beeping of the slightly Babylon-5:ish GlanCom-unit was a funny joke in the beginning :) - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 11:14:12 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [GANDERG@tc.gc.ca: Mystara Working Groups (v. 2.1)] Nurvel wrote: >I would like to know you guys are interested in having me work on Karameikos >and be on your staff.....Mike Well, I don't see any problem with that. How about the rest of you - any objections? Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 11:22:48 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [GANDERG@tc.gc.ca: Mystara Working Groups (v. 2.1)] In a message dated 1/16/99 10:15:47 AM Central Standard Time, au998@freenet.carleton.ca writes: << Nurvel wrote: >I would like to know you guys are interested in having me work on Karameikos >and be on your staff.....Mike Well, I don't see any problem with that. How about the rest of you - any objections? Geoff >> Just keep me posted....I was going to work on a webpage, but that is too difficult for my time allowed. I am going to make a netmag for Karameikos if I get enough time.......Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 11:25:10 EST From: Mystaros@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards of the Coast are...? In a message dated 1/16/99 12:01:11 AM Central Standard Time, rvowles@sew.co.nz writes: << I was at my local gaming store today (picked up old copies of M5, HWA3 and Areana of Thyatis for $NZ5 each (about $US2.50) they had multiple copies and some SpellJammer modules... for the same price) and the manage there said that Wizards of the Coast were getting TSR to re-release old D&D stuff and it was slowly coming thru... Anybody heard anything similar? Richard >> I would say that the items you found were from the "fire sale" that began when TSR first started having problems, and that is still ongoing in some places (that is, they sold anything they could, especially the old stuff that they got back from Random House, at cut-rate discounts to distributors for quick cash)... Old stuff is EXTREMELY UNLIKELY to be rereleased, unless in a new format (which will include B2: Keep on the Borderlands sometime either second or third quarter this year)... Mystaros *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 13:10:28 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne and Rad and Rafiel, oh my! At 21.39 14/01/99 -0500, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: >The gap between Immortal and mortal >may be larger, but that doesn't change the injustice of treating other >intelligent beings like guinea pigs. But what's an "intelligent being" for an Immortal? Immortals are on a higher level of "intelligence" that's difficult to imagine for us. I don't know how to explain it. Let's consider humans as intelligent and guinea pig as stupid. Guinea pigs will consider _themselves_ as intelligent and ants as stupid. So Immortals, being on the top of the ladder, will consider themselves as intelligent and everyone else as stupid. On the other hand would you consider someone who worships you intelligent? I wouldn't ;-) >On top of that, Rafiel never actually EARNED his Immortality -- not even by >mastering the NoS, as Rad did; his "ascension" was purely an accident -- so >he's the LAST one who's got any business, claiming his status as an >Immortal marks him as "superior" to anyone. On the other hand the way he "earned" Immortality may make him think he's superior to everyone else who used the "standard" way, i.e. 90% of the Immortals. >If anything, his willingness >to treat elves as puppets and lab rats might have more to do with the >Blackmoorians' old enmity for Evergrun: it wasn't a MILITARY nuclear >facility Rafiel worked in, as a mortal, by any chance...? Enmity for Evergrun? Weren't the elves to consider Blackmoorians as enemies? >Maybe there's a potential plotline here, if some other Immortal -- perhaps >Ordana, now that the SEs are getting used to the surface and know what a >tree is again; or Ilsundal, if we want the conflict to be a lot more heated >-- started to lure some of the Aengmorans away from the shamans' teachings: >renewing their affinity for surface-elf magics; granting sanctuary to >couples whose infants are born just slightly deformed (e.g. extra fingers, >hunchbacked, blind) and who don't want to abandon them; asking them why, if >ol' Rafiel's so great and all-knowing, he never once mentioned that the >surface world had been habitable (!), all along. It could even make for a >neat surface-world parallel storyline, to be run concurrently with the >Atruaghin-as-Quetzalcoatl plot, in the HW ... a sort of worldwide >reassessment of dubious Immortals' roles, that every culture which endured >WotI ought to be prone to, in the next few decades. The loss of faith in Rafiel of the Aengmorians is something that has been considered in the SE group of Almanac Team. Thanks for the plotline. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@gdr.net Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 13:30:48 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne and Rad and Rafiel, oh my! At 15.01 15/01/99 -0500, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: >If Rafiel took THAT much of a hand in the malformed babies' lives, he could >just as easily have corrected their genetic defects during gestation, and >been done with it. Frankly, my guess is he COULD have fixed them ... he >just couldn't be bothered to. Ethan already gave some good reasons. I'll add another one. Malformed babies is also a way to contain the growth of SE population. Remember that those caves cannot sustain too many people. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@gdr.net Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 13:36:24 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne/Rad At 20.59 14/01/99 -0500, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: >If there's one thing you'd expect Hierarchs to know about, it's conditions >on other planes ... including planes with far lower levels of magic than >Mystara has. Ixion, for example, isn't JUST an Immortal for Mystara; he's >THE supreme power for Energy in the oD&D multiverse, and would know >perfectly well that magical creatures can't survive in a magic-poor world: >he's seen plane-traveling demihumans, planar spiders, and other >magic-dependent creatures die out, on hundreds of low- or no-magic worlds, >after getting stranded there! Granted, Rad might not have believed him ... >or cared ... but there's no reason to think that ancient Immortals like >Korotiku -- who's surely got planar spider followers on other worlds, and >would know of those worlds' circumstances -- wouldn't be well aware of the >Nucleus's potential "side effects" on magical races. Ok, but why elves? What makes elves different from humans, dwarves, rakastas, gnomes, lupins, halflings.... except the long ears, I mean :-) Why are they considered a magical race? ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@gdr.net Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 13:11:45 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne and Rad and Rafiel, oh my! At 08.20 15/01/99 PST, Jennifer Favia wrote: >OH, BTW--Gaz 13 mentions that Porphyriel was seeking Immortality...has >anyone pursued that story line? We've discussed about it the Net-Almanac team, but we decided it's still too early for her to attain Immortality. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 10:24:06 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Posting Question >Sounds fine to me........Is anyone outhere actually interested in stuff >regarding Karameikos. I would like to start posting more stuff because my >attempt at a webpage has ceased......FOR NOW........Mike Yeah, Mike! I liked your thing on Stefan as Halav, and I would really like to see more. Keep posting! You can compile it all to the web page later. Jenn Explore Dark Myst Manor! http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 15:21:02 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Posting Question In a message dated 1/16/99 12:29:16 PM Central Standard Time, valerya@hotmail.com writes: << Yeah, Mike! I liked your thing on Stefan as Halav, and I would really like to see more. Keep posting! You can compile it all to the web page later. Jenn >> Kewl.....one of the peeps on the Almanac team said that it would be kewl for me to do stuff for Karameikos........I will post more stuff, but i was wondering if I should do the stuff for ac1017............ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 15:33:17 -0500 (EST) From: Frederic Ferro Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne/Rad On Sat, 16 Jan 1999, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > Ok, but why elves? What makes elves different from humans, dwarves, > rakastas, gnomes, lupins, halflings.... except the long ears, I mean :-) > Why are they considered a magical race? Mystaran elves are linked to the Fairies & the Wee Folk, aren't they? What does Creature Crucible #1 (PC1) say about that? And if we believe Gunnarsson's _Dragonmage of Mystara_, Elder elves were related to Dragons which are inherently magical creatures (I don't know if the "canonical" sources have ever confirmed this idea). Frederic - -- http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/1054/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 10:00:23 +1300 From: Richard Vowles Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards of the Coast are...? Mystaros@aol.com wrote: > I would say that the items you found were from the "fire sale" that began when > TSR first started having problems, and that is still ongoing in some places > (that is, they sold anything they could, especially the old stuff that they > got back from Random House, at cut-rate discounts to distributors for quick > cash)... Old stuff is EXTREMELY UNLIKELY to be rereleased, unless in a new > format (which will include B2: Keep on the Borderlands sometime either second > or third quarter this year)... You are probably right - I will talk to my local TSR distributor and see if they have any old stuff in stock, I may purchase a whole bundle and stick it up on the web for sale. I am also in the process of scanning and OCRing the GAZs and maps that I have to try and preserve them (as most of them are over 15 years old) - I am putting them back into a book form using Adobe FrameMaker and adding the pictures. I wonder if I can pass these on to other people who can prove they own a copy of the original? (e.g what is on page x, x paragrah, x word in sort of thing). Richard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 16:59:02 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: [MYSTARA] - Secret Craft origins In her recent cool post on the Darine, Jenn wrote: >Darine Mystic > >The Darine Mystic is especially found in the Kaldresh tribe. The >character is usually a woman. The Mystic is a master of will over spirit >and matter. As such, she is a consummate fortune-teller, charmer, and >faith healer, with other abilities similar to those of a Wokani. > Reading that made me wonder: what backstories might people have come up with (if any), for how the 7 Secret Crafts of Glantri got started? Presumably these bodies of arcane study didn't just appear out of nowhere; some researcher (or group of them) must have laid out the groundwork for each of the different "specializations", which later became the seven Crafts associated with the Great School. So where in the KW did they come from, and when/how? Some possibilities that occurred to me, include: Alchemy -- While most of its modern practitioners are Averoignese, you'd think this would HAVE to be an older discipline than that: it's how most magic items get produced, after all! As the only Craft that isn't fully "magical" (you can't Dispel its effects, IIRC), this could've been derived from Blackmoor's chemical and mechanical engineering sciences, which the Glantrians later dressed up in the trappings of magic. Cryptomancy -- Obviously, this has ties to Alfheim; in fact, elvish "use-names" function an awful lot like the High Master's glyphs! However, various non-Alfheimer elves don't seem to know about name-magic, so it couldn't have been something the Evergrun elves knew about. (IMC, the Erewan family learned this kind of magic from the "elves" -- aranea, really - -- of Herath, while briefly passing through their lands on Ilsundal's migration from Davania.) Dracology -- If you acknowledge the "Dragonlord" novels as true, then Glantri's had a close tie with the Immortal Diamond almost from the nation's beginning. In which case, Thelvyn Fox-Eyes might well have shared some of the dragons' secrets with his Flaemish allies, to seal their alliance and boost their chances of winning out against the Overlord. Otherwise, I think Bruce Heard's article on dragon Immortals said something about this. Dream Mastery -- Not sure about this one, though its link with the Nightmare Dimension is pretty clear. Maybe some brain collectors or diaboli once came through the World Mountain gateway, and traded magical secrets with the Virayanas' hakoman ancestors...? Elementalism -- Presumably this came from Old Alphatia, since the Aendyrs knew Air and the Vlaardoens know Fire. The Earth and Water disciplines must have either survived the cross-planar journey, also, or been rediscovered on Mystara in imitation of the other elements' Crafts. Necromancy -- Lots o' possibilities, here! Three sources I can think of, off-hand: 1) Revealed directly to Morphail by Alphaks, thus originating with the Sphere of Death. 2) Brought to Traldar lands from Nithia by necromancers fleeing their nation's collapse, thus originating with the Cult of Thanatos. 3) Dug up out of Taymoran ruins on the Karameikos coast, thus originating with Mystaros' "Necromancer-Kings" of the Taymoran Empire. Take your pick. :-) Wokanism -- I'd been guessing this might tie in with the "wise women" of the Northern Reaches (the only other all-female spellcasters I could think of)... but Jenn's Darine Mystics seem like a much better source for these folks, now. ;-) How the Belcadiz could've picked up their skills, I've no idea. Just my own thoughts on the subject, of course. Totally non-canon and optional ... and the High Masters would deny it all if you asked them, anyway! :-) Are there any other theories out there for where Glantri's unique (non-Radience) magics could have come from, or any "Secret Craft" histories others might have already worked up...? If so, post them please: I'd love to know! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 17:04:07 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards of the Coast are...? >You are probably right - I will talk to my local TSR distributor and see >if they >have any old >stuff in stock, I may purchase a whole bundle and stick it up on the web >for sale. At THOSE prices, you certainly ought to, Richard! Unless the shipping-cost from NZ is truly egregious (I wouldn't think it would be; there are discounts for "books" mailed overseas, aren't there...?), I'm sure there's plenty of us back here in the States, who would welcome the chance to find old material. :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 19:22:21 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquas In a message dated 1/15/99 5:02:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, anpro@accesocero.es writes: << You are right for the Create spell which keep Aquas' "shell" working, but this does not solve the AIR supply problem (the air is permanent, but it will have become vitiated enough in a week unless refreshed by new spells). I must agree with Marco: it must be some kind of artifact power, perhaps brought about by its powerful creator following (successful or not) the Path of the Parangon. >> sorry to get in on this thread so late but personal matters have kept me offline the last week or so. most of the answers to the Aquas questions can be found in the Aquas description in PWA3. air is supplied by air purification stations. the domes are magically grown crystal hemispheres. the text tells of the domes' countermeasures and precautions against breaches. so i would assume they have emergency air producing systems within the domes. Zyndryl perished giving his life to save his people. i presume this was during emergency measures following the shimmers from Alphatia's sinking. so the idea of his attaining immortality does come into play. a little bird has told me that some of this may be seen in the upcoming Net Almanac. weird huh? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 18:20:19 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Posting Question Nurvel wrote: >I will post more stuff, but i was >wondering if I should do the stuff for ac1017............ Just throw it out there without a date, if you want; if it doesn't fit into 1017, then they'll fit it for '18. Or, make your own timeline. You don't have to be in the current Almanac year; we play in 1026. Depends on if you like faster-moving games. Jenn Explore Dark Myst Manor! http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 21:52:01 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Posting Question In a message dated 1/16/99 8:23:04 PM Central Standard Time, valerya@hotmail.com writes: << Just throw it out there without a date, if you want; if it doesn't fit into 1017, then they'll fit it for '18. Or, make your own timeline. You don't have to be in the current Almanac year; we play in 1026. Depends on if you like faster-moving games. Jenn >> damn...that is fast. The sequences dealing with Halav have to be in the correct order......but i know what you mean...mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 02:57:46 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquas In a message dated 1999-01-15 07:48:24 Eastern Standard Time, EzJ25@aol.com writes: > Well, if ye're looking for opinions, I'd be of the school of thought that > says Alphatia used her immortal magic to fortify the bubble. Or, more likely, Aquas was built by magic but for the most part not maintained by it. That seemingly minor distinction can be quite important in a case like this -- since the output of such spells as "Fabricate" lasts indefinitely, does not radiate magic, and cannot be dispelled, it does not suddenly disappear or fall apart when the magic fails. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #10 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, January 18 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 011 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquas Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquas Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel Re: [MYSTARA] - SoP Problems Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne and Rad and Rafiel, oh my! Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquas [MYSTARA] - Magic Races Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne/Rad Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquas Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - United Criers Guild (long) Re: [MYSTARA] - SoP Problems Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquas Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel [MYSTARA] - Clark Ashton Smith's Stuff Online Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel Re: [MYSTARA] - SoP Problems Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquas Re: [MYSTARA] - SoP Problems [MYSTARA] - Question? Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquas ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 02:57:47 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquas In a message dated 1999-01-15 09:05:04 Eastern Standard Time, Magesmiley@aol.com writes: > I think that it if you look at the assorted OD&D spells (I haven't checked > AD&D yet so don't burn me on that) which create wood, stone, iron, steel, > etc. you will find that they create permanent, non-magical, substances. I don't > have my books handy but thats what I remember. Quite correct -- that is exactly why Aquas was able to survive the Week of No Magic. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 02:57:49 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquas In a message dated 1999-01-15 08:00:24 Eastern Standard Time, mmontola@cc.hut.fi writes: > I think that the effects of highly permanent or monumental nature are not > affected by day/week with no magic. I just don't see all the undead of > Mystara suddenly dropping dead as permanent magical abilities of magical > creatures cease to exist, Skeletons and zombies are probably deanimated by the loss of magic -- more powerful undead most likely are merely left dormant or lose most of their powers temporarily. I would imagine that a vampire who returns to his coffin on the morning of Kaldmont 27 simply emerges at dusk on Nuwmont 1, and soon figures out that he overslept by a couple of days. > or the aerial navy of Alfatia coming crashing > down once in a year as the magical forms of flight become immediately > cancelled. Alphatian skyships are quite vulnerable to magic loss -- note what happens to them whenever they try to enter or leave the Hollow World. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 02:57:57 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel In a message dated 1999-01-15 13:02:13 Eastern Standard Time, Arminath@aol.com writes: > Besides, if Ixion tries to destroy > the Radiance Immortals outright, won't that slide him into evil and alienate > him from a big number of his worshippers, thereby reducing his overall power? > > I'm sure his enemies are waiting for that day... Well, he already tried to destroy Rad.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 02:57:55 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - SoP Problems In a message dated 1999-01-15 11:33:08 Eastern Standard Time, valerya@hotmail.com writes: > That makes me wonder: what are the *ill* effects of the > SoP?? Sharon has mentioned that it will not allow the > elves to breed out their birth defects; it also keeps > the Gentle Folk from healing from their > (Thanatos-enforced) guilt over the Broken Lands > explosion. Others? Let's see -- The Azcans can never totally eliminate human sacrifice. No primitive culture is capable of technological advancement, even if that culture would have welcomed such development in the outer world. But I think the two you identified are the worst. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 05:27:54 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne and Rad and Rafiel, oh my! In a message dated 1999-01-15 15:05:28 Eastern Standard Time, dornhoff@bio.umass.edu writes: > If Rafiel took THAT much of a hand in the malformed babies' lives, he could > just as easily have corrected their genetic defects during gestation, and > been done with it. Frankly, my guess is he COULD have fixed them ... he > just couldn't be bothered to. And orcs aren't THAT stupid: if they can > tell a red orc from a common orc, or a goblin from a hobgoblin, they're > certainly not going to mistake an elf with a walleye or clubfoot for one of > their own kind! I think that Rafiel must be influencing the exact course that those birth defects take so that those abandoned infants can indeed be mistaken for goblinoids. This would require altering their appearances as well as shortening their life spans so that they can grow up at least as fast as humans do. I suspect that his purpose in doing this is that he is trying to "uplift" the goblinoids and mold them into a more intelligent and more magically capable species -- and make them better neighbors for the Shadow Elves while he is at it. Now if only he could get some of them to worship Rafiel instead of the goblinoid Immortals.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 05:27:55 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel In a message dated 1999-01-15 17:00:29 Eastern Standard Time, dornhoff@bio.umass.edu writes: > Amusing thought: If Ka's ONLY motivation for shielding Rad and Rafiel from > Ixion's wrath was to prevent Radience Immortals -- an "endangered species", > at least in Allston's opinion -- from becoming extinct, the ol' lizard > could just as easily have let the Sun-Prince blast Rad into oblivion, THEN > intervened on Rafiel's behalf! After all, it's not as if a "new breed of > Immortal" needs to undergo reproduction or maintain some minimum gene pool, > to preserve itself; so long as ONE of them stuck around, > radiation-Immortals wouldn't really be "extinct", now would they....? But keep in mind that as far as Ka knew Rad was the only one of the two (actually three, but Ka did not know that yet....) Radiance Immortals who was capable of "reproducing" -- those experiments of Rad's that Ixion was so keen to stop were the only known way of producing more Radiance Immortals. I think that the truth is that Ka saw some inherent problems in the current Immortal hierarchy -- remember that there are entire missing "generations" of Immortals, and as a literal sentient dinosaur Ka would be more aware of this past history than most of his fellow Immortals. Perhaps from his point of view the endangered species was not Radiance Immortals but Immortals of any kind? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 05:27:57 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel In a message dated 1999-01-15 17:02:03 Eastern Standard Time, valerya@hotmail.com writes: > For example, I'm a dictator. I rule with an iron > fist, and my troops kill anyone who is asociated with any of my > political enemies, including their families. I also think that my > country would be better off without certain types of people, like > vagrants or people with deformities or people whose religion I don't > like or people with whom my people have fought for thousands of years. > So I exterminate them. Am I evil? Yes. What do I think of myself?--I'm > doing the "right" thing. > > I'm not trying to go off on a moral relativistic bent here, but I think > you'll see my point. Rafiel does not have to see himself as evil to *be* > evil nonetheless. I think you may have just made the first good argument for Rafiel not being evil without realizing it. Note the point about exterminating the deformed -- Rafiel has not done that. He has commanded his followers to abandon deformed infants -- but from the available sources it seems clear that he ensures that those abandoned infants are found and raised by others, and that these infants tend to become the spiritual leaders of the people among whom they are raised. Has he helped or harmed those deformed infants? The answer seems at best to be rather unclear. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 08:00:31 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel In a message dated 1/17/99 2:59:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, Kaviyd@aol.com writes: << Well, he already tried to destroy Rad.... >> Very true, but he didn't try to do it directly, he tried a Master Stroke (CotI p81-82) that backfired horribly. IMC those have a negative effect on the immortal failing the attempt, but realistically Ixion came out on top, even though he failed. All that for nothing! Arminath *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 08:09:49 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquas In a message dated 1/17/99 2:59:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, Kaviyd@aol.com writes: << Or, more likely, Aquas was built by magic but for the most part not maintained by it. That seemingly minor distinction can be quite important in a case like this -- since the output of such spells as "Fabricate" lasts indefinitely, does not radiate magic, and cannot be dispelled, it does not suddenly disappear or fall apart when the magic fails. >> True, but that also depends on which system ye're playing with. OD&D has no 'Fabricate' spell, or 'Glass Steel' magics. Arminath *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 09:38:13 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Magic Races Hmm, all this talk about the loss of magic due to the Radience and its effects on magical races (ie: elves and dragons) has me thinking. Just what makes elves so magical, and are they really all that magical? IMO, and IMC, they aren't magical at all. Sure, they cast spells, they live a long time, and they have infravision, but so do a lot of other races, and in fact humans appear to be more adept at magical arts than elves (given level limits in the RC, but then again, I use Gaz 5 and 13, and raised elvish level limits to 20, as per those rules). They may have had some link to the faeries at some distant point in the past, but I always figured (again, IMO) that for them to cross the bridge from their immortal faerie kin to the mortal lives they lead today, something must have happened. To that end, I decided that c. BC 5000 or so (when the elves lost the protection of the forest spirits and were forced to grow on their own), they became nonmagical, but still sharing a great reverence for magic. So, if magic were to fade completely, they would be devastated, and might use the powers remaining to them to go "somewhere else", I don't think they would simply die off. All my opinion, and IMC, of course. I also don't think I'll be using the magic-draining properties of the Radiance, either, for my campaign, but that's another story.... :) Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 12:57:44 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne/Rad In a message dated 1999-01-16 13:00:05 Eastern Standard Time, brizio@lunet.it writes: > Ok, but why elves? What makes elves different from humans, dwarves, > rakastas, gnomes, lupins, halflings.... except the long ears, I mean :-) > Why are they considered a magical race? I think that is a holdover from the D&D rules -- since D&D elves by default are fighter/mages, they are considered as having an inherent talent for magic. All of the other races are non-spellcasters by default. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 13:18:04 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquas In a message dated 1999-01-17 08:11:04 Eastern Standard Time, Arminath@aol.com writes: > True, but that also depends on which system ye're playing with. OD&D has no > 'Fabricate' spell, or 'Glass Steel' magics. Actually, D&D does have a "Fabricate" spell -- it is described in the _Dawn of the Emperors_ boxed set. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 09:53:04 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel >Has he helped or >harmed those deformed infants? The answer seems at best to be >rather unclear. No, I don't think so...Since no matter what he has done with those infants, they wouldn't be defeormed in the first place if it weren't for him. That's the same logic as giving someone monetary compensation for disabling them in, say, a car accident; they would not be disabled in the first place if you hadn't hurt them...So whatever compensation you give is, in that light, immaterial. Jenn ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 13:52:14 EST From: BoBoII@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - United Criers Guild (long) In a message dated 1/15/99 8:59:08 PM, you wrote: <<>If you can keep up with it it >is an improvement and a good addition to any Mystaran campaign. >> You could build a short campaign about low-level characters who are cash strapped, who become "war/adventure correspondents to raise some money. Its a way to get them involved in political campaigns long before "Name level" adventures and can lead to amazing adventures in search of the story . . . Marco Polo, Anyone? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 14:58:03 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - SoP Problems What is SoP...its hard dor me to follow this stuff becuase all of you know more about this stuff than me...Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 12:10:41 PST From: "matthew nash" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquas >True, but that also depends on which system ye're playing with. OD&D has no >'Fabricate' spell, or 'Glass Steel' magics. > >Arminath first off, just because a spell isn't in a book doesn't mean that an industrious alphatian mage who wanted to make an under sea city couldn't make alot of new spells that would be handy in the creation of one. that isn't even nessecary because all you need to do is whip out a steel or iron form spell, enchant it with create air or other appropriate spell, then half the size and give it the special effect of being transparent. that's using the rules from champs of mystara giggles ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 16:34:53 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel In a message dated 1999-01-17 13:27:25 Eastern Standard Time, valerya@hotmail.com writes: > No, I don't think so...Since no matter what he has done with those > infants, they wouldn't be defeormed in the first place if it weren't for > him. That's the same logic as giving someone monetary compensation for > disabling them in, say, a car accident; they would not be disabled in > the first place if you hadn't hurt them...So whatever compensation you > give is, in that light, immaterial. But it should be pointed out that these infants, once they have grown up a little, have no idea that their parents considered them deformed -- they believe themselves to be ordinary goblins, orcs, or whatever. Actually, they are not so ordinary -- they have more magical talent than most of their peers and thus have the potential to become the spiritual leaders of their people. Had they grown up among the shadow elves, that talent would be nothing exceptional, as all elves have it. It is this total change in outlook and prospects that raises the question of whether Rafiel has helped or harmed the infants who are abandoned by the shadow elves -- their only loss is a longevity that they would never know they were entitled to, and their gain is a greatly improved chance at becoming a great wizard and leader among their people. The real harm that Rafiel does is not to these abandoned babies (who feel no real sense of loss) but to their parents. By having them abandon their apparently deformed infants and cast out their elderly, he creates callous moral attitudes in them. I think it is no coincidence that the shadow elves who do not serve Rafiel for the most part serve the evil Atzanteotl -- Rafiel paved the way by teaching them to be callous. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 17:52:33 -0700 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Clark Ashton Smith's Stuff Online I don't think I have posted this to the list yet (I was going to, but I _think_ I spaced it off). There is a site that has posted a large amount of CAS's short stories (legally). The Averoigne stories of Smith were the primary original inspiration for the D'Ambrevilles of Glantri. What's better than free stuff? http://members.xoom.com/eldritchdark/index.html Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com ICQ #20039817 "Well, it seems the people see you as something of an ogre, sir." "What? Why, I ought to crush them and eat their bones!" The Simpsons *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:22:17 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel On Fri, 15 Jan 1999, Jennifer Favia wrote: > So I exterminate them. Am I evil? Yes. What do I think of myself?--I'm ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ That's relative though. Rafiel is not evil. The lives lost vs. the lives saved by the reuge of stone almost proves it. What Rafiel does, in the course of his day's work, to a relatively average American may seem brutal, and I'll concede that point. However, we must remember that different cultures see things very differently, and to the SE culture, there just as well may not be a better way. Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 19:50:44 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - SoP Problems Mike wrote: >What is SoP...its hard dor me to follow this stuff becuase all of you know >more about this stuff than me...Mike It's the Spell of Preservation, which preserves the cultures of the Hollow World. Jenn ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 23:28:50 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquas In a message dated 1999-01-17 15:12:53 Eastern Standard Time, g1ggles@hotmail.com writes: > that isn't even nessecary because all you need to do is whip out a steel > or iron form spell, enchant it with create air or other appropriate > spell, then half the size and give it the special effect of being > transparent. That would all be good except for the part about the "Create Air" spell -- that effect would fail when the magic does, even though the dome would remain intact and transparent. Some sort of mundane backup system would be required. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 23:58:07 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - SoP Problems In a message dated 1/17/99 9:52:43 PM Central Standard Time, valerya@hotmail.com writes: << t's the Spell of Preservation, which preserves the cultures of the Hollow World. Jenn >> Thanks for the help. You "peeps" get really involved in this stuff. I like it. Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 00:00:21 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Question? I am going to compile a netmag for Karameikos, and I know there are a few people out there that I have gotten stuff related to Karameikos from. Do those people want me to include your stuff...of course with credit to you. I.E. The Traladaran Gypses that Jenn has produced. Stuff like that...send me stuff if you want....Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 03:49:30 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquas Another (albeit unlikely) possibility is that Aquas might have recruited an emergency convoy of merrow, tritons, and kna to fetch giant bubbles of air from the surface, "bucket brigade" style. This wouldn't have been enough to keep the city's air genuinely fresh, but at least it could've helped the Aquans hang on, for the last desperate couple of days, once the air under the dome really started to go bad ... especially if the kna used their mashers, to haul the air-shipments down from above. Sure, it sounds silly ... but hey, these are Alphatians we're talking about! (The folks who dug 1200 miles straight down using hordes of robotic caterpillers, remember?) More interestingly, it'd open up the plot thread of those aquatic races -- who didn't previously have citizenship in the empire, according to DotE -- demanding equal representation in the NACE alliance, in recompense for their having saved the city. The loss of Trollhatten from the surface world is one of the more drab features of NACE, IMHO, and getting some nonhumans back into the KW half of Alphatia would help make up for that. >Zyndryl perished giving his life to save his people. i presume this was during >emergency measures following the shimmers from Alphatia's sinking. so the idea >of his attaining immortality does come into play. Just to go off on a tangent, it occurs to me that Zyndryl's half-merrow daughter provides at least one bit of evidence that that "gag" remark in PC3 -- the one about humans having evolved from merfolk -- might not be as crazy as it sounds! The other piece of supporting evidence that occurs to me is that merrow, like humans, are common carriers of lycanthropy ... although only those who contract the "shark" version of the disease seem to survive their first transformation, for obvious reasons ("Hoowww-GLUB!"). Anybody else want to toss this idea around, that perhaps Mystara's humans really ARE descended from merrow...? Gotta admit, it'd be different! :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #11 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, January 18 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 012 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel RE: [MYSTARA] - Wanted: Wrath of the Immortals etc. Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquas [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Prime Directive Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne/Rad Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Prime Directive Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel Re: [MYSTARA] - Question? Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards of the Coast are...? Re: [MYSTARA] - Elven Clans Re: [MYSTARA] - Elven Clans Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Races [MYSTARA] - RE:Aquas [MYSTARA] - Elves vs. Magical Beings...... Re: [MYSTARA] - Question? Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards of the Coast are...? Re: [MYSTARA] - Elven Clans [MYSTARA] - The Good, the Bad, and mr. Rafiel ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 04:33:13 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel >I think you may have just made the first good argument for Rafiel not >being evil without realizing it. Note the point about exterminating the >deformed -- Rafiel has not done that. He has commanded his followers >to abandon deformed infants -- but from the available sources it seems >clear that he ensures that those abandoned infants are found and >raised by others, and that these infants tend to become the spiritual >leaders of the people among whom they are raised. Has he helped or >harmed those deformed infants? The answer seems at best to be >rather unclear. As Jenn and I have already pointed out, the shadow elves would have LONG since ceased to give birth to deformed infants -- just as the Gentle Folk did, before being taken to the HW -- were they not forever re-exposing themselves to the Radiance by the shamans' use of soul crystals. Had Rafiel only chosen to grant his shamans their spells in the normal fashion, like any other Immortal, those infants would never have BEEN deformed, in the first place! They could've grown up among the shadow elves, and led far longer, easier lives than to grown up among the humanoids ... races whose lives -- as even Wogar himself remarks in Gaz10 -- are so harsh and brutish and destitute, it's literally the Mystaran equivalent of Purgatory. In any case, you're missing the point, when you argue that Rafiel gives the abandoned infants a place to live. Whether or not the babies survive isn't really what's so horrible, about it ... it's that, so far as the shamans and parents of the abandoned children know, they REALLY ARE murdering those helpless infants, for the "crime" of being ugly and different! Maybe an orc will stumble over a baby, and take it home, but the ELVES certainly aren't aware of that ... and the fact that they DON'T know it, isn't stopping them from doing it, anyway! THAT'S what Rafiel has taught "his" people to believe: that their infants' deformities are a mark of sin, NOT bad luck; and that their own children DESERVE to be abandoned to their deaths, for bearing those marks. Their whole culture might LOOK "nice", on the surface, but there's an incredible prejudice against weakness of ANY kind, in the CoS shadow elves -- the same one that's turned on their elderly, too -- and it's mostly Rafiel, who put it there. Go back and re-read the text from Gaz13, where the shaman and mother leave the baby alone in the dark -- crying its lungs out; scared to death in a strange, cold, empty place; not understanding why Mommy is deliberately REFUSING to save its life! Then tell me that that's not wrong, even if the infant's misery IS temporary. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 04:48:00 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel >> Amusing thought: If Ka's ONLY motivation for shielding Rad and Rafiel from >> Ixion's wrath was to prevent Radience Immortals -- an "endangered species", >> at least in Allston's opinion -- from becoming extinct, the ol' lizard >> could just as easily have let the Sun-Prince blast Rad into oblivion, THEN >> intervened on Rafiel's behalf! After all, it's not as if a "new breed of >> Immortal" needs to undergo reproduction or maintain some minimum gene pool, >> to preserve itself; so long as ONE of them stuck around, >> radiation-Immortals wouldn't really be "extinct", now would they....? > >But keep in mind that as far as Ka knew Rad was the only one of the two >(actually three, but Ka did not know that yet....) Radiance Immortals who >was capable of "reproducing" -- those experiments of Rad's that Ixion was >so keen to stop were the only known way of producing more Radiance >Immortals. Irrelevant. Immortals don't die, unless another Immortal kills them! Therefore, they don't NEED to reproduce themselves, to survive as a "species". Ka, as an unchanging Matter-Immortal, only preserves that which already exists; creating new species -- or new Immortals, within a "subspecies" -- is not his department. >I think that the truth is that Ka saw some inherent problems in the current >Immortal hierarchy -- remember that there are entire missing "generations" >of Immortals, and as a literal sentient dinosaur Ka would be more aware >of this past history than most of his fellow Immortals. Perhaps from his >point of view the endangered species was not Radiance Immortals but >Immortals of any kind? Actually, Mystara's Immortals -- ESPECIALLY those of Energy -- have multiplied so rapidly, in the last 6000 years, I think Ka'd worry more about Immortal OVERpopulation! Immortals certainly DON'T need the Radiance, to perpetuate their kind; the regular, everyday Paths of Immortality are creating more beings of their sort, all the time. (Indeed, with the NoS's having generated a grand total of ONE Energy-Immortal in 5000 years, one wonders what all the fuss was about, that'd make the other Spheres curse the thing in the first place!) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 11:46:04 +0100 From: Nicolas Vangenot Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Wanted: Wrath of the Immortals etc. Hi, I can help you for two books... I have the Mark of Amber which include de complete description of the Castle. This box set is present in all RPG store in Belgium... And I have got too the Wrath of the Immortals. this one, isn't more in store. If you want I can send you a copie of those... Let me know what you prefer by mail... (hecate@chez.com) - -----Original Message----- From: Markus Olavi Montola [SMTP:mmontola@cc.hut.fi] Sent: Thursday 14 January 1999 14:43 To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Wanted: Wrath of the Immortals etc. (Sorry 'bout spamming the list, but after rummaging around the Web for ages) I'd really like to buy following, if anyone has spare copies or knows from where to obtain them: The Elves of the Alfheim Mark of Amber Castle Amber The Wrath of the Immortals It is _really_ hard to get these in Finland where I live, I have hunted the Elves for five years (or something) now... - Markus Montola, GM:ing in Glantri for third year now... ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 07:50:35 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquas In a message dated 1/17/99 1:19:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, Kaviyd@aol.com writes: << Actually, D&D does have a "Fabricate" spell -- it is described in the _Dawn of the Emperors_ boxed set. >> Ah really? Would you be so kind as to send it? Arminath *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 08:08:12 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Prime Directive OK, OK, with all this talk of Immortals transplanting cultures to the hollow world (like Ka) and keeping them sheltered and hidden away(Rafiel, until the WotI events) and a few other MAJOR things, what is the "no direct intervention" rule for? It seems like whenever an Immortal wants to do something, all the others turn their backs and say "what we can't see we don't acknowledge". Rafiel IS a putz of an Immortal, but I think he's more shelfish than evil, pressing the SE into re-creating his experiment from the blackmoor era. It seems like he's a supra-genius that never developed emotion...maybe "he" is acutally the AI that ran the real Rafiel's lab... Oh, I know this was covered a while back, but did anyone think that the new Immortal in Sind might be Danira Voshane, the first woman to master the secrets of the Radiance? Arminath *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 10:39:12 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Etienne/Rad On Sat, 16 Jan 1999, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > rakastas, gnomes, lupins, halflings.... except the long ears, I mean :-) > Why are they considered a magical race? Elves are magical because all elves are fighter-mages (at least in the OD&D system) I suppose if you play AD&D, they may not be considered magical, since they don't all perform magic. Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 10:52:00 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel On Mon, 18 Jan 1999, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: > the baby alone in the dark -- crying its lungs out; scared to death in a > strange, cold, empty place; not understanding why Mommy is deliberately > REFUSING to save its life! Then tell me that that's not wrong, even if the > infant's misery IS temporary. Oi, the humanity. One cannot judge the Shadow Elves by modern morals. If we were reading this message in the dark ages, I'd wonder why you cared so much about a child who would be mocked by his peers anyway. Mystara is not on a modern moral plane. Thyatis still has Gladiator battles, is it Evil? Glantian politics reads like Machiavelli. Is it Evil? Trolls like to eat humans, are they evil? Blackmoor probably caused the deaths of over a billion people. Is it Evil? A male Lion may kill some of it's male cubs, is it Evil? No. Morality is relative. Maybe Shadow Elves can be perfectly well adjusted Individuals and leave their babies in caves. Maybe "mommy" isnt a word that Elves use. I seem to remember that Elves raise their children communally anyway. Its not quite correct to apply human attitudes to a completely different race. Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 11:03:08 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Immortal Prime Directive In a message dated 1999-01-18 08:10:27 Eastern Standard Time, Arminath@aol.com writes: > OK, OK, with all this talk of Immortals transplanting cultures to the hollow > world (like Ka) and keeping them sheltered and hidden away(Rafiel, until the > WotI events) and a few other MAJOR things, what is the "no direct > intervention" rule for? It seems like whenever an Immortal wants to do > something, all the others turn their backs and say "what we can't see we > don't acknowledge". WotI describes three exceptions to this direct action rule, of which the first is relevant to the major interventions you cited. If a Council of five Hierarchs, one from each Sphere, vote in favor of an intervention, that intervention is legal. Transporting a culture to the Hollow World would require such a vote from the Council of the Hollow World. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 11:29:36 EST From: BoBoII@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel In a message dated 99-01-18 10:59:12 EST, you write: << Its not quite correct to apply human attitudes to a completely different race. Ethan >> **Bravo** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 11:46:34 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel In a message dated 1999-01-18 10:59:13 Eastern Standard Time, eand@WPI.EDU writes: > No. Morality is relative. Maybe Shadow Elves can be perfectly well > adjusted Individuals and leave their babies in caves. > > Maybe "mommy" isnt a word that Elves use. I seem to remember that Elves > raise their children communally anyway. > > Its not quite correct to apply human attitudes to a completely different > race. I would strongly take exception to statements about morality being relative - -- the real world implications of such beliefs are rather frightening. In any case, while elves are in many ways different from humans, they still have much in common with them and in the absence of any other factors would probably prize children even more than humans do. But by encouraging the shadow elves to engage in conduct that the shadow elves themselves would perceive as evil -- abandoning their deformed infants and banishing their elderly -- Rafiel has morally corrupted them so that they now indeed have a bias in favor of evil. He does a good job of ensuring that those who are cast away are able to survive and live productive lives -- but the main community is left bereft of the ability to show compassion to the less fortunate among them, as every command of their patron Immortal seems to be directed towards an attitude of complete indifference to the suffering of others. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 10:05:42 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Question? >I am going to compile a netmag for Karameikos, and I know there are a few >people out there that I have gotten stuff related to Karameikos from. Do >those people want me to include your stuff...of course with credit to you. >I.E. The Traladaran Gypses that Jenn has produced. Stuff like that...send me >stuff if you want....Mike Go for it Mike! Jenn Explore Dark Myst Manor! http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 10:15:44 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel Kaviyd wrote: >Rafiel has morally corrupted them >so that they now indeed have a bias in favor of evil. He does a good >job of ensuring that those who are cast away are able to survive and >live productive lives -- but the main community is left bereft of the ability >to show compassion to the less fortunate among them, as every command >of their patron Immortal seems to be directed towards an attitude of >complete indifference to the suffering of others. Very well-spoken; this is the point I was trying to get across (unfortunately, my brain is in hiding due to the start of another semester:-) Jenn Explore Dark Myst Manor! http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 23:09:58 -0500 From: Sean Curtin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards of the Coast are...? EzJ25@aol.com wrote: > WOTC/TSR are going to be re-releasing some of their most popular modules from > the past in the TOMES format...Return to the Keep on the Borderland is the one > I'm waiting for the most, but other ones are coming too. I'm not sure what > the others are, but I think they may include the Against the Giants series as > well. Against the Giants, Keep on the Borderlands, White Plume Mountain and the original Dragonlance series will all be updated, expanded and released as part of the "Silver Anniversary". I'm pretty sure that several of these will be getting novelizations as well -- except for the Dragonlance modules, which were novels first, of course. Sean Curtin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 19:33:35 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elven Clans On Fri, 15 Jan 1999, Jennifer Favia wrote: *snip* Wahey! Jennifer, you do have alot of stuff, dont you? :) One part that caught my interest... > I ELILMATHIA ("THE CHILDREN") <--just became canon imc... > Aldtyrme ("Treeshield") (Mealiden's Sylvan > migration--settled in Vyalia) > Diamarak (Mealiden's Sylvan migration--settled in > Vyalia) > Etheredyl (Mealiden's Sylvan migration--settled in > Vyalia) > Hierydyl (Mealiden's Sylvan migration--settled in > Vyalia) > Laaseluune ("Blueleaf") (Mealiden's Sylvan > migration--settled in Vyalia) > Wyntaarie ("Greenheight") (Mealiden's Sylvan > migration--settled in Vyalia) All of the "elven" names above are of your own device? I like em. :) > Anuwiel (Mealiden's Sylvan migration--became the > Callarii) > Callathien (Mealiden's Sylvan migration--became the > Callarii) > Delaldor (Mealiden's Sylvan migration--became the > Callarii) > Lymandyr (Mealiden's Sylvan migration--became the > Callarii) > Tanduil (Mealiden's Sylvan migration--became the > Callarii) Hav you done anything on these clans? I was once thinking about doing a writeup on the Callarii, but nothing's come out of it yet. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 10:42:56 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elven Clans Havard wrote: >Wahey! Jennifer, you do have alot of stuff, dont you? :) Yeah, I used to have free time (!)...I'm trying to work on some more now. >> I ELILMATHIA ("THE CHILDREN") <--just became canon imc... Wow! Glad you liked it! >All of the "elven" names above are of your own device? I like em. :) Thanks! It's a long story, but in a nutshell: I found (about a year ago) a web page that was an "Elven to English Dictionary", maybe for a Tolkien game. It had a lot of basic words and such. I took those words and pieced them together for some (esp. in "translating" Greenheight, Long Runner, etc.) For the rest I just pieced together sounds I liked. I tried to just "elvenize" the existing clan names where I could. >Hav you done anything on these clans? I was once thinking about doing a >writeup on the Callarii, but nothing's come out of it yet. No, not yet, although I would certainly like to. It's on a back burner...the fortieth back burner on the left, IIRC! ;-)~ Jenn ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 19:46:21 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magic Races On Sun, 17 Jan 1999, Geoff Gander wrote: > Hmm, all this talk about the loss of magic due to the Radience and its > effects on magical races (ie: elves and dragons) has me thinking. Just > what makes elves so magical, and are they really all that magical? > > IMO, and IMC, they aren't magical at all. Sure, they cast spells, they > live a long time, and they have infravision, but so do a lot of other > races, and in fact humans appear to be more adept at magical arts than > elves (given level limits in the RC, but then again, I use Gaz 5 and 13, > and raised elvish level limits to 20, as per those rules). They may have > had some link to the faeries at some distant point in the past, but I > always figured (again, IMO) that for them to cross the bridge from their > immortal faerie kin to the mortal lives they lead today, something must > have happened. To that end, I decided that c. BC 5000 or so (when > the elves lost the protection of the forest spirits and were forced to grow on > their own), they became nonmagical, but still sharing a great reverence > for magic. So, if magic were to fade completely, they would be > devastated, and might use the powers remaining to them to go "somewhere > else", I don't think they would simply die off. All my opinion, and IMC, > of course. "In the outer planar realm of fairy, some of the natives were unhappy about their sad existance of death and reincarnation, trickery, deception and lives of glamour. This happened centuries, maybe millienias after the creation of the fairy and some had grown unhappy with the choices they had made at that time. Ordana, a treant who had just reached immortality, offered to give these fairies a new existance on the planet Mystara on the Prime Plane. Using her immortal powers, the ancient Treant changed the very nature of those who would follow her path. They became the creatures we know today as elves. The elves lived for years under the protection of their kinsmen and other spirits of nature (see Ethengar)." -Unknown Sage > I also don't think I'll be using the magic-draining properties of the > Radiance, either, for my campaign, but that's another story.... :) Well, that may have stopped after Wrath, if that has happened IYC. I think i might be using that writeup that Kavyid posted just before christmas on the effects on the New Radience, myself. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:26:27 PST From: "matthew nash" Subject: [MYSTARA] - RE:Aquas Why stop at merrow being the ancestors of humankind? Maybe a deformed merrow baby that had two tails with strange unwebbed flippers on the end, and could breathe air, left the ocean to explore the world above where she found a mutated centaur with only two pink hairless legs. the two got along great and went in search of others like themselves. in their travels they found a faun with the most pitiful fur you ever saw and two monkey feet. they also found the sorriest minotaur, the poor thing had no snout or horns, but round ears and a triangular nose. they settled down in a valley somewhere and started everyones favorite race the humans. Giggles PS just a joke, i just couldn't conceive of humankind coming from those icky fish people ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 15:30:28 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Elves vs. Magical Beings...... I happen to play Advanced Dungeons and Dragons so I guess the elves have lost their magical nature over the years. Some still are magical in nature and others are not. Or, just consider this, maybe some of them have decided that they didnt want to learn about magic, even though they could. Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 15:39:33 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Question? In a message dated 1/18/99 12:08:20 PM Central Standard Time, valerya@hotmail.com writes: << Go for it Mike! Jenn >> Ok...it's going to take a while. I have no problem coming up with ideas and info, just putting them together in a decent way is the trick, and there is the fact that My current campaign, the PCs are in the year AC1005 or 6....one of the two......and alot of the info may just be generic instead of to a current time. Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 15:54:17 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards of the Coast are...? >Against the Giants, Keep on the Borderlands, White Plume Mountain and >the original Dragonlance series will all be updated, expanded and >released as part of the "Silver Anniversary". I'm pretty sure that >several of these will be getting novelizations as well -- except for >the Dragonlance modules, which were novels first, of course. The Dragonlance modules...? Auuuugh! Those were HORRIBLE adventures! Why couldn't they have reprinted more of the GOOD modules, like the great ones from TSR-UK? :-P (Not really Mystara ... but dagnabit, it had to be said.) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 15:57:24 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elven Clans >Thanks! It's a long story, but in a nutshell: I found (about a year ago) >a web page that was an "Elven to English Dictionary", maybe for a >Tolkien game. It had a lot of basic words and such. I don't suppose you could post the URL for that site? It sounds like required reading, for all DMs! :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:06:47 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Good, the Bad, and mr. Rafiel > Oi, the humanity. :) It's funny that abort debate (or leaving deformed infants literally on a god's mercy) always ends up as a gender-war. :) > No. Morality is relative. Maybe Shadow Elves can be perfectly well > adjusted Individuals and leave their babies in caves. This leads us on the roots of the problem; the alignment-system. It is (in my opinion) dualistic and naive black'n'white -system, that is morally the most questionable part of the whole game. And the most comic was the 'improvement' they did on AD&D -system. Fixing recipe was 'if it doesn't work, let's make it more complicated'. Only advantage of the alignments is that if it is absolutely necessary to relate person's motivations ith a single word or letter, the alignments give a hunch. (BTW, Is Rad really Lawful, if he pursues his own scientifical ambitions by putting an entire world's magical power on stake? Please don't begin to argue on that, too...) System sucks, and the debate is pointless. If I want to neglect cultural, moral and ethical problems, I read some Disney comics. (BTW, who of us is worthy of judging the motivations and goals of a creature with wis+int of 119?) I like the moral paradox of the shadow-elves and their patron, and when the Alfheim is conquered, I will see that the players are really puzzled on who's the good guys. > Ethan - Markus, philosopher P.S. Who's using the Alignment Languages? Hands up, boldly! ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #12 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, January 19 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 013 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves vs. Magical Beings...... [MYSTARA] - Modules Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel Re: [MYSTARA] - United Criers Guild (long) Re: [MYSTARA] - Elven Clans Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel Re: [MYSTARA] - Elven Clans Re: [MYSTARA] - Modules [MYSTARA] - Magical elves RE: [MYSTARA] - Modules Re: [MYSTARA] - Modules Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards of the Coast are...? Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves vs. Magical Beings...... Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel Re: [MYSTARA] - Modules [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment Re: [MYSTARA] - The Good, the Bad, and mr. Rafiel Old Averoigne (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel) Re: [MYSTARA] - RE:Aquas Re: [MYSTARA] - The Good, the Bad, and mr. Rafiel ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:11:44 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves vs. Magical Beings...... AFAIK, infravision in the oD&D game is wholely magical in nature. Despite the name's implication that elves and the like can "see" infrared (i.e. thermographic vision), the rules treat it as exactly equivalent to normal sight; there's no prohibition against using infravision to read normal print, for example, which thermovision can't do. Nothing IRL -- not even a pit viper -- has the kind of in-the-dark vision that's described in the rules for demihuman eyesight. Elves' long lifespan is likewise unprecedented in nature (unless you happen to have been born a Douglas fir!), and is probably facilitated by their inherent magic. Dwarves can use their inherent "craftsmagic" to enchant weapons and armor (Gaz6), while halflings can use Denial in their own lands and are immune to contact-damage from blackfire (Gaz8). Finally, all these oD&D races become extremely resistant to one form of magical assault or another, once they "top out" in levels. Even the humanoid races are "magical", as they descend from Beastmen ... a species distinguished by its magically-"chaotic" genetic makeup. These are just some of the examples from the Gazetteers; mythology, of course, never doubted that elves and dwarves were innately-magical beings. As for the game designers, their standard was probably that if you can't find it on IRL Earth, either alive or out of the fossil record, it's a "magical" being. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:17:57 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: [MYSTARA] - Modules > The Dragonlance modules...? Auuuugh! Those were HORRIBLE adventures! Why > couldn't they have reprinted more of the GOOD modules, like the great ones > from TSR-UK? :-P I am yet to see the good adventure module. Most of the ones I bought (for about $3 apiece) two years back were horrible. Vengeance of Alphaks, Immortal Storm, Twilight Calling, and the whole In Search of Adventure are... unplayable. I am obligated to say that the Veiled Society is one of the best of them, and that's not much said. Ah, the Night's Dark Terror probably isn't awesomely bad, though I have not had time to read it through. So is there such thing as playable module? One with no wandering monster tables and ten-feet-square -maps on everything? - Markus P.S. Yes, I know it's Dungeons & Dragons, but still... ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:38:40 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel At 04.33 18/01/99 -0500, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: >Had >Rafiel only chosen to grant his shamans their spells in the normal fashion, >like any other Immortal, those infants would never have BEEN deformed, in >the first place! He couldn't. Elves (and demihumans in general) cannot receive spells like a standard cleric, they need a relic. Alfheim elves have Trees of Life, SE have soul crystals. >THAT'S what Rafiel has taught "his" >people to believe: that their infants' deformities are a mark of sin, NOT >bad luck; and that their own children DESERVE to be abandoned to their >deaths, for bearing those marks. Their whole culture might LOOK "nice", on >the surface, but there's an incredible prejudice against weakness of ANY >kind, in the CoS shadow elves -- the same one that's turned on their >elderly, too -- and it's mostly Rafiel, who put it there. The wanderers custom is absolutely necessary to avoid overpopulation. Ok, Rafiel could have lead the SE in a better place, where there's no food shortage... and we're back to the point :-) Yes, their SE is full of racism and prejudice of any kind. Same goes for the Glantrian culture, because of their prejudices against clerics and dwarves. So Rad and Rafiel are both evil Immortals. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:03:06 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - United Criers Guild (long) At 16.07 15/01/99 PST, Jerry Hovenanian wrote: >The United Criers Guild Great idea Jeff. I like it, though I still prefer the old pony express. BTW: does someone of you know how much did it take in Old West to the news to get from the end of the railroad (Fort something IIRC) to the pacific coast? And how would it take for a letter to get from Thyatis City to Glantri City travelling (teh letter, not the rider or the horses) 24 hours a day? ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@gdr.net Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:25:01 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elven Clans Sharon wrote: >I don't suppose you could post the URL for that site? It sounds like >required reading, for all DMs! :-) Sure! (Had to hunt for it since it's a new URL:) English to Elvish: http://www.dragons-inn.org/Ifreann/eng_elf.html Elvish to English: http://www.dragons-inn.org/Ifreann/elf_eng.html A good random generator for elvish names is at: http://spitfire.ausys.se/johan/names/ Hope it helps! Jenn PRIVATE TO SHARON: Working on that reply! :-) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 17:46:42 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel >He couldn't. Elves (and demihumans in general) cannot receive spells like a >standard cleric, they need a relic. Alfheim elves have Trees of Life, SE >have soul crystals. And since when has that stopped Kagyar from granting clerical spells to HIS followers? If the dwarves' patron can overcome demihumans' class limits, other Immortals should be capable of the same thing. Or Rafiel could have created a true clan relic for the shadow elves, just as Ilsundal created the ToLs. Plus, there are elven clerics and druids in the Savage Coast setting. They aren't "AD&D" elves, either; Bruce Heard put them there in the VotPA series. >The wanderers custom is absolutely necessary to avoid overpopulation. Removing the elderly -- who aren't having kids, anymore -- is not a plausible way to limit a population's growth. It's like trying to control human overpopulation by killing every man who's had a vasectomy. In any case, as Gaz13 itself points out, it's only in the years since food supplies ceased to be a problem that a significant percentage of SEs lived long enough to become Wanderers. Until then, the impact of elderly elves upon food supplies would have negligable, due to their tiny numbers. The likely justification for the practice, which SE shamans cite, is that having frail, aged elves in a band of foragers would slow them down drastically; certainly, the SEs account for their reliance on trania, the same way. OTOH, eliminating the elderly is a VERY good way to remove anyone who might still remember the "good old days" of surface life, and so foment popular discontent with life in the Refuge. Jenn and I only claim that Rafiel is immoral -- or, perhaps, amoral is the better word; he's heartless rather than malicious -- not that he's blind to the best ways to manipulate the SEs' trusting attitudes. >Ok, Rafiel could have lead the SE in a better place, where there's no food >shortage... and we're back to the point :-) >Yes, their SE is full of racism and prejudice of any kind. Same goes for >the Glantrian culture, because of their prejudices against clerics and >dwarves. >So Rad and Rafiel are both evil Immortals. Ironically, I wouldn't lay blame for the Glantrians' racism on Rad's shoulders. The Flaemish were raging bigots, long before anyone on Mystara'd even heard of the d'Ambrevilles! Not every evil in the world can be traced back to an Immortal's doings, after all. ;-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 18:14:56 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elven Clans >Sure! (Had to hunt for it since it's a new URL:) >English to Elvish: > http://www.dragons-inn.org/Ifreann/eng_elf.html >Elvish to English: > http://www.dragons-inn.org/Ifreann/elf_eng.html >A good random generator for elvish names is at: > http://spitfire.ausys.se/johan/names/ > >Hope it helps! > >Jenn Thanks! I'll go check these out, right now. >PRIVATE TO SHARON: Working on that reply! :-) The VEs and I'll be waiting! ;-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 18:21:01 EST From: Demmero@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Modules In a message dated 1/18/99 4:21:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, mmontola@cc.hut.fi writes: << I am obligated to say that the Veiled Society is one of the best of them, and that's not much said. Ah, the Night's Dark Terror probably isn't awesomely bad, though I have not had time to read it through. >> I agree with your assessment of The Veiled Society, although I confess I didn't really think it was that great at the time I ran it. Night's Dark Terror seems to be a favorite with those on the list, but I found it to be a mixed bag at best. My favorites are The Lost City (a sentimental choice, perhaps, as it was the first D&D adventure I ever ran) and Horror on the Hill. If you can get past some of the randomness of some of the pyramid encounters (especially on the lower levels), there is a lot of detail and a great potential campaign setting in there. Of course, it also has the 10' square maps and tons of Wandering Monster lists....;) Horror on the Hill was less ambitious but nicely presented. Goblin-army- building-up-near-town kind of thing... I also enjoyed a couple of D&D modules by Randy Maxwell that appeared in DUNGEON Adventures magazine: "Of Nests and Nations" (#13) and Pride of the Sky" (#20). My 2 cents worth.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 00:21:53 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves At 10.39 18/01/99 -0500, SteelAngel wrote: >Elves are magical because all elves are fighter-mages (at least in the >OD&D system) I suppose if you play AD&D, they may not be considered >magical, since they don't all perform magic. But some humans too perform magic (wizards, clerics) and some of them are fighter-magic too (the foresters), but I've never heard about someone considering those humans magical beings. Maybe the answer is in my "some" compared to your "all"... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:43:41 +0800 From: MURPHY Jason Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Modules Well I must admit to having many enjoyable games using oD&D modules. But this was probably a product of excellent interpretation by the GM rather than particularly good module design. Possibly the most enjoyable modules were the first 2 of Desert Nomad series. Had an absolute ball with those. While I have had some fun with set modules I would have to say most of our games were played with campaigns created by various GM's. Oh another thing, some of the campaign ideas presented in the gazeteers have been excellent jumping off points. Once again this is probably more due to the creativity of the GM than any particular brilliance on the part of the writers. Jason Murphy Software Engineer MITS Limited EMAIL:  HYPERLINK mailto:jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au PHONE: 08 9481 4066 FAX: 08 9481 4064 -----Original Message----- From: Demmero@aol.com [SMTP:Demmero@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 7:21 AM To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Modules In a message dated 1/18/99 4:21:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, mmontola@cc.hut.fi writes: << I am obligated to say that the Veiled Society is one of the best of them, and that's not much said. Ah, the Night's Dark Terror probably isn't awesomely bad, though I have not had time to read it through. >> I agree with your assessment of The Veiled Society, although I confess I didn't really think it was that great at the time I ran it. Night's Dark Terror seems to be a favorite with those on the list, but I found it to be a mixed bag at best. Horror on the Hill was less ambitious but nicely presented. Goblin-army- building-up-near-town kind of thing... I also enjoyed a couple of D&D modules by Randy Maxwell that appeared in DUNGEON Adventures magazine: "Of Nests and Nations" (#13) and Pride of the Sky" (#20). My 2 cents worth.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 20:15:24 -0500 From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Modules Yeah, I've enjoyed all the modules mentioned so far. Of course some modules need a little extra input from the DM than others...and I would say that all modules need more input (to personalize and expand) than most DMs realize. Often the problems with a particular module can be attributed to the DM... In fact, this reminds me of a saying in theatre, "A bad show is due to the director, a good show is in spite of the director!" Of course in neither case, is this a law or absolutely true. But the point is valid. MURPHY Jason wrote: > Well I must admit to having many enjoyable games using oD&D modules. But > this was probably a product of excellent interpretation by the GM rather > than particularly good module design. Possibly the most enjoyable modules > were the first 2 of Desert Nomad series. Had an absolute ball with those. > While I have had some fun with set modules I would have to say most of our > games were played with campaigns created by various GM's. > Oh another thing, some of the campaign ideas presented in the gazeteers have > been excellent jumping off points. Once again this is probably more due to > the creativity of the GM than any particular brilliance on the part of the > writers. > > Jason Murphy > Software Engineer > MITS Limited > EMAIL:  HYPERLINK mailto:jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au > jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au > PHONE: 08 9481 4066 > FAX: 08 9481 4064 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Demmero@aol.com [SMTP:Demmero@aol.com] > Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 7:21 AM > To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Modules > > In a message dated 1/18/99 4:21:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, > mmontola@cc.hut.fi writes: > > << I am obligated to say that the Veiled Society is one of the best > of them, > and that's not much said. Ah, the Night's Dark Terror probably > isn't > awesomely bad, though I have not had time to read it through. > >> > > I agree with your assessment of The Veiled Society, although I > confess I > didn't really think it was that great at the time I ran it. Night's > Dark > Terror seems to be a favorite with those on the list, but I found it > to be a > mixed bag at best. > > > > Horror on the Hill was less ambitious but nicely presented. > Goblin-army- > building-up-near-town kind of thing... > > I also enjoyed a couple of D&D modules by Randy Maxwell that > appeared in > DUNGEON Adventures magazine: "Of Nests and Nations" (#13) and Pride > of the > Sky" (#20). My 2 cents worth.... > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with > the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:06:39 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel Sharon wrote: >And since when has that stopped Kagyar from granting clerical spells to HIS >followers? If the dwarves' patron can overcome demihumans' class limits, >other Immortals should be capable of the same thing. Or Rafiel could have >created a true clan relic for the shadow elves, just as Ilsundal created >the ToLs. The VotPA series was pretty clear on this. I don't know how many people out there consider it "canon" (I am NOT trying to open that little war again), but it was written in a form that matched the RC (and it had some neat spells in it for D&D, so...). I go by the VotPA series as well (since I don't use AD&D), and thus IMC elves can be paladins, and clerics as well. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:12:15 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves Fabrizio wrote: >But some humans too perform magic (wizards, clerics) and some of them are >fighter-magic too (the foresters), but I've never heard about someone >considering those humans magical beings. >Maybe the answer is in my "some" compared to your "all"... That was basically my point. Also, The HW boxed set introduced the warrior elf - those elves who just "couldn't" learn magic (and can't unless they go to the surface world). Even then, there's nothing saying that all elves of that sort necessarily *want* to learn magic. IMC I extrapolated this to the surface world as well, such that *most* (but not all) elves practice magic - you always get a few (maybe 10-20% of the population) who just can't learn, or who simply don't want to learn (killing beasties with swords is much more enjoyable!). This was the basis for Trylithyl (the NPC shadowelf I posted on the MML a few months back), who lives on the surface with his companions, guarding the villagfe of Armstead. At any rate, this gives elves a little more variety and depth, IMO. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:06:33 -0600 (CST) From: Stephen Dolan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards of the Coast are...? In the second and 3rd quarter TSR plans to publish old D&D it is planned to come out in April if i remember right. It is a very basic book (i think) Check out your local gaming store for more info. On Sat, 16 Jan 1999, Richard Vowles wrote: > I was at my local gaming store today (picked up old copies of M5, HWA3 > and Areana of Thyatis for $NZ5 each (about $US2.50) they had multiple > copies and some SpellJammer modules... for the same price) and the > manage there said that Wizards of the Coast were getting TSR to > re-release old D&D stuff and it was slowly coming thru... > > Anybody heard anything similar? > > Richard > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 01:10:39 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves vs. Magical Beings...... Sometimes you guys read into things too much.......unless you all like heavy discussions all the time *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 01:15:03 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel In a message dated 1/18/99 4:11:01 PM Central Standard Time, brizio@lunet.it writes: << He couldn't. Elves (and demihumans in general) cannot receive spells like a standard cleric, they need a relic. Alfheim elves have Trees of Life, SE have soul crystals. >> Where does it state that demihumans cannot receive spells like a standard cleric? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 01:12:19 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Modules In a message dated 1/18/99 3:21:04 PM Central Standard Time, mmontola@cc.hut.fi writes: << I am yet to see the good adventure module. Most of the ones I bought (for about $3 apiece) two years back were horrible. Vengeance of Alphaks, Immortal Storm, Twilight Calling, and the whole In Search of Adventure are... unplayable. I am obligated to say that the Veiled Society is one of the best of them, and that's not much said. Ah, the Night's Dark Terror probably isn't awesomely bad, though I have not had time to read it through. So is there such thing as playable module? One with no wandering monster tables and ten-feet-square -maps on everything? - Markus >> You are crazy...I have B1-10 and they are awesome.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 01:37:51 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment I dont mean to stir this up again but last time i heard so many different answers. I need to know the AD&D alignment for them because I am going to run a mini-campaign with a few characters and they will be SE. I am just curious. I havent read much about them, but I doubt the fact that they are Lawful in nature, even though they let Rafiel guide them. I would think that they are more along the neutral/? side, from what i have read. Thanks everyone, Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 02:02:48 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Good, the Bad, and mr. Rafiel In a message dated 1999-01-18 16:08:18 Eastern Standard Time, mmontola@cc.hut.fi writes: > This leads us on the roots of the problem; the alignment-system. It is > (in my opinion) dualistic and naive black'n'white -system, that is > morally the most questionable part of the whole game. And the most comic > was the 'improvement' they did on AD&D -system. Fixing recipe was 'if it > doesn't work, let's make it more complicated'. Only advantage of the > alignments is that if it is absolutely necessary to relate person's > motivations ith a single word or letter, the alignments give a hunch. On the other hand, Rolemaster did something interesting with alignment. While they nominally scrapped the system entirely, you may notice that one of their ten attributes -- Self-Discipline -- is basically a numerical quantifier of the Law-Chaos axis, which holds up to scrutiny much better than the Good-Evil axis. The problem with the Good-Evil axis is that it is not immediately clear that an elf who is willing to give his all to kill orcs and preserve his fellow elves is good, while an orc who does the reverse is evil. On the other hand, it is a fairly simple matter to distinguish a highly lawful person (highly self disciplined, internalized code of ethics organized according to a logical pattern that makes it possible for him to deduce how to handle new situations, puts the needs of his people above his own) from a highly chaotic one (totally selfish, amoral, and undisciplined; any "rules" that he lives by are arbitrary and do not form a coherent ethic that can guide him in situations not covered by those rules). Even cases of apparent contradictions make sense under these definitions -- the Alfheim elves would label the shadow elves as chaotic simply because they have no idea what motivates them, but a closer examination of the shadow elves reveals that there is a law and logic to their culture -- it just turns out to be rather perverse by the standards of most surface dwellers. On the other hand, a closer examination of the culture of the goblinoids of the Broken Lands reveals that anyone who labels them as chaotic is indeed correct. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 02:02:47 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Old Averoigne (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel) In a message dated 1999-01-18 17:49:18 Eastern Standard Time, dornhoff@bio.umass.edu writes: > Ironically, I wouldn't lay blame for the Glantrians' racism on Rad's > shoulders. The Flaemish were raging bigots, long before anyone on > Mystara'd even heard of the d'Ambrevilles! Not every evil in the world > can be traced back to an Immortal's doings, after all. ;-) Of course, Rad/Etienne would have heartily agreed with the Flaems about clerics because of the attitudes towards wizards on his old home world. By the way, that recent release of most of C. A. Smith's short stories on the Web gives us a good peek at the world from which the d'Ambrevilles came. First off, it is basically medieval France with magic -- the French names and the many unexplained references that make sense only if we assume that they correspond to dates and cultural concepts from European history confirm that. Its links to the Cthulhu mythos give it an atmosphere that strongly suggests an earlier version of Gothic Earth from _Masque of the Red Death_. Finally, many of these stories give exact dates that seem to be A.D. - -- mostly in the 1200s and 1300s in the few stories I have read so far. Actually, I am surprised that nobody ever developed Laterre as a gaming world in its own right -- since it is so closely based on the real world of several centuries ago, a good reading of history, mythology, and the writings of C.A. Smith should be sufficient to provide plenty of inspiration. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 02:02:49 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - RE:Aquas In a message dated 1999-01-18 15:29:25 Eastern Standard Time, g1ggles@hotmail.com writes: > PS just a joke, i just couldn't conceive of humankind coming from those > icky fish people I am inclined to agree on this point, although to me the merfolk are anything but "icky". My main objection has to do with the Brute-Men, who are more clearly related to humans than the merfolk are and who lived thousands of years before either of the other races was found on Mystara. I think that the reverse is more likely -- the merfolk and tritons are descended from humans who somehow managed to return to the sea in the same way that the ancestors of whales and dolphins managed to, but with magic speeding up the process and making it more complete. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:33:40 +1300 From: Richard Vowles Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Good, the Bad, and mr. Rafiel Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: > On the other hand, Rolemaster did something interesting with alignment. Didn't they rename that game ChartMaster? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #13 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, January 19 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 014 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Good, the Bad, and mr. Rafiel Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves vs. Magical Beings...... Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel [MYSTARA] - Rolemaster conquering MML :) Re: Old Averoigne (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel) Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment [MYSTARA] - Dawn of the Fabricate [MYSTARA] - Rant on Modules Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves Re: [MYSTARA] - RE:Aquas Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel Re: [MYSTARA] - Dawn of the Grand Council Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Rulers ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 03:44:06 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Good, the Bad, and mr. Rafiel In a message dated 1/19/99 2:43:25 AM Central Standard Time, rvowles@sew.co.nz writes: << Didn't they rename that game ChartMaster? >> Nope.....it's RulesMaster dude......lol.....used to play it *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:14:52 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves vs. Magical Beings...... On Tue, 19 Jan 1999 Nurvel@aol.com wrote: > Sometimes you guys read into things too much.......unless you all like heavy > discussions all the time They do. :) I think thats cool! Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:14:10 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment On Tue, 19 Jan 1999 Nurvel@aol.com wrote: > I dont mean to stir this up again but last time i heard so many different > answers. I need to know the AD&D alignment for them because I am going to run > a mini-campaign with a few characters and they will be SE. I am just curious. > I havent read much about them, but I doubt the fact that they are Lawful in > nature, even though they let Rafiel guide them. I would think that they are > more along the neutral/? side, from what i have read. Thanks everyone, Mike As with humans, they can chose to be of any alignment. If you want to make a generalization, True Neutral or Chaotic Good might be appropriate, although generalizations aren't really that useful. If any of your SE PCs want to be Lawful Good, let them. :) Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 03:26:22 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: > > As with humans, they can chose to be of any alignment. If you want to make > a generalization, True Neutral or Chaotic Good might be appropriate, > although generalizations aren't really that useful. If any of your SE PCs > want to be Lawful Good, let them. :) I missed the original of this but TSR has the shadow elf stats for AD&D on their site (AD&D downloads section) that may give a general alignment. I dunno about chaotic good, maybe neutral good (though I would guess lawful neutral myself :) - -- Timothy R. Haney galwylin@airnet.net The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:59:25 +0100 (MET) From: Agathokles Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment On Tue, 19 Jan 1999, Tim wrote: > Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: > > > > As with humans, they can chose to be of any alignment. If you want to make > > a generalization, True Neutral or Chaotic Good might be appropriate, > > although generalizations aren't really that useful. If any of your SE PCs > > want to be Lawful Good, let them. :) > > I missed the original of this but TSR has the shadow elf stats for AD&D > on their site (AD&D downloads section) that may give a general > alignment. I dunno about chaotic good, maybe neutral good (though I > would guess lawful neutral myself :) > I agree with your guess, Tim and, if my memory doesn't fail me, also the AD&D stats for SE say so. However, generalizations fill two roles: the stereotype of a race or nation, as viewed by neighboors, but also from th insiders (the SE probably see themselves as lawful, while the Alfheimer may not agree with this). And the general behaviour of the government of a nation (in the SE case, law is strongly supported, while the xenophobic attitude does suggest a non good tendency). Giampaolo Agosta *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 11:34:34 CET From: "Herve Musseau" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel From: Sharon Dornhoff <> That is probably true, but then would probably have become as lost and desperate and pathetic as the GF are. Instead they built up into a strong nation, with a lot of achievements, a culture, etc. Objectively, which culture do you prefer (as in "in which would you prefer to live?")? <> Modern morals. It is not false of course, or wrong, but it's so heavily tainted with your own, modern view on things. Throughout RW history, and still today, people have done things, in the name of God or not, that you would judge amoral or even evil by our modern standards. Letting babies die at birth still is done today, and often not even for religious reasons or because they're deformed, but because they're girls (China). Is China evil? Abortion is legal and practiced in several countries. Are those countries evil? Death penalty is legal and carried out in several country. Are the States (eg) an evil country? I'll be even more politically incorrect, though I'm not saying this to offend anyone. People are willing to die for their God, or to send other people to death, sure that they will be awarded a place in paradise for it; this is especially true among Muslims nowadays but is true in all religions. Is Allah evil? Is the deluge fair and good, is sacrificing one's son? So if you believe in one religion based on the Bible, are you actually worshipping an evil God? <> Actually for the elderly, it's probably not Rafiel's doing, but a legacy of old elven ways. I remember a discussion on that matter some time ago, but I don't remember if that was on this board or another or in private discussion about SE, but it was established that this practice is also present among many other elven cultures, and thus is probably a very old tradition maybe going back to the old days of post-Blackmoor when elves like others had a hard time surviving, and thus had to leave the weak (including the old) out so the others could survive. Some have abandoned this practice now that they no longer need it, but others have kept it whether or not resources are still scarce. Rafiel just perpetuated that tradition at a time the SE had scarce resources. <> It's wrong, it's horrible, but people are actually capable of that and even worse out or faith, or even for less pious reasons. The SE probably believe that "Rafiel will guide them" to his paradise, in death, and thus they they actually will have a better "life" than if they lived among their kind with those deformities. Maybe, who knows, the SE have developed a whole belief around this, and think that the deformed babies are favorites as much and maybe more than those with purple marks, because Rafiel calls them to his side immediately so they become his aides on his home plane (an equivalent of cherubins, maybe?). From: SteelAngel <> Yep. And you would be surprised by the morals of that time. Remember, until very recently, many mothers would not raise their children themselves, but give them to a nurse, and then send them to an intern school, and when they came back that would be to get wed, so that the mother would barely even know her children. <> Okay that's more politically correct than my examples, because it's not RW. In fact the two complete each other quite well... From: Kaviyd@aol.com <> Well, fiction is often a reflection on ourselves. It is especially true of scifi, but fantasy certainly too. Even TV or a movie. <> Certainly so, yes. <> I disagree with you here. This doesn't necessarily give them a bias toward evilness. Actually, for most SE, it may be a very important experience. There is a saying that you learn from your mistakes. You also learn from harsh things that happen to you. Maybe actually those SE that have had to abandon a deformed baby understand better the suffering of others. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 16:57:26 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: [MYSTARA] - Rolemaster conquering MML :) > Nope.....it's RulesMaster dude......lol.....used to play it The DM is a RuleMaster, the players are RuleMonsters. - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 17:03:16 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: Re: Old Averoigne (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel) > Of course, Rad/Etienne would have heartily agreed with the Flaems > about clerics because of the attitudes towards wizards on his old > home world. According to Mark of Amber, Etienne (not Rad back then) opposed the ban of clergy, because it reminded him the inquisition of Averoigne. But the Council of Lords (back then called Council of Lords) passed the decision anyway. > Actually, I am surprised that nobody ever developed Laterre as a BTW, am I in error, or doesn't "Laterre" mean Earth in French, though in a little ingrammatical form of writing? - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 17:14:31 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment > I missed the original of this but TSR has the shadow elf stats for AD&D > on their site (AD&D downloads section) that may give a general > alignment. I dunno about chaotic good, maybe neutral good (though I > would guess lawful neutral myself :) I feel I'm pressing the subject, but let's look at the AD&D alignment system carefully. Lawful -- Person who supports local laws and order Chaotic -- Person who opposes local laws and order Neutral -- Person in between So, the Shadow Elves must be judged by their own laws and culture; and those following Rafiel's orders on infants and wanderers should be Lawful. (In AD&D; OD&D:s Lawful/Chaotic is more like Good/Evil in AD&D) Then, the latter part. Good -- Person who works for greater good with the cost of self-sacrifice Evil -- Person who works for personal good by sacrificing greater good Neutral -- Person in between In case of SE:s, laws are the laws of Rafiel, and the greater good is the greater good of everyone. But as the culture is xenophobic and in that way the SE:s are misled, they don't consider the good of Alfheimers (who are 'bad' from their perspective) as important as the good of their own oppressed, exile people. Therefore, the best alignment for an ideal shaman of Rafiel is Lawful Good. That's the way Rafiel likes it. Usually the SE:s are probably Lawful Neutral (the religious system enforces the moral backbone of SE:s, so they strongly obey Rafiel's laws, and the King chosen by Rafiel himself). And after that come Lawful Good and Lawful Evil. If you must use the alignment system. - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 17:31:57 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: [MYSTARA] - Dawn of the Fabricate > << Actually, D&D does have a "Fabricate" spell -- it is described in > the _Dawn of the Emperors_ boxed set. >> > Ah really? Would you be so kind as to send it? Long one... Fabricate Level 5 Range 10' Permanent Creates goods, foods This is a catch-all spell which creates materials useful to adventurers and others. Food, drink and clothing, and other soft goods may be so created.The spell may create food and drink, or cloth and leather, or softwoods and porcelain; hardwoods, stones, metals etc. may not be created. As a rule of thumb, each casting of the spell will create one person's worth of the material in question. When itäs used to make food and drink, it creates one day's rations. Therefore, one application of the spell could create: One day's rations, including water and food (iron rations) , but not the containers for them; or A good meal for up to three people (this equals three meals for one person), including main course, side dishes, wines, etc.; or Table settings (wood and porcelain) for up to three people; or Like the clothwall spell, this spell produces materials that cannot be dispelled. It helps if this spell is used with some sort of general skill. If the caster does not know how to cook, he can still fabricate food - but it's going to be plain. Since the caster can stretch out the casting time for uup to one turn, if he has an expert or craftsman at handm he can get that persons advice, and do a good job with fabrication., This spell is not as powerful as the clerical create water or create food, but it is more versatile. Typos included in price... :) > Arminath - Markus P.S. The very same book includes the paragraph saying The Grand Council is the other ruling body. Every user of magic who achieves the Ultimate Mastery (36th level) can be on Council -- though not every one is, because the number of Counselors is limited to 1000. Gimme a break! ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 17:50:25 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: [MYSTARA] - Rant on Modules This is for everyone commenting my comment on the modules. > Well I must admit to having many enjoyable games using oD&D modules. But > this was probably a product of excellent interpretation by the GM rather > than particularly good module design. Possibly the most enjoyable modules Well, here I have to agree -- _PLAYING_ a well-mastered module can be great. Been there, done that. But as GM's tools, these are... boring. Somehow. Now as I managed to borrow the Mark of Amber, I must say that there is some potential. The Averoignian murder mystery is _JUST_ the way I like them; exaggerated, Agatha Christie-ish, but still having the element of mystery and exploration of the subconscious. It has many similar points to a coupla the mysteries I have created, and I love the wide scale of characters. Of course I will not use the multimedia-CD when I eventually master it, but the CD fleshes the characters nicely, for GM to interpret when playing them. That's GOOD. > Oh another thing, some of the campaign ideas presented in the gazeteers have > been excellent jumping off points. Once again this is probably more due to > the creativity of the GM than any particular brilliance on the part of the > writers. Those I like. They leave working-ground for GM just nicely. And especially in the Principalities the section where Raknaar relates his adventures. They give ideas. Even for a mass dragon slaughter. > I agree with your assessment of The Veiled Society, although I It could be better. Now it's linear city-adventure. But by making it (intellectually) _REALLY_ difficult and unlinear, and by introducing a couple of NPCs in addition, the paranoid players can create magnificent conspirational theories and be really puzzled. And when the resolution finally comes, the relief is great. And then it's the time for the GM to prove the players that they were wrong, and the Society just goes on even though the Radu's are executed or imprisoned, and make them even more dizzy. And _THEN_ when the PC:s investigate even more, to get them entirely elsewhere. Problem is that everything is too simple in the modules; only fighting is too difficult. Revealing a MAJOR Karameikan conspiracy should be a series of adventures all about treachery, deceit, lies and the single red line of truth, that leads to eventual victory. Adventure with only topic being a mysterious castle in the Broken Lands, positively overflowing with interplanar archboogies is not what I search. (Besides, the modules tend to have three kinds of people: The Good, the Bad and sometimes even the Neutral. Dualism is boring). - Markus P.S. Please do not get provoked though my style might have been little flame-baiting. I tend to get too enthusiastic on this, my favourite subject of debate. ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 11:52:03 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves On Tue, 19 Jan 1999, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > fighter-magic too (the foresters), but I've never heard about someone > considering those humans magical beings. > Maybe the answer is in my "some" compared to your "all"... Not quite. In WoTI, it specifically states that magical races - Elves, dragons, etc.. are weakened. Therefore Elves are magical, irregardless of what magics they use. Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:09:40 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - RE:Aquas >I am inclined to agree on this point, although to me the merfolk are anything >but "icky". My main objection has to do with the Brute-Men, who are more >clearly related to humans than the merfolk are and who lived thousands of >years before either of the other races was found on Mystara. But do we actually KNOW when the merrow first appeared? The HW boxed set doesn't say anything about the marine races -- probably because "Sea Peoples" was published later, so nothing was yet known about them -- or when they first emerged on Mystara. And Protius/"The Old Whatsis In The Sea" is a VERY old Immortal, so could have created the merfolk early enough for them to be the ancestors of both Brute-Men and Cro-Magnon (=Neathar/Oltec/Tanagoro) humans. >I think that the reverse is more likely -- the merfolk and tritons are >descended >from humans who somehow managed to return to the sea in the same way >that the ancestors of whales and dolphins managed to, but with magic >speeding up the process and making it more complete. Granted, that's more parsimonious ... but that's also what every OTHER game-world I know of seems to assume: that humans are the "norm" which everyone else evolved from or was based upon by the Powers That Be. Why couldn't Mystara -- which already has such novel origins for the dwarves, deep elves, and humanoids -- have gone the other way? :-) Bear with me, here. I'm not trying to re-write anyone else's campaigns; I'm just trying to be different from what's gone before, in fantasy literature. Sharon "A world where apes evolved from men!" - Tom Servo *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:23:31 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel Let's put it this way, Herve: If Rafiel doesn't think the shadow elves would loathe him for encouraging a practice that causes their infants to be deformed ... then WHY does he tell them the deformities are a mark of "spiritual weakness", or sins from past lives, rather than a byproduct of the soul crystals HE taught them to use? If he has nothing to hide, why does he find it so necessary to LIE to the shadow elves about everything ... even to his own shamans? And even societies which DID have the custom of abandoning their elderly, like the Algonquin, WEREN'T at all happy or proud of themselves, when they resorted to doing so! It's something which even their own folklore depicts as an act of bitter desperation that's to be mourned, NOT a "noble deed" to be celebrated ... which is the exact opposite of how Rafiel depicts the shadow elven expulsion of their aged. The same applies, for abandonment of daughters in Asia: so long as there's food enough for everyone, even female babies are provided for. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:34:36 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dawn of the Grand Council >P.S. The very same book includes the paragraph saying > > The Grand Council is the other ruling body. Every user of magic > who achieves the Ultimate Mastery (36th level) can be on Council > -- though not every one is, because the number of Counselors is > limited to 1000. > > Gimme a break! My solution for this improbable statement -- which I mentioned on the MMB, a while back -- is that when Alphatians first came to Mystara, there actually WERE more than 1000 36th-level mages to choose from: they'd had a whole planet's worth of Air-Wizards to draw upon, after all! Indeed, virtually ALL of the survivors of Old Alphatia's destruction must've been wizards... else, they couldn't have reached the Gates by which the Alphatians and Flaem escaped their dying planet, in time. However, in the generations since Landfall -- generations in which the Alphatians have seen the incidence of magical skill among their children decline markedly, from what it was on their homeworld -- the Grand Council has never actually had all 1000 seats filled by "Ultimate Masters"; nothing in the cited paragraph explicitly forbids a mage who's less than 36th level from joining the GC, provided there's a vacancy. At least, that's how I reconciled it IMC. :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:58:23 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment >I dont mean to stir this up again but last time i heard so many different >answers. I need to know the AD&D alignment for them because I am going to run >a mini-campaign with a few characters and they will be SE. I am just curious. >I havent read much about them, but I doubt the fact that they are Lawful in >nature, even though they let Rafiel guide them. I would think that they are >more along the neutral/? side, from what i have read. Thanks everyone, Mike When running AD&D, I tend to see Lawful characters as accepting and endorsing the customs and standards of their societies, while Chaotics tend to go against them. The Good/Evil aspect of alignment determines for which purposes -- the good of others, or personal gain -- someone will disagree with these customs: a Lawful Good person will realize that some laws are injust, and try to get those laws changed for the better, by whatever legitimate/legal means are available; a Lawful Evil person will respect the law only so far as it is enforced, and will play "dirty lawyer" to use laws for personal gain at others' expense. The Chaotic Good character would break an unjust law on purpose, and fight those who established it; a Chaotic Evil person will break laws freely if it's to his or her advantage, living by the belief that if you're not caught, it's not "wrong". This leaves Lawful Neutrals as those who always toe the line, be it for good or ill, and Chaotic Neutrals as those who rebel for rebellion's sake, not needing an ulterior motive. Like others, I'd place the majority of shadow elves in the Lawful Neutral category. They're EXTREMELY concerned about living up to the standards of their society -- which, in their case, is identical to Rafiel's standards - -- and do so because they believe it'll benefit their people, not just themselves as individuals. But as moral Neutrals, they seldom question whether those standards are really justifiable or not. Were they Lawful Good, they'd surely have ceased expelling their elderly (who aren't ALL necesssarily "weak", which is what the Verses actually object to; I doubt if anyone would call Kanafasti or Porphyriel "weak", even though they're both over 700!) once they no longer posed a hinderence to the elves' survival. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 13:09:47 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Rulers >These are the rulers of Alphatia since Landfall, *as used in my >campaign*. I have tried where possible (I do not have all the >literature) to include highlights of the Emperors'/Empresses' rule, >mostly from the timeline in DotE. Here's a couple more historical tidbits for your "highlights" list, Jenn. :-) >1330 Volospin II. Son of Volospin I. Birth name Xerdon. The first outbreak of lycanthropy in Alphatia, and the establishment of the Alphatian Centers for Disease Control, would've happened during Volospin II's reign. PC4 doesn't say precisely when the epidemic was brought under control, in Alphatia itself. This is also when the Flaem first appeared in Glantri, and began plotting against their ancient Air-Wizard rivals ... although the Alphatians probably didn't pay them much attention, at the time. >1428 Volospin III. Son of Volospin II. Birth name Zumrulim. If you acknowledge events in the "Dragonlord" series, this is the Emperor who reigned during Alphatia's conflicts with the dragons of Windrush, and with the Overlord's gemstone dragons. (The fact that many Alphatian wizards could've died or been infected in the lycanthropy outbreaks might explain why Alphatia seems so weak, in those novels.) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #14 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, January 19 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 015 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Thelvin Fox-eyes [MYSTARA] - Maps from BC 2000 Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves vs. Magical Beings...... Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel RE: [MYSTARA] - Dawn of the Grand Council Re: [MYSTARA] - Thelvin Fox-eyes Re: [MYSTARA] - Thelvin Fox-eyes Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves vs. Magical Beings...... Re: [MYSTARA] - Dawn of the Grand Council Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves vs. Magical Beings...... Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves vs. Magical Beings...... Re: [MYSTARA] - Thelvin Fox-eyes Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel Re: [MYSTARA] - Thelvin Fox-eyes Re: [MYSTARA] - Dawn of the Grand Council Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquas Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves vs. Magical Beings...... Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 13:23:34 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Thelvin Fox-eyes Someone mentioned the Dragonlord series. I read in one of my books that the Great One's home plane had layers of colors where the souls of the dragons waited until they were reborn on the Prime Plane. The same reference says that there are bands of color that no dragons have been seen of. Does anyone have the stats for the Small, Large and Huge Silver Dragon type that Thelvin is? And are there any other references to "unknown" dragon breeds? Arminath *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 13:29:12 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: [MYSTARA] - Maps from BC 2000 Has anyone out there in Mystara-land come up with a map of what the Known World might've looked like, at the dawn of the Nithian era? Specifically I'm looking for something that's more recent than Blackmoor, but from before the disaster of 1700 BC rendered the Broken Lands and Ethengar Steppes so inhospitable, the Atruaghin Plateau was raised and dried up the Asanda region, and the islands of Ierendi and Minrothad broke away from the coastline. If anybody's got a map like that on their website, or could snail-mail me a copy, please let me know. If not ... well, let me know that too, so I can start drawing one up (with help from anyone who's interested, of course! ;-) ). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 17:03:16 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves vs. Magical Beings...... At 16.11 18/01/99 -0500, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: >AFAIK, infravision in the oD&D game is wholely magical in nature. Despite >the name's implication that elves and the like can "see" infrared (i.e. >thermographic vision), the rules treat it as exactly equivalent to normal >sight; there's no prohibition against using infravision to read normal >print, for example, which thermovision can't do. No wait. I don't think they can use infravision to read normal print in the dark, unless that was printed with fresh blood :-) I may be wrong, but IMC I wouldn't allow the PCs to use infravision for reading in the dark. > Nothing IRL -- not even a >pit viper -- has the kind of in-the-dark vision that's described in the >rules for demihuman eyesight. True, but this is a fantasy world. >Elves' long lifespan is likewise unprecedented in nature (unless you happen >to have been born a Douglas fir!), and is probably facilitated by their >inherent magic. Dwarves can use their inherent "craftsmagic" to enchant >weapons and armor (Gaz6), while halflings can use Denial in their own lands >and are immune to contact-damage from blackfire (Gaz8). Finally, all these >oD&D races become extremely resistant to one form of magical assault or >another, once they "top out" in levels. Even the humanoid races are >"magical", as they descend from Beastmen ... a species distinguished by its >magically-"chaotic" genetic makeup. Then even dwarves, halflings and 'noids should have suffered the effects of the week without magic. Not to mention dragons, whose lifespans are umprecedented in fantasy too and whose breath is certainly of magical nature. And if I was a dragon I would have certainly punished those stupid humans for causing the Week of no Magic. Unfortunately nothing like this happened, at least according to TSR. Side thought. The effects of the Week of no Magic probably killed some magical being. Who got XP for those killings? Rad? Ixion? The whole Fellowship of the Star? The PCs? >These are just some of the examples from the Gazetteers; mythology, of >course, never doubted that elves and dwarves were innately-magical beings. >As for the game designers, their standard was probably that if you can't >find it on IRL Earth, either alive or out of the fossil record, it's a >"magical" being. So, 90% of Mystarans monsters are magical beings (from Giants Skunks to Krakens) and so they suffered heavily during the Week without Magic. I wonder why they didn't decide to kill off the human race from Mystara. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@gdr.net Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 17:18:49 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel At 17.46 18/01/99 -0500, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: >And since when has that stopped Kagyar from granting clerical spells to HIS >followers? If the dwarves' patron can overcome demihumans' class limits, >other Immortals should be capable of the same thing. Or Rafiel could have >created a true clan relic for the shadow elves, just as Ilsundal created >the ToLs. > >Plus, there are elven clerics and druids in the Savage Coast setting. They >aren't "AD&D" elves, either; Bruce Heard put them there in the VotPA series. Point taken. I forgot about Bruce's elves. >Removing the elderly -- who aren't having kids, anymore -- is not a >plausible way to limit a population's growth. It's like trying to control >human overpopulation by killing every man who's had a vasectomy. But child birth is not a problem, because SE birth rate is barely enough to avoid extinction. We've already discussed about this in the past, right? If you remove the elderly the you make sure that the average lifespan does not rise. >In any case, as Gaz13 itself points out, it's only in the years since food >supplies ceased to be a problem I don't think food supplies ever ceased to be a problem for SE until they conquered Alfheim. > that a significant percentage of SEs lived >long enough to become Wanderers. Until then, the impact of elderly elves >upon food supplies would have negligable, due to their tiny numbers. The >likely justification for the practice, which SE shamans cite, is that >having frail, aged elves in a band of foragers would slow them down >drastically; certainly, the SEs account for their reliance on trania, the >same way. > >OTOH, eliminating the elderly is a VERY good way to remove anyone who might >still remember the "good old days" of surface life, and so foment popular >discontent with life in the Refuge. I'm not to familiar with HW races, but I seem to remember that the wanderers practice is used also among the Gentle Folk (IIRC). This lead me to think that this is an old custom, dating back from Evergrun era. Surface elves have then forgotten this custom because it became unnecessary, while SE and those in the HW still have this, apparently evil, practice. >Jenn and I only claim that Rafiel is >immoral -- or, perhaps, amoral is the better word; he's heartless rather >than malicious -- not that he's blind to the best ways to manipulate the >SEs' trusting attitudes. Heartless and amoral yes. Here I agree with you, though I don't consider that being "heartless and amoral" is something bad, but that's just me. >Ironically, I wouldn't lay blame for the Glantrians' racism on Rad's >shoulders. The Flaemish were raging bigots, long before anyone on >Mystara'd even heard of the d'Ambrevilles! Not every evil in the world >can be traced back to an Immortal's doings, after all. ;-) Flaemish were bigots, their new patron (Rad) does nothing to change this (or better he makes the Flaemish bigotry law) but he is not to be blamed. Shadow Elves gave birth to deformed babies and had the habit of chasing away the elderly people, Rafiel does nothing to change it (even if he can), and he's marked as evil. Funny :-) - --------------- Fabrizio "Steelheart" Paoli brizio@gdr.net *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 11:34:05 -0800 From: "Harvey, Michael" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Dawn of the Grand Council > >P.S. The very same book includes the paragraph saying > > > > The Grand Council is the other ruling body. Every user of magic > > who achieves the Ultimate Mastery (36th level) can be on Council > > -- though not every one is, because the number of Counselors is > > limited to 1000. > > > > Gimme a break! > > My solution for this improbable statement -- which I > mentioned on the MMB, > a while back -- is that when Alphatians first came to Mystara, there > actually WERE more than 1000 36th-level mages to choose from: Another way to rationalize it is that many of the 1000 wizards are unaccounted for... since a wizard may live a long time, their seat does not become available until some proof of their death is available. Many of the wizards have died, perished, or otherwise disappeared but there is no solid proof, so their seat is held just in case they show up again someday. If this were true, then the Grand Council would probably hire adventurers from time to time to discern the fate of some long-missing wizard, to find out whether his seat should be made available. This could make a fascinating scenario for high level characters to go traveling the planes, following vague clues to find some wizard. Some of the wizards could of course have become liches or other monsters. Wizards who ascend to immortality might retain an honorary seat on the council...? Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 20:44:25 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thelvin Fox-eyes On Tue, 19 Jan 1999 Arminath@aol.com wrote: > Someone mentioned the Dragonlord series. I read in one of my books that the > Great One's home plane had layers of colors where the souls of the dragons > waited until they were reborn on the Prime Plane. The same reference says > that there are bands of color that no dragons have been seen of. Does anyone > have the stats for the Small, Large and Huge Silver Dragon type that Thelvin > is? And are there any other references to "unknown" dragon breeds? Bruce Heard wrote a couple of articles on Dragons of Mystara. One of these articles mentioned that Dragons can be reincarnated. Some are reincarnated into new breeds of dragons. I think some were mentioned, though i dont recall which. No statistics were given though. Mystaros epic timeline mentiones there being all sorts of metallic dragons. I havent seen him doing a writeup either, though. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 15:04:59 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thelvin Fox-eyes >Someone mentioned the Dragonlord series. I read in one of my books that the >Great One's home plane had layers of colors where the souls of the dragons >waited until they were reborn on the Prime Plane. The same reference says >that there are bands of color that no dragons have been seen of. Does anyone >have the stats for the Small, Large and Huge Silver Dragon type that Thelvin >is? And are there any other references to "unknown" dragon breeds? > >Arminath Thelvyn was a gold dragon, not a silver. There aren't any silver dragons on Mystara -- at least, not unless the Great One has started creating some in secret -- just the standard 5 "chromatics" and the golds, plus gemstone versions of these six. If you use the WotI boxed set, it has an optional rule which allows Immortals to have "superior" children by mortals; this rule would give Thelvyn somewhat better ability scores, in his human form (and perhaps an extra HD or two as the Dragonking), than most gold dragons. Small, Large, and Huge dragons are size-categories from the oD&D monster lists. To convert them to AD&D, you should treat the "standard" MM dragons as Smalls; increase their size, attack and BW damage, and HD by 50%, for Large dragons; or double them, for Huge ones. Upgrade Large dragons' spell use and magic resistance by two age-categories, or Huge dragons', by four. When this goes off the MM chart for a given dragon-type, upgrade them through each additional "step" of age, by adding the same number of spells as the dragon gained by going from "Wyrm" to "Great Wyrm". Dragon magic resistance tops out at 90%. (These are my own "fixes", not anything "official", BTW.) Now, THOSE are tough dragons! Maybe Alphatia wasn't as "inpluasibly weak" in those novels as readers seem to think, if THAT'S how tough the dragons were, who kicked their butts.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 15:14:01 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment In a message dated 1/19/99 3:21:20 AM Central Standard Time, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no writes: << As with humans, they can chose to be of any alignment. If you want to make a generalization, True Neutral or Chaotic Good might be appropriate, although generalizations aren't really that useful. If any of your SE PCs want to be Lawful Good, let them. :) Håvard >> Thats not what i meant by it. I know PCs can be of any alignment. I need to know the general alignment of them otherwise I won't be able to roleplay them as a people correctly. Thanks Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 15:16:30 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment In a message dated 1/19/99 3:29:43 AM Central Standard Time, galwylin@airnet.net writes: << I missed the original of this but TSR has the shadow elf stats for AD&D on their site (AD&D downloads section) that may give a general alignment. I dunno about chaotic good, maybe neutral good (though I would guess lawful neutral myself :) >> I couldnt find a listing for alignment on that information that was on TSR's website. I am still leaning towards the neutrals because it seems like they are unconcerned with the others, as long as the dont interfere with the SE of course. Then there's a problem. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 15:30:36 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment In a message dated 1/19/99 9:25:18 AM Central Standard Time, mmontola@cc.hut.fi writes: << I feel I'm pressing the subject, but let's look at the AD&D alignment system carefully. Lawful -- Person who supports local laws and order Chaotic -- Person who opposes local laws and order Neutral -- Person in between So, the Shadow Elves must be judged by their own laws and culture; and those following Rafiel's orders on infants and wanderers should be Lawful. (In AD&D; OD&D:s Lawful/Chaotic is more like Good/Evil in AD&D) Then, the latter part. Good -- Person who works for greater good with the cost of self-sacrifice Evil -- Person who works for personal good by sacrificing greater good Neutral -- Person in between In case of SE:s, laws are the laws of Rafiel, and the greater good is the greater good of everyone. But as the culture is xenophobic and in that way the SE:s are misled, they don't consider the good of Alfheimers (who are 'bad' from their perspective) as important as the good of their own oppressed, exile people. Therefore, the best alignment for an ideal shaman of Rafiel is Lawful Good. That's the way Rafiel likes it. Usually the SE:s are probably Lawful Neutral (the religious system enforces the moral backbone of SE:s, so they strongly obey Rafiel's laws, and the King chosen by Rafiel himself). And after that come Lawful Good and Lawful Evil. If you must use the alignment system. - Markus >> Good idea markus, but I dont see them being Lawful Good. Why would they be lead by someone that is Chaotic Neutral in alignment. The Princess is of that alignment, but still you made some good points. King Telemon is Lawful Neutral, so I think I am goiing to lean towards LN....Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 15:35:34 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves vs. Magical Beings...... >> Nothing IRL -- not even a >>pit viper -- has the kind of in-the-dark vision that's described in the >>rules for demihuman eyesight. > >True, but this is a fantasy world. Which was my point: Infravision, as described in the rules, would ONLY work in a fantasy world; ergo, it and every race that has it must be at least slightly magical. >Then even dwarves, halflings and 'noids should have suffered the effects of >the week without magic. The superior constitutions, and saving throws vs magic, of the former two races probably helped them endure the effects better than the elves did ... although they might've gotten some nasty headaches. ;-) Kagyar certainly could have given his dwarves a partial resistance to the ABSENCE of magic, as well as to radiation and spells; we don't know how the halfling race came into existence, and WotI doesn't address the Shires at all, so I can't really say much about how the hin might or might not have coped with the Week Without Magic. Humanoids' hardiness and stoicism probably let them keep active, despite any discomfort the dearth of ambient magic might have caused ... although the sudden failure of their regenerative powers might've put an unexpected dent in Mystara's troll population! ("Ragnor? Wha's wrong witchoo? Hey Ragnor, quit sleepin' and put your head back on; 's MY turn to be the ball!" ;-D) In any case, the tables in Gaz3 and G-KoM describe a "magicless" week cropping up, as the Nucleus strips away Mystara's magical energies, some time before the various fantasy races all disappear completely. Presumably this means they'd have hung on -- albeit without their powers! -- for a while longer, before going entirely extinct as the magic-drain became unbearable. >Not to mention dragons, whose lifespans are >umprecedented in fantasy too and whose breath is certainly of magical nature. >And if I was a dragon I would have certainly punished those stupid humans >for causing the Week of no Magic. Unfortunately nothing like this happened, >at least according to TSR.< Ah, yet another oversight, like the whole Grand Council disappearing after they bombarded Glantri City! Hmmmm... maybe those two oversights could resolve one another? Did the Nation of Dragons mistakenly blame the Alphatians for "stealing" the magic (it was THEIR continent that sunk, so maybe that's where the malfunctioning artifact that did it was located....), and wipe out any GC members who remained in the outer world, in retaliation...? >Side thought. The effects of the Week of no Magic probably killed some >magical being. Who got XP for those killings? Rad? Ixion? The whole >Fellowship of the Star? The PCs? Now that's a sick question! Next you'll be saying Atziann became high-enough level to seek Immortality, because he'd sent those elves to poke around the Broken Lands device, and thus got experience points for wiping out Loarke's Great Horde! ;-) >So, 90% of Mystarans monsters are magical beings (from Giants Skunks to >Krakens) and so they suffered heavily during the Week without Magic. I >wonder why they didn't decide to kill off the human race from Mystara. Remember, Gaz3 was written in the early '80s. Virtually every fantasy novel and setting of the time was still based, more or less overtly, on Tolkien; and the paradigm that magic was fated to "wither away" and leave only humans in the world was so pervasive, everyone in the gaming industry was influenced by it. Go back and re-read Khoronus's remarks in Gaz3, about how the world of magic would -- and should -- inevitably give way to the world of "logic". That's hardly something any Immortal -- even one who'd started out as a loony Blackmoorian scientist! -- would say, in the Mystara we all know today. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 15:37:19 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dawn of the Grand Council I dont mean to ask a lame ?, but what is the MMB? Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 15:40:58 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves vs. Magical Beings...... In a message dated 1/19/99 12:41:31 PM Central Standard Time, brizio@lunet.it writes: << No wait. I don't think they can use infravision to read normal print in the dark, unless that was printed with fresh blood :-) I may be wrong, but IMC I wouldn't allow the PCs to use infravision for reading in the dark. >> They can't read in the dark. But what about dwarves,and all the other races that have infravsion, are they magical too. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 15:41:52 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves vs. Magical Beings...... In a message dated 1/19/99 12:41:31 PM Central Standard Time, brizio@lunet.it writes: << Side thought. The effects of the Week of no Magic probably killed some magical being. Who got XP for those killings? Rad? Ixion? The whole Fellowship of the Star? The PCs? >> What is this Week of No Magic? I have never read about it. Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 15:44:52 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thelvin Fox-eyes I never knew that Silver Dragons didnt exist in Mystara. That sux. Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 16:07:07 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel >>Removing the elderly -- who aren't having kids, anymore -- is not a >>plausible way to limit a population's growth. It's like trying to control >>human overpopulation by killing every man who's had a vasectomy. > >But child birth is not a problem, because SE birth rate is barely enough to >avoid extinction. We've already discussed about this in the past, right? >If you remove the elderly the you make sure that the average lifespan does >not rise. What's the "average lifespan" got to do with anything? It's countries which have the SHORTEST average lifespans that are most overpopulated, right here on Earth! I just don't see what you're getting at here, if you claim that eliminating a few old people is going to keep the shadow elves from out-breeding the space that's available to them. >>In any case, as Gaz13 itself points out, it's only in the years since food >>supplies ceased to be a problem > >I don't think food supplies ever ceased to be a problem for SE until they >conquered Alfheim. Food supplies ceased to be a problem, IIRC, when they settled in one place and could begin to domesticate their giant slugs and trania. If food was still scarce, SE farmers wouldn't waste their time raising giant spiders for their silk, or whatever it is that they smoke in those funny pipes of theirs! The City of Stars seems to be quite affluent, as it's described in Gaz13; the only reason you don't see elves feasting all the time is because Rafiel's teachings discourage them from doing so, except on ceremonial occasions. >I'm not to familiar with HW races, but I seem to remember that the >wanderers practice is used also among the Gentle Folk (IIRC). This lead me >to think that this is an old custom, dating back from Evergrun era. Surface >elves have then forgotten this custom because it became unnecessary, while >SE and those in the HW still have this, apparently evil, practice. You are mixing up your HW elves. The Gentle Folk neither exile Wanderers nor expose malformed babies. (The Gentle Folk don't do much of anything, to be honest!) It's the Schattenalfen who exile their elderly ... a practice which their evil patron Atzanteotl probably taught them, as a way to ape Rafiel's teachings, to encourage their callousness, and to otherwise be a smart-ass. Perhaps it's the Icevale elves' custom of abandoning severely malformed babies which you're thinking of ... a custom they share with the Schattenalfen, and which probably dates back to their radiation-sickness after in the Broken Lands disaster. However, ONLY the severely-deformed who couldn't possibly survive in their harsh climate are exposed, in either of these two HW cultures; the slightly-misshapen, like Galen (the Schattenalf whose distorted face was "locked" in a cruel smile, from the "Nightwail" module), seem to be accepted. Besides, IIRC there's an albino criminal from Alfheim in Gaz13, who has infiltrated the City of Stars. If exposing offspring with genetic defects was a universal elven custom, surely he would have been a victim of it! A number of NPC elves are also described in Gaz5, who seem too old to still be living in Alfheim, if exiling of elders were the norm for elven societies. Even Ilsundal himself (!) must've been pretty darned ancient, when he attained Immortality; yet he usually chooses to appear to his followers as an aged elf, which is hardly a form that an age-hating culture would find impressive. >Flaemish were bigots, their new patron (Rad) does nothing to change this >(or better he makes the Flaemish bigotry law) but he is not to be blamed. >Shadow Elves gave birth to deformed babies and had the habit of chasing >away the elderly people, Rafiel does nothing to change it (even if he can), >and he's marked as evil. >Funny :-) Rad doesn't even HAVE any clerics in Glantri; indeed, he doesn't seem to have ANY Immortal influence over what the Glantrians believe, evil or otherwise! Glantri has no Immortal patron of which its mortal inhabitants are aware, and its princes disdain religious belief in general. The only reason why Glantrians "worship" the Radiance (and thus, sustain Rad indirectly) is because the vast majority -- i.e. anyone who isn't actually in the Brotherhood -- think that "Rad" is just another synonym for "magic": the only power they see fit to revere. The shadow elves, on the other hand, DIDN'T expose their babies for the slightest physical defect, or exile their elderly regardless of their state of health, until Rafiel commanded them to do so. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 16:17:00 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thelvin Fox-eyes >Thelvyn was a gold dragon, not a silver. There aren't any silver dragons >on Mystara -- at least, not unless the Great One has started creating some >in secret -- just the standard 5 "chromatics" and the golds, plus gemstone >versions of these six. Oops! I forgot about the SEA dragons! Those are described in the Creature Catalogs, at least for oD&D; they are not like any of the aquatic dragon-types that've been described for the AD&D game, resembling large sea serpents with fin-like "gliding" wings, and spitting globs of deadly poison mucus (ick!) as their breath weapon. I don't know if there's AD&D stats for Mystaran sea dragons available anywhere ... sorry. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 16:24:10 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dawn of the Grand Council >I dont mean to ask a lame ?, but what is the MMB? Mike It's not a lame question, Mike ... although it was lame of me, to forget there were new folks here who might not know what the abbreviation meant! "MMB" is TSR's Mystara Message Board. It's accessible via their website at tsronline.wizards.com, and is the other major forum for discussing Mystara which I know of. Check it out: Bruce Heard (author of Gaz3, Gaz10, the "Princess Ark" series and several modules) seems to respond to it quite often. :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 20:42:08 -0500 From: Sean Curtin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquas Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: > That would all be good except for the part about the "Create Air" spell -- that > effect would fail when the magic does, even though the dome would remain > intact and transparent. Some sort of mundane backup system would be > required. Lots of houseplants? :) Sean Curtin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 16:30:29 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves vs. Magical Beings...... >In a message dated 1/19/99 12:41:31 PM Central Standard Time, brizio@lunet.it >writes: > ><< Side thought. The effects of the Week of no Magic probably killed some > magical being. Who got XP for those killings? Rad? Ixion? The whole > Fellowship of the Star? The PCs? > >> >What is this Week of No Magic? I have never read about it. Mike This is yet another reference to events in the "Wrath of the Immortals" scenario. In their war with Alphatia, the Rad and Glantrians use the Nucleus of the Spheres to devastate Alphatia's capital city, Sundsvall. However, the artifact backfires and drains all magic from Mystara for one week. The drain is much more severe that the annual Day of Dread; elves, dragons, and other "magical" beings are stricken ill and helpless (which is what got this argument over which races are "magical" going!), and the inner sun of the Hollow World went dark, among other things. Later, hordes of Alphatian wizards of the Grand Council start bombarding Glantri City from overhead with their spells. In desperation, Rad activates the Nucleus again; this time, the device really goes crazy and sinks the entire continent of Alphatia! That's when PCs must stop the artifact from exploding, and when an Old One finally steps in, chews out Ixion, and abducts Rad to who-knows-where. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 16:36:51 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves In a message dated 1999-01-18 22:16:24 Eastern Standard Time, au998@freenet.carleton.ca writes: > IMC I > extrapolated this to the surface world as well, such that *most* (but not > all) elves practice magic - you always get a few (maybe 10-20% of the > population) who just can't learn, or who simply don't want to learn > (killing beasties with swords is much more enjoyable!). Of course the problem with any race having inherent Mage abilities is that some will either refuse to develop their abilities beyond first level or (worse yet) refuse to develop their native talent. I think it may be the talent that makes the difference: 100% of all elves have the talent to become wizards. Some (those who were born in the Hollow World and have intelligence of less than 16) are initially unable to develop that talent, while others fail or refuse to do so for various reasons. Of humans and all the other demi-human races, however, magical talent is not universal -- many if not most members of these races are completely unable to learn magic of any kind, whether wizardly, priestly, or psionic. On this basis, elves are inherently "magical" while other races are not. Of course, life span would have a similar effect. A 50 year old dwarf or a 30 year old halfling adventurer would lose some stamina and agility if the magic that made him the equivalent of a 20 year old human failed -- but a 110 year old elf would be in real trouble. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #15 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, January 20 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 016 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment [MYSTARA] - Maps from BC 2000 Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment Re: [MYSTARA] - Thelvin Fox-eyes Re: [MYSTARA] - Maps from BC 2000 Re: Re: Old Averoigne (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel) Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards of the Coast are...? Re: [MYSTARA] - Maps from BC 2000 Re: Old Averoigne (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel) Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment [MYSTARA] - Aquatic origins of humanoids (was Aquas) Re: [MYSTARA] - Maps from BC 2000 Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquas Re: [MYSTARA] - Dawn of the Grand Council Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves vs. Magical Beings...... Re: [MYSTARA] - Thelvin Fox-eyes [MYSTARA] - Elves of Mystara [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v5.6 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 16:04:57 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment Markus Olavi Montola wrote: > > Lawful -- Person who supports local laws and order > Chaotic -- Person who opposes local laws and order > Neutral -- Person in between > > So, the Shadow Elves must be judged by their own laws and culture; and > those following Rafiel's orders on infants and wanderers should be > Lawful. (In AD&D; OD&D:s Lawful/Chaotic is more like Good/Evil in AD&D) I would agree with this. This part of the alignment concerns the character's place in society. > Good -- Person who works for greater good with the cost of self-sacrifice > Evil -- Person who works for personal good by sacrificing greater good > Neutral -- Person in between > > In case of SE:s, laws are the laws of Rafiel, and the greater good is the > greater good of everyone. But as the culture is xenophobic and in that > way the SE:s are misled, they don't consider the good of Alfheimers (who > are 'bad' from their perspective) as important as the good of their own > oppressed, exile people. This part is always the tough one. Generally, I feel it concerns the character's morality compared to the overview of morality. This is why the some practices of the Azcans are evil though their society doesn't see it that way. The SE may see themselves as good, the Alfheimers may see them as evil. When the day is done, they aren't much of either :) > Therefore, the best alignment for an ideal shaman of Rafiel is Lawful > Good. I'm kinda agreeing with our two ladies of Mystara (Jenn and Sharon) about Rafiel. He's forcing actions on the SE that violate a basic instinct (that be a mother's caring for her child). I'd have a hard time believing Rafiel is LG (he certainly believes in his idea of good). Rafiel is dependent on the SE shamans being LN (without a sense of good only law). My opinion anyway :) - -- Timothy R. Haney galwylin@airnet.net The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:02:57 +1100 (EST) From: Shawn Stanley Subject: [MYSTARA] - Maps from BC 2000 > Has anyone out there in Mystara-land come up with a map of what the Known > World might've looked like, at the dawn of the Nithian era? Specifically > I'm looking for something that's more recent than Blackmoor, but from > before the disaster of 1700 BC rendered the Broken Lands and Ethengar > Steppes so inhospitable, the Atruaghin Plateau was raised and dried up the > Asanda region, and the islands of Ierendi and Minrothad broke away from the > coastline. > > If anybody's got a map like that on their website, or could snail-mail me a > copy, please let me know. If not ... well, let me know that too, so I can > start drawing one up (with help from anyone who's interested, of course! > ;-) ). There is a map set at the height of the Nithian Empire showing the Empire. It's done by James Mishler and is available at my homepage, curiously enough, under the geography section under both Hollow World - Nithia or Known World - - Ylaruam. I don't know of any more wide ranging maps that this, or at the very least they're not on my homepage :o) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 02:17:27 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment > Therefore, the best alignment for an ideal shaman of Rafiel is Lawful > Good. That's the way Rafiel likes it. Usually the SE:s are probably > Lawful Neutral (the religious system enforces the moral backbone of SE:s, > so they strongly obey Rafiel's laws, and the King chosen by Rafiel > himself). And after that come Lawful Good and Lawful Evil. > Good idea markus, but I dont see them being Lawful Good. Why would they be > lead by someone that is Chaotic Neutral in alignment. The Princess is of that MAJORITY would be LN. And LG:s are led by chaotic princess, because the law puts her on the throne -- revolting _THAT_ easily will cause only bad things to come. One more thing supporting the LG being the favorable alignment: Porphyriel, the chosen shaman of Rafiel, is certainly LG. As I see Rafiel good immortal (at least compared to Rad), i presume he would like good shamans, but LN will do perfectly. And as all the shamans are indoctrinated from their birth, a non-lawful shaman would be a truly exceptional thing. > alignment, but still you made some good points. King Telemon is Lawful > Neutral, so I think I am goiing to lean towards LN....Mike Yes, Telemon is exactly that. If you must use alignments. - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:54:41 EST From: Mystaros@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thelvin Fox-eyes In a message dated 99-01-19 15:47:33 EST, Nurvel@aol.com writes: << I never knew that Silver Dragons didnt exist in Mystara. That sux. Mike >> They do if you WANT them to... remember, Mystara is YOURS to do with as you please! As Håvard mentioned, I include them in my own Mystara, where they are "native" to the north-west corner of the Davanian continent (Izondia). Some of their history can be found in my History of Blackmoor, available on Shawn's web page... Mystaros *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 20:00:19 EST From: Mystaros@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Maps from BC 2000 In a message dated 99-01-19 13:32:38 EST, dornhoff@bio.umass.edu writes: << If anybody's got a map like that on their website, or could snail-mail me a copy, please let me know. >> I have one sitting around somewhere... Not much detail, though... But I'll see what I can do... Mystaros *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:30:51 EST From: BoBoII@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: Old Averoigne (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel) In a message dated 1/19/99 11:07:16 AM, you wrote: <> More or less *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:47:45 EST From: Mystaros@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards of the Coast are...? In a message dated 99-01-19 00:00:56 EST, dolan@mhd1.moorhead.msus.edu writes: << In the second and 3rd quarter TSR plans to publish old D&D it is planned to come out in April if i remember right. It is a very basic book (i think) Check out your local gaming store for more info. On Sat, 16 Jan 1999, Richard Vowles wrote: >> Actually, the "NEW" D&D is a cut-rate version of AD&D. It's the new Introductory Dungeons and Dragons (ID&D for short), the same as in the new "D&D Fast-Play" Modules... When WotC made the deal with Arneson, they no longer had a pretext to make D&D a seperate and distinct game from AD&D, so now anything coming out called "D&D" is simply a sub-brand of AD&D, not really true D&D as included in the Cyclopedia, Five Box Sets, Etc... Mystaros *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 20:45:31 EST From: Mystaros@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Maps from BC 2000 I put the map I have up on my web page: www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/1437/index.html The map alone is at: www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/1437/2500bcp.gif It is actually circa 2500 BC politically, but physically there are no changes from the last aftershocks of the GRoF (circa 3000 BC) through the Cataclysm of Taymor (ca. 2000 BC)... Mystaros *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 22:09:20 -0500 (EST) From: Frederic Ferro Subject: Re: Old Averoigne (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel) On Tue, 19 Jan 1999, Markus Olavi Montola asked: > BTW, am I in error, or doesn't "Laterre" mean Earth in French, though in > a little ingrammatical form of writing? Yes, it would be "la Terre" in French. I think the term "Laterre" is an invention of TSR. Do the Scottish characters appear in some of CAS's short stories? Clark Ashton Smith may have created "Averoigne" after James Branch Cabell's "Poictesme" Cycle (although Klar-Kash-Ton's version is simpler than Poictesme). Fred *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 22:22:50 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel In a message dated 1999-01-19 12:25:32 Eastern Standard Time, dornhoff@bio.umass.edu writes: > And even societies which DID have the custom of abandoning their elderly, > like the Algonquin, WEREN'T at all happy or proud of themselves, when they > resorted to doing so! It's something which even their own folklore depicts > as an act of bitter desperation that's to be mourned, NOT a "noble deed" to > be celebrated ... which is the exact opposite of how Rafiel depicts the > shadow elven expulsion of their aged. The same applies, for abandonment of > daughters in Asia: so long as there's food enough for everyone, even > female babies are provided for. And lest anyone think that horror at abandoning infants is a modern idea -- Christians from the 1st century AD and Jews from even earlier considered the common Greco-Roman practice of abandoning infants to die as highly sinful and went to a great deal of trouble to rescue those infants. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 22:22:35 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel In a message dated 1999-01-19 05:38:16 Eastern Standard Time, herve@hotmail.com writes: > I disagree with you here. This doesn't necessarily give them a bias > toward evilness. The fact that Atzanteotl is their second favorite Immortal would be evidence of some sort of evil tendencies. If there were more "heretic" shadow elves who followed Immortals like Ordana or Eiryndul, I might think otherwise. > Actually, for most SE, it may be a very important > experience. There is a saying that you learn from your mistakes. You > also learn from harsh things that happen to you. Maybe actually those SE > that have had to abandon a deformed baby understand better the suffering > of others. It might dispose them to feel sympathy towards other shadow elf mothers who have to abandon their babies -- but it does not lead them to abandon the practice. And remember that the shadow elves are highly intelligent and so can discern patterns in the teachings of Rafiel -- and the main pattern that can be discerned is that they should approach life with a completely ruthless and xenophobic attitude. I have seen no experiences that most shadow elves would have undergone prior to their conquest of Alfheim that might lead them to change their ways -- and even afterwards the only such exception that I can recall is the reaction of Darokin to their threats. When the Darokinians offered to talk things out with them, the shadow elves were evidently flabbergasted. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 22:22:38 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment In a message dated 1999-01-19 10:25:18 Eastern Standard Time, mmontola@cc.hut.fi writes: > I feel I'm pressing the subject, but let's look at the AD&D alignment > system carefully. > > Lawful -- Person who supports local laws and order > Chaotic -- Person who opposes local laws and order > Neutral -- Person in between That approach makes the law/chaos axis completely arbitrary, as local laws can differ greatly from place to place. The local laws can even be chaotic in nature, if they are based on the whims of the ruler and form no coherent system. The real question should be whether the character sees his universe as being an orderly system (lawful), as being totally arbitrary (chaotic), or somewhere in between (neutral). A character's answer to this question will determine much about how he behaves. For example, a lawful character will feel obligated to keep his sworn word, even if later circumstances make doing so quite unpleasant for him. On the other hand, a chaotic character will give very slight weight to his sworn word. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 22:22:45 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Aquatic origins of humanoids (was Aquas) In a message dated 1999-01-19 12:12:28 Eastern Standard Time, dornhoff@bio.umass.edu writes: > Granted, that's more parsimonious ... but that's also what every OTHER > game-world I know of seems to assume: that humans are the "norm" which > everyone else evolved from or was based upon by the Powers That Be. Why > couldn't Mystara -- which already has such novel origins for the dwarves, > deep elves, and humanoids -- have gone the other way? :-) > > Bear with me, here. I'm not trying to re-write anyone else's campaigns; > I'm just trying to be different from what's gone before, in fantasy > literature. I think you may be on to something there, and it does mesh well with a certain wild scientific (or possibly pseudo-scientific) hypothesis that I read a few months back -- the "aquatic ape" hypothesis, which suggests that most of the differences between humans and apes arose because of a missing link that lived most of its life in the water. Okay, let's move the origins of the merfolk back as far as is reasonably possible and see where that gets us. I will start with the garls -- a large and stupid pre-human race. My hypothesis suggests that they are the ancestors of most of the modern humanoid races. The garls who remained on land eventually evolved into dwarves, halflings, and beastmen -- all races that are distinctly uncomfortable with water and who have little or no talent with wizardly magic, and all of whom are further removed from humanity than the races for which we can posit aquatic origins. At some point a few garls wandered into the sea, became more and more used to living there, and eventually evolved into a fully aquatic form. In the process they also became much more intelligent, and eventually evolved into the kna. The kna survive to the present day, but over the millenia they have evolved further -- into the the merfolk, then the tritons, then the aquatic elves, then the nixies. Note a general trend here of each succeeding race being smaller, smarter, longer lived, and more magically talented than the preceding race, albeit with a few minor exceptions. Another line of kna evolved into the sea giants. All of these species survived and have thrived to the present day. Eventually some of the descendants of these races returned to the land. The merfolk evolved into brute-men, the tritons (after crossing with brute- men) into humans, the aquatic elves into land elves, and the sea giants into all the other types of giants. Perhaps the Alphatians were descended from those tritons who did not interbreed with the brute-men -- that might explain their increased magical talent. Do these ideas have any potential? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 22:22:48 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Maps from BC 2000 In a message dated 1999-01-19 17:51:55 Eastern Standard Time, shawn@leme.anu.edu.au writes: > There is a map set at the height of the Nithian Empire showing the Empire. > It's done by James Mishler and is available at my homepage, curiously enough, > > under the geography section under both Hollow World - Nithia or Known World > - Ylaruam. What is the URL for these maps or for your homepage, please? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 02:36:51 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment In a message dated 1/19/99 6:19:26 PM Central Standard Time, mmontola@cc.hut.fi writes: << MAJORITY would be LN. And LG:s are led by chaotic princess, because the law puts her on the throne -- revolting _THAT_ easily will cause only bad things to come. One more thing supporting the LG being the favorable alignment: Porphyriel, the chosen shaman of Rafiel, is certainly LG. As I see Rafiel good immortal (at least compared to Rad), i presume he would like good shamans, but LN will do perfectly. And as all the shamans are indoctrinated from their birth, a non-lawful shaman would be a truly exceptional thing. >> i agree with you for the most part. i have decided that most would be LN, but PWA 3 states that Porphyriel is LN. Its a hard thing to figure out. Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 02:38:08 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquas In a message dated 1/19/99 6:22:04 PM Central Standard Time, masscurt@berkshire.net writes: << Lots of houseplants? :) Sean Curtin >> I would agree with that one Sean............LOL Mike Maybe you guys should just not worry about it sometimes, if it works who cares. But the debates have been interesting *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 02:39:03 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dawn of the Grand Council In a message dated 1/19/99 6:22:09 PM Central Standard Time, dornhoff@bio.umass.edu writes: << >I dont mean to ask a lame ?, but what is the MMB? Mike It's not a lame question, Mike ... although it was lame of me, to forget there were new folks here who might not know what the abbreviation meant! "MMB" is TSR's Mystara Message Board. It's accessible via their website at tsronline.wizards.com, and is the other major forum for discussing Mystara which I know of. Check it out: Bruce Heard (author of Gaz3, Gaz10, the "Princess Ark" series and several modules) seems to respond to it quite often. :-) >> Thanks, I kind of figured it was something along those lines. Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 02:40:58 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves vs. Magical Beings...... In a message dated 1/19/99 6:34:06 PM Central Standard Time, dornhoff@bio.umass.edu writes: << his is yet another reference to events in the "Wrath of the Immortals" scenario. In their war with Alphatia, the Rad and Glantrians use the Nucleus of the Spheres to devastate Alphatia's capital city, Sundsvall. However, the artifact backfires and drains all magic from Mystara for one week. The drain is much more severe that the annual Day of Dread; elves, dragons, and other "magical" beings are stricken ill and helpless (which is what got this argument over which races are "magical" going!), and the inner sun of the Hollow World went dark, among other things. Later, hordes of Alphatian wizards of the Grand Council start bombarding Glantri City from overhead with their spells. In desperation, Rad activates the Nucleus again; this time, the device really goes crazy and sinks the entire continent of Alphatia! That's when PCs must stop the artifact from exploding, and when an Old One finally steps in, chews out Ixion, and abducts Rad to who-knows-where. >> Thank you...that clears up alot of the missing info for me. I wish I had that Boxset because my characters aren't in the present time period yet. Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 02:43:20 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thelvin Fox-eyes In a message dated 1/19/99 6:57:32 PM Central Standard Time, Mystaros@aol.com writes: << They do if you WANT them to... remember, Mystara is YOURS to do with as you please! As Håvard mentioned, I include them in my own Mystara, where they are "native" to the north-west corner of the Davanian continent (Izondia). Some of their history can be found in my History of Blackmoor, available on Shawn's web page... Mystaros >> Yeah I know that I can do what I want. i generally do, but I try to stay "canon", it''s just in my blood to. Silver Dragons are the cooliest ones. Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 04:40:28 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Elves of Mystara Are the Sylvain Elves of Mystara the same thing as the High Elves of AD&D? Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:41:22 CET From: "Herve Musseau" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v5.6 Mystara FAQ version 5.6 by Hervé Musseau The latest version of this document can be found at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/Mystara/mystfaq.txt Q: What is Mystara? A: Mystara is an imaginary world created by TSR as a campaign world for roleplaying games using the rules of Dungeons and Dragons. Q: What is a roleplaying game? A: Roleplaying games are games in which people play the role of imaginary fantastic characters like warriors or wizards and try to complete an adventure under the guidance of a game master. Q: I never heard of Mystara, but I know a setting called the Known World which looks pretty the same. What's the difference? A: Mystara got a name as a world only recently; before that, it was often referred to as the Known World, although Mystara is more than just the Known World. Q: So, what's Mystara? The Known World and what else? A: Mystara is basically composed of 2 main parts, the Outer World and the Hollow World, plus 2 moons, and some other exotic settings. Q: A Hollow World? A: Yes. Mystara, unlike our earth, is hollow, an empty sphere. It has an internal sun that lights the interior world, making it inhabitable. It holds old civilizations that are now extinct on the Outer World, placed there by the Immortals with strong magic preventing them from evolving much or dying away. The only entrances to the Hollow World are through underground passages between the two worlds, and through the holes that stand in place of the north and south poles. Q: And the Outer World? A: The Outer World is mostly like our Earth. It comprises: * the Known World (now called Old World), where the most civilized countries are located, * Alphatia (only before AC 1009), * the Savage Coast and Hule, * the southern continent, called Davania, * the eastern continent, called Skothar. Q: Why is Alphatia part of Mystara only up to AC 1009? A: Because Alphatia, which is a large continent east of the Known World, sank into the ocean in AC 1009, at the end of the major event called Wrath of the Immortals. It is now a floating continent located in the Hollow World. Q: What exactly is Wrath of the Immortals? A: Wrath of the Immortals (or WotI) is a great campaign that TSR published to update the Known World. It deals with the Great War that involves the major countries of Mystara and that was caused by the Immortals to obtain control of the Nucleus of the Spheres, a powerful artifact located under Glantri. At the end of the war, Alphatia sinks, Glantri and Thyatis have suffered dramatically from the conflict and three new powers enter the political scene of Mystara: the Heldannic Territories, the Hagiarchy of Hule and the "revamped" Kingdom of Karameikos. Q: On the continental map published in the Master DM's book, there are some empires I've never read anything about in other products and on the list, like the Empire of Dorphin IV or the Empire of the Great Khan. Do they exist? Where can I find information about these? A: The map in the Master set is wrong, wrong, wrong! In the series of articles written by Bruce Heard in Dragon Magazine, the first in the series (Dragon #153) explains this all. The map was the was released by a very imaginative Thyatian, and wrongly accepted for the truth. There is no Empire of Dorphin IV, no Empire of the Great Khan, etc. Also, as you probably guessed, the size of the Thyatian Empire was largely exagerated on this map... Q: I've already heard from the Known World, and from the Hollow World too, but never as Mystara. What does all this mean? A: This is because Mystara is a very old world, one of the oldest created by TSR, and, as TSR grew, so did Mystara. All of these product lines are revelant to Mystara: * Mystara, of course, * the Known World and most stuff that were made for D&D (as opposed to AD&D) like these old good modules B and X, or the Gazetteers, * the Hollow World, * Red Steel/the Savage Coast, * Blackmoor. Also, some products bearing the label First Quest are related to Mystara. Q: Blackmoor? I know a Blackmoor, but it's part of Greyhawk, isn't it? A: Blackmoor was, like Greyhawk, the campaign world of one of TSR's founder, Dave Arneson. It was later placed in both Greyhawk and the Known World (as a past kingdom in the later), effectively making three Blackmoors exist. It seems there is no further relation between the two Blackmoors of Mystara and Greyhawk, however, although some people made the assumption; on the other hand, Judge's Guild's Blackmoor likely has much in common with Mystara's, as the DA series for the Known World was also written by Dave Arneson (so that JG First Fantasy Campaign is considered Mystara-relevant). Q: Where is it located? A: Blackmoor was a techno-magical kingdom that blew itself up a few millenia ago. The event shifted the planet's axis and Blackmoor is now the north pole. Sources are contradictory as to where Blackmoor stands; some place it on Brun, some on Skothar. Arguments in favor of Brun are the position of the Inn Between the Worlds and the Nucleus of the Sphere, and the fact that the Known World stands there; this is the solution proposed in some Gazetteers. Arguments in favor of Skothar are its sort of canonical status, and the feeling that all civilizations should not systamatically come from the Known World; this is the solution proposed in the Hollow World box. Note that, if you consider the Hollow World solution to be the truth in your campaign, the map in the box does have a typo : the names of Blackmoor and Thonia have been reversed (Blackmoor was north of the Empire of Thonia according to all other sources). Bruce Heard's opinion on this matter : << Blackmoor -- the travelling legend. If there were archaeologist on Mystara, they would have a devil of time figuring where the darn place was really located. Officially, it's supposed to be up there by the Thonian Marches. Unfortunately, conflicting info has crept into several products, getting in the way of the Thonian theory. The best thing is to assume evidence of Blackmoor's presence elsewhere is the result of later colonizations and outposts. Other communities were also magically displaced (such as a certain ancient tavern in the Broken Lands of the Known World). Definitely a messy development of the World of Mystara! :) >> So officially the answer is Skothar. Q: Ok, and now what's Red Steel? A: Red Steel is a setting that is part of Mystara (west of the Known World), although it was released as a stand-alone setting. Q: I have a player of the Church of Karameikos, and I whant to give him an Immortal, I suppose that it's a church with many Immortals (like the Greek / Latin church) but in Gaz 1 I dind't find any list of Inmortals... A: These are the immortals of the Church of Karameikos, as told by Bruce Heard in an old Dragon Magazine: Asterius (Eternal of Thought), Leader Kagyar (Eternal of Matter) Ilsundal (Hierarch of Thought) Valerias (Hierarch of Matter) Vanya (Empyreal of Time). Also, although Chardastes is a native Traladaran Immortal, he is venerated through the auspices of the Church of Karameikos, not the Church of Traladara. This is extrapolated from info in B1-9 In Search of Adventure. The Immortals of the Church of Traladara are: Halav Petra Zirchev. Q: You spoke of Immortals, what are they? Are they Gods? A: Mystara has a different pantheon when compared to other D&D settings. Most notably, it has no gods, but beings called Immortals. Immortals are mortals who, through their deeds, have reached a higher status granting them more power than mere mortals. Basically, however, Immortals are not very different from Gods of other settings. Q: Is Jaggar von Drachenfelds the Star Dragon? A: No. According to Bruce Heard's article in Dragon #170 http://www.tsrinc.com/periodicals/dragon/backissues/170jun91/170FromHatchlingTo.txt he became the Star Dragon for a brief period but relinquished the title for absolution. Q: Also you mentionned something about D&D not being AD&D. What does that mean? A: Mystara was the world designed to be used with the rules of D&D (often called OD&D to better distinct it from AD&D and from the generic term D&D which could mean both; OD&D stands for Old D&D or Original D&D - note that some few people call it BD&D for Basic D&D to distinguish it from even older rules). It appeared in the old boxed rules: the Expert box, the Companion box and the Master box. Most of the earlier modules designed for D&D were set in this world. Recently, however, Mystara has been converted to AD&D (along with Red Steel), but many people who play in Mystara do it with the old rules (or their reedition, Rules Cyclopedia). Q: When I read stuff about Mystara I keep seeing acronyms I cannot understand like WotI or PWA. What do they mean? A: There is a list of Mystara relevant acronyms at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/Mystara/acronyms.html Q: I heard that the Mystara line was cancelled. Is this true? A: It is unfortunately true. And Red Steel is cancelled too. Some novels pertaining to Mystara may be released as part of the First Quest line, and modules may be part of the Odyssey line. AFAIK, there is no such products in preparation however, though Wizards of the Coast (which bought TSR) has expressed its willingness to publish material for dead worlds, but never namely mentioned Mystara. Keep faith. Joshuan's Almanach was the last product of Mystara (to be precise the novel "The Black Vessel" has been released after, and to be even more precise it deals with the Savage Coast) and the Savages Baronies the last of Red Steel (except for online exclusives). Q: But I saw in TSR's 97 preview that there would be Red Steel modules released as online exclusive. What does this mean? A: TSR has released these modules for free on its site of MPGN at ftp://ftp.mpgn.com and http://www.tsrinc.com. Q: So, if TSR has dropped the line, how can I get new material for Mystara? A: There are many people on the web who love Mystara and have taken upon themselves to keep Mystara alive (and well alive). There is a mailing list dedicated to Mystara (MML) where people discuss together about it, exchanging ideas, points of view, and more. To subscribe, send e-mail to majordomo@mpgn.com. In the body, have the single line: subscribe Mystara-L . It has 224 people, as of end April 98. Not quite a billion served, but we're getting there. As a comparison, there are 395 people on the Realms list, TSR's flagship world (source : Leroy Van Camp, MML admin). There is also the TSR Mystara Message Board (MMB) at http://tsronline.wizards.com:80/mb/system/addnewuser.shtml where discussion revolves mostly around alternate Mystaras. There are also many pages around the net dedicated to Mystara, sometimes with lots of interesting materials. Some of these pages are organized into a Webring, check http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html for info about the Mystara webring. Now more than ever you should express your views on how Mystara should be brought back at http://CWSpot.com/Mystara/SaveMystara or join the SaveMystara Writer's Group whose goal is to get as many adventures and articles to the periodicals as we can. Q: Where can I find the old messages of the Mystara mailing list? A: The digests are collected at ftp://ftp.mpgn.com/Gaming/ADND/Worlds/Mystara/MailingListArchive/ and the oldest ones (prior to 1998) can be found at ftp://ftp.io.com/pub/mailing-lists/mystara-digest/ However for your convenience the most interesting aricles the list has come up with are collected and sorted on Shawn's page at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/ Q: Where can I find the old messages of the Mystara message board? A: There is no archiving of the board. However for your convenience the most interesting aricles the board has come up with are collected and sorted on Shawn's page at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/prodlist.html Q: Where can I find a complete list of the material published for Mystara? A: The most complete lists to my knowledge is at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/prodlist.html It includes rulebooks and modules published by TSR, Mystara-relevant Judge Guild supplements, a list of various magazine #s that contain adventures, rules or world description pertaining to Mystara, novels, TSR net resources, and Clark Ashton Smith stories related to Averoigne. All of these are ranked according to compatibility with Mystara (explicit, implicit, compatible, etc.) and the type of product (campaign source, rules supplement, adventure, etc.). Q: And where can I buy those products? A: Since the Mystara line is out of print, it is difficult to find them. If you're lucky you can find them in any shop that sells RPG stuff, or buy second-hand books. Some places where you can find Mystara stuff on the web: http://www.dragontrove.com/listing.html http://www.titan-games.com/ http://www.rpgspot.com/main.htm http://www.hitpointe.com http://www.eskimo.com/~darkh/ http://www.ida.net/users/groverm/sleeping.dragon/sdh.html http://www.djhobby.com/catalog/index.html http://www.sagesguild.com/ http://www.crazyegors.com/ the newsgroup rec.games.frp.marketplace and I got a special page for all Mystara books at Amazon.com: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/amazon.html Q: Where can I find the FAQ for the Mystara mailing list? A: Check at http://www.lesbois.com/members/malacoda/mmlfaq.htm . AFAIK there is no plain text version of this FAQ. _____________________________________________________________ Herve Musseau Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/ Net Almanac: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/9037/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #16 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, January 20 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 017 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thelvin Fox-eyes Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment Re: [MYSTARA] - The Good, the Bad, and mr. Rafiel Re: [MYSTARA] - Modules Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves vs. Magical Beings...... Re: [MYSTARA] - RE:Aquas Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment Re: [MYSTARA] - Modules Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment Re: [MYSTARA] - Maps from BC 2000 Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquatic origins of humanoids (was Aquas) Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 06:03:18 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thelvin Fox-eyes Thanks for clearing that up Sharon. After re-reading the books I found the passage that initially describes Thelvin's golden dragon form. Undead Dragons and Sea Dragons apperaed in the Creature Crucible. Arminath *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:40:35 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves of Mystara On Wed, 20 Jan 1999 Nurvel@aol.com wrote: > Are the Sylvain Elves of Mystara the same thing as the High Elves of AD&D? I didnt read the start of this debate, but you may be referring to the elves of the Sylvan realm. Now, the Sylvan realm is far to the north west on the continent where Alfheim, Thyatis and Karameikos lay. Most of the elves we know, originally came from the Sylvan realm and were lead to our part of the world by Mealiden Starwatcher via a magical rainbow bridge. (Also mentioned in the Dragonlord series.) Hope this helps, Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:19:53 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment > alignment: Porphyriel, the chosen shaman of Rafiel, is certainly LG. > i agree with you for the most part. i have decided that most would be LN, but > PWA 3 states that Porphyriel is LN. Its a hard thing to figure out. Mike So it is written, so it has to be..? :) Exactly why I oppose the alignment systems. - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:08:33 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment When Temple of Death stated that Hule was a chaotic nation, as opposed to all the nations of the Known World, I had trouble with this. I scrunched my face, and tried hard to figure out how a nation, opposed to law, could function. I have since figured out what alignment-obsessed gamers have yet to figure out. You have to keep in mind what the alignment system is for. It is basically a method to keep players in line and to have a system of repercussion if they step out of line. If a fellow rolls up a paladin, but then plays the role of a thief and murderer...then he isn't really being true to character, is he? One could get into all sorts of discussion as to whether the alignment system actually fulfills its purpose or not...but in the end, it matters most how one treats alignment. Do your players tend to stay in role? In that case, if a paladin chooses to do a dark action for the sake of having a "clay foot", then more power to him! Such a thing can add to the storyline. On the other hand, do your players roll up characters, that aren't really characters at all...but more like the objects that dance back and forth in a video game? That's the sort of thing the alignment system is meant to handle. Obviously, with the differing ways D&D and AD&D viewed alignment (and let's face it, both systems used the same vocabulary, but had very differing views...), there were writers who would translate law and chaos from AD&D to D&D...or a writer would view it in a differing way from another...and contradictions resulted. Its more important for the DM to figure out Porph's personality, rather than her alignment. An alignment is a useful tool for generalizations...or to get a rough idea into your head...but it is doubtful the players will ever know just what alignment Porph is... Markus Olavi Montola wrote: > > > alignment: Porphyriel, the chosen shaman of Rafiel, is certainly LG. > > i agree with you for the most part. i have decided that most would be LN, but > > PWA 3 states that Porphyriel is LN. Its a hard thing to figure out. Mike > > So it is written, so it has to be..? :) > > Exactly why I oppose the alignment systems. > > - Markus > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > W A R I S P E A C E > F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y > I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 15:21:14 +0100 (MET) From: Agathokles Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves On Tue, 19 Jan 1999 Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: > > Of course the problem with any race having inherent > Mage abilities is that some will either refuse to > develop their abilities beyond first level or (worse > yet) refuse to develop their native talent. I think > it may be the talent that makes the difference: > > 100% of all elves have the talent to become wizards. > Some (those who were born in the Hollow World and have > intelligence of less than 16) are initially unable to > develop that talent, while others fail or refuse to do > so for various reasons. > > Of humans and all the other demi-human races, however, > magical talent is not universal -- many if not most > members of these races are completely unable to learn > magic of any kind, whether wizardly, priestly, or > psionic. On this basis, elves are inherently "magical" > while other races are not. Then pureblood alphatians should also be considered "magical beings". IMO, magical creature should be only those "powered" by magic, like undeads, those of the fairy-tales kind (faeries, brownies, pixies, nixies... but you can include also elves and even unicorns) and dragons. > > Of course, life span would have a similar effect. > A 50 year old dwarf or a 30 year old halfling > adventurer would lose some stamina and agility > if the magic that made him the equivalent of a > 20 year old human failed -- but a 110 year old > elf would be in real trouble. > I don't think that magic keeps a 50 years old dwarf equivalent to a 20 years old human: even though magic had altered the aging process of dwarves, they are now completely non magical. Dwarves are natural in Mystara as humans in RW. Giampaolo Agosta *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:33:56 +0200 From: "Solmyr of the Azure Star" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment >I dont mean to stir this up again but last time i heard so many different >answers. I need to know the AD&D alignment for them because I am going to run >a mini-campaign with a few characters and they will be SE. I am just curious. >I havent read much about them, but I doubt the fact that they are Lawful in >nature, even though they let Rafiel guide them. I would think that they are >more along the neutral/? side, from what i have read. Thanks everyone, Mike Well, IMO, the shadow elves can have any alignment, just like all other races. There are examples of it: for example, Telemon is LN, Tanadaleyo and Kanafasti are CN, and Garafaele Galeifel is LE. ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star aka Azure Star Dragon solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:33:50 +0200 From: "Solmyr of the Azure Star" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Good, the Bad, and mr. Rafiel >:) It's funny that abort debate (or leaving deformed infants literally on >a god's mercy) always ends up as a gender-war. :) > Rathanos: "Bah! You females should just sit back and go on with your embroidery... it's a wonder how you ever achieve Immortality." Vanya: "Shut up, old oven, or I'll pour the contents of a Thyatian sewere in your fire!" :) >(BTW, Is Rad really Lawful, if he pursues his own scientifical ambitions >by putting an entire world's magical power on stake? Please don't begin >to argue on that, too...) > AD&D changed him to True Neutral, which is IMO fine. One could see his Lawfulness as being loyal to his friends, maybe. ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star aka Azure Star Dragon solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:33:53 +0200 From: "Solmyr of the Azure Star" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Modules >So is there such thing as playable module? One with no wandering monster >tables and ten-feet-square -maps on everything? > Mark of Amber :) I liked Veiled Society, too, although I wish it were longer and more detailed. ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star aka Azure Star Dragon solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:36:43 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves vs. Magical Beings...... Sharon wrote: >Which was my point: Infravision, as described in the rules, would ONLY >work in a fantasy world; ergo, it and every race that has it must be at >least slightly magical. I just say that, because Mystara's in another part of the Milky Way (that's how I do it, at any rate), there's some localized effect - cosmic rays or something, that caused infravision to crop up naturally among certain races. SInce those unique conditions don't exist at the unfashionable Western Spiral Arm (ie: Earth), we don't see it here :-). Worked for my players, some of whom were comp-sci types (who in other games, when faced with exploding laser guns in "Paranoia" would tell me "Real lasers don't explode like that." - I figure if those types of pro-realism people can accept my explanation, it must be okay ;-P) >Remember, Gaz3 was written in the early '80s. Virtually every fantasy >novel and setting of the time was still based, more or less overtly, on >Tolkien; and the paradigm that magic was fated to "wither away" and leave >only humans in the world was so pervasive, everyone in the gaming industry >was influenced by it. Sadly so. I just disregard the whole thing about magic dying, and focus on making my campaign enjoyable. That attitude was depressing IMO - the whole "magic-is-going-to-fade-away-and-leave-humans-everywhere" doctrine, combined with the "elves-will-leave-the-world-en-masse-for-paradise" prediction. Fr did it with Evermeet, Tolkien did it, who else? Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:24:09 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - RE:Aquas On Tue, 19 Jan 1999, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: > doesn't say anything about the marine races -- probably because "Sea > Peoples" was published later, so nothing was yet known about them -- or It was? I remember getting PC3 about a week before HW, BUT.. my local hobbytown may have been screwy.. Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:25:24 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment In a message dated 1/20/99 6:21:49 AM Central Standard Time, mmontola@cc.hut.fi writes: << Exactly why I oppose the alignment systems. - Markus >> I understand where you are coming from,but the alignment system doesnt totally dictate what one does. It's more of just a reminder of what actions that one really must not take or be penalized. Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:26:21 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel On Tue, 19 Jan 1999, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: > be celebrated ... which is the exact opposite of how Rafiel depicts the > shadow elven expulsion of their aged. The same applies, for abandonment of > daughters in Asia: so long as there's food enough for everyone, even > female babies are provided for. Its like "Logan's Run" When you turn 30, you go to die. It's a celebratory thing, Your friends throw a party, and go watch you get killed. Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:30:39 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment I for one enjoy the alignment systems. And yes chaotic societies can exist, as more like dictatorships. The Master of Hule basically makes them listen to his word as the final ruling, but everything goes more or less. Chaotic societies frequently change their laws and such to suit "someones" needs. I agree that the D&D and AD&D alignment systems are alittle gruff, but the work for me. Pallladium actually has about the best alignment system that I have ever seen. His is based on the fact that there are no True Neutral alignments in existance. One of my friends uses that system. Mike In a message dated 1/20/99 8:14:11 AM Central Standard Time, jdaly@friend.ly.net writes: << When Temple of Death stated that Hule was a chaotic nation, as opposed to all the nations of the Known World, I had trouble with this. I scrunched my face, and tried hard to figure out how a nation, opposed to law, could function. I have since figured out what alignment-obsessed gamers have yet to figure out. You have to keep in mind what the alignment system is for. It is basically a method to keep players in line and to have a system of repercussion if they step out of line. If a fellow rolls up a paladin, but then plays the role of a thief and murderer...then he isn't really being true to character, is he? One could get into all sorts of discussion as to whether the alignment system actually fulfills its purpose or not...but in the end, it matters most how one treats alignment. Do your players tend to stay in role? In that case, if a paladin chooses to do a dark action for the sake of having a "clay foot", then more power to him! Such a thing can add to the storyline. On the other hand, do your players roll up characters, that aren't really characters at all...but more like the objects that dance back and forth in a video game? That's the sort of thing the alignment system is meant to handle. Obviously, with the differing ways D&D and AD&D viewed alignment (and let's face it, both systems used the same vocabulary, but had very differing views...), there were writers who would translate law and chaos from AD&D to D&D...or a writer would view it in a differing way from another...and contradictions resulted. Its more important for the DM to figure out Porph's personality, rather than her alignment. An alignment is a useful tool for generalizations...or to get a rough idea into your head...but it is doubtful the players will ever know just what alignment Porph is... >> *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 19:34:23 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Modules > >So is there such thing as playable module? One with no wandering monster > Mark of Amber :) Yeah, I O U 1. Though when playing in Finnish, it's bad idea (IMHO) to use CD-speeches, even though a few of them were even good. Which was surprising. Teaching Rad some humanity was a nice idea (though not _NEW_ in any way), reminding me of history's greatest metaphysical RPG, Mage the Ascension. Dream sequences often work. > I liked Veiled Society, too, although I wish it were longer and more detailed. Exactly. a half dozen fights against level-1 -thugs is not my idea of Karameikan Web of Intrigue. Of good modules and Laterre, I _strongly_ recommend Ars Magica scenario called The Festival of the Damned, which takes place in medieval low-fantasy france -- easily convertable into Old Averoigne. Only possible problematic thing is that it includes strongly-christian theme of the Seven Deadly Sins (and that usually more than half of the characters are killed in the scenario), which may be hard to induce to Mystaran characters. A great scenario with some Mozart's Requiem and a bit of Carmina Burana. REALLY horrific scenario. And, as said, deadly. - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:38:45 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment In a message dated 1/20/99 9:34:43 AM Central Standard Time, solmyr@kolumbus.fi writes: << Well, IMO, the shadow elves can have any alignment, just like all other races. There are examples of it: for example, Telemon is LN, Tanadaleyo and Kanafasti are CN, and Garafaele Galeifel is LE. >> Of course its natural that they can have any alignment, but societies as a whole tend to share the same alignment. I had to know because from what I have read, they could all be considered evil (in the eyes of other Mystarans). Mike Who are Kanafasti and Garafaele Galeifel.......just curious.. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:41:36 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment Ah, but think about it. What is more lawful than a dictatorship? Obey the laws or die! And the laws are fairly simple and easy to remember: "Don't piss off the monarch!" That's why I have problems with the idea of a chaotic country...chaos... Unless you take it to mean the individual is more important than society...but heck, that's democracy! Sort of... But see, anytime you try to stick the peg of a country into the teeny tiny hole of an alignment, you are going to have trouble. Nurvel@aol.com wrote: > > I for one enjoy the alignment systems. And yes chaotic societies can exist, > as more like dictatorships. The Master of Hule basically makes them listen to > his word as the final ruling, but everything goes more or less. Chaotic > societies frequently change their laws and such to suit "someones" needs. I > agree that the D&D and AD&D alignment systems are alittle gruff, but the work > for me. Pallladium actually has about the best alignment system that I have > ever seen. His is based on the fact that there are no True Neutral alignments > in existance. One of my friends uses that system. > > Mike > > In a message dated 1/20/99 8:14:11 AM Central Standard Time, > jdaly@friend.ly.net writes: > > << When Temple of Death stated that Hule was a chaotic nation, as opposed > to all the nations of the Known World, I had trouble with this. I > scrunched my face, and tried hard to figure out how a nation, opposed to > law, could function. > > I have since figured out what alignment-obsessed gamers have yet to > figure out. You have to keep in mind what the alignment system is for. > It is basically a method to keep players in line and to have a system of > repercussion if they step out of line. > > If a fellow rolls up a paladin, but then plays the role of a thief and > murderer...then he isn't really being true to character, is he? > > One could get into all sorts of discussion as to whether the alignment > system actually fulfills its purpose or not...but in the end, it matters > most how one treats alignment. Do your players tend to stay in role? In > that case, if a paladin chooses to do a dark action for the sake of > having a "clay foot", then more power to him! Such a thing can add to > the storyline. > > On the other hand, do your players roll up characters, that aren't > really characters at all...but more like the objects that dance back and > forth in a video game? > > That's the sort of thing the alignment system is meant to handle. > > Obviously, with the differing ways D&D and AD&D viewed alignment (and > let's face it, both systems used the same vocabulary, but had very > differing views...), there were writers who would translate law and > chaos from AD&D to D&D...or a writer would view it in a differing way > from another...and contradictions resulted. > > Its more important for the DM to figure out Porph's personality, rather > than her alignment. An alignment is a useful tool for > generalizations...or to get a rough idea into your head...but it is > doubtful the players will ever know just what alignment Porph is... > >> > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 19:19:17 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment On Wed, 20 Jan 1999 Nurvel@aol.com wrote: > I for one enjoy the alignment systems. And yes chaotic societies can exist, > as more like dictatorships. The Master of Hule basically makes them listen to > his word as the final ruling, but everything goes more or less. Chaotic > societies frequently change their laws and such to suit "someones" needs. I > agree that the D&D and AD&D alignment systems are alittle gruff, but the work > for me. Pallladium actually has about the best alignment system that I have > ever seen. His is based on the fact that there are no True Neutral alignments > in existance. One of my friends uses that system. There are many ways to use the alignment system, and if it works for you I suppose the rest of us shouldn't pick on you ;) Personally, I have found it to be more of a hindrance than as an aid to gaming. >From the way I interprete alignments, a Chaotic society would me more of an Anarcy. a Chaotic good society would be the perfect Anarchy, while a CE or CN society would be chaos in the true sense of the word. A dictatorship would probably be Lawful Evil IMO. As for Palladium, why do people play that game? The aligment system may be ok, but the rest of it is just horrible... :( Håvard, probably offending someone *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 19:31:32 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Maps from BC 2000 On Tue, 19 Jan 1999 Mystaros@aol.com wrote: > The map alone is at: Wow James, that thing is neat. You gotta make more of this stuff! :) Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 20:16:32 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquatic origins of humanoids (was Aquas) On Tue, 19 Jan 1999 Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: > Okay, let's move the origins of the merfolk back as far as is reasonably > possible and see where that gets us. I will start with the garls -- a large > and stupid pre-human race. My hypothesis suggests that they are the > ancestors of most of the modern humanoid races. The garls who remained > on land eventually evolved into dwarves, halflings, and beastmen -- all races > that are distinctly uncomfortable with water and who have little or no talent > with wizardly magic, and all of whom are further removed from humanity > than the races for which we can posit aquatic origins. > > At some point a few garls wandered into the sea, became more and more > used to living there, and eventually evolved into a fully aquatic form. In > the > process they also became much more intelligent, and eventually evolved > into the kna. The kna survive to the present day, but over the millenia they > have evolved further -- into the the merfolk, then the tritons, then the > aquatic > elves, then the nixies. Note a general trend here of each succeeding race > being smaller, smarter, longer lived, and more magically talented than the > preceding race, albeit with a few minor exceptions. Another line of kna > evolved into the sea giants. All of these species survived and have thrived > to the present day. > > Eventually some of the descendants of these races returned to the land. > The merfolk evolved into brute-men, the tritons (after crossing with brute- > men) into humans, the aquatic elves into land elves, and the sea giants > into all the other types of giants. Perhaps the Alphatians were descended > from those tritons who did not interbreed with the brute-men -- that might > explain their increased magical talent. > > Do these ideas have any potential? I kinda like this. I dunno about the last part though. I think connecting everything might be a bad idea. I'd leave the humans and elves out of this. The Aquatic elves should rather be leves entering the water in a similar way as that of the Garls. Humans should rather be descendants of the Garls who remained on land. IMO ofcourse. Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:25:03 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment In a message dated 1/20/99 12:22:15 PM Central Standard Time, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no writes: << As for Palladium, why do people play that game? The aligment system may be ok, but the rest of it is just horrible... :( >> i can agree with that notion.........:) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #17 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, January 20 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 018 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Re: Maps from BC 2000 Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment Re: [MYSTARA] - Modules Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment Re: [MYSTARA] - Maps from BC 2000 Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquatic origins of humanoids (was Aquas) Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves vs. Magical Beings...... Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquatic origins of humanoids (was Aquas) Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 06:49:09 +1100 From: stan Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Maps from BC 2000 >Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 22:22:48 EST >From: Kaviyd@aol.com > >> There is a map set at the height of the Nithian Empire showing the Empire. >> It's done by James Mishler and is available at my homepage, curiously >enough, >> >> under the geography section under both Hollow World - Nithia or Known World >> - Ylaruam. > >What is the URL for these maps or for your homepage, please? Oh sorry. My homepage is at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 the map is at http://members.tripod.com/~stanles/anc_nith.jpg stan http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 15:02:08 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment On Wed, 20 Jan 1999, [iso-8859-1] Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: > As for Palladium, why do people play that game? The aligment system may be > ok, but the rest of it is just horrible... :( Actually.... Palladium's games aren't as bad as everyone says. The only problem is that none of the books are written for people to actually understand anything about the combat system. (Rifts is written better tho. none of tha recycled stuff that plagued Robotech and Heroes Unlimited!) However, Despite the glaring combat problem, and a few contradictions here and there (Ninjas and Superspies anyone? God.. If you could figure out what the hell is going on with Martial arts skills..) Palladium is actually a very rich environment. Taking Rifts again for example. That whole world is quite fleshed out, and compatible with everything. (I remember taking the "Flying Weasel Squadron" (my Robotech group) and rifting them to fight those crazy Atlanteans) I guess what I'm saying is that Palladium isn't *that* bad. Just add a few house rules, and play the game not like a dice-fest, but like a story-rpg, a la Vampire or Mage. Ethan ObMystara - I like Loki. He is doubleplusgood. He is the bestest Immortal... (can i get out of my geas now?) He is really a cool dude.. He is... - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 15:37:15 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Modules >Of good modules and Laterre, I _strongly_ recommend Ars Magica scenario >called The Festival of the Damned, which takes place in medieval >low-fantasy france -- easily convertable into Old Averoigne. Only >possible problematic thing is that it includes strongly-christian theme >of the Seven Deadly Sins (and that usually more than half of the >characters are killed in the scenario), which may be hard to induce to >Mystaran characters. Well, IIRC there's been quite a few Known World products that have overt borrowings from IRL mythology or history (not to mention Elfquest or bad 80s TV shows! ;-D) in them. The space voyage scenario of M1 - "Into the Maelstrom" was a direct, step-by-step retracing of Homer's "Odyssey"; and the (bogus) Olympian Gods from one of the IM-series modules didn't have any KW-related reason, for choosing those aliases ... except that they'd ring a bell for the players of Mystaran PCs! There's actually been a loooong tradition, in oD&D products and articles, of taking coy references to other fantasy/scifi settings, cameos by IRL historical or fictional characters, and "gag" settings like most of Gaz4 Ierendi -- not to mention some HORRIBLE puns! ;-D -- with a grain of salt. If you don't like using 'em because they're anachronisms, it's not too hard to write such things out of the adventures; otherwise, let the players groan about "Pawcester" or "finger nails" for a minute, then laugh and go on with the game. :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 15:54:50 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment >That's why I have problems with the idea of a chaotic country...chaos... > >Unless you take it to mean the individual is more important than >society...but heck, that's democracy! > >Sort of... Actually, I don't have any problem seeing the United States as a country with a Chaotic AD&D alignment. It's a country that aspires to the Chaotic Good ideal that governmental authority should have limits and that all people are born with rights which no law should infringe upon, and which suffers far more from the Chaotic Evil ills of crime and greed than from tyranny. In this respect, it's the diametric opposite of authoritarian states like the old Soviet Union: a socialist nation built on Marx's Lawful Good (albeit naive) hope that equality could be achieved through centralized management for the good of the group; but one which quickly fell prey to Stalin's Lawful Evil regime, and never really recovered from that legacy of governmental abuse of power. By my interpretation of the AD&D alignment system, the Cold War can be seen as a Law vs Chaos conflict, not a Good vs Evil one. (In the oD&D system, conversely, both sides were Neutral.) Most historical wars of ideology come down to that, IMHO; it'd be extremely rare to find a conflict IRL that's purely Good vs Evil. But of course, this is the MML, not a political science class. :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 15:56:17 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment In a message dated 1/20/99 12:47:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, jdaly@friend.ly.net writes: << Ah, but think about it. What is more lawful than a dictatorship? Obey the laws or die! And the laws are fairly simple and easy to remember: "Don't piss off the monarch!" That's why I have problems with the idea of a chaotic country...chaos... >> You have just made the best point of what a chaotic ruler is. A dictator changes the rules and laws on his whims and does what he wants, and if you disobey, you suffer what he wants you to suffer. Arminath *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 16:09:38 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Maps from BC 2000 >I put the map I have up on my web page: > >www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/1437/index.html > >The map alone is at: > >www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/1437/2500bcp.gif > >It is actually circa 2500 BC politically, but physically there are no changes >from the last aftershocks of the GRoF (circa 3000 BC) through the Cataclysm of >Taymor (ca. 2000 BC)... > >Mystaros Thanks, Mystaros! If the nation of Taymor is also on the map, that'd be even better than I'd hoped! :-) BTW, I'd been asking about this because two of the HM nations I'm working on -- Vedal and the kopru Dominarchy -- will date back to events which occurred in that era. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 16:25:59 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment In a message dated 1/20/99 2:05:05 PM Central Standard Time, eand@WPI.EDU writes: << Palladium's games aren't as bad as everyone says. The only problem is that none of the books are written for people to actually understand anything about the combat system. (Rifts is written better tho. none of tha recycled stuff that plagued Robotech and Heroes Unlimited!) >> I like the background for the Palladium fantasy RPG. It is kewl. Things are different than in your other standard Fantasy RPGs. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 22:31:24 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel At 12.23 19/01/99 -0500, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: >Let's put it this way, Herve: If Rafiel doesn't think the shadow elves >would loathe him for encouraging a practice that causes their infants to be >deformed ... then WHY does he tell them the deformities are a mark of >"spiritual weakness", or sins from past lives, rather than a byproduct of >the soul crystals HE taught them to use? If he has nothing to hide, why >does he find it so necessary to LIE to the shadow elves about everything >... even to his own shamans? Because gods.. er... Immortals (even RW ones) don't like to tell all the thruth to mortals. Real World religions are full of "strange" customs that are (or were) very useful, but RW gods (and their prophets) did not bother to explain why they were enforcing those customs. Need examples? Some religions forbid the followers to drink alcohol, the reason is obvious, but in the scred books (if any) no one wrote "You should not drink alcohol because you could get drunk....", they simply wrote: "You must not drink alcohol". Hope I explained my PoV clearly. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@gdr.net Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 16:50:32 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquatic origins of humanoids (was Aquas) >I think you may be on to something there, and it does mesh well with a >certain wild scientific (or possibly pseudo-scientific) hypothesis that I read >a few months back -- the "aquatic ape" hypothesis, which suggests that >most of the differences between humans and apes arose because of a >missing link that lived most of its life in the water. I've heard that theory. It is, indeed, "pseudo-science". The woman who popularized it believes that the angles at which human body hair grows are arranged, in the "streamlined" manner of an aquatic creature. What she failed to consider is that every mammal's hair/fur -- not just humans' -- is arranged like that: it's something that's left over from the reptiles, ever since the dawn of mammalian evolution. :-) >Okay, let's move the origins of the merfolk back as far as is reasonably >possible and see where that gets us. I will start with the garls -- a large >and stupid pre-human race. My hypothesis suggests that they are the >ancestors of most of the modern humanoid races. The garls who remained >on land eventually evolved into dwarves, halflings, and beastmen -- all races >that are distinctly uncomfortable with water and who have little or no talent >with wizardly magic, and all of whom are further removed from humanity >than the races for which we can posit aquatic origins. I'd agree with the dwarves, halflings, and garls all being related; the HW boxed set already traces the Beastmen and their humanoid descendents back to Hel's plot to reincarnate evil souls, so those should probably remain the products of a separate, Immortal-invoked creation. Perhaps, because they're in the middle of the size range, Blackmoor-era dwarves should be the first ones to evolve ... possibly from Mystara's answer to _Australopithecus robustus_, since those were about the same height as a dwarf, and were more heavily-built than other early hominids. (_A. africanus_ and its lightly-built kin, from which IRL humans evolved, might never have existed on Mystara.) From primitive dwarves, garls and halflings then split off as two separate lineages ... the halflings, from dwarves in Davania that became smaller and more gracile, and the garls, from dwarves that grew larger to cope with arctic conditions on pre-GRoF Brun. Giants might've evolved directly from garls, and a cross-breeding of garls with Beastmen much more recently might've contributed to one Beastman tribe's becoming ogres. >At some point a few garls wandered into the sea, became more and more >used to living there, and eventually evolved into a fully aquatic form. In >the process they also became much more intelligent, and eventually evolved >into the kna. The kna survive to the present day, but over the millenia they >have evolved further -- into the the merfolk, then the tritons, then the >aquatic elves, then the nixies. Note a general trend here of each >succeeding race >being smaller, smarter, longer lived, and more magically talented than the >preceding race, albeit with a few minor exceptions. Another line of kna >evolved into the sea giants. All of these species survived and have thrived >to the present day. Here, I'd be more inclined to have Protius create the merrow and kna as two fully-aquatic races; while cetaceans and ichthyosaurs may have returned to a marine existence IRL, no land animal's ever gone so far as to start breathing water again. Kna could be the ancestors of the shark-kin -- or vice versa -- while a particularly-civilized merrow culture became the tritons. Aquatic elves remain a separate race descended from Evergrun elves, who turned to Protius when they rejected the importation of Blackmoor's technology; the sea-Immortal made them water-breathers, in response. Nixies, being all-female* and made out of water (at least according to PC3), aren't likely to be related to anybody else -- except maybe dryads or fairy folk -- and arose on their own. Kopru and devilfish are also much too weird to be related to any of the above, although I've been working out the origins of the former, for my HM project. [* - Question: What do nixies call Protius, anyway...? Everyone else calls him the "Old-(male of our species)-In-The-Sea", but there ARE no such things as male nixies!] For those who mix AD&D races into the Mystara setting (heretics!!! j/k), kna and locathah are probably close relatives. Sahuagin and kuo-toa would also be part of this group of bipedal "fish-people", who don't have human heads or nurse their young ... as the merfolk/triton subgroup does. >Eventually some of the descendants of these races returned to the land. >The merfolk evolved into brute-men, the tritons (after crossing with brute- >men) into humans, the aquatic elves into land elves, and the sea giants >into all the other types of giants. Perhaps the Alphatians were descended >from those tritons who did not interbreed with the brute-men -- that might >explain their increased magical talent. Two waves (pun intended ;-D) of emigrations onto land could've occurred, after climate changes or the aggressions of other species began pushing the merrows/tritons out of their ancient undersea homelands. The first produced the Brute-Men, while the second -- which must've occurred among several different tribes, simultaneously -- produced the human ethnic groups of Neathar (on the proto-Alphatian/Anatalian lands), Tanagoro (in Skothar), and Oltecs (initially on Davania, then they spread all over). Alternately, the Brute-Men might've been descended from ordinary Neathar, who crossbred with dwarves or garls. >Do these ideas have any potential? Well, not if we're only going to add on to the existing HW history of Mystara. I hadn't actually planned on re-writing the origins of races we already knew about ... just on filling in the "blanks" the HW boxed set left, about the humans, hin, and Blackmoor-era dwarves. However, there's nothing to stop us from using your scenario to explain the origins of similar races, on other worlds ... maybe even on Old Alphatia! Perhaps Alphatians are descended from their OWN world's tritons -- thus explaining why magic-use was so ubiquitous, on their home planet -- whereas the "native" Mystaran humans are descendents of the less-magically-inclined merfolk. :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 23:03:24 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves vs. Magical Beings...... At 15.35 19/01/99 -0500, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: >Which was my point: Infravision, as described in the rules, would ONLY >work in a fantasy world; ergo, it and every race that has it must be at >least slightly magical. Following your line of thought everything on Mystara that cannot be found in the RW should be magical. Some examples: giants, treants, vampire roses... So all those things should glitter when hit my a detect magic spell. >Now that's a sick question! Next you'll be saying Atziann became >high-enough level to seek Immortality, because he'd sent those elves to >poke around the Broken Lands device, and thus got experience points for >wiping out Loarke's Great Horde! ;-) Mmmh.. why not? After all PCs get XP not just for killing monsters, but also for defeating them, chasing them away and tricking them into destroying themselves... :-) ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@gdr.net Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:12:03 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves of Mystara >On Wed, 20 Jan 1999 Nurvel@aol.com wrote: > >> Are the Sylvain Elves of Mystara the same thing as the High Elves of AD&D? It's probably best if you DON'T try to shoehorn Mystaran elves into the categories of elf from the MM. Like Krynn's Qualinesti, Silvanesti and Kaganesti (sp?), Mystara's got its own versions of the different elven cultures; with VERY few exceptions, all Mystaran elves use exactly the same game-rules. If you want to make Mystaran elves in your AD&D games more like the elves in oD&D, take away their resistance to Sleep and Charm magics, and extend their immunity to ghoul-touch paralysis to include all forms of paralytic touch-attacks by the undead. OD&D elves are ALWAYS fighter/mages -- unless they are "warrior-elves" from the Hollow World, or you're using optional rules from Bruce Heard's "Princess Ark" articles -- and they can cast their spells while wearing armor, even if it isn't "elven chain". OD&D elves get no "to hit" bonus with bows or swords, can't move silently in woodlands (unless they've taken a proficiency in that skill), and do not gain any of the special powers from the Complete Book of Elves. Shadow elves and Schattenalfen are NOT drow (ick! :-P) and should treated exactly like surface elves, except that sunlight or similar strong light imposes combat penalties on them (check Gaz13, available for download on TSR's website, for details), and they have 90' infravision instead of 60'. The only other elven "subrace" -- Mystarans NEVER use that word, BTW! :-) - -- in the Known World are the ship-loving "water elves" of Minrothad: they have a 75% chance of knowing in which direction they are moving, when they're navigating their ships, and might have a few other knacks (learned, not "genetic") that I can't remember. As a rule, Mystara products like to emphasize the cultural differences between different groups of elves, dwarves, etc, not the physical ones. Thus, Mystara has many elven cultures, but only two groups -- the surface elves and the shadow/Schattenalfen elves -- could really be considered "subraces" ... at least to the degree that AD&D worlds divide their elves into categories. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 23:26:58 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel At 16.07 19/01/99 -0500, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: >What's the "average lifespan" got to do with anything? It's countries >which have the SHORTEST average lifespans that are most overpopulated, >right here on Earth! I just don't see what you're getting at here, if you >claim that eliminating a few old people is going to keep the shadow elves >from out-breeding the space that's available to them. Let's see if I can explain myself more clearly. Starting SE population 1.000.000 people. The average lifespan is 800 years. Each year X people die and X child are born. As the SE start to settle down and "civilize" the place, food supplies cease to be a problem and their average lifespan raises. So the population rises. But if you chase away everyone that is 800 years old, then everything looks like when the average lifespan was 800 years (I don't count those killed by monsters are 'noids, because they're usually raised by Shamans, if possible). About "countries which have the SHORTEST average lifespans that are most overpopulated". IMO that happens because the average lifespan is rising. >You are mixing up your HW elves. Sorry. I told you I'm not too familiar with HW elves. >Besides, IIRC there's an albino criminal from Alfheim in Gaz13, who has >infiltrated the City of Stars. If exposing offspring with genetic defects >was a universal elven custom, surely he would have been a victim of it! I didn't say that. Moreover deformed babies are really deformed, so deformed that they look like orcs. An albino elf is just a normal elf with a different skin (and eye, and hairs) color... one that Alfheim ladies loved very much IIRC. >A >number of NPC elves are also described in Gaz5, who seem too old to still >be living in Alfheim, if exiling of elders were the norm for elven >societies. As I wrote in another mail. That was, IMO, an old elven practice that has been abandoned in modern elvish societies on the surface, because it was no more necessary. > >Rad doesn't even HAVE any clerics in Glantri; indeed, he doesn't seem to >have ANY Immortal influence over what the Glantrians believe, evil or >otherwise! Glantri has no Immortal patron of which its mortal inhabitants >are aware, and its princes disdain religious belief in general. The only >reason why Glantrians "worship" the Radiance (and thus, sustain Rad >indirectly) is because the vast majority -- i.e. anyone who isn't actually >in the Brotherhood -- think that "Rad" is just another synonym for "magic": >the only power they see fit to revere. Yes, but all Glantrians are considered followers of Rad when we get to count the number of followers each Immortal has. Each time they go to the temple they worship Rad, even if they think to revere the power of magic. >The shadow elves, on the other hand, DIDN'T expose their babies for the >slightest physical defect, or exile their elderly regardless of their state >of health, until Rafiel commanded them to do so. I don't believe it :-) Any chronomancer here? :-) ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@gdr.net Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 23:28:45 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel At 22.22 19/01/99 EST, Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: >The fact that Atzanteotl is their second favorite Immortal would be >evidence of some sort of evil tendencies. If there were more "heretic" >shadow elves who followed Immortals like Ordana or Eiryndul, I >might think otherwise. Atzanteotl and Rafiel are the only Immortals that showed some interest in the SE. I think that they wouldn't have refused other Immortals, if other Immortals only had cared about them... ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@gdr.net Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 23:31:22 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves At 15.21 20/01/99 +0100, Agathokles wrote: >I don't think that magic keeps a 50 years old dwarf equivalent to a 20 >years old human: even though magic had altered the aging process of >dwarves, they are now completely non magical. Dwarves are natural in >Mystara as humans in RW. Bravo! ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@gdr.net Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 23:37:42 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment At 12.38 20/01/99 EST, Nurvel@aol.com wrote: >Who are Kanafasti and Garafaele Galeifel.......just curious.. Radiant Mage and Radiant General of the Shadow Elves. This means that Kanafasti is the royal SE mage, while Garafaele is the leader of the SE army. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 21:59:58 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves At 11.52 19/01/99 -0500, SteelAngel wrote: >Not quite. In WoTI, it specifically states that magical races - Elves, >dragons, etc.. are weakened. Does it list also: dwarves, halflings...? Or just elves, dragons and etc.? >Therefore Elves are magical, irregardless of what magics they use. Ok. But we're back to the starting point. This discussion started when I said: "why does WotI consider elves a magical race?". The answer can't be: "They're magical because WotI says so" :-)W ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@gdr.net Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:46:05 -0500 (EST) From: Frederic Ferro Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment I tried to resist because I know this thread is off-topic and has lasted for years on rec.games.frp.misc but... sorry. Press the Delete button now if the topic of the moral adequacy of the Alignment system bothers you :-) On Wed, 20 Jan 1999, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: > Actually, I don't have any problem seeing the United States as a country > with a Chaotic AD&D alignment. It's a country that aspires to the Chaotic > Good ideal that governmental authority should have limits and that all > people are born with rights which no law should infringe upon, and which > suffers far more from the Chaotic Evil ills of crime and greed than from > tyranny. Au contraire... Some recent US obsessions about Constitutional matters or for legalese and judicial technicalities strike me as very "Lawful" (Lawful Neutral). Some US states have laws which infringe on privacy. Of course, there is a real individualistic, anarchist tendency in the Old Westerns or in Libertarians, which could be called "Chaotic Neutral". The real Chaotic Good would be more like "irresponsible hippies" (or maybe the Netherlands :-)). The US citizens like to view themselves as "Chaotic Good" but self-perception is not always truth (or Lawful Evil dictators would be "good"). > By my interpretation of the AD&D alignment system, the Cold War can be seen > as a Law vs Chaos conflict, not a Good vs Evil one. (In the oD&D system, > conversely, both sides were Neutral.) Well, here we see the limits of strict Alignments as it's a question of degrees. A democracy is always more Chaotic than a totalitarian state, but still has to be Lawful. Even between democracies, there could exist many relative degrees of "chaos". The US are more "Chaotic" than Europe about free speech or gun control but the Netherlands are far more "Chaotic" than the US about drugs, abortion, alternate lifestyles, and so on. And we could imagine an anarchist federation (maybe as in Ian Banks'novels) where even Netherlands would be considered as a "harsh" Lawful government. > Most historical wars of ideology > come down to that, IMHO; it'd be extremely rare to find a conflict IRL > that's purely Good vs Evil. Yes, WW2 and the US Civil War may be the only two wars where there was a clear-cut Manichaean opposition (it would really matter for "the moral state of the world" if the Evil Side had won). All the other conflicts in world history seem to be more or less on the grey area (even independence wars). ObMystara: One of the reasons to praise Mystara is that the oppositions between Spheres are not strictly Law/Chaos or Good/Evil (except of course the Sphere of Entropy). WotI was mostly a war between "Energy", "Radiance energy" and other Spheres... You cannot say who is the "Good Side" between e.g. these cynical Thyatian slavers and those elitist Alphatian wizards. Do the Forgotten Realms have such a possibility of moral ambiguity? > But of course, this is the MML, not a political science class. :-) Indeed. Sorry about my ramblings... Won't do it again. Fred *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:49:40 -0500 (EST) From: Frederic Ferro Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquatic origins of humanoids (was Aquas) On Wed, 20 Jan 1999, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: > Perhaps Alphatians are descended from their OWN world's tritons -- thus > explaining why magic-use was so ubiquitous, on their home planet -- whereas > the "native" Mystaran humans are descendents of the less-magically-inclined > merfolk. :-) No, Air Alphatians are descendents of Avians (Faenare?)... :-) Fred *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:52:34 -0500 (EST) From: Frederic Ferro Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves Agathokles wrote: > >I don't think that magic keeps a 50 years old dwarf equivalent to a 20 > >years old human: even though magic had altered the aging process of > >dwarves, they are now completely non magical. Dwarves are natural in > >Mystara as humans in RW. But there may be something magical (and not cultural) about Halfling and Dwarves' inability to do magic? :-) Fred *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 23:24:31 +0200 From: "Solmyr of the Azure Star" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment >Of course its natural that they can have any alignment, but societies as a >whole tend to share the same alignment. I had to know because from what I >have read, they could all be considered evil (in the eyes of other Mystarans). Well, as a society I think they are LN. Tanadaleyo and her friend Kanafasti are chaotic fellows because they don't really like the current shaman-dominated system and seek to topple it. >Who are Kanafasti and Garafaele Galeifel.......just curious.. Kanafasti is the Radiant Wizard (basically Telemon's court wizard). Garafaele Galeifel is the Radiant General (commander of armies). ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star aka Azure Star Dragon solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #18 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Thursday, January 21 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 019 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment Re: [MYSTARA] - Gags Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves of Mystara Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - United Criers Guild (long) Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquatic origins of humanoids (was Aquas) Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquatic origins of humanoids (was Aquas) Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquatic origins of humanoids (was Aquas) Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquatic origins of humanoids (was Aquas) Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Rulers Re: [MYSTARA] - RE:Aquas Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves vs. Magical Beings...... Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves vs. Magical Beings...... [MYSTARA] - Elven Kin Re: [MYSTARA] - Gags Re: [MYSTARA] - Elven Kin Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 18:09:42 -0500 From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment Not at all. Law is law. Its the root of "lawful". Arminath@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 1/20/99 12:47:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, > jdaly@friend.ly.net writes: > > << Ah, but think about it. What is more lawful than a dictatorship? Obey > the laws or die! And the laws are fairly simple and easy to remember: > "Don't piss off the monarch!" > > That's why I have problems with the idea of a chaotic country...chaos... >> > > You have just made the best point of what a chaotic ruler is. A dictator > changes the rules and laws on his whims and does what he wants, and if you > disobey, you suffer what he wants you to suffer. > > Arminath > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 01:46:15 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gags > Well, IIRC there's been quite a few Known World products that have overt > borrowings from IRL mythology or history (not to mention Elfquest or bad Yes, but principal sins of the christian god are way too weird for a Glantrian mage (f.ex.) to obey, and in the Festival, sinners literally go to Hell. And that's why it would be even more deadly for Mystaran characters. Hell, even players playing monks or priests in that scenario usually end up paying for their sins... (The idea is a week before Easter in a French rural village. Every day one of the people in village is tempted with a deadly sin, who goes around trying to corrupt people in it, and those who clearly fall into sins, are judged rather harshly on Friday... In addition to other sins, usually only clergy and women refrain from Lust, and almost all men of church fall into Pride. Female characters, in the end, tend to fall into either Envy or Greed). > There's actually been a loooong tradition, in oD&D products and articles, > of taking coy references to other fantasy/scifi settings, cameos by IRL > historical or fictional characters, and "gag" settings like most of Gaz4 > Ierendi -- not to mention some HORRIBLE puns! ;-D -- with a grain of salt. Is Ierendi a comical setting like Glantri? (In Glantri there are also some *GREAT* gags, like the slightly ornithopter-ish "flying gargoyle" for Mass Dragon Slaughter, and the Glantri Vice ("Raise your hands and drop your wands")). IMC I tend to use such humour very much, for example I have this GlanCom-system (that I explained earlier) beeping just like BabCom in B5... And IMC the holy symbol of Rad is the radiation-warning symbol. > If you don't like using 'em because they're anachronisms, it's not too hard > to write such things out of the adventures; otherwise, let the players > groan about "Pawcester" or "finger nails" for a minute, then laugh and go > on with the game. :-) They work in a funny setting, but not in a grave serious ethical problematism. - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 19:21:23 EST From: BoBoII@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves of Mystara In a message dated 1/20/99 6:15:18 PM, you wrote: <> do you know the issue numbers you refer to here? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 20:43:24 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves of Mystara >In a message dated 1/20/99 6:15:18 PM, you wrote: > ><they are "warrior-elves" from the Hollow World, or you're using optional >rules from Bruce Heard's "Princess Ark" articles >> > >do you know the issue numbers you refer to here? Not off the top of my head, but someone else mentioned them a couple of days ago and might know. It's the article about one of the two "Gaul" nations, Eusdria or Robrenn ... I forget which. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 00:55:48 -0500 From: Jerry Hovenanian Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - United Criers Guild (long) On Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:56:04 PST "Jennifer Favia" wrote... >I had always wondered how reasonably to play >out the "What the PCs Can Do" parts of Wrath, but I >never understood how they could be involved in more >than one storyline during the course of the war, travel >being what it is...And how the heck they could even >appreciate the scope of the war, if they knew nothing >beyond their local area. This solves the problem! Great >work. This also works later in the almanacs. >We have an NPC, actually, who is a reporter-type, but >I've never filled in *how* she gets her information >outside of Traladara...Is the Guild up for grabs? It >would fit nicely! Use it in good health...e-mail me anything you make for it I'll try to fit it in when I publish it on-line. Glad you liked it :) On Fri, 15 Jan 1999 21:41:31 -0500 Sharon Dornhoff wrote... >Dateline CNN ... Mystara style! I like it! :-D Can't you just hear James Earl Jones..."This is UCG" and yes, I named the guild so the acronym had 3 letters :) On Sat, 16 Jan 1999 01:12:52 EST Nurvel@aol.com wrote.... >Sounds kewl dude........Do you have a webpage? Not yet Mike....but soon...I have a vacation coming ;) Well I'm glad others liked it. Is there any interest in the UCG Timeline??? Jerry Hovenanian *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 00:57:44 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquatic origins of humanoids (was Aquas) In a message dated 1999-01-20 16:52:51 Eastern Standard Time, dornhoff@bio.umass.edu writes: > [* - Question: What do nixies call Protius, anyway...? Everyone else calls > him the "Old-(male of our species)-In-The-Sea", but there ARE no such > things as male nixies!] In PC 3 they seem to refer to him simply as "Manwara", with no other titles given. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 00:57:47 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquatic origins of humanoids (was Aquas) In a message dated 1999-01-20 14:20:06 Eastern Standard Time, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no writes: > Humans should rather be descendants of > the Garls who remained on land. IMO ofcourse. The only problem with that is that it either leaves humans and merfolk completely unrelated or requires that the merfolk evolve from humans and not vice versa. Of course, that is the simplest explanation.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 00:57:46 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquatic origins of humanoids (was Aquas) In a message dated 1999-01-20 16:52:51 Eastern Standard Time, dornhoff@bio.umass.edu writes: > Here, I'd be more inclined to have Protius create the merrow and kna as two > fully-aquatic races; while cetaceans and ichthyosaurs may have returned to > a marine existence IRL, no land animal's ever gone so far as to start > breathing water again. That was the tricky part of my hypothesis -- if you wish for humans to be descended from the merfolk (a feature suggested in the message that I posted my hypothesis in reply to) but retain the belief that humans are related to land animals, then at some point an air breathing creature must evolve into (or be magically changed into) a water breathing creature. However, your later suggestion of including some AD&D creatures provides an alternative evolutionary path that leaves fewer survivors (at least on the outer world of Mystara). The original aquatic garls evolved into the race known on other worlds as the merrow or aquatic ogre, and they in turn evolved into the koalinths, from whom the merfolk evolved. Perhaps Ka saw that the garls were about to be driven into extinction and decided to save those that he did not transport to the Hollow World by turning them into water breathers. The koalinths and aquatic ogres eventually became extinct, although the standard Immortal policy would all but guarantee that they have enclaves in the Hollow World. Despite their names and descriptions, the koalinths (aquatic hobgoblins) and merrow (aquatic ogres) would be completely unrelated to their land dwelling counterparts. Scrags (aquatic trolls) could have been bred from aquatic ogres by triton wizards of high intelligence but low wisdom. Eventually the tritons would have driven these trolls out of the water onto land, where they interbred with the beastmen and became ancestors to normal trolls. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 00:57:41 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquatic origins of humanoids (was Aquas) In a message dated 1999-01-20 17:52:57 Eastern Standard Time, ferro@Princeton.EDU writes: > No, Air Alphatians are descendents of Avians (Faenare?)... :-) Then what sort of creatures are the Fire Alphatians (Flaems/Cypri) descended from? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 01:10:35 -0500 From: Jerry Hovenanian Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Rulers Great Work Jenn....It is now canon IMC. Jerry Hovenanian *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 01:49:02 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - RE:Aquas In a message dated 1999-01-20 12:26:39 Eastern Standard Time, eand@WPI.EDU writes: > On Tue, 19 Jan 1999, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: > > > doesn't say anything about the marine races -- probably because "Sea > > Peoples" was published later, so nothing was yet known about them -- or > > It was? I remember getting PC3 about a week before HW, BUT.. my local > hobbytown may have been screwy.. Well, they both have a copyright date of 1990 -- which means that they were planned on the same product schedule. I would have to locate the Dragon magazine issues from that year to determine which one came out first. Still, since we can suppose that the races of Undersea also exist in the Hollow World, it is not too difficult to guess their characteristics down there: Aquatic Elves: Most (those with intelligence of 15-) are "warrior elves". Kna, Merfolk, Sea Giant, Shark-kin: These races are unchanged except for the fact that spellcasters are rarer. Kopru, Nixies: These races might lose their charm powers. Tritons: Since some members of this race must have Int 15- and Wis 15-, there must be a "warrior triton" option similar to the "warrior elf" option. XP requirements would be about half those of a cleric/mage, once the triton XP table as a whole is cleaned up. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 01:48:58 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves vs. Magical Beings...... In a message dated 1999-01-20 10:38:55 Eastern Standard Time, au998@freenet.carleton.ca writes: > Sadly so. I just disregard the whole thing about magic dying, and focus > on making my campaign enjoyable. That attitude was depressing IMO - the > whole "magic-is-going-to-fade-away-and-leave-humans-everywhere" doctrine, > combined with the "elves-will-leave-the-world-en-masse-for-paradise" > prediction. Fr did it with Evermeet, Tolkien did it, who else? An interesting variant might be to run a campaign on the world that is destined to become the "paradise" that the elves are all destined to migrate to -- but first the elves have to eliminate all of the "inferior" shorter lived races. The humans and dwarves cheerfully help the elves eliminate the goblins, orcs, and other "evil" races -- but eventually the day will come when the elves turn on their "allies". And in this world the elves will be most formidable, as they are continually being reinforced from other worlds -- and not by first level types but by old and powerful wizard-lords. The later in the history of this world you go, the more desperate the situation of the non-elven races becomes. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 01:48:59 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves of Mystara In a message dated 1999-01-20 17:15:18 Eastern Standard Time, dornhoff@bio.umass.edu writes: > As a rule, Mystara products like to emphasize the cultural differences > between different groups of elves, dwarves, etc, not the physical ones. > Thus, Mystara has many elven cultures, but only two groups -- the surface > elves and the shadow/Schattenalfen elves -- could really be considered > "subraces" ... at least to the degree that AD&D worlds divide their elves > into categories. You forgot the aquatic elves -- they would constitute at least a third subrace. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 01:49:01 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves In a message dated 1999-01-20 17:45:44 Eastern Standard Time, brizio@lunet.it writes: > At 11.52 19/01/99 -0500, SteelAngel wrote: > > >Not quite. In WoTI, it specifically states that magical races - Elves, > >dragons, etc.. are weakened. > > Does it list also: dwarves, halflings...? Or just elves, dragons and etc.? Elves are the only race specifically named. > >Therefore Elves are magical, irregardless of what magics they use. > > Ok. But we're back to the starting point. > This discussion started when I said: "why does WotI consider elves a > magical race?". > The answer can't be: "They're magical because WotI says so" :-)W Well, my theory is the universality of their talent. Other affected races should include all of the fairy races as well as tritons, nixies, pegataurs, dragons, N'djatwa, gremlins, faenare, harpies, sphinxes, nagpa, and tabi - -- all races that have a universal talent for some sort of spellcasting. By "universal" I mean that any individual of this race who reaches sufficient level and then attempts to learn magic will succeed in doing so -- which is not true of most of the other "mundane" races. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 01:48:54 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves In a message dated 1999-01-20 09:23:24 Eastern Standard Time, piu2014@ccrd200.cdc.polimi.it writes: > Then pureblood alphatians should also be considered "magical beings". Maybe they are. Remember that many of them died when the magic failed -- but most thought it was the result of their magically extended lifespans. And remember that magical talent had become rare even among "pureblooded" Alphatians on Mystara by the time of WotI -- so only the older Alphatians qualified as "magical beings". *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 09:39:43 +0100 (MET) From: Agathokles Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves On Wed, 20 Jan 1999, Frederic Ferro wrote: > > > Agathokles wrote: > > >I don't think that magic keeps a 50 years old dwarf equivalent to a 20 > > >years old human: even though magic had altered the aging process of > > >dwarves, they are now completely non magical. Dwarves are natural in > > >Mystara as humans in RW. > > But there may be something magical (and not cultural) about > Halfling and Dwarves' inability to do magic? :-) > In AD&D probably yes, as magic item tend to fail when used by dwarves. However, as the inability does not concern priestly magic, or the ability to use or craft special magic items, I would think it is a cultural bias, added to a low general magic ability (but not so lower than that of the common M-human). Giampaolo Agosta *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 04:08:40 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment In a message dated 1/20/99 4:44:33 PM Central Standard Time, brizio@lunet.it writes: << >Who are Kanafasti and Garafaele Galeifel.......just curious.. Radiant Mage and Radiant General of the Shadow Elves. This means that Kanafasti is the royal SE mage, while Garafaele is the leader of the SE army. >> I found the stats for them right after asking......... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 04:11:06 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment In a message dated 1/20/99 5:08:22 PM Central Standard Time, solmyr@kolumbus.fi writes: << >Of course its natural that they can have any alignment, but societies as a >whole tend to share the same alignment. I had to know because from what I >have read, they could all be considered evil (in the eyes of other Mystarans). Well, as a society I think they are LN. Tanadaleyo and her friend Kanafasti are chaotic fellows because they don't really like the current shaman- dominated system and seek to topple it. >Who are Kanafasti and Garafaele Galeifel.......just curious.. Kanafasti is the Radiant Wizard (basically Telemon's court wizard). Garafaele Galeifel is the Radiant General (commander of armies). >> Thank you........Finally someone just reached the same comclusion that I did. Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 04:13:58 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves of Mystara In a message dated 1/20/99 6:28:35 PM Central Standard Time, BoBoII@aol.com writes: << <> do you know the issue numbers you refer to here? >> i dont have the Gazeteer for The Elves of Alfhiem, but I bet that it has rules for Elves to be more than just F/Ms ........Mike P.S. i do still love the idea though that most elves are magically gifted...just some choose to do other things.....like being Rangers.......we are talking about elves right *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 04:21:38 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves vs. Magical Beings...... Well i just run my campaign without worrying about all this hypothetical stuff. Basically elves are elves, yes, so to using Mystara. They are mostly magicians of some sort whether it be single class or multi-classed. Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 03:31:59 -0700 From: Peter Gnanapragasam <51130460@3web.net> Subject: [MYSTARA] - Elven Kin Hi: I would like to know which race is the closest kinred of the elves... if there is one? e.g. Dwarves & Gnomes TIA Peter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 06:38:08 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gags Markus Olavi Montola wrote: > > Well, IIRC there's been quite a few Known World products that have overt > > borrowings from IRL mythology or history (not to mention Elfquest or bad > > Yes, but principal sins of the christian god are way too weird for a > Glantrian mage (f.ex.) to obey, and in the Festival, sinners literally go > to Hell. And that's why it would be even more deadly for Mystaran > characters. > > Hell, even players playing monks or priests in that scenario usually end > up paying for their sins... (The idea is a week before Easter in a French > rural village. Every day one of the people in village is tempted with a > deadly sin, who goes around trying to corrupt people in it, and those who > clearly fall into sins, are judged rather harshly on Friday... In > addition to other sins, usually only clergy and women refrain from Lust, > and almost all men of church fall into Pride. Female characters, in the > end, tend to fall into either Envy or Greed). I'm boggled. I'm not sure what you are saying. Could you clarify? And by the way, Christian God is capitalized. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 13:20:15 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elven Kin On Thu, 21 Jan 1999, Peter Gnanapragasam wrote: > I would like to know which race is the closest kinred of the elves... if > there is one? I once made the hypthesis that the Hin (Halflings) are closely related to elves. If you look at the migration maps from HW boxed set or CoM, the halflings appear on Davania, just when the elves pass by en route to Brun. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 14:28:36 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves of Mystara > << < they are "warrior-elves" from the Hollow World, or you're using optional > i dont have the Gazeteer for The Elves of Alfhiem, but I bet that it has rules > for Elves to be more than just F/Ms ........Mike P.S. i do still love the (I don't have it either, but I know that) Alfheim rules that for the first 10 levels they are f/m:s, and after that they must choose which of the two they want to advance, and which one stays at the 10th level ability. Shadow Elves (btw) are either f/m:s or f/m/c:s, though they have their limitations with all of three. > idea though that most elves are magically gifted...just some choose to do > other things.....like being Rangers.......we are talking about elves right We are talking 'bout D&D. Not Rulemonster. We have these four things that humans do -- fighting, praying, casting and stealing. Elf can be a ranger, certainly, but his statistics are still the same. - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 08:04:55 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel In a message dated 1/20/99 5:33:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, brizio@lunet.it writes: << >The fact that Atzanteotl is their second favorite Immortal would be >evidence of some sort of evil tendencies. If there were more "heretic" >shadow elves who followed Immortals like Ordana or Eiryndul, I >might think otherwise. >> He wasn't their second favorite. Soon after he pushed the SE living in the floating city to blood sacrifice, they rebelled and he drove them away so more suitable followers would set up shop, like orcs and trolls. Arminath *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 08:08:09 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves In a message dated 1/20/99 5:36:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, brizio@lunet.it writes: << I don't think that magic keeps a 50 years old dwarf equivalent to a 20 >years old human: even though magic had altered the aging process of >dwarves, they are now completely non magical. Dwarves are natural in >Mystara as humans in RW. >> Who said magic enhanced their lifespans? If I remember my Dwarven Creation correctly, Kaygar fashioned the modern dwarves from the earth and granted them life. IMHO the dwarves lifespans reflect the root of their creation - the eternal earth and stone, even if they are short and small tempered. Arminath *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 08:13:52 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment The whole problem is that we're all trying to put modern values of a human world into a fantasy world with nonhuman creatures...The SE as a race are Lawful Neutral. No matter what Rafiel is, the race is following a strict doctrine in order to survive. They don't force their ways on their underground neighbors and aren't looking for conquest, except where the surface tree huggers are trying to keep them from. Try walking in the SE's shoes for a few years and maybe you'll see their point of view. Arminath *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 08:18:01 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves In a message dated 1/20/99 5:55:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, ferro@Princeton.EDU writes: << ut there may be something magical (and not cultural) about Halfling and Dwarves' inability to do magic? :-) >> Maybe for the halflings, but I'd say that dwarves are resistant to alot of things because they were moulded from the most unchanged substance around: the earth. You can move it, smash it, change it's shape, but you can never change it's makeup, it'll always be what it is: earth and stone. So to are the dwarven folk and their outlook on life. Arminath *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #19 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, January 22 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 020 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves vs. Magical Beings...... Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves Re: [MYSTARA] - RE:Aquas Re: [MYSTARA] - RE:Aquas Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves vs. Magical Beings...Divine Right! Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves vs. Magical Beings...Divine Right! Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves of Mystara [MYSTARA] - Simplicity vs. complicity in games Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves vs. Magical Beings...Divine Right! RE: [MYSTARA] - Simplicity vs. complicity in games [MYSTARA] - Minaria (was elves v magic) Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Simplicity vs. complicity in games Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves vs. Magical Beings...Divine Right! Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Rulers Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 08:22:02 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment In a message dated 1/20/99 6:10:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, jdaly@friend.ly.net writes: << Not at all. Law is law. Its the root of "lawful". >> Yes, the root is undisputably what you say. But the "rules" and "laws" of a dictator are based on his ever-changing whims. Whim is the root of what chaos is; desires taken form with no restraint. Just because they're called "laws" doesn't mean they make a "lawful" society. Arminath *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 08:27:34 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves of Mystara In a message dated 1/20/99 7:28:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, BoBoII@aol.com writes: << In a message dated 1/20/99 6:15:18 PM, you wrote: <> do you know the issue numbers you refer to here? >> The issue that dealt with Bruce's rules for elves and Half-elves was Dragon #178 and the article on Winged Elves was issue #200. Arminath *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 08:34:31 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment In a message dated 1/21/99 4:13:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, Nurvel@aol.com writes: << Well, as a society I think they are LN. Tanadaleyo and her friend Kanafasti are chaotic fellows because they don't really like the current shaman- dominated system and seek to topple it. >> Why does that make them any less Lawful than the rest? I think you need to find out WHY they hate the system and WHAT they plan to do if they ever change it. If a Lawful Good Paladin and a Lawful Good Fighter were both on the trail of a criminal and they get to him at the same time, which is more justified to bring him in? Arminath *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 10:26:33 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves of Mystara Sharon wrote: >Not off the top of my head, but someone else mentioned them a couple of >days ago and might know. It's the article about one of the two "Gaul" >nations, Eusdria or Robrenn ... I forget which. Ah yes, Robrenn the Gaul nation, and Eusdria the Saxon Britain kingdom. The rules for elven clerics, paladins, and half elves appeared in Dragon 178, as did a fair share of info on those two nations. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 10:31:40 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves vs. Magical Beings...... KaviyD wrote: >An interesting variant might be to run a campaign on the world that is >destined to become the "paradise" that the elves are all destined to >migrate to -- but first the elves have to eliminate all of the "inferior" >shorter lived races. The humans and dwarves cheerfully help the elves >eliminate the goblins, orcs, and other "evil" races -- but eventually the >day will come when the elves turn on their "allies". And in this world >the elves will be most formidable, as they are continually being reinforced >from other worlds -- and not by first level types but by old and powerful >wizard-lords. The later in the history of this world you go, the more >desperate the situation of the non-elven races becomes. Now *this* is an interesting twist!! Imagine the irony of having humans being the failing, endangered race.... Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 11:15:09 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves On Wed, 20 Jan 1999, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > Does it list also: dwarves, halflings...? Or just elves, dragons and etc.? Nope. Elves are naturally a magical race. Ordana created them so. Not all Demi humans have to be innately magical - Note how basic dwarves are fighters, and basic halflings are fighters. Basic Elves are fighters and magic users. Every elf born can cast spells, and fight as well. Magic, then, must be a natural talent. Of course this only applies to oD&D Elves. But Those are the only ones that really count. Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 11:26:43 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - RE:Aquas >Kopru, Nixies: These races might lose their charm powers. > I don't think the SoP deprives monsters of their charm powers, if they're natural abilities rather than "spells". The sun-wight from the HW boxed set had a charm-gaze, like a vampire's, and didn't have any trouble using it in the Hollow World. Otherwise, the HW wouldn't be much of a monster-preserve, because any creature you put there which depended on a "banned" power for its survival would go extinct anyway. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 11:33:55 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - RE:Aquas >Well, they both have a copyright date of 1990 -- which means that they >were planned on the same product schedule. I would have to locate >the Dragon magazine issues from that year to determine which one came >out first. Okay, I might have gotten the exact release-dates reversed. Still, it's not surprising that the 2 designers didn't get the chance to cover each other's races/species. Both products -- HW and PC3 -- must've been in preparation at the same time, so presumably neither writer could've consulted the other's finished work, for information. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 11:46:14 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves >Who said magic enhanced their lifespans? If I remember my Dwarven Creation >correctly, Kaygar fashioned the modern dwarves from the earth and granted them >life. IMHO the dwarves lifespans reflect the root of their creation - the >eternal earth and stone, even if they are short and small tempered. > >Arminath Actually, if you check the Blackmoor modules, they strongly imply that the Blackmoor-era dwarves had a much LONGER lifespan (at least 500+ years) than do modern Rockhome dwarves! The HW boxed set says nothing about Kogolor lifespans, so they presumably also live that long. This also suggests that the HW timeline is mistaken about the Modrigswerg, as their extremely long lives would indicate they are related to the Kogolors, instead of to Rockhome dwarves. My guess would be that, while their lifespans were enviable, the Blackmoor-era dwarves also took whole centuries to reach maturity and start to have children ... which is a serious disadvantage, if a population is to recover its losses rapidly after a GRoF-style catastrophe. Kagyar must've deliberately SHORTENED the lifespans of "his" dwarves, in order to let them breed faster. As living for centuries in a radioactive wasteland merely gives you more of a chance to pick up harmful isotopes from the environment, he knew that the original dwarven lifespans should logically be sacrificed for the sake of the Rockhome dwarves' resiliancy and hardiness. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 12:47:54 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves In a message dated 1/21/99 11:48:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, dornhoff@bio.umass.edu writes: << Actually, if you check the Blackmoor modules, they strongly imply that the Blackmoor-era dwarves had a much LONGER lifespan (at least 500+ years) than do modern Rockhome dwarves! The HW boxed set says nothing about Kogolor lifespans, so they presumably also live that long. This also suggests that the HW timeline is mistaken about the Modrigswerg, as their extremely long lives would indicate they are related to the Kogolors, instead of to Rockhome dwarves. My guess would be that, while their lifespans were enviable, the Blackmoor-era dwarves also took whole centuries to reach maturity and start to have children ... which is a serious disadvantage, if a population is to recover its losses rapidly after a GRoF-style catastrophe. Kagyar must've deliberately SHORTENED the lifespans of "his" dwarves, in order to let them breed faster. As living for centuries in a radioactive wasteland merely gives you more of a chance to pick up harmful isotopes from the environment, he knew that the original dwarven lifespans should logically be sacrificed for the sake of the Rockhome dwarves' resiliancy and hardiness. >> That's the difference between haves and have nots. Thanks for the correction once again Sharon! I think I need to cajole my player into getting back items so the rumors I've learned over the centuries can be parted until the truth remains! Arminath *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 13:01:04 EST From: BoBoII@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves vs. Magical Beings...Divine Right! In a message dated 99-01-21 10:32:27 EST, you write: << Now *this* is an interesting twist!! Imagine the irony of having humans being the failing, endangered race.... >> Anyone remember Divine Right, by TSR. In that, the elvish lands were in recovery from a time when, under a Napoleon-like leader, they had spread out in a wave of "We the Superior Beings" inspired conquest, and it took the combined power of several races and nations stop them. The irony of this was that in defeating them, the other races sacked their capital, and much "Ancient Elvish Wisdom" was lost. Divine Right had a great map and flavor text, and I used it as a setting for a DnD campaign before all the Known world got developed. It was a easy convert and I used all the Dragon Magazine articles to help. Anyone else try this? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 15:50:19 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves of Mystara In a message dated 1/21/99 6:30:45 AM Central Standard Time, mmontola@cc.hut.fi writes: << We are talking 'bout D&D. Not Rulemonster. We have these four things that humans do -- fighting, praying, casting and stealing. Elf can be a ranger, certainly, but his statistics are still the same. - Markus >> I'd hate to tell you I was talking about AD&D, it's not that bad. Maybe to complex for some. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 15:56:55 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves vs. Magical Beings...Divine Right! >Anyone remember Divine Right, by TSR. In that, the elvish lands were in >recovery from a time when, under a Napoleon-like leader, they had spread out >in a wave of "We the Superior Beings" inspired conquest, and it took the >combined power of several races and nations stop them. The irony of this was >that in defeating them, the other races sacked their capital, and much >"Ancient Elvish Wisdom" was lost. > >Divine Right had a great map and flavor text, and I used it as a setting for a >DnD campaign before all the Known world got developed. It was a easy convert >and I used all the Dragon Magazine articles to help. Anyone else try this? Hmm. I never heard of this game. Do you remember when it was published? Was it a board game or tactical-style game (ie: wargame), or was it an adventure for D&D/AD&D? Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 13:19:34 PST From: "matthew nash" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves >> Of course the problem with any race having inherent >> Mage abilities is that some will either refuse to >> develop their abilities beyond first level or (worse >> yet) refuse to develop their native talent. I think >> it may be the talent that makes the difference: i think you're wrong there, i think that casting spells to an elf is almost as easy as talking. even am infant can channel magical energies, but to no effect. >> 100% of all elves have the talent to become wizards. >> Some (those who were born in the Hollow World and have >> intelligence of less than 16) are initially unable to >> develop that talent, while others fail or refuse to do >> so for various reasons. i don't have HW stuff, so i'm only talking about surface elves. i think that some elves may not use their magic knowlege, but all elves know a first level spell or two >Then pureblood alphatians should also be considered "magical beings". >IMO, magical creature should be only those "powered" by magic, like >undeads, those of the fairy-tales kind (faeries, brownies, pixies, >nixies... but you can include also elves and even unicorns) and dragons. even on alphatia prime alot of people just couldn't cast spells, and i think it still took great effort to learn to master magic. magic use comes so easily to elves that they can cast spells in platemail. my take on it was that magic is like oxygen to elves, although the effect aren't quite as sudden, you take the magic away and they slowly suffocate >> Of course, life span would have a similar effect. >> A 50 year old dwarf or a 30 year old halfling >> adventurer would lose some stamina and agility >> if the magic that made him the equivalent of a >> 20 year old human failed -- but a 110 year old >> elf would be in real trouble. i think that their age wasn't effected but dwarves and halflings lost their increased resistances. Giggles P.S. this is all OD&D rules, so all you advanced players ignore all that i say ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 17:53:59 EST From: EzJ25@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves of Mystara In a message dated 1/21/99 3:59:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, Nurvel@aol.com writes: << I'd hate to tell you I was talking about AD&D, it's not that bad. Maybe to complex for some. >> It's not a complexity thing, just a personal choice. I happen to like the OD&D game better, and the fact that it only *requires* 1 book and not 3 (at the minimum) makes it even more attractive. Arminath *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 02:00:37 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: [MYSTARA] - Simplicity vs. complicity in games > << We are talking 'bout D&D. Not Rulemonster. We have these four things that > humans do -- fighting, praying, casting and stealing. > I'd hate to tell you I was talking about AD&D, it's not that bad. Maybe to > complex for some. Alfheim is a OD&D supplement -- old one. And as you brought up the subject; I think that one of the few great advantages of the D&D system is the very simplicity of it. After playing RQ for years and watching in horror people creating characters for Gurps and Rulemonster, I came to appreciate simplicity -- it leaves way for common logic. That is: if a player wants his character to be also an adept carpenter, it's perfectly fine with me. It's no use to put him spend his points (or whatever) on Carpenter-skill, if the player has a vision, why not let him fulfill it? Tragic example from Hârn concerned a character who was a carpenter. He had a boring day, and so he decided to fetch some wood and carve it into something of use. I believe that it was to be a spoon. He tried several times to carve a spoon (he was a pro, after all) but failed all his skill rolls, and so had to start over again. Finally he fumbled his roll, cut into his thumb, got an infection and died. I don't know if we learned anything from the story (which was far from Mystara), but I _LIKE_ simplicity of D&D. - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 19:26:44 EST From: Mystaros@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves vs. Magical Beings...Divine Right! In a message dated 99-01-21 13:03:27 EST, BoBoII@aol.com writes: << Divine Right had a great map and flavor text, and I used it as a setting for a DnD campaign before all the Known world got developed. It was a easy convert and I used all the Dragon Magazine articles to help. Anyone else try this? >> Yep, I did... Minaria had such an incredible "High Fantasy" feel that I could not but try to do it. I had always wished for Divine Right! novels... I wonder if TSR/WotC still owns the rights?... hmmm... Mystaros *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 08:46:11 +0800 From: Murphy Jason Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Simplicity vs. complicity in games Amen to simplicity. The group I play with (apart from the odd dungeon brawler player) Have always preferred well thought out and rounded characters. These sorts of characters, where a lot of the traits are not constricted by rules and such lend themselves much better to a good story based game, and in fact make a GM's job much easier as he can better prepare adventures for a characters that has a more set personality and character background. I havent come across an RPG rule set that can really quantify a character totally. Those that try, just get bogged down in complex rules. This slows the game up, lessens enjoyment etc. OD&D keeps things simple. By the way, has anyone ever played a game called Aftermath. Now there is a hellish rule set. I did have a few good games of it. But it really required all players to know almost the entire rule set. Where as OD&D can really be played with only one person knowing the whole lot, the GM, and the players only needing a passing knowledge. Jason Murphy Software Engineer MITS Limited EMAIL:  HYPERLINK mailto:jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au PHONE: 08 9481 4066 FAX: 08 9481 4064 -----Original Message----- From: Markus Olavi Montola [SMTP:mmontola@cc.hut.fi] Sent: Friday, January 22, 1999 8:01 AM To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Simplicity vs. complicity in games > << We are talking 'bout D&D. Not Rulemonster. We have these four things that > humans do -- fighting, praying, casting and stealing. > I'd hate to tell you I was talking about AD&D, it's not that bad. Maybe to > complex for some. Alfheim is a OD&D supplement -- old one. I don't know if we learned anything from the story (which was far from Mystara), but I _LIKE_ simplicity of D&D. - Markus - ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H - ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 19:49:38 EST From: BoBoII@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Minaria (was elves v magic) In a message dated 1/21/99 4:59:31 PM, you wrote: <> Divine Right was a board game made in the early eighties. Each player represented a country (including an elvish forest land, Dwarvish Mountain castles, Zorn! (the goblin kingdom) and a scattered confederation of Trolls ) in a fantasy-themed continent of Minaria, and through diplomatic action to gain allies and destroy the other players alliances, in an effort to crush his enemies. But the game also involved mechanics for utilizing powerful magical forces, finding artifacts to help your cause, and hire special Mercenary units (from the Gorpin Woodsmen and Ozerg Mountaineers, who are just troops with a terrain movement bonus, to Undead flying knights and a Sea serpent.) and in the advanced game two of the world powers were magical. What was so cool, was that inserted in the rules to this simple war game was a great deal of flavor text, presaging modern RPG publication by about 10 years. The map had locations marked that had no effect on play, but made things fun. This was such a hit, that early issues of Dragon Magazine included a series of articles that established the history of Minaria country by country and Special merc by Special merc, with tons of detail. Some of these were eventually turned into "optional Divine right" rules. I used a lot of this material to run a DnD and ADnD game set in the world of Divine Right for my brother and some friends who knew the board game. It was an example of one of those great times when we all knew the history of the game universe without having read a lot of modules/supplements to learn it (thus becoming rules lawyers and losing the secrets. The game has been out of print for a long time, but would be my vote for a game for Wizards to reprint as part of their 25th anniversary celebration/sales-scam. It was made in 1979 by Glenn & Kenneth Rahman. And now that i think about, many elements of the game world found their way into Mystara (Cataclysm, The Isle of Fright, etc.) Any one else remember this little gem? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 20:44:17 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves of Mystara On Thu, 21 Jan 1999 EzJ25@aol.com wrote: > It's not a complexity thing, just a personal choice. I happen to like the > OD&D game better, and the fact that it only *requires* 1 book and not 3 (at > the minimum) makes it even more attractive. But not only that, the materials, IMHO are of much better quality. Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 20:46:13 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Simplicity vs. complicity in games On Fri, 22 Jan 1999, Markus Olavi Montola wrote: > something of use. I believe that it was to be a spoon. He tried several > times to carve a spoon (he was a pro, after all) but failed all his skill > rolls, and so had to start over again. Finally he fumbled his roll, cut > into his thumb, got an infection and died. oD&D skills allow automatic successes in cases where the skill use was trivial, (i.e. whittling a spoon, or tracking an ogre through newfallen snow.) Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 23:10:39 EST From: BoBoII@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves vs. Magical Beings...Divine Right! Will have to start the Minaria Mailing List!! All Hail Her Majesty Unno the Uncomely, Queen of Hothior! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 21:22:21 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Rulers > Great Work Jenn....It is now canon IMC. Thanks Jerry! (And thanks to everyone for the comments!) Jenn Explore Dark Myst Manor! http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 08:43:49 +0100 (MET) From: Agathokles Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves On Thu, 21 Jan 1999, matthew nash wrote: > >> Of course the problem with any race having inherent > >> Mage abilities is that some will either refuse to > >> develop their abilities beyond first level or (worse > >> yet) refuse to develop their native talent. I think > >> it may be the talent that makes the difference: > > i think you're wrong there, i think that casting spells to an elf is > almost as easy as talking. even am infant can channel magical energies, > but to no effect. > > >> 100% of all elves have the talent to become wizards. > >> Some (those who were born in the Hollow World and have > >> intelligence of less than 16) are initially unable to > >> develop that talent, while others fail or refuse to do > >> so for various reasons. > > i don't have HW stuff, so i'm only talking about surface elves. > > i think that some elves may not use their magic knowlege, but all elves > know a first level spell or two > [..] > my take on it was that magic is like oxygen to elves, although the > effect aren't quite as sudden, you take the magic away and they slowly > suffocate > [..] > Giggles > > P.S. this is all OD&D rules, so all you advanced players ignore all that > i say > If you want to extend this to AD&D, give all elves the ability to use cantrips as a proficiency (for free or for a low price) Giampaolo Agosta *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #20 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, January 22 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 021 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Simplicity vs. complicity in games RE: [MYSTARA] - Simplicity vs. complicity in games Re: [MYSTARA] - Simplicity vs. complicity in games Re: [MYSTARA] - Simplicity vs. complicity in games [MYSTARA] - Question about OD&D books.... Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves [MYSTARA] - Complicity. Simplicity. Whatever. RE: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves [MYSTARA] - Complex. Simplex. Same thread. Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves Re: [MYSTARA] - Complicity. Simplicity. Whatever. Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about OD&D books.... Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquas [MYSTARA] - Infravision [MYSTARA] - Maps of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Infravision [MYSTARA] - Gazetteers Poll Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Simplicity vs. complicity in games RE: [MYSTARA] - Simplicity vs. complicity in games Re: [MYSTARA] - Minaria (was elves v magic) Re: [MYSTARA] - Gazetteers Poll [MYSTARA] - Apocalypse Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves Re: [MYSTARA] - Gazetteers Poll ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 03:27:21 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves Do elves need spellbooks to cast their spells? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 03:31:23 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves of Mystara In a message dated 1/21/99 5:00:19 PM Central Standard Time, EzJ25@aol.com writes: << It's not a complexity thing, just a personal choice. I happen to like the OD&D game better, and the fact that it only *requires* 1 book and not 3 (at the minimum) makes it even more attractive. >> I guess your right. I thought about playing OD&D again but I cant get my hands on most of the books, and the fact that things are just WAY to basic. Are there no thieves in any elven or dwarven societies, that just makes no sense. Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 03:34:34 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Simplicity vs. complicity in games Thats all good. I didnt mean to hit any bad spots, just being facetious thats all. It is cool but the classes are too basic, otherwise. Go for it .......Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:39:39 +0100 From: Kristian Kramer Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Simplicity vs. complicity in games Hear, hear! Some people I know used to say that playing a RP-game with simple rules resulted in simple games. How foolish they were. Then we (two D&D GMs) showed them xD&D (mainly OD&D with just a hint of AD&D) and they were hooked. HAHAHAHAHA. That should teach 'em. They now say: "Simple games, allow for complex plots, because you have time to think about what's inside the adventure/campaign and not about the rules." We tought them well. :-) Kristian Kramer "Go for the eyes, Boo, go for the eyes." Markus wrote > And as you brought up the subject; I think that one of the few great > advantages of the D&D system is the very simplicity of it. After playing > RQ for years and watching in horror people creating characters for Gurps > Tragic example (...) from Hârn concerned a character who was a carpenter. > He > had a boring day, and so he decided to fetch some wood and carve it into > something of use. I believe that it was to be a spoon. He tried several > times to carve a spoon (he was a pro, after all) but failed all his skill > rolls, and so had to start over again. Finally he fumbled his roll, cut > into his thumb, got an infection and died. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 03:39:29 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Simplicity vs. complicity in games In a message dated 1/21/99 6:49:50 PM Central Standard Time, jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au writes: << By the way, has anyone ever played a game called Aftermath. Now there is a hellish rule set. I did have a few good games of it. But it really required all players to know almost the entire rule set. Where as OD&D can really be played with only one person knowing the whole lot, the GM, and the players only needing a passing knowledge. >> Not to get off the subject...... Has anyone ever played the game Alma Matter ...The High School RPG...Thats basic *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 03:42:19 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Simplicity vs. complicity in games In a message dated 1/21/99 7:47:04 PM Central Standard Time, eand@WPI.EDU writes: << oD&D skills allow automatic successes in cases where the skill use was trivial, (i.e. whittling a spoon, or tracking an ogre through newfallen snow.) >> So does any other game system, if you know how to be a good DM............. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 03:46:07 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Question about OD&D books.... If anyone can find me a good deal on some of the old books or just the rules cyclopedia...I will give it a shot again.......Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 03:47:57 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves In a message dated 1/22/99 1:46:04 AM Central Standard Time, piu2014@ccrd200.cdc.polimi.it writes: << If you want to extend this to AD&D, give all elves the ability to use cantrips as a proficiency (for free or for a low price) Giampaolo Agosta >> Thats a good idea.....Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:15:10 +0100 (MET) From: Agathokles Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves On Fri, 22 Jan 1999 Nurvel@aol.com wrote: > Do elves need spellbooks to cast their spells? Yes, both in AD&D and oD&D Giampaolo Agosta *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:28:01 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: [MYSTARA] - Complicity. Simplicity. Whatever. > Are there no thieves in any elven or dwarven societies, that just makes no > sense. The way I play it, there are no PC thieves in elven or dwarven societies. (Doesn't matter, because I play in Glantri and no non-spellcasters were allowed in the first place). Rules don't tend to limit my NPC:s. My players resented that in the beginning, but they have learned that rules are not made to restrict the story. - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:31:19 +0100 From: Kristian Kramer Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves Except when they come from the planet Krypton :-) Kristian Kramer > -----Original Message----- > From: Agathokles [SMTP:piu2014@ccrd200.cdc.polimi.it] > Sent: Friday, January 22, 1999 10:15 AM > To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves > > > > On Fri, 22 Jan 1999 Nurvel@aol.com wrote: > > > Do elves need spellbooks to cast their spells? > > Yes, both in AD&D and oD&D > > Giampaolo Agosta > > ************************************************************************** > * > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the > line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:39:45 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: [MYSTARA] - Complex. Simplex. Same thread. > > OD&D game better, and the fact that it only *requires* 1 book and not 3 (at > > the minimum) makes it even more attractive. > But not only that, the materials, IMHO are of much better quality. D&D was made for fun, AD&D for living. Latter has at least *some* professionality, but the former looks like written by people like you and me. I don't like the rules of AD&D; there are far too many restrictions. Like using 5000gps every time you shapechange or aging a year per being hasted. There are horrific rules in OD&D, but in my group, we tend to take them with humour. For example the rule that you can't teleport someone to a dangerous place, like two miles up, what's the point in that? Teleport should be a teleport and that's it. But if people do not stick to things like that but go on and try not to teleport goblins into heights, the system works. Systems restrict stories. Sadly. Even magic-user of the name level can beat a cheetah with a dagger and no spells. Bah. Conclusion: If you don't like them, don't use them. And another. High fantasy is _HIGH_, let your imagination fly and let the mighty wizards be truly mighty. - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 04:41:44 EST From: GlobalFrog@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves On Fri, 22 Jan 1999 Nurvel@aol.com wrote: >> Do elves need spellbooks to cast their spells?<< >Yes, both in AD&D and oD&D Giampaolo Agosta< Although the argument could be made that, being an inherently "magical" race as show in WotI (being affected by the week of no magic as they were), Elves should NOT need a spellbook because their understanding of magic is inherent to their very being. Note that I am not advocating this, simply stating that it is a possibility that might be looked into. cj *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 04:45:31 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Complicity. Simplicity. Whatever. In a message dated 1/22/99 3:29:41 AM Central Standard Time, mmontola@cc.hut.fi writes: << > Are there no thieves in any elven or dwarven societies, that just makes no > sense. The way I play it, there are no PC thieves in elven or dwarven societies. (Doesn't matter, because I play in Glantri and no non-spellcasters were allowed in the first place). Rules don't tend to limit my NPC:s. My players resented that in the beginning, but they have learned that rules are not made to restrict the story. - Markus >> No kidding. Anyone want to help me get my hands on the rules cyclopedia? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 05:35:38 -0500 From: Jerry Hovenanian Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about OD&D books.... On Fri, 22 Jan 1999 03:46:07 EST Nurvel@aol.com wrote... > If anyone can find me a good deal on some of the old books or just the rules > cyclopedia...I will give it a shot again.......Mike Sorry Mike can't help you much. I don't even play OD&D and would never part with my copy. If ever i needed War Machine there it is. Ever use battlesystem???....COMPLEX!!!! Then there is a map of the Known World in 8mi/hex and globe maps of the Outer and Hollow Worlds. You will have a hard time getting your hands on it. Jerry Hovenanian *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:51:23 +0100 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquas On Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:14:13 PST, "Jerry Hovenanian" wrote: <> Err.. you're right, I didn't think about the HW sun.. So you say the dome never disappeared cause three xxx-form spells create a permanent NON-MAGICAL structure, uh?.. But there's the problem of air (and it occurred me this morning, before reading the post..) << We are all forgeting one thing that gould have saved Aquas from suffication, the industrious little Gnomes who do not want to die. They could have used an undersea boat to get a air tube to the surface and used fans to get the air down or some other strange idea. Also I think there must have been some plan to evacuate the city in case of an emergency maybe to an under water cave because there is a cavern that the leviathan was hiding it so there might have been other large caverns near by.>> My second hypothesis after the artifact was that Aquas' depuration stations are not magical but gnomish. That's to say that the gnomes designed and built some vents and other strange contraptions which turn water pumped in into fresh air, also using some algae and water mosses in the process. This would have made Aquas the best place to be during the great upheaval of 1009 AC. Obviously there are some drawbacks with the gnomish air-system: the first and foremost being that it has to be permanently kept clean and carefully watched in order to keep it operative. The second one is that Aquas' air has a distinct salty smell, and while the Aquans themselves are used at it, foreigners usually find it rather distasteful for the first 24 hours. Third, the refined water produces some really interesting wastes: tons and tons of salt, which is store in special silos and traded to the surface nations in exchange for other luxuries and first need products. That's a possible solution, right? ;) DM Visit Marco's Mystara Homepage, home of the Mystara Webring: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 13:12:57 +0100 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Infravision On Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:11:44 -0500, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: <> Do you mean that a human mage polymorphed into an elf DOESN'T GET infravision? IMHO Infravision is a Natural ability of elves much like the cat's nightvision... <> WHAT? From what I remember (an article on Infravision on Dragon by Roger E. Moore), you CANNOT actually read with Infravision, but you can easily spot even the slightest trace of heat and using it "see" the surrounding area "lightened" by the heat source. But it's only a matter of shades of darkness, you cannot actually read anything nor clearly see the enemies' faces using infravision (think Predator). <> No, no, the infravision is less powerful than that. What you're describing is the NIGHTVISION, which is the ability to see in complete darkness (excluding magical one) as if it was clear daylight. To my knowledge, only UNDEAD possess this kind of vision, which is very powerful indeed and a thieves' bane! <> You think this last ability is magical or natural (physical)? I think it's magical, as you suggest, but only because it is gained with experience.. DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 13:27:37 +0100 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Maps of Mystara *Shameless Plug Mode On* Just to remind you all, dear listmembers, I've got a fairly extensive list and links of Mystaran maps in my site at this URL: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/maps.html Check it out whenever you want! *Shameless Plug Mode Off* ;) DM Marco's Mystara Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 06:46:42 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Infravision DM wrote: > > Do you mean that a human mage polymorphed into an elf DOESN'T GET > infravision? IMHO Infravision is a Natural ability of elves much like the > cat's nightvision... According to AD&D's polymorph self spell, a mage could become an owl but wouldn't get the owl's sight. - -- Timothy R. Haney galwylin@airnet.net The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 13:47:18 +0100 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Gazetteers Poll Hi guys! I was looking at my gaz yesterday and it occurred me that some of them are in terrible shape while others are almost near mint in condition, so I wanted to ask you: Which are the three gazetteers you used most and the one u used least? Remember that "using" a gaz can also mean peruse its rules and info without actually playing in that region with your gaming group (which happened to me with Glantri). Just to begin the thread, these are my entries. Most Used 1. GAZ11: Darokin (almost falling to pieces, I'm using sellotape to stick its part together! I'm currently translating it into Italian for the second time, this time in a decent format -the old one was made with a typewriter many eons ago..); 2. Thyatis (extensively used for its rules and the setting, including Isle of Dawn and Davania colonies); 3. GAZ4: Ierendi (big surprise here! I've actually changed my mind on this gaz in the last three months after staging a beautiful epic campaign in the isles of Ierendi and now one of my gaming companies is stationed here as the new Kia'i of the kingdom). Also, if there was a gaz of Norwold, I'd have placed it right below Darokin.. Least Used: Atruaghin: I've used more or less ALL the other gazetteers of the Known World, I've even used Sind, Alphatia and Ochalea -not used Yavdlom and the Karimari, but hey! ;)- but I haven't been able to put to use this one. It's even easier than using Bellayne (which I have done!) since it's closer to the KW, but no matter how I try, I've not been able to pull the PCs on the plateau.. not yet at least... The Five Shires come right after this one.. even though I enjoy hins, it's a hell difficult to make the PCs travel to "the contry of the little men"... :) Waiting for your experiences... DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 08:01:06 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves of Mystara In a message dated 1/22/99 3:32:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, Nurvel@aol.com writes: << I guess your right. I thought about playing OD&D again but I cant get my hands on most of the books, and the fact that things are just WAY to basic. Are there no thieves in any elven or dwarven societies, that just makes no sense. >> Mike, my group used some very simple and effective rules for multiclassing OD&D characters. Anyone want me to post them? Arminath *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 08:05:06 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Simplicity vs. complicity in games In a message dated 1/22/99 3:39:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, Kristian.Kramer@comsys.nl writes: << Kristian Kramer "Go for the eyes, Boo, go for the eyes." >> OMG!!! What a nut!!!! Arminath *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 14:17:41 +0100 From: Kristian Kramer Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Simplicity vs. complicity in games Don't flame me, flame yourself. > -----Original Message----- > From: Arminath@aol.com [SMTP:Arminath@aol.com] > Sent: Friday, January 22, 1999 2:05 PM > To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Simplicity vs. complicity in games > > In a message dated 1/22/99 3:39:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, > Kristian.Kramer@comsys.nl writes: > > << Kristian Kramer > "Go for the eyes, Boo, go for the eyes." >> > > OMG!!! What a nut!!!! > > Arminath > ************************************************************************** > * > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the > line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:49:23 -0500 (EST) From: Frederic Ferro Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Minaria (was elves v magic) BoBoII@aol.com wrote (about Minaria, the world of Divine Right): > It was made in 1979 by Glenn & Kenneth Rahman. And now that i think about, > many elements of the game world found their way into Mystara (Cataclysm, The > Isle of Fright, etc.) The "old cataclysm" was already used in Greyhawk (the Rain of Colourless Fire, the Twin Catastrophes), wasn't it? There are cataclysms in almost every fantasy setting. (The 2nd ed. DMG explicitly advises the DM to use such a disaster in his world to get "ruins & treasures" to loot) What was the first post-apocalyptic fantasy? Fred *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 08:06:57 -0700 (MST) From: John Hare Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gazetteers Poll Most Used 1. Gaz 3: Glantri, held together with tape & the map is falling apart. (Fortunately I have a second copy. :) 2. Gaz 11: Darokin (merchant tables being the primary usage) 3. Gaz 10: Orc of Thar (used hard :) Least Used Gaz 14: Atruaghin Gaz 8: Five Shires Gaz 4: Irendi "If death is inevitable, you might as well lie back and enjoy it." -Solomon Short _A Season for Slaughter_ John Hare *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 17:50:40 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: [MYSTARA] - Apocalypse > What was the first post-apocalyptic fantasy? Probably Middle-Earth. And there were a LOT of apocalypses there. :) - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:54:27 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves On Fri, 22 Jan 1999 Nurvel@aol.com wrote: > Do elves need spellbooks to cast their spells? What else are you going to memorize spells from? :) Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:49:31 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gazetteers Poll I thought I'd emerge from the witness protection program to respond to this one. My Gaz's are all in good condition (none falling apart or anything, though at this point I'm pondering getting a new copy of DotE because the maps are starting to show a bit of wear. Covers of the more frequently used ones show some scuffing, but that's about it), dispite getting a lot of use and some maltreatment (kept primarily in semi-random stacks of gaming materiels sorted by where I used them last). Somehow even most of the maps are in good shape. Based on frequency of usage: DotE/Thyatis/Alphatia - Anyone who remembers me knows this would rank highly on my list. Glantri - Of course. Minrothad Guilds - Trade Info, some info on the Guilds frequently looked up. Darokin - Ditto. Ierendi - Yah, the setting is "campy" but I don't mind (too much). Ierendi (and Minrothad) are modified in my campaign anyhow. I look up the naval info (port stuff especially) often though, and the Honor Island mages have played prominent roles in a few campaigns. Thar Gaz - Best info on how you should train your ballista fodder. . .er, troops. . .of all the Gaz's. The above ones are used near equally. Milenian Empire - The HW Gaz's are probably the best written & most complete. More "dificult" to use though because they are disconected from the KW. I like the Milenian one best because I like it best. Nithian - See above. Azcan - See above. The HW Gaz's are possibly the "forgoten gazeteers" in all this. Alfheim/Shadow Elves - lots of good info for campaigning in these places, used co-equally for near-obvious reasons. Ylaruam - some nice info. Rest in random order of frequency. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #21 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, January 22 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 022 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Elves vs. Magical Beings...... [MYSTARA] - Elven biology (long!!) Re: [MYSTARA] - Gazetteers Poll [MYSTARA] - Wizard's Duel Re: [MYSTARA] - Gazetteers Poll Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves vs. Magical Beings...... Re: [MYSTARA] - Infravision [MYSTARA] - Gazetteers Poll Re: [MYSTARA] - Infravision Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment Re: [MYSTARA] - Infravision Re: [MYSTARA] - Dawn of the Grand Council Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizard's Duel [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Birthright Re: [MYSTARA] - Gazetteers Poll Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Birthright [MYSTARA] - ? about the Rules Cyclopedia [MYSTARA] - WOTC Online Store Re: [MYSTARA] - Infravision Re: [MYSTARA] - WOTC Online Store Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 17:19:48 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E0=E9=EC=EF_=F9=E7=ED?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - Elves vs. Magical Beings...... I for one resent the thought that "magical creatures" include elves and the like. IMC I have a notion on elves that goes like this: Elves are a species close to humans (Homo Sylvanus if you want) that were found in the temperte forests of southern davania. Their first contact with the Immortals was with the Immortal Ordana their "forest mother" . Ordana cared for her followers and made a pact with the Fairies- MAGICAL beings that were fond of mortals and delighted in nursing them. At that time the most common form of fairy was the Pooka (from PC1) as they were kindered to the spirits of animals but in the following milennia fairies being shapeshifters adopted an appearence that mirrored the elves - thus becoming the sidhe pixies and sprites. Later on in time the fairies left the elves for themselves leaving them with the gift of magic use and carried of to bother the other mortal races changing agian in form to suit humans, halflings and the like (in PC1 becoming leprechauns and brownies) and even merfolk (nixies). Morphail (Ohad Shaham) "and all the while as vampires feed- I bleed..." /the Pixies *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 17:27:44 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E0=E9=EC=EF_=F9=E7=ED?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - Elven biology (long!!) I stumbled on an article I wrote a couple of years ago about elves for my campaign. I wonder what people would think of it as its certainly not canon. The article is available in word format if anyone wants it (e mail me privately). I appologies in advance for spelling and grammer misteaks as English is not my native tongue. here goes- Elven biology E lves are very close to humans on a biological level, but hey so are chimpanzees... Elves belong to the same genus as humans but not to the same specie, unlike Neanderthals (brut men) who are the same species, and so are Hin (halflings). Genetically elves are 99.8% similar to humans in this passage were going to discuss the remaining 0.2 percent. Appearance- E lves tend to be shorter than humans. This is true in most cases though often you can find elves reaching 1.8 meters in height (males and females) and even higher. Reduced height poses an advantage in the dense forest realms the elves come from therefore adult elves tend to be ranging from 1.4 to 1.7 meters (males and females are the same size). Elves who do not live in forested areas for long periods of time tend to grow higher then woodland elves. Elven bodies are more slender then humans and they weigh lower than the human norm for their height. However their muscles are still strong and they are not fragile as they seem. Elves do not have bodily hair. Nowhere. Elves have narrow faces with pointed ears (this is much more refined than some illustrations show. the ears are less pointed from Mr. Spoks) and hazel shaped eyes whose colour range from grey and silver through blue and green to violet. Brown eyes can be found but they are more rare. Hair changes according to subrace and tribe. While blond and golden tend to be more common in most cases some tribes are completely black haired. Old elves (and that's mighty old!) have white hair. Blue hair or greenish are legends that probably refer to some fairy race or to dryads. Senses- E lven ears have a different hearing range from humans. While human adults here noises from 400 to 20,000 hertz , elves here from 1000 to 30,000 hertz a slightly higher range. This is probably why elves speak in higher pitches than humans. Elves have an excellent sense of sight especially in close ranges. They separate colours better and therefore make better archers and hunters in forested areas when shades of green are the difference between a leaf and a meal of frog legs. I have a serious problem with infravision. In order to decipher infra red light the eyes of an elf should be very different. Snakes that do have infravision have special organs for that range of light instead of their regular eyes. Therefore IMC elves (end dwarfs and orcs and everyone) don't have infravision but rather have the natural ability to open their pupils larger (like cats) in order to gather more light. Therefore they can see in what seem to humans to be darkness but cant see in total absolute darkness. This comes as a disadvantage in places of extreme sunlight such as deserts and snow fields , as the pain to the eyes is terrible. Smell and taste are usually the same as humans though what elves and humans like to taste and smell is not always the same. Food and drink- T he elven diet is composed on less complex carbohydrates then humans and less protein from meat. Its not true that all elves are vegetarians or that they are repulsed by eating meat. Its just they need meat in different quantities than humans. Elves do eat a lot of simple sugars from sugar-cane berries and fruit , and they supplement it with the occasional insect fish, frogs and small mammals (usually rabbits) they also eat roots and mushrooms and some nutritious tree bark. Elves cook meat (again against rumours and legends) usually roasting it on open fire. Elves drink wine (only kind of alcohol they know) and tend to react to its effect the same way humans do. Sleeping- T his is a very sensitive subject. The elven biological clock works differently from the human one in almost every aspect. (see below). For one thing the active hours of elves are different. Elves are not nocturnal but there most active hours are from the after noon to midnight. Elves go to sleep around two hours before sunrise and wake up at noon (just like modern teenagers!) they sometime nap in the evening like humans do in the afternoon. The reason for this daily cycle is not known but it explains lots of the myths humans have about elves. For one thing, common human folk that live near elves think they are lazy and never work- that's not true - elves work, they just don't do it early in the morning like humans do. Another thing humans think about elves is that they have wild parties all night long (dancing in fairy rings and such) this is only partly true as elves tend to sit around the fire before they go to sleep talking singing and telling stories. Life cycle- E lves have extremely long life spans in the OD&D this is about 800 years and in the AD&D system up to 600 years IMC this is more complicated than this. While elves do have very long lives this doesn't mean their cycle of life is the same as humans. Elves grow up slightly slower than humans and when they mature they stay that way for a very long time before they age. Old elves don't suffer for the same illments that plague human elderly people but just the different illments they gathered through their long lives. Elves do not get wrinkles on their skin nor do their bodies become fragile or weak. Eventually they will suffer a normal disease and die. This is not considered as death of old age since elves do not fade away into death, they just die. Elven life cycle versus human life cycle: human years elven years babies 0-2 0-3 children 3-12 4-15 puberty 13-17 16-21 young adulthood (fertility) 18-28 21-70 adulthood 29-55 71-250 venerable 56-75 251- 350 death 75-100 350-550 Love and monogamy E lves usually start getting interested in the opposite sex during their young adult years. Elves form strong bonds with mates (the same way they do with members of their own gender) but this doesn't always lead to marriage. Elves are monogamous and never have relationships with more than one mate but the relationship is not permanent. Elves learned about the marriage custom from humans and use it to promise their loved ones they will stay with them forever. However elven couples are known to fall in love live together raise kids and then go on living single lives again- marriage is optional. Sexual relations W hile we have trouble understanding this complicated subject in our own society its even harder to try and understand sex in a completely different race. Elves have sex the same way humans (and most mammals) do, in the physical sense but they treat it in a different way. Elves enjoy sex less then humans. Elves are not slaves to their passions as we are and lots of them go through life (a very very long life!) without sex. Elves have less obvious sexual organs then humans, the male's penis is less thick and reaches only 10-14 cm, while the females vagina doesn't have clear outer parts. Both genders have absolutely no hair on their bodies , not even in places that serve as erogenous zones. Elves treat blind sexual passion as animalistic (in some way that is the main reason humans seem inferior to elves being "like animals" in behaviour). Elves don't treat nudity as indecent or always sex related but sexual relations of any kind are always done in privacy. Elves sometimes have sex with partners of the same gender this is concidered an act of strong love to that person. Elves do not consider these relations as having to do with dualitiy and don't understand how can one be solely attracted to his/hers own gender there arn't any elven homosexuals as such. Reproductive habits T his is the most puzzling aspect of elven biology. In evolutionary terms elves rate of reproduction is much too slow to allow the continuation of the specie. But evolution works different on creatures of magical essence and maybe the slow rate of reproduction is necessary to the *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 18:16:30 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gazetteers Poll > 1. Gaz 3: Glantri, held together with tape & the map is falling apart. > (Fortunately I have a second copy. :) > 2. Gaz 11: Darokin (merchant tables being the primary usage) > 3. Gaz 10: Orc of Thar (used hard :) 1. I have also Glantri breaking apart, and the map is broke in pieces so we had to tape them togethe. Now it is unfoldable, but rolls nicely. 2. Dawn of the Emperors is still in near-mint condition, though it is the second-most important Gaz to me. Handling it with love -- nearly all my gazes are bought used, so one thing in condition stays so. :) 3. Very close after DotE comes the Shadow Elves, which is truly magnificent book. Not nearly as magnificent as Glantri, but still a great work. Far better than DotE, at least. Least used... This is difficult... 1. Northern Reaches. Never been there, and the book is boring. Boring, because I have played in very similar setting for nine years now. In Glorantha, Runequest. 2. Ethengar gets good points. I bought it to know my foe, but I have never invented a plan to lure Glantrian mages into Ethengar. And the oddity of the lifestyle makes it a bit dull as well as hard to handle. Besides to get a Gent into a Yurt is.... (Atruaghin would get lots of points, but I don't have it). 3. Karameikos. I have criss-crossed the Grand Duchy aeons ago without having the Gazetteer. When I mastered dungeon adventures. I don't want to mess my vision with a Gaz, there, and the players have played in 'my Specularum' and in 'my Kelvin' etc. Well, I've never ever used my Sons of Azca and I doubt I ever will, but then again, it's not a Gazetteer. Kingdom of MAgic is also not a Gazetteer, and that's the second-most perused book I have. --=-- Why the Principalities of Glantri is best, then? 1. LOTS of NPC:s. The Web of Intrigue is complex, complicated and offers lots of chances for the PCs to become involved from level 5 to level 36. 2. Includes everything. The Melting Pot of Glantri includes miniatures of most of the known world countries, and even offers more cultures. The "Flamenco-Elves" and "The French" are both magnificent ideas. You can play Glantri just as odd as you wish. 3. Everything fits in. There is absolutely no plot in horror/fantasy/scifi/WorldofDarkness/Shadowrun/whatever that you (or at least I) couldn't include in Glantri, though slightly parodized. 4. Societies. In addition to more than 50 overviewed and about 50 mentioned NPC:s, there are dozens of cliques and societies after their own agendas. After GM has involved PC:s into all plots by characters (taking years of real world playing time), he has still the societies. 5. Adventure ideas -section. Three more years of intensive playing before GM needs to think. 6. Suits for all levels. The Great School of Magic -setting is truly great for low-level characters, and after they gain experience, there is no limit to greatness of the challenges ahead. 7. Serious changes with time. Kingdom of Magic adds the element of change into Glantri, tracing back every NPC in PoG except one. (Piotr-Grygory Timenko is apparently forgotten from KoM). If someone want's to contradict, please do it by praising other Gazes, not by beginning a flame-war on which gaz is the best. :) - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 18:21:27 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: [MYSTARA] - Wizard's Duel Does anyone have ideas of how to make a Glantrian Duel interesting intellectual gambit instead of being 'who sees the other first, casting a killer-spell against which the opponent didn't remember to prepare'-game. Now it's just lightning bolts one after another hoping that opponent died before I. ...Alphatian Duel to death is supposed to be something like that, but in Glantrian Duel (with hallucinatory terrains and invisible invincible monsters) might be more... role-playing, less dice-rolling. (One of my players will probably duel soon enough of Jherek Virayana's seat on council, with his stepmother Lan-Syn...) - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:31:19 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gazetteers Poll On Fri, 22 Jan 1999, John Hare wrote: > Most Used > 1. Gaz 3: Glantri, held together with tape & the map is falling apart. > (Fortunately I have a second copy. :) Augh!! hoarder!! Share the wealth!! *giggle* :) Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:34:27 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves vs. Magical Beings...... On Fri, 22 Jan 1999, [iso-8859-1] àéìï ùçí wrote: > Elves are a species close to humans (Homo Sylvanus if you want) that > were found in the temperte forests of southern davania. Their first > contact with the Immortals was with the Immortal Ordana their "forest > mother" Well, Ordana created the Elven race, more than just cared for them. Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:48:39 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Infravision >WHAT? From what I remember (an article on Infravision on Dragon by Roger E. >Moore), you CANNOT actually read with Infravision, but you can easily spot >even the slightest trace of heat and using it "see" the surrounding area >"lightened" by the heat source. Correct: that's what the Dragon article says, and that's how thermographic vision actually works IRL. However, that article was written for the AD&D game, in which "realistic" infravision -- i.e. heat vision -- is an optional rule. My comments were in reference to the oD&D rules' version of demihuman eyesight, which is treated as normal vision for the sake of simplicity. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 18:53:20 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E0=E9=EC=EF_=F9=E7=ED?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - Gazetteers Poll My fave will have to be Glantri. DotE comes seconed. Darolin and Rockhome close seconed. The ones I realy dont like are Irendi and the Northern reaches although lots of pices from the northern reches are well writen like the mordingswerg dwarfes. but if I wanted norse mythology as it is there are better sources to read about it. Morphail (Ohad Shaham) "and all the while as vampires feed- I bleed..." /the Pixies *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:06:11 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Infravision Sharon Dornhoff wrote: > > However, that article was written for the AD&D game, in which "realistic" > infravision -- i.e. heat vision -- is an optional rule. My comments were > in reference to the oD&D rules' version of demihuman eyesight, which is > treated as normal vision for the sake of simplicity. I've always wondered why they have this special vision (or what ever type) at all. They aren't depicted as operating more often at night than humans (I would even say they are more active during the daylight). Dwarves being underground I can understand, but not elves. Maybe keen eyesight (able to see much better in moon or star light than humans). But underground, they should be as blind as humans. - -- Timothy R. Haney galwylin@airnet.net The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 12:11:51 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves of Mystara >Are there no thieves in any elven or dwarven societies, that just makes no >sense. Just because there aren't any "adventurer" thieves -- i.e. members of the Thief character class, who making the perfection of thieving-skills their whole life -- doesn't mean elves and dwarves couldn't steal for a living, in oD&D! They'd just tend to use different methods (various customized theft-spells, for the former; tunnels into treasure vaults or mechanical gadgets like trick cash-drawers, for the latter) than a Thief-class human would. If anything, this might mark demihuman crooks as a more sophisticated lot (!) than human criminals, who have only their agility, bare hands, and a few crude lockpicks to rely upon. Also, Gaz13 introduced shadow elven "thieves", these being normal elves who learn skills which duplicate the abilities of the Thief class. Presumably this was meant to compensate for the lack of genuine Thief characters, in the SE territories, who could be played as PCs and so lend their talents to an adventuring party. However, there's nothing stopping DMs from making such "thief-mimic" skills available to other oD&D demihumans. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 12:24:39 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves >Although the argument could be made that, being an inherently "magical" race >as show in WotI (being affected by the week of no magic as they were), Elves >should NOT need a spellbook because their understanding of magic is inherent >to their very being. Note that I am not advocating this, simply stating that >it is a possibility that might be looked into. > >cj I would guess that, while any elf can call up raw magical energies, they need training and a spellbook if they are to release those energies in a form that's actually going to DO something. Maybe elven kids who are just starting to discover their 1st level spell-powers are every bit as much a pain-in-the-rear, for their adult caretakers, as those "kiddie mages" in Glantri: they're naturally-gifted enough to activate their spells, yet they aren't knowledgeable enough to control the magic's outcome. Heh heh heh. Raising an oD&D elf, when he/she's THAT age, could be as much of a headache as raising the pyrokinetic kid from "Firestarter"! Maybe that's the REAL reason why elves don't have as many kids as their long lifespans ought to allow, because after the first two or three, they just can't handle dodging wayward Magic Missiles in the nursery anymore.... ;-D *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 18:23:09 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment > I'm kinda agreeing with our two ladies of Mystara (Jenn and Sharon) > about Rafiel. He's forcing actions on the SE that violate a basic > instinct (that be a mother's caring for her child). I'd have a hard > time believing Rafiel is LG (he certainly believes in his idea of > good). Rafiel is dependent on the SE shamans being LN (without a sense > of good only law). My opinion anyway :) Well, it's not the AD&D-paladin-like "lawful good", but we can argue that he knows the peril which Atzanteotl is. As presenting the SE as an evil and scrupulous race he is protecting them from closer interest as A-Snake is content to see their evilness. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 12:31:56 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Infravision >I've always wondered why they < [elves] > have this special vision (or >what ever >type) at all. They aren't depicted as operating more often at night >than humans (I would even say they are more active during the >daylight). Dwarves being underground I can understand, but not elves. >Maybe keen eyesight (able to see much better in moon or star light than >humans). But underground, they should be as blind as humans. I've read that in the earliest D&D rules (we're talking wargaming with spells, here) elves could see at night, but not in caves. Dwarves and orcs were then given "heat vision" to explain how they could fight battles underground. Infravision seems to have become the "generic" special sight of all demihumans, somewhere in the transition from wargames to oD&D. Come to think of it, this was probably in the same Dragon article we were already talking about. IIRC, it's still available on the TSR website, and it covers the history of infravision in the game, as well as how heat-vision can be handled realistically during play. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 18:36:59 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dawn of the Grand Council > Another way to rationalize it is that many of the 1000 wizards are > unaccounted for... since a wizard may live a long time, their seat does not > become available until some proof of their death is available. Many of the > wizards have died, perished, or otherwise disappeared but there is no solid > proof, so their seat is held just in case they show up again someday. > > If this were true, then the Grand Council would probably hire adventurers > >from time to time to discern the fate of some long-missing wizard, to find > out whether his seat should be made available. This could make a > fascinating scenario for high level characters to go traveling the planes, > following vague clues to find some wizard. Some of the wizards could of > course have become liches or other monsters. Wizards who ascend to > immortality might retain an honorary seat on the council...? Well, THIS is a charming idea. :-) As I have written the description about the Grand Council I have to reconsider this, but I don't believe that the Council staff would allow more than some dozen member to disappear without searching for them. Probably there's a whole branch - "The Bureau for Life Sign Searches". Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 13:08:47 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves of Mystara In a message dated 1/22/99 7:03:30 AM Central Standard Time, Arminath@aol.com writes: << Mike, my group used some very simple and effective rules for multiclassing OD&D characters. Anyone want me to post them? >> If you'd like to, but I dont play OD&D. I might if i can get my hands on some of the books again. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 13:10:38 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves In a message dated 1/22/99 9:55:31 AM Central Standard Time, eand@WPI.EDU writes: << > Do elves need spellbooks to cast their spells? What else are you going to memorize spells from? :) Ethan >> It may be a subject of debate. If they are so magical, maybe they can just teach each other the spells. Then they just re-memorize them each day. Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 13:14:14 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizard's Duel In a message dated 1/22/99 10:23:34 AM Central Standard Time, mmontola@cc.hut.fi writes: << Does anyone have ideas of how to make a Glantrian Duel interesting intellectual gambit instead of being 'who sees the other first, casting a killer-spell against which the opponent didn't remember to prepare'-game. Now it's just lightning bolts one after another hoping that opponent died before I. ...Alphatian Duel to death is supposed to be something like that, but in Glantrian Duel (with hallucinatory terrains and invisible invincible monsters) might be more... role-playing, less dice-rolling. (One of my players will probably duel soon enough of Jherek Virayana's seat on council, with his stepmother Lan-Syn...) - Markus >> I no you dont play AD&D, but there are some interesting rules for those sort of duels in the High Level Campaigns book. It's one of those option books. I would post some of the rules to give you an idea, but I don't currently own the book. :( Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 19:01:23 +0200 From: "Solmyr of the Azure Star" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Birthright Greetings, all I am seeking more players for my Mystaran Birthright PBEM, set in and around the Known World. Each player rules a country, temple, guild, or a wizard, according to the Birthright rules. The game has recently expanded to include Norwold! Here you can play a famous character whom you like, then beat up another famous character whom you don't like :) And maybe you are even brave enough to take arms against the evil Master of Hule, who is menacing the Known World. To play, you MUST have access to at least the basic Birthright rules (and preferably also know them :) If you are interested, take a look at my website at the address indicated in my signature below. ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star aka Azure Star Dragon solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 18:52:47 +0200 From: "Solmyr of the Azure Star" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gazetteers Poll Most Used: 1.Glantri. Nuff said :) 2.Dawn of the Emperors. My PCs travel extensively... 3.Pretty much everything else. Like I said, my PCs travel extensively, and I use all sources for various lands. Least Used: Hmmm... Well, maybe Milenian Empire, because I don't have it :) ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star aka Azure Star Dragon solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 14:52:50 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Birthright I would be interested if i could play something affliated with Karameikos. Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 13:32:37 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - ? about the Rules Cyclopedia Did the rules cyclopedia have stuff from the Gazeteers too? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 15:19:30 -0500 From: Aron Reif Subject: [MYSTARA] - WOTC Online Store I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but the WOTC Online Store now has most of the Creature Crucibles (PC 2,3,&4), half a dozen Gazetteers (GAZ 2,4,7,11,12,14), and a few other things (X13,DMGR1&2) for sale directly from TSR/WOTC. Now I know that most of these books probably aren't on many people's wish-lists, but there are some people that might want one of these books. For all you non-U.S. list members, you're out of luck since they won't ship outside of the U.S., but they "do intend to offer this feature in the future". Aron Reif areif@erols.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:33:24 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Infravision >WHAT? From what I remember (an article on Infravision on Dragon by Roger E. >Moore), you CANNOT actually read with Infravision, but you can easily spot >even the slightest trace of heat and using it "see" the surrounding area >"lightened" by the heat source. But it's only a matter of shades of >darkness, you cannot actually read anything nor clearly see the enemies' >faces using infravision (think Predator). Depends on your game system...2nd edition AD&D specifies that infravision is *not* "infrared" or heat-seeking vision, but simply an ability to see farther than other races in the dark. So, if you use those rules, then you *can* read or see faces, etc. Jenn Explore Dark Myst Manor! http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 15:20:43 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - WOTC Online Store In a message dated 1/22/99 2:19:32 PM Central Standard Time, areif@erols.com writes: << I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but the WOTC Online Store now has most of the Creature Crucibles (PC 2,3,&4), half a dozen Gazetteers (GAZ 2,4,7,11,12,14), and a few other things (X13,DMGR1&2) for sale directly from TSR/WOTC. Now I know that most of these books probably aren't on many people's wish-lists, but there are some people that might want one of these books. For all you non-U.S. list members, you're out of luck since they won't ship outside of the U.S., but they "do intend to offer this feature in the future". Aron Reif areif@erols.com >> Thanks i have been slowly buying OD&D stuff. Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 14:31:06 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment >Well, it's not the AD&D-paladin-like "lawful good", but we can argue >that he knows the peril which Atzanteotl is. As presenting the SE >as an evil and scrupulous race he is protecting them from closer >interest as A-Snake is content to see their evilness. I have my doubts about that. While Atzanteotl might be a lot more powerful than Rafiel, now, the elven Immortal is really far younger than the SEs' patron, and couldn't have been much more than a Temporal when he began corrupting the Azcans and Schattenalfen! Had Rafiel only acted against him directly and openly, in the first place, he could have quashed "A-Snake's" efforts to corrupt the shadow elves, before the evil Immortal became too powerful. Instead, Rafiel's "don't mind me, I'm an evil bastard too" facade played right into Atzanteotl's hands. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #22 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, January 22 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 023 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gazetteers Poll Re: [MYSTARA] - Dawn of the Grand Council [MYSTARA] - Raknaar and the Nation of Dragons Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Birthright Re: [MYSTARA] - Gazetteers Poll Re: [MYSTARA] - Gazetteers Poll Re: [MYSTARA] - Elven Kin Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves Re: [MYSTARA] - Gazetteers Poll Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Raknaar Re: [MYSTARA] - Gazetteers Poll Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizard's Duel Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizard's Duel Re: [MYSTARA] - Gazetteers Poll Re: [MYSTARA] - Gazetteers Poll Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves of Mystara ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:47:38 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gazetteers Poll >I was looking at my gaz yesterday and it occurred me that some of them are >in terrible shape while others are almost near mint in condition, so I >wanted to ask you: Which are the three gazetteers you used most and the one >u used least? Great question--I love the fun stuff! Hmm... Most Used: 1.) Glantri. Although our campaign isn't set here, I love the setting and , as you all know, have expanded some on the setting and NPCs. 2.) Shadow Elves. Best-written and most well-rounded Gaz, IMHO. 3.) TIE: Orcs of Thar and Darokin. Hated the way "Orcs" was written (condescending), but the setting and NPCs have become major parts of my current campaign. Darokin was our base of operations until last year. My only gripe about the Darokin Gaz was that it needed to describe the major NPCs, like the Guildmaster. RUNNERS UP: Dawn of the Emperors; Northern Reaches Least Used: 1.) Atruaghin Clans. I can't find a way to use this one. Maybe the plot-line I'm working on (involving a small invading force of Azcans) will spice it up some. ;-) 2.) Ierendi. No comment... 3.) Minrothad. I like this one, but I just haven't found a use for it yet. NEW CATEGORY: Which Gaz *disappointed* you most? 1.) Ylaruam. I'm a big lover of the middle east, so I had high hopes for this one. If I ever get time, I'll work on an expansion of it. I like it, but it's *really* thin on info. 2.) Ierendi. Again, no comment... ;-) Jenn Explore Dark Myst Manor! http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 13:46:38 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dawn of the Grand Council But then again, no one is locked into your vision of the Grand Council. Personally, I don't like the idea of modern bureacratic terms. Just my personal preference...and I do rather like the idea of "missing" council members...mages, being who they are, are a pretty mysterious lot. I like the idea of members going missing for a time, but the society basically recognizing that death is not permanent, and long lost ancient wizards do resurface from time to time. Again, just my humble opinion. Jamuga Khan wrote: > > > Another way to rationalize it is that many of the 1000 wizards are > > unaccounted for... since a wizard may live a long time, their seat does > not > > become available until some proof of their death is available. Many of > the > > wizards have died, perished, or otherwise disappeared but there is no > solid > > proof, so their seat is held just in case they show up again someday. > > > > If this were true, then the Grand Council would probably hire adventurers > > >from time to time to discern the fate of some long-missing wizard, to > find > > out whether his seat should be made available. This could make a > > fascinating scenario for high level characters to go traveling the > planes, > > following vague clues to find some wizard. Some of the wizards could of > > course have become liches or other monsters. Wizards who ascend to > > immortality might retain an honorary seat on the council...? > > Well, THIS is a charming idea. :-) > > As I have written the description about the Grand Council I > have to reconsider this, but I don't believe that the Council staff > would allow more than some dozen member to disappear without > searching for them. Probably there's a whole branch - > "The Bureau for Life Sign Searches". > > Jamuga Khan > > "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 14:22:07 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: [MYSTARA] - Raknaar and the Nation of Dragons Since the subject of the "Dragonlord" series has been brought up, I thought it might be a good time to ask if anyone else thinks one of the Gaz3/G:KoM characters -- specifically, good ol' Raknaar the gold dragon, aka "Uncle Anton" of the Vlaardoens -- deserves a re-think. If we accept the DLoM novels as "canon", then perhaps there's a lot more to Raknaar (Raknaer...? The other spelling's Flaemish, but "ae" appears in most dragons' names from the novels....) than we'd ever thought there was. We now know that the Nation of Dragons is a LOT more organized than anyone suspected, when Gaz3 first got published. Back then, Raknaar/"Wilbur" was just another Glantrian who wasn't what he seemed ... and a source of comic relief! But after new revelations from the "Dragonlord" series, and from Bruce Heard's articles on draconic society, Raknaar's presence as a "lone, bored old dragon" in Glantri City now makes very little sense. He can't be a true renegade, because gold dragons reportedly never "go rogue"; and he doesn't seem to be a "king" over Glantri's other dragons, since he habitually keeps his draconic body in stasis and Magic Jars into Anton Vlaardoen's form. Despite his evident fondness for playing jokes on the Glantrians (as with his exploits from Gaz3, as Wilbur), I find it implausible that a gold dragon -- even one who's bored out of his gourd! -- would live among backbiting wizards, for no higher purpose than to pull off a running gag. Instead, I suspect Raknaar isn't a dilettante dragon, at all ... or even a merely-philanthropic one, out to protect the LG Princess Julianna! My guess is that he's a spy deliberately planted in Glantri City by the Parliament of Dragons, to keep an eye on the Flaemish wizards who -- according to "Dragonlord", etc -- have caused their Nation so many difficulties, in the past. Taking "Uncle Anton"'s identity was more than just a convenience; rather, it was a way to get close to Glantri's own Parliament, and to subtly influence Bergdhovian affairs, through Julianna and her late father. Raknaar's alternate human identity, as Wilbur -- a "bumbling, absent-minded fool", who "accidentally" stumbles through other nobles' private chambers during wild parties ;-) -- lets him secretly investigate the various Princes' doings, with a careful eye out for anything that could impact upon, or advance the agenda of, the Nation of Dragons. I'm not surprised that "Wilbur" took such an aggressive part in that "Ornithopter vs Red Dragons" scenario he recounted, since the dragons in question must have been renegades (which we know Parliament wants vanquished whenever possible) ... OR that the dragon-killing aircraft didn't stay in one piece for long, once it'd served Raknaar's purposes. By this interpretation, Raknaar's habit of wearing Anton's body via Magic Jar -- as opposed to using his shapechanging powers to impersonate the man, and thus having the option of reverting to dragon-form in a pinch -- is a LOT easier to justify. Evidently, the Nation of Dragons is aware of the Dracologists' ability to identify polymorphed dragons as such; "wearing" another body (which truly IS human) allows Raknaar to keep up his pretense ... even in the presence of Prince Jaggar, himself. (Although the Lawfully-aligned Jaggar might put up with a few gold dragons living undercover in Glantri, if their intentions are innocent, he's sure not gonna let a SPY slip past if he catches one! ;-D) Using Anton would also explain why Synn hasn't already spotted Raknaar -- dragonkin can always recognize other dragonkin, at least according to the novels -- and taken steps to remove him. (Raknaar, OTOH, is probably well aware of Delores's hidden nature as a renegade dragon ... although he probably isn't aware of just HOW much of a renegade -- i.e. a "night dragon", or Entropic servant - -- she's become.) Why would the Parliament go to all this trouble, given that the Flaemish -- the ones Raknaar's in the best position to observe -- aren't particularly influential, in the patchwork society of "modern" Glantri? Why not infiltrate Aalban -- home of the High Master of Dracology -- or another high-profile principality like Neuvelle Averoigne? My guess is that he's been posted there, to investigate one thing: the Radiance. The Nation of Dragons learned of this magical power-source, during the "Dragonlord" series, and -- leery of how its power once nearly overcame the dreaded Dragonlord (!) -- are very, VERY concerned that it might be turned against them someday. Unfortunately, they lost track of who in Glantri actually controlled this mysterious source of magic, after the chaotic Years of Infamy, and are still laboring under the mistaken belief that the Flaem are the ones hoarding its secrets. That's what Raknaar'd been trying to learn, from the real Anton Vlaardoen's notes, when the fire-wizard discovered "Wilbur" snooping through his private papers, and the dragon resorted to Feebleminding him. Even after WotI, Raknaar's still unaware of the Brotherhood's existence, although certain papers which "Anton" inherited from the late Prince Vansaarie have given him clues as to where he should search next. All of this makes Raknaar's role in Glantrian politics much more interesting. On the surface, he's aligned with Julianna as her (suddenly MUCH nicer! :-D) Uncle Anton, and is trying to make Bergdhoven a more LG place because, well, that's just what LG creatures do. In false identities such as "Wilbur", he's a cagey Parliament secret agent, out to discreetly look into the Radiance and anyone who might know about it ... but WITHOUT exposing his doings or the Parliament's involvement in spy-missions. As a gold dragon loyal to the greater Nation of Dragons, he's aware of Synn's presence and realizes she's up to no good; yet he can't call in other dragons to eliminate the "renegade" (because she's a Princess of Glantri, a country with which Parliament has an ancient truce), OR warn other Glantrians that she's a dragon and a troublemaker (because he'd have to explain HOW he knows this!). Every which way you look at it, he's one busy boy ... and one hell of a potential wild card (since the Parliament of Dragons are his backers) that even Delores Hillsbury's scheming hasn't taken into account! But then, I suppose it must run in the family. His Grandpa Thelvaenir got into some pretty thick political messes in Glantri, too, IIRC... ...but that's just IMC/IMHO, of course. ;-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 14:10:59 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Birthright > > I would be interested if i could play something affliated with Karameikos. > Mike > I think the major Karameikan (now Traladaran, but Stefan still reigns supreme) Guild is available, as well as some of the Temple Slags. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 14:26:26 -0700 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gazetteers Poll Three Most Used 1) Karameikos - Sure its generic, but the vast majority of the Mystara campaigns I have run have been with people unfamiliar with the world, and Karameikos is a good place to start. 2) Dawn of the Emperors - Used mostly for its Thyatis stuff, since I tend to have a lot of Thyatis/Karameikos relations in my Karameikos-set games. 3) Darokin - A huge, interesting place that you have to cross to get to just about anywhere, and thus it sees a lot of use. Three Least Used 1) Ethengar - Not cuz I don't like it, but rather haven't had it but for about two years now. 2) Ylaruam - Just never got around do doing anything there. 3) Orcs of Thar - Very little in this did much for me. Three I Wish Were the Most Used 1) Minrothad - My favorite location on Mystara, and a good Gazetteer. Probably has something to do with my love of a good swashbucklery setting. Never got to do much with it, though. 2) Glantri - While wizard-dominated countries are hardly a new idea, Glantri manages to make it seem new and interesting. The city itself, with its canals, is a very idea-provoking image. 3) Alfheim - Sure glad I managed to pick this one up; its not easy to find anymore. I really like the portrayal of elves in here, since it managed to make them stand out, while still being the elves we all know and love. 3) The Shadow Elves - One of the most creative of the Gaz's, it managed to take the concept of underground elves and turn it into something other than a drow clone. Yes, this is tied with Alfheim, but that's cuz I would love to run an all elf campaign in Alfheim that ended up dealing with the SE and their realms. Two I Don't Own and Don't Want to Own 1) Ierendi - How many ways can I say "Ewwww"? 2) Atraughin - Not my kind of thing. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com ICQ #20039817 "Let's show this prehistoric bitch how we do things downtown." Dr. Venkmen, Ghostbusters *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 22:24:43 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gazetteers Poll Hmm. Most Used 1) Glantri. I love all the scheming and backstabbing that goes on here. :) 2) Alfheim. I dont like the "elves are pointy eared humans" situation that just about every other elven kingdom ever detailed has. (OK, Tolkien elves arent THAT different, but I'm not a purist :). Alfheim is suitably - non human :) 3) Milenian Empire. I've always had a soft spot for Greek myths, this place is amazing :) Least Used 1) Ierendi. The tourist resort concept is Not Cool. I was planning on using the island that used to be a Thyatian prison at some point though - but that was just after I watched "The Rock" some time ago :) 2) Ethengar. Used it once, but I find it real hard to write adventures around this place. At least, compared to Glantri/Milenia :) 3) Darokin. Dont know why I havnt used this one much, as Darokin is pretty important. Just never got round to adventuring there. Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 22:14:15 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elven Kin At 03.31 21/01/99 -0700, Peter Gnanapragasam wrote: >Hi: > >I would like to know which race is the closest kinred of the elves... if >there is one? Sidhe (from PC1) maybe. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 22:09:17 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves At 03.27 22/01/99 EST, Nurvel@aol.com wrote: >Do elves need spellbooks to cast their spells? Sure, like all mages. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@gdr.net Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 22:23:23 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gazetteers Poll At 13.47 22/01/99 +0100, DM wrote: >Hi guys! > >I was looking at my gaz yesterday and it occurred me that some of them are >in terrible shape while others are almost near mint in condition, so I >wanted to ask you: Which are the three gazetteers you used most and the one >u used least? Remember that "using" a gaz can also mean peruse its rules >and info without actually playing in that region with your gaming group >(which happened to me with Glantri). Most used: 1) Shadow Elves - well, my campaign is (was) about 3 shadow elves PCs... 2) Darokin - the easiest place to go from the SE lands and teh best place to live in the KW (IMO) 3) Karameikos - my first campaign was set there (because I had only that GAZ at the time) Least used: 1) Northern Reaches - never played there. The GAZ is nice, rune magic and personality traits are cool, but my PCs have never ventured there 2) Five Shires - same as above 2) Ylaruam - used only once, but I don't like the place ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@gdr.net Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 22:30:46 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment At 14.31 22/01/99 -0500, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: >I have my doubts about that. While Atzanteotl might be a lot more powerful >than Rafiel, now, the elven Immortal is really far younger than the SEs' >patron, and couldn't have been much more than a Temporal when he began >corrupting the Azcans and Schattenalfen! Had Rafiel only acted against him >directly and openly, in the first place, he could have quashed "A-Snake's" >efforts to corrupt the shadow elves, before the evil Immortal became too >powerful. Instead, Rafiel's "don't mind me, I'm an evil bastard too" >facade played right into Atzanteotl's hands. Atzanteotl is certainly a younger Immortal, but he got involved with SE (and also Azcans and Schattenalfen) far earlier than Rafiel. Don't forget that Rafiel took the SE under his patronage after Atzanteotl chased them away from Aengmor/Oenkmar. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@gdr.net Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 18:52:52 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment > It's a country that aspires to the Chaotic > Good ideal that governmental authority should have limits and that all > people are born with rights which no law should infringe upon, and which > suffers far more from the Chaotic Evil ills of crime and greed than from > tyranny. Well, no offense intended, but the Iraqui probably see the U.S.A. as a terrible evil country, and probably most Occidental countries as well. Not to forget Israel which is the "Realm of Evil" for many, many countries. We really should drop the idea of "nation's alignments"... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 18:45:06 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves of Mystara > I didnt read the start of this debate, but you may be referring to the > elves of the Sylvan realm. Now, the Sylvan realm is far to the north west > on the continent where Alfheim, Thyatis and Karameikos lay. Most of the > elves we know, originally came from the Sylvan realm and were lead to our > part of the world by Mealiden Starwatcher via a magical rainbow bridge. > (Also mentioned in the Dragonlord series.) > > Hope this helps, > Håvard Håvard, please don't believe that I will protest everytime you make a statement, but this not true! The Alfheim Elves were in Sylvan and the Callarii, the Vyalias and the Shiye, but not the Shadow Elves, the Wood Elves and the Water Elves from Minrothad, the Belcadiz Elves, the Blacklores, the Icevale Elves, the Gentle Folk, the Schattenalfen and all elves on the Savage Coast. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 22:32:10 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves of Mystara At 12.11 22/01/99 -0500, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: >Also, Gaz13 introduced shadow elven "thieves", these being normal elves who >learn skills which duplicate the abilities of the Thief class. Presumably >this was meant to compensate for the lack of genuine Thief characters, in >the SE territories, who could be played as PCs and so lend their talents to >an adventuring party. However, there's nothing stopping DMs from making >such "thief-mimic" skills available to other oD&D demihumans. True, but this shadow elven "thieves" are more like scouts than thieves. Theft is unherad of in the shadow elves lands. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@gdr.net Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 14:29:48 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Raknaar >But then, I suppose it must run in the family. His >Grandpa Thelvaenir got into some pretty thick >political messes in Glantri, too, IIRC... >...but that's just IMC/IMHO, of course. ;-) Excellent tie-in, Sharon! I adored Raknaar at first read, *and* use the NoD IMC, and I couldn't have done this scenario nearly the justice you have. Bravo! One question: Any thoughts on what he was looking for in Carnelia's house that night? ;-) Jenn Explore Dark Myst Manor! http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 16:50:57 -0600 From: Aaron E Nowack Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gazetteers Poll Three most Used: 1) Darokin It's where my Wrath campaign is set (the characters could care less about the Alph/Thy war [even though they helped cause it] because the Master's hordes are sitting right outside Darokin City [which will put up a better fight then it managed to in MBirthright]). 2) The Sea Peoples Not realy a Gazeteer, but oh well. And why should be obvious :) 3) Glantri: Kingdom of Magic I wish I had the gazeteer, but dosen't everyone who dosen't? The campaign spent quite a bit of time teleporting between Glantri and Alphatia in 1004. BTW, never mention the Glantri City Grappling Hook Seller's Guild to the party... no, you don't want to know :) Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/5930/ ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 19:04:03 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizard's Duel << Does anyone have ideas of how to make a Glantrian Duel interesting > intellectual gambit instead of being 'who sees the other first, casting a > killer-spell against which the opponent didn't remember to prepare'-game. There's a super-nifty spell in the WSpCmp called "Arcane Contention" that should do the trick. It lets two dueling wizards conjure up gigantic, illusionary monsters of their choice -- each one, "powered" by its conjurer's spells, hit points, and ability scores -- to fight it out in the sky overhead. The victorious one gets a nice batch of experience for winning, while the loser's memory is drained of spells, rendering him or her vulnerable. It's an AD&D spell, of course, but it should be easily convertible if you don't use those rules. :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 02:14:45 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizard's Duel > There's a super-nifty spell in the WSpCmp called "Arcane Contention" that Can you mail the description? > should do the trick. It lets two dueling wizards conjure up gigantic, > illusionary monsters of their choice -- each one, "powered" by its > conjurer's spells, hit points, and ability scores -- to fight it out in the > sky overhead. The victorious one gets a nice batch of experience for > winning, while the loser's memory is drained of spells, rendering him or > her vulnerable. Sounds nice. At least far better than putting two wizards in a jar and waiting for one to emerge victorious. - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 19:19:20 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gazetteers Poll Okay, my turn.... >Most Used 1. Darokin Gazetteer - It's big for a KW nation, you have to go through it to get anywhere, and the rules for overland trade are fairly comprehensive (and it has a map of Alfheim built into it!). My PCs are going through Alfheim right now (heading west), but they spent about three months (game time) passing through Daro-land. They also move trade goods they find from massacred caravans in order to get some extra cash, so... 2. Shadowelves Gaz - IMO, the shadowelves *alone* are a reason to play in Mystara. They're not one-dimensional, as drow seem to be (IMO). Also, one of my PCs is a shadowelf, so this book is usually out at every game session. 3. Alfheim - It's the first Gaz I ever bought, and elves are my favourite race, anyway. I found it well-written. A close second here for 3rd place would be Top Ballista (if we can consider it a Gaz) - gnomes are cool, and I loved those rules for airplanes! :) >Least Used: 1. Five Shires - The history was interesting, but the Gaz as a whole didn't do anything for me. 2. Ylaruam - Again, some interesting history, but it would have been far better if it were written when the Empire of Nithia's history and info had existed, rather than several years beforehand. A major failing of the book, IMO, and it could have used more cultural info. 3. Atruaghin - I ran an adventure there once, but I found the Gaz poorly-written. Only the map was its saving grace, really. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 19:33:43 -0500 From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gazetteers Poll My favorite/most used Gazetteers: GAZ1 - Karameikos. Why? Sir Alexius' homeland. I love Karameikos. It's awesome. No, it's not as sophisticated as Glantri or Thyatis. But it's a great setting. GAZ9, 11 - I really enjoy the merchant/trading rules. It's the only way I'm ever going to make any money. ;-) PC4 - The werewolves. One of the merchants I've played with was a werefox/mage. Lots of fun. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 20:40:32 EST From: BoBoII@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves of Mystara In a message dated 1/22/99 9:03:30 AM, you wrote: <> Yes please! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #23 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Saturday, January 23 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 024 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Minaria (was elves v magic) Re: [MYSTARA] - Minaria (was elves v magic) Re: [MYSTARA] - Apocalypses Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Birthright Re: [MYSTARA] - ? about the Rules Cyclopedia Re: [MYSTARA] - ? about the Rules Cyclopedia [MYSTARA] - Gazeteer Poll Re: [MYSTARA] - Apocalypses Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizard's Duel Re: [MYSTARA] - Gazetteers Poll Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquas Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves Re: [MYSTARA] - RE:Aquas [MYSTARA] - Mystara net-modules Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara net-modules Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel [MYSTARA] - Multi-classing OD&D Characters Re: [MYSTARA] - Gazetteers Poll [MYSTARA] - Iron Ring and Black Eagle Barony Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Birthright Re: [MYSTARA] - The Multiverse Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves of Mystara ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 21:26:41 EST From: Mystaros@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Minaria (was elves v magic) In a message dated 99-01-22 09:53:28 EST, ferro@Princeton.EDU writes: << What was the first post-apocalyptic fantasy? Fred >> The Iliad, by Homer. Took place several centuries after the Sinking of Atlantis (though not mentioned in the book)... Mystaros *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 21:34:12 EST From: Mystaros@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Minaria (was elves v magic) In a message dated 99-01-22 21:30:28 EST, Mystaros@aol.com writes: << << What was the first post-apocalyptic fantasy? Fred >> The Iliad, by Homer. Took place several centuries after the Sinking of Atlantis (though not mentioned in the book)... Mystaros >> Oops. Caught myself up. Actually, it would be the Epic of Gilgamesh, which followed the Babylonian Enuma Elish, Epic of Creation, which IIRC included the Deluge... Mystaros *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 22:42:33 -0500 (EST) From: Frederic Ferro Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Apocalypses On Fri, 22 Jan 1999, Markus Olavi Montola wrote: > > What was the first post-apocalyptic fantasy? > Probably Middle-Earth. And there were a LOT of apocalypses there. :) Yes, each age stops with a big change of the Maps. :-) But Howard's Hyborian world was created before Middle-Earth and the downfall of Kull's Atlantis plays some role. I should have asked more precisely what was the first "post-_technological_ apocalyptic (after the Bomb) fantasy" because the original element of the Mystaran cataclysm are the GRoF and the explosion of the Blackmoor radioactive device. Fred *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 00:16:56 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Birthright In a message dated 1/22/99 2:39:31 PM Central Standard Time, jruhlconob@sprynet.com writes: << I think the major Karameikan (now Traladaran, but Stefan still reigns supreme) Guild is available, as well as some of the Temple Slags. >> You mean I could play the King or what....maybe a church or something....... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 00:21:17 -0500 From: Jerry Hovenanian Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - ? about the Rules Cyclopedia Nurvel@aol.com wrote: > Did the rules cyclopedia have stuff from the Gazeteers too? Well...It hat about 20 pages in a appendix about Mystara. The maps I mentioned before.. and a few paragraphs on each of the countries of the Known World and Hollow World. More of a primer for people new to Mystara (that is what i use it for:). Jerry Hovenanian *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 00:24:31 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - ? about the Rules Cyclopedia In a message dated 1/22/99 11:21:38 PM Central Standard Time, clumsydwarf@hotmail.com writes: << Well...It hat about 20 pages in a appendix about Mystara. The maps I mentioned before.. and a few paragraphs on each of the countries of the Known World and Hollow World. More of a primer for people new to Mystara (that is what i use it for:). Jerry Hovenanian >> Actually what i meant was does it use rules from the Gazeteers, not the actual geographic descriptions. Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 00:28:40 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Gazeteer Poll I dont have alot of the GAZ's so here goes 1)Karameikos-KofA.....dont have the Gaz.....This is the best land that has ever existed in the history of RPGs. I love everything about it. Thats about all I can say. I have about 5 of the Gazeteers, but I havent had a chance to use them yet. But 2)Glantri 3)Kingdom of Nithia Least like........none.... Wish I had The Elves of Alfhiem & The Shadow Elves Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 01:00:02 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Apocalypses In a message dated 1999-01-22 22:46:41 Eastern Standard Time, ferro@Princeton.EDU writes: > I should have asked more precisely what was the first > "post-_technological_ apocalyptic (after the Bomb) fantasy" because the > original element of the Mystaran cataclysm are the GRoF and the explosion > of the Blackmoor radioactive device. Okay -- what form of fantasy are you interested in? I think "Gamma World" is slightly older than most of the post-apocalyptic movies such as "Wizards" and the "Mad Max" series. But if you can find a post-apocalyptic fantasy that dates back to the late 1940s or early 1950s, that is probably as far back as such works are likely to go. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 00:59:58 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizard's Duel In a message dated 1999-01-22 11:23:34 Eastern Standard Time, mmontola@cc.hut.fi writes: > Does anyone have ideas of how to make a Glantrian Duel interesting > intellectual gambit instead of being 'who sees the other first, casting a > killer-spell against which the opponent didn't remember to prepare'-game. > > Now it's just lightning bolts one after another hoping that opponent died > before I. Check the PWAs for the duel between Isidore and Henri d'Ambreville. The main excitement in that one was in the intrigue before the duel, as Isidore carried out various plots to infect Henri with lycanthropy. The fact that the duel was scheduled to start a few minutes before the rising of the full moon as well as the fact that Isidore was herself a werewolf made those plots critical. And exact spell strategy can be quite important. If I knew that my opponent in such a duel was planning to blast away with lightning bolts (or even if I just suspected it), I could easily come up with a selection of spells to counter that form of attack. And don't forget the power of illusion spells -- I remember one duel from a game in college where wizard X was apparently clobbering wizard Y with a variety of offensive spells. Wizard X received a nasty surprise when wizard Y whacked wizard X from behind -- it seems that wizard X had been fighting an illusion created by wizard Y as wizard Y silently and invisibly sneaked up on wizard X. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 01:09:38 -0500 From: Jerry Hovenanian Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gazetteers Poll Aaron E Nowack wrote: > Three most Used: > > 1) Darokin > > It's where my Wrath campaign is set (the characters could care less about > the Alph/Thy war [even though they helped cause it] because the Master's > hordes are sitting right outside Darokin City [which will put up a better > fight then it managed to in MBirthright]). > I also set my Wrath campaign here...you have Hule, the Shadow Elves, Thar, And Glantri to deal with....who wants a silly war when you have that intrigue here. My Favs... 1. Darokin - it boarders 9 other nations and has one 1 other inside it....Great place to start 2 DotE - Sooo much stuff in one...little....box :) 3. The Atruaghin Clans - well written. If you need to find a use for it...think Hule and think invasion of the clans. On the Shelf 1 The Northern Reaches - never liked Vikings and i don't know what to do with it. 2 Ethengar - seldom sees use 3 Minrothad - elves...on the water??? Jerry Hovenanian *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 01:27:48 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel In a message dated 1999-01-21 08:07:29 Eastern Standard Time, Arminath@aol.com writes: > He wasn't their second favorite. Soon after he pushed the SE living in the > floating city to blood sacrifice, they rebelled and he drove them away so > more suitable followers would set up shop, like orcs and trolls. They didn't rebel -- Atzanteotl drove them away from Aengmor/Oenkmar because he preferred followers who were shorter lived and therefore more fertile. And the Schattenalfen of the Hollow World still worship Atzanteotl in great numbers. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 01:36:38 -0500 From: Jerry Hovenanian Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Aquas DM wrote: > << We are all forgeting one thing that gould have saved Aquas from > suffication, the industrious little Gnomes who do not want to die. They > could have used an undersea boat to get a air tube to the surface and used > fans to get the air down or some other strange idea. Also I think there > must have been some plan to evacuate the city in case of an emergency maybe > to an under water cave because there is a cavern that the leviathan was > hiding it so there might have been other large caverns near by.>> > > My second hypothesis after the artifact was that Aquas' depuration stations > are not magical but gnomish. That's to say that the gnomes designed and > built some vents and other strange contraptions which turn water pumped in > into fresh air, also using some algae and water mosses in the process. This > would have made Aquas the best place to be during the great upheaval of > 1009 AC. Obviously there are some drawbacks with the gnomish air-system: > the first and foremost being that it has to be permanently kept clean and > carefully watched in order to keep it operative. The second one is that > Aquas' air has a distinct salty smell, and while the Aquans themselves are > used at it, foreigners usually find it rather distasteful for the first 24 > hours. Third, the refined water produces some really interesting wastes: > tons and tons of salt, which is store in special silos and traded to the > surface nations in exchange for other luxuries and first need products. > > That's a possible solution, right? ;) > Oh ya it is...NEVER put anything past a gnome...they will put buttons on your sword when you're not looking :) Jerry Hovenanian *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 02:27:56 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves In a message dated 1999-01-22 10:55:31 Eastern Standard Time, eand@WPI.EDU writes: > On Fri, 22 Jan 1999 Nurvel@aol.com wrote: > > > Do elves need spellbooks to cast their spells? > > What else are you going to memorize spells from? :) Well, clerics and fairies just pray or meditate for their spells.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 02:27:54 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical elves In a message dated 1999-01-21 16:21:56 Eastern Standard Time, g1ggles@hotmail.com writes: > >> Of course the problem with any race having inherent > >> Mage abilities is that some will either refuse to > >> develop their abilities beyond first level or (worse > >> yet) refuse to develop their native talent. I think > >> it may be the talent that makes the difference: > > i think you're wrong there, i think that casting spells to an elf is > almost as easy as talking. even am infant can channel magical energies, > but to no effect. It is not that easy for them -- they do require spellbooks, after all. > >> 100% of all elves have the talent to become wizards. > >> Some (those who were born in the Hollow World and have > >> intelligence of less than 16) are initially unable to > >> develop that talent, while others fail or refuse to do > >> so for various reasons. > > i don't have HW stuff, so i'm only talking about surface elves. > > i think that some elves may not use their magic knowlege, but all elves > know a first level spell or two That would be true for elves outside of the Hollow World and the Savage Coast, for which exceptions are specifically described. But even the elves who start out with magical talents may decide that they are more interested in fighting than magic use or vice versa long before reaching level 10. Under both D&D and AD&D rules, elf fighter/ mages progress evenly in both combat and magical ability even if they concentrate their efforts on one and all but ignore the other. An elf who started out with "lame" spells may even have lost his spellbook and decided that he could fight well enough that it was not worthwhile to replace it -- at some point his spell knowledge should cease to improve even though he is still progressing in the fighting arts. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 02:27:51 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - RE:Aquas In a message dated 1999-01-21 11:30:52 Eastern Standard Time, dornhoff@bio.umass.edu writes: > >Kopru, Nixies: These races might lose their charm powers. > > > > I don't think the SoP deprives monsters of their charm powers, if they're > natural abilities rather than "spells". The sun-wight from the HW boxed > set had a charm-gaze, like a vampire's, and didn't have any trouble using > it in the Hollow World. > > Otherwise, the HW wouldn't be much of a monster-preserve, because any > creature you put there which depended on a "banned" power for its survival > would go extinct anyway. That is why I said "might". "Charm Person" and "Invisibility" are among the spells banned as impossible in the Hollow World boxed set, but one of the HWR books had a fairy creature whose "Invisibility to Mortals" power worked just fine. I am less sure about the charm gaze, though -- the sun wight is never depicted as being able or unable to charm victims in the Hollow World, so it is unclear whether that power works there or not. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 07:47:23 GMT From: "John Polacek" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mystara net-modules I think it's really great that everyone is here keeping Mystara alive and well. When I've had time, I've really enjoyed reading the 'net gazeteers and 'net almanacs. However, I haven't been able to find much in the way of adventure net-modules. Does anyone know where I might look on the web to find some Mystaran adventure campaigns (or adventures adaptable to Mystara)? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 06:14:16 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara net-modules In a message dated 1/23/99 1:50:32 AM Central Standard Time, drinkupjohnny99@hotmail.com writes: << I think it's really great that everyone is here keeping Mystara alive and well. When I've had time, I've really enjoyed reading the 'net gazeteers and 'net almanacs. However, I haven't been able to find much in the way of adventure net-modules. Does anyone know where I might look on the web to find some Mystaran adventure campaigns (or adventures adaptable to Mystara)? >> I'm working on a few modules, but I am going to try to get them published in Dungeon first. Then i will post them on the MML. By the way John, I have a cool campaign idea for you if you like the "Fight the Evil Wizard thing before he does something to the world" . It's good with some twists, but if you play OD&D, it may not work to well. Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 06:27:24 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rafiel In a message dated 1/23/99 1:31:12 AM Eastern Standard Time, Kaviyd@aol.com writes: << They didn't rebel -- Atzanteotl drove them away from Aengmor/Oenkmar because he preferred followers who were shorter lived and therefore more fertile. And the Schattenalfen of the Hollow World still worship Atzanteotl in great numbers. >> Maybe "rebel" was too strong a word. The SE weren't as bloodthirsty as he wanted, or as prolific. Better? ;-) Arminath *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 07:08:08 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Multi-classing OD&D Characters IMC we allow the demihuman character classes to multi-class in order to fill out the "missing" areas of their adventuring abilities. Even though the OD&D system is supposed to be more streamlined than it's AD&D counterpart, I have players ask why theit Elf can't learn thief skills or why dwarves have no clerics (they have immortals). Even though the GAZ line expanded and created alot of neat things, taken outside the area of each GAZ those expanded abilities sometimes caused more problems than they were worth. IMC we came up with this, a more general way that treats all the demihumans equal. While we use the GAZ series IMC, the major changes to each race and/or class are restricted to the NPC's that have spent their lives closely tied to their power/belief and lands. This then is geared towards the character that learns from the world, not just a small part of it. Classes Allowed by Race and Maximum Level - ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dwarves: Cleric (8) or Thief (10) Elves, Sylvan: Cleric (8), Druid (12) or Thief (10) Elves, Shadow: Cleric (12) or Thief (10) Gnomes: Cleric (10), Magic-user (8), Thief (12) Halfling: Cleric (12), Druid (10) or Thief (12) The Rules - --------------- 1) The character must meet ALL the requirements of his base class and the class he wishes to add. No character may have more than 2 total classes. The character still recieves experience adjustments for ability scores. 2) The multi-classed character must abide by ALL of the restrictions of both classes, such as weapon, armor or alignment restrictions. There are 2 exceptions to this rule: A) Multi-classed Magic-users may learn any weapon from the other class. B) Racial weapons may be used by any type of character of the race in question. Dwarves may use Battle and Hand Axes; Elves may use Short Swords, Normal Swords, Long Bows and Short Bows; Gnomes may use War Hammers, Light Crossbows and Hand Crossbows; Halflings may use Daggers and Slings. (These are used IMC and are suggestions only!) 3) The character must begin at 1st level. The multi-classed character must add the experience charts of both his classes together to determine his new experience chart. When the needed amount of experience is gained, the multi- classed character advances in level in both classes at the the same time. Example: a Dwarf Cleric needs 3,700 EP to advance to 2nd level, 2,200 EP for being a dwarf +1,500 EP for being a cleric. This continues even after the character reaches his maximum level in one of his classes. 4) The character still uses the same Attack Matrix and Saving Throw Table as a "Normal" member of his race. 5) The character gains Hit Points as a normal member of his race. 6) The character gains Weapon Skills and General Skills as a normal member of his race. 7) The character's stronghold and will reflect his classes. The exact extent is ultimately left to the DM, but as a suggestion, the stronghold will be based on the character's extra class with elements of his normal class. Example: An Elf Thief would construct his hideout in a forest and make it appear to be a natural part of the surrounding terrain as much as possible. Any questions or suggestions? Arminath *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 08:42:04 EST From: Demmero@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gazetteers Poll In a message dated 1/22/99 11:33:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, eand@WPI.EDU writes: << On Fri, 22 Jan 1999, John Hare wrote: > Most Used > 1. Gaz 3: Glantri, held together with tape & the map is falling apart. > (Fortunately I have a second copy. :) Augh!! hoarder!! Share the wealth!! *giggle* :) Ethan >> LOL. I'm another hoarder...I think I've got Treasure Types G & H piled up in my lair... ;) Favorites: I'm already on second copies of Karameikos and Glantri...Darokin, The Shires, and the Orcs of Thar are pretty beat up but have replacements waiting in the wings :) My poor DotE set has been walked on more times than many of the rugs in my house! Also among my faves (though it's not a GAZ) is CM1: Test of the Warlords...there's a nice campaign setting there just begging to be fleshed out. Least Used: The Hollow World ones...I've decided that the whole HW idea is a little bit on the silly side, and the outer world has more than enough places to hold my interest. My Atruaghin, Ethengar, and Shadow Elves Gazs are all in pretty good shape (i.e., little used), though I might break out the Shadow Elves one just to surprise my AD&D players who no doubt will expect them to be drow clones... Most Disappointing: Two from my most used list...Karameikos and Darokin. Darokin just needed some more nastiness to it...it's just too civilized. (Or more detail on Selenica--this should be a fascinating city with elven, dwarven, & arabic influences all mashed together). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 15:52:03 GMT From: "John Polacek" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Iron Ring and Black Eagle Barony Does anyone out their know where I can find more info on the Iron Ring and the Black Eagle Barony, either published or on the 'net. I already have B10, and the Karameikos Gaz, but I want to know more. Has anyone fleshed out the barony in detail, or the organization of the Iron Ring and how it exists in the barony. I'm curious to find out its day-to-day operations, who the higher-ups are, and what sort of plots and schemes they generally engage in. I know that the Eye of Traldar module supposedly takes place in the Barony. Is there any worthwhile info in there? What about the Karameikos: Kingdom of Adventure supplement? Thanks in advance for all the help. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 10:02:59 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Birthright > >> > You mean I could play the King or what....maybe a church or something....... > Stefan* is taken, as is Terari (Wizads), Aleksyev Nikelnevich (a chunk of the former Church of Traladara, now Patriarch of Mirros), Sergyev (Cult of Halav), but several Traladaran "Patriarchates*" are available, as is the areas major merchant (Antonio Radu, Traladaran Merchants Consortium). Check out: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/MBirthright/mystbr.html And: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/MBirthright/pbemdomains.h tml And for you: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/MBirthright/traladara.htm l *In this game Stefan chose to become a Prince rather than earn my ire. *The "Patriarchates" in question are really "Bishoprics". *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 10:33:16 -0600 (CST) From: Stephen Dolan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Multiverse Ok My new qeustion to start a nice little thread is Mystara and the Multiverse. I'm thinking that i want to get my players into a little planescape action and need to know how Mystara interacts with the Multiverse as detailed in the Planescape setting. What are the immortals considered in terms of Planescape powers? Where are their home planes for calculating the weakness of their clerics? There and many more questions await the great and powerful list's calculated responses. Stephen Dolan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 12:01:39 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment Jamuga Khan wrote: > > Well, it's not the AD&D-paladin-like "lawful good", but we can argue > that he knows the peril which Atzanteotl is. As presenting the SE > as an evil and scrupulous race he is protecting them from closer > interest as A-Snake is content to see their evilness. Well, I'm just not sure that Rafiel is good in this case because he opposes Atzanteotl. They both are causing people to sacrifice others (Atzanteotl the Azcans and Rafiel the shadow elf children). Rafiel may not be allowing the children to die but the mothers have no idea of that. They're both opposing their will on others. - -- Timothy R. Haney galwylin@airnet.net The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 19:59:16 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E0=E9=EC=EF_=F9=E7=ED?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves Alignment Jamuga Khan wrote: >Not to forget Israel which is the "Realm of Evil" for many, many countries. hmmhhmm...(stoping my self from saing something very politicaly in correct...) I actualy wish I would have lived in a "Realm of Evil" (enough said about the conection between RPGs and satanism...) however to my dismay the people around here are boring as people all over the world. about the Iraqies, i don't think the general population thinks the USA to be an evil country as people on TV say what Ssadam Hussain wants them to say. You can't attach a national alignment beacause every individual has a different one. in a totalitaric nation (like hule) you can give the nation the alignment of its leader however that wont reflect the combined alignments of the nations populace. In democratic nations it is imposible to attach any alignment at all since the system is to complex for that. thats why the USA, Gemany AND Israel cant be classified as NG CE or whatever. Morphail- an Israely soldier and patriot...(sortoff) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 20:43:24 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves of Mystara > Håvard, please don't believe that I will protest everytime you make a > statement, > but this not true! > > The Alfheim Elves were in Sylvan and the Callarii, the Vyalias and the > Shiye, but not the Shadow Elves, the Wood Elves and the Water Elves from > Minrothad, the Belcadiz Elves, the Blacklores, the Icevale Elves, the > Gentle Folk, the Schattenalfen and all elves on the Savage Coast. You are right. My statement was very unprecice. Thanks for clearing up the details that I didnt have time to check :) Haavard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #24 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message.