mystara-digest Wednesday, February 3 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 047 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Query to the Panel... Re: [MYSTARA] - A Query to the Panel... Re: [MYSTARA] - How do i sign up for the AD&D MML Re: [MYSTARA] - Penhaligion Re: [MYSTARA] - Penhaligion Re: [MYSTARA] - Campaign Poll Re: [MYSTARA] - Penhaligion Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - How do i sign up for the AD&D MML Re: [MYSTARA] - A Query to the Panel... Re: LEVEL LIMITS: WAS: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Penhaligion Re: [MYSTARA] - Penhaligon Re: LEVEL LIMITS: WAS: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Campaign poll Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about Voyage of Princess Ark [MYSTARA] - Another WotI nitpick (was: Wrath of the Immortals) Re: [MYSTARA] - Path of Conqueror [MYSTARA] - Silver Dragons in OD&D Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Another WotI nitpick (was: Wrath of the Immortals) Re: [MYSTARA] - Penhaligion Re: [MYSTARA] - Another WotI nitpick (was: Wrath of the Immortals) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 14:53:13 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Query to the Panel... In a message dated 2/2/99 12:23:32 PM Central Standard Time, rmunch@easynet.co.uk writes: << So - 4th circle alchemy can duplicate raise dead, and it can also be used to create golems (among other things). Would you say that it could place a soul into a golem body - a combination of the two? Votes, please! (£10 if you say yes :) >> Well since the whole Alchemy thing is weird anyway, i would say its possible, but please sends dollars...not pounds :) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 20:48:00 +0100 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?=" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Query to the Panel... > > I'm currently playing a character from Mystara, in another DMs game. It so > happens that I have the 4th circle of Alchemy (Glantrian wiz, me :) > and I have a little query. > > Since he knows little about Mystara (we are just playing characters from > different campaign worlds in a Planescape bash) he asked me if I would pose > this query to all of you, as you are somewhat more independent than I am. :) > > So - 4th circle alchemy can duplicate raise dead, and it can also be used to > create golems (among other things). Would you say that it could place a > soul into a golem body - a combination of the two? I would daresay that golems can only be animated by a strong elemental (quasi- or para- included) force bonded to a material body. This is what the Circle of Alchemy deals with. Golems, such as flesh golems, DO show souls, but I would prefer to think that these are souls of their own, not something picked and chosen by their creator (think of the original Frankenstein novel). The only way to link a soul to a nonliving body, barring a Wish, would be IMO a Magic Jar spell. If your PC is a clever mage and has the power (something probable, if he has reached the 4th Circle), he may build a golem and them use Trap the Soul or Magic Jar to "fix" a soul to it. Of course, the life force should be "collected" before the subject dies. I cannot think of a way of putting a dead soul into a non-living being (in living beings it can be done through Reincarnate), excepting perhaps via a Wish. Anyway, if you are playing a PS campaign, be wary of what you are trying to "raise". Most Powers may accept having their supplicants raised (they usually end up dying again), but trapping one faithful soul into a container for eternity (in theory) coudl bring you an unpleasant "message" given by one proxy or two. Andrés *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 21:00:12 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - How do i sign up for the AD&D MML On Tue, 2 Feb 1999, paul dooley wrote: > >Each one is set up like its own little world complete with its own > gods. > >Add a new nation, you create a new pantheon. > Shocking isn`t it, sort of like the real world. Don`t forget that most > cultures used to believe that their Gods were real and that the > neighbours version of the same god was, at best, an inferior > manifestation, for he saved his true splendor for those of the faith, > down to `this demon MUST be detroyed`. It`s usuall a conquered territory > whose gods are just said to definately be manifestations of the winning > nations gods. Rome did just that. Actually, people did not always believe other deities to be inferior or connected to their own gods at all. Vikings often honoured other gods when they visited other lands, as it was common belief that there were different gods for various geographical regions. However, initiation into another religion (ie. becoming a christian) was considered to be betrayal of ones own gods and would lead to exclusion from their home community. Håvard, thinking this could have some relevance to Mystara... *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:21:17 -0500 (EST) From: Frederic Ferro Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Penhaligion On Tue, 2 Feb 1999, [iso-8859-1] Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: > Basically there is the Story of Flinn, a knight who, because of the > green dragon Verdilith has been dishonoured. Oh, another name for the list of Mystaran dragons. :-) Is this dragon male? Does he live near the Dymrak forest? > Can't say I liked any of this, although the first > book is quite good IMO. The Mystaran novels (like some Oerth novels) have not a reputation of quality or consistency (are the Savage Coast novels better?). In fact, the only good TSR novels I've read were those by Jeff Grubb. It's a pity Bruce Heard did not publish any Mystaran novels except the short stories in the game supplements. Fred *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 21:41:01 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Penhaligion On Tue, 2 Feb 1999, Frederic Ferro wrote: > On Tue, 2 Feb 1999, [iso-8859-1] Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: > > Basically there is the Story of Flinn, a knight who, because of the > > green dragon Verdilith has been dishonoured. > > Oh, another name for the list of Mystaran dragons. :-) > Is this dragon male? Does he live near the Dymrak forest? Yes, i believe he is male. He has also made a deal with Alphaks which has made him able to take human form. I think Verdilith lives in the same region as Argos, the mountains east of Penhaligion. I suggest that he is a servant of Argos. > > Can't say I liked any of this, although the first > > book is quite good IMO. > > The Mystaran novels (like some Oerth novels) have not a reputation > of quality or consistency (are the Savage Coast novels better?). > In fact, the only good TSR novels I've read were those by Jeff Grubb. > It's a pity Bruce Heard did not publish any Mystaran novels except > the short stories in the game supplements. The Dragonlord novels were okay, although they had some weird elements whcih didn't feel quite Mystaran. Jeff Grub's Dark Knight of Karameikos was well written, but the end part where he brings in the Bloodwar and the comment from the fiend: "Mystara, is that that hollow one?" was an absolute turn-off. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 16:51:51 -0500 From: "Ron Murphy" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Campaign Poll Hey all... > >> 1. Where is your campaign based? I have two running currently...one is based in a small barony north of Krakatos named Estarios and the other started out in Darokin at the end of the Master's invasion. The main villian of the campaign tricked the party into a portal that led to Sigil (Planescape) and they have been spending entirely too much time there (much to the villian's delight!) >> 2. What is the power-level? How many characters are there? 1st campaign....10 to 11th D&D....seven characters 2nd campaign....5-7 AD&D with adapted Weapon Mastery Rules (which means I have to plan adventures slightly higher) >> 3. How long has it been running? (Both in-game and off-game) 1st campaign...over four years but not on a regular basis anymore...timespan--1004 AC to 1008 AC 2nd campaign...almost a year now...the year that the PC's left Mystara was 1006 AC, but they believe that a lot of time has passed on Mystara relative to when they left. >> 4. Have you been in other major campaigns? I ran a massive Waterdeep campaign that lasted two years. The characters only left the city once during two years of game time... >> 5. Other things about it I think my greatest attribute as a DM is my ability to create a nice over-arching storyline that creates lots of cohesion and keeps players interested in what is going on. I love to drop hints and clues over long periods of time and then watch the players piece everything together slowly. - -- Ron rmurphy@terran-ent.com Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are chewy and taste great dipped in chocolate. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:44:58 EST From: Demmero@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Penhaligion In a message dated 2/2/99 3:45:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no writes: << The Dragonlord novels were okay, although they had some weird elements whcih didn't feel quite Mystaran. Jeff Grub's Dark Knight of Karameikos was well written, but the end part where he brings in the Bloodwar and the comment from the fiend: "Mystara, is that that hollow one?" was an absolute turn-off. >> Nitpick--Don't blame Jeff Grubb for "Dark Knight of Karameikos"...that stinker was written by Timothy Brown. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:50:42 EST From: Demmero@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara In a message dated 2/2/99 6:53:06 AM Eastern Standard Time, geckoes@ozemail.com.au writes: << PS, saw on the submission guidelines pages for TSR that Dungeon exhaustively lists the settings it accepts contributions for, including old settings, but specifcally NOT "D&D", and Mystara is not listed in the paragraph of campaign worlds they do accept for. >> I wrote to Chris Perkins (editor of DUNGEON) last year and he told me that he had no problems with publishing Mystara modules...provided they're good ones, of course. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 19:29:52 -0500 From: Jerry Hovenanian Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - How do i sign up for the AD&D MML SteelAngel wrote: > On Tue, 2 Feb 1999, paul dooley wrote: > > > WRONG!! Maybe Immortals are more powerful than `Avatars` but the gods > > themselves are way out of most immortals league. > > SUNDAY SUNDAY SUNDAY!!! > > Mystra vs. Ixion, live at the Worcester Centrum! > > See blazing godlike energies fly in a battle to the DEATH! > > You'll buy the whole seat but you'll only need the EDGE!!!!! > > Ethan LMAO....I'll put $50 Mystra...I heard Elminster is in her conner :) - -- Jerry Hovenanian clumsydwarf@hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 00:31:37 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Query to the Panel... >I would daresay that golems can only be animated by a strong elemental >(quasi- or para- included) force bonded to a material body. This is what >the Circle of Alchemy deals with. Golems, such as flesh golems, DO show >souls, but I would prefer to think that these are souls of their own, not >something picked and chosen by their creator (think of the original >Frankenstein novel). The only way to link a soul to a nonliving body, >barring a Wish, would be IMO a Magic Jar spell. If your PC is a clever mage >and has the power (something probable, if he has reached the 4th Circle), >he may build a golem and them use Trap the Soul or Magic Jar to "fix" a >soul to it. Of course, the life force should be "collected" before the >subject dies. I cannot think of a way of putting a dead soul into a >non-living being (in living beings it can be done through Reincarnate), >excepting perhaps via a Wish. Anyway, if you are playing a PS campaign, be >wary of what you are trying to "raise". Most Powers may accept having their >supplicants raised (they usually end up dying again), but trapping one >faithful soul into a container for eternity (in theory) coudl bring you an >unpleasant "message" given by one proxy or two. Excellent thoughts here - (not sure if i'll pass it on tho :). We are straying into dubious necromancy here tho, which is what I suspected (and wanted to avoid). Which is what the DM did reckon. Van Richten would turn in his grave... Depends on what sort of animating force you consider a golem to have, i suppose. Which is upto the DM. (soul, elemental spirit, whatever). Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 21:30:07 -0500 From: Andrew Toth Subject: Re: LEVEL LIMITS: WAS: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara At 05:42 PM 2/2/99 +1100, you wrote: > >I had one >female player who didn't like the idea of immortality at all, and her >character was going to live on in song and story as it was so she just >played on, accumulating xp t ogo up technical levels every x,00,000 xp, >but the only effect of the extra levels was to increase her chance of >having "hallucinatory" contact with deeific beings and elemental powers. >We inherited a 1edn AD&D attitude from a mentor-DM at school, whose >campaign "officially" ended when you hit level 52 (not that anyone ever >did or came close), but it was always generally agreed that levels were >open-ended, and after the last level that had some applicable rule was >reached, you were in it for seniority and satisfaction rather than the >extra hit point. > On the other hand, maybe for extra experience, you could say, award another NWP slot, or WP slot at every x number exp pts after reaching a certain very high level. Beyowulf Steely Blue Dragon -==UDIC==- |/ "Ours is not to reason why, but to blow this joint before we die" -Ratrap, BeastWars *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 21:44:25 -0500 From: Andrew Toth Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Penhaligion At 03:21 PM 2/2/99 -0500, you wrote: >The Mystaran novels (like some Oerth novels) have not a reputation >of quality or consistency (are the Savage Coast novels better?). >In fact, the only good TSR novels I've read were those by Jeff Grubb. >It's a pity Bruce Heard did not publish any Mystaran novels except >the short stories in the game supplements. There are Savage Coast novels? I've not heard of any. Beyowulf Steely Blue Dragon -==UDIC==- |/ "Ours is not to reason why, but to blow this joint before we die" -Ratrap, BeastWars *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 22:06:46 -0500 (EST) From: Frederic Ferro Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Penhaligon On Tue, 2 Feb 1999, Andrew Toth wrote: > There are Savage Coast novels? I've not heard of any. There is at least one: Black Vessel by Simon Norris. Fred *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 22:07:58 EST From: EzJ25@aol.com Subject: Re: LEVEL LIMITS: WAS: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara In a message dated 2/2/99 9:20:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, beyowulf@pipeline.com writes: << On the other hand, maybe for extra experience, you could say, award another NWP slot, or WP slot at every x number exp pts after reaching a certain very high level. >> OD&D awards those after gaining the maximum levels for your class. Too bad AD&D is soooo structured and specific about EVERYTHING. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 23:22:39 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Morris Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Campaign poll Since I'm new to the list, and I've been enjoying everyone else's responses to this poll, I thought I'd share mine. On Fri, 29 Jan 1999, Markus Olavi Montola wrote: > Here's another poll! > > 1. Where is your campaign based? I'm just starting up a new 1st level campaign in Karameikos, specifically around the Threshold area. Just feeling nostalgic for the first long-term campaign I ever ran, I guess... > 2. What is the power-level? How many characters are there? All 1st level characters (right now). Just starting up a new campaign after moving to a new area and finding some people who are actually interested in playing D&D (instead of AD&D) again. > 3. How long has it been running? (Both in-game and off-game) Less than 1 month. > 4. Have you been in other major campaigns? Quite a few over the years. I had one long-running campaign years ago that lasted over 4 years. It was set in Mystara (or, as we knew it then, the Known World) and it was based in Threshold too. We didn't get to Immortal level in that game by any means, but I did have a player gain his own Barony in Karameikos and another became an instructor at the Great School of Magic. I'm hoping to do some different things with this campaign - a kind of "back to basics" approach after playing a lot of other different RPGs. > 5. Other things about it We're playing with modified OD&D rules. AD&D is fun, but it just isn't Mystara (like some other people have mentioned). However, I've modified it so that all of the races can be any class. Instead of using level limits, I'm trying out an XP penalty like the one that Bruce Heard suggested for Lupin and Rakasta characters in the Voyage of the Princess Ark. I'm really enjoying all of the discussion on this list, and I'm glad to see that my favorite campaing setting ever is still being enjoyed by so many people. Maybe someday TSR will have an excuse to bring it back again... - --- Jeremy Morris (jjmorris@donet.com) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 22:59:18 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about Voyage of Princess Ark In regard to the reprinting of the Princess Ark articles - -- now I am more eager than ever to see that CD-ROM archive(now scheduled for September, according to the latest news I have read) published. Since it is supposed to include every issue through #250, Bruce Heard's entire Princess Ark and Known World Grimoire series would both be included. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 23:16:07 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: [MYSTARA] - Another WotI nitpick (was: Wrath of the Immortals) >Saving the day by >reprogramming a nuclear engine (push right button) is ***BORE***, >especially as the happy-happy -end makes it drain power from the Sphere >of Entropy. Just to try and kick off another round of WotI-bashing -- Hey, the last one was fun, wasn't it? ;-) -- I thought I'd throw a question into the ring: What possible motive could the Old One have had, for making the Nucleus drain Entropy, BESIDES "it makes a neat 'happy ending' for a module"? After all, the Old One's chastisement of Rad and Ixion indicated that they had both offended against their "proper role" in the cosmos, i.e. had stepped out of line, so far as their duties to Energy were concerned. OTOH, the central Entropics in the module -- Atzanteotl, Hel, and Alphaks - -- were all doing EXACTLY what their Sphere says they're supposed to do: cause things to collapse/break down. By that logic, there's no reason Entropy should be punished; its Immortals were just doing their jobs (and a lot better than Rad or Ixion were doing theirs, too), all along! Isn't it a little strange, that the Old Ones -- whom we'd expect to be above the petty conflicts between Spheres -- should suddenly be taking sides and doing something nasty to the Entropics ... especially when it's Energy, NOT Entropy, which incited the conflict in the first place? Bruce Heard on the MMB has suggested that Entropy was chosen, because "draining" Entropic force might not actually diminish it -- annihilating "annihilation" creates as much Entropy as it destroys, in his opinion -- thus rendering the Nucleus harmless to Mystara and to all five Spheres. However, there's bound to be other explanations for the Old One's out-of-character behavior. If so ... let's hear 'em! :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 23:45:35 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Path of Conqueror >> I'd never had that impression myself. Founding a kingdom (even if it's all >> humanoids), or building stuff like high-quality war machines, sounds far >> too "constructive" to be suitable for Entropy; the Conqueror seems more >> like a modified Dynast, with a little bit of Paragon thrown in. > >Here we must distinguish the intent of the Conqueror from the intent of his >presumably Entropic sponsor. I thought about this distinction after you mentioned it, Kaviyd, and I think I've figured out what's bugging me about it: It's that it advances the personal agenda of one's sponsor, but ONLY by working against the greater purpose of the desired Sphere! Building a nation -- even a chaotic and violent one -- is still a constructive act, no matter to what purpose that nation might ultimately be turned; as such, it actually diminishes Entropy's role in the cosmos, every bit as much as a Dynast's nation-building does. (Saying one's sponsor will let the place go to pot, and use it to disrupt other nations in the meanwhile, can't alter the fact that you're actively imposing order on a universe in which Entropy is supposed to erode and disrupt order, not increase it.) For an Entropic-wannabe to organize ANYthing, in Entropy's name, would be as counterproductive as a Matter-wannabe creating a 100' pillar of hard vacuum, and would belie an aspirant's having passed the initial seven tests of commitment to the Entropic cause. A much better scenario for attaining Immortality in the Sphere of Entropy is the Path of the Fiend, from Stan's Archive, IMHO. That Path has would-be Entropics trying to corrupt already-existing nations ... a requirement that doesn't violate the underlying precepts of the Sphere in question, and which causes just as much trouble with considerably less groundwork. It could also help account for several of the darkest periods in Mystara's past, if Entropic candidates were behind them (e.g. Nithia's last Pharaoh might have been on the Fiend's Path). Remember, it's the Spheres that set the rules, not the individual sponsors! Otherwise, no two Immortals in the same Sphere would require the same Quest, Testimony, or Trial ... they'd all make up their own. Not that I'm saying Entropics can't found nations, once they've actually attained Immortality; but getting into the Sphere in the first placed should require VERY stringent adherence to Entropic principles, just like any other Sphere does. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 23:46:45 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Silver Dragons in OD&D Mystara I had 10 mins and came up with this. If anyone doesn't like it, don't use it! ;-) The Silver Dragon Small Large Huge Armor Class: 2 0 -2 Hit Dice: 5** 10*** 15**** Move: 90' (30') 120' (40') 150' (50') Flying Move: 240' (80') 300' (100') 360' (120') Attacks Ground: 2 claws/1 bite 2 claws/1 bite 2 claws/1 bite Air: Up to 6 Up to 6 Up to 6 Damage: See Below See Below See Below Breath Cone: 90'x30' 135'x30' 180'x30' Number Appearing: 1d4 (1d4) 1d3 (1d3) 1d2 (1d2) Save As: Elf 5 Elf 10 Elf 15 Morale: 10 10 10 Treasure Type: F Fx2, G Fx2, Gx2, O Intelligence: 9 12 15 Alignment: Lawful Lawful Lawful XP Value: 975 4,750 9,000 Dragon Breath Weapon, Talking/Spell Use and Asleep Breath Weapon Breath Shape Chance of Talking/Spells Chance of Being Asleep Paralytic Gas Cone 100% 5% Dragon Damage Size Bite or Crush Claws, Kicks, Tail and Wings Small 2d8 1d4 each Large 2d8+4 1d6+1 each Huge 2d8+8 1d8+2 Silver Dragon Spells 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th Small 5 5 4 3 - - Large 5 5 5 4 3 - Huge 6 6 5 5 4 4 Very rarely seen, silver dragons are similar in size to white and crystal dragons. They are highly magical in nature, being superior to even gold dragons. They are interested in locating and devising magical spells and items and spend great amounts of time in and around large communities and cities, especially those that lay along trade routes. Like golds, silver dragons can polymorph into a humanoid form. Silver dragons are restricted to one specific humanoid identity however. Usually this is elven or half-elven, as silver dragons may cast their spells in either form and elves are known for their magical inclinations. The breath weapon of silver dragons is a cone of paralatic gas. Creatures in the area of effect that fail their saving throw vs breath weapon are paralyzed for 1 turn. Those making the save are slowed for 5 rounds (as the spell). Silver dragons lair in mountains near a large city. They travel far afield in search of food, so as not to attract attention of a dragon in the area. They are atypical of most others of their kind as they thrive on the company of the mammal races, especially humans and elves. Most silvers have a wilderness lair and a "lair" in a nearby town. Silver dragons have all the standard attack and defense modes of all dragons (Rules Cyclopedia p170). Better info on the way. Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 01:09:24 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Another WotI nitpick (was: Wrath of the Immortals) In a message dated 1999-02-02 23:19:37 Eastern Standard Time, dornhoff@bio.umass.edu writes: > What possible motive could the Old One have had, for making the Nucleus > drain Entropy, BESIDES "it makes a neat 'happy ending' for a module"? Okay, this explanation is a bit far out, but let's give it a try -- the Old One was actually rewarding the Sphere of Entropy because its members are the only ones who kept to their proper roles. It will just take several years for the Immortals to realize what the Old One has really done.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 22:18:07 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Penhaligion >There are Savage Coast novels? I've not heard of any. _The Black Vessel_, a Mystara novel set in the SC. I just finished it a couple of weeks ago, as a matter of fact. I enjoyed it quite a bit; it has good characterization, although the climax was a bit flat. Jenn Explore Dark Myst Manor! http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 22:29:38 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Another WotI nitpick (was: Wrath of the Immortals) Kaviyd wrote: >Okay, this explanation is a bit far out, but let's give it a try -- the Old >One >was actually rewarding the Sphere of Entropy because its members are >the only ones who kept to their proper roles. It will just take several years >for the Immortals to realize what the Old One has Hey!--That's a really cool idea! (Wish I had thought of it;-) Jenn (who wishes she had something more engaging to say besides "that's neat) 8-)~ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #47 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, February 3 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 048 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: RE: [MYSTARA] - Another WotI nitpick (was: Wrath of the Immortals ) Re: [MYSTARA] - Penhaligion Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about Voyage of Princess Ark RE: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Penhaligion [MYSTARA] - Question about Scolls of Communication Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals [MYSTARA] - Campaign Poll Re: [MYSTARA] - Spells Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Pointlessness of gods and immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Pointlessness of gods and immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - A Query to the Panel... Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - How do i sign up for the AD&D MML Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals RE: [MYSTARA] - A Query to the Panel... RE: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - How do i sign up for the AD&D MML Re: [MYSTARA] - Another WotI nitpick (was: Wrath of the Immortals) Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:58:31 +0800 From: Murphy Jason Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Another WotI nitpick (was: Wrath of the Immortals ) This explanation is assuming that robbing "energy" from entropy is in fact beneficial to them, which when thought of logically may be valid. However the "spirit" of the action really does seem intended as a punishment. And I still cant bring myself to fully believe that taking power from entropy and dispersing it in Mystara for use is really a good thing for entropy. Having said that I still believe yours is a damn good answer. It appeals to the whole "Old ones are thinking on an entirely different level from us." idea. Which makes it a groovy explanation in deed :) And while I am on this thinking on a different level deal. I notice some ppl didn't like the idea of the Immortal behaving like spoiled 3 year olds. Well I guess from a theological slant they are just keeping with tradition. As can be plainly seen nearly all mythological figures from history participated in petty and juvenile activities. In fact I would be hard pressed to find one deity that hadn't done something fairly immature. Even the christian God played a practical joke on someone (was it Abraham) asking him to sacrifice his son and then at the last minute saying "April fools"!!!! And of course the greek mythos is riddles with pettiness. Anyway needless to say I would find it unusual to see worshipped figures behave any differently. After all immortals are really just mortals with a god complex and a shyte load of power to back it up. Oops, ridiculing God!!! I am really open to a flame now. Jason Murphy Software Engineer MITS Limited EMAIL:  HYPERLINK mailto:jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au PHONE: 08 9481 4066 FAX: 08 9481 4064 -----Original Message----- From: Kaviyd@aol.com [SMTP:Kaviyd@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 2:09 PM To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Another WotI nitpick (was: Wrath of the Immortals) In a message dated 1999-02-02 23:19:37 Eastern Standard Time, dornhoff@bio.umass.edu writes: > What possible motive could the Old One have had, for making the Nucleus > drain Entropy, BESIDES "it makes a neat 'happy ending' for a module"? Okay, this explanation is a bit far out, but let's give it a try -- the Old One was actually rewarding the Sphere of Entropy because its members are the only ones who kept to their proper roles. It will just take several years for the Immortals to realize what the Old One has really done.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:33:25 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Penhaligion >There are Savage Coast novels? I've not heard of any. Theres one, the Black Vessel. (That I know of). I thought it was rather good - certainly better than the Dragonlord trilogy. But then, I like the Savage Coast, and as its the only novel using that setting, I may be biased :) Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 19:44:11 +1100 (EST) From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about Voyage of Princess Ark Well, as an actual lawyer, I can suggest one easy way around this, add 25% extra volume as comment, genuine reviews of the articles, fanzine contributions and so on, plaster "free - not for sale or resale - fair comment only" and "not approved by TSR/WoTC" - then there is 'no cntest' offered to copyright, and if it is only privately emailed to people who agree not to distribute it, bingo, you're in business. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 03:24:16 PST From: "paul dooley" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara >TSR wouldn't want to sabotage their flagship product! > So they just let it die of neglect? :P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 03:49:19 PST From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals >1)Is the WotI meant to be a whole campaign about the war involving the PCs, or is there just one epic adventure involved? > There are three interlinked adventures and a few ideas as to what PC`s might do during the entire timeline. However the timeline couldn`t stand the interference of even ONE Initiate Immortal who actually used the abilities granted them by the Codex. >2)Where abouts does the most of it take place, as far as where the PCs are that stop the Nucleus of the Spheres? > first is in northern Darokin, last ends up in Glantri via Thyatis, Hollow World and pretty much rest of Known world if you put some thought into it. Some of those sugestions for PC involvement can with some work become quite playable. Except of course for the great fire of Aalsa. Where a huge hole has been left due to the fact that within 1 day of same the magical might of Alphatia would have reduced this down to a small firework show (1000 36th level mages with 9 wishes each! Where were even half a dozen of them?) >3)And, what levels are this campaign/adventure set for? > the initial adventure works great as an old fashioned 1st level dungeonbash the middle one is 8thish if memory serves and the big finale is in the teens. All OD&D of course. (No I`m not putting down AD&D but WotI was written for the other set of rules) BTW my personal view of the croc which is now the official timeline doesn`t extend to the stirling work of those on this list who have managed to almost turn a sow`s ear into a silk purse. Hamlet 1,v,166 Paul ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 04:00:38 PST From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara >Well, IMC Emperor Thincol is/was a level 30 AD&D fighter. I was sick of all >these super high level mages, why not a super high level fighter? > Unfortunately when we`re at this altitude you don`t get anywhere near the bang for a buck from a fighter as a mage. 3hp and some more weapon and non weapon slots occasionally vs. 1hp and more zaps and more proficiencies. Don`t forget also official now is thac0 doesn`t improve beyond 20th level score. Then again they`re only `RULZ` so bugger that for a game of dominoes. Hamlet 1,v,166 Paul ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:59:37 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Penhaligion On Tue, 2 Feb 1999 Demmero@aol.com wrote: > Nitpick--Don't blame Jeff Grubb for "Dark Knight of Karameikos"...that stinker > was written by Timothy Brown. Whooops! Sorry about that one. Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 07:03:48 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Question about Scolls of Communication Would they work if you were on the outside of the moons or on a different planet in the system? They are technically in the same plane of existance? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 04:26:14 PST From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals but I am satisfied with the WotI. >A fine product. > Pardon!! Lets see my preteen (they`ll loathe me using that phrase) kids were more on the ball than some of the Immortals who actually bothered to turn up. How come those Immortals whose followers were killed and werenot in any of the factions didn`t do anything to save themselves? Remember the rules for strokes. The `meteor` was just a copout because cleric prays Immoral hears prayer sends an underling to check it out reports matter to whichever council, meteor put back in proper orbit, track down who tried and failed to do this. Ilsundal didn`t even TRY to find out what was happening to Alfheim, hang on isn`t that where a majority of his followers are? Major stroke in offing and not a single attempt to counter it. I put up earlier my thoughts on Meliadin. Who, should have found out where those MORTAL shadowelves where based and sent in suicide squads of elves with scrolls of spells, after taking cuttings to regrow the valiant from ofcourse, swho`re teleported intothe areas which are actuall being used for the magic or at least nearby with mission to Search and Destroy and take as many of them with you as possible. Alphatia engages in a long sea and land battle to getnear Glantri. Why? build Gates to plain of Air Fixed point to point teleporters and start waging war within Glantri. The classic Alphatian teleport into the sky above Glantri City. The writer, apparently, wasn`t aware that teleport requires a solid surface as a destination. OK a few enterprising mages will have a better version but not ALL of them. The list is almost endless. In fact the things that are most likely to actually happen are those in which no Immortal plays a part, because, unlike WotI, nobody buggers off and allows you to do your thing in peace. Throw a rock at a Megalith, burn a city, engage in major deforestation etc. Hamlet 1,v,166 Paul ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 07:28:31 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Campaign Poll Can someone post the original one again...i didnt get a chance to fill it out....sorry Thanks Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 04:33:58 PST From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spells >Most of the others are your usual firey death type spells... > What you mean no Shareth`s Somatic Substitution? I created it for a mage who needed the dex ac bonus a whole lot as the warriors had this unfortunate habit if dying leaving me in MELEE!! Kame in handy when combined with vocalise as prepared spells would just go off, taking their components with them, with no evidence that I had actually cast them Hamlet 1,v,166 Paul ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 04:38:28 PST From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara >PS, saw on the submission guidelines pages for TSR that Dungeon >exhaustively lists the settings it accepts contributions for, including >old settings, but specifcally NOT "D&D", and Mystara is not listed in the >paragraph of campaign worlds they do accept for. > Have to write a Ravenloft for that Mystaran realm then wont you. ;P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 04:43:29 PST From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Pointlessness of gods and immortals >This conversation is quite pointless, for we must first define what we >mean with 'god'? > I was sort of thinking about the `canon` of Legends and Lore produced by the same company who created WotI. The only usefu canon is that which agrees with MY point of view! :P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 04:45:54 PST From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Pointlessness of gods and immortals >This conversation is quite pointless, for we must first define what we >mean with 'god'? > I was sort of thinking about the `canon` of Legends and Lore produced by the same company who created WotI. The only usefu canon is that which agrees with MY point of view! :P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 04:57:09 PST From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara >I just try to counter it by giving single classes nifty abilities and >maximum benefit of the doubt over single classed guys. > And I`m the one with brain damage? Say what you mean not what you THINK you mean. (THAT felt GOOOOD! It`s been so long since I did that) Hamlet 1,v,166 Paul ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 13:11:43 +0000 From: gordon@ucd.ie Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals > but I am satisfied with the WotI. > >A fine product. > > > Pardon!! I did wonder why the Alphatians didn't splat the Galntrians in about 5 seconds alright. As for Ilsundal not trying, well, add some of that stuff into your campaign! The set had only 96 pages to detail 6 years of happenings, they had to leave out a lot. Some rationalisation here (which maybe shouldn't have to be needed - but hey, I like WotI :) ) Meteor - yup, they did see it, the council couldn't agree what to do about it. Alphaks was unsubtle, but not so unsubtle as to make it blatantly obvious that it was interfered with, it could be a natural event, and the Immortals argued over what to do and made no decision in the end. Alfheim - The elves *do* fight back, but with their general being a shadowelf, they just don't do that well. Troops are sent underground and die. The trees continue to die too, magical battles take place to reverse the growth but in the end the SElves win. > Alphatia engages in a long sea and land battle to get near > Glantri. Why? Because they're fighting Thyatis. Jumping in and wasting Glantri wouldn't stop the Thyatians from attacking. Course it would get rid of Galntri...hmmm, you're right I have no idea either, anyone?!?!? :) > In fact the things that are most likely to > actually happen are those in which no Immortal plays a part, because, > unlike WotI, nobody buggers off and allows you to do your thing in > peace. Throw a rock at a Megalith, burn a city, engage in major > deforestation etc. Fair point. gordon Gordon McCormick, System Management UCD Computing Services,Belfield, Dublin 4 ph. +353 1 7062017 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 05:12:44 PST From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Query to the Panel... >So - 4th circle alchemy can duplicate raise dead, and it can also be used= > to >create golems (among other things). Would you say that it could place a >soul into a golem body - a combination of the two? > >Votes, please! (=A310 if you say yes :) > GM call. If it`s a case of munchkinitis then put the little (insert explotive here) downright now. Go on, DO IT! If this is more along the lines of enriching the campaign then yes. Think of all the fun when an Auld Gnomish spindle is required for maintenance. Actuall I`ve changed my mind, what little there is left of it, give this to the munchkin, then tell him it needs their most powerful 25 items in order to replenish it`s fluxdecaying powercore. Even munchkins will notice that level of itemloss. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:23:25 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara In a message dated 2/3/99 7:02:24 AM Eastern Standard Time, ezaqwazy@hotmail.com writes: << Don`t forget also official now is thac0 doesn`t improve beyond 20th level score. Then again they`re only `RULZ` so bugger that for a game of dominoes. >> Add the High Level Campaigns book to your AD&D Mystara game, you're fighters will love you for it! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 05:26:36 PST From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - How do i sign up for the AD&D MML >Vikings often honoured other gods when they visited other lands, as it was common belief that there were different gods for various geographical regions. So I got the different gods bit right at least? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:33:53 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals In a message dated 2/3/99 7:27:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, ezaqwazy@hotmail.com writes: << I put up earlier my thoughts on Meliadin. Who, should have found out where those MORTAL shadowelves where based and sent in suicide squads of elves with scrolls of spells, after taking cuttings to regrow the valiant from ofcourse, swho`re teleported intothe areas which are actuall being used for the magic or at least nearby with mission to Search and Destroy and take as many of them with you as possible. >> If ye're interested in creating suicide squads, look to the human brothers of yer own kind. Elves have a different view of the world and the things that happen in it. When yer life extends for centuries instead of decades, a more long term approach is thought of. I'm sure my brothers will get what they deserve in due time, but not until it is the proper time. That's the elven way my short lived friend. Of course, that's assuming that the other elven Immortals haven't decided that it's time we became one again. I've personally wondered why Illsundal, Calitha, Eiryndul and Mealiden didn't alert their faithful ahead of time, mayhap it is all a test for each side? Arminath Wynter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:36:32 +0100 From: Kristian Kramer Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - A Query to the Panel... Hmm, not all munchkins. 'Cause for a real munchkin 25 (most powerful) items is just a mere 1% of his whole stock of magical items. It's just difficult for him/her to think in which of his many castles and houses and whatnot he/she stashed the lot. Although munchkins have been known to keep an extensive database system (SQL based or something like that) of their inventory. Anyways, I say: "Yes!", a combination of the two. U can use it to raise dead and make golems. But you do need a soul to get the whole thing 'started'. A kick in the b*tt won't do. Now all you have to do is find the right soul... and those 25 most powerful items. BTW, this question is gonna cost you a fortune. So far I didn't read a "No"... Kristian "Courage isn't just a matter of not being frightened, you know. It's being afraid and doing what you have to do anyway." The Doctor (Planet of the Daleks, 1973) > -----Original Message----- > From: paul dooley [SMTP:ezaqwazy@hotmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 2:13 PM > To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Query to the Panel... > > > >So - 4th circle alchemy can duplicate raise dead, and it can also be > used= > > to > >create golems (among other things). Would you say that it could place > a > >soul into a golem body - a combination of the two? > > > >Votes, please! (=A310 if you say yes :) > > > GM call. If it`s a case of munchkinitis then put the little (insert > explotive here) downright now. Go on, DO IT! If this is more along the > lines of enriching the campaign then yes. Think of all the fun when an > Auld Gnomish spindle is required for maintenance. Actuall I`ve changed > my mind, what little there is left of it, give this to the munchkin, > then tell him it needs their most powerful 25 items in order to > replenish it`s fluxdecaying powercore. Even munchkins will notice that > level of itemloss. > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ************************************************************************** > * > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the > line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:38:17 +0100 From: Kristian Kramer Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara I'm confused. Do you mean he should mean what he doesn't think he means, even when he means that he thinks what he means? > -----Original Message----- > From: paul dooley [SMTP:ezaqwazy@hotmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 1:57 PM > To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara > > >I just try to counter it by giving single classes nifty abilities and > >maximum benefit of the doubt over single classed guys. > > > And I`m the one with brain damage? Say what you mean not what you THINK > you mean. (THAT felt GOOOOD! It`s been so long since I did that) > > > Hamlet 1,v,166 > > Paul > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ************************************************************************** > * > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the > line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 05:37:18 PST From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - How do i sign up for the AD&D MML >LMAO....I'll put $50 Mystra...I heard Elminster is in her conner :) > Foul! She`s got a mortal with more power than most gods on her side. Mind you E`s supposed to have an eye for the ladies so why not Valerias with Ixion? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 05:52:06 PST From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Another WotI nitpick (was: Wrath of the Immortals) >> What possible motive could the Old One have had, for making the Nucleus >> drain Entropy, BESIDES "it makes a neat 'happy ending' for a module"? > >Okay, this explanation is a bit far out, but let's give it a try -- the Old >One >was actually rewarding the Sphere of Entropy because its members are >the only ones who kept to their proper roles. It will just take several years >for the Immortals to realize what the Old One has really done.... There`s also senilit, insanity, boredon,vindictiveness and the worst of all REALLY BAD WRITING. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:59:08 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara >Unfortunately when we`re at this altitude you don`t get anywhere near >the bang for a buck from a fighter as a mage. 3hp and some more weapon >and non weapon slots occasionally vs. 1hp and more zaps and more >proficiencies. Don`t forget also official now is thac0 doesn`t improve >beyond 20th level score. Then again they`re only `RULZ` so bugger that >for a game of dominoes. Mmm. Well, I'm playing Paladin in Hell at the moment (hence the earlier query) and there is a level 26 paladin in there who gets the THAC0. I use it, anyway, so there 'tis :) If mages get extra spells over 20, why not fighters get THAC0? And incidentally, I would fear a level 30 fighter. This guy WILL hit you every round, WILL parry you every round (oh, I use the Complete Fighters as we generally felt that magic was All Powerful) and can absorb large quantities of damage. Read Paladin in Hell, this guy is holding off the 6th layer of Hell singlehandedly. The DM (big fan of maths) worked out that on average he gets hit once every three hours... Wow. Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #48 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, February 3 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 049 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara [MYSTARA] - The Skin Trade [adventure] Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals RE: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - How do i sign up for the AD&D MML Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about Scolls of Communication Re: [MYSTARA] - How do i sign up for the AD&D MML Re: [MYSTARA] - How do i sign up for the AD&D MML Re: [MYSTARA] - How do i sign up for the AD&D MML [MYSTARA] - [Fwd: School of Magecraft] Re: [MYSTARA] - Spells ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:01:17 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara >>I just try to counter it by giving single classes nifty abilities and >>maximum benefit of the doubt over single classed guys. >> >And I`m the one with brain damage? Say what you mean not what you THINK >you mean. (THAT felt GOOOOD! It`s been so long since I did that) Lol. The problems of speed reading 50 emails a day - and speed writing some answers. :) Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 06:48:13 PST From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara >Add the High Level Campaigns book to your AD&D Mystara game, you're fighters >will love you for it! Funny ypou should say that as it was just after I introduced same that when the active party were all killed by a dragon in Blackmoor. They had gone there as part of their quests for Immortality and came face to face with their mortality as many years ago Different Worlds published Dave A`s Garbage Pits of Dispair. Not a brilliant adventure but a true death machine. The active party at that time was Pal18 of Petra who had no special abilities since her patron doesn`t yet exist(I nearly got lynched over that one), F14 Dragonslayer from CoW with enough magic items to bankrupt a country (a SUCESSFUL dragonslayer obviously) and a Nithian ranger13/mage 14 dual class. It lasted one round of combat after the initial breath attack had killed the ranger/mage and really injured the xpaladin. the dragonslayer made the save and wasundamaged. a claw and a wingbuffet finished the expal ande the triple roll damage critical in addition to two good hits vs. the dragonslayer put her down too. BTW the wee beastie had 80HD and was worth just under 500,000 xp! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 15:50:31 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Skin Trade [adventure] Hi everyone! Since Jennifer replied positively to my question regarding your interest in reading an adventure I wrote for the MystaraWriters Forum, and since I have not heard news from that forum since last year, I have decided to post here a bit of my adventure, just to see if it intrigues you. This is just the introduction and the first half of the First Day, but if you seem to like him, I might be persuaded to post the whole thing bit by bit. It's basically a crime story, so the way I'm arranging it will make it possible for you trying to guess what really happened as if you were actually playing it (or at least I hope so). Read and let me know.. DM The Skin Trade By Marco Dalmonte Foreword This adventure is based on George R.R. Martin's short story The Skin Trade (see: Night Visions 5; copyright Dark Harvest Inc., 1988). The adventure is set in Darokin, in the town of Hendry. If this location is not good for a specific campaign then the town may be any one located near a river and some hills covered with light woods. The town must not be an important or rich settlement: rather it should be a low middle class settlement, probably declined in importance in the last decades. The town mostly subsists on logging and small trade, though it once also exported furs and precious metals. The Skin Trade deals with the PCs' investigation of a series of gruesome deaths. The PCs will have to discover the whole truth in a brief time (a week or less), mainly through the use of good sense and their wits rather than raw force. The whole explanation of the events described in the adventure has pourposefully been written at the end of it in order to give to the DMs too the opportunity to savour the mystery surrounding the story and to make their own guesses about what's going on (taking the players' point of view to spot possible inconsistencies). Remember to read carefully the description of each character involved in the story (provided at the end of the adventure) before playing out the adventure: it will help you to better understand what's going on and what are the motivations of the characters to appropriately play the NPCs. This adventure has been designed for 4 to 8 characters of level 4-6 (it has already been playtested by a group of 8 PCs of 6th level). Setting Up the Adventure The adventure revolves around two main characters: Wilhelm Feuerbach and Antares Thuriman. The PCs can either be friends of one or the other, but the best option is that one of the PCs play the role of Antares (with his/her background designed in order to fit this adventure), or at least be a very close friend/relative of her. [Note that from now on it is assumed that the PCs are friends of Antares and so the adventure is centered on her. The DM could also play the adventure using Willie's point of view with some reworking, although it could spoil much of the mystery by doing so.] The party comes to town in order to visit their long missed friend (or in case one of them is Antares, in order to visit her family) and the DM must be able to persuade them to stay there for at least a couple of days (in Mystara, the exact season or month is not important, but it must be near the half of the month, possibly on the 12th or 13th day -full moon cycle). During the following days, the party meets some old aquaintances in town (either Antares's friends or their own), among them: Achen Thuriman (Antares's brother), Isabel Thuriman (Antares's mother), Joseph Urqvarth (old friend of the Thuriman family), Mischa (Achen's friend and guardsman) and Cassandra and Angela Aretus (daughters of a rich merchant), probably while shopping in town or at night in a good tavern. Have the PCs socialize with them and try also to have the most attractive/charismatic male PCs impress the Aretus twins, possibly starting a love story. DAY 1 Wilhelm's Visit One morning (once the PCs have familiarized with the town, but no more than 3 days after their arrival) a man named Wilhelm (an old friend of Antares who has heard of her arrival in town but had not shown up yet) comes to Antares's house and asks her a personal favour. He's a rather small man (5'4'' tall) with long brown hair worn in a ponytail, green eyes and a lean figure. He wears a long dark brown surcoat over a simple white blouse and black leather pants and boots. Apart from a couple of pouches at his belt and a small dagger, he carries nothing other. Willie seems distressed and tells her in private (he doesn't know nor trust the other members of the party) that he suspects something horrible happened to a dear friend of him, Giovanna Lizzieni, the night before. He knows Antares is "a trustworthy and resourceful person, a girl who has always helped her friends" and so he asks her to discover if the guards have found out anything about her friend. Antares can do this without problem, for her brother, Achen, is one of the townsguards, like her father was. Willie also explains her that he cannot ask the guards directly because he is "not really in touch with them" and they could blame him for whatever happened to Giovanna. In fact, they were close friends and the night before they should have met, but Willie had other businesses to attend and so he didn't come to the meeting. When he went to her house the next morning, he found guards roaming everywhere, and he sensed there was something wrong: so, after thinking a bit, he came to Antares to seek her help. He cannot possibly reveal where he was yesterday night, so he has virtually no alibi (should he need one). Willie doesn't know (or pretends to) what happened to Giovanna, but he thinks she's dead (though he doesn't say it explicitely). He really pleas Antares for her help, reminding her of all the favours she owes him (invent something), and invites her to be discreet even with her brother or any other person she will talk with: his name must not be revealed. If Antares accepts, then it's up to her to inform the other members of the party (she should enlist their aid, of course): the adventure has just begun. Starting The Investigation Antares has various sources of information she can exploit (in case Antares is a PC, the DM should tell this to her): * Achen Thuriman: she can ask her brother about Giovanna. Achen is a Sergeant, so he has some power over the guards and can obtain the information she's seeking. However, since he is not directly implied in the investigations, he should come up with a plausible reason for questioning his fellows over this matter. And he also wants to know why Antares is so interested in a person she doesn't even know. Achen will try to discover why Antares wants that information (call it professional distortion) before giving it away, and will then become himself intrigued by the case. * Joseph Urqvart: the current Chief of the Guards was the best friend of Antares's father and will be more than happy to receive Antares's visit. He's a nice man in his forties and if Antares presses him, he will tell her that Giovanna was murdered and "mutilated". This word will arouse strange feelings in Antares (see her background), but the Chief will reassure her that there are no similarities with her father's death. However, he refuses to tell more about the murder and invites her to ignore the case, since they have already a good track to follow. He also invites her to dinner with his family to lower the possible tension created by his reticence (he really cares for Antares and her family, anyway). If Antares goes to the dinner, Chief Urqvart will spend most of the evening talking about the past times and her father, and will gently pilot the conversation away from any possible reference to the Lizzieni murder. * Bartholomeo Diaz: Antares can remember this guy only with an Intelligence Check. This is a famous personality among the town lowlife, a renowned burglar and thief who often helped his father in the past to find dangerous criminals and to jail rival thieves. Bartholomeo visited Antares's mother a couple of times after her father's death and helped her overcome the grief for the loss of the husband (see his description). Antares never really liked this man, but she knows she can get precious information, and could come to him as a last resource. Bartholomeo listens to her questions and promises he will obtain the information regarding the murder (when it happened and how, possibly with the suspects) in a matter of hours... for an appropriate price. Bartholomeo also knows that Rutger Helander has been spotted in town only a couple of days ago, but he won't tell this to Antares unless she specifically asks it. * Lizzieni House: Giovanna lived in a small one storey house in the low-class part of the town. Attached to her house there is another quite decrepit dwelling where an old lady live. Lizzieni House is currently closed and the guards leave it after midday, so if the party wants to enter and inspect it they can do it without problems, provided they act stealthly. Inside they will find: a dining room with an old hand loom in one corner, a small kitchen/pantry, and the sleeping room. The rooms are all poorly furnished except for the sleeping room, where there is a large carved mirror on top of a toilet table with some make-ups, and a chest full of female dresses, some of them really nice and handmade by Giovanna. The sleeping room is a total mess and there are spots of blood all around the room, in particular near the bed (clear result of a fight against her aggressor). No other evidences can be found here. * Sorensen House: this is the house of Giovanna's old neighbour. The woman, Christa Sorensen (78 years old), was a friend of Giovanna's parents and after the accident (see Giovanna's background) she helped the girl live on as if she was her true daughter. She often tended the girl during the day and helped with her waving job. If questioned, she looks to be really prostrated by the terrible event and talks with distress of Giovanna's death (she won't refuse to talk, however, especially if the party shows to be kind and interested in finding out the culprit). She tells them that the night before she cooked Giovanna the dinner as usual and left her in the dining room, where she was still working at a dress. Giovanna seemed happier in the last two weeks, and even younger, as if something had finally given back to her the lost youth. She suspects that the girl had a lover, and she had in fact seen many times the shadow of a man entering the house during the last days, always long after dawn. She discovered the corpse the morning after, when she entered Giovanna's house after the girl hadn't replied to her calls. The door was locked as usual, but she had her own keys and when she entered the sleeping room she witnessed the horrid scene (see description of the Death scene below). Shocked, she cried out many times and ran outside, where she found a guardsman and told him of the murder. She admit she didn't hear anything the night before, but then she is quite deaf given her old age... * Other neighbours: the other building left of Lizzieni House is a grocery store that was closed when the murder happened (its owner lives on the other side of the street). All of the people living in the nearby houses remember Giovanna as a kind unlucky person, but they didn't see nor hear anything the night of the deed. Some of them remember seeing a person visiting Giovanna after dark, if asked, but they are not sure they saw this person the night of the murder. * Morgue/Cemetery: the town morgue is inside the cemetery and Giovanna's corpse has already been put inside a coffin. The funeral will be held the morning after (DAY 2), so if the party is really desperate (or daring enough), they can bribe the local undertaker, Jebediah Sprigg, to let them give a quick look at the corpse. Jebediah is a renowned drunkyard and can be persuaded easily. Alternatively, the party could use some magic to sneak into the obituary and inspect the corpse. Whichever the case, at first sight the corpse appear completely skinned from toes to head. A more scrupolous observation (or an Int check at -3) will reveal however that there are clear marks of burnings around the wrists and ankles. However, the bed didn't show any traces of burnings. No other particular evidence here. Death Scene Description The party can get this information either by Christa Sorensen, Achen Thuriman or Bartholomeo Diaz. The more detailed and precious descriptions will be the last two, while the old lady could forget something (DM's roleplay). The guards' report reads as follows: "Upon entering the house, no clear sign of fight or burglary was noticed. The main door was open but the neighbour, Christa Sorensen, had previously stated that she had opened it with her own keys. The door of the sleeping room was also open (left open by C.S. after running outside) and it revealed the horrible scene inside. The whole bed was soaked with blood, with stains of blood also covering the north and west walls. A clear trail of blood also went from the toilet table near the east wall to the bed (the girl was probably sitting in front of the toilet table when her murderer stabbed her for the first time) and a crashed lantern was also found near the toilet table. A wheelchair was found wrecked near the closed window in the south wall of the room, with the ripped dress of the victim (identified by C.S.) near the crashed wheelchair, not completely covered with blood. The mutilated corpse of the victim, Giovanna Lizzieni (25 years old), was found on the bed. It was completely skinned, with her bowels and bones exposed but still in place. To notice that she was chained to the corners of the bed (ankles and wrists) with silvered manacle of unknown manufacture. At first sight the corpse presented no signs of broken bones nor any other harm caused by lethal weapons. After searching the house, the skin was still missing, and no trace of blood was discovered outside the sleeping room. It is believed that the murderer used some kind of small knife or blade to skin the victim so thoroughly, and then probably put the skin inside a container (waterproof sack or large box) to take it without leaving trails. It is also believed that he washed his boots with the water held in a small toilet basin before leaving the sleeping room, in order not to leave tracks. The identity of the murderer is still unknown, but there are reasons to believe the criminal knew the victim, since there are no signs of housebreaking." DM Notes: the players should notice that there are three strange things in this scene. First of all, since Giovanna was paralytic (she couldn't use her legs, that's why she had the wheelchair found inside the room), why has the murderer chained to the bed both her wrists AND ANKLES? He has surely noticed she couldn't walk when he entered the room (or maybe he knew it ever since, if he is a friend of her), so why the chains at the legs? Second point: how could a paralytic girl oppose his murderer so fiercely as the evidences found inside the room show (blood spilled all around the room and many signs of wrestling)? Third and last point: why has the murderer used such a particular item to bind the girl (silver manacles) without removing them once he quit the scene? Did he do it on pourpose to leave behind a clear mark for the guards to find? Does this mean the PCs have just discovered the first victim of a serial killer? [temporary end of part 1] *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 06:53:02 PST From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals >If ye're interested in creating suicide squads, look to the human brothers of >yer own kind. Elves have a different view of the world and the things that >happen in it. When yer life extends for centuries instead of decades, a more >long term approach is thought of. I'm sure my brothers will get what they >deserve in due time, but not until it is the proper time. That's the elven >way my short lived friend. Of course, that's assuming that the other elven >Immortals haven't decided that it's time we became one again. I've personally >wondered why Illsundal, Calitha, Eiryndul and Mealiden didn't alert their >faithful ahead of time, mayhap it is all a test for each side? > Obviously not all of the Second Shadow have finished their duties! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 07:03:30 PST From: "paul dooley" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara >>I'm confused. >Do you mean he should mean what he doesn't think he means, even when he >means that he thinks what he means? > sorry let me clarify the se tance below contains an error, or the originator had better seek prompt medical assistance, in which he states that he both benefits and penalises single class characters with no mention of multiclassed. if we assume that the second usage of the word single is in fact supposed to be multi then in actuality we are in agreement for I do the same in my campaigns. >> >I just try to counter it by giving single classes nifty abilities and >> >maximum benefit of the doubt over single classed guys. >> > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 07:11:08 PST From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara >Read Paladin in Hell, this guy is holding off the 6th layer of Hell >singlehandedly. The DM (big fan of maths) worked out that on average he >gets hit once every three hours... > Does he perchance play poker? Lets numbercrunch shall we. Core rules state max. ac=-10 also `20` always hits. personally I`d have some archers stand off and shoot you say 60 that`s 3 hits per round on average. BTW did I mention that they`re using that death or 25HP damage poison on their arrows. G`nigh Berk. :P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:13:38 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - How do i sign up for the AD&D MML On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, paul dooley wrote: > >Vikings often honoured other gods when they visited other lands, as it > was common belief that there were different gods for various > geographical regions. > > So I got the different gods bit right at least? Yep yep. What you said wasn't wrong, but i just thought i'd add some more information for the enlightenment of everyone ;) Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:22:06 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about Scolls of Communication On Wed, 3 Feb 1999 Nurvel@aol.com wrote: > Would they work if you were on the outside of the moons or on a different > planet in the system? They are technically in the same plane of existance? I'd say yes. AFAIK the only limitation to the scrolls is that they have to be on the same plane of existance, which means that they would work if one is on MJupiter and one is on Mystara, or whatever. OTOH I dont think it would be that unreasonable if the DM chose to disallow it. Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 07:28:37 PST From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - How do i sign up for the AD&D MML >> So I got the different gods bit right at least? > >Yep yep. What you said wasn't wrong, but i just thought i'd add some more >information for the enlightenment of everyone ;) > >Haavard > Ah! a gnat raised to a great hight on the back of a giant. ;P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:39:50 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - How do i sign up for the AD&D MML On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, paul dooley wrote: > Ah! a gnat raised to a great hight on the back of a giant. ;P Lol :) Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 07:45:16 PST From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - How do i sign up for the AD&D MML >> Ah! a gnat raised to a great hight on the back of a giant. ;P > >Lol :) > The question is though which is which? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 11:12:44 -0600 From: Tim Subject: [MYSTARA] - [Fwd: School of Magecraft] Lille My wrote: This is something sent to me back in April 1998 for a net project on the Karameikan School of Magecraft. Since I will probably not be keeping the project open, I thought the list would enjoy the original write up. > Lille My > > Morten Greis Petersen. greis@dorit.ihi.ku.dk > > Traladaran Village Magic at The Karameikan School of Magecraft > > Ilya Borisnhew, Traladaran Mage and lecturer at The Karameikan School of > Magecraft giving his first lecture in "Traladaran Village Magic." > > "Before Karameikos became a part of Thyatis and later an independent > kingdom ruled by Stefan Karameikos it was a sort of backwater nation with > only little contact to the other nations, this had a serious impact on the > development of many things, among these were the development of magic." > > "Most mages at that time lived in small villages and had only little > contact with others, their apprentices would be young people from the local > area, that they would teach the art of magic. With the later colonization > of Karameikos the Thyatians brought the Traladarans into contact with other > nations and other mages. Now things were different, in major cities guilds > of mages were created and the mages could cooperate and teach each others > new magic's." > > Now the Karameikans enjoy the same types of spells and magic as their > brethren in other nations, but back in the old villages there are still > mages practicing the old village magic and this is what this course is > about. Traladaran village magic is divided into four types. The first one > being Old Village Magic. This group consists of the common spells as you > all know, spells like Magic Missile, Sleep, Hold Portal etc., however these > are different, as the village mages had a limited group of young people to > pick their students from, they could not always get the brightest ones and > often had to simplify their spells, an example of this would be the spell > "Wine Makes You Dizzy", this is actually a Sleep spell, but it requires the > target to drink the wine you enchant with the spell and as you can see, it > is much more easy to cast, the same goes for "Enchanting Speech", which > again is a simpler version of the Charm Person spells. > The second group is New Village Magic, this group contains spells developed > by Traladaran Village Mages and is therefore unique, and these are not > taught in other places and are in danger of being forgotten, if we do not > teach it at this school. Among the spells in this group are The Blue Mug of > Beer and Petras Answer and this group contains a special sub-group of very > specialized spells, these are called the Hero-magic's and in this group are > spells such as Paleps Call to the Woodland Animals and To Discern Like > Jelka and as you will notice both Palep and Jelka is known from our > folklore, precisely "Palep and the Troll" and "The Tale of Jelka and the > Werewolf". The third group of magic is called the Ancient Village Spells > and these are truly special and incredibly rare. They are from ancient > times, most likely our Golden Age before the Beastmen Wars. These spells > have changed very little since they were created, as it is the fewest > village magicians that ever were able to learn them and use them. Most of > these are simply spells printed in their original or close to original > spellbooks, which then have been given from village mage to village mage > throughout time until these days. We only know a few spells at this school, > but it is my belief that there many of these left in the countryside or > perhaps in the ruins of old settlements. The most fascinating about these > spells are that they in general are very powerful and must therefore have > been developed by people who were truly masters of magic, but who were > these masters of magic, we don't know yet. > The Fourth group of Magics is the most special and most difficult to learn, > no one here at the school are able to use these and they are called Nature > Village Magics. They are much like druid spells and often support the > village against drought and diseases the can ruin the harvest or the > livestock. I have only met a few village magicians who were able to use the > spells and they were all devout followers of either Halav, Petra or Zirchev." > > "But then why this course? You asks yourselves and I shall answer. First > and foremost to save the Village Magic from being forgotten, as much of it > is slowly being lost as the new apprentices in the villages wants to learn > the new types of magic and that is shame. Do not forget that many of these > spells are either unique or represents an important part of our Traladaran > culture." > > Ilya Borisnhew > Ilya was born in 958 in the small village of Keremvor, about 5 days of > travel to the SE of Penhaligon. He grew up in the quiet village under the > tutoring of Baranya the village mage. When Ilya came of age he left > Keremvor with several of his friends and they traveled wide and far. One > day they visited Darokin and here they met a mage from Glantri, he showed > Ilya his magics and Ilya was soon quite fascinated by this and lived in > Darokin City for many years to study the many foreign types of magic he met > here. In 1001 and he returned to Karameikos and saw the lands situation, > the place was still a backwater nation when it came to magic and he set for > himself to travel from village to village to teach the local Traladaran > magic-users his new spells. During these travels he realized that the > Traladarans had their own special school of magics and that it was in > danger of being lost as the Thyatians slowly was civilizing the land. After > the Great War Ilya went to Specularuam and wanted to join the mages guild, > but then heard about The Karameikan School of Magecraft and contacted > Tenari. Ilya demonstrated his skills and his little known Traladaran spells > and was shortly after given a place at the school, where he now teaches > history, archaeology, folklore and Traladaran Village Magic. > > Ilya Borisnhew. 13th lv magic-user. Traladaran. Nationalist tendencies, > very knowledge-able about village magic and have traveled far and wide in > Karameikos to retrieve village magic. Ilya is very proud of being a > Traladaran and likewise wants his Traladaran students to be proud of > themselves, interested in their culture and history and value their special > spells. Ilya don't mind teaching Thyatians in Traladaran magic, but he > hasn't much love for them. > Birthdate: Thaurmont 12. 958 AC. AL N. AC 6; MV 9 (due to age); Magic-user > LV13; HP 22; THAC0 15; #AT 1 dagger; Dmg 1d4 or by spell; S 9 I17 W14 D10 > Co11 Ch12. Ring of Defense (+3AC bonus). > > Rules and comments: > Requirements for a Magic-User using only Traladaran Magic is not a minimum > Intelligence of 9, but 7, except the Ancient Village Magic, which only can > be used by magic-users having a minimum int. of 14. > > Students taking courses in Village Magic must also take courses in history, > ancient history or archaeology (all specified for Karameikos/Traladarans). > A comment on the Ancient Magic: These spells were taught the Traldars by > the Hutaakans and some of these spells they brought along from Ancient > Nithia (some of these spells might even be found among Nithians and > hutaakans in the Hollow World) > > Spells mentioned: > Blue Mug of Beer > Level: 1 > Range: Touch > Duration: Permanent > Effect: A mug of beer > Save: optional (if you want to resist it) > Description: The caster enchants a mug of beer. The beer turns blue and > will now cure one hangover. However as it is rather foul smelling the > drinker has to succeed a constitution check or fall ill for one turn, but > will otherwise be cured of the hangovers. Somehow it is very popular among > young adventuring parties (besides regular parties). > > Petras Answer > Level: 3 > Range: Touch > Duration: 1 turn > Effect: One silver mirror with gold inlays > Save: none > Description: This spell is quite peculiar. It is used to find peoples True > Love. To cast this spell the magic-user must have a silver mirror with gold > inlays and an object dear to the one who wants to find his or her True > Love. When the spell is cast the object disappears and on the mirror the > True Love can be seen, at whatever he or she is doing at the moment, and a > general direction can be felt, but distance cannot. > > Paleps Call to the Woodland Animals > Level: 1 > Range: 90' > Duration: one week > Effect: One child > Save: none > Description: This spell must be cast on a little child (no more than 10 > years of age), who is a hyrde. If trolls, goblins or orcs ever threaten him > or her, he or she can choose to use this spell and summon 3d4 HD of > woodland animals to fight for the child. This spell will not work if the > child has ever been cruel to woodland animals. The animals will arrive > before the child is in danger of being killed and either attack his enemies > or carry the child to safety, they will also attempt to rescue friends and > relatives of the child if possible. > > To Discern like Jelka > Level: 2 > Range: 30' > Duration: Until dawn > Effect: One wife > Save: neg. (but only if she wants to resist the spell) > Description: This spell can only be cast after sunset and allows a wife to > recognize any of her close family (husband and children) in no matter what > shape they are (polymorphed, shapechanged, turned into a werewolf etc.). > She must be within 10' of the target she wants to discern. She also has 30% > chance to see if it is a curse, spell or lycanthropy (or any other magical > disease with the same effect). > > Wine Makes you Dizzy > Level: 1 > Range: Touch > Duration: 4d4 turns > Effect: A bottle of wine > Save: none > Description: The magic-user enchants a bottle of wine. The wine turns a bit > darker in color and the smell becomes richer. The enchantment on the wine > lasts for 3 turns and people drinking from this bottle becomes drunk and > falls heavily asleep 6 rounds later (all actions are until then penalized > by 4) and sleeps 4d4 turns unless awakened. Only living humanoid creatures > with 4+1 HD or less is affected by this spell. There is enough of this > enchanted wine to affect 2d4 victims. > > Enchanting Speech > Level: 1 > Range: 20' > Duration: Special > Effect: One person > Save: normal > Description: The magic-user can enthrall one person with this spell. As > long as he is talking the target will stop and listen to him and will not > act against him or do anything else unless attacked in some way. This spell > affects living humanoids with 4+1 HD or less, unless they succeed their > saving throw vs. spells. The caster may also attempt to give the listener > orders, the target will follow orders as long as the magic-user keeps > talking and the victim is able to hear it. The target will not obey orders > that will cause harm to him or his friends, but will attack others if > ordered to do so. (There are rumors of a more powerful version of this > spell that affects more creatures). > > Tales mentioned: > Palep and the Troll > The Tale of Jelka and the Werewolf > > Classes: > The Origins of Traladaran Village Magic > History of the Traladaran People > The Truth Behind Traladaran Folktales > Ancient Cultures in Karameikos (archaeology course) - -- Timothy R. Haney galwylin@airnet.net The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 09:29:25 -0800 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spells Hello MML'ers! It's been quite a while since I've had time or reason to send anything to the list. I have been lurking in the background though -- I must say that there have been a number of interesting topics and ideas tossed around in the past few months. The following post by Jonathan Nolan piqued my interest: >Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 22:54:47 +1100 (EST) >From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spells > >Well, I am trying to create a Mystara-specific spell compendium. I have 28 >pages so far, but am always looking for more... > >IF contributors mail me or the list with spells THEN I will undertake to >make the whole lot available as a netbook / document file... The funny thing is, I have a small number of wizard spells that I've created for my oD&D Mystara campaign, and I've been meaning to share them with the list, but just hadn't got around to it. I suppose now is as good a time as any... These spells were developed by using the mechanics suggested in the Dragon Magazine article "The Color of Magic". This article used to be available online at TSR's web site at the following URL: http://www.tsr.com/periodicals/dragon/backissues/200dec93/200ColorOfMagic.tx t. (I haven't tried it lately, so the changes to their web site may have invalidated that URL. The file should still be available somewhere though.) The spells are at the end of my note and are arranged first by level and then alphabetically. I hope some of you find them to be interesting and/or useful. Also, if you like these, and anyone is interested, I also have a number of spells that aren't exactly "New" -- they are roughly based on a small number of 1st Ed AD&D spells, but have been modified in various ways (i.e., level changes, result changes, etc.) to better fit into my perception of oD&D wizard magic. Jenni A. M. Merrifield - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- PS: In case anyone is interested: my son Nathan is now 4-1/2 months old and doing just fine! We just had him baptised a couple of weeks ago, and now he's starting to learn how to roll over. I love being a Mom! - -JAMM - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Wizard Spells for Mystara - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Created by "strawberryJAMM" ======= LEVEL 3 ======= - ------------- CLAIRAUDIENCE - ------------- Range: 60' Duration: 12 turns Effect: Hear through another's ears With this spell, the caster may hear through the ears of any single creature in spell range. "Hearing" through a creature's ears takes one full turn, after which the caster can change to another creature, even one in another direction; he does not have to cast the spell again to do so. Two feet of rock or a thin coating of lead blocks the effects of this spell. No saving throw is allowed. - -------- ROPEFORM - -------- Range: Touch Duration: permanent Effect: Creates up to 100' length of rope This spell creates quantities of hemp rope up to 100' long and 1/2" wide. The rope created by a single spell must appear in one piece. Unlike many creation-type spells, this one creates rope that is non-magical and cannot be dispelled. Note that it is possible for the spell caster to create longer rope at the expense of making it thinner and weaker. If the campaign uses the optional general skills and the caster has an appropriate Craft skill, he may shape the rope into two dimensional shapes, such as nets or rope ladders. The maximum size of such a 2 dimensional object is 100' square. If the campaign doesn't use the skills rules, the character could have been defined earlier as one who knows how to work with rope and twine in order for him to do this. Naturally, unshaped rope created by this spell can later be cut, knotted, tied and otherwise fashioned into such objects. The rope so created is plain, boring hemp rope - tough, serviceable and fairly unglamorous. A caster can create his rope with an unfinished end, and later he or another caster can use another ropeform to create rope joined to the first on that end - and there will be no seam or weakness at the joining. When created, the rope extrudes from the caster's hands and out along the ground. If there are obstacles, it piles up against them but does not shove them back. The rope, when created, may not be attached to anything except to another expanse of ropeform rope, as described above. The rope cannot be cast in a space occupied by another object. This spell is also made available to the Minrothad Merchant Princes, as it is very useful on board a ship. ======= LEVEL 4 ======= - --------------------------- CONJURE MINOR AIR ELEMENTAL - --------------------------- Range: 240' Duration: Concentration Effect: Summons one 8HD elemental This spell is identical to the 5th level spell *conjure elemental* except for the following: The conjured elemental is only half as powerful (8HD vs. 16HD) and must be from the elemental plane of Air. This spell can not be used underwater. - ----------------------------- CONJURE MINOR EARTH ELEMENTAL - ----------------------------- Range: 240' Duration: Concentration Effect: Summons one 8HD elemental This spell is identical to the 5th level spell *conjure elemental* except for the following: The conjured elemental is only half as powerful (8HD vs. 16HD) and must be from the elemental plane of Earth. Based on PC3, if this spell is used underwater, the conjured elemental must stay in contact with the sea floor or else they will be dispelled after 1d4 rounds. - ---------------------------- CONJURE MINOR FIRE ELEMENTAL - ---------------------------- Range: 240' Duration: Concentration Effect: Summons one 8HD elemental This spell is identical to the 5th level spell *conjure elemental* except for the following: The conjured elemental is only half as powerful (8HD vs. 16HD) and must be from the elemental plane of Fire. This spell can not be used underwater. - ----------------------------- CONJURE MINOR WATER ELEMENTAL - ----------------------------- Range: 240' Duration: Concentration Effect: Summons one 8HD elemental This spell is identical to the 5th level spell *conjure elemental* except for the following: The conjured elemental is only half as powerful (8HD vs. 16HD) and must be from the elemental plane of Water. ======= LEVEL 5 ======= - ---- TIE* - ---- Range: 120' Duration: 6 turns + 1 turn per level of the caster Effect: Ties up 1d4 creatures in magical cord This spell will cause magically glowing cord to tie up and immobilise any living creature, including undead. Each victim must make a saving throw vs. spells or be bound tightly and virtually unable to move, except to wriggle slightly (possibly toppling themselves over or perhaps rolling a few inches across the ground). The spell may be cast at a single creature or a group. If cast at a single creature, the victim takes a -2 penalty to his saving throw. If cast at a group, it will affect 1d4 creatures (of the spellcaster's choice, and within spell range), but with no penalties to the saving throw. The magical cord may not be cut or severed by any natural means. The reverse of this spell *untie* will remove the effects of the tie spell. It can also remove bindings of a non-magical nature, such as ropes, chains, etc. ======= LEVEL 8 ======= - ---------------- PRISMATIC SHIELD - ---------------- Range: 0 Duration: 1 turn/level Effect: Creates a colourful magic barrier This spell is almost the same as the 9th level *prismatic wall* spell, except that it allows the caster to create a barrier in the shape of a huge shield. This shield may be held by the caster or passed over to another character. Any character class, even those not normally allowed to handle a shield, may use a *prismatic shield* but only characters who may normally use a shield can continue to fight with weaponry at the same time. Note that another magic caster can "whittle away" the shield's integrity by casting the same series of spells at it as they would use to break through a *prismatic wall*. This shield will protect the person using it from all frontal attacks that are still blocked, but leaves their rear side undefended - i.e., anyone attacking them from behind will be able to hit them as if they did not have the shield. Note that some layers do provide "non directional" protection, such as the Green layer, which blocks all detection spells as long as the character is actually using the shield. As with the *prismatic wall* spell, the Alfheim Elves can not normally learn this spell. - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs strawberry@jamm.com <==> http://www.jamm.com/jamm/ <------------------------------------------------------------------> God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. Then God started to think: "I should create things I *like*!" And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #49 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Thursday, February 4 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 050 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Another WotI nitpick (was: Wrath of the Immortals) Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about Voyage of Princess Ark Re: [MYSTARA] - How do i sign up for the AD&D MML Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - How do i sign up for the AD&D MML [MYSTARA] - re: The Skin Trade [adventure] Re: [MYSTARA] - How do i sign up for the AD&D MML Re: [MYSTARA] - Malachie du Marais Re: [MYSTARA] - Another WotI nitpick (was: Wrath of the Immortals) Re: [MYSTARA] - Malachie du Marais Re: [MYSTARA] - Malachie du Marais / Lord Alexander Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - [Fwd: School of Magecraft] Re: [MYSTARA] - [Fwd: School of Magecraft] Re: [MYSTARA] - How do i sign up for the AD&D MML [MYSTARA] - Restorationist Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about Scolls of Communication Re: [MYSTARA] - [Fwd: School of Magecraft] Re: [MYSTARA] - Restorationist [MYSTARA] - The Skin Trade [adventure] Re: [MYSTARA] - Spells RE: [MYSTARA] - The Skin Trade [adventure] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:50:59 EST From: EzJ25@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara In a message dated 2/3/99 9:50:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, ezaqwazy@hotmail.com writes: << BTW the wee beastie had 80HD and was worth just under 500,000 xp! >> You know, some judgement is called for. Like not sending your players on a suicide mission without hope of living..... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:24:02 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Another WotI nitpick (was: Wrath of the Immortals) On Tue, 2 Feb 1999, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: > a little strange, that the Old Ones -- whom we'd expect to be above the > petty conflicts between Spheres -- should suddenly be taking sides and > doing something nasty to the Entropics ... especially when it's Energy, NOT > Entropy, which incited the conflict in the first place? Maybe the Old ones have their own reasons. Entropy, as we all know, incresed to extreme levels in WoTI. The drain could have been to keep it in balance. Plust, destroying entropy means creating order. Don't be that guy caught up with double negatives!! Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:30:40 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about Voyage of Princess Ark On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA wrote: > > Well, as an actual lawyer, I can suggest one easy way around this, add 25% > extra volume as comment, genuine reviews of the articles, fanzine > contributions and so on, plaster "free - not for sale or resale - fair > comment only" and "not approved by TSR/WoTC" - then there is 'no cntest' > offered to copyright, and if it is only privately emailed to people who > agree not to distribute it, bingo, you're in business. I'll add commentary, if it'll help the cause :) Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:37:46 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - How do i sign up for the AD&D MML On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, paul dooley wrote: > Foul! She`s got a mortal with more power than most gods on her side. Pah. One good look from Ixion, and Elminster's toast. Remember, Ixion can spend about 10 TP, and send a rather large rock slamming down on Elminster until there is nothing left - While still using his aura attacks and other 50+level (50d6!) magics against Mystra. Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:52:22 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara On Wed, 3 Feb 1999 EzJ25@aol.com wrote: > << BTW > the wee beastie had 80HD and was worth just under 500,000 xp! >> > > You know, some judgement is called for. Like not sending your players on a > suicide mission without hope of living..... True enough. RPG's are not all dice roll games. Sometimes temperance is required. Your Paladin didn't have powers, and your team didn't even get off an attack. It's like sending a 25th level team against the Ruby WEAPON in FF7. Ethan - And you haven't lived unless you've sent at least a 66th level team against that guy, and realized that you're completely helpless. - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 19:30:42 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara >>Read Paladin in Hell, this guy is holding off the 6th layer of Hell >>singlehandedly. The DM (big fan of maths) worked out that on average >he >>gets hit once every three hours... >> >Does he perchance play poker? Lets numbercrunch shall we. Core rules >state max. ac=-10 also `20` always hits. personally I`d have some >archers stand off and shoot you say 60 that`s 3 hits per round on >average. BTW did I mention that they`re using that death or 25HP damage >poison on their arrows. G`nigh Berk. :P Nahh, we use parrying rules. Basically, the bad guys need a 20 to hit him, and the paladin can parry that hit on any roll bar a 1. Hence, a 1 in 400 chance of him being hit. (Thats over 6 hours, but I guess the DM knows more of what was being deployed than I do). (Parrying really changes the game in a few not so nice ways. The 1 attack wight is now not nearly as hard as when it meant that that one attack could drop u a level). In response to the second half, I agree with u. The Legion of Hell should have pulled back a ways, and then done a Zulu (thats a "Volley Fire Present! At 100 yards! Fire!!!" for those who havnt seen the film). Still, it was supposed to be heroic High Fantasy, one (dead) paladin holding off the hordes of Hell. It wouldnt be in keeping with the script to have them back off and pepper him with arrows. BTW - IIRC technically things like dexterity are modifiers to hit rolls, not a bonus to AC per se, even tho it is figured into AC. So BASE AC-10, b4 mods. Irrelevant either way, as we dont use it anyway. Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 19:33:32 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - How do i sign up for the AD&D MML >> Foul! She`s got a mortal with more power than most gods on her side. > >Pah. One good look from Ixion, and Elminster's toast. Remember, Ixion can >spend about 10 TP, and send a rather large rock slamming down on Elminster >until there is nothing left - While still using his aura attacks and other >50+level (50d6!) magics against Mystra. Mystra clicks her fingers, and Ixion is now without magic. Sadly, Ixion then throws a major temper tantrum and cuts her into very small pieces. :) Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 19:39:43 GMT From: "John Polacek" Subject: [MYSTARA] - re: The Skin Trade [adventure] So far, it sounds totally cool. This is exactly the kind of thing I was looking for when I asked if anyone had any good mystara adventures posted on the web. By all means, keep posting it on the list, as I'm anxious to hear more. Is there anywhere I can find it in its entirety? I can never have to many adventures in my files! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:48:23 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - How do i sign up for the AD&D MML On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Rob wrote: > Mystra clicks her fingers, and Ixion is now without magic. Sadly, Ixion > then throws a major temper tantrum and cuts her into very small pieces. And I doubt that Mystra is powerful enough to completely drain a full Hierarch's PP. But also, I don't think that an Immortal's magic is a function of Mystra's whim either. She may be the goddess of magic for Toril, but in a neutral plane/dimension, that's worthless. Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 20:34:40 +0100 From: "JamugaKhan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Malachie du Marais > Hey, don't kill him, please? :) Rather nice guy, IMO. Right! He's the last defender of the Principalities. Well, it's a sad country when this must be said about a were-wolf. And a cool one, of course... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 00:36:53 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Another WotI nitpick (was: Wrath of the Immortals) > >> What possible motive could the Old One have had, for making the > >> Nucleus drain Entropy, BESIDES "it makes a neat 'happy ending' for a > There`s also senilit, insanity, boredon,vindictiveness and the worst of > all REALLY BAD WRITING. Man I REALLY like your attitude! :) - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 23:10:51 +0200 From: "Solmyr of the Azure Star" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Malachie du Marais >Well, it's a sad country when this must be said about >a were-wolf. > >And a cool one, of course... > You are just envious because your Ethies don't have a cool werewolf among them :) ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star aka Azure Star Dragon solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 00:47:46 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Malachie du Marais / Lord Alexander Glantri > Right! He's the last defender of the Principalities. Well, I wouldn't say so -- I would add Jherek, Urmahid and Carlotina to the list. But as we are discussing on the fate of Glantri; what happened to Lord Alexander Glantri? Nothing is mentioned anywhere about him. Anyone done his biography? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 17:53:23 -0500 From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Fwd: School of Magecraft] Tim wrote: > Lille My wrote: > This is something sent to me back in April 1998 for a net project on the > Karameikan School of Magecraft. Since I will probably not be keeping > the project open, I thought the list would enjoy the original write up. Won't be keeping it open?!??!?!?! Just what the hey does that mean!?!?!?! You must keep it open, I insist! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 19:11:34 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Fwd: School of Magecraft] Jeff Daly wrote: > > You must keep it open, I insist! Pending attack of Thyatis has forced all classes to be suspended :) - -- Timothy R. Haney galwylin@airnet.net The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 22:23:38 -0500 From: Andrew Toth Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - How do i sign up for the AD&D MML At 02:48 PM 2/3/99 -0500, you wrote: >On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Rob wrote: > >> Mystra clicks her fingers, and Ixion is now without magic. Sadly, Ixion >> then throws a major temper tantrum and cuts her into very small pieces. > >And I doubt that Mystra is powerful enough to completely drain a full >Hierarch's PP. > >But also, I don't think that an Immortal's magic is a function of Mystra's >whim either. She may be the goddess of magic for Toril, but in a neutral >plane/dimension, that's worthless. > I suppose then the question is, where's the battle taking place then? Beyowulf Steely Blue Dragon -==UDIC==- |/ "Ours is not to reason why, but to blow this joint before we die" -Ratrap, BeastWars *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 20:51:35 -0800 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: [MYSTARA] - Restorationist Hey all! I've been talking with Geoff lately about how the game effects of Energy Drain (ie, loss of levels) might manifest itself in literary or real life terms. Specifically, why a magic user would suddenly find himself unable to cast spells that he was previously able to cast, and still has written down in his books. My thought is that the Energy Drain causes trauma to the body- physical and/or mental, as opposed to just "draining energy" from the victim. IE, a mage might repress memories related to the terror causing event, inadvertently blocking off knowledge of certain spellcasting practices, etc. In effect, then, the Energy Drain is similar to say, a Sanity loss in Call of Cthulhu and similar games. That being the case, I thought- why not invent a character kit that is specifically trained to deal with this sort of thing? Hence I introduce... The Restorationist Description: The Restorationist is a specialist in the arts of healing. Part psychiatrist, part physical therapist, the Restorationist seeks to repair traumas to the body that are brought about through horrific experiences. Though he mainly concentrates on treating injuries caused by the Undead, he also is able to cure difficulties relating to a wide range of mental and physical disabilities. Restorationists often perform their practices outside of organized theocracies. They charge for their services, sometimes at less expensive rates than those of clerics. Their techniques are purely non-magical, drawing upon the natural healing capabilities of the body and mind, as opposed to the instantaneous and divine restoration provided by the clerical spell of the same name. As a result, they also take time, and rarely may result in more trauma being inflicted upon the client. Other side effects normally associated with clerical healing (such as aging) are not incurred by the Restorationist. The training of a Restorationist is a long and arduous process, and not for the undisciplined. As a result, they are few in number, which makes clerical assistance a more viable alternative for many. Their circles being small, however, most Restorationists know of one another by reputation at least, if not personally. To become a Restorationist, the character must possess a Wisdom of 14 or better, and Strength and Constitution scores of 12 or higher. The discipline is demanding both physicall and mentally, and only those of stern character need apply. They must also be of Lawful alignment, though they can be Good, Neutral, or (rarely) Evil. Role: The Restorationist provides a complementary service to the healing provided by organized clergy. They are most useful in campaigns that partake in Undead or Horror oriented themes. Not only do they provide a useful means of restoring damages wrought by those sorts of creatures, they can also be a source of information for player characters. In order to heal trauma, they must be familiar with the causes of such damage, and so may possess information of use when fighting undead monsters. Secondary Skills: If you use the Secondary Skills options, Restorationists may choose from the following list- Healer, Herbalist, Historian, Veterinarian. Weapon Proficiencies: The Restorationist may utilize any weapons allowed by his class. Nonweapon Proficiencies: Bonus Proficiencies- Healing. Required- Reading/Writing (common tongue). Recommended: Herbalism, Languages (Modern), Local History, Reading/Writing (additional tongues), Religion, Spellcraft. Note that if Reading/Writing (common tongue) is not a part of the standard class proficiencies, it must still be bought at the additional cost (ie, one extra slot, as if learning another class proficiency). Equipment: Most of the Restorationist's work comes through close contact with the victim, and not through outside assistance. It should be noted, however, that many Restorationists have their own clinics, which contain small libraries at worst. Some Restorationists go much further and either invest in or invent devices which they feel may be of assistance in their work. The costs (and effectiveness) of such devices is left to the DM's judgement. Special Benefits: The Restorationist recieves a number of special benefits relating to healing. Primarily, the Restorationist has the ability to restore levels lost to the Energy Draining effects of undead (and similar creatures). For every level of the Restorationist, there is a 5% chance to restore level loss. Restoration of lost levels takes 1 month per level loss, during which time the victim cannot perform any activity more strenuous than normal waking practices (sleep, eat, etc.) Any adventurous activity will negate the success of the Restoration. The chances of success are checked halfway through the required period. At this point (and only at this point), the Restorationist will know whether his practices are having any effect on the victim or not. If so, the healing can continue for the remainder of the period. If not, the Restorationist cannot help this victim any longer (for this particular Energy Drain, at any rate; victims of future drains may attempt once more)- he will have to refer the victim to another Restorationist. Effects of the Restoration are otherwise similar to the 7th level Priest spell of the same name. Note that there is no aging associated with this ability. The Restorationist also gains the ability to attempt to heal traumas caused by spells or spell-like effects such as Fear, Strength loss (from a Shadow, for example), or other similar mental and/or physical traumas. (What exactly constitutes a healable trauma is at the DM's discretion, but note that many undead abilities and Enchantment/Charm effects are likely choices). The chances for healing such abilities is the same as for Restoration, but the time frame is different. Generally, it lasts for 1 week per point of loss (in the case of ability loss), or level of spell (for spells/spell-like effects). Chances of success are checked at the halfway mark, as above. Special Hindrances: The Restorationist also has certain hindrances, as well. First and foremost is the chance that, though trying to cure his client, he may actually damage him further. For every level of difference between the Restorationist and the victim, there is a 2% chance of failure. In case of level loss, difference should be calculated according to the victim's level prior to the loss. (IE, a 14th level character, reduced 2 levels by an Energy Drain, and being healed by a 9th level Restorationist, incurs a 10% chance of failure). There is always at least a 2% chance of failure. Failure to heal a metal defect caused by a spell or spell-like effect (such as Fear) will cause such defects to become permanent. Failure to cure an Energy Drain result in the victim losing additional levels, equivalent to the number the Restorationist attempted to cure. Additionally, the Restorationist loses half the number of Energy Drained levels, with a minimum of 1 level lost. (Example, the 14th level character above would lose an additional 2 levels, dropping him to 10th level. The Restorationist who failed to cure him would drop 1 level to level 8.) Due to their often isolationist tendencies, Restorationists receive a -1 on all Reaction Rolls in their initial dealings with others. Finally, if a Restorationist ever falls victim to such trauma as he usually deals with (a Fear spell, etc.), he will lose all of his healing abilities until such time as the trauma is cured. The cure can come from either outside assistance, or simply naturally overcoming the damage (regaining levels lost to an Energy Drain through adventuring, for example). Wealth Options: The Restorationist starts out with the normal monetary allotment for his character class. Races: The Restorationist kit is open to any race, though dwarves, gnomes, and halflings seem less suited to it than do elves or half-elves. Classes: This kit seems naturally suited for Clerical types, but it is conceivable that other character types might make suitable Restorationists. At the DM's option, Fighters (including Rangers and Paladins), Psionicists, Magic-Users (though not Specialists), may all become Restorationists. Possible Campaign Notes: Restorationists can appear anywhere on Mystara you'd like, naturally, but here are a few suggested locations- Glantri- Restorationists would be in high demand in the strongly anti-clerical Principality, particularly in the undead infested regions. The monastery of Lhamsa, hidden high in the mountains, seems a likely location for such practitioners to hide out. Island Nations- The mystic order that lives on Blackrock Island, in the Minrothad Guilds, might be home to some Restorationists. Similarly, the (often addled) mystics of White Island, in Ierendi, may be Restorationists... if they can be communicated with. Karameikos- A Restorationist or two would probably find much work for them in the undead haunted domains of this nation. Darokin- The Restorationists Guild might be most prosperous in this mercantile nation. Devoid of major religious movements, they might be sought out as an alternative. (Of course, there doesn't seem to be a major undead problem here, so...) Anyway, I just made this up on the spur of the moment, so there will probalby be some things I overlooked, and some problems/overpower/underpower, who knows. Let me know what you think! Andrew "Cthulhudrew" Theisen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 05:00:01 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about Scolls of Communication In a message dated 2/3/99 9:23:35 AM Central Standard Time, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no writes: << I'd say yes. AFAIK the only limitation to the scrolls is that they have to be on the same plane of existance, which means that they would work if one is on MJupiter and one is on Mystara, or whatever. OTOH I dont think it would be that unreasonable if the DM chose to disallow it. Håvard >> By the way...not to slip off subject, On Shawn Stanley's site I saw an article for Mystara Space? Did these people get this from any TSR publication, or did they create these on their own.? Just thought I'd ask if there were any publications on this. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 05:02:15 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Fwd: School of Magecraft] In a message dated 2/3/99 11:16:33 AM Central Standard Time, galwylin@airnet.net writes: << Lille My wrote: This is something sent to me back in April 1998 for a net project on the Karameikan School of Magecraft. Since I will probably not be keeping the project open, I thought the list would enjoy the original write up. >> There is a website by this person now.......cant remember what it was though... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 05:08:21 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Restorationist Sounds cool to me.......... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 11:42:47 +0100 From: Ezio Pignatelli Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Skin Trade [adventure] Marco Dalmonte wrote: > This is just the introduction and the first half of the First Day, but if > you seem to like him, I might be persuaded to post the whole thing bit by > bit. It's basically a crime story, so the way I'm arranging it will make it > possible for you trying to guess what really happened as if you were > actually playing it (or at least I hope so). > Either you do it, or you post it to me privately. :) *persuade* *persuade* - -- Ezio Pignatelli - Dipartimento di Astronomia - Padova Tel: +39-49-8293459 - Fax: +39-49-8759840 mailto:pignatelli@pd.astro.it http://leda.pd.astro.it/~epignat - -- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 11:42:56 +0100 From: Ezio Pignatelli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spells Jenni A. M. Merrifield wrote: > Also, if you like these, and anyone is interested, I also have a number > of spells that aren't exactly "New" -- they are roughly based on a small > number of 1st Ed AD&D spells, but have been modified in various ways (i.e., > level changes, result changes, etc.) to better fit into my perception of > oD&D wizard magic. well, if the overall quality is the same as the one you presented, I am waiting for them! > PS: In case anyone is interested: my son Nathan is now 4-1/2 months old > and doing just fine! We just had him baptised a couple of weeks ago, and > now he's starting to learn how to roll over. I love being a Mom! > - -JAMM ca't say I agree with the baptized thing, but It's just my envy of you ;) - -- Ezio Pignatelli - Dipartimento di Astronomia - Padova Tel: +39-49-8293459 - Fax: +39-49-8759840 mailto:pignatelli@pd.astro.it http://leda.pd.astro.it/~epignat - -- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 12:20:13 +0100 From: Kristian Kramer Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - The Skin Trade [adventure] Well, let me put it this way. I like it very much and wouldn't mind at all to receive the other parts (and there are many others on this list who, I'm sure, agree with me). Or to stay in the crime scene, the Big Papa said: "If you don't post this to the list we will be forced to visit you and commit a crime..." :-) And that's not a threat, that's a promise. ;-) So give us more. We want more! Etc... Are you persuaded now? o-: Kristian Kramer > -----Original Message----- > From: DM [SMTP:mdalmonte@provincia.ra.it] > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 3:51 PM > To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM > Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Skin Trade [adventure] > > Hi everyone! > > Since Jennifer replied positively to my question regarding your interest > in > reading an adventure I wrote for the MystaraWriters Forum, and since I > have > not heard news from that forum since last year, I have decided to post > here > a bit of my adventure, just to see if it intrigues you. > > This is just the introduction and the first half of the First Day, but if > you seem to like him, I might be persuaded to post the whole thing bit by > bit. It's basically a crime story, so the way I'm arranging it will make > it > possible for you trying to guess what really happened as if you were > actually playing it (or at least I hope so). > > Read and let me know.. > > DM > > > The Skin Trade > By Marco Dalmonte > > > Foreword > This adventure is based on George R.R. Martin's short story The Skin > Trade > (see: Night Visions 5; copyright Dark Harvest Inc., 1988). The adventure > is > set in Darokin, in the town of Hendry. If this location is not good for a > specific campaign then the town may be any one located near a river and > some > hills covered with light woods. The town must not be an important or rich > settlement: rather it should be a low middle class settlement, probably > declined in importance in the last decades. The town mostly subsists on > logging and small trade, though it once also exported furs and precious > metals. > The Skin Trade deals with the PCs' investigation of a series of gruesome > deaths. The PCs will have to discover the whole truth in a brief time (a > week or less), mainly through the use of good sense and their wits rather > than raw force. > The whole explanation of the events described in the adventure has > pourposefully been written at the end of it in order to give to the DMs > too > the opportunity to savour the mystery surrounding the story and to make > their own guesses about what's going on (taking the players' point of view > to spot possible inconsistencies). > Remember to read carefully the description of each character > involved in > the story (provided at the end of the adventure) before playing out the > adventure: it will help you to better understand what's going on and what > are the motivations of the characters to appropriately play the NPCs. > This adventure has been designed for 4 to 8 characters of level 4-6 (it > has > already been playtested by a group of 8 PCs of 6th level). > > > Setting Up the Adventure > The adventure revolves around two main characters: Wilhelm Feuerbach > and > Antares Thuriman. The PCs can either be friends of one or the other, but > the > best option is that one of the PCs play the role of Antares (with his/her > background designed in order to fit this adventure), or at least be a very > close friend/relative of her. > [Note that from now on it is assumed that the PCs are friends of Antares > and > so the adventure is centered on her. The DM could also play the adventure > using Willie's point of view with some reworking, although it could spoil > much of the mystery by doing so.] > The party comes to town in order to visit their long missed friend (or in > case one of them is Antares, in order to visit her family) and the DM must > be able to persuade them to stay there for at least a couple of days (in > Mystara, the exact season or month is not important, but it must be near > the > half of the month, possibly on the 12th or 13th day -full moon cycle). > During the following days, the party meets some old aquaintances in town > (either Antares's friends or their own), among them: Achen Thuriman > (Antares's brother), Isabel Thuriman (Antares's mother), Joseph Urqvarth > (old friend of the Thuriman family), Mischa (Achen's friend and guardsman) > and Cassandra and Angela Aretus (daughters of a rich merchant), probably > while shopping in town or at night in a good tavern. Have the PCs > socialize > with them and try also to have the most attractive/charismatic male PCs > impress the Aretus twins, possibly starting a love story. > > > DAY 1 > > Wilhelm's Visit > One morning (once the PCs have familiarized with the town, but no more > than > 3 days after their arrival) a man named Wilhelm (an old friend of Antares > who has heard of her arrival in town but had not shown up yet) comes to > Antares's house and asks her a personal favour. He's a rather small man > (5'4'' tall) with long brown hair worn in a ponytail, green eyes and a > lean > figure. He wears a long dark brown surcoat over a simple white blouse and > black leather pants and boots. Apart from a couple of pouches at his belt > and a small dagger, he carries nothing other. Willie seems distressed and > tells her in private (he doesn't know nor trust the other members of the > party) that he suspects something horrible happened to a dear friend of > him, > Giovanna Lizzieni, the night before. He knows Antares is "a trustworthy > and > resourceful person, a girl who has always helped her friends" and so he > asks > her to discover if the guards have found out anything about her friend. > Antares can do this without problem, for her brother, Achen, is one of the > townsguards, like her father was. Willie also explains her that he cannot > ask the guards directly because he is "not really in touch with them" and > they could blame him for whatever happened to Giovanna. > In fact, they were close friends and the night before they should have > met, > but Willie had other businesses to attend and so he didn't come to the > meeting. When he went to her house the next morning, he found guards > roaming > everywhere, and he sensed there was something wrong: so, after thinking a > bit, he came to Antares to seek her help. He cannot possibly reveal where > he > was yesterday night, so he has virtually no alibi (should he need one). > Willie doesn't know (or pretends to) what happened to Giovanna, but he > thinks she's dead (though he doesn't say it explicitely). He really pleas > Antares for her help, reminding her of all the favours she owes him > (invent > something), and invites her to be discreet even with her brother or any > other person she will talk with: his name must not be revealed. If Antares > accepts, then it's up to her to inform the other members of the party (she > should enlist their aid, of course): the adventure has just begun. > > Starting The Investigation > Antares has various sources of information she can exploit (in case > Antares > is a PC, the DM should tell this to her): > * Achen Thuriman: she can ask her brother about Giovanna. Achen is a > Sergeant, so he has some power over the guards and can obtain the > information she's seeking. However, since he is not directly implied in > the > investigations, he should come up with a plausible reason for questioning > his fellows over this matter. And he also wants to know why Antares is so > interested in a person she doesn't even know. Achen will try to discover > why > Antares wants that information (call it professional distortion) before > giving it away, and will then become himself intrigued by the case. > * Joseph Urqvart: the current Chief of the Guards was the best friend of > Antares's father and will be more than happy to receive Antares's visit. > He's a nice man in his forties and if Antares presses him, he will tell > her > that Giovanna was murdered and "mutilated". This word will arouse strange > feelings in Antares (see her background), but the Chief will reassure her > that there are no similarities with her father's death. However, he > refuses > to tell more about the murder and invites her to ignore the case, since > they > have already a good track to follow. He also invites her to dinner with > his > family to lower the possible tension created by his reticence (he really > cares for Antares and her family, anyway). If Antares goes to the dinner, > Chief Urqvart will spend most of the evening talking about the past times > and her father, and will gently pilot the conversation away from any > possible reference to the Lizzieni murder. > * Bartholomeo Diaz: Antares can remember this guy only with an > Intelligence > Check. This is a famous personality among the town lowlife, a renowned > burglar and thief who often helped his father in the past to find > dangerous > criminals and to jail rival thieves. Bartholomeo visited Antares's mother > a > couple of times after her father's death and helped her overcome the grief > for the loss of the husband (see his description). Antares never really > liked this man, but she knows she can get precious information, and could > come to him as a last resource. Bartholomeo listens to her questions and > promises he will obtain the information regarding the murder (when it > happened and how, possibly with the suspects) in a matter of hours... for > an > appropriate price. Bartholomeo also knows that Rutger Helander has been > spotted in town only a couple of days ago, but he won't tell this to > Antares > unless she specifically asks it. > * Lizzieni House: Giovanna lived in a small one storey house in the > low-class part of the town. Attached to her house there is another quite > decrepit dwelling where an old lady live. Lizzieni House is currently > closed > and the guards leave it after midday, so if the party wants to enter and > inspect it they can do it without problems, provided they act stealthly. > Inside they will find: a dining room with an old hand loom in one corner, > a > small kitchen/pantry, and the sleeping room. The rooms are all poorly > furnished except for the sleeping room, where there is a large carved > mirror > on top of a toilet table with some make-ups, and a chest full of female > dresses, some of them really nice and handmade by Giovanna. The sleeping > room is a total mess and there are spots of blood all around the room, in > particular near the bed (clear result of a fight against her aggressor). > No > other evidences can be found here. > * Sorensen House: this is the house of Giovanna's old neighbour. The > woman, > Christa Sorensen (78 years old), was a friend of Giovanna's parents and > after the accident (see Giovanna's background) she helped the girl live on > as if she was her true daughter. She often tended the girl during the day > and helped with her waving job. If questioned, she looks to be really > prostrated by the terrible event and talks with distress of Giovanna's > death > (she won't refuse to talk, however, especially if the party shows to be > kind > and interested in finding out the culprit). She tells them that the night > before she cooked Giovanna the dinner as usual and left her in the dining > room, where she was still working at a dress. Giovanna seemed happier in > the > last two weeks, and even younger, as if something had finally given back > to > her the lost youth. She suspects that the girl had a lover, and she had in > fact seen many times the shadow of a man entering the house during the > last > days, always long after dawn. She discovered the corpse the morning after, > when she entered Giovanna's house after the girl hadn't replied to her > calls. The door was locked as usual, but she had her own keys and when she > entered the sleeping room she witnessed the horrid scene (see description > of > the Death scene below). Shocked, she cried out many times and ran outside, > where she found a guardsman and told him of the murder. She admit she > didn't > hear anything the night before, but then she is quite deaf given her old > age... > * Other neighbours: the other building left of Lizzieni House is a grocery > store that was closed when the murder happened (its owner lives on the > other > side of the street). All of the people living in the nearby houses > remember > Giovanna as a kind unlucky person, but they didn't see nor hear anything > the > night of the deed. Some of them remember seeing a person visiting Giovanna > after dark, if asked, but they are not sure they saw this person the night > of the murder. > * Morgue/Cemetery: the town morgue is inside the cemetery and Giovanna's > corpse has already been put inside a coffin. The funeral will be held the > morning after (DAY 2), so if the party is really desperate (or daring > enough), they can bribe the local undertaker, Jebediah Sprigg, to let them > give a quick look at the corpse. Jebediah is a renowned drunkyard and can > be > persuaded easily. Alternatively, the party could use some magic to sneak > into the obituary and inspect the corpse. Whichever the case, at first > sight > the corpse appear completely skinned from toes to head. A more scrupolous > observation (or an Int check at -3) will reveal however that there are > clear > marks of burnings around the wrists and ankles. However, the bed didn't > show > any traces of burnings. No other particular evidence here. > > Death Scene Description > The party can get this information either by Christa Sorensen, Achen > Thuriman or Bartholomeo Diaz. The more detailed and precious descriptions > will be the last two, while the old lady could forget something (DM's > roleplay). The guards' report reads as follows: > "Upon entering the house, no clear sign of fight or burglary was > noticed. > The main door was open but the neighbour, Christa Sorensen, had previously > stated that she had opened it with her own keys. The door of the sleeping > room was also open (left open by C.S. after running outside) and it > revealed > the horrible scene inside. The whole bed was soaked with blood, with > stains > of blood also covering the north and west walls. A clear trail of blood > also > went from the toilet table near the east wall to the bed (the girl was > probably sitting in front of the toilet table when her murderer stabbed > her > for the first time) and a crashed lantern was also found near the toilet > table. A wheelchair was found wrecked near the closed window in the south > wall of the room, with the ripped dress of the victim (identified by C.S.) > near the crashed wheelchair, not completely covered with blood. > The mutilated corpse of the victim, Giovanna Lizzieni (25 years > old), was > found on the bed. It was completely skinned, with her bowels and bones > exposed but still in place. To notice that she was chained to the corners > of > the bed (ankles and wrists) with silvered manacle of unknown manufacture. > At > first sight the corpse presented no signs of broken bones nor any other > harm > caused by lethal weapons. After searching the house, the skin was still > missing, and no trace of blood was discovered outside the sleeping room. > It is believed that the murderer used some kind of small knife or > blade to > skin the victim so thoroughly, and then probably put the skin inside a > container (waterproof sack or large box) to take it without leaving > trails. > It is also believed that he washed his boots with the water held in a > small > toilet basin before leaving the sleeping room, in order not to leave > tracks. > The identity of the murderer is still unknown, but there are reasons to > believe the criminal knew the victim, since there are no signs of > housebreaking." > > DM Notes: the players should notice that there are three strange things in > this scene. > First of all, since Giovanna was paralytic (she couldn't use her legs, > that's why she had the wheelchair found inside the room), why has the > murderer chained to the bed both her wrists AND ANKLES? He has surely > noticed she couldn't walk when he entered the room (or maybe he knew it > ever > since, if he is a friend of her), so why the chains at the legs? > Second point: how could a paralytic girl oppose his murderer so fiercely > as > the evidences found inside the room show (blood spilled all around the > room > and many signs of wrestling)? > Third and last point: why has the murderer used such a particular item to > bind the girl (silver manacles) without removing them once he quit the > scene? Did he do it on pourpose to leave behind a clear mark for the > guards > to find? Does this mean the PCs have just discovered the first victim of a > serial killer? > > [temporary end of part 1] > > ************************************************************************** > * > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the > line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #50 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, February 5 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 051 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Penhaligion Re: [MYSTARA] - Penhaligion Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about Scolls of Communication Re: [MYSTARA] - The Skin Trade (adventure) Re: [MYSTARA] - Penhaligion Re: [MYSTARA] - Penhaligion [MYSTARA] - TSR's new marketing strategy Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's new marketing strategy Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about Scolls of Communication Re: [MYSTARA] - Penhaligion Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's new marketing strategy RE: [MYSTARA] - Question about Scolls of Communication Re: [MYSTARA] - Penhaligion Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's new marketing strategy RE: [MYSTARA] - URL Correction [MYSTARA] - Orc's Head Re: [MYSTARA] - Orc's Head Re: [MYSTARA] - Orc's Head Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's new marketing strategy Re: [MYSTARA] - Orc's Head [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE - multiverse ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 12:10:20 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin Turner Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Penhaligion On Tue, 2 Feb 1999, Frederic Ferro wrote: > The Mystaran novels (like some Oerth novels) have not a reputation > of quality or consistency (are the Savage Coast novels better?). > In fact, the only good TSR novels I've read were those by Jeff Grubb. > It's a pity Bruce Heard did not publish any Mystaran novels except > the short stories in the game supplements. > > Fred Have you read the early Drizzt Do'Urden novelsby RA Salvatore? Those were pretty good. The longer the series went on, though, the worse they got. I haven't even bothered with the last one. - --Frobozz-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 12:47:32 -0500 (EST) From: Frederic Ferro Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Penhaligion On Thu, 4 Feb 1999, Kevin Turner wrote: > > The Mystaran novels (like some Oerth novels) have not a reputation > > of quality or consistency (are the Savage Coast novels better?). > > In fact, the only good TSR novels I've read were those by Jeff Grubb. > Have you read the early Drizzt Do'Urden novelsby RA Salvatore? Those > were pretty good. The longer the series went on, though, the worse they > got. I haven't even bothered with the last one. The Ice Dale series by Salvatore was really awful IMO. That prevented me from reading the Dark Elf cycle in spite of their popularity. These novels could be better of course but life is short... ObMystara: Do "our" Neutral Shadow Elves have arachnid pets like the Oerth/Toril Dark Elves? Did anyone see the new plans by TSR: Oerth is going to be the basic setting and Toril will be the world for "advanced" players. Fred *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 10:05:42 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about Scolls of Communication >By the way...not to slip off subject, On Shawn Stanley's site I saw an article >for Mystara Space? Did these people get this from any TSR publication, or did >they create these on their own.? >Just thought I'd ask if there were any publications on this. The MystaraSpace project is one by members of this list, including DM and others (sorry, I can't remember who else!;) The material, AFAIK, is their own, based on sparse canon info. However (*shameless plug alert!*), there are other versions of MSpace; for example, I have developed a different solar system for Mystara, using the planets illustrated in CM7, Tree of Life, as well as a few of my own. I haven't posted it here yet, as I can't get the table to go right, but you can find it at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/solarsy stem.html Jenn Explore Dark Myst Manor! http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 10:10:39 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Skin Trade (adventure) More! More! (See? Now aren't you guys glad I persuaded him to post it in the first place?) ;-)~ ;-) Jenn Explore Dark Myst Manor! http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 13:24:11 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin Turner Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Penhaligion On Thu, 4 Feb 1999, Frederic Ferro wrote: > ObMystara: Do "our" Neutral Shadow Elves have arachnid pets like the > Oerth/Toril Dark Elves? > Did anyone see the new plans by TSR: Oerth is going to be the basic setting > and Toril will be the world for "advanced" players. > > Fred I haven't seen anything that makes the Shadow Elves clones of drow, but I could be wrong. I don't happen to have a lot of material on the Shadow Elves. I rather suspect, though, it would have more to do with their Immortal patron, since Lolth (Lloth, or whatever) is their reason for the spider-fetish in drow-ville. Anyone know for certain? - --Frobozz-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 13:27:00 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin Turner Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Penhaligion Also, Fred, no I hadn't heard anything about making Oerth the basic world and Toril the advanced one. Doesn't that make no sense , then for their reasoning in getting rid of OD&D and Mystara? Somebody swat those idiots. - --Frobozz-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:29:37 -0800 From: "Harvey, Michael" Subject: [MYSTARA] - TSR's new marketing strategy Kevin wrote: > Also, Fred, no I hadn't heard anything about making Oerth the > basic world and Toril the advanced one. Doesn't that make no > sense, then for their reasoning in getting rid of OD&D and > Mystara? Somebody swat those idiots. Here's the message I saw on rec.games.frp.dnd, for those who missed it: - -- BEGIN QUOTED MESSAGE -- Subject: TSR/AD&D News from Distributor Meeting Author: Kebenaran Date: 1/31/99 I just received this from a gaming store whose distributor just attended the WOTC distributor's meeting in Seattle. Some interesting info on the future of AD&D: >>>>>> TSR Wizards has analyzed the TSR line and come to several conclusions. The line has become too wide and diversified over the last several years to be managed reasonably. They are going to reduce the number of new releases by approximately 25 percent and regulate the back list. Greyhawk and the Forgotten Realms will continue to be fully supported. Greyhawk will become the core world for AD&D and Forgotten Realms will be the campaign world for the more advanced player. The other campaign worlds that are currently being produced will be scaled back and have fewer releases. Those releases will be playable in any campaign setting. Alternity will continue to be fully supported as well. <<<<<<<<<<< Make of all this what you will... I guess by making FR the campaign world for the 'advanced' gamer, they mean power, high-level playing game world, with lots of detail fleshed out. It also seems that 3rd Ed. AD&D is a fait accompli in case anyone still had any doubts, as Peter Adkinson mentioned it several times at a recent GAMA meeting. William K. McCarthy kebenaran@aol.com Rec.games.frp.marketplace FAQ can be found at: http://welcome.to/RGFM_FAQ e-mail address for spambots: uce@ftc.gov *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 14:52:16 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's new marketing strategy On Thu, 4 Feb 1999, Harvey, Michael wrote: > Make of all this what you will... I guess by making FR the campaign world > for the 'advanced' gamer, they mean power, high-level playing game world, > with lots of detail fleshed out. It also seems that 3rd Ed. AD&D is a fait > accompli in case anyone still had any doubts, as Peter Adkinson mentioned it > several times at a recent GAMA meeting. Why does this not surprise me. Not that FR is really that good anyway. I don't understand why they just throw away over 10 years of development on the already nearly fully fleshed out world of Mystara, to concentrate on the junk that is FR. It boggles the mind. When FR gets PWA's or Gazetteers Then talk to me. Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:29:23 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about Scolls of Communication In a message dated 2/4/99 12:07:30 PM Central Standard Time, valerya@hotmail.com writes: << The MystaraSpace project is one by members of this list, including DM and others (sorry, I can't remember who else!;) The material, AFAIK, is their own, based on sparse canon info. However (*shameless plug alert!*), there are other versions of MSpace; for example, I have developed a different solar system for Mystara, using the planets illustrated in CM7, Tree of Life, as well as a few of my own. I haven't posted it here yet, as I can't get the table to go right, but you can find it at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/solarsy stem.html Jenn >> Cool......i think i may have already checked it out.......i will again though *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:33:17 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Penhaligion In a message dated 2/4/99 12:32:40 PM Central Standard Time, sg96d355@drexel.edu writes: << I haven't seen anything that makes the Shadow Elves clones of drow, but I could be wrong. I don't happen to have a lot of material on the Shadow Elves. I rather suspect, though, it would have more to do with their Immortal patron, since Lolth (Lloth, or whatever) is their reason for the spider-fetish in drow-ville. Anyone know for certain? --Frobozz-- >> I would say that they are nothing like the Drow elves. i agree, the Drow are so involved with spiders because of Lloth.....but its possible that they have tamed some spiders due to their long existance underground Nurvel *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 12:54:39 -0800 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's new marketing strategy >On Thu, 4 Feb 1999, Harvey, Michael wrote: >> Make of all this what you will... I guess by making FR the campaign world >> for the 'advanced' gamer, they mean power, high-level playing game world, >> with lots of detail fleshed out. It also seems that 3rd Ed. AD&D is a fait >> accompli in case anyone still had any doubts, as Peter Adkinson mentioned it >> several times at a recent GAMA meeting. >Why does this not surprise me. >Not that FR is really that good anyway. I don't understand why they just >throw away over 10 years of development on the already nearly fully >fleshed out world of Mystara, to concentrate on the junk that is FR. It >boggles the mind. >When FR gets PWA's or Gazetteers Then talk to me. >Ethan >www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. Hello All, Well Ethan, as usual you and I are somewhat on the same side- but not entirely. I am not a fan of the Realms preferring Mystara and Greyhawk to them. However, I feel that many of the developments that went into the Realms did not belong in Mystara, although I also feel that GH could of held them just fine. To me, Mystara is just too fantastic for them. I mean a lot of newer works have equated the Kingdoms of Mystara to real-world cultures, and there have always been superficial similarities but not enough to base them off of a real-world culture. For example most of us would agree (I think) that Ylaruam is rather Arabic in nature but putting something like Al-Qadim in Ylaruam would just be somehow wrong. It would do neither Al-Qadim nor Ylaruam justice. I feel wholly that Al-Qadim could have been worked into GH with no problem though. As far as PWA's and Gaz's in the Realms... Well, they do have imitations of sorts. Have you ever read any of the Marco Volo's Guides? Also, there have been at least 13 full boxed sets created for the Realms. All of what has been put into the Realms may well have been as good as what went into Mystara had TSR used Designers as good as those which developed Mystara. I believe that the older designers worked with cause and effect within the context of the game. Basically, the Blade-singer kit may be cool, but it won't fit into the overall design of the game so we cut it. The newer designers seem more into the cause and effect within the context of reality- even if it's a fantasy reality. You wouldn't believe how many times I've heard Mr. Gygax, for instance, say "Don't accept the Dragons, then choke on the Gnats"... in the past. A philosophy that he still adheres to today. While the newer designers seem to be doing just that. Of course I am not stating the above things as any sort of "hard fact" just my opinion and observations- definitely open to discussion, especially for those who were involved. E.G. Bruce, Frank, and Harold AFAIK. Later. Jesse. vanquer@email.msn.com http://www.gryffon.com/leta for all your role-playing needs ICQ. 30334260 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:58:43 +0800 From: Murphy Jason Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Question about Scolls of Communication Umm. I hope nothing is wrong. But I got a Geocities "Couldn't find that file message" when I tried to look at it just 5 mins ago. Well 5 mins from the posting of this anyway. Jason Murphy Software Engineer MITS Limited EMAIL:  HYPERLINK mailto:jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au PHONE: 08 9481 4066 FAX: 08 9481 4064 -----Original Message----- From: Jennifer Favia [SMTP:valerya@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, February 05, 1999 2:06 AM To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about Scolls of Communication >By the way...not to slip off subject, On Shawn Stanley's site I saw an article >for Mystara Space? Did these people get this from any TSR publication, or did >they create these on their own.? >Just thought I'd ask if there were any publications on this. The MystaraSpace project is one by members of this list, including DM and others (sorry, I can't remember who else!;) The material, AFAIK, is their own, based on sparse canon info. However (*shameless plug alert!*), there are other versions of MSpace; for example, I have developed a different solar system for Mystara, using the planets illustrated in CM7, Tree of Life, as well as a few of my own. I haven't posted it here yet, as I can't get the table to go right, but you can find it at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/solarsy stem.html Jenn Explore Dark Myst Manor! http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 20:34:16 -0500 From: "Brian K Deuberry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Penhaligion > > >On Thu, 4 Feb 1999, Frederic Ferro wrote: > >> ObMystara: Do "our" Neutral Shadow Elves have arachnid pets like the >> Oerth/Toril Dark Elves? >> Did anyone see the new plans by TSR: Oerth is going to be the basic setting >> and Toril will be the world for "advanced" players. >> >> Fred It's funny. When my players first encountered the Shadow Elves, they kept referring to them as Drow. I didn't correct then nor did I do anything that would make them out to be Drow(beyond them getting attacked). But there encounter was brief. Somewhere down the road they'll get a better idea that them boys aren't Drow. I seem to recall the mention of spiders being used as beasts of burden but it's been awhile since I read the GAZ on them. BK *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 20:50:00 -0500 From: "Brian K Deuberry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's new marketing strategy - -----Original Message----- From: SteelAngel To: 'mystara-l@MPGN.COM' Date: Thursday, February 04, 1999 9:55 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's new marketing strategy >On Thu, 4 Feb 1999, Harvey, Michael wrote: > >> Make of all this what you will... I guess by making FR the campaign world >> for the 'advanced' gamer, they mean power, high-level playing game world, >> with lots of detail fleshed out. It also seems that 3rd Ed. AD&D is a fait >> accompli in case anyone still had any doubts, as Peter Adkinson mentioned it >> several times at a recent GAMA meeting. > >Why does this not surprise me. >Not that FR is really that good anyway. I don't understand why they just >throw away over 10 years of development on the already nearly fully >fleshed out world of Mystara, to concentrate on the junk that is FR. It >boggles the mind. > >When FR gets PWA's or Gazetteers Then talk to me. > >Ethan I love Mystara because it's not half as detailed as FR. There's just enough to work with in a solid framework that I can weave my own personality into the game world. I feel that I really loose that with FR - it's way over documented for my tastes. The second problem is the people I play with. Not that theres really a problem but whenever the campaign gets set in FR....well....they know FR very well and expect certain people, places, and events to be somewhat static. They know nothing about Mystara and never think twice when some noted personalities are in Thaytis instead of Karmeikos 'cause it just worked better for the play. I know this has nothing to do with the topic beyond a view against the over publishing of any campaign setting. If Mystara got the same treatment as FR I'm sure that my campaign settings would be GH. IMO GH is a fine place to play and may be our next target. But for now Mystara is king. BK *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 18:05:54 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - URL Correction >Umm. I hope nothing is wrong. But I got a Geocities "Couldn't find that file >message" when I tried to look at it just 5 mins ago. Well 5 mins from the >posting of this anyway. Sorry! ;-\ ...Once again, Hotmail turned a line-break into a break in the html. If this doesn't spce right, you might want to type in the whole thing manually...Sorry for the inconvenience. The URL is: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/solarsystem.html Jenn ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 18:31:19 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Orc's Head Hi all, I had heard that the Orc's Head Peninsula was detailed in an online accessory on TSR's site...but I can't find it to save my life!!! Does anyone have a direct URL that *isn't* to a .zip file? Or have a version of it saved as html or txt? Thanks, Jenn ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 22:10:12 -0500 From: "Brian K Deuberry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Orc's Head > >Hi all, > >I had heard that the Orc's Head Peninsula was detailed in an online >accessory on TSR's site...but I can't find it to save my life!!! Does >anyone have a direct URL that *isn't* to a .zip file? Or have a version >of it saved as html or txt? > >Thanks, > >Jenn > They took all of that "free" material off of there web site. I once had it and foolishly deleted it thinking that I could get it any time from the net. Good luck on finding it. I'm sure somebody still has a copy. Although it was fairly lengthy to send in text format. BK *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 23:22:20 -0800 From: dlegend@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Orc's Head You can get it here: http://www.tsr.com/ADND/Downloads.html dlegend@earthlink.net - -----Original Message----- From: Jennifer Favia To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM Date: Thursday, February 04, 1999 6:47 PM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Orc's Head > >Hi all, > >I had heard that the Orc's Head Peninsula was detailed in an online >accessory on TSR's site...but I can't find it to save my life!!! Does >anyone have a direct URL that *isn't* to a .zip file? Or have a version >of it saved as html or txt? > >Thanks, > >Jenn > > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:58:40 +1100 (EST) From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's new marketing strategy Firstly - re: Ethan's mail - ditto. Secondly, the Mystara setting seems definitely to be off life support and it aint never gonna go back on... Anyone interested in serious netpublishing of professional quality stuff for a world that is somewhat identical [ :) ] to everyone's favourite KW? Oerth for basic players - oh yeah that will work FR for advanced players - or just rich ones "oh the humanity" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 00:29:37 -0500 From: "Brian K Deuberry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Orc's Head >You can get it here: > >http://www.tsr.com/ADND/Downloads.html > >dlegend@earthlink.net > I'm an idiot. I think I even saw stuff in txt format. Wow. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 16:35:18 +1100 (EST) From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" Subject: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE One item missing from the Mystara Grimoire so far is a list of personalised Wizards to use when making spells, the equivalent of eg Otiluke, Phandaal, Tenser, etc. What we need is a list, however long, with the NAME, BIO, and SCHOOL OR AREA OF INTEREST of each wizard or other spellcaster, eg, THREADGOLD A human from Wayland City, he has spent three decades perfecting metamagical spells. He is an inveterate gambler. METAMAGIC, ALTERATION, a few CHARM spells etc. Please mail as many wizards as possible and we'll all critique em before I include them. Once we have them as summaries it becomes easy to flesh out spells under their name, just as Otiluke gets his sphere spells, etc. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:37:20 +1100 (EST) From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" Subject: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE - multiverse the grimoire will now also include a gazeteer-style list of "parallel worlds" ie versions of Mystara significantly different from the official ones to merit inclusion. if you have such a setting please email me a paragraph summary of it. note - parallel Mystaras for inclusion are not ones where Karameikos NPCs are slightly different but rather ones where DMs without the benefit of every scrap of published stuff have taken different approaches to fixing the continuity glitches, or campaigns where people have played without the Savage Coast, or with a radically different moon, or without the Princess Ark stuff -one of the best so far is a campaign with no WotI! a classic. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #51 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, February 5 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 052 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Question about Thyatis and Karameikos RE: [MYSTARA] - TSR's new marketing strategy Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about Thyatis and Karameikos Re: [MYSTARA] - How do i sign up for the AD&D MML Re: [MYSTARA] - [IP] Saimpt Loup Death by Dragon was Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - How do i sign up for the AD&D MML Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's new marketing strategy Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - How do i sign up for the AD&D MML RE: [MYSTARA] - TSR's new marketing strategy Re: [MYSTARA] - Penhaligion Re: [MYSTARA] - How do i sign up for the AD&D MML Re: [MYSTARA] - Orc's Head Re: [MYSTARA] - Orc's Head Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE - multiverse Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE - multiverse Re: Death by Dragon was Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Penhaligion Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE [MYSTARA] - The Skin Trade RE: [MYSTARA] - The Skin Trade Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - How do i sign up for the AD&D MML [MYSTARA] - Cultural Weapon & Armor Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 02:07:37 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Question about Thyatis and Karameikos I thought a few "hundred :)" posts ago I over heard someone speak of Thyatis attacking Karameikos. If so, is this just in there campaign or is it "canon". i havent had a chance to read AC1015 yet so...... Thanks Nurvel *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 09:44:19 +0100 From: Kristian Kramer Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - TSR's new marketing strategy That's another point there, the financial side of the case, Jonathan. If you want to play FR, you've got to buy a whole lot of books n' stuff. And that's very very expensive (especially here in Europe). And Brian is right in saying the level of detail is much too high in FR. Too high to surprise the players with strange and mysterious (Mystarian?) places and people. Of course one could use FR as some sort of base and develop from there, but I think Mystara (or even Greyhawk) work better instead? (For all involved: DM and players, except maybe for TSR Wizards :) That's my $0.2 worth Kristian > -----Original Message----- > From: Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA > [SMTP:geckoes@ozemail.com.au] > Sent: Friday, February 05, 1999 5:59 AM > To: 'mystara-l@MPGN.COM' > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's new marketing strategy > > > Firstly - re: Ethan's mail - ditto. > > Secondly, the Mystara setting seems definitely to be off life support and > it aint never gonna go back on... > Anyone interested in serious netpublishing of professional quality stuff > for a world that is somewhat identical [ :) ] to everyone's favourite KW? > > Oerth for basic players - oh yeah that will work > FR for advanced players - or just rich ones > > "oh the humanity" > > > ************************************************************************** > * > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the > line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 03:58:34 -0500 From: Jerry Hovenanian Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about Thyatis and Karameikos Nurvel@aol.com wrote: > I thought a few "hundred :)" posts ago I over heard someone speak of Thyatis > attacking Karameikos. If so, is this just in there campaign or is it "canon". > i havent had a chance to read AC1015 yet so...... The only thing i can recall is "Operation Hydra" that someone wrote. It was a Thyatis invasion of Minrothad. IIRC....this was mentioned on the list a while ago. I have some of the info on it...very well done. btw...anyone have the URL of the Operation Hydra site please post it for me, i lost it :(..... - -- Jerry Hovenanian clumsydwarf@hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:15:41 +0100 (MET) From: Agathokles Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - How do i sign up for the AD&D MML On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Andrew Toth wrote: > > > >But also, I don't think that an Immortal's magic is a function of Mystra's > >whim either. She may be the goddess of magic for Toril, but in a neutral > >plane/dimension, that's worthless. > > > > I suppose then the question is, where's the battle taking place then? > In the innermost layer of the Outlands, where their special powers are neutralized. Giampaolo Agosta *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:21:33 +0100 (MET) From: Agathokles Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [IP] Saimpt Loup On Mon, 1 Feb 1999, Frederic Ferro wrote: > > > Interesting description of Saimpt Loup! thanks! > > "Saint Loup" is also one of the main characters in the French novel by > Proust, "Remembrance of things past". Saint Loup looks like an archetype > of "machist Dom Juans" but discovers he is in fact homosexual. So this > is a strange name for the Lupin immortal for French players who know > the novel. I wonder if Bruce Heard had this in mind... > Another good name could be Ysengrin (the name of the Wolf in the > adventures of "Renart the Fox", tales from the Middle-Ages). > Maybe Renardois tell the story of Loup's quest to gain Renard's sponsorship as a tale of the tricks played by Renard on Ysengrin. Such "tasks" would fit Korotiku's sense of humor. Giampaolo Agosta *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 02:06:25 PST From: "paul dooley" Subject: Death by Dragon was Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara ><< BTW > the wee beastie had 80HD and was worth just under 500,000 xp! >> > >You know, some judgement is called for. Like not sending your players on a >suicide mission without hope of living..... They were warned! Their NPC allies told them that it was a death wish to try. The NPC party members all said NO! The job was to rescue some people who`d been taken by slavers. When this proved too easy they felt that since they were there they might as well just go and kill the dragon. I have NO regrets about that whatsoever. Stupidity SHOULD kill. Hamlet 1,v,166 Paul ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 02:10:59 PST From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - How do i sign up for the AD&D MML >Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:37:46 -0500 (EST) >From: SteelAngel >To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - How do i sign up for the AD&D MML >Reply-To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM > >On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, paul dooley wrote: > >> Foul! She`s got a mortal with more power than most gods on her side. > >Pah. One good look from Ixion, and Elminster's toast. Remember, Ixion can >spend about 10 TP, and send a rather large rock slamming down on Elminster >until there is nothing left - While still using his aura attacks and other >50+level (50d6!) magics against Mystra. > Just to nitpick it`s TWICE hd for spell effect isn`t it? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 05:11:50 -0500 From: Jerry Hovenanian Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's new marketing strategy TSR's new marketing strategy....didn't know they had an old one :) - -- Jerry Hovenanian clumsydwarf@hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 02:21:55 PST From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara >True enough. RPG's are not all dice roll games. Sometimes temperance is >required. Your Paladin didn't have powers, and your team didn't even get >off an attack. > No Powers! Well apart from Magic Resistance, Shapechange into Dracoform, Multiple Attacks, Vorpal Weapons, Etc. These characters had been played all the way up from 1st over 5 years real time & game time. Also they did get a full round of attacks before I finally entered melee. This was a case of `Push the Button` syndrome. They had all the pulled punches on the way to here. If you quest for Immortality then Ill be HARSH but fair. They were that cocky that they hadn`t even taken routine precautions (clones, Lumps of flesh left behind etc) which at this level, playing for these stakes is not just sensible but mandatory! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 02:27:19 PST From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - How do i sign up for the AD&D MML >> Mystra clicks her fingers, and Ixion is now without magic. Sadly, Ixion >> then throws a major temper tantrum and cuts her into very small pieces. > >And I doubt that Mystra is powerful enough to completely drain a full >Hierarch's PP. > >But also, I don't think that an Immortal's magic is a function of Mystra's >whim either. She may be the goddess of magic for Toril, but in a neutral >plane/dimension, that's worthless. > It`s got to be Toril. Ixion thinks of himself as a gentleman so would have to give the `woman` home field advantage. :P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 11:34:06 +0100 From: Kristian Kramer Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - TSR's new marketing strategy Lol!! (-: > -----Original Message----- > From: Jerry Hovenanian [SMTP:clumsydwarf@hotmail.com] > Sent: Friday, February 05, 1999 11:12 AM > To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's new marketing strategy > > TSR's new marketing strategy....didn't know they had an old one :) > > -- > Jerry Hovenanian clumsydwarf@hotmail.com > > > ************************************************************************** > * > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the > line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 02:40:08 PST From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Penhaligion >Did anyone see the new plans by TSR: Oerth is going to be the basic setting >and Toril will be the world for "advanced" players. > At the very least that`s got to be the wrong way round, Hasn`t it? Please! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 05:44:43 -0500 From: Jerry Hovenanian Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - How do i sign up for the AD&D MML paul dooley wrote: > >LMAO....I'll put $50 Mystra...I heard Elminster is in her conner :) > > > Foul! She`s got a mortal with more power than most gods on her side. > Mind you E`s supposed to have an eye for the ladies so why not Valerias > with Ixion? As I see it happining....Elminster(being a flirt)puts the moves on Valerias who is (of course) also a flirt. They start to make goo-goo eyes at each other. Ixion sees this and turns his back to strangle El. Mystra win with the help of her "Manager". And just so no one complains about the outcome....the fight was riged by Ao and the Old Ones. - -- Jerry Hovenanian clumsydwarf@hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 02:56:25 PST From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Orc's Head >They took all of that "free" material off of there web site But I reDownloaded it not more than a week ago. Mind you it might have been from another site! >Good luck on finding it. I'm sure somebody still has a copy. Although it >was fairly lengthy to send in text format. Would a self extracting zipfile be ok? Hamlet 1,v,166 Paul ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 02:56:31 PST From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Orc's Head >They took all of that "free" material off of there web site But I reDownloaded it not more than a week ago. Mind you it might have been from another site! >Good luck on finding it. I'm sure somebody still has a copy. Although it >was fairly lengthy to send in text format. Would a self extracting zipfile be ok? Hamlet 1,v,166 Paul ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 03:01:38 PST From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE - multiverse - -one of the best so far is a >campaign with no WotI! a classic. > It also gets my vote as the `official` line in case of resurection. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 22:31:23 +1100 (EST) From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE - multiverse > -one of the best so far is a > >campaign with no WotI! a classic. > > > It also gets my vote as the `official` line in case of resurection. oh yes indeed. WotI is a pus-marbled fart of decadence. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 07:47:32 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: Death by Dragon was Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara In a message dated 2/5/99 5:08:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, ezaqwazy@hotmail.com writes: << They were warned! Their NPC allies told them that it was a death wish to try. The NPC party members all said NO! The job was to rescue some people who`d been taken by slavers. When this proved too easy they felt that since they were there they might as well just go and kill the dragon. I have NO regrets about that whatsoever. Stupidity SHOULD kill. >> In that case, you are most definitely right. Ya didn't mention that the first time around. ;-) Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 07:57:40 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Penhaligion In a message dated 2/4/99 10:43:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, bkis1@in- motion.net writes: << It's funny. When my players first encountered the Shadow Elves, they kept referring to them as Drow. I didn't correct then nor did I do anything that would make them out to be Drow(beyond them getting attacked). But there encounter was brief. Somewhere down the road they'll get a better idea that them boys aren't Drow. I seem to recall the mention of spiders being used as beasts of burden but it's been awhile since I read the GAZ on them. >> They kept referring to the white skinned white haired elves as "drow"? LOL!!! Spiders are NOT a favored pet of the Shadow Elves. Skinwings and Rockhome Lizards are the most common of the beasts of burden in their underground home. Arminath *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 14:06:10 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA wrote: > > One item missing from the Mystara Grimoire so far is a list of > personalised Wizards to use when making spells, the equivalent of eg > Otiluke, Phandaal, Tenser, etc. > What we need is a list, however long, with the NAME, BIO, and SCHOOL OR > AREA OF INTEREST of each wizard or other spellcaster, eg, > > THREADGOLD > A human from Wayland City, he has spent three decades perfecting > metamagical spells. He is an inveterate gambler. > METAMAGIC, ALTERATION, a few CHARM spells a good place to start would be the Glantri Gazeteer... Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 00:27:33 +1100 (EST) From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE > > One item missing from the Mystara Grimoire so far is a list of > > personalised Wizards to use when making spells, the equivalent of eg > > Otiluke, Phandaal, Tenser, etc. > > What we need is a list, however long, with the NAME, BIO, and SCHOOL OR > > AREA OF INTEREST of each wizard or other spellcaster, eg, > > a good place to start would be the Glantri Gazeteer... No no no... ORIGINAL wizards, with ORIGINAL spells players or DMs have come up with. Then other people can use the shared character to group similar theme spells, eg the Fire spells go to Candela the Flaemish Arconologist, etc. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:18:30 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Skin Trade On Wed, 03 Feb 1999 19:39:43 GMT, "John Polacek" wrote: >So far, it sounds totally cool. This is exactly the kind of thing I was >looking for when I asked if anyone had any good mystara adventures >posted on the web. By all means, keep posting it on the list, as I'm >anxious to hear more. Well, thanks for the support, John, and thanks to Kristian, Ezio and Jennifer as well for their interest. Since to me three people make a crowd, then I'll go on posting the adventure, after I edit it a bit and try to finish the last sections (NPCs background, new spells and critters..). Expect the next part of the stuff for next week, however. ;) Just for your interest, this is probably one of the best adventures for roleplaying that I've ever mastered.. ;) >Is there anywhere I can find it in its entirety? I can never have to >many adventures in my files! Actually, yes, if you go to the MystaraWriters Forum the adventure is there for everyone to read. If you wanna know the URL, just go to my link page and search there... (sorry, I don't remember the URL firsthand.. ;)). MY linkpage is at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/ then click on "Mystara Links" DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:41:53 +0100 From: Kristian Kramer Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - The Skin Trade I can hardly wait, if it is as good as the introduction on your website, than we can expect something realy realy cool!! Kristian > -----Original Message----- > From: DM [SMTP:mdalmonte@provincia.ra.it] > Sent: Friday, February 05, 1999 3:19 PM > To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM > Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Skin Trade > > On Wed, 03 Feb 1999 19:39:43 GMT, "John Polacek" > wrote: > > >So far, it sounds totally cool. This is exactly the kind of thing I was > >looking for when I asked if anyone had any good mystara adventures > >posted on the web. By all means, keep posting it on the list, as I'm > >anxious to hear more. > > Well, thanks for the support, John, and thanks to Kristian, Ezio and > Jennifer as well for their interest. Since to me three people make a > crowd, > then I'll go on posting the adventure, after I edit it a bit and try to > finish the last sections (NPCs background, new spells and critters..). > Expect the next part of the stuff for next week, however. ;) > > Just for your interest, this is probably one of the best adventures for > roleplaying that I've ever mastered.. ;) > > >Is there anywhere I can find it in its entirety? I can never have to > >many adventures in my files! > > Actually, yes, if you go to the MystaraWriters Forum the adventure is > there > for everyone to read. If you wanna know the URL, just go to my link page > and > search there... (sorry, I don't remember the URL firsthand.. ;)). MY > linkpage is at: > > http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/ > > then click on "Mystara Links" > > DM > > ************************************************************************** > * > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the > line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:03:15 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara >a case of `Push the Button` syndrome. They had all the pulled punches on >the way to here. If you quest for Immortality then Ill be HARSH but >fair. They were that cocky that they hadn`t even taken routine >precautions (clones, Lumps of flesh left behind etc) which at this >level, playing for these stakes is not just sensible but mandatory! Yep, I'm playing Return to the Tomb of Horrors soon, and its reputed to be a character killer. Maximum precautions are being taken! The defences that can be taken tho are a little OTT. A high level mage is pretty well unkillable (permanently, at least). Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:04:41 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - How do i sign up for the AD&D MML >Elminster >>until there is nothing left - While still using his aura attacks and >other >>50+level (50d6!) magics against Mystra. I think only for mortal dispel magic attempts... As a further nitpick , I seem to remember a full hierarch has 45HD... but i dont know if that was Gold Book or WotI... Cheerz Lawyer Bob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:03:23 +0100 From: Lostboy@t-online.de (Klaus Kischkat) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Cultural Weapon & Armor Hello everyone! In the HW-set there are rules for cultural weapons & armors. I dislike the idea that a charakter gains cultural bonuses (like the antalian first level Fighter/ Thief or mage gets climb sheer surfaces at 77%) only if he wears this kind of armor or is using his cultural weapons. Okay, if a character learns the use of other weapons of armors in his carrear, why not? Another question. What do you think are the cultural weapons & armors of the known world? What could the Special Compensations of the nations in the known world be? ****************************************** A dwarf dies, but doesn`t surrender! - -Old dwarvish motto- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 11:36:10 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara In a message dated 2/5/99 10:07:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, rmunch@easynet.co.uk writes: << Yep, I'm playing Return to the Tomb of Horrors soon, and its reputed to be a character killer. Maximum precautions are being taken! The defences that can be taken tho are a little OTT. A high level mage is pretty well unkillable (permanently, at least). >> Unless your DM is being EXTREMELY nice, taking precautions against death (by leaving flesh to make clones, etc.) is pretty useless. After so far into the module, if a character dies his soul is drawn into Acererak's Phylactery. The module IS a character killer! I converted it to Mystara and placed the Tomb in the Malpheggi Swamp so my Karameikan group could explore it. A cleric 16, cleric 12, fighter 9, fighter 12, magic-user 20, thief 13, elf 12 all died at one point or another after they gained entry to the original tomb... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #52 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, February 5 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 053 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - How do i sign up for the AD&D MML Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE - multiverse Re: [MYSTARA] - The Skin Trade [MYSTARA] - Question about Ilsundal! Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about Ilsundal! Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Tomb of horrors Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about Thyatis and Karameikos Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about Ilsundal! Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's new marketing strategy Re: [MYSTARA] - The Mystaran Tomb of Horrors Re: [MYSTARA] - Tomb of horrors [MYSTARA] - More Stuff: Rules for Technomantic devices Re: [MYSTARA] - The Skin Trade Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about Thyatis and Karameikos [MYSTARA] - Re: Cultural Weapon & Armor [MYSTARA] - Ixion Vs Mystra Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's new marketing strategy Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's new marketing strategy ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 11:46:02 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - How do i sign up for the AD&D MML On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, paul dooley wrote: > >50+level (50d6!) magics against Mystra. > > > Just to nitpick it`s TWICE hd for spell effect isn`t it? That's why I put 50+. Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 12:03:46 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin Turner Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE - multiverse On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA wrote: > oh yes indeed. WotI is a pus-marbled fart of decadence. > Now that, my dear sir, must be the most interesting turn of phrase I have ever witnessed. I take my hat off to you. Frobozz, at your service. - --F-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 12:07:14 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin Turner Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Skin Trade Yes, absolutely! Let us see this masterpiece. As was just said, one can never have too many adventures handy. - --Frobozz-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:56:48 +0100 From: Lostboy@t-online.de (Klaus Kischkat) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Question about Ilsundal! This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BE5139.48940B00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello! Does anybody know, who the sponsor of Ilsundal was! - ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BE5139.48940B00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello!
 
Does anybody know, who = the sponsor of=20 Ilsundal was!
 
 
- ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BE5139.48940B00-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 10:06:50 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about Ilsundal! >Does anybody know, who the sponsor of Ilsundal was! I would imagine Ordana, as he was her follower, and led the "returnist" movement in a back-to-nature migration designed to re-acquaint them with her ways of old. Jenn ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:50:59 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara >Unless your DM is being EXTREMELY nice, taking precautions against death (by >leaving flesh to make clones, etc.) is pretty useless. Well, ive got a simulacrum guarding a piece of growing flesh, which has had a sink spell cast on it. After a year, the simulacrum will dig the clone up, and it will finish growing. That soul capturing stuff sounds bad tho. Maybe a pierce any shield and a reincarnation spell combined with clone? > After so far into the >module, if a character dies his soul is drawn into Acererak's Phylactery. Hmm. Counterspell immunity vs trap the soul? IIRC it stops similar spell like effects... failing that there is Wildshield, of course :) The reason I like mages... :) > The >module IS a character killer! I converted it to Mystara and placed the Tomb >in the Malpheggi Swamp so my Karameikan group could explore it. A cleric 16, >cleric 12, fighter 9, fighter 12, magic-user 20, thief 13, elf 12 all died at >one point or another after they gained entry to the original tomb... Now that sounds Bad. The DM did offer to all players that if they didnt want to risk their characters they could play it as a tournament (ie death/xp does not count) purely for fun rather than as part of the campaign. Maybe i'll take him up on the offer :) Out of interest, were they D&D or AD&D? Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 10:58:57 PST From: "Giggles P." Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tomb of horrors >Yep, I'm playing Return to the Tomb of Horrors soon, and its reputed to be a >character killer I played the original Tomb of Horrors a few dozen times, and never been able to get through it. Recently Return to The Tomb was given to a friend of mine of the DMly persuasion and i was wondering if anyone who has played them both would compare them. I also wondered if anyone made it through the original. If noone knows what I'm talking about feel free to ignore me. Giggles ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:59:37 EST From: BoBoII@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about Thyatis and Karameikos this might br in Bruce's World in Flames timeline. Do you have that? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 14:40:36 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about Ilsundal! In a message dated 2/5/99 1:00:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, Lostboy@t- online.de writes: << Does anybody know, who the sponsor of Ilsundal was! >> Nothing official exists in the Mystara "canon". Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 14:47:53 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's new marketing strategy Jonathan wrote: >Firstly - re: Ethan's mail - ditto. Same here! Mystara could easily, IMO, have been a flagship line, if only they'd put the work into it. >Secondly, the Mystara setting seems definitely to be off life support and >it aint never gonna go back on... >Anyone interested in serious netpublishing of professional quality stuff >for a world that is somewhat identical [ :) ] to everyone's favourite KW? Well, there's certainly a lot of that going on among MMLers! Mayhap it's time to repost that project list I submitted a couple of weeks ago, in which all of the projects that I know of are discussed? Also, is anyone out there working on any solo projects that they might wish to share? Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 14:51:07 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Mystaran Tomb of Horrors All of the suggestions to avoid the soul stealing properties are nice, but as the DM for the game I disallowed the characters using spells to counter it to succeed. Acererak has had milennia to perfect his knowledge of the soul and magic and no character would have the knowledge to counter it. The spells adventurers have would not be able to counter the near perfect spells Acererak has developed. The guy was a fiend that became a lich, then survived so long that the magic of his undead body couldn't hold out! The only thing I've allowed to help the character to survive dying is the Amulet of Life Protection, and that only worked 50% of the time. As for Acererak's direct soul stealing (of his skull) there is no defense. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:03:33 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tomb of horrors In a message dated 2/5/99 2:01:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, g1ggles@hotmail.com writes: << played the original Tomb of Horrors a few dozen times, and never been able to get through it. Recently Return to The Tomb was given to a friend of mine of the DMly persuasion and i was wondering if anyone who has played them both would compare them. I also wondered if anyone made it through the original. If noone knows what I'm talking about feel free to ignore me. >> I converted it to Mystara and set it in the Malpheggi Swamp. Very nasty, character killer indeed! I've run the module 5 times for different groups and recently the Return for one of the previous gropus. It requires, in addition to surviving an adventure that spans the planes, trekking through the original Tomb! So far, not 1 character has survived the Tomb, including 1 of my own. My DM is about to run it for the 1st time for our group, so I have high hopes and very high stakes in this one. Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:07:26 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: [MYSTARA] - More Stuff: Rules for Technomantic devices Here we go. If anyone has any problems/ideas, give me a mail! (I hope Stan is getting these :) Ethan Technomantic Construction: - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- New Skills: Magical Physics (Intelligence) This skill is the ability to understand the workings of a complex device based on a magical-technological theory. This skill is the pre-requisite to Advanced Magical Physics, and any other "physics" skill, and cannot be learned at first level. Advanced Magical Physics (Wisdom) This skill is the ability to design a complex device based on a magical-technological theory. Advanced Magical Physics is based on a form of real-world physics, taking into account magical effects. This skill cannot be taken until name level, and costs 2 skill slots. Technomagical Engineering (Intelligence) This skill is a more refined form of the Gnomish Machine Building (see PC 2) skill. It is the practical complement to Advanced Magical Physics. This skill allows the Technomage to implement the ideas learned in Advanced Magical Physics and build complex devices using magic and technology. This skill can only be taken after 15th level. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Citadel: Technomancers learn their craft uniquely at the Citadel. A technomancer always gets the following skills in this order: Magical Physics, Fantasy Physics, Machine Building, Advanced Magical Physics, and Technomagical Engineering. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Important note on Gnomes and Technomancy: Gnomes are not automatically technomancers! It may seem to be the contrary, but the gnomish design skills are not up to the task of designing or building the electromagical items that technomancy is based on. For a real world example, the Gnomish Fantasy Physics and Machine Building would be perfect for car engine repair, or building steam powered trains, but they would fall short if they tried to understand a solid state circuitboard, or a laser. This is where Magical Physics is used. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Important note on Technomancy and High Tech: Technomancy is not truly high technology. Technomancy is a bastardized form of high tech that melds real world Quantum Mechanics with Magic. As such, it isnt as powerful as purely high tech devices, or purely magical devices. However, these devices are more versatile than either. On worlds where either high technology or magic doesnt exist, these devices are invaluable, as a particular side effect of the mixture of magic and high tech allows these devices to work under any conditions. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Building a Technomantic device: Stage 1: What is the device for? Decide exactly what the device is supposed to do, it may be intended for more than one function, but simpler devices are easier to make. Stage 2: Planning the design. The player must come up with the basic principle of how his device will work. The basic principle is the central idea behind the machines functioning. This need not be a complete description of how it works, though some eccentric details are always permissiable. The point is that the functioning only has to sound reasonable, the details do NOT matter. Stage 3: Determining whether the design will work The DM needs to decide whether or not he will allow the device to function exactly as designed. This is basically a common sense interpretation of the Advanced Magical Physics skill. If the design works with a little imagination, then the DM should allow the design to be workable. On the other hand, it might not be able to be built! Stage 4: How difficult will this be? Now, the DM needs to figure out how easy or difficult this design will be, the tables below list modifiers that will effect the characters chance to successfully construct his design Design Complexity: Skill Modifier: Time Required: Easy -2 2d4 days Simple None 2d4 + 2 days Tricky +2 6d6 days Difficult +4 10d6 days Very Difficult +8 60+10d12 days Extenuating Circumstances: Modifier: No Advanced Magical Physics Skill Cannot design device No Meddling Box (see PC2) +2 Distractions +1 to +4 Design Complexity: To determine an inventions difficulty level, the DM needs to decide the difficulty of putting the design principle into practice. Much depends on the size of the device (a desktop computer is much more complex than a flashlight), and how radically this device will effect his campaign (a computer may be a bit more unbalancing!) To design something large and powerful is more time consuming than designing something smaller or more conventional. The time required is the time that the technomage must spend designing his project. He/she doesnt have to spend every waking hour working, but he/she cannot spend much time doing anything else, and will need a quiet place to do work. Stage 5: Does it work? Having determined the total modifier on the roll, the DM now rolls a secret Wisdom ability check, applying the total modifiers. Importantly, the Mage always assumes his device is sound, only the DM knows. Dont Tell the Player! Stage 6: Building the device While the Magical Physics skill is important in designing the device, the Magical Engineering skill is important to actually constructing the device. While the designer does not have to be the chief builder, it is important that the designer be involved with its construction. All technomantic devices require a specific set of parts and magical paraphernalia, just like constructing a magical device. The parts used in the construction of the device are usually made specifically for the device itself. Spare parts from elsewhere can be used with a penalty. The DM should determine how many parts and magical items are needed for the device. Again the DM must decide how the project it to be constructed. First consider the scale of the project. If it involves a large scale machine, or an extremely intricate device, the DM may want to break the construction down into stages, each of which requires a separate ability check. Apply these modifiers, as appropriate, to each Intelligence check: +6 if the chief builder doesnt have Magical Engineering - -1 for each Magical Engineering skill above the basic +2 if the chief builder is not the designer - -1 if the designer can build the machine on his own. Half the design complexity modifier +3 if this is a rush job +3 if off-the-shelf parts are used. - -1 if the off-the-shelf parts are Blackmoorian (or similar) There does not have to be one chief builder, a group can separate into teams, each with its own chief builder. Doing this reduces the total construction time to its normal value. However, if this approach is used, roll a wisdom check of the chief builder after each part is completed to see if it is compatible with the other parts, failure means the team has to start again (with a 2 cumulative modifier to roll). Stage 7: How long will it take? The time required is also important. Each stage in constructing the device takes 20 + 2d20 working days as a base figure. One mage working for one day is a working day, 10 mages working for 1 day is 10 working days. Add 5 days for every part that needs to be made. The DM should adjust the time accordingly if there are some rare components required. Stage 8: What is this going to cost? The matter of cost is paramount to the completion of the task. Building at each stage requires a lot of raw materials, cost of use of laboratories and studios. Some designs will require hard-to-get components which will cost the builder in time or cash. Stage 9: Why didnt it work? If the result is failure, then the builders can give it another shot. Even if the second result is success, the design itself may be flawed. The DM can reveal this fact when the device is first used, or by then and there revealing the secret roll he/she made back in step five Back to the drawing board (stage 2!) - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Restricting Technomancy: Technomancy is powerful, and can be a game breaker if overused. The DM should rule on certain restrictions on a characters device, such as a massive power drain requiring expensive recharges, or a percent chance that the device could break down under stress. The DM shouldnt place too many restrictions, but DMs should be aware that machines should not dominate a campaign. What happened to Blackmoorian Tech? This is a topic of hot debate on the Mystara Mailing List and the Mystara Message Board, with many sides to the same issue. The whole story is up to the DM, but here are a few ideas: When the Nucleus of the Spheres (NoS) was transformed by the Old One, it brought about a powerful corruption: normal physics no longer worked in Mystara-Space. Thus, Blackmoorian, or any technological device slowly corrupts to uselesness, repairable only by technomancy. Technology has never gone away, only wear and tear over thousands of years causes it to break down. The World Shield of Mystara causes a corruption or some other restrictive effect The Immortals cast a anti-high technology spell on Mystara after Blackmoor blew up, to prevent the repair of artifacts without using magic. This spell would prevent another Blackmoor from destroying the world. - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:30:11 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Skin Trade I also said that I was interested...I think.....Can you email it to us as a whole file when you are done to.....:) Nurvel *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:36:03 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about Thyatis and Karameikos In a message dated 2/5/99 1:01:20 PM Central Standard Time, BoBoII@aol.com writes: << this might br in Bruce's World in Flames timeline. Do you have that? >> No...i think it may have been Jenn that mentioned something about it.....but it could have be in reference to something else.......The topic of conversation was The school of Magecraft in Karameikos......something about it being closed for a while Where can i get Bruce's World in Flames....and what is the basic premise behind it Thanks Nurvel *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 07:44:40 +1100 From: stan Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Cultural Weapon & Armor >Another question. What do you think are the cultural weapons & armors of the >known world? Thrombin recently posted such a list on the Mystara Message Boards. What are the Mystara Message Boards I hear you ask. A place hosted by TSR which discusses Mystara. You can reach it from the web directly at http://tsronline.wizards.com:80/mb/index.html or with a newsgroup reader by pointing your newsgroup server to TSROnline.com and accessing the TSR.OOP.Mystara newsgroup. Any way back to your question. The file, which I don't think is active on the message boards still, is available on my homepage at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/weapcult.html stan http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 20:50:04 -0000 From: "Edward Phillips" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Ixion Vs Mystra This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01BE5149.1B989700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey Why Valerias? Why just use Barrimoor, if level limits are taken out = of AD&D this guy must be pushing 40th Level, then it's bye bye = Elminster. I agree though WOTL is a pile of crock. - ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01BE5149.1B989700 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hey Why Valerias? Why just use = Barrimoor, if=20 level limits are taken out of AD&D this guy must be pushing 40th = Level, then=20 it's bye bye Elminster.
 
I agree though WOTL is a pile of=20 crock.
- ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01BE5149.1B989700-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 20:53:18 -0000 From: "Edward Phillips" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's new marketing strategy Does redeveloping Ochalea & the enitre Thyatian/Alphatian Milirtary count? PS: cool maps by the way, although any more on the cities on them? - -----Original Message----- From: Geoff Gander To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM Date: 05 February 1999 19:48 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's new marketing strategy >Jonathan wrote: > >>Firstly - re: Ethan's mail - ditto. > >Same here! Mystara could easily, IMO, have been a flagship line, if only >they'd put the work into it. > >>Secondly, the Mystara setting seems definitely to be off life support and >>it aint never gonna go back on... >>Anyone interested in serious netpublishing of professional quality stuff >>for a world that is somewhat identical [ :) ] to everyone's favourite KW? > >Well, there's certainly a lot of that going on among MMLers! Mayhap it's >time to repost that project list I submitted a couple of weeks ago, in >which all of the projects that I know of are discussed? > >Also, is anyone out there working on any solo projects that they might >wish to share? > >Geoff > >-- >Geoff Gander, BA 97 >Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon >Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog >au998@freenet.carleton.ca >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 12:58:46 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's new marketing strategy Geoff wrote: >Also, is anyone out there working on any solo projects that they might >wish to share? Well, as anyone who knows me will concur, I tend to have fifty or sixty things on my "back-burners," but they will all *eventually* see the light of day! School and life (alas, the responsibilities of RL;) ensure that I only work on these a little at a time, but my current projects of general interest (i.e., not for MC only) are, in order of scheduled completion (hope, hope!;-) are 1.) Update and Expansion of my Elven Clans of Mystara, including a timeline spanning pre-Evergrun to the present, and "new" elves! 2.) Gazetteer of Great Huyule (aka Hule) 3.) The Holy City of Lhamsa (Krondahar/Glantri) 4.) More on Darine Culture 5.) Belcadiz Culture 6.) Makai Culture I'm working hardest on the elves right now, so expect that one to be done sometime in the spring; the others will probably come later in the year, hopefully summer, if I can take a break from classes. ;-) Jenn ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #53 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Saturday, February 6 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 054 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Radiance Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's new marketing strategy [MYSTARA] - Re: More Stuff: Rules for Technomantic devices [MYSTARA] - Mystaran adventures (was Re: Skin Trade) [MYSTARA] - Ylaruam Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE - multiverse Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about Ilsundal! Re: [MYSTARA] - Tomb of horrors [MYSTARA] - WOTL problems was MYSTARA GRIMOIRE - multiverse Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about Thyatis and Karameikos Re: [MYSTARA] - net gains / net prophets Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE - multiverse Re: [MYSTARA] - Tomb of horrors Re: [MYSTARA] - Tomb of horrors Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about Ilsundal! Re: [MYSTARA] - Tomb of horrors [MYSTARA] - Questions about the Moons Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals [MYSTARA] - Where are the following locations? Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions about the Moons [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals [MYSTARA] - Questions on Alphatia and Thyatis [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves and Spiders (was Penhaligion) Re: [MYSTARA] - Cultural Weapon & Armor Re: [MYSTARA] - Radiance Re: [MYSTARA] - WotI ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 20:57:51 -0000 From: "Edward Phillips" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Radiance Can somebody PLEASE send me the rules on using the radiance from GAZ 3???? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:08:14 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's new marketing strategy > Also, is anyone out there working on any solo projects that they might > wish to share? > Well, once I get done with certain obligations I hope to get back to detailing my "alternat Thyatis." Next project will probably be fleshing out the city description. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 08:16:03 +1100 From: stan Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: More Stuff: Rules for Technomantic devices >Here we go. If anyone has any problems/ideas, give me a mail! > >(I hope Stan is getting these :) Yeah, you might not have seen me on the Davania group or anything for quite a while, but I'm still alive. stan http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 08:17:45 +1100 From: stan Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran adventures (was Re: Skin Trade) People have been asking about Mystaran adventures. There is a web site out there which actually has quite a few of them. The site is at http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8306/ stan http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:28:34 -0800 From: "Harvey, Michael" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Ylaruam I recently obtained the Ylaruam gazetteer. While a lot of people mentioned they didn't like this one too much, I do. I remember running a game in the Known World many years ago, when the only info I had was on the Isle of Dread. The characters entered Ylaruam from the east and I described it as endless sand dunes, and attacked them with a giant "sand worm" (actually a purple worm). So I was pleasantly surprised in the gazetteer to discover that giant worms do officially exist beneath the desert sands... :-) Anyway, I have a question. I've seen it mentioned on this list that clerics are not welcome in Glantri, and wizards are not welcome in Ylaruam. But after reading the gazetter I don't see any evidence of this. It does mention that Glantrians are disliked in Ylaruam, and that some forms of magic (like fire magic) are considered Black Magic and illegal. But the gazetteer mentions Ylari sorcerers, magical adventures, and I could find no evidence that magic users were prohibited. Is this ban on magic-users a recent development, perhaps from WotI? Or am I just confused? Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 16:49:32 -0500 From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE >No no no... ORIGINAL wizards, with ORIGINAL spells players or DMs have >come up with. Then other people can use the shared character to group >similar theme spells, eg the Fire spells go to Candela the Flaemish >Arconologist, etc. > Well, there's always my good friend Saren of Mirros, who specializes in defensive magic (Abjuration, for those who prefer AD&D). He is somewhat of a pacifist, and prefers non-violent solutions to problems. Unfortunately, when dealing with wizards, violence is sometimes the first resort, and so one must protect oneself. Saren devised a few protective spells to enhance his chances of remaining alive in these situations. Here's one of his early efforts, and one he teaches to all his apprentices. Saren's Magic Resistance (Abjuration) Level: 1 Range: Touch (Components: V,S) Duration: 5 rounds/level (Casting Time: 2) Area of Effect: Creature touched (Saving Throw: None) The recipient of this spell receives a +2 bonus to all saving throws vs. magical effects for the duration of the spell. This includes spells, wands, rods, staves, and saving throws vs. petrification or polymorph that result from a spell or magical effect, but not from a creature's special ability (such as a medusa's gaze or a cockatrice's touch). Dragon breath is not affected, but spells cast by dragons are. Magical weapons are not affected, and do their normal damage. Saren has a few other spells tucked away in his tomes of lore, and I'll try to convince him to share them with the rest of us. (He recently told me he's not Elminster, and I'm not Ed Greenwood, but I pointed out that Mystara is much more interesting than the Realms anyway. So we are making progress.) Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 17:23:26 -0500 From: Jerry Hovenanian Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE - multiverse "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" wrote: > > -one of the best so far is a > > >campaign with no WotI! a classic. > > > > > It also gets my vote as the `official` line in case of resurection. > > oh yes indeed. WotI is a pus-marbled fart of decadence. I beg to disagree....it was one of the best campaigns i have ever run. ANY DM worth half his salt can turn an adventure that is somewhat lacking into greatness. - -- Jerry Hovenanian clumsydwarf@hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 23:49:24 +0200 From: "Solmyr of the Azure Star" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about Ilsundal! >>Does anybody know, who the sponsor of Ilsundal was! > >I would imagine Ordana, as he was her follower, and led the "returnist" >movement in a back-to-nature migration designed to re-acquaint them with >her ways of old. > Actually it can't be Ordana, since she's from Time and Ilsundal is from Energy. IMC Ilsundal's sponsor was Ixion (who seems to have sponsored a very large part of the Energy Immortals... no wonder he's so stuck-up :) ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star aka Azure Star Dragon solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:06:44 -0500 From: "Brian K Deuberry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tomb of horrors >>Yep, I'm playing Return to the Tomb of Horrors soon, and its reputed to >be a >>character killer > >I played the original Tomb of Horrors a few dozen times, and never been >able to get through it. >Recently Return to The Tomb was given to a friend of mine of the DMly >persuasion and i was wondering if anyone who has played them both would >compare them. I also wondered if anyone made it through the original. >If noone knows what I'm talking about feel free to ignore me. > >Giggles > Just last session they(players) made it to the Hall of Columns and after playing with the crown and scepter decided to bale on the mission. I was surprised to say the least. They never quit a mission like that before. The mutual consensus was "this is too damn tough". Sadly, they'd rather be swing there swords and casting there spells instead of thinking. I believe for them there was just too much thinking and not enough action. I didn't really hold it against them since one miss-step was often fatal. So I guess I will not be getting Return to the Tome of Horrors any time soon. Unless someone on this list tells me that it's worth it and my players would finish it(based on the above info). BK *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:19:27 -0500 From: "Brian K Deuberry" Subject: [MYSTARA] - WOTL problems was MYSTARA GRIMOIRE - multiverse >> -one of the best so far is a >> >campaign with no WotI! a classic. >> > >> It also gets my vote as the `official` line in case of resurection. > >oh yes indeed. WotI is a pus-marbled fart of decadence. > Our current campaign is using (very loosely) Wotl time line. Beyond some modifications it seems to be working out fine. They[the campaign] are currently at the end of 1004 and the war is about to start. I'm curious as to the negative responses I've seen on this list to WOTL. What's the deal? It is very apparent that all of the TSR settings have written in a world changing event(Time of Troubles, Grayhawk Wars, WOTL, etc..) While I haven't read GH wars, WOTL seems like a interesting story. If I had some of the shared knowledge, from this list, as to the problems with WOTL I could still stop the events before the war breaks out. Any comments into this is very appreciated. Thanks in advance, BK *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 19:41:03 EST From: BoBoII@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about Thyatis and Karameikos In a message dated 2/5/99 4:37:59 PM, Nurvel@aol.com writes: << Where can i get Bruce's World in Flames....and what is the basic premise behind it >> I'd have to look that up. Anyone else know? It is basically the multi-year story of a humanoid invasion of Eastern Brun. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 12:16:22 +1100 (EST) From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - net gains / net prophets I am typing up the Mystara Grimoire thingy as we speak. Eleven non-list members have submitted stuff via another link, I have suggested to all of them to join the list and also hassle WotC about Mystara being canned. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 12:27:41 +1100 (EST) From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE - multiverse > > oh yes indeed. WotI is a pus-marbled fart of decadence. > > I beg to disagree....it was one of the best campaigns i have ever run. ANY > DM worth half his salt can turn an adventure that is somewhat lacking into > greatness. > -- > Jerry Hovenanian clumsydwarf@hotmail.com *IMNSHO* It's not the ability of a DM to salvage stuff or run things to make them great at issue, it's the huge swerves in direction Mystara started taking post-WotI. For example, earlier "canon" sources clearly acknowledge the continuation of an Alfheim for at least 188 years, an Alphatia that lasts that long or more, no previous mention was made of the Nucleus in the form that it took in WotI, etc.etc. Mainly, WotI cut the heart out of a great setting with a gratuitous change. The sort of stuff that is normally a throwaway paragraph at the end of a game book became the dead-set serious "givens" for Mystara. And if you have to edit two-thirds of everything you buy for a setting after a certain point, why then it's easier just to haunt the secondhand bookshops and timewarped game shops and piece together a more logical AC 1010 - 1016 or whatever and play in that. Some of us just felt a bit betrayed and suspected that WotI was more about wrecking the usefulness of earlier projects and forcing people to buy updated products than about adding to the game continuum. *** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 02:24:56 +0100 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?=" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tomb of horrors Well, I played the original Tomb of Horrors and survived (more or less)! I must say that we were using the 2nd Edition AD&D rules and our party was quite high-level (14th). The trick of finishing off Acererak was a good deal of informative magic, both before and during the ordeals through the Tomb: 1. Quite a few Legend Lore and Contact Other Plane spells brought about info (the clues provided in the intro chapter). 2. Augury and Divination spells were useful in some "instant death" tricks in the Tomb (most times, doom is associated to a very distinctive feature, like a colour -the green devil face, the scepre tips in the throne room-, the kind of "vision" which those simple spells provide). 3. My PC was a Necromancer and some of his speciality spells and proficiencies (we used the Complete necromancer's handbook) are a valious asset. A 14th Lvl Necromancer with a good time of library and spirit lore research can find a lot of info about a demi-lich. Know thine enemies ;-) Nevertheless, the trek was deadly. Our team was composed of: 1. One Human Paladin 2. One Elf Fighter/Mage/Thief 3. One Dwarf Fighter 4. One Human Fighter 5. One Human Cleric 6. One Human Necromancer (me) Only my character and the cleric survived. The elf had his soul drained but we could reincarnate him into the body of the human fighter (quite a shock), who had been killed by the paladin, who had his gender and alignment changed at the portal in the chapel. I hated that paladin-guy (in the campaign we were bitter rivals) and, seeing him turned a dangerous enemy, put him out with a quick spell.The dwarf was drained, too, but I did not have any Reincarnate left. He is still in the gem, I suppose. Facing Acererak, we knew quite well of his draining abilities. The cleric had all the damaging spells prepared, the elf a powerful magical sword salvaged from the dead fighter, the dwarf had a +5 weapon, too. I animated a couple of skeletons and we gave them the magical weapons from the other dead characters (skeletons do not have souls to be drained!). I could cast Forget to make the skull sink without draining, but I used another defensive strategy: casting a Limited Wish with the following wording: "Let my soul be unable to depart my body till the sun rises" (it was night). My DM accepted the Wish (it does not ask for anything outrageous -I did not ask for immunity to death, only for my soul remaining in my body- and it has a one-day time limit), and, though I aged and lost some STR, it was worth the price. Acererak was finally vanquished with spells and weapons. Tomb of Horrors is a PC killer, but mostly if PCs are not used to planifying their quests beforehand and, as many players do, forfeit the benefits of information and miscellaneous spells in favour of killer magic (which, in the Tomb, is nearly useless; all monsters can be destroyed or avoided using weapns only; excepting for the animated weapons, they are quite weak for 10-14th level PCs). I have found other modules more umbalanced that S1: a whole party perished playing Q1, Queen of the Demonweb Pits, and it was due just to the great power of some enemies. U3 is quite nearly impossible for characters of level 3-5, too. Just peering into the wrong corridor at the Sahuagin fortress and it's just a desperate run (swim) till the party is trapped and exterminated by a whole army of sea-devils. BTW, have you played S1 in Mystara? Our Dm placed the Tomb in Glantri (at the Alps), as well as White Plume Mountain and Iggwyl's Tomb (from S4) and they were linked to form a mini-campaign of artifact-hunting. Andrés *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 12:40:36 +1100 (EST) From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tomb of horrors > > BTW, have you played S1 in Mystara? Our Dm placed the Tomb in Glantri (at > the Alps), as well as White Plume Mountain and Iggwyl's Tomb (from S4) and > they were linked to form a mini-campaign of artifact-hunting. > > Andrés The use of non-Mystaran modules in Mystara is another interesting spin - anyone got any suggested locations for other modules / settings ? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 21:18:55 -0500 From: Elise Pigeon Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about Ilsundal! According to WotI, Ilsundal's sponsor is indeed Ixion. Solmyr of the Azure Star a écrit: > >>Does anybody know, who the sponsor of Ilsundal was! > > > >I would imagine Ordana, as he was her follower, and led the "returnist" > >movement in a back-to-nature migration designed to re-acquaint them with > >her ways of old. > > > Actually it can't be Ordana, since she's from Time and Ilsundal is from Energy. IMC Ilsundal's sponsor was Ixion (who seems to have sponsored a very large part of the Energy Immortals... no wonder he's so stuck-up :) > > ****************** > Aleksei Andrievski > aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star > aka Azure Star Dragon > solmyr@kolumbus.fi > http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 21:33:38 EST From: EzJ25@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tomb of horrors In a message dated 2/5/99 6:32:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, bkis1@in- motion.net writes: << So I guess I will not be getting Return to the Tome of Horrors any time soon. Unless someone on this list tells me that it's worth it and my players would finish it(based on the above info). >> It has alot of stuff besides thinking. Lotys of fighting undead and giants in the beginning, going through the original Tomb is required though, but by that point you're only half way through the story! It was a great buy for my group, and I recommend it if your players can think as well as sword and spellsling! J *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 22:51:53 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Questions about the Moons Where there actual publications on stuff about the moons of Mystara? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 23:33:59 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals Another interesting thought, since somebody mentioned Ilsundal's relative inaction on Alfheim's behalf: Maybe he was otherwise occupied in transferring a portion of the elven lands and population to the Hollow World? After all, Alphatia wasn't the only culture to vanish off the face of Mystara, as a consequence of WotI! Alfheim had a pretty unique culture, ecology, and environment of its own -- more than one, if you count the Good Kingdom as a second "culture" that overlapped it -- and would certainly get Ordana's vote for including it in the HW setting ... possibly on one of those three continents that the canon material tells us nothing about. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 00:11:56 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Where are the following locations? Surra-Man-Raa and Kirkuk...i found some maps but dont know where they are *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 00:24:39 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions about the Moons >Where there actual publications on stuff about the moons of Mystara? A small amount of material was published about Patera, the invisible moon, in the "Voyage of the Princess Ark" series. This moon was later expanded upon a bit, in the "Champions of Mystara" boxed set, and one of its nations - -- Myoshima, the M-Japanese nation of rakastas -- is referenced in the later Almanacs. Matera, the visible moon, is briefly described in several products as being virtually identical to our own (airless, crater-marked, etc). In the "Wrath of the Immortals" boxed set, there's also a description of Pandius - -- the Immortals' secret city -- which is located in an extraplanar pocket that's accessible from Matera's lifeless surface. Since last summer, I've been filling Matera's interior with my own brainstorm: the Hollow Moon. (It's a lot like the Hollow World, but for nocturnal races/species.) Others have done some "non-canon" writing about Myoshima and other nations on Patera. Both moons' "unofficial" material is all available on Shawn Stanley's Website. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 20:42:39 +1100 (EST) From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" Subject: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE first version of Mystara Grimoire is finished. I have made it a .RTF file, archived as a ZiP. I will upload a text version too. I didn't attach the zip file as not everyone can use zip or get that sort of attachment. If allowed I might attach the text file version to a message... Then again, maybe not. There are lots of spells from people's campaigns, but not so many biographies of name-level Wizards... please contribute! The more the merrier, as the Hulean slavers say... :) Also, there are many more Mystaran players out there! So I just keep telling them to join the list, and/or hassle TSR (politely) to restore Mystara... - -Jonathan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 20:44:45 +1100 (EST) From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals Re: Alfheim, if at some point in the not-too-distant future of Mystara Alfheim is restored, the current brief interlude of SE conquest would be no more than a bit of seasoning for the realm rather than a permanent fatal wipeout. Maybe the lack of a HW Alfheim is evidence that the SE will be righteously kicked out... or maybe it is symptomatic of a poorly thought out bit of continuity... :) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 05:10:26 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Questions on Alphatia and Thyatis How would Thyatians treat Alphatians in their lands during the time of the Gazeteers, and vise versa? I'm getting ready to start a campaign and i need to know these things. It is going to be based in The Isle of Dawn. i know that these people sort of live together but I dont know how they would act towards each other, maybe like Thyatians and Traladarans? Thank you very much...to everyone that helps Nurvel *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 21:21:27 +1100 (EST) From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" Subject: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE Grimoire now has priest spells - so contribute them too! I have found one website so far to put it on. :) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 05:28:28 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves and Spiders (was Penhaligion) In a message dated 1999-02-04 12:50:44 Eastern Standard Time, ferro@Princeton.EDU writes: > ObMystara: Do "our" Neutral Shadow Elves have arachnid pets like the > Oerth/Toril Dark Elves? No. However, many of them do ride skinwings (basically giant pterodactyls). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 05:28:21 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Cultural Weapon & Armor In a message dated 1999-02-05 11:20:41 Eastern Standard Time, Lostboy@t- online.de writes: > Hello everyone! > > In the HW-set there are rules for cultural weapons & armors. I dislike the > idea that a charakter gains cultural bonuses (like the antalian first level > Fighter/ Thief or mage gets climb sheer surfaces at 77%) only if he wears > this kind of armor or is using his cultural weapons. Okay, if a character > learns the use of other weapons of armors in his carrear, why not? The cultural weapons/armor and special compensations are part of a "package deal" for adhering to a specific cultural mindset. If the character gains proficiency with a non-cultural weapon, then he has broken that mindset and thus loses the special compensation. Note that cultures with virtually unlimited armor and weapons (Merry Pirates and most non-humans) get no special compensations. > Another question. What do you think are the cultural weapons & armors of the > known world? > What could the Special Compensations of the nations in the known world be? Since most Known World nations are at the pinnacle of Mystaran technology and include the best armor and weapons as part of the "culture", they should receive no special compensations. If they were transported to the Hollow World, their cultural weapons and armor should include all of the weapons and armor types that typical D&D adventurers are likely to want to use -- only the most eccentric combat gear should be disallowed. Of all of the Known World nations, only the Atruaghin Clans are limited enough in technology to warrant any sort of special compensation -- and they might probably share the special compensation of the Oltecs if you cannot think of anything appropriate for each clan. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 12:57:04 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Radiance > Can somebody PLEASE send me the rules on using the radiance from GAZ 3???? There are about six pages of Radiance, so I have no time to type them, but the important thing is that the Radiance can only be used within the Principalities (something like that, anyway), so you'll need the Gaz anyway. If you have the Shadow Elves' Gazetteer (does the net Gazetteer include this?), there are described the most of the Radiance-spells, as the Shadow elves also use it. - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 13:19:23 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - WotI > >oh yes indeed. WotI is a pus-marbled fart of decadence. > Our current campaign is using (very loosely) Wotl time line. Beyond some > modifications it seems to be working out fine. They[the campaign] are > currently at the end of 1004 and the war is about to start. MC is in the end of 1003. One of the characters just won the barony of Ylourgne, which was created IMC before Caurenze is destroyed, to allow a greater mobility to the Grand Army, as the individual nobles are given the responsibility to guard the borders. About the WotI. Everyone who has seen Babylon-5 knows why the series is so much (IMO!) better than all the Star Treks together. It is the element of l o n g change and evolving plotline -- in the Trek (or Donald Duck) the every episode begins from nothing and ends to nothing. Same goes to many RPG campaigns in 'official' worlds. People are afraid to use their imagination by plunging Middle-Earth or Krynn into another global series of events -- a war, decline of magic, anything. WotI _OFFERS_A_CHANCE_ to do just that in Mystara, giving updated maps to reflect the war, updated info... But no-one *has* to use WotI. The PWA:s are completely adaptable into 1010 with no WotI. You just have to add the politics section for Alfatian Empire. Gazes offer all the needed info to play in the Known World (except in Sind and Hule), you don't *need* anything else. De facto, by Glantri was run for two years without any other Gazes. Use your IMAGINATION. Take the freedom to adapt settings and books and modules. Take what you like and don't use anything else. Oh, btw, WotI *is* crap what comes to Rheddrian-related missions. Too easy, too short, too siplified. *DOH* Fun thing in the WotI is that there is no 'good guys' or the 'bad guys' (Well, BoS, maybe). And if the PC:s ever figure out what the fuck is going on, they can be freely awarded 100000xp:s for that alone. - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #54 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Saturday, February 6 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 055 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tomb of horrors [Spoilers] [MYSTARA] - Non Mystaran Adventures in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Necromancers Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's new marketing strategy Re: [MYSTARA] - WotI Re: [MYSTARA] - Penhaligion Re: RED CURSE Was: Re: [MYSTARA] - Campaign poll Re: [MYSTARA] - Penhaligion Re: [MYSTARA] - Path of Conqueror Re: [MYSTARA] - Tomb of horrors Re: RED CURSE Was: Re: [MYSTARA] - Campaign poll Re: Death by Dragon was Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's new marketing strategy Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about Thyatis and Karameikos Re: [MYSTARA] - Where are the following locations? Re: [MYSTARA] - Tomb of horrors [Spoilers] Re: [MYSTARA] - Tomb of horrors Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about Ilsundal! Re: RED CURSE Was: Re: [MYSTARA] - Campaign poll Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE - multiverse Re: [MYSTARA] - Penhaligion Re: [MYSTARA] - WOTL problems was MYSTARA GRIMOIRE - multiverse Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE - multiverse Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Where are the following locations? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 13:21:53 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tomb of horrors [Spoilers] NO SPOILERS IN THIS POSTING. > I played the original Tomb of Horrors a few dozen times, and never been > able to get through it. What's the plotline? And what makes it so difficult -- instant kills or 3d6 beholders standing behind every corner? (Add the SPOILER-alert before your posts, if some people here will be on the player-side...) - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 11:22:27 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Non Mystaran Adventures in Mystara >The use of non-Mystaran modules in Mystara is another interesting spin - >anyone got any suggested locations for other modules / settings ? I ran the Wild Elves adventure (a Krynn set adventure) as a one off, just as the Shadow Elves were taking over Alfheim. Basically I substituted the Silvanesti for the Shadow Elves, the Kagonesti for a fraction of Clan Grunalf, and the drow for Atzanteotl worshipping shadow elves. (For those who dont know, in the adventure revolves around some Kagonesti who find a portal to a demiplane (D&D Outer Plane?) and attempt to flee the Silvanesti by moving there. Sadly, there is some drow deviousness going on there...) Incidentally, that reminds me of some cool Atzanteotl priest spells I made up. I was impressed by the Sticks to Flying Vipers and Atzanteotls Hand spells detailed in the HW adventure involving the Azca (cant remember the name, but I think its HW1). I'll root around and see if I can find them. Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 11:25:05 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Necromancers Excellent, someone who using the Necromancer book :) I played a necromancer once :) They suck using just the Players Handbook so badly compared to other mages - kindof a let down for the legendary Necromancer :) (One of my PCs has a Wendarian domain on the Boldavian border as a result of the Saga of the Shadow Lord. I was planning on poring over the Necromancer book to put the fear of the Immortals into that PC :) Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 06:28:15 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's new marketing strategy In a message dated 1999-02-04 15:58:30 Eastern Standard Time, Vanquer@email.msn.com writes: > For example most of us would agree (I think) that Ylaruam is rather > Arabic in nature but putting something like Al-Qadim in Ylaruam would just > be somehow wrong. It would do neither Al-Qadim nor Ylaruam justice. I feel > wholly that Al-Qadim could have been worked into GH with no problem though. Of course, a lot of the Al-Qadim material could be adapted to Ylaruam with very little difficulty -- you just have to be sure and account for the differences, such as Ylaruam's intolerance of certain races and classes that would be accepted in Zakhara. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 04:02:36 -0800 (PST) From: David Kronhamn Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - WotI - ---Markus Olavi Montola wrote: > > > About the WotI. Everyone who has seen Babylon-5 knows why the series is > so much (IMO!) better than all the Star Treks together. It is the element > of l o n g change and evolving plotline -- in the Trek (or Donald Duck) > the every episode begins from nothing and ends to nothing. Same goes to > many RPG campaigns in 'official' worlds. People are afraid to use their > imagination by plunging Middle-Earth or Krynn into another global series > of events -- a war, decline of magic, anything. > > WotI _OFFERS_A_CHANCE_ to do just that in Mystara, giving updated maps to > reflect the war, updated info... But no-one *has* to use WotI. The PWA:s > are completely adaptable into 1010 with no WotI. You just have to add the > politics section for Alfatian Empire. I can only say that I couldn't agree more. The WotI plotline shouldn't be compared to a normal adventure campaign, but works best as a background story that once in a while affects the PCs' lives while they go about having all sorts of other unrelated adventures. And as was pointed out, of course you only include the parts you like to happen IYC. (I also agree about B5 beating ST by a mile :) Just my 2 coppers David _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 07:10:11 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Penhaligion > In a message dated 2/4/99 10:43:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, bkis1@in- > motion.net writes: > > << It's funny. When my players first encountered the Shadow Elves, they > kept referring to them as Drow. I didn't correct then nor did I do anything > that would make them out to be Drow(beyond them getting attacked). But there > encounter was brief. Somewhere down the road they'll get a better idea > that them boys aren't Drow. > > I seem to recall the mention of spiders being used as beasts of burden but > it's been awhile since I read the GAZ on them. > >> Here is a case where you should definitely correct the misunderstanding, especially if the player characters are native to Mystara and have never been anywhere else -- they should never have heard of drow at all! However, the stories that surface dwellers on Mystara tell about shadow elves are probably not all that different from accounts of the drow, so it might not be a bad thing if the players think you are trying to impress a mere name change on them. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 21:52:44 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: RED CURSE Was: Re: [MYSTARA] - Campaign poll At 17.04 31/01/99 +1100, Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA wrote: > >The Red Curse is a tad silly, as it restricts an area of the world >unreasonably, appears out of nowhere, or out of a belated box set anyways, >and is little more than a way of giving characters defects and minor >superpowers. Maybe I'm a bit late, probbaly someone has already answered you about this. Anyway, teh red curse does not appear out of nowhere, it was first introduced in D&D format by Bruce Heard in his Princess Ark column in Dragon Magazine. Then it was later adapted to AD&D. I like the D&D version best though. >a) Savage Coast adds a bit more map to the world but the baronies and red >curse as presented aren't too interesting or playable > - Not to say that having settlement there and interation > with the rest of the world wasn't gonna be fun Why that? I would like to set a campaign in the Savage Coast, especially in the western area were there're few humans. > >b) why didn't Hule just erase the baronies and annexe the coast > - At least this ties it in with the KW etc. Hule tried to conquer the baronies during WotI, but didn't manage to. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@gdr.net Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 22:23:06 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Penhaligion At 07.57 05/02/99 EST, Arminath@aol.com wrote: >Spiders are NOT a favored pet of the Shadow Elves. Skinwings and Rockhome >Lizards are the most common of the beasts of burden in their underground home. Sorry to correct you, but the Shadow Elves' most common beast of burden are skinwings and giany slugs. Rockhome Lizards are used only in Rockhome AFAIK. Anyway SE keep a breed of spiders, teh shroud spiders, in the fungal forests near Losetrel because of their fine silk. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com brizio@gdr.net DM in City Of The Stars - Mystaran Almanac Assistant Student of Aerospace Enginnering - ICQ #1688817 Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 22:35:19 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Path of Conqueror At 23.45 02/02/99 -0500, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: >For an >Entropic-wannabe to organize ANYthing, in Entropy's name, would be as >counterproductive as a Matter-wannabe creating a 100' pillar of hard >vacuum, and would belie an aspirant's having passed the initial seven tests >of commitment to the Entropic cause. True, but you've to organize something even if you want to spread chaos. A few examples: - - you want to attack Darokin, put some cities to flames, kill many people, disrupt the KW's trade lines... To do so you've to create an army and set up a strategy and both things require organization; - - Thanatos' evil plots are not improvised on the spot, but the results of several days (months, hours... whatever) spent thinking about the best wat to spread chaos. Without proper organization you can't do anything except spreading chaos in your mind and bedroom... and that's not enough to become Immortal in the sphere of Entropy. My 2 Euros.. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@gdr.net Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 14:22:30 +0000 From: "Adam Williams" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tomb of horrors > << So I guess I will not be getting Return to the Tome of Horrors any time > soon. Unless someone on this list tells me that it's worth it and my > players would finish it(based on the above info). >> > > It has alot of stuff besides thinking. Lotys of fighting undead and giants in > the beginning, going through the original Tomb is required though, but by that > point you're only half way through the story! It was a great buy for my > group, and I recommend it if your players can think as well as sword and > spellsling! > I assume these are currently published modules? I've just come bact to 0.D.& D. Is the tomb an OD&D or AD&D modules? Is it specific to Mystara? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 01:22:26 +1100 (EST) From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" Subject: Re: RED CURSE Was: Re: [MYSTARA] - Campaign poll > >The Red Curse is a tad silly, as it restricts an area of the world > >unreasonably, appears out of nowhere, or out of a belated box set anyways, > >and is little more than a way of giving characters defects and minor > >superpowers. > > Maybe I'm a bit late, probbaly someone has already answered you about this. > Anyway, teh red curse does not appear out of nowhere, it was first > introduced in D&D format by Bruce Heard in his Princess Ark column in > Dragon Magazine. > Then it was later adapted to AD&D. I like the D&D version best though. The Red Curse may not appear out of nowhere, but it does appear out of a David Eddings book. > >a) Savage Coast adds a bit more map to the world but the baronies and red > >curse as presented aren't too interesting or playable > > - Not to say that having settlement there and interation > > with the rest of the world wasn't gonna be fun > > Why that? > I would like to set a campaign in the Savage Coast, especially in the > western area were there're few humans. Other than the mindboggling nonhuman race lack of continuity with anything else and the "sealed off by Cinnabryl" routine, the Savage Coast doesn't add that much really. It's just a relatively new page to add to rather than the more crowded Known World, which is presumably why it was added in the way that it was. Unfortunately it suffers from the "it's further away from where you started so it's like an alien planet" syndrome - wouldn't the next bit of the world be rather like the last bit of the world if it is physicaly contiguous with it ? Davania is a much more likely genuine "Savage Coast". I am surprised the Savage Coast wasn't called Draeh - after all we already have a Yavdlom..! :) > > > >b) why didn't Hule just erase the baronies and annexe the coast > > - At least this ties it in with the KW etc. > > Hule tried to conquer the baronies during WotI, but didn't manage to. Would-be world emperor versus vicious jungle savages... Clerical superpower versus colonists... Not quite akin to Aston Villa v. Wolves, but close. BUT_BUT_BUT the Savage Coast gets the "came out as a boxed set" bonus on its War Machine roll... so, factoring that in on top of the "Bruce Heard wrote it in Dragon" +50 modifier... yeah I can see how Hule would lose... the first round anyway. :) - -Jonathan "Devil's Advocate"* Nolan * = without the 's Advocate" ??? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 06:42:09 PST From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: Death by Dragon was Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara ><< They were warned! Their NPC allies told them that it was a death wish to > try. The NPC party members all said NO! The job was to rescue some > people who`d been taken by slavers. When this proved too easy they felt > that since they were there they might as well just go and kill the > dragon. I have NO regrets about that whatsoever. Stupidity SHOULD kill. >> > >In that case, you are most definitely right. Ya didn't mention that the first >time around. ;-) Sorry! Oversight on my part. I`ll TRY not to do it again. ;P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 09:42:34 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's new marketing strategy Edward wrote: >Does redeveloping Ochalea & the enitre Thyatian/Alphatian Milirtary count? Sure! Why not post it to the list when you're ready? :) I'm sure there are some people on the MML who would be interested. >PS: cool maps by the way, although any more on the cities on them? Thanks! :) As a matter of fact, information on the cities of Cestia is almost complete - I should have this done within a week, university permitting. There is already information on the cities of the Adakkian Sound map, available on several sites. The rest are in varying stages of development. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 09:45:41 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about Thyatis and Karameikos BoBoII wrote: >I'd have to look that up. Anyone else know? It is basically the multi-year >story of a humanoid invasion of Eastern Brun. That's pretty much it, but there were also several side plots going on at the same time, and the end result was that some of the borders in the Known World were shifted around a bit. Partially, I think Bruce wrote some elements of World in Flames to address complaints on the MMB that the borders of the Known World nations were too static. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 09:49:01 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Where are the following locations? Nurvel wrote: >Surra-Man-Raa and Kirkuk...i found some maps but dont know where they are Both cities are located in Ylaruam. Surra-Man-Raa is located in northeastern Ylaruam, and Kirkuk has no definite position - the gaz presented info on it as a mini-campaign setting and suggested several possible locations for it. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 09:49:42 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tomb of horrors [Spoilers] In a message dated 2/6/99 6:24:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, mmontola@cc.hut.fi writes: << What's the plotline? And what makes it so difficult -- instant kills or 3d6 beholders standing behind every corner? >> The plot for the original Tomb was exploring the ancient tomb of the legendary lich Acererak. The Tomb is a death trap for all but the most innovative of players. It IS difficult and deadly, not giving second chances for mistakes in most cases, but intelligent players could survive the traps to get to the Vault of Acererak. The Return gives more on Acererak's background and his plans for the future. Alot of the original material is expanded upon, and traversing the original Tomb is *required*! It is a huge adventure and took my players 11 gaming sessions of about 12 hours each to get near the end before they finally died. Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 09:51:19 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tomb of horrors In a message dated 2/6/99 9:19:12 AM Eastern Standard Time, awilliam@whitemice.org writes: << I assume these are currently published modules? I've just come bact to 0.D.& D. Is the tomb an OD&D or AD&D modules? Is it specific to Mystara? >> It was published for AD&D last summer (so it is current), but with some work, we converted it to AD&D Mystara and OD&D Mystara. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 06:52:17 PST From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about Ilsundal! >Does anybody know, who the sponsor of Ilsundal was! > AQt a guess I`d have to say Ordana, the original elven Immortal, but I don`t have any books here to see if the spheres are right. BTW what do you think of the punctuation? I`m taking the Cpt. C. Ironfoundersson correspondance course, as you; may have gathered£ :P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 14:56:30 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: RED CURSE Was: Re: [MYSTARA] - Campaign poll >Would-be world emperor versus vicious jungle savages... >Clerical superpower versus colonists... >Not quite akin to Aston Villa v. Wolves, but close. >BUT_BUT_BUT the Savage Coast gets the "came out as a boxed set" bonus on >its War Machine roll... so, factoring that in on top of the "Bruce Heard >wrote it in Dragon" +50 modifier... yeah I can see how Hule would lose... >the first round anyway. Ahh, Hule sucks :) the Savage Baronies are cool :) How can they lose if they have Zorro on their side? Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 09:58:53 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals In a message dated 2/6/99 12:04:12 AM Eastern Standard Time, dornhoff@bio.umass.edu writes: << Another interesting thought, since somebody mentioned Ilsundal's relative inaction on Alfheim's behalf: Maybe he was otherwise occupied in transferring a portion of the elven lands and population to the Hollow World? >> Oh please! The Alfheimers are in no danger of losing their culture or being decimated! The Shadow Elves only moved up into the forests and didn't start a massive Alfheim Elf hunt. If those stuck up surface elves would've made some provisions and been more accomodating, this would have never have happened! As I recall, there are no less than 4 Immortal patrons of the surface elves and a slew of allies that could've warned them at any time, yet no one lifted a finger to help the Alfheimers. Maybe the Alfheimers got what they deserved? Arminath *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 07:05:57 PST From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE - multiverse > I beg to disagree....it was one of the best campaigns i have ever run. ANY >DM worth half his salt can turn an adventure that is somewhat lacking into >greatness. > Whilst there may have been some redeeming features in the adventure, The `canon` timeline is still totally crap. People who havent even read the codex can shoot aircraft carriers through the holes in it. It has all the coherency and logic of a `fill 10 pages by morning` last minute rush! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 10:07:08 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Penhaligion In a message dated 2/6/99 8:45:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, brizio@lunet.it writes: << >Spiders are NOT a favored pet of the Shadow Elves. Skinwings and Rockhome >Lizards are the most common of the beasts of burden in their underground home. Sorry to correct you, but the Shadow Elves' most common beast of burden are skinwings and giany slugs. Rockhome Lizards are used only in Rockhome AFAIK. Anyway SE keep a breed of spiders, teh shroud spiders, in the fungal forests near Losetrel because of their fine silk. >> Sorry, the rockhome lizards are a result of MC, but the spiders are just for silk, they have no other "special" purpose of the Shadow elves. Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 07:19:00 PST From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - WOTL problems was MYSTARA GRIMOIRE - multiverse >If I had some of the shared knowledge, from this list, as to the problems >with WOTL I could still stop the events before the war breaks out. > >Any comments into this is very appreciated. > Where to start! The real problem has to do with the `canon` way events happen. Everyone gets to act unopposed, even though there are supposed to be THREE major factions all doing stuff at once,not to mention any other immortal who just protects their own. The incorect use of magic, The airborne teleport of Alphatia comes to mind. The non use of magic, Alphatia decides on a landwar rather than nuking Glantri `til it glows. Nobody protects themselves, Ilsundal lets elves lose Alfheim. The meteor, the `canon` adventure ideas are for either high level party or novice IMMORTALS, They go there cleric/paladin prays to patron Immortal to stop this/Immortal spends 1PP to do so. There is no comeback from this because you aren`t allowed to directly HARM a mortal on Prime. It then goes on to say that the `canon` will be the meteor strikes. In all cases simple attention to what was actuall happened would have negated these and other occurences. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 07:24:31 PST From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE - multiverse >Some of us just felt a bit betrayed and suspected that WotI was more about >wrecking the usefulness of earlier projects and forcing people to buy >updated products than about adding to the game continuum. Here I thought it was just me who could see that the Emperor was naked! ;P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 07:31:21 PST From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals >Another interesting thought, since somebody mentioned Ilsundal's relative >inaction on Alfheim's behalf: Maybe he was otherwise occupied in >transferring a portion of the elven lands and population to the Hollow >World? Fine I`ll give you that, but Meliadin should have made that unneccesary by doing his job. However running away never did win many wars did it? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 07:34:30 PST From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Where are the following locations? >Surra-Man-Raa and Kirkuk...i found some maps but dont know where they are They`re both in Ylaraum. Surra-Man-Ra is the coastal city in Emirate of Nithia. Kirkuk IIRC is the place where you want village detailed in the Gaz. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #55 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Saturday, February 6 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 056 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Path of Conqueror Re: [MYSTARA] - Penhaligion Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about Ilsundal! Re: RED CURSE Was: Re: [MYSTARA] - Campaign poll Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE - multiverse Re: [MYSTARA] - Ylaruam Re: [MYSTARA] - Radiance Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's new marketing strategy [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's new marketing strategy [MYSTARA] - Re: Hule v. Baronies Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates Re: RED CURSE Was: Re: [MYSTARA] - Campaign poll Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Hule v. Baronies Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Radiance Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's new marketing strategy Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 11:50:16 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Path of Conqueror >Without proper organization you can't do anything except spreading chaos in >your mind and bedroom... and that's not enough to become Immortal in the >sphere of Entropy. Granted. Still, it's far more efficient to usurp control of an organization (e.g. a nation, an army, a cult) that already exists, than to build one up from scratch! That's what Atzanteotl's done with the traditional faith of the Azcans -- which was always theocratic and tyrannical, albeit in Ixion's name rather than his -- and it's more or less what the Master's done, by creating the "polyglot" empire of Hule, in that he's forced his authority upon the people of Sind and other pre-existent nations rather than carving an all-new country out of the wilderness, Norwold-style. But we're getting into purely-semantic arguments here, so I'll agree to disagree on this if you will. :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 11:56:32 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Penhaligion ><< >Spiders are NOT a favored pet of the Shadow Elves. Skinwings and Rockhome > >Lizards are the most common of the beasts of burden in their underground > home. > > Sorry to correct you, but the Shadow Elves' most common beast of burden are > skinwings and giany slugs. Rockhome Lizards are used only in Rockhome AFAIK. > Anyway SE keep a breed of spiders, teh shroud spiders, in the fungal > forests near Losetrel because of their fine silk. >> > >Sorry, the rockhome lizards are a result of MC, but the spiders are just for >silk, they have no other "special" purpose of the Shadow elves. In fact, those "domesticated" shroud spiders will eat any shadow elves who get too close! It's hardly the sort of buddy-buddy relationship seen between the drow and their arachnid pets, folks. :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 12:00:29 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals >Fine I`ll give you that, but Meliadin should have made that unneccesary >by doing his job. However running away never did win many wars did it? Mealiden's "job" is to protect Ilsundal himself. It's Ilsundal himself who was slacking, when he let Alfheim get taken over: he's the one responsible for mortal elves' welfare. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 12:04:25 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about Ilsundal! >>Does anybody know, who the sponsor of Ilsundal was! While WotI says it was Ixion, I wouldn't be surprised if Ilsundal was a "joint project" of Ordana and the Sun-Prince. Ordana is the Immortal whom he would've worshipped as a mortal, so Ilsundal and Ordana may have the same kind of protege/mentor relationship as do Thor and Odin ... their different Spheres, nonwithstanding. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 12:09:00 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: RED CURSE Was: Re: [MYSTARA] - Campaign poll > Unfortunately it suffers from the "it's further away >from where you started so it's like an alien planet" syndrome - wouldn't >the next bit of the world be rather like the last bit of the world if it >is physicaly contiguous with it ? Davania is a much more likely genuine >"Savage Coast". >snip< >Would-be world emperor versus vicious jungle savages... >Clerical superpower versus colonists... Actually, In the VotPA series, the "Savage Baronies" are called that because of their extremely bloody history (endless border skirmishes, civil unrest, military coups, etc). The pre-boxed set version of the Red Curse caused anyone born in the region to have only low-to-average Intelligence and Wisdom, and this made it almost impossible for local leaders to keep the peace, being faced with such widespread ignorance and bad judgement. :-( *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 12:21:50 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE - multiverse On Sat, 6 Feb 1999, Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA wrote: > continuation of an Alfheim for at least 188 years, an Alphatia that lasts > that long or more, no previous mention was made of the Nucleus in the form > that it took in WotI, etc.etc. Though I still wholeheartedly disagree with the sinking of Alphatia, and the whole Aengmor situation, I liked the description of the NoS, as well as the background history. And the Codex was better than the Immortals' set. Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 12:31:35 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ylaruam In a message dated 1999-02-05 16:30:52 Eastern Standard Time, michael.harvey@intel.com writes: > Is this ban on magic-users a recent development, perhaps from WotI? Or am I > just confused? No, you are not confused -- later sources such as the D&D Rules Cyclopedia contradict Gaz 2 on this point. In the D&D Rules Cyclopedia, magic-users and elves are outlawed in Ylaruam -- even though both are mentioned as living peacefully in Ylaruam in Gaz 2. My method of reconciling this change is this: I assume that the Preceptors (the more tolerant faction) were in control of Ylaruam in AC 1000, and that elves and other foreigners were welcome, and mages were viewed with suspicion but tolerated as long as they were not seen employing necromancy or fire magic. However, shortly thereafter the Kin come to power, all non- clerical magic use is outlawed, and foreigners are feared and hated. Elves, who are almost all foreign magic-users, are killed on sight from that point on. I would imagine that relations with Minrothad are strained, but trade is allowed to continue as long as any elven sailors do not leave their ships while in Ylari ports. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 12:31:39 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Radiance In a message dated 1999-02-06 05:58:51 Eastern Standard Time, mmontola@cc.hut.fi writes: > If you have the Shadow Elves' Gazetteer (does the net Gazetteer include > this?), there are described the most of the Radiance-spells, as the > Shadow elves also use it. Better than that -- the entire Shadow Elf gazetteer was uploaded for free distribution. I am not sure of the current URL, if any. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 12:31:37 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals In a message dated 1999-02-06 04:45:44 Eastern Standard Time, geckoes@ozemail.com.au writes: > Re: Alfheim, > if at some point in the not-too-distant future of Mystara > Alfheim is restored, the current brief interlude of SE conquest would be > no more than a bit of seasoning for the realm rather than a permanent > fatal wipeout. > Maybe the lack of a HW Alfheim is evidence that the SE will be righteously > kicked out... or maybe it is symptomatic of a poorly thought out bit of > continuity... :) An alternative approach involves the old Companion level _Tree of Life_ module. Be sure that this adventure is successfully completed prior to the Shadow Elf conquest of Alfheim. At that point most of the Feadiel clan returns to the Sylvan Realm. (Presumably the difficulties that the adventurers encountered with using the Rainbow Bridge are cleared up in time for it to be used to transport large numbers of first level elves.) The Shadow Elf conquest and subsequent diaspora proceed as in WotI and the PWAs. For a few years the refugees in Wendar and Karameikos plot to return home, but eventually their hopes of reconquering Alfheim fade. Meanwhile, however, the Feadiels and other elves of the Sylvan Realm gain full control over the Rainbow Bridge and are able to use it to evacuate most of the Alfheim elves as well as their Erewan cousins in Glantri to the Sylvan Realm, which has more than enough room for them. >From this point on the Known World has two types of elves -- the "mysterious strangers" from the Sylvan Realm and the assimilated refugees dispersed in small numbers throughout the region. And if you set things up so that the player characters have no power in the Sylvan Realm, then that Rainbow Bridge can become a great plot device for moving the PCs around when the DM wants to move them quickly -- but of course it is nowhere to be found the rest of the time. The Rainbow Bridge could potentially make the Sylvan Realm the most powerful nation on Mystara.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 12:31:32 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's new marketing strategy > >Secondly, the Mystara setting seems definitely to be off life support and > >it aint never gonna go back on... I think it might be more accurate to say that it has lost its "pro" status and is now in the hands of us amateurs -- sort of the reverse of what happens with Olympic athletes. Also, at the rate things are going, Bruce Heard's _Dragon_ articles about Mystara may soon be the most easily accessible material about that setting, if present trends continue. However, it would be nice if we could persuade TSR/WotC to reprint some of the "basic" Known World material.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 11:45:04 -0600 From: Tim Subject: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates What all this talk I hear about questioning canon?!? I thought that wasn't allowed here As for the problems with WotI, my suggestion would be to throw everything out except the consequences. Rewrite how the story went (lord knows it needs a rewrite) coming up with your own ideas how things happened (like the shadow elf invasion, Alphatia's sinking, etc.). It needed to be a much bigger war between the Immortals themselves and I was let down that some didn't die but then I like the death of gods and such. And the Savage Coast, I believe the red curse was first alluded to in X9 The Savage Coast. The box set expanded on some of Bruce's ideas which he expanded on from X9. Its a little larger and stronger though (I, of course, don't believe civilization exists there to any degree). Oh, another thing. Entropy is not necessarily evil or chaotic. It serves a purpose just as much as energy or matter does and can be as rigid in its laws as other spheres. Its unfortunate that almost all the 'bad' Immortals are stuck in it for some reason. Well, that's all from the heretic :) - -- Timothy R. Haney galwylin@airnet.net The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 11:46:36 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's new marketing strategy Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: > > However, it would be nice if we could persuade TSR/WotC to reprint > some of the "basic" Known World material.... They are redoing "Keep on the Borderlands" though I have bets that no mention of Mystara will be found in it. - -- Timothy R. Haney galwylin@airnet.net The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 13:16:55 EST From: BoBoII@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Hule v. Baronies In a message dated 2/6/99 10:59:51 AM, rmunch@easynet.co.uk writes: << Ahh, Hule sucks :) the Savage Baronies are cool :) How can they lose if they have Zorro on their side? >> I though Manuel of the Planes was Zorro? Is he now a 'Coaster? Seriously, where is this invasion mentioned again? I always feel that Sind gets a real raw deal in all this. They are the whipping boy of the KW ( Darokin can survive, the Baronies can survive, etc). Like the Russian Empire of yore, I'd think the Master would long for the riches of the coast. . . Small, disorganized baronies ripe for the plucking/corrupting one by one. Is it too much for the Master of Deception to discover the Herathean secrets? Wouldn't the Master in all his years of power and plotting be intrigued by the inheritance? Wouldn't control of the Red Steel mines effectively make him the 500 pound gorilla when everyone would be clamoring for it. He wouldn't have to conquer them all, just control this vital natural resource. On a side note, and a Real World intrusion to Mystara, I keep waiting for the Desert Nomads and the peoples of the Black Mountains to become a major pain in the Master's side, not unlike the Muhajadin in Afghanistan. ITRW, these guys fought the Indians, Turks, British, and Soviets and none of these groups ever learned from the problems of the last invaders. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 10:26:11 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals Arminath wrote: >Oh please! The Alfheimers are in no danger of losing their culture or being >decimated! The Shadow Elves only moved up into the forests and didn't start a >massive Alfheim Elf hunt. If those stuck up surface elves would've made some >provisions and been more accomodating, this would have never have happened! Bravo! Jenn Explore Dark Myst Manor! http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 10:28:17 -0800 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE On Sat, 6 Feb 1999 21:21:27 +1100 (EST) Jonathan Nolan Said: > >Grimoire now has priest spells - so contribute them too! > >I have found one website so far to put it on. And that would be where? I'd like to see the results! Jenni - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs strawberry@jamm.com <==> http://www.jamm.com/jamm/ <------------------------------------------------------------------> God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. Then God started to think: "I should create things I *like*!" And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 10:33:21 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals >Mealiden's "job" is to protect Ilsundal himself. It's Ilsundal himself who >was slacking, when he let Alfheim get taken over: he's the one responsible >for mortal elves' welfare. Has anyone actually ever thought of how *dumb* it sounds to have one Immortal "protecting" another, a superior at that? None of the other Imms. need bodyguards...Has anyone actually given Mealiden a *job* yet, or did everyone just accept this wholesale? Second of all, just because the Immortals didn't protect Alfheim didn't mean that the elves had to cut and run if they wanted their land. As someone else said earlier, a war is never won by running away. Jenn Explore Dark Myst Manor! http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 10:45:31 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates >What all this talk I hear about questioning canon?!? I thought that >wasn't allowed here LOL...Things *have* loosened up a bit, haven't they? ;-) >Oh, another thing. Entropy is not necessarily evil or chaotic. It >serves a purpose just as much as energy or matter does and can be as >rigid in its laws as other spheres. Its unfortunate that almost all the >'bad' Immortals are stuck in it for some reason. I agree wholeheartedly (as I did about the part of "dead god," BTW)...I know that IMC, a few of the canon "good" Immortals are bad guys, a couple of the stock bad guys are neutral or even good (albeit in a strange way;), etc. I like to judge them individually, and from a neutral perspective, rather than saying for example, "Oh, Nyx likes undead, so she's bad, and since she's bad she goes in Entropy." IMNSHO, that's pretty lame. >Well, that's all from the heretic :) ;-)) ...And from this heretic. Jenn Explore Dark Myst Manor! http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 18:52:16 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: RED CURSE Was: Re: [MYSTARA] - Campaign poll >Actually, In the VotPA series, the "Savage Baronies" are called that >because of their extremely bloody history (endless border skirmishes, civil >unrest, military coups, etc). The pre-boxed set version of the Red Curse >caused anyone born in the region to have only low-to-average Intelligence >and Wisdom, and this made it almost impossible for local leaders to keep >the peace, being faced with such widespread ignorance and bad judgement. >:-( Lol. I think in the RS box, its assumed that all the nations on the Savage Coast are fighting over the cinnabryl all the time... Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 18:56:31 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Hule v. Baronies > >> > I though Manuel of the Planes was Zorro? Is he now a 'Coaster? Lol. Well, it is supposed to be a setting of swashbucklers... Struck me as a Mystaran Spanish Main. "Does he smile a lot and have a lot of teeth?" as is said on some TSR CD with regards to a Coaster... (everyone around here thought that was hilarious :) Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 10:59:55 PST From: "Ariel Guerra" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals >>Another interesting thought, since somebody mentioned Ilsundal's >relative >>inaction on Alfheim's behalf: Maybe he was otherwise occupied in >>transferring a portion of the elven lands and population to the Hollow >>World? Why does everyone think that Ilsundal and Mealiden should have intervened? First of all it's interference. Second of all, in that case Halav, Petra, and Zirchev should have kept the Thyatians out of Traladara. Ariel "To do all that one is able to do is to be a man; to do all that one would like to do is to be a god." --Napoleon I (attributed) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 19:22:11 -0000 From: "Edward Phillips" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Radiance Cheers I've got the SE gazeteer but I just need to know about the corruption effects of the Radiance, not the whole thing. Cheers - -----Original Message----- From: Markus Olavi Montola To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM Date: 06 February 1999 10:58 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Radiance >> Can somebody PLEASE send me the rules on using the radiance from GAZ 3???? > >There are about six pages of Radiance, so I have no time to type them, >but the important thing is that the Radiance can only be used within the >Principalities (something like that, anyway), so you'll need the Gaz >anyway. > >If you have the Shadow Elves' Gazetteer (does the net Gazetteer include >this?), there are described the most of the Radiance-spells, as the >Shadow elves also use it. > > - Markus > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > W A R I S P E A C E > F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y > I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 14:36:16 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates On Sat, 6 Feb 1999, Jennifer Favia wrote: > a neutral perspective, rather than saying for example, > "Oh, Nyx likes undead, so she's bad, and since she's > bad she goes in Entropy." IMNSHO, that's pretty lame. Well, I think Nyx is in entropy more because she likes death, and dead things, and decay, and that whole "antithisis to life" thingy, rather than being evil. Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 19:38:10 -0000 From: "Edward Phillips" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's new marketing strategy Ok, IMC Thyatis has now 're-claimed' Ochalea (Never could understand why they secceeded) & are plotting to re-claim the Pearl Islands. I'm also trying to develop Furmenglaive a bit. The Emperor is also putting his foot down when it comes to the supposed' independance' of Helskir and Westrourke. - -----Original Message----- From: Geoff Gander To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM Date: 06 February 1999 14:44 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's new marketing strategy >Edward wrote: > >>Does redeveloping Ochalea & the enitre Thyatian/Alphatian Milirtary count? > >Sure! Why not post it to the list when you're ready? :) > >I'm sure there are some people on the MML who would be interested. > >>PS: cool maps by the way, although any more on the cities on them? > >Thanks! :) > >As a matter of fact, information on the cities of Cestia is almost >complete - I should have this done within a week, university permitting. >There is already information on the cities of the Adakkian Sound map, >available on several sites. The rest are in varying stages of development. > >Geoff > >-- >Geoff Gander, BA 97 >Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon >Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog >au998@freenet.carleton.ca >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 14:43:39 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE In a message dated 2/6/99 4:46:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, geckoes@ozemail.com.au writes: << There are lots of spells from people's campaigns, but not so many biographies of name-level Wizards... please contribute! The more the merrier, as the Hulean slavers say... :) >> Well, if ye want statistics of myself, look no further than Stan's wonderful electronic page! Magical lore of my own may also be found on yon page if ye desire it as well! Arminath *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 14:44:26 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE Where can this Grimiore be found bychance? Arminath *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #56 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Sunday, February 7 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 057 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE - multiverse Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's new marketing strategy Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE - multiverse Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE - multiverse Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals [MYSTARA] - Alternate WotI (was Canon Debates) Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions on Alphatia and Thyatis Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE - multiverse Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Radiance [MYSTARA] - Question on Thyatians and Alphatians Re: [MYSTARA] - Radiance Re: [MYSTARA] - Alternate WotI (was Canon Debates) Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions on Alphatia and Thyatis [MYSTARA] - RPG Webrings Re: [MYSTARA] - Radiance Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions on Alphatia and Thyatis Re: [MYSTARA] - RPG Webrings [MYSTARA] - Tomb [MYSTARA] - Alternate WotI Part 2 [MYSTARA] - Alternate WotI Part 3 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 14:44:04 -0500 From: Jerry Hovenanian Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE - multiverse "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" wrote: > earlier "canon" sources clearly acknowledge the > continuation of an Alfheim for at least 188 years, an Alphatia that lasts > that long or more, no previous mention was made of the Nucleus in the form > that it took in WotI, etc.etc. Well me for on would rather shake the world up a bit an how WotI does this is great. Darokin is left bloodied and bruised with 2 threats in west and in its heartland. Alphatia is put on life suport and must now rise form disaster. The Alfimers must reclame their homeland. Glantri has a big hole in it etc.... As I see it Mystara was better after WotI form one view...things REALY changed and the world didn't stagnate. > Some of us just felt a bit betrayed and suspected that WotI was more about > wrecking the usefulness of earlier projects and forcing people to buy > updated products than about adding to the game continuum. No timeline remains "canon" for long anyways....the PCs never do what the books do. Hell my PCs sometimes...i think go out of their way to distroy a timeline (almost burning Darokin City to the ground,Alphatia never sank). So if you use WotI or not....just because a book printed a few years ago says that this nation lives and that one dies....doesn't meen that has to be way it is. Cannon is (IYC,IMC,ITGOTC) everything you use and do....not what the gods on high say. - -- Jerry Hovenanian clumsydwarf@hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 15:06:09 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's new marketing strategy In a message dated 2/6/99 12:49:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, galwylin@airnet.net writes: << They are redoing "Keep on the Borderlands" though I have bets that no mention of Mystara will be found in it. >> AFAIK the Keep on the Borderlands will be reformatted as another "Return" (like Return to the Tomb of Horrors). It was a generic adventure to start with, but GAZ 1 did a decent job of offering a location, but yeah, I imagine no mention of Mystara or Karameikos will be found. Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 15:15:04 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals In a message dated 2/6/99 2:01:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, thalaric1@hotmail.com writes: << Why does everyone think that Ilsundal and Mealiden should have intervened? First of all it's interference. Second of all, in that case Halav, Petra, and Zirchev should have kept the Thyatians out of Traladara. >> They needen't have DIRECTLY intervened. But why didn't they warn their mortal followers? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 15:39:28 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates >Well, I think Nyx is in entropy more because she likes death, and dead >things, and decay, and that whole "antithisis to life" thingy, rather than >being evil. No, no, no....Nyx doen NOT like "dead things." She likes UNdead, and night creatures. A DIFFERENT form of *life.* Jenn Explore Dark Myst Manor! http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 15:42:27 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE - multiverse >Cannon is >(IYC,IMC,ITGOTC) everything you use and do....not what >the gods on high say. I couldn't agree more--thank you, Jerry! (*gosh, where were you a couple of months ago, when we were arguing over this?*) ;-)~ Jenn ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 19:57:57 -0500 From: Jerry Hovenanian Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE - multiverse Jennifer Favia wrote: > >Cannon is > >(IYC,IMC,ITGOTC) everything you use and do....not what >the gods on > high say. > > I couldn't agree more--thank you, Jerry! (*gosh, where were you a couple > of months ago, when we were arguing over this?*) ;-)~ > > Jenn "Sorry I was away for so long Mr. President, I won't let you down again." - - Superman in Superman II - -- Jerry Hovenanian clumsydwarf@hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 21:12:19 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals >Has anyone actually ever thought of how *dumb* it >sounds to have one Immortal "protecting" another, a >superior at that? None of the other Imms. need >bodyguards...Has anyone actually given Mealiden a *job* >yet, or did everyone just accept this wholesale? Now, now, Jenn ... you know what I'm up to, on this! ;-) >Second of all, just because the Immortals didn't >protect Alfheim didn't mean that the elves had to cut >and run if they wanted their land. As someone else said >earlier, a war is never won by running away. Frankly, it's not so much the loss of surface-elven culture from Alfheim, that makes me think a HW treatment is in order: it's the disruption of Alfheim's entire, unique ecosystem. There's no place else on Mystara -- even the Sylvan Realm! -- where you can find Home Trees and Sentinel Trees, or the special "elven horses" (really horse-chevall-unicorn hybrids), or the kinds of Good & Bad Magic points Alfheim used to harbor. If the Immortals can create a whole floating continent just for magical plant life (the one where the flying serpents go as adults), why should they let such a remarkable ecological creation as the Canolbarth turn into a decaying wasteland, without anything being preserved? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 21:58:18 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Alternate WotI (was Canon Debates) As the point of departure for my variant WotI, I would suggest that the debate in Pandius between Rad and Ixion leads immediately to violence among the Immortals themselves. Rather than involve mortals in a bloody war to eliminate the followers of Rad, Ixion decides to eliminate Rad himself. He orders Ilsundal to dispose of Rad, and Ilsundal successfully does so. The only effect noticed by mortals is that Prince Etienne d'Ambreville disappears and is not seen again for many years, until he is brought back by intervention of the Old Ones as described in _Mark of Amber_. In this variant I will assume that Etienne is succeeded by his widow Catherine, and that she manages to hold the family together until Henri poisons her in AC 1009. This stroke so weakens the Fellowship of the Star that the Brotherhood of the Shadow throws their full support behind them. Emboldened, Vanya attempts to assassinate Ilsundal but is stopped by Mealiden, whom she successfully destroys. She then retreats to the protection of her allies in order to evade the wrath of Ilsundal. At this point the groups direct their attentions towards the lands that revere their foes. Since Ixion is revered in Sind, Darokin, and Ethengar and Ilsundal is revered in Alfheim, the Fellowship of the Star launches a threefold attack: 1) The Heldannic Territories (followers of Vanya) invade Ethengar. 2) The Shadow Elves (followers of Rafiel) intensify their campaign to conquer Alfheim. 3) The Master of Hule (a follower of the supposedly neutral Loki) gathers his forces for an attempt to conquer Sind and then Darokin after Loki is recruited into the Brotherhood of the Shadow. Meanwhile, the Ring of Fire directs their efforts against the followers of Vanya in Thyatis and the Heldannic Territories. Glantri is of little concern to them since Rad has already been destroyed. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 21:58:16 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates In a message dated 1999-02-06 12:48:05 Eastern Standard Time, galwylin@airnet.net writes: > What all this talk I hear about questioning canon?!? I thought that > wasn't allowed here > > As for the problems with WotI, my suggestion would be to throw > everything out except the consequences. Rewrite how the story went > (lord knows it needs a rewrite) coming up with your own ideas how things > happened (like the shadow elf invasion, Alphatia's sinking, etc.). It > needed to be a much bigger war between the Immortals themselves and I > was let down that some didn't die but then I like the death of gods and > such. > > And the Savage Coast, I believe the red curse was first alluded to in X9 > The Savage Coast. The box set expanded on some of Bruce's ideas which > he expanded on from X9. Its a little larger and stronger though (I, of > course, don't believe civilization exists there to any degree). > > Oh, another thing. Entropy is not necessarily evil or chaotic. It > serves a purpose just as much as energy or matter does and can be as > rigid in its laws as other spheres. Its unfortunate that almost all the > 'bad' Immortals are stuck in it for some reason. > > Well, that's all from the heretic :) First off, I think I would have to insist that the Sphere of Entropy is basically EVIL -- any Sphere whose goals include the annihilation of all life cannot be anything else. However, it would be a grave mistake to dismiss the members of that Sphere as a bunch of mindless villains -- many of them are quite clever, and all of them have interesting and varied personalities. Some of them (such as Nyx) are even pleasant and sociable people. Nevertheless, it is vital for the other four Spheres to put aside their differences enough of the time to hold the Sphere of Entropy in check. Of course, grave consequences would ensue if the Sphere of Entropy were ever effectively threatened -- but the chances of that happening do seem rather remote. In regard to the Red Curse, I don't recall seeing it mentioned at all in X9 -- I think that Bruce Heard first introduced it in the Princess Ark series. As for rewriting WotI, I have my own ideas for that, which I will save for another post. I would posit a relatively major change that turns out to make surprisingly little difference in the overall series of events during the first decade of the 11th century.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 22:34:45 -0500 From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions on Alphatia and Thyatis The treatment would be very similar to an American in the USSR, or vice versa, in my opinion. Nurvel@aol.com wrote: > How would Thyatians treat Alphatians in their lands during the time of the > Gazeteers, and vise versa? I'm getting ready to start a campaign and i need > to know these things. It is going to be based in The Isle of Dawn. i know > that these people sort of live together but I dont know how they would act > towards each other, maybe like Thyatians and Traladarans? > > Thank you very much...to everyone that helps > Nurvel > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 21:07:24 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE - multiverse >> I couldn't agree more--thank you, Jerry! (*gosh, where were you a couple >> of months ago, when we were arguing over this?*) ;-)~ >> >"Sorry I was away for so long Mr. President, I won't let you down again." >- Superman in Superman II lol ;-)) Jenn ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 21:11:11 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals Sharon wrote: >Now, now, Jenn ... you know what I'm up to, on this! ;-) Oh, I know, indeed! ;-) I was just playing devil's advocate, goading the others. 8-)~ >why should they let such >a remarkable ecological creation as the Canolbarth turn into a decaying >wasteland, without anything being preserved? Oh, I agree with you one hundred percent on the *other* unique lifeforms of Alfheim; they should most definitely be preserved in the HW. Just leave out the elves. ;-) Jenn Explore Dark Myst Manor! http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 00:11:18 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE Are you looking for D&D or AD&D spells......????????????? In a message dated 2/6/99 4:22:22 AM Central Standard Time, geckoes@ozemail.com.au writes: << Grimoire now has priest spells - so contribute them too! I have found one website so far to put it on. :) >> *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 16:23:32 +1100 (EST) From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE I am looking for either D&D or AD&D spells, but preferably AD&D. Everyone so far has sent in AD&D or AD&D-ish spells. Reason being that the format is the most like a Universal format I suppose. :) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 00:25:49 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals In a message dated 2/6/99 11:33:41 AM Central Standard Time, Kaviyd@aol.com writes: << An alternative approach involves the old Companion level _Tree of Life_ module. Be sure that this adventure is successfully completed prior to the Shadow Elf conquest of Alfheim. At that point most of the Feadiel clan returns to the Sylvan Realm. (Presumably the difficulties that the adventurers encountered with using the Rainbow Bridge are cleared up in time for it to be used to transport large numbers of first level elves.) >> Does anyone have any articles on this Rainbow bridge thing? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 00:27:05 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Radiance In a message dated 2/6/99 11:33:52 AM Central Standard Time, Kaviyd@aol.com writes: << Better than that -- the entire Shadow Elf gazetteer was uploaded for free distribution. I am not sure of the current URL, if any. >> Its on TSR but it doesnt work correctly.....you have to convert it to a different type of file.....at least me and several others had to..... By the Way.......does anyone know where there may be some maps of Alfhiem online..??? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 00:37:58 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Question on Thyatians and Alphatians I am not sure that my original posting got through so. Do Thyatians allow Alphatians in there lands without persecution and vice versa? This question includes the Isle of Dawn....even though i think alot of them live together on the Iof Dawn *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 10:00:45 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Radiance On Sat, 6 Feb 1999, Edward Phillips wrote: > Cheers I've got the SE gazeteer but I just need to know about the corruption > effects of the Radiance, not the whole thing. Cheers Every time a character uses a related spell or power, there is a 1% chance of corruption. Then roll dice and see if it's a hand, an arm, the chest, a leg, the back, or part of head or face. The affected part is withered and/or mutilated. When the whole body is corrupted, the character turns to a lich or an intelligent zombie. As this is a permanent artifact-effect, it cannot be healed even with the Wish. - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 10:03:49 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alternate WotI (was Canon Debates) > Meanwhile, the Ring of Fire directs their efforts > against the followers of Vanya in Thyatis and the > Heldannic Territories. Glantri is of little concern > to them since Rad has already been destroyed. A fine beginning, but what then destroys the Alphatia? - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 03:25:53 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions on Alphatia and Thyatis In a message dated 2/7/99 1:11:02 AM Central Standard Time, jdaly@friend.ly.net writes: << The treatment would be very similar to an American in the USSR, or vice versa, in my opinion. >> That sounds about right................They are at peace at the time of the Gazs.. thanks *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 03:35:01 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - RPG Webrings Does anyone know any good RPG webrings? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 09:21:13 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Radiance >Every time a character uses a related spell or power, there is a 1% >chance of corruption. Then roll dice and see if it's a hand, an arm, the >chest, a leg, the back, or part of head or face. The affected part is >withered and/or mutilated. When the whole body is corrupted, the >character turns to a lich or an intelligent zombie. As this is a >permanent artifact-effect, it cannot be healed even with the Wish. Just out of interest, there is a probability involved there (1%). Would you say, in your opinion, that a Wild Mage (specialists in probability magic) would be able to use wild magic (for example, an Alternate Reality spell (which the wild mage could cast after being corrupted) to drastically reduce the chance of corruption? If he could, than the chance of corruption is down from 1 in 100 to 1 in 10,000... A wildmage who knew of the Radiance could even design a spell specifically to lower the probability of being afflicted by the negative aspects of Radiance use. Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 09:24:00 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions on Alphatia and Thyatis ><< The treatment would be very similar to an American in the USSR, or vice >versa, > in my opinion. > >> Well, at university, when i was in halls, there was an American and three Russians all in the same corridor :) They seemed to all get on quite well :) Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 06:42:09 -0500 From: Jerry Hovenanian Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - RPG Webrings HTTP://www.webring.com/indx.html - -- Jerry Hovenanian clumsydwarf@hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 12:48:42 +0100 From: Ezio Pignatelli Subject: [MYSTARA] - Tomb Jim wrote: > Alot of the original material is expanded upon, and traversing the original > Tomb is *required*! It is a huge adventure and took my players 11 gaming > sessions of about 12 hours each to get near the end before they finally died. Session of 12 hours EACH! Eich! I love you! My players are used to 4 hours game sessions... *envy* *envy* - -- Ezio Pignatelli - Dipartimento di Astronomia - Padova Tel: +39-49-8293459 - Fax: +39-49-8759840 mailto:pignatelli@pd.astro.it http://leda.pd.astro.it/~epignat - -- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 07:28:06 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Alternate WotI Part 2 It seems that I let the first part of this message get out without indicating that there was more to come. Anyway.... The bloodbath among the Immortals can be continued if anyone has ideas for other Immortals to be destroyed, but Rad and Mealiden seem to be enough to get things going. The first plots to show their effects in the world of mortals are the Shadow Elf plots against Alfheim. These plots are thwarted almost too easily by various adventurers. However, various other events lead to the dispersal of Alfheim Elves throughout the Known World and beyond and leave Alfheim itself unable to defend itself against a later Shadow Elf invasion: The successful completion of the _Tree of Life_ adventure causes the Feadiel clan to return to the Sylvan Realm. As they settle in, they discover that the forest of the Sylvan Realm is much larger and less crowded than the Canolbarth, so they invite other clans to join them. Many Long Runners accept this invitation, as they see Alfheim as becoming too civilized. The Erendyl clan officially remains in Alfheim, but many of its members join their Erewan cousins in Glantri. The Chossums establish lucrative trade partnerships with many nations, especially Darokin, where most of the clan leaders eventually move. The defeat of the Shadowlord of Denagoth by adventurers in Wendar and the re-establishment of relations with the Elves of the Geffron forest leads many members of the Mealidil clans to move north to assist their distant cousins in rebuilding. Meanwhile, many Grunalfs are lured to Karameikos when Stefan encourages elven immigration in return for their assistance in teaching magic and maintain- ing the forests. Finally, many members of the Red Arrow clan join Darokin's subsequent war with the Master. Next up: Revised timeline *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 07:28:10 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Alternate WotI Part 3 AC 1004: By this year numerous incidents between Alphatia on the one hand and Thyatis and the Heldanners on the other hand have greatly increased tension in the Known World. The riot in Thyatis city occurs on schedule, and Alphatians become increasingly belligerent with nearly everyone. Glantri is not directly involved in this dispute, but the loss of the leadership of Prince Etienne has led to increased squabbling among the remaining Princes. The death of the Alphatian spy and the response to Alphatia's proclamation are unchanged, but with no surviving Immortal having a vested interest in stirring up tensions between Glantri and Alphatia, the crisis quickly blows over. In Alphatia, General Torenal does disappear, but not because he was murdered -- instead, he has begun his quest for Immortality in the Sphere of Matter. Finally, the Heldannic attack on Ethengar occurs with the full encouragement of Vanya, who still wishes to strike at Ixion, who is worshiped as Tubak by the Ethengars. In AC 1005 the Master conquers Sind and invades Darokin, while Alphatia begins conquering Thyatian holdings on the Isle of Dawn. An alliance between Thyatis and the Heldanners is revealed when the Heldanners break off their attack on Ethengar in order to go to the aid of the Thyatians. Before long most of the Known World is drawn into two separate wars. Glantri and Karameikos are among the nations that ally with Darokin, and Ylaruam and Ethengar end up siding with the Master. This war continues until AC 1006, when the Master is defeated and seemingly destroyed. The Huleans pull back, and, after a couple years of squabbling over the succession, reunify under a new leader. After putting down a revolt in Sind, they turn their attention toward the Savage Coast. Note, however, that the meteor does not strike the Darokin/Glantri border at this time -- I have moved that event later as part of a larger cataclysm. By AC 1007 it becomes obvious that the apparent destruction of the Master has not ended the wars there. Ylaruam invades Thyatis, Ethengar invades Heldann, and Thar invades Glantri. The plague breaks out in Freiburg as before, and it spreads throughout the world and is intensified by later calamities. Meanwhile, Alphatia completes its conquest of the Isle of Dawn. As Alphatia prepares to continue its campaign, Ochalea and the Pearl Islands declare their independence, leaving Thyatis to face the coming Alphatian invasion. Next up: The Dark Years *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #57 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Sunday, February 7 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 058 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Alternate WotI Part 4 [MYSTARA] - Almanac 1015 Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's new marketing strategy Re: [MYSTARA] - Question on Thyatians and Alphatians Re: [MYSTARA] - Alternate WotI (was Canon Debates) Re: [MYSTARA] - Radiance [MYSTARA] - New Religion (LONG) Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates Re: [MYSTARA] - Tomb of horrors Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates Re: [MYSTARA] - New Religion (LONG) Re: [MYSTARA] - New Religion (LONG) Re: [MYSTARA] - Radiance Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates Re: [MYSTARA] - New Religion (LONG) Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions on Alphatia and Thyatis Re: RED CURSE Was: Re: [MYSTARA] - Campaign poll Re: [MYSTARA] - Path of Conqueror Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals [MYSTARA] - AD&D Modules in Mystara ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 07:28:12 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Alternate WotI Part 4 It is in AC 1008, as the Alphatians begin their attacks on mainland Thyatis, that the Dark Years begin with an event that is variously referred to in later years as "Skyfall" or the "Wrath of the Immortals". In the early part of this year many asteroids and meteors are found to be on a collision course with Mystara. The Immortals drop their squabbles to divert as many of these asteroids as they can, but enough still get through to do terrible damage. The biggest asteroid that gets through barely misses Alphatia, but it still manages to destabilize a nearby geographic fault. The subsequent earthquakes cause Alphatia to sink beneath the waves and causes tidal waves that wipe out many coastal cities. Another asteroid strikes the Darokin/Glantri border, with effects that are already known. Another one strikes the capital of Herath and thereby causes the Red Curse to spread throughout the Savage Coast. So much dust is stirred up that the sun is seldom seen for the next two years, and the few crops that are able to grow are insufficient to feed Mystara. Famine and plague are rampant, and many people fear that the end of the world has come. It is during these Dark Years that the Alfheim Elves, seeing that their dying forest is no longer worth defending against fresh Shadow Elf assaults, flee to Wendar and Karameikos. Rafiel alters not only the trees of Canolbarth but many of the world's crops so that they can thrive in the nearly continuous darkness that shrouds the world. Naturally, the Shadow Elves take advantage of the situation to conquer Alfheim. These altered plants save many lives during the Dark Years but begin to wither and die when sunlight returns to normal in AC 1010. During this time the undead are a major menace, as they are able to function freely on most days as well as during the night. I would not even rule out the possibility of mind flayers raiding Mystara at this time, as this would be too good an opportunity for them to pass up. During this crisis the Immortals are hard at work not only rebuilding Alphatia in the Hollow World but using their magic to reduce the time of this "nuclear winter" to less than two years. Ironically enough, they end up gaining the power for much of their work by tapping into the Nucleus of the Spheres, which in this timeline is never altered. However, they stop tapping into this power in late AC 1009, when they have drained so much energy that they cause a Week of No Magic. This drain is partially reversed over the next year by a novice Immortal who gets a little too close to the Nucleus and is absorbed into it. The morning after this sacrifice, not only does magic return to Mystara but the sun rises and shines brightly for the first time in months. By AC 1010 the world is suffi- ciently back to normal that the PWAs can be used with very little change. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 15:12:45 GMT From: Doug Weller Subject: [MYSTARA] - Almanac 1015 Is there any way I can get this as just 1 file to download? Thanks. Doug - -- Doug Weller Moderator, sci.archaeology.moderated Submissions to:sci-archaeology-moderated@medieval.org Doug's Archaeology Page: http://www.ramtops.demon.co.uk Co-owner UK-Schools mailing list: email me for details *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 18:22:09 +0200 (EET) From: Harri M{ki Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR's new marketing strategy On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, Geoff Gander wrote > > > Also, is anyone out there working on any solo projects that they might > wish to share? > As someone has hopefully noticed I have tried to write something about the history of Glantri ruling houses. So far I have done von Drachenfels and Belcadiz. Now I have been working with Erewans. I think that the order for the rest would be first Glantri, then di Sfonti and di Malapietra and then Vlaardoen, Aendyr, McGregor and Virayana. Harri Mäki hihama@uta.fi *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 13:26:46 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Question on Thyatians and Alphatians Nurvel wrote: >Do Thyatians allow Alphatians in there lands without persecution and vice >versa? Well, according to the Thyatis Player's Guide from DoTE, the only ethnic group who really dislikes Alphatians being/living in the empire are the Hattians, but then again, they hate everyone. Generally speaking, the Thyatians tend to incorporate everything they come across into their own culture, so even Alphatian traits, clothes, and so on might be copied by some people elsewhere in the empire. Mind you, this is only a guideline, and nothing says that a Thyatian citizen of Alphatian descent will not receive *any* discrimination. As for visiting Alphatians, as per your question, I guess it would be on a case-by-case basis. Nobles from other realms are treated as the equivalent rank in Thyatis, and commoners would be treated likewise, but in all likelihood they'd be watched, especially if they were prominent Alphatians. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 13:28:14 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alternate WotI (was Canon Debates) > >A fine beginning, but what then destroys the Alphatia? > > - Markus Well, I'm still working on an alternate timeline for Alphatia during the late WotI/post-WotI period (so far from AC 1009 to AC 1016). It's interesting, and I'll post it here when I'm done. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:40:02 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Radiance > >Every time a character uses a related spell or power, there is a 1% > >chance of corruption. Then roll dice and see if it's a hand, an arm, the > Just out of interest, there is a probability involved there (1%). Would you > say, in your opinion, that a Wild Mage (specialists in probability magic) > would be able to use wild magic (for example, an Alternate Reality spell > (which the wild mage could cast after being corrupted) to drastically reduce > the chance of corruption? If he could, than the chance of corruption is > down from 1 in 100 to 1 in 10,000... There is the Radiance's own spell, the Control Destiny, which can alter die rolls, but should be restricted (IMO) from altering the Radiance itself. My rule of thumb is very simple -- Mortal things affect mortal things, and Immortal things alter Immortal things (and thwart mortal things). The Radiance is of artifact origin -> Immortal magic, and therefore immune to mortal probability control. IMC, however, the Radiance is a kind of immortal magic even mortals can harness via mortal magic. Hence, with a creative use of the Radiance, even immortals may be affected. IMC, the best thing mortal can do when fighting a god is Discharge, which may even take a novice immortal out! I have not developed very specific rules, however. > A wildmage who knew of the Radiance could even design a spell specifically > to lower the probability of being afflicted by the negative aspects of > Radiance use. IMC he could not alter artifacts with his magic -- handicaps do come when they come, and that's it. - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 16:07:13 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - New Religion (LONG) My Mystara campaign has taken a dark twist this past weekend. The dozen brave heroes and adventurers entering the famed Tomb of the legendary Arch-mage Acererak had returned, with 9 of their number lost, with a chilling tale of horror and defeat. The demon demilich fed off the souls of their fallen companions and used the soul energy he'd collected over the centuries to empower himself and propel him into the ranks of the Immortals. Among the survivors all had been marked for life by the physical and mental stresses Acererak put them through. One of them had been infected with vampirism, but retained control until the hapless group came face to face with the Devourer. It bent the poor character's will as the wind parts grass and humbled the other heroes as it acsended the mortal world and joined the ranks of the Immortals. Now the vampire is in the process of establishing the first center of worship to Acererak the Devourer in the Malpheggi Swamp. Specialty Priests of the Devourer (Devourers) Requirements: Constitution 12, Intelligence 14, Wisdom 14 Prime Requisite: Wisdom Alignment: Chaotic Evil Weapons Allowed: All Blunt (type B) weapons, daggers, scimitars, scourges and scythes Armor Allowed: Hide armor, leather, studded leather and shields Major Spheres: All, astral, chaos, divination, healing (rev), necromantic, summoning, time Minor Spheres: Charm, creation (rev), healing, protection, sun (rev), wards Magical Items: Same as clerics, plus those allowed specifically to necromancers Required Proficiencies: Astrology Bonus Proficiencies: Necrology, netherworld knowledge 1) Devourers can command undead, commanding triple the normal number of skeletons and zombies. 2) Devourers are resistant to negative energy attacks (such as energy draining and ability draining), gaining a +3 bonus to saving throws against these attacks. If the attack offers no saving throw, the priest may make a special save to resist the attack, succeeding if they roll a 17 or higher on a d20. 3) Devourers are very resistant to the rotting diseases that various undead creatures possess. They gain a +3 bonus to any saving throws against diseased and withering attack forms, such as mummy rot or the attack of a Staff of Withering. If the attack offers no saving throw, the priest may make a special save to resist the attack, succeeding if they roll a 17 or higher on a d20. 4) Devourers are able to make an Undead Servant (as the 1st level wizard spell) once per day. 5) At 3rd level, devourers are able to cast Rain of Blood (as the 2nd level wizard spell) once per week. 6) At 5th level, devourers are able to cast Manyjaws (as the 3rd level wizard spell) once per week. 7) At 5th level, devourers gain the ability to speak with any type of intelligent undead creature. The does not make the undead more disposed towards conversing, just grants the priest the ability to. 8) At 7th level devourers gain the ability to gate in tanar'ri once per month for lasting 1 round per level: % Roll Type 01-10 Alu-fiend (1d2) 11-20 Bar-lgura (1d2) 21-30 Cambion, Major (1d2) 31-58 Dretch (1d3) 59-71 Manes (1d3) 72-96 Rutterkin (1d3) 97-00 Succubus (1d2) 9) At 9th level, devourers are able to cast Time Pool (as the 5th level priest spell). 10) At 12th level, devourers become immune to mental control and emotional influence caused by undead, such as a vampire's charm attack. 11) At 15th level, devourers are able to absorb the spirits of newly deceased creatures. If the priest performs a small defiling ceremony requiring 5 rounds to the body within 1 turn of the creature's demise, the soul recieves a saving throw versus death magic at the creature's former level. If failed, the priest is filled with a surge of life energy, temporarily gaining the following benefits: A +1 bonus to natural Strength and Constitution scores for 1 turn per hit dice of the creature, up to the priest's racial maximum. The priest is healed of 1 hit point of damage per hit dice of the creature. If the creature was at least 10 hit dice, the life energy may be used to restore 1 level of energy draining on anyone the priest touches within 2 rounds instead of the above benefits. Each time this absorbing ability is used, the priest must succeed a system shock roll or age 1 year due to the supernatural strain. Creatures that are devoured are irrevocably lost and may not be brought back by any means, mortal or divine. If a soul resists the priest successfully, it departs for it's afterlife. Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 16:10:55 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates On Sat, 6 Feb 1999, Jennifer Favia wrote: > No, no, no....Nyx doen NOT like "dead things." She > likes UNdead, and night creatures. A DIFFERENT form of > *life.* That sounds so politically correct. I prefer to think of most undead things as "unlife" With the possible exceptions of Vampires, and Nosferatu, most undead can't feel, or experience pain or pleasure. Also, how many really nice and friendly Druj, and Odics are there? Last time I checked Matazumi was the only major undead who really didn't like causing mayhem. Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 13:22:11 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates >> No, no, no....Nyx does NOT like "dead things." She >> likes UNdead, and night creatures. A DIFFERENT form of >> *life.* >That sounds so politically correct. Gee, how unflattering. Thank you so much. >I prefer to think of most undead things as "unlife" With the possible >exceptions of Vampires, and Nosferatu, most undead can't feel, or >experience pain or pleasure. And this has *what* to do with Nyx's alignment?? >Also, how many really nice and friendly Druj, and Odics are there? Interesting how some people cannot grasp that "not necessarily evil" does not mean "Nice and friendly." Check out those grey areas; they're much more interesting, and tend to stir the imagination a lot more than the plain old black and white. Jenn Explore Dark Myst Manor! http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 16:28:47 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin Turner Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tomb of horrors On Sat, 6 Feb 1999, Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA wrote: > The use of non-Mystaran modules in Mystara is another interesting spin - > anyone got any suggested locations for other modules / settings ? > Personally, I like using the U1-3 series (Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh) in the West of Karameikos, somewhere between Vandevicsny and Black Eagle Barony. Once the characters have cleared the house and caverns, it makes for an excellent base of operations. - --Frobozz-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 16:51:46 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates On Sun, 7 Feb 1999, Jennifer Favia wrote: > And this has *what* to do with Nyx's alignment?? What did this discussion have to do with alignment? I was replying to someone's mention of her inclusion in the sphere of Entropy. Entropy = Death. Not life. Unlife. Undeath. Becoming an unfeeling mindless Zombie. > Interesting how some people cannot grasp that "not > necessarily evil" does not mean "Nice and friendly." > Check out those grey areas; they're much more > interesting, and tend to stir the imagination a lot > more than the plain old black and white. And you aimed this at me because? I think that being Undead is not another form of life, so I make a connection beween how undead are usually committed to being unfeeling minions of destruction, and now I only see black and white. Ma'am, I've seen the grey areas. In fact, I use them often. Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 16:53:09 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin Turner Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - New Religion (LONG) Ouch. Sounds like what most people who have played the Return to the Tomb of Horrors experience: if they're lucky, they get to see Acererak (did I spell that correctly?) win before their souls join the others in the Phylactery. I own the Return and the original Tomb, but my current group is not nearly ready for them. And yes, the Tomb will be put somewhere in Mystara. One thing I like to do (as well as put Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh in Karameikos) is to put the Desert of Desolation series I3-5 in Ylaruam. I know this isn't the same posting as had asked about old AD&D modules in Mystara, but I just remembered that one. :) - --Frobozz-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 17:05:29 EST From: EzJ25@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - New Religion (LONG) In a message dated 2/7/99 5:02:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, sg96d355@drexel.edu writes: << Ouch. Sounds like what most people who have played the Return to the Tomb of Horrors experience: if they're lucky, they get to see Acererak (did I spell that correctly?) win before their souls join the others in the Phylactery. >> Thw saddest thing in the whole sordid affair was that the Priest of Ixion had the power and magic items available to destroy the Phylactery and instead just HAD to touch the thing... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:05:51 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Radiance >> A wildmage who knew of the Radiance could even design a spell specifically >> to lower the probability of being afflicted by the negative aspects of >> Radiance use. > >IMC he could not alter artifacts with his magic -- handicaps do come when >they come, and that's it. Fair enough. I never really considered it to be the result of an artifact handicap... I always considered Radiance magic to be more of a direct manipulation of the fabric of magic, rather than the use of an artifact. the NoS is just what makes the whole thing possible - the "foot in the door", so to speak. Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 14:11:24 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates >> And this has *what* to do with Nyx's alignment?? > >What did this discussion have to do with alignment? I was replying to >someone's mention of her inclusion in the sphere of Entropy. Okay, forgive my semantics. I should have asked, what does the lack of feelings of the undead, as you write, have to do with Nyx's inclusion in Entropy (or lack thereof)? >And you aimed this at me because? Because you took my saying that someone concerned with undead are not necessarily committed to Entropy, and you turned it into a quip that undead aren't exactly "nice and friendly," which was never my charge, if you recall. Jenn ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:08:58 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - New Religion (LONG) >My Mystara campaign has taken a dark twist this past weekend. The dozen brave >heroes and adventurers entering the famed Tomb of the legendary Arch-mage >Acererak had returned, with 9 of their number lost, with a chilling tale of >horror and defeat. The demon demilich fed off the souls of their fallen >companions and used the soul energy he'd collected over the centuries to >empower himself and propel him into the ranks of the Immortals. Among the G Zuz. Are you all trying to talk me out of doing this adventure? Are there any time constraints on it? If there are, I'm not going in there (hell, its only Greyhawk, and they are magically backwards compared to Mystara anyway :) Callous planehopper/worldhopper, ive become :) Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 17:15:34 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions on Alphatia and Thyatis ><< The treatment would be very similar to an American in the USSR, or vice >versa, > in my opinion. > >> >That sounds about right................They are at peace at the time of the >Gazs.. >thanks Note that that's how people who are from the actual empire of Alphatia would be treated by the Thyatians. People from Thyatis' colonies on the Isle of Dawn, who just happen to be of Alphatian descent, would be viewed in much the same light as first- or second-generation Russian-Americans were, in the USA, during the Cold War: as immigrants who've gotten themselves out of an unpleasant situation, and are working hard to follow the "Thyatian Dream". :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 23:07:36 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: RED CURSE Was: Re: [MYSTARA] - Campaign poll At 01.22 07/02/99 +1100, Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA wrote: >The Red Curse may not appear out of nowhere, but it does appear out of a >David Eddings book. Really? I didn't know that. Thanks. >Other than the mindboggling nonhuman race lack of continuity with anything >else and the "sealed off by Cinnabryl" routine, the Savage Coast doesn't >add that much really. It's just a relatively new page to add to rather >than the more crowded Known World, which is presumably why it was added in >the way that it was. Unfortunately it suffers from the "it's further away >from where you started so it's like an alien planet" syndrome - wouldn't >the next bit of the world be rather like the last bit of the world if it >is physicaly contiguous with it ? Davania is a much more likely genuine >"Savage Coast". >I am surprised the Savage Coast wasn't called Draeh - >after all we already have a Yavdlom..! :) But the Savage Coast was there since before Bruce Heard started detailing it in the Princess Ark series. It was first introduced in an X-level module. >Would-be world emperor versus vicious jungle savages... >Clerical superpower versus colonists... >Not quite akin to Aston Villa v. Wolves, but close. >BUT_BUT_BUT the Savage Coast gets the "came out as a boxed set" bonus on >its War Machine roll... so, factoring that in on top of the "Bruce Heard >wrote it in Dragon" +50 modifier... yeah I can see how Hule would lose... >the first round anyway. > >:) :-) I don't think Hule is that strong: - - they don't have a decent navy; - - their troops don't have lot of Red Steel equipment (unlike their ispan neighbors); - - a large part of their army is made of not-so-reliable humanoids; - - the barbarians in the north are a costant threath, so the Master cannot remove too many soldiers from teh northern border. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@gdr.net Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 23:16:21 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Path of Conqueror At 11.50 06/02/99 -0500, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: > >Granted. Still, it's far more efficient to usurp control of an >organization (e.g. a nation, an army, a cult) that already exists, than to >build one up from scratch! That's what Atzanteotl's done with the >traditional faith of the Azcans -- which was always theocratic and >tyrannical, albeit in Ixion's name rather than his -- and it's more or less >what the Master's done, by creating the "polyglot" empire of Hule, in that >he's forced his authority upon the people of Sind and other pre-existent >nations rather than carving an all-new country out of the wilderness, >Norwold-style. > >But we're getting into purely-semantic arguments here, so I'll agree to >disagree on this if you will. :-) Mmmh... I'm a bit confused, but I agree.... well, at least I think I agree :-) ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com brizio@gdr.net DM in City Of The Stars - Mystaran Almanac Assistant Student of Aerospace Enginnering - ICQ #1688817 Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 23:18:47 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals At 10.33 06/02/99 PST, Jennifer Favia wrote: > >Has anyone actually ever thought of how *dumb* it >sounds to have one Immortal "protecting" another, a >superior at that? None of the other Imms. need >bodyguards...Has anyone actually given Mealiden a *job* >yet, or did everyone just accept this wholesale? > I accept it as is. IMO it shows how useless and "stupid" Mealiden is. No offense intended to all Mealiden's followers around here :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 23:40:46 +0100 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?=" Subject: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Modules in Mystara In my present DM activity, I have used (or plan or planned to use) the following: 1. Egg of the Phoenix (I10 I think) somewhere in Norworld. The old emire of Empyrea can be turned into an Antalian jarldom and the Evil Lord of Garythane linked to Denagoth/Essuria. Would require extensive map changes, but the plot and dungeons are great IMO. 2. RQ4 Goblyns' Feast: I do not like Ravenloft as a campaign, but some of the modules are well-written and, due to their "Gothic" athmosphere, can fit well in Mystara. The domain of Kartakass can be promptly slipped into Averoigne or Malinbois. 3. I?? Ravenloft II: Mordent could go well in Glantri, but it has a sea-side. I would place it in Darokin (due to the Renaissance outlook of the setting) or Alphatia (where else would an Alchemist dabble with the components of soul?) 4. DL?? Oak Lords: It is one of the most UN-DL modules I have ever met, but the chaos-corruption ambiance could inspire a quest in the Geffron forest during the AC1016 Crusade. Besides, I placed S1, S2 and S4 in Glantri and linked them with some hostilities with Ethengar and artifact questing. I played Q1 without the rest of the series (G and D), taking Lolth (one of my favorite villains) as an Entropic Immortal of Arachnids. "Drow" are just another name for Schattenalfen corrupted into serving her. Andrés *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #58 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Sunday, February 7 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 059 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates Re: RED CURSE Was: Re: [MYSTARA] - Campaign poll Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Modules in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates Re: RED CURSE Was: Re: [MYSTARA] - Campaign poll Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates RE: [MYSTARA] - Tomb of horrors Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates RE: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals [MYSTARA] - Hello !!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 16:47:15 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: > > First off, I think I would have to insist that the Sphere of Entropy is > basically EVIL -- any Sphere whose goals include the annihilation of > all life cannot be anything else. However, it would be a grave mistake > to dismiss the members of that Sphere as a bunch of mindless > villains -- many of them are quite clever, and all of them have > interesting and varied personalities. Some of them (such as Nyx) > are even pleasant and sociable people. Nevertheless, it is vital > for the other four Spheres to put aside their differences enough > of the time to hold the Sphere of Entropy in check. Death is as natural as birth. You can't create without destroying something. Every sphere has an important part to play in the scheme of the universe. Its an endless cycle. Entropy shouldn't be labeled as evil anymore than matter should. What I mean be it being unfortunate all the evil/chaotic Immortals are assigned to Entropy is because that doesn't reflect Entropy's purpose correctly. There should be lawful Immortals in that sphere as well as good. This applies to the other sphere's in that they should have evil Immortals in theirs. Let me ask this. If entropy is evil for wanting to realize its goals, isn't energy also evil for wanting its own goals met? Does it believe matter or time should be as important as itself? Entropy can be a great source for conflicts but no more or less than the others. I know this is current day thinking and that Mystarians may still believe death is evil. But do they believe that when time has ravaged their bodies? I don't deal with the spheres too much myself since I see them as fairly neutral on a moral scale. And they all seem to cancel each other out. For one to be destroyed, the whole would collapse. > Of course, grave consequences would ensue if the Sphere of Entropy > were ever effectively threatened -- but the chances of that happening do > seem rather remote. That's probably because all the sphere's goal to become dominate will probably never happen. > In regard to the Red Curse, I don't recall seeing it mentioned at all in > X9 -- I think that Bruce Heard first introduced it in the Princess Ark > series. Okay, what I'm thinking about is that cinnabryl and red steel are mentioned not the red curse. > As for rewriting WotI, I have my own ideas for that, which I will save > for another post. I would posit a relatively major change that turns > out to make surprisingly little difference in the overall series of events > during the first decade of the 11th century.... I've read your posts. Looks interesting :) - -- Timothy R. Haney galwylin@airnet.net The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 23:00:02 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: RED CURSE Was: Re: [MYSTARA] - Campaign poll >>Not quite akin to Aston Villa v. Wolves, but close. Aston Villa? They are doing quite well in the FA Cup at the moment :-) >I don't think Hule is that strong: >- they don't have a decent navy; >- their troops don't have lot of Red Steel equipment (unlike their ispan >neighbors); >- a large part of their army is made of not-so-reliable humanoids; >- the barbarians in the north are a costant threath, so the Master cannot >remove too many soldiers from teh northern border. Basically, it seems to me like the Savage Baronies have adventurers. Thats a resource that would make any army pale. Having hundreds of daring Swashbucklers moving in and making your life miserable, duelling Hulean captains and publicly embarassing them, and stuff like that, has got to be a bind. I'm sure Hule reckons its really not worth the effort to invade a couple of little baronies, who really have little to offer - especially if the Red Curse is limited purely to the Savage Coast. Cheerz Rob, aka the Dread Pirate Roberts *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 23:11:03 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Modules in Mystara >1. Egg of the Phoenix (I10 I think) somewhere in Norworld. The old emire of >Empyrea can be turned into an Antalian jarldom and the Evil Lord of >Garythane linked to Denagoth/Essuria. Would require extensive map changes, >but the plot and dungeons are great IMO. Ugh! Didnt like that adventure at all. Maybe it was the DM... >2. RQ4 Goblyns' Feast: I do not like Ravenloft as a campaign, but some of >the modules are well-written and, due to their "Gothic" athmosphere, can >fit well in Mystara. The domain of Kartakass can be promptly slipped into >Averoigne or Malinbois. > >3. I?? Ravenloft II: Mordent could go well in Glantri, but it has a >sea-side. I would place it in Darokin (due to the Renaissance outlook of >the setting) or Alphatia (where else would an Alchemist dabble with the >components of soul?) Ravenloft, IMHO, is the second best campaign world - behind Mystara of course :-) (Then, I do like Hammer films). I think there are a lot of similarities between Ravenloft and Glantri. Boldavia/Barovia, Forlorn/Klantyre, Aalban/whatever that militaristic domain is in Ravenloft... Castles Forlorn is a really cool adventure, that I have been planning on running set in Klantyre, with Brannart McGregor taking the role of Tristen ApBlanc. The little I know of the McGregor family history sounds similar to that of Tristen, as well. Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 18:46:17 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates On Sun, 7 Feb 1999, Jennifer Favia wrote: > Okay, forgive my semantics. I should have asked, what does the lack of > feelings of the undead, as you write, have to do with Nyx's inclusion in > Entropy (or lack thereof)? All of life as we know it and hold dear revolves around the fact that each person has emotions, and free will, and can sense his/her existence. Most undead can't do that. Most undead are animated corpses. Its not life, it's not death. Its just an abhorration. > Because you took my saying that someone concerned with undead are not > necessarily committed to Entropy, and you turned it into a quip that Undead are entropic creatures. they bust the whole life-death cycle, and usually seek to destroy life. That seems like a nice inclusion into the Sphere of Entropy. Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 19:52:11 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Morris Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates I guess I'll throw my 2 cents in here, since this touches on one of my favorite debates... (And, let me just preface all of this with a BIG IMHO, since I KNOW not everyone agrees with this outlook...) On Sun, 7 Feb 1999, Tim wrote: > Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: > > > > First off, I think I would have to insist that the Sphere of Entropy is > > basically EVIL -- any Sphere whose goals include the annihilation of > > all life cannot be anything else. > Death is as natural as birth. You can't create without destroying > something. Every sphere has an important part to play in the scheme of > the universe. Its an endless cycle. Entropy shouldn't be labeled as > evil anymore than matter should. Of course, this delves right into the heart of the D&D/AD&D Alignment system. The Sphere of Entropy isn't "evil" because it's members are just trying to reach it's goals. It's "evil" because the goals that it pursues are counter to the goals of "good." "Good" in this case is a promotion of life over death, and harmony (Law) over discord (Chaos). In the old D&D alignment way of doing things, every member of the sphere of Entropy would be labelled as "Chaotic" because their goal is to promote destruction, the end of everything, the ultimate in "chaos" and "evil." Even in AD&D this holds. "Good" is defined in the rules as being "honest, charitable, and forthright," a very modern, Western interpretation of "goodness." "Evil" is defined as being disruptive and destructive - a very Entropic definition. Of course, this is a flaw in the alignment system itself. No one can be pigeonholed into one of 9 simple definitions. However, most entropic Immortals probably should be destructive in nature, not creative. Sure some of them have creative streaks (Hel's creation of the humanoids, Nyx's creation of various undead, Thanatos's various and sundry nested plots, etc.), but their creativity is designed to promote destruction. Because of that, no Entropic, even the civil ones like Nyx, could be considered "good" or "lawful" in the AD&D game. (You could, however, make a case for neutrals). The same is somewhat true for the other Spheres, although there is more of a case for some more evil Immortals in the other Spheres. The non-Entropic Spheres are concerned with creation over destruction, but their members are not above using destruction to promote creation (or their own agendas). Especially, of course, Energy (just look at how destructive Rad and Ixion are). > I don't deal > with the spheres too much myself since I see them as fairly neutral on a > moral scale. And they all seem to cancel each other out. For one to be > destroyed, the whole would collapse. Ah, but if the entire structure collapsed, wouldn't that be the ultimate Entropy, and then wouldn't Entropy "win"? This, I feel, is Entropy's true goal - the destruction of the universe. If they can destroy even one Sphere, they might bring about total destruction. Of course, few of the Entropics probably actively pursue this goal - most Immortals seem too pre-occupied with their personal power and followers to actively promote the goals of their Sphere. And, in this way Entropy still wins, since if Mystara's universe it like ours and tends towards Entropy naturally, then eventually - millions of years into the future - Entropy succeeds anyway. Anyway, IMHO, the AD&D alignment system is broken for such large-scale descriptions of behaviour and motivation. Is Nyx truly evil because she promotes the advancement of her Chosen People (the vampires, ghouls and zombies)? Ask a vampire and then ask a human - two different answers. Just like if you asked an Ethengar and a Heldannic Knight if Vanya was evil. I think we can all agree that Alphaks is evil, but what about Rad? What about the debates that rage for weeks on this list about Rafiel? Just like the real-world, these are complex personalities. And, just like the real world you can't just slap a one-to-two word label on a person and describe them completely. And this is why I love Mystara so much. The world is so ethically and morally complex. Just when you think you know who the "good" and "bad" guys are, someone throws you a wringer and shows you how the "bad guys" see themselves as heroes and everyone else as a villain. - --- Jeremy Morris (jjmorris@donet.com) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 18:51:12 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates On Sun, 7 Feb 1999, Tim wrote: > evil anymore than matter should. What I mean be it being unfortunate > all the evil/chaotic Immortals are assigned to Entropy is because that > doesn't reflect Entropy's purpose correctly. There should be lawful Thats the problem with alignments, especially from later products. I would think that someone like Nyx would not be evil. However, You can't lump evil into chaos. Ixion is chaotic, If i recall. The Sphere of Entropy has a purpose: Death, the destruction and decay of what has been created, chaos where there is order, etc. etc. etc. The fact that most Entropics are evil, is that Evil personality types are usually a lot more anarchist and prone to pull off some random destruction. Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 18:08:43 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates Oh, this looks like a great argument.. er, discussion to jump into :) SteelAngel wrote: > > Most undead can't do that. Most undead are animated corpses. Its not life, > it's not death. Its just an abhorration. That might be true for skeletons and zombies. As you go up the undead food chain, its becomes murky. Many times (like most vampire myths) the undead are the same person they were in life only a different type of life. Its confusing to me. I've read things that say undead are without thought (the reason some mind altering spells don't work on them) and just as many that they are the dead returned to a different form of life (to which they may feel cursed in). > Undead are entropic creatures. they bust the whole life-death cycle, and > usually seek to destroy life. Well, I know most aren't in agreement with me, but entropy is a part of that life-death cycle. Undead aren't what I'd consider entropic since they are still a form of life (which is what entropy is meant to stop). Like you said, they are an abhorration and their existence is as damaging to entropy as life. Certainly they may appear to be furthering the goals of entropy but only in the short term. They too will have to be swept aside. I could say undead are a product of energy :) - -- Timothy R. Haney galwylin@airnet.net The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 19:18:17 -0500 From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: RED CURSE Was: Re: [MYSTARA] - Campaign poll >>The Red Curse may not appear out of nowhere, but it does appear out of a >>David Eddings book. > >Really? I didn't know that. Thanks. > Okay, I've read the Belgariad, the Malloreon, the Elenium and the Tamuli, as well as Belgarath the Sorcerer and Polgara the Sorceress. Where in the name of Halav does the Red Curse appear? Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 18:18:43 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates SteelAngel wrote: > > Thats the problem with alignments, especially from later products. I would > think that someone like Nyx would not be evil. Well, I've said before TSR confused law/chaos for good/evil so many times they've just about made everything subjective. > However, You can't lump evil into chaos. Ixion is chaotic, If i recall. That's true and if I did that, it wasn't my intent. Only that in D&D, chaotic equal evil so Entropy must be evil since its classified as chaotic (according to TSR). > The Sphere of Entropy has a purpose: Death, the destruction and decay of > what has been created, chaos where there is order, etc. etc. etc. The fact > that most Entropics are evil, is that Evil personality types are usually a > lot more anarchist and prone to pull off some random destruction. Hmm, what if I turned that around? Entropy is to create order where there is chaos. Life being a perfect example of true chaos :) Entropy's destruction isn't random. Its all done in reach of a single goal (which is why it should be home to lawful as well as chaotic Immortals). - -- Timothy R. Haney galwylin@airnet.net The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 18:39:07 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates Jeremy Morris wrote: > > Of course, this delves right into the heart of the D&D/AD&D Alignment > system. The Sphere of Entropy isn't "evil" because it's members are just > trying to reach it's goals. It's "evil" because the goals that it pursues > are counter to the goals of "good." "Good" in this case is a promotion of > life over death, and harmony (Law) over discord (Chaos). In the old D&D > alignment way of doing things, every member of the sphere of Entropy would > be labelled as "Chaotic" because their goal is to promote destruction, the > end of everything, the ultimate in "chaos" and "evil." A few points. Good sometimes doesn't have a bit of concern for law. They can be just as interested in chaos as evil. And... > Even in AD&D this holds. "Good" is defined in the rules as being "honest, > charitable, and forthright," a very modern, Western interpretation of > "goodness." "Evil" is defined as being disruptive and destructive - a > very Entropic definition. Evil has no problem being forthright when the truth serves them. Evil is actually defined in simplist terms as selfish. Not just occassionally but everything they do (obeying laws, lying, returning stolen property, etc.) some how promotes themselves. I've known people that gave to charities simply for the privilage to brag about it. But, the alignment system doesn't really speak about these types of situations since its so difficult to even know when we ourselves are acting out of good or evil :) > Of course, this is a flaw in the alignment system itself. No one can be > pigeonholed into one of 9 simple definitions. However, most entropic > Immortals probably should be destructive in nature, not creative. Sure > some of them have creative streaks (Hel's creation of the humanoids, Nyx's > creation of various undead, Thanatos's various and sundry nested plots, > etc.), but their creativity is designed to promote destruction. Because > of that, no Entropic, even the civil ones like Nyx, could be considered > "good" or "lawful" in the AD&D game. (You could, however, make a case for > neutrals). Nyx could also be chaotic evil in AD&D. She is operating for selfish reasons. But we seem to have selfishness on a scale. A certain bit is fine but too much is bad. Its even harder in that one day, being selfish is standing up for yourself and the next its being crude :) > The same is somewhat true for the other Spheres, although there is more of > a case for some more evil Immortals in the other Spheres. The > non-Entropic Spheres are concerned with creation over destruction, but > their members are not above using destruction to promote creation (or > their own agendas). Especially, of course, Energy (just look at how > destructive Rad and Ixion are). Yes, you could say creation over destruction but they still end up destroying. Entropy attempts to make certain they are fulfilling their purpose by not creating (but then their religious activities and Nyx are all part of a creative aspect). No sphere is entirely pure. Like I said before, the spheres cancel out for me. Time, for example, is probably as destructive if not more than entropy. It balances itself out but if you buy into the theory that nothing exists in a vacuum, as the moment Entropy destroys the universe, it gives birth to a new one :) > Of course, few of the Entropics probably actively pursue this goal - most > Immortals seem too pre-occupied with their personal power and followers to > actively promote the goals of their Sphere. And, in this way Entropy > still wins, since if Mystara's universe it like ours and tends towards > Entropy naturally, then eventually - millions of years into the future - > Entropy succeeds anyway. That's one thing that makes me wonder why they even used this idea of spheres. No Immortal seems to really pay attention to their sphere's goals as much as their own. They may as well just give up on those clubs. > And this is why I love Mystara so much. The world is so ethically and > morally complex. Just when you think you know who the "good" and "bad" > guys are, someone throws you a wringer and shows you how the "bad guys" > see themselves as heroes and everyone else as a villain. Well, I don't think its just Mystara but Mystara may get more examination since it seems to at odds with itself in several ways. We end up discussing the ethics of Mystara since they aren't really well defined that you can just look over them. - -- Timothy R. Haney galwylin@airnet.net The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 08:41:10 +0800 From: Murphy Jason Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Tomb of horrors Heyhey...this is EXACTLY where I set u1-3 as well. And I must say it worked rather well. Not bad modules at those ones. Particularly the first one. A good "thinking" module for low level characters. And it does fit very well into the wester karameikos coast. Jason Murphy Software Engineer MITS Limited EMAIL:  HYPERLINK mailto:jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au PHONE: 08 9481 4066 FAX: 08 9481 4064 -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Turner [SMTP:sg96d355@drexel.edu] Sent: Monday, February 08, 1999 5:29 AM To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tomb of horrors On Sat, 6 Feb 1999, Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA wrote: > The use of non-Mystaran modules in Mystara is another interesting spin - > anyone got any suggested locations for other modules / settings ? > Personally, I like using the U1-3 series (Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh) in the West of Karameikos, somewhere between Vandevicsny and Black Eagle Barony. Once the characters have cleared the house and caverns, it makes for an excellent base of operations. --Frobozz-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 02:13:38 +0100 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?=" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates If I like something of the OD&D "metaphysical" system, it is their basing the Planes and Immortals more in Physics principles (albeit fantasy Physics, of course), than on the moral axis that has permeated the AD&D game: see, the correspondence between the Elemental Planes and the Four Spheres, the need of Immortals belonging to one of those spheres... so I think that Entropy should be understood as a physical principle, linked to the Second Law of Thermodinamics. So, it is a NATURAL sphere and does not entail any degree of Good or Evil (it involves chaos, but in a physical sense, as, as Entropy increases, the Universe becomes more chaotic). If we think according to physical principles, it becomes clear why all spheres have an associated element excepting Entropy: Entropy comes about by the progressive dispersion and degeneration of the elements, so it is linked (in a negative way) to all four of them. Anyway, physical chaos is quite different from the idea of Chaotic alignment (which implies change, variation and Energy): it is the impossibility of new reactions (and so life, progress and energy) developing. This is the thing I loved when reading through WotI: At the end of the War, the Nucleus is changed so that, for that artifact, the Universe works the other way round: instead of drawing energy and thus producing Entropy, it starts to draw fro Entropy, bringing "order" into the Universe. I will not go off-topic, but it sounds quite cloes to some RW physical hypotheses, like the inversion of the time arrow in a theoretical Big Crunch. Thus, we should make a difference between the Chaos/Order axis in the Multiverse and THE WAY IMMORTALS (and a few mortals) UNDERSTAND IT. This is what alignments try to explain. Entropic Immortals are usually Chaotic, because action (especially if it involves great amounts of explosions and the like) builds up Entropy, but Energy ones should be, too, because action and change produce energy. We know that there are many exceptions, and this is just because Immortals are NOT omniscient, as they are not omnipotent. As D&D presents them, they do not know the structure of the universe and they have not "communed with the spheres"; they just have more information than mortal beings. And they have free will, too. So, they USE the spheres to their own interests, ends and tastes; they are not their staunch supportes, excepting to avoid serious damages to them (because that would bring about their destruction, too). If Energy Immortals can be Lawful (like Rad), Chaotic (like Ixion) or Neutral (I am quoting by heart, do not flame me), why should Entropic ones be forced to be Chaotic and Evil? PS faction of the Doomguard (sadly destroyed, it was my favorite faction) gives a lot of possibilities and insights on the many faces of Entropy: nothing like "evil guys making towns explode and rising the dead from their graves". Andrés *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 09:28:36 +0800 From: Murphy Jason Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals > -----Original Message----- > From: Arminath@aol.com [SMTP:Arminath@aol.com] > Sent: Saturday, February 06, 1999 10:59 PM > To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals > > In a message dated 2/6/99 12:04:12 AM Eastern Standard Time, > dornhoff@bio.umass.edu writes: > > << Another interesting thought, since somebody mentioned Ilsundal's > relative > inaction on Alfheim's behalf: Maybe he was otherwise occupied in > transferring a portion of the elven lands and population to the Hollow > World? >> > > Oh please! The Alfheimers are in no danger of losing their culture or > being > decimated! The Shadow Elves only moved up into the forests and didn't > start a > massive Alfheim Elf hunt. If those stuck up surface elves would've made > some > provisions and been more accomodating, this would have never have > happened! > As I recall, there are no less than 4 Immortal patrons of the surface > elves > and a slew of allies that could've warned them at any time, yet no one > lifted > a finger to help the Alfheimers. Maybe the Alfheimers got what they > deserved? > > Arminath > ************************************************************************** > * > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the > line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. [MURPHY Jason] Here here. Those uppity, holier than thou elves needed a kick in the arse. I dont know why but i have never been partial to elves as a character class, possibly because most games i have played with, that played elves were power hungry munchkins that only chose them because they saw them as fighters with spells. And the the Alfheim gaz really home there superior attitudes over us mere hu-mans. All IMO of course. Then of course the Shadow elves seem to have the "weve been so hard done by" chip on there shoulder. But i still think they are preferable to Alfheim elves. They seem to have that whole "working class" feel to them. :) Jason *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 01:18:38 -0000 From: "Hoddie" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Hello !!! This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0199_01BE5300.F512ADA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have recently rekindled an interest in an old hobby of mine: Dungeons = and Dragons. I began reading through the Poor Wizard's Almanac Series a = couple of nights ago and remembered why I stopped playing it. It was = because they transformed it into an AD&D gameworld which I couldn't be = bothered learning about. To cut a long story short, I wondered what info is on the internet about = the original D&D series and found this very impressive site: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/ which no doubt is familiar to all of you. I am very impressed by all the work which is continuing and hope to = become more involved myself in the near future. I have started by = contacting old gaming mates and we have all agreed to reconvene and = arrange a session. Can't wait. I have several duplicate D&D titles (after buying a few people's = collections over the years) and will be willing to SWAP, not SELL, these = titles for others that I don't have. My duplicates: TM2: Trail Map - The Eastern Countries Pretty rare I believe. AC11: The Book of Wondrous Inventions Absolute classic but I always found it hard to incorporate. B12: Queen's Harvest Took ages to complete the first time around, but quite good. X7: The War Rafts of Kron Never manages to finish due to all the PCs dying off !! We found it very = hard. M5: Talons of Night Opened but unused. All tokens, etc. intact. Never managed to play. AC9: The original Creature Catalog I always thought this was better than the new one for some reason. = Probably sentimental ! X2: Castle Amber (Ch=E2teau d' Amberville) Simply brilliant, down to the gremlins and the absolutely mad dungeon. PC1: Tall Tales of the Wee Folk We tried and disliked. All titles, except for X2, are in near-perfect condition. X2 is in a = terrible state but I believe it is all there. As I said, it is an = absolutely brilliant module and well worth a play. If you are interested in any of the above, please E-Mail me off the list = (address at the bottom) - no need to clog everyone's mailboxes up. I'll let you know how our reunion got on ! Paul Holroyd Halifax, England E-Mail: pjh@ephtl.demon.co.uk Website: http://www.ephtl.demon.co.uk/ephtl/index.htm ICQ num: 16569347 - ------=_NextPart_000_0199_01BE5300.F512ADA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I have recently rekindled an = interest in=20 an old hobby of mine: Dungeons and Dragons. I began reading through the = Poor=20 Wizard's Almanac Series a couple of nights ago and remembered why I = stopped=20 playing it. It was because they transformed it into an AD&D = gameworld which=20 I couldn't be bothered learning about.
 
To cut a long story short, I = wondered=20 what info is on the internet about the original D&D series and found = this=20 very impressive site:
http://www.geocities.= com/TimesSquare/5304/
which no doubt is familiar to all of=20 you.
 
I am very impressed by all = the work which=20 is continuing and hope to become more involved myself in the near = future. I have=20 started by contacting old gaming mates and we have all agreed to = reconvene and=20 arrange a session. Can't wait.
 
I have several duplicate = D&D titles=20 (after buying a few people's collections over the years) and will be = willing to=20 SWAP, not SELL, these titles for others that I don't have.
 
My duplicates:
 
TM2: Trail Map - The Eastern=20 Countries
Pretty rare I = believe.
 
AC11: The Book of Wondrous=20 Inventions
Absolute classic but I always = found it=20 hard to incorporate.
 
B12: Queen's = Harvest
Took ages to complete the = first time=20 around, but quite good.
 
X7: The War Rafts of = Kron
Never manages to finish due = to all the=20 PCs dying off !! We found it very hard.
 
M5: Talons of = Night
Opened but unused. All = tokens, etc.=20 intact. Never managed to play.
 
AC9: The original Creature=20 Catalog
I always thought this was = better than the=20 new one for some reason. Probably sentimental !
 
X2: Castle Amber = (Château d'=20 Amberville)
Simply brilliant, down to the = gremlins=20 and the absolutely mad dungeon.
 
PC1: Tall Tales of the Wee=20 Folk
We tried and = disliked.
 
All titles, except for X2, = are in=20 near-perfect condition. X2 is in a terrible state but I believe it is = all there.=20 As I said, it is an absolutely brilliant module and well worth a=20 play.
 
If you are interested in any = of the=20 above, please E-Mail me off the list (address at the bottom) - no need = to clog=20 everyone's mailboxes up.
 
I'll let you know how our = reunion got on=20 !
 
Paul Holroyd
Halifax, England
 
E-Mail: pjh@ephtl.demon.co.uk
Websit= e: http://www.ephtl.de= mon.co.uk/ephtl/index.htm
ICQ=20 num: 16569347
- ------=_NextPart_000_0199_01BE5300.F512ADA0-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #59 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, February 8 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 060 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates Re: [MYSTARA] - Radiance Re: [MYSTARA] - Alternate WotI Part 4 Re: [MYSTARA] - New Religion (LONG) Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Modules in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - New Religion (LONG) RE: [MYSTARA] - New Religion (LONG) Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions on Alphatia and Thyatis Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Radiance Re: [MYSTARA] - New Religion (LONG) Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions on Alphatia and Thyatis [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor link RE: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Modules in Mystara [MYSTARA] - Isle of Dawn Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates Re: [MYSTARA] - New Religion (LONG) Re: [MYSTARA] - New Religion (LONG) Re: [MYSTARA] - Question on Thyatians and Alphatians Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions on Alphatia and Thyatis Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions on Alphatia and Thyatis Re: [MYSTARA] - Isle of Dawn Re: [MYSTARA] - Isle of Dawn ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 20:57:45 -0500 From: Andrew Toth Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates At 06:18 PM 2/7/99 -0600, you wrote: >Hmm, what if I turned that around? Entropy is to create order where >there is chaos. Life being a perfect example of true chaos :) >Entropy's destruction isn't random. Its all done in reach of a single >goal (which is why it should be home to lawful as well as chaotic >Immortals). Life, isn't chaotic, it just appears that way. Nothing happens for no reason.(Though poor reasons abound) All death is actually doing is making the order simpler and easier to grasp. One could say that there is no such thing as chaos, just apparent chaos, where one can not grasp the pattern. Beyowulf Steely Blue Dragon -==UDIC==- |/ "Ours is not to reason why, but to blow this joint before we die" -Ratrap, BeastWars *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 21:35:28 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates On Sun, 7 Feb 1999, Tim wrote: > That's true and if I did that, it wasn't my intent. Only that in D&D, > chaotic equal evil so Entropy must be evil since its classified as > chaotic (according to TSR). Not true. Chaotic is not considered Evil in the D&D game system. Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:12:43 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Radiance In a message dated 2/7/99 3:24:26 AM Central Standard Time, rmunch@easynet.co.uk writes: << Just out of interest, there is a probability involved there (1%). Would you say, in your opinion, that a Wild Mage (specialists in probability magic) would be able to use wild magic (for example, an Alternate Reality spell (which the wild mage could cast after being corrupted) to drastically reduce the chance of corruption? If he could, than the chance of corruption is down from 1 in 100 to 1 in 10,000... >> Which book is altenate reality in *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:16:41 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alternate WotI Part 4 Do you have these in a file.......??? They are good. i thought the WotI was kinda dumb myself *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:24:09 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - New Religion (LONG) In a message dated 2/7/99 5:13:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, rmunch@easynet.co.uk writes: << Are there any time constraints on it? If there are, I'm not going in there >> No, not until the party gains access the Acererak's Chamber of the Apotheosis, then they have 1 turn (10 rounds) to defeat him..... Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:31:19 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Modules in Mystara In a message dated 2/7/99 5:49:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, anpro@accesocero.es writes: << I played Q1 without the rest of the series (G and D), taking Lolth (one of my favorite villains) as an Entropic Immortal of Arachnids. "Drow" are just another name for Schattenalfen corrupted into serving her. >> ARGH! Mine poor ears! Oh to be able to educate the humans of this world! *sigh* Arminath *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 23:09:04 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - New Religion (LONG) On Sun, 7 Feb 1999 Arminath@aol.com wrote: > No, not until the party gains access the Acererak's Chamber of the Apotheosis, > then they have 1 turn (10 rounds) to defeat him..... Yipe. I don't even think that my character from my "Children of the Immortals" campaign could do that. But it is possible though. BTW, had anyone run one of those campaigns? Want to talk about overpowered? 6d6 for one ability, 4d6 for the others, no max restrictions, and 2 special powers. (Mine were winged flight and read languages on sight) Needless to say, we didn't spend too much time dungeon hopping, especially when we realized the full extent of what a 24 INT mage can do. Ethan - still lost in the planes. - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 12:45:31 +0800 From: Murphy Jason Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - New Religion (LONG) > -----Original Message----- > From: SteelAngel [SMTP:eand@WPI.EDU] > Sent: Monday, February 08, 1999 12:09 PM > To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - New Religion (LONG) > > On Sun, 7 Feb 1999 Arminath@aol.com wrote: > > > No, not until the party gains access the Acererak's Chamber of the > Apotheosis, > > then they have 1 turn (10 rounds) to defeat him..... > > Yipe. I don't even think that my character from my "Children of the > Immortals" campaign could do that. > > But it is possible though. > > BTW, had anyone run one of those campaigns? Want to talk about > overpowered? 6d6 for one ability, 4d6 for the others, no max restrictions, > and 2 special powers. (Mine were winged flight and read languages on > sight) > > Needless to say, we didn't spend too much time dungeon hopping, especially > when we realized the full extent of what a 24 INT mage can do. > > [MURPHY Jason] Where is the "Children of the Immortals" campaign detailed. Is it an AD&D or OD&D campaign. It is probably just my ignorance, but i have never heard of it? > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 00:43:14 EST From: BoBoII@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions on Alphatia and Thyatis In a message dated 2/7/99 5:26:14 AM, rmunch@easynet.co.uk writes: << Well, at university, when i was in halls, there was an American and three Russians all in the same corridor :) They seemed to all get on quite well :) Cheerz Rob >> Don't forget, these were students on "neutral ground", presumably all there by their own choosing. But you need only look at The cold war. Something else to include is the old inate "superiority to the rest of the world" atitude Alphatians at the highest level have towards Mystarans. Also, the Soviets never invaded and occupied America, but the Alphatians had done that to Thyatians. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 01:03:01 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates Andrew Toth wrote: > > Life, isn't chaotic, it just appears that way. Nothing happens for > no reason.(Though poor reasons abound) All death is actually doing > is making the order simpler and easier to grasp. One could say > that there is no such thing as chaos, just apparent chaos, where > one can not grasp the pattern. Well, I believe life is chaotic. There's no answer for what the purpose of life is, for example. Something without purpose would seem to be chaotic to me. I may find a purpose for my life and you for yours but there is no single purpose for both of us. But death has a single purpose. To end life. I realize it is subjective but it could well be that order doesn't exist. What we call order is just a speed bump on the way to entropy. Whew! That's about all the philosophy I could come up with :) - -- Timothy R. Haney galwylin@airnet.net The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 01:14:18 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates SteelAngel wrote: > > Not true. Chaotic is not considered Evil in the D&D game system. Its not supposed to be but there are more than a few references where chaos is equated to evil. Its that confusion of the designers I was speaking about. So, chaotic is considered evil by many of the writers. You can find chaotic Immortals in other spheres. All but two (Hel and Nyx who are neutral) in Entropy are chaotic. I'd consider Hel as she's describe to be evil and I think that's the only time we see a non-chaotic character with an evil touch. By the same token, I don't think a single lawful character is given in an evil light. We can discuss what D&D is supposed to be but that's not what it really is. As the system aged, the axis seemed to really be on the morality of good/evil instead of true law/chaos. - -- Timothy R. Haney galwylin@airnet.net The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 23:32:26 PST From: "Giggles P." Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals The Rainbow Bridge could potentially make the Sylvan >Realm the most powerful nation on Mystara.... The elves could rule the world if the wanted to anyway without the help of a rainbow bridge. Picture this. Two armies faace each other on the field of battle. Suddenly every member of the elven armies starts chanting and waving their arms. *POOF* All of the sudden you have half of the opposing army charmed into thinking that they're fighting for the wrong side, or asleep, or blinded for a few minutes, or whatever. Unless you have alot of mages with alot of dispell or similar spells it's goign to be cake for the elves to take out any KW army except for maybe Glantri and Alphatia. That's my take on things anyway. Giggles ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 07:49:27 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Radiance >Which book is altenate reality in Tome of Magic - thats the book that details wild mages. Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 07:51:52 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - New Religion (LONG) > [MURPHY Jason] > Where is the "Children of the Immortals" campaign detailed. Is it an >AD&D or OD&D campaign. It is probably just my ignorance, but i have never >heard of it? There are some rulz in the Codex of the Immortals on how to play a child of an Immortal - a sort of Mystaran Heracles, if you will. I presume this is what hes on about... Ive used the rulz a couple of times, in a few Milenian Empire adventures I ran a while back. Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 07:52:42 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions on Alphatia and Thyatis >Don't forget, these were students on "neutral ground", presumably all there by >their own choosing. But you need only look at The cold war. Something else >to include is the old inate "superiority to the rest of the world" atitude >Alphatians at the highest level have towards Mystarans. Also, the Soviets >never invaded and occupied America, but the Alphatians had done that to >Thyatians. I wonder how the Romans and the Carthaginians got on? Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 09:26:11 +0100 From: Kristian Kramer Subject: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor link Hi all, Zimriel has written a part of the history of Blackmoor; for those interested here's the link (Zimriel wrote: "Now only the "canonical" stuff is in the Gazetteer proper. It and all the extra stuff can now be found in my new Blackmoor website").: http://home.earthlink.net/~zimriel/Blackmoor/ Zimriel wrote to me: "Goodies in the Gazetteer proper include a better historical overview and general error-fixing. Above all, I overhauled the main "BM.doc" Blackmoor document. I recently got Different Worlds #42 and #43, which have another, less-known Arneson Blackmoor module. Its chief interest is that the map differed from the map of the Judges Guild and DA series maps... and agreed with the *original* map from the early 70's. I also worked on the JG map of Blackmoor town so that it actually agrees with the DA series. And I reorganized the chaotic thing. As for the rest of the Blackmoor page: I moved the future adventures off the Gazetteer and onto the webpage. They're non-canonical and besides don't have footnotes. The remainder of the Gazetteer is deliberately riddled with cross-references, which require footnoting and therefore (unfortunately) Word format. I also moved the Frisians outside the Gazetteer, because they only appear once, and in Dave Ritchie's DA4. Their canonicity is doubtful. But until the Great Arneson decides otherwise, the Frisians remain as para-canon. So, I took all the information you gave me on Dutch / Frisian piracy, and wrote up a mini-Gazetteer on Frisia: http://home.earthlink.net/~zimriel/Blackmoor/Frisians.html I put your name as co-author. Hope you don't mind ! Also, Arneson's Glendower Dungeon is now online, with notes which may help people adapt it to their campaigns. - -- Zimri" I hope ya'll find it useful. Fair greetings, Kristian Kramer *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 16:26:23 +0800 From: Murphy Jason Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals > -----Original Message----- > From: Giggles P. [SMTP:g1ggles@hotmail.com] > Sent: Monday, February 08, 1999 3:32 PM > To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals > > The Rainbow Bridge could potentially make the Sylvan > >Realm the most powerful nation on Mystara.... > > The elves could rule the world if the wanted to anyway > without the help of a rainbow bridge. > Picture this. > Two armies faace each other on the field of battle. > Suddenly every member of the elven armies starts chanting > and waving their arms. *POOF* All of the sudden you have > half of the opposing army charmed into thinking that they're > fighting for the wrong side, or asleep, or blinded for a > few minutes, or whatever. Unless you have alot of mages > with alot of dispell or similar spells it's goign to be cake > for the elves to take out any KW army except for maybe > Glantri and Alphatia. > That's my take on things anyway. > > Giggles > [MURPHY Jason] The problem with this plan of course is that given the racial population base the human army would probably outnumber the elven by a couple of orders of magnitude. Like i am thinking a thousand to one. Try and charm that mob of hooligans my aloof elven friend. :) Jason *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 09:45:31 +0100 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?=" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Modules in Mystara > << I played Q1 without the > rest of the series (G and D), taking Lolth (one of my favorite villains) as > an Entropic Immortal of Arachnids. "Drow" are just another name for > Schattenalfen corrupted into serving her. >> > > ARGH! Mine poor ears! Oh to be able to educate the humans of this world! > *sigh* > > Arminath No offence, please! It was just an adaptation because WE wanted to use that module in Mystara and we just referred to a small sect of schattenalfen, not a distinct race (they were't black, and their powers were just evil blessings of their fiend lord). The rest of Schattenalfen and Shadow Elves are still "pure" Mystara IMC Andrés *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 06:13:00 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Isle of Dawn Sorry about asking so many questions but the DotE is so generic. I would like to know if the Thothians are just like the Nithians in regard to their culture.....of course you have to throw in the alphatians rules and stuff. I also need to know if the culture isn't like the nithians anymore....then was it ever before. i am starting a campaign on the Isle of Dawn and am using some ancient Nithian stuff. From what I have read, I believe that the IofDawn was once ruled by Nithia. Thanks, Nurvel *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 07:25:51 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates In a message dated 2/7/99 6:21:48 PM Central Standard Time, galwylin@airnet.net writes: << Well, I've said before TSR confused law/chaos for good/evil so many times they've just about made everything subjective. >> This is part of what makes AD&D good for alignments...as opposed to D&D *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 07:36:08 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - New Religion (LONG) In a message dated 2/8/99 1:54:51 AM Central Standard Time, rmunch@easynet.co.uk writes: << There are some rulz in the Codex of the Immortals on how to play a child of an Immortal - a sort of Mystaran Heracles, if you will. I presume this is what hes on about... Ive used the rulz a couple of times, in a few Milenian Empire adventures I ran a while back. Cheerz Rob >> What is the Codex of the immortals? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:02:53 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - New Religion (LONG) ><< There are some rulz in the Codex of the Immortals on how to play a child of > an Immortal - a sort of Mystaran Heracles, if you will. I presume this is > what hes on about... > > Ive used the rulz a couple of times, in a few Milenian Empire adventures I > ran a while back. > > Cheerz > > Rob > >> >What is the Codex of the immortals? Its part of the WotI box. The box contains two books, one of which details the Wrath of the Immortals timeline, the other, Codex of the Immortals, is a rulebook equivalent to the rulz on Immortals in the old D&D Immortals gold box. Legends and Lore for D&D, if u like, plus rulz on how to play an Immortal. IMHO, the best bit of the WotI box! Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 08:24:59 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Question on Thyatians and Alphatians You might have missed my response...the treatment would be somewhat similar to Americans in the Ussr or the Soviets in America. The cases would be rare, and certainly Thyatians would be suspicious of an Alphatian in their midst, and vice versa, but I don't think either would be exactly "banned". Nurvel@aol.com wrote: > > I am not sure that my original posting got through so. > > Do Thyatians allow Alphatians in there lands without persecution and vice > versa? > > This question includes the Isle of Dawn....even though i think alot of them > live together on the Iof Dawn > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 08:30:20 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions on Alphatia and Thyatis Exactly my point! There would be crossovers, and individuals could certainly get along well. I doubt either would be banned from entering the other's territory, but the general nature of each toward the other would be distrust and suspicion. Rob wrote: > > ><< The treatment would be very similar to an American in the USSR, or vice > >versa, > > in my opinion. > > >> > > Well, at university, when i was in halls, there was an American and three > Russians all in the same corridor :) > They seemed to all get on quite well :) > > Cheerz > > Rob > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 10:29:11 EST From: BoBoII@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions on Alphatia and Thyatis In a message dated 99-02-08 02:55:34 EST, you write: << I wonder how the Romans and the Carthaginians got on? >> Cartago delenda est! Alphatia delendo Est!! (If i remember my western civ. class correctly) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 16:33:16 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Isle of Dawn On Mon, 8 Feb 1999 Nurvel@aol.com wrote: > Sorry about asking so many questions but the DotE is so generic. I would like > to know if the Thothians are just like the Nithians in regard to their > culture.....of course you have to throw in the alphatians rules and stuff. I > also need to know if the culture isn't like the nithians anymore....then was > it ever before. i am starting a campaign on the Isle of Dawn and am using > some ancient Nithian stuff. From what I have read, I believe that the IofDawn > was once ruled by Nithia. Thothia on the Isle of Dawn(IoD) was originally a Nithian colony. However, when the Nithians were corrupted, the Thothians did not turn to worshipping Entropy, which is the reason why they were left alone and not destroyed like the Nithians. Thothian culture has obviously changed during the last 1500 years. It shows similarities to the origian nithian culture, but is also dominated by a form of Mysticism, that IIRC was developed around the time when Nithia was corrupted. Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 11:24:32 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Isle of Dawn >On Mon, 8 Feb 1999 Nurvel@aol.com wrote: > >> Sorry about asking so many questions but the DotE is so generic. I >>would like >> to know if the Thothians are just like the Nithians in regard to their >> culture.....of course you have to throw in the alphatians rules and >>stuff. I >> also need to know if the culture isn't like the nithians anymore....then was >> it ever before. i am starting a campaign on the Isle of Dawn and am using >> some ancient Nithian stuff. From what I have read, I believe that the >>IofDawn >> was once ruled by Nithia. > >Thothia on the Isle of Dawn(IoD) was originally a Nithian colony. However, >when the Nithians were corrupted, the Thothians did not turn to >worshipping Entropy, which is the reason why they were left alone and not >destroyed like the Nithians. Thothian culture has obviously changed during >the last 1500 years. It shows similarities to the origian nithian culture, >but is also dominated by a form of Mysticism, that IIRC was developed >around the time when Nithia was corrupted. If you follow the premise of module M5: "Talons of Night", the Thothians have also been manipulated by the planar spiders of Aran, a ruined city from which the aranea race originated. About 20 generations ago, a Thothian Pharaoh was seduced by Aketheti -- a powerful "daughter"/servant of the Immortal Night Spider (aka Arachnae Prime) -- and he and his descendents have been keeping the Thothians off the Great Escarpment (arachnid territory), ever since. Much of the mysticism of modern Thothia has a spider motif to it as a result, although most humans are unaware of the Night Spider's existence or machinations. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #60 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, February 8 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 061 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Nithia [MYSTARA] - grimoire on the web (fwd) Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates Re: [MYSTARA] - Nithia Re: [MYSTARA] - Nithia Re: [MYSTARA] - New Religion (LONG) Re: [MYSTARA] - Nithia Re: [MYSTARA] - Hello !!! Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates Re: [MYSTARA] - Nithia Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates Re: [MYSTARA] - New Religion (LONG) Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 10:05:05 -0600 From: Tim Subject: [MYSTARA] - Nithia Someone like to help me clear something up? :) When the Immortals punished Nithia, did they just cause the fall of the empire only or did they also wipe its name from history and memory? I have always thought they made the name Nithia unrecognizable but some that I've read only gave the impression that it fell without known reasons (to Mystarians). I'm working on something for Karameikos and would like to get this cleared up before I continue. Thanks! - -- Timothy R. Haney galwylin@airnet.net The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 03:39:07 +1100 (EST) From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" Subject: [MYSTARA] - grimoire on the web (fwd) Re: MYSTARA GRIMOIRE Done! It's at http://www.physics.adelaide.edu.au/~ksimpson/netbooks.html I had to do some re-formatting to make it a bit easier to read - let me know if you object and I can just put it up as is.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 11:42:36 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates >Andrew Toth wrote: >> >> Life, isn't chaotic, it just appears that way. Nothing happens for >> no reason.(Though poor reasons abound) All death is actually doing >> is making the order simpler and easier to grasp. One could say >> that there is no such thing as chaos, just apparent chaos, where >> one can not grasp the pattern. > >Well, I believe life is chaotic. There's no answer for what the purpose >of life is, for example. Something without purpose would seem to be >chaotic to me. I may find a purpose for my life and you for yours but >there is no single purpose for both of us. But death has a single >purpose. To end life. I realize it is subjective but it could well be >that order doesn't exist. What we call order is just a speed bump on >the way to entropy. Actually, if you look at "life" from a thermodynamic perspective, it exists by PROMOTING chaos in the wider universe, not by opposing it! Life-processes require that order (complex molecules, i.e. food) or energy (e.g. sunlight) be constantly converted into lower-energy forms (body heat, ions, etc), merely to keep a living thing from decaying. So an argument could be made that it's "biological" life, not "unlife", that's truly a force for Chaos and Entropy: It destroys Order around it, so its own internal organization can be preserved ... a bit like how the NoS drains Energy to produce magic, if you think about it. I rather like the notion that Entropy, in itself, isn't evil; it's simply the force that's eroding the universe at this stage of its existence. Wait a few billion years, and the present multiverse will collapse, leaving the four Spheres of Integration to merge (as described in PC1), and Entropy to split into another four! By then, it'll be Chaos that's cast as the "heroic" alignment, and Law/Order that'll tend to work towards the new "reversed" universe's extinction ... which will occur in the form of irreversible Stasis, not Entropic disorder. Indeed, this might account for why the so-called Nightmare Dimension seems so strange to Mystarans: it's a whole other multiverse (!), but one in which the Entropic Spheres of Matter, Thought, Energy, and Time are in control, and Stasis is working against them. This would explain why the diaboli follow a reversed system of alignment (Chaos = Good, Law = Evil), and why their magic (powered by the Entropic version of Energy) and Mystara's are totally incompatible. So Entropy actually does have a logical place in Mystara's multiverse, just as chaos and antimatter have an important place in our own world's physics. If any Sphere can be considered superfluous from a physicist's perspective, IMHO, it's Thought: you can have a universe with no sentient inhabitants; our own certainly didn't have any, for a very long time. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 11:51:22 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Nithia >Someone like to help me clear something up? :) When the Immortals >punished Nithia, did they just cause the fall of the empire only or did >they also wipe its name from history and memory? I have always thought >they made the name Nithia unrecognizable but some that I've read only >gave the impression that it fell without known reasons (to Mystarians). >I'm working on something for Karameikos and would like to get this >cleared up before I continue. Thanks! The Immortals not only engineered the collapse of the Nithian Empire, but they also wiped out all memory of its existence, language, and so forth from Mystara. While a few Nithian ruins and archaeological traces survived, they had to be excavated and re-interpreted, for any of the lost information to be recovered; a lot of those relics may have been erroneously ascribed to Thothians, also. AFAIK, Mystaran scholars know that there used to be a big civilization in the Alasiyan Basin, but they aren't aware of how far-flung the Nithian Empire used to be, at its height. The cause of its collapse is also a mystery to Mystarans. I believe somebody recently mentioned, on this mailing list, that "Nithia" probably wasn't even the real name of the Empire: it's just what archaeologists of the present era like to call it. Kind of like how lots of Mesopotamian ruins IRL bear the Arabic names of modern villages they're located near, because nobody knows what the original inhabitants called the sites. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 11:55:56 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Nithia In canon it was completely wiped from memory. But I find that rather restrictive personally...my take is that it was so utterly destroyed, that indeed, no modern country has any clear recollection of the great magical empire. But there are rumors here and there...and a clever party could come up with the hypothesis, along with the occassional fragment that mentions "the Empire of Nithia..." Tim wrote: > > Someone like to help me clear something up? :) When the Immortals > punished Nithia, did they just cause the fall of the empire only or did > they also wipe its name from history and memory? I have always thought > they made the name Nithia unrecognizable but some that I've read only > gave the impression that it fell without known reasons (to Mystarians). > I'm working on something for Karameikos and would like to get this > cleared up before I continue. Thanks! > > -- > Timothy R. Haney > galwylin@airnet.net > > The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ > Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 17:19:55 -0000 From: "Edward Phillips" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - New Religion (LONG) Eek, but what about all these people who don't have the books half of these spells appear in? :-( - -----Original Message----- From: Arminath@aol.com To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM Date: 07 February 1999 21:13 Subject: [MYSTARA] - New Religion (LONG) >My Mystara campaign has taken a dark twist this past weekend. The dozen brave >heroes and adventurers entering the famed Tomb of the legendary Arch-mage >Acererak had returned, with 9 of their number lost, with a chilling tale of >horror and defeat. The demon demilich fed off the souls of their fallen >companions and used the soul energy he'd collected over the centuries to >empower himself and propel him into the ranks of the Immortals. Among the >survivors all had been marked for life by the physical and mental stresses >Acererak put them through. One of them had been infected with vampirism, but >retained control until the hapless group came face to face with the Devourer. >It bent the poor character's will as the wind parts grass and humbled the >other heroes as it acsended the mortal world and joined the ranks of the >Immortals. Now the vampire is in the process of establishing the first center >of worship to Acererak the Devourer in the Malpheggi Swamp. > >Specialty Priests of the Devourer (Devourers) > >Requirements: Constitution 12, Intelligence 14, Wisdom 14 >Prime Requisite: Wisdom >Alignment: Chaotic Evil >Weapons Allowed: All Blunt (type B) weapons, daggers, scimitars, scourges and >scythes >Armor Allowed: Hide armor, leather, studded leather and shields >Major Spheres: All, astral, chaos, divination, healing (rev), necromantic, >summoning, > time >Minor Spheres: Charm, creation (rev), healing, protection, sun (rev), wards >Magical Items: Same as clerics, plus those allowed specifically to >necromancers >Required Proficiencies: Astrology >Bonus Proficiencies: Necrology, netherworld knowledge >1) Devourers can command undead, commanding triple the normal number of >skeletons and zombies. >2) Devourers are resistant to negative energy attacks (such as energy draining >and ability draining), gaining a +3 bonus to saving throws against these >attacks. If the attack offers no saving throw, the priest may make a special >save to resist the attack, succeeding if they roll a 17 or higher on a d20. >3) Devourers are very resistant to the rotting diseases that various undead >creatures possess. They gain a +3 bonus to any saving throws against diseased >and withering attack forms, such as mummy rot or the attack of a Staff of >Withering. If the attack offers no saving throw, the priest may make a >special save to resist the attack, succeeding if they roll a 17 or higher on a >d20. >4) Devourers are able to make an Undead Servant (as the 1st level wizard >spell) once per day. >5) At 3rd level, devourers are able to cast Rain of Blood (as the 2nd level >wizard spell) once per week. >6) At 5th level, devourers are able to cast Manyjaws (as the 3rd level wizard >spell) once per week. >7) At 5th level, devourers gain the ability to speak with any type of >intelligent undead creature. The does not make the undead more disposed >towards conversing, just grants the priest the ability to. >8) At 7th level devourers gain the ability to gate in tanar'ri once per month >for lasting 1 round per level: > % Roll Type > 01-10 Alu-fiend (1d2) > 11-20 Bar-lgura (1d2) > 21-30 Cambion, Major (1d2) > 31-58 Dretch (1d3) > 59-71 Manes (1d3) > 72-96 Rutterkin (1d3) > 97-00 Succubus (1d2) >9) At 9th level, devourers are able to cast Time Pool (as the 5th level priest >spell). >10) At 12th level, devourers become immune to mental control and emotional >influence caused by undead, such as a vampire's charm attack. >11) At 15th level, devourers are able to absorb the spirits of newly deceased >creatures. If the priest performs a small defiling ceremony requiring 5 >rounds to the body within 1 turn of the creature's demise, the soul recieves a >saving throw versus death magic at the creature's former level. If failed, >the priest is filled with a surge of life energy, temporarily gaining the >following benefits: > A +1 bonus to natural Strength and Constitution scores for 1 turn per hit >dice of the creature, up to the priest's racial maximum. > The priest is healed of 1 hit point of damage per hit dice of the >creature. > If the creature was at least 10 hit dice, the life energy may be used to >restore 1 level of energy draining on anyone the priest touches within 2 >rounds instead of the above benefits. > Each time this absorbing ability is used, the priest must succeed a >system shock roll or age 1 year due to the supernatural strain. Creatures >that are devoured are irrevocably lost and may not be brought back by any >means, mortal or divine. If a soul resists the priest successfully, it >departs for it's afterlife. > >Jim >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 11:23:24 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Nithia Daly wrote: > > In canon it was completely wiped from memory. But I find that rather > restrictive personally...my take is that it was so utterly destroyed, > that indeed, no modern country has any clear recollection of the great > magical empire. But there are rumors here and there...and a clever > party could come up with the hypothesis, along with the occassional > fragment that mentions "the Empire of Nithia..." Its hard to comprehend. I'm trying to imagine our view of the world if we didn't have a memory of Rome :) - -- Timothy R. Haney galwylin@airnet.net The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 17:21:42 -0000 From: "Edward Phillips" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Hello !!! This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0117_01BE5387.7ECFF1C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well I don't have any to swop, a water leak destroyed my entire = collection, and I am desperately trying to rebuild. So if anybody has any Gazeteers or adventures they would be willing to = sell just e-Mail edward.phillips@virgin.net WOTL & Night howlers especially wanted. -----Original Message----- From: Hoddie To: D&D Mailing List Date: 08 February 1999 01:39 Subject: [MYSTARA] - Hello !!! =20 =20 I have recently rekindled an interest in an old hobby of mine: = Dungeons and Dragons. I began reading through the Poor Wizard's Almanac = Series a couple of nights ago and remembered why I stopped playing it. = It was because they transformed it into an AD&D gameworld which I = couldn't be bothered learning about. =20 To cut a long story short, I wondered what info is on the internet = about the original D&D series and found this very impressive site: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/ which no doubt is familiar to all of you. =20 I am very impressed by all the work which is continuing and hope to = become more involved myself in the near future. I have started by = contacting old gaming mates and we have all agreed to reconvene and = arrange a session. Can't wait. =20 I have several duplicate D&D titles (after buying a few people's = collections over the years) and will be willing to SWAP, not SELL, these = titles for others that I don't have. =20 My duplicates: =20 TM2: Trail Map - The Eastern Countries Pretty rare I believe. =20 AC11: The Book of Wondrous Inventions Absolute classic but I always found it hard to incorporate. =20 B12: Queen's Harvest Took ages to complete the first time around, but quite good. =20 X7: The War Rafts of Kron Never manages to finish due to all the PCs dying off !! We found it = very hard. =20 M5: Talons of Night Opened but unused. All tokens, etc. intact. Never managed to play. =20 AC9: The original Creature Catalog I always thought this was better than the new one for some reason. = Probably sentimental ! =20 X2: Castle Amber (Ch=E2teau d' Amberville) Simply brilliant, down to the gremlins and the absolutely mad = dungeon. =20 PC1: Tall Tales of the Wee Folk We tried and disliked. =20 All titles, except for X2, are in near-perfect condition. X2 is in a = terrible state but I believe it is all there. As I said, it is an = absolutely brilliant module and well worth a play. =20 If you are interested in any of the above, please E-Mail me off the = list (address at the bottom) - no need to clog everyone's mailboxes up. =20 I'll let you know how our reunion got on ! =20 Paul Holroyd Halifax, England =20 E-Mail: pjh@ephtl.demon.co.uk Website: http://www.ephtl.demon.co.uk/ephtl/index.htm ICQ num: 16569347 - ------=_NextPart_000_0117_01BE5387.7ECFF1C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Well I don't have any to swop, a = water leak=20 destroyed my entire collection, and I am desperately trying to=20 rebuild.
 
So if anybody has any Gazeteers or adventures they = would be=20 willing to sell just e-Mail edward.phillips@virgin.net=
 
WOTL & Night howlers especially=20 wanted.
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 Hoddie <pjh@ephtl.demon.co.uk>
To:=20 D&D Mailing List <mystara-l@MPGN.COM>
Date:= =20 08 February 1999 01:39
Subject: [MYSTARA] - Hello=20 !!!

I have recently rekindled = an interest=20 in an old hobby of mine: Dungeons and Dragons. I began reading = through the=20 Poor Wizard's Almanac Series a couple of nights ago and remembered = why I=20 stopped playing it. It was because they transformed it into an = AD&D=20 gameworld which I couldn't be bothered learning about.
 
To cut a long story = short, I wondered=20 what info is on the internet about the original D&D series and = found=20 this very impressive site:
http://www.geocities.= com/TimesSquare/5304/
which no doubt is familiar to all of = you.
 
I am very impressed by = all the work=20 which is continuing and hope to become more involved myself in the = near=20 future. I have started by contacting old gaming mates and we have = all agreed=20 to reconvene and arrange a session. Can't wait.
 
I have several duplicate = D&D=20 titles (after buying a few people's collections over the years) and = will be=20 willing to SWAP, not SELL, these titles for others that I don't=20 have.
 
My = duplicates:
 
TM2: Trail Map - The = Eastern=20 Countries
Pretty rare I = believe.
 
AC11: The Book of = Wondrous=20 Inventions
Absolute classic but I = always found=20 it hard to incorporate.
 
B12: Queen's = Harvest
Took ages to complete the = first time=20 around, but quite good.
 
X7: The War Rafts of=20 Kron
Never manages to finish = due to all=20 the PCs dying off !! We found it very hard.
 
M5: Talons of = Night
Opened but unused. All = tokens, etc.=20 intact. Never managed to play.
 
AC9: The original = Creature=20 Catalog
I always thought this was = better than=20 the new one for some reason. Probably sentimental !
 
X2: Castle Amber = (Château d'=20 Amberville)
Simply brilliant, down to = the=20 gremlins and the absolutely mad dungeon.
 
PC1: Tall Tales of the = Wee=20 Folk
We tried and = disliked.
 
All titles, except for = X2, are in=20 near-perfect condition. X2 is in a terrible state but I believe it = is all=20 there. As I said, it is an absolutely brilliant module and well = worth a=20 play.
 
If you are interested in = any of the=20 above, please E-Mail me off the list (address at the bottom) - no = need to=20 clog everyone's mailboxes up.
 
I'll let you know how our = reunion got=20 on !
 
Paul Holroyd
Halifax, = England
 
E-Mail: = pjh@ephtl.demon.co.uk
Websit= e: http://www.ephtl.de= mon.co.uk/ephtl/index.htm
ICQ=20 num: 16569347
- ------=_NextPart_000_0117_01BE5387.7ECFF1C0-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 11:32:18 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates Sharon Dornhoff wrote: > > So Entropy actually does have a logical place in Mystara's multiverse, just > as chaos and antimatter have an important place in our own world's physics. > If any Sphere can be considered superfluous from a physicist's perspective, > IMHO, it's Thought: you can have a universe with no sentient inhabitants; > our own certainly didn't have any, for a very long time. That's interesting. I was playing around with the Immortals last night trying to see which sphere is more prominent in the nations' religion and found that the sphere of Thought wins. The others are present but Thought is usually double any other sphere according to what I could peice together. And many times, it is represented more than all the others together. - -- Timothy R. Haney galwylin@airnet.net The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 11:21:48 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Nithia Sharon Dornhoff wrote: > > The Immortals not only engineered the collapse of the Nithian Empire, but > they also wiped out all memory of its existence, language, and so forth > from Mystara. While a few Nithian ruins and archaeological traces > survived, they had to be excavated and re-interpreted, for any of the lost > information to be recovered; a lot of those relics may have been > erroneously ascribed to Thothians, also. AFAIK, Mystaran scholars know > that there used to be a big civilization in the Alasiyan Basin, but they > aren't aware of how far-flung the Nithian Empire used to be, at its height. > The cause of its collapse is also a mystery to Mystarans. So, this is like finding an ancient city in your backyard? You see the remains but there's no record of it ever existing or how it came to be there. Any thoughts on how this would affect decendents from Nithia? If they remembered coming from Nithia that is (after 2000 years, I doubt the Traldars would really maintain that connection, especially when written records weren't used). > I believe somebody recently mentioned, on this mailing list, that "Nithia" > probably wasn't even the real name of the Empire: it's just what > archaeologists of the present era like to call it. Kind of like how lots > of Mesopotamian ruins IRL bear the Arabic names of modern villages they're > located near, because nobody knows what the original inhabitants called the > sites. I think that was Jenn. Anyone come up with some ideas of its true name (or name given it by Mystarians if Nithia is the true name)? - -- Timothy R. Haney galwylin@airnet.net The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 13:33:13 -0500 From: Andrew Toth Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates At 01:03 AM 2/8/99 -0600, you wrote: >Andrew Toth wrote: >> >> Life, isn't chaotic, it just appears that way. Nothing happens for >> no reason.(Though poor reasons abound) All death is actually doing >> is making the order simpler and easier to grasp. One could say >> that there is no such thing as chaos, just apparent chaos, where >> one can not grasp the pattern. > >Well, I believe life is chaotic. There's no answer for what the purpose >of life is, for example. Something without purpose would seem to be >chaotic to me. I may find a purpose for my life and you for yours but >there is no single purpose for both of us. But death has a single >purpose. To end life. I realize it is subjective but it could well be >that order doesn't exist. What we call order is just a speed bump on >the way to entropy. > How can you say there no purpose to life? You can say you don't know what is. I could say that I don't there what it is. But I don't think one can say that such doesn't exist because of ignorance of such. Beyowulf Steely Blue Dragon -==UDIC==- |/ "Ours is not to reason why, but to blow this joint before we die" -Ratrap, BeastWars *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:25:52 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - New Religion (LONG) In a message dated 2/8/99 12:33:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, edward.phillips@virgin.net writes: << Eek, but what about all these people who don't have the books half of these spells appear in? :-( >> Which spells don't you have access to? I can email them to you (or post them on teh list if enough people want them). Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 13:42:48 -0500 From: Andrew Toth Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals At 11:32 PM 2/7/99 PST, you wrote: >The Rainbow Bridge could potentially make the Sylvan >>Realm the most powerful nation on Mystara.... > >The elves could rule the world if the wanted to anyway >without the help of a rainbow bridge. >Picture this. >Two armies faace each other on the field of battle. >Suddenly every member of the elven armies starts chanting >and waving their arms. *POOF* All of the sudden you have >half of the opposing army charmed into thinking that they're >fighting for the wrong side, or asleep, or blinded for a >few minutes, or whatever. Unless you have alot of mages >with alot of dispell or similar spells it's goign to be cake >for the elves to take out any KW army except for maybe >Glantri and Alphatia. >That's my take on things anyway. > Hmm..methinks it would depend on the relative strenght of the individuals in the elven army. 0th level Fighter/Mages wouldn't couldn't do a whole lot methinks. If you just had high level elven adventurers in your army, you'd probably have a pretty small army, and you'd probably be overwhelmed. Sleep might work, but I can't see charm working, at least not at long range, and all it would do is make the target loyal to caster, not the elven army, and in melee, it'd probably ware off pretty fast, as because of all the saving-throws for putting one's life in danger. Beyowulf Steely Blue Dragon -==UDIC==- |/ "Ours is not to reason why, but to blow this joint before we die" -Ratrap, BeastWars *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #61 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, February 8 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 062 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates Re: [MYSTARA] - Nithia RE: [MYSTARA] - New Religion (LONG) [MYSTARA] - Almanac 1015 Re: [MYSTARA] - Nithia Re: [MYSTARA] - Nithia [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Question RE: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates: Philosophical symposium Re: [MYSTARA] - New Religion (LONG) Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Question Re: [MYSTARA] - Nithia Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Question Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Tomb of horrors Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions on Alphatia and Thyatis Re: [MYSTARA] - WotI ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 12:40:49 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates Andrew Toth wrote: > > How can you say there no purpose to life? You can say you don't know > what is. I could say that I don't there what it is. But I don't think > one can say that such doesn't exist because of ignorance of such. The same way I can say I don't believe in faster than light travel. Maybe it will be possible one day but not today. But I don't assume it is possible just because it might be in the future. We'll just have to wait and see. So, maybe there is a purpose to life but not that we know of. We don't have the answers and its entirely possible they don't exist. - -- Timothy R. Haney galwylin@airnet.net The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 13:58:38 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Nithia Oooh! Good analogy. Perhaps it might even be better to think of the theoretical "IndoEurAsian" tribe from which we all sprang. We are led to believe in these people solely through a study of linguistics...iirc... Tim wrote: > > Daly wrote: > > > > In canon it was completely wiped from memory. But I find that rather > > restrictive personally...my take is that it was so utterly destroyed, > > that indeed, no modern country has any clear recollection of the great > > magical empire. But there are rumors here and there...and a clever > > party could come up with the hypothesis, along with the occassional > > fragment that mentions "the Empire of Nithia..." > > Its hard to comprehend. I'm trying to imagine our view of the world if > we didn't have a memory of Rome :) > > -- > Timothy R. Haney > galwylin@airnet.net > > The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ > Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 14:25:12 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - New Religion (LONG) On Mon, 8 Feb 1999, Murphy Jason wrote: > Where is the "Children of the Immortals" campaign detailed. Is it an > AD&D or OD&D campaign. It is probably just my ignorance, but i have never > heard of it? It's given about 3 paragraphs in the WoTI box. (D&D) Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 19:36:01 GMT From: Doug Weller Subject: [MYSTARA] - Almanac 1015 Sorry to repost this, but my daughter's nagging me about it! Is there any way I can get this as just 1 file to download? Thanks. Doug - -- Doug Weller Moderator, sci.archaeology.moderated Submissions to:sci-archaeology-moderated@medieval.org Doug's Archaeology Page: http://www.ramtops.demon.co.uk Co-owner UK-Schools mailing list: email me for details *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 13:49:10 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Nithia Daly wrote: > > Oooh! Good analogy. Perhaps it might even be better to think of the > theoretical "IndoEurAsian" tribe from which we all sprang. We are led > to believe in these people solely through a study of > linguistics...iirc... Stonehenge also seems to fit the Nithia analogy well: a ruin left by a people we have little to no information about. But if we try to imagine Rome being wiped from our memory, think of how it trickles down through history. Many of our laws in the USA have their origins in Rome. That's what made me interested in how Nithia was handled. If all record was erased, how does that affect the off-shoots of Nithia. Obviously, not everything was erased or Thothia would have been drastically altered. That's how come I was questioning if I had misunderstood something. Did they completely rewrite history instead of just erasing Nithia and if so, did the Traldar clan believe it was Thothia they came from (again assuming they would connect their ancestry that far back)? - -- Timothy R. Haney galwylin@airnet.net The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 14:55:48 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Nithia Galwylin wrote: >So, this is like finding an ancient city in your backyard? You see the >remains but there's no record of it ever existing or how it came to be >there. Any thoughts on how this would affect decendents from Nithia? >If they remembered coming from Nithia that is (after 2000 years, I doubt >the Traldars would really maintain that connection, especially when >written records weren't used). They would probably have some vague legends of a great cataclysm, war, or other nasty event that destroyed their ancestral homeland - "wherever that was". This of course assumes that they even remember what they once were. The Magian Fire-Worshippers from GAZ 2, for example, might not remember anything of Nithia due to their proximity to that artifact buried in the sands near where they live that erases all knowledge of it. The Thothians may remember being part of an ancient empire of some sort, but they may think that they revolted against its wickedness, and it was punished by the Immortals for straying from the right path. In the end, it's your choice. >I think that was Jenn. Anyone come up with some ideas of its true name >(or name given it by Mystarians if Nithia is the true name)? Maybe, since it was located in the Alasiyan Basin, Mystaran scholars call it "The Alasiyan Empire" (for modern convenience), or "Old Alasiya". Maybe, if they draw the connections between the remaining ruins and Thothia, they call it "Greater Thothia", or the "Thothian Empire"? Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 15:11:11 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Question I've recently been studying the Blackmoor and Mystara timeline and I have a glaring question: The planet's axis changed when Blackmoor blew up and put Blackmoor (which was to the best of my knowledge near the equator) at one of the poles. Now, since the polar openings that existed at that time would have been moved to the equatoral region and Blackmoor to a polar region, obviously the Immortals changed things so the polar openings are at the poles again, so what happened to the ruins of Blackmoor? Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 12:17:11 PST From: "Giggles P." Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals > Here here. Those uppity, holier than thou elves needed a kick in the >arse. I dont know why but i have never been partial to elves as a character >class, possibly because most games i have played with, that played elves >were power hungry munchkins that only chose them because they saw them as >fighters with spells. And the the Alfheim gaz really home there superior >attitudes over us mere hu-mans. All IMO of course. > Then of course the Shadow elves seem to have the "weve been so hard >done by" chip on there shoulder. But i still think they are preferable to >Alfheim elves. They seem to have that whole "working class" feel to them. :) > Jason why is it that everyone has it in for the elves? I'll agree with you that alot of the people that play elves just do it for their minmaxing potential, but why all the animosity towards them as a nation and a people? If Glantri had been overrun by humanoids would anyone but me on this list say "those uppity wizards had it coming"? The shadowy brethern of the much hated surface race, however seem to be much loved and admired by the members of this list. Now I don't have either the elf or the shadow gaz so I'm just going off what I've heard, but didn't the shadow elves attack Alfheim a few hundred years back when the surface elves said that they wouldn't let the shadow elves into Canolbarth but they would agree to talk about it? Didn't the shadow elves answer by invading Alfheim and Darokin? Have the shadow elves ever been anything but the agressor? Can anyone give me a reason why the MMLers seem to prefer the shadow elves and their dying twisted Aegmore to the surface elves and their living beautiful forest? Giggles "I am the Lorax , I speak for the trees" Theodore Seuse Giesel ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 14:30:59 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals "Giggles P." wrote: > > Can anyone give me a reason why the MMLers seem to prefer the shadow > elves and their dying twisted Aegmore to the surface elves and their > living beautiful forest? Well, not all of us :) Timothy R. Haney, shadow elf detractor galwylin@airnet.net The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 14:33:09 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates: Philosophical symposium > > life over death, and harmony (Law) over discord (Chaos). > > In the old D&D alignment way of doing things, every > > member of the sphere of Entropy would be labelled as > > "Chaotic" > > A few points. Good sometimes doesn't have a bit of concern for law. > They can be just as interested in chaos as evil. And... > I've been reading the current philosophical dialogue on entropy and the definitions of the alignments with interest. Thouse who've been subjected to my opinions on alignment know that I am at the point where I think the alignment system should be removed from the game as anachronistic and poorly defined. Anyhow, I now feel the need to weigh in on some of this, at least in how it relates to the game world. Some of this is going to be on-topic in direct or indirect response to what others have already written, and some of this will just touch on related matters that haven't arrisen yet. > > Not true. Chaotic is not considered Evil in the D&D game system. > This, strictly speaking, is imprecise. In the begining all the villians that the heros were encouraged to sword down without remource were chaotics, and Law was defined virtue. In the original 3 volumes of Dungeons & Dragons, the definitions of "Law" and "Chaos" were identified with "Good" and "Evil". In an article reprinted in Best of the Dragon (vol.1, p.26) Gygax wrote that "When that [the original D&D] was written they meant just about the same thing in my mind," though he goes on to say they were not synonymous. In that article, in fact, I think the first appearance of "Good" and "Evil" as separate, distinct alignments showed up, the crude beginings of what would become the AD&D (though not the D&D) alignment system. At the time (the late 70s) Subjective relitavism had replaced the previous model of moral virtue, but people still understood what the meaning of nobility, justice, and honor were. Thus, though in our every day lives people acted according to the new mores, in a fantasy (RPG, D&D) they could continue to play act under the old rules (I bring this up in connections to arguments about the "subjectivity" of the alignments: in the old days, alignments were *not* fungible. They were meant to create an objective model/ideal). Unfortunately the oldest rulebook I still have available (my Basic rulebook with the blue cover Dragon was "liberated" by folks with a "subjective standard of morality" over a decade ago, and I never owned any older versions. but I digress) is the 1981 "Red" Basic set. Page B11 sets out short descriptions of the alignments. The last sentance under "Law" states "Lawful behavior is usually the same behavior that could be called 'good'." Under "Chaos" the last sentance states "Chaotic behavior is usually the same behavior that could be called 'evil'." This basic division held for most of the game's history, though with growing disatisfaction from thouse who wanted to play self-centered, selfish characters without adopting the label "evil." Throughout the period, all the "bad guys," the creatures and characters that the noble heros were encouraged to sword down without remourse, were given the "Chaotic" alignment. The sharp break came with the publishing of DotE, whereby the Alphatians were (explicitly) aligned with Chaos (like the Melnebonians who inspired them), and the Thyatians (by implication) with Law. But the designers were reluctant to identify the revered Alphatians with "Evil," and even less interested in portraying the Thyatians as "Good" (which would have been hard to justify in any case, given the backround developed thus far). So the alignments underwent a "revision," and redefinition (which shows up in the definitions used in the Rules Cyclopedia on page 10. Note that the definitions, except for a slight modification of the last sentance under "Chaos," remain almost identical to the ones in the 1981 "Basic" set). Alignments are important, if they are at all, in providing a modivation for the "bad guys" and a reason for the "good guys" to oppose the villians. If everything is a matter of subjective opinion, then the in game slaughter becomes as purposeful as a DOOM deathmatch. Fun, but nihilistic. In an RPG, there ought to be something more than that. I, myself, am not opposed to the current alignment system because I think in-game truth and virtue should be fungible and subjective, but because I think the entire OD&D & AD&D alignment system is deficient in expressing what it was intended to express: it fails in its own purpose, as evidinced precisely by the multiple interpretations anyone can ascribe to the 3 (or 9) alignments. And also because I believe it is more important to play a well developed character's personality than it is to play the lable that is put on that character. While I believe there should be objective, commonly accepted definitions of what constitutes honorable, virtuous, trustworthy, orderly, nefarious, scheming, mischievious, or kind (&tc) behavior in the game, I also believe it is possible, even likely, that a character (PC or NPC) might exemplify some traits that could be defined as "Good," some as "Lawful," some as "Chaotic," etc. and that it is more important for the character to be played within that personality than it is for the character to maintain a "consistent" alignment (this is obviously more important for PCs and for significant recurring NPCs than it is for Orc Guards and other chance encounters). > Spheres, the need of Immortals belonging to one of those spheres... so I > think that Entropy should be understood as a physical principle, linked to > the Second Law of Thermodinamics. So, it is a NATURAL sphere and does not > In AD&D "Entropy" would be connected to the Negative Material Plain and to Pandemonium, the Abyss, and Limbo. Not typically your "warm fuzzy vacation places." Remember also that Entropy is *not* a synonym for change. The best association that can be made regarding Entropy is with Shumpeter's theory of "Creative Destruction." Most entropy, especially social entropy, is hard on thouse who experience it. Entropy is as nessisary to the cosmos as evil. Entropy made its first (IIRC) appearance in the Master's ruleset. On page 11 of the DM's Book it is stated that "The four other spheres of power oppose Entropy but recognize its importance in the functioning of each of the other spheres." In practice, Entropy became the stopping-off point of the worst sort of Chaotics, the most "malevolent" and "wicked" of them, if you will. The other "constructive" Spheres competed among themselves, but they opposed Entropy with a special fervour. There was a recognition of complexity (Entropy was not *explicity* associated with evil), but Entropics generally filled the same role at the "Master" and "Immortal" level of play as "Chaotics" did at the Basic and Expert level: NPC "bad guys" to be fought and opposed by the heros. I recognize that as new social attitudes reflecting the primacy of self-centered narcissism and deprication of standards ("no rules," "no boundaries", etc ad campaigns etc) strengthen at the expense of previous mores prioritizing civic spirit and concern for the welfair of others, the alignment system will undergo if not redefinition, then re-evaluation as people identify traits in "scorned" alignments that they now find admirable. This is most clearly seen in AD&D (since, unlike D&D, it is still a "living game system"). Early on, Lawful Good was implicitly the "best" alignment, and it was generally recognized as the "goodest of the good," though players would often play Neutral Good or Chaotic Good characters because they felt it would be too difficult to live up to the standards of Lawful Good. After the publication of the Forgotten Realms and the rising prominence of Elminster as an icon, with the spread of Greenwood's perspective (and social change in mores already alluded to), this began to shift. Now, if you look at publications of the last several years (FR, but especially Plainscape), you will see a growing regard for Chaos (identified with liberation and freedom from restraints), while Lawful Good is often implied to be as opressive (and thus as "bad") as Evil (see especially stuff relating to the Harmonium, et al, but that's only one example among many). "Chaotic Good" is now the default "Best, Goodest" alignment, and a new respect for Chaotic Neutral is growing (as late as the publication of the 2nd edition, CN was associated most strongly with insanity. Now its associated most strongly with the admirable Simbul). Note: What is "best" in a game of heroic fantasy is not nessisarily a reflection of real life philosophy any more than flying dragons are a reflection of real life aerodynamics. I don't (ok, I do, but it would be inappropriate) want to get into a bull session on the list about the merits of various IRL philosophical perspectives in real life. What is important is what functions best in a game setting. In my opinion, what functions best are objective standards of behavior, at least in D&D & AD&D (which doesn't mean that the various nations should all be assigned alignments, etc. Please try to recognize nuance. Even folks who advocate "Black and White" morality can make subtle arguments). Nor am I arguing that all players should be paragons of virtue. But it should be recognized that, at least for the purpose of a game in a "heroic fantasy" setting, there is such a thing as virtue, and it has a definition, and some are better than others in living up to its ideals, and that for the most part Chaotics and Entropics are its antithisis. Note also that I'm not saying it is "wrong" to play evil characters, or even evil characters who don't think of themselves as evil (as most shouldn't). Doing that can be fun. But I do think it is important that the player (as opposed to the character) and DM know the difference. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 20:37:35 -0000 From: "Edward Phillips" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - New Religion (LONG) This bit 4) Devourers are able to make an Undead Servant (as the 1st level wizard spell) once per day. 5) At 3rd level, devourers are able to cast Rain of Blood (as the 2nd level wizard spell) once per week. 6) At 5th level, devourers are able to cast Manyjaws (as the 3rd level wizard spell) once per week. 9) At 9th level, devourers are able to cast Time Pool (as the 5th level priest spell). Also what chance has the gate of opening and are all the demons equally appearing? - -----Original Message----- From: Arminath@aol.com To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM Date: 08 February 1999 18:28 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - New Religion (LONG) >In a message dated 2/8/99 12:33:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, >edward.phillips@virgin.net writes: > ><< Eek, but what about all these people who don't have the books half of these > spells appear in? :-( >> > >Which spells don't you have access to? I can email them to you (or post them >on teh list if enough people want them). > >Jim >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 14:38:40 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Question Arminath@aol.com wrote: > > I've recently been studying the Blackmoor and Mystara timeline and I have a > glaring question: The planet's axis changed when Blackmoor blew up and put > Blackmoor (which was to the best of my knowledge near the equator) at one of > the poles. Now, since the polar openings that existed at that time would have > been moved to the equatoral region and Blackmoor to a polar region, obviously > the Immortals changed things so the polar openings are at the poles again, so > what happened to the ruins of Blackmoor? My idea on Blackmoor is that there are no ruins (maybe some slag). I'm going with the thought the land masses of former Alphatia, Isle of Dawn, and Bellissaria are the remains of the 'Blackmoor' continent. It just completely blew up breaking those masses apart. You have to admit, any explosion powerful enough to shift a planet isn't going to leave much at the site of the blast :) - -- Timothy R. Haney galwylin@airnet.net The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 14:40:25 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Nithia Geoff Gander wrote: > > Maybe, since it was located in the Alasiyan Basin, Mystaran scholars call > it "The Alasiyan Empire" (for modern convenience), or "Old Alasiya". > Maybe, if they draw the connections between the remaining ruins and > Thothia, they call it "Greater Thothia", or the "Thothian Empire"? The Alasiyan Empire... I like that :) - -- Timothy R. Haney galwylin@airnet.net The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 20:41:24 -0000 From: "Edward Phillips" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Question My best guess is that it still exists? somewhere north of Frosthaven just waiting for an intreid band of explorers to find it. Bur how did the RoS & the comeback Inn move SO FAR from home??? - -----Original Message----- From: Arminath@aol.com To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM Date: 08 February 1999 20:14 Subject: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Question >I've recently been studying the Blackmoor and Mystara timeline and I have a >glaring question: The planet's axis changed when Blackmoor blew up and put >Blackmoor (which was to the best of my knowledge near the equator) at one of >the poles. Now, since the polar openings that existed at that time would have >been moved to the equatoral region and Blackmoor to a polar region, obviously >the Immortals changed things so the polar openings are at the poles again, so >what happened to the ruins of Blackmoor? > >Jim >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 20:42:51 -0000 From: "Edward Phillips" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals We are all twisted an evil at heart??? :-) I must admit to viewing the both of them with equal disdain. Long live the Empreror!, You shall all in time be Thyatis!!! - -----Original Message----- From: Tim To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM Date: 08 February 1999 20:34 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals >"Giggles P." wrote: >> >> Can anyone give me a reason why the MMLers seem to prefer the shadow >> elves and their dying twisted Aegmore to the surface elves and their >> living beautiful forest? > >Well, not all of us :) > >Timothy R. Haney, shadow elf detractor >galwylin@airnet.net > >The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ >Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 16:00:20 -0500 From: "Brian K Deuberry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tomb of horrors Thanks! I'm sure the'll groan when they figure out what there about to do. I personally don't like all fighting or all thinking but a balance of the two is the goal. So I'm glad to hear that it's more balanced. That will prol'y be enough for me to grab it. Thanks again. BK - -----Original Message----- From: EzJ25@aol.com To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM Date: Friday, February 05, 1999 4:38 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tomb of horrors >In a message dated 2/5/99 6:32:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, bkis1@in- >motion.net writes: > ><< So I guess I will not be getting Return to the Tome of Horrors any time > soon. Unless someone on this list tells me that it's worth it and my > players would finish it(based on the above info). >> > >It has alot of stuff besides thinking. Lotys of fighting undead and giants in >the beginning, going through the original Tomb is required though, but by that >point you're only half way through the story! It was a great buy for my >group, and I recommend it if your players can think as well as sword and >spellsling! > >J >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 16:05:06 -0500 From: "Brian K Deuberry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE > >Also, there are many more Mystaran players out there! So I just keep >telling them to join the list, and/or hassle TSR (politely) to restore >Mystara... > >-Jonathan What's the current plan on hassling TSR? Do we have a plan as a group? Or does everyone just do it in their own little ways? I would be glad to contribute my voice to the cause. BK *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 16:10:48 -0500 From: "Brian K Deuberry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions on Alphatia and Thyatis I really got the feeling that they had been conquered so many times by one side or the other that they really just accept each other as neighbors. Who knows what country your going to belong to next? Best to be kind to thy possible future country man. That's they way I play it anyways. Good luck on your campaign. BK - -----Original Message----- From: Nurvel@aol.com To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM Date: Saturday, February 06, 1999 12:14 AM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Questions on Alphatia and Thyatis >How would Thyatians treat Alphatians in their lands during the time of the >Gazeteers, and vise versa? I'm getting ready to start a campaign and i need >to know these things. It is going to be based in The Isle of Dawn. i know >that these people sort of live together but I dont know how they would act >towards each other, maybe like Thyatians and Traladarans? > >Thank you very much...to everyone that helps >Nurvel >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 16:23:16 -0500 From: "Brian K Deuberry" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - WotI >---Markus Olavi Montola wrote: >> >> >> About the WotI. Everyone who has seen Babylon-5 knows why the series >is >> so much (IMO!) better than all the Star Treks together. It is the >element >> of l o n g change and evolving plotline -- in the Trek (or Donald >Duck) >> the every episode begins from nothing and ends to nothing. Same goes >to >> many RPG campaigns in 'official' worlds. People are afraid to use >their >> imagination by plunging Middle-Earth or Krynn into another global >series >> of events -- a war, decline of magic, anything. >> >> WotI _OFFERS_A_CHANCE_ to do just that in Mystara, giving updated >maps to >> reflect the war, updated info... But no-one *has* to use WotI. The >PWA:s >> are completely adaptable into 1010 with no WotI. You just have to >add the >> politics section for Alfatian Empire. > >I can only say that I couldn't agree more. The WotI plotline shouldn't >be compared >to a normal adventure campaign, but works best as a background story >that once in a while >affects the PCs' lives while they go about having all sorts of other >unrelated adventures. >And as was pointed out, of course you only include the parts you like >to happen IYC. > >(I also agree about B5 beating ST by a mile :) > >Just my 2 coppers > >David I have to agree that as a background story it's excellent. It makes the world more real. That events happen that have (seemingly) nothing to do with there lives. But the mission have all required major re works. BK PS ST kills B5 although B5 is a very good show.IMO *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #62 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, February 9 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 063 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Penhaligion Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Question Re: [MYSTARA] - Nithia Re: [MYSTARA] - New Religion (LONG) Re: [MYSTARA] - Nithia RE: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals [MYSTARA] - Re: Almanac 1015 Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Question Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE Re: [MYSTARA] - Nithia Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara [MYSTARA] - More from the Heretic Re: [MYSTARA] - Nithia Re: [MYSTARA] - More from the Heretic Re: [MYSTARA] - More from the Heretic Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE Re: [MYSTARA] - Nithia Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Question Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Almanac 1015 Re: [MYSTARA] - Question on Thyatians and Alphatians Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions on Alphatia and Thyatis ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 12:27:51 -0500 From: Sean Curtin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara Arminath@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 2/1/99 2:26:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, eand@WPI.EDU > writes: > > > > Hate to tell you, but the Maximum Level for Humans in AD&D is 30. > > > Period. > > > Except if you're Elminster. > > His official stats are listed as Thief 11/Mage 26. He's also got some levels as a fighter and a priestess (yes, priestESS). And he's got all psionic wild talents. And he has spellfire. And he's a Chosen of Mystra. Not that he's overpowered or anything. Sean Curtin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 15:19:48 -0500 From: Sean Curtin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Penhaligion paul dooley wrote: > >Did anyone see the new plans by TSR: Oerth is going to be the basic > >setting and Toril will be the world for "advanced" players. > > At the very least that`s got to be the wrong way round, Hasn`t it? > Please! By "advanced" they apparently mean "requires more money to play." Sean Curtin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 16:42:06 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Question >I've recently been studying the Blackmoor and Mystara timeline and I have a >glaring question: The planet's axis changed when Blackmoor blew up and put >Blackmoor (which was to the best of my knowledge near the equator) at one of >the poles. Now, since the polar openings that existed at that time would have >been moved to the equatoral region and Blackmoor to a polar region, obviously >the Immortals changed things so the polar openings are at the poles again, so >what happened to the ruins of Blackmoor? I've suggested before that part of the reason Ka made the new polar openings so immense, the second time around, might've been to remove most of the fallout-contaminated ruins from Mystara (and good riddance, too!). If that's the case, Blackmoor's remnants are wherever the Immortals put chunks of landscape they don't want to have around, anymore. The NoS was moved from Blackmoor (northern Skothar) to Glantri by the Old One who altered it. As for the Blackmoor Comeback Inn, it could've been moved by Ka when he created the northern polar opening (because it'd look pretty silly, hanging there in space with no ground underneath it!); or -- given all those weird magics that prevent ANYTHING from affecting it -- it could have stayed at the same exact location relative to Mystara's center, while the rest of the planet rotated beneath it. (How the doorway into the Pits of Banishment wound up in the Broken Lands is also a tricky thing to explain, BTW; anyone got ideas for that one...?) For a real GRoF-related puzzler, here's one I thought Geoff might want to think about for his Selhomarr project: If Mystara's axis shifted during Blackmoor's demise, does that mean the INSIDE of the planet got skewed, also? If so, did the Hollow World used to have one-day "seasons", since the internal sun shines a bit cooler in the (present-day) arctic and montane/equatorial zones, and hotter in the "tropic bands" on either side of the World's Spine? Try applying the same "skew" to the HW global map, as is shown on the pre-Blackmoor map for the outer world -- but without rotating the inner sun's several climate-zones -- and I think you'll see what I mean. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 16:52:37 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Nithia >So, this is like finding an ancient city in your backyard? You see the >remains but there's no record of it ever existing or how it came to be >there. Any thoughts on how this would affect decendents from Nithia? >If they remembered coming from Nithia that is (after 2000 years, I doubt >the Traldars would really maintain that connection, especially when >written records weren't used). Presumably, the Immortals did their best to "fill in the blanks" in their various followers' histories, so as to eliminate knowledge of Nithia (and serve their own purposes, in the process). For example, the "Song of Halav" replaced any memories of their Nithian roots which the Traladarans might have retained, after the gnollish invasion ... a legend/tradition which Halav & Co. inculcated, and which helps maintain their status as patron deities of that culture, even as it covers up the big gap in Mystaran history. It might be interesting to picture how a novice Immortal, from post-Nithian times, might react to learning just how important Nithia used to be, once he/she attains Immortality and becomes eligible to retain such knowledge. It's bound to be quite an ego-killer for, say, a stuck-up Thyatian to learn that those "grubby desert rats" from the Alasiyan Basin used to rule a region much larger than Thyatis at its height! >> I believe somebody recently mentioned, on this mailing list, that "Nithia" >> probably wasn't even the real name of the Empire: it's just what >> archaeologists of the present era like to call it. Kind of like how lots >> of Mesopotamian ruins IRL bear the Arabic names of modern villages they're >> located near, because nobody knows what the original inhabitants called the >> sites. > >I think that was Jenn. Anyone come up with some ideas of its true name >(or name given it by Mystarians if Nithia is the true name)? I think Mystarans today call it Nithia; that's why there's an Emirate of Nithia in modern Ylaruam. You'd have to go to the Hollow World, to find out what the Nithians call themselves ... although as soon as you translate their words into Common Thyatian or another modern language, you're back to calling it "Nithia" again! :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 17:20:14 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - New Religion (LONG) In a message dated 2/8/99 3:40:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, edward.phillips@virgin.net writes: << This bit 4) Devourers are able to make an Undead Servant (as the 1st level wizard spell) once per day. 5) At 3rd level, devourers are able to cast Rain of Blood (as the 2nd level wizard spell) once per week. 6) At 5th level, devourers are able to cast Manyjaws (as the 3rd level wizard spell) once per week. 9) At 9th level, devourers are able to cast Time Pool (as the 5th level priest spell). Also what chance has the gate of opening and are all the demons equally appearing? >> Ok, I'll post the spells later in the week (either Tues or Wed). As for your question of the Gate ability, it only functions 1 per month. When it is activated, the chance of something gating in is 100%. The type of Tanar'ri Gating in is determined by the percentile roll and the number of that type appearing is in parenthesis. Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 18:00:26 -0500 From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Nithia I agree...and I wonder often if there are things that descend to us from ancient unknown civilizations which we are totally unaware of! That's why I figure, for the most part, that Nithia is a complete unknown...but possible to discover...know what I mean? Tim wrote: > Daly wrote: > > > > Oooh! Good analogy. Perhaps it might even be better to think of the > > theoretical "IndoEurAsian" tribe from which we all sprang. We are led > > to believe in these people solely through a study of > > linguistics...iirc... > > Stonehenge also seems to fit the Nithia analogy well: a ruin left by a > people we have little to no information about. But if we try to imagine > Rome being wiped from our memory, think of how it trickles down through > history. Many of our laws in the USA have their origins in Rome. > That's what made me interested in how Nithia was handled. If all record > was erased, how does that affect the off-shoots of Nithia. Obviously, > not everything was erased or Thothia would have been drastically > altered. That's how come I was questioning if I had misunderstood > something. Did they completely rewrite history instead of just erasing > Nithia and if so, did the Traldar clan believe it was Thothia they came > from (again assuming they would connect their ancestry that far back)? > > -- > Timothy R. Haney > galwylin@airnet.net > > The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ > Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 01:25:43 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals > The shadowy brethern of the much hated surface race, however > seem to be much loved and admired by the members of this list. Yes. The Shadow Elves are one of the most remarkable 'new' things only seen on Mystara. The Gaz is great work, they offer endless source of moral debate. They offer a great plot to play with Darokin, Alfheim, Glantri and forces of Thar, and a great way of exploring and discovering the Hollow World and the Atzcan Empire. The struggle for Oenkmar is beautiful in all its sorrow. In addition to the great opportunity to play on Rafiel's side, there is also the way I use the Shadow Elves. I call my current phase of campaign as "The Coming of Shadow Elves". A city four times as large as the Glantri City, just beneath nothing, is a first-class jawdropper. > Now I don't have either the elf or the shadow gaz so I'm just > going off what I've heard, but didn't the shadow elves attack > Alfheim a few hundred years back when the surface elves said > that they wouldn't let the shadow elves into Canolbarth but > they would agree to talk about it? Didn't the shadow elves > answer by invading Alfheim and Darokin? Have the shadow elves > ever been anything but the agressor? Read the gaz. It is in the Net. See their perspective. Think it over. If you are puzzled, then, you know why I find the book really great. > Can anyone give me a reason why the MMLers seem to prefer the shadow > elves and their dying twisted Aegmore to the surface elves and their > living beautiful forest? Alfheim is stasis, and ravaging it with sudden strike is a great twist to a campaign. - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 10:25:37 +1100 From: stan Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Almanac 1015 >Sorry to repost this, but my daughter's nagging me about it! > >Is there any way I can get this as just 1 file to download? >Thanks. You can download a copy from the Net-Almanac website, directly at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/9037/1015doc.zip stan http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 15:54:39 -0800 From: Dave Keyser Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Question Sharon Dornhoff wrote: > > > For a real GRoF-related puzzler, here's one I thought Geoff might want to > think about for his Selhomarr project: If Mystara's axis shifted during > Blackmoor's demise, does that mean the INSIDE of the planet got skewed, > also? If so, did the Hollow World used to have one-day "seasons", since > the internal sun shines a bit cooler in the (present-day) arctic and > montane/equatorial zones, and hotter in the "tropic bands" on either side > of the World's Spine? Try applying the same "skew" to the HW global map, > as is shown on the pre-Blackmoor map for the outer world -- but without > rotating the inner sun's several climate-zones -- and I think you'll see > what I mean. > > That just gave me some inspiration...What if the tilting on the axis wasn'tthe whole planet shifting, but instead was the outer crust rotating along the World Shield? Granted, the World Shield isn't a frictionless surface, but perhaps the energies involved(pseudo science warning) with the explosion caused the WS to generate enough force to counter it(it already generates gravity). This keeps the Hollow World safe. One could then further extrapolate that the WS somehow redistributed the blow so that the axis shift was gradual, occuring over a few years. This could solve the problem of why everything wasn't hurled off the planet upon a sudden shift. Dave Keyser *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 18:50:04 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin Turner Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE On Mon, 8 Feb 1999, Brian K Deuberry wrote: > > > >Also, there are many more Mystaran players out there! So I just keep > >telling them to join the list, and/or hassle TSR (politely) to restore > >Mystara... > > > >-Jonathan > > > What's the current plan on hassling TSR? Do we have a plan as a group? Or > does everyone just do it in their own little ways? > > I would be glad to contribute my voice to the cause. > > BK > Hear, Hear! Put me down for a group to hassle TSR about reviving Mystara. I like that idea. - --Frobozz-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 01:09:16 +0100 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?=" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Nithia I really like the "canon" version of Nithia's Memory being wiped out from the memory of Mystarans by Immortal action; it reminds me of some RW Christian legends on God making the Egyptians gods and kings be forgotten, their script unreadable (as forgetfulness is the worst fate possible to an Old Egyptian and, by connection IMC, Nithian). I also like the idea of Nithia not being the "true name" of the Empire for two reasons: a) there is an Ylari Emirate of Nithia, as someone else pointed out. b) HW Nithians, who were bathed in a dim oblivion of their former history, also use the name Nithia. So, I would dare use some Egyptian words to compose a name: take TA "Land" UTHEST "throne" NEHEHTY "Eternal" TA-UTHEST-NEHEHTY This would be the "Land of the Eternal Throne", quite a fitting title for the conquering and hieratic Nithians. When the Empire fell and its memory was lost, the term fragmented: Thothians renounced to that Eternity thing and got to be named TA-UTHEST, "Land of the Throne", which, as language developed, became THOTHIA. The other part of the name only survived as a linguistic remainder in languages evolved from of connected to NIthian, and evolved into NITHIA. The words means "Eternal", but it also alludes to "The Beyond", so the Immortals played a kind of joke with HW Nithians; they were the "People of the Beyond, the Underworld". BTW, I think (IMC it has happened) that after the increasing HW travel from the KW, some good Mystaran scholars may be ready to decypher the Nithian ruins all over the land. Andrés *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 18:47:03 -0600 From: anowack@juno.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara >He's also got some levels as a fighter and a priestess (yes, >priestESS). How'd he manage that? Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/5930/ ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 19:22:22 -0600 From: Tim Subject: [MYSTARA] - More from the Heretic This has occurred to me while talking about Nithia... The Immortals have tampered with Mystarian history again and no one knows it! If you've read Joshuan's Almanac, you should notice in the Current Events section that there's not any mention of the Hollow World except that its a hoax. Why is this? Obviously the Immortals have altered Mystara so that knowledge of the Hollow World is no longer considered fact. Or, perhaps it was the Old Ones themselves. I've wondered what was special about WotI to make their involvement warranted. My conclusion is that the Old Ones have long been irritated in the involvement of the Immortals in mortal affairs especially 'preserving' whole cultures (which could be causing an altered mortal history). The sinking of Alphatia was the final straw. The whole Hollow World was judged to be detrimental to the natural course. So the Old Ones removed it from mortal knowledge and sealed the polar openings (and other small ones). Well, this is all my opinion and colored by the fact that I don't like that the outer world is allowed contact with the Hollow World. The Karameikan Expedition was now an investigation of the poles in which those that entered the Hollow World are thought to have died. I also figured that the Old Ones have removed the Spell of Preservation and erased all knowledge of the outer world (so they now have the natural progress of two worlds to watch). Well, that's all from this heretic :) - -- Timothy R. Haney galwylin@airnet.net The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 19:41:19 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Nithia Andrés Piquer Otero wrote: > > So, I would dare use some Egyptian words to compose a name: > > take TA "Land" > UTHEST "throne" > NEHEHTY "Eternal" > > TA-UTHEST-NEHEHTY This is really some good thought. Just out of curiosity, is there an Egyptian translation dictionary available online? :) - -- Timothy R. Haney galwylin@airnet.net The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 19:43:25 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - More from the Heretic > except that its a hoax. Why is this? Obviously the Immortals have > altered Mystara so that knowledge of the Hollow World is no longer > considered fact. Or, perhaps it was the Old Ones themselves. > Or they could've just turned into lazy designers who wanted to cut their workload in half, and so erased the HW all together. 8-)~ > I've wondered what was special about WotI to make their involvement > warranted. My conclusion is that the Old Ones have long been irritated > in the involvement of the Immortals in mortal affairs especially > 'preserving' whole cultures (which could be causing an altered mortal > history). The sinking of Alphatia was the final straw. > Thus perhaps the Old Ones simply filled in Mystara turning it into a "normal" world, and as for the HW cultures, well. . . .("kerpliewie" comes to mind). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 19:56:27 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - More from the Heretic James Ruhland wrote: > > Or they could've just turned into lazy designers who wanted to cut their > workload in half, and so erased the HW all together. 8-)~ Heh. Well anything is possible. But they did seem to go out of their way to downplay it (as well as Blackmoor's tech). Like any true heretic, I fine with that ;) > Thus perhaps the Old Ones simply filled in Mystara turning it into a > "normal" world, and as for the HW cultures, well. . . .("kerpliewie" comes > to mind). I can't even get it to come to my tongue... - -- Timothy R. Haney galwylin@airnet.net The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 13:32:18 +1100 (EST) From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE > On Mon, 8 Feb 1999, Brian K Deuberry wrote: > > > > > >Also, there are many more Mystaran players out there! So I just keep > > >telling them to join the list, and/or hassle TSR (politely) to restore > > >Mystara... > > > > > >-Jonathan > > > > What's the current plan on hassling TSR? Do we have a plan as a group? Or > > does everyone just do it in their own little ways? > > > > I would be glad to contribute my voice to the cause. > > > > BK > > > Hear, Hear! Put me down for a group to hassle TSR about reviving > Mystara. I like that idea. > > --Frobozz-- > Well, my personal super-villain masterplan type plot is to create free-for-download netbooks of large size and detail, then send them all to the mirthless ToSseRs and say, "here ya go, we've done all the work, bring this out as a large Odyssey boxed set. We dare ya." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 13:36:27 +1100 (EST) From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Nithia Not to be a bugbear about Meroitic/Demotic/"Ancient Egyptian", but we wouldn't know what the vowels were in the given words in most cases... Also we know that the Nithian name of the Threshold ruined city was "Amen-Tyris", and there are a few other words from the actual language in the same CD track of the Karameikos boxed set. This is canonical, and sounds cool enough. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 21:45:24 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Question Sharon wrote: >I've suggested before that part of the reason Ka made the new polar >openings so immense, the second time around, might've been to remove most >of the fallout-contaminated ruins from Mystara (and good riddance, too!). >If that's the case, Blackmoor's remnants are wherever the Immortals put >chunks of landscape they don't want to have around, anymore. That's a good point. Another place Blackmoor could have gone (& this is what happened IMC), is that when the new polar openings were created, the inner and outer crusts were bent towards each other to create the lip of each opening (check out the HW boxed set, the northern tip of Skothar actually pokes into the HW). Thus, Blackmoor, frozen under hundreds of feet of ice, lies in the dark regions between the outer and hollow worlds - - a fitting place for it to lie where no one can find it, as it lies within the anti-magic zone. :) >For a real GRoF-related puzzler, here's one I thought Geoff might want to >think about for his Selhomarr project: If Mystara's axis shifted during >Blackmoor's demise, does that mean the INSIDE of the planet got skewed, >also? If so, did the Hollow World used to have one-day "seasons", since >the internal sun shines a bit cooler in the (present-day) arctic and >montane/equatorial zones, and hotter in the "tropic bands" on either side >of the World's Spine? Try applying the same "skew" to the HW global map, >as is shown on the pre-Blackmoor map for the outer world -- but without >rotating the inner sun's several climate-zones -- and I think you'll see >what I mean. I've pondered this as well, when I was planning out the Selhomarr Gaz waaaay long ago. I determined privately that the Hollow World was protected by Ka & co. by temporarily detaching it from the outer world along the World Shield splice line. That is, for a brief time there were two separate, freely moving spheres, one within the other. This did not protect the HW from all the damage, of course (Selhomarrian records would have accounts of massive tidal waves, earthquakes, etc.), but it was sufficient for the task. Afterwards, new outer polar openings were created, and the old ones sealed. The two spheres were then rejoined properly (ie: caves conected them once more, lava flowed, etc.) I figured the Immortals had a vested interest in protecting the HW from such a shock as much as possible, and I think this strategy I outlined would have been well within their powers. You know, I'm surprised that TSR didn't even consider this situation... I originally tried to sketch out what the original pre-WotI layout of the HW might have looked like if it had shifted along with the outer world, but that was too painful to look at, stylistically speaking. IMO, my theory offers a quick, no-fuss method of doing it. Dave Keyser's idea works well, too. Any thoughts? Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 06:56:24 GMT From: Doug Weller Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Almanac 1015 On Tue, 09 Feb 1999 10:25:37 +1100 stan wrote: > >Sorry to repost this, but my daughter's nagging me about it! > > > >Is there any way I can get this as just 1 file to download? > >Thanks. > > You can download a copy from the Net-Almanac website, directly > at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/9037/1015doc.zip > Thanks. I had seen this on another site (my daughter didn't know which site it was on), and hadn't found the Net-Almanac website. Doug - -- Doug Weller Moderator, sci.archaeology.moderated Submissions to:sci-archaeology-moderated@medieval.org Doug's Archaeology Page: http://www.ramtops.demon.co.uk Co-owner UK-Schools mailing list: email me for details *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 02:15:25 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Question on Thyatians and Alphatians Thanks.....I didnt miss it just accidentally posted this twice........ Nurvel In a message dated 2/8/99 7:31:39 AM Central Standard Time, jdaly@friend.ly.net writes: << You might have missed my response...the treatment would be somewhat similar to Americans in the Ussr or the Soviets in America. The cases would be rare, and certainly Thyatians would be suspicious of an Alphatian in their midst, and vice versa, but I don't think either would be exactly "banned". >> *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 02:16:57 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions on Alphatia and Thyatis In a message dated 2/8/99 9:33:30 AM Central Standard Time, BoBoII@aol.com writes: << Cartago delenda est! Alphatia delendo Est!! >> And this means? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #63 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, February 9 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 064 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions on Alphatia and Thyatis Re: [MYSTARA] - Isle of Dawn Re: [MYSTARA] - Isle of Dawn Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals RE: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE Re: [MYSTARA] - Isle of Dawn Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions on Alphatia and Thyatis [MYSTARA] - Spell: Missile of Slaying [MYSTARA] - Clan of Ellerovyn, part 1 Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Question Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions on Alphatia and Thyatis Re: [MYSTARA] - Isle of Dawn [MYSTARA] - grimoire on the web (fwd) [MYSTARA] - OD&D Mystara Tome of Spellcraft Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D Mystara Tome of Spellcraft [MYSTARA] - Power and gaming (a bit long.. but not much) [MYSTARA] - The Skin Trade (Part 2) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 02:16:33 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions on Alphatia and Thyatis In a message dated 2/8/99 7:37:03 AM Central Standard Time, jdaly@friend.ly.net writes: << Exactly my point! There would be crossovers, and individuals could certainly get along well. I doubt either would be banned from entering the other's territory, but the general nature of each toward the other would be distrust and suspicion. >> Would a Thyatian be treated like a servant or a freeman if he/she were visiting Alphatia? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 02:18:31 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Isle of Dawn In a message dated 2/8/99 9:34:57 AM Central Standard Time, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no writes: << Thothia on the Isle of Dawn(IoD) was originally a Nithian colony. However, when the Nithians were corrupted, the Thothians did not turn to worshipping Entropy, which is the reason why they were left alone and not destroyed like the Nithians. Thothian culture has obviously changed during the last 1500 years. It shows similarities to the origian nithian culture, but is also dominated by a form of Mysticism, that IIRC was developed around the time when Nithia was corrupted. Håvard >> Another question.....Was the whole Island colonized by Nithia? And do you know where there is more info on this mysticism? Thanks Nurvel *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 02:20:36 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Isle of Dawn In a message dated 2/8/99 10:29:32 AM Central Standard Time, dornhoff@bio.umass.edu writes: << If you follow the premise of module M5: "Talons of Night", the Thothians have also been manipulated by the planar spiders of Aran, a ruined city from which the aranea race originated. About 20 generations ago, a Thothian Pharaoh was seduced by Aketheti -- a powerful "daughter"/servant of the Immortal Night Spider (aka Arachnae Prime) -- and he and his descendents have been keeping the Thothians off the Great Escarpment (arachnid territory), ever since. Much of the mysticism of modern Thothia has a spider motif to it as a result, although most humans are unaware of the Night Spider's existence or machinations. >> Does anyone have any text regarding these issues on their page...????? Thanks for the help *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 09:01:57 +0100 (MET) From: Agathokles Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals On Mon, 8 Feb 1999, Tim wrote: > "Giggles P." wrote: > > > > Can anyone give me a reason why the MMLers seem to prefer the shadow > > elves and their dying twisted Aegmore to the surface elves and their > > living beautiful forest? > > Well, not all of us :) > > Timothy R. Haney, shadow elf detractor Living or dying, no forest will ever match the great halls of Dengar! Giampaolo Agosta, dwarf supporter :) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 09:06:30 +0100 From: Kristian Kramer Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE Put me down as a hassler too! Let'g go get'em > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian K Deuberry [SMTP:bkis1@in-motion.net] > Sent: Monday, February 08, 1999 10:05 PM > To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE > > > > >Also, there are many more Mystaran players out there! So I just keep > >telling them to join the list, and/or hassle TSR (politely) to restore > >Mystara... > > > >-Jonathan > > > What's the current plan on hassling TSR? Do we have a plan as a group? > Or > does everyone just do it in their own little ways? > > I would be glad to contribute my voice to the cause. > > BK > > ************************************************************************** > * > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the > line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 08:10:02 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Isle of Dawn > Håvard >> >Another question.....Was the whole Island colonized by Nithia? And do you >know where there is more info on this mysticism? Well, the Alfheim gaz shows the extent of the Nithian empire in 1000BC, and it shows four Nithian colonies on the Isle of Dawn. As they still had another 500 years before Nithia was destroyed, that doesnt mean they didnt settle the entire island at some point. Talons of Night is the adventure that details Thothia, IIRC there is at least some info in there. Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 08:12:05 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE >Well, my personal super-villain masterplan type plot is to create >free-for-download netbooks of large size and detail, then send them all to >the mirthless ToSseRs and say, "here ya go, we've done all the work, bring >this out as a large Odyssey boxed set. We dare ya." > Lol. Now that would be cool :) Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 20:00:46 +1100 (EST) From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions on Alphatia and Thyatis Carthage must be destroyed must be destroyed *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 05:35:57 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Spell: Missile of Slaying Tell me what you all think of this spell I just whipped up tonight. Missile of Slaying 9th Level Wizard Spell Invocation/Evocation Range: 10 Yards/level Components: V,S Duration: Permanent Casting Time: 9 Area of Effect: 1 creature Saving Throw: Neg./Special In essence, this spell functions similiar to the magical item arrow of slaying. The caster causes a magical arrow to project from in front of him to the target as if fired from the bow of a fighter of the same level as the wizard. There are no modifiers for range, non-proficiency, or specialization used, and the arrow has no attack bonus. If the caster successfully hits the target, target is slain or killed if he/she/it fails a saving throw vs. spell. The saving throw for this spell is modified by the level of the caster and the level of the target (for monsters use hit dice instead). For every three levels, rounding down, the caster is over the target (and vice versa), the saving throw is modified by a -1. For example, if the wizard is 19th level and the target is 5th level, then the modifier would be -4. But if the target were a creature with 22 hit dice and the caster were the same, then the modifier would actually be a +1. The wizard must know the exact nature of the target casted upon, i.e. caster must know class for a pc or npc or creature name for a monster. For example, if this spell is cast at a fighter, then the wizard must know that this character, regardless of race, is a fighter, or if cast at a beholder, caster must basically know that it is a beholder (DM may require caster to know about the creature as well). DM should limit what creatures that can be affected by this spell according to their individual liking. Note, if this spell is used for OD&D, then use this according to OD&D rules, such as if a missle of slaying were cast at an elf, the wizard would just have to know that the target were and elf, but if the target was actually a shadow elf, then caster would have to know that for the spell to function. Created by Nurvel, Mike Novy 2/9/99 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 12:47:19 +0200 (EET) From: Harri M{ki Subject: [MYSTARA] - Clan of Ellerovyn, part 1 Here is the first part of the history of the clan of Ellerovyn. Split in Alfheim In AC 700 old king Celedryl had died in Alfheim. There was two prominent contender for the throne: Doriath and Charan, both former advisors of king Celedryl and both from the Erewan clan. Their own clan was evenly divided between their supporters, but among other clans Doriath was looked more favourably because of his more neutral attitude to different clans. So the result was a defeat for Charan. At first it seemed that he would accept the decision. He however bear a grudge not against Doriath but against the other clans who had refused to support him. His pride couldn't stand to stay in Alfheim as a "might-have-been-a-king". He search a place to go. At last he thought about the Highlands behind the Broken Lands. There were already elves, although not like the elves in Alfheim, but elves anyhow and they might need help fighting against humans in the area. Charan informed closest friends and relatives about his decision to go there. He was greatly surprised when they all said that they would come with him. At the end nearly all of his Erewan supporters left with him. It took nearly ten years for them all to get there with all the planning and fighting on the way. They left Alfheim at the fall of 700 and then they stayed over 2 years in the area of Corunglain before they made their first attempt in summer 703. They get through only at their third attempt in summer 709 and arrived to forests of Belcadiz-elves at the winter of 709-710. First Years In Highlands Those ten years changed Charan somewhat. He looked older than his 168 years would assume, he was more matured, determined and he was more modest, although his pride wouldn't have allowed him to recall the trip during the harsh years in Darokin. Charan contacted immediately Don Manuel de Belcadiz, leader of the local elves and acknowledged his authority and asked a permission to settle amongst his elves. The alliance between two elven clan was seal in AC 712 when Don Manuel's eldest son Don Fernando married Charan's younger sister Charlena. Two young elves had fell in love immediately after their first meeting two years earlier, but it had taken some time to convince the leaders of the desirability of this marriage. Charan had immediately liked don Fernando and his father, but there were other elves at both side who needed persuasion. Don Fernando's younger brother don Alfonso was one who they couldn't persuade to accept the marriage. Also for some reason both Charan and don Alfonso immediately disliked each other. At the same year Don Manuel and Charan decided that the area was too crowded for both elven groups. Don Manuel proposed that the Erewan elves would move to the woods between Vesubia and Red River were there was living only a few Flaemish woodcutters. Unfortunately Don Manuel didn't even thought about asking the Flaems what was their opinion. Immediately after the Erewan elves had moved there, the Flaemish lords declared that the truce was broken and began raiding again. Brunt of the raids were targeted towards the Belcadiz elves and in AC 717 Don Manuel fell defending newly established city of New Alvar. Skirmishing between the elves and the Flaemish continued for the 13 years. Erewans also get their part of raids but whereas Belcadiz-elves retaliated, Erewans usually only harassed the Flaems when they were returning and not followed them to their areas. Coming of the settlers from the Alasiayan land in 730 was a lucky strike for the elves. Charan realised immediately their value and supported Don Fernando against the other elven leaders, when Don Fernando had promised settlers a safe route through the elven lands. All skirmishes with the Flaems ended. During the next 56 years there was a peace in Erewan lands. There were some humanoid raids from Broken Lands, but nothing serious. Like Don Fernando Charan also refused to take any part in wars amongst humans. During those years there were build tower of Ellerovyn in AC 754 and town of Erendyl in AC 766. Harri Mäki hihama@uta.fi *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 12:07:57 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Question On Mon, 8 Feb 1999, Tim wrote: > My idea on Blackmoor is that there are no ruins (maybe some slag). I'm > going with the thought the land masses of former Alphatia, Isle of Dawn, > and Bellissaria are the remains of the 'Blackmoor' continent. It just > completely blew up breaking those masses apart. You have to admit, any > explosion powerful enough to shift a planet isn't going to leave much at > the site of the blast :) IMO Whatever remains of Blackmoor is deep below the icelands of northern Skotia. However, Blackmoor colonies might be discovered anywhere on Mystara. There is, for instance a Blackmoor city just south of Alfheim... Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 06:47:59 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions on Alphatia and Thyatis My feeling is that it would depend entirely (from the Alphatian point of view) on whether the Thyatian was a spellcaster or not. If not, then he is likely to be dismissed out of hand, scorned, and treated like horse dung. If he is, then he is likely to receive similar respect as any other spellcaster. Now, this is just in terms of respect. When one confronts a dragon, one does not treat him as a servant. Know what I mean? Recognizing a Thyatian spellcaster as one of the noble class, does not mean the Alphatians will trust him. Nurvel@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 2/8/99 7:37:03 AM Central Standard Time, > jdaly@friend.ly.net writes: > > << Exactly my point! There would be crossovers, and individuals could > certainly get along well. I doubt either would be banned from entering > the other's territory, but the general nature of each toward the other > would be distrust and suspicion. >> > Would a Thyatian be treated like a servant or a freeman if he/she were > visiting Alphatia? > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 06:51:11 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Isle of Dawn Much of the island was colonized...whether it was all or not is hard to say. I think opinion differs on that. One of the old master level modules, Talons of Night, has the party caught between Thyatis and Alphatia trying to achieve peace at a summit in Helskir. The heroes have to race across the Isle of Dawn searching for an ancient artifact that will encourage peace... Its a good module, and it goes into great detail about the Immortal spider ruler and the mysticism...and Edairo... Nurvel@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 2/8/99 9:34:57 AM Central Standard Time, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no > writes: > > << Thothia on the Isle of Dawn(IoD) was originally a Nithian colony. However, > when the Nithians were corrupted, the Thothians did not turn to > worshipping Entropy, which is the reason why they were left alone and not > destroyed like the Nithians. Thothian culture has obviously changed during > the last 1500 years. It shows similarities to the origian nithian culture, > but is also dominated by a form of Mysticism, that IIRC was developed > around the time when Nithia was corrupted. > > Håvard >> > Another question.....Was the whole Island colonized by Nithia? And do you > know where there is more info on this mysticism? > > Thanks > Nurvel > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 22:45:37 +1100 (EST) From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" Subject: [MYSTARA] - grimoire on the web (fwd) Re: MYSTARA GRIMOIRE It's at http://www.physics.adelaide.edu.au/~ksimpson/netbooks.html I had to do some re-formatting to make it a bit easier to read - let me know if you object and I can just put it up as is.... v1.1 now up... 66 pages so far. includes levels 1 - 10 wizard spells, levels 1 - 8 priest spells, wizard and priest NPC thumbnail sketches. v1.2 now under construction, still need everyone's input. Council of Wyrms / Dragonmagic mystara netbook now under construction too, all contributions needed/welcome..! semper mystara *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 08:06:50 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - OD&D Mystara Tome of Spellcraft Unless someone has already done this, I want to assemble a netbook of OD&D spells. Some good ideas are tossed around here and a few other places I haunt and I think it'd be a cool thing if us OD&D'ers had a resource of the magical arts to draw from for our villans and characters. Magic of all types will be readily accepted (clerical, druidical, magical). And on the chance that someone has already done an OD&D Netbook of Spells, then send me the address so I can get it! Arminath - Arminath@aol.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 00:45:30 +1100 (EST) From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D Mystara Tome of Spellcraft The address for the Mystara Grimoire is below. They aren't OD&D but that shouldn't make them too impossibly difficult to use... - -------------------------------------------------------------------- [AD&D Netbooks: www.physics.adelaide.edu.au/~ksimpson/netbooks.html] - -------------------------------------------------------------------- * * Jonathan Nolan FTIA - International Law practice call 618 89310176 * * - -------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 14:56:29 +0100 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Power and gaming (a bit long.. but not much) On Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:52:22 -0500 (EST), SteelAngel wrote: <> Hey, just to inform you, three of my players were actually able to finish FF7 AND to kill ALL FOUR WEAPONS!!!!! Now, can you realize against what kind of hardened players do my poor villains have to cope on Mystara? ;) A last example: during last adventure, my group (Master level) went against Alphaks and really pissed him off. Well, three of them died while one of them (a 32 lvl wizard) managed to SURVIVE a METEOR STORM cast by Alphaks...!!! By the by, how do u calculate the damage inflicted by an Immortal Meteor Storm, since the dices do not depend on the caster's level? Also, how many creatures can an Immortal try to Disintegrate at once with the same spell (WotI makes an example where 4 creatures are involved -it's in the Reduce ST spell section)? Also on the subject of AC, I never understood the AD&D rule that AC-10 is the maximum one could ever attain. OD&D has no maximum (and the Immortals show it), I think it's kind of silly saying "You cannot be more protected than that!". Heck, as long as you've got magic, you can do miracles! One of my PCs once arrived to AC -15 and he was basically invulnerable to 1-12 level characters. But the others stayed very far from him when adventuring, because they knew my tactic: "If I cannot get him using weapons, I'll get him using magic.." ;) On the AC thing, also think about this: true, if you stand still you've got AC 10 even if you're donning a complete suit +5, BUT you still must count the magical bonuses to calculate the AC, for magic creates a protective deflector field that functions always, even when you stand still or even if you can't see your opponent. This means that in the example above, the PC would then have AC5 (10-5). Now picture this: a mage with a headband of AC0, a ring of protection +5 and amulet of protection +4 has AC-9. Suppose he stands still and somebody tries to slay him: that would mean he had to hit AC -9 nevertheless! Or if the slayer creeped from behind and the mage couldn't hear him: the attacker would have a bonus for backstabbing, but the AC of the mage couldn't be penalized lower than AC -9 (normally I give a -4 penalty to AC in such cases), because of the above mentioned reason. The theory seems logical and linear, now my only problem is this: how could a petty 1st level thief ever dream of killing a mage in his sleep, cutting his throat, if he'd have to hit AC-9 even in that case (supposing he gets to sleep with all those protective items)? Am I misjudging somethin here? Last thing (I think), I don't remember where I read/heard this, but can you confirm that an Immortal, while on his homeplane, is treated like having DOUBLE his Hit Dices in terms of spell's effects? DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 14:57:43 +0100 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Skin Trade (Part 2) Hi there again! So, since it seems some of you actually like this little adventure I designed, here's the next installment. I'll go on releasing two parts each week until we reach the end of it, and in the meantime if you have questions or remarks to make, please let me know. Also, if you want to guess what's happening, please make your theory known on the list, I'll enjoy reading it very much. Anyway, now on with the adventure. This is still DAY 1, remember. DM - -- The Skin Trade, by Marco Dalmonte (PART 2) -- Willie Meets Armon If the PCs decide to contact Wilhelm afterwards (this happens if Antares informs them of his existence and of their talk or if Antares herself wants to see him again), they can go to his house (Antares knows where he lived, and she's lucky since he never moved). Once they arrive they see it's a huge run-down building (see "Feuerbach House" section for a better description) near other warehouses and that there is a large black coach waiting in a nearby alley. After a couple of minutes a door opens on the alleyway where the coach is waiting and three people exit: one is Willie, while the other two are an old elegant man with a walking cane and a tall man with dirty blonde hair and a clumsy walk. The old man is talking to Willie and pointing his cane at him: he seems irritated and used at giving orders to others expecting to be obeyed, but Willie doesn't seem intentioned to satisfy him. The other man suddenly leaps towards Willie and grabs him by the collar, lifting him from the pavement with ease. Willie seems very frightened and tries to free himself but at no avail. The PCs can try to intervene or simply go on watching: in the first case, the old man orders the younger and stronger one to drop Willie when he spots the PCs and then enters the carriage followed by the other one, ordering the driver to leave. In the second case, the same scene happens just a few minutes after, even without the PCs intervention. If the PCs approach Willie after the duo's departure and question him about them or about his real relationship with Giovanna Lizzieni, he backs away uttering something like: "Got much work to do now, we'll talk tomorrow!" and enters the house, closing and bolting the door behind him. No matter what the PCs will do, he won't open until they go away. They cannot do anything more here. DM's Notes Even though theorically the PCs couldn't enter Willie's house since he closed every possible means of entrance, the PCs are renowned for coming up with unexpected solutions and they could even manage to sneak into the building to confront Willie. If this happens, refer to Willie's behaviour in the section "Fright in the Night" below. Obviously, what he reveals at this point won't be repeated once the "Fright in the Night" events occur. NIGHT 1 Dinner Party It is recommended at this point that some of the male PCs have made the acquaintance of the Aretus twins (Cassandra and Angela) and have caught their attention during previous encounters while staying in town. Tonight, the two girls officially invite the two most attractive males of the party (or those who impressed them in the precedent days, anyway) to a dinner at their own house, maybe to repay them for some courtesy or simply to know them better. Early in the evening, a coach approaches Thuriman House and the Aretus's majordomo exits, delivering a scroll with an official invitation for the two PCs to Aretus Mansion. His master, Lord Aretus, has sent him to fetch the two guests and accompany them to the mansion. Even if the party has other plans for tonight (for example sneaking inside Lizzieni House or inside the Morgue), the two PCs should realize that this is an important opportunity to make a good impression on two good-looking and wealthy girls, and should thereby excuse themselves with the other friends and go to the dinner as requested. The DM is encouraged to use the majordomo, Ariovistus, to reinforce on the PC the feeling that a refusal won't please the two girls and will surely annoy their father, who is a most influent man inside the community. If the PCs go to the dinner, Cassandra and Angela show them great attentions, but each one in her own ways. Cassandra is more direct and sometimes even embarassing with her advances, while Angela remains more silent, acting gently and blushing with delight almost every time one of the PCs praises her. The PCs also meet Lord Augustus Aretus, who questions them about their careers and heritage. If the PCs somehow tell him that they are renowned adventurers (which might be true or not, depending on the campaign), or better that they have noble bloodlines, he immediately sympathizes with them, encouraging the two to spend more time with his daughters and trusting them as loyal "henchmen". If questioned about his job and status, Lord Aretus tells them that he is a wealthy merchant (he sells manufactured products throughout the country) and that he descends from a noble family which lost his lands due to machinations of the politicians of the country (in Darokin, this happened after the Great Merger which abolished feudal law inside the Republic). Sometime during the dinner (at about ten in the night), visitors arrive to Aretus Mansion and are warmly received by Lord Aretus and his daughters, who also introduce the PCs to the two newcomers. One is an aged but very elegant man with a noble gait and a piercing gaze holding a black walking cane with a wolf shaped golden head. The other one is a large man of indefinable age, his visage being that of a youth on the body of an adult. The most disturbing feature of this man is the expression of his face: watery grey eyes staring at nothing with a hardened expression betray an abnormal mind. The new guests are Johann and Stephan Armon, father and son (though the resemblance is tenuos at best), the last members of the most wealthy and prominent family of the town ever since the first settlers came to the region. The twins briefly talk about the PCs' virtues and deeds (if they mentioned any) clearly trying to impress the Armons. However, only the old man seems to take their words into consideration, while Stephan is completely lost in his thoughts (even though the PCs can notice that now he's staring directly at Angela with some sort of grin on his face). Johann Armon gives a swift gaze at the PCs and sketches a compliant smile, then excuses himself and enters another room together with Augustus Aretus to discuss "pressing matters", leaving the PCs and the twins with his son. Soon an embarassing silence envelops the room, but Cassandra breaks it by resuming the conversation with the PCs. Stephan would seem a flesh statue was it not for his eyes, which are always fixed on Angela following her wherever she moves. No matter what the PCs do or where they go, Stephan is always close to the girls staring at them in dumb silence: he doesn't speak unless addressed by the twins (and they have no intention of doing so). Some minutes after, the two old men return and Lord Aretus calls his daughters to the other corner of the room, where they have a quick private talk. Meanwhile, old Armon tries to know the PCs a bit better, with specific questions about the cause of their presence in town and about the other members of the party (if they mention them). The PCs can (if they deliberately state it) try to look at the dialogue among the Aretus to catch a few words (maybe more with a Lip Reading proficiency check). The twins seem particularly upset, and while Cassandra vehemently protests with his father, Angela remains silent, glancing a few times at Stephan in fear. After a while the Aretus return and Lord Aretus tells Armon that he is sorry but he has to decline his kind offer (he doesn't specify what kind of offer he made and if asked later by the PCs he tells them it was a "business deal"). Armon seems displeased and sorry at the same time, while his son's eyes for the first time betray an intense hatred (Int check), though it is difficult to know who or what caused it since he's staring again at the wall now. Johann Armon then accepts the decision and bids the Aretus and the PCs farewell, exiting the house followed by his son. If the PCs ask Lord Aretus or the twins about Armon, they only tell them that he's a very important person inside the town and they go on magnificating his virtues and intelligence without revealing anything more. If they ask the twins about Stephan, they tell them that he is completely loyal to his father and possesses the strength of a bear... but the brain of a small child. Apparently, he was born mentally weak and now lives in the shadow of his father. There is no future for the Armon family under Stephan's rule, and the old man knows it. For this reason Johann Armon has often tried to have Stephan marry one of the Aretus twins (Stephan seems to like Angela in particular), thus unifying the two houses, but the twins have always refused because Stephan scares them. If the PCs ask the twins about the "business proposal" Armon mentioned this evening, Cassandra (the one who normally speaks most) remains very vague, but in the end she says that it probably was a masked marriage proposal, without adding anything more. The topic is then considered closed. The evening passes smoothly after this event, and it should be clear for the PCs that the girls feel now very close to the two. The two should start thinking about an official engagement with two of the most pampered heiresses of the community. If the PCs don't go to the dinner, the Aretus family is really disappointed and cuts any further relationship with the party for this offense. Fright in the Night Right in the middle of the night, somebody starts battering on the door of Thuriman House. When the PCs try to find out who is the cause of this mayhem, they discover a naked and rather embarassed Willie, who pleads them to let him in and to take refuge inside the house, also asking for some kind of vestment. At this point, the PCs will inevitably question Antares regarding Willie, and if Antares has not told them anything yet, Willie agrees to reveal that he is the one who sought Antares's help in the Lizzieni case. When the PCs tell him Giovanna's fate, he turns pale and falls silent, clearly in distress for the young girl's death. If the PCs ask him about his relationship with the dead girl, he says that he knew her and felt some sympathy towards the unlucky Giovanna, but is reluctant to explain how he met her and what his real feelings were. If hard pressed (threatening to stop the investigations or to tell the guards about his involvement is sufficient, even though in the second case he starts mistrusting the party), he tells them the whole truth (almost): "I met her a couple of months ago. She had some problems because of a loan she had contracted in a period of extreme misfortune, and I had been sent to.. err.. well, to make sure she would pay. Hey, don't think bad now! I know this is not the best job in the world, but it's a job nonetheless. I ensure that those who make debts pay them, sooner or later. What's wrong with this, uh? Ah, forget it! "Well, believe it or not, I'm damn good at my job: my boss has never complained about my work, but this time.. err.. this time was one of those "life stinks" cases, ya know? The girl was a kind soul whose only error in life was to have asked a loan to the wrong person when she really needed it. She was on a wheelchair, she barely earned enough to support herself with her work, often helped by her "granny", as she called her... that's her neighbour. She burst into tears when I told her why I was there and pled me to give her some more time, so she would have sold something and repayed the debts. But what could she sell, really? Don't know if ya saw her house, but I understood at first glance that there was nothing valuable in that shack... except from herself... And so I took a decision, a rather drastic one I admit: I offered her to pay her debt with my money to help her a bit. She would have repayed me when luckier times would have come, I said, and she smiled and kissed me and we agreed. I fell in love with that smile, ya know ... "I visited her regularly during the week, always at evening both because of my working duties and because I wanted to keep my relationship secret... hey, I'm a shy guy, ya know? Anyway, we eventually became more than close friends, for she returned my love with joy and such a passion I had never experienced before. She was fond of me like nobody had ever been, and even if she knew what kind of man I was, she loved me anyway. We had great plans in mind: once spared enough money, we would have moved to the capital and seeked out somebody who could cure her paralyzed legs, a priest or a magician maybe, and then we would have traveled the world... But life stinks, I bet ya know it, and these proved to be easy dreams difficult to carry out. I tried to spare enough, I really tried hard, but it was never enough, especially since I owe a big part of my income to my boss.. But we never lost hope.. until yesterday morning..." Willie has nothing more to say about his love affair with Giovanna, or better nothing more he wants the party to know. If asked why he has come naked in the middle of the night to Antares's house (which will probably be the first thing the PCs ask), he tells the party that he has been harassed in his house. He was sleeping in his bed when he heard some noises in the hallway outside his chamber. Being a very cautious and prudent man he always locks his door from the inside, and this time it proved useful, since whoever (or whatever) was outside the room, once understood the door was locked, he tried to smash it. This gave Willie just the time to jump through the closed window and run for his life towards Antares's house. Willie never saw who was on the other side the door and frankly he doesn't regret it. If the PCs propose to return to the house to see if the intruder is still there, Willie seems really frightened, but will accept nonetheless if the whole party accompanies him and above all if the party seems powerful enough to handle an unknown menace. Whether they return to the house during the night or the day after, they won't find anyone inside. Refer to the description of "Feuerbach House" given below for more information on what the party finds inside the house. Finally, if questioned about the identity of the people who were talking to him earlier in the morning (if the PCs went to Willie's house, see the section "Willie Meets Armon" above), he explains them that the old man is Johann Armon, the wealthiest and most prominent man of the town, and the other one is Stephan, his son. Decades ago the Feuerbachs were one of the major families of the town and shared their power with the Armons and the Aretus. Unfortunately Willie's father lost his fortune in some wrong investments and in gambling and now he, last representative of the dynasty, must earn his life working for a moneylender. Johann Armon sometimes pays him a visit, mainly to mock and tease him with strange proposals, and this was one of those times. On his part, Willie's preferred pasttime is to disappoint Armon and to ridicolize his dumb son at every occasion, and this too was one of those times. Willie won't tell anything more about their talk and will only reveal that Armon basically "owns" the town, so he must be dealt with carefully. He has so far avoided his wrath because Armon thinks Willie is too insignificant to be taken into consideration. As for his son, he's mentally not fit: a child's brain in a giant's body, basically, that's all he can say. The two despise each other. Feuerbach House Willie's house is a huge building that once served as a warehouse for heavy products (Willie's family owned it in the past). The ground floor is empty and run down, full of old cranks and webs, dusty and very gloomy. The living quarters are on the first floor, located some 15' above the ground and accessible only via a metal staircase inside the building. When the party arrives, they find out that the main double door entrance is still locked and shut (since the closing of the warehouse it has never been used anymore). The secondary entrance, a small door on the long side of the building, is also closed, just as Willie left it once he entered the house some six hours before. The door is locked from the inside (Willie didn't take the keys when he escaped) and barred with an iron bolt, so the PCs have to find another way inside. The only windows are located on the first floor, 18' high, and the one from which Willie jumped is clearly visible, broken from the inside. The PCs should use it to enter (either by Flying or by Levitating or by climbing the wall with a rope or by Teleporting inside). [NOTE: the PCs should note that Willie jumped from 18' high and didn't injured himself! Quite a feat for a seemingly weak person as Willie is..] Inside the house, the PCs find out that the door of the sleeping room has been pulled off the hinges but not destroyed. The room shows no signs of struggle and Willie notices that nothing has been touched or removed. If they examine the door more closely they find clear marks, similar to cuts, both on the door and on the knob, probably left by a knife since the cuts are not so broad (but they're deep). Searching the other rooms (the kitchen, the near pantry, the recreation room, other two unused bedrooms and the bathroom) they find no traces of intrusion (everything is as it stood before Willie fled and the dust in some of them testifies that they haven't been used for a long while). Only if they examine closely the door of the bathroom (which is the only one open together with the bedroom one and the kitchen one), just in front of Willie's bedchamber, they notice that the knob on the inside bears the same "scars", cuts, as Willie's door does. However, inside the bathroom they find only a tub (bathtub), two buckets full of water, a stove with a few logs, a chest (with some shaving tools, oils and perfumes and washing towels) and a big mirror near it. Only the kitchen, the bedrooms and the recreative room have a window, and none of them is open (except for Willie's bedchamber that is broken). So how did the intruder get into the house and why? The PCs might become suspecting some magic is at work here, but so far they haven't clear proofs to identify it. If questioned on who might want to harm him, Willie explains that he has many enemies, but none of them is daring or powerful enough to surprise him in his house in that way. He really seems puzzled and a bit frightened, and if it's still nighttime he asks Antares to come to her house to spend the rest of the night there, where he feels safer. There are no reasons to refuse, but in case she does, then Willie tries to convince one of the PCs to remain with him. If he fails, he bids them farewell and secretly seeks another hideout for the night (but at this point he's becoming very disappointed by the group). Whatever the case, nothing more happens this night to Willie or the PCs... but somewhere else, somebody is going to have a dreadful awakening... - -- end part 2 -- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #64 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, February 9 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 065 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - ELVES: Elf Magic as a school Re: [MYSTARA] - Tomb of horrors Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D Mystara Tome of Spellcraft Re: [MYSTARA] - ELVES: Elf Magic as a school Re: [MYSTARA] - Tomb of horrors Re: [MYSTARA] - ELVES: Elf Magic as a school [MYSTARA] - RULES; ROLE Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Question Re: [MYSTARA] - Isle of Dawn Re: [MYSTARA] - Nithia Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Power and gaming (a bit long.. but not much) Re: [MYSTARA] - ELVES: Elf Magic as a school Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Spell: Missile of Slaying Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Question Re: [MYSTARA] - Tomb of horrors Re: [MYSTARA] - ELVES: Elf Magic as a school Re: [MYSTARA] - RULES; ROLE Re: [MYSTARA] - More from the Heretic ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 00:57:42 +1100 (EST) From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" Subject: [MYSTARA] - ELVES: Elf Magic as a school What does everyone think about an Elf school of magic, with opposition schools of Necromancy and Shadow Elf magic? This is a question needing an answer for one of my PBeM mystara players. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- [AD&D Netbooks: www.physics.adelaide.edu.au/~ksimpson/netbooks.html] - -------------------------------------------------------------------- * * Jonathan Nolan FTIA - International Law practice call 618 89310176 * * - -------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 15:21:37 +0100 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tomb of horrors On Sat, 6 Feb 1999 12:40:36 +1100 (EST), "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" wrote: > BTW, have you played S1 in Mystara? Our Dm placed the Tomb in Glantri (at > the Alps), as well as White Plume Mountain and Iggwyl's Tomb (from S4) and > they were linked to form a mini-campaign of artifact-hunting. > > Andrés <> I played Labyrinth of Madness and it proved to be a damn good dungeon crawling adventure with many possibilities for showing one's wits and cleverness. For campaign reasons I staged it in the Outer Planes, but were I to place it in Mystara I'd choose Davania or the Tanegioth Archipelago. Another one I'm going to use is Tale of the Comet, and Threshold's lake is perfect (I'll place Aston Point on the other side of the lake, and Aston will be a crazy monk from the Church of Karameikos). Other adventures, well, I didn't buy many Mystara adventures and among them, few are the non-Mystara I own, so I guess my contribution will end here. Of course there are some Ravenloft and Spelljammer adventures I've run in Mystara, but don't think you're interested.. :) DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 09:35:45 EST From: EzJ25@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D Mystara Tome of Spellcraft In a message dated 2/9/99 8:47:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, geckoes@ozemail.com.au writes: << The address for the Mystara Grimoire is below. They aren't OD&D but that shouldn't make them too impossibly difficult to use... >> I know about that one. I'm looking to assemble OD&D spells created by players for OD&D, not second hand AD&D spells. Thanks anyway, I do appreciate your interest. ;-) Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 09:44:46 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - ELVES: Elf Magic as a school In a message dated 2/9/99 9:00:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, geckoes@ozemail.com.au writes: << What does everyone think about an Elf school of magic, with opposition schools of Necromancy and Shadow Elf magic? This is a question needing an answer for one of my PBeM mystara players. >> Why would Elf magic be opposed to Necromancy? IMO Necromantic magic is only as evil as the caster's intentions. What's this about SE magic??? Arminath *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 03:22:26 +1100 (EST) From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tomb of horrors > Another one I'm going to use is Tale of the Comet, and Threshold's lake is > perfect (I'll place Aston Point on the other side of the lake, and Aston > will be a crazy monk from the Church of Karameikos). > > Other adventures, well, I didn't buy many Mystara adventures and among > them, few are the non-Mystara I own, so I guess my contribution will end > here. Of course there are some Ravenloft and Spelljammer adventures I've > run in Mystara, but don't think you're interested.. :) No I am interested.... V E R Y interested. I have this sadistic streak re: spelljammer, I keep slotting it in wherever it can lurk in the published game worlds. And Mystara actually has a handful of notes on placing spelljammer stuff, for example Threshold is one of the places you could conceivably actually hide a single ship off somewhere in the wilderness or on the lake... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 03:33:35 +1100 (EST) From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - ELVES: Elf Magic as a school I typed, > << What does everyone think about an Elf school of magic, with opposition > schools of Necromancy and Shadow Elf magic? This is a question needing an > answer for one of my PBeM mystara players. >> and almost before you could say 'Etienne D'Amberville' Arminath typed, > Why would Elf magic be opposed to Necromancy? IMO Necromantic magic is only > as evil as the caster's intentions. What's this about SE magic??? The deal is this. An ALfheim Elf by the name of Jennaere, a fairly young wandering female Elf Magician-Archer, has ended up going Underground to the lost city of the Shadow Elves who have fallen under the spell of various dark Immortals. Now as the character is high enough level to start researching highly original spells rather than the typical magic missile variants etc. she has decided that in the new era of the Elves the time has come to have a new School of magics, incorporating the Elves of Alfheim GAZ spells, appropriate 2edn AD&D spells and some Alphatian GAZ spells that she has discovered and so far just lugged around in the form of scrolls. As she fought different Shadow Elves, she noted that their variant magic relied on darkness, radiance and monster summoning and so on and that they did not use most of the surface Elves' dweomers. So she is naturally in opposition to the evil faction of the Shadow Elves anyway and is also totally opposed to Necromancy. So the upshot is that her proposed School will be a philosophical grouping of spells that evoke natural effects, charm and enchant certain specific creatures and objects, and additionally rely heavily on useful "trade magics" that assist communities to develop and survive. The School is based on some underlying principle of life similar to the philosophy of the Preservers (PO:S&M has a lot to answer for). The logic being that Alfheim prospers due to an Elven version of a Preserver's link to the land on a huge scale, and what shuts that link down must of necessity be bad. Doesn't make it true, but that is the logic to this School's 'theory of magic'. Now, in a world of Immortal pawns, I don't see any great problem with a new School like this, but it should be opposed logically by the forces of coercion of nature, the Shadow Elf spells and in particular "Defiler" or crazy type spells such as some of the Radiance spells, and Faustus' True Element (Radiance) spells. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 03:38:50 +1100 (EST) From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" Subject: [MYSTARA] - RULES; ROLE RE: ETIENNE D'AMBERVILLE What is the relatively existential path to Immortalhood that Etienne followed? Does it truly exist in Mystara or is it an aberration to be quietly forgotten? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 12:29:35 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Question Geoff wrote: >I've pondered this as well, when I was planning out the Selhomarr Gaz >waaaay long ago. I determined privately that the Hollow World was >protected by Ka & co. by temporarily detaching it from the outer world >along the World Shield splice line. That is, for a brief time there were >two separate, freely moving spheres, one within the other. This did not >protect the HW from all the damage, of course (Selhomarrian records would >have accounts of massive tidal waves, earthquakes, etc.), but it was >sufficient for the task. Afterwards, new outer polar openings were >created, and the old ones sealed. The two spheres were then rejoined >properly (ie: caves conected them once more, lava flowed, etc.) > >I figured the Immortals had a vested interest in protecting the HW from >such a shock as much as possible, and I think this strategy I outlined >would have been well within their powers. You know, I'm surprised that >TSR didn't even consider this situation... > >I originally tried to sketch out what the original pre-WotI layout of the >HW might have looked like if it had shifted along with the outer world, >but that was too painful to look at, stylistically speaking. IMO, my >theory offers a quick, no-fuss method of doing it. > >Dave Keyser's idea works well, too. > >Any thoughts? Actually, I'd just thought it might be interesting if the HW really DID have a "day/night"-comparable climactic cycle early on, and its current "timelessness" was a fluke! If it had, it might well have been the immense mass of the HW World's Spine -- the thickest, heaviest part of Mystara, drawn to the equator by centrifugal force -- that stabilized the planet on its current axis of rotation, after the GRoF knocked the whole thing topsy-turvey. Originally, the World's Spine might have been skewed well out of line with the equator, giving Iricia a very different climate ... one that'd be subtropical through most of the continent, and hence, better-suited to the pre-Ice Age species (giant reptiles & so forth) it'd initially been stocked with. Naturally, if the interior of the planet shifted, this would have major repercussions for Selhomarr and the Brute-men. Not only might their climate have changed (unless Ixion rotated the inner sun, so it'd line up the same way), but the Floating Continents wouldn't be where they used to be anymore! If that happened, their whole system of astrology and time-keeping would have to be re-learned. Ordana would also be kept busy moving ecosystems to new locations, if their original sites' climates and Shadowfall-cycle no longer suited them. If, on the other hand, we assume the interior of Mystara stayed in place while only the outer world changed its angle, that means that any old Burrower-holes dug by the original Great Annelids, back in 5500 BC, will be long gone -- cut off, halfway down, when the two layers of planet moved against each other. It also means that the old polar openings would've connected to the Hollow World in regions we know very little about: those islands to the northeast of Iricia, and the southernmost tip of the continent on the western side of the HW global map. Hmmmm.... I wonder if there's any odd, pre-GRoF beasties hanging around THOSE regions, that entered the HW under their own power like the Beastmen did...? In any event, of course, the inner sun would stay in place at the center of the planet. Its position has to be set as a constant, relative to Mystara's own; otherwise, it'd hit the HW's surface, due to Mystara's own orbital movement round the outer-world sun. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 12:38:24 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Isle of Dawn >Much of the island was colonized...whether it was all or not is hard to >say. I >think opinion differs on that. One thing to remember about the ancient IoD is that its original human inhabitants were the Alasiyans, not the present "pseudo-Celtic" folks from Dunadale and Caerdwicca. Those people probably came from other lands -- perhaps as neighbors/cousins of the Antalians -- and were enslaved by the Nithians along with the Thyatians, Karendans, and Hattians. The presence of Celtic-style tribes in the modern Hinterlands (to which the Nithians' escaped Thy/Ker/Hat slaves fled) suggests that a fourth group -- the M-Celtics -- might have escaped to Davania alongside the proto-Thyatian tribes ... only they'd remained in Davania and set up a few colonies on the IoD, at the same time the "Big Three" were settling in Thyatis. At least, that's how I've tried to account for the weird distribution of Gaelic/Celtic place-names and personal names, IMC. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 18:40:19 +0100 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?=" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Nithia > > > Not to be a bugbear about Meroitic/Demotic/"Ancient Egyptian", but we > wouldn't know what the vowels were in the given words in most cases... > Of course we don't! I have just (as an omnipotent DM IMC) that that was the hypothetic root to the present Mystara words that are pronounced "Nithia" and "Thothia" (I have followed Coptic phonetical results from Egyptian, but not too seriously, tis a game, not my Dissertation...) BTW, I know of no Egyptian dictionary on-line, though there are some samples of Hieroglyphs which can be downloaded for free (nice for handouts): http://www.historian.net *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 20:04:44 +0200 From: "Solmyr of the Azure Star" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals >Living or dying, no forest will ever match the great halls of Dengar! > > Giampaolo Agosta, dwarf supporter :) > What, are you kidding? Nothing can ever match the great works of man! Solmyr, human supporter :) ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star aka Azure Star Dragon solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 18:23:01 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Power and gaming (a bit long.. but not much) >that guy, and realized that you're completely helpless. >> > >Hey, just to inform you, three of my players were actually able to finish >FF7 AND to kill ALL FOUR WEAPONS!!!!! Uh? Ruby Weapon? *confused* >A last example: during last adventure, my group (Master level) went against >Alphaks and really pissed him off. Well, three of them died while one of >them (a 32 lvl wizard) managed to SURVIVE a METEOR STORM cast by >Alphaks...!!! No probs, an AD&D wiz with fire aura can survive that as well :-) Besides, meteor swarm is overrated. Though IIRC the OD&D version is more powerful. >By the by, how do u calculate the damage inflicted by an Immortal Meteor >Storm, since the dices do not depend on the caster's level? Also, how many I dont think it changes it. Dont use meteor swarm, use fireball instead :-) (IIRC in OD&D Magic Missile could do damage equivalent to high power blasting spells, I guess Immortals have similar low level options better than the high level ones :) >creatures can an Immortal try to Disintegrate at once with the same spell >(WotI makes an example where 4 creatures are involved -it's in the Reduce >ST spell section)? Dont know about that. I do know that an Immortal could spend TPs to reduce mortal saving throws, so if Alphaks spent 20TPs poor Mr PC must save at -20 or die. Hell, if Alphaks was *really* narked he could spend 50TPs just to make sure. He gets em back in 24 hours anyway, and how many thousand does he have? >Also on the subject of AC, I never understood the AD&D rule that AC-10 is >the maximum one could ever attain. OD&D has no maximum (and the Immortals I think its maximum base armour class. As Dex, magical bonuses and so on are modifiers to the enemy hit roll, they are not, technically, improving AC. BTW - is this a 1st ed rule? I dont think its in 2nd ed. Even if it is, IIRC a great wyrm gold dragon in 2nd ed has AC -11. >Am I misjudging somethin here? Depends on how you consider magical protection to work. It could act as a *lucky charm* rather than a force field. Still, it sez somewhere in AD&D that if the opponent cannot move in a combat situation, he can be automatically struck with no hit roll required (so his AC is irrelevant) - it also sez that in a non combat situation, if the victim is asleep or paralysed or something like that you can automatically kill him if you use some form of melee weapon. Fear that 1st level thief! >Last thing (I think), I don't remember where I read/heard this, but can you >confirm that an Immortal, while on his homeplane, is treated like having >DOUBLE his Hit Dices in terms of spell's effects? > >DM I remember that in the olde Gold Box Immortals are more powerful on their home planes. I think that idea was binned in WotI, so i dont think you will find it in there... Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 18:34:33 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - ELVES: Elf Magic as a school >What does everyone think about an Elf school of magic, with opposition >schools of Necromancy and Shadow Elf magic? This is a question needing an >answer for one of my PBeM mystara players. Well, I would say No to the precise definition... You dont need any more schools, name any spell and I could probably assign a school to it. The reason I dislike adding extra schools is when it comes down to opposition schools. I have an example that really narks me... In the Players Option books you can play a Mentalist - specialist in the new school of Mentalism, sortof a cross between enchantment and psionic telepathy. Opposition schools are necromancy and invocation. Sounds kewl so far, but closer examination reveals that Mentalism is virtually identical to Enchantment, and still closer examination reveals that Mentalism has magic jar in its ranks - a necromancy spell (one of the few necro spells that is any good, IMHO). So basically a mentalist is an enchanter, but who loses less spells. As I like enchanters, I didnt like that concept one little bit. OTOH - I like using spells that can only be cast by the appropriate specialist wizard (eg I rule all the Complete Necromancer spells can only be cast by necromancers). If you want specialist Elf spells, I would be inclined, rather than create a new and unnecessary school, to go the way of TSR in the FR Evermeet book. Create some spells, and just rule that only specially trained elven mages can cast them... So you would have "Paldeggerons Accurate Arrow, Enchantment (Elf Spell)" or something like that... I use all the spells out of G:KoM, but rule that only Glantrian trained wizards can cast them, and I have done the same for Herath and Alphatia, so if I was so inclined I would do them for elves too... Or, as yet another option, bin all the conventional schools and have the elves use Something Different. A bit like elementalist wizards, elves could not recognise the conventional schools at all. Instead you could have Sun magic, Rainbow magic, Shadow magic, or whatever... :-) Perhaps for additional coolness you could delve into the Silmarillion and give these elven definitions new nifty names. I know, I quibble on minor rulz issues. I apologise :) Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 12:32:05 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals > > > > Giampaolo Agosta, dwarf supporter :) > > > What, are you kidding? Nothing can ever match the great works of man! > > Solmyr, human supporter :) > Oh, you're both full of it. Nothing can ever match the feats of great athletics. Porphyrogenitus, athletic supporter. 8-)~ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 18:36:00 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spell: Missile of Slaying >Tell me what you all think of this spell I just whipped up tonight. > >Missile of Slaying Sounds cool. Bit like a more powerful version of an Arrow of Bone spell (which is level 6, so thats cool :) Perhaps a candidate for this elven magic... Cheerz Rob, AD&D Travelling Spellbook (more expensive than a normal version, 100gp a page :) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 18:27:45 -0000 From: "Edward Phillips" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE And me, Mystara is the only half decent game world they came up with. - -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Turner To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM Date: 08 February 1999 23:58 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE > > >On Mon, 8 Feb 1999, Brian K Deuberry wrote: > >> > >> >Also, there are many more Mystaran players out there! So I just keep >> >telling them to join the list, and/or hassle TSR (politely) to restore >> >Mystara... >> > >> >-Jonathan >> >> >> What's the current plan on hassling TSR? Do we have a plan as a group? Or >> does everyone just do it in their own little ways? >> >> I would be glad to contribute my voice to the cause. >> >> BK >> > >Hear, Hear! Put me down for a group to hassle TSR about reviving >Mystara. I like that idea. > >--Frobozz-- > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 18:34:27 -0000 From: "Edward Phillips" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Question IMO Whatever remains of Blackmoor is deep below the icelands of northern Skotia. However, Blackmoor colonies might be discovered anywhere on Mystara. There is, for instance a Blackmoor city just south of Alfheim... Yeah? where? - -----Original Message----- From: Håvard Rønne Faanes To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM Date: 09 February 1999 11:12 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Question On Mon, 8 Feb 1999, Tim wrote: > My idea on Blackmoor is that there are no ruins (maybe some slag). I'm > going with the thought the land masses of former Alphatia, Isle of Dawn, > and Bellissaria are the remains of the 'Blackmoor' continent. It just > completely blew up breaking those masses apart. You have to admit, any > explosion powerful enough to shift a planet isn't going to leave much at > the site of the blast :) IMO Whatever remains of Blackmoor is deep below the icelands of northern Skotia. However, Blackmoor colonies might be discovered anywhere on Mystara. There is, for instance a Blackmoor city just south of Alfheim... Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 18:39:23 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tomb of horrors >I played Labyrinth of Madness and it proved to be a damn good dungeon >crawling adventure with many possibilities for showing one's wits and >cleverness. For campaign reasons I staged it in the Outer Planes, but were >I to place it in Mystara I'd choose Davania or the Tanegioth Archipelago. That reminds me, I ran the Dancing Hut of Baba Yaga in Boldavia once... >Another one I'm going to use is Tale of the Comet, and Threshold's lake is >perfect (I'll place Aston Point on the other side of the lake, and Aston >will be a crazy monk from the Church of Karameikos). A worthy adventure, Tale of the Comet. Have fun :) >Other adventures, well, I didn't buy many Mystara adventures and among >them, few are the non-Mystara I own, so I guess my contribution will end >here. Of course there are some Ravenloft and Spelljammer adventures I've >run in Mystara, but don't think you're interested.. :) Well, I am... gwan... :) Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 18:42:55 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - ELVES: Elf Magic as a school >totally opposed to Necromancy. So the upshot is that her proposed School >will be a philosophical grouping of spells that evoke natural effects, >charm and enchant certain specific creatures and objects, and additionally >rely heavily on useful "trade magics" that assist communities to develop Hmm... only thing that i wouldnt like is if these "natural effects" do anything which could be quite happily white necromancy (as opposed to evil black necromancy...) Sounds cool, but I would bin the entire school concept and revamp all the schools for elves. That should make the player happy :) dont just make one new school, rewrite the book! Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 18:45:36 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - RULES; ROLE >RE: ETIENNE D'AMBERVILLE > >What is the relatively existential path to Immortalhood that Etienne >followed? Does it truly exist in Mystara or is it an aberration to be >quietly forgotten? He did it thru the Radiance. Theres a 9th level Radiance Spell which has the effect, essentially, of becoming an Immortal of Energy. I have a tenuous idea for following him - I would make a prospective Radiance mage research all the Radiance spells, starting at the lower levels and working up to Level 9, and leave that spell till last. I have created a fair number of new Radiance spells, so there is quite a lot to research.. Its certainly different tho, because a) there is no sponsor and b) there is none of this quest/trial/testimony stuff which is part of every other Immortal quest. If a PC did it, I would tack in all sorts of nifty components that they would have to gather in order to research these spells, and that sort of thing. Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 13:55:36 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin Turner Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - More from the Heretic Your message was too long to reprint, so Ill just comment. I liked your idea. They seem to be in most accord with the last of the "canon" materials TSR published. I know, the debate has been raging hot and heavy over what good the "canon" actually is. For myself, I only have a small amount of OD&D stuff in comparison to all of the AD&D2 Mystara stuff they put out. I actually got back to D&D because I wanted more on Mystara. I own none of the Hollow World stuff, so the idea that one world can now no longer talk to the other is just fine by me. That the Nithians were wiped out by divine intervention is a cool thing. History is replete with those sorts of ideas. In any event, your idea is most in line with what I use in my campaign.. - --Frobozz-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #65 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, February 9 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 066 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: RE: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE Re: [MYSTARA] - ELVES: Elf Magic as a school Re: [MYSTARA] - Power and gaming (a bit long.. but not much) Re: [MYSTARA] - ELVES: Elf Magic as a school RE: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Nithia [MYSTARA] - General Questions [MYSTARA] - Hollow World Birthright [MYSTARA] - Etienne Re: [MYSTARA] - General Questions Re: [MYSTARA] - Malachie du Marais Re: [MYSTARA] - Malachie du Marais / Lord Alexander Glantri [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves and spiders Re: [MYSTARA] - ELVES: Elf Magic as a school Re: [MYSTARA] - Nithia Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Path of Conqueror Re: [MYSTARA] - New Religion (LONG) Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates Re: [MYSTARA] - Alternate WotI Part 4 Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates Re: [MYSTARA] - Alternate WotI Part 4 Re: [MYSTARA] - Nithia Re: [MYSTARA] - More from the Heretic Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Question RE: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 11:05:41 -0800 From: "Harvey, Michael" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE > Well, my personal super-villain masterplan type plot is to > create free-for-download netbooks of large size and detail, > then send them all to the mirthless ToSseRs and say, "here > ya go, we've done all the work, bring this out as a large > Odyssey boxed set. We dare ya." Call me cynical, but it wouldn't work. (though it would be cool) If its a free download they'd never publish it since the downloads would cut into profits. If it's not a free download they'd just keep it and send their lawyers to make sure you don't distribute it either. Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 13:47:33 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - ELVES: Elf Magic as a school > > Hmm... only thing that i wouldnt like is if these "natural effects" do > anything which could be quite happily white necromancy (as opposed to evil > black necromancy...) > Yes, from the description I'd actually consider it something of a "Naturalist School" rather than a specifically "Elven" school, and label it as such (as someone said, elves aren't nessisarily adverse to necromantic magic). Since the "Naturalist School" is being designed and presumably would be taught by a specific character, the creator of it could choose who to teach it to, and could presumably decide to teach it only to elves if she desired (which, since the "Naturalist School" would include many "proprietary" elven spells, she'd probably do). Then having Necromancy and "Shadow Elf Magic" as opposition schools would be logical. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 13:49:24 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Power and gaming (a bit long.. but not much) > > > Uh? Ruby Weapon? *confused* > Don't worry, Rob. Just think of it as the Sword of Arik. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 21:01:06 +0100 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?=" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - ELVES: Elf Magic as a school The idea of "Elven spells" also passed through my mind when I was designing an original AD&D campaign world. The system I am now (at a very SLOW rate) trying to convert to Mystara. I do not like the concept of new schools (anyway, they do not fit into OD&D, which is what I try to use), so I took a blend of systems: 1. Make some spells FORBIDDEN (although players protest) to the elven culture. For instance, you may decide that a certain clan does not wish any kind of contact with fire or death magic. 2. Chage the appearance of details of existing spells (see the downloadable Dragon article "The color of Magic"). For instance, a Web becomes a Vine Trap (requires the existance of vegetation, but may have some advantages, like thorns causing a little amount of damage...). 3. Create some new spells. At this point, I think that, rather than being single spells, they could be organized by a system similar to the Seven Secret Crafts of Glantri. So, they are not "open" spells that any newcoming foreigner mage may master: they require level of power, initiation in the tradition and secrets of the elven culture... To the point, I have thought of two possible Elven schools: Oniric Wizardry and Forest Magic. The second one implies connections with nature (as elves have no druids, exploration of Nature's ways must follow other paths); the first one spins around the melding of reality and desire (dreaming) and involves communing with Clan Relics (it may be, in practice, similar to Glantri Dream Magic). Andrés *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 15:39:51 -0500 From: Andrew Toth Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals At 12:17 PM 2/8/99 PST, you wrote: >Can anyone give me a reason why the MMLers seem to prefer the shadow >elves and their dying twisted Aegmore to the surface elves and their >living beautiful forest? Well, actually I sort of prefer dwarves and gnomes a whole more than elves. ;) Beyowulf Steely Blue Dragon -==UDIC==- |/ "Ours is not to reason why, but to blow this joint before we die" -Ratrap, BeastWars *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 15:45:08 -0500 From: Andrew Toth Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Nithia At 01:09 AM 2/9/99 +0100, you wrote: > > >I really like the "canon" version of Nithia's Memory being wiped out from >the memory of Mystarans by Immortal action; it reminds me of some RW >Christian legends on God making the Egyptians gods and kings be forgotten, >their script unreadable (as forgetfulness is the worst fate possible to an >Old Egyptian and, by connection IMC, Nithian). Actually, it was Babylon. He confused many of their languages in as a means of getting them to diffuse thoughout the world instead of bunching up in one particular area. Beyowulf Steely Blue Dragon -==UDIC==- |/ "Ours is not to reason why, but to blow this joint before we die" -Ratrap, BeastWars *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 20:41:22 -0000 From: "Hoddie" Subject: [MYSTARA] - General Questions Hi After ploughing through this mailing list for the last couple of nights, I have noticed that most people are playing at the high-level end of the game - a lot even using immortal characters. Are there many who still play using a set of low(ish) level characters, roaming around dungeons ?? I was also wondering if TSR plan to release anything for the Mystara campaign in the near future, as I thought it was just getting interesting when they switched it to AD&D. I was enthralled at the Wrath of the Immortals (Wotl ??) set and the following three Almanacs. It made great reading if nothing else. I have also had a hell of a response to my trading list, for which I thank you all - in case I missed anyone personally. I didn't know how wanted TM2 really was. Is that because of all the info at the bottom, or simply because of the detailed section of the Isle of Dawn - which was brought more into the campaign thanks to Wotl? Well, thats it for now, but I do plan on joining in some of the discussions before very long (if no-one minds, that is). I do think that some of them are a little beyond me, however - "life; chaos or not". Hmmm - I'll pass thanks. Hoddie E-Mail: pjh@ephtl.demon.co.uk Website: http://www.ephtl.demon.co.uk/ephtl/index.htm ICQ num: 16569347 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:32:19 +0200 From: "Solmyr of the Azure Star" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Hollow World Birthright Hello, I have converted the Hollow World of Mystara to Birthright rules. It can be downloaded at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/MBirthright/hwbr.zip ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star aka Azure Star Dragon solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 22:45:09 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: [MYSTARA] - Etienne > RE: ETIENNE D'AMBERVILLE > > What is the relatively existential path to Immortalhood that Etienne > followed? Does it truly exist in Mystara or is it an aberration to be > quietly forgotten? He used the Radiance, he was the first user of Transcend Life Force. Thus, he has no sponsoring immortal, and considers himself outsider to the Hierarchy. The 'path' is far easier and quicker than any other, and can be found from Gaz3, or (the Shadow-Elf variant) from Shadow elves Gaz. And from the Kingdom of Magic, also. - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 21:40:22 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - General Questions >Hi > >After ploughing through this mailing list for the last couple of nights, I have >noticed that most people are playing at the high-level end of the game - a lot >even using immortal characters. Are there many who still play using a set of >low(ish) level characters, roaming around dungeons ?? Oh no, I think most people here seem to prefer the lower level end. Its just that tomb of horrors was mentioned, which is pretty high level stuff i think... >I was also wondering if TSR plan to release anything for the Mystara campaign in >the near future, as I thought it was just getting interesting when they switched >it to AD&D. I was enthralled at the Wrath of the Immortals (Wotl ??) set and the >following three Almanacs. It made great reading if nothing else. > >I have also had a hell of a response to my trading list, for which I thank you >all - in case I missed anyone personally. Sadly, TSR has dropped the Mystara line... though lots of old Mystara stuff (in the guise of OD&D) is still kicking around... >little beyond me, however - "life; chaos or not". Hmmm - I'll pass thanks. Lol. Deep philosophy can be found on the MML. I noted James Ruhland about, so you'll be getting a lot of that in future too, no doubt. Long Live Thyatis! Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 00:22:28 +0100 From: "JamugaKhan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Malachie du Marais > You are just envious because your Ethies don't have a cool werewolf among them :) He, he, you wouldn't guess... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 00:24:48 +0100 From: "JamugaKhan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Malachie du Marais / Lord Alexander Glantri > Well, I wouldn't say so -- I would add Jherek, Urmahid and Carlotina to > the list. You know that you've mentioned both Ethengarian princes, do you? Jamuga Khan "The day will come, when the traitors will pay their debt." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 00:28:40 +0100 From: "JamugaKhan" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves and spiders > ObMystara: Do "our" Neutral Shadow Elves have arachnid pets like the > Oerth/Toril Dark Elves? The SE exploit the spiders as they hunt them and capture their silk, but they don't revere them. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 17:35:19 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - ELVES: Elf Magic as a school In a message dated 2/9/99 11:42:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, geckoes@ozemail.com.au writes: << The deal is this. An ALfheim Elf by the name of Jennaere, a fairly young wandering female Elf Magician-Archer, has ended up going Underground to the lost city of the Shadow Elves who have fallen under the spell of various dark Immortals. >> *sigh* I suppose I should just fade back from whence I came and let the misguided humans keep their view of our world. Arminath *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:54:02 +0100 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?=" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Nithia > > Actually, it was Babylon. He confused many of their languages in as a means > of getting them to diffuse thoughout the world instead of bunching up in > one particular area. Well, I know the Babylon story, but there is a similar text (not in the Bible) concerning Egypt. It is a very obscure and little-known one, I fear I got dragged by my job. Back to Mystara and Nithia, I would like to pose the possibility of making a campaign spin around the archaeological "rediscovery" of an ancient culture like Nithia by PCs. My first campaign spun around our party getting lost in the Ylari desert (module B4) and finding Cynidicea, along with quite a few Nithian ruins and grisly monsters (undead who cannot speak do not violate the Immortal-cast oblivion!). Later, their adventures took them to the HW and the party graybeards started piecing things togegher. The travelled to Thothia, searched for lsot cities thorugh the continent and finally presented the theory of a lost civilization in the HW matching the characteristics of Thothia and "some other ruins". The thing was quite intiutive when we played (ah, the inocence of 1st time gaming sessions!), but it could be readiliy exploded BTW, has anybody come to an idea about Cydinicea (and the URL holding it)? Are they and independent ethnic group or are they linked to other cultures? (IMC I make them be Alphatian leftovers from the conquest of Ylari long centuries ago. Cydiniceans have a quasi Persian -Aquemenid- culture, so I linked them to Alphatia, which IMC is quite Babylonian in its outlook). Andrés *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 18:05:22 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals In a message dated 1999-02-08 02:34:46 Eastern Standard Time, g1ggles@hotmail.com writes: > The elves could rule the world if the wanted to anyway > without the help of a rainbow bridge. > Picture this. There is just one problem -- those elves, because they take longer to mature and don't reproduce as fast, have to win most of their battles just to stay even. Elves do have a considerable edge over their foes, but that edge is not overwhelming enough to make combat worth the risk for this long lived, slow breeding race. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 18:05:09 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Path of Conqueror There is one note about the Path of the Conqueror that needs to be remembered if it is to be an Entropic path -- the nation(s) conquered by the Immortal candidate must be more advanced, more "civilized", and more lawful and orderly than the empire that is to replace them. Goblinoids meet this requirement easily, but the Master of Hule (for example) would be far more limited in his options -- of all his neighbors, only Darokin would meet the requirement of being more "advanced" than Hule. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 18:05:15 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - New Religion (LONG) In a message dated 1999-02-07 23:50:35 Eastern Standard Time, jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au writes: > Where is the "Children of the Immortals" campaign detailed. Is it an > AD&D or OD&D campaign. It is probably just my ignorance, but i have never > heard of it? _Wrath of the Immortals_, book 1, p. 76. Very little detail is given. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 18:05:20 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates In a message dated 1999-02-08 02:17:56 Eastern Standard Time, galwylin@airnet.net writes: > By the same token, I don't > think a single lawful character is given in an evil light. We can > discuss what D&D is supposed to be but that's not what it really is. As > the system aged, the axis seemed to really be on the morality of > good/evil instead of true law/chaos. It wasn't a linear progression -- many later products have "good" chaotic characters (such as Haldemar) and "evil" lawful characters (such as the Hattian Storm Soldiers). I think part of the problem is that a thoroughly despicable character would almost have to be chaotic, while a truly saintly character would almost have to be lawful. An evil character of lawful alignment would tend to be an honest and honorable villain, whereas a good character of chaotic alignment would tend to be an untrustworthy rogue -- and both would receive very mixed reactions from others. It might be most accurate to say that there is a weak corre- lation between law and good on the one hand and chaos and evil on the other -- lawful characters tend to be "good" and chaotic characters tend to be "evil", but there are always exceptions. And because D&D omits the Good/Evil axis, Mystaran characters are more capable of moral amiguity than, say, characters in a Dragonlance campaign. In my opinion, the biggest problem with the conversion of Mystara to AD&D was the resulting assignment of "Good" and "Evil" alignments to characters whose personalities were too complex to fit into those categories -- and in many cases those labels seriously distorted the personalities of the characters that they were applied to. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 18:05:14 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alternate WotI Part 4 In a message dated 1999-02-07 22:19:19 Eastern Standard Time, Nurvel@aol.com writes: > Do you have these in a file.......??? They are good. > i thought the WotI was kinda dumb myself Only in the sense that I saved the postings -- any of the people who have been archiving articles from this mailing list are free to include them in the Web sites set up for that purpose, assuming that I don't get enough comments to drive a radical redesign of that story. In hindsight I do see one big hole -- who sent all those asteroids and meteors in the direction of Mystara? And how did they keep the Immortals from noticing what was going on until it was too late? Unfortunately, I do not have good answers to these questions. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 18:05:12 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates In a message dated 1999-02-07 21:39:51 Eastern Standard Time, eand@WPI.EDU writes: > Not true. Chaotic is not considered Evil in the D&D game system. Although it might not be too much of a stretch to say that many lawful characters believe that to be true.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 17:44:26 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: > > And because D&D omits the Good/Evil axis, Mystaran > characters are more capable of moral amiguity than, > say, characters in a Dragonlance campaign. In my > opinion, the biggest problem with the conversion of > Mystara to AD&D was the resulting assignment of > "Good" and "Evil" alignments to characters whose > personalities were too complex to fit into those > categories -- and in many cases those labels seriously > distorted the personalities of the characters that > they were applied to. That may be (I don't think so myself) but it still doesn't change the fact that chaotic meant evil and lawful meant good far too much in D&D. There may have been exceptions but they are few and far between. The AD&D alignment system has nothing to do with that. Being capable of moral amiguity doesn't mean anything if example after example continues to overlook what lawful and chaotic mean at their core. The first example of lawful and chaotic characters we had from the Red Box were Aleena and Bargle and they were the mold used from then on apparently. - -- Timothy R. Haney galwylin@airnet.net The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:36:55 -0000 From: "Hoddie" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alternate WotI Part 4 |In hindsight I do see one big hole -- who sent all those asteroids and |meteors in the direction of Mystara? And how did they keep the Immortals |from noticing what was going on until it was too late? Unfortunately, I |do not have good answers to these questions. I thought there was only one asteroid? I seem to remember the immortals did notice, but couldn't do very much except for changing the course - thus creating the crater in the Broken Lands, instead of it ploughing into central Darokin. Wasn't it sent by the Master of the Hule (or something), and was too powerful for the immortals to stop. Don't have a go if I'm wrong - I am quoting from memory and it was some time ago that I read it. Hoddie *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 19:28:04 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Nithia In a message dated 1999-02-08 12:32:53 Eastern Standard Time, galwylin@airnet.net writes: > Its hard to comprehend. I'm trying to imagine our view of the world if > we didn't have a memory of Rome :) Our world would be quite radically different if we did not remember the Roman Empire -- to forget Rome, we would also have to forget most of what makes up Western culture. But that does suggest how serious an intervention the Immortal destruction of Nithia was. There must have been an interesting rift within the Sphere of Entropy at that time, as this action could never have taken place without the approval of at least one Hierarch of that Sphere. Or maybe this destruction is what led the Entropics to start meeting and forming Councils with the other four Spheres? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 18:28:29 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - More from the Heretic Kevin Turner wrote: > > I liked your idea. They seem to be in most accord with the last of the > "canon" materials TSR published. That was the way I saw the direction of Mystara going myself. I even think they were also planning to downplay what the Nucleus of Spheres was in Glantri. Like I said, these changes are fine with me since I already was downplaying or removing those specifics myself. Mystara was made easier for the newcomer without completely invalidating what had come before. > I own none of the Hollow World stuff, so the idea that one world can now > no longer talk to the other is just fine by me. The Hollow World is a great concept and an excellent setting. I just don't know what possessed the designers to treat it as they did and make it another 'nation' in the Known World. Pretty soon I was expecting travel between the two to be no harder than a Thyatian traveling to the Isle of Dawn! One thing that really bothered me was how the destruction of Alphatia was handled. An event that makes you sit up and take notice. Then they give us a soothing pat on the head saying don't worry. Everthing's really okay. It wasn't much better than a soap character returning from the dead with some cute explanation that makes you roll your eyes :) - -- Timothy R. Haney galwylin@airnet.net The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 19:58:53 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Question In a message dated 1999-02-08 15:14:34 Eastern Standard Time, Arminath@aol.com writes: > Now, since the polar openings that existed at that time would have > been moved to the equatoral region and Blackmoor to a polar region, > obviously > the Immortals changed things so the polar openings are at the poles again, > so what happened to the ruins of Blackmoor? I think the answer is "what ruins"? Since nobody in the post-Blackmoor era ever found those ruins, they probably were lost. Of course, the Comeback Inn in the Broken Lands might count as a Blackmoor ruin of sorts, although most explanations of how it got to where it is are unsatisfactory. But I suspect that the real answer is that most of the land at the new poles was used to fill in the old polar openings, so most of the "ruins of Blackmoor" should be found at the sites of the former polar openings, wherever they are. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 17:07:27 -0800 From: "Harvey, Michael" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates Tim wrote: > That may be (I don't think so myself) but it still doesn't change > the fact that chaotic meant evil and lawful meant good far too > much in D&D. Far too long? I don't think so. Morality -- by definition -- implies constraint of allowable actions. Therefore morality is possible for lawful characters, and impossible for chaotics; they simply refuse to acknowledge any authority higher than themselves. Furthermore, the ideals of Law are generally "good" (self-sacrificing) while the ideals of Chaos are generally "evil" (selfish). Associating Good with Law and Evil with Chaos is not only reasonable, it is difficult NOT to make the association. In any case, too many people (IMO) have shallow and rigid conceptions of Good/Evil and Law/Chaos. No good person is good 100% of the time; everyone does evil -- either because they made a sincere mistake, or because of weaknesses in their character. Likewise, no evil person does only bad things; many actions may be neutral of even have good results, regardless of motives. In any case, EVERYONE has rational reasons for their actions, and few really believe their motives are evil. Alignments do nothing to change this fundamental truth; if TSR published a new edition of OD&D and replaced Law/Chaos with Good/Evil, Mystara would be no less ambiguous. Good people would still commit evil deeds, and Evil people would still have complex motivations. Neutrals would continue to be ambiguous and unpredictable. > There may have been exceptions but they are few and > far between. The AD&D alignment system has nothing to do with that. > Being capable of moral amiguity doesn't mean anything if example > after example continues to overlook what lawful and chaotic mean > at their core. The first example of lawful and chaotic characters > we had from the Red Box were Aleena and Bargle and they were the > mold used from then on apparently. I fail to see how the use of Law and Chaos remove the possibility of moral ambiguity. That is why neutrality was invented: to provide an ambiguous middle ground. Law and Chaos are extremes: ergo, they are not ambiguous. An ambiguous character who is labeled as Lawful or Chaotic is mislabeled. I think your complaint is misdirected. Law and Chaos do not need redefinition; what you want is for more Neutral characters in the game. That will create more ambiguity. It will also make the Lawful and Chaotic characters stand out more clearly, because they will be exceptions rather than the rule. James Ruhland said: > I recognize that as new social attitudes reflecting the > primacy of self-centered narcissism and deprication of standards > ("no rules," "no boundaries", etc ad campaigns etc) strengthen > at the expense of previous mores prioritizing civic spirit and > concern for the welfair of others, the alignment system will > undergo if not redefinition, then re-evaluation as people > identify traits in "scorned" alignments that they now find > admirable. This is clearly a shift from Law ("prioritizing civic spirit and concern for the welfair of others") toward Chaos ("self-centered narcissism and deprication of standards"). So when the D&D rules say that most humans are Lawful, it is clearly anachronistic. The rules should be amended to read: Most Americans in 1999 are Chaotic Most Americans in 1949 were Lawful Most people in Mystara are Neutral That is the simplest "fix" IMO. Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #66 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, February 10 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 067 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Hollow World Birthright Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions on Alphatia and Thyatis Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates Re: [MYSTARA] - Nithia Re: [MYSTARA] - Alternate WotI Part 4 Re: [MYSTARA] - ELVES: Elf Magic as a school Re: [MYSTARA] - Alignment Debates Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates RE: [MYSTARA] - Alignment Debates RE: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE Re: [MYSTARA] - Hollow World Birthright Re: [MYSTARA] - Entropy Debates Re: [MYSTARA] - Alternate WotI Part 4 Re: [MYSTARA] - More from the Heretic Re: [MYSTARA] - Hollow World Birthright Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates Re: [MYSTARA] - Entropy Debates ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 19:05:47 -0600 From: Aaron E Nowack Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Hollow World Birthright On Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:32:19 +0200 "Solmyr of the Azure Star" writes: >Hello, > >I have converted the Hollow World of Mystara to Birthright rules. It >can be >downloaded at >http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/MBirthright/hwbr.zip I knew it! Tell me, whose going to run this PBEM :) Also, when are Isle of Dawn birthright and Alphatia Birthright coming out? How about Davanian Birthright? :) Heh, heh, maybe I'll get around to doing Undersea Birthright... and MML Birthright (Comand the forces of the Heretics, or rally to the noble High Temple of Canon!) Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/5930/ ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 20:58:14 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions on Alphatia and Thyatis In a message dated 1999-02-09 06:36:21 Eastern Standard Time, jdaly@friend.ly.net writes: > My feeling is that it would depend entirely (from the Alphatian point of view) > on whether the Thyatian was a spellcaster or not. If not, then he is likely to > be dismissed out of hand, scorned, and treated like horse dung. If he is, > then he is likely to receive similar respect as any other spellcaster. > > Now, this is just in terms of respect. When one confronts a dragon, one does > not treat him as a servant. Know what I mean? Recognizing a Thyatian > spellcaster as one of the noble class, does not mean the Alphatians will > trust him. >From the Thyatian point of view, respect would be given based on how effective an Alphatian is in combat. A high level fighter or a wizard who can fling fireballs would be highly respected, whereas a zero level nobody or a wizard who specializes in "useless" spells would be scorned. Of course, no Thyatian would trust an Alphatian -- he would sooner trust a fellow Thyatian, and even that only rarely. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 20:06:45 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates "Harvey, Michael" wrote: > > I fail to see how the use of Law and Chaos remove the possibility of moral > ambiguity. That is why neutrality was invented: to provide an ambiguous > middle ground. Law and Chaos are extremes: ergo, they are not ambiguous. > An ambiguous character who is labeled as Lawful or Chaotic is mislabeled. Perhaps. Looking at Rad in WotI, he is labeled as lawful when we see his actions as selfish. In AD&D, I suppose he would have translated to lawful evil (though chaotic evil would be my choice). But anyway, I didn't really want to open an alignment debate. My problem was with how Entropy Immortals are portrayed. That Entropy was seen as evil so most of its Immortals were given the chaotic alignment. I might be wrong but I just don't like how the alignments were used. I don't think adding more neutrals to the mix is going to change my dislike as I don't think neutral is a guarantee of moral ambiguity. - -- Timothy R. Haney galwylin@airnet.net The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 21:16:10 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Nithia Andres said: >BTW, has anybody come to an idea about Cydinicea (and the URL holding it)? >Are they and independent ethnic group or are they linked to other cultures? >(IMC I make them be Alphatian leftovers from the conquest of Ylari long >centuries ago. Cydiniceans have a quasi Persian -Aquemenid- culture, so I >linked them to Alphatia, which IMC is quite Babylonian in its outlook). > Well, we've got a group working out Cynidicea (almost done - just adding some finishing touches here and there, and waiting for the last bits to come in), and basically we came to the conclusion that, given the way the names have been presented, and judging by the illustrations depicting statuary and the like, the Cynidiceans are a branch of the Traldar, who (the way we worked it out) once ruled what is now Thyatis, eastern Darokin, and southern Ylaruam. Politically they were arranged in city-states, so no empire arose from them, but their legacy remains: Salonikos = Selenica Tameronikas Ctesiphon (yes, I know Ctesiphon (a real city in history, BTW) lies in what is now Iraq, but maybe it could explain the Persian admixtures - it's a fantasy world) Machetos The ones in Thyatis were conquered and absorbed (HW set mentioned that there were people living there before the Thyatian tribes arrived in BC 600), as were those living elsewhere. Anyhow, this is just one possibility as to who the Cynidiceans are. The history we made up for them, using the info in B4 (King Alexander was a dead ringer for Alexander the Great, IMO), provided a fun way of filling in the blanks in a fine product. I'll post it all to the MML once it's done. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 21:29:19 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alternate WotI Part 4 In a message dated 1999-02-09 19:58:26 Eastern Standard Time, pjh@ephtl.demon.co.uk writes: > I thought there was only one asteroid? I seem to remember the immortals did > notice, but couldn't do very much except for changing the course - thus > creating the crater in the Broken Lands, instead of it ploughing into central > Darokin. The canonical version of WotI has one asteroid hitting the Darokin/Glantri border, and has Alphatia sunk by the Glantrian doomsday weapon. My heretical variant has Alphatia being sunk by yet another asteroid/meteor. I postulated a whose swarm of these things so that Immortal efforts to divert them would ultimately prove ineffective -- they would stop enough of them to save Mystara from utter destruction, but enough would get through to cause severe problems. I also wanted to minimize Glantri's role in these events so that the Nucleus of the Spheres would not have to be altered. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 21:29:24 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - ELVES: Elf Magic as a school In a message dated 1999-02-09 09:00:09 Eastern Standard Time, geckoes@ozemail.com.au writes: > What does everyone think about an Elf school of magic, with opposition > schools of Necromancy and Shadow Elf magic? This is a question needing an > answer for one of my PBeM mystara players. The major problem I see is that Shadow Elf magic is very similar to Alfheim Elf magic, with most differences accounted for by the fact that one group lives in forests and the other underground. But Necromancy is an excellent choice for an opposition school to Elf magic. Maybe Evocation/Invocation should be the other? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 20:26:04 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alignment Debates Another rambling diatribe follows: > > This is clearly a shift from Law ("prioritizing civic spirit and concern > for the welfair of others") toward Chaos ("self-centered narcissism > and deprication of standards"). > While an acurate characterization of my arguments, I think you may have emphasized the wrong part of them. In this debate I'm not so much concerned in arguing how IRL mores have changed, but rather how the shift has related to re-defining the Alignments used in the game, as seen in the current dialogue. Your statement (included below) echos the "original intent"/meaning of the Law/Chaos axis, as expressed by the originator(s) the Alignment system, most prominently Mr. Gygax, as I referenced in my earlier ranting screed: > Associating Good with Law and Evil with Chaos is not only > reasonable, it is difficult NOT to make the association. To further illustrate my argument relating to the redefinition of the Alignments, take some additional examples comparing the 1981 printing of the Basic set vs. the 1991 Rules Cyclopedia. As I said, the wording is *almost* identical, but the differences are quite informative. For example: '81 version, under Law: "They will try to obey laws as long as such laws are fair and just." '91 version, under Law: ". . .obey laws that are fair. . ." A concern for justice is no longer stated. More telling are the shifts in defining Chaos though. '81 version, under Chaos: "They cannot be trusted, and their behavior is hard to predict" '91 version, under Chaos: "They cannot always be trusted." While such a statement is absurd ("they can be trusted, except when they can't" means they can't be trusted), the qualification is meant to soften the image. Furthermore, the '91 edition adds a sentance not found at all in the '81 version, permiting Chaotics to be portrayed as merely happy-go-lucky scamps rather than the disreputable schemers they are (and, one year later, William Jefferson Clinton is elected President of the United States. But I digress). Flash forward almost another decade, to 1999. Now the argument is that Law and Chaos have no relationship to ethical concerns at all, and that furthermore any definition that might be applied should be considered subjective rather than objective (which, again, privileges the Chaotic viewpoint). Why is this reckless with respect to the game? Well, in my opinion, which in this case is clearly correct (which is not something I say about all my opinions), this would make the entire structure of alignments absurd. Why? Well, if (in the game) one says that rapine, looting, mass murder, and campaigns of genocide are unlawful and evil in one area (lets say Wendar), but are the social norm of acceptable, even encouraged behavior in another (lets say Denagoth), does that mean that in their own territories (Denagoth) the Shadow Lord and his obedient, faithful subjects should be considered Lawful (or Lawful Good), because they are following the accepted social norm of their own culture? Wheras a Denagothian rebel who rejects the social precepts of Denagoth should be assigned a Chaotic (or Chaotic Evil) alignment? What then is to prevent a Player Character from assigning himself the most benificial available Alignment (say, Lawful or Lawful Good so that he can gain the powers and respect of a Paladin), and then adopting the behavior patterns more commonly associated with a "less restrictive" alignment, and then using whatever arguments (plausable or otherwise) to justify why his actions should be considered Lawful and Good (and, let me tell you, players given such leway are capable of arguments worthy of Clinton's lawyers. Trust me, I know. Trust me, I've *been* that player). To quote from Gygax again since I agree with him: "it is common for players to seek the best of both worlds by claiming the benefits of one alignment while using the processes of the other in order to gain power." ("Evil, Law vs Chaos, The Dragon, issue #28, reprinted in Best of The Dragon volume #2). Permiting subjective interpretations and applications of the alignments, as some have suggested, would encourage and promote this kind of thing. The alignments are then stripped of whatever meaning they have, and become mere labels, contentless relics. Such empty labels are superfluous to the game. To have any meaning and relivance at all with respect to the game, alignments must be both clearly defined and objectively defined before gameplay begins. So that it is clear what constitutes Lawful and Chaotic behavior, and what does not. The short descriptions in the '81, and even the '91 rules, are actually very clear on this. This doesn't mean that the alignments cover everything (I doubt they were even intended to, though a fuller ["fuller" being different from clarity. The alignments are clear, but they are insuficient] description might be helpful.) In addition, they also don't mean that every character, player or non-player, will neatly fit the description, nor always live up to its ideals (or lack theirof). For one thing, this would make the game fairly boring if everyone behaved as cookie-cutter drones following certain pre-set behaviors without variation (and now I sound like a Chaotic. But note that this applies to them as well: in some aspects, even Chaotics should be rational, for example). To quote for a final time from Gygax "It might be disturbing if one reflected deely upon the whys and wherefores of the singular inability of so many players to determine for themselves the rights and wrongs of good behavior. . ." ("Good isn't Stupid", The Dragon #30, also reprinted in Best of The Dragon volume #2). Pedants who want to burst my balloon will note that later in the article he goes on to describe how the definition of good might vary based on the diety a character worships or the country that character is in/from (and thus subjective). But note that I never said Gyagax was infalable. He's simply wrong here, for reasons I discussed above. I was going to include a diatribe on what constituted Lawful and Chaotic personality times (in the game), but you all have the rulebooks. Read 'em. If you don't like what they say, don't use 'em, or come up with your own system (and if you do the later, please share with the group. I'm sure we'd all be interested). Just don't claim that they mean (or don't mean) what they clearly do (or don't). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 20:48:09 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates > > Perhaps. Looking at Rad in WotI, he is labeled as lawful when we see > his actions as selfish. In AD&D, I suppose he would have translated to > lawful evil (though chaotic evil would be my choice). > Well, whether you agree with him or not (and I do not), his argument was that the rules and traditions that he was violating were injust and unfair, an argument that is available to Lawful characters, who only have to obey laws that are "fair and just". But, be that as it may, his actual behavior is indeed Chaotic in my opinion. > didn't really want to open an alignment debate. My problem was with how > Entropy Immortals are portrayed. That Entropy was seen as evil so most > of its Immortals were given the chaotic alignment. > I think it is valid that they be assigned a Chaotic alignment (though not *nessisarily* in all cases an evil one). Entropy does tend to spread disorder, distruction, and thus encourages the very stuff of Chaos. I would find it hard to put any aspect of Entropy or its champions in the category of "Lawful," for example. > I might be wrong but > I just don't like how the alignments were used. > I think we agree here, though perhaps not in the details. A system that would allow for more complexity, while still creating characters who can be expected to follow certain behaviors, might be more appropriate. Either that or a system that dispenses with alignments altogether (but now I'm repeating myself, so I'll end). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 21:27:17 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates James Ruhland wrote: > > Well, whether you agree with him or not (and I do not), his argument was > that the rules and traditions that he was violating were injust and unfair, > an argument that is available to Lawful characters, who only have to obey > laws that are "fair and just". Well, that's the catch isn't it? ;) Any good debate on the death penalty shows that what is "fair and just" isn't something you can easily put your finger on. > I think it is valid that they be assigned a Chaotic alignment (though not > *nessisarily* in all cases an evil one). Entropy does tend to spread > disorder, distruction, and thus encourages the very stuff of Chaos. I would > find it hard to put any aspect of Entropy or its champions in the category > of "Lawful," for example. This all ties in how we see Entropy. Placing my self in the role of a cleric of an Immortal of death, I think I could come up with some arguments that destruction is the natural course of the universe. To do anything that disrupts that course (like casting a raise dead spell) is a chaotic act. I am following the dictates of my lawful alignment by refusing to cast that spell. A chaotic character would cast the spell solely on his personal whim. What his sphere dictates has no bearing on his actions. Does that explain my problems with assigning Entropy solely to chaos? That none of its goals can be reached because its Immortals are chaotic and so, undependable to see that its goals are met. Every sphere needs some type of order to succeed. The way the spheres are set up now, Entropy need not exist (actually none of them need to exist because there is no Immortals we've seen working to further their sphere's goals over themselves). Entropy having any kind of goal means there is some type of order within it. You can't have goals without ways to reach them. Having a structure to met those goals is order (law). I guess I muddied the waters again :) - -- Timothy R. Haney galwylin@airnet.net The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 19:39:03 -0800 From: "Harvey, Michael" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Alignment Debates James Ruhland wrote: > I wrote: >> >> This is clearly a shift from Law ("prioritizing civic >> spirit and concern for the welfair of others") toward >> Chaos ("self-centered narcissism and deprication of >> standards"). > > While an acurate characterization of my arguments, I > think you may have emphasized the wrong part of them. In > this debate I'm not so much concerned in arguing how IRL > mores have changed, but rather how the shift has related > to re-defining the Alignments used in the game, as seen > in the current dialogue. Sorry, I guess I didn't make my point very well. :-) I wasn't trying to summarize or respond to your post -- I was trying to use a part of it to support my own argument and suggest a possible solution. Re-reading my post it looks like I was responding to the two postings separately. Actually I thought your post was exceptionally well thought-out and written, and I agreed with most of it. I agree very much with your analysis of how alignments have changed. However rather than just discarding the whole setup, I favor a return to the original system. The reason I quoted that particular snippet was to illustrate that the perspective of readers/gamers have changed, and that in order to UNDO the changes to the alignment system, these perspectives need to be taken into account. Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:41:53 +1100 (EST) From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE > > If it's not a free download they'd just keep it and send their lawyers to > make sure you don't distribute it either. > > Mike Ah, the battle between the forces of neutrality and the OTHER forces of neutrality - see my signature file for why I don't fear the ToSseRs... :) - -------------------------------------------------------------------- * * Jonathan Nolan FTIA - International Law practice call 618 89310176 * * - -------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:46:38 +1100 (EST) From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Hollow World Birthright Can we (I) have the bio for Solmyr of the Azure Star ? Like what magic does he cast, where is he from ? :) - -------------------------------------------------------------------- [AD&D Netbooks: www.physics.adelaide.edu.au/~ksimpson/netbooks.html] - -------------------------------------------------------------------- * * Jonathan Nolan FTIA - International Law practice call 618 89310176 * * - -------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:44:30 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Entropy Debates > > Well, that's the catch isn't it? ;) Any good debate on the death > penalty shows that what is "fair and just" isn't something you can > easily put your finger on. > Ahh, but that's where sincerity and honesty (components of the Lawful alignment) come in: it is not the case that Lawfulness implies that everyone will reach the same conclusions and judgements. What is the case is that they will struggle sincerely in arriving at their opinions, and in so far arrive at them with a regard for how the decision/policy/etc will affect (in their *honest* opinion) the group/society as a whole. For a Chaotic, none of that matters. What matters is only how things affect them now. Their stated opinion on any issue can change easily depending on how it will benifit or harm them personally (I.E. all for the strict administration of the death penalty on a retarted person when it will help you get elected, then all for mercy and forgiveness when that will help you get off on obstruction of justice charges). How the outcome affects society is not important in your conclusions: only how it advances your own interest. > > solely on his personal whim. What his sphere dictates has no bearing on > his actions. Does that explain my problems with assigning Entropy > solely to chaos? > Yes, that explains your problems with assigning Entropy to chaos, but if I may say it also explains your confusion over the Alignments in the first place. Take your Priest of Death: he cannot by definition be Lawful, at least within the limits of the description you gave so far. Entropic death/distruction may be "natural," but simply saying that does not make either Lawful by nature, according to the D&D definition of the alignment Lawful, which states that such characters ". . .care about all living things." Not dead, or (sorry Nyx sweetie) undead things. As I stated in my earlier diatribe discussing why subjectivity cannot be a standard applied to the alignments, the simple fact that the Priest is obedient to the strictures of his faith does not make him Lawful, any more than thouse who diligently obey the edicts of the Shadow Lord of Denagoth are therefore Lawful. Now, it would be possible to have an Immortal of death/the afterlife who was neither Chaotic nor Entropic. But it is almost impossible to envision a Lawful Entropic, because by its nature Entropy is not concerned with justice, truth, the welfare of all living things, or the benifit of the group. Since Entropy has no concern for these things, by its very nature the way to "get ahead" and advance Entropy (distruction, death, etc) best is through methods that best fit the description of Chaos (Entropy breaks down structure and order, producing disorder. Entropy encourages the break down of societies, and thus the spread of self-interest and the "dog eat dog" mentality.) The wisest, oldest, most powerful Entropics realize that their sphere plays an important role in the multiverse, and thus putting them completely into the category of "evil" would not be fair. But lets face it: as I said, Entropy is hard on thouse who experience it. For people and societies, Entropy is '80s Beirut/Lebanon, '90s Bosnia, and to a lesser but still severe degree Russia. This may serve an identifiable purpose in that todays world is built upon the ashes of yesterdays, but that doesn't mean we celebrate thouse who encouraged the destruction of the old (World War I, Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao's Cultural Revolution and Great Leap Forward), thus making it all possible for us. We recognize their actions for what they were: crimes against humanity. Yes, agents of Entropy serve a purpose in the multiverse. But that purpose is a cruel one for thouse who live through it, in both its large and small manifestations. Entropy has no concern for the welfair of the whole, except perhaps in the most abstract of senses, which thus have no relation effects to actual living people at any given moment. This is neither Lawful nor Good under any of the accepted D&D or AD&D definitions of the terms. At best Entropy, like a force of nature, is "neutral" in the same sense that a tornado or hurricane is neutral. At worst, it is Chaotic because it attracts to its service thouse who delight in destruction for its own sake, and the high muckety muck Entropics accept such fools (like Alphaks) into their ranks as "useful tools," thus corrupting the Sphere's "noble purpose" by adopting the methods of its members: people/Immortals who pursue their own vendettas, selfishly. But then, corruption of purpose is a component of Entropy as well. So it is neither ironic nor surprising that Entropy, as a Sphere of Immortals, is a corrupt and debased one, full of nasty dudes. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:52:36 +1100 (EST) From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alternate WotI Part 4 > In hindsight I do see one big hole -- who sent all those asteroids and > meteors in the direction of Mystara? And how did they keep the Immortals > from noticing what was going on until it was too late? Unfortunately, I > do not have good answers to these questions. Alien Immortals of another planet on the Prime ? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:55:01 +1100 (EST) From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - More from the Heretic > Isle of Dawn! One thing that really bothered me was how the destruction > of Alphatia was handled. An event that makes you sit up and take > notice. Then they give us a soothing pat on the head saying don't > worry. Everthing's really okay. It wasn't much better than a soap > character returning from the dead with some cute explanation that makes > you roll your eyes :) > > -- > Timothy R. Haney > galwylin@airnet.net Yeah, an event on the scale of Atlantis or at least the fall of Mycenae, and two weeks later sort of thing no-one's even mentioning it in their stories or sagas. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:57:54 +1100 (EST) From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Hollow World Birthright > Undersea Birthright... and MML Birthright (Comand the forces of the > Heretics, or rally to the noble High Temple of Canon!) > > Aaron Nowack > "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." > http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/5930/ - -but what the hell bloodline powers would the MML have ??? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 01:17:29 -0500 From: Andrew Toth Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon Debates At 09:27 PM 2/9/99 -0600, you wrote: >James Ruhland wrote: >This all ties in how we see Entropy. Placing my self in the role of a >cleric of an Immortal of death, I think I could come up with some >arguments that destruction is the natural course of the universe. Maybe an Immortal of Death would be better placed in the Sphere of Earth, rather than Entrophy, if it is indeed the natural course of the Universe. Beyowulf Steely Blue Dragon -==UDIC==- |/ "Ours is not to reason why, but to blow this joint before we die" -Ratrap, BeastWars *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 00:33:55 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Entropy Debates > > Well, that's the catch isn't it? ;) Any good debate on the death > penalty shows that what is "fair and just" isn't something you can > easily put your finger on. > Ahh, but that's where sincerity and honesty (components of the Lawful alignment) come in: it is not the case that Lawfulness implies that everyone will reach the same conclusions and judgements. What is the case is that they will struggle sincerely in arriving at their opinions, and in so far arrive at them with a regard for how the decision/policy/etc will affect (in their *honest* opinion) the group/society as a whole. For a Chaotic, none of that matters. What matters is only how things affect them now. Their stated opinion on any issue can change easily depending on how it will benifit or harm them personally (I.E. all for the strict administration of the death penalty on a retarted person when it will help you get elected, then all for mercy and forgiveness when that will help you get off on obstruction of justice charges). How the outcome affects society is not important in your conclusions: only how it advances your own interest. > > solely on his personal whim. What his sphere dictates has no bearing on > his actions. Does that explain my problems with assigning Entropy > solely to chaos? > Yes, that explains your problems with assigning Entropy to chaos, but if I may say it also explains your confusion over the Alignments in the first place. Take your Priest of Death: he cannot by definition be Lawful, at least within the limits of the description you gave so far. Entropic death/destruction may be "natural," but simply saying that does not make either Lawful by nature, according to the D&D definition of the alignment Lawful, which states that such characters ". . .care about all living things." Not dead, or (sorry Nyx sweetie) undead things. As I stated in my earlier diatribe discussing why subjectivity cannot be a standard applied to the alignments, the simple fact that the Priest is obedient to the strictures of his faith does not make him Lawful, any more than thouse who diligently obey the edicts of the Shadow Lord of Denagoth are therefore Lawful. Now, it would be possible to have an Immortal of death/the afterlife who was neither Chaotic nor Entropic. But it is almost impossible to envision a Lawful Entropic, because by its nature Entropy is not concerned with justice, truth, the welfare of all living things, or the benifit of the group. Since Entropy has no concern for these things, by its very nature the way to "get ahead" and advance Entropy (destruction, death, etc) best is through methods that best fit the description of Chaos (Entropy breaks down structure and order, producing disorder. Entropy encourages social disintigration, and thus the spread of self-interest and the "dog eat dog" mentality.) The wisest, oldest, most powerful Entropics realize that their sphere plays an important role in the multiverse, and thus putting them completely into the category of "evil" would not be fair. But lets face it: as I said, Entropy is hard on thouse who experience it. For people and societies, Entropy is '80s Beirut/Lebanon, '90s Bosnia, and to a lesser but still severe degree Russia. This may serve an identifiable purpose in that todays world is built upon the ashes of yesterdays, but that doesn't mean we celebrate thouse who encouraged the destruction of the old (World War I, Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao's Cultural Revolution and Great Leap Forward), thus making it all possible for us. We recognize their actions for what they were: crimes against humanity. Yes, agents of Entropy serve a purpose in the multiverse. But that purpose is a cruel one for thouse who live through it, in both its large and small manifestations. Entropy has no concern for the welfair of the whole, except perhaps in the most abstract of senses, which thus have no relation effects to actual living people at any given moment. This is neither Lawful nor Good under any of the accepted D&D or AD&D definitions of the terms. At best Entropy, like a force of nature, is "neutral" in the same sense that a tornado or hurricane is neutral. At worst, it is Chaotic because it attracts to its service thouse who delight in destruction for its own sake, and the high muckety muck Entropics accept such fools (like Alphaks) into their ranks as "useful tools," thus corrupting the Sphere's "noble purpose" by adopting the methods of its members: people/Immortals who pursue their own vendettas, selfishly. But then, corruption of purpose is a component of Entropy as well. So it is neither ironic nor surprising that Entropy, as a Sphere of Immortals, is a corrupt and debased one, full of nasty dudes. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #67 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, February 10 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 068 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tomb of horrors Re: [MYSTARA] - Who Serves Entropy? Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - New Religion (LONG) Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions on Alphatia and Thyatis Re: [MYSTARA] - Nithia Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE Re: [MYSTARA] - Nithia Re: [MYSTARA] - Who Serves Entropy? Re: [MYSTARA] - Alternate WotI Part 4 RE: [MYSTARA] - General Questions Re: [MYSTARA] - Alternate WotI Part 4 Re: [MYSTARA] - Power and gaming (a bit long.. but not much) Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about Scolls of Communication Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about Scolls of Communication [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA ADVENTURES Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara [MYSTARA] - OD&D Mystara Tome of Spellcraft Re: [MYSTARA] - Spell: Missile of Slaying Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Question RE: [MYSTARA] - OD&D Mystara Tome of Spellcraft [MYSTARA] - SPELLS - ELF MAGIC ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 01:40:20 -0500 From: Jerry Hovenanian Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tomb of horrors DM wrote: > I played Labyrinth of Madness and it proved to be a damn good dungeon > crawling adventure with many possibilities for showing one's wits and > cleverness. For campaign reasons I staged it in the Outer Planes, but were > I to place it in Mystara I'd choose Davania or the Tanegioth Archipelago. AHHHH....BAAAAD....My 24 level Druid (AD&D) was the only one to survive it out of 6 other PCs of simmar levels...after entering the plane of water and finding my way back to Mystara :) We had it on the western coast of the Isle of Dawn. - -- Jerry Hovenanian clumsydwarf@hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 00:43:56 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Who Serves Entropy? > > This all ties in how we see Entropy. > You've made some fairly good, if somewhat flawed, arguments on why Entropy, as a force, should be viewed as not actively malevolent, but merely a natural force, and even a nessisary one. However, your argument that therefore thouse who serve Entropy (its Immortals, etc) are likewise innocent, is flawed. Why? Well, before deciding who serves Entropy, one must first reflect on what type of person would be attracted to its service. Clearly, anyone with a constructive bent would be right out. No one who wants to build anything lasting would seek to become an Immortal of Entropy. Instead, thouse who seek destruction (for whatever reason) are most likely to be recruited into Entropy's service. Similarly, thouse who seek to kill and revel in death and mayhem will be attracted. None who pursue ideals such as just retribution belong, because Entropy works on the just and injust alike without discernment. Thouse who seek to use the forces of Entropy to pursue their own personal agendas (Alphaks comes to mind) will likewise find their place in Entropy's hierarchy. So, while Entropy starts, in a "pure" state, as a neutral component of the multiversal order, it is tainted and corrupted by the type of individual who serves it. As I said in my related screed, this should not be unexpected or surprising, because corruption is an element of Entropy. Does it then shock you that Entropy's hierarchy consists of the corrupted, the degenerate, the psychopathic? It shouldn't. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 01:55:24 -0500 From: Jerry Hovenanian Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > At 10.33 06/02/99 PST, Jennifer Favia wrote: > > > >Has anyone actually ever thought of how *dumb* it > >sounds to have one Immortal "protecting" another, a > >superior at that? None of the other Imms. need > >bodyguards...Has anyone actually given Mealiden a *job* > >yet, or did everyone just accept this wholesale? > > > > I accept it as is. IMO it shows how useless and "stupid" Mealiden is. IMC I use him as a counter agent to anyone who would endanger Ilsundal, his plots, or his followers. His clerics root out plots a against elves and gather intelligence and engage in counterintelligence while he protects Ilsundal form other immortals direct action. - -- Jerry Hovenanian clumsydwarf@hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 05:56:09 PST From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara >His official stats are listed as Thief 11/Mage 26. Which version? The mans a yo. ;P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 02:16:20 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - New Religion (LONG) In a message dated 2/8/99 12:28:56 PM Central Standard Time, Arminath@aol.com writes: << << Eek, but what about all these people who don't have the books half of these spells appear in? :-( >> Which spells don't you have access to? I can email them to you (or post them on teh list if enough people want them). >> i dont think i have any of those spells *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 02:21:05 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions on Alphatia and Thyatis In a message dated 2/8/99 3:35:05 PM Central Standard Time, bkis1@in- motion.net writes: << I really got the feeling that they had been conquered so many times by one side or the other that they really just accept each other as neighbors. Who knows what country your going to belong to next? Best to be kind to thy possible future country man. That's they way I play it anyways. Good luck on your campaign. BK >> Thanks............i am also searching for any info on the Greatt Escarpment.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 02:24:01 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Nithia In a message dated 2/8/99 4:13:33 PM Central Standard Time, dornhoff@bio.umass.edu writes: << I think Mystarans today call it Nithia; that's why there's an Emirate of Nithia in modern Ylaruam. You'd have to go to the Hollow World, to find out what the Nithians call themselves ... although as soon as you translate their words into Common Thyatian or another modern language, you're back to calling it "Nithia" again! :-) >> Is this Emirate just like old nithian society???? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 02:26:31 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA GRIMOIRE In a message dated 2/8/99 6:02:35 PM Central Standard Time, sg96d355@drexel.edu writes: << Hear, Hear! Put me down for a group to hassle TSR about reviving Mystara. I like that idea. --Frobozz-- >> Me too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 07:56:36 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Nithia ><< I think Mystarans today call it Nithia; that's why there's an Emirate of > Nithia in modern Ylaruam. You'd have to go to the Hollow World, to find > out what the Nithians call themselves ... although as soon as you translate > their words into Common Thyatian or another modern language, you're back to > calling it "Nithia" again! :-) >> The effect that Nithian culture had is described in some detail in the Red Steel box (as they are behind the Red Curse, and have littered pyramids all over the place). It seems the main deal is to mislabel them as Oltecs - who were an advanced people (though not nearly as advanced as Nithian). Looking through the Black Vessel novel, Mazrooth al Yedom (who was studying Nithian civilisation) referred to the Nithian civilisation as "late Oltec". So the biggest change was in the name. Presumably, as the Immortals were more concerned about halting the spread of Entropy, some details were left unchanged. ie no one knows anything about ancient Nithian religion, but any Nithian info that isn't religious in nature may have survived the Spell of Oblivion. The Nithians on the Savage Coast were made up of rebel colonists who ultimately planned to return the KW and supplant the corrupted Pharaoh. In the end the Savage Coast Nithians were corrupted as well, but perhaps the rot had not set in as deeply, so Entropic religion hadn't yet taken over their culture entirely - which is why some of their culture has survived on the Savage Coast. Cheerz Rob >Is this Emirate just like old nithian society???? >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 07:57:23 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Who Serves Entropy? > You've made some fairly good, if somewhat flawed, arguments on Lol. James Ruhland is back :) Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 07:58:53 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alternate WotI Part 4 >> In hindsight I do see one big hole -- who sent all those asteroids and >> meteors in the direction of Mystara? And how did they keep the Immortals >> from noticing what was going on until it was too late? Unfortunately, I >> do not have good answers to these questions. > >Alien Immortals of another planet on the Prime ? A planet of bugs? :) Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:25:54 +0100 From: Kristian Kramer Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - General Questions Well, not all people play high level campaigns. The highest level one of my players has (at the moment) is 2. So that's pretty low. We're still crawling through underground tunnels, looking for the remains of ancient warriors... Anyway, sometimes the topics are a little beyond me too. I'm not a hardcore <:) Mystara player, unlike many others on this list. But I'm enjoying myself tremendously. And I would like to thank all of the list members for the many, many, many, many hours of reading they provided. No, this is not goodbye!! :-) Welcome Hoddie and enjoy your stay! (Oh, and like Rob said, watch out for some of those list members, they know all!! :-) > -----Original Message----- > From: Hoddie [SMTP:pjh@ephtl.demon.co.uk] > Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 9:41 PM > To: D&D Mailing List > Subject: [MYSTARA] - General Questions > > Hi > > After ploughing through this mailing list for the last couple of nights, I > have > noticed that most people are playing at the high-level end of the game - a > lot > even using immortal characters. Are there many who still play using a set > of > low(ish) level characters, roaming around dungeons ?? > > I was also wondering if TSR plan to release anything for the Mystara > campaign in > the near future, as I thought it was just getting interesting when they > switched > it to AD&D. I was enthralled at the Wrath of the Immortals (Wotl ??) set > and the > following three Almanacs. It made great reading if nothing else. > > I have also had a hell of a response to my trading list, for which I thank > you > all - in case I missed anyone personally. > > I didn't know how wanted TM2 really was. Is that because of all the info > at the > bottom, or simply because of the detailed section of the Isle of Dawn - > which > was brought more into the campaign thanks to Wotl? > > Well, thats it for now, but I do plan on joining in some of the > discussions > before very long (if no-one minds, that is). I do think that some of them > are a > little beyond me, however - "life; chaos or not". Hmmm - I'll pass thanks. > > Hoddie > > E-Mail: pjh@ephtl.demon.co.uk > Website: http://www.ephtl.demon.co.uk/ephtl/index.htm > ICQ num: 16569347 > > ************************************************************************** > * > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the > line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 19:40:16 +1100 (EST) From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alternate WotI Part 4 > > > >Alien Immortals of another planet on the Prime ? > > > A planet of bugs? > > :) > > Cheerz > > Rob > Klendathu is an ugly world, a bug world... a world of 10HD Bugs and their Elder Gods... WANT TO SEE MORE? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:45:02 +0100 From: Kristian Kramer Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Power and gaming (a bit long.. but not much) >>Also on the subject of AC, I never understood the AD&D rule that AC-10 is >>the maximum one could ever attain. OD&D has no maximum (and the Immortals >> >>Am I misjudging somethin here? >> >Depends on how you consider magical protection to work. It could act as a >*lucky charm* rather than a force field. > Use the Force, Luke! Use the Force. :-) >Still, it sez somewhere in AD&D that if the opponent cannot move in a combat >situation, he can be automatically struck with no hit roll required (so his >AC is irrelevant) - it also sez that in a non combat situation, if the >victim is asleep or paralysed or something like that you can automatically >kill him if you use some form of melee weapon. > >Fear that 1st level thief! I think you have a point there, Rob. I don't think a magical armour provides someone with a force field (a big IMHO of course). IMC magical armour like eg. a chainmail +2 is just tougher and lighter than comparable armour. Although in the case of protection rings and that sort of thing it's a bit more difficult, IMO there has to be some sort of force field with those items. 'Cause they're too small to provide protection in any other way. Kristian Kramer "Courage isn't just a matter of not being frightened, you know. It's being afraid and doing what you have to do anyway." The Doctor (Planet of the Daleks, 1973) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:52:28 +0100 (MET) From: Agathokles Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Immortals On Wed, 10 Feb 1999, Jerry Hovenanian wrote: > Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > > > At 10.33 06/02/99 PST, Jennifer Favia wrote: > > > > > >Has anyone actually ever thought of how *dumb* it > > >sounds to have one Immortal "protecting" another, a > > >superior at that? None of the other Imms. need > > >bodyguards...Has anyone actually given Mealiden a *job* > > >yet, or did everyone just accept this wholesale? > > > > > > > I accept it as is. IMO it shows how useless and "stupid" Mealiden is. > > IMC I use him as a counter agent to anyone who would endanger Ilsundal, his > plots, or his followers. His clerics root out plots a against elves and gather > intelligence and engage in counterintelligence while he protects Ilsundal form > other immortals direct action. > Mealiden is also patron of the swashbucklers of the SC (as Milan or the Adventurer). I believe he's a good patron for PCs, expecially the CG types. Giampaolo Agosta *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 03:38:57 -0600 From: "Frankie Wakefield" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara - - >> >> > > Hate to tell you, but the Maximum Level for Humans in AD&D is 30. >> > > Period. >> >> > Except if you're Elminster. >> >> His official stats are listed as Thief 11/Mage 26. > Actually, I think he's up to Mage 29 now. And the High Level Campaign book pushed max level to 40 - ------------------------------------------------ The recipe for perpetual ignorance is a very simple and effective one: be satisfied with your opinions and content with your knowledge. - --Elbert Hubbard flwakefield@msn.com | AIM: wakefieldf | ICQ: 18278781 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 07:39:48 PST From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about Scolls of Communication >I'd say yes. AFAIK the only limitation to the scrolls is that they have t= >o >be on the same plane of existance, which means that they would work if on= >e >is on MJupiter and one is on Mystara, or whatever. OTOH I dont think it >would be that unreasonable if the DM chose to disallow it. > Obviously this is to do with the interaction of the planetary magipole with the universal standing waves of magical force as the planet travels along it`s orbit. This interaction will lead to largescale varience from the mean magiflow, which will only be observable once one is away from any major groupings of either intelligent beings or even huge numbers of living beings. the cause for this will be readily apparent to any serious student of metaphilomath and for the layman it has to do with the resonance if the Nth dimensional geometryfields as applied via Clarkes law. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 22:48:02 +1100 (EST) From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about Scolls of Communication > Obviously this is to do with the interaction of the planetary magipole > with the universal standing waves of magical force as the planet travels > along it`s orbit. Obviously. > This interaction will lead to largescale varience from > the mean magiflow, which will only be observable once one is away from > any major groupings of either intelligent beings or even huge numbers of > living beings. the cause for this will be readily apparent to any > serious student of metaphilomath and for the layman it has to do with > the resonance if the Nth dimensional geometryfields as applied via > Clarkes law. Or is it just bollocks? :) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 23:13:50 +1100 (EST) From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" Subject: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA ADVENTURES Where does one contribute a Mystaran module or adventure? - -------------------------------------------------------------------- [AD&D Netbooks: www.physics.adelaide.edu.au/~ksimpson/netbooks.html] - -------------------------------------------------------------------- * * Jonathan Nolan FTIA - International Law practice call 618 89310176 * * - -------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 07:36:17 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elves for AD&D Mystara In a message dated 2/10/99 4:43:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, flwakefield@email.msn.com writes: << And the High Level Campaign book pushed max level to 40 >> No, it moved the overall level limit to 30. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 07:49:20 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - OD&D Mystara Tome of Spellcraft In a message dated 2/9/99 8:09:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, Arminath@aol.com writes: << Unless someone has already done this, I want to assemble a netbook of OD&D spells. Some good ideas are tossed around here and a few other places I haunt and I think it'd be a cool thing if us OD&D'ers had a resource of the magical arts to draw from for our villans and characters. Magic of all types will be readily accepted (clerical, druidical, magical). And on the chance that someone has already done an OD&D Netbook of Spells, then send me the address so I can get it! Arminath - Arminath@aol.com >> So far only one reply has been made in response to this. Has OD&D died out so completely? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 07:54:21 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spell: Missile of Slaying Neat spell, but a bit overpowered for even 9th level! To bring it more in line, my suggestions would be to include a Material component in the casting: blood of the creature's race type. It makes the loophole smaller that the players can try to wiggle through later. Also, since it instantly slays the creature, Necromancy should be added to the spell's schools (snuffing out a creature's lifeforce tends to be a necromancy thing, IMO). Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:05:09 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Question On Tue, 9 Feb 1999, Edward Phillips wrote: > IMO Whatever remains of Blackmoor is deep below the icelands of northern > Skotia. However, Blackmoor colonies might be discovered anywhere on > Mystara. There is, for instance a Blackmoor city just south of Alfheim... > > Yeah? where? The city is mentioned in the adventure Legacy of Blood (CM9?). It is located in a swamp in the barony of Fenhold just on the border of southern Alfheim. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:17:55 +0100 From: Kristian Kramer Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - OD&D Mystara Tome of Spellcraft < :-) > OD&D? Now that you mention it, my granddad used to tell me about that: "Hmmm, let me think, sonny. Yeah, when I was much younger (and now I'm talking about the last two or three decades of the 20th century, mind you), there were people who played that. But nowadays we all play the much more complicated and much more expensive version AAAD&D 44th edition. Cost me a fortune, it did. Or a King's ransom, if you like." But seriously, I would like to 'have' that OD&D Netbook of Spells, but don't make my own spells (yet). I hope others have a more useful contribution than my little piece of nonsense, though :-) Someday..... Later, Kristian > -----Original Message----- > From: Arminath@aol.com [SMTP:Arminath@aol.com] > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 1:49 PM > To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM > Subject: [MYSTARA] - OD&D Mystara Tome of Spellcraft > > In a message dated 2/9/99 8:09:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, > Arminath@aol.com > writes: > > << Unless someone has already done this, I want to assemble a netbook of > OD&D > spells. Some good ideas are tossed around here and a few other places I > haunt > and I think it'd be a cool thing if us OD&D'ers had a resource of the > magical > arts to draw from for our villans and characters. Magic of all types > will be > readily accepted (clerical, druidical, magical). > > And on the chance that someone has already done an OD&D Netbook of > Spells, > then send me the address so I can get it! > > Arminath - Arminath@aol.com >> > > So far only one reply has been made in response to this. Has OD&D died > out so > completely? > > ************************************************************************** > * > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the > line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 00:55:59 +1100 (EST) From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" Subject: [MYSTARA] - SPELLS - ELF MAGIC The player has finished her Elf Magic school. The spells are in the Grimoire. Basically it is a new School with some Enchantment and Preserver spells and a lot of new and Elf-only magic. Opposition "school": 'Black Magic', ie evilly-aligned Necromancy, evil Shadow Elf spells and 'Defilement', ie trafficking with Bad Magic areas or the like. After relaying the list lady's suggestion re: silmarillion as a source, "Jennaere" came up with Create Elfstone, 7th level but with material costs of a minimum of I think it was 175,000gp... makes a magical jewel (surprise) that can have spell effects put into it, either 'always on', useable once per day, week or once only. Spells like Dancing Lights are put into Clan elfstones for effect or else Elfstones are made to be Clan items for defence and adventuring. I liked her idea because it is a classic PC type item that is made but its cost balances it out so there won't be a zillion silmarillion if you know what I mean... :) - -Jonathan "one of these nights I will do some work" Nolan - -------------------------------------------------------------------- [AD&D Netbooks: www.physics.adelaide.edu.au/~ksimpson/netbooks.html] Mystara Grimoire v1.3 now out, v 1.4 due out soon... - -------------------------------------------------------------------- * * Jonathan Nolan FTIA - International Law practice call 618 89310176 * * - -------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #68 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, February 10 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 069 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - SPELLS - ELF MAGIC Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D Mystara Tome of Spellcraft [MYSTARA] - D&D SPELLS [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA FANZINE - the cure for sanity? Re: [MYSTARA] - SPELLS - ELF MAGIC Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D SPELLS [MYSTARA] - RULES: Dwarf specialist fighters in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - SPELLS - ELF MAGIC Re: [MYSTARA] - SPELLS - ELF MAGIC Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA FANZINE - the cure for sanity? Re: [MYSTARA] - SPELLS - ELF MAGIC Re: [MYSTARA] - Entropy Debates Re: [MYSTARA] - More from the Heretic Re: [MYSTARA] - Who Serves Entropy? Re: [MYSTARA] - General Questions [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA FANZINE Re: [MYSTARA] - SPELLS - ELF MAGIC ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:12:30 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - SPELLS - ELF MAGIC In a message dated 2/10/99 9:00:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, geckoes@ozemail.com.au writes: << Opposition "school": 'Black Magic', ie evilly-aligned Necromancy, evil Shadow Elf spells and 'Defilement', ie trafficking with Bad Magic areas or the like. >> But what makes the magic evil? IMO it's the purpose the magic is used for and not the magic in and of itself... Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:13:32 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D Mystara Tome of Spellcraft In a message dated 2/10/99 8:21:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, Kristian.Kramer@comsys.nl writes: << But seriously, I would like to 'have' that OD&D Netbook of Spells, but don't make my own spells (yet). I hope others have a more useful contribution than my little piece of nonsense, though :-) Someday..... Later, Kristian >> Well, as soon as I get some contributions, I'll let y'all know. Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 01:18:18 +1100 (EST) From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" Subject: [MYSTARA] - D&D SPELLS This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. - --0-726102508-918656298=:16079 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII this is a simple search result, at least some of the URLs are to D&D (AOT AD&D) spells. 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majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 01:32:13 +1100 (EST) From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" Subject: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA FANZINE - the cure for sanity? Hi everybody... The whole "no more Mystara" / no Mystara on the newsstands scene got me thinking, with my lawyer brain rather than my RPG brain for a change... :) It is possible legally to publish AD&D non-TSR stuff in Australia. It is also possible to use a published world eg Mystara with certain provisoes: 1. NO repeat NO TSR copyright material other than in reviews or "fixes" eg "Mystics are not much good. Here is my 'fix' for the "Mystic" class 2. clear legal notification on the front saying: "Not approved by TSR" and "Not affiliated with or published by WotC" 3. "fair comment" blurb on inside cover. Now, self-publishing here costs Aus $1800.00. No great sum for me. What I propose, and it is only a proposal at present, is that if we want to, we publish as in physically publish not netpublish a brand new full-colour booklet or "game aid" which is "fully compatible" with Mystara, as well as being a "third party" AD&D aid. Due to Australia's laws (Trade Practices Act 1974 (Cth)), etc.etc. there is legal protection against anti-competitive practices and 'open architecture' publishing of all kinds is a profitable niche here. Why bother? Well, at worst, we produce (you and me as editors me as daddy warbucks I suppose) a new good-as-anyone Mystara book. At best, we begin an ambitious project to buy up lapsed copyright in Mystara, eg there is a lapsed copyright buyable in Australia for the D&D modules, they were published by a certain group out here now gone bust. Then WE own bits of our beloved gameworld. And no, I don't mean we begin to become Earth's answer to the Master of Hule, but this is the best means to get new TSR stuff published. Remember Judge's Guild? They publish a type of chart or game aid, TSR followed suit if the JG product was any good. Anyone interested, email me privately, unless the List Immortal sees this as sufficiently listable to continue here... Mystara Fthagn! - -------------------------------------------------------------------- [AD&D Netbooks: www.physics.adelaide.edu.au/~ksimpson/netbooks.html] - -------------------------------------------------------------------- * * Jonathan Nolan FTIA - International Law practice call 618 89310176 * * - -------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 01:36:59 +1100 (EST) From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - SPELLS - ELF MAGIC > << Opposition "school": > 'Black Magic', ie evilly-aligned Necromancy, evil Shadow Elf spells and > 'Defilement', ie trafficking with Bad Magic areas or the like. >> > > But what makes the magic evil? IMO it's the purpose the magic is used for and > not the magic in and of itself... personally I tend to agree with you, but the player has quite rightly pointed out that one of the particular features of Alfheim is "Bad Magic" areas, implying perhaps some aligned dimension of dodgy magics that Elf Mages will stand against. If Bad Magic areas exist as objectively "Bad" sources of magic, her logic is that there is a specific taint that makes bad necromancers 'Black Magicians'. It's arbitrary but then so is the whole AD&D spell system. :/ My philosophy as her DM is to allow it, becuase its her original idea and driving force and the spells are more than good enough. if it takes the game off on another tangent, well, so be it. If her Elf Magic dies with her and doesn't prove popular then I will treat that as empirical proof it deserved to fade into obscurity. Don't think that will happen somehow though to judge by the chorus of OOHs and WOWs from her nonElfsympathy-impaired fellow Elfplayers... :) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:37:54 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D SPELLS Thanks! I hope some of them pan out Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 01:42:20 +1100 (EST) From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" Subject: [MYSTARA] - RULES: Dwarf specialist fighters in Mystara Tell us, oh sages, Are there any cool descriptions of Dwarf heroes out there? And any good rules for Dwarf fighter specialists? My personal preference is for Master rules Dwarf fighters but as I am now doing the Stone Thorn netbook of Dwarven Exploits :) I am on the prowl for Dwarfisch Arbeit! ?:)? - -------------------------------------------------------------------- [AD&D Netbooks: www.physics.adelaide.edu.au/~ksimpson/netbooks.html] - -------------------------------------------------------------------- * * Jonathan Nolan FTIA - International Law practice call 618 89310176 * * - -------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:49:18 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - SPELLS - ELF MAGIC In a message dated 2/10/99 9:41:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, geckoes@ozemail.com.au writes: << My philosophy as her DM is to allow it, becuase its her original idea and driving force and the spells are more than good enough. if it takes the game off on another tangent, well, so be it. If her Elf Magic dies with her and doesn't prove popular then I will treat that as empirical proof it deserved to fade into obscurity. Don't think that will happen somehow though to judge by the chorus of OOHs and WOWs from her nonElfsympathy-impaired fellow Elfplayers... :) >> I wasn't trying to force my opinion anywhere, just give it. Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 02:38:21 +1100 (EST) From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - SPELLS - ELF MAGIC > > I wasn't trying to force my opinion anywhere, just give it. > > Jim of course! :) and your opinion is an excellent other voice! :) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:38:03 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA FANZINE - the cure for sanity? On Thu, 11 Feb 1999, Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA wrote: > It is possible legally to publish AD&D non-TSR stuff in Australia. > It is also possible to use a published world eg Mystara with certain > provisoes: This looks _very_ interesting. I believe the same thing was done for Chaosiums Glorantha, although the magazine called Tales of the Reaching Moon was probably published with Chaosium's approval. (Non-profit). If this is as you say perfectly legal, I would be interested in buying the fanzine and possibly even contributing with material. (although I wont promise anything). If you are willing to go through with this I'm gonna have to put you on my list of Groovy People! Cheers! Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:43:46 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - SPELLS - ELF MAGIC On Wed, 10 Feb 1999 Arminath@aol.com wrote: > But what makes the magic evil? IMO it's the purpose the magic is used for and > not the magic in and of itself... In some worlds, magic is considered evil because of its connection to the forces of evil or the devil. In mystara, necromancy _may_ be connected to the Sphere of Entropy, which is considered evil by most people. Just a thought though... Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 10:14:39 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Entropy Debates James Ruhland wrote: > > Take your Priest of Death: he cannot by definition be Lawful, at least > within the limits of the description you gave so far. Entropic > death/distruction may be "natural," but simply saying that does not make > either Lawful by nature, according to the D&D definition of the alignment > Lawful, which states that such characters ". . .care about all living > things." With our current technology, we are able to keep people 'alive' even against their own wishes. If a lawful character cares for all living things, there will be times when death is the best gift to give. That doesn't mean a priest of death would go out giving it to everyone. Only to stop the abuses of the natural process of death. Take the Christian religion (and please no one get offended), it offers that death is the beginning of true life. I haven't created a priesthood so this is all in rough stages. > Now, it would be possible to have an Immortal of death/the afterlife who > was neither Chaotic nor Entropic. But it is almost impossible to envision a > Lawful Entropic, because by its nature Entropy is not concerned with > justice, truth, the welfare of all living things, or the benifit of the > group. I don't see what sphere would fit death better than Entropy. That's what it does, bring an ending. Justice, truth, the welfare of all living things, or the benefit of the group can all have death as an important process. It is fair that all creatures die (justice), fact that all creatures die (truth), the next generation needs the resources of the older (the welfare of all living things), and a group must evolve by losing the old ways of thinking (benefit of the group). > The wisest, oldest, most powerful Entropics realize that their sphere > plays an important role in the multiverse, and thus putting them completely > into the category of "evil" would not be fair. Since we haven't seen any lawful entropics, there must be a story of what happened to them. If you think at one time all spheres knew of their importance to the universe as well as each others. Perhaps the idea of one becoming dominate is something new. I'm not saying the current Entropy Immortals should be more balanced, only that their counterparts in the sphere are missing. > Entropy has no concern for the welfair of the whole, except perhaps in the > most abstract of senses, which thus have no relation effects to actual > living people at any given moment. But no sphere currently cares for the living people at all. > But then, corruption of purpose is a component of Entropy as well. So it > is neither ironic nor surprising that Entropy, as a Sphere of Immortals, is > a corrupt and debased one, full of nasty dudes. Again, corruption has entered all spheres. All the Immortals are representative of some entropic aspects as with each one, mortal life had to end before immortal life began. They just skipped the part death usually takes care of :) - -- Timothy R. Haney galwylin@airnet.net The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 10:17:38 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - More from the Heretic "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" wrote: > > Yeah, an event on the scale of Atlantis or at least the fall of Mycenae, > and two weeks later sort of thing no-one's even mentioning it in their > stories or sagas. I imagined great bardic tales sung in taverns of the fall of the great empire of Alphatia. But with the Hollow World becoming well know, and eventually Alphatia's place in it, I think they would lose some of their punch. It would be like finding out Atlantis was really the coast of Africa :) - -- Timothy R. Haney galwylin@airnet.net The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 10:26:36 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Who Serves Entropy? James Ruhland wrote: > > You've made some fairly good, if somewhat flawed, arguments on why > Entropy, as a force, should be viewed as not actively malevolent, but > merely a natural force, and even a nessisary one. Ouch! A backhanded compliment :) > However, your argument that therefore thouse who serve Entropy (its > Immortals, etc) are likewise innocent, is flawed. Why? I don't think you could call any Immortal innocent. Benekander perhaps but most of the others sacrificed their innocence in attaining Immortality. > Clearly, anyone with a constructive bent would be right out. No one who > wants to build anything lasting would seek to become an Immortal of > Entropy. Going back to Rad, we see an Energy Immortal making use of an Entropy concept (destruction) to further his own sphere. This goes back to what I said long ago that I don't find much use from the spheres. Each one uses tenets of another (all) in some way. They are, more or less, all complete in some way. Except we don't allow Entropy to be constructive but have no problems letting Energy, Time, etc. be destructive. Since none is balanced correctly then I don't find any useful. > So, while Entropy starts, in a "pure" state, as a neutral component of the > multiversal order, it is tainted and corrupted by the type of individual > who serves it. As I said in my related screed, this should not be > unexpected or surprising, because corruption is an element of Entropy. Does > it then shock you that Entropy's hierarchy consists of the corrupted, the > degenerate, the psychopathic? > It shouldn't. No but then every other sphere has Immortals that are "corrupted, degenerate, and psychopathic" so why is Entropy denied the reverse? - -- Timothy R. Haney galwylin@airnet.net The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 10:28:07 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - General Questions Kristian Kramer wrote: > > (Oh, and like Rob said, watch out for some of those list members, they know > all!! :-) Or they just make you think they know all :) - -- Timothy R. Haney galwylin@airnet.net The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 03:29:41 +1100 (EST) From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" Subject: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA FANZINE This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. - --0-150609669-918664181=:478 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII attached is a textfile of my proposal. nothing would make me happier than to have my fellow editors on the list ie all of you totally replace my suggestions with your own. let's collaborate and get this thing up and away! :) BTW, subscribing to a quarterly fanzine of this quality shouldn't be too expensive. I would estimate given the costing here that US $10.00 - $20.00 yearly should do it. But don't quote me yet. :) - -------------------------------------------------------------------- [AD&D Netbooks: www.physics.adelaide.edu.au/~ksimpson/netbooks.html] - -------------------------------------------------------------------- * * Jonathan Nolan FTIA - International Law practice call 618 89310176 * * - -------------------------------------------------------------------- - --0-150609669-918664181=:478 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; name="ggom.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64 Content-ID: Content-Description: Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ggom.txt" Z3JhbmQgZ2F6ZXR0ZSBvZiBteXN0YXJhIHByb2plY3QgW2ZhbnppbmUgb3Ig d2hhdGV2ZXJdDQoNClRJVExFOiA/d2hvIGtub3dzPw0Kc29tZSBzdWdnZXN0 aW9ucyBhcmUgYmVsb3cNCg0KICBTQUdBIE9GIFRIRSBMT1NUIFdPUkxEDQpV bm9mZmljaWFsIGFuZCBVbmF1dGhvcml6ZWQNCiAgICAgTXlzdGFyYSBGYW56 aW5lDQoNCi1NWVNUQVJBLUZBTlpJTkUtDQoNClVOS05PV04gV09STEQNCiAg ICAgICAgDQogICAgICAgIE1ZU1RBUkEhIA0KVW5vZmZpY2lhbCBhbmQgVW5h 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In mystara, necromancy _may_ be connected to > the Sphere of Entropy, which is considered evil by most people. > Just a thought though... There is an Immortal with interest in necromancy of the sphere of Energy :) - -- Timothy R. Haney galwylin@airnet.net The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #69 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, February 10 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 070 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - SPELLS - ELF MAGIC Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Entropy Debates Re: [MYSTARA] - Hollow World Birthright Re: [MYSTARA] - Hollow World Birthright [MYSTARA] - The Hin Re: [MYSTARA] - Entropy Debates Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Who Serves Entropy? Re: [MYSTARA] - More from the Heretic Re: [MYSTARA] - Entropy Debates Re: [MYSTARA] - Isle of Dawn Re: [MYSTARA] - Isle of Dawn Re: [MYSTARA] - ELVES: Elf Magic as a school Re: [MYSTARA] - More from the Heretic Re: [MYSTARA] - ELVES: Elf Magic as a school Re: [MYSTARA] - Spell: Missile of Slaying Re: [MYSTARA] - Who Serves Entropy? Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Who Serves Entropy? Re: [MYSTARA] - Spell: Missile of Slaying Re: [MYSTARA] - SPELLS - ELF MAGIC Re: [MYSTARA] - Entropy Debates Re: [MYSTARA] - Entropy Debates [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] The Black Arts of Necromancy ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 03:47:46 +1100 (EST) From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - SPELLS - ELF MAGIC > > In some worlds, magic is considered evil because of its connection to the > > forces of evil or the devil. In mystara, necromancy _may_ be connected to > > the Sphere of Entropy, which is considered evil by most people. > > Just a thought though... > > There is an Immortal with interest in necromancy of the sphere of Energy > :) > It's interesting that the Necromancy = 'Black Magic' idea is pretty common, despite all the shadow elf loving necromancy fans on the list... :) I think what the Jennaere player proposed was valid in the game as it is exactly how some of the Elves seem to think and the player too seems to have the attitude that although necromancy COULD be non-evil, it's pretty likely that it will turn out to be evil, through taint or through the way it is used. It has certainly made the roleplaying excellent. BTW, she now has three student spellcasters, a Shadow Elf, a Red Arrow Elf and a 'savage' Elf from a barbaric clan of jungle dwellers. The first Black Magician they fought together was actually a Transmuter! Nothing to do with necromancy, the bad guy was an exploitative dude destroying a toadstool forest for his own twisto purposes. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:48:06 EST From: RocksHope@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Entropy Debates "I don't see what sphere would fit death better than Entropy. That's what it does, bring an ending. Justice, truth, the welfare of all living things, or the benefit of the group can all have death as an important process. It is fair that all creatures die (justice), fact that all creatures die (truth), the next generation needs the resources of the older (the welfare of all living things), and a group must evolve by losing the old ways of thinking (benefit of the group)." All creatures dying is not fair. Especially when the circumstances of death vary so widely. Yes, Entropy would cause death, but it hardly makes sure that it is fair. All Americans (supposedly) pay taxes, but that alone does not make them fair. Entropy, in its destructiveness and lack of caring for the circumstances of death, contributes to the lack of fairness in death.. Fact that all creatures die as truth. Truth as an "attribute" has to be more than just having one tiny fact as a side-effect of your actions. Entropy creates truths, with no regard for what might have been true yesterday. Even death, for Entropy, is something they would twist and mold to whatever idea they could come up with (for example, nyx's beastmen experiment). Entropy abhors truth, and seeks to corrupt it or hide it. Next generation needs resources of older.. I doubt any generation would want an Entropic in charge of their inheritance. Anything as quaint as a parent passing on his hard work and resulting resources onto his children is way too "static" for an Entropic. Evolve by losing the old ways of thinking. Entropy (and death) do often lose the old ways of thinking. Entropy would prefer that evolution of the old ideas did not take place, only that the knowledge is lost. No corruption of the "new" way with the old. Point being, an Entropic Death immortal or priest would focus on the destruction caused by death. Death removes people from the universe, looses the memory, ideas, work created by them, etc. An Immortal of Death from Matter would concentrate on redistribution of resources? An Immortal of Death from Energy would concentrate on the freedom from old ideas? Isn't there a Sphere of Time? I think this might be best for a Lawful Death Immortal. the idea that life for one person belongs to a certain point. that when that time is up, another person brings their ways, etc. no focus on the destructiveness of death, but on the progression of time and the ending of that time for an individual.?? ok. i'm done rambling..back to work i go. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:26:01 +0200 From: "Solmyr of the Azure Star" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Hollow World Birthright >I knew it! Tell me, whose going to run this PBEM :) Also, when are Isle Whoever wants to :) >of Dawn birthright and Alphatia Birthright coming out? How about I'm not sure I'm up to that. Besides, Alphatian Birthright wouldn't be that much different from MBR - constant warfare, and everyone hating everyone else :) >Davanian Birthright? :) Heh, heh, maybe I'll get around to doing >Undersea Birthright... and MML Birthright (Comand the forces of the Actually, I was considering adding Undersea to MBR at some point... but came to my senses in time :) ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star aka Azure Star Dragon solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:30:24 +0200 From: "Solmyr of the Azure Star" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Hollow World Birthright >-but what the hell bloodline powers would the MML have ??? > Definitely Azrai's bloodline, all of them :) ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star aka Azure Star Dragon solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 10:54:49 -0600 From: Tim Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Hin Okay, looking at the timelines available. I've come to a few assumptions: Elves were the first race (BC 5000) Humans the second (BC 4000) Gnomes the third (BC 2900) Dwarves the fourth (BC 1800) The Hin settled the Five Shires around BC 1300 but I haven't found when or where their race started. Any ideas? Were they the last race created? - -- Timothy R. Haney galwylin@airnet.net The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 10:57:29 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Entropy Debates > > With our current technology, we are able to keep people 'alive' even > against their own wishes. > All fine and well, but your argument had nothing to do with Entropy. > that all creatures die (truth), the next generation needs the resources > of the older (the welfare of all living things), and a group must evolve > by losing the old ways of thinking (benefit of the group). > Ahh, but Entropy doesn't care if it destroys things that are still benificial, or only things that have outlived its purpose. In that sence, Entropy is injust. It may deploy the arguments you make, but in actuality Entropy works to break down valuable and worthless institutions, lives, mores, etc. indescriminately. It is the role of the other Spheres to counteract Entropy and save that which is still valuable and useful. Entropy itself doesn't care about such diferentiations. > > Since we haven't seen any lawful entropics, there must be a story of > what happened to them. > I got to that a bit in my second post "Who Serves Entropy?" > > But no sphere currently cares for the living people at all. > See, I don't think that's true. All the other Spheres evidence some concern for the living. Entropy is the only one for whom life holds no value whatsoever. > > Again, corruption has entered all spheres. > I get the feeling regarding the above that you are deliberately misunderstanding the difference for the sole purpose of argumentation. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:03:49 EST From: RocksHope@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Who Serves Entropy? In a message dated 2/10/99, 10:30:17 AM, mystara-l@MPGN.COM writes: <> [Note: I don't know what the "canon" on the Immortals is. The following is based on my perceptions of the Immortals from small blurbs about them in various books. Use them at your own risk.] The Entropic Immortals should be more "corrupted, degenerate, and psychopathic" than the other sphere's Immortals. Just as the Entropic Immortals use energy, time, matter, etc. But it is not their focus, their disregard for the present state is what makes them Entropic Immortals. Their goals are not to create a new state, but to destroy the existing. Example, Alphaks does not really want to create a new empire. He wants to destroy his enemies. He is willing to entice allies to his side, form armies, etc to destroy his enemies, but he does not care if his allies create a lasting government or "prosper", only that they contribute to his plans for destruction. This attitude of hate and hostility taints everything he does. Same with Atzanteotl, etc. Thanatos is an older Immortal of Entropy. I assume whatever specific things he wanted destroyed were destroyed long ago :). So he has developed into a less specific corner of Entropy. He promotes those that destroy, that hate more than they wish to create. In fact, Thanatos' major plans lately have dealt more with create other Immortals of Entropy? He finds someone with a hefty amout of hate, and lets them indulge it. Hel and Nyx are in a separate corner too. Nyx deals with hidden fear and anxiety? She deals not with the destruction of people, but of ideas and the truth. (at least in my image of Mystara). Nyx is the keeper of secrets, not so that they may be saved and relearned later, but that they may never be seen again. Hel is the keeper of dead souls. (again, at least in my image of Mystara). Instead of allowing souls to contribute to something after their death, she destroys them. This takes alot of time, and is Hel's life work. If you want to save a soul from Hel, you'd better do it quickly, or you might not get back what you thought you were getting.. Note that she made at least one experiment of sending souls back to Mystara (reincarnation) in the hopes that they would cause more destruction. She was later banned from this? At least from creating more Beastmen anyway. again, enough rambling. i really should do work. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:10:02 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - More from the Heretic In a message dated 2/8/99 9:25:01 PM Central Standard Time, galwylin@airnet.net writes: << Well, this is all my opinion and colored by the fact that I don't like that the outer world is allowed contact with the Hollow World. The Karameikan Expedition was now an investigation of the poles in which those that entered the Hollow World are thought to have died. I also figured that the Old Ones have removed the Spell of Preservation and erased all knowledge of the outer world (so they now have the natural progress of two worlds to watch). Well, that's all from this heretic :) >> I was just catching up and it was changed again............jesus...I will never figure all of this out :) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:15:58 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Entropy Debates Okay, now you've done it! I'm getting out the big red book (aka Webster's Encyclopedic Unabridged Dictionary of the English Language) The closest definition I can find is "entropy is homogeneity, uniformity, or lack of distinction or differentiation (the tendency of the universe toward entropy)" Like I've been saying, there is nothing about entropy to make me consider it evil. Its just all part of a process or tendency. All these evil aspects being given it are additional to what it really is. One way of creating entropy is through death and destruction but that is not the only way. The canon debates we had a few months ago are an entropy process. Attempting to have all of us view Mystara the same and thus creating a lack of distinction. But I certainly don't call that evil (though disagreeing with me borders on it :) Like I said at the beginning, the spheres are useless for the most part to me as they don't embody what they supposedly are. And their Immortals certainly don't seem interested in that embodiment. Perhaps the exception is Nyx. Her goal to replace all life with undead could fit the true entropy process. - -- Timothy R. Haney galwylin@airnet.net The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:18:01 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Isle of Dawn In a message dated 2/9/99 5:38:55 AM Central Standard Time, jdaly@friend.ly.net writes: << Its a good module, and it goes into great detail about the Immortal spider ruler and the mysticism...and Edairo... >> I wish I had this module.....i need to know more about this mysticism....... Do the Thotians erect pyramids and stuff like that? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:14:34 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Isle of Dawn In a message dated 2/9/99 2:14:09 AM Central Standard Time, rmunch@easynet.co.uk writes: << Talons of Night is the adventure that details Thothia, IIRC there is at least some info in there. >> Thanks Rob....i'm trying to find more info about this sort of stuff.....so if you see some out on some sites....let me know...... i wish i had that adventure *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:20:27 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - ELVES: Elf Magic as a school In a message dated 2/9/99 8:00:09 AM Central Standard Time, geckoes@ozemail.com.au writes: << What does everyone think about an Elf school of magic, with opposition schools of Necromancy and Shadow Elf magic? This is a question needing an answer for one of my PBeM mystara players. >> If there are any 2nd adition players out there......do you treat shadow elf magic different or what.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:22:23 -0600 From: Tim Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - More from the Heretic Nurvel@aol.com wrote: > > I was just catching up and it was changed again............jesus...I will > never figure all of this out :) While my ideas haven't been given the okay from TSR, they were based on how it looked to be TSR was heading. I just used an old trick of blaming it all on the Immortals :) - -- Timothy R. Haney galwylin@airnet.net The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:26:47 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - ELVES: Elf Magic as a school In a message dated 2/9/99 12:38:45 PM Central Standard Time, rmunch@easynet.co.uk writes: << In the Players Option books you can play a Mentalist - specialist in the new school of Mentalism, sortof a cross between enchantment and psionic telepathy. Opposition schools are necromancy and invocation. Sounds kewl so far, but closer examination reveals that Mentalism is virtually identical to Enchantment, and still closer examination reveals that Mentalism has magic jar in its ranks - a necromancy spell (one of the few necro spells that is any good, IMHO). So basically a mentalist is an enchanter, but who loses less spells. As I like enchanters, I didnt like that concept one little bit. >> The magic jar spell in their list is just to be the same but not the actual spell. It involves differences, but as a whole it's the same. What i am trying to say is that it is only the same name for game mechanics *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:28:36 EST From: Nurvel@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spell: Missile of Slaying In a message dated 2/9/99 12:39:40 PM Central Standard Time, rmunch@easynet.co.uk writes: << Sounds cool. Bit like a more powerful version of an Arrow of Bone spell (which is level 6, so thats cool :) Perhaps a candidate for this elven magic... >> Possibly......it was created by an elven NPC of mine....the spell is actually Zemus' Missile of Slaying...so if someone put that in their book.,.......list it as that....... Of yeah.....whats this arrow of bone spell..... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:25:31 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Who Serves Entropy? > > Ouch! A backhanded compliment :) > Yah, I have to practice on someone. 8-)~ > > I don't think you could call any Immortal innocent. > Again, I think you're deliberately misunderstanding the difference. You might as well argue that the Paladin who enters the Dungeon to rescue the princess, killing Orcs and High Priests along the way, is as moraly corrupt as his victims. But, as I argued earlier, if you do that you're arguing against the alignment system as such, and furthermore against the very concept of a game of heroic fantasy. To not see the difference between, for example, the revenge-minded Tarastia and the vengeance-minded Alphaks, then nothing I could say could possibly enlighten you. In that, I am deficient, and for that I appologize. > > Going back to Rad, we see an Energy Immortal making use of an Entropy > concept (destruction) to further his own sphere. > Ahh, but that is not precise. Rad did not/does not pursue reasurches into the Radiance in order to advance destruction. Destruction is not his purpose. That destruction would be a by product of his endevour is why Ixion and others opposed him. But Rad, unlike Thanatos (for example), does not have destruction as a goal. Since I myself think Rad was wrong, I'll leave it to others to generate a fuller defence of his actions as creative/potentially positive/generative. What I *can* see is a fixation upon Rad, and in my mind that shows more a deficiency in the story around him than the Spheres as a entire concept. > > This goes back to what > I said long ago that I don't find much use from the spheres. Each one > uses tenets of another (all) in some way. They are, more or less, all > complete in some way. Except we don't allow Entropy to be constructive > but have no problems letting Energy, Time, etc. be destructive. Since > none is balanced correctly then I don't find any useful. > Though the 4 Spheres may produce destructive outcomes on occassion, none of them pursue destruction as a goal in and of itself, save Entropy. And who says that we don't allow Entropy to be constructive in a temporary fashion as it suits its purpose (ultimately destructive)? You have entire nations (Hule, Denagoth, Azcans) and organizations (Thanatos' "Hattian Storm Soldiers", Alphaks Volcano) dedicated to advancing Entropy. Entropy has used creativity, and even a bit of constructiveness (?) to advance its purpose. That it uses these nations and organizations to spread destruction, disorder, etc. is no different than a Thought-oriented group building a Temple (made out of matter) or Lybrary (ditto) in order to spread reason, insight, intellect, logic, etc. Yes, all Spheres are "impure", containing the components of each (mainly because Immortals would be unplayable if "purity" were demanded, and originally Immortality was an option open to players as characters.) But they use this to pursue definate goals, to "advance their Sphere." > > No but then every other sphere has Immortals that are "corrupted, > degenerate, and psychopathic" so why is Entropy denied the reverse? > Just as their are dull Immortals of other Spheres, there are no idiot Immortals of Thought. Just as there are some Immortals who are virtually passive and inert, no Immortals of Energy should be passive and inert. The purpose, the telos of Entropy is corruption, destruction, degeneration, and the like. Not all Entropics are all these things (and Nyx may be none of them), but virtually all of them must by definition exemplify some related personality trait, simply because they cannot advance the purpose, the cause, the reason for existance of their Sphere if they are not. It would be an absurd contradiction to have an Entropic Immortal who dedicates himself to constructing a utopian society meant to last the ages. Most of the other Spheres have such an Immortal (or several of them, each pursuing their own visions of such a utopia). By your argument Entropy should have one as well, for the sole reason that all the others do. But what you are not noticing is the differences between an Immortal of Thought (for example) who pursues a utopia based on philosophical enlightenment and an Immortal of Energy (like Razud) who pursues one based on creating the perfect being of pure energy. It could be said that the purpose if Entropy is corruption, so having an uncorrupted Entropic would be exactly the same as having an idiotic Immortal of Thought. Entropics simply don't pursue utopias. They pursue Dystopias. Though the result of the efforts of other Immortals might be producing a society we would see as Dystopic and imperfect (remember, the Immortals, none of them, are omnipotent and omnicient), that is not their *goal*. It is Entropy's *goal* to do such. I think part of the problem is that you're conflating perfection with objectives. The other Immortals are not perfect in pursuit of their goals, and thus you consider them unworthy of respect for that reason. They produce bad outcomes through their behavior, so you see their activities and pursuits as discredited. Well, cheer up: the Entropics are guilty of the same failings. As I said, in pursuit of the break down of structures, they are guilty of building structures (as I already said). Ultimately, it's a game. What is important is that it works well within the framework of the game. I haven't seen any argument which would improve gameplay, though I am certainly open to one if you have any. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:30:26 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Who Serves Entropy? > Kestrel Wrote: > > The Entropic Immortals should be more "corrupted, degenerate, and > psychopathic" than the other sphere's Immortals. Just as the Entropic > Immortals use energy, time, matter, etc. But it is not their focus, their > disregard for the present state is what makes them Entropic Immortals. Their > goals are not to create a new state, but to destroy the existing. > Damn, dude, you'd think we were ICQing back and forth, or shared some kind of hive mind. 8-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 17:34:32 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spell: Missile of Slaying >Neat spell, but a bit overpowered for even 9th level! To bring it more in >line, my suggestions would be to include a Material component in the casting: >blood of the creature's race type. It makes the loophole smaller that the >players can try to wiggle through later. Also, since it instantly slays the >creature, Necromancy should be added to the spell's schools (snuffing out a >creature's lifeforce tends to be a necromancy thing, IMO). Mmm, well arrow of bone, the lower level variant, is a necromancy spell. Just make it straight necromancy, IMO. And I agree with the blood of the creatures race type. I dont think its too overpowered tho - check out the other level 9 spells in AD&D! Cheerz Rob (level 17 wildmage - just one more level... :) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 17:36:42 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - SPELLS - ELF MAGIC >The player has finished her Elf Magic school. The spells are in the >Grimoire. > >Basically it is a new School with some Enchantment and Preserver spells >and a lot of new and Elf-only magic. Excellent, luv it all. Is this net-tome online yet? Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:39:11 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Entropy Debates > > Okay, now you've done it! I'm getting out the big red book (aka > Webster's Encyclopedic Unabridged Dictionary of the English Language) > > That's not a official TSR source, as far as I know. 8-)~ Though it may be "snippy" to bring that up, what is important for game purposes isn't the dictionary definition of a "Sword" or a "Spell" or a "Priest," but the game definition. If you want to look up the game's definition of Entropy, it can be found on page 11 (is *everything* found on page 11???) of the Master DM's Rulebook, page 23 (I guess not) of the DM's Guide to Immortals (gold cover), and page 4 of WorI Book One: Codex of the Immortals. Page 23 of the DM's Guide to Immortals (gold cover) gives the fullest description. While Entropy, as a force, is amoral (not explicitly evil, but as I said earlier, like a tornado: it has no ethical component), its servants are evil, for the reasons already described (in the "Who Serves Entropy?" thread). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:43:34 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Entropy Debates > The closest definition I can find is "entropy is homogeneity, > uniformity, or lack of distinction or differentiation (the tendency of > the universe toward entropy)" > I also must say that Webster's definition is a very poor one. It borders on the tautalogical "entropy is. . .the tendency of the universe toward entropy." The p.23 DMG Immortals definition of the Sphere of Entropy is much more useful for the purpose of the game, if you don't mind me saying so. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 17:50:36 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] The Black Arts of Necromancy > ><< Opposition "school": > 'Black Magic', ie evilly-aligned Necromancy, evil Shadow Elf spells and > 'Defilement', ie trafficking with Bad Magic areas or the like. >> > >But what makes the magic evil? IMO it's the purpose the magic is used for and >not the magic in and of itself... Answer no.1 - because its cool. Forbidden magic is always a cool concept, because some PC is doubtless just itching to sell his soul to Thasmudyan to get some gen on the Black Arts. Answer no.2 (TSR logic) - Necromancy in the CBoN (complete book of necromancers) is split into three areas, white, black and grey. White necromancy involves restorative, curative and purely defensive spells, and also any spell that destroys (not controls) undead. Such as, for example, hold undead. Using white necromancy has no evil ramifications whatsoever. Somewhat more dubious is the area of grey necromancy. Spells such as animate dead are not intrinsically considered to be evil, but the spell could be perverted if the spell is used offensively. So, using animate dead to create a zombie to carry your luggage around is OK, using animate dead to animate a horde of zombies and have them butcher a village is not OK. (Fair enough, up till now basically the spell is a tool, not intrinsically evil) The final category, black necromancy, is intrinsically evil. Black necromancy is offensive necromantic magic - death spell, finger of death, and a plethora of other Nasty Spells (if you want to scour various AD&D books to find them :) The reason why black necromancy is evil is because it actually destroys the targets Immortal Soul. Such an act, in AD&D, is intrinsically evil (anyone who has watched a Hammer film and had the Van Helsing spiel on how souls can be destroyed by vampires/black magic whatever should agree here). A fireball spell merely kills its victim, like a sword, but a death spell destroys his very soul (hence the "cannot be raised or resurrected"). The CBoN recommends a power check (like Ravenloft) whenever a black necromancy spell is cast, or in some cases when a grey necromancy spell is cast. Basically that means there is a 1% chance when casting a spell of Questionable Morality that the character has attracted the attentions of some evil power... This stuff is cool! I remember seeing that Necromancer was a new character class and thinking "Oh yes - Landryn Teriak has a class deserving of him". All this makes a necromancer an excellent villain :) Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #70 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message.